View Full Version : Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #21
GetSmart
09-15-2009, 12:51 PM
Continued General Discussion About The Girls.
from RPS :
DD failed to appear for revocation hearing on 9/9. A revocation hearing is used to revoke a previously suspended sentence, because of a violation of some condition of probation.
Bench warrant issued for him on 9/11.
----------------------------------------------
Here is a link that should have info
Dustin Dailey didn't keep his court date and a bench warrant has been issued for his arrest.
http://www1.odcr.com/results.php#/results.php?Page=0
waltzingmatilda
09-16-2009, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the new thread Getsmart! Any word on the latest with DD's failure to appear?
TIA
wm
Thanks for the new thread Getsmart! Any word on the latest with DD's failure to appear?
wm
As of 9/18, the warrant is still outstanding. It appears that a $5000 bond was forfeited; someone can't be happy about that.
GetSmart
09-18-2009, 10:18 PM
Ok so...... "It appears that a $5000 bond was forfeited; someone can't be happy about that."
Does that mean someone is out 500.00... and the Bail Bondsman is out the 500.00 or the 5000.00 until they arrest DD..
This gets confusing doesn't it..
Ok so...... "It appears that a $5000 bond was forfeited; someone can't be happy about that."
Does that mean someone is out 500.00... and the Bail Bondsman is out the 500.00 or the 5000.00 until they arrest DD..
This gets confusing doesn't it..
I believe that whoever posted bail and co-signed for him is on the hook for the full $5000 minus the presumed 10% deposit. Also I believe the co-signor has to pay for the bail agent's expenses to find him.
I don't think he can be that hard to find as it seems that he was still posting to myspace as of 9/15.
I believe that whoever posted bail and co-signed for him is on the hook for the full $5000 minus the presumed 10% deposit. Also I believe the co-signor has to pay for the bail agent's expenses to find him.
I don't think he can be that hard to find as it seems that he was still posting to myspace as of 9/15.
He is still logging into his myspace page on an almost daily basis...why is it that he is so hard to find?
Ruflossn
09-27-2009, 09:54 AM
He is still logging into his myspace page on an almost daily basis...why is it that he is so hard to find?
Great question! I do not think he is hard to find. Maybe LE knows where he is and is watching his dealings w/ others? Personally, I doubt that. But, who knows???
RPS, thanks for keeping WS updated on this creep.
Flossie.
SewingDeb
09-28-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm afraid I haven't checked on this case in quite awhile. Who is DD and how might he relate to this case?
Thanks in advance.
Tom'sGirl
09-28-2009, 08:54 PM
I'm afraid I haven't checked on this case in quite awhile. Who is DD and how might he relate to this case?
Thanks in advance.
Dustyn was one of a few men that were questioned by the Grand Jury a year ago.
http://newsok.com/grand-jury-grills-three-men-in-weleetka-killings/article/3292830
His photo is up in the Photo thread here
Sooner Fan#1
10-02-2009, 09:58 PM
Dustyn was one of a few men that were questioned by the Grand Jury a year ago.
http://newsok.com/grand-jury-grills-three-men-in-weleetka-killings/article/3292830
His photo is up in the Photo thread here (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2624319&postcount=30)
I havent kept up either. I was n the hospital in Philly due to a stroke...what happened with the documentary?
Hippy Chick
10-03-2009, 12:12 PM
about the bond whoever put up the 500 dollors is out that money anytime that is the bondsman's fee, the bondsman in ultimely responsible for the whole amt thats why they look for these guys and hire bounty hunters
SailorMoon
10-03-2009, 07:51 PM
Think of these poor girls almost daily. Blows me away that no one has talked, no one seems to know anything. Hoping for justice someday. They sure didn't deserve to die the way they did.
little726
10-05-2009, 08:50 PM
about the bond whoever put up the 500 dollors is out that money anytime that is the bondsman's fee, the bondsman in ultimely responsible for the whole amt thats why they look for these guys and hire bounty hunters
I wonder if bounty hunters go so far as to shoot family members of the ones who owe money?
Ruflossn
10-26-2009, 08:35 AM
Dustyn has finally been arrested.
http://okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com/PressArrestRelease.asp?itbSiteID=6&ArrestNo=2009002596
GetSmart
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
So as I read this right .. he has been in jail since Sunday... Holy Moly ...
Thanks Flossie and anyone else that posted the update.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=8760
Arrest No:NameOB:
2009002596 DAILEY, DUSTYN OBRIEN1/26/1990
Race:Gender:Height:Weight:Hair:Eyes:
WHITE Male 510225Brown HAZZLE
Arrested:Arresting Agency:10/25/2009OCSO
DispositionSevCharge
OPEN/ACTIVE FEL WARRANT-FELONY Powered by: Justice Software Solutions (http://www.jailsoftware.com/)
His eyes are hazzle?? (forgive me. couldn't resist pointing that out.) :)
Ai-yi-yi. What's the thinking about this guy Dustyn again? Or can someone point me to where I can find out. I forget!
Ruflossn
10-26-2009, 07:19 PM
His eyes are hazzle?? (forgive me. couldn't resist pointing that out.) :)
Ai-yi-yi. What's the thinking about this guy Dustyn again? Or can someone point me to where I can find out. I forget!
Tapu,
I also noted the "hazzle". Good Grief..........
Anyway, DD has been (loosely) connected to the murders of Skyla and Taylor since day one. I say loosely because his name has been tossed around as someone possibly connected to the crime but, no charges have ever been filed. The only thing on public record about his possible involvement is the fact he was a witness that was called to testify in front of a Grand Jury. Hope this helps.
RuFlossn
Ruflossn
10-26-2009, 07:22 PM
So as I read this right .. he has been in jail since Sunday... Holy Moly ...
Thanks Flossie and anyone else that posted the update.
No problem 99.
I just hope his arrest will bring new info. connected to Weleetka.
I doubt that will be the case.
:banghead:
P.S. ~ Hope you are well. :)
Mysterylover
10-27-2009, 04:28 PM
Tapu,
I also noted the "hazzle". Good Grief..........
Anyway, DD has been (loosely) connected to the murders of Skyla and Taylor since day one.
I say loosely because his name has been tossed around as someone possibly connected to the crime but, no charges have ever been filed.
The only thing on public record about his possible involvement is the fact he was a witness that was called to testify in front of a Grand Jury. Hope this helps.
RuFlossn
Ruflossn, Correct me if I'm wrong about the following.
I remember reading months ago, that DD was at the P.'s that Saturday and possibly that Sunday.
IF, I say if, he was at the P.'s that Sunday, maybe he is 'only' a witness too scared to talk and collect the reward.
Remember the blonde girl and dark haired guy they brought in in handcuffs?
These 2 people were un-willing witnesses also.
IF they were not visiting the P.'s that Sunday how were they witnesses?
ArizonaGiGi
10-27-2009, 04:43 PM
DD got picked up. YAY!! Maybe some justice will come out of this. It's about time.
Thanks for keeping us posted on this info RPS RUF and GETSMART and whoever else is on top of this.
Tom'sGirl
10-27-2009, 05:01 PM
Reward Renewed for Information in Weleetka Murders (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.ksbitv.com/news/66570187.html&ct=ga&cd=h-VVq1CopMI&usg=AFQjCNGSctbSP3qf80zu98CYVFViLOdKcA)
KSBI 52 - Oklahoma City,OK,USA
... has just announced the substantial reward announced in July of $160000 in the murders of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whitaker in Weleetka has been renewed.
The reward will be renewed for 90 days beginning Wednesday, October 28.
DD got picked up. YAY!! Maybe some justice will come out of this. It's about time.
Thanks for keeping us posted on this info RPS RUF and GETSMART and whoever else is on top of this.
His Revocation Hearing is scheduled for Nov 4. I assume this is when they will determine whether he will need to serve his full sentence or not.
Ruflossn
11-02-2009, 01:32 PM
Ruflossn, Correct me if I'm wrong about the following.
I remember reading months ago, that DD was at the P.'s that Saturday and possibly that Sunday.
IF, I say if, he was at the P.'s that Sunday, maybe he is 'only' a witness too scared to talk and collect the reward.
Remember the blonde girl and dark haired guy they brought in in handcuffs?
These 2 people were un-willing witnesses also.
IF they were not visiting the P.'s that Sunday how were they witnesses?
Hi Mystery Lover,
I wish I knew whether DD was at the Plackers house on the Sunday the girls were killed. The timeline and the people at the Plackers have always been a point of contention w/ myself and so many others that are interested in this crime. There does not seem to be any clear cut answers to either question. UGH.......... Personally, I do believe DD has knowledge of the perp. that killed the girls. He may not have been the one to 'pull the trigger(s)" but, he does have some knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the murders. Again, this all my opinion only.
I do remember the man and woman that were unwilling witnesses to the Grand Jury. (Wendy was the female and I can not remember the male's name). IIRC, they had made comments that alluded to the fact they had knowledge of the crime and possibly those involved. They MAY have been related to DD? I do not have my notes w/ me so this is from memory only. Also, they allegedly, were harrassing a member of the Placker family. Again, this all from memory and mostly my opinion.
Hope this helps. Sorry, I could not be more helpful..........
RuFlossn
Suthrnqt
11-02-2009, 06:28 PM
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2008/06/taylor-dawn-paschal-skyla-jade-whitaker.html
Hope I am allowed to post this here. Thought you might find it interesting. According to the charts, 3 people were involved and they were looking for a "thrill kill". Sounds sick, I know. Maybe it will help move the investigation in the right direction.
GetSmart
11-02-2009, 07:42 PM
I have never read at that website before.. all I can say is WOW... it sure does bring an interesting way to look at things, and I I really don't think its that far off target. sure opens up my minds window to think about certain things. :waitasec: Thanks Suthrnqt
GetSmart
11-03-2009, 01:00 AM
Another find that I thought worthwhile to put out there for thought. Remember when we discussed Gangs ect.. well DD has photo albums dedicated to "CRIP 4 LIFE" and more
ArizonaGiGi
11-03-2009, 03:38 PM
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2008/06/taylor-dawn-paschal-skyla-jade-whitaker.html
Hope I am allowed to post this here. Thought you might find it interesting. According to the charts, 3 people were involved and they were looking for a "thrill kill". Sounds sick, I know. Maybe it will help move the investigation in the right direction.
Our very own F.R.O.G. posted this link back when. Very interesting idea but hard for me to believe that if what happened was remotely close to this scenario that no one has talked yet or turned on each other for the $$$. One hundred sixty thousand dollars is enough to live on for years in that town. Or get the hell outta dodge and start fresh.
Nope, I think it's people that are connected. And I still believe that P's know who and why. But we'll never know because they won't talk. LKP told me in an email in August "its up to OSBI to solve it".
Sounded more like a challenge than a wish.
Houndacres
11-03-2009, 10:12 PM
I don't know how to post a link to CNN.Com, but there is a story from the cold case files about the girls. There is really nothing new, just a review and plea for information. It is dated 10/27/09. It also has a great picture of Skyla and Taylor. On the webiste, click on Justice across the top bar and scroll down to Cold Cases.
Praying for Justice for Skyla & Taylor
Boots-OK
11-03-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't know how to post a link to CNN.Com, but there is a story from the cold case files about the girls. There is really nothing new, just a review and plea for information. It is dated 10/27/09. It also has a great picture of Skyla and Taylor. On the webiste, click on Justice across the top bar and scroll down to Cold Cases.
Praying for Justice for Skyla & Taylor
Houndacres, credit for that photo belongs to one of our very own WS'ers, GetSmart. Early on, she cropped a group cheerleading photo and combined Taylor and Skyla into the single photo. The Whitakers have used it on a large cross they put at the Memorial. Mr. Whitaker has indicated it's their favorite and he supplies it to the media when asked for pictures. Kudos to GetSmart!!
It would be nice to have the picture posted here. ;)
Here's the CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/24/justice.grace.coldcase.oklahoma/index.html
Morag
11-03-2009, 11:17 PM
Here's the CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/24/justice.grace.coldcase.oklahoma/index.html
From the cnn transcript:
Taylor's grandfather tried calling Taylor on her cell phone shortly after the girls left (at about 5PM). He wanted to tell them to be home before dark.
On June 9, sunset wouldn't be until nearly 9PM. Did they sometimes stay out past dark? Why would he call them at 530 or so-3 hours until dark- to remind them?
GetSmart
11-03-2009, 11:34 PM
Here is the pic boots was talking about.. Thank you for the kind words. I have a nice one of the cross somewhere I will have to look on my flash drive..
wfgodot
11-24-2009, 02:00 PM
Bumping this one because it should never be forgotten.
(Also, sweetheart29 has graced WS with a new link ["What is going on in southeastern Oklahoma"] which includes a variety of unsolved cases, including Weleetka [and others in SE OK and across the state]. The number of fairly recent, unsolved cases here is mind-boggling: this one, the Denney and Huls double homicides, Joe Neff and Jody Rilee-Wilson, the missing Jamison family, et al.)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Okay, I get nervous when a few weeks pass and no comments appear for Taylor and Skyla. So....BUMP! This case can be solved. LE needs to solve it.
Ruflossn
11-25-2009, 01:38 AM
Bumping this one because it should never be forgotten.
(Also, sweetheart29 has graced WS with a new link ["What is going on in southeastern Oklahoma"] which includes a variety of unsolved cases, including Weleetka [and others in SE OK and across the state]. The number of fairly recent, unsolved cases here is mind-boggling: this one, the Denney and Huls double homicides, Joe Neff and Jody Rilee-Wilson, the missing Jamison family, et al.)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91813)
Okay, I get nervous when a few weeks pass and no comments appear for Taylor and Skyla. So....BUMP! This case can be solved. LE needs to solve it.
