Abortion Doctor George Tiller, 67, murdered at his church in Kan., 5/31/09

[KaylynnCouture]

WICHITA, Kan. — The attorney for George Tiller says the late-term abortion provider was shot and killed Sunday at his Wichita church.

Attorney Dan Monnat said Tiller, one of the nation's most visible and strident advocates for abortion rights, was shot as he served as an usher during morning services at Reformation Lutheran Church. Monnat said Tiller's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time of the shooting.

The clinic run by Tiller, 67, has repeatedly been the site of protests for about two decades.

A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985.

Capt. Brent Allred said police were looking for a gunman who fled in a 1993 light blue Ford Taurus registered in Merriam.

No other details about the shooting were immediately released.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523581,00.html

[Snick1946]

Well, now all the statements of carefully qualified condemnation can commence from the religious right.
I live next door to Kansas- our local paper has published letters to the editor from anti abortion activists, some of them disturbing. When you focus so much on one aspect of something you loose your balance. The president's speech at Notre Dame seems to have brought out all the noise and fury from these people. From the tone of some of them, they wouldn't seem to mind someone killing our leaders.
Sometimes I fear for our country.

[KaylynnCouture]

They are looking for a white male in his 50's, last seen in a powder blue Ford Taurus with the Kansas tag 225BAB. The tag is traced back to a residence in Merriam, a town near Kansas City, KS. Reports confirm that a suspect matching the description was pulled over near Gardner, Kansas Sunday afternoon.

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Abortion-provider-Dr-George-Tiller-shot-and-killed/dkIPXoPgLkOiP0Fh-CuudA.cspx

[ziggy]

The good Dr. goes to church? The Lutherans must me very liberal.

[raeann]

Suspect is in custody, and the alert re: the car has been canceled.

[mysterygirl]

Oh boy.

Snick1946, you are right. When you focus too much on one aspect of something you lose balance. The far right and the far left do this. Terrorists do this.

[KaylynnCouture]

Statement from George Tillers family:

"Today we mourn the loss of our husband, father and grandfather. Today's event is an unspeakable tragedy for all of us and for George's friends and patients. This is particularly heart wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace.

We would like to express the family's thanks for the many messages of sympathy from our friends and from all across the nation. We also want to thank the law enforcement officers who are investigating this crime.

Our loss is also a loss for the City of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality heath care despite frequent threats and violence. We ask that he be remembered as a good husband, father and grandfather and a dedicated servant on behalf of the rights of women everywhere."

http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10452120

[Kat]

I see this murder as domestic terrorism.

[KaylynnCouture]

Shooting suspect in custody: http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10451609

Also, according to the article, the FBI is now involved in this investigation, and Wichita Police will be holding a news conference at 4pm central time.

[KaylynnCouture]

Shooting suspect in custody: http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10451609

Also, according to the article, the FBI is now involved in this investigation, and Wichita Police will be holding a news conference at 4pm central time.

[Kimster]

I am glad they have the killer in custody! I do NOT understand how ANYONE can call abortion wrong because it is murder and then MURDER someone doing abortions! I've known of this clinic since the 90s. I am pro-life. HOWEVER, I would have wished the doctor to have changed his mind about abortion - NOT be KILLED! (BTW, I used to be pro-abortion and changed MY mind!)

This lunatic needs to get the death penalty just like any other premeditated murderer!

<jumping off my soap box now!>

[FishingFunnyFrog]

Vigilante justice...when the courts fail, citizens will take justice into their own hands. It's sad it ended this way, but at least we won't have precious viable babies dying by Tiller's hand anymore. Just like in Nazi Germany- Nazi lives had to be taken to end the genocide of a people group.

[ziggy]

I am glad they have the killer in custody! I do NOT understand how ANYONE can call abortion wrong because it is murder and then MURDER someone doing abortions! I've known of this clinic since the 90s. I am pro-life. HOWEVER, I would have wished the doctor to have changed his mind about abortion - NOT be KILLED! (BTW, I used to be pro-abortion and changed MY mind!)

This lunatic needs to get the death penalty just like any other premeditated murderer!

<jumping off my soap box now!>

Not that I agree completely with this stance but you asked:

Those who kill the abortion docs believe they are saving the lives of others... kill this one guy and save hundreds of lives.

I can understand it from their point of view.

Ever since scientists started claiming there was "life on Mars" whenever they discovered some bacteria, I changed my mind on abortion.

There is no way to say that life does not begin at conception if the scientific community is willing to concede that a minute bacteria is a life form.

Those who support abortion feel that those dividing cells are just tissue. Science doesn't feel that way so why should I? It is life.

I am very anguished over the right of a woman to have an abortion, but I feel that since it's been so acceptable, women have begun to value the life of a baby less and less. JMO.

By the way, there is no real medical need for late term abortion. They claim the "health of the mother" is her mental health. It might be too upsetting. PULEEZE.

[PeteyGirl]

This has nothing to do with the abortion debate. A man was murdered in cold blood. His line of work was legal. A faction of the voting population of the US feels what he does is murder while in this country the overwhelming majority does not. Religious belief does not change the FACTS or the reality of this doctors murder.

The murderer will be a martyr to only a few. To the rest of us, he will be a cold blooded killer who deserves punishment to the full extent of the law.

[LinasK]

FYI, there is another thread going on his murder in the Political Pavilion. I believe it is hypocracy for those who murdered him at church, who claim to be God-fearing/"doing God's work"!:furious:

[waltzingmatilda]

We should abide by the laws of the land as citizens of the USA! This man was not working outside of the law, he was providing safe medical care for desperate women, sadly. These overzealous, 'passionate' people should take up their gripes with members of Congress and the Supreme Court if they wish to have Roe vs. Wade reversed. "Vigilante Justice" against someone working within the laws of our land is cowardly and a cop out! This family has suffered a terrible loss.

And ya know what! Those desperate women will still seek unlawful abortions even if it is overturned. It's the same theory that gun control will not prevent criminals from continue obtaining assault rifles on the black market!

[ziggy]

This has nothing to do with the abortion debate. A man was murdered in cold blood. His line of work was legal. A faction of the voting population of the US feels what he does is murder while in this country the overwhelming majority does not. This does not change the FACTS or the reality of this doctors murder.

The murderer will be a martyr to only a few. To the rest of us, he will be a cold blooded killer who deserves punishment to the full extent of the law.

How can you say this has nothing to do with abortion when it was exactly his line of work that caused him to be a target?

I don't think we voted on abortion, I think 9 judges decided it.

I don't think the killer is justified but I do see the problem with the abortion debate in this country because it involves the so-called killing, or taking the lives of others as well.

As you are very heated about this man's life being taken, others are just as heated about the lives of the unborn, so who is justified in being heated? Both I assume, but without one we wouldn't have the other, just sayin...

[Kimster]

I am very heated about abortion...it is murder! However, I do not believe that by murdering a man, in his church, who is obeying the law of the land, is going to save any babies' lives. I just don't see how in the world it will! All it did was keep those who are pro-abortion from looking at the facts on the other side because now many will think everyone who believes in pro-life are hypocrites.

[mountaintime]

Vigilante justice...when the courts fail, citizens will take justice into their own hands. It's sad it ended this way, but at least we won't have precious viable babies dying by Tiller's hand anymore. Just like in Nazi Germany- Nazi lives had to be taken to end the genocide of a people group.

And how many adopted children do you have...???

[FishingFunnyFrog]

This has nothing to do with the abortion debate. A man was murdered in cold blood. His line of work was legal. A faction of the voting population of the US feels what he does is murder while in this country the overwhelming majority does not. Religious belief does not change the FACTS or the reality of this doctors murder.

