Katherine Callaway

[nursebeeme]

with the Larry King interview coming up and in light of her rape being connected to Garrido I thought we might need a space just for info on her case (as it may prove insightful into figuring this sicko guy out)... Here are a few articles on her case, the officer that rescued her, etc:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/30/2009-08-30_i_remember_monster_someone_dropped_ball_sez_cop _who_busted_sicko_in_1976_rape_an.html


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/29/2009-08-29_kidnapping_suspect_once_admitted_to_sex_fantasi es_.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/28/2009-08-28_katherine_callaway_who_was_raped_by_.html


(http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/30/2009-08-30_i_remember_monster_someone_dropped_ball_sez_cop _who_busted_sicko_in_1976_rape_an.html#ixzz0Pmx3Ht PY)


The cop soon noticed a light flickering under the shed's rollup door, prompting him to bang on it. A disheveled Garrido, shirtless and wearing jeans, opened the door almost immediately.
"I asked him what he was doing in there," Conrad recalled.
Before Garrido could answer, a female voice cried out from inside the warehouse, and a woman emerged from behind a curtain completely nude. She said she had been kidnapped and raped.
"He didn't seem nervous or anything," Conrad said. "He just said they were boyfriend and girlfriend, and they were just having consensual sex."
Conrad told the woman, later identified as Katherine Callaway (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Katherine+Callaway), to get dressed. His backup arrived soon after and informed him that the license plate had been traced to a car involved in a kidnapping that afternoon


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/30/2009-08-30_i_remember_monster_someone_dropped_ball_sez_cop _who_busted_sicko_in_1976_rape_an.html#ixzz0Pmx3Ht PY (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/30/2009-08-30_i_remember_monster_someone_dropped_ball_sez_cop _who_busted_sicko_in_1976_rape_an.html#ixzz0Pmx3Ht PY)

[ChaCha]

How far away is Jaycee's home from where Catharine was originally abducted?

The reports say a market parking lot in South Lake Tahoe.

Did they look at all sex offenders in the area at the time of Jaycee's abduction?

Why wouldn't they have looked at Garrido?

[eleven]

With all due respect, should we really have a thread solely devoted to a rape victim, that is titled with her name?

I understand the interest and how this case links with other possible crimes of Garridos, but I don't think it's right to post this womans name, openly discuss and disect the horrible rape committed against her.

Putting myself in her shoes, I wouldn't want threads devoted to me and titled with my real name. She has a right to a certain amount of anonymity. As a pro-victim site, we should respect that.

[ChaCha]

I did a search for the school address which is now the
Lake Tahoe Environmental Science Magnet School (http://ltusd.org/ltesms.php)
located at 1095 San Bernardino Ave., South Lake Tahoe, CA 96150

The original abduction was less than 8.2miles approx 14 mins away at:
(not confirmed this is the markey) Safeway, 1020 Johnson Blvd, South Lake Tahoe, CA 96150

Yahoo Map (http://www.yelp.com/map/safeway-food-and-drug-south-lake-tahoe#start:1095%20San%20Bernardino%20Ave.%2C%20So uth%20Lake%20Tahoe%2C%20CA%2096150)

[LinasK]

I did a search for the school address which is now the
Lake Tahoe Environmental Science Magnet School (http://ltusd.org/ltesms.php)
located at 1095 San Bernardino Ave., South Lake Tahoe, CA 96150

The supposed original abduction was less than 8.2miles away at:
Safeway, 1020 Johnson Blvd, South Lake Tahoe, CA 96150

Yahoo Map (http://www.yelp.com/map/safeway-food-and-drug-south-lake-tahoe#start:1095%20San%20Bernardino%20Ave.%2C%20So uth%20Lake%20Tahoe%2C%20CA%2096150)
Actually, Jaycee was attending Meyers Elementary- which I think is still in existance, and she was abducted by her home- 200 yards from the bus stop- in Meyers.

[ChaCha]

With all due respect, should we really have a thread solely devoted to a rape victim, that is titled with her name?

I understand the interest and how this case links with other possible crimes of Garridos, but I don't think it's right to post this womans name, openly discuss and disect the horrible rape committed against her.

Putting myself in her shoes, I wouldn't want threads devoted to me and titled with my real name. She has a right to a certain amount of anonymity. As a pro-victim site, we should respect that.

With all due respect. She's been quoted in the news and is voluntarily coming forward on Larry King tonight.

She's a very brave woman. More should come forward and shatter the silence of rape.

[eleven]

With all due respect. She's been quoted in the news and is voluntarily coming forward on Larry King tonight.

She's a very brave woman. More should come forward and shatter the silence of rape.


My mistake. I didn't know she was going on Larry King and was coming forward. Makes it totally different, then, since she is the coming forward. I suppose I should've read more before sounding off.

I agree that more should come forward and shatter the silence, I just didn't know that she was talking about this. :blowkiss:

[i.b.nora]

Did they look at all sex offenders in the area at the time of Jaycee's abduction?

Why wouldn't they have looked at Garrido?
Because at the time, he lived 170 miles away. And, his previous crime
was not against a child.

[nursebeeme]

Because at the time, he lived 170 miles away. And, his previous crime
was not against a child.

but... and a HUGE BUT....he was still an RSO with ties to that area (per his first kidnapping).. If I were a cop and were looking at past kidnappings I would see his name and want to find out where he was that day...

bringing over this other post from the gps tracking thread as it shows the close proximity of the two crimes:


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - GPS should help put him away? Any Info?

I do agree that LE may have blown him off due to his previous KNOWN victim selection and had on the blinders since it was a child.

[nursebeeme]

I really wonder what car he was driving when he abducted Katherine!!!! Did it match the description of the sedan or the rusty old van? The cops cops should be able to link that up post haste but a lot of good hindsight does now, eh?

[adnoid]

Here is a map from the Washoe County Assessor showing the residence address reported from the 1976 attack:

1855 Market Street, Reno, NV. (http://wcgisweb.washoecounty.us/website/Map_Warehouse/property_viewer.htm?Layers=00000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000001000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000010100000000000001000000 00000000000&ActiveLayer=54&Query=APN=01308131&QueryZoom=Yes&Extent=Auto)

It's now a parking lot - there are still a couple of houses around there but most of the area is now commercial.

