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s1rebecca
08-22-2009, 11:12 AM
I don't think that GA understands half of what he is being asked. Like when the prosecution was trying to ascertain if he believed that Padilla was safeguarding his "asset" (KC) or not...He just didn't seem to get it??? Anyone else get that impression? I think that his failure to understand certain words is what got him so hot-under-the-collar about MM's reference to "remains" as well. Someone seems to have taken the time to explain that word to him for this hearing...

MOO

I think GA knew exactly what she was asking but was intentionally playing dumb. In my eyes he didn't do himself any favors.

Trapshooter
08-22-2009, 11:12 AM
I am totally confused on this thread!!!!

I don't understand why Tony is saying these things about Leonard. Yes, we have all had our differing opinions on LP but to blatantly say he is "quite the liar" and "this was a publicity stunt for LP" is beyond my comprehension. LP is Tony's uncle right?

Then he goes on to say "After Casey went back to jail there was never a reason to return for a Caylee memorial with that reverand nut. He should have left things alone." Is he referring to RG, Jesse's dad?

I know there are many lovers/haters of LP on this board but I sure wasn't aware that his own nephew had such harsh feelings for his uncle.

affinity
08-22-2009, 11:17 AM
Couldn't see, what, if anything kc said...she was swallowed up by a gigantic bear. Positioning is purposeful. The bigger the better...must hide kc.

Cindy look disappointed when she looked at he daughter...did you see her eyes give kc the once over?...up an down. She did not approve of her appearance...With Cindy, it is all about appearance.

The "once over" was that when KC first files in? I didn't see the once over either--because the big attorney guy blocks my view.

JBean
08-22-2009, 11:24 AM
I took your questions about virus alerts and made a new thread in the appropriate area. Thanks to those of you that asked about it:
Virus Alerts? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

jon_burrows
08-22-2009, 11:34 AM
I am totally confused on this thread!!!!

I don't understand why Tony is saying these things about Leonard. Yes, we have all had our differing opinions on LP but to blatantly say he is "quite the liar" and "this was a publicity stunt for LP" is beyond my comprehension. LP is Tony's uncle right?

Then he goes on to say "After Casey went back to jail there was never a reason to return for a Caylee memorial with that reverand nut. He should have left things alone." Is he referring to RG, Jesse's dad?

I know there are many lovers/haters of LP on this board but I sure wasn't aware that his own nephew had such harsh feelings for his uncle.

I've thought from the beginning they should have never interjected themselves into this case. LE was in the middle of an investigation and they were not privy to the mountain of evidence against Casey. That's just my opinion and it's history now but I really wish for the sake of the case and justice for Caylee, LP/TP and anyone else associated with them would stop doing interviews. They could be handing the defense useless fodder to be used during trial to deflect from the facts.

Lexington
08-22-2009, 11:38 AM
I never joined up - but it was something like $5. IIRC, there was some sort of stink about it and TP purportedly refunded all of the money. Does anybody else remember this?

What I remember about this is that it was a little more expensive to join, something like $9.98 and it was RD who made an announcement (I think at J Blanchard Park) that they would close the site and refund all the money. I don't know whether the money was refunded or not.

affinity
08-22-2009, 11:42 AM
I have watched the filing in and filing out several times each and I see no "I love you" from Cindy. And of course I can't see the front of KC's face when she is acknowledging her big fullback attorney...but she isn't looking at her parents when she files in.

The reason I bring this up is that CA has a penchant for saying things about things that happen in full view of thousands of people and "revising" it to be her version. CA says the reason KC cries is because she hasn't seen her Dad in a long time. That's what CA thinks...I think KC might have cried because she saw that Caylee button on George's shirt and she thinks GA loves Caylee more than her--and that's always been the problem...not to mention KC's concern might be over whatever GA says on the stand keeping her exactly where she is.

zoomom
08-22-2009, 12:02 PM
Very true. I can see that G and C can be very charming and C likes to be nurturing.Remember the protestor that was screaming in C's face and C was telling her to calm down,watch her blood pressure,etc.
I'm tired of bashing the A's,but I hope they'll do the right thing for Caylee before this is over.G's testimony yesterday didn't give me much hope.
It makes me want to see the States depos with him even more now.He told the SA her question was not relevent ,in court ,in front of the Judge!
I don't understand why their attorney doesn't tell them YOU CAN'T DO THAT!

Speaking of BC - where was he yesterday? Shouldn't he have been there? If only for moral support?

MissJames
08-22-2009, 12:05 PM
Speaking of BC - where was he yesterday? Shouldn't he have been there? If only for moral support?

Other Clients?

Lexington
08-22-2009, 12:06 PM
Everything that Cindy said after the hearing was fiction. That Casey looks "healthy" is ridiculous - Casey looks like death warmed over. That Casey cried because she hadn't seen her father in a long time - I watched the video several times and I never saw a tear come out of Casey's eyes. Cindy also threw in a statement that Casey sobbed - WTF. That Cindy said "I love you" to Casey and Casey replied the same back - I never saw anything even close to this - Casey looked at neither Cindy nor George on the way in or out of the hearing from what I could see, although I thought Cindy was going to fling herself over the chairs to get Casey's attention. Does anyone know what was so funny before the hearing started? I haven't heard why they were all chuckling.

jandkmom
08-22-2009, 12:07 PM
Speaking of BC - where was he yesterday? Shouldn't he have been there? If only for moral support?

He was there. He was next to GA.

zoomom
08-22-2009, 12:09 PM
He was there. He was next to GA.

Can't believe I missed that. Thanks.

whiteangora
08-22-2009, 12:10 PM
Speaking of BC - where was he yesterday? Shouldn't he have been there? If only for moral support?

BC was there, sitting next to George, he was in the aisle in his wheelchair, at least he was there in the beginning.

Lexington
08-22-2009, 12:21 PM
BC was there, sitting next to George, he was in the aisle in his wheelchair, at least he was there in the beginning.

If I'm not mistaken, BC was with CA and GA when CA gave her revised version of hearing events outside the courthouse.

Brini
08-22-2009, 12:31 PM
I've thought from the beginning they should have never interjected themselves into this case. LE was in the middle of an investigation and they were not privy to the mountain of evidence against Casey. That's just my opinion and it's history now but I really wish for the sake of the case and justice for Caylee, LP/TP and anyone else associated with them would stop doing interviews. They could be handing the defense useless fodder to be used during trial to deflect from the facts.

What defense information could they possibly have?

Brini
08-22-2009, 12:35 PM
Thanks Patty.

Now I'm confused. According to TP, he was in the home for two hours after she was let out of jail. He described her as:

- a nice girl
- seemed to care
- was very emotional
- trying time for her....

Didn't LP say the exact opposite? Something like she took a shower, cooked, and acted as if nothing happened. She seemed happy and not concerned about Caylee at all. When LP asked about Caylee, she told him to get out of her house?

Each of them had a different perception of/experience with KC.

Pegatha
08-22-2009, 12:38 PM
I've not been following this for awhile because it kind of makes me crazy. I popped in to see how things are going and it is starting to make me crazy again.

Overall, I think our justice system has gone so far from the original intent. Providing the best representation for the accused should not be to try and get cold blooded murderers off on technicalities or un-reasonable doubts. The intent is to make sure that the INNOCENT do not get railroaded, unfairly convicted or put to death instead of a more lenient sentence which maybe they deserve based on extenuating circumstances. I do not understanding attempting to throw innocent people under busses and try to re-write history. To me that is unethical and I can not watch without my stomach turning. Ethical people, tell the truth under oath, pay restitution and show true remorse for their failings, and accept the punishment they deserve. Utopia, I know but it is what I believe in.

Brini
08-22-2009, 12:40 PM
We have not seen Cindys texts, nor Lees, nor his girlfriend, Mallorys, nor have we seen many of Tonys. And of course, we have not seen Caseys in totality either...

It is despicable that each time the defense comes in to argue a new motion they throw someone else out as a potential conspirator/culprit. Zanny did it...no Annie did it...no Jesse did it...no Tony did it...for God sake Jose, throw out the correct one would you? CASEY DID IT!

Maybe JB is going reverse-alphabetically through the dramatis personae in the case?

If so, KC will be accused last. Unless an "Adams" turns up. :rolleyes:

Brini
08-22-2009, 12:44 PM
the defense just drops a bomb in court. They have proof that caylee's body was dumped while casey was in jail. Cindy has the full attention of the media and several microphones to her face. Her daughter is facing the dp. Does she make a plea to find the real killer? Nope, it's all about how she felt at peace, the way casey looked, how touching it was that casey got to see her dad. Poor casey hasn't seen her dad in such a long time. It's all about casey and cindy. Caylee wasn't even mentioned.

If we believe the defense, there is a baby killer on the loose. One that not only murdered caylee but moved her body after casey went to jail. Cindy/george have quite the nerve to set up an organization for missing children but have no interest in finding the one who killed caylee.

Oh wait, they know who killed caylee and she's right where she belongs.

potm!

kageykaren
08-22-2009, 12:45 PM
That KC thinks she is so slick! Wonder if someone who is sugar sappy is able to understand the meaning at the bottom of my post. My Pollyanna attitude flew out the door along time ago. If someone can bring back that spirit I would welcome it back and throw away all the assumptions of this family and how they have twisted Cayleeys story to fit their own needs of surviving due to the position their daughter has put them in.

