CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #5 FOUND DECEASED

[nursebeeme]

In times of greatest adversity
do not despair
for crystal rain
falls from black clouds
~nzumi

Rest in peace Annie Le

Continue here:

[babycat]

Thanks so much, Nurse:)

:blowkiss:

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, NeeBee~

Welcome to WS, GTK and TKSK~ Nice to have you both on board. :)

I may have missed some other newbies today...if so I am sorry! Welcome!!

[TravelingBug]

Well this contradicts the well enumerated points laid out by that other individual on the NHR site, but this is what the new NH Independent (http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/serious_suspect.php)article said that I found most interesting (which then, yes, means all that looking at articles may be moot)

"Another law enforcement source familiar with the probe identified the suspect as a lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale. That technician’s campus phone number was disconnected Monday afternoon and he couldn’t be reached for comment. The technician allegedly had an unrequited love interest in Annie Le, according to that source. That suggestion couldn’t be independently verified Monday afternoon."

ETA: It contradicts as far as none of those names on the now removed bennett list seem to also be a lab tech working with animal testing - unless that's a loosely referenced title to obscure the identity...which I suppose is possible.

[Jersey*Girl]

Supplied by belimom at the end of the last thread:

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/serious_suspect.php
Here's a snippet:

QUOTE
However, a source familiar with the investigation said the probe has zeroed in on a single “serious” suspect.

Another law enforcement source familiar with the probe identified the suspect as a lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale. That technician’s campus phone number was disconnected Monday afternoon and he couldn’t be reached for comment. The technician allegedly had an unrequited love interest in Annie Le, according to that source. That suggestion couldn’t be independently verified Monday afternoon.

The New Haven Register’s Bill Kaempffer reported that the suspect failed a polygraph test and refused to answer cops’ questions, with a lawyer present.
UNQUOTE

[SnowAngels]

“RUMOR, n. A favorite weapon of the assassins of character." Ambrose Bierce

[Jersey*Girl]

TravelingBug - We posted at the same time! :blowkiss:

[Labrat]

salverenga, thank you! It's not the exact list but what you just supplied answered a question I had about 10 minutes ago! YALE OFFERS RODENT SERVICES! Please refer to the below link...I certainly don't want to go off on a tangent but it could be linked somewhat...maybe not, but maybe...

http://info.med.yale.edu/yarc/vcs/rodent.htm

Quote
The Rodent Service provides comprehensive breeding and colony management services to assist investigators with rodent-based research. The benefits are as follows:
Reduces time and costs for colony management
Provides complete colony records including documentation of lineage
Ensures regulatory compliance
The following services are available at an hourly rate of $77. Total breeding colony management packages or individual services are provided. Individual consultation is provided at no charge.

Weekly (minimum) monitoring of breeding pairs
Twice weekly (minimum) monitoring of harem breeding pairs
Daily monitoring of pregnant females and females with litters
Separation of pregnant females (harem pens)
Weaning
Setup and retirement of breeders
Timed matings
Identification of individual animals
Record keeping and monthly reports
Biopsy for DNA analysis
Euthanasia
The Rodent Service can also provide technical assistance with chronic drug administration, sample collection, minor surgical procedures and other experimental procedures in rodents.
Unquote

Now, I wonder if Annie or her research team used these services. I would think the service tech would be housed in the lab itself...and I know from Annie's med docs that she used mice...

They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.

[babycat]

“RUMOR, n. A favorite weapon of the assassins of character." Ambrose Bierce

Duly noted...and I think I'm going to get off that track;)

PS. Love my copy of Devil's Dictionary...

so clever :)

[passionflower]

:Welcome-12-june: to all newbies! New thread, hope you find us!


KDKA TV just showed pictures of a huge vigil for Annie tonight at YALE!

[SeriouslySearching]

I appreciate why they are being careful in naming the person they are interested in until they have the DNA testing back, but it would be nice if LE would take him into custody ahead of time so we could pull the arrest records for tomorrow. ;)

Thanks to Labrat for explaining about how those things work within such a setting as I had no idea. I would certainly have to pay for someone to take care of my mice for experiments since I would flip out every time I saw one. :)

[KaylynnCouture]

Thanks for the new thread, Nurse. And, welcome to all the newbies! Glad to have you posting with us :)

[nursebeeme]

thank you Labrat for that VERY INFORMATIVE POST! I am so very glad it is on page one of the new thread for easy "bumping"!

[passionflower]

I appreciate why they are being careful in naming the person they are interested in until they have the DNA testing back, but it would be nice if LE would take him into custody ahead of time so we could pull the arrest records for tomorrow. ;)

Can't a person be held 24 hours for questioing?
Could DNA be back from clothes ( a few days ago?) atleast by then???

[nursebeeme]

I appreciate why they are being careful in naming the person they are interested in until they have the DNA testing back, but it would be nice if LE would take him into custody ahead of time so we could pull the arrest records for tomorrow. ;)
this post is a great example of why I love SeriouslySearching!!!!

[KaylynnCouture]

Candlelight Vigil Tonight at Yale
A candlelight vigil was held for murdered student Annie Le on Yale's Campus, Monday evening.

"That this horrible tragedy happened at all is incomprehensible. But that it happened to her is infinitely more so," said Le's roommate at the vigil.

Flames flickered in the night; the yellow glow served as a reminder of how fragile life can be. More than 1,000 people stood in silence, alone with their thoughts and memories and tears.

Yale student, 24-year-old Le was missing for five days; she vanished from her lab building in broad daylight. Sunday, she was found murdered inside the same building. Annie's roommate asked people to pray.

"Romans 8:28: All things work together for good. It's a comfort that I think she would want us to have; this isn't just senseless, God is in control and something good will come out of this," said Le's roommate.

Many holding the candles didn't know the pharmacological student; they had never met her. Strangers, drawn to the darkness, brought light to honor a life ended short.

"It's been a great sense of family and when we lose someone like her, we feel it and the community feels it and that is why we are here today," said Yale Student Chris Dooley.

Each candle is only a small light against the darkness. But with many candles, there's a bright glow, a memory carried forward into the night and a reminder of how fragile life can be.

Snipped from http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/news_wtnh_new_haven_candlelight_vigil_200909141250

I'm amazed at how many people turned out- that is wonderful.

:rose: Rest in Peace Annie. A beautiful life taken WAY too soon. Fly with the Angels.

[TravelingBug]

Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler like Labrat was talking about (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.

[nursebeeme]

Can't a person be held 24 hours for questioing?
Could DNA be back from clothes ( a few days ago?) atleast by then???
one of the article said the clothing results could be back "monday" (not sure if they meant today or next monday)

One poster on the last thread postulated that this "suspect" could be in the box (meaning not being held but sitting in a little room sweating his a$$ off to the beat of LE questions). Not "officially held" mind you... but under a big ole' blue thumb.

[Jersey*Girl]

They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.

Thank you very very much for this, LabRat! Ok, can you help me out with this then? In the article above, it informs it's a Lab Tech that works with Animal Testing at Yale...so they would be in contact with Annie at the Amistad building, right? If they work with Animal Testing, wouldn't they be "housed" there? That confuses me. I probably have tunnel vision...I already know. Maybe I should just get to bed!

[nursebeeme]

Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.
bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bump

[babycat]

Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.


I see what you're saying here....

and honestly, with all of the jumbled reporting about labs, techs, etc and the fact that the reporters don't seem to understand the intricacies of it all, I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt. I don't know if the reporters would correctly distinguish between an animal lab tech and a researcher working with animals, since most of the info is being leaked anyway...or so it seems:)

[eyes4crime]

They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.

Please Labrat - don't ever leave us!!! Your contributions and expertise are so appreciated. If we waited for the media to get their terminology right, we would all be sound asleep. Lab tech., research tech., animal tech., prof tech., post grad tech. - their inaccuracies are endless. Now I'm wondering if LE have their terms right????? Thanks so much.

[nursebeeme]

They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.
bumpity bump bump bump bump bump (thanks again Rat)

[Jersey*Girl]

I appreciate why they are being careful in naming the person they are interested in until they have the DNA testing back, but it would be nice if LE would take him into custody ahead of time so we could pull the arrest records for tomorrow. ;)

Thanks to Labrat for explaining about how those things work within such a setting as I had no idea. I would certainly have to pay for someone to take care of my mice for experiments since I would flip out every time I saw one. :)

SS, I had to lol at this! It reminded me of Friday telling her story about when she saw/heard that rattler in the search for Caylee!

[SnowAngels]

bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bump

I think what TravelingBug is saying is that this same description can be applied to anyone who handles animals/equipment in a lab- this could be applied from the animal tech (low position) to the chair of the department (highest position). All these positions would technically have this particularly same knowledge and have the ability to perform these particular duties. Therfore, neither LE nor the 'message' they would be sending out to the public through the media would be "lying" in their description...maybe only somewhat misleading...(on purpose??) .

[tksa]

Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.

Well, the press can make mistakes, sure, and no doubt there may be people trying to mislead, but anyone in the field would never call Annie a technician. They are simply different. To some degree, it's like the difference between a foreman at an auto plant, and an engineer. They both might be walking around a factory looking at things, but they have completely different roles, and only superficially seem to be doing similar things.

[Labrat]

Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.

I think it is more that the reporters are using terminology they are unfamiliar with while trying to sound like they actually know what they are talking about. You have to actually know what you're talking about to be deceptive.:)

[TravelingBug]

bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bump

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear :-(

I know which post you mean, and that was what I was referencing in my post.

What they are trying to do (I think, as a possibility) is make it SEEM like it's the more hands on thing that Labrat and others referred to with super helpful details.

I mean, I know doctoral students that are also considered lab techs because of the lab work they do. And, in many cases, they also do testing on animals.

So, technically speaking, if you wanted to play with words and throw people off the scent, it just seems like that could be an attempt to "muddle things."

It definitely may well end up being a more 'pure' animal handler/tech type...but I'm just saying I can see how you could be "particular" with your words (like, IMO, there have been many instances of the past few days) and make it seem one way, when in reality, it's another.

If that makes sense?

[nursebeeme]

I see what you're saying here....

and honestly, with all of the jumbled reporting about labs, techs, etc and the fact that the reporters don't seem to understand the intricacies of it all, I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt. I don't know if they would correctly distinguish between an animal lab tech and a researcher working with animals, since most of the info is being leaked anyway...or so it seems:) I agree with the salt (you guys have seen me eating it all day long lol)...

what we do have here are scientists like labrat, gtk, and the rest of you brains that I missed that can give us invaluable information on how labs like this run, etc.

I again go back to SS's post.. that when we get this stinking name right (I bet we get one tomorrow) and we can get the job description.. what our websleuth scientists have to offer on these positions and the inner workings of a research lab will be so very insighful. Paying attention now to what they are saying will help educate us for what is to come.

I again extend a huge thanks to all of you for the introduction to this field.

THANK YOU!

[TravelingBug]

I think what TravelingBug is saying is that this same description can be applied to anyone who handles animals/equipment in a lab- this could be applied from the animal tech (low position) to the chair of the department (highest position). All these positions would technically have this particularly same knowledge and have the ability to perform these particular duties. Therfore, neither LE nor the 'message' they would be sending out to the public through the media would be "lying" in their description...maybe only somewhat misleading...(on purpose??) .

Thank you! That was a much clearer way of saying what I was trying to say! :blowkiss:

[SnowAngels]

Well, the press can make mistakes, sure, and no doubt there may be people trying to mislead, but anyone in the field would never call Annie a technician. They are simply different. To some degree, it's like the difference between a foreman at an auto plant, and an engineer. They both might be walking around a factory looking at things, but they have completely different roles, and only superficially seem to be doing similar things.

So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician?

[Jersey*Girl]

I think it is more that the reporters are using terminology they are unfamiliar with while trying to sound like they actually know what they are talking about. You have to actually know what you're talking about to be deceptive.:)

Ok, well with you saying this, should I continue to stick with scoping out the Rodent Services people...or not? I do wonder if the choice of words was used deliberately. But if Lab Tech is meant to be taken literally, and if the poi's phone has been shut off, then it shouldn't be as hard as going through every single one of the animal testing techs...or whatever they're exactly called. :)

One other thing that I think you may know...this has been bothering me, also: Would there be a person on duty around the clock? I always thought there was, and they worked in 8 hour shifts. I looked up the manager/supervisor and he only has 4 employees that work underneath of him...so I do wonder how it would work.

Again, LabRat, you've brought so much light to this discussion. Thanks so much for all you've added.

[SuziQ]

I see what you're saying here....

and honestly, with all of the jumbled reporting about labs, techs, etc and the fact that the reporters don't seem to understand the intricacies of it all, I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt. I don't know if the reporters would correctly distinguish between an animal lab tech and a researcher working with animals, since most of the info is being leaked anyway...or so it seems:)

Here, have some Mrs. Dash instead. All the salt we've ingested today just isn't healthy....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SHKGA7F3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[babycat]

I agree with the salt (you guys have seen me eating it all day long lol)...

what we do have here are scientists like labrat, gtk, and the rest of you brains that I missed that can give us invaluable information on how labs like this run, etc.

I again go back to SS's post.. that when we get this stinking name right (I bet we get one tomorrow) and we can get the job description.. what our websleuth scientists have to offer on these positions and the inner workings of a research lab will be so very insighful. Paying attention now to what they are saying will help educate us for what is to come.

I again extend a huge thanks to all of you for the introduction to this field.

THANK YOU!

right on, we are lucky to have them here!

[nursebeeme]

So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician? It is not the ability.. it is the job description and education level

For example, I am an open heart nurse. If my patient has an "accident" my nursing assistant does the cleaning up. I am too busy running the vent and titrating drips and keeping the patient alive.

The techs, as labrat already posted, keep the animals clean, alive, fed, and the cages sanitized so the scientists can do their work. Annie Le was a scientist.

[babycat]

Here, have some Mrs. Dash instead. All the salt we've ingested today just isn't healthy....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SHKGA7F3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg


:crazy: thank ya, ma'am;)


I just wish we had more info to go off of...it seems like every report contradicts another

oh well, such is life

[nursebeeme]

Ok, well with you saying this, should I continue to stick with scoping out the Rodent Services people...or not? I do wonder if the choice of words was used deliberately. But if Lab Tech is meant to be taken literally, and if the poi's phone has been shut off, then it shouldn't be as hard as going through every single one of the animal testing techs...or whatever they're exactly called. :)

One other thing that I think you may know...this has been bothering me, also: Would there be a person on duty around the clock? I always thought there was, and they worked in 8 hour shifts. I looked up the manager/supervisor and he only has 4 employees that work underneath of him...so I do wonder how it would work.

Again, LabRat, you've brought so much light to this discussion. Thanks so much for all you've added. additional labrat quesiton: are animal techs usually on 12 hour or 8 hour shifts?

[SeriouslySearching]

bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bumpYes. I know exactly what you mean.

Someone who would have felt that Annie was entirely out of their league possibly except she was so friendly to everyone which could have been mistaken as a flirtation to a person who was infatuated with her. Did she rebuff this person's advances in her outspoken way? She may not have much experience with this type of situation and with the upcoming wedding may have become very assertive with her dismissal of him. Of course, a person like that would have taken any negativity of advances as a personal attack. Jealousy and rage is what I am sticking with as a motive on this one.

[nursebeeme]

question: does anyone know what year Annie was in at Yale? Was this her first year?

[tksa]

So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician?

As to whether or not they have the abilities, it depends on what kind. Based on Labrat's description of an animal tech, then it sounds like a Ph.D. student would not.

For example, let's say that Annie experimented on mice. She may know a lot about diabetes, but she may have had no idea how to take care of mice.

But regardless of the abilities, the roles are different. If a professor did all his own lab work, she would never have time to do all the other things that a professor needs to do. For some things, I would imagine that a tech can do them better and faster than a professor, just due to familiarity and practice.

[nursebeeme]

Yes. I know exactly what you mean.

Someone who would have felt that Annie was entirely out of their league possibly except she was so friendly to everyone which could have been mistaken as a flirtation to a person who was infatuated with her. Did she rebuff this person's advances in her outspoken way? She may not have much experience with this type of situation and with the upcoming wedding may have become very assertive with her dismissal of him. Of course, a person like that would have taken any negativity of advances as a personal attack. Jealousy and rage is what I am sticking with as a motive on this one.
perhaps someone who missed the boat on the same chances at a scientific education.. who perphaps thought they knew just as much as the scientists and held some sort of resentment???

[Labrat]

Thank you very very much for this, LabRat! Ok, can you help me out with this then? In the article above, it informs it's a Lab Tech that works with Animal Testing at Yale...so they would be in contact with Annie at the Amistad building, right? If they work with Animal Testing, wouldn't they be "housed" there? That confuses me. I probably have tunnel vision...I already know. Maybe I should just get to bed!

Yes, they would. An animal tech would be working in the same facility every day. We also have vet techs (Yale probably does also) who travel to the different facilities to check on/ treat sick animals and to do the testing for the sentinel program. These techs would not be as likely a candidate for suspect in my view because they spend more limited time in each facility- I think they would be less likely to fixate on a student, have less familiarity with the specific facility, etc. They do do animal "testing" though.

It's hard to know if that "Tech that works with Animal Testing" is accurate or more media fumbling.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it is more that the reporters are using terminology they are unfamiliar with while trying to sound like they actually know what they are talking about. You have to actually know what you're talking about to be deceptive.:)You do make an excellent point.

[Labrat]

additional labrat quesiton: are animal techs usually on 12 hour or 8 hour shifts?

Ours work 8-4 Mon-Fri, with a reduced staff 8-12 Sat and Sun. There is a Veterinarian on call at all times.

[SeriouslySearching]

Please Labrat - don't ever leave us!!! Your contributions and expertise are so appreciated. If we waited for the media to get their terminology right, we would all be sound asleep. Lab tech., research tech., animal tech., prof tech., post grad tech. - their inaccuracies are endless. Now I'm wondering if LE have their terms right????? Thanks so much.LOL LE can't figure out if they have a body or not. They can't even narrow down the term "suspect"! Why should we expect them to interpret Yale speak for intelligent life forms performing certain duties? :crazy:

[wanttohelp]

not sure if this is posted yet
http://info.med.yale.edu/yarc/keyservices.htm

[nursebeeme]

question: does anyone know what year Annie was in at Yale? Was this her first year?
bumping this quesiton...

asking in reference to how long someone would have had to fixate on her

[Jersey*Girl]

question: does anyone know what year Annie was in at Yale? Was this her first year?

I've read 3rd year...but then all of a sudden today somebody said something about it being her 1st year. According to some docs in pubmed, it seems it could date back 3 years under Bennett. I'm sticking with 3 years.

[fhc]

Nurse B, all i have noticed is her name like this; Annie Med '13 iirc

[nursebeeme]

I've read 3rd year...but then all of a sudden today somebody said something about it being her 1st year. According to some docs in pubmed, it seems it could date back 3 years under Bennett. I'm sticking with 3 years.

thank you...

I am just trying to calculate (and need labrats help again) but she got her undergrad (four years) and is now in an MD/phd program with a graduation date of 2013... four years from now...

I think I could see her being in year two at the most at yale...

I just am not sure how many years that combined degree program would be... let me go search a bit...
thank you JG!

[fhc]

and Annie had told people it would require 12 years of higher education

[Labrat]

So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician?

Of course they would have the ability, but it would be a tremendous waste of time, skill, and money. For instance, I have 2 animal techs and a lab tech. I could do their jobs, but why would I? It would take me the whole day to change my mouse cages- maybe longer, since I am old and tired and have roughly 450 cages. While I was doing this, who would be doing my work? There are multiple people who could do the cage changing or my tech's work, but there is no one else who could do mine.
Because of my experience and skill level, I also demand a high salary, so it is much better for the university if I do the work they hired me for.

[nursebeeme]

Disadvantages -Time. The MD/PhD program typically takes 8 to 10 years to complete. By the time you're done with you're degrees, the people you started med school with are finishing their residency. Some may even be on the faculty of the med school.



Jersey.. I think you are right! This program is 8-10 years long! If she was a third year at Yale.. .that would put 2013 as her 7th or 8th year depending on summers..

Here is the link to info on this program (and it specifically talks about the NIH route that she was going)
http://www.studentdoc.com/mdphd.html

[Jersey*Girl]

Ours work 8-4 Mon-Fri, with a reduced staff 8-12 Sat and Sun. There is a Veterinarian on call at all times.

LabRat, I found something last night, which is why I am so stuck on this Rodent Services aspect - I found they have shifts of 8 hours and or provide around the clock care if need be. I also found that the supervisor has 4 people that work underneath of him. I will probably take half the day tomorrow trying to find everything now, but I specifically remember that.

One more thing, I thought Amistad was not Bennetts lab. I thought Annie went there to work on her experiments, be it her very own or part of the research teams experiments. So, I wouldn't be referencing a Lab Tech at Bennetts lab...I was referencing a lab tech at the Amistad building. Is it easier to just say the location instead of calling it lab? It seems like "lab" is used so loosely.

