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crystalsleuth
08-12-2009, 08:34 AM
Continue here for all TLM discussions so these can be found easily for future reference.

CrystalSleuth

matou
08-12-2009, 08:59 AM
Here is the link to TLMs Tagged profile and a possible insight into her life through her journal entry/rap song lyrics at the bottom of the main page.

link: http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

matou
08-12-2009, 09:52 AM
Here is an article with info about TMLs childhood in Mactier. It highlights traumatic events such as being assaulted by her mother in public, supposedly having an eating disorder, amongst other issues, Take this for what it's worth. Lots of info.

Link: http://www.bracebridgeexaminer.com/article/136841

antiquegirl
08-12-2009, 10:50 AM
TERRI-LYNNE McC. (b. June 2, 1990)
74 Wilson St.
Woodstock

- Born in Woodstock to a stripper mother
- Taken in by Carol and Rob McC. shortly after birth
- Adopted by them at approximate 9 months of age
- Troubled life – in and out of foster homes and detention centres (fighting, aggression) for past 5 yrs.
- Rumoured to have stabbed a little girl (North Bay?)
- Rumoured to have been sexually assaulted at age 4/5
- Rumoured to have had eating disorder
- Rumoured to have beaten mother CM and charged
- Moved around a lot
- Lived and attended school in MacTier, ON (Joseph St.)
- Played on hockey team in Parry Sound (foster home?)
- Returned to Woodstock approx. 2006
- Reportedly babysat for nieces/nephews & 1 local Woodstock resident
- Purportedly met MTR Jan./Feb. 2009

RUMOURED PLACES OF DETENTION/REHABILITATION

Cecil Facer Youth Ctr. (Sudbury)

http://communities.mysudbury.ca/Sites/Cecil%20Facer%20Youth%20Centre/default.aspx

Craigwood Youth Services (Ailsa Craig/London)

http://www.craigwood.on.ca/about_us/about_us.htm

KNOWN ARRESTS - 2009


April 12th, 2009 - possible charge - “Breach of Probation”

May 19th, 2009 – re-arrested, charges – “Abduction” & “Accessory After the Fact” (Victoria Stafford case)

May 28th, 2009 – charges upgraded – “Unlawful Confinement” & “1st Degree Murder"(Victoria Stafford case)


COURT APPEARANCES – VS CASE

May 28, 2009
June 23, 2009
August 12, 2009
October 1, 2009

TAGGED PROFILE

http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

MOTHER – Carol-Lynn McC. (nee Sandford)
(Approx. age 50 - 55)
(former stripper – used name “Virginia” and/or “Breese”)

- adopted TLM at approx. 9 mos. of age
- family in Strathoy and Brampton
- alcoholic?
- crack addict?
- allegedly beat TLM – once in public
- Intestinal Cancer – prognosis = 3-6 mos. to live (as of May 2009)
- 125 OxyContin a month for pain – 2/day + 2/before bed
- 34-year-old daughter and 31-year-old son who live in Brampton
- 5 grandkids
- did not like MTR

FATHER – Rob McC.
(Age 42 – long-distance trucker)

- not TLM’s biological father
- put his name on birth certificate to facilitate adoption
- split up with CM when TLM was about 3 yrs. old
- last saw TLM approx. 2002/2003
- court ordered to pay about $400 child support
- has not heard from her in 12 years
- now lives in Smiths Falls

PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER – Nancy McC.
- lives in Woodstock

RELEVANT MEDIA LINKS

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090520.tori21/BNStory/National

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:8__DpCbmJyYJ:www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/637404+rob+mcclintic+father&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

http://video.winnipegsun.com/video/sunshine-girl/winnipeg-sunshine-girl-challenge/23285157001/amateur-sleuths-help-police-in-stafford-case/23978134001

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=1612290&sponsor=

http://www.thespec.com/article/570217

http://www.parrysound.com/press/1243435091/

http://www.huntsvilleforester.com/print_article/136824

elepher50
08-12-2009, 05:05 PM
A couple of screen shots for those interested in what was on TLM's fb account prior to it being taken down.

Alison
08-12-2009, 06:54 PM
It is fact that she served juvie time at cecil.

roseofsharon
08-13-2009, 09:48 AM
In previous posts, it has been said that TLM would not have been smart enough to pull off a set up, but I'm not so sure about that. She may not be academically smart, but she is street smart. Just MOO

roseofsharon
08-13-2009, 09:55 AM
A couple of screen shots for those interested in what was on TLM's fb account prior to it being taken down.

These pic's are very disturbing. I think this girl is capable of anything. You can see the hatred in her eyes.

antiquegirl
08-13-2009, 12:33 PM
This has to do with previous speculation that TLM and/or MTR were on LE’s radar from early on in the investigation:

Since it’s a fact that all calls to and from jail are monitored by the system,


IF LE had seriously suspected TLM of this crime prior to May 15,


Wouldn’t it make sense that all her calls would have been traced by LE?
Wouldn’t it make sense that every person she was in contact with would be contacted by LE in their search for an accomplice? (They would be able to get all name/address info from their phone numbers)


IF TLM was in regular touch with MTR via phone calls (as DC said and why would she lie?) and LE had traced her calls,


Wouldn’t they have interviewed him extensively along with everyone else TLM was in contact with?
Wouldn’t it be reasonable that LE would put him under surveillance as soon as they ID’d him?
Wouldn’t LE have all pertinent info on MTR’s car as soon as they ID’d him?


IMO, the answer to all these questions is “yes”. This leads me to conclude that:


TLM was only one of many suspects until very close to May 15th
Therefore, MTR was not a suspect until very close to May 15th either
Therefore, the early tips from the neighbours (and supposedly TM) about TLM were just part of many others and were not taken seriously enough to warrant a trace of her phone calls
Therefore, something came to light on, or shortly before, May 15th that led LE to interview him that night


That “something” was likely the neighbours calling in his plate.

"The Honda Civic was recently seized by the police and "was not part of the information we had prior to the arrest of the suspect (Rafferty)," explained Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland, spokesperson for the investigative team."

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ScJiFMambfEJ:news.therecord.com/printArticle/542585+was+not+part+of+the+information+we+had+prio r+to+the+arrest+of+the+suspect+(Rafferty)&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

MOO

gardenia
08-13-2009, 01:25 PM
In previous posts, it has been said that TLM would not have been smart enough to pull off a set up, but I'm not so sure about that. She may not be academically smart, but she is street smart. Just MOO

i agree that TLM would have some street smarts, but does that mean she could have planned the abduction & whatever the intended outcome was? she seems like someone who is following an order of sorts - this did seem premeditated in that she was spotted walking her dogs around the school - so it wasn't something she did impulsively. there had to be a plan.

i believe that there is someone else out there who is part of this - and TLM was coerced into this to some degree (not that she isn't totally responsible for the outcome!). i also think it is possible that MTR was set up as the fall guy. perhaps not a popular opinion ... but JMO!

elepher50
08-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Just putting screenshots that I have kept out here for reference:

Enchanting_eyes
08-13-2009, 06:36 PM
i agree that TLM would have some street smarts, but does that mean she could have planned the abduction & whatever the intended outcome was? she seems like someone who is following an order of sorts - this did seem premeditated in that she was spotted walking her dogs around the school - so it wasn't something she did impulsively. there had to be a plan.

i believe that there is someone else out there who is part of this - and TLM was coerced into this to some degree (not that she isn't totally responsible for the outcome!). i also think it is possible that MTR was set up as the fall guy. perhaps not a popular opinion ... but JMO!


