West Memphis 3

[messiecake]

Im ,after LP and I bantering about this in another thread,starting this to discuss the WM3 case

I ,after alot of research,belive this is one of the biggest miscarriages of justice (and Im usually very Pro LE/Prosuction ) but am open to and interested in hearing opposing views on this case.

This controversial case has become quite a "hot" topic as the 3 accused are down to their final appeals as well as alot of celebrities drawing attention to the case, a fictional WM3 movie due out this summer as well as a 3rd installment of the HBO produced "Paradise Lost" documentry series about the WM3.


I belive that even if you doubt their innocence there is just too much evidence to ignore and this case MUST be reopened,reexamined and the "boys" freed.

[LP Moderator]

For anyone who hasn't seen Paradise Lost I or II, I recommend trying to find them. Ebay is a good place to look. They are documentaries about this case and contain the real players. One of the murdered boys, whose name I believe was Christopher Byers, has a very suspicious father, and at first I was pretty sure they were going to find he might have been involved in some way. However, it was determined that it would have been almost impossible for one person to have killed all three boys. There was also a suspicious man at a restaurant, I believe it was the "Bojangles" restaurant.

Its been a LONG time since I discussed this case, so my memory is going to need to be seriously refreshed. However, I do remember reading Damien's psychiatric records and after watching everything I could about the case, reading about three dozen websites and at least one paperback book, I think the three are guilty.

[LP Moderator]

Good link for info:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/memphis/index_1.html

[messiecake]

Yes Steven Byers (Christopher Byers,one of the victims' Step-Father) is one VERY strange man and one of the biggest reasons that got me off the fence and onto the "Theyre innocent" side.

The bite marks on Christophers body do not match Jessie,Damian or Jason (the WM3).
After this information was released Steven Byers had all of his teeth removed(and although this was confirmed by a Dentist Mr.Byers' continues to tell different accounts of why he has no teeth).
Although this by far not the only reason Steven Myers is strange and not the only incident in/around this case that got me looking at it differently .



Paradise Lost 1 & 2 are /should be at most Blockbusters as well.
I also reconmend reading the pro-inocence book "Devil's Knot" as well as the Pro-guilty "Blood of Innocents"



Although it contains a wealth of information the WM3.org site is quite biased and Im not aware of any "guilty" Wm3 sites.............if anyone knows of any-let me know!
Id like it ,if you could LP ,to refresh yourself on the case as Im interested in discussing this with you.{EDIT: Just caught the link LP,thanks!}



LP-where did you read Damien's psych. records? Id be quite interested in that!!

[LP Moderator]

Here's what I found at the link about the "bite mark."

Similarly, the bite mark issue raised in one of the films was dealt with badly, both in the film and in this book. If there truly was an issue in which a bite mark could have exonerated the defendants, an exhumation could have been ordered to bring up the body and provide both sides with means for careful examination. As it stands, it appears to have been merely a side issue raised by a man with no training in forensic pathology and it was quickly dispensed with in the courtroom.



As for the medical records - damn good question. We had a heavy duty discussion going on in another forum and I can't find it. Someone actually copied them and posted them after a court order forced them to turn them over. I'll keep looking though!

[messiecake]

Here's what I found at the link about the "bite mark."

Similarly, the bite mark issue raised in one of the films was dealt with badly, both in the film and in this book. If there truly was an issue in which a bite mark could have exonerated the defendants, an exhumation could have been ordered to bring up the body and provide both sides with means for careful examination. As it stands, it appears to have been merely a side issue raised by a man with no training in forensic pathology and it was quickly dispensed with in the courtroom.



As for the medical records - damn good question. We had a heavy duty discussion going on in another forum and I can't find it. Someone actually copied them and posted them after a court order forced them to turn them over. I'll keep looking though!



As far as I know I have been told the method used r/e the bite marks is one commonly used in court proceedings and although not ideal as yes the actual bite marks were not tested(just an impression) it is still being upheld by the WM3 defense (to my knowledge).


Please if you do come across the records-link them! Id love to take a peek!


Also the WM3 site has a great detailing of the all evidence for/against.
I know you're firmly "against" but as for study in regards to the case its informative.

[LP Moderator]

As far as I know I have been told the method used r/e the bite marks is one commonly used in court proceedings and although not ideal as yes the actual bite marks were not tested(just an impression) it is still being upheld by the WM3 defense (to my knowledge).


Please if you do come across the records-link them! Id love to take a peek!


Also the WM3 site has a great detailing of the all evidence for/against.
I know you're firmly "against" but as for study in regards to the case its informative.


Well I believe something may have come to light that made this point either moot or close to it. If I have any free time, I'll search again for those records. It was a long while ago and I'm pretty busy these days with Peterson!!

[babylove]

I also followed the HBO Paradise Lost documentaries. Chris Byers' dad was a WHACK job thats for sure. That whole case has me mystified... I am leaing twoard innocent after the documentaries were released, but I cannot understand how something like bite marks that could exhonerate the WM3 would not be reintroduced into court. Thanks for that link, I have been wanting to get up to speed on this and haven't been to the WM3 site in a long time.

[Tricia]

One night, about 2 years ago, I came across someone who had a forum about the West Memphis 3.

This forum looked as though it was very pro Damien and such.

I e-mailed the owner of the forum to ask her opinion of this case.

Basically she said that HBO paid Bryers father a lot of money. The stranger he acted the more money he received.

She also said that Damien is much stranger than anyone realizes. She said she knew him personally.

This was all surprising to me since the forum was so pro West Memphis 3.

I am reading the big book about it now. It does paint Damien in a much different light but the author comes to the conclusion that they are innocent.

I would be glad to pass the book along as soon as I am done.

Thanks for starting this thread. This case has always interested me.

Tricia

[blueclouds]

I just ordered Devils Knot. This is really intruiging me. How sad if these poor boys are innocent... terribly sad for all.

[Tricia]

I just ordered Devils Knot. This is really intruiging me. How sad if these poor boys are innocent... terribly sad for all.

That's it. That's the book I have started to read. Trouble is I can't find it. That's why I couldn't remember the name. Must be under a bed.

Damien is a strange egg no doubt. However the evidence, what I have read about so far, is very weak. Extremely weak.

At the very least I hope they take Damien off of death row. Can't undo that one if the state iswrong.

[messiecake]

Ok,after alot of searching I found Damien's records(they are not prison psych. records but records taken during a brief stay he had at a Charter Clinic way before the murders at Robin Hood Hills).

Interesting reading(although I knew Damien had problems prior to this) but it still doesn't change how I feel about the WM3's guilt.

If anyone is interested I can post the links (they are in a thread about the WM3 on another message board that deals with criminal cases)

[messiecake]

Here is the link for the WM3 online petition if anyone is interested:


http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?WM32002

[deputylinda]

i am not familiar with this case, but now really want to read this book...it sounds most intriguing.

[blueclouds]

Ok I'm a 3rd way through my book (Devils Knot) and I cannot say with 100% that these kids are innocent. What I do think is there is credible evidence against Byers definitely... but I wouldn't pass up Damien as a DEFINITE suspect as well. I think the other two boys are innocent... This author has not done them justice IMO at all. She is too strong with swaying her readers. Yet when she starts writing, she promised a unbiased version. Disappointed in that. She "skims" over very lightly on prosecutors evidence and STRONGLY DETAILS the potential of innocence. One cannot deny that there IS evidence pointing to Damien to a small degree and the things he said to the victims families during the trial, OMG. Also, while I have not come across it in the book, I have heard that there was a bloody sneaker from Jason or Damien that the prosecutors had in their possession and when they released it to the defense, it was "lost". Can anyone clarify if that is evidence... as one of the victims mother is saying that.

I am not convinced yet.

[messiecake]

Ok I'm a 3rd way through my book (Devils Knot) and I cannot say with 100% that these kids are innocent. What I do think is there is credible evidence against Byers definitely... but I wouldn't pass up Damien as a DEFINITE suspect as well. I think the other two boys are innocent... This author has not done them justice IMO at all. She is too strong with swaying her readers. Yet when she starts writing, she promised a unbiased version. Disappointed in that. She "skims" over very lightly on prosecutors evidence and STRONGLY DETAILS the potential of innocence. One cannot deny that there IS evidence pointing to Damien to a small degree and the things he said to the victims families during the trial, OMG. Also, while I have not come across it in the book, I have heard that there was a bloody sneaker from Jason or Damien that the prosecutors had in their possession and when they released it to the defense, it was "lost". Can anyone clarify if that is evidence... as one of the victims mother is saying that.

I am not convinced yet.


B.C,
Although Im a WM3 supporter I agree that Devil's Knot isnt the most unbiased book in the world(the author clearly belives theyre innocent and I feel she represents everything in that light).I liked the book (II also reconmend reading the "theyre guilty"book "Blood of Innocents" for the flipside) but wish there were a book that laid out the pros/cons of both sides and let the reader make up their mind.
To my knowledge the "lost sneaker" was a further distortion from the Pros(to talk about the evidence both sides claim the other side lost,didnt test,tested but lost results etc would take up a thread of its own and with everything that wasnt lost and is still available-being retested or in some cases tested for the first time,its moot until the new results are in).

The WM3.org site has a link to a WM3 board that has some great threads about evidence questions.The board is an interesting place because it has pro-innocents,pro-guilties,fence sitters ,people who were pro-innocent and are now pro-guilties etc so you get a much bigger view on the case then one (myself included)would imagine.Check it out if you have any questions (theres also links on WM3.org to evidence listings etc)

[blueclouds]

thanks messie, I will check it out further. I haven't been on the boards at the wm3 site. I appreciate places that accept everyone including "fence sitters... etc".

Is there anyother book you recommend or is available regarding this? Where could I find the two documentaries as well? TY
Carey

[messiecake]

thanks messie, I will check it out further. I haven't been on the boards at the wm3 site. I appreciate places that accept everyone including "fence sitters... etc".

Is there anyother book you recommend or is available regarding this? Where could I find the two documentaries as well? TY
Carey

Carey,

The first doc. is only on VHS and out of print.I know however that its available for rent at most Blockbusters and used copies are on sale at eBay,Amazon etc(it is going to be re-released on dvd soon though!)
Doc. #II is on DVD and avail. at Amazon (used copies are as low as $13)

The other book avail. is "Blood of Innocents" which is a "typical" true crime book (when you see it you'll know what I mean! Black,white & red cover,small paperback,"rush job" quailty)its pro-"guilty" but I still recon. reading it .

[blueclouds]

Could this be at all related to the WM3? Very interesting. Further investigation showed similar MO.

hummm something to ponder.
http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/news/3699081/detail.html

[LillyRush]

I remember watching the HBO documentary on this case.
I think I also read a little more about it in the court tv crime library at one time.
The Byers stepfather is wierd, as was mentioned. Didn't he have something like a brain tumor? Or maybe it was a metal plate in his head? lol I can't remember which but I know there was something about medical problems literally involving his brain.

