MI - AMBER ALERT! 5 year old Nevaeh Buchanan, Body Found #6

[nursebeeme]

~continue here

forensic astrology thread

thread one

thread two

thread three

thread four

thread five



Media links:

www.wtol.com
www.myfoxtoledo.com
www.myfoxdetroit.com
www.wxyz.com
http://www.clickondetroit.com/index.html
http://www.monroenews.com/
www.toledoblade.com/
http://monroetalks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13806.2805

[Searchfortruth]

"I can't believe that my daughter touched a lot of peoples hearts" Jennifer said in the Fox interview...

[SleuthyMama]

Any locals have info to report regarding their 12:00 newscast?

[nursebeeme]

I was watching HLN and it just said that the dna results can take a few more days.....

[KaylynnCouture]

Does anyone know when the autopsy results are back? Today right?

[amysmom]

How do we bring posts from the last page of the last thread over here? TIA!

After doing 1,117 posts I feel dumb even asking! :)

[nursebeeme]

Werner Spitz — who retired in 2004 as Macomb County's medical examiner and has conducted some 60,000 autopsies — said authorities likely will have to rely on circumstantial evidence if reports are true that the girl found in a shallow, riverside grave suffered no broken bones, stab wounds or gunshots.

"You would have a lot of problems," Spitz said this morning. "You would not find evidence of drowning, you would not find bruising, you would not find strangulation."

That's because the decomposition process would have been speedy because of the heat and the possibility that water from the river could have reached the crude grave.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090608/NEWS05/90608021/Pathologist++Cause+of+death+difficult

[nursebeeme]

How do we bring posts from the last page of the last thread over here? TIA!

After doing 1,117 posts I shouldn't have to ask..Ya think? :)

copy and paste...

or...

you can click on the post number.. it will come up in a different window.. and you can copy and paste the link to the post.

(right click to get copy and paste prompts after you highlight what you want to copy and paste.. sorry if you knew that already...)

[nursebeeme]

Autopsy results on Nevaeh Buchanan were not yet completed this morning and investigators continue to follow more than 1,000 tips that they hope will lead to the person responsible for her death.
Monroe County Sheriff Tilman Crutchfield said results from the Wayne County Medical Examiner's Office have not been received. He added that analysis results of the evidence recovered at the gravesite also are pending.
http://www.monroenews.com/article/20090608/NEWS01/706089974/-1/NEWS

[KaylynnCouture]

http://www.monroenews.com/article/20090608/NEWS01/706089974/-1/NEWS

Thanks nursebeeme. I'm pretty curious as to what the test results come back as.

[Searchfortruth]

Interesting talk going on here, don't know if it holds any truth...near bottom of page. I hope this is ok that I link this, if not please let me know and I'll delete.

http://monroetalks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13806.2850

[MIMOMMY]

Channel 4 had an interview running last night of them talking to J -- they were ONLY showing her hands-I kept saying to hubby --- why are we ONLY showing her hands now? We've all seen her? We all know what she looks like? There was also someone in the background telling her it was ok to say what she needed to and let it out - like they were trying to coax her into having emotion??? It was ODDDDDDDDDD anyone else see it?

[not_my_kids]

"It's like a nightmare," her mother, Jennifer Buchanan, told the Free Press. "I can't wait to wake up."

http://www.freep.com/article/20090608/NEWS05/90608021/Pathologist++Cause+of+death+difficult

She can't wait to wake up? Her daughter is dead...how does she plan on waking up from this particular nightmare? That quote disturbs me more than some of the other weird things that have been said in this case.

[amandab]

IMO JB is doing herself more harm than good when she talks to the press.

[SleuthyMama]

Wow, Searchfortruth. That's a very interesting comment, if it's true. I can't shake the feeling that JB actively had something to do with this.

Now, if that's the case, why would she call attention to where Naveah is ultimately found by saying she saw it in a dream if she KNEW where the body was buried? Seems stoopid to call even more attention to your already under suspicion self. UNLESS, she said it knowing exactly where Naveah was buried to make it seem like some sort of maternal intuition/psychic link to her baby?

[MIMOMMY]

I also wonder if thats why she was going on her OWN searches with her own "friends"

[impatientredhead]

I also wonder if thats why she was going on her OWN searches with her own "friends"

And how did she do this with the press coverage that was going on and no one had one siting of her searching?

[MIMOMMY]

who knows impatient --- it baffels me almost as much as the news interview with her last night - everything about her is F'ed if you ask me...........JMHO of course

[Searchfortruth]

Wow, Searchfortruth. That's a very interesting comment, if it's true. I can't shake the feeling that JB actively had something to do with this.

Now, if that's the case, why would she call attention to where Naveah is ultimately found by saying she saw it in a dream if she KNEW where the body was buried? Seems stoopid to call even more attention to your already under suspicion self. UNLESS, she said it knowing exactly where Naveah was buried to make it seem like some sort of maternal intuition/psychic link to her baby?Yeah it doesn't make much sense..I am lacking so much from the news that I am starting to take to the rumour sites !

[Searchfortruth]

Also Jennifer's comments about not being able to sleep and eat...IDK, but something isn't right here. She appears to be more upset that people are pointing fingers at her than she is over the fact that her daughter is dead. Nothing sounds right and maybe I am being overly critical, but I don't get good vibes.

[MIMOMMY]

and Im sure Im going to get bashed for this --- but I think grandma has some idea what happened --------- sorry *covers her head*

[mck16]

Also Jennifer's comments about not being able to sleep and eat...IDK, but something isn't right here. She appears to be more upset that people are pointing fingers at her than she is over the fact that her daughter is dead. Nothing sounds right and maybe I am being overly critical, but I don't get good vibes.

Her statements and demeanor are really odd, but I am wondering if maybe it is a flat affect because of her drug use. And possilby still using through out all this. I am also confused as to where NB lived. Did she live with her mother and her mother also live with NB's grandmother. Or was she visiting her mother? tia

[impatientredhead]

and Im sure Im going to get bashed for this --- but I think grandma has some idea what happened --------- sorry *covers her head*

I think she has some serious suspicions.
I don't think she knows facts or is withholding information to protect anyone.

[MIMOMMY]

some of grandma's comments in the last few days after the body was discovered make me wonder --- whether she thinks she knows something - or shes started to connect pieces of the puzzle that maybe we just dont have access too? Hinky meter goes crazy any time ANY of that family is on tv

[debbie0604]

I don't know if she had anything to do with her childs murder... but allowing her 5 year old child to run free unsupervised while she sits on the sofa watching "Jon and Kate +8" is negligence IMO. The other child coming to the door to tell her that Neveah is "in the street" and then her referring to this child as a "tattletale"??? Unbelievable...

Most outrageous of all is befriending SO's, and allowing these guys to be around her daughter. She stated how can one know that someone is a SO unless they're on the list... like she didn't have access to the list so she shouldn't be held accountable for anything... but then she says that GK told her about his past. She knew about these guys but was friends with them anyway. Unbelievable!!! Exposing her daughter to them - to me - is outright total and flagrant negligence. IMO

[CHICANA]

"It's like a nightmare," her mother, Jennifer Buchanan, told the Free Press. "I can't wait to wake up."

http://www.freep.com/article/20090608/NEWS05/90608021/Pathologist++Cause+of+death+difficult

She can't wait to wake up? Her daughter is dead...how does she plan on waking up from this particular nightmare? That quote disturbs me more than some of the other weird things that have been said in this case.


If this happened to my child, I don't think I'd want to wake up.

[MIMOMMY]

She met him at a parole officer -- HELLO! Probably not citizen of the year

[elle1919]

Channel 4 had an interview running last night of them talking to J -- they were ONLY showing her hands-I kept saying to hubby --- why are we ONLY showing her hands now? We've all seen her? We all know what she looks like? There was also someone in the background telling her it was ok to say what she needed to and let it out - like they were trying to coax her into having emotion??? It was ODDDDDDDDDD anyone else see it?

Hi mommy, do you know if their is a copy of this interview in whole somewhere? I would be very interested in watching it. TIA

[Kat]

Her statements and demeanor are really odd, but I am wondering if maybe it is a flat affect because of her drug use. And possilby still using through out all this. I am also confused as to where NB lived. Did she live with her mother and her mother also live with NB's grandmother. Or was she visiting her mother? tia


http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501


...For the last 2 1/2 months, Sherry, Jennifer and Nevaeh Buchanan have lived together in the two-bedroom apartment...

[MIMOMMY]

Elle - let me look -- give me a few minutes

[elle1919]

Elle - let me look -- give me a few minutes

Will do....I have been looking since I read your first post but haven't found anything yet...take your time ;)

[mck16]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501

I have not seen an account from the GM as to where she was when all this took place. I have only seen the mother's. Is there one and if so can you point me in the right direction so I can read it? TIA

[MIMOMMY]

Can anyone locate the Clickondetroit Fastcast for yesterday night? That would have the video Im talking about.........


Still looking the entire interview the camera is focused on her finger nails - which are chipped and cracking and shes wearing some icky rings and a bracelet..........very identifiable video

[elle1919]

I don't belong to any other online blogs or forums so I was hoping someone with a little more experience could tell me how much weight to put into the monroe talks community.

[MIMOMMY]

My opinion - its easy to get very confused if you believe EVERY rumour that has come out since this happened...........

[Kat]

Huh...let's have a gander at what JB has said in this article:

http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501


...It was about 6:30 p.m. on May 24, the day before Memorial Day. Nevaeh walked out, the door shut and that was the last time Buchanan says she saw her daughter.


"I trusted her enough for her to actually go," Buchanan told the Free Press last week ...

...Buchanan didn't get up from the couch to make sure her daughter made it safely up the stairs. She sat there, she said, watching "Jon & Kate Plus 8."...

..."She looked right at me and says, 'Nevaeh is on her scooter in the road,' " Buchanan said. "She said the road, but I knew she meant the parking lot."


...Buchanan was angry at her daughter and said she looked for her flip-flops so she could go out to find her...

..."I feel like everyone has a lot of negativity about me," she said. "They don't personally know me. ... I feel like everyone is putting me in the category of ... parents who actually did harm their children. ... It's very frustrating."...


...(Nancy)Grace, she said, "is completely wrong. ... I didn't leave her playing outside. She was supposed to be playing upstairs on that day at that specific time."...

...Buchanan said she knew of Kennedy's criminal past...

..."As for Roy, I only knew him for a couple of months. Because he knew George and they had some kind of classes together, I figured Roy had the same offense against him."...

The article goes on to state:
1. LE and the FBI has interviewed JB at least 4 times, with one interview lasting five hours.

2. JB states herself that she feels like the LE and FBI that interviewed her are accusing her.

3. She says she doesn't need a lawyer because she is innocent (We've heard that one before eh?)

4. JB was also interviewed by Behavior Specialist from the FBI.


Now here is my interpretation as of today. It may change as more information comes out. LE has not named her as a suspect, they haven't named her as a POI in the investigation.

BUT ~ They haven't cleared her. That is very important. It's not always what LE says but what they don't say. JMHO that until LE says so, she's on my list.

[jackweb]

Since I started following this case I've been growing increasingly appalled at attacks on Nevaeh's mom. Are we blaming the relatives of victims, who are also victims themselves? I'd just like to say that as far as I know the mother has never been listed by LE as a person of interest, and that so far there's not one suggestion of eveidence she had anything to do with the crime. Yet I've heard her called a meth addict, crackhead, bad mother, a child molester...with seemingly no reason. And I would add, most of this name calling and attacks seem to be coming from other women (who you would think would be her biggest supporters).
I saw a rare tv interview with her today (where her face was not shown in keeping with MI's policy to victims), where she appeared a young, overweight, poor, unsophisticated, gentle person, completely out of her element. I've never seen a fat 'meth addict', and she didn't seem a criminal type of any sort. What happened to supportering victims families?
I think everyone should lighten up on her, until we know different...she's a victim too.

[Kat]

I have not seen an account from the GM as to where she was when all this took place. I have only seen the mother's. Is there one and if so can you point me in the right direction so I can read it? TIA

I haven't either. Perhaps someone else has, and we both have missed it.

I did find one statement from the GM I found interesting:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iSA7g3jKp05tJLhddj0n05exX-EwD98EPUF00

...They stood near the spot where Nevaeh disappeared. Sherry Buchanan said her daughter had been in and out of the apartment Sunday and the windows were open.

"If Nevaeh would've yelled, Jennifer would have heard her," she said...



We might want to make mental note of that.

[mck16]

I haven't either. Perhaps someone else has, and we both have missed it.

I did find one statement from the GM I found interesting:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iSA7g3jKp05tJLhddj0n05exX-EwD98EPUF00



We might want to make mental note of that.

That is a very good point. I think it should be of interest where the GM was also. And maybe that has been reported and as you said we missed it. Anyone out there heard anything from GM?

[Kat]

Since I started following this case I've been growing increasingly appalled at attacks on Nevaeh's mom. Are we blaming the relatives of victims, who are also victims themselves? I'd just like to say that as far as I know the mother has never been listed by LE as a person of interest, and that so far there's not one suggestion of eveidence she had anything to do with the crime. Yet I've heard her called a meth addict, crackhead, bad mother, a child molester...with seemingly no reason. And I would add, most of this name calling and attacks seem to be coming from other women (who you would think would be her biggest supporters).
I saw a rare tv interview with her today (where her face was not shown in keeping with MI's policy to victims), where she appeared a young, overweight, poor, unsophisticated, gentle person, completely out of her element. I've never seen a fat 'meth addict', and she didn't seem a criminal type of any sort. What happened to supportering victims families?
I think everyone should lighten up on her, until we know different...she's a victim too.

I, myself, have not seen the words that I bolded used at this forum in reference to JB.

Here at the website we have moderaters and if anyone finds a post offensive and against TOS we are encouraged to report that post for review by moderators.

For those that do not yet know how that is done, on each post to the upper right hand corner there is a triangle with an exclamation mark, click on that and a window will pop open so that your concerns about a post can be sent directly to a moderator.

[Peliman]

Hi everyone, does someone have links to these old websites? I'm curious to do host/dns lookups for date created and owner info. I thought it was a violation of this guys probation to own a computer.

This RSO is a class 4 offender from Monroe, can anyone connect him to the bio-mom? I do suspect he is a member of the bio-moms nexus.

Originally Posted by amysmom
snipped

He is RSO Vernon Mac Davis
He is a general contractor associated with VERNS HOME REPAIR there in Monore he is listed as General Contractors-Single-Family Houses
VERNS LAWN & BUILDING MAINT General Contractors.
He is the owner of the email address associated with the scam myspace & paypal account.
His email is associated with several email addresses associated with myspace pages set up for Nevaeh.
I have screen shots of all of it.

This was posted on an earlier thread (along with a photo) & I also asked about this SCAM but I never saw a reply.

He's obviously experienced with CEMENT/CONCRETE & even tho most are saying it doesn't appear to be done by a PRO it still should raise a Red Flag..IMHO

[MIMOMMY]

Ok - Im going to try and remain very calm - and say my opinion - then I wont say anything else about this particular subject ---

JB is a victim? She was a mother - yet committed a crime that took her away from her child - then when she was released from jail - she brought her 5 yr old daughter around RSO - and allowed her to apparently (and I say this because God only knows what the true story is) run around the apartment building playing in other childrens apartments and outside and whereever else - with no shoes - and had to be told twice (again who knows for sure) before she realized her daughter was missing........

NAVEAH is the victim here!!!! Your right JB did lose her daughter - but IF she would have been WITH her daughter while she played --- How much safer would she have been?

[impatientredhead]

Huh...let's have a gander at what JB has said in this article:

http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501




The article goes on to state:
1. LE and the FBI has interviewed JB at least 4 times, with one interview lasting five hours.

2. JB states herself that she feels like the LE and FBI that interviewed her are accusing her.

3. She says she doesn't need a lawyer because she is innocent (We've heard that one before eh?)

4. JB was also interviewed by Behavior Specialist from the FBI.


Now here is my interpretation as of today. It may change as more information comes out. LE has not named her as a suspect, they haven't named her as a POI in the investigation.

BUT ~ They haven't cleared her. That is very important. It's not always what LE says but what they don't say. JMHO that until LE says so, she's on my list.

The state doesn't provide an attorney until you charged and she does not have the funds to hire one. She could refuse anymore questioning and in all honesty the more she talks the deeper she seems to get herself into me.

[Kat]

I agree Impatientredhead...she needs to hush and stop defending herself. She's not doing herself any favors. Her previous behaviors have cast a shadow over her and at this point there probably isn't anything she can say or do that would be seen in a positive light.

[KR2tonenow]

The child had no dental records, I find that odd.

It is possible Nevaeh was unconscious and put face down in the mud and suffocated with the ready mix cement.

The POS left her by the river, still alive and smothered her in cement. That is why the COD release is taking so long.

Locals that live in the area know that Monroe, is a very small rural town in Mich. The SO should be caught if local.

My hinky says not local at all.

[MIMOMMY]

Elle - I cant find it - trying to call other half -- we switched to dish network and now I cant even really honestly remember what local channel was on the screen and what was playing on picture to picture.......

[faefrost]

I have not seen an account from the GM as to where she was when all this took place. I have only seen the mother's. Is there one and if so can you point me in the right direction so I can read it? TIA

The GM was at work. I forget the specifics but she was in public I can't see any way she was involved. And unlike a certain other well known GM of a murdered child, she does not seem to have any trouble believing her daughter might be involved.

The GM essentially raised this child. The mother whos behavior we keep being shocked at has essentially only been back in his childs life for a matter of weeks (and the child back in hers). The level of obvious disinterest is clear. The GM was the raising parental figure, the birth mother was at best a poor choice of babysitter.

And I feel more for teh GM then possibly anyone else in this (with the possible exception of the poor little girl). At the very least I am sure she is going to lose her home over this. No appartment complex like that will tolerate a resident bringing multiple RSO's onto the grounds. Especially not once it becomes public knowlege.

[laniefi]

Anyone know if LE is still processing the discovery scene? I'd like to get down there to take some pictures for us but do not want to - in any way - make it harder for LE.

I'm swamped @ work - so I didn't have time to read all the posts today...

[impatientredhead]

Since I started following this case I've been growing increasingly appalled at attacks on Nevaeh's mom. Are we blaming the relatives of victims, who are also victims themselves? I'd just like to say that as far as I know the mother has never been listed by LE as a person of interest, and that so far there's not one suggestion of eveidence she had anything to do with the crime. Yet I've heard her called a meth addict, crackhead, bad mother, a child molester...with seemingly no reason. And I would add, most of this name calling and attacks seem to be coming from other women (who you would think would be her biggest supporters).
I saw a rare tv interview with her today (where her face was not shown in keeping with MI's policy to victims), where she appeared a young, overweight, poor, unsophisticated, gentle person, completely out of her element. I've never seen a fat 'meth addict', and she didn't seem a criminal type of any sort. What happened to supportering victims families?
I think everyone should lighten up on her, until we know different...she's a victim too.

There is a big difference between supporting the victims families and enabling and empathizing with what some of us see as child endangerment.

She is a convicted felon- fact
For a crime committed while supporting her drug habit- fact
She did this after Neveah was born- fact
She has spent almost a year in jail during her daughters 5 years on the planet- fact
She has had drug addiction problems in the past- fact
She did not know where her daughter was so she cannot even tell the police when or where she disappeared.
And last but not least she had an intimate relationship and put a KNOWN sex offender in a father figure role with her child. And that is not even to mention the OTHER sex offender that she is friends with.