The murderer will be a martyr to only a few. To the rest of us, he will be a cold blooded killer who deserves punishment to the full extent of the law.

PeteyGirl- I agree with you that the assassin is a cold blooded killer and should be punished to the full extent of the law. I also believe that George Tiller should have been punished to the full extent of the law. Some of the children he killed were born...and living outside of the womb when he killed them. His "clinic" also offers funerary services to women- meaning they can have pictures and funerals for the children he just murdered in cold blood.

There has been great debate in my state (Kansas) and around the world about the practice of Partial Birth Abortion and I also believe that the majority of Americans believe Partial Birth Abortion is murder. Here is a link to pictures of babies who were aborted by Partial Birth Abortion (they look just like my children when they were born...clearly not just a "lump of cells" that can be debated in other forms of abortion): http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/

[FishingFunnyFrog]

And how many adopted children do you have...???

I have one adopted...and 2 birthed.

[Kimster]

PeteyGirl- I agree with you that the assassin is a cold blooded killer and should be punished to the full extent of the law. I also believe that George Tiller should have been punished to the full extent of the law. Some of the children he killed were born...and living outside of the womb when he killed them. His "clinic" also offers funerary services to women- meaning they can have pictures and funerals for the children he just murdered in cold blood.

There has been great debate in my state (Kansas) and around the world about the practice of Partial Birth Abortion and I also believe that the majority of Americans believe Partial Birth Abortion is murder. Here is a link to pictures of babies who were aborted by Partial Birth Abortion (they look just like my children when they were born...clearly not just a "lump of cells" that can be debated in other forms of abortion): http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/

Exactly! :clap:

[LinasK]

I am very heated about abortion...it is murder! However, I do not believe that by murdering a man, in his church, who is obeying the law of the land, is going to save any babies' lives. I just don't see how in the world it will! All it did was keep those who are pro-abortion from looking at the facts on the other side because now many will think everyone who believes in pro-life are hypocrites.
And I disagree, like you I switched sides. When I was about 15- I fell for the arguements that you could be killing a future Einstein, that was before my eyes were opened. Since then I have been firmly pro-choice!

[Kimster]

And I disagree, like you I switched sides. When I was about 15- I fell for the arguements that you could be killing a future Einstein, that was before my eyes were opened. Since then I have been firmly pro-choice!

While I will never understand that switch, I do respect the fact that you at least looked at both sides before making your decision! So many people won't take a look at both sides of such an important issue.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/Koppernicus/smileys/deal.gif

We both agree that murdering the doctor was wrong!

[PeteyGirl]

How can you say this has nothing to do with abortion when it was exactly his line of work that caused him to be a target?

I don't think we voted on abortion, I think 9 judges decided it.

I don't think the killer is justified but I do see the problem with the abortion debate in this country because it involves the so-called killing, or taking the lives of others as well.

As you are very heated about this man's life being taken, others are just as heated about the lives of the unborn, so who is justified in being heated? Both I assume, but without one we wouldn't have the other, just sayin...

I am using the same line of reasoning that I use with all murders. What caused the guy in OR to murder his little boy and girl? What caused them to be a target??

There IS a common denominator. The choice of the individual who did the killing. The choice to load the gun and aim and shoot to kill.

Using your line of thinking, Ziggy, the murder of those children was about the ills of divorce and the destruction of the nuclear family. It distracts from the truly responsible one.

Does having to hand over 40% of your paycheck to child support justify murder? I'm talking about the line of reason and justification for murder here.

That's why I say the doctor's murder has nothing to do with abortion. It was not CAUSED by abortion. It was not CAUSED by nine judges deciding "for us" that late term abortion was OK.

It was caused by a murderer. Period. So, it's murder.

One murder is no different than any other. There's a common denominator in all murders, no matter the mitigating circumstances. We should not apply different lines of reasoning when it comes to murder. Our law in this country does not. At best, we are just flapping our lips to no avail. Expressing our opinion, FWIW. Getting distracted by our OWN personal beliefs that are not shared by the majority of this society.

That just keeps us all in the wash rinse repeat cycle. And we just quibble but nothing workable gets done.

[MomofBoys]

Murdering the doctor was wrong, and murder should never be advocated, regardless of the justification.

I feel kinda sick inside, though, because the news brought out some unpleasant feelings in me. I don't want to be judged, but while I come here to help advocate for victims of crimes, I can't seem to find any sadness in me. In fact, I had a sudden, brief, and conflicting moment where I wasn't even sure I wasn't a bit relieved.

Again, no one should kill another person, but this was a man who, arguably, would perform late-term abortions with questionable justification and little-to-no oversight. One of three clinics in the country that do such abortions. At that gestation and for those reasons (anxiety in the mother, etc) I believe that's murder, too. So I'm really dealing with a conflict in my own mind on how I should feel about this whole thing.

As a law-abiding citizen, I feel it's wrong. Knowing that he had family and friends and probably grandbabies of his own, I feel sad. Can I say that there's not a part of me that sees a twinge of hope that two or 20 babies might be saved? I can't.

Please don't attack me; I'm as troubled by this as some people might be by my post. I'm just being honest. I condemn murder and the bombing of abortion clinics, but I also condemn the brutal deaths of late-term fetuses. There are few means of execution more horrific than what those babies go through in their final moments.

He did not heedlessly murder viable babies. He conducted legal late term abortions within strict criteria.



That is definitely up for debate. He did a lot to garner attention the last several years, whether it was because of the alleged third-party oversight by his own employee, or the records that he performed a third trimester abortion for anxiety in the mother. That, to me, is outright murder. Not saying he deserved this, but he wasn't exactly the white knight of womens' health.

[PeteyGirl]

A man and a father and a grandfather was murdered in cold blood. Any justification of it is not helping the situation.

He did not heedlessly murder viable babies. He conducted legal late term abortions within strict criteria.

That said, what he did for his job is something I can't imagine doing, or having done, be it a late pregnancy or a little ball of cells.

What happened to him makes the faction of our society that takes political action against abortion -- a fine thing to do, that is their right -- look really, really bad. I'm sure there are many decent folks who oppose abortion that are sickened by the murder of this doctor. And who also believe his murder has NOTHING to do with abortion.

[Kimster]

MomofBoys, I was feeling the same way and analyzed myself this way:

Joey B. is the prime suspect in the murder of Jenn and Nina Wix. Chris Coleman has been arrested for murdering his wife and two boys. Now, if someone shot and killed either one of them, I wouldn't be mourning at their funerals. But yet, I still know that murder is murder and the person who chose to take the law in his/her own hands would have to be prosecuted like any other murderer, even though I might not be crying about it.

Petey put wrote it out very well, IMO.

[scandi]

Hi Momofboys, I was almost afraid to post my feelings, but my thoughts mirror yours for the most part.

IMO this man had chosen a contraversial profession and cause for action due to his beliefs. It did put him in danger physically with all the kooks out there that prey on people like this. He knew this and in the past took measures of protection from people like this with body guards, wearing a bullet proof vest, etc. It was worth it to him to keep on with his life work despite the possibility of someday being gunned down.

Nothing justifies his murder.

[DBinMA]

I used to be very much pro choice (and I still am for the most part though I despise the very concept of abortion...but I can't make that decision for anyone else). I just wish more women would take advantage of the options available to not become pregnant when you don't want to. Now obviously birth control fails and there are a whole host of other bad things (rape, incest etc) BUT I still think abortion is used far too often as a form of birth control.