DotsEyes
08-22-2009, 12:53 PM
GA did himself no favors when he said he didn't know if LP put up the $50K for the $500,000 bond and that JB, Tracy and LP were there to protect the Anthonys. He knows this isn't true because Tracy was in the house per the original agreement between TP and JB which JB backtracked on as soon as KC was released.

TP should have revoked the bond right then and there.

What legal services did they provide? "Um, they bonded her out." - GA. OK, GA you are playing coy. Just wait until they shove coy right where the sun doesn't shine.

If they were there for security for the whole family, then why were GA and CA outside without protection fighting the protestors, waving a hammer around, getting into shouting, shoving matches and showering them with the garden hose? Why did GA not have protection when he drove himself to work?

GA and CA knew that KC was not to talk to the Padilla gang and they were not to talk to her about Caylee outside the presence of JB, CA, GA or LA but GA didn't follow anyone around to listen to conversations and they could have been behind closed doors at some time, but either he, CA or LA were there continuously. I do not for a second believe that GA, CA or LA wouldn't be watching every move Tracy, RB, and LP made around KC. JB kept her in his office everyday for as long as possible to prevent her from running her mouth.

Your friend was a retired officer like you? "Yes."-GA. Um, GA no, you didn't retire, you quit after 10 years.

As for TP saying that KC was a nice, respectful person and was nice to him during the 2 hours he spent with her is his way of being unbiased. Nice respectful people do not steal, lie, manipulate or murder babies. Sociopaths are only nice to people who can do something for them, like put up $500K to get them out of jail. What flavor is his Kool-Aid?

I hope Tracy has more to say than the "they haven't even found her clothes yet" thing.

Brini
08-22-2009, 12:57 PM
I think GA knew exactly what she was asking but was intentionally playing dumb. In my eyes he didn't do himself any favors.

Not to mention obfuscating and reinterpreting the meanings of questions.

But, as one media person mentioned, he timed his tantrum well. Blew MN's presentation of the water at the disposal site, for the moment.

Can't imagine how the As are gonna find the energy to disrupt EVERY piece of evidence presented against KC during the trial. They'll die of exhaustion!

Still waiting to see the effect of their spiritual rebirth, BTW. :rolleyes:

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:02 PM
GA did himself no favors when he said he didn't know if LP put up the $50K for the $500,000 bond and that JB, Tracy and LP were there to protect the Anthonys. He knows this isn't true because Tracy was in the house per the original agreement between TP and JB which JB backtracked on as soon as KC was released.

TP should have revoked the bond right then and there.

What legal services did they provide? "Um, they bonded her out." - GA. OK, GA you are playing coy. Just wait until they shove coy right where the sun doesn't shine.

If they were there for security for the whole family, then why were GA and CA outside without protection fighting the protestors, waving a hammer around, getting into shouting, shoving matches and showering them with the garden hose? Why did GA not have protection when he drove himself to work?

GA and CA knew that KC was not to talk to the Padilla gang and they were not to talk to her about Caylee outside the presence of JB, CA, GA or LA but GA didn't follow anyone around to listen to conversations and they could have been behind closed doors at some time, but either he, CA or LA were there continuously. I do not for a second believe that GA, CA or LA wouldn't be watching every move Tracy, RB, and LP made around KC. JB kept her in his office everyday for as long as possible to prevent her from running her mouth.

Your friend was a retired officer like you? "Yes."-GA. Um, GA no, you didn't retire, you quit after 10 years.

As for TP saying that KC was a nice, respectful person and was nice to him during the 2 hours he spent with her is his way of being unbiased. Nice respectful people do not steal, lie, manipulate or murder babies. Sociopaths are only nice to people who can do something for them, like put up $500K to get them out of jail. What flavor is his Kool-Aid?

I hope Tracy has more to say than the "they haven't even found her clothes yet" thing.

KC IS nice to young, good-looking guys. She also plays Suzi Homemaker, when they are around. Cooking, laundering....She wasn't famous for that, when it was just KC, GA, and CA in the house.

KC is very good with young men-- we gotta admit that.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:08 PM
Very true. I can see that G and C can be very charming and C likes to be nurturing.Remember the protestor that was screaming in C's face and C was telling her to calm down,watch her blood pressure,etc.
I'm tired of bashing the A's,but I hope they'll do the right thing for Caylee before this is over.G's testimony yesterday didn't give me much hope.
It makes me want to see the States depos with him even more now.He told the SA her question was not relevent ,in court ,in front of the Judge!
I don't understand why their attorney doesn't tell them YOU CAN'T DO THAT!

Because obviously they can! They have been, are and will continue to. and they will get away with it... as they obviously always have. This behavior is not learned over night. They are professional victims, people let 'em slide.

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 01:09 PM
Judge Strickland didn't give any time-lines for his final rulings on the motions did he? I think he likes to brush up on case rulings before he issues his - I think he said a week but he is usually prtty quick to respond.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:11 PM
KC IS nice to young, good-looking guys. She also plays Suzi Homemaker, when they are around. Cooking, laundering....She wasn't famous for that, when it was just KC, GA, and CA in the house.

KC is very good with young men-- we gotta admit that.

Yeah but when they roll over and start snoring she's going through their pockets, making copies of their key's, perfecting their signatures, writing down their social security numbers and racking up their phone bills.

She's a nice girl, she let's em have an orgasm before she ruins their lives. LOL

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:12 PM
O/T
Very good friend of mine.. her aunt did "date/socialize" with Ted Bundy. She was the lucky ones who got away.

That's sociopathy forya.

They can charm the socks off the birds (to mix metaphors), But, don't be alone in a room with one.

A TON of people-- very respectable ones-- couldn't believe Bundy did it, for a long time. He was educated (relatively) good-looking, polite, involved in civic causes, well dressed. And, could charm the sox off the birds.

Those folks are the best chameleons.

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 01:13 PM
I didn't see the motions hearing because I'm in California and three hours behind time-wise and overslept. I didn't get a chance to read the first thread either as I was looking at the photos of the hearing, and watching the video clips from the hearing. So far have only viewed George's testimony and Cindy's comments after the hearing.

My impression from what little I've seen is that George still has the same arrogant attitude he had at the depositions, although he kept his anger in check. There was one point where I saw his short temper briefly rise to the surface, but he didn't let it boil over. That was when the judge was clarifying a question during the prosecution's questioning. I didn't like the smirks George was giving, and I know a jury isn't going to like that either.

I noted that George seemed to dance around the questions. He knows darn well that LP, TP, TMc, and RD were not there as security for his family because of the protesters. He knows that LP paid $50,000 to bond his daughter out of jail on the premise that LP, a bounty hunter, would try to find Caylee. George is trying to re-write history.

My impression of Casey is that she doesn't look good physically. She's lost weight and has a bedraggled look. I noted bags under her eyes. I don't know what to make of her emotions........I didn't see any real tears.

As for Cindy's comments after the hearing. I think she's reading way too much into Casey's response. Casey misses her freedom and seeing her dad reminds her of the freedom she had before all this. If she has any regrets, it's for herself. Cindy sees love...........Casey sees "I had it good when I was living with my parents."

Fridays are my busy days and I hope I can get back here later and catch up with the hearing and everyone's observations.

I never saw any tears either. It was identical to Scott Peterson wiping his dry eyes in his prliminary trial. She still has no tears. The rest I think was an act. I think she deliberately did NOT wear makeup to make herself look bad.

It's still a game to hr imo

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:13 PM
Not to mention obfuscating and reinterpreting the meanings of questions.

But, as one media person mentioned, he timed his tantrum well. Blew MN's presentation of the water at the disposal site, for the moment.

Can't imagine how the As are gonna find the energy to disrupt EVERY piece of evidence presented against KC during the trial. They'll die of exhaustion!

Still waiting to see the effect of their spiritual rebirth, BTW. :rolleyes:



I'm waiting to hear PoorGeorge go "splat" under those bus tires.

Lexington
08-22-2009, 01:15 PM
Maybe JB is going reverse-alphabetically through the dramatis personae in the case?

If so, KC will be accused last. Unless an "Adams" turns up. :rolleyes:

And who knows GA/CA/LA could be next to last (in alphabetical order, of course). Maybe JB hasn't decided whether to pin this on one or all of them and that's why KC hasn't taken any jail visits or phone calls and why she won't even look at them at the hearings. CA said on KLK that they communicate through letters (I don't believe that either). Very far fetched, I know, but the defense is obviously desperate at this point.

cecybeans
08-22-2009, 01:17 PM
The thing is, KC has a right to a jury trial and she will assert that right rather than be made to choose between a partial jury or a trial by bench. What seems to be a moot point isn't to the defense. To KC and her defense team, it's all about what her rights are so they will seek a change of venue to protect her right to a trial by jury.

Didn't the fact that KC sent a check to BoA for the total amount sort of seem like an admission of guilt or am I crazy? If you are innocent and want a jury trial it would seem like you would not feel compelled to make restitution for a crime you are saying you did not commit.


Was it ALyons that said something to the judge about, did I say that slow enough for you? My link kept cutting out so I did not hear that part. Did anyone else hear her say that and in what context did she use this phrase?