And in closing, do you think it could be careful wording by saying "Lab Tech That Works With Animal Testing"? I thought the ground floor of Amistad is where the rodents and animals are housed...at least some of them. I was thinking mice would be kept seperate and contained differently than the primates. I have such an analytical mind and this is flipping killing me. I do think they are using the term lab tech loosely. I'm still searching...not giving up...looking for all lab techs in that area that I can find. I'm trying to find out which lab is directly above the lab Annie was using. Could this person shimmy down (carefully) through the wall? An animal tech person would surely know the ins and outs of that place, just like a lab tech would, considering the length of time and the quiet that surrounds them (if they are housed there like I thought). One would tend to wander and investigae...at least I'd think. Again, thank you for everything.

[static]

Does anyone know anything about this?

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/14/gunman-released/

[babycat]

I think it is more that the reporters are using terminology they are unfamiliar with while trying to sound like they actually know what they are talking about. You have to actually know what you're talking about to be deceptive.:)


Thank you...that is exactly what i was trying to say in this post

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Identified! CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #5 FOUND DECEASED

but you said it so much better!

:blushing:

[puffster]

yes happened right around when annie disappered. some old guy -- former employee - complaining he wasn't gettin his pension checks or something.

[2sls]

I've been following this case- new to these forums. Like everyone else I've been curious about the identity of the suspect.

I do want to point out that the person mentioned in the other threads(initial Z) is actually a female so she really can't be the suspect. I know this because I read through the dissertations of some of the former lab members and they specifically acknowledged her with the female pronoun.

Therefore I think the whole chain of logic regarding person XXX on page 25 of the 3rd or 4th thread originally posted in the comment section of another newspaper site is spurious.

There is however another person with the exact same initials also listed in the Yale directory, however there are no other details regarding this person.

[scandi]

one of the article said the clothing results could be back "monday" (not sure if they meant today or next monday)

One poster on the last thread postulated that this "suspect" could be in the box (meaning not being held but sitting in a little room sweating his a$$ off to the beat of LE questions). Not "officially held" mind you... but under a big ole' blue thumb.

YaYa, and I think a Kojak and Monk combo would do nicely with the good guy/bad guy duo. LOL


PS: I just learned that mice breed in harems :blushing: xox

[Labrat]

Ok, well with you saying this, should I continue to stick with scoping out the Rodent Services people...or not? I do wonder if the choice of words was used deliberately. But if Lab Tech is meant to be taken literally, and if the poi's phone has been shut off, then it shouldn't be as hard as going through every single one of the animal testing techs...or whatever they're exactly called. :)

One other thing that I think you may know...this has been bothering me, also: Would there be a person on duty around the clock? I always thought there was, and they worked in 8 hour shifts. I looked up the manager/supervisor and he only has 4 employees that work underneath of him...so I do wonder how it would work.

Again, LabRat, you've brought so much light to this discussion. Thanks so much for all you've added.

Since I don't know the actual position of the suspect, it's hard to say. Our animal techs are not listed by name on our website. It lists the veterinarians, facility supervisors, managers only. Those lists on the websites are generally for researchers and students who need help with something. There would be no reason for them to call any of the animal techs. The animal techs take care of the animals, period. You might speak to the tech in your room if you were both there at the same time, but if you actually needed something you would speak to the supervisor. It is very possible the person's name is not on that list at all.

We have a person on duty overnight, but only one for all the facilities. If someone has a problem they call an emergency number and that person will go and help. Animal technicians and building supervisors work 8-4, Some of the managers work until 6 or so, I work til 7-8 very often, and the veterinarians often work quite late. That is small animal- large animal has some differences but I really am not familiar with that.

It just occurred to me- I hope nothing ever happens where I am. Websleuthers will have my name up in lights here before the day is out- LOL.

[amyb80]

I cannot get the Yale directory to come up anymore.

http://pharmserv.med.yale.edu/web/staff_directory.php

[SeriouslySearching]

Does anyone know anything about this?

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/14/gunman-released/No. I wonder what was in the suspicious package which alerted the person who called it in to the police?

I don't believe it has anything to do with Annie, but it does show someone was taking appropriate precautions. The problem was addressed quickly and could have saved lives.

A nut case off the street is not likely to be the suspect, but a disgruntled former employee could be a possibility. It should have been the second list LE asked for when this case hit high gear into a homicide.

[nursebeeme]

I've been following this case- new to these forums. Like everyone else I've been curious about the identity of the suspect.

I do want to point out that the person mentioned in the other threads(initial Z) is actually a female so she really can't be the suspect. I know this because I read through the dissertations of some of the former lab members and they specifically acknowledged her with the female pronoun.

Therefore I think the whole chain of logic regarding person XXX on page 25 of the 3rd or 4th thread originally posted in the comment section of another newspaper site is spurious.

There is however another person with the exact same initials also listed in the Yale directory, however there are no other details regarding this person.

bold is mine

a freakin men!

and welcome to websleuths!!

[nursebeeme]

I cannot get the Yale directory to come up anymore.

http://pharmserv.med.yale.edu/web/staff_directory.php google it and try selecting cache

[nursebeeme]

YaYa, and I think a Kojak and Monk combo would do nicely with the good guy/bad guy duo. LOL


PS: I just learned that mice breed in harems :blushing: xox
Scandi! I :blowkiss: you!

[2sls]

I cannot get the Yale directory to come up anymore.

http://pharmserv.med.yale.edu/web/staff_directory.php

http://scripts.its.yale.edu/cgi-bin/ph

[Jersey*Girl]

Since I don't know the actual position of the suspect, it's hard to say. Our animal techs are not listed by name on our website. It lists the veterinarians, facility supervisors, managers only. Those lists on the websites are generally for researchers and students who need help with something. There would be no reason for them to call any of the animal techs. The animal techs take care of the animals, period. You might speak to the tech in your room if you were both there at the same time, but if you actually needed something you would speak to the supervisor. It is very possible the person's name is not on that list at all.

We have a person on duty overnight, but only one for all the facilities. If someone has a problem they call an emergency number and that person will go and help. Animal technicians and building supervisors work 8-4, Some of the managers work until 6 or so, I work til 7-8 very often, and the veterinarians often work quite late. That is small animal- large animal has some differences but I really am not familiar with that.

It just occurred to me- I hope nothing ever happens where I am. Websleuthers will have my name up in lights here before the day is out- LOL.

Thanks. Your response backs up what I just found...that the supervisor has a veterinary building at a different address, on campus maybe? but def a different location than Amistad. I found he has 4 employees underneath him. In what I found last night, though, it's what made me think they had somebody on 8 hour shifts and rotated around the clock. I need to just let this go. I'm tired and need sleep. Hope everyone has a nice night and LabRat thanks so much for your massive input!

[Labrat]

LabRat, I found something last night, which is why I am so stuck on this Rodent Services aspect - I found they have shifts of 8 hours and or provide around the clock care if need be. I also found that the supervisor has 4 people that work underneath of him. I will probably take half the day tomorrow trying to find everything now, but I specifically remember that.

One more thing, I thought Amistad was not Bennetts lab. I thought Annie went there to work on her experiments, be it her very own or part of the research teams experiments. So, I wouldn't be referencing a Lab Tech at Bennetts lab...I was referencing a lab tech at the Amistad building. Is it easier to just say the location instead of calling it lab? It seems like "lab" is used so loosely.

And in closing, do you think it could be careful wording by saying "Lab Tech That Works With Animal Testing"? I thought the ground floor of Amistad is where the rodents and animals are housed...at least some of them. I was thinking mice would be kept seperate and contained differently than the primates. I have such an analytical mind and this is flipping killing me. I do think they are using the term lab tech loosely. I'm still searching...not giving up...looking for all lab techs in that area that I can find. I'm trying to find out which lab is directly above the lab Annie was using. Could this person shimmy down (carefully) through the wall? An animal tech person would surely know the ins and outs of that place, just like a lab tech would, considering the length of time and the quiet that surrounds them (if they are housed there like I thought). One would tend to wander and investigae...at least I'd think. Again, thank you for everything.

Let me see if I can get through all your questions.

I will go look at their website again. The supervisor would very likely have more than 4 people under him. Not everyone is listed on our website- only key people- the animal/vet techs not at all. Our small animal techs work one 8 hour shift. Large animal may be different- large animals need more care and attention after surgery for example than rodents do. I am really not so familiar with that as that is not my area.

It is my belief that Annie went to Amistad to work with her mice (I found a video with a reporter confirming that) I also found that Amistad does indeed house animals. Lab is being used very loosely- Bennett's lab is not in Amistad. Amistad was not Annie's lab. The reporters are calling everything a lab.

Yes, mice and primates would be housed seperately. I don't think there would be a need to climb down inside a wall. The animal techs would be able to get into every room in the facility- they need to to be able to do their jobs.

[amyb80]

google it and try selecting cache

Thank you very much for that assistance Nursebeeme.:)
I tried to catch up on all the posts in the threads and you all are quite adept with deduction. Makes me feel a bit like a flunkie lol.:banghead:

On another note-
I'm so very sorry Annie that someone felt this was their solution to not being able to have what they wanted.:mad:

[scandi]

Scandi! I :blowkiss: you!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dirtbox/pics/muttley.gif Whoever thought these little guys would figure out how to get the hostess with the mostest. :Banane22:

[Jersey*Girl]

Let me see if I can get through all your questions.

I will go look at their website again. The supervisor would very likely have more than 4 people under him. Not everyone is listed on our website- only key people- the animal/vet techs not at all. Our small animal techs work one 8 hour shift. Large animal may be different- large animals need more care and attention after surgery for example than rodents do. I am really not so familiar with that as that is not my area.

It is my belief that Annie went to Amistad to work with her mice (I found a video with a reporter confirming that) I also found that Amistad does indeed house animals. Lab is being used very loosely- Bennett's lab is not in Amistad. Amistad was not Annie's lab. The reporters are calling everything a lab.

Yes, mice and primates would be housed seperately. I don't think there would be a need to climb down inside a wall. The animal techs would be able to get into every room in the facility- they need to to be able to do their jobs.

I checked to see if you responded, and you did, so I logged back on so that I may thank you...again! Bold is mine above...I think one of the reasons Amistad has been referenced as Annie's lab is b/c it's been stated that's where she did her experiments. I thought her lab was at Sterling, but the news reports (including police) have said lab in reference to Amistad. This could be where some confusion sets in. Again, thank you. I'm finally going to sleep...and hopefully I won't dream about any of this!

Sweet dreams everyone. 'Nite.

[TravelingBug]

I think this article (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6618759.html) does the best job of "humanizing" Annie.

It's well worth the read, IMO

"When those who knew her talk about Annie Le, they do so in superlatives — best student they ever had, most dedicated volunteer, smartest teenager they've ever known.

<snip>

...voted her the female student "Most Likely to be the Next Einstein," according to the class yearbook from 2003, the year she graduated.

<snip>

Teachers who recall her as a top student were so distraught they did not want to talk, said DeVille, who was not at the school during Le's time there but spoke with those who knew her.

<snip>

He said she was class valedictorian, a member of the National Honor Society and knew early on that she wanted a career in medicine.

<snip>

In a yearbook posting, Le said her goal was to become a laboratory pathologist, a career she said would require about 12 years of higher education. She was so dedicated that she spent an hour or two every night applying for scholarships, DeVille said, eventually being awarded more than $160,000.

<snip>

Outside school, Le volunteered at a hospital in a program designed for high school students who want to enter the medical profession. She was named volunteer of the year during her senior year.

She worked alongside doctors at Marshall Medical Center in Placerville to further her interest in pathology, the study of disease, and shared her experiences in her high school science classes.

<snip>

Dr. Gary Martin, director of operations for the hospital's pathology department, said Le was the best student he's ever had in the volunteer program.

He called Le, who was 4-foot-11, "a little stick of dynamite. She was smart, she was vivacious, always cheery, a ton of energy," he recalled.

"It's difficult when you're a supervisor and the student is smarter than you," he said.

Martin said Le also stood out because she was warm and friendly with others. She was brainy but made friends easily and was humble about her accomplishments. Her high school yearbook shows numerous pictures of her with a beaming smile, surrounded by friends.

[nursebeeme]

Thank you very much for that assistance Nursebeeme.:)
I tried to catch up on all the posts in the threads and you all are quite adept with deduction. Makes me feel a bit like a flunkie lol.:banghead:

On another note-
I'm so very sorry Annie that someone felt this was their solution to not being able to have what they wanted.:mad: no one is a flunkie here amyb! silly! we are all always learning! That is what is the best about websleuths! and welcome to you too!!!! :blowkiss:

[Shutterfly]

I'm going to see if I can dig my trusty old eight ball out of the closet in a minute and see if IT will tell me the name of the person who killed Annie. In keeping with the scheme of things, I expect (if it still has liquid in it) I'll gets "ask again later." And then I'm going to have a window to replace.

[nursebeeme]

good night Jersey!

[Labrat]

Interesting-

Robert Alpern, dean of the Yale School of Medicine, where Le was studying for a Ph.D. in pharmacology, told the Yale Daily News that access to the basement where the body was found is limited to people with Yale magnetic identification cards.

“I think that it suggests it was someone who could get into that space,” he told the newspaper. “It certainly would be extremely difficult for someone from outside of Yale to get into that space. Not impossible, but extremely difficult.”

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/14/news/doc4aae5d57ae145175622155.txt

[nursebeeme]

I'm going to see if I can dig my trusty old eight ball out of the closet in a minute and see if IT will tell me the name of the person who killed Annie. In keeping with the scheme of things, I expect (if it still has liquid in it) I'll gets "ask again later." And then I'm going to have a window to replace. LOL fly! try pouring some Mrs. dash or salt on it.. .that seemed to help a lot around here today!

Hope everyone has a great night! I have to get to bed so I can save half dead people tomorrow.... I truly value and every single one of you here!

Welcome to the newbies! You won't be newbies for long! Jump in with both feet!

Sincere and utter thanks to all the scientists who have posted your brains out on here today trying to explain this culture of research labs that is like a foreign language to most of us!

[Shutterfly]

LOL fly! try pouring some Mrs. dash or salt on it.. .that seemed to help a lot around here today!

Hope everyone has a great night! I have to get to bed so I can save half dead people tomorrow.... I truly value and every single one of you here!

Welcome to the newbies! You won't be newbies for long! Jump in with both feet!

Sincere and utter thanks to all the scientists who have posted your brains out on here today trying to explain this culture of research labs that is like a foreign language to most of us!

Save one for Annie nursebee!!!

[Kimster]

Interesting-

Robert Alpern, dean of the Yale School of Medicine, where Le was studying for a Ph.D. in pharmacology, told the Yale Daily News that access to the basement where the body was found is limited to people with Yale magnetic identification cards.

“I think that it suggests it was someone who could get into that space,” he told the newspaper. “It certainly would be extremely difficult for someone from outside of Yale to get into that space. Not impossible, but extremely difficult.”

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/14/news/doc4aae5d57ae145175622155.txt

Unless the perp forced her down there and made her open the door with her own card...maybe he/she had a gun or knife?

[scandi]

http://www.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.1448060.1252978048!image/3600072961.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_600/3600072961.jpg


CANDLELIGHT VIGIL for ANNIE LE

[Labrat]

http://www.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.1448060.1252978048!image/3600072961.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_600/3600072961.jpg


CANDLELIGHT VIGIL for ANNIE LE


Thank you, Scandi. That is beautiful.

[pudd]

I think this article (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6618759.html) does the best job of "humanizing" Annie.

It's well worth the read, IMO

"When those who knew her talk about Annie Le, they do so in superlatives — best student they ever had, most dedicated volunteer, smartest teenager they've ever known.

<snip>

...voted her the female student "Most Likely to be the Next Einstein," according to the class yearbook from 2003, the year she graduated.

<snip>

Teachers who recall her as a top student were so distraught they did not want to talk, said DeVille, who was not at the school during Le's time there but spoke with those who knew her.

<snip>

He said she was class valedictorian, a member of the National Honor Society and knew early on that she wanted a career in medicine.

<snip>

In a yearbook posting, Le said her goal was to become a laboratory pathologist, a career she said would require about 12 years of higher education. She was so dedicated that she spent an hour or two every night applying for scholarships, DeVille said, eventually being awarded more than $160,000.

<snip>

Outside school, Le volunteered at a hospital in a program designed for high school students who want to enter the medical profession. She was named volunteer of the year during her senior year.

She worked alongside doctors at Marshall Medical Center in Placerville to further her interest in pathology, the study of disease, and shared her experiences in her high school science classes.

<snip>

Dr. Gary Martin, director of operations for the hospital's pathology department, said Le was the best student he's ever had in the volunteer program.

He called Le, who was 4-foot-11, "a little stick of dynamite. She was smart, she was vivacious, always cheery, a ton of energy," he recalled.

"It's difficult when you're a supervisor and the student is smarter than you," he said.

Martin said Le also stood out because she was warm and friendly with others. She was brainy but made friends easily and was humble about her accomplishments. Her high school yearbook shows numerous pictures of her with a beaming smile, surrounded by friends.

Isn't this the most heart-wrenching article? Such a lovely young woman with intellect and an equally sweet personality, and all gone to waste now because of some waste-of-space who was fixated on her. Grrr, I am so mad! I can't wait to find out who it is (and to those I PMed, I notice he hasn't posted for ages! Maybe because he's in custody?).

[SeriouslySearching]

Thank you very much for that assistance Nursebeeme.:)
I tried to catch up on all the posts in the threads and you all are quite adept with deduction. Makes me feel a bit like a flunkie lol.:banghead:

On another note-
I'm so very sorry Annie that someone felt this was their solution to not being able to have what they wanted.:mad:Welcome to WS, Amy~ We have the same problem catching up on the threads if we work or are gone for any amount of time here. LOL

Never feel like you are any less at deduction than the rest of us. Like NeeBee mentioned...we are learning every day here. There are always new challenges with each new case and we have to rely on other members who are familiar in those areas to teach us (including computer and research tricks)! ;) We were all newbies once, too.

Speaking of newbies...Welcome to WS, 2SLS~ People are joining in droves lately and I know I miss some along the way.

[Gene]

Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler like Labrat was talking about (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.


Technician= working for a salary
Graduate Student= working for a degree (masters or PH.D)
Post-doc= Has already earned a Ph.D.(doctorate)

A technician is usually (though not necessarily) a university gradute. They may have a master's degree. They are often, though not always put on publications, either as an author, or with "special thanks". But they are employees, working a fixed number of hours for a salary and benefits. They are not working on a degree. They do not decide their own projects. They work on the projects given to them by a professor or a post-doc or someone else in the lab. Sometimes the term lab technician maybe used generically to mean any salaried employee working in a lab. For example, an animal technician maybe called a lab technician, even though they may not be doing research, but just responsible for taking care of animals.

A Graduate student is always a university graduate. They are working independantly but with guidance from their advisor, the professor whose lab they are in. They earn no salary. They may or may not have a stipend, a very small monthly allowance, which may either come from the department, or their professor's grant or somewhere else. But they are working for a degree, not for a salary. (As an example, I had a stipend for most of my graduate work from my professor's grant. But one year, my professor lost his grant. My stipend stopped during that period, but I kept working.)

No one would use the term technician in relationship to Annie. It makes no sense at all. She was a graduate student.

[Angel Who Cares]

Yale student's killing 'completely senseless,' roommate says
updated 4 hours, 24 minutes ago
<snipped>
quiet rendition of "Amazing Grace" capped an emotional candlelight vigil Monday night for slain Yale University student Annie Le, whose body was found on what was to have been her wedding day.

Several hundred people turned out on the Yale campus for the vigil, crying and hugging each other. Le's roommate, Natalie Powers, said the 24-year-old graduate student in pharmacology "was as good a human being as you'd ever hope to meet."

"She was also really tenacious and had a sense of humor that was never far away, and she was tougher than you'd think by just looking at her," Powers said.

Connecticut state medical examiners announced Monday that the body found in a Yale medical research building over the weekend was that of Le, who had been missing for nearly a week. Her body was found Sunday hidden in a basement wall. Bloody clothes were found hidden above tiles in a drop ceiling elsewhere in the same building, investigators said.

No suspects are in custody, but investigators are questioning several people in the case, New Haven Police spokesman Joe Avery said.

At a meeting Monday for members of the campus community, Yale officials discussed security and provided an update on the investigation. A faculty member and a student who attended the meeting told CNN that Yale officials said police have narrowed down suspects.

Video: Body found in wall 2:13
CNN's Susan Candiotti says police think remains found inside a wall may be those of Yale student Annie Le. Added September 14, 2009
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/14/missing.yale.student/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Video: Yale student's friend 6:35
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/09/14/ng.yale.friend.cnn

Video: Student found dead 4:27
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/09/14/ng.student.dead.cnn

Video: Search for Yale student leads to corpse
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/09/14/candiotti.yale.student.cnn

Video: Annie Le time line 1:06
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/09/14/ng.annie.le.timeline.cnn

Video: Inside the Yale murder 3:29
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/09/14/nr.inside.yale.murder.cnn

Article:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/14/missing.yale.student/index.html

:angel:

[scandi]

Isn't this the most heart-wrenching article? Such a lovely young woman with intellect and an equally sweet personality, and all gone to waste now because of some waste-of-space who was fixated on her. Grrr, I am so mad! I can't wait to find out who it is (and to those I PMed, I notice he hasn't posted for ages! Maybe because he's in custody?).

http://img117.exs.cx/img117/5601/n1qshok.gif

[scandi]

I've been wondering what Annie wanted to do for a career with her PHD in Pharmacology. Become a professor, work for a large pharmaceutical co in research - don't know what else.