[scandi]

A man and a father and a grandfather was murdered in cold blood. Any justification of it is not helping the situation.

He did not heedlessly murder viable babies. He conducted legal late term abortions within strict criteria.

That said, what he did for his job is something I can't imagine doing, or having done, be it a late pregnancy or a little ball of cells.

What happened to him makes the faction of our society that takes political action against abortion -- a fine thing to do, that is their right -- look really, really bad. I'm sure there are many decent folks who oppose abortion that are sickened by the murder of this doctor. And who also believe his murder has NOTHING to do with abortion.


Hi PeteyGirl, I do agree with your post except for the last point as to those who believe his murder had nothing to do with abortion. I think his murder had everything to do with abortion, at least until we find out differently. xox

[LinasK]

Hi PeteyGirl, I do agree with your post except for the last point as to those who believe his murder had nothing to do with abortion. I think his murder had everything to do with abortion, at least until we find out differently. xox
Nonetheless, respectfully Scandi- you know I appreciate your thoughts- whether or not Dr. Tiller performed abortions, even late- term ones, does NOT justify his murder- unarmed, in cold blood, and at a church!

[SeriouslySearching]

Abortion should not be debated here, imo. A man was murdered in cold blood and the last time I checked, it was definitely against the law and all moral codes. The motive shouldn't make any difference. Murder is murder.

If my child was molested and I hunted down then killed the man who did it...I am just as wrong as if I killed a man who had done nothing wrong his entire life. I could justify it to myself, but in the eyes of the law or society...I am no better than any other murderer only because I thought he deserved it.

[LinasK]

Abortion should not be debated here, imo. A man was murdered in cold blood and the last time I checked, it was definitely against the law and all moral codes. The motive shouldn't make any difference. Murder is murder.

If my child was molested and I hunted down then killed the man who did it...I am just as wrong as if I killed a man who had done nothing wrong his entire life. I could justify it to myself, but in the eyes of the law or society...I am no better than any other murderer only because I thought he deserved it.
Very true! Ellie Nesler killed her son's child molester in court. Just because he deserved it, didn't make her any better than him, just a vigilante murderer!

[DeeMarie]

Hi PeteyGirl, I do agree with your post except for the last point as to those who believe his murder had nothing to do with abortion. I think his murder had everything to do with abortion, at least until we find out differently. xox
I think if a clear psychological analysis of Dr. George Tillers murderer the abortion factor would be low on the list. There are a lot deeper mental issues that made Dr. George Tillers murderer pull the trigger.
Religious extremist are capable of the worst atrocities-This is shown throughout history. The murderer is deranged and the religion/abortion piece is just an excuse for the killers behavior.
The debate is this: Does a persons belief system create a murderer-or does a murderer already exists only to find a belief system to justify their actions to kill?

[oceanblueeyes]

Very true! Ellie Nesler killed her son's child molester in court. Just because he deserved it, didn't make her any better than him, just a vigilante murderer!

And it sure didn't make a better life for Nellie or her son.

Violence never is the answer and it just exacerbates the problem.

Nellie went to prison and her son had to do without his mom.

Then she winds up in prison again after getting out and the son that was molested is now in prison for stomping a man to death.

imo

[scandi]

Nonetheless, respectfully Scandi- you know I appreciate your thoughts- whether or not Dr. Tiller performed abortions, even late- term ones, does NOT justify his murder- unarmed, in cold blood, and at a church!

Thank you Linask and I do agree with you. I didn't mean I thought his murder was justified. I was speaking from the point of view of his killer, surmising that was what prompted him to kill Dr Tiller. :blowkiss:

[Kimster]

I think if a clear psychological analysis of Dr. George Tillers murderer the abortion factor would be low on the list. There are a lot deeper mental issues that made Dr. George Tillers murderer pull the trigger.
Religious extremist are capable of the worst atrocities-This is shown throughout history. The murderer is deranged and the religion/abortion piece is just an excuse for the killers behavior.
The debate is this: Does a persons belief system create a murderer-or does a murderer already exists only to find a belief system to justify their actions to kill?

Murderers throughout history have always had an excuse, religous or otherwise. I think it has everything to do with their belief system - the belief that they themselves are all that matters!!!:mad:

[adnoid]

Hey folks - if you want to debate abortion take it to the PP, not here. Thanks.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

[adnoid]

I'm not kidding.

[Cubby]

This has nothing to do with the abortion debate. A man was murdered in cold blood. His line of work was legal. A faction of the voting population of the US feels what he does is murder while in this country the overwhelming majority does not. Religious belief does not change the FACTS or the reality of this doctors murder.

The murderer will be a martyr to only a few. To the rest of us, he will be a cold blooded killer who deserves punishment to the full extent of the law.


I agree. Regardless of stance on abortion, it is no reason to murder in cold blood. Judgement of this mans actions should have been left to his creator. Not some fanatic who murdered in the house of God, claiming to do Gods work.


Despite ones thoughts on abortion, I can never feel happy about those who bomb or murder abortion clinics. IF that can be justified because abortion is murder, why not go gunning down the CEO's of those who produce alcohol or the manufacturers of tobacco because both can cause the death of a fetus? What about the pharmacutal companies who produce presciption drugs which have not yet been fully tested but are later found to cause miscarriages? Why not gun all them down too?

[Betty P]

Rumor has it, the murderer was from Operation Rescue - a guy named Scott Roeder. He had already spent time in prison for a 1996 arrest for possession of a bomb.

Looks like he may not get parole very soon for this crime.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/breaking/story/George-Tiller-Fatally-Shot-at-Wichita-Church/NoIGaXuul0C-RBrbTPnBjw.cspx

[Kimster]

Can those who posted about abortion issues repost in the PP? Here's the link:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I'd like to review those links without being in here cuz I don't wanna get spanked! :crazy:

[Kimster]

Rumor has it, the murderer was from Operation Rescue - a guy named Scott Roeder. He had already spent time in prison for a 1996 arrest for possession of a bomb.

Looks like he may not get parole very soon for this crime.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/breaking/story/George-Tiller-Fatally-Shot-at-Wichita-Church/NoIGaXuul0C-RBrbTPnBjw.cspx

I wonder if the FBI had been watching him? I think I remember 20 years ago hearing that Dr. Tiller always wore a bullet proof vest. Was he wearing one when he was killed, or did he think things were more safe lately?

[curiositycat]

Another post by Suspect Scott Roeder on the chargertiller.com (http://www.chargetiller.com/petition.html?jne19e75ff=70#jotnave19e75ff978adf5f 2f83737fafec6bd3) website:Scott Roeder
Mon September 03, 2007, 09:49:40
It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the "lawlessness" which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp "Mengele" of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement upon our nation.

I do know that Tiler was one of only 3 doctors left in the US that do late term abortions. The anti-abortion extremists have targeted all three of them heavily within the last few years.

The rest of what I think about this can be found in the PP where it belongs...:)

[SeriouslySearching]

I didn't mean to make you angry. George Tiller should not have been murdered. I hope Scott Roeder is brought to justice for his cowardly crime. But it is simply a fact that George Tiller was also a murderer: He caused the death of 5 year old Sarah Brown in 1998 and 19 year old Christin Gilbert in 2005.

Edit to add:This is relevant to George Tiller's murder because clearly Scott Roeder was loony but also seemingly angry that George Tiller was allowed to continue his practice after the murders he committed as well.Was Tiller charged and convicted of any murder? I read the story of Sarah Brown and did not see that he was ever charged with her death. As a matter of fact, I cannot find anything on him committing any crimes unless I have missed something.