Let's not forget the bizarre murder of Carol Daniels. The 61 yo pastor that was murdered in her church on a Sunday morning. She lived in Oklahoma City and drove every weekend to Anadarko, OK. I can not believe that crime remains unsolved. :banghead:
http://newsok.com/anadarkochurchkilling
The Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, was found dead in an Anadarko church, Sunday, Aug. 23. Daniels, a pastor from Oklahoma City, traveled to Anadarko every other Sunday to preach. The district attorney involved in the case called it "horrific."
wfgodot
11-25-2009, 09:57 AM
Let's not forget the bizarre murder of Carol Daniels. The 61 yo pastor that was murdered in her church on a Sunday morning. She lived in Oklahoma City and drove every weekend to Anadarko, OK. I can not believe that crime remains unsolved. :banghead:
http://newsok.com/anadarkochurchkilling
The Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, was found dead in an Anadarko church, Sunday, Aug. 23. Daniels, a pastor from Oklahoma City, traveled to Anadarko every other Sunday to preach. The district attorney involved in the case called it "horrific."
Amen. Just gave that thread a bump, and here's another for this one.
wfgodot
11-25-2009, 10:45 PM
Good News/Bad News Dept.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation forms new cold case unit to find DNA evidence
Wow, it sounds like we in Oklahoma just discovered the wonders of DNA. But....
"Some cases the unit will examine are from the 1970s, but some are just a few years old, Perkinson said. The OSBI does not consider recent high-profile cases such as the fatal shootings of Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, near Weleetka in 2008 and the August slaying of pastor Carol Daniels in Anadarko to be cold, because investigators still have leads to follow."
Well, this means they're still---apparently---following leads.
http://newsok.com/osbi-forms-new-cold-case-unit-to-find-dna-evidence/article/3420292?custom_click=lead_story_title
little726
11-25-2009, 11:03 PM
Good News/Bad News Dept.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation forms new cold case unit to find DNA evidence
Wow, it sounds like we in Oklahoma just discovered the wonders of DNA. But....
"Some cases the unit will examine are from the 1970s, but some are just a few years old, Perkinson said. The OSBI does not consider recent high-profile cases such as the fatal shootings of Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, near Weleetka in 2008 and the August slaying of pastor Carol Daniels in Anadarko to be cold, because investigators still have leads to follow."
Well, this means they're still---apparently---following leads.
http://newsok.com/osbi-forms-new-cold-case-unit-to-find-dna-evidence/article/3420292?custom_click=lead_story_title
It's about freaken time!!!
Houndacres
11-25-2009, 11:19 PM
Bumping this one because it should never be forgotten.
(Also, sweetheart29 has graced WS with a new link ["What is going on in southeastern Oklahoma"] which includes a variety of unsolved cases, including Weleetka [and others in SE OK and across the state]. The number of fairly recent, unsolved cases here is mind-boggling: this one, the Denney and Huls double homicides, Joe Neff and Jody Rilee-Wilson, the missing Jamison family, et al.)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91813)
Okay, I get nervous when a few weeks pass and no comments appear for Taylor and Skyla. So....BUMP! This case can be solved. LE needs to solve it.
ITA. Bump for Skyla & Taylor:angel:
Ruflossn
11-26-2009, 12:17 AM
Good News/Bad News Dept.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation forms new cold case unit to find DNA evidence
Wow, it sounds like we in Oklahoma just discovered the wonders of DNA. But....
"Some cases the unit will examine are from the 1970s, but some are just a few years old, Perkinson said. The OSBI does not consider recent high-profile cases such as the fatal shootings of Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, near Weleetka in 2008 and the August slaying of pastor Carol Daniels in Anadarko to be cold, because investigators still have leads to follow."
Well, this means they're still---apparently---following leads.
http://newsok.com/osbi-forms-new-cold-case-unit-to-find-dna-evidence/article/3420292?custom_click=lead_story_title
I am so tired of the OSBI stating they are still following leads in regards to Taylor and Skyla. :banghead:
However, I am thankful there is a cold case unit being established. I wonder if the CC Unit will look at the Locust Grove Girl Scout murders?
wfgodot
11-26-2009, 10:45 AM
I am so tired of the OSBI stating they are still following leads in regards to Taylor and Skyla. :banghead:
However, I am thankful there is a cold case unit being established. I wonder if the CC Unit will look at the Locust Grove Girl Scout murders?
Couldn't agree with you more; OSBI's reputation at this point is like the punchline to a bad joke.
Locust Grove was the first case that sprang to my mind, as there should have been a huge amount of physical evidence collected at the camp. I wonder if it's been saved, though. LE was so sure Gene Leroy Hart did it that they may have just tossed it all after the trial.* (For those unfamiliar with the case, here's a good short account: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Girl_Scout_Murders)
*"Thirty years later authorities conducted new DNA testing, but the results of these proved inconclusive, as the samples were too old."
I'm hoping that OK media do some stories over the holidays about Taylor and Skyla. Not holding my breath, you understand. But, frequently, they'll do some human interest-type things.
Nikki_2
11-26-2009, 09:41 PM
Bumping this one because it should never be forgotten.
(Also, sweetheart29 has graced WS with a new link ["What is going on in southeastern Oklahoma"] which includes a variety of unsolved cases, including Weleetka [and others in SE OK and across the state]. The number of fairly recent, unsolved cases here is mind-boggling: this one, the Denney and Huls double homicides, Joe Neff and Jody Rilee-Wilson, the missing Jamison family, et al.)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91813)
Okay, I get nervous when a few weeks pass and no comments appear for Taylor and Skyla. So....BUMP! This case can be solved. LE needs to solve it.
All crimes against children are horrific and always, always sad.. I'm so glad that you have pushed this as I know as with other cases this should not be forgotten or left to collect dust. I like everyone else here totally agree with you.
I have read on a few other forums people debating this case, one in particular forum seemed to have the girls family members and I can only presume locals that live in the area getting into heated and pretty nasty 'debate'. It got all too personal, they seemed to forget that it was not about them and their personal issues.
How can such a small community not notice anything? Everyone knows everyones business and yet such a tragedy to occur and they know nothing.
Wfgodot - it is wonderful that people like you make sure cases like this are not lost and forgotten, that you remind us this is not just a 'case' but a tragedy which involves two beautiful, innocent children, who once had dreams, who had just started to venture into life.... Thankyou
wfgodot
11-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Thanks much, Nikki 2. How can a small community not notice anything? Well, I think several of them probably have. But Oklahoma's a strange place. Lots of great people, yes, but....well, to quote myself from another OK case thread, "It is a state in which favors and past agreements govern an abundance of situations, no matter the seriousness of the activity involved." And that type of secrecy can cross the line between civilians and LE, and some cases never get solved because of it.
Nikki_2
11-26-2009, 10:14 PM
Wfgodot - You are right and your quote sums that up perfectly, but I still wish to believe, I have to believe that somewhere, someone will shine and come out of their conformed narrowminded ways and speak out.
wfgodot
11-26-2009, 10:25 PM
Wfgodot - You are right and your quote sums that up perfectly, but I still wish to believe, I have to believe that somewhere, someone will shine and come out of their conformed narrowminded ways and speak out.
Me too. I was living down in San Antonio when I first heard about the case, right after it happened. I'd lived in OK for ten years (and now I'm back), and the horrid thought dawned on me that this would never be solved, just like the Locust Grove murders in 1977---they tried a Native American for that one and he was found not guilty; in the case of the Weleetka girls, LE released the drawing of the Native man who evidently had been near the scene, a person of interest. It was deja vu. I really lost hope then, but hope is all we have, and I hope this case is resolved, and soon. It makes me very, very angry. It can be solved, but will it?
Suthrnqt
11-26-2009, 10:43 PM
Bumpity Bump Bump
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2008/06/taylor-dawn-paschal-skyla-jade-whitaker.html
Hope I am allowed to post this here. Thought you might find it interesting. According to the charts, 3 people were involved and they were looking for a "thrill kill". Sounds sick, I know. Maybe it will help move the investigation in the right direction.
I posted this before and I am posting it again.
With the motive in the recent Elizabeth Olten case being released as a "thrill kill", maybe, just maybe, the astros are pointing in the right direction here. Like everyone else here, I just want this cased solved.
Nikki_2
11-27-2009, 12:57 AM
Ok.... I want to relate some things that I have read, I'm sure some of you have come across this so if I read all over the place someone jump in and help me out.
If you look at the Weleetka Forum, ( which has 1000's of posts in re: to the two girls) there was one person in particular ( probably family member ) who wrote that she received a link from someone who did not wish to be identified, ( okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com) - (sorry I am not a genius with pc's to highlight direct links) the link contained a mugshot of a Rickey Luellen, arrested 22.09.2009 - Who is this person and does anyone know why he was a suspect in this case? Anyway this person then goes to write that she knew this person for certain had nothing to do with the children etc...
I just thought that this forum was interesting, ( if you can wade through the nasty and timewasting posts, there are things that could be seen as useful, or just my wishful thinking)
There is a person that goes by the username of NurseJ, her posts seem to give the impression that she knows more than she lets on, ( she is also the one that put that mugshot in) her posts were pretty angry, and I guess I did the emotional thing by telling her ( that was & is my only post on that site ), well she really let me have it ( I am down on their site as from Sydney Austr) As much as I am passionate in my feelings and thoughts in regards to crime , my aim is not to offend, argue or belittle anyone on any site in regards to their opinion.
Too much personal bickering going on on that site, but there are things that are there and someone who knows that area would probably be able to clue in on all of this.
I got a personal message from 'J' which only said to go to the Weeletka Forum in re to 'Jimpsy" that I should read the posts there as there is some 'love triange' - I don't know how much any of those posts there had to do with this case, but one thing that caught my eye was someone who was looking for someone with a ' white truck' ( she mentioned his name too)
Was not a truck somehow involved?
I apologise to everyone here, I know this post seems a mess, if someone has read these WF posts and seen those links you will have a better understanding of what I am actually 'trying' to say here. Would appreciate any feedback, especially in re" to the photo of Ricky Luellen and the 'white truck'.
If someone has the time and patience to go through the mounds of posts there, and if you are near that area, you would be able to make so much better sense of it all.
Thanks everyone
Nikki_2
11-27-2009, 01:11 AM
Ok.... I want to relate some things that I have read, I'm sure some of you have come across this so if I read all over the place someone jump in and help me out.
If you look at the Weleetka Forum, ( which has 1000's of posts in re: to the two girls) there was one person in particular ( probably family member ) who wrote that she received a link from someone who did not wish to be identified, ( okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com) - (sorry I am not a genius with pc's to highlight direct links) the link contained a mugshot of a Rickey Luellen, arrested 22.09.2009 - Who is this person and does anyone know why he was a suspect in this case? Anyway this person then goes to write that she knew this person for certain had nothing to do with the children etc...
I just thought that this forum was interesting, ( if you can wade through the nasty and timewasting posts, there are things that could be seen as useful, or just my wishful thinking)
There is a person that goes by the username of NurseJ, her posts seem to give the impression that she knows more than she lets on, ( she is also the one that put that mugshot in) her posts were pretty angry, and I guess I did the emotional thing by telling her ( that was & is my only post on that site ), well she really let me have it ( I am down on their site as from Sydney Austr) As much as I am passionate in my feelings and thoughts in regards to crime , my aim is not to offend, argue or belittle anyone on any site in regards to their opinion.
Too much personal bickering going on on that site, but there are things that are there and someone who knows that area would probably be able to clue in on all of this.
I got a personal message from 'J' which only said to go to the Weeletka Forum in re to 'Jimpsy" that I should read the posts there as there is some 'love triange' - I don't know how much any of those posts there had to do with this case, but one thing that caught my eye was someone who was looking for someone with a ' white truck' ( she mentioned his name too)
Was not a truck somehow involved?
I apologise to everyone here, I know this post seems a mess, if someone has read these WF posts and seen those links you will have a better understanding of what I am actually 'trying' to say here. Would appreciate any feedback, especially in re" to the photo of Ricky Luellen and the 'white truck'.
If someone has the time and patience to go through the mounds of posts there, and if you are near that area, you would be able to make so much better sense of it all.
Thanks everyone
Tom'sGirl
11-27-2009, 03:48 PM
snip
Ok.... I want to relate some things that I have read, I'm sure some of you have come across this so if I read all over the place someone jump in and help me out.
If you look at the Weleetka Forum
I personally take what is posted at TOPIX with a grain of salt, they form their own dramas over there because you don't have to register to post.
Ruflossn
11-27-2009, 05:06 PM
Ok.... I want to relate some things that I have read, I'm sure some of you have come across this so if I read all over the place someone jump in and help me out.
I apologise to everyone here, I know this post seems a mess, if someone has read these WF posts and seen those links you will have a better understanding of what I am actually 'trying' to say here. Would appreciate any feedback, especially in re" to the photo of Ricky Luellen and the 'white truck'.
If someone has the time and patience to go through the mounds of posts there, and if you are near that area, you would be able to make so much better sense of it all.
Thanks everyone
Nikki_2,
I am assuming you are talking about the Topix forum on the Weleetka case.
If you could post the dates where R. Luellen was discussed, I would be happy to look at the site for you. I use to read / post there on a regular basis, however there was so much hatred on that site (some of it directed towards me) that I quit reading. BTW ~ no need to apologize for anything you have written. It is nice to have some fresh eyes / thoughts about this terrible crime and the injustice that surrounds it.
Ruflossn.
Ruflossn
11-27-2009, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=wfgodot;4490805]
Locust Grove was the first case that sprang to my mind, as there should have been a huge amount of physical evidence collected at the camp. I wonder if it's been saved, though. LE was so sure Gene Leroy Hart did it that they may have just tossed it all after the trial.* (For those unfamiliar with the case, here's a good short account: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Girl_Scout_Murders)
*"Thirty years later authorities conducted new DNA testing, but the results of these proved inconclusive, as the samples were too old."
