Henry "Cab" Tice

[daisy7]

Mods. - hope this thread is ok.

Press release

Pensacola, Fla–The Escambia County Sheriff’s Office has arrested Henry Cabell Tice, 61, on warrant. Tice faces one count of Grand Theft over $10,000 related to financial dealings with Byrd Billings’ business Worldco Financial Services.

(snipped)

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7105

[daisy7]

Please read this post from Adnoid.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Important - people who are NOT involved but are getting dragged in

[daisy7]

Another arrest made in relation to Billings case

Henry Cabell Tice, 61, has been arrested on one count of grand theft in connection with Worldco Financial Services, a business to which Byrd Billings had ties. Billings and his wife, Melanie, were shot to death in their Beulah home on July 9.

Tice was arrested on charges related to a criminal investigation that began in May 2008, the Escambia County Sheriff's Office said Thursday evening.

Tice was being questioned at the Sheriff's Office in Pensacola. Bond will be set at $5,000.

(snipped)

http://pnj.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/90806024

[cleo612]

In addition, Tice apparently confirmed his involvement with the Mexican mafia in an interview with the sheriff's office.

http://pnj.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/90806024

[daisy7]

Tice also said he had a very close relationship with Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Sr., one of the seven men charged with murder in the Billingses' deaths.

Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan on Thursday said Tice and Gonzalez Sr. "had a father-son relationship, and they spoke on a daily basis."

http://pnj.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/90806024

[Lindadanette]

Sr.? I wonder if that's a typo - I heard that JR was seen riding around with Tice all over car world. . .

[daisy7]

Sr.? I wonder if that's a typo - I heard that JR was seen riding around with Tice all over car world. . .

I wondered that myself. How old is Tice?

[lexus116]

I believe that was a typo. It had to of been Jr.

Linda, everything you said weeks ago regarding the Mexican mafia seems to finally be coming out.

Daisy, Tice is 61

[daisy7]

Local news just said Tice is 61 and Sr. is 58(?). He had to have had this
"father-son" relationship with Jr.

[lexus116]

Daisy, you can see a photo of him here - http://www.pnj.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/90806024

[daisy7]

Daisy, you can see a photo of him here - http://www.pnj.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/90806024

Thanks, Lexus!

He sure doesn't look like he's 61!:)

[lexus116]

Thanks, Lexus!

He sure doesn't look like he's 61!:)


I was thinking the same thing!

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_3175.shtml

Yep it was Jr and Linda you were right as Always!!!!

[daisy7]

Here's where things get exceedingly murky. One person police interviewed the night of the murders was a man named Henry Tice, who also works in the used-car trade. He and Billings have had joint interests in a number of ventures. For instance, state records filed in 2007 show that Billings's financing company provided funding to Hispanic-American Auto Sales, a Tice-run business. Tice is also "good friends" with Gonzalez, who has worked for him in the past, according to a former Tice associate who requested anonymity out of fear. Both men were martial-arts fans and used to work out together, the associate says.

Tice's relationship with .

(snipped)

http://www.newsweek.com/id/210663/page/1

[passionflower]

He looks like an old man...........must of lead a rough life and now the Mexican mob connections are coming out! Glad we can finally work on this now!

[daisy7]

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_3175.shtml

Yep it was Jr and Linda you were right as Always!!!!

From the link:

ESCAMBIA COUNTY - He admits to having a relationship with the Mexican mafia, owing them tens of thousands of dollars.

Now, the man who also had a falling-out with business partner Byrd Billings is under arrest.

As Channel Three News was the first to report Thursday night, Henry "Cab" Tice is charged with grand theft related to financial dealings with Billings.

The 61-year-old was arrested Thursday night after being questioned at the sheriff's office.

He remains a person of interest in the murders of Byrd and Melanie Billings, a couple gunned down in their Beulah home last month.

[daisy7]

Anyone find his mug shot from tonight? I looked and couldn't find it...

[NSC]

:razz::cursing::cursing::cursing::rolleyes::rolley es::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolley es::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Alright, I am not trying to start or stir trouble. But some of us have known this for weeks now...

It is so hard to sleuth this case and stay within TOS -- That is why I have moved off the board until LE starts naming more POI or making more arrests. IMO, there is going to be many more people involved that are currently not allowed to be discussed at this time. I totally respect WS and what it stands for so I understand these rules and precautions. However, I just want that to be known since I know many people are thinking this. If I were a MOD or the owner of WS, I would do that same exact thing because the people that are involved in this care are S C A R Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I certainly wouldn't want to be contacted by them. In any case, this murder is much higher and is going to continue to go much higher than Cab Tice. I am flabergasted at the fraud some of us have uncovered that goes on in this town. Mainly, revolving around the car business and things that can be done inside of owning such. It is most likely ruffling lots of high rollers feathers that people like us are into their business because more than just the Billings murders are now being pryed into. This is going to go well beyond their murders at this rate and the only thing I can say it, I am glad I don't live in this FL town!!!

[NSC]

Sr.? I wonder if that's a typo - I heard that JR was seen riding around with Tice all over car world. . .

Yes, he was!!! Didn't we discuss this two weeks ago???? :crazy:

[who knew?]

Yes, he was!!! Didn't we discuss this two weeks ago???? :crazy:

Yep - I remember - but we weren't allowed to talk then. No matter - he is old news - have bigger "fish" to fry........

And I, too, understand WS rules - and understand the position they must take to protect themselves and innocent people. GO WS!

[lexus116]

:razz::cursing::cursing::cursing::rolleyes::rolley es::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolley es::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Alright, I am not trying to start or stir trouble. But some of us have known this for weeks now...

It is so hard to sleuth this case and stay within TOS -- That is why I have moved off the board until LE starts naming more POI or making more arrests. IMO, there is going to be many more people involved that are currently not allowed to be discussed at this time. I totally respect WS and what it stands for so I understand these rules and precautions. However, I just want that to be known since I know many people are thinking this. If I were a MOD or the owner of WS, I would do that same exact thing because the people that are involved in this care are S C A R Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I certainly wouldn't want to be contacted by them. In any case, this murder is much higher and is going to continue to go much higher than Cab Tice. I am flabergasted at the fraud some of us have uncovered that goes on in this town. Mainly, revolving around the car business and things that can be done inside of owning such. It is most likely ruffling lots of high rollers feathers that people like us are into their business because more than just the Billings murders are now being pryed into. This is going to go well beyond their murders at this rate and the only thing I can say it, I am glad I don't live in this FL town!!!




We live in a VERY corrupt little town, where a lot of dirty deeds are swept under the rug due to our 'good ole' boy' politicians.

What struck me as laughable is Tice claims to be broke, yet he just returned from a trip to Colombia. If he only has a couple of hundred dollars in the bank (as he claims), how is he able to logically explain being able to travel to South America?

I agree, this case definitely goes way beyond some financial deal gone bad with the Billings! I highly doubt even 50% of the truth regarding this case will come out though.

[mikeysmommom]

We live in a VERY corrupt little town, where a lot of dirty deeds are swept under the rug due to our 'good ole' boy' politicians.

What struck me as laughable is Tice claims to be broke, yet he just returned from a trip to Colombia. If he only has a couple of hundred dollars in the bank (as he claims), how is he able to logically explain being able to travel to South America?

I agree, this case definitely goes way beyond some financial deal gone bad with the Billings! I highly doubt even 50% of the truth regarding this case will come out though.

Hopefully this time with so many eyes on your town and this story and Feds involved maybe they will lift up that rug and sweep out the garbage.

[NSC]

We live in a VERY corrupt little town, where a lot of dirty deeds are swept under the rug due to our 'good ole' boy' politicians.

What struck me as laughable is Tice claims to be broke, yet he just returned from a trip to Colombia. If he only has a couple of hundred dollars in the bank (as he claims), how is he able to logically explain being able to travel to South America?

I agree, this case definitely goes way beyond some financial deal gone bad with the Billings! I highly doubt even 50% of the truth regarding this case will come out though.

Don't worry!! Some of us are uncovering MASS amounts of garbage! And to be honest, it is scary even having to look at some of these names. I am in contact with national media and have been for quite some type. Be prepared for the big fish to fry and soon :clap::clap: Hopefully, this is going to be the start of a much needed clean up of politicians, high rollers, and the prior untouchables of your community. One thing people should always keep in mind, NOTHING goes in one direction forever. The tides are about to change!!!

[Lindadanette]

Don't worry!! Some of us are uncovering MASS amounts of garbage! And to be honest, it is scary even having to look at some of these names. I am in contact with national media and have been for quite some type. Be prepared for the big fish to fry and soon :clap::clap: Hopefully, this is going to be the start of a much needed clean up of politicians, high rollers, and the prior untouchables of your community. One thing people should always keep in mind, NOTHING goes in one direction forever. The tides are about to change!!!


"Garbage" - perfect. . . Garbage in, garbage out - follow the money trail.

[passionflower]

ITA, this is just 1 fish and not the shark, much more to come from this double
murder........organized crime........IMO

[lexus116]

Mikeysmommom & NSC, I hope you're both right. It's time the corrupt officials, and those influencing them are brought to justice.

[NSC]

"Garbage" - perfect. . . Garbage in, garbage out - follow the money trail.

Oh Linda you are KILLING me - no pun intended!!!!! DDP!!!!!!!!!!! :behindbar:crazy:

[who knew?]

Mikeysmommom & NSC, I hope you're both right. It's time the corrupt officials, and those influencing them are brought to justice.

They are correct - and the doodoo is about to hit the fan.

[cleo612]

Man accused of writing bad checks to Florida slaying victim



From Susan Candiotti

(CNN) -- Police in Escambia County, Florida, questioned a man in connection with the July slayings of a couple known for adopting special-needs children, a spokeswoman said Thursday night.
Henry "Cab" Tice, a used car dealer, has been arrested on suspicion of grand theft, police say.

Henry "Cab" Tice, a used car dealer, was arrested on suspicion of grand theft, said Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan. Police said they believe Tice wrote a series of bad checks to one of the victims, Byrd Billings, Morgan said.



More at link:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/06/billings.slain.couple/index.html

[swika]

Oh Linda you are KILLING me - no pun intended!!!!! DDP!!!!!!!!!!! :behindbar:crazy:

You two are too quick!

[redfish]

I have been watching this with total facination from the beginning.... I am so enjoying this. I lived most of my life in this area and have friends and family there. I never thought I would see the day.....People, you do not know your neighbors! You do not know your friends. What is going on around you will astound you. If you think the economy is bad right now, hold on to your pennies.... cause if this goes all the way everything could crumble there. ESCO is doing a great job, this Sheriff is fearless... these guys are going against great odds.:clap::clap::clap:

[Gene]

I am not surprised at this "Tice has been in Colombia, South America, for several days and returned Thursday, Morgan said."

If you check his facebook page, there are three "friends", one obviously a relative and 2 very pretty women who appear to be from Columbia, at least many of their friends are from Columbia. So, maybe he went to say "Adios, Amiga"?

[SuziQ]

There certainly is something there to cause several people to leave the area and one to leave the country. And I can't wait to find out who they are.

NSC, I wish I was standing behind you looking over your shoulder.

[daisy7]

The longest day..it’s a humdinger

August 6, 2009 will go down as one of the longest days in my life as a journalist. We were dealing with two rumors all day. One was the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office was once again pushing to get an arrest warrant for Henry Cab Tice, the used car dealer who I had reported over a week ago as a person of interest in the murders of Bud and Melanie Billings and whether they were contract hits s.

(snipped)

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7111

[UnderDog]

I have been watching this with total facination from the beginning.... I am so enjoying this. I lived most of my life in this area and have friends and family there. I never thought I would see the day.....People, you do not know your neighbors! You do not know your friends. What is going on around you will astound you. If you think the economy is bad right now, hold on to your pennies.... cause if this goes all the way everything could crumble there. ESCO is doing a great job, this Sheriff is fearless... these guys are going against great odds.:clap::clap::clap:

It opens opportunity for HONEST business people with INTEGRITY. Criminals have been pushing the "too big to arrest" myth for years. JMO.

[passionflower]

Now I understand why Tice's wife wanted us to stop sleuthing on him/her life.
Now everything is being exposed ..............JMO

[passionflower]

There certainly is something there to cause several people to leave the area and one to leave the country. And I can't wait to find out who they are.

NSC, I wish I was standing behind you looking over your shoulder.

SuzyQ, they are scattering like rats in a sewer, IMO, watch the news media........soon everything will come out....the media sourses are close to exposing all....did you read newsweek on line?

[passionflower]

http://ricksblog.biz/

ricks breaking allot more news, please read

[Gene]

Henry Tices arrest warrent.

http://ricksblog.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/HENRY_TICE.pdf

He has a history of having problems with checks


http://www.bradleyarant.com/publications_opinions.php?ID=3624

[SuziQ]

SuzyQ, they are scattering like rats in a sewer, IMO, watch the news media........soon everything will come out....the media sourses are close to exposing all....did you read newsweek on line?

I'm not sure I did. Do you have a link? Thanks!

[Dallasdon]

Linda, everything you said weeks ago regarding the Mexican mafia seems to finally be coming out.



Wonder if this was why Michael Billings "didn't feel safe there"?

[daisy7]

I'm not sure I did. Do you have a link? Thanks!


http://www.newsweek.com/id/210663/page/1

[Gene]

According to the arrest report Byrd Billing filed a complaint about the bad checks on 22 May. Tice was not arrested until nearly 2.5 months later. Why the delay?

Question: If Tice had been immediately arrested could things have been different?

[cleo612]

According to the arrest report Byrd Billing filed a complaint about the bad checks on 22 May. Tice was not arrested until nearly 2.5 months later. Why the delay?

Question: If Tice had been immediately arrested could things have been different?

Those checks were written during April and May of 2008. I believe that Billings went to the Sheriff's Office in May 2008.

[NSC]

Make sure to watch Dateline tonight and if not next week!

[Gene]

Those checks were written during April and May of 2008. I believe that Billings went to the Sheriff's Office in May 2008.

You are RIGHT!!! Ok, why did the Police wait over 1 YEAR to arrest Tice?

[Miss Muffet]

If you live in the area, be careful while you do your digging. When my sister investigated good-old-boy corruption, she ended up dead---never solved.

[mikeysmommom]

If you live in the area, be careful while you do your digging. When my sister investigated good-old-boy corruption, she ended up dead---never solved.

OMG I am so sorry to hear that happened to your sister.It is a Nightmare when a murder goes unsolved.I hope one day your sister's killer faces Justice.

[JBean]

If you find yourselves discussing other posters instead of the topic, we got a problem.

Thanks,

Hall Monitor 57 :)

[daisy7]

Cab Tice interview

http://www.nbc15online.com/news/local/story/Killer-Connection-to-Billings-Couple/hjYHIQND60Cpxp2T2GgIpg.cspx

[NSC]

As I said earlier:

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com

It will be on monday....

[Gene]

Not sure how to interpret this article. But if I am reading it correctly, Tice and Wiggins maybe charged with capital murder:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/1175969.html

What do you think?

[SuziQ]

Not sure how to interpret this article. But if I am reading it correctly, Tice and Wiggins maybe charged with capital murder:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/1175969.html

What do you think?

No, it's the seven of the eight that went to the house.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/1175969.html

(snip)
Eddins has said he will ask the grand jury to indict the group for capital murder, a move that could allow him to seek the death penalty. Seven men, including a 16-year-old who prosecutors have decided to charge as an adult, had faced second-degree murder charges. Eddins is now asking the grand jury to upgrade the charges.
Under Florida law, only a grand jury can indict a defendant for capital murder. If convicted, the penalty is either death or life in prison.

[Gene]

No, it's the seven of the eight that went to the house.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/1175969.html

(snip)
Eddins has said he will ask the grand jury to indict the group for capital murder, a move that could allow him to seek the death penalty. Seven men, including a 16-year-old who prosecutors have decided to charge as an adult, had faced second-degree murder charges. Eddins is now asking the grand jury to upgrade the charges.
Under Florida law, only a grand jury can indict a defendant for capital murder. If convicted, the penalty is either death or life in prison.


-- Prosecutors said Friday they want to upgrade charges to capital murder for two more of the eight suspects in the deaths of a Panhandle couple known for adopting many children with special needs, and investigators questioned another man about the slayings and said there could be more arrests.

You maybe right, but they mention TWO, not seven. I dunno, maybe it is just a poorly written article and I am reading too much into it.

[JBean]

Not sure how to interpret this article. But if I am reading it correctly, Tice and Wiggins maybe charged with capital murder:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/1175969.html

What do you think?

No that's not what it says but it is written poorly and I see why you got that impression.

>PENSACOLA, Fla. -- Prosecutors said Friday they want to upgrade charges to capital murder for two more of the eight suspects in the deaths of a Panhandle couple known for adopting many children with special needs, and investigators questioned another man about the slayings and said there could be more arrests.<<

[papp6977]

Not sure how to post the link, but new article at.. pnj.com on Tice

[JBean]

omg gene our 2 posts made me laugh.

[RiverPirate]

Not sure how to post the link, but new article at.. pnj.com on Tice

Just copy and paste the link from your browser.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090808/NEWS01/908080329&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Rumor on top of innuendo
Tice tells 'Dateline' he wasn't involved

Kris Wernowsky • kwernowsky@pnj.com • August 8, 2009



The Escambia County Sheriff's Office on Friday continued to refer to a business associate of Byrd and Melanie Billings as a "person of interest" in their murders. But after hours of questioning on three occasions, he has not been charged in the case.
Advertisement



.

[Gene]

There is alot of new stuff about Tice in this article, but it creates alot of new questions...

