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Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 12:31 AM
Could be something like "loan shark" rates? Are you going in that direction? The lot of them had cars from him and couldn't pay their payments? Group getting revenge? Repossion deal? I guess now would be the day and age people would be loansharked with the credit crunch etc.. And what better way to make money to feed those sweet kids - might be a push for me :waitasec::blowkiss:

Again, being careful not to assert this as truth, I did some searches and it's big business to steal cars (especially SUVs and luxury cars) do a job on the VIN and registration and sell them in the southeast.

They recently sentenced 20 people in a ring working Georgia and Florida:
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/251/story/764546.html

If you were going to sell stolen cars, you'd need someone to steal them and someone to buy them. You'd need to handle the financing via "Buy here-Pay here" and, I imagine you'd have to have a repo squad too. Is anyone local? Can you tell us anything about Purshu Auto to put this avenue to rest?

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:31 AM
Something odd......Was looking at the myspace page pics. Uncle Lonnie that he talks about and says knows all about it (daughter and ex thing) He list his name on pics as Lonnie Pockets..........Look at the pic of him in uniform in Mosul, Iraq..........what does the name on the uniform say????????

Do you have a link handy? I've closed out all the myspace pages. Thanks!

LotsaLatte
07-13-2009, 12:33 AM
Not to imply that all auto sales and/or financing businesses have - less than kind intentions but I have first hand experience and it can be an ugly business. I mean really ugly.

JustMe42
07-13-2009, 12:33 AM
I looked earlier. Wasn't it "Sm***?" not sure if I can put the whole name in???
Also, maybe "pockets" is like "Joey the Bull" - Costa Nostra, ya' know?? Pockets this, pockets that??

Blew it up......Its Smith

babycat
07-13-2009, 12:44 AM
Wow. I'm floored. This couple lives only about 2 hours from me, and I remember seeing them on a Mobile news report last year, if I remember correctly. My boyfriend and I were commenting on what wonderful people they must be to take care of all of those children. Then he called me Friday to tell me what had happened. So sad:(


Lindadanette, I'm absolutely floored at how fast you had nailed everything down. Everyone here has done such a great job so far sorting things out.

I don't know what to say about the myspace pages, but it does appear that those "friends" are made up, and obviously this man had some issues.

This whole case has my head spinning...

wondering how it will all unfold, and feeling so sorry for those children...

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 12:45 AM
Lonnie Allen Smith and Lonnie Douglas Smith, both in their 30's. http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml.asp?ucase_id=61108720

Both have the same kind of records that LPatricks other associates hoave, drugs and bad tempers.

ETA - I just tried to follow this and it just hits on one traffic charge. You have to go back to search and put their names in to see all of their crimes.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:45 AM
Here is a link to tonight's presser if anyone missed it. I hope the link works.

ETA: scratch that, heavy traffic or something. The video won't start.

pferrin
07-13-2009, 12:54 AM
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateReleases/detail.asp?Bookmark=3&From=list&SessionID=270792139


wayne coldiron mugshot from a while back

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:57 AM
LPG Jr isn't booked yet.

http://66.210.33.206/oiscript/oiget.asp?name=coldiron&alias=&ACTION=+++++++++++++++++++++++Search++++++++++++++ +++++++++

lucky181
07-13-2009, 12:59 AM
I wonder if any of the security cameras in the home had sound. If LE was watching hours of footage and the perps were only in the house 9 min, maybe something was picked up via telephone calls or conversation.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 01:05 AM
They're a bunch of "clean cut" gangsters - IMHO, that in and of itself is a red flag for some kind of trafficking. They have drugs and violence in common (except for LPatrick - that's the strange part - he doesn't have any domestic violence or assault charges that I can find). But every single person he's associated with does - this is a mean crew.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:06 AM
Is this the right county to search for Coldiron when he is booked?

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/jail.aspx

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 01:08 AM
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=468734116&blogId=498784460

He says this is from Lonnie but it sounds like his ranting.It was posted 7/6 says I am doing alot of things to get you back. I am working very hard to see good things happen for us.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:16 AM
I was searching for the wrong inmate in the wrong county. Sheesh.

Day laborer Wayne Coldiron turned himself in to Escambia County authorities and Leonard P. Gonzalez Jr. was arrested in neighboring Santa Rosa County, Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan said.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:19 AM
Here is LPG Jr's booking info and mugshot. If the link doesn't take you to his page just enter his name and search both current and released inmates.

He looks pleased. I think the guy is insane.

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/jail.aspx

VespaElf
07-13-2009, 01:20 AM
I am on pins & needles waiting for more info on this!!!!!!!!
This case is so tragic at its core & Im so sad for the family but I just cant help myself getting caught up in the backstory & getting anxious for more info to come out!
Id love to hear from "the ex" & hear her side of 'Bella's' story!
Linda-your sleuthing has been so amazing.........think you can dig that up for us?:)

noZme
07-13-2009, 01:22 AM
My town was shocked to learn a respected couple pillars of the community, active in church, civil & social circles were busted for a variety of felonies. They had businesses that "fed off each other" & were found to have nefarious dealings between the companies & other criminal activties that reached to another continent. They were one of the most well-to-do families in town. I know 3 generations of them....nice people, good people. Generous donations & charitable work can mask other qualities....... just saying .... relating a little about my town.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:23 AM
Vespa, I'm praying for probable cause statements tomorrow. I bet the judge seals them though.

8 1/2 hours till the courts open.......

dillydo
07-13-2009, 01:24 AM
Hi, I've been sitting here catching up on all the posts on her for about 3 hrs now! whew! I live here in Beulah about 2 miles from the Billings home.
Granny P mentioned that "Byrd" was a common surname, but not a common given name; I agree. People in this area of the country often name their children after a family surname, i.e. Byrd.
Byrd Billings was his legal name, but everyone around here knew him as "Bud". Just thought I'd share that; could be of interest.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:26 AM
dillydo. Welcome to WS!

noZme
07-13-2009, 01:33 AM
Welcome to WS dillydo!

Tell us about the Billings' businesses & activities other than their work with fostering & adoption. Do they have a large extended family?

As a local, had you heard of the suspects before this? Are there other observations you can share? What is the local scuttlebutt?

Baxter
07-13-2009, 01:37 AM
Here is LPG Jr's booking info and mugshot. If the link doesn't take you to his page just enter his name and search both current and released inmates.

He looks pleased. I think the guy is insane.

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/jail.aspx

I can't find his mug shot in your link.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 01:40 AM
OK - I just googled the address for Purshu Auto and it's not looking too good. Sort of behind or next to an auto repair and across the street from a pawn shop :eek:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&q=2719+N+Pace+Blvd+Pensacola,+FL+32505&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=2434457330489126609&li=lmd

It looks like there are more cars at Worldco?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2107+SAINT+MARY+AVE+PENSACOLA,+FL&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=IMdaSqKuM8uptgfJ9LCaCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1

I can't seem to get an exact for either address.

cleo612
07-13-2009, 01:41 AM
Here is LPG Jr's booking info and mugshot. If the link doesn't take you to his page just enter his name and search both current and released inmates.

He looks pleased. I think the guy is insane.

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/jail.aspx


Suzi--it looks like he has been released? Or maybe I am reading it wrong. Can you check it out for us, again, please?

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:42 AM
I can't find his mug shot in your link.

Lets try this one.

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/ViewImageFull.aspx?ecsoid=SRSO01MNI001672

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 01:43 AM
Is this the right county to search for Coldiron when he is booked?

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/jail.aspx

They said he'll be booked in Santa Rosa and after he appears and the Magistrate determines probable cause - he'll go to Escambia

Woops that's Gonzalez.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:44 AM
Suzi--it looks like ha has been released? Or maybe I am reading it wrong. Can you check it out for us, again, please?

I'm hoping like heck that is a mistake!

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 01:46 AM
Lets try this one.

http://portal.srso.net/smartweb/ViewImageFull.aspx?ecsoid=SRSO01MNI001672

Your right he does look insane.Thank you I could not get his pic either.

dillydo
07-13-2009, 01:49 AM
I have never heard of these suspects before today. Local speculation is all over the chart; There has only been one person that I've heard speculate that this was a business related retaliation.
The Billings are well know here in P'cola. I have never heard anything negative about them; ever. They are well loved by the community.
Just FYI, "Beulah" is the community where we live, but out physical addresses are "Pensacola, FL 32526".
I know this sounds crazy, but today my friend and I drove by the street where the red van was found...its not far from where I work! We were headed out to do some shopping and its literally right on the way. Nothing suspicious was going on; mostly run down homes, trailers, a few older homes that the older owners are trying their best to maintain. My husband who is a native of Pensascola explained to me that this was once a fairly decent part of town. Nothing I could see except for one guy out mowing his lawn!
I know all this info may not help too much but I'm more than happy to try and "paint a clearer picture" of this from a locals standpoint! I'm now anxiously waiting for news tomorrow!

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 01:50 AM
Linda, did we ever figure out who Alan Guirguis is?

cleo612
07-13-2009, 01:53 AM
Does anyone have the link to the national database for registered SO's? It is "family something or other." Thank you in advance.

cleo612
07-13-2009, 01:54 AM
Suzi, isn't he a PI?

cleo612
07-13-2009, 01:57 AM
3 arrested in slaying of Florida couple; 2 charged with murder


PENSACOLA, Florida (CNN) -- Three suspects are in custody, including two who face murder charges, in what the local sheriff called a "multifaceted" investigation into the killings of a Gulf Coast couple known for adopting special-needs children.

Byrd and Melanie Billings were found shot to death Thursday night in their home near Pensacola, Florida.

Wayne Coldiron and Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr. are facing murder charges in the Thursday night shooting deaths of Byrd and Melanie Billings, said Sheriff David Morgan of Escambia County.

Coldiron, 41, surrendered to investigators Sunday and Gonzalez was arrested in neighboring Santa Rosa County on Sunday evening, Morgan said.

Gonzalez's age was not immediately released.

The sheriff was in the middle of announcing Coldiron's arrest to reporters when detectives informed him that Gonzalez was in custody.

Morgan said the investigation has become "a window into something bigger," with multiple motives and multiple suspects. But he released few details.

"I know this sounds like we're talking in circles," he told reporters earlier Sunday. "But at this point, we cannot release that information, because those circles have not been completed."

In addition, Gonzalez's father, Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Sr., 56, has been arrested on evidence-tampering charges.

The elder Gonzalez is accused of trying to disguise a red Dodge van that surveillance cameras captured leaving the slain couple's home.

More at link...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/12/florida.couple.slain/index.html

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 01:58 AM
My town was shocked to learn a respected couple pillars of the community, active in church, civil & social circles were busted for a variety of felonies. They had businesses that "fed off each other" & were found to have nefarious dealings between the companies & other criminal activties that reached to another continent. They were one of the most well-to-do families in town. I know 3 generations of them....nice people, good people. Generous donations & charitable work can mask other qualities....... just saying .... relating a little about my town.

OH Boy - You really hit a chord there. I was visiting WS to post on the Sheri Coleman Murders because my son knew her in high school. I used to be a Joyce Meyer fan until she started spending too much time justifying her riches, face lifts, properties, cars, jets, boats, vacation getaways etc.

You start digging around in there and you find the very same thing you just described - a bunch of wagons circled to keep the money in and nosy investigators out. It's terrible, really, when the presentation is so appealing, but the fruit is rotten to the core. Because these people are doing really good works too. It seems to be a trend in certain circles.

I don't throw stones, I just look to see what's hiding under them :eek:

ETA - I am NOT saying this is true of the Billings, only that history has given me a reason to check out possible motives. (So please don't burn me at the stake :))

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 02:01 AM
Suzi, isn't he a PI?

I may have missed that. I thought that was just a theory because he is the one who requested the divorce papers in June?

SeekingJana
07-13-2009, 02:03 AM
As a person who grew up in the state which seems to have part of the focus of the investigation of known suspects, I remember this:
There used to be a HUGE car fraud network operating across the state lines FROM Florida into both Georgia and Alabama.
The things I know that were done were odometer rollback tampering, title " cleaning up" such as selling a Florida flood damage totaled car with a bogus clean title in either GA or AL, and also many other totaled or undesirable cars like those from a chop shop with " whitewashed" titles coming up from Florida. I believe that in many cases, it was a well- organized and financed network of fraud.

Tons of car auctions were held at least weekly in Georgia and Alabama involving cars which were trucked in from northern Florida, with their origins all over Florida. I knew someone who wholesaled cars who went to the auctions and basically if it looked good on the surface and was a hot selling model, it didn't matter if the thing had set in the Everglades with a gator for 6 months, as long as it had a title, it was purchased if the price was right. And the price was right most of the time because of these shoddy factors.

I don't know if the practices and negative impressions have stopped or not, but when I lived in the part of the country embroiled in this apparently complex crime, one of the main red flags against purchasing a used car, even if low mileage and supposedly " clean" was if the VIN had been titled/ registered in Florida.

People used to ask about two areas of the country when purchasing a used car ( prior to internet services like Carfax) - FL because of the water/ storm damage frauds and " Up North" because Southerners were typically leery of cars which had been exposed to Northern ice and sleet and the road chemicals. Typically, the Northern cars were viewed as " rust magnets". These attitudes are still present in some areas without large dependable car dealerships offering certified pre-owned car sales.