As long as we keep wrapping up behavior like this as being a victim when the foreseeable outcome occurs it will just keep going on. Accountability would go a long way in most of these situations.

[MIMOMMY]

impatient -- I wish I could just keep clicking Thanks on that last post -- EXACTLY what I was trying to say a minute ago.......

[faefrost]

The child had no dental records, I find that odd.

It is possible Nevaeh was unconscious and put face down in the mud and suffocated with the ready mix cement.

The POS left her by the river, still alive and smothered her in cement. That is why the COD release is taking so long.

Locals that live in the area know that Monroe, is a very small rural town in Mich. The SO should be caught if local.

My hinky says not local at all.

My wife works in pediatric dentistry for the state department of health. From talking with her it sounds like Neveah was pretty normal for the age group. She did have dental records and had a dental exam. That is a requirement of Headstart, and it is often contracted through public healh services. (the wife see's ALOT of these). But they do not typically do x-rays this young unless there is some obvious pathology. Standard practice is to not expose the very young children to x-rays unless needed. So if she had no visible problems with her teeth she would not have current dental x-rays. It is the x-rays that would be needed for a positive ID. Although the childs written dental records are probably part of that tentative identification that has been made.

I think she would have been just under the typical age range when they start doing x-rays, especially depending on how long ago her exam actually was. Just guessing on her age, her next dentist visit would have probably been her first set of x-rays.

[impatientredhead]

The child had no dental records, I find that odd.

It is possible Nevaeh was unconscious and put face down in the mud and suffocated with the ready mix cement.

The POS left her by the river, still alive and smothered her in cement. That is why the COD release is taking so long.

Locals that live in the area know that Monroe, is a very small rural town in Mich. The SO should be caught if local.

My hinky says not local at all.

She doesn't have xrays, which is not unusual for the age.
She has a dental record, a check up was required to enter the headstart program. Her dental record does not contain anything that the ME's office can use.

[LaLaw2000]

Fox news just spoke about Nevaeh and Haleigh.

[mck16]

The GM was at work. I forget the specifics but she was in public I can't see any way she was involved. And unlike a certain other well known GM of a murdered child, she does not seem to have any trouble believing her daughter might be involved.

The GM essentially raised this child. The egg donor whos behavior we keep being shocked at has essentially only been back in his childs life for a matter of weeks (and the child back in hers). The level of obvious disinterest is clear. The GM was the raising parental figure, the birth mother was at best a poor choice of babysitter.

And I feel more for teh GM then possibly anyone else in this (with the possible exception of the poor little girl). At the very least I am sure she is going to lose her home over this. No appartment complex like that will tolerate a resident bringing multiple RSO's onto the grounds. Especially not once it becomes public knowlege.

I started to edit my post because I was in no way implying I thought the GM was involved. I was wondering if she could corroborate any of the information JB was offering. But, if she wasn't home then I don't guess she can.

But,on the other hand I did hear her say she did not think her daughter was involved in this. That was early on. As a grandmother myself I don't in any way believe GM was involved and I certainly would not want to believe my daughter was. IMO

[MissJames]

I don't know if she had anything to do with her childs murder... but allowing her 5 year old child to run free unsupervised while she sits on the sofa watching "Jon and Kate +8" is negligence IMO. The other child coming to the door to tell her that Neveah is "in the street" and then her referring to this child as a "tattletale"??? Unbelievable...

Most outrageous of all is befriending SO's, and allowing these guys to be around her daughter. She stated how can one know that someone is a SO unless they're on the list... like she didn't have access to the list so she shouldn't be held accountable for anything... but then she says that GK told her about his past. She knew about these guys but was friends with them anyway. Unbelievable!!! Exposing her daughter to them - to me - is outright total and flagrant negligence. IMO

Grandma had custody and knew what mom was capable of.Grandma should not have left Neveah with mom.I hold her equally responsible

[LaLaw2000]

And now they are talking about Brittany Drexel.

[KR2tonenow]

Can you give us a recap thanks!

[Facts given]

WillenFan just posted the info that Nevaeh's mom will be on NG tonight? OMG. nancy is going to 'slap' her for her SO boyfriend. Good she has courage to appear on the show though.
Remember that Ducket 'fiasco'?

[Kat]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090608/METRO/906080389/1409/METRO/Testing-in-Nevaeh-case-could-take-days--family-told

Monday, June 8, 2009


Testing in Nevaeh case could take days, family told

...The family of 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan said they were told by authorities today it could take several days before a girl's body found near the River Raisin is positively identified...

...Shaun Lawson, Nevaeh's uncle, said authorities would not release information on the cause of death to the family unless the girl is confirmed to be Nevaeh...

I think that answers our questions about why the COD, and time of death have not been released as of yet. They won't release any information until a positive ID has been made. I'm concerned that the state of decomp might have been advanced and it might hinder some testing. JMHO

[Chilly Willy]

Grandma had custody and knew what mom was capable of.Grandma should not have left Neveah with mom.I hold her equally responsible

I'm not sure Grandma had a lot of choices. She, apparently, was the sole provider for the three of them, and worked for close to minimum wage at a local grocery store. What was she supposed to do, not go to work? It's easy to judge someone when we're not in their shoes.

[LaLaw2000]

I did not get the experts full names, but they were John and Chuck - talking heads. Anyway, John stated that JB is making all of this about herself and not about Nevaeh. Just short statements, but not favorable to JB.

Chuck stated that the mother's DNA if found on the body would be expected, but that foreign DNA would not. (duh!) He seems to think that the DNA results will tell the tale. (again, duh!)

In other words, a big fat nothing came out of this interview.

Dawn Drexel spoke and still thinks that the girls she went to Myrtle Beach do know something.

On Haleigh's case, the 'roundtable' discussion was mentioned. Also seemed to think that Misty knows more than she is saying. (of course she does)

At least it got Nevaeh, Haleigh's, and Brittany's name in the news.

[Kat]

WillenFan just posted the info that Nevaeh's mom will be on NG tonight? OMG. nancy is going to 'slap' her for her SO boyfriend. Good she has courage to appear on the show though.
Remember that Ducket 'fiasco'?

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/

...The mom of Nevaeh Buchanan in a primetime live exclusive after the 5-year-old girl's body is found encased in cement by the banks of a Michigan river. Nancy Grace has the latest breaking developments...


:doh: Oh my. Hasn't JB seen or heard about the coverage so far about this case? Egads, this might get very nasty and ugly.

Of course I will be watching :D

[MIMOMMY]

Grandma DEFINETLY had a choice - Tell mom to figure it out on her own? This isnt a flop house? You did the crime - now fix it -- Tough love? I love my children with my entire soul - but, you end up in jail or worse - YOU fix the mistake YOU made - NOT me! My grandchildren will never be without- but if my children as adults chose to make crap decisions......

Also --- as far as supporting the three of them - I do believe that those MAY be income based housing - and she could have received assistance for daycare thru the state - most definetly if she was under kinship care (we did this for our neice)

[Chilly Willy]

Grandma DEFINETLY had a choice - Tell mom to figure it out on her own? This isnt a flop house? You did the crime - now fix it -- Tough love? I love my children with my entire soul - but, you end up in jail or worse - YOU fix the mistake YOU made - NOT me!

Also --- as far as supporting the three of them - I do believe that those MAY be income based housing - and she could have received assistance for daycare thru the state - most definetly if she was under kinship care (we did this for our neice)

Tough love for what? JB did the crime and did her time, what was she supposed to fix? Should Grandma have thrown JB out into the streets? Why? What do we know of that JB had done once she was released from jail to deserve that? Would being tossed out on her can help JB, who is after all, Grandma's daughter, to stay out of trouble? I think Grandma was between a rock and a hard place and, considering her lack of options and education, was doing the best she knew how.

[nursebeeme]

woooooooa... JB is going on NANCY tonight??? What the *****!

[dairydog]

Since I started following this case I've been growing increasingly appalled at attacks on Nevaeh's mom. Are we blaming the relatives of victims, who are also victims themselves? I'd just like to say that as far as I know the mother has never been listed by LE as a person of interest, and that so far there's not one suggestion of eveidence she had anything to do with the crime. Yet I've heard her called a meth addict, crackhead, bad mother, a child molester...with seemingly no reason. And I would add, most of this name calling and attacks seem to be coming from other women (who you would think would be her biggest supporters).
I saw a rare tv interview with her today (where her face was not shown in keeping with MI's policy to victims), where she appeared a young, overweight, poor, unsophisticated, gentle person, completely out of her element. I've never seen a fat 'meth addict', and she didn't seem a criminal type of any sort. What happened to supportering victims families?
I think everyone should lighten up on her, until we know different...she's a victim too.

Perhaps Jackweb should read about this mother's (JB) background. She recently served 11 months for a home invasion. That's an interesting definition of being a 'gentle person'. She also did not have custody of Nevaeh!

[MissJames]

Since I started following this case I've been growing increasingly appalled at attacks on Nevaeh's mom. Are we blaming the relatives of victims, who are also victims themselves? I'd just like to say that as far as I know the mother has never been listed by LE as a person of interest, and that so far there's not one suggestion of eveidence she had anything to do with the crime. Yet I've heard her called a meth addict, crackhead, bad mother, a child molester...with seemingly no reason. And I would add, most of this name calling and attacks seem to be coming from other women (who you would think would be her biggest supporters).
I saw a rare tv interview with her today (where her face was not shown in keeping with MI's policy to victims), where she appeared a young, overweight, poor, unsophisticated, gentle person, completely out of her element. I've never seen a fat 'meth addict', and she didn't seem a criminal type of any sort. What happened to supportering victims families?
I think everyone should lighten up on her, until we know different...she's a victim too.
I would compare this to a parent who does not use a car seat or safety belt for their child.They are in an accident for which the parent may or may not be responsible for.The child ends up thrown from the car and is critically injured.After suffering hours of poking and prodding in the hospital the child dies.Investigators determine that if the child had been buckled in she most likely would not have recieved ANY injuries.
Is the parent the victim? The parent was negligent and that led to the childs death.
JB knowingly exposed her child to dangerous people.She did not watch out for a 5 year old child....just let her go.She just let her go ..........

[MIMOMMY]

I guess Chilly - I look at it like this - she obviously had issues that caused her to break into a building - and a child to raise - she chose whatever the issue was over her child. (Please understand I am the product of a mother with very serious "issues" who always chose the "issue" over being a mother) Your right she did go to jail -- and when she got out - she decided to bring RSO around the child that grandma had been raising while she "paid for her crime" how many strikes do you get as a mother - you had an addiction - you committed a crime - I raised your child for you while you did that - and now you bring other criminals around that you met at a parole office and that should just be ok too?? I would think at that point Naveah would have come before the daughter - as Naveah is a child and J is an adult who SHOULD know the difference between right and wrong.........

[KR2tonenow]

Apparently the pointing fingers has JB nervous. It should be a great show!

[impatientredhead]

Tough love for what? JB did the crime and did her time, what was she supposed to fix? Should Grandma have thrown JB out into the streets? Why? What do we know of that JB had done once she was released from jail to deserve that? Would being tossed out on her can help JB, who is after all, Grandma's daughter, to stay out of trouble? I think Grandma was between a rock and a hard place and, considering her lack of options and education, was doing the best she knew how.

I am guessing that Grandma didn't chuck her out the door for her choice of friends because it would have broken Neveah's heart to have her mother taken away from her again. In hindsight I am sure Grandma would have taken the brokenheart but she seems like she was doing the best she could and was raising a healthy and apparantly happy grandchild. She made a bad call, she doesn't have a list of bad calls that go on and on and on. I hope anyone in a similar situation sees this case and finds clarity on what they need to do.

[scandi]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090608/METRO/906080389/1409/METRO/Testing-in-Nevaeh-case-could-take-days--family-told

Monday, June 8, 2009


Testing in Nevaeh case could take days, family told

I think that answers our questions about why the COD, and time of death have not been released as of yet. They won't release any information until a positive ID has been made. I'm concerned that the state of decomp might have been advanced and it might hinder some testing. JMHO

Hi Kat, I know the ME can always get DNA from the thigh bone or sternum It must be they haven't received a good sample of her DNA from before death. Can't they use the mother's DNA for a match?

With that long brown hair you would think there would be some in a hairbrush, right?

[impatientredhead]

Hi Kat, I know the ME can always get DNA from the thigh bone or sternum It must be they haven't received a good sample of her DNA from before death. Can't they use the mother's DNA for a match?

With that long brown hair you would think there would be some in a hairbrush, right?

I think they have everything they need, they are just waiting on the formal results a. for the prosecution and b. because they do not want to show their hand before they have to the people being questioned.

[Chilly Willy]

I guess Chilly - I look at it like this - she obviously had issues that caused her to break into a building - and a child to raise - she chose whatever the issue was over her child. (Please understand I am the product of a mother with very serious "issues" who always chose the "issue" over being a mother) Your right she did go to jail -- and when she got out - she decided to bring RSO around the child that grandma had been raising while she "paid for her crime" how many strikes do you get as a mother - you had an addiction - you committed a crime - I raised your child for you while you did that - and now you bring other criminals around that you met at a parole office and that should just be ok too?? I would think at that point Naveah would have come before the daughter - as Naveah is a child and J is an adult who SHOULD know the difference between right and wrong.........


I can't disagree with that. Grandma and Uncle both knew that JB was exposing Nevaeh to SO's and they'd had words with JB over it, but apparently the courts knew too and they didn't step in. If my child got mixed up in drugs and committed crimes to support their habit but then did their time, I would support them to the best of my ability when they got out because they'd deserve their shot at a second chance. There's no indication that NB has committed any crimes since she was released.

This is not a typical middle class family. They are all undereducated, not overly intelligent, and they've been raised in a different lifestyle than what most of us are familiar with. If Grandma made some poor choices, I can't fault her for it. She's suffering greatly for her bad choices, we don't need to shove her mistakes down her throat.

[Kat]

Hi Kat, I know the ME can always get DNA from the thigh bone or sternum It must be they haven't received a good sample of her DNA from before death. Can't they use the mother's DNA for a match?

With that long brown hair you would think there would be some in a hairbrush, right?

I'm sorry I should have clarified my thoughts about the possibility of testing being compromised due to advanced decomposition. I meant to say testing for foreign DNA on/in Nevaeh.

Yes of course you are correct in that they have enough material available to them to extract and compare to bio mom and bio dad.

[MissJames]

I'm not sure Grandma had a lot of choices. She, apparently, was the sole provider for the three of them, and worked for close to minimum wage at a local grocery store. What was she supposed to do, not go to work? It's easy to judge someone when we're not in their shoes.
You are assuming grandma had no other choices.She obviously had another choice when mom was in jail.There are parents who lose their kids because they lock them in a car or leave them home alone while at work .They also claim they have no other choices.
It's a tough world for single parents,including single grandparents ,but to knowingly leave the child you are responsible for with someone with a history like JB makes you negligent IMO.
I will admit my judgement of grandma is colored by my experiences with families like this as a foster parent. Usually the child ends up in foster care,not dead.

[MIMOMMY]

I agree we shouldnt shove her bad choices down her throat - my beginning issue was with JB. And I will tell you that a good "chunk" of the residence living in that area (note I did not say ALL) are very much the same type of people - who have lived the same life for generations...... *we live about 45 minutes from there* So I guess you could even call JB a "product of her enviroment" Which by the way makes me question where JB's father is?

[mgardner]

WillenFan just posted the info that Nevaeh's mom will be on NG tonight? OMG. nancy is going to 'slap' her for her SO boyfriend. Good she has courage to appear on the show though.
Remember that Ducket 'fiasco'?

Yes, and I hope Nancy does too! No reason to bash the bio-mom - just ask the right questions in a calm voice. I swear if I hear her screaming and not letting her finish a sentence, I'll scream.

Cuz we all know, if JB is terrorized, all she'll do is hang up or walk away (not knowing how she's going to appear).

Best,

Mel

[MIMOMMY]

MissJames -- I agree 199% - Like I said I was a product of a "abusive" mother - and then was a teen single mother myself - and then even later - a foster mother --- So Ive lived the childhood - Ive lived the starting out and the need to pick the "right" path as a young single troubled mom- and Ive been the mom that tries to love the child who's mother didnt pick the right path -----

[SuziQ]

Since I started following this case I've been growing increasingly appalled at attacks on Nevaeh's mom. Are we blaming the relatives of victims, who are also victims themselves? I'd just like to say that as far as I know the mother has never been listed by LE as a person of interest, and that so far there's not one suggestion of eveidence she had anything to do with the crime. Yet I've heard her called a meth addict, crackhead, bad mother, a child molester...with seemingly no reason. And I would add, most of this name calling and attacks seem to be coming from other women (who you would think would be her biggest supporters).
I saw a rare tv interview with her today (where her face was not shown in keeping with MI's policy to victims), where she appeared a young, overweight, poor, unsophisticated, gentle person, completely out of her element. I've never seen a fat 'meth addict', and she didn't seem a criminal type of any sort. What happened to supportering victims families?
I think everyone should lighten up on her, until we know different...she's a victim too.

Regarding what I bolded. You are incorrect. LE has refused to comment on whether Nevaeh's mother is a person of interest or not. In fact, LE brings her in for questioning about every other day or so. And an FBI profiler questioned her for five hours, IIRC. Obviously LE does consider her a person of interest. We aren't going anywhere LE isn't at this point. She has not been cleared by LE.

Family members are often the perp. Mother's kill their children almost daily. It's a bit hard to give them complete support when you don't know if they are the perp or in some way responsible, even indirectly. IMO, a victim stops being the victim when the moment they commit the crime.

The only true victim I see at this point is Nevaeh. She's the only one I support and stand behind at the moment.

[Chilly Willy]

Yes, and I hope Nancy does too! No reason to bash the bio-mom - just ask the right questions in a calm voice. I swear if I hear her screaming and not letting her finish a sentence, I'll scream.

Cuz we all know, if JB is terrorized, all she'll do is hang up or walk away (not knowing how she's going to appear).

Best,

Mel

LOL @ 'Nancy Grace' and 'calm voice' in the same sentence.

[Kat]

LOL @ 'Nancy Grace' and 'calm voice' in the same sentence.

:floorlaugh: no doubt...no doubt

[mgardner]

:floorlaugh: no doubt...no doubt

Oh I can hear her now:

woah, woah, woah - waiiiiiittttt a minute here.......

Of course said person is always mid=sentence.

That's my Nancy pet peeve for the day ;)

Mel

[elle1919]

I am like huh, hasn't JB been keeping up with Nancy? I can believe maybe she hasn't, being that her child is missing and the last thing she might think of is following the case on Nancy Grace....however....I hope someone informs her of Nancy's style and opinions on the whole dating the SO thing. I also hope Nancy can keep her calm long enough to get some useful info out of JB. The time to point fingers and be opinionated about the kind of mother this woman is can come AFTER an arrest is made for the PI* responsible. IMO

[impatientredhead]

Oh I can hear her now:

woah, woah, woah - waiiiiiittttt a minute here.......

Of course said person is always mid=sentence.

