Children, 4,3,2 and 1 home alone in filth

[believe09]

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/20229686/detail.html

I am just trying to straighten this out in my mind. Mom leaves these children alone in a filthy home, no working plumbing and no food. The children go begging to the neighbors for food and it is revealed that they haven't been bathed for a month, since they moved in....

Police call mom at work, and she blames it on her brother-the reason they are alone that is.

Kids are removed to grandma's house pending mom getting the house cleaned up-and the police are going to decide IF they are going to charge mom.

Now, had she left them alone in a car while she worked, she would have been charged for sure. I am trying not to leap to a judgement here, but this is a DISASTER in the making...jmo. We are talking 4 BABIES here.

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Wow believe, I totally agree with you! that is horrible! either scenario, car or an apartment.

Looks like abandonment or neglect at the least! hmmm, interesting to see any updates on this article...

[CHICANA]

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/20229686/detail.html

I am just trying to straighten this out in my mind. Mom leaves these children alone in a filthy home, no working plumbing and no food. The children go begging to the neighbors for food and it is revealed that they haven't been bathed for a month, since they moved in....

Police call mom at work, and she blames it on her brother-the reason they are alone that is.

Kids are removed to grandma's house pending mom getting the house cleaned up-and the police are going to decide IF they are going to charge mom.

Now, had she left them alone in a car while she worked, she would have been charged for sure. I am trying not to leap to a judgement here, but this is a DISASTER in the making...jmo. We are talking 4 BABIES here.

If she left them home alone, she needs to be charged with neglect. They could have been hurt or killed. They're babies.
If her brother said he'd watch them, I think he should be charged.
It sounds like she might need a bailout. It might seem strange for the government to hand out money to people who actually need it, but there's a first time for everything.
Paying her water and trash for a year would certainly help.
Maybe they could help her out with decent childcare too.
A cleaning lady ?
It has to be hard to work, take care of four children under the age of four and have a spotless house.
At least the dirty dishes were in the sink.
Also, these kids are 4 and under, do kids that age really know how long it's been since they had a bath ?
I'd imagine someone asked, hey kid- have you had a bath since you moved in here ?
"NO"
It said they were hungry, do we know if they looked malnourished or abused ?


__________________________________________________ _______________
Police said they found the children, ages 4, 3, 2 and 1, alone in the home that had dirty dishes in the sink, a toilet filled with feces and spoiled food in the refrigerator.

As for this... I didn't see the inside, there was bagged trash outside the back door- if she couldn't afford water, she probably couldn't afford trash service either.
I have dirty dishes in my sink right now. I worked late last night, the kids ate at their babysitters, but had a late snack. I was too tired to do the dishes last night and I had to leave for work at 7 AM. Hopefully my eight year old daughter remembered to flush the toilet (she forgets sometimes) but there were no feces in my toilet last time I checked.
Sometimes I find some scary looking stuff at the back of my fridge's veggie drawer.
I'd really have to see the inside, my version of filth might not be the same as others.

[yanknrebel]

This is exactly how our adopted twins were found. ALL alone in a duplex while mom was down the road just visiting. The house was nasty, no clean bottles, the special formula they had to take due to being preemies had raoches crawling in them. My babies were 5 months old at this time. Our baby girl was still wearing preemie clothes when we got her. A preemie size at 5 months!!! This biomom would feed them at 7pm put them to bed, leave to go out to local bar, then not get them out of bed, feed them or change them until at least 8 am the next day. Luckily the caseworker who had given services for her first two kids that were removed, was also worker for this case. Luckily she went by unannounced. It is funny the things they can find out when they make unscheduled visits. Wonder if this mother had been involved with CPS at all? ALso this is an awfully big house for someone who is single, raising 4 kids and can;t afford to have water on. Glad she is working at least. DO we know what that profession is? Glad these babies weren;t left in a hot car.

[CuriousTwo]

Total neglect. She should be charged with neglect and endangerment, and I agree that if the mother's brother was supposed to be watching them and didn't, he should also be charged with neglect and endangerment.

If the food was spoiled in the fridge, it means that she left that morning knowing that there was no food in the house - no milk, no juice, no baby formula or baby food, etc. There are government programs that provide food assistance and there's no excuse for starving children.

Regarding the one child stating they'd not bathed since moving into the house, I think a 4-year old is quite capable of comprehending whether they've ever had a bath in their new home, and they're also quite capable of communicating that to adults.

Another sad, sad situation and unfortunately, the children will probably be put back in the same environment.

[VespaElf]

Government intervention is no solution for ignorance,cruelty & irresponsibility -which are just a few of the nicer adjectives that likely describe this woman.
I was a young,overwhelmed & poor mom with 4 kids & I can assure you NOTHING like this ever occurred in my household.
This woman likely had no business having ONE child let alone FOUR.
The only victims in this story are the children & the are the only ones who need government help (i.e state intervention)

[CuriousTwo]

Government intervention is no solution for ignorance,cruelty & irresponsibility -which are just a few of the nicer adjectives that likely describe this woman.
I was a young,overwhelmed & poor mom with 4 kids & I can assure you NOTHING like this ever occurred in my household.
This woman likely had no business having ONE child let alone FOUR.
The only victims in this story are the children & the are the only ones who need government help (i.e state intervention)

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Fairy1]

Government intervention is no solution for ignorance,cruelty & irresponsibility -which are just a few of the nicer adjectives that likely describe this woman.
I was a young,overwhelmed & poor mom with 4 kids & I can assure you NOTHING like this ever occurred in my household.
This woman likely had no business having ONE child let alone FOUR.
The only victims in this story are the children & the are the only ones who need government help (i.e state intervention)

ITA! And where is the father - or more likely - fathers of all these babies?