The more I've read about this case, the more I think they were innocent. I'm not exactly sure who did it but there were some other suspects. I've never heard of the suspicious man at Bojangles, but that could probably be said of any number of people at the place. lol

Damien is a little strange and did obviously have some issues, but it seemed like they were exaggerating some things. I mean the focus on him listening to Metallica and I believe they even had Metallica playing in the background at some points during the documentary. I just thought that was kind of ridiculous and archaic. It reminded of when they used to blame music like that for making kids commit suicide, among other things. A lot of people listen to music like that and they are not satanists or going around killing people. :innocent:

Speaking of the satanism part, I remember finding that one detective to be extremely odd with the way he was on some mission to stamp out satanism in the town. I don't remember his name because it's been a little while since I read about this. But he was just way too over-zealous about the whole thing for me and seemed to be making it out to be more of a problem in the town than it was, which made me wonder whether he personally was involved in satanism and trying to deflect attention away from himself by being such an advocate 'against' it.

[messiecake]

The below link is to a book written by the D.A's self proclaimed "cult expert".
Not only does he belive there were satanists running loose in West Memphis but also that the C.I.A is involved in ritual child abuse and brainwashing people into becoming spies!


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0882821962/qid=1094420174/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-7664098-8123950?v=glance&s=books



:doh:



I think I saw a similar story in the Weekly World News once!!!!!!!!!!


AND this man was a "star witness" for the Pro's???????

[great_tezi]

Devil's Knot was one of the books that I read about this case. It convinced me that the West Memphis Police really didn't investigate Mark Byers. And the thing that really convinced me further of his involvement was his wife's death. Things just didn't add up there either. When I have the time, I am going to try to reread the book, I have it around here somewhere.

Great thread Messiecake, thanks for starting it!

[LillyRush]

The below link is to a book written by the D.A's self proclaimed "cult expert".
Not only does he belive there were satanists running loose in West Memphis but also that the C.I.A is involved in ritual child abuse and brainwashing people into becoming spies!


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0882821962/qid=1094420174/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-7664098-8123950?v=glance&s=books



:doh:



I think I saw a similar story in the Weekly World News once!!!!!!!!!!


AND this man was a "star witness" for the Pro's???????
Yep, that's the guy!
He is definitely a nut. Sounds like a paranoid schizo or something.
Thanks for the link.

[missacorah]

Hi, had to bump this case up having only recently found out about it. I have just ordered the 'Innocents' book from Ebay and the documentary and intend to 'get down off the fence' and form my opinion when I have looked through them both.

The thing I can't understand is how could one person keep all three boys there against their will? Surely no matter what they said, once they had seen what had been done to one of them the others or at least one of them would have been able to scarper.

At the moment, although I don't have the facts to support me until my Ebay goodies arrive my instinct is swaying me towards the fact that the three are indeed guilty. I'm sorry but Damien was a complete weirdo. And Jessie came up with alot of stuff also which is rather strange to admit to. I admit the Byers man does sound very strange especially bearing in mind the removal of teeth incident. I know he was a big fan of corporal punishment. Maybe the bite marks were indeed made by him ( I know biting is not classed as corporal punishment but maybe it was done as some sort of weird punishment) but if they were that doesnt make him the killer just a cruel (step) father.

As mentioned, I only just found out about this heartbreaking case and would be interested to hear all your views about suspects, convictions etc! Thanks.

[Jeana (DP)]

Hi, had to bump this case up having only recently found out about it. I have just ordered the 'Innocents' book from Ebay and the documentary and intend to 'get down off the fence' and form my opinion when I have looked through them both.

The thing I can't understand is how could one person keep all three boys there against their will? Surely no matter what they said, once they had seen what had been done to one of them the others or at least one of them would have been able to scarper.

At the moment, although I don't have the facts to support me until my Ebay goodies arrive my instinct is swaying me towards the fact that the three are indeed guilty. I'm sorry but Damien was a complete weirdo. And Jessie came up with alot of stuff also which is rather strange to admit to. I admit the Byers man does sound very strange especially bearing in mind the removal of teeth incident. I know he was a big fan of corporal punishment. Maybe the bite marks were indeed made by him ( I know biting is not classed as corporal punishment but maybe it was done as some sort of weird punishment) but if they were that doesnt make him the killer just a cruel (step) father.

As mentioned, I only just found out about this heartbreaking case and would be interested to hear all your views about suspects, convictions etc! Thanks.


Its been a while since I studied the case, but I'll be happy to try and remember what I can. I've got the book and I think one of the documentaries, so I may need to refresh my memory, but I believe they're guilty too. A while ago, I found Damien's psychological records on the internet and they were pretty interesting. The dude's a wack job for sure. I have nothing against heavy metal music (rather like it actually) and nothing against "black" clothing and the like. I don't think it helped their cause at all, but I don't think it got them convicted either.

Welcome!!

[missacorah]

Thanks - would be interested to hear what you remember. This case has really stuck in my head - one of the little boys looks very similar to my own son. It's a really sickening case.

[strach304]

I had watched the movie on tv some years ago because my youngest daughter was interested in the case, this was the second movie I believe and she had already seen the first which I never have but she felt Chris Byers father was a more likely suspect because of the teeth and knife. I've read that he was paid more to act crazy or something to that affect so without knowing many details of the case I have always come back to LE and the jury because they know what the evidence is. It seems from all accounts the Byers man would be hard to overlook and therefore I thought LE probably was able to rule him out.

I recently read what the crime library has on this case and the events of what happened on the day that Chris disappeared are eerily familar to the two little girls in Illinois that were killed by the one girls father. The marks on Chris Byers buttocks are clearly from the belt his father hit him with that afternoon so after being whipped like that he took off again? Seems more plausible someone with a vehicle and an accomplice moved these boys to where they were found. The mother of Chris Byers later committed suicide. There was evidence of healed injuries on Chris Byers but I don't know any specifics of those. I think it's possible the other two were killed because they saw what happened to Chris and there is a brother I didn't know about that searched with chris byers father, another possibility of an accomplice.

I'm not saying those three aren't guilty but I do have doubts and I'd like to see it reinvestigated, possibly there is better forensics available now. It bothers me that a crime scene was never found. I think it's possible it was staged to look like a sex crime or cult ritual. There was also a report of a black man in Bojangles with blood on him in the area the boys were found in.
Coincidentally there was hair consistent with an afro american found on Chris Byers which may be transference or something I don't know but there it is. None of the vehicles searched turned up anything forensically but the man in Bojangles was never found so his vehicle and the possibility of an accomplice with him also could exist. I think it could be a rage killing and it sounds like the father of Chris Byers would've been in a rage in much the same way as the father in Illinois same motive, sad but sick.

[mic730]

I have seen the HBO documentaries and read a lot about the case online a couple years ago. I will also get a copy of the book as I would like to know more.
I am conflicted on this case. I do hope Damien is removed from death row.
Very interesting that HBO paid that man to act so crazy.

[Jeana (DP)]

I heard that Chris Byer's mother, Melissa was it??, died from drug abuse, but it was suspicious. Can you help me find info about the suicide???

[Jeana (DP)]

I have seen the HBO documentaries and read a lot about the case online a couple years ago. I will also get a copy of the book as I would like to know more.
I am conflicted on this case. I do hope Damien is removed from death row.
Very interesting that HBO paid that man to act so crazy.


He's guilty, why remove him from death row????? He needs to have his sentence carried out.

[strach304]

I heard that Chris Byer's mother, Melissa was it??, died from drug abuse, but it was suspicious. Can you help me find info about the suicide???

Sorry Jeana I don't have a link for this part because it was covered in "Paradise Lost 2" but it was a prescription drug overdose but HBO went out of their way imo to make the father of Chris Byers look guilty and in bringing up the suicide of Chris' mother I got the impression they wanted you to think that was the reason. There are two possible explanations though, on the other side of the coin she simply may not have been able to cope with the death of her child as well as other considerations that could have contributed.

The crime library on ctv has a story on this case that I had never read until recently and I thought I had read every case on there :crazy:
Jeana, if you didn't know about the mom you may not know that Chris Byers father had all of his teeth pulled shortly after the murders. This was in the HBO show as well. The reason he gave was that it was because of the medicine he took and named dilatin at that time, which I myself took many years ago for epilepsy. It doesn't rot your teeth it makes your gums thick and in fact had to have mine shaved by an orthodonic surgeon. The bite marks on Chris were originally thought to be belt buckle marks. The story at ctv gives you the impression that there wasn't sufficient evidence against the 3 for a conviction much less a death verdict. I wanna go research the story just haven't gotten around to it. The other drug reported in the ctv story is carmazaphine (sp) which is the generic of tegretol which I also took for seizures, which both Chris and his father were taking and was found in what was termed non therapeutic levels in the toxicology tests of Chris. I have never seen it stated what their medical conditions were. Tegretol is a very bad drug and has several uses but aside from that what I do know that it's very potent and a small dose will incapacitate you and with an 8 year old could easily kill. Chris' father said he had not had his medicine that day. The father was said to have a bad temper and had a criminal record for assault on a neighbors child but on that point I'm not positive it's true because I can't remember the source although it could've come out in the 2nd hbo documentary.

I personally haven't decided on guilt of anyone since I don't have all the facts but I didn't know until I read the ctv story that Chris had been whipped with a belt and then took off again while his father took his brother to the courthouse and when his father returned and found that out he went looking for him. I also read somewhere else maybe here that a tennis shoe belonging to Damien or Jason had blood on it, so I have no details on that either as of yet. Was the blood from any of the three victims? I don't know but if so that imo is strong evidence of guilt. I've never been able to jump on the innocent bandwagon for these three simply because I don't know all the evidence at trial but the jury sure did and to me that speaks volumes but I do wanna get around to finding out more about this case.

[mic730]

He's guilty, why remove him from death row????? He needs to have his sentence carried out.


I am not convinced of his guilt Jeana. :)

[chiefs_fan_4life]

Misskelley's trial was held in the town I live in. I know most of the jurors who sentenced him as well. I am about 1 hr. 45 min. from West Memphis and we pass Robin Hood Hills everytime we go to Memphis. I just feel so strange and sad when we pass through there. I have mostly kept up with the case from the beginning and still my mind changes about their guilt/innocence. I think that Byers guy was a piss poor step dad and he creeps me out. I don't believe his wife (Melissa) committed suicide. I think she accidentally OD'd or Byers had a hand in it.

[amandab]

Hey all,

I just watched "Paradise Lost: Revalations" (the 2nd of the HBO documentaries) last night, and I'm conflicted.

Does anyone know what everyone's alibis were at the time of the boys deaths? Specifically, Damien and Jessie, as well as Mark and Melissa Byers?

