Sabrina Aisenberg

[messiecake]

Has there been ANY new leads in this case?


We still lived in Fl when this happened and it was just assumed the parents were involved and I know LE had tapes of a wiretrap that they claimed you could hear the Mother yelling at the Father about Sabrina being "hurt" (As far as I can recollect LE thinks that the Father,who had a coke problem as well as financial problems,killed Sabrina "on accident" and then the Mother conspired w/ him to cover it up and stage a kiddnapping-which wasnt too convincing)but I haven't heard anything in years (I think either DateLine or 48 Hours did a show about it but its so far back I cant remember!)and cant belive there still has no been no further info or news.

[deputylinda]

does anyone recall the case of the disappearance of baby sabrina from her tampa home? she was ostensibly stolen from upscale home while parents slept. her parents came under suspicion but so far, years later, no-one has been charged and she's never been found. i have always been of the opinion that the parents are involved . it reminds me of another infamous case discussed here at WS in some ways.i wonder if WS could bring attention to this case once again, bring it back into public consciousness.

[deputylinda]

hello...this is weird...i had sabrina on my mind today also. and posted a thread in the parking lot, i had not seen your thread. the case reminds me in some aspects of the Ramsey case. sorry, did not mean to step on your thread!!! :doh:

[deputylinda]

the latest thing was last year there was a big brouhaha about a child of unknown adoptive origins being found to resemble what time-progression showed sabrina would look like now. so the parents made the talk-show rounds, "awaiting DNA testing." i KNEW, and suspected THEY knew, it would not be sabrina, the baby is no doubt deceased...but they put on a big show about it. of course, it was not the little girl. only my opinion as to whether child is dead of course.

[deputylinda]

strangely enough, i posted this without knowing messiecake had posted the same case in 'cold cases'...my apologies messiecake!! please see messiecake's post in cold cases.

[blueclouds]

Has there been ANY new leads in this case?


We still lived in Fl when this happened and it was just assumed the parents were involved and I know LE had tapes of a wiretrap that they claimed you could hear the Mother yelling at the Father about Sabrina being "hurt" (As far as I can recollect LE thinks that the Father,who had a coke problem as well as financial problems,killed Sabrina "on accident" and then the Mother conspired w/ him to cover it up and stage a kiddnapping-which wasnt too convincing)but I haven't heard anything in years (I think either DateLine or 48 Hours did a show about it but its so far back I cant remember!)and cant belive there still has no been no further info or news.

The WIRE TAPS WERE PROVEN A FRAUD. Aisenbergs won a huge settlement against authorities, etc... and Judge stated that there was NO incriminating statements on the wire taps whatsoever and the LE involved should be ashamed for defrauding the courts to receive a continual wire tap & other warrants, etc.

The Aisenbergs were for the most, vindicated through all of this. Sabrina is on my mind a great deal as I have a daughter the same age. She's just finishing grade one now and this story stayed with me. I do believe someone stole Sabrina. There are many cases where children have been kidnapped right out of their homes. There were several, SEVERAL break and enters within a 2 block radius in the month prior to Sabrina's disapperance and ALL families had babies in the home. ALL of them. There was a witness late at night who heard a baby crying behind his bushes/trees leading to a highway, cops would not believe him. There were numerous witnesses that saw a woman at an airport with a child Sabrina's age. The baby kept pushing away from this person the whole flight and crying constantly.

There's much more but that's a quick update for now. I am appalled at the way this family has been treated and how they have been made to look guilty immediately with other evidence including a footprint of a boot on a baby blanket on the floor and a unknown fingerprint on their sliding glass doors leading out to the same row of trees that lead to the highway. I can't imagine how these people feel. But I believe them if that means anything.

Look at the lady that found her daughter (assumed dead child) at a birthday party a few months ago. There are about 10 other cases of child kidnapping right out of their beds that I can think of off the top of my head.

Well, enough said. As you can see I'm passionate about this one. BTW, it was also proven that Steve never had a drug problem at all.

[deputylinda]

the aisenbergs have never been "vindicated", they only got lucky on legal errors. they are as believable as susan smith.

[BlueJeanne]

I think about Baby Sabrina often.

How can the parents be dismissed as suspects?


How many babies go missing every year? Think of the people who move from town to town.

[blueclouds]

the aisenbergs have never been "vindicated", they only got lucky on legal errors. they are as believable as susan smith.

:confused: :(
Well that's unfortunate you think that. I don't think they got "lucky"... I think there IS a 7 year old out there somewhere. Doesn't anyone think that LE can make BIG mistakes about people sometimes? Most peoples opinion are based on what the media wants us to see. There is evidence... explain all the break in's with people who ALL had babies... explain the unknown finger print... there are no unknown finger prints in my home...

[WasBlind]

I bow to you, oh cloud of blueness :clap:

I must say this to anyone who happens by, as you have given me a HUGE open door to do so. In working with LE daily, I rarely get anyone who is responsive, period.

I am about to have to make an emergency flight, it seems, to appear before a grand jury in a case that was very well publicized and completely bungled from the get go. LE assumes, often times wrongly, that people in a family are involved. ALL options should be pursued. Ask John Walsh how much precious time was WASTED on he and Reve while the animal who took their son was escaping with that boy?? Or ask Robert Cooke how many people in LE told him his daughter was grown and she would "show up" eventually?? Ask any family whose adult loved one is missing, how long did it take for LE to do anything??? We are talking about an innocent little baby, and they still screwed it up.

BlueClouds, you are right on the money on this one. I am SICK to death of people accusing the family, in any case. AND, I am SICK to death of people asking irrelevant questions. AND, I am SICK to death of people acting like they want to help a family and doing NOTHING. AND, I am SICK to death of people taking advantage of the most vulnerable in society, the families of the missing, lost and abducted. And one more thing, there is no such thing as CLOSURE, in any case, ever, so please quit using that word. Ask the families of a missing loved one, or a family whose lives have been torn about by crime. They know it best, nothing is ever CLOSED in their lives again. That's a media spin, and it's CRAP.

And, if anyone has anything to say about that, I can bring in plenty of family members who read and post on these boards, and they will tell you what I just said is true.

Don't assume anything, ever. Don't turn your back on your children, ever. It only takes two seconds for someone to nab your child. It takes a lifetime to deal with it, if you can. No matter what a persons lifestyle is or is not, in your opinion, the ONLY person responsible for the abduction and/or murder of anyone is the sick bastard(s) that took and/or harmed them. We all make mistakes, that does not make a family member somehow "responsible" for a sicko taking their child. Got it? Before anyone blames anyone of anything, I highly suggest you get a mirror and get your life straight. Once you have pulled a tree trunk out of your eye, maybe then you can look for splinters in other peoples eyes. I will be the first to tell you I am not perfect. If you think what I just said is wrong, please find the post where I am insulting a family, or asking stupid irrelevant questions of a family, or offering to help a family and NOT doing it. Please show that to me, and I will kiss a dern pig.

God bless you, blueclouds, for defending those who are defenseless. XO

For Donna, For Rachel, For Jason, For Elaine, For everyone who has ever been taken or harmed, I pray for answers and justice, and soon.
Lanie, a victim of crime who never found "closure"
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com

[txsvicki]

I've wondered why I haven't seen or heard much said about Sabrina on forums or on television. I believe one suspicion was that the parents might have sold her.

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I've wondered why I haven't seen or heard much said about Sabrina on forums or on television. I believe one suspicion was that the parents might have sold her.


OMG! Nothing's imposible these days ... but geeez!

[deputylinda]

clearly this case can arouse the same intensity as the Jonbenet case. the Aisenbergs did get 'lucky' vis-a-vis legal errors, technicalities, lousy audio tape. and i was wondering how a person knows there are no 'unknown' fingerprints in their home? we are all entitled to our opinions of course. this case appears to have struck a deep emotional chord in WASBLIND . i am more pragmatic in my view of the case. LE training and experience tends to make one look more objectively and less emotionally. and i certainly don't get my opinions from the media. i hope one day this mystery will be solved.i guess we can agree on that.

[deputylinda]

it seems that there are two discussions about this case, one in COLD CASES. can they be moved together on one thread? if not, check cold cases.

[messiecake]

Linda ,
You and I were on the same wavelength it seems!! :clap:

[blueclouds]

clearly this case can arouse the same intensity as the Jonbenet case. the Aisenbergs did get 'lucky' vis-a-vis legal errors, technicalities, lousy audio tape. and i was wondering how a person knows there are no 'unknown' fingerprints in their home? we are all entitled to our opinions of course. this case appears to have struck a deep emotional chord in WASBLIND . i am more pragmatic in my view of the case. LE training and experience tends to make one look more objectively and less emotionally. and i certainly don't get my opinions from the media. i hope one day this mystery will be solved.i guess we can agree on that.

Yup. we can agree on that. I hope one day it is :)

[nanandjim]

I also think the parents are involved. I think Baby Sabrina is deceased.

[messiecake]

I had no idea the Parents sued LE and won (the last info I had is what I printed so sorry if it was outdated/wrong).I just have heard no new info and was making an innocent inquiry as like I said,I lived in Fl when this happened and have tried to keep up w/ the case.

I dont think its anyones intention on here to wrongly disparage any family of a missing child but we must all agree that theres parents who are victims and parents who are the victimizers and LE has a difficult job to do and the media can either be a help or a hurt (when Sabrina's parents were the main suspects ,it was all over the news,but nothing about the judgement was widely reported and the whole case dropped off the radar).

Id love nothing more than for Sabrina to be found,healthy and happy,somewhere and wont rule that out until theres concrete evidence otherwise .

[deputylinda]

i wish i knew how to provide links so this discussion could be informed and accurate. note, the charges on aisenbergs were for obstruction of justice, not direct charges in sabrina's disappearance. i do know tampa LE and the feds consider the parents highly suspect. the parents live in maryland last i knew. does anyone have more information?

[deputylinda]

Linda ,
You and I were on the same wavelength it seems!! :clap: yes...strange isn't it? i thank moderator for joining the threads. and hope the discussion goes on. i guess searching the tampa tribune archives could help. if i didn't have to go work 12 hours i'd go read! well messiecake, great minds think alike! :D

[LP Moderator]

i wish i knew how to provide links so this discussion could be informed and accurate. note, the charges on aisenbergs were for obstruction of justice, not direct charges in sabrina's disappearance. i do know tampa LE and the feds consider the parents highly suspect. the parents live in maryland last i knew. does anyone have more information?