QUOTE]
wfgodot,
Do you know if there is a WS thread on the Girl Scout murders?
I do not want to derail this thread / topic and talk about GS murders but, I am curious to know your thoughts? At the time of the murders, I was a Girl Scout. (living in OKlahoma) I was not old enough to go to the 'over night camps' but, could not wait to do so. I remember this crime so vividly. As an adult, with the help of the interenet, I have read things that I never knew. It is a frightening, explosively, violent case.
wfgodot
11-27-2009, 05:24 PM
Amazingly (to me anyway; I should have checked), yes, there is. Last post 06.07.09:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5374&highlight=locust+grove+1977
and also....
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49733&highlight=locust+grove+1977
This one covers the 2007 DNA testing.
Ruflossn
11-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Amazingly (to me anyway; I should have checked), yes, there is. Last post 06.07.09:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5374&highlight=locust+grove+1977
and also....
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49733&highlight=locust+grove+1977
This one covers the fairly recent DNA testing.
Awesome. Thanks for looking that up.
I have to log off now, but when time permits, I am going to check it out.
Maybe I will see you there?
Ruflossn
wfgodot
11-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Awesome. Thanks for looking that up.
I have to log off now, but when time permits, I am going to check it out.
Maybe I will see you there?
Ruflossn
You can bet on it! I just posted the OSBI update on the main Locust Grove thread.
Nikki_2
11-27-2009, 07:07 PM
snip
I personally take what is posted at TOPIX with a grain of salt, they form their own dramas over there because you don't have to register to post.
I agree, there is alot of hatred, gossip,etc but these are local people that live in the area, they know each other and they know what goes on.
Although they all have 'usernames' they seem to know exactly who is who, in some parts it is as if they are totally oblivious to the world around them and get so involved into their 'conversations' as if noone else on the planet can see.
I think it is important that no stone is left unturned, we all see things from a different perspective, which makes this site so special and unique, I am positive that if only 10 of us read the posts on that forum that we would all have different opinions, in discussing them, you never know someone might just be able to piece something together, or see something so trivial that could mean a giant leap forward.
I just hope that it is not dismissed or at least looked at simply for the fact that it is a forum that has a bunch of angry locals lashing out, remember sometimes in anger alot of truths a said...
Nikki_2
11-27-2009, 07:44 PM
Nikki_2,
I am assuming you are talking about the Topix forum on the Weleetka case.
If you could post the dates where R. Luellen was discussed, I would be happy to look at the site for you. I use to read / post there on a regular basis, however there was so much hatred on that site (some of it directed towards me) that I quit reading. BTW ~ no need to apologize for anything you have written. It is nice to have some fresh eyes / thoughts about this terrible crime and the injustice that surrounds it.
Ruflossn.
Thankyou. In the Weleetka News - Topix - 'Topic discussions' - Hunt for a killer - Sept/30/09 - NurseJ her comments in regards to RL?
If you could read a few posts by this NurseJ before this date and after and some of the comments, she seems to be someone who is not only angry but I feel that she knows alot more.
I appreciate very much that you are willing to have a look, and if you can go back a few pages, especially where the locals discuss the time line in re to the girls movements.
August/07/08 - Mom56 - gives a new addr link, could you have a look, and see what you think?
Much appreciate your time and reply
YellowDog
11-27-2009, 08:57 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91287&page=12
Here is some information I found on another case about creation of a Cold Case Unit in Oklahoma to try to solve some cases including the Waleetka murders. I thought you might find it interesting.
ArizonaGiGi
11-28-2009, 02:09 AM
The old P house burned to the ground last week. A photo was on the front page of the Weleetkan on friday. I would post a link but it's not online, that I can find.
Incidentally someone was seen leaving as the fire was discovered by a passerby so possibly arson. I say possibly arson because this Summer someone was camping out inside of the house complete with sleeping bag and portable stove but the caretaker ran them off and secured the house so not sure if homeless broke back in and accidentally set the fire or if it was intentional.
wfgodot
11-28-2009, 01:41 PM
Having not visited the Topix/Weleetka forum in many a moon, I took a gander at it---good grief, it now has more entries than the Domesday Book (17,190 to 13,148). 860 pages-worth on the main thread.
But the "take it with a grain of salt" ratio really isn't bad---yes, long stretches go by with troll playing leap-frog with troll, but the interest in the case is obvious, and the determination to solve the murders of Taylor and Skyla is beyond sincere. This translates into the occasional very interesting post.
As Nikki 2 says above, bitter indeed is NurseJ (see 858-59, # 22527-8, 22536): "Maybe the locals think murder is right," she writes, going on to call certain posters "lowlife drama hogs." She may know something, but she seems more eager to take it out on locals, who "know who killed these girls but are afraid to talk...(the girls) are in a better place now, away from people who say they loved them."
That's bitter.
But I think her main thrust, in the admittedly few posts I've read, seems to be to alibi for possible person of interest RL (see above, #45): she posts that she knows where he was "during that time frame." Her anger seems to be directed more toward RL's not being cleared than it does toward the murders of Taylor and Skyla not being solved.
A couple I found interesting: WhySunday (854, #22439), who lists a series of questions, including "Why would the killer just happen to have 2 loaded guns with him or her at the exact time they see the girls at the tree?" Also, Bonehead's timeline (855, #22463) is well-worth reading.
Back to reading.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395
Hello everyone, hope you all don't mind if I peek my head around the door for a moment. I haven't read all 20 threads on this tragedy, but I've read enough to have gotten all of the important, confirmed details, and I am aghast that someone or somebodys are not yet in jail for this. I am not from the area, and have never been to Oklahoma, but what is wrong with OSBI and OK LE? I honestly believe that if you all had been privy to all of the evidence and had been able to conduct the initial investigation of the murder scene, this would have been solved by now. I have no doubt. And at least the majority of you are not professional detectives/LE! I get the feeling that OSBI is supposed to be the brightest of the brightest of investigators, and still they have got nothing. And I honestly believe they've got nothing.
I also truly believe this was committed by locals, two of them. Under 25, maybe even under 20. They no doubt live in Weleetka or a bordering town. And they definitely knew Taylor, if not both of the girls. Weleetka is a town of under 1500 people. So why haven't these boys been found? There are also no doubt mothers or grandmothers who know or have a strong suspicion that their son/grandson was involved, but they either don't want to turn in their son because they love him, they are afraid of their son, or they have the attitude "the girls are already dead; what's done cannot be undone" and are not intelligent enough to realize the necessity of justice. These poor, beautiful girls, shot in a frenzy of young male testosterone and utter indifference to human life. I also think boys rather than men committed this crime as I truly believe there are VERY few adults at all who could shoot a child, and if for some reason they had to (to quiet them, etc) they would do so quickly - one shot to the head. But boys wouldn't see Taylor and Skyla as "children", because they are children too. To them, the girls were just their peers, not "children". The tall Native American with the black ponytail looks onimous and scary at first glance - right out of a Coen brothers movie - the only problem is that I don't think he really exists. What is everyone else's opinion on him?
Ok, back to lurking on this one. But I am just so blown away from the variety of intelligent and analytical and truly caring minds working in harmony on this thread.
Ruflossn
12-01-2009, 06:17 PM
Hello everyone, hope you all don't mind if I peek my head around the door for a moment. I haven't read all 20 threads on this tragedy, but I've read enough to have gotten all of the important, confirmed details, and I am aghast that someone or somebodys are not yet in jail for this. I am not from the area, and have never been to Oklahoma, but what is wrong with OSBI and OK LE? I honestly believe that if you all had been privy to all of the evidence and had been able to conduct the initial investigation of the murder scene, this would have been solved by now. I have no doubt. And at least the majority of you are not professional detectives/LE! I get the feeling that OSBI is supposed to be the brightest of the brightest of investigators, and still they have got nothing. And I honestly believe they've got nothing.
I also truly believe this was committed by locals, two of them. Under 25, maybe even under 20. They no doubt live in Weleetka or a bordering town. And they definitely knew Taylor, if not both of the girls. Weleetka is a town of under 1500 people. So why haven't these boys been found? There are also no doubt mothers or grandmothers who know or have a strong suspicion that their son/grandson was involved, but they either don't want to turn in their son because they love him, they are afraid of their son, or they have the attitude "the girls are already dead; what's done cannot be undone" and are not intelligent enough to realize the necessity of justice. These poor, beautiful girls, shot in a frenzy of young male testosterone and utter indifference to human life. I also think boys rather than men committed this crime as I truly believe there are VERY few adults at all who could shoot a child, and if for some reason they had to (to quiet them, etc) they would do so quickly - one shot to the head. But boys wouldn't see Taylor and Skyla as "children", because they are children too. To them, the girls were just their peers, not "children". The tall Native American with the black ponytail looks onimous and scary at first glance - right out of a Coen brothers movie - the only problem is that I don't think he really exists. What is everyone else's opinion on him?
Ok, back to lurking on this one. But I am just so blown away from the variety of intelligent and analytical and truly caring minds working in harmony on this thread.
Hi Mia ~
You made some great points. The ones that I particularly agree w/ I highlighted and bolded.
As for the Native American w/ the black ponytail, I personally believe he does exist. However, that is jmo. Frequently, I travel to Oklahoma. The last time I was there, I stopped to get gasoline. In the space of 10 minutes, I saw 3 different individuals that all fit the description of the Native American, that was shown on the poster. My point is, the description of the Native American, would fit, a number of different individuals. I believe the Native American may have been wearing some sort of disguise etc....
Thanks for posting your thoughts.
Ruflossn
GetSmart
12-02-2009, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Mia http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Hello everyone, hope you all don't mind if I peek my head around the door for a moment. I haven't read all 20 threads on this tragedy, but I've read enough to have gotten all of the important, confirmed details, and I am aghast that someone or somebodys are not yet in jail for this. I am not from the area, and have never been to Oklahoma, but what is wrong with OSBI and OK LE?
Welcome MIA ...heck don't just peek around the door ..come on in a stay awhile. You have made some great points and I agree with them like flossie..
I would just like to add......In this area of OK... to be at that spot where the girls were murdered ..you HAVE to be a local. There is no oops off the road for a sight seeing tour. JMO
wfgodot
12-06-2009, 01:48 AM
Yet another example of the attitude of OSBI in regards their many unsolved murders, the article below documents their uncaring, unprofessional approach in the case of Pastor Carol Daniels's death in Anadarko, both to the public at large via the news media, and to Pastor Daniels's family; it also mentions the Weleetka girls and other OK unsolved cases.
It's shocking, really. This is why we in Oklahoma feel we are unprotected by state LE.
DA criticizes OSBI over Carol Daniels inquiry
ANADARKO PASTOR WAS KILLED, MUTILATED IN AUGUST
"[OSBI spokesperson Jessica Brown] compared the Anadarko case to the June 8, 2008, killings of Taylor Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, in Weleetka — another high-profile OSBI case that remains unsolved. In Weleetka, OSBI staged several news conferences on the steps of the Okfuskee County Courthouse and even set up a command post.
"None of those steps were taken in Anadarko."
FOR MORE CLASSIC JESSICA BROWN-ISMS---SHE SAYS THAT PASTOR DANIELS' MOTHER HAS OSBI'S NUMBER AND IS FREE TO CALL THEM, AND ALSO BLAMES THE NEWS MEDIA FOR THE CRIME BEING UNSOLVED, SEE
http://newsok.com/da-criticizes-osbi-over-carol-daniels-inquiry/article/3422863?custom_click=lead_story_title
Ruflossn
12-06-2009, 08:39 AM
The old P house burned to the ground last week. A photo was on the front page of the Weleetkan on friday. I would post a link but it's not online, that I can find.
Incidentally someone was seen leaving as the fire was discovered by a passerby so possibly arson. I say possibly arson because this Summer someone was camping out inside of the house complete with sleeping bag and portable stove but the caretaker ran them off and secured the house so not sure if homeless broke back in and accidentally set the fire or if it was intentional.
I was in Weleetka this weekend.
The former home of the Plackers did not burn to the ground.
At least, the home where the Plackers family lived when Taylor and Skyla were murdered has not burnt to the ground. (I am assuming that is the home that was referred to in the post by Arizona Gigi.) There was slight, visible fire damage near the front door. I am assuming there was fire, water, and smoke damage inside the house. I was on a tight schedule and did not have time to venture inside the home. I took a couple of photos of the house but, I used my cell phone and I am not sure how to post the photos to WS using my cell phone. (Computer technology is not my forte........ sorry.)
GetSmart ~ you are great w/ photos etc....... If I e-mail them to you or Facebook them to you, could you post them on here?
Ruflossn
Ruflossn
12-06-2009, 09:16 AM
Thankyou. In the Weleetka News - Topix - 'Topic discussions' - Hunt for a killer - Sept/30/09 - NurseJ her comments in regards to RL?
If you could read a few posts by this NurseJ before this date and after and some of the comments, she seems to be someone who is not only angry but I feel that she knows alot more.
I appreciate very much that you are willing to have a look, and if you can go back a few pages, especially where the locals discuss the time line in re to the girls movements.
August/07/08 - Mom56 - gives a new addr link, could you have a look, and see what you think?
Much appreciate your time and reply
Nikki_2,
I finally had time to read on the Topix forum.
Personally, I did not find anything that was of value. (jmo)
The posts by NurseJ do not add anything of investigative value to this case.
There has been a history of people on that thread that allude to all kinds of (mis)information. The fact that no one will speak succinctly about their information is one of the many reasons I no longer read that thread. I believe there are local people that know the true story of the tragic murders of Taylor and Skyla. Until someone has the courage to come forward and discuss this case w/ LE, it will remain unsolved. Again, all of this is just my opinion.
Have a great day.