Does anyone know if Mark Byers is still in prison (for selling prescription drugs to an undercover cop, I believe)?

Has Melissa's cause of death ever been determined?

Have Mark or Melissa Byers' teeth ever been examined against the bite mark?

Thanks gang......

[amandab]

One other thing........

Does anyone remember the scene in PL2 where Mark Byers is getting the polygraph (while under the influence of a host of drugs that calm him), and the guy givingthe test asked him if he'd had any brushes with the law?

Byers said he got a DUI after his wife "was murdered".

Murdered?? I thought Byers said she died in her sleep b/c of a drug problem/overdose/something along those lines.

Murdered? He claimed to have nothing to do with her death.

Just an innocent slip of the tongue, or maybe a shred of truth out of Byers finally?

[amandab]

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/arknews080197.htm

This is an interesting article regarding Melissa's death......

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey all,

I just watched "Paradise Lost: Revalations" (the 2nd of the HBO documentaries) last night, and I'm conflicted.

Does anyone know what everyone's alibis were at the time of the boys deaths? Specifically, Damien and Jessie, as well as Mark and Melissa Byers?

Does anyone know if Mark Byers is still in prison (for selling prescription drugs to an undercover cop, I believe)?

Has Melissa's cause of death ever been determined?

Have Mark or Melissa Byers' teeth ever been examined against the bite mark?

Thanks gang......


Don't know all the answers, but No, the cause of death has never been determined. Mark had dentures made not long after all this, which is why he's caught the interest of so many people (that among many other things).

[Goody]

Its been a while since I studied the case, but I'll be happy to try and remember what I can. I've got the book and I think one of the documentaries, so I may need to refresh my memory, but I believe they're guilty too. A while ago, I found Damien's psychological records on the internet and they were pretty interesting. The dude's a wack job for sure. I have nothing against heavy metal music (rather like it actually) and nothing against "black" clothing and the like. I don't think it helped their cause at all, but I don't think it got them convicted either.

Welcome!!
Will this help? http://www.wm3.org/live/evidence/index.php

[Goody]

As I recall the police interviewed scads of kids from the area and there were lots and lots of rumors going around with these boys doing some bragging about their part in the crime. I don't think the stepfather did anything. This area strikes me as a low income area. A lot of dysfunction in the both the victims' and the perps' homes.

It seems to me I read the mother's autopsy somewhere and she had been in a deep,deep depression following the death of her child, was mixing alcohol and drugs, and just didn't wake up one day. I think it was an accidental death. The stepfather is just an easy patsy because he isn't a clean cut joe, but, hey, I have known some rowdy bikers in my time (no..I am not a biker chick) who were better parents than some of the suits I worked with. So just because he might seem like a lowlife (if that is your perception of him) doesn't mean he cut up these boys and mutilated them like that.

This case was not about child abuse. At least not abuse by a parent figure. It was about some very troubled kids who fell into an evil abyss (their version devil worship) and did the unthinkable. It is similar to the case back east where the little red headed kid killed his 4 year old neighbor one day in the park. And seems like there was another where the little kid knocked on the door and the teenager home alone killed him.

Seems like all of theses cases occurred around the same time. Back then we were filling our kids heads full of dark, gory horror films...Freddy Krueger, Chainsaw Massacre, Jason (Jamie Curtis' ride to fame). Dungeons and Dragons was a big thing and another game called Magic. And in the south there was lots of interest in satanism. Even where I live, which is not that far from West Memphis (a couple of hundred miles, I think), and we had trouble with kids going out into the woods and drawing pentagrams and sacrificing small animals. One house I lived in I found evidence of strange rituals in the attic. Couldn't wait to move out of that one. Point is, this is a haunting case because of the nature of the crime and who did it, but I really believe the right people were convicted.

[Amy Noel]

I've been following this story from the beginning and ofcourse I listened to the media reports and thought they were guilty at first, like everyone else. But then I saw HBO's "Paradise Lost" and started to question alot of things in the case. And by the time "Paradise Lost 2" came out I was pretty much convinced that these boys were innocent. I've read everything I can get my hands on...off the internet and on. I've read "Devil's knot", which is a very informative read about the case. I just recently read "Almost Home" written by Damien Echols himself. It's not much about the case but more about Damien, the boy...and now the man...the man he has become from behind bars. It is a wonderful read... it will make you think...make you cry...and believe it or not at times even laugh. Anyone who is really interested in this miscarriage of justice should read this book... both books... and watch the movies as well. And don't forget June 3rd marks the 13th anniversary that the WM3 were arrested for the murders... so light a candle, pray, or wear your "free the WM3" gear if you have any....and lets not forget the three little boys who were murdered in this case.. May 6th was 13 years since they were taken from this world... they were beautiful children and my heart goes out to their families... and the hope that one day there will be "true" justice in this case of 6 victims!

[Jeana (DP)]

I've been following this story from the beginning and ofcourse I listened to the media reports and thought they were guilty at first, like everyone else. But then I saw HBO's "Paradise Lost" and started to question alot of things in the case. And by the time "Paradise Lost 2" came out I was pretty much convinced that these boys were innocent. I've read everything I can get my hands on...off the internet and on. I've read "Devil's knot", which is a very informative read about the case. I just recently read "Almost Home" written by Damien Echols himself. It's not much about the case but more about Damien, the boy...and now the man...the man he has become from behind bars. It is a wonderful read... it will make you think...make you cry...and believe it or not at times even laugh. Anyone who is really interested in this miscarriage of justice should read this book... both books... and watch the movies as well. And don't forget June 3rd marks the 13th anniversary that the WM3 were arrested for the murders... so light a candle, pray, or wear your "free the WM3" gear if you have any....and lets not forget the three little boys who were murdered in this case.. May 6th was 13 years since they were taken from this world... they were beautiful children and my heart goes out to their families... and the hope that one day there will be "true" justice in this case of 6 victims!


Thanks for your post Amy. I've read and seen it all too and think the complete opposite. I believe they're guilty.

[Masterj]

It is interesting when people come to such drastically different conclusions. I hate and have a problem accepting that in most of these tragic cases, we will never really know the full truth. It breaks my heart.

[Amy Noel]

Its been a while since I studied the case, but I'll be happy to try and remember what I can. I've got the book and I think one of the documentaries, so I may need to refresh my memory, but I believe they're guilty too. A while ago, I found Damien's psychological records on the internet and they were pretty interesting. The dude's a wack job for sure. I have nothing against heavy metal music (rather like it actually) and nothing against "black" clothing and the like. I don't think it helped their cause at all, but I don't think it got them convicted either.

Welcome!!Thanks for your post Amy. I've read and seen it all too and think the complete opposite. I believe they're guilty.
Well I see here that you may not be as informed on this case as you may believe you are... If you only read one book, I'd be interested in knowing which book that was. And you really need to watch both PL & PL2 to really understand all the in's and out's of the case.... I would also like to ask you on what grounds you believe these boys are guilty... just because a judge and jury decided there guilt? These boys were already found guilty before the cases ever went to trial. The real question is where is the evidence linking these boys to the crime? If these three teenagers...one of who is mentally handicapped, committed this crime, and left not one scrap of evidence...DNA, blood, fingerprints, hair, fibers,ect. Then they have done something impossible in the eyes of modern forensic science... they are utterly "genius"!!!

[Charlie]

Just to set the record straight

The infamous bite marks was not found till after all three boys had been convicted for the murders. Jessies defence attorney Daniel Stidham has asked the WMPD before the trials whether they had composed any criminal profile on the case. The WMPD answered no. After the trial Daniel Stidham found they the WMPD had lied and indeed had recieved a criminal profile from the FBI.

"All efforts by Stidham to procure the services of a reputable and qualified Criminal Profiler before the trials were fruitless due to the lack of resources available. It was not until after the three young men had been convicted and sentenced that he was able to secure the services of Brent Turvey, who agreed to take the case pro-bono. Brent Turvey has a Master of Science degree and is a highly qualified and experienced Forensic Scientist and Criminal Profiler." - crime library

"Turvey’s Criminal Profile revealed many areas of physical evidence which were missed or misinterpreted by the Medical Examiner and Coroner on this case and overrules many of the assumptions made by police as to the nature of these murders." - crime library

"After examining the evidence available, Turvey revealed a number of evidentiary points which had not been noticed during earlier examinations. The most important of these was his opinion that the patterned injuries all over Steven Branch’s face were not the result of an attack with a serrated edge knife, as was originally believed, but were, in fact, bite marks. This opinion was confirmed by Dr Thomas David, a board certified forensic odontologist, who identified the marks as being human adult bite marks. After comparing these marks with bite impressions obtained from Jessie, Jason and Damien, Dr. David gave his expert opinion that they did not match. Bite marks are extremely useful in identifying the perpetrator of a crime as they can be as unique as a fingerprint. Further suction type bite marks were also found all over Christopher Byers’s inner thigh." - crime library

2. Melissa Byers did NOT commit suicide her death has been labled undetermined.
"Instead, he had the crime lab's vague conclusion that, "because of the lack of definitive anatomic or toxicological findings, the cause and manner of death are left undetermined." - http://www.corpus-delicti.com/arknews080197.htm

[Jeana (DP)]

Well I see here that you may not be as informed on this case as you may believe you are... If you only read one book, I'd be interested in knowing which book that was. And you really need to watch both PL & PL2 to really understand all the in's and out's of the case.... I would also like to ask you on what grounds you believe these boys are guilty... just because a judge and jury decided there guilt? These boys were already found guilty before the cases ever went to trial. The real question is where is the evidence linking these boys to the crime? If these three teenagers...one of who is mentally handicapped, committed this crime, and left not one scrap of evidence...DNA, blood, fingerprints, hair, fibers,ect. Then they have done something impossible in the eyes of modern forensic science... they are utterly "genius"!!!


Darlin, I'm not sure where you got the impression I only read one book. I've seen and read everything I could get my hands on with regard to this case, including Damien's mental health records. Its been some time, but I don't remember hearing or seeing anything that lead me to believe they are anything but guilty.

[Amy Noel]

Darlin, I'm not sure where you got the impression I only read one book. I've seen and read everything I could get my hands on with regard to this case, including Damien's mental health records. Its been some time, but I don't remember hearing or seeing anything that lead me to believe they are anything but guilty.
Where did you read Damien's Mental health records from? I don't believe they were ever released for public record, I know that excerpts were read from the full report in court, and therefore in the transcripts. But I'd be very interested to know how you got your hands on his records or if they were on the internet, what site that was?

[Amy Noel]

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no matter what you believe guilt or innocence, you have to ask yourself this question ,where is the evidence linking these boys to the crime? If these three teenagers...one of whom is mentally handicapped , committed this crime, and left not one scrap of evidence... DNA, blood, fingerprints, hair, fibers,ect. Then they have done something impossible in the eyes of modern forensic science... they are utterly "genius"!!!

