Light levels and floor marks

[why_nutt]

Time for another video segment. Check this one out:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/lights.wmv

As you will be able to see, this was from the Bill Kurtis A&E program. The cameraman positioned himself in the southeast corner of the windowless room, in the dark, and then photographed Bill and Dave Williams as they opened the door.

What this clip makes real, which abstract words are not so capable of doing, is just what the light levels were in that room, even when the hallway light was on. I made these two particular frame grabs from the video:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/dooropen1.jpg

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/dooropen2.jpg

Look at the second picture. You will see that when a person is standing in the doorway, there is even less light cast into the room than there is when nobody is standing there. And even when nobody is standing directly in the doorway, there is very little light.

Now, another aspect to what this video reveals comes when the cameraman repositions himself in the doorway of the room, and films from the northwest corner into the southeast. Here is what he sees:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/floormark1.jpg

There is a reference mark on the floor we will use later. Here it is:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/floormark2.jpg

Here is a photo of the blanket JonBenet's body was laying on inside the room.

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/floormark3.jpg

Do you see the reference mark from the second picture? Here, this will help:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/floormark4.jpg

I must say, I had been assuming that JonBenet's body was placed much closer to the door than was true. But this evidence shows how she was really laying not immediately inside the door, but a noticeable distance away in the southeast corner of the room. With the light level so demonstrably low in that part of the room, no wonder Fleet White saw nothing. But even more interesting, what we can see from these facts is that John also, even with the hallway lit up brightly behind him, should not have been able to see her, unless his eyes were immediately able to adapt to both the bright light of the hallway and the intense darkness of the room. Of course, if he turned on the light she would have been visible, but he has been adamant about saying that he opened the door and there she was, right there.

Thoughts?

(Bonus observation: see the item circled in this picture?)

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/floor5.jpg

(That is the same item which appears in this picture.)

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/floor6.jpg

[Nedthan Johns]

now where is the hidden safe photo located in the first two pictures of the original crime scene?

[Nedthan Johns]

now was that the back side of the black duct tape that we see?

[why_nutt]

now where is the hidden safe photo located in the first two pictures of the original crime scene?

The safe, in the numbered crime scene photos, is out of frame on the left side of the picture. See those dark screens? They are leaning against the north wall of the room. The safe is closer to the north wall and the door. In the photos of the lit room from the A&E program, the cameraman was standing with his feet likely right next to the floor safe, and the lens is never tilted down far enough in the video footage to catch it (nor should it be, it is not the cameraman's job to film his own shoes or what is near them).

[popcorn]

Pretty remarkable considering John's eyesight was so compromised by cataracts he couldn't pilot a plane. I hope they took into consideration the time differences for when Fleet checked the room and John. My basement has different light patterns depending on the hour and even season.

[tumble]

This hidden safe in the wine cellar floor, did it contain anything at the night of the crime?

How deep was it?

[trixie]

The police drilled into it but they've never revealed what, if anything, was in the safe.

[Paradox]

I think either John was good at Clue or he had a clue. He knew his wife. He knew where to look. Light or no light.

[tumble]

I think the observations made in this post are very interesting.

JBR was NOT lying close to the door. She would be hard to see without turning the light on.
If JR screamed BEFORE turning the light on this indicates that he KNEW she was there. FW would sure find that strange if it indeed was the case.
It is NOT that strange that FW didn't notice the body under the circumstances if he didn't turn the light on.

[SuperDave]

I think the observations made in this post are very interesting.

JBR was NOT lying close to the door. She would be hard to see without turning the light on.
If JR screamed BEFORE turning the light on this indicates that he KNEW she was there. FW would sure find that strange if it indeed was the case.
It is NOT that strange that FW didn't notice the body under the circumstances if he didn't turn the light on.

Quite correct. PLUS, the switch was in an odd position.

[sharkeyes]

Quite correct. PLUS, the switch was in an odd position.
Ditto.

[Cranberry]

Why Nut am I mistaken or does that last photo linked (with the pic of JBR) have another handwriting sample? "House Paint" with that "a" on the box?

[Eagle1]

Looks like there's three words. Where's the "A"?

Good catch, and what dark thing is hanging from behind her ear and why?
Does her expression say something is being done to her when that picture was taken?

[SuperDave]

Good catch, and what dark thing is hanging from behind her ear and why?
Does her expression say something is being done to her when that picture was taken?

I think that's just a shadow, Eagle1.

Never considered her expression. She does look a little scared, doesn't she?

[Eagle1]

..... She does look a little scared, doesn't she?