Maybe some of the crimes involve not money laundering but car laundering.

Jana

cleo612
07-13-2009, 02:03 AM
Suzi,

Linda posted this information at the following link.




Alan Guirguis - Hire a Hero? Located in Sarasota.

http://www.hireahero.org/person/3699...n-Guirguis.htm (http://www.hireahero.org/person/3699006/Alan-Guirguis.htm)


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death

And this:

And, again, where did he get those pictures of his daughter (if it is indeed his daughter) if he hasn't been able to see her in 10 years? Stealth. The sheriff as much as said so. He's a black belt. Why would he say (in his MS blog) his M-I-L told him to hire a private detective? BTW - I think they may have in June - I've got to find that info on A**** Guirguis again.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 02:08 AM
Suzi,

Linda posted this information at the following link.



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3952259&postcount=178)

Thanks. I did see that, but I didn't see where he is a PI. It does sound like he might have been.

cleo612
07-13-2009, 02:12 AM
I just checked the Florida and Georgia State Licensing websites for Private Investigators and did not see Guirguis listed.

I tried to find a similar website for Alabama, but could not locate one.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 02:13 AM
If you page gown on this link - there's a picture of him

http://tinkerstewart.com/c99.htm

And then this picture on Lpatricks Myspace looks like it could be him too. . .

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=468734116&albumID=667285&imageID=3181242

That's why I was wondering where he came from!?!

I imagine we'll hear alot more from the Herks in the next couple of days! Especially if there's a media maven scoping WS for the MySpace story!!!!!! This one is as weird as it gets and I don't think we've got there yet.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 02:23 AM
You know, if you look at his pictures, he didn't "make up" his family. . . they are real and beautiful little boys who look just like him. I think he has that narcissist trait that can't stand something being taken away from him. He was real busy making babies and staying sober (and seemingly doing ok at it) until June. Did he fall off the wagon or stop taking his meds? Something happened to "trigger" him. He says that his ex-wife remarried, I wonder when? (I would think in 2003 since that's when she pulled a copy of the divorce)

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=468734116&albumId=667285

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 02:33 AM
You know, if you look at his pictures, he didn't "make up" his family. . . they are real and beautiful little boys who look just like him. I think he has that narcissist trait that can't stand something being taken away from him. He was real busy making babies and staying sober (and seemingly doing ok at it) until June. Did he fall off the wagon or stop taking his meds? Something happened to "trigger" him. He says that his ex-wife remarried, I wonder when? (I would think in 2003 since that's when she pulled a copy of the divorce)

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=468734116&albumId=667285

It might have been his grandmothers death.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 02:36 AM
Oh my goodness, I've got to get some sleep or I'll be useless for the rest of the day!
I wonder what the next few hours will bring? I hope to read all about it (later) this morning :) Good night all.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 02:40 AM
It might have been his grandmothers death.

I think that definitely started his decline. He and His uncle both make remarks about how some in the family have dealt with her passing and I read what his aunt wrote in her obituary guest book and it shocked me. She's the one who's the executor too. Maybe he was hoping for $ from her estate to help his cause?

JustMe42
07-13-2009, 02:41 AM
I would really love to find out who Guirguis is and why he got the copy of divorce. I think finding that out will say alot. The myspace activity and all was in June. He seemed to really get busy in June. And........divorced after, what, five yrs, then Guirguis gets a copy of his divorce papers at the same time in June??????

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 02:42 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

comments by curious 79 seems like they know LP
Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr. changed his name a few years ago. His old name is Patrick Richmond Poff

noZme
07-13-2009, 02:44 AM
I keep coming back to this: Sheriff Morgan said "numerous federal agencies" and law enforcement agencies in other states are involved in the case. He said suspects are being sought in other states..... humdinger... movie script.

If the feds are investigating, does that mean this could have ties to a terrorist group, illegal arms trading or some other subversive faction? Lindanette, I think, mentioned the clean-cut appearance of some of the characters... skin-heads possibly?

2:30 Eastern time & there are 84 of us still reading here... only 15 members. Why don't you other 69, sign up & join the discussion? WS is like AmEx, membership has it's privileges.

Lindadanett can you post a link to that guestbook?

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 02:45 AM
I think that definitely started his decline. He and His uncle both make remarks about how some in the family have dealt with her passing and I read what his aunt wrote in her obituary guest book and it shocked me. She's the one who's the executor too. Maybe he was hoping for $ from her estate to help his cause?

Boy you sure have been looking everywhere LOL it gets addicting! Money is the root of all evil.

cleo612
07-13-2009, 02:46 AM
I think that definitely started his decline. He and His uncle both make remarks about how some in the family have dealt with her passing and I read what his aunt wrote in her obituary guest book and it shocked me. She's the one who's the executor too. Maybe he was hoping for $ from her estate to help his cause?


Linda, I must have missed seeing the obituary guestbook. Do you have a link to this please? Thanks very much in advance!

cleo612
07-13-2009, 02:50 AM
Doesn't it seem incredibly ironic that LPGJr has so many posts and blogs about wanting to bring his "missing" daughter, Bella, back home to live with him, yet he goes out and commits first-degree murder--and essentially negates any possible reconciliation with his daughter?

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 02:53 AM
Agghhh

ETA ****Not at you guys - I was already looking it up again before you asked - a sleuther's gotta link!

Here's the obituary guest book. Lpatrick's entry is in the first page and will make you want to run to the bathroom and vomit under the circumstances.

Here's the one I was talking about:

July 01, 2009 To the best Mother in the world... You my Darlin will be missed forever... But now you are in Heaven with all your loved ones that you missed so much... No more Alzheimer's and no more pain... I wouldn't take anything for doing all that I have done for you especially in the last 3 years... I love and miss you Mama... Hugs and Kisses "Sweetpea"... Your Baby Girl Regina...
~
Regina Gonzalez McCartney,
Pensacola, Florida

Wow - that's a mixed message :eek:

http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookID=8242171409273&page=2

OK, moving away from the keyboard now, and rubbing my weary eyes. ZZZZZZZZZ

JustMe42
07-13-2009, 02:55 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

comments by curious 79 seems like they know LP
Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr. changed his name a few years ago. His old name is Patrick Richmond Poff

Looks like him....

cleo612
07-13-2009, 02:55 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

comments by curious 79 seems like they know LP
Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr. changed his name a few years ago. His old name is Patrick Richmond Poff


Check out this link--it almost seems to confirm this information. Note that his first wife's name was Katie (this would be Bella's mother).

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Gulf-Breeze/women-against-rape-violence-inc-6421265.aspx

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 02:57 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

(snips)
Although Morgan did not mention it at the news conference, Gonzalez Sr.'s arrest report says he admitted to driving the alleged assailants to and from the home of Byrd and Melanie Billings.
Morgan said Gonzalez Sr. is believed to have repainted the murder suspects' van, which was recorded by home surveillance tape as it traveled down the long driveway to the Billingses' large and isolated home on Mobile Highway.
But Gonzalez Sr. also told investigators that he drove the van that held his son, Coldiron and "several" other men whose names he could not supply. He has not yet been charged in connection with those activities.

The arrest report of Gonzalez Sr. says the surveillance video shows three armed, masked people enter the Billings home. Two doors into the residence appeared to have been forced open.
Two of the suspects appeared to be carrying long guns. Nine-millimeter shell casings were recovered during the investigation, the arrest report says.

Gonzalez Sr. told investigators he stayed in the van while the other passengers committed what he referred to as a robbery. Morgan has refused to say whether anything was taken during the home invasion.

The elder Gonzalez said he was not sure who shot the victims but said his son and Coldiron had entered the residence armed with handguns, according to the report.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 03:01 AM
Doesn't it seem incredibly ironic that LPGJr has so many posts and blogs about wanting to bring his "missing" daughter, Bella, back home to live with him, yet he goes out and commits first-degree murder--and essentially negates any possible reconciliation with his daughter?

Yah, and criminally insane. I mean if ever I thought someone is nuts, it's this guy. My first thought was, "Why doesn't he just petition the court for visitation enforcement? There's no record of any abuse and, by the way, what in the hell was he doing in Costa Rica, huh?

There is so much going on here that it's like Alice down the rabbit hole!

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:01 AM
Checked guest book third page was the name Terri Poff she owns a karate school http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_h4v2n5

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 03:01 AM
Family news conference

A spokesperson for Byrd and Melanie Billings' family plans to speak at a news conference at 6:30 a.m. today at the law office of Pensacola attorney Crystal Spencer. Check pnj.com for updates.

cleo612
07-13-2009, 03:02 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

comments by curious 79 seems like they know LP
Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr. changed his name a few years ago. His old name is Patrick Richmond Poff


Wow, there is a LOT of information in this 3-page article.

Paraphrased:

LPGSr. admitted to driving the van to the Billings' home. He also said that there were "several other men" in the van. Three men entered the residence wearing masks. Coldiron and LPGJr. were carrying handguns. Two doors into the residence appeared to have been forced open.
Two of the suspects appeared to be carrying long guns. Nine-millimeter shell casings were recovered during the investigation, the arrest report says

ETA:
Sorry, I see that Suzi already posted this information. I will leave this up so as not to confuse the thread. Gosh, Suzi, you are speedy! :-)

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 03:03 AM
Looks like him....

Jeeez - Lpatrick looks like a mobster in that picture - I wonder if they're using that one on purpose?

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:08 AM
I do not understand him first being a poff, was he illegitimate or adopted and is Terri a sister or a mom.This case is gonna give us all alot of sleepless nights.

cleo612
07-13-2009, 03:08 AM
Excerpt:



Million-dollar bonds

Gonzalez Jr., who's known as "Little Poff," was being held in Santa Rosa County Jail on Sunday night. His bond was set at $1 million.
Coldiron and Gonzalez Sr. were in Escambia County Jail. Coldiron has a $1 million bond and Gonzalez Sr. has a $250,000 bond.
Gonzalez Jr. has an extensive criminal history, Morgan said. Previous charges against him include home invasion and battery with a firearm.
Gonzalez Sr. has gotten into trouble over the years for numerous criminal traffic infractions, including driving under the influence and driving without a license. He has also been charged with misdemeanor drug possession and writing worthless checks.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:12 AM
Poff was his stepfathers name.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 03:16 AM
Patrick Richmond Poff - Well, and there's the violence. Now I can say that he's psychotic. I wonder if he has a mental health record?

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml.asp?ucase_id=15205678

cleo612
07-13-2009, 03:16 AM
It is HIGHLY unusual for a convicted felon to be allowed to change his name. Most courts will not allow it as it can be confusing to other law enforcement agencies. One of the first questions that is asked on the application (in my state) for change of name is whether or not you have any criminal history.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 03:18 AM
Booking info for Wayne Coldiron. Picture will not open for me.

http://66.210.33.206/oiscript/oiget.asp?name=coldiron&alias=&ACTION=+++++++++++++++++++++++Search++++++++++++++ +++++++++

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 03:18 AM
"Little Poff" - Again, sounds like a mobster. No wonder they say it's like Hollywood. I bet there's a crime syndicate waiting to be uncovered. The sheriff said "Multiple Motives".

cleo612
07-13-2009, 03:19 AM
Patrick Richmond Poff - Well, and there's the violence. Now I can say that he's psychotic. I wonder if he has a mental health record?

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml.asp?ucase_id=15205678

I can't get this to open up. It is stalled or something.

ETA: I finally got through, but I had to go back to the main website and then put his name in.

RJA00
07-13-2009, 03:19 AM
Also here in TN when you adopt a child, if that child recieved ss disability, once you adopt that child and start receiving adoption assistance, that SSI disability is automatically stopped. My daughter has heart surgery as an ainfant and was receiving ssi. However once we adopted her, and started getting AA, the ssi stopped. She does retain her health insurance.





not all state adoptions qualify for assistance. we adopted are son through the state of tn and we did not qualify for assistance

I was told in tn unless you adopt siblings are if there special needs
i got to keep his insurance.
and becouse of his past, if he anything comes up in the future i can reapply for assistance, not that i ever will though.

we tried too for over 10 years, it was a blessing for us becouse we would of never been able to adopt any other way.

state pays for the adoption, reg adoption would of been something we could of never afforded

god wanted us to be landon parents

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:21 AM
Booking info for Wayne Coldiron. Picture will not open for me.

http://66.210.33.206/oiscript/oiget.asp?name=coldiron&alias=&ACTION=+++++++++++++++++++++++Search++++++++++++++ +++++++++

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Try this link scroll down and look to the right.

RJA00
07-13-2009, 03:22 AM
that is incorrect, it is UP to $10K (depends on how much your adoption costs) and it's a one time thing. It will help subside the cost of adoption which can go in the upwards of $20K. Depending on the situation. If they adopted from the state, they usually do not pay an adoption fee therefore would not be entitled to the adoption credit.

I have 2 kids too and that's enough! Sometimes I can't handle them! They have tons of energy I wish I had.

that is true but, if my son had been special needs I would of got the adoption credit on my taxes even though i didnt pay for the adoption

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 03:23 AM
"Little Poff" - Again, sounds like a mobster. No wonder they say it's like Hollywood. I bet there's a crime syndicate waiting to be uncovered. The sheriff said "Multiple Motives".