That's my Nancy pet peeve for the day ;)

Mel

I think we have a really good shot at JB changing her mind before this interview happens. She really needs to stop, she is not going to turn public opinion at this point (and she should be to grief stricken to care what the public's opinion of her is), it is too late to bring Neveah home, and she has not been charged with anything thus far. There is nothing to gain from talking, nothing.

[jackweb]

Perhaps Jackweb should read about this mother's (JB) background. She recently served 11 months for a home invasion. That's an interesting definition of being a 'gentle person'. She also did not have custody of Nevaeh!
Dairydog...I though I read up on the case pretty well, current news media, tv, internet...and thought, as I said, the mother hasn't given many interviews etc....Where can I find this info: re the mother criminal reocrd for 'home invasion' and other, and that she was NOT the custodial parent? I did not see this in my sources..daily papers, tv, internet.
P.S. If she was not, who IS the custodial parent, and how come media doesn't mention the custodian more?

[amysmom]

copy and paste...

or...

you can click on the post number.. it will come up in a different window.. and you can copy and paste the link to the post.

(right click to get copy and paste prompts after you highlight what you want to copy and paste.. sorry if you knew that already...)


TY! very much Bee :)

[jackweb]

Regarding what I bolded. You are incorrect. LE has refused to comment on whether Nevaeh's mother is a person of interest or not. In fact, LE brings her in for questioning about every other day or so. And an FBI profiler questioned her for five hours, IIRC. Obviously LE does consider her a person of interest. We aren't going anywhere LE isn't at this point. She has not been cleared by LE.

Family members are often the perp. Mother's kill their children almost daily. It's a bit hard to give them complete support when you don't know if they are the perp or in some way responsible, even indirectly. IMO, a victim stops being the victim when the moment they commit the crime.

The only true victim I see at this point is Nevaeh. She's the only one I support and stand behind at the moment.

SuziQ....Of course LE has to consider relatives, as we all know they 'are' often the perps, but they are just as often 'not'. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case in Utah..where the family was suspected but innocent. I don't think 'mothers kill their children every day' the media makes it look like this for ratings and profit. I think if you look at the official crime statistics you'll see women are very very rarely murderers, and only a tiny minority of mothers kill their children...like maybe 1 in 100,000, it's really rare.

[jnTexas]

Unfortunately I believe JB will not be charged with anything in this case unless she is directly invovled.
Just as all the other POS mothers who allow their children to be abused by a BF/Husband, and neglect their children.

Until people in this country wake up and quit seeing these mothers as victims just because they didn't physically kill their child we will see more and more of these cases.

This woman knowlingly let her 5yr old child be around a child sex offender.
She let her go out into the complex by herself barefoot. She's 5 for god sake!
Please tell me others see this as child neglect. Which is against the law. This woman should not get a free pass just because the child died. She is an adult she knows right from wrong. She was in custody of this child at the time of disappearance. She is responsible for the well being of this child. If this were not her child and she was babysitting you can bet she would be charged with child neglect and the parents would be all over the news wanting this woman locked up.

This next statement will probably tick alot of people off, but I'm saying it anyhow....
Everyone in this family let this child down. They did not protect her. They knew this guy was a RSO, and did nothing including the uncle. He knew the danger of Nevaeh being around this guy. Yet he let his emotions for his mother and sister get in the way of protecting her.

IMO I do not believe this was a happy child she has the eyes and the forced smile of a neglected, and possibly abused child. I do believe when they release autopsy we will see that Nevaeh was sexually abused in the past. I just get this feeling seeing her pics.

I do feel for this family as they have suffered the loss no family should suffer. That being said this child deserves justice, and that includes the woman who wasn't watching her.

Full and complete justice for Nevaeh and all the children like her.

I do not mean to offend anyone this is my opinion.

[DotsEyes]

The bottom line: if mommy had been watching her Nevaeh would be alive.

Staying inside the apartment with the windows open doesn't cut it. She obviously had no idea Neveah was even out in the parking lot on her scooter, so the open window concept of supervision did not work.

Even a mother rat maintains constant supervision of their babies when out of the nest. But then mother rats don't have cable.

[Kat]

Dairydog...I though I read up on the case pretty well, current news media, tv, internet...and thought, as I said, the mother hasn't given many interviews etc....Where can I find this info: re the mother criminal reocrd for 'home invasion' and other, and that she was NOT the custodial parent? I did not see this in my sources..daily papers, tv, internet.
P.S. If she was not, who IS the custodial parent, and how come media doesn't mention the custodian more?

2 1/2 -hour interview with J. Buchanan:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501
June 7, 2009


Arrest record:
http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=305099
Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 2:03 p.m.
"Jennifer Buchanan has a conviction of First Degree Home Invasion on the Michigan Department of Corrections website dating back to 2006."

Michigan Department of Corrections entry:
http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2profile.asp?mdocNumber=627126
J. O. Buchanan
Date of Offense: 08/17/2006
Date of Sentence: 12/07/2006
Conviction Type: Plea Discharge Date: 01/26/2009


Reference to custody of Nevaeh:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090529/NEWS06/905290488/Rapist+jailed+in+connection+with+missing+Nevaeh
May 29, 2009
Sherry Buchanan, Jennifer's mother, took custody of Nevaeh while Jennifer spent 11 months in jail.


Would someone be so kind as to start a Facts only thread and also a Q&A thread? Many thanks to whoever is up to the challange, I have to get off here soon :)

[impatientredhead]

SuziQ....Of course LE has to consider relatives, as we all know they 'are' often the perps, but they are just as often 'not'. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case in Utah..where the family was suspected but innocent. I don't think 'mothers kill their children every day' the media makes it look like this for ratings and profit. I think if you look at the official crime statistics you'll see women are very very rarely murderers, and only a tiny minority of mothers kill their children...like maybe 1 in 100,000, it's really rare.

73.2 million kids in the US at last census, 1 in 100= 732 or approximately 2 per day.

If you look at the statistics and see who the killer of most of the murdered/assaulted children you will find that the Elizabeth Smart case is the very very very rare case, not the reverse.

[kiki the parrot]

There are millions of single, uneducated, disadvantaged mothers w all manner of histories from every background imaginable who do their job and take their role as a parent seriously everyday. I must agree w red who pointed out that accountability is crucial and that to go on denying the very real link between quality of parenting and the proportionate level of risks this poses to children is simply to ensure these patterns continue. It isn't about rubbing someone's nose in their mistakes, it is about accepting the responsibility for any child--and raising up a standard, becoming a voice for defenseless children against child neglect and endangerment thus learning from these tragedies in order hopefully to prevent future crimes against children.

As is the case w eg's given (children left in cars, no car seats etc), there is more than one level of culpability. And it is ALL about choices. Even GM in this case made the CHOICE, in light of her daughter's own parenting unfitness, to accept guardianship thus assuming responsibility to protect and care for Nevaeh herself. No one forced GM to assume this role, and if she didn't feel she could do so if it meant denying her daughter housing; or do so w/out resorting to Nevaeh's mother as a caregiver; or do so while working it was her option to decline. But whomever assumed that role and assumed custody of Nevaeh was the sole person who had both a legal duty and moral obligation to put Nevaeh FIRST and keep Nevaeh SAFE. It isn't about judgmentalism or tossing anyone on their can, it's about protecting those who can not protect themselves, not jeopardizing the only chance at life or safety Nevaeh had; not exposing a child to known predators nor leaving her w any who themselves choose to associate w them. For all we know there could well have been a longstanding pattern of enablement by GM-- and had GM taken a stand or set firmer boundaries and healthier limits w JB, perhaps this little girl might've lived to one day know the joy of being truly valued by her mother; as Nevaeh's mother may have learned parenting is a PRIVILEGE and that parents are STEWARDS who are not given but ENTRUSTED w children. And that those who neglect to take their responsibility seriously or to sacrifice and prioritize accordingly may one day find themselves without those responsibilities--or that unequalled privilege. Life is full of choices, yet the hard truth is the fewer consequences we're given, the fewer choices we will be left w in the end.

:parrot:

[Prof]

I had seen this interview quoted many times in different print sources, but today I found the original radio show with the call in from JB, if anyone is interested in hearing it. Sorry, If I am way behind in this forum.
JB Radio Interview (http://dd.wcsx.com/?p=3208)

[SuziQ]

SuziQ....Of course LE has to consider relatives, as we all know they 'are' often the perps, but they are just as often 'not'. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case in Utah..where the family was suspected but innocent. I don't think 'mothers kill their children every day' the media makes it look like this for ratings and profit. I think if you look at the official crime statistics you'll see women are very very rarely murderers, and only a tiny minority of mothers kill their children...like maybe 1 in 100,000, it's really rare.

Doesn't change the fact that in cases like this one, parents are the most likely responsible. That was my point. Thank god that's rare when you compare this to the general population totals. In cases like this one, the kids that are missing and murdered, the parents are the most likely responsible. In fact most missing kid cases like this one were never abductions or missing but rather murders to begin with. They are initially classified as abducted or missing because their parents murdered them and hid the bodies. Below are the stats from the DOJ for children under five. I can't locate the totals at the moment for children over five, but the until the age of eleven, the numbers aren't much better.

http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm#kidsgender
Note: Parents includes stepparents. Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 --

31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers

[scandi]

Snipped

This next statement will probably tick alot of people off, but I'm saying it anyhow....
Everyone in this family let this child down. They did not protect her. They knew this guy was a RSO, and did nothing including the uncle. He knew the danger of Nevaeh being around this guy. Yet he let his emotions for his mother and sister get in the way of protecting her.

IMO I do not believe this was a happy child she has the eyes and the forced smile of a neglected, and possibly abused child. I do believe when they release autopsy we will see that Nevaeh was sexually abused in the past. I just get this feeling seeing her pics.

I do feel for this family as they have suffered the loss no family should suffer. That being said this child deserves justice, and that includes the woman who wasn't watching her.

Full and complete justice for Nevaeh and all the children like her.

I do not mean to offend anyone this is my opinion.

Hi jnTexas, Don't forget the State let her down too. We read Child Services said they wanted her removed from the home, and I have read nothing that was done in that regard.

[jnTexas]

I agree we shouldnt shove her bad choices down her throat - my beginning issue was with JB. And I will tell you that a good "chunk" of the residence living in that area (note I did not say ALL) are very much the same type of people - who have lived the same life for generations...... *we live about 45 minutes from there* So I guess you could even call JB a "product of her enviroment" Which by the way makes me question where JB's father is?

Being a product of her enviroment in no way makes it ok to neglect her child.

[Scarlett]

Anyone know if LE is still processing the discovery scene? I'd like to get down there to take some pictures for us but do not want to - in any way - make it harder for LE.

I'm swamped @ work - so I didn't have time to read all the posts today...

They are done. I have been thinking about doing the same thing, but haven't been able to bring myself to do it.

[jnTexas]

Hi jnTexas, Don't forget the State let her down too. We read Child Services said they wanted her removed from the home, and I have read nothing that was done in that regard.

Thx Scandi! I forgot about the state issue also.

one other thing I forgot the BioDad everyone keeps stating how bad they feel for him. Just where the he!! was he? This was his child. He most likey had visitation. Seeing as he was ordered to pay child support. Even though he did not.
He also let her down.

No one had this child's best interest at heart.

[jnTexas]

Doesn't change the fact that in cases like this one, parents are the most likely responsible. That was my point. Thank god that's rare when you compare this to the general population totals. In cases like this one, the kids that are missing and murdered, the parents are the most likely responsible. In fact most missing kid cases like this one were never abductions or missing but rather murders to begin with. They are initially classified as abducted or missing because their parents murdered them and hid the bodies. Below are the stats from the DOJ for children under five. I can't locate the totals at the moment for children over five, but the until the age of eleven, the numbers aren't much better.

http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm#kidsgender
Note: Parents includes stepparents. Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 --

31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers



Now that is depressing!

[scandi]

They are done. I have been thinking about doing the same thing, but haven't been able to bring myself to do it.

Thx Scandi! I forgot about the state issue also.

one other thing I forgot the BioDad everyone keeps stating how bad they feel for him. Just where the he!! was he? This was his child. He most likey had visitation. Seeing as he was ordered to pay child support. Even though he did not.
He also let her down.

No one had this child's best interest at heart.

Sadly jnTexas, that also makes me think of all the thousands of children in our country who are in the same situation.


I just heard Jane Valdez in a promo for tonight's show say even though they have two SO's in custody who knew the mother, LE believes the monster who did this to Navaeh is still out there. It was a real powerful statement with her delivery!

She also said this has the community held in turmoil, not knowing who this person is.

[eyes4crime]

Hi everyone!! I've been reading all the posts and can't say enough about all the links, information, and the batting around of ideas. Glad to be with all of you.

[not_my_kids]

I believe that the grandmother was at work when Nevaeh went missing. I remember reading in an article that grandma was at work, so jennifer was "babysitting"...for her own kid. It was in an article and I am looking for link, I think it's in the general discussion threads.

ETA: this was supposed to be a quote, but the quote didn't show. Oh well, for those that were interested in where GM was.

[Searchfortruth]

The Elizabeth Smart case contained a TOTALLY differant set of circumstances. They did not have Registered SO's as best friends, hanging out with their daughter. Jennifer knew this guy was a SO and claimed he was a "father figure" to Nevaeh. Jennifer knew he was not supposed to have any contact with children, yet she let him do so. Jennifer had Nevaeh, at four months old, in the car while she went in to rob a home for drug money. I am sorry, I can not see this woman as a "victim".

[KR2tonenow]

No one at all is condoning JB's parenting, choices, and criminal background. There is an issue of Child Neglect, and with all said and done she will be held accountable. NG will not let her off the hook. The FBI is probably fully aware of the "letters" to George and this small community has to find the actual killer. Is there any kind of evidence that Nevaeh could have been sold??

[Spyglass]

In JB's Corrections Department bio, it lists: "Tattoo- Lower Right Ankle - Cross with banner above states "Amyah" and banner below states 'Mom.' "

Is Amyah a person's name? Sorry if this was previously addressed and I missed it.

[Patty G]

In JB's Corrections Department bio, it lists: "Tattoo- Lower Right Ankle - Cross with banner above states "Amyah" and banner below states 'Mom.' "

Is Amyah a person's name? Sorry if this was previously addressed and I missed it.

Isn't "Amyah" Nevaeh's middle name?

[laniefi]

They are done. I have been thinking about doing the same thing, but haven't been able to bring myself to do it.

I certainly understand - although it will very very emotional I feel like if people not from this area saw it - it would help them figure out what really happened to this poor little girl.

[maima]

In JB's Corrections Department bio, it lists: "Tattoo- Lower Right Ankle - Cross with banner above states "Amyah" and banner below states 'Mom.' "

Is Amyah a person's name? Sorry if this was previously addressed and I missed it.

**coming out from lurking**

No problem, Spyglass: Amyah is Nevaeh's middle name.

Not sure I can find the right meaning on Google. Possibly "beautiful angel"?

[CountryGirl]

The child had no dental records, I find that odd.

It is possible Nevaeh was unconscious and put face down in the mud and suffocated with the ready mix cement.

The POS left her by the river, still alive and smothered her in cement. That is why the COD release is taking so long.

Locals that live in the area know that Monroe, is a very small rural town in Mich. The SO should be caught if local.

My hinky says not local at all.

She had been to the dentist, but no x-rays had been taken. I read that here in one of the articles posted after her body was found.

[Spyglass]

Isn't "Amyah" Nevaeh's middle name?

IDK. I did try reversing the letters (Hayma), but that is unfamiliar to me, too.

[Kat]

Thx Scandi! I forgot about the state issue also.

one other thing I forgot the BioDad everyone keeps stating how bad they feel for him. Just where the he!! was he? This was his child. He most likey had visitation. Seeing as he was ordered to pay child support. Even though he did not.
He also let her down.

No one had this child's best interest at heart.

Hi JnTexas, I got curious as well so I went to see what I could find out.

I can't speak to the failure to pay child support, I have some very strong unkind opinions about when a Father or a Mother deny their child the most basic of support ~ financial.

But during the days that she was missing he was camping out in a tent at the apartment complex. (link: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090531/NEWS16/905310328 May 31, 2009) It says he resided in Toledo.

I do know that on the NG show he stated he was out searching with others. (Patty G uploaded that somewhere).

As for his non-payment of Child support, again I won't comment. As to if he visited, again no comment to the rumors that have been posted. I also made note that he was 17 yrs old when Nevaeh was born. Again, no excuse.

I think that the events that lead up to this happening to Nevaeh have yet to unfold.

I also think that as in many cases of abducted and/or murdered children we will find notable dysfunction in this family. I'm not using the word dysfunction as it is so often nowadays as a catch phrase for problematic families. Rather I'm using it as an indicator of severe dysfuction.

What I'm trying to say is that although the state and the adults in Nevaeh's life could have stepped forward and made a difference in her life and quite possibly could have averted this tragedy...the fact remains the person that was physically responsible for Nevaeh's welfare that particular day...chose to sit on the sofa and watch Jon and Kate + 8 reruns and was angered that she had to get up and go find her flip-flops in order to look for Nevaeh...who by that time was gone...long gone.

[Spyglass]

"Amayah has multiple meanings and origins. The Japanese version of Amayah means Night rain.. The Hebrew version of Amayah means Close to God.. The Basque version of Amayah means Amaya (Amaia) in the Basque Language (Euskara) means "The end". "


http://www.birthvillage.com/meaning/Amayah

[jnTexas]

Hi JnTexas, I got curious as well so I went to see what I could find out.

I can't speak to the failure to pay child support, I have some very strong unkind opinions about when a Father or a Mother deny their child the most basic of support ~ financial.

But during the days that she was missing he was camping out in a tent at the apartment complex. (link: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090531/NEWS16/905310328 May 31, 2009) It says he resided in Toledo.

I do know that on the NG show he stated he was out searching with others. (Patty G uploaded that somewhere).

As for his non-payment of Child support, again I won't comment. As to if he visited, again no comment to the rumors that have been posted. I also made note that he was 17 yrs old when Nevaeh was born. Again, no excuse.

I think that the events that lead up to this happening to Nevaeh have yet to unfold.

I also think that as in many cases of abducted and/or murdered children we will find notable dysfunction in this family. I'm not using the word dysfunction as it is so often nowadays as a catch phrase for problematic families. Rather I'm using it as an indicator of severe dysfuction.

What I'm trying to say is that although the state and the adults in Nevaeh's life could have stepped forward and made a difference in her life and quite possibly could have averted this tragedy...the fact remains the person that was physically responsible for Nevaeh's welfare that particular day...chose to sit on the sofa and watch Jon and Kate + 8 reruns and was angered that she had to get up and go find her flip-flops in order to look for Nevaeh...who by that time was gone...long gone.

I completely agree with you!

[eyes4crime]

Here's my take on Jennifer: She doesn't seem very educated, seems easily manipulated, and lives the life she was born into. Maybe Jennifer surrounds herself with people she is comfortable with - meaning those with sociopathic tendencies, those who are needy like herself, or those who are manipulative enough to convince her of anything and everything. Jennifer says that SO don't necessarily re-offend, she also does not want to judge them... sounds very naive doesn't it? Maybe that's how she wants others to view her..who knows! There are lots of people, educated or not, who really believe pedophiles do NOT necessarily re-offend and have no idea of the number of victims they can have in their life time. I'm going to reserve my judgement regarding Jennifer until more is known. We have no idea if that beautiful child was sexually assaulted or why she suffered the horrendous death she did. For all I know George and his buddy offenders were set-up to be the culprits while the real offender was off committing this crime. After all, all eyes were on Jennifer and her SO buddies.