Ruflossn
ArizonaGiGi
12-10-2009, 08:58 AM
So glad to hear that the newspaper is mistaken about the P house burning down! I'll be in Weleetka soon and will take time to investigate the outside and inside, take photos and post here when I return.
Ruflossn
12-10-2009, 10:19 PM
Hello All ~
I had help from a close friend on downloading and posting pics from the former home of the Plackers. Thanks to MK for helping me learn the technology needed to post the pics. YOU ROCK and I Love You!
Anyway, the pics from Dec. 4th are posted in an album on my profile.
The Placker house still stands.
Thanks again MK ~ :blowkiss:
Suthrnqt
12-10-2009, 10:46 PM
<<I also truly believe this was committed by locals, two of them. Under 25, maybe even under 20. They no doubt live in Weleetka or a bordering town. And they definitely knew Taylor, if not both of the girls. Weleetka is a town of under 1500 people. So why haven't these boys been found? There are also no doubt mothers or grandmothers who know or have a strong suspicion that their son/grandson was involved, but they either don't want to turn in their son because they love him, they are afraid of their son, or they have the attitude "the girls are already dead; what's done cannot be undone" and are not intelligent enough to realize the necessity of justice. These poor, beautiful girls, shot in a frenzy of young male testosterone and utter indifference to human life. I also think boys rather than men committed this crime as I truly believe there are VERY few adults at all who could shoot a child, and if for some reason they had to (to quiet them, etc) they would do so quickly - one shot to the head. But boys wouldn't see Taylor and Skyla as "children", because they are children too. To them, the girls were just their peers, not "children".>>>> posted by MIA
ITA with your theory on the suspects. I think some local juvenile boys, maybe even some local girls given the recent Elizabeth Olten case, committed these awful murders. I believe this was some kind of "thrill kill" because of the numerous gunshot wounds. The overkill here suggests someone known to Skyla & Taylor and that it was personal. No, I am not an expert, but I have taken some courses in criminal profiling; and I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
(jk) I know I shouldn't be joking and I apologize if I offended anyone.
sameole
12-11-2009, 04:38 AM
I recently joined webslueths, and thought I would post the timeline I put together on the two girls, based on a study conducted by the government on average walking times. I quote the Autoposy Report, specifically the "On Scene" time of 5:21, and the time the first call was made to 911. What I didn't add at that time was a relative, "Merry Edwards" and her facebook page that states," They heard the shots, and ran to see what happened." This, in spite of the fact that the Plackers state they didn't hear shots.
The only thing I know for sure about these murders are that Peter found the girls at 5:21, and that they didn't call 911 until 5:40. I am sure the girls walked to the bridge and back. I am positive of these things. What I am pretty sure of is this: from the "Walking Distance Reasearch T.O.D. Committee from "Transit Oriented Development/Nov 15th, 2006, is that a 1/4 mile walk = a 5 minute walk on average, and that a 1/2 mile walk = 10 minutes on average. I am pretty sure they left the Plackers at 5:pm because nothing is in print to the contrary, and the location of the bodies are consistant with a walk to the bridge and back. I am assuming the bridge is a 1/2 mile away because of everything I have read. The girls were 2/10 of a mile shy of returning to the Placker house when they were shot. That places those two babies in that spot at approximatly 5:18. Rose Whitaker states the Plackers arrived home at 5:20. 1 minute later Peter finds them dead. This ain't much of a mystery to me. Peter finds the bodies at 5:21,(Autopsy Report). 19 minutes goes by and Rose calls 911. Peter apparently lies to authorities and states he called 911 on Taylors cell phone. 6 minutes and 22 sec. later the police arrive, 5:46pm. The perps are 25 miles away. This points to the possiblity that the scene was tampered with. Is this timeline exact? No, give or take a few minutes, but it did place this case in a new perspective for me.
SailorMoon
12-11-2009, 10:48 AM
Hello All ~
I had help from a close friend on downloading and posting pics from the former home of the Plackers. Thanks to MK for helping me learn the technology needed to post the pics. YOU ROCK and I Love You!
Anyway, the pics from Dec. 4th are posted in an album on my profile.
The Placker house still stands.
Thanks again MK ~ :blowkiss:
I haven't read all way through but I went to your profile and don't see any pics. What am I doing wrong???!! Thanks.
Ruflossn
12-11-2009, 12:01 PM
I haven't read all way through but I went to your profile and don't see any pics. What am I doing wrong???!! Thanks.
SailorMoon,
Go to my profile page, scroll down until you see "Albums".
The album is entitled, "Weleetka". You should be able to open the album and see 2 photos. I set the requirements for viewing as "public" so that everyone should be able to view them. Hope this helps. Plz. let me know if it doesn't work.
BTW - The Memorial site looks exactly as it has in the past. I did not take any new pics since nothing had changed.........
Flossie
trigger
12-11-2009, 08:52 PM
I always check in to see if theres been any news. When I do my stomach turns into knots and I find myself about to cry. This case really got to me. I get a strong feeling that this case will be solve very soon.
GetSmart
12-12-2009, 08:42 PM
I am posting Flossies Pics here so we can look at them ....
Great Pic Kiddo !!
evelyn24
12-13-2009, 02:59 PM
Hello everyone, hope you all don't mind if I peek my head around the door for a moment. I haven't read all 20 threads on this tragedy, but I've read enough to have gotten all of the important, confirmed details, and I am aghast that someone or somebodys are not yet in jail for this. I am not from the area, and have never been to Oklahoma, but what is wrong with OSBI and OK LE? I honestly believe that if you all had been privy to all of the evidence and had been able to conduct the initial investigation of the murder scene, this would have been solved by now. I have no doubt. And at least the majority of you are not professional detectives/LE! I get the feeling that OSBI is supposed to be the brightest of the brightest of investigators, and still they have got nothing. And I honestly believe they've got nothing.
I also truly believe this was committed by locals, two of them. Under 25, maybe even under 20. They no doubt live in Weleetka or a bordering town. And they definitely knew Taylor, if not both of the girls. Weleetka is a town of under 1500 people. So why haven't these boys been found? There are also no doubt mothers or grandmothers who know or have a strong suspicion that their son/grandson was involved, but they either don't want to turn in their son because they love him, they are afraid of their son, or they have the attitude "the girls are already dead; what's done cannot be undone" and are not intelligent enough to realize the necessity of justice. These poor, beautiful girls, shot in a frenzy of young male testosterone and utter indifference to human life. I also think boys rather than men committed this crime as I truly believe there are VERY few adults at all who could shoot a child, and if for some reason they had to (to quiet them, etc) they would do so quickly - one shot to the head. But boys wouldn't see Taylor and Skyla as "children", because they are children too. To them, the girls were just their peers, not "children". The tall Native American with the black ponytail looks onimous and scary at first glance - right out of a Coen brothers movie - the only problem is that I don't think he really exists. What is everyone else's opinion on him?
Ok, back to lurking on this one. But I am just so blown away from the variety of intelligent and analytical and truly caring minds working in harmony on this thread.
I agree with you. I had many changing theories on this case, but my first initial gut instinct that I always go back to is a thrill kill by young teenage boys, or maybe one younger and one a little older.
Ruflossn
12-13-2009, 04:15 PM
I am posting Flossies Pics here so we can look at them ....
Great Pic Kiddo !!
Thanks so much for doing this 99!
I appreciate it.
:fish: I looked for a cute penguin to finish this post and could not find one.
So, knowing how you and I like the ocean, I chose this fish. :)
Flossie
Ruflossn
12-13-2009, 04:28 PM
I recently joined webslueths, and thought I would post the timeline I put together on the two girls, based on a study conducted by the government on average walking times. I quote the Autoposy Report, specifically the "On Scene" time of 5:21, and the time the first call was made to 911. What I didn't add at that time was a relative, "Merry Edwards" and her facebook page that states," They heard the shots, and ran to see what happened." This, in spite of the fact that the Plackers state they didn't hear shots.
The only thing I know for sure about these murders are that Peter found the girls at 5:21, and that they didn't call 911 until 5:40. I am sure the girls walked to the bridge and back. I am positive of these things. What I am pretty sure of is this: from the "Walking Distance Reasearch T.O.D. Committee from "Transit Oriented Development/Nov 15th, 2006, is that a 1/4 mile walk = a 5 minute walk on average, and that a 1/2 mile walk = 10 minutes on average. I am pretty sure they left the Plackers at 5:pm because nothing is in print to the contrary, and the location of the bodies are consistant with a walk to the bridge and back. I am assuming the bridge is a 1/2 mile away because of everything I have read. The girls were 2/10 of a mile shy of returning to the Placker house when they were shot. That places those two babies in that spot at approximatly 5:18. Rose Whitaker states the Plackers arrived home at 5:20. 1 minute later Peter finds them dead. This ain't much of a mystery to me. Peter finds the bodies at 5:21,(Autopsy Report). 19 minutes goes by and Rose calls 911. Peter apparently lies to authorities and states he called 911 on Taylors cell phone. 6 minutes and 22 sec. later the police arrive, 5:46pm. The perps are 25 miles away. This points to the possiblity that the scene was tampered with. Is this timeline exact? No, give or take a few minutes, but it did place this case in a new perspective for me.
Sameole,
Do you have any links to the statements that I bolded in your post?
I have always wanted to know exactly what time the 911 call was placed and I have had no luck finding out that info. Please post the link so that I can read it and review it.
I would also like to read where Rose stated the Plackers were gone from their residence and arrived home at 5:20. Who was at the Plackers the day the girls were murdered has been a question long pondered by many people. If you could show a link w/ the info that the Plackers were away from the house that would be a huge help.
I was under the impression that Vicki Placker called 911. Were there two 911 calls made? One by Vicki and another by Rose?
Thanks for your original post and thanks in advance for posting the links where you found the info.
Flossie
sameole
12-13-2009, 08:22 PM
I was under the impression that Vicki Placker called 911. Were there two 911 calls made? One by Vicki and another by Rose?
Thanks for your original post and thanks in advance for posting the links where you found the info.
Well, at the time I put the timeline together, I spent hours just reading articles pertaining to this case. Every thing I stated came from newspaper articles, etc. If you want to verify these facts, google Vicky Placker. Find out for yourself what she had to say. I didn't make it up.
One of the things I have never discussed since I ran across the info, was that about a month before the girls were killed, the daughter, whose first name I forget, had been in contact with an Indian group in Oklahoma City, pertaining to their Indian Roll Number. I copied the email and faxed it to the OSBI. That might explain the Indian in the neighborhood.
My best suggestion to you is, google each name you asked me a question about, all of that will pop up. The timelone is very accurate based on published info.
sameole
12-13-2009, 08:59 PM
Last but not least, and this is the most important part, is that the Whitakers son was part of a plea agreement in a murder/drug trial. He recieved a lesser sentence in return for his testimony. I believe that is why there is so much mystery invloved in this case. The family getting a lot of money, etc. The police inaction is better explained when you consider this as a factor. These girls were killed because of his testimony in Arkansas.
Ruflossn
12-13-2009, 10:08 PM
Last but not least, and this is the most important part, is that the Whitakers son was part of a plea agreement in a murder/drug trial. He recieved a lesser sentence in return for his testimony. I believe that is why there is so much mystery invloved in this case. The family getting a lot of money, etc. The police inaction is better explained when you consider this as a factor. These girls were killed because of his testimony in Arkansas.
Rose Whitakers son is named Edward Gordon. He was not convicted of a crime in Arkansas. The crime occured in Kansas. He was convicted in a criminal court of law in the state of Kansas. Below is a link to the story.
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_008223411.html
COLUMBUS, Kan. — Edward Gordon may testify this morning against co-defendant Samuel Becker, the lead prosecutor said at the close of Tuesday’s testimony in Cherokee County District Court.
Am I reading your post correctly in that you believe because Edward Gordon accepted a plea bargain in his criminal case that his family, specifically his Mother, Rose Whitaker, received "a lot of money"? Why would you think this? Who would have given the family "a lot of money"?
Harmony2
12-17-2009, 04:16 PM
Last but not least, and this is the most important part, is that the Whitakers son was part of a plea agreement in a murder/drug trial. He recieved a lesser sentence in return for his testimony. I believe that is why there is so much mystery invloved in this case. The family getting a lot of money, etc. The police inaction is better explained when you consider this as a factor. These girls were killed because of his testimony in Arkansas.
I don't know anything about the family receiving money but I had proposed a possible connection between the two cases in this post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Documentary Film Project
Suthrnqt
12-18-2009, 12:35 AM
I agree with you. I had many changing theories on this case, but my first initial gut instinct that I always go back to is a thrill kill by young teenage boys, or maybe one younger and one a little older.
Thanks Evelyn24 !!! ITA with you. I have supported and posted this theory also.
To me, too many shots were fired for adults to be involved. More like teenagers. Now I am still not sure if the teenagers had these victims in mind or that the girls were just in the wrong place/wrong time. Either way, I wish this case would be solved, but it seems like LE and OSBI are dragging their feet.
sameole
12-18-2009, 10:22 AM
Well, after re-reading my post I sound pretty sure of myself. I mean it can't be ruled out as a possible motive. The son had made a plea deal if I remember correctly, and it involved murder and drugs. His testimony put someone away for a while. It could be a possiblility.
little726
12-18-2009, 04:54 PM
Well, after re-reading my post I sound pretty sure of myself. I mean it can't be ruled out as a possible motive. The son had made a plea deal if I remember correctly, and it involved murder and drugs. His testimony put someone away for a while. It could be a possiblility.
I agree 100% with your theroy about Edward Gordon, sameole. This whole killing of the girls happened shortly after he testified.
little726
12-18-2009, 04:59 PM
It would have been very easy for ANYONE, to find Skyla that day.
little726
12-18-2009, 05:04 PM
Rose spoke to Skyla at 4:30 that afternoon. What was said...no one really knows! Maybe Rose knew something was going on and called Skyla to warn her. Even to tell the girls to get away from the house and hide.