I'll say. What could be going on? A photo-shoot, for starters, I guess. Was she apprehensive about the photographer, something he wanted her to do, and alone with him, or what? If I'm on the right track at all, you wouldn't think he'd even shoot such an expression, would you?

He evidently had no idea at the time that she would end up dead and he could become a suspect.

[SuperDave]

"I'll say. What could be going on? A photo-shoot, for starters, I guess. Was she apprehensive about the photographer, something he wanted her to do, and alone with him, or what? If I'm on the right track at all, you wouldn't think he'd even shoot such an expression, would you?"

You're thinking the photographer might be involved?

[Britt]

She looks like a tired pageant princess begging her stage mother to let her take off the damn tiara and red lipstick and go home.

[Eagle1]

Was she apprehensive about the photographer, or what? If I'm on the right track at all, you wouldn't think he'd even shoot such an expression, would you?"

You're thinking the photographer might be involved?

Don't know. And Brit could be right that she's begging her mom to let's go home, the photographer seeing some use for a picture of that.

All I'm saying is why would he want a picture of that?

[trixie]

If I'm not mistaken this picture of Jonbnet was taken the night of the Boulder Christmas Parade where she was Little Miss Christmas and she rode in the parade I think sitting up in a convertible car. Don and Nedra Paugh were keeping Jonbenet this night as Patsy and John and Susan and Glen Stine were on a trip to New York. (Patsy's second trip there that year. The first one was the mother-daughter trip taken a month earlier when she bought the Bloomies.) There is a much better picture of this where you can see the whole car and Jonebnet sitting up on the back of it. Actually it's the same picture someone just cropped it to show her face. I don't know where it would be now though. The better picture I refferred to is also a picture in a frame sitting in the background on a table at Bill McRenolds house taken during an interview he gave.

[SuperDave]

"She looks like a tired pageant princess begging her stage mother to let her take off the damn tiara and red lipstick and go home."

maybe.

"All I'm saying is why would he want a picture of that?"

No idea.

[Britt]

If I'm not mistaken this picture of Jonbnet was taken the night of the Boulder Christmas Parade where she was Little Miss Christmas and she rode in the parade I think sitting up in a convertible car. Don and Nedra Paugh were keeping Jonbenet this night as Patsy and John and Susan and Glen Stine were on a trip to New York. (Patsy's second trip there that year. The first one was the mother-daughter trip taken a month earlier when she bought the Bloomies.) There is a much better picture of this where you can see the whole car and Jonebnet sitting up on the back of it. Actually it's the same picture someone just cropped it to show her face. I don't know where it would be now though. The better picture I refferred to is also a picture in a frame sitting in the background on a table at Bill McRenolds house taken during an interview he gave.
Trixie, thanks for posting the history of that photo. Don and Nedra Paugh were keeping Jonbenet this night as Patsy and John and Susan and Glen Stine were on a trip to New York. Interesting. Maybe the stage mother here was Grandma Nedra. Maybe spending the night with grandma and grandpa was cause for anxiety.

[UKGuy]

I think either John was good at Clue or he had a clue. He knew his wife. He knew where to look. Light or no light.


Paradox,

mmm is that not paradoxical or is he telepathic?


.

[Toltec]

Trixie, thanks for posting the history of that photo. Don and Nedra Paugh were keeping Jonbenet this night as Patsy and John and Susan and Glen Stine were on a trip to New York. Interesting. Maybe the stage mother here was Grandma Nedra. Maybe spending the night with grandma and grandpa was cause for anxiety.

Yesiree...JonBenet spending time with Grandpa Paugh. According to LHP, JonBenet began wetting the bed a month before her death.

[trixie]

Trixie, thanks for posting the history of that photo. Don and Nedra Paugh were keeping Jonbenet this night as Patsy and John and Susan and Glen Stine were on a trip to New York. Interesting. Maybe the stage mother here was Grandma Nedra. Maybe spending the night with grandma and grandpa was cause for anxiety.


You're welcome Britt! She does look kind of anxious in that picture but I imagine she was probably cold and tired. Boulder in December at night riding on the back of a convertable can't be too comfortable. Just the wind on your face would give her rosy cheeks, she sure didn't need all that make-up, IMO!Such is the life of a beauty queen, I guess. They couldn't very well have a Boulder Christmas parade without Little Miss Christmas could they? And yes, I think Nedra WAS the stage mother in all this. I've always thought so.

[SuperDave]

"Yesiree...JonBenet spending time with Grandpa Paugh. According to LHP, JonBenet began wetting the bed a month before her death."