[FishingFunnyFrog]

Was Tiller charged and convicted of any murder? I read the story of Sarah Brown and did not see that he was ever charged with her death. As a matter of fact, I cannot find anything on him committing any crimes unless I have missed something.

Seriously- I don't know if he was charged or if there ever were lawsuits/settlements.

ETA: This New York Times articl (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/us/27brfs-APPEALINABOR_BRF.html?_r=1)e talks about the 30 charges brought against Tiller for illegally performing 15 late-term abortions. But Tiller ended up being acquitted after his case went through the political scandal of 3 different Attorney Generals.

[SeriouslySearching]

Seriously- I don't know if he was charged or if there ever were lawsuits/settlements.

ETA: This New York Times articl (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/us/27brfs-APPEALINABOR_BRF.html?_r=1)e talks about the 30 charges brought against Tiller for illegally performing 15 late-term abortions. But Tiller ended up being acquitted after his case went through the political scandal of 3 different Attorney Generals.Then there are no charges or convictions of murder on his record which means people need to refrain from calling him a murderer or refering to the "murders he committed". The man was the victim of a crime and we have to treat him as such here.

[raeann]

This is not an issue of whether LEGAL abortions are right or wrong. It is an issue of a human being, a father, a grandfather being brutally murdered in a church full of innocent people and MANY CHILDREN. How can such evil even be presumed to be in protection of children when this person damaged and endangered dozens of children by this horrid act of violence?

[luvbeaches]

Never mind. lol

[raeann]

Please...anyone who feels that this is any form of justice or protection for children....watch the television footage of the faces of the children walking out of that church just after this happened and then tell me about respect for THEIR lives!

[adnoid]

I just moved a bunch of posts to the appropriate thread for discussion of the pros and cons of abortion and abortion policy related to this killing:

Political Pavilion thread is here


Please pay attention to the content of your posts and put them in the proper thread. It's a pain in rear and I don't want to do it again.

[ziggy]

I am using the same line of reasoning that I use with all murders. What caused the guy in OR to murder his little boy and girl? What caused them to be a target??

There IS a common denominator. The choice of the individual who did the killing. The choice to load the gun and aim and shoot to kill.

Using your line of thinking, Ziggy, the murder of those children was about the ills of divorce and the destruction of the nuclear family. It distracts from the truly responsible one.

Does having to hand over 40% of your paycheck to child support justify murder? I'm talking about the line of reason and justification for murder here.

That's why I say the doctor's murder has nothing to do with abortion. It was not CAUSED by abortion. It was not CAUSED by nine judges deciding "for us" that late term abortion was OK.

It was caused by a murderer. Period. So, it's murder.

One murder is no different than any other. There's a common denominator in all murders, no matter the mitigating circumstances. We should not apply different lines of reasoning when it comes to murder. Our law in this country does not. At best, we are just flapping our lips to no avail. Expressing our opinion, FWIW. Getting distracted by our OWN personal beliefs that are not shared by the majority of this society.

That just keeps us all in the wash rinse repeat cycle. And we just quibble but nothing workable gets done.

I agree with you in part and I don't justify this murder. However, the facts of the case as presented in court would include the state of mind and belief of the accused and that would include his views on abortion. It can't be separated in that sense.

To apply a strict reasoning as you do is fine, but there are defenses that allow for taking mitigating circumstances into consideration, hence the different charges that can be made against a person who takes another's life.

[GeorgieFayne]

I see this murder as domestic terrorism.

Completely agree, Kat.

[KaylynnCouture]

More on the shooting suspect: http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10453228

That suspect is 51-year-old Scott Roeder from Merriam, in Northeast Kansas.

The Johnson County Sheriff's Office released his name Sunday evening, but he HAS NOT been formally charged.

Authorities pulled Roeder over three hours after the shooting. They say it appears he was driving home to Johnson County. He was not speeding or breaking any laws. Police say if it wasn't for the alert to watch out for the vehicle, they would have never noticed him.

Police say after he was pulled over, he didn't ask why.

"No, he didn't want to get away." Mike Pfannenstiel of the Johnson County Sheriff's Office said, "He was completely compliant with us. Followed all our orders."

Roeder has a criminal history. In 1996, he was sentenced to more than a year in prison for felony use of explosives and multiple license and vehicle violations. News of that conviction is posted on a website called "The Militia Watchdog". The site highlights anti-government criminal activity in the nation. Roeder's case was later appealed.

Look on Operation Rescue's anti-abortion website, and you'll find a posting by Scott Roeder. It's from two years ago and reads:

"BLESS EVERYONE FOR ATTENDING AND PRAYING IN MAY TO BRING JUSTICE TO TILLER AND THE CLOSING OF HIS DEATH CAMP. SOMETIME SOON, WOULD IT BE FEASIBLE TO ORGANIZE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO ATTEND TILLERS CHURCH (INSIDE, NOT JUST OUTSIDE) TO HAVE MUCH MORE OF A PRESENCE AND POSSIBLY ASK QUESTIONS OF THE PASTOR, DEACONS, ELDERS AND MEMBERS WHILE THERE? DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD HURT ANYTHING BUT BRING MORE ATTENTION TO TILLER."

Police were at Roeder's home in Merriam on Sunday. Neighbors say they've noticed a lot of people coming and going from the house.

They describe Roeder as a quiet, religious man.

Authorities say, when they arrested Roeder, he did not have a gun on him. Wichita police will take possession of the car and search it for any weapons.

[noZme]

God wants Spiritual Fruit, not Religious Nuts.


I am reminded of the lyrics from "Nunsense".... "Holier Than Thou"
http://video.filestube.com/video,b6bdda4b66c34f0f03e9.html (http://video.filestube.com/video,b6bdda4b66c34f0f03e9.html)

[RayStar]

I say the officers really did a great job in the capture of this alleged murderer. Controlling the traffic for public safety was a winner. He is lucky he made no sudden moves. Too bad he did not respect the doctor as a human being. He really let his hatred eat him up.

[dellemma]

Yikes! I used to live near where he was living. Never saw him though.

[AmandaBrown23]

Im not sorry this guy is not with us anymore because of what he was doing. Abortion is one thing but the whole late term abortion is just disgusting. That being said I dont think someone should have taken it into their own hands to murder the guy. So they just did the exact thing to him that they were fighting to stop.

[SeriouslySearching]

Originally Posted by Kat
I see this murder as domestic terrorism. Exactly! This is no different than the Jihadists who rammed the planes into the twin towers because of their radical beliefs or Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols who bombed the Murrah Federal building in OKC because of the reasons Tim perceived as justification of the act.

This was a premeditated murder and the man's obsession with his radical beliefs was the motive. Killing in the name of God is the most heinous of all hate crimes, imo. The man is no Christian. He is a cold blooded murderer and not a martyr for his cause. If his intent was saving children, name one child who would say they wanted someone to die so they could live. The logic isn't there. It is only the depravity in the minds of those who could justify murder as a viable option. A warped sense of entitlement, rights, and beliefs. May he rot in hell along with Tim M. and the virgin seeking scum who have killed so many because of their twisted beliefs.

[FishingFunnyFrog]

Exactly! This is no different than the Jihadists who rammed the planes into the twin towers because of their radical beliefs or Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols who bombed the Murrah Federal building in OKC because of the reasons Tim perceived as justification of the act.