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090808/NEWS01/908080329

For example:
* Tice has been living AND working at Bobby English Auto Sales. Bobby English did not know that Tice was under investigation???
* Tice is broke. But where did he get the money to travel to Columbia?
* Now Robert Beasley is the Billings Attorney? What happed to Crystal Spencer???
* Beasley is saying "He thought the world of Melanie. She was a saintly person. He really had a true affection for her," attorney Robert Beasley said. "It would be difficult to believe that Cab would be involved with her getting hurt." Why would an attorney of the Billings say that??????????
* Tice's ex is coming to his defence. Why would SHE do that?

It would be good to get a real investigative journalist on this story!!

[RiverPirate]

There is alot of new stuff about Tice in this article, but it creates alot of new questions...

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090808/NEWS01/908080329

For example:
* Tice has been living AND working at Bobby English Auto Sales. Bobby English did not know that Tice was under investigation???
* Tice is broke. But where did he get the money to travel to Columbia?
* Now Robert Beasley is the Billings Attorney? What happed to Crystal Spencer???
* Beasley is saying "He thought the world of Melanie. She was a saintly person. He really had a true affection for her," attorney Robert Beasley said. "It would be difficult to believe that Cab would be involved with her getting hurt." Why would an attorney of the Billings say that??????????
* Tice's ex is coming to his defence. Why would SHE do that?

It would be good to get a real investigative journalist on this story!!

I'll take a couple stabs.

Tice could have been lying about being broke.:eek: Imagine that. Credit Cards. Could actually be broke but got money from friends or partners in crime.

Beasley is referred to as an attorney for the Billingses. They have multiple attorneys.

[RiverPirate]

You are RIGHT!!! Ok, why did the Police wait over 1 YEAR to arrest Tice?

This is what I went through on some bad checks written to me. They don't actually go after the bad check writers. They send them certified mail and they only pick them up if they come in contact with them. Traffic stop or something. Now, the ones I was after weren't in the thousands of dollars, so that may be different.

[Lossmitpro]

Debbie Tice, Cab Tice's ex-wife, contacted NBC15 news. She said Tice never had any connection to Triple B Autos. "I have struggled for over 3 years to separate myself and my business from any connection to my ex-husband", Tice said. She says her previous business, Bueno Bonito Barato Autos, was at an entirely different location.
http://www.nbc15online.com/news/local/story/Killer-Connection-to-Billings-Couple/hjYHIQND60Cpxp2T2GgIpg.cspx

BBB papers:
http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/30026343.pdf



LOCAL FAMILY OWNED AND OPERATED

Location: Triple B Autos
8569 Hwy 59 S
Foley, AL 36535-
Phone #: 251-970-2xxx
Or: 2519702xxx
Fax: 251-970-5xxx
Email: Email us at triplebautos@yahoo.com
Store Hours: 10 A.M. TO 6:30 P.M. MONDAY-FRIDAY 10 A.M. TO 5 P.M. SATURDAY
"WHERE FAMILY AND INTEGRITY MEET"
http://triplebautos.com/about


Dealership Name: Bueno Bonito Brata Autos

Phone Number : 251-970-2xxx Cab Tice

Address : 8437 State Highway 59

Zip Code : 36535-3832

City : Foley

State : Alabama

http://www.carprice.com/used-cars/dealers/alabama/foley/bueno-bonito-brata-autos

http://i26.tinypic.com/23kau6h.gif



READ COMMENTS HERE FOR INTERESTING COMMENTARY, esp "markman222" and "Massie":

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6926

[Lossmitpro]

And things have been interesting in that family for some time, based on this court case from 1978:

http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CAL2%5C1978%5C19780825_0011.AL.htm/qx

[Lossmitpro]

One way of interpreting the information in this article:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-23/new-suspect-in-florida-killings/


is that Melanie and Ashely Billings were engaged in a 'facilitating' relationship with Debbie Tice - Honduras Woods, selling her an auto business, etc., at about the same time "Bud" was in a 'contentious' relationship with "Cab," Debbie's estranged husband, legally and financially, over the financing and "Cab's" bad checks to "Bud", etc.

That certainly seems a situation likely to generate a high degree of animosity in "Cab," (or anyone!) which makes his public protestations of what a great guy he thought "Bud' was seem a little incongruous.

[NSC]

Can't remember at the moment where I saw the article - But it did say Crystal Spencer - FORMER attorney for the Billings - shoot, wish I copied this down.. If memory serves the comment she was making was a little "off" -- gonna try and hunt this down.

She was more of a work comp type attorney if again, memory serves. Prob not the right canidate in the first place.

[passionflower]

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7128&cpage=1#comment-257367
Tice made $5K bail and is out!!!

[daisy7]

Cab Tice the latest person of interest in the Billings murder investigation...Is out on bond tonight.

As we first told you last night at ten, he was arrested on an unrelated charge of grand theft, for writing just over 17-thousand dollars worth of bad checks.

But Escambia Deputies aren't the only ones investigating Cab Tice.

(snipped)

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_3206.shtml

[pbee]

...which makes his public protestations of what a great guy he thought "Bud' was seem a little incongruous.
I read the PNJ article that way the first time, too. But what it's really saying is that Tice said, "The world lost somebody wonderful in Melanie." [and] "Bud didn't deserve to be killed in his household."

[NSC]

"Bud didn't deserve to be killed in his household."

I find this statement interesting - he didn't deserve to be killed in his HOUSEHOLD. Just seems odd to me.

[JBean]

I find this statement interesting - he didn't deserve to be killed in his HOUSEHOLD. Just seems odd to me.It is the perfect non-statement. It is actually a very telling remark imo, especially juxtaposed with his comments regarding Melanie.

[swika]

It is the perfect non-statement. It is actually a very telling remark imo, especially juxtaposed with his comments regarding Melanie.

Absolutely agree. Perhaps we could say ... Honesty to a fault.

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.nbc15online.com/news/local/story/Killer-Connection-to-Billings-Couple/hjYHIQND60Cpxp2T2GgIpg.cspx

BBB papers:
http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/30026343.pdf




http://triplebautos.com/about



http://www.carprice.com/used-cars/dealers/alabama/foley/bueno-bonito-brata-autos

http://i26.tinypic.com/23kau6h.gif



READ COMMENTS HERE FOR INTERESTING COMMENTARY, esp "markman222" and "Massie":

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6926


IMO Markman222 is probably more on target about this crowd.Gee funny but her and her son are listed in the ad for the auto place she knows nothing about HmmmmmmmInteresting info.

[passionflower]

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01366.htm

chocolate autos.......like a box of candy....never know what you will get
VIN number changed...........good read about missing cars

[mikeysmommom]

I'll take a couple stabs.

Tice could have been lying about being broke.:eek: Imagine that. Credit Cards. Could actually be broke but got money from friends or partners in crime.

Beasley is referred to as an attorney for the Billingses. They have multiple attorneys.

I bet a lot of his assets are in Colombia:rolleyes:.Why else would a young woman like that marry that very old looking con man :waitasec:I would like to see the house the newlyweds own:cool:.Wonder how many used car lots he started with the new wife :eek:

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01366.htm

chocolate autos.......like a box of candy....never know what you will get
VIN number changed...........good read about missing cars

I remember when reading FL news looking for info On Anthony case,reading about a man who bought truck off of a lot in FL that turned out to be stolen and man was out of like 20k.The lot refused to do anything about it and the guy still had to pay the loan for a confiscated stolen truck.Sure wished I remembered the car dealer!!!!The article said it was happening a lot in Fl. Anyone else ever see this story?

[Gene]

I remember when reading FL news looking for info On Anthony case,reading about a man who bought truck off of a lot in FL that turned out to be stolen and man was out of like 20k.The lot refused to do anything about it and the guy still had to pay the loan for a confiscated stolen truck.Sure wished I remembered the car dealer!!!!The article said it was happening a lot in Fl. Anyone else ever see this story?

Could this be it???

The FBI arrested 13 people in Miami, Tampa and Chicago Tuesday in "Operation Dual Identity," busting what's believed to be one of the largest car cloning rings in the agency's history. Arrests also were made in Mexico City and Guadalajara, Mexico

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story/FBI-busts-florida-car-cloning-ring/B37podOPWkWbNW9Tagv-1Q.cspx

[mikeysmommom]

Could this be it???

The FBI arrested 13 people in Miami, Tampa and Chicago Tuesday in "Operation Dual Identity," busting what's believed to be one of the largest car cloning rings in the agency's history. Arrests also were made in Mexico City and Guadalajara, Mexico

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story/FBI-busts-florida-car-cloning-ring/B37podOPWkWbNW9Tagv-1Q.cspx

Not the article I meant but it is very interesting and probably was apart of it.HMMMMMMMM Seems as if the timing making it harder to clone cars,seems in line with Tice having money troubles.Tice is also involved in sending cars to Mexico.Sure seems connected IMO.:waitasec:

[mikeysmommom]

Could this be it???

The FBI arrested 13 people in Miami, Tampa and Chicago Tuesday in "Operation Dual Identity," busting what's believed to be one of the largest car cloning rings in the agency's history. Arrests also were made in Mexico City and Guadalajara, Mexico

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story/FBI-busts-florida-car-cloning-ring/B37podOPWkWbNW9Tagv-1Q.cspx

I went looking for the article and it is connected to this one.TY

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/24/cloned.cars/index.html

[swika]

I went looking for the article and it is connected to this one.TY

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/24/cloned.cars/index.html

Who speaks for who?

[RiverPirate]

I bet a lot of his assets are in Colombia:rolleyes:.Why else would a young woman like that marry that very old looking con man :waitasec:I would like to see the house the newlyweds own:cool:.Wonder how many used car lots he started with the new wife :eek:

There was mention of a Mail Order Bride in the comments over at http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6926

It will be interesting to find out why Tice came back from Columbia. This guy's in a real bind.

Why did the Mexican Mafia let him out of S. America in the first place? First thing he did when he got back was moan to the Sheriff about owing them money. I'm thinking the don't like that.
Is he cooperating with the feds? If so; Will this keep him from being charged if they connect him to the murders?

[Pcola Hog]

Here's another interesting comment (#8) on http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6926

8. Massie says:
July 21, 2009 at 5:40 pm

Cabell Tice is honest and forthright in all of his business dealings. I have know him most of his life and he is a dedicated hard worker and a family man. It is unfortunate that this smear is going on. .

Haven't we heard this several times recently "It is a shame that their name (Tice) is being besmirched by unscrupulous people with hidden agendas" ?

[Pcola Hog]

IMO, Cab Tice made a deal with LE prior to leaving for S.America that went something like this. (IMO) Tice would lead them to his connection(s) in S. America, tell who helped & how he was able to re-title, ship cars and any knowledge of suspects in murder case of BB/MB. In other words, he had to sing like a Canary.

With today's airport security and being suspected of dealings in S.America, it's hard to believe LE did not redflag Cab Tice at all airports.

[NSC]

Another Tice Legal issues -- found at Ricks Blog:

This is not the first time Tice had problems with checks:

http://www.bradleyarant.com/publications_opinions.php?ID=3624

[NSC]

Alright, here goes:

It is IMO, I think it is the intention of who ordered the hit on the Billings, for Cab Tice to have been set up to take the fall. This all goes much higher. I do not know if he had anything to do with this "plan" in the first place. My instincts are doubting this. I also have reason to believe this is not the first time someone in this town has been set up, IMO. There was a federal prosecutor who was busted for traveling out of state to have relations with an under age child. I also think this was set-up. I have excellent evidence leading me to this, so please don't think I would give my opinion out of haste or fluff.

I also have reason to believe the LPG JR has acted as "hitman" on other occasions. Billings was not first time he has killed, IMO

[Chemaster]

I also have reason to believe the LPG JR has acted as "hitman" on other occasions. Billings was not first time he has killed, IMO
:star2:

[daisy7]

Alright, here goes:

It is IMO, I think it is the intention of who ordered the hit on the Billings, for Cab Tice to have been set up to take the fall. This all goes much higher. I do not know if he had anything to do with this "plan" in the first place. My instincts are doubting this. I also have reason to believe this is not the first time someone in this town has been set up, IMO. There was a federal prosecutor who was busted for traveling out of state to have relations with an under age child. I also think this was set-up. I have excellent evidence leading me to this, so please don't think I would give my opinion out of haste or fluff.

I also have reason to believe the LPG JR has acted as "hitman" on other occasions. Billings was not first time he has killed, IMO

BBM. That is a REALLY harsh accusation to make, IMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53584&

He was arrested at the Detroit airport and had a Dora the Explorer doll and a jar of vaseline in his duffel bag. His e-mails, chats and sick Myspace page were traced to his home computer (in Gulf Breeze). The investigation was conducted by Michigan LE and the FBI.

PLEASE explain why you think this sicko was set-up? Do you also think that he was murdered in jail or did he really commit suicide?;)

[passionflower]

HLN coverage in segments today..........Monday night Dateline!!!

[JBean]

We do not have a rumor thread in this forum.

[daisy7]

We of course can't post the info on WS - due to liability issues for WS and the posters - however, Daisy, if you will do the research, you will find the answers - just like NSC has. She is a very good sleuther - and she is absolutely correct - as you will find out shortly.

and, as always JMHO

Through my work, I had conversations with two members from our local Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force about this case when it happened (one from PPD and one from SRSO). As such, I have learned more about this case that was not included in media reports. This investigation was not initiated locally. Local LE got involved when contacted by the FBI when his IP address was traced to his home in Gulf Breeze to apprise them of the situation. They executed warrants to seize his home and office computers.

His home computer had the chats on them (did someone switch his home computer or go inside his house to have these chats and set-up his sick MS page?). He booked his flight on-line almost immediately after he got confirmation from the "Mom." Did someone plant the Dora the Explorer doll and vaseline on him or was that part just made up?

This case was initiated by Michigan LE who then got the FBI involved as he was crossing state lines. So, the FBI was involved in the supposed set-up?

I don't have links to support all of this, but at least I have provided how I received this first-hand information. I wish other posters would do the same.

It's a huge red flag for me if posters believe there may be a liability issue for WS or themselves to post evidence. If this accusation is indeed true and evidence is provided to support it, then there is no liability for anyone.

[Miss Muffet]

I have a stupid question. How are we sluthing if we can't discuss theories?

I understand not saying names, but a theory that this is connected to another case doesn't seem out of line to me.

[adnoid]

Posting information you have that can be backed up is fine.

Having information you cannot post until you can back it up, and later posting it when you can back it up, is fine.

Telling everyone you have information but you can't post it is obnoxious and pointless. Don't do it.

[who knew?]

Through my work, I had conversations with two members from our local Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force about this case when it happened (one from PPD and one from SRSO). As such, I have learned more about this case that was not included in media reports. This investigation was not initiated locally. Local LE got involved when contacted by the FBI when his IP address was traced to his home in Gulf Breeze to apprise them of the situation. They executed warrants to seize his home and office computers.

His home computer had the chats on them (did someone switch his home computer or go inside his house to have these chats and set-up his sick MS page?). He booked his flight on-line almost immediately after he got confirmation from the "Mom." Did someone plant the Dora the Explorer doll and vaseline on him or was that part just made up?

This case was initiated by Michigan LE who then got the FBI involved as he was crossing state lines. So, the FBI was involved in the supposed set-up?

I don't have links to support all of this, but at least I have provided how I received this first-hand information. I wish other posters would do the same.

It's a huge red flag for me if posters believe there may be a liability issue for WS or themselves to post evidence. If this accusation is indeed true and evidence is provided to support it, then there is no liability for anyone.

Actually Daisy, we have posted evidence - but it was deleted due to liability to WS, which I totally understand. If we were to post it, we would not be following rules and therefore we won't. We have not used names, as they have not been charged. If we could use the names - we could prove to you what we are saying.

The mob works in mysterious ways - they can make anything look "real" to people who just accept what they say (or do - like planting evidence on someone's computer or person) without digging deeper. Do we even know that the prosecutor knew he had this so-called personal space which was used to find willing kids to molest? And if this charge WAS true, then why wasn't there an all-out hunt for other kids abused by this man (as happens in every other incident like this one).

I feel like this man was set up because of the Sandshaker case - someone needs to defend him and help his family who have had to live through their own hell because he was an honest man doing his job.

Again, I just ask that you start digging deeper to find answers. If I can find it, anyone can. I'm not LE - I have no special equipment - no memberships to any type of websites other than myspace and facebook. Don't accept things being said by le in press releases at face value - if you look back, you see they keep contradicting themselves.

Don't mean to offend anyone, but feel very strong about DEFENDING this poor victim.

[adnoid]

Actually Daisy, we have posted evidence - but it was deleted due to liability to WS, which I totally understand...

There has been a misunderstanding. There is no liability to WS or Tricia, this is a point which has been well established. The exposure is to the posters who can be sued for posting defamatory remarks should the defamed person decide to pursue them.

In order to keep the discussions useful and productive, we point out to people who have recently joined the forum that just because you use a screen name and give us not a drop of personal information, it does not necessarily follow that you cannot be found by someone who wants to use all the legal means at their disposal to do so. This is not unique to this forum, of course.

An absolute defense to a charge of defamation is truth, of course. But there is another significant issue we have discussed before, and that is the civil wrong generally referred to "public disclosure of private facts" - where if you reveal some information that is true but was not public knowledge you CAN be sued - and lose money - for revealing it:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/Press/faqs.aspx?id=14038&

Throwing out speculation and adding an "IMO" does not make a defamatory statement magically a protected opinion. Showing where your information comes from and explaining how YOU put it together is useful. Throwing out a link to a blog and saying "Look at this" is not sleuthing in any sense of the word.

There are places on the net where people throw out every speculation and rumor in the book, and some that come from other places. Invariably some of these will turn out to be right. That doesn't mean it's a useful technique. In my view "rumor threads" are pointless and a waste of time and effort.

[who knew?]