I guess the people, who gave that award to him and his wife recognizing the great work the Gonzalez' have done for the community, must have eggs on their faces.....:rolleyes:

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 03:25 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Try this link scroll down and look to the right.

All I'm seeing is sidebar notes. :(

cleo612
07-13-2009, 03:27 AM
Is any one able to pull up the court records for the Poff listings? I want to see what the dispositions of the cases were, and especially if he was incarcerated in prison for any of those offenses.



OT: I absolutely MUST go to sleep. I'll be back in a couple of hours. Hope you all have a great night sleuthing!

JustMe42
07-13-2009, 03:27 AM
Said he was released from custody in 12/97. Then he and his wife Katie got a license to open up a business on 6/98 called Women Against Rape & Violence, Inc.

LINKS http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateReleases/detail.asp?Bookmark=1&From=list&SessionID=270794728 LOOK AT BOTTOM FOR RELEASE

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Gulf-Breeze/women-against-rape-violence-inc-6421265.aspx FOR THEIR COMPANY

cleo612
07-13-2009, 03:28 AM
All I'm seeing is sidebar notes. :(


Suzi, you can see his picture here. It is on the far right side of the page, right under the video box.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:31 AM
All I'm seeing is sidebar notes. :(

pic is under the little screen where you can watch press conference.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 03:33 AM
Thanks guys, the pics finally showed up. Either my computer is tired or PNJ is suffering from heavy traffic. On that note, I'm going to bed. Be back in a few hours.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:34 AM
Night All I am going to bed too.See you in a couple of hours if not sooner lol.

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 03:36 AM
He's got records in Escambia -

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml_search.asp?ulname=poff&ufname=patrick&ucasetype2=&ucase=&ucit=&ufromdate=&daterange=0&ucasetype=&uagencynbr=&uagencytype=

I can't get it to open for specifics yet - the site must be getting pounded!

Midwest MOM
07-13-2009, 03:38 AM
when I was researching Gloria Gonzalez in the anthony case, I recall a relationship to a leonard gonzalez?? That would be a humdinger LOL (isnt that what le said) I am going to go research my notes and see what I can find- my eyes are burning right now- great job Everyone.

JustMe42
07-13-2009, 03:53 AM
The Billings were said to be wealthy and generous. I wonder if they ever donated to lg,jr and Katies nonprofit company Women Against Rape and Violence, Inc. I read that some of the kids they adopted had been sexually abused.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 03:55 AM
I wanted to reply to this earlier, but had to wait a few hours for the acceptance to the board.

So what's with the "hours" of video tape LE viewed that was helpful? These guys were only in the house 9 minutes.

The hours of videotape would be "x" number of cameras recording for "y" number of minutes or hours (depending on the system) = a LOT of video to go through. The house had 9 bedrooms + the outside camera(s) + presumably the living room, back yard, etc.

I'd guess they recorded everything digitally on a 24 hour loop (like most businesses do). How many days back that could be accessed is dependent on the system set up.

I'm sure once they saw the actual crime, they knew WHEN it happened, but needed to see if they could find any other information/evidence leading up to the actual crimes.

Even if you're rewinding it in a fast rewind mode, that's a lot of time and effort.

For those who have asked why all the cameras: 1) security and ability to monitor the family and make sure everyone is safe in a huge home with a large family -- instead of just an audible baby monitor in a room, they could quickly SEE what was going on and 2) evidence against claims by a parent whose child was adopted out who might say the children are abused or neglected.

BTW to all: thanks for the abundance of information discovered and put out. It's amazing what's been found so far.

For those who ask why the "media" isn't saying much: 1) the PNJ isn't the best of "investigative reporting" newspapers -- they tend to just quote the press release or rewrite an offense report (poorly at times, also); 2 )the other media outlets are using the PNJ's stories as an "Associated Press" story and 3) the less information the criminals know the cops or public know about them, the better chance LEOs have at catching them before they destroy evidence or cross borders.

tiredblondy
07-13-2009, 04:24 AM
Welcome FromFL.

Seussie
07-13-2009, 05:20 AM
2:30 Eastern time & there are 84 of us still reading here... only 15 members. Why don't you other 69, sign up & join the discussion? WS is like AmEx, membership has it's privileges.


Just thougth I'd weigh in here, but looks like all you Yanks are in bed :crazy:

I haven't signed up or posted because I am an American living in the UK, but I am following this story. I really don't have much to contribute, but I stand in awe of your investigative prowess!

Guess I'm just saying there's a reason some of us "lurk" instead of Joining in on the conversation. You guys are doing a great job without me cluttering up the thread:)

daisy7
07-13-2009, 05:31 AM
Just finished catching up on this thread - WOW!

That's what I get for going to sleep early last night:)

Reannan
07-13-2009, 08:02 AM
From the obituary guestbook entry, that was posted by a Terry Poff, I found this facebook link that looks like our very own LPG Jr, but using yet ANOHTER name on a social networking site - Terry Poff! WTF?

http://www.facebook.com/people/Terri-Poff/1359672530#/friends.php?id=1359672530

Here is the link to the Obituary guestbook:

http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookID=8242171409273&page=2

Reannan
07-13-2009, 08:08 AM
Is Terry Poff male or female? There is another facebook account out of Mobile, Alabama that has no picture associated with it, but uses the feminine "her" in terms of the account owner. It is connected because it was LPG Jr. as a friend. This is just mind boggling. Where is Huff? I would love for him to dive into this fray.

Mobile, Al facebook:

http://tinyurl.com/m64wf2

Reannan
07-13-2009, 08:13 AM
One more, and then I am done: There is yet one other facebook account that is strange - the owner: Maw Gxl. This person/identity has only two friends - Terry Poff with JPG Jr's picture, and Terry Poff with no picture. Why so many accounts? Apparently, there is a Mobile, Alabama connection.

http://tinyurl.com/nhwkwl

daisy7
07-13-2009, 08:19 AM
I've been researching the Poffs, cuz I am SO puzzled by the name change. Terri and Joe (William Joe) own a martial arts school in Gulf Breeze.

http://www.gulfbreezenews.com/news/2009/0319/sports/038.html

http://www.gulfbreezenews.com/news/2005/0414/Opinion/full_T15.html

They also own the house on College that is the address for Jr. The phonebook lists this address for Joe. They also list another number for the karate School, which appears to operate out of the GB Rec. Center.

So, are these his parents? Were both families living there? That'd be 10 people in the household. How did he explain the name change to them.

And, is Sr. really his dad, or not?

ChucklesCDR
07-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Hello, all -

Been following this all night, but just got my acceptance email.

I've noticed something in LPG Jr.'s blog entries, but didn't realize its significance until after a while:

Count how many spelling errors there are in his blog posts. There AREN'T ANY (that I could find). He is NOT an edumacated man. I will bet that he is a psychotic narcissist (that's obvious from all the fake friends he puts on his multiple Facebook pages) who has OCD, which compels him to try to appear sophisticated and educated. Even though he travels in circles that are not sophisticated (at all), his inner compulsion forces him to make sure all appearances are correct.

The Obsessiveness about his daughter is pathological. I am willing to bet that he has been working in a criminal enterprise for years, to pay for the facade he is trying to maintain.

An example - he was arrested at or near his home in Gulf Breeze. I used to live in Pensacola. I know Gulf Breeze. It's a nice community. People like LPG Jr. do not normally live there. I think he was satisfying his need to be respected and envied, even.

And gawwwwd.... did you catch the smirk in his booking photo? Jeeeeezzz.....


Later,

Chuck

daisy7
07-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Lindadnette, FYI - FB does not have a Network for P'Cola, so it automatically puts people into the Mobile network

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=pensacola&n=-1&k=200000010&sf=r&init=q&sid=0#/PensacolaFL?v=info&viewas=1105446992

Bumping this post about Mobile and FB.

daisy7
07-13-2009, 08:52 AM
Ashley Markham said that the nine children in the care of a Beulah couple murdered in their home Thursday night will remain together.
Advertisement

The adopted children of Byrd and Melanie Billings are with friends and family at an undisclosed location, Markham said at a news conference this morning in the lobby of a family attorney’s office in downtown Pensacola.

“We plan to carry on their legacy,” she said, reading from a three-page, prepared statement. “We children have experienced a loss that is unimaginable, but as a family, we will pull together. We’ll take each day one at a time. Our most important concern right now is upholding the wishes of my parents. We are fully prepared to do that. The family is capable of following through with those wishes.”

Markham took a handful of questions from the gathering contingency of media drawn to the sensational shooting in the small community northwest of Pensacola near the Alabama state line.

Questioned about the three men arrested Sunday night in connection with the murders, Markham said she has no knowledge of any connection between those men, her parents or any of the children in the household.

“The people who have been arrested, we have no knowledge of them,” she said. “That’s all I know.”

(snipped)

http://pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713005

pferrin
07-13-2009, 08:54 AM
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateReleases/detail.asp?Bookmark=3&From=list&SessionID=270792139

patrick r poff rap sheet

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 09:06 AM
Is Terry Poff male or female? There is another facebook account out of Mobile, Alabama that has no picture associated with it, but uses the feminine "her" in terms of the account owner. It is connected because it was LPG Jr. as a friend. This is just mind boggling. Where is Huff? I would love for him to dive into this fray.

Mobile, Al facebook:

http://tinyurl.com/m64wf2 (http://tinyurl.com/m64wf2)

He's sadly been going through some stuff. I hope he's on this soon!

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/07/note.php#comments

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 09:08 AM
I see we have some Newbies......

:Welcome-12-june:

Sassygerl
07-13-2009, 09:13 AM
Now why would a Sarasota, Fl. mayor want to be friends with the likes of him? And wouldn't she have more than....say five of them? She wouldn't. My money is definitely on him making these pages up. If he did make this page up then check out the details he put into her page. LPG Jr. went to alot of work!

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotamayor

This might have been posted already. I haven't had time to read the entire thread, but he just copied and pasted this info.

http://www.srqmagazine.com/issues/issueDetail.cfm?iteID=1068

You guys are doing great work on this case...amazing!

Spyglass
07-13-2009, 09:13 AM
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateReleases/detail.asp?Bookmark=3&From=list&SessionID=270792139

patrick r poff rap sheet

Hmm, his jail time may have been pretty rough. Imprisoned at 22, 5'5", blonde. Just saying.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 09:15 AM
'We will pull together'

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713005

Ashley Markham said that the nine children in the care of a Beulah couple murdered in their home Thursday night will remain together.

The adopted children of Byrd and Melanie Billings are with friends and family at an undisclosed location, Markham said at a news conference this morning in the lobby of a family attorney’s office in downtown Pensacola.

More at link.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 09:17 AM
Murders conducted with 'military precision'

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713003/Murders-conducted-with--military-precision-?GID=5/g8PZu4qdxeV5UmFdStsfFA9f2uOX+5olbHdnJFJpo%3D

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 09:18 AM
This might have been posted already. I haven't had time to read the entire thread, but he just copied and pasted this info.

http://www.srqmagazine.com/issues/issueDetail.cfm?iteID=1068

You guys are doing great work on this case...amazing!

Figures huh? :doh:

daisy7
07-13-2009, 09:28 AM
Sheriff Morgan on Today Show - asked about the MS page

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31887264#31887264

dood
07-13-2009, 09:33 AM
I went to school with Patrick. His name then was Pat Poff, Terry is his mom and Joe is his dad (stepdad). They, at that time, ran a Taekwondo plus at the Oriole Beach Plaza in Gulf Breeze.

I was friends with him back then and we chummed around a bit. Haven't spoken to or seen him in close to 20 years.

This seems like a totally different person than the Pat that I knew and remember. Just wow...

And about him being 5'5 and blonde, hes also like a 8th degree black belt....as well as Teri and Joe are high ranking black belt martial artists.

daisy7
07-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Thanks, dood and Welcome to WS!!:)

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 09:54 AM
Is anyone hearing anything on what time court appearances will be?

dood
07-13-2009, 10:02 AM
Thanks for the welcome :P He went to Gulf Breeze Middle School and Gulf breeze High school. Graduated ? around 92 I think ii was...

I remember him getting into a scrap with a fellow student, and the kid whopped Pat pretty good, and then Terri came to his rescue and cracked the kid up a couple times, If I remember right, she was arrested for that and had to do some probation. This was probably 88 or 89?

Anyway hope that helps :)

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the welcome :P He went to Gulf Breeze Middle School and Gulf breeze High school. Graduated ? around 92 I think ii was...

I remember him getting into a scrap with a fellow student, and the kid whopped Pat pretty good, and then Terri came to his rescue and cracked the kid up a couple times, If I remember right, she was arrested for that and had to do some probation. This was probably 88 or 89?

Anyway hope that helps :)

:eek: Not good to beat up a kid who's mom is a black belt!

Reannan
07-13-2009, 10:29 AM
Murders conducted with 'military precision'

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713003/Murders-conducted-with--military-precision-?GID=5/g8PZu4qdxeV5UmFdStsfFA9f2uOX+5olbHdnJFJpo%3D

Why am I not surprised. I bet Uncle Lonnie is nervous about now. I don't think some of the arrests that are coming are going to be a big surprise to a lot of us here on WS's.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Why am I not surprised. I bet Uncle Lonnie is nervous about now. I don't think some of the arrests that are coming are going to be a big surprise to a lot of us here on WS's.