This was a premeditated murder and the man's obsession with his radical beliefs was the motive. Killing in the name of God is the most heinous of all hate crimes, imo. The man is no Christian. He is a cold blooded murderer and not a martyr for his cause. If his intent was saving children, name one child who would say they wanted someone to die so they could live. The logic isn't there. It is only the depravity in the minds of those who could justify murder as a viable option. A warped sense of entitlement, rights, and beliefs. May he rot in hell along with Tim M. and the virgin seeking scum who have killed so many because of their twisted beliefs.

Seriously- Just hoping you'll clarify the bold (by me). Are you referring to being pro-life as his "radical beliefs"?

[faefrost]

Vigilante justice...when the courts fail, citizens will take justice into their own hands. It's sad it ended this way, but at least we won't have precious viable babies dying by Tiller's hand anymore. Just like in Nazi Germany- Nazi lives had to be taken to end the genocide of a people group.


And welcome to the philosophy and take on religion that drives and justifies the Taliban and Al Queada.

I find what Tiller did for a living reprehensible. But it was something that needed to be examined and dealt with legislatively and judicially. Not through an act of terrorism.

[FishingFunnyFrog]

And welcome to the philosophy and take on religion that drives and justifies the Taliban and Al Queada.

I find what Tiller did for a living reprehensible. But it was something that needed to be examined and dealt with legislatively and judicially. Not through an act of terrorism.

I agree with you fae!:) And it gives the legislators and courts a great responsibility. They dropped the ball on Tiller's case by playing stupid political games in Kansas. Because they gave Tiller a nonsense trial a lunatic took matters into his own hands. People were so upset by that absurd trial...something crazy was bound to happen.

[DeeMarie]

I agree with you fae!:) And it gives the legislators and courts a great responsibility. They dropped the ball on Tiller's case by playing stupid political games in Kansas. Because they gave Tiller a nonsense trial a lunatic took matters into his own hands. People were so upset by that absurd trial...something crazy was bound to happen.

The trial did not create the murderer. A Psychopath used "religion" as the go ahead for assuming his actions were right. --He can just confess and being a killer will be forgiven, -- He did it for God because its the right thing to do because of his interpretation of the bible..etc etc.
True pro-lifers respect ALL forms of life. For anyone justifying any actions of the murderer because of not agreeing with what the Doctor did for a living is wrong. Its blaming the victim as if you would blame a woman who wore a short dress that was raped and killed. SHE should have been more careful-the doctor should have chosen a DIFFERENT profession - etc. Would opinions be different if he killed a person going into a clinic for birth control? This killers mind would condone this as well because his warped religious beliefs is that birth control is murder - ..The murder deserves no understanding or 2nd thought for what he did - because what lies underneath is a crazy belief system that is very scary and that many more than we know share. If there is no lawful action taken by the U.S. for what happened to stop it common citizens are next on the hit list.

[LinasK]

The trial did not create the murderer. A Psychopath used "religion" as the go ahead for assuming his actions were right. --He can just confess and being a killer will be forgiven, -- He did it for God because its the right thing to do because of his interpretation of the bible..etc etc.
True pro-lifers respect ALL forms of life. For anyone justifying any actions of the murderer because of not agreeing with what the Doctor did for a living is wrong. Its blaming the victim as if you would blame a woman who wore a short dress that was raped and killed. SHE should have been more careful-the doctor should have chosen a DIFFERENT profession - etc. Would opinions be different if he killed a person going into a clinic for birth control? This killers mind would condone this as well because his warped religious beliefs is that birth control is murder - ..The murder deserves no understanding or 2nd thought for what he did - because what lies underneath is a crazy belief system that is very scary and that many more than we know share. If there is no lawful action taken by the U.S. for what happened to stop it common citizens are next on the hit list.
I read something equally as crazy logic on the Daily KOS blog that made me chuckle: the woman poster stated that since periods cause eggs to die, then basically every woman who's ever had a period is a serial killer!

[Kat]

I said that I see this murder as domestic terrorism because I think that it may very well be likely revealed that this man arrested was a member of an extremist pro-life group.

The vast majority of pro-life supporters are not violent, and they do not condone violence as way of sharing and putting forth their viewpoints.

So if this man's beliefs were what compelled him to shoot a man in an act of cold blooded murder in his place of worship, in front of a congregation that also included children then yes...I see him as a domestic terrorist. Using terror and violence to try to effect changes stemming from his belief system.

Regardless of this Doctor's profession and how many view his practice. The fact remains he was shot to death in front of his family...in front of his brothers and sisters in worship...and in front of their children. That is horrifying.

I won't discuss my own beliefs here on this thread about what his practice involved, I have shared it on other threads.

I will share this, I am sorry for his family. I am sorry for those that were in that church when the gun shot was heard and they didn't know for a few minutes if they were next. Pure terror such as that can lay us asunder.

Prayers for this victim's family.

[kikid]

Im not sorry this guy is not with us anymore because of what he was doing. Abortion is one thing but the whole late term abortion is just disgusting. That being said I dont think someone should have taken it into their own hands to murder the guy. So they just did the exact thing to him that they were fighting to stop.

no they didn't do the "Exact thing" to him, he murdered the doctor.

In the United States of America, where we live, abortion is legal - even late term abortion if it endangers the life of the mother.

You can say this doctor was a murderer if that is what you think, but according to the RULE OF LAW, what he did was completely LEGAL, he was not LEGALLY a murderer. In fact, most late term abortions are done solely to save the life of the mother - so he was in fact the opposite of what you are saying he was!!

People cannot terrorize and murder others who hold different religious beliefs, in some egoic attempt to pressure/force others through FEAR to live according to THEIR beliefs !!! That is terrorism folks - and we've all seen where that type of holier than thou hate leads??

The law is the law, and it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not - Women have the legal right to control what happens to their own bodies!! According to that law, abortion is not murder.

[AmandaBrown23]

no they didn't do the "Exact thing" to him, he murdered the doctor.

In the United States of America, where we live, abortion is legal - even late term abortion if it endangers the life of the mother.

You can say this doctor was a murderer if that is what you think, but according to the RULE OF LAW, what he did was completely LEGAL, he was not LEGALLY a murderer. In fact, most late term abortions are done solely to save the life of the mother - so he was in fact the opposite of what you are saying he was!!

People cannot terrorize and murder others who hold different religious beliefs, in some egoic attempt to pressure/force others through FEAR to live according to THEIR beliefs !!! That is terrorism folks - and we've all seen where that type of holier than thou hate leads??

The law is the law, and it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not - Women have the legal right to control what happens to their own bodies!! According to that law, abortion is not murder.


Im not gonna debate abortion with anyone here. Murder is murder either way and is unacceptable. He should not have been killed and especially not in his church, that much I will agree on.

[adnoid]

Delete posts debating abortion from this thread or I will do it for you. It would be best if you deleted your own. We have a place for that discussion, it's not here and I'm getting tired of saying it.

[imamaze]

Tiller Received Death Threat Weeks Before His Murder (http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/46755542.html)

Fifty-one-year-old Scott Roeder was formally charged in Sedgwick County court today with Dr. Tiller’s murder. There is also suspicion that he could be connected with several clinic vandalisms in the Kansas City area. More...

KAKE ABC 10


Roeder charged with murder in the death of abortion provider Tiller (http://www.ktka.com/news/2009/jun/02/roeder_charged_murder_death_abortion_provider_till/)

KTKA 49 News

Prosecutors charged Scott Roeder with first-degree murder in the death of late-term abortion provider George Tiller.

Roeder was charged Tuesday and made a brief court appearance.

The 51-year-old appeared via video from the Sedgwick County jail. More...