I am sorry Adnoid if I am doing stuff wrong. I'm not sure exactly what I can and can't post since some things that I think are okay turn out not to be, and then I see things I think are wrong but they're okay! This is completely confusing to me - but then, maybe I'm just easily confused!!! Thanks! :)

[daisy7]

Actually Daisy, we have posted evidence - but it was deleted due to liability to WS, which I totally understand. If we were to post it, we would not be following rules and therefore we won't. We have not used names, as they have not been charged. If we could use the names - we could prove to you what we are saying.

The mob works in mysterious ways - they can make anything look "real" to people who just accept what they say (or do - like planting evidence on someone's computer or person) without digging deeper. Do we even know that the prosecutor knew he had this so-called personal space which was used to find willing kids to molest? And if this charge WAS true, then why wasn't there an all-out hunt for other kids abused by this man (as happens in every other incident like this one).

I feel like this man was set up because of the Sandshaker case - someone needs to defend him and help his family who have had to live through their own hell because he was an honest man doing his job.

Again, I just ask that you start digging deeper to find answers. If I can find it, anyone can. I'm not LE - I have no special equipment - no memberships to any type of websites other than myspace and facebook. Don't accept things being said by le in press releases at face value - if you look back, you see they keep contradicting themselves.

Don't mean to offend anyone, but feel very strong about DEFENDING this poor victim.

Respectfully, BBM. First, we don't know if LE did or did not look for other victims across the country. Though, it appears there were no local victims.

Gulf Breeze Police said they have not received any complaints about Atchison locally. Lt. Rick Hawthorne with the Gulf Breeze Police Department said they would handle the investigation if there were a complaint of criminal activity regarding Atchison within the city limits.

"Fortunately, none of his actions had any impact here in the community - that we know of," said Gulf Breeze Mayor Lane Gilchrist. "Our main concern is the impact for his family that lives here."

http://www.gulfbreezenews.com/news/2007/0927/front_page/004.html

Second, I'm still confused about how Operation Sandshaker keeps getting brought up -- it happened 5 years ago. Though, maybe our WSers are much better sleuthers than local and federal LE?

O/T: My Dad was a regular at the Sandshaker AFTER the whole Operation Sandshaker and when it got a new owner. No, he didn't do cocaine, though he liked his scotch and soda:)

A few years back an artist did a caricature picture of the bar with a lot of the regulars in it and my Dad is in it. He showed it to me when he got the pic. and then proudly hung it in his office downtown.

After my Dad died more than a year ago, I got the pic. and it's hanging in my living room (had to fight with my brother about it, but I won!).

Maybe I'll head over there later to have a Bushwacker in memory of my Dad:)

[who knew?]

[QUOTE=daisy7;4030775]Respectfully, BBM. First, we don't know if LE did or did not look for other victims across the country. Though, it appears there were no local victims.

So you are saying this man who was, by all accounts, a wonderful person, a family man, squeaky clean, and who stood for justice just one day decided to set himself up with a child to molest in another state - and just to show how kind he was, he brought a doll and a bottle of vaseline with him on the plane. (Items he could have purchased once he arrived in the locality.)

I stand by my position. He was an innocent man who was set up.

[daisy7]

So you are saying this man who was, by all accounts, a wonderful person, a family man, squeaky clean, and who stood for justice just one day decided to set himself up with a child to molest in another state - and just to show how kind he was, he brought a doll and a bottle of vaseline with him on the plane. (Items he could have purchased once he arrived in the locality.)

I stand by my position. He was an innocent man who was set up.

BBM. He definitely is not the first person like this -- just read here on WS and you'll find many "upstanding citizens" whom committed horrific crimes:)

[RiverPirate]

Second, I'm still confused about how Operation Sandshaker keeps getting brought up -- it happened 5 years ago. Though, maybe our WSers are much better sleuthers than local and federal LE?

Daisy.Go back to post 91.

Here's the way I see this. I've come to the conclusion that the posters that are sharing this info with us are pretty sharp. Something tells me that they wouldn't be letting this loose unless they were damn sure what they were posting is right. I also think WS realizes this, or the info would be gone.

If you think about it, with todays technology and the corruption in some law enforcement agencies. Pulling this off wouldn't be that difficult. Load the guys computer. Cram a doll and some vaseline in his bag when you pick him up and throw away the key.

I also hope that if this is true, the truth be told. Many years before all this, my family and friends lives centered around the same ballpark where this Prosecutor so freely devoted his time serving as President of the GB Sports Assoc. I can't imagine the shock those that knew him experienced. His family, his friends, his life....Gone.

[Miss Muffet]

Telling everyone you have information but you can't post it is obnoxious and pointless. Don't do it.
It's okay to say "Hey, I have a wild theory. Maybe someone who worked inside the house was supposed to turn off the video camera...." is okay because it's clearly just brainstorming a general theory. If we have actual information, we only post if we are able to post the proof. Thanks!

[daisy7]

Daisy.Go back to post 91.

Here's the way I see this. I've come to the conclusion that the posters that are sharing this info with us are pretty sharp. Something tells me that they wouldn't be letting this loose unless they were damn sure what they were posting is right. I also think WS realizes this, or the info would be gone.

If you think about it, with todays technology and the corruption in some law enforcement agencies. Pulling this off wouldn't be that difficult. Load the guys computer. Cram a doll and some vaseline in his bag when you pick him up and throw away the key.

I also hope that if this is true, the truth be told. Many years before all this, my family and friends lives centered around the same ballpark where this Prosecutor so freely devoted his time serving as President of the GB Sports Assoc. I can't imagine the shock those that knew him experienced. His family, his friends, his life....Gone.

Thanks, River, for your response. I live in GB and knew him very casually when my oldest DS played soccer at Shoreline. We moved a few years ago, and now my boys play sports at Tiger Point.

Of course, WSers are amazing sleuthers!!:) I definitely agree there is corruption in many places, including within LE. I just personally choose to base my opinions on evidence, and I haven't seen any to substantiate this alleged set-up.

Adnoid has addressed that WS has no liability, but that the individual posters do in post #97 on this thread. Again, it's a HUGE red flag to me when posters won't/don't provide any backup to support their allegations.

[who knew?]

Thanks, River, for your response. I live in GB and knew him very casually when my oldest DS played soccer at Shoreline. We moved a few years ago, and now my boys play sports at Tiger Point.

Of course, WSers are amazing sleuthers!!:) I definitely agree there is corruption in many places, including within LE. I just personally choose to base my opinions on evidence, and I haven't seen any to substantiate this alleged set-up.

Adnoid has addressed that WS has no liability, but that the individual posters do in post #97 on this thread. Again, it's a HUGE red flag to me when posters won't/don't provide any backup to support their allegations.

This is the last comment I'm going to make on this subject (stop the cheering folks :) ) - I feel very strongly about this because I can't imagine the pain this man and his family went through - especially knowing it wasn't true. In one second, this man lost all credibility and his family lost all they knew and loved - because of the evilness of another person.

I understand I can't post names that are not out there - I thought it was liability on WS and my part - now I hear it's just me ---- and that's fine with me. I just won't post them because I can't afford to be sued. :rolleyes: It really won't matter to me - just hoping for some feedback and help with the sleuthing. But I have my own site for that, and I will keep the speculative stuff there until I see it mentioned here. A friend started the cab tice thread - we knew he was involved, just not in what aspect - but it was taken down. Then - he came out in the papers, and the Tice thread was created by someone else. That's why this is confusing to me......

No problem here............. now, back to sleuthing

[JBean]

One thing we have to be careful about is carrying unsubstantiated rumors. We have tried letting that fly and it is disastrous.
So speculating is fine, theorizing and deducing is welcome but be careful when it just comes down to plain old gossip. nothing good ever comes of it.
thanks.

[NSC]

BBM. He definitely is not the first person like this -- just read here on WS and you'll find many "upstanding citizens" whom committed horrific crimes:)

Now that Ricks article is out, I feel comfortable making this statement. Since you have some proof that the MM is involved, something most of us have known for weeks. IMO, MM has imbedded itself into this local town. From the higher up to the lower chain. The highest chain of command controls people in this town like puppets, IMO. The MM could and IMO, people involved and controlled by them did set up that prosecutor - JMO. But as you see, even the the perps involved here don't want to name names out of fear. This is case is pretty scary but there are people out there that know names and the truth!!!

[Gene]

New Article in The Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-10/did-the-mafia-kill-the-parents-of-17/?cid=hp:featureline

Now my interpretation:

I guess what Rick is getting at is that the Mafia was angry that Billings was taken legal action, which was putting pressure on Tice's business and shutting down Mafia operations.

Probably Billings was putting pressure on Tice and threatened to go public. So, the Mafia ordered the hit, to stop Billings and allow Tice to return to business as usual.

Tice didn't order the hit (he didnt have the money to pay for it anyway) he was just a go-between, sort of contractor.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this interpretation?

[passionflower]

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090415_when_mexican_drug_trade_hits_border

how it works

[daisy7]

Now that Ricks article is out, I feel comfortable making this statement. Since you have some proof that the MM is involved, something most of us have known for weeks. IMO, MM has imbedded itself into this local town. From the higher up to the lower chain. The highest chain of command controls people in this town like puppets, IMO. The MM could and IMO, people involved and controlled by them did set up that prosecutor - JMO. But as you see, even the the perps involved here don't want to name names out of fear. This is case is pretty scary but there are people out there that know names and the truth!!!

Respectfully, BBM.

So, basically you're saying that all of P'Cola is being controlled by MM??:crazy:

How'd they deal with the strong GOB network in Pensacola? Cuz, it's the GOB that runs things here.

And, they managed to do all this in 5 years? Have they gotten to Morgan, yet? And, how about Eddins? How about Chief Mathis?

I am not saying that MM is not here. They are a documented gang in both Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties. And, I am not saying there isn't corruption here, of course there is. There's a lot across FL, which is why we have Sunshine Laws.

But the idea that corruption in this little town is being directed by the MM is ludicrous, IMO. I look forward to hearing what other local posters think about this.

[who knew?]

Respectfully, BBM.

So, basically you're saying that all of P'Cola is being controlled by MM??:crazy:

How'd they deal with the strong GOB network in Pensacola? Cuz, it's the GOB that runs things here.

And, they managed to do all this in 5 years? Have they gotten to Morgan, yet? And, how about Eddins? How about Chief Mathis?

I am not saying that MM is not here. They are a documented gang in both Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties. And, I am not saying there isn't corruption here, of course there is. There's a lot across FL, which is why we have Sunshine Laws.

But the idea that corruption in this little town is being directed by the MM is ludicrous, IMO. I look forward to hearing what other local posters think about this.

Daisy - I realize you're really intelligent and well-connected and all - but we have been telling you this, and now it has appeared in Rick's article - and the sheriff confirmed it ------- what do you know that the sheriff doesn't that makes you think it's ludicrous?? :confused:

[passionflower]

Billings, Jr, Tabatha,Fausti,Tice all left country on many business deals....and where did the whole BILLINGS family take a crusie to (CARNIVAL) a couple weeks before they were murdered? Columbia??? JMO

[daisy7]

New Article in The Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-10/did-the-mafia-kill-the-parents-of-17/?cid=hp:featureline

Now my interpretation:

I guess what Rick is getting at is that the Mafia was angry that Billings was taken legal action, which was putting pressure on Tice's business and shutting down Mafia operations.

Probably Billings was putting pressure on Tice and threatened to go public. So, the Mafia ordered the hit, to stop Billings and allow Tice to return to business as usual.

Tice didn't order the hit (he didnt have the money to pay for it anyway) he was just a go-between, sort of contractor.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this interpretation?

ITA! And, it seems Billings IS the good guy in all of this mess. Interestingly, the local rumor right after the murders was exactly this - that a business partner of Byrd was laundering money, Billings found out about it and tried to put a stop to it.

But, if the MM did order a hit for this reason, I still have many questions. Why were the murders committed when they were and where they were? Why was Melanie killed? And, why didn't they kill others who had to know about this, such as Ashley and Blue?

I look forward to seeing Dateline tonight!:)

[daisy7]

Daisy - I realize you're really intelligent and well-connected and all - but we have been telling you this, and now it has appeared in Rick's article - and the sheriff confirmed it ------- what do you know that the sheriff doesn't that makes you think it's ludicrous?? :confused:

It's one thing to say that MM ordered this hit, which I am not saying is not true. But, it's a HUGE leap to say that MM is controlling people in this town "like puppets", from the higher ups on down:)

[who knew?]

MO is that Dateline will not have much more than Rick- and Rick is still working on the story. So as Rick continues to update, you will get the whole story. Obviously BB was completely involved - dirty business dealings - the fact that Mel was killed, too, IMO proves it was a hit. As for Ashley and Blue, I have my own opinion, but no solid facts at this point to back it up - however, I'm still looking. We can all just sit back and let Rick tell the story.

[justathought]

[quote=Gene;4028042]There is alot of new stuff about Tice in this article, but it creates alot of new questions...

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090808/NEWS01/908080329

For example:
* Tice has been living AND working at Bobby English Auto Sales. Bobby English did not know that Tice was under investigation???
* Tice is broke. But where did he get the money to travel to Columbia?
* Now Robert Beasley is the Billings Attorney? What happed to Crystal Spencer???
* Beasley is saying "He thought the world of Melanie. She was a saintly person. He really had a true affection for her," attorney Robert Beasley said. "It would be difficult to believe that Cab would be involved with her getting hurt." Why would an attorney of the Billings say that??????????
* Tice's ex is coming to his defence. Why would SHE do that?

BBM Because none of them want LE digging any deeper They want this part of the investigation to "go away" and the reporters to back off.

[who knew?]

[quote=Gene;4028042]There is alot of new stuff about Tice in this article, but it creates alot of new questions...

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090808/NEWS01/908080329

For example:
* Tice has been living AND working at Bobby English Auto Sales. Bobby English did not know that Tice was under investigation???
* Tice is broke. But where did he get the money to travel to Columbia?
* Now Robert Beasley is the Billings Attorney? What happed to Crystal Spencer???
* Beasley is saying "He thought the world of Melanie. She was a saintly person. He really had a true affection for her," attorney Robert Beasley said. "It would be difficult to believe that Cab would be involved with her getting hurt." Why would an attorney of the Billings say that??????????
* Tice's ex is coming to his defence. Why would SHE do that?

BBM Because none of them want LE digging any deeper They want this part of the investigation to "go away" and the reporters to back off.

I agree - they want this stopped. It's gonna end up hurting a lot of "used car dealers" and expose a lot of shady deals. Mel and Bud paid the ultimate price, but there are a lot more involved than just them, and they're all in CYA mode. Tice is dirty, but he was a victim - he was framed - something that these type of people are really good at. Remember the state attorney and the child porn case???

[passionflower]

Did Tice get a free ride to Columbia from one of the players?
Debbie Tice has signed allot of the papers .......documents.......can be seen on
www.acandyrose.com If X goes down she may also........JMO
Tice broke in USA, rich man in Columbia?
Why live at a dealership owned by someone else.........a 24 hour front for something like drugs?

[daisy7]

I agree - they want this stopped. It's gonna end up hurting a lot of "used car dealers" and expose a lot of shady deals. Mel and Bud paid the ultimate price, but there are a lot more involved than just them, and they're all in CYA mode. Tice is dirty, but he was a victim - he was framed - something that these type of people are really good at. Remember the state attorney and the child porn case???

BBM. Tice is a victim?? And, he was framed for writing bad checks by MM?:confused:

[NSC]

Do I think Morgan is corrupt? HECK NO! However, if you look into the world wide arena of politics - people owe people favors. That is how they get appointed, elected and so on and so forth. Money talks. So, I don't feel it is a stretch to say that there is a lot of insider activity going on within your community that people would never dream of. And I think the hit on the Billings has "higher" up people SCRAMBLING because there are now others looking into "others" business dealings. Sometimes, it take a change of control of power in a town to get to the bottom of "things" --- aka your new Sheriff. Also, I wouldn't rule out the surrounding towns as well. There really isn't any more for me to say today. It is okay for us to disagree.

[daisy7]

Do I think Morgan is corrupt? HECK NO! However, if you look into the world wide arena of politics - people owe people favors. That is how they get appointed, elected and so on and so forth. Money talks. So, I don't feel it is a stretch to say that there is a lot of insider activity going on within your community that people would never dream of. And I think the hit on the Billings has "higher" up people SCRAMBLING because there are now others looking into "others" business dealings. Sometimes, it take a change of control of power in a town to get to the bottom of "things" --- aka your new Sheriff. Also, I wouldn't rule out the surrounding towns as well. There really isn't any more for me to say today. It is okay for us to disagree.

NSC - I totally agree with the bolded part -- that's how GOB runs things here. But, I totally disagree that MM is directing the GOB here.

:blowkiss:

[who knew?]

BBM. Tice is a victim?? And, he was framed for writing bad checks by MM?:confused:

That's not what I said Daisy - I said in the MURDER OF BILLINGS'S, Tice was set up to take the fall. I don't think he ordered the murder - he was USED by MM and therefore is A VICTIM OF MM. Unfortunately for MM, too much has come to light - and now the truth is coming out.
Tice was dirty - I already said that - but he didn't order the hit on BB.

Is that a little clearer?

Also - Sheriff Morgan is the best thing that has happened in the P'cola area in a long time - I hope he will be able to clean the area up. It's full of dirt as is the surrounding areas.

[RiverPirate]

New Article in The Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-10/did-the-mafia-kill-the-parents-of-17/?cid=hp:featureline

Now my interpretation:

I guess what Rick is getting at is that the Mafia was angry that Billings was taken legal action, which was putting pressure on Tice's business and shutting down Mafia operations.

Probably Billings was putting pressure on Tice and threatened to go public. So, the Mafia ordered the hit, to stop Billings and allow Tice to return to business as usual.

Tice didn't order the hit (he didnt have the money to pay for it anyway) he was just a go-between, sort of contractor.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this interpretation?

Seems like a plan. I'm thinking the MM may have lit a fire under their butts that they won't be able to put out for a very long time.