[CountryGirl]

I hope there is an arrest soon. What a sad, sad case.

RIP precious Nevaeh.

[Peliman]

Monday, June 8, 2009 .Nevaeh's family awaits autopsy; 'persons of interest' moved to Jackson
Tanveer Ali / The Detroit News

Monroe -- With no fingerprints or dental x-rays available, the family of 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan will have to wait, perhaps several weeks, before a girl's body found near the River Raisin is positively identified.

Wayne County Medical Examiner Carl Schmidt said the findings of the death remain pending and could take weeks before results come in. Tissue samples were sent for special testing.

The delay is difficult, to say the least, family members said today.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090608/METRO/906080389/Nevaeh-s-family-awaits-autopsy---persons-of-interest--moved-to-Jackson

[not_my_kids]

OT- Good luck and prayers to our locals in the path of this next batch of storms (like I am.) THey are supposed to get bad.

[scandi]

Here's my take on Jennifer: She doesn't seem very educated, seems easily manipulated, and lives the life she was born into. Maybe Jennifer surrounds herself with people she is comfortable with - meaning those with sociopathic tendencies, those who are needy like herself, or those who are manipulative enough to convince her of anything and everything. Jennifer says that SO don't necessarily re-offend, she also does not want to judge them... sounds very naive doesn't it? Maybe that's how she wants others to view her..who knows! There are lots of people, educated or not, who really believe pedophiles do NOT necessarily re-offend and have no idea of the number of victims they can have in their life time. I'm going to reserve my judgement regarding Jennifer until more is known. We have no idea if that beautiful child was sexually assaulted or why she suffered the horrendous death she did. For all I know George and his buddy offenders were set-up to be the culprits while the real offender was off committing this crime. After all, all eyes were on Jennifer and her SO buddies.


Thanks for you very poignent post Eyes4crime, I think you nailed Jennifer as she might really be, given what we have heard from things she has said. That is not heresay but fact IMO and open for interpretation. And it could well be those 2 SO's were set-up as suspects. It would have to be by someone who knew everything that was going on with them and Jennifer I would expect.

You might know the answer to this question, but if the State had any idea Navaeh was being sexually abused, would they jerk her out of the home immediately? We read the State wanted her taken out of the home but it didn'thappen. I'm just trying to second guess why they made that statement that was written in the media. It could have been many reasons, the Grandma too old or not there enough for instance. xox

[eyes4crime]

Scandi: I live in the Midwest and know that if DCFS is aware that a child is being or has been sexually abused, they would find another home. Neglect due to substance abuse and other conditions would also warrant removal. Seems that Nevaeh was removed and given to grandma who, hopefully, lived in a different home. Seems to be poor planning on the part of DCFS 'cause if grandma has to work to support the child, who is she expected to use to babysit? This entire case is so tragic!

[scandi]

Scandi: I live in the Midwest and know that if DCFS is aware that a child is being or has been sexually abused, they would find another home. Neglect due to substance abuse and other conditions would also warrant removal. Seems that Nevaeh was removed and given to grandma who, hopefully, lived in a different home. Seems to be poor planning on the part of DCFS 'cause if grandma has to work to support the child, who is she expected to use to babysit? This entire case is so tragic!

Hi again, I thought we read it was after Jennifer got out of jail and was living with her mom that Child Services said they wanted Navaeh out of the home.

I'd love to nail that fact down, see if it is true, as they would have to have a good reason to feel that way, and could be the State is also neglect in caring for Navaeh in the proper way.

I don't know how to check that out.

[impatientredhead]

Here's my take on Jennifer: She doesn't seem very educated, seems easily manipulated, and lives the life she was born into. Maybe Jennifer surrounds herself with people she is comfortable with - meaning those with sociopathic tendencies, those who are needy like herself, or those who are manipulative enough to convince her of anything and everything. Jennifer says that SO don't necessarily re-offend, she also does not want to judge them... sounds very naive doesn't it? Maybe that's how she wants others to view her..who knows! There are lots of people, educated or not, who really believe pedophiles do NOT necessarily re-offend and have no idea of the number of victims they can have in their life time. I'm going to reserve my judgement regarding Jennifer until more is known. We have no idea if that beautiful child was sexually assaulted or why she suffered the horrendous death she did. For all I know George and his buddy offenders were set-up to be the culprits while the real offender was off committing this crime. After all, all eyes were on Jennifer and her SO buddies.

Not being snotty at all, genuinely curious what the life she was born into is? Do I think she was victimized as a child in order to have the poor boundaries that we see her exhibit today? Yeah, I do. But I am not sure what that really means today, in regards to her duty as a mother?

The "life I was born into" was to a 16 year old drug addict who had been victimized herself. Grew up in various forms of welfare apartments, mentally and physically abused by her and boyfriends, and molested by the type of men that are attracted to women who are drinking and drugging with their daughter in tow. Was she just living the life she was born into? I don't have kids as I wouldn't trust myself to have the nurturing/patience that it would require. I have seen another poster on this thread today talking about what I perceive to be a similar background and she isn't suggesting that JB is anything less than responsible for this situation, at least a major contributor.

I don't want to be uncaring about how she got to the place she is, but my experience in life is that you can't excuse continuously outrageous behavior in an adult because their childhood sucked. Life can be cruel, at some point you have to grow up, or if you want to be self destructive do it with adults as your cohorts, don't drag a kid through it. Someone has to do something and someone has to be held accountable or we are just sitting by and watching the next generation be groomed to do it all over again.

All eyes are on JB and RSO friends because this story has been seen before and it always ends the same way. Neveah didn't live her short childhood that included all of those factors and also fall into the 3% of stranger abductions and even if she did her mother wasn't watching her and had no clue where she was. It is still neglect.

[scandi]

Not being snotty at all, genuinely curious what the life she was born into is? Do I think she was victimized as a child in order to have the poor boundaries that we see her exhibit today? Yeah, I do. But I am not sure what that really means today, in regards to her duty as a mother?

The "life I was born into" was to a 16 year old drug addict who had been victimized herself. Grew up in various forms of welfare apartments, mentally and physically abused by her and boyfriends, and molested by the type of men that are attracted to women who are drinking and drugging with their daughter in tow. Was she just living the life she was born into? I don't have kids as I wouldn't trust myself to have the nurturing/patience that it would require. I have seen another poster on this thread today talking about what I perceive to be a similar background and she isn't suggesting that JB is anything less than responsible for this situation, at least a major contributor.

I don't want to be uncaring about how she got to the place she is, but my experience in life is that you can't excuse continuously outrageous behavior in an adult because their childhood sucked. Life can be cruel, at some point you have to grow up, or if you want to be self destructive do it with adults as your cohorts, don't drag a kid through it. Someone has to do something and someone has to be held accountable or we are just sitting by and watching the next generation be groomed to do it all over again.

All eyes are on JB and RSO friends because this story has been seen before and it always ends the same way. Neveah didn't live her short childhood that included all of those factors and also fall into the 3% of stranger abductions and even if she did her mother wasn't watching her and had no clue where she was. It is still neglect.

Hi Impatient, I don't think she was victimized intentionally by her mother to into a life where poor boundaries would rule her life. She grew up in the boundaries set by her parents which became a way of life for her and evidently never was given the tools to move off the treadmill she was on into a life with positive direction. xox

That wasn't very well said! LOL

[Kat]

I heard a remarkable quote last night and thought it was applicable here:

Many of us as children are given baggage that we must carry into adulthood. However, once we become adults it's our responsibility to unpack them. Just a thought.

[eyes4crime]

Impatientredhead: How great!! You are a survivor of a horrendous childhood and I send your way all my heartfelt hugs...

I agree - Jennifer was neglectful as a mom and who knows what else she has failed in. My question is - was there intent on her part to be neglectful? Or is Jennifer doing the 'best she can'? Education, IQ, caring people, religion, and all life and personal circumstances give the options necessary to live a better life from what was experienced as a child. If Jennifer is a known drug abuser, the child should have been taken from her. As someone earlier pointed out, was DCFS negligent in taking care of Nevaeh?

[faefrost]

I can't disagree with that. Grandma and Uncle both knew that JB was exposing Nevaeh to SO's and they'd had words with JB over it, but apparently the courts knew too and they didn't step in. If my child got mixed up in drugs and committed crimes to support their habit but then did their time, I would support them to the best of my ability when they got out because they'd deserve their shot at a second chance. There's no indication that NB has committed any crimes since she was released.

This is not a typical middle class family. They are all undereducated, not overly intelligent, and they've been raised in a different lifestyle than what most of us are familiar with. If Grandma made some poor choices, I can't fault her for it. She's suffering greatly for her bad choices, we don't need to shove her mistakes down her throat.

Stupid question here? When the mother was released from prison, did she complete her sentance, or was she parolled? In other words is she still under the jurisdiction of the corrections departments and the courts? is she still on probation? Because if she is still on probation won't she end up going back in, just for the direct associations with the violent RSO felons? let alone bringing a child into direct contact with them?

[impatientredhead]

Impatientredhead: How great!! You are a survivor of a horrendous childhood and I send your way all my heartfelt hugs...

I agree - Jennifer was neglectful as a mom and who knows what else she has failed in. My question is - was there intent on her part to be neglectful? Or is Jennifer doing the 'best she can'? Education, IQ, caring people, religion, and all life and personal circumstances give the options necessary to live a better life from what was experienced as a child. If Jennifer is a known drug abuser, the child should have been taken from her. As someone earlier pointed out, was DCFS negligent in taking care of Nevaeh?

I don't know, and it is just so sad and so frustrating. We cannot protect kids who are not being protected by their caregivers, it is just impossible. I don't know how or when we intervene, but I don't think wrapping these moms up in victim labels helps anyone. Lowering the bar for we expect from them does not help them or their kid.

And I do know first hand that it doesn't matter one bit to a 5 year old whether mom is doing the best she can or not when she is being victimized by the men mom has invited through the front door. The majority of these situations *seem* to me to be women that are more than intelligent enough to know right from wrong, and that the real issue is putting their wants above their child's needs. Being in denial doesn't make the act less intentional in my eyes, but I am open to the idea that I am very biased in my perceptions (I still think I am right though... LOL).

[KR2tonenow]

She is on probation for Home Invasion. The RSO's in custody have broken the law. She could be jailed for stupidity maybe and/or Child Neglect. Didn't Casey get nailed for that first before they charged her with more?

[Scarlett]

I certainly understand - although it will very very emotional I feel like if people not from this area saw it - it would help them figure out what really happened to this poor little girl.

Okay...I went. Like I said, it is really close to my house. I am pretty sure that a reporter snapped my picture too. I ran into family while there, and she shot a pic while I was hugging them goodbye.

It was horrible. Truly horrible. I was okay until I got about a minute from it, and then I started to feel a buzz in my body. Then when I got there, all I could do was stare down at where she was and cry.

There is no picture that could show accurately how steep that it. I have no idea how he got her down that embankment. None. Cement he could have slid down, but not her because of the stones and vines in the path that leads down. I can't imagine how someone can get down that without assistance during the day, yet alone at night carrying a small child.

I took pictures. I will load them and post them in a bit.

[mgardner]

In JB's Corrections Department bio, it lists: "Tattoo- Lower Right Ankle - Cross with banner above states "Amyah" and banner below states 'Mom.' "

Is Amyah a person's name? Sorry if this was previously addressed and I missed it.


Per America's Most Wanted, Amyah is Nevaeh's middle name.

Missing Child

Person Given Name : Nevaeh

Person Middle Name : Amyah

Person Sur Name : Buchanan

Gender : Female

Age : 5

ETA: Amyah means Beautiful angel

Gender: Girl - Origin: Hebrew


Mel

[KR2tonenow]

Okay...I went. Like I said, it is really close to my house. I am pretty sure that a reporter snapped my picture too. I ran into family while there, and she shot a pic while I was hugging them goodbye.

It was horrible. Truly horrible. I was okay until I got about a minute from it, and then I started to feel a buzz in my body. Then when I got there, all I could do was stare down at where she was and cry.

There is no picture that could show accurately how steep that it. I have no idea how he got her down that embankment. None. Cement he could have slid down, but not her because of the stones and vines in the path that leads down. I can't imagine how someone can get down that without assistance during the day, yet alone at night carrying a small child.

I took pictures. I will load them and post them in a bit.

You're awesome, thank you for your up close information. Could 2 men have been in a boat, docked there, carried her out with the cement, etc. does this seem likely? I heard there was a beer can underneath the spot where Nevaeh was buried, is this true information?

[Kat]

She is on probation for Home Invasion. The RSO's in custody have broken the law. She could be jailed for stupidity maybe and/or Child Neglect. Didn't Casey get nailed for that first before they charged her with more?

KR where can we find her probation status information? I could only find her entry at the Michigan Dept. of Corrections:

http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2profile.asp?mdocNumber=627126

On that site if you scroll down it says

PROBATION SENTENCES
ACTIVE None
INACTIVE None

SUPERVISION CONDITIONS
None

(sorry for the caps I copied and pasted 'cuz I'm lazy like that). TIA for direction to have a look for myself. :)

[eyes4crime]

Okay...I went. Like I said, it is really close to my house. I am pretty sure that a reporter snapped my picture too. I ran into family while there, and she shot a pic while I was hugging them goodbye.

It was horrible. Truly horrible. I was okay until I got about a minute from it, and then I started to feel a buzz in my body. Then when I got there, all I could do was stare down at where she was and cry.

There is no picture that could show accurately how steep that it. I have no idea how he got her down that embankment. None. Cement he could have slid down, but not her because of the stones and vines in the path that leads down. I can't imagine how someone can get down that without assistance during the day, yet alone at night carrying a small child.

I took pictures. I will load them and post them in a bit.

Scarlett: Thanks for going and posting pictures - it has to be a terrible experience to be so close. The perp is still out there, somewhere, and I hope you take good care of yourself. As was mentioned yesterday, maybe a boat was used.

[KR2tonenow]

KR where can we find her probation status information? I could only find her entry at the Michigan Dept. of Corrections:

http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2profile.asp?mdocNumber=627126

On that site if you scroll down it says

PROBATION SENTENCES
ACTIVE None
INACTIVE None

SUPERVISION CONDITIONS
None

(sorry for the caps I copied and pasted 'cuz I'm lazy like that). TIA for direction to have a look for myself. :)

You are correct, I deem alot of my information from HLN, obviously incorrect information. The Home Invasion was in 2006. Chances are she served 24 months probation. So she's clean for now....

[Jolynna]

SuziQ....Of course LE has to consider relatives, as we all know they 'are' often the perps, but they are just as often 'not'. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case in Utah..where the family was suspected but innocent. I don't think 'mothers kill their children every day' the media makes it look like this for ratings and profit. I think if you look at the official crime statistics you'll see women are very very rarely murderers, and only a tiny minority of mothers kill their children...like maybe 1 in 100,000, it's really rare.

Actually the only crimes women commit in the same numbers as men are shoplifting and killing their kids.

When a parent kills a child, the mother is as likely as the father to be the murderer. But, dads are more often sentenced to LWOP or to receive the death penalty. Moms are more often hospitalized or receive a lighter sentence.

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

[impatientredhead]

You are correct, I deem alot of my information from HLN, obviously incorrect information. The Home Invasion was in 2006. Chances are she served 24 months probation. So she's clean for now....

I have seen several sources saying she did 9-11 months but according to the link above the offense was in 8-2006, she was sentenced in 12-2006, 2 year minimum, released 01-26-09. So she missed two plus years of with Neveah? And was home for a 120 days before her daughter was dead? And GK says they have known each other for two years, but she was in jail two years ago so how did they meet at the parole office? I am confused, again, or still.

[Steely Dan]

"Amayah has multiple meanings and origins. The Japanese version of Amayah means Night rain.. The Hebrew version of Amayah means Close to God.. The Basque version of Amayah means Amaya (Amaia) in the Basque Language (Euskara) means "The end". "


http://www.birthvillage.com/meaning/Amayah

Backwards it's Hay ma. :waitasec:

[Scarlett]

There are millions of single, uneducated, disadvantaged mothers w all manner of histories from every background imaginable who do their job and take their role as a parent seriously everyday. I must agree w red who pointed out that accountability is crucial and that to go on denying the very real link between quality of parenting and the proportionate level of risks this poses to children is simply to ensure these patterns continue. It isn't about rubbing someone's nose in their mistakes, it is about accepting the responsibility for any child--and raising up a standard, becoming a voice for defenseless children against child neglect and endangerment thus learning from these tragedies in order hopefully to prevent future crimes against children.

As is the case w eg's given (children left in cars, no car seats etc), there is more than one level of culpability. And it is ALL about choices. Even GM in this case made the CHOICE, in light of her daughter's own parenting unfitness, to accept guardianship thus assuming responsibility to protect and care for Nevaeh herself. No one forced GM to assume this role, and if she didn't feel she could do so if it meant denying her daughter housing; or do so w/out resorting to Nevaeh's mother as a caregiver; or do so while working it was her option to decline. But whomever assumed that role and assumed custody of Nevaeh was the sole person who had both a legal duty and moral obligation to put Nevaeh FIRST and keep Nevaeh SAFE. It isn't about judgmentalism or tossing anyone on their can, it's about protecting those who can not protect themselves, not jeopardizing the only chance at life or safety Nevaeh had; not exposing a child to known predators nor leaving her w any who themselves choose to associate w them. For all we know there could well have been a longstanding pattern of enablement by GM-- and had GM taken a stand or set firmer boundaries and healthier limits w JB, perhaps this little girl might've lived to one day know the joy of being truly valued by her mother; as Nevaeh's mother may have learned parenting is a PRIVILEGE and that parents are STEWARDS who are not given but ENTRUSTED w children. And that those who neglect to take their responsibility seriously or to sacrifice and prioritize accordingly may one day find themselves without those responsibilities--or that unequalled privilege. Life is full of choices, yet the hard truth is the fewer consequences we're given, the fewer choices we will be left w in the end.

:parrot:

I haven't caught up but I want to respond to the above. While I understand the point that is being made, one thing is sticking in my craw. Everyone is acting as if JB was adjudicated to be unfit, and custody was taken away from her. This is not the case. GM was guardian simply bc JB was going to prison and for no other reason that I am aware of. GM still had custody, but that, I believe, was more a function of not having gone to the court to change custody back to JB. No one ever said that JB couldn't care for NB, be around NB, or anything of the sort. And her conviction for home invasion would not lead to that conclusion, either, as the crime has nothing to do with harming her.

Just because someone has committed a felony does not mean that their parental rights are terminated.

[Scarlett]

The Elizabeth Smart case contained a TOTALLY differant set of circumstances. They did not have Registered SO's as best friends, hanging out with their daughter. Jennifer knew this guy was a SO and claimed he was a "father figure" to Nevaeh. Jennifer knew he was not supposed to have any contact with children, yet she let him do so. Jennifer had Nevaeh, at four months old, in the car while she went in to rob a home for drug money. I am sorry, I can not see this woman as a "victim".