She was referring to a case number that she had inadvertently mixed up, IIRC and was correctly. She apologized for speaking too quickly, something Northerners are often guilty of and criticized for; I don't think she meant it sarcastically. After the open disdain for Strickland that both JB and LKB have shown, I'm sure that AL's obsequious behavior struck many of us as fake, simply because we have never seen anything but disrespect from any of the defense team. It may be true, but I think she is trying to match the tone and tenor of Linda DB in an attempt to neutralize JB's smug snarkiness and LKB's condescending "I'm gonna edu-macate the court" attitude. It appears she make have to tweak that a bit to be successful. Another one who could use an attitude adjustment, IMO, is that SA Ashton - he, Todd M and JB look and act like nasty, smirky little schoolboys who are laughing at each other behind their backs. No professionalism at all.

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 01:19 PM
Everything that Cindy said after the hearing was fiction. That Casey looks "healthy" is ridiculous - Casey looks like death warmed over. That Casey cried because she hadn't seen her father in a long time - I watched the video several times and I never saw a tear come out of Casey's eyes. Cindy also threw in a statement that Casey sobbed - WTF. That Cindy said "I love you" to Casey and Casey replied the same back - I never saw anything even close to this - Casey looked at neither Cindy nor George on the way in or out of the hearing from what I could see, although I thought Cindy was going to fling herself over the chairs to get Casey's attention. Does anyone know what was so funny before the hearing started? I haven't heard why they were all chuckling.

I think it is time for Cindy to enter the world of reality and abandon her Anthonyland world. She is ALWAYS seeign something that no impartial prson sees and she does not believe there is anything like a lie - just mistruths. I have some news for her mistruths ARE lies.

I guess she still believes that the world accepts every word out of her mouth as a pearl of wisdom instead of the blatanat lies that they are.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:23 PM
I agree with you.

I am 100% behind what the prosecutors are trying to do. I think KC is guilty as sin. I want to like the people representing justice for Caylee.

But, I think the male prosecutor's faces and head-shaking are not appropriate. A trial isn't a football game.

Oh gosh, I agree with ya'll! I have been worried about this guy from "day one". I love his passion, I do but ya just can't act like that in court. IMO dude's a hot head- JoseB enjoys messing with him too. I hope he can stay calm during the trial.

kageykaren
08-22-2009, 01:24 PM
Not to mention obfuscating and reinterpreting the meanings of questions.

But, as one media person mentioned, he timed his tantrum well. Blew MN's presentation of the water at the disposal site, for the moment.

Can't imagine how the As are gonna find the energy to disrupt EVERY piece of evidence presented against KC during the trial. They'll die of exhaustion!

Still waiting to see the effect of their spiritual rebirth, BTW. :rolleyes: I think the A's traded in their rose colored glasses for a stronger pair. Remember those glasses in the 70's that made everything appear like a kalidescope, and giving the illusion you were on LSD. I actually felt like I was tripping when CA approached the media as if she has graciously forgiven them. "Whatever gets them through the night is all right, all right" as we can see a bigger picture of stress being placed on them in the future.

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 01:26 PM
And who knows GA/CA/LA could be next to last (in alphabetical order, of course). Maybe JB hasn't decided whether to pin this on one or all of them and that's why KC hasn't taken any jail visits or phone calls and why she won't even look at them at the hearings. Very far fetched, I know, but the defense is obviously desperate at this point.


There's NO REASON for him to want the entire list of volunteers from TES other than to muddy the water. I can see him calling someone who was searching no where near Suburban Drive and getting them to admit there was no water where thy searched without mentioning that the person was not even searching on Suburban drive. His logic is so clear -if there is no stsanding water in one area of Orlando, there is obviously no standing water anywhere in Orlando. He is merely trying to muddy up things.

I can also see him getting any of KC's b/f's cell phone records and proving that they and the "new g/f" had it planned to get even with KC all along. I've seen these sleeze tactics by a defense atty in the past and it makes me sick (and makes me dispise defense lawyers in general. I'd really like to find one or two with some ethics. I sincerely do not believe that Jose Baez has an ethical bone in his body.

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:27 PM
Yeah but when they roll over and start snoring she's going through their pockets, making copies of their key's, perfecting their signatures, writing down their social security numbers and racking up their phone bills.

She's a nice girl, she let's em have an orgasm before she ruins their lives. LOL

That's for sure!

But, Tony, the lucky guy, had the power to revoke bail.

She wasn't gonna scar him with the talons.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:27 PM
The "once over" was that when KC first files in? I didn't see the once over either--because the big attorney guy blocks my view.

All I saw was Cindy searching for any sign that her daughter saw her. I didn't see any judgement or nastiness in Cindy toward Casey. It was just puppy dogish as always.

karenmamo
08-22-2009, 01:28 PM
What I remember about this is that it was a little more expensive to join, something like $9.98 and it was RD who made an announcement (I think at J Blanchard Park) that they would close the site and refund all the money. I don't know whether the money was refunded or not.



Yes, the money was refunded because Rob was criticized for putting the forum up.
It is still a fairly active forum and Rob comes in when he can.

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:29 PM
There's NO REASON for him to want the entire list of volunteers from TES other than to muddy the water. I can see him calling someone who was searching no where near Suburban Drive and getting them to admit there was no water where thy searched without mentioning that the person was not even searching on Suburban drive. His logic is so clear -if there is no stsanding water in one area of Orlando, there is obviously no standing water anywhere in Orlando. He is merely trying to muddy up things.

I can also see him getting any of KC's b/f's cell phone records and proving that they and the "new g/f" had it planned to get even with KC all along. I've seen these sleeze tactics by a defense atty in the past and it makes me sick (and makes me dispise defense lawyers in general. I'd really like to find one or two with some ethics. I sincerely do not believe that Jose Baez has an ethical bone in his body.

Or, going after the volunteer who had a minor crime, 20 years ago, on the record.

JB is running out of spaghetti to throw against the wall. He's looking to cook up another batch.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:30 PM
I think the A's traded in their rose colored glasses for a stronger pair. Remember those glasses in the 70's that made everything appear like a kalidescope, and giving the illusion you were on LSD. I actually felt like I was tripping when CA approached the media as if she has graciously forgiven them. "Whatever gets them through the night is all right, all right" as we can see a bigger picture of stress being placed on them in the future.

hahah! No joke, Karen! She was all sweet and gracious. :puke:

cecybeans
08-22-2009, 01:31 PM
I never saw any tears either. It was identical to Scott Peterson wiping his dry eyes in his prliminary trial. She still has no tears. The rest I think was an act. I think she deliberately did NOT wear makeup to make herself look bad.

It's still a game to hr imo

I think maybe somebody (AL?) had a "come to Jesus" talk with her about her comportment and demeanor in court, how she needed to look solemn and serious (even though she looked like she was jumping out of her skin in open-eyed REM sleep) and that maybe a tear or two (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) could help make her look sympathetic to a jury. Somebody told her maybe it could mean the difference between life or death. AL sure shot both JB and KC a look when they exchanged a note. I think she is slowly beginning to assert her "alpha dog" personality on this case.

I think the defense reads our comments about her appearance because I notice that things we criticize from one hearing are changed at the next. Her hair (though greasy) was up off her face this time so she wasn't constantly playing with it (which is body language that indicates anxiety and a desire not to be straightforward). She wasn't constantly fiddling with her clothes and hands that I could see. She didn't have all the eye makeup she had on last time. She was dressed in a plain, sort of nondescript outfit in a color that emphasized her paleness and the bags under her eyes. I think somebody told her this isn't a beauty contest but a fight for her life and perhaps she ought to act like an exhausted, bereaved parent instead of a flirty high school girl throwing pens at her "attorney".

I doubt she thought of any of these things on her own - she is too vain, silly and shallow. And JB or CA or whoever has dressed her previously did not realize that she doesn't need to look like a legal intern or a secretary in a twinset, but a poor, plain little waif that will be hard for jurors to imagine is the same person poledancing and partying in the American flag.

Somebody who has had some experience with how a defendant needs to look to a jury in a DP trial, and the impact it can have on the outcome, has been coaching her, imo.

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:32 PM
Oh gosh, I agree with ya'll! I have been worried about this guy from "day one". I love his passion, I do but ya just can't act like that in court. IMO dude's a hot head- JoseB enjoys messing with him too. I hope he can stay calm during the trial.

We gotta get equipped, and go visit the trail-- socks, duct tape, sedatives, barf bags.....

cecybeans
08-22-2009, 01:34 PM
I think the A's traded in their rose colored glasses for a stronger pair. Remember those glasses in the 70's that made everything appear like a kalidescope, and giving the illusion you were on LSD. I actually felt like I was tripping when CA approached the media as if she has graciously forgiven them. "Whatever gets them through the night is all right, all right" as we can see a bigger picture of stress being placed on them in the future.

LOL, I sort of expected Rod Serling to posthumously pop into the picture and tell us all we had entered the Twilight Zone...

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:35 PM
I never saw any tears either. It was identical to Scott Peterson wiping his dry eyes in his prliminary trial. She still has no tears. The rest I think was an act. I think she deliberately did NOT wear makeup to make herself look bad.

It's still a game to hr imo

Exactly! She's in "pathetic mode."

SeriouslySearching
08-22-2009, 01:36 PM
After going back and reviewing the tape/photos, I do believe she was crying real tears. The talk of being home made her feel very sorry for herself, imo. I don't think it was really seeing her father on the stand, but the combination of his words and her memories of freedom tipped her over that edge. She cries for no one except herself at any time, imo.