Her FAMILY said she is overwhelmed and struggling. Where were they if they knew she needed help? Her claim that she told her brother to watch the kids means nothing. She obviously left before he showed up or she would have known he wasn't there. Idiots all around.

[CuriousTwo]

Her FAMILY said she is overwhelmed and struggling. Where were they if they knew she needed help? Her claim that she told her brother to watch the kids means nothing. She obviously left before he showed up or she would have known he wasn't there. Idiots all around.

Not that I blame the grandparents totally for not being aware of the situation, but if they knew there was potential for the children to not be cared for adequately, I agree they are just as guilty. Hopefully, the grandparents aren't grudgingly caring for them now - that's the last thing those poor children need - to know that someone is only taking them in because they feel they HAVE to.

Honestly, what is going on in this world?

[nursebeeme]

I think we all know how this one will end (or take a good guess)... kids go back, neglect continues until one of the children really get hurt..

[Fairy1]

I think we all know how this one will end (or take a good guess)... kids go back, neglect continues until one of the children really get hurt..

Or dead. :furious:

[txsvicki]

I hope it's checked whether the mother left the kids alone and asleep when she went to work. The article said they were eating berries off a tree. If they had picked the wrong tree or bush, that alone could have made them very ill.

[CHICANA]

Government intervention is no solution for ignorance,cruelty & irresponsibility -which are just a few of the nicer adjectives that likely describe this woman.
I was a young,overwhelmed & poor mom with 4 kids & I can assure you NOTHING like this ever occurred in my household.
This woman likely had no business having ONE child let alone FOUR.
The only victims in this story are the children & the are the only ones who need government help (i.e state intervention)

If she left her children with her brother who she thought she could trust, was she intentionally ignorant and irresponsible ?
I don't see where the cruelty comes in.

It doesn't say they were malnourished, just hungry. I need more to decide that she's unfit. I don't know if this is just a circumstantial event.
My youngest eats all the time.
If the issues are due to finances, then ya, I think gov't could divert some of the $$ they're giving to banks who pay their CEO's millions, to a working mother who's having a hard time making ends meet.
Helping her financially would cost less and be less traumatic than sticking her kids in foster care and destroying her life and probably those of the children.

[CHICANA]

Total neglect. She should be charged with neglect and endangerment, and I agree that if the mother's brother was supposed to be watching them and didn't, he should also be charged with neglect and endangerment.

If the food was spoiled in the fridge, it means that she left that morning knowing that there was no food in the house - no milk, no juice, no baby formula or baby food, etc. There are government programs that provide food assistance and there's no excuse for starving children.

Regarding the one child stating they'd not bathed since moving into the house, I think a 4-year old is quite capable of comprehending whether they've ever had a bath in their new home, and they're also quite capable of communicating that to adults.

Another sad, sad situation and unfortunately, the children will probably be put back in the same environment.

I don't think a 4 year old knows the difference between a week and a month.
4 year old's are awesome judges of facial expressions and tones and love to give answers they think the asker wants.
My teen liked to ask my 3-4 year old "is this your $1 or $20 to see her smile and nod her head yes.
The adult's demeanor plays a huge part in any answer you get from a toddler/pre-schooler.

I disagree that having spoiled food means there was no food. When I've found a surprise, fuzz covered whatever in my fridge, it's because someone put something new in the fridge and shoved the old to the back or it fell between the shelf & fridge wall.
Groceries don't last long in my house. It's like, "wow, mom brought home $300 of everything we like. Let's eat it all now". The kitchen door leads to the back-yard and my son is famous for coming in from playing and taking 'snacks' to the 5,10,20 kids playing in our yard.

[CHICANA]

Good thing they don't live in Oklahoma City. They could end up in this foster home....

http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-childed-branded-story,0,5098466.story

He's 9 years old.
"The foster mother accused him of stealing money from her. At that point she took this potato masher, heated it on the stove to where it was red hot & branded him."

The boy told police he then went back to his bedroom, started crying and then the 72-year-old foster mother Joycelyn Louis told him "I'm not finished with you" and continued to burn him. She then allegedly told him, if anybody asks, "say you were accidentally burned."

[Boyz_Mum]

Good thing they don't live in Oklahoma City. They could end up in this foster home....

http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-childed-branded-story,0,5098466.story

He's 9 years old.
"The foster mother accused him of stealing money from her. At that point she took this potato masher, heated it on the stove to where it was red hot & branded him."

The boy told police he then went back to his bedroom, started crying and then the 72-year-old foster mother Joycelyn Louis told him "I'm not finished with you" and continued to burn him. She then allegedly told him, if anybody asks, "say you were accidentally burned."

This is horrible. Too bad the law can't brand her.

I'm not sure what to make of the living situation of the family in question here. The video on the the news channel showed a home that didn't look that bad from the outside (the home I saw had what looked like newish siding and windows- a beige or cream in color?) I saw trash outside and toys in deep grass (not nearly as deep of grass as I've seen around other homes). I didn't see the inside.

I'm not sure how it was determined that the children didn't bathe in a month, if you asked my kids "when did you last bathe", they could say, we never take a bath. If you asked them if they were hungry, they would say "we're starved!" They're older than the kids in question here, but at 2, 3, and 4, I couldn't guarantee what might come out of their mouths. Also, if a neighbor commented on the bathing of the kids, I'm not sure it's entirely believable. How would a neighbor know when they bathed last? There were days when my kids looked like they never bathed with only one days worth of dirt on them. (When they played, they played and got as dirty as humanly possible.)