You know I am kinda of thinking even though she would have some street smarts, and I think that is a bit of an understatement considering her background. I just don't think she planned this herself, and I don't think it was a spur of the moment thing, I think that Victoria dying was unexpected and was not suppose to happen.

That is just my opinion however.


E*E

CentralAlberta
08-13-2009, 06:54 PM
You know I am kinda of thinking even though she would have some street smarts, and I think that is a bit of an understatement considering her background. I just don't think she planned this herself, and I don't think it was a spur of the moment thing, I think that Victoria dying was unexpected and was not suppose to happen.

That is just my opinion however.


E*E

I agree. I think this is a young girl looking for love and attention. Maybe she got involved with someone and THEY put her up to this with many promises made about their life together once she is out of prison. (That is IF she is convicted.) This is Canada after all. Our penal system doesn't seem to take sentences very seriously and most offenders seem to be released sooner than later. It would be interesting to know, what, exactly she was up to from April 8 to the time of her arrest.

How many other TLM's and young boys, are there out there, that would commit heinous crimes for some love and attention? Unfortunately, I think we will see more and more of them as the years go on. MOO :(

CA

gardenia
08-13-2009, 06:57 PM
i really don't see TLM doing anything on her own - i mean, unless it was completely unplanned & spontaneous (like stabbing someone). this was planned & she may have just been one part of the plan - that is certainly how she wants it to look now. she wants us to believe that she is doing this for 'a guy' (namely MTR) but i feel pretty sure she didn't randomly choose tori. this was a direct hit on a direct target - and there is way way way too much bad stuff milling around TM and JG for this not to be about THEM! and i don't know if there is any link between MTR and TM & JG (besides going to the same gym?).

i feel sure that TLM is not telling the whole truth (to LE) about what has happened because she does not want to implicate herself any further or bring any other parties into this - for whatever reason. she was really into all that gang stuff, so she is definitely a follower - but of whom?!

girl_next_door
08-14-2009, 01:37 AM
and i don't know if there is any link between MTR and TM & JG (besides going to the same gym?).


they went to the same gym?!

antiquegirl
08-14-2009, 08:21 AM
they went to the same gym?!

No, we don't know that for sure. TM had posted on FB that she had worked at three different gyms in Woodstock at various times in the past. We don't know when or even if it's true. We have heard that (possibly) MTR was arrested at, or coming out of, a Woodstock gym. We DO NOT KNOW which gym MTR went to. This is speculation only!

gardenia
08-14-2009, 09:51 AM
No, we don't know that for sure. TM had posted on FB that she had worked at three different gyms in Woodstock at various times in the past. We don't know when or even if it's true. We have heard that (possibly) MTR was arrested at, or coming out of, a Woodstock gym. We DO NOT KNOW which gym MTR went to. This is speculation only!

agreed - as i said, we don't know of any link between MTR & TM/JG ... the gym thing sounded pretty weak/loose anyway.

so could this abduction (etc) have been TLM's own idea & way of seeking revenge on TM/JG? if the answer is 'yes' then i still can't imagine that TLM ever imagined it going as far as it did. she may have wanted to scare TM/JG & that's it.

i think this is why people have said they don't really see TLM as being that smart to plan something this big out. sure, she could have done part A of a plan but that is about it.

so, in my opinion, this situation either A) got out of control for TLM or B) there is someone else who put her up to this plan in its entirety.

Jenny44
08-14-2009, 10:15 AM
Here is the link to TLMs Tagged profile and a possible insight into her life through her journal entry/rap song lyrics at the bottom of the main page.

link: http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

Wow... I follow this case all the time but I have never read her profile (just saw the pics for some reason).

So she claims to be Bi and likes true crime....

Perhaps she and MR discussed Bernardo & Homoka and thats how this whole thing started. Sick!

sillybilly
08-14-2009, 02:03 PM
No, we don't know that for sure. TM had posted on FB that she had worked at three different gyms in Woodstock at various times in the past. We don't know when or even if it's true. We have heard that (possibly) MTR was arrested at, or coming out of, a Woodstock gym. We DO NOT KNOW which gym MTR went to. This is speculation only!

With only 36,000 population, and Goodlife Fitness having 2 locations, anyone know how many other gyms there are in Woodstock?

matou
08-14-2009, 02:48 PM
I know I'm gonna get slammed for this one but here is info from a facebook page r.e. an interview of one of TLM's friends (K Hurst) by a woman who many find to be very manipulative in her quest for information (she purportedly wants to write a book on the case). The friend has also stated that she may have lied about what she had to say. A poster named Dilbert gave us the link to this page a while ago. It is post #42 on the page.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=101248670810&topic=9284&start=30&hash=7aea8c4e0b15ff1ba29e30ebc3bc2018#topic_top

scotslass
08-14-2009, 04:12 PM
I know I'm gonna get slammed for this one but here is info from a facebook page r.e. an interview of one of TLM's friends (K Hurst) by a woman who many find to be very manipulative in her quest for information (she purportedly wants to write a book on the case). The friend has also stated that she may have lied about what she had to say. A poster named Dilbert gave us the link to this page a while ago. It is post #42 on the page.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=101248670810&topic=9284&start=30&hash=7aea8c4e0b15ff1ba29e30ebc3bc2018#topic_top

No slamming but the sources are as you know are sketchy at best :) Kayla was reported to definitely exist ( a friend of Carol & TLM), is a known addict and I believe was reported to have been with Carol when the press approached her (can't remember what video, city?? CTV?? one of them) I personally think KH would have said anything for the money she was promised. Is this interview still posted online? As for the interviewer(DH) and her accomplice(RSmart) well i best not report my opinion of those two :)

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/ef/9a/e117320543d38cf22edb8e26c283.jpeg

antiquegirl
08-14-2009, 04:43 PM
No slamming but the sources are as you know are sketchy at best :) Kayla was reported to definitely exist ( a friend of Carol & TLM), is a known addict and I believe was reported to have been with Carol when the press approached her (can't remember what video, city?? CTV?? one of them) I personally think KH would have said anything for the money she was promised. Is this interview still posted online? As for the interviewer(DH) and her accomplice(RSmart) well i best not report my opinion of those two :)



(BBM)

KH definitely exists. She's pictured here with CM, a reporter and a photographer.