The warehouse was reported on Mill street, which is visible on the map to the north and runs all the way to downtown and then almost to Sparks. I'll see if I can find an address, I haven't seen it yet.

[adnoid]

With all due respect. She's been quoted in the news and is voluntarily coming forward on Larry King tonight.

She's a very brave woman. More should come forward and shatter the silence of rape.

I've been in the courtroom when a rape victim was questioned by a defense attorney. It disgusted me. I have nothing but endless admiration for a woman who would stand up like this.

There's no shame in being a robbery victim, there's no shame in being an assault victim, there should be no shame in being a rape victim. I would never look at a rape victim that way and I'm disgusted there are some individuals - and some entire cultures - that do.

[/rant]

[Leila]

I really wonder what car he was driving when he abducted Katherine!!!! Did it match the description of the sedan or the rusty old van? The cops cops should be able to link that up post haste but a lot of good hindsight does now, eh?

He didn't use he own vehicle. Katie was in her own car in the parking lot of a grocery story when he tapped on her window and said he needed a ride to his house, not far away. She said yes and he got in the passenger seat. He directed her to a side street and after she turned down the side street and stopped to let him out, he attacked her - slammed her head into the steering wheel and whipped out handcuffs. He put her in the back seat and drove her to a mini warehouse in Reno, where he raped her.

[LinasK]

<snip>
Callaway, who has since married Jim Hall and goes by her married name, thought that Garrido wouldn't be paroled until at least 2006, she said during an appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live." But a little more than a decade after she was assaulted, she was approached at a Lake Tahoe casino by a man who resembled Garrido. She called prison officials and learned that he had been paroled to California.

"In many ways, the capture of Phillip Garrido has closed a chapter in my life," she wrote on the show's blog. "I don't have to hide anymore. I don't have to live every day of my life wondering if he is looking for me. I am finally free from the fear I have lived with since the day I learned he was paroled."
<snip>
Nearly 33 years ago, on Nov. 22, 1976, Garrido walked up to Callaway's car at a South Lake Tahoe market and asked for a ride, according to court documents. She had planned to cook dinner for her boyfriend and had just bought groceries. She said yes, and they headed off toward Stateline.

Before they hit the California/Nevada border, Callaway pulled to the side of the road to let Garrido out. He grabbed the keys, turned off the engine, handcuffed Callaway and then tied her up "like one of those calves in a rodeo," Lutfy said.

"He talked to her on the way from California to Nevada, took LSD and told her in graphic detail what he was going to do to her when he got her to Nevada," Lutfy said. "This was a sicko."

And he blamed Callaway for his actions, telling her, according to court documents, "that it wasn't intentional that he had taken her, but that it was her fault because she was attractive." Garrido headed to a storage unit he rented in an industrial neighborhood in Reno.

Because Garrido transported Callaway across state lines, the kidnapping became a federal case and went to trial in February 1977. A jury found him guilty, and he was sentenced to 50 years in federal prison. He appealed the decision to the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and lost. read more:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kidnap1-2009sep01,0,347329,full.story

[Leila]

I've been in the courtroom when a rape victim was questioned by a defense attorney. It disgusted me. I have nothing but endless admiration for a woman who would stand up like this.

There's no shame in being a robbery victim, there's no shame in being an assault victim, there should be no shame in being a rape victim. I would never look at a rape victim that way and I'm disgusted there are some individuals - and some entire cultures - that do.

[/rant]

Well said!

Katie Calloway should be applauded for taking a strong stand and telling her story, and her support of Jaycee and her family. :clap:

[nursebeeme]

During Hall's rape trial, Garrido admitted that he exposed himself to girls as young as seven years old. He served 10 years in federal prison and another seven months in a Nevada prison before he was released in 1989


http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=11026142

guess the fact that he was interacting sexually with children (exposing himself to seven year olds!) was OUT THERE IN LEGAL LAND! The more we learn in this case the more pi$$ed I get!!!! So many balls were dropped and mistakes made!!!

[ChaCha]

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerindex?id=8460509

Good interview with 3D computer generated room. Katie and Jim on GMA.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8460220

[nursebeeme]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The man accused of abducting and sexually abusing Jaycee Lee Dugard testified during a previous kidnapping and rape case that he prowled through residential neighborhoods as a Peeping Tom and fantasized about raping women. During his 1977 kidnapping trial, Phillip Garrido also said he leered at girls as young as seven and 10, and he admitted to exposing himself to some of them.


http://www.kmph.com/Global/story.asp?S=11026568&nav=menu612_2_1

(this is halfway down the linked page... it is a news synopsis)

[Missizzy]

It never ceases to amaze me that such terrible human suffering is a required prerequisite for changes to the law. It saddens me that Katherine had to jump through hoops just to find out where her rapist was imprisoned and when he would be released. I can attest to the fact that this has changed for the better.

The Vinelink program can and does work and has been invaluable to my family. Anyone can go to this website and check on the status of a criminal:

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/initMap.do

Victims can register to be notified of changes in custody, etc. Because of the hard work of Oregon Crime Victims United, our family stayed up to date on our children's rapist the whole ten years he was incarcerated. We were prepared by our local DA and the AG's office for his release early this summer. The State Police have notified us of his new address and stayed in contact with me by email. California also has a crime victims' advocacy group:

http://www.crimevictimsunited.com/

These groups deserve our support as they are the ones who work tirelessly to change the laws to reflect needed protections for victims. Their members and administrators are often survivors themselves.

Obviously, this summer has been horribly tense and nerve-wracking for our family. Just knowing that our children's rapist lives 150 miles away from us (and across the street from a busy park) drives us all nuts. But knowledge is power and that is something that Katherine was wrongly denied.

I can't over-state how chilling the fact is to me that PG walked up to Katherine and spoke to her after his release. This is every victim's nightmare. It is a simple case of being totally traumatized again. My prayer is that just the fact that she has gone public will be a catharsis for her.

Hopefully, Jaycee's trauma will bring about positive change in the way our society deals with all aspects of sex offender laws and the supervision of parolees in particular.

[joga]

it made me really mad that the police officer allowed Garrido to go back into the storage room alone with Callaway...where he proceeded to beg her not to turn him in. Can you imagine?! She was scared, abused, confused and the police treated her (seemingly, i understand we're all Monday moning quarterbacking) like some "overdramatic woman"....note to police, if you ever roll up on a guy and a screaming naked woman comes out, you might want to go ahead and get the full sotry before you just go along with the perps story of we're boyfriend and girlfriend and just having drug fueled consensual sex in a storage room.