Until the situation can be figured out for this family, I'm glad the kids are able to be with their grandparents. I do hope the grandparents are good with them. Of course the sitation deserves to be investigated and hopefully the mother can correct it.

Thanks CHICANA for helping me see another side of this story. :blowkiss:

[OneLostGrl]

Good thing they don't live in Oklahoma City. They could end up in this foster home....

http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-childed-branded-story,0,5098466.story

He's 9 years old.
"The foster mother accused him of stealing money from her. At that point she took this potato masher, heated it on the stove to where it was red hot & branded him."

The boy told police he then went back to his bedroom, started crying and then the 72-year-old foster mother Joycelyn Louis told him "I'm not finished with you" and continued to burn him. She then allegedly told him, if anybody asks, "say you were accidentally burned."

There's plently other like it out there though.

[Boyz_Mum]

There's plently other like it out there though.

Every time I read about a foster monster like this, I think about Ricky Holland. Another victim.

[Mr. E]

If there is no working plumbing in the house, then it's not so hard to believe that the kids haven't washed.

I'd like to know the full story. Where's the dad? Why so many small kids if there is no money? Why no gov't assistance (I assume)?

[Bluesky#1]

I think calling on the group Gloria Alred is involved with that was willing to help OctoMom offers a viable solution here. The family is in a severe crisis and they need serioius help. This is way too much for a single working person to handle and I feel she needs an advocate of hope to come to her aid. Her brother can't realistically do enough to make a difference either so I feel it would be wonderful if the mother connected to an organization I mentioned above or agencies in her community that can provide the types of services she needs through local volunteer groups.

[Mr. E]

I've been thinking more about this. I have a 1 1/2 year old, and I thought if there was no working plumbing it would be very dangerous. How could you clean a baby properly? It's summer and, I assume, very hot there. Are the kids getting enough to drink? Baby Mr. E has been vomiting all day, and we were ready to take her into the ER if she didn't drink something this afternoon (luckily, she had a full bottle of Pedialyte, and has had some other things, too, since then). How has the mother properly cared for her children in those conditions? Has she sought help to get the plumbing fixed? What about the garbage? We missed our garbage day last week and had to buy a second receptacle because garbage was piling up. It's in the 90s; the smell would have been horrific.

Her situation seems a little more severe than just letting things get behind. I want to know what she was doing to fix her situation.

[Bobbisangel]

Before I judge this mother I would like to hear the rest of the story too. Did she have a regular babysitter that the kids went to who couldn't babysit that day? Is she getting help with daycare and is she aware that there are organizations like the Red Cross, etc that will help with water and utility bills once each year? Does she get food stamps to help with food or is she trying to handle everything by herself on the wages she is earning? Maybe pride is keeping her from asking for help.

She really has her hands full with children in stairsteps. I would imagine that her water was either never turned on or it has been shut off because of lack of payment. When a person moves into a new rental it costs a fortune. Usually first and last months rent and damage deposit. Then there are the deposits on utilitys and phone, cable, etc. It's hard for most people with two people working.

I hope that LE looks into this to see what type of problems were keeping the mom from having water, lights and food. There has to be more to this then we have heard so far.

Maybe this mom would be better of going on Welfare with her 4 kids instead of working until the kids are a little older. They are so close together and that in itself is a full time job. If she was on welfare she would get foodstamps which would help, she wouldn't need daycare, and she could get budget plans or discounts on her utilitys and phone bills. That might be the best for the family right now....in my opinion.

[Fairy1]

Before I judge this mother I would like to hear the rest of the story too. Did she have a regular babysitter that the kids went to who couldn't babysit that day? Is she getting help with daycare and is she aware that there are organizations like the Red Cross, etc that will help with water and utility bills once each year? Does she get food stamps to help with food or is she trying to handle everything by herself on the wages she is earning? Maybe pride is keeping her from asking for help.

She really has her hands full with children in stairsteps. I would imagine that her water was either never turned on or it has been shut off because of lack of payment. When a person moves into a new rental it costs a fortune. Usually first and last months rent and damage deposit. Then there are the deposits on utilitys and phone, cable, etc. It's hard for most people with two people working.

I hope that LE looks into this to see what type of problems were keeping the mom from having water, lights and food. There has to be more to this then we have heard so far.

Maybe this mom would be better of going on Welfare with her 4 kids instead of working until the kids are a little older. They are so close together and that in itself is a full time job. If she was on welfare she would get foodstamps which would help, she wouldn't need daycare, and she could get budget plans or discounts on her utilitys and phone bills. That might be the best for the family right now....in my opinion.

I totally respect your position BA. But I'm sorry, as a mother, I would NEVER have moved my babies into a home with no utilities. And, it would appear she was not even on food stamps with nothing but rotting food in the refridgerator.

I was on food stamps for a short time when my babies were little. I would rather have gouged out my own eyes, but I did what I needed to do and that's really the bottom line here. Pride? No. When you have babies to care for, pride should take a backseat. And....it seems she had a family she could turn to for assistance.

And lastly, I never locked my babies in a friggin attic when they were unruly. That's really not the right way to parent.

[Opie]

Dare anyone say this mother also needs a visit to Planned Parenthood for contraception?

[YellowSubmarine]

There is NO excuse to leave four babies at home alone. NONE. I am shocked the amount of people trying to defend her. I am a single mom of three and, yes, we struggle, but we make it work.

No food? -- Get foodstamps!
No daycare? -- Get daycare assistance!
No water? -- Get assistance from United Way!

Without a doubt, this woman should be charged with child endangerment and neglect. Those babies need to be placed in a safe home. Thank the Lord they went out looking for food. Who knows how long this has been going on and how long it would have.

[YellowSubmarine]

Dare anyone say this mother also needs a visit to Planned Parenthood for contraception?


