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Hurricane
10-12-2009, 03:09 PM
So if this is the case...was the information this guy gave found to have any validaty at all? Do you think it is possable that police just missed finding what they were looking for on the farm, and possably the evidence is still there?

When Garrison’s court appointed attorney on the weapons charge advised him that he could be charged as an accessory to murder he ceased his cooperation with LE.

Hurricane
10-12-2009, 03:10 PM
Ok....So with that said, do you think there is any validaty to the farm being the burial/disposal spot for the women? Do you think that they are buried on the property? You're implying by saying that Garrison, "Let it slip" that it was a true statement; Garrisons directing police to the farm south of Cassville.

Garrison’s information had nothing to do with the Cassville dig in 2003.

Missouri Mule
10-12-2009, 03:21 PM
The GJ3 are all alive and well. I am not speaking of the Robb’s either. Since the deceased have not been named as suspects publicly I cannot do so either.

Your information differs somewhat from the information I had. I was unaware that any of these three people had died, although some have suggested one or more may have. I simply didn't feel the need to pursue them. I am intrigued that there are actually two of the 12 (agreed upon subjects) who are now deceased. I take it that this is confirmed fact. I find that interesting. I take it that one of those two is not the same person we have discussed from the Neosho area. Would I be wrong?

You don't need to answer but I would like to check some other sources to find out who these two people actually are.

Missouri Mule
10-12-2009, 03:24 PM
When Garrison’s court appointed attorney on the weapons charge advised him that he could be charged as an accessory to murder he ceased his cooperation with LE.

That is exactly the same information that one of my sources told me sometime ago.

Missouri Mule
10-12-2009, 03:28 PM
When Garrison gave info to LE leading to the Webster County search the only charges that he faced ahead at that time was unlawful possession of a weapon, and escape from custody. Ten days after his escape from SPD’s custody he raped a 20 yr old college student but was not yet a suspect in that case when he was recaptured ten days after. I doubt that he would try and broker a lighter sentence on a charge which only netted him 3 yrs anyway, by associating himself with friends involved in the abduction/rape/murder of three women when he himself had just committed a rape ten days prior. It seems to me that he would have been better off to have remained quiet, did his 3 yrs, and hoped that he was not recognized in connection with the rape of the college coed. I believe that he had a momentary lack of judgment when he disclosed this information, possibly because his friends had fled Springfield within days of the abduction and were long gone and free. Garrison chose to stay behind in his hometown and everything was good in his mind until he was arrested for possession of a weapon.

Unless I have misread your post you have fingered "Larry" and "Curly" as the two primary culprits. Garrison came after the fact.

Are these guys capable of this crime? Did they have the connections to a place of disposal and all of the rest? From what I know of their background they seemingly had little success in staying out of trouble. Is it not possible that Garrison was making this whole story up out of whole cloth? After all, he had two characters he could lay the blame on. From what I have read of him, nothing he has ever provided has proven to be factual.

Indianagirl
10-12-2009, 03:34 PM
I seem to recall this article having read it a long time ago. Did this gag order ever get further illumination as to its contents and did anything relevant to the case ever materialize? So far as I know the van never turned up and so far as I know nothing ever came of these searches. It is highly significant that “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” was stated indicating that Garrison's information was good information. Yet, so far as I know, nothing that he ever provided turned into anything sufficient to bring charges or other leads leading to a conclusion.

Roye Cole is the current sheriff of Webster County. I think Ron Worsham proceeded him and evidently C.E. Wells was before Worsham. I believe that is the right order of sheriffs in Webster County if that is in any way relevant.

This is one of the things that has nagged me at no end. We have what appears to be very promising leads suggesting a solution to the case and then it seemingly drops off the map with no explanation of what came of it. We know that Garrison is eating off medal plates in one of Missouri's finest penal institutions and yet it would appear that nothing he ever produced in the way of evidence that would point in a specific direction ever came to anything. It might lead a person to believe he got this second or third hand among the underworld grapevine and shared it in an attempt to broker a lighter sentence for the certain convictions he was looking at for his dastardly deeds.

The elder Robb died in prison and I recall reading his obituary in the Spfd N/L. I believe also that his son also died and there is one other son still surviving. I would suppose that the "farm" in question is still in the family. I'm not at all certain how Cox fits in with this scheme of things. And I have no idea who the identities of these 12 suspects are except for speculation or how LE knows sexual assault was the motive unless there was some corroborated information that pointed in that direction. Based on the above excerpt it is more likely than not that Garrison's ostensible relevant information led to that conclusion since no DNA or forensic evidence was ever stated anywhere to my knowledge leading to such a conclusion.

Having said all of the above signifying nothing, I'd sure like to know what Doug Thomas knows about the case where he indicated he knew exactly what went down. What I do believe would make all the difference is that if the SPD would drop the pretense this is merely a missing person case and declare it a triple homicide and get the community involved heavily and let's put this case to bed. Surely there is a solution to be found somewhere. At this rate we will all be dead never knowing what went down that night.


This is the way I look at it and I could be wrong. All four LE agencies believe that sexual assault was the motive. It is not the guaranteed motive. I believe they looked at all possible motives, such as robbery, drugs, etc. and LE was able to rule those out as motives. So, they were left with sexual assault. Thus making it the most likely motive considering the circumstances. Whether what a suspect might have said or an annon. tip helped LE to believe that sexual assault was the most likely motive, I do not know. In the end, I believe sexual assault was garnered as the most likely motive because other motives could be ruled out.

These were 3 attractive women, it was night time, obviously it would be unusual for burglaries to be taking place at night time with the occupants home........So you've got 3 attractive women, alone, kidnapped and no ransom was made.......More than likely the perp(s) wanted the women and nothing else.

kemo
10-12-2009, 03:39 PM
I've been gone for a couple of weeks and I'm happy to see this thread back in action. Some interesting things have come up. Springfield sure had it's share of preditary low-lifes back then. The trouble is that "12 suspects" is an oxymoron. If there are that many, then they aren't really suspects, they are just POI's (persons of interest); people with motive who otherwise can't be ruled out. Cox and Garrison made some statements that would raise a little interest but they could also be your basic jailyard cons.

This reminds me the the old "multiple choice" questions. If you couldn't figure out the answer, the best approach was to consider the "choices" and eliminate any you could and choose the remaining one that was the most probable. The big problem was that "e) None of the above".

Mule, from the "multiple choice" approach, I agree with you that Cox would be my best guess. He was a sexual preditor who was willing to kill, but his is nothing more than a "best guess". There is no real evidence against him.

Except for the "graverobbers" and Bart (if he was one of the 12), It is assumed that none of the suspects knew any of the women. I have argued that this case didn't "fit the pattern" of a "stranger rape". That doen't exclude a "stranger rape" gone bad. There is also the chance that there was a relationship that law enforcement never discovered. It is very possible that Sherill did not have a close friend that she kept fully informed of every male relationship she had. Could she have know one of the 12, (or some other local "low life" ) with LE not knowing about it?

Hurricane
10-12-2009, 03:54 PM
That is exactly the same information that one of my sources told me sometime ago.

On one of the other boards it is often stated that it was Worsham that made Garrison shut up by threatening him with those charges, because that fits with the "conspiracy" angle. That is simply not the case. It was his attorney who advised him to stop his cooperation.

Hurricane
10-12-2009, 03:57 PM
This is the way I look at it and I could be wrong. All four LE agencies believe that sexual assault was the motive. It is not the guaranteed motive. I believe they looked at all possible motives, such as robbery, drugs, etc. and LE was able to rule those out as motives. So, they were left with sexual assault. Thus making it the most likely motive considering the circumstances. Whether what a suspect might have said or an annon. tip helped LE to believe that sexual assault was the most likely motive, I do not know. In the end, I believe sexual assault was garnered as the most likely motive because other motives could be ruled out.

These were 3 attractive women, it was night time, obviously it would be unusual for burglaries to be taking place at night time with the occupants home........So you've got 3 attractive women, alone, kidnapped and no ransom was made.......More than likely the perp(s) wanted the women and nothing else.

I agree, and that is why I feel that the GJ3 or some combination thereof are the number one suspects on the list. Two of the three disappeared from Springfield within days of the abduction.

Missouri Mule
10-12-2009, 04:13 PM
On one of the other boards it is often stated that it was Worsham that made Garrison shut up by threatening him with those charges, because that fits with the "conspiracy" angle. That is simply not the case. It was his attorney who advised him to stop his cooperation.

That was also the information from my source. Specifically, it was that he would be charged as an "accessory after the fact", implying Garrison was not in on the original abduction itself. But did he ever produce ANY reliable information about anything? It does not follow that because the other two left town and he stayed that they were somehow involved. They may simply have decided to leave town having no ties to the community so far as I know.

But we are still back to square one. How did the women get removed from the home by anyone without their leaving something behind that would tie them to the crime?

I have thought long and hard about this dating back to 1992 and my first impression I believe has much potential. It is the "George's" sighting. IF (a mighty big "if"), the women were there then it is altogether possible that the perpetrators never even went into the home and the abductions took place outside the home. If that is possible, perhaps it is also possible that people we have never even looked at; perhaps from the Hanover address and the party followed them home and onto George's. Even the prosecutor wanted this checked out again. The timeline is very problematical but not impossible. That is to say, who were the last people on earth to have seen the women alive? That is always a good place to begin an investigation.

Trooogrit
10-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Unless I have misread your post you have fingered "Larry" and "Curly" as the two primary culprits. Garrison came after the fact.

Are these guys capable of this crime? Did they have the connections to a place of disposal and all of the rest? From what I know of their background they seemingly had little success in staying out of trouble. Is it not possible that Garrison was making this whole story up out of whole cloth? After all, he had two characters he could lay the blame on. From what I have read of him, nothing he has ever provided has proven to be factual.
The story the other two supposedly provided Garrison makes sense if you look at it through the opportunistic rapist definition. These guys are burglars that were also potentially intoxicated. They may not have set out to rape, but the opportunity presented itself and they acted. They fly under the radar because they have no past criminal activity in this area. Now on the other hand, Garrison is a rapist. He did a "stranger rape" and that type of rapist generally commits again. I waiver on him being involved or not, but he may have set the wheels in motion and the other two went along with this "opportunity". Now when Garrison came forward with his story he had a weapons charge against him. This would have been his 3rd strike. So he provides information that gets his charge reduced. He concocts a story that was based partially in fact, with enough information to make it credible, but not enough to find anything to actually prove the other two guilty. If the other two were involved they denied it, and if all three were involved they shut up, because this crime would lock them all up for good if not get them a death penalty. Silence now is a means of survival. I will say, If this group is responsible the two were in way over there head, and they got the hell out of town soon after. Thus leaving the entire community to speculate and allow rumor to run rampant. All of the conspiracy, police misconduct, and crazy stories comes from a crime scene that provided little evidence and tainted by people coming and going, and the complete silence from the perps who know they are in far deeper than they ever intended on being.

Missouri Mule
10-12-2009, 10:07 PM
What you say makes logical sense. On the outside chance I did a quick check of their recent activities and in particular Greene County. Unless I overlooked something, nothing is showing up on them although we know where Garrison is housed. It certainly is a viable theory.

I would say this. Garrison has been in the slammer for a number of years and I'm somewhat surprised that some other inmate has not ratted him out if he has run his mouth as convicts are prone to do and said anything that might incriminate him or the other two. So far as I know, he is not, as Cox is, in "the hole" so he would be among the general population. I stand to be corrected if that is not the case as I didn't check further into him.

Trooogrit
10-12-2009, 11:26 PM
Well It is a theory and I havent been able to disprove it yet. Unfortunately there is no way to know what the truth is without new information. It is a pipe dream to believe that anything the police have will be made public. Someone coming forth with direct information, or a confession is the only thing that can solve this. I wonder if the truth were to come out would they be able to see it versus the numerous rumors that have been passed down over the years. I figure someone might feel the need to clear the conscience before they die, but then again they might already be dead.

monkeymann
10-13-2009, 12:37 PM
So...to finally attempt to answer this theoretical question: Doe's anyone think the Farm and or story attributed to it, had any validaty? Wasn't the farm in question south of Cassville? I would think that that would be a heck of a long and risky drive for the abductors to travel with three kidnap victims in the car. Was this the same "Farm" in which the concrete company dumped their waste at?

Missouri Mule
10-13-2009, 01:39 PM
So...to finally attempt to answer this theoretical question: Doe's anyone think the Farm and or story attributed to it, had any validaty? Wasn't the farm in question south of Cassville? I would think that that would be a heck of a long and risky drive for the abductors to travel with three kidnap victims in the car. Was this the same "Farm" in which the concrete company dumped their waste at?

No, the "Farm" in question is between Rogersville and Northview. The dig down at Cassville was another matter and going on memory it seems like it came as a result of a deathbed confession of some sort. But as I recall, even though there was a lot of heavy equipment brought in to dig up the place nothing ever came that would definitively tie the crime to that site.

What argues against taking the women to Cassville is the distance and time to exit the Springfield area. Getting out east would be a matter of perhaps 10 minutes. Going west out of town, out U.S. 60 would be a matter of perhaps 20 to 30 minutes and then the long drive down to Cassville. I have gone this way a number of times having at one time thinking of retiring there. However, I have lived in the Rogersville area for a number of years and it is much more logical and sensible to go in that direction if one had any intention of avoiding detection. In my younger years I have even walked most of these roads many times. Clearly the Rogersville/Northview area would be the preferred route out of town.

This discusses that dig. The "Farm" and the Cassville dig are in opposite directions.

http://springfield.news-leader.com/specialreports/threemissingwomen/0608-Cassvilleb-115439.html

monkeymann
10-13-2009, 03:05 PM
No, the "Farm" in question is between Rogersville and Northview. The dig down at Cassville was another matter and going on memory it seems like it came as a result of a deathbed confession of some sort. But as I recall, even though there was a lot of heavy equipment brought in to dig up the place nothing ever came that would definitively tie the crime to that site.

What argues against taking the women to Cassville is the distance and time to exit the Springfield area. Getting out east would be a matter of perhaps 10 minutes. Going west out of town, out U.S. 60 would be a matter of perhaps 20 to 30 minutes and then the long drive down to Cassville. I have gone this way a number of times having at one time thinking of retiring there. However, I have lived in the Rogersville area for a number of years and it is much more logical and sensible to go in that direction if one had any intention of avoiding detection. In my younger years I have even walked most of these roads many times. Clearly the Rogersville/Northview area would be the preferred route out of town.

This discusses that dig. The "Farm" and the Cassville dig are in opposite directions.

http://springfield.news-leader.com/specialreports/threemissingwomen/0608-Cassvilleb-115439.html


I used to install satellite systems and I spent a fair amount of time around Rogersville. Also the Fordland area. I agree with you...it would have been much much easier to get out of town quickly by heading east. Aparently the lady that reported the van in the driveway in the early morning hours lived on Grand street if I recall correctly...they could have gone down Grand and gotten onto Cherry and been out of town fairly quickly. And from there I believe they could have taken back country roads all the way into the Rogersville area. I used to travel alot of back roads when installing satellite systems, and that area has some pretty remote, dirt road, hillbilly kind of areas for sure! Especially in the Fordland area.

Missouri Mule
10-14-2009, 04:16 PM
I agree that there is a lot of junk out there on the boards. I just found that cruse ship theory and thought I'd throw it out there.

The cruise ship story is valid. Offhand, I don't know if it has any relevance to the case.

monkeymann
10-14-2009, 07:40 PM
The cruise ship story is valid. Offhand, I don't know if it has any relevance to the case.

If the Cruise Ship story is valid then In my opinion that would put him at the top of the list of suspects....especially if it happened with in a couple weeks of the women's disappearance...wouldn't you think? Did GC have a solid aliby? Was he ever considered a suspect?

Missouri Mule
10-14-2009, 10:01 PM
If the Cruise Ship story is valid then In my opinion that would put him at the top of the list of suspects....especially if it happened with in a couple weeks of the women's disappearance...wouldn't you think? Did GC have a solid aliby? Was he ever considered a suspect?

Well, it is certainly a theory worth exploring. I can tell you that his name came up frequently when talking to various people interested in the case. I was never a big fan of this theory but I didn't discount it completely. There was the matter of the rumor that Suzie had said that Sherrill had dated some kind of businessman and of course according to the lead investigator on "48 Hours" made mention of a "Man behind a big desk with wing tipped shoes." So I guess it is as good a theory as any other. I wouldn't bet the farm on this, however.

As I recall the news reports said she wasn't actively dating at the time. But I'm not sure I put much stock in the news reports any longer since there are seemingly so many inconsistencies and loose ends. Until and unless the SPD decides to share and/or restate known facts already in the public domain that won't compromise the investigation we will forever be plowing the same ground over and over.

monkeymann
10-14-2009, 10:52 PM
I don't know....I guess I just find this to be an overly unique coincidence..."Them being on the same cruise". Then a few weeks later the 3MW disappear. Then years later GC is charged in the JJ Murder case and all this other creepy stuff about him comes to light. Just seems too coincidental! And his propensaty for violence and sexual deveance are right in line for him to be a prime suspect

Missouri Mule
10-15-2009, 12:09 AM
I don't know....I guess I just find this to be an overly unique coincidence..."Them being on the same cruise". Then a few weeks later the 3MW disappear. Then years later GC is charged in the JJ Murder case and all this other creepy stuff about him comes to light. Just seems too coincidental! And his propensity for violence and sexual deviance are right in line for him to be a prime suspect

Well, to be sure, I am no fan of his. I used to see him about everyday where I worked and I heard about every wild thing that was ever said. Some of them may even have been true. So far as I know no one ever really questioned what went on in the J.J. case. The only thing that would ever tie him to this crime is some kind of physical evidence tying himself to the case. Of the 223 known names of Sherrill's clients (yes, I have their names), I would like for any to come forth and claim they actually saw the two together at any time. Then I might believe he was involved. Otherwise they had to have had a very clandestine affair which I strongly doubt. But since the cops have clammed up so tightly we just don't know what to think. Your guess is as good as mine.

monkeymann
10-15-2009, 09:20 AM
Well, to be sure, I am no fan of his. I used to see him about everyday where I worked and I heard about every wild thing that was ever said. Some of them may even have been true. So far as I know no on ever questioned what went on in the J.J. case. The only thing that would ever tie him to this crime is some kind of physical evidence tying himself to the case. Of the 223 known names of Sherrill's clients (yes, I have their names), I would like for any to come forth and claim they actually saw the two together at any time. Then I might believe he was involved. Otherwise they had to have had a very clandestine affair which I strongly doubt. But since the cops have clammed up so tightly we just don't know what to think. Your guess is as good as mine.

Now wait a minute....didn't you say that the two of them being on the same cruise was "Valid". Is that just speculation, or is it a fact?
I remember the GC had aparently stated that the, "Cops would never have anything on him because they were too stupid". So it would stand to reason that he was a person who...at least to some degree...put a little thought and planning into his crimes, as well as someone who had a fair degree of arogance and thought they were smarter than LE. He just didn't count on current DNA technology coming back to haunt him. And he probably wouldn't have ever been caught otherwise. Not saying that GC committed the 3MW crime, but he would definatly be at the top of my list of suspects....if it could be proven that he was on the cruise with Sherrell L.

monkeymann
10-15-2009, 09:29 AM
Also...Is it known if

#1. GC was ever considered a suspect in the 3MW case, by Spfld PD.

#2. If GC is "Now" considered a suspect in the 3MW case by Spfld. PD, after he was arrested for the JJ murder.

#3. GC had an aliby for night the 3MW disappeared.

Missouri Mule
10-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Now wait a minute....didn't you say that the two of them being on the same cruise was "Valid". Is that just speculation, or is it a fact?
I remember the GC had aparently stated that the, "Cops would never have anything on him because they were too stupid". So it would stand to reason that he was a person who...at least to some degree...put a little thought and planning into his crimes, as well as someone who had a fair degree of arogance and thought they were smarter than LE. He just didn't count on current DNA technology coming back to haunt him. And he probably wouldn't have ever been caught otherwise. Not saying that GC committed the 3MW crime, but he would definatly be at the top of my list of suspects....if it could be proven that he was on the cruise with Sherrell L.

I'm satisfied that the information on the cruise is valid information. However, it may have been some period of time before they were abducted. I have no idea when GC was on any cruise. I've just never had any real gut feeling that he was involved unless Sherrill was living on the "wild side" and didn't know his history. A person would have had to been living in a cave not to have known the news in the area during that period. Seems out of character for her. So far as I know she lived a very circumspect life.

Be it far from me to come to his defense. It seemed to me at the time that the cops were constantly looking in his direction ever since the JJ murder. There was really no big mystery in anyone's mind about that crime; only that LE and the justice system seemed unable to act which frustrated everyone and the family was especially devastated. At or about the same time we had other abductions that took place and were never solved. That too, drove everyone about "nuts" speculating what happened. And then we had the attempted abduction of a young girl where he used a rental car but she escaped and he went to the big house for a few years. I doubt he had many defenders in the area.

Two areas that I think are fertile ground to explore would be the George's matter still unresolved and the second has not even been mentioned to any degree but I think worth looking at. Prior to their driving back to the Battlefield address they were at the Hanover party some 57 blocks to the east. That party was broken up at or about 2 AM in the morning. I'd want to know exactly who was at that party and if either or both of the girls had hooked up with any young men who were out for a good time who might have followed them back to Battlefield and then on onto to the Delmar address some 12 miles further NE.

I believe it is customary to talk to the last people who saw the victims alive to properly clear them. Has this ever been done? Not to my knowledge. One or more of them might have been among the three "clean cut looking young men" at George's. It isn't rocket science to suggest that this would be coincidental if true. And it could also explain why no DNA or forensic evidence was found to link anyone to the crime. It may simply be because the perps never went into the home at all. It is altogether possible that a mini party went on outside the home for some time and things got out of hand and they were abducted which could explain why nothing in the home yielded up any good clues. I'm not saying this theory has any legs but it is an area I would want to knock down since we do not know who these 12 suspects are. If we had that information I believe we could have a much better idea who committed this crime because we could then investigate them thoroughly using available internet sources, friends and acquaintances.

Hurricane
10-15-2009, 10:26 AM
Now wait a minute....didn't you say that the two of them being on the same cruise was "Valid". Is that just speculation, or is it a fact?
I remember the GC had aparently stated that the, "Cops would never have anything on him because they were too stupid". So it would stand to reason that he was a person who...at least to some degree...put a little thought and planning into his crimes, as well as someone who had a fair degree of arogance and thought they were smarter than LE. He just didn't count on current DNA technology coming back to haunt him. And he probably wouldn't have ever been caught otherwise. Not saying that GC committed the 3MW crime, but he would definatly be at the top of my list of suspects....if it could be proven that he was on the cruise with Sherrell L.

If you want to confirm whether Sherrill went on a cruise or not why don't you interview the owner of the salon where she worked, Joe Tate? He could tell you if Sherrill had taken time off work at anytime during the 10-12 months prior to that June. If she was at work every day then she couldn't have been on a cruise ship somewhere.

dale417
10-15-2009, 11:00 AM
If you want to confirm whether Sherrill went on a cruise or not why don't you interview the owner of the salon where she worked, Joe Tate? He could tell you if Sherrill had taken time off work at anytime during the 10-12 months prior to that June. If she was at work every day then she couldn't have been on a cruise ship somewhere.

Missouri Mule is correct that the cruise is valid. GC was not mentioned in any connection with the cruise, although I know LE looked at him intensively as a suspect. There were not concrete connections on which to go forward. Hurricane, why did you limit the time-frame to 10-12 months?

Trooogrit
10-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Missouri Mule is correct that the cruise is valid. GC was not mentioned in any connection with the cruise, although I know LE looked at him intensively as a suspect. There were not concrete connections on which to go forward. Hurricane, why did you limit the time-frame to 10-12 months? So Sherrill took a cruise at some point. Carnanahan was not part of the original information. So basically that information is in error and has no relevence?

dale417
10-15-2009, 12:05 PM
Correct Trooogrit. Sherrill took a cruise. GC was not linked to the cruise, but was looked at as a suspect.

Hurricane
10-15-2009, 01:05 PM
Missouri Mule is correct that the cruise is valid. GC was not mentioned in any connection with the cruise, although I know LE looked at him intensively as a suspect. There were not concrete connections on which to go forward. Hurricane, why did you limit the time-frame to 10-12 months?[/quote]

I was being generous with the time frame.

Monkeymann: [quote]“The said that aparently Gerald Carnohan had been on the same cruse ship that Sherrell Levitt was on aprox. 6-weeks prior to her disappearance. Has anyone heard this anywhere else?” Page 10, post #226 of this thread.

Whether she took a cruise or not that far back prior to the abduction or not is immaterial. What clearly can be put to rest due to lack of sufficient evidence is the persistent rumor of she being on a crusie with Carnahan shortly before the abduction. I have no doubt that Carnahan was momentarily considered to be a suspect along with all the other usual suspects. I am sure that he was removed quickly from that list due to lack of evidence and perhaps his whereabouts for that time is known and proven.

In order to keep from going over all the rumors again and again we need to dispose of those when can be proven to not be true.

dale417
10-15-2009, 01:19 PM
In order to keep from going over all the rumors again and again we need to dispose of those when can be proven to not be true.

Hurricane, thank you! The question had been asked before and I wished to add some clarity/validation to what had been stated.

Hurricane
10-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Dale -- document this cruise for me. When exactly did she take this cruise? Did she take this cruise sometime after purchasing the house in April, or does the time frame go back to during the year that she lived in the apartment with Suzie? Or perhaps even before that? How has this been documented to be true?

dale417
10-15-2009, 01:55 PM
Hurricane, the cruise took place before she moved into Delmar and I believe before she moved into the apartment with Suzie. I would have to do some personal questioning to get the exact time frame for you. My personal documentation is an artifact that was brought back from the cruise. I don't have ticket numbers, cruise line, etc. but I do have these items represented as being from that time. That's the best I can give you presently.

Hurricane
10-15-2009, 02:09 PM
Hurricane, the cruise took place before she moved into Delmar and I believe before she moved into the apartment with Suzie. I would have to do some personal questioning to get the exact time frame for you. My personal documentation is an artifact that was brought back from the cruise. I don't have ticket numbers, cruise line, etc. but I do have these items represented as being from that time. That's the best I can give you presently.

So this cruise was taken when she lived in Holiday Hills, prior to March 1991? Could it go all the way back to when she was married to and living in Holiday Hills with Don Levitt, prior to say June 1988?

dale417
10-15-2009, 02:29 PM
Hurricane, off the top of my head, that is the time-frame I recall. As I stated earlier, I would have to ask some others to get the exact date.

Hurricane
10-15-2009, 02:57 PM
Hurricane, off the top of my head, that is the time-frame I recall. As I stated earlier, I would have to ask some others to get the exact date.

Well an approximate date would be helpful in trying to determine if this cruise event had anything to do with the abduction 15 plus months later.

If she and Don Levitt took such a cruise prior to spring 1988 or so, during their marriage then that would help to explain how it was paid for even though we know that he had some debt problems.

After their divorce Sherrill tried desperately to hang on to the house in Holiday Hills, even to the point of bartering haircuts with neighbors for services such as lawn mowing & trimming. She took in Oliveras as a boarder in her home for 18 months in an effort to keep from losing it or having to sell it. Oliveras would know if Sherrill took such a cruise as someone’s guest during that time. She has said that Sherrill didn’t date. Perhaps she even went with Sherrill on a cruise. They not only lived together but worked together also, but it still wouldn’t explain how the cruise was paid for or how it had any bearing on the abduction.

dale417
10-15-2009, 03:37 PM
Hurricane, I have given the approximate date for the determination or rather you have in previous posts. I agree with you and have determined this cruise event did not have any bearing on the possible abduction or whatever it is (no one can exactly label and THAT IS A PROBLEM!). I do not care to elaborate on who she might have gone with on the cruise, except to say it was not her husband, nor Suzie, nor any "gentleman" friend. I don't know who Oliveras is exactly. The cruise could have been paid for by herself,cruises are NOT that expenses nor limited to the stereotypical RICH & Famous. A month's wage could probably take you half-way around the world if you should desire to go. Do I believe the cruise has anything to do with this case? NO! Do I believe the cruise had anything to do with the abduction? NO! Do I feel I have answered Monkeyman's inquiry ( according to your last post p. 10, post #226) YES, more than sufficiently. My sole and only purpose was to answer a question purposed by Monkeyman and addressed by Missouri Mule this morning, to which I have information that corroborates the position.