Yeah, isn't that interesting?

[Eagle1]

You're right, that's most interesting. Thanks, Trixie and Britt.

To me JonBenet looks just plain scared, for whatever that's worth. Very scared. And we don't know who she's talking to, with the photographer recording it in a picture. Does it say a thousand words?

I don't think Grandpa would have had the energy or ideas to do all that staging.

So most will say the parents were not in shock at all and could plan and do all that staging, so spur-of-the-moment, SUCH a moment, right?

No mention was made of Grandpa or JAR being in Boulder that night, which I realize doesn't mean they couldn't have been.

[Eagle1]

From Why_Nut's post on page 1, in the LAST picture of several at this link, http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/lights.wmv , we see just Jonbenet's face, from the parade picture where she's on the float. I've lost track of the link to a larger picture.

We're saying the grandparents were keeping JonBenet that night, but didn't Patsy walk alongside the float?

I'm repeating my question from page 1 because I think it could be important,

What do you suppose was being said, by whom, to make JonBenet look fearful, and to make the photographer notice and photograph her reaction?

Anyone know who the photographer was?

[SuperDave]

"I don't think Grandpa would have had the energy or ideas to do all that staging."

I don't think we were suggesting that he was the killer, merely that he might have done something that provided a catalyst for the killing.

"So most will say the parents were not in shock at all and could plan and do all that staging, so spur-of-the-moment, SUCH a moment, right?"

I don't see why it has to be one or the other, Eagle1. You'd be amazed at what a person could do in a crisis.

But to indulge you, I think the shock WAS there, but it did pass and self-preservation took over. Don't forget, they had from a little before 1:00 AM until 5:30 or so. That's plenty of time.

[why_nutt]

A version of the standalone JonBenet picture is this:

http://static.flickr.com/87/209439405_56ef9e8a33.jpg

And the writing on the box in the cellar can be seen at a larger size here:

http://static.flickr.com/68/209439407_8a6085c541_o.jpg

[Seeker]

Thanks for the pix why_nutt, but did they take any from the exterior of the room looking into it without any light as well?

Looking out from a darkend room is one thing, but looking into it is another....

I just wonder how much different it is looking in with only the light illuminating what's in the room from behind someone.

[trixie]

From Why_Nut's post on page 1, in the LAST picture of several at this link, http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/lights.wmv , we see just Jonbenet's face, from the parade picture where she's on the float. I've lost track of the link to a larger picture.

We're saying the grandparents were keeping JonBenet that night, but didn't Patsy walk alongside the float? I'm repeating my question from page 1 because I think it could be important,

What do you suppose was being said, by whom, to make JonBenet look fearful, and to make the photographer notice and photograph her reaction?

Anyone know who the photographer was?

Patsy and John Ramsey were in New York when this picture was taken and not at this parade. I think the float Patsy walked along side of was the Boy Scout float Burke was on and Jonbenet also got to ride on. Grandpa Don Paugh built that float for the Boy Scout parade. Jonbenet rode on it and Patsy walked along beside it.

As for the picture, I don't think Jonbenet looks frightened at all. I think she looks like she's about to ask a question or say something. That gives her face that look, IMO.

[why_nutt]

As for the picture, I don't think Jonbenet looks frightened at all. I think she looks like she's about to ask a question or say something. That gives her face that look, IMO.

In my opinion JonBenet looks like she is very, very cold, which makes sense given that she was not wearing a coat but only a costume cape, as seen being worn in this other photo:

http://static.flickr.com/98/209492053_1be422caa7_o.jpg

and the temperature in Boulder on that day never got above 44 degrees Fahrenheit and dropped to a low of 30 degrees.

[trixie]

I agree with you, she does look cold. That's a really cute picture of her you posted. She was adorable, wasn't she?

[Eagle1]

Okay, so there were two parades JonBenet rode in.

It's a matter of opinion, I guess, and I didn't notice at first, until someone brought it up the other day so I took a closer look.

SD, yes, I know all that, and didn't mean to sound like I disagreed.

I've always felt they were involved in SOMETHING that they and their friends didn't want known.

But what?

[Cranberry]

A version of the standalone JonBenet picture is this:

http://static.flickr.com/87/209439405_56ef9e8a33.jpg

And the writing on the box in the cellar can be seen at a larger size here:

http://static.flickr.com/68/209439407_8a6085c541_o.jpg
Thank you Why Nutt for the enlargement of the box. It does looks like 'House Paint' written on the box. Of course there's no way to know for sure who wrote it on the box, but I find even a small sample of handwriting an interesting study.