[imamaze]

New details on Roeder's ties to militia group (http://www.ktka.com/news/2009/jun/02/new_details_emerge_militia_group_roeder_belonged/)

KTKA

When Scott Roeder lived in Topeka he was a member of a group who called themselves the Freemen, also known as the Freemen Militia.

The Freemen did not recognize official government authority, so they created their own government, which they called One Supreme Court, and lived by their own laws. More...

[imamaze]

Tiller's funeral Saturday morning in Wichita (http://www.ktka.com/news/2009/jun/02/tillers_funeral_saturday_morning_wichita/)

KTKA

The funeral service for slain abortion provider George Tiller has been scheduled for 10 a.m. Saturday at College Hill United Methodist Church in Wichita.

Tiller's lawyers announced the schedule Tuesday at the request of his family. MOre...

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with you in part and I don't justify this murder. However, the facts of the case as presented in court would include the state of mind and belief of the accused and that would include his views on abortion. It can't be separated in that sense.

To apply a strict reasoning as you do is fine, but there are defenses that allow for taking mitigating circumstances into consideration, hence the different charges that can be made against a person who takes another's life.

What are the mitigating circumstances in this case?

imo

[SeriouslySearching]

Seriously- Just hoping you'll clarify the bold (by me). Are you referring to being pro-life as his "radical beliefs"?No. This man took what is a civil issue and turned it into a vicious stalking of another person which ended in murder to promote his cause. To me, it means he went far beyond the boundaries of the law and I do consider him as having "radical beliefs" which are not reflective of most people who support the Pro-Life movement.

[SeriouslySearching]

What are the mitigating circumstances in this case?

imoYes, I would love an answer to this one, too!

[Fairy1]

I understand this fellow does not represent the vast majority of pro-life advocates. However, I cannot begin to understand how taking the life of a human being furthers the pro-life cause.

And not for nothin', but this guy has certainly never been, nor ever will be, pregnant under any circumstances. It would be interesting to find out exactly how he came to have such a fanatical position on this particular subject.

JMO....

[imamaze]

I don't think this particular article has been posted yet.

The Topeka Capital-Journal

Family Shares accused killer's history (http://www.cjonline.com/news/2009-06-01/family_shares_accused_killers_history)

As his marriage disintegrated in the early 1990s, Scott Roeder’s views on abortion grew so extreme that his then-wife wouldn’t bring up the issue.

“It scared me,” Lindsey Roeder said Monday from her Overland Park home. The picture emerging Monday of Roeder, accused in the shooting death of abortionist George Tiller on Sunday, is one of a man ardently anti-government and fervently anti-abortion.

He was a “heck of a nice guy” and a “loving son” to some, a “very scary” man to others. Family members said Roeder had struggled with mental health issues throughout his life, though he never thought so. Now, Wichita police are saying Roeder walked into the Reformation Lutheran Church shortly after 10 a.m. Sunday and shot to death Tiller, the lightning rod for Kansas’ ever-churning abortion debate. More...



I did read another article that said Operation Rescue released a statement saying Roeder wasn't a member nor had any ties to them.

[imamaze]

Tiller supporters sit in on suspect’s court appearance (http://www.kwch.com/global/story.asp?s=10467561)

The man accused of killing abortion provider Dr. George Tiller is formally charged with first degree murder and two counts of aggravated assault. Tiller was gunned down Sunday as he was serving as an usher in church. Police say the aggravated assault charges stem from threats made to other people in the church.
Cameras lined up outside the Sedgwick County Courthouse as the man accused of killing George Tiller appeared before a judge.
Scott Roeder appeared restless and asked the judge questions about his court-appointed attorney.
"What would the name of the attorney be, please?" Roeder asked. More…



DA:Former Topekan won’t face death penalty (http://=http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-02/murder_charge_filed_in_slaying_of_tiller)

WICHITA — An activist abortion opponent was charged Tuesday with first-degree murder in the death of late-term abortion provider George Tiller, and the prosecutor said the evidence in the case ruled out the death penalty.
Former Topekan Scott Roeder, 51, was shown via a video link from the Sedgwick County Jail. He fiddled with the charging documents on a podium in front of him, and said “OK” three times as Judge Ben Burgess read the charges and explained the court process.

[StealthTheory]

I cried so hard when I read the news. I cried so hard it shocked me.
I can't help but feel that every time someone called this man a murderer they made it that much less hard for someone to murder him.
Every woman in the USA, whether they feel they would need his services or want them, has lost something with his death. They lost an advocate of woman's health and choice.
Even his opponents lost something. They lost a bit of credibility in the media. This murderer also smeared them.

[mysterygirl]

Read some out takes of Luhra Tivis on her experiences in the abortion business working for Dr. Tiller. She was pro-choice and has reversed that view because of what she saw. But I warn you, I felt absolutely sick after reading one paragraph from an article.

Prayers for Dr. Tillers family.

[imamaze]

Affidavit: Roeder had $10.00 (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-03/affidavit_roeder_had_10)

Roeder was required to sign a sworn affidavit in order to get a court-appointed attorney. In the document filed Tuesday, Roeder stated he had $10 in his bank account and no other property except his 1993 Ford Taurus.

The affidavit says he made $1,100 a month working at Quicksilver Airport Delivery — his fourth job in the past six months.

His monthly bills totaled nearly $470, most of which went to pay rent...More...

CJ Online


Pastor: Church begins healing (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-03/pastor_church_begins_healing)

The church where late-term abortion provider George Tiller was killed is bringing in counselors to help members, the senior pastor said.

The Rev. Lowell Michelson of Reformation Lutheran Church said Tuesday that crisis intervention experts will help people work through their emotions. They will be available for group and individual counseling, he said...More...

CJ Online (Associated Press)



Security Concerns heightened (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-03/security_concerns_heightened)

Four layers of bulletproof glass serve as windows at the clinic where Dr. Warren Hern performs abortions, a testament to the small fortune he's spent to protect himself and his staff against threats in the two decades since someone fired five shots into the building.

But the killing of longtime friend and colleague Dr. George Tiller in Kansas, and new threats received by Hern since Sunday's shooting, remind the Boulder, Colo. doctor and abortion providers nationwide only so much can be done to discourage violent opponents...More...

Associated Press





Phsician willing to succeed Tiller (http://www.cjonline.com/news/2009-06-03/physician_willing_to_succeed_tiller)

Carhart, 67, is one of a handful of doctors in the United States who perform third-trimester abortions, and it is uncertain if a new generation of providers will take over the cause. Schools and universities don’t offer many programs to train physicians on how to perform the procedure, and Carhart said younger doctors who might be interested in stepping forward are afraid they or their families will be harmed...More...

Associated Press

[imamaze]

Bond sought for Roeder (http://www.cjonline.com/news/local/2009-06-03/bond_sought_for_roeder)

Associated Press

The 51-year-old man charged with killing Kansas abortion provider George Tiller wants a judge to set bond... More...

[imamaze]

Roeder speaks from jail (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-04/roeder_speaks_from_jail)

CJ Online (Associated Press)

WICHITA — The man charged in the slaying of late-term abortion provider George Tiller says he's "being treated as a criminal" even though he hasn't been convicted of anything.

Scott Roeder called The Associated Press on Thursday from the Sedgwick County Jail and disputed what he called "broad brush" characterizations of him as being anti-government.

"I want people to stop and think: It is not anti-government, it is anti-corrupt government," Roeder said... More...

[imamaze]

Former marshall helped provide protection for George Tiller (http://www.kansas.com/news/tiller/story/839498.html)

The Wichita Eagle

Richard Schroeder helped protect Dr. George Tiller - first as a U.S. marshal and later as a private detective. Schroeder also got to know Tiller on a personal level and thought of him as a friend...More...