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:36 PM
LOL, I sort of expected Rod Serling to posthumously pop into the picture and tell us all we had entered the Twilight Zone...

I was looking for Alfred Hitchcock.

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:41 PM
I think maybe somebody (AL?) had a "come to Jesus" talk with her about her comportment and demeanor in court, how she needed to look solemn and serious (even though she looked like she was jumping out of her skin in open-eyed REM sleep) and that maybe a tear or two (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) could help make her look sympathetic to a jury. Somebody told her maybe it could mean the difference between life or death. AL sure shot both JB and KC a look when they exchanged a note. I think she is slowly beginning to assert her "alpha dog" personality on this case.

I think the defense reads our comments about her appearance because I notice that things we criticize from one hearing are changed at the next. Her hair (though greasy) was up off her face this time so she wasn't constantly playing with it (which is body language that indicates anxiety and a desire not to be straightforward). She wasn't constantly fiddling with her clothes and hands that I could see. She didn't have all the eye makeup she had on last time. She was dressed in a plain, sort of nondescript outfit in a color that emphasized her paleness and the bags under her eyes. I think somebody told her this isn't a beauty contest but a fight for her life and perhaps she ought to act like an exhausted, bereaved parent instead of a flirty high school girl throwing pens at her "attorney".

I doubt she thought of any of these things on her own - she is too vain, silly and shallow. And JB or CA or whoever has dressed her previously did not realize that she doesn't need to look like a legal intern or a secretary in a twinset, but a poor, plain little waif that will be hard for jurors to imagine is the same person poledancing and partying in the American flag.

Somebody who has had some experience with how a defendant needs to look to a jury in a DP trial, and the impact it can have on the outcome, has been coaching her, imo.

DEAD ON, again, Beans!

Pass over that stuff you're nipping, so my posts can sound more like yours, Beans!. :blowkiss::blowkiss:

She needs some new clothes though-- that fit. She's been hitting on the Ding Dongs, and the skirt seams were straining.

Yeah.. I'm sure Mme Esquire has been coaching her.

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:48 PM
Yes, it was $10
the site is still up and running...am a member there

What w/s is this? Thanks!

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:50 PM
Or, going after the volunteer who had a minor crime, 20 years ago, on the record.

JB is running out of spaghetti to throw against the wall. He's looking to cook up another batch.

Please don't take this as I'm "with" JoseB on this issue cuz I'm not- I despise the guy, for real! But I would have no problem having my information released if I were a searcher. I think in signing up to search I would realize that if I were to find a body or whatever of course people would want to know about me. I think they'd have a right to know at least my criminal background. And this is coming from a felon!

I think anyone who volunteer's for anything should be checked out. Nobody can be taken at their word.. nobody. With that said, if criminal background checks were needed to become a volunteer, half of us couldn't be volunteer's! Ha, I couldn't even get into nursing school and I am not alone, far from it! In this day and age I seriously doubt any of us would hold a 20 year old minor crime against any selfless seacher!

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Ohhhhhh, I've got it now. Evidently the Anthony universal sign for "I Love You" is flipping the bird. That's how KC told her dad "I Love You"....got it:rolleyes:

Lemme see.. the American Sign Language slang for "I love you" is the extended thumb, index, and little finger (for I, L, and Y).

Nope...... don't see a middle finger. :crazy::blowkiss::-)))

I know! They are flashing "five" in binary! (thumb abd middle finger). :-)

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:54 PM
DEAD ON, again, Beans!

Pass over that stuff you're nipping, so my posts can sound more like yours, Beans!. :blowkiss::blowkiss:

She needs some new clothes though-- that fit. She's been hitting on the Ding Dongs, and the skirt seams were straining.

Yeah.. I'm sure Mme Esquire has been coaching her.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/funny/cid_7579B5DE-A980-498F-A2DA-480B895.gif

hittin' on the ding dongs!

autumnlover
08-22-2009, 01:58 PM
After going back and reviewing the tape/photos, I do believe she was crying real tears. The talk of being home made her feel very sorry for herself, imo. I don't think it was really seeing her father on the stand, but the combination of his words and her memories of freedom tipped her over that edge. She cries for no one except herself at any time, imo.

ITA. Her eyes were red so I believe she was crying, too. However, she was only crying for herself and nobody else. I believe that she was probably crying because she was grieving over the fact that her parents get to go home and she doesn't. She wasn't crying because she feels sorry for anything or for the fact that she's afraid for her life. Sociopaths don't feel fear. That's been proven by the research. I guarantee she thinks she will win the case because she thinks she's so smart. No, friends, she's crying because her freedom has been taken away. "Everything's been taken away from me."

Brini
08-22-2009, 01:58 PM
Please don't take this as I'm "with" JoseB on this issue cuz I'm not- I despise the guy, for real! But I would have no problem having my information released if I were a searcher. I think in signing up to search I would realize that if I were to find a body or whatever of course people would want to know about me. I think they'd have a right to know at least my criminal background. And this is coming from a felon!

I think anyone who volunteer's for anything should be checked out. Nobody can be taken at their word.. nobody. With that said, if criminal background checks were needed to become a volunteer, half of us couldn't be volunteer's! Ha, I couldn't even get into nursing school and I am not alone, far from it! In this day and age I seriously doubt any of us would hold a 20 year old minor crime against any selfless seacher!

A agree! But, JB is getting really desperate, here. HE might think he could stick some unrelated person. The list of prospective patsies is getting VERY short!

BTW-- I would also think that en ex-felon who searched diligently would be an EXCELLENT example. Especially to at-risk kids.

BTW2-- But, remember, you are prolly the bravest person on WS. Or at least one top the top five.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 01:59 PM
I've not been following this for awhile because it kind of makes me crazy. I popped in to see how things are going and it is starting to make me crazy again.

Overall, I think our justice system has gone so far from the original intent. Providing the best representation for the accused should not be to try and get cold blooded murderers off on technicalities or un-reasonable doubts. The intent is to make sure that the INNOCENT do not get railroaded, unfairly convicted or put to death instead of a more lenient sentence which maybe they deserve based on extenuating circumstances. I do not understanding attempting to throw innocent people under busses and try to re-write history. To me that is unethical and I can not watch without my stomach turning. Ethical people, tell the truth under oath, pay restitution and show true remorse for their failings, and accept the punishment they deserve. Utopia, I know but it is what I believe in.

Bold is mine-

:blowkiss:

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 02:03 PM
ITA. Her eyes were red so I believe she was crying, too. However, she was only crying for herself and nobody else. I believe that she was probably crying because she was grieving over the fact that her parents get to go home and she doesn't. She wasn't crying because she feels sorry for anything or for the fact that she's afraid for her life. Sociopaths don't feel fear. That's been proven by the research. I guarantee she thinks she will win the case because she thinks she's so smart. No, friends, she's crying because her freedom has been taken away. "Everything's been taken away from me."

I think her crying was real too. Every time she is confronted with her father.

Brini
08-22-2009, 02:03 PM
It isn't him they are trying to block...it is Tracy.


The bond...

The last thing that Casey IS is a nice respectful girl. A.) You bonded her out on a half a mil...B.) You are a man and she loves her some man now! C) Casey is either a sociopath or she is in training to be one, and the MO of the socio is utter charm and respect...to some...but to others? Like poor Caylee? They get something else less charming and less respectful...


That is what I was going to say so ditto...:blowkiss:

That is what many of the people who lived next door to serial killers have said, they always seemed so nice, they always waved, they were always so friendly, etc...You have to look outside of the bubble that is the treatment you have received and view the broader picture...She wasn't always nice to Caylee. Watch Breakfast with Caylee on You Tube to get an idea of her torture tactics she used on that poor baby...

I am addressing only your last paragraph...The remains were found less than 20 feet from the side of the road. 200 yards is 600 feet...And it was December when Mr. Kronk was finally able to GET to the bag. He himself states it was underwater whenever he first began to report it...
All I have to look at to know who and what the A's are of is their "foundation" where everything is based on MISSING not MURDERED children, and where they tell us how wisely they will spend our donations. And I did not discern my opinion of them from news interviews. I watched dozens and dozens of hours of POLICE interviews and FBI interviews and depositions. These were straight out of the horses mouth so to speak and told me all I needed to know.


I was just rewatching Cindys deposition with Morgan and Morgan and she emphatically states, "I gave Casey money all the time".
I've met them...in my nightmares and in the comatose states in which I have found myself after struggling through their mounds of lies in the interviews with Law Enforcement...

Can I join your fan club, too?

