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Cubby
08-05-2009, 12:26 AM
Please continue here.

That last thread was getting a bit long, I'll go ahead and ask the mods to lock the last one.

Link to part 1.
Who was George Brody? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



Thanks! Cubby

Dr. Doogie
08-05-2009, 02:01 AM
Thanks, Cubby.

SideKick
08-13-2009, 12:08 PM
I am trying to go thru the last hour Anna spent with her family at the farm, the folks visiting, the school bus, Anna going out the back door, playing in the front lawn ...........just in time to be snatched away. It seems impossible, coincidental to me that with all those visitors there that day, that was THE day, someone was in the neighbourhood spying on the farm waiting for Anna. Whoever did this, was pretty brave to take her then get her in a car without any noise whatsoever.

I know we've gone thru the scenerio a million times. IF and only IF Anna is not with us how in heck did they hide her? Where? I find that thought mind boggling. For this reason alone, I continue to believe in my heart that Anna was given to someone one of the George's knew, either a patient of GW's, an acquaintance of GB's? The problem is WHO would just accept a child at age five? Anna could talk, understand alot at that age.

Of course the other option is a complete stranger abduction but it seems to farfetched considering the Box from Hell notes...

Gosh, I've googled 'found boots in CA', found child's levi's in HMB... I am trying to open up a topic perhaps we've missed somehow.

Best to all ~

Dr. Doogie
08-14-2009, 02:55 AM
One of the reasons that Annasmom and I distributed flyers to the current residents of Purissima Creek Road is to examine this possibility. Someone may have found some article of clothing of Anna's years later and not known of Anna's disappearance or not made the connection. No one came forward with any information.

(BTW: In your search, you may find that a skull washed up on a HMB beach several years later, but I have discussed this with the SMCSO and it is not Anna.)

Cubby
08-14-2009, 04:26 AM
For this reason alone, I continue to believe in my heart that Anna was given to someone one of the George's knew, either a patient of GW's, an acquaintance of GB's? The problem is WHO would just accept a child at age five? Anna could talk, understand alot at that age.

~


Respectfully snipped. I've given this scenario a great deal of thought. The two Georges were pretty convincing. GB was a 'pro' at conning people, and convincing them of whatever odd thoughts or beliefs. I think it would have been quite easy for GB to prey upon both GW, and 'someone' to convince them Anna belonged in a better home. Thus convincing someone to take her at age 5. Had they believed that 'story' the person who 'accepted' Anna, could have brainwashed her to believe that story as well. It always leaves me wondering what GB's beliefs were about a child being raised without their biological father. What were GB's thoughts on the family living on the bus for the time they did? IIRC, the contact GW had to send the child support was Anna's maternal grandmother during the family's travels, if they were aware of the family traveling.

I have another thought, but it belongs on the general thread so will add it there.

SarahR
08-14-2009, 05:50 AM
The woman from Georges past (Margaret), has her grave been located and checked do you know? I just cant shake the feeling that maybe Anna's buried there, maybe a sacrafice or in the black magic sense maybe to bring magaret back. I know its probably a ridiculous thought and i pray everytime i have it that Anna is still with us and has had a happy life, but when reading what you guys have written on these two men this thought just wont go away.

SideKick
08-14-2009, 09:51 AM
One of the reasons that Annasmom and I distributed flyers to the current residents of Purissima Creek Road is to examine this possibility. Someone may have found some article of clothing of Anna's years later and not known of Anna's disappearance or not made the connection. No one came forward with any information.

(BTW: In your search, you may find that a skull washed up on a HMB beach several years later, but I have discussed this with the SMCSO and it is not Anna.)

Doogie, thanks, perhaps another shot at reminding the community what happened will spark that one person to come forward. It doesn't mean you're efforts didn't affect anyone at the time, if anyone in that area did recall anything, with another flyer distribution or similar idea, they may think ... 'OH YEAH'! ok, I do remember ...bla bla bla. Just a thought but I don't know what can be done. Any ideas? I would really lo
ve to see something else happen in this regard.

SideKick

Pink Panther
09-05-2009, 06:08 PM
I've read and read and read here but I still don't understand how George Waters became so smitten by GB or when it happened or how Annasmom realized it or how it began to influence their lives while Anna was still present? Just a brief summary would do please for someone who is just catching up and trying to understand!

: )

Annasmom
09-05-2009, 08:26 PM
I've read and read and read here but I still don't understand how George Waters became so smitten by GB or when it happened or how Annasmom realized it or how it began to influence their lives while Anna was still present? Just a brief summary would do please for someone who is just catching up and trying to understand!

: ) Pink Panther, the summary at www.searchingforanna.com is about the best I can do. There were psychological issues in all this which I am not really qualified to diagnose.

Pink Panther
09-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Pink Panther, the summary at www.searchingforanna.com (http://www.searchingforanna.com) is about the best I can do. There were psychological issues in all this which I am not really qualified to diagnose.
Thanks so much for answering Annasmom. I will keep reading!

Pink Panther
09-06-2009, 12:49 PM
I have been reading a lot here and will continue to do so. I have a few questions that I have been unable to find answers for...Please forgive me if they have already been asked.

Did the police ever question GW and GB? If so, what was the result? Did they both have alibis for the time-period during which Anna was taken? Did they find out anything about WHO GB was? Didn't the mere fact that GB doesn't/didn't have a SS number raise their suspicions???

Also - Is there a thread on Margaret? A specific link as to where to find more information on her? Do we know how she and GW met, under what circumstances they came to California, etc...

I'm sure that this information has been covered and don't want to take up too much time but would really appreciate some help with these questions.

Annasmom
09-08-2009, 02:08 AM
I have been reading a lot here and will continue to do so. I have a few questions that I have been unable to find answers for...Please forgive me if they have already been asked.

Did the police ever question GW and GB? If so, what was the result? Did they both have alibis for the time-period during which Anna was taken? Did they find out anything about WHO GB was? Didn't the mere fact that GB doesn't/didn't have a SS number raise their suspicions???

Also - Is there a thread on Margaret? A specific link as to where to find more information on her? Do we know how she and GW met, under what circumstances they came to California, etc...

I'm sure that this information has been covered and don't want to take up too much time but would really appreciate some help with these questions. Pink Panther, GW was questioned by the police and had an alibi for the time Anna disappeared. GB was not questioned; the police had no reason to believe he was connected to the case. I thought there was a thread on Margaret, but I don't find it. Down at the bottom of the thread topics, however, there is one which says "When did George meet Margaret" or something like that, and there are three pages...so that may have the information you want.

Thank you for your good questions.

Pink Panther
09-08-2009, 06:32 PM
Did GB ever talk about where he was from? Or places that he had travelled to? Annasmom, have you never had an intuition about his heritage? I think you've said that you thought he was American but given his age, it's likely he had emigrated from somewhere.

I'm not sure why but my instincts hit on Hungary, former Yugoslavia/Serbia, Austria and Germany. These locations show up a lot in links while trying to research him and various bits and pieces that GW wrote about.

Just trying to pick your brain.

Am I out to lunch here and simply re-hashing old territory? It's hard to tell 'cause I seem to be all alone! (Just you and me.)

: (

Annasmom
09-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Did GB ever talk about where he was from? Or places that he had travelled to? Annasmom, have you never had an intuition about his heritage? I think you've said that you thought he was American but given his age, it's likely he had emigrated from somewhere.

I'm not sure why but my instincts hit on Hungary, former Yugoslavia/Serbia, Austria and Germany. These locations show up a lot in links while trying to research him and various bits and pieces that GW wrote about.

Just trying to pick your brain.

Am I out to lunch here and simply re-hashing old territory? It's hard to tell 'cause I seem to be all alone! (Just you and me.)

: ( I know what you mean, but actually there are WSers reading this, even if they're not posting at the moment. Your instinct about origins would certainly be borne out by all the correspondence with "Seka" in Yugoslavia, and GB's written references to the Danube. However, I had no reason whatsoever to believe that he was anything other than American-born, and I do not believe he had actually traveled outside the U.S.

Pink Panther
09-09-2009, 07:21 PM
Regarding your inquiries about a possible passport for Anna...Did you ever get any information? Why wouldn't you be privy to this kind of information - being her mother??? I'm quite confused about this. Didn't you and GW have joint custody? If so, why wouldn't you be allowed access to such important information given that you daughter is missing?

Forgive my anger in my questioning. It's not aimed at you but at whatever bureaucratic hiccup could create such a scenario!

Pink Panther
09-13-2009, 07:34 AM
I found this listing on the Charley Project site. I know it's a long shot but the story of this fellows disappearance is so odd that it caught my attention and made me think of GB:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/whitfield_andrew.html

SherlockJr
09-13-2009, 10:19 AM
I found this listing on the Charley Project site. I know it's a long shot but the story of this fellows disappearance is so odd that it caught my attention and made me think of GB:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/whitfield_andrew.html

We did look at this possibility a few years ago, but have nothing concrete to go with.

Cubby
09-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Regarding your inquiries about a possible passport for Anna...Did you ever get any information? Why wouldn't you be privy to this kind of information - being her mother??? I'm quite confused about this. Didn't you and GW have joint custody? If so, why wouldn't you be allowed access to such important information given that you daughter is missing?

Forgive my anger in my questioning. It's not aimed at you but at whatever bureaucratic hiccup could create such a scenario!

The passport has been a frustrating issue here. Apparently because Anna is now of adult age, Annasmom can not access that information herself due to privacy acts. Which makes no sense whatsoever - since the child wwent missing...... LE, CAN simply send a letter on their letterhead requesting this information. Apparently Annasmom, had sent a handwritten letter to the detective currently assigned to Anna's case requesting he do so. As far as I know he never replied to her- whether he did or not.

Perhaps with the renewed interest in cold cases in the bay area. Det. Giletti (sp?) would take 10 minutes of his time and compose a letter requesting this information. I realize LE is short staffed, and they have current cases to work on, but FGS this case is still open, even if 'cold'! Perhaps Annasmom or Dr. Doogie can even draft the letter, send it to the detective via a word file so all he has to do is OPEN IT, proof it, print it and send it off! Heck, I'll even pop for the stamps! ;)

Please forgive my frustration with what I perceive as lack of action to do something so relatively simple by LE for Anna's case. It doesn't take long to do this..... and should have been 'knocked off the list of things for LE to do a long time ago!

Pink Panther
09-13-2009, 10:57 AM
We did look at this possibility a few years ago, but have nothing concrete to go with.

I tried to do some research around it and couldn't find much either. Was this looked into on this board??? If so, would you be able to direct me to a link?

I did find one article that was published on his disappearance in the America Weekly Los Angeles here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Weekly-LOS-ANGELES-GIRL-Hemingway-HENRY-CLIVE_W0QQitemZ230375852128QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 090909?IMSfp=TL090909174002r18291

Scroll down and you will see an article titled:

"What Really Happened to Vanishing Mr. Whitfield?" There is also a picture of him there.

Pink Panther
09-13-2009, 07:31 PM
Anybody on this forum who has a subscription for ancestry.com? Perhaps they could do some searches for ACW, his wife Elizabeth Halsey Whitfield, or the fellow that was seen to board a ship with ACW - Frank Steinman???

Hello...hello...hello...Is there anybody out there? (Pink Floyd - I'm a pink as well and can relate. hehehe)

raindrops300
09-13-2009, 11:23 PM
Anybody on this forum who has a subscription for ancestry.com? Perhaps they could do some searches for ACW, his wife Elizabeth Halsey Whitfield, or the fellow that was seen to board a ship with ACW - Frank Steinman???

Hello...hello...hello...Is there anybody out there? (Pink Floyd - I'm a pink as well and can relate. hehehe)

Hi,
Some discussion of ACWhitfield can be found at post # 68, dated 8-17-2007 on the first thread with this title (now closed). That post references some previous discussion. I'm not good at posting links but I found it by doing a search of the threads in this forum. This forum dates back to at least 2005 and I'm not if the older threads are archived or where they are.
The book "Searching For Anna" is a great tool and has some answers to the information you are seeking.
I wanted to be sure and reply so you would know people are reading your input. I don't post much, but continually keep up with this thread. Following Anna's story on the net is what brought me to WS.

Pink Panther
09-14-2009, 06:53 AM
Hi,
Some discussion of ACWhitfield can be found at post # 68, dated 8-17-2007 on the first thread with this title (now closed). That post references some previous discussion. I'm not good at posting links but I found it by doing a search of the threads in this forum. This forum dates back to at least 2005 and I'm not if the older threads are archived or where they are.
The book "Searching For Anna" is a great tool and has some answers to the information you are seeking.
I wanted to be sure and reply so you would know people are reading your input. I don't post much, but continually keep up with this thread. Following Anna's story on the net is what brought me to WS.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction raindrops! I thought that I'd read almost everything but I must have skimmed over that part. It was actually comforting to see that others had looked into the same possibility and I guess it wasn't completely ruled out.

:)

OzzieMum
10-04-2009, 02:38 AM
Hi All,

If this info has been looked at before, I apoligise (I don't remenber seeing it anywhere). I don't know if it's anything but I decided to post it anyway. I would rather post now and find out it's nothing than to not post and find out months down the track that it was.

I'm hoping that some of you more experienced researchers can look into it further.

This is from the New York passenger list 1820-1957

S S Cedric

Name: Chaie Brodic Brody
Arrival Date: 29 Nov 1908
Ship Name: Cedric
Search Ship Database: View the Cedric in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 5
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_1172
Page Number: 59

I have the image (from Ancestry) but I don't know how to put it in here. Sorry, still a bit of a newbe.

I think the name Chaie could actually be Charlie/Charles.

If GB came from England, it might explain the way he spoke.

Let me know what you think.

OzzieMum
10-04-2009, 02:53 AM
There is also another Chaie Brody on the same ship (don't think it's the same one) he is 48 years old, maybe the father of the one I posted above.

smile22
10-04-2009, 09:22 AM
could russell also have been brody? or was that angle looked at already?

raf
10-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Hi All,

If this info has been looked at before, I apoligise (I don't remenber seeing it anywhere). I don't know if it's anything but I decided to post it anyway. I would rather post now and find out it's nothing than to not post and find out months down the track that it was.

I'm hoping that some of you more experienced researchers can look into it further.

This is from the New York passenger list 1820-1957

S S Cedric

Name: Chaie Brodic Brody
Arrival Date: 29 Nov 1908
Ship Name: Cedric
Search Ship Database: View the Cedric in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 5
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_1172
Page Number: 59

I have the image (from Ancestry) but I don't know how to put it in here. Sorry, still a bit of a newbe.

I think the name Chaie could actually be Charlie/Charles.

If GB came from England, it might explain the way he spoke.

Let me know what you think.
Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

Annasmom
10-04-2009, 01:40 PM
Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf
Apparently this ship always sailed from Liverpool to New York. Brody would have been a child at the time, but then a child is listed. Interesting!

OzzieMum
10-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

Hi Raf,

You're very good at this sort of research, are you able to look into this a bit further.

I find it interesting beause it has been suggested that the name Brodic was changed to Brody and the child has both names listed. The one that appears to be the father was born in Russia (probably were the name Brodic came from).

I would really appreciate it if you have the time to do further research on this.

Pink Panther
10-05-2009, 03:32 AM
Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

This listing is of people who have been detained for some reason. Probably for further questioning before being allowed into the US? I'm not sure that the "children" listing there is indicating that this person is a child. It could mean that he has children. Note the date is November 29, 1908. I have found another listing (Manifest for the ship's arrival) for a male, 48 years old, who arrived a few days prior (November 20, 1908) on the same ship, same name (Chaie Brody).

http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7488&path=1908.11.29.Cedric.41&sid=&gskw=Chaie+Brody&cr=1

Scroll down to the bottom. It's the second last name on this list.

I'm not sure if this link will work; if it doesn't can you please help out with this one too Raf! : )

raf
10-05-2009, 05:09 AM
Hi Raf,

You're very good at this sort of research, are you able to look into this a bit further.

I find it interesting beause it has been suggested that the name Brodic was changed to Brody and the child has both names listed. The one that appears to be the father was born in Russia (probably were the name Brodic came from).

I would really appreciate it if you have the time to do further research on this.
Hi Ozziemum,
I found the original ship's manifest of Chaie Brodic/Brody seeming that he joining at Isidor Brodic/Brody son in Brooklyn, NY:
pag 1 http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410780_brodicchaie1.gif
pag 2 http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410781_brodicchaie2.gif
some suggestion?
All the best,
raf

raf
10-05-2009, 05:16 AM
This listing is of people who have been detained for some reason. Probably for further questioning before being allowed into the US? I'm not sure that the "children" listing there is indicating that this person is a child. It could mean that he has children. Note the date is November 29, 1908. I have found another listing (Manifest for the ship's arrival) for a male, 48 years old, who arrived a few days prior (November 20, 1908) on the same ship, same name (Chaie Brody).

http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7488&path=1908.11.29.Cedric.41&sid=&gskw=Chaie+Brody&cr=1

Scroll down to the bottom. It's the second last name on this list.

I'm not sure if this link will work; if it doesn't can you please help out with this one too Raf! : )
Hi Pink,
sorry, I posted the same ship's manifest...
However I believe that this person no adding more to our search... it are so much Brody/Brodie/Brodzic/Brodic/ etc... and we cannot say who is the right GB that we are searching for... it is so hard... also because is much probable the GB was a false name.....
raf

Pink Panther
10-05-2009, 08:39 AM
Hi Pink,
sorry, I posted the same ship's manifest...
However I believe that this person no adding more to our search... it are so much Brody/Brodie/Brodzic/Brodic/ etc... and we cannot say who is the right GB that we are searching for... it is so hard... also because is much probable the GB was a false name.....
raf
I agree. In addition the information we have on this individual indicates that he was 48 years old in 1908; definitely too old to be this Brody.

OzzieMum
11-29-2009, 03:38 AM
I've been wondering if GB was actually in the Marines in WW2 and that's where he meet MK. The correct MK was a nurse in the Marines wasn't she? He did say that he worked on ships at some stage, didn't he?

Maybe he went AWOL and that's when he assumed the name GB. It makes sense that if someone went AWOL they would change their identity to avoid the possibility of court martial. This would also explain why GB didn't have a SSN and was very secretive about his past and would also account for his paranoid behaviour. He may also have been a draft evader, however this would not explain how he met MK.

He also appears to have lied about his age, born 1923? which would have made him too young to be drafted in 1939. If his birth year was in fact correct, why wouldn't he have been drafted in 1941 when he turned 18 unless he had a medical condition, which he didn't appear to have. Is that correct Annasmom?

We know that GW tried to obtain conscientious objector status, probably at GB's insistence/influence, which would also fit with GB going AWOL, his belief in war maybe? He was probably also worried that GW would be killed in Vietnam and he would loose his meal ticket.

I have being trying to find lists of servicemen that went AWOL during WW2 but haven't had any luck so far. Does anyone have any idea if these records are available anywhere?

If anyone thinks my idea is a possibility, feel free to go searching.

Annasmom
11-29-2009, 05:18 PM
I've been wondering if GB was actually in the Marines in WW2 and that's where he meet MK. The correct MK was a nurse in the Marines wasn't she? He did say that he worked on ships at some stage, didn't he?

Maybe he went AWOL and that's when he assumed the name GB. It makes sense that if someone went AWOL they would change their identity to avoid the possibility of court martial. This would also explain why GB didn't have a SSN and was very secretive about his past and would also account for his paranoid behaviour. He may also have been a draft evader, however this would not explain how he met MK.

He also appears to have lied about his age, born 1923? which would have made him too young to be drafted in 1939. If his birth year was in fact correct, why wouldn't he have been drafted in 1941 when he turned 18 unless he had a medical condition, which he didn't appear to have. Is that correct Annasmom?

We know that GW tried to obtain conscientious objector status, probably at GB's insistence/influence, which would also fit with GB going AWOL, his belief in war maybe? He was probably also worried that GW would be killed in Vietnam and he would loose his meal ticket.

I have being trying to find lists of servicemen that went AWOL during WW2 but haven't had any luck so far. Does anyone have any idea if these records are available anywhere?

If anyone thinks my idea is a possibility, feel free to go searching.
I thought Margaret was a Navy nurse. GW's efforts to attain conscientious objector status began before GB became such an influence in his life, but certainly GB advised him on this. It is possible that GB went AWOL from some branch of the service (though I believe he was too old to have been in WWII) but if he changed his name after that, I don't know where we'd begin to look. I have even wondered if he was under some kind of witness protection program, it is so unusual to have absolutely no facts available on someone.

OzzieMum
11-30-2009, 04:14 AM
I thought Margaret was a Navy nurse. GW's efforts to attain conscientious objector status began before GB became such an influence in his life, but certainly GB advised him on this. It is possible that GB went AWOL from some branch of the service (though I believe he was too old to have been in WWII) but if he changed his name after that, I don't know where we'd begin to look. I have even wondered if he was under some kind of witness protection program, it is so unusual to have absolutely no facts available on someone.

If he was in witness protection, then they did their job extremely well back then, to be able to cover up his true identity to the point that we can find nothing to indicate who he is. Surely, now that he is dead, LE would be able to find out if he was in fact in witness protection.

I personally, am very interested in the AWOL idea. There is a MK that was a Navy nurse (found records on Footnote) and also a MK that was involved in some way with a Russell DeVor. On further reading on here, I also found that Raf has come across these records. I need to re-read the thread on GB and MK to find out if Raf ruled out this Russell DeVore as the (Russell) boyfriend of Mk that moved with her and advised her family that she had died.

The thing I do find strange is that the DeVore family seemed to be a fairly prominent family, yet there doesn't appear to be any info on them on the internet. Is GB actually Russell DeVore? If so, I'm sure a family with money could give their son a new identity and hide him if he went AWOL.

There has got to be some really big reason why GB changed his identity.

If MK served on a ship, it would be really interesting to see the crew lists.