[Labrat]

Here's a blog with links to a lot of info-
I read Damien's psych reports also, but it was a long time ago. It would most likely have found them by following links from this site-

http://crime-spree.blogspot.com/2005/04/why-i-think-west-memphis-3-are-guilty.html

I have to say I believe it is more likely than not that the 3 are guilty.


Here's a bunch of stuff, I believe from the trial.- http://callahan.8k.com/

Interesting-Damien failed the polygraph- I didn't know that.

It's probably better to read the actual documents than rely on books and documentaries. I don't believe the writers/filmakers are ever truly objective.

[Jeana (DP)]

Where did you read Damien's Mental health records from? I don't believe they were ever released for public record, I know that excerpts were read from the full report in court, and therefore in the transcripts. But I'd be very interested to know how you got your hands on his records or if they were on the internet, what site that was?


Its been too long ago for me to remember the link, but they were on the net. Very telling. Very frightening. This boy was in a deep deep dark place.

[Charlie]

The fact still remains they were convicted of murder without suffcient evidence - reasonable doubt was cast everywhere in that court room. Even if they are guilty they deserve another trial.

[Jeana (DP)]

The fact still remains they were convicted of murder without suffcient evidence - reasonable doubt was cast everywhere in that court room. Even if they are guilty they deserve another trial.


Reasonable doubt is in the eye of the tryer of fact -- in this case the jury. We've heard of cases where a conviction was had based solely on circumstantial evidence. We've heard of cases where the body of the victim hadn't even be located. Of course, all are entitled to their opinions, but the only ones that matter in this case belong to the jury and the appeals courts. I agree with them.

[Amy Noel]

Reasonable doubt is in the eye of the tryer of fact -- in this case the jury. We've heard of cases where a conviction was had based solely on circumstantial evidence. We've heard of cases where the body of the victim hadn't even be located. Of course, all are entitled to their opinions, but the only ones that matter in this case belong to the jury and the appeals courts. I agree with them.
I found this very interesting, informative, and fitting to this topic...
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Prison-Innocent-People19apr04.htm

[Jeana (DP)]

I found this very interesting, informative, and fitting to this topic...
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Prison-Innocent-People19apr04.htm


Interesting, but hardly applicable to the case we're discussing.

[Amy Noel]

Interesting, but hardly applicable to the case we're discussing.

Here is an excerpt.....
On the other hand, the study found that the leading causes of wrongful convictions for murder were false confessions and perjury by co- defendants, informants, police officers or forensic scientists.

A separate study considering 125 cases involving false confessions was published in the North Carolina Law Review last month and found that such confessions were most common among groups vulnerable to suggestion and intimidation.

"There are three groups of people most likely to confess," said Steven A. Drizin, a law professor at Northwestern, who conducted the study with Richard A. Leo, a professor of criminology at the University of California, Irvine. "They are the mentally retarded, the mentally ill and juveniles."

Professor Drizin, too, said that false confessions were most common in murder cases.

"Those are the cases where there is the greatest pressure to obtain confessions," he said, "and confessions are often the only way to solve those crimes."

Professor Drizin said that videotaping of police interrogations would cut down on false confessions.

[Jeana (DP)]

Here is an excerpt.....
On the other hand, the study found that the leading causes of wrongful convictions for murder were false confessions and perjury by co- defendants, informants, police officers or forensic scientists.

A separate study considering 125 cases involving false confessions was published in the North Carolina Law Review last month and found that such confessions were most common among groups vulnerable to suggestion and intimidation.

"There are three groups of people most likely to confess," said Steven A. Drizin, a law professor at Northwestern, who conducted the study with Richard A. Leo, a professor of criminology at the University of California, Irvine. "They are the mentally retarded, the mentally ill and juveniles."

Professor Drizin, too, said that false confessions were most common in murder cases.

"Those are the cases where there is the greatest pressure to obtain confessions," he said, "and confessions are often the only way to solve those crimes."

Professor Drizin said that videotaping of police interrogations would cut down on false confessions.


Thanks Amy, but the words didn't change once you copied that from the thread to here, and neither did my opinion. Yes, it happens. Did it happen in this case? No.

By the way, nice pic of Lenny!!

[Charlie]

Thanks Amy, but the words didn't change once you copied that from the thread to here, and neither did my opinion. Yes, it happens. Did it happen in this case? No.


How can u be 100% positive that Jessie's Misskelley's confession wasnt false? U need to be 100% to send someone to jail for life....i dont know how anyone could be 100% when they are big holes in his confession
1. time of death
2. nature of attack on the boys

Jeez his account doesnt even match up with the medical examiners.

[Details]

You don't need to be 100% - that's beyond any doubt - and I can't even say beyond any doubt, 100% sure that I'm here typing this message - could all be an elaborate dream...

The standard is beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Amy Noel]

You are right about only needed reasonable doubt to convict. But I still ask the question that no one wants to answer, so once again.......
Where is the evidence linking these boys to the crime? If these three teenagers...one of whom is mentally handicapped , committed this crime, and left not one scrap of evidence... DNA, blood, fingerprints, hair, fibers,ect. Then they have done something impossible in the eyes of modern forensic science... they are utterly "genius"!!!

[Charlie]

You don't need to be 100% - that's beyond any doubt - and I can't even say beyond any doubt, 100% sure that I'm here typing this message - could all be an elaborate dream...

The standard is beyond a reasonable doubt.
The whole idea of having reasonable doubt is that if there is one piece of the puzzle that doesn’t fit and hence casts doubt on the defenders perpetrating this crime then they shouldn’t be found guilty. I would say then u would need every part of the puzzle to fit in order to guarantee a conviction.
100% sure vs. reasonable doubt - same thing really.


Where is the evidence linking these boys to the crime? If these three teenagers...one of whom is mentally handicapped , committed this crime, and left not one scrap of evidence... DNA, blood, fingerprints, hair, fibers,ect. Then they have done something impossible in the eyes of modern forensic science... they are utterly "genius"!!!

would be nice is someone professing thier guilt would answer this one.

[Jeana (DP)]

How can u be 100% positive that Jessie's Misskelley's confession wasnt false? U need to be 100% to send someone to jail for life....i dont know how anyone could be 100% when they are big holes in his confession
1. time of death
2. nature of attack on the boys

Jeez his account doesnt even match up with the medical examiners.


You DO NOT have to be 100% certain. The Tryer of Fact needs to decide beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT. That juror's reasonable doubt -- not your's.

[Charlie]

You DO NOT have to be 100% certain. The Tryer of Fact needs to decide beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT. That juror's reasonable doubt -- not your's.

what i'm trying to illustrate Jeana is that if reasonable doubt was presented to the jury it means that the defence is trying to demonstrate to the jury that u cant be 100% certain that the defendant/s commited this crime as there is always going to be this doubt.

[Details]

what i'm trying to illustrate Jeana is that if reasonable doubt was presented to the jury it means that the defence is trying to demonstrate to the jury that u cant be 100% certain that the defendant/s commited this crime as there is always going to be this doubt.Always doubt - not always reasonable doubt.

A kid is in a room with a candy dish, alone. You come back in 15 minutes, the candy is gone. Kid claims a stranger opened the door, ate the candy, ran back out. Do you have any reasonable doubts that the kid ate the candy? No. Can you be 100% certain? No.

That's the difference between reasonable doubt, and any doubt.

[Amy Noel]

Always doubt - not always reasonable doubt.

A kid is in a room with a candy dish, alone. You come back in 15 minutes, the candy is gone. Kid claims a stranger opened the door, ate the candy, ran back out. Do you have any reasonable doubts that the kid ate the candy? No. Can you be 100% certain? No.

That's the difference between reasonable doubt, and any doubt.
Well, were not talking about kids and candy here. We are talking about 3 peoples lives.
I really don't care who thinks they are guilty, although I wish someone would list on what basis that they form this opinion ....... and not just because the " courts said so ", I mean on what evidence??? And yes sometimes in some cases circumstantial evidence is enough to convict without a "reasonable doubt", So okay lets stay with that for a moment...hmm... we have, lets see...Jesse's confession (we all know the controversy on this) ... Okay what else, Damien has a mental illness, ohhh! I work @ a mental hospital, and mental illness does not = killer! (LOL) Shoot half of the people who post here probably have a mental illness the other half just haven't been diagnosed yet! Ok we have a young girl @ a baseball game that over heard Damien "Yelling out" to the world that he killed these boys and he was planing on killing 2 more before he turned himself in...( I should'nt even need to comment on that one) Then we have a jail bird that Jason confessed to while in jail, on their second conversation ever! And this was allowed in court, but not the counselor from the jail, who could prove that he was lying ( you should know exactly what I'm talking about if you know this case) We have a knife found in the lake @ the trailer park where Jason lived, I shouldn't have to mention that it was a trailer park that lots of other people reside their also. The knife could not be matched with any certainty to the wounds. We have 3 fibers that couldn't be matched to any particular garment to the exclusion of any other. We have hmmm... The Hollingsworths' that claim they saw Domini & Damien on the service road... well that puts Damien in the area... hmmm but Domini, why she's not supposed to be there hmm... where's Jason? hmmm... where's Jesse? For that matter where's the blood? Where's the footprint's? Where's the fingerprint's? You mean they found no hair... oh but wait they did find hair...hmmm was it Damien's? NO! was it Jason's? NO!! was it Jesse's? No!!! Well by god whose was it you ask? Well it seems that it was negriod hair.... hmmm??? Wasn't there a report of a black man in a resturaunt (Bojangles) the night of the boys disappearance, I believe he had blood on him ( actually dripping off him) and covered in mud? But those wonderful, thorough WM police, they drove through the drive through & didn't even go in... oh but wait they came back the next day and got some of the blood... oh great... now we can have it tested, oh-no!!! They lost it... misplaced it.. its gone!!! Whew...those WM police there Grrrrrrrrrreat! Oh wait I forgot some of their best evidence... Damien and Jason were Satanist, yes ladies and gentlemen they were in a cult. They worshipped the devil, had orgies, and sacrifices!!! You know how we know all this well lets see... they wore black (no!) they listened to heavy metal music (no!) Oh and read books...horror books and strange religious books, non-christian!!! (nonono! Heaven forbid... lets burn'em @ the stake!) Ok ... Oh And yes Damien failed the polygraph, ohhh, but Jesse passed his ( even though they told him he failed it) so if you are going to bring up Damien's as evidence, even though we all know its not admissable in court then we must bring up Jesse's too! Because we must play fair here!
I just can't understand how any intelligent, caring, and informed person can think for a second that this case wasn't investigated half assed. I mean... come on really guys! They lost evidence, they didn't investigate anything, it was a botched job. They were under investigation for losing evidence in numerous drug cases, they were under pressure to solve this case... a big case... to get a conviction... they had a reputation to repair.... I want to say so much more I want to point out all the evidence and testimony that was not allowed in that the defense had.... how prejudicial the judge was... but I just do'nt have the time right now... I would be typing all night... but like I said if you "have read it and watched it all" as some of you have stated then you should already know all this!!! So how in god's name can you not atleast admit that these boys deserve another trial, atleast admit that... you know the investigation was fouled... you know the judge was onesided... deep down you know this was not justice !!!! If not for Damien, Jason, and Jesse... then for Christopher, Michael, and Stevie!!! All we all really want is JUSTICE!