Hurricane
10-15-2009, 04:10 PM
Hurricane, I have given the approximate date for the determination or rather you have in previous posts. I agree with you and have determined this cruise event did not have any bearing on the possible abduction or whatever it is (no one can exactly label and THAT IS A PROBLEM!). I do not care to elaborate on who she might have gone with on the cruise, except to say it was not her husband, nor Suzie, nor any "gentleman" friend. I don't know who Oliveras is exactly. The cruise could have been paid for by herself,cruises are NOT that expenses nor limited to the stereotypical RICH & Famous. A month's wage could probably take you half-way around the world if you should desire to go. Do I believe the cruise has anything to do with this case? NO! Do I believe the cruise had anything to do with the abduction? NO! Do I feel I have answered Monkeyman's inquiry ( according to your last post p. 10, post #226) YES, more than sufficiently. My sole and only purpose was to answer a question purposed by Monkeyman and addressed by Missouri Mule this morning, to which I have information that corroborates the position.


Dale, I am in agreement with you here. These things continually come up in discussion of this case and dangled out there as if they have some meaning. We are supposed to be looking at the evidence of this case. I fail to see if Sherrill did go on a cruise 15 or more months prior to the abduction how it has any bearing on what happened. Nor do I care who she might have went with except to disprove that her actions had anything to do with what would eventually befall her and the two girls.

Perhaps she treated herself to a cruise shortly after going thru her divorce from Don Levitt. A reason for trying to pin down the time of the cruise is simply from the money angle. All indications are that from shortly after her divorce up until the abduction money was in tight supply. If the choice was between a $500 cruise and next month’s house payment most people would choose to make their payment when they are trying to keep from losing their home of several years. To some degree this cruise could be explained away if she went shortly after her divorce was final, before she knew just how tight things would become.

monkeymann
10-16-2009, 06:26 AM
Alright....First of all Dale 417...You haven't answered anything "More then sufficently". The objective in solving any crime is to rule out all of the possabilities, and for you to imply that GC and Sherrell being on the same cruise has no possable implications regarding the 3MW's disapearance, just because it may or may not have happened close to the timeframe of their disapearance....is not looking at the problem objectivly enough. Sorry...but I'm not dismissing any possabilities. And further,with the past history of GC, as well as the charges he's currently being held on for the JJ murder theres absoutely no way he's being ruled out. To do so would not be good investigative deduction. Until someone can rule him out based on "FACTs" then NO ONE (Dale417) should rule him out as a suspect. Just because the disapearance's may or may not have happened with in a short time period of the cruise...doesn't mean that GC couldn't have been lurking in the background somewhere...look at the guys history for the love of pete. I'm not saying he did it, but without more solid evidance/facts he cant just be so flipantly ruled out. Period.

Indianagirl
10-16-2009, 07:05 AM
Alright....First of all Dale 417...You haven't answered anything "More then sufficently". The objective in solving any crime is to rule out all of the possabilities, and for you to imply that GC and Sherrell being on the same cruise has no possable implications regarding the 3MW's disapearance, just because it may or may not have happened close to the timeframe of their disapearance....is not looking at the problem objectivly enough. Sorry...but I'm not dismissing any possabilities. And further,with the past history of GC, as well as the charges he's currently being held on for the JJ murder theres absoutely no way he's being ruled out. To do so would not be good investigative deduction. Until someone can rule him out based on "FACTs" then NO ONE (Dale417) should rule him out as a suspect. Just because the disapearance's may or may not have happened with in a short time period of the cruise...doesn't mean that GC couldn't have been lurking in the background somewhere...look at the guys history for the love of pete. I'm not saying he did it, but without more solid evidance/facts he cant just be so flipantly ruled out. Period.

G.C. could very well be one of the 12 on the suspect list. We don't know. However, IMO this doesn't fit his MO. In the J.J. case, he was sloppy and left a load of forensic evidence behind. In 92, I don't think a lot of people really understood what DNA evidence was. With that said, IMO if it were G.C. he would have been sloppy and left forensic evidence behind, as he still hadn't been tied to the J.J. case through forensic evidence at the time of the 3MW abduction. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Missouri Mule
10-16-2009, 10:36 AM
I feel compelled to come to Dale's defense here. He has told what he knows and can tell. One should not assume that everything that could be told has been told. As one who personally has seen GC literally dozens of times; perhaps 100 or more times in my own office and who I have heard others constantly beat the drumbeat that he was the one I haven't seen a scintilla of evidence that would link the two together.

Now we know that there were some 223 known clients of Sherrill's who must at one time or another have heard Sherrill speak of anyone she may have been seeing. The police assured us that everyone in the rolodex would or should have been contacted and people being people it seems highly unlikely that nobody would not have heard his name come up at least one time. During that time half of Springfield would have taken their own action being so frustrated over the foot dragging on the JJ case. If anyone had any evidence tying him to Sherrill I am relatively certain it would have seen the light of day early on in the investigation.

Here is what I think. Until and unless we get access to the names of those 12 agreed upon suspects we are just shooting in the dark. Probably the only three certain known suspects would be the three GJ suspects but that went nowhere. The grave robbing case died on the vine as soon as Suzie disappeared. According to information I believe to be 100% reliable two individuals linked to that case were cited by two different officers as being high on the suspect list. For certain Cox is on the list. So I count six. But if a gun were held to my head, would I put GC on the list? I would not. And if a second round were in the chamber and held to my head I would put Cox and "X" at the very top of the list; no question.

Hurricane
10-16-2009, 10:45 AM
Alright....First of all Dale 417...You haven't answered anything "More then sufficently". The objective in solving any crime is to rule out all of the possabilities, and for you to imply that GC and Sherrell being on the same cruise has no possable implications regarding the 3MW's disapearance, just because it may or may not have happened close to the timeframe of their disapearance....is not looking at the problem objectivly enough. Sorry...but I'm not dismissing any possabilities. And further,with the past history of GC, as well as the charges he's currently being held on for the JJ murder theres absoutely no way he's being ruled out. To do so would not be good investigative deduction. Until someone can rule him out based on "FACTs" then NO ONE (Dale417) should rule him out as a suspect. Just because the disapearance's may or may not have happened with in a short time period of the cruise...doesn't mean that GC couldn't have been lurking in the background somewhere...look at the guys history for the love of pete. I'm not saying he did it, but without more solid evidance/facts he cant just be so flipantly ruled out. Period.

Monkeymann, you probably should be PO’ed at me and not Dale. He only asked a question about why I limited my time frame of the cruise search to the prior 10-12 months before the abduction. Dale has been the only one who may in fact be able to document that Sherrill was on a cruise, more than 15 months prior.

“The objective in solving any crime is to rule out all of the possabilities” that are not supported by the evidence. There are no facts in the public record that indicate Carnahan as a possible suspect long term. For all we know, Carnahan may have been living in China 9-10 months out of the year in June 1992, as he had been prior to his arrest in the Jackie Johns murder. It’s not publicly known exactly when he moved to China for the company business. You can bet one thing; during his incarceration he has probably been interviewed and grilled about what he might possibly know about a lot of crimes. No charges have been filed against him in the 3MW case. But until you bring forth some facts that indicate him as a suspect you can’t expect anyone to spend a lot of time discussing him in this case.

monkeymann
10-16-2009, 11:56 AM
Monkeymann, you probably should be PO’ed at me and not Dale. He only asked a question about why I limited my time frame of the cruise search to the prior 10-12 months before the abduction. Dale has been the only one who may in fact be able to document that Sherrill was on a cruise, more than 15 months prior.

“The objective in solving any crime is to rule out all of the possabilities” that are not supported by the evidence. There are no facts in the public record that indicate Carnahan as a possible suspect long term. For all we know, Carnahan may have been living in China 9-10 months out of the year in June 1992, as he had been prior to his arrest in the Jackie Johns murder. It’s not publicly known exactly when he moved to China for the company business. You can bet one thing; during his incarceration he has probably been interviewed and grilled about what he might possibly know about a lot of crimes. No charges have been filed against him in the 3MW case. But until you bring forth some facts that indicate him as a suspect you can’t expect anyone to spend a lot of time discussing him in this case.


Oh...I'm not PO'd by any means...He just sounded a little condescending, thats why I might have sounded PO'd. But really I'm just trying to help sort things out with this case as everyone else is. And when someone states that GC and Ms. Levett were on the same cruise...I'm sorry, with GC's past history it can't help but send up a red flag to me....and I quite frankly can't understand how it couldn't to anyone else. It definatly connects the two in a way that no other suspect other then poss. the grave robbers might have. IE. Proof of Direct or Indirect Connection between these suspects and the 3MW. All you have with the others is mere speculation. Even though the above mentioned theoretical possability could also fall under mere speculation, the difference is the "Direct or Indirect Connection". Ie. Grave robbers knew one at least one of the girls, and GC was on the same cruise ship as Ms. Levette. No one else has ever shown to have had any direct or indirect contact with any of them...except for Bart...He would have to also be included in the people who had proven direct contact with 3MW.

Hurricane
10-16-2009, 12:53 PM
Oh...I'm not PO'd by any means...He just sounded a little condescending, thats why I might have sounded PO'd. But really I'm just trying to help sort things out with this case as everyone else is. And when someone states that GC and Ms. Levett were on the same cruise...I'm sorry, with GC's past history it can't help but send up a red flag to me....and I quite frankly can't understand how it couldn't to anyone else. It definatly connects the two in a way that no other suspect other then poss. the grave robbers might have. IE. Proof of Direct or Indirect Connection between these suspects and the 3MW. All you have with the others is mere speculation. Even though the above mentioned theoretical possability could also fall under mere speculation, the difference is the "Direct or Indirect Connection". Ie. Grave robbers knew one at least one of the girls, and GC was on the same cruise ship as Ms. Levette. No one else has ever shown to have had any direct or indirect contact with any of them...except for Bart...He would have to also be included in the people who had proven direct contact with 3MW.

The condescension was directed at me, not you. That’s what keeps everyone sharp and on point here. I would say that most everyone who posts here wants to deal only in what can be proven as fact. That is why you don’t see posts here like you would see on Topix, etc. Everyone who participates here knows the facts of the case fairly well. It’s sort of like Jim Rome says on his national sports talk radio program when he allows callers to come in, “Have a take but don’t suck.”

You are accepting as fact what you have read on another forum or blog; that Carnahan and Sherrill were seen on a cruise ship together approximately 6 weeks prior to the abduction. Dale said that he can document as fact that Sherrill went on a cruise with someone other than a gentleman friend, more than 15 months prior to June 1992. Nowhere has it been established that Carnahan was on that same cruise ship. How does that connect the two?

If you were to pursue the possibility that Carnahan was present then I’m sure that everyone would listen to your facts.

dale417
10-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Whoa! Boy did I come across in a major manner that I definitely did not intend! My apologies to each of you. Hurricane, I didn't mean to sound condescending (which on a re-read comes across as being). My only intent was to state as much as I possibly could regarding the cruise issue with what I personally knew. I was also trying to work within a perimeter of keeping confidential others who could validate, as I cannot, in good conscience speak for them. Again I apologize for the stink.

Hurricane
10-16-2009, 02:35 PM
Whoa! Boy did I come across in a major manner that I definitely did not intend! My apologies to each of you. Hurricane, I didn't mean to sound condescending (which on a re-read comes across as being). My only intent was to state as much as I possibly could regarding the cruise issue with what I personally knew. I was also trying to work within a perimeter of keeping confidential others who could validate, as I cannot, in good conscience speak for them. Again I apologize for the stink.

Dale, no apology necessary. No offense taken on my part.

monkeymann
10-16-2009, 03:01 PM
The condescension was directed at me, not you. That’s what keeps everyone sharp and on point here. I would say that most everyone who posts here wants to deal only in what can be proven as fact. That is why you don’t see posts here like you would see on Topix, etc. Everyone who participates here knows the facts of the case fairly well. It’s sort of like Jim Rome says on his national sports talk radio program when he allows callers to come in, “Have a take but don’t suck.”

You are accepting as fact what you have read on another forum or blog; that Carnahan and Sherrill were seen on a cruise ship together approximately 6 weeks prior to the abduction. Dale said that he can document as fact that Sherrill went on a cruise with someone other than a gentleman friend, more than 15 months prior to June 1992. Nowhere has it been established that Carnahan was on that same cruise ship. How does that connect the two?
If you were to pursue the possibility that Carnahan was present then I’m sure that everyone would listen to your facts.

Now wait a minute...I wouldn't be talking about GC if it wasn't stated earlier by others on "THIS" forum that it had been proven that GC was on that cruise. I was by no means relying on anything that was posted on topix, however I will say that regardless of what forum information might be posted on, every piece of it needs to be examined. Also, I have been following this case pretty much since it happened in 92 and I'm fairly versed in the known facts of the case as well as most of the angles. Sometime I just see something that I think needs to be looked at closer or from a different perspective

Hurricane
10-16-2009, 03:26 PM
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Now wait a minute...I wouldn't be talking about GC if it wasn't stated earlier by others on "THIS" forum that it had been proven that GC was on that cruise. I was by no means relying on anything that was posted on topix, however I will say that regardless of what forum information might be posted on, every piece of it needs to be examined. Also, I have been following this case pretty much since it happened in 92 and I'm fairly versed in the known facts of the case as well as most of the angles. Sometime I just see something that I think needs to be looked at closer or from a different perspective

Here’s Dales post concerning Carnahan as a suspect:

Correct Trooogrit. Sherrill took a cruise. GC was not linked to the cruise, but was looked at as a suspect. Post #278, page 12 of this thread by dale417.

Trooogrit
10-16-2009, 03:34 PM
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Now wait a minute...I wouldn't be talking about GC if it wasn't stated earlier by others on "THIS" forum that it had been proven that GC was on that cruise. I was by no means relying on anything that was posted on topix, however I will say that regardless of what forum information might be posted on, every piece of it needs to be examined. Also, I have been following this case pretty much since it happened in 92 and I'm fairly versed in the known facts of the case as well as most of the angles. Sometime I just see something that I think needs to be looked at closer or from a different perspectiveWell one thing that I can tell you is factually you will find no better place to get background information than right here. If we eliminate the rumors through known fact we can keep focus. There is a lot of information out there that is simply a waste of time, nothing substaniates it. Having a theory or a suspect is fine, but getting factual information to back it up is necessary to make it vialble. Then you should expect to be scrutinized, beccause this case has nine kinds of rumors that have grown in 17 years. Gerald Carnahan was a bad guy, Robert Cox was a bad guy, the AB has a lot of bad guys, there are others in the area that never have been mentioned, but what ties them to this case?

monkeymann
10-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Ok...When I read some of the earlier posts I saw where it said that the cruise was valid. I didn't see where it was mentioned that it hadn't been confirmed that GC was on the cruise. I thought they were saying that it had been confirmed that he had been on the cruise...I didn't realize when I read it the first time that they were talking about Sherrell.

mae
10-16-2009, 06:34 PM
Well one thing that I can tell you is factually you will find no better place to get background information than right here. If we eliminate the rumors through known fact we can keep focus. There is a lot of information out there that is simply a waste of time, nothing substaniates it. Having a theory or a suspect is fine, but getting factual information to back it up is necessary to make it vialble. Then you should expect to be scrutinized, beccause this case has nine kinds of rumors that have grown in 17 years. Gerald Carnahan was a bad guy, Robert Cox was a bad guy, the AB has a lot of bad guys, there are others in the area that never have been mentioned, but what ties them to this case?
Trooogit, do you/anyone else know about the veracity of the eagle connection? I posted awhile back, but I got no response. I can repost.

Trooogrit
10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Trooogit, do you/anyone else know about the veracity of the eagle connection? I posted awhile back, but I got no response. I can repost.I vaguely remember something with the eagle location, but I am not from that area so someone from Springfield, might be able to help you. It might be a good idea to repost

Missouri Mule
10-17-2009, 12:12 AM
I vaguely remember something with the eagle location, but I am not from that area so someone from Springfield, might be able to help you. It might be a good idea to repost

I'm probably going to stir up a hornet's nest here but I want to raise two issues. One relates to this post. Since you stated "location" I will just say that a story was spun one time which I have never disregarded of what might have taken place at a certain location. I won't say anymore at this time except that I can categorically state that the SPD know all about the story and location. I wouldn't bet the farm on this but it probably needs to be run to ground. As usual the police have clammed up so we don't know if they ran it down or not.

The second is one that ought to be explored is the reward and WHO posted that reward. Now this is why this is important. The last I heard it had reached $100,000. The reason it is potentially important is that it has happened in other cases such as this that the PERPS will actually post these large rewards. They have nothing to lose because they hold the key to the crime but more importantly to generate a lot of bogus leads to tie the police departments in knots running down all of these leads not even counting all the phony confessions that come out of the woodwork. I have no idea what happened to that reward fund or whether it has been withdrawn. Perhaps someone knows the answer to that question or who posted the reward.

Trooogrit
10-17-2009, 03:30 AM
I'm probably going to stir up a hornet's nest here but I want to raise two issues. One relates to this post. Since you stated "location" I will just say that a story was spun one time which I have never disregarded of what might have taken place at a certain location. I won't say anymore at this time except that I can categorically state that the SPD know all about the story and location. I wouldn't bet the farm on this but it probably needs to be run to ground. As usual the police have clammed up so we don't know if they ran it down or not.

The second is one that ought to be explored is the reward and WHO posted that reward. Now this is why this is important. The last I heard it had reached $100,000. The reason it is potentially important is that it has happened in other cases such as this that the PERPS will actually post these large rewards. They have nothing to lose because they hold the key to the crime but more importantly to generate a lot of bogus leads to tie the police departments in knots running down all of these leads not even counting all the phony confessions that come out of the woodwork. I have no idea what happened to that reward fund or whether it has been withdrawn. Perhaps someone knows the answer to that question or who posted the reward. As far as the Eagle CONNECTION I am unfamiliar with the tip, and vaguely remember discussion about it. I will have to review but I believe it was in this thread.
THe anonomous donation was $40,000.00. I believe Smitty's gave $50,000.00 and some local donations and the National Inquirer gave the remainder to make a total of 100,000.00 reward.

Hurricane
10-17-2009, 09:21 AM
As far as the Eagle CONNECTION I am unfamiliar with the tip, and vaguely remember discussion about it. I will have to review but I believe it was in this thread.
THe anonomous donation was $40,000.00. I believe Smitty's gave $50,000.00 and some local donations and the National Inquirer gave the remainder to make a total of 100,000.00 reward.

I have been told that corporate money such as the money contributed by Smitty's, the National Enquirer, and a local TV station is pledged to the reward fund, and is not collected from them until needed. These pledges usually have a time restrant to them as well; only good for so long. The only actual money in the reward fund is what was donated by the public in dribs and drabs.

Missouri Mule
10-17-2009, 10:02 AM
Thanks for clearing up the reward/contributions angle. I believe we can safely rule that off the table as a contributing factor with none of those entities having any ties or incentive to muddle the investigation.

If only we knew who the 12 suspects were that would enable investigation of their backgrounds to narrow down the list. And I don't know how we would discuss it on this thread regardless.

Let me raise the issue of "George's" again. Is there any consensus this has legs or has it been totally eliminated by all of the four investigative agencies? So far as I know it is not impossible for the timeline to work and I have read or heard that Sherrill's favorite restaurant was in fact "George's." If that is the case, it is not illogical that the waitress would have recognized her had she come in that night. Thoughts?

kemo
10-17-2009, 02:46 PM
The trouble with big rewards is that it encourages "wild guesses". If you make one and it turns out to be "right", you've struck it rich, if it doesn't pan out, you've lost nothing but LE wastes a lot of time following up on it.

Realistically, who is going to pass up on a 40K reward but go for a 100K one? Nobody. If there anyone out there who knows something and is not "involved" they would have come forward by now. Probably the most effective "reward" is the exchange of information on some "bigger" crime for a "break" on some susequent beef. The fact that nothing has come up is evidence that this crime was confined to a very tight circle. I'm guessing a circle of "1".

monkeymann
10-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Thanks for clearing up the reward/contributions angle. I believe we can safely rule that off the table as a contributing factor with none of those entities having any ties or incentive to muddle the investigation.

If only we knew who the 12 suspects were that would enable investigation of their backgrounds to narrow down the list. And I don't know how we would discuss it on this thread regardless.

Let me raise the issue of "George's" again. Is there any consensus this has legs or has it been totally eliminated by all of the four investigative agencies? So far as I know it is not impossible for the timeline to work and I have read or heard that Sherrill's favorite restaurant was in fact "George's." If that is the case, it is not illogical that the waitress would have recognized her had she come in that night. Thoughts?

I've wondered about the George's theory too....If it has any merit to begin with. I've also wondered if Sherrell was even home when the girls got home. I've wondered if she went out later that night and may be brought someone home with her, or had someone follow her home. I've also thougt about the scenereo with George's. If they all three were there, one of them might have had words with someone there, who might have then subsequently followed them home. I had thought that may be they decided to get out of the house for a while either because the fumes from the refinishing of the chest of drawers were too intense, or because the girls came home late and wanted to go out and get something to eat after a night of partying.

Indianagirl
10-17-2009, 05:50 PM
Assuming the direction the girls traveled on the way to Delmar from the graduation parties, was George's on the way home? Or would they have needed to divert their route to go to George's?

monkeymann
10-17-2009, 06:48 PM
Assuming the direction the girls traveled on the way to Delmar from the graduation parties, was George's on the way home? Or would they have needed to divert their route to go to George's?

Georges is aprox. 10-Blocks North of Delmar on Glenstone.

Missouri Mule
10-17-2009, 07:16 PM
Assuming the direction the girls traveled on the way to Delmar from the graduation parties, was George's on the way home? Or would they have needed to divert their route to go to George's?

It is a short distance from the Delmar address but there is no reason why they all three might not have met there together leaving plenty of time for the waitress to have seen them. After eating something and getting in better shape, they could then have gone home in all three vehicles. And that might explain why Sherrill's vehicle was all the way in the garage and her car keys in her purse. These "clean cut young men" might have followed them home and Sherrill went into the home while the girls and these guys continued to party or converse outside the home. At some point Sherrill may have come out to check on them. Perhaps they all went in and were preparing for bed and these "clean cut men" showed up later at the front door and were let in.

None of these theories are all encompassing but until and unless we know who the agreed upon suspects are we are reduced to educated guesses. It is altogether possible that these young men had previously been in the home and they could explain away their DNA or other forensic evidence.

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with any theory because of the obvious holes in any possible scenario.

Indianagirl
10-17-2009, 07:29 PM
So just to clarify, George's would not have been on the route directly to Delmar. If they went to George's, say from the parties, they would have gone out of their way to get there? Even though it's a short distance from Delmar, it still would have been out of their way?

Missouri Mule
10-17-2009, 07:40 PM
So just to clarify, George's would not have been on the route directly to Delmar. If they went to George's, say from the parties, they would have gone out of their way to get there? Even though it's a short distance from Delmar, it still would have been out of their way? I don't think the time from the intersection of Delmar and Glenstone and driving straight to George's would have been significantly different in the time expended. They would logically have come up Glenstone going north after turning off Sunshine would be my best guess. They would simply have continued north a short distance to get to George's. The time they would have had to spend driving into the driveway, getting out of the car and into the house would probably have taken as much time as it would have been to drive straight onto George's. It is .9 mile and 2 minutes from the Delmar address to George's according to Mapquest.

monkeymann
10-17-2009, 07:58 PM
I agree...They would have had plenty of time to even stop by the Delmar address before going to George's. The Delmar address is about a half a block...if even...off of Glenstone. It would have been only a couple of minute drive to George's from the Delmar address. I would be interested to hear the "George's" story again. As I recall a waitress stated that she was sure that she saw them 3MW in George's early that morning...but thats about all of the story that I've heard...other then the part inwhich Sherrell was trying to "Calm" Susie Streeter. I never understood what the whole story was. Can someone please refresh this story for clairifacation purposes.

Indianagirl
10-17-2009, 08:13 PM
I agree...They would have had plenty of time to even stop by the Delmar address before going to George's. The Delmar address is about a half a block...if even...off of Glenstone. It would have been only a couple of minute drive to George's from the Delmar address. I would be interested to hear the "George's" story again. As I recall a waitress stated that she was sure that she saw them 3MW in George's early that morning...but thats about all of the story that I've heard...other then the part inwhich Sherrell was trying to "Calm" Susie Streeter. I never understood what the whole story was. Can someone please refresh this story for clairifacation purposes.

The Kansas City Star
June 24, 1992
Edition: MID-AMERICA
Section: MID-AMERICA
Page: C1

Waitress recalls seeing women on morning of disappearances Three missing since June 7 in Springfield. Author: The Associated Press
Article Text:
SPRINGFIELD - A waitress says she saw a mother and her daughter at a late-night restaurant shortly before they disappeared more than two weeks ago, police said Tuesday.
Sgt. Mark Webb said the waitress told investigators that Sherrill Levitt, 47, and Suzie Streeter, 19, were accompanied by a third female with long, brown hair.
That description matches Stacy McCall, an 18-year-old friend of Streeter's who also vanished in the early hours of June 7. Investigators think the women were abducted. Their cars, purses, keys, cash and other items were found at Levitt's unlocked home in central Springfield.
The waitress at George's Steak House, a few blocks from the home, first spoke with investigators Sunday night, authorities said.
The waitress identified Levitt and Streeter as regular customers. She said the two were at the restaurant sometime between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and possibly as late as 4 a.m. on June 7. The waitress saw men she did not recognize talking to the three women, she told police.
George's Steak House usually is packed with an after-hours crowd on weekend nights. The waitress is the only one who has reported that Levitt and her daughter were there on June 7, police said.
"If somebody else was there and saw them, we'd like to talk to them," Webb said.
Police have established that Streeter and McCall left a party in nearby Battlefield around 2:30 a.m., driving separate cars to Levitt's home.
The teen-agers had graduated from high school the night before they vanished.
About 30 Springfield police officers and the FBI say they haven't found a trace of the three women after early June 7.
Copyright 1992, 1996 The Kansas City Star Co.
Record Number: 103120

monkeymann
10-17-2009, 09:10 PM
The Kansas City Star
June 24, 1992
Edition: MID-AMERICA
Section: MID-AMERICA
Page: C1

Waitress recalls seeing women on morning of disappearances Three missing since June 7 in Springfield. Author: The Associated Press
Article Text:
SPRINGFIELD - A waitress says she saw a mother and her daughter at a late-night restaurant shortly before they disappeared more than two weeks ago, police said Tuesday.
Sgt. Mark Webb said the waitress told investigators that Sherrill Levitt, 47, and Suzie Streeter, 19, were accompanied by a third female with long, brown hair.
That description matches Stacy McCall, an 18-year-old friend of Streeter's who also vanished in the early hours of June 7. Investigators think the women were abducted. Their cars, purses, keys, cash and other items were found at Levitt's unlocked home in central Springfield.
The waitress at George's Steak House, a few blocks from the home, first spoke with investigators Sunday night, authorities said.
The waitress identified Levitt and Streeter as regular customers. She said the two were at the restaurant sometime between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and possibly as late as 4 a.m. on June 7. The waitress saw men she did not recognize talking to the three women, she told police.
George's Steak House usually is packed with an after-hours crowd on weekend nights. The waitress is the only one who has reported that Levitt and her daughter were there on June 7, police said.
"If somebody else was there and saw them, we'd like to talk to them," Webb said.
Police have established that Streeter and McCall left a party in nearby Battlefield around 2:30 a.m., driving separate cars to Levitt's home.
The teen-agers had graduated from high school the night before they vanished.
About 30 Springfield police officers and the FBI say they haven't found a trace of the three women after early June 7.
Copyright 1992, 1996 The Kansas City Star Co.
Record Number: 103120


Sounds like a the waitress was pretty sure about who she saw!! Said the two were "Regulars". I would think this is one of the more solid leads if the waitress was correct in who she saw.