[imamaze]

This is an article that was in the Washington Post {very scary stuff!!}

The Washington Post (April 9, 1996)

Freeman's Theological Agenda (http://www.rickross.com/reference/freemen/freemen3.html)

[akashana]

To slaughter a man in the house of God, in the name of God . . . how can this be right? When God said "Thou shalt not kill," he didn't add the codicil "except in the case of third trimester abortion providers." If your argument is that abortion is murder and murder is wrong . . . it's still wrong to murder the abortionist. The fact that he chose to strike in God's house only further mocks the Lord, IMHO.

[mysterygirl]

To slaughter a man in the house of God, in the name of God . . . how can this be right? When God said "Thou shalt not kill," he didn't add the codicil "except in the case of third trimester abortion providers." If your argument is that abortion is murder and murder is wrong . . . it's still wrong to murder the abortionist. The fact that he chose to strike in God's house only further mocks the Lord, IMHO.


Who on this thread said it was right? Even pro-life people condemned his murder.

[akashana]

Who on this thread said it was right? Even pro-life people condemned his murder.

My goodness! My post wasn't directed at anybody! It was my opinion, which I presume I am still able to post, as this is a thread about a third trimester abortion provider who was murdered at his church.

Did I miss something here?

[mysterygirl]

My goodness! My post wasn't directed at anybody! It was my opinion, which I presume I am still able to post, as this is a thread about a third trimester abortion provider who was murdered at his church.

Did I miss something here?

Your thread seemed to argue that his murder was wrong- like people were excusing it, when we have rehashed it over 2 threads and many posts. That's how I took it and asked that question. Of course you are entitled to your opinion just like I am entitled to ask a question. I think I just took your post wrong!

[akashana]

Your thread seemed to argue that his murder was wrong- like people were excusing it, when we have rehashed it over 2 threads and many posts. That's how I took it and asked that question. Of course you are entitled to your opinion just like I am entitled to ask a question. I think I just took your post wrong!

No problem! :)

[imamaze]

Kline letter invokes Tiller (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-04/kline_letter_invokes_tiller)

CJ Online

Thousands of Kansans opened their mailboxes Thursday to find a solicitation letter from former Attorney General Phill Kline that invokes physician George Tiller and Planned Parenthood while seeking contributions for a campaign against abortion rights.

The five-page mailing from Kline was placed into circulation by an Ohio company May 27, a spokesman for Kline said, which would have been four days before Tiller was shot and killed at a church in Wichita... More...



Feds investigate Tiller killing (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-05/feds_investigate_tiller_killing)

Associated Press

The Justice Department on Friday opened an investigation into the killing of Kansas abortion provider George Tiller to see whether the accused gunman had accomplices.

The department will investigate possible federal crimes in connection with Dr. Tiller's slaying at his church on Sunday in Wichita, Kan. State prosecutors have already ruled out seeking the death penalty against the accused gunman, but federal prosecutors did not rule out doing so as they announced their own investigation... More...

[imamaze]

http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-06/tiller_funeral_draws_about_900 (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-06/tiller_funeral_draws_about_900)

Tiller funeral draws about 900

Hundreds of people gathered Saturday to honor slain abortion provider George Tiller, and a longtime friend eulogized him as a passionate and generous man who repeatedly overcame difficult challenges.
Tiller's funeral at CollegeHillUnitedMethodistChurch also drew small groups of counter-protesters, as well as 50 motorcyclists from the American Legion Riders who honored Tiller's naval service. The service included the singing of "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" and a reading of the Prayer of St. Francis Assisi…More…
CJ Online

[Kimster]

<snipped>

WICHITA, Kan. (June 7) - The man charged with killing abortion provider Dr. George Tiller claimed Sunday that more violence is possible while the medical procedure is allowed to continue, giving his warning in calls that also focused on complaints about his treatment in jail.....

......"I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal," Roeder said.

http://news.aol.com/article/abortion-doctor-slaying-suspect/517188

[imamaze]

God, I hope they get this guy put away!!! The more I read about him and the groups he is involved with, my goodness... They are all seriously disturbed.

[imamaze]

Suspect had ties to fringe group (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-06-07/suspect_had_ties_to_fringe_group)

CJ Online

In the late 1980s, Scott Roeder held a job, loved his wife and paid his taxes — as normal a life as any other Topekan.

Then life pivoted with his entrance into a group of people who considered themselves sovereign. They believed they weren’t subject to American authority, didn’t have to obey laws enacted by, as they saw it, an unjust federal government. They were Freemen.

The group, which had a moderate following in the mid-1990s, held trials against public officials, registered notices of civilian death with the government and allegedly learned how to write bogus checks that earned them hundreds of thousands of dollars...More...

[adnoid]

What the hell is so complicated about keeping the abortion debate in the political forum? We speak English here, right?

[imamaze]

Roeder talks to CNN (http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Roeder-talks-to-CNN/j6KbUxRx1Eqpvnf6BB4yrQ.cspx)

Scott Roeder, the man accused in the shooting death of Dr. George Tiller, is continuing to talk to the media.

CNN’s Ted Rowlands interviewed him inside the Sedgwick County Jail Tuesday and said that out of all the questions he put to him, one question in particular got a reaction from Roeder...More...

KSN TV

[imamaze]

This was an interesting article...

Operation Rescue adviser helped Tiller suspect track doctor's court dates (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/256/story/69361.html)

KANSAS CITY — When Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller stood trial in March on charges he violated state law in providing late-term abortions, the man now accused of killing him made a point of attending the hearings.

And after Tiller was acquitted on charges that he had failed to properly justify late-term abortions, the suspect, Scott Roeder, told a fellow anti-abortion activist that the whole process was a "sham."...More...

Kansas City Star

[Nocgirl]

Why were my posts deleted is it because I actually am against this Dr's actions? Or should I go to the political forum.

[adnoid]

Why were my posts deleted is it because I actually am against this Dr's actions? Or should I go to the political forum.

Discussion of the crime of shooting the Dr. goes here. Discussion about abortion goes there. If the discussion is about both issues, it goes there. No posts were deleted, only moved. It has nothing to do with anyone's particular position.

[Jack]

I cried so hard when I read the news. I cried so hard it shocked me.
I can't help but feel that every time someone called this man a murderer they made it that much less hard for someone to murder him.
Every woman in the USA, whether they feel they would need his services or want them, has lost something with his death. They lost an advocate of woman's health and choice.
Even his opponents lost something. They lost a bit of credibility in the media. This murderer also smeared them.


I think we've lost much much more. We are now all under threat of being injured or even killed by these domestic terrorists just by being in the same room as someone they've chosen to target.

[CyberLaw]

Just to clarify, Doctors and clinics and all of the employees who work there, anyone who supports choice, anyone associated in any way shape for form with any clinic, married to someone, or any women of child bearing years can all be potential targets of "religious" terrorists.

Shooting, guns, fires, bombs, are the weapons of choice for terrorists.

The aim is fear...........

[txsvicki]

Anyone who goes to a business near an abortion clinic could be in potential danger. It's been years ago, but my dentist was across the way from one and people would protest outside, even hurling insults at dental patients who weren't even involved with the clinic at all. It wasn't even the same building owners of the group of buildings on that cul de sac.

[imamaze]

Investigation looks into whether Tiller shooting was part of a conspiracy (http://www.kansas.com/news/story/852076.html)

Kansas City Star

It's called the "lone wolf" model -- one person inspired by others but acting alone to commit violence.