(I'm joining a passel of fan clubs, here,) :-)

kageykaren
08-22-2009, 02:05 PM
You know All she needs is alittle bronzer powder and tweek those clothes better as the Library science student look isn't cutting it! I can invision both CA and KC clutching their bibles displaying a calm in their effort to ward off the evil blogging natives with their forgiveness. Defense needs to distance their client even further to avoid what may look like a silent solidarity if they are going with the, "Poor, Poor, Pitiful Me, Oh lord let me be" look. I can here KC singing herself to sleep, "Wasted days & wasted Nights"

listening-in
08-22-2009, 02:16 PM
When I first saw KC stroll into courtroom, I noticed her clothes, makeup(none) and hair. I immediately thought that this was AL's influence...she has given KC the "Poor Me" Look. AL is very courtroom savy and knows what works and what does not...so dress up the main character in this drama to invoke as much sympathy ....(the weird thing is ....didn't KC purchase make-up from the prison store?- is she saving it for her day to day cell look?)--Another thing I think I noticed about KC's tears, they seemed to come up around the time (not when court talking about Caylee) the dp was brought up....I also think this is due to AL's influence....she has impressed upon KC ...that this is serious business....something JB neglected to do..JMO-of course

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 02:17 PM
I think maybe somebody (AL?) had a "come to Jesus" talk with her about her comportment and demeanor in court, how she needed to look solemn and serious (even though she looked like she was jumping out of her skin in open-eyed REM sleep) and that maybe a tear or two (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) could help make her look sympathetic to a jury. Somebody told her maybe it could mean the difference between life or death. AL sure shot both JB and KC a look when they exchanged a note. I think she is slowly beginning to assert her "alpha dog" personality on this case.

I think the defense reads our comments about her appearance because I notice that things we criticize from one hearing are changed at the next. Her hair (though greasy) was up off her face this time so she wasn't constantly playing with it (which is body language that indicates anxiety and a desire not to be straightforward). She wasn't constantly fiddling with her clothes and hands that I could see. She didn't have all the eye makeup she had on last time. She was dressed in a plain, sort of nondescript outfit in a color that emphasized her paleness and the bags under her eyes. I think somebody told her this isn't a beauty contest but a fight for her life and perhaps she ought to act like an exhausted, bereaved parent instead of a flirty high school girl throwing pens at her "attorney".

I doubt she thought of any of these things on her own - she is too vain, silly and shallow. And JB or CA or whoever has dressed her previously did not realize that she doesn't need to look like a legal intern or a secretary in a twinset, but a poor, plain little waif that will be hard for jurors to imagine is the same person poledancing and partying in the American flag.

Somebody who has had some experience with how a defendant needs to look to a jury in a DP trial, and the impact it can have on the outcome, has been coaching her, imo.

Makes me wonder if she was rubbing under her eyes with that kleenex to make the dark circles mor prominent.

I just don't believe a talk from ANY woman, let alone someone as unappealing as Ms. Lyons appearance is would have any effect at all on the superficial Miss Anthony. She certainly didn't have any red eyes from all those "big tears" she shed.

Jolynna
08-22-2009, 02:20 PM
I am totally confused on this thread!!!!

I don't understand why Tony is saying these things about Leonard. Yes, we have all had our differing opinions on LP but to blatantly say he is "quite the liar" and "this was a publicity stunt for LP" is beyond my comprehension. LP is Tony's uncle right?

Then he goes on to say "After Casey went back to jail there was never a reason to return for a Caylee memorial with that reverand nut. He should have left things alone." Is he referring to RG, Jesse's dad?

I know there are many lovers/haters of LP on this board but I sure wasn't aware that his own nephew had such harsh feelings for his uncle.

I don't think Tony has harsh feelings for his uncle. I think he loves his uncle. But, he might not be comfortable with some of what his uncle has put out to the media.

I'm sure Tony didn't say anything here he hasn't said to Leonard's face. Since he said Leonard was happy about being called a flamboyant cowboy, they must still be talking despite Tony's opinions.

It's between the two of them and despite the differences, it sounds like they are still talking. I think Leonard is more than able to handle it.

JMO

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 02:22 PM
ITA. Her eyes were red so I believe she was crying, too. However, she was only crying for herself and nobody else. I believe that she was probably crying because she was grieving over the fact that her parents get to go home and she doesn't. She wasn't crying because she feels sorry for anything or for the fact that she's afraid for her life. Sociopaths don't feel fear. That's been proven by the research. I guarantee she thinks she will win the case because she thinks she's so smart. No, friends, she's crying because her freedom has been taken away. "Everything's been taken away from me."

I watched the videoe three times adn I saw NO red eyes at all. The whites of her eyes were totally white. And sociopaths adapt well to jail and prison. I cannot see her taking advice from ANYONE - she knows better. She has managed to bamboozle people all her life so why would she ake advice from anyone. She's a pro at manipulation.

Chiquita71
08-22-2009, 02:22 PM
Hello WS :)

As far as TP is concerned, did he or didn't he sign an agreement with JB? And, what does he mean he was upset, worried about being (maybe) arrested and that is why he did not get(ask for)a copy of said document?

I respectfully ask how long he has been employed as a bail bondsman? Has he ever been threatened with jail before? Why was he being threatened with jail? Or being arrested?

If something is totally untrue, how can JB sustain this "lie"? Why didn't the judge want to get to the truth. Either these people are beholding under the law to do or not do-or not. Right? I cannot understand why there is no "truth" found?

I am sure the lack of understanding is my own.

...jmo...

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 02:24 PM
I don't think Tony has harsh feelings for his uncle. I think he loves his uncle. But, he might not be comfortable with some of what his uncle has put out to the media.

I'm sure Tony didn't say anything here he hasn't said to Leonard's face. Since he said Leonard was happy about being called a flamboyant cowboy, they must still be talking despite Tony's opinions.

It's between the two of them and despite the differences, it sounds like they are still talking. I think Leonard is more than able to handle it.

JMO
Don't think for a minute that Baez won't use those words against LP during the trial if he can't get his testimony blocked.

RR0004
08-22-2009, 02:25 PM
I agree Pink Panther. I am sure he was being evasive but, he also appeared to not really understand what was being asked of him. When he was asked whether he could hear conversations between Tracy and Casey, he replied that he didn't and doesn't eavesdrop. He just didn't seem to understand the question. Even when she asked about the square footage of the home, he never properly answered the question.

He just didn't seem to understand that the prosecution was saying that the body guards were not there to protect the family and the family home. They were there to guard their bond investment (Casey.)

That's why he thought the fact that he had a friend that was a security guard, and that he himself was a security guard was irrelevant.
IMO...he got it. George is good at playing d**b!

twomanywords
08-22-2009, 02:30 PM
OK,
Lets assume Macaluso gets away with this inane direction of Casey being "innocent"( And by the way he said that before he ever met her too)
If someone else dumped the body:
Why didn't Casey report Caylee missing ever? cindy did.
Why would Casey drive around with a dead Caylee in her trunk?
Who else( other than Cin and George) had access to all items found at burial site?
If Casey didn't do it, isn't lying, then where is the Nanny she left her with and who could it be? And why would the Nanny make her drive around with a dead body and then require her to abandon her car, with baby doll and her purse?
Why would Casey protect anyone this long?
I'd be shouting from the rooftops that I didn't do it and someone else did if that were true. She is safe in prison , so no one can"off" her.
JMO

Oh , and Macaluso, how are all of those lawsuits in Calif going for you? The ones where you accidently put clients money in your account?
OOPS......

RR0004
08-22-2009, 02:31 PM
I think the As are going to push it as far as they can on the stand. That's why the judge has to lay the law down now or it's going to result in chaos, especially when Cindy takes the stand. The minute GA said the question was irrelevant, the judge should have shut him down and told him that his lawyer has to object, not him.
I was just waiting for the prosecutor to say something to the judge, like directing him to answer the question, but I guess that's not protocol in a hearing.

mysteriew
08-22-2009, 02:36 PM
I don't think Tony has harsh feelings for his uncle. I think he loves his uncle. But, he might not be comfortable with some of what his uncle has put out to the media.

I'm sure Tony didn't say anything here he hasn't said to Leonard's face. Since he said Leonard was happy about being called a flamboyant cowboy, they must still be talking despite Tony's opinions.

It's between the two of them and despite the differences, it sounds like they are still talking. I think Leonard is more than able to handle it.

JMO

I agree. Even two people who love each other can disagree. And I think TP loves and admires his uncle. Even when he was critizing his uncle, he made statements about how good he usually is.

But he disagrees with him in this situation. I think he is probably going public with this disagreement because of the situation. The two are publicly connected, so he is somewhat judged by his uncles actions and statements and he disagrees with LP's behavior. So does he keep his mouth shut and let people think that he backs what LP is doing? Or does he make his opinions known publicly? He is in a no win situation. Either way he is going to have someone who disagrees with him.

Gaia713
08-22-2009, 02:37 PM
OK,
Lets assume Macaluso gets away with this inane direction of Casey being "innocent"( And by the way he said that before he ever met her too)
If someone else dumped the body:
Why didn't Casey report Caylee missing ever? cindy did.
Why would Casey drive around with a dead Caylee in her trunk?
Who else( other than Cin and George) had access to all items found at burial site?
If Casey didn't do it, isn't lying, then where is the Nanny she left her with and who could it be? And why would the Nanny make her drive around with a dead body and then require her to abandon her car, with baby doll and her purse?
Why would Casey protect anyone this long?
I'd be shouting from the rooftops that I didn't do it and someone else did if that were true. She is safe in prison , so no one can"off" her.
JMO

Oh , and Macaluso, how are all of those lawsuits in Calif going for you? The ones where you accidently put clients money in your account?
OOPS......

BRAVO - we can only hope for some sanctions against him by the CA BAR. Wondow how willing the FL Courts will be to allow him to practice there.

twomanywords
08-22-2009, 02:37 PM
Oh, and another thing....if indeed Casey was innocent, WHY are her parent's lying all the time and acting belligerent?
Why would they be so rude to Tim if they truly had wanted Caylee found?
If there is some miracle and Casey is innocent, her parent's are the ones puttin' those nails in her coffin. George is the first one that raised my suspicions in this case and made me interested to watch it. My Hinky meter was on Very High Alert when I saw him on Greta!