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/ef/9a/e117320543d38cf22edb8e26c283.jpeg

This is her Facebook profile:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:dZOwQV222sEJ:www.facebook.com/Kay2Hot666+kayla+hurst&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

ETA: Sorry, SL - we were obviously looking for this pic at the same time. :)

scotslass
08-14-2009, 06:00 PM
I know I'm gonna get slammed for this one but here is info from a facebook page r.e. an interview of one of TLM's friends (K Hurst) by a woman who many find to be very manipulative in her quest for information (she purportedly wants to write a book on the case). The friend has also stated that she may have lied about what she had to say. A poster named Dilbert gave us the link to this page a while ago. It is post #42 on the page.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=101248670810&topic=9284&start=30&hash=7aea8c4e0b15ff1ba29e30ebc3bc2018#topic_top


I can't believe I'm going to post this but..... despite my earlier post where i said she would say anything one thing she did say which could be true or have some truth to it was the part about the shoes. She said TLM told her they took them to a field and they found Tori's shoes. Well the day after that field search Police went to TM's home and requested shoes and a tooth from TM & JG.. still could be made up but i'm wondering if she would have been that prepared for this so called interview. She didn't sound it :) Hmmmmm

Link to the article detailing the search the day before and the requests for shoes Tori had worn.

http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/22/9533256-sun.html

antiquegirl
08-14-2009, 06:28 PM
I can't believe I'm going to post this but..... despite my earlier post where i said she would say anything one thing she did say which could be true or have some truth to it was the part about the shoes. She said TLM told her they took them to a field and they found Tori's shoes. Well the day after that field search Police went to TM's home and requested shoes and a tooth from TM & JG.. still could be made up but i'm wondering if she would have been that prepared for this so called interview. She didn't sound it :) Hmmmmm

Link to the article detailing the search the day before and the requests for shoes Tori had worn.

http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/22/9533256-sun.html

(BBM)

I'm not clear on a few things. When did Kayla say this and to whom? When did TLM tell Kayla this? Who are "they"? Who are "them"?

Am I to understand that Kayla told this story before this article appeared? Do you mean that TLM told KH (after her arrest) about LE finding Tori's shoes during one of the searches she went on with LE?

If I understand this sequence of events correctly, then yes, the connection makes sense.

TIA

scotslass
08-14-2009, 06:47 PM
(BBM)

I'm not clear on a few things. When did Kayla say this and to whom? When did TLM tell Kayla this? Who are "they"? Who are "them"?

Am I to understand that Kayla told this story before this article appeared? Do you mean that TLM told KH (after her arrest) about LE finding Tori's shoes during one of the searches she went on with LE?

If I understand this sequence of events correctly, then yes, the connection makes sense.

TIA

Kayla said this during her telephone interview with DH. I'm not sure of the date this was recorded on, it was online in july but think you have to now request it from DH. Someone else may recall the dates. I personally believe it would have been after this article but the article does not claim they found shoes just they then requested a pair from TM after the day after LE searched the fields with TLM. Kayla has claimed to have talked to TLM after her arrest. Does anyone here have a copy of this interview? it was long and not all of it is transcribed onto the posted FB entry. Here is an excerpt of that post (not sure if this is allowed, if not i'm sure it will be promptly deleted, hope it is not against TOS)

"Diane asking about if the cops have Victoria's clothes and Terri-Lynnes jacket. Kayla says that the cops told her that they have Victoria's shoes which they found where Terri-Lynne lead the police to. Diane says Victoria had boots on in the video. Kayla said the cops said shoes "running shoes that were in the field"

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=101248670810&topic=9284&start=30&hash=7aea8c4e0b15ff1ba29e30ebc3bc2018#topic_top

Hope that helps, sorry multi tasking here :)

antiquegirl
08-14-2009, 07:50 PM
Kayla said this during her telephone interview with DH. I'm not sure of the date this was recorded on, it was online in july but think you have to now request it from DH. Someone else may recall the dates. I personally believe it would have been after this article but the article does not claim they found shoes just they then requested a pair from TM after the day after LE searched the fields with TLM. Kayla has claimed to have talked to TLM after her arrest. Does anyone here have a copy of this interview? it was long and not all of it is transcribed onto the posted FB entry. Here is an excerpt of that post (not sure if this is allowed, if not i'm sure it will be promptly deleted, hope it is not against TOS)

"Diane asking about if the cops have Victoria's clothes and Terri-Lynnes jacket. Kayla says that the cops told her that they have Victoria's shoes which they found where Terri-Lynne lead the police to. Diane says Victoria had boots on in the video. Kayla said the cops said shoes "running shoes that were in the field"

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=101248670810&topic=9284&start=30&hash=7aea8c4e0b15ff1ba29e30ebc3bc2018#topic_top

Hope that helps, sorry multi tasking here :)

Thanks, scotslass. I do have the transcript (such as it is) of the interview, but you're right, there's no way to tell when it took place.

Okay, so if I have this right, we have to believe that:

KH actually talked to TLM after her arrest


TLM actually told KH about finding a pair of shoes


TLM was telling the truth about finding the shoes


The shoes found were actually Tori's


KH was telling the truth about this whole thing

I'm not saying it isn't true, but that's a lot of "ifs". If KH told this story before the media account, it's far more believable than if she did afterward. KWIM?

I also wonder why, if LE thought those were Tori's shoes they found, they wouldn't just ask TM to identify them. Why would they need another pair of her shoes? All that might prove is that they are the same size, which isn't much.

MOO

puppyraiser
08-14-2009, 08:11 PM
Maybe they were wanting to compare the wear pattern on the soles of the shoes supposedly found and a pair known to belong to Tori?

scotslass
08-14-2009, 08:19 PM
Thanks, scotslass. I do have the transcript (such as it is) of the interview, but you're right, there's no way to tell when it took place.

Okay, so if I have this right, we have to believe that:

KH actually talked to TLM after her arrest


TLM actually told KH about finding a pair of shoes


TLM was telling the truth about finding the shoes


The shoes found were actually Tori's


KH was telling the truth about this whole thing

I'm not saying it isn't true, but that's a lot of "ifs". If KH told this story before the media account, it's far more believable than if she did afterward. KWIM?

I also wonder why, if LE thought those were Tori's shoes they found, they wouldn't just ask TM to identify them. Why would they need another pair of her shoes? All that might prove is that they are the same size, which isn't much.

MOO

Yeah i believe the whole interview to be far fetched, hence why i said i believe she would have said anything for the cash promised. I was just pointing out that this is the only part that possibly could have a grain of truth to it. As for why LE wouldn't ask Tm to identify the shoes I have know idea but perhaps they wanted to make sure they did belong to TS and had the molds of her feet from another pair to use as evidence (and also back TLm's claims). Oh and KH claimed it was LE who told her about the shoes, which also has me puzzled. I'm not putting any faith in KH's claims at this point, but will admit she COULD (i say this lightly) have been telling the truth about the shoes being found in the field. FWIW i do believe KH would have spoke to TLM after her arrest (breach) as they were supposedly best friends we know she was calling MR so why not her BF?? what i find skeptical is that they would have discussed any of the events that supposedly transpired that day. I also find it hard to believe Le would have leaked the info on the shoes kwim.. So I'm with you on the actual interview being a load of BS she supposedly sounded out of it but she may always sound that way I have no idea. Guess i was only being my own devil's advocate so that i could say I considered it :)

antiquegirl
08-14-2009, 08:35 PM
Maybe they were wanting to compare the wear pattern on the soles of the shoes supposedly found and a pair known to belong to Tori?

That's possible, but it would depend on the ages of both pairs of shoes and the material and texture of the soles. The wear pattern on a one-week-old pair wouldn't compare well with one that had been worn often for several months. A lot of variables there. Also, kids grow out of shoes so quickly that I wonder just how much wear pattern there would be.