[Amy Noel]

WM3 WORLDWIDE AWARENESS DAY (http://wm3.org/live/newsevents/newsitem.php?index=1&news_Id=109)
June 3, 2006

June 3, 2006 marks the 13th anniversary that Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley were arrested for murders they did not commit. It is also West Memphis Three Worldwide Awareness Day, the perfect opportunity for supporters to join together and let the world know the truth about their unjust convictions. All over the globe, people will stage concerts, screen Paradise Lost I & II and host benefits to raise money for the WM3's defense funds.

[Amy Noel]

This a letter that is posted on http://www.wm3.org website, I just thought I would share it with everyone here, who may not have seen it...

Dear Supporters of the WM3:

A friend and I were chatting this weekend when she brought up an important issue. With Awareness Day fast approaching, what is being planned for Arkansas? After all, this state needs to be everyone’s focal point. She proposed a brilliant idea, which I want to pass on to you.

I know many of you over the past decade or so have literally inundated the Governor’s office with letters. How many letters have been sent? Well, it could be anyone’s guess. I don’t believe anyone is keeping a record, and of course, the Governor’s office keeps an apparently endless supply of those rubber-stamped “form” letters everyone receives in response.

VIOLATION OF TOS - COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. SEE LINK FOR REST OF LETTER

[Jeana (DP)]

what i'm trying to illustrate Jeana is that if reasonable doubt was presented to the jury it means that the defence is trying to demonstrate to the jury that u cant be 100% certain that the defendant/s commited this crime as there is always going to be this doubt.


The defense's case is where the "reasonable doubt" is supposed to come from. Now, if you're trying to say these three should be freed on "pure innocence" claims alone, that's one thing. If you're trying to say they had ineffective counsel and should get a new trial, that's another. You may always have reasonable doubt and that's too bad. However, it wasn't your case to decide, so what you believe (and what I believe for that matter) isn't relevant.

[Charlie]

The defense's case is where the "reasonable doubt" is supposed to come from. Now, if you're trying to say these three should be freed on "pure innocence" claims alone, that's one thing. If you're trying to say they had ineffective counsel and should get a new trial, that's another. You may always have reasonable doubt and that's too bad. However, it wasn't your case to decide, so what you believe (and what I believe for that matter) isn't relevant.

I Dont believe they are innocent, i dont believe they are guilty either. I can't make a decision that grave with such little evidence. Jeana you seem very grounded in your belief on these boys guilt...what was it (evidence) that made your so sure?

[Becba]

The defense's case is where the "reasonable doubt" is supposed to come from. Now, if you're trying to say these three should be freed on "pure innocence" claims alone, that's one thing. If you're trying to say they had ineffective counsel and should get a new trial, that's another. You may always have reasonable doubt and that's too bad. However, it wasn't your case to decide, so what you believe (and what I believe for that matter) isn't relevant.
Enough issues about this case has been brought up to grant a new trial. It seems the courts don't want to take a chance of a seriously flawed case getting retried.
It may not be our case to decide but it is important if many of the public do not believe the right people are in jail. More important is the idea of having 3 innocent people in jail. And I am not one for wanting to grant retrails, but this case is screaming for one so that justice can be served. IMO with the new representation they would all be found not guilty.

[Jeana (DP)]

I Dont believe they are innocent, i dont believe they are guilty either. I can't make a decision that grave with such little evidence. Jeana you seem very grounded in your belief on these boys guilt...what was it (evidence) that made your so sure?


Well, like most people who followed the case, I read all of the articles, books, etc. and saw the documentaries. I also searched out all I could in the internet, including the websites supporting the accused. I guess for not being in the courtroom, I had about as much info as anyone else not in the courtroom. Of course, its been quite some time, but no information has come to light that made me change my opinion.

[Jeana (DP)]

Enough issues about this case has been brought up to grant a new trial. It seems the courts don't want to take a chance of a seriously flawed case getting retried.
It may not be our case to decide but it is important if many of the public do not believe the right people are in jail. More important is the idea of having 3 innocent people in jail. And I am not one for wanting to grant retrails, but this case is screaming for one so that justice can be served. IMO with the new representation they would all be found not guilty.

I disagree. They had their day in court and they've had their appeals. That's what they're entitled to. No more and no less than any other defendant in America. Clogging up our already slowly moving justice system with trial after trial because it didn't turn out the way some people wanted it to is not the way to go.

[Charlie]

Well, like most people who followed the case, I read all of the articles, books, etc. and saw the documentaries. I also searched out all I could in the internet, including the websites supporting the accused. I guess for not being in the courtroom, I had about as much info as anyone else not in the courtroom. Of course, its been quite some time, but no information has come to light that made me change my opinion.

Jeana, you didnt actually specifiy what evidence made you believe in thier guilt.

I disagree. They had their day in court and they've had their appeals. That's what they're entitled to. No more and no less than any other defendant in America. Clogging up our already slowly moving justice system with trial after trial because it didn't turn out the way some people wanted it to is not the way to go.

Jeana, what about the cases of death row inmates that were wrongfully accused and exonerated after DNA analysis...by your reasoning they should have died simply because the jury in their cases made their choice and therefore the jury is correct...

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, you didnt actually specifiy what evidence made you believe in thier guilt.



Jeana, what about the cases of death row inmates that were wrongfully accused and exonerated after DNA analysis...by your reasoning they should have died simply because the jury in their cases made their choice and therefore the jury is correct...


Charlie, as I said, its been a long time since this case was fresh in my mind. There's no way I can remember all of the evidence, so I'm sorry that I can't answer your question with more specificity.

If there is DNA evidence that can be tested, it should be done before the trial; or, if the inmate is awaiting trial and DNA evidence comes to light, the governor and the Supreme Court takes that into consideration before their execution. Otherwise, how would those you spoke of have been exonorated?

I'm 100% for the death penalty, and your not about to get me into a debate with you about it here, but we do have a thread going in the parking lot, if you'd like to join in.

[Charlie]

Charlie, as I said, its been a long time since this case was fresh in my mind. There's no way I can remember all of the evidence, so I'm sorry that I can't answer your question with more specificity.

If there is DNA evidence that can be tested, it should be done before the trial; or, if the inmate is awaiting trial and DNA evidence comes to light, the governor and the Supreme Court takes that into consideration before their execution. Otherwise, how would those you spoke of have been exonorated?

I'm 100% for the death penalty, and your not about to get me into a debate with you about it here, but we do have a thread going in the parking lot, if you'd like to join in.

C’mon Jeana stop dodging the bullet here, you stated yourself that you have real all the articles and books and saw the documentaries yet you can’t think of one piece of evidence in this case. For someone who professes such knowledge of the case you sure have a bad memory.

List of exonerate death row inmates
- Houston: over 100 inmates have been exonerated from death row since 1973 (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0412/p01s02-usju.html)

- Lousianna: 92 death-row inmates have been exonerated since the death penalty was reinstated in 1973. (http://www.truthinjustice.org/no92.htm)

- Illinois: The 13 men freed from Death Row since 1977 have been exonerated.
(http://www.truthinjustice.org/exonerated.htm)

shall i continue?

[Amy Noel]

C’mon Jeana stop dodging the bullet here, you stated yourself that you have real all the articles and books and saw the documentaries yet you can’t think of one piece of evidence in this case. For someone who professes such knowledge of the case you sure have a bad memory.

List of exonerate death row inmates
- Houston: over 100 inmates have been exonerated from death row since 1973 (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0412/p01s02-usju.html)

- Lousianna: 92 death-row inmates have been exonerated since the death penalty was reinstated in 1973. (http://www.truthinjustice.org/no92.htm)

- Illinois: The 13 men freed from Death Row since 1977 have been exonerated.
(http://www.truthinjustice.org/exonerated.htm)

shall i continue?

Thanks Charlie!!! Thats the question I would love to be answered....How can someone be so conviced that they are guilty... and post here about how guilty they are... and how they do not deserve a new trial... and on and on and on....but cannot list the reasons why, just convienently forget what it was about the case that convinced them of the guilt.... cannot even remember what evidence was presented in the case... I find it laughable!!!

If anyone was to ask me why I think they are innocent... I could answer that question... I could list the reasons, based on the evidence, the trial.... you know "the facts".... not just "because", thats not an answer... thats an answer a child gives when they really don't have a reason!

All Im saying is if you are going to stand up against something or for something you believe in... than you should have a "reason"!!!

And please do not "dodge the bullet" as Charlie stated above! By dodging the bullet I mean answering this question with one of the following....
1- because the courts (judge/jury) decided their fate
2- It was proved in a court of law
3- because the state proved the case

These are all cop outs... I want you to use your own brain, and answer the question accordingly.... what convinced you of their guilt?

[Jeana (DP)]

Charlie, when I get into a in depth conversation about a criminal case, I'd like to have facts to talk about. Since it was MANY years and MANY MANY cases ago that I read the facts of this case, I'm not in a position to do so. You can accept that or not as you like, but it doesn't change the fact. I told you that what I do remember is that everything I read and saw made me believe they were guilty. I also told you that I have seen nothing since that time to change my mind. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, but you'll have to deal with that yourself.

[dasgal]

Ok, this is one of the cases I have to say they fowled up on. No way do I believe these kids are guilty. I believe it was Daddy all the way.

[Charlie]

Charlie, when I get into a in depth conversation about a criminal case, I'd like to have facts to talk about. Since it was MANY years and MANY MANY cases ago that I read the facts of this case, I'm not in a position to do so. You can accept that or not as you like, but it doesn't change the fact. I told you that what I do remember is that everything I read and saw made me believe they were guilty. I also told you that I have seen nothing since that time to change my mind. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, but you'll have to deal with that yourself.

Jeana i dont want to get into big thing about it, but i dont understand why you would bother posting on this topic if u dont have anything to say about it other than they are guilty case closed....its seems odd to me that u make a point of posting on this case yet dont feel compelled to dicuss the case with the rest of us...I enjoy reading others members opinions about cases as it sometimes makes me look at the case from a whole different perspective, you could even say thats what the point of the forum is, to convey our ideas to each other and make the puzzle complete.