[ChaCha]

YouTube - Garrido Victim Relives Rape

[Kimster]

Well said!

Katie Calloway should be applauded for taking a strong stand and telling her story, and her support of Jaycee and her family. :clap:

Her name is now in my hero book! I was so impressed with her on LKL. I pray that telling her story helps her heal completely and forever!

[songline]

I actually had a very hard time listening to this. I find it hard to listen to human suffering. :(
I have a very thin skin...My tears just started to roll down, But she is a supper hero, yes she is !

just thinking that a 25 year old could not get away...
How would an 11 year old escape this monster.
Poor Jaycee....She has so much to heal. :blowkiss:

[ChaCha]

Excellent coverage - From Juror Thirteen (http://www.jurorthirteen.com/GeneralCategories/MessageBoards/MessageBoards/tabid/60/forumid/161/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/4081/Default.aspx#4081) URL Snipped for length:
One hour before Phillip Garrido kidnapped Hall, he tried to kidnap another woman in a similar manner, but she got away, according to officials and court records.

Garrido stopped the woman and asked her for a ride on the night of Nov. 22, 1976, Assistant U.S. Attorney Lealand Lutfy told a judge during Garrido’s 1978 trial for kidnapping Katherine Callaway. He got into the car and rode a certain distance before directing her down a different street, as he had with Callaway, Lutfy said.

When they stopped, “Garrido grabbed this woman, put one handcuff on this woman, (but) was unable to put the other one on,” Lutfy said. She struggled with Garrido and jumped out of the car, he said. Garrido agreed to loosen the cuffs if she promised that she wouldn’t tell the police, Lutfy said.

“She refused to get into the vehicle, the vehicle was moving,” Lutfy said. “He undid that one handcuff that was on her, attached to her, jumped out of the car and ran up the street and took off.”

Lutfy tried to introduce the alleged attack as evidence during Garrido’s federal trial in 1978 to show that he was on a mission to abduct a woman on that November night, and was not insane, as his lawyer was suggesting.

[nobody2]

Did anyone see the pictures from when this lady was a young woman? I think she looks a little bit like Jaycee. (And incidentally, Garrido's lawyer looks a little like both his wives?!)

[cleo612]

I posted a copy of the original police report, as well as a statement by Ms. Callaway at the time of the assault in 1976.

WARNING, the police report and victim statements are extremely graphic. The report is a total of 88 pages.

You can find the report, as well as other related pages, at this link:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Official Documents-Audio-Arrest Updates *** No Discussion ***

[JoeFromLB]

...mistakenly labeled as "1977", this is Garrido's Nevada state prison mug shot after he was transferred from federal prison back to Nevada. The date says 1-22-88. Notice the dead eyes.

http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/photos/image_20090903/pgarridomugshot1977adepartmey.jpg

[SWAG1959]

And he doesn't have even a mark where that huge mole is now. I heard nursey say the other day that it looks like a huge melinoma (skin cancer).

[Missizzy]

Am I the only one who has the strongest sense that I've heard about this case before. I'm exactly Katherine's age so I would have been in my 20s. Was there extensive media coverage or possibly was the atrocity used as the basis for a TV movie or film?

I read through the police reports carefully and I was struck by just how close to "every woman's nightmare" this case is. Does anyone else have that reaction? The tapping on the window, the handcuffs, the prepared sex-room, the humiliation, the ultimate saving grace of an observant officer. Katherine lived our horror.

The amazing thing is how strong her voice is now. She's really incredible, isn't she? PG preyed on girls and women but he somehow managed to pick some strong ones. They will prevail.

[kbl8201]

Because at the time, he lived 170 miles away. And, his previous crime
was not against a child.

what about the fact that the gps would have traced him to that area on that day? the real fact of the matter is he, nor any other suspects, were tracked down, for the fact the fbi had focused soley on carl probyn and the number one suspect

[kbl8201]

Am I the only one who has the strongest sense that I've heard about this case before. I'm exactly Katherine's age so I would have been in my 20s. Was there extensive media coverage or possibly was the atrocity used as the basis for a TV movie or film?

I read through the police reports carefully and I was struck by just how close to "every woman's nightmare" this case is. Does anyone else have that reaction? The tapping on the window, the handcuffs, the prepared sex-room, the humiliation, the ultimate saving grace of an observant officer. Katherine lived our horror.

The amazing thing is how strong her voice is now. She's really incredible, isn't she? PG preyed on girls and women but he somehow managed to pick some strong ones. They will prevail.

take what katherine endured and then multiply by 18 years, to an 11 year old child. jaycees strength to survive that long is incredible, and it shows how she will be able to overcome now that she is free

[Anothermom]

And he doesn't have even a mark where that huge mole is now. I heard nursey say the other day that it looks like a huge melinoma (skin cancer).

I think it is a basal cell carcinoma. It did not look like a melanoma to me. Not that I care anyway, but I don't think it is melanoma and basal cell isn't life-threatening...too bad, I know.

[kbl8201]

I think it is a basal cell carcinoma. It did not look like a melanoma to me. Not that I care anyway, but I don't think it is melanoma and basal cell isn't life-threatening...too bad, I know.

yes too bad lol

[meep meep]

She's amazing.



http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/09/02/image5282908x.jpg(CBS)



"Katie now believes, she says, that Garrido was granted early parole because the manipulative sex offender had lied to his parole officer and convinced authorities that she had been his “girlfriend” and had falsely accused him of rape. "


more... (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/03/crimesider/entry5286227.shtml)

[kbl8201]

She's amazing.



http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/09/02/image5282908x.jpg(CBS)



"Katie now believes, she says, that Garrido was granted early parole because the manipulative sex offender had lied to his parole officer and convinced authorities that she had been his “girlfriend” and had falsely accused him of rape. "


more... (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/03/crimesider/entry5286227.shtml)










'
i dont doubt it. looks like hes' using his manipulation of the courts again with this "violated jaycee's rights" garbage.

[jjenny]

Did anyone see the pictures from when this lady was a young woman? I think she looks a little bit like Jaycee. (And incidentally, Garrido's lawyer looks a little like both his wives?!)