Reagan
08-22-2009, 02:38 PM
I've thought from the beginning they should have never interjected themselves into this case. LE was in the middle of an investigation and they were not privy to the mountain of evidence against Casey. That's just my opinion and it's history now but I really wish for the sake of the case and justice for Caylee, LP/TP and anyone else associated with them would stop doing interviews. They could be handing the defense useless fodder to be used during trial to deflect from the facts.

I agree totally. What was the point of him being on the today show anyway? He hardly said anything, and when he did speak, it was nothing of substance. JMO

Thank you Patty for recording it anyway.

O/T To the poster that said they noticed KCs car in someones driveway on that digital map.. was the car backed in or..?

Lexington
08-22-2009, 02:38 PM
I don't know why George persists in being a smart a##. That is not the way to go if he wants to win friends and influence people (thanks Dale Carnegie). He really needs to knock off the arrogant facial expressions and the I don't know what you're talking about pretense. BC needs to have a serious come to Jesus meeting with George and straighten him out regarding his attitude problem. It is not helping KC one bit.

twomanywords
08-22-2009, 02:45 PM
I don't know why George persists in being a smart a##. That is not the way to go if he wants to win friends and influence people (thanks Dale Carnegie). He really needs to knock off the arrogant facial expressions and the I don't know what you're talking about pretense. BC needs to have a serious come to meeting with George and straighten him out regarding his attitude problem. It is not helping KC one bit.
Again, another example of her parents nailing that coffin shut. Why be evasive if your daughter is innocent?
Amazing that he remembers what he was watching and what Caylee was wearing the last day he saw her, but has no idea why Leonard and Tony were at his house.:furious:

mysteriew
08-22-2009, 02:45 PM
I was just waiting for the prosecutor to say something to the judge, like directing him to anser the question, but I guess that's not protocol in a hearing.

Both attorneys develop a lot of their interview strategy on the witnesses during the hearings. Some of the behaviors they will exploit to get more info, some behaviors they will want to stop. They often won't object during the hearing, because they don't want the behaviors to stop or change during the trial. Just think how GA's evasion and attempts to "exert privelege" will look to a jury. It will make them really question anything GA says. When the state's attorney has to constantly keep the witness on track, has to make them answer the questions they are asked it will make the jury question if they are attempting to cover up. And in this case, that is a good thing for the prosecution.

Brini
08-22-2009, 02:46 PM
Hello WS :)

As far as TP is concerned, did he or didn't he sign an agreement with JB? And, what does he mean he was upset, worried about being (maybe) arrested and that is why he did not get(ask for)a copy of said document?

I respectfully ask how long he has been employed as a bail bondsman? Has he ever been threatened with jail before? Why was he being threatened with jail? Or being arrested?

If something is totally untrue, how can JB sustain this "lie"? Why didn't the judge want to get to the truth. Either these people are beholding under the law to do or not do-or not. Right? I cannot understand why there is no "truth" found?

I am sure the lack of understanding is my own.

...jmo...

I think JB was ordered to produce the signed original-- which he has not yet done.

JB knows what bail bondsmen do. GA knows what bail bondsmen do. They make sure the accused doesn't flee.

We didn't see either TP or LP bodyguarding KC.

So, my guess is that the contract will settle the issue.

SondraK
08-22-2009, 02:47 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
We gotta get equipped, and go visit the trail-- socks, duct tape, sedatives, barf bags.....

Just want you to know I so appreciate your sense of humor. I have certainly needed a laugh or two in this sordid situation. Thank you for providing that.

RR0004
08-22-2009, 02:47 PM
GA did himself no favors when he said he didn't know if LP put up the $50K for the $500,000 bond and that JB, Tracy and LP were there to protect the Anthonys. He knows this isn't true because Tracy was in the house per the original agreement between TP and JB which JB backtracked on as soon as KC was released.

TP should have revoked the bond right then and there.

What legal services did they provide? "Um, they bonded her out." - GA. OK, GA you are playing coy. Just wait until they shove coy right where the sun doesn't shine.

If they were there for security for the whole family, then why were GA and CA outside without protection fighting the protestors, waving a hammer around, getting into shouting, shoving matches and showering them with the garden hose? Why did GA not have protection when he drove himself to work?

GA and CA knew that KC was not to talk to the Padilla gang and they were not to talk to her about Caylee outside the presence of JB, CA, GA or LA but GA didn't follow anyone around to listen to conversations and they could have been behind closed doors at some time, but either he, CA or LA were there continuously. I do not for a second believe that GA, CA or LA wouldn't be watching every move Tracy, RB, and LP made around KC. JB kept her in his office everyday for as long as possible to prevent her from running her mouth.

Your friend was a retired officer like you? "Yes."-GA. Um, GA no, you didn't retire, you quit after 10 years.

As for TP saying that KC was a nice, respectful person and was nice to him during the 2 hours he spent with her is his way of being unbiased. Nice respectful people do not steal, lie, manipulate or murder babies. Sociopaths are only nice to people who can do something for them, like put up $500K to get them out of jail. What flavor is his Kool-Aid?

I hope Tracy has more to say than the "they haven't even found her clothes yet" thing.
Just...WOW!

Brini
08-22-2009, 02:48 PM
Both attorneys develop a lot of their interview strategy on the witnesses during the hearings. Some of the behaviors they will exploit to get more info, some behaviors they will want to stop. They often won't object during the hearing, because they don't want the behaviors to stop or change during the trial. Just think how GA's evasion and attempts to "exert privelege" will look to a jury. It will make them really question anything GA says. When the state's attorney has to constantly keep the witness on track, has to make them answer the questions they are asked it will make the jury question if they are attempting to cover up. And in this case, that is a good thing for the prosecution.
Yeah, I'm guessing that a LOT of A behaviors inspired joy in the state's coffee room, if not floor laughes!

All the As need to get used to the idea that they will not survive cross exam. Think: 40-foot food processor

lee3
08-22-2009, 02:50 PM
I agree totally. What was the point of him being on the today show anyway? He hardly said anything, and when he did speak, it was nothing of substance. JMO

Thank you Patty for recording it anyway.

O/T To the poster that said they noticed KCs car in someones driveway on that digital map.. was the car backed in or..?

No, it is not blocked in and it is the A's driveway. If I knew how to do a screenshot, I would.

jon_burrows
08-22-2009, 02:53 PM
Don't think for a minute that Baez won't use those words against LP during the trial if he can't get his testimony blocked.

Exactly, LP and TP are telling polar opposite stories regarding Casey's demeanor when she was let out of jail. TP's taking it a step further and attacking LP's character too. LP will probably retaliate by slinging some mud TP's way on whatever show will have him just like he did to TM.

I agree, Baez will use this to his advantage.

MADJGNLAW
08-22-2009, 02:56 PM
Again, another example of her parents nailing that coffin shut. Why be evasive if your daughter is innocent?
Amazing that he remembers what he was watching and what Caylee was wearing the last day he saw her, but has no idea why Leonard and Tony were at his house.:furious:

Don't forget his cooking show...LOL:woohoo:

Brini
08-22-2009, 02:57 PM
I don't think Tony has harsh feelings for his uncle. I think he loves his uncle. But, he might not be comfortable with some of what his uncle has put out to the media.

I'm sure Tony didn't say anything here he hasn't said to Leonard's face. Since he said Leonard was happy about being called a flamboyant cowboy, they must still be talking despite Tony's opinions.

It's between the two of them and despite the differences, it sounds like they are still talking. I think Leonard is more than able to handle it.

JMO

I think Tony is thoroughly exasperated.

I REALLY like LP, but I'll admit. I've wanted to smack him, a few times-- and I'm not a close relative.

Like, about his paternity remarks, TL's dumpster being "critical" to the case, the Blanchard Park thing......

Lexington
08-22-2009, 03:00 PM
Don't forget his cooking show...LOL:woohoo:

Wasn't it his news er cooking show?

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 03:00 PM
I watched the videoe three times adn I saw NO red eyes at all. The whites of her eyes were totally white. And sociopaths adapt well to jail and prison. I cannot see her taking advice from ANYONE - she knows better. She has managed to bamboozle people all her life so why would she ake advice from anyone. She's a pro at manipulation.


Some of us are pretty good at detecting it.

SeriouslySearching
08-22-2009, 03:01 PM
I watched the videoe three times adn I saw NO red eyes at all. The whites of her eyes were totally white. And sociopaths adapt well to jail and prison. I cannot see her taking advice from ANYONE - she knows better. She has managed to bamboozle people all her life so why would she ake advice from anyone. She's a pro at manipulation.The still photos show it best if you look on WFTV's slideshow presentation. It does show red rimmed eyes and tears quite clearly, imo.

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:02 PM
Exactly, LP and TP are telling polar opposite stories regarding Casey's demeanor when she was let out of jail. TP's taking it a step further and attacking LP's character too. LP will probably retaliate by slinging some mud TP's way on whatever show will have him just like he did to TM.

I agree, Baez will use this to his advantage.

Not sure JB CAN.

Neither guy really knows much of anything about the crime.

They have KC's demeanor when she was around them. Which was very briefly.