Sorry to nag, but I have only seen the "baby NB in the car while JB robbed a house" posted as a rumor on MT (which has a TON of rumors). Has any reputable news source printed this?

[Kat]

You are correct, I deem alot of my information from HLN, obviously incorrect information. The Home Invasion was in 2006. Chances are she served 24 months probation. So she's clean for now....

Sorry if it sounded like I wanted to be correct! LOL I was like dang I need to go look at that too :)

[Kat]

Sorry to nag, but I have only seen the "baby NB in the car while JB robbed a house" posted as a rumor on MT (which has a TON of rumors). Has any reputable news source printed this?

I did a google news search 6 ways to Sunday looking for confirmation of that Scarlett.

I can't find it. I'm approaching it as rumor until I see it reported or out of the mouth of one of the key players themselves.

[nursebeeme]

http://mojo.channel955.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=default.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30256/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30256/4449/richmedia/wkqi-mojo_buchanan_20090608.mp3?CCOMRRMID=29580079&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=DETROIT-MI&NG_FORMAT=personality&NG_ID=WKQIMIP&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=4449&SERVER_NAME=mojo.channel955.com&SITE_ID=4449&STATION_ID=WKQIM-IP&TRACK=Nevaeh_Buchanan

has anyone listened to THIS radio interview? JB does not even know at this time whether Neveah even made it upstairs! Didn't she claim to "look" for herself for 45 minutes? Wouldn't she look there first?????

Also she claims she is NOT pregnant by George Kennedy. ((even tho the radio DJ said that a friend of Jennifer's called in earlier today to say she was pregnant with his child))

She did not state she is NOT pregnant...

Someone is the background is yelling "that's what you get!" while she is explaining away the Sex offender reasoning... ie why she let the SO around her child

There is a lot more... there are three spots at the link.

[nursebeeme]

http://mojo.channel955.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=default.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30256/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30256/4449/richmedia/wkqi-mojo_buchanan_20090608.mp3?CCOMRRMID=29580079&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=DETROIT-MI&NG_FORMAT=personality&NG_ID=WKQIMIP&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=4449&SERVER_NAME=mojo.channel955.com&SITE_ID=4449&STATION_ID=WKQIM-IP&TRACK=Nevaeh_Buchanan

more from this interview:
she thinks it is someone involved with GK... like his girlfriend, etc... motive: get back or money owed... it is nothing she claims to know about personally just her mind trying to come up with scenarios.

All of her interviews were at least five hours long. The first one was seven hours. She claims she is not worried because she had nothing to do with the vanishing of her daughter.

When asked why she never shows emotion... she says she shows it in her own home.. She says if she cries people will want her to stop. If she doesn't cry she is guilty.. .She says she waits to cry until she doesn't have an audience? ((aside... how can you cry on command))

Says when she heard about the river finding... that day she had been out looking at the Sterling State park and got a call to come home.

She believes her daughter is up in Heaven right now.

She says Neveah is the "monroe angel" and describes her as happy and very independant. Her mom says, "I was very proud of her"

Radio host asks her to respond to the finger pointers. She says, "there is nothing I can say there is always going to be someone with their assumptions". She claims that if people got the time to know her they wouldn't think that way. She has denied talking to GK since his arrest and holds him responsible in her mind.

She says this wouldn't be easy for anyone.

[nomoresorrow]

One of the things that originally drew me to WS's was that there were so many survivors here who not only broke cycles of abuse in their own life/children's life, they were passionate and outspoken about awareness & prevention of abuse in the life's of all children. I am proud as a survivor myself to be a part of that. Sadly I don't even share that connection with the other 4 individuals who were victimized by the same perpetrator(s) as myself over the course of thier childhood - my siblings. I am the one in five. I told the secrets and broke the silence. For that I changed my life and the life's of my children but it did not change the life's of my siblings who went onto deny, call me a liar, protect the abuser, subject their own children to the abuser and abuse their own children themselves. I have lived with a type of survivors guilt for many years because I was not able to bring my siblings along in the recovery/wellness process. I am in no way excusing JB's behavior here whatsoever but I can't help but think that I have met many other JB's in my life, including in my own family. Although I don't know the events surrounding JB's upbringing, I see an individual who is extremely detached. She lacks the ability to gage and assess danger because of that detachment. Research tells us that those abused as children are more likely to be victimized as adults - they are more likely to place themselves in dangerous situations without even recognizing the danger around them. This is part of the detachment. What may have served them well as a child in order to survive the unthinkable, ironically works against them as adults and it renders them incapible of protecting their own child(ren). The "mother's instinct" that many refer to is not instinctional to the detached mother. Instinctional to her is minimizing other's behavior, (it's not that bad) even, as an adult, crediting her abuse as "making her strong," thereby denying the negative affects that it had upon her and likewise with her child(ren), "Hey I survived it and it didn't hurt me, it only made me stronger, they'll survive it too." There are no inner red flags or alarm bells in a detached mother. This is the danger when abused children grow up and have children of their own - they may not abuse their own child directly but instead subject them to other's who will/do. We hear it and see it over and over again with woman/mothers. JB, in my opinion, is a classic case = "Daddy George." So while I feel blessed that I was not able to deny the truth about my abuse, I also take with me the awareness that 4 of my fellow victims were not able to accept that truth and in so doing, continued the cycle of abuse, directly and/or indirectly in the life's of their own children. It takes more than words such as, "When I have kids I'm never going to do to them what was done to me," it takes therapy to undo the years of disassociation and detachment behaviors that allowed one to survive but now endanger their life and more especially, the life of the child they bring into this world. In my opinion this is critical in preventing access to children by sex offenders!
JMOO

[nursebeeme]

http://mojo.channel955.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=default.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30256/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30256/4449/richmedia/wkqi-mojo_buchanan_20090608.mp3?CCOMRRMID=29580079&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=DETROIT-MI&NG_FORMAT=personality&NG_ID=WKQIMIP&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=4449&SERVER_NAME=mojo.channel955.com&SITE_ID=4449&STATION_ID=WKQIM-IP&TRACK=Nevaeh_Buchanan

this is from part two of the radio interview

they came in to jennifer's today and said ID could take until the end of this week or even into next week.

The body is not identifiable.

(((((((sorry for this long post... just transcribed the radio show for those who cannot click))))))))

She is concerned that everyone wants to put her in the category of parents who harm their children

[impatientredhead]

I haven't caught up but I want to respond to the above. While I understand the point that is being made, one thing is sticking in my craw. Everyone is acting as if JB was adjudicated to be unfit, and custody was taken away from her. This is not the case. GM was guardian simply bc JB was going to prison and for no other reason that I am aware of. GM still had custody, but that, I believe, was more a function of not having gone to the court to change custody back to JB. No one ever said that JB couldn't care for NB, be around NB, or anything of the sort. And her conviction for home invasion would not lead to that conclusion, either, as the crime has nothing to do with harming her.

Just because someone has committed a felony does not mean that their parental rights are terminated.

No, her rights were not terminated.

The fact remains that in the course of 118 days JB returned to her daughters life after being absent for 2 years, brought multiple registered sex offenders into her life despite family dissent, had an intimate relationship with one of these sex offenders, in her own words put him in the role of a father figure and on day 118 at a minimum did not know where her daughter was while a murdering child rapist ended her life.

Defending JB's choices and her rights as a mother are not high on my list. As you mentioned she never quite got around to filing to have those rights fully restored. She must have been busy, like she was when her kid was taken.

[athy]

i don't understand why JB thinks GK or his girlfriend could have done this because they owed money...how would that have gotten them the money they owed the person? it doesn't make sense.

[MIMOMMY]

InTexas - I just wanted to verify that at NO point did I say that being a product of her enviroment was an excuse for JB or anyone else involved to neglect Naveah --- or any parent and any child for that matter -- If you read my previous post I was QUESTIONING the grandmother and mothers decision making.....

*just to verify of course*

[nursebeeme]

http://mojo.channel955.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=default.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30256/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30256/4449/richmedia/wkqi-mojo_buchanan_20090608.mp3?CCOMRRMID=29580079&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=DETROIT-MI&NG_FORMAT=personality&NG_ID=WKQIMIP&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=4449&SERVER_NAME=mojo.channel955.com&SITE_ID=4449&STATION_ID=WKQIM-IP&TRACK=Nevaeh_Buchanan

four minutes into part three of the radio show the hosts are discussing that money owed aspect too, Athy

[kiki the parrot]

I haven't caught up but I want to respond to the above. While I understand the point that is being made, one thing is sticking in my craw. Everyone is acting as if JB was adjudicated to be unfit, and custody was taken away from her. This is not the case. GM was guardian simply bc JB was going to prison and for no other reason that I am aware of. GM still had custody, but that, I believe, was more a function of not having gone to the court to change custody back to JB. No one ever said that JB couldn't care for NB, be around NB, or anything of the sort. And her conviction for home invasion would not lead to that conclusion, either, as the crime has nothing to do with harming her.

Just because someone has committed a felony does not mean that their parental rights are terminated.

And something's stuck in my craw too... that this mother knowingly exposed her child to more than one RSO. GM was given custody and if JB wanted to re-establish guardianship or reverse that decision then she needed to first ACT like a fit parent --then seek the court's approval by taking appropriate steps. The court, and the law, certainly DO advocate that children be protected from predators and would never knowingly award custody, nor restore custody, to any person who acknowledged willfully endangering or putting them at risk. And the little matter of that home invasion, allegedly w Nevaeh in tow shows again not only extreme poor judgment but reckless disregard for the wellbeing of her child.

:parrot:

[Scarlett]

And something's stuck in my craw too... that this mother knowingly exposed her child to more than one RSO. GM was given custody and if JB wanted to re-establish guardianship or reverse that decision then she needed to first ACT like a fit parent --then seek the court's approval by taking appropriate steps. The court, and the law, certainly DO advocate that children be protected from predators and would never knowingly award custody, nor restore custody, to any person who acknowledged willfully endangering or putting them at risk. And the little matter of that home invasion, allegedly w Nevaeh in tow shows not only extreme poor judgment but reckless disregard for the wellbeing of her child.

:parrot:

My point was not whether she acted appropriately or even whether she was a good parent. I have seen it repeatedly asked whether CPS knew that she was with Nevaeh, or stated that GM had to make a choice to live without JB in her home...all of these comments are making the assumption that JB was not allowed to be around NB for some reason. That is not the case.

While I think that JB made some horrible choices, and she is by far not mother of the year, it doesn't do our purpose any good to confuse issues or muddle facts.

ETA: also making statements like "allegedly with N in tow"...again, that hasn't been proven. That is a rumor from MT. I am just trying to sift through what is real and what is talk. I am not interested in making judgments based on non facts and rumors.

[kiki the parrot]

My point was not whether she acted appropriately or even whether she was a good parent. I have seen it repeatedly asked whether CPS knew that she was with Nevaeh, or stated that GM had to make a choice to live without JB in her home...all of these comments are making the assumption that JB was not allowed to be around NB for some reason. That is not the case.

While I think that JB made some horrible choices, and she is by far not mother of the year, it doesn't do our purpose any good to confuse issues or muddle facts.

ETA: also making statements like "allegedly with N in tow"...again, that hasn't been proven. That is a rumor from MT. I am just trying to sift through what is real and what is talk. I am not interested in making judgments based on non facts and rumors.

And because you disagree doesn't mean I'm the least confused. There is no "rumor" to the fact the mother in question lost custody due to her imprisonment--and when finally able to be reunited w her daughter and make better choices made even poorer ones and ADMITTEDLY thought nothing of introducing at least one SO boyfriend to her CHILD. You seem focused on arguing a moot legalistic point, one I've never argued, which is the legal permissability of whether or not the mother herself was allowed to have contact based on those charges. I'm focused on the implications of the ensuing high-risk associations (nevermind negligent supervision) of that mother to which Nevaeh was further subjected while subsequently in her mother's care--which directly or indirectly may very well have cost Nevaeh her life.

:parrot:

[not_my_kids]

I just want to see if I am clear on a point here.

I know that CPS was involved with Jennifer and Nevaeh, the way I have come to understand it from the reports is that CPS recommended removal and it didn't happen.

For those of you that don't know, The MI CPS system is pretty much as follows:
1. CPS is alerted to the possibility of abuse or neglect. IF the abuse is on very young kids or is reported by an anonymouse source, then they visit the child(ren) and parents and home, otherwise, they normally try to talk to the kids privately, usually at school.
2. If the worker decides that there is evidence proving abuse or neglect, they open a case. Once a case is opened, the worker can either decide to recommend either the child stay with the family and services be used to improve the parenting skills or the child(ren) be removed from the parent.
3. When removal is deemed to be the safest thing, there are two chioces. CPS either leaves the kid (s)in the home until they can get a judge to approve the removal, or they take the kids from the home with the judge's approval and schedule a hearing within the next 72 hours.

Step 3 is where the system apparently fell apart for Neveah, from everything I have heard her father say, it seems like CPS recommended removal and the judge disagreed. If that is the case, then CPS did their job and it was the judge that failed Nevaeh.

[nomoresorrow]

go nancy g!!!

[Scarlett]

And because you disagree doesn't mean I'm the least confused. There is no "rumor" to the fact the mother in question lost custody due to her imprisonment and when finally able to be reunited w her daughter and make better choices made even poorer ones and ADMITTEDLY thought nothing of introducing at least one SO boyfriend to her CHILD. You seem focused on arguing a moot legalistic point, one I've never argued, which is the legal permissability of whether or not the mother herself was allowed to have contact based on those charges. I'm focused on the IMPLICATIONS of the ensuing high-risk ASSOCIATIONS (nevermind negligent supervision) of that mother while Nevaeh was in her care which directly or indirectly may very well have cost Nevaeh her life.



Listen, I am not trying to pick a fight with you. If I misunderstood your post, I apologize. My understanding is based on the following portion of your post:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"] And it is ALL about choices. Even GM in this case made the CHOICE, in light of her daughter's own parenting unfitness, to accept guardianship thus assuming responsibility to protect and care for Nevaeh herself. No one forced GM to assume this role, and if she didn't feel she could do so if it meant denying her daughter housing; or do so w/out resorting to Nevaeh's mother as a caregiver;


This is not the first time in this thread or the previous threads on this topic that I have seen someone make the inference that JB couldn't be around NB. That is what I am getting from your post and, I admit, there have been several that have flat out asked "didn't CPS know she was with NB? Did anyone call CPS and tell them that JB was around NB? etc"

I am sorry if you don't like legalistic points of view. However,I think that a legalistic view is much more helpful than an overly emotional one. While I have many emotions about this case, I try very hard to separate those emotions when I am reviewing the facts of the case. And when I see something being misunderstood or repetitively mis-stated, I speak up. I am sorry that you are the one I chose to speak up with, as you are certainly not the first one to infer or state that JB couldn't be around NB.

I apolgize to all for the detour. I will stay on topic from now on. :)

I am trying to find the dang cord to hook my camera up to my laptop. I will get the pics loaded soon.

[Scarlett]

I just want to see if I am clear on a point here.

I know that CPS was involved with Jennifer and Nevaeh, the way I have come to understand it from the reports is that CPS recommended removal and it didn't happen.

For those of you that don't know, The MI CPS system is pretty much as follows:
1. CPS is alerted to the possibility of abuse or neglect. IF the abuse is on very young kids or is reported by an anonymouse source, then they visit the child(ren) and parents and home, otherwise, they normally try to talk to the kids privately, usually at school.
2. If the worker decides that there is evidence proving abuse or neglect, they open a case. Once a case is opened, the worker can either decide to recommend either the child stay with the family and services be used to improve the parenting skills or the child(ren) be removed from the parent.
3. When removal is deemed to be the safest thing, there are two chioces. CPS either leaves the kid (s)in the home until they can get a judge to approve the removal, or they take the kids from the home with the judge's approval and schedule a hearing within the next 72 hours.

Step 3 is where the system apparently fell apart for Neveah, from everything I have heard her father say, it seems like CPS recommended removal and the judge disagreed. If that is the case, then CPS did their job and it was the judge that failed Nevaeh.

I haven't heard the father say this. Was this on NG? Is there a link? Is there something definitive that states that CPS was involved? I haven't read that on any of the news sites. I vaguely remember a talking head on NG saying that, but then there was a reason that it made no sense at the time. I remember us discussing it here as it was happening. Was it on the night that her body was found? (just trying to jog my own memory).

[Fairfaux08]

Due to the fact that I haven't been on WS in a couple of days, I was unable to respond to Peliman's map on the previous thread. In addition to the other helpful markers, and for what it's worth, the Hi-Lite Market where it has been reported that the supposed "Busch" beer can was purchased, is located on the Northwest corner of Telegraph Rd (US-24) and Dunbar Rd. After a slight building renovation several years ago, it is a full service grocery store. However, it is really dinky in comparison to the other local mega stores like Kroger or Meijer.

I also took the liberty of pointing out another well traveled local route used to get out to South Custer (M-50) and North Custer by taking Dunbar Rd west to S. Raisinville Rd past the fairgrounds and crossing the River Raisin to North Custer Rd.

[kiki the parrot]

One of the things that originally drew me to WS's was that there were so many survivors here who not only broke cycles of abuse in their own life/children's life, they were passionate and outspoken about awareness & prevention of abuse in the life's of all children. I am proud as a survivor myself to be a part of that. Sadly I don't even share that connection with the other 4 individuals who were victimized by the same perpetrator(s) as myself over the course of thier childhood - my siblings. I am the one in five. I told the secrets and broke the silence. For that I changed my life and the life's of my children but it did not change the life's of my siblings who went onto deny, call me a liar, protect the abuser, subject their own children to the abuser and abuse their own children themselves. I have lived with a type of survivors guilt for many years because I was not able to bring my siblings along in the recovery/wellness process. I am in no way excusing JB's behavior here whatsoever but I can't help but think that I have met many other JB's in my life, including in my own family. Although I don't know the events surrounding JB's upbringing, I see an individual who is extremely detached. She lacks the ability to gage and assess danger because of that detachment. Research tells us that those abused as children are more likely to be victimized as adults - they are more likely to place themselves in dangerous situations without even recognizing the danger around them. This is part of the detachment. What may have served them well as a child in order to survive the unthinkable, ironically works against them as adults and it renders them incapible of protecting their own child(ren). The "mother's instinct" that many refer to is not instinctional to the detached mother. Instinctional to her is minimizing other's behavior, (it's not that bad) even, as an adult, crediting her abuse as "making her strong," thereby denying the negative affects that it had upon her and likewise with her child(ren), "Hey I survived it and it didn't hurt me, it only made me stronger, they'll survive it too." There are no inner red flags or alarm bells in a detached mother. This is the danger when abused children grow up and have children of their own - they may not abuse their own child directly but instead subject them to other's who will/do. We hear it and see it over and over again with woman/mothers. JB, in my opinion, is a classic case = "Daddy George." So while I feel blessed that I was not able to deny the truth about my abuse, I also take with me the awareness that 4 of my fellow victims were not able to accept that truth and in so doing, continued the cycle of abuse, directly and/or indirectly in the life's of their own children. It takes more than words such as, "When I have kids I'm never going to do to them what was done to me," it takes therapy to undo the years of disassociation and detachment behaviors that allowed one to survive but now endanger their life and more especially, the life of the child they bring into this world. In my opinion this is critical in preventing access to children by sex offenders!
JMOO

This case brings up alot of emotions for many of us here. Thank you for sharing, I'm very sorry that you and your siblings endured this :hug: And so grateful that you, at least have broken this cycle and overcome such a painful past. I'm a survivor of abuse myself, and am not w/out compassion nor understanding of this destructive cycle. Not everyone will escape what for many becomes a lifetime of bondage, shame and guilt. My point is simply that children in the meantime must still be protected. If that means removing children from the homes of those who were abused in the past whose judgment is still compromised as a result, until they can act as protectors to children, so be it. Unless or until a parent has been freed from those chains or capable as you put it of "instinctually" protecting their children, we have a responsibility to all children to intervene on their behalf. They deserve advocacy so they are not victimized, and must be placed in the care of those who can and will protect them.
:blowkiss:
:parrot:

[nursebeeme]

fwiw, iirc the grandmother decided to go ahead and assume custody/apply for it before Jennifer was sentenced. This was per a media interview with the brother very early on in the case...