ITA. I would be surprised if he wasn't involved.

VespaElf
07-13-2009, 10:38 AM
I wonder if Jr's "time in Costa Rica" was actually his ,under his real name of Poff,time in jail?
ALSO has LE said anything about Jr's MS activities(esp.those impersonating elected officials?)I cant get the video to load where it was indicated he talks about the MS page!!

daisy7
07-13-2009, 10:40 AM
Is anyone hearing anything on what time court appearances will be?

They just keep saying later this morning, with no time. One station said that that the hearing may not happen today for Coldiron, but didn't say why.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 10:44 AM
I wonder if Jr's "time in Costa Rica" was actually his ,under his real name of Poff,time in jail?
ALSO has LE said anything about Jr's MS activities(esp.those impersonating elected officials?)I cant get the video to load where it was indicated he talks about the MS page!!

IIRC, Morgan said investigators had pulled this info up early on. No known connection. Investigating all possibilities. My words not his exact ones.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Searching for motives

Investigators are looking at business ties among other leads for a motive in the slaying of a wealthy Florida couple known for adopting children with developmental disabilities, authorities said today.

more at link
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713012

colette
07-13-2009, 11:23 AM
From SuziQ's link..

Morgan said the investigation involves a complex web of relationships between suspects, though he declined to elaborate on them. He said it did not appear that the suspects knew the victims.

MCDRAW
07-13-2009, 11:41 AM
Murders conducted with 'military precision'

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713003/Murders-conducted-with--military-precision-?GID=5/g8PZu4qdxeV5UmFdStsfFA9f2uOX+5olbHdnJFJpo%3D


This is what makes me think this is more than a robbery. With this kind of precision, they could have broke in when no one was home, taken what they wanted and got out. Or if they had broken in when someone was home, got what they wanted and left with no one getting hurt, much less killed.JMO

NSC
07-13-2009, 11:41 AM
Hi, I've been sitting here catching up on all the posts on her for about 3 hrs now! whew! I live here in Beulah about 2 miles from the Billings home.
Granny P mentioned that "Byrd" was a common surname, but not a common given name; I agree. People in this area of the country often name their children after a family surname, i.e. Byrd.
Byrd Billings was his legal name, but everyone around here knew him as "Bud". Just thought I'd share that; could be of interest.

I know they say possibly no family connections. But Uncle Richard G. LPG JR's uncle has a daughter named Tiffany Byrd. If what Dillydo is saying, Byrd "Bud" could have been named afer another family surname - maybe of his mothers maiden name?? Is there a possible relationship here???

daisy7
07-13-2009, 11:57 AM
This is what makes me think this is more than a robbery. With this kind of precision, they could have broke in when no one was home, taken what they wanted and got out. Or if they had broken in when someone was home, got what they wanted and left with no one getting hurt, much less killed.JMO

In the 2005 article about the Billings, it said they always had lights out at 7:00pm and they came a little after 7:00pm, knowing the kids would be in bed?

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 11:58 AM
I wonder if hire a Hero is involved ?It would be something if this is somehow attached to Casey Anthony wasnt there a connection to someone who was involved in a car scam? just saying

daisy7
07-13-2009, 12:03 PM
The publisher of our independent weekly paper has found some interesting things - I have no idea what it means to the case

http://inweekly.net/

or

http://ricksblog.biz/

The IN comes out on Thursdays - can't wait to read that article, they're really good at sleuthing!:)

Reannan
07-13-2009, 12:08 PM
With all of the crazy MySpace/Facebook accounts, and the seemingly rants about an allegedly kidnapped daughter named Bella, it makes me wonder if the accounts weren't really some sort of elaborate secret code to some other person or group of people. If robbery was the motive, was the intent of the robbery trying to finance something??? What did he need to money for? Why not just rob a bank? Why target THIS family??? There is something about LPG Jr. that reminds me of Timothy McVeigh. :crazy:OK....now my imagination has taken off into the stratosphere, and I am starting to see conspiracies..... reel me back to earth, quick!

daisy7
07-13-2009, 12:08 PM
'A move for humanity'

Leonard Gonzalez Jr.’s MySpace profile makes several references to a daughter he claims was abducted.
Advertisement

The profile was last updated Wednesday, the day before Byrd and Melanie Billings were found murdered in their Beulah home.

Gonzalez, 35, of Gulf Breeze is expected to make an his initial court appearance in Santa Rosa County this afternoon. He’s being held on an open count of murder.

His last profile status on his MySpace page read: “Making a move for humanity.”

Gonzalez wrote that created the Web profile as a means to reach out to an 8-year-old daughter, Mary Isabella Gonzalez, whom he also refers to as Bella.

“She was taken from me, against my will, several years ago, and I miss her very much,” he wrote.

Gonzalez made several references to a family in Sarasota where he believes his daughter is living.

In a July 6 blog post titled “WE ARE GETTING CLOSER,” Gonzalez attempts to reassure his daughter that she will return to her “true loving family” soon.

“Not only are you descended from aristocracy … you have the DNA and family lineage to back-up whatever dreams you may have,” he wrote. “You were also born with a father and mother. No one could ever call you a
bastard child.”

The profile contains several photographs of Gonzalez and other children. He says he has seven other children.

(snipped)

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713014

Also, says his hearing will be at 1:30pm today in Santa Rosa. Wasn't he already moved over to Escambia Jail?

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:10 PM
The publisher of our independent weekly paper has found some interesting things - I have no idea what it means to the case

http://inweekly.net/

or

http://ricksblog.biz/

The IN comes out on Thursdays - can't wait to read that article, they're really good at sleuthing!:)

WTH could someone owe the Billings 50 Million dollars for? Very interesting IMO.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:17 PM
Billings had 50 Million dollar Admirality lien.

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6718

PDF doc. http://ricksblog.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2006043910.pdf

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:17 PM
Murder in the past of Billings debtor
http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6722

PDF doc. http://ricksblog.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/31764.pdf

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:22 PM
Larry Plumley killed himself in Pensacola.

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6725

PDF doc. http://ricksblog.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/31764Appellee.pdf

Mouse
07-13-2009, 12:25 PM
What is an Admirality Lien? Does that mean that it relates to a boat?

Also, take a look at this interesting post over in the Dreamin' Demon forums:

The Demon's Den - View Single Post - Byrd and Melanie Billings Parents to 12 adopted kids found slain in there bed at home

(Hope that hasn't been discussed here already; also, I'd cut-&-paste it, but I'm unsure of the rules regarding that on either forum)

I wonder if maybe Gonzalez thought that the Billings had interfered with the custody of his child, somehow. Maybe the thing that set him off in June was finding out or being told that he wasn't on the birth certificate, so didn't have any right to claim this child as his daughter, let alone see her?

cleo612
07-13-2009, 12:30 PM
The publisher of our independent weekly paper has found some interesting things - I have no idea what it means to the case

http://inweekly.net/

or

http://ricksblog.biz/

The IN comes out on Thursdays - can't wait to read that article, they're really good at sleuthing!:)


Check out the comments section of the ricksblog link listed above. Especially the one made by "Anonom."

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 12:30 PM
http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6718

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 12:31 PM
Check out the comments section of the ricksblog link listed above. Especially the one made by "Anonom."

You can find alot out in the comment section and most turn out to be true.:furious:

NSC
07-13-2009, 12:34 PM
This is the thing though - all over his "ranting" on myspace he wants help finding the Herckel family. They were easily located, just look at my prior posts. Address, Phone, Place of business. He write on his myspace that he is told he will have to hire a PI - sooooo, my point here is that since the Herkels could be located through a easy internet search - did they have Bella in another location??? Could this other location have to do with the victims??? Were the victims friends of the Herckels and did they keep Bella to protect her since his insanity kicked into high gear???

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:35 PM
Daisy7, thanks for bringing this to our attention. You certainly gave us something to chew on!

NSC
07-13-2009, 12:39 PM
Yes, thank you Daisy - WOWEE!! I just scanned through the first attachment - wowsers!!

The only thing that hits me without processing the entire thing is Beckly, WV - I believe this is the twon my brother went to college in - it was a pretty rough area!

cleo612
07-13-2009, 12:41 PM
Billings had 50 Million dollar Admirality lien.

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6718

PDF doc. http://ricksblog.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2006043910.pdf

I have my sweet little granddaughter here with me today, so I do not have much time for sleuthing--only quick bits of time to step in to read--therefore, I have not had time to look up the definition of an Admiralty Lien.

Does anyone know what an Admiralty Lien is and under what circumstances it may be implemented?

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 12:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_law

Admiralty law

Maritime liens and mortgages
See also: Maritime lien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien#Maritime_liens) Banks which loan money to purchase ships, vendors who supply ships with necessaries like fuel and stores, seamen who are due wages, and many others have a lien against the ship to guarantee payment. To enforce the lien, the ship must be arrested or seized. This is one of those remedies which must be brought in federal court and cannot be done in state court.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 12:50 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_law

Admiralty law

Maritime liens and mortgages
See also: Maritime lien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien#Maritime_liens) Banks which loan money to purchase ships, vendors who supply ships with necessaries like fuel and stores, seamen who are due wages, and many others have a lien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien) against the ship to guarantee payment. To enforce the lien, the ship must be arrested or seized. This is one of those remedies which must be brought in federal court and cannot be done in state court.



With 10 million in silver could this have been an investment to bring up contents of a sunken ship?Maybe he was due a percentage?

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 12:52 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_law

Admiralty law

Maritime liens and mortgages
See also: Maritime lien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien#Maritime_liens) Banks which loan money to purchase ships, vendors who supply ships with necessaries like fuel and stores, seamen who are due wages, and many others have a lien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien) against the ship to guarantee payment. To enforce the lien, the ship must be arrested or seized. This is one of those remedies which must be brought in federal court and cannot be done in state court.

If this must be brought to federal court it might be the tie in to the sheriff saying multiple agency being involved.

ChucklesCDR
07-13-2009, 12:52 PM
So maybe Byrd-ie wasn't so clean...


Chuck

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 01:08 PM
Found this its larry's brother Ronald

http://www.state.wv.us/wvsca/docs/Spring05/31764.htm

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 01:08 PM
So maybe Byrd-ie wasn't so clean...


Chuck

Not sure yet lol but trying to find out what the heck is going on.

daisy7
07-13-2009, 01:11 PM
PNJ has a new section with all articles related to the case

http://pnj.com/section/special

NSC
07-13-2009, 01:12 PM
Has anyone run a backround on the victims yet???

FromFL
07-13-2009, 01:13 PM
WKRG-TV5 (CBS affiliate from Mobile, AL) just said on their noon newscast that the Escambia County Sheriff's Office will provide more details at a press conference at 3 p.m. CDT.

I don't see any links for the live conference on the local sites:
www.pnj.com - Pensacola News Journal
www.northescambia.com - a smaller news site for communities in the Northern part of the county
www.wkrg.com - CBS affiliate for Pensacola, based in Mobile, AL
www.nbc15online.com - NBC affiliate for Pensacola, based in Mobile, AL
www.weartv.com - ABC affiliate for Pensacola, based in Pensacola, FL
www.fox10tv.com - FOX affiliate for Pensacola, based in Mobile, AL
www.nwfdailynews.com - Newspaper for Ft. Walton Beach, FL and Destin, FL areas (Okaloosa and Walton counties are 2 and 3 counties East of Escambia, respectively)

fran
07-13-2009, 01:16 PM
With 10 million in silver could this have been an investment to bring up contents of a sunken ship?Maybe he was due a percentage?

Maybe the murderers thought they had the actual coin or somethin' at the home. LE said they don't think they even knew the victims.

JMHO
fran

PS......You all are doing an outstanding job of sleuthing this case! :clap:

FromFL
07-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Also, if you watch some of the Alabama newscasts or read their online newspapers, you may see where they at times are VERY specific and say "Escambia County, FL deputies..." That is because the first county in Alabama North of Escambia County, FL is Escambia County, AL. :doh:

daisy7
07-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Nevermind, it says it's a replay of old press conferences. Must be the one I missed from last night - sorry!:)

bloard
07-13-2009, 01:20 PM
Regarding Byrd Billings... Federal Court records are available through a US Govt site called PACER. You have to sign up for access, a password etc. so I can't post a link and I'm not sure if it's permissible to copy them.

But, in 2005, Byrd Billings filed 2 really odd documents with the US District Court for the Northern District of Florida called:

"An affidavit of truth in the nature of supplemental rules for Administrative and Maritime Claims Rules"

This document is very odd to read. It might just be some really old method of securing a lien in the maritime business, but it essentially creates some kind of alias and claims copyright on that alias, then talks about security interests etc. The aliases are other names with the last name of Billings: Adrianna Rose Billings and Justin Lloyd Billings.

But what is odd is that when I google some selected text from this document, I go to sites about how to avoid taxes by declaring yourself to be your own sovereign entity, therefore not subject to federal taxation.

In other words, this could be a legitimate document claiming a security interest in some ship or something, or else Billings was into the far-out tax protesting crowd and methods.