LP s/w KC for five minutes.

TP will say, "She seemed nice when she was around me."

They are not much use for establishing KC's character.

The friends will be of much greater use. They've already filled LE in on the lying and stealing.

The best character evidence is, of course, KC and the As behaviors, and their phone calls, movements, and texts. Her stealing, lying, and the As attempt at cover-up. Between that and the MOUNTAIN of circumstantial......

Stick a pitchfork in her, folks. She's REALLY done!

When the devil sees her, in h---, he'll prolly hide all the cutlery. AND, the plastic bags!

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:03 PM
Wasn't it his news er cooking show?

It's hard to say, because both shows seemed to keep switching time slots. :rolleyes:

niaa
08-22-2009, 03:05 PM
I completely agree that KC's demeanor and appearance is the result of coaching. I expect that after ever appearance that the defense team consults a jury specialist. I'm always a bit surprised that they tend to dress her in poorly fitted clothes. In any case, it doesn't sway my opinion and I would expect it will not sway a juror. I certainly believe that her actions in court (smiling, exchanging notes, pens with JB) would be extremely detrimental to her. She can and will get a fair trial. Probably not in Orlando but in another city. Just find some 30 year olds that are busy raising kids and working. They just do not have time to follow a case that is covered in another city.

Reagan
08-22-2009, 03:16 PM
I don't know why George persists in being a smart a##. That is not the way to go if he wants to win friends and influence people (thanks Dale Carnegie). He really needs to knock off the arrogant facial expressions and the I don't know what you're talking about pretense. BC needs to have a serious come to Jesus meeting with George and straighten him out regarding his attitude problem. It is not helping KC one bit.
I think everyone needs to knock off the arrogant facial expressions, but GA especially. Sometimes I wonder if the A's are intentionally trying to screw things up, because they're sadly mistaken if they think they're helping. The jury will see right through it.

The male SA and JBs schoolyard antics are becoming old real quick, and one can only hope they're more serious when this goes to trial. This is SERIOUS business. We're talking about the death of an innocent 3 year old, and a young mother (who is obviously guilty) who will more than likely be convicted of her murder. It's a sad situation all around.

So you guys don't like each other? Great. I don't like you two that much either. But instead of having a smug arrogant attitude (JB) or kicking back and making smirky faces at everything the defense says... how about treat this like the serious situation it is. Take a lesson from the female SA and show that you're better than JB. Kick his butt when it comes to the law and look better than the bumbling idiot that he is.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 03:16 PM
I completely agree that KC's demeanor and appearance is the result of coaching. I expect that after ever appearance that the defense team consults a jury specialist. I'm always a bit surprised that they tend to dress her in poorly fitted clothes. In any case, it doesn't sway my opinion and I would expect it will not sway a juror. I certainly believe that her actions in court (smiling, exchanging notes, pens with JB) would be extremely detrimental to her. She can and will get a fair trial. Probably not in Orlando but in another city. Just find some 30 year olds that are busy raising kids and working. They just do not have time to follow a case that is covered in another city.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/ale1.gif

jon_burrows
08-22-2009, 03:18 PM
I agree. Even two people who love each other can disagree. And I think TP loves and admires his uncle. Even when he was critizing his uncle, he made statements about how good he usually is.

But he disagrees with him in this situation. I think he is probably going public with this disagreement because of the situation. The two are publicly connected, so he is somewhat judged by his uncles actions and statements and he disagrees with LP's behavior. So does he keep his mouth shut and let people think that he backs what LP is doing? Or does he make his opinions known publicly? He is in a no win situation. Either way he is going to have someone who disagrees with him.

I think he should keep his mouth shut for the sake of the trial. JB is looking for anything to divert attention away from the evidence. If JB can muddy the waters with this nonsense between LP and TP, he will.

TP backed LP from the very beginning by bailing her out in the first place. He could have revoked her bail the minute she refused to help find Caylee. He didn't. He could have put a stop to Casey's ridiculous trips to JBs office all day. He didn't. He said he didn't like the media spotlight but did an interview this morning. Enough of the circus atmosphere surrounding this case. All parties need to refrain from interviews. The prosecution has enough work to do dealing with this scheme team.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 03:18 PM
I think everyone needs to knock off the arrogant facial expressions, but GA especially. Sometimes I wonder if the A's are intentionally trying to screw things up, because they're sadly mistaken if they think they're helping. The jury will see right through it.

The male SA and JBs schoolyard antics are becoming old real quick, and one can only hope they're more serious when this goes to trial. This is SERIOUS business. We're talking about the death of an innocent 3 year old, and a young mother (who is obviously guilty) who will more than likely be convicted of her murder. It's a sad situation all around.

So you guys don't like each other? Great. I don't like you two that much either. But instead of having a smug arrogant attitude (JB) or kicking back and making smirky faces at everything the defense says... how about treat this like the serious situation it is. Take a lesson from the female SA and show that you're better than JB. Kick his butt when it comes to the law and look better than the bumbling idiot that he is.

Bold is mine-

I'm not so sure that they aren't trying to do just that!

Reagan
08-22-2009, 03:22 PM
No, it is not blocked in and it is the A's driveway. If I knew how to do a screenshot, I would.

Oh, it's okay... That was just me making a very bad joke. Sorry.
I think I'll go into hiding for a while. :chicken:

lin
08-22-2009, 03:25 PM
You are reading this all wrong!!! Leonard was very emotional about this case and he REALLY believed that girl was alive. All the input we heard before and while we were there pointed to Caylee being missing not dead. George lied on the stand today. That doesn't mean he is a bad person. Just because he is doing what he thinks is right doesn't mean he has a bad heart. Just like Leonard. He does great things all the time. He lies quite often as well. I'm not throwing anybody under the bus. Just stating facts. After Casey went back to jail there was never a reason to return for a Caylee memorial with that reverand nut. He should have left things alone.

I'll give you credit for a couple of things:

1. You looked GREAT on the Today Show.

2. Way back when, a lot of your opinions weren't popular but you stuck with them then, too.

Now I'll ask you to consider a few things:

1. Suggesting others consider the entire situation and all aspects of the personalities being discussed, their struggles, etc. is a good idea and advice you should take yourself. Being "nice" to someone who is on one's side and doing things for one, (oh, I don't know, maybe putting up a half million dollars or so), should engender no other response. It would be against one's interests to be anything other than 'nice.' The test imo is being civil with those who are not actively supporting one's position physically and/or emotionally; or offering solace and comfort as may be the case now, with your continuing contact.

2. Ted Bundy, I've heard, was really nice too. However, when one takes your own advice and looks at the totality of his personality/actions/circumstances one walks away thinking, 'what a monster' not thinking 'what a nice guy.'

As for your uncle, he is what he is and it's clear you accept him for who he is. You're not saying much that he doesn't say himself. I do not share your disapproval of his actions though. Perhaps through purely selfish motivations, he's done an awful lot for this case including, imo, helping to generate a lot of publicity and thereby indirectly assisting in obtaining funding for the defense dream team.

You know him much better than I, of course, as I've never met him but it seems to me that the A family was very harsh with him and their actions/statements toward him may have been a catalyst for some of his responses. It appears to me that he was very sincere in trying to find Caylee and deeply hurt when his efforts failed. I am one of many that were displeased when the two of you decided to bail KC out of jail but even so, I can't dispute his motives in doing so. That it may have been a 'win-win' as far as garnering desired media time for himself, to my mind, doesn't lesson his generosity or efforts.

It's clear he doesn't share your opinion of the A family for the most part, if his public statements reflect his true feelings. In my personal opinion, I think he has more than ample cause and evidence to support his stated views whether or not anyone agrees with him. What I mean is, it's clear to me that his views aren't malicious or even purely self-serving. I don't think he makes up negative things about the A family to get media time because his observations seem very accurate depictions of the personalities involved.

ETA: Flamboyant cowboys have feelings too, regardless of their age or outward appearance of toughness.

OneLostGrl
08-22-2009, 03:25 PM
Oh, and another thing....if indeed Casey was innocent, WHY are her parent's lying all the time and acting belligerent?
Why would they be so rude to Tim if they truly had wanted Caylee found?
If there is some miracle and Casey is innocent, her parent's are the ones puttin' those nails in her coffin. George is the first one that raised my suspicions in this case and made me interested to watch it. My Hinky meter was on Very High Alert when I saw him on Greta!

!!!AMEN!!
ITA- they are causing more damage than anything. Their "loving words" about their "beautiful daughter" just may be the things that convict her!

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:26 PM
I completely agree that KC's demeanor and appearance is the result of coaching. I expect that after ever appearance that the defense team consults a jury specialist. I'm always a bit surprised that they tend to dress her in poorly fitted clothes. In any case, it doesn't sway my opinion and I would expect it will not sway a juror. I certainly believe that her actions in court (smiling, exchanging notes, pens with JB) would be extremely detrimental to her. She can and will get a fair trial. Probably not in Orlando but in another city. Just find some 30 year olds that are busy raising kids and working. They just do not have time to follow a case that is covered in another city.

I think they'll get a lot of retirees and civil servants. They are the ones who have the time or the generous jury leave. Most of them have grandchildren.