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana i dont want to get into big thing about it, but i dont understand why you would bother posting on this topic if u dont have anything to say about it other than they are guilty case closed....its seems odd to me that u make a point of posting on this case yet dont feel compelled to dicuss the case with the rest of us...I enjoy reading others members opinions about cases as it sometimes makes me look at the case from a whole different perspective, you could even say thats what the point of the forum is, to convey our ideas to each other and make the puzzle complete.


Never said case closed. That's what this forum is here for. I want you to talk about to your heart's content. I think I said I studied it at lenght a LONG TIME ago and what my opinion was. I'm the moderator of this forum and sometimes posters want to know where I stand. So, I posted my opinion and now its up to ya'll to talk. So . . .talk.

[Jeana (DP)]

Ok, this is one of the cases I have to say they fowled up on. No way do I believe these kids are guilty. I believe it was Daddy all the way.


He's a creepy little man, isn't he???

[dasgal]

Yeah, he is pretty creepy. Did you see the second documentary DP? I suspected him before, but the second doc just sealed the deal for me. Not anything that the DOC said, but just by his own actions, and weird circumstances. It seems his wife mysteriously died as well.

[Jeana (DP)]

Yeah, he is pretty creepy. Did you see the second documentary DP? I suspected him before, but the second doc just sealed the deal for me. Not anything that the DOC said, but just by his own actions, and weird circumstances. It seems his wife mysteriously died as well.


Yeah, I've got the VHS. :eek: :eek:

[dasgal]

You've seen it and you really don't think Daddy did it? I'll be honest that I have not studied the transcripts. I'm wondering what it was that made you decide that the boys did it. I know about the confession, but that kid is shy most of his marbles. What besides that did it for you? Just curious.

[Jeana (DP)]

You've seen it and you really don't think Daddy did it? I'll be honest that I have not studied the transcripts. I'm wondering what it was that made you decide that the boys did it. I know about the confession, but that kid is shy most of his marbles. What besides that did it for you? Just curious.


LOL You'll have to read the rest of this thread to catch up with the discussion!!! I think Daddy is a weird weird dude with loads of problems, but I don't think he did it. You were a cop. You know how one sided some things can seem. That video was designed to make people think that he did it and take away from the three boys' guilt.

[dasgal]

Do you really think so? I thought it was pretty unbiased. Anyhoo, I'll take your advice and read the thread from the start.

I'm kinda surprised though that this one doesn't have it's own forum. Of all the old conviction cases out there, this one seems to have a pretty massive amount of vocal doubters.

[dasgal]

Ok, I went back and read, however it just jogged my memory on other disturbing aspects of the case, like Dad's teeth. The dude gets his teeth yanked right after the trial, but before the bite determination is made by the FBI advisor (sorry can't remember all the details exactly), and then proceeds to make up no less that four stories as to why and when they were extracted.

As far as "someone" saying Daddy had been paid a "lot" of money to act strange, and was paid more for being weirder......well this is why hearsay is not allowed in court. I just can't take any stock in that unless I see some sort of documentation. Sorry Tricia, I'm sure you are aces, but I just can't take this seriously.

And yes, Damien obviously has some "issues". Did you see the family interviews? The kid never stood a chance of not being weird. IMO his interest in the occult was to strengthen him in a world and a future he felt powerless over. I certainly don't believe it made him want to go out and perform mayhem on the Byers boy (specifically) and kill his boyhood friends. I met a few self professed Satanist when I was working for Wise County. I found them to be nothing more than sad kids from a less than nurturing background.
(Thier crime was kicking over gravestones). Beyond that, they were cowards. They talked big, but the very fact that they chose the particular religion only goes to show their true need for self empowerment. A mess in the mind to be sure, but there has never been any evidence that Satanists are any more prone to murder than Christians. Even when you set it up in a per ratio senerio. In fact, just the opposite is true.

Now, lets go back and look again at Daddy. The one to receive the most butchering was the Byers kid. This would point to a more personal interest in this particular child. Doesn't it make more sense that "Daddy" would be more inclined to be more personal with this particular victim than the WM3?
I can't remember what exactly now, but didn't Dad give the HBO team a knife that could potentially match the wounds, and didn't this knife have blood on it that couldn't be traced because of age or something? I remember Daddy being pretty quick on the draw to claim he accidentally cut himself.
And Mom......Weird how she just decided to take a zillion sleeping pills one day. Maybe not suicide, and maybe not homicide, but it's one of those things you can't help but throw in the pile.

Anyhoo, besides singling out the youngest, most frightened, most mentally ineffective child and getting him to confess, I don't see how the State has one decent peice of evidence against these kids.

[Amy Noel]

During Baldwin and Echols' trial, the defense introduced an exhibit labeled for identification purposes as the "John Mark Byers Knife." John Mark Byers gave this Kershaw knife to filmmakers Berlinger and Sinofsky as a Christmas gift. They in turn gave the knife to police in early January after they observed what appeared to be dried blood in the knife's hinging mechanism (Berlinger and Sinofsky). Tests determined that the material on the knife was human blood, matching the type of both John Mark and Chris Byers. In "Transcript of 1994 Police Interview with John Mark Byers," Byers first claimed he had never used the knife, and then recalled having used it on several occasions to trim his toenails and once in an attempt to cut deer meat. He vehemently denied that there was any reason whatsoever for the existence of human blood on the knife (1). However, as documented in Paradise Lost, when Byers took the stand in Baldwin and Echols' trial, Byers claimed the reason there was blood on the knife was that he had cut his thumb on it. He claimed that he must not have remembered having cut himself at the time of his interview with police (Berlinger and Sinofsky). Because of the blood on the knife being of the type belonging to both John Mark and Chris Byers, the results were inconclusive. Police and prosecutors were concerned enough about the blood on the knife to postpone Miskelley's trial pending the test results (Berlinger and Sinofsky).
Read more about this and other aspects of this case @ http://http://p210.ezboard.com/bwes...threediscussion (http://http://p210.ezboard.com/bwestmemphisthreediscussion)

[dasgal]

Thank you Amy. I didn't remember the whole gist of it but you covered it beautifully. I honestly don't understand how anyone can believe these kids did it. Sorry Tricia and Dp, but perhaps you need to go back and revisit this. It's not a defeat. Sometimes the law screws it up. I was the law, so I can tell you this with little shame. Better to get it right, I say.

[Amy Noel]

http://www.wm3.org/live/contact/messageboard.php hopefully this link works!
sorry!!!

[dasgal]

Thank you Amy but I can't get thru. I had a friend who wanted to do a book on this. I honestly can't believe anyone actually believes they did this. JMO.

[Amy Noel]

I also wanted to tell everyone who posts here, that sometimes I get a little too emotional about this case and it comes out in my posts. I do not mean to offend anyone here. And I hope that I have not. Please don't take it personaly. This is just a case that I have very strong feelings about. And I tend to get very upset when discussing the details. Again please don't let me offend anyone, thats not my intention.

[Jeana (DP)]

Thank you Amy but I can't get thru. I had a friend who wanted to do a book on this. I honestly can't believe anyone actually believes they did this. JMO.


:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Lots of us do. :)

[dasgal]

Here is the thing Amy, and you can take this from the mouth of an old dog...

Defense of the innocent is ALWAYS RIGHT. If you have to stand on the rooftops, scream into every camera you see, do it. It's better to side in error, than it is to let an innocent go to his death. I will always stand up for that. Our founding Fathers did, and it's good enough for me.

The problem arises in really knowing. You have to really educate yourself, but if you have, I say sing your song as loud as you can.

Can you imagine a day if you let someone go to their death and you hadn't said your piece? Can you imagine how bad you would feel? Foget all the people who disagreed with you. You have to live with yourself. You know what you did, and what you didn't do.

You have no obligation to enter any of this, but if you do, you are gonna have to make peace with it. You don't have to find an opinion and stick with it, but you do need to find an opinion at the end and make your own mind right with it.

So many people forget that we have the power. We have the powe to inact change. We have the power to demand that things be looked at further. We have the power to have this knife looked at more. Why not? It's my tax dollar. I don't wan't to hear some lazy Judge tell me he has a party to attend that day. I worked for these guys. I know the deal.
I'd rather rackle and piss off a hundred judges, before I would see a 20 year old go to his death because he wore black clothing.

[Amy Noel]

Good link to veiw some of the inconsistencies in the case http://p210.ezboard.com/fwestmemphisthreediscussionfrm37

[Jules]

This case has always baffled me and I flip-flop on who I think did it. I have read the books, but it's been years ago. Initially, I thought the kids did it. Then, at some point, I thought it was Byers. :confused:

I'm going to have to go back and do some reading. :) It would be awful if the kids were wrongly convicted.

Anyone know where Byers is now?

[dasgal]

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Lots of us do. :)
I have no idea what that means. Does it mean you can't get to the link? Does it mean you dont' believe this? I don't understand this.

[Amy Noel]

Here is the thing Amy, and you can take this from the mouth of an old dog...

Defense of the innocent is ALWAYS RIGHT. If you have to stand on the rooftops, scream into every camera you see, do it. It's better to side in error, than it is to let an innocent go to his death. I will always stand up for that. Our founding Fathers did, and it's good enough for me.

The problem arises in really knowing. You have to really educate yourself, but if you have, I say sing your song as loud as you can.

Can you imagine a day if you let someone go to their death and you hadn't said your piece? Can you imagine how bad you would feel? Foget all the people who disagreed with you. You have to live with yourself. You know what you did, and what you didn't do.


You have no obligation to enter any of this, but if you do, you are gonna have to make peace with it. You don't have to find an opinion and stick with it, but you do need to find an opinion at the end and make your own mind right with it.

So many people forget that we have the power. We have the powe to inact change. We have the power to demand that things be looked at further. We have the power to have this knife looked at more. Why not? It's my tax dollar. I don't wan't to hear some lazy Judge tell me he has a party to attend that day. I worked for these guys. I know the deal.
I'd rather rackle and piss off a hundred judges, before I would see a 20 year old go to his death because he wore black clothing.
AMEN! Thanks Dasgal!

I wish the DNA test results were completed. I don't understand what is taking so long? They were filed on 06/02/04? I guess it is a very tedious Legal process that has to be followed to the "T". But meanwhile their are 3 men in prison, 1 on death row... (13 years)! Can't they put a "rush" on this?

[Jeana (DP)]

I have no idea what that means. Does it mean you can't get to the link? Does it mean you dont' believe this? I don't understand this.


You said:

I honestly can't believe anyone actually believes they did this. JMO.


I said Lots of Us Do. ;)

[tennessee]

I think that these kids were not guilty. I remember when these murders happened and have read about them and been to the wm3 website. In my opinion, the father should really be looked at and considered suspect number one.

[Amy Noel]

This case has always baffled me and I flip-flop on who I think did it. I have read the books, but it's been years ago. Initially, I thought the kids did it. Then, at some point, I thought it was Byers. :confused:

I'm going to have to go back and do some reading. :) It would be awful if the kids were wrongly convicted.