At the time of this seizure by LE of Tori's shoes, someone suggested another reason and I can't remember what it was. Something to do with DNA (perspiration?) being more prominent in shoes, maybe?

nonfictionrocks
08-14-2009, 11:22 PM
Does anyone know if CM has resurfaced - was she in the court the day of TLM's video appearance. Why do they keep rescheduling court dates - will the one in October finally have TLM enter a plea?

antiquegirl
08-14-2009, 11:34 PM
Does anyone know if CM has resurfaced - was she in the court the day of TLM's video appearance. Why do they keep rescheduling court dates - will the one in October finally have TLM enter a plea?

I don't know about CM, but I hope she's all right. She may be with family out of town.

This is what izzy45 said about all the court dates:

"Coming to court is a way to for their counsel to gather any additional disclosure and get future dates for court appearances. They may set up a crown resolution meeting (not held in court), a pretrial (held in front of a judge) or a preliminary hearing (also in front of a judge)." (BBM)

I'm taking from this that as more disclosure comes in (or is requested by the defense attorneys), they need to get it in court each time with appearances by the accused. It's possible that there will be several more of these before we get any useful information or even a plea. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this.)

ChaChaCha
08-15-2009, 12:25 AM
Does anyone know if CM has resurfaced - was she in the court the day of TLM's video appearance. Why do they keep rescheduling court dates - will the one in October finally have TLM enter a plea?

The previous photo of CM with the chickie-poo - what is in Carol's back pocket? Is it a cell phone?

crystalsleuth
08-15-2009, 10:02 AM
The previous photo of CM with the chickie-poo - what is in Carol's back pocket? Is it a cell phone?

Looks like cigarettes to me...Players maybe. I had a BIL who smoked them which makes me think that is what is in her pocket.

antiquegirl
08-15-2009, 02:17 PM
Looks like cigarettes to me...Players maybe. I had a BIL who smoked them which makes me think that is what is in her pocket.

Also looks like Craven "M"s.

girl_next_door
08-15-2009, 03:10 PM
Can people in the FB London, ON network see KH's profile?

maxfactor
08-15-2009, 03:27 PM
Can people in the FB London, ON network see KH's profile?
no, she has her security set high now so that only her friends can see her profile.

nonfictionrocks
08-15-2009, 11:13 PM
I looked back through some of the newspaper articles (Toronto Star) and noticed that the sleuthing neighbours said that CM told them 10 days after Tori went missing that TLM and MR went to London and disgarded clothing - does this mean that she told them "10 days after the abduction" or "10 days after the abduction TLM and MR went to London"? I realize that LE picked TLM up on April 12th - do we know for sure that she never was released since that date?

antiquegirl
08-15-2009, 11:58 PM
I looked back through some of the newspaper articles (Toronto Star) and noticed that the sleuthing neighbours said that CM told them 10 days after Tori went missing that TLM and MR went to London and disgarded clothing - does this mean that she told them "10 days after the abduction" or "10 days after the abduction TLM and MR went to London"? I realize that LE picked TLM up on April 12th - do we know for sure that she never was released since that date?

This is the exact quote:

"About 10 days after Tori went missing, Carol McClintic told Jessica that her daughter and her boyfriend had gone to London to dispose of some clothes."

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/637399

I definitely interpret the wording here to mean that CM told them 10 days after Tori went missing. This is why syntax is so important. If it were the other meaning, it should have been written:

"Carol McClintic told Jessica that her daughter and her boyfriend had gone to London about 10 days after Tori went missing to dispose of some clothes."

We have heard nothing about TLM having been released from jail at any time after her initial arrest on April 12th.

"Her daughter was already in custody, and had been, for several weeks, apparently for breach of probation violations."

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/637399

Kamille
08-16-2009, 09:04 AM
Not sure how a conversation between the neighbours and CM would come up regarding clothes 10 days after the abduction. Is it possible that the neighbours asked CM if TLM's white coat was still in the house after her arrest and CM told them she hadn't seen it and that TLM and MR had disposed of some clothes in London? Could she have told them this just to get them off her back? Maybe they were asking if they could come in and look for it.

It's an odd comment for sure and if it's true, it shows that CM wasn't trying to hide anything regarding her daughter's possible involvement. If she just made it up then she might have been trying to mess with the neighbours because they were bothering her by sending them on a hunt to London just for kicks. It's really hard to know what mindset CM was in on a daily basis and how much she may have been aware of the situation going on around her.

antiquegirl
08-16-2009, 11:02 AM
Not sure how a conversation between the neighbours and CM would come up regarding clothes 10 days after the abduction. Is it possible that the neighbours asked CM if TLM's white coat was still in the house after her arrest and CM told them she hadn't seen it and that TLM and MR had disposed of some clothes in London? Could she have told them this just to get them off her back? Maybe they were asking if they could come in and look for it.

It's an odd comment for sure and if it's true, it shows that CM wasn't trying to hide anything regarding her daughter's possible involvement. If she just made it up then she might have been trying to mess with the neighbours because they were bothering her by sending them on a hunt to London just for kicks. It's really hard to know what mindset CM was in on a daily basis and how much she may have been aware of the situation going on around her.

These excerpts from the media also cast suspicion on Carol's claim that TLM got rid of the jacket:

"Goris said he saw McClintic a few days after the abduction, just before she was arrested on outstanding warrants, and noticed her hair had been cut. He also learned there was a white puffy jacket in the apartment that had been dyed pink."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9530446.html

TLM only had four days to get rid of the jacket. If the above story is true and JG saw the jacket "a few days after the abduction, just before she was arrested", either CM's statement, or the neighbours', becomes less reliable.

And then there is this one:

"Another resident of Fyfe Avenue, Dave Palmer, said he was driving by McClintic's home the day police picked her up. He stopped to watch."

"She was carrying a white puffy jacket in her arms. It looked a little pinkish."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/23/9545321-sun.html

So, according to Mr. Palmer, TLM still had the jacket when she was arrested.

This just shows that we can't take a lot of what's been said as written in stone. So many conflicting reports!

MOO

matou
08-16-2009, 11:16 AM
Whether TLM got rid of her coat or "some clothes", Carol places MR and TLM together again before TLM was arrested. Most likely they used the same car and, if it is to be believed, were in London together. It is strange that Carol would say that they were getting rid of clothes and not feel apprehensive about it, meaning I don't think she believed that her daughter would be part of an abduction plan.

These excerpts from the media also cast suspicion on Carol's claim that TLM got rid of the jacket:

"Goris said he saw McClintic a few days after the abduction, just before she was arrested on outstanding warrants, and noticed her hair had been cut. He also learned there was a white puffy jacket in the apartment that had been dyed pink."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9530446.html

TLM only had four days to get rid of the jacket. If the above story is true and JG saw the jacket "a few days after the abduction, just before she was arrested", either CM's statement, or the neighbours', becomes less reliable.

And then there is this one:

"Another resident of Fyfe Avenue, Dave Palmer, said he was driving by McClintic's home the day police picked her up. He stopped to watch."

"She was carrying a white puffy jacket in her arms. It looked a little pinkish."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/23/9545321-sun.html

So, according to Mr. Palmer, TLM still had the jacket when she was arrested.

This just shows that we can't take a lot of what's been said as written in stone. So many conflicting reports!