Then I read she wanted to be a pathologist. The only kind I know of are in forensics ;}, and wonder what other applications there are. xox

[Angel Who Cares]

Today Show video: Sources: Suspect, but no motive on Yale murder
Sept. 14: Although police haven't made an arrest in the murder of Yale student Annie Le, they are reported to be closing in on a suspect. NBC's Jeff Rossen reports.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32848445#32848445

Today Show video: Suspect in Yale student slaying 2:24
Sept. 14: Law enforcement sources tell NBC News that police have a suspect in the killing of Yale graduate student Annie Le. Msnbc's Contessa Brewer and NBC's Michelle Franzen report.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32842609#32842609

Today Show video: The strategy to hunt down Yale killer 2:29
Sept. 14: TODAY's Ann Curry talks to former FBI criminal profiler Clint Van Zandt about the investigation into the disappearance of Yale graduate student Annie Le and the strategy to find a culprit.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32837662#32837662

Today Show video: Le’s friend: ‘She was great with people’ 2:39
Sept. 14: Following the discovery of a body inside a Yale campus building believed to be that of graduate student Annie Le, TODAY's Ann Curry talks to one of Le's high school friends, Laurel Griffeath.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32837648#32837648

Today Show video: Body found inside Yale campus building 3:34
Sept. 14: Police in Connecticut say they found what they believe is the body of missing Yale graduate student Annie Le, who disappeared less than a week before she was supposed to get married. NBC's Jeff Rossen reports.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32837637#32837637
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Evidence in Murder of Yale Student Annie Le May Point to Suspect
Body in Wall Positively Identified as Missing Grad Student Annie Le
Sept. 14, 2009
<snipped>
Investigators zeroed in on a suspect as the medical examiner positively identified the body found stuffed in a wall in a Yale University lab as the missing grad student. The medical examiner's office listed the cause of death as homicide, but withheld the exact manner in which Le died.

The body was discovered Sunday, the same day that Le was supposed to get married.

The suspect who police are looking at has what appear to be defensive wounds, a key piece of circumstantial evidence. In addition, the suspect, who authorities believe knew Le, failed a lie detector test, sources told ABC News. Sources also told ABC News that bloody clothing removed from the lab contained evidence that links the killer to the crime.

Investigators have been looking at everyone from Yale maintenance people to people who worked in the lab and fellow students.

"We're not believing it's a random act," Officer Joe Avery, a police spokesman, told The Associated Press. He would not provide further details but said no one else is in danger.

Though police have seemingly narrowed in on a suspect, the mood around Yale is still one of sadness and uncertainity. The last on-campus murder was the 1998 stabbing death of 21-year-old Suzanne Jovin. There has been no arrest in her death.

Reached in Germany, Thomas Jovin told ABCNews.com that he did not wish to comment on Le's murder or his daughter's.

New Haven Police Officer Joe Avery told ABCNews.com today that authorities didn't start focusing on the lab until a few days after Le was reported missing. Police were initially unsure, he said, if she had voluntarily disappeared in advance of her wedding, scheduled for Sunday, or if she had been a crime victim.

WATCH: Yale Murder Victim Found on Wedding Day
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8574201

WATCH: Body Believed to Be Missing Yale Student
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8565928

WATCH: Missing Student's Friend Speaks Out
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8554735

Article:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/evidence-annie-le-murder-lead-killer/story?id=8565647
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tragic Find In Search for Yale Student
Body of 24-year-old Bride-to-be Apparently Found in Wall of University Building Accessible Only to Students and Staff
NEW HAVEN, Conn., Sept. 14, 2009
<snipped>
Just seven months before police found what they believe is Annie Le's body hidden in a Yale University building, the graduate student wrote a magazine article about how to stay safe on the streets around the Ivy League school.

The 24-year-old bride-to-be, who had been missing since Tuesday, apparently met a violent death in a secure Yale building accessible only to students and staff, police said Sunday on what was supposed to be her wedding day.

Police would not confirm reports that another student was being questioned and had failed a lie detector test, CBS News correspondent Randall Pinkston reported on CBS' "The Early Show."

Video: Yale Student's Body Found
Yale Student's Body Found - CBS News Video

Photos: Student Found Dead on Wedding Day
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/09/11/crimesider/photoessay5303665.shtml

Article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/14/national/main5309172.shtml?tag=contentBody;cbsCarousel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yale Student's Slaying an Inside Job?
Police Say No Suspect in Custody Despite Reports that a Student Suspect Failed Polygraph Test
NEW HAVEN, Conn., Sept. 14, 2009
Updated 6:16 p.m. EDT
<snipped>
Clues increasingly pointed to an inside job Monday in the slaying of a Yale graduate student whose body was found stuffed inside a wall five days after she vanished from a heavily secured lab building accessible only to university employees.

Police confirmed Monday that the body found Sunday was Le's and that Chief State Medical Examiner Wayne Carver had ruled the death a homicide.

Police on Monday sought to calm fears on the Ivy League campus, saying the death of 24-year-old Annie Le was a targeted act. But they declined to name a suspect or say why anyone would want to kill the young woman just days before she was to be married.

Earlier, media outlets reported that a student was being questioned and had failed a lie detector test, CBS News correspondent Randall Pinkston reported on CBS' "The Early Show." Later reports said the suspect also had defensive wounds.

"We're not believing it's a random act," said officer Joe Avery, a police spokesman. No one else is in danger, he said, though he would not provide details and denied broadcast reports that police had a suspect in custody.

Yale officials said the building would reopen under increased security. Still, some students worried about their safety.

"I'm not walking at nights by myself anymore," said student Natoya Peart, 21, of Jamaica. "It could happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere."

Michael Vishnevetsky, 21, of New York, said he did not feel safe when he made a late trip to his lab Sunday in a different building. "It felt very different than how I usually felt," he said.

Twenty-year-old Muneeb Sultan said he's shocked that a killing could take place in a secure Yale building.

"It's a frightening idea that there's a murderer walking around on campus," said Sultan, a chemistry student.

Photos: Annie Le murder
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/09/11/crimesider/photoessay5303665.shtml

"Crime and Safety in New Haven," By Annie Le (PDF)
http://bbs.yale.edu/images/B10_1.pdf

Video: The Early Show:" Yale Student's Body Found
Yale Student's Body Found - CBS News Video

Video: Yale Murder Investigation
Yale Murder Investigation - CBS News Video

Article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/14/national/main5310607.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Annie Le’s Facebook page: A wall of tributes
September 14, 2009
<snipped>
The body found in a Yale University building over the weekend is that of student Annie Le, the Yale student missing for nearly a week, medical examiners said. The remains were found inside a basement wall in the medical research building.

Le, a 24-year-old graduate student, was last seen entering the building Tuesday morning. She was to be married Sunday.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/14/gal.anniele.facebook.jpg

Article:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/14/annie-les-facebook-page-a-wall-of-tributes/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Evening Buzz: Yale Murder Mystery
September 14, 2009
<snipped>
An autopsy confirms the body found in a Yale University medical research building over the weekend is that of Annie Le, a grad student who vanished last week.

The 24-year-old was supposed to get married on Sunday, the day her body was found hidden in the basement of the building. Investigators also found bloody clothes hidden in a drop ceiling. A Yale professor tells CNN the circumstances in the case suggest there could be a “murderer among us.” Tonight we’ll have the latest on the investigation.

We’re also digging deeper on the political rage in America. Did you see the anti-Obama march on Saturday in Washington? I’m sure you remember Rep. Joe Wilson calling Pres. Obama as he gave a speech on health care to Congress last week. What’s fueling the outbursts? We’re talk it over with our political panel.

Join us for these stories and much more starting at 10pm ET. See you then!

Article:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/14/evening-buzz-yale-murder-mystery/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
YouTube - Latest on Yale homicide case

YouTube - Body found inside Yale building

YouTube - Positive ID made in Yale killing

YouTube - Media, FBI swarm to crime scene


:angel:

[Angel Who Cares]

Sierra foothill town mourns its 'next Einstein'
September 15, 2009
<snipped>
It's a long way to Yale University from the roomy ranch house at the end of a dirt road where Annie Le grew up.

Snuggled beneath thick oak trees about 2,000 feet above sea level in the Sierra foothills, the home where Le lived with her aunt, uncle and a brother is a 15-mile drive along twisting, mostly paved roads from the 1860s Pony Express stop of El Dorado, population 1,583.

That's where her high school classmates voted Le "most likely to be the next Einstein." It's a prophecy the whip-smart 24-year-old seemed on the path to fulfilling before her body was found in Connecticut, packed into a wall at the Yale School of Medicine building where she was last seen Sept. 8.

Now, 3,000 miles back west in the wooded backwater of horse ranches and cow pastures where she was raised, those who knew her are reeling at the news that the brightest girl anyone can remember coming out of here is gone.

Her senior yearbook depicts a pretty girl, dark hair curving to her shoulders, who was class co-valedictorian with a 4.28 grade-point average, played tennis and was active in the campus Culture Club. She and her fellow valedictorian were named "most likely to be the next Einsteins."

Beneath her class picture she wrote: "I shall assert that until I assume the place in society which mere whim assigns me, humanity must advance but feebly."

Article:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/14/BA2M19N4QG.DTL&tsp=1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BODY IS IDENTIFIED; CAMPUS MOURNS
Published Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
After the speeches and the prayers, Cross Campus fell silent, the faces of over 2,000 people illuminated by burning candles. Then out of nowhere a hum began. It grew until it became a tune: “Amazing Grace.” Once that faded, the sound of a lone violin came out of Berkeley College, playing the same song.

Students, faculty members and staff from around Yale gathered on Cross Campus on Monday night to honor the memory of Annie Le MED ’13 in a candlelight vigil arranged by undergraduate organizations, cultural houses and Yale administrators. The vigil came after a day of mourning within the Yale community.

“I am reminded that we are an extraordinary community, a community of concern,” University President Richard Levin said during the 20-minute service. Levin also asked all concerned students to “please seek help” during what he called “this horrendous trauma.”

His introductory remarks were followed by a prayer by University Chaplain Sharon Kugler, who had been with Le’s family prior to the vigil. As Kugler finished, she brought up Le’s roommate of two years, Natalie Powers GRD ’13, who struggled to describe her friend, fighting back tears. Powers apologized for stumbling through her remembrance.

While many students received anxious calls from their parents in the days prior, Dean of Yale College Mary Miller sent out an e-mail to parents of undergraduates to reassure them of their children’s safety. In addition to listing Yale’s existing security services, Miller urged parents to tell their children to seek counseling through Yale’s resources if troubled by the events.

Several residential colleges held informal gatherings after the vigil while Yale’s cultural houses held open hours throughout the day.

But for all the talk, perhaps the most profound moment of the day was the silence of Cross Campus as attendees lingered around the steps leading from Sterling Memorial Library to the lawn. Slowly and one-by-one, mourners placed their candles in a single file line along the steps, letting the flames burn as a remembrance of Le’s life cut short.

Photo Gallery: Sep. 15: Remembering Annie Le
A candlelight vigil on the Yale University campus brings students and faculty together to honor and remember Annie Le MED '13
http://www.yaledailynews.com/media/2009/09/15/remembering-annie-le/

Over 2,000 members of the Yale community gathered on Cross Campus last night for a candlelight vigil remembering Annie Le MED ’13.
http://media.yaledailynews.com/media/cache/images/2009/09/15/carvalho_vigil-33_jpg_512x1000_q85.jpg

http://media.yaledailynews.com/media/cache/images/2009/09/15/galvan_vigil-23_jpg_200x1000_q85.jpg

http://media.yaledailynews.com/media/cache/images/2009/09/15/shenson_vigil-50_jpg_200x1000_q85.jpg

Slideshow: Mourning the Death of Annie Le
http://www.yaledailynews.com/media/2009/09/15/mourning-death-annie-le/

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/15/university-unites-mourn-le/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Killer likely works in Amistad Street laboratory
Published Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
The authorities are focusing their efforts on several individuals — including a laboratory technician — known to have been in the basement of 10 Amistad St. at the time when Annie Le MED ’13 was murdered, according to three sources familiar with the investigation.

A spokesman for the New Haven Police Department, Joe Avery, said at 1 p.m. Monday that there were no suspects in the investigation. But by 10 p.m., Avery no longer denied that authorities have narrowed in on a few people of interest.

“We have nothing to give out at this point,” he said.

Nevertheless, the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Connecticut confirmed yesterday that the body found in the Yale research facility on Sunday was Le’s. The medical examiner did not release the cause of death; officials at the office said they would announce it this afternoon.

At a meeting of the medical school community Monday afternoon, several audience members — concerned by evidence that the killer had a Yale ID and access to the basement of 10 Amistad St. — asked if the perpetrator is still at large. University President Richard Levin responded by saying that he has confidence Le’s homicide will be resolved. Because security systems in the building recorded who entered the basement and the times at which they entered, the number of potential suspects has been limited to a very small pool, Levin explained.

In his address to the medical school community Monday afternoon, Levin explained that the material of the wall behind which Le’s body was hidden made it difficult for dogs or humans to locate her.

“It was only after a number of days that the scent became detectable,” he said.

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/15/killer-likely-works-lab/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cross Campus: 09.15.09
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
3:25 a.m.
<snipped>
The flag will be flown at half-mast today at the University of Rochester, where Annie Le MED ’13 received her undergraduate degree in cell and developmental biology with honors in 2007.

The Undergraduate Career Services workshop “Killer Cover Letters” will occur at 7:30 p.m. today at UCS. In an e-mail message sent to seniors yesterday afternoon, UCS Director Philip Jones apologized for any insensitivity perceived by the name of the program in light of the killing of Annie Le MED ’13.

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/crosscampus/2009/09/15/cross-campus-091509/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Medical students flock to community meeting
Monday, September 14, 2009
6:18 p.m.
<snipped>
A community meeting at the Yale School of Medicine to reflect on Annie Le MED ’13 had to be moved from its original location in the Hope Memorial Building to the Harkness Auditorium at 333 Cedar Street to accommodate the roughly 550 concerned members of the medical school community who chose to attend.

University President Richard Levin, Vice President Linda Lorimer, Deputy Secretary Martha Highsmith, Security Director George Aylward and Chief Psychiatrist Lorraine Siggins were present to discuss new security measures being implemented on campus and answer questions from the community.

Although he was open to audience members’ suggestions that there be more police presence and camera surveillance in the area, Levin said those things may not have been enough to save Le.

“No amount of hardware can overcome the darkness of the human soul when an evil person decides to do a terrible thing,” Levin said.

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/crosscampus/2009/09/14/medical-students-flock-community-meeting/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ben-Meir: Let us mourn Annie Le
Published Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
Any tragedy contains within itself an untold number of smaller tragedies. Already, the murder of Annie Le MED ’13 is being discussed as an attack on our most basic sense of security, as an act of violence against our city, as a savaging of the natural order. These interpretations are not incorrect, but they confuse the part for the whole. We cannot allow ourselves to forget that the ultimate tragedy of this week’s events is also the smallest in scale; the event, not its implications. When we mourn, we must mourn Annie Le.

This is not as obvious as it sounds. Many of us, myself included, did not know Le. We learned that she loved pigs-in-a-blanket from a profile written after her disappearance, not from having seen her enjoying hors d’oeuvres at parties. To us, her impending marriage was a provocative detail in her story, not the culmination of an actual love, witnessed and understood. We have no knowledge of her as she lived, we know her only in death.

Is it not almost arrogant for us to mourn her personally, when a week ago we did not know her name? Is it not better for us to come to terms with the effect her death has had on our own lives?

The answer is a resounding no. A woman is dead, a marriage destroyed, a future cut short. If we are human, we cannot escape empathy. Le’s tragedy could have belonged to any of us, our friends, our acquaintances. This is not to say that we should mourn her tragedy because she could have been us. We must mourn because she was us.

Let us mourn Annie Le as Annie Le; a woman, not an idea. She walked these streets; she talked in these halls. She read these books and sat with these friends. She lived here, and she died here. Though we did not know her, we mourn Annie Le.

Ilan Ben-Meir is a sophomore in Trumbull College.

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/opinion/guest-columns/2009/09/15/ben-meir-let-us-mourn-annie-le/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A crime scene, unsealed
Published Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
On Friday, about 72 hours after Annie Le MED ’13 was last seen entering 10 Amistad St. through its front doors, two Yale Daily News reporters walked through that same entrance.

They showed their Yale identification cards to a security guard and took the elevator down to the building’s basement. They walked out of the elevator and scoured the basement for information about what was, at the time, thought to be a missing person’s case. At one point, a group of investigators wearing FBI jackets passed them in the hallway but said nothing to them.

All the while, Le’s remains were hidden behind a wall somewhere on that same floor. But the building remained open to Yale faculty, staff and students until Sunday — five full days after Le was last seen — when investigators found Le’s corpse.

“That’s a no-no,” said Henry Lee, a retired commissioner of the Connecticut Department of Public Safety and a director of the Henry Lee Institute of Forensic Science at the University of New Haven. “That’s not supposed to happen.”

Le, who was last seen entering the Amistad Street facility at 10 a.m. Tuesday, was reported missing at about 9 p.m. that night, though police did not inform media outlets until Wednesday afternoon and did not send a message to the entire campus community until Thursday morning.

“We would try to get that out earlier in the future,” Perrotti said of that e-mail. “Hindsight is always 20-20.”

The basement of 10 Amistad St., where the body was found.
http://media.yaledailynews.com/media/cache/images/2009/09/14/basement1_jpg_200x1000_q85.jpg

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/15/crime-scene-unsealed/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Safety in New Haven: a tale of two cities
Published Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
In the wake of the murder of Annie Le MED ’13, the national media has portrayed New Haven as a very “dangerous” place.

“Right next to the Yale campus, there is a dangerous neighborhood,” a “Today” show reporter said Thursday.

“Some say the area around Yale can be a very dangerous area,” an ABC correspondent reported Friday.

But Yale has tried to paint a very different picture.

“It is worth remembering that the city reports that crime in New Haven has decreased by more than 50 percent since 1990,” University Vice President and Secretary Linda Lorimer wrote in an e-mail to the Yale community Saturday.

Even before Le’s killing, students themselves were unsure. In a survey of Yale undergraduates conducted by the News in the three days before the University announced Le’s disappearance, just as many students said they believed New Haven was a safe city as said they believed it dangerous.

Like the similarly jarring murders of students Christian Prince ’91 and Suzanne Jovin ’99, Le’s murder has brought Yale, New Haven and their respective security structures under intense scrutiny.

Rather, Silva said, a murder creates an opportunity to reflect on the way we treat and respond to one another.

Other students took a wait-and-see attitude.

“Realistically, I feel that our world, especially at Yale, is much safer than we imagine,” Alex Klein ’12 wrote in an e-mail message. “That said, there is something viscerally terrifying about what happened to Annie Le, which is going to profoundly affect us — psychologically, as a student body — for years to come.”

Perception vs. Fact
http://media.yaledailynews.com/media/cache/images/2009/09/15/picture%204_png_200x1000_q85.jpg

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/15/safety-new-haven-tale-two-cities/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BODY IDENTIFIED AS ANNIE LE MED ’13
Published Monday, September 14, 2009
<snipped>
The body found at 10 Amistad St. has been identified as the remains of Annie Le MED ’13, according to the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Connecticut.

The manner of death has been classified as a homicide, though the office declined to release the cause of death in order to facilitate the ongoing investigation into Le's death. The cause of death will be released tomorrow at 3 p.m., according to the office.

Since it was classified a homicide on Sunday, the case is being investigated primarily by the New Haven Police Department. NHPD Spokesman Officer Joe Avery said Monday afternoon that there are no suspects, adding that police believe Le was targeted and her killing was not a random act.

Speaking to reporters outside Woodbridge Hall late Sunday night, University President Richard Levin conveyed the “deeply felt support of the entire Yale University community” and said “our hearts go out to the family of Annie Le, to her fiance, to her friends.”

“The investigation will continue,” Levin said. “We have every hope that it will be successfully resolved.”

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/14/body-identified-annie-le-med-13/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Levin addresses shaken medical school community
Published Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
University President Richard Levin addressed a tense audience of roughly 550 students and faculty gathered at the Sterling Hall of Medicine, beginning by reiterating his condolences to Annie Le’s family and loved ones. When he opened the floor to questions from the community, concerns about safety and security quickly became the focus of discussion.

Discussing the range of emotions Le’s death has provoked, Chief Psychiatrist Lorraine Siggins, who spoke after Levin, urged listeners to draw on each other for strength.

“Sadness, loss, anger and distress can make us more irritable and brittle in a time when we should be supportive of each other,” she said.

Levin said he regrets the slow relay of information about developments in the case to the Yale community this past week, calling it a flaw in the University’s handling of the situation thus far. He said the e-mail he wrote to faculty and staff when Le’s body was discovered in the Amistad building Sunday night was sent as soon as it was possible to share the news without impeding the ongoing investigation.

Levin announced there will be a community meeting in Amistad the morning it opens. Although some “essential” researchers will return to Amistad tomorrow to continue their work, officials have not decided when the building will open up to the general public, he added.