Trooogrit
10-17-2009, 09:56 PM
The problem with this tip is it came in almost 10 days after the crime occurred. This is a long time to wait before coming forward making it easily scrutinized. The police put considerable effort into trying to prove that they were there. unfortunately, there is no record of them being in the place that night like reciepts, credit cards etc. It was reported that the women waved at people that they apparently knew while there. NONE of those people came forward claiming seeing them there. If Sherrill was a popular hairdresser and the girls were popular I would think that someone in that place would be able to verify that they were there. The lead went absolutely no where in 92. Until someone actually can substantiate it I would say it is useless. One thing that stands out in my mind is that Suzie had a stomach ache and this is verified by her friends, so I would think going home and going to bed would be have been there intention.

kemo
10-17-2009, 09:59 PM
The "Georges" lead would be huge and SPD should have checked it out. If the "clean cut" young men existed, they would have come forward, unless they were involved. The waitress should have been able to identify the "ticket" for that table. There are many ways patrons who were there at that time could have been located: credit card records, appeals through the media, have someone interviewing people late the following Sat. night etc.

LE invested a lot of resources on the "porch lady" van lead. This lead would have been better since they should have been able to get descriptions and perhaps composites of the Perps IF, at its a big IF, the lead was worth pursueing. Apperantly the lead was not.

The decision to "clear" the grave robbers, to pursue the "Van" lead and not the "Georges" lead and the decision not to contact everyone on the "roledex" are all "calls" that someone in charge of the investigation made. We can't "judge" the wisdom of these decisions because we have little information.

Missouri Mule
10-17-2009, 11:36 PM
The Kansas City Star
June 24, 1992
Edition: MID-AMERICA
Section: MID-AMERICA
Page: C1

Waitress recalls seeing women on morning of disappearances Three missing since June 7 in Springfield. Author: The Associated Press
Article Text:
SPRINGFIELD - A waitress says she saw a mother and her daughter at a late-night restaurant shortly before they disappeared more than two weeks ago, police said Tuesday.
Sgt. Mark Webb said the waitress told investigators that Sherrill Levitt, 47, and Suzie Streeter, 19, were accompanied by a third female with long, brown hair.
That description matches Stacy McCall, an 18-year-old friend of Streeter's who also vanished in the early hours of June 7. Investigators think the women were abducted. Their cars, purses, keys, cash and other items were found at Levitt's unlocked home in central Springfield.
The waitress at George's Steak House, a few blocks from the home, first spoke with investigators Sunday night, authorities said.
The waitress identified Levitt and Streeter as regular customers. She said the two were at the restaurant sometime between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and possibly as late as 4 a.m. on June 7. The waitress saw men she did not recognize talking to the three women, she told police.
George's Steak House usually is packed with an after-hours crowd on weekend nights. The waitress is the only one who has reported that Levitt and her daughter were there on June 7, police said.
"If somebody else was there and saw them, we'd like to talk to them," Webb said.
Police have established that Streeter and McCall left a party in nearby Battlefield around 2:30 a.m., driving separate cars to Levitt's home.
The teen-agers had graduated from high school the night before they vanished.
About 30 Springfield police officers and the FBI say they haven't found a trace of the three women after early June 7.
Copyright 1992, 1996 The Kansas City Star Co.
Record Number: 103120

I have to say this is the first time I have ever seen it reported that the women could have been there as late as 4 PM. That leaves oodles and gobs of time that they could have been there meaning that the timeline is not at all critical.

I must have watched the "48 hours" tape at least 25 times. And as early as shortly after it first aired in 1992 I found the waitress highly credible. Why would she lie? Why would she be mistaken if they were regular customers? Surely she would distinguish between someone who looked like her and someone else.

But for the purpose of argumentation, let us suppose the waitress was mistaken and it wasn't Sherrill or Suzie. It seems perfectly reasonable that as much publicity as this case had generated a look alike would have revealed herself to knock this story down. That never happened. We had an earlier sighting at a convenience store. The clerk was certain that Sherrill was there but that was knocked down when the actual woman came in to identify herself plus the clerk across the street also said it wasn't her. This "lead" occupied a lot of press space in the early beginning but the George's sighting never, in my opinion, received the attention it deserved. And furthermore, it in no way obviates the later sighting of the Porch Lady. If the story is in fact true, then we would have three "clean cut young men" who would have arguably been the last people known to have seen the women alive. Why didn't any of them, if it wasn't Sherrill and Suzie, come forth to knock the story down? And finally, we have the prosecutor stating explicitly that he wanted this story nailed down tight as he was not satisfied it was investigated properly.

All-in-all, I am inclined to believe the story especially now that we know they could have been there as late as 4 AM, which as I said, I had never seen before.

The truth is that the K.C. paper reporting exceeded the Springfield reporting where far too many promising leads simply appeared and then were dropped and not explained away. At one time I had every one of the Springfield papers and read and reread them many, many times for the slightest clue as to what was missed. To this day, I am more confused than I have ever been. But with the K.C. story, and the 4 AM time, if a gun were held to my head, I'd say it is the best lead yet. Those three "clean cut young men" could easily have been among the group at the Hanover party who followed the women home and then met them at George's. Things got out of hand and the women disappeared. It wouldn't be the first time something like this would have occurred. Were any of the Hanover group fully cleared or is any of them among the 12 agreed upon suspects? We don't know.

Missouri Mule
10-17-2009, 11:46 PM
The problem with this tip is it came in almost 10 days after the crime occurred. This is a long time to wait before coming forward making it easily scrutinized. The police put considerable effort into trying to prove that they were there. unfortunately, there is no record of them being in the place that night like reciepts, credit cards etc. It was reported that the women waved at people that they apparently knew while there. NONE of those people came forward claiming seeing them there. If Sherrill was a popular hairdresser and the girls were popular I would think that someone in that place would be able to verify that they were there. The lead went absolutely no where in 92. Until someone actually can substantiate it I would say it is useless. One thing that stands out in my mind is that Suzie had a stomach ache and this is verified by her friends, so I would think going home and going to bed would be have been there intention.

Your argument is perfectly valid but let me put a slightly different spin on it. If these women were not Sherrill and Suzie and if these look alike women waved at people they apparently knew why didn't any of those people ever come forth to say that they were someone else? All it would have taken would have been one customer to have gone to the police and said the waitress was mistaken because they recognized "Jane Doe" in the restaurant and it definitely wasn't Sherrill or Suzie. Then the story would have been knocked down without any question. I am puzzled to this day why no one ever bothered to make known what they knew especially if they either knew Sherrill or Suzie or two look alikes and simply set the record straight. This story occupied virtually all of the television time and new print during that time. A person would have had to been living in a cave not to know the importance of such a lead if they were from the area.

The stomach ache is a valid argument but it is also true that alcohol on an empty stomach will also cause an upset stomach and merely a good meal will often settle things down. Who among us has not stopped in an early morning eatery to get a good helping of eggs, sausage, biscuits and gravy after a night on the town? I know I certainly did years ago. Sherrill may simply have looked at Suzie and rather than dragging out some leftovers simply packed all three into her car and went to George's for a good meal. Sure beats reheating cold pizza from the refrigerator.

monkeymann
10-18-2009, 12:20 AM
I agree that even though we have all gone round and round with this case over the past few years, that if this lead is true, then it HAS to be the strongest lead we've got to date. Not only does it help establish a time line, it also gives us a starting point for the investigation. Missouri Mule, where are you getting the number (3) as the number of men that were at Georges? I didn't see anywhere where it listed an actual number. The article stated "Men", implying that there was more then one man talking to the 3MW.
I wonder if the police gathered all of the reciepts for the business for that night? Wouldn't it be something if one of the perp's paid with a credit card and the police never checked Georges reciepts for the night. Probably didn't happen that way...surely it couldn't be that easy. However...stranger things have happened.
It seems like a more plausable scenereo to me:
1.) Girls attend graduation party
2.) Girls "Possiably" have a little to drink
3.) Girls go to Sherrell's house
4.) All three go to Georges for food
5.) Girls are approached by some men who are unknown to them, or known?
6.) Possiably women don't want to be hit on by the men and words are exchanged
7.) Men follow women home when they leave
8.) Women disappear

This might explain the story regarding Sherrell trying to calm Susie down when they're leaving Georges.
It also might explain why the men decided to committ the act. May be they decided to get back at the women for rebuffing their advances.
It could all be as simple as that. No big conspiricy, No crazy theorys, Just a random event that got out of hand and ended up bad.
Just some things to think about.....................

monkeymann
10-18-2009, 12:24 AM
The above scenereo would also explain why it didn't matter that the girls weren't suppose to be at Sherrell's house that night....Because it didn't matter. The events that were put into motion happened after they left Georges...Not the party, Not someone following from the party, or from anywhere other then Georges.
I think it could be plausable.....I seems to make a heck of a lot more sense then any of the other theorys...at least for now!

monkeymann
10-18-2009, 12:33 PM
I've also had another thought.....

Regarding the "Early Morning Sighting" by the lady sitting on her porch.

I believe the lady lived on Grand Street if I'm correct....(Someone please clarify this if I'm incorrect)....My question is this:

Why did the van pull into the driveway momentarily. Did it pull out and continue traveling the same way it was originally going, or did it turn around and go back in the direction it came? What was the purpose of the van stopping in the driveway I wonder?

Also...If someone did indeed follow the 3MW home from Georges they would have had to have waited a period of time before they made their move to the house. I say this because once the women came home, they aparently took off their make up and went to bed. I would think this would have taken at least a half an hour to 45-mins. So my point is this. If the girls left the party at 2am (Ish), and arrived at home at aprox. 2:30-2:45am, it would have been at least 3:00am or later when they got to Georges. Tack on another hour to eat...(If they did indeed end up eating....I thought they might have been so bothered by the men they encountered that they left with out eating)....but if they did eat, this would put them back home at around 4:00am or a little later. Add another half hour to 45-mins. for the 3MW to take make up off and get into bed, it would probably be close to 5:00am when they were abducted.

Missouri Mule
10-18-2009, 03:02 PM
I've also had another thought.....

Regarding the "Early Morning Sighting" by the lady sitting on her porch.

I believe the lady lived on Grand Street if I'm correct....(Someone please clarify this if I'm incorrect)....My question is this:

Why did the van pull into the driveway momentarily. Did it pull out and continue traveling the same way it was originally going, or did it turn around and go back in the direction it came? What was the purpose of the van stopping in the driveway I wonder?

Also...If someone did indeed follow the 3MW home from Georges they would have had to have waited a period of time before they made their move to the house. I say this because once the women came home, they aparently took off their make up and went to bed. I would think this would have taken at least a half an hour to 45-mins. So my point is this. If the girls left the party at 2am (Ish), and arrived at home at aprox. 2:30-2:45am, it would have been at least 3:00am or later when they got to Georges. Tack on another hour to eat...(If they did indeed end up eating....I thought they might have been so bothered by the men they encountered that they left with out eating)....but if they did eat, this would put them back home at around 4:00am or a little later. Add another half hour to 45-mins. for the 3MW to take make up off and get into bed, it would probably be close to 5:00am when they were abducted.

I essentially concur with your timeline of events. They would have had to be gone by NLT about 5:20 AM in order not to be seen in the early morning twilight.

As to an earlier question the number of men at George's, I can't cite where I saw that. Perhaps I am remembering incorrectly. We know it was more than one.

On the van sighting, it almost certainly was on Grand. The reason it had to turn around is because Grand does not extend across the U.S. 65 bypass. Had the van continued, it would have "T'd" and it could only have gone north or south. I would look at a mapquest to get the sense of this. It would have gone back to Oak Grove, turned right/north to Cherry, which would go completely out of town. If it continued it could have gone all the way out to "B" which runs north and south from Rogersville to Northview. There would have been virtually no traffic going this way. A person leaving the Delmar address would very likely assume that Grand was a through street out of town. That is why the turnaround was necessary when it became evident it didn't. I'm guessing it went out to "B" and then approximately to Shiloh Road. Again, a mapquest will reflect why this would the logical route.

As to the George's scenario, what I don't understand is why not all of the customers who could be identified through credit card receipts or other means were not contacted in order to confirm or knock down this sighting. Were they? We don't know. We have never to my knowledge been informed by the police department why they discounted this possible sighting except they didn't believe it happened or was not credible. If in fact that the waitress extends the time all the way to 4 AM, it seems perfectly credible to me.

But this is just a theory among other theories. Any other possible combination of things may have occurred but it is evident that until and unless all possible scenarios are looked at and eliminated; much the same way suspects are eliminated that the investigation was not properly handled. One cannot simply say "I don't think it happened this way" and proceed to discount it.

But in the end our hands are tied because we do not possess the list of the 12 suspects. We can probably identify only one for certain who would be Cox. I'm not at all certain we can say any of the others are definitely on the agreed upon list of 12 suspects as stated in the news article that all four agencies who have had the opportunity to have looked at the case believe are viable suspects. From what I have given to believe, nothing that "Moe" has volunteered has proven to be accurate. So we don't even know if he is on the list. So if Cox is on the list and all can agree, who are the remaining 11 suspects? I can only guess.

kemo
10-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Monkeymann,You are correct, the fact that the girls made it home and had time to get ready for bed argues against anyone following them home from George's. If some young men they knew, who they had met at George's came back and were "let in", I would have expected Stacy to put her pants back on. The "disturbed" bind suggests the possibility that someone drove into the driveway after the girls were ready for bed, but if they were "let in", it would seem they were of no interest to Stacy ,ie they (he, she ?) were friends or relatives of Sherill not boys Stacy's age (unless it was some boy she didn't want to see).

Nothing I have read would indicate that the reported interaction between the "clean cut men" and the women was anything other than friendly, in fact my impression was that they were "together"; presumably eating together, The article above does not say this directly. Is there any better account of what the waitress claimed she saw?

I have been skeptical of "porch lady" but if you look at Google Earth, you will see that, for someone not very familiar with Springfield, E. Grand would be a good means of getting out of town to the east. Once you got to around "porch lady's," block however, it would become obvious that E Grand ends at the freeway and you would have to turn around and go back to S Oak Grove. This proves nothing but it does add a little credibility to her "sighting".

Mule (or anyone else), Perhaps you could clear something up for me. How important was Suzie's testimony to the prosecution of the Grave Robbers? You suggested that the case went "down the tubes" but was it because the "star witness" disappeared? We know the Grave Robbers were "cleared" but the "coincedence" of Suzie presumably being murdered one week before she was to testify is "worrysome".

monkeymann
10-18-2009, 05:18 PM
I've wondered about the Grave Robber angle as well. Depending upon what level of charges the grave robbers were facing, and how much jail/prison time one or more of them might have been facing...who know's what they were capable of. One of them might have had enough of a criminal record that it might have sent them to prison if they were convicted. If this were the case then I can see where this might lead to murder. I wonder if they already knew where Susie and Sherrell lived?

monkeymann
10-18-2009, 05:23 PM
When I was a kid I lived less than a block from Grand & Oak Grove. I agree that this would have been a relitively discrete way to take out of town. I didn't know for a fact that Grand didn't go through, but I thought that Cherry did. I wish we knew who the "Porch Lady" was. I'd like to be able to re-interview her regarding the van siteing. I also wish we knew who the waitress at George's was for the same reason.

wfgodot
10-18-2009, 05:29 PM
I've always thought the Grave Robber angle is not one of motive, but of access.

Indianagirl
10-18-2009, 06:09 PM
The Kansas City Star
July 2, 1992
Edition: MID-AMERICA
Section: MID-AMERICA
Page: C2

Inquiry goes on in missing-women case Police to question man, but they doubt that he is involved. Author: The Associated Press
Article Text:
SPRINGFIELD - A man accused of vandalizing a tomb will be questioned in the disappearance of three women, but police said Wednesday that they expect to eliminate him as a suspect in the missing-persons case.
The 21-year-old man was arrested Monday in Mundelein, Ill., and was being held Wednesday in the Lake County Jail. Authorities haven't said when he'll be returned to Springfield.
Capt. Tony Glenn said detectives needed to confirm the man wasn't involved in the disappearance of Sherrill Levitt, 47; Suzie Streeter, 19; and Stacy McCall, 18.
Investigators became interested in the man shortly after the women vanished from Levitt's home early June 7. The man and two others were charged last week with felony institutional vandalism. They are accused of breaking into a mausoleum at Springfield's Maple Park Cemetery on Feb. 21 and stealing a skull and some bones.
One of the other accused vandals is a former boyfriend of Streeter, who gave a statement to officers investigating the vandalism.
"We interviewed a ton of people in that case. She was one of them," Glenn said.
Streeter's statement was insignificant in the vandalism case, and it "has nothing to do with her missing now," Glenn said. Police have said her former boyfriend, 20, sold 26 grams of gold teeth fillings from the skull at a Springfield pawn shop for $30.
The ex-boyfriend and the third alleged vandal, 19, were questioned extensively in the disappearances, and both are cleared as suspects, Glenn said.
Investigators say the 21-year-old arrested in Illinois isn't a Springfield resident, but he is thought to have been in Springfield on June 7.
Copyright 1992, 1996 The Kansas City Star Co.
Record Number: 104731

This article was printed on July 2, 1992 and indicates the three were charged with a felony the previous week. So, that would have been after the abduction. I don't see a motive in this area nor any connection to the abduction.

Trooogrit
10-18-2009, 06:58 PM
The "Georges" lead would be huge and SPD should have checked it out. If the "clean cut" young men existed, they would have come forward, unless they were involved. The waitress should have been able to identify the "ticket" for that table. There are many ways patrons who were there at that time could have been located: credit card records, appeals through the media, have someone interviewing people late the following Sat. night etc.

LE invested a lot of resources on the "porch lady" van lead. This lead would have been better since they should have been able to get descriptions and perhaps composites of the Perps IF, at its a big IF, the lead was worth pursueing. Apperantly the lead was not.

The decision to "clear" the grave robbers, to pursue the "Van" lead and not the "Georges" lead and the decision not to contact everyone on the "roledex" are all "calls" that someone in charge of the investigation made. We can't "judge" the wisdom of these decisions because we have little information.

Be careful what you believe, the graverobbers were not cleared. They were looked at intensively, but not eliminated. I am sure they are 3 of the 12. You can only go so far. They were questioned and surveillance was put on them and they were polygraphed.

"The former boyfriend 20 apparently sold the gold filling for $30.00 at a Springfield pawn shop. A crime stoppers tip led to the arrest in early March.

Police sources say investigators extensively questioned the former boyfriend and conducted up to 48 hours of surveilance on him after the abductions.

Police also checked into the possibility of cult activity involving the 3 men but found no evidence." NL July 1, 1992

As far as Levitt's customer list, they were not ignored and a large amount of them were contacted.

"Interviews with Levitt's hair salon clients and the young women's friends will continue through the weekend." NL JUne 12, 1992

The Georges sighting.
"A waitress at Goerge's Steakhouse says she saw Levitt, Streeter, and a young brunette in the restaurant between 1 and 3 a.m." NL June 23, 1992.

Reasons behind the police not believing the tip to be credible.

"Police are skeptical that the sighting of the three at George' steakhouse on June 7 said Worsham and Webb. The timing of the sighting and the clothing they were supposedly wearing is inconcistent with known FACTS"
NL July 6, 1992


THE Van Sighting was not reported until June 24th

"On June 24th the witness called the police. But even after the investigator took a report, the incident was forgotten for a month in mounds of other reports on the case.
Why?
"It was another van sighting not thought to be significant enough to warrant reassignment at the time," Lt Mike Brazeal said." NL August 17, 1992

You are correct we have little information, that is why I dont believe most of the hearsay that is out there.

kemo
10-18-2009, 09:12 PM
It sounds like it was a Grand Jury that Suzie was supposed to have testified at and which appears to have subsequently indicted the Grave robbers (including Mike Kovacs, Suzie's ex-boyfriend). This article makes the case that Suzie's Testimony wasn't important and Sprigfield LE checked them out very "extensively" before clearing them.

You have to give the PD credit for basic competence but I recall that there was some controversy of the "Chief''s" decision to "clear" them. That doesn't jibe with this news story. It comes down to the question of how solid was the basis for clearing them?

I believe quite strongly that this was a "Victim knew the perp" crime. Obviouly we have debated this issue ad nauseam and, short of additional information, we will get nowhere, Still I think the investigation should have started with the "Grave Robbers".

Trooogrit
10-18-2009, 09:28 PM
It sounds like it was a Grand Jury that Suzie was supposed to have testified at and which appears to have subsequently indicted the Grave robbers (including Mike Kovacs, Suzie's ex-boyfriend). This article makes the case that Suzie's Testimony wasn't important and Sprigfield LE checked them out very "extensively" before clearing them.

You have to give the PD credit for basic competence but I recall that there was some controversy of the "Chief''s" decision to "clear" them. That doesn't jibe with this news story. It comes down to the question of how solid was the basis for clearing them?

I believe quite strongly that this was a "Victim knew the perp" crime. Obviouly we have debated this issue ad nauseam and, short of additional information, we will get nowhere, Still I think the investigation should have started with the "Grave Robbers".

It did start with the grave robbers, the former boyfriend that wasnt a grave robber and the older brother Bartt, we dont have the details of that, but they would be the "likely" suspects. To be honest I dont think 3 20 year old punks could keep something like this quiet, and none of them had been in real trouble up to that point, so I believe they would have cracked. Plus you have 3 passed polygraphs. Even with the dispute about verocity of polygraphs 3 of them passed is long odds.

Indianagirl
10-18-2009, 09:37 PM
It sounds like it was a Grand Jury that Suzie was supposed to have testified at and which appears to have subsequently indicted the Grave robbers (including Mike Kovacs, Suzie's ex-boyfriend). This article makes the case that Suzie's Testimony wasn't important and Sprigfield LE checked them out very "extensively" before clearing them.

You have to give the PD credit for basic competence but I recall that there was some controversy of the "Chief''s" decision to "clear" them. That doesn't jibe with this news story. It comes down to the question of how solid was the basis for clearing them?

I believe quite strongly that this was a "Victim knew the perp" crime. Obviouly we have debated this issue ad nauseam and, short of additional information, we will get nowhere, Still I think the investigation should have started with the "Grave Robbers".

Kovaks wasn't one of the grave robbers, Recla was.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 12:17 AM
I really wonder if the grave robber group was capable of this crime. I have wondered though, if it were a "Sexually Motivated" crime, why wasn't it committed in the house. I've wondered about this point a lot. Why were the women removed from the house? It seems like this would be the most risky thing a perpetrator could do in terms of getting caught. It would make more sense from a criminal stand point to force your way into the house and committ the crime in the house...if it were a sexually motivated crime.
However, since the 3MW were removed from the house, and there didn't appear to be any evidence of a struggle or rape having taken place in the house, It really makes it look like the crime was a "Getting Rid of the 3MW" type of crime.
Has anyone other then me thought about this particular angle?

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 12:21 AM
Course I guess it could have eventually ended up being both a "sexually motivated" crime as well as a "get rid of the 3MW" crime after they were taken from the house.
However, if the initial motivation for the crime was not sexual, as a lot of people have thought over the years, but instead was to make the women disappear for what ever reason, then I believe the list of suspects could be narrowed down considerably.

Missouri Mule
10-19-2009, 12:22 AM
The Georges sighting.
"A waitress at Goerge's Steakhouse says she saw Levitt, Streeter, and a young brunette in the restaurant between 1 and 3 a.m." NL June 23, 1992.

Reasons behind the police not believing the tip to be credible.

"Police are skeptical that the sighting of the three at George' steakhouse on June 7 said Worsham and Webb. The timing of the sighting and the clothing they were supposedly wearing is inconcistent with known FACTS"
NL July 6, 1992

This bugs the heck out of me. What "facts" are not consistent? If the sighting could have been as long as until 4 PM, that doesn't rule it out. As far as the clothes go, it seems that a change of clothing might have occurred prior to them going there.

The NL says between 1 and 3 AM. Yet the other article from the the K.C. Star says could have been as late as 4 AM. The reporting is inconsistent; not the facts in my view. From the K.C. Star:

"The waitress identified Levitt and Streeter as regular customers. She said the two were at the restaurant sometime between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and possibly as late as 4 a.m. on June 7."

However, the NL article is dated July 6, 1992 and the K.C. Star report was dated June 24, 1992. So on the surface, it would appear the NL report was or should have been more accurate than the earlier K.C. Star report. I'm not sure why there are two separate versions of this but it would have been helpful if the NL simply had stated that an earlier report the women were there until as late as 4 AM was not accurate as stated by the police. This is absolutely critical to understanding the timeline of the case. I don't consider the clothing as particularly important; however I view the timeline as ultra critical.

I have to believe, or would like to believe, that someone in the SPD reads these threads from time to time and could take the time to simply clear these kinds of inconsistencies up. What possible harm could there be? This is not information known only to the perps but should be public information. I just find it very frustrating to sort through these kinds of fuzzy "facts." My $0.02.

Trooogrit
10-19-2009, 10:18 AM
This bugs the heck out of me. What "facts" are not consistent? If the sighting could have been as long as until 4 PM, that doesn't rule it out. As far as the clothes go, it seems that a change of clothing might have occurred prior to them going there.

The NL says between 1 and 3 AM. Yet the other article from the the K.C. Star says could have been as late as 4 AM. The reporting is inconsistent; not the facts in my view. From the K.C. Star:

"The waitress identified Levitt and Streeter as regular customers. She said the two were at the restaurant sometime between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and possibly as late as 4 a.m. on June 7."

However, the NL article is dated July 6, 1992 and the K.C. Star report was dated June 24, 1992. So on the surface, it would appear the NL report was or should have been more accurate than the earlier K.C. Star report. I'm not sure why there are two separate versions of this but it would have been helpful if the NL simply had stated that an earlier report the women were there until as late as 4 AM was not accurate as stated by the police. This is absolutely critical to understanding the timeline of the case. I don't consider the clothing as particularly important; however I view the timeline as ultra critical.

I have to believe, or would like to believe, that someone in the SPD reads these threads from time to time and could take the time to simply clear these kinds of inconsistencies up. What possible harm could there be? This is not information known only to the perps but should be public information. I just find it very frustrating to sort through these kinds of fuzzy "facts." My $0.02.

Well here are some more reasons I have never taken the tip very serious.

This sounds a little less than regular customers........

"The steak house was filled with the bar crowd, employees have told police since the investigators learned of the possible sighting a week ago.
The waitress said that Levitt and Streeter had been there before, but not at least for a couple months. Customers and at least one other employee agreed." NL June 24,1992


This sounds like they were covering the same ground we are right now.


"We have had sightings (at an Apco station and George's Steak house), It is absolutely critical to the investigation that we validate these sightings, and that is difficult to do. You don't have cash reciepts, a credit card that shows some convenient time and place. In that sense there is a questioning. We look at the credibility-- not that people are giving us bogus information, but we must establish credibility, so that information means something to us." Police Chief Terry Knowles NL June 26, 1992

This sounds to me like the waitress and the sighting and possible date might be in error.

"Springfield Police say a man who was thought to have talked to three women at a restaurant early on the morning they disappeared was not there that morning and does not know the women" NL July 1, 1992

Indianagirl
10-19-2009, 10:32 AM
This bugs the heck out of me. What "facts" are not consistent? If the sighting could have been as long as until 4 PM, that doesn't rule it out. As far as the clothes go, it seems that a change of clothing might have occurred prior to them going there.