[Chilly Willy]

I understand your frustration, Scarlett. Much of what now gets stated as fact came from rumors posted at the Monroe Talks site. It's difficult at this point to determine what is and isn't fact.

[whisperOFwings]

I would compare this to a parent who does not use a car seat or safety belt for their child.They are in an accident for which the parent may or may not be responsible for.The child ends up thrown from the car and is critically injured.After suffering hours of poking and prodding in the hospital the child dies.Investigators determine that if the child had been buckled in she most likely would not have recieved ANY injuries.
Is the parent the victim? The parent was negligent and that led to the childs death.
JB knowingly exposed her child to dangerous people.She did not watch out for a 5 year old child....just let her go.She just let her go ..........

bolded by me.....
~~~She just let her go~~~ My god, the way you worded that, so eloquent. My heart is breaking, just so, so sad.

[amysmom]

Hi everyone!! I've been reading all the posts and can't say enough about all the links, information, and the batting around of ideas. Glad to be with all of you.

:Welcome-12-june:

Glad to have ya here! :Banane44:

[MissJames]

I haven't caught up but I want to respond to the above. While I understand the point that is being made, one thing is sticking in my craw. Everyone is acting as if JB was adjudicated to be unfit, and custody was taken away from her. This is not the case. GM was guardian simply bc JB was going to prison and for no other reason that I am aware of. GM still had custody, but that, I believe, was more a function of not having gone to the court to change custody back to JB. No one ever said that JB couldn't care for NB, be around NB, or anything of the sort. And her conviction for home invasion would not lead to that conclusion, either, as the crime has nothing to do with harming her.

Just because someone has committed a felony does not mean that their parental rights are terminated.
They don't have rights TERMINATED ,but depending on the crime ,they often lose custody.This is considered temporary until the parent completes whatever plan social services and the courts deem necessary.If they can't get it together then rights are often terminated.Most SS's try to keep kids with family.
I have no idea what,if any, conditions social services put on JB having Neveah.I don't even know if SS had anything to do with GM having custody.What upsets me is Gm leaving Neveah with mom when she knew who mom was hanging with. I also suspect gm was aware that mom wasn't the greatest babysitter.

[Scarlett]

fwiw, iirc the grandmother decided to go ahead and assume custody/apply for it before Jennifer was sentenced. This was per a media interview with the brother very early on in the case...

In Monroe county there is approximately a month between a plea and sentencing. In the meantime, the probation dept. does what is called a pre-sentence recommendation report where a p.o. interviews the defendant and, based on that interview and the scoring of the guidelines, makes a recommendation to the Judge regarding what the sentence should be.

She knew she was going to do time, so I am sure JB and GM were making the necessary arrangements, even though she hadn't been sentenced yet.

[eyes4crime]

I know I'll be bombarded, but I want to say this about Jennifer! Why is it that so many people need to cast guilt and blame on her? This young woman (24yo) has just lost her child in the most horrible of circumstances...yes, she was guilty for not following her child upstairs, downstairs, and outside, but how many mothers do the exact same thing? I don't see ANY benefit in continuing to discuss why and how Jennifer is guilty...I want to discuss how and why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete! Children disappear from their beds, from rich people, poor people, educated, intelligent, and uneducated and low IQ...there are NO barriers protecting children from pedophiles, murderers, or abuse...all children are vulnerable. You can talk about what constitutes 'good mothering' all you want, and each of us would have different perspective.


...is there any such thing as the perfect mother? We view mothering from our own vantage point, our role models, lifestyle, IQ, education, status, and ability to make, what we feel, are good JUDGEMENTS...and the like. The NG interview was a disgrace to everyone who wants to support a grieving mother who is in agony and is feeling guilt. Jennifer has managed to live her life with the defenses of denial and minimization - maybe that's how she, herself has survived. Her child was found encased in CEMENT...a crime more like the mafia rather than a pedophile....she has to deal with this tragedy in the best way she knows how.

[Scarlett]

They don't have rights TERMINATED ,but depending on the crime ,they often lose custody.This is considered temporary until the parent completes whatever plan social services and the courts deem necessary.If they can't get it together then rights are often terminated.Most SS's try to keep kids with family.
I have no idea what,if any, conditions social services put on JB having Neveah.I don't even know if SS had anything to do with GM having custody.What upsets me is Gm leaving Neveah with mom when she knew who mom was hanging with. I also suspect gm was aware that mom wasn't the greatest babysitter.

I can tell you this is not the case in Monroe COunty.

[amysmom]

I have seen several sources saying she did 9-11 months but according to the link above the offense was in 8-2006, she was sentenced in 12-2006, 2 year minimum, released 01-26-09. So she missed two plus years of with Neveah? And was home for a 120 days before her daughter was dead? And GK says they have known each other for two years, but she was in jail two years ago so how did they meet at the parole office? I am confused, again, or still.

Bold by me

I'm very confused by this also & IIRC she's said the same thing so what gives?

[not_my_kids]

I haven't heard the father say this. Was this on NG? Is there a link? Is there something definitive that states that CPS was involved? I haven't read that on any of the news sites. I vaguely remember a talking head on NG saying that, but then there was a reason that it made no sense at the time. I remember us discussing it here as it was happening. Was it on the night that her body was found? (just trying to jog my own memory).

I've been reading transcripts looking for the quote, and haven't found it. I think it was an article. The quote I remember would have been from the day that they found Nevaeh's body, and her father said something along the lines of how hard he had fought for custody followed by a comment about how he and the state both tried to save her, but no one listened.

Then I see all the social worker talk and people blaming the state...So if anyone else has a link, could you post it? I am going to find this article if it kills me.

[Scarlett]

Okay...here we go. I could not walk down the embankment. I was in a suit and heels, but even if I were in something more appropriate, there is no way I could have done it without something to rappel me down. All the pics are from above.

view from behind my car as I parked and walked toward the site:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3609610406_7710a23842.jpg?v=0

[Scarlett]

looking back at the road as I was walking to the site:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3308/3608797275_12e7e4d6c1.jpg?v=0

walking up to the drop...you can see from this picture that it is steep by the fact that you can't see anything past the dirt except for the water below:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/3609614634_74f0395567.jpg?v=0

Looking down the path...very deceiving. This picture makes it look walkable...it is not. Notice, though, the rocks and vines in the path. The crushed grass on the left is from LE, ME and now visitors:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3608801963_6e23890a38.jpg?v=0

[Scarlett]

close up of memorial where Nevaeh was found:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3609619056_4c2108eebe.jpg?v=0

long shot of memorial from above:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3609620042_936ff11e85.jpg?v=0

close up of path leading down to site:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3609620968_b687bc618f.jpg?v=0

[Scarlett]

another of the memorial
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3660/3608808057_8c59a4e573.jpg?v=0

looking down on the memorial (the left)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3608808967_a9d5e3e81f.jpg?v=0

another distance shot
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3608810631_16cb1f48fd.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3609620042_936ff11e85.jpg?v=0

that is about all. the rest are duplicates. I am going to work up to going back and trying to get down to the actual site. I will need hubby to go with me and I will need to get up the nerve.

[eyes4crime]

Scarlett - THANKS SO MUCH! You are a real trooper and your photography is fantastic. I had no idea it was on such a deep slope - can't imagine how anybody would get a body, cement, water, and a shovel down there. Looks like a boat could get real close - maybe that's how it all came bout. Thanks again!

[momtective]

I can't see any bond whatsoever between Nevaeh and her mother Jennifer. The rumor that Jennifer committed a robbery while 4 month old Nevaeh was left unattended in the get away vehicle say's a lot. The fact that Jennifer was incarcerated most of Nevaeh's life say's even more. I'm just guessing here but I think the relationship between the two at the time of Nevaeh's disappearance was simply a baby-sitter type relationship. Jennifer simply earned her keep at Sherry & Nevaeh's apartment, babysitting Nevaeh while Sherry worked to support all three of them. JMHO of course.
I suspect she was the type of horrible baby-sitter we all fear, self-serving, irresponsible and neglectful.
Sherry was the one who had the mother-daughter bond with little Nevaeh and my heart hurts deeply for this lady.

[doobiedoo52]

Thanks for the pictures Scarlett. If you actually go down to the site, it would be nice to know how much of a drop to the edge of the water or is it right up to bank?

[Scarlett]

Thanks for the pictures Scarlett. If you actually go down to the site, it would be nice to know how much of a drop to the edge of the water or is it right up to bank?

I have been up too long. :) I don't understand the question, and that is all me. :) Are you asking how close NB was to the water, or how steep the drop is?

[kiki the parrot]

Listen, I am not trying to pick a fight with you. If I misunderstood your post, I apologize. My understanding is based on the following portion of your post:


This is not the first time in this thread or the previous threads on this topic that I have seen someone make the inference that JB couldn't be around NB. That is what I am getting from your post and, I admit, there have been several that have flat out asked "didn't CPS know she was with NB? Did anyone call CPS and tell them that JB was around NB? etc"

I am sorry if you don't like legalistic points of view. However,I think that a legalistic view is much more helpful than an overly emotional one. While I have many emotions about this case, I try very hard to separate those emotions when I am reviewing the facts of the case. And when I see something being misunderstood or repetitively mis-stated, I speak up. I am sorry that you are the one I chose to speak up with, as you are certainly not the first one to infer or state that JB couldn't be around NB.

I apolgize to all for the detour. I will stay on topic from now on.

I've explained my position which you seem to still be mischaracterizing. There is a difference between legal, and legalistic. A "legal" point of view is one w which both the law, and I, are concerned--protecting the child's overall welfare, including their emotional, moral, physical and material best interests. "Legalistic" refers to an overpreoccupation w whether a given behavior or activity is technically illegal--regardless of those factors. My position is passionate but based upon principles and hardly clouded by excessive emotion. It seems the focus of your attack is misdirected, as *I* actually never said once (much less "repetitively misstated") that JB was prohibited, legally or otherwise, from merely "being around" her daughter. I said that her mother no longer had custody; and that her further choice to expose her daughter to sex offenders while in her care was what jeopardized her daughter's safety. I stand by that position and hope others will feel equally strongly re any parent or guardian's ultimate responsibility to be the primary protector of their child.


:parrot:

[momtective]

Okay...here we go. I could not walk down the embankment. I was in a suit and heels, but even if I were in something more appropriate, there is no way I could have done it without something to repel me down. All the pics are from above.

Thank you so much Scarlett for such a wonderful contribution to this forum. Do you think it would have been possible to wheel a cooler down that incline? I'm guessing not but I'd like to know your opinion. TIA

[Scarlett]

Thank you so much Scarlett for such a wonderful contribution to this forum. Do you think it would have been possible to wheel a cooler down that incline? I'm guessing not but I'd like to know your opinion. TIA

you could potentially drag it behind you if you could manage down the path on foot. It would bump around a lot bc of the rocks and roots. if you rappelled down the path you would have to strap it to you somehow. If it was light enough he could have tossed it. it could have landed on the bank, but more likely would have gone into the water. it would have floated in the water for a minute before it sank, so maybe he would have had time to get down there after tossing it.

I don't know. just looking at it today it seemed impossible to do what we all know he somehow managed to do.

[not_my_kids]

[quote=momtective;3849180]

you could potentially drag it behind you if you could manage down the path on foot. It would bump around a lot bc of the rocks and roots. if you repelled down the path you would have to strap it to you somehow. If it was light enough he could have tossed it. it could have landed on the bank if, but more likely would have gone into the water. it would have floated in the water for a minute before it sank, so maybe he would have had time to get down there after tossing it.

I don't know. just looking at it today it seemed impossible to do what we all know he somehow managed to do.

Would it have been possible if she were tied into a wheelbarrow or wrapped in something and just kind of thrown over the drop? God, these are hard questions.

[momtective]

Could a cooler such as this one have been taken down that slope?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Disposal of Naveah's body: Theories

[Scarlett]

[quote=Scarlett;3849198]

Would it have been possible if she were tied into a wheelbarrow or wrapped in something and just kind of thrown over the drop? God, these are hard questions.

he could have put her in a wheelbarrow and pushed her down, but it would be difficult with that type of momentum to keep it from going into the water. he could throw her over the drop, but again...she would hit the water. And I am assuming that he is doing this in the dead of night. There are no street lights out there. it is very rural. He would have to have brought some type of light with him to do what he had to do.

I am thinking maybe I should take my camcorder out there and post the video. If I did that, how could I post it here?

[Scarlett]

Could a cooler such as this one have been taken down that slope?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Disposal of Naveah's body: Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3844728&postcount=1)

I am so new to this site...where is that thread? How do I get to it?

I think that type of cooler could be used. With wheels and that type of handle, he could have used a rope to tie it to himself and just let it drag behind him on the way down.

Maybe it is easier than it looks. The fishermen who found her are not spring chickens and they got down there. I guess I won't know how difficult it is until I go down there. Clearly (from the memorial) plenty of people have made it down there.

[Scarlett]

WOW! there is a whole Nevaeh forum! I am still figuring out how to get around here. I didn't know there was a whole forum! I thought that there was just this thread.

[A_Closer_Look]

Maybe it is easier than it looks. The fishermen who found her are not spring chickens and they got down there. I guess I won't know how difficult it is until I go down there. Clearly (from the memorial) plenty of people have made it down there.

It's probably a lot easier with 2 people. Those fishermen likely had tackle boxes, drinks, rods, possibly a cooler, etc... but they had something that definitely made it easier for them... each other.

I can see Someone carefully making their way down and then someone up top tossing or sliding things down to them. Then maybe person up top leaves in the vehicle and person at the bottom does the business. No car up top means even if someone drives by, there's no chance of seeing anything. Then maybe person who took vehicle comes back at a predetermined time, maybe 20 minutes later or something... to pick up person 2. Hence the rushed feel to the whole thing.

Just speculating...

[kiki the parrot]

I know I'll be bombarded, but I want to say this about Jennifer! Why is it that so many people need to cast guilt and blame on her? This young woman (24yo) has just lost her child in the most horrible of circumstances...yes, she was guilty for not following her child upstairs, downstairs, and outside, but how many mothers do the exact same thing? I don't see ANY benefit in continuing to discuss why and how Jennifer is guilty...I want to discuss how and why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete! Children disappear from their beds, from rich people, poor people, educated, intelligent, and uneducated and low IQ...there are NO barriers protecting children from pedophiles, murderers, or abuse...all children are vulnerable. You can talk about what constitutes 'good mothering' all you want, and each of us would have different perspective.


...is there any such thing as the perfect mother? We view mothering from our own vantage point, our role models, lifestyle, IQ, education, status, and ability to make, what we feel, are good JUDGEMENTS...and the like. The NG interview was a disgrace to everyone who wants to support a grieving mother who is in agony and is feeling guilt. Jennifer has managed to live her life with the defenses of denial and minimization - maybe that's how she, herself has survived. Her child was found encased in CEMENT...a crime more like the mafia rather than a pedophile....she has to deal with this tragedy in the best way she knows how.

And as long as we persist in denying and minimizing by excusing and cloaking parental neglect, childish values, selfish priorities and poor judgment under the guise of "she's doing her best," or on grounds of "no mother's perfect," we here at WS and more importantly those in LE, FBI and morgues across the country, will only find themselves busier and busier w child victims.

Even here at WS, I don't see us collectively solving and getting convictions on every past and potential future molestor and murderer... theoretically, the parent IS the ultimate BARRIER, and in addressing the absence of this final safeguard *I* TOO am discussing why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete.

:parrot:

[Scarlett]

It's probably a lot easier with 2 people. Those fishermen likely had tackle boxes, drinks, rods, possibly a cooler, etc... but they had something that definitely made it easier for them... each other.

I can see Someone carefully making their way down and then someone up top tossing or sliding things down to them. Then maybe person up top leaves in the vehicle and person at the bottom does the business. No car up top means even if someone drives by, there's no chance of seeing anything. Then maybe person who took vehicle comes back at a predetermined time, maybe 20 minutes later or something... to pick up person 2. Hence the rushed feel to the whole thing.

Just speculating...

for some reason I always think of it having been one person, but you are absolutely right...it would be far easier with two.

I am off for the night. 11:30 here and I need to get ready for bed. toddler will wake me up in the morning, so I can't stay up late. :)

[eyes4crime]

And as long as we persist in denying and minimizing by excusing and cloaking parental neglect, childish values, selfish priorities and poor judgment under the guise of "she's doing her best," and on the grounds of "no mother's perfect" we here at WS and more importantly those in LE, FBI and morgues across the country will only find themselves busier and busier w child victims.

Even here at WS, I don't see us collectively solving and getting indictments on every past and potential future molestor and murderer... ultimately the parent IS the ultimate BARRIER and in addressing the absence of this final safeguard *I* TOO am discussing why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete.

:parrot:

Since the blame on here is toward mom, how would you go about changing a 24yo, single mom's personality? Maybe denial and minimization is how she survived...Do you really expect people to do more than the 'best they can do at the time'? maybe there should be certificates for parenthood based on judgement, IQ, knowledge, rap sheets, life history and genetics.


I have pretty good judgment, I'm educated, and have developed certain qualities over time - I certainly didn't have them all at age 24. In retrospect, I can't say with certainty I never put my children in danger while raising them. I can't say with certainty I understood pedophiles the way I do now. I can't say with certainty that age 24 and in crisis, I would be a whole lot better than Jennifer on national TV being pounded by the likes of NG. I live in the Midwest and it DOES get dark around 9:00pm..why did NG confuse her by repeating 7:30? Everyone has judgments on what makes a 'good enough' parent and those judgments are based on a person's frame of reference. I'm not in a position to judge Jennifer, I am in the position to try and figure out why her little girl was found dead in cement. And as long as I continue to blame her lack of parenting, my success in understanding this crime will be null. Of course her lifestyle and judgement had something to do with it...but what else happened and why.

[cleo612]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501 (http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501)

"I looked everywhere," she said. "I spent at least 45 minutes looking."

She said she told the apartment manager her daughter was missing, circled the building and came around the other side, where she found the purple and green scooter Nevaeh often rode.

"My heart sank," she said, "and my stomach went into knots."

Somebody called the police, and an Amber Alert was issued.


In other words, it took JB somewhere between 45 minutes and TWO HOURS to walk around ONE building.

JB states that she looked for Nevaeh for about 45 minutes, yet it was almost two hours after being told that she was playing in the "road" before the police were called.