Article:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/scitech-news/2009/09/15/levin-addresses-shaken-medical-school-community/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The principal of Union Mine High School in El Dorado, Calif., remembers former student Annie Le. Le's body was found Sunday stuffed inside a wall five days after she vanished from a heavily secured lab building at Yale University. (Sept. 15)
YouTube - First Person: Yale Student's High School Mourns
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clues increasingly pointed to an inside job Monday in the slaying of a Yale graduate student whose body was found stuffed inside a wall five days after she vanished from a heavily secured lab building accessible only to university employees. (Sept. 14)
YouTube - Clues Point to Inside Job in Yale Killing

:angel:

[Waddles]

http://info.med.yale.edu/yarc/keyservices.htm
is this a full list?

[~greeneyedgirl~]

RIP Annie, may justice be swift....

[Angel Who Cares]

Report: Suspect is Yale lab worker
10 Amistad St may reopen today
Updated: Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 6:36 AM EDT
Published : Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 5:37 AM EDT
<snipped>
Investigators appear to be closer to making an arrest in the death of Yale grad student Annie Le, and they may be focusing on a lab worker.

The New Haven Register , citing police sources, reports a lab technician who works inside 10 Amistad St. is the focus of the investigation.

New Haven Police Officer Joe Avery issued a brief statement Monday saying "there are no suspects in custody and no students involved in this case."

The lab building at 10 Amistad St. is expected to be reopened later this morning under increased security. Those who have lab work to do can do so but under the protection of police.

Authorities are analyzing what is being described as a large amount of physical evidence.


Article:
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_haven_cty/news_wtnh_new_haven_police_suspect_lab_worker_2009 09150653

:angel:

[Angel Who Cares]

Clues Point To Inside Job In Yale Killling
Body Of 24-Year-Old Placerville Native Apparently Found In Wall Of University Building Accessible Only To Students And Staff
Sep 15, 2009 12:24 am US/Pacific
<snipped>
Clues increasingly pointed to an inside job Monday in the slaying of a Yale graduate student whose body was found stuffed inside a wall five days after she vanished from a heavily secured lab building accessible only to university employees.

Police on Monday sought to calm fears on the Ivy League campus, saying the death of 24-year-old Annie Le was a targeted act but would not say why anyone would want to kill the young woman just days before she was to be married.

Le was part of a research team headed by her faculty adviser, Anton Bennett. According to its Web site, the Bennett Laboratory was involved in enzyme research that could have implications in cancer, diabetes and muscular dystrophy. Bennett declined to comment Monday on the lab or Le's involvement with it.

Raw Video: Friend Of Slain Yale Student
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55333@kpix.dayport.com

Raw Video: Officials Discuss Search For yale Student
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=19076@cbslocal.dayport.com

Video: Yale University Mourns Slain Student From NorCal
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55348@kpix.dayport.com

Video: Did Annie Le's Killer Trigger Fire Alarm?
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55344@kpix.dayport.com

Video: Tragic Find In NorCal Yale Student Search
Sep. 14, 2009, 12:54 p.m. Pacific
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55328@kpix.dayport.com

Video: Tragic Find In NorCal Yale Student Search
Sep. 14, 2009, 8:40 a.m. Pacific
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55308@kpix.dayport.com

Video: Police: Missing NorCal Yale Student's Body Found
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55298@kpix.dayport.com

Video: Police Say Body Found At Yale May Be Annie Le
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=55295@kpix.dayport.com

Article:
http://cbs5.com/crime/missing.yale.student.2.1182442.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thousands at Yale light candles for Le
Updated: Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 6:14 AM EDT
Published : Monday, 14 Sep 2009, 12:52 PM EDT
<snipped>
Prayers, tears, silence and words of condolence Monday night as thousands of people attended a candlelight vigil for murdered graduate student Annie Le at Yale's Cross Campus.

"That this horrible tragedy happened at all is incomprehensible. But that it happened to her is infinitely more so," said Le's roommate, who spoke at the vigil.

Flames flickered in the night; the yellow glow served as a reminder of how fragile life can be. More than 1,000 people stood in silence, alone with their thoughts and memories and tears.

Le, 24, vanished from her lab building in broad daylight Sept. 8th. Sunday her body was found inside the same building. Annie's roommate asked people to pray.

"Romans 8:28: All things work together for good. It's a comfort that I think she would want us to have; this isn't just senseless, God is in control and something good will come out of this," said Le's roommate.

Article:
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/news_wtnh_new_haven_candlelight_vigil_200909141250

:angel:

[Labrat]

http://info.med.yale.edu/yarc/keyservices.htm
is this a full list?

Very doubtful. see previous page for explanation.

[Trino]

While we don't know why Annie was killed, it's obvious the murderer isn't the brightest person. Did he really think Annie's body would never be discovered? Did he think the bloody clothing would never be found or stratches on his body would never be seen? Did he really have hopes of getting away with this?

[Waddles]

Very doubtful. see previous page for explanation.


Thanks, guess I didn't read properly :)

[Toi]

NBC Today just said that the police told them they expect an arrest shortly.

[Toi]

They mentioned that it WAS someone in her lab group.

[Toi]

While we don't know why Annie was killed, it's obvious the murderer isn't the brightest person. Did he really think Annie's body would never be discovered? Did he think the bloody clothing would never be found or stratches on his body would never be seen? Did he really have hopes of getting away with this?


He probably wasnt thinking his actions all the way thru. My guess is that he was in love/obsessed with her and she had no clue that is was as strong as it was. He most likely confronted her and she didnt react the way HE wanted her to. The dumbest criminals seem to be those with higher IQ's. They just seem to lack the common sense gene. I know from own personal experiences with my ex hubby. Chances of him being a paranoid schizophrenic or having a severe personality disorder are very likely. JMO

[Labrat]

They mentioned that it WAS someone in her lab group.

Oh wow! That would really surprise me- did they mention a press conference or a time frame for an announcement?

[Labrat]

The basement houses rodents, mostly mice, used for scientific testing by multiple Yale researchers, said Robert Alpern, dean of the Yale University School of Medicine.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32854576/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Finally confirmed.

[razzyberry]

Im not sure I agree with the paranoid schizophrenic possibility.

[Toi]

Oh wow! That would really surprise me- did they mention a press conference or a time frame for an announcement?


No not yet. Just said that they had been told to expect an arrest shortly later today. That he did have scratches all over his chest. Im guessing that they are testing all the DNA so when they do arrest him they never let his evilness outta jail again. They are dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's so there will be no loopholes for him to crawl out of at any point. JMO

[Trino]

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/AP-Photo2FCourtesy-Union-Mine-High-School/photo//090915/480/44601fb60f764eb88d45a7a2db8ba4a2//s:/ap/20090915/ap_on_re_us/us_yale_killing#photoViewer=/090915/480/d560044e798e447a9b2ed2c0cceab51e

Yahoo has 75 pictures, some of which I've not seen before. The first few are of the candlelight remembrance, so I started at this point.

[christine2448]

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212256187.shtml

According to the reports, an arrest is imminent as police close in on a lab technician, who apparently failed a lie detector test and was covered in unexplained scratches.
Annie Le was to marry a Columbia University graduate student Sunday in Long Island, N.Y.
The newspaper said that bloody clothes were found in a drop ceiling in the building housing the lab, where Le was doing a research project. Her cell phone, wallet and keys were found in her nearby office at Yale Medical School.

Breaks my heart, she was supposed marry on Sunday. How very devastating for all involved.

[Labrat]

No not yet. Just said that they had been told to expect an arrest shortly later today. That he did have scratches all over his chest. Im guessing that they are testing all the DNA so when they do arrest him they never let his evilness outta jail again. They are dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's so there will be no loopholes for him to crawl out of at any point. JMO

I will absolutely be shocked if it's a member of Dr. Bennett's Lab. I wonder how they are defining her "group"

If that turns out to be the case, I'd like my crow fried, please!:rolleyes:

[Toi]

Im not sure I agree with the paranoid schizophrenic possibility.


Well I think its very likely. My ex was Nuclear Engineer with and IQ thru the roof but..... he is. They are different types of schizophrenia. The typical idea of someone with PS talking to imaginary people and tvs are NOT the only symptoms of the disease.

[christine2448]

The building where the body was found is part of the university medical school complex about a mile from Yale's main campus. It is accessible to Yale personnel with identification cards. Some 75 video surveillance cameras monitor all doorways.

http://www.connpost.com/breakingnews/ci_13340337

[Toi]

They are talking about the girl that was murdered 10 years ago and if they are connected...

[razzyberry]

Well I think its very likely. My ex was Nuclear Engineer with and IQ thru the roof but..... he is. They are different types of schizophrenia. The typical idea of someone with PS talking to imaginary people and tvs are NOT the only symptoms of the disease.

I know what ps is, my father is one, and they are not typically murderers, however they can be violent if untreated especially if they are using drugs or alcohol.

[Labrat]

They are talking about the girl that was murdered 10 years ago and if they are connected...

Oh for Pete's sake. Didn't they say yesterday that the suspect is 25? Sometimes I can barely stand to watch these reporters.

The mindless yammering they do is beyond annoying.

[Toi]

I know what ps is, my father is one, and they are not typically murderers, however they can be violent if untreated especially if they are using drugs or alcohol.


Just a few names of people that are PS, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dhamer. So I would say they are very much violent. Lots of people are misdiagnosed with OCD or Bi polar disorder along with many others. Sometimes it takes a while for a good Dr to put all the dots together and get these people on the right medication and diagnosed properly.

[Toi]

Oh for Pete's sake. Didn't they say yesterday that the suspect is 25? Sometimes I can barely stand to watch these reporters.

The mindless yammering they do is beyond annoying.


I agree lab. They were saying that is was still unsolved and that the DNA they had hoped would help them was useless in the end. I wonder why tho. They said that she scratched her attacker pretty good and had skin under her nails. I dunno. Im trying to keep up and gets kids fed and off to school. They are all off to school now so I can listen with both ears lol.

[Labrat]

Just a few names of people that are PS, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dhamer. So I would say they are very much violent. Lots of people are misdiagnosed with OCD or Bi polar disorder along with many others. Sometimes it takes a while for a good Dr to put all the dots together and get these people on the right medication and diagnosed properly.

Really? I had not heard that before. I thought they had personality disorders.

[christine2448]

Clues point to inside job in Yale slaying (http://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/WireHeadlines/2009/09/15/clues-point-to-inside-job-in-yale-slayin-5.php)

[daisy7]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32855008#32855008

[Labrat]

I agree lab. They were saying that is was still unsolved and that the DNA they had hoped would help them was useless in the end. I wonder why tho. They said that she scratched her attacker pretty good and had skin under her nails. I dunno. Im trying to keep up and gets kids fed and off to school. They are all off to school now so I can listen with both ears lol.

They just never found a match, I think. They would have to have the correct suspect to test it against, or the perp would have to already be in a database.
it must have been a really random attack by a stranger to her, or someone she knew they just absolutely did not suspect at all.

Jeez, I have to leave for work soon and I can hardly tear myself away from here. I just know there'll be a big announcement during my commute.

[Toi]

Really? I had not heard that before. I thought they had personality disorders.


Unfortunately I've been schooled on this subject for way to long. I slept next to my ex for 8 years and no clue! He went to the Dr b/c he felt depressed and never came home from the Dr visit. So 5 hours later when I started looking for him I found that he had been committed w/o me knowing. The Dr told him that if he didn't go w/o calling me or anyone else he would have the FBI at my house within the hour to pick him up! I honestly never had a clue. He was stalking a woman and was going to kill her. I wont elaborate on the details of what he was going to do to this woman. It makes me sick still. The perp might not have PS it was just a thought of mine. With the 15 yrs I shared with my ex I guess I look for it in killers. I kept telling the Dr you don't know him I do tho. The Dr told me "Lady you have no idea who you sleep next to every night."

[Toi]

A spokeswoman for the chief state medical examiner's office told The Associated Press that the cause of Annie Le's death would be released after 3 p.m. Tuesday. The office had been withholding its report to assist the police investigation.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9ANP1N83

[Chili Fries]

I will absolutely be shocked if it's a member of Dr. Bennett's Lab. I wonder how they are defining her "group"

If that turns out to be the case, I'd like my crow fried, please!:rolleyes:

What the NBC reporter said is that the perp worked in the "very same research lab" as Annie so that could probably mean the lab area where she was killed, thus an Animal Resource guy.

[Toi]

What the NBC reporter said is that the perp worked in the "very same research lab" as Annie so that could probably mean the lab area where she was killed, thus an Animal Resource guy.


Tks labrat was a lil hectic around here at the moment.

[Labrat]

Unfortunately I've been schooled on this subject for way to long. I slept next to my ex for 8 years and no clue! He went to the Dr b/c he felt depressed and never came home from the Dr visit. So 5 hours later when I started looking for him I found that he had been committed w/o me knowing. The Dr told him that if he didn't go w/o calling me or anyone else he would have the FBI at my house within the hour to pick him up! I honestly never had a clue. He was stalking a woman and was going to kill her. I wont elaborate on the details of what he was going to do to this woman. It makes me sick still. The perp might not have PS it was just a thought of mine. With the 15 yrs I shared with my ex I guess I look for it in killers. I kept telling the Dr you don't know him I do tho. The Dr told me "Lady you have no idea who you sleep next to every night."

Wow. It must have all been so painful for you. No wonder you look for it in people. I'm always looking for personality disorders for a similar reason. Once you've been burned, I think your perception of people is forever changed.

[postdoc]

Labrat, Gene and others have already covered most of this, but I thought I would throw my hat in the ring!

As has been reported, the basement of Amistad appears to be a large animal facility housing rodents for research studies. The facility would be shared by many investigators, and is most likely subdivided into "suites". Anton Bennett's mice possibly occupied one or two suites.

There would also be seperate "procedure rooms". In Annie's case, given that she was working on diabetes, this is where she would take her mice to do such experiments as monitoring blood glucose etc.

The animal facility is staffed by superivsors and animal/lab techs. There are also vet/vet techs that rotate through all the univerity animal facilities. The animal/lab techs look after the rodents on a day-to-day basis. They change, food/water, monitor general animal well bieing, cage overcrowding etc. It is a tough job, and not particularly glamorous.

Lab/animal techs are usually assigned to particular suites, so it is more than likely that Annie interacted with the same person/tech on a regular basis. The lab techs listed on the Bennett homepage are different to these lab/animal techs. While the Bennett lab techs may be involved in animal studies - like Annie, they would travel back and forth from Amistad to their actual lab space. By contrast, the lab/animal techs spend all of their time in the animal facility. It is not clear who the media are actually referring to. In fact, given the facility is shared by multiple investigators, the "lab tech" referred to in the media could be from another research lab all together. It really is impossible to tell.

From what I have read, Annie had recently decided on her PhD thesis topic. This suggests that she was early in her graduate career, and had probably been working in the Bennett lab for less that 6 months.

With this is mind, it seems surprising that she would make an impression on a lab/animal tech in such a short time - but certainly not impossible. Come to think of it, if her project was heavily reliant on mouse studies, she could be spending several hours per day in the animal facility. It is unlikely that she would see or interact with the lab/animal tech outside the animal facility - the techs are usually finished by 4-5pm, while Annie sounds like she typically worked late.

The animal facilities will have large autoclaves for sterilizing waste as well as large racks of rodent cages/bedding prior to use. Certainly large enough for an adult human. I can't imagine what would happen if you autoclaved a body, but it may explain why an autopsy was required to positively identify the body. I am worried that if autocalving was involved, forensic evidence may be compromised.

As someone else pointed out, autoclaving a body may generate a large amount of extra steam due to the body containing a lot of water. This may have overwhelmed the built-in exhaust system, and triggered the alarm. Once the animal facility was emptied of staff, the suspect would have ample time to dispose of the body in the manner described. This link mentions strategies to deal with the generation of liquid (steam?) when autoclaving animal carcasses.

http://tempico.gostrategic.com/dynamic.php?pg=Applications/Infectious

Let's hope that authorities can make an arrest shortly. RIP Annie Le.

[Labrat]

What the NBC reporter said is that the perp worked in the "very same research lab" as Annie so that could probably mean the lab area where she was killed, thus an Animal Resource guy.


Thanks, Chili- I heard that later also. The media is causing so much confusion calling everything a "lab"

[Jersey*Girl]

Technician= working for a salary
Graduate Student= working for a degree (masters or PH.D)
Post-doc= Has already earned a Ph.D.(doctorate)

A technician is usually (though not necessarily) a university gradute. They may have a master's degree. They are often, though not always put on publications, either as an author, or with "special thanks". But they are employees, working a fixed number of hours for a salary and benefits. They are not working on a degree. They do not decide their own projects. They work on the projects given to them by a professor or a post-doc or someone else in the lab. Sometimes the term lab technician maybe used generically to mean any salaried employee working in a lab. For example, an animal technician maybe called a lab technician, even though they may not be doing research, but just responsible for taking care of animals.

A Graduate student is always a university graduate. They are working independantly but with guidance from their advisor, the professor whose lab they are in. They earn no salary. They may or may not have a stipend, a very small monthly allowance, which may either come from the department, or their professor's grant or somewhere else. But they are working for a degree, not for a salary. (As an example, I had a stipend for most of my graduate work from my professor's grant. But one year, my professor lost his grant. My stipend stopped during that period, but I kept working.)

No one would use the term technician in relationship to Annie. It makes no sense at all. She was a graduate student.

OMGosh, Gene, thank you...does this mean I could be on the right track then? Now, we know that 10 Amistad Street Building houses the sensitive...let me clarify...the most sensitive cutting edge experiments and technology that Yale offers. This building is considered in the top 3 best research facilities in the entire world.

I've found last night that it's comprised of 3 research programs. Each of these programs has investigators and researchers. It is very secure and not like a "lab" that any normal layperson woud think of. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking it would make sense if Annie was part of The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics...again, not sure. What I do know from reading this and some other articles about this cutting edge state of the art facility is that contrary to belief - these departments interact with one another, share ideas, data, etc. The 3 research programs housed at Amistad are The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics, Human and Translational Immunology Program, and Yale Stem Cell Center. Each program has investigators in charge and researchers that work under them. I am finding that although this is a huge building as far as square footage is concerned, the number of people with access if extremely limited. In other words, nowhere have I found that thousands of students or faculty have access to all floors and rooms of this building. That in and of itself narrows things down a bit.

This is just one link with some snippets following:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/graphics/amistad-large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/05102007.html&usg=__qa96FUjfkMARdVvQimfpK88GesY=&h=168&w=250&sz=58&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=s-34heOhXHz1tM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3D10%2BAmistad%2BStreet%2BYale%26gbv%3D 2%26hl%3Den

Quote
Pober, head of the Human and Translational Immunology Program and vice chair of Immunobiology, says the opening of the $88.6 million building is a milestone for science at the medical school. Not only does it provide much-needed lab space for several dozen investigators, but it will enable them to collaborate in ways that will produce results greater than the sum of the parts.

Unlike traditional biomedical research teams—often composed of members of one discipline working in a single animal model—the three research programs housed in the 120,000-square-foot building draw from multiple departments and have shifted their focus solely from rodent studies to better understanding what works—and doesn’t work—in humans.

“The challenge is not to abandon animal research,” Pober says, “but to assemble other individuals who can be a bridge between people who study disease models and clinicians who take care of patients.”
Unquote

So now I'm back to square one. I do believe now that in this building, and considering it's occupants' responsibilities, a lab tech would have more duties/responsibilities than your average "everyday" lab tech by definition...including working with small rodents such as the mice Annie was using. I'm truly thinking that this term is being used loosely just as LabRat has suggested and is just a classification used by a layperson that may really not know the difference.

[Kat]

Welcome to Websleuths postdoc, great first post.

To others on the thread that are caught up (I had to leave yesterday afternoon and haven't been back until now) no suspect named is what I'm getting? Correct? Thanks in advance.

[Labrat]

Labrat, Gene and others have already covered most of this, but I thought I would throw my hat in the ring!

As has been reported, the basement of Amistad appears to be a large animal facility housing rodents for research studies. The facility would be shared by many investigators, and is most likely subdivided into "suites". Anton Bennett's mice possibly occupied one or two suites.

There would also be seperate "procedure rooms". In Annie's case, given that she was working on diabetes, this is where she would take her mice to do such experiments as monitoring blood glucose etc.

The animal facility is staffed by superivsors and animal/lab techs. There are also vet/vet techs that rotate through all the univerity animal facilities. The animal/lab techs look after the rodents on a day-to-day basis. They change, food/water, monitor general animal well bieing, cage overcrowding etc. It is a tough job, and not particularly glamorous.

Lab/animal techs are usually assigned to particular suites, so it is more than likely that Annie interacted with the same person/tech on a regular basis. The lab techs listed on the Bennett homepage are different to these lab/animal techs. While the Bennett lab techs may be involved in animal studies - like Annie, they would travel back and forth from Amistad to their actual lab space. By contrast, the lab/animal techs spend all of their time in the animal facility. It is not clear who the media are actually referring to. In fact, given the facility is shared by multiple investigators, the "lab tech" referred to in the media could be from another research lab all together. It really is impossible to tell.

From what I have read, Annie had recently decided on her PhD thesis topic. This suggests that she was early in her graduate career, and had probably been working in the Bennett lab for less that 6 months.

With this is mind, it seems surprising that she would make an impression on a lab/animal tech in such a short time - but certainly not impossible. Come to think of it, if her project was heavily reliant on mouse studies, she could be spending several hours per day in the animal facility. It is unlikely that she would see or interact with the lab/animal tech outside the animal facility - the techs are usually finished by 4-5pm, while Annie sounds like she typically worked late.

