Girl, 10, OD's on pain meds, Grandma charged.

[Oblio]

http://www.triplicate.com/20090805106625/News/Local-News/Manslaughter-charge-filed

And then the initial article about the girl's death:
http://www.triplicate.com/20090804106607/News/Local-News/Girl-10-dies-of-overdose


Rayanna’s mother, Kristina Nail, gave an account of what happened. She said she needed potatoes for dinner, so she sent Rayanna over to grab them from her grandmother’s residence just a couple trailers away.
When Rayanna returned with the potatoes she said, “Grandma is all soma’d out again and there are pills everywhere,” Kristina Nail said.

...


Oh, by the way, mother (who knowing her daughter's and mother's habits sent her over unattended and unexpected by grandma, then didn't act when child tells her there are pills all over the place) blames Grandma ENTIRELY for the child's death.

I don't get. I feel that grandma deserves a slap on the wrist. She was prescribed very, very powerful pain meds after a surgery. She was not in charge of watching the child, she was alone, at home. No reason to expect her granddaughter to show up unattended. The mother sent her there, then didn't act or get alarmed after the child mentioned the pills, then showed the classic rash that goes along with narcotic overdose. Mother has not been charged with anything.

[VespaElf]

WTF was going on in that house that had a 10 year old overdosing TWICE and faking a THIRD o/d WITHIN NINE MONTHS???? Mom needs to wake up.
If the child lived with Granma I could see charging her BUT SHE DIDNT! Granma should NOT be in jail,imo,Mom should!

[STEADFAST]

I think this is an injustice so far. The grandma did not expect the child to come over, so the pills that she had been prescribed were on the coffee table. Had she known this child was coming over, she probably would have locked up the pills. I think the mom's judgment is clouded by grief and her need to deny her responsibility in any of this for sending her daughter over unannounced to the house when she knew the child had a history of stealing pills and taking them.

And, also, this child was 10 not 4. She knew she was stealing her grandma's medicine, and she had to have known it was wrong. She shouldn't have been allowed in her grandma's house if she couldn't keep her hands off the medicine.

[Boyz_Mum]

If Grandma has a dependency on meds and may not be "with it" enough to lock up her meds, I don't think the girl should have been sent there to pick up potatoes. Mom could have run over there herself? If Grandma leaves her meds lying around and the little girl had already OD'ed, that would be the last place I'd send her. JMO.

Rest in peace Rayanna.

[VespaElf]

Exactly Boys Mum! Its like sending an alcoholic into a liquor store!

[SleuthyMama]

wtf was going on in that house that had a 10 year old overdosing twice and faking a third o/d within nine months???? Mom needs to wake up.if the child lived with granma i could see charging her but she didnt! Granma should not be in jail,imo,mom should!

bbm

thank you!!

[MeoW333]

WTF was going on in that house that had a 10 year old overdosing TWICE and faking a THIRD o/d WITHIN NINE MONTHS???? Mom needs to wake up.
If the child lived with Granma I could see charging her BUT SHE DIDNT! Granma should NOT be in jail,imo,Mom should!

I agree! The child obviously should have been in an inpatient psychiatric setting for help. It's obvious she was a danger to herself and her mother couldn't control that!
I don't think they should be charging the grandmother. The mother knew her daughter's overdose problem (3 times at the age of 10!!??) and sent her over to the grandmother's knowing that the grandmother had pills and would be out of it.
I think it's odd for a 10year old to use the term "grandma is all soma'd out again"
The mother should be charged, she's the one who sent the child over there. It's no secret in that family that the grandmother had pills.
The mother should have had her daughter in an inpatient psychiatric setting, if she couldn't keep her away from harming herself. That's serious.

[Shamrock]

I agree with others who say the mother was negligent. Who in their right mind would send her child over there, knowing there were pills, if this child had a history of taking them and overdosing?? This is insanity to me!! And a TEN-year-old, not only taking the pills, but overdosing????? That child must have been highly troubled.

[Kat]

I'm going to have to think on this one.

But Good Lord. I'm shaking my head.

I said in another case that once you start peeling the onion, it usually just gets uglier and uglier.

Although, there are a few facts presented in this case within the articles posted (thank you for posting them) I have the feeling it's just the tip of the iceberg.

It's giving me a headache. The headache started when it was reported that a 10 yr old who is now deceased used the phrase "G-ma is all soma'ed out". I'm speechless.

[SleuthyMama]

Yes! The Grandma is all soma'd out again quote is so disturbing!

[Oblio]

I'm in a small community so I don't think anybody local is going to write the editor on this one, but if you all do, it might put enough heat on the authorities to charge the mother. She said enough to the paper to warrant an arrest, IMO.

We had another local case where a 19 yr old girl died after she was ejected from a car she was riding in, the driver was drunk. He got a very fair sentence, six years I think, but her family has been unrelenting in their letters to the editor. Some how they missed the fact that their daughter, an adult, made the decision to ride in a vehicle unrestrained with a drunk driver. She wasn't coerced, held against will, etc. There was no malice on his part, and much of his charge had to do with previous convictions, meaning he was held to a much tighter standard of what is intoxicated. As I've heard around town, his BAL wasn't very high at all and the accident had more to do with being young and stupid. Everyone else in the car just had minor to moderate injuries, of course, they all wore seat belts. They seem to want him to rot in hell for his part, though. (we're talking a kid, he was only 23 or 24 at the time)

[GannyP]

I also feel that the mother is more responsible than the G-ma. Did she call her Mom and say "I'm sending your grandaughter over to borrow a couple of potatoes, OK?" Had she done that she would have known if her mother was "with-it" enough to give the girl the potatoes and send her safely on her way. So Mom holds more blame than Grandma. IMOO

[Boyz_Mum]

As far as the situation with the girl having a previous OD history, I do think it's hard to secure inpatient psych care for kids (or anyone) these days. BUT, in this case also, the mother had the knowledge of her young daughter's "condition" and still sent her to Grandma's alone. If the little girl knows when Grandma is "soma-d out", it's obvious she has knowledge of Grandma's drug situation. If grandma has been "soma-d out" before and this little girl knew this then the mom had to know it also. If Grandma wants to take her meds in the confines of her own home, I don't see how she can be charged. I think the mom should take responsibility for her action of sending Rayanna over to Grandma's?

My kids wouldn't know a "soma coma" from death- they'd have run home and begged me to call 911.

[impatientredhead]

I'm going to have to think on this one.

But Good Lord. I'm shaking my head.

I said in another case that once you start peeling the onion, it usually just gets uglier and uglier.

Although, there are a few facts presented in this case within the articles posted (thank you for posting them) I have the feeling it's just the tip of the iceberg.

It's giving me a headache. The headache started when it was reported that a 10 yr old who is now deceased used the phrase "G-ma is all soma'ed out". I'm speechless.

G-ma is all soma'ed out is a child that has grown up with PRIMARY caregivers who have prescription drugs as a major focus in their lives. Either mom shares the same habits but keeps her meds locked up or G-ma was the primary caregiver to this child for sometime.

Growing up with a drug addict it occurs to me that:

a. drugs are common enough that all parties involved know and use the slang versions of drugs

b. child is clearly comfortable speaking in that manner around the adults in her life. I was completely aware of everything my mother was doing but she would scold me if I was using the terminology.

c. child is aware and familiar enough with the drugs to know which ones the "good" ones are... I knew which pills were which even though they were mixed together in one bottle (kept in the purse, can't carry 12 different pill bottles around) because when F'ed up enough to not want to get up she would send me to bring her a (insert pill of choice)

If they cannot prove that G-ma gave this child meds I cannot see any type of legal responsibility falling on her shoulders. If mom is clean then the granddaughter spent a lot of time taking care of drugged out grandma, but I am guessing this is multi-generational. Mom's judgement coincides with a pill popper too. moo

ETA- also a ten year old on oxycontin is not going to appear to have a poison oak, I find that part of the story fishy, among other parts like Gma was conveniently passed out and remembers nothing (probably true) but mom has the whole story including card games and providing nursing care (mom of the year) and mom went to the trailer and cleaned up all the pills before realizing her daughter had ODed and died? Very convenient.....

[yanknrebel]

http://www.triplicate.com/20090805106625/News/Local-News/Manslaughter-charge-filed

And then the initial article about the girl's death:
http://www.triplicate.com/20090804106607/News/Local-News/Girl-10-dies-of-overdose


Oh, by the way, mother (who knowing her daughter's and mother's habits sent her over unattended and unexpected by grandma, then didn't act when child tells her there are pills all over the place) blames Grandma ENTIRELY for the child's death.

I don't get. I feel that grandma deserves a slap on the wrist. She was prescribed very, very powerful pain meds after a surgery. She was not in charge of watching the child, she was alone, at home. No reason to expect her granddaughter to show up unattended. The mother sent her there, then didn't act or get alarmed after the child mentioned the pills, then showed the classic rash that goes along with narcotic overdose. Mother has not been charged with anything.

If the mother knew that this child had od' not once but twice or even threee times before and then the daughter comes home and mentions that grandma is all soma'd out, MY first response would have been to grill that child to see if she took any of those pills. DId that mother do that? Or just assume that this child, who had a history of doing so, had walked away and not touched them. I bleieve the mother was neglectful in this situation, NOT the grandma.The grandma was in her own home. Not like she came to the daughter and granddaughter;s home and got soma's out and left the pills out all over. THEN in that case scenario, grandma would be at fault. I would also have to find out what is going on in this family to make a 10 year old take this many pills and od that many times?

[STEADFAST]

Here's something really hinky about this case:
She [the mother] said she went to Lane’s [the grandma's] home later Thursday evening [the night Rayanna died] after Rayanna had come home.
“When I went up there she had pills everywhere, all over the floor and she was completely out of it,” Kristina Nail said.
At that point, she said she cleaned the pills up and locked them away, “but it was already too late.”
(from the original article link)

So the info that the pills were scattered everywhere isn't corroborated by anyone except the mother. Apparently when LE got there, the pills must have been locked up. So, do they really know that the oxycontin was obtained at the grandma's house and not right there in the mom's house??

[Kat]

G-ma is all soma'ed out is a child that has grown up with PRIMARY caregivers who have prescription drugs as a major focus in their lives. Either mom shares the same habits but keeps her meds locked up or G-ma was the primary caregiver to this child for sometime.

Growing up with a drug addict it occurs to me that:

a. drugs are common enough that all parties involved know and use the slang versions of drugs

b. child is clearly comfortable speaking in that manner around the adults in her life. I was completely aware of everything my mother was doing but she would scold me if I was using the terminology.

c. child is aware and familiar enough with the drugs to know which ones the "good" ones are... I knew which pills were which even though they were mixed together in one bottle (kept in the purse, can't carry 12 different pill bottles around) because when F'ed up enough to not want to get up she would send me to bring her a (insert pill of choice)

If they cannot prove that G-ma gave this child meds I cannot see any type of legal responsibility falling on her shoulders. If mom is clean then the granddaughter spent a lot of time taking care of drugged out grandma, but I am guessing this is multi-generational. Mom's judgement coincides with a pill popper too. moo

ETA- also a ten year old on oxycontin is not going to appear to have a poison oak, I find that part of the story fishy, among other parts like Gma was conveniently passed out and remembers nothing (probably true) but mom has the whole story including card games and providing nursing care (mom of the year) and mom went to the trailer and cleaned up all the pills before realizing her daughter had ODed and died? Very convenient.....

Thank you ImpatientRH, you illustrated a little more of the iceberg. Still gives me a headache to think of what kind of environment this child lived in prior to her death.

[Marina2]

I agree! The child obviously should have been in an inpatient psychiatric setting for help. It's obvious she was a danger to herself and her mother couldn't control that!
I don't think they should be charging the grandmother. The mother knew her daughter's overdose problem (3 times at the age of 10!!??) and sent her over to the grandmother's knowing that the grandmother had pills and would be out of it.
I think it's odd for a 10year old to use the term "grandma is all soma'd out again"
The mother should be charged, she's the one who sent the child over there. It's no secret in that family that the grandmother had pills.
The mother should have had her daughter in an inpatient psychiatric setting, if she couldn't keep her away from harming herself. That's serious.

Bolded by me.
It is odd. That little girl using a drug-culture lingo speaks volumes about the environment she lives in. A history of drug OD at 10 years old is a result of that.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if those weren't the daughter's words but the mother's.

[impatientredhead]

Bolded by me.
It is odd. That little girl using a drug-culture lingo speaks volumes about the environment she lives in. A history of drug OD at 10 years old is a result of that.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if those weren't the daughter's words but the mother's.

The article said CPS had been involved, and she was in the special education department at school where they described her as "a deeply troubled girl".

There is more to this story if they choose to investigate.

Another example of a case that if tried by a PD Gma will probably end up taking a deal and if she had money for a good defense attorney would probably be cleared. Daughter is throwing her right under the bus and Gma may feel guilty and just let it roll over her, but if not she needs to be throwing some responsibility mom's way. How bout mom knew there were pills at Gma's and shouldn't be sending her daughter unsupervised, or at a minimum shouldn't have called Gma so the child was supervised. How bout daughter mentioned pills everywhere, did mom check her for pills? Same day daughter becomes sick and mom puts her to bed?

"I am not this child's guardian, she does not live with me, I did not invite her on this occassion, I was not informed she was coming, I was not aware she was in my home, it was her mother that she mentioned her access to pills, it was her mother that she sought out when she became ill, it was her mother who had the responsibility and opportunity to handle this differently."

[capoly]

Wow, imo, that mother wanted that child dead and some one better keep an eye on the other child still with her until he's an adult...... if not longer.

[Marina2]

The article said CPS had been involved, and she was in the special education department at school where they described her as "a deeply troubled girl".

There is more to this story if they choose to investigate.

Another example of a case that if tried by a PD Gma will probably end up taking a deal and if she had money for a good defense attorney would probably be cleared. Daughter is throwing her right under the bus and Gma may feel guilty and just let it roll over her, but if not she needs to be throwing some responsibility mom's way. How bout mom knew there were pills at Gma's and shouldn't be sending her daughter unsupervised, or at a minimum shouldn't have called Gma so the child was supervised. How bout daughter mentioned pills everywhere, did mom check her for pills? Same day daughter becomes sick and mom puts her to bed?

"I am not this child's guardian, she does not live with me, I did not invite her on this occassion, I was not informed she was coming, I was not aware she was in my home, it was her mother that she mentioned her access to pills, it was her mother that she sought out when she became ill, it was her mother who had the responsibility and opportunity to handle this differently."

I'm highly suspicious of the mother. It's not uncommon for legimate users of Oxycontin to have one or more family members addicted to the medication. They wait until the owner of the med is "out of it" so to speak, and raid their pills. When they wake up, they know nothing of what went on. If pills come up short, they don't have the recall to accuse anyone of theft.

My scenario has the daughter getting into her mother's stash of pills that were stolen from g-ma. Mom goes over to g-mas house to verify that she's knocked out (not to clean), maybe to spread pills around but, she can't get into the safe. Instead she claims that she cleaned them up and put them back into the safe. She invents the potato, pills everywhere story to frame the g-ma. G-ma can't defend herself...she was out cold and knows nothing.

[Boyz_Mum]

The only "bright spot" in this story is that Grandma (if drug dependent) could kick the habit while in jail?

[impatientredhead]

The only "bright spot" in this story is that Grandma (if drug dependent) could kick the habit while in jail?

She may detox, but staying clean is unlikely.

She isn't going to leave with new coping skills unless she really seeks them out.

I was thinking about my drug addict mother and her pills, addictions are ritualistic and pills to an addict are very very very valuable. I cannot think of ONE time my mother tossed pills around the house, couldn't keep track of them, etc....

She hid them around the house "for when she ran out", or at least she thought she did, I never actually saw proof of that occuring, the only portion of that that was visible was the dismantling the house looking for the pills she knew she hid somewhere.

I am not buying this passed out in a pile of pills.
This isn't alcohol where you pass out with the bottle in your hand.
Or herion where you wake up with needle in your arm.

This is take the pills, wash them down, have enough time for them to get into your system, pass out.

Spread around the house sounds like someone who wants to make someone else sound reckless and negligent.

[capoly]

Maybe someone with legal experience will explain this to me. How can the GM be arrested and held on 100,000$ bail based on "Assistant Coroner Mike Henderson said preliminary results from the autopsy hint at an overdose." and “There were some very non-specific things that were consistent with her having an overdose,” he said. Plus the charges seemed to be based on an apparent overdose of oxycontin yet neither the child or her mother mentioned oxycontin only spoke of Soma.

Sounds like a 3rd world arrest.

[impatientredhead]

Maybe someone with legal experience will explain this to me. How can the GM be arrested and held on 100,000$ bail based on "Assistant Coroner Mike Henderson said preliminary results from the autopsy hint at an overdose." and “There were some very non-specific things that were consistent with her having an overdose,” he said. Plus the charges seemed to be based on an apparent overdose of oxycontin yet neither the child or her mother mentioned oxycontin only spoke of Soma.

Sounds like a 3rd world arrest.

You've got me.
I am baffled by it.

I don't know how you can be held accountable for something that occurs to a child not in your care and not knowingly in your home. My gut reaction is these charges will never stick, but then I factor in that she appears to be broke and I can see her doing time on a deal.

The adult daughter must have some really intense feelings about her mother.

[Boyz_Mum]

I know a lot of people who do leave their meds on the coffee table or bedside table, for the ease in getting their meds. I've even seen a person shake and drop their meds while trying to take them. I hate to see these people alone and trying to care for themselves, but it's not uncommon. In this case, it sounds like grandma may have a drug dependency. In the privacy of her home, I feel like she should be able to drug her butt out to any extent she wishes. Mom of Rayanna looks negligent in my opinion because she sent a child to Grandma's to fetch potatoes. Mom of Rayanna looks twice as negligent if Grandma was known to be knocked out on Soma?

I apologize for being angry and hopeful for grandma at the same time. I don't think grandma bears the full responsibility in this case.

[PMLsmom]

If Gma was in HER own house, with HER own meds, then how can she be to blame??? I have MY meds in MY house, and MY son knows better than to touch them. Obviously this girl had a problem with drugs - HER mother's problem...

[impatientredhead]

I know a lot of people who do leave their meds on the coffee table or bedside table, for the ease in getting their meds. I've even seen a person shake and drop their meds while trying to take them. I hate to see these people alone and trying to care for themselves, but it's not uncommon. In this case, it sounds like grandma may have a drug dependency. In the privacy of her home, I feel like she should be able to drug her butt out to any extent she wishes. Mom of Rayanna looks negligent in my opinion because she sent a child to Grandma's to fetch potatoes. Mom of Rayanna looks twice as negligent if Grandma was known to be knocked out on Soma?

I apologize for being angry and hopeful for grandma at the same time. I don't think grandma bears the full responsibility in this case.

Are these drug addicted people taking narcotics? Or legit meds taken by people who need them? I understand that people leave pills on their tables and nightstands, I do as well. But the addicts I have been around pay more attention to their narcotics than their children.

And the only people I have EVER seen let their children roam about freely with adults that are popping pills to that degree are other drug addicts.

[Boyz_Mum]

Are these drug addicted people taking narcotics? Or legit meds taken by people who need them? I understand that people leave pills on their tables and nightstands, I do as well. But the addicts I have been around pay more attention to their narcotics than their children.

And the only people I have EVER seen let their children roam about freely with adults that are popping pills to that degree are other drug addicts.

Legit meds. I've been in some homes where a cancer patient doesn't have the strength to flush their own toilet and have their meds sitting by them for the ease of taking them.

[STEADFAST]

Maybe someone with legal experience will explain this to me. How can the GM be arrested and held on 100,000$ bail based on "Assistant Coroner Mike Henderson said preliminary results from the autopsy hint at an overdose." and “There were some very non-specific things that were consistent with her having an overdose,” he said. Plus the charges seemed to be based on an apparent overdose of oxycontin yet neither the child or her mother mentioned oxycontin only spoke of Soma.

Sounds like a 3rd world arrest.

Plus, the whole story of pills being all around the grandma's house comes from the mother, who says she went over there later that night and locked them up. So how does LE just take her word for it that the pills her daughter OD'd on came from Grandma's house? Did she even really send her daughter over there for potatoes? Were the pills really spread all over that day or were they locked up all along? Did the drugs the girl OD'd on maybe come from her own house?

[PMLsmom]

And daughter knew how to get them??? And went and got them??? And gdaughter found them, at home???

[Oblio]

In today's paper, Gma pleads not guilty, is released until next court date. Mom parades daughter's urn around court room and pleads to the court not to release her mother. Also a letter to the editor, which you will be able to read tomorrow. (along with today's article, which also mentions that the two times she did OD, she was in grandma's care)

My coworker said something about these people being the people she bought her trailer from, and that when she went to get it or pay for it, one had white powder all around her nose, and claimed to have just taken her pills. I wasn't listening close enough to discern if she was talking about mom or grandma.

[PMLsmom]

Even if the gmother WAS an addict - Again, she was in HER house, with HER drugs. Daughter had to obviously know (if so)...HER own daughter had OD'd twice (supposedly from gma's stash). I would hope that she was smart enough to keep HER daughter away from gma...I know, in this day and age - it appears to be too much to ask that MOMs take real care of their kids...

[Oblio]

Oh, I totally agree, I think if anything, Gma should get a slap on the wrist. It's mom who is clearly guilty of neglect in this case. (atleast going by what has been published in the paper, and the quotes of what she has said.)

[4Kat]

Personally, I think the younger child should be checked out too.

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

you know, if i chose to SWIM in my medicine, didn't believe in locking it up, laid it al on the table with step by step instructions on how to take it and how much to make me "feel all soma'd out" I still don't see how I would be to blame, the child does NOT live with me! obviously she went in without knocking and waiting on an answer. I'm with most people here, mom's up to something!

[itsreenw]

Ok, I have to rant here... First of all, the mother is pouring it on too thick with all this quality time she claims to have spent with the daughter. Chasing lizards, picking berries, playing cards, laying down, holding hands. Blah blah blah.

Forgive me if I'm wrong because Im not a mom or a nurse, but it seems that if the child took the pills at gma's, by the time her and mom were into their game of Skip Bo. she would've been showing signs of an OD. She would have been lethargic, slurred speech.. something. She would've been soma'd out like gma!!

And don't you give kids Benadryl for rashes, not Tylenol? Do you take Tylenol when you get poison oak? I guess any pill will do, huh? Geez

I wonder if the momma sent the daughter down there to get some pills for her and the girl took some herself. Or maybe mom gave the girl a pill to put her to sleep??? My hinky meter is on red alert.