MOO

nonfictionrocks
08-16-2009, 11:56 AM
Is anyone here having problems with some of the other threads?

antiquegirl
08-16-2009, 12:13 PM
Is anyone here having problems with some of the other threads?

Not me. What kind of problems?

nonfictionrocks
08-16-2009, 12:31 PM
Not me. What kind of problems?

I am logged in (with remember me checked) and when I access the bolded threads (except this one) the updates are not showing up and the dates are wrong (for example it says Today 11:15 pm) and I am no longer logged on these threads - I thought maybe it was a problem with the site but I will re-boot my system since no one else is experiencing this problem.

bleedingheart
08-16-2009, 09:20 PM
With only 36,000 population, and Goodlife Fitness having 2 locations, anyone know how many other gyms there are in Woodstock?
there is the 2 Goodlife gyms, one is co-ed the other female only.
There is also a mens "Key" gym on main street that has no instructors, I was told you have a key to get in there and use the equipment on your own. The only other gym I know about for women is "Curves".
Mebe there are more, but I have not heard of them.JMO

nobodyzgirl
08-17-2009, 11:27 AM
Does anyone know if CM has resurfaced - was she in the court the day of TLM's video appearance. Why do they keep rescheduling court dates - will the one in October finally have TLM enter a plea?

the court date in October, will likely be remanded again, I doubt you will see any type of plea for awhile. It is pretty standard procedure for numerous court dates getting remanded and nothing really happening.

Turbododger
08-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Thanks, scotslass. I do have the transcript (such as it is) of the interview, but you're right, there's no way to tell when it took place.


Okay, so if I have this right, we have to believe that:

KH actually talked to TLM after her arrest


TLM actually told KH about finding a pair of shoes


TLM was telling the truth about finding the shoes


The shoes found were actually Tori's


KH was telling the truth about this whole thing
I'm not saying it isn't true, but that's a lot of "ifs". If KH told this story before the media account, it's far more believable than if she did afterward. KWIM?

I also wonder why, if LE thought those were Tori's shoes they found, they wouldn't just ask TM to identify them. Why would they need another pair of her shoes? All that might prove is that they are the same size, which isn't much.

MOO

I am not very knowledgable on DNA analysis, but perhaps LE wanted another pair of shoes to analyze the "sweat" etc. and the tooth for the DNA analysis, to compare Tori's known shoes to the purported "found shoes"?

luckyme1972
09-03-2009, 03:14 PM
I'v been away from SW for awhile and I'm wondering if there is any friends or family on here of TLM??

mareseatoats
09-03-2009, 09:43 PM
none that I am aware of

luckyme1972
09-03-2009, 10:24 PM
none that I am aware of

Ok thank you

jhulford
09-04-2009, 01:24 AM
It really makes you wonder why both McClintic women tried so hard to implicate TLM. :)

The cut hair. TLM must have had really long hair, because her hair seems to be long enough, that if the braids and bun were let down, her hair would be at least to her shoulder blades. These are the arrest pictures, I'm talking about, one months growth, since the bubble gum cut wouldn't be that much would it?

bleedingheart
09-04-2009, 09:57 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/2rqf0aa.jpg Another of TLM's writings.

antiquegirl
09-04-2009, 10:16 AM
It really makes you wonder why both McClintic women tried so hard to implicate TLM. :)

The cut hair. TLM must have had really long hair, because her hair seems to be long enough, that if the braids and bun were let down, her hair would be at least to her shoulder blades. These are the arrest pictures, I'm talking about, one months growth, since the bubble gum cut wouldn't be that much would it?

(BBM)

Sorry, JH, but I don't understand the bolded part. Could you please elaborate? TIA

antiquegirl
09-04-2009, 10:19 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/2rqf0aa.jpg Another of TLM's writings.

Thanks, BH. We've seen this a while back. Man, it's SO hard to read! How much of this is her own composition and how much is cribbed from a rap song? I think we discussed this one time. Either way, this girl is terribly messed up. MOO

bleedingheart
09-04-2009, 12:25 PM
Kayla said this during her telephone interview with DH. I'm not sure of the date this was recorded on, it was online in july but think you have to now request it from DH. Someone else may recall the dates. I personally believe it would have been after this article but the article does not claim they found shoes just they then requested a pair from TM after the day after LE searched the fields with TLM. Kayla has claimed to have talked to TLM after her arrest. Does anyone here have a copy of this interview? it was long and not all of it is transcribed onto the posted FB entry. Here is an excerpt of that post (not sure if this is allowed, if not i'm sure it will be promptly deleted, hope it is not against TOS)

"Diane asking about if the cops have Victoria's clothes and Terri-Lynnes jacket. Kayla says that the cops told her that they have Victoria's shoes which they found where Terri-Lynne lead the police to. Diane says Victoria had boots on in the video. Kayla said the cops said shoes "running shoes that were in the field"

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=101248670810&topic=9284&start=30&hash=7aea8c4e0b15ff1ba29e30ebc3bc2018#topic_top

Hope that helps, sorry multi tasking here :)
July 15th was the interview with KH and Dianne H from a "People Search or Find " site in BC Canada.This woman is said to be a trouble maker on FB sites.(rumor of course) Apparently it was aired live into FB, by this DH, and was quite disturbing to those who heard it.(true). After the interview DH promptly closed the site she was using for this interview.

bleedingheart
09-04-2009, 12:37 PM
(BBM)

Sorry, JH, but I don't understand the bolded part. Could you please elaborate? TIA
wondering now who the TWO McClintic women are, if TLM is one of them and Carol is the other ?????????????????????????????

jhulford
09-04-2009, 10:13 PM
(BBM)

Sorry, JH, but I don't understand the bolded part. Could you please elaborate? TIA

Both Carol and TLM blathered on about the white coat disposal, the walking of the dog(s) past the school and who knows what else .. you'd think that if they had anything to hide, especially a missing child that they could both get lengthy prison terms for, they would keep a little quieter. :)

I suppose you could say that they were collectively stupid. But I don't think that's true. It's the law of the jungle in juvie facilities and Carol had a pretty rough life, I'm sure she wouldn't have lasted as long as she has without some smarts.

Maybe, they felt comfortable with the sleuthy neighbours, but I don't think they be discussing white coats with JG.

Edit:

"Goris said he saw McClintic a few days after the abduction, just before she was arrested on outstanding warrants, and noticed her hair had been cut. He also learned there was a white puffy jacket in the apartment that had been dyed pink."

Ok, someone had told him, other than the McC women.

jhulford
09-04-2009, 10:16 PM
Thanks, BH. We've seen this a while back. Man, it's SO hard to read! How much of this is her own composition and how much is cribbed from a rap song? I think we discussed this one time. Either way, this girl is terribly messed up. MOO

The funny part about this is, if she'd hadn't got involved in this awful thing, in a couple of years she would've married and had a child of her own. Then looking back at the writings of angsty youth, would've found them pretty cringe-worthy, you know?

jhulford
09-04-2009, 10:17 PM
wondering now who the TWO McClintic women are, if TLM is one of them and Carol is the other ?????????????????????????????

Carol McClintic and TL McClintic. :) Two women.

jhulford
09-04-2009, 10:19 PM
July 15th was the interview with KH and Dianne H from a "People Search or Find " site in BC Canada.This woman is said to be a trouble maker on FB sites.(rumor of course) Apparently it was aired live into FB, by this DH, and was quite disturbing to those who heard it.(true). After the interview DH promptly closed the site she was using for this interview.