The animal facilities will have large autoclaves for sterilizing waste as well as large racks of rodent cages/bedding prior to use. Certainly large enough for an adult human. I can't imagine what would happen if you autoclaved a body, but it may explain why an autopsy was required to positively identify the body. I am worried that if autocalving was involved, forensic evidence may be compromised.

As someone else pointed out, autoclaving a body may generate a large amount of extra steam due to the body containing a lot of water. This may have overwhelmed the built-in exhaust system, and triggered the alarm. Once the animal facility was emptied of staff, the suspect would have ample time to dispose of the body in the manner described. This link mentions strategies to deal with the generation of liquid (steam?) when autoclaving animal carcasses.

http://tempico.gostrategic.com/dynamic.php?pg=Applications/Infectious

Let's hope that authorities can make an arrest shortly. RIP Annie Le.

Welcome, Postdoc! The whole autoclave thing makes me so upset- I can barely stand to think of it as a possibility. I so hope that is not the case. I've always been afraid of those autoclaves- I watch too many horror movies, I guess.

Jeez, Animal facilities are all exactly the same, aren't they? You could be describing mine.

[Jersey*Girl]

postdoc, as well as others I may have missed last night, WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS! It's a very addictive site! Thank you for this indepth post. It's so nice to be able to understand better when people such as yourself, labrat, & gene post...makes it more enlightening.

Good morning everyone.

[Toi]

Welcome to Websleuths postdoc, great first post.

To others on the thread that are caught up (I had to leave yesterday afternoon and haven't been back until now) no suspect named is what I'm getting? Correct? Thanks in advance.


Not yet. Reports saying 3 today tho.

[Labrat]

OMGosh, Gene, thank you...does this mean I could be on the right track then? Now, we know that 10 Amistad Street Building houses the sensitive...let me clarify...the most sensitive cutting edge experiments and technology that Yale offers. This building is considered in the top 3 best research facilities in the entire world.

I've found last night that it's comprised of 3 research programs. Each of these programs has investigators and researchers. It is very secure and not like a "lab" that any normal layperson woud think of. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking it would make sense if Annie was part of The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics...again, not sure. What I do know from reading this and some other articles about this cutting edge state of the art facility is that contrary to belief - these departments interact with one another, share ideas, data, etc. The 3 research programs housed at Amistad are The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics, Human and Translational Immunology Program, and Yale Stem Cell Center. Each program has investigators in charge and researchers that work under them. I am finding that although this is a huge building as far as square footage is concerned, the number of people with access if extremely limited. In other words, nowhere have I found that thousands of students or faculty have access to all floors and rooms of this building. That in and of itself narrows things down a bit.

This is just one link with some snippets following:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/graphics/amistad-large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/05102007.html&usg=__qa96FUjfkMARdVvQimfpK88GesY=&h=168&w=250&sz=58&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=s-34heOhXHz1tM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3D10%2BAmistad%2BStreet%2BYale%26gbv%3D 2%26hl%3Den

Quote
Pober, head of the Human and Translational Immunology Program and vice chair of Immunobiology, says the opening of the $88.6 million building is a milestone for science at the medical school. Not only does it provide much-needed lab space for several dozen investigators, but it will enable them to collaborate in ways that will produce results greater than the sum of the parts.

Unlike traditional biomedical research teams—often composed of members of one discipline working in a single animal model—the three research programs housed in the 120,000-square-foot building draw from multiple departments and have shifted their focus solely from rodent studies to better understanding what works—and doesn’t work—in humans.

“The challenge is not to abandon animal research,” Pober says, “but to assemble other individuals who can be a bridge between people who study disease models and clinicians who take care of patients.”
Unquote

So now I'm back to square one. I do believe now that in this building, and considering it's occupants' responsibilities, a lab tech would have more duties/responsibilities and your average "everyday" lab tech by definition...including working with small rodents such as the mice Annie was using.

Annie was not involved in any of the research labs housed in that building, as far as has been reported- she went there for the animal facility. Very often, your mice are housed in a different building than the one your lab is in. Animal space is ALWAYS at a premium and the animal facility is a separate entity- you have to take the space they can give you, even if it's on the opposite side of the campus. Since she was in Dr. Bennett's lab in the other building- those are the programs/labs you would need to look at. She is in Dr. Bennett's lab because her research is a part of what he is doing.

[milton99]

question: does anyone know what year Annie was in at Yale? Was this her first year?

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/09/news/new_haven/doc4aa81466a1c69280934081.txt

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/post_479.php

These articles report that Annie was a third-year doctoral student.

[milton99]

I thought this was a good article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_dna_is_gonna_be_the_gotcha_that_traps_killer.ht ml

[Gene]

OMGosh, Gene, thank you...does this mean I could be on the right track then? Now, we know that 10 Amistad Street Building houses the sensitive...let me clarify...the most sensitive cutting edge experiments and technology that Yale offers. This building is considered in the top 3 best research facilities in the entire world.

I've found last night that it's comprised of 3 research programs. Each of these programs has investigators and researchers. It is very secure and not like a "lab" that any normal layperson woud think of. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking it would make sense if Annie was part of The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics...again, not sure. What I do know from reading this and some other articles about this cutting edge state of the art facility is that contrary to belief - these departments interact with one another, share ideas, data, etc. The 3 research programs housed at Amistad are The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics, Human and Translational Immunology Program, and Yale Stem Cell Center. Each program has investigators in charge and researchers that work under them. I am finding that although this is a huge building as far as square footage is concerned, the number of people with access if extremely limited. In other words, nowhere have I found that thousands of students or faculty have access to all floors and rooms of this building. That in and of itself narrows things down a bit.

This is just one link with some snippets following:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/graphics/amistad-large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/05102007.html&usg=__qa96FUjfkMARdVvQimfpK88GesY=&h=168&w=250&sz=58&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=s-34heOhXHz1tM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3D10%2BAmistad%2BStreet%2BYale%26gbv%3D 2%26hl%3Den

Quote
Pober, head of the Human and Translational Immunology Program and vice chair of Immunobiology, says the opening of the $88.6 million building is a milestone for science at the medical school. Not only does it provide much-needed lab space for several dozen investigators, but it will enable them to collaborate in ways that will produce results greater than the sum of the parts.

Unlike traditional biomedical research teams—often composed of members of one discipline working in a single animal model—the three research programs housed in the 120,000-square-foot building draw from multiple departments and have shifted their focus solely from rodent studies to better understanding what works—and doesn’t work—in humans.

“The challenge is not to abandon animal research,” Pober says, “but to assemble other individuals who can be a bridge between people who study disease models and clinicians who take care of patients.”
Unquote

So now I'm back to square one. I do believe now that in this building, and considering it's occupants' responsibilities, a lab tech would have more duties/responsibilities than your average "everyday" lab tech by definition...including working with small rodents such as the mice Annie was using. I'm truly thinking that this term is being used loosely just as LabRat has suggested and is just a classification used by a layperson that may really not know the difference.

I think that at this stage, when we hear that the suspect is a lab tech, all we really know is:

* They were working in the research area (not administrative).
* They are not a student (like Annie)
* They are not an academic (like a Prof. or a post doc)
* They are not a maintence person or someone else.
* They are an employee, working regular hours somehow related to research. We do not know if they are working in Annie's group, in another research group, taking care of animals, etc.
* I do not think we can say anything about their responsibilities whether they are more or less important.

Postdoc, I can not really imagine that the killer would first put Annie in an autoclave AND THEN move her to the wall. The thought would digust most people, probably even most killers. I think that the autoclave idea was suggested by someone early in the discussion before we knew she was finally found in the wall. I think the autoclave idea should be put to rest for now.

[milton99]

The agonizing wait is close to an end (I think):

AUTOPSY RESULTS EXPECTED ON YALE GRAD STUDENT AFTER 3PM TODAY

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9ANPM3G0

[Jersey*Girl]

Annie was not involved in any of the research labs housed in that building, as far as has been reported- she went there for the animal facility. Very often, your mice are housed in a different building than the one your lab is in. Animal space is ALWAYS at a premium and the animal facility is a separate entity- you have to take the space they can give you, even if it's on the opposite side of the campus. Since she was in Dr. Bennett's lab in the other building- those are the programs/labs you would need to look at. She is in Dr. Bennett's lab because her research is a part of what he is doing.

Good morning LabRat. Ok, I believe I have it down now. Annie's roommate, at least I think it was her roommate, specifically said she went to Amistad to do some experiments. She specifically said that's where she spent most of her time. That's why I'm so focussed on Amistad and the area she was in. I'm getting that her mice were probably kept at Amistad, not at a different facility. That's what's confusing. She spent sooo much time at Amistad, and the area/space she did her experiments was in the basement. I know Annie's office is in Sterling, but she did most of her work at Amistad. Since I've found that this facility houses 3 main research programs, I've found that access is limited. Annie may not have been an official part of the Vascular Biology and Therapeutics program, but she would have been working in that area since each program is designated an area. That program is housed in 2 floors. Even though these 3 programs have their designated areas, they still interact, but not everyone in that building has access to each others rooms or floors. They have to have clearance. That's why I mentioned the program itself, b/c wouldn't that narrow it down as to who would have access vs who wouldn't? Or am I offbase? Again, my pondering mind is in your debt!

Slightly off topic, but I do wonder if there were finger scans or eye scans before entering certain rooms. If not, I certainly question why considering the funding that's gone into this facility. There is great interest in finding a cure for Cancer. With these programs interacting with one another, Yale hopes to expedite vaccines & cures for major diseases. Alot of scientists believe that if a cure for AIDS is found, then a cure for Cancer is found, and the like. Some scientists believe that AIDS is hyped b/c of lower immune systems and that's why it's more prevalent in other 3rd world countries. I'm not sure where I stand on that b/c it's such a hugely exploded disease now. With the technology housed there, and the data supplied, shouldn't it be more contained than just card swipes? For crying out loud, we have premium annual passes to Disney World and my whole family has to swipe their palm in order to enter the park - all of their parks!

[MissJames]

Unfortunately I've been schooled on this subject for way to long. I slept next to my ex for 8 years and no clue! He went to the Dr b/c he felt depressed and never came home from the Dr visit. So 5 hours later when I started looking for him I found that he had been committed w/o me knowing. The Dr told him that if he didn't go w/o calling me or anyone else he would have the FBI at my house within the hour to pick him up! I honestly never had a clue. He was stalking a woman and was going to kill her. I wont elaborate on the details of what he was going to do to this woman. It makes me sick still. The perp might not have PS it was just a thought of mine. With the 15 yrs I shared with my ex I guess I look for it in killers. I kept telling the Dr you don't know him I do tho. The Dr told me "Lady you have no idea who you sleep next to every night."

That's chilling.I'm so glad you are okay.
There was a serial rapist here many years ago.They had a profile and artist rendering,but it took many rapes before a tip came that led to him.He was in a car chase and wrecked .He now has seious brain injuries.
He was a family man,well liked by neighbors,and very helpful in the neighborhood.His wife was clueless.
When I was a volunteer with People Against Rape they told us the Holidays were usually the slowest shifts because most rapists were family men .

[milton99]

What a lack of sensitivity:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iradtaJw064cX37-hAchMgxafizAD9ANNV501

[Labrat]

Good morning Ev1!

actually a male--page 4 lower left corner

http://radonc.urmc.rochester.edu/newsletters/Apr2008newsletter.pdf

Oh wow- you know that may be a common name- that page is not even from Yale. We really should be more careful with things like this, you know?

[milton99]

Sad ... her passing came wayyyyyy too soon, but in a sense, without knowing her personally, it seems like she left this world doing what she loved to do. That can't be said for many, if not most people. RIP, Annie.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/slideshow/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9ANPM3G0?index=0

[Harmony2]

Oh wow- you know that may be a common name- that page is not even from Yale. We really should be more careful with things like this, you know?

That is why I deleted it- after I contemplated. According to the XXX theory the Z iinitialed person had attended Rochester with Annie. At any rate it is a mute point...

[sunsetbeach]

Oh wow- you know that may be a common name- that page is not even from Yale. We really should be more careful with things like this, you know?

The LZ person who has been said to have known Annie in the past went to school with her at UofR. So that "may" be the guy everyone was talking about. Not saying it is but it "may" be.

ETA: However I see that LZ that is on that page is a MD ... I doubt he would be a lab tech.

[msfittz]

Oh wow- you know that may be a common name- that page is not even from Yale. We really should be more careful with things like this, you know?

This guys is also an MD. Would an MD have the title research technician?

[passionflower]

ME and presser at 3 pm announced on FOX news

[jamiect]

That is why I deleted it- after I contemplated. According to the XXX theory the Z iinitialed person had attended Rochester with Annie. At any rate it is a mute point...

I saw the same XXX theory posted on 2 other forums this morning, including a photo of Z and Annie together.

[Labrat]

Good morning LabRat. Ok, I believe I have it down now. Annie's roommate, at least I think it was her roommate, specifically said she went to Amistad to do some experiments. She specifically said that's where she spent most of her time. That's why I'm so focussed on Amistad and the area she was in. I'm getting that her mice were probably kept at Amistad, not at a different facility. That's what's confusing. She spent sooo much time at Amistad, and the area/space she did her experiments was in the basement. I know Annie'soffice is in Sterling, but she did most of her work at Amistad. Since I've found that this facility houses 3 main research programs, I've found that access is limited. Annie may not have been an official part of the Vascular Biology and Therapeutics program, but she would have been working in that area since each program is designated an area. That program is house in 2 floors. Even though these 3 programs have their designated areas, they still interact, but not everyone in that building has access to each others rooms or floors. They have to have clearance. That's why I mentioned the program itself, b/c wouldn't that narrow it down as to who would have access vs who wouldn't? Or am I offbase? Again, my pondering mind is in your debt!

Slightly off topic, but I do wonder if there were finger scans or eye scans before entering certain rooms. If not, I certainly question why considering the funding that's gone into this facility. There is great interest in finding a cure for Cancer. With these programs interacting with one another, Yale hopes to expedite vaccines & cures for major diseases. With the technology houses there, and the data supplied, shouldn't it be more contained than just card swipes? For crying out loud, we have premium annual passes to Disney World and my whole family has to swipe their palm in order to enter the park - all of their parks!

She spent most of her time in Amistad because that's where her mice were kept. Whatever was going on upstairs in that building had nothing to do with her. If they had extra security, she would not have had access. Your ID card does not give you access to everything- they're programmed. You only get access to exactly the areas you need to be. She had access to the basement Amistad animal facility because that's where her mouse room was. I would bet she would not have been able to get into the other animal facilities. Since what happened to her happened in the basement, that's the only access that matters. Anyone who had animals in the basement would have access, no matter which building their lab was in.

All major universities have research programs like that, at that same level.

I've worked at several universities and the swipe cards have been the most common- although one installed palm readers because "borrowing" of cards had become a big problem. I have yet to see an eye scan.

[Angel Who Cares]

Lab Tech Suspected in Annie Le Murder
Candlelight Vigil for Slain Yale Grad Student Annie Le
Sept. 15, 2009
<snipped>
A lab technician is emerging as a suspect in the murder of Yale graduate student Annie Le, sources told ABC News.

The technician, who has not been identified but reportedly worked in the same building with Le, reportedly has what appear to be defensive wounds on his chest, suggesting a violent struggle. Sources said the man failed a polygraph test.

Police denied that they have a suspect in the case but did say that no other students are involved and no one else is in danger.

The building where the body was found is known for good security and not allowing people inside who don't have the proper Yale employee or student identification.

WATCH: Prime Suspect in Yale Murder
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8577732

Article:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/annie-le-prime-suspect-defensive-wounds/story?id=8577442
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sources: Police close in on Yale student’s killer
‘We’re not believing it’s a random act,’ police say as tests confirm homicide
updated 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
<snipped>
The discovery of a Yale University graduate student whose body was stuffed in the wall of a medical research building brought a painful end to the search for a woman who vanished days before she was to wed her college sweetheart.

Now, investigators appear to be closer to determining who killed 24-year-old Annie Le in a heavily secured building accessible only to students and university employees.

New Haven police officer Joe Avery, the department's spokesman, said police believe no other student is involved in the death, but would not respond to questions about the alleged involvement of others.

"We're not believing it's a random act, that's all I'm giving you right now," said Avery.

Law enforcement sources told WNBC-TV their main suspect is a lab technician who works at the building. He was interviewed by police earlier in the week and failed a polygraph test. He also had scratches on his chest that made cops suspicious when they first spoke to him, according to WNBC.

Sources told the station that an arrest is expected to happen as early as Tuesday.

View related photos
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/32854837/displaymode/1176/rstry/32854576/

Today Show video: Police eye suspect in Yale student’s murder 5:49
Sept. 15: Law enforcement sources say they have a suspect in the murder of Yale graduate student Annie Le. NBC's Jeff Rossen reports and criminal profiler Pat Brown discusses the latest developments.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32855008#32855008

Today Show video: 1998 Yale murder still unsolved 2:40
Sept. 15: As police continue to investigate the murder of Yale graduate student Annie Le, TODAY's Natalie Morales takes a look back at another brutal murder that shocked the Yale community in 1998.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32855380#32855380

Article:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/32854576/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lab technician eyed as suspect in murder of Yale student Annie Le
Updated Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 7:12 AM
<snipped>
Cops are zeroing in on a Yale lab tech - who flunked a lie detector test and has scratch marks on his chest - in the murder of grad student Annie Le, sources said Monday.

The employee works in the building where Le's body was found Sunday stuffed in a wall - the same day she was to be wed.

The man has not been arrested, but is under surveillance, the sources said.

The technician has been questioned several times. The scratches on his chest indicate he was in a struggle, they said.

A New Haven police source said the bloody clothing found in Le's lab on Saturday "does belong to the likely killer."

Article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/14/2009-09-14_killing_of_yale_grad_student_annie_le_not_rando m_say_police.html

:angel:

[Labrat]

This guys is also an MD. Would an MD have the title research technician?

That would be extremely unlikely.

[t93]

Welcome, postdoc and thanks for the great first post.


So I am correct in gathering the perp will be in custody by 3:00 today? I really wish less news sources would make this about violence to women until after there is closure. I think many on the big 3 news channels are taking away the focus on Annie Le herself and making it about violence on women in general. While I think it's great they are focusing on this, can they make it about this brilliant young lady only at least until they arrest their suspect?

[JerzWhim]

[quote=milton99;4160172]it seems like she left this world doing what she loved to do. That can't be said for many, if not most people. RIP, Annie.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this. If she died peaceably by her lab table, I would agree to this. But Annie Le left this world deathly wounded and fighting a murderous psycho for who knows how many of her last conscious minutes. When you say it the way you did, you make it sound like she loved being murdered.

[SuziQ]

That's chilling.I'm so glad you are okay.
There was a serial rapist here many years ago.They had a profile and artist rendering,but it took many rapes before a tip came that led to him.He was in a car chase and wrecked .He now has seious brain injuries.
He was a family man,well liked by neighbors,and very helpful in the neighborhood.His wife was clueless.
When I was a volunteer with People Against Rape they told us the Holidays were usually the slowest shifts because most rapists were family men .

BBM. Wow, I had no idea.

Toi, I am so sorry for what you had to go through. But what great insight you shared.

This is what I love about WS. You learn something new everyday.

[Labrat]

I saw the same XXX theory posted on 2 other forums this morning, including a photo of Z and Annie together.

Yes, I saw it also. They've ignored the herd of horses in front of them and have brought in a zebra.

[sunsetbeach]

I saw the same XXX theory posted on 2 other forums this morning, including a photo of Z and Annie together.

I saw a pic of LZ with a woman (if it's the same pic you saw) and they are sitting at a bar. If that's what you are talking about, that is not Annie. If you have another pic in mind can you please share?


ETA: Are you talking about this picture? http://www.yale.edu/denglab/pictures/labnews/suhua/lei_hyejin.jpg

[Gene]

Good morning LabRat. Ok, I believe I have it down now. Annie's roommate, at least I think it was her roommate, specifically said she went to Amistad to do some experiments. She specifically said that's where she spent most of her time. That's why I'm so focussed on Amistad and the area she was in. I'm getting that her mice were probably kept at Amistad, not at a different facility. That's what's confusing. She spent sooo much time at Amistad, and the area/space she did her experiments was in the basement. I know Annie's office is in Sterling, but she did most of her work at Amistad. Since I've found that this facility houses 3 main research programs, I've found that access is limited. Annie may not have been an official part of the Vascular Biology and Therapeutics program, but she would have been working in that area since each program is designated an area. That program is housed in 2 floors. Even though these 3 programs have their designated areas, they still interact, but not everyone in that building has access to each others rooms or floors. They have to have clearance. That's why I mentioned the program itself, b/c wouldn't that narrow it down as to who would have access vs who wouldn't? Or am I offbase? Again, my pondering mind is in your debt!

Slightly off topic, but I do wonder if there were finger scans or eye scans before entering certain rooms. If not, I certainly question why considering the funding that's gone into this facility. There is great interest in finding a cure for Cancer. With these programs interacting with one another, Yale hopes to expedite vaccines & cures for major diseases. Alot of scientists believe that if a cure for AIDS is found, then a cure for Cancer is found, and the like. Some scientists believe that AIDS is hyped b/c of lower immune systems and that's why it's more prevalent in other 3rd world countries. I'm not sure where I stand on that b/c it's such a hugely exploded disease now. With the technology housed there, and the data supplied, shouldn't it be more contained than just card swipes? For crying out loud, we have premium annual passes to Disney World and my whole family has to swipe their palm in order to enter the park - all of their parks!