Anyone know where Byers is now?
John Mark Byers posts at this message board http://www.wm3.org/live/contact/messageboard.php
his screen name is Kizza Myaz (http://p210.ezboard.com/bwestmemphisthreediscussion.showUserPublicProfile? gid=kizzamyaz) .

He was in jail...
Here is a little history on "JMB"


1970s. "I can remember quite vividly the day that I came to from the comatose state I had overdosed in my parents home. . ." PL2, church sermon. "Marijuana, I've tried coke, and some pills. . . just experimented as a teenager going to college." PL2, pre-polygraph interview.
1973. Byers threatened parents with butcher knife. Police called in. Threatened to cut the throat of the officer. DK, p. 299.
1980s. Ex-wife stated that Byers beat her and her children. Reported to Ron Lax, quoted in DK. p. 205. Melissa Byers father said, Mark Byers "beat Melissa up more than once; he blackened her eye." DK, p. 311.
September 1987. Conviction for threatening to kill his ex-wife. Three years probation. Wife cited previous death threats. p. 20-21. 149
1990. Sued for disappearance of $65000 in jewelry. Not held liable.
July 1992. Arrested for conspiracy to commit felony cocaine and possession of dangerous weapon, Memphis. No time served. DK p 46
December 1992. Investigated for the disappearance of $11000 in gold watches. Byers confessed. No charges brought. DK, p. 22, above note.
1994. West Memphis police have 13 outstanding warrants against Byers for bad checks. Reported by KAIT8 News, as shown in PL2. (Twelve outstanding warrants reported in DK) No time served.
September 1994. Mark and Melissa Byers jailed for stealing $20,000 in antiques. The complainant had her motor home burn down, cause undetermined. Ordered to pay restitution, banished from area.
September 1994. Contributing to delinquency of a minor. Providing a minor a folded knife to use as a bruising weapon. Byers held a .22 rifle to insist the fight take place. Sentenced to one year in jail. Ordered to pay half of hospital bills, $2000. No time served.
1994. Restraining order by Kingsbury's after Mark bruised their child. Kingsbury's stated that the Byers had threatened them. Bullet holes appeared in their trailer, the source undetermined. DK p. 299 and 390.
1996+. "I got in a DWI after my wife was murdered." PL2.
June 1998. Convicted of writing a bad check. One year suspended sentence. DK, p. 305.
April 1999. Sells Xanax to undercover officer. Five year prison sentence, sentence suspended. DK p. 306. With this judgment, prior probation is revoked and he is sentenced to eight years for the prior crimes of burglary and inciting a fight. He served fifteen months

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks for the link Amy! Very interesting. I found another link at that link, although I haven't had time to read much of anything.

http://p082.ezboard.com/bmurderincorporated

[Amy Noel]

It seems like he gets off easy... doesn't it? I guess when you are having cookouts and barbecues with the local law enforcement, you get off for some things and they don't look at you to hard for others??? Pay close attention to 1996 when he stated his wife was murdered ? I thought he said it was suicide because she couldn't dealk with the loss of Chris? And ....September 1994 Contributing to delinquency of a minor. Providing a minor a folded knife to use as a bruising weapon. Byers held a .22 rifle to insist the fight take ....1994 Restraining order by Kingsbury's after Mark bruised their child.... and what about further back.... 1973 Byers threatened parents with butcher knife or 1980s Ex-wife stated that Byers beat her and her children... still even September 1987 Conviction for threatening to kill his ex-wife.
It kinda makes you wonder don't it?

[Jeana (DP)]

MEMPHIS MODIFIED ZONE AND INFORMATION


IN 1. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN A POLYGRAPH TEST BEFORE?

SR 2. IN REGARD TO THE MURDER OF THOSE THREE YOUNG BOYS, ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH DURING THIS TEST?

R 3. AT ANY TIME WEDNESDAY OR WEDNESDAY NIGHT, WERE YOU IN ROBIN HOOD HILLS?

C. 4. HAVE YOU EVER KILLED A CAT OR A DOG?

R. 5. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THOSE BOYS WERE KILLED?

C 6. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN PART IN DEVIL WORSHIP?

R. 7. DID YOU KILL ANY OF THOSE THREE BOYS?

IN 8. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY DRUGS OR MEDICATION TODAY?

R. 9. DO YOU KNOW WHO KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS?

10. DO YOU SUSPECT ANYONE OF HAVING KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS?


001717



WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT P 93-0021

POLYGRAPH REPORT

TO: DET. RIDGE DATE OF EXAM MAY 10,1993
COMPLAINANT NUMBER CASE FILE NUMBER 93-05-0666
SUBJECT DAMIEN WAYNE ECHOLS SSN. ***-**-****
ADDRESS 2706 SOUTH GROVE DLN.
CITY/STATE WEST MEMPHIS,AR. D.O.B. 12-11-74
PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT N/A


PURPOSE OF EXAMINATION

HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION

REMARKS:

IN THE PRETEST INTERVIEW, THE SUBJECT DENIED HAVING BEEN IN ROBIN HOOD HILLS ON WEDNESDAY, MAY 5, 1993. HE DENIED BEING PRESENT WHEN THE VICTIMS WERE KILLED AND DENIED HAVING KILLED ANY OF THE VICTIMS. HE ALSO SAID HE DID NOT KNOW WHO KILLED THE THREE VICTIMS.

A TEN QUESTION POLYGRAPH TEST WAS FORMULATED AND THREE POLYGRAPH CHARTS WERE CONDUCTED. THE TEST CONTAINED THE FOLLOWING RELEVANT QUESTIONS:

Q.#3. AT ANY TIME WEDNESDAY OR WEDNESDAY NIGHT, WERE YOU IN ROBIN HOOD HILLS? "NO" Q.#5. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THOSE BOYS WERE KILLED? "NO"
Q.#7. DID YOU KILL ANY OF THOSE THREE BOYS? "NO"
Q.#9. DO YOU KNOW WHO KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS? "NO"
Q.#10.DO YOU SUSPECT ANYONE OF HAVING KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS? "NO"

IT IS THE OPINION OF THIS POLYGRAPH EXAMINER THAT THIS SUBJECT RECORDED SIGNIFICANT REPSPONSES INDICATIVE OF DECEPTION WHEN HE ANSWERED THE ABOVE LISTED RELEVANT QUESTIONS IN THE MANNER NOTED.

CONCLUSION: DECEPTION INDICATED

IN THE POST TEST INTERVIEW, THE SUBJECT DENIED ANY INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CRIME. AFTER APPROXIMATELY FORTY-FIVE MINUTES, I ASKED THE SUBJECT WHAT WAS HE AFRAID OF? HE REPLIED: "THE ELECTRIC CHAIR". HE THEN SAID THAT HE LIKED THE HOSPITAL IN LITTLE ROCK. (HE SAID HE HAD BEEN TREATED THERE FOR MANIC-DEPRESSION) AFTER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, THE SUBJECT CEASED TO DENIE HIS INVOLVEMENT. (ADMISSION THROUGH ABSENCE OF DENIAL) HE THEN SAID: "I WILL TELL YOU ALL ABOUT IT IF YOU WILL LET ME TALK TO MY MOTHER." DETECTIVE RIDGE BROUGHT HIS MOTHER IN TO MY OFFICE TO TALK TO HIM. AFTER TALKING TO HIS MOTHER HE AGAIN DENIED BEING INVOLVED IN THE MURDERS. AFTER APPROXIMATELY TWENTY MINUTES, I ASKED: "YOUR'E NEVER GOING TO TELL ANYONE ABOUT THIS BUT YOUR DOCTOR, ARE YOU?" HE REPLIED: "NO".

Bill Durham


001710
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/depoly.html

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not sure who owns this website, but it appears to have everything:

http://callahan.8k.com/

[Jeana (DP)]

And Mom......Weird how she just decided to take a zillion sleeping pills one day. Maybe not suicide, and maybe not homicide, but it's one of those things you can't help but throw in the pile.



Das, here's a link to Melissa's autopsy report. She didn't take any sleeping pills, but it is interesting:

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/mbautopsy.html

[Amy Noel]

I'm not sure who owns this website, but it appears to have everything:

http://callahan.8k.com/
Well, not really. I find it very interesting that thy have Damien's polygraph but not Jesse's? I guess because Jesse passed his!!!

[dasgal]

I dont understand what is taking so long either. A year is a long time to look at a knife. But I think it goes further than that. I think maybe it's been done for a while. I think a few people are trying to work out pride issues and wondering about future elections.

I always think this is soooo sad when that happens. People who worry about how mistakes will be deemed. You would think that they would understand that people would see that by admitting a mistake, they would be seen on an even higher ground. Yeah, you might have to give the kids some money. Yeah, you will have to go on record and say you made a booboo, but what is more important in the long run? A person's pride or what is right. We've all seen the miscarraige of justice. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, it's pretty darn slow in making itself right. Too many lawyers wondering about the payout. Too many politicians wondering about the damage. Unfortunately that means innocent people sit in jail even longer. Justice should always come before pride, but that's just a wild dream of mine.

[Jeana (DP)]

Well, not really. I find it very interesting that thy have Damien's polygraph but not Jesse's? I guess because Jesse passed his!!!

I haven't looked at all of the documents yet, but its a great source of information for anyone who wants to get up to speed on this case enough to talk about it with ya'll!!!

[dasgal]

Jeana, I love ya girl, but there is a reason why lie dectector tests are not admitted in court. I had an old friend years ago tell me how to beat one. Not that I needed to, so I asked another friend who was a member of the Texas Rangers to test me on it. Sure enough I lied my butt off through the entire test and beat it with flying colors.

How did I do it? My advice was to sing, "Mary had a little Lamb" in my head for the entire interview.

So I got to thinking....what if someone had disjointed thoughts? Wouldn't that skew the test? Not to be one who is shy I went and asked. yep. Random thoughts mess the test up. The test is built on the fact that most people can concentrate. But not all can.

[Amy Noel]

I dont understand what is taking so long either. A year is a long time to look at a knife. But I think it goes further than that. I think maybe it's been done for a while. I think a few people are trying to work out pride issues and wondering about future elections.

I always think this is soooo sad when that happens. People who worry about how mistakes will be deemed. You would think that they would understand that people would see that by admitting a mistake, they would be seen on an even higher ground. Yeah, you might have to give the kids some money. Yeah, you will have to go on record and say you made a booboo, but what is more important in the long run? A person's pride or what is right. We've all seen the miscarraige of justice. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, it's pretty darn slow in making itself right. Too many lawyers wondering about the payout. Too many politicians wondering about the damage. Unfortunately that means innocent people sit in jail even longer. Justice should always come before pride, but that's just a wild dream of mine.