Man! I love it if someone had that interview saved out somewhere, or had a transcript. Anyone? :D

bleedingheart
09-04-2009, 10:38 PM
Both Carol and TLM blathered on about the white coat disposal, the walking of the dog(s) past the school and who knows what else .. you'd think that if they had anything to hide, especially a missing child that they could both get lengthy prison terms for, they would keep a little quieter. :)

I suppose you could say that they were collectively stupid. But I don't think that's true. It's the law of the jungle in juvie facilities and Carol had a pretty rough life, I'm sure she wouldn't have lasted as long as she has without some smarts.

Maybe, they felt comfortable with the sleuthy neighbours, but I don't think they be discussing white coats with JG.

Edit:



Ok, someone had told him, other than the McC women.
Thank you jhulford for your explanation

antiquegirl
09-04-2009, 11:06 PM
Carol McClintic and TL McClintic. :) Two women.

But, but, but ... you wrote: "It really makes you wonder why both McClintic women tried so hard to implicate TLM."

This makes it sound as if TLM tried to implicate herself. Didn't you mean Carol and Tara?

I'm so confused. :confused:

antiquegirl
09-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Both Carol and TLM blathered on about the white coat disposal, the walking of the dog(s) past the school and who knows what else .. you'd think that if they had anything to hide, especially a missing child that they could both get lengthy prison terms for, they would keep a little quieter. :)

I suppose you could say that they were collectively stupid. But I don't think that's true. It's the law of the jungle in juvie facilities and Carol had a pretty rough life, I'm sure she wouldn't have lasted as long as she has without some smarts.

Maybe, they felt comfortable with the sleuthy neighbours, but I don't think they be discussing white coats with JG.

Edit:



Ok, someone had told him, other than the McC women.

Alright, I understand now. You were talking about TLM implicating herself.

I don't believe that Carol knew what TLM had done. Even the white coat doesn't mean much because so many women had them - TM and SL, to just name two. But why TLM herself yapped so much, I can only guess ... drugs? They do tend to loosen lips, don't they? I suppose that could apply to CM, too, and her alcohol abuse.

MOO

antiquegirl
09-04-2009, 11:21 PM
The funny part about this is, if she'd hadn't got involved in this awful thing, in a couple of years she would've married and had a child of her own. Then looking back at the writings of angsty youth, would've found them pretty cringe-worthy, you know?

Do you really think so? I don't. I think TLM was headed for a very troubled life, even if this had not happened. She may have had kids, but I think she would have gone on to do and write stuff even more cringe-worthy than this. I doubt she'd have ever become the average June Cleaver or Harriet Nelson. Heheh. ;)

MOO

jhulford
09-04-2009, 11:53 PM
But, but, but ... you wrote: "It really makes you wonder why both McClintic women tried so hard to implicate TLM."

This makes it sound as if TLM tried to implicate herself. Didn't you mean Carol and Tara?

I'm so confused. :confused:

Arggh, I see what you mean .. I worded it badly, I meant that Carol and TLM were so loose lipped that TLM became an instant suspect .. :D :bang:

jhulford
09-05-2009, 12:03 AM
Do you really think so? I don't. I think TLM was headed for a very troubled life, even if this had not happened. She may have had kids, but I think she would have gone on to do and write stuff even more cringe-worthy than this. I doubt she'd have ever become the average June Cleaver or Harriet Nelson. Heheh. ;)

MOO

Heheh, even June and Harriet may have had a troubled youth, but they're transcenders, Baby. :D

When I look at that kids (TLM) picture, I don't see what she became, just a kid that had potential at one time, and may have pulled her self out of the spiral she was obviously in. R,MOO (Respectfully, My Opinion Only) :D

I confess, I did work with youth that were in worse spins than she was before this happened, and most of them are law abiding parents and grandparents, now (I'm older than the hills). It does happen.

Mind you, none of them were involved in kidnapping or murdering anyone, just very troubled.

antiquegirl
09-05-2009, 12:39 AM
Heheh, even June and Harriet may have had a troubled youth, but they're transcenders, Baby. :D

When I look at that kids (TLM) picture, I don't see what she became, just a kid that had potential at one time, and may have pulled her self out of the spiral she was obviously in. R,MOO (Respectfully, My Opinion Only) :D

I confess, I did work with youth that were in worse spins than she was before this happened, and most of them are law abiding parents and grandparents, now (I'm older than the hills). It does happen.

Mind you, none of them were involved in kidnapping or murdering anyone, just very troubled.

I bow to your experience and higher knowledge about these matters. Guess I'm just a cynic in my old age.

When my firstborn was just a toddler (before I had the others), my husband and I decided to volunteer our home as an "emergency shelter" for the CAS. The deal was that we would have them anywhere from a few days to a couple of weeks until foster homes were found for them. We opted for teenage girls, but ended up with a baby boy one time. All of the girls came from troubled backgrounds and all smoked, drank, got into fights at school, and who knows what else. Most of them stole something from us when they left.

The last girl we had was so great that we didn't want to give her up. "B" was 15 and stayed with us for three months. We would have kept her forever, except for one incident. One night she didn't come home and we had to call LE. The next afternoon, I found her huddled on the porch and she claimed that she had been sexually assaulted by a couple of boys. We called LE back and they found out she had lied about the rape to cover herself. So, we grounded her for two weeks. Well, she had a big date with a guy coming up, so instead of complying with the grounding, she chose to go back and live with her abusive father and alternately with her alcoholic mother.

Many years later when she was an adult, I ran into her accidentally and we became friendly for a few years. She still called me "Mom". She managed to get a couple of decent jobs, but took up with a coke-addict boyfriend and had a son with him. After she kicked the bum out, she continued to live with her son in his parents' basement apartment. I visited her several times over a few years and was pretty dismayed at her life choices (she did some drugs herself) and the way she treated her boy. We then lost touch again.

This is my limited experience with troubled girls and I guess it's what made me so cynical. I will never stop wondering how differently "B" might have turned out if she had stayed in our family.

jhulford
09-05-2009, 01:20 AM
My heart aches for 'B', I wish she had chosen differently, and stayed with your family.

Yes, smoking, drinking, lying, thieving .. is all part of dealing with these kids, unfortunately.

I don't want to get into swapping war stories, because this is TLM's little section, but I had a client similar to your 'B', who was so messed up that she wanted to kill herself and her baby while she was pregnant with him, she was in such despair. Drugs, alcohol, you name it. She ultimately chose differently though. Today, she teaches at the University level and her son is a grown man.

Don't worry, I'm a bit of a cynic too, but I do try to look at all the angles. :blowkiss:

ChaChaCha
09-05-2009, 10:00 AM
I get it - sometimes you can help troubled youth, other times it is beyond repair. Last year we took in a good friend's granddaughter who had an upbringing very similar to TLM's. Her mother had been a stripper when she was younger, and had her daughter (father unknown) at a young age. During the stripper years, the mother began using and dealing, and now that she is older and cannot "work" she supports herself by dealing. The girl was raised during her earlier years by her grandmother, who unfortunately lost custody of her granddaughter by the time she was three.