Providing links is very easy: simply go to the website that contains the information you want to link and look at the top where the address of the website your wanting to link is listed and copy and paste it here!

[messiecake]

Im going to try to research this today as Im still interested in knowing what went on/whats going on today.
I see this is a sensitive subject and ,despite my "gut feeling".Im trying to keep an open mind.





Linda: Didnt LE trace Sabrina,using dogs,to the boat dock nearby the house?

[messiecake]

No its not a joke...........I belive the "West Memphis 3" case to be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in our nation.

I know its a real touchy subject but I truly belive (after alot of research,I started as a fence sitter leaning towards they Pro's) that they are innocent
and at the very least even if youre doubtful you must admit there is far too much resaonable doubt and this case deserves a second look.

[messiecake]

http://www.karisable.com/sabrina.htm


Found a few different sites but this has a nice overview of the case with links(includ.one to a Sabrina site).


From what Ive read so far today (which seems like the same info from years ago) the family was suspected from the get go as they lawyered up right away and the way the house was (no visible signs of forced entry,no disturbance of the dog.the family claims they heard nothing/they left the door open etc).
They had only one LE interview the day they reported Sabrina missing and refused any further interviews after that (they gave lots of media interviews/appearances however) and were very critical of LE (esp. after the dogs were brought out and they picked up Sabrina's scent at the dock-I was right about that!).{EDIT TO ADD:}The parents also refused to take a lie detector.

I haven't read through the lawsuit yet but from what I can tell after scanning over it the family has never been cleared and no other leads panned out (according to LE) and since the lawsuit was settled the family did leave FL and hasnt been very public in looking for Sabrina.


Disturbing anyway you look at it.
Either LE made a big mistake or the Parents did it,neither are "nice" choices.........

[LP Moderator]

No its not a joke...........I belive the "West Memphis 3" case to be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in our nation.

I know its a real touchy subject but I truly belive (after alot of research,I started as a fence sitter leaning towards they Pro's) that they are innocent
and at the very least even if youre doubtful you must admit there is far too much resaonable doubt and this case deserves a second look.

Well, you're certainly not alone in your thinking. However, "reasonable doubt" isn't what gets a case a "second look."

[messiecake]

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0103/07/lkl.00.html



According to the LKL transcripts the parents provided pictures of the wrong baby saying they were pics of Sabrina when they weren't(the family claims it was a mistake and LE knew they were not Sabrina pics but LE says different).
Also the indictments were thrown out by the Judge because he says he couldnt hear what LE and their wiretap ppl heard (it was supposedly bad wiretap) but LE stands by the indictments....................Ill add on if anything else pops up!

[messiecake]

Well, you're certainly not alone in your thinking. However, "reasonable doubt" isn't what gets a case a "second look."


I belive theyre innocent,I was just asking if you could agree theres enough reasonable doubt that would warrant having it re-examined.

[LP Moderator]

I belive theyre innocent,I was just asking if you could agree theres enough reasonable doubt that would warrant having it re-examined.

Definately not, but then I've read some stuff that they don't have at the website contained in your siggie.

[deputylinda]

thanks messiecake for your research...i'm not off again until wed. and will read links then. moderator, don't get mad at me, i can't help myself...i always thought the aisenbergs were lower-rent version of some other parents. :angel: i'll try to be good, i promise.

[WasBlind]

Please read everything on the following links.

http://www.marvelcreations.com/sabrina.html

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0307/30/lkl.00.html

857 matches on yahoo
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22sabrina+aisenberg%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=

One of my families has been searching for 15 years, and when I got the case, they had 7 matches, mostly old news links.

857 matches for Sabrina!!

Sabrina is innocent.
Please download and post her flyer and thanks.

Special thanks to Marvel for all the work done on behalf of this innocent child, and also for other pages for the missing, and murdered. God bless you!

[smellsarat]

clearly this case can arouse the same intensity as the Jonbenet case. the Aisenbergs did get 'lucky' vis-a-vis legal errors, technicalities, lousy audio tape. and i was wondering how a person knows there are no 'unknown' fingerprints in their home? we are all entitled to our opinions of course. this case appears to have struck a deep emotional chord in WASBLIND . i am more pragmatic in my view of the case. LE training and experience tends to make one look more objectively and less emotionally. and i certainly don't get my opinions from the media. i hope one day this mystery will be solved.i guess we can agree on that.
DP and WasBlind...many years ago there was a case in RI where the parents said the baby had been abducted from the home....The child was found dead, and sexually assaulted in an alley not too far from the home...Later was determined the Dad was heavy drug user etc...the mom not much better...She got off but he was convicted I think...She later moved to the midwest and last I heard then had become pregnant again......I realize it has got to be brutal to be a parent accused, or a spouse when the pain of the loss is also being dealt with...But the fact remains the murders are more often done by those known to the victim......It's a bad scene anyway you look at it........

[Trino]

Today's world is not a safe place. You can't lose track of your child for a second. Although I'm a fence-sitter, there are many cases where LE jumps to conclusions. The Elizabeth Smart case is a prime example. LE was certain Elizabeth was dead and that they had the killer. I'm glad the Smarts kept their faith, but if I were them, I would be mighty unhappy at LE's performance.

[smellsarat]

Today's world is not a safe place. You can't lose track of your child for a second. Although I'm a fence-sitter, there are many cases where LE jumps to conclusions. The Elizabeth Smart case is a prime example. LE was certain Elizabeth was dead and that they had the killer. I'm glad the Smarts kept their faith, but if I were them, I would be mighty unhappy at LE's performance.
In most cases she would have been dead...odds were against her.....sad to say that most do not return home.
It was a miracle that she was found alive...but yes, sometimes they are still alive...remeber Stephen Stayner......7 years missing and held by sicko!!!

[deputylinda]

Providing links is very easy: simply go to the website that contains the information you want to link and look at the top where the address of the website your wanting to link is listed and copy and paste it here!
easy for you to say...i'm computer hopeless!! :doh:

[smellsarat]

easy for you to say...i'm computer hopeless!! :doh:

DP...Thoughtfox THOUGHTFULLY helped me out on this...
(THANXS THOUGHTFOX!):angel: You're an angel!!!
Find the article...go to the browser..the http etc line....and right click,
a menu will appear ..click copy!!!
Then go to reply to thread screen, right click and click on Paste !!
it will show up as a link in your post!!! VOILA!!!!
IF I can do it...so can you1!!
By the way my laptop keyboard broke...Dell sent me a new one with instructions and I put it in myself!!!!! HA!!! Not so "Puter Pathetic" as I thought!!:snooty:

[tipper]

http://www.flmd.uscourts.gov/al-arian/99-324ReportAndRecommendation.pdf


United States v. Aisenberg - Report and Recommendation

[MysteryMomma]

This case has always intrigued me.....I can't make up my mind on this one.....

[smellsarat]

This case has always intrigued me.....I can't make up my mind on this one.....
I'm the same way on The Amirault child abuse daycare scandal....I don't know what to think!!!!

[tipper]

Unfortunately, I think police tend to become a bit jaded in their view of human nature and this skews their judgement sometimes.

[smellsarat]

Unfortunately, I think police tend to become a bit jaded in their view of human nature and this skews their judgement sometimes.

HMMM........ Deputy Linda...any thoughts on this????

[deputylinda]

I'm the same way on The Amirault child abuse daycare scandal....I don't know what to think!!!!
hi smells...let me clarify and ease your mind on fells acres daycare case ...they did it.

[deputylinda]

HMMM........ Deputy Linda...any thoughts on this????
tipper is correct in that we become PRAGMATIC, not jaded...i will read tipper's link, and all the other ones provided so i can make an informed decision on evidence...but my "gut" is a factor also, and LE does see things with less emotion and more of a cold eye. i've studied criminology and homicide for 35 years...i can't ignore a lifetime of study. or my experience. hey... COLD EYE FOR THE BAD GUY!!!...ha ha.. (don't anyone steal that one, that will be my next thread title!) someone needs to be analytical with emotion to the side. remember this...as horrific as it is (in any case we talk about) someone did it. so go where the evidence leads.

[tipper]

'Pragmatic' is the word the people I know in LE would use too. :) I have no problem with that. I do think many LE individuals, spending most of their professional lives dealing with the dregs of society, have a somewhat negative view of society as a whole and seem to believe that everyone is capable of anything.

I think this also accounts for the frequent head-butting between police and DAs. One has only to reach the minimal standard of probable cause while the other must weave a logical story that will hold up under a jury's scrutiny.

Pragmatism is great but I think logic and honesty should also be a part of the picture. While statistics say parents are more likely to be involved in the death of a child this age, statistics also tell us that in some cases they aren't involved.

Unfortunately you get a few who go really overboard. Contrary to Steve Thomas' LKL comment, there are cases where police have planted evidence.

[smellsarat]

hi smells...let me clarify and ease your mind on fells acres daycare case ...they did it.
It's so hard to comprehend ...the whole family...ALL of them...boggles the mind!!!!(Which is already boggled!!!):doh:

[deputylinda]

hi tipper...logic and honesty are what crime investigation is about. and DA and LE are in the same bed. i will admit to a certain "us versus them" mentality in law enforcement but the "them" is the bad guys, not the public. we are committed to protecting the public and the innocent...are there a few bad LE types...sure. and we are the toughest on our own, there is nothing scarier than an IA investigation if you're a bad cop. and we tend NOT to be naive...we know anyone is capable of anything. as for planting evidence...so RARE. we have no personal stake in what we investigate, nor do we create the crime that leads us to a case. you know one bad cop out of 10,000 hurts us all, that's why we police our own. but i don't see public hatred of accountants based on one bad accountant. SMELLSARAT... there are 3 families in my jurisdiction that most family members in jail at the same time...mom, son, sister, aunt, brother, you would not believe it! it's a running joke with us. and it happens everywhere...it's that family's dynamics and lifestyle. don't really care about fells acres case enough to get into it however. i'm into HOMICIDE!