[justathought]

For you sleuthers who are digging in:
Tice's bad checks...not sure how many or the amount...but the fact they were ignored for over a year when a complaint has been made seems odd....(would be here).....would it be possible to do some comparative with other bad check writers........in court records, the warrants office, etc.
In other words, do bad check writers not get prosecuted or was it just this bad check writer didn't get pursued? That situation really seems odd. Here, if a check isn't paid, it's turned over to the constable's office, who strongly encourages one to take care of it through that office with fees attached prior to going before the judge, as I recall.

[Lossmitpro]

Probably Billings was putting pressure on Tice and threatened to go public. So, the Mafia ordered the hit, to stop Billings and allow Tice to return to business as usual.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this interpretation?

Yes. I've already given my (sure to be unpopular) opinion on this, so I won't belabor it, but just once more to be clear, IMHO:

* Tice and Billings were about equally dirty. No heroes here, folks.
* The Billings aligned with Debbie in the divorce action, and had other issues with Tice.
* Tice and Jr. were 'like father and son'
* I am sure there is a ton of corruption in Pcola, and that some of it has threads that touch players here.
* I am sure the MM is a bunch of bad dudes, with tentacles extending up into Pcola, and perhaps even touching on these players.
* Occam's razor tells me that Tice had the means, motive, and method to take care of his emotional, financial, and potentially legal problems, through eliminating Billings, but that *to date* (all of my positions are provisional, and will be swayed by new facts) the last people that would want to off Billings in a spectacular, and non-characteristic way, sure to draw public scrutiny and outrage, is the MM. The person screaming "MM" is Tice, and through JR it seems quite reasonable that Jr used that tidbit to get mystery and respect going in the minds of his gang. But I predict none of them NOT ONE, including Jr, will have anything of significance to provide LE about MM, that can lead to other investigations and parties, outside of Tice, even to bail their own fat out of the fire. To me, until proven otherwise, the buck stops with him, NOT that the interest of LE and them shaking the trees won't root out some other corruption and figures, but that's the extent of it.

I will be happy to be wrong, because that would mean more bad guys go to jail..

[Sanddollar14]

Thanks NSC and everyone else for all of your links and updates. Having lived in Destin in the past, I am blown away with what has happened in the panhandle. What is GOB?

[daisy7]

GOB = Good Ole Boy

ETA - Here is a a link to one of Rick's blogs titled "End GOB Rule"

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=3444

[Sanddollar14]

Thanks Daisy. That is very interesting. It looks like Rick is doing some great investigative journalism.

[RiverPirate]

Yes. I've already given my (sure to be unpopular) opinion on this, so I won't belabor it, but just once more to be clear, IMHO:

* Tice and Billings were about equally dirty. No heroes here, folks.
* The Billings aligned with Debbie in the divorce action, and had other issues with Tice.
* Tice and Jr. were 'like father and son'
* I am sure there is a ton of corruption in Pcola, and that some of it has threads that touch players here.
* I am sure the MM is a bunch of bad dudes, with tentacles extending up into Pcola, and perhaps even touching on these players.
* Occam's razor tells me that Tice had the means, motive, and method to take care of his emotional, financial, and potentially legal problems, through eliminating Billings, but that *to date* (all of my positions are provisional, and will be swayed by new facts) the last people that would want to off Billings in a spectacular, and non-characteristic way, sure to draw public scrutiny and outrage, is the MM. The person screaming "MM" is Tice, and through JR it seems quite reasonable that Jr used that tidbit to get mystery and respect going in the minds of his gang. But I predict none of them NOT ONE, including Jr, will have anything of significance to provide LE about MM, that can lead to other investigations and parties, outside of Tice, even to bail their own fat out of the fire. To me, until proven otherwise, the buck stops with him, NOT that the interest of LE and them shaking the trees won't root out some other corruption and figures, but that's the extent of it.

I will be happy to be wrong, because that would mean more bad guys go to jail..

I hope you're right. If such an organization has their claws as deep into our businesses and Govt. as is being suggested, it will be a long road trying to get them out.

I absolutely agree the very last thing the MM would want is attention.

Also, there's another gang being mentioned from the beginning. MS-13. Wonder if Tice may have been coached to blabber MM in order to take the heat off the MS-13 angle?

[Gene]

* Occam's razor tells me that Tice had the means, motive, and method to take care of his emotional, financial, and potentially legal problems, through eliminating Billings, but that *to date* (all of my positions are provisional, and will be swayed by new facts) the last people that would want to off Billings in a spectacular, and non-characteristic way, sure to draw public scrutiny and outrage, is the MM. ..

Loss, what bothers me about your theory, is Tice's lifestyle. He closed his business and spent the last 1 year living in a trailor behind English Bobby's used car lot while working as a sales manager!!! Bobby said the guy had been living previously in motels and was pennyless.

Ok, you can say he got his money out of the US and put it in Columbia and this was an act. But people like Tice are doing these crimes to live like austere monks. They are doing them to enjoy the highlife.

No, I do not think that Tice had the wherewithall to contract out the hit. If he did, he would have simply paid off Billings, lived a nice life and avoided the mess he is currently in.

[Lossmitpro]

Loss, what bothers me about your theory, is Tice's lifestyle. He closed his business and spent the last 1 year living in a trailor behind English Bobby's used car lot while working as a sales manager!!! Bobby said the guy had been living previously in motels and was pennyless.

Ok, you can say he got his money out of the US and put it in Columbia and this was an act. But people like Tice are doing these crimes to live like austere monks. They are doing them to enjoy the highlife.

No, I do not think that Tice had the wherewithall to contract out the hit. If he did, he would have simply paid off Billings, lived a nice life and avoided the mess he is currently in.

You make some compelling arguments. I guess I will have to be happy to wait and see how things unwind. I am usually pretty cynical about government and LE beyond the worker-bee level, but I have a feeling that this sheriff is going to follow the leads where ever they go.

[Gene]

But, if the MM did order a hit for this reason, I still have many questions. Why were the murders committed when they were and where they were? Why was Melanie killed? And, why didn't they kill others who had to know about this, such as Ashley and Blue?

I look forward to seeing Dateline tonight!:)

Have you seen Ricks most recent post?

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7141

Since this happened only 3 months before, it might answer one of your questions: "Why were the murders committed when they were?.... "

[daisy7]

This is not directed at any specific poster, but Colombia (the country) is spelled with an O in the middle instead of a U.

:blowkiss:

[daisy7]

Have you seen Ricks most recent post?

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7141

Since this happened only 3 months before, it might answer one of your questions: "Why were the murders committed when they were?.... "

Thanks, Gene, for letting me know about Rick's newest blog.

I should have clarified my earlier post to say why were the Billings murdered at home ~7:00pm when their kids were there?

[Gene]

Thanks, Gene, for letting me know about Rick's newest blog.

I should have clarified my earlier post to say why were the Billings murdered at home ~7:00pm when their kids were there?

Daisy: That was explained by Sheriff Morgan a couple of weeks ago. He said that the Ninjas had done a trial run earlier, but got frightened away by motion sensitive lights.

In other words, during the evening, when a car pulls up, the lights go on and everyone is alerted. During the daylight hours, no one sees the lights go on.

I will look for the link and come back if (when) I find it..

Found it: There was also an attempt to enter the Billings home a few nights before the murders... But the group was scared off by motion-detecting lights outside the home.

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2855.shtml

If the link above does not work, try Google Cache:

http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:qgXPfSmFAogJ:www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2855.shtml+%22But+the+group+was+scared+of f+by+motion-%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

[redfish]

Respectfully, BBM.

So, basically you're saying that all of P'Cola is being controlled by MM??:crazy:

How'd they deal with the strong GOB network in Pensacola? Cuz, it's the GOB that runs things here.

And, they managed to do all this in 5 years? Have they gotten to Morgan, yet? And, how about Eddins? How about Chief Mathis?

I am not saying that MM is not here. They are a documented gang in both Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties. And, I am not saying there isn't corruption here, of course there is. There's a lot across FL, which is why we have Sunshine Laws.



But the idea that corruption in this little town is being directed by the MM is ludicrous, IMO. I look forward to hearing what other local posters think about this.


Bolded by me:)
I am from the area, and yes this is not only possible it is probable. And has been -- under one name or the other for years. Not just this town, all along the Gulf Coast. You don't know your neighbors.

[daisy7]

[/B]


Bolded by me:)
I am from the area, and yes this is not only possible it is probable. And has been -- under one name or the other for years. Not just this town, all along the Gulf Coast. You don't know your neighbors.

Do you still live here? What makes you think this? And, what's another name that the MM has used?

TIA!

[daisy7]

The used car business is a closed society, a private club that doesn’t like outsiders. Since the murders of Bud and Melanie Billings, I have tired to gather information on two figures tied to the used car business – Bud and Cab Tice.

No one will go on the record, but several have been willing to talk, if I kept their names out of it. The pictures that I get of the two men is filled with contradictions — but few of us are all good or all bad.

(snipped)

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7144

[redfish]

Do you still live here? What makes you think this? And, what's another name that the MM has used?

TIA!

No, Daisy, I am not living there now. But my family is. Organized Crime is organized crime not matter what they call themselves.... and it is nothing new to the area.... I think you called it "GOB" same thing different face. They just have more competition now.

[daisy7]

No, Daisy, I am not living there now. But my family is. Organized Crime is organized crime not matter what they call themselves.... and it is nothing new to the area.... I think you called it "GOB" same thing different face. They just have more competition now.

Thanks for your response, Redfish.

So, do you think it's the Mexican Mafia running the organized crime?

[redfish]

Thanks for your response, Redfish.

So, do you think it's the Mexican Mafia running the organized crime?

Well..... I think the GOB is struggling.... they can be very rough but they didn't used to be so trigger happy and obvious.... Unfortunately I must say that everybody kind of "learned how to work with them". Who ever we are dealing with now does not even pretend to play us along.... they are in your face evil.... I recognize them even when I don't know their name!! I think GOB is as nervous as we are, the power is shifting.:eek:

[redfish]

well..... I think the gob is struggling.... They can be very rough but they didn't used to be so trigger happy and obvious.... Unfortunately i must say that everybody kind of "learned how to work with them". Who ever we are dealing with now does not even pretend to play us along.... They are in your face evil.... I recognize them even when i don't know their name!! I think gob is as nervous as we are, the power is shifting.:eek:

oooops, imo!!!!!!

[mikeysmommom]

Respectfully, BBM.

So, basically you're saying that all of P'Cola is being controlled by MM??:crazy:

How'd they deal with the strong GOB network in Pensacola? Cuz, it's the GOB that runs things here.

And, they managed to do all this in 5 years? Have they gotten to Morgan, yet? And, how about Eddins? How about Chief Mathis?

I am not saying that MM is not here. They are a documented gang in both Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties. And, I am not saying there isn't corruption here, of course there is. There's a lot across FL, which is why we have Sunshine Laws.

But the idea that corruption in this little town is being directed by the MM is ludicrous, IMO. I look forward to hearing what other local posters think about this.

The GOB need someone to do their dirty work ,and they also need people with connections in other countries.As a local I would keep both my eyes open Daisy it may seem like paradise but the fact is its very corrupt as you will see very soon.

[daisy7]

The GOB need someone to do their dirty work ,and they also need people with connections in other countries.As a local I would keep both my eyes open Daisy it may seem like paradise but the fact is its very corrupt as you will see very soon.

Again, I'm not saying there is no corruption here, there's a lot. The "dirty work" the GOB does is about political favoritism, which may results in some "stealing" money, etc. but not murder. Why would the GOB need int'l. connections to do the very "local" dirty work?

Interestingly, the street I live on is called Paradise Bay:)

[mikeysmommom]

Again, I'm not saying there is no corruption here, there's a lot. But, why would the GOB need int'l. connections?

Interestingly, the street I live on is Paradise Bay:)


They send the cars,drugs back and forth to Colombia and Mexico as well as other counties.For the business most GOB are involved in they need International connections.

[UnderDog]

http://www.newsherald.com/news/photo-73989-milton-cash.html

I wonder what this guy was doing in Milton, Florida? I'm not going to post every link to every story, but it just shows that Sheriff Morgan has many challenges, as well as the members of the communities in Escambia County or Santa Rosa County.

[daisy7]

http://www.newsherald.com/news/photo-73989-milton-cash.html

I wonder what this guy was doing in Milton, Florida? I'm not going to post every link to every story, but it just shows that Sheriff Morgan has many challenges, as well as the members of the communities in Escambia County or Santa Rosa County.

Milton is not in Escambia County -- it's the county seat for SR -- so I don't see how this is any way related to Sheriff Morgan.:confused:

Also, how is this article related to this case?

[Choux]

We all know how the song goes..."cops on the corner always ignore, somebody's getting paid."

I stated in an earlier post, back in the early 90s to 2003 I worked for some "people", I even unknowingly assisted with money laundering for a couple of years for them.

This isn't even half of what all has and IS still going on. The only thing that "blows me away" is how the majority of the "dealings" take place right in front of the general public, yet hardly anybody ever suspects a thing, as the key players, are such well respected, fine upstanding, pillar's of the community.

Unfortunately, for those who do realize what is going on, what can they do?

90% of the stuff sounds like something you would see in a movie or read from a book, friends, neighbors, etc. won't believe you, until they see it for themselves. Of course, then they're in the same boat, until you can get thousands of others to "see it" and the protesting begins.

The majority of the police don't care, unless it's coming down to a case of them going down in the process. The truly honest police nowadays, are few and far between.

The gov't won't do anything, because at least half of the officials are just as corrupt, if not more so.

When they do, they always whitewash the heck out of it, select a few disposables to set as the "we caught the ringleaders public examples" , public is happy and then it's forgotten again, until the next time. Rinse and repeat.

Even with the best scenario where the majority of the officials are honest, the few dishonest cover tracks, alter the paper trails etc. making it nearly impossible to get evidence and a conviction in most cases.

As far as Tice goes, I think he's just another nauplius out of the world's great oceans.

[Lindadanette]

And at least one of those people who "has the same name" is still in the story - just not yet named by the media. . . If you read the first chapter on this forum - you'll see that there was speculation that became fact rather quickly - don't you agree?

This is a bigger story than has been reported - even Sheriff Brown says so. . .

[Choux]

I hope you're right. If such an organization has their claws as deep into our businesses and Govt. as is being suggested, it will be a long road trying to get them out.

I absolutely agree the very last thing the MM would want is attention.

Also, there's another gang being mentioned from the beginning. MS-13. Wonder if Tice may have been coached to blabber MM in order to take the heat off the MS-13 angle?

Bolded by me.

It's in every major city and minor cities worldwide. Everybody involved is "connected" Montauk to Miami, Brownsville to Naples etc.

From what I experienced during my time of working with crooked people, the higher ups, laugh at the word "mafia". I heard the word "mafia" was originally made up by the governments to give a "name", a "label" to all forms of organized crime.

I've heard these kind of people ask, "The mob? A mob? How many people does it take to qualify being a mob?"

The last part of that question referencing to the fact, that while yes indeed, many people may be involved at different levels, the ultimate decisions are made by one person.

Getting to that one person, is nearly impossible. Not to mention, as soon as one does go down, another immediately takes their place, and it's back to "family" business as usual.

So yes, using the word "mafia" to throw off the trail to the real "family/organization" behind it is quite likely, as for the most part they treat the word as a joke.

[daisy7]

And at least one of those people who "has the same name" is still in the story - just not yet named by the media. . . If you read the first chapter on this forum - you'll see that there was speculation that became fact rather quickly - don't you agree?

This is a bigger story than has been reported - even Sheriff Brown says so. . .

Who's Sheriff Brown?:confused:

[NSC]

We all know how the song goes..."cops on the corner always ignore, somebody's getting paid."

I stated in an earlier post, back in the early 90s to 2003 I worked for some "people", I even unknowingly assisted with money laundering for a couple of years for them.

This isn't even half of what all has and IS still going on. The only thing that "blows me away" is how the majority of the "dealings" take place right in front of the general public, yet hardly anybody ever suspects a thing, as the key players, are such well respected, fine upstanding, pillar's of the community.

Unfortunately, for those who do realize what is going on, what can they do?

90% of the stuff sounds like something you would see in a movie or read from a book, friends, neighbors, etc. won't believe you, until they see it for themselves. Of course, then they're in the same boat, until you can get thousands of others to "see it" and the protesting begins.

The majority of the police don't care, unless it's coming down to a case of them going down in the process. The truly honest police nowadays, are few and far between.

The gov't won't do anything, because at least half of the officials are just as corrupt, if not more so.

When they do, they always whitewash the heck out of it, select a few disposables to set as the "we caught the ringleaders public examples" , public is happy and then it's forgotten again, until the next time. Rinse and repeat.

Even with the best scenario where the majority of the officials are honest, the few dishonest cover tracks, alter the paper trails etc. making it nearly impossible to get evidence and a conviction in most cases.

As far as Tice goes, I think he's just another nauplius out of the world's great oceans.



:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::cla p::clap::clap:

:bang:

:blowkiss:

[Lindadanette]

Who's Sheriff Brown?:confused:

Sorry I was just reading on another case. . . You know who I mean :rolleyes:

[daisy7]

Posting information you have that can be backed up is fine.

Having information you cannot post until you can back it up, and later posting it when you can back it up, is fine.

Telling everyone you have information but you can't post it is obnoxious and pointless. Don't do it.

Just bumping this post from Adnoid. No, I am not a mod, but I DID sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.:)

[lexus116]

This is a bit off topic, but it's relevant. I've had some discussions with some people that live outside the Pensacola/Gulf Breeze area today that aren't familiar with the way our LE/community leaders handle things around here. They assumed when certain crimes didn't get a lot of media attention it was due to the fact that it was a "mass cover up" to hide deeper illegal activities, such as the Mexican Mafia in the area, etc (which in part could be true). But, you also have to understand, our community is dependent upon the tourist industry. The powers that be here don't like anything publicized that could possibly tarnish our image and scare tourist away, because God forbid anything interfere with the almighty tourist dollar. It's always been that way.