The girl (now 23!) has been raised with a "stripper mentality" and although she is sweet, she lives the lifestyle - not working, using, hanging with a rough crowd and choosing abusive boyfriends. We took her to try to get her out of her environment. It didn't work. Not by a long shot. My family and I went to the mat for that girl, and after a few months she decided to move back home. Which was a relief at the time since her lifestyle was disruptive and she had a very self-indulgent attitude which led her back to using and her abusive boyfriend.

Even though this was a bright and beautiful young woman, I do not believe that she will ever become successful - her mother keeps her "down" if you know what I mean by always enabling her and using her for what she can get. It is a sick cycle.

Nature vs nurture... lovely girl, nurtured by an addict mother...I don't think my friend's daughter will ever shake the lifestyle, nor will she ever make a real effort to move on. It is what she knows.

bleedingheart
09-05-2009, 12:19 PM
Arggh, I see what you mean .. I worded it badly, I meant that Carol and TLM were so loose lipped that TLM became an instant suspect .. :D :bang:
Geezzzzzzzzzzz, jhulford~~~~~If I was confused before I really am confused now........ha!ha!Ha!!!! ~~~~Keep up the great sleuthing, I cannot wait for the next episode.
(just having a lighter moment, no harm intended as you know)

bleedingheart
09-12-2009, 07:10 PM
http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

I hope you have not seen this one. This is the $~TAG~$ profile of TLM.

jhulford
09-13-2009, 12:02 AM
Yes, I've seen dat site. She's in full wigger mode, fo real, hehehe Ya' know what I'm sayin'? :D

http://www.joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp

The 'U only got 0n3 ShOt - 0n3 TyMe' can also refer to love/ personal relationships. ie: you've only got one shot, one time, so make it good. :)

The whole 'song' is the usual adolescent tripe, AFAIC

Feelings of powerlessness, need for respect, revenge on those who 'dis you, crabbing about other girls .. etc., etc.

Compare with 2Pac:

Until the end of time (remix)

Perhaps I was addicted to the dark side
Somewhere inside my childhood witnessed my heart die
And even though we both came from the same places
The money and the fame made us all change places
How could it be - through the misery that came to pass
The hard times made a true friend afraid to ask - for currency
But you could run to me when you need me and I'll never leave
I just need, someone to believe in, as you can see
It's a small thang to a true, what could I do?
Real homies help you get through
And come to knew he'd do the same thang if he could
Cause in the hood true homies make you feel good
And half the times we be actin up call the cops
Bringin a cease to the peace that was on my block
It never stop, when my mama ask me will I change
I tell her yeah, but it's clear I'll always be the same
Until the end of time

Although many little white girls feel all the same angst and feeling of helplessness, persecution and rage none of them are ghetto enough to get their gripes published. :D I personally don't think the attempts at thug-life style writing had anything to do with the crime she's accused of, I think it's just a style of thinking and speaking/ writing she picked up in juvie, and uses it to communicate her feeling and maintain some 'cred'. MOO, of course.

flipflop
09-13-2009, 09:48 AM
http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

I hope you have not seen this one. This is the $~TAG~$ profile of TLM.

I figured they would have taken all her accounts off the internet, (facebook etc) but the one that you posted the link to has her friends posting comments on her wall just 20 days ago.

bleedingheart
09-13-2009, 05:12 PM
I figured they would have taken all her accounts off the internet, (facebook etc) but the one that you posted the link to has her friends posting comments on her wall just 20 days ago.
I have had that link for a while.
I should have warned people of the foul language being used and to read at your own risk!!!! Someone should save it so it does not dissapear also. I would if I could but I have no idea how.The articles I thought I had saved have dissapeared over time, much to my regret.

bleedingheart
09-14-2009, 10:29 PM
Yes, I've seen dat site. She's in full wigger mode, fo real, hehehe Ya' know what I'm sayin'? :D

http://www.joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp

The 'U only got 0n3 ShOt - 0n3 TyMe' can also refer to love/ personal relationships. ie: you've only got one shot, one time, so make it good. :)

The whole 'song' is the usual adolescent tripe, AFAIC

Feelings of powerlessness, need for respect, revenge on those who 'dis you, crabbing about other girls .. etc., etc.

Compare with 2Pac:

Until the end of time (remix)



Although many little white girls feel all the same angst and feeling of helplessness, persecution and rage none of them are ghetto enough to get their gripes published. :D I personally don't think the attempts at thug-life style writing had anything to do with the crime she's accused of, I think it's just a style of thinking and speaking/ writing she picked up in juvie, and uses it to communicate her feeling and maintain some 'cred'. MOO, of course.
Thank goodness I do not have to listen to that nonsense in my house.I hear that rap rapping from cars going down the street sometimes, and I think~~O M G , thank goodness my children are adults now

flipflop
09-30-2009, 04:51 PM
TLM has a court date tomorrow (Oct 1st) any ideas what will happen at this one?

ChaChaCha
09-30-2009, 08:33 PM
TLM has a court date tomorrow (Oct 1st) any ideas what will happen at this one?

I don't think they will be breaking out the frying pan and cooking oil... likely just put the case over until they have had a bit longer to review the disclosure. TLM's lawyer is a very busy gal... did you want to take bets whether she just sends a junior in her place?

OT a bit, there has been quite a flurry lately of Ontario lawyers asking for 2/3 of their regular rates to represent Legal Aid clients in murder cases. We have a local case where three lawyers have applied for an increased rate for each of their client's cases... no decision as yet, but it makes me wonder if perhaps both TLM's and MR's lawyers have quietly done the same thing?

nobodyzgirl
10-01-2009, 08:41 AM
I don't think they will be breaking out the frying pan and cooking oil... likely just put the case over until they have had a bit longer to review the disclosure. TLM's lawyer is a very busy gal... did you want to take bets whether she just sends a junior in her place?

OT a bit, there has been quite a flurry lately of Ontario lawyers asking for 2/3 of their regular rates to represent Legal Aid clients in murder cases. We have a local case where three lawyers have applied for an increased rate for each of their client's cases... no decision as yet, but it makes me wonder if perhaps both TLM's and MR's lawyers have quietly done the same thing?

Like you, Cha, I think it will be another remand. Then again, I thought the same was going to happen with MR, and look what happened there, they set up a pre-trial meeting, so who knows. I think TLM's lawyer will be there today, just for the publicity and to speak to the media.

As for the Legal Aid, it wouldn't surprise me if most lawyers that do a lot of legal aid, have applied for an increase in their rates, though, TLM's lawyer seems to keep herself pretty busy and no doubt they are also likely hoping with all the media attention, it will bring in more paying clients in the future (of course that will depend on the type of representation they give during this upcoming trial). This is just MOO.

OT, don't have much to follow these days, now that I'm just waiting for the closing arguments to commence on the biker trial, so I'll be keeping my eyes peeled on the internet this morning/afternoon to see what transpires from the court hearing today.

nobodyzgirl
10-01-2009, 11:15 AM
Teen Charged in Tori Stafford Murder in CourtA 19-year-old charged with kidnapping and murdering Tori Stafford made her first court appearance in more than a month and a half this morning.

Terri-Lynne McClintic appeared via video link before a judge in Woodstock and was remanded in custody. Her next court date is scheduled for November 27th, 2009.