Raf, can you clarify if/how you ruled out this Russell.

raf
11-30-2009, 07:18 AM
Hi,
seeming, by articles, that Russel DeVor was only a friend of MK; he never moved in California, because I read a article abt a marriage of a daughter of a grandaughter( now I remember no very well) around the 1970s... also MK's relatives no recognized GB picture as Russell boyfriend of MK... so most probably Russell boyfriend of MK, well.. it is no Russell DeVor, but only another Russell.... this is my opinion.....
abt GB know just some little info.... we know that he lived in Oakland, CA for some year, and from nov 1936 ; he appearing not in 1934; at the address of 1936, well in 1934 was resident other persons... the addresses in Oakland was always of Hotels addresses... we know that the birthyear most probably is the 1907, because I found a article very interesting abt this person... but no more infos....
I believe that:
- because he was so much secretive
- because he lived always in the Hotels ( Oakland and San Francisco) and never had a home
-because he appearing with GB name in 1936 and nothing came up (by deep search) in previous years with GB name and all probable records found are abt persons with normal life
well my opinion is that:
- GB was a false name and maybe in some period time of life, previous of 1936, he had some big problem, and for that changed the name and becoming GB...
- GB was born in the States or immigrated in the USA when very young
- GB maybe was a nazi lover
- GB was a swindler saying so many lies
- GB was interested only to money
- GB planned the Anna abduction so GW having more money for GB insurance
- GB was not a gay
- GB was not a pedophile
- GB was not a killer
- GB most probably.. had a christian education when he was young; when adult he refused this christian education and becoming a esoteric amateur, self-taught; but with many gaps abt that..
- GB loved the book quotations... the music... but always as a simple amateur; he had not a real culture by schools... in all seeming to me a autodidact, and this meanings a person no happy of own condition, and with foolish ambition
- GB planned, in some way, of to have another new identity after GW death, and after insurance payment especially
- GB planned after that of to leave the States and to go in some part of world, maybe in Italy
-maybe GB met MK in Letterman hospital; that is possible
- GB had the power of to devastate the lifes of all persons that he met in the life that let us say: this man is our GB; we have only the addresses in Oakland and after in San Francisco; and we have the pictures; but always under GB name

currently we have no many clues for to search the real identity of GB; I enlarged the search abt the probable real surname starting with "Bro/Bra-Bor/Bar.. etc", but no luck; and abt Anna, well I believe, after so much search, that Anna was entrusted at some family, maybe a family knew from GB or GW.. I think not that Anna died.. it could be interesting to know the final destination of GW flights by TWA ...

all the best,
raf

Annasmom
11-30-2009, 10:13 PM
Hi,

I believe that:
- because he was so much secretive
- because he lived always in the Hotels ( Oakland and San Francisco) and never had a home
-because he appearing with GB name in 1936 and nothing came up (by deep search) in previous years with GB name and all probable records found are abt persons with normal life
well my opinion is that:
- GB was a false name and maybe in some period time of life, previous of 1936, he had some big problem, and for that changed the name and becoming GB...
- GB was born in the States or immigrated in the USA when very young
- GB maybe was a nazi lover
- GB was a swindler saying so many lies
- GB was interested only to money
- GB planned the Anna abduction so GW having more money for GB insurance
- GB was not a gay
- GB was not a pedophile
- GB was not a killer
- GB most probably.. had a christian education when he was young; when adult he refused this christian education and becoming a esoteric amateur, self-taught; but with many gaps abt that..
- GB loved the book quotations... the music... but always as a simple amateur; he had not a real culture by schools... in all seeming to me a autodidact, and this meanings a person no happy of own condition, and with foolish ambition
- GB planned, in some way, of to have another new identity after GW death, and after insurance payment especially
- GB planned after that of to leave the States and to go in some part of world, maybe in Italy
-maybe GB met MK in Letterman hospital; that is possible
- GB had the power of to devastate the lifes of all persons that he met in the life that let us say: this man is our GB; we have only the addresses in Oakland and after in San Francisco; and we have the pictures; but always under GB name

currently we have no many clues for to search the real identity of GB; I enlarged the search abt the probable real surname starting with "Bro/Bra-Bor/Bar.. etc", but no luck; and abt Anna, well I believe, after so much search, that Anna was entrusted at some family, maybe a family knew from GB or GW.. I think not that Anna died.. it could be interesting to know the final destination of GW flights by TWA ...

all the best,
raf
Raf, you have painted an amazing portrait of George Brody. I agree with everything you wrote. The business about being a Nazi lover is disturbing, but it ties in with those letters GW wrote and also with his method of leaving this earth. What a sad, sad business.

Dr. Doogie
12-01-2009, 02:18 AM
Does anyone know how readily available potassium cyanide is? Is this something a physian would have access to or perhaps some other profession that may use the chemical?

raf
12-01-2009, 05:42 AM
Hi Annasmom,
I believe that a man who advises to an other man, like killing with a poison used by nazis in WWII, well this man sure accepted the nazi's ideals; because there are many ways in order to commit a suicide, but why to choose just a nazi poison? GW was a doctor, and sure knew the poisons also, almost superficially, but why GB adviced for a nazi poison...? well, because he had some feeling with nazis...
it is just my opinion....
all the best,
raf

one_hooah_wife
12-01-2009, 11:27 AM
Does anyone know how readily available potassium cyanide is? Is this something a physian would have access to or perhaps some other profession that may use the chemical?

I think that cyanide is used in electroplating so I assume that there is a legitimate market for it. But interestingly, there is another way that GW may have acquired it ... there is a drug used commonly in both the OR and ICU, called Nipride or Nitroprusside. It is a very potent vasodilator. When administering it one would know to cover the IV infusion bag with a dark opaque cover because exposure to sunlight causes a chemical reaction with the drug that releases cyanide molecules. Since there is no abuse potential for this drug, it is not controlled. It is not a stealth poison, so I have never heard of anyone using it nefariously since anyone that knew enough to understand what this drug could do would also know that it would show elevated cyanide levels on autopsy. I guess due to both of these factors it is easily obtained, if you are or if you know, the right people. Now, I graduated from nursing school in 1993 and it was considered an old standard by then. There may even be other medical uses for cyanide containing compounds. I do know that it is a terribly painful way to die as you litterally deprive your body of oxygen at the cellular level ... imagine having a heart attack, stroke and severe spasms in every muscle in your body all while you feel as if you are suffocating .... probably the reason Hitler took cyanide with a bullet back!

Yea ... I'm so happy to contribute!! I have been quiet on this board but this case is always on my mind and I run down some peice of information almost everyday.

Annasmom
12-01-2009, 03:22 PM
There is a hat shop in San Francisco, Goorin Brothers (Goorin.com) which has operated since 1895. The hotel clerk who observed the emptying-out of GB's room(s) noted many hat boxes, and you will recall that GB is wearing a fedora in most of the photos. I wonder if the shop has records going back to the 1970s. Take a look at the website and tell me what you think.

Cubby
12-01-2009, 05:50 PM
There is a hat shop in San Francisco, Goorin Brothers (Goorin.com) which has operated since 1895. The hotel clerk who observed the emptying-out of GB's room(s) noted many hat boxes, and you will recall that GB is wearing a fedora in most of the photos. I wonder if the shop has records going back to the 1970s. Take a look at the website and tell me what you think.


It's worth looking into, but I'm not sure what exactly we'd ask. Can you share what idea's you have Annasmom?

here is the direct link to the hat shop.
http://www.goorin.com/

Annasmom
12-01-2009, 08:11 PM
It's worth looking into, but I'm not sure what exactly we'd ask. Can you share what idea's you have Annasmom?

here is the direct link to the hat shop.
http://www.goorin.com/
I thought I'd send them a photo of Brody in a hat, say he had left unclaimed money in Oakland and no relatives we could find, and see if anybody recognized the picture. The present owner is fourth generation, so his father might well have sold hats to GB. However, I haven't yet looked to see if they have an e-mail address.

Cubby
12-01-2009, 10:42 PM
Great idea Annasmom! If you look at the site under frequently asked questions there are email addresses listed under press, for press inquiries, and sales under sales inquiries. No specific name to address, just sales@ and press@ the company name. I'd try those, and if the owners names are listed I am sure they have an email with there name preceding the company name. Maybe an email and a phone call to get a specific name and email addy would help. i'd send a few so all depts are covered. At least that increases the chances of someone reading and responding.

rideforfun
12-02-2009, 01:53 PM
Question -- do we have anything of George Brody's where DNA could be obtained. I'm wondering if the DNA expert/investigator could give us more direction on George Brody based on a DNA sample. She seems to be able to determine ethnic orgin and clusters of people with similiar DNA. That could really help our search as we have so many amazing researches here.

Annasmom
12-03-2009, 01:39 PM
Great idea Annasmom! If you look at the site under frequently asked questions there are email addresses listed under press, for press inquiries, and sales under sales inquiries. No specific name to address, just sales@ and press@ the company name. I'd try those, and if the owners names are listed I am sure they have an email with there name preceding the company name. Maybe an email and a phone call to get a specific name and email addy would help. i'd send a few so all depts are covered. At least that increases the chances of someone reading and responding.
I need some help with this. Does anybody have time right now? I was thinking of sending that picture of Brody wearing a hat, but I would have to scout it up in the BFH and right now I'm pretty overwhelmed with rehearsals for Christmas.

SideKick
12-03-2009, 03:49 PM
I need some help with this. Does anybody have time right now? I was thinking of sending that picture of Brody wearing a hat, but I would have to scout it up in the BFH and right now I'm pretty overwhelmed with rehearsals for Christmas.

~ All done Annasmom, I shot them off an email and attached the hat photo with GB, explained a wee bit as well, so the are aware of the 'why' we are asking. They may not have records that go back that far, but hoping an elder can take a look at the photo.

Best! SK

Annasmom
12-03-2009, 04:22 PM
~ All done Annasmom, I shot them off an email and attached the hat photo with GB, explained a wee bit as well, so the are aware of the 'why' we are asking. They may not have records that go back that far, but hoping an elder can take a look at the photo.

Best! SK
Thank you so much, SK. Doogie sent me a picture of Brody in a Fedora and I did send it and a note to pr@goorin.com, saying I was a genealogical researcher. I'm trying to put a portable keyboard, stand, rack, etc. together here for a performance tomorrow night and wish I weren't such a mechanical idiot. Then I have to figure out how it works. Then I have to practice. 'Tis the season!

OzzieMum
12-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Hi,
seeming, by articles, that Russel DeVor was only a friend of MK; he never moved in California, because I read a article abt a marriage of a daughter of a grandaughter( now I remember no very well) around the 1970s... also MK's relatives no recognized GB picture as Russell boyfriend of MK... so most probably Russell boyfriend of MK, well.. it is no Russell DeVor, but only another Russell.... this is my opinion.....
abt GB know just some little info.... we know that he lived in Oakland, CA for some year, and from nov 1936 ; he appearing not in 1934; at the address of 1936, well in 1934 was resident other persons... the addresses in Oakland was always of Hotels addresses... we know that the birthyear most probably is the 1907, because I found a article very interesting abt this person... but no more infos....
I believe that:
- because he was so much secretive
- because he lived always in the Hotels ( Oakland and San Francisco) and never had a home
-because he appearing with GB name in 1936 and nothing came up (by deep search) in previous years with GB name and all probable records found are abt persons with normal life
well my opinion is that:
- GB was a false name and maybe in some period time of life, previous of 1936, he had some big problem, and for that changed the name and becoming GB...
- GB was born in the States or immigrated in the USA when very young
- GB maybe was a nazi lover
- GB was a swindler saying so many lies
- GB was interested only to money
- GB planned the Anna abduction so GW having more money for GB insurance
- GB was not a gay
- GB was not a pedophile
- GB was not a killer
- GB most probably.. had a christian education when he was young; when adult he refused this christian education and becoming a esoteric amateur, self-taught; but with many gaps abt that..
- GB loved the book quotations... the music... but always as a simple amateur; he had not a real culture by schools... in all seeming to me a autodidact, and this meanings a person no happy of own condition, and with foolish ambition
- GB planned, in some way, of to have another new identity after GW death, and after insurance payment especially
- GB planned after that of to leave the States and to go in some part of world, maybe in Italy
-maybe GB met MK in Letterman hospital; that is possible
- GB had the power of to devastate the lifes of all persons that he met in the life that let us say: this man is our GB; we have only the addresses in Oakland and after in San Francisco; and we have the pictures; but always under GB name

currently we have no many clues for to search the real identity of GB; I enlarged the search abt the probable real surname starting with "Bro/Bra-Bor/Bar.. etc", but no luck; and abt Anna, well I believe, after so much search, that Anna was entrusted at some family, maybe a family knew from GB or GW.. I think not that Anna died.. it could be interesting to know the final destination of GW flights by TWA ...

all the best,
raf

Hi Raf,

Thanks for your amazing post. Maybe he was of German decent and that's why he had a love of the Nazi's.

I totally agree that GB was not his real name. He never did anything that would require ID or a SSN. He didn't own property, he lived in hotels rather than renting, he used a photo for the insurance policies and I don't remember reading anywhere that he drove a car, which would require a licence (Annasmom, can you confirm that he did/didn't drive?).

GB definitely had something to hide or to hide from. I have been trying to think of all the reasons that someone would change their indentity.

Criminal past/trouble with LE
Going AWOL from the armed forces
Draft evasion
To avoid paying child support/alimony payments
Hiding from relatives

Raf, I was wondering if you have come across any GB's that died around the time that this GB surfaced.

I would also like to know if there is any way that we can search for SNN's that suddenly became inactive with no evidence of the person dying.

This man is driving me nuts.

Annasmom
12-03-2009, 05:49 PM
Hi Raf,

Thanks for your amazing post. Maybe he was of German decent and that's why he had a love of the Nazi's.

I totally agree that GB was not his real name. He never did anything that would require ID or a SSN. He didn't own property, he lived in hotels rather than renting, he used a photo for the insurance policies and I don't remember reading anywhere that he drove a car, which would require a licence (Annasmom, can you confirm that he did/didn't drive?).

GB definitely had something to hide or to hide from. I have been trying to think of all the reasons that someone would change their indentity.

Criminal past/trouble with LE
Going AWOL from the armed forces
Draft evasion
To avoid paying child support/alimony payments
Hiding from relatives

Raf, I was wondering if you have come across any GB's that died around the time that this GB surfaced.

I would also like to know if there is any way that we can search for SNN's that suddenly became inactive with no evidence of the person dying.

This man is driving me nuts.

Add one more reason for all the secrecy: Classic clinical symptom of Paranoia.

Annasmom
12-03-2009, 07:06 PM
Question -- do we have anything of George Brody's where DNA could be obtained. I'm wondering if the DNA expert/investigator could give us more direction on George Brody based on a DNA sample. She seems to be able to determine ethnic orgin and clusters of people with similiar DNA. That could really help our search as we have so many amazing researches here.

RFF, sorry I got distracted and didn't answer your question. I can't think of anything which would have his DNA on it. There's that letter in his handwriting, but it is so old and has been handled by so many people that there's no way there could be anything on it. It's too bad...back then they didn't even know about DNA.

one_hooah_wife
12-04-2009, 01:53 AM
My DH surprised me yesterday with a very interesting magazine... he said "this screams Pamela" ... and it did! It was the new LIFE: "The Greatest Unsolved Mysteries of All Time." I was reading a really interesting story about a cadet that went missing from West Point in 1950, Richard Colvin Cox. I really got chills as the story unfolded and revealed the only real person of interest, "a mysterious man named George." There is a wiki article on the young cadet -- who rather unfortunately went by the name Dick Cox. Anyway, below is a link to the entire story that LIFE ran originally, in 1952. The article is really long and detailed. A couple of conflicting descriptions of George were given. There is no real reason for me to believe that this story has anything to do with GB ... but it did make my stomach flip ... so I guess my gut is telling me to pay attention!

The article (below) also goes to some depth about what it takes --even back then -- to assume a new identity and gives interesting statistics and anecdotes regarding the choice of names and occupations. Another weird coincidence re the 1952 LIFE story is that in the middle of the story there is an exerpt from an article in an upcoming issue about Marshall Tito, whose name I've come across many times searching various keywords related to Anna's case -- as he was the former leader of Yuogoslavia. Again, not related directly ... just sort of a Twighlight Zone moment!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=9FUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA158&dq=Richard%20Colvin%20Cox&as_pt=MAGAZINES&pg=PA161#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Colvin%20Cox&f=false

I also have a theory that I have been working on and I will share in another post ... as I do not want it to be confused with the cadet mystery. I wonder, Annasmom ... do you know of any other sport-type activities GB may have been involved in as a youth ... other than boxing?

raf
12-04-2009, 06:13 AM
My DH surprised me yesterday with a very interesting magazine... he said "this screams Pamela" ... and it did! It was the new LIFE: "The Greatest Unsolved Mysteries of All Time." I was reading a really interesting story about a cadet that went missing from West Point in 1950, Richard Colvin Cox. I really got chills as the story unfolded and revealed the only real person of interest, "a mysterious man named George." There is a wiki article on the young cadet -- who rather unfortunately went by the name Dick Cox. Anyway, below is a link to the entire story that LIFE ran originally, in 1952. The article is really long and detailed. A couple of conflicting descriptions of George were given. There is no real reason for me to believe that this story has anything to do with GB ... but it did make my stomach flip ... so I guess my gut is telling me to pay attention!

The article (below) also goes to some depth about what it takes --even back then -- to assume a new identity and gives interesting statistics and anecdotes regarding the choice of names and occupations. Another weird coincidence re the 1952 LIFE story is that in the middle of the story there is an exerpt from an article in an upcoming issue about Marshall Tito, whose name I've come across many times searching various keywords related to Anna's case -- as he was the former leader of Yuogoslavia. Again, not related directly ... just sort of a Twighlight Zone moment!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=9FUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA158&dq=Richard%20Colvin%20Cox&as_pt=MAGAZINES&pg=PA161#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Colvin%20Cox&f=false

I also have a theory that I have been working on and I will share in another post ... as I do not want it to be confused with the cadet mystery. I wonder, Annasmom ... do you know of any other sport-type activities GB may have been involved in as a youth ... other than boxing?
Hi, in 1961, another cadet missing; and by this article is mentioned Dick Cox (Richard Colvin Cox) missing also; well, it is wrote a brief description of mysterious George and seeming not our GB:

http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i440580_Cox1.jpg
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i440580_Cox1.jpg
raf

one_hooah_wife
12-04-2009, 10:57 AM
Hi, in 1961, another cadet missing; and by this article is mentioned Dick Cox (Richard Colvin Cox) missing also; well, it is wrote a brief description of mysterious George and seeming not our GB:

(snipped)
raf

I agree that it is probably not our George but for what it is worth , the original LIFE article that I linked has two very different descriptions of "mysterious George" ... one is the same as your article, the other given is of a man well under 6 ft. with dark hair and features. It also says that some described him as speaking with a German accent.

Annasmom
12-04-2009, 08:04 PM
[QUOTE=one_hooah_wife
I also have a theory that I have been working on and I will share in another post ... as I do not want it to be confused with the cadet mystery. I wonder, Annasmom ... do you know of any other sport-type activities GB may have been involved in as a youth ... other than boxing?[/QUOTE]

The picture of the cadet stopped me, but he would have been born in 1929 and that makes him too young for Brody. I don't know about "George". As for sports, I really think the only sport GB was involved with was listening to boxing matches on the radio (and later on TV).

raf
12-05-2009, 02:19 AM
I agree that it is probably not our George but for what it is worth , the original LIFE article that I linked has two very different descriptions of "mysterious George" ... one is the same as your article, the other given is of a man well under 6 ft. with dark hair and features. It also says that some described him as speaking with a German accent.
yes I understand your concern... but the mysterious "George " cannot be the our GB, also for other data, especially because the mysterious "George " served in WWII, in Germany, with Cox, instead GB was in Oakland, CA from 1936 until 1944...
the problem is that we cannot find the enlistment of GB; almost no under GB name... really the database is no complete to 100%, also it is possible that he never enlisted... and if so, why... GB appearing in Oakland in 1936, and previously of 1936, the life of this man is a big mystery... a big black hole...
raf

Cubby
12-09-2009, 12:17 PM
I don't know why I didn't think of this before. The Polish name for George is Adalbert. (strange translation, imo). Those of you with ancestry memberships, raf... can you check and see if you can find any info that might match our GB under the first name Adalbert?
http://polandpoland.com/common_polish_names.html


thanks!

ETA: Jerzy is also the first name George in Polish

raf
12-09-2009, 01:20 PM
Hi Cubby, I found that Adalbert or Albert was used from polish people that had as first name Wojciech; Gyorgy hungarian is the equivalent of George... however the only Adalbert that I found:
Name: Christopher George Adalbert Brodie
Father: James Brodie
Birth: 28 Jun 1870 - Peel, Ontario Canada

and cannot be our GB..
all the best,
raf

Skully
12-27-2009, 07:10 PM
How did they know that GB didn't have a SSN? I only ask because I have recently come across a man who is now living with a close relative of mine and he is off the radar so to speak. Needless to say, I am concerned about my relative. His reason is Taxes, and old CC debt. So he has arranged his life so that he doesn't use a SSN. He has no DL, but drives. No current tags. His last address is a parking lot. He lived in a mobil home, and paid cash, month to month. He has an internet job, doesn't pay taxes, again. But my point is, he does have a SSN, he just doesn't use it.

Another thought about GB, if he belonged to any religious group, he could have been passed off as a teacher or leader of the church. Many of them, take cash donations, or get people to leave estates to them, (cults). He may have convinced Margret to do this, for this reason. He also would avoid taxes and SSN, and any kind of money trails. He was hiding from something......

Also the picture you have of him in the book, with the hat, it reminds me of the book jacket photos.

SideKick
12-27-2009, 07:57 PM
How did they know that GB didn't have a SSN? I only ask because I have recently come across a man who is now living with a close relative of mine and he is off the radar so to speak. Needless to say, I am concerned about my relative. His reason is Taxes, and old CC debt. So he has arranged his life so that he doesn't use a SSN. He has no DL, but drives. No current tags. His last address is a parking lot. He lived in a mobil home, and paid cash, month to month. He has an internet job, doesn't pay taxes, again. But my point is, he does have a SSN, he just doesn't use it.

Another thought about GB, if he belonged to any religious group, he could have been passed off as a teacher or leader of the church. Many of them, take cash donations, or get people to leave estates to them, (cults). He may have convinced Margret to do this, for this reason. He also would avoid taxes and SSN, and any kind of money trails. He was hiding from something......


Also the picture you have of him in the book, with the hat, it reminds me of the book jacket photos.

Hey Bern,

Good points. I believe the group checked George Brody's name against SSN and his possible age as critieria and didn't come with a match. There has been tons of searches on GB, but perhaps we need another check.

As far as a religous group, this is a thought which has struck many a WebSleuth, heehee...he certainly came across as a cult type of guy or something in a seck for sure. He was most def. hiding something, that is the mystery of this man. :-) thanks so much for you ideas, they are indeed valid.

SK

OzzieMum
01-02-2010, 02:14 AM
While researching the Wanek's, I decided to check out the man named Frank Zitka who was living with Evelyn's family in 1930. I found Frank Zitka in ancestry and he was married to an Anna Wanek. Frank is listed in several family trees and I thought I would have a look to see if there were any Brodie's in any of the trees. I didn't find any Brodie's but in one of the trees there is the surname Brodt.