Someone (I believe Daisy) asked in a previous post what other locals think regarding the corruption in our area. Here is my 2 cents - I'm a local and I've lived here for 40 years. I'm not the type of person that sees a conspiracy theory in every little crime, nor am I generally cynical. I'm not naive either though. I do believe mass corruption is deeply imbedded within our community. Don't think for a minute that the good ole' boys around here aren't capable of being involved in a murder for hire scheme. I also know that the one's people consider to be 'pillars of the community' are some of the most crooked ones. I could provide example after example.

In my opinion, I don't think the Mexican Mafia runs this town by any means, but I do believe they've 'set up shop' here.

[Lindadanette]

Tice looks like a "dead man walking" to me - he's been on a downward spiral for a long time. I was surprised to hear him say that Billings always had a bundle of cash on him - maybe that's why he thought he could "get away" with owing Bud for a little bit longer. . .

Makes you wonder if Tice was a good judge of character.

I mean, if he was LPG's "mentor", you would think he knew what a powder keg LPG was. It's not like LPG just went of this one time. Didn''t Tice employ LPG as a "henchman" - I think I read that somewhere.

So is Tice a two-bit player? Or is he just playing one?

[JBean]

Please stop taking swipes at one another. It's not allowed here.

Please stay on topic.

thanks

[UnderDog]

Milton is not in Escambia County -- it's the county seat for SR -- so I don't see how this is any way related to Sheriff Morgan.:confused:

Also, how is this article related to this case?

Hi Daisy, I found the article interesting in that it was originally a simple traffic violation and eluding police. They found a small amount of drugs and cash. Seemed like an open and shut case. Then they got a warrant to search the entire rig and it turns into a major drug bust with $100k in cash. First, it shows there is sometimes "more to the story" with a thorough investigation. Second, it shows that some major drug trafficking is going on in North Florida. Third, the "stash" was well-concealed within the vehicle, the same way it can be concealed in used cars. Fourth, it's quite possible the perp is associated with an organization, considering the amount of drugs and cash and the "body work" to conceal them.

[daisy7]

This is a bit off topic, but it's relevant. I've had some discussions with some people that live outside the Pensacola/Gulf Breeze area today that aren't familiar with the way our LE/community leaders handle things around here. They assumed when certain crimes didn't get a lot of media attention it was due to the fact that it was a "mass cover up" to hide deeper illegal activities, such as the Mexican Mafia in the area, etc (which in part could be true). But, you also have to understand, our community is dependent upon the tourist industry. The powers that be here don't like anything publicized that could possibly tarnish our image and scare tourist away, because God forbid anything interfere with the almighty tourist dollar. It's always been that way.

Someone (I believe Daisy) asked in a previous post what other locals think regarding the corruption in our area. Here is my 2 cents - I'm a local and I've lived here for 40 years. I'm not the type of person that sees a conspiracy theory in every little crime, nor am I generally cynical. I'm not naive either though. I do believe mass corruption is deeply imbedded within our community. Don't think for a minute that the good ole' boys around here aren't capable of being involved in a murder for hire scheme. I also know that the one's people consider to be 'pillars of the community' are some of the most crooked ones. I could provide example after example.

In my opinion, I don't think the Mexican Mafia runs this town by any means, but I do believe they've 'set up shop' here.

Thanks, Lexus, for an awesome post! Yes, there is lots of corruption here, but it's not being run by the MM, IMO.

As I posted previously, we definitely have gangs here. I remember one week maybe a month ago when we had 5-6 drive-by shootings in one week in Escambia. And, MM is a documented gang in Escambia and Santa Rosa Counties.

Many people here have tried to ignore this growing problem, but Sheriff Morgan is publicly addressing it.

http://www.nbc15online.com/news/local/story/Investigators-Amp-Up-Gang-Patrols/hOoXdm9iRUy0_gKlJJHIGg.cspx

And, we even have gangs in GB. The back of the old CVS in the Winn Dixie shopping center was tagged twice in a week three months ago. There's also been tagging in Proper.

Here is a document about gangs that was created by SRSO and is distributed to families in SR.

[daisy7]

Hi Daisy, I found the article interesting in that it was originally a simple traffic violation and eluding police. They found a small amount of drugs and cash. Seemed like an open and shut case. Then they got a warrant to search the entire rig and it turns into a major drug bust with $100k in cash. First, it shows there is sometimes "more to the story" with a thorough investigation. Second, it shows that some major drug trafficking is going on in North Florida. Third, the "stash" was well-concealed within the vehicle, the same way it can be concealed in used cars. Fourth, it's quite possible the perp is associated with an organization, considering the amount of drugs and cash and the "body work" to conceal them.

Yes, I believe we do have drug trafficking here, as we do throughout our entire state. After all, FL is the gateway to Latin America.

Are you suggesting that Tice's cars that went to Mexico were filled with drugs? From what I understand about drug trafficking, drugs come OUT of Mexico to the US. There's no need to send them there.

I'm still confused about how this could be connected to this case. Please clarify it for me, so I can know what you're thinking. :blowkiss:

[UnderDog]

Yes, I believe we do have drug trafficking here, as we do throughout our entire state. After all, FL is the gateway to Latin America.

Are you suggesting that Tice's cars that went to Mexico were filled with drugs? From what I understand about drug trafficking, drugs come OUT of Mexico to the US. There's no need to send them there.

I'm still confused about how this could be connected to this case. Please clarify it for me, so I can know what you're thinking. :blowkiss:

Tice is allegedly involved with organized crime. While trafficking stolen cars is big business, the DEA has also been assisting (or directing) the investigation into the Billings murders. Florida is a distribution hub. If I was looking for a way to distribute drugs, I might look for a connection that has a car dealership with close ties to a body shop, like Fifth Dimension for instance. First stop might be an Alabama car dealership, or a luxury boat, or even packaged with antiques for further distribution. My only point was to demonstrate (with an article from a recent bust in the general area) how drugs are concealed in autos for distribution and how a simple case of speeding can turn into a major drug bust. In most of the recent threads, we have avoided any discussion of drugs which I believe is central to the investigation.

[swika]

Tice and others:

I hope some of the sleuthers will look into a W Va link for some clues. While searching, I keep ending up with Va and W-Va links for some indirect Wiggins familial listings, but because I've not been able to make any direct-connects, I move on. I keep thing it's just coincidence, and I don't want to create undue harm for innocent families.

Today there is a mention in Ricksblog comments from a commentor who knew Cabell from W-Va.

[Gene]

Tice and others:

I hope some of the sleuthers will look into a W Va link for some clues. While searching, I keep ending up with Va and W-Va links for some indirect Wiggins familial listings, but because I've not been able to make any direct-connects, I move on. I keep thing it's just coincidence, and I don't want to create undue harm for innocent families.

Today there is a mention in Ricksblog comments from a commentor who knew Cabell from W-Va.

Tice has several aunts from W. Va. I do not want to give the link, because that would be dragging in innocent people and I guess we are not supposed to do that.

But is it necessary? You can find the Tice/Wiggins connection right in Gulf Breeze. LPG Jr had a "father-son relationship" with Tice and a very, very close relationship with PLW. If he and his wife were witness at her wedding, rented a flat from her and possibly worked for her, is it so hard to imagine that he introduced his "father" (Tice, not LPG Sr) to her?

[Im4Tony]

Here is an interesting interview done by Dan Thomas of WEAR-TV3 with Cab Tice.

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_137.shtml

[papp6977]

I know Cab Tice and I knew Bud Billings. All I want to say is that I believe Cab had nothing to do with Buds murder. Yes,Cab and Bud had problems with each other,alot of people had problems with Bud and the way he did business, and alot of people lost everything because of Bud,and yes, Cab knew LPJ, but he shouldn't be considered guilty by association.I'm not saying Cab did right on the car situation,but as he stated himself,"Worldco is a Corporation, and whether Bud was alive or dead,I would still owe that money to the Corporation" end quote.

[daisy7]

Here is an interesting interview done by Dan Thomas of WEAR-TV3 with Cab Tice.

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_137.shtml

Wow - there's so much in this video and I haven't even finished watching it. The interviewer is very good.

Tice called the Sheriff's Office to let them know that Jr. hadn't answered his phone the night of the murders the day after the murders. Bizarre.

[Gene]

I know Cab Tice and I knew Bud Billings. All I want to say is that I believe Cab had nothing to do with Buds murder. Yes,Cab and Bud had problems with each other,alot of people had problems with Bud and the way he did business, and alot of people lost everything because of Bud,and yes, Cab knew LPJ, but he shouldn't be considered guilty by association.I'm not saying Cab did right on the car situation,but as he stated himself,"Worldco is a Corporation, and whether Bud was alive or dead,I would still owe that money to the Corporation" end quote.

Maybe. But Tice has proven himself to be vindictive. What did he do after he gave Billings rubber checks and Billing went to the police?

"Tice sent a letter to the feds." (IRS)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32364584/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/6/

Billings reaction of filing a police report was to recover money for his business. It sounds to me like Tices' reaction of writing a letter to the IRS was to punish Billings.

I also don't think that Tice hired the hit. I do not think he had the money to pay for it. But he was obviously very VERY angry with Billings. Angry enough to write a letter to the IRS. He had a close relationswhip with LPG Jr and with the mafia. I think only Tice, LPG and 1 or 2 other people really know what depth his involvment was.

[Lossmitpro]

Tice is odd -- he seemed so sincere, unscripted, and willing to work 'offthe cuff' without crossing himself up in a 'story' on Dateline and here.... it's a head scratcher if he is *not* the guy behind this.


Like on the 'made up' 50K figure -- I think Cab believes that it was made up. I recall reading that the amount was "something between 20-50K', and I'll bet that was an amalgam figure put together by the sheriff, and NOT just some inflated and "invented" amount, but I think Cab believes what he says about it.

Of course, this is a used car salesman, too.... amazing how he can generate good will in even a cynic like me, even in circumstances like these.... I really do believe he was totally legally broke (stashed funds offshore, or in offshore real estate?), and yet....it is difficult to believe he could have flown in such heights, traveled, bought and sold cars, gotten money from Billings, etc... is he just a good con man.....

even the trip out of US sounds 'plausible' when he says it....

[daisy7]

In the interview, Tice basically said the MM was brought in only cuz of Rick's Blog. I look forward to reading Rick's response to this.

[daisy7]

I agree, Loss, he does seem sincere. But, there are still lots of fishy things...

His dealership catered to Mexicans, mainly undocumented ones. Then the business started failing after SR did started arresting all the illegal aliens (there were a lot of raids at Mexican restaurants and nurseries IIRC - gonna go find a link). His whole explanation of how he ended up borrowing from the MM is ?? He got a 20k loan from a guy who worked for him and then it turns out it was from the MM?

Also, he clearly said the bad checks that he wrote to Bud, were known to be loans (cuz that's how the car business operates, he says). So, if it was a loan, why do a check instead of a prom. note. If Bud really thought this was a loan, why did he file a complaint with ECSO.

How did ECSO know about Tice's 20k loan from MM the night of the murders?

[daisy7]

Here's some links on the raids about undocumented workers:

http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/hall-2685-workers-business.html

http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/county-2702-task-force.html

[Gene]

Something Tice said in the interview seems odd to me...the phone call with Gonzalez. I would like to have a transcript to understand it clearly.

He said he called Gonzalez the night of the murder to ask for computer help. He did not speak to him, but left a message. Gonzalez called him back the day after the murder. After he spoke to Gonzalez and got through with a customer, he called the police....Tice Said: "I called the investigator and said I dont know if this is important......then the reporter Thomas interupts him.....then he told them that Patrick did not call him back, even though Patrick was not yet a suspect!!! Thomas says " Did you suspect Patrick?" Tice: "No I did not"

Why would he do that??? He said, it was because Patrick always called him back immediately. But he also said he did not suspect him. So, why would he call the Police simply because he did not immediately return a phone call???

Can you imagine this scenario:

* A business collegue is killed.
* You call a very close friend for another purpose (Computer help)
* Your friend does not call you back.
* The police call you that evening to ask you if you know anything about the murder
* The next morning, your friend calls you to see if you still need help.
* You call the police to tell them that your friend did not return your call until the next morning.

Would you do this? THAT is difficult to believe.

[Gene]

I agree, Loss, he does seem sincere. But, there are still lots of fishy things...

Also, he clearly said the bad checks that he wrote to Bud, were known to be loans (cuz that's how the car business operates, he says). So, if it was a loan, why do a check instead of a prom. note.

Exactly. Also he used the story about the post dated checks before:

http://www.bradleyarant.com/publications_opinions.php?ID=3624

He says, everyone in the business knows that you are not supposed to cash the checks. And yet, his best friend did it in Alabama, which is what led to the court case above. Then Billings does it. If everyone knows you are not supposed to do it, why is everyone doing it?

[KeenEyes]

Wow - there's so much in this video and I haven't even finished watching it. The interviewer is very good.

Tice called the Sheriff's Office to let them know that Jr. hadn't answered his phone the night of the murders the day after the murders. Bizarre.
Re: interviewer
ITA! Finally someone asks the obvious questions and at the most natural parts of the interview. I felt like I was querying Tice myself as I watched the video.

Re: Tice phone call to G/Jr
I pondered in post 22 of the dateline thread last night if Tice might have initiated the discussion about this call with LE as a stratagem to make it appear the call was a coincidence. BUT WHY would he volunteer it before G/Jr had even been connected to the murders?!

I was feeling totaled chastened about my assumptions in regards to Tice as I watched this candid interview, UNTIL his answer about this call, and his fumbling about the time G/Jr returned his call the next morning, AND his answer about not mentioning the murders to G/Jr during the returned call. WHAT?! I don't care if President Obama was standing there waiting to buy out my entire fleet of cars, I would have to say to G/Jr, "Have you heard the stunning news about the murders of our mutual business associate and FRIEND and his BELOVED WIFE, Saint Melanie for god's sake, and that their totally dependent children were in the home as well. OMG, G/Jr don't we hope those babies didn't see anything!"

[daisy7]

I don't find it it odd that Tice didn't speak about the murders when Jr. called him, cuz sometimes you just can't talk about personal stuff at work (especially with customers there). But, I do find it odd if Tice and Jr. didn't speak about the murders at all. IIRC, the reporter didn't ask about this, unless I missed it.

[Spyglass]

I got interrupted a couple of times while watching the wear tv interview with Tice, but I didn't see any mention of Wiggins. Tice said he didn't know any of the others charged in the murders, but I didn't hear a follow-up as to whether he knows Wiggins.

Another issue I've wondered about is Tice keeps saying even though he couldn't pay Worldco back, he had to scrape up the money he owed the MM. He goes on and on about how there was no way he could pay Worldco or they could collect their money from him. Then he describes Billings as so smart and talented about making money. He said something like Billings always comes out ahead, never loses. Huh? Worldco sure lost money with Tice.

[daisy7]

Tice said in the interview that Bud reportedly said he had more $ than he could spend in a lifetime (paraphrasing), but when Tice talked to him about Tice's business going under, Bud said he couldn't afford for that to happen?

[Dallasdon]

Something Tice said in the interview seems odd to me...the phone call with Gonzalez. I would like to have a transcript to understand it clearly.

He said he called Gonzalez the night of the murder to ask for computer help. He did not speak to him, but left a message. Gonzalez called him back the day after the murder. After he spoke to Gonzalez and got through with a customer, he called the police....Tice Said: "I called the investigator and said I dont know if this is important......then the reporter Thomas interupts him.....then he told them that Patrick did not call him back, even though Patrick was not yet a suspect!!! Thomas says " Did you suspect Patrick?" Tice: "No I did not"

Why would he do that??? He said, it was because Patrick always called him back immediately. But he also said he did not suspect him. So, why would he call the Police simply because he did not immediately return a phone call???

Can you imagine this scenario:

* A business collegue is killed.
* You call a very close friend for another purpose (Computer help)
* Your friend does not call you back.
* The police call you that evening to ask you if you know anything about the murder
* The next morning, your friend calls you to see if you still need help.
* You call the police to tell them that your friend did not return your call until the next morning.

Would you do this? THAT is difficult to believe.

Very well put.

This is the biggest flaw in an otherwise good interview.

What was Tices purpose in volunteering this info? Why not just leave it at "called that night for computer help, didn't connect until the next morning"?

Maybe what he meant was AFTER LPG Jr was arrested, Tice THEN informed the police about the phone call the night of the murders?

Otherwise, if he called the police that next morning after the murders, Tice might have been the one to put LPG Jr on the police's radar.

[KeenEyes]

I don't find it it odd that Tice didn't speak about the murders when Jr. called him, cuz sometimes you just can't talk about personal stuff at work (especially with customers there). But, I do find it odd if Tice and Jr. didn't speak about the murders at all. IIRC, the reporter didn't ask about this, unless I missed it.
I keep getting auto-logged out even when I just logged in, and I get redirected to a blank page rather than the reply I had just typed, so my message is lost, and I have to start over. [ETA: JBean kindly solved this mystery for me in the PLW thread]

Venting, please excuse digression.

Actual message: Yeah I can see this, but with the news so fresh and poignant, it seems like it would be major water cooler conversation. I would think everyone in Pensacola was talking about it, maybe even the customers. Though Tice did say the customers that morning were Hispanics, and said his Hispanic customers were normally low income and/or illegal; therefore, current events might not have been at the top of their list of concerns. Perhaps they didn't speak English and wouldn't have even noticed a news report announcing the murders.

I wonder what time Tice was questioned the night before. He was at work at least by 7 a.m. according to the video. Of course, living on the property would facilitate an early arrival at the job. I would have had a hard time sleeping even if I were innocent if the SD had tracked me down as a POI immediately following a double homicide, plus the disturbing news that the victims were my long-term pals even if we were estranged. Maybe he never went to sleep, which would also have been one of my reactions.