NSC
07-13-2009, 01:22 PM
You know something, I may put my foot in mouth here for a moment.... Maybe I like to believe the good in people. Because a crime was commited I know we mainly jump into the victims being up to "no good" and why could they have been retaliated against. As a sleuther I understand we do need to throw anything and everthing out there. But in my heart of hearts I am not feeling it on the case. Money does evil things to people. I am not bringing politics into this but isn't this the same as socialism? Socialist believe the wealth should share their money with them because they are not as wealthy...okay, so that is the political spectrum avenue...now let's go down the alley of the same mindset in a criminal world. People become resentful of others with money ie: class warfare and feel they deserve that kind of money or money to be shared with them to possibly promote what they would consider a better cause in one owns life. Maybe one of these suspects knew of the victim, knew he had money etc.. Maybe had some business tie that hasn't been tracked down yet, maybe he worked for cash for a few days for the victim so he isn't as easily traceable. Then we have this entire "underworld" of low lifes that might each have their own motive. One person can touch a lot of people, such as the theory of 6 degress of seperation. Therefore, the Billings being so prominent in their community, having business interests etc.. The DEGREES are endless as to how these people became involved with wanting to commit a crime against the Billings and they may just be what they are. Victims, Good People, and Innocent of all wrong doing except working hard and making a extrodonary living!! *Takes Foot Out of Mouth Now* All IMO, but subject to change at anytime - just what I am feeling today.

daisy7
07-13-2009, 01:26 PM
Also, if you watch some of the Alabama newscasts or read their online newspapers, you may see where they at times are VERY specific and say "Escambia County, FL deputies..." That is because the first county in Alabama North of Escambia County, FL is Escambia County, AL. :doh:

Yep, 2 Escambia Counties right next to each other in different states:)

FromFL
07-13-2009, 01:26 PM
About the "military precision" the Sheriff said:

If it was so precise, how come the van was found so quickly and not destroyed or disposed? Being fast does not make it "military precision." It just means they went in, and got out. Most home invasions/burglaries are done in under 5 minutes: see a home, check for nosy neighbors and dogs, knock on the door, kick the door in, run inside, grab as much as possible, run out and keep going. MOST of these do NOT happen at night because most people are home.

The Discovery Channel had a show called "It Takes a Thief" and they showed how easily break ins can and do happen.

I originally said this had to be some sort of inside job or done by someone who knew the victims and the layout of the house -- guessing that, I was assuming they'd know about the cameras and know to GET RID of the van, ESPECIALLY after it was flashed everywhere almost immediately.

Thankfully, they were stupid criminals who did a horrible crime, and were stupid enough to leave the evidence in plain sight.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 01:33 PM
Regarding Byrd Billings... Federal Court records are available through a US Govt site called PACER. You have to sign up for access, a password etc. so I can't post a link and I'm not sure if it's permissible to copy them.


Most courts use PACER as a system to organize, retrieve and present court documents online. It also allows them to charge you per page to view the documents.

I *believe* each court sets their own fee per page, like 3 or 7 cents. Not a lot per page, but when they end up with hundreds or thousands of pages, it adds up fast.

daisy7
07-13-2009, 01:40 PM
Daisy7, thanks for bringing this to our attention. You certainly gave us something to chew on!

You're very welcome! Just want to add that Rick lives in Gulf Breeze and served on the City Council for many years. I'm sure we'll hear much more from his sleuthing, esp. about Jr. Plus, he's media, so can get stuff that maybe we wouldn't be able to.

Gotta love the Sunshine state with our Sunshine laws!:)

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 01:47 PM
http://www.register-herald.com/obituaries/local_story_237221847.html


Father was Charles Plumley do not know if there is any connection to the murders but if there is maybe the relatives names might be needed.

Mouse
07-13-2009, 02:12 PM
You know something, I may put my foot in mouth here for a moment.... Maybe I like to believe the good in people. Because a crime was commited I know we mainly jump into the victims being up to "no good" and why could they have been retaliated against. As a sleuther I understand we do need to throw anything and everthing out there. But in my heart of hearts I am not feeling it on the case. Money does evil things to people. I am not bringing politics into this but isn't this the same as socialism? Socialist believe the wealth should share their money with them because they are not as wealthy...okay, so that is the political spectrum avenue...now let's go down the alley of the same mindset in a criminal world. People become resentful of others with money ie: class warfare and feel they deserve that kind of money or money to be shared with them to possibly promote what they would consider a better cause in one owns life. Maybe one of these suspects knew of the victim, knew he had money etc.. Maybe had some business tie that hasn't been tracked down yet, maybe he worked for cash for a few days for the victim so he isn't as easily traceable. Then we have this entire "underworld" of low lifes that might each have their own motive. One person can touch a lot of people, such as the theory of 6 degress of seperation. Therefore, the Billings being so prominent in their community, having business interests etc.. The DEGREES are endless as to how these people became involved with wanting to commit a crime against the Billings and they may just be what they are. Victims, Good People, and Innocent of all wrong doing except working hard and making a extrodonary living!! *Takes Foot Out of Mouth Now* All IMO, but subject to change at anytime - just what I am feeling today.

Well, I really doubt that any political theorist would equate socialism with condoning cold-blooded murder. Socialist theory doesn't say anything at all about "give some to me because you're more wealthy." What it says is, "Each according to ability and each according to need." Families, for example, are the ultimate in socialist units: if one kid needs braces and the other doesn't, then one kid gets more of the family's dental fund spent on him. The baby still gets to eat, even though he doesn't bring in money from a paper route like the 12 yr-old does--both of them need to eat, even though one produces wealth and the other just lays there and sponges off the rest of the family in a cute and drooly fashion. That's what socialism is, at least in its purest theoretical form.

I imagine any Socialist with a true understanding of political theory would look at the perpetrators--who have the resources to have a ginormous 15-passenger van in running order, and look at the Billings--who have a large family with huge medical needs--and say that the Billings were, in fact, in greater need, and that therefore the greater distribution was just. A socialist would NOT say, give some to the criminal, nor would a socialist even recognize the steps that it took to equate one to the other. Robin Hood is a myth, and it's doubtful that any criminal who tries to use that as an excuse actually has any real understanding of Das Kapital.

I understand (I think) what you're trying to say about the criminal underworld and its justifications, but anyone who knows anything about socialism would likely place the criminal justification mindset and roots of class warfare (at least in the US) at the feet of Capitalism and its predecessor, the Puritan Work Ethic and the history of Calvinism--at least as much as they would socialism or any other political theory.

Of course, like any theory, socialism in it's "purest" theoretical form, and what big-S Socialism mutates into when practiced as a form of government, are two different things. Because whenever you bring humans and human self-interest into any theory or system, it all turns into one big Lord of the Flies. So I suppose in that sense, you're correct.

(Sorry to go off on a tangent there, but my particular pet peeve is when terms with a long and particular history get thrown around completely devoid of accurate context. Spent too many years correcting shallow grasps of theory on essays, I suppose.)

I also understand what you're saying about the danger of seeming to blame the victim. But the first thing any profiler or investigator will do is look for lifestyle and character clues, because that helps narrow down who has access and motive. That's not the same thing as saying that a victim "had it coming." It's just common sense: a meth addicted prostitute probably, in an average day, runs into more dangerous situations and people who have demonstrated a willingness to commit violence, than does my church-going grandma. Doesn't mean that the meth ho had it coming, or that my grandma is inherently a better person, or somehow immune to crime. Just that if it looks like my grandma was killed by someone who had a key to the house, that the seamy world of meth labs is probably not the first place you need to look. Likewise, if a meth-addicted prostitute is murdered by someone who had easy access to her house, "long-running feud over who gets to play the organ at Mass next Sunday" is probably not where you need to concentrate most of your police resources. It's like any diagnostic procedure: if the patient is coughing, the first thing you ask is, "Do you smoke?" Doesn't mean you're saying, "OMG, I can't believe you smoke! That's so trashy! You're a sinner!" It just means that certain things are statistically more likely to cause coughing in a smoker vs. a non-smoker. Same thing here.


And....it looks like I'm jumping all over you, and I honestly didn't mean to. Just too much time on my hands (and too weary from grading a long stack of essays) today, maybe. Putting my own foot in my mouth, I guess--

daisy7
07-13-2009, 02:16 PM
Here's the written statement from the family

http://www.pnj.com/assets/pdf/DP138461713.PDF

So, sad! I also have a tradition of letting my kids open one present Xmas Eve.

My thoughts and prayers are with the Billings family.

SewingDeb
07-13-2009, 02:19 PM
The sheriff talked about the family and their connections on the Today Show video linked earlier. He said (paraphrased) that you look at the victims lifestyle, associates, etc. He pretty much said that there was nothing criminal to find about the Billings and their associates.

I'll go listen to it again to be sure I am remembering that part correctly.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 02:19 PM
http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090713/NEWS01/907130326&s=d&page=8#pluckcomments

comment by frictionmod is interesting.

NSC
07-13-2009, 02:22 PM
Mouse, I don't take any offense. I appreciate your viewpoint. I don't have all day to write long theories, have two kids to chase after as well so I try to belt out my thoughts and then chase ;) Not going to respond about the socialism as I don't want this thread to get off track ;) Technically, you are 100 percent correct. But as you know there are many people that do not understand the complete gist of socialism. So, my short and sweet version was from how I was feeling about the situation and how it could be viewed from a criminal mind standpoint. And in my opinon the simpletons would just prefer people share their wealth.

Also, I agree that the victims lives should be divulged in!!!! 100 percent!! If you read above though you see it was just a "feeling" I had about this case. Just own thought. and that is why I wrote I might put my foot in my mouth, because we know facts aren't feelings :)

colette
07-13-2009, 02:22 PM
Why all the cams:


The extensive surveillance system that captured the break-in was installed to help them keep track of their children as they wandered through the large house and yard, said Susan Berry, principal of Escambia Westgate School in Pensacola, which some of the children attended.

"Some of the children were very inquisitive, as all children are curious," Berry said. "They wanted to make sure they had an eye on the children."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iTAOQx619OXpq7P0Jcpzqc9Zg-cwD99DNBB80

daisy7
07-13-2009, 02:23 PM
When is the media gonna break the news about Patrick Poff? Or, do they not read their own message boards?

Jeez-O-Flip!!

Sorry for the rant, I'm still distressed that this guy lives just a few neighborhoods over from me.

NSC
07-13-2009, 02:26 PM
Does anyone have the Billings address on hand??

SewingDeb
07-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Ok, here's what the sheriff said (paraphrased):

This crime is being viewed as a hateful and senseless act on a family who opened their fortune and their home to special needs children. They wouldn't be picked for this crime for their lifestyle or the area of town they live in or the people they hang out with or the group of associates they have.

This family would never, never, be a victim of a crime like this. It's just a senseless act.

STEADFAST
07-13-2009, 02:35 PM
The sheriff talked about the family and their connections on the Today Show video linked earlier. He said (paraphrased) that you look at the victims lifestyle, associates, etc. He pretty much said that there was nothing criminal to find about the Billings and their associates.

I'll go listen to it again to be sure I am remembering that part correctly.

I heard it, too. He specifically said that the Billings were not involved in anything criminal and that they were good people. He also said that the suspects did not know the victims.
"Morgan said the investigation involves a complex web of relationshipsbetween suspects, though he declined to elaborate on them. He said it did not appear that the suspects knew the victims. "
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31887302/ns/today_people/

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 02:35 PM
I have never heard of these suspects before today. Local speculation is all over the chart; There has only been one person that I've heard speculate that this was a business related retaliation.
The Billings are well know here in P'cola. I have never heard anything negative about them; ever. They are well loved by the community.
Just FYI, "Beulah" is the community where we live, but out physical addresses are "Pensacola, FL 32526".
I know this sounds crazy, but today my friend and I drove by the street where the red van was found...its not far from where I work! We were headed out to do some shopping and its literally right on the way. Nothing suspicious was going on; mostly run down homes, trailers, a few older homes that the older owners are trying their best to maintain. My husband who is a native of Pensascola explained to me that this was once a fairly decent part of town. Nothing I could see except for one guy out mowing his lawn!
I know all this info may not help too much but I'm more than happy to try and "paint a clearer picture" of this from a locals standpoint! I'm now anxiously waiting for news tomorrow!

I also live in Beulah only blocks from these senseless murders.

Beulah is such a small community that anytime something happens your bound to have met the person at Tom Thumb, etc...

I need to talk with my brother in law, he said he use to work for them at a hunting lease they shared ownership, located right over the Fl/Bama line.

NSC
07-13-2009, 02:37 PM
Welcome PCOla, we appreciate the local insight.

I agree with you about the how paths can cross but not actually be completely connected!!

PrayersForMaura
07-13-2009, 02:39 PM
Here's the written statement from the family

http://www.pnj.com/assets/pdf/DP138461713.PDF

So, sad! I also have a tradition of letting my kids open one present Xmas Eve.

My thoughts and prayers are with the Billings family.

very powerful and very sad :(

NSC
07-13-2009, 02:40 PM
Just thought of something else! Is it possible these suspects could have been involved in Identity theft of some sort??? I know we threw around the stolen car ring... Is it possible they could have stolen the identies of the Billings???

cleo612
07-13-2009, 02:41 PM
Here's the written statement from the family

http://www.pnj.com/assets/pdf/DP138461713.PDF

So, sad! I also have a tradition of letting my kids open one present Xmas Eve.