[messiecake]

I have come to the conclusion,that The Aisenberg's are "low-rent"Ramsey's (IMO)and are involved in Sabrina's dissapearance and I don't belive they were "set up" by LE,whatsoever.LE knew/knows they "did it" but couldn't fully show how/why so in a rush to get an indictment (which would have given them a shot at a confession or plea) they went with what they had and had they had a different judge (dont get me started on judges!!!!! people blame LE for things when Judges are the ones who should be more accountable!) it might have turned out different.


However though I'm on the fence about The Amirault/Fells Acres case.
During the 80's there was the "Satanic Panic"/Molestation wave across the country and some innocent people did go to jail ..............I don't know,some days I feel theyre innocent,other days I'm not so sure.

[smellsarat]

I have come to the conclusion,that The Aisenberg's are "low-rent"Ramsey's (IMO)and are involved in Sabrina's dissapearance and I don't belive they were "set up" by LE,whatsoever.LE knew/knows they "did it" but couldn't fully show how/why so in a rush to get an indictment (which would have given them a shot at a confession or plea) they went with what they had and had they had a different judge (dont get me started on judges!!!!! people blame LE for things when Judges are the ones who should be more accountable!) it might have turned out different.


However though I'm on the fence about The Amirault/Fells Acres case.
During the 80's there was the "Satanic Panic"/Molestation wave across the country and some innocent people did go to jail ..............I don't know,some days I feel theyre innocent,other days I'm not so sure.
Funny you mention judges...was listening to a talk radio program locally.... They were talking about a seminar for Sex harrassment and the Atty Gen of New hampshire was dirty dancing...and a judge who attended was pulling women up to the dance floor by the neck and making them dance with him!!!!! At least 5 women were dragged up by him!!!
Are these people complete idiots?????!!!!:rolleyes:
Maybe this was BEFORE the conference.....DUH:waitasec:

[tipper]

hi tipper...logic and honesty are what crime investigation is about. and DA and LE are in the same bed. i will admit to a certain "us versus them" mentality in law enforcement but the "them" is the bad guys, not the public. we are committed to protecting the public and the innocent...are there a few bad LE types...sure. and we are the toughest on our own, there is nothing scarier than an IA investigation if you're a bad cop. and we tend NOT to be naive...we know anyone is capable of anything. as for planting evidence...so RARE. we have no personal stake in what we investigate, nor do we create the crime that leads us to a case. you know one bad cop out of 10,000 hurts us all, that's why we police our own. but i don't see public hatred of accountants based on one bad accountant. ...We agree that the few bad LE types are not common but they do exist. Setting them aside...

I think for someone to choose a career in LE or medicine or the military they must naturally have certain amount of self-confidence in their opinions and decisions. Otherwise they wouldn't choose a career that carries life and death consequences. I understand the Us vs Them mentality but when the police choose who the Them is I think they need to be very careful. Particularly in a case like this where (as far as I know) there is nothing that points a finger in a specific direction. If this family had had a history of financial or drug or alcohol or child abuse problems then LE would have had something to base their suspicians on. As it was the Aisenbergs didn't and so LE lied (on more than one occasion)to make the parents seem likely to be guilty. They didn't wait for the Aisenberg financial background check to be done. They simply declared to a judge that the family was in financial trouble. They weren't.

When the police do that, when they make the decision on who the bad guy is and then start tryuing to make that person fit the crime I think we are all a bit less safe.

Police have a lot of power. The fact that they say a particular individual committed a crime carries a lot of weight. With that power should come the responsibility of protecting people's rights. Messiecake seems to be willing to give LE a pass in their behavior and thinks with a different judge it might have been OK. But more than one judge has ruled on this as well as federal prosecutors saying that (for the first time ever) the Hyde Amendment applies and the government was ordered to pay the Aisenbergs legal bills.

I don't think these two detectives are malevolent people. I don't think they are corrupt. I think they decided who the bad guys were and, with that self-confidence that made them want to be cops to begin with, knew they couldn't be wrong.

I remember reading once that Mark Fuhrman worked during his off hours to prove some defendent was innocent. I'm sure there are others who have done the same. But we have only to look at Sheck's Innocence Project to know that mistakes are made. Sometimes they are genuinely innocent errors with tragic life-altering ramifications. But sometimes they are the result of over-zealous cops and/or prosecutors willing to cut corners because they know they've got the right guy.

----------------------

Deputylinda - Got your email. Thanks :)

[Tristan]

This case has always baffled me, but I definitely lean more towards the parents being guilty. It's just my gut feeling, based primarily on the following facts:

The door being unlocked
The dog not barking (seldom would a dog not bark at a stranger.)
The fact that the "alleged" kidnapper knew the layout of the house
and did not leave any real physical DNA evidence,
and
the plain fact that babies are not kidnapped from their homes by
strangers very often.

The younger the child, the greater the chance of family involvement.

[WasBlind]

This case has always baffled me, but I definitely lean more towards the parents being guilty. It's just my gut feeling, based primarily on the following facts:

The door being unlocked
The dog not barking (seldom would a dog not bark at a stranger.)
The fact that the "alleged" kidnapper knew the layout of the house
and did not leave any real physical DNA evidence,
and
the plain fact that babies are not kidnapped from their homes by
strangers very often.

The younger the child, the greater the chance of family involvement.

I think if you read this entire thread, you will see that not only have the parents been vindicated, there is evidence someone (they did not know) was in their home that night. The family was awarded a judgment for the injustices done by LE and the community.

My understanding is, the parents have been cleared. I believe there was an attempt to frame and slander them, and that's why they won a judgment.
The links provided on this thread will prove to be very enlightening to you, Tristan. I have already seen several do an about face on this particular case, once having read the facts.

If the abductor lived nearby, and they were "cookie cutter" homes (all having similar layouts, then he/she would know the floor plan. If someone was watching this family, with the intent of stealing their child and raising it as their own, they knew when they would be most vulnerable and when to strike and take the child. Perhaps they lived in the neighborhood and had befriended the dog. That does happen. Dogs can be bribed with treats and love, especially if the dog recognizes someone.

I was wondering about your statement "the plain fact that babies are not kidnapped from their homes by strangers very often." Do you have a link that provides the actual numbers for this? I think that people (no matter what age) are not taken from their homes very often. It's actually more common for someone to be nabbed on the street, when no one is watching.

Also curious about this statement, "The younger the child, the greater the chance of family involvement." and was wondering if that is just your theory, or a factual statement.

TIA for any answers you can find or provide.

Thanks for your reply, and God bless you.
With HOPE for Sabrina, Lanie

[miles_draken]

I think it's been well established that the parents were not involed and that this was in fact a "Stranger Kidnapping". The mother is convinced that the child was taken for maternal purposes, meaning she believes someone is caring for her child, who would now be seven years old. The 48 hours program last night was very insightful and I was not aware of the flimsy case the Feds took to court based on transcripts of the bugging of their home. For three months they recorded conversations between the family in their home, unbeknownst to them, and not one shred of evidence was on those recordings to implicate them. The authorities originally had quotes from the recordings that looked to implicate them, but the recordings were all but unusable, and most of the voices on the tapes were determined to be television programs. It makes me wonder if the the police hadn't focused so much of the investigation toward the parents that other leads would have presented themselves. I feel like this is one of those rare kidnapping cases that could end up with some closure. The mother seems adamant in her beliefs that the child is alive, and with no reason to believe other wise as of yet, I hope they can be reunited one day. I feel bad for what these poor people have been put through, it was a travesty.

[smellsarat]

Does anyone remember the case in Providence, RI where the infant was taken via ladder and later found dead in an alley??? Those parents claimed it was an abduction...later it was discovered the dad was into drugs and thw Mom questionable...the dad ended up in prison ..the baby had been raped I think....and the mom went to Indiana or somewhere out in the midwest and had another baby...I seem to remember the name Richards or Richardson...not sure...but was a bizarre case....not to say this one was the same...but just like Scott Peterson proves the rule on wife killed by husband...you can't blame the cops for thinking this way.........

[blueclouds]

Thinking it is one thing, investigating is also one thing too Smellsarat; however, having LE FABRICATE evidence is a whole other dirty basket of laundry. They should have went to jail - the police who made up the statements from the wiring. Poor parents.

BTW, don't know about the Rhode Island case at all.

[smellsarat]

Thinking it is one thing, investigating is also one thing too Smellsarat; however, having LE FABRICATE evidence is a whole other dirty basket of laundry. They should have went to jail - the police who made up the statements from the wiring. Poor parents.

BTW, don't know about the Rhode Island case at all.
no, never said fabricating evidence is ok.....

[Tristan]

"I was wondering about your statement "the plain fact that babies are notkidnapped from their homes by strangers very often." Do you have a link that provides the actual numbers for this? I think that people (no matter what age) are not taken from their homes very often. It's actually more common for someone to be nabbed on the street, when no one is watching.

Also curious about this statement, "The younger the child, the greater the chance of family involvement." and was wondering if that is just your theory, or a factual statement."

TIA for any answers you can find or provide.

Hi
I was unaware that the Aisenberg's had been vindicated. I would love to read more about the latest news on this case. Feel free to direct me to some links.

As for the quote: "The younger the child, the greater the chance of family involvement." That is something that I have read in many true crime books,
based upon the fact that a young child of 3 or 4, let alone a baby, has an incredibly small social circle, thereby the family is always looked into first, before pursuing other leads. If it were a peron in their 20's, say, they would have many friends, acquaintances and either co-workers or fellow students, etc. to be considered.

As for the fact that babies are not taken from their homes by strangers very often, I do not have a statistical figure on that, but I think we'd hear about it a lot more often if it was happening all the time. I live in New York City, and we seldom have babies being taken from theri homes. Perhaps it happens more in other areas, but if you have statistical information on that, please point me in that direction.

Have a wonderful day. :-)

[WasBlind]

...I was wondering about your statement "the plain fact that babies are not kidnapped from their homes by strangers very often." Do you have a link that provides the actual numbers for this? I think that people (no matter what age) are not taken from their homes very often. It's actually more common for someone to be nabbed on the street, when no one is watching.

Also curious about this statement, "The younger the child, the greater the chance of family involvement." and was wondering if that is just your theory, or a factual statement.

TIA for any answers you can find or provide. ...

Response to WasBlind
Hi
I was unaware that the Aisenberg's had been vindicated. I would love to read more about the latest news on this case. Feel free to direct me to some links. ...

