The Sante Kimes trial

[yadler]

I know that this doesn't belong on this board, but I spent the day at the Kimes trial today. Will return Monday in expectation that Mama will testify. You want to talk about rivetting. Kenny Kimes' testimony (part II) gives new meaning to the word "intense."

[LinasK]

I saw on CTV's website, that Sante "wished him well" as he went off to murder a family friend... Sicko!!!

[LNL]

:eek:
Those 2 remind me of Jackie and Scott Peterson. Each resembles the other and they seem to have an *odd* relationship. Never have been able to get the similarities out of my mind.

[yadler]

The woman (writer) who was on Courttv sat behind me. I told her that I had read her book after which she told me that she would give me an autograph. I demurred, saying that I really didn't need it. But I got it anyhow. She's obnoxious but a walking encyclopedia on the case.
What a fascinating day in court. Unlike anything I have ever experienced. The prosecution's case is ended and now Sante wants 40 witnesses or, her lawyer said, she doesn't feel that she will get a fair trial. Judge KAthleen Kennedy-Powell answered, "I'm sorry to hear your clent feels that way." KK-P was the presiding judge at the Simpson preliminary hearing.

[yadler]

Met a writer who is doing a book. She said that the relationship is something she is investigating thoroughly. Everyone glibbly says incense but she is doing a really intense research. She wrote a major piece in VAnity Fair on a similar scene before Irene Silverman was murdered by the duo. Know what thwarted it? The owner of the house had a dog which Sante was deathly afraid of.
Anyhow, the parting words of Kimes's attorney, "my client wants 40 witness" and I muttered that all the way to my car. Not even laughing, just shaking my head.

[lisafremont]

I visited the courtroom during jury deliberations when the Kimeses were on trial in Manhattan.

If you know about that case, that of the murder of Irene Silverman, then you know that there are parallels worth quoting to the SODDI Brigade which like to assert that there is "no evidence" against SP. What they are saying, of course, is that there may be little or no physical evidence against SP.

But then I would remind them of the case of NYS v. Sante and Kenneth Kimes in which there was:
NO body even
NO blood
NO crime scene
NO time of death
NO cause of death

All there was was CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. And it was compelling. And it was enough to convict the mother and son, despite all that the DA lacked. But no matter how often I tell them about this case and another with similar circumstances, and identical outcome, they keep repeating their mindless mantra: There's no evidence. SP is innocent.

It's willfully ignorant, IMO.

[yadler]

Thank you, lisafremont. Right on target. Nada, nothing except, maybe, Sante Kimes's "To-do" lists. But the circumstantial evidence (along with Dr. Bierbaum ?) convicted both times.

[yadler]

Kenny Kimes repeated the "family" mantra today of Sante's "No body, no murder." Added to that was Sante's habit of disposing of bodies in dumpsters and you have the answer as to what happened to Irene Silverman.

[lisafremont]

Yeah, similar to Dr. Robert Bierenbaum, also convicted.

That "no body, no murder" mantra reminds me of this case in that I think we all agree that SP thought Laci was gone for good. And with no body there would be no case, no charges, no trial, no prosecution. He'd be free by the end of January to go on with his grubby little life. I guess he never heard of Chandra Levy and how publicized that was.

He's a killer, but like many first-time murderers, not a very good one. IMO OC

[AtomicDog]

I too was "in court" on numerous occasions for the Sante and Kenny Kimes trial when it was in Manhattan. Really STRANGE case! Even though I believe they are guilty - I don't believe that a resonable amount of circumstancial evidence was provided to give them the sentence they received. I knew the defense attorneys and met the prosecutors. Hey - Sante even called me at home once.... that was really strange.... oh well :eek:

[yadler]

I too was "in court" on numerous occasions for the Sante and Kenny Kimes trial when it was in Manhattan. Really STRANGE case! Even though I believe they are guilty - I don't believe that a resonable amount of circumstancial evidence was provided to give them the sentence they received. I knew the defense attorneys and met the prosecutors. Hey - Sante even called me at home once.... that was really strange.... oh well :eek:

She was on the witness stand again today. Kenny-Boy seems to have spilled his entire guts to the LADA's Office: admitted to strangling Mrs. Silverman and drowning the Arab banker in the Bahamas. He's coming tomorrow (Tues.) for rebuttal.
Sante was a sight to behold. Who ever thought that she's be dull? I caught myself wandering after 8 hours of testimony re writing the military in Qata in order to volunteet her services in finding Bin LAden.
Good for you for going to the trial. I envied you New Yorker's possibilities. I am the only public person in court. Everybody else is media which is why everybody missed Sante's mouthing the words "Pray for me" as she was being wheeled out. The media was busy comparing quotes!