But, if they DO get busy 30- somethings.... they also have young children. That's NOT good for KC.:eek:

whiteangora
08-22-2009, 03:28 PM
Hello WS :)

As far as TP is concerned, did he or didn't he sign an agreement with JB? And, what does he mean he was upset, worried about being (maybe) arrested and that is why he did not get(ask for)a copy of said document?

I respectfully ask how long he has been employed as a bail bondsman? Has he ever been threatened with jail before? Why was he being threatened with jail? Or being arrested?

If something is totally untrue, how can JB sustain this "lie"? Why didn't the judge want to get to the truth. Either these people are beholding under the law to do or not do-or not. Right? I cannot understand why there is no "truth" found?

I am sure the lack of understanding is my own.

...jmo...

TP claims he signed a separate and different agreement that allowed him to be excluded from the agreement between LP and JB. He was being threatened by other Florida bondsmen who felt since he was not licensed in FL he should not be bailing out Casey.
LP and TP said the FL bondsmen were jealous, they got the technicalities worked out in the end obviously.
Forgot to mention that I think TP has been in the bond business for most of his adult life.

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:29 PM
I'll give you credit for a couple of things:

1. You looked GREAT on the Today Show.

2. Way back when, a lot of your opinions weren't popular but you stuck with them then, too.

Now I'll ask you to consider a few things:

1. Suggesting others consider the entire situation and all aspects of the personalities being discussed, their struggles, etc. is a good idea and advice you should take yourself. Being "nice" to someone who is on one's side and doing things for one, (oh, I don't know, maybe putting up a half million dollars or so), should engender no other response. It would be against one's interests to be anything other than 'nice.' The test imo is being civil with those who are not actively supporting one's position physically and/or emotionally; or offering solace and comfort as may be the case now, with your continuing contact.

2. Ted Bundy, I've heard, was really nice too. However, when one takes your own advice and looks at the totality of his personality/actions/circumstances one walks away thinking, 'what a monster' not thinking 'what a nice guy.'

As for your uncle, he is what he is and it's clear you accept him for who he is. You're not saying much that he doesn't say himself. I do not share your disapproval of his actions though. Perhaps through purely selfish motivations, he's done an awful lot for this case including, imo, helping to generate a lot of publicity and thereby indirectly assisting in obtaining funding for the defense dream team.

You know him much better than I, of course, as I've never met him but it seems to me that the A family was very harsh with him and their actions/statements toward him may have been a catalyst for some of his responses. It appears to me that he was very sincere in trying to find Caylee and deeply hurt when his efforts failed. I am one of many that were displeased when the two of you decided to bail KC out of jail but even so, I can't dispute his motives in doing so. That it may have been a 'win-win' as far as garnering desired media time for himself, to my mind, doesn't lesson his generosity or efforts.

It's clear he doesn't share your opinion of the A family for the most part, if his public statements reflect his true feelings. In my personal opinion, I think he has more than ample cause and evidence to support his stated views whether or not anyone agrees with him. What I mean is, it's clear to me that his views aren't malicious or even purely self-serving. I don't think he makes up negative things about the A family to get media time because his observations seem very accurate depictions of the personalities involved.

ETA: Flamboyant cowboys have feelings too, regardless of their age or outward appearance of toughness.

Truth to tell, quite a few of us were opposed to bailing KC's butt out of jail, Tony.

lin
08-22-2009, 03:30 PM
We all pretty much figured out that George lied on the stand today. He was under oath and could he not be charged with perjury? Why would they the SA allow that to happen if they know for a fact he lied. ???:confused:

We can't prove what he knows or remembers. Rest assured, when the trial rolls around, the state will be well prepared with GA's other sworn statements and even his media appearances to "refresh is recollection."

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:31 PM
A little O/T. Is any provision made for inmates who want to get their hair cut? Is there a hairdresser/barber that comes to the jail on a regular basis to provide this service? IMO KC needs to lose that long hair, especially if she is not going to keep it clean. I think that she looked best in the very very short cut that she had a few years ago. It would be very easy to maintain and would add fullness to the long and narrow shape of her face. I know that she is trying for the poor me look, but why go to extremes and look completely disheveled.

Prisons usually have barber/beauty shops.

But, she's still in jail.

She DID buy some nice shampoo/conditioner at the commissary, awhile back.

lee3
08-22-2009, 03:32 PM
Oh, it's okay... That was just me making a very bad joke. Sorry.
I think I'll go into hiding for a while. :chicken:

LOL. Sorry, I missed it.:blowkiss:

lin
08-22-2009, 03:34 PM
No agreement anywhere. That is a bad subject with me. I really messed up leaving without a copy. I really got distracted that day with the Florida Bail Assoc. trying to have me and Leonard areested for soliciting bail in Florida. I lost focus and left Jose's office without a copy.

So are you filing a complaint with the bar? Not having a copy of the agreement doesn't necessarily negate his actions. In fact, it may add to your credibility that JB didn't give you a copy. Knowing you were distracted, he may have purposefully attempted to manipulate the situation just in case he wanted to change the agreement sometime in the future.

You probably are already doing this, especially after JB's proffering a false document, but it's a good idea for everyone to insist on initialing every page of a document they're signing, particularly when the signature page is separate from the agreement.

JBean
08-22-2009, 03:35 PM
the topic is the motions hearing not Tony Padilla. thanks.

if Tony wants to open a Q&A thread that is up to him. if he opens when then have at it.

lin
08-22-2009, 03:37 PM
I have sat back on the sidelines and listened to all this crap. Jose is basically calling me out and I'm not going to let him lie about our agreement and our role in this case. He is not a very trustworthy person as far as I'm concerned. But again that doesn't make him a bad person.

Ok, things are starting to become a bit clearer: So what does make one a bad person if being untrustworthy, lying, etc. doesn't?

lin
08-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Oh, stop being so nice, Baez is BAD, we all know it.:)

ITA. I think what's going on here is TP is a very, very nice person and is just trying to find good in everyone. I don't know if he's religious but imo that's a good Christian attitude that I wish more shared. Of course, I have no issue with calling a spade a spade, an Anthony family member a liar, etc. So long as it's fact based and not malicious, I don't see it as being anything other than earned.

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Makes me wonder if she was rubbing under her eyes with that kleenex to make the dark circles mor prominent.

I just don't believe a talk from ANY woman, let alone someone as unappealing as Ms. Lyons appearance is would have any effect at all on the superficial Miss Anthony. She certainly didn't have any red eyes from all those "big tears" she shed.

Ms L doesn't HAVE to look good.

As she has to do is say, "Look, do what I say or your a-- is gonna be fried. Like an egg"

I am pretty sure Ms L knows EXACTLY how to handle Ms KC. :eek:;-)

whiteangora
08-22-2009, 03:40 PM
I don't know why George persists in being a smart a##. That is not the way to go if he wants to win friends and influence people (thanks Dale Carnegie). He really needs to knock off the arrogant facial expressions and the I don't know what you're talking about pretense. BC needs to have a serious come to Jesus meeting with George and straighten him out regarding his attitude problem. It is not helping KC one bit.

Actually, I hope BC does not talk to them about their arrogant behavior, I wish he would encourage it! It will make things so much easier for the jury.

RR0004
08-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Or, going after the volunteer who had a minor crime, 20 years ago, on the record.

JB is running out of spaghetti to throw against the wall. He's looking to cook up another batch.
But wasn't TM (the attorney) also guilty of "misdoings"?

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:42 PM
IMO...he got it. George is good at playing d**b!

No way an ex-cop and a lawyer don't know EXACTLY what a bail bondsman does.

Reagan
08-22-2009, 03:42 PM
Actually, I hope BC does not talk to them about their arrogant behavior, I wish he would encourage it! It will make things so much easier for the jury.

lol... hmm good point!

Brini
08-22-2009, 03:45 PM
But wasn't TM (the attorney) also guilty of "misdoings"?

Yeah. But, my guess is that if a volunteer, or Mr. Kronk, get a reputation problem because of the defense, there will be a line of pro bono lawyers filing their teeth and sharpening their claws. Maybe drafting complaints to the bar, to go with the civil suits. A sort of legal "matched set," if you will. :eek:

lin
08-22-2009, 03:53 PM
Everybody assumes that Leonard spent an incredible amount of time with Casey. He did not. He was in the car home from the jail with not only Casey but Rob, Jose, Edmond (JOse's paralegal) and another attorney who has since disappeared from the case. Then he tried getting Casey to talk in front of Cindy and Rob and Tracy. That laasted about 2 minutes. That story is VERY interesting but I am not going to ever tell that. That will be out after the trial. Tracy spent by far the most time with Casey. Then Rob and then myself. All this stuff Leonard throws out there is either made up or stuff he got from us.

That's how I recall him presenting things, that he had almost no contact with KC and she through him out of the house when he tried. IIRC, he also credits the sources of his info as being the others in the group.

lin
08-22-2009, 03:55 PM
Well, EVERYONE's business is being impacted by this economy. I'm glad the nutcases are leaving you alone now.

I agree with you about Leonard's actions after Casey was incarcerated, btw. I respect him and think highly of him, but I do think he got carried away with being on TV - especially the memorial at J Blanchard Park. On the other hand, he invested $50,000 in this deal, so I can't blame him for wanting to get his money's worth!

Many were not allowed at the other memorial. I found it very appropriate for LP and the Reverend to mourn Caylee and to allow others who were either not allowed or didn't want to be part of what I feel was a disingenuous spectacle, to attend an alternate memorial.