The best links I can provide for you are on this thread, since several posters have already done the research. Once you have read this entire thread, and opened and read all links already provided, you will understand it better.

Sabrina Aisenberg Page 1 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8632&page=1&pp=25)

Sabrina Aisenberg page 2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8632&page=2&pp=25)

In so far as the other links to statistics you asked for, I don't have them, nor do I have time to research the numbers. That's why I asked you. ;) My expertise on numbers comes from the missing cases I have networked and am currently networking. The reason Amber Alert is not sounded often is because abductions are rarely witnessed. The adults cases that are probable abductions are also rarely witnessed. I believe True Crime books often have fabricated information to "hook" the reader, so I do not rely on information provided by such books. I am working with the families of the missing, lost and abducted daily, and that's all the information I need, since they are living it. I base my numbers on what the NCIC stats say, only, as that is a factual account of the true statistics on missing persons.

Yes, family, friends and co-workers are the first to be questioned. Once cleared, LE should pursue every option to find a missing loved one. Time is critical in getting them back alive. If you have any questions about this, please feel free to e-mail me at the address in my signature.

Thanks for wishing me a wonderful day. I'm gonna try.
I'm just getting started, as it is about 6am here in Germany as I type this.
Hope your day is blessed, as well, Tristan.

*Please note, in the time it took for me to prepare this post to you, 10 people (adults and children) disappeared in America. This is a catastrophic problem which has reached epidemic proportions. We need your help! Please e-mail me on things you can do to assist the missing.*

With HOPE for Sabrina, Lanie

[jokar]

Just a gut feeling - but I sorta believe the neighbor that he swore he heard a baby crying late in the night. I truly believe this was a stranger kidnapping.

I remember many years ago when I lived in NY. My small children and I were sound asleep. When we woke up in the morning it was unusually cold in the house. The window pane of the kitchen door was carefully taken out - someone slipped in and stole my purse which I always left on the kitchen counter. We never heard a sound - I always think thank God thats all the creep did - so, yes, I tend to believe someone snuck in to steal that baby.

Just a gut feeling

[OB RN]

Does anyone remember the case in Providence, RI where the infant was taken via ladder and later found dead in an alley??? Those parents claimed it was an abduction...later it was discovered the dad was into drugs and thw Mom questionable...the dad ended up in prison ..the baby had been raped I think....and the mom went to Indiana or somewhere out in the midwest and had another baby...I seem to remember the name Richards or Richardson...not sure...but was a bizarre case....not to say this one was the same...but just like Scott Peterson proves the rule on wife killed by husband...you can't blame the cops for thinking this way.........
Oh - I remember that case VERY well! Funny you should bring it up - I've been trying to do an internet "search" on those two fro quite some time. Ralph & Donna Richards/Richard. They were from Pawtucket, RI. Those two were BEYOND bizarre. If I remember correctly, there was some very sicko behavior by the father of that baby. Arlene Violet was the RI Attorney General at the time, and she wrote a little about the case in her book "Convictions". Neither Ralph or Donna were convicted in the case - it was a sad outcome, and justice was never completed for that baby.

[smellsarat]

Oh - I remember that case VERY well! Funny you should bring it up - I've been trying to do an internet "search" on those two fro quite some time. Ralph & Donna Richards/Richard. They were from Pawtucket, RI. Those two were BEYOND bizarre. If I remember correctly, there was some very sicko behavior by the father of that baby. Arlene Violet was the RI Attorney General at the time, and she wrote a little about the case in her book "Convictions". Neither Ralph or Donna were convicted in the case - it was a sad outcome, and justice was never completed for that baby.
Thanks OBRN!!!! :) Yes that had have been some time ago..it was a really sick case...reminded one of the Lindbergh kidnapping initially....used a ladder against the babys room.....the Dad did go to jail for drugs at least but I do remember she moved to Indiana or somewhere and it was reported she had another poor baby!!! It was a shocking case at the time..!!!

[jokar]

Just had to comment - very clever name - everytime I see it I chuckle - very innovative - and appropriate considering the theme of this board.

But in all seriousness - if only 1/2 the people on this board were real detectives, the rate of unsolved crimes would drop like a rock. Charlie Chan, Nick Charles, Sam Spade couldn't hold a candle to most of you guys!

[smellsarat]

Just had to comment - very clever name - everytime I see it I chuckle - very innovative - and appropriate considering the theme of this board.

But in all seriousness - if only 1/2 the people on this board were real detectives, the rate of unsolved crimes would drop like a rock. Charlie Chan, Nick Charles, Sam Spade couldn't hold a candle to most of you guys!Thanks.!!..now if you could just get the folks to stop calling me "smelly" things would be fine!!!!
Frankly I think crimes are easily "solved"..it's just proving the obvious in a court of law with all the roadblocks we've put up to reach justice!!!:crazy:

Casshew did the siggie.!!! She's really good at that!!!
..which I am holding onto for now even though the trial is over....just too, too apt for the creep!!!

[lady-eowyn]

This case has always baffled me, but I definitely lean more towards the parents being guilty. It's just my gut feeling, based primarily on the following facts:

The door being unlocked
The dog not barking (seldom would a dog not bark at a stranger.)
The fact that the "alleged" kidnapper knew the layout of the house
and did not leave any real physical DNA evidence,
.
Based on those facts it would seem that Jessica Lunsford was taken by a family member...but the cold hard truth is that a stranger DID enter her home through an unlocked door, the dog DID NOT bark and as far as we know her abductor left no real physical DNA evidence....


I'm a fence sitter on the Aisenberg case...I watched it played in daily in the news and papers here in Tampa. I find it interesting comparing this case with the Lunsford case...how they hired a lawyer so quickly, refused to take polygraphs (that I am aware of) etc...while Mark Lunsford and his parents completely cooperated with LE. However, have had some dealings with the HSCO I can honestly tell you that they are not always on top of it when it comes to investigating crimes...they DID screw up in this one.

[PonderingThings]

Sabrina's case has been added to the Doe Network:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1867dffl.html

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/SPAisenberg.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/SPAisenberg1.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/SPAisenberg2.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/SPAisenberg3.jpg
3 Left: Aisenberg, circa 1997; Right: Age-progressed to 8 years (circa 2005)

Sabrina Paige Aisenberg
Missing since November 24, 1997 from Valrico, Hillsborough County, Florida.
Classification: Lost, Injured, Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: June 27, 1997
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 5 months old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 2'6" (76 cm); 20 lbs (9 kg)
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.
* Marks, Scars: Sabrina has several marks in the shape of the letter "Y" below her right shoulder.
* Clothing: Sabrina was wearing a lavender sleeper with a floral pattern at the time she vanished. A handmade blue and yellow blanket with imprinted animal images and yellow piping was also missing from her crib.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Sabrina became missing from her residence sometime during the early morning hours of November 24, 1997.
Her mother, Marlene Aisenberg, told authorities that she checked on Sabrina at approximately 12:00 a.m. and the infant was asleep in her crib. Marlene stated that when she returned to her daughter's room at 6:42 a.m., Sabrina had disappeared.
Authorities say whoever took the girl didn't leave a note, and there was no sign of forced entry.
While her parents were charged in her disappearance, the charges were dropped due to lack of evidence and unethical behavior by the authorities.

[Beyond Belief]

I wonder where Couey was during this abduction? I would like to blame alot of things on him. I will never believe Jessica was the first time.

[michelle]

I wonder where Couey was during this abduction? I would like to blame alot of things on him. I will never believe Jessica was the first time. i just want to strangle that scrawney little man!!!!!!:furious:

[docwho3]

I have to say that the recordings I have heard, so far, were too poor for me to glean any info from. Perhaps the audio could be computer enhanced with the right software but until then I can't fault the judge for tossing out that evidence. Anyone feel like trying to make that stuff audible? Good luck.
Note:I only listened to a couple of the provided recordings from the website so far.
Lots of info
http://www.tampalawfirm.com/PressRoom/PressRoom.asp#1
http://www.sptimes.com/News/91099/TampaBay/Exerpts_from_the_indi.shtml

http://www.sptimes.com/News/91099/TampaBay/Aisenbergs_arrested.shtml

Alleged taped conversations-sort of
http://www.tampalawfirm.com/PressRoom/PressRoomDisplay.asp?p1=1239&p2=Y>

http://www.tampalawfirm.com/PressRoom/PressRoomDisplay.asp?p1=1240&p2=Y>

http://www.tampalawfirm.com/PressRoom/PressRoom.asp#62


I don't have an opinion yet about the case one way or another but I can understand the judge thinking the recording quality being so poor that it damages the prosecution's case, if it was as poor as the samples I have heard so far.

[kylie]

I listened to the first tape...it is completely utterly inaudible! How ridiculous...How could they even think they had a case with these?

[OB RN]

Does anyone remember the case in Providence, RI where the infant was taken via ladder and later found dead in an alley??? Those parents claimed it was an abduction...later it was discovered the dad was into drugs and thw Mom questionable...the dad ended up in prison ..the baby had been raped I think....and the mom went to Indiana or somewhere out in the midwest and had another baby...I seem to remember the name Richards or Richardson...not sure...but was a bizarre case....not to say this one was the same...but just like Scott Peterson proves the rule on wife killed by husband...you can't blame the cops for thinking this way.........
Rhode Islander here.....the case was in 1984 I believe - Baby Geri Ann Richard or Richards, parents were Ralph & Donna. This was in Pawtucket RI. I've been tyring to find information on this case for a while too. Father was tried & acquitted....mother's case was dropped since the acquittal of the father - LE had more evidence on Father. Truly horrific crime. I'd love to see this re-opened & see if they could get something to stick on the mother. That poor baby. I think she was about 4 months old or so. From my recall - there was no impropriety on the part of LE.

[babydust2004]

Polly Klaas was also taken from her own home by a stranger.I really think in some cases too many people may be ruled out just by assumption of it has to be a family member or someone they know.

[blueclouds]

Polly Klaas was also taken from her own home by a stranger.I really think in some cases too many people may be ruled out just by assumption of it has to be a family member or someone they know.
IF I HAD THE TIME and effort to present facts and cases, there are many MANY cases where children have been kidnapped from homes.

Not to mention the 5 other crimes within a 3 week period in the SAME AREA AS THE AISENBERGS THAT ALL HAD babies!!!!!!!!!!!!! attempted break ins.