ITA - If you can't take care of the kids you have, DON'T HAVE MORE! Ahem, Nadya Suleman . . . :bang:

[CHICANA]

Every time I read about a foster monster like this, I think about Ricky Holland. Another victim.

Marcus Feisel is always the first to pop into my head.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060903/NEWS01/609030358

Here's a new case, luckily the kids are ok.
A Michigan couple left their foster children, ages 2 and 4, alone in their Walt Disney World hotel room for two hours Friday while they swam and tanned at the resort's pool, deputies said.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Kimberly Simmons, a counselor at a Michigan school, told them she has left the boy and girl unsupervised in the past. Deputies said neither foster parent seemed bothered by leaving the children alone.
---- Isn't that nice ? She's a school counselor.
http://www.parentsbehavingbadly.com/2009/07/21/kids-left-in-hotel-room-at-happiest-place-on-earth/

At least the kids in this case are with someone they know.

[CHICANA]

I totally respect your position BA. But I'm sorry, as a mother, I would NEVER have moved my babies into a home with no utilities. And, it would appear she was not even on food stamps with nothing but rotting food in the refridgerator.

I was on food stamps for a short time when my babies were little. I would rather have gouged out my own eyes, but I did what I needed to do and that's really the bottom line here. Pride? No. When you have babies to care for, pride should take a backseat. And....it seems she had a family she could turn to for assistance.

And lastly, I never locked my babies in a friggin attic when they were unruly. That's really not the right way to parent.

The kid who was locked in the attic didn't belong to this woman, it's a completely different story.
I don't know if pride had anything to do with anything, but I read that there were problems with the pipes/plumbing, not that the bill wasn't paid.
That could happen to anyone. If you own, you might have to wait on a paycheck to be able to afford the repairs, if you rent, you have to wait on the landlord.
I'm going to look for that article.
We don't know if her family was willing to help her prior to this.
We don't know if there was food in the house or if the kids were malnourished.
When my kids say there's no food in the house, it means there's no snack food or nothing they can make themselves.
We don't know if she planned to go to the grocery store after work.
Not everybody has a fully stocked kitchen at all times. When I have to put in extra time at work, my fridge gets pretty empty, that doesn't mean my kids don't eat. That means that Tuesday night might be McD's, Wednesday KFC and Thursday Pizza Hut.
I'm sure the food police are on their way to my house now to charge me with nutritional neglect.
Kids under four couldn't make themselves bacon and eggs, but it doesn't mean they weren't in the fridge.
I just don't know. I've only heard one side of the story. I know that I haven't heard that the kids appeared abused or or malnourished.

[Fairy1]

Marcus Feisel is always the first to pop into my head.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060903/NEWS01/609030358

Here's a new case, luckily the kids are ok.
A Michigan couple left their foster children, ages 2 and 4, alone in their Walt Disney World hotel room for two hours Friday while they swam and tanned at the resort's pool, deputies said.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Kimberly Simmons, a counselor at a Michigan school, told them she has left the boy and girl unsupervised in the past. Deputies said neither foster parent seemed bothered by leaving the children alone.
---- Isn't that nice ? She's a school counselor.
http://www.parentsbehavingbadly.com/2009/07/21/kids-left-in-hotel-room-at-happiest-place-on-earth/

At least the kids in this case are with someone they know.

Oh FGS! WTH is wrong with people? What is that old saying? The devil you know is better than the one you don't....or something along those lines. Devils are devils! I can't even start on the foster "care" system.

Why, why, why are there so many people capable of harming children? I don't understand!!! I have NEVER come across a child - mine or otherwise - that I could hurt in any way.

I will NOT cut this mother a break - no matter what! Her children were obviously neglected and quite possibly abused. I don't care how much she was struggling! The maternal instinct is a powerful force and some women are missing that gene. IMO, this is one of them.

[CHICANA]

ITA - If you can't take care of the kids you have, DON'T HAVE MORE! Ahem, Nadya Suleman . . . :bang:

What happens when you can take care of them when you have them, then you lose your job and your husband leaves you ?

I guess it would have been easier for her to abort them.

[Fairy1]

The kid who was locked in the attic didn't belong to this woman, it's a completely different story.
I don't know if pride had anything to do with anything, but I read that there were problems with the pipes/plumbing, not that the bill wasn't paid.
That could happen to anyone. If you own, you might have to wait on a paycheck to be able to afford the repairs, if you rent, you have to wait on the landlord.
I'm going to look for that article.
We don't know if her family was willing to help her prior to this.
We don't know if there was food in the house or if the kids were malnourished.
When my kids say there's no food in the house, it means there's no snack food or nothing they can make themselves.
We don't know if she planned to go to the grocery store after work.
Not everybody has a fully stocked kitchen at all times. When I have to put in extra time at work, my fridge gets pretty empty, that doesn't mean my kids don't eat. That means that Tuesday night might be McD's, Wednesday KFC and Thursday Pizza Hut.
I'm sure the food police are on their way to my house now to charge me with nutritional neglect.
Kids under four couldn't make themselves bacon and eggs, but it doesn't mean they weren't in the fridge.
I just don't know. I've only heard one side of the story. I know that I haven't heard that the kids appeared abused or or malnourished.


What!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know where you saw that the child she locked up in the attic was not hers - but who the HE!! cares? Do you lock ANY children in your attic??? And if so, under what circumstances is that ok?

And we're not talking about what they were going to have for dinner when "mommy dearest" got home from work. Initial reports say THERE WAS NO EDIBLE FOOD in the house that day.

How many sides of the story do you need to hear??? What other side would actually be acceptable to you?

Sheesh.