My thoughts and prayers are with the Billings family.

What a heart-touching statement this was. It brought tears to my eyes. It is so wonderful that Ashley seems committed to fulfilling the legacy of her parents' wishes.

May God bless each and every one of these children.

yanknrebel
07-13-2009, 02:41 PM
Hello, all -

Been following this all night, but just got my acceptance email.

I've noticed something in LPG Jr.'s blog entries, but didn't realize its significance until after a while:

Count how many spelling errors there are in his blog posts. There AREN'T ANY (that I could find). He is NOT an edumacated man. I will bet that he is a psychotic narcissist (that's obvious from all the fake friends he puts on his multiple Facebook pages) who has OCD, which compels him to try to appear sophisticated and educated. Even though he travels in circles that are not sophisticated (at all), his inner compulsion forces him to make sure all appearances are correct.

The Obsessiveness about his daughter is pathological. I am willing to bet that he has been working in a criminal enterprise for years, to pay for the facade he is trying to maintain.

An example - he was arrested at or near his home in Gulf Breeze. I used to live in Pensacola. I know Gulf Breeze. It's a nice community. People like LPG Jr. do not normally live there. I think he was satisfying his need to be respected and envied, even.

And gawwwwd.... did you catch the smirk in his booking photo? Jeeeeezzz.....


Later,

Chuck

Welcome Chuck. I agree with your assessment of this guy. He sounds SO MUCH like my crazy ex husband. Does anyone know why he lost his daughter? My ex husband only worked as a dj, on weekends, however he ran for Mayor, he was a memeber of the BBB, he supposedy sold real estate, and once owned a BMW. All this before I married him. He had pics and plaques all over his house when I met him though I never saw any of this nor did he ever have any job other than his dj weekend work. He also had a never ending banckruptcy that he and his lawyer just laughed about. He would go out and buy things and just add tot he banckrupcty. Now 20 years later (I divorced him after 5 months) I have seen him on the web supposedly owning a Benz, and several old restored classic Jags. He also has ordained himself a minister. WHat a crock of ****E that is. He had a son who I have thought about often. Tha son is now 25. SO I looked my previous stepson up on facebook and found him. We emailed back and forth and he told me his father had been using his ss# for years running up all kinds of debt in his name. As well as other things I cannot mention. This ex emailed me on facebook threatening me for contacting his son. Then he contacted my husband and told him to "control his wife". THis man sounds just as crazy as my ex husband. Oh and my ex made up at least three false names on facebook trying to get into my facebook account to see my kids and husband. There are some real nut jobs out there.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:27 PM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713021/0/special/Bail-set-at--500K

Gypsy Road
07-13-2009, 03:29 PM
When is the media gonna break the news about Patrick Poff? Or, do they not read their own message boards?

Jeez-O-Flip!!

Sorry for the rant, I'm still distressed that this guy lives just a few neighborhoods over from me.

Actually, isn't he referenced as "Little Poff" in the article referenced below in the PNJ? He's being held at the Santa Rosa county jail. Is this the guy you are talking about?

"Gonzalez Jr., who's known as "Little Poff," was being held in Santa Rosa County Jail on Sunday night. His bond was set at $1 million."


http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL?GID=0x+IeOopxCi6MwAylaL EKyMBHyEF6JKjt87g1kdZwbk%3D

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:35 PM
http://pnj.com/section/special Live presser now Setting it up now.Now it says at 3 sorry

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Welcome PCOla, we appreciate the local insight.

I agree with you about the how paths can cross but not actually be completely connected!!

Thank you.

I remember my brother in law telling me just how many Big-Wigs are involved in that hunting lease from Pensacola. Ex-sheriff Ronnie Mc is one of the members he'd told me about. He also told me how they (the hunting camp big wigs) had helped him regain custody of his son, without ever having a day in court!

Like always when people with power get together any thing can happen just b/c of a request from another.

I really need to talk with him again, but he has jury duty today.

PS,
I wonder if any of these guys worked at that hunting lease?

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:47 PM
http://www.escambiaclerk.com/MyImages/1996315915.pdf Do not know if this is same Larry.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 03:50 PM
Thanks to all the locals, You really help to find important info out there.

ChucklesCDR
07-13-2009, 03:52 PM
IF it is the same Larry Plumley, it's in-terrrr-est-ing that he and Little Poff (allegedly) share the same predilection.


Chuck

ChucklesCDR
07-13-2009, 04:03 PM
Can't get video from pnj.com - could someone post the gist of the presser?

Chuck

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:04 PM
IF it is the same Larry Plumley, it's in-terrrr-est-ing that he and Little Poff (allegedly) share the same predilection.


Chuck


I agree !By the way on a legal court document his middle name is listed as M.

athy
07-13-2009, 04:05 PM
wow they believe 6 - 8 people involved?

TigerBalm
07-13-2009, 04:06 PM
CNN is showing it live right now as well

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:08 PM
wow they believe 6 - 8 people involved?

At least that many It seems there are a lot of connections that maybe involved.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:09 PM
from the press conference live (on headline news and cnn, plus local, so far as I know)

they are looking for 6-8 people involved -- he has not confirmed if that's in ADDITION to the 3 so far arrested

a 2nd vehicle pulls up also...a metallic color of an escalade

2 different teams enter the house -- 1 team in the front, 1 team in the back

...continuing...

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 04:10 PM
Hello! I just joined! I was so anxious to get my membership because I've been dying to tell you guys how amazing you are and thank you!!! When I first heard about the story, I wanted to know a motive so badly. First official reports were indicating it was a random act of violence and that was frightening enough, but now seeing that it's just layers upon layers... :confused:

I've been reading everything I can about this. Sorry I am a total newbie and will have to go back and find the sources, but here are somethings that jump out at me - just speculation.

I read somewhere that Byrd's bio son died from choking during an argument with his girlfriend. There was speculation that there was foul play, but it was stressed that it was an accident. It's just so bizarre to have something so tragic happen then, now we learn about the the murder-suicide of the Billing's debtor, and now this? So very bizarre.

Also during the family's presser this morning, Ashely was asked how she learned about the murders and how she reacted, but they said she couldn't answer that due to the continuing investigation. Just seems odd to evade a seemingly benign question. Perhaps the manner in which Ashely found out is tied to the suspects? Maybe she was contacted by them?

Sorry if it's not much help, but just my speculation. :)

Thanks for letting me join the discussion!

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:13 PM
...continuing...

looking for people possibly in Okaloosa county -- 2 counties East of Escambia

the rear team entered through an unlocked utility door...they don't believe it was left unlocked intentionally.

the sheriff made a comment that it's not uncommon for people in Escambia county to leave their doors unlocked --

edit: these were my comments: [MAYBE in certain communities in the mid to northern end of the county -- but anywhere around Pensacola proper and south, you BETTER leave your doors locked.]

...continues...

VespaElf
07-13-2009, 04:13 PM
MOTIVE?
This could be as simple as a local rumor or one of those somebody heard from a friend of a friends ex brother in laws sister who heard from a ex boyfriends mother that her neighbor heard that the family kept a safe in the bedroom full of cash or gold etc etc. This really could be a bunch of interconnected losers,all with their own motives,getting together to target a wealthy family thinking they were pulling off the crime of the century........oops I shouldve said a bunch of STUPID,interconnected losers as thats what they are........they seem to have used piss poor planning in targeting a high profile family who had top notch security on their property .I also think such a heap of people being involved will be their undoing as too many = too many loose lips.Its going to continue to be an interesting journey with this one............

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:17 PM
...continuing...

the sheriff wouldn't name the "mastermind"

he also stated it to be a crime of "robbery"

still won't say what, if anything, was taken

sheriff just said the reason poff changed his name was b/c his mother remarried and he decided to change his own name

...continues...

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:19 PM
:Welcome-12-june: To All the Locals

RR0004
07-13-2009, 04:20 PM
from the press conference live (on headline news and cnn, plus local, so far as I know)

they are looking for 6-8 people involved -- he has not confirmed if that's in ADDITION to the 3 so far arrested

a 2nd vehicle pulls up also...a metallic color of an escalade

2 different teams enter the house -- 1 team in the front, 1 team in the back

...continuing...
Wow! It does sound like a commando style raid. Does anyone know if they were actually seen leaving with anything? What did they possibly hope to come out with?

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:22 PM
...continuing...

a reporter asked about the children involved and if they were concerned about their safety -- sheriff said no.

sheriff just said "they would have been in a location where they would have observed the intruders" after a reporter asked to clarify what he meant by children observed the intruders

there were 8 kids in the home + the 1 who left the home to seek assistance

he would not comment about why the children were not harmed when asked

looking for 3 black males + 1 white male, and they are "speaking at this time to 3 of that number"

...continues...

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:26 PM
:Welcome-12-june: To All the Locals

Wow! It does sound like a commando type raid. Does anyone know if they were actually seen leaving with anything? What did they possibly hope to come out with?

I would venture to guess money is at least one of the motives.That couple did not stand a chance against this type of assault.Its a very good thing they had these cams set up and also a good thing the perps were so dumb to use an older gigantic red van.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:26 PM
...continuing...
suspects:

4 in the van (3 entered + 1 driver)
3 in the other vehicle (2 entered + 1 driver)

5 in the house during the invasion + 2 drivers waiting in the vehicles


sheriff just said this was "very methodic"

reporter asking about the bigger investigation..."is this the end; have we seen all of the suspects in this case?"

Sheriff: "I would not speculate on that at this point."

so far they are saying it is by mutual friendship how they all knew each other

they are going to release a photo from a Gulf Breeze Walmart parking lot video of 3 individuals -- 2 black males that they are looking for and in the center is poff/jr...said it's from about 2 weeks ago.

...continues...

mom23gr8kids
07-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Here is the jist of the latest press conference:

In addition to the 3 white males that we were previously told were involved there are now 3 black individuals involved as well.

They released a second surveillance tape that shows a second vehicle that pulls up only to the end of the drive and the 3 black individuals come through the wooded area near their home and enter on the other side of the home from the 3 white males in the van.

So there are 7 individuals involved right now. They have 3 in custody. The mastermind of the tragedy is currently in custody.

they are questioning more indivduals 2 counties over from us right now. They also said they expect to make one or more arrests today. He says that they have identified 2 of the black people.

He says it will be a long time before they will be able to piece together to figure out why this family was selected. He again re-iterated that they have no evidence that the family is tied to the assailants in any way, including Bud's business dealings.

He also stated that none of the children are tied to these people.

He says that the man's missing daughter has nothing to do with the case.

He says that atleast 3 of the kids had encounters with the intruders.
May these bastards all rot in hell!


I've not posted on here before but I just have tell you that I knew these people personally. I've known them for many years as I taught many of their children and we developed a friendship over the years.

I know it is hard to believe in this day and age. But these are genuinely good people. WOnderful to anyone whoever came in contact with them. I loved them with all my heart and their loss is devastating.

I just wanted you all to know that. These were wonderful people and we loved them with the fierceness that they loved others in their lives.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:33 PM
...continuing...

sheriff says they are expecting more arrests later today

sheriff trying to explain to the media the difference between a Person of Interest being questioned and someone being IN CUSTODY/ARRESTED and interrogated.

they are looking for information, including the names, of the 2 black males in the photo

sheriff is reclarifying...2 black males are in Okal. county and are being questioned.

may be looking for another black male who appears in another video that they are trying to get photos from....also said there is another white male POI that they have no info on

asked if anything was seen being taken from the house on the video -- would not comment

asked if the billings owned any weapons -- would not comment

would not speculate on any prior military experience of any of the individuals

...continues...

RR0004
07-13-2009, 04:35 PM
Here is the jist of the latest press conference:

In addition to the 3 white males that we were previously told were involved there are now 3 black individuals involved as well.

They released a second surveillance tape that shows a second vehicle that pulls up only to the end of the drive and the 3 black individuals come through the wooded area near their home and enter on the other side of the home from the 3 white males in the van.

So there are 7 individuals involved right now. They have 3 in custody. The mastermind of the tragedy is currently in custody.

they are questioning more indivduals 2 counties over from us right now. They also said they expect to make one or more arrests today. He says that they have identified 2 of the black people.

He says it will be a long time before they will be able to piece together to figure out why this family was selected. He again re-iterated that they have no evidence that the family is tied to the assailants in any way, including Bud's business dealings.

He also stated that none of the children are tied to these people.

He says that the man's missing daughter has nothing to do with the case.

He says that atleast 3 of the kids had encounters with the intruders.
May these bastards all rot in hell!


I've not posted on here before but I just have tell you that I knew these people personally. I've known them for many years as I taught many of their children and we developed a friendship over the years.

I know it is hard to believe in this day and age. But these are genuinely good people. WOnderful to anyone whoever came in contact with them. I loved them with all my heart and their loss is devastating.

I just wanted you all to know that. These were wonderful people and we loved them with the fierceness that they loved others in their lives.
Thank you so much for sharing that...I know how difficult it must be for you.

amandab
07-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Thank you for your personal insight mom23gr8kids, and welcome to Websleuths. Wish it could be under better circumstances.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:38 PM
Here is the jist of the latest press conference:

In addition to the 3 white males that we were previously told were involved there are now 3 black individuals involved as well.