I went looking for the name Brodt and found something very interesting in Footnote. There is an FBI case file on a George Brodt who happened to be rooming in the Tuxedo or Tunedo Hotel in Salt Lake City. When the detectives got to the hotel the clerk told them the Brodt had taken off the week before and hadn't returned.

This case file is dated 1918 and even more interesting, George Brodt was suspected of "German activities".

This may not be GB but everything fits. Living in a hotel, GB's interest in Hitler and this happening in the early 1900's. The case file does not have a DOB for this man.

Being chased by the FBI would certainly be a good reason to change your name a "fly under the radar".

Is anyone able to check for SSN's under the name George Brodt?

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to check this guy out further?

Cubby
01-02-2010, 02:39 AM
Does the case file list an age of the man?

I think the George Brodt you found might be a little too old to be our GB as we think our GB was born about 1905, that would make him a young teen in 1918. It is still worth pursuing because we don't really know GB's birth year.

Here is the link to the SSDI which lists SS#'s for those listed.

http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi

only two George Brodts listed.

ETA: I hope raf catches this post... she's been able to find some great info... but I think she posted she looked/searched under names starting with 'bro'. I wonder if she has ran across this GB and his FBI file.

Skully
01-02-2010, 12:11 PM
Hey Bern,

Good points. I believe the group checked George Brody's name against SSN and his possible age as critieria and didn't come with a match. There has been tons of searches on GB, but perhaps we need another check.

As far as a religous group, this is a thought which has struck many a WebSleuth, heehee...he certainly came across as a cult type of guy or something in a seck for sure. He was most def. hiding something, that is the mystery of this man. :-) thanks so much for you ideas, they are indeed valid.

SK

Thanks SK,

As I sleuth this other person in my post, I find things that could be reasons for Brody to hide also. The tax thing is big. If you get a Federal Tax Lien against you, anytime you use your SNN your pay is attached to pay back the debt. You can't have a driver License or they can take the car if you own it. You can't have a home, or it too is up for grabs if you own it. So this person I am researching has stopped using his SSN, drives a car not registered to him, uses different plates, no legal tags, no address of his own, lives with other people, and of late I have discovered a changed middle initial in his name so other things don't come up when I do a name search, but I took out the initial and stuff came up. George could have done these things to hide who he is.

I bet he has a SNN but stopped using it, by getting others to support him, or put their name on accounts, or he could have had an account over seas. That is what my person is doing. There is no name attached to the money trail only a number on the account.

I lived in PA for most of my life, Pittsburgh. That photo of him, looks familiar but I can't place it. I am working on getting software to "tag" photos on the internet. It will pull up any photos that are the same of similar in facial features.

Also there is a advertising you can buy called "friend blaster" it spams everyone on face book. I think it is around $15 to do. Maybe someone could check into it and her story and age progression photo could be sent to everyone on face book.....

Skully
01-02-2010, 12:31 PM
I don't know if this has been looked at, but the photo of GB, did the FBI or anyone look to see where that portrait was taken? Maybe a water mark on the back? It reminds me of the old Russel Studio photos for book jackets.

raf
01-03-2010, 07:21 AM
Does the case file list an age of the man?

I think the George Brodt you found might be a little too old to be our GB as we think our GB was born about 1905, that would make him a young teen in 1918. It is still worth pursuing because we don't really know GB's birth year.

Here is the link to the SSDI which lists SS#'s for those listed.

http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi

only two George Brodts listed.

ETA: I hope raf catches this post... she's been able to find some great info... but I think she posted she looked/searched under names starting with 'bro'. I wonder if she has ran across this GB and his FBI file.
Hi Cubby,
I searched also by Brodt surname and no helpful results...
Ditto for Brodish surname, my last search before of Holyday season...
all the best,
raf

OzzieMum
01-03-2010, 07:34 AM
Hi Cubby,
I searched also by Brodt surname and no helpful results...
Ditto for Brodish surname, my last search before of Holyday season...
all the best,
raf

Hi raf,

Did you come across this George Brodt in your search and if so, were you able to find any more details on him. Were you able to rule him out?

raf
01-03-2010, 11:58 AM
Hi raf,

Did you come across this George Brodt in your search and if so, were you able to find any more details on him. Were you able to rule him out?
Hi, starting from the fact that our GB was born around 1906 or so, well the George Brodt matching for birthyear is:
- one of Ohio ( George Brodt or George E Brodt; listed with and without "E")lived and died in same town: Birth: 5 Apr 1904
Death: Jan 1972 - Hamilton, Butler, Ohio, United States of America

-another (George W Brodt/Bradt) born in Oklahoma around 1904, was until 1930 in Patterson, Woods, Oklahoma; no more details
the other matching no for birthyear..
all the best,
raf

OzzieMum
01-04-2010, 05:44 AM
Hi, starting from the fact that our GB was born around 1906 or so, well the George Brodt matching for birthyear is:
- one of Ohio ( George Brodt or George E Brodt; listed with and without "E")lived and died in same town: Birth: 5 Apr 1904
Death: Jan 1972 - Hamilton, Butler, Ohio, United States of America

-another (George W Brodt/Bradt) born in Oklahoma around 1904, was until 1930 in Patterson, Woods, Oklahoma; no more details
the other matching no for birthyear..
all the best,
raf

Call it a gut feeling, but i just can't let this go until he can be ruled out, and my reasons are:

1) We really don't know GB's true year of birth.

2) GB died in 1983 and IF he was born in 1905/06 he would have been 78/77,
he looked quite a bit older than that to me. (my Father in law is 80 and
doesn't look as old as GB did).

3) If GB was born even as late/early as 1900 (and his birth year could even
have been a couple of years earlier), he would still only be 83/85 when
he died (which would fit better with the pic of him) and he would have
been 18/20 when the FBI case file is dated. He would also be at draft age
(what better way of getting out of the draft than aligning yourself with
Hitler).

4) This George Brodt lived in a Hotel (same as GB did)

5) This George Brodt was being investigated for "German activities". (GB had
an BIG interest in Hitler).

6) This George Brodt disappeared from from Salt Lake City in 1918 and I can't
find any other records of him in SLC and all the other George Brodt's I can
find have birth and death records. No other records for a George Brodt in
SLC. He just seems to have disappeared.

No stone unturned. Until I can rule this guy out, I will keep looking at him.

If someone can definitely rule this George Brodt out, then please let me know.

If anyone wants to help look into him, please let me know also.

Annasmom
01-04-2010, 11:19 AM
I don't know if this has been looked at, but the photo of GB, did the FBI or anyone look to see where that portrait was taken? Maybe a water mark on the back? It reminds me of the old Russel Studio photos for book jackets.
We did actually find the photography studio and it was in San Francisco. I forget where this information is posted, but a picture made by the same studio came up on eBay, and that was how we made the connection.

Skully
01-04-2010, 04:18 PM
We did actually find the photography studio and it was in San Francisco. I forget where this information is posted, but a picture made by the same studio came up on eBay, and that was how we made the connection.

Sorry if you have already discussed it. I wondered why he would do the photo? Was it for a book jacket, or maybe a lecture or something such as that? May be a clue as to what he was into and who he knew. Seems a bit narcissistic to do a portrait like this for a photo album no one would see. Just curious, I guess.

Annasmom
01-04-2010, 06:55 PM
Sorry if you have already discussed it. I wondered why he would do the photo? Was it for a book jacket, or maybe a lecture or something such as that? May be a clue as to what he was into and who he knew. Seems a bit narcissistic to do a portrait like this for a photo album no one would see. Just curious, I guess. Narcissistic is probably the keyword. Or perhaps Margaret asked him to have it made. I'm quite sure he never wrote a book or gave a lecture to more than one potential follower at a time.

OzzieMum
01-05-2010, 05:50 AM
Call it a gut feeling, but i just can't let this go until he can be ruled out, and my reasons are:

1) We really don't know GB's true year of birth.

2) GB died in 1983 and IF he was born in 1905/06 he would have been 78/77,
he looked quite a bit older than that to me. (my Father in law is 80 and
doesn't look as old as GB did).

3) If GB was born even as late/early as 1900 (and his birth year could even
have been a couple of years earlier), he would still only be 83/85 when
he died (which would fit better with the pic of him) and he would have
been 18/20 when the FBI case file is dated. He would also be at draft age
(what better way of getting out of the draft than aligning yourself with
Hitler).

4) This George Brodt lived in a Hotel (same as GB did)

5) This George Brodt was being investigated for "German activities". (GB had
an BIG interest in Hitler).

6) This George Brodt disappeared from from Salt Lake City in 1918 and I can't
find any other records of him in SLC and all the other George Brodt's I can
find have birth and death records. No other records for a George Brodt in
SLC. He just seems to have disappeared.

No stone unturned. Until I can rule this guy out, I will keep looking at him.

If someone can definitely rule this George Brodt out, then please let me know.

If anyone wants to help look into him, please let me know also.

Hi Raf,

Can you please tell me if you have or have not definitely ruled this man out. I' am not getting a great deal of feed back here.

Please let me know.

Cubby
01-05-2010, 11:07 AM
Hi, starting from the fact that our GB was born around 1906 or so, well the George Brodt matching for birthyear is:
- one of Ohio ( George Brodt or George E Brodt; listed with and without "E")lived and died in same town: Birth: 5 Apr 1904
Death: Jan 1972 - Hamilton, Butler, Ohio, United States of America

-another (George W Brodt/Bradt) born in Oklahoma around 1904, was until 1930 in Patterson, Woods, Oklahoma; no more details
the other matching no for birthyear..
all the best,
raf


my bold. Ozziemum, I think raf meant the birth year of your brodt is too early for our GB. Way back, and I can't recall where it is posted, raf found an article which we are pretty sure is our GB, but she couldn't trace it to a later or earlier date. It's just an earlier date than we had traced backwards.

raf, do you happen to recall where that article is posted? can we link it to bring that post current? Or can someone find it? IIRC, brody either punched someone or got punched... is my memory correct on that article?

thanks!

OzzieMum
01-05-2010, 04:33 PM
my bold. Ozziemum, I think raf meant the birth year of your brodt is too early for our GB. Way back, and I can't recall where it is posted, raf found an article which we are pretty sure is our GB, but she couldn't trace it to a later or earlier date. It's just an earlier date than we had traced backwards.

raf, do you happen to recall where that article is posted? can we link it to bring that post current? Or can someone find it? IIRC, brody either punched someone or got punched... is my memory correct on that article?

thanks!

Hi Cubby,

I remember the article, I think it is in part 1 of the GB thread. If my memory serves correctly, there was also another article about a car accident, but I don't think it could be established if that was our GB.

Also from memory, that GB doesn't show up in any census records until 1930 and I think that is were the estimated birth year came from (I could be wrong on that).

I guess my point is, that if GB changed his name (which I have no doubt he did) then why would he not change his year of birth (which I also wouldn't be surprised about. He appears to have been a pretty vain man).

I will re-read the GB threads and re-check the George Brodt's and see what I can find.

raf
01-06-2010, 05:09 AM
Hi Cubby,

I remember the article, I think it is in part 1 of the GB thread. If my memory serves correctly, there was also another article about a car accident, but I don't think it could be established if that was our GB.

Also from memory, that GB doesn't show up in any census records until 1930 and I think that is were the estimated birth year came from (I could be wrong on that).

I guess my point is, that if GB changed his name (which I have no doubt he did) then why would he not change his year of birth (which I also wouldn't be surprised about. He appears to have been a pretty vain man).

I will re-read the GB threads and re-check the George Brodt's and see what I can find.
Hi,
I understand what you say...
-in the article abt George Brody car accident, well this a George Brody, married at a Margaret, coming from Ohio, and they lived a normal life, it is not our GB... this GB lived also in San Francisco, and some address found in SF directory are referred to this man; but is not our GB.. only same name, and a wife Margaret... for that a little confusion...
- the GB found in the Oakland Tribune article of 1941, most probably is OUR GB... the age matching second the opinion of Annasmom and of other persons that knew the real GB.. this GB ( probable our GB) was 36 in 1941, for that the birthyear could be 1905/6...
here the article:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447818_forPete.jpg
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447818_forPete.jpg

all the best,
raf

raf
01-06-2010, 05:29 AM
Hi Raf,

Can you please tell me if you have or have not definitely ruled this man out. I' am not getting a great deal of feed back here.

Please let me know.
My dear,
I cannot find nothing abt this George Brodt deseappeared from a Salt Lake City Hotel in 1918... you wrote:
The case file does not have a DOB for this man.


I have found nobody abt a George Brodt in Salt Lake City prior of 1918... and it are so many persons with this name, but without knowing the birthyear and birthplace is a bit hard... if the FBI case file have no the DOB of this man, it is very hard .... but because( just a suggestion) this George Brodt having some problem with FBI, meaning that was a adult man, maybe around 30/40 old...
what I found in Salt Lake City


World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Geo Harry Broady
Name: Geo Harry Broady
County: Salt Lake
State: Utah
Birthplace: Utah
Birth Date: 24 Dec 1891
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1983887
DraftBoard: 1

Tall size, hazel eyes, brown hairs... and for that matching not, because we are searching for a little guy withe blue eyes
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447819_geoHarryBroady.jpg
I cannot find nobody George Brodt record helpful and matching with your finding of FBI case...
If you have more details, please let us know.
All the best,
raf

SherlockJr
01-06-2010, 08:43 AM
It seems to me that I've been gone a lifetime. Sorry to have been away for so long. Some of you may have been aware I've been taking care of my husband's aunt who has lived with us for almost 2 yrs. She has passed away last week and I'm almost finished wrapping up her affairs.

In some spare time I've had this week, I've been looking back at Russell and have found a name of a man who lived with him in the early 1940's. The name is Clifford G. Loew. Nothing found in directories after 1946. He was listed on ship manifest in 1937 departing Los Angeles. However a death certificate from NY is reported in July 1964. Could he went missing and years later the family reported him dead?

Skully
01-06-2010, 09:36 AM
I found a very lengthily family history on line, with a George Brodt b. 1816. He is one of numerous child in the line. It is in the Descendant of Bernhart Mueller. The family comes from Germany and this history is quite long. I don't see any other George Brodt in the line. The family eventually is living in PA. I don't know all the names you would be looking for in this family tree, but if you are interested in reading this, I will copy and past it. Not sure of the link. It is quite long and brings the history up to 2003. I found it by google 1970 books + George Brodt.

SherlockJr
01-06-2010, 10:54 AM
It's worth looking into, but I'm not sure what exactly we'd ask. Can you share what idea's you have Annasmom?

here is the direct link to the hat shop.
http://www.goorin.com/


I thought I'd send them a photo of Brody in a hat, say he had left unclaimed money in Oakland and no relatives we could find, and see if anybody recognized the picture. The present owner is fourth generation, so his father might well have sold hats to GB. However, I haven't yet looked to see if they have an e-mail address.


I need some help with this. Does anybody have time right now? I was thinking of sending that picture of Brody wearing a hat, but I would have to scout it up in the BFH and right now I'm pretty overwhelmed with rehearsals for Christmas.


~ All done Annasmom, I shot them off an email and attached the hat photo with GB, explained a wee bit as well, so the are aware of the 'why' we are asking. They may not have records that go back that far, but hoping an elder can take a look at the photo.

Best! SK

This was a great idea! Any word back from your e-mail?

Cubby
01-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Sherlock,

I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your dh's Aunt. We will keep your family in our prayers.

I've wondered where you've been. Welcome back.

:blowkiss:

Cubby
01-06-2010, 11:57 AM
Hi,
I understand what you say...
-in the article abt George Brody car accident, well this a George Brody, married at a Margaret, coming from Ohio, and they lived a normal life, it is not our GB... this GB lived also in San Francisco, and some address found in SF directory are referred to this man; but is not our GB.. only same name, and a wife Margaret... for that a little confusion...
- the GB found in the Oakland Tribune article of 1941, most probably is OUR GB... the age matching second the opinion of Annasmom and of other persons that knew the real GB.. this GB ( probable our GB) was 36 in 1941, for that the birthyear could be 1905/6...
here the article:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447818_forPete.jpg
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447818_forPete.jpg

all the best,
raf

I had not thought of this before, but is there any way to see if we can get a copy of the police report regarding the above incident raf found and linked? It would be interesting to know if there is any additional information regarding this GB within that police report, if there is a way to still find it, despite the defendent being found not guilty. Does anyone know if this is possible?

thanks!

SideKick
01-06-2010, 12:34 PM
This was a great idea! Any word back from your e-mail?

Hey SherlockJr!

The company emailed me back saying they do not have old records and/or the records cannot be located. I then attached a photo of Brody with the hat on... before Xmas, I have not received another reply from them since the first reply.

Cubby
01-06-2010, 01:19 PM
Sidekick, Now that the holidays are over, why not shoot off an email or make a call asking if they recognize the photo? It wouldn't hurt. Thanks!

SherlockJr
01-06-2010, 01:26 PM
Sidekick, Now that the holidays are over, why not shoot off an email or make a call asking if they recognize the photo? It wouldn't hurt. Thanks!

Cubby, SK is not in the states here. If she wants to send another e-mail that would be fine, if not, I don't mind making the phone call.

Skully
01-06-2010, 01:51 PM
Hi,
I understand what you say...
-in the article abt George Brody car accident, well this a George Brody, married at a Margaret, coming from Ohio, and they lived a normal life, it is not our GB... this GB lived also in San Francisco, and some address found in SF directory are referred to this man; but is not our GB.. only same name, and a wife Margaret... for that a little confusion...
- the GB found in the Oakland Tribune article of 1941, most probably is OUR GB... the age matching second the opinion of Annasmom and of other persons that knew the real GB.. this GB ( probable our GB) was 36 in 1941, for that the birthyear could be 1905/6...
here the article:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447818_forPete.jpg
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i447818_forPete.jpg

all the best,
raf

Hi Raf,

thanks for the article, do you know what this was about? Is a Picket, someone who is picketing outside this man's shop? I will see if there is a way to get the report, don't know if they keep them this long, but I will see if it is possible. May take a day or two, but let me see.

SideKick
01-06-2010, 01:55 PM
Sidekick, Now that the holidays are over, why not shoot off an email or make a call asking if they recognize the photo? It wouldn't hurt. Thanks!

Hi Guys,

What came to mind over the holidays was, the generation working there now, are probably people in their 20's/30's... selling hats! We have a similar store here in XYZ... :leaf2: and all the staff are young students/and a bit older enjoying their fashion education/work enviro.

My first email and their answer:

Hello Goorin Hats,

I have a question in regards to old records you may have from the sixties and seventies. Would you by chance have any old sales records from that time, I am helping a search for a man who wore Fedoras frequently and question if you have old records of that time. A man by the name of George Brody would have purchased his hats from you from that time period. Thanks in advance and look forward to hearing from you! Nancy.

Goorin Hats Answer:

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:38:30 -0800
> From: goorinbros@rocketmail.com
> Subject: Re: [General] Records
>> CC: jsilva@goorin.com

Hello Nancy,
I am not able to obtain this information, I apologize for the inconvenience.
Happy holidays,
Brandon

My answer:

Thank you very much for your reply.

I understand you are not able to obtain the info, does that mean the information is all gone? all records don't exist? or, is there an elder who can look at the attached photo just to see if he/she recognizes this person? This person lived in The Tenderloin District of SF in the 60's and 70's and may have purchased his hats from Goorin's. We only need someone who used to work at the main store on Mission St. to see if anyone who worked there in the past recognizes him.

Now, I really don't understand the answer, to me, it is not clear. Not able to obtain. What can this mean? The records are still intacted however, this guy cannot obtain them? Or.. ? Are they not there at all?

A phone call to the company may be helpful. Hopefully someone could put you in touch with an older worker....

raf
01-06-2010, 01:55 PM
I had not thought of this before, but is there any way to see if we can get a copy of the police report regarding the above incident raf found and linked? It would be interesting to know if there is any additional information regarding this GB within that police report, if there is a way to still find it, despite the defendent being found not guilty. Does anyone know if this is possible?

thanks!
already searched for that.. a my friend, in Las Vegas, private detective, asked abt that in right way...
-reply: needing of a copy of his Driver’s License and more info to identify the defendant in the battery case involving John Sgroe and G. Brody.
-my friend reply: the man is deceased so obtaining a copy of his Driver’s License is not possible and gave them all the Identifying information they would need to perform the search.

second contact: ditto

another my friend wrote at Oakland Library asking if they have some other article abt this fact; negative reply...

so I know not where to search... the 1940 census will be available only in 2012 on ancestry.com... and only by this census, maybe, it could be possible to know more abt GB in Oakland....
raf

raf
01-06-2010, 01:59 PM
Hi Raf,

thanks for the article, do you know what this was about? Is a Picket, someone who is picketing outside this man's shop? I will see if there is a way to get the report, don't know if they keep them this long, but I will see if it is possible. May take a day or two, but let me see.
Hi Bern,
I know no more, only by my suggestion as a well Annasmom and Dr Doogie and other here suggestions, that he can be our guy
raf

Skully
01-06-2010, 02:02 PM
http://www.enter.net/~slabar/docs/desc6272.txt

Raf,

I just went back to this site and I found that the family Brodt, was also Broad, and Brode...... You may want to read a bit of this family tree and see if it connects anything. I printed it out and it is 77 pages long, so that is why I haven't brought it into the forum.

Bern

Skully
01-06-2010, 03:32 PM
Here is the referrance to Brodt;

Maia "Barbara" Brod, was the mother of 15 children, 10 with her first husband, Paul Brodt, who were; Bernhard, Mary, Frederick, Conrad, Margaret, Michael, Catherine, Anna Rosina, Jacob, and Susanna. And five more with her second husband Wm. Gruvr, who were John, Daniel, Elizabeth, William and Maria Barbara. History Data of the Brod - Brode - Broad and Brodt Families In the U.S.A. 1740 - 1952

Looks like the surname could be spelled a number of different ways and still be the same family.

Maybe the males that would carry the father's name of Brodt could be researched to see if there were any "George" names. He may have just decided to use Brode and spell it with a "Y". Many times it was a clerical error that was never fixed and the spelling stuck.

From what I can gather this family was from Williams Twp., Northampton, PA.