Why the heck would it take THAT long to walk around ONE building?

[White Hawk]

There is one person here that has escaped blame so far. That is the low life that took her. For that we can blame societies low standards now days and the lax court systems. Yes I believe that Jen made mistakes and it could have very well contributed to her daughters disappearance simply by making it so easy for the perp. I truly believe in my heart that we are all to blame in some small way because we have let standards slip so low and let our judicial system cut so many corners. Most people don't want to get involved unless it affects then directly. Thank God they are many people on this web site that are not like that!

[STEADFAST]

In other words, it took JB somewhere between 45 minutes and TWO HOURS to walk around ONE building.

JB states that she looked for Nevaeh for about 45 minutes, yet it was almost two hours after being told that she was playing in the "road" before the police were called.

Why the heck would it take THAT long to walk around ONE building?

Here's the part from that same link that makes no sense to me (alright, one of the parts that makes no sense.)

According to JB, Neveah headed upstairs to go to Austin's. Then:


"About 20 minutes later, a girl Buchanan described as a tattletale knocked on the door.

"She looked right at me and says, 'Nevaeh is on her scooter in the road,' " Buchanan said. "She said the road, but I knew she meant the parking lot."

Buchanan was angry at her daughter [apparently for riding her scooter in the street] and said she looked for her flip-flops so she could go out to find her. A moment later, another girl knocked.

"Is Nevaeh home?" Buchanan remembers the girl asking. "And I said, 'She has to be upstairs at Austin's, but she is either out back, or out front, or upstairs at Austin's.' "

If she was really headed out to tell Nevaeh to stop riding her scooter in the street, why would she tell that child that Nevaeh was probably upstairs at Austins? Why didn't she say that Nevaeh was out in the parking lot riding her scooter? And why mention she looked for her flip flops?? To explain away time?

I don't think she did anything when the girl told her Neveah was riding in the street. I don't think she went to find Nevaeh for an hour or so after she was told that.
Makes much more sense she started searching around 7:30. Searched for 45 min and then "someone" called the police at 8:15.

[eyes4crime]

There is one person here that has escaped blame so far. That is the low life that took her. For that we can blame societies low standards now days and the lax court systems. Yes I believe that Jen made mistakes and it could have very well contributed to her daughters disappearance simply by making it so easy for the perp. I truly believe in my heart that we are all to blame in some small way because we have let standards slip so low and let our judicial system cut so many corners. Most people don't want to get involved unless it affects then directly. Thank God they are many people on this web site that are not like that!

The person responsible for encasing Nevaeh in cement has not escaped my blame - that's what I want to focus on. Let's just say the perp knew that Jennifer hung around with sex offenders....maybe he also knew she had served time in prison. That's two very important scenarios that would cause intense suspicions toward mom and friends when Nevaeh went missing. A smart perp would use all that to his advantage. While running away with beautiful Nevaeh, murdering her and encasing her in cement, he knew Jennifer and friends would be the center of everyones' suspicion. Seems to me that scenio would exist if a pedophile took Nevaeh or there was a huge grudge toward someone.

Your so right about our court system - there should never be a plea bargain for a pedophile or rapist. The judges and Prosecutors need to be educated regarding sex crimes, especially those with children. You're so right - we are all responsible.

[Melly53]

Excellent point about the supposed time she spent searching. And I have to agree with what Nursebeeme mentioned back in post 141.....why in all of that time would she not have gone upstairs to ask if Nevaeh was there, or if she had even been there at all? Wouldn't that be the next logical place that you would look for her if you did not find her in the parking lot?

Sorry but her stories have more holes than swiss cheese IMO.

[eyes4crime]

Excellent point about the supposed time she spent searching. And I have to agree with what Nursebeeme mentioned back in post 141.....why in all of that time would she not have gone upstairs to ask if Nevaeh was there, or if she had even been there at all? Wouldn't that be the next logical place that you would look for her if you did not find her in the parking lot?

Sorry but her stories have more holes than swiss cheese IMO.

Her stories are so variable, I'm beginning to wonder if she was sleeping, high, or not even there. Mom Jen doesn't even seem to be aware of her many inconsistent time-lines. I think Jen forgets she is saying all this in front of national TV. Can't imagine what her interviews with PD have been like.

Good night all - my first time here has been an exercise of the mind..it's been great.

[kiki the parrot]

Since the blame on here is toward mom, how would you go about changing a 24yo, single mom's personality? Maybe denial and minimization is how she survived...Do you really expect people to do more than the 'best they can do at the time'? maybe there should be certificates for parenthood based on judgement, IQ, knowledge, rap sheets, life history and genetics.


I have pretty good judgment, I'm educated, and have developed certain qualities over time - I certainly didn't have them all at age 24. In retrospect, I can't say with certainty I never put my children in danger while raising them. I can't say with certainty I understood pedophiles the way I do now. I can't say with certainty that age 24 and in crisis, I would be a whole lot better than Jennifer on national TV being pounded by the likes of NG. I live in the Midwest and it DOES get dark around 9:00pm..why did NG confuse her by repeating 7:30? Everyone has judgments on what makes a 'good enough' parent and those judgments are based on a person's frame of reference. I'm not in a position to judge Jennifer, I am in the position to try and figure out why her little girl was found dead in cement. And as long as I continue to blame her lack of parenting, my success in understanding this crime will be null. Of course her lifestyle and judgement had something to do with it...but what else happened and why.

Anyone familiar w me around here knows I am hardly here in defense of NG lol (think maybe she was given the wrong last name?)
;) :biggrin:
But as long as we waste time blaming NG, our success in understanding either contributors or opportunity for this crime will be null. I agree that all parents have at one time or another probably unwittingly put a child in harm's way. (Even NG humbly admitted she left her babies where they were able to roll off the bed omg :eek:) The law itself distinguishes or 'judges' whether neglect is willful and criminal--and rightfully so. Did you as a parent of any age expose your children to pedophiles? Is there alot to 'understand' about adults who molest children when it comes to our child's safety? As a society we need to be clear it isn't "judgmental" to speak out against child neglect/abuse, which is the very trap into which Nevaeh's mother fell head first. "I didn't want to be judgmental," "I believe in second chances," yada yada. Parents listen up. Take chances on your own time. Don't invite or introduce known sex offenders, lewd and lacivious molestors, or predators to spend time with your children.

Truthfully, after what I read here, and just what I observe right here in my own community, I'm honestly beginning to believe some parents should be licensed. When the couple nextdoor (who, despite repeated concerned warnings, are too busy everyday watching tv to get up off their lazy behinds and follow their 3 year-old outside, whom I've brought to them crying injured eg from the playground, rescued from the middle of the parking lot, ad infinitum but who nevertheless still continue protesting in angry "denial" that they can 'see' their child--from three buildings down--as they go about "minimizing" those risks of injuries, cars backing over their child, or worse) one day learn their child has met w harm, are they "victims?" I know, that's when the wailing and wringing of hands will begin...

Even the bible says to first "remove the beam from our own eye"--not that we oughtn't ever judge any behavior or have any standards but that we need to judge ourselves FIRST before we may see clearly another's actions. If I'm doing the same thing, making excuses why I can't watch my own little girl while criticizing another, that's not only judgmental it's hypocritical. I agree "nobody's perfect" and sure there are those random crimes where some are victimized despite every precaution. But we don't need to invite all the foxes in to guard the chicken coop either, and those who understand their responsibility to children at least take every measure to minimize those chances.

:parrot:

[nursebeeme]

I am just rewatching the interview NG and Jennifer.. I have noticed the first inconsistent statement:

She said that Neveah went upstairs to play.

Nancy asks her when she first figured out her child was missing and she said "about thirty minutes after she went outside"

So okay Jennifer.. what is it..... did you know Neveah went outside and not upstairs?

Also she says that she grabbed a popcicle on the way out of the door. If I were LE I would be looking for that popcicle stick!!!! Was it in the stairwell? On the ground outside? She had to have dropped it somewhere. If she started eating it when she walked out of the door how long does it take a kid to eat one and where did she leave the stick? It could help to trace the general direction she was headed...

[KaylynnCouture]

Nancy is really grilling Jennifer.

[concentric]

The person responsible for encasing Nevaeh in cement has not escaped my blame - that's what I want to focus on. Let's just say the perp knew that Jennifer hung around with sex offenders....maybe he also knew she had served time in prison. That's two very important scenarios that would cause intense suspicions toward mom and friends when Nevaeh went missing. A smart perp would use all that to his advantage. While running away with beautiful Nevaeh, murdering her and encasing her in cement, he knew Jennifer and friends would be the center of everyones' suspicion.

I've thought of that angle also. Who would know that information? Could it be someone no one would suspect, but living in or working at that complex who often observed and listened to what was going on with the family and "friends?"

If it is, who? A neighbor, a maintenance person, friend of a friend?

[nursebeeme]

goodnight peeps! Here's to hoping for the best in lady justice...for little Neveah

[bessie]

Goodnight, Nurse. ;)

[Forensic fan]

I am just rewatching the interview NG and Jennifer.. I have noticed the first inconsistent statement:

She said that Neveah went upstairs to play.

Nancy asks her when she first figured out her child was missing and she said "about thirty minutes after she went outside"
So okay Jennifer.. what is it..... did you know Neveah went outside and not upstairs?
Also she says that she grabbed a popcicle on the way out of the door. If I were LE I would be looking for that popcicle stick!!!! Was it in the stairwell? On the ground outside? She had to have dropped it somewhere. If she started eating it when she walked out of the door how long does it take a kid to eat one and where did she leave the stick? It could help to trace the general direction she was headed...


They live in the basement of the building. She has to go upstairs to get outside, maybe that is what is confusing.

[STEADFAST]

Goodnight, Nurse. ;)

My mom used to say that all the time! (Oops, OT):angel:

[Steely Dan]

No, her rights were not terminated.

The fact remains that in the course of 118 days JB returned to her daughters life after being absent for 2 years, brought multiple registered sex offenders into her life despite family dissent, had an intimate relationship with one of these sex offenders, in her own words put him in the role of a father figure and on day 118 at a minimum did not know where her daughter was while a murdering child rapist ended her life.

Defending JB's choices and her rights as a mother are not high on my list. As you mentioned she never quite got around to filing to have those rights fully restored. She must have been busy, like she was when her kid was taken.

I understand the idiocy of her choices but they have past. She's not a high IQ person, literally, and obviously has zero common sense. That doesn't mean she isn't grieving. JMO

I haven't heard the father say this. Was this on NG? Is there a link? Is there something definitive that states that CPS was involved? I haven't read that on any of the news sites. I vaguely remember a talking head on NG saying that, but then there was a reason that it made no sense at the time. I remember us discussing it here as it was happening. Was it on the night that her body was found? (just trying to jog my own memory).

I'd like to see something too.

I know I'll be bombarded, but I want to say this about Jennifer! Why is it that so many people need to cast guilt and blame on her? This young woman (24yo) has just lost her child in the most horrible of circumstances...yes, she was guilty for not following her child upstairs, downstairs, and outside, but how many mothers do the exact same thing? I don't see ANY benefit in continuing to discuss why and how Jennifer is guilty...I want to discuss how and why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete! Children disappear from their beds, from rich people, poor people, educated, intelligent, and uneducated and low IQ...there are NO barriers protecting children from pedophiles, murderers, or abuse...all children are vulnerable. You can talk about what constitutes 'good mothering' all you want, and each of us would have different perspective.


...is there any such thing as the perfect mother? We view mothering from our own vantage point, our role models, lifestyle, IQ, education, status, and ability to make, what we feel, are good JUDGEMENTS...and the like. The NG interview was a disgrace to everyone who wants to support a grieving mother who is in agony and is feeling guilt. Jennifer has managed to live her life with the defenses of denial and minimization - maybe that's how she, herself has survived. Her child was found encased in CEMENT...a crime more like the mafia rather than a pedophile....she has to deal with this tragedy in the best way she knows how.

:clap::clap:

Nancy seemed to be surprised when JB left the show. She even made a snide comment about it. Why would she stay if NG keeps saying things roughly like this, at least in spirit.

JB why are you such a horrible mother?
Why did you let a child molester near your kid? You know that makes you a horrible mother!
You obviously have no clue how to parent!
You never should have let her go outside without monitoring her so that makes you a horrible mother!
I have no sympathy for you because you're a horrible mother!
Did I mention you're a complete idiot and horrible mother?!

I'm not saying some of those things don't apply but why keep saying the same thing in different ways. We get it. She made some serious mistakes but how many times does she need to be told that? I think she gets it now, we all get it. Show a little sympathy and see what she thinks happened.

I'd be willing to bet that NG has made mistakes or will make mistakes that put her kids in jeopardy. Parents can't be 100% perfect. If one of those mistakes leads to a tragedy with her kids should she be vilified?

I'm not trying to make a comparison between NG and JB because JB was not close to a good parent but when a mistake leads to the worst possible conclusion don't always blame the parent. Is John Walsh an idiot for leaving his kid at the video game section of Sears? Does that mean he shouldn't be able to grieve? Parents do things that a 1000 times before were ok but one time it leads to the worst case scenario. JMO

I have been up too long. :) I don't understand the question, and that is all me. :) Are you asking how close NB was to the water, or how steep the drop is?

I think she's asking how far down is the water from the bank, does the water hit the top of the bank and lap up against the dirt or is the water a few inches down from the bank leaving some height between the bank and the water? After reading that I'm not sure I explained it correctly. :waitasec:

At least that's how I took it.

[Chilly Willy]

They live in the basement of the building. She has to go upstairs to get outside, maybe that is what is confusing.

No, JB specifically said that she watched Nevaeh go into Austin's apartment. At one time she said she watched from the bottom of the stairs, at another time she said she went up stairs with Nevaeh. I would like to know if anyone was home at that apartment at 6:30. If not, how could Jennifer possibly see Nevaeh enter? If so....what the heck happened? Did Nevaeh leave immediately after arriving?

[scandi]

Hi Steely Dan, I read here it is 90' from the road down to the edge of the river. I don't know where that poster got their info.

The only thing I have read about the edge of the bank is the water there is between 3 and 4 feet deep. I know that isn't what you asked. xox

[MissJames]

I'm not sure Grandma had a lot of choices. She, apparently, was the sole provider for the three of them, and worked for close to minimum wage at a local grocery store. What was she supposed to do, not go to work? It's easy to judge someone when we're not in their shoes.

Chilly,
I have to admit I laid awake last night troubled at my reaction to the grandma.
"There ,but for the Grace of God ,go I"
:blowkiss:

[Scarlett]

I think she's asking how far down is the water from the bank, does the water hit the top of the bank and lap up against the dirt or is the water a few inches down from the bank leaving some height between the bank and the water? After reading that I'm not sure I explained it correctly. :waitasec:

At least that's how I took it.

The upper part of the embankment, near the road, is quite a bit above the water. But where N was laid was within inches of the water. Not even a foot away from what I could see. And it was even with the water, not above it.

[Kat]

We did learn last night in an interview after the NG show and that is JB isn't pregnant at all. (I had heard that but now we can lay it to rest as a rumor).

I'm not going anywhere with this, just curious as to what anyone else thinks...

At about 1:36 in this video~ is that Sherry? What do you make of Sherry's expression while she listens?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Nancy Grace Exclusive 6/8/2009 w/ Neveah's Mom.

As I said ~ just curious, I am not going anywhere with it.

Also can someone tell me who the young lady was with Jennifer last night in the green shirt and why she would be able to answer any questions and what part of the timeline she would have direct knowledge about?

TIA.

[Scarlett]

I am not sure where we put these things, but others have posted links to new missings in this thread. I am going to follow suit:

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=310280

[Scarlett]

We did learn last night in an interview after the NG show and that is JB isn't pregnant at all. (I had heard that but now we can lay it to rest as a rumor).

I'm not going anywhere with this, just curious as to what anyone else thinks...

At about 1:36 in this video~ is that Sherry? What do you make of Sherry's expression while she listens?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Nancy Grace Exclusive 6/8/2009 w/ Neveah's Mom. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3849886&postcount=302)

As I said ~ just curious, I am not going anywhere with it.

Also can someone tell me who the young lady was with Jennifer last night in the green shirt and why she would be able to answer any questions and what part of the timeline she would have direct knowledge about?

TIA.

That link showed a pic of James Easter and called him Roy Smith. These people really need to get their s*** together.

The girl in the green is Holly H-something. She is JB's friend. I think she was just trying to protect JB and take some heat off of her. NG was getting ridiculous.

I don't think Sherry was making a face that she hasn't made before. I have seen multiple interviews where she tips her head down and kind of widens her eyes like that. The first time I saw her make that face I thought it was strange and possibly significant. However, I later noticed that she made that face again and again, so I have kind of blown it off as just a strange expression of hers.

[Kat]

I am not sure where we put these things, but others have posted links to new missings in this thread. I am going to follow suit:

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=310280

Hi Scarlett it took me a while to understand where to post what on which missing thread in the Missing Forum.

New cases of Missing can/should be posted in the category (it's the first subforum in the missing forum) Missing Persons Information and Support ~ those threads are for information only and support of the family members and loved ones that come read here.

Then when we want to discuss the case in depth and the details of the case we start another thread in the Missing/Located Forum Discussion.

When a case gets very large Mods will create yet another sub forum for that case alone.

I hope that made sense :)

[doobiedoo52]

Sorry about the confusion on my question Scarlett. I am the wife of an avid fisherman and have been to many river banks lol. I was referring to the "landing area" where Nevaeh was buried. Pictures can be deceiving. If let's say you're standing right where she was buried and look down at the water--does the water come right up to the edge of the grass there OR is the bank where she is buried a solid piece of land several feet above the water line. That would make a huge difference on its accessibility from a boat. I hope that explains it better.

[bessie]

Also can someone tell me who the young lady was with Jennifer last night in the green shirt and why she would be able to answer any questions and what part of the timeline she would have direct knowledge about?

TIA.

Well, we'd have that answer if NG would've shut up long enough to let her speak. :mad:

I got the impression she was with JB that day. Maybe the friend who spent Saturday night at JB's apartment. She tried to say something in agreement with JB's statement that she had seen Neveah go upstairs, but NG shot her down before she could get it out.

[believe09]

don't you wonder why Jennifer kept Neveah? Really-I mean why did they work to keep her? Let's say CPS made it clear they wanted her out of the home-what was the motivation for Jennifer blocking Neveah moving on? I mean, she knowingly put her child at risk, right, with the company she kept and she couldn't be bothered to really watch her herself...at least on the surface that is how it appears to me.

Maybe if we figure out why some of these women insist on keeping the children they really don't seem to want we will figure out how to prevent some of the destruction that happens later....

[Peliman]

Sorry to interrupt, now posted in the mapping and timeline thread