ArizonaGiGi
12-19-2009, 03:13 AM
Rose spoke to Skyla at 4:30 that afternoon. What was said...no one really knows! Maybe Rose knew something was going on and called Skyla to warn her. Even to tell the girls to get away from the house and hide.
Maybe time to take another look at the other side.
little726
12-19-2009, 03:36 PM
Maybe time to take another look at the other side.
GiGi, it sure couldn't hurt. All of us have pretty much researched the Paschal-Placker connection. I, for one, am willing to invest some time into Whitaker side.
little726
12-19-2009, 10:41 PM
Here is a good news article about what happened with Edward Gordon and his friends:
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_008223411.html?start:int=0
It lists all the people who were involved.
sameole
12-20-2009, 07:02 AM
I agree 100% with your theroy about Edward Gordon, sameole. This whole killing of the girls happened shortly after he testified.
Yes, I had kind of skipped over all of this for a while, but the timing and everything fits. I don't remember, but which child had the most gunshots? Was it Whitaker or Placker?
Ruflossn
12-20-2009, 08:46 PM
I agree 100% with your theroy about Edward Gordon, sameole. This whole killing of the girls happened shortly after he testified.
Yes, I had kind of skipped over all of this for a while, but the timing and everything fits. I don't remember, but which child had the most gunshots? Was it Whitaker or Placker?
Skyla had the most gunshots. It has been theorized that Taylor was shot first, Skyla turned to run and was shot 2nd. If you review the autopsies, you will also see that Taylor has an abrasion on her face. (IIRC) It has been theorized, that someone confronted the girls, and struck Taylor. Eventually, threatening and killing both girls. The autopsy reports can be found on this thread. From what I understand, the autopsy reports are not complete. However, imo, there is a ton of information to be garnered from them.
Ruflossn
Ruflossn
12-20-2009, 08:48 PM
Here is a good news article about what happened with Edward Gordon and his friends:
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_008223411.html?start:int=0
It lists all the people who were involved.
I sincerely hope the OSBI has followed up on all the people involved in the Gordon crime(s). I would like to know the alibis for the people involved.
sameole
12-23-2009, 02:52 AM
Look, 2 days after these two girls were murdered, a man showed up here in our little corner bar. He left from up here in 2006 to go back to Oklahoma. The news plastered these two girls murders all over the local news for 48 hrs. All of a sudden, on the 10th, this guy is in my corner bar with another creep I have never seen before. Everything I have to say on here is still based on this guy, who no one seems to know where he is right now. The last thing his neighbor from up here told me was, "he is buying and throwing out cell phones like popcorn." So far, I am neither right or wrong because he is semi missing. A few short months after I called the OSBI, his ex girlfriend was arrested for selling cocaine out of the Bucilli's restaurant in West Branch, Michigan. One after another, all kinds of drug arrests happened up here. Old men, young woman, you name it. A barmaid I know was caught in a driveway getting ready to buy coke. A neighbor/daughter of a retired Detroit Police Officer. Whether I am right or wrong about the guy I called on is a mute point for me, but he's a dirtbag and it wouldn't surprise me in the least. No one Knew his last name, but everyone knew him. I spent months after my call trying to find out who this guy was. His own neighbors didn't even know his last name. He was thrown out of everybar within 20 miles of here. Time will tell.
ArizonaGiGi
01-04-2010, 01:48 PM
I'm checking back to see what's new. Nothing?!?! It's a New Year but somehow I don't think things will be any different with this case. Anybody know if the $160,000 reward is still good or did the oilmen and others not renew it?
XPA Magnet
01-04-2010, 06:13 PM
There is an entry on OSBI's website dated 12/16/09 that the full $160K was still being offered.
ArizonaGiGi
01-05-2010, 11:42 PM
There is an entry on OSBI's website dated 12/16/09 that the full $160K was still being offered.
Merci' magnet
I went to the website and see that it states that the two oilmen that contributed $50k and the anonymous donor of the $70k will use their discretion to distribute their portion of reward $$. Hmmm me thinks they are SMART
domesticmess
01-06-2010, 10:24 PM
Merci' magnet
I went to the website and see that it states that the two oilmen that contributed $50k and the anonymous donor of the $70k will use their discretion to distribute their portion of reward $$. Hmmm me thinks they are SMART
Are they smart or do they know something? What if someone who worked at that Oil Company knew that a relative in Weleetka might know something about it and knew that a reward might entice that person to talk.
Just a crazy thought I know, but I just want this case to be solved!
ArizonaGiGi
01-21-2010, 01:43 AM
Just posting because I can't stand it when weeks go by without any new posts for these two little girls.
SailorMoon
01-23-2010, 05:34 PM
$160K is a large reward...yet we seem as clueless as we ever were....why is that? Someone knows something. That much I am certain.
waltzingmatilda
01-24-2010, 01:53 PM
I have been absent for a bit during the holidays but it is great being back with you all. It warms me heart to see all of you sleuths who are dedicated to Taylor and Skyla are keeping the thread alive.
One of the cases I follow her is HaLeigh Cummings case and some developments in the case have occured the past few days. The strategy that LE is using in FL is interesting.
I surmise that PCSO realized that nobody would talk in the case because of a drug connection that is intertwined amongst many. I think they know Haleigh is dead so they realized that in order to learn what happened to Haleigh that they had to investigate the drug angle. They set up a sting and worked months infiltrating the ring. Five have been arrested so far on major drug charges including Haleigh's dad and step-mom. The pressure is on for someone to talk because they are facing long prison sentences.
Perhaps OSBI should consider another angle in solving these murders of Taylor and Skyla. They deserve justice.
All MOO..
wm
Ruflossn
01-24-2010, 06:50 PM
I have been absent for a bit during the holidays but it is great being back with you all. It warms me heart to see all of you sleuths who are dedicated to Taylor and Skyla are keeping the thread alive.
One of the cases I follow her is HaLeigh Cummings case and some developments in the case have occured the past few days. The strategy that LE is using in FL is interesting.
I surmise that PCSO realized that nobody would talk in the case because of a drug connection that is intertwined amongst many. I think they know Haleigh is dead so they realized that in order to learn what happened to Haleigh that they had to investigate the drug angle. They set up a sting and worked months infiltrating the ring. Five have been arrested so far on major drug charges including Haleigh's dad and step-mom. The pressure is on for someone to talk because they are facing long prison sentences.
Perhaps OSBI should consider another angle in solving these murders of Taylor and Skyla. They deserve justice.
All MOO..
wm
Hi WM,
Not long after Taylor and Skyla were murdered there was drug operation that had been undercover that went public. There were many people arrested. At the time, I thought the time line of the drug sting was interesting and had hopes that LE was using the sting to garner suspects in the girls murder. However, nothing related to the girls murders ever came from it. I will try and find a link to a news link to the story.
Flossie.
Ruflossn
01-24-2010, 08:09 PM
http://www.usmarshals.gov/falcon08/news_releases/061908-e-ok.htm
June 19, 2008
U.S. Marshals "Operation FALCON" Clears Over 490 Warrants in Muskogee
Muskogee, OK – In one of the largest fugitive initiatives ever undertaken in the Muskogee area, the U.S. Marshals, teamed with law enforcement agencies throughout eastern Oklahoma, arrested 290 fugitives and cleared 493 warrants during a recent week-long 10 county sweep. U.S. Marshals locally conducted another successful Operation FALCON (Federal and Local Cops Organized Nationally) from June 9-13, the fifth of its kind, here in Eastern Oklahoma. Operation FALCON is a fugitive apprehension operation combining the resources of federal, state, city and county law enforcement agencies to locate and apprehend criminals wanted for crimes of violence. The targets for this Operation FALCON were violent offenders, gang members and sex offenders.
Ruflossn
01-24-2010, 08:12 PM
http://www.usmarshals.gov/falcon08/facts.html
Facts and Figures
* 19,380 Total Arrests
* 1,096 persons wanted for sex crime offenses
* 388 gang members / associates
* 161 persons wanted for homicides
* 6,252 persons wanted for drug offenses
* 25,087 Warrants Cleared
* 418 Weapons Seized
* More Than 2,400 kg of Narcotics Seized
* More Than $1.5 million in Seized Cash
waltzingmatilda
01-25-2010, 10:57 AM
Thanks for all the wonderful info Flossie. Perhaps they hoped for a DNA match from all these arrests. Wasn't some DNA collected from the scene? Apparently there wasn't a match. Whoever killed the girls may simply not have an arrest record. Yet!
MOO
wm
little726
01-25-2010, 11:56 AM
Thanks for all the wonderful info Flossie. Perhaps they hoped for a DNA match from all these arrests. Wasn't some DNA collected from the scene? Apparently there wasn't a match. Whoever killed the girls may simply not have an arrest record. Yet!
MOO
wm
Hi Matilda. You said the magic word, "yet." I still hold on to hope that this case will be solved. It just has to be!
Ruflossn
01-25-2010, 01:57 PM
Thanks for all the wonderful info Flossie. Perhaps they hoped for a DNA match from all these arrests. Wasn't some DNA collected from the scene? Apparently there wasn't a match. Whoever killed the girls may simply not have an arrest record. Yet!
MOO
wm
DNA ~ It was reported that DNA had been recovered from the girls. It has never been stated what type of DNA. (blood, urine, semen, epithelial cells etc...) I believe there are a few possible scenarios for the DNA and lack of a match.
1) The perp(s) that killed Skyla and Taylor do not have criminal records where DNA was required to be entered into CODIS. I do believe the murderer(s) of the girls have criminal records but, the records may not be felonies where DNA is a requirement for submission.
or
2) The DNA that was recovered from the girls and / or the crime scene could be explained as "non-offender" DNA. Meaning the DNA that was collected came from family &/or friends so there was nothing unusual about the fact the girls would have 'foreign' DNA on their persons.
waltzingmatilda
01-26-2010, 08:55 AM
Flossie you typed exactly what I was thinking. I'm choosing both option 1 and 2!
Hey dear little, it's good seeing you!
little726
01-26-2010, 03:17 PM
Flossie you typed exactly what I was thinking. I'm choosing both option 1 and 2!
Hey dear little, it's good seeing you!:couch:
evelyn24
02-04-2010, 01:10 PM
This case still haunts me. I can't believe people would keep quiet when these two babies were gunned down like dogs in the street. Someone knows something, and is protecting someone.
little726
02-04-2010, 04:22 PM
this case still haunts me. I can't believe people would keep quiet when these two babies were gunned down like dogs in the street. Someone knows something, and is protecting someone.
pp!!!
sameole
02-04-2010, 09:58 PM
Northern District of Oklahoma June 02 - 07,
Eastern District of Oklahoma June 09 - 13
The day off that Falcon took seems to make more sense to me now considering the Whitaker kid. If you go on the site for Operation Falcon under Oklahoma, it lists these dates. June 8 th, day off.
ArizonaGiGi
02-09-2010, 09:21 AM
I wish Nancy Grace was interested in this case ala Casey Anthony and Hayleigh Cummings. With all the press it could have gotten I think she'da solved it by now and the killers would be on trial !!!
waltzingmatilda
02-09-2010, 01:34 PM
I wish Nancy Grace was interested in this case ala Casey Anthony and Hayleigh Cummings. With all the press it could have gotten I think she'da solved it by now and the killers would be on trial !!!
I know GiGi. I'm not a big fan of NG but at least she creates awareness. What a shame that national media hasn't updated this case regularly! You know why I think that is,...and this is just MOO....., but I think it's because there's no SCANDALOUS, attractive, young mom who has commited an unspeakable atrocity against their child. Not that these stories aren't sad but NG is ratings driven!!!!! and she's gonna follow the stories that deliver the ratings. That's how that business is.
However, if the news media would just look a little more closely, they might just find out that this crime involves scandal as well! We just don't know........
So sad for Taylor and Skyla.....
JMO, wm
GetSmart
02-14-2010, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by evelyn24 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
this case still haunts me. I can't believe people would keep quiet when these two babies were gunned down like dogs in the street. Someone knows something, and is protecting someone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel the exact same way......
I am wondering because Florida has the "Sunshine Law" is one of the reasons Nancy and her Kronies go on and on about certain cases. With Oklahoma being so hush hush it must be very hard on the media to extract info...
and.... it still bothers me me that in the beginning when the local LE was taken off the case and OSBI took over and snubbed all the help that was offered remember that .. when FBI offered ect.. I think finally they accepted some help but not much.
OK..... lighter note both Girls loved animals so much I thought this was a cute Valentine for them..
http://i49.tinypic.com/2m35tug.jpg
Happy Valentine's Day
Taylor & Skyla
k4kathy
02-19-2010, 11:23 AM
One of several things about this case that keeps popping into my head,is
the time frame.
The window of opportunity had to have been pretty small.
wfgodot
02-23-2010, 03:53 AM
Oklahoma can't solve crime....so it seeks tighter control of the press.
Bills on slaying details, municipal fees go to Oklahoma House
Published: February 23, 2010
...
House Bill 3155 was written because of concerns that too much information was released about last year’s slaying of an Anadarko pastor and the 2008 killings of two Weleetka-area girls, said the measure’s author, Rep. Leslie Osborn. Both cases remain unsolved.
The House Judiciary Committee passed the measure 10-1. It now goes to the full House.
"We are only talking about a few discretionary items that might be needed for pending criminal investigations,” said Osborn, R-Tuttle.
In the case of the Rev. Carol Daniels, who was killed and mutilated in August, most of the information would have been released, Osborn said.
But her measure would have allowed prosecutors or law officers to request that such details as singed scalp hair and the body being staged be withheld, Osborn said.
A similar measure failed to advance last year.