The NL says between 1 and 3 AM. Yet the other article from the the K.C. Star says could have been as late as 4 AM. The reporting is inconsistent; not the facts in my view. From the K.C. Star:

"The waitress identified Levitt and Streeter as regular customers. She said the two were at the restaurant sometime between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and possibly as late as 4 a.m. on June 7."

However, the NL article is dated July 6, 1992 and the K.C. Star report was dated June 24, 1992. So on the surface, it would appear the NL report was or should have been more accurate than the earlier K.C. Star report. I'm not sure why there are two separate versions of this but it would have been helpful if the NL simply had stated that an earlier report the women were there until as late as 4 AM was not accurate as stated by the police. This is absolutely critical to understanding the timeline of the case. I don't consider the clothing as particularly important; however I view the timeline as ultra critical.

I have to believe, or would like to believe, that someone in the SPD reads these threads from time to time and could take the time to simply clear these kinds of inconsistencies up. What possible harm could there be? This is not information known only to the perps but should be public information. I just find it very frustrating to sort through these kinds of fuzzy "facts." My $0.02.

I think the clothing is a big issue. I don't see why Stacy would change clothes, go to George's, then come back to Delmar and put the shirt she was wearing at the parties back on? As we know the shirt Stacy was wearing at the parties disappeared with her. When she got ready for bed, it appears she was still wearing the same shorts from the parties because her jewelry was placed in the pockets of those shorts.

Missouri Mule
10-19-2009, 10:42 AM
Well here are some more reasons I have never taken the tip very serious.

This sounds a little less than regular customers........

"The steak house was filled with the bar crowd, employees have told police since the investigators learned of the possible sighting a week ago.
The waitress said that Levitt and Streeter had been there before, but not at least for a couple months. Customers and at least one other employee agreed." NL June 24,1992


This sounds like they were covering the same ground we are right now.


"We have had sightings (at an Apco station and George's Steak house), It is absolutely critical to the investigation that we validate these sightings, and that is difficult to do. You don't have cash reciepts, a credit card that shows some convenient time and place. In that sense there is a questioning. We look at the credibility-- not that people are giving us bogus information, but we must establish credibility, so that information means something to us." Police Chief Terry Knowles NL June 26, 1992

This sounds to me like the waitress and the sighting and possible date might be in error.

"Springfield Police say a man who was thought to have talked to three women at a restaurant early on the morning they disappeared was not there that morning and does not know the women" NL July 1, 1992

Well, I would agree. That makes it must less likely.

Sometimes I really could kick myself for sending all of those N/L articles I had amassed over the months and years onto a national syndicated writer back in the 1990s when I believed I had exhausted every idea I could come up with. I would have been able to have found this quote you have furnished. My thanks for clearing that up. In view of this I agree the waitress did not know the women as well as the "48 hour" piece suggested if she hadn't seen them in two months.

I was thinking of this yesterday and it occurred to me although I ate at a local restaurant yesterday I couldn't tell anyone who was sitting at the next table if asked. My thinking was that if he waitress was quite familiar with the women and especially Sherrill she could hardly have errored in identifying someone she saw every day for example. I am a creature of habit and when I go into this restaurant they know automatically what I am going to order and set the drinks on the table before I have even sat down. Somehow in my mind I thought the waitress was as familiar with Sherrill as is the local diner who serves me. Obviously my thinking was wrong.

Sooooo,,,,, Where are we now? Back to square one so far as I can see. What we don't know and will never know short of having an inside into the investigation who can furnish the names of those 12 suspects we are reduced to a guessing game. One thing I am about as certain as I can be is that two of the original suspects were still believed to be prime candidates by two experienced officers. That information came to me via an impeccable source. The problem with it is that it makes little sense but if they had reason to believe it then they would have be considered among the 12 suspects. I believe that Hurricane has stated that two of the 12 are now deceased. I don't know who they are. Does anyone care to volunteer who they might be? (I don't think a dead person can sue for liable.) What I believe absolutely is that if we knew who the remaining 10 suspects were we could be process of elimination, motive and opportunity pare it down to who had an interest in abducting the women. Without those names we are at an impasse in my opinion because we will never know what the police know.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 10:44 AM
I have always wondered if there was anything to the "Date" the 3MW disappeared. On graduation night. I wonder if this had any segnificance? Or weather it was mearly a coincidence.
I still think that it makes sense that someone from the last party might have followed them home. Course, there are a lot of other things that make sense as well. It just seems to be a closer fit. I mean, we know for a fact that the girls were at a graduation party. It was the last place we know for a fact they were at other then the house, before they disappeared. I've always thought that it was probably someone who knew them. It would make more sense.

Missouri Mule
10-19-2009, 10:51 AM
I think the clothing is a big issue. I don't see why Stacy would change clothes, go to George's, then come back to Delmar and put the shirt she was wearing at the parties back on? As we know the shirt Stacy was wearing at the parties disappeared with her. When she got ready for bed, it appears she was still wearing the same shorts from the parties because her jewelry was placed in the pockets of those shorts.

Not necessarily. She may have changed into some clothing she had in her overnight case but intended to wear the shorts to the park the next day in a more informal setting. It would only have taken a matter of a few minutes to change out of her shorts into something a little more suitable for the restaurant. She merely placed the items she intended to take with her back into the shorts for the next day. I do this, for example, when I take items out of my shorts (which I wear most of the time in Texas) into long pants when I go to Sunday church gatherings. The same things I need with me in the shorts I also need in the slacks such as my comb, cell phone, keys and the like. It only takes a minute anyway.

The clothing that the girls wore to the nightly celebrations were probably covered with smoke residue and possibly beer and other things one might engage in during a night of partying and she simply freshened up for the restaurant but wanted the more informal clothing the next day when people wear their "grubbies" (is that the word?) to places where they are going to get wet and the like. After the day at White Water she would likely want to put on the much cleaner clothing for the trip back to Springfield. It would only have been worn but for a short time had they gone to George's.

Missouri Mule
10-19-2009, 11:06 AM
I have always wondered if there was anything to the "Date" the 3MW disappeared. On graduation night. I wonder if this had any segnificance? Or weather it was mearly a coincidence.

I still think that it makes sense that someone from the last party might have followed them home. Course, there are a lot of other things that make sense as well. It just seems to be a closer fit. I mean, we know for a fact that the girls were at a graduation party. It was the last place we know for a fact they were at other then the house, before they disappeared. I've always thought that it was probably someone who knew them. It would make more sense.

Are you referring to a scheduled date for either or both of the girls? I'm not altogether clear on the meaning.

What I think is more likely than not is that if two unattached young girls were out at a party where the beer was flowing that any number of young revved young males would have had a natural interest in either or both of them. If I were the police I would have made a point of finding all of those young males and interviewing them about their alibis. Any of them might be among the 12 suspects. Without a doubt the last people to have seen the women alive should automatically top the list of these 12 suspects.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 11:36 AM
Are you referring to a scheduled date for either or both of the girls? I'm not altogether clear on the meaning.

What I think is more likely than not is that if two unattached young girls were out at a party where the beer was flowing that any number of young revved young males would have had a natural interest in either or both of them. If I were the police I would have made a point of finding all of those young males and interviewing them about their alibis. Any of them might be among the 12 suspects. Without a doubt the last people to have seen the women alive should automatically top the list of these 12 suspects.

I guess I was trying to think too abstract...I had a thought that if someone had planned on killing Sherrell and Susie on her graduation night as a way of getting even with them. Something like a close personal vendetta. It was just a passing thought...probably doesn't have any bearing on anything.
I agree though that if the alcohol was flowing as I'm sure it was at a "Graduation" party, then that would definatly be an angle. Young men drinking, who may or may not have actually "Graduated that night", at the party with the other people who did graduate that night. Or it could have just as easily been someone who did graduate with them. We've definatly seen in the past were alcohol has lead people into doing horrible things....it wouldn't necessarily have to be some deranged stalking killer, it could have just as easily been someone who followed them home from the party.
I still can't get over why the women were removed from the house if it was a sexually motivated crime. Removing them from the house sounds more like a getting rid of the women type of crime. Although removing them to another place that offers a greater comfort zone for the abductors would make sense as well. However, if sexual motivations were the angle, I would think they would have just done it right there in the house, and moved on, rather then taking them all somewhere else...unless they planned on carrying their "party" out a lot longer.

Indianagirl
10-19-2009, 11:47 AM
"Investigators say they have a group of suspects, but Routh won't say more. Two highly investigated men, both now in state prisons, still haven't been ruled out.
"I don't feel three women can be abducted out of a house and no one know anything about it," said Routh, who was a patrol officer when the women disappeared."

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
June 11, 1997

It appears these are 2 of the 12 suspects.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 11:59 AM
"Investigators say they have a group of suspects, but Routh won't say more. Two highly investigated men, both now in state prisons, still haven't been ruled out.
"I don't feel three women can be abducted out of a house and no one know anything about it," said Routh, who was a patrol officer when the women disappeared."

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
June 11, 1997

It appears these are 2 of the 12 suspects.


And I would think that even though the police may have said that other people were cleared as suspects....they probably weren't. Alot of times the police will say that just to see if someone then goe's ahead and lets their guard down and ends up doing something that gets them caught.

I would think that the "Brother" would still be considered a suspect as well, so there is a possiable 3d suspect.

I wonder how the police came to the number 12. It seems like an awful lot of suspects.

Also, remember the report/rumor...(not sure which it turned out to be)...about the pictures missing in some of the picture frames.
Was this ever proven to be anything tangeable. I've often thought about that too. If it had any bearing on who the suspect/s might have been.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 12:02 PM
Also...I saw a picture of the house that was taken, I believe, the day of or day after the disappearance. It showed two young men walking in front of the house...I think there was also a police car in it. Who were those young men?

Missouri Mule
10-19-2009, 12:16 PM
"Investigators say they have a group of suspects, but Routh won't say more. Two highly investigated men, both now in state prisons, still haven't been ruled out.
"I don't feel three women can be abducted out of a house and no one know anything about it," said Routh, who was a patrol officer when the women disappeared."

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
June 11, 1997

It appears these are 2 of the 12 suspects.

That's a real good find. I'm guessing we are looking at Cox and "Moe." Certainly they were highly investigated and were in state prisons; one in Missouri and the other in Texas.

I was going to comment on this earlier. Since, to my knowledge, there is no shred of evidence any "sexual assault" took place inside or immediately outside the home but that all four agencies agreed that is what took place, and since both these individuals have a long history of this conduct they would have to be seriously considered. And since the only way the police could have arrived at the motive of sexual assault it follows that someone who knew what took place had to roll on someone else or did it himself. However, the fly in that ointment is that to my knowledge, nothing that "Moe" has ever stated was found to be factual although I don't know that to be completely true. He might have given enough information to indicate that he was at least partially reliable. He could have rolled on Cox, "Larry" and "Curly" which is why they were subjects of the grand jury. Otherwise I am at a loss to understand how these agencies concluded it was sexual assault in the absence of such physical evidence at the Levitt home.

I'm really curious who the two deceased individuals are. If that information was known we could work on connecting through them to other likely individuals. I can think of one possible but I don't know to this day if he was involved but only that he is in fact deceased. Hurricane brought that to my attention.

kemo
10-19-2009, 03:55 PM
I have put together the following list of POI's. I hope you will suggest corrections or additions as appropriate.
1) Gerald Carnahan: DOB 1958 Abducted, raped murdered and concealed body of Jackie Johns in Ozark Mo in 1985. No other known connection.
2) Francis Robb: DOB ? killed three people and in “early 1990’s” And disposed of their bodies. This was apparently not sex related. He was convicted and died in prison.
3) Ricky Evans: DOB ? Close friend of Robb who might have been involved in the triple murder. Later convicted of a different double murder (non-sexual) and disposing of bodies by feeding to hogs on his farm.
4) Darrel Felton: DOB ? Friend of Evans, grandson of Robb. Was witness against Evans. All three above were “rustic” meth using low-lifes who lived in the rural area east of Springfield.
5) Melvin Cheney: DOB (early 1960’s) convicted of 1/19/91 abduction/rape/murder/ with body disposal of Trudie Davis who was abducted from convenience store where she worked. There are two similar crimes in the general area (about an hour north of Springfield) that are unsolved that he is suspected of.
6) Jesse Rush: DOB 1976 (brother of Melvin) convicted, with Melvin of the Trudie Davis caper. His statement implicated two other men who were never charged (Greg Cheevers and a Marshall Cheevers) and, in a letter to another inmate, made references to having killed “several other women” Jesse and Melvin were living in Camden county Mo
7) Robert Cox” DOB 1960 History of Rape/murder in Fl+ other sex and property crimes. Serving long sentence in Texas. Made statements suggesting he knew something of murder but nothing solid. No known ties to women
8) Stephen Eugene Garrison: DOB ? Raped a student in Springfield in 1993 serving 40 year sentence . He apparently claimed bodies were buried on Francis Robb’s farm. No know connection to women.
9) Mike Kovacs:, DOB 1975 Suzie’d former boyfriend. Associated with of the Graverobbers. Supposedly had rock solid alibi
10) Dustin Recla: Graverobber
11) Michael Clay: Graverobber
12) Joseph Riedel: Graverobber All three of the Graverobber have pretty well convinced LE they were not involved. Statements from LE claim they were ‘cleared” but there are reports that some involved in the investigation feel they should be investigated further.
13) 36-year-old man from Springfield (Grand Jury three)
14) 28-year-old man from Kansas(Grand Jury three)
15) 28-year-old man who was originally from Cedar County, Mo(Grand Jury three) the Grand Jury Three were recent paroles from the Kansas system who arrived in Springfield a month before the abduction. As the Grand Jury is conducted in secret, it is not know what, if any connection they had to the crime but no indictment was issued.
16) Bart Streeter: DOB 1965 Brother of Suzie, Long history of Substance abuse and minor crimes. Generally considered to have been “cleared” during initial investigation.
17) Chris Revak DOB 1973 Committed suicide after arrest for sex related murder in Ava Mo. Is a strong suspect in two other similar murders, “Internet rumors’ place him in Springfield area in 1992 but LE has played down any interest in him

Indianagirl
10-19-2009, 04:36 PM
2) Francis Robb: DOB ? killed three people and in “early 1990’s” And disposed of their bodies. This was apparently not sex related. He was convicted and died in prison.


He was already in prison at the time of the abductions. He had been in custody since January, 91.

kemo
10-19-2009, 04:41 PM
thanks, I'll take him of the list. I couldn't veriy that date.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 05:00 PM
I have put together the following list of POI's. I hope you will suggest corrections or attitions as appropriate.
1) Gerald Carnahan: DOB 1958 Abducted, raped murdered and concealed body of Jackie Johns in Ozark Mo in 1985. No other known connection.
2) Francis Robb: DOB ? killed three people and in “early 1990’s” And disposed of their bodies. This was apparently not sex related. He was convicted and died in prison.
3) Ricky Evans: DOB ? Close friend of Robb who might have been involved in the triple murder. Later convicted of a different double murder (non-sexual) and disposing of bodies by feeding to hogs on his farm.
4) Darrel Felton: DOB ? Friend of Evans, grandson of Robb. Was witness against Evans. All three above were “rustic” meth using low-lifes who lived in the rural area east of Springfield.
5) Melvin Cheney: DOB (early 1960’s) convicted of 1/19/91 abduction/rape/murder/ with body disposal of Trudie Davis who was abducted from convenience store where she worked. There are two similar crimes in the general area (about an hour north of Springfield) that are unsolved that he is suspected of.
6) Jesse Rush: DOB 1976 (brother of Melvin) convicted, with Melvin of the Trudie Davis caper. His statement implicated two other men who were never charged (Greg Cheevers and a Marshall Cheevers) and, in a letter to another inmate, made references to having killed “several other women” Jesse and Melvin were living in Camden county Mo
7) Robert Cox” DOB 1960 History of Rape/murder in Fl+ other sex and property crimes. Serving long sentence in Texas. Made statements suggesting he knew something of murder but nothing solid. No known ties to women
8) Stephen Eugene Garrison: DOB ? Raped a student in Springfield in 1993 serving 40 year sentence . He apparently claimed bodies were buried on Francis Robb’s farm. No know connection to women.
9) Mike Kovacs:, DOB 1975 Suzie’d former boyfriend. Associated with of the Graverobbers. Supposedly had rock solid alibi
10) Dustin Recla: Graverobber
11) Michael Clay: Graverobber
12) Joseph Riedel: Graverobber All three of the Graverobber have pretty well convinced LE they were not involved. Statements from LE claim they were ‘cleared” but there are reports that some involved in the investigation feel they should be investigated further.
13) 36-year-old man from Springfield (Grand Jury three)
14) 28-year-old man from Kansas(Grand Jury three)
15) 28-year-old man who was originally from Cedar County, Mo(Grand Jury three) the Grand Jury Three were recent paroles from the Kansas system who arrived in Springfield a month before the abduction. As the Grand Jury is conducted in secret, it is not know what, if any connection they had to the crime but no indictment was issued.
16) Bart Streeter: DOB 1965 Brother of Suzie, Long history of Substance abuse and minor crimes. Generally considered to have been “cleared” during initial investigation.
17) Chris Revak DOB 1973 Committed suicide after arrest for sex related murder in Ava Mo. Is a strong suspect in two other similar murders, “Internet rumors’ place him in Springfield area in 1992 but LE has played down any interest in him


Kemo...This is awsome!!! Let me be the first to thank you for doing this!!!

dale417
10-19-2009, 05:25 PM
Kemo, that is an excellent list from which to start. Good compilation! Could someone come up with the longitude/latitude of the Robb properties near Rogersville/ Northview, if you have those easily? I am wishing to look a particular structures but I do not recall directions other than connecting to Animal Paradise, which was a gaint place in acreage anyway. Thanks if you are able.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 06:56 PM
Kemo...The girl's name was "Trudy Darby"...ref. Macks Creek Murder committed by Jesse Rush & Melvin Cheney...and two others who were never charged. Here's an excert from a letter Jesse Rush wrote to someone he thought was a "Jail House Lawyer", who eventually turned the letters over to police....Check this out:


It is noteworthy that in two of Defendant's letters he expressly admitted his direct involvement in the murder of Trudy Darby. In one letter he wrote:



I just wish my brother would have done like I said at the barn and burnt the bitc$ up but that pussy ass cheevers and parel desided to take the bitc$ to a Fuc$'en river instead. I was to Fuc$ed up to argue with em all I wanted to do was Fuc$ the bitc$ then shoot her in the head to watch her brains come out. Sounds cool huh? . . . if the bitc$ would have not moved in the trunk at the river my brother wouldn't of had to shoot her in the head again just the have the cops find a shell the stupid mother fuc$er the only smart thing we did was have marshels brother greg burn the barn other wise the mother fuc$ers would have a lot more on us. im glad they don't know every thing else we did or i'd be on death row . . . .

He definatly didn't have any remorse. Also there were two other disappearances of women around the same time that the 3MW went missing...one from Clinton, Mo., and one from Neveda, Mo. These all happened with in about 80-miles of each other. I would suspect that these guys were possiably responsable for the Clinton & Neveda disappearances, I have always put these guys on the top of the suspect list since I learned of them. Their M.O. definatly fits the 3MW case. I believe that Greg Chevers lives north of Springfield and close to Macks Creek. He was one of the ones that never got charged if I'm correct. It could be possable that they were in springfield that night trolling for women...graduation night...etc.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 07:18 PM
Another excert from Jesse Rush's appeal from 1997:

In the present case, six of Defendant's thirteen letters contained scant and vague references to other crimes which cannot be characterized as clear evidence of his having committed them. The thirteen letters in question from Defendant to Ed Thomas consisted of rambling, disconnected thoughts on a variety of topics and subjects. Six of these letters made intertwining, indefinite references to other crimes.

Note: Jesse Rush was 15 at the time these crimes were committed. The other people were a few years older.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 07:23 PM
Here's another "Footnote" that was on the court case file:

FN2. For example, Defendant wrote to Edward Thomas that "I never told you about them other *****s . . . ." With regard to some evidence, he wrote "because if it gets found by accident it can get us involved in killing them other ****ing bitc$s. . . ." Furthermore, Defendant wrote "hey dog I tried to explain a little about them other bitc$s I hope your not mad at me. . . ." Defendant also explained to Edward Thomas in a letter that "the cops don't even know about my brother and me killing any other bitc$s except Macks Creek." Finally, Defendant wrote that "them other bitc$s in my last letter to you were both like that bitc$ in Macks Creek we all tortured the bitc$s then fuc$ed the dog shi$ out of em. . . ." These examples represent the degree of detail which Defendant referred to other crimes. All spelling and grammatical errors in these examples belong to the author of the letters, Defendant.

monkeymann
10-19-2009, 07:30 PM
Here's another Excert from the court case file to help with the timeline as to where these guys were at around the time the 3MW disappeared:

An autopsy was performed by Dr. Jay Dix on Trudy Darby's body on January 22, 1991. Dr. Dix determined that Trudy Darby's death was caused by two gunshot wounds. The first shot entered the right side of her head creating a gutter wound across her right ear, and the bullet then lodged in her skull after traveling about one inch. The trajectory of the bullet indicated that it came from behind and to the right of the victim. The second shot entered the back of Ms. Darby's head and traveled up through her brain before coming to rest below her scalp.
The investigation into who abducted and murdered Trudy Darby revealed little until the Summer of 1994.
Between 1992 and 1993, Defendant was living with family members near Kansas City, Missouri, and during his stay there he revealed to Elizabeth Corpening that he was involved in the abduction and murder of Trudy Darby. Ms. Corpening was disturbed by this revelation but did not take it too seriously.
Thereafter, in 1993 Defendant revealed to Carl Blakely, a former neighbor of Defendant, that he was involved in the abduction and murder of Trudy Darby. However, this time Defendant's revelation was taken seriously and was reported to Trooper Mays. During the same time period, Gretchen Chastain, a former girlfriend of Defendant, also reported to Trooper Mays that Defendant had revealed to her that he was involved in the abduction and murder of Trudy Darby.

kemo
10-20-2009, 12:04 AM
The abductions of Cheryl Ann Kenney on February 28, 1991, in Nevada, Missouri and Angela Hammond on April 4, 1991 in the city of Clinton, Missouri are very similar to the Trudy Darby case. . The three crimes occured in a very short time period so they are probably related. However, no bodies were found and Jesse never mentioned thoses cases by name so no charges were filed.

The Springfield 3 case was over a year later and had definite differences but I think they should have been checked out. I have no idea if they were ever questioned.

Trooogrit
10-20-2009, 07:10 AM
The abductions of Cheryl Ann Kenney on February 28, 1991, in Nevada, Missouri and Angela Hammond on April 4, 1991 in the city of Clinton, Missouri are very similar to the Trudy Darby case. . The three crimes occured in a very short time period so they are probably related. However, no bodies were found and Jesse never mentioned thoses cases by name so no charges were filed.

The Springfield 3 case was over a year later and had definite differences but I think they should have been checked out. I have no idea if they were ever questioned.
I believe they found the body of Cheryl Ann Kenney in a field in 2000 but hadnt identified her.

Indianagirl
10-20-2009, 07:21 AM
The abductions of Cheryl Ann Kenney on February 28, 1991, in Nevada, Missouri and Angela Hammond on April 4, 1991 in the city of Clinton, Missouri are very similar to the Trudy Darby case. . The three crimes occured in a very short time period so they are probably related. However, no bodies were found and Jesse never mentioned thoses cases by name so no charges were filed.

The Springfield 3 case was over a year later and had definite differences but I think they should have been checked out. I have no idea if they were ever questioned.

I believe LE came to the conclusion these 3 cases were not connected (the Kenney, Hammond, and Darby cases). Not sure if the convicted killers of Darby were ever looked at by LE in the 3MW. To my knowledge, they've never been mentioned in this case by LE.

monkeymann
10-20-2009, 08:22 AM
I believe they found the body of Cheryl Ann Kenney in a field in 2000 but hadnt identified her.


If I recall they found "A" body, but I believe I'm pretty sure it was not her.

monkeymann
10-20-2009, 08:24 AM
I believe LE came to the conclusion these 3 cases were not connected (the Kenney, Hammond, and Darby cases). Not sure if the convicted killers of Darby were ever looked at by LE in the 3MW. To my knowledge, they've never been mentioned in this case by LE.


What ever the case may me, the fact remains that Jesse Rush admitted in his letters that there were other women who had been victims of theirs.
I don't think it would be too far fetched to think that these guys were involved....no more far fetched then most of the other suspects.

Indianagirl
10-20-2009, 12:38 PM
What ever the case may me, the fact remains that Jesse Rush admitted in his letters that there were other women who had been victims of theirs.
I don't think it would be too far fetched to think that these guys were involved....no more far fetched then most of the other suspects.

I wasn't implying that it is too far fetched. I was just adding that I believe I read the hammond, Kenney, and Darby cases had been dertermined by LE not to be connected to one another. I was also just stating that to my knowledge, LE has never commented on Rush as being looked at in connection with the 3MW. They very well could have looked at him.

kemo
10-20-2009, 01:24 PM
Its hard to tell what went on with the investigations of the 1991 Mo abductions. Offcially, Hammons and Kenney are still open and many LE at all three jurisadictions have "played down" any connections. Apparently a female body was found in 2000 that was thought to be Kennedy but tests could "not confirm" it (I assume this means it wasn't her).

The short time period and the similarities (and the description given of the Hammond abductor fits Melvin Cheney to a "T") suggest that the three cases are connected.
Unless there is some genuine evidence pointing elsewhere, I suspect that LE was trying to discourage the media from reporting these as a "serial killer" investigation. From what I can tell, the FBI was "involved" in the ivestigations but they were still being handled at the local (I believe county) level. I don't know how things work in Missouri, does a state agency take over in multi-jurisdictional cases?

I don't see any reason to rule these guy out on the Springfield case. It would be hard to make a case against them however. Cheney and Rush are serving long sentenences and both want to get out eventually so they are unlikley to talk. I wonder about the Cheevers Bros. They were never charged but they may know a lot. True, they may know better than to talk to LE but I bet they have aquirred ex-wives and girlfriends and ex-friends and drinking buddies over the years. I bet they weren't real good at keeping secrets.

monkeymann
10-20-2009, 04:27 PM
True, they may know better than to talk to LE but I bet they have aquirred ex-wives and girlfriends and ex-friends and drinking buddies over the years. I bet they weren't real good at keeping secrets.


It's too bad the, "Two that didn't get charged" can't be "Forced" to talk. I'm sorry but I don't have any sympathy for people who comitt these horrible crimes.

I'm sure the two that didn't get charged know much more about crimes that have never been solved!

I wonder how much of a "Libel" issue one would create for themself if a Reward flyer was circulated in the areas they had been known to have lived in over the past 18-yrs. I guess if you physically mentioned their names you'd probably open your self up for it. However the two that are in prison I don't think could do anything to you because they have already been convicted for one of the murders.

monkeymann
10-20-2009, 04:34 PM
The short time period and the similarities (and the description given of the Hammond abductor fits Melvin Cheney to a "T") suggest that the three cases are connected.


I agree that Melvin Cheney DID fit the description that Angela Hammond supposidly gave to her boyfriend over the phone, of the guy that subsequently abducted her. And Clinton, Mo. is about 80-miles from where the Trudy Darby murder took place. Its also very close to where the women in Neveda disappeared. They were all in about 80-miles appart and in the same general area north and west of Springfield. Thats what made me wonder about the crimes being connected. The M.O.'s of the disappearance's, the relative proximity of each disappearance to the others, and the timeframe (Datewise). All happening with in about the same timeframe, and with in about a year or less of the 3MW case from Springfield.

I believe Greg Cheevers lives just north of Springfield close to where the Trudy Darby murder took place...at least last time I checked the internet white pages there was a Greg Cheevers listed as living there.

monkeymann
10-20-2009, 04:39 PM
Ok...just found it again....