They released a second surveillance tape that shows a second vehicle that pulls up only to the end of the drive and the 3 black individuals come through the wooded area near their home and enter on the other side of the home from the 3 white males in the van.

So there are 7 individuals involved right now. They have 3 in custody. The mastermind of the tragedy is currently in custody.

they are questioning more indivduals 2 counties over from us right now. They also said they expect to make one or more arrests today. He says that they have identified 2 of the black people.

He says it will be a long time before they will be able to piece together to figure out why this family was selected. He again re-iterated that they have no evidence that the family is tied to the assailants in any way, including Bud's business dealings.

He also stated, as I previously told you, that none of the children are tied to these people.

He says that the man's missing daughter has nothing to do with the case.

He says that atleast 3 of the kids had encounters with the intruders.
May these bastards all rot in hell!


I've not posted on here before but I just have tell you that I knew these people personally. I've known them for many years as I taught many of their children and we developed a friendship over the years.

I know it is hard to believe in this day and age. But these are genuinely good people. WOnderful to anyone whoever came in contact with them. I loved them with all my heart and their loss is devastating.

I just wanted you all to know that. These were wonderful people and we loved them with the fierceness that they loved others in their lives.

I am so sorry for your loss, and they were wonderful people to take in so many children and give them such a good life.I believe they are good people but I do believe some how people who had a grudge set this up.A lot of us here just try to connect the dots and do not mean any disrespect to this family or their loved ones and many many friends.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:39 PM
...continuing...

the sheriff gave an example of a word math problem from school...train traveling south @ x mph and train traveling @ n mph....etc. He said that's how this case is. A lot of speculating and every time you open one door, another opens even more doors with questions.

asked if he they had the murder weapon -- would not answer about any physical evidence.

asked by a reporter: "do you think the intruders got what they came for?"
the sheriff paused for about 3.5 seconds, looked up at the ceiling, took a breath and said, "I won't speculate on that. I won't answer that question."

...continues...

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 04:41 PM
My news channel cut the conference off early!! Thanks for the updates.. Keep them coming!! :clap:

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:43 PM
I Thank God these lowlifes did not harm the children at least not physically.Those poor children it is wonderful that the family will keep all those children together.

Sleuthster
07-13-2009, 04:44 PM
I am so sorry for your loss, and they were wonderful people to take in so many children and give them such a good life.I believe they are good people but I do believe some how people who had a grudge set this up.A lot of us here just try to connect the dots and do not mean any disrespect to this family or their loved ones and many many friends.

I don't believe it's due to a grudge, I think it's plain and simple greed. These POS wanted what someone else had, they couldn't stand it so they took two innocent people's life and took away the parents of these children for nothing more the selfishness. I am also betting that the publicity they received from the news article a couple years ago with PNJ could have possibly exposed this family.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:45 PM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713021&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 04:49 PM
I don't believe it's due to a grudge, I think it's plain and simple greed. These POS wanted what someone else had, they couldn't stand it so they took two innocent people's life and took away the parents of these children for nothing more the selfishness. I am also betting that the publicity they received from the news article a couple years ago with PNJ could have possibly exposed this family.

You could be right about it just being greed and not a grudge just seems like there are connections that are under the surface and may be part of this.Way to early to tell yet.I am sure with the info that they had a 50 million dollar lien sure could have fueled a lot of greed.

mom23gr8kids
07-13-2009, 04:51 PM
I'm only on pg 3 of reading what you guys have here but wanted to clear up a misunderstanding.

Most of their children were NOT adopted from state custody. Most of them were private adoptions from many different states. Only 2 of their children were adopted from the foster care system and those were because they had previously adopted a sibling as an infant who had many medical issues, when the bro and sis were placed into foster care and parental rights stripped they adopted them to keep them together with their bio sister.

They did not receive financial assistance for their adopted children. The only 'assistance' they received was that the children were on federal medicaid due to their disabilities.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 04:52 PM
...continuing...

asked if it appeared the intruders were wearing bullet proof vests and he said no.

wouldn't speculate if the intruders knew about the surveillance system, but they took enough precaution even if they didn't know.

said they've had the system for years.

asked about motives and the Sheriff stating it was robbery...sheriff now saying emphatically "It is -A- motive" ... implying there was more than just a robbery as the motive.

said they will eventually release a 911 call, but not any time soon.

asked if he knows about a possible will...does not know, that's for the family and their attorneys.

asked if the child who left to get help ran into the intruders while going to get help -- he said no. the intruders had left before the child left the home for help from a neighbor.

clarifying there were 9 kids in the house while the intruders were in the house

asked if the children tried to defend themselves or hurt the intruders in any way and he said NO

ok now after another reporter asks about the # of people involved...6-8...but now says they have not confirmed the escalade that was left at the end of the road was left unattended or not

my comment: so his original # of 5 in the house + 2 in separate vehicles may or may not be correct. They know there were confirmed 4 in the van (3 entered + 1 driver who stayed) but are not sure if the driver of the escalade stayed with the vehicle or not.

Channel 3 (wear-tv) recapped with LEO looking for 4 black males: 2 black males are being questioned + 2 unidentified black males...also still looking for 1 unidentified white male believed to be in the house during the invasion.

...............end of press conf recap by me..................

Edit:
Just fyi:
I was typing as they were talking, so I didn't always put who said what grammatically. However, I would back up the DVR to make sure I could "quote" the question or answer precisely when I did give "quotes."

The only one who answered questions was Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan. So if I put "says" or "he said" that's who it was.

The reporters were not identified, so I cannot confirm who asked what. I did see the following microphones on the podium (I can't read them all, though) : WFTV-9 microphone from Orlando, WEAR-ABC/Pensacola, National CBS NEWS, WKRG-CBS/Mobile, plus 1 or 2 other labeled microphones and about 4 other non-labeled mircrophones.

Gypsy Road
07-13-2009, 04:52 PM
The perps were only in the house for about 4 minutes -per Sheriff Morgan. This was definitely planned and I'm not so sure the motive was just robbery - especially given the time of the crime (7:00 PM in the evening? It's still daylight at that time here in the Panhandle). Morgan wouldn't elaborate on the autopsy results, but said the victims died of MULTIPLE gunshot wounds.

Gypsy Road
07-13-2009, 04:54 PM
Nancy Grace will cover this case tonight per CNN HLN.

VespaElf
07-13-2009, 04:57 PM
You could be right about it just being greed and not a grudge just seems like there are connections that are under the surface and may be part of this.Way to early to tell yet.I am sure with the info that they had a 50 million dollar lien sure could have fueled a lot of greed.

Yup at this stage I think we can assume this group believed FOR SOME REASON(I dont know if it was rumor or someone told them or what)that the family has SOMETHING(s)of value in their BEDROOM (as the assailants headed directly there-no ransacking of the house).I dont know if they thought it was money or jewelry or guns but it was enough for these losers to think breaking into their home & killing them was worth it..............now even with their wealth I doubt this family wouldve kept a large amount of anything valuable in their home but we are obviously dealing with incompetent & ignorant criminals here........

lucky181
07-13-2009, 05:01 PM
How did these people think they could get away with the crime? With so many involved there will always be someone who has a big mouth.

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 05:12 PM
the sheriff paused for about 3.5 seconds, looked up at the ceiling, took a breath and said, "I won't speculate on that. I won't answer that question."

That's disturbing. Maybe it's me, but that makes it sound like murdering the Billings was part of the plan. In addition to robbery. That is horrific.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 05:15 PM
How did these people think they could get away with the crime? With so many involved there will always be someone who has a big mouth.

Very true. Think about this folks: If the family DID NOT have the video system in place, do you honestly think the cops would have gotten this far this quickly? I HIGHLY doubt it.

Have any of you watched "The First 48" on A&E? It's real life homicide detectives tracking down leads and suspects in the first 48 hours after a crime. After that time frame, it gets exponentially more difficult, as the suspects can start to cover their tracks.

I honestly feel they released enough pertinent information immediately that the public could grasp onto without showing their cards. Trust me, that van WILL STAND OUT, whereas a blue Chevy car won't.

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 05:16 PM
How did these people think they could get away with the crime? With so many involved there will always be someone who has a big mouth.

I think the biggest big mouth is L Patrick Senior. The goober who tried to disguise a flaming red and dented 15 passenger van. (Oh yeah, that's a great plan. :rolleyes: )

I wonder if he cut a deal in exchange for singing like a canary against his own son and his buddies?

FromFL
07-13-2009, 05:20 PM
That's disturbing. Maybe it's me, but that makes it sound like murdering the Billings was part of the plan. In addition to robbery. That is horrific.

I completely agree. I wasn't WATCHING the press conference, since the TV is behind me. But as soon as I heard the silence after the question I turned around, hit rewind and quoted it up with how he reacted.

TigerBalm
07-13-2009, 05:26 PM
How did these people think they could get away with the crime? With so many involved there will always be someone who has a big mouth.

I think the biggest big mouth is L Patrick Senior. The goober who tried to disguise a flaming red and dented 15 passenger van. (Oh yeah, that's a great plan. :rolleyes: )

I wonder if he cut a deal in exchange for singing like a canary against his own son and his buddies?


What do you think ....





Leonard Gonzalez Sr. had been held on $250,000 bail after investigators said he tried to paint damage on a van that was videotaped at the Billingses house Thursday evening.

State Attorney Bill Eddins, argued for keeping the bail at a quarter-million dollars, saying Gonzalez is cooperating with homicide investigators.

However, Escambia County Judge Thomas Johnson, citing Gonzalez' criminal record, doubled that amount.

"I don't think $250,000 is enough," Johnson said during the brief court appearance.

Bail set at $500K (http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713021&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL)

mom23gr8kids
07-13-2009, 05:28 PM
Still trying to muddle through all the pages here but wanted to address the surveillance system.

This system was put in many years ago when they moved into this home. It wasn't put there as crime deterrent really. It was for the safety of the children. Melanie did have some hired help that helped with the children part-time, she wanted to be sure that nothing ever happened to those kids when they weren't in her care. Also some of these children's disabilites are pretty severe and they have limited to no language/speech. The surveillance made it easier for them should one wander away to another part of the house or property. They were able to see where they were. You could yell for some of these children all day but they didn't have the ability to answer you vocally. The surveillance insured they were never lost even temporarily due to that lack of verbal ability.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 05:29 PM
I have a feeling the person who owed that 50 million dollar lien may be behind this JMO.

Gypsy Road
07-13-2009, 05:35 PM
How did these people think they could get away with the crime? With so many involved there will always be someone who has a big mouth.

That's just it. Some criminals just DON'T think beyond the crime. They're so narsissistic and believe they are so smart and invincible and that they will get away with it. And I think the biggest thing that spoke didn't even have a mouth at all. It was that big red 15 passenger van they drove onto the Billings property that spoke before they even had a chance to open their big fat mouths! Those perps were stupid on all fronts. And now they've left a family - all those who loved them, and an entire community completely heartbroken.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 05:35 PM
What do you think ....
Leonard Gonzalez Sr. had been held on $250,000 bail after investigators said he tried to paint damage on a van that was videotaped at the Billingses house Thursday evening.

State Attorney Bill Eddins, argued for keeping the bail at a quarter-million dollars, saying Gonzalez is cooperating with homicide investigators.

However, Escambia County Judge Thomas Johnson, citing Gonzalez' criminal record, doubled that amount.

"I don't think $250,000 is enough," Johnson said during the brief court appearance.

Bail set at $500K (http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713021&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL)

I don't think any of them should have the possibility of bail. Period. All it takes is one person to come up with the money for a bondsman and they'll be out. Sadly, some of the judges in this area are KNOWN for their lax ways and low bonds--it's amazing how some people get out for the violent crimes, while others don't. I'm glad this judge decided to up his bail.

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 05:39 PM
Still trying to muddle through all the pages here but wanted to address the surveillance system.

This system was put in many years ago when they moved into this home. It wasn't put there as crime deterrent really. It was for the safety of the children. Melanie did have some hired help that helped with the children part-time, she wanted to be sure that nothing ever happened to those kids when they weren't in her care. Also some of these children's disabilites are pretty severe and they have limited to no language/speech. The surveillance made it easier for them should one wander away to another part of the house or property. They were able to see where they were. You could yell for some of these children all day but they didn't have the ability to answer you vocally. The surveillance insured they were never lost even temporarily due to that lack of verbal ability.

I have 8 surveillance camera's in my 1500 sf home here in Beulah, 4 outside and 4 inside. None in bed or bathrooms! But, our only child is married with her own home.

These days everyone that can afford a surveillance system should have one that at least cover all points of entry.

Annie
07-13-2009, 05:41 PM
This sort of reminds me of the Manson killings. I don't see how one man can get so many others in on his evil scheme. As quickly as it went, it may not even be for robbery but the killings were the intent. Pure evil. I think the drivers should be held just as responsible as the ones who went into the house.

TigerBalm
07-13-2009, 05:45 PM
I don't think any of them should have the possibility of bail. Period. All it takes is one person to come up with the money for a bondsman and they'll be out. Sadly, some of the judges in this area are KNOWN for their lax ways and low bonds--it's amazing how some people get out for the violent crimes, while others don't. I'm glad this judge decided to up his bail.