SideKick
01-06-2010, 03:45 PM
Bringing over from another thread: Thanks to Raf's work:
Who was George Brody? - Page 27 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Post 670


"A physician at San Francisco General Hospital says that as of Aug. 19, 1966, George Brody was visiting someone in Ward 34 named M. M. Kukoda, as well as a patient named Jessie Evans, 88 Sixth Street, Delta Hotel. Dr. Love was Kukoda’s physician. George Waters was an intern in charge of Kukoda and reported on her case to Brody, who had power of attorney for Kukoda. Physician said Brody was aged 55-60 at that time, was heavy-set, with grey hair."

I recall discussing whether or not Jessie was looked into at all? Why was Brody visiting Jesse? :waitasec: Uhmm.. Love to find out how old this J. E. would have been in 1966. * Note she lived in a hotel! :banghead:

Do you feel it would be of any benefit to contact Dr. Love?

OzzieMum
01-06-2010, 04:29 PM
I have just had another look at the FBI case file document and noticed that this is page 2 of the document, so there may be personal details on page 1. I wonder if the complete document can be obtained via freedom of info.

I can't copy this document so I will put the link here but I'm not sure if it will work. I can however email it. If the link doesn't work and you would like to read it you can PM me your email address and I will be happy to send it to you.

http://www.footnote.com/image/1716408/

raf
01-06-2010, 05:45 PM
Hi Ozziemum, the link work, but needing of subscription for to read the document... you can save it on your pc, and after you can use this helpful website http://www.imagestime.com/
hosting the image, and after you copy te link and past it here.... thanks,
all the best,
raf

Annasmom
01-06-2010, 08:19 PM
Bringing over from another thread: Thanks to Raf's work:
Who was George Brody? - Page 27 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3873629) - Post 670


"A physician at San Francisco General Hospital says that as of Aug. 19, 1966, George Brody was visiting someone in Ward 34 named M. M. Kukoda, as well as a patient named Jessie Evans, 88 Sixth Street, Delta Hotel. Dr. Love was Kukoda’s physician. George Waters was an intern in charge of Kukoda and reported on her case to Brody, who had power of attorney for Kukoda. Physician said Brody was aged 55-60 at that time, was heavy-set, with grey hair."

I recall discussing whether or not Jessie was looked into at all? Why was Brody visiting Jesse? :waitasec: Uhmm.. Love to find out how old this J. E. would have been in 1966. * Note she lived in a hotel! :banghead:

Do you feel it would be of any benefit to contact Dr. Love?

San Francisco General is the county hospital and all city emergencies and poverty cases go there, so it wouldn't surprise me if this Jessie and many other patients lived in transient hotels. I really don't think there was any connection at all; she was probably in the bed next to Margaret. Also, I seriously doubt that their attending physician (probably a resident in training) would remember something about one of hundreds of patients he had more than forty years ago...all the same, no stone unturned, and it's good to consider this once more.

Skully
01-11-2010, 09:55 AM
I had another thought about GW and EW. During the 1970's I had rather unconventional roommates. I lived in a building that was all unconventional and got to know a bit about that lifestyle, however; I was not part of that lifestyle, I was straight. During this time, SF and CA had just discovered a "sickness" that was killing "gays". They called it the gay man disease. Many bath house were shut down and it was thought it was passed though blood or the lifestyle. I remember enemas were not just for odd sex games anymore. Also many people were going to alternative Dr and Clinics for help. I also got to know "couples" how wanted to have children. I was ask to be a surrogate at one point but I polity refused the offer. My point is, EW and GW may have know a group that we are not looking at. It is quite possible that EW and her massage clinic may have brought her into contact with childless couples or GW could have also had contact with people wanting to adopt in an unconventional way. Just something I am throwing out there.

Cubby
01-21-2010, 05:36 PM
For those of you looking for pictures. I want to remind you of the myspace which was made for George Brody a few years back.

here is the link to the myspace page.

http://www.myspace.com/georgebrody

SideKick
01-25-2010, 01:04 PM
Websleuths Cold Cases: Richard Colvin Cox missing, befriends a mysterious friend named, George. Thought I would put this out there... West Point is NY.


This is nothing short of a fascinating case. Richard Cox was and is the only West Point cadet ever to go missing and remain that way. For all its intricacies, this case is almost undiscussed online. The following information is taken from Cox's Wikipedia entry:

Richard Colvin Cox was [a] United States Military Academy (West Point) second-year cadet who disappeared after he left his dormitory around six p.m on January 14, 1950. Before he disappeared, Richard Cox had a mysterious friend named George with a German accent. One day Cadet Cox vanished without a trace after George paid him a visit.

Richard Colvin Cox, missing from West Point 1950 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Colvin_Cox

Dr. Doogie
01-27-2010, 01:03 PM
I stumbled across this video and it explains some of Brody's techniques for controlling George Waters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 12:59 AM
I found another article about the picketing incident (not sure if this one was posted yet, it is not the same one as shown earlier on the thread) This one indicates that this case did go to court - court records are generally public and easily accessible. It also states that he was picketing on behalf of the AFL Barber's Union on August 5th. Does this mean he was a barber??? I don't recall ever hearing that he was a barber but perhaps I've missed something.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=aMcoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GgYGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4652,2571644&dq=george-brody&hl=en

ETA: I don't think this link worked right. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.

Dr. Doogie
02-03-2010, 01:20 AM
Looks like the good folks of Berkeley circa 1941 recognized a fraud when they saw one. And, I believe, this is the first evidence that Brody may have been a barber, though he may have been a union organizer instead.

Annasmom
02-03-2010, 01:40 AM
I found another article about the picketing incident (not sure if this one was posted yet, it is not the same one as shown earlier on the thread) This one indicates that this case did go to court - court records are generally public and easily accessible. It also states that he was picketing on behalf of the AFL Barber's Union on August 5th. Does this mean he was a barber??? I don't recall ever hearing that he was a barber but perhaps I've missed something.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=aMcoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GgYGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4652,2571644&dq=george-brody&hl=en

ETA: I don't think this link worked right. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.

The link worked fine for me, and I think you may be on to something here. This Brody's birthdate would be 1905, then. Does anybody know how to go about getting court records?

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 01:57 AM
Maybe useless info but I want to post while I'm looking at it.

It appears this would have been local 134, and the secretary-treasure in 1943 was a C.A. Silva, in 1934 it was a C.M. Evju

I'm still snooping around...

ETA The Sec-Treasurer in 1938 was W.T. Peto

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 02:00 AM
The link worked fine for me, and I think you may be on to something here. This Brody's birthdate would be 1905, then. Does anybody know how to go about getting court records?

I've never been to the Alameda County Courthouse... but in Santa Clara County you can just walk in the courthouse and look it up on microfilm...then if you want to handwrite the info onto paper, you can or if you want a certified printed copy they will charge you about $1.00 per page...

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 02:10 AM
another probably useless find... but if you scroll down to July 16 in these Brooklyn NY marriage records, here is a George Brody who would have been born in 1905. Do we have any links to NY?
http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.org/Newspaper/BSU/1931.Marriage.3.html

Cubby
02-03-2010, 10:31 AM
another probably useless find... but if you scroll down to July 16 in these Brooklyn NY marriage records, here is a George Brody who would have been born in 1905. Do we have any links to NY?
http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.org/Newspaper/BSU/1931.Marriage.3.html


We've run across this data before and found him to be a different Brody.

Cubby
02-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Awesome find Odyssey! I addition to the court records, wouldn't there be a list of union members somewhere? If Brody was a member of a union perhaps we could find him that way. I sure wish I was closer to the library in that area of SF. I could easily spend days looking for stuff.

May I ask where you found the info on that union, can you link it?

thanks!

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 12:47 PM
Awesome find Odyssey! I addition to the court records, wouldn't there be a list of union members somewhere? If Brody was a member of a union perhaps we could find him that way. I sure wish I was closer to the library in that area of SF. I could easily spend days looking for stuff.

May I ask where you found the info on that union, can you link it?

thanks!

Sure, these articles don't mention Brody though. Here is the one from 1943 that gives the union # and the sec/treasurer

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hC4iAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yqYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2924,5045022&dq=barbers-union+berkeley&hl=en

and here is the 1936 one that lists a sec/treasurer - the article is titled "Union Endorsement"

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=N5coAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IgYGAAAAIBAJ&pg=960,4673993&dq=barbers-union+berkeley&hl=en

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 01:06 PM
The Evju guy seems to have been Carl Evju. He was already deceased by 1939, I am still trying to figure out who the Silva guy is.

Evidence of Evju's death: (info on a lawsuit filed by his children against the union)
http://www.lawlink.com/research/CaseLevel3/16602

Cubby
02-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Sure, these articles don't mention Brody though. Here is the one from 1943 that gives the union # and the sec/treasurer

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hC4iAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yqYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2924,5045022&dq=barbers-union+berkeley&hl=en

and here is the 1936 one that lists a sec/treasurer - the article is titled "Union Endorsement"

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=N5coAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IgYGAAAAIBAJ&pg=960,4673993&dq=barbers-union+berkeley&hl=en

Interesting. Thank you! I think we can research both the Barbers Union Local 134 and any barber schools in the area from back then.

also, did you happen to notice in your first linked article the union meeting was held at the Oakland Odd Fellows Temple? I can definately see Brody joining an Odd Fellows Temple as odd as he was. I also wonder if there is additional info we can find on this Odd Fellow Temple.

EXCELLENT find Odyssey!

Cubby
02-03-2010, 03:47 PM
Does anyone have access to the subscription articles? and are they all available at one site? I don't have any so I don't really know how they work. Can anyone explain?


also, this may be nothing, but I found this while searching for any info on the Oakland Barbers' Union.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/378455131.html?dids=378455131:378455131&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&type=historic&date=Apr+02%2C+1930&author=&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&desc=EX-BOHEMIA+QUEEN+DROPS+NAME+FIGHT&pqatl=google

copied google search for above article.
L.A. Times Archives (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/advancedsearch.html)


http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gif



http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifEX-BOHEMIA QUEEN DROPS NAME FIGHT Dodie Valencia Gives Up Effort to Prove Baird Father of Her Sonhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifLos Angeles Times (1886-Current File) - Los Angeles, Calif. Date:Apr 2, 1930 Start Page:2Pages:1Text Word Count:666http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gif Abstract (Document Summary)http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifDodie Valencia, once the toast of San Francisco's Bohemia, today gave up a twenty-three-year court fight to obtain legal recognition for her son when she dismissed suits to have him declared the son of David Jennings Baird and a grandson of the late Mrs

Could brody be a combination of the names Dodie and Baird? Maybe not, but with the odd way Brody came up with names, Bee, Kay, Bobby, Eifee..... maybe it is worth looking into who this illegitimate son of Ms. Valencia was. She sure spent a long time trying to prove his paternity. Maybe the story about 'rich' relatives from the east coast was part of the true story? of course I have no idea where this Valencia or Baird family comes from, perhaps the East coast?

Cubby
02-03-2010, 03:56 PM
I found another article about the picketing incident (not sure if this one was posted yet, it is not the same one as shown earlier on the thread) This one indicates that this case did go to court - court records are generally public and easily accessible. It also states that he was picketing on behalf of the AFL Barber's Union on August 5th. Does this mean he was a barber??? I don't recall ever hearing that he was a barber but perhaps I've missed something.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=aMcoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GgYGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4652,2571644&dq=george-brody&hl=en

ETA: I don't think this link worked right. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.


Since we know this slapping incident took place on August 5, 1941 I wonder if someone nearby the library could go and search for a Brody matching the one above (address for Brody is listed in above linked article) in the Polk Directories in the ancestry area of the library. I can't find any Polk directories free online, only cds that can be purchased or paid memberships. IMO it would be worth it to make a trip to the library to see if this Brody could be found and traced in any old Polk Directories or through any records at the court house, both of which would likely not be available online.

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 06:52 PM
Since we know this slapping incident took place on August 5, 1941 I wonder if someone nearby the library could go and search for a Brody matching the one above (address for Brody is listed in above linked article) in the Polk Directories in the ancestry area of the library. I can't find any Polk directories free online, only cds that can be purchased or paid memberships. IMO it would be worth it to make a trip to the library to see if this Brody could be found and traced in any old Polk Directories or through any records at the court house, both of which would likely not be available online.

If I remember correctly (which I very well may not) we had found a couple listings for him on Polk Directories online, I think a few years apart but during the 1940's and his addresses were two different motels in the Oakland/Berkeley area. I seem to recall trying to find out if any of the other residents listed at one of the motels was also listed at the other, thinking they might have moved around together.

Do we have a timeline? I really don't like going to Oakland but I will find out if the Berkeley library has the directories - if so, I would be happy to go there and search them. I know that he was in the East Bay (Oakland, Berkeley) in the 1940's - I think 1941 is the first year we know he was in that area? Then what is the last year we know he was in Oakland/Berkeley? And the first year we know he was in SF? I don't remember which thread all this was on.

This is pure speculation here, but I am starting to think more and more that George Brody was his real name. He didn't really seem to be hiding at the time of this article - if he was listed in city directories (even when he lived with someone (margaret?) in SF) and called the police, gave his name, etc... I'm wondering if something happened in Oakland after these articles that caused him to move to SF and live under the radar. I can almost bet that he is NOT listed in any city directories during the time he lived with GW.

On the union thing, I can't seem to find any sign of this union still being in existence. So I wouldn't have a clue where to look for membership lists. :(

Cubby
02-03-2010, 07:09 PM
I am and have been thinking George Brody is his real name too.

I'm still a little intrigued by this Lydia "Dodie" Valencia from SF. I can't get too far though without the Ancestry membership. There is some kind if inquisition to see if she was poisoned? born 1879 died in 1948. So she would be the right age for a birth mother to GB. Though, her grave is marked Baird and some other guy James Dunphy is also listed as a husband...( James Dunphy has another interesting criminal history- but it looks like he was in prison( based on ripping off a bank he managed for about 145 grand or something) in 1940. The date he turned himself in to the cops was prior to the Aug 5, 1941 of the incident where George Brody slapped that guy. I didn't get far enough to see what happened after Dunphy turned himself in and if and for how long he was in prison. Interestingly the picture on "Dodie's" stone at her grave looks like it was for two persons, and the left half was never filled in so I am unsure if anyone is buried next to her or not.

There is also some directory of some kind, Berkeley College or Library that has boxes of microfiched negatives from a lot of old early 1900 photos.


As you know we just have bits and pieces of a time line right now. We can work on one.

Another direction..... When I looked up the Polk Directories I did so not online, but at the Joliet IL Library in Will County...... I do remember they had almost all the years and I just flipped through the pages for last names, found addresses years and names so went that route- when researching my family from that area. If Brody is listed in any of the local Polk directories, it may show others with those same addresses, possibly relatives of his. We could always find out what is available at the Berkeley Library prior to going there and put together a list or idea of what we want to look for.


As for the union, it may have changed names or combined with another union. We might be able to do some digging by calling union halls, or just digging around. I'd imagine they would have a list of union laborers somewhere, just where.

Also, I don't know if the barbers and hair dressers in SF or in California are still part of a union. They are not in IL... but each state is different.

with Brody's being into the hotels, perhaps earlier in life as a younger man he might have worked as a barber in one of the finer hotels? Then got in some trouble or couldn't get along with people and started living off the grid? Just a thought

Cubby
02-03-2010, 07:24 PM
Barbers Union Local 134. We'd have to see what that may have merged into or combined with if hair dressers in California are no longer part of a union.

I found an article about an older lady, if she is still alive who retired after 50 years of being one of the only female barbers in the union in the area. She'd be about 87 now, but still had her marbles and worked until 2007 when she retired and sold the barber shop.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070505/ai_n19062343/

She arrived in the east Oakland area in 46, but the article lists Moler Barber College in San Francisco where she attended school. I wonder how many barber colleges existed in SF around that time or in the 30's. Maybe we can find college or school records of Brody becoming a barber.

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 07:30 PM
Another direction..... When I looked up the Polk Directories I did so not online, but at the Joliet IL Library in Will County...... I do remember they had almost all the years and I just flipped through the pages for last names, found addresses years and names so went that route. If Brody is listed in any of them, it may show others with those same addresses, possibly relatives of his. We could always find out what is available at the Berkeley Library prior to going there and put together a list or idea of what we want to look for.




I just checked the Berkeley Library website - they do have the polk directories from 1892-1943 in their history room (which is only open limited hours - i can probably go friday) These directories cover Oakland and Berkeley. They also have Berkeley telephone directories 1943-present. If eh lived in hotels, he probably didn't have a phone so those might be useless, but still worth a look. Since we know he was there in 1941, I think I can just go backward all the way to when he turned 18 and forward until Anna's disappearance, since I can't remember the other dates. :woohoo:

Cubby
02-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Awesome! Whoo hoo!

The only early address we seem to have for this George Brody was the one from the article you or raf linked. I don't recall which article had that Brody's address. There was also another married George Brody with a wife named Margaret who is very close in age to our GB and is from the SF area. Doogie knew most of the wrong GB's info and he sorted through it awhile back.

Maybe we should consider putting a hold on your trip to the library until we can get some info on the wrong GB so you know when you run across that info not to spend a lot of time trying to sort the two out. Maybe Doogie can help with posting a summary of what he researched on the wrong GB.

Thank you for offering to do this! I would really like to get as much narrowed down so you don't waste more time than you need to when you do go. :blowkiss:

ETA: Doogie or Sherlock Jr might also have some other info on the two GB's, more address histories for both the correct and incorrect GB's. Lets see what we can gather from them before you make a trip to the library.

Dr. Doogie
02-03-2010, 07:57 PM
I will have to reconstruct my info about the "other" Brody who lived in SF and was married to a Margaret. Off hand, I recall that he was living in Yuba City, Ca at the same time our Brody was living in Oakland. (This was from Voter registration records on Ancestry.com.)

I think that this barber's union link will provide us with many missing pieces of the puzzle. I cannot find that Local 134 still exists. The AFL (American Federation of Labor) merged with the CIO in ther 1960's (I believe) to become the AFL-CIO. Certain locals may have also merged or been given different numbers during the consolidation.

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 07:58 PM
Awesome! Whoo hoo!

The only early address we seem to have for this George Brody was the one from the article you or raf linked. I don't recall which article had that Brody's address. There was also another married George Brody with a wife named Margaret who is very close in age to our GB and is from the SF area. Doogie knew most of the wrong GB's info and he sorted through it awhile back.

Maybe we should consider putting a hold on your trip to the library until we can get some info on the wrong GB so you know when you run across that info not to spend a lot of time trying to sort the two out. Maybe Doogie can help with posting a summary of what he researched on the wrong GB.

Thank you for offering to do this! I would really like to get as much narrowed down so you don't waste more time than you need to when you do go. :blowkiss:

ETA: Doogie or Sherlock Jr might also have some other info on the two GB's, more address histories for both the correct and incorrect GB's. Lets see what we can gather from them before you make a trip to the library.

I found what I was looking for - it was actually from voter registrations and we were not sure if this was our George but here it is... then further down on that page, was one city directory listing for George at one of the addresses we already had.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Who was George Brody?

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 08:04 PM
Awesome! Whoo hoo!


ETA: Doogie or Sherlock Jr might also have some other info on the two GB's, more address histories for both the correct and incorrect GB's. Lets see what we can gather from them before you make a trip to the library.

I don't think any "wrong brody" info would matter for this trip unless there is a wrong Brody in Oakland/Berkeley. This library wont have any info on San Francisco residents...

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 08:08 PM
Just found something else - I know the 1940 census won't be released until 2012.. but I did see something on the national archives website saying you can fill out a request form if you need information on a deceased person from the 1940 census! Wouldn't it be awesome if he was on there?? It should list birthplace, etc...

http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/census/1940/general-info.html

SherlockJr
02-03-2010, 08:23 PM
As far as the Polk Directories, I've been able to get information by just calling the San Francisco Public Library. You usually get a nice person who will look them up if they are not busy.

Cubby
02-03-2010, 08:47 PM
I will have to reconstruct my info about the "other" Brody who lived in SF and was married to a Margaret. Off hand, I recall that he was living in Yuba City, Ca at the same time our Brody was living in Oakland. (This was from Voter registration records on Ancestry.com.)

I think that this barber's union link will provide us with many missing pieces of the puzzle. I cannot find that Local 134 still exists. The AFL (American Federation of Labor) merged with the CIO in ther 1960's (I believe) to become the AFL-CIO. Certain locals may have also merged or been given different numbers during the consolidation.


But we should hopefully be able to find old records from prior to the merge. Even if we contact the current or one of the current unions perhaps they can direct us to how to find the old records from AFL Barbers Union 134. I didn't look back, but was this Barbers Union AFL? I didn't look closely enough to notice that and don't really have union members in the family now.. ( a few generations ago, but not now) so I don't know much about them.

My sister works for Navister International which is part of or bought International Harvester. I'll ask her for direction too.... they are union or have union employees and her ex is a union electrician so she has dealt with that a bit.

Cubby
02-03-2010, 08:48 PM
Just found something else - I know the 1940 census won't be released until 2012.. but I did see something on the national archives website saying you can fill out a request form if you need information on a deceased person from the 1940 census! Wouldn't it be awesome if he was on there?? It should list birthplace, etc...

http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/census/1940/general-info.html


Great! I wonder if we would need a copy of Brody's death certificate and if we have one. I know Annasmom has a copy of GW's but I don't know if she or Doogie have a copy of GB's. I think they do IIRC.

Cubby
02-03-2010, 08:49 PM
I don't think any "wrong brody" info would matter for this trip unless there is a wrong Brody in Oakland/Berkeley. This library wont have any info on San Francisco residents...


There were two GB's living in the same area around the same time. I just one to make sure you are not gathering info on the one already ruled out as being our GB.

Cubby
02-03-2010, 08:54 PM
I found what I was looking for - it was actually from voter registrations and we were not sure if this was our George but here it is... then further down on that page, was one city directory listing for George at one of the addresses we already had.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Who was George Brody? (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3666511&postcount=604)




I also have a suggestion for someone who has an ancestry.com subscription - i tried to do this with what little info a non-subscriber can see, but I think there is a lot more that I can't see.

It seems the addresses where the Oakland Brody lived are also hotels.

1936 - 483 9th St, Oakland
1938-1940 - 534 12th St, Oakland
1944 - 2329 San Pablo Ave

On the search screen, instead of typing a name you can type the address in quotes as a keyword ("483 9th") and it will give you the people who lived at that address. I am wondering if there might be another person who lived at 483 9th in 1936 and at 534 12th in 1938-1940, indicating that he mooched off of someone else before meeting Margaret.

ETA: I am referring to the voter subscriptions database btw...

hopefully raf will hop in on this one... she found many of these addy's too... If I can find some of the older posts, I will link them here like you did this one.