Gregory Alan Cheevers....Mack Creek, Mo.

kemo
10-20-2009, 10:26 PM
There is a lot of information out there on the Angela Hammond case. It seems like there was always a certain "cloud of suspicion" that hung over her boyfriend. In 2005, reports started comming out that "new evidence" was found, possibly DNA, that tended to exonerate Rush and Cheney. No arrest have been made.

There is very little information out there on the Cheryl Kenney case. From what I can tell, a skeleton was found that was believed to be her and she was removed from missing person web sites. No arrest were ever made nor or any suggestions of new evidence. A poster who claims to be her son alleges that the identification was made without DNA (apparently because of the expense). At his behest, the Missouri Highway Patrol eventually did a DNA test and the skeleton was found to be a "male".

All of this information was obtained from the Unsolved Mysteries web site and its "forum" (Angela Hammond Girl abducted from phone booth - Sitcoms Online Message Boards). I can't verify anything on Cheryl Kenney. It seem once someone changes from a "missing person" to an "unsolved homicide", the interest on the net drops way off.

I must say that after reading the above forum, I came away with a very negative impression of Law enforcement in rural Missouri. I still feel pretty strongly that the boys from Mack Creek were involved in the other two case. Springfield, I'm not so sure. I would place them with Cox, Garrison and the rest.

Below is a link to a map of the location of the four cases.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100673367270850517029.000476664d273330c13a3&z=8

Trooogrit
10-20-2009, 11:44 PM
There is a lot of information out there on the Angela Hammond case. It seems like there was always a certain "cloud of suspicion" that hung over her boyfriend. In 2005, reports started comming out that "new evidence" was found, possibly DNA, that tended to exonerate Rush and Cheney. No arrest have been made.

There is very little information out there on the Cheryl Kenney case. From what I can tell, a skeleton was found that was believed to be her and she was removed from missing person web sites. No arrest were ever made nor or any suggestions of new evidence. A poster who claims to be her son alleges that the identification was made without DNA (apparently because of the expense). At his behest, the Missouri Highway Patrol eventually did a DNA test and the skeleton was found to be a "male".

All of this information was obtained from the Unsolved Mysteries web site and its "forum" (Angela Hammond Girl abducted from phone booth - Sitcoms Online Message Boards (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=143239)). I can't verify anything on Cheryl Kenney. It seem once someone changes from a "missing person" to an "unsolved homicide", the interest on the net drops way off.

I must say that after reading the above forum, I came away with a very negative impression of Law enforcement in rural Missouri. I still feel pretty strongly that the boys from Mack Creek were involved in the other two case. Springfield, I'm not so sure. I would place them with Cox, Garrison and the rest.

Below is a link to a map of the location of the four cases.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100673367270850517029.000476664d273330c13a3&z=8

Well these guys were not the brightest crayons in the box, I doubt seriously they could pull a crime like this off, considering the amount of intoxication that was involved in the Macks Creek case. I do not believe there is anything connecting them to the area and there is no similarity in the crimes. I still say highly unlikely for these guys. I do believe the crime was a sexual assault though. There has been no motive identified at least based in factual information and the likely suspects have been cleared. Only leaving Cox and Garrison who both claim to have knowledge of the crime and one is murderer and one is a rapist these guys have to be looked at more seriously. With the four agencies agreeing on sexual assault as a motive, I think there is something being held back.

monkeymann
10-21-2009, 09:33 AM
Well these guys were not the brightest crayons in the box, I doubt seriously they could pull a crime like this off, considering the amount of intoxication that was involved in the Macks Creek case. I do not believe there is anything connecting them to the area and there is no similarity in the crimes. I still say highly unlikely for these guys. I do believe the crime was a sexual assault though. There has been no motive identified at least based in factual information and the likely suspects have been cleared. Only leaving Cox and Garrison who both claim to have knowledge of the crime and one is murderer and one is a rapist these guys have to be looked at more seriously. With the four agencies agreeing on sexual assault as a motive, I think there is something being held back.

I don't think they were incapable of committing the 3MW crime. The Macks Creek incident was only one representation of them. Who know's,they might have been into other "Drugs" as well. Personally they looked like Methheads to me. We also don't know what their intoxication state was in the other crimes that Jesse Rush bragged about. Also, in the Macks Creek incident there were aparently at least four of them involved. However, it is highly likely that Jesse Rush and Marvin Cheney committed crimes with just the two of them involved, or may be they committed them independant of one another in certain cases.

Missouri Mule
10-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Well these guys were not the brightest crayons in the box, I doubt seriously they could pull a crime like this off, considering the amount of intoxication that was involved in the Macks Creek case. I do not believe there is anything connecting them to the area and there is no similarity in the crimes. I still say highly unlikely for these guys. I do believe the crime was a sexual assault though. There has been no motive identified at least based in factual information and the likely suspects have been cleared. Only leaving Cox and Garrison who both claim to have knowledge of the crime and one is murderer and one is a rapist these guys have to be looked at more seriously. With the four agencies agreeing on sexual assault as a motive, I think there is something being held back.

I couldn't agree more. Something is being held back. There had to be some information outside the home that took place that led these agencies to conclude this single motive. The logical inference is that someone rolled on the case.

monkeymann
10-21-2009, 11:47 AM
. Only leaving Cox and Garrison who both claim to have knowledge of the crime.

I know that Cox claimed to have knowledge of this crime, and Garrison is the "Steve" that he mentions in his letters correct?

I have never heard or seen where Garrison stated that he had any knowledge of the crime....where did you get this from?

Missouri Mule
10-21-2009, 12:22 PM
I know that Cox claimed to have knowledge of this crime, and Garrison is the "Steve" that he mentions in his letters correct?

I have never heard or seen where Garrison stated that he had any knowledge of the crime....where did you get this from?

It was an inference from various sources. I may have also heard this from one of the reporters of this story. Been a long time. I don't know offhand who else it would be. The other two characters; the subjects of the GJ, had no reason to want to cut a deal. They just absconded out of town so far as I know. The only one who had any incentive to spill the beans was Garrison. If someone knows differently I haven't heard about it.

Until someone comes up with a better idea I am casting my lot with the theory that Cox and "X" concocted this plan for their own reasons. But the only real way we are going to know is for someone inside the investigation to actually point us in the right direction. What I believed, and still believe, is the information I got a long time ago that the investigation was dead in the water. Various investigators had their own theories which essentially dovetailed with Owen's take in the KY-3 interview.

In 1992, I had one of the former officers who participated in the initial search work in my office. I must have picked his brains a dozen times and he didn't know anything. Another former LE officer in my office, although not directly involved, said that this case would never be solved because the crime scene was so contaminated with the various comings and goings of the people in the house that day. His message to me was to forget about it because it would never be solved. Guess he had it right all along. But that doesn't prevent us from forming our own theories. Evidently that what eventually happens with these cold cases. This one appears to be no different. Who had the motive, the opportunity and the means? The one I believe that to be is Cox who actually carried out the crime. That's my conclusion. And if sexual assault was the motive and if there was no evidence at the house, that motive had to be provided by someone who had the knowledge. Who else would it be? Who would have given up that information? I can't think of anyone that hasn't already been named. It had to be someone who knew something that the police held back in order to be credible. I believe Garrison to be that person.

kemo
10-21-2009, 12:33 PM
My understanding is that Garrison claimed that he "knew" the bodies were buried on the Robb farm. LE searched and found nothing. Apparently the Robb farm was rather notorious for some unrelated murders. It sounds like Garrison was making your basic WAG (ie Wild Ass Guess) in hopes of catching a break on his own beef.

I don't think we need to read too much in to the "assumption" of sexual assault as a motive. When young women are abducted and there is no other likley motive, its a pretty good guess.

While I think it is unlikely that Rush and Cheney had anything to do with the Springfield case, the details of the Mack Creek case are interesting reference. In a town of less than 1000 people, a "group" of locals guys raped and killed a local woman and got away with it until one of the MANY people one of them bragged to finally went to Law Enforcement. From what I can tell, Melvin Cheney had a long criminal record (although nothing like rape or murder) but in a town so small, he must have attracted some "consideration". In the early 1990's, the town of Mack Creek was basically a "speed trap" operation where the town's primary source of revenue was speeding tickets issued to people "passing through" and it's primary expense was its police department. The State of Mo shut it down in 1995 and the town went bankrupt and the "police force" resigned "en masse". It sounds like the cops really did nothing but write tickets and split up the "take". When law enforcement is corrupt, criminal get to operate with impunity.

monkeymann
10-21-2009, 12:36 PM
It was an inference from various sources. I may have also heard this from one of the reporters of this story. Been a long time. I don't know offhand who else it would be. The other two characters; the subjects of the GJ, had no reason to want to cut a deal. They just absconded out of town so far as I know. The only one who had any incentive to spill the beans was Garrison. If someone knows differently I haven't heard about it.

Until someone comes up with a better idea I am casting my lot with the theory that Cox and "X" concocted this plan for their own reasons. But the only real way we are going to know is for someone inside the investigation to actually point us in the right direction. What I believed, and still believe, is the information I got a long time ago that the investigation was dead in the water. Various investigators had their own theories which essentially dovetailed with Owen's take in the KY-3 interview.

In 1992, I had one of the former officers who participated in the initial search work in my office. I must have picked his brains a dozen times and he didn't know anything. Another former LE officer in my office, although not directly involved, said that this case would never be solved because the crime scene was so contaminated with the various comings and goings of the people in the house that day. His message to me was to forget about it because it would never be solved. Guess he had it right all along. But that doesn't prevent us from forming our own theories. Evidently that what eventually happens with these cold cases. This one appears to be no different. Who had the motive, the opportunity and the means? The one I believe that to be is Cox who actually carried out the crime. That's my conclusion. And if sexual assault was the motive and if there was no evidence at the house, that motive had to be provided by someone who had the knowledge. Who else would it be? Who would have given up that information? I can't think of anyone that hasn't already been named. It had to be someone who knew something that the police held back in order to be credible. I believe Garrison to be that person.

So you think the two were in Cahoots with one another. I wonder what Garrison did for a living. How the two of them could have come to know one another. Having that information would definatly help establish the connection between the two, as well as what might have put them in the proximity of the women. Was it ever proven that Cox was doing survey locating in the 3MW's neighborhood? I've heard that he was in the area, but that could be anywhere. Was it ever proven that he was in the actual neighborhood....actually on Delmar or an ajacent street?

Missouri Mule
10-21-2009, 01:02 PM
So you think the two were in Cahoots with one another. I wonder what Garrison did for a living. How the two of them could have come to know one another. Having that information would definatly help establish the connection between the two, as well as what might have put them in the proximity of the women. Was it ever proven that Cox was doing survey locating in the 3MW's neighborhood? I've heard that he was in the area, but that could be anywhere. Was it ever proven that he was in the actual neighborhood....actually on Delmar or an ajacent street?

No, I don't believe that Cox and Garrison were in cahoots with one another. What I believe is that Garrison came along after the abductions. What I believe is that Cox and "X" concocted this scheme for their own nefarious reasons. Cox evidently liked to assault young women and "X" was grinding his own ax. That's what I believe is the likely scenario. Of course it is a WAG like everyone else has. And from what I gather from reading other views is that the "sexual assault" angle is another WAG by police officers who don't know much more than we do. The one thing they possess which we will never have is access to the police investigation files. Had we access to those files I sincerely believe we would know exactly what took place in short order. This is what bugs me about police procedure. They are so hamstrung with their own bureaucracies and workloads that they can't think outside the box. Even from the very outset, the SPD was at war with itself. About the only thing we know from that time forward is that a number of these officers have retired and seemingly no one in the press/media has bother to look them up and pick their brains and come up with a reasonable scenario. I blame the press/media for falling down on the job as well. This crime was unique, perhaps in annals of U.S. crime, and it doesn't receive the attention it deserves by investigative reporters who will dig out this information. We are just left to our own imaginations.

I doubt this had anything to do with the other murders in the area. But, like everything else, that is a WAG based on what makes sense to me.

Trooogrit
10-21-2009, 05:01 PM
I couldn't agree more. Something is being held back. There had to be some information outside the home that took place that led these agencies to conclude this single motive. The logical inference is that someone rolled on the case.
I was thinking more about the evidence and something was held from the public.

Trooogrit
10-21-2009, 05:05 PM
So you think the two were in Cahoots with one another. I wonder what Garrison did for a living. How the two of them could have come to know one another. Having that information would definatly help establish the connection between the two, as well as what might have put them in the proximity of the women. Was it ever proven that Cox was doing survey locating in the 3MW's neighborhood? I've heard that he was in the area, but that could be anywhere. Was it ever proven that he was in the actual neighborhood....actually on Delmar or an ajacent street?
No I believe that one of them is lying and doesnt know anything, or what they do know is information gained from associates, I do not believe they knew each other at all. I dont think there was time, and I sense different personalities that would not make for friendship. They just SAY they know what happened, they could both lying.

Missouri Mule
10-21-2009, 07:11 PM
I was thinking more about the evidence and something was held from the public.

Ordinarily I would agree with that except that with all of the people traipsing through the house all day I should think would have noticed something didn't look right but so far as we know, no one indicated anything other than the women were not there. While the evidence may in fact have been there it was evidently missed by everyone until the police did their forensic search. That was my thinking why they concluded that sexual assault was the motive only after someone rolled. But again, since we don't have an inside into the investigation we can only surmise.

Trooogrit
10-21-2009, 07:58 PM
Ordinarily I would agree with that except that with all of the people traipsing through the house all day I should think would have noticed something didn't look right but so far as we know, no one indicated anything other than the women were not there. While the evidence may in fact have been there it was evidently missed by everyone until the police did their forensic search. That was my thinking why they concluded that sexual assault was the motive only after someone rolled. But again, since we don't have an inside into the investigation we can only surmise. Well dpends what was there, might not be something people would even notice. They didnt believe a crime had been committed.

wfgodot
10-29-2009, 01:47 PM
A bump for the most interesting missing persons thread on WebSleuths. Great reading, fascinating case.

dale417
10-29-2009, 07:56 PM
They didnt believe a crime had been committed.

Troogrit, that has been a major problem from the very start of this case! It is still the MAJOR stumbling block of the entire thing, if it's not a crime then there isn't much reason to search for anything is there? Just let us all flounder in the wind...

Trooogrit
10-29-2009, 08:21 PM
They didnt believe a crime had been committed.

Troogrit, that has been a major problem from the very start of this case! It is still the MAJOR stumbling block of the entire thing, if it's not a crime then there isn't much reason to search for anything is there? Just let us all flounder in the wind...
I am talking about the very first night. They walked the house, visually inspecting and making a report. The next day it was declared a crime scene. They may have then found other evidence not known to the public. This is why they came to the conclusion it was sexual assault as a motive. Its 24 hours before they can declare it a crime I believe.

Indianagirl
10-29-2009, 08:29 PM
I am talking about the very first night. They walked the house, visually inspecting and making a report. The next day it was declared a crime scene. They may have then found other evidence not known to the public. This is why they came to the conclusion it was sexual assault as a motive. Its 24 hours before they can declare it a crime I believe.

When did the other LE agencies join the investigation?

Trooogrit
10-29-2009, 08:34 PM
When did the other LE agencies join the investigation?I believe the FBI was involved in the first week, the Sherriff and the MHP, actually there daily briefings made public if I remember correctly.

Missouri Mule
10-31-2009, 05:49 PM
I believe the FBI was involved in the first week, the Sherriff and the MHP, actually there daily briefings made public if I remember correctly.

I hate to sound disagreeable but the fact is that when I had my row with the lead officer of the SPD and went to the MHP in response a senior member of that organization told me to my face that they were told their services were not needed. So far as I know the only time they were involved was during the initial search for the women. As to actual investigation of the case itself I have no personal knowledge one way or or another whether they were. I suppose the officer was misinformed or misinformed me or I could have misunderstood him. But that is my clear recollection to this day.

Of course this may all be a matter of semantics. Perhaps all these agencies were involved early on and they dropped out of the investigation as the SPD took total control of the case and all future investigation going forward.

Trooogrit
10-31-2009, 07:52 PM
I hate to sound disagreeable but the fact is that when I had my row with the lead officer of the SPD and went to the MHP in response a senior member of that organization told me to my face that they were told their services were not needed. So far as I know the only time they were involved was during the initial search for the women. As to actual investigation of the case itself I have no personal knowledge one way or or another whether they were. I suppose the officer was misinformed or misinformed me or I could have misunderstood him. But that is my clear recollection to this day.

Of course this may all be a matter of semantics. Perhaps all these agencies were involved early on and they dropped out of the investigation as the SPD took total control of the case and all future investigation going forward.

Well I guess it depends on what you consider early, we know that that other agencies were involved after this as well, we already know about the review.

"The highway patrol has been involved in this investigation since its inception. Not only the highway patrol, but the Greene County Sheriffs department, The FBI, the Greene County prosecutor's office, as well as the United States Districts Attorneys Office have been involved with us. We have a daily briefing at 4 p.m. each day. These individuals were invited since day one, and have continued to participate, and provided assistance in searching areas or in the case of the attorneys--legal assistance."
Tony Glenn NL July 13, 1992

Hurricane
10-31-2009, 08:51 PM
Well I guess it depends on what you consider early, we know that that other agencies were involved after this as well, we already know about the review.

"The highway patrol has been involved in this investigation since its inception. Not only the highway patrol, but the Greene County Sheriffs department, The FBI, the Greene County prosecutor's office, as well as the United States Districts Attorneys Office have been involved with us. We have a daily briefing at 4 p.m. each day. These individuals were invited since day one, and have continued to participate, and provided assistance in searching areas or in the case of the attorneys--legal assistance."
Tony Glenn NL July 13, 1992

The MHP joined in the investigation on day 1, June 8th; the FBI on June 9th, and their violent crime expert arrived July 18th.

Missouri Mule
11-01-2009, 12:18 AM
Well I guess it depends on what you consider early, we know that that other agencies were involved after this as well, we already know about the review.

"The highway patrol has been involved in this investigation since its inception. Not only the highway patrol, but the Greene County Sheriffs department, The FBI, the Greene County prosecutor's office, as well as the United States Districts Attorneys Office have been involved with us. We have a daily briefing at 4 p.m. each day. These individuals were invited since day one, and have continued to participate, and provided assistance in searching areas or in the case of the attorneys--legal assistance."
Tony Glenn NL July 13, 1992

I had my conversation with the MHP officer at the headquarters and filed a report on or about November, 1992 shortly after I had my "situation" with the detective at the SPD when I reported the van I saw. Now whether or not the MHP bowed out at their own discretion or whether they were asked to eliminate their participation I cannot say. What I can say is what I was told and that was plainly that their services were not needed. As I said, it could have been misinterpreted, misstated, or my memory could be faulty although I don't believe that to be the case.

Why did I go to the MHP office that evening on Kearney Street? It was because the extremely hostile reception that I had received at the SPD by this officer. All I was doing was reporting what I had seen and knowing vehicles as I did, I knew it was an identical van. In the early morning it appeared to be newly painted. That would have been about 7:40 AM that morning. The REASON I went to the MHP was because I knew I could not fight city hall so to speak. I also wanted for word to get back to the SPD that I had reported it. However, when asked if I wanted the MHP to take it up with the SPD, I declined but I strongly suspected that it was reported which was my intended purpose. And also, as I did, the officer at the MHP, stated to me that he could not understand why this incident had even happened. Subsequently I made a rather complete written e-mail report years later to the SPD to which I was advised it would be looked at. I have not to this date received any kind of reply. Had I not already had made arrangements to attend an auto race in Nashville, TN that weekend I would have taken up this matter with Internal Affairs. I actually called the morning of my departure to make a verbal report but they had not yet arrived at the office. So it did not proceed further due to time constraints.

I have digressed to explain how and why I went to the MHP headquarters. I felt I had no alternative considering my prior experience in making my report based on my own eyewitness experience. To this date I have no idea why it was greeted in this fashion. And I invite the SPD to rebut this incident.

Did or did not the MHP work this case actively in consort with the SPD? Perhaps a representative of that state department would consent to make that clear. Based on my single discussion with this officer, I would have to say they were not working on the case at the behest of the SPD.

Trooogrit
11-01-2009, 09:42 AM
I had my conversation with the MHP officer at the headquarters and filed a report on or about November, 1992 shortly after I had my "situation" with the detective at the SPD when I reported the van I saw. Now whether or not the MHP bowed out at their own discretion or whether they were asked to eliminate their participation I cannot say. What I can say is what I was told and that was plainly that their services were not needed. As I said, it could have been misinterpreted, misstated, or my memory could be faulty although I don't believe that to be the case.

Why did I go to the MHP office that evening on Kearney Street? It was because the extremely hostile reception that I had received at the SPD by this officer. All I was doing was reporting what I had seen and knowing vehicles as I did, I knew it was an identical van. In the early morning it appeared to be newly painted. That would have been about 7:40 AM that morning. The REASON I went to the MHP was because I knew I could not fight city hall so to speak. I also wanted for word to get back to the SPD that I had reported it. However, when asked if I wanted the MHP to take it up with the SPD, I declined but I strongly suspected that it was reported which was my intended purpose. And also, as I did, the officer at the MHP, stated to me that he could not understand why this incident had even happened. Subsequently I made a rather complete written e-mail report years later to the SPD to which I was advised it would be looked at. I have not to this date received any kind of reply. Had I not already had made arrangements to attend an auto race in Nashville, TN that weekend I would have taken up this matter with Internal Affairs. I actually called the morning of my departure to make a verbal report but they had not yet arrived at the office. So it did not proceed further due to time constraints.

I have digressed to explain how and why I went to the MHP headquarters. I felt I had no alternative considering my prior experience in making my report based on my own eyewitness experience. To this date I have no idea why it was greeted in this fashion. And I invite the SPD to rebut this incident.

Did or did not the MHP work this case actively in consort with the SPD? Perhaps a representative of that state department would consent to make that clear. Based on my single discussion with this officer, I would have to say they were not working on the case at the behest of the SPD.

Well that is fine, but like most things in this case, I cannot take someones word as fact. If someone from the MHP were to come forward and it explain the timeline, then I would believe that. Short of that all we have is what is in print, and from what I have seen, they were involved to some degree all along. There was a general winding down of the intensity to this thing, maybe that is when you spoke to them. Eventually as a case goes cold all the resources arent needed.

concernedmamaof2
11-02-2009, 10:14 AM
Just reading up on the information you all have on this case. It's been an interesting one to me. I grew up in Macks Creek (where the Darby murder took place. That still chills me to the bone, having known everyone involved and supposedly involved. It set our small town in a tail spin).

I've always wondered what happened to these poor women from Springfield and if anyone will ever know. Thanks for all of the posts with thought out and helpful information. I've always wondered in the back of my head if the monsters that hurt Trudy were responsible somehow for this, but I don't know if that makes sense.

gaia227
11-02-2009, 03:40 PM
Just reading up on the information you all have on this case. It's been an interesting one to me. I grew up in Macks Creek (where the Darby murder took place. That still chills me to the bone, having known everyone involved and supposedly involved. It set our small town in a tail spin).

I've always wondered what happened to these poor women from Springfield and if anyone will ever know. Thanks for all of the posts with thought out and helpful information. I've always wondered in the back of my head if the monsters that hurt Trudy were responsible somehow for this, but I don't know if that makes sense.


Hi and welcome to WS! I am a MO native as well. I grew up in Springfield and was 12 when the 3 women vanished. After reading the letters Jesse Rush wrote it makes me physically sick to think about these disgusting, vile men laying a hand on any women. Just everything about these suspects is disgusting from their usage of words to their appearence. I hope these two did not get their hands on our missing women. I don't think they did. I think they are too stupid, too disorganized and too stoned and/or drunk to pull off the abduction of 3 women from a home and leave nary a clue behind. They were sloppy opportunistic vultures and I think they would have either left the bodies behind, they would have dumped them in a place where they would be found and/or they would have left evidence behind at the scene and I think the house would have been in more of a state of disorder if these two bozo's had been there.

concernedmamaof2
11-02-2009, 04:12 PM
Thank you for the welcome.

I also hope that they didn't touch your three missing and always hold out some hope that they will still be found.

I went to school with Jess (when he was there on and off) and I cannot tell you how sickened I was when all of this came out. Trudy was our secretary for years and her daughter was a friend. To know that this could happen to her and then to realize that someone you know could be responsible for something so vile and sickening just makes you lose faith in humanity. We did not by any stretch hang out in the same crowds, but it is a very small place, so everyone knows everyone.

Unfortunately there are way too many sick people in this world, and these are two of them.

Indianagirl
11-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Hi and welcome to WS! I am a MO native as well. I grew up in Springfield and was 12 when the 3 women vanished. After reading the letters Jesse Rush wrote it makes me physically sick to think about these disgusting, vile men laying a hand on any women. Just everything about these suspects is disgusting from their usage of words to their appearence. I hope these two did not get their hands on our missing women. I don't think they did. I think they are too stupid, too disorganized and too stoned and/or drunk to pull off the abduction of 3 women from a home and leave nary a clue behind. They were sloppy opportunistic vultures and I think they would have either left the bodies behind, they would have dumped them in a place where they would be found and/or they would have left evidence behind at the scene and I think the house would have been in more of a state of disorder if these two bozo's had been there.

I completely agree with your reasoning.

Indianagirl
11-02-2009, 04:25 PM
Thank you for the welcome.

I also hope that they didn't touch your three missing and always hold out some hope that they will still be found.

I went to school with Jess (when he was there on and off) and I cannot tell you how sickened I was when all of this came out. Trudy was our secretary for years and her daughter was a friend. To know that this could happen to her and then to realize that someone you know could be responsible for something so vile and sickening just makes you lose faith in humanity. We did not by any stretch hang out in the same crowds, but it is a very small place, so everyone knows everyone.

Unfortunately there are way too many sick people in this world, and these are two of them.

This is off topic, but you said Trudy was your secretary for years, was this at school? Just curious if Jess would have known who she was or she knew who he was?

concernedmamaof2
11-02-2009, 04:30 PM
Yes, it was at our school. And yes, he would have known her and vice-versa. Everyone knew her. Our school was very small, 350 kids K-12. And, since he was a student on and off, she would have known him. I'm having trouble remembering, but I'm thinking she quit being the secretary the year before that, or was down to part time or something, hence the job at the gas station. I tend to block out that time period, because it's just upsetting. I need to dig up my yearbooks and see what the timeframe was when she was at the school. I know he was there on and off.

ETA: Sorry for bringing the thread off topic.

I do hope that eventually the three missing will be found and this case will be closed. It's very tragic to not know what happened.

Indianagirl
11-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Yes, it was at our school. And yes, he would have known her and vice-versa. Everyone knew her. Our school was very small, 350 kids K-12. And, since he was a student on and off, she would have known him. I'm having trouble remembering, but I'm thinking she quit being the secretary the year before that, or was down to part time or something, hence the job at the gas station. I tend to block out that time period, because it's just upsetting. I need to dig up my yearbooks and see what the timeframe was when she was at the school. I know he was there on and off.

ETA: Sorry for bringing the thread off topic.

I do hope that eventually the three missing will be found and this case will be closed. It's very tragic to not know what happened.

No need to apologize, happens all the time! That's awful that they knew one another. I don't get how evil people can be......truly sickening. I'm glad her killers were brought to justice! Hopefully, one day we can say the same for the 3MW.

kemo
11-02-2009, 11:43 PM
I agree that the Mack Creek and possibly related crimes were significantly different from the Springfield case but I don't think the perps can be dismissed entirly at disorganized, drugged up "hillbillies". Yes, they did bring a 15 year old kid with a big mouth along, but they did a "better" job on the next two capers and almost got away it. I wouldn't underestimate them.

concernedmamaof2
11-03-2009, 02:14 PM
I can't say by any stretch that all the people responsible are behind bars. However, at least two are.