THere is NO WAY on the face of this earth that these people are guilty. I will stand by my beliefs on this case. They have been dragged through crap all because of illegal activity of zealous stupid LE. which themselves should be in jail. :behindbar

[babydust2004]

IF I HAD THE TIME and effort to present facts and cases, there are many MANY cases where children have been kidnapped from homes.

Not to mention the 5 other crimes within a 3 week period in the SAME AREA AS THE AISENBERGS THAT ALL HAD babies!!!!!!!!!!!!! attempted break ins.

THere is NO WAY on the face of this earth that these people are guilty. I will stand by my beliefs on this case. They have been dragged through crap all because of illegal activity of zealous stupid LE. which themselves should be in jail. :behindbar
AMEN blueclouds,Polly is just the person that popped into my head at the time.I totally agree with you.

[Richard]

There has been some interest and questions concerning statistics about Abductions in this thread. Of course, each source may have slightly different statistics, but here are some for general guidlines and thoughts:

According to the United States Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice Delinquency Prevention Juvenile Justice Bulletin, June 2000 -Kidnapping makes up less than 2 percent of all violent crimes against juveniles reported to police.

Based on the identity of the perpetrator, there are three distinct types of kidnapping:

1 Kidnapping by a relative of the victim or "family kidnapping" (49 percent),

2. Kidnapping by an acquaintance of the victim or "acquaintance kidnapping" (27 percent

3. Kidnapping by a stranger to the victim or "stranger kidnapping" (24 percent).
Family kidnapping is committed primarily by parents, involves a larger percentage of female perpetrators (43 percent) than other types of kidnapping offenses, occurs more frequently to children under 6, equally victimizes juveniles of both sexes, and most often originates in the home.

Acquaintance kidnapping has features that suggest it should not be lumped with stranger kidnapping into the single category of non-family kidnapping, as has been done in the past.

Acquaintance kidnapping involves a comparatively high percentage of juvenile perpetrators, has the largest percentage of female and teenage victims, is more often associated with other crimes (especially sexual and physical assault), occurs at homes and residences, and has the highest percentage of injured victims.

Stranger kidnapping victimizes more females than males, occurs primarily at outdoor locations, victimizes both teenagers and school-age children, is associated with sexual assaults in the case of girl victims and robberies in the case of boy victims (although not exclusively so), and is the type of kidnapping most likely to involve the use of a firearm.

Source/Link:
http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-mcstatistics.htm

These statistics are clearly for those cases which have been RESOLVED and determined to be kidnappings. What is not mentioned in this link is the statistics regarding DISAPPEARANCES or Missing Persons. Those would be very interesting to see as well. For instance, where does Kidnapping fit in that overal picture?

Unfortunately, many cases of kidnapping in the past were allowed to get cold simply because statistics or odds were in favor of the missing person simply being a "run-away" or intentionally missing, or lost, etc. By the time a serious investigation into a real kidnapping got underway, it was too late.

Kidnapping in the US is a rare crime overall, but it is the type of crime that requires an immediate and nationwide response, thus the various recent iniatives such as the Amber Alerts.

[Shadow205]

http://www.differentstrings.info/archives/2003/05/possible_news_i.html

An Illinois family is cooperating willingly with an investigation into whether the child they've been raising is a girl who disappeared from Florida years ago, police said Friday.

A DNA sample has been taken from the 6-year-old known as Paloma, and results are expected within two weeks, Pontiac Police Chief Donald Schlosser said.

If the test results match with Steven and Marlene Aisenberg, the Illinois family will surrender the girl, Schlosser said. He declined to identify the family.

Apparently, a woman in Texas was being deported and gave the child to a nurse there, who then gave her to her sister in Pontiac, Illinois. The family wanted to adopt the child, but because there were no papers identifying her nor did she have a birth certificate, the court would not allow it. Instead, the court ordered a search for the girl's parents, and, as part of the search, her photo was posted to a "missing children" website. A woman who saw the picture thought she resembled Sabrina, and contacted the Aisenbergs. The next step will be to do DNA tests to see if the girl is their daughter.

This was dated 05/02/03 so I guess that it wasn't Sabrina. I wonder who the baby was that the couple in Il. had?

[Pepper]

IF I HAD THE TIME and effort to present facts and cases, there are many MANY cases where children have been kidnapped from homes.

Not to mention the 5 other crimes within a 3 week period in the SAME AREA AS THE AISENBERGS THAT ALL HAD babies!!!!!!!!!!!!! attempted break ins.

THere is NO WAY on the face of this earth that these people are guilty. I will stand by my beliefs on this case. They have been dragged through crap all because of illegal activity of zealous stupid LE. which themselves should be in jail. :behindbar

Hiya blueclouds! I totally agree with you. Like you, I believe the Aisenbergs are totally innocent. They just don't fit the profile of parents who would harm their child, especially while there are other healthy children in the family. It seems that usually if the parents are involved, there is a history of neglect, and one child is just not singled out, leaving other healthy siblings. I'm not buying it.

[CRS61]

Hiya blueclouds! I totally agree with you. Like you, I believe the Aisenbergs are totally innocent. They just don't fit the profile of parents who would harm their child, especially while there are other healthy children in the family. It seems that usually if the parents are involved, there is a history of neglect, and one child is just not singled out, leaving other healthy siblings. I'm not buying it.
Did you ever read the book, I believe it is called, The boy named David?

[Tristan]

I just watched MSNBC Investigates the Sabrina Aisenberg case, and I am actually on the fence about this case. A few questions:

If a stranger took the baby, why was there no forensic evidence?

The Aisenbergs failed their polygraphs, and their second polygraph was
inconclusive. (The Mothers, I believe.)
Doesn't this lean towards guilt?

Also, is LE still investigating? This is such a sad case.

[gidget641]

Did you ever read the book, I believe it is called, The boy named David?

Do you me "A Child called 'It'" By David Pelzer?

[blueclouds]

I just watched MSNBC Investigates the Sabrina Aisenberg case, and I am actually on the fence about this case. A few questions:

If a stranger took the baby, why was there no forensic evidence?

The Aisenbergs failed their polygraphs, and their second polygraph was
inconclusive. (The Mothers, I believe.)
Doesn't this lean towards guilt?

Also, is LE still investigating? This is such a sad case.
The first polygraph was inconclusive from the mom because she was on drugs and too distraught. They passed the second tests completely.

[michelle]

Do you me "A Child called 'It'" By David Pelzer?That book was so sad. I read all of them and was horrified!!!

[Masterj]

That book was so sad. I read all of them and was horrified!!!
O/T but do you know that many people question the authenticity of those books?

[Jeana (DP)]

I just watched MSNBC Investigates the Sabrina Aisenberg case, and I am actually on the fence about this case. A few questions:

If a stranger took the baby, why was there no forensic evidence?

The Aisenbergs failed their polygraphs, and their second polygraph was
inconclusive. (The Mothers, I believe.)
Doesn't this lean towards guilt?

Also, is LE still investigating? This is such a sad case.


There was no forensic evidence in the Westerfield case either. Its not unusual. I have no idea what happened to Baby Sabrina, but agree that there are some much needed answers in this case. Before the Westerfield and Fox cases, I would have thought it impossible for someone to enter a home in the night and walk out with a child. I don't any more.

[bykerladi]

Could someone please give a link showing that the parents were vindicated? Blueclouds, I noticed you stated this many times but the only links you provided were back to this thread. I read through it, looked at all the links, and I still don't see that evidence. Could someone help me please?

[wondering22]

Could someone please give a link showing that the parents were vindicated? Blueclouds, I noticed you stated this many times but the only links you provided were back to this thread. I read through it, looked at all the links, and I still don't see that evidence. Could someone help me please?


Hi there...

I'm not familiar with this case, but at google, I learned that the parents were awarded THREE MILLION IN DAMAGES, and there's a messagethread here at WS about botched investigations and this case is included on that thread.

I suggest that you go to google and using the advanced search, put her name in the PHRASE field, and in the MUST INCLUDE field put - parents innocent

There were almost 300 results.


Here is just one of them.

http://www.webbsleuths.com/dcf/MC/264.html

[cbcrime]

I remember seeing a program about this case I think it was American Justice. It was interesting and thought provoking. The tapes that supposedly caught the parents admitting to a crime against Sabrina were thrown out. They played the tapes and they were really inaudible. The government had to pay damages to the parents. You might try American Justice web site to see if they have details.

[Tristan]

So, what are your theories on what happened to baby Sabrina?

It is unlikely that a sexual predator would take a 5 month old.
I know there are total sickos out there, but the vast majority take
older children, not infants.

She could have been sold on the black market, but how likely is that?

This case is so weird!

[cbcrime]

Yes it is weird. I think the gut reaction is that he parent(s) are involved. Yet children have been taken from the home without leaving forensics. And with what prosecutors and LE did - it really muddies the whole case.

You know if it wasn't the parents - it could have been someone who wanted a child. My own dad was kidnapped from his buggy in the backyard. Luckily they found him - a woman who had lost her own child took him. Though she didn't have to enter the house. And my dad was born in 1929.

You know polygraphs are a tool - an indicator. They are not 100% accurate. So once again it is just quagmire. And I'm not sure who is actually responsible.

[michelle]

O/T but do you know that many people question the authenticity of those books?Are you serious? I hope he wasnt lying...

[wondering22]

Yes it is weird. I think the gut reaction is that he parent(s) are involved. Yet children have been taken from the home without leaving forensics. And with what prosecutors and LE did - it really muddies the whole case.

You know if it wasn't the parents - it could have been someone who wanted a child. My own dad was kidnapped from his buggy in the backyard. Luckily they found him - a woman who had lost her own child took him. Though she didn't have to enter the house. And my dad was born in 1929.

You know polygraphs are a tool - an indicator. They are not 100% accurate. So once again it is just quagmire. And I'm not sure who is actually responsible.

That was my own first impression, that somebody had seen this pretty little baby and had felt, "She looks just like she could be MINE," and simply snatched her -- so it wasn't a family friend, it wasn't someone they knew well, but simply someone who'd seen their daughter and so it was a "crime of opportunity."

[wondering22]

There was no forensic evidence in the Westerfield case either. Its not unusual. I have no idea what happened to Baby Sabrina, but agree that there are some much needed answers in this case. Before the Westerfield and Fox cases, I would have thought it impossible for someone to enter a home in the night and walk out with a child. I don't any more.
I agree.