I'd be curious to know if the poor lil girl really had potatoes in her stomach when they did the autopsy. I don't think the girl went there for potatoes if she went there at all. I think the mom is advocating way too much to keep g-ma in jail. Seems like she wants to make sure the focus stays on g-ma and doesn't come her way.

And..I've never played Skip Bo. Is that something a 10 yr old special needs child would grasp?

[impatientredhead]

Ok, I have to rant here... First of all, the mother is pouring it on too thick with all this quality time she claims to have spent with the daughter. Chasing lizards, picking berries, playing cards, laying down, holding hands. Blah blah blah.

Forgive me if I'm wrong because Im not a mom or a nurse, but it seems that if the child took the pills at gma's, by the time her and mom were into their game of Skip Bo. she would've been showing signs of an OD. She would have been lethargic, slurred speech.. something. She would've been soma'd out like gma!!

And don't you give kids Benadryl for rashes, not Tylenol? Do you take Tylenol when you get poison oak? I guess any pill will do, huh? Geez

I wonder if the momma sent the daughter down there to get some pills for her and the girl took some herself. Or maybe mom gave the girl a pill to put her to sleep??? My hinky meter is on red alert.

I'd be curious to know if the poor lil girl really had potatoes in her stomach when they did the autopsy. I don't think the girl went there for potatoes if she went there at all. I think the mom is advocating way too much to keep g-ma in jail. Seems like she wants to make sure the focus stays on g-ma and doesn't come her way.

And..I've never played Skip Bo. Is that something a 10 yr old special needs child would grasp?

I have never taken oxycontin but I would imagine anyone would be able to tell a child (or an adult that had never taken it) was deeply impaired by one.

I have taken Vicodin which is much milder than oxycontin and been sick as a dog from it. Taken Soma when I put my back out, out of it, deep sleep.

Not a mother, but I would also assume that any mother on this board would notice if their child was under the influence of narcotics. Especially if your child had ODed twice before.

My question is whether this girl was suicidal or how long has she been exposed to drugs (gestation?). For a child that young to take meds to the point of OD repeatedly, which would not be a fun experience, having your stomach pumped, the sore throat, the naseua. Not something most ten year olds would seek out and repeat and repeat.

Attention seeking? Early addict? Manchausen by proxy? Bio mom sure seems to loving the limelight and attention this is bringing her.....

[Baxter]

I don't think this girl was a special needs child. In one of the articles her mom states, "Although only 10 years old, Rayanna attended a “special class” at Crescent Elk Middle School, her mother said. She was 10 and attending a middle school class? Maybe she was in an enrichment class for bright students?

I do not think this grandmother should be charged. I would love to know if mom is on
oxycontin and using grandmom as a scape goat. Also. toxicology reports are not in. How can they charge her? Autopsy results also states her lungs were filled with fluid, which could be a result of an over dose or suffocation?

[Oblio]

They didn't put up yesterday's article, but here's the image of yesterday's front page: http://triplicate.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?image=24996865&event=811329&CategoryID=36468

And the letter to the editor (there were no more today on the subject):
http://www.triplicate.com/20090807106637/Opinion/Letters/Letters-to-the-Editor-August-7-2009

[PeteyGirl]

That child was doomed :( I worked for a while (all I could possibly stand) in an adolescent treatment facility, with young children who seemed determined to self destruct, sniffing glue and paint propellants, finding pills and taking as many of them as they can, finding alcohol and drinking ENORMOUS amounts, unbelievable amounts, all at once and poisoning themselves :(

What with her mother's inability to do BASIC parenting, who disregarded the smallest measures to protect the child from herself, SHE should be the one behind bars held on bail.

I can see why Grandma is also being held accountable. This happened BEFORE. There's no excuse there either :(

But the mother . . . OMG. She is the most culpable of them all. To pay so little attention to her daughter that she did not notice the child was intoxicated, breathing funny (I checked on my kids at that age), which I'm sure she did for hours before she died.

Most of us blame ourselves for things that we couldn't possibly have controlled, when tragedy happens. Then there are those that do unspeakable things without a whit of conscience as they blame everyone else. . . they are as dangerous to society as any sociopath :(

[Boyz_Mum]

If I read correctly, it's been said that Rayanna OD'ed twice before and both times she was in her grandma's care? If that's the way it happened, who in their right mind would have let her step foot in grandma's house, ever, ever again?

[STEADFAST]

They didn't put up yesterday's article, but here's the image of yesterday's front page: http://triplicate.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?image=24996865&event=811329&CategoryID=36468

And the letter to the editor (there were no more today on the subject):
http://www.triplicate.com/20090807106637/Opinion/Letters/Letters-to-the-Editor-August-7-2009

I hope they get more letters like that.

[Salem]

Wow, imo, that mother wanted that child dead and some one better keep an eye on the other child still with her until he's an adult...... if not longer.

Okay - I haven't finished reading the thread and catching up yet - but this is exactly my thought. I'm thinking that mom's disease - Machusian (sp?) where they make the child sick so the parent can get sympathy and attention?

I don't think this child od'd 3 times - I think mom was giving her stuff and then telling the child she did it herself, so the child was confused about what was real and what wasn't. The child maybe felt like she didn't have any control over her own actions. I am totally speculating here, but all we have is mom's story and it is not ringing true to me.

Salem

[Salem]

I really hope LE thoroughly investigates this case and doesn't just take mom's word for what happened. They need to go back and look at the other od's again too. That mom would bring the child's urn to court is over the top. Much of what mom has done here appears to be over the top.

Very hinky, in my opinion.

Salem

[Boyz_Mum]

I really hope LE thoroughly investigates this case and doesn't just take mom's word for what happened. They need to go back and look at the other od's again too. That mom would bring the child's urn to court is over the top. Much of what mom has done here appears to be over the top.

Very hinky, in my opinion.

Salem

I found the headline about the urn in the courtroom pretty odd too. (Thanks Oblio for providing the photo of the newspaper.) I'm bothered by the itchy rash too. If Rayanna had an itchy rash and fever, is this normal to appear in an OD without other symptoms? I would think that difficulty breathing would be a symptom as well, but I don't know as I've never studied medicine. ( I've had an itchy rash from meds though and it got harder and harder to breath as I also had swelling. )

I just don't like how this all happened or is alleged to have happened. It doesn't seem right. JMO.

[OneLostGrl]

ohh God.

[OneLostGrl]

I really hope LE thoroughly investigates this case and doesn't just take mom's word for what happened. They need to go back and look at the other od's again too. That mom would bring the child's urn to court is over the top. Much of what mom has done here appears to be over the top.

Very hinky, in my opinion.

Salem

Which may have something to do with why her 10 year old daughter had two previous OD's (the mom being so over-the- top) so sad.

[OneLostGrl]

That child was doomed :( I worked for a while (all I could possibly stand) in an adolescent treatment facility, with young children who seemed determined to self destruct, sniffing glue and paint propellants, finding pills and taking as many of them as they can, finding alcohol and drinking ENORMOUS amounts, unbelievable amounts, all at once and poisoning themselves :(

What with her mother's inability to do BASIC parenting, who disregarded the smallest measures to protect the child from herself, SHE should be the one behind bars held on bail.

I can see why Grandma is also being held accountable. This happened BEFORE. There's no excuse there either :(

But the mother . . . OMG. She is the most culpable of them all. To pay so little attention to her daughter that she did not notice the child was intoxicated, breathing funny (I checked on my kids at that age), which I'm sure she did for hours before she died.

Most of us blame ourselves for things that we couldn't possibly have controlled, when tragedy happens. Then there are those that do unspeakable things without a whit of conscience as they blame everyone else. . . they are as dangerous to society as any sociopath :(

Ooohh thank you, Thank you for seeing this!!! :blowkiss:

[OneLostGrl]

I have never taken oxycontin but I would imagine anyone would be able to tell a child (or an adult that had never taken it) was deeply impaired by one.

I have taken Vicodin which is much milder than oxycontin and been sick as a dog from it. Taken Soma when I put my back out, out of it, deep sleep.

Not a mother, but I would also assume that any mother on this board would notice if their child was under the influence of narcotics. Especially if your child had ODed twice before.

My question is whether this girl was suicidal or how long has she been exposed to drugs (gestation?). For a child that young to take meds to the point of OD repeatedly, which would not be a fun experience, having your stomach pumped, the sore throat, the naseua. Not something most ten year olds would seek out and repeat and repeat.

Attention seeking? Early addict? Manchausen by proxy? Bio mom sure seems to loving the limelight and attention this is bringing her.....

Not if the mother is also an addict and passed out with or just like gramma. I was well on my way to becoming an addict at 12 but no one noticed because what I was on the same prescriptions my mother was on.

[OneLostGrl]

Are these drug addicted people taking narcotics? Or legit meds taken by people who need them? I understand that people leave pills on their tables and nightstands, I do as well. But the addicts I have been around pay more attention to their narcotics than their children.

And the only people I have EVER seen let their children roam about freely with adults that are popping pills to that degree are other drug addicts.

Many times the ones who take them for legit reasons are the ones who become addicted to them!

[Boyz_Mum]

Many times the ones who take them for legit reasons are the ones who become addicted to them!

I have to agree with you. Most of the people I've met who needed Fentanol (sp?) patches, would have gladly traded their condition for a regular life without drugs.

[OneLostGrl]

I'm highly suspicious of the mother. It's not uncommon for legimate users of Oxycontin to have one or more family members addicted to the medication. They wait until the owner of the med is "out of it" so to speak, and raid their pills. When they wake up, they know nothing of what went on. If pills come up short, they don't have the recall to accuse anyone of theft.

My scenario has the daughter getting into her mother's stash of pills that were stolen from g-ma. Mom goes over to g-mas house to verify that she's knocked out (not to clean), maybe to spread pills around but, she can't get into the safe. Instead she claims that she cleaned them up and put them back into the safe. She invents the potato, pills everywhere story to frame the g-ma. G-ma can't defend herself...she was out cold and knows nothing.

Usually it's the multiple user families that end up with the lock boxes (safes as this mother refered to it), they get sick of every time they pass out their meds end up MIA. The fights in homes like these are horrid, the finger pointing and accusing is stomach turning! My sister used to have to keep her key to her lock box in her work locker because her ex-husband always found it and stole all her oxy's.

[OneLostGrl]

she may detox, but staying clean is unlikely.

She isn't going to leave with new coping skills unless she really seeks them out.

I was thinking about my drug addict mother and her pills, addictions are ritualistic and pills to an addict are very very very valuable. I cannot think of one time my mother tossed pills around the house, couldn't keep track of them, etc....

She hid them around the house "for when she ran out", or at least she thought she did, i never actually saw proof of that occuring, the only portion of that that was visible was the dismantling the house looking for the pills she knew she hid somewhere.

I am not buying this passed out in a pile of pills.
This isn't alcohol where you pass out with the bottle in your hand.
Or herion where you wake up with needle in your arm.

This is take the pills, wash them down, have enough time for them to get into your system, pass out.

Spread around the house sounds like someone who wants to make someone else sound reckless and negligent.

ita!!

[Marina2]

Usually it's the multiple user families that end up with the lock boxes (safes as this mother refered to it), they get sick of every time they pass out their meds end up MIA. The fights in homes like these are horrid, the finger pointing and accusing is stomach turning! My sister used to have to keep her key to her lock box in her work locker because her ex-husband always found it and stole all her oxy's.

I know. I've seen this first hand. A family friend has terminal cancer. Each of his three sons, their girlfriends, and friends of their's wait until this man passes out and then steal all of his medication. I take that back, they leave a couple of pills for him occasionally. The fighting amongst themselves is wicked. Often, the man supplies them with pills for favors(rides to the doctor, food brought to the house, etc) because they won't lift a finger for him otherwise. This leads to fights over who did what for Dad and who is "owed" more for favors. It is stomach turning and even though the man is dying and needs the meds, he's enabled them to this point and is just as much to blame.

[Boyz_Mum]

I know. I've seen this first hand. A family friend has terminal cancer. Each of his three sons, their girlfriends, and friends of their's wait until this man passes out and then steal all of his medication. I take that back, they leave a couple of pills for him occasionally. The fighting amongst themselves is wicked. Often, the man supplies them with pills for favors(rides to the doctor, food brought to the house, etc) because they won't lift a finger for him otherwise. This leads to fights over who did what for Dad and who is "owed" more for favors. It is stomach turning and even though the man is dying and needs the meds, he's enabled them to this point and is just as much to blame.

This is so sad and maddening at the same time.

[impatientredhead]

Not if the mother is also an addict and passed out with or just like gramma. I was well on my way to becoming an addict at 12 but no one noticed because what I was on the same prescriptions my mother was on.

I completely concur. Everything about the mother in this case from her decision making, observation skills, and attention loving behavior scream addict to me.

Usually it's the multiple user families that end up with the lock boxes (safes as this mother refered to it), they get sick of every time they pass out their meds end up MIA. The fights in homes like these are horrid, the finger pointing and accusing is stomach turning! My sister used to have to keep her key to her lock box in her work locker because her ex-husband always found it and stole all her oxy's.

In my experience no one even has to steal the pills for it to be the source of blow out fights. Just the paranoia and obsession that they become.

When I was a freshman in high school my mother was CONVINCED that I had taken 40-50 of fluorinal 3s. She screamed, yelled, tore the house part, insisted that her boyfriend beat me with a belt until I told where they were or who I sold them to. Fortunately the boyfriend realized that my hysteria level seemed to indicate that I didn't have them. Of course this happened on a Friday so it went on all weekend.

Monday morning the pharmacy called her to let her know the rest of her meds had arrived and she could pick them up anytime. She didn't even apologize.

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~That child was doomed :( I worked for a while (all I could possibly stand) in an adolescent treatment facility, with young children who seemed determined to self destruct, sniffing glue and paint propellants, finding pills and taking as many of them as they can, finding alcohol and drinking ENORMOUS amounts, unbelievable amounts, all at once and poisoning themselves :(

:(

Hey Peteygirl! I'm happy to see you on this thread. Also Impatientredhead and One Lost Girl. It sounds as if all 3 of you have different levels of personal experience in this area - which is very helpful to the rest of us.

In your experience at the treatment facility - did you see children as young as 9/10? If so, was it common within the facility or, generally speaking, were the kids older?

Like many sleuths here, I grew up around drugs, and I was pretty street wise at the age of 10 - but I never thought about doing drugs until I was older. Not much older, mind you, but not till I was 12 or 13. I knew about drugs and could speak the lingo and once I even told a story about taking "reds" (can you tell how old I am :crazy:), but the story was a lie. I don't remember any of my friends actually taking any drugs either. Most of what we knew came from older siblings and related to the illegal drug world. I am not familiar with folks that have become addicted to legal drugs.

I do have a hard time believing that this young girl of 10 stole Grandma's pills, came home, waited for dinner, ate dinner, played cards and then went to bed BEFORE she took the pills. Wouldn't that require a lot of restraint on the part of a 10-year? Then, according to mom, at some point she wakes up not feeling good.

Why didn't mom ask her why she was feeling bad if mom knew she was prone to steal drugs and had been to Grandma's where, apparently, drugs were laying around? Mom should have asked immediately when the girl returned if she took any of the drugs AND mom should have followed up when the girl said she didn't feel well and taken her to the hospital at that point.

I'm not believing mom here, not for a minute. Just too pat! Mom knew better if what she says is true.

Salem

[PeteyGirl]

In my SHORT (a year and a half) experience with kids in the treatment facility, it was rare for a child that young, but there were three or four that I remember. They'd been swigging alcohol from a younger age, almost always led on by an older sibling.

Some children are very bright and inquisitive, but their environment is SO destructive their brightness combines with their depression and pain and they do unimaginable things. Some of the kids will develop a major mental illness when they are older, like schizophrenia, and engage in these bizarre self destructive behaviors even in a good home.

I was shocked at how calculating a little child could be :( I think it is VERY rare for a child to be that self possessed, but possible.

Even more likely, the mother is lying to cover her own lack of attention because she herself was impaired in some way by alcohol or drugs and has no memory of anything that happened to the girl that evening. She's covering her own butt. THAT would be more likely than a little child being THAT cunning, having that kind of restraint :(

[OneLostGrl]

I completely concur. Everything about the mother in this case from her decision making, observation skills, and attention loving behavior scream addict to me.



In my experience no one even has to steal the pills for it to be the source of blow out fights. Just the paranoia and obsession that they become.

When I was a freshman in high school my mother was CONVINCED that I had taken 40-50 of fluorinal 3s. She screamed, yelled, tore the house part, insisted that her boyfriend beat me with a belt until I told where they were or who I sold them to. Fortunately the boyfriend realized that my hysteria level seemed to indicate that I didn't have them. Of course this happened on a Friday so it went on all weekend.

Monday morning the pharmacy called her to let her know the rest of her meds had arrived and she could pick them up anytime. She didn't even apologize.


Bold is mine-

Course not, I'm sure somehow you were still made to feel at fault! :hug:

[OneLostGrl]

in my short (a year and a half) experience with kids in the treatment facility, it was rare for a child that young, but there were three or four that i remember. They'd been swigging alcohol from a younger age, almost always led on by an older sibling.

Some children are very bright and inquisitive, but their environment is so destructive their brightness combines with their depression and pain and they do unimaginable things. Some of the kids will develop a major mental illness when they are older, like schizophrenia, and engage in these bizarre self destructive behaviors even in a good home.

I was shocked at how calculating a little child could be :( i think it is very rare for a child to be that self possessed, but possible.

Even more likely, the mother is lying to cover her own lack of attention because she herself was impaired in some way by alcohol or drugs and has no memory of anything that happened to the girl that evening. She's covering her own butt. That would be more likely than a little child being that cunning, having that kind of restraint :(

ita!!

[OneLostGrl]

~Respectfully snipped~

Hey Peteygirl! I'm happy to see you on this thread. Also Impatientredhead and One Lost Girl. It sounds as if all 3 of you have different levels of personal experience in this area - which is very helpful to the rest of us.

In your experience at the treatment facility - did you see children as young as 9/10? If so, was it common within the facility or, generally speaking, were the kids older?

Like many sleuths here, I grew up around drugs, and I was pretty street wise at the age of 10 - but I never thought about doing drugs until I was older. Not much older, mind you, but not till I was 12 or 13. I knew about drugs and could speak the lingo and once I even told a story about taking "reds" (can you tell how old I am :crazy:), but the story was a lie. I don't remember any of my friends actually taking any drugs either. Most of what we knew came from older siblings and related to the illegal drug world. I am not familiar with folks that have become addicted to legal drugs.

I do have a hard time believing that this young girl of 10 stole Grandma's pills, came home, waited for dinner, ate dinner, played cards and then went to bed BEFORE she took the pills. Wouldn't that require a lot of restraint on the part of a 10-year? Then, according to mom, at some point she wakes up not feeling good.

Why didn't mom ask her why she was feeling bad if mom knew she was prone to steal drugs and had been to Grandma's where, apparently, drugs were laying around? Mom should have asked immediately when the girl returned if she took any of the drugs AND mom should have followed up when the girl said she didn't feel well and taken her to the hospital at that point.

I'm not believing mom here, not for a minute. Just too pat! Mom knew better if what she says is true.

Salem

IMO, If this mom isn't a drug addict, when her child came home and said gramma is "soma'd out again" with pills all over the place.. given the childs history, that mother would have been over there in a flash dealing with her mother and the situation.

[6angels]

I'm in a small community so I don't think anybody local is going to write the editor on this one, but if you all do, it might put enough heat on the authorities to charge the mother. She said enough to the paper to warrant an arrest, IMO.

We had another local case where a 19 yr old girl died after she was ejected from a car she was riding in, the driver was drunk. He got a very fair sentence, six years I think, but her family has been unrelenting in their letters to the editor. Some how they missed the fact that their daughter, an adult, made the decision to ride in a vehicle unrestrained with a drunk driver. She wasn't coerced, held against will, etc. There was no malice on his part, and much of his charge had to do with previous convictions, meaning he was held to a much tighter standard of what is intoxicated. As I've heard around town, his BAL wasn't very high at all and the accident had more to do with being young and stupid. Everyone else in the car just had minor to moderate injuries, of course, they all wore seat belts. They seem to want him to rot in hell for his part, though. (we're talking a kid, he was only 23 or 24 at the time)
He was driving drunk? Got in a Accident and she died ? HE WAS DRUNK. He should of got more then 6 years...... JMO What he did was Murder...... Granted she should of been wearing her seat belt however the blame is with the driver that was drunk. Sorry 23 or 24 years old is not a kid. I'm 30 and I knew at 23/24 years old it was wrong to drink drunk.

[6angels]

Ok here is why I think she is being charged . ( this is JMO from dealing with the state as not only a Foster parent( now adoptive parent) but also a foster child.

I believe the state came out and investigated the mom AND the grandma because of the Od's before. I believe the state THEN gave them a "safety plan" they BOTH had to sign. In the plan it included that all drugs be locked up so the child could not get the drugs. OR they spoke to grandma and mom and told them this and they agreed to this.

The drugs was not locked up and the child got into the drugs and died and since this had been a problem before and they had a safety plan to lock the drugs up the grandmother was charged.

When you sign the plan it shows you are aware of the problem and you will do XYZ to correct the problem. If you don't follow the plan KNOWING it's a problem then you are charged with neglict ( and in this case murder as the child has passed away)


The reason Grandma would be investigated by the state is that it happened with her drugs and at her home in the past . The state CAN and DOES make safety plans for grandparents, aunts, uncles etc homes even if the child does not live there if the child is in danger there and in and out of the home. Usually safety plans are done so the child is not taken into foster care and if they was taken into foster care it is done before the child can be sent home.


Again this is just my guess since it said the state has been involved in the past. I am guessing it was not unheard of for the child to go from house to house.They lived in a trailer ( I think I read) and was probley on the same lot or very close by.

IF IF IF IF there is a Safety plan OR the state has told the grandma AND mom all meds needed to be locked up and they was not and they KNEW ( both grandma and mom ) that the child went from home to home then I believe BOTH mom and grandma should be charged.

You throw out the " well it was grandma's house " when grandma knew her grandchild had oded on the drugs before and she knew the grandchild came and went as she pleased. The Drugs should of been locked up PERIOD .No matter what home when they know this is a problem. It was close enough for the child to walk from her home to grandma's home so it must of been close and I bet you anything this child came from the two homes. So yes the grandma should of locked the drugs up.



So I guess in the end I am going against what everyone else thinks. IF they knew and if the child came and went the drugs should of been locked up. I believe mom should be charged as well as she KNEW the child had a problem with taking drugs and she knew her mother had a problem leaving them out. This child was let down by her Grandma, Her mom and the state that should of removed her if not the first time at the very least the second time this happened. The mom SHOULD of walked her child there and never allowed her to go alone and grandma should of locked up her drugs.