[Fairy1]

What happens when you can take care of them when you have them, then you lose your job and your husband leaves you ?

I guess it would have been easier for her to abort them.

Then you GET HELP!

[CHICANA]

Oh FGS! WTH is wrong with people? What is that old saying? The devil you know is better than the one you don't....or something along those lines. Devils are devils! I can't even start on the foster "care" system.

Why, why, why are there so many people capable of harming children? I don't understand!!! I have NEVER come across a child - mine or otherwise - that I could hurt in any way.

I will NOT cut this mother a break - no matter what! Her children were obviously neglected and quite possibly abused. I don't care how much she was struggling! The maternal instinct is a powerful force and some women are missing that gene. IMO, this is one of them.

I haven't heard everything, so it's not obvious to me yet that they were neglected. I've seen nothing that points to them being abused. Intentionally inflicting physical abuse on a child is IMO way different than being poor and not being able to find or pay for decent childcare or getting behind on utility bills.

Watch a couple of the videos, they explain why I feel that absent illegal physical abuse, children should be with their families and if the main problem is financial, give them the $$ assistance for childcare and utilities.
To me, it doesn't make sense to take a child because they're parents are poor and then give them to someone who they pay every month to take care of them.


http://www.examiner.com/x-14537-Albany-CPS-and-Family-Court-Examiner~y2009m7d27-Cops--Child-Protective-Services-abuse-children-when-they-take-them-from-innocent-parents

[Fairy1]

I haven't heard everything, so it's not obvious to me yet that they were neglected. I've seen nothing that points to them being abused. Intentionally inflicting physical abuse on a child is IMO way different than being poor and not being able to find or pay for decent childcare or getting behind on utility bills.

Watch a couple of the videos, they explain why I feel that absent illegal physical abuse, children should be with their families and if the main problem is financial, give them the $$ assistance for childcare and utilities.
To me, it doesn't make sense to take a child because they're parents are poor and then give them to someone who they pay every month to take care of them.


http://www.examiner.com/x-14537-Albany-CPS-and-Family-Court-Examiner~y2009m7d27-Cops--Child-Protective-Services-abuse-children-when-they-take-them-from-innocent-parents

I suppose none of us have seen everything, but do we have to wait for something like this to happen to one of these innocent children before someone does something???

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-child-death1-2009aug01,0,294363.story?track=rss

[CHICANA]

Then you GET HELP!

How do you know she didn't ?
All I know is that it's reported the house was dirty and the kids were hungry, left alone and went to the neighbors asking for food.
I don't know what the mother did or didn't do before this happened.
The only thing that concerns me is that they were alone. Kids get hungry and houses get dirty.
People don't make it to the store and everybody eats Ramen noodles or McDonald's til they go.

Pipes break and you suffer as a family until they're fixed. If you're lucky you have family members to help you through the tough times. If not, you do the best you can.
If she didn't know her brother left them alone, I'm not going to assume that she abuses or neglects her kids.
She could be having a really bad week.
If the whole brother thing is true, I hope she kicks his a@@.

[CHICANA]

I suppose none of us have seen everything, but do we have to wait for something like this to happen to one of these innocent children before someone does something???

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-child-death1-2009aug01,0,294363.story?track=rss

There's a difference, there is nothing so far to indicate these kids were beaten.

You can't cure evil people who beat children to death.
You can fix poor.
I don't know if the mom usually has a different babysitter, lets assume she doesn't.
No word on whether she's an evil child abuser.
What are the issues and how are they resolved ?
She needs reliable childcare.
She needs to clean her house.
She needs food.
It would be nice if a church or members of the community would help out like in the good ol' days.
Sometimes I think mom's might be afraid of asking for help for fear of being reported to child welfare.
I just thought of my friend, she stays home with her kids (her twins have medical issues)and her husband works but he doesn't make much.
She gets food stamps and I know towards the end of the month, the food supply is dwindling. Her kids don't starve, but there aren't a lot of snack foods and they eat a lot of hot dogs, mac & cheese and ramen noodles the last week of the month.

[CHICANA]

What!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know where you saw that the child she locked up in the attic was not hers - but who the HE!! cares? Do you lock ANY children in your attic??? And if so, under what circumstances is that ok?

And we're not talking about what they were going to have for dinner when "mommy dearest" got home from work. Initial reports say THERE WAS NO EDIBLE FOOD in the house that day.

How many sides of the story do you need to hear??? What other side would actually be acceptable to you?

Sheesh.

What other side ?
You're giving a side to the story that doesn't even pertain to this case.
I at least know my sides.
I believe you're referring to a totally different case.
It's not the same mom, not the same kid, it's a totally different case.
They just happened to be referred to on the same link.
The mom who locked her kid in the attic lives in Massachusetts.
The kids I thought we were talking about live in Ohio.
Please provide a link to the article that shows that the mom of these four kids locked any of them in the attic.
There are enough accusations against her without adding false ones.

All I need are the facts.
Did she leave them with her brother ?
Were they physically abused ?
I know they were hungry, but were they underweight or malnourished ?
As long as they weren't covered in crap, I don't care how long it's been since they had a bath.
If they weren't malnourished or being starved, I don't care if there was much food in the house.
I don't know what day she goes shopping or if they were eating take out a lot because the plumbing was messed up. I rented a house 10 years ago and the plumbing in the kitchen jacked up and I couldn't get the landlord to fix it. We ended up moving shortly after, but we had take out all the time or ate at my mom's because we couldn't use the sink in the kitchen and I wasn't keen on doing dishes in the bathtub.

I could totally change my mind if I saw the inside of the house, but I haven't.