Odyssey
02-03-2010, 09:29 PM
Great! I wonder if we would need a copy of Brody's death certificate and if we have one. I know Annasmom has a copy of GW's but I don't know if she or Doogie have a copy of GB's. I think they do IIRC.

Good question. I had kind of assumed that since he was born in 1905, they wouldn't need proof that he's deceased... but with our luck, they would.

Annasmom
02-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Good question. I had kind of assumed that since he was born in 1905, they wouldn't need proof that he's deceased... but with our luck, they would.
I'll get it out of the files and post it tonight. It might also be with Doogie's pictures.

Annasmom
02-03-2010, 11:24 PM
Here is is.

Odyssey
02-04-2010, 12:33 AM
I will have to reconstruct my info about the "other" Brody who lived in SF and was married to a Margaret. Off hand, I recall that he was living in Yuba City, Ca at the same time our Brody was living in Oakland. (This was from Voter registration records on Ancestry.com.)

I think that this barber's union link will provide us with many missing pieces of the puzzle. I cannot find that Local 134 still exists. The AFL (American Federation of Labor) merged with the CIO in ther 1960's (I believe) to become the AFL-CIO. Certain locals may have also merged or been given different numbers during the consolidation.

For what it's worth, here is a website to the Alameda Co AFL-CIO
http://www.alamedalabor.org/index.cfm?action=article&articleID=381564bf-be49-4d88-8244-a4c7d0eb2e87

and this little snippet from an article describing different careers available:

Barbers may belong to the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, AFL-CIO
in Southern California or the Retail Clerks Union in the northern part of
the State. Fewer than half of the shops in the State are covered by union
contracts.

Here is a link to the United Food & Commercials Workers Union that covers Alameda County. The "About Us" section mentions hair care as one of the fields covered in their organization.

http://www.ufcw5.org/ContactUs.htm

I know nothing about unions, hope this is helpful to someone...

Odyssey
02-04-2010, 01:06 AM
Again, probably another useless bit here but I was searching articles containing the word "barbers" in Berkeley and this popped up and gave me the chills.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hwIiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qaMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4232,734039&dq=barbers&hl=en

The red haired barber's 21 year old niece, Lois Wright, informed authorities that her uncle had sought to take out life insurance on her, naming himself as the beneficiary. The girl's statement was verified by Howard Corliss, Los Angeles manager for a nationally known insurance company. "James came to us and wanted to take out a $1000 policy on the girl", he said. "He said nothing about taking out insurance on himself and making her the beneficiary, so we became suspicious and turned him down.

It goes on to talk about how two of his wives and his nephew died mysteriously and this guy "James" was suspected of causing their deaths to collect insurance money.

This article is from 1936, by the way... which happens to be (I think) the earliest year we know GB was in Oakland/Berkeley.

Cubby
02-04-2010, 01:26 AM
I will find out about the union thing... I'll call or email and find out how to get former member info. If GB was picketing at the time, there is a good chance that was his profession.

I'm trying to remember if there was any conclusive documentation to prove any of GB's supposed careers or they were simply more of his babble to Annasmom.

Doogie and Sherlock, can you help me on this one? The possible career as a barber is the first solid evidence we have found on any profession of George Brody correct?

TIA!

Cubby
02-04-2010, 01:40 AM
The article you found indicated the slap took place on August 5, 1941. I don't recall what was found to confirm earlier dates.

Also interesting is the red hair. I don't know if Brody was a red head or had any reddish tones to his hair prior to greying.

Annasmom, what color natural hair would you think GB had prior to grey?

TIA

Annasmom
02-04-2010, 03:19 AM
The article you found indicated the slap took place on August 5, 1941. I don't recall what was found to confirm earlier dates.

Also interesting is the red hair. I don't know if Brody was a red head or had any reddish tones to his hair prior to greying.

Annasmom, what color natural hair would you think GB had prior to grey?

TIA
I don't know. His hair was completely white when I first met him in 1967. It's hard to believe he was only 62 at that time because he looked so much older.

OzzieMum
02-04-2010, 03:51 AM
I am and have been thinking George Brody is his real name too.

I'm still a little intrigued by this Lydia "Dodie" Valencia from SF. I can't get too far though without the Ancestry membership. There is some kind if inquisition to see if she was poisoned? born 1879 died in 1948. So she would be the right age for a birth mother to GB. Though, her grave is marked Baird and some other guy James Dunphy is also listed as a husband...( James Dunphy has another interesting criminal history- but it looks like he was in prison( based on ripping off a bank he managed for about 145 grand or something) in 1940. The date he turned himself in to the cops was prior to the Aug 5, 1941 of the incident where George Brody slapped that guy. I didn't get far enough to see what happened after Dunphy turned himself in and if and for how long he was in prison. Interestingly the picture on "Dodie's" stone at her grave looks like it was for two persons, and the left half was never filled in so I am unsure if anyone is buried next to her or not.

There is also some directory of some kind, Berkeley College or Library that has boxes of microfiched negatives from a lot of old early 1900 photos.


As you know we just have bits and pieces of a time line right now. We can work on one.

Another direction..... When I looked up the Polk Directories I did so not online, but at the Joliet IL Library in Will County...... I do remember they had almost all the years and I just flipped through the pages for last names, found addresses years and names so went that route- when researching my family from that area. If Brody is listed in any of the local Polk directories, it may show others with those same addresses, possibly relatives of his. We could always find out what is available at the Berkeley Library prior to going there and put together a list or idea of what we want to look for.


As for the union, it may have changed names or combined with another union. We might be able to do some digging by calling union halls, or just digging around. I'd imagine they would have a list of union laborers somewhere, just where.

Also, I don't know if the barbers and hair dressers in SF or in California are still part of a union. They are not in IL... but each state is different.

with Brody's being into the hotels, perhaps earlier in life as a younger man he might have worked as a barber in one of the finer hotels? Then got in some trouble or couldn't get along with people and started living off the grid? Just a thought

Lydia "Dodie" Valenica Baird is in a family tree on ancestry. She was married to David Jennings Baird and had a son, David Jennings Baird Jr. Lydia married a second time to James C Dunphy but no children listed for this marriage (not sure if either marriage was legal, will have to check further on the weekend).

I will also check Footnote.

OzzieMum
02-04-2010, 04:44 AM
There are also 62 news articles on Lydia. I will read them on the weekend and post anything that looks interesting.

Dr. Doogie
02-04-2010, 04:54 AM
Again, probably another useless bit here but I was searching articles containing the word "barbers" in Berkeley and this popped up and gave me the chills...

Yikes! Sounds very familiar, doesn't it. Hmmmm....

Dr. Doogie
02-04-2010, 04:56 AM
Doogie and Sherlock, can you help me on this one? The possible career as a barber is the first solid evidence we have found on any profession of George Brody correct?

Except for his claims of being a boxer and a politician, this is the first real evidence of a profession.

Odyssey
02-04-2010, 12:06 PM
The article you found indicated the slap took place on August 5, 1941. I don't recall what was found to confirm earlier dates.



TIA

I was basing the 1936 on the assumption that those voter registrations with those addresses for motels were indeed our GB... The earliest of those was 1936.

Annasmom
02-04-2010, 02:18 PM
I don't know. His hair was completely white when I first met him in 1967. It's hard to believe he was only 62 at that time because he looked so much older.
And of course he may well have lied about his age to the newspaper reporter who did the story about the picket line.

SideKick
02-04-2010, 04:02 PM
Hello,

I was so busy lately, but now starting to google and research. I did find this:Of non importance except he may have known Brody.

Joseph Ortiz turned many heads at Chronicle

From Fairmont to Fifth and Mission, class all the way

15 Jan 2010

Media Workers Guild


Joseph Ortiz, also known as Joe the Barber, has died. An obituary is in works.

Mr. Ortiz was a skilled craftsman and friend to scores of San Francisco journalists. He was a proud member in the barbers' union and proud of his long service at Fifth and Mission. He cut the hair of many great names of San Francisco journalism -- Guild and management. Before he set up his chair at the Chronicle Building, he was a barber at the Fairmont Hotel.

Anyone with recollections please let us know.

Funeral services are as follows:

Duggans in Daly City : Sunday Jan. 17 Rosary 4:30 p.m., viewing until 9 p.m.

Funeral at St. Paul Church on Twenty-ninth Street in San Francisco on Monday Jan. 18 at 10 a.m.

Burial at Holy Cross Cemetery in Colma at 12 noon on Tuesday.

http://www.mediaworkers.org/index.php?ID=7161

~

Also, in this link are plenty resources.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~npmelton/sfc.html

Polk Directories - many years 1941.

Thought I'd put this info out there while I too research.

Odyssey
02-04-2010, 06:07 PM
I went to a local library today just to see if anything useful might be there. I did find a couple city directories from San Francisco from 1969, 1972, and 1973. I found nothing in the 1969 directory - in 1972 & 1973 I did find a Geo. Waters (but no GB) at 630 Geary (Hotel Paul) but when I cross referenced the address I did not find any residents of the hotel listed... only the owner/manager's name (which was different in both directories)

Odyssey
02-04-2010, 06:11 PM
Again, probably another useless bit here but I was searching articles containing the word "barbers" in Berkeley and this popped up and gave me the chills.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hwIiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qaMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4232,734039&dq=barbers&hl=en

The red haired barber's 21 year old niece, Lois Wright, informed authorities that her uncle had sought to take out life insurance on her, naming himself as the beneficiary. The girl's statement was verified by Howard Corliss, Los Angeles manager for a nationally known insurance company. "James came to us and wanted to take out a $1000 policy on the girl", he said. "He said nothing about taking out insurance on himself and making her the beneficiary, so we became suspicious and turned him down.

It goes on to talk about how two of his wives and his nephew died mysteriously and this guy "James" was suspected of causing their deaths to collect insurance money.

This article is from 1936, by the way... which happens to be (I think) the earliest year we know GB was in Oakland/Berkeley.

It turns out this James guy was executed in 1942.

SideKick
02-04-2010, 06:30 PM
Neighborhood: Downtown Berkeley
Pete's Center Street Barber Shop
1906 University Ave
(between Martin Luther King Jr Way & Bonita Ave)
Berkeley, CA 94704

(510) 843-8755

Isn't this the same address spoken of above in the newspaper clipping?
Can anyone call to see if they recall GB?

Odyssey
02-04-2010, 06:39 PM
Now that the barber possibility has come up, I just remembered something about Grecian Formula was written in that squibb book lol

So I went through the squibb looking for that and came across some phone numbers and addresses that I'd also like to look up in the SF city directories... so I will go back and check into those over the weekend.

OzzieMum
02-05-2010, 02:23 AM
Except for his claims of being a boxer and a politician, this is the first real evidence of a profession.

GB might have classed himself as a politician if he held office in a union, or for that matter, was even a member of a union. He obviously suffered from illusions of grandeur.

And maybe he said he was a boxer because he got slapped in the face outside the barber shop LOL :)

Cubby
02-05-2010, 09:02 AM
And of course he may well have lied about his age to the newspaper reporter who did the story about the picket line.


He could have been white/grey at 62 but I think that usually happens when people have darker hair. I don't know if people go white/grey by that age with blonde or red hair.

FWIW, my sons godfather was almost completely white by 48 but he also had black hair.

and.... Some people just grey young. A grade school friend of mines mother was totally grey by her late 20's, and a few weeks ago I was standing outside my sons school waiting for him to get out. Some of the older children were out before he was, and his school is preschool through 8th. A kid at his school, who has black hair, was standing in front of me while I was waiting for my son and I noticed he has single strands of grey here and there.... and the kid is still in grade school or JH. Brody could have been someone who genetically greyed young.

Cubby
02-05-2010, 10:13 AM
There are also 62 news articles on Lydia. I will read them on the weekend and post anything that looks interesting.


Ugh, I keep hitting the wrong button to quote. (so if you see todays date that I edited a post, I did not, it was just my hitting edit instead of quote. I haven't had enough coffee yet.)

Thanks Ozzie. It's a long shot, but since it appears Lydia was never able to legally establish paternity of her son I took a guess based on the time frame and location perhaps Brody is her illegitimate son. Of course that could be totally wrong.... it just jumped out at me for some reason. And Brody strikes me as the kind of person that would have been angry about that and stayed angry about a father not acknowledging him.

Cubby
02-05-2010, 10:44 AM
It turns out this James guy was executed in 1942.


Executed? wow! At least we know he was not GB. Thanks for looking! Another one ruled out.

We are certainly running into some 'interesting' characters here, no?

Odyssey
02-05-2010, 01:01 PM
I have tried to put together a timeline on Brody and Waters and other significant events. This will help me when I go search the city directories but thought it might be useful to others as well. Please let me know if i missed anything pertinent.

1936 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 483 9th St Oakland, salesman
1938-1940 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 534 12th St Oakland (Hotel St Paul?), jr research assistant
1941 - Oakland GB is picketing for AFL Barber's Union, gets punched, calls police, goes to court. GB's address listed in news article as 1724 San Pablo Ave.
August 1942 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 1724 San Pablo Ave. Jr Research Assistant
November 1942 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 2329 San Pablo Ave, Jr Research Assistant
1943 - MK starts working at Letterman Hospital
1944 - Oakland GB registered to vote, listed at 2329 San Pablo Ave, Jr Research Assistant
1952 - MK arrested
1953 - MK listed twice in SF City Directory: on Fell St (may be listed as K M Berghald) and at 1925 Fulton #5 (nurse)
1957 - MK listed at 3009 Mission St SF (agt Stroll-O-Matic)
1958 - MK listed at 3019 Mission St SF (Oriental & French Imports)
1958 - EW known to be in SF
1960 - "Mary Kay" listed at 3141 Franklin #4
1961-1963 "Mary Kay" listed at 1006 Noe St #3
1962 - GB was at 1006 Noe by this time according to statement from landlord
1966 - Mary M Kay (wid of John) listed at 1006 Noe #3 occ-"Better Fashion Home"
Aug 1966 - GB visits MK at SFGH (Jessie Evans of 88 6th St also at hospital)
May 1967 - Insurance premium notice for MK "Mary Kay" addressed to GB at Otis Hotel (at 1156 Sutter) <--note this is the address EW knew GB to live at
July 1966-January 1967 - Rent payments for 1006 Noe were made by MK
July 1967 - Rent payment for 1006 Noe made by GB
Aug 19 1967 - GB writes statement indicating hospital demanded financial statements from MK
Aug 30 1967 - MK dies at age 50
1967 - Annasmom meets GB
Early 1968 - GW last visit to Anna
Oct 1968 - GW writes letter to German embassy
Feb 1969 - GW writes letter to wife of German leader
Aug 1970 - GW requests ephemeris for 1939 and 1947 (Sigrid) mentioning date 7/15/71
Mar 1971 - GW buys camera (later reported stolen)
May 1971 - GW makes note to contact BMW re: will
Sep 1971 - GW indicates he is planning a vacation
Sep 19 1971 - GW books R/T flight to Chicago/Central Wisconsin
Mar 1972 - GW returns binoculars??? (see Mar 1973)
May 1972 - GW begins taking out accidental death policies
Dec 1972 - last child support payment is made by GW
Jan 16 1973 - Anna disappears
Jan 1973 - TWA plane ticket appears to have been purchased, est ticket cost $500
Mar 1973 - Gw returns binoculars?? (see Mar 1972)
Sep 1976 - GB writes letter to Seka, addresses her as "Little Tito", leaves a phone number where she can reach him from 10pm-1045pm 474-3717
Nov 1976 - GB writes letter to Seka's parents
Dec 1976 - GB writes letter to Seka warning her not to alienate him
Jan 1977 - GW writes note dictated by GB "I did her a favor by accepting her.." (Seka)
Jan 1977 - GB writes letter to Seka
Jan 1977 - GB writes 2nd letter to Seka accusing her of betraying him, mentions her place of work and "Mike".
July 1978 - "Mr George" receives postcard from Seka
1978 - Jessie Evans dies
Apr 28 1981 - "George Bee" checks into Childrens Hospital
May 5 1981 - "George Bee" is released from Hospital
Aug 1981 - GW writes note about preparing when ready to go - "Arrange power of attorney, make final arrangements on policies, notary, fingerprints, etc"
Dec 20 1981 - GW calls Griffin Institute in San Diego
Dec 24 1981 - GW makes 7 minute call to Martinez number (anesthesiologist?)
Dec 24 1981 - GB dies.
Dec 24 1981 - GW makes lengthy call to EW
Dec 28 1981 - GW contacts Law Offices of Martin Dean
Jan 1982 - GW dies
Dec 1992 - EW dies in San Mateo County

Odyssey
02-05-2010, 01:16 PM
A couple things I noticed while researching and attempting to piece together this timeline:

1) The address where GB is listed in the voter reg "2329 San Pablo Ave" was the Open Door Church in 1942 (at the time GB was listed). Apparently it had some sort of housing though, because another person was listed as living there during that time - a Gordon Williams, age 15 in 1942. The pastor of this church was a Raymond Williams (possibly Gordon's father?) and it was a Christian church, as far as I can tell. (check google archives for "2329 san pablo" if you want to see the source)

2) EW had indicated in her conversation with JF that she knew GB to live at the Otis Hotel and GW (jack wolf) to live at 630 Geary. I believe Doogie had asked if EW had known them PRIOR to Anna's disappearance. In 1967 an insurance premium notice for MK was sent to GB at the Otis Hotel. In the 1972 & 1973 city directories, GW was listed at 630 Geary. Note: The Otis Hotel is the 1156 Sutter address and I believe 630 Geary was the Abbey Hotel. Interesting, because when this premium notice was sent to the Otis, he was supposedly living with MK at 1006 Noe.

3) While looking back, I came across Doogie's attempt in early 2008 to access the records of TWA and was told they were not indexed yet and to try back at a later date. Do you think it's too soon to try again?

Cubby
02-05-2010, 02:00 PM
Awesome work Odyssey! I think when you make it to the Oakland Library, it would be a good idea to track MK's addresses between the time she started working at Letterman until her death. That should give us a good indication when she met GB and I am gonna guess that might coincide with the time GB fell off the radar and started putting everything in MK's name and address.

I'm wondering now how the junior research assistant might coincide with GB picketing. IF he were not a barber, since his listed profession with the voting registration is listed as junior research assistant, what kind of positing might that be within a union? I'll admit having too many white collar workers in the family I really have limited knowledge about unions.

Any ideas?

I will ask my sister over the weekend about the Union stuff and what she can offer in the way of direction and will call/email Monday. I am too swamped today.

Cubby
02-05-2010, 02:00 PM
It may not be too soon to inquire about the TWA index again as it has been two years. Perhaps they are indexed now.

Odyssey
02-05-2010, 02:11 PM
Awesome work Odyssey! I think when you make it to the Oakland Library, it would be a good idea to track MK's addresses between the time she started working at Letterman until her death. That should give us a good indication when she met GB and I am gonna guess that might coincide with the time GB fell off the radar and started putting everything in MK's name and address.

I'm wondering now how the junior research assistant might coincide with GB picketing. IF he were not a barber, since his listed profession with the voting registration is listed as junior research assistant, what kind of positing might that be within a union? I'll admit having too many white collar workers in the family I really have limited knowledge about unions.

Any ideas?

I will ask my sister over the weekend about the Union stuff and what she can offer in the way of direction and will call/email Monday. I am too swamped today.

My guess (and only speculation) is that MK met GB around 1960 - maybe a bit earlier. I'm saying this because that is when Margaret Kukoda became "Mary Kay".

Annasmom
02-05-2010, 02:51 PM
I have tried to put together a timeline on Brody and Waters and other significant events. This will help me when I go search the city directories but thought it might be useful to others as well. Please let me know if i missed anything pertinent.

1936 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 483 9th St Oakland, salesman
1938-1940 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 534 12th St Oakland (Hotel St Paul?), jr research assistant
1941 - Oakland GB is picketing for AFL Barber's Union, gets punched, calls police, goes to court. GB's address listed in news article as 1724 San Pablo Ave.
August 1942 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 1724 San Pablo Ave. Jr Research Assistant
November 1942 - Oakland GB is registered to vote, listed at 2329 San Pablo Ave, Jr Research Assistant
1943 - MK starts working at Letterman Hospital
1944 - Oakland GB registered to vote, listed at 2329 San Pablo Ave, Jr Research Assistant
1952 - MK arrested
1953 - MK listed twice in SF City Directory: on Fell St (may be listed as K M Berghald) and at 1925 Fulton #5 (nurse)
1957 - MK listed at 3009 Mission St SF (agt Stroll-O-Matic)
1958 - MK listed at 3019 Mission St SF (Oriental & French Imports)
1958 - EW known to be in SF
1960 - "Mary Kay" listed at 3141 Franklin #4
1961-1963 "Mary Kay" listed at 1006 Noe St #3
1962 - GB was at 1006 Noe by this time according to statement from landlord
1966 - Mary M Kay (wid of John) listed at 1006 Noe #3 occ-"Better Fashion Home"
Aug 1966 - GB visits MK at SFGH (Jessie Evans of 88 6th St also at hospital)
May 1967 - Insurance premium notice for MK "Mary Kay" addressed to GB at Otis Hotel (at 1156 Sutter) <--note this is the address EW knew GB to live at
July 1966-January 1967 - Rent payments for 1006 Noe were made by MK
July 1967 - Rent payment for 1006 Noe made by GB
Aug 19 1967 - GB writes statement indicating hospital demanded financial statements from MK
Aug 30 1967 - MK dies at age 50
1967 - Annasmom meets GB
Early 1968 - GW last visit to Anna
Oct 1968 - GW writes letter to German embassy
Feb 1969 - GW writes letter to wife of German leader
Aug 1970 - GW requests ephemeris for 1939 and 1947 (Sigrid) mentioning date 7/15/71
Mar 1971 - GW buys camera (later reported stolen)
May 1971 - GW makes note to contact BMW re: will
Sep 1971 - GW indicates he is planning a vacation
Sep 19 1971 - GW books R/T flight to Chicago/Central Wisconsin
Mar 1972 - GW returns binoculars??? (see Mar 1973)
May 1972 - GW begins taking out accidental death policies
Dec 1972 - last child support payment is made by GW
Jan 16 1973 - Anna disappears
Jan 1973 - TWA plane ticket appears to have been purchased, est ticket cost $500
Mar 1973 - Gw returns binoculars?? (see Mar 1972)
Sep 1976 - GB writes letter to Seka, addresses her as "Little Tito", leaves a phone number where she can reach him from 10pm-1045pm 474-3717
Nov 1976 - GB writes letter to Seka's parents
Dec 1976 - GB writes letter to Seka warning her not to alienate him
Jan 1977 - GW writes note dictated by GB "I did her a favor by accepting her.." (Seka)
Jan 1977 - GB writes letter to Seka
Jan 1977 - GB writes 2nd letter to Seka accusing her of betraying him, mentions her place of work and "Mike".
July 1978 - "Mr George" receives postcard from Seka
1978 - Jessie Evans dies
Apr 28 1981 - "George Bee" checks into Childrens Hospital
May 5 1981 - "George Bee" is released from Hospital
Aug 1981 - GW writes note about preparing when ready to go - "Arrange power of attorney, make final arrangements on policies, notary, fingerprints, etc"
Dec 20 1981 - GW calls Griffin Institute in San Diego
Dec 24 1981 - GW makes 7 minute call to Martinez number (anesthesiologist?)
Dec 24 1981 - GB dies.
Dec 24 1981 - GW makes lengthy call to EW
Dec 28 1981 - GW contacts Law Offices of Martin Dean
Jan 1982 - GW dies
Dec 1992 - EW dies in San Mateo County

This is a really amazing timeline. The only thing I can think to add is the date MK lost her nurse's license. I'm not sure when that was, but at one point I got the date from a nurse's registry, and there was a newspaper article about it. It may be under the Margaret thread.