Just pondering out loud.

[Lindadanette]

It was a about 8 months later after bouncing the checks to Bud that Cab gave a letter to the IRS, and he was not the only person to do so.I believe there were 5 or so that also gave a letter to them.The ( persons ) felt that Bud was using illegal write offs on his taxes.

Do you know if the others, who sent letters to the IRS, were folks that the Billings had "helped", then "harmed" with loans?

[redfish]

Do you know if the others, who sent letters to the IRS, were folks that the Billings had "helped", then "harmed" with loans?

oops......where did it go??????!!!!!!!!:waitasec::crazy::waitasec:

[Lindadanette]

oops......where did it go??????!!!!!!!!:waitasec::crazy::waitasec:

Please edit your post to delete the name, and my mistake - thanks!

[Pcola Hog]

Tice calling LPG Jr at 7:15pm could also of been a preplanned signal/coded message, right?

Example 1) The message Tice left could say: I fixed my computer and it's working great now, thanks.

Code for: All camera's are shut down.

Example 2) The message Tice left could say: Having trouble need your help, working on my computer.

Code for: Having trouble shutting off cameras, cameras still working.


Criminals/drug dealers use coded words all day long on the streets or by phone.The stupid ones use the same code words over and over again making them useless, as in, is Mary Jane there (pot) or, it's Snowing (cocaine), etc...

[Gene]

Very well put.

This is the biggest flaw in an otherwise good interview.

What was Tices purpose in volunteering this info? Why not just leave it at "called that night for computer help, didn't connect until the next morning"?

Maybe what he meant was AFTER LPG Jr was arrested, Tice THEN informed the police about the phone call the night of the murders?

Otherwise, if he called the police that next morning after the murders, Tice might have been the one to put LPG Jr on the police's radar.

Totally agree. If he had some reason to suspect Gonzalez, then calling the police about the delayed phone call might make sense. But I can not imagine a reasonable person calling the police and telling them, "I called my friend for help at 7:15pm and he did not call me back that night. He waited until the next morning to call me."

The ONLY people I would absolutely expect to call back the same night is a spouse or a underage child and only because one might worry about their safety. If they did not call, I might be diasappointed, but I can not imagine calling the police on them.

I think that Tice is hiding something.

[RiverPirate]

I can't imagine that Tice would be stupid enough to call Jr. during the robbery if he was in on the plan. That said, we've already seen a humongous pile of stupidity from start to finish out of these murders.

Maybe the wheels started spinning in his head the morning after the murders. Maybe he was thinking "Did Jr. do this?" Maybe he didn't like the idea that Melanie was killed and thought he'd throw the Sheriff something to look at.

[Gene]

I can't imagine that Tice would be stupid enough to call Jr. during the robbery if he was in on the plan. That said, we've already seen a humongous pile of stupidity from start to finish out of these murders.

Maybe the wheels started spinning in his head the morning after the murders. Maybe he was thinking "Did Jr. do this?" Maybe he didn't like the idea that Melanie was killed and thought he'd throw the Sheriff something to look at.


It is not the call that bothers me. But first he said he was not suspicious of Gonzalez, yet he called the police to say that Gonzalez did not return his call.

He did not take the time to discuss the murder with Gonzalez when he called? Yet, he called the police to report that one of his closest friends did not return a call?

Think if you were in his shoes. would you do any of that stuff? Wouldn't you ask your friend first to see what his reaction would be? Wouldn't you want more information before calling the police on your friend?

This does not add up.

[KeenEyes]

Tice calling LPG Jr at 7:15pm could also of been a preplanned signal/coded message, right?

Example 1) The message Tice left could say: I fixed my computer and it's working great now, thanks.

Code for: All camera's are shut down.

Example 2) The message Tice left could say: Having trouble need your help, working on my computer.

Code for: Having trouble shutting off cameras, cameras still working.


Criminals/drug dealers use coded words all day long on the streets or by phone.The stupid ones use the same code words over and over again making them useless, as in, is Mary Jane there (pot) or, it's Snowing (cocaine), etc...
Oooh, brilliant deduction (sincerity intended).

[RiverPirate]

It is not the call that bothers me. But first he said he was not suspicious of Gonzalez, yet he called the police to say that Gonzalez did not return his call.

He did not take the time to discuss the murder with Gonzalez when he called? Yet, he called the police to report that one of his closest friends did not return a call?

Think if you were in his shoes. would you do any of that stuff? Wouldn't you ask your friend first to see what his reaction would be? Wouldn't you want more information before calling the police on your friend?


I'm sure I'd be scared to death if I were in his shoes. No telling what I'd do.

Without knowing what was said in the calls we could speculate all kinds of things. How do we know he didn't discuss the murder? Because a car salesman told us they didn't? Uh huh. Maybe they didn't discuss the murder and Tice and Jr. are close enough that Tice knew Jr.did it just on gut feeling. Maybe they did discuss the murder and JR told Tice flat out he did it.
Maybe Tice didn't want to come right out and say he was suspicious for fear of the others that may be involved coming after him.While at the same he was upset about the killings and wanted to at least put Jr. out there for the Sheriff in some way.

I'm thinking this is a possibility.
Suppose Tice knew absolutely nothing about the planned robbery. However, he had discussed the money at the Billings' home with Jr.while they were out getting drunk. Tice calls Jr. and Jr. doesn't call back. Next day the murders are all over the news. Tice's thinkin, " Damn, wonder if Jr. did that?" How do I go about not gettin dragged into all this?

[Gene]

I'm sure I'd be scared to death if I were in his shoes. No telling what I'd do.

Without knowing what was said in the calls we could speculate all kinds of things. How do we know he didn't discuss the murder? Because a car salesman told us they didn't? Uh huh. Maybe they didn't discuss the murder and Tice and Jr. are close enough that Tice knew Jr.did it just on gut feeling. Maybe they did discuss the murder and JR told Tice flat out he did it.
Maybe Tice didn't want to come right out and say he was suspicious for fear of the others that may be involved coming after him.While at the same he was upset about the killings and wanted to at least put Jr. out there for the Sheriff in some way.

I'm thinking this is a possibility.
Suppose Tice knew absolutely nothing about the planned robbery. However, he had discussed the money at the Billings' home with Jr.while they were out getting drunk. Tice calls Jr. and Jr. doesn't call back. Next day the murders are all over the news. Tice's thinkin, " Damn, wonder if Jr. did that?" How do I go about not gettin dragged into all this?

Tice is using a sales technique to convince the buyer that he is open and honest, sort of a pre-emptive strike. Goes something like this:

Imagine you are at a used car lot, you are interested in a car, but have not quite reached the decision to buy. The salesman says "Look don't tell the manager this, he would kill me. The brakes on that car are shot. It will cost you $500 to replace them. I am going to knock $1000 off the price for your costs and trouble." You think, damn, I would never have known about the brakes. This guy has saved me a bundle. But the salesman did not tell you that the engine is also shot and the transmission is on its last legs. In fact, the car is a dog. But by showing you his honesty and openess for part of the story, you accept that he is being honest and open and you do not question the rest of the story.

Tice did this by agreeing to do the interviews. It is so unusual for a suspect to talk off-script. But Tice is a Pro. He sells for a living and his abilities show. For most of the interview he is very open and very honest, so we want to accept his story. However, if you watch closely you will see little slip-ups like the phone call. There are others there too, but IMO the phone call is the big one.

He also made a pre-emptive strike by phoning the police the next morning. Rather than wait for the police to find out about the call and ask him about it, he decided to tell them about it. His willingness to cooperate reduces suspicion.

Now the question is, if he did not know or at least suspect that Gonzalez was behind it...why the need to tell the police about the call?

If he had said, "you know, I call Gonzalez often. In fact, I called him the night of the murder and left a message on his phone. I needed to speak to him about my computer. But I did not reach him and now I know why"....it would have been easier to accept. But the call to the police to tell them that Gonzalez did not return his call until the morning? I think that this shows he knew more than he is telling us.

[Sanddollar14]

I agree Gene. Thanks for explaining how a reasonable, rationale person would never report to the police what Tice did. While his sales experience is guiding him, it also may be his downfall IMO.

[RiverPirate]

Now the question is, if he did not know or at least suspect that Gonzalez was behind it...why the need to tell the police about the call?

If he had said, "you know, I call Gonzalez often. In fact, I called him the night of the murder and left a message on his phone. I needed to speak to him about my computer. But I did not reach him and now I know why"....it would have been easier to accept. But the call to the police to tell them that Gonzalez did not return his call until the morning? I think that this shows he knew more than he is telling us.

I think you've already answered your own question. It was part of his pre-emptive strike. Which falls right in with what I've been trying to say.

Also, as sanddollar14 said, it may be his downfall.

[megamami]

I have been reading for a while but am a newbie poster.
I see some inconsistencies in the two interviews that I have seen given by Tice: Dateline & WEAR)
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32364584/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/6/)
(http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_137.shtml)

In the WEAR TV, Tice tells Thomas (interviewer) that Billings did everything legal to get his money back, emphasizing, IMO, that while he may have been a "hard nose", Bud stayed within the law. But in the Dateline interview he says he turned Bud in for tax fraud, "Keith Morrison: You claim he was cheating the IRS? Cab Tice: Yes sir. " He downplays the animosity between he and Bud in the local (WEAR) interview, and chastises Rick's Blog for sensationalizing his bad relationship and involvement, but the Dateline interview also states "the animosity between the two became well known."

In the WEAR interview, he really tried to lift up LPG Jr's reputation but in the Dateline interview, he claims Jr was trying to borrow a van from him right before the murders to set him up. In the interview with WEAR, he doesn't mention that LPG Jr. came to see him that afternoon. Maybe that is why he was suspicious of Jr., though he claims that he wasn't?? I agree with previous posters that the phone call to police about Jr. not calling him back is STRANGE. There has to be more to it ...

And he keeps emphasizing how computer illiterate that he is ... just a feeling, but that seems strange.... (not that he would be so, but that he keeps interjecting it in the interviews.)

Just speculation: He says in the WEAR interview that he has been in the Billings home many times. It is possible that he could have supplied information about the home. Or the security system. He obviously knew (or assumed there was a lot of money there) and would have motive to be a part of a robbery to help pay off his loans, especially if they thought they wouldn't be recognized.

Something I read recently said that the Billings were in the living room and were dragged into the bedroom. Somebody had to know where the security cameras weren't????

[swika]

What if I was indeed calling about computer problems, but it wasn't about printing documents. What if I was having trouble with a remote connection not working properly?

[Lindadanette]

I agree with the thought processes going on here - Tice is playing possum. . .

I'm just wondering if there isn't an even bigger attempt at diversion going on here. Tice knows that his "protege" is behind bars but his "godfather" is very much at large. IMHO all of this talk about the "mexican mafia" is a smoke screen. The real movers and shakers are polo shirts and chinos.

[UnderDog]

I agree with the thought processes going on here - Tice is playing possum. . .

I'm just wondering if there isn't an even bigger attempt at diversion going on here. Tice knows that his "protege" is behind bars but his "godfather" is very much at large. IMHO all of this talk about the "mexican mafia" is a smoke screen. The real movers and shakers are polo shirts and chinos.

It must have been a pre-planned smokescreen since one of the perps in jail has said they are IN the "mexican mafia" and all of them have brought it up in interviews (according to Sheriff Morgan). The assumption is it's LPG that has made the claim, but it might be worth looking into the others as well. There's no doubt that polo shirts and chinos are probably involved, organized crime always establishes leverage among the local power-brokers.

[megamami]

IMHO all of this talk about the "mexican mafia" is a smoke screen. The real movers and shakers are polo shirts and chinos.

Yes, that would be more consistent with what I have observed around here.
I respect many of the sleuthers here, and am fascinated by the possible South American connections that have been unearthed. But being a local (but less than a decade), it does seem hard to believe that the GOBs are involved directly or controlled by the MM. It just wouldn't fit the character of the area (not exactly prejudiced, but let's say ... suspicious of foreigners ...lol, including northerners..) I can believe the retitled/stolen vehicle theory to other countries and higher ups looking the other way for some personal benefit.

This is just my opinion based on close looks I have taken at other political events in Escambia County. But it will be interesting to see how all this develops and where Tice fits in. I'm open to more facts.

[Gene]

I have been reading for a while but am a newbie poster.
I see some inconsistencies in the two interviews that I have seen given by Tice: Dateline & WEAR)
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32364584/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/6/)
(http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_137.shtml)

In the WEAR TV, Tice tells Thomas (interviewer) that Billings did everything legal to get his money back, emphasizing, IMO, that while he may have been a "hard nose", Bud stayed within the law. But in the Dateline interview he says he turned Bud in for tax fraud, "Keith Morrison: You claim he was cheating the IRS? Cab Tice: Yes sir. " He downplays the animosity between he and Bud in the local (WEAR) interview, and chastises Rick's Blog for sensationalizing his bad relationship and involvement, but the Dateline interview also states "the animosity between the two became well known."

In the WEAR interview, he really tried to lift up LPG Jr's reputation but in the Dateline interview, he claims Jr was trying to borrow a van from him right before the murders to set him up. In the interview with WEAR, he doesn't mention that LPG Jr. came to see him that afternoon.

You are not the first to notice inconsistancies:

Tice's comments regarding his relationship to Byrd Billings were "all over the map," Morgan said. "At first they were good friends. Then they had a falling out. It was a confusing statement in that respect."

Things only got more confusing when Tice mentioned his business dealings with "the Mexican mafia" concerning the selling of used cars. According to Morgan, he was indebted to the "mafia" and was behind on payments towards the $50,000 he had borrowed at one time.

Do you think that maybe Sheriff Morgan was watching the interview as well?


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/10/crimesider/entry5230162.shtml

[Pcola Hog]

What if I was indeed calling about computer problems, but it wasn't about printing documents. What if I was having trouble with a remote connection not working properly?

We are on the same page (read my post #179 above), along with other posters.

[swika]

We are on the same page (read my post #179 above), along with other posters.

I liked your use of code lingo. Makes sense to me.
Think he's made a few mistakes while trying to cover his tracks. Got to admit he's rather convincing for the most part. Also he keeps dragging in the ex, no matter how much she tries to distance herself.

Anyone know the name of the security company that may have maintained the alarm system?

[Dallasdon]

In the interview, Tice basically said the MM was brought in only cuz of Rick's Blog. I look forward to reading Rick's response to this.

It's been 24 hours... nothing yet...

[UnderDog]

It's been 24 hours... nothing yet...

Why should Rick respond? Cab Tice brought the Mexican Mafia into it! Tice told Sheriff Morgan about the MM ties with the illegal car sales. Sheriff Morgan also said ALL of the arrested perps have brought up the Mexican Mafia and one of them says they are a member. This is reported outside of Rick's blog. I'm not sure why you would be waiting for a response.

[daisy7]

Why should Rick respond? Cab Tice brought the Mexican Mafia into it! Tice told Sheriff Morgan about the MM ties with the illegal car sales. Sheriff Morgan also said ALL of the arrested perps have brought up the Mexican Mafia and one of them says they are a member. This is reported outside of Rick's blog. I'm not sure why you would be waiting for a response.

Tice basically said in his Channel 3 interview that the MM was only brought in and questioned about by ECSO cuz of Rick's blog. He referred to him as an "unknown blogger" and one whom only posted these blogs to increase blog hits and sales of his paper, IIRC. He also said that it was only after Rick's blogs that the ECSO kept trying to connect it to the MM. Though, he did say ECSO knew about his loan to the MM the night of the murders (another contradiction).

BTW - IN is a free paper available at numerous local places.

I'd be surprised if Rick didn't respond to this interview in some way. I believe he was on deadline today as his paper comes out tomorrow, but who knows.

I tried to go back and watch Tice's interview and it's not working on the WEAR site for me. Anyone else having this problem?

[sadyjade]

The more I read, and hear about Tice ... the more I have to wonder about. What's on my mind at the moment is why he seems to have placed a higher value (if you will) on Melanie Billings. More to the point ... he comes off like "why would I do anything to ever hurt Melanie" ... almost implying that those in the know, know he would never do anything to hurt her. Just something I'm picking up on ... just pressing my nose against the glass here, I'm not one who is in the know lol

[megamami]

The more I read, and hear about Tice ... the more I have to wonder about. What's on my mind at the moment is why he seems to have placed a higher value (if you will) on Melanie Billings. More to the point ... he comes off like "why would I do anything to ever hurt Melanie" ... almost implying that those in the know, know he would never do anything to hurt her. Just something I'm picking up on ... just pressing my nose against the glass here, I'm not one who is in the know lol

Yea, it's kind of like the statement he made in the Dateline interview (previously mentioned):
"That anybody would say that I had anything to do with the murder of Bud or Melanie is a liar," Tice said. "The world lost somebody wonderful in Melanie and Bud Billings did not deserve to be killed in his household."

It is still bugging me ... it adds to the inconsistencies.
That statement does not seem like he was thinking happy thoughts about Bud.

[megamami]

I tried to go back and watch Tice's interview and it's not working on the WEAR site for me. Anyone else having this problem?
The link is working for me: http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_137.shtml
BUT ....when I went back to this link there seems to be MORE interview than what I originally was able to watch. Here he does mention JR. asking for a van and Tice also addresses him reporting Billings to the IRS.

The video is now divided in parts: Parts 1, 2 and 3. He finishes off pretty hard against Rick's Blog and the Sheriff. Says he is unemployable because he has been named a person of interest. If you didn't see the 3 part segment, go back and rewatch it. You may have missed part like I did.

[fran]

What if I was indeed calling about computer problems, but it wasn't about printing documents. What if I was having trouble with a remote connection not working properly?