[txsvicki]

The mother also needs some mental help to find out why she made her body so accessible to some man giving birth every year for four years, but the daddy is obviously not around and not paying child support. How did this woman think she could ever pay for daycare for that many babies, and why didn't she think of that after the second child. No man is that reliable to just keep having baby after baby, not even the supposed brother who will either have to lie and risk charges or rat out his sister and risk losing all the kids.

[Boyz_Mum]

From the original story in the opening post, I couldn't (and still can't) draw a conclusion from what I read/viewed. I think I can safely say, the mother had a lack of good judgement IF she had her brother babysit and he didn't do the job. I can honestly say, if her brother wasn't in the picture (I don't know if that's fabricated) then she should be charged with neglect and child endangerment (or whatever else the state decides is proper).

There are assistance programs that could/should help this mother through difficult times. Water is a necessity. If I had to, I would have bathed my children with gallons of water purchased from the grocery store. I don't know that this woman didn't do that?

IMO, there hasn't been enough information to allow me to form an opinion. I do think it's best for the children to be with the grandparents until something can be done.

As far as the foster parents who left the children in the Disney World Resort and before that too? I find that disgusting. At this point, I am wondering if there really is a lesser of two evils? :mad:

[believe09]

Clearly there is other information out there if the police didn't charge her off the bat-I will take responsibility for writing a somewhat inflammatory comment when I first posted the story.

BUT-I am trying to picture making the decision to have someone sit for my children in a home without running water, a toilet blocked with feces and rotting non edible food as the only option.

If there were others available or other homes for that matter, I suspect I would have asked if the children could have been dropped off their where they had access to some of the basics such as plumbing and edible food....seeing as how the little ones were not responsible for themselves.

The only question in my mind right now is whether or not the brother was actually in the house when she left for work. And if he was where did he go that he chose not to take the kidlets as well?

If he was not there when she left for work, her decision was not only a poor one it was criminal since all of those children were too young to be latch-key. Beyond that, filthy, trash filled yada yada is always a problem when you have toddlers who are still at the age where they are likely to touch, pick up, investigate and put stuff in their mouths.

Good for them that they thought to pick berries and go to the neighbors. But how sad that they had to make that choice for themselves.

JMO.

[Boyz_Mum]

believe09, I didn't read your posts or any of the other posts as inflamatory. Heck, we all have different gut reactions when we read/view these stories. I'm not trying to defend the mom in this case, I just didn't read/view enough to know for sure the kids are continually neglected or if her brother left the kids alone, etc...

No children of these young ages should be left alone ever. :blowkiss:

[SewingDeb]

They had only lived there a month. I wonder what the former neighbors have to say about how she handled the children.

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

when I was in the shelter and couldn't afford to take care of my son I found someone who could My ex husband but in any case, a friend, go to a pastor, the state department and refuse to leave until someone can help you somehow, not leave him in filth with nothing to eat. period. it makes me sick to see people defending this. Even if it's only "poor" and can be fixed, until it is, it's completely selfish to subject a child to that kind of condition.

[CuriousTwo]

it makes me sick to see people defending this. Even if it's only "poor" and can be fixed, until it is, it's completely selfish to subject a child to that kind of condition.

That's part of what's wrong in our society today - so many who make excuses for why children are abused and neglected, and too few people take responsibility for doing what's right. It has nothing to do with economic status - this problem crosses all boundaries.

[Fairy1]

What other side ?
You're giving a side to the story that doesn't even pertain to this case.
I at least know my sides.
I believe you're referring to a totally different case.
It's not the same mom, not the same kid, it's a totally different case.
They just happened to be referred to on the same link.
The mom who locked her kid in the attic lives in Massachusetts.
The kids I thought we were talking about live in Ohio.
Please provide a link to the article that shows that the mom of these four kids locked any of them in the attic.
There are enough accusations against her without adding false ones.

All I need are the facts.
Did she leave them with her brother ?
Were they physically abused ?
I know they were hungry, but were they underweight or malnourished ?
As long as they weren't covered in crap, I don't care how long it's been since they had a bath.
If they weren't malnourished or being starved, I don't care if there was much food in the house.
I don't know what day she goes shopping or if they were eating take out a lot because the plumbing was messed up. I rented a house 10 years ago and the plumbing in the kitchen jacked up and I couldn't get the landlord to fix it. We ended up moving shortly after, but we had take out all the time or ate at my mom's because we couldn't use the sink in the kitchen and I wasn't keen on doing dishes in the bathtub.

I could totally change my mind if I saw the inside of the house, but I haven't.

CHICANA, you're absolutely right - I was confusing two different cases. Please accept my sincere apologies. I guess there are just too many similar cases right now for me to keep track of. That, coupled with the fact that in so many of them, CPS failed miserably in doing their jobs, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. I sure don't want to see that happen with these babies.

That being said, I still do not believe it's ever ok to leave such young children alone in a filthy home with no services and no food.

If it's true they had only been living there for a month, this is not a case of having fallen behind on paying her utilities. IMO, it indicates that none of the utilities were ever turned on OR she knowingly moved her babies into a "home" that was not fit for humans. Either way, it's just not ok IMO.

Guess we'll all have to wait and see how this unfolds. But I am not in the mood to see any more innocent children fall through the cracks.

[LaLaw2000]

There is NO excuse to leave four babies at home alone. NONE. I am shocked the amount of people trying to defend her. I am a single mom of three and, yes, we struggle, but we make it work.

No food? -- Get foodstamps!
No daycare? -- Get daycare assistance!
No water? -- Get assistance from United Way!

Without a doubt, this woman should be charged with child endangerment and neglect. Those babies need to be placed in a safe home. Thank the Lord they went out looking for food. Who knows how long this has been going on and how long it would have.