Cubby
02-05-2010, 02:54 PM
Does anyone think I should make the GB timeline a sticky at the top of the forum? If so let me know and I will copy and post it as a sticky so it doesn't get buried.

Dr. Doogie
02-05-2010, 03:14 PM
It might be helpful to make it a sticky. I would also add to it "Late 1972 - 'The Plan' note is written."

Odyssey
02-05-2010, 03:27 PM
I thought there had been some paper where GW wrote "ACE - MISSING" but I couldn't find it. Does anyone else remember that?

Annasmom
02-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Does anyone think I should make the GB timeline a sticky at the top of the forum? If so let me know and I will copy and post it as a sticky so it doesn't get buried. Great idea!

Cubby
02-05-2010, 03:48 PM
I will make it a sticky and leave it an open thread so it can be updated as we find additional information.

Dr. Doogie
02-05-2010, 06:31 PM
I thought there had been some paper where GW wrote "ACE - MISSING" but I couldn't find it. Does anyone else remember that?

That was on a ledger he kept for child support payments that he kept in the BFH. The last entry said "ACE lost".

Dr. Doogie
02-05-2010, 06:33 PM
I will make it a sticky and leave it an open thread so it can be updated as we find additional information. Great. Let's all self-police and only post updates to the timeline there. Any discussion of the info on the timeline should be done in the other appropriate threads with a link back to the timeline if necessary.

Odyssey
02-05-2010, 07:39 PM
Was looking into the address of 2329 San Pablo Ave where GB was listed (found that address was the Open Door Church) So started searching Open Door Church and found this... could be the same place

YOUNG PEOPLE HOLD SERVICE AT MISSION (Jan 8 1941)

The young people of the Mission Covenant Church were in charge of the service at the Open Door Mission in Oakland on Monday evening. Contributions toward food for the men at the mission were received by the young people at the church last Sunday.

and...

Invitation was extended the council to attend a meeting to be held at the headquarters of the American Federation of Labor, 2111 Webster St., Oakland, at 8pm tomorrow night, at which time speakers will discuss the transportation problem as it affects the San Francisco Bay Bridge and East Bay cities. It was voted that as many members of council as possible will attend.... (skipping nonrelevant stuff) .....Rev. Raymond A. Williams, pastor of the Open Door Church, requested permission to use the building at 2327-2329 San Pablo Ave for church purposes. The request was referred to the planning commission for recommendation.

OzzieMum
02-05-2010, 11:24 PM
Ugh, I keep hitting the wrong button to quote. (so if you see todays date that I edited a post, I did not, it was just my hitting edit instead of quote. I haven't had enough coffee yet.)

Thanks Ozzie. It's a long shot, but since it appears Lydia was never able to legally establish paternity of her son I took a guess based on the time frame and location perhaps Brody is her illegitimate son. Of course that could be totally wrong.... it just jumped out at me for some reason. And Brody strikes me as the kind of person that would have been angry about that and stayed angry about a father not acknowledging him.

This was an easy one. Lydia's son David Jennings Baird Jr was killed in a plane crash in June 1929, aged 22, so he is not GB.

SideKick
02-06-2010, 08:01 AM
That was on a ledger he kept for child support payments that he kept in the BFH. The last entry said "ACE lost".

~ Maybe just me, but I find this very interesting GW wrote 'lost'. I wish I would have a lightbulb moment with this one, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment.

OzzieMum
02-07-2010, 02:19 AM
I have copied raf's post below from the "Who was George Brody" thread as it seems to have been overlooked, and I think, because of the resemblance, he should be ruled out and I can't see that he has been.

Hi all, sorry for my english... from some months I following this search... I find it by web... maybe I can give a little help from my far country.... I thinked so much abt this story....
well I wish to ask annasmom:
please to see this
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1...plicantdo1.jpg

what you think? this descriptions, of same man in different ages, it could be adaptable to George Brody?
and this picture of same man, when young, give to you some idea ??
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9484/unknownlu5.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6439/unknow1zm4.jpg
I read all I found on internet abt this case and frankly my heart is with your heart dear annasmom...
Please to see very well the images ... just a bit of help...
best regards, raf

I have been studying the photos of the man in the passport photo and the one's of GB, both younger and older, and apart from the resemblance, I have noticed that all GB's facial features appear to be the opposite of the man in the passport photo eg; the raised eyebrows are on opposite sides and also the part in the hair, the turn in the nose, the slight downturn of the mouth and even the ears. Could the passport photo have been reversed somehow?

If you do a side by side you will see what I mean. You will need to use both photo's of GB to compare all the features as he is wearing glasses in the younger photo.

raf,

What was the name of the man in the passport photo? And where did you find it. I can't find that info anywhere.

Annasmom
02-07-2010, 02:55 AM
I have copied raf's post below from the "Who was George Brody" thread as it seems to have been overlooked, and I think, because of the resemblance, he should be ruled out and I can't see that he has been.

Hi all, sorry for my english... from some months I following this search... I find it by web... maybe I can give a little help from my far country.... I thinked so much abt this story....
well I wish to ask annasmom:
please to see this
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1...plicantdo1.jpg

what you think? this descriptions, of same man in different ages, it could be adaptable to George Brody?
and this picture of same man, when young, give to you some idea ??
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9484/unknownlu5.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6439/unknow1zm4.jpg
I read all I found on internet abt this case and frankly my heart is with your heart dear annasmom...
Please to see very well the images ... just a bit of help...
best regards, raf

I have been studying the photos of the man in the passport photo and the one's of GB, both younger and older, and apart from the resemblance, I have noticed that all GB's facial features appear to be the opposite of the man in the passport photo eg; the raised eyebrows are on opposite sides and also the part in the hair, the turn in the nose, the slight downturn of the mouth and even the ears. Could the passport photo have been reversed somehow?

If you do a side by side you will see what I mean. You will need to use both photo's of GB to compare all the features as he is wearing glasses in the younger photo.

raf,

What was the name of the man in the passport photo? And where did you find it. I can't find that info anywhere.

Ozziemum, can you tell me the number on Raf's original post which you copied? I do remember looking at these photographs before.This man resembles Brody somewhat except that his hairline is higher than Brody's was when I first met him as an older man. I don't know what the impression was when the pictures first came up (the first link doesn't work for me.) I don't know if you've seen any of the old posts about the boxer who looked EXACTLY like Brody (one member did an overlay of their photos which matched), but who turned out after a great deal of research not to be Brody. I believe there was other information about this fellow. Certainly the image could have been reversed. The second and third links are the same picture with different proportions.

Cubby
02-07-2010, 03:46 AM
I'm not 100% but IIRC the man in the pictures Ozziemum linked was a George B with a different surname than Brody. Raf found a living niece or daughter of his who, like the living Kukoda family member who was upset about the allegations against Margaret because she clearly had nothing to do with Annas disappearance, was upset at her family member being accused of being involved with Anna's disappearance. Sometime not much later Doogie was able to find and make contact with a different family member who was able to provide Doogie with some verifiable documentation ( a copy of something ) and this person was ruled out. IIRC, that verifiable documentation might have had verification of either a date of birth, or date the man in the picture passed.....

I do know that whatever it was that ruled him out was a definate no lingering question.

hth.. It's late and I should be in bed, but not ready to yet. ;)

OzzieMum
02-07-2010, 04:23 AM
Ozziemum, can you tell me the number on Raf's original post which you copied? I do remember looking at these photographs before.This man resembles Brody somewhat except that his hairline is higher than Brody's was when I first met him as an older man. I don't know what the impression was when the pictures first came up (the first link doesn't work for me.) I don't know if you've seen any of the old posts about the boxer who looked EXACTLY like Brody (one member did an overlay of their photos which matched), but who turned out after a great deal of research not to be Brody. I believe there was other information about this fellow. Certainly the image could have been reversed. The second and third links are the same picture with different proportions.

Hi Annasmom,

raf's post is number 288.

If the boxer you mention is Dalton, I agree that there is a very strong family resemblance to GB but they seem to be a very tall family, which GB wasn't. I've had a good look at him and his family today. If you think it is worth while researching their family tree through ancestry, let me know.

The first image link was a physical description of the man in the passport photo which matched GB (I don't know why it is not working in my post but it is still working in raf's original post).

Did you meet GB before or after the younger photo of him was taken? The younger photo shows him with a really receding hairline and in the older photo he has the "comb over" :sick: Sorry, I prefer a bald man to a comb over.

Can you see the "reversed" facial features I'm talking about? (the second image link, first photo, is the better one to use, the third image link, second photo, is a bit distorted). I hope this makes sense.

raf
02-07-2010, 05:12 AM
Hi,
I have the folder abt the search of this man..
Him name was very similar.. GA Brady..
I searched anything abt him and- only for a cause- I no searched more, because the birth date is much different (and so much far from probable birth year 1905/6 by the article that I found of 1941- but at this time search I having not the article, I found it in successive time) ...

the man in picture, GAB, was born in NY 20 Sep 1879 but sometimes declaring 15 oct 1879; no doubts that it was same person..

This man was my first search, and I know that he was (or studying) for to be a priest (almost when he was young); but in all honesty, I found some trip with "rev" word on the name... so maybe was a priest for period time....
by censuses I know that he never working, he was "at school" in 1900 ... in 1910 he declaring him age of 24( instead he was of 31).. in 1920 he declaring of being 30 old; false, he was 41 old..

this man changing the birthyear by censuses, but no doubt that is same man.. and becoming more young with passing time....

Matching for: eyes, the face, the size, the family's money... maybe matching for religious knowdlege... matching for lies abt the age, matching for "Italy" link, I know that he travelled in Italy also....
but matching not for: birthyear.... and handwriting, almost the handwriting when he was more young (by passport signature)...

I lost him traces around the 1929 ...
I wish to post here some pictures, but I wish hope that all members will call it only GAB ....
GAB expired passport 1922:
pag 1 http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9867/georgeaugustinbradypag1.jpg
pag 2 http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4416/georgeaugustinbradypag2.jpg

GAB passport 1920:
pag 1 http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7007/georgeaugustinbradyfirs.jpg
pag 2 http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7007/georgeaugustinbradyfirs.jpg
the witness was the Rev Edward A Sullivan of Fordham University ( in 1912 Carl Gustave Young made a conference in Fordham University of NY abt the numerology also and/or similar things )....

what is strange, it is that in second passport nobody made the witness, but sure GAB had again another and successive passport because he back in USA in 1929
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5862/georgeaugustinbrady1929.jpg
the address in this ship's manifest is not the usual address, but in 1930 in the same address living a woman with 2 daughters, Brady surname... I no found this marriage record... and no further traces ...

I lost him trace from this date.. I searched in NY death database and he no died almost until 1948...
all the best,
raf

Odyssey
02-07-2010, 01:04 PM
Does anyone recall if 630 Geary (Hotel Abby) is where JF did the surveillance, and was it the place where GB/GW died? I'm getting confused with the different hotels...

Annasmom
02-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Does anyone recall if 630 Geary (Hotel Abby) is where JF did the surveillance, and was it the place where GB/GW died? I'm getting confused with the different hotels...

Joe Ford’s notes Jan. 20, 1982

On Jan. 19, 1982 GHW’s sister-in-law called and said they had been informed on 1/11/82 that GW had been found dead in his room in the Abbey Hotel. GW’s brother went to the hotel and collected all paperwork and files from Room 206 and a room on the fourth floor. On Monday 11/11/82 the brother spoke with the coroner, who said there was a suicide note which is in his possession. After tracking down bills and assets papers were turned over to Joe Ford. Although JF said there were no papers found regarding GB, closer scrutiny recently uncovered bills for clothing for GB.

Odyssey
02-07-2010, 05:41 PM
Joe Ford’s notes Jan. 20, 1982

On Jan. 19, 1982 GHW’s sister-in-law called and said they had been informed on 1/11/82 that GW had been found dead in his room in the Abbey Hotel. GW’s brother went to the hotel and collected all paperwork and files from Room 206 and a room on the fourth floor. On Monday 11/11/82 the brother spoke with the coroner, who said there was a suicide note which is in his possession. After tracking down bills and assets papers were turned over to Joe Ford. Although JF said there were no papers found regarding GB, closer scrutiny recently uncovered bills for clothing for GB.

Thanks!! Is this 630 Geary also where JF did the surveillance, do you know? City directories show him living there in 1972-1973 but I'm not sure if that was where JF watched them or if that could have been "the other hotel"...

Cubby
02-07-2010, 05:49 PM
Good questions odyssey. I'm getting confused here too. I recall that the two G's lived in two different hotels because they could not live in one for more than 30 days at a time. Some kind of rule at the hotels back then...... so they went back and forth between two, but that was not known until after Anna dissappeared and I don't recall how much later that info was found out.

Oh Joe Ford, come out come out where ever you are and please clarify this hotel stuff for us! I miss seeing you post here! I know your reading from time to time, just not posting.... Sorry if that put you on the spot, didn't mean to, but your input and participation here is very much valued!

Odyssey
02-07-2010, 09:17 PM
On the Childrens Hospital papers with "George Bee" there is a name of Gwen Mitchell handwritten with a phone number. I searched the physicians licenses and nurses licenses and did not find her listed on either.

I also googled her name & her phone number but did not find anything pertinent... it also didn't bring up any WS threads on google so has anyone tried to figure out who she was? I was really hoping she was a home nurse or something...

Odyssey
02-07-2010, 09:19 PM
Oh Joe Ford, come out come out where ever you are and please clarify this hotel stuff for us! I miss seeing you post here! I know your reading from time to time, just not posting.... Sorry if that put you on the spot, didn't mean to, but your input and participation here is very much valued!

I second that!!!

Annasmom
02-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Good questions odyssey. I'm getting confused here too. I recall that the two G's lived in two different hotels because they could not live in one for more than 30 days at a time. Some kind of rule at the hotels back then...... so they went back and forth between two, but that was not known until after Anna dissappeared and I don't recall how much later that info was found out.

Oh Joe Ford, come out come out where ever you are and please clarify this hotel stuff for us! I miss seeing you post here! I know your reading from time to time, just not posting.... Sorry if that put you on the spot, didn't mean to, but your input and participation here is very much valued!

Joe Ford can verify this, but when he interviewed the desk clerk at the Abby or Abbey Hotel in January of 1982, the clerk said GB and GW had been in the hotel ten years: "They were there when it was owned by the Indian family" and that they were there when the clerk took over as manager five years before, on the first of September. At the beginning of the interview, Joe said "I stayed at your hotel for a while under the name of Boger", so this was the same hotel, though it may have changed names at some point.

SideKick
02-07-2010, 10:28 PM
On the Childrens Hospital papers with "George Bee" there is a name of Gwen Mitchell handwritten with a phone number. I searched the physicians licenses and nurses licenses and did not find her listed on either.

I also googled her name & her phone number but did not find anything pertinent... it also didn't bring up any WS threads on google so has anyone tried to figure out who she was? I was really hoping she was a home nurse or something...

Googling Gwen Mitchell, quite a few Gwendolyn Mitchell's come up one a spokesperson for Santa Clara talking about earthquakes.

My apologies for the long url's, I'm not sure how to shorten them.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:eY5nBsuhqNEJ:www.sfexaminer.com/local/Quake-rattles-SF-East-Bay-80921122.html+Gwen+Mitchell+children%27s+hospital+ san+francisco&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

The other one here includes a phone number..
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:hq9UMV9tzb8J:www.sccvote.org/portal/site/d5/agencychp%3Fpath%3D%252Fv7%252FSupervisor%2520Liz% 2520Kniss%2520-%2520District%25205%2520(BOS)%252FNewsroom%252FAnn ouncements+Gwen+Mitchell+children%27s+hospital+san +francisco&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca


County to Host Conference on Domestic Violence

Santa Clara County Domestic Violence Council Partners with Professionals, County and Representatives to Eliminate Domestic Violence in the Community

CONTACT: Gwen Mitchell/Marina Hinestrosa Office of Public Affairs (408) 299-5119 Esther Peralez-Dieckmann Office of Women’s Policy (408) 299-5142

There is also a Gwendolyn Mitchell who is a prison guard at Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla who was sued along with other official in a wrongful death.


Corrections Department sued by family of Chowchilla inmate

Friday, November 30, 2001


(11-30) 16:31 PST CHOWCHILLA, Calif. (AP) -- The family of one of several prisoners who died at Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla a year ago sued the state Friday, alleging negligence. The suit filed in the United States District Court in Fresno alleges prison officials failed to provide Stephanie Janet Hardie with timely and adequate medical care and were guilty negligent supervision and abuse of a dependent adult. Hardie, 34, of Pomona had an enlarged heart when she died Dec. 9, one of several mysterious inmate deaths that prison officials for a time worried might have been from improper sharing of prescription drugs or some other common cause.

That turned out not to be the case, according to University of California doctors who investigated the deaths at the request of the California Department of Corrections. Dr. Kathleen Clanon, a University of California, San Francisco physician who investigated Hardie's death, said Hardie should have received better medical treatment after she complained about chest and stomach pain and shortness of breath. Friday's suit was filed by Hardie's mother, Diane Hardie-Rios, on her own behalf and on behalf of Hardie's two children, Nicole, 15, and Jason, 14.

The suit names the Correction Department's former director, Cal Terhune, prison warden Gwendolyn Mitchell, and 10 unknown prison employees the suit alleges should have provided better care. Hardie's attorney, Robert Bastian, said he anticipates additional prison employees will be named in the suit as more information becomes available. Corrections Department spokeswoman Terry Thornton said she hadn't seen the suit and couldn't immediately comment.


Warden Gwendolyn Mitchell / Acting Director Steve Cambra
Central California Women's Facility California Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 1501 P.O. Box 942883
Chowchilla, CA 93610 Sacramento, CA 94283
Phone: (559) 665-5531 Phone: (916) 445-7688
Fax: (559) 665-7158 Fax: (916) 322-2877

Could be nothing but had to post the tele numbers.

Odyssey
02-07-2010, 11:21 PM
Joe Ford can verify this, but when he interviewed the desk clerk at the Abby or Abbey Hotel in January of 1982, the clerk said GB and GW had been in the hotel ten years: "They were there when it was owned by the Indian family" and that they were there when the clerk took over as manager five years before, on the first of September. At the beginning of the interview, Joe said "I stayed at your hotel for a while under the name of Boger", so this was the same hotel, though it may have changed names at some point.

Just an FYI I do have the names of the managers (two different people) for that hotel in 1972 & 1973. One of them would have been the manager when Anna went missing. Not sure if I'm allowed to post their names but if anyone wants them feel free to PM me... and yes it was called the Paul Hotel in 1972-1973, it was the Abby in 1982.

Joe Ford
02-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Joe Ford can verify this, but when he interviewed the desk clerk at the Abby or Abbey Hotel in January of 1982, the clerk said GB and GW had been in the hotel ten years: "They were there when it was owned by the Indian family" and that they were there when the clerk took over as manager five years before, on the first of September. At the beginning of the interview, Joe said "I stayed at your hotel for a while under the name of Boger", so this was the same hotel, though it may have changed names at some point.

The Abby Hotel and the Paul Hotel are one and the same. In the 70's the hotel was owned by the Patel (sp) family, a large East Indian family with small hotel holdings thruout the U.S. The hotel was sold and the name changed some time after 1973.

Joe Ford
02-08-2010, 11:45 AM
That was on a ledger he kept for child support payments that he kept in the BFH. The last entry said "ACE lost".

I agree. "ACE (Anna) lost" is certainly a bewildering entry to post. Impossible to get inside George Waters' head, but under the circumstances why would he write anything at all? And why not "missing"?

doublestop
02-08-2010, 01:33 PM
I have been following this story on Websleuths for a long time but have never felt I had anything helpful to contribute. Anna certainly captures the heart.

The use of "lost" struck me also...but it might make sense if the Georges actually WEREN'T involved in the disappearance and he thought she fell into the creek...a doctor "loses" a patient...so since he was a physician he well might have worded it that way if he thought she was no longer with us.

SideKick
02-08-2010, 01:44 PM
I agree. "ACE (Anna) lost" is certainly a bewildering entry to post. Impossible to get inside George Waters' head, but under the circumstances why would he write anything at all? And why not "missing"?

Hi Joe!

How long after Anna disappeared did you go to the Tenderloin to surveillence the two George's? I ask due to LE saying they were not seen for a full week after Anna vanished?

And yes, 'lost' is really weird to me.... did they just let her go in the midst of America on some road? Is there any truth to this? JMHO

Thank so much!

Annasmom
02-08-2010, 01:50 PM
I have been following this story on Websleuths for a long time but have never felt I had anything helpful to contribute. Anna certainly captures the heart.

The use of "lost" struck me also...but it might make sense if the Georges actually WEREN'T involved in the disappearance and he thought she fell into the creek...a doctor "loses" a patient...so since he was a physician her well might have worded it that way if he thought she was no longer with us.
Thanks for posting, Doublestop. George Waters would believe anything Brody told him, since he believed Brody was all-knowing (a belief obviously disproved by a number of circumstances.) Remember his comment Joe Ford tape-recorded, "I'm glad the tot is dead". If Brody made a pronouncement, GW took it as gospel. Still, the use of the word "lost" implies some emotional involvement which was countered by GW's immediate inquiry as to whether he had to pay child support for January and whether he could still claim Anna as a dependent on his tax return.

Odyssey
02-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Good to see you here, JF!!