I believe that Annie was doing basic research, not clinical research. Basic research means that she was attempting to understand how the body functions...It is unlikely, though not impossible that basic research would lead directly to a cure for anything. I really doubt she was killed because of her research.............

[OHdoc]

Newcomer here -

Labrat, postdoc and others have done a great job at educating everyone about the system in place in many university research/lab animal facilities - thank you.

I have worked in similar facilities for nearly a decade as grad student, postdoc and research scientist. Ours is a quite large, modern, new vivarium in the basement of a research tower. Just imagining the unimaginable - it is hard for me to believe that someone could do this in our facility during "business hours" without detection. As postdoc described, ours is arranged in suites, each containing 5-6 individual animal housing rooms and 1 or 2 procedure room. In our facility, each suite is shared by mutliple investigators and there are research personnel (i.e. grad students, postdocs, lab techs) and lab animal techs (i.e. those that work exclusively in the vivarium) going in and out all the time. All of these doors (to the suite, to the animal rooms and to the procedure rooms) have windows. The image one may get from the term "basement" is one of a dark and isolated environment, but these are modern, well-lit, fully staffed facilities.

Certainly, these facilities can be maze-like, and an investigator can have exclusive access/use to an animal room (i.e. unshared with other investigators). But, using our facility as a context, such an act would have to be meticulously planned, or completely spontaneous, if it occurred between 8am - 4pm. Such a bold, horrendous, senseless act.

[Angel Who Cares]

Home video of Annie Le
YouTube - Home video of Annie Le

Lab worker focus of investigation
YouTube - Lab worker focus of investigation

Statement by Richard Levin
YouTube - Statement by Richard Levin

Positive ID made in Yale killing
YouTube - Positive ID made in Yale killing

Candlelight vigil for Annie Le
YouTube - Candlelight vigil for Annie Le

:angel:

[Labrat]

What a lack of sensitivity:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iradtaJw064cX37-hAchMgxafizAD9ANNV501

They probably give that seminar twice a year and send out the same email every time. Just unfortunate timing in this case.

[Jersey*Girl]

Welcome OHdoc!

[Toi]

That's chilling.I'm so glad you are okay.
There was a serial rapist here many years ago.They had a profile and artist rendering,but it took many rapes before a tip came that led to him.He was in a car chase and wrecked .He now has seious brain injuries.
He was a family man,well liked by neighbors,and very helpful in the neighborhood.His wife was clueless.
When I was a volunteer with People Against Rape they told us the Holidays were usually the slowest shifts because most rapists were family men .



Sounds so right on with them being at home with their families. I cant imagine being the BTK's wife. He was involved in so much in his community including a deacon at his church.

[jamiect]

I saw a pic of LZ with a woman (if it's the same pic you saw) and they are sitting at a bar. If that's what you are talking about, that is not Annie. If you have another pic in mind can you please share?

Oooops my bad..I believe you are correct..sorry

[JerzWhim]

Unfortunately I've been schooled on this subject for way to long. I slept next to my ex for 8 years and no clue! He went to the Dr b/c he felt depressed and never came home from the Dr visit. So 5 hours later when I started looking for him I found that he had been committed w/o me knowing. The Dr told him that if he didn't go w/o calling me or anyone else he would have the FBI at my house within the hour to pick him up! I honestly never had a clue. He was stalking a woman and was going to kill her. I wont elaborate on the details of what he was going to do to this woman. It makes me sick still. The perp might not have PS it was just a thought of mine. With the 15 yrs I shared with my ex I guess I look for it in killers. I kept telling the Dr you don't know him I do tho. The Dr told me "Lady you have no idea who you sleep next to every night."

OMG - what a horrible story!!! How did you get through it all? Did the stalkee know she was in danger? Were there any clues when you looked back at your life with him that he was capable of this? And how did you learn to trust again? What signs should someone look for to see if their significant other is capable of such murderous acts?

I apologize for all the questions. I have never heard a tale like yours before and it seems so tied to what happened to poor Annie Le.

[milton99]

[quote=milton99;4160172]it seems like she left this world doing what she loved to do. That can't be said for many, if not most people. RIP, Annie.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this. If she died peaceably by her lab table, I would agree to this. But Annie Le left this world deathly wounded and fighting a murderous psycho for who knows how many of her last conscious minutes. When you say it the way you did, you make it sound like she loved being murdered.

True, but the horrible things that happened to her were beyond her control. None of us knows how or when we're going to die, so I think it's important to live your life to the fullest each and every day. That's all I'm saying. Maybe it's still a little early, but I think it's important to point out that she seemed to be a happy person doing things that made her happy. Life is quality over quantity, IMHO. Just think people should be remembered for the good, and not in any way trying to downplay the horrible circumstances of her passing.

[amysmom]

Originally Posted by Harmony2
Good morning Ev1!

actually a male--page 4 lower left corner

Lower right corner? I thought the name XXX has been ruled out no matter where he was found on web but I could be wrong since I just whizzed tru well over 100 (?) posts this am to catch up..Oy!

Welcome to ALL newbies! :)

[Toi]

BBM. Wow, I had no idea.

Toi, I am so sorry for what you had to go through. But what great insight you shared.

This is what I love about WS. You learn something new everyday.


tks for your kind words. i love coming here learning more and more everyday.

[Labrat]

Newcomer here -

Labrat, postdoc and others have done a great job at educating everyone about the system in place in many university research/lab animal facilities - thank you.

I have worked in similar facilities for nearly a decade as grad student, postdoc and research scientist. Ours is a quite large, modern, new vivarium in the basement of a research tower. Just imagining the unimaginable - it is hard for me to believe that someone could do this in our facility during "business hours" without detection. As postdoc described, ours is arranged in suites, each containing 5-6 individual animal housing rooms and 1 or 2 procedure room. In our facility, each suite is shared by mutliple investigators and there are research personnel (i.e. grad students, postdocs, lab techs) and lab animal techs (i.e. those that work exclusively in the vivarium) going in and out all the time. All of these doors (to the suite, to the animal rooms and to the procedure rooms) have windows. The image one may get from the term "basement" is one of a dark and isolated environment, but these are modern, well-lit, fully staffed facilities.

Certainly, these facilities can be maze-like, and an investigator can have exclusive access/use to an animal room (i.e. unshared with other investigators). But, using our facility as a context, such an act would have to be meticulously planned, or completely spontaneous, if it occurred between 8am - 4pm. Such a bold, horrendous, senseless act.

Absolutely! I'm going with completely spontaneous and it is astounding he wasn't discovered in the act. Our facility has doors with no windows, the ones that do have the windows covered, but still- there's a lot of people in and out at that time of day.

Welcome!

[sunsetbeach]

Oooops my bad..I believe you are correct..sorry

To be honest I don't know who that guy is (I linked that pic in my post above) but it was posted on the site we can not name. It may not even be LZ. I put that pic next to the other one that was on the UofR pic and the one at the bar looks older and heavier than the other one. The UofR pic was from 2008 and not sure when the other was taken.

[Jersey*Girl]

I believe that Annie was doing basic research, not clinical research. Basic research means that she was attempting to understand how the body functions...It is unlikely, though not impossible that basic research would lead directly to a cure for anything. I really doubt she was killed because of her research.............

I've read that the last time she went there, it was to do experiments for her thesis. Also, Annie's acceptance into Bennetts team was not your average research appointment. She was exceptional and recognized as brilliant. The NIH considered her to be very promissing (sp), as well as the department's head. Having said that, I have to respectfully disagree with you on just that one point. Annie was most definitely not your average everyday science student going to a lab to do research. She has been part of published data and is/was without a doubt part of finding certain cures and vaccines...not just how they work. Please, not to be taken out of context...I mean this very respectfully. In other words, she's not your average post degree student. Also, I believe I read that she was sought out for the spot on Bennetts team, not that she applied for it, which could help to show how brilliant this young lady was. May she rip and GOD bless her family & friends. Such a sad loss.

Editing to say that I agree with you. I do not believe she was killed b/c of her research. I think it was a sick idiot that was either infatuated with her or jealous of her.

[amysmom]

I saw the same XXX theory posted on 2 other forums this morning, including a photo of Z and Annie together.

From UOR or Yale?

[OHdoc]

Absolutely! I'm going with completely spontaneous and it is astounding he wasn't discovered in the act. Our facility has doors with no windows, the ones that do have the windows covered, but still- there's a lot of people in and out at that time of day.

Welcome!

Thanks for the welcome. I think unplanned as well, and the autoclave thing (if it happended) would have been a desperate attempt to eliminate forensic evidence.

[msfittz]

I saw a pic of LZ with a woman (if it's the same pic you saw) and they are sitting at a bar. If that's what you are talking about, that is not Annie. If you have another pic in mind can you please share?


ETA: Are you talking about this picture? http://www.yale.edu/denglab/pictures/labnews/suhua/lei_hyejin.jpg

This link takes you to a page for Deng labs - which is part of the plant genomics group. To me that doesn't sound like they would be involved with animals.

Can someone more familiar comment?

[MissJames]

BBM. Wow, I had no idea.

Toi, I am so sorry for what you had to go through. But what great insight you shared.

This is what I love about WS. You learn something new everyday.

I don't know if that's statistical. This was years ago.We had pagers and were on call when a rape victim called police or went to the hospital. I had 3 small kids at the time and would look for lighter shifts.That what I was told.Rapists stay home with their families on holidays,generally speaking.
Point is,you just never know who could be involved.Like Toi,you could be living with them and not have a clue.

[Harmony2]

Lower right corner? I thought the name XXX has been ruled out no matter where he was found on web but I could be wrong since I just whizzed tru well over 100 (?) posts this am to catch up..Oy!

Welcome to ALL newbies! :)

I am fairly new here but not new to forums. My homebase, a forum for the missing, discourages speculation and promotes posting only facts. I deleted the post immediately after I thought about it and the possibility it could be a common name. I am sorry it caused confusion and added to speculation.

need more coffee- going back to my corner to lurk.

[Labrat]

I've read that the last time she went there, it was to do experiments for her thesis. Also, Annie's acceptance into Bennetts team was not your average research appointment. She was exceptional and recognized as brilliant. The NIH considered her to be very promissing (sp), as well as the department's head. Having said that, I have to respectfully disagree with you on just that one point. Annie was most definitely not your average everyday science student going to a lab to do research. She has been part of published data and is/was without a doubt part of finding certain cures and vaccines...not just how they work. Please, not to be taken out of context...I mean this very respectfully. In other words, she's not your average post degree student. Also, I believe I read that she was sought out for the spot on Bennetts team, not that she applied for it, which could help to show how brilliant this young lady was. May she rip and GOD bless her family & friends. Such a sad loss.

Editing to say that I agree with you. I do not believe she was killed b/c of her research. I think it was a sick idiot that was either infatuated with her or jealous of her.

I do not mean to take anything at all away from Annie, but I'm part of published data. Probably all of our science posters here are.

I don't think there is necessarily an "average" post degree student- they're all pretty exceptional, the lay person just never has reason to hear about them. Finding cures/vaccines is a very very long term effort by many people, many labs working towards that goal for many years. I have no doubt Annie was headed for great things, but you must be realistic about this- she really was not doing research for very long in the scheme of things.

[Angel Who Cares]

Lab tech suspected in Yale slaying: Employee had scratches, failed FBI polygraph test
Published: Tuesday, September 15, 2009
<snipped>
Police are focusing on a Yale lab technician who works in the building where a graduate student’s body was found Sunday as her possible killer, police sources confirmed Monday.

The Yale employee, who is involved in animal testing, has been under law enforcement’s microscope since before the body of Annie Le was discovered stuffed in a mechanical chase in the basement of the 120,000-square-foot building at 10 Amistad St.

He had scratches on his chest, which drew police attention, the sources confirmed. He also took, and failed, an FBI-administered polygraph exam, they said, and at some point during questioning invoked his right to have an attorney and stopped answering questions.

Over the last week, police interviewed and re-interviewed roughly 100 people who work in or have access to the building, and the lab technician was among them. He has not been charged and was not in custody Monday.

MULTIMEDIA: Press conference videos and investigation photo galleries
http://nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/14/news/new_haven/doc4aae4ceea8665492563485.txt

VIGIL: ‘Bring light to this unspeakable darkness’
http://nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/15/news/new_haven/a1_--_nevigil.txt

CASE HISTORY: Follow developments in the disappearance of Annie Le
http://nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/14/news/new_haven/doc4aae526207902229089635.txt

Article:
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/15/news/new_haven/a1_--_annielefolo.txt
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DNA will catch Yale grad student Annie Le's killer
Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 4:00 AM
<snipped>
A crime scene investigator in a white haz-mat suit emerged from the red brick lab building to fetch something from a white truck parked on Amistad St.

He returned inside to collect more evidence for another kind of lab, evidence in the murder of pharmacology student Annie Le.

Even before her body was found Sunday, police had taken a keen interest in a technician at this Yale lab building who failed a polygraph test in a big way.

He also has defensive wounds, scratches on his chest reminiscent of the Preppie Killer, Robert Chambers, after he killed Jennifer Levin in Central Park in 1986. Only there is no indication that Le and this lab tech had any kind of social relationship or encounters outside the workplace.

The wounds are equally reminiscent of Joseph Pabon, the elevator operator accused of killing a cleaning woman named Eridania Rodriguez in the Rector St. building where they worked, but were never friendly.

The victim in that case went missing until she was found in an air conditioning duct just as Le went missing before she was found in a utilities conduit.

Article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_dna_is_gonna_be_the_gotcha_that_traps_killer.ht ml

:angel:

[amysmom]

Thanks for the welcome. I think unplanned as well, and the autoclave thing (if it happended) would have been a desperate attempt to eliminate forensic evidence.

Is an autoclave usually in an open area? IOW! Where other students/techs have the same access? If so, seems even less likely perp would take the chance..Can not even imagine the reaction if caught in this act. :eek:

[Labrat]

Thanks for the welcome. I think unplanned as well, and the autoclave thing (if it happended) would have been a desperate attempt to eliminate forensic evidence.

My theory is it was one of the animal techs who had become infatuated with her, finally approached her and it went very badly, with him killing her in a desperate attempt to keep her from alerting anyone else in the facility.

I am thinking he was in a desperate rush to conceal her body and wouldn't have been thinking about forensic evidence.

I may be proven wrong in the end, but I feel that's the best fit with the really minimal information I've found.

[Jersey*Girl]

I do not mean to take anything at all away from Annie, but I'm part of published data. Probably all of our science posters here are.

I don't think there is necessarily an "average" post degree student- they're all pretty exceptional, the lay person just never has reason to hear about them. Finding cures/vaccines is a very very long term effort by many people, many labs working towards that goal for many years. I have no doubt Annie was headed for great things, but you must be realistic about this- she really was not doing research for very long in the scheme of things.

Ok, I understand what you're saying now. Yes, you're right. I took the phrasing to mean "she was "just" doing "basic" research...in a somewhat less important role. Very sorry for the confusion.

On a different note, it was reported that she started volunteering for her local hospital while in high school, just to be involved with their pathology (or) pharmacology department. I think that's amazing. I guess I'm so stuck on this b/c I sure wish I would have finished what I started several years ago...which is the reason I'm going back in the Spring (starting in Spring to go all year long). Anyway, again - thank you.

[Gene]

I've read that the last time she went there, it was to do experiments for her thesis. Also, Annie's acceptance into Bennetts team was not your average research appointment. She was exceptional and recognized as brilliant. The NIH considered her to be very promissing (sp), as well as the department's head. Having said that, I have to respectfully disagree with you on just that one point. Annie was most definitely not your average everyday science student going to a lab to do research. She has been part of published data and is/was without a doubt part of finding certain cures and vaccines...not just how they work. Please, not to be taken out of context...I mean this very respectfully. In other words, she's not your average post degree student. Also, I believe I read that she was sought out for the spot on Bennetts team, not that she applied for it, which could help to show how brilliant this young lady was. May she rip and GOD bless her family & friends. Such a sad loss.

Editing to say that I agree with you. I do not believe she was killed b/c of her research. I think it was a sick idiot that was either infatuated with her or jealous of her.

Jersey Girl, I think you misunderstood me. I did not say she was not exceptional. From what I understood, she probably was brilliant. I am just explaining that there is different types of research. Hers was cutting edge, but not necessarily the type that most people would imagine. It would probably NOT lead to a cure.

I have a crying baby here and can not go into the detail I would like. I am just saying that her research was probably not the reason she was killed. Impossible? NO. Unlikely, yes.

[Labrat]

Is an autoclave usually in an open area? IOW! Where other students/techs have the same access? If so, seems even less likely perp would take the chance..Can not even imagine the reaction if caught in this act. :eek:

Ours is in the clean room- At that time of day it would already be in use sterilizing cages, with 3-4 techs working in the room.

[OHdoc]

Is an autoclave usually in an open area? IOW! Where other students/techs have the same access? If so, seems even less likely perp would take the chance..Can not even imagine the reaction if caught in this act. :eek:

Agreed - I don't know how/why the issue of the autoclave was brought up.

Not only is the autoclave accessible to anyone who has access to the lab animal facility itself (at least in our institution), but running it would take quite a bit of time (to generate the heat and pressure, exposure time, then depressurizing and cooling).

[moonuniti]

[quote=milton99;4160172]it seems like she left this world doing what she loved to do. That can't be said for many, if not most people. RIP, Annie.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this. If she died peaceably by her lab table, I would agree to this. But Annie Le left this world deathly wounded and fighting a murderous psycho for who knows how many of her last conscious minutes. When you say it the way you did, you make it sound like she loved being murdered.

Ok, let's be a little less sensitive. They obviously didn't mean it the way you saw it.

[amysmom]

I am fairly new here but not new to forums. My homebase, a forum for the missing, discourages speculation and promotes posting only facts. I deleted the post immediately after I thought about it and the possibility it could be a common name. I am sorry it caused confusion and added to speculation.

need more coffee- going back to my corner to lurk.

There have been many similar posts (right or wrong) so NO need to stay in corner lurking! Come on out K? :blowkiss:

[Jersey*Girl]

My theory is it was one of the animal techs who had become infatuated with her, finally approached her and it went very badly, with him killing her in a desperate attempt to keep her from alerting anyone else in the facility.

I am thinking he was in a desperate rush to conceal her body and wouldn't have been thinking about forensic evidence.

I may be proven wrong in the end, but I feel that's the best fit with the really minimal information I've found.

That's exactly what I think. The only problem is that I wonder how the perp thought he'd get away with it b/c I'm finding that Amistad really doesn't have a thousand animal techs. Each one supposedly has to pass clearance and only has access to certain areas. It's ridiculous how antsy we all get when waiting to find out who is named the suspect!

I read this morning, not sure if this is true, that Yale failed to do a full criminal background check on one of their employees. It's made me think of SeriouslySearching saying she wouldn't doubt if the perp had a prior history. I was thinking no way b/c they have to pass clearance in order to have access to a high security area. Boy was I wrong, if this report is correct! & if so, wouldn't that hold Yale open to a plethora of lawsuits? I can't even begin to imagine...if so, the fallout could be catastrophic.

[Labrat]

Ok, I understand what you're saying now. Yes, you're right. I took the phrasing to mean "she was "just" doing "basic" research...in a somewhat less important role. Very sorry for the confusion.

On a different note, it was reported that she started volunteering for her local hospital while in high school, just to be involved with their pathology (or) pharmacology department. I think that's amazing. I guess I'm so stuck on this b/c I sure wish I would have finished what I started several years ago...which is the reason I'm going back in the Spring (starting in Spring to go all year long). Anyway, again - thank you.

Oh, yeah. People with that kind of interest and focus get involved very early.
Back when I was a lab manager part of what I did was work with the summer volunteers- very often they were high school students.

It's wonderful you are going back- Best of luck to you!

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212256187.shtml

According to the reports, an arrest is imminent as police close in on a lab technician, who apparently failed a lie detector test and was covered in unexplained scratches.
Annie Le was to marry a Columbia University graduate student Sunday in Long Island, N.Y.
The newspaper said that bloody clothes were found in a drop ceiling in the building housing the lab, where Le was doing a research project. Her cell phone, wallet and keys were found in her nearby office at Yale Medical School.

Breaks my heart, she was supposed marry on Sunday. How very devastating for all involved.This would explain the blood on the clothing if she scratched the hell out of him (I personally hope she scarred him for life with deep wounds). It would also mean the evidence against him would be clear cut since they would have the scrapings from underneath her fingernails to match to his DNA. As soon as they finish those tests, I expect an arrest.

Welcome to WS, PostDoc, OHDoc, RBarry and everyone who joined us last night~

[amysmom]

Originally Posted by milton99
it seems like she left this world doing what she loved to do. That can't be said for many, if not most people. RIP, Annie

bold by me

You are not alone in your POV cos I saw her own brother wrote this same exact thing on his web page last nite & he was also speaking for the family.