Her lawyer is still reviewing a large volume of evidence.

The other suspect in the case, Michael Rafferty, appeared in court last week

One of Rafferty's lawyers, Scott Reid set a couple of future dates in the case.

On October 8th, a judicial pre-trial meeting has been set. Reid describes what that entails "It's essentially a meeting between defence counsel, crown counsel and a judge. Talks about various issues, most notably, how long we estimate a preliminary hearing will take."

Rafferty will make another video court appearance on October 16th.

Reid wouldn't comment on the status of his client, only saying "Mr. Rafferty is anxious to get to a trial as soon as he can."


http://www.am980.ca/home/News/GeneralNewsDetail/tabid/967/Default.aspx?id=10227

ChaChaCha
10-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Like you, Cha, I think it will be another remand. Then again, I thought the same was going to happen with MR, and look what happened there, they set up a pre-trial meeting, so who knows. I think TLM's lawyer will be there today, just for the publicity and to speak to the media.

As for the Legal Aid, it wouldn't surprise me if most lawyers that do a lot of legal aid, have applied for an increase in their rates, though, TLM's lawyer seems to keep herself pretty busy and no doubt they are also likely hoping with all the media attention, it will bring in more paying clients in the future (of course that will depend on the type of representation they give during this upcoming trial). This is just MOO.

OT, don't have much to follow these days, now that I'm just waiting for the closing arguments to commence on the biker trial, so I'll be keeping my eyes peeled on the internet this morning/afternoon to see what transpires from the court hearing today.

Interesting - did I read the news release correctly that TLM's lawyer was still receiving disclosure (a hard drive full???) so it has been put off... but MR's lawyers have gone right to a pre-trial?

Where are the gurus? What does everyone think this means in terms of pleas, etc.

As for TLM's lawyer receiving lots of publicity, it could be good or bad for her - depending upon how she represents her client. Of course, I don't think it will make her very popular with the locals...

nonfictionrocks
10-07-2009, 11:40 PM
I don't think they will be breaking out the frying pan and cooking oil... likely just put the case over until they have had a bit longer to review the disclosure. TLM's lawyer is a very busy gal... did you want to take bets whether she just sends a junior in her place?

OT a bit, there has been quite a flurry lately of Ontario lawyers asking for 2/3 of their regular rates to represent Legal Aid clients in murder cases. We have a local case where three lawyers have applied for an increased rate for each of their client's cases... no decision as yet, but it makes me wonder if perhaps both TLM's and MR's lawyers have quietly done the same thing?

Cha, please keep us informed to these updates if you can. did you see the youtube video with the kid resisting arrest at a Toronto school - some yo-yo mentioned a lawyer that is quite willing to take on these "waste of court" time cases. No disrepsect to you, but I vote that we pay $12.50 per hour (legal aid) for his defense lawyer, not a huge wage but certainly the lawyer can make it up for lost wages in pure volume! LOL

nurse_sleuth
10-10-2009, 08:26 AM
Interesting - did I read the news release correctly that TLM's lawyer was still receiving disclosure (a hard drive full???) so it has been put off... but MR's lawyers have gone right to a pre-trial?

Where are the gurus? What does everyone think this means in terms of pleas, etc.

As for TLM's lawyer receiving lots of publicity, it could be good or bad for her - depending upon how she represents her client. Of course, I don't think it will make her very popular with the locals...

Neither of them have received full disclosure.

dilbert
10-17-2009, 05:46 PM
anyone know if Terri-Lynn is having a tough time in jail? is her mail missing? is she receiving death threats and being harassed by prison guards?

or is she just tougher than MR and not complaining?

just curious.

flipflop
04-03-2010, 09:46 PM
Here is a link about another court case with Jeanine LeRoy, (lawyer for TLM)

Autopsies couldn't determine causes of death or if they'd been live births or stillbirths
Yesterday, the 33-year-old London mother of four with no criminal record, pleaded guilty to three charges of offering an indignity to a dead body.
In the "unusual" case, Ontario Court Justice John Skowronski decided Sinn needed support more than jail and sentenced her to three years of probation.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/04/01/13431811.html#/news/london/2010/04/01/pf-13431811.html

antiquegirl
04-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Here is a link about another court case with Jeanine LeRoy, (lawyer for TLM)

Autopsies couldn't determine causes of death or if they'd been live births or stillbirths
Yesterday, the 33-year-old London mother of four with no criminal record, pleaded guilty to three charges of offering an indignity to a dead body.
In the "unusual" case, Ontario Court Justice John Skowronski decided Sinn needed support more than jail and sentenced her to three years of probation.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/04/01/13431811.html#/news/london/2010/04/01/pf-13431811.html

It's not my place to post an opinion on the verdict reached in this case, so I'll keep it to myself.

Somewhat off-topic: I have just finished reading (coincidentally) two fictional books, both about abducted and murdered girls. The authors seem to do their research. The one that struck home is where the child had been buried for three months and no cause of death could be determined by the autopsy. It was written that unless there had been damage to the bones from a gunshot, stabbing, or blunt force, all soft tissue was gone and no evidence remained that would lead to a determination of e.g. sexual assault, poisoning, strangulation, etc. Suffocation (I read) was impossible to determine after this length of time.

Unless I'm mistaken, a buried body remains intact longer than one left out in the elements. So, if this book is to be believed, it's quite possible that a cause of death for Tori may never be determined. There is the chance that the writer was mistaken and that if she was drugged, toxicology tests may be able to find traces in bones, but I don't know. If bones were fractured, there is another chance.

The question remains that if the autopsies are inconclusive, will a judge take the word of one of the accused as to cause of death and how will this all affect the verdicts? While I recognize that anyone proven to be responsible for the abduction will be equally guilty of murder, it still concerns me that these trials may become a "he said/she said" situation and get tossed out due to lack of physical evidence.

JMO

flipflop
04-04-2010, 10:27 AM
It's not my place to post an opinion on the verdict reached in this case, so I'll keep it to myself.

Somewhat off-topic: I have just finished reading (coincidentally) two fictional books, both about abducted and murdered girls. The authors seem to do their research. The one that struck home is where the child had been buried for three months and no cause of death could be determined by the autopsy. It was written that unless there had been damage to the bones from a gunshot, stabbing, or blunt force, all soft tissue was gone and no evidence remained that would lead to a determination of e.g. sexual assault, poisoning, strangulation, etc. Suffocation (I read) was impossible to determine after this length of time.

Unless I'm mistaken, a buried body remains intact longer than one left out in the elements. So, if this book is to be believed, it's quite possible that a cause of death for Tori may never be determined. There is the chance that the writer was mistaken and that if she was drugged, toxicology tests may be able to find traces in bones, but I don't know. If bones were fractured, there is another chance.

The question remains that if the autopsies are inconclusive, will a judge take the word of one of the accused as to cause of death and how will this all affect the verdicts? While I recognize that anyone proven to be responsible for the abduction will be equally guilty of murder, it still concerns me that these trials may become a "he said/she said" situation and get tossed out due to lack of physical evidence.

JMO

My thoughts exactly. That is why I posted the link regarding this other case. No cause of death was found and she got 3 yrs probation. I am hoping and praying that they have alot more evidence to go on in VS's case.

TLM is back in court April 16th.