Mark Thomas, executive director of the Oklahoma Press Association, said the bill has several flaws.
The measure’s restrictions started out dealing only with homicides, but have expanded to include unknown and pending causes of death, he said.
The bill also doesn’t place a time limit on withholding the information, he said.
"It can be confidential forever,” Thomas said.
"There has to be some time limit when the public has a right to know about violent murders that were committed in their midst.”
...
RIDICULOUS
http://newsok.com/bills-on-slaying-details-municipal-fees-go-to-house/article/3441593
sameole
02-23-2010, 06:19 AM
Everyone's hero, Jessica Brown, originally posed this proposition based on the two weleetka girls. Just to let you know who they are talking about when they say "the measure did'nt pass" the first time around.
GetSmart
02-25-2010, 12:10 AM
I am still grateful that Fl has the SunShine Law.!!
I didn';t see this posted anywhere... interesting anyway..
LOOKS LIKE HE HAS THE TEAR DROP TAT !!!
Kinda .. but I thought this was close to home .
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12035204
Okmulgee Police Make Arrests In Stabbing Death
Posted: Feb 24, 2010 8:00 AM EST Updated: Feb 24, 2010 10:56 PM EST
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG1.jpg
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG1.jpg)33-year-old Jesse Johnson was discovered at his mother's Morris residence. [Okmulgee Police]
Enlarge this picture
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG2.jpg)23-year-old Phillip Johnson was also arrested in Morris.[Okmulgee Police]
Enlarge this picture
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG3.jpg)Billy McClellan Jr., also known as "Striker," turned himself in to Tribal Police.
NewsOn6.com
OKMULGEE, OK -- Okmulgee Police have arrested three men in connection with the murder of Rodney Thomas.
Police Chief Joe Prentice says 32-year-old Rodney Thomas had been stabbed when officers found him in an apartment late Tuesday night.
Thomas taken to an Okmulgee hospital where he was pronounced dead.
Police had identified two brothers as persons of interest in the case. Prentice say they want to question 33-year-old Jesse Johnson and 23-year-old Phillip Johnson. Billy McClellan Jr., also known as "Striker," was also a suspect.
Officers located Phillip and Jesse Johnson Wednesday at their mother's residence in Morris. McClellan turned himself in to Tribal Police later in the afternoon. All three have been booked in the Okmulgee County Jail on complaints of first degree murder.
Ruflossn
02-25-2010, 07:59 AM
I am still grateful that Fl has the SunShine Law.!!
I didn';t see this posted anywhere... interesting anyway..
LOOKS LIKE HE HAS THE TEAR DROP TAT !!!
Kinda .. but I thought this was close to home .
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12035204
Okmulgee Police Make Arrests In Stabbing Death
Posted: Feb 24, 2010 8:00 AM EST Updated: Feb 24, 2010 10:56 PM EST
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG1.jpg
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG1.jpg)33-year-old Jesse Johnson was discovered at his mother's Morris residence. [Okmulgee Police]
Enlarge this picture
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG2.jpg)23-year-old Phillip Johnson was also arrested in Morris.[Okmulgee Police]
Enlarge this picture
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12035204_BG3.jpg)Billy McClellan Jr., also known as "Striker," turned himself in to Tribal Police.
NewsOn6.com
OKMULGEE, OK -- Okmulgee Police have arrested three men in connection with the murder of Rodney Thomas.
Police Chief Joe Prentice says 32-year-old Rodney Thomas had been stabbed when officers found him in an apartment late Tuesday night.
Thomas taken to an Okmulgee hospital where he was pronounced dead.
Police had identified two brothers as persons of interest in the case. Prentice say they want to question 33-year-old Jesse Johnson and 23-year-old Phillip Johnson. Billy McClellan Jr., also known as "Striker," was also a suspect.
Officers located Phillip and Jesse Johnson Wednesday at their mother's residence in Morris. McClellan turned himself in to Tribal Police later in the afternoon. All three have been booked in the Okmulgee County Jail on complaints of first degree murder.
Hi GS~
I want to see this guys profile mug shot.
If you remember from the sketch, he had a distinctive profile.
When the witnesses reported their encounter (or lack thereof) with the man near the white truck, they stated he kept his head down or away from them. The witnesses even went so far as to say, they wondered if he was deaf due to his lack of acknowledgment of them. I wonder if it could be due to the POI having a tattoo on his face?
I was also told that someone near the scene of the crime had tear drop(s) tattoo(s) on his face. The person who shared this info w/ me is not a family member and is trust worthy. They had a conversation with this person. I will be curious to see how this perp plays out.
Thanks for the info!
BTW ~ I got your PM. We will soon be neighbors.
:)
Flossie
Boots-OK
02-25-2010, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the info, GS & RUF.
Just did a quick look-up and I believe Jesse Johnson was in prison on June 8, 2008:
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=234524&offender_book_id=125904
Boots-OK
02-25-2010, 10:47 AM
You can see all 3 of their current mugshots here:
http://okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com/InmateRoster.asp
ArizonaGiGi
02-25-2010, 02:22 PM
Patsys? I don't think they are. They don't look like the kind LE takes advantage of.
Wrote their own sentence when they stabbed this poor man.
The LE got it right this time IMO.
Note the tear drop tat under the eye.
little726
02-25-2010, 05:29 PM
Jesse Johnson, is 5'3" tall. Isn't the POI in Taylor and Skyla's case, 6' tall?
Missing Sarah
02-25-2010, 10:35 PM
Little, are you there..?
Missing Sarah
02-25-2010, 10:36 PM
Hello GiGi
ArizonaGiGi
02-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Hi MS and everybody else. so glad to see discussion about this case and a little chit chat in between.
I've been told that the P's old house is being torn down. That the inside's about finished being gutted. also that Marvin Lowe, the pedo-pastor, bonded out this week.
I keep going back to the JonBenet case and think if that wasn't solved then how could this case? I mean, PATSY WROTE THE NOTE, imo and if that isn't good enough evidence then what is! jmho
Boots-OK
02-26-2010, 05:05 PM
I was just going back and reading different news reports, watching videos, etc., that have been made public since the girls' murders.
This is a snippet from the June 8th, 2009, press conference by Jessica Brown:
"I don't know why a person with information might not come forward," said Brown, flanked by members of the little girls' families. "We are one piece of information away from making an arrest. We plead to them today to come forward."
BBM
I've always felt the one piece of information was the second gun. I believe the perp(s) are identified but they need the second gun to make the charges stick. All jmo
Full article at this link: http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=10494171
Additionally, based on the OSBI website press releases - the $160000 reward would have expired the end of January. I emailed them and asked what the status is now and suggested an update may be in order. :waitasec:
Regards to all the posters and guests who care deeply about Taylor and Skyla receiving justice.
Ruflossn
02-26-2010, 05:42 PM
Jesse Johnson, is 5'3" tall. Isn't the POI in Taylor and Skyla's case, 6' tall?
Hi Little ~
Yes, the POI that was described by witnesses described him as taller than 5'3". When I read the info on the jail website, I immediately had the same thought as you. These creeps were to short to have been the person described by the witnesses. Assuming the witnesses described the POI accurately.
Flossie
Ruflossn
02-26-2010, 06:25 PM
I was just going back and reading different news reports, watching videos, etc., that have been made public since the girls' murders.
This is a snippet from the June 8th, 2009, press conference by Jessica Brown:
"I don't know why a person with information might not come forward," said Brown, flanked by members of the little girls' families. "We are one piece of information away from making an arrest. We plead to them today to come forward."
BBM
I've always felt the one piece of information was the second gun. I believe the perp(s) are identified but they need the second gun to make the charges stick. All jmo
Full article at this link: http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=10494171
Additionally, based on the OSBI website press releases - the $160000 reward would have expired the end of January. I emailed them and asked what the status is now and suggested an update may be in order. :waitasec:
Regards to all the posters and guests who care deeply about Taylor and Skyla receiving justice.
Hi Boots ~
I remember this statement well. I always found it interesting that JB stated they were "one piece of information away from making an arrest". Note that she did not say, "we are one piece of evidence away from making an arrest". I think the 2nd gun would be a huge help in this investigation. I also believe OSBI knows there was a specific person at the scene of the crime, but they do not have forensic evidence to support their theory. All they need is one person to come forward and make a statement (give the OSBI information) and an arrest could be made.
OSBI has pleaded with someone to come forward ~ they used an emotional method when they played the 911 call. JB's comments at that press conference tried to emotionally sway someone into opening up about this case. It did not work.
In the June 9, 2009 press conference JB called the person who had not come forward a "coward". She was attempting to goad them into a reaction. It did not work.
Someone has info on the exact circumstances about the deaths of Skyla and Taylor but, whoever that "someone" is, they are not talking.
Now, you have to wonder why? Why would someone NOT want to bring justice to Skyla and Taylor?
Flossie
ArizonaGiGi
02-26-2010, 08:23 PM
respectfully snipped
"Someone has info on the exact circumstances about the deaths of Skyla and Taylor but, whoever that "someone" is, they are not talking.
Now, you have to wonder why? Why would someone NOT want to bring justice to Skyla and Taylor?"
Flossie[/quote]
My thoughts exactly RUf, exactly.
Skully
02-27-2010, 09:46 PM
respectfully snipped
"Someone has info on the exact circumstances about the deaths of Skyla and Taylor but, whoever that "someone" is, they are not talking.
Now, you have to wonder why? Why would someone NOT want to bring justice to Skyla and Taylor?"
Flossie
My thoughts exactly RUf, exactly.[/QUOTE]
Fear or Guilt would be my guess.
waltzingmatilda
02-28-2010, 08:37 AM
As time goes by, people change, move away, etc. Maybe eventually, someone will no longer feel threatened by whoever or whatever and come forth with the one piece of information needed to solve this case.
Justice for Taylor and Skyla!
OT This case is the reason I joined WS and met all of you fine sleuths. Taylor and Skyla will live in my heart forever. I'll never give up on them receiving the justice they deserve.
Ever!
wm
Ruflossn
02-28-2010, 11:27 AM
My thoughts exactly RUf, exactly.
Fear or Guilt would be my guess.[/QUOTE]
My opinion is, fear.
Fear is keeping someone from speaking the truth.
ArizonaGiGi
02-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Fear or Guilt would be my guess.
My opinion is, fear.
Fear is keeping someone from speaking the truth.[/quote]
Hi RUf Patsy Bern WM and everyone else
NIGHT after night I think there will be an arrest.
-Time goes on and still nothing. But my resolve for justice
Sharpens, and
-Heightens and makes me dig deeper and see more.
Each and every day and I have the sense and
-Sensation that an arrest is just around the corner. I believe!
EnvoyDriver61
02-28-2010, 07:25 PM
My opinion is, fear.
Fear is keeping someone from speaking the truth.
My opinion is misplaced parental love.
That emotional appeal was to a woman, IMO, specifically a mother.
I think LE truly believe a mother has specific information about her child that could help solve the case. It is someone who was or may be close to Taylor's mother too, IMO. To hear the grief she exhibited was pretty gut-wrenching.
Regarding the new OK law; my supposition is that LE should share ALL they know about the case and it would jog a memory or too. Primarily, I'd like to know who the younger voiced person was in the 911 tape.
Boots-OK
02-28-2010, 07:43 PM
Hello, Driver.
I believe the child in the 911 tape is probably a grandchild that lived with the P's at the time. JMO
ArizonaGiGi
02-28-2010, 07:57 PM
My opinion is misplaced parental love.
That emotional appeal was to a woman, IMO, specifically a mother.
I think LE truly believe a mother has specific information about her child that could help solve the case. It is someone who was or may be close to Taylor's mother too, IMO. To hear the grief she exhibited was pretty gut-wrenching.
Regarding the new OK law; my supposition is that LE should share ALL they know about the case and it would jog a memory or too. Primarily, I'd like to know who the younger voiced person was in the 911 tape.
I think more than one Mother may have information that could help. They may not realize what information they have and how important it is. I think LE is not listening to them nor taking them seriously. It must be so hard. Darkness Stirs and Wakes Imagination! I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I feel for them.
k4kathy
03-01-2010, 11:21 AM
My opinion is misplaced parental love.
That emotional appeal was to a woman, IMO, specifically a mother.
I think LE truly believe a mother has specific information about her child that could help solve the case. It is someone who was or may be close to Taylor's mother too, IMO. To hear the grief she exhibited was pretty gut-wrenching.
Regarding the new OK law; my supposition is that LE should share ALL they know about the case and it would jog a memory or too. Primarily, I'd like to know who the younger voiced person was in the 911 tape.
Envoy,I like the way you think
k4kathy
03-01-2010, 11:23 AM
Hello, Driver.
I believe the child in the 911 tape is probably a grandchild that lived with the P's at the time. JMO
Do you know how many people were living in the P home at the time of the murders?
Mojito
03-01-2010, 11:33 AM
I just got a new 'puter so have not checked this case in quite some time.
I am aghast that it is still an unsolved case. It is as if we are in the caveman times. Even a Neanderthall could solve this crime! Tonda? Tonda! Tonda~
ArizonaGiGi
03-01-2010, 05:36 PM
Do you know how many people were living in the P home at the time of the murders?
K, I don't think anyone really knows for certain but a delivery person told me that there was :
PP
VP
LKP
Jennifer
Chris and gal (his 2 kids were with them)
Jesse his gal (his 3 kids lived there)
One male cousin
One female friend with a small child
Of course Taylor
~Dang~ that's alot of ppl!
I was told that there were lots of visitors too. DD, Gaddy
I concur with most people here that the key is with the family.
ArizonaGiGi
03-01-2010, 05:38 PM
K4, I'll go through my emails and notes and see what I can find.
So glad I saved each and every p.m. message and email.
I guess that's what sleuthers do!