It seems to me that it would be far easier to enter a residence and snatch a baby from its crib, than to try to take a baby from a hospital nursery --- and just think of all the security measures that have been put in place to try to prevent that.

It will be very interesting, in decades to come, as DNA-tests become less and less expensive, to see how many "adoptees" never went through official adoption agencies, and are able to find their bio-parents through DNA searches on Internet genaeology sites.

There was a fascinating article about a British teenager who was able to learn his REAL surname from DNA analysis, and then track down his bio-dad online.

Obviously, there are MANY people who desperately WANT infants, or else such stringent security measures wouldn't be necessary at our hospitals.

What security measures do most homes of young families have?


NONE.

[wondering22]

How a donor sperm boy traced his father using the internet
By Sam Lister, Health Correspondent


A TEENAGER born from an anonymous sperm donation has managed to track down his biological father using his saliva and the internet in a case that could throw the policy of donor anonymity into disarray.

Scientists have given warning that men who have given sperm are now at risk of being traced by offspring with the dramatic growth of genealogy and DNA databases on the internet.

They said that guarantees of anonymity, which have been given to thousands of donors over the years, could prove worthless with the increase in such resources.

The boy, who was 15 at the time, was able to evade safeguards by sending a swab of saliva taken from the inside of his cheek to a website used by genealogists to chart their family trees.

For a fee of $289 (£163), his DNA was mapped and added to the website's database, which sends e-mail alerts to its customers when close matches appear. The service, www.familytreedna.com, compares the user's Y chromosome — which passes from father to son virtually unchanged — against a database of Y chromosomes from other men.

Nine months later the teenager, an American who has not been named, was informed of two close matches. He was contacted by the two men, who were both using the website to trace their family trees.

Though the biological father had never supplied his DNA to the site, his Y chromosome profile, shared by his son and closely matched by the two other men, suggested they must be related. The similarities in Y chromosomes between the teenager and the two men revealed a 50 per cent chance that all three had the same father, grandfather or great-grandfather.

According to New Scientist, which is publishing the report this week, both men who contacted the teenager had the same surname, although with different spellings.

Using this information, he then used a second website, www.omnitrace.com, to compare the surname with the few details of his biological father given by the fertility clinic, which include date and place of birth, and his college degree. The search brought up a match for his father.

Similar details of British donors, as well as religion and occupation, are offered to their genetic offspring.

Bryan Sykes, a geneticist at the University of Oxford and chairman of www.OxfordAncestors.com, a genetic genealogy website, said that the case showed the power of the internet...


ARTICLE CONTINUES...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-1855309,00.html

[lilsister]

I saw the 48 hours mystery on this and I am appauled at the handling of this case by LE. They claimed to have difinitive recordings of the parents claiming they killed the baby but then all experts have concluded that the tapes were totally inaccurate and perhaps fabricated. I still believe in their innocence regardless of polygraphs...no one should submit to a poly even if they are innocent...not a great science! JMO

[laini]

Hot Case #227 on doenetwork. I am trying to find out if this unidentified was skeletal (weighed only 6 lb), and if she had been there long. I wonder if it could be Sabrina. (hope not) Any thoughts?

[michelle]

Hot Case #227 on doenetwork. I am trying to find out if this unidentified was skeletal (weighed only 6 lb), and if she had been there long. I wonder if it could be Sabrina. (hope not) Any thoughts?Do you have a link?

[miles_draken]

I agree the police botched this investigation. The Ramseys and these parents both seem to have been focused on with tunnel vision by LE. I have heard the mother state that she feels Sabrina is alive and was taken by someone who needed a child. I wonder if they've investigated people who had a child die within a certain time-frame of her disappearance. It would most likely be someone within a close radius of where they lived and perhaps they moved away from the area after taking her. This is definitely something I would check out, but I can't be the only one who has thought of that.Grieving mothers who have lost children will do some strange things, and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that this could have happened in this case. I'm writing a novel currently where this happens to a child, so perhaps my fiction is coming to a real life case, but it certainly is plausible.

[laini]

Do you have a link?
I can't figure out how to link the hot cases. Sorry. I tried several ways but can't get it.

[spikydragon]

Here's the direct link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/hot/hotcase227.html
This should work... I hope.

[docwho3]

Here's the direct link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/hot/hotcase227.html
This should work... I hope.
I tried the link but at first it did not work. So next I went to the doenetwork site and viewed the page in an extra window and then I closed the extra window and again tried the link in your websleuths post and this time the link worked fine. I suspect they are trying to block bandwidth usage by forcing people to view images (and perhaps web pages too)from their site by using some sort of a cookie that gets deposited when you view their website . . . .but that's just a guess.

[missacorah]

Any more news on the possibility of this little girl being Sabrina?

From the photos shown they really do look alike - I know its hard to tell with babies as people say they do all look similar but wow! I really hope this could be Sabrina!

[marylandmissing]

There was no forensic evidence in the Westerfield case either. Its not unusual. I have no idea what happened to Baby Sabrina, but agree that there are some much needed answers in this case. Before the Westerfield and Fox cases, I would have thought it impossible for someone to enter a home in the night and walk out with a child. I don't any more.
There was forensic evidence in that case. They found fibers that matched the girls clothing in his Winnabago (or whatever it was)...

There are only 115 'stranger' kidnappings in the US every year...And even with that, most of them aren't 'strangers' so much...The guy who snatched Samantha Runnion had once lived in the Grandmother's neighborhood and had seen her around...Elizabeth Smart was grabbed by a guy knew the house layout because he had worked at the house...A boy in MD was kidnapped about ten years ago by a guy working down the road from his house.

[cappuccina]

....Sabrina's father murdered her, and the police did not have enough evidence to arrest him...

[Pepper]

....Sabrina's father murdered her, and the police did not have enough evidence to arrest him...Is this fact or opinion? And if opinion, based on what?

[laini]

Yes, please say more Cappachinna. I am interested to hear why you believe he killed his daughter.

[lilsister]

Didn't he pass the poly exam??? And wasn't evidence fabricated against them after there house was wire tapped???

[ladygator]

Fireworks In Court Over Aisenberg Civil Suit
Posted September 11, 2006 by Vidisha Priyanka

http://tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/category/D0/

http://www.sptimes.com/News2/Sabrina/default.shtml

[HollywoodBound]

I thought a couple of years ago I heard part of one of the tapes on the news. I know in one of the links posted above it indicates the tapes were not released so now I'm not sure if it was something else I heard. Does anyone have a link to hear any part of the tapes?

[montana272]

I can only tell you from experience that you cannot believe everything you hear on the news. I don't think this statement is actually completely factual.
I would like to know how many of you on this board were ever victims of child abuse and or sexual abuse from a parent or a family member? It would be interesting to know of those people who believes that the Ramsey's and the Iisenberg's are innocent?
I am a victim of child abuse and sexual abuse. Physical abuse and mental abuse. Because I have experience with abusers, I have to say that abusers have a certain kind of radar about them. I have learned this from being around them. I have a sort of "six sense" about spotting these people. I once was indroduced to my Mothers new boyfriend who by the way she later married. When he came to greet me with a hug, a voice in my head said "this man is a child molester" Years later after my Mother had married him and they had a baby girl did those words come back to haunt me. he molested his own 2 1/2 year old daugher and sodomized her. I knew of him and he did not fool me one bit, but unfortunately fooled everyone else around him. He never paid for that crime, thou we tried. I knew that one day he would kill someone. I just knew it. My Mother divorced him and 19 years later he murdered his common law wife. I say this because people who victimized other people who hurt and sexually abuse them have very simular personality traits. This is like profiling. I personally feel the Ramseys and the Aisenbergs know more then what they claim. I knew that Karr was not the killer from the moment I heard of the full story. I also knew from the moment I saw Susan Smith on TV crying about her boys that she was guilty. I can spot a liar now very well. But you can't go by that, so I try and prove my feelings. Mr. Klass has been through this very thing. I respect his views about all others because he has personal experience in these matters as most of us have not. He also believes that the Ramseys and the Aisenbergs are hidding something. If you look at the Larry King interview with the Aisenberg's Mr. Klass corners them about Ms. Aisenberg's constantly changing her story about the day her baby disapeared. We may never know what happened but I can assure you Mr. Klass who has far more experience than any of us knows what is not right when it comes to these issues. All it is people is not a deep as you may think. It is purely common sense. Just plain common sense.

I have to say that NO ONE makes you look guilty. NO ONE. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It is a duck. These two family's the Aisneberg's and the Ramsey's Have acted guilty on their own.
None of these mentioned in this statement from below has anything revelent to their innocence at all. Any time a missing child is reported the Police get thousands and thousands of calls from all over the United States with people claiming to have seen the child. And we all know that is not possible for the child to have been seen in every state and by thousands of people. The woman at the airport carrying a child who was crying and pushing her away...oh come on LOL I have four children and they have all done that when they wanted down! LOL Sorry but nothing against you, but been there done that. Also a day or two after the Aisenberg's daughter was reported missing....Those two parents were smiling on national tv...now come on we all grieve differently but this is not grief at all. This alone doesn't mean anything but look at all the other things. What Mother goes into her childs room, sees the child missing and Instanty YELLS! kind of odd dont you think? The first thing you do is start to look in your other childrens room....to see if she is with them. My 4 year old was constantly stealing her brother from his bassinett. I would have to be a complete nut to see it empty and SCREAM right away. See what Mr. Klass has to say about this on the Larry King transcripts. If you are telling the truth your story never changes...if you lying it changes. Read for yourself:
KLAAS: The attention could only help these kinds of situations. If there is still a child out there and that child is still alive, people take a look at this picture, and hopefully it will bring the little girl home. I'm just not sure that that is the situation we are dealing with here. You know, Nancy was talking about some of the things leading up to discovery of Sabrina's disappearance and I would like to pick it up right at that point Larry.

Apparently, as I understand it, Marlene opened the baby's door into her bedroom saw the baby wasn't there, immediately screamed and peed her pants. There is something that doesn't work there for me. I would go and check the other children's room; I would ask around to see if anybody had seen the baby; I wouldn't just go into an immediate panic like that. I also have to ask and question the reason that Barry Cohen is still with them. If they have been cleared and they have nothing to hide, why does he still have to be there to answer questions?