I do agree with Kemo that they cannot be ruled out of the 3MW case. However, if they were involved, they most definitely didn't do it alone.

monkeymann
11-04-2009, 03:00 PM
I can't say by any stretch that all the people responsible are behind bars. However, at least two are.

I do agree with Kemo that they cannot be ruled out of the 3MW case. However, if they were involved, they most definitely didn't do it alone.


What sent up red flags with me is the fact that the Trudy Darby murder, and the disappearance of Angela Hammond from Clinton, Mo. and the lady who disappeared from the Neveda convenient store, as well as the 3MW all happened at about the same relative time. Also Jess Rush confessed in the letters he wrote that, "He was glad Law Enforcement hadn't found out about the (Other Things) they had done, or they'd would be sitting on death row"......something to that effect. I firmly believe that they were involved in other murders. Weather those other murders included the 3MW we may never know.
I would be curious to know where the "Barn" that Jess Rush spoke of in his letters was located. He stated that the Trudy Darby rape and murder was carried out in the barn, and that they later burned it to the ground to try to conceal evidence that was supposidly in the barn. I wonder if Law Enforcement ever really went over the site with a forensic team after it burned down, or after Jess Rush's letters came to light?
I'd still like to know the physical location of the former barn. I'll bet that evidence still exists. It could very well have been the site other crimes were carried out, before they decided to burn it to the ground.

mizzougrl
11-04-2009, 03:35 PM
if anyone with any information on the Trudy Darby case would post for me it would be greatly appreciated. This is a subject i am doing my paper on for my Forensics class and I need all the leads or websites pretaining to this case.

mizzougrl
11-04-2009, 03:44 PM
the barn where Trudy Darby was taken of course was burned but the location is West Branch Rd in Macks Creek MO. I have often wondered myself if there is possibly any evidence remaining there afetr all these years?

monkeymann
11-04-2009, 04:09 PM
the barn where Trudy Darby was taken of course was burned but the location is West Branch Rd in Macks Creek MO. I have often wondered myself if there is possibly any evidence remaining there afetr all these years?

The copy of the Appeals Trial for Jess Rush is can be found by doing a Google Search, and I believe you can find copies of the letters he wrote that way as well. I'd give you the actual web site but I don't know it off the top of my head. If you have a hard time finding it let me know and I'll see if I can track it down.

I think there is also some of it on here. Mo. Case Net can be searched for a little information on Jess Rush's trial.

Incidently, do you know the "Exact Location" where the barn was...on West Branch Rd in Macks Creek, Mo.

mizzougrl
11-04-2009, 04:38 PM
the location yes, the exact location where her body was no, but I have past by the location several times as well as the Little Nig. where she was placed.
and the location where the barn once was. Very eerie, I guess because the brothers are still around the area

mizzougrl
11-04-2009, 04:40 PM
BTW thanks for the info on the Jess rush trial which I have alot of info on now I need the Chaney case

monkeymann
11-04-2009, 05:27 PM
the location yes, the exact location where her body was no, but I have past by the location several times as well as the Little Nig. where she was placed.
and the location where the barn once was. Very eerie, I guess because the brothers are still around the area


I was refering to the "Exact" location of where the barn used to be. If you can tell me where that is it would be great...or post a google earth link to it.
And yea...I guess one of the Chever brothers still lives in Mack Creek. I believe it was Greg Chever. Its my understanding that there were at least two other people who were supposidly involved in the Trudy Darby incident, but for some reason never got charged. I thought one of them was a Chever. I'm sure who ever it was that didn't get charged, knows about a heck of a lot more stuff that that group did, then Law Enforcement ever found out about.

mtrooper
11-18-2009, 03:06 PM
Ok I am new to this thread and I did some reading on these 3 as well as a few others that went missing in the area at the same time. I may be way off here or it may have already been mentioned, but in one of the letters written by Jess he mentions Cheevers and Parel. What are the chances that Cheevers is really Shafers? The reason I ask is Rob Schafer is the boyfriend of Angela Hammond (who went missing 4/4/1991). So if in January Rob Shafer, Jess Rush, and Marvin Chaney kidnap and kill Trudy, posibbly they killed Angela as well. I know there has always been thoughts that they were linked, but Cheevers could be Schafers...Hammond was also pregnant with Shafers child. Even if he wasnt directly involved with her kidnapping, maybe his friends were. I would like to know if they knew each other.


"I just wish my brother would have done like I said at the barn and burnt the ***** up but that ***** ass cheevers and parel desided to take the ***** to a ****in river instead. I was to ****ed up to argue with em all I wanted to do was **** the ***** then shoot her in the head to watch her brains come out. Sounds cool huh? . . . if the ***** would have not moved in the trunk at the river my brother wouldn't of had to shoot her in the head again just the have the cops find a shell the stupid mother ****er the only smart thing we did was have marshels brother greg burn the barn other wise the mother ****ers would have a lot more on us. im glad they don't know every thing else we did or i'd be on death row . . . "

Hurricane
11-20-2009, 03:45 PM
I ran across this quote and I don't know if I would call it prophetic or not but it could very well apply to the 3MW case. For those of us who have worked hard on this case we may be to the point where "you find out that you can’t find out."

“Some things you can’t find out; but you will never know you can’t by guessing and supposing: no, you have to be patient and go on experimenting until you find out that you can’t find out. And it is delightful to have it that way, it makes the world so interesting. If there wasn’t anything to find out, it would be dull. Even trying to find out and not finding out is just as interesting as trying to find out and finding out, and I don’t know but more so.” -- Mark Twain, The Diaries of Adam and Eve.

Kathee
12-05-2009, 08:12 PM
How dio I upload an image here? I have a new mugshot of Robert Craig Cox.

If someone will email me or PM I will send it to them and we can get it up.

Indianagirl
12-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Kathee, if you PM it to me, I can put it up for you.

Indianagirl
12-06-2009, 09:02 AM
Robert Craig Cox

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r260/kl4025930/RobertCraigCox738775.jpg

Kathee
12-06-2009, 12:15 PM
Thanks for your help in getting Cox's most recent mug shot up, Indy. It took me a couple of days to get them to send me the newest one.

I have put in a formal request with TXDOC to go interview Cox.
__________________

Indy, we should put it in the images section too.

gaia227
12-08-2009, 01:01 PM
I was researching something else when I came across this UID found in NY. She was found 02/2003 in Midtown Manhattan underneath a large concrete block. It caught my eye because Stacy, Suzi and Sherill had been submitted as possible matches and ruled out. It made me wonder why anyone would think this could have been one of them. Is there some link one of the women had to NY?

https://identifyus.org/cases/5703?page=case_information

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/337ufny.html (same UID)

Hippy Chick
01-08-2010, 01:46 PM
I haven't read this thread for a while but I had to share this my daughter had my first grandson @ Cox South on 12-31-2009, I was out in my car smoking and waiting for the baby and I got the strangest feeling come over me to my bones and made me shiver. It was cold that day but this was a different kind of shiver. I couldn't quite figure out why because I was very happy and excited regarding the impending birth. I know this sounds crazy but I could almost see the 3 women like kinda float by the car window and it dawned on me why the shiver. I had not even thought of them and it was the last thing I had on my mind. I went back in the hospital and I realized my vechicle was facing the parking garage. Needless to say I had my BIL move it later that day and have not even mentioned it until now but it was a strange and errie feeling. I really do think they are there close by. I am not psycic in the least and never have these feelings but I sure did that day.....

Missouri Mule
01-08-2010, 06:29 PM
I haven't read this thread for a while but I had to share this my daughter had my first grandson @ Cox South on 12-31-2009, I was out in my car smoking and waiting for the baby and I got the strangest feeling come over me to my bones and made me shiver. It was cold that day but this was a different kind of shiver. I couldn't quite figure out why because I was very happy and excited regarding the impending birth. I know this sounds crazy but I could almost see the 3 women like kinda float by the car window and it dawned on me why the shiver. I had not even thought of them and it was the last thing I had on my mind. I went back in the hospital and I realized my vechicle was facing the parking garage. Needless to say I had my BIL move it later that day and have not even mentioned it until now but it was a strange and errie feeling. I really do think they are there close by. I am not psycic in the least and never have these feelings but I sure did that day.....

You should take in "Psychic Investigators" sometime. You may have something in common with those folks. No one can explain these things and I certainly wouldn't rule them out of hand. The facts that the cops stubbornly refuse to core that garage is one of total frustration on the part of those who believe something is buried there. And the technology that would establish the presence of something beneath the concrete slab is absolutely proven beyond any doubt.

Hippy Chick
01-09-2010, 01:13 AM
Having only one child a daughter this case has always haunted me people just don't disappear into thin air someone knows and the families have suffered this for all these years. Its truley disgusting that these cowards got away with murder X3

theforgotten
01-11-2010, 01:15 PM
There must be reruns of 48 Hours showing everyday. I wonder why they never replay The Springfield Three's. This gets on my nervous so bad. Just venting.:banghead:

Missouri Mule
01-11-2010, 01:28 PM
There must be reruns of 48 Hours showing everyday. I wonder why they never replay The Springfield Three's. This gets on my nervous so bad. Just venting.:banghead:

To be honest, it is outdated to be of much value. What would be better would be if this were to be on a program such as the "Bureau" but that will only come after the case is solved as the FBI doesn't publish unsolved cases.

There was a lot of reenactment and extraneous "junk" added to the program which really doesn't provide good information. The cops won't talk and the primary suspect won't talk nor someone else who is cooling his heels in prison won't talk either.

I've watched this program about 30 times and when one distills it down to the facts there isn't all that much. An updated "24 hour" piece would be helpful but it is my understanding that CBS has resisted several efforts to look at it again. As I understood it from a local reporter, the cops simply refuse to discuss the case. So that's where we stand. Devoid of facts and subject to endless speculation.

wfgodot
01-11-2010, 01:38 PM
["So that's where we stand. Devoid of facts and subject to endless speculation." --MM]

At least the endless speculation continues to fascinate. Even on hiatus, the Missing Springfield 3 thread(s) are the best on WebSleuths.

theforgotten
01-11-2010, 02:12 PM
An updated "24 hour" piece would be helpful but it is my understanding that CBS has resisted several efforts to look at it again. As I understood it from a local reporter, the cops simply refuse to discuss the case. So that's where we stand. Devoid of facts and subject to endless speculation.

It's really sad that the cops refuse to talk about the case, because it could use media attention to help get new leads. I really feel bad for Stacey's family. They've never given up hope, but it seems that everyone else has.

MaryLiz
01-12-2010, 07:10 AM
There must be reruns of 48 Hours showing everyday. I wonder why they never replay The Springfield Three's. This gets on my nervous so bad. Just venting.:banghead:

I watch for it too and you're right, they never rerun it. I have written to 48 Hours twice now asking them to do an update on the original show, but never got a response. At least it would get some outside reporters going to Springfield and poking around, trying to get people to talk about it again.

Indianagirl
01-12-2010, 08:25 PM
There is a new program on ID called "Disappeared" that features unsolved missing persons cases. Each episode focuses only on one case in-depth. It premiered last night. I checked out the website for the show and couldn't find contact information. I had intended to email them about this case. Maybe someone here could check and have better luck?

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/disappeared/

MaryLiz
01-12-2010, 08:50 PM
There is a new program on ID called "Disappeared" that features unsolved missing persons cases. Each episode focuses only on one case in-depth. It premiered last night. I checked out the website for the show and couldn't find contact information. I had intended to email them about this case. Maybe someone here could check and have better luck?

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/disappeared/

I saw the Paige Birgfeld episode last night and thought the exact same thing..that they should do an episode on the 3MW. I went to the website and way at the bottom it says Customer Service and next to that is a link to click on that says "Viewer Relations." I clicked on that and it took me to a list of questions. Way at the bottom is question #33..How to contact them for programming comments or questions. There's a link given below the question that says "click here" to e-mail them. There is also a snail mail address.

Thanks for providing the link, Indianagirl. I'm going to e-mail them too. The more people that e-mail them, the more chance we'll have of getting them to do an episode on the 3MW.

gaia227
01-13-2010, 01:04 PM
I am so envious of everyone who has Investigative Discovery! I have digital cable through Time Warner Cable and I have tons of channels but not that one. When I am scrolling through the menu I stop and look longingly at the shows ID is showing. I don't know if I can convince the fiance that spending an extra amt of money every month so I can watch ID would be money well spent. He already complains about Forensic Files and tells me how morbid I am.

Regardless, I will email them as well about 3MW. If they did profile the women then it would give me a stronger argument for getting the channel as he knows this case is near and dear :)

MaryLiz
01-13-2010, 02:04 PM
I am so envious of everyone who has Investigative Discovery! I have digital cable through Time Warner Cable and I have tons of channels but not that one. When I am scrolling through the menu I stop and look longingly at the shows ID is showing. I don't know if I can convince the fiance that spending an extra amt of money every month so I can watch ID would be money well spent. He already complains about Forensic Files and tells me how morbid I am.

Regardless, I will email them as well about 3MW. If they did profile the women then it would give me a stronger argument for getting the channel as he knows this case is near and dear :)

My bold..

LOL! I can relate..all my family and friends think I'm morbid too for being interested in this stuff.

I have Time Warner Digital and get ID. It seems strange that you live in NYC and don't have ID on your lineup, and I live in a podunk town in Ohio and it's on my cable! :waitasec: I actually couldn't believe we got it on our cable here when it was first added to the lineup. It is a good channel. Hopefully, it won't cost too much for you to add it to your cable!

theforgotten
01-13-2010, 03:33 PM
I have Verizon Fio's and I get the ID channel along with the Crime channel. There good channel's, but I wish they would do an updated story on the 3mw.
I should try to email them and sugest it. This case is the reason I found websleuths.

wfgodot
01-13-2010, 04:00 PM
I have Verizon Fio's and I get the ID channel along with the Crime channel. There good channel's, but I wish they would do an updated story on the 3mw.
I should try to email them and sugest it. This case is the reason I found websleuths.

At this rate, we may not see anything updated till 2012, the twentieth anniversary of this mystery.

Kathee
01-16-2010, 09:55 AM
At this rate, we may not see anything updated till 2012, the twentieth anniversary of this mystery.


So sad, but true! I'm still here working behind the scenes....I will never give up even though there are some who want me too.

wfgodot
01-16-2010, 10:00 AM
So sad, but true! I'm still here working behind the scenes....I will never give up even though there are some who want me too.

You've done great work, Kathee. Me, I mostly just sit here and mull it all over.

theforgotten
01-16-2010, 04:42 PM
So sad, but true! I'm still here working behind the scenes....I will never give up even though there are some who want me too.

Kathee, I thank you for not giving up. Someone posted a couple days ago that the police don't even want to talk about the case. That makes me want to cry. These women were people. They had lives and friends and family that loved them.The police just can't shove them aside and pretend that whatever happened didn't. Keep up the hard work Kathee.

MaryLiz
01-16-2010, 08:15 PM
So sad, but true! I'm still here working behind the scenes....I will never give up even though there are some who want me too.

Kathee, I appreciate all your behind-the-scenes work, as I'm sure we all do. It's due to people like you who don't give up that cases like this are eventually solved.

dale417
01-16-2010, 09:33 PM
[QUOTE=theforgotten;4689463] Someone posted a couple days ago that the police don't even want to talk about the case. That makes me want to cry. These women were people. They had lives and friends and family that loved them.The police just can't shove them aside and pretend that whatever happened didn't.

Simple fact is the police won't talk about it, attempting to keep things under special prosecutors' wraps, judicial gag-orders with out any satisfaction toward any of the three missing womens' families. I would bet the PD is not even working this case much (more concerned about how much they get in retirement). It stinks, it's dirty and an injustice to many people.

Missouri Mule
01-17-2010, 12:01 AM
Kathee, I thank you for not giving up. Someone posted a couple days ago that the police don't even want to talk about the case. That makes me want to cry. These women were people. They had lives and friends and family that loved them.The police just can't shove them aside and pretend that whatever happened didn't. Keep up the hard work Kathee.

That someone was me. I had contacted the newspaper reporter assigned to this case a few years and was informed via e-mail that while the police would discuss other cases they would refuse to discuss this case. Why the local newspaper or media would tolerate this from the police who are paid by the taxpayers is beyond my understanding. One would think we have had a resurrection of the Soviet Union. Personally, I think if the local media would rattle their cages as much as is necessary it would help to move the case along. But if they don't take their duties seriously, the cops get a free ride and can just bury the case, which evidently has happened.

Trooogrit
01-17-2010, 09:06 AM
It is fairly common that the police will not discuss an open case. I am not sure they will ever give out information that has been kept from the public. This is policy with police departments all over the country. This case is one of thousands that has gone unsolved for a long period of time. It may never be solved.

Hurricane
01-17-2010, 09:07 AM
Someone posted a couple days ago that the police don't even want to talk about the case. That makes me want to cry. These women were people. They had lives and friends and family that loved them.The police just can't shove them aside and pretend that whatever happened didn't.

[quote]Simple fact is the police won't talk about it, attempting to keep things under special prosecutors' wraps, judicial gag-orders with out any satisfaction toward any of the three missing womens' families. I would bet the PD is not even working this case much (more concerned about how much they get in retirement). It stinks, it's dirty and an injustice to many people.

There are 30 cases on just the opening page of the Cold Case Forum here on Websleuths. If you read thru them I would wager to say that of those with any substance or discussion ongoing someone always clamors for information from LE to be made public; police cover-up, police incompetence, etc. Such comments come about thru frustration. It’s a common theme here. But the public has no right to such information regardless of how old the case may be or whether it is being actively worked or not. From all indications LE has kept the McCall family in the loop since they are not clamoring of incompetence and cover-ups. We don’t know but I would make the assumption that it is also true that they are keeping Debbie Swartz informed as well. How LE treats Bartt Streeter probably depends on how they view him as a suspect and/or any possible connections he may have had to other suspects. So I’m not sure how all of this is an injustice to may people.

Trooogrit
01-17-2010, 10:54 AM
Make no mistake.... I wish the police would reveal more, however that is not how it is done. Everything in print suggests that there has never been much to go on. If there were a clear motive it would be easier.

Missouri Mule
01-17-2010, 04:23 PM
It is fairly common that the police will not discuss an open case. I am not sure they will ever give out information that has been kept from the public. This is policy with police departments all over the country. This case is one of thousands that has gone unsolved for a long period of time. It may never be solved.

I'm sure that is true but if the public is not brought into the investigation with periodic updates they are unlikely to get timely information if the public believes it will be ignored. Am I wrong?

How many of these thousands of cases have gone unsolved because of insular police forces? Methinks it also numbers in the thousands of cases.

Trooogrit
01-17-2010, 05:46 PM
I'm sure that is true but if the public is not brought into the investigation with periodic updates they are unlikely to get timely information if the public believes it will be ignored. Am I wrong?

How many of these thousands of cases have gone unsolved because of insular police forces? Methinks it also numbers in the thousands of cases.

Well I dont know what to tell you, I dont believe that they will update the public on this. It will either be solved or not solved. Maybe someday they will have a break and it will be solved.

Missouri Mule
01-17-2010, 11:30 PM
Well I dont know what to tell you, I dont believe that they will update the public on this. It will either be solved or not solved. Maybe someday they will have a break and it will be solved.

I would share the essense of a private e-mail if I didn't promise maintaining confidence but I will say this much. A source close to the investigation once told me that one of the primary officers to this case didn't have a clue and furthermore said it would be up my source to break the case. This doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

What I would most like to see from the police department is that they are are squeaky clean. I'm not convinced that is the case. If this was a major drug operation which inspired this crime it is not unreasonable to believe that some high officials had their palms greased.

I was doing some research on Al Capone today and in his heyday he bought off the mayor of Chicago and had most of the cops on his payroll. I simply don't buy the argument that we should give them the benefit of the doubt if they are so arrogant to even discuss the case. At the very least they could go over the already known publicly published facts in chronological order. They give up nothing but they would instill great confidence in the public that the investigation is clean and devoid of corruption. I should think that is the least the public should expect of any police department.

"Through this organized corruption, which included the bribing of Mayor of Chicago William "Big Bill" Hale Thompson, Capone's gang operated largely free from legal intrusion, operating casinos and speakeasies throughout Chicago. Wealth also permitted Capone to indulge in a luxurious lifestyle of custom suits, cigars, gourmet food and drink (his preferred liquor was Templeton Rye from Iowa), jewelry, and female companionship. He garnered media attention, to which his favorite responses was "I am just a businessman, giving the people what they want" and "All I do is satisfy a public demand."[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone#cite_note-five_families_book-5) Capone had become a celebrity."...

(Snip)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone

monkeymann
01-18-2010, 06:56 PM
After obsessing further on this case I've got a couple of points and questions to throw out there:

According to the MoCasenet internet database for missouri courts, Francis Robb Sr.'s trial for 1st Degree Murder was scheduled to start on June 1, 1992.

The proximity to the date the 3MW disappeared bothers me...so to speak.

1.) Supposidly Suzie Streeter was to testify in the "Grave Robbers" trial.

2.) Supposidly either Francis Robb Sr., and/or, some/all of his associates/relatives were rumored to be tied to a "Fencing" operation for stolen goods and Drug/Meth dealing

3.) What if Francis Robb was worried about any loose connections that might tie him solidly to the 1st Degree Murder charges he was facing, and decided to "Eliminate" the loose ends.

4.) If one of the women..."Suzie", who had been rumored to have hung with a "Rougher Crowd", was targeted because she was going to testify to in court regarding the Grave Robbers Case....and possably the Grave Robbers had ties to the Francis Robb clan, and Francis Robb Sr. or the people who were tied to him, thought that Suzie's testimony in the Grave Robbers Case would "Inadvertantly" lead Law Enforcement back to the Francis Robb Sr. clan and their criminal activities...be it a Fencing Operation, or Drugs.

I would also like to point out that according to MoCasenet (2) grave robbers were convicted of Class D-Felonys. The reason I point this out is because some people have attempted to "Down Play" the charges the grave robbers were facing.

Also, one of the Grave Robbers, according to MoCasenet was sent to a Drug Treatment Program as part of his sentence...which PROVES, ONCE AND FOR ALL, that the people that Suzie Streeter ran with, at least some of them, WERE into drug use!

monkeymann
01-18-2010, 07:19 PM
I also read about the discovery of the "Spoon Rings" that were supposidly found in a box with newspaper clipping about the 3MW case, in a crawl space under the old house that "Supposidly" Steven Garrison had formerly lived at.

Heres what I'd like to know:

1.) What "Solid Evidence" is there that Steven Garrison ever lived at that address?

2.) Why was Kathy B. contacted, and the "Supposid Evidence" relenquished to "Her"
FIRST, instead of the SPD?

Missouri Mule
01-18-2010, 11:20 PM
After obsessing further on this case I've got a couple of points and questions to throw out there:

According to the MoCasenet internet database for Missouri courts, Francis Robb Sr.'s trial for 1st Degree Murder was scheduled to start on June 1, 1992.

The proximity to the date the 3MW disappeared bothers me...so to speak.

1.) Supposedly Suzie Streeter was to testify in the "Grave Robbers" trial.

2.) Supposedly either Francis Robb Sr., and/or, some/all of his associates/relatives were rumored to be tied to a "Fencing" operation for stolen goods and Drug/Meth dealing

3.) What if Francis Robb was worried about any loose connections that might tie him solidly to the 1st Degree Murder charges he was facing, and decided to "Eliminate" the loose ends.

4.) If one of the women..."Suzie", who had been rumored to have hung with a "Rougher Crowd", was targeted because she was going to testify to in court regarding the Grave Robbers Case....and possibly the Grave Robbers had ties to the Francis Robb clan, and Francis Robb Sr. or the people who were tied to him, thought that Suzie's testimony in the Grave Robbers Case would "Inadvertently" lead Law Enforcement back to the Francis Robb Sr. clan and their criminal activities...be it a Fencing Operation, or Drugs.

I would also like to point out that according to MoCasenet (2) grave robbers were convicted of Class D-Felonies. The reason I point this out is because some people have attempted to "Down Play" the charges the grave robbers were facing.

Also, one of the Grave Robbers, according to MoCasenet was sent to a Drug Treatment Program as part of his sentence...which PROVES, ONCE AND FOR ALL, that the people that Suzie Streeter ran with, at least some of them, WERE into drug use!

Your analysis seems sound to me. Entirely plausible. Provides a working hypothesis. It is not unreasonable to conclude that one of the various flunkies was the person who was casing the Levitt home. Does this square with the stated motive of "sexual assault" however?

kemo
01-19-2010, 12:18 AM
I was reviewing a few things about this case I hadn't thought about in a while and something interesting occurred to me. It has been my understanding that Suzie was supposed to testify in court against the "grave robbers soon after the "disappearances". On 10/18/09, Indianagirl posted a copy of a July 1992 Kansas City Star article that mentioned that the "Grave robbers" were indicted 2 weeks earlier (two weeks after the "disappearances". Obviously this would not be a trial, they hadn't been indicted. It could only have been a Grand Jury. It would be highly unusual for a Grand Jury to be used in such a small time crime as as "grave robbing". In California, as in most states, DA's can get an indictment by filing a "complaint" and then having a probable cause hearing before a judge. Grand Juries are generally used as an investigative tool where "unwilling" witnesses can be pressured to talk.

If Suzie was going to testify at a Grand Jury, a serious question is raised: was there more to the investigation than just the "grave robbing" case? If there was a Grand Jury, there was probably a lot more to it than grave robbing and the boys may have really been part to something much bigger.

If there was no scheduled testimony, this would tend to lower any chance that the grave robbers were involved since they hadn't even been indicted so Suzie didn't represent any kind of immediate threat.

Does anyone have any more information on here supposed "testimony? Could it have just been rumor?

Hurricane
01-19-2010, 08:23 AM
I was reviewing a few things about this case I hadn't thought about in a while and something interesting occurred to me. It has been my understanding that Suzie was supposed to testify in court against the "grave robbers soon after the "disappearances". On 10/18/09, Indianagirl posted a copy of a July 1992 Kansas City Star article that mentioned that the "Grave robbers" were indicted 2 weeks earlier (two weeks after the "disappearances". Obviously this would not be a trial, they hadn't been indicted. It could only have been a Grand Jury. It would be highly unusual for a Grand Jury to be used in such a small time crime as as "grave robbing". In California, as in most states, DA's can get an indictment by filing a "complaint" and then having a probable cause hearing before a judge. Grand Juries are generally used as an investigative tool where "unwilling" witnesses can be pressured to talk.

If Suzie was going to testify at a Grand Jury, a serious question is raised: was there more to the investigation than just the "grave robbing" case? If there was a Grand Jury, there was probably a lot more to it than grave robbing and the boys may have really been part to something much bigger.

If there was no scheduled testimony, this would tend to lower any chance that the grave robbers were involved since they hadn't even been indicted so Suzie didn't represent any kind of immediate threat.

Does anyone have any more information on here supposed "testimony? Could it have just been rumor?


The Greene county docket sheets prove that this was not a Grand Jury.

Hurricane
01-19-2010, 09:26 AM
After obsessing further on this case I've got a couple of points and questions to throw out there:

According to the MoCasenet internet database for missouri courts, Francis Robb Sr.'s trial for 1st Degree Murder was scheduled to start on June 1, 1992.

The proximity to the date the 3MW disappeared bothers me...so to speak.

1.) Supposidly Suzie Streeter was to testify in the "Grave Robbers" trial.

2.) Supposidly either Francis Robb Sr., and/or, some/all of his associates/relatives were rumored to be tied to a "Fencing" operation for stolen goods and Drug/Meth dealing

3.) What if Francis Robb was worried about any loose connections that might tie him solidly to the 1st Degree Murder charges he was facing, and decided to "Eliminate" the loose ends.