I agree regarding Garrido's lawyer. I think she resembles Nancy Garrido.

[kbl8201]

I agree regarding Garrido's lawyer. I think she resembles Nancy Garrido.

katherine was great on dateilne tonight. im glad she has gotten to the point where she can speak out.
makes me wonder if the 14 year old he raped is still too scared to talk or is deceased though

[SunnieRN]

katherine was great on dateilne tonight. im glad she has gotten to the point where she can speak out.
makes me wonder if the 14 year old he raped is still too scared to talk or is deceased though

Or perhaps feeling guilty for not speaking out? Poor thing, she must have had a million different fears and reservations!

[kbl8201]

Or perhaps feeling guilty for not speaking out? Poor thing, she must have had a million different fears and reservations!

knowing the year it happened (19720 im sure she probably felt humiliated by going to the cops and da's with the attitudes towards rape back then, particuarly acquantince rape.

[SunnieRN]

knowing the year it happened (19720 im sure she probably felt humiliated by going to the cops and da's with the attitudes towards rape back then, particuarly acquantince rape.

She also got into the car and used drugs willingly. Not judging here at all, but maybe even if she wanted to press charges, the DA is the one who refused ultimately?

[Natal]

Dual post ;)

[Natal]

Nevermind

[Natal]

katherine was great on dateilne tonight. im glad she has gotten to the point where she can speak out.
makes me wonder if the 14 year old he raped is still too scared to talk or is deceased though

The reason they know about her is that she contacted the police after Jaycee was found. The original case files had been lost IIRC.

[kbl8201]

She also got into the car and used drugs willingly. Not judging here at all, but maybe even if she wanted to press charges, the DA is the one who refused ultimately?

dateline said she refused to testify.
bit that could be cause the cops or da pressured her not to for all we know

[kbl8201]

The reason they know about her is that she contacted the police after Jaycee was found. The original case files had been lost IIRC.

didnt know that, thanks

[nobody2]

The Dateline show last night was the first time I saw mentioned that Garrido had actually come back to see her after he got out of prison? Ordered a drink from her and said "I hope I see you again real soon" or something like that? And that after he walked away she realized who he was? Eeeeek? That sounds almost like a threat, to me. I wish she had reported that at the time, surely if you find your victim and seek her out to say something like that it would be a parole violation?! (Or maybe she did report it?) Very odd. Would that the guy had gotten locked up again at that point. Would have eased her mind and saved other girls too! (I don't mean ANY disrespect to ms. Callaway here, I think she is a very courageous woman!)

Edited to link article about what I was asking:http://www.lvrj.com/news/59169212.html

[jjenny]

The Dateline show last night was the first time I saw mentioned that Garrido had actually come back to see her after he got out of prison? Ordered a drink from her and said "I hope I see you again real soon" or something like that? And that after he walked away she realized who he was? Eeeeek? That sounds almost like a threat, to me. I wish she had reported that at the time, surely if you find your victim and seek her out to say something like that it would be a parole violation?! (Or maybe she did report it?) Very odd. Would that the guy had gotten locked up again at that point. Would have eased her mind and saved other girls too! (I don't mean ANY disrespect to ms. Callaway here, I think she is a very courageous woman!)

Do you seriously think she was o'key with Garrido being out there? According to her she had talked to Garrido's parole officer and the officer told her that Garrido was a "sick puppy" but that nothing could be done about it.

[Tizzle]

The Dateline show last night was the first time I saw mentioned that Garrido had actually come back to see her after he got out of prison? Ordered a drink from her and said "I hope I see you again real soon" or something like that? And that after he walked away she realized who he was? Eeeeek? That sounds almost like a threat, to me. I wish she had reported that at the time, surely if you find your victim and seek her out to say something like that it would be a parole violation?! (Or maybe she did report it?) Very odd. Would that the guy had gotten locked up again at that point. Would have eased her mind and saved other girls too! (I don't mean ANY disrespect to ms. Callaway here, I think she is a very courageous woman!)

She said she reported it and was told by his PO, "What do you want me to tell you? He's a sick puppy." What's sick to me is that this apparently didn't violate the conditions of his parole, automatically terminating them.
God bless Mrs. Callaway for her courage and for all that she has endured, as well.

[nobody2]

She said she reported it and was told by his PO, "What do you want me to tell you? He's a sick puppy." What's sick to me is that this didn't automatically terminate the conditions.
God bless Mrs. Callaway for her courage and for all that she has endured, as well.

Thank you both for answering me, I did just google it and found the rest of the story. Poor woman has been living in fear all these years! unbelievable, just unbelievable.

[nobody2]

Do you seriously think she was o'key with Garrido being out there? According to her she had talked to Garrido's parole officer and the officer told her that Garrido was a "sick puppy" but that nothing could be done about it.

No of course I would not think she was OK with it! But I didn't realize (till I just read it for myself in the article linked above) that the authorities just dismissed it! Unbelievable!

[jjenny]

No of course I would not think she was OK with it! But I didn't realize (till I just read it for myself in the article linked above) that the authorities just dismissed it! Unbelievable!

According to her, Garrido's parole officer told her if Garrido will do something it will not be directed at her. But how would he know?
I believe she had left the city she were in after that episode.

[my2sisters]

She also got into the car and used drugs willingly. Not judging here at all, but maybe even if she wanted to press charges, the DA is the one who refused ultimately?

How do you know she took the drugs willingly? Wasn't she 14 or 15 and perhaps unaware of what she was doing? I was just a few years older than her and lived a block away from where she got into his car. I don't remember ever seeing drugs until I left the area years later. She may not have been responsible (old) enough to know what she was doing but he sure did!

[kbl8201]

How do you know she took the drugs willingly? Wasn't she 14 or 15 and perhaps unaware of what she was doing? I was just a few years older than her and lived a block away from where she got into his car. I don't remember ever seeing drugs until I left the area years later. She may not have been responsible (old) enough to know what she was doing but he sure did!

he drugged her and raped her was the gist i got.
even if she wasnt drugged and consented it was still stat rape

[songline]

And he doesn't have even a mark where that huge mole is now. I heard nursey say the other day that it looks like a huge melinoma (skin cancer).
With a life time in jail at our Tax money, I have no idea why they are helping this SOB get cured of melinoma, while there are hard working poor people who are left to fend for themselves if they can? :furious: :furious: :furious:

[songline]

She also got into the car and used drugs willingly. Not judging here at all, but maybe even if she wanted to press charges, the DA is the one who refused ultimately?