Well, you will not see me defending her in the least, YellowSubmarine. And I agree that she should be charged with child endangerment and neglect.

I also add that no matter how tired you are when you come home from work, it takes very little energy to take rotten food out of the refrigerator so your children would not get desperate, eat it, and get sick.

I am disgusted with this mother and strongly feel that there is more to this story than has been told.

[CHICANA]

CHICANA, you're absolutely right - I was confusing two different cases. Please accept my sincere apologies. I guess there are just too many similar cases right now for me to keep track of. That, coupled with the fact that in so many of them, CPS failed miserably in doing their jobs, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. I sure don't want to see that happen with these babies.

That being said, I still do not believe it's ever ok to leave such young children alone in a filthy home with no services and no food.

If it's true they had only been living there for a month, this is not a case of having fallen behind on paying her utilities. IMO, it indicates that none of the utilities were ever turned on OR she knowingly moved her babies into a "home" that was not fit for humans. Either way, it's just not ok IMO.

Guess we'll all have to wait and see how this unfolds. But I am not in the mood to see any more innocent children fall through the cracks.

Thanks. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me I was right, I might have enough for a happy meal. LOL
I thought they were the same at first also. I kind of obsess over these cases, and have learned that they can't always be taken at face value.
I don't know the circumstances around the lack of running water.
It could be something innocent and it might not have been a long term problem.
I don't know the house wasn't fit for humans.
If my pipes busted,I was single and I had to work and had four kids under four, I don't want to think about what my house could look like by the time I could get it fixed.
I don't think they're any safer in State Custody, so who is going to do something about it and what are they going to do ?

[Boyz_Mum]

I'm really curious about the plumbing issues. The outside of the home may look unkept, but after looking at the photos over and again, it looks like the house siding and windows have been redone, and the porch railing looks newer. I am wondering if the home was in the middle of a revamp and this woman moved in there before things were finished?

That doesn't excuse the children from being left alone and having no food and filth in the house (I still haven't seen photos of the inside).

I wish there were follow up stories for cases like this, it would be nice to know that the kids are being kept safely and it would be very nice to hear if this was one of those cases that turns out good (versus the stories we're getting used to hearing). JMO.

[CHICANA]

Well, you will not see me defending her in the least, YellowSubmarine. And I agree that she should be charged with child endangerment and neglect.

I also add that no matter how tired you are when you come home from work, it takes very little energy to take rotten food out of the refrigerator so your children would not get desperate, eat it, and get sick.

I am disgusted with this mother and strongly feel that there is more to this story than has been told.

Good point. The report didn't say they ate rotten food. They must not have been starving or they would have eaten whatever they found. Maybe their irresponsible uncle left while they were taking a nap to go pick up lunch, his car broke down and he couldn't get back. His sister/ their mother is kicking the kaka out of him right now, as I type this. Does it make the fact that they were alone ok ? Definitely not. But it doesn't make the mom a slimebag child abuser either.

[WholeLottaRosie]

This is horrible. Too bad the law can't brand her.

I'm not sure what to make of the living situation of the family in question here. The video on the the news channel showed a home that didn't look that bad from the outside (the home I saw had what looked like newish siding and windows- a beige or cream in color?) I saw trash outside and toys in deep grass (not nearly as deep of grass as I've seen around other homes). I didn't see the inside.

I'm not sure how it was determined that the children didn't bathe in a month, if you asked my kids "when did you last bathe", they could say, we never take a bath. If you asked them if they were hungry, they would say "we're starved!" They're older than the kids in question here, but at 2, 3, and 4, I couldn't guarantee what might come out of their mouths. Also, if a neighbor commented on the bathing of the kids, I'm not sure it's entirely believable. How would a neighbor know when they bathed last? There were days when my kids looked like they never bathed with only one days worth of dirt on them. (When they played, they played and got as dirty as humanly possible.)

Until the situation can be figured out for this family, I'm glad the kids are able to be with their grandparents. I do hope the grandparents are good with them. Of course the sitation deserves to be investigated and hopefully the mother can correct it.

Thanks CHICANA for helping me see another side of this story. :blowkiss:


I routinely go to the store on Thursdays. That is the day I have the car and I run errands then, have for years. When my daughter was 4, she loved nothing more than to call my mother on the phone.

One day, a Tuesday morning, we finished the last of her preferred cereal - we still had others, just not the most favorite. The next morning, she was mad that we didn't have the one she wanted. She then did a little tirade about I didn't have anything she liked. I told her to eat something else, and I would buy more of her favorites the next day. She ate something, now I can't recall - I fed her, don't want to imply I was just telling her she was on her own or something.

So imagine my surprise early afternoon, there is a knock at the door, and it is Granny. My bright child had called Granny, I must have been in the bathroom or something, and told her that we had nothing to eat in the house and that Mama was being very mean. Now, my mom knew this was not true, but, child was only grandchild, so she went out bought the foods she wanted, including cereal, some lunchables (I don't allow, she had at a cousin's house, and she realized Granny was going to be getting her something. She had 2 grocery bags of stuff! Oh, and I wasn't mean, just to her I suppose it seemed that way.

I was horrified, all I could think then is what if she told the wrong person that about no food and me being mean. My mom actually thought it was funny and a sign of my daughter's genius. She still has her Granny wrapped around her finger.

Not saying these kids were doing this, but, I thought I would share an example of kids misspeaking.

[CHICANA]

I routinely go to the store on Thursdays. That is the day I have the car and I run errands then, have for years. When my daughter was 4, she loved nothing more than to call my mother on the phone.