I totally believe this is a more likely scenario. He was probably the one who was supposed to disable the video. Didn't LE mention 'someone else' being involved (with regards to disabling the cameras)?

I wouldn't doubt if Tice hadn't forgotten all about that phone call that first night while he was being questioned by LE. In the morning when JR called him was probably when it dawned on him about that call and the ramifications if LE caught it, (which they would have).

A few things come to mind with regard to this Tice person............

A perp often times will tell LE about something BEFORE it is brought up. ie the phone call....................he KNEW that phone call was going to be discovered.

Tice told the interviewer he was very pleased LE had caught the alleged murders so swiftyly (or something like that)
For a guy who was LIKE A FATHER to this JR guy, he sure acts disconnected from him. KWIM? He's pleased they arrested his so called 'friend?

Tice said that Bud took everything he had as payment for what he owed him and he still owed him a LARGE sum of money. Bud wasn't happy with Tice's promise to pay back $2K a month so he went to LE with the 'bad checks.' Then Tice turns Bud into the IRS..................YET, Tice talks about Bud like he's his long lost bestest friend and practically a saint.

THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG with this picture. I'm not buyin' it.

Tice might be a good used car salesman, but, you know what people say about them.....or imply? His tactics might work to sell a lemon to some poor immigrant, but it doesn't work when it comes to murder. BS is BS.

Of course, this is just my opinion and I'm looking forward to seeing just HOW this guy fits into the big picture. It seems he threw JR under the bus with the Dateline interview, maybe JR will spill the beans. He's (JR) the key, imo.

JMHO
fran

PS....I hope you all don't think I've just butted in a month or more into this case. I was here following the breaking news part but then went on vacation, crashed my computer, moved, and had to wait for internet access for my new computer. If I've repeated anything, my apology......fran :)

[sadyjade]

I agree, and again,to me ... there is something in the way he is *portraying* himself that is speaking the loudest. Not sure what it is, but he thinks enough of himself to elude to some deeper connection to the Billings than most ... deffinately is trying to *appear* connected.

Yea, it's kind of like the statement he made in the Dateline interview (previously mentioned):
"That anybody would say that I had anything to do with the murder of Bud or Melanie is a liar," Tice said. "The world lost somebody wonderful in Melanie and Bud Billings did not deserve to be killed in his household."

It is still bugging me ... it adds to the inconsistencies.
That statement does not seem like he was thinking happy thoughts about Bud.

[4Kat]

The more I read, and hear about Tice ... the more I have to wonder about. What's on my mind at the moment is why he seems to have placed a higher value (if you will) on Melanie Billings. More to the point ... he comes off like "why would I do anything to ever hurt Melanie" ... almost implying that those in the know, know he would never do anything to hurt her. Just something I'm picking up on ... just pressing my nose against the glass here, I'm not one who is in the know lol

ITA! I believe that Miss Melanie died only because she was there. The beef was with Bud. From everything I've read and heard, she was a saint. Byrd may have been saintly when it came down to his kids, but when it came to business, well you know, you do what you gotta do.

I used to date a used car dealer and the joke within the group was that "the bulls*** just flowed naturally from him", :laugh:customers fell for it every time.

[redfish]

Jmo...BUT, He comes across, to me, as begging.....for what? Forgiveness? Understanding? Trust (don't worry, see I'll keep the secret) ? Another chance? Geez, All I can see is guilt... as some else put... for sumpin'.

[RiverPirate]

Jmo...BUT, He comes across, to me, as begging.....for what? Forgiveness? Understanding? Trust (don't worry, see I'll keep the secret) ? Another chance? Geez, All I can see is guilt... as some else put... for sumpin'.

Agreed. Just suppose for a minute Tice had nothing to do with the plan. I still think he at least may have in conversation told Jr. how much money Bud had in the house. Maybe he feels guilty for that, knowing what it lead to.

[TotallyObsessed]

The link is working for me: http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_137.shtml
BUT ....when I went back to this link there seems to be MORE interview than what I originally was able to watch. Here he does mention JR. asking for a van and Tice also addresses him reporting Billings to the IRS.

The video is now divided in parts: Parts 1, 2 and 3. He finishes off pretty hard against Rick's Blog and the Sheriff. Says he is unemployable because he has been named a person of interest. If you didn't see the 3 part segment, go back and rewatch it. You may have missed part like I did.

After listening to this interview MHO is.....this man is so full of BS his eyes are probably brown.
Waaaaaaaaay too much details that he is CYA with.

[CountryGirl]

Alright, here goes:

It is IMO, I think it is the intention of who ordered the hit on the Billings, for Cab Tice to have been set up to take the fall. This all goes much higher. I do not know if he had anything to do with this "plan" in the first place. My instincts are doubting this. I also have reason to believe this is not the first time someone in this town has been set up, IMO. There was a federal prosecutor who was busted for traveling out of state to have relations with an under age child. I also think this was set-up. I have excellent evidence leading me to this, so please don't think I would give my opinion out of haste or fluff.

I also have reason to believe the LPG JR has acted as "hitman" on other occasions. Billings was not first time he has killed, IMO

Are you talking about Assistant U.S. Attorney John D.R. Atchison who killed himself?

The one that was carrying presents for the (child he thought was a 5 year old girl), including a doll and hoop earrings, and also had sexual materials, including petroleum jelly?

I think you're mistaken if you think he was set up. Caught in a sting, yes. But he was serious about what he intended to do.

[RiverPirate]

Are you talking about Assistant U.S. Attorney John D.R. Atchison who killed himself?

The one that was carrying presents for the (child he thought was a 5 year old girl), including a doll and hoop earrings, and also had sexual materials, including petroleum jelly?

I think you're mistaken if you think he was set up. Caught in a sting, yes. But he was serious about what he intended to do.

I'm thinking NSC wouldn't have put that out there unless, as NSC mentioned, there was excellent evidence. We shall see. BTW, NSC and some other sleuthers have been right on with everything else they've been kind enough to share with us. Way ahead of everything that has come out in the press.

[who knew?]

Are you talking about Assistant U.S. Attorney John D.R. Atchison who killed himself?

The one that was carrying presents for the (child he thought was a 5 year old girl), including a doll and hoop earrings, and also had sexual materials, including petroleum jelly?

I think you're mistaken if you think he was set up. Caught in a sting, yes. But he was serious about what he intended to do.

I've done a lot of sleuthing on Atchison - mainly because common sense tells me Atchison would not have boarded an airplane with a Dora the Explorer doll and a jar of Vaseline. These things would have easily been picked up in Michigan. I feel he was set up because of his knowledge regarding the Sandshaker case (which he prosecuted), and the one individual who was involved but bought his way out of the case. I don't know if his name has been thrown in the arena yet, so I will just say initials - PM. Additionally, I believe the person who actively set Atchison up for PM is currently charged in the Billings murders - explaining one of the reasons why we keep bringing up Sandshaker. After investigating this, I have also come to believe an attorney in Michigan was involved.

Then there is the "suicide" - I can believe he wanted to kill himself because he knew what he was dealing with, not just the case itself, but the people involved. His family was in shock - he couldn't prove himself innocent. I believe his first suicide attempt was probably true. The second one - no. He was on suicide watch - he was in the shower - and hung himself with a sheet from the shower - while a guard was watching...............explain to me how he could have gotten to the shower with his bed sheet in the first place - and how he could manage to hang himself on a shower while a guard was observing - IMO, he was murdered in prison.

I hate to see this back in the news because I'm sure his wife and 3 children have been to hell and back. His wife is back to teaching science in high school - his 2 daughters are in college, and both were able to maintain high grades after going through this - I'm not sure about how his son is doing, but he is an extremely good skateboarder. I believe but am not positive, that he works in the skateboard, longboard sport. They are good people, and I wish we could clear Atchison's good name so they do not have that burden on top of his "suicide".

JMO

[Gene]

I've done a lot of sleuthing on Atchison - mainly because common sense tells me Atchison would not have boarded an airplane with a Dora the Explorer doll and a jar of Vaseline. These things would have easily been picked up in Michigan. I feel he was set up because of his knowledge regarding the Sandshaker case (which he prosecuted), and the one individual who was involved but bought his way out of the case. I don't know if his name has been thrown in the arena yet, so I will just say initials - PM. Additionally, I believe the person who actively set Atchison up for PM is currently charged in the Billings murders - explaining one of the reasons why we keep bringing up Sandshaker. After investigating this, I have also come to believe an attorney in Michigan was involved.

Then there is the "suicide" - I can believe he wanted to kill himself because he knew what he was dealing with, not just the case itself, but the people involved. His family was in shock - he couldn't prove himself innocent. I believe his first suicide attempt was probably true. The second one - no. He was on suicide watch - he was in the shower - and hung himself with a sheet from the shower - while a guard was watching...............explain to me how he could have gotten to the shower with his bed sheet in the first place - and how he could manage to hang himself on a shower while a guard was observing - IMO, he was murdered in prison.

I hate to see this back in the news because I'm sure his wife and 3 children have been to hell and back. His wife is back to teaching science in high school - his 2 daughters are in college, and both were able to maintain high grades after going through this - I'm not sure about how his son is doing, but he is an extremely good skateboarder. I believe but am not positive, that he works in the skateboard, longboard sport. They are good people, and I wish we could clear Atchison's good name so they do not have that burden on top of his "suicide".

JMO


This is VERY interesting, but I am confused about something. Does someone see a link to the Billings case? For example, do you believe that the same people who set up Atchison was involved in the Billings "hit"?

If there is no connection, perhaps it would be best to continue this discussion in PMs? If there may be a connection, please provide some links, I would be really interested in becoming more informed.

Please don't misunderstand, I want to focus on Billings and I do not know if I should spend the time becoming informed about Atchison or not.

[who knew?]

This is VERY interesting, but I am confused about something. Does someone see a link to the Billings case? For example, do you believe that the same people who set up Atchison was involved in the Billings "hit"?

If there is no connection, perhaps it would be best to continue this discussion in PMs? If there may be a connection, please provide some links, I would be really interested in becoming more informed.

Please don't misunderstand, I want to focus on Billings and I do not know if I should spend the time becoming informed about Atchison or not.

As I said, the person I believed to have been involved in setting Atchison up has been charged in the Billings case. Is Sandshaker directly involved? I'm not sure. At this point, I believe it is indirectly involved. You might read up on Sandshaker and see if you come up with my conclusions - check out the players - see what you think. I'd be interested in hearing your views once you investigate it and we can compare notes.

As for PM's - I rarely do the PM thing. I also don't post much anymore - I spend most of my free time "digging" for information - it takes a lot of time, but I enjoy it. My family OTOH resent it - for some reason, they think they need to eat! :waitasec:

[daisy7]

I've done a lot of sleuthing on Atchison - mainly because common sense tells me Atchison would not have boarded an airplane with a Dora the Explorer doll and a jar of Vaseline. These things would have easily been picked up in Michigan. I feel he was set up because of his knowledge regarding the Sandshaker case (which he prosecuted), and the one individual who was involved but bought his way out of the case. I don't know if his name has been thrown in the arena yet, so I will just say initials - PM. Additionally, I believe the person who actively set Atchison up for PM is currently charged in the Billings murders - explaining one of the reasons why we keep bringing up Sandshaker. After investigating this, I have also come to believe an attorney in Michigan was involved.

Then there is the "suicide" - I can believe he wanted to kill himself because he knew what he was dealing with, not just the case itself, but the people involved. His family was in shock - he couldn't prove himself innocent. I believe his first suicide attempt was probably true. The second one - no. He was on suicide watch - he was in the shower - and hung himself with a sheet from the shower - while a guard was watching...............explain to me how he could have gotten to the shower with his bed sheet in the first place - and how he could manage to hang himself on a shower while a guard was observing - IMO, he was murdered in prison.

I hate to see this back in the news because I'm sure his wife and 3 children have been to hell and back. His wife is back to teaching science in high school - his 2 daughters are in college, and both were able to maintain high grades after going through this - I'm not sure about how his son is doing, but he is an extremely good skateboarder. I believe but am not positive, that he works in the skateboard, longboard sport. They are good people, and I wish we could clear Atchison's good name so they do not have that burden on top of his "suicide".

JMO

Respectfully, BBM. Common sense to me is that I would bring everything I needed if I was traveling to a location I am not familiar with.

Assuming that this PM bought his/her role in the Sandshaker and assuming that Atchison was set-up and then murdered in prison, this would logically mean that the following agencies had a role in hiding/planting evidence as part of the cover up:

(in no particular order, and I'm probably missing some)

ECSO, PPD, DEA, ABT, SRSO, GBPD, Michigan LE, FBI, prison/jail in MI

It sure is quite a few - has anybody notified the national media? (sarcasm)

Of course, I still haven't seen the excellent evidence supporting these allegations.

Unless, there is excellent evidence that is provided to posters of how this is related to the Billings' murders, perhaps this discussion belongs on Atchison's thread here at WS?

Federal Prosecutor Arrested In Child Sex Sting - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

[who knew?]

Respectfully, BBM. Common sense to me is that I would bring everything I needed if I was traveling to a location I am not familiar with.

Assuming that this PM bought his/her role in the Sandshaker and assuming that Atchison was set-up and then murdered in prison, this would logically mean that the following agencies had a role in hiding/planting evidence as part of the cover up:

(in no particular order, and I'm probably missing some)

ECSO, PPD, DEA, ABT, SRSO, GBPD, Michigan LE, FBI, prison/jail in MI

It sure is quite a few - has anybody notified the national media? (sarcasm)

Of course, I still haven't seen the excellent evidence supporting these allegations.

Unless, there is excellent evidence that is provided to posters of how this is related to the Billings' murders, perhaps this discussion belongs on Atchison's thread here at WS?

Federal Prosecutor Arrested In Child Sex Sting - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53584)


I'm thinking the truth will come out - I believe in Sheriff Morgan - however there have been those in the past who have not been so honest. It's public record - look for it. As for your list of people who would have to be deceiving the public - you might do some reading on this subject. These kind of people infiltrate every level of government, from local LE to the highest level of government. I'm not naive enough to think that there are not people who would sell their souls for a dollar, for sex, or for power.

[RiverPirate]

Respectfully, BBM. Common sense to me is that I would bring everything I needed if I was traveling to a location I am not familiar with.

Assuming that this PM bought his/her role in the Sandshaker and assuming that Atchison was set-up and then murdered in prison, this would logically mean that the following agencies had a role in hiding/planting evidence as part of the cover up:

(in no particular order, and I'm probably missing some)

ECSO, PPD, DEA, ABT, SRSO, GBPD, Michigan LE, FBI, prison/jail in MI

It sure is quite a few - has anybody notified the national media? (sarcasm)

Of course, I still haven't seen the excellent evidence supporting these allegations.

Unless, there is excellent evidence that is provided to posters of how this is related to the Billings' murders, perhaps this discussion belongs on Atchison's thread here at WS?

Federal Prosecutor Arrested In Child Sex Sting - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53584)

Why would you need all of those agencies? All you would need is one person to break into Atchisons' home, plant the evidence on the computer and then have Michigan LE stick the right stuff in his luggage. Just theorizing here.

[daisy7]

-

I'm thinking the truth will come out - I believe in Sheriff Morgan - however there have been those in the past who have not been so honest. It's public record - look for it. As for your list of people who would have to be deceiving the public - you might do some reading on this subject. These kind of people infiltrate every level of government, from local LE to the highest level of government. I'm not naive enough to think that there are not people who would sell their souls for a dollar, for sex, or for power.



As I have posted numerous times previously, I believe there is corruption all over the place. But, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I have an open mind and have repeatedly asked for evidence to support these allegations and none has yet been posted on this forum. Again, posters who refuse to provide ANY evidence when asked, is a HUGE red flag to me.



MOO.

[daisy7]

Why would you need all of those agencies? All you would need is one person to break into Atchisons' home, plant the evidence on the computer and then have Michigan LE stick the right stuff in his luggage. Just theorizing here.

But, if you're talking about a cover up about Sandshaker, there are many more -- DEA, ECSO and ABT, just to name a few...

ETA: Another poster suggested that the Dora doll was planted, which would mean the MI LE and FBI and that he was killed in prison as part of the cover up, which would mean the prison/jail in MI

[Sanddollar14]

Who Knew, I also do not post very often but I am very curious about who was involved in the previous incident that is also involved with the Billings tragedy. I just read a couple of old newspaper articles about the older drug offenses, but did not see any names other than the prosecutor's name that i have seen mentioned here with Billings. Thanks for any information.

[RiverPirate]

But, if you're talking about a cover up about Sandsahker, there are many more -- DEA, ECSO and ABT, just to name a few...

ETA: Another poster suggested that the Dora doll was planted, which would mean the MI LE and FBI and that he was killed in prison as part of the cover up, which would mean the prison/jail in MI

OK, Add the FBI if you must. No big deal, happens every day.

Re The Shaker. There are several scenarios that could have kept this guy from being prosecuted. My opinion is that this particular person was only a customer and wasn't going to get in any trouble anyways. Which, if you recall was the case for the majority of those involved. They were mostly wrist slapped. The biggest penalty they paid was everybody in town knew they got busted. If you think special consideration wasn't given to certain people in that area during that time...Well, you're kidding yourself. Through favors, money or whatever it may have been, this guy walked and everybody in town knew he was the "big fish" that didn't fry.

[RiverPirate]

If this theory re Atchison is true,this could be a HUGE bargaining chip for one of the defendants in the Billings murder. Might even be a pass right out of the electric chair.

[who knew?]

If this theory re Atchison is true,this could be a HUGE bargaining chip for one of the defendants in the Billings murder. Might even be a pass right out of the electric chair.

You just read my mind!!! It's gonna get interesting.

[daisy7]

OK, Add the FBI if you must. No big deal, happens every day.