[AtomicDog]

Do you think Kenny will ever "tell" where he dumped the body of Irene Silverman???

So much for the crime spree of "Mommy and Clyde!"

[yadler]

Family motto was "No body, no crime," and his testimony that they "always" used dumpsters. He's already said that he dumped her body in a New Jersey construction site. Like Simpson's knife, it and Irene went to a garbage dump. Fishkill?
He's on the stand again this morning and I gotta hear him. The jury has now heard about the other murder conviction and admission of the Nassau banker's murder. He will rebutt Sante's claims that his admissions are the result of "torture" by the police and the prosecutor!

[lisafremont]

I too was "in court" on numerous occasions for the Sante and Kenny Kimes trial when it was in Manhattan. Really STRANGE case! Even though I believe they are guilty - I don't believe that a resonable amount of circumstancial evidence was provided to give them the sentence they received. I knew the defense attorneys and met the prosecutors. Hey - Sante even called me at home once.... that was really strange.... oh well :eek:

AtomicDog, Just caught up with this old post.

What do you mean there wasn't a reasonable amount of CE for the sentence??

In hindsight, we have Kenny's confession on the stand in Mama's case, so we know that they did it and now we know how.

Are you quibbling with the sentence or the verdict??

I totally disagree, btw---- When they were arrested, Sante had Irene's passport on her!! Then there was their attempts to fool a notary public into notarizing their forged deed. And then there's that fake document. AND there are all the notebooks with Sante's compulsive listmaking, a real How To Kill. And there's Kenny's alias in renting the room at Irene's...PUT IT ALL TOGETHER AND IT SPELLS LWOP!!!

[yadler]

And let's not forget that Sante had Irene's Silverman's personal key ring. I believe it was marked with red nail polish. What was Sante's reasoning? She lied when she said that her old friend let her (Sante) walk around with her things all the time. Like, yea, I let total strangers walk around with my house keys, passport, social security number, $10,000 in new currency (presumably from IS's safe) and quite claim to my 8 million dollar home. I am not even mentioning her notebooks and To Do lists!!!!!!!!!!!
I would do almost anything to get the trial's transcripts in any way shape or form. Who needs true-life thrillers?
And the sentence, as far as I remember, was the compilation of all the steps up to and including the murder. Kidnapping, inter-state transportation, premeditation, theft, forgery etc. 128 and 120 year sentences are just about right on target.

[yadler]

I know that this doesn't belong on this board, but I spent the day at the Kimes trial today. Will return Monday in expectation that Mama will testify. You want to talk about rivetting. Kenny Kimes' testimony (part II) gives new meaning to the word "intense."

Sante Kimes was finally sentenced today, March 21, 2005. Not a pretty sight, folks. My expectancy was high after so many delays and postponements, but I can tell you, now that it's over, not a pretty sight. But Sante is now history although she promised that she has just begun to fight for her and her son's exoneration.
Judge Kennedy-Powell was truly extraordinary, though: she pronounced that Sante was the most evil individual she had ever encountered in her 16 years on the bench. The attorney did an admirable job but, after all of his pleadings had been denied and SAnte was sentenced, his face showed real pain.
Then came Kenney's turn: Keddey-Powell said that he is the case's true tragedy. By that she meant that but for his mother and her orders to kill 3 human beings, he would not be in his position (LWOP). She turned Sante's words on their head when she said that Sante had brutalized and dominated this poor 29 year old (looks 109). She destroyed his entire life.
Jeanne King is working on a made-for-TV movie, based on her book and this trial.