BBM
There was a time when we can hitch hike cross country and not worry about an abduction.
The Hippie Generation traveled this way from one end of the US to the other.
I too used to hitch hick back then, those were very different times....
but today, I do not let my friends kids, or grand kids out of my sight.
That is the rule if they want to go anywhere with me. It was a very different time when KC got in his car, or if she picked him up. It was done all over america.

[Natal]

BBM
There was a time when we can hitch hike cross country and not worry about an abduction.
The Hippie Generation traveled this way from one end of the US to the other.
I too used to hitch hick back then, those were very different times....
but today, I do not let my friends kids, or grand kids out of my sight.
That is the rule if they want to go anywhere with me. It was a very different time when KC got in his car.

She didn't get into his car, he got into hers.

[my2sisters]

She didn't get into his car, he got into hers.

I think there was some confusion about the topic. We were talking about the girl in ANtioch that got into PG's car at the library.

[Natal]

I think there was some confusion about the topic. We were talking about the girl in ANtioch that got into PG's car at the library.

Ya, but she was talking about KC, who is the topic of the thread.

[songline]

I think there was some confusion about the topic. We were talking about the girl in ANtioch that got into PG's car at the library.
The reply I gave is the same, there was a time that it was safe to do that;
we all hopped around the country that way with no danger. "Hitch Hiking"
Times now are certainly different.

[songline]

Ya, but she was talking about KC, who is the topic of the thread.


the essence of my post was not about who got in the car, it was clearly about a time in history when we all got into strangers cars and got a lift somwhere, We called it hitch hiking.
Yes you are right, KC is the topic and I did refer to her in my post.

[Joanie]

BBM
There was a time when we can hitch hike cross country and not worry about an abduction.
The Hippie Generation traveled this way from one end of the US to the other.
I too used to hitch hick back then, those were very different times....(snip)


Then again, it may be that many people were molested and killed while hitchhiking, but it wasn't as widely reported. We are so interconnected now, our perceptions have changed. We report crimes that in older times were shrugged off. We search databases from across the country, instead of just knowing what our local paper said.
My family lived in a bad part of town. In the 60's, there were drugs, gangs, rapes, murders, beatings, etc but they rarely were reported. If a young girl got into a car with a stranger and ended up molested or dead, well, 'she deserved it'. That was the tone of the times, it wasn't taken as seriously. If a hippy girl ended up in a bad situation, she may never speak of it.

My own feeling is that we lost our innocence, but our innocence was always an artificial construct of society. In fact, I would suggest that because we prosecute them more diligently, that there are FEWER crimes as a percentage of population than there were in the 60's, if you could really compare apples to apples.

But keeping our loved ones safely in sight, that is always a good idea.:grouphug:

[songline]

Then again, it may be that many people were molested and killed while hitchhiking, but it wasn't as widely reported. We are so interconnected now, our perceptions have changed. We report crimes that in older times were shrugged off. We search databases from across the country, instead of just knowing what our local paper said.
My family lived in a bad part of town. In the 60's, there were drugs, gangs, rapes, murders, beatings, etc but they rarely were reported. If a young girl got into a car with a stranger and ended up molested or dead, well, 'she deserved it'. That was the tone of the times, it wasn't taken as seriously. If a hippie girl ended up in a bad situation, she may never speak of it.

My own feeling is that we lost our innocence, but our innocence was always an artificial construct of society. In fact, I would suggest that because we prosecute them more diligently, that there are FEWER crimes as a percentage of population than there were in the 60's, if you could really compare apples to apples.

But keeping our loved ones safely in sight, that is always a good idea.:grouphug:

Hi Joanie, while it is true that we now have more access to information, and more safety laws.
I can not say that we live in a safer time. :(
YES we have more awareness today, while that is great. We also do live in a new era.
Less Safe then when I and my friends ran around, thumb out and on the go.

I remember that when I had my kids; they used to go out to play and I did not worry about it at all.
They came in at dinner time; today I take the kids to controlled environments, and never send them
out side without me or an adult,
I NEVER even let them in the elevator without a grown up. (I live in a big city)

This Hippie girl used to hitch hike, I never got in any trouble, nor did anyone I ever knew.
I Hitch Hiked in NY, FLA, LA, LV, COLO, AZ.....and OVERSEAS too.... :)

Today the concept of hitch hiking, one would have to be nuts to consider it.
But I am in my 60's not sure how old you are. Maybe you are much younger....
IMO Times were very different. MUCH SAFER. Not one of us ever got into any problems.

[kbl8201]

With a life time in jail at our Tax money, I have no idea why they are helping this SOB get cured of melinoma, while there are hard working poor people who are left to fend for themselves if they can? :furious: :furious: :furious:

dont forget if jaycee or the girls had gotten cancer, he would have let them die since he couldnt take them to a hospital. bastard.

[kbl8201]

I think there was some confusion about the topic. We were talking about the girl in ANtioch that got into PG's car at the library.

think the fact that he got away with that rape because of the factors around it enboldended him to continue......hence why he tried to claim to the cops that katherine was his "girlfriend"

[Billylee]

Hi Joanie, while it is true that we now have more access to information, and more safety laws.
I can not say that we live in a safer time. :(
YES we have more awareness today, while that is great. We also do live in a new era.
Less Safe then when I and my friends ran around, thumb out and on the go.

I remember that when I had my kids; they used to go out to play and I did not worry about it at all.
They came in at dinner time; today I take the kids to controlled environments, and never send them
out side without me or an adult,
I NEVER even let them in the elevator without a grown up. (I live in a big city)

This Hippie girl used to hitch hike, I never got in any trouble, nor did anyone I ever knew.
I Hitch Hiked in NY, FLA, LA, LV, COLO, AZ.....and OVERSEAS too.... :)

Today the concept of hitch hiking, one would have to be nuts to consider it.
But I am in my 60's not sure how old you are. Maybe you are much younger....
IMO Times were very different. MUCH SAFER. Not one of us ever got into any problems.