4.) If one of the women..."Suzie", who had been rumored to have hung with a "Rougher Crowd", was targeted because she was going to testify to in court regarding the Grave Robbers Case....and possably the Grave Robbers had ties to the Francis Robb clan, and Francis Robb Sr. or the people who were tied to him, thought that Suzie's testimony in the Grave Robbers Case would "Inadvertantly" lead Law Enforcement back to the Francis Robb Sr. clan and their criminal activities...be it a Fencing Operation, or Drugs.

I would also like to point out that according to MoCasenet (2) grave robbers were convicted of Class D-Felonys. The reason I point this out is because some people have attempted to "Down Play" the charges the grave robbers were facing.

Also, one of the Grave Robbers, according to MoCasenet was sent to a Drug Treatment Program as part of his sentence...which PROVES, ONCE AND FOR ALL, that the people that Suzie Streeter ran with, at least some of them, WERE into drug use!

It’s my opinion that if there is a connection to the Robb farm; if that is where the women were taken that night then the link between the abductors and the Robb’s is thru the fencing operation and possibly personal drug use. Both Frances Sr. and Frances Jr. were locked away at the time. I don’t think that Frances Sr. was worried about anything concerning either fencing of stolen property or drug sales that Suzie or anyone else could have testified to. He had bigger problems, to which he ultimately confessed.

The GJ3 had been locked up since their teens and twenties for crimes such as stealing, breaking & entering, bad checks, escape from custody, etc. Cox’s resume does not list such crimes. The GJ3 had only been out of prison a very short time. If they were working at jobs as required by their parole it would have been some manual labor, hard working jobs. It would have been easy for them to make the leap back to their old ways of stealing and B&E crimes. If they were involved in such crimes they would have ultimately been doing business with a fence such as the Robb’s were said to be.

The two grave robbers who were convicted of a Class-D felony were the two that entered the mausoleum. That is the difference in their convictions vs the 3rd one.

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 09:47 AM
The Docket Sheets show the following as it pertains to the Grave Robbers Case:

Joseph Riedel: 6/22/92

Felony complaint filed. Probable cause found. Warrant issu ed to the Sheriff of Greene County, MO. Bond set at $10,000 .00. BJK/kj

12/4/92
12-4-92 P OF G ON 10-16-92 TO INSTITUTIONAL VANDALISM. DEF T SENT TO DOC FOR TERM OF 3 YRS, SENT SUSP AND DEFT PLACED O N PROB FOR TERM OF 5 YRS. DEFT TO PAY REST. $150.00 PD'S L IEN, $46.00 CVF JDMT AND COURT COST ASSESSED. /JL (1) 3-7-94 PROB REVOKED; SENT OF 12-4-92 IMPOSED. $46.00 CVF J MDT & $25.00 PD'S LIEN ASSESSED. /GMG (1)

03/04/94
State by Ron Carrier. Defendant in person and by atty. PD St eve Lada. Court hears counsel on probation violation and ord ers revocation of deft's probation and orders sentence impos ed by this Court per Sentence and Judgment of 12-04-92. Defe ndant remanded to custody of Sheriff for delivery to DOC. sc Public Defender's Lien of $25.00 filed. sc





Michael K. Clay 6/26/92

Felony complaint filed. Probable cause found. Warrant issu ed. Bond set at $2500.00 each W.I./ia

09/10/92 Bondsman Ailshie requests to be let off the bond due to Deft 's apparent incarceration in California. Bond discharged. New bond set at $10,000.00. Judge Westbrooke acting for Div 21/tdt

09/16/92 Deft Recla in person and by Attorney Yocom. State by Asst. P. A. Davis. Preliminary hearing held. Court finds probable cause to believe that the crime alleged was committed and th at deft. committed it. Case bound over for arraignment in Circuit Court on 9/18/92 at 9:00 A.M. Deft. advised as to l egal consequences of failure to appear. Signed: Bob J. Keete r, Judge, Div. 21. el

12/03/93 P OF G ON 10-1-93 TO INSTITUTIONAL VANDALISM. DEFT SENT TO DOC FOR 5YRS. DEFT PLACED IN MINERAL AREA TREATMEN T CENTER UNDER SEC 559.115. P.D. LIEN OF $150.00 & $46.00 C VF ASSESSED. /HR (4) 3-28-94 DEFT RELEASED UNDER 120-DAY PROB FOR 5YRS EFFECTIVE 4-7-94. /HR 11-18-94 PROB REVOKED & SENT OF 12-3-94 ORDERED EXECUTED. /HR (4)

Dustin Recla 09/17/92

Felony Information and Request for Disclosure by Defendant w ithout Court Order filed

09/10/93 P OF G ON 7-16-93 TO INSTITUTIONAL VANDALISM. DEFT SENT TO DOC FOR TERM OF 3YRS; SENT SUSP AND DEFT PLACED ON P ROB FOR TERM OF 5YRS. DEFT TO PAY REST W/IN 1ST 6MOS OF PROB & TO COMP 150HRS COMM SERV DURING 2ND 6MOS OF 1ST YR OF PRO B. DEFT TO SERVE 14 DAYS OF SHOCK PROB IN GCJ BEG 8:30 AM 9/ 13/93. $46.00 CVF JDMT & COURT COSTS ASSESSED. /GMG

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 09:58 AM
It's just my observation that there just seems to be too many "Coincidental" time lines with certain people and the time line of the 3MW disappearance.

Robb Sr. trial is scheduled to start on 06/01/92

Joseph Riedel is Charged with a Felony in the Grave Robbers case on 06/22/92

Michael Clay is Charged with a Felony in the Grave Robbers case on 06/26/92

Is it just me, or does the time line of all these cases/charges falling in the same month that the 3MW disappeared, seem way way too suspicous???!!!
Especially the Grave Robbers case in which "THERE WAS" a solid connection to Suzie Streeter!

Is it too far fetched to think that those envolved in the Grave Robbers case, could have comitted the crime, and not gotten caught?

May be the police just didn't have enough "SOLID" evidence to establish Probable Cause to arrest them?

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 10:04 AM
Another Note: These guys were facing "Prison Time". If Streeter was to be a witness in their upcoming trials, then it would make perfect sense that their mind set could have been to eliminate the "Threat", and possiably elude having to go to prison.

People have "Disappeared/Died" for a lot less!

Everyone seems to discount the Grave Robbers as not being capable of either comitting the crime, or not being able to keep their mouths shut.

But may be they were wrong?

Just a thought!!

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 10:13 AM
I would still like to know "How Valid" the story of the Spoon Rings being found in a box with other jewelry and newspaper clippings, in a house that Steven Garrison supposidly once occupied, is.

If this in fact "TRUE"....that could be very segnificant to the case. However I have a hard time at this point taking this too seriously. Sorry, but at this point I have a serious problem with the virasaty of the source from which the information came.

It would have to be able to be PROVEN that Steven Garrison had actually lived at the house.
It would also have to be PROVEN that the jewelry and the box of newspaper clippings were actually found in the crawl space of the house.

Would anyone like to help me "Believe" that this is a true story? I'm just being cautiously pesamistic.......

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 10:40 AM
Also:

From what I am seeing in the Mo. Case Net Docket's, Francis Robb, Jr. doesn't appear to have been incarcerated at the time of the 3MW disappearance.
At least not as of: 5/6/92 when he was served with an Ex-Parte order of child protection by the Webster Co. Sherriff's Dept.

05/6/92
Docket Entry: Summons Personally Served
Text: Child Protection Order returned from the Sheriff of Webster County, MO non-est on Francis Lee Robb, Jr. /pb
6/9/92
Docket Entry: Judge/Clerk - Note
Text: Cause dismissed without prejudice at Pltf's costs. TKM/ms

Francis Robb, Jr. doesn't appear to have much of a Court Record according to Mo.Casenet. He is only listed as having a Felony DWI charge in 1994, and then a couple misdemeanors for posession of CS, and for a traffic offence a couple years later.

Where was he Incarcerated/In custody at the time of the 3MW's disappearance?
DOES he have a lengthy police record?

Missouri Mule
01-19-2010, 10:50 AM
Another Note: These guys were facing "Prison Time". If Streeter was to be a witness in their upcoming trials, then it would make perfect sense that their mind set could have been to eliminate the "Threat", and possiably elude having to go to prison.

People have "Disappeared/Died" for a lot less!

Everyone seems to discount the Grave Robbers as not being capable of either committing the crime, or not being able to keep their mouths shut.

But may be they were wrong?

Just a thought!!

I wouldn't want to go that far. If there was other activities involved; especially drugs, that would be exposed during an upcoming trial regarding the grave robbing, it is not unreasonable to believe that there were bigger fish who had a vested interest in the unwelcomed opening of a Pandora's box.

Personally, I doubt they had it within themselves to have committed this crime but others higher up the food chain might not have wanted this to go any further. I'd want to know who their associates were if I were the police investigators.

But it is not impossible that a crime of sexual passion would have led someone to commit a crime they would otherwise not do. It can't be ruled out. How this might square with that mysterious white van circling the neighborhood prior to the abduction doesn't seem to square with this however. Neither one of the known grave robbers fits the description of the driver, based on published accounts.

wfgodot
01-19-2010, 11:01 AM
Agreeing totally with Mule on this one.

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 11:33 AM
With me...It seemed to go either way. I thought about the fact that the Grave Robbers case might have just been the catalist, based on their connections with other "Bad" people, that put the wheels in motion for the 3MW to disappear.

Thats why I'd LOVE to see what the EVIDENCE is regarding the Spoon Rings and Steven Garrison.
Remember that Garrison is the one who lead LE to the farm in Webster Co.

Missouri Mule
01-19-2010, 11:37 AM
We have made reference to the three individuals looked at by the federal grand jury in 1994.

My question is this and I am not an expert in the workings of a grand jury so bear with me. Because three individuals were looked at does this mean that only these individuals are considered or is it possible to bring in other individuals to the grand jury to consider indictment?

For example, if the three individuals cited in various news articles were considered and discarded as not viable would the proceeding end there or could the grand jury be presented with new names and individuals to consider to indict? In particular, was it not possible for the prosecutor to present Robert Cox to the grand jury as a viable suspect if information was available to indict him; perhaps information that came to the prosecutor's knowledge at the time the grand jury was in deliberations.

It has been my understanding that grand juries are convened for a period of time at the prosecutor's discretion or something along those lines. It may have been evident early on that the evidence linking these three was wholly insufficient and if the convening would amount to anything it would have to include new suspects and new information. In the back of my mind I seem to recall that some nine people were actually looked at during this time. And as the published accounts have said, four separate LE agencies concluded that there were 12 agreed upon suspects although not in the same order by all agencies.

Can anyone clear this up for me so I have a better understanding? Thanking you in advance.

Missouri Mule
01-19-2010, 12:01 PM
With me...It seemed to go either way. I thought about the fact that the Grave Robbers case might have just been the catalist, based on their connections with other "Bad" people, that put the wheels in motion for the 3MW to disappear.

Thats why I'd LOVE to see what the EVIDENCE is regarding the Spoon Rings and Steven Garrison.

Remember that Garrison is the one who lead LE to the farm in Webster Co.

Not trying to be picky but how is it we know that he did this? How do we know that it was Garrison? Did he really do this? I think he did; I've seen it eluded to but has that been established? I've not seen that in print.

I ask this question in good faith. I am starting to collect known certain facts about this case to present to a cable network to run a story on this case to get the case moving again. Sometimes I wonder how much we actually know for a certain fact.

kemo
01-19-2010, 02:19 PM
It would appear that the Grave Robbers had preliminary hearings scheduled later in June 1992. Preliminary hearing (at least in California) do not involve testimony from witnesses, just a presentation by the DA of "probable cause". Suzie apparently spoke to police about the case and she may well have been expected to eventually testify at trial, but this would be way down the line. It is not unheard of for a witness to be killed over a "Class D Felony", but I would expect even the most hardned perp to at least try to convince a witness to change her story, particularly an ex-girlfriend of one of the suspects, before resorting to murder.

This doesn't prove anything; it just makes the "timing" look less suspicious and add credence to the claim that the Grave Robbers were effectivly cleared.

From what I understand, Robb Sr. and his associates were quite notorious at the time and were "looked at" for this crime. I am not aware that there was any link between them and any other "suspects". People who ran afoul of this crew had a nasty habit of disappearing during this time. Springfield was big enough that "networks" of burglars/meth users could exist without any overlapping connections yet links would certainly be possible.

If this was "just" a sex crime, it still could involve someone with involvement in other criminal activities. If this was a sex crime, there are definite indications of criminal sophistication.

Hurricane
01-19-2010, 02:47 PM
Agreeing totally with Mule on this one.

How can it be said that the description of the driver of the white van does not match with any of the suspects being discussed here is beyond me. Here is the only known description of the driver that I am aware of, directly from the News-Leader. All underlining is mine:

“A neighbor living near Levitt’s former home (it was sold last week) told police when he was re-contacted this week that a dirty white van had cruised the neighborhood for up to three weeks before the disappearances, detective David Asher said.”


“The driver was described as a white male in his mid-20’s to mid-30’s. He wore prominent sideburns and kept a mane of brown-hair pulled away from his face, Asher said. The witness recalled that the driver wore sleeveless T-shirts.”

“But that’s all police know about him.”

Steven Garrison was 33 yrs old in June, 1992. He has brown hair, some would call it dish-water blonde, and from prison pictures taken at the time of his release he wore it long. While it is impossible to know if he was clean shaven during June 1992 he frequently went back and forth from wearing a full beard to wearing mutton chop/bell bottom side burns. He is fond of wearing sleeveless tee shirts or tee shirts with a cigarette pack rolled up in the sleeve, as witnessed by pictures taken upon his capture from escape in 1990. On June 6th, 1992 he had been out of prison exactly 21 days. If he was working as a painter, roofer, landscaper, concrete worker, or carpet layer at one of the big estate type homes to the west of the Levitt home (any occupation requiring a van) he could very well have been seen twice each day as he came and went. What eliminates Garrison as being the possible driver of the white van?

Michael Clay was in his twenties. His hair is blonde or brown and he wore it long as can be seen on the 48 Hrs video.

It is unknown if Riedel wore his hair long or not, or what color it is. He certainly fits the age bracket as the driver.

Dustin Recla can be eliminated because he wore his hair short as can be seen on the 48 Hrs video.

Robert Cox wore his hair short when employed selling used trucks. Even if he was permitted to he had not been employed as a utility locater long enough to have had long hair.

monkeymann
01-19-2010, 05:38 PM
How can it be said that the description of the driver of the white van does not match with any of the suspects being discussed here is beyond me. Here is the only known description of the driver that I am aware of, directly from the News-Leader. All underlining is mine:

“A neighbor living near Levitt’s former home (it was sold last week) told police when he was re-contacted this week that a dirty white van had cruised the neighborhood for up to three weeks before the disappearances, detective David Asher said.”


“The driver was described as a white male in his mid-20’s to mid-30’s. He wore prominent sideburns and kept a mane of brown-hair pulled away from his face, Asher said. The witness recalled that the driver wore sleeveless T-shirts.”

“But that’s all police know about him.”

Steven Garrison was 33 yrs old in June, 1992. He has brown hair, some would call it dish-water blonde, and from prison pictures taken at the time of his release he wore it long. While it is impossible to know if he was clean shaven during June 1992 he frequently went back and forth from wearing a full beard to wearing mutton chop/bell bottom side burns. He is fond of wearing sleeveless tee shirts or tee shirts with a cigarette pack rolled up in the sleeve, as witnessed by pictures taken upon his capture from escape in 1990. On June 6th, 1992 he had been out of prison exactly 21 days. If he was working as a painter, roofer, landscaper, concrete worker, or carpet layer at one of the big estate type homes to the west of the Levitt home (any occupation requiring a van) he could very well have been seen twice each day as he came and went. What eliminates Garrison as being the possible driver of the white van?

Michael Clay was in his twenties. His hair is blonde or brown and he wore it long as can be seen on the 48 Hrs video.

It is unknown if Riedel wore his hair long or not, or what color it is. He certainly fits the age bracket as the driver.

Dustin Recla can be eliminated because he wore his hair short as can be seen on the 48 Hrs video.

Robert Cox wore his hair short when employed selling used trucks. Even if he was permitted to he had not been employed as a utility locater long enough to have had long hair.


Interesting: If you take a look at Ricky Evans in the mug shot shown in the story about his arrest in 2006 for the disappearance of John Smith and his girlfriend...Ricky Evans is wearing a grey sleeveless shirt, has long brown hair. Ricky Evans was 34 yrs old in 1992. People are creatures of habbit as we all know...wonder how much of a long shot it would be to think that this might have been Ricky Evans that was "Trolling" the neighborhood back then.......Very Interesting. Remember it was Evans' Farm south of Marshfield that John Smith and his girlfriend were supposidly murdered and their bodys disposed of on....the same farm that the police came and dug up and found some bones that a medical examiner said showed signs of having been in a fire, as well as being cut on with a saw or other cutting tool.

Indianagirl
01-22-2010, 09:55 PM
For clarification, does anyone know the story behind Suzie and the graverobbers? I've seen conflicting stories on different sites. Was she arrested with them? The only known information that I've been able to find is from the 48 Hours tape. It says Recla and Clay were scheduled to stand trial the week after Suzie's disappearance, but the charges were dropped for lack of witnesses. Suzie was a witness. The charges were later refiled.

Trooogrit
01-22-2010, 09:57 PM
Interesting: If you take a look at Ricky Evans in the mug shot shown in the story about his arrest in 2006 for the disappearance of John Smith and his girlfriend...Ricky Evans is wearing a grey sleeveless shirt, has long brown hair. Ricky Evans was 34 yrs old in 1992. People are creatures of habbit as we all know...wonder how much of a long shot it would be to think that this might have been Ricky Evans that was "Trolling" the neighborhood back then.......Very Interesting. Remember it was Evans' Farm south of Marshfield that John Smith and his girlfriend were supposidly murdered and their bodys disposed of on....the same farm that the police came and dug up and found some bones that a medical examiner said showed signs of having been in a fire, as well as being cut on with a saw or other cutting tool.
Why would he tie to this case?

Trooogrit
01-22-2010, 10:10 PM
I would still like to know "How Valid" the story of the Spoon Rings being found in a box with other jewelry and newspaper clippings, in a house that Steven Garrison supposidly once occupied, is.

If this in fact "TRUE"....that could be very segnificant to the case. However I have a hard time at this point taking this too seriously. Sorry, but at this point I have a serious problem with the virasaty of the source from which the information came.

It would have to be able to be PROVEN that Steven Garrison had actually lived at the house.
It would also have to be PROVEN that the jewelry and the box of newspaper clippings were actually found in the crawl space of the house.

Would anyone like to help me "Believe" that this is a true story? I'm just being cautiously pesamistic.......
Steven Garrison never lived at that house, nor any of his family members.

Indianagirl
01-22-2010, 11:43 PM
I just wanted to add, I just read a great cold case book called "This Night Wounds Time", which had the following great quote:
"Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, via his creation Sherlock Holmes, once said, "As a rule, the more bizarre a thing is the less mysterious it proves to be. In other words, as William of Occam first put forth in the 14th century hypothesis known as "Occam's Razor," if two or more cometing theories exist to explain a given action, outcome, or event, more often than not, the theory that is the least complicated will prove to be the correct one."

wfgodot
01-23-2010, 12:08 AM
I just wanted to add, I just read a great cold case book called "This Night Wounds Time", which had the following great quote:
"Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, via his creation Sherlock Holmes, once said, "As a rule, the more bizarre a thing is the less mysterious it proves to be. In other words, as William of Occam first put forth in the 14th century hypothesis known as "Occam's Razor," if two or more cometing theories exist to explain a given action, outcome, or event, more often than not, the theory that is the least complicated will prove to be the correct one."

Occam's Razor has long been a favorite of mine.

Question: in applying Occam's Razor to 3MW, where does that leave us? What is the least complicated theory which might explain what happened in Springfield the night of the sixth and seventh of June in 1992?

Hurricane
01-23-2010, 08:56 AM
I just wanted to add, I just read a great cold case book called "This Night Wounds Time", which had the following great quote:
"Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, via his creation Sherlock Holmes, once said, "As a rule, the more bizarre a thing is the less mysterious it proves to be. In other words, as William of Occam first put forth in the 14th century hypothesis known as "Occam's Razor," if two or more cometing theories exist to explain a given action, outcome, or event, more often than not, the theory that is the least complicated will prove to be the correct one."

I like it! Unnecessary complexity should be avoided; an axiom of the KISS principle. In working thru all of the rumors, misinformation and disinformation concerning this case that just never seems to go away, I always liked this quote:

“Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn’t. And contrary wise, what it is, it wouldn’t be. And what it wouldn’t be, it would. You see?” – Alice in Wonderland.

monkeymann
01-23-2010, 12:02 PM
Why would he tie to this case?

Ricky Evan's Farm (the one he was renting at the time), in webster county, was the site of one of the searchs conducted for the 3MW, based on a tip/informant information.
Evans was a good friend of Francis Robb. Evans had supposidly killed two people and disposed of them on his farm. Francis Robb, Sr. had killed three people and disposed of them on Robb's farm...which supposidly south of cassville, mo.

monkeymann
01-23-2010, 12:11 PM
What I was getting at is there may have been a connection between the grave robbers and the Evans/Robb clan. If it was true that Suzie was going to testify in the upcoming trial of the grave robbers, and somehow unknown to law enforcement, there was a tie between the grave robbers and some illegal activitly that Evans/Robb clan were involved in, its not too much of a stretch, especially with the violent history of the Evans/Robb clan, to think that they might have had a vested interest in seeing Suzie and Sherrill disappear (Sherrill, because I'm sure they would have figured that mother knows anything that daughter did....because of their mother/daughter relationship). Also the Francis Robb, Sr. trial for the murders at the Cassville Farm was scheduled to begain on 6/1/92.

Trooogrit
01-23-2010, 12:15 PM
Ricky Evan's Farm (the one he was renting at the time), in webster county, was the site of one of the searchs conducted for the 3MW, based on a tip/informant information.
Evans was a good friend of Francis Robb. Evans had supposidly killed two people and disposed of them on his farm. Francis Robb, Sr. had killed three people and disposed of them on Robb's farm...which supposidly south of cassville, mo.Uh I think you might have your facts mixed up. The farm Ricky Evans lived at that was searched was closer to Marshfield if I remember correctly and the Robb farm was closer to Northview. Casseville is at least an hour south of Springfield. The Robb farm was searched in 1993, and was also searched for the murder case against Francis Robb which was in 1989.

Missouri Mule
01-23-2010, 03:28 PM
I have a question for anyone who wants to speculate.

As we know from published accounts after the friends arrived at the home, the glass debris was swept away and discarded. The question of where the glass shards are will evidently forever be a mystery. Leaving that aside, I wonder where the broom or sweeping device came from with which to sweep up the shards. It also would have required a dustpan or something flat and large enough to contain the broken pieces which were then discarded somewhere. Somehow I don't think it was likely that the broom and dustpan would have been carried in the car from which to clean the porch. Just my idle thoughts for today. An insignificant point perhaps but this would be a deliberate, conscious act prior to entering the home if the published accounts are accurate, as I recall.

I ask this question for this reason. Did it not occur to these folks that perhaps this was unusual when first observed and as they went into the house it would have been obvious immediately the women were not there. As I recall, the time of their arrival was some period of time (around noon?) after they had planned to have mustered up to go down to White Water. Already, there must have been some concern if the time line I recall is accurate. How might any of us acted under similar circumstances? I wonder if the police bothered to pursue this thoroughly. I find this troubling.

Thoughts?

theforgotten
01-23-2010, 04:19 PM
I have a question for anyone who wants to speculate.
I ask this question for this reason. Did it not occur to these folks that perhaps this was unusual when first observed and as they went into the house it would have been obvious immediately the women were not there. As I recall, the time of their arrival was some period of time (around noon?) after they had planned to have mustered up to go down to White Water. Already, there must have been some concern if the time line I recall is accurate. How might any of us acted under similar circumstances? I wonder if the police bothered to pursue this thoroughly. I find this troubling.

Thoughts?

You know I've thought about this aspect of the case over and over again through the years. They were very young when this happened and maybe they weren't thinking and cleaned up the glass. I know, I do a lot of things without thinking first. I just can't imagine making plans with friends and going to there house a couple of times and their not there. That is the point makes me crazy. Why did they wait until noon to call someone? I mean for gods sakes, the door was unlocked,the tv was on, and the dog was alone. Then when they do call Stacys mother, then friends and family come over and walk through the house. Why couldn't they wait till the police came. I know this was years before Csi and Criminal minds and the other shows, but still.:banghead:

I would not be so calm if this happened to people I know. Maybe everyone involved that day, looks back now and regrets some of their actions on that day. In retrospect things are much clearer.

Trooogrit
01-23-2010, 06:16 PM
I have a question for anyone who wants to speculate.

As we know from published accounts after the friends arrived at the home, the glass debris was swept away and discarded. The question of where the glass shards are will evidently forever be a mystery. Leaving that aside, I wonder where the broom or sweeping device came from with which to sweep up the shards. It also would have required a dustpan or something flat and large enough to contain the broken pieces which were then discarded somewhere. Somehow I don't think it was likely that the broom and dustpan would have been carried in the car from which to clean the porch. Just my idle thoughts for today. An insignificant point perhaps but this would be a deliberate, conscious act prior to entering the home if the published accounts are accurate, as I recall.

I ask this question for this reason. Did it not occur to these folks that perhaps this was unusual when first observed and as they went into the house it would have been obvious immediately the women were not there. As I recall, the time of their arrival was some period of time (around noon?) after they had planned to have mustered up to go down to White Water. Already, there must have been some concern if the time line I recall is accurate. How might any of us acted under similar circumstances? I wonder if the police bothered to pursue this thoroughly. I find this troubling.

Thoughts?If someone doesnt come home at night, people become concerned. In this case it was morning/early afternoon, with the house appearing as the residents stepped out for a short time. I do not believe this would be cause for alarm. I think common sense would tell me that there is a good reason for these people to be gone, and that they would be back soon. What occurred would not have entered anyones mind until later.

monkeymann
01-24-2010, 01:26 AM
Uh I think you might have your facts mixed up. The farm Ricky Evans lived at that was searched was closer to Marshfield if I remember correctly and the Robb farm was closer to Northview. Casseville is at least an hour south of Springfield. The Robb farm was searched in 1993, and was also searched for the murder case against Francis Robb which was in 1989.

I don't mean to be contrary, but according to Mo.Casenet Court docket entrys the Francis Robb, Sr. Murder Trial was scheduled to start on 06/01/1992.

And, the one of the main articles that was printed by I think Ky3 News very specifically stated that at least one search was conducted at a property south of Cassville.

Incidently, If one were to drive east out of town on Cherry, you can follow a couple county roads that snake south and east...right down to where the former Ricky Evans farm is located.

Ricky Evans farm was on KK Hwy. many miles south west of Marshfield.

Ricky Evans didn't supposidly kill the two people he had been accussed of killing until 1996.

And I'm still confused as to the actual location of the Francis Robb, Sr. Farm.

Also there was a location that Law Enforcement searched that was a dumping site for a concrete company as well.

It would be nice for some one to outline these propertys correctly to help eleaviate the confusion.

Trooogrit
01-24-2010, 06:23 AM
I don't mean to be contrary, but according to Mo.Casenet Court docket entrys the Francis Robb, Sr. Murder Trial was scheduled to start on 06/01/1992.

And, the one of the main articles that was printed by I think Ky3 News very specifically stated that at least one search was conducted at a property south of Cassville.

Incidently, If one were to drive east out of town on Cherry, you can follow a couple county roads that snake south and east...right down to where the former Ricky Evans farm is located.

Ricky Evans farm was on KK Hwy. many miles south west of Marshfield.

Ricky Evans didn't supposidly kill the two people he had been accussed of killing until 1996.

And I'm still confused as to the actual location of the Francis Robb, Sr. Farm.

Also there was a location that Law Enforcement searched that was a dumping site for a concrete company as well.