[impatientredhead]

Ok here is why I think she is being charged . ( this is JMO from dealing with the state as not only a Foster parent( now adoptive parent) but also a foster child.

I believe the state came out and investigated the mom AND the grandma because of the Od's before. I believe the state THEN gave them a "safety plan" they BOTH had to sign. In the plan it included that all drugs be locked up so the child could not get the drugs. OR they spoke to grandma and mom and told them this and they agreed to this.

The drugs was not locked up and the child got into the drugs and died and since this had been a problem before and they had a safety plan to lock the drugs up the grandmother was charged.

When you sign the plan it shows you are aware of the problem and you will do XYZ to correct the problem. If you don't follow the plan KNOWING it's a problem then you are charged with neglict ( and in this case murder as the child has passed away)


The reason Grandma would be investigated by the state is that it happened with her drugs and at her home in the past . The state CAN and DOES make safety plans for grandparents, aunts, uncles etc homes even if the child does not live there if the child is in danger there and in and out of the home. Usually safety plans are done so the child is not taken into foster care and if they was taken into foster care it is done before the child can be sent home.


Again this is just my guess since it said the state has been involved in the past. I am guessing it was not unheard of for the child to go from house to house.They lived in a trailer ( I think I read) and was probley on the same lot or very close by.

IF IF IF IF there is a Safety plan OR the state has told the grandma AND mom all meds needed to be locked up and they was not and they KNEW ( both grandma and mom ) that the child went from home to home then I believe BOTH mom and grandma should be charged.

You throw out the " well it was grandma's house " when grandma knew her grandchild had oded on the drugs before and she knew the grandchild came and went as she pleased. The Drugs should of been locked up PERIOD .No matter what home when they know this is a problem. It was close enough for the child to walk from her home to grandma's home so it must of been close and I bet you anything this child came from the two homes. So yes the grandma should of locked the drugs up.



So I guess in the end I am going against what everyone else thinks. IF they knew and if the child came and went the drugs should of been locked up. I believe mom should be charged as well as she KNEW the child had a problem with taking drugs and she knew her mother had a problem leaving them out. This child was let down by her Grandma, Her mom and the state that should of removed her if not the first time at the very least the second time this happened. The mom SHOULD of walked her child there and never allowed her to go alone and grandma should of locked up her drugs.

I appreciate your position and think you make a good arguement, but in the end I still say this is on mom 100 percent of the way. It is her child and her responsibility. If she lives this close to gma and they are sharing child responsibilities to this level then she knew gma was still using. And I don't care what a drug addict signs from CPS, they don't magically become responsible adults who say I am gonna get narced up but in a way that is safe for my granddaughter.

If mom is clean (and clearly I don't believe that) than she wouldn't have her drug seeking overdosing pre-teen in that home. As you said they live two trailers away. Mom could have gone. Mom could have called to make sure the "responsible adult" would be supervising. And mom sure as hell could have intervened when her kid said their were pills all over. I am sure CPS was notified by mom that gma was not maintaining her meds as agreed? Or this was the very first time it happened since the CPS order, and it just happened to go down this way?

Of course we are just debating mom's story, a story which I think is a total fabrication from beginning to end. But that is just me.

I do agree with you that if Gma is facing charges she should have some company on that bench.

[PeteyGirl]

So I guess in the end I am going against what everyone else thinks. IF they knew and if the child came and went the drugs should of been locked up. I believe mom should be charged as well as she KNEW the child had a problem with taking drugs and she knew her mother had a problem leaving them out. This child was let down by her Grandma, Her mom and the state that should of removed her if not the first time at the very least the second time this happened. The mom SHOULD of walked her child there and never allowed her to go alone and grandma should of locked up her drugs.

Not everyone :) I thought this right away too, because I figured there was a history and previous intervention (not familiar with what that intervention would be tho, as you are).

The mother absolutely should be held equally accountable. She IS, no matter if the courts do not hold her legally accountable. She sort of falls through a crack in the "laws" that can actually be enforced. SHE didn't have the pills strewn about.

SHE was responsible to care for her daughter and did not. She can't be charged with the same crime Grandma was.

People are too creative (barf) in their criminality for all the laws to cover every single possible kind of wrongdoing we are capable of doing.

I sincerely hope Mom is at least charged with negligence, but it might be a long shot with the existing laws. I sure hope not :(

[OneLostGrl]

I appreciate your position and think you make a good arguement, but in the end I still say this is on mom 100 percent of the way. It is her child and her responsibility. If she lives this close to gma and they are sharing child responsibilities to this level then she knew gma was still using. And I don't care what a drug addict signs from CPS, they don't magically become responsible adults who say I am gonna get narced up but in a way that is safe for my granddaughter.

If mom is clean (and clearly I don't believe that) than she wouldn't have her drug seeking overdosing pre-teen in that home. As you said they live two trailers away. Mom could have gone. Mom could have called to make sure the "responsible adult" would be supervising. And mom sure as hell could have intervened when her kid said their were pills all over. I am sure CPS was notified by mom that gma was not maintaining her meds as agreed? Or this was the very first time it happened since the CPS order, and it just happened to go down this way?

Of course we are just debating mom's story, a story which I think is a total fabrication from beginning to end. But that is just me.

I do agree with you that if Gma is facing charges she should have some company on that bench.

I'm with ya! There is no way in he!! the mother should have trusted her own mother to lock up her meds OR her daughter to stay away from them because of the history!

And IMO, The state was neglegent for trusting any of these adults to take care of these children while still using! They should have been made to quit using and had mandatory drug tests but thats just ME!

[Kat]

6 Angels you put forth a good arguement in that there may have been a contract drawn up by CPS that may have required the signature of the Mother and the Gma.

I haven't heard of that before, anyone?

I think we would have to know how the contract was worded. What was outlined within the contract that covered behaviors of both the Gma and the Mother. If it wasn't worded exactly right~ then I can see there being one and that given the wording it couldn't be used against the Mother.

I want to see how this plays out before I come to a conclusion about what LE is doing in this case.

I agree this child died because of neglect. On her Mother's part. My heart is very heavy for this child who wasn't cherished enough and just wasn't loved enough. Drugs trumped the day in the adults life's that were in custody of her ~ she was seen as an aside.

But that's my personal opinion and it doesn't count in a court of law.

[Marina2]

Ok here is why I think she is being charged . ( this is JMO from dealing with the state as not only a Foster parent( now adoptive parent) but also a foster child.

I believe the state came out and investigated the mom AND the grandma because of the Od's before. I believe the state THEN gave them a "safety plan" they BOTH had to sign. In the plan it included that all drugs be locked up so the child could not get the drugs. OR they spoke to grandma and mom and told them this and they agreed to this.

The drugs was not locked up and the child got into the drugs and died and since this had been a problem before and they had a safety plan to lock the drugs up the grandmother was charged.

When you sign the plan it shows you are aware of the problem and you will do XYZ to correct the problem. If you don't follow the plan KNOWING it's a problem then you are charged with neglict ( and in this case murder as the child has passed away)


The reason Grandma would be investigated by the state is that it happened with her drugs and at her home in the past . The state CAN and DOES make safety plans for grandparents, aunts, uncles etc homes even if the child does not live there if the child is in danger there and in and out of the home. Usually safety plans are done so the child is not taken into foster care and if they was taken into foster care it is done before the child can be sent home.


Again this is just my guess since it said the state has been involved in the past. I am guessing it was not unheard of for the child to go from house to house.They lived in a trailer ( I think I read) and was probley on the same lot or very close by.

IF IF IF IF there is a Safety plan OR the state has told the grandma AND mom all meds needed to be locked up and they was not and they KNEW ( both grandma and mom ) that the child went from home to home then I believe BOTH mom and grandma should be charged.

You throw out the " well it was grandma's house " when grandma knew her grandchild had oded on the drugs before and she knew the grandchild came and went as she pleased. The Drugs should of been locked up PERIOD .No matter what home when they know this is a problem. It was close enough for the child to walk from her home to grandma's home so it must of been close and I bet you anything this child came from the two homes. So yes the grandma should of locked the drugs up.



So I guess in the end I am going against what everyone else thinks. IF they knew and if the child came and went the drugs should of been locked up. I believe mom should be charged as well as she KNEW the child had a problem with taking drugs and she knew her mother had a problem leaving them out. This child was let down by her Grandma, Her mom and the state that should of removed her if not the first time at the very least the second time this happened. The mom SHOULD of walked her child there and never allowed her to go alone and grandma should of locked up her drugs.
Bold by me.

How do we know that the grandmother didn't lock up her pills? They were locked up later that evening but we only have the mother's word that they were locked because she cleaned them up. Maybe they were locked up all along.

I find it hard to believe the mother went to the gma's trailer and locked up the pills yet, at the same time, took no other precautions that evening with regards to her daughter's history of drug overdose.

[Boyz_Mum]

Bold by me.

How do we know that the grandmother didn't lock up her pills? They were locked up later that evening but we only have the mother's word that they were locked because she cleaned them up. Maybe they were locked up all along.

I find it hard to believe the mother went to the gma's trailer and locked up the pills yet, at the same time, took no other precautions that evening with regards to her daughter's history of drug overdose.

Good point. It sure would have been safer if mom would have run and got the potatoes herself.

[Oblio]

He was driving drunk? Got in a Accident and she died ? HE WAS DRUNK. He should of got more then 6 years...... JMO What he did was Murder...... Granted she should of been wearing her seat belt however the blame is with the driver that was drunk. Sorry 23 or 24 years old is not a kid. I'm 30 and I knew at 23/24 years old it was wrong to drink drunk.


Actually that's debatable, as any BAL would have lead to a conviction since he's had priors (before he was 21, so any BAL on his priors, too.), in reality, according those close to those involved, his BAL was low, and his driving had more to do with being out riding with friends on country roads. Either way, nothing can compare to the fact that he has to live the rest of his life knowing he was so instrumental in the death of a friend, yk? Of course I'm a big believer in the idea that prison shouldn't just be punishment, but also rehabilitation for those who can be rehabilitated. He's not a sociopath or a pedophile, he's a young man who made a bad choice. I think if handled properly, he has to potential to be a possitive, contributing member of society. Afterall, he has a story to be told that could save lives.

[jnTexas]

Does anyone else find it amazing that a 10 yr old would take these pills? This child must have had something really horrible going on in her life to think that taking pills was the answer. I can not even get my 10 yr old son to take a pill any meds must be in liquid form.

I do believe this mother was an addict also. there has to be alot more to this story!!

Just what could've been so bad in this child life that being all soma'd out would be better?

[butterfly1978]

It says that the child died late at night or early morning... So you mean to tell me that she did not act stoned or drugged out before going to bed? The mother never noticed a change in her behavior? at what time did she supposedly take these pills? If mom needed daughter to go get potatoes, I am assuming this was around dinner time, lets even say they had a late dinner of 7 pm, 45 minutes is about how long it takes meds to kick in, so where was this mom when her child was first feeling the effects of this meds and why did she not get her help, if she took the pills in the late afternoon, theres no way it took til early morning the next day to kill her.

[STEADFAST]

It says that the child died late at night or early morning... So you mean to tell me that she did not act stoned or drugged out before going to bed? The mother never noticed a change in her behavior? at what time did she supposedly take these pills? If mom needed daughter to go get potatoes, I am assuming this was around dinner time, lets even say they had a late dinner of 7 pm, 45 minutes is about how long it takes meds to kick in, so where was this mom when her child was first feeling the effects of this meds and why did she not get her help, if she took the pills in the late afternoon, theres no way it took til early morning the next day to kill her.

Maybe she took them after the mom went over there at night and got some out of the locked cabinet. Oops, I mean after the mom went over there and locked them up. I wonder if the mom gave any thought to fingerprint evidence at some point?

[SuziQ]

Usually it's the multiple user families that end up with the lock boxes (safes as this mother refered to it), they get sick of every time they pass out their meds end up MIA. The fights in homes like these are horrid, the finger pointing and accusing is stomach turning! My sister used to have to keep her key to her lock box in her work locker because her ex-husband always found it and stole all her oxy's.

ITA, and in my experience, these types of people don't pass out with pills spilled all over. The pills are so valuable to them they can account for each and everyone.

[6angels]

yes I have seen safety plans done for grandparents , aunts and uncles of children even if they did not live with them. When the grandparents ETC admits they help in raising the child or caring for the child or even babysitting the child.

I am going by just what the news says. is it true? I dont know. None of us do. I am just saying IF IF IF IF grandma took a part in raising this child or caring for her and IF IF IF the child came and went and she KNEW the child had taken her meds before and IF IF IF she left her meds out KNOWING the child came and went then yes she was neglictful AS the mother was as well.

There is a LOT OF IF's in this case. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

THE FACT IS the MOTHER AND THE GRANDMA has failed this child. They KNEW she had taken drugs before there for they should of ALWAYS been locked up. IMO Grandma should of had her doors LOCKED if she knew the child was coming and going and mom should of walked with her child and paid attention to her child.


This is NOT a black and white case a child is DEAD and it's the 4th time that they KNOW OF that she took drugs. I am sorry but after the FIRST time Grandma AND mom should of made sure ALL MEDS AT BOTH HOMES WAS LOCKED UP and the CHILD should of NEVER been allowed to go ANY WHERE ALONE until she got help.


WHY WOULD MOM OR GRANDMA RISK THE CHILD'S LIFE??? Mom will letting her go there alone and Grandma with leaving her meds out knowing this was a problem. BOTH failed her and BOTH should be charged. THE STATE IMO should ALSO be charged seeing they didnt remove the child KNOWING NEITHER mom or Grandma could keep her safe.

This was not the first time the child got into the meds when was Grandma and mom supossed to get a clue??? That they BOTH needed to be more careful around this child!? A child's life was lost because both adults could not make sure she was safe.:mad::furious:


Sorry but it does not fly with me that she was just Grandma she was not responable when a child is now dead after doing this with the 4th time with grandma's meds. It is apparant the meds was not secure from the child. It Is apparant the child was allowed around the drugs since it is not the first time it happened. SHAME ON THE MOM first of all, Shame on the Grandma and Shame on the state you all failed this innocent child.

[OneLostGrl]

Does anyone else find it amazing that a 10 yr old would take these pills? This child must have had something really horrible going on in her life to think that taking pills was the answer. I can not even get my 10 yr old son to take a pill any meds must be in liquid form.

I do believe this mother was an addict also. there has to be alot more to this story!!

Just what could've been so bad in this child life that being all soma'd out would be better?

Being "raised" by people who abuse drugs (prescription or otherwise) is more than enough reason for a child to want to get "all soma'd out" (for some reason I keep thinking the articles said it is Oxycontin the grandmother takes. I wonder why the mother was saying Soma- maybe grandma was on that too? who knows)

It's very sad, so very sad!

[OneLostGrl]

yes I have seen safety plans done for grandparents , aunts and uncles of children even if they did not live with them. When the grandparents ETC admits they help in raising the child or caring for the child or even babysitting the child.

I am going by just what the news says. is it true? I dont know. None of us do. I am just saying IF IF IF IF grandma took a part in raising this child or caring for her and IF IF IF the child came and went and she KNEW the child had taken her meds before and IF IF IF she left her meds out KNOWING the child came and went then yes she was neglictful AS the mother was as well.

There is a LOT OF IF's in this case. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

THE FACT IS the MOTHER AND THE GRANDMA has failed this child. They KNEW she had taken drugs before there for they should of ALWAYS been locked up. IMO Grandma should of had her doors LOCKED if she knew the child was coming and going and mom should of walked with her child and paid attention to her child.


This is NOT a black and white case a child is DEAD and it's the 4th time that they KNOW OF that she took drugs. I am sorry but after the FIRST time Grandma AND mom should of made sure ALL MEDS AT BOTH HOMES WAS LOCKED UP and the CHILD should of NEVER been allowed to go ANY WHERE ALONE until she got help.


WHY WOULD MOM OR GRANDMA RISK THE CHILD'S LIFE??? Mom will letting her go there alone and Grandma with leaving her meds out knowing this was a problem. BOTH failed her and BOTH should be charged. THE STATE IMO should ALSO be charged seeing they didnt remove the child KNOWING NEITHER mom or Grandma could keep her safe.

This was not the first time the child got into the meds when was Grandma and mom supossed to get a clue??? That they BOTH needed to be more careful around this child!? A child's life was lost because both adults could not make sure she was safe.:mad::furious:


Sorry but it does not fly with me that she was just Grandma she was not responable when a child is now dead after doing this with the 4th time with grandma's meds. It is apparant the meds was not secure from the child. It Is apparant the child was allowed around the drugs since it is not the first time it happened. SHAME ON THE MOM first of all, Shame on the Grandma and Shame on the state you all failed this innocent child.

It's pretty typical addict behavior- they'll get a clue when they get clean. imo.

[OneLostGrl]

It says that the child died late at night or early morning... So you mean to tell me that she did not act stoned or drugged out before going to bed? The mother never noticed a change in her behavior? at what time did she supposedly take these pills? If mom needed daughter to go get potatoes, I am assuming this was around dinner time, lets even say they had a late dinner of 7 pm, 45 minutes is about how long it takes meds to kick in, so where was this mom when her child was first feeling the effects of this meds and why did she not get her help, if she took the pills in the late afternoon, theres no way it took til early morning the next day to kill her.

I think she probably took them when she was headed off to bed.

What I keep wondering is- did she take them for a buzz and took too many by accident ? or did she take too many knowingly because she wanted to die? I wonder how much was in her system and I wonder what drug/s it actually was that she ingested.

[Boyz_Mum]

Does anyone else find it amazing that a 10 yr old would take these pills? This child must have had something really horrible going on in her life to think that taking pills was the answer. I can not even get my 10 yr old son to take a pill any meds must be in liquid form.

I do believe this mother was an addict also. there has to be alot more to this story!!

Just what could've been so bad in this child life that being all soma'd out would be better?

jnTexas, I find it heartbreaking that a child would take the pills and I also find it odd. My guys are like your son, even the oldest (adult) will only swallow antibiotics if I nag at him to do so. The younger boys will not take pills, while I'm tired of measuring doses of ibuprofen liquid, I'm thankful that none of them will go into the medicine cabinet and take their own dose of anything. (This thread is teaching me more about safeguarding meds, and I appreciate the knowledge.)

ITA, there has to be a lot more to this story.

[Boyz_Mum]

Since the mom had Rayanna's urn to take to the courtroom with her, does this mean that she was cremated? In a situation like this, that is bound to bring up many questions, does the ME get all the answers before cremation can take place? I don't know what I'd expect Rayanna's body to tell, but I feel like there is so much more than accidental OD in this situation.

(I don't have a problem with cremation, it's just in cases when I think there is something that someone missed and it's a child, I have an emotional reaction and want more to be done. :mad:)

[capoly]

Since the mom had Rayanna's urn to take to the courtroom with her, does this mean that she was cremated? In a situation like this, that is bound to bring up many questions, does the ME get all the answers before cremation can take place? I don't know what I'd expect Rayanna's body to tell, but I feel like there is so much more than accidental OD in this situation.

(I don't have a problem with cremation, it's just in cases when I think there is something that someone missed and it's a child, I have an emotional reaction and want more to be done. :mad:)


Feel as you do, Boyz_Mum. The similarities between an allergic reaction to Soma and Rayanna's condition when last seen by her mother are striking. An allergic response can be as deadly as an overdose yet only one pill need be involved. imo Determining the exact cause of death and making it known certainly would be to the benefit of the family and others prescribed Soma.

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/rx/rx-mono.aspx?contentFileName=Som1409.html&contentName=Soma&contentId=532

ETA A Wallace Lab 2002 petition to the FDA in which they ask to have pediatric studies of Soma waived due to the first dose has been followed by serious idiosyncratic symptoms that may require hospitalization. Given a warning of this nature, the petitioner believes that subjecting pediatric patients would be of questionable ethics.....

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Mar02/032902/02p-0138_cp00001_vol1.pdf

[Enchanting_eyes]

Since the mom had Rayanna's urn to take to the courtroom with her, does this mean that she was cremated? In a situation like this, that is bound to bring up many questions, does the ME get all the answers before cremation can take place? I don't know what I'd expect Rayanna's body to tell, but I feel like there is so much more than accidental OD in this situation.

(I don't have a problem with cremation, it's just in cases when I think there is something that someone missed and it's a child, I have an emotional reaction and want more to be done. :mad:)

When a cremation takes place a medical examiner has to sign off for it, meaning until the ME has looked at the body a cremation cannot take place.

That said a deceased can be cremated before the cause of death is determined, as usually the ME has taken samples before releasing the body.

E*E

[anthrobones]

I don't understand. Why was the little girl taking drugs more than once?

[impatientredhead]

I don't understand. Why was the little girl taking drugs more than once?

Same reason so many kids of smokers grow up to smoke.
It has been model for her.
That is what she has seen the adults in her life do to cope.
She is miserable and unhappy, was.
It brings attention and TLC which kids of addicts are frequently starving for...

[stupidityiseverywher]

For all u people that dont know the facts, i am rayanna's aunt, the mother did call and was not informed by terry that she has taken the pills and was told it was ok for ray to go get the potatos. I have know terry 4, 7 years and never have seen her sober, the term soma'd out comes from loving tery. If u take 1 or 2 somas it's like u are drunk but when you take 10-15 you dont know what you are doing. And tery does walk around(if u want to call it walking) and does stuff till she passes out. She also does get back into her meds and takes more pills, its like a drucken black out.swallow pills, thats foregin to terry ,she chews them to get high faster. Kris has been trying to keep her daughter safe since the first od. She keeps her pills locked up in a safe with the key around her neck at all times. She even went as far as to take terrys pills away and monitor how many she gets, yes she did let ray go to grandmas now and then but it was only when she knew she didnt take or have any pills. Then terry started taking pills out of the bottle before giving them to kris without kris's kowledge. She didnt know she had to count her moms pills after filling every script. She did everything in her power to keep her kids safe around a addict. She would not let them go over there when she knew she was high. For the person that wrote that she wanted her daughter dead,,u are a sick f@*&, and as far as my nephew he is here with me. All u people put yourself in a place where u loose you kid by your mothers hand and then talk. Untill then you couldnt even remotley understand. Kris and kc terys son has had a very hard life being raised by terry. The sistem failed my niece. My sister inlaw was talking to the county about a mental hospital for help, she was a very troubled child and had alot of roblems. Hell the hosital didnt even call cps after the first od.and that was straight from sheilas mouth at cps in crescent city ca. The parents of ray tried everything they could to get help and keep her safe, even went so far as to put her on ssi so they would have more help options. On july 31fst kris called her mom and asked if it was ok for ray to come and get potatos for dinner,she was told yes(she should have been told no because she had already taken her pills and if anyone knows anything about soma they kick in between 5-15 min and she takes 10-15 at a time) 10 min later ray left to go get the potatos and came home saying grandma was on the couch sitting up somad out. After going to bed kris was awoken at 2:30 am with ray pukeing, she had a rash and a fever. Kris asked her if she had taken anything ray responded no mom why would u ask that i will never do that again. She gave her tyleol thought she had a bug or poison oak and was going to take her to the dr in the morn. She laid down beneath ray on the bottom bunk and heald her hand as they went back to sleep. My brother went to wake ray at 8:30 am to go to the mall to get new school clothes for ray, she would not respond to his voice, he went over to the bed and nudged her arm, she did not respond, he climbed up onto the bottom bunk and turned her over and saw the worst thing in his life, his daughter of 7 years was gone. He panicked pulled her off the bed and laid her on the floor and did cpr untill the paramedics got there. In the meantime loving grandma comes down and the only thing she could do was slap my nice over and over again in the face and yell a her to come out of it....come out of what? How could she know what she needed to come out of. I pray none of u have to go threw this.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Just so you know the parents of ray didnt have the money for the cremation. The county did it after the corner released the body and after the viewing. She wasnt cremated for a week after her death so stop looking for things that are not there. Let ray and my brother n sister in law have peace.when a cremation takes place a medical examiner has to sign off for it, meaning until the me has looked at the body a cremation cannot take place.