[Jersey*Girl]

Jersey Girl, I think you misunderstood me. I did not say she was not exceptional. From what I understood, she probably was brilliant. I am just explaining that there is different types of research. Hers was cutting edge, but not necessarily the type that most people would imagine. It would probably NOT lead to a cure.

I have a crying baby here and can not go into the detail I would like. I am just saying that her research was probably not the reason she was killed. Impossible? NO. Unlikely, yes.

Thank you so much. Yes, I did misunderstand...and posted just a few secs ago. Very sorry for the confusion. Please take care of the little baby and give him/her lots of kisses from all of us!
:blowkiss:

[SuziQ]

I don't know if that's statistical. This was years ago.We had pagers and were on call when a rape victim called police or went to the hospital. I had 3 small kids at the time and would look for lighter shifts.That what I was told.Rapists stay home with their families on holidays,generally speaking.
Point is,you just never know who could be involved.Like Toi,you could be living with them and not have a clue.

Boots on the ground statistics are usually the best. What you were told makes alot of sense to me.

[fhc]

Agreed - I don't know how/why the issue of the autoclave was brought up.

Not only is the autoclave accessible to anyone who has access to the lab animal facility itself (at least in our institution), but running it would take quite a bit of time (to generate the heat and pressure, exposure time, then depressurizing and cooling).

I think the autoclave has come up because the lab techs would use it and because it was identified as the source of the fire alarm just after noon on the day Annie was reported missing.

[Indianagirl]

No press conference today, no arrest imminent. Leaks are not helping investigation per FOX.

[OHdoc]

My theory is it was one of the animal techs who had become infatuated with her, finally approached her and it went very badly, with him killing her in a desperate attempt to keep her from alerting anyone else in the facility.

I am thinking he was in a desperate rush to conceal her body and wouldn't have been thinking about forensic evidence.

I may be proven wrong in the end, but I feel that's the best fit with the really minimal information I've found.

Agreed - this is the most feasible scenario given the available info.

[SeriouslySearching]

That's exactly what I think. The only problem is that I wonder how the perp thought he'd get away with it b/c I'm finding that Amistad really doesn't have a thousand animal techs. Each one supposedly has to pass clearance and only has access to certain areas. It's ridiculous how antsy we all get when waiting to find out who is named the suspect!

I read this morning, not sure if this is true, that Yale failed to do a full criminal background check on one of their employees. It's made me think of SeriouslySearching saying she wouldn't doubt if the perp had a prior history. I was thinking no way b/c they have to pass clearance in order to have access to a high security area. Boy was I wrong, if this report is correct! & if so, wouldn't that hold Yale open to a plethora of lawsuits? I can't even begin to imagine...if so, the fallout could be catastrophic.I can't take credit for saying anything about the criminal background of the perp on this one. I don't recall who brought it up, but it is an excellent observation if it is true. Yes, it should lead to lawsuits in this case. If they failed to do basic background checks on people allowed access to sensitive material and to the students/staff working in the environment...they should be held accountable, imo.

[Labrat]

That's exactly what I think. The only problem is that I wonder how the perp thought he'd get away with it b/c I'm finding that Amistad really doesn't have a thousand animal techs. Each one supposedly has to pass clearance and only has access to certain areas. It's ridiculous how antsy we all get when waiting to find out who is named the suspect!

I read this morning, not sure if this is true, that Yale failed to do a full criminal background check on one of their employees. It's made me think of SeriouslySearching saying she wouldn't doubt if the perp had a prior history. I was thinking no way b/c they have to pass clearance in order to have access to a high security area. Boy was I wrong, if this report is correct! & if so, wouldn't that hold Yale open to a plethora of lawsuits? I can't even begin to imagine...if so, the fallout could be catastrophic.

I don't think he was necessarily thinking at all- just reacting.
I don't know how large the Amistad facility is, but mine has about 10 animal techs and it's on the smaller side.

I don't think my university does criminal checks. I could be wrong, but I've never heard about it. I don't think they even drug test applicants for the animal tech positions.

[Angel Who Cares]

Police Hone In On Suspect In Yale Case
Suspect Is Lab Worker, Police Say
POSTED: 9:16 am EDT September 15, 2009
UPDATED: 9:31 am EDT September 15, 2009
<snipped>
Police said the suspect is a Yale employee and works in the lab where the remains of Le were found stuffed behind a wall.

The suspect failed a lie detector test and has wounds that suggest a recent struggle. Police said Tuesday that no arrests had been made in the case.

Le's remains were found in a basement lab of a Yale building on Amistad Street on Sunday, her would-be wedding day. The remains were positively identified as Le during an autopsy on Monday. The medical examiner said the manner in which Le died was expected to be released after 3 p.m. Tuesday.

On Saturday, bloodied clothing was found hidden in a drop ceiling in another part of the building. Police said they were testing to determine whether the clothing belongs to Le or someone else.

The building at 10 Amistad St. building was closed on Sunday and remained closed on Tuesday, but the road itself had opened to traffic.

SLIDESHOW: Remains In Yale Wall ID'd As Annie Le
http://www.wfsb.com/slideshow/slideshows/20838206/detail.html

Video: Interviews Conducted In Yale Killing
http://www.wfsb.com/video/20911937/index.html

Video: Vigil To Be Held For Le
http://www.wfsb.com/video/20912780/index.html

Article:
http://www.wfsb.com/news/20921664/detail.html

:angel:

[esqgerl]

"In his address to the medical school community Monday afternoon, Levin explained that the material of the wall behind which Le’s body was hidden made it difficult for dogs or humans to locate her.

“It was only after a number of days that the scent became detectable,” he said."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/15/killer-likely-works-lab/

And a letter to the governor from the Jovins

http://www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-jovin-rell-letter-pdf-html,0,855848.htmlpage

[Jersey*Girl]

I can't take credit for saying anything about the criminal background of the perp on this one. I don't recall who brought it up, but it is an excellent observation if it is true. Yes, it should lead to lawsuits in this case. If they failed to do basic background checks on people allowed access to sensitive material and to the students/staff working in the environment...they should be held accountable, imo.

Oh wow, I thought it was you, SS, that said it first. My apologies to whomever it was. Please don't make me go through all the posts from the beginning...:)

[Gene]

Just to shine a bit of light on the subject, this is a good description of the type of research that Annie was likely doing...it is from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_research

Basic research or fundamental research (sometimes pure research) is research carried out to increase understanding of fundamental principles. Many times the end results have no direct or immediate commercial benefits: basic research can be thought of as arising out of curiosity. However, in the long term it is the basis for many commercial products and applied research. Basic research is mainly carried out by universities.

I am NOT putting down basic scientists. I was a basic scientist. Outside of my own lab, few people in the entire university really understood or cared about what I was doing. There were about 5-10 labs in the world doing similar stuff and they could be quite competitive, because everyone wanted to be the first to publish a topic. But the nearest "competitor" was probably about 1000 miles away. We almost never saw each other, except at annual meetings.

Basic research is generally not the type of stuff people are killed for.

[Angel Who Cares]

NHPD: Arrest in Yale case NOT imminent
Autopsy results to be released at 3pm
Updated: Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 11:04 AM EDT
Published : Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 5:37 AM EDT
<snipped>
New Haven police said today that an arrest was not imminent in the murder case of a Yale graduate student.

Earlier reports indicated that police were close to making an arrest in the death of 24-year old Annie Le.

The New Haven Register , citing police sources, reports a lab technician who works inside 10 Amistad St. is the focus of the investigation.

New Haven Police Officer Joe Avery issued a brief statement late Monday morning and said no suspects were in custody and he could not confirm or deny that they had a person of interest.

The Yale Daily News reports University President Richard Levin met with members of the medical school community, and said people who had access to the basement where Le's body was found are being monitored.

"The people in the basement aren’t going to cause any trouble until the matter is resolved," Levin said.

The Office of the State Medical Examiner confirmed the identity of Le after an autopsy Monday, and ruled her death a homicide. The cause of death was not initially disclosed, though police say they will be releasing that information at 3pm.

Article:
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_haven_cty/news_wtnh_new_haven_police_suspect_lab_worker_2009 09150653

[Labrat]

Agreed - I don't know how/why the issue of the autoclave was brought up.

Not only is the autoclave accessible to anyone who has access to the lab animal facility itself (at least in our institution), but running it would take quite a bit of time (to generate the heat and pressure, exposure time, then depressurizing and cooling).

I originally brought it up as a possible source of the steam that triggered the fire alarm. It had been reported that steam from a piece of laboratory equipment had triggered the fire alarm that afternoon.

I soon regretted mentioning it as the speculation very quickly headed in a direction I had not foreseen nor meant to imply.

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't think he was necessarily thinking at all- just reacting.
I don't know how large the Amistad facility is, but mine has about 10 animal techs and it's on the smaller side.

I don't think my university does criminal checks. I could be wrong, but I've never heard about it. I don't think they even drug test applicants for the animal tech positions.

The Amistad building is 120K sq ft not including the parking garage, which is attached to it. ALL occupants of the building have to have access cards, no matter who they are, and employees have to pass checks b/c of the sensitive nature/material housed at Amistad. Again, I found this last night. I believe it was in an online html or pdf file from just before the opening of the building...maybe the ribbon cutting ceremony? The department heads were there, which are 3, with lead investigators appointed underneath them.

[Toi]

OMG - what a horrible story!!! How did you get through it all? Did the stalkee know she was in danger? Were there any clues when you looked back at your life with him that he was capable of this? And how did you learn to trust again? What signs should someone look for to see if their significant other is capable of such murderous acts?

I apologize for all the questions. I have never heard a tale like yours before and it seems so tied to what happened to poor Annie Le.


The woman never knew of his intentions. He would get depressed around Aug. every year like clockwork. So when he started feeling blue it was no surprise to me until he never came back home. He was diagnosed with OCD, Bi Polar, and a few others throughout his life until he met the Dr that properly diagnosed him with PS. He always bit his nails to the extreme. Ya know how some people just gnaw at their nails? He did but he would bite the skin off to. I thought that it was due to the skin getting dried out and chaffing or callusing up so to speak. So I just thought it was part of his OCD. The Dr told me that he was biting off his fingerprints and trying to alter them so he wouldn't get caught. I still don't trust anyone I don't think. I try really hard to overcome my trust issues but its very hard. He will always be in my life b/c I have 2 AWESOME kiddos with him. It is beyond hard to explain to them why I divorced their dad. At this point they ask why I broke up our family. I just wanna scream it out loud sometimes but I can't fathom what that would do to them to hear that. So I carry the burden and probably always will. I watch them like a hawk for signs of PS or anything else that he may have passed on to them. His mother said that he was very much a loner as a kid but she just thought he was shy. He does take a cocktail of medication on a daily basis. He said he would never stop or he would act on his fantasies. I wish he did talk to the TV or imaginary people then I think I could have handled it. But when you find out that your best friend, the person you trust most in the world wants to be Ted Bundy I think it's time to reevaluate the relationship ya know.The Dr said he had a certain type of PS that serial killers and killers in general have. I looked like that chick from the Linda Blair Project with tears and snot pouring off my chin screaming at this poor Dr telling him over and over "You don't know him I do he's my best friend I sleep next to him every night you don't." Before I was told why exactly he had been committed I had talked to some attorneys and a judge that said this Dr couldn't hold my husband unless he was a threat to society. Of course I was screaming this at the Dr as well that I was gonna sue and cussing him so badly. After a while of this going on the Dr stood up and put his finger at the tip of my nose and screamed Lady you don't know who you sleep next to every night! Then he proceeded to tell me the details and asked my hubby to tell about how he was going to kill some poor woman that he had been stalking. I stopped crying and started gasping for air and fell in the seat behind me. It was like someone ran over me with an 18 wheeler truck. The first question I asked was "Is he gonna hurt my children or me?" The Dr said not likely b/c they look at people in a "robotic" way. He said that generally family members are the last ones to get hurt from these types. But anyone on the "outside" of our family circle would be in grave danger of him.

[Angel Who Cares]

Yale Murder Analyzed
Yale Murder Analyzed - CBS News Video

Yale 'Unnerved' By Murder
Yale 'Unnerved' By Murder - CBS News Video

:angel:

[Labrat]

Just to shine a bit of light on the subject, this is a good description of the type of research that Annie was likely doing...it is from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_research

Basic research or fundamental research (sometimes pure research) is research carried out to increase understanding of fundamental principles. Many times the end results have no direct or immediate commercial benefits: basic research can be thought of as arising out of curiosity. However, in the long term it is the basis for many commercial products and applied research. Basic research is mainly carried out by universities.

I am NOT putting down basic scientists. I was a basic scientist. Outside of my own lab, few people in the entire university really understood or cared about what I was doing. There were about 5-10 labs in the world doing similar stuff and they could be quite competitive, because everyone wanted to be the first to publish a topic. But the nearest "competitor" was probably about 1000 miles away. We almost never saw each other, except at annual meetings.

Basic research is generally not the type of stuff people are killed for.

That's an excellent explanation. It's not that basic research is less important- it's actually the foundation that all the rest is built on, it's just that it is far less likely to get any media attention than the CURE!! story. Actually I've noticed that basic research is more likely to be mocked by the media- all those "your tax dollars are going to fund this!" stories. That's because they just don't get it.

Have I mentioned I am not a fan of the media? LOL.:)

[OHdoc]

As much fun as this is, I've gotta get back to some science. Catch you all later.

[fhc]

Angel that Cares, the wfsb link to the article you provided updated at 11:11. It says no arrest expected tuesday, did it say that before update?

[Jersey*Girl]

Not sure if this has been posted, or even if it's needed, but thought I'd supply it:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/spedtial/medschoolmap_png_900x2000_q85.jpg

[PrayersForMaura]

what a beautiful young woman, so full of life, promise, and more.
What a senseless way to die.

I pray for her family, fiance and friends. May she rest in peace when justice is served.

[KR2tonenow]

RE: Candlelight Vigil
And more than likely the POS was at this vigil....1,000 people grieving the loss of a bright brilliant light, and darkness lurking beneath the surface at Yale still listing a suspect not known.

[jnTexas]

The woman never knew of his intentions. He would get depressed around Aug. every year like clockwork. So when he started feeling blue it was no surprise to me until he never came back home. He was diagnosed with OCD, Bi Polar, and a few others throughout his life until he met the Dr that properly diagnosed him with PS. He always bit his nails to the extreme. Ya know how some people just gnaw at their nails? He did but he would bite the skin off to. I thought that it was due to the skin getting dried out and chaffing or callusing up so to speak. So I just thought it was part of his OCD. The Dr told me that he was biting off his fingerprints and trying to alter them so he wouldn't get caught. I still don't trust anyone I don't think. I try really hard to overcome my trust issues but its very hard. He will always be in my life b/c I have 2 AWESOME kiddos with him. It is beyond hard to explain to them why I divorced their dad. At this point they ask why I broke up our family. I just wanna scream it out loud sometimes but I can't fathom what that would do to them to hear that. So I carry the burden and probably always will. I watch them like a hawk for signs of PS or anything else that he may have passed on to them. His mother said that he was very much a loner as a kid but she just thought he was shy. He does take a cocktail of medication on a daily basis. He said he would never stop or he would act on his fantasies. I wish he did talk to the TV or imaginary people then I think I could have handled it. But when you find out that your best friend, the person you trust most in the world wants to be Ted Bundy I think it's time to reevaluate the relationship ya know.The Dr said he had a certain type of PS that serial killers and killers in general have. I looked like that chick from the Linda Blair Project with tears and snot pouring off my chin screaming at this poor Dr telling him over and over "You don't know him I do he's my best friend I sleep next to him every night you don't." Before I was told why exactly he had been committed I had talked to some attorneys and a judge that said this Dr couldn't hold my husband unless he was a threat to society. Of course I was screaming this at the Dr as well that I was gonna sue and cussing him so badly. After a while of this going on the Dr stood up and put his finger at the tip of my nose and screamed Lady you don't know who you sleep next to every night! Then he proceeded to tell me the details and asked my hubby to tell about how he was going to kill some poor woman that he had been stalking. I stopped crying and started gasping for air and fell in the seat behind me. It was like someone ran over me with an 18 wheeler truck. The first question I asked was "Is he gonna hurt my children or me?" The Dr said not likely b/c they look at people in a "robotic" way. He said that generally family members are the last ones to get hurt from these types. But anyone on the "outside" of our family circle would be in grave danger of him.

I want to thank you for your post. I have stories of this happening. it is absolutely amazing to hear the details from someone who went through it.

[Labrat]

The Amistad building is 120K sq ft not including the parking garage, which is attached to it. ALL occupants of the building have to have access cards, no matter who they are, and employees have to pass checks b/c of the sensitive nature/material housed at Amistad. Again, I found this last night. I believe it was in an online html or pdf file from just before the opening of the building...maybe the ribbon cutting ceremony? The department heads were there, which are 3, with lead investigators appointed underneath them.

The animal facility in the basement of Amistad and the "Amistad building" referenced in that article are two different entities. People working solely in the animal facility would most likely be subject to whatever screening the animal care department and the university as a whole does. They are not employees of the programs located upstairs in that building.

You are confusing Departments and Buildings, I think. Here is an example-my Department has facilities in 5 separate buildings. I travel to all of them as part of my work and have my own space in 3 of them. I have no idea what other labs or departments are located in those buildings unless I am specifically working with them, and even then I am not subject to their hiring/screening practices. I was hired by my Department and am subject only to their rules and regulations.

One of my buildings is relatively new and opened with the same sort of hype. I'm still over there twice a week with no security check.

[tksa]

That's an excellent explanation. It's not that basic research is less important- it's actually the foundation that all the rest is built on, it's just that it is far less likely to get any media attention than the CURE!! story. Actually I've noticed that basic research is more likely to be mocked by the media- all those "your tax dollars are going to fund this!" stories. That's because they just don't get it.

Have I mentioned I am not a fan of the media? LOL.:)

Yes, can you imagine the reaction from politicians and the media if scientists in the past had gotten research grants today? Of Fleming: "Millions of your tax dollars are being wasted studying MOLDY STUFF!!" Of Mendel: "Millions of your tax dollars for sickly, ugly looking PEA GARDEN!!" Of Darwin: "Millions of your tax dollars spent for ANIMAL-WATCHING JUNKETS!!" Of Goddard: "Lunatic thinks we can actually reach the MOON!!"

Oh wait, the last one was real (http://astronauticsnow.com/history/goddard/index.html).

[Labrat]

Yes, can you imagine the reaction from politicians and the media if scientists in the past had gotten research grants today? Of Fleming: "Millions of your tax dollars are being wasted studying MOLDY STUFF!!" Of Mendel: "Millions of your tax dollars for sickly, ugly looking PEA GARDEN!!" Of Darwin: "Millions of your tax dollars spent for ANIMAL-WATCHING JUNKETS!!" Of Goddard: "Lunatic thinks we can actually reach the MOON!!"

Oh wait, the last one was real (http://astronauticsnow.com/history/goddard/index.html).

This made me laugh the hardest I have in days. It's so true!

[JerzWhim]

I want to thank you for your post. I have stories of this happening. it is absolutely amazing to hear the details from someone who went through it.

Yes. Thank you very much for opening up. I am truly sorry for what must have been one of the most devastating things a spouse or anyone really could have to endure.

You seem to have survived pretty much intact if much wiser for the experience.

I'm curious as to how your ex-husband knew this woman? Did you even know her? Does he still harbor an attachment to her?

Your story has an interesting aspect. How many woman (or men) have murderous stalkers and are unaware of it like the woman in your story? And more so, how many of these stalkers, like your husband, are stopped in the nick of time?

Were I the one being stalked and not knowing I had a stalker following me, I would want to know it if the authorities knew. I shudder to think about an instance where the stalker is released from jail/mental facility, was off his meds, etc. and then decided to finish the job... and there you are, not knowing you were ever in danger and could be in danger again.

[Nana46]

First time on this particular forum...good work folks.....can anyone tell me what "inside a wall" meant? Trying to figure out what this means...TIA

[Angel Who Cares]

Details of Yale student Annie Le's murder to be revealed Tuesday as police close in on arrest
Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 9:55 AM
<snipped>
New Haven police want to throw the cuffs on a lab technician who they believe killed the Yale graduate student by 1 p.m., said police spokesman Joe Avery.

The tech, who the New Haven Register reports is involved in animal testing in Le's lab, failed lie detector tests and has scratches on his chest that suggest he was involved in a struggle.

Cops and FBI agents have interviewed the suspect several times until he stopped answering questions and asked for a lawyer, the Register said.

Le's body was found stuffed in a wall Sunday - her planned wedding day. The medical examiner has held off announcing the cause of death, citing the ongoing murder probe.

Cops "hope" an arrest is imminent in the Annie Le's murder investigation, they said Tuesday morning - as medical examiners prepare to disclose how she was killed.

New Haven police want to throw the cuffs on a lab technician who they believe killed the Yale graduate student by 1 p.m., said police spokesman Joe Avery.

The tech, who the New Haven Register reports is involved in animal testing in Le's lab, failed lie detector tests and has scratches on his chest that suggest he was involved in a struggle.

Cops and FBI agents have interviewed the suspect several times until he stopped answering questions and asked for a lawyer, the Register said.

Le's body was found stuffed in a wall Sunday - her planned wedding day. The medical examiner has held off announcing the cause of death, citing the ongoing murder probe.