[nanandjim]

Sante Kimes was finally sentenced today, March 21, 2005...Then came Kenney's turn... She turned Sante's words on their head when she said that Sante had brutalized and dominated this poor 29 year old (looks 109). She destroyed his entire life...
It is so very sad that this evil woman destroyed her son's life. Somehow, the older son got away from all of this. Does anyone know his story and where he is today?

Kenny used to be an attractive young man. You say that he now looks really old?

I think Kenny was brainwashed from an early age. I just feel bad that his entire life was a waste.

[yadler]

Yes. That's what the judge said as well:"The real tragedy of this case." He is now 29, looks as though he was 106, and is, in fact, a stone-cold killer. His mamma, literally, made him do it. And he says that he still loves her. But Kennedy-Powell, a baseball fanatic if I ever saw one, used the metaphor that he finally came up to bat and she said that she doesn't know where he had the strength from to do that. Kenny (prosecutors/police still call him that) is now free in prison.
Because he fully complied with the DA's plea, his request to stay in California is being accepted, thereby avoiding the sentence of solitary confinement of 3-4 (?) years he was given for the CRT stunt. Sante will be returning to New York!!!!!!!!!!! But not by plane. She shouldn't be forced to fly "at my age." So, car it will be. Like the old days: being chauffered by others.
So, again, Kennedy-Powell said from the bench that Sante is the most evil human being she has ever encountered in her 16 years on the bench.

[FacTink]

Hello Yad...

Let's catch up on this a bit...

You wrote:
"Sante Kimes was finally sentenced today, March 21, 2005. Not a pretty sight, folks. My expectancy was high after so many delays and postponements, but I can tell you, now that it's over, not a pretty sight."

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "not a pretty sight?" What did the whole thing make you feel and think AND what is it that you saw to have you say, "Not a pretty sight?" I don't think that being in the room with Kimes would be anything but a "slimed" kinda feeling...but can you elaborate here? I would like to read your guts on this.

So...let me see if I have this straight, the son who Kimes twisted is still in prison in CA? His name is, or he is known as "Kenny?" Do you know which prison? Can you refresh me on his sentence? He is 29 at present?

The judge was correct, only a person filled with evil could raise up a child and control them in this way for her wicked purposes. Somehow however, I have to think that there was a voice that called that guy away from what his mom was and was doing, yet he chose not to listen to it.

FT

[yadler]

"Not a pretty sight:" Have you ever been at a sentencing hearing? It's very dramatic, not like watching television. You realize that this convicted felon will have to suffer a life different from yours or mine. Apart from who she is and what she has been convicted of, it's still a gut wrenching sight. For me, at anyrate. There was a lot of LA detective/prosecution glad-handing. It's finally over. But I found the scene sad. Ultimately, the felon's life-long habit of grifting, using, abusing and then murdering has left her with nothing. Worse than nothing.
Her son, Kenneth Kimes, who all and sundry call Kenney, has been given a sentence of (I believe) 127 years for the murder of Irene Silverman in New York City. He was charged with a capital offense here in Los Angeles, together with his mother (120 years for same murder). He plea bargained to get the death penalty removed for them both, plus the request to do his "time" in California in exchange for revealing all about the Kazdin murder. He threw in the Bahamian banker confession to boot. So, while Sante is going back to New York (Bedford Hills?), he has been granted his wish of staying in California, thus avoiding the years of solitary he was penalized with for the Maria Zone hostage-taking. He'll probably be in San Quentin.
Even Judge Kennedy-Powell, while sentencing Kenney, said that he is the real tragedy of this entire trial: a child who his mother isolated from public school and friends, to raise in the privacy of her dementia. Mamma told him to kill and kill he did. She made him into a stone-cold killer who, nevertheless (as said by the judge) came up to plate to testify against Mamma. "I don't know where he got his strength from."
So, "not a pretty sight" may now be seen in context. It was a tragedy (all around) of major proportions.

[FacTink]

Hi Yad,

You asked: "Have you ever been at a sentencing hearing?"

No...I haven't. Based on what you have expressed, perhaps I'm very glad that I haven't. Now I understand what you meant by "not a pretty sight."