Cubby
02-08-2010, 02:43 PM
With permission from Odyssey:

Odyssey noticed GB's unclaimed funds no longer appear at the state of California's site for unclaimed property. I went and couldn't find the listing either. While I doubt someone came forward and claimed the funds I think we need to review this possibility. I recall, but from where?, that after so many years unclaimed funds become property of the state. I can't seem to find anywhere which lists the circumstances and time for any unclaimed funds to become property of the state. This has occured to me from time to time over the last few years as I thought it was quite some time, more than 25 years, this property was still made public and not claimed by the state. Perhaps 29 years is the time limit?

Does anyone know anything out state law/rules regarding this? :waitasec: Help! TIA!

MagicRose99
02-08-2010, 04:27 PM
According to the State Controllers FAQ there is no time limit to claim "unclaimed" property in California

"The unclaimed property account is held in perpetuity for the owner, or the owner's heirs, until a claim is received and paid"

http://sco.ca.gov/upd_faq_claim.html#sect2216

Odyssey
02-08-2010, 04:35 PM
By any chance did anyone happen to print or write down the ID number on that property?? I will call the controllers office but I think that ID # might be helpful?

Doogie... you might be my only hope on this...

Odyssey
02-08-2010, 04:43 PM
Is anyone near Sacramento?

Found this on the controllers website:

Notice To Investigators
Order Form - November 2009
Estates of Deceased Persons and Alpha Files Microfiche Release
(November 13, 2009) On October 21, 2009, the Unclaimed Property Division (UPD) updated the County Estates of Deceased Persons and Alpha files on microfiche. The microfiche will be available for purchase beginning at 8:00 a.m. on Friday, November 20, 2009, at the UPD offices. Read or Print Entire Notice

System Maintenance Error
(August 19, 2009) The purpose of this notice is to inform you that due to a glitch in our system, properties were posted to our website that have already been paid. These properties appeared on our website between Sunday, August 16, 2009, 1:00 a.m. and Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:15 p.m. Read or Print Entire Notice

Order Form - April 2009
CD-ROM and May 2009 Microfiche Releases
(April 2009) The seven disk CD set containing abandoned property account information is now available to Heir Finders for purchase or review. Notice to Investigators and Price List - May 2009

Joe Ford
02-08-2010, 05:02 PM
That was on a ledger he kept for child support payments that he kept in the BFH. The last entry said "ACE lost".


Hi Joe!

How long after Anna disappeared did you go to the Tenderloin to surveillence the two George's? I ask due to LE saying they were not seen for a full week after Anna vanished?

And yes, 'lost' is really weird to me.... did they just let her go in the midst of America on some road? Is there any truth to this? JMHO

Thank so much!

It may have been as long as a month before I turned my eyes more closely on Waters/Brody. Up 'till then we were concentrating on searching the creek and surrounding areas closer to the ranch.

The quote attributed to LE is misleading. Annasmom informed LE almost immediately regards Anna's father, GW. and the possibility of his involvement. They started surveillance within days. I don't believe that GW or GB deviated at all from their normal weird schedule. Annasmom probably has more accurate information if necessary.

Odyssey
02-08-2010, 05:28 PM
By any chance did anyone happen to print or write down the ID number on that property?? I will call the controllers office but I think that ID # might be helpful?

Doogie... you might be my only hope on this...

FOUND IT!

Someone was nice enough to copy and paste the info from the unclaimed property website into the forum - I have sent an email to the controllers office to see what I can find out. <fingers crossed>

Annasmom
02-08-2010, 06:33 PM
It may have been as long as a month before I turned my eyes more closely on Waters/Brody. Up 'till then we were concentrating on searching the creek and surrounding areas closer to the ranch.

The quote attributed to LE is misleading. Annasmom informed LE almost immediately regards Anna's father, GW. and the possibility of his involvement. They started surveillance within days. I don't believe that GW or GB deviated at all from their normal weird schedule. Annasmom probably has more accurate information if necessary.

On Jan. 25, (then) Sergeant Maguire said that GW was living with GB in San Francisco, so he was following them before that time. On Jan. 31, Maguire said that the two had not been seen at the hotel for more than a week. (This is from my journal at the time and is in chapter eight of Searching for Anna.)

SideKick
02-09-2010, 11:09 AM
It may have been as long as a month before I turned my eyes more closely on Waters/Brody. Up 'till then we were concentrating on searching the creek and surrounding areas closer to the ranch.

The quote attributed to LE is misleading. Annasmom informed LE almost immediately regards Anna's father, GW. and the possibility of his involvement. They started surveillance within days. I don't believe that GW or GB deviated at all from their normal weird schedule. Annasmom probably has more accurate information if necessary.

~ Thanks Joe, I appreciate what you're saying, and yes, one would automatically believe something happened on the property with Anna.


~ Does anyone know if back in '73 a parent could put their child on their passport if flying overseas? My husband came from Germany in '60, he and his brother have their photos in their mother's passport with pertinent details listed on their mother's passport they did not have their own. My husband was 5 years old at the time he moved from Germany to Canada.

one_hooah_wife
02-16-2010, 02:39 PM
You may have already seen this draft card but I wanted to post it just in case. I have come across it before but due to the birth date -- July 12, 1886, never looked at the actual document until just now. This GB has a very similar handwriting style as our GB. Is it possible that he could have been born much earlier than we first thought??

SideKick
02-16-2010, 06:00 PM
You may have already seen this draft card but I wanted to post it just in case. I have come across it before but due to the birth date -- July 12, 1886, never looked at the actual document until just now. This GB has a very similar handwriting style as our GB. Is it possible that he could have been born much earlier than we first thought??

~

Interesting one hooha! I'm not sure, I will have to look at his writing again, his signature on the 'Kilroy' photo is printed, and printed badly at that...

Attached is the Kilroy photo.. On 123people.com there is a Marguerite Kilroy in San Fran age... 117! / 74 yrs / and 76 if anyone on the west coast dares calls to ask if she had a photo studio.

http://www.123people.ca/s/marguerite+kilroy/united+states


Would there be a probability, the M on the Squibbs is Marguerite? I rather doubt it as Brody would have been in touch with her for decades. I feel this photo was taken in the 40's looking at his tie.

Annasmom
02-16-2010, 09:33 PM
~

Interesting one hooha! I'm not sure, I will have to look at his writing again, his signature on the 'Kilroy' photo is printed, and printed badly at that...

Attached is the Kilroy photo.. On 123people.com there is a Marguerite Kilroy in San Fran age... 117! / 74 yrs / and 76 if anyone on the west coast dares calls to ask if she had a photo studio.

http://www.123people.ca/s/marguerite+kilroy/united+states


Would there be a probability, the M on the Squibbs is Marguerite? I rather doubt it as Brody would have been in touch with her for decades. I feel this photo was taken in the 40's looking at his tie.
We know that she had a photo studio in San Francisco; someone was trying to sell one of her photos on e-Bay. I doubt seriously if she was a friend of Brody's.

OzzieMum
02-17-2010, 03:46 AM
~

Interesting one hooha! I'm not sure, I will have to look at his writing again, his signature on the 'Kilroy' photo is printed, and printed badly at that...

Attached is the Kilroy photo.. On 123people.com there is a Marguerite Kilroy in San Fran age... 117! / 74 yrs / and 76 if anyone on the west coast dares calls to ask if she had a photo studio.

http://www.123people.ca/s/marguerite+kilroy/united+states


Would there be a probability, the M on the Squibbs is Marguerite? I rather doubt it as Brody would have been in touch with her for decades. I feel this photo was taken in the 40's looking at his tie.

I find the inscription on this photo interesting. It strikes me as something you would write on a photo of yourself to give to a 'love interest' in your life.

Or maybe I'm just a romantic at heart :)

OzzieMum
02-17-2010, 03:51 AM
Annasmom,

Do you have the original Kilroy photo? Back in the dinosaur days, pre digital cameras, they used to print the date on the back of photos.

Julessleuther
02-17-2010, 01:02 PM
Wow--really good work. It does look like the writing is VERY similar. The R's and the E's are almost exactly alike. Hooah, you may have found the right George Brody. I am off to look on ancestry for some history on this guy!


You may have already seen this draft card but I wanted to post it just in case. I have come across it before but due to the birth date -- July 12, 1886, never looked at the actual document until just now. This GB has a very similar handwriting style as our GB. Is it possible that he could have been born much earlier than we first thought??

Julessleuther
02-17-2010, 01:26 PM
It appears that the George Brody on the draft card died in 1963 in Los Angeles. (According to some family tree records) Those same records show he was married to a Fannie (Hobson) Brody, but the draft cards state he was married to a Myrtle, so I am checking both wives. Fannie died in 1968, but perhaps they divorced long before. He and Fannie did have several children together. (I did find some other info that I think is this same George w/ a wife named Nellie-according to 1930 census info) I did find a WWI draft card for this same Brody. (Attached)

I did also find a SSDI listing for him--he died in Sep 1963, but no exact date or location, so maybe he did not really die?

Annasmom
02-17-2010, 04:42 PM
Annasmom,

Do you have the original Kilroy photo? Back in the dinosaur days, pre digital cameras, they used to print the date on the back of photos.
It was in a kind of cardboard frame, but when I took it out, I didn't find a date on the back. However, I DID find something I've never looked at before: A typed, undated letter to "Margie" (obviously composed by GB and typed by GW) postmarked May 12, 1967, addressed to Mary Kay at the Noe Street address and forwarded to Con S. Shea, public administrator, at 1212 Market Street, San Francisco 94102. The return address on the envelope says 625 Market Street, Third Floor, Room 300-308, San Francisco 94105 (it is a printed address which may not be the address of the sender.) The content is the usual paranoid baloney.

SherlockJr
02-17-2010, 07:50 PM
It was in a kind of cardboard frame, but when I took it out, I didn't find a date on the back. However, I DID find something I've never looked at before: A typed, undated letter to "Margie" (obviously composed by GB and typed by GW) postmarked May 12, 1967, addressed to Mary Kay at the Noe Street address and forwarded to Con S. Shea, public administrator, at 1212 Market Street, San Francisco 94102. The return address on the envelope says 625 Market Street, Third Floor, Room 300-308, San Francisco 94105 (it is a printed address which may not be the address of the sender.) The content is the usual paranoid baloney.

Annasmom, isn't Con S. Shea the person who signed Anna's birth certificate?

Julessleuther
02-17-2010, 08:15 PM
So this is a letter GB wrote to Margaret before she died? So the writing on the front of the photo must have been for her. Please, if you would, what does the letter say? Perhaps a clue in there?

Annasmom
02-17-2010, 08:46 PM
So this is a letter GB wrote to Margaret before she died? So the writing on the front of the photo must have been for her. Please, if you would, what does the letter say? Perhaps a clue in there?

I'll scan it and post it. I didn't really see anything, but you never know.

Annasmom
02-17-2010, 08:50 PM
Here's what the Public Administrator (to whom "Mary Kay"s letter had been forwarded) does:
Public Administrator
When a San Francisco resident dies and there are no family members able or willing to take care of his or her affairs, the Office of the Public Administrator will manage the estate. The Public Administrator searches for family members and wills, arranges for disposition of remains, locates and manages all assets, monitors creditor claims, reviews taxes and provides all services necessary to administer each estate through distribution to heirs and beneficiaries.

The work of the Public Administrator is defined by the California Probate Code. The Public Administrator receives and investigates 300 to 500 new referrals each year. In about half of these cases, the Superior Court appoints the department as administrator of the estate. The average time span of an estate from referral to final disposition by the court is 2.5 years. Under state law, the department is required to present to the court a detailed accounting of all client assets, debts, payments, obligations, and any other relevant fact regarding the estate.

Annasmom
02-17-2010, 09:01 PM
Here are copies of the envelope and the letter (unsigned, as you see) which appears to be a carbon copy of a typed letter.

Annasmom
02-17-2010, 11:20 PM
Annasmom, isn't Con S. Shea the person who signed Anna's birth certificate?
No, that was Ellis D. Sox, the director of public health and local registrar. But, knowing your prodigious memory, I did have to look it up, as I thought you were probably right.

OzzieMum
02-18-2010, 03:20 AM
Annasmom, isn't Con S. Shea the person who signed Anna's birth certificate?

Hi SherlockJr,

Copying your post from 'Who was George Brody' post# 741.

Just wanted to update everyone with what we've been looking at in the past few days. I have spoken with the crematory in CA who performed the cremation of Margaret K. to get a name of "anyone" who would have signed her papers. I was told the signature belonged to "Con S. Shea". Further research shows the San Francisco Public Administrator was Con T. Shea. I forwarded the handwriting of GB to the crematory to see if they could determine if the same handwriting as GB. They replied back saying they did not look the same. If there is anyone in the local San Francisco area not far from the courthouse who can look up the filing of MK's estate, we may actually find who George Brody really was.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN has found census for Con Shea in 1930, he was an insurance broker.

Another search we found Con T. Shea was also a notary. He responded to TIME magazine about an article. This really sounds like something GB would say:

Sirs:
That smart crack you made in your issue of Jan. 31 about nosy notaries being unable to see figures on the 1937 income tax blanks because of one of Magill's reforms in putting the affidavit on the back instead of the front ! . . . I am most surprised that it did not dawn upon TIME . . . that before a notary can certify to any instrument, it must be looked over carefully to see that it is properly filled out.
While I have a long nose, it is not nosy enough to give a damn what figures appear on anyone's income tax statement, and I guess I certify as many as any notary. . . .
CON T. SHEA
Notary Public
San Francisco, Calif.

OzzieMum
02-18-2010, 03:30 AM
Here are copies of the envelope and the letter (unsigned, as you see) which appears to be a carbon copy of a typed letter.

Need to re-read this letter a couple of times on the weekend when I have a bit more time to absorb it properly, but I think Margie's friends saw though GB right from the start.

I have to wonder who Margie's friends and GB's enemies were.

The reference to politics is also interesting. Who is Thomas Dewey? Sorry, not from the US.

raf
02-18-2010, 06:51 AM
hi, a article of Oakland Tribune 4 Jan 1972 abt Con Shea-Public Administrator Guardian of San Francisco:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9906/conshea4jan1972.jpg
raf

SherlockJr
02-18-2010, 11:13 AM
Here are copies of the envelope and the letter (unsigned, as you see) which appears to be a carbon copy of a typed letter.

Wasn't MK in the hospital at least 6 months before she died? Could she not even been aware of this letter? or was this letter written earlier when he first met MK?

In his letter he speaks of the "late" Thomas Dewey of NY. Dewey died in 1971, but by 1967 he was no longer in the political arena which could be why he used the word "late".

The envelope is the original envelope stamped by Shea's office. How did GB get the original envelope back into his posession?

OzzieMum
02-18-2010, 03:37 PM
Wasn't MK in the hospital at least 6 months before she died? Could she not even been aware of this letter? or was this letter written earlier when he first met MK?

In his letter he speaks of the "late" Thomas Dewey of NY. Dewey died in 1971, but by 1967 he was no longer in the political arena which could be why he used the word "late".

The envelope is the original envelope stamped by Shea's office. How did GB get the original envelope back into his posession?

My guess would be that MK's mail was re-directed to Shae's office and he returned it to GB after MK died.

MK had living family so why would her estate have been handled by a public administrator? Maybe GB told the she had no family in the hopes of benefiting from her estate?

Annasmom
02-18-2010, 03:44 PM
My guess would be that MK's mail was re-directed to Shae's office and he returned it to GB after MK died.

MK had living family so why would her estate have been handled by a public administrator? Maybe GB told the she had no family in the hopes of benefiting from her estate?
See Post 271...Evidently there was no family member willing to act, and I don't think she had much of an estate except POSSIBLY a life insurance policy with Brody as the beneficiary (no proof of this, however.) I don't understand how this wound up with Brody's papers in that particular envelope with that receive-date stamp. Very odd. I do remember that Brody brought a couple of things to the house to give GW after Margaret died, including her stethoscope and maybe even a microscope. He was very secretive about this, however.

SideKick
02-18-2010, 04:38 PM
Thomas Dewey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_E._Dewey

Dewey rocketed to fame in 1935, when he was appointed special prosecutor in New York County (Manhattan) by Governor Herbert H. Lehman. A "runaway grand jury" had publicly complained that William C. Dodge, the District Attorney, was not aggressively pursuing the mob and political corruption. Lehman, to avoid charges of partisanship, asked four prominent Republicans to serve as special prosecutor. All four refused and recommended Dewey.[6]

Dewey moved ahead vigorously. He recruited a staff of over 60 assistants, investigators, process servers, stenographers, and clerks. New York Mayor Fiorello H. La Guardia assigned a picked squad of 63 police officers to Dewey's office.

Maybe Brody assisted Dewey?

~~

Margaret Kukoda - For Reference Only

Easton Express Newspaper
>>> Saturday, Aug. 5, 1967
>>> Page 22
>>>
>>> *Miss Kukoda, 50, Former Navy Nurse* Miss Margaret M. Kukoda, 50, a
>>> former area resident died in Laguan, Calif. Thursday. She resided in
>>> San Francisco.
>>> Miss Kukoda was born March 1, 1917, in Montana, N.J. She was a
>>> daughter of the late Anthony and Esther Orban Kukoda.
>>> She was graduated from Easton High School in 1934. She received
>>> degrees in nursing from Vassar Brothers Hospital, Poughkeepsie,
>>> N.Y., and Vassar College.
>>> Miss Kukoda entered the U.S. Navy in 1942 as a nurse. She was
>>> discharged in San Francisco in 1946 with the rank of lieutenant
>>> (j.g.) She continued nursing in San Francisco until the time of her death.
>>>
>>> The Snyder Funeral Home in Riegelsville is in
>>> charge of arrangements.

~~
George B quoted 'mediocity pays to genius' a few times, in Squibbs 28/29 and in this letter to Margie.
Fulton J. Sheen was the creator of this quote. He was an Archbishop.

He speaks alot (again) about politics, we thought once before he may have had involvement in US Politics..


Fulton Sheen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_J._Sheen

Annasmom
02-18-2010, 07:48 PM
Thomas Dewey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_E._Dewey

Dewey rocketed to fame in 1935, when he was appointed special prosecutor in New York County (Manhattan) by Governor Herbert H. Lehman.....

Maybe Brody assisted Dewey?

~~

Margaret Kukoda - For Reference Only

Easton Express Newspaper
>>> Saturday, Aug. 5, 1967
>>> Page 22
>>>
>>> *Miss Kukoda, 50, Former Navy Nurse* Miss Margaret M. Kukoda, 50, a
>>> former area resident died in Laguan, Calif. Thursday. She resided in
>>> San Francisco.
>>> Miss Kukoda was born March 1, 1917, in Montana, N.J. She was a
>>> daughter of the late Anthony and Esther Orban Kukoda.
>>> She was graduated from Easton High School in 1934. She received
>>> degrees in nursing from Vassar Brothers Hospital, Poughkeepsie,
>>> N.Y., and Vassar College.
>>> Miss Kukoda entered the U.S. Navy in 1942 as a nurse. She was
>>> discharged in San Francisco in 1946 with the rank of lieutenant
>>> (j.g.) She continued nursing in San Francisco until the time of her death.
>>>
>>> The Snyder Funeral Home in Riegelsville is in
>>> charge of arrangements.

~~
George B quoted 'mediocity pays to genius' a few times, in Squibbs 28/29 and in this letter to Margie.
Fulton J. Sheen was the creator of this quote. He was an Archbishop.

He speaks alot (again) about politics, we thought once before he may have had involvement in US Politics..


Fulton Sheen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_J._Sheen

I do not believe GB had any role in politics rather than expressing his point of view to anybody who would listen. GW's shrink dismissed Brody's remarks as "the thing you could hear at any bar in the city". Dewey: Didn't he run for president against Truman or somebody? And Margaret...interesting how Laguna Honda hospital became the town of Laguan, which is not a town as far as I know. What town was this newspaper clipping from? I wonder who gave out the information. Maybe the funeral home which did the cremation. But almost certainly their informant was Brody.

Cubby
02-18-2010, 10:06 PM
Sidekick, can you add the link to the newspaper article?

It is also possible MK's family provided the information for an obituary. I don't think GB would have spent the money on one knowing his philosophy on money. It would also be understandable considering her family was likely unaware of her arrest and losing her nursing license. Could the spelling of Laguan be a typo? I've noticed a lot of typo's in the older archived news articles- from all over, not any geographical location or news paper in particular.

SideKick
02-19-2010, 11:39 AM
Hi Cubby and All,

This information was sent to me by a searcher 2 years ago.

http://www.eastonpl.org/ObitPDF/1967.pdf
Margaret is listed here. I didn't realize her middle name began with an M.

I have attached a PDF file of the newspaper clipping the searcher sent to me. Not sure how to convert (at this time) to a Word Doc.


Margaret Kukoda - For Reference Only

Easton Express Newspaper
>>> Saturday, Aug. 5, 1967
>>> Page 22
>>>
>>> *Miss Kukoda, 50, Former Navy Nurse* Miss Margaret M. Kukoda, 50, a
>>> former area resident died in Laguan, Calif. Thursday. She resided in
>>> San Francisco.
>>> Miss Kukoda was born March 1, 1917, in Montana, N.J. She was a
>>> daughter of the late Anthony and Esther Orban Kukoda.
>>> She was graduated from Easton High School in 1934. She received
>>> degrees in nursing from Vassar Brothers Hospital, Poughkeepsie,
>>> N.Y., and Vassar College.
>>> Miss Kukoda entered the U.S. Navy in 1942 as a nurse. She was
>>> discharged in San Francisco in 1946 with the rank of lieutenant
>>> (j.g.) She continued nursing in San Francisco until the time of her death.
>>>
>>> The Snyder Funeral Home in Riegelsville is in
>>> charge of arrangements.

SideKick
02-19-2010, 11:43 AM
Attached: Margaret's Death Certificate

SideKick
02-19-2010, 12:08 PM
Re-reading some of my older emails from a distant Kukoda relative from 2008 she suggested we try to track down the car accident that Margaret was in, perhaps there is a newspaper article which also may contain pertinent information for us.

Her Aunt recalls Margaret and this 'fellow' visiting from New York to PA they travelled by train before M entered the Navy. The man M was with wasn't happy she went into the navy. This period of visiting was 1941-45 before she moved to Cali.

She also suggested the name Brodt to me, I m not sure why tho, but there is another possibility for searching Brody.

Russell popped into the older Aunt's mind as well... the name Russell which we have already known about and tried to search.... The older Aunt recalls this man must have been 5-6 years older than Margaret.