That said a deceased can be cremated before the cause of death is determined, as usually the me has taken samples before releasing the body.

E*e

[stupidityiseverywher]

[My neice] was troubled but she was always laughing playing with other kids, singing and dancing. And it was modeled by her grandma, she always came down when she was high. My brother even took pics of him carying her out of the house. Back to her home. Pics of her bruisses she dont know how she got after a night of soma and oxycotton. same reason so many kids of smokers grow up to smoke.
It has been model for her.
That is what she has seen the adults in her life do to cope.
She is miserable and unhappy, was.
It brings attention and tlc which kids of addicts are frequently starving for...

[stupidityiseverywher]

Thank you for speaking on the similarities of a od and allergic reaction. We dont think she took soma just oxycotton but we will know for sure when we get the tox screen. But they are both pills grandma takes. Grandma is the one that gets high on soma and flonts it around ray. Yes kris the mom takes vicodine for a curvature of the spine but they are in the safe at all times with the key around moms neck at all times. Even though ray is in heaven the key is stillaround her neck. It got placed there the first time ray took pills feel as you do, boyz_mum. The similarities between an allergic reaction to soma and rayanna's condition when last seen by her mother are striking. An allergic response can be as deadly as an overdose yet only one pill need be involved. Imo determining the exact cause of death and making it known certainly would be to the benefit of the family and others prescribed soma.

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/rx/rx-mono.aspx?contentfilename=som1409.html&contentname=soma&contentid=532

eta a wallace lab 2002 petition to the fda in which they ask to have pediatric studies of soma waived due to the first dose has been followed by serious idiosyncratic symptoms that may require hospitalization. Given a warning of this nature, the petitioner believes that subjecting pediatric patients would be of questionable ethics.....

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/mar02/032902/02p-0138_cp00001_vol1.pdf

[GannyP]

stupidityiseverywher--

Thank you for taking the time to explain your personal account of this tragedy. Often we only have the news reports to go by and sometimes they are short on facts. I am so sorry for your family's loss and will be keeping you all in my prayers.

[Enchanting_eyes]

Just so you know the parents of ray didnt have the money for the cremation. The county did it after the corner released the body and after the viewing. She wasnt cremated for a week after her death so stop looking for things that are not there. Let ray and my brother n sister in law have peace.

I was not meaning to be disrespectful, as I was answering someone's else question. As it is per law ( at least in my state, and I would assume others as well ) a ME has to sign off on a cremation before it can take place, so in reality I was actually defending the cremation taken place.

E*E

[stupidityiseverywher]

thank you for you kind words. I am happy to give Rayanna and my brother n sister a voice with all this negative crap out here. I am sorry it comes off so strong and I realy think those of you with open minds and know that any mother in their right mind would never intionally put their child in harms way. There was a saftey plan set up that the mother followed to a T she was supposed to call her mom if Ray was going to go down to her trailer, ( my brother and his family lived in a house) and she did so, Terry (i cant call her grandma) was supposed to say no she cant come down if she had been taking pills, and was supposed to keep her pills locked up. My sister inlaw did keep hers under lock and key at all times but unknowen to her Terrys lock was broke on her safe. Ray did not take the pills that we can tell till around bed time and they stayed up late playing cards that night. They had such a good day. The county droped the ball here and my niece has to pay for it. But thank you for keeping us in your prayers and I will answer any questions from people that are not negative and hurtfull(like the one that said my sister wanted her daughter dead and my nephew shuld be taken away.stupidityiseverywher--

Thank you for taking the time to explain your personal account of this tragedy. Often we only have the news reports to go by and sometimes they are short on facts. I am so sorry for your family's loss and will be keeping you all in my prayers.

[stupidityiseverywher]

sorry i should of been more specific. that post wasnt dirrected to you it was to the person that asked about the cremation and thought my sister was trying to cover something by having her cremated. nothing you said was hurtfull to me.I was not meaning to be disrespectful, as I was answering someone's else question. As it is per law ( at least in my state, and I would assume others as well ) a ME has to sign off on a cremation before it can take place, so in reality I was actually defending the cremation taken place.

E*E

[impatientredhead]

thank you for you kind words. I am happy to give Rayanna and my brother n sister a voice with all this negative crap out here. I am sorry it comes off so strong and I realy think those of you with open minds and know that any mother in their right mind would never intionally put their child in harms way. There was a saftey plan set up that the mother followed to a T she was supposed to call her mom if Ray was going to go down to her trailer, ( my brother and his family lived in a house) and she did so, Terry (i cant call her grandma) was supposed to say no she cant come down if she had been taking pills, and was supposed to keep her pills locked up. My sister inlaw did keep hers under lock and key at all times but unknowen to her Terrys lock was broke on her safe. Ray did not take the pills that we can tell till around bed time and they stayed up late playing cards that night. They had such a good day. The county droped the ball here and my niece has to pay for it. But thank you for keeping us in your prayers and I will answer any questions from people that are not negative and hurtfull(like the one that said my sister wanted her daughter dead and my nephew shuld be taken away.

First let me say I am sorry for your families loss.

How did the county drop the ball? I am not following that?

[stupidityiseverywher]

Well if u knew aything about soma its just like being drunk. Same fuctioning, same blackouts, same fuzzy head and not rembering. And some people not going to mention names(was recentaly in jail) chews pills for a faster high. Then you have minnutes 5-15 before they kick in so the sleeping with pills everywhere was a strong word a mother that lost her child used there were 4 oxys out on the table(no bottle) and somas lying on the floor because she gets dizzy(hints the acchole affect) and drops them. So there are some facts for you to sink in since you had none when you made your last quoteita!!

[stupidityiseverywher]

THANK YOU, nEATHER ARE WE. iT WAS 100,000 THEN SHE WAS OR'ED. rELEASED ON HER OW RECOGNENCE(SP) SO I DONT KNOW I GUESS IN DELNORTE COUNTY YOU CAN GET A TRAFFIC TICCKET AND BE I JAIL FOR A WEEK BUT IN A CASE LIKE THIS YOU GET OUT. i HAD TO PAY 300 TO GET MY HUSBAND OUT ON A BROKEN WINDSHIELD FIX IT TICKET THAT HE DIDNT GO TO COURT FOR BECAUSE HE COULDENT GET OFF WORK BUT THEY THREW HIS A#@ IN JAIL FOR 2 DAYS. sHE WAS IN THERE FOR 3 DAYS THEN OUT JUST TO GO BACK HOME AND STARE OUT HER WINDOWS AT MY BROTHER NEPHEW AND SISTER INLAW, AND TORMENT THEM BY HAVING TO SEE HER FACE KNOWING NOT 100 FEET AWAY IS WHERE MY NIECE DIED.First let me say I am sorry for your families loss.

How did the county drop the ball? I am not following that?

[impatientredhead]

Well if u knew aything about soma its just like being drunk. Same fuctioning, same blackouts, same fuzzy head and not rembering. And some people not going to mention names(was recentaly in jail) chews pills for a faster high. Then you have minnutes 5-15 before they kick in so the sleeping with pills everywhere was a strong word a mother that lost her child used there were 4 oxys out on the table(no bottle) and somas lying on the floor because she gets dizzy(hints the acchole affect) and drops them. So there are some facts for you to sink in since you had none when you made your last quote

I am not trying to be arguementative but none of the facts presented so far change my opinion whatsoever. If anything it has supported that Gma was completely out of control with a substance abuse problem that everyone was aware of, and that a responsible mother would not let any child, let alone one that has ODed repeatedly, anywhere near her. Safe or no safe that is unexplainable to me.

And I am also confused since Gma is passed out with pills around in one scenario, but earlier it was stated that mom called over to Gma's before the potato run. The news says they live two doors from each other, so Gma was alert and didn't sound impaired during that call but was passed out in a drug induced stupor when the daughter arrives?

[impatientredhead]

THANK YOU, nEATHER ARE WE. iT WAS 100,000 THEN SHE WAS OR'ED. rELEASED ON HER OW RECOGNENCE(SP) SO I DONT KNOW I GUESS IN DELNORTE COUNTY YOU CAN GET A TRAFFIC TICCKET AND BE I JAIL FOR A WEEK BUT IN A CASE LIKE THIS YOU GET OUT. i HAD TO PAY 300 TO GET MY HUSBAND OUT ON A BROKEN WINDSHIELD FIX IT TICKET THAT HE DIDNT GO TO COURT FOR BECAUSE HE COULDENT GET OFF WORK BUT THEY THREW HIS A#@ IN JAIL FOR 2 DAYS. sHE WAS IN THERE FOR 3 DAYS THEN OUT JUST TO GO BACK HOME AND STARE OUT HER WINDOWS AT MY BROTHER NEPHEW AND SISTER INLAW, AND TORMENT THEM BY HAVING TO SEE HER FACE KNOWING NOT 100 FEET AWAY IS WHERE MY NIECE DIED.

Thank you for clarifying what the county had done wrong in your view. She has been charged and will stand trial, it is pretty normal handling of a defendant that is not accused of a violent act, doesn't have a violent criminal record, hasn't failed to appear in court, and is not considered a flight risk. I can completely empathize with the amount of tension that must be present in that close of quarters.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Wow, are you serious, how could you even say that not being there. My niece died holding her mothers hand. My niece did have problems, her mother was not drunk or messed up. She was up with her that night cuz she had a fever and was sick to her stomache. How can u even say those horriable things, give me a break people she just lost her kid and her mother. Have a heart. What happend to human nature and kindness, where the hell did it go. Is it all gone thease days? in my short and a half) experience with kids in the treatment facility, it was rare for a child that young, but there were three or four that i remember. They'd been swigging alcohol from a younger age, almost always led on by an older sibling.

Some children are very bright and inquisitive, but their environment is so destructive their brightness combines with their depression and pain and they do unimaginable things. Some of the kids will develop a major mental illness when they are older, like schizophrenia, and engage in these bizarre self destructive behaviors even in a good home.

I was shocked at how calculating a little child could be :( i think it is very rare for a child to be that self possessed, but possible.

Even more likely, the mother is lying to cover her own lack of attention because she herself was impaired in some way by alcohol or drugs and has no memory of anything that happened to the girl that evening. She's covering her own butt. That would be more likely than a little child being that cunning, having that kind of restraint :(

[dimples37398]

I haven't posted in a while, but felt compelled to post on this thread. I am very sorry for your loss, it is horrible no matter the circumstances. I don't know all the facts surrounding this horrible tragedy but from what has been released...I don't understand how the Grandmother is being charged but the mother is not.

She was sent to get potatoes at a house where she did not reside, her mother had knowledge of the grandmothers drug problems if that is the case. Was it not the responsibility of the mother to make sure that her daughter was safe. If her mother sent her to the store for potatoes knowing that she had to cross a busy street and something happened, would it be no fault of the mothers then?

The mother sent her daughter to the grandmothers house knowing the history and troubles the grandmother and her own daughter had. The child should not have been allowed at the grandmothers house at all without her mom there with her.

All of this is only my opinion, I am still so very sorry for your families loss, and I pray you find comfort somehow.

[SuziQ]

thank you for you kind words. I am happy to give Rayanna and my brother n sister a voice with all this negative crap out here. I am sorry it comes off so strong and I realy think those of you with open minds and know that any mother in their right mind would never intionally put their child in harms way. There was a saftey plan set up that the mother followed to a T she was supposed to call her mom if Ray was going to go down to her trailer, ( my brother and his family lived in a house) and she did so, Terry (i cant call her grandma) was supposed to say no she cant come down if she had been taking pills, and was supposed to keep her pills locked up. My sister inlaw did keep hers under lock and key at all times but unknowen to her Terrys lock was broke on her safe. Ray did not take the pills that we can tell till around bed time and they stayed up late playing cards that night. They had such a good day. The county droped the ball here and my niece has to pay for it. But thank you for keeping us in your prayers and I will answer any questions from people that are not negative and hurtfull(like the one that said my sister wanted her daughter dead and my nephew shuld be taken away.

I am so sorry for your loss. However, you all expected a known drug addict to tell the truth? They never, especially if under the influence, tell the truth.

[stupidityiseverywher]

ok go back and read........she did call but did not imadeatly send her down for the potatos. as far as your view u are entitled to your view. BUT UNTILL ANY OF U HAVE A MOTHER LIKE THAT AND ARE GOING THREW THIS AND ARE GOING BUY WHAT CPS SAID YOU CANT SAY WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN THE SAME, AS NEITHER CAN I AND AM HER AUNTI am not trying to be arguementative but none of the facts presented so far change my opinion whatsoever. If anything it has supported that Gma was completely out of control with a substance abuse problem that everyone was aware of, and that a responsible mother would not let any child, let alone one that has ODed repeatedly, anywhere near her. Safe or no safe that is unexplainable to me.

And I am also confused since Gma is passed out with pills around in one scenario, but earlier it was stated that mom called over to Gma's before the potato run. The news says they live two doors from each other, so Gma was alert and didn't sound impaired during that call but was passed out in a drug induced stupor when the daughter arrives?

[stupidityiseverywher]

Um your coworker would have of gotten her trailer from the gma///////the mom does not live in a trailer. And yes she does have white powder arounds her nose and lips because she chews her pills not swallows them........so yes your coworker is right....and how do you know my sister in law and brother to be able to say the things you are saying.in today's paper, gma pleads not guilty, is released until next court date. Mom parades daughter's urn around court room and pleads to the court not to release her mother. Also a letter to the editor, which you will be able to read tomorrow. (along with today's article, which also mentions that the two times she did od, she was in grandma's care)

my coworker said something about these people being the people she bought her trailer from, and that when she went to get it or pay for it, one had white powder all around her nose, and claimed to have just taken her pills. I wasn't listening close enough to discern if she was talking about mom or grandma.

[southcitymom]

For all u people that dont know the facts, i am rayanna's aunt, the mother did call and was not informed by terry that she has taken the pills and was told it was ok for ray to go get the potatos. I have know terry 4, 7 years and never have seen her sober, the term soma'd out comes from loving tery. If u take 1 or 2 somas it's like u are drunk but when you take 10-15 you dont know what you are doing. And tery does walk around(if u want to call it walking) and does stuff till she passes out. She also does get back into her meds and takes more pills, its like a drucken black out.swallow pills, thats foregin to terry ,she chews them to get high faster. Kris has been trying to keep her daughter safe since the first od. She keeps her pills locked up in a safe with the key around her neck at all times. She even went as far as to take terrys pills away and monitor how many she gets, yes she did let ray go to grandmas now and then but it was only when she knew she didnt take or have any pills. Then terry started taking pills out of the bottle before giving them to kris without kris's kowledge. She didnt know she had to count her moms pills after filling every script. She did everything in her power to keep her kids safe around a addict. She would not let them go over there when she knew she was high. For the person that wrote that she wanted her daughter dead,,u are a sick f@*&, and as far as my nephew he is here with me. All u people put yourself in a place where u loose you kid by your mothers hand and then talk. Untill then you couldnt even remotley understand. Kris and kc terys son has had a very hard life being raised by terry. The sistem failed my niece. My sister inlaw was talking to the county about a mental hospital for help, she was a very troubled child and had alot of roblems. Hell the hosital didnt even call cps after the first od.and that was straight from sheilas mouth at cps in crescent city ca. The parents of ray tried everything they could to get help and keep her safe, even went so far as to put her on ssi so they would have more help options. On july 31fst kris called her mom and asked if it was ok for ray to come and get potatos for dinner,she was told yes(she should have been told no because she had already taken her pills and if anyone knows anything about soma they kick in between 5-15 min and she takes 10-15 at a time) 10 min later ray left to go get the potatos and came home saying grandma was on the couch sitting up somad out. After going to bed kris was awoken at 2:30 am with ray pukeing, she had a rash and a fever. Kris asked her if she had taken anything ray responded no mom why would u ask that i will never do that again. She gave her tyleol thought she had a bug or poison oak and was going to take her to the dr in the morn. She laid down beneath ray on the bottom bunk and heald her hand as they went back to sleep. My brother went to wake ray at 8:30 am to go to the mall to get new school clothes for ray, she would not respond to his voice, he went over to the bed and nudged her arm, she did not respond, he climbed up onto the bottom bunk and turned her over and saw the worst thing in his life, his daughter of 7 years was gone. He panicked pulled her off the bed and laid her on the floor and did cpr untill the paramedics got there. In the meantime loving grandma comes down and the only thing she could do was slap my nice over and over again in the face and yell a her to come out of it....come out of what? How could she know what she needed to come out of. I pray none of u have to go threw this.

My prayers for your family - I cannot imagine what pain you all must be feeling.

Most of us will never fully know all the ins and outs of the cases we discuss on the internet so casually, and my stomach sometimes churns at the unkindness of strangers.

[southcitymom]

I am so sorry for your loss. However, you all expected a known drug addict to tell the truth? They never, especially if under the influence, tell the truth.

I'm not sure what you mean here - could you elaborate?

[6angels]

First let me say I am sorry for your families loss.

How did the county drop the ball? I am not following that?
The MOM and GRANDMA did. The mom knew Grandma got high off her drugs so why would she trust Grandma would be honest about when she took the drugs? She was a drug abuser the mom knew this( HOW could she not by what the aunt is saying) the mom took a chance and it cost her her daughters life. So no I am sorry but the mom did not do everything she could a child's life was lost because the mom and grandma did not do what was needed which was watch this child and make sure she was safe at all times and personally I dont care who disagree's with me or gets mad at my post. a Innocent CHILD was lost.

[6angels]

Well if u knew aything about soma its just like being drunk. Same fuctioning, same blackouts, same fuzzy head and not rembering. And some people not going to mention names(was recentaly in jail) chews pills for a faster high. Then you have minnutes 5-15 before they kick in so the sleeping with pills everywhere was a strong word a mother that lost her child used there were 4 oxys out on the table(no bottle) and somas lying on the floor because she gets dizzy(hints the acchole affect) and drops them. So there are some facts for you to sink in since you had none when you made your last quote
UGH if this happens then Why would a mom in their right mind allow their child to go down there without her being there?

[6angels]

Wow, are you serious, how could you even say that not being there. My niece died holding her mothers hand. My niece did have problems, her mother was not drunk or messed up. She was up with her that night cuz she had a fever and was sick to her stomache. How can u even say those horriable things, give me a break people she just lost her kid and her mother. Have a heart. What happend to human nature and kindness, where the hell did it go. Is it all gone thease days?
Human nature and kindness goes out of the window when a mom , grandma and the state failed a child and she ended up dead IMO My kindness goes out to YOU her aunt and the CHILD that died but not to Grandma and mom.




I AM SOOO sorry for your lose and I hope you all find peace I will be praying for you all but I just can not find a nice word for the mom or grandma or even the state I will however pray for them.

[stupidityiseverywher]

thank you for your kind words and your prayers. I am so happy that me telling our story of our devastating loss is letting the people on here know that what you read in the papers is not always true. The only thing that matters is my niece is gone, we will never hear her laughter again, never hear her voice, never see her smile, never wipe her tears,never see her babies, my brother will never walk her down the isle. People do you not see the pain, can u not be a little more respectfull? Southcitymom i thank you with all my heart for your post. And i do understand that when you read the news there are questions and everyone has and is entitled to their own opion's but thats why i am doing this. Everyone will know ray's story when i am done. my prayers for your family - i cannot imagine what pain you all must be feeling.

Most of us will never fully know all the ins and outs of the cases we discuss on the internet so casually, and my stomach sometimes churns at the unkindness of strangers.

[6angels]

ok go back and read........she did call but did not imadeatly send her down for the potatos. as far as your view u are entitled to your view. BUT UNTILL ANY OF U HAVE A MOTHER LIKE THAT AND ARE GOING THREW THIS AND ARE GOING BUY WHAT CPS SAID YOU CANT SAY WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN THE SAME, AS NEITHER CAN I AND AM HER AUNT
Until we have a mother like that????? Guess what I DID have a abusive evil mom ( she didnt do drugs but she was NOT safe ) ........... So I don't allow my kids to see her.. I keep them safe at ALL cost........ to bad this mom didnt do the same.

[6angels]

stupidityiseverywher

People are angry at mom and the grandma bc a precious innocent child was lost because two adults could not or would not keep her safe. This could of all been avoided if Grandma locked the drugs up and if mom walked her to grandma's house to get the food. She should of never ever went alone and the mom should of never ever trusted grandma's word when she abuses drugs. People who do drugs don't always tell the truth. People are angry because this is a accident that should of NEVER happened. It was avoidable but yet was not. It was a problem in the past but people ignored it , Ignored it enough to send a CHILD down alone even if two houses down!