You wrote:
"You realize that this convicted felon will have to suffer a life different from yours or mine. Apart from who she is and what she has been convicted of, it's still a gut wrenching sight."

I'm having a discussion with myself about the above statement. I can't quite get my head around any feeling of gut wrenching for the sake of a convicted felon who "will have to suffer a life different from yours or mine." I find it very difficult (maybe impossible) to empathize/sympathize with felons, particularly those such as Kimes. Please don't misunderstand, I would not diminish your heart of compassion, I just haven't found mine where yours appears to be...or maybe I just don't get this yet.

You obviously feel pain that Kimes will suffer from a life different from yours or mine. This appears to be a reflection that you feel that our lives are satisfying (I agree that they definitely are.) Kimes would laugh at any of us that feel sorry for her that she can't have a life such as ours. She DID laugh but, took it far further than that. Kimes loathed, and treated with derision, all of that which you and I "deeply" respect and find to be of value. Kimes DID NOT WANT a life such as yours or mine. I personally believe that this was a conscious decision of Kimes, well thought out... She, like many, came to a "Y" in the road, then laughed at those of us that chose the branch that indicated "includes respect of others." She PURPOSELY chose the branch that we did not, and purposely chose not to backtrack and re-select despite that which I believe she heard along the way from a "greater than she."

Our lives are pathetic to Kimes, of no value. A life such as ours includes the simple core value of respecting the boundaries of others. Respecting the boundaries of others must include a certain amount of "servitude" to others and, OH, this is NOT what Kimes has chosen to be about. Perhaps that is the bottom line with such as Kimes...I will be no man's (woman's) servant. Kimes "chose" to be the God of her universe - all others would be her servants. Kimes chose to write the laws of that which is right per her Godhood, what serves "me" is that which I will live, teach and force others to live. For the life of me, as a mother of two infants, I cannot understand any mother birthing a child, looking upon their fragile estate, and then taking advantage of this to raise servants to "me alone" (mother of the children.)

I can only guess that my major feeling of gut wrenching during the sentencing of Kimes would be that her heart would not be stopped, her breathing would not be stilled, within 2 hours of sentencing. There has been a tragedy, but the greatest tragedy is that the tragedy has not been ended. Kenney remains to be targeted by the wicked one, and he will be. Kimes will victimize as long as she breathes. The true tragedy is that her breath has not yet been taken away.

Yad, check your PMs.

FT

[yadler]

Very unfortunately, Judge Kennedy-Powel's post-conviction statement did not get any press: she told him that he was now "free" to live his life, without any longer being his mother's killing machine.
In the post-conviction of Sante, the same judge said that just because she is behind bars, it will not stop her manipulative attempts: to her son (dis-allowed correspndence), fellow prisoners, guards and those already released. There are a plethora of people doing her bidding as we sit in our homes, enjoying the net. She will not stop, simply because she can't.
You know what got me interested in her/their case? Read Jeane King's wonderful/best book on how they were captured at NY's Hilton (4 LE jurisdictions) and how easily Sante was able to steal Irene Silverman's identity (SS#, passport, Trust deed etc). That can happen to any of us. It happened to Mrs.Silverman, plus being killed by Sonny-Boy at Mamma's direction. The book is called "Endgame."
The new, made-for-tv movie will focus on Sante's destruction of her son. Since the script-writer is working hand in glove with the aforementioned writer, it aught to be a not-to-be-missed movie.
And yes. I cancheer a scumbag's conviction while it is on TV, if you feel the tension in court, it is gut-wrenching. For me, at any rate.

[concernedperson]

I know a mother just like that. Don't believe for a second that she is the only one that would control and beseech her children to do her bidding. But, thank goodness this one is behind bars forever.

[yadler]

There some incestuous allegations between the two. Things like that do not happen every day. The woman is a total enigma.

[concernedperson]

There some incestuous allegations between the two. Things like that do not happen every day. The woman is a total enigma.

Do you mean actual incest vs. emotional incest? Yuck....if that is correct! Sante Kimes sounds like she is truly truly an evil woman.