KING: That's two questions -- let's ask the first. Marlene, why did you react so quickly?

M. AISENBERG: I reacted because, you have a five-month-old baby who can't -- cannot get out of the crib by herself, is only crawling and not walking, and we did check other two children's rooms. As a matter of fact, Steve went and woke Monica up, so William was...

KLAAS: No, you woke Steve up! You woke Steve up with your scream, Marlene! You are changing your story again.

M. AISENBERG: No, I'm not changing my story.

KLAAS: You woke him up with your scream, you are exactly changing your story.

KING: You were there; what happened?

S. AISENBERG: Marc, she is not changing her story. What you are doing is, you are confabulating the facts in your mind to try to make a sense or an order out of something...

KLAAS: Steve, she has said -- she said this on many television shows, Steve. She said she opened the door, the baby wasn't there, she screamed your name, woke you up, peed her pants, and...

M. AISENBERG: And then Steve ran and woke Monica up, and that is right, Steve ran and woke Monica up.

KLAAS: See? Your story is changing. As we speak, your story is changin


Montana





The WIRE TAPS WERE PROVEN A FRAUD. Aisenbergs won a huge settlement against authorities, etc... and Judge stated that there was NO incriminating statements on the wire taps whatsoever and the LE involved should be ashamed for defrauding the courts to receive a continual wire tap & other warrants, etc.

The Aisenbergs were for the most, vindicated through all of this. Sabrina is on my mind a great deal as I have a daughter the same age. She's just finishing grade one now and this story stayed with me. I do believe someone stole Sabrina. There are many cases where children have been kidnapped right out of their homes. There were several, SEVERAL break and enters within a 2 block radius in the month prior to Sabrina's disapperance and ALL families had babies in the home. ALL of them. There was a witness late at night who heard a baby crying behind his bushes/trees leading to a highway, cops would not believe him. There were numerous witnesses that saw a woman at an airport with a child Sabrina's age. The baby kept pushing away from this person the whole flight and crying constantly.

There's much more but that's a quick update for now. I am appalled at the way this family has been treated and how they have been made to look guilty immediately with other evidence including a footprint of a boot on a baby blanket on the floor and a unknown fingerprint on their sliding glass doors leading out to the same row of trees that lead to the highway. I can't imagine how these people feel. But I believe them if that means anything.

Look at the lady that found her daughter (assumed dead child) at a birthday party a few months ago. There are about 10 other cases of child kidnapping right out of their beds that I can think of off the top of my head.

Well, enough said. As you can see I'm passionate about this one. BTW, it was also proven that Steve never had a drug problem at all.

[montana272]

Didn't he pass the poly exam??? And wasn't evidence fabricated against them after there house was wire tapped???

Even Ted Bundy passed a lie detector test. I heard that the Aisnebergs or one of them Failed TWO tests. They hired their own person to do the tests and then they passed. That is what I heard anyway.

[montana272]

"It seems to me that it would be far easier to enter a residence and snatch a baby from its crib, than to try to take a baby from a hospital nursery --- and just think of all the security measures that have been put in place to try to prevent that."

Not really. There are a lot of people at a hospital, coming in and out going in and out. You don't recognize every single employee. Some you don't work with but some who have taken over other people's shifts...

Most kidnappers don't hang around the house after they kill the child or hang around to practice writting a ransom note to get just the right words for a ransom.

[montana272]

"However, transcripts and tapes in murder cases can sometimes turn out to not be the compelling evidence that Prosecutors portray them to be. A notable case in point is that of Steve and Marlene Aisenberg, a Florida couple whose baby Sabrina vanished without a trace back in 1997. Local Prosecutors were convinced the couple were responsible and obtained a Court order to wiretap the couple’s home. Lacking evidence to indict on murder charges, Federal Prosecutors picked up the case, indicting the Aisenbergs on charges of lying to Federal authorities. The news Media soon had transcripts of conversations between the couple that resulted in the American public vilifying the couple as responsible for the murder of their infant. However, once the actual tapes were scrutinized in Court by a Federal Judge, those snippets of conversations published in the Media could not be heard. The Judge then dismissed the charges and the Aisenbergs won a $2.9 million dollar settlement against the government for Court costs. Yep another article said that it was to pay legal fees. Is there some other article where they won money for someone "fabricating" a story and they won damages for defermation?????

From americanmafia.com

My question is did they win money "only to cover court costs"

It makes it sound like just the money to cover the court costs attorney fees from these allegations. It doesn't sound like they won extra money for defermation thou? I am confused.

On this case yes the media went nuts and should not have done that.

[HollywoodBound]

I don't understand why Klaas starts yelling 'No, you woke Steve up! You woke Steve up with your scream, Marlene! You are changing your story again.'
She didn't say that she didn't wake Steve up, all she said was Steve woke Monica up. At some point Steve gets up but that wasn't directly discussed.


KING: That's two questions -- let's ask the first. Marlene, why did you react so quickly?

M. AISENBERG: I reacted because, you have a five-month-old baby who can't -- cannot get out of the crib by herself, is only crawling and not walking, and we did check other two children's rooms. As a matter of fact, Steve went and woke Monica up, so William was...

KLAAS: No, you woke Steve up! You woke Steve up with your scream, Marlene! You are changing your story again.

M. AISENBERG: No, I'm not changing my story.

KLAAS: You woke him up with your scream, you are exactly changing your story.

KING: You were there; what happened?

S. AISENBERG: Marc, she is not changing her story. What you are doing is, you are confabulating the facts in your mind to try to make a sense or an order out of something...

KLAAS: Steve, she has said -- she said this on many television shows, Steve. She said she opened the door, the baby wasn't there, she screamed your name, woke you up, peed her pants, and...

M. AISENBERG: And then Steve ran and woke Monica up, and that is right, Steve ran and woke Monica up.

KLAAS: See? Your story is changing. As we speak, your story is changin


Montana

[montana272]

I think that was because when Mr. Klass had listen to them before, and that was what he was referring to, because you are right. What he is referring to is her past statements as he said before in that transcript. That he has heard the story before and that they did not mention waking up the kids at all to ask them if they had seen their sister. Then after people started asking why she just screamed and peed her pants instead of waking up her husband & kids to see if they had her. The second version of the story adds the waking up of the kids. That is my understanding, that they never said that before. I could be wrong but that is what my understanding was. Also, you would think that the scream if it woke up her husband, why the kids did not wake up from the scream....but then again when my kids were little nothing could wake them up! It is just sad because we will never know. I hope someday they find Sabrina but in my heart I don't think she is still with us. I really do not have anything concrete to believe that they did anything, but in my heart I think they did, and of course that isn't enough to convict, thank Goodness. You need proof. Without a body you will never have anything unless someone confesses. I will say this thou the media has a way of twisting things around. That is why I don't listen to much to what they say. I base my own decisions on listening to the parents, what they have to say and how they act when questions are asked.

[christine2448]

I would like to know how many of you on this board were ever victims of child abuse and or sexual abuse from a parent or a family member? It would be interesting to know of those people who believes that the Ramsey's and the Iisenberg's are innocent? I am a survivor. I don't have a clear cut answer here. I am on the fence in both of the cases mentioned. I just learned about Sabrina while watching A&E this weekend, so know very little about this case. In the Ramsey case I lean heavily towards the IDI theory. In this case, I was leaning heavily on the parents were NOT involved until in the show I heard about the tapes...now reading here, the tapes were not true? I'm still learning and reading. So now I just don't know. FWIW.

[christine2448]

What Mother goes into her childs room, sees the child missing and Instanty YELLS!
I have a 10 month old and a 13 yr old. If Braek (my 10 month old) was not in his crib, I would SCREAM for my older son and husband, if I thought he shoulda been there. No doubt, it would scare the bejesus outta me if he was not in his crib when I went to check on him. I would definitly lose it.

[christine2448]

Those two parents were smiling on national tv

If you are refering to the TV spot when they were getting in the car with one of the detectives, the detective had made a joke, trying to ease some of the tention, I think this is being too nit picky towards the parents. JMHO

[Nocgirl]

Still Sabrina had been missing for only 24 hours when the "joke" was said. There ia absolutely nothing in the world that could make me smile if my baby had been kidnapped. I am a mother of a 2 year old girl and I would be absolutely hysterical if something happened to her. That giggle is suspicious, nothing should be making them smile this soon after a disappearance.

[julianne]

montana272

Great post, well written and thought out.

I do take exception with the Mark Klaas issue, though. I have the utmost respect for him---can't imagine the pain he has gone through. I admire that he has turned it into such a positive in the hopes of finding other children. You said he can "read" people. If that is the case, then I want to know why, in the very beginning of the Jessica Lunsford case, he was publicly suspect of Jessie's father, Mark? Hey, nothing bad on Klaas--LOTS of people were unjustly suspect of Mark Lunsford, for purely superficial reasons, BUT it does mean that Mr. Klaas doesn't know everything. I do not mean any disrespect towards Mr Klaas at all & I want that to be very clear,
so anyone reading please do take it as that.

Also, I think the VAST MAJORITY of people knew Susan Smith was lying immediately. There were no tears!! Never. Not one. Just the appearance of crying, but no tears. That's always a huge red flag.

Also, the part of waking up the kids has ALWAYS been a part of the Aisenberg story. Always. The 2.9 million dollar award was not just for court costs. I have heard that their win allowed them to purchase a new home outside of Florida and in their current state of residence.

I think that using a parents reaction as guilt in this case is a fundamental flaw in your guilt theory. While in the Ramsey case, sure--THEIR reaction can be debated. But immediately upon seeing the empty crib, Mrs. Aisenberg screamed. Now, that may not sit right with you, but it no doubt proves guilt. You said you wouldn't have screamed, but instead you would have checked your other childrens rooms because your 4 yr old often took the baby out of the bassinett. Sabrina wasn't in a bassinett. Sabrina was in a crib. My kids would never have taken their baby brother out of the crib because I instructed them not to because the baby could've very easily gotten hurt. A bassinett--sure, a child could take a baby out w/o injuring them. But the possibility of injuries is FAR greater when a very young child is attempting to remove a baby from a crib---therefore, my kids would've never taken their sibling out of the crib--it's not safe. I would scream if I saw the crib empty, no doubt.