Re The Shaker. There are several scenarios that could have kept this guy from being prosecuted. My opinion is that this particular person was only a customer and wasn't going to get in any trouble anyways. Which, if you recall was the case for the majority of those involved. They were mostly wrist slapped. The biggest penalty they paid was everybody in town knew they got busted. If you think special consideration wasn't given to certain people in that area during that time...Well, you're kidding yourself. Through favors, money or whatever it may have been, this guy walked and everybody in town knew he was the "big fish" that didn't fry.

If this particular person wasn't gonna get in trouble any ways, why the big cover-up and the supposed framing of Atchison??

Absolutely, there was consideration given to certain people in the Sandshaker and I've never said otherwise. That's the GOB in action, here in P'Cola.

And, is he the "big fish" of the whole operation or was he just a customer as you previously stated. Or, maybe he's just a local "big fish" that wouldn't have gotten charged anyways, but it would be know that he was involved? And, if it's the latter, why on earth would he set up Atchison??

Maybe if I actually had some of the details posters are referring to, which I've repeatedly asked for and have never received, I would have a better idea what you're talking about.

[RiverPirate]

If this particular person wasn't gonna get in trouble any ways, why the big cover-up and the supposed framing of Atchison??

Absolutely, there was consideration given to certain people in the Sandshaker and I've never said otherwise. That's the GOB in action, here in P'Cola.

And, is he the "big fish" of the whole operation or was he just a customer as you previously stated. Or, maybe he's just a local "big fish" that wouldn't have gotten charged anyways, but it would be know that he was involved? And, if it's the latter, why on earth would he set up Atchison??

Maybe if I actually had some of the details posters are referring to, which I've repeatedly asked for and have never received, I would have a better idea what you're talking about.

An

OK...When I said "Big Fish" I meant a huge business figure in Pensacola.

Just a theory...At the end of the Shaker case, the talk was that a big name was yet to come. Never did. I'm thinking this guy got out of it through whatever means it was. Paid em, threatened em, promised em..whichever it was, he got out of it. This probably pissed Atchison off. He had a huge name and didn't get to pull the trigger on em.

So, now that Big Boy is out of it, why set Atchison up? I'm guessing Atchison wasn't happy and figured well, I'll get him later. Big Boy decides to take the "pre-emptive' strike. Let's frame the Prosecutor. Which leads us to one of the Billings' defendants to plant the stuff on the computer at Atchinsons' home...etc. etc

Why? Maybe Acthinson was listening to all this business over at
http://www.markturnerandfriends.com/

[daisy7]

OK...When I said "Big Fish" I meant a huge business figure in Pensacola.

Just a theory...At the end of the Shaker case, the talk was that a big name was yet to come. Never did. I'm thinking this guy got out of it through whatever means it was. Paid em, threatened em, promised em..whichever it was, he got out of it. This probably pissed Atchison off. He had a huge name and didn't get to pull the trigger on em.

So, now that Big Boy is out of it, why set Atchison up? I'm guessing Atchison wasn't happy and figured well, I'll get him later. Big Boy decides to take the "pre-emptive' strike. Let's frame the judge. Which leads us to one of the Billings' defendants to plant the stuff on the computer at Atchinsons' home...etc. etc

Why? Maybe Acthinson was listening to all this business over at
http://www.markturnerandfriends.com/

Thanks, River, for your post. You've given more info than any other poster. Which judge are you referring to that may have been framed?

And, how is Turner's case related to Billings except that they were both in the car business?

But, I know now who PM is!!:)

[who knew?]

OK...When I said "Big Fish" I meant a huge business figure in Pensacola.

Just a theory...At the end of the Shaker case, the talk was that a big name was yet to come. Never did. I'm thinking this guy got out of it through whatever means it was. Paid em, threatened em, promised em..whichever it was, he got out of it. This probably pissed Atchison off. He had a huge name and didn't get to pull the trigger on em.

So, now that Big Boy is out of it, why set Atchison up? I'm guessing Atchison wasn't happy and figured well, I'll get him later. Big Boy decides to take the "pre-emptive' strike. Let's frame the judge. Which leads us to one of the Billings' defendants to plant the stuff on the computer at Atchinsons' home...etc. etc

Why? Maybe Acthinson was listening to all this business over at
http://www.markturnerandfriends.com/

You are right on River!:blowkiss: But Atchison was a Federal Prosecutor - not a judge.

[RiverPirate]

Thanks, River, for your post. You've given more info than any other poster. Which judge are you referring to that may have been framed?
That was a mistake. I meant Federal Prosecutor Atchison I'll edit it. Also, all I've done is theorize how easy it would be or why it could happen. Without the real sleuthers pointing the way, I'd have never come up with this stuff.
And, how is Turner's case related to Billings except that they were both in the car business?

But, I know now who PM is!!:)

For one, according to one of the ricksblogs that if I'm not mistaken, you previously gave us up in the news link thread,(Thanks)
Turner thinks Jr. came to his house to kill him.

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7169

[who knew?]

http://markturnerandfriends.blogspot.com/

[RiverPirate]

You are right on River!:blowkiss: But Atchison was a Federal Prosecutor - not a judge.

Shhhhhhhhhhh.....I fixed it. Guess I was trying to peck these words out too fast.

[who knew?]

Shhhhhhhhhhh.....I fixed it. Guess I was trying to peck these words out too fast.

I'm about to wear my laptop out - some of the keys aren't working right, so I have to proof read. But - it reads pretty funny when I don't bother - and makes no sense!! Instead of sitting here in the recliner and relaxing with my laptop, I need to be sitting at the PC in my UNcomfortable chair!

[daisy7]

That was a mistake. I meant Federal Prosecutor Atchison I'll edit it. Also, all I've done is theorize how easy it would be or why it could happen. Without the real sleuthers pointing the way, I'd have never come up with this stuff.


For one, according to one of the ricksblogs that if I'm not mistaken, you previously gave us up in the news link thread,(Thanks)
Turner thinks Jr. came to his house to kill him.

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7169

Yes, I (believe) I originally gave the link, but I still don't see the link between PM and the Billings, even if Jr. did attack Mark as he alleges?

[who knew?]

Yes, I (believe) I originally gave the link, but I still don't see the link between PM and the Billings, even if Jr. did attack Mark as he alleges?

I gave this link above - read it: http://markturnerandfriends.blogspot.com/
It is not the same link you apparently are reading

Particularly - Thurs, Aug 13
If you still feel this is not connected, so be it.

[daisy7]

I gave this link above - read it: http://markturnerandfriends.blogspot.com/
It is not the same link you apparently are reading

Particularly - Thurs, Aug 13
If you still feel this is not connected, so be it.

I guess this is what you are referring to:

I met Bud Billings at Pete Moore Chevrolet. As a matter of fact, Laura Hamilton, who you see featured in my YouTube videos worked for Bud Billings when Bud Came over in the early 80's. When she married Rick Hamilton (Pete Moores right hand man) I was the best man in the wedding.

The fact that Turner knew Billings via PM as they are all in the car business comes as no surprise to me as P'Cola is a not that big.

Perhaps, I should have been more specific in my post to ask how PM is involved in the murder of the Billings? I look forward to a response.

[RiverPirate]

who knew? All I can say is Thanks for your hard work.

I just realized that 2 nights from now will mark the 40 years since the first night my family spent in our new house in Gulf Breeze. Aug. 17, 1969, which was also the night of Hurricane Camille. I've got a lot of friends there and my Mom still lives in that house. I called an old buddy just to see what his thoughts on Atchison were. This guy grew up with me and has been involved in the Sports Accoc. from grade school when he was a kid, to coaching as an adult. Atchison was the President if this Association. This friend told me he would never believe Mr. Atchison did what he was accused of. While I didn't go take a poll, this close friend told me absolute shock and disbelief was the way to describe the way most everybody there felt.

Several weeks ago, you guys told us this was going to rock this area. Not only what will come from the Billings' murder, but also the other wrong doings that will come to a light through the digging.

Seems to me this is getting kinda tricky for you sleuthers that really know what you're doing. I see a lot of new posters like myself that probably came here through the PNJ. It has been fascinating, especially in the beginning, watching you guys go at it. There are some sleuthers here that for their own reasons appear to have slowed down or stopped posting their progress. This saddens me in a way. But then again, having seen how passionate these people have done their work, I feel confident they're still at it and will help get to the bottom of this mess.

[who knew?]

who knew? All I can say is Thanks for your hard work.

I just realized that 2 nights from now will mark the 40 years since the first night my family spent in our new house in Gulf Breeze. Aug. 17, 1969, which was also the night of Hurricane Camille. I've got a lot of friends there and my Mom still lives in that house. I called an old buddy just to see what his thoughts on Atchison were. This guy grew up with me and has been involved in the Sports Accoc. from grade school when he was a kid, to coaching as an adult. Atchison was the President if this Association. This friend told me he would never believe Mr. Atchison did what he was accused of. While I didn't go take a poll, this close friend told me absolute shock and disbelief was the way to describe the way most everybody there felt.

Several weeks ago, you guys told us this was going to rock this area. Not only what will come from the Billings' murder, but also the other wrong doings that will come to a light through the digging.

Seems to me this is getting kinda tricky for you sleuthers that really know what you're doing. I see a lot of new posters like myself that probably came here through the PNJ. It has been fascinating, especially in the beginning, watching you guys go at it. There are some sleuthers here that for their own reasons appear to have slowed down or stopped posting their progress. This saddens me in a way. But then again, having seen how passionate these people have done their work, I feel confident they're still at it and will help get to the bottom of this mess.

We are all still at it - and VERY passionate about it. We all just want justice - whether that be in the Billings murders or clearing someone who was charged injustly. As you see, we can't post most of what we know although we wish we could. Thanks though for the compliments from all of us who are sleuthing!

[RiverPirate]

Perhaps, I should have been more specific in my post to ask how PM is involved in the murder of the Billings? I look forward to a response.

daisy..I don't think anybody is trying to tie PM to the Billings murder.
The theory would be that Jr. killed the Billings'
Guy at http://markturnerandfriends.blogspot.com/
is in an incredible dispute with PM.
Guy at http://markturnerandfriends.blogspot.com/
says Jr. is the one he caught trying to break in his house

[Sanddollar14]

So RiverPirate, the connection is based on LPG jr's behavior and whoever he is working for???????

[Lindadanette]

PM is a very big player in the auto scene in Pensacola. I did find an interesting bit of trivia in my search. . . It appears that PM, SS and several other dealers in FL. MS & AL have a "non-profit" org that, according to the internet, also does for profit business selling auto parts to the tune of millions of dollars. I could definitely be mistaken, but I recall MT talking about a "slush fund" and IIRC, he mentioned that Bud Billings and Cab Tice had both borrowed from it at one time or another.

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_2bzhm

http://sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=N08000003125&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=GULFCOASTCHEVYDEALERS&names_filing_type=

Somebody please let me know if I'm reading this wrong. . .

[daisy7]

Want to make sure I understand what some posters are theorizing about Atchison:

-PM is a local "big fish" that was involved in the Shaker deal. He was just a customer, that probably wouldn't be charged, but didn't want it known publicly that he was involved
-PM paid off the DEA and ECSO so he wasn't prosecuted or even charged
-Atchison was upset this local "big fish" had gotten off and was determined to get PM later on something else
-PM knew Atchison was after him, so he set up this whole case against him as a preemptive strike
-PM had someone (LPG?) replace Atchison's home computer with one that had actually been used to solicit the fake child for sexual relations in MI
-PM devised a way to get Atchison on a plane to MI
-PM had someone plant the Dora doll and vaseline jelly in Atchison's suitcase before he left or paid off MI LE and the FBI to plant this evidence
-PM paid off someone in the MI jail to kill Atchison
-LPG may be the same one that attacked Turner, who has a beef with PM

Do I have it correct what some posters are thinking?

:beamup:

[RiverPirate]

Want to make sure I understand what some posters are theorizing about Atchison:

-PM is a local "big fish" that was involved in the Shaker deal. He was just a customer, that probably wouldn't be charged, but didn't want it known publicly that he was involved
-PM paid off the DEA and ECSO so he wasn't prosecuted or even charged
-Atchison was upset this local "big fish" had gotten off and was determined to get PM later on something else
-PM knew Atchison was after him, so he set up this whole case against him as a preemptive strike
-PM had someone (LPG?) replace Atchison's home computer with one that had actually been used to solicit the fake child for sexual relations in MI
-PM devised a way to get Atchison on a plane to MI
-PM had someone plant the Dora doll and vaseline jelly in Atchison's suitcase before he left or paid off MI LE and the FBI to plant this evidence
-PM paid off someone in the MI jail to kill Atchison
-LPG may be the same one that attacked Turner, who has a beef with PM

Do I have it correct what some posters are thinking?

:beamup:

Ya know, I made the effort to try and help understand how some info from some pretty good sleuthers could have played out. I'm no sure why this seems so far fetched to you. It's really not that complicated of a plan.

Time to beam up now before Scottie screws up the coordinates again.

[daisy7]

Ya know, I made the effort to try and help understand how some info from some pretty good sleuthers could have played out. I'm no sure why this seems so far fetched to you. It's really not that complicated of a plan.

Time to beam up now before Scottie screws up the coordinates again.

:) I'm glad you have a sense of humor!:blowkiss:

If this is what in fact happened, it wasn't a simple plan. I'm still waiting on some evidence to back up these allegations? :waitasec:

[Lindadanette]

Ya know, I made the effort to try and help understand how some info from some pretty good sleuthers could have played out. I'm no sure why this seems so far fetched to you. It's really not that complicated of a plan.

Time to beam up now before Scottie screws up the coordinates again.


Though I'm not sure I fit the description of a "good sleuther", I do have to respond to the basic flaw I see in this plan. . .

While may roads may indeed lead to PM, I don't believe that there's any evidence that he set Atchison up. There are, however, some folks who lost big bucks because of Atchison's prosecution of the Sandshaker case. Whether they have long arms reaching - well, who knows?

Now I have heard that Atchison was key in getting another official his current job. . .

[CountryGirl]

Want to make sure I understand what some posters are theorizing about Atchison:

-PM is a local "big fish" that was involved in the Shaker deal. He was just a customer, that probably wouldn't be charged, but didn't want it known publicly that he was involved
-PM paid off the DEA and ECSO so he wasn't prosecuted or even charged
-Atchison was upset this local "big fish" had gotten off and was determined to get PM later on something else
-PM knew Atchison was after him, so he set up this whole case against him as a preemptive strike
-PM had someone (LPG?) replace Atchison's home computer with one that had actually been used to solicit the fake child for sexual relations in MI
-PM devised a way to get Atchison on a plane to MI
-PM had someone plant the Dora doll and vaseline jelly in Atchison's suitcase before he left or paid off MI LE and the FBI to plant this evidence
-PM paid off someone in the MI jail to kill Atchison
-LPG may be the same one that attacked Turner, who has a beef with PM

Do I have it correct what some posters are thinking?

:beamup:

Simply replacing someone's computer wouldn't work. The tools FLE use are very sophisticated. I have a very good friend who is a Federal LE specializing in crimes against children. We discussed this last night at dinner.

[redfish]

IMO What, more than anything, this is illustrating.... to me....how many of the players are linked by suspicious deeds..... how very closely they all are connected to known crimes .... THAT indicates to me that there very well can be a "puppetmaster"..... things seem to be pointing that way TO ME. :eek:

Does this appear at all to be true to you Daisy?

[RiverPirate]

Simply replacing someone's computer wouldn't work. The tools FLE use are very sophisticated. I have a very good friend who is a Federal LE specializing in crimes against children. We discussed this last night at dinner.

Bolded part is why replacing the computer wouldn't be the best option. Enter the home, plant the porn on the CPU. You could even go to the extent of planting a Trojan Horse and accessing the computer remotely. From there you could access facebook, IM accounts. etc etc.

[CountryGirl]

Bolded part is why replacing the computer wouldn't be the best option. Enter the home, plant the porn on the CPU. You could even go to the extent of planting a Trojan Horse and accessing the computer remotely. From there you could access facebook, IM accounts. etc etc.

Yes, except FLE tools allow them to investigate if this has been done. Remember, they have to know all this because defense attorneys claim people are framed; someone else accessed their computers, etc all the time. Believe me, the LE tools cover all this and more.

[RiverPirate]

Yes, except FLE tools allow them to investigate if this has been done. Remember, they have to know all this because defense attorneys claim people are framed; someone else accessed their computers, etc all the time. Believe me, the LE tools cover all this and more.

I'll go along with that. But, how would they be able to tell if the material had just been planted on the computer?

[CountryGirl]

I'll go along with that. But, how would they be able to tell if the material had just been planted on the computer?

In this particular case, it wasn't one incident. There were several conversations over time. All documented and captured with forensic tools as it happened. Not something you can plant on someone's computer--even if done remotely--that would be known. Everything leaves a trail--even anonymizers.

My friend left this morning for Dallas for this conference. https://www.cacconference.org/

The program .pdf is on their page. Interesting reading. Joseph Duncan's case is one that will be presented.

[RiverPirate]

In this particular case, it wasn't one incident. There were several conversations over time. All documented and captured with forensic tools as it happened. Not something you can plant on someone's computer--even if done remotely--that would be known. Everything leaves a trail--even anonymizers.

My friend left this morning for Dallas for this conference. https://www.cacconference.org/

The program .pdf is on their page. Interesting reading. Joseph Duncan's case is one that will be presented.

I was referring to the images. The conversations could have come from anywhere that someone had access to his myspace. Unless of course you have the knowledge that they know the conversations came from his home CPU.

[CountryGirl]

I was referring to the images. The conversations could have come from anywhere that someone had access to his myspace. Unless of course you have the knowledge that they know the conversations came from his home CPU.

Yes, they would know exactly where the conversations come from. Images as well.

[RiverPirate]

Yes, they would know exactly where the conversations come from. Images as well.

I understand that.
Did they know the conversations came from his computer?