I'm from that era also. Though I wasn't a "hitcher", I had plenty of friends who hitch-hiked all over the place, and we did pick up a a few hitch-hikers in the 60's & 70's here and there (get this, most likely when we were camping in places like South Lake Tahoe or Strawberry Lake). I grew up in Hayward, we didn't even lock our doors during the day in the 50's and early 60's, unless we were going away for quite awhile; sometimes we didn't even lock them at night....but then, somewhere along the way, it all changed. Were we all just "lucky"? Is it simply a matter of more population equals more "problem people". Is it paranoia because we HEAR more about these events? I don't know, but it all seems very different to me now, doors are locked, even when driving a car. That would have been unheard of back then. Bad things WERE happening back then, (e.g., PG 1972), but maybe it's true that we just weren't made aware of it, or were still so naive from the 60's that we just KNEW it would never happen to us. I don't know. It's sad though when I think about all the kids who will NEVER know what it's like to be able to walk to school, or hang out after school and play outside til dark like we all did. (And after dark, for that matter.) I wonder how much it has to do with people not being home and not knowing one another. I mean, when I was growing up, most mother's were at home...there was always someone's house you could run to....everyone KNEW everyone...we were "neighbors" not just the people that lived next door. Sad, but I don't think that "neighborhood security" is ever coming back.

[kbl8201]

I'm from that era also. Though I wasn't a "hitcher", I had plenty of friends who hitch-hiked all over the place, and we did pick up a a few hitch-hikers in the 60's & 70's here and there (get this, most likely when we were camping in places like South Lake Tahoe or Strawberry Lake). I grew up in Hayward, we didn't even lock our doors during the day in the 50's and early 60's, unless we were going away for quite awhile; sometimes we didn't even lock them at night....but then, somewhere along the way, it all changed. Were we all just "lucky"? Is it simply a matter of more population equals more "problem people". Is it paranoia because we HEAR more about these events? I don't know, but it all seems very different to me now, doors are locked, even when driving a car. That would have been unheard of back then. Bad things WERE happening back then, (e.g., PG 1972), but maybe it's true that we just weren't made aware of it, or were still so naive from the 60's that we just KNEW it would never happen to us. I don't know. It's sad though when I think about all the kids who will NEVER know what it's like to be able to walk to school, or hang out after school and play outside til dark like we all did. (And after dark, for that matter.) I wonder how much it has to do with people not being home and not knowing one another. I mean, when I was growing up, most mother's were at home...there was always someone's house you could run to....everyone KNEW everyone...we were "neighbors" not just the people that lived next door. Sad, but I don't think that "neighborhood security" is ever coming back.

maybe its just a wway we loo at diffrent eras. crime in the "wild west" in the late 19th century had higher murder rates then modern day new york or los angeles.

[LinasK]

She also got into the car and used drugs willingly. Not judging here at all, but maybe even if she wanted to press charges, the DA is the one who refused ultimately?
No, according to her story, Garrido approached her for a ride, and got into her car. He also plied her with drugs.

[Joanie]

Songline, I'm a little younger than you are, but not much. :crazy: But I grew up in Los Angeles, in a tough area. Our perceptions are so different! My brother and I weren't able to play in our own front yard (1961-74) A bullet lodged itself into the wall of my grandmother's bedroom, just above the bed where she was sleeping. There were always gang fights. I would no more have gotten into a car with someone....! In fact, you didn't look people in the eye. Interestingly enough, that part of town has gentrified and is now safer than it was. Crime moves on.
Here's what Wikipedia says about the crime rate:
"The crime rate is measured by the number of offenses being reported per 100,000 people. While the crime rate had risen sharply in the late 1960s and early 1970s, bringing it to a constant all-time high during much of the 1970s and 1980s, it has drastically declined ever since 1991. One hypothesis suggests there is a causal link between legalized abortion and the drop in crime during the 1990s.[3] In 2004 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1970, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1965. Overall, the national crime rate was 4982 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 4852 crimes per 100,000 residents thirty years earlier in 1974 (-17.6%).[4]"

I really do think that we are more aware of crime than we used to be. Gosh, looking back at all of the abducted children from the 60's and 70's, especially the ones that are still unsolved... and the rise in the drug culture probably didn't help either!

And it's a darned good thing that we are so aware. If we weren't as careful, we wouldn't have Amber Alerts, police forces looking for children quickly, databases and forums like this one!

Back to the topic....

[Natal]

I'm from that era also. Though I wasn't a "hitcher", I had plenty of friends who hitch-hiked all over the place, and we did pick up a a few hitch-hikers in the 60's & 70's here and there (get this, most likely when we were camping in places like South Lake Tahoe or Strawberry Lake). I grew up in Hayward, we didn't even lock our doors during the day in the 50's and early 60's, unless we were going away for quite awhile; sometimes we didn't even lock them at night....but then, somewhere along the way, it all changed. Were we all just "lucky"? Is it simply a matter of more population equals more "problem people". Is it paranoia because we HEAR more about these events? I don't know, but it all seems very different to me now, doors are locked, even when driving a car. That would have been unheard of back then. Bad things WERE happening back then, (e.g., PG 1972), but maybe it's true that we just weren't made aware of it, or were still so naive from the 60's that we just KNEW it would never happen to us. I don't know. It's sad though when I think about all the kids who will NEVER know what it's like to be able to walk to school, or hang out after school and play outside til dark like we all did. (And after dark, for that matter.) I wonder how much it has to do with people not being home and not knowing one another. I mean, when I was growing up, most mother's were at home...there was always someone's house you could run to....everyone KNEW everyone...we were "neighbors" not just the people that lived next door. Sad, but I don't think that "neighborhood security" is ever coming back.

I don't think that things are more dangerous now, mostly people are just more paranoid. The ready and immediate access to news, as well as the tabloid style of modern reporting, make people more scared. It ends up becoming a sort of arms race, where people take measures to make themselves "safer", but bad things still happen, so they take more and more measures. Plus you get third parties getting involved, being critical that you are "not doing enough". Taken to extremes it can make your life worse than it otherwise would have been.