Mapping, the addition of the beer can and known purchase store of Hi-Lite super market has given me another mapping point. Mapping points used and routes in purple are from "Charolette Arms" to Motel 7" to "Hi-Lite super market" to M-50 the only route taken to Dixon rd area where the body was found. You may draw your own conclusions over time. Purple is traced routes from location to location.

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/ChancesR_2009/Nevaehmap.jpg

[momtective]

**Respectfully snipped**

At about 1:36 in this video~ is that Sherry? What do you make of Sherry's expression while she listens?

Also can someone tell me who the young lady was with Jennifer last night in the green shirt and why she would be able to answer any questions and what part of the timeline she would have direct knowledge about?

TIA.

It wasn't Sherry, I think her name is Holly.

[Scarlett]

Sorry about the confusion on my question Scarlett. I am the wife of an avid fisherman and have been to many river banks lol. I was referring to the "landing area" where Nevaeh was buried. Pictures can be deceiving. If let's say you're standing right where she was buried and look down at the water--does the water come right up to the edge of the grass there OR is the bank where she is buried a solid piece of land several feet above the water line. That would make a huge difference on its accessibility from a boat. I hope that explains it better.

there is no grass where the water meets the land...only dirt. but it is even with the water line, not above it.

[Scarlett]

It wasn't Sherry, I think her name is Holly.

I think she was talking about behind JB...Sherry was standing behind her and at 1:36 in the video she seemed to make a face.

[momtective]

I think she was talking about behind JB...Sherry was standing behind her and at 1:36 in the video she seemed to make a face.

Got cha! Thanks!

[believe09]

this case is shaping up to be too much like Rowan Ford's for me....

[Kat]

Sorry to interrupt, now posted in the mapping and timeline thread

Mapping, the addition of the beer can and known purchase store of Hi-Lite super market has given me another mapping point. Mapping points used and routes in purple are from "Charolette Arms" to Motel 7" to "Hi-Lite super market" to M-50 the only route taken to Dixon rd area where the body was found. You may draw your own conclusions over time. Purple is traced routes from location to location.

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/ChancesR_2009/Nevaehmap.jpg

I have to ask Peliman a question everyone.

But first let me say to all that are reading this posting please don't think I'm focusing on H. Howerton as a suspect. I just always give a close look at anyone who shows up as a player in cases. No matter how small their part. I am of the opinion if you volunteer to give statements to national media and go on TV in connection with a case, well I'm going to look at you hard LOL.

I just found it interesting that the home address that I have found for Ms. Howerton is very close to the Hi-Lite Super Market that the reported beer (can) was reportedly purchased. That is *RUMOR* about the beer can until we can get confirmation.

Okay her address is listed as 6144 GREENWYCKE LN, MONROE, MI (sorry for the caps I'm copy and pasting)

The Hi-lite Super Market is listed as 15539 S Telegraph RdMonroe, MI 48161

Neveah's apartments address is : 1166 N Macomb St, Monroe, Michigan 48162

If you look at the distance between the super market and the address for H.H. it is 1.3 miles. Just thought I'd throw that out there. It probably means nothing but still...you never know.

Also when I did a search for her, she popped up as having an entry in Offenders Information - OTIS Michigan Department ~ but I went to that particular site and could not pull her up. She's not listed. I think there is a chance that the records are purged from the system if it's not a felony or sex offense? Not sure. Could be an incorrect hit? I don't have a paid site subscription.

Sorry, please don't think I'm pointing the finger at her for anything. I just wanted to check her out since she has given a statement to the press and was on NG last night with JB.

[impatientredhead]

I can't see any bond whatsoever between Nevaeh and her mother Jennifer. The rumor that Jennifer committed a robbery while 4 month old Nevaeh was left unattended in the get away vehicle say's a lot. The fact that Jennifer was incarcerated most of Nevaeh's life say's even more. I'm just guessing here but I think the relationship between the two at the time of Nevaeh's disappearance was simply a baby-sitter type relationship. Jennifer simply earned her keep at Sherry & Nevaeh's apartment, babysitting Nevaeh while Sherry worked to support all three of them. JMHO of course.
I suspect she was the type of horrible baby-sitter we all fear, self-serving, irresponsible and neglectful.
Sherry was the one who had the mother-daughter bond with little Nevaeh and my heart hurts deeply for this lady.

I have no idea if the daughter was with her or not but she definitely was not 4 months old. Her inmate sheet shows the offense in 8-06, sentenced in 12-06, 2 year minimum, released 1-26-09.

[AfterSunset]

wouldn't it be something if that uncle who came to JB's rescue (ie beating on the door to stop the interview with NG) had been that protective of little Nevaeh?
just saying....who was there to protect this innocent child?
moo moo moo
:mad:

[elle1919]

I have to ask Peliman a question everyone.

But first let me say to all that are reading this posting please don't think I'm focusing on H. Howerton as a suspect. I just always give a close look at anyone who shows up as a player in cases. No matter how small their part. I am of the opinion if you volunteer to give statements to national media and go on TV in connection with a case, well I'm going to look at you hard LOL.

I just found it interesting that the home address that I have found for Ms. Howerton is very close to the Hi-Lite Super Market that the reported beer (can) was reportedly purchased. That is *RUMOR* about the beer can until we can get confirmation.

Okay her address is listed as 6144 GREENWYCKE LN, MONROE, MI (sorry for the caps I'm copy and pasting)

The Hi-lite Super Market is listed as 15539 S Telegraph RdMonroe, MI 48161

Neveah's apartments address is : 1166 N Macomb St, Monroe, Michigan 48162

If you look at the distance between the super market and the address for H.H. it is 1.3 miles. Just thought I'd throw that out there. It probably means nothing but still...you never know.

Also when I did a search for her, she popped up as having an entry in Offenders Information - OTIS Michigan Department ~ but I went to that particular site and could not pull her up. She's not listed. I think there is a chance that the records are purged from the system if it's not a felony or sex offense? Not sure. Could be an incorrect hit? I don't have a paid site subscription.

Sorry, please don't think I'm pointing the finger at her for anything. I just wanted to check her out since she has given a statement to the press and was on NG last night with JB.

Nice work Kat....I don't think your pointing fingers at all, just doing what a good sleuther (is that a word) will do. I don't think it is a coincidence that everyone around Nevaeh has a questionable past. It just reinforces that this child was on everyone's radar for being at risk and noone thought it necessary to change her circumstances.

[nursebeeme]

We did learn last night in an interview after the NG show and that is JB isn't pregnant at all. (I had heard that but now we can lay it to rest as a rumor).

I'm not going anywhere with this, just curious as to what anyone else thinks...

At about 1:36 in this video~ is that Sherry? What do you make of Sherry's expression while she listens?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Nancy Grace Exclusive 6/8/2009 w/ Neveah's Mom. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3849886&postcount=302)

As I said ~ just curious, I am not going anywhere with it.

Also can someone tell me who the young lady was with Jennifer last night in the green shirt and why she would be able to answer any questions and what part of the timeline she would have direct knowledge about?

TIA.

Morning Kat... sorry if this has already been answered. The girl in the green shirt was Holly. A friend of Jennifer. She claims to have been with Jennifer all the time since the disappearance. I have to go back and watch Nancy to get her last name. I also believe this is the same Holly that the radio hosts mentioned yesterday... I believe it was in part three when they said that they never planned on Jennifer calling in... that their plan was to interview Holly about Jennifer.. to give her a chance to show what kind of a person Jennifer was and than Jennifer called in. I personally think she was on nancy for "strength in numbers".... too bad it didn't work.. they both looked weak, scared, stooooopid, and slightly tinged with guilt (moo of course)

I too noticed Sherry in the background and to me her expression was saying, "you lying b~~~ch" She had squinting lazer glare pointed right at Holly... perhaps for sticking up for Jennifer like that?

MOO of course

[KR2tonenow]

The Motel 7 and Hi Lite store are very close. With the accuracy of forensics, its amazing how many POS think they can go under the radar, NOT! The map above depics the close proximity and garners many clues for LE.

[Kat]

I found it Nurse (morning to you too :))

[SleuthyMama]

Scarlett-just wanted to thank you for going to the memorial site and taking pictures. That was so difficult for you, I'm sure. So thank you. You took amazing pictures. They are a great help.

[SuziQ]

I posted in the NG thread that I think Gma thinks Holly is full of carp. If looks could kill! It was like Gma was hearing all of this for the first time and calling BS on it.

[SuziQ]

Is Holly the friend that supposedly went with JB and NB to Kmart? Have we ever heard a confirmation that they all in fact went to Kmart?

[nursebeeme]

we don't know... thanks to Nancy going ape sh!t on them before they could get a word in edgewise! (sorry but I still really wish she would have had her "investigator" hat on last night instead of her prosecutor bonnet!!!)

[KR2tonenow]

I haven't heard any confirmation of Kmart. Do we have an accurate timeline yet?

[believe09]

You guys probably covered this days ago-but I wonder now if GK jumped ship because of he knew he should not be around a child and it was getting too chancy that he would be reported...and he was done with JB. Perhaps, and this is just SPECULATION, JB rid herself of her obstacle in an attempt to win him back?

[SuziQ]

You guys probably covered this days ago-but I wonder now if GK jumped ship because of he knew he should not be around a child and it was getting too chancy that he would be reported...and he was done with JB. Perhaps, and this is just SPECULATION, JB rid herself of her obstacle in an attempt to win him back?

Wanting to hang on to a man has been the motive for many kid's demise unfortunately.

What I find interesting is GK says he hadn't seen them for a couple of months. JB says 4 days? She can't call 911, but she can call him. And he appears to be the first person she calls. Why?

[Kat]

While doing searches for RSO in the area of Nevaeh's home did anyone look at:

Weston, J. F. who's current address is on N Macomb St (same street as Nevaeh) he looks like he is complaint. I can't determine the exact crime he commited. Or if Nevaeh would fall into his MO.
The reason I ask is that his address to Nevaeh's is only 0.6 miles.

Another one that caught my eye is this one:

Bellestri J. F. address is on Ida Maybee (Road?) That was near to where Nevaeh's body was discovered?

Can someone give me general address of gravesite? I'll look at how close these addresses are.

This particular RSO (Bellestri) has a notation on his file as : Criminal Sexual Conduct 1st Degree (Person Under 13)

You can look up these men at : http://www.mipsor.state.mi.us/

What does anyone think about this?

[Peliman]

I have to ask Peliman a question everyone.

But first let me say to all that are reading this posting please don't think I'm focusing on H. Howerton as a suspect. I just always give a close look at anyone who shows up as a player in cases. No matter how small their part. I am of the opinion if you volunteer to give statements to national media and go on TV in connection with a case, well I'm going to look at you hard LOL.

I just found it interesting that the home address that I have found for Ms. Howerton is very close to the Hi-Lite Super Market that the reported beer (can) was reportedly purchased. That is *RUMOR* about the beer can until we can get confirmation.

Okay her address is listed as 6144 GREENWYCKE LN, MONROE, MI (sorry for the caps I'm copy and pasting)

The Hi-lite Super Market is listed as 15539 S Telegraph RdMonroe, MI 48161

Neveah's apartments address is : 1166 N Macomb St, Monroe, Michigan 48162

If you look at the distance between the super market and the address for H.H. it is 1.3 miles. Just thought I'd throw that out there. It probably means nothing but still...you never know.

Also when I did a search for her, she popped up as having an entry in Offenders Information - OTIS Michigan Department ~ but I went to that particular site and could not pull her up. She's not listed. I think there is a chance that the records are purged from the system if it's not a felony or sex offense? Not sure. Could be an incorrect hit? I don't have a paid site subscription.

Sorry, please don't think I'm pointing the finger at her for anything. I just wanted to check her out since she has given a statement to the press and was on NG last night with JB.

Hello Kat, couple comments. I haven't seen the complete NG show from last night, I assume that's whom you mean. Going from there I thought the beer can pretty much confirmed by a couple news sources but not LE itself. Thus the attempt to locate and map to source. Yes I was a bit surprised it was close to motel seven and had it's own route to M-50.

I'm not sure what's up with GK and more curious about Roy S. and who else stays at motel seven. Here's a growing theme and nexus with JB.

Motel seven is on the corner of Dixie Hwy and Dunbar Rd., does it surprise anyone the prisoner dorm is on Dunbar Rd, 4 minute by drive from motel seven.

I'm seeing a nexus of past offenders in JB's life. Starting with GK who introduced Roy S. to her. Possibly the one you're discussing and lets not forget the RSO that created the myspace scam people mention. I'm late to that ball game. Does it surprise me the new person pops up in or near the Hi-Lite super market, not anymore it dosen't. I'm not sure what happened that night but look what it did to the hair on my head.

[STEADFAST]

Wanting to hang on to a man has been the motive for many kid's demise unfortunately.

What I find interesting is GK says he hadn't seen them for a couple of months. JB says 4 days? She can't call 911, but she can call him. And he appears to be the first person she calls. Why?

You should probably add this to the discrepancies and inconsistencies thread, in case it becomes important to find it later.

[KR2tonenow]

another of the memorial
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3660/3608808057_8c59a4e573.jpg?v=0

looking down on the memorial (the left)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3608808967_a9d5e3e81f.jpg?v=0

another distance shot
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3608810631_16cb1f48fd.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3609620042_936ff11e85.jpg?v=0

that is about all. the rest are duplicates. I am going to work up to going back and trying to get down to the actual site. I will need hubby to go with me and I will need to get up the nerve.

Thank you so much for taking the time in heels no less, with these beautiful shots. I can say 2 large men easily could have slid down this embankment. A local would have been a pro at night, manuevering and carrying a small child. I am sure that when all is said and done, the ROS in custody are the POS George and Roy.

So, why are LE looking elsewhere. Why are they saying the POS is still out in the community?

[sandcastles4me]

I think it seems that JB wants everyone to feel sorry for her now and keeps going on the radio and tv to get it, and she just isn't getting it from the majority of the people. I just can't feel sorry for her. The true person I feel sorry for is the Grandmother who took care of Nevaeh for a good part of her life, and of course my heart breaks for little Nevaeh.

[Kat]

LOL @ the hair on your head Peliman :D

Okay so we do have a nexus around JB. I know that we don't know the answers to these questions but I was curious as to exactly how close JB and HH are and if they shared the same social circles. KWIM? One friend has other friends and those other friends are known to BFF sort of thing. And they are all intertwined and connected and it's a mess? LOL no need to respond...we are getting a very broad picture here and it's very ugly for Nevaeh. :sheesh:

[lonetraveler]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090608/METRO/906080389/1409/METRO/Testing-in-Nevaeh-case-could-take-days--family-told

Monday, June 8, 2009


Testing in Nevaeh case could take days, family told



I think that answers our questions about why the COD, and time of death have not been released as of yet. They won't release any information until a positive ID has been made. I'm concerned that the state of decomp might have been advanced and it might hinder some testing. JMHO
-------------
I know I'm the impatient sort but how long does it take to match Nevaeh's hair to her mothers to ID her? Does any of your supersleuths remember how long it took for Caylee's hair to be tested against Casey's? I could very well be wrong but in my very unprofessional opinion, maybe this would be the fastest method to ID Nevaeh?

[lonetraveler]

Thank you so much for taking the time in heels no less, with these beautiful shots. I can say 2 large men easily could have slid down this embankment. A local would have been a pro at night, manuevering and carrying a small child. I am sure that when all is said and done, the ROS in custody are the POS George and Roy.

So, why are LE looking elsewhere. Why are they saying the POS is still out in the community?
--------------
I still have my suspicions about Savannah and Jennifer.

[Kat]

Thank you so much for taking the time in heels no less, with these beautiful shots. I can say 2 large men easily could have slid down this embankment. A local would have been a pro at night, manuevering and carrying a small child. I am sure that when all is said and done, the ROS in custody are the POS George and Roy.

So, why are LE looking elsewhere. Why are they saying the POS is still out in the community?

:doh: holy carp KR2 why didn't I think of that? As much time as I spent in the podunk countryside of Kentucky as a kid...why didn't I remember that when you want to go down a very steep incline while hiking you sit your butt down on the ground and work your way down? It's not hard, it doesn't take a long time at all and yes you can carry something with you when you do it.

Good work!

[lonetraveler]

Thank you so much for taking the time in heels no less, with these beautiful shots. I can say 2 large men easily could have slid down this embankment. A local would have been a pro at night, manuevering and carrying a small child. I am sure that when all is said and done, the ROS in custody are the POS George and Roy.

So, why are LE looking elsewhere. Why are they saying the POS is still out in the community?
-------------
It looks like the hardest part would be to go back up the hill. I believe that the cement bag and the little girl could have been manipulated down this slope with one man and maybe a woman or another man to assist.

[lonetraveler]

You guys probably covered this days ago-but I wonder now if GK jumped ship because of he knew he should not be around a child and it was getting too chancy that he would be reported...and he was done with JB. Perhaps, and this is just SPECULATION, JB rid herself of her obstacle in an attempt to win him back?

-----------
Doesn't Savannah also have small children? I do agree with you on a possible motive for JB. I'm thinking the same thing.

[lonetraveler]

I haven't heard any confirmation of Kmart. Do we have an accurate timeline yet?
----------
I'm also wondering if Jennifer and Nevaeh ever made it to KMart........

[Kat]

-------------
It looks like the hardest part would be to go back up the hill. I believe that the cement bag and the little girl could have been manipulated down this slope with one man and maybe a woman or another man to assist.

Yes I do too now lonetraveler, another method occured to me to get down the hill.

You step sideways, bracing your forward foot against rocks or tree roots. Yes, you can carry things this way too. I've hiked many miles in my youth in the hills of KY.

To come up, you can always come up forward~ just bend over at your waist and grab onto tree roots, rocks or anything else to get some leverage.

The point also to consider is that a middle aged man and his father made it down that hill and up again.

It looks well worn too. Why place her in a popular area? Strange.

[KR2tonenow]

-------------
It looks like the hardest part would be to go back up the hill. I believe that the cement bag and the little girl could have been manipulated down this slope with one man and maybe a woman or another man to assist.

True, but can be done. Have you ever walked sideways up or down an incline? This area has been muddied by multiple traffic in the last days but prior to that relatively by the grassy knolls, if you fish alot it is possibly second nature to travel.

Was LE able to get a foot in print before the 2 men found Nevaeh?

[Steely Dan]

Wanting to hang on to a man has been the motive for many kid's demise unfortunately.

What I find interesting is GK says he hadn't seen them for a couple of months. JB says 4 days? She can't call 911, but she can call him. And he appears to be the first person she calls. Why?

They're like con artists. They prey on the weak and needy. I think she was scammed by this guy not for money but access to the child. Their smooth schtick works on the weak and she seems very weak to me.

[lonetraveler]

True, but can be done. Have you ever walked sideways up or down an incline? This area has been muddied by multiple traffic in the last days but prior to that relatively by the grassy knolls, if you fish alot it is possibly second nature to travel.
-------------
OH, I know it can be done. Yes, I've fished all my life, I was just trying to make a point that manipulating the 90 lb bag and body down the hill could definitely be done. I was just noticing that going up the hill, there seems to be only high grass and a few bush type plants and thinking that the plants were the only thing to hold on to to make your way back up the hill. Myself, I would most likely bust my butt, as I have been known to do in the past while going up and down steep hills.

[Kat]

I still find it very curious that Nevaeh was found in the area of Dundee, near Ida Maybee Bridge (you can see the bridge in the background of a picture that Angel who cares posted in the Astro's thread).

A RSO lives on another portion of Ida Maybee Road. Which looks to be about 3 miles from his house. Just putting that out there so we can make a mental note of that.

ETA: Let me clarify~ his home and Nevaeh's gravesite look to be approx 3 miles apart, straight shoot with the exception of one dog leg turn.