I have to agree with you. Honestly, I don't know why he hasn't been charged with murder, since he admitted he was driving the van. :confused:

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Still trying to muddle through all the pages here but wanted to address the surveillance system.

This system was put in many years ago when they moved into this home. It wasn't put there as crime deterrent really. It was for the safety of the children. Melanie did have some hired help that helped with the children part-time, she wanted to be sure that nothing ever happened to those kids when they weren't in her care. Also some of these children's disabilites are pretty severe and they have limited to no language/speech. The surveillance made it easier for them should one wander away to another part of the house or property. They were able to see where they were. You could yell for some of these children all day but they didn't have the ability to answer you vocally. The surveillance insured they were never lost even temporarily due to that lack of verbal ability.

First let me welcome you to WS and say that I am so sorry for your loss.

I have a question about the security cameras. Were they visible and obvious in their locations? In other words, would the perps know they were there? I know inside cameras are usually low profile to blend in with a decor better, but outside cameras are usually visible and obvious to be a deterrent.

SeekingJana
07-13-2009, 05:47 PM
Still trying to muddle through all the pages here but wanted to address the surveillance system.

This system was put in many years ago when they moved into this home. It wasn't put there as crime deterrent really. It was for the safety of the children. Melanie did have some hired help that helped with the children part-time, she wanted to be sure that nothing ever happened to those kids when they weren't in her care. Also some of these children's disabilites are pretty severe and they have limited to no language/speech. The surveillance made it easier for them should one wander away to another part of the house or property. They were able to see where they were. You could yell for some of these children all day but they didn't have the ability to answer you vocally. The surveillance insured they were never lost even temporarily due to that lack of verbal ability.

I agree with this because the intruder gang of killers first entered through an UNLOCKED utility room door.

Gypsy Road
07-13-2009, 05:47 PM
I don't think any of them should have the possibility of bail. Period. All it takes is one person to come up with the money for a bondsman and they'll be out. Sadly, some of the judges in this area are KNOWN for their lax ways and low bonds--it's amazing how some people get out for the violent crimes, while others don't. I'm glad this judge decided to up his bail.

I agree. I don't think any of 'em deserve bail. Problem is - is that sadly Pcola is still governed by that good ole boy system.

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 05:49 PM
Hmm...the sheriff said the suspects knew the interior of the house very well. He also said they weren't related or associated with any of the Billing's businesses or family.

There's one person who hasn't been discussed much. Gwen Echo - the caretaker of the children who lived on the property Monday through Friday in the adjacent home. Not saying anything, but just throwing that out there. She hasn't been identified as "family," but would she be considered part of the Billings' businesses?

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 05:50 PM
More suspects sought
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713025

(snips)
Eight people are believed to have been involved in the shooting deaths of Byrd and Melanie Billings.

At a news conference today, Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan said robbery was the motive for the deaths.

Three men have been charged; a fourth is in custody. The others -- "three black males and a white male" -- are believed to be in Okaloosa County, Morgan said.

Morgan said the three entered the Billingses house through an open door on the north side. He said the three were dressed like ninjas, they wore black clothing and masks. Two others, who had been hiding in nearby woods, also entered the house, Morgan said.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Hmm...the sheriff said the suspects knew the interior of the house very well. He also said they weren't related or associated with any of the Billing's businesses or family.

There's one person who hasn't been discussed much. Gwen Echo - the caretaker of the children who lived on the property Monday through Friday in the adjacent home. Not saying anything, but just throwing that out there. She hasn't been identified as "family," but would she be considered part of the Billings' businesses?

That's a name I haven't heard before. And Welcome to ws!

mom23gr8kids
07-13-2009, 05:52 PM
no they were not obvious at all. I have been to their home and in their home many many times and never really saw one. Of course I never really looked for it but I knew they were there but not in any obvious placement that I saw. And I have been in every room of that house with Melanie at least once she was so proud to show me what they were able to do and build for those kids. The house was not at all about them having really nice wordly posessions, it was all about what she could do for the kids. They had 3 playrooms, an elevator, etc. It was geared for the kids. The children's rooms, especially the little girls', was much more elaborately decorated than Bud and Melanie's. She was so proud of that room. She created a real princess suite for those girls complete with chandeliers in their pink bathroom.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 05:55 PM
That's just it. Some criminals just DON'T think beyond the crime. They're so narsissistic and believe they are so smart and invincible and that they will get away with it. And I think the biggest thing that spoke didn't even have a mouth at all. It was that big red 15 passenger van they drove onto the Billings property that spoke before they even had a chance to open their big fat mouths! Those perps were stupid on all fronts. And now they've left a family - all those who loved them, and an entire community completely heartbroken.

ITA That big old RED van sure talked loud and clear . Whoever called in and told where the van was helped to catch these criminals.Not only those that knew the family are heartbroken, a lot of people who have no connection to this family also are heartbroken as well. So many children s lives are going to be effected by this horrific crime my hearts breaks for all of them as well.

mom23gr8kids
07-13-2009, 05:56 PM
I'm sorry I can not possibly suspect Gwen. I can't believe she would do something like that. She loved them and the kids as much as we all did.

You have to understand you could not know these people and NOT love them. It was simply impossible. They were generous to friends and family to a fault. If you needed anything from them all you had to do was ask.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 05:59 PM
no they were not obvious at all. I have been to their home and in their home many many times and never really saw one. Of course I never really looked for it but I knew they were there but not in any obvious placement that I saw. And I have been in every room of that house with Melanie at least once she was so proud to show me what they were able to do and build for those kids. The house was not at all about them having really nice wordly posessions, it was all about what she could do for the kids. They had 3 playrooms, an elevator, etc. It was geared for the kids. The children's rooms, especially the little girls', was much more elaborately decorated than Bud and Melanie's. She was so proud of that room. She created a real princess suite for those girls complete with chandeliers in their pink bathroom.

It sounds like they really did take wonderful care of those children. Thank you for helping us to understand this family.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 06:02 PM
I agree. I don't think any of 'em deserve bail. Problem is - is that sadly Pcola is still governed by that good ole boy system.

So true. The area will never move forward and become a better city (or county for that matter) for its residents because if a new idea comes along and it does NOT line the council or commission's pockets, they vote against it. :banghead:

Oh back to the video system they had: it wasn't full motion video like watching TV. It captured 1 frame every few seconds.

mom23gr8kids
07-13-2009, 06:07 PM
You are correct the surveillance had a 3 second delay the sheriff said.

Just FYI, the local news interviewed the bro and sis of LPG sr just now. She said that they weren't crazy or in need of mental help that they were both simply mean and evil and needed to be removed from society. She also said that everything was all about money to them (LPG sr & jr).

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 06:09 PM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090710/NEWS01/907100342
snipped
For extra protection, the driveway has a sensor and the house is fully alarmed. When a door is opened, a beep is sounded and an adult checks to make sure a child has not stepped out.

The house also has a camera in every room. Thirty days of footage from each camera is constantly retained.

I wonder if they had some warning from the driveway sensor.If the criminal read this they would have know about the safety features makes you wonder why the RED VAN was used.

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 06:10 PM
You are correct the surveillance had a 3 second delay the sheriff said.

Just FYI, the local news interviewed the bro and sis of LPG sr just now. She said that they weren't crazy or in need of mental help that they were both simply mean and evil and needed to be removed from society. She also said that everything was all about money to them (LPG sr & jr).

Do you have the station call letters or a link? The station might put up a video. I would love to see that.

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 06:10 PM
That's a name I haven't heard before. And Welcome to ws!

Thank you for the welcome.

Gwen Echo is mentioned in this re-print of the article from 2005 in PNJ
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090710/NEWS01/907100342

If I'm not mistaken, she was the one who called 911 after being contacted by one of the children. The sheriff said they would be releasing the 911 tape at some point. I guess we'll find out if it was her who called then.

Some hits show that "name" being associated with a local church. An email address (that I saw associated with that name) matches a hit in Facebook, but that brings up a "Jenn Castor" and then nothing else I could find. I have no idea if it's related in any way to the caretaker's name, as the name is unusual, but not that uncommon.

No, I don't think she's a suspect, but these guys were such criminals. Who knows what lengths they went to extract information from innocent people.

It is such a sad, sad story. :(

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 06:11 PM
The Billings had a good sized property. How many maintenance people did they have or did they manage the groundskeeping and housekeeping on their own?

FromFL
07-13-2009, 06:12 PM
ITA That big old RED van sure talked loud and clear...

What does ITA mean on here? I've never seen it before.

Thanks.

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Do you have the station call letters or a link? The station might put up a video. I would love to see that.

WEAR TV is the local news station.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 06:16 PM
What does ITA mean on here? I've never seen it before.

Thanks.

I total agree.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 06:16 PM
About the van: I'm beginning to think it was used because it would take 4 people in it AND be able to stash large items that may have been taken (or they planned to take) from the residence.

At the same time, it simply may have been the only other vehicle they had that they could use.

mikeysmommom
07-13-2009, 06:17 PM
http://www.weartv.com/

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 06:17 PM
What does ITA mean on here? I've never seen it before.

Thanks.

Here is a great thread on Websleuths lingo. I still run into some that make me scratch my head. lol.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84535&highlight=lingo

NSC
07-13-2009, 06:18 PM
I wonder if some or one of the suspects did some handy work or worked with a contractor in the home. IE: Elisabeth Smart case.

NSC
07-13-2009, 06:19 PM
I'm sorry I can not possibly suspect Gwen. I can't believe she would do something like that. She loved them and the kids as much as we all did.

You have to understand you could not know these people and NOT love them. It was simply impossible. They were generous to friends and family to a fault. If you needed anything from them all you had to do was ask.



Thank you for this information!!! My gut has been telling me these people were "good" people who did not have any dealings and were just plain victims of a senseless crime motivated by some money. I posted earlier about this.

FromFL
07-13-2009, 06:20 PM
Do you have the station call letters or a link? The station might put up a video. I would love to see that.


www.pnj.com - Pensacola News Journal
www.northescambia.com - a smaller news site for communities in the Northern part of the county
www.wkrg.com - CBS affiliate for Pensacola, based in Mobile, AL
www.nbc15online.com - NBC affiliate for Pensacola, based in Mobile, AL
www.weartv.com - ABC affiliate for Pensacola, based in Pensacola, FL
www.fox10tv.com - FOX affiliate for Pensacola, based in Mobile, AL
www.nwfdailynews.com - Newspaper for Ft. Walton Beach, FL and Destin, FL areas (Okaloosa and Walton counties are 2 and 3 counties East of Escambia, respectively)

SuziQ
07-13-2009, 06:24 PM
I was gone for a bit and missed the presser. I did watch part of the presser video. So am I to understand that LE has LPG Jr and two black guys on video at Walmart buying the ninja clothing?

BTW, there is a pic frozen on the top story video showing them at Walmart, or wherever they were at. Looks like LPG Jr took one of his boys along....nice dad.
http://www.weartv.com/

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 06:28 PM
I wonder if some or one of the suspects did some handy work or worked with a contractor in the home. IE: Elisabeth Smart case.

Coldiron step daughter said he had worked there helping with landscaping in the past.

LaceSprocket
07-13-2009, 06:32 PM
Coldiron step daughter said he had worked there helping with landscaping in the past.

WearTV said one of the three suspects in custody is the "mastermind." Could be LPatrick Sr or Jr or.. Coldiron. I'm thinking Coldiron was the 'mastermind' at this point.

pferrin
07-13-2009, 06:37 PM
Does anyone have the Billings address on hand??

Not absolutely positive yet 9717 Mobile Highway Pensacola, Fl is listed on many of their docs with escambia clerk of courts

Lindadanette
07-13-2009, 06:40 PM
Thank you for this information!!! My gut has been telling me these people were "good" people who did not have any dealings and were just plain victims of a senseless crime motivated by some money. I posted earlier about this.


Hi everyone! I agree wholeheartedly - thanks for the imput, and please don't be offended as we dig for info. . . it's a process and not meant to disparage anyone!!!! I have a question that Mom23 might be able to answer. When checking Melanie Billlings in Escambia records last night, there were a couple cases that "stuck out". It looks like she had to fight for childrens rights in court - God Love Her. The first case that bugs me is regrading the estate if Arnold Sorrells and the respondents are James and Dwight Sorrells. Was there another estate issue here? These guys appear to be the same kind of low life criminals that Lpatrick associated with - could there be a grudge motive as well as robbery?

The other one is "Michael S Billings" in regard to the custody of "Byrd Starling" (What a beautiful name!). Did Melanie take custody of her own son's child? Are any of her children (or Byrd's) estranged from the family?

I can't imagine that's the case - but could there be an angry biological parent involved?

Thanks again - You guys ROCK!!!! There is so much info being found!

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 06:41 PM
WearTV said one of the three suspects in custody is the "mastermind." Could be LPatrick Sr or Jr or.. Coldiron. I'm thinking Coldiron was the 'mastermind' at this point.

They now say 3 of the kids may have seen some of the killers upclose.

Pcola Hog
07-13-2009, 06:44 PM
Not absolutely positive yet 9717 Mobile Highway Pensacola, Fl is listed on many of their docs with escambia clerk of courts

Sounds right. Remember these are country blocks, not city.