One day, a Tuesday morning, we finished the last of her preferred cereal - we still had others, just not the most favorite. The next morning, she was mad that we didn't have the one she wanted. She then did a little tirade about I didn't have anything she liked. I told her to eat something else, and I would buy more of her favorites the next day. She ate something, now I can't recall - I fed her, don't want to imply I was just telling her she was on her own or something.

So imagine my surprise early afternoon, there is a knock at the door, and it is Granny. My bright child had called Granny, I must have been in the bathroom or something, and told her that we had nothing to eat in the house and that Mama was being very mean. Now, my mom knew this was not true, but, child was only grandchild, so she went out bought the foods she wanted, including cereal, some lunchables (I don't allow, she had at a cousin's house, and she realized Granny was going to be getting her something. She had 2 grocery bags of stuff! Oh, and I wasn't mean, just to her I suppose it seemed that way.

I was horrified, all I could think then is what if she told the wrong person that about no food and me being mean. My mom actually thought it was funny and a sign of my daughter's genius. She still has her Granny wrapped around her finger.

Not saying these kids were doing this, but, I thought I would share an example of kids misspeaking.

IDK, in this day and age, running out of your child's favorite cereal might be considered child abuse. For shame.
Not too long ago, a man thought he was buying his kid a lemonade at a game or concert and it was actually a Mike's Hard Lemonade.
He had never bought it, figured it was expensive because at those events a coke costs $5 and he said it tasted like lemonade to him (haven't had one in ages, but they are pretty good). Security detained him, called CPS and his kid was removed temporarily from his custody.
I miss the good ol' days. He would have explained, everybody would have laughed and he would have learned that Mike's Hard Lemonade is not a child friendly drink. Instead he had to go to court and be treated like a child abuser.

[WholeLottaRosie]

IDK, in this day and age, running out of your child's favorite cereal might be considered child abuse. For shame.
Not too long ago, a man thought he was buying his kid a lemonade at a game or concert and it was actually a Mike's Hard Lemonade.
He had never bought it, figured it was expensive because at those events a coke costs $5 and he said it tasted like lemonade to him (haven't had one in ages, but they are pretty good). Security detained him, called CPS and his kid was removed temporarily from his custody.
I miss the good ol' days. He would have explained, everybody would have laughed and he would have learned that Mike's Hard Lemonade is not a child friendly drink. Instead he had to go to court and be treated like a child abuser.


According to my child it is, LOL.

Re the Mike's HL. I love that stuff. My favorite tipple. I could easily see mistaking it, if you weren't familiar with it. You really don't taste the alcohol. I suppose someone not much of drinker might not get the hard part.

[tekilla]

I routinely go to the store on Thursdays. That is the day I have the car and I run errands then, have for years. When my daughter was 4, she loved nothing more than to call my mother on the phone.

One day, a Tuesday morning, we finished the last of her preferred cereal - we still had others, just not the most favorite. The next morning, she was mad that we didn't have the one she wanted. She then did a little tirade about I didn't have anything she liked. I told her to eat something else, and I would buy more of her favorites the next day. She ate something, now I can't recall - I fed her, don't want to imply I was just telling her she was on her own or something.

So imagine my surprise early afternoon, there is a knock at the door, and it is Granny. My bright child had called Granny, I must have been in the bathroom or something, and told her that we had nothing to eat in the house and that Mama was being very mean. Now, my mom knew this was not true, but, child was only grandchild, so she went out bought the foods she wanted, including cereal, some lunchables (I don't allow, she had at a cousin's house, and she realized Granny was going to be getting her something. She had 2 grocery bags of stuff! Oh, and I wasn't mean, just to her I suppose it seemed that way.

I was horrified, all I could think then is what if she told the wrong person that about no food and me being mean. My mom actually thought it was funny and a sign of my daughter's genius. She still has her Granny wrapped around her finger.

Not saying these kids were doing this, but, I thought I would share an example of kids misspeaking.

My 9 year old GD calls me all the time telling me her mom hasn't fed her in a week. When in fact she just hasn't given her what she wanted and wants to come to my house to get it. And my GS will tell you it has been so long since he has had a bath that he can't remember when it was. But, he is so totally ocd about being dirty I am sure it hasn't been more than a couple hours at the most. Those 2 are really good at trying to make mom look bad so they can get their way with Gramma.

[Fairy1]

Ya'll - I think we all know that young kids can exaggerate. But the initial report here said there was nothing but spoiled food in the house and these kids were ALONE.

I will wait to hear more details, but I'm not going to minimize what has been reported so far. There are waaaaaaaaay too many babies being neglected and abused these days. It's just not much of a stretch for me to believe that's what was happening here.

My kids may have been pizzed at me for not having their favorite cereal or chips in the house, but they were never left alone or forced to eat berries off of bushes because they were starving.

[believe09]

I am with Fairy here-I can believe that the children do not have a well established sense of time, but there was no edible food in the house and the house contained much that was hazardous to the children. The children went to neighbors to be fed since they could not feed themselves and they were ALONE.

Thank God they did not wander on to a street or into a home of an SO.

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

At the very LEAST (and I mean LEAST) This woman has some MAJOR explaining to do about why those two children were left home alone.

[SewingDeb]

I believe it is four children...ages 4, 3, 2 & 1.

I watched the video with the article. It says the children have been placed with their grandmother in Ohio until their mother can get the house cleaned. They'll be right back with her so I hope she gets her act together and seeks financial assistance if needed.

[Boyz_Mum]

I believe it is four children...ages 4, 3, 2 & 1.

I watched the video with the article. It says the children have been placed with their grandmother in Ohio until their mother can get the house cleaned. They'll be right back with her so I hope she gets her act together and seeks financial assistance if needed.

I'm praying for the little ones and mom.