My love, my prayers goes out to the family ( Aunt's uncle's etc) and I will pray for both grandma and mom but I can't help but be angry at them two adults that both failed this child. The mom should of never took the risk and allowed the child to go down alone. never ever ever it was not a risk worth taking. Calling was not enough..... It's to bad it took this innocent cihld dieing for the mom to understand that.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Ok here we go again. The mom did know that the gma was abbusing her med's and that is why the mom started regulating them for her, just for gma to take some out of the bottle before giving them to the mom to hold,and she didn't know she was getting them from a neighbor. If this was my mom and my daughter went to her house and od'ed i would think my mom would then do anything in her power to keep it from happening again. Addict or not. That's what kris thought. How could she have known what links her mom was going to do to get high. She is not that way and i don't care what anyone says if your not a addict you don't understand a addict. You don't know the hoops the will jump threw to get high. Fortunatly we have never been around addicts to know how they are. And when someone od's in your home a normal person would think if you are going to get high after that you will make sure your not putting your grand daughter in harms way. But we would not of knowen that till now, and it is very fricken sad that it takes this level to make people aware of how addicts act. Ive learned so much about addict behavior since this has happened. I am just sorry i was stupid till now when it comes to addicts. And yes a very beautiful life was lost because of stupidity. Cps set a plan for gma and mom to follow and mom followed it, how was she to know gma wasn't? The second time ray od'ed was a lie she lied about taking them and at that point gma was following cps order and said there was no way she could of got into the pills and of course kris did not believe her and called 911 just to find out that gma was telling the truth, that gave mom a sense of security thinking gma was doing as told. So if gma was following the cps order and the drugs were locked up and ray had no access to them(is what mom thought sinse gma told the truth on the 2nd time) would you then say that it was safe to go to gmas. No matter the situation or what i say there is going to be someone to find something else wrong. And there is something wrong my niece is gone that is what is wrong.the mom and grandma did. The mom knew grandma got high off her drugs so why would she trust grandma would be honest about when she took the drugs? She was a drug abuser the mom knew this( how could she not by what the aunt is saying) the mom took a chance and it cost her her daughters life. So no i am sorry but the mom did not do everything she could a child's life was lost because the mom and grandma did not do what was needed which was watch this child and make sure she was safe at all times and personally i dont care who disagree's with me or gets mad at my post. A innocent child was lost.

[SuziQ]

I'm not sure what you mean here - could you elaborate?

Yeah sorry about that, that was about a drug users own use etc not necessarily about life in general. Drug addicts are not known for their honesty when confronted with their drug use. I unfortunately have many drug addicts and alcoholics in my family. My oldest daughter's father is a drug addict. Telling the truth about anything going on in their life is not a strong suit. To expect them to self report and monitor their addiction honestly is like letting the fox watch the hen house IMO.

FWIW. I have never let my children be around any of these people unattended. It's just not safe to do so. Most of these people I haven't had contact with them for a decade or more. It was lonely and hard to do so. But I had no choice.

[stupidityiseverywher]

i missread ur quote i thought it said bale. i believe ive posted where cps was not informed when ray od'd the first time im not sure. there were alot of things. as the time they were going to put her in a mental hospital but never followed threw, not calling cps when she did it the first time, not doing a police investagation untill it was 2 late they had 3 chances here to interviene (sp ) but did not once, my sister inlaw went as far as to get ssi 4 ray to get more help. i lived in crescent city for a long time and there is not much to say when a 36 year old woman can sleep with a 16 year old boy and cps takes the daughter of the 36 year old out of the home but the woman is never charged. this is a diffrent case that i knew of while living there.the town is full of drug addicts and nowhere and nothing for kids to do. that is why i got my kids the hell out of that town. hanging out at the local movie theater smoking pot is not the life i wanted for my kids. then u have cps taken kids out of homes where the parents have a uncontrollable teen and are doing everything to try to keep that kid safe but because you cant make the kid go into class when you drop the kid off in front of school and keep them from sneaking out and being out after 10 pm. WHAT CAN YOU DO IN A SMALL TOWN LIKE THIS WHERE THE KIDS THAT NEED HELP RALEY GET IT AND THE KIDS THAT DONT BUT DONT LIKE THE RULES AND WANT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO GET ALL THE HELP THEY WANT. THE SISTEM FAILED MY NIECE THERE COULD OF BEEN SO MUCH DONE FOR HER AND IF SHE WAS HERE WHERE I LIVE THERE WOULD OF BEEN SO MUCH DONE. I HATE BULLSH#@ LIKE THIS I WHISH EVERY CHILD THAT NEEDS HELP GETS IT AND THE PEOPLE THAT ABUSE THE HELP OUT THERE GETS CUT OFF. HELP THE KIDS ........ SAVE THE KIDS.... Thank you for clarifying what the county had done wrong in your view. She has been charged and will stand trial, it is pretty normal handling of a defendant that is not accused of a violent act, doesn't have a violent criminal record, hasn't failed to appear in court, and is not considered a flight risk. I can completely empathize with the amount of tension that must be present in that close of quarters.

[Laece]

It is not really a 'fact' that grandma failed this child. She doesn't seem to know what happened at all, and according to all accounts, she was passed out. I believe, other circumstances aside, that at some point she really was passed out, and it was just a matter of convenience for Mom to make everyone, including grandma, think that's when this all happened.

Maybe Mom helped herself to a few oxys on occasion, and didn't want to get into legal trouble about why they were in the house, so naturally, blame grandma who has them, has had them, and has the added burden of being 'responsible' for two other ODs.

We all know Rayanna's not talking. Stupid decision, yes, and a troubled child, but she was a child in a less than healthy situation, no matter what the story, and for that alone I am heartbroken.

I think mom and mom alone should go down for this, and I think autopsy results are going to be very revealing...

[Laece]

Cps set a plan for gma and mom to follow and mom followed it, how was she to know gma wasn't? The second time ray od'ed was a lie she lied about taking them and at that point gma was following cps order and said there was no way she could of got into the pills and of course kris did not believe her and called 911 just to find out that gma was telling the truth, that gave mom a sense of security thinking gma was doing as told. So if gma was following the cps order and the drugs were locked up and ray had no access to them(is what mom thought sinse gma told the truth on the 2nd time) would you then say that it was safe to go to gmas. No matter the situation or what i say there is going to be someone to find something else wrong. And there is something wrong my niece is gone that is what is wrong.

When it comes to children, you protect them no matter what. When you know your child is troubled, and your family has some issues, you ACCOMPANY YOUR MINOR-AGE CHILD INTO THE SITUATION THAT HAS CAUSED THE MOST HARM, or, even better, you keep them away from it altogether. Go get your own potatoes, if you must. :rolleyes:

I don't care if 'grandma told the truth the 2nd time'. If she didn't tell the truth the first time, that gives a 50/50 chance of a child's safety in that situation. Not good enough.

No excuses.

[southcitymom]

Yeah sorry about that, that was about a drug users own use etc not necessarily about life in general. Drug addicts are not known for their honesty when confronted with their drug use. I unfortunately have many drug addicts and alcoholics in my family. My oldest daughter's father is a drug addict. Telling the truth about anything going on in their life is not a strong suit. To expect them to self report and monitor their addiction honestly is like letting the fox watch the hen house IMO.

FWIW. I have never let my children be around any of these people unattended. It's just not safe to do so. Most of these people I haven't had contact with them for a decade or more. It was lonely and hard to do so. But I had no choice.

Thanks - I hear you about addicts and honesty of use.

But so many of these questions are not black and white for me. My Dad is an alcoholic and was a using alcoholic all of my childhood -he drove with me while he was drunk or drinking many times. I definitely had some feelings and some pain surrounding his alcoholism - I will not minimize the truth of that.

That said, my Dad was my most stable parent and gave me so many good tools (along with some less than positive ones!) and has helped me immeasurably in my life and has always loved me very much, even with his feet of clay. He still does and he is still a drunk. I am so glad that no one ever really tried to take me away from him (in fact, I made the choice to go and live with him after my parents divorce) and I would never keep my children away from him today.

I agree that some addicts are toxic and unsafe and that reasonable people have to make choices about if or how to have such people in their life or around their children, but I think it's a very individual choice with no one size fits all solution.

[stupidityiseverywher]

You know i am sorry to hear about your less then happy experiences in your childhood. I hate that any id has to go threw any of the bad stuff adults make the decisions to do. I totaly agree with you about the decisions being diffrent for each person and each case. I realy do believe there are alot of people that are leaving comments on here that have drug addicts or drunks or pill poppers in the family and they probely know or not knowen have their kids around them. I am sure there are grandpas and aunts and uncles that have been around peoples kids. Nobody is perfect and it is hard to not let your mom see her grandkid when she has been living next to you for her hole life.ya maybee her judgment was clouded from the love of her mother and the love of her daughter. If she would have ever now this would happen and that gma was not keeping her deal with cps ray never would have been down there. Thank you for all you have said. And your support for my family at a time like this. thanks - i hear you about addicts and honesty of use.

But so many of these questions are not black and white for me. My dad is an alcoholic and was a using alcoholic all of my childhood -he drove with me while he was drunk or drinking many times. I definitely had some feelings and some pain surrounding his alcoholism - i will not minimize the truth of that.

That said, my dad was my most stable parent and gave me so many good tools (along with some less than positive ones!) and has helped me immeasurably in my life and has always loved me very much, even with his feet of clay. He still does and he is still a drunk. I am so glad that no one ever really tried to take me away from him (in fact, i made the choice to go and live with him after my parents divorce) and i would never keep my children away from him today.

I agree that some addicts are toxic and unsafe and that reasonable people have to make choices about if or how to have such people in their life or around their children, but i think it's a very individual choice with no one size fits all solution.

[southcitymom]

You know i am sorry to hear about your less then happy experiences in your childhood. I hate that any id has to go threw any of the bad stuff adults make the decisions to do. I totaly agree with you about the decisions being diffrent for each person and each case. I realy do believe there are alot of people that are leaving comments on here that have drug addicts or drunks or pill poppers in the family and they probely know or not knowen have their kids around them. I am sure there are grandpas and aunts and uncles that have been around peoples kids. Nobody is perfect and it is hard to not let your mom see her grandkid when she has been living next to you for her hole life.ya maybee her judgment was clouded from the love of her mother and the love of her daughter. If she would have ever now this would happen and that gma was not keeping her deal with cps ray never would have been down there. Thank you for all you have said. And your support for my family at a time like this.

Thank you for your kindness and I appreciate your input on this thread.

I think sometimes when we discuss very sad cases here, we want to be able to wrap them up in a safe little package and say "This could never happen to me because I wouldn't do X, Y or Z." That is more comforting than considering the alternative.

I will keep your family in all my prayers.

[songline]

Yes! The Grandma is all soma'd out again quote is so disturbing!
Hmm..never heard that expression before, "soma'd out" but what do I know? I can relate to what it must mean.
That child was trouble and troubled, Grandma is not guilty, she was sick / junkie NOBODY should have sent that child anywhere near grandma without supervision especially after that child had already tested the world of pill popping.

Where is she now? I hope she is OK in some hospital the old lady was trouble too..
Interesting case going back to read. seems like Criminal negligence and they were all druggies.
Poor baby she did not stand a chance.

[songline]

thank you for you kind words. I am happy to give Rayanna and my brother n sister a voice with all this negative crap out here. I am sorry it comes off so strong and I realy think those of you with open minds and know that any mother in their right mind would never intionally put their child in harms way. There was a saftey plan set up that the mother followed to a T she was supposed to call her mom if Ray was going to go down to her trailer, ( my brother and his family lived in a house) and she did so, Terry (i cant call her grandma) was supposed to say no she cant come down if she had been taking pills, and was supposed to keep her pills locked up. My sister in law did keep hers under lock and key at all times but unknown to her Terry's lock was broke on her safe. Ray did not take the pills that we can tell till around bed time and they stayed up late playing cards that night. They had such a good day. The county dropped the ball here and my niece has to pay for it. But thank you for keeping us in your prayers and I will answer any questions from people that are not negative and hurtful(like the one that said my sister wanted her daughter dead and my nephew should be taken away.
WOW! Bless your heart for what you do. You are a loving sister with a big open heart.
Thanks for setting things right. I am so sorry for your family's pain. I know when you love your family members you cant imagine yourself being negligent, but while the state did fail her, that child should have never gone to grandma unsupervised. But we learned it the hard way, nobody is perfect. Sending healings to you all. :blowkiss:

[Enchanting_eyes]

sorry i should of been more specific. that post wasnt dirrected to you it was to the person that asked about the cremation and thought my sister was trying to cover something by having her cremated. nothing you said was hurtfull to me.

It's OK, no harm done.

I am however sorry for your families loss, regardless of the circumstances surrendering the event, this was a tragic accident. I hope that your family can find some peace again.


E*E

[6angels]

Thank you for your kindness and I appreciate your input on this thread.

I think sometimes when we discuss very sad cases here, we want to be able to wrap them up in a safe little package and say "This could never happen to me because I wouldn't do X, Y or Z." That is more comforting than considering the alternative.

I will keep your family in all my prayers.


This WOULD NEVER happen to me. I CAN guarantee you that.

[itsreenw]

d was supposed to keep her pills locked up. My sister inlaw did keep hers under lock and key at all times but unknowen to her Terrys lock was broke on her safe. Ray did not take the pills that we can tell till around bed time and they stayed up late playing cards that night. They had such a good day. The county droped the ball here and my niece has to pay for it.
(Highlighted by me)
Stupidityiseverywhere, that is exactly why it is partly Kris's responsibility.
She didn't know the situation at gma's house. You can't take chances like that and assume that everything is ok, especially when there is a history of gma being 'soma'd out'. If Kris would've taken 5 minutes and walked down there herself, we wouldn't even be discussing this. I know these are your relatives and you are trying to convey that they are good people, and I don't doubt that they are but Kris, not the county, failed her daughter not once that day, but three times.

First, was when she sent her troubled 10 yr old daughter ANYWHERE by herself, much less on an errand one of the parents should have went on. Or they could've walked together when they were outside chasing lizards.

The second time is when Ray came home and announced there were pills all over the place at gma's. Did they check her pockets to see if she could have possibly gotten a hold of something while gma was soma'd out? If she was up playing cards with her mom, it's possible she waited and took the pills at home, not at gma's, so wouldn't Kris be responsible for what happens to her child at home?

The third time is when the child woke up with those symptoms and again, Kris knew there were pills thrown around at gma's but took Ray's word for it that she hadn't taken any drugs instead of being careful and taking the child to the hospital just to be on the safe side. On top of that she gave her a tylenol (another pill).

Face it, Kris used terrible judgment that day and I'm sorry if I said anything to upset you but how can she want to see Teri imprisoned without feeling she deserves punishment too.

Did your brother find Ray in the morning or did Kris? In an article linked from early on in the thread, Kris gives details about when she found her but you said your brother found her. Not suggesting anything, just trying to get the facts right.

[southcitymom]

This WOULD NEVER happen to me. I CAN guarantee you that.

Well, that's good - one less thing you have to worry about!

[wonders]

Stupidityiseverywhere,

I am very very sorry that Rayanna had to die this way. It has truely broken my heart for her. That being said I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. Why was Rayanna troubled in the first place?
2. Why did Rayanna OD twice before?
3. Where were the responsible adults in Rayanna's whole life?
4. How many siblings does Rayanna have and how old are they?
5. Are Rayanna's siblings troubled also?
I hope you answer my questions as I really want to know the answers. Thank you.

[stupidityiseverywher]

They were not all junkies. My brother and my sister does not do drugs. They are not strung out, and no my niece is not ok in a hospital she is in heaven.hmm..never heard that expression before, "soma'd out" but what do i know? I can relate to what it must mean.
That child was trouble and troubled, grandma is not guilty, she was sick / junkie nobody should have sent that child anywhere near grandma without supervision especially after that child had already tested the world of pill popping.

Where is she now? I hope she is ok in some hospital the old lady was trouble too..
Interesting case going back to read. Seems like criminal negligence and they were all druggies.
Poor baby she did not stand a chance.

[stupidityiseverywher]

My brother found her. I was not at the triplicate when the story was given to the reporter, But Kris said that it was a missprint. I agree the child was failed. Reminding you that she had no symptoms untill 2:30 am, there were no pockets to go threw, Kris went as far to even go threw her vomit after asking if she took anything, She did search. She gave her childrens tylenol to get her fever down, How was she to know she took pills, How was she to Know the symptoms of a OD she is not a DR. Its easy to point blame when you were not there. all I now is the world lost a beautifull gift on 7-31-09 . We will never heal. WHen does it get easier? It hurts so much to get on here to wright about this, But I do it for Ray and my family. Ad for the person that said thank you to me (Hfor doing this and that I love my brother ad have a big heart thank you It is so nice to get a possitive among all this negative.
Stupidityiseverywhere, that is exactly why it is partly Kris's responsibility.
She didn't know the situation at gma's house. You can't take chances like that and assume that everything is ok, especially when there is a history of gma being 'soma'd out'. If Kris would've taken 5 minutes and walked down there herself, we wouldn't even be discussing this. I know these are your relatives and you are trying to convey that they are good people, and I don't doubt that they are but Kris, not the county, failed her daughter not once that day, but three times.

First, was when she sent her troubled 10 yr old daughter ANYWHERE by herself, much less on an errand one of the parents should have went on. Or they could've walked together when they were outside chasing lizards.

The second time is when Ray came home and announced there were pills all over the place at gma's. Did they check her pockets to see if she could have possibly gotten a hold of something while gma was soma'd out? If she was up playing cards with her mom, it's possible she waited and took the pills at home, not at gma's, so wouldn't Kris be responsible for what happens to her child at home?

The third time is when the child woke up with those symptoms and again, Kris knew there were pills thrown around at gma's but took Ray's word for it that she hadn't taken any drugs instead of being careful and taking the child to the hospital just to be on the safe side. On top of that she gave her a tylenol (another pill).

Face it, Kris used terrible judgment that day and I'm sorry if I said anything to upset you but how can she want to see Teri imprisoned without feeling she deserves punishment too.

Did your brother find Ray in the morning or did Kris? In an article linked from early on in the thread, Kris gives details about when she found her but you said your brother found her. Not suggesting anything, just trying to get the facts right.

[impatientredhead]

When it comes to children, you protect them no matter what. When you know your child is troubled, and your family has some issues, you ACCOMPANY YOUR MINOR-AGE CHILD INTO THE SITUATION THAT HAS CAUSED THE MOST HARM, or, even better, you keep them away from it altogether. Go get your own potatoes, if you must. :rolleyes:

I don't care if 'grandma told the truth the 2nd time'. If she didn't tell the truth the first time, that gives a 50/50 chance of a child's safety in that situation. Not good enough.

No excuses.

Exactly. Gma is a serious drug addict who has not been to rehab or gotten help for her issue. You cannot rely on a drug addict to protect your child. They don't suddenly become responsbile and clear think because DSHS had them sign a form. It is reckless endangerment of a child.

[songline]

They were not all junkies. My brother and my sister does not do drugs. They are not strung out, and no my niece is not ok in a hospital she is in heaven.
Thank you for your reply :( And Again God Bless you all.
I meant I hope Grandma is OK in some Hospital, not a prison.
She is a sick woman not an evil one. That baby should have never
been trusted anywhere near her unsupervised.
I am the person who thanked you. Now I am the one who prays for you.
You are hurting and I can see that.

[Oblio]

Um your coworker would have of gotten her trailer from the gma///////the mom does not live in a trailer. And yes she does have white powder arounds her nose and lips because she chews her pills not swallows them........so yes your coworker is right....and how do you know my sister in law and brother to be able to say the things you are saying.

I'm not sure what I said about your brother or SIL, I'm just stating that this is the family (mother/daughter) that this girl bought her trailer (read camper trailer, not house trailer) from years ago. She said one of the women (and I wasn't listening close enough to attest to which) had white powder around her nose and explained that she had just taken her pills. It's a lot of he said she said, and I'm just repeating what she said, I wasn't making the assertion myself or saying anything about your bro/sil.

And I'm still with the others, it was the parents responsibility to see to it that Ray was never, ever, unsupervised in the pressence of her grandmother. Period. Rayona was failed by those who were most responsible for her well being. This whole mess could have been avoided if they had only done that. It's sad, and it's unfortunate. Everyone involved is suffering for this failure.

[wonders]

Stupidityiseverywhere,

I am very very sorry that Rayanna had to die this way. It has truely broken my heart for her. That being said I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. Why was Rayanna troubled in the first place?
2. Why did Rayanna OD twice before?
3. Where were the responsible adults in Rayanna's whole life?
4. How many siblings does Rayanna have and how old are they?
5. Are Rayanna's siblings troubled also?
I hope you answer my questions as I really want to know the answers. Thank you.

Stupidityiseverywhere,
Please answer the questions above.

[songline]

Stupidityiseverywhere,
Please answer the questions above.
With no disrespect at all:
I am not playing devils advocate: but in all honesty that may be hard for her to reply to.
You are asking her to send her family up the river.
What can she say? that would not sell them out?
Clearly we can see that it was a very dysfunctional family.
CLEARLY there was daniel if she thought she can send a kid to her moms house unsupervised.
clearly we can see that there was love there too.
If I was stupidityiseverywhere I would say Mind your business, these questions will not bring her back.

[Cicada]

Ok here is why I think she is being charged . ( this is JMO from dealing with the state as not only a Foster parent( now adoptive parent) but also a foster child.

I believe the state came out and investigated the mom AND the grandma because of the Od's before. I believe the state THEN gave them a "safety plan" they BOTH had to sign. In the plan it included that all drugs be locked up so the child could not get the drugs. OR they spoke to grandma and mom and told them this and they agreed to this.

The drugs was not locked up and the child got into the drugs and died and since this had been a problem before and they had a safety plan to lock the drugs up the grandmother was charged.

When you sign the plan it shows you are aware of the problem and you will do XYZ to correct the problem. If you don't follow the plan KNOWING it's a problem then you are charged with neglict ( and in this case murder as the child has passed away)


The reason Grandma would be investigated by the state is that it happened with her drugs and at her home in the past . The state CAN and DOES make safety plans for grandparents, aunts, uncles etc homes even if the child does not live there if the child is in danger there and in and out of the home. Usually safety plans are done so the child is not taken into foster care and if they was taken into foster care it is done before the child can be sent home.


Again this is just my guess since it said the state has been involved in the past. I am guessing it was not unheard of for the child to go from house to house.They lived in a trailer ( I think I read) and was probley on the same lot or very close by.

IF IF IF IF there is a Safety plan OR the state has told the grandma AND mom all meds needed to be locked up and they was not and they KNEW ( both grandma and mom ) that the child went from home to home then I believe BOTH mom and grandma should be charged.

You throw out the " well it was grandma's house " when grandma knew her grandchild had oded on the drugs before and she knew the grandchild came and went as she pleased. The Drugs should of been locked up PERIOD .No matter what home when they know this is a problem. It was close enough for the child to walk from her home to grandma's home so it must of been close and I bet you anything this child came from the two homes. So yes the grandma should of locked the drugs up.



So I guess in the end I am going against what everyone else thinks. IF they knew and if the child came and went the drugs should of been locked up. I believe mom should be charged as well as she KNEW the child had a problem with taking drugs and she knew her mother had a problem leaving them out. This child was let down by her Grandma, Her mom and the state that should of removed her if not the first time at the very least the second time this happened. The mom SHOULD of walked her child there and never allowed her to go alone and grandma should of locked up her drugs.