SideKick
02-19-2010, 04:39 PM
Hi,

Not sure if this was discussed, if so please delete.

http://www.newspaperarchive.com/SearchResultsV3.aspx?fname=george&lname=brody


I do not have the subscription, perhaps another WS'er does....Names maybe abbreviated in glance article.. please note.

...machine driven by Richard C. Willis 2733 Woolsley Street, Berkeley at Van Ess Avenue and Union Street they were Mrs. Risi 2c25 Franklin Street Miss Ruth Clinpiuaii 2638 Franklin St. / mrs. w johnston run down by automobile driven by George Brody 25 Divisidaro SF/ Miss Ijcna Iciise 1457 Hyde Street, SF concussion of brain, fractured leg cuts and bruises...3 persons were hurt at First Avenue and Lakeshore Blvd by motorist who fled following triple clash, all were riding with....

Anyone have a subscription?

Cubby
02-22-2010, 04:01 PM
I vaguelly recall this 'accident' with the above George Brody but I can't recall if this was determined to be our George Brody, or the other George Brody who lived in SF at the same time.

Anyone remember? I don't recall who is still currently here at WS who has the newspaper archive membership, anyone?

raf
02-22-2010, 04:38 PM
The man in 1927 article was no our GB....
all the best,
raf

doublestop
02-22-2010, 08:18 PM
The full text of the paragraph about George Brody in the above newspaper archive clipping (from the Oakland Tribune, July 18, 1927, page 3) is:

"Run down by an automobile driven by George Brody, 325 Divisadero street, San Francisco, Miss Lena Kruse, 1457 Hyde street, San Francisco, received concussion of the brain, a fractured leg, cuts and bruises. "

Cubby
02-22-2010, 09:17 PM
http://www.archive.org/stream/polkscrockerlang1930dire#page/194/mode/2up

I hope the above link works. Is this the other George Brody that was living in SF with a Margaret? The one above has a middle initial of C.

It works. You just have to click on zoom and it opens to the correct page, than adjust or move a little to find Brody on the page.

Cubby
02-22-2010, 09:20 PM
Looky Looky! This is kind of like a kid in a candy store!
I just found this huge list of links to free access data bases in SF! Look around here at this site and see what else we can find.

I'm going to see if I can find something similiar for Oakland too! This might save some library trips!

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~npmelton/sfc.html#Lookups

I just took a quick look at the above list of links, holy cow! Lots and lots!

SideKick
02-25-2010, 02:17 PM
Hi Cubby!

Yes, I found that site to be pretty darn amazing!
I wanted to add yet another site which is very detailed.


Online Archive of California

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/

Typing in the AFL Oakland, I came up with this one: NOTE* Heaps and Heaps of info! Some is online, some one has to go to the archives -

box-_folder 14/10Journeymen Barbers, Hairdressers & Cosmetologists, #134

at this link:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf1f59n4vt;query=AFL Barber's Union oakland;style=oac4;view=dsc#c01-1.7.6.21

~

Also, http://www.library.sfsu.edu/about/depts/larc.php

The Library of San Francisco Archives

Cubby
02-27-2010, 09:16 AM
Thank you Sidekick. I've left a few messages for my sister about the union stuff but no call back from her yet. Will check out these links. Sorry, not meaning to drop the ball on that, but kind of running in all directions these last few weeks.

Cubby
03-04-2010, 07:03 PM
I'm running on exhaustion here, but before I forget..... or get another distraction.....

I started a one night per week for 11 weeks local free citizens police academy class hoping to expand and learn more avenues for my passion with sleuthing and advocating for the missing and unidentified. I LOVE the class, though while it was supposed to end at 9pm it ended about 10:30 last night... and I am just exhausted.

Why am I sharing that? because during the class last night and the information being taught a thought popped into my head regarding Annas case! (nothing like not having a lap top at that moment, lol).

We were discussing the foundations for which the US police were founded, based on the English principles.... and I had never known English PD's were sometimes called "Bobbies". Right away, I thought maybe that is why Margaret Kukoda called George "Bobby". Maybe she too bought into him being 'the great one' and she refered to him in this way.

Annasmom, you are most likely to recall GB's strange beliefs. Any thoughts on this?

Anyone else with a better knowledge of Englands history have any thoughts?

OzzieMum
03-05-2010, 03:53 AM
I'm running on exhaustion here, but before I forget..... or get another distraction.....

I started a one night per week for 11 weeks local free citizens police academy class hoping to expand and learn more avenues for my passion with sleuthing and advocating for the missing and unidentified. I LOVE the class, though while it was supposed to end at 9pm it ended about 10:30 last night... and I am just exhausted.

Why am I sharing that? because during the class last night and the information being taught a thought popped into my head regarding Annas case! (nothing like not having a lap top at that moment, lol).

We were discussing the foundations for which the US police were founded, based on the English principles.... and I had never known English PD's were sometimes called "Bobbies". Right away, I thought maybe that is why Margaret Kukoda called George "Bobby". Maybe she too bought into him being 'the great one' and she refered to him in this way.

Annasmom, you are most likely to recall GB's strange beliefs. Any thoughts on this?

Anyone else with a better knowledge of Englands history have any thoughts?

Hi Cubby,

I brought this up a while ago, not sure if it is earlier in this thread or in the first GB thread. (My Grandmother was Scottish and she always called a policeman a "Bobby" as they also did in England).

IIRC Annasmom said that a Dutch friend of her's had told her that Bobby was a kind of "pet" name, like a term of endearment and Annasmom thought this would be the more likely reason for Margaret calling GB Bobby.

I will have a look tomorrow and see if I can find Annasmom's reply for you.

Cubby
03-05-2010, 04:06 AM
Thanks Ozziemum. I probably missed your earlier post. I too thought of the nickname as a term of endearment, but at the time this popped into my head it registered as one of the theories of a possible real identity of GB. I believe you, no worries on finding Annasmoms post for supporting documentation.

thanks!

Annasmom
03-05-2010, 01:48 PM
Hi Cubby,

I brought this up a while ago, not sure if it is earlier in this thread or in the first GB thread. (My Grandmother was Scottish and she always called a policeman a "Bobby" as they also did in England).

IIRC Annasmom said that a Dutch friend of her's had told her that Bobby was a kind of "pet" name, like a term of endearment and Annasmom thought this would be the more likely reason for Margaret calling GB Bobby.

I will have a look tomorrow and see if I can find Annasmom's reply for you.

Yes, I thought it was a pet name (and possibly a clue to GB's real name). I really don't think he had anything to do with law enforcement or England. There was no trace of a foreign accent, and when he spoke of things outside the US, it was never more than what you could read in the newspaper.

OzzieMum
03-05-2010, 07:05 PM
Did anyone get any further with the union involvement and the possibility that GB was a barber? I thought that was a really good theory.

Julessleuther
03-06-2010, 06:22 PM
I found this, and while I know we have discussed this George Brody in the past, I thought it was interesting the facial resemblance, particularly around the nose. Could the GB we know of have been a brother, cousin etc of the George Brody linked to below? Or maybe GB knew this George Brody? Didn't Margaret come from this area (Lancaster/Southeastern PA) as well?

http://www.stevenscollege.edu/files/Site%20Images/Alum_Foundation/AlumFebruary%202009%20Newsletter.pdf Page 5

OzzieMum
03-06-2010, 08:14 PM
I found this, and while I know we have discussed this George Brody in the past, I thought it was interesting the facial resemblance, particularly around the nose. Could the GB we know of have been a brother, cousin etc of the George Brody linked to below? Or maybe GB knew this George Brody? Didn't Margaret come from this area (Lancaster/Southeastern PA) as well?

http://www.stevenscollege.edu/files/Site%20Images/Alum_Foundation/AlumFebruary%202009%20Newsletter.pdf

WOW. I haven't seen this GB before. I find it really interesting that this GB was an amateur boxer and our GB also claimed to be a boxer. Favorite sports tend to run in families because you grow up with that sport.

I also agree on the resemblance Julessleuther.

How much was this GB looked in to? Can anyone tell me where the discussions on this GB are?

It might be worth while finding out if his wife or son are still alive and see if they know anything about our GB.

Annasmom
03-06-2010, 08:37 PM
WOW. I haven't seen this GB before. I find it really interesting that this GB was an amateur boxer and our GB also claimed to be a boxer. Favorite sports tend to run in families because you grow up with that sport.

I also agree on the resemblance Julessleuther.

How much was this GB looked in to? Can anyone tell me where the discussions on this GB are?

It might be worth while finding out if his wife or son are still alive and see if they know anything about our GB.

I don't remember ever seeing this before.

Julessleuther
03-06-2010, 10:49 PM
Oh--I thought that we found another George that was a boxer, who turned out not to be the GB we are looking for. If he has not been looked into before, I will research him on ancestry!


WOW. I haven't seen this GB before. I find it really interesting that this GB was an amateur boxer and our GB also claimed to be a boxer. Favorite sports tend to run in families because you grow up with that sport.

I also agree on the resemblance Julessleuther.

How much was this GB looked in to? Can anyone tell me where the discussions on this GB are?

It might be worth while finding out if his wife or son are still alive and see if they know anything about our GB.

Julessleuther
03-06-2010, 11:02 PM
This George Brody has(d) several siblings: Benjamin, Leo, Gabriel, Paul, Euniss, Ruth, Julia, Camilla and Nancy

According to the obit, he outlived all his brothers and sisters. What an amazing man!

Here is his obit:

George BrodyGeorge Brody, 90, devoted husband, father and grandfather, died at The Essa Flory Hospice Center in Lancaster on Tuesday, January 6, 2009, after a long illness.
Born on March 26, 1918, in Wilkes-Barre, he was the second of 10 children of the late Thomas and Helen (Elias) Brody. He outlived all his brothers and sisters, Benjamin, Leo, Gabriel, Paul, Euniss, Ruth, Julia, Camilla and Nancy.
George was married to Martha (Allan) Brody, who survives him. High school sweethearts, they celebrated their 66th wedding anniversary on Dec. 11, 2008. They lived on Conestoga Boulevard in Lancaster.
George’s youth was filled with hardship and adventure. During the Great Depression, he left home, riding the rails around the United States before joining the Civilian Conservation Corps. He also was an amateur boxer and, briefly, a minor league baseball player. His sons and grandchildren inherited his passion for sports (especially the New York Yankees), and he loved to watch their games and share his knowledge with them.
During World War II, he served in the Second Infantry Division and then in the Army Air Force at Hondo, Texas.
After the war, he resumed his education, returning home to Wilkes-Barre to finish high school. Thanks to the G.I. Bill, he went on to Wilkes University, where he received a bachelor’s degree, and Temple University, where he received a master’s. He also attended the University of Delaware.
An educator, George spent his career at Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology. He taught English and journalism and helped coach football. He made a strong impression on generations of students, many of whom stayed in touch with him long after they graduated. When he retired, he was the director of the Office of Admissions and Counseling. In 1997, the school awarded him an honorary doctorate.
In retirement, George was a substitute teacher in the Manheim Township and Lancaster City school districts. He also volunteered as an instructor in a class on current affairs at Conestoga View and as a tour guide at Historic Rock Ford Plantation and North Museum.
George liked to help others, despite his own serious ailments. (He suffered his first heart attack at age 38; doctors gave him months to live.) For this quality, he was nominated to be one of President George H.W. Bush’s “Thousand Points of Light.”
George belonged to Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Lancaster. He was a Mason in Andrew H. Hershey Lodge, 43.
Every morning, George would gather with fellow veterans for coffee and conversation at a McDonald’s. In the afternoon, he and his wife would go for drives around the Lancaster County countryside. Once a month, they and their friends would have a poker night.
George’s intelligence had a restlessness to it. He enjoyed searching for facts in history and baseball. That led to wide reading. Growing up, his grandsons spent many happy hours leafing through his library.
George had a love of language and passed that on to his sons and grandchildren. He wrote an autobiography and two novels. His son had one of the novels, a love story, published last Christmas. “This is the nicest gift anybody could get before dying,” George said upon unwrapping it. Always a tough guy, he was touched.
He was tender, too. That was plain to see whenever he was with his grandchildren and great-grandchildren. They will miss his cheerful greeting – “Hey, buddy!” – and his elaborate handshakes. His colorful stories will live on through them.
George and Martha’s elder son, Stephen J. Brody, died in 2000. He and his wife, Jo Anne, had four sons, Stephen G., husband of Julie A. and father of Lilian E. Brody, of Lancaster; Joseph R., husband of Rhonda L. and father of Alaina R. Brody, of Lititz; Michael A., husband of Marcie A. and father of Benjamin S. and Anthony W. Brody, of Lancaster; and C. John Brody, of Lancaster.
In addition to his wife, George is survived by a son, Bruce A. Brody, of Springfield, Va., and Bruce’s children, Donald G. Brody, of Las Vegas, Nev.; Jennifer A., wife of Patrick Gould, of Honolulu, Hawaii; Mary G. Brody, John E. Brody and Joseph P. Brody, all at home.
Jo Anne remarried in 2003 and is the wife of Ronald S. Plutnicki, whom George and Martha warmly welcomed into the family, along with Ronald’s children and grandchildren, Ryan C., husband of Molly L. Plutnicki, of Phoenix, Ariz.; Lisa M., wife of Peter G. and mother of Peter W., Kali M. and Corinne E. Coleman, of Naples, Fla.; and Eric M. Plutnicki, of Chicago.
The viewing will be on Monday, from 9 to 11 a.m., with the funeral service to follow, at Charles F. Snyder Funeral Home & Chapel, 3110 Lititz Pike, Lititz, PA 17543.
In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to the George Brody Scholarship Fund at the Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology Alumni Association, 750 E. King St., Lancaster, PA 17602, or to Hospice of Lancaster County, 685 Good Drive, P.O. Box 4125, Lancaster, PA 17604. To send an online condolence or for more information, please visit www.snyderfuneralhome.com .

Julessleuther
03-06-2010, 11:47 PM
This George Brody did not appear to have a middle name. As of the 1930 census he was living in Wilkes-Barre, PA with his parents. One thing I found interesting is that he had a brother, Zachary, who is not listed in the above obit, but is listed on the census. In the 1930 census Gabriel is not listed, nor is Euniss, so they must not have been born yet...still checking. (Benjamin was the oldest--He died in 2001 and his wife, Rose, died in Mar 2009)

This George Brody's father, Thomas, was born in 1894 in the Syrian Arab Republic. (His race is listed as white, so he must not have been arab, however.) George's mother, Helen was born about 1896.

Edit: Gabriel was born in 1924, so do not know why he is missing--the only one showing that age on the census is Paul--was Gabriel a twin? I have not found a birth record for Zachary, but I have not found it to be the middle name of any of the other kids either (thinking that maybe they called him by his middle name) Hmmm--Gabriel and Zachary must be the same person, because the obit says his parents had 10 children, and I cannot find anything on Zachary.

OzzieMum
03-07-2010, 12:18 AM
This George Brody did not appear to have a middle name. As of the 1930 census he was living in Wilkes-Barre, PA with his parents. One thing I found interesting is that he had a brother, Zachary, who is not listed in the above obit, but is listed on the census. In the 1930 census Gabriel is not listed, nor is Euniss, so they must not have been born yet...still checking. (Benjamin was the oldest--He died in 2001 and his wife, Rose, died in Mar 2009)

This George Brody's father, Thomas, was born in 1894 in the Syrian Arab Republic. (His race is listed as white, so he must not have been arab, however.) George's mother, Helen was born about 1896.

Edit: Gabriel was born in 1924, so do not know why he is missing--the only one showing that age on the census is Paul--was Gabriel a twin? I have not found a birth record for Zachary, but I have not found it to be the middle name of any of the other kids either (thinking that maybe they called him by his middle name) Hmmm--Gabriel and Zachary must be the same person, because the obit says his parents had 10 children, and I cannot find anything on Zachary.

Hi Julessleuther,

The other thing I found is, on the 1930 census there is another family of Brody's living in the same street. Parents are Samuel and Reba and they also have a son named George who is listed as 7yr old, which would make his birth year 1922 or 1923. IIRC GB claimed to be born in 1922.

Both sets of parents were born in Syria and I am wondering if Thomas and Samuel might be cousins. I'm pretty sure that they are not brothers as Thomas arrived in the US in 1998 and Samuel arrived in 1908.

The other thing of interest is that our GB claimed to have wealthy relatives living in the east and the GB in your link was an english and journalism teacher at what appears to be a pretty big college, so he was probably reasonably well off.

The more I look at the pic's of the 2 GB's together, the more I think they might be related to each other.

I definitely think this is worth looking in to further.

Fantastic find Julessleuther.

Cubby
03-07-2010, 01:15 AM
Hey guys, lets keep in mind our GB has a birth year of either 1905 or 1906 based on the earlier articles raf found. I'm confused on the above because this GB born in 1918 would be far too young to be our GB, and his father born in 1894 too young to be our GB's father. Unless the elder (born 1894) had a brother or nephew born 1905 or 1906.

I really don't see much resemblence. GB has a more triangle shaped nose, longer face and his ears stick out, while the GB in the above link has a square face, ears are closer to his head and he has a round 'santa claus' nose for lack of a better description.

I couldn't figure out how to copy the picture from Jules link. Can someone copy the picture from the file so we can do a side by side?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1244/1140825134_dffc084be8.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1140/1139981223_05422a4e64.jpg

Cubby
03-07-2010, 01:39 AM
Did anyone get any further with the union involvement and the possibility that GB was a barber? I thought that was a really good theory.



Hi Cubby!

Yes, I found that site to be pretty darn amazing!
I wanted to add yet another site which is very detailed.


Online Archive of California

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/ (http://www.oac.cdlib.org/)

Typing in the AFL Oakland, I came up with this one: NOTE* Heaps and Heaps of info! Some is online, some one has to go to the archives -

box-_folder 14/10Journeymen Barbers, Hairdressers & Cosmetologists, #134

at this link:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf1f59n4vt;query=AFL (http://www.oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf1f59n4vt;query=AFL) Barber's Union oakland;style=oac4;view=dsc#c01-1.7.6.21

~

Also, http://www.library.sfsu.edu/about/depts/larc.php (http://www.library.sfsu.edu/about/depts/larc.php)

The Library of San Francisco Archives



I left my sister two messages and she never got back to me about any union direction........

and

It looks like all those records are in a box in a library in Oakland, and I am no where near Oakland. Maybe someone close by the Oakland library can check into this.

Annasmom
03-07-2010, 02:20 AM
I am not sure there is a connection with the Lancaster George Brody, who BTW seems to have been a great man...the thing which does occur to me is that the Lancaster GB was second-generation Syrian 90 years old and obviously completely Americanized (except that he belonged to an Orthodox church, as do many people of Syrian extraction); Brody is not a Syrian name, but Baroody may be. You know how many ethnic names were changed when people emigrated. It's probably nothing, but may be something worth a little thought.

Cubby
03-07-2010, 02:21 AM
Searching "George" "B" both names exact, and a birth of birth 1905 +/-1 year there are 5 records of a George B where it appears the last name is illegible from ship/immigration records.

Can someone look at these 5 records and see if anything stands out regarding our GB?

tia

anne11
03-08-2010, 11:47 AM
Hi sorry to back track a bit, about British police officers being nicknamed "bobbies", its because of Sir Robert Peel http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/SirRobertPeel.htm

Pink Panther
03-22-2010, 01:41 PM
Searching "George" "B" both names exact, and a birth of birth 1905 +/-1 year there are 5 records of a George B where it appears the last name is illegible from ship/immigration records.

Can someone look at these 5 records and see if anything stands out regarding our GB?

tia
Cubby - How are you spelling the last name? George Brody or Brodey or Brodie??? Also, what year/decade are we assuming he arrived?

Cubby
03-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Pink'

The parameters I searched were just as I had posted. I know we are so used to abbreviating names here it might be confusing.

First name: George
Last name: just the letter B
birth year: 1905 +/- 1 year.

That was it... and IIRC I checked exact for all three entries.

There were 5 records which the last name was illegible, or shows as being illegible at Ancestry.com Not having a membership, I didn't know if looking at documents would have given any additional information to see if we can make out who these George B's are.... and if they might ring a bell with our GB.

hth and thank you.

Pink Panther
03-22-2010, 07:10 PM
Pink'

The parameters I searched were just as I had posted. I know we are so used to abbreviating names here it might be confusing.

First name: George
Last name: just the letter B
birth year: 1905 +/- 1 year.

That was it... and IIRC I checked exact for all three entries.

There were 5 records which the last name was illegible, or shows as being illegible at Ancestry.com Not having a membership, I didn't know if looking at documents would have given any additional information to see if we can make out who these George B's are.... and if they might ring a bell with our GB.

hth and thank you.
Cubby,

I take back everything I wrote two minutes ago. I have found your 5 and will go into the documents/manifests to see if anything looks relevant.

: )

Ok. Two of them won't open for me. I get an "error processing request" message. This happens sometimes when they're updating files so, I'll try again later. These two entries look identical in the preview however and I wouldn't be surprised if they are a "double". The three that do open, are all obscured and seem to show up because the last name is not clear. All three of them are listed as crew for three different vessels. Two of them have "black" listed under ethnicity and one has "panamanian". Unfortunately, none of these listings seem of particular relevance to our search.

Cubby
03-22-2010, 07:15 PM
Thanks. No need to take it back, lol. I can easily see how it would have been confusing since we use initials all the time.... I could have easily read it the same way had it been posted by someone else.

:blowkiss:

Pink Panther
03-31-2010, 10:48 PM
...ehem...Doing some other research, I recently stumbled upon some information about Edgar Cayce...And, uh...GB did look a bit like him and certainly seemed to have "latched onto" some of Cayce's ideas...Has this ever come up in discussions regarding GB???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce

ETA - Look for older pics of Cayce for physical similarities...

Cubby
03-31-2010, 11:28 PM
It did somewhere... do a search of this forum, choose by post ( not thread or you won't find the individual posts) with the worde cayce and you will find it. Let me know if you need help finding it...

TIA!

SideKick
04-01-2010, 11:04 AM
...ehem...Doing some other research, I recently stumbled upon some information about Edgar Cayce...And, uh...GB did look a bit like him and certainly seemed to have "latched onto" some of Cayce's ideas...Has this ever come up in discussions regarding GB???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce

ETA - Look for older pics of Cayce for physical similarities...

~

Yes, I know I've read up on Cayce vs Brody, there definitely similarities. Theology thoughts, reincarnation, karma etc. Brody was somewhat well read it seems to me about these things. Wonder if he read alot when he was younger or actually belonged to a society similar to a Cayce following?

And yes, appearance wise, very similar!