New Haven Police guard the police line at the scene where the body of the missing Yale grad student Annie Marie Le, 24, was found stuffed into the basement wall.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/09/16/alg_annie-le_police-scene.jpg

Article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_cops_set_to_reveal_yale_student_annie_le_cause_ of_death_hope_to_make_arrest_tues.html

:angel:

[Labrat]

First time on this particular forum...good work folks.....can anyone tell me what "inside a wall" meant? Trying to figure out what this means...TIA

In a "chase" that contains pipes, electrical wiring, etc. for the building. There are links to descriptions, diagrams and photos back in this thread- I don't have time to go back and find it now.

[anniee]

hmmmmmmmmmm! Yale took all this info off their site the other day (to protect students) so where was it found? TIA!

Someone posted it here earlier, maybe on thread #3?

[Labrat]

hmmmmmmmmmm! Yale took all this info off their site the other day (to protect students) so where was it found? TIA!

It's cached. Nothing on the internet ever truly disappears.

[KR2tonenow]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lab tech a student???

[Jersey*Girl]

The animal facility in the basement of Amistad and the "Amistad building" referenced in that article are two different entities. People working solely in the animal facility would most likely be subject to whatever screening the animal care department and the university as a whole does. They are not employees of the programs located upstairs in that building.

You are confusing Departments and Buildings, I think. Here is an example-my Department has facilities in 5 separate buildings. I travel to all of them as part of my work and have my own space in 3 of them. I have no idea what other labs or departments are located in those buildings unless I am specifically working with them, and even then I am not subject to their hiring/screening practices. I was hired by my Department and am subject only to their rules and regulations.

One of my buildings is relatively new and opened with the same sort of hype. I'm still over there twice a week with no security check.

But that's what I'm finding. From what's online, the Amistad Building is the only research facility of it's kind in America, and within the top 3 in the world, possibly the best in the world. It was set up so that each department would interact with each other, making it easier for the occupants by supplying everything they need in that building, including handlers. This is what is so confusing b/c alot of your experience where you work differs than how it's handled (or how it's set up) at Amistad Street. From what I'm finding out, the smaller rodents are "housed" right there. When I spoke of the departments, it's listed as I found it online from I believe the president of Yale. I see that there's a veterinary clinic at a different location on campus, so that threw me off. But, and this is a big but, the other stuff is to the book with what I keep finding. I know that the animal techs (that I was also considering lab techs, very sorry if I offended anyone) are not part of these research teams. I know they are hired as staff by the university. But, this is where it seems to get confusing, they do have staff that remains at Amistad, animal tech staff that is. I was thinking that each of the 3 departments takes up a certain amount of space, and each would have their own space amoung the animals for experiments. Or am I wrong in thinking that? This is where I'm getting that the perp could be narrowed down, b/c each area of research has their own designated space. Or am I confused all over again.

I have to say, this is the most animated I've been in months! All of you scientists here, I simply cannot thank you enough for every single one of your contributions. While forensics & the intricate nature of pathology concerns me, this dialogue is most interesting! Thank you all so very much for joining Websleuths!

[Labrat]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lab tech a student???

No. A lab tech is not usually a student.

[jodierenee]

not necessarily.

[Angel Who Cares]

UPDATED: Police: Arrest In Yale Case Unlikely Tuesday
Cause Of Death Expected To Be Released
POSTED: 9:16 am EDT September 15, 2009
UPDATED: 11:11 am EDT September 15, 2009
<snipped>
Police said an arrest is not likely to be made Tuesday in connection with the death of Yale University graduate student Annie Le.

Police sources said detectives have honed in on a suspect in the killing of Le, but that more interviews needed to be conducted.

Sources said the suspect is a Yale employee and works in the lab where the remains of Le were found stuffed behind a wall.

The suspect failed a lie detector test and has wounds that suggest a recent struggle, according to sources.

Le's remains were found in a basement lab of a Yale building on Amistad Street on Sunday, her would-be wedding day. The remains were positively identified as Le during an autopsy on Monday. The medical examiner said the manner in which Le died was expected to be released after 3 p.m. Tuesday.

Video: Police Narrow In On Suspect In Yale Killing
http://www.wfsb.com/video/20921996/index.html

Article:
http://www.wfsb.com/news/20921664/detail.html

:angel:

[~greeneyedgirl~]

The woman never knew of his intentions. He would get depressed around Aug. every year like clockwork. So when he started feeling blue it was no surprise to me until he never came back home. He was diagnosed with OCD, Bi Polar, and a few others throughout his life until he met the Dr that properly diagnosed him with PS. He always bit his nails to the extreme. Ya know how some people just gnaw at their nails? He did but he would bite the skin off to. I thought that it was due to the skin getting dried out and chaffing or callusing up so to speak. So I just thought it was part of his OCD. The Dr told me that he was biting off his fingerprints and trying to alter them so he wouldn't get caught. I still don't trust anyone I don't think. I try really hard to overcome my trust issues but its very hard. He will always be in my life b/c I have 2 AWESOME kiddos with him. It is beyond hard to explain to them why I divorced their dad. At this point they ask why I broke up our family. I just wanna scream it out loud sometimes but I can't fathom what that would do to them to hear that. So I carry the burden and probably always will. I watch them like a hawk for signs of PS or anything else that he may have passed on to them. His mother said that he was very much a loner as a kid but she just thought he was shy. He does take a cocktail of medication on a daily basis. He said he would never stop or he would act on his fantasies. I wish he did talk to the TV or imaginary people then I think I could have handled it. But when you find out that your best friend, the person you trust most in the world wants to be Ted Bundy I think it's time to reevaluate the relationship ya know.The Dr said he had a certain type of PS that serial killers and killers in general have. I looked like that chick from the Linda Blair Project with tears and snot pouring off my chin screaming at this poor Dr telling him over and over "You don't know him I do he's my best friend I sleep next to him every night you don't." Before I was told why exactly he had been committed I had talked to some attorneys and a judge that said this Dr couldn't hold my husband unless he was a threat to society. Of course I was screaming this at the Dr as well that I was gonna sue and cussing him so badly. After a while of this going on the Dr stood up and put his finger at the tip of my nose and screamed Lady you don't know who you sleep next to every night! Then he proceeded to tell me the details and asked my hubby to tell about how he was going to kill some poor woman that he had been stalking. I stopped crying and started gasping for air and fell in the seat behind me. It was like someone ran over me with an 18 wheeler truck. The first question I asked was "Is he gonna hurt my children or me?" The Dr said not likely b/c they look at people in a "robotic" way. He said that generally family members are the last ones to get hurt from these types. But anyone on the "outside" of our family circle would be in grave danger of him.

Wow, you are an amazingly strong woman.... :clap: :clap:

[Jersey*Girl]

No. A lab tech is not usually a student.

I'm basing this off of my local state college. They have several lab techs on their payroll, but they are also students. Do you think it could depend on the college or university and their level of higher education?

[sarahhod]

NEW HAVEN, CT - The New Haven coroner is expected to release autopsy results in the death of Yale University graduate student Annie Le at 12 p.m. ET.

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66930&catid=2

Sorry if already posted.

[postdoc]

Thanks for the welcome, and apologies for the autoclave reference! Like Labrat, they have always been a little scary to me! I think a couple of news agencies reported the finding of "human remains", which sent my already-active imagination into overdrive. I do sincerely hope that I am way off-base on this one. This whole story strikes too close to home - and I am not even at Yale.

Regarding "opportunity" in this case: The suites in our facility are not too large, and have doors with small windows in them. It is possible for one person to work alone and be completely undisturbed. The lab/animal techs may come in and out, but if there was one tech assigned to a particular set of suites, and that tech may have been aware that Annie was the only person *supposed* to be working in that suite.

Even if the crime was not premeditated, I can easily believe that the tech could have assaulted her without raising the attention of other staff (based on the layout of our facility). In this scenario, the body could be left in the suite (possibly behind a rack of cages). Triggering the fire alarm would have provide ample time to clear the facility of staff and permit the tech to hide the body.

As the media have speculated, I imagine the police have a prime suspect and plenty of circumstantial evidence. I'm guessing that they are waiting for bullet-proof forensic evidence, either from the bloodied clothes, or from the body itself. I do hope they can build a strong case.

[Gene]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lab tech a student???


NO! I posted a long detailed description about the difference between a grad student and a lab tech about two pages back. A student does not earn a salary, a lab tech does...

Sorry for saying this, but it would be helpful for people to read a bit before posting.

[KR2tonenow]

Yale employee got it.

[waltzingmatilda]

Bumping up Labrat's explanation of using Rodent services and Labs.

They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.

[babycat]

I saw a pic of LZ with a woman (if it's the same pic you saw) and they are sitting at a bar. If that's what you are talking about, that is not Annie. If you have another pic in mind can you please share?


ETA: Are you talking about this picture? http://www.yale.edu/denglab/pictures/labnews/suhua/lei_hyejin.jpg


Not only is it not Annie, I think that the "LZ" is the female. People are assuming LZ is a male name.

I don't think that has anything to do with anything. I don't know how the name came up in the first place? I checked it out, all the same...(as we are wont to do here;) ) I saw the same picture on another forum, and I don't think it means anything at all.

[Jersey*Girl]

LabRat & Gene, I deleted my answer. I don't want to mislead anyone. I based my answer off of my local college, not a major university...which maybe could make a difference.

[Track292008]

I have read several references to the auatopsy results being released at 3 p.m. EDT, not noon). I think the news folks in Sacramento have it wrong -- the 3-hour time difference and all that.

Also I want to take the opportunity to thank Labrat for her contributions to this board!

[Gene]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lab tech a student???


Sorry KR2, I see it is your first post and I do not want to discourage you. But sometimes, the same questions are asked and answered several times in the same thread. Here is my post answering your question:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #5 FOUND DECEASED

Lab tech and student were confused several times here and I thought it would be helpful to explain it...and I took some time to make the difference clear. I do hope it is clear now and I hope you post some more....

[babycat]

I am fairly new here but not new to forums. My homebase, a forum for the missing, discourages speculation and promotes posting only facts. I deleted the post immediately after I thought about it and the possibility it could be a common name. I am sorry it caused confusion and added to speculation.

need more coffee- going back to my corner to lurk.

No need to lurk, no one here means any harm. I think we all checked it out, all the same...we are google machines here, so if someone throws out ANY name we usually google it. I think we're all guilty of it:)

[Beyond Belief]

I am finding more than one person with huge credentials on the net for this name LZ. Please be careful. Lets be fair. LE knows what they are doing.

[Toi]

Yes. Thank you very much for opening up. I am truly sorry for what must have been one of the most devastating things a spouse or anyone really could have to endure.

You seem to have survived pretty much intact if much wiser for the experience.

I'm curious as to how your ex-husband knew this woman? Did you even know her? Does he still harbor an attachment to her?

Your story has an interesting aspect. How many woman (or men) have murderous stalkers and are unaware of it like the woman in your story? And more so, how many of these stalkers, like your husband, are stopped in the nick of time?

Were I the one being stalked and not knowing I had a stalker following me, I would want to know it if the authorities knew. I shudder to think about an instance where the stalker is released from jail/mental facility, was off his meds, etc. and then decided to finish the job... and there you are, not knowing you were ever in danger and could be in danger again.


I don't know who she was. The Dr nor my ex would tell me. I said the exact same thing to the Dr that she should know. If I were wearing her shoes I would want to know just like you said. We should have that right as victims or would be victims. I think I had it pieced together that is was a woman that worked at a gas station on his way to work. I went OVER and OVER and OVER his normal routines to try and figure it out. The only person I came up with, thru my own detective work, was an older (50ish) sweet lady at the gas station. It could very well have been someone that he worked with at the plant tho. I will never know and hate that. I don't know if he still harbors an attachment for her. We only talk when necessary and my skin crawls every time. I can say the other thing that always stood out to me is that in 8 yrs he never hollered at me, not once. I did a lot of hollering tho lol. I just always thought I was the unstable one b/c he could ALWAYS keep his cool and I would get upset about stuff. I would NEVER trust anyone that doesn't have some sort of temper as crazy as that sounds.

Kinda like KC, although she was explosive at home, others saw her as super sweet, funny, energetic, very outgoing, life of the party. I don't think she is PS by any means. I think she has borderline personality disorder or something along those lines. He's very likable like her.

This guy the tech may have had an obsession that she never had a clue about. At least not to the extreme he did. Another possibility is that he was obsessed with someone else in the lab and he saw her as a threat to that relationship as an interference/competitive way with this person. I dunno.

[face100]

I am finding more than one person with huge credentials on the net for this name LZ. Please be careful. Lets be fair. LE knows what they are doing.

You're right , I tried ''google images search'''. There are many LZ's and LZ can be both male or female

[Gene]

Seems like this reporter knows the name of the suspect and apparently he has no criminal record. If it is right he must be about 24 or 25 years old...

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/city_yale_learn.php

(The suspect retained a lawyer. He’s no longer working at Yale. The state’s judicial website shows only one previous case involving the suspect, who was born in 1985; he was nabbed for “traveling unreasonably fast.”)

[Labrat]

But that's what I'm finding. From what's online, the Amistad Building is the only research facility of it's kind in America, and within the top 3 in the world, possibly the best in the world. It was set up so that each department would interact with each other, making it easier for the occupants by supplying everything they need in that building, including handlers."Handlers supplied and supervised by the pre-existing Animal Care Department This is what is so confusing b/c alot of your experience where you work differs than how it's handled (or how it's set up) at Amistad Street. Not at all- exactly the same from what I'm seeing From what I'm finding out, the smaller rodents are "housed" right there. They've made it easy for them by giving them animal space in their own building, so they don't have to travel the way Annie did. When I spoke of the departments, it's listed as I found it online from I believe the president of Yale. I see that there's a veterinary clinic at a different location on campus, Yes, because the Animal Care Department is staffed by veterinarians who travel to all the animal facilities, including the one in Amistad, which is part of the Animal Care Department. so that threw me off. But, and this is a big but, the other stuff is to the book with what I keep finding. I know that the animal techs (that I was also considering lab techs, very sorry if I offended anyone) are not part of these research teams. I know they are hired as staff by the university. More specifically, by the Animal Care Department But, this is where it seems to get confusing, they do have staff that remains at Amistad, animal tech staff that is. Yes, employees of the Animal Care Department inside the animal facility in Amistad run by the Animal Care Department I was thinking that each of the 3 departments takes up a certain amount of space, and each would have their own space amoung the animals for experiments. Yes, they would, in the facility under the care and management of the Animal Care Department. Or am I wrong in thinking that? This is where I'm getting that the perp could be narrowed down,Not really, because the animal techs might be assigned to one specific animal room, but would most likely have access to all rooms inside the facility they are assigned to. b/c each area of research has their own designated space. Yes, inside the animal facility run by and staffed by the Animal Care Department Or am I confused all over again.


I have to say, this is the most animated I've been in months! All of you scientists here, I simply cannot thank you enough for every single one of your contributions. While forensics & the intricate nature of pathology concerns me, this dialogue is most interesting! Thank you all so very much for joining Websleuths!

I don't care what they've written in a press release. No one is so special that their animal use will escape the oversight of the Animal Care Department.
Animal use is very, very regulated. There are Federal and State laws and regulations that must be followed. Animal Care Departments are set up to do this. There are research protocols that must be followed, every single lab must have an approved protocol if they are using animals. Violate your protocol badly and your research can be halted. If there are enough violations at an institution all animal research can be halted until the violations are corrected. The USDA, the NIH, and the IACUC are not impressed that your press release says you are the best in the world, even if it is true!

If you go back and look at the Animal Care Dept's info page you will find Amistad listed under one of their supervisors.

[scubagirl]

Seems like this reporter knows the name of the suspect and apparently he has no criminal record. If it is right he must be about 24 or 25 years old...

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/city_yale_learn.php

(The suspect retained a lawyer. He’s no longer working at Yale. The state’s judicial website shows only one previous case involving the suspect, who was born in 1985; he was nabbed for “traveling unreasonably fast.”)

Well then this should help us figure out who it is - all we have to do is take the different lab tech names and put them in the state's judicial website to see which has that info.

[Paulette]

LE are interested in an "animal lab technician". He certainly wouldn't be listed anywhere on any web page concerning the Anton Bennett lab. He's probably just an hourly employee. He's only known to his immediate supervisor & the accounting dept. BTW, where was his supervisor?

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't care what they've written in a press release. No one is so special that their animal use will escape the oversight of the Animal Care Department.
Animal use is very, very regulated. There are Federal and State laws and regulations that must be followed. Animal Care Departments are set up to do this. There are research protocols that must be followed, every single lab must have an approved protocol if they are using animals. Violate your protocol badly and your research can be halted. If there are enough violations at an institution all animal research can be halted until the violations are corrected. The USDA, the NIH, and the IACUC are not impressed that your press release says you are the best in the world, even if it is true!

If you go back and look at the Animal Care Dept's info page you will find Amistad listed under one of their supervisors.

Bold by me...I already did that. That's when I found somebody that works under him. Only by a fluke and not even sure I can prove it...dare I say yet:)

I love you for all of your answers! Thank you so much. Know what I think? I think Yale blows smoke so real people get a false sense of security and entitlement...that's what the heck I think. No, I'm not trying to run them in the ground but everything they've supplied in online interviews and newspaper clippings says opposite what you're informing. You work in this type of field, so you would know. This is the crap that burns me up b/c people pay so much flipping money to attend their university! They shouldn't lie then...the admins at Yale, that is!

[gxm]

IMO, the stalker personality will often see simple courtesy as something much more. I recall a woman who was kidnapped by a man she worked with. He was a bit odd and most folks shunned him, but this woman was very kind hearted and would smile and say hello to him. He perceived her kindness as mutual interest. Luckily, he did not kill her but still what a terrible ordeal she endured.

I'm not a psychologist so this is pure speculation. But I think Annie, who has been described as vivacious and outgoing, probably picked up a stalker who completely distorted their casual relationship into something more. That's why he turned violent as her wedding day approached. So very tragic. I bet he thought she'd be an easy mark because she was so petite. I'm so glad she put up a good fight and left evidence of her valiant struggle behind so LE could catch her killer.

[Labrat]

I'm basing this off of my local state college. They have several lab techs on their payroll, but they are also students. Do you think it could depend on the college or university and their level of higher education?

Oh sure- many lab techs might be taking classes and so are technically a student, but their job title in the lab would still be technician. A "student" in a research lab would refer to a graduate student, like Annie.

There might be similarities in some of their work, but a technician generally is an employee of the lab- it's a job in and of itself. Many people are career technicians- they do not want to go on for a doctorate. Some technicians quit, go back to school and go to a new lab as a graduate student. Graduate students are working in the lab as part of the work towards their advanced degree.

Now whether LE or the media are aware of this difference is a whole 'nother story. Every place is a lab, every lab member a technician.......

[Jersey*Girl]

LabRat, slightly o/t...you have to still be teaching somewhat to have this much patience with me! :blowkiss:

[Labrat]

IMO, the stalker personality will often see simple courtesy as something much more. I recall a woman who was kidnapped by a man she worked with. He was a bit odd and most folks shunned him, but this woman was very kind hearted and would smile and say hello to him. He perceived her kindness as mutual interest. Luckily, he did not kill her but still what a terrible ordeal she endured.

I'm not a psychologist so this is pure speculation. But I think Annie, who has been described as vivacious and outgoing, probably picked up a stalker who completely distorted their casual relationship into something more. That's why he turned violent as her wedding day approached. So very tragic. I bet he thought she'd be an easy mark because she was so petite. I'm so glad she put up a good fight and left evidence of her valiant struggle behind so LE could catch her killer.

Oh yeah- my stalker latched on to me because he said hello as he passed me on the street and I said hello back. I was raised to be polite! Unfortunately that's all it took.

[scubagirl]

LE are interested in an "animal lab technician". He certainly wouldn't be listed anywhere on any web page concerning the Anton Bennett lab. He's probably just an hourly employee. He's only known to his immediate supervisor & the accounting dept. BTW, where was his supervisor?

Actually - such a web page exists (has not been posted here). And after putting in the various technicians - two males have birthdates in 1985 and one has a record with one incident where they were speeding (over 70mph).

[PrayersForMaura]

Seems like this reporter knows the name of the suspect and apparently he has no criminal record. If it is right he must be about 24 or 25 years old...

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/city_yale_learn.php

(The suspect retained a lawyer. He’s no longer working at Yale. The state’s judicial website shows only one previous case involving the suspect, who was born in 1985; he was nabbed for “traveling unreasonably fast.”)

I was wondering if the person would still be working at Yale or not ... by his own volition or being terminated due to suspicion around the case.

I often wonder how anyone who is under suspicion for murder -- guilty or not -- can walk around and feel safe and not feel paranoid.

[STEADFAST]

Actually - such a web page exists (has not been posted here). And after putting in the various technicians - two males have birthdates in 1985 and one has a record with one incident where they were speeding (over 70mph).

Link?

[Labrat]

LE are interested in an "animal lab technician". He certainly wouldn't be listed anywhere on any web page concerning the Anton Bennett lab. He's probably just an hourly employee. He's only known to his immediate supervisor & the accounting dept. BTW, where was his supervisor?

At a meeting or in his office doing paperwork. The supervisors just do not have the time to follow the techs around to see what they are doing- they will if a problem is reported to them, but not on an every day basis. They have a lot more responsibilities than just physically overseeing the techs.