Hi everyone. I was just reading this thread and thought I would jump off of this post, 6angels. You make a very compelling argument, but IMO, I would think if an agreement was made it would be that the children could not go to GM's without supervision from another adult. Or would at least insist that the children could not go to GM's period. Of course, you never know with CPS.

My concern, besides the fact that a child died needlessly, is that if GM is convicted of this, would that make every neighbor in every neighborhood culpable if someone's kid came into their home uninvited, and OD'd? I mean, say you babysat this child knowing her history of prescription med abuse; you locked your medication away from her when you were watching her. Then say one day the mother sends her to your house to borrow sugar and you are in the back yard working in your flower bed or something, and the child comes through the front door without your knowledge. If that child sees your meds on the kitchen table, and takes some, are you culpable for that? Will this set a precedence for that degree of culpability?
IMO, the GM should not have been charged at all. If someone comes into my home uninvited, is that not breaking and entering, no matter the age or relation? I believe the mother is 100% to blame for this. At the very least, she should have been more than a little concerned about a fever and rash. Especially as this is also symptoms of meningitis.

[itsreenw]

My brother found her. I was not at the triplicate when the story was given to the reporter, But Kris said that it was a missprint. I agree the child was failed. Reminding you that she had no symptoms untill 2:30 am, there were no pockets to go threw, Kris went as far to even go threw her vomit after asking if she took anything, She did search. She gave her childrens tylenol to get her fever down, How was she to know she took pills, How was she to Know the symptoms of a OD she is not a DR. Its easy to point blame when you were not there. all I now is the world lost a beautifull gift on 7-31-09 . We will never heal. WHen does it get easier? It hurts so much to get on here to wright about this, But I do it for Ray and my family. Ad for the person that said thank you to me

BBM. Let me say this first. Being an auntie of 10, I know the pain you must be going through right now must be unbearable. I admire your courage for coming on here to answer our questions and being a voice for Rayanna and your family. Thank you very much. Please understand, that none of our comments are directed at you. You are our only inside source, so we are barraging you with questions and our personal feelings. Our hearts are breaking for Rayanna. With that said, I have questions and comments...

I believe deep inside Kris probably knows she is partially responsible for her daughter's death, but admitting that publicly may land her in jail too so she seems to be going overboard with throwing gma under the bus.

What were the symptoms the first 2 times she overdosed? What did Kris go to gma's house for later that evening? Where did she lock the pills up if the lock was broken on gma's safe box?

This quote was a misprint?

The next morning Rayanna’s mother went to wake her up and said, “I went back in to her room and she was lying on her stomach. I turned her over and it was awful ... she was gone. Somewhere between her going back to bed and when I got up, my baby left.”


Around 2:30 a.m. the next morning, Rayanna woke her mother complaining of feeling hot and itching.
So in addition to a fever and rash, Rayanna was vomiting too? It may have been mentioned here , but this is the first I've heard of that. THAT is not a sign of poison oak.
Kris had a suspicion of what happened if she was going through vomit




Quotes from:
http://media.novusdetox.com/dependence.php?include=140181

[OneLostGrl]

Well if u knew aything about soma its just like being drunk. Same fuctioning, same blackouts, same fuzzy head and not rembering. And some people not going to mention names(was recentaly in jail) chews pills for a faster high. Then you have minnutes 5-15 before they kick in so the sleeping with pills everywhere was a strong word a mother that lost her child used there were 4 oxys out on the table(no bottle) and somas lying on the floor because she gets dizzy(hints the acchole affect) and drops them. So there are some facts for you to sink in since you had none when you made your last quote

I am very sorry for your loss... however, I know plenty about Soma and Oxycontin.

[indicajane]

Not to minimize the situation, but since this is a crime discussion board, and there was definately a crime here..

Once the mother heard that there will pills all over grandma's, she KNEW that the plan wasn't being followed. She at that point KNEW that her troubled child was unsupervised in the house with pills. The same child who got plenty of reaction, negative maybe, but a reaction from the last time she took pills. The time before, she just SAID she took pills, and now she had another opportunity to take them for real and jumped on it.

I think as soon as I discovered that my troubled daughter was alone in a house with pills and a knocked out grandma, I would have assumed the worst. At that point, the med's weren't taken. I would have searched that child, and perhaps even taken her to get her stomach pumped.

Of course, I have plenty of family like that, and I wouldn't let my kids be unsupervised at any of their homes. While my children would not consume medication, as small children I was terrified they would find them lying around and think it was candy. He!!, I wouldn't even let my DOG over to my Aunt's house, can you imagine what an Oxy could do to a 7 pound dog?

Too bad people don't do the same with their kids :(

[stupidityiseverywher]

Thank you mary for saying that. I am not affraid to answer them it's just some of them are very personal to ray and i will not discrase her memory by posting personal things on here, there are reasons she was troubled and it was mental not physical thats all i will say about that, my nephew is normal,as far as how old he is why would that matter he is here with me and thats all that matters. As far as responisable adults and where were they well i can tell you that my brother did the best he could to try to be a dad to ray and considdered her his after her father walked out on her very young. My family is not disfuncitonal,, kris side may be thats not for me to say she wil get her judgement one way or the other. If not now then when she goes. There are alot of bad things that happend to mom before she became a mother why was that not stopped, then maybee like everyone says, that all this was moddeled for ray well it was almost moddeled for kris, its her norm to be around that stuff since she grew up with it all around her.when will our kids not have to live with all the hurt and pain in their lives? Why dont we start stepping in before it can come t this instead of letting everyone off the hook and letting them back out to be around kids. I dont know i think i am done posting there are a few people out there i want to thank with all my heart for the prayers and kindness, for the guy or girl that wants answers to those questions, you let me know who you are and personal things about you and then i will answer yours. with no disrespect at all:
I am not playing devils advocate: But in all honesty that may be hard for her to reply to.
You are asking her to send her family up the river.
What can she say? That would not sell them out?
Clearly we can see that it was a very dysfunctional family.
Clearly there was daniel if she thought she can send a kid to her moms house unsupervised.
Clearly we can see that there was love there too.
If i was stupidityiseverywhere i would say mind your business, these questions will not bring her back.

[stupidityiseverywher]

She went threw the vomit to be sure there were no pills after going to gmas and cleaning up pills. The symptoms the first time were not set in, ray told her mom because she got scared and her mom called 911. The missprint,,, she said jay(my brother) turned her over and she was gone and that sometime that night my baby left. The exzact wording takes to long for me to right but those were the missprints. And kris called g ma to see if it was ok for ray to come get potatos, so she knew she was comming. Kris went down there after ray said gma was somad out again and there were pills everywhere. She went to check on her mom and cleaned the pills up not knowing ray already had some she cleaned them up seen that the lock was broken on the box then locked them up in her car, just for gma later that night to go down to kris's house and kris heard something outside, the gma was trying to get into kris's car to get her pills after her grandaughter just passed she was worried about getting her pills out. I know alot of you are stciking up for gma but let me tell you if you knew her you wouldb't be.bbm. Let me say this first. Being an auntie of 10, i know the pain you must be going through right now must be unbearable. I admire your courage for coming on here to answer our questions and being a voice for rayanna and your family. Thank you very much. Please understand, that none of our comments are directed at you. You are our only inside source, so we are barraging you with questions and our personal feelings. Our hearts are breaking for rayanna. With that said, i have questions and comments...

I believe deep inside kris probably knows she is partially responsible for her daughter's death, but admitting that publicly may land her in jail too so she seems to be going overboard with throwing gma under the bus.

What were the symptoms the first 2 times she overdosed? What did kris go to gma's house for later that evening? Where did she lock the pills up if the lock was broken on gma's safe box?

this quote was a misprint?


so in addition to a fever and rash, rayanna was vomiting too? It may have been mentioned here , but this is the first i've heard of that. That is not a sign of poison oak.
Kris had a suspicion of what happened if she was going through vomit


[/color]

quotes from:
http://media.novusdetox.com/dependence.php?include=140181

[stupidityiseverywher]

I forgot the second time ray lied about it so there were no symptoms then ither. Kris did check rays pockets and where she has been knowen to take things and stash them. She had stashing spots for candy she would take without asking and things she would take from other kids .she went threw the vomit to be sure there were no pills after going to gmas and cleaning up pills. The symptoms the first time were not set in, ray told her mom because she got scared and her mom called 911. The missprint,,, she said jay(my brother) turned her over and she was gone and that sometime that night my baby left. The exzact wording takes to long for me to right but those were the missprints. And kris called g ma to see if it was ok for ray to come get potatos, so she knew she was comming. Kris went down there after ray said gma was somad out again and there were pills everywhere. She went to check on her mom and cleaned the pills up not knowing ray already had some she cleaned them up seen that the lock was broken on the box then locked them up in her car, just for gma later that night to go down to kris's house and kris heard something outside, the gma was trying to get into kris's car to get her pills after her grandaughter just passed she was worried about getting her pills out. I know alot of you are stciking up for gma but let me tell you if you knew her you wouldb't be.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Red? I dont know of them ever having red trailer. Do you still talk to this person that bought it? Can you ask her where she bought it from what town? Then i will know excatualy if it was gma or someone ealse. i'm not sure what i said about your brother or sil, i'm just stating that this is the family (mother/daughter) that this girl bought her trailer (read camper trailer, not house trailer) from years ago. She said one of the women (and i wasn't listening close enough to attest to which) had white powder around her nose and explained that she had just taken her pills. It's a lot of he said she said, and i'm just repeating what she said, i wasn't making the assertion myself or saying anything about your bro/sil.

And i'm still with the others, it was the parents responsibility to see to it that ray was never, ever, unsupervised in the pressence of her grandmother. Period. Rayona was failed by those who were most responsible for her well being. This whole mess could have been avoided if they had only done that. It's sad, and it's unfortunate. Everyone involved is suffering for this failure.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Sorry mary that was not all to you. I just read all the quotes before i start responding and when i am typing they all flood my head so i start answering more than one at a time. The last quote about the guy or girl that wants answers to personal info was who most of it was to.thank you mary for saying that. I am not affraid to answer them it's just some of them are very personal to ray and i will not discrase her memory by posting personal things on here, there are reasons she was troubled and it was mental not physical thats all i will say about that, my nephew is normal,as far as how old he is why would that matter he is here with me and thats all that matters. As far as responisable adults and where were they well i can tell you that my brother did the best he could to try to be a dad to ray and considdered her his after her father walked out on her very young. My family is not disfuncitonal,, kris side may be thats not for me to say she wil get her judgement one way or the other. If not now then when she goes. There are alot of bad things that happend to mom before she became a mother why was that not stopped, then maybee like everyone says, that all this was moddeled for ray well it was almost moddeled for kris, its her norm to be around that stuff since she grew up with it all around her.when will our kids not have to live with all the hurt and pain in their lives? Why dont we start stepping in before it can come t this instead of letting everyone off the hook and letting them back out to be around kids. I dont know i think i am done posting there are a few people out there i want to thank with all my heart for the prayers and kindness, for the guy or girl that wants answers to those questions, you let me know who you are and personal things about you and then i will answer yours.

[stupidityiseverywher]

That would all be a good argument if gma wasnt asked if it was ok for ray to come down, kris was told it was ok, the gma was expecting her, ray didnt go right after the call waited for 10 min or so so there was time to put the pills away (knowing her history) so if she was expecting her why wasnt this all done, why didnt she tell mom ive taken my pilss no dont send her? That puts blame on gma for me, that was cps's agreement to call and make sure it was ok for ray to come down before letting her around gma, thats what was done, so its not a breaking and entering, she had time t put pills away and could of said i am on my pills.hi everyone. I was just reading this thread and thought i would jump off of this post, 6angels. You make a very compelling argument, but imo, i would think if an agreement was made it would be that the children could not go to gm's without supervision from another adult. Or would at least insist that the children could not go to gm's period. Of course, you never know with cps.

My concern, besides the fact that a child died needlessly, is that if gm is convicted of this, would that make every neighbor in every neighborhood culpable if someone's kid came into their home uninvited, and od'd? I mean, say you babysat this child knowing her history of prescription med abuse; you locked your medication away from her when you were watching her. Then say one day the mother sends her to your house to borrow sugar and you are in the back yard working in your flower bed or something, and the child comes through the front door without your knowledge. If that child sees your meds on the kitchen table, and takes some, are you culpable for that? Will this set a precedence for that degree of culpability?
Imo, the gm should not have been charged at all. If someone comes into my home uninvited, is that not breaking and entering, no matter the age or relation? I believe the mother is 100% to blame for this. At the very least, she should have been more than a little concerned about a fever and rash. Especially as this is also symptoms of meningitis.

[STEADFAST]

I know alot of you are stciking up for gma but let me tell you if you knew her you wouldb't be.
snipped

See, this is the problem for me. You're saying that the family knew the grandma was out of control, and yet Ray's mom still took grandma's word that it was okay for Ray (who the family also knew was out of control) to come over alone.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Ok but ray was a child gma was a adult. What has happend can never be changed but when you do keep the kids away from gma and she is on your door step crying and begging to b able to see the kids and saying she will go by cps order and that she will not get high when the kids are around,,,what do you dosnipped

see, this is the problem for me. You're saying that the family knew the grandma was out of control, and yet ray's mom still took grandma's word that it was okay for ray (who the family also knew was out of control) to come over alone.

[songline]

Thank you mary for saying that. I am not affraid to answer them it's just some of them are very personal to ray and i will not discrase her memory by posting personal things on here, there are reasons she was troubled and it was mental not physical thats all i will say about that, my nephew is normal,as far as how old he is why would that matter he is here with me and thats all that matters. As far as responisable adults and where were they well i can tell you that my brother did the best he could to try to be a dad to ray and considdered her his after her father walked out on her very young. My family is not disfuncitonal,, kris side may be thats not for me to say she wil get her judgement one way or the other. If not now then when she goes. There are alot of bad things that happend to mom before she became a mother why was that not stopped, then maybee like everyone says, that all this was moddeled for ray well it was almost moddeled for kris, its her norm to be around that stuff since she grew up with it all around her.when will our kids not have to live with all the hurt and pain in their lives? Why dont we start stepping in before it can come t this instead of letting everyone off the hook and letting them back out to be around kids. I dont know i think i am done posting there are a few people out there i want to thank with all my heart for the prayers and kindness, for the guy or girl that wants answers to those questions, you let me know who you are and personal things about you and then i will answer yours.Were you talking to me songline? Who is Mary?

[STEADFAST]

Ok but ray was a child gma was a adult. What has happend can never be changed but when you do keep the kids away from gma and she is on your door step crying and begging to b able to see the kids and saying she will go by cps order and that she will not get high when the kids are around,,,what do you do

You say no. Ray's mom had a responsibility to tell gma she didn't believe her and to protect Ray. Ray's mom needed to be the adult.

[Salem]

That would all be a good argument if gma wasnt asked if it was ok for ray to come down, kris was told it was ok, the gma was expecting her, ray didnt go right after the call waited for 10 min or so so there was time to put the pills away (knowing her history) so if she was expecting her why wasnt this all done, why didnt she tell mom ive taken my pilss no dont send her? That puts blame on gma for me, that was cps's agreement to call and make sure it was ok for ray to come down before letting her around gma, thats what was done, so its not a breaking and entering, she had time t put pills away and could of said i am on my pills.

stupidityiseverywher - I am very sorry for your loss and very sorry that Ray was lost.

I have not caught up on the whole thread yet, but I want to ask - you say that your SIL, Kris, did several things such as inspecting the vomit, searching pockets, calling gma before Ray went over, etc. How do you know this? Is it because this is what Kris is telling you? Do you think that Kris may be embellishing the truth a little due to the CPS agreement? You said that CPS required that Kris call gma before the kids went over. Do you think that Kris might just be saying she called because of CPS?

I don't mean to sound accusatory. You know Kris, I do not. I am just wondering if you see any reason to doubt Kris' story or wonder about what really happened that night.

And.... of course you do not have to answer my question. This is your family and I do not mean to be disresepctful.

Prayers to your family,

Salem

[stupidityiseverywher]

Sorry yes i was talking to you,,,i am new at this and on the bottom of where you leave a quote it said mary so i thought that was you name sorry but at least now i knw,,,so the ones that said mary are for you...i think there is one morewere you talking to me songline? Who is mary?

[stupidityiseverywher]

So did rays grandmayou say no. Ray's mom had a responsibility to tell gma she didn't believe her and to protect ray. Ray's mom needed to be the adult.

[stupidityiseverywher]

WHEN IT COMES TO KIDS BEING HURT JUST LIKE EVERYONE EALSE I SUSPECT TILL THERE ARE FACTS, THE PHONE CALL I SEEN THE RECORED I CAN SPEAK OF THAT AND KNOW ITS A FACT, THE VOMIT I SEEN THE PAN THE NEXT MORNING AND ALTHOUGH RINSED OUT IT WAS IN RAYS ROOM PLUS THERE WAS VOMIT ALL OVER HER MATTRESS THAT THE POLICE TOOK. DID SHE INSPECT THE VOMIT I BELIEVE SHE DID. UNLESS SOMETHING COMES UP FOR ME NOT TO, TO ME THATS JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST COMES OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD TO SAY UNLESS YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT AND I THINK IF YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE IT, AS FAR AS THE POCKETS, I BELIEVE SHE CHECKED THEM AFTER CLEANING UP THE PILLS AT GMAS BECAUSE THEN SHE KNEW THAT THERE WERE ILLS LYING AROUND AND RAY WAS NOT LYING ABOUT IT, BUT FOR THAT I WAS NOT THERE. AT 2:30 AM WHEN RAY STARTED GETTING SICK THERE WERE NO POCKETS TO GO THREW. SO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN GOING TO GMAS AROUND 7-7:15 PM AND 2:30 AM RAY TOOK PILLS. i BELIEVE SHE HID THEM AND TOOK THEM AROUND BED TIME BECAUSE IT TAKES PILLS 45-1 HR TO KICK IN AND THEY STAYED UP LATE PLAYING CARDS, SO I BELIEVE SHE TOOK THEM BETWEEN 11PM AND 12 AM THEN SHE STARTED TO GET SICK. aS FAR AS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS, WHEN PEOPLE ASK THEM THE WAY YOU DID I HAVE NO PROBLEM ANSWERING, IT WAS A REFRESHING CHANGE FROM THE WAY I HAVE BEEN BEING ASKED. THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART FOR THE PRAYERS. GOD BLESS stupidityiseverywher - I am very sorry for your loss and very sorry that Ray was lost.

I have not caught up on the whole thread yet, but I want to ask - you say that your SIL, Kris, did several things such as inspecting the vomit, searching pockets, calling gma before Ray went over, etc. How do you know this? Is it because this is what Kris is telling you? Do you think that Kris may be embellishing the truth a little due to the CPS agreement? You said that CPS required that Kris call gma before the kids went over. Do you think that Kris might just be saying she called because of CPS?

I don't mean to sound accusatory. You know Kris, I do not. I am just wondering if you see any reason to doubt Kris' story or wonder about what really happened that night.

And.... of course you do not have to answer my question. This is your family and I do not mean to be disresepctful.

Prayers to your family,

Salem

[stupidityiseverywher]

When i said you were talking about my brother and sil, i was talking about your first quote when you decided to start this thread;;;;;;;;i'm not sure what i said about your brother or sil, i'm just stating that this is the family (mother/daughter) that this girl bought her trailer (read camper trailer, not house trailer) from years ago. She said one of the women (and i wasn't listening close enough to attest to which) had white powder around her nose and explained that she had just taken her pills. It's a lot of he said she said, and i'm just repeating what she said, i wasn't making the assertion myself or saying anything about your bro/sil.

And i'm still with the others, it was the parents responsibility to see to it that ray was never, ever, unsupervised in the pressence of her grandmother. Period. Rayona was failed by those who were most responsible for her well being. This whole mess could have been avoided if they had only done that. It's sad, and it's unfortunate. Everyone involved is suffering for this failure.

[Cicada]

That would all be a good argument if gma wasnt asked if it was ok for ray to come down, kris was told it was ok, the gma was expecting her, ray didnt go right after the call waited for 10 min or so so there was time to put the pills away (knowing her history) so if she was expecting her why wasnt this all done, why didnt she tell mom ive taken my pilss no dont send her? That puts blame on gma for me, that was cps's agreement to call and make sure it was ok for ray to come down before letting her around gma, thats what was done, so its not a breaking and entering, she had time t put pills away and could of said i am on my pills.


I do sympathize with your family. A loss of a child is horrible under any circumstance. I do have to wonder though: Why would Kris not have sent Ray immediately down? Why wait 10 minutes? If GM was lucid at the time of the call, and only lived 2 homes down, chances are Ray could have been in and out before GM passed out. As far as GM showing up on the doorstep crying to see them, well, let her in. At least it would have been supervised.
To be honest, and I do not mean any disrespect to any member of your family, I would have never sent my child to GM's alone for any reason, knowing the situation. I have a brother who has a drinking problem, and my children aren't allowed at his house without me or their father, nor do we allow them to ride in a vehicle he is driving even if he appears sober.
IMO, it is still the parent's responsibility to protect the children. Even if that means hurting someone else's feelings. After all, GM didn't consider Kris' feelings when she caused CPS to investigate to begin with, did she?

[stupidityiseverywher]

i dont know why ray didnt go immediatly down.. she did only allow her to visit in her home for a while, then as it seemed she was getting her act together because kris was regulating her pills for her she thought it was ok(cant realy say ok but used it for a lack of better word, theres not realy anything ok about this) just to find out gma was hidding pills before she gave kris the bottles after getting them filled. i agree with u if it was me and my kids it would have been a diffrent situation, but its not and i dont know excatualy know how gmas and krises relationship was,i know what ever was said when it came to ray or g ma or her side of the family by my brother it was always over road by gma and sometimes mom. I dont know why ray was allowed to go over other then the reasons ive already posted. when my brother gets back i am going to talk to him now that he has had some time to get threw the shock, I didnt want to talk to him before this because it was not the right time nor the right place, but any way there will be more post by me later in the future,,,, thank you for your kind wordsI do sympathize with your family. A loss of a child is horrible under any circumstance. I do have to wonder though: Why would Kris not have sent Ray immediately down? Why wait 10 minutes? If GM was lucid at the time of the call, and only lived 2 homes down, chances are Ray could have been in and out before GM passed out. As far as GM showing up on the doorstep crying to see them, well, let her in. At least it would have been supervised.
To be honest, and I do not mean any disrespect to any member of your family, I would have never sent my child to GM's alone for any reason, knowing the situation. I have a brother who has a drinking problem, and my children aren't allowed at his house without me or their father, nor do we allow them to ride in a vehicle he is driving even if he appears sober.
IMO, it is still the parent's responsibility to protect the children. Even if that means hurting someone else's feelings. After all, GM didn't consider Kris' feelings when she caused CPS to investigate to begin with, did she?