Would you allow your 4 year old to remove your 5 month old infant from a crib? Not a bassinett as you stated earlier...but a crib.

[inquiringmindz]

The name didn't ring a bell with me at first but now I remember the case. I couldn't believe it when it happened. I can remember the mothers plea on the news, it was heartbreaking and unbelievable that someone would steal a child. At first, I didn't think the PDI as I didn't think their could be more than one evil monster killing their children. The Paula Sims case had happened a year earlier near my home town. Only in that case they found her daughters body and thought the PDI but didn't have enough evidence. LE proved it true two years later when it happened again but this time she was convicted. That was the first time I realized a parent could kill their child. Over the years my gullibility factor has declined and now I can't believe how many children are abused, tortured, and killed by the ones who should love them the most. At this point, I'm on the fence.

[christine2448]

Does anyone know the status of the parents now, as far as, are they still actively searching for Sabrina? Is there a website? Are there any composites as to what she may look like now?


Thanks!

ETA...just found this, wanted to post http://www.marvelcreations.com/sabrina.html

haven't investigated yet to see who runs this site. (not the parents, maybe retired LE?)

Here's another informative site:
http://www.karisable.com/sabrina.htm

[christine2448]

This is interesting, I don't remember reading this before...from a Larry King Transcript found here (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0103/07/lkl.00.html)


KING: Well, what do you make of it? No kidnapping, no ransom note, and I understand no forensic evidence of any kind. No fingerprints, nothing; right?

S. AISENBERG: Well, there were. There were fingerprints on our backslider that do not match Marlene or mine. There was a footprint on a bed ruffle in Sabrina's room that doesn't match any of the shoes or size foot of mine...

M. AISENBERG: There's a hair.

S. AISENBERG: ... or in our family. There was a mysterious hair in her crib. Also on the first day and I believe the third day, they brought dogs out to our house that sniffed and indicated that somebody went out through our back door and over a back fence with Sabrina, and since then they haven't commented on that.

M. AISENBERG: There are also two other incidents, attempted break-ins in our neighborhood within two weeks before ours, and also homes with babies

[Shadow205]

Thursday, 28 Sep 2006, 12:33 PM EDT

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=1029939&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[Rle7]

The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office is following new leads this week in the decade-old disappearance of baby Sabrina Aisenberg.

More investigators were added to the case to help chase down the information, said Tony Peluso, a Sheriff's Office attorney and spokesman on the Aisenberg case.

"We have currently some very promising leads," Peluso said Tuesday after a reporter's request for an update on the case. "I'm guardedly optimistic that leads that we have could lead us to solving the mystery of her disappearance."

Sabrina Aisenberg was 5 months old when she was reported missing on Nov. 24, 1997. Her parents, Steve and Marlene Aisenberg, said she was snatched from her crib as they slept in their home on Springville Drive in Valrico.

There has been no sign of Sabrina since.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/12/Hillsborough/Fresh_leads_emerge_in.shtml

[Lurker]

Interesting article. So the leads could clear the parents.

The Aisenbergs are currently living in Bethesda, MD.

[Jodibug]

That is very interesting.

but instead of "I'm guardedly optimistic that leads that we have could lead us to solving the mystery of her disappearance." , I sure wish it said I'm guardedly optomistic that we can bring Sabrina home.

Makes me think that LE does not believe Sabrina is alive.

[Taximom]

Man, it got to me seeing the age-enhanced picture of Sabrina. I can't believe it has been that long already.

I hope they solve it AND bring her home. Is it too much to ask for a miracle?

[laini]

A heads up - This Sat. on 48 Hrs Mystery they are doing the story on Sabrina. I think it is a rerun of an older show, but hopefully they will have some of the recent developments at the end!

[hoppyfrog]

I caught the last part of the show last night.

Her lastest age-progressed sketch is on her NCMEC page at

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=840605&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

Hoppy

[forthelost]

http://www.forthelost.org/saisenberg.html

[meggilyweggily]

I believe the Aisenbergs are probably innocent, and I wish someone would find that baby (probably alive and in elementary school by now) just so everyone can stop saying the Aisenbergs "got away with murder."

But the worst thing, as it stands now? It's just like the Ramsey case in one way: if the Aisenbergs/Ramseys really did harm their daughter, there's no way they'll ever face justice now. The police and the prosecutors screwed everything up and it's too late to prove anything even if the family is guilty. So if they are guilty, they will never go to prison for it. If they're not, no amount of money and apologies can undo the harm that's been done to them.

Having your child get kidnapped is one of the worst things in the world. Still worst is having your child get kidnapped, then getting blamed for it yourself.

[meggilyweggily]

Oh, and to people who say the Aisenbergs must have harmed Sabrina because they "acted guilty" after her disappearance: I do not know how the Aisenbergs acted, but I can tell you that people react to stress in all sorts of different ways. Case in point: earlier this week I swamped my car in a flooded area and it filled up with water. It was in a very rural area with no houses nearby, I did not know exactly where I was, it was close to midnight and the temperatures were below freezing. It became obvious to me that I was in pretty serious danger. I called my father on my cell phone from the car and told him what had just happened, and the water was rising as I spoke to him. And the whole time I was talking to Dad I was laughing fit to burst. Not crying, not screaming, but laughing as if my predicament was the funniest thing in the world. It wasn't that I actually found the situation amusing or that I didn't appreciate the danger I was in -- it was just the way I was reacting at the time.

Things like that are why I look askance at snap judgements on how crime victims "should" behave. Everyone is different.

[southerngal]

I've been lurking here for about a year but this is my first post..so be kind :)

IMO the Aisenbergs are guilty. The polygraphs they took, the first one came back inconclusive, the 2nd one, the police are saying she failed, she is saying it was inconclusive also. Out of all the times that they did shut the garage door, the one time it was left open, this happens? and they claim that there were break-ins in the area where there were small children that lived in the home...if this was going on, I'd make sure, double sure, my house was locked tight at night!

I believe an accident happened, they panicked and covered it up.

[meggilyweggily]

IMO the Aisenbergs are guilty. The polygraphs they took, the first one came back inconclusive, the 2nd one, the police are saying she failed, she is saying it was inconclusive also. Out of all the times that they did shut the garage door, the one time it was left open, this happens?

Polygraphs are not an exact science and there are a lot of things that can blow the results, including sleep deprivation, mental stress and certain medications. This is why they are not admissible in court. I don't put much stock in them.

Etan Patz was abducted by a stranger on the very first day his mother let him walk to the school bus stop alone. This wasn't a coincidence -- his abductor had been stalking him for awhile, and then he saw his opportunity and took it. If it hadn't happened that morning it would have happened at some other time. If (I am just speculating here) someone looking for a baby was stalking the Aisenbergs and Sabrina, of course they would take advantage of the opportunity if one night Steve/Marlene forgot to close and lock all the doors.

[southerngal]

Polygraphs are not an exact science and there are a lot of things that can blow the results, including sleep deprivation, mental stress and certain medications. This is why they are not admissible in court. I don't put much stock in them.

Etan Patz was abducted by a stranger on the very first day his mother let him walk to the school bus stop alone. This wasn't a coincidence -- his abductor had been stalking him for awhile, and then he saw his opportunity and took it. If it hadn't happened that morning it would have happened at some other time. If (I am just speculating here) someone looking for a baby was stalking the Aisenbergs and Sabrina, of course they would take advantage of the opportunity if one night Steve/Marlene forgot to close and lock all the doors.


I would think that they would have at least passed ONE of the polygraphs.

True with the Ethan Patz case, point taken and noted :) BUT "I" just find it very strange that garage door was open, utility door was unlocked, alarm was off, when there were supposed break-ins going on in the neighborhood, plus the dog not barking. Something just doesn't sit right with me on this case.

[Nocgirl]

I saw the last half hour of this episode as well the other night.

I am not convinced the Aisenberg's are totally innocent either. The video that was shot of them laughing and smiling just a few days after their daughters disapperance, is a little awkward. I can tell you that if my baby daughter had disappeared, nothing in the world could make me crack a smile for a long long time.

[meggilyweggily]

Again, I refer you to my own story above, when my reaction to a bad car accident that could have resulted in my death was to burst out laughing. People react to stress and tragedy in all sorts of different ways. I don't think anyone can put a time limit on how long a "normal" person should be expected to cry and scream and rip their own hair out after a tragedy.

To tell another story: Back in 1986, when Michele Dorr disappeared from her backyard pool without a trace, her father had a breakdown a few days later and went to the cops and claimed he had killed her. He described her murder in great detail and begged them to arrest him. Except he hadn't done it. She was abducted by someone else and her father had nothing to do with her disappearance and no knowledge of what happened to her. Her father had just broken down under the stress and, I think, genuinely believed he must have done it.

[christine2448]

I would think that they would have at least passed ONE of the polygraphs.

True with the Ethan Patz case, point taken and noted :) BUT "I" just find it very strange that garage door was open, utility door was unlocked, alarm was off, when there were supposed break-ins going on in the neighborhood, plus the dog not barking. Something just doesn't sit right with me on this case.

Welcome southerngal! Glad to see ya outta lurker mode!

I am with meg on this...Lie Detectors are not reliable in anyway, IMO. I just finished reading, again, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (working on PI License) and I happen to have it on PDF form (220 pgs) if anyone wants to read it, email me and I'll send it on to you.

[christine2448]

I saw the last half hour of this episode as well the other night.

I am not convinced the Aisenberg's are totally innocent either. The video that was shot of them laughing and smiling just a few days after their daughters disapperance, is a little awkward. I can tell you that if my baby daughter had disappeared, nothing in the world could make me crack a smile for a long long time.

The detective cracked a joke to lighten things up...the air was thick.

I don't know whether or not they are involved..but, them smiling, in no way, to me, is evidence. What evidence supports them being involved?

Nice to see this case getting attention again. I have always wondered if it would ever be solved. In the shows that I have seen I have always found that there just wasn't enough evidence to prove to me that they were involved. Same as JonBenet...I am IDI.

[meggilyweggily]

them smiling, in no way, to me, is evidence.

Precisely!

I haven't heard of any hard evidence they were involved, beyond those useless tape recordings that nobody besides the prosecution could hear.

[christine2448]

Sabrina disappeared from her family's resid