That's the strategy some militant anti-abortion activists say Scott Roeder followed. Roeder is charged with murder in the shooting death of Wichita abortion provider George Tiller on May 31.

Federal authorities are now investigating whether Roeder was part of a conspiracy of activists whose goal is to kill doctors and shut down abortion clinics...More...



Tiller's lawyer tells of fears preceding slaying (http://www.kansas.com/news/tiller/story/851147.html)

The Wichita Eagle

As Wichita lawyer Dan Monnat prepared to hear a jury's verdict in late March**, he received notice of the latest threat against his client, abortion provider George Tiller.

The Sedgwick County Sheriff's Office had heard a rumor of a plan to throw battery acid at Tiller in the courtroom if the jury acquitted him on 19 misdemeanor counts of performing illegal late-term abortions...More...

[imamaze]

Roeder sends mailings from cell (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-07-03/roeder_sends_mailings_from_cell)

WICHITA -- A man charged with shooting a prominent Kansas physician who performed late-term abortions has been advocating through mailings from his jail cell that such killings are justifiable and communicating with individuals on the fringes of the anti-abortion movement, weeks after suggesting others might be planning similar attacks.

Scott Roeder, 51, is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the May 31 death of George Tiller — an attack that reignited the national debate over late-term abortion and gave Roeder icon status among extremists in the anti-abortion movement.

From his cell in Sedgwick County jail, Roeder has been sending anti-abortion pamphlets that laud Paul Hill, who was convicted of murdering an abortion provider in 1994, as an "American hero," and include examples of Hill's writings about how the killing of abortion providers is justifiable...More...

CJ Online

[imamaze]

Roeder pleads not guilty

Associated Press

Authorities expect Tiller slaying suspect to make plea during court appearance (http://www.cjonline.com/news/state/2009-07-28/roeder_pleads_not_guilty)

An anti-abortion activist pleaded not guilty Tuesday to opening fire on late-term abortion provider George Tiller after a witness gave chilling testimony that he saw the alleged shooter point a gun at the Kansas doctor's head before pulling the trigger.

Scott Roeder, 51, also is accused of threatening two ushers who tried to stop him at Tiller's church during the May 31 shooting that reignited passions in one of the nation's fiercest social debates.

Roeder, dressed in a jacket and tie but shackled at his ankles, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder and aggravated assault charges after witnesses described seeing him shoot Tiller and speed away from the Wichita church. Roeder's public defender entered the plea on Roeder's behalf and the Kansas City, Mo. man did not speak during the hearing...More...



Roeder to face trial in Tiller killing; pleads not guilty at arraignment (http://www.kansas.com/news/featured/story/908107.html)

The Wichita Eagle

Gary Hoepner was grabbing a doughnut at the snack table at his church with George Tiller when he saw a man walk up, put a gun to the Wichita abortion doctor's head and pull the trigger, Hoepner testified in Sedgwick County District Court this morning.

Hoepner then pointed to Scott Roeder as the man with the gun the morning of May 31.

Hoepner was testifying in Roeder's preliminary hearing on murder charges in Tiller's death...More...

[imamaze]

See complaint filed against Scott Roeder (http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2009/07/27/17/Complaint.pdf_lbuselt-14_.source.prod_affiliate.80.pdf)

[imamaze]

Letters Tiller-death suspect sent to his son (http://www.kansas.com/news/story/907672.html)

Kansas City Star

In a series of letters, the man accused of killing George Tiller attempts to convince his young son that a heathen government must be resisted.

While some of the letters Scott Roeder wrote from 1996 to 2002 begin unremarkably, with praise for his son's good grades and musical performances, they go on to reveal his evolving beliefs.

They paint a portrait of a man whose religious, political and anti-abortion views were becoming more extreme -- insisting, for example, that Jesus be called "Yahshua" and Christmas shouldn't be celebrated. The income tax is ungodly, Roeder writes, and in a letter on his son's 13th birthday, Roeder defends his failure to pay child support...More...

[DeeMarie]

Letters Tiller-death suspect sent to his son (http://www.kansas.com/news/story/907672.html)

Kansas City Star

In a series of letters, the man accused of killing George Tiller attempts to convince his young son that a heathen government must be resisted.

While some of the letters Scott Roeder wrote from 1996 to 2002 begin unremarkably, with praise for his son's good grades and musical performances, they go on to reveal his evolving beliefs.

They paint a portrait of a man whose religious, political and anti-abortion views were becoming more extreme -- insisting, for example, that Jesus be called "Yahshua" and Christmas shouldn't be celebrated. The income tax is ungodly, Roeder writes, and in a letter on his son's 13th birthday, Roeder defends his failure to pay child support...More...

So the murderer of George Tiller believes he is saving the lives of unborn children BUT will not financially support his OWN child by paying child support?!

Also could someone please explain to me why the anti-terrorist laws are not being applied to this man? Oh I get it - if the government comes down hard how could they then use abortion as a voting tool? Is not what he did an act of domestic terrorism? Shouldn't he and the group he represents be sued in court by Tillers widow - just like it was done to the KKK?

[imamaze]

A couple of articles that I don't think we had posted, they are older articles...


Should Scott Roeder Face the Death Penalty? (http://feministsforchoice.com/should-scott-roeder-face-the-death-penalty.htm)

Last week I reported that Scott Roeder, the man accused of killing Dr. George Tiller, could possibly use a “justifiable homicide” defense when he goes to trial later this month. Roeder has been charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault in state court. Under Kansas law, murder is not a capital case unless the murder is committed in the process of committing another crime, or if the victim is a law enforcement office. Roeder is not going to face the death penalty when he goes to trial, which has angered some pro-choice activists. However, the question of whether or not he should be eligible for capital punishment is worth considering anyway...More...


Scott Roeder: The Tiller Murder Suspect (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1902189,00.html)

Time Mag.

The May 31 murder of abortion doctor George Tiller, 67, has already been reconstructed in chilling detail: the threats to Good Samaritans who tried to intervene, the single shot in a Wichita, Kans., church, the wailing wife, the gunman's powder-blue getaway car decorated with a red rose — an antiabortion emblem — and a Jesus fish. But specifics about the suspected shooter, Scott Roeder, 51, are only just starting to emerge. Roeder had been following, and decrying, Tiller's work — which included performing abortions after 21 weeks — for years. Early reports on Roeder, who was taken into custody shortly after the shooting and is expected to be charged Tuesday, show a history of antiabortion, antigovernment philosophy and protest...More...

[imamaze]

These two articles are from September...


Two Wichita churces get letters from VA minister about Tiller (http://www.kansas.com/news/tiller/story/988132.html)

A Virginia anti-abortion activist has sent a scathing letter to the church of slain Wichita abortion provider George Tiller, telling pastors they "brought damnation onto yourselves" for failing to rebuke the "babykilling."

The Rev. Donald Spitz, a longtime advocate of the belief that killing abortion doctors is an act of justifiable homicide, said he also mailed a letter to College Hill United Methodist Church, which offered its larger sanctuary to Tiller's family for his funeral...More...


Tiller's work honored in D.C. (http://www.kansas.com/news/tiller/story/990656.html)

Slain Wichita abortion provider George Tiller was honored posthumously in Washington over the weekend with one of the highest honors given by the International Federation of Planned Parenthood Foundation, the group announced Monday...More...

[imamaze]

This site seems to be keeping up the trial and what's going on...


State v. Scott Roeder (http://roederwatch.blogspot.com/2009/09/todd-tiahrt-and-scott-roeder.html)

Facts and Information Regarding the Terrorism Trial of Scott Roeder.