[songline]

Songline, I'm a little younger than you are, but not much. :crazy: But I grew up in Los Angeles, in a tough area. Our perceptions are so different! My brother and I weren't able to play in our own front yard (1961-74) A bullet lodged itself into the wall of my grandmother's bedroom, just above the bed where she was sleeping. There were always gang fights. I would no more have gotten into a car with someone....! In fact, you didn't look people in the eye. Interestingly enough, that part of town has gentrified and is now safer than it was. Crime moves on.
Here's what Wikipedia says about the crime rate:
"The crime rate is measured by the number of offenses being reported per 100,000 people. While the crime rate had risen sharply in the late 1960s and early 1970s, bringing it to a constant all-time high during much of the 1970s and 1980s, it has drastically declined ever since 1991. One hypothesis suggests there is a causal link between legalized abortion and the drop in crime during the 1990s.[3] In 2004 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1970, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1965. Overall, the national crime rate was 4982 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 4852 crimes per 100,000 residents thirty years earlier in 1974 (-17.6%).[4]"

I really do think that we are more aware of crime than we used to be. Gosh, looking back at all of the abducted children from the 60's and 70's, especially the ones that are still unsolved... and the rise in the drug culture probably didn't help either!

And it's a darned good thing that we are so aware. If we weren't as careful, we wouldn't have Amber Alerts, police forces looking for children quickly, databases and forums like this one!

Back to the topic....

Wow Joanie it is as if we both grew up in another world and yet we are both of the same country.

Yes the world is far more conscious and aware today. Thank God.

I am so grateful to have grown up in a time when innocence was a given, and also Lucky that wherever we went, we was safe.
The first times I remember a nut on the loose was the son of Sam, Maybe it was the Sharon Tate murderers, and we did not hitchhike at that time, we all stayed home till we felt safe again. I think I did this throughout the 1970's and I stopped about 1980.

[songline]

I'm from that era also. Though I wasn't a "hitcher", I had plenty of friends who hitch-hiked all over the place, and we did pick up a a few hitch-hikers in the 60's & 70's here and there (get this, most likely when we were camping in places like South Lake Tahoe or Strawberry Lake). I grew up in Hayward, we didn't even lock our doors during the day in the 50's and early 60's, unless we were going away for quite awhile; sometimes we didn't even lock them at night....but then, somewhere along the way, it all changed. Were we all just "lucky"? Is it simply a matter of more population equals more "problem people". Is it paranoia because we HEAR more about these events? I don't know, but it all seems very different to me now, doors are locked, even when driving a car. That would have been unheard of back then. Bad things WERE happening back then, (e.g., PG 1972), but maybe it's true that we just weren't made aware of it, or were still so naive from the 60's that we just KNEW it would never happen to us. I don't know. It's sad though when I think about all the kids who will NEVER know what it's like to be able to walk to school, or hang out after school and play outside til dark like we all did. (And after dark, for that matter.) I wonder how much it has to do with people not being home and not knowing one another. I mean, when I was growing up, most mother's were at home...there was always someone's house you could run to....everyone KNEW everyone...we were "neighbors" not just the people that lived next door. Sad, but I don't think that "neighborhood security" is ever coming back.

Those were the "Good ol days" :)

[SunnieRN]

How do you know she took the drugs willingly? Wasn't she 14 or 15 and perhaps unaware of what she was doing? I was just a few years older than her and lived a block away from where she got into his car. I don't remember ever seeing drugs until I left the area years later. She may not have been responsible (old) enough to know what she was doing but he sure did!

As I said, I was not judging her. I was referring to the DA who may have refused to prosecute the case due to the fact that she willingly got in to the car and she had drugs in her system. Do I think that is right? Of course not. Just throwing out a reason why she may not have pressed charges.

No, according to her story, Garrido approached her for a ride, and got into her car. He also plied her with drugs.

This was in regards to the case in Antioch, where the two teenage girls got into the car being driven by pg.

[kbl8201]

As I said, I was not judging her. I was referring to the DA who may have refused to prosecute the case due to the fact that she willingly got in to the car and she had drugs in her system. Do I think that is right? Of course not. Just throwing out a reason why she may not have pressed charges.



This was in regards to the case in Antioch, where the two teenage girls got into the car being driven by pg.

dont get why the case was dropped, did she refuse to testify cause she was scared of what the defense attorney would use on the stand? or did the prosecution think that a 14 year old girl getting in a car with a 21 year old was "asking for it' :banghead::banghead::banghead:

[SunnieRN]

dont get why the case was dropped, did she refuse to testify cause she was scared of what the defense attorney would use on the stand? or did the prosecution think that a 14 year old girl getting in a car with a 21 year old was "asking for it' :banghead::banghead::banghead:

No one knows why, but she refused to testify against pg. Could have had to do with her parents, the DA or could have even been death threats made by pg against her, her parents or friends. There is no way to know without her coming forward and saying why. It was a different attitude at that time in society. Not one for the better for sure!

[kbl8201]

No one knows why, but she refused to testify against pg. Could have had to do with her parents, the DA or could have even been death threats made by pg against her, her parents or friends. There is no way to know without her coming forward and saying why. It was a different attitude at that time in society. Not one for the better for sure!

well she 'refused to tesitfy" so all those are possibilties.
its also a possibility the prosecution told her 1) she would probably not be believed or 2) they couldnt win the case either way

[Tizzle]

Bump for Katie. She really needs to be in everyone's thoughts and prayers today and through this entire process. She has to face a lot of dark places in order to do this for herself, JC and for others. She is the epitome of what makes us proud to be women. :angel:

ETA:

http://cbs13.com/jayceelee/callaway.jaycee.garrido.2.1279063.html

Good video clip here. I hope she can overcome her guilt. She is a victim that was fearful and the ONLY people responsible for this are P&NG (and maybe PF), not her at all. I feel so horrible for her. Her grief is extremely evident. What a beautiful person for coming forward in such a way. Bless her wonderful heart.

[SunnieRN]

Bump for Katie. She really needs to be in everyone's thoughts and prayers today and through this entire process. She has to face a lot of dark places in order to do this for herself, JC and for others. She is the epitome of what makes us proud to be women. :angel:

ETA:

http://cbs13.com/jayceelee/callaway.jaycee.garrido.2.1279063.html

Good video clip here. I hope she can overcome her guilt. She is a victim that was fearful and the ONLY people responsible for this are P&NG (and maybe PF), not her at all. I feel so horrible for her. Her grief is extremely evident. What a beautiful person for coming forward in such a way. Bless her wonderful heart.