[Cicada]

i dont know why ray didnt go immediatly down.. she did only allow her to visit in her home for a while, then as it seemed she was getting her act together because kris was regulating her pills for her she thought it was ok(cant realy say ok but used it for a lack of better word, theres not realy anything ok about this) just to find out gma was hidding pills before she gave kris the bottles after getting them filled. i agree with u if it was me and my kids it would have been a diffrent situation, but its not and i dont know excatualy know how gmas and krises relationship was,i know what ever was said when it came to ray or g ma or her side of the family by my brother it was always over road by gma and sometimes mom. I dont know why ray was allowed to go over other then the reasons ive already posted. when my brother gets back i am going to talk to him now that he has had some time to get threw the shock, I didnt want to talk to him before this because it was not the right time nor the right place, but any way there will be more post by me later in the future,,,, thank you for your kind words


Thank you so much for responding to all of us. I know it must be difficult, and we do appreciate it. My prayers to all of your family.

[impatientredhead]

ok go back and read........she did call but did not imadeatly send her down for the potatos. as far as your view u are entitled to your view. BUT UNTILL ANY OF U HAVE A MOTHER LIKE THAT AND ARE GOING THREW THIS AND ARE GOING BUY WHAT CPS SAID YOU CANT SAY WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN THE SAME, AS NEITHER CAN I AND AM HER AUNT

I was raised by a drug addict mother and I can tell you with first hand experience that drug addicts are liars and unlikely to change. It may be too late in your families case, and for that again I am sorry, but we can say what is right or wrong and anyone reading this that is "hopeful" about a drug addicts behavior around their children, hang on to your hope for the family member and try to get them help but absolutely do not ever put your child's well being subject to the addicts judgement.

It is really not a tough call, especially with a child that has ODed twice already.

[songline]

Hi stupidityiseverywher :)

In one post you say:
- If I knew Grandma like you know Grandma I would not have stuck up for her.
GRANTED. I am sure you know far more then I do.
- You also state that this family is NOT dysfunctional - to which I have to add -
That is all in the eyes of the beholder. To the world at large a family raised by a drug addict
can not be functional. They are Dysfunctional, and most dysfunctional families think they are functional.

This is an investigation, grandmas profile will be investigated as will be RAY'S mom Kris's profile.
I do not see that Kris did anything right In My Opinion. I do see denial, and out to lunch syndrome.
I am sure it will be found that both women were SICK, and drugs do make some mean too.
I believe you that Grandma is a hand full, and you don't want to to talk bad about her.
But it will come out. It must. This is an investigation.

I do respect that you are trying to do some damage control because you love your brother, your family.
I do hope you find peace and keep your children away from all of them.
Love does not mean you have to accept anything that may be damaging.
I pray you find the strength to stay away from all of them. At least until there is evidence of healing,
and that takes a very long time. Your Sister in law is a mess. God bless you for keeping her son.

[Oblio]

Now SIE, I don't get what you're saying I said about your SIL or bro. I never even knew of your bro until you came onto the thread, I only stated how I interpreted the article. period. Most people here interpreted it the same way.

As far as a red trailer, well hell, I don't know what color it was, and I certainly never said it was red. I said "read travel trailer" as in a trailer, not a trailer house.

Again, I am sorry for what your family is going through. Ray was failed by so many around her and I still don't think that her grandmother should be thrown under the bus for it. Should she be charged with something? I'm sure she should, especially if the stuff you have brought to the thread is true, but she's not the only one who failed Rayanna.

As I stated before, I believe that prison is also about rehabilitation. Your SIL did not lose her daughter and mother in one fell swoop. She still has her mother, and she should be thankful for it. They both need help and healing, which I think is possible in the case of both. Lets hope that Gma has the support in and out of prison(should she go) that she comes out clean and responsible, but she is going to need the support of her daughter more than anyone for that to happen.

[stupidityiseverywher]

My brother only takes a heart burn pill. He is not disfunctional, he is as normal, he has a beer every now and then but thats all my brother does. My brother has always been a good father, uncle brother and son. He has never done anything to harm kids, he has done nothing but love kids. My brother was not i repeate not raised by a drug addict, my mother is the most supporting loving giving mother i have ever seen. She has always done everything for her kids. That is how my brother is. I dont know if you were talking about my brother when you said disfunctional, but i felt obbligated to quote on this in case you were. I dont know if you think the gma refferd to is my mom but it is not. It is kris's mom and i will never do damage control for her, she deserves everything she gets. As far as keeping my kids away from my brother i will never do that unless there was a reason to and i do not see heart burn pills and a beer every now and then a reason to keep my kids away from my brother......hi stupidityiseverywher :)

in one post you say:
- if i knew grandma like you know grandma i would not have stuck up for her.
Granted. I am sure you know far more then i do.
- you also state that this family is not dysfunctional - to which i have to add -
that is all in the eyes of the beholder. To the world at large a family raised by a drug addict
can not be functional. They are dysfunctional, and most dysfunctional families think they are functional.

This is an investigation, grandmas profile will be investigated as will be ray's mom kris's profile.
I do not see that kris did anything right in my opinion. I do see denial, and out to lunch syndrome.
I am sure it will be found that both women were sick, and drugs do make some mean too.
I believe you that grandma is a hand full, and you don't want to to talk bad about her.
But it will come out. It must. This is an investigation.

I do respect that you are trying to do some damage control because you love your brother, your family.
I do hope you find peace and keep your children away from all of them.
love does not mean you have to accept anything that may be damaging.
I pray you find the strength to stay away from all of them. At least until there is evidence of healing,
and that takes a very long time. Your sister in law is a mess. God bless you for keeping her son.

[stupidityiseverywher]

Ok sorry i missread your statment about the trailer....as far as kris supporting her mom,,,will never happen...i agree with you that will be the best thing for gma is to get clean and rehabiliated, i also agree that ray was failed by alot of people and programs around her. That said back to my orignal question, do you still talk to your coworker, can you ask her the color of the trailer? I know every travel trailer gma has ever lived in. The way you are quoting leads me to believe you know gma and kris, is that the case?now sie, i don't get what you're saying i said about your sil or bro. I never even knew of your bro until you came onto the thread, i only stated how i interpreted the article. Period. Most people here interpreted it the same way.

As far as a red trailer, well hell, i don't know what color it was, and i certainly never said it was red. I said "read travel trailer" as in a trailer, not a trailer house.

Again, i am sorry for what your family is going through. Ray was failed by so many around her and i still don't think that her grandmother should be thrown under the bus for it. Should she be charged with something? I'm sure she should, especially if the stuff you have brought to the thread is true, but she's not the only one who failed rayanna.

As i stated before, i believe that prison is also about rehabilitation. Your sil did not lose her daughter and mother in one fell swoop. She still has her mother, and she should be thankful for it. They both need help and healing, which i think is possible in the case of both. Lets hope that gma has the support in and out of prison(should she go) that she comes out clean and responsible, but she is going to need the support of her daughter more than anyone for that to happen.

[songline]

My brother only takes a heart burn pill. He is not disfunctional, he is as normal, he has a beer every now and then but thats all my brother does. My brother has always been a good father, uncle brother and son. He has never done anything to harm kids, he has done nothing but love kids. My brother was not i repeate not raised by a drug addict, my mother is the most supporting loving giving mother i have ever seen. She has always done everything for her kids. That is how my brother is. I don't know if you were talking about my brother when you said dysfunctional, but i felt obligated to quote on this in case you were. I don't know if you think the gma refferd to is my mom but it is not. It is Kris's mom and i will never do damage control for her, she deserves everything she gets. As far as keeping my kids away from my brother i will never do that unless there was a reason to and i do not see heart burn pills and a beer every now and then a reason to keep my kids away from my brother......
THANK YOU, And I think you are doing the damage control for your brother. AS I WOULD for mine.
I understand your brother comes from a "normal" family. I understand he is a great dad and uncle,
I DO.
Kris's family is very far from that FAR! Your brother selected to be in that family.
and he too should have taken his daughter and wife and moved away. MOVED. From Gma.
Minimum 20 minute distance. I am not attacking your brother. He too should have said
this is not good for my daughter.

But I still pray that your children stay away from there.
Let your Brother come to your house, let your kids never go there. NEVER.
I hear your devotion, I hear your love, and feel your hurt. Dont get blind sided by it.
And I am screaming PLEASE keep your kids close, far from Kris's family FAR!

Justify whatever you want but keep the kids safe, FAR from anywhere that
Kris and her family would be. FAR!!!!!!

[stupidityiseverywher]

He did move them away, he moved in with me for 6 months and he prommised his wife that if she dont like it after that he would move her back home,,(mind you this is before the od's and this is the first time kris lived away from gma) well my kids and Ray did not get along because they didn't understand why Ray did the things she did or why she always lied about them to get them introuble, Then when they didnt want to play with Ray she didnt understand why and wanted to go home to gma... She used to yell and scream everyone hates me and I want to go home, Kris took that as her daughter being missrable and after 6 months took her to where she thought she would be happy. My brother has always tried to get them away from gma, but he also didnt want to loose his family, Mind you also that my brother was raised by his mother and 3 sisters so he is not gruff like a man or has the man attitude IM THE MAN OF THE HOUSE DO AS I SAY, hes not like that, But he did try alot of times to get and stay away from g ma. He moved 400 miles when he moved in with me and he also moved them 40 miles. But I dont know what it is kris always seemed to end back around her mom. I dont know if she felt sorry for her, or thought she needed to be there to help her, i Dont know I do know that she said when she called family members to do an intervention for her mom the family said it was a good idea but no one would come and help. This i believe was after the 1st od. As far as my kids the only person that ever watches my kids is my mom and thats only when I dont take them, for some reason where they could not b with me. Other then that my kids go EVERYWHERE with me. I dont even leave them if I have to run to the store, Not even with their dad. And my kids have never never been around Kris's family without me. And my brother is here at my house now along with his son.O ya I dont believe I am doing damage control for my brother because I dont think he was the cause of damage to control. Thank you for your kind words and prayersTHANK YOU, And I think you are doing the damage control for your brother. AS I WOULD for mine.
I understand your brother comes from a "normal" family. I understand he is a great dad and uncle,
I DO.
Kris's family is very far from that FAR! Your brother selected to be in that family.
and he too should have taken his daughter and wife and moved away. MOVED. From Gma.
Minimum 20 minute distance. I am not attacking your brother. He too should have said
this is not good for my daughter.

But I still pray that your children stay away from there.
Let your Brother come to your house, let your kids never go there. NEVER.
I hear your devotion, I hear your love, and feel your hurt. Dont get blind sided by it.
And I am screaming PLEASE keep your kids close, far from Kris's family FAR!

Justify whatever you want but keep the kids safe, FAR from anywhere that
Kris and her family would be. FAR!!!!!!

[songline]

He did move them away, he moved in with me for 6 months and he promised his wife that if she dont like it after that he would move her back home,,(mind you this is before the od's and this is the first time kris lived away from gma) well my kids and Ray did not get along because they didn't understand why Ray did the things she did or why she always lied about them to get them in trouble, Then when they didnt want to play with Ray she didnt understand why and wanted to go home to gma... She used to yell and scream everyone hates me and I want to go home, Kris took that as her daughter being miserable and after 6 months took her to where she thought she would be happy. My brother has always tried to get them away from gma, but he also didnt want to loose his family, Mind you also that my brother was raised by his mother and 3 sisters so he is not gruff like a man or has the man attitude IM THE MAN OF THE HOUSE DO AS I SAY, hes not like that, But he did try alot of times to get and stay away from g ma. He moved 400 miles when he moved in with me and he also moved them 40 miles. But I dont know what it is kris always seemed to end back around her mom. I dont know if she felt sorry for her, or thought she needed to be there to help her, i Dont know I do know that she said when she called family members to do an intervention for her mom the family said it was a good idea but no one would come and help. This i believe was after the 1st od. As far as my kids the only person that ever watches my kids is my mom and thats only when I dont take them, for some reason where they could not b with me. Other then that my kids go EVERYWHERE with me. I dont even leave them if I have to run to the store, Not even with their dad. And my kids have never never been around Kris's family without me. And my brother is here at my house now along with his son.O ya I dont believe I am doing damage control for my brother because I dont think he was the cause of damage to control. Thank you for your kind words and prayers

stupidityiseverywher :blowkiss:
I hope Ray is out of her misary and is now in Gods lap and peaceful. I hope you can all find peace and heal. I think your Brother will hurt for a while, may he find comfort in knowing that his daughter is home with her other Dad.

I am glad you do not let your kids near Kris's family :)
After all both Kris and Gma are still alive and Dysfunctional.
KEEP A DISTANCE...Your brother may have to leave her for good one day and then he will be fine, Don't keep sticking up for her. Just give that up.....I honor your devotion to your family, your brother. But he does not have to be Macho to keep his family away from gma, for the boys sake it is time to remove the family from her permanently. I know she is in some hospital / jail...(I am not sure where she is) But if she goes back home, None of the kids can be anywhere near her. None of them.

Find the strength to heal - you will be OK, you are a good person. :blowkiss:

[6angels]

She went threw the vomit to be sure there were no pills after going to gmas and cleaning up pills. The symptoms the first time were not set in, ray told her mom because she got scared and her mom called 911. The missprint,,, she said jay(my brother) turned her over and she was gone and that sometime that night my baby left. The exzact wording takes to long for me to right but those were the missprints. And kris called g ma to see if it was ok for ray to come get potatos, so she knew she was comming. Kris went down there after ray said gma was somad out again and there were pills everywhere. She went to check on her mom and cleaned the pills up not knowing ray already had some she cleaned them up seen that the lock was broken on the box then locked them up in her car, just for gma later that night to go down to kris's house and kris heard something outside, the gma was trying to get into kris's car to get her pills after her grandaughter just passed she was worried about getting her pills out. I know alot of you are stciking up for gma but let me tell you if you knew her you wouldb't be.
If we shouldnt be sticking up for Grandma....... THEN WHY in the WORLD would she allow her around her. UGH SEE this is why MOM is just as responable. I pegged it right away that there was a Safety agreement with the state. the MOM and the GRANDMA FAILED this beautiful child. You can't just blame Grandma when you your self say how awful Grandma is. THE MOM KNEW. SHe needs to be arrested on the fact she didnt protect her child. I have delt with DHS( CPS) My whole life as a foster child then foster mom and now adoptive mom and I can almost guarantee you the safety plan did not say ( Call grandma first to make sure she is not high then you can send your child there ALONE!!!) NO freaking way .

Pleaseee dont sell me the line it's hard bc it was her mom and child's grandma so it was to hard to keep them apart. That's BS sorry but it is. Many cut ties with their biological family in order to save their children MANY people Break the cycle of abuse and yes it's abuse when the child is neglicted. I broke the cycle this very year by adoption my sisters children. Guess what ? My sister will NEVER EVER see *her bio childen* now MY children again. NORE will their Grandma or their Grandpa. PERIOD they are not safe ppl. Grandma takes to many drugs ( given by her dr which she DONT need) and Grandpa is a evil man. Mom was a Druggie. so yes I CAN say this would never ever ever happen in my family because I stepped up and made sure it stopped. These children ( my babies!!) now never ever have to see the monsters again.

I am sorry stupidityiseverywher but stop with the excuses.............. THIS MOM FAILED the child JUST as much as Grandma did. YES MANY of us understand on this site what it is like to haev families like this and we have broken the cycles and saved the children. This mom could of also. She was either to LAZY or she didnt pay enough attention.... JMO I KNOW breaking the cycle is hard. It's a damn lonely road but If I could do it this mom could of did it also. We went from a family of 4 to 8 in a YEAR to protect these children and this mom couldnt protect ONE????????????? child??????????????????? WHy couldn't she WALK the child to Grandma's? What in the world could of been more important then making sure her child was safe???????? Let me answer that for you. NOTHING is more important then that.


YOU seem like a very loving Aunt and I command you. My heart breaks for YOU. and i pray for you EVERY night.But that won't change MO on the mom and grandma.

[6angels]

She went threw the vomit to be sure there were no pills after going to gmas and cleaning up pills. The symptoms the first time were not set in, ray told her mom because she got scared and her mom called 911. The missprint,,, she said jay(my brother) turned her over and she was gone and that sometime that night my baby left. The exzact wording takes to long for me to right but those were the missprints. And kris called g ma to see if it was ok for ray to come get potatos, so she knew she was comming. Kris went down there after ray said gma was somad out again and there were pills everywhere. She went to check on her mom and cleaned the pills up not knowing ray already had some she cleaned them up seen that the lock was broken on the box then locked them up in her car, just for gma later that night to go down to kris's house and kris heard something outside, the gma was trying to get into kris's car to get her pills after her grandaughter just passed she was worried about getting her pills out. I know alot of you are stciking up for gma but let me tell you if you knew her you wouldb't be.
Just to think...... If she would of walked down there with her in the first place this would not of happened. Oh but thats right.................... The mom is not to blame ( cough)

[6angels]

Ok but ray was a child gma was a adult. What has happend can never be changed but when you do keep the kids away from gma and she is on your door step crying and begging to b able to see the kids and saying she will go by cps order and that she will not get high when the kids are around,,,what do you do
are you kidding me? You tell her FINE go to CPS!!! Then you explain to CPS that Grandma abuses drugs. PERIOD Cps would NEVER give her unsupervised visits!! You get a restraining order on her mother(grandma) against the child thats what you do. You call the cops everytime Grandma came over crying and begging. YOU DO what you HAVE to do to protect your child NO MATTER how HARD it is.
That's what you do. YOU save your child's life. UGH NO more excuses I am sorry but this baby was failed. OH Mom could of also moved. Even if out of the same town. Get a job save up make a new life for her and her daughter. YES it would be hard but it is done every single day in USA. not all parents fail their children but this one did when she could of been saved. HELL she could of went and got advice from a battered womans shelter. She does not have to be battered to get the advice. There is a LIST of things she COULD of did but she DIDNT DO.. Your painting a horriable pic of grandma but yet MOM allowed her daughter to go over there ALONE! Knowing her grandma is .Sorry but your not helping moms case here. JMO She needs to put her big girl panties on and admitt her mistakes how she failed her daughter. I MEAN REALLY after reading what YOU have said about Grandma why in the WORLD would a mom allow CHILD that has issues go over there alone even if for just a second. UGH excuse excuse

[6angels]

stupidityiseverywher noone is blaiming your brother. From what you said he was a stand up dad and tried to keep the children away. Our beef is with MOM and Grandma. I know I come off as Harsh........ But i can't stand moms that cant protect their children....... YES IT MAY be hard at times but in this case ( the last OD) it was pretty damn simple........ Get off her butt and walk her daughter down there or better yet.......... Go get it her self.

[WhyaDuck?]

Such a sad story, and nothing that can be done to save this poor, troubled little girl now. But I do wish that they had have taken her to the doctor as a precaution when they heard she was unattended at the house with "pills all over the floor." I don't think anyone would have blamed them for reacting in this way, seeing the girl's previous events.

But whatever I wish people had have done, the girl is still dead. Very sad.

Deepest sympathies to the family, as they all will have to carry all sorts of "should'ves" for the rest of their lives.

[Oblio]

I have never, ever met anybody in your family as far as I know. This being a small community I have encountered two people who have encountered them, the girl who bought the trailer and another older woman who went to school with gma. I have no idea what color the trailer is, and well, the girl quit, conveniently enough. (Not that I ever actually worked with her, we were in completely different departments with very opposite shifts. She made the statement to me while she was working and I was in on my free time. I haven't seen her for about a week now and I don't know when I will again, as she moved to oregon.)

[wonders]

EVERYONE in Rayanna's life failed her. EVERYONE in Rayanna's life knew she was troubled. SOMEONE in Rayanna's life should have intervined BEFORE the FIRST OD. PERIOD.
Shoulda, coulda and woulda will never bring back Rayanna.
I hope that poor little Rayanna is at peace and may she rest in Gods arms.

[stupidityiseverywher]

I am not making excuses, i am stating what ive have seen and what i have been told, also answering questions that people have asked and giving them my point of view.. Congrats for saving your kids(nieces and nephews) i whish i could of saved mine.. You can rest ashure my kids will never need saving for they are not and never will b in danger. I will never allow that nor my nephew. I know how you feel, i have 2 nephews, 1 niece, my mom, my brother and 3 of my kids living with me so i know they are safe and my moms health is not good so she lives with e so i can take care of her. I have nursisng certificates so i know alot about thease legal drugs that should be illegal and health care. As far as making excuses if thats what people feel im doing then i will back out and not thread anymore. I am simply telling the truth as i know it and trying to help people get the facts instead of what you hear in the news. But i dont want to do this at all, its like reliving it everyday, im doing it for my family . It seams since i started all i have done is give people more reason to ask questions a very harsh way(not remberig that our family just had a loss, there are alot of ways to word questions without being mean) also understanding this pisses people off and i would not want people to not b pisses considering a child was lost, im just saying the questions directed at me do not have to be so mean, i am not the gma and i am not the mom. So if all i am doing is making excuses then i will stop threading and just read.if we shouldnt be sticking up for grandma....... Then why in the world would she allow her around her. Ugh see this is why mom is just as responable. I pegged it right away that there was a safety agreement with the state. The mom and the grandma failed this beautiful child. You can't just blame grandma when you your self say how awful grandma is. The mom knew. She needs to be arrested on the fact she didnt protect her child. I have delt with dhs( cps) my whole life as a foster child then foster mom and now adoptive mom and i can almost guarantee you the safety plan did not say ( call grandma first to make sure she is not high then you can send your child there alone!!!) no freaking way .

Pleaseee dont sell me the line it's hard bc it was her mom and child's grandma so it was to hard to keep them apart. That's bs sorry but it is. Many cut ties with their biological family in order to save their children many people break the cycle of abuse and yes it's abuse when the child is neglicted. I broke the cycle this very year by adoption my sisters children. Guess what ? My sister will never ever see *her bio childen* now my children again. Nore will their grandma or their grandpa. Period they are not safe ppl. Grandma takes to many drugs ( given by her dr which she dont need) and grandpa is a evil man. Mom was a druggie. So yes i can say this would never ever ever happen in my family because i stepped up and made sure it stopped. These children ( my babies!!) now never ever have to see the monsters again.