Actually its more than the knife....


LIST A ITEMS

Evidence Item # Related #s Lab Case # Description

Michael Moore

FP2 93-05716 Left hand nail scrapings from victim
FP3 93-05716 Right hand nail scrapings from victim
FP5 93-05716 Two (2) Caucasian hairs removed from Moore.
FP6 93-05716 One (1) package containing ligatures from wrists to legs, right and left, of victim Moore.
FP6 QH 93-05176 Hair from Moore ligature
FP6 93-05176 Skin/tissue/hairs from Moore ligatures
FP7 Qt-4 93-05716 Swabs taken from Moore
FP7 93-05716 Dyed hair from FP7 (Moore)

Steven Branch

FP3 93-05717 Nail scrapings from victim Branch
FP4 93-05717 Right hand nail scrapings, Branch
FP5 93-05717 Two (2) dark Caucasion hairs removed from Branch.
FP6 93-05717 Ligatures from victim Branch
FP6 93-05717 Skin, tissue or hair removed from Branch ligatures
FP6 K1-Q1-4 93-0717 Branch blood sample; swabs

Christopher Byers

FP3 93-05718 Hair found on Byers' body
FP4 93-05718 Left hand nail scrapings from Byers
FP5 93-05718 Right hand nail scrapings, Byers
FP6 QH 93-05718 Hair on lower body, Byers
FP8 93-05718 Ligatures from right and left extremities, Byers
FP8 QH 93-05718 Hair from Byers' ligature
FP8 93-05718 Tissue, skin or hair, Byers' ligature
FP9 93-05718 Hair, perineum, Byers

Evidence Item # Related #s Lab Case # Description

FP10 QH 93-05718 Negroid hair removed from white sheet 1
FP10 Q1-3 93-05718 Swabs from Byers

Other Evidence

E3 93-05716 Hair from E3
E5 93-05716 Hair from Scout cap
E126 QH 93-05716 Hair from knife
E127 LS1-QH 93-05716 Hair from tree stump
E147 QH 93-05716 Hair from knife

Clothing Cuttings

E3 93-05716 Cuttings from blue pants
E7 93-05716 Cuttings from jeans

Knife

E178 93-05716 Kershaw folding knife


LIST B ITEMS

Evidence Item # Related #s Lab Case # Description

E1A 93-05716 Bag of clothing, area of homicide
E27 93-05716 Hair from knife
E28 93-05716 Hair from E28 butterfly knife
E134 QH 93-05716 Hair from knife
E17 93-05716 One (1) wooden stick, scene
FP10 QH 93-05716 Negroid hair removed from white sheet

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I love ya girl, but there is a reason why lie dectector tests are not admitted in court. I had an old friend years ago tell me how to beat one. Not that I needed to, so I asked another friend who was a member of the Texas Rangers to test me on it. Sure enough I lied my butt off through the entire test and beat it with flying colors.

How did I do it? My advice was to sing, "Mary had a little Lamb" in my head for the entire interview.

So I got to thinking....what if someone had disjointed thoughts? Wouldn't that skew the test? Not to be one who is shy I went and asked. yep. Random thoughts mess the test up. The test is built on the fact that most people can concentrate. But not all can.


I hadn't seen it before and thought it was interesting. I'm not ready to hang him because of it. GEEZ! LOL Anyway, there is a lot of information at that site and was hoping people who've never studied the info on this case would get involved enough so that it may justify having its own area! Give a girl a break!!! :D

[dasgal]

We love ya. It's a wacky case for sure. I'd love seeing it in it's own forum. I belong to photog forums who are wild about this case. There is much more public intrest in this one than most.
Wouldn't hurt to give it a prelim......

[dasgal]

Actually its more than the knife....


LIST A ITEMS

Evidence Item # Related #s Lab Case # Description

Michael Moore

FP2 93-05716 Left hand nail scrapings from victim
FP3 93-05716 Right hand nail scrapings from victim
FP5 93-05716 Two (2) Caucasian hairs removed from Moore.
FP6 93-05716 One (1) package containing ligatures from wrists to legs, right and left, of victim Moore.
FP6 QH 93-05176 Hair from Moore ligature
FP6 93-05176 Skin/tissue/hairs from Moore ligatures
FP7 Qt-4 93-05716 Swabs taken from Moore
FP7 93-05716 Dyed hair from FP7 (Moore)

Steven Branch

FP3 93-05717 Nail scrapings from victim Branch
FP4 93-05717 Right hand nail scrapings, Branch
FP5 93-05717 Two (2) dark Caucasion hairs removed from Branch.
FP6 93-05717 Ligatures from victim Branch
FP6 93-05717 Skin, tissue or hair removed from Branch ligatures
FP6 K1-Q1-4 93-0717 Branch blood sample; swabs

Christopher Byers

FP3 93-05718 Hair found on Byers' body
FP4 93-05718 Left hand nail scrapings from Byers
FP5 93-05718 Right hand nail scrapings, Byers
FP6 QH 93-05718 Hair on lower body, Byers
FP8 93-05718 Ligatures from right and left extremities, Byers
FP8 QH 93-05718 Hair from Byers' ligature
FP8 93-05718 Tissue, skin or hair, Byers' ligature
FP9 93-05718 Hair, perineum, Byers

Evidence Item # Related #s Lab Case # Description

FP10 QH 93-05718 Negroid hair removed from white sheet 1
FP10 Q1-3 93-05718 Swabs from Byers

Other Evidence

E3 93-05716 Hair from E3
E5 93-05716 Hair from Scout cap
E126 QH 93-05716 Hair from knife
E127 LS1-QH 93-05716 Hair from tree stump
E147 QH 93-05716 Hair from knife

Clothing Cuttings

E3 93-05716 Cuttings from blue pants
E7 93-05716 Cuttings from jeans

Knife

E178 93-05716 Kershaw folding knife


LIST B ITEMS

Evidence Item # Related #s Lab Case # Description

E1A 93-05716 Bag of clothing, area of homicide
E27 93-05716 Hair from knife
E28 93-05716 Hair from E28 butterfly knife
E134 QH 93-05716 Hair from knife
E17 93-05716 One (1) wooden stick, scene
FP10 QH 93-05716 Negroid hair removed from white sheet








Crap, I had no idea. Those poor kids. Misfuddled, but I feel sorry for them.

[Charlie]

dasgal you have some great thoughts, enjoyed reading them. I wish i could remember that quote about evil occuring when good men stay silent...i think that sums up how u feel yes? Also Amy thanks for the information, with your diligence perhaps we could get a forum devoted to wm3.

As far as the DNA analysis goes its pathetic how long its taking. And John Mark Beyers should have definetly been investigated, the US justice system is so corrupt.

[Usher737]

I'm not sure who owns this website, but it appears to have everything:

http://callahan.8k.com/

I man named Callahan put it together and paid for it. It is now funded by another group.

[Amy Noel]

I can't wait for this movie to come out...http://www.hollywood.com/movies/detail/id/3462704
I think Micheal Pitt is an excellent coice for Damien, he resembles him so much in this pic...

[mic730]

I just finished reading Devils Knot. I keep turning the pages waiting for the piece of evidence that really tied these 3 boys to the crime.

The only think that I found somewhat compelling (I tossed the confession) was Jessie and the whiskey bottle. And even that does not tie the 3 to a crime.

This has probably been addressed here but did the judge ever rule on the DNA testing?

ETA: Just went to the site and read that as of 03/06 the testing has still not been done.

[Amy Noel]

I just finished reading Devils Knot. I keep turning the pages waiting for the piece of evidence that really tied these 3 boys to the crime.

The only think that I found somewhat compelling (I tossed the confession) was Jessie and the whiskey bottle. And even that does not tie the 3 to a crime.

This has probably been addressed here but did the judge ever rule on the DNA testing?

ETA: Just went to the site and read that as of 03/06 the testing has still not been done.
Yes, Dna was sent it on 06/02/04.... still awaiting results.... the list of all evidence and items sent to be tested is listed here on a previous post, see #109.

[Alta]

I just finished watching both the Paradise lost dvd's.I find myself sitting on the fence leaning slightly towards the three being innocent.I think if anything the three deserve a new trial.I think there was alot of misconduct concerning the confession from Jessie and some of the evidence.

I don't know if JMB had anything to do with the murders,but I noticed when he was put on the stand concerning the knife he give to HBO,he looked as guilty as hell.He had lost all his confidence when he testified.His eyes tell a story.
Something else that really bothers me about him is he spends 75% of the time on film quoting the bible and basically claiming to be such a god fearing man.What kind of religous person whose step son is murdered and mutilated by a knife,encourages young kids to fight with knives.As well as commit fraud,steal,sell drugs to an undercover police officer and lie his face off for a polygraph.I can understand never being the same again when you lose a child,that goes without saying,but you cannot blame becoming a criminal on this.
I am very interested to see what the results of the dna tests say.I wonder when Paradise Lost 3 is supposed to come out,anyone have a clue?

[Amy Noel]

I wonder when Paradise Lost 3 is supposed to come out,anyone have a clue?
This was posted on WM3.org sometime ago....
May 24, 2004

Filmmakers Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky are starting production of their third Paradise Lost film this summer. Funded by HBO and slated for theatrical release in 2006, the new film aims to tell the definitive story of the West Memphis Three case, from the initial arrests to the conclusion of their appeals process. Paradise Lost 3 (working title) will combine material from Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills and Revelations: Paradise Lost 2 with new footage soon to be filmed.
I can't wait to see...http://www.hollywood.com/movies/detail/id/3462704

[inquiringmindz]

http://www.wm3.org/live/newsevents/newsitem.php?index=1&news_Id=120#

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks!!

[Goody]

I haven't kept up on this case, but last year I did start reading the docs on the website, specifically police reports. Echols was going around telling classmates that he and the other boys did it. He seemed like a good susspect to me. I really didn't get the suspicion of the stepfather. He might be a lowlife, according to most moral standards today, but that hardly would qualify him as a pedofile and child multilator. Two different species there. All too often the people who do these kind of heinous crimes don't even have a criminal record. So what do you guys think? Are Echols and pals guilty? Is this a case worth researching more? What does Misskelley say today?

[Jeana (DP)]

I haven't kept up on this case, but last year I did start reading the docs on the website, specifically police reports. Echols was going around telling classmates that he and the other boys did it. He seemed like a good susspect to me. I really didn't get the suspicion of the stepfather. He might be a lowlife, according to most moral standards today, but that hardly would qualify him as a pedofile and child multilator. Two different species there. All too often the people who do these kind of heinous crimes don't even have a criminal record. So what do you guys think? Are Echols and pals guilty? Is this a case worth researching more? What does Misskelley say today?


The step father is truly a creepy guy. I wouldn't want to be in a room alone with him, that's for sure. I just don't see any evidence that he murdered the boys.