Her statement of guilt is heartbreaking! She not only testified against him, but she reported him immediately when he showed up in Lake Tahoe at her roulette table. The parole officers were out of bounds at that point even, as he was supposed to be living with patricia or was in the 1/2 way house then. Either way, he crossed state lines and I am sure he did not inform his parole officer prior to going!

"What is the purpose of your trip to Nevada phillip?"

"I'm going to go frighten the living c*** out of the victim, so she can live in fear until I am caught for another crime"

"Sure, just don't touch her."

Ok I know this is crazy talk, and didn't happen, but that is how lacking his parole supervision (federal parole no less), was from the beginning. Sickening!

Thank you Katie, you are an inspiration!

[kbl8201]

Her statement of guilt is heartbreaking! She not only testified against him, but she reported him immediately when he showed up in Lake Tahoe at her roulette table. The parole officers were out of bounds at that point even, as he was supposed to be living with patricia or was in the 1/2 way house then. Either way, he crossed state lines and I am sure he did not inform his parole officer prior to going!

"What is the purpose of your trip to Nevada phillip?"

"I'm going to go frighten the living c*** out of the victim, so she can live in fear until I am caught for another crime"

"Sure, just don't touch her."

Ok I know this is crazy talk, and didn't happen, but that is how lacking his parole supervision (federal parole no less), was from the beginning. Sickening!

Thank you Katie, you are an inspiration!

and no one even warned her he was out........she thought he wasnt even eligible till like 2002.
its sad that the only people in this case that i've heard blame themselves for what happened to jaycee, are jaycee, and katie.
katie, it took a lot of courage to put him away. you did all you could do. LE failed, you, jaycee, all of us.
and it took a lot of courage to stare him down in court yesterday. i know she was still terrified, but she did it anyways.

[anthroamy]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33547694/ns/today-today_people/

The above link is to a wonderful article on the amazing Katherine Callaway Hall. It pains me to hear that she blames herself and is having to re-open these old wounds. I have so much admiration for this woman. While I would never, ever begrudge a survivor their anonymity, I am very glad that she has come forward to share her story and strength, and to show Garrido that he has not destroyed her. I hope it will be an inspiration to Jaycee, as it has been to all of us. I also hope that all the pain she is going through now allows her to process more of what she went through then and continue to heal.

By coming forward in the ways that they have, both Katherine and Jaycee have shown Garrido that he failed completely. His love is to totally dominate, subdue, and control women. Jaycee and Katherine refuse to go away and hide, and instead share their stories about overcoming his abuses. Even the survivor who was 14 when he kidnapped and raped her placed a call to LE in an effort to ensure justice was served. All are amazing.

[kbl8201]

:dance:http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33547694/ns/today-today_people/

The above link is to a wonderful article on the amazing Katherine Callaway Hall. It pains me to hear that she blames herself and is having to re-open these old wounds. I have so much admiration for this woman. While I would never, ever begrudge a survivor their anonymity, I am very glad that she has come forward to share her story and strength, and to show Garrido that he has not destroyed her. I hope it will be an inspiration to Jaycee, as it has been to all of us. I also hope that all the pain she is going through now allows her to process more of what she went through then and continue to heal.

By coming forward in the ways that they have, both Katherine and Jaycee have shown Garrido that he failed completely. His love is to totally dominate, subdue, and control women. Jaycee and Katherine refuse to go away and hide, and instead share their stories about overcoming his abuses. Even the survivor who was 14 when he kidnapped and raped her placed a call to LE in an effort to ensure justice was served. All are amazing.

:dance:

[SunnieRN]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33547694/ns/today-today_people/

The above link is to a wonderful article on the amazing Katherine Callaway Hall. It pains me to hear that she blames herself and is having to re-open these old wounds. I have so much admiration for this woman. While I would never, ever begrudge a survivor their anonymity, I am very glad that she has come forward to share her story and strength, and to show Garrido that he has not destroyed her. I hope it will be an inspiration to Jaycee, as it has been to all of us. I also hope that all the pain she is going through now allows her to process more of what she went through then and continue to heal.

By coming forward in the ways that they have, both Katherine and Jaycee have shown Garrido that he failed completely. His love is to totally dominate, subdue, and control women. Jaycee and Katherine refuse to go away and hide, and instead share their stories about overcoming his abuses. Even the survivor who was 14 when he kidnapped and raped her placed a call to LE in an effort to ensure justice was served. All are amazing.

Fantastic post!!!!! I hope that if there are any other victims they will feel compelled to come forward also!

[LinasK]

Bump for Katie. She really needs to be in everyone's thoughts and prayers today and through this entire process. She has to face a lot of dark places in order to do this for herself, JC and for others. She is the epitome of what makes us proud to be women. :angel:

ETA:

http://cbs13.com/jayceelee/callaway.jaycee.garrido.2.1279063.html

Good video clip here. I hope she can overcome her guilt. She is a victim that was fearful and the ONLY people responsible for this are P&NG (and maybe PF), not her at all. I feel so horrible for her. Her grief is extremely evident. What a beautiful person for coming forward in such a way. Bless her wonderful heart.
I hope Katie is there to haunt and terrorize Garrido at every hearing, court appearance, and sentencing for what he put her through!!!:furious:
Katie you are an extremely brave and courageous woman and I'm glad Jaycee will have you at her side for support when she has to testify.

[adnoid]

I hope Katie is there to haunt and terrorize Garrido at every hearing, court appearance, and sentencing for what he put her through!!!:furious:
Katie you are an extremely brave and courageous woman and I'm glad Jaycee will have you at her side for support when she has to testify.

It drives me crazy that these hearing are repeatedly and constantly postponed by the defense lawyers after everyone is sitting there. It a repeated revictimization of the victims.

[kbl8201]

It drives me crazy that these hearing are repeatedly and constantly postponed by the defense lawyers after everyone is sitting there. It a repeated revictimization of the victims.

sadly this is the lawyers job.
especially in a case where the defendent is stone cold guilty and has no chance of acquittal.

[adnoid]

sadly this is the lawyers job.
especially in a case where the defendent is stone cold guilty and has no chance of acquittal.

That may be, but it does not make it honorable or right.

[kbl8201]

That may be, but it does not make it honorable or right.

your preaching to the choir.
after the case i helped on 3 years ago my opinion sank to the lowest i've had of them since the oj trial.