It would be nice for some one to outline these propertys correctly to help eleaviate the confusion.All three locations are seperate and are miles apart. The trial for Robb was scheduled in 92, but the crimes occurred in 1989.

monkeymann
01-24-2010, 10:49 AM
All three locations are seperate and are miles apart. The trial for Robb was scheduled in 92, but the crimes occurred in 1989.

Ok...I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Keeping with the old addage of things are usually explained with the easiest explanation.

I would place the Grave Robbers or known associates (Poss. Robb/Evans clan) at the top of the suspect list. Especially considering the direct connection to Suzie Streeter...ie Ex-boyfriend was one of the Grave Robbers. The fact (If true) that Suzie Streeter was scheduled to testify at their upcoming trial that started in late June 1992. The Proximity of them being charged with the crimes, to the timeframe of the disappearance of the 3MW. The Robb Trial starting on 6/01/92...if there was a connection to him, and the violent history of both the Robb's and Evans and co. The area of the Robb Farm was a hop skip and a jump from springfield and could have been easily driven to by going out east cherry street, as has been the speculated route of travel for the perps, (if the van sighting by the porch lady was a valid lead)

Hurricane
01-24-2010, 12:41 PM
What I was getting at is there may have been a connection between the grave robbers and the Evans/Robb clan. If it was true that Suzie was going to testify in the upcoming trial of the grave robbers, and somehow unknown to law enforcement, there was a tie between the grave robbers and some illegal activitly that Evans/Robb clan were involved in, its not too much of a stretch, especially with the violent history of the Evans/Robb clan, to think that they might have had a vested interest in seeing Suzie and Sherrill disappear (Sherrill, because I'm sure they would have figured that mother knows anything that daughter did....because of their mother/daughter relationship). Also the Francis Robb, Sr. trial for the murders at the Cassville Farm was scheduled to begain on 6/1/92.

For some time Francis Robb Sr. had been in jail awaiting trial for murder. If there was a connection between Robb and the grave robbers as you suggest, I doubt seriously that Francis Robb Sr. was concerned with anything Suzie might know and testify to, that he would orchestrate the abduction and disappearance of the 3MW. He had other problems which he could not beat and ultimately plead guilty to murder.

Looking from your viewpoint one question which never gets answered: If worried about what testimony in a small time case of institutional vandalism might lay at his doorstep, why would (Robb; Little; Mr. Big; plug in name of your choice) orchestrate the abduction and disappearance of the women instead of eliminating the connection to themselves; Recla, Reidel, & Clay?

Valiant
01-24-2010, 01:54 PM
My thoughts? I know a lot of people in my neighborhood have carports like this house did. It's very common for there to be a broom, dustpan and even a garbage can sitting on the carport in plain sight.

I have a question for anyone who wants to speculate.

As we know from published accounts after the friends arrived at the home, the glass debris was swept away and discarded. The question of where the glass shards are will evidently forever be a mystery. Leaving that aside, I wonder where the broom or sweeping device came from with which to sweep up the shards. It also would have required a dustpan or something flat and large enough to contain the broken pieces which were then discarded somewhere. Somehow I don't think it was likely that the broom and dustpan would have been carried in the car from which to clean the porch. Just my idle thoughts for today. An insignificant point perhaps but this would be a deliberate, conscious act prior to entering the home if the published accounts are accurate, as I recall.

I ask this question for this reason. Did it not occur to these folks that perhaps this was unusual when first observed and as they went into the house it would have been obvious immediately the women were not there. As I recall, the time of their arrival was some period of time (around noon?) after they had planned to have mustered up to go down to White Water. Already, there must have been some concern if the time line I recall is accurate. How might any of us acted under similar circumstances? I wonder if the police bothered to pursue this thoroughly. I find this troubling.

Thoughts?

Missouri Mule
01-24-2010, 02:11 PM
My thoughts? I know a lot of people in my neighborhood have carports like this house did. It's very common for there to be a broom, dustpan and even a garbage can sitting on the carport in plain sight.

I agree. That would make perfect sense if those items were there but we don't know that and the statements in the media have never addressed this obvious question.

In the event these items were not in the carport, then logically entry would have had to have been made to go into the house to obtain those items. It should have been obvious immediately to anyone with good eyesight that something was wrong. It was at that point that someone should have blown the whistle and started the investigation. But hindsight is always 100%. We are still left with the question of how that porch was cleaned since we were never told.

Thank you for your thoughts, however.

kemo
01-24-2010, 02:25 PM
Ok...I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Keeping with the old addage of things are usually explained with the easiest explanation.

I would place the Grave Robbers or known associates (Poss. Robb/Evans clan) at the top of the suspect list. Especially considering the direct connection to Suzie Streeter...ie Ex-boyfriend was one of the Grave Robbers. The fact (If true) that Suzie Streeter was scheduled to testify at their upcoming trial that started in late June 1992. The Proximity of them being charged with the crimes, to the timeframe of the disappearance of the 3MW. The Robb Trial starting on 6/01/92...if there was a connection to him, and the violent history of both the Robb's and Evans and co. The area of the Robb Farm was a hop skip and a jump from springfield and could have been easily driven to by going out east cherry street, as has been the speculated route of travel for the perps, (if the van sighting by the porch lady was a valid lead)

Monkeyman, from your post (#444), there was no trial for the grave robbers in June 1992, only a "probable cause hearing". They had not even been indited at the time of the disappearances. There would have been no testimony from witnesses. (if Missouri is different from other states and there would have been some witness testimony, someone please let me know). Assuming there was no scheduled testimony, this takes the grave robbers of the top of any list.

Cherry St is definitly on the way to the Robb farm, but that doesn't mean much unless some sort of connection can be made between the grave robbers and the Robb "gang". It is all just speculation. It puts the Robb/Evans network at the same level as Garrison, Carnahan, Cox, the Cheevers crew etc: local bad actors that were perfectly capable of such a crime but lacking any motive or connection the the crime.

My understanding is that there was a lot of talk in Springfield about the Robb "gang" as suspects eary in the investigation (probably connected to Francis's trial.) Presuably they were checked out by the SPD. It would be interesting to know what the investigation turned up.

monkeymann
01-25-2010, 12:30 AM
One of the Grave Robbers was sentenced to a Rehab Program as part of his sentence in the Grave Robbers Case. My thought was that there might have been a Drug connection between the Grave Robbers and the Robbs'/Evans. Evans was supposidly dealing Meth at the time he supposidly murdered the two people on his farm.
If there was a Drug Connection of which someone believed might be compromised in someway by Suzies testimony then who knows. Who knows how much information Suzie was privy to ? If one of the guys had been her boyfriend at one time, she probably knew pretty much about him...at least to some degree. Especially if she was into what ever he was into as well. (I know its never been proven one way or another if she was into drugs). However Bartt Streeter was...and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...so to speak!

theforgotten
01-25-2010, 10:42 AM
I've always wondered about how saintly Suzie was. She had the tendency to date questionable men. I've always wondered what kind of bad things she was into. Could this have been the reason Stacy and Suzie were not really close friends? Just thinking out load!

gaia227
01-25-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't think Suzie was ever accused of being saintly or at least I never thought of her that way. From what I understood she was more of a wild child, liked to party, drink, do drugs,hang out with older guys, she smoked which in high school was usually indicitive of 'rebel' or 'party-girl', and the fact her mother let her smoke and bought her cigarrettes for her has always made me think Sherrill was a pretty lenient mother letting Suzi kind of do her own thing, etc. Stacey was much more of your popular high school girl into student gov't, cheerleading ,etc. Now that I think about it I don't where or how I formed these opinions about the 2 girls but that is always how I have thought of them of course that is not to say I am right.

theforgotten
01-25-2010, 06:02 PM
Sorry, saintly may not have been the right term.

wfgodot
01-25-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't think Suzie was ever accused of being saintly or at least I never thought of her that way. From what I understood she was more of a wild child, liked to party, drink, do drugs,hang out with older guys, she smoked which in high school was usually indicitive of 'rebel' or 'party-girl', and the fact her mother let her smoke and bought her cigarrettes for her has always made me think Sherrill was a pretty lenient mother letting Suzi kind of do her own thing, etc. Stacey was much more of your popular high school girl into student gov't, cheerleading ,etc. Now that I think about it I don't where or how I formed these opinions about the 2 girls but that is always how I have thought of them of course that is not to say I am right.

Yep, me too, and "exactly" to all of the above. I always thought it odd that, although Suzie & Stacey were friends in grade school, they'd parted ways in the meantime but got back together not long before graduation. Maybe "odd" isn't the right term, but it seemed an out-of-the-ordinary thing in the procession of their lives - and thus might hold a clue as to what happened.

Hurricane
01-25-2010, 06:57 PM
Yep, me too, and "exactly" to all of the above. I always thought it odd that, although Suzie & Stacey were friends in grade school, they'd parted ways in the meantime but got back together not long before graduation. Maybe "odd" isn't the right term, but it seemed an out-of-the-ordinary thing in the procession of their lives - and thus might hold a clue as to what happened.

The McCall's moved away from Springfield while the girls were still in grade school, returning when they were in their junior year I think it was.

wfgodot
01-25-2010, 07:04 PM
The McCall's moved away from Springfield while the girls were still in grade school, returning when they were in their junior year I think it was.

Thanks, Hurricane. That puts it in context. Still, I wonder if Suzie was trying to step back from the crowd she was running with (the graverobbin' drug-users), or if Stacey was trying to run with a faster crowd. Probably neither; probably just childhood friends finding one another again. It does make me wonder, though.

monkeymann
01-25-2010, 08:54 PM
I still think the circle of friends in the grave robbers case needs to be looked at closer.
The timeline of the disappearance happening on "Graduation Night" has also bothered be for a long time.
Is there any segificance to the disappearances occuring on such a seginificant night? I don't know?

theforgotten
01-27-2010, 12:46 PM
The timeline of the disappearance happening on "Graduation Night" has also bothered be for a long time.
Is there any segificance to the disappearances occuring on such a seginificant night? I don't know?

I really can't speak to the grave digger issue, but I think the graduation night issue is interesting. I've always wondered if one of the woman had a stalker and maybe didn't know it (it sounds weird). I wonder if the person responsible followed them the whole night and for some reason decided that was the night to act. I just wonder if one person could take control of three women. I'm just thinking out loud.

monkeymann
01-28-2010, 12:32 PM
I really can't speak to the grave digger issue, but I think the graduation night issue is interesting. I've always wondered if one of the woman had a stalker and maybe didn't know it (it sounds weird). I wonder if the person responsible followed them the whole night and for some reason decided that was the night to act. I just wonder if one person could take control of three women. I'm just thinking out loud.

I've always thought that the whole incident occuring on "Graduation Night", was more then just a coincidence. I mean really....What are the Odds...of this incident occuring on Graduation Night, and there not being some connection to it occuring on Graduation Night.

I don't know....May be it was nothing...But my gut feeling says that "Graduation Night"....played a role in this crime...one way or the other.

Either it was planned out and Graduation Night seemed like a good time to do it based on where certain people were known to be going to that particular night...ie. the partys.

Or Graduation night was a night that it was known that High School kids were going to be out and about. Ie. Good night, full of opportuntiy for stalking, by bad people looking for victims.

I've also wondered if someone was jelious that she was graduating, ie. the Brother, and decided to pay her back. May be Suzie was the "Golden Child" in Sherrells Eyes, and the brother decided it was pay back time....I've always wondered about this theory. I don't know how solid the brothers aliby was, or what kind of crowd he ran with back in the day...or if he had any connections to some of the bad people of Springfield?

I've also wondered about the Last Place the girls were seen at. The Kirbys where they were suppose to be spending the night. Thats was the starting point of the "Path" that took them back to Suzie Streeters house. What was Janell Kirbys alibi? What kind of a crowd did she run with?

Anyone have any further thoughts on this???????

theforgotten
01-28-2010, 05:57 PM
The Kirby thing was interesting. The family had to know at least a week ahead of time who would be staying in their home. These people had to make travel plans and get off from work. I've always wondered about the Bar or restaurant sighting and how accurate that was. Has anyone ever seen the waitress interviewed? I wonder if she still believes that it was them that she saw that night.

Trooogrit
01-29-2010, 08:27 PM
The Kirby thing was interesting. The family had to know at least a week ahead of time who would be staying in their home. These people had to make travel plans and get off from work. I've always wondered about the Bar or restaurant sighting and how accurate that was. Has anyone ever seen the waitress interviewed? I wonder if she still believes that it was them that she saw that night.The Kirby thing? You mean the house being full of people and no where for the girls to sleep? Remember the girls were supposed to go to Branson that night, I am sure that was planned several days in advance as well. Obviously the plans changed.

Everything in print sais the George's sighting was a dead end and the womans claims could not be substantiated. It doesnt rule it out completely, but no one else there could verify what she said.

theforgotten
01-30-2010, 03:26 PM
Thank you. I forgot that they were supposed to go to Branson that night.

Missouri Mule
02-02-2010, 10:13 AM
I haven't commented in a few days. In my opinion, this case will most probably have to be solved by the feds using the RICO statutes. Yesterday's massacre in Juarez, Mexico settled that issue for me. As one LE officer told me in 1992 this case would not be solved and I didn't want to believe it; I believe it now. But optimism springs eternal. Miracles occasionally do happen.

monkeymann
02-02-2010, 02:23 PM
I haven't commented in a few days. In my opinion, this case will most probably have to be solved by the feds using the RICO statutes. Yesterday's massacre in Juarez, Mexico settled that issue for me. As one LE officer told me in 1992 this case would not be solved and I didn't want to believe it; I believe it now. But optimism springs eternal. Miracles occasionally do happen.


Ok....So how do you come to the conclusion that the R.I.C.O. Statutes play into this crime and/or it being solved?????

Missouri Mule
02-02-2010, 05:46 PM
Ok....So how do you come to the conclusion that the R.I.C.O. Statutes play into this crime and/or it being solved?????

So far as I know the RICO Statutes were used largely for the purpose of taking down organized crime. If we can assume that the local LE authorities can't break down the wall of silence and if there was any drug connections it is not a stretch to think in terms of known criminal gangs that would want certain people not to talk about them. This link describes the laws pertaining to this body of laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

This is another law that may apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Criminal_Enterprise

Trooogrit
02-06-2010, 01:22 PM
So far as I know the RICO Statutes were used largely for the purpose of taking down organized crime. If we can assume that the local LE authorities can't break down the wall of silence and if there was any drug connections it is not a stretch to think in terms of known criminal gangs that would want certain people not to talk about them. This link describes the laws pertaining to this body of laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

This is another law that may apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Criminal_Enterprise

There was no drug connection established. I guess the closest thing is if you believe that there is unknown information that supports drug activity. I know that some people use the grave robbers as a potential source for motive, because of Suzie's testimony against them and associates of the three. This is the simplest explanation for the disappearence of all. However this did not solve the crime. So evolving this to known criminal gangs is a stretch.

monkeymann
02-08-2010, 11:36 AM
There was no drug connection established. I guess the closest thing is if you believe that there is unknown information that supports drug activity. I know that some people use the grave robbers as a potential source for motive, because of Suzie's testimony against them and associates of the three. This is the simplest explanation for the disappearence of all. However this did not solve the crime. So evolving this to known criminal gangs is a stretch.


After several years of research and various theorys that have evolved, and keeping with the K.I.S.S. Principle, and with the statistically proven fact that most violent crimes perpatrated upon people, are committed by people that are close to them, as opposed to total strangers..............I believe that if it can be PROVEN that Susie Streeter was going to testify agains't the Grave Robbers...and again I state, if it CAN BE PROVEN....then I would have to put the Grave Robbers and their Known Associates at the TOP of the suspect list. It just make common sense.

Missouri Mule
02-08-2010, 12:35 PM
After several years of research and various theorys that have evolved, and keeping with the K.I.S.S. Principle, and with the statistically proven fact that most violent crimes perpatrated upon people, are committed by people that are close to them, as opposed to total strangers..............I believe that if it can be PROVEN that Susie Streeter was going to testify agains't the Grave Robbers...and again I state, if it CAN BE PROVEN....then I would have to put the Grave Robbers and their Known Associates at the TOP of the suspect list. It just make common sense.

Does that belief square with this account posted earlier? If Garrison was involved did he have an on-going relationship with the grave robbing suspects? Supposedly, he was going to give up the location of the remains but clammed up at the last minute. Depending on who one chooses to believe Garrison has considerable credibility or none as an earlier poster from 2004 said here who evidently had access to and perhaps participated in the search. If he was referring to a different person I would be surprised. It is not altogether surprising that Cox referred to "Steve" who I believe we can safely assume to be Garrison. Both had a background in this kind of criminal behavior. Did either one of these individuals have any connection to the grave robbers? I have no idea.

"Detectives share view in case of missing women
Chillicothe (Mo.) Constitution-Tribune
November 13, 1995

Springfield, MO, (AP)- A group of veteran detectives who have reviewed the 1992 disappearance of three women has reached the same conclusions as police did.

The three women –Sherrill Levitt, her daughter Suzanne Streeter and Streeter’s classmate Stacy McCall- all were apparently abducted from Levitt’s home in June 1992.

The Missouri Violent Crime Support Unit has finished reviewing the case files, and close to 30 leads will be re-examined, said police Capt. Darrell Crick.

The support unit and Springfield investigators agreed that the motive was sexual assault, rather than drug dealing. They also agreed on the same list of suspects, although the two groups ranked them differently on a scale of suspicion.

Police stopped working the case full time last spring, and the list of suspects still stands at about 12."

Hurricane
02-08-2010, 02:21 PM
After several years of research and various theorys that have evolved, and keeping with the K.I.S.S. Principle, and with the statistically proven fact that most violent crimes perpatrated upon people, are committed by people that are close to them, as opposed to total strangers..............I believe that if it can be PROVEN that Susie Streeter was going to testify agains't the Grave Robbers...and again I state, if it CAN BE PROVEN....then I would have to put the Grave Robbers and their Known Associates at the TOP of the suspect list. It just make common sense.

I believe the KISS principle applies itself well to this case also. Just because it has not been solved does not mean that it is a complicated case involving a great number of people entered together into a massive conspiracy in order to carry out and then cover up this crime in the Queen City, as some here would have you believe. And I am in agreement with the Missouri Violent Crime Support group and SPD that the ultimate motive in this case became sexual assault. That does not mean that the original motive might have been something as simple as a B&E or home robbery. That does not mean that a sexual assault was carried out somewhere in that house and that LE is at fault because it appears then that the house was not processed accordingly. The scenario could have been something as simple as the fact that there was no money found (the $800 was overlooked) or valuables worth stealing so the crime turned sexual (if the money had been found it may have turned sexual anyway) and the women were removed from the home for that purpose.

In my opinion the problem with this crime being perpetrated by someone close to the women as opposed to being carried out by total strangers to them is the fact that they were removed from the house. And I think the reason why they were removed from the house was because there were three of them. We don’t know if Sherrill was home alone when the perps made entry and the girls arrived while they were still there, or if the girls were already home when the perps entered. At any rate, the perps ended up with having to control the three and did so by removing them from the house.

The GJ3 had all been locked up together continuously since their teens and early 20’s for crimes such as B&E, robbery, and stealing. Garrison had only been out of prison 21 days to the day of the abduction of the 3MW; hardly time to forge friendships with either Cox or the grave robbers. That’s why his friends were those he had been locked up with all those years, and why they re-grouped together in Springfield after getting out. Garrison may not have actually participated in the abduction; he may have only heard about it from a drunken friend as he claimed. One of the GJ3 has a drinking problem, leading to many of his crimes and arrests. But Garrison went on to rob and rape a college coed in 1993. When he took LE on the search for bodies he was only being held on a felon in possession of a weapon charge. He had not been connected as a suspect in the coed rape at that time. He may have originally thought about ratting on his friends in order to leverage a deal on the weapons charge, perhaps hoping to leave town before becoming a suspect in the coed rape. He must have concluded that any publicity was bad for him, and he called off his cooperation, letting sleeping dogs lie.

Trooogrit
02-08-2010, 04:19 PM
After several years of research and various theorys that have evolved, and keeping with the K.I.S.S. Principle, and with the statistically proven fact that most violent crimes perpatrated upon people, are committed by people that are close to them, as opposed to total strangers..............I believe that if it can be PROVEN that Susie Streeter was going to testify agains't the Grave Robbers...and again I state, if it CAN BE PROVEN....then I would have to put the Grave Robbers and their Known Associates at the TOP of the suspect list. It just make common sense. Well I agree and I believe of all the motives, that one was extensively looked at. It makes sense to look at them closely. Now what? They all passed polygraphs, the friends of these guys were questioned extensively. Nobody cracked? None of them in 18 years has told anyone? I dont buy it, but tying them to known gangs is the stretch I am talking about.

Missouri Mule
02-08-2010, 04:35 PM
I believe the KISS principle applies itself well to this case also. Just because it has not been solved does not mean that it is a complicated case involving a great number of people entered together into a massive conspiracy in order to carry out and then cover up this crime in the Queen City, as some here would have you believe. And I am in agreement with the Missouri Violent Crime Support group and SPD that the ultimate motive in this case became sexual assault. That does not mean that the original motive might have been something as simple as a B&E or home robbery. That does not mean that a sexual assault was carried out somewhere in that house and that LE is at fault because it appears then that the house was not processed accordingly. The scenario could have been something as simple as the fact that there was no money found (the $800 was overlooked) or valuables worth stealing so the crime turned sexual (if the money had been found it may have turned sexual anyway) and the women were removed from the home for that purpose.

In my opinion the problem with this crime being perpetrated by someone close to the women as opposed to being carried out by total strangers to them is the fact that they were removed from the house. And I think the reason why they were removed from the house was because there were three of them. We don’t know if Sherrill was home alone when the perps made entry and the girls arrived while they were still there, or if the girls were already home when the perps entered. At any rate, the perps ended up with having to control the three and did so by removing them from the house.

The GJ3 had all been locked up together continuously since their teens and early 20’s for crimes such as B&E, robbery, and stealing. Garrison had only been out of prison 21 days to the day of the abduction of the 3MW; hardly time to forge friendships with either Cox or the grave robbers. That’s why his friends were those he had been locked up with all those years, and why they re-grouped together in Springfield after getting out. Garrison may not have actually participated in the abduction; he may have only heard about it from a drunken friend as he claimed. One of the GJ3 has a drinking problem, leading to many of his crimes and arrests. But Garrison went on to rob and rape a college coed in 1993. When he took LE on the search for bodies he was only being held on a felon in possession of a weapon charge. He had not been connected as a suspect in the coed rape at that time. He may have originally thought about ratting on his friends in order to leverage a deal on the weapons charge, perhaps hoping to leave town before becoming a suspect in the coed rape. He must have concluded that any publicity was bad for him, and he called off his cooperation, letting sleeping dogs lie.

I've wondered the same thing whether it might have turned into a sexual assault case although the originating action was something else. That's a valid point although the article I quoted from an earlier poster does not lend itself to that interpretation. The article itself leaves no wiggle room so far as I can tell. It didn't say that the ultimate motive was sexual assault only that it was sexual assault. So one is left to wonder.

Let us stipulate that it played out as you posit. What does one make of the three week surveillance on the home? Would that be for the mere intention of burglarizing the home? Certainly that would be taking extreme measures to ensure a successful entry into the home, would it not?

I've heard two versions of the alleged confession to the location of the bodies. One comes from a much earlier poster who, as I said, appears almost certainly to have been involved in the search. He claims that NOTHING (presumably) Garrison provided regarding anything proved to have value. His credibility dropped to zero. That is, of course if this poster, was indeed who he implied he was. One would have to go back to Thread #1 to read his post. I believe he has made numerous posts here about this case and others. I attempted to make contact with him but it was not successful.

The other version I have heard is that a certain police officer, now retired, personally handled Garrison and somehow dropped the ball or didn't handle him skillfully. That implies that Garrison did have credibility.

The other factor we have to deal with is with Cox. Leaving aside Cox's credibility for a moment, is the very real effort that went into attempting to coax out of Cox the location of the remains. As I recall the officers (one now a major with the SPD) may have made up to two trips to visit with Cox in Texas but he wouldn't budge off his non-denial denial. What we are left to ponder are two letters to the N/L and a taped interview on KY3 with Cox (which I have not viewed) which strongly imply he was the best suspect they had. So far as I know, Cox has been stated to be the number #1 suspect in the case. His history is all too sordid to repeat here again but there is no good reason to summarily discount him since he "beat the rap" in Florida and walked off death row and alleged to have had had contact with Ted Bundy, the master serial murderer on death row, who, if memory serves me correctly, gave advice to the effect never to allow the bodies to be found. And when Cox was finally brought to justice he had a "kill kit" in his vehicle which implies he had evil intentions. We may never know what he has done unless at some point he decides to come clean. There is no indication he will do that.

So we are left with Cox and Garrison; known predators, and we have a news report from 1995 which clearly states this was a case of sexual assault and not drug related. In view of what we believe we know to be the likely circumstances of the exit out of town, we can probably extrapolate that there was a connection with Rogersville and meth has been brought up time and time again although not proven, and even discounted, by the news article, which as I said, leaves no wiggle room.

Having said all of this, it does make eminent good sense that the abductions were carried out to prevent Suzie's testimony which may have brought bigger fish into the case. Whoever they may have been would have had ample motive to prevent her testimony. If, as someone believe, this was because of a drug connection then the news article or the information provided to the news media was fabricated in order to throw off the perpetrators. That cannot be ruled out. Since none of us, to my knowledge, has seen the actual police file, we don't know where the truth lies.

If a gun were held to my head to come up with one correct answer, I would say that Cox and Garrison are somehow connected and this was indeed sexual assault which comports with the news article. That being the case, there is no police conspiracy to cover up the truth. They just can't bring the case to trial not having the physical evidence to get a conviction. Since the prosecutors in this area have been burned badly by two very high profile cases we can assume they are exercising extreme caution having only one bite at the apple.

I have one final point which I have raised previously. Where is it written that we must somehow ASSUME that either Suzie or Sherrill was or were the intended targets? Why is the assumption written in granite that Stacy was not the intended target? Certainly that does not rule out the sexual assault motive. We know very little of Stacy when all is said and done.

mr.electric
02-08-2010, 06:25 PM
What IF it was NOT RCC OR Garrison, but a close Neighbor that was WATCHING ? HHMMM

wfgodot
02-08-2010, 06:29 PM
What IF it was NOT RCC OR Garrison, but a close Neighbor that was WATCHING ? HHMMM

Any particular close neighbor in mind, mr. electric?

Indianagirl
02-08-2010, 06:48 PM
This article states many were interviewed in the grave robbing case.

"We interviewed a ton of people in that case. She was one of them," Glenn said.
Streeter's statement was insignificant in the vandalism case, and it "has nothing to do with her missing now," Glenn said.
The Kansas City Star
July 2, 1992

This leads me to believe that the others interviewed would have been targeted as well, if the grave robbing matter is what motivated this crime. We don't know who the other individuals interviewed were but I would assume if they had been murdered or disappeared LE would have been able to make the connection.

Missouri Mule, LE stated they didn't believe Stacy was the target because she wasn't suppose to be at Delmar that night. Those were last minute plans. Of course anything is possible in this case, but the chances of Stacy being the target are pretty low. In my opinion, LE hasn't even settled on who the target was. They have just speculated like the rest of us.

Police speculate sexual assault may have been the motive, with Levitt the intended victim.
Jefferson City News-Tribune (MO)
June 9, 2002

Also, I wanted to add, as of 2002 it seems the suspect list had perhaps changed some.....However, the media reports are conflicting.

"There are no suspects, but a half-dozen individuals remain under suspicion."
Columbia Daily Tribune (MO)
June 9, 2002

"Over the years investigators have whittled the list of potential suspects to about 10 names, which they declined to reveal."
Kansas City Star, The (MO)
June 7, 2002