[SuperDave]

"SD, yes, I know all that, and didn't mean to sound like I disagreed."

Sometimes I take the things you say as being sarcastic, even when they're not meant to be, Eagle1. You'll have to forgive my hotheaded nature. That's what happens when you're young and have lived the life I've lived.

"She was adorable, wasn't she?"

Sure was. She would have turned 16 on Sunday. God, can you imagine the boys tripping over each other to get near her?

[Eagle1]

"SD, yes, I know all that, and didn't mean to sound like I disagreed." Sometimes I take the things you say as being sarcastic, even when they're not meant to be, Eagle1. You'll have to forgive my hotheaded nature. That's what happens when you're young and have lived the life I've lived.

Yup, we appreciate thoughtful hotheads here, no need to apologize and we older ones never mean to sound sarcastic or that we're out to get you. I'm very glad you joined us, as I've probably already said a few times.

What do you think of the man in Charlevoix allegedly sleeping in JonBenet's bed there and hanging around the gas station badmouthing JR, which may have been another one. What kind of gang could that be, having it in for this family? And what about the walker, the Barnhills thought resembled JAR, the very same evening right after the R's left to go to, I believe, Pasta Jay's and then the Whites'?

This whole thing seems so pre-planned and mapped out, involving possibly quite a few people in quite a few places, one in Waterford, Mi. Depending on who and what they are, isn't it possible they could have either gotten some rings similar to PR's knowing she wore them turned inward or maybe even somehow made her make those marks on JonBenet? Editing to add that the crescent shape inside the abrasions could probably be made by the edge of a ring, right? The way she wore her rings was certainly notable.

I can picture stagers writing that into the plan just as well as I can picture her actually doing it to JBR for lipping off or something. Which she wasn't old enough to do very much. It just seems like too many others are involved, for appearances to be taken at face value. As always in my statement, JMHO for now.

[SuperDave]

"What do you think of the man in Charlevoix allegedly sleeping in JonBenet's bed there and hanging around the gas station badmouthing JR, which may have been another one. What kind of gang could that be, having it in for this family? And what about the walker, the Barnhills thought resembled JAR, the very same evening right after the R's left to go to, I believe, Pasta Jay's and then the Whites'?"

I'd have to know more about them first. I've never even heard that "Charlevoix" biz before.

"I can picture stagers writing that into the plan just as well as I can picture her actually doing it to JBR for lipping off or something. Which she wasn't old enough to do very much."

Oh! Don't say that, Eagle1! Don't say that, my friend! I know plenty of kids younger than six with smart mouths on 'em! Myself included! And, from what I've read, JB could be VERY bratty at times. Parents have killed kids for less, you know!

(BTW, I'm not sure that's what happened. Like I said, there's one scenario that fits more puzzle pieces than any other.)

[Eagle1]

You know I'm just kidding but "So. You were a smart mouth kid, huh?"

Well, okay, maybe so. She did kick Patsy one time! I forget the circumstances. Maybe someone else remembers. You're sometimes right and I admit it. My five must not have been as bratty at that age or maybe it's too long ago to remember.

About the trespasser in Charlevoix, that's about all that I know of that was discussed in the forums. Two housekeepers were there cleaning up after a party, and saw his very neat suitcase and a pair of cowboy boots. I don't know if he was hiding in a bathroom, having heard them coming, or under the bed, or if they even looked for him. They phoned the Ramseys, I seem to remember. Point is just that there were people not respecting the Rs' boundaries all over. Camper told us about the informant in SE Michigan, nowhere near Charlevoix, Waterford near Pontiac, near where Jimmy Hoffa disappeared, who, Globe alleged, claimed JAR tried to hire him to arrange a boating accident for JonBenet. I don't think anyone else agrees with my hunch that if any of this is true, because he lied about half the time, they said, this JAR just may have been the same one the Barnhills saw. But why Waterford, Mi.? I feel we need your opinion on this, and thanks in advance. Please give it a little thought.