I am sorry stupidityiseverywher but stop with the excuses.............. This mom failed the child just as much as grandma did. Yes many of us understand on this site what it is like to haev families like this and we have broken the cycles and saved the children. This mom could of also. She was either to lazy or she didnt pay enough attention.... Jmo i know breaking the cycle is hard. It's a damn lonely road but if i could do it this mom could of did it also. We went from a family of 4 to 8 in a year to protect these children and this mom couldnt protect one????????????? Child??????????????????? Why couldn't she walk the child to grandma's? What in the world could of been more important then making sure her child was safe???????? Let me answer that for you. Nothing is more important then that.


You seem like a very loving aunt and i command you. My heart breaks for you. And i pray for you every night.but that won't change mo on the mom and grandma.

[stupidityiseverywher]

WOW YOU TELL ME WHAT A AUNT 9 HOURS AWAY THAT DID NOT LIVE AROUND HER EXCEPT WHEN SHE LIVED WITH ME AND DIDNT FIND OUT ABOUT THE 3 OD ATTEMPTS UNTILL IT WAS TO LATE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. i ONLY KNEW OF 1 AND HEARD THAT CPS WAS INVOLVED AND THAT THERE WAS A PLAN SO I THOUGHT IT WAS HANDELED( REMINDING YOU WHERE I LIVE CPS DONT MESS AROUND), IM NOT THERE I DONT KNOW THAT IT WAS OR WAS NOT BEING FOLLOWED BY GMA I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MOM FOLLOWED IT TO WHERE HER MEDS GOT LOCKED UP AND THE KEY GOT PU AROUND HER NECK THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPEND AND IS STILL ON HER NECK TO THIS DAY, I DID NOT KNOW RAY WAS GOING TO GMAS, LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM ONLY SAYING WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND HAVE BEEN TOLD. IF I KNEW GIVING RAY AND MY BROTHER A VOICE BECAUSE ALOT OF STUFF SAID ON HERE IS NOT TRUE WOULD TURN TO A ATTACK ON ME AND WHA T I AM SAYING I NEVER WOULD OF STARTED. I HOPE YOU NEVER GO THROUGH A LOSS LIKE THIS AND TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO KNOW THE TRUTH GOOD OR BAD AND STAND UP FOR YOUR NIECE AND FAM BECAUSE ITS NOT EASY TO DO THIS WITH ALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING IT.EVERYONE in Rayanna's life failed her. EVERYONE in Rayanna's life knew she was troubled. SOMEONE in Rayanna's life should have intervined BEFORE the FIRST OD. PERIOD.
Shoulda, coulda and woulda will never bring back Rayanna.
I hope that poor little Rayanna is at peace and may she rest in Gods arms.

[stupidityiseverywher]

As i wish the same. And you are right the what if and should haves are going to linger for ever, and i even question the what ifs my self. Thnak you for you kind wordssuch a sad story, and nothing that can be done to save this poor, troubled little girl now. But i do wish that they had have taken her to the doctor as a precaution when they heard she was unattended at the house with "pills all over the floor." i don't think anyone would have blamed them for reacting in this way, seeing the girl's previous events.

But whatever i wish people had have done, the girl is still dead. Very sad.

Deepest sympathies to the family, as they all will have to carry all sorts of "should'ves" for the rest of their lives.

[stupidityiseverywher]

I think you missread, gma wasnt threating to go to cps she was saying she would go by the cps orderare you kidding me? You tell her fine go to cps!!! Then you explain to cps that grandma abuses drugs. Period cps would never give her unsupervised visits!! You get a restraining order on her mother(grandma) against the child thats what you do. You call the cops everytime grandma came over crying and begging. You do what you have to do to protect your child no matter how hard it is.
That's what you do. You save your child's life. Ugh no more excuses i am sorry but this baby was failed. Oh mom could of also moved. Even if out of the same town. Get a job save up make a new life for her and her daughter. Yes it would be hard but it is done every single day in usa. Not all parents fail their children but this one did when she could of been saved. Hell she could of went and got advice from a battered womans shelter. She does not have to be battered to get the advice. There is a list of things she could of did but she didnt do.. Your painting a horriable pic of grandma but yet mom allowed her daughter to go over there alone! Knowing her grandma is .sorry but your not helping moms case here. Jmo she needs to put her big girl panties on and admitt her mistakes how she failed her daughter. I mean really after reading what you have said about grandma why in the world would a mom allow child that has issues go over there alone even if for just a second. Ugh excuse excuse

[OneLostGrl]

I am not making excuses, i am stating what ive have seen and what i have been told, also answering questions that people have asked and giving them my point of view.. Congrats for saving your kids(nieces and nephews) i whish i could of saved mine.. You can rest ashure my kids will never need saving for they are not and never will b in danger. I will never allow that nor my nephew. I know how you feel, i have 2 nephews, 1 niece, my mom, my brother and 3 of my kids living with me so i know they are safe and my moms health is not good so she lives with e so i can take care of her. I have nursisng certificates so i know alot about thease legal drugs that should be illegal and health care. As far as making excuses if thats what people feel im doing then i will back out and not thread anymore. I am simply telling the truth as i know it and trying to help people get the facts instead of what you hear in the news. But i dont want to do this at all, its like reliving it everyday, im doing it for my family . It seams since i started all i have done is give people more reason to ask questions a very harsh way(not remberig that our family just had a loss, there are alot of ways to word questions without being mean) also understanding this pisses people off and i would not want people to not b pisses considering a child was lost, im just saying the questions directed at me do not have to be so mean, i am not the gma and i am not the mom. So if all i am doing is making excuses then i will stop threading and just read.

I can't imagine what reading here does to you.. and then to have people question you, you must feel judged and that has got to hurt as you have done nothing wrong! What people are reacting to when speaking to you is the angry and rude comments you posted when you first began posting. You got defensive and in turn so did everyone else. I get why you were so angry, I honestly do- you turn on your computer, do a search and find all these people, these strangers taking about your family, your dead niece. I'd have gotten banned on my first post if I found people talking about my family! But I think it is important that you keep your posts, your responses in mind when you read others responses and questions to you. Everyone reacts to how they are treated.

Sometimes coming to a place like this is not a good idea for family members of victims because it keeps their pain raw, having to read and participate in the discussion on their dead family member. Looking past your anger I can see your pain in every post you write, every time you have to defend a family member, every time you have to explain things about your brothers wife side of the family. Maybe this isn't such a good place for you- maybe you should stop reading here and allow yourself to heal privately.You don't owe us anything- we have no right to know anything.

You and your family (including grandma- she is an addict not an evil person) are in my thoughts and prayers. I wish you all nothing but hope and healing! :blowkiss:

[Kat]

This post is for stupidityiseverywher. I rarely if ever post a message to a family member that comes here after the sudden loss of the life of a child. There is no particular reason why other than I, personally, do not want to add to the pain by words that could be interpreted as unkind or uncaring. I try my best to treat my interactions here with anyone the same as if the poster I am responding to were standing face to face with me.

stupidityiseverywher I have read your posts. Your pain is palpable to me through your words. I sincerely hope that peace will come to your heart eventually. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

Please read what the poster above me has written to you. Onelostgrl said very succinctly that you do not owe anyone an explanation, you do not have to answer any questions because we do not have the right to ask or know any information from you, nor do you need to defend anyone in your family to anonymous posters.

stupidityiseverywher this will probably be the only time I will speak directly to you through a post. Your anger, frustration and pain that comes through loud and clear through your posts tells me that you loved your neice. That you continue to love her and always will. Don't read anymore or answer anymore questions if this continues to upset you, I will echo again onelostgrl...please allow yourself to journey towards a place where healing can begin. My prayers are with you at this time~may angels wrap their arms around your heart.

There but for the grace of God go I.

~kat~

[6angels]

I am not making excuses, i am stating what ive have seen and what i have been told, also answering questions that people have asked and giving them my point of view.. Congrats for saving your kids(nieces and nephews) i whish i could of saved mine.. You can rest ashure my kids will never need saving for they are not and never will b in danger. I will never allow that nor my nephew. I know how you feel, i have 2 nephews, 1 niece, my mom, my brother and 3 of my kids living with me so i know they are safe and my moms health is not good so she lives with e so i can take care of her. I have nursisng certificates so i know alot about thease legal drugs that should be illegal and health care. As far as making excuses if thats what people feel im doing then i will back out and not thread anymore. I am simply telling the truth as i know it and trying to help people get the facts instead of what you hear in the news. But i dont want to do this at all, its like reliving it everyday, im doing it for my family . It seams since i started all i have done is give people more reason to ask questions a very harsh way(not remberig that our family just had a loss, there are alot of ways to word questions without being mean) also understanding this pisses people off and i would not want people to not b pisses considering a child was lost, im just saying the questions directed at me do not have to be so mean, i am not the gma and i am not the mom. So if all i am doing is making excuses then i will stop threading and just read.
I am not blaming you...... I am NOT at ALL. never once have I or would I. I am blaming the mom and grandma ( and the state) where the blame lies. They could of Could of Could of could of could of and SHOULD of Saved this child. Honey I KNOW it's hard and I'm sorry you have to be in so much pain. If I could ease your pain I WOULD. Above all above EVERYTHING. My feelings, your feelings, everyones feelings this child was failed.

[6angels]

WOW YOU TELL ME WHAT A AUNT 9 HOURS AWAY THAT DID NOT LIVE AROUND HER EXCEPT WHEN SHE LIVED WITH ME AND DIDNT FIND OUT ABOUT THE 3 OD ATTEMPTS UNTILL IT WAS TO LATE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. i ONLY KNEW OF 1 AND HEARD THAT CPS WAS INVOLVED AND THAT THERE WAS A PLAN SO I THOUGHT IT WAS HANDELED( REMINDING YOU WHERE I LIVE CPS DONT MESS AROUND), IM NOT THERE I DONT KNOW THAT IT WAS OR WAS NOT BEING FOLLOWED BY GMA I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MOM FOLLOWED IT TO WHERE HER MEDS GOT LOCKED UP AND THE KEY GOT PU AROUND HER NECK THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPEND AND IS STILL ON HER NECK TO THIS DAY, I DID NOT KNOW RAY WAS GOING TO GMAS, LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM ONLY SAYING WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND HAVE BEEN TOLD. IF I KNEW GIVING RAY AND MY BROTHER A VOICE BECAUSE ALOT OF STUFF SAID ON HERE IS NOT TRUE WOULD TURN TO A ATTACK ON ME AND WHA T I AM SAYING I NEVER WOULD OF STARTED. I HOPE YOU NEVER GO THROUGH A LOSS LIKE THIS AND TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO KNOW THE TRUTH GOOD OR BAD AND STAND UP FOR YOUR NIECE AND FAM BECAUSE ITS NOT EASY TO DO THIS WITH ALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING IT.
No its not your fault in any shape or forum unless you knew mom was still allowing her around grandma alone WHICH you didnt and I BELIEVE YOU DIDNT. so no it's not your fault AT ALL> YOU HOLD NO BLAME IN this ANGEL dieing at all. I hope you know that. I bet youw as the best auntie ever to her and brung her a lot of joy. God Bless you BUT it is moms and grandma's fault.

My anger is not to you...... it is to Grandma and mom NOT YOU at ALL. I know its not your fault just like I know it was not my fault my sister and the man of the hour abused her bio children ( now MY children)

We can't blame the extended family that had no idea she was being failed but we CAN blame the ones that knew and did nothing. I don't for one second think you failed her.

[stupidityiseverywher]

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind word, believe me it is very refreshing, also 6 angels(im thinking you have 6 kids hints the name and i like the name if thats the case) one lost girl, you guys have brighten my day, i havent been on here for 2 days my nephew has kept me running( and i enjoy every minnute of it ) but it was such a relief to see kind words from you 3 i was dreading getting on here, just for the people that has respected me on here i will keep you updated on court and what is happening, but i will no longer be answering questions, thank you everyone that has given prayer and warm thoughts for my family. Thank you all,,,rest in peace rayanna nail.this post is for stupidityiseverywher. I rarely if ever post a message to a family member that comes here after the sudden loss of the life of a child. There is no particular reason why other than i, personally, do not want to add to the pain by words that could be interpreted as unkind or uncaring. I try my best to treat my interactions here with anyone the same as if the poster i am responding to were standing face to face with me.

Stupidityiseverywher i have read your posts. Your pain is palpable to me through your words. I sincerely hope that peace will come to your heart eventually. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

Please read what the poster above me has written to you. Onelostgrl said very succinctly that you do not owe anyone an explanation, you do not have to answer any questions because we do not have the right to ask or know any information from you, nor do you need to defend anyone in your family to anonymous posters.

Stupidityiseverywher this will probably be the only time i will speak directly to you through a post. Your anger, frustration and pain that comes through loud and clear through your posts tells me that you loved your neice. That you continue to love her and always will. Don't read anymore or answer anymore questions if this continues to upset you, i will echo again onelostgrl...please allow yourself to journey towards a place where healing can begin. My prayers are with you at this time~may angels wrap their arms around your heart.

There but for the grace of god go i.

~kat~

[STEADFAST]

"A Klamath woman will go to trial on suspicion of causing her granddaughter’s overdose death last month.
Judge William Follett ruled Tuesday that there was sufficient evidence to try Terry Lane, 51, in the July 31 death of Rayanna Nail, 10.
Lane will face charges of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment with two enhancements of causing great bodily injury and causing great bodily injury or death.
Del Norte District Attorney Mike Riese said the enhancements pertain to the child endangerment charge, alleging that Lane had “put the child in such a surrounding that you (Lane) caused this child to suffer prior to her death. ”



Much more at link, plus photos:
http://www.triplicate.com/20090827106801/News/Local-News/Grandmother-to-stand-trial

[Oblio]

http://www.triplicate.com/20090827106801/News/Local-News/Grandmother-to-stand-trial

More details... according to this article Rayanna was diagnosed with both ADD and Bipolar disorders. She'd been off meds for both two months prior to her death.

[Oblio]

Thanks, I think we practically jinxed eachother, eh?

[STEADFAST]

Thanks, I think we practically jinxed eachother, eh?

We did! You owe me a coke.

[Salem]

WHEN IT COMES TO KIDS BEING HURT JUST LIKE EVERYONE EALSE I SUSPECT TILL THERE ARE FACTS, THE PHONE CALL I SEEN THE RECORED I CAN SPEAK OF THAT AND KNOW ITS A FACT, THE VOMIT I SEEN THE PAN THE NEXT MORNING AND ALTHOUGH RINSED OUT IT WAS IN RAYS ROOM PLUS THERE WAS VOMIT ALL OVER HER MATTRESS THAT THE POLICE TOOK. DID SHE INSPECT THE VOMIT I BELIEVE SHE DID. UNLESS SOMETHING COMES UP FOR ME NOT TO, TO ME THATS JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST COMES OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD TO SAY UNLESS YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT AND I THINK IF YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE IT, AS FAR AS THE POCKETS, I BELIEVE SHE CHECKED THEM AFTER CLEANING UP THE PILLS AT GMAS BECAUSE THEN SHE KNEW THAT THERE WERE ILLS LYING AROUND AND RAY WAS NOT LYING ABOUT IT, BUT FOR THAT I WAS NOT THERE. AT 2:30 AM WHEN RAY STARTED GETTING SICK THERE WERE NO POCKETS TO GO THREW. SO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN GOING TO GMAS AROUND 7-7:15 PM AND 2:30 AM RAY TOOK PILLS. i BELIEVE SHE HID THEM AND TOOK THEM AROUND BED TIME BECAUSE IT TAKES PILLS 45-1 HR TO KICK IN AND THEY STAYED UP LATE PLAYING CARDS, SO I BELIEVE SHE TOOK THEM BETWEEN 11PM AND 12 AM THEN SHE STARTED TO GET SICK. aS FAR AS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS, WHEN PEOPLE ASK THEM THE WAY YOU DID I HAVE NO PROBLEM ANSWERING, IT WAS A REFRESHING CHANGE FROM THE WAY I HAVE BEEN BEING ASKED. THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART FOR THE PRAYERS. GOD BLESS

Thank you. I apologize for asking such sensitive questions. I know this is a difficult time. Your response indicates to me that you have every reason to trust what your sister-in-law has told you.

I'm thinking there is much more to this story with Grandma, especially after reading the latest news that was posted by Steadfast.

My are with your family and little Ray. May the angels teach her how to fly high and soar in the skies!

Salem

[STEADFAST]

Some points the defense and judge made:

"[Defense attorney]McElfresh also suggested that because Detective Barber testified he did not search Rayanna’s room, “she could have been hoarding it (medications) — we just don’t know.”

Nail [Mom]said Rayanna had been taking Avillify and Tegretol psychotropic medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and a bipolar disorder since she was 4 1/2 years old.

“She had been off of her medication for two months before her death,” said Nail.

[Judge] Follett asked if McElfresh or the witnesses knew the specific drug which caused Rayanna’s death.

“No one knows,” said McElfresh.

“You could have waited for a complete tox-screen,” said Follett, noting that McElfresh pushed to begin pre-trial before the toxicology results were in.

More at link:
http://www.triplicate.com/20090827106801/News/Local-News/Grandmother-to-stand-trial

[shgrbkr]

Suppose I'm working on my car in my garage. I go inside to use the bathroom. I live by myself--no kids come into my house. Suppose also that while I am inside my house for, say, 3 to 5 minutes, some kid comes into my garage and drinks out of an open container of antifreeze. Am I guilty when this child dies? Just asking--

[Cicada]

"A Klamath woman will go to trial on suspicion of causing her granddaughter’s overdose death last month.
Judge William Follett ruled Tuesday that there was sufficient evidence to try Terry Lane, 51, in the July 31 death of Rayanna Nail, 10.
Lane will face charges of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment with two enhancements of causing great bodily injury and causing great bodily injury or death.
Del Norte District Attorney Mike Riese said the enhancements pertain to the child endangerment charge, alleging that Lane had “put the child in such a surrounding that you (Lane) caused this child to suffer prior to her death. ”



Much more at link, plus photos:
http://www.triplicate.com/20090827106801/News/Local-News/Grandmother-to-stand-trial


Am I missing something here?


"....Rayanna had been sent to Lane’s home to get potatoes for dinner at around 7:40 p.m. ..." "...Rayanna arrived back with the potatoes at around 8 p.m...." 20 minutes to go 2 spaces over?

"....At 8 p.m., Rayanna complained her back was itching, which was unusual, Nail said. Shortly thereafter, Nail said she went to Lane’s trailer to “take her dinner and there were pills everywhere.....”

"....At 9 p.m., Rayanna began “complaining of being really tired,” Nail said. At 2:30 a.m. July 31, “Rayanna said she was going to throw up, so I got her a pan,” Nail said.

Nail said she inspected Rayanna’s vomit for pills, due to her daughter’s previous overdose at Lane’s house last Dec. 29.

After finding no pills, Nail said she gave Rayanna “one Tylenol and she went to bed.”..."

Did none of this set off any alarms?? Long before 2:30am...and why would the 2:30am incident not give a red alert, no matter what was or wasn't found in her vomit? It took until 9:30 the next morning for it to register that maybe this child, who had OD'd before, might have gotten into the pills that were scattered, the 20 minutes she was there to pick up potatoes?



{green is mine}

[Thrs0806]

Am I missing something here?


"....Rayanna had been sent to Lane’s home to get potatoes for dinner at around 7:40 p.m. ..." "...Rayanna arrived back with the potatoes at around 8 p.m...." 20 minutes to go 2 spaces over?

"....At 8 p.m., Rayanna complained her back was itching, which was unusual, Nail said. Shortly thereafter, Nail said she went to Lane’s trailer to “take her dinner and there were pills everywhere.....”

"....At 9 p.m., Rayanna began “complaining of being really tired,” Nail said. At 2:30 a.m. July 31, “Rayanna said she was going to throw up, so I got her a pan,” Nail said.

Nail said she inspected Rayanna’s vomit for pills, due to her daughter’s previous overdose at Lane’s house last Dec. 29.

After finding no pills, Nail said she gave Rayanna “one Tylenol and she went to bed.”..."

Did none of this set off any alarms?? Long before 2:30am...and why would the 2:30am incident not give a red alert, no matter what was or wasn't found in her vomit? It took until 9:30 the next morning for it to register that maybe this child, who had OD'd before, might have gotten into the pills that were scattered, the 20 minutes she was there to pick up potatoes?



{green is mine}

ITA! All kinds of alarms were going off for me also while I read that.

First to Stupidityiseverywher - Thank you for coming here and sharing your personal knowledge of this case with us. You let me see this case in a different light. May thoughts and prayers are with your Family.

Do not take my words (and others) as a personal assault on you. You come across as a loving Aunt, Sister & Mother. The internet is going to be tough for you to read since you are so close to this tragedy.

Cicada & Forum:

There are big problems with Mom's story here and I DO think that she should be charged.

If this was my Daughter, and with a history of taking GM"s pills, somewhere beween the "Itching at 8" and the "Very Tired at 9" there would have been a call to the Doctor!! At 2:30, if not there already, we would have been at the ER!

I'm still torn about whether GM should be charged in this but I definately think that Mom is at least guilty of Negect! Yes, she called GM before she sent her over but that doesn't mean her responsiblity ended there!!!:furious:

[OneLostGrl]

Some points the defense and judge made:

"[Defense attorney]McElfresh also suggested that because Detective Barber testified he did not search Rayanna’s room, “she could have been hoarding it (medications) — we just don’t know.”

Nail [Mom]said Rayanna had been taking Avillify and Tegretol psychotropic medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and a bipolar disorder since she was 4 1/2 years old.

“She had been off of her medication for two months before her death,” said Nail.

[Judge] Follett asked if McElfresh or the witnesses knew the specific drug which caused Rayanna’s death.

“No one knows,” said McElfresh.

“You could have waited for a complete tox-screen,” said Follett, noting that McElfresh pushed to begin pre-trial before the toxicology results were in.

More at link:
http://www.triplicate.com/20090827106801/News/Local-News/Grandmother-to-stand-trial


I wonder why she was off her meds for 2 months! Two months!?!

[Cicada]

I wonder why she was off her meds for 2 months! Two months!?!

I know the doctor takes my nephew off his during the summer. Then he starts taking them again a week before school begins again. Don't ask me why because I don't understand it.

[OneLostGrl]

I know the doctor takes my nephew off his during the summer. Then he starts taking them again a week before school begins again. Don't ask me why because I don't understand it.

The ADD medicine, I can see that but not Bipolar medicine. Treatment for Bipolar is 24,7,365, summer, spring, winter, fall..until the day you die. I wonder if she was having problems with the dosing or side effects or whatever with her mood stabalizer. I cannot help but wonder, (now with this new info) if she was having difficulty with side effects (they don't always recommend these types of meds for children as they can cause suicidal ideations) or if she was improperly weaned from her meds causing this land slide.