At another forum, I think it was "B" who lives in Charlevoix who said a strange guy was seen running across a lawn, maybe the back of the Rs' property, to a road to thumb a ride when a van was coming, driven by a cancer patient who's died since then. A ride to an airport? But there isn't one in Charlevoix? Memory's fading, it's been so long. I don't know if this was the same stranger who hung around the gas station for a while, or whether he may have also been the one who slept in JonBenet's bed, and, what the heck, maybe also left the duffle bag in the crawl space, tho' the Barnhills didn't mention his carrying one. He could have made another trip. I just need someone to try to pin the duffle bag on, nothing definite. There could have been other "unAmerican activities" against the R's that we haven't even heard of. Weren't there some Barbie dolls on the lawn, and some intimidation at ST's house and Arndt's house? If not for all that, I could believe PR was confessing after all if she really said, "Some things in life you just can't take back." Maybe she meant her whole life, just a blanket thing in case she'd ever offended anyone. It's been said she never badmouthed anyone. "B" is at Jameson's.

[SuperDave]

"So. You were a smart mouth kid, huh?"

Always have been! Always will be!

"Well, okay, maybe so. She did kick Patsy one time! I forget the circumstances. Maybe someone else remembers."

yeah, I remember. She was tired from a whole day's pageant activity and Patsy wanted her to keep going. Worse, Patsy wanted her to wear these god-awful tight shoes. Sound like a kid who enjoyed it? Well, maybe that's not fair. Anyone can have an off-day.

"Camper told us about the informant in SE Michigan, nowhere near Charlevoix, Waterford near Pontiac, near where Jimmy Hoffa disappeared, who, Globe alleged, claimed JAR tried to hire him to arrange a boating accident for JonBenet. I don't think anyone else agrees with my hunch that if any of this is true, because he lied about half the time, they said, this JAR just may have been the same one the Barnhills saw."

Hmm. That only opens a bigger question: what was JAR's motive?

"Weren't there some Barbie dolls on the lawn, and some intimidation at ST's house and Arndt's house?"

That's right, but I think those were isolated incidents.

"If not for all that, I could believe PR was confessing after all if she really said, "Some things in life you just can't take back." Maybe she meant her whole life, just a blanket thing in case she'd ever offended anyone."

Well, I've made it clear what I think it meant. Not that it matters, now.

[Eagle1]

"Hmm. That only opens a bigger question: what was JAR's motive?"

Ans. Not the real JAR; an imposter, possibly a lookalike. Motive? You tell me. And motive of the strange guy or guys in Charlevoix, same ans.

You don't suppose Globe was bribed by someone to publish a false story, and that the poster who lives in Charlevoix made up that story? We'll probably never know. I'm asking Camper this question too.

It's no skin off my teeth if Patsy did it, but then why all these others who've been mentioned, with whatever motives? And you said a mouthfull about every one of the family's friends being eccentric. And how!

I keep wondering what one thing it was that they had in common.

[SuperDave]

"Ans. Not the real JAR; an imposter, possibly a lookalike. Motive? You tell me. And motive of the strange guy or guys in Charlevoix, same ans."

Well, you seem to be big on revenge. I certainly can hold a grudge with the best of them.

"You don't suppose Globe was bribed by someone to publish a false story, and that the poster who lives in Charlevoix made up that story? We'll probably never know. I'm asking Camper this question too."

Couldn't tell you. Although, there was a story they put out about a photo of JB in the Charlevoix house. Supposedly, it showed JB, naked, with one of those feathered boas around her neck. To hear the story, John and Patsy were PROUD of that picture! "Isn't she beautiful," and all that. I have strong doubts about the veracity of that story.

There was another like that that I know about, but I'll get to that later.

"It's no skin off my teeth if Patsy did it, but then why all these others who've been mentioned, with whatever motives? And you said a mouthfull about every one of the family's friends being eccentric. And how!"

Yeah, to say nothing of themselves!

"I keep wondering what one thing it was that they had in common."

An interesting question.

[Eagle1]

[QUOTE=SuperDave.........

"I keep wondering what one thing it was that they had in common."

An interesting question.[/QUOTE]

It's so interesting to me that maybe I thought of starting a thread but not sure many others would be interested. Thanks for acknowledging the question. (What in the world did the "friends" have in common? The same brand of eccentricity? And what could that have been? Do we know some of their main interests?

1. McReynolds' - University and Pagan Cultism ? (notches on harp, dead kids)
2. Two or three of them, the university, (JAR, Nathan I., & a former student)
3. Both Patsy and Janet McReynolds, writing,
4. FW, don't know, besides business
5. JR, likewise, Computers and Lockheed, airplanes
6. FW's visitors from Ca., Kali cult
7. LHP, housekeeper, main interest money? etc.

Weren't there nearly a hundred people there? Can anyone name more and remind us what we know about them? There had been a party on Dec. 12 for church people. Then this larger one on the 23rd. Just casual acquaintances or was there something that none of them especially want known? What could it be?