~ One never knows when they'll come in handy for something~
ArizonaGiGi
03-01-2010, 09:36 PM
I don't this guy has any connection to the case but I just couldn't help passing around his mugshot :eek:. Talk about Caveman!
http://okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com/PressArrestRelease.asp?itbSiteID=6&ArrestNo=2010000491
k4kathy
03-02-2010, 08:37 AM
i just got a new 'puter so have not checked this case in quite some time.
I am aghast that it is still an unsolved case. It is as if we are in the caveman times. Even a neanderthall could solve this crime! Tonda? Tonda! tonda~
how??????
k4kathy
03-02-2010, 08:57 AM
Taylor and Skyla should be getting ready for school right now.But that will never happen again thanks to the losers who murdered the girls.
I hope that the killers never have another moment of peace,happiness or contentment in their lives.Not until they come forward and confess.
IMO~ it's just a waiting game.Somebody's gonna rat on somebody.Maybe the first one to come forward won't get the death penalty
little726
03-02-2010, 09:37 AM
I don't this guy has any connection to the case but I just couldn't help passing around his mugshot :eek:. Talk about Caveman!
http://okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com/PressArrestRelease.asp?itbSiteID=6&ArrestNo=2010000491
My goodness. Now HE's scary!
Since we're doing mugshots, here's a guy I came acrossed yesterday. He's from Salisaw, the same town Christopher P. is from.
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=461036&offender_book_id=268484
It says he is in jail, but there is a warrant for his arrest.
Pay close attention to his profile pictures. He has that "slouched" look, like the POI. He's also, very dangerous!
little726
03-02-2010, 09:42 AM
He is also a registered SO:http://www.sallisawpolice.org/html/sex_offenders.html
http://www.sequoyahcountysheriff.org/violoff.php
His crime:http://sequoyahcountytimes.com/view/full_story/592514/article-Man-s-throat-slashed--car-stolen?
ArizonaGiGi
03-03-2010, 09:40 AM
Little, fantastic find!!! This guy actually looks a lot like the POI.
In #9 mugshot he has that slumped look just like the POI poster!
His hair is pretty long in 2006, two years later it could have been much longer. AND he has tattoos all down his arms. A good reason to wear long sleeves on a hot Summer day in Weleetka OK.
I wonder if he had a white pick up truck or has any arrests for meth?
Tattoos: left shoulder - Indian
warrior above a flaming
dreamcatcher; inside left lower
arm - looks like textbook view
of muscles and bone; right
elbow - spiderweb radiating
from the elbow; right arm
below the elbow, tribal art
going around the arm; right
arm inside the elbow - Indian
warrior; right upper arm - seal
of the Cherokee Nation
surrounded by flames and
above a spiderweb atop a
winged heart. *Note* all
tattoos are in black and white.
little726
03-03-2010, 09:50 AM
Little, fantastic find!!! This guy actually looks a lot like the POI.
In #9 mugshot he has that slumped look just like the POI poster!
His hair is pretty long in 2006, two years later it could have been much longer. AND he has tattoos all down his arms. A good reason to wear long sleeves on a hot Summer day in Weleetka OK.
I wonder if he had a white pick up truck or has any arrests for meth?
Tattoos: left shoulder - Indian
warrior above a flaming
dreamcatcher; inside left lower
arm - looks like textbook view
of muscles and bone; right
elbow - spiderweb radiating
from the elbow; right arm
below the elbow, tribal art
going around the arm; right
arm inside the elbow - Indian
warrior; right upper arm - seal
of the Cherokee Nation
surrounded by flames and
above a spiderweb atop a
winged heart. *Note* all
tattoos are in black and white.
Gigi, I have not found any traffic records on him. Even finding any drug arrests is hard. But, I'm sure he has some. He really likes to hurt people!
Also, one of the police reports state his hair is shaved on the sides.
wfgodot
03-03-2010, 09:55 AM
I still have trouble believing this to be a motiveless crime, which is why I've long thought that the answer must be much closer to home; I suppose it just disturbs my sense of order that a person could have left the highway, found the road and the two girls, and shot them down for very little or no reason at all. It all seemed a little too pat that the POI sketch would be of a Native American - a "bad Indian," one who, as in a stereotype, appeared stealthily, killed, then disappeared almost without a trace save for the one sighting which led to the sketch.
But stranger things have happened, and my notion of an ordered universe may, too, be an illusion.
k4kathy
03-03-2010, 11:36 AM
I still have trouble believing this to be a motiveless crime, which is why I've long thought that the answer must be much closer to home; I suppose it just disturbs my sense of order that a person could have left the highway, found the road and the two girls, and shot them down for very little or no reason at all. It all seemed a little too pat that the POI sketch would be of a Native American - a "bad Indian," one who, as in a stereotype, appeared stealthily, killed, then disappeared almost without a trace save for the one sighting which led to the sketch.
But stranger things have happened, and my notion of an ordered universe may, too, be an illusion.
If there were a way to make your post look like a blinking neon sign,I would do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ArizonaGiGi
03-03-2010, 03:01 PM
He is also a registered SO:http://www.sallisawpolice.org/html/sex_offenders.html
http://www.sequoyahcountysheriff.org/violoff.php
His crime:http://sequoyahcountytimes.com/view/full_story/592514/article-Man-s-throat-slashed--car-stolen?
Looks like he was locked up on 6/8/2008
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=461036&offender_book_id=268484
Ruflossn
03-03-2010, 04:19 PM
If there were a way to make your post look like a blinking neon sign,I would do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blinking, Neon sign with firecrackers erupting every 5 minutes!
Ruflossn
03-03-2010, 04:23 PM
I still have trouble believing this to be a motiveless crime, which is why I've long thought that the answer must be much closer to home; I suppose it just disturbs my sense of order that a person could have left the highway, found the road and the two girls, and shot them down for very little or no reason at all. It all seemed a little too pat that the POI sketch would be of a Native American - a "bad Indian," one who, as in a stereotype, appeared stealthily, killed, then disappeared almost without a trace save for the one sighting which led to the sketch.
But stranger things have happened, and my notion of an ordered universe may, too, be an illusion.
Hi wfgodot,
I think the Native American described by locals may not have been the actual murderer. More like an accessory to murder. Meaning he was present when the girls were shot, may have even provided a weapon but, did not actually "pull the trigger".
I am still searching for the book on the Girl Scout murders. Still no luck. UGH.
Flossie
little726
03-03-2010, 04:29 PM
Looks like he was locked up on 6/8/2008
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=461036&offender_book_id=268484
CRAP!!! I was thinking he was out because of the warrant.
Sorry. Back to looking.
wfgodot
03-03-2010, 05:12 PM
Hi wfgodot,
I think the Native American described by locals may not have been the actual murderer. More like an accessory to murder. Meaning he was present when the girls were shot, may have even provided a weapon but, did not actually "pull the trigger".
I am still searching for the book on the Girl Scout murders. Still no luck. UGH.
Flossie
Hi Flossie,
Actually, the first thing that went through my mind after I saw the sketch, way back when, was, "Whomever provided that information is the one who should be looked at closely in the murders" - not probably as the actual killer(s) but as someone who very possibly knew what happened that day, and was providing cover to the real perpetrator(s) by muddying the waters and providing an elusive "person of interest," someone much sought-after but never to be found. Just a guess.
Least expensive copy of "Someone Cry for the Children" on BookFinder.com is still $34.00. Ouch, too much!
Mysterylover
03-04-2010, 01:39 PM
K, I don't think anyone really knows for certain but a delivery person told me that there was :
PP
VP
LKP
Jennifer
Chris and gal (his 2 kids were with them)
Jesse his gal (his 3 kids lived there)
One male cousin
One female friend with a small child
Of course Taylor
~Dang~ that's alot of ppl!
I was told that there were lots of visitors too. DD, Gaddy
I concur with most people here that the key is with the family....
16 people living in a 2 bedroom house?
Is this correct?
I just don't understand why the girls had went 8+ hours with nothing to eat with ALL those adults around there.
terry67401
03-05-2010, 03:26 AM
Hello all. I'm new to the WS community, but not to this tragic case. As of yet, I have not read through all of those posts, but I am doing so at this time. These threads sure have intrigued me and let me to some questions of my own.
Now, I don't know if it has been addressed within these threads, but I have noticed a lot of talk surrounding a drug connection. That in mind, I came across a news article at NewsOk.com that had a quote from LE stating that while combing through the area around the crime scene, that a number of methamphetamine labs were discovered within 7 to 8 miles from the scene. Is it a plausable theory that perhaps the girls came upon something that they shouldn't have?? I shudder to think that someone would savagely gun down two children over drugs, but there are some sick people in this world.
Now, I've read the posts pertaining to the Whitaker's son being involved with drugs as well and I certainly wouldn't discount a connection there, but that would mean the perp would to have had knowledge of Skyla being at Taylor's home that day.
There are certainly a lot of questions and mysteries surrounding this horrific crime and I would love to see the perps brought to justice. May God truly be with the girls' families through all this. I cannot imagine the pain they have experienced and I sincerely hope they get justice for the girls!!
Ruflossn
03-05-2010, 04:49 PM
16 people living in a 2 bedroom house?
Is this correct?
I just don't understand why the girls had went 8+ hours with nothing to eat with ALL those adults around there.
Hi Mysterylover,
On the day the girls were killed, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers residence.
Flossie
Ruflossn
03-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Tomorrow, March 6th would have been Taylor Plackers birthday.
:(
waltzingmatilda
03-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Hello all. I'm new to the WS community, but not to this tragic case. As of yet, I have not read through all of those posts, but I am doing so at this time. These threads sure have intrigued me and let me to some questions of my own.
Now, I don't know if it has been addressed within these threads, but I have noticed a lot of talk surrounding a drug connection. That in mind, I came across a news article at NewsOk.com that had a quote from LE stating that while combing through the area around the crime scene, that a number of methamphetamine labs were discovered within 7 to 8 miles from the scene. Is it a plausable theory that perhaps the girls came upon something that they shouldn't have?? I shudder to think that someone would savagely gun down two children over drugs, but there are some sick people in this world.
Now, I've read the posts pertaining to the Whitaker's son being involved with drugs as well and I certainly wouldn't discount a connection there, but that would mean the perp would to have had knowledge of Skyla being at Taylor's home that day.
There are certainly a lot of questions and mysteries surrounding this horrific crime and I would love to see the perps brought to justice. May God truly be with the girls' families through all this. I cannot imagine the pain they have experienced and I sincerely hope they get justice for the girls!!
:Welcome-12-june:
Terry67401, Welcome to WS. I am glad you are here. Please continue to contribute to the threads. Fresh ideas and opinions are always welcome here.
wm
ArizonaGiGi
03-08-2010, 04:03 PM
16 people living in a 2 bedroom house?
Is this correct?
I just don't understand why the girls had went 8+ hours with nothing to eat with ALL those adults around there.
Mystery I don't understand it either. Seems to me like they would have had at least a little something to eat that day.
Ruflossn
03-08-2010, 08:54 PM
I keep feeling like there is more that I can do to help but what? I've decided to mail a reminder postcard to OSBI every single day. It only costs me 28 cents per day for the stamp and I figure they can't forget as easily if there is a constant reminder in the mail. A phone call is free and just as effect imo. If anyone else wants to contact OSBI their address is:
6600 North Harvey Pl
Okla City, OK 73116
AGigi ~ Mailing a post card is an excellent idea. For those that may not want to send a snail mail post card, below is the e-mail address for OSBI. It is the e-mail addy for tips but, imo, it will suffice for an address to send reminders about this case.
tips@osbi.ok.gov <tips@osbi.ok.gov>
Flossie
Ruflossn
03-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Ruf, since you seem to know that there were not 16 people living there then how many were there? I don't really expect you to answer or you would have answered MysteryLover already. Just making my point that if you KNOW how many were NOT there then you must KNOW how many WERE there. Why won't you tell MysteryLover and the rest of us who love Taylor and Skyla and want the killers to be brought to justice???????
Hi Agigi~
I was unaware that MysteryLover asked how many people were living at the Plackers the day Skyla and Taylor were killed. IIRC, she simply inquired if the post stating there were 16 people living at the Plackers was correct. Maybe I misread her post? Whatever the case, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers the day the girls were killed. If you choose to believe my info, that is great. If you choose not to believe my info. that is fine also. Whatever the case maybe, on the day Skyla and Taylor were murdered, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers .
Have a great week and maybe one day this case will be solved.
I sure hope so.
Flossie
IBsleuthin
03-09-2010, 12:06 AM
I'm not sure but I think this is my first post on here. I joined quite awhile ago but spend my time on another forum which has gotten out of hand so I came back over here.
This case just hangs in the air and I was amazed at how quickly it went cold. I'm trying to read through all these posts but I am wondering if someone has a link to any new information? Thank you in advance.
P.S. for what it's worth there seems to be a better class of posters on this site.
(I see now that I have posted 3 other times before).
little726
03-09-2010, 09:15 AM
AGigi ~ Mailing a post card is an excellent idea. For those that may not want to send a snail mail post card, below is the e-mail address for OSBI. It is the e-mail addy for tips but, imo, it will suffice for an address to send reminders about this case.
tips@osbi.ok.gov <tips@osbi.ok.gov>
Flossie
Is the above link working now? I know in the beginning, any email sent would come back, undeliverable.
ArizonaGiGi
03-09-2010, 12:12 PM
Hi Agigi~
I was unaware that MysteryLover asked how many people were living at the Plackers the day Skyla and Taylor were killed. IIRC, she simply inquired if the post stating there were 16 people living at the Plackers was correct. Maybe I misread her post? Whatever the case, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers the day the girls were killed. If you choose to believe my info, that is great. If you choose not to believe my info. that is fine also. Whatever the case maybe, on the day Skyla and Taylor were murdered, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers .
Have a great week and maybe one day this case will be solved.
I sure hope so.
Flossie
I have come to wonder if there wasn't an affair going on and the spouses caught on. Did a spouse come for revenge but the girls were the revenge. In the wrong place at the wrong time and totally innocent but a spur of the moment decision to shoot them? What better pain to cause a parent than to harm their kids. Happens all the time anymore. Just a thought.
I talked to Det Titsworth recently again he said they had a tip just 9 days ago that was new information and very reliable. We'll see if it pans out. Cross fingers toes and eyes.
Boots-OK
03-09-2010, 12:22 PM
I emailed OSBI 2 weeks ago and asked what the status is of the $160K reward. I also requested they update their OSBI press release site with the information. So far - nothing. The increased reward expired January 28th - based on their website. Very frustrating.
snipped
10/27/09 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Large Reward Renewed in Weleetka Girls' Murder Case
The substantial reward announced in July of $160,000 .00 in the Weleetka Girls’ murder case will be renewed for another 90 days starting Wednesday, October 28th.
link:http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2009_Press_Releases/PR-2009-10-27__LARGE_REWARD_RENEWED_IN_WELEETKA_GIRLS'_MURDER _CASE.html
Kimster
03-09-2010, 12:38 PM
ATTENTION!
First of all, I did not remove any posts regarding information on this case.
Secondly, we need to stay focused on the case and not each other.
Thank you!
Warning over - carry on! :wink:
Ruflossn
03-09-2010, 02:16 PM
Is the above link working now? I know in the beginning, any email sent would come back, undeliverable.
Hi Little~
I sent OSBI an e-mail to the account that you had problems with.
So far, it has not been returned to me as 'undeliverable".
If it does, I will be certain to let you know.
Flossie
OneLove
03-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Hi Agigi~
I was unaware that MysteryLover asked how many people were living at the Plackers the day Skyla and Taylor were killed. IIRC, she simply inquired if the post stating there were 16 people living at the Plackers was correct. Maybe I misread her post? Whatever the case, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers the day the girls were killed. If you choose to believe my info, that is great. If you choose not to believe my info. that is fine also. Whatever the case maybe, on the day Skyla and Taylor were murdered, there were not 16 people living at the Plackers . Have a great week and maybe one day this case will be solved.
I sure hope so.
Flossie
Would you be so kind as to tell us if there were 12, 14, 10, 6, or however many there were ON THAT DAY? And how long had it been since there HAD been 16 people living there?
Ruflossn
03-09-2010, 03:44 PM
Would you be so kind as to tell us if there were 12, 14, 10, 6, or however many there were ON THAT DAY? And how long had it been since there HAD been 16 people living there?
Hi OneLove~
For your 1st question, "Would you be so kind as to tell us if there were 12, 14, 10, 6, or however many there were ON THAT DAY'?
I am not comfortable stating how many people were living at the Plackers on the day Skyla and Taylor were murdered. That would be a question best answered by one of the family members or LE. I can say without a doubt there were not 16 people residing at the Plackers on the day the girls were killed.
As for your 2nd question, "how long had it been since there HAD been 16 people living there"? I have no idea. I am only aware of the fact there were not 16 people living at P's home on the day Skyla and Taylor were murdered. The past family history / information of who lived where, is not something I am privy to.
Ruflossn
wfgodot
03-09-2010, 04:09 PM
Wow, hadn't clicked on Topix/Weleetka for a month of Sundays. It's up to 863 pages/17,249 comments ("and counting"). Read a few pages, and my hair turned grayer; a lively discussion board - that's the best spin I can put on it.
First comment atop p.863 pretty well sums up the certainty of the public's knowledge about our case: "Honey, if you will read back from the beginning on this thread nothing is a given."
I'll say! Honey, nothing's a given.
k4kathy
03-10-2010, 09:41 AM
Weleetka Topix is mostly all trash.I don't waste my time posting there anymore.I do on occasion drop in and do some reading....always hoping that one of the regulars posting there might get tanked up enough to post some pertinent information.
k4kathy
03-16-2010, 09:36 AM
We gotta get the ball rolling here guys ! Keep these threads hopping .
GetSmart
03-20-2010, 12:46 AM
First off terry67401 Welcome ....
If you go to the top of this thread and use the search button ....OMG will you have a about a months worth of reading about the debate of the girls stumbling upon a drug deal or meth lab while on their walk. In the very beginning a LE officer even mentioned that ..then poof local LE was no longer really in charge of case ..very odd if u ask me. there was also alot of speculation about gangs but the best yet will be found in the family thread in regards to the Uncle and his past so much family info and jail info past and current in that family thread. A lot of sleuthing and hard digging has been done on this case by our faithful members.
sometimes I go back and re-read thinking that perhaps looking at info again will bring new ideas...
I Keep praying that this will be solved..
Ruflossn
03-21-2010, 03:01 PM
First off terry67401 Welcome ....
If you go to the top of this thread and use the search button ....OMG will you have a about a months worth of reading about the debate of the girls stumbling upon a drug deal or meth lab while on their walk. In the very beginning a LE officer even mentioned that ..then poof local LE was no longer really in charge of case ..very odd if u ask me. there was also alot of speculation about gangs but the best yet will be found in the family thread in regards to the Uncle and his past so much family info and jail info past and current in that family thread. A lot of sleuthing and hard digging has been done on this case by our faithful members.
sometimes I go back and re-read thinking that perhaps looking at info again will bring new ideas...
I Keep praying that this will be solved..
HI GS~
I also go back and re-read some of the earlier posts and opinions. On my more industrious days, I have tried to go through the posts and review what we know to be true -vs- what we thought was true. Meaning, in the beginning of this case, there was a lot of speculating and hypothesizing. Now, almost 2 years later :( we know a lot of the speculating was not true. I wish we could somehow come up with a way to list all the facts that we know to be true and weed out those things that are not. It is a daunting task for sure.
Flossie
GetSmart
03-24-2010, 10:45 PM
Oh boy you are so right there ..... a lot of speculation that was not correct at all. Do we have a facts thread?
SailorMoon
03-25-2010, 12:30 AM
Here we are -- approaching May and another soon to be year gone by. Who the heck killed these girls??? So sad...
Boots-OK
04-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Oh my goodness!! OSBI's handling of the search for little Aja Johnson is certainly being criticized. Reports such as this cause concern related to how effective they have been or will be in solving the murders of our Taylor and Skyla, IMO:
~snipped~
Rep. Richard Morrissette, D-Oklahoma City, said the OSBI didn't handle the investigation well.
"This agency is insulated from public scrutiny, and I'm beginning to wonder if that's a serious concern here," Morrissette said.
"I think we need a full-fledged report on this investigation, day by day, what was going on in their agency to find Hobbs. He was right under our nose."
Full article here: http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/default/article/OSBI-defends-investigation-in-case-of-missing-girl-430390.php#page-2
wfgodot
04-01-2010, 03:22 PM
OSBI could start by jettisoning its "spokesperson," and save the state $$$ in the process. Also, I think that Aja, like Taylor and Skyla, was in the wrong socio-economic class to attract active investigation by OK officials.
Boots-OK
04-01-2010, 03:35 PM
OSBI could start by jettisoning its "spokesperson," and save the state $$$ in the process. Also, I think that Aja, like Taylor and Skyla, was in the wrong socio-economic class to attract active investigation by OK officials.
Hello, wfgodot - I agree with your post. Many of us have questioned the OSBI's integrity for almost 2 years now. But, when you see how they are accused of bumbling the search for little Aja - it brings back so many things that just haven't "seemed right" about our girls' murder investigation.
You are probably correct in that the victims' socio-economic class has had something to do with the less than stellar performance by those who pledge to protect and serve. Isn't that a sad statement on mankind?
And - Monday would have been little Skyla's 13th birthday. It's difficult to find encouraging words for her family.
wfgodot
04-01-2010, 05:22 PM
Yep. All sad but all likely true. It's so disheartening that I haven't even been following all the fuss kicked up by this most recent case. I'm sure the powers that be will "explain" their way out of it. Always works that way in OK, sad to say.
Ruflossn
04-02-2010, 11:00 PM
http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/default/article/OSBI-defends-investigation-in-case-of-missing-girl-430390.php#page-2
"This agency is insulated from public scrutiny, and I'm beginning to wonder if that's a serious concern here," Morrissette said.
The above bolded / underlined words are the exact ones I have thought myself. The OSBI is not held accountable for their actions. They are insulated from public scrutiny. I have sent e-mails to the OSBI website and have never gotten one reply. Isn't it common courtesy to at least respond once in 6 months? Now they are trying to stop the press from having access to autopsy reports. I have quit following that story. What is the use of keeping current on events that involve the OSBI? The OSBI and the powers that be will twist and turn things so that any story released will make them look spotless and worthy of praise.
When Skyla and Taylor were murdered. I had faith that OSBI would handle the case in a professional and well articulated manner. I no longer feel that way.
I have recently been accepted into a professional organization of criminal profilers. (I am not a profiler but due to my educational background and the fact that I am currently taking classes in profiling, I was accepted into the organization) The one thing that the fellow members have taught me is that it is very important that someone "police the police" Meaning, the beat cops, the detectives, the CSI employees and the crime lab technicians. (To name a few). No one is above answering to a higher authority.
What I want to know is who does the OSBI answer to?
Who makes sure the OSBI is following every tip and lead on every case?
Who makes sure systems are in place?
Who makes sure systems are being followed?
Now as for the socio-economic status of Skyla, Taylor and Aja. The fact that the very publicly viewed crimes shows (Nancy Grace etc....) did not cover the cases in great detail, speaks volumes.
Boots-OK
04-03-2010, 02:05 AM
Here's even more information regarding OSBI's refusing help from the FBI on the search for Aja:
~Snipped~
FBI, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation differ on handling of Aja Johnson search
BY RON JACKSON Published: April 2, 2010
EDMOND — The FBI offered the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation the assistance of its Child Abduction Response Team in the search for 7-year-old Aja Johnson, but their proposal was declined, FBI spokesman Gary Johnson said Thursday.
04/02/2010 LAWTON — In the abduction case of Aja Johnson, where every minute possibly meant the difference between life and death, the relatives of her abductor...
"We offered our assistance,” Johnson said.
"That offer was declined. I don’t know why, but we were disappointed and frustrated our offer for assistance was declined.”
The Child Abduction Response Team is composed of special agents from across the nation who are experienced in such cases.
Johnson said the team is on call 24 hours a day and can be flown in at any time to assist local agencies with abduction cases.
Read more: http://www.newsok.com/fbi-oklahoma-state-bureau-of-investigation-differ-on-handling-of-aja-johnson-search/article/3450835?custom_click=headlines_widget#ixzz0k0tZjE6 9
OSBI refused the FBI's assistance in Taylor & Skyla's murders also. There were several reports of other exemplarary law enforcement officials that offered to assist and were not welcomed. It has been reported that Scotland Yard offered to assist and were told they weren't needed. I really don't understand what OSBI must have been thinking about when they refused the help of good investigators and specialists in their fieldl.
waltzingmatilda
04-03-2010, 12:17 PM
Maybe we should begin tracking cases that OSBI has actually solved in recent years as opposed to the count of the unsolved cases. But there's a thread for that IIRC.
I just don't understand WHY OSBI would turn down help from legitimate agencies. Is the agency so insular that 'outsiders' are not welcome? And if so, why? Corruption? Arrogance? Narrowmindedness?
I often wonder if the families fear is not fear of the murderer, but of LE. Does anyone know if LE in the community have a corrupt reputation? Just asking because OSBI stated that they lack ONE piece of evidence to solve the case. What is this one piece of the puzzle they lack? I infer they mean they are waiting for someone to come forward and talk and this 'someone' hasn't done so.
Taylor and Skyla should be celebrating Skyla's b'day on Monday. Taylor should be going on double dates at 15. Their families should have closure by now. But it seems OSBI isn't searching for the oONE piece of evidence they lack. On the contrary, they seem to be sitting back on their haunches hoping that someone will do the job for them. But how could they since OSBI alienates every agency that comes forth and offers help?
Sorry to seem so critical of OSBI because I supported them in the beginning, trusting that they would solve the case. But no longer....this has gone on for too long.
All Moo and my frustration that Taylor and Skyla don't seem to be a priority for this agency. Sooo what are their priorities I wonder.
wm (shaking head in disgust)
waltzingmatilda
04-03-2010, 01:10 PM
Is is just me or does OSBI agent Goss seem a bit defensive in the article that boots linked above?
I read Aja's thread and peeps there are STEAMED! Many are emailing the representative (sorry can't remember his name) supporting an inquiry into the agency. And he IS responding back by e-mail......unlike OSBI who doesn't respond to tips at all.
wm
Boots-OK
04-03-2010, 02:08 PM
Is is just me or does OSBI agent Goss seem a bit defensive in the article that boots linked above?
I read Aja's thread and peeps there are STEAMED! Many are emailing the representative (sorry can't remember his name) supporting an inquiry into the agency. And he IS responding back by e-mail......unlike OSBI who doesn't respond to tips at all.
wm
Hello, WM - so good to read you as always.
I just have to put my 2 cents in on a few of your comments:
You asked what is OSBI's problem? (not exact words) The first thing that comes to my mind is Arrogance. I have personally attended a JB press conference and arrogance best describes her overall demeanor and what I felt she came across with. Yes, arrogance with an ample side of indifference.
Support for OSBI - I also supported them initially and wanted to give them every benefit of every doubt. But, time's up for me on patience. Learning that someone, other than us sleuths on the web, find their skills and decisions questionable is disconcerting.
I'm pleased that someone is speaking out about the OSBI. I'm sorry that it took the loss of another child (Aja) to get someone's attention.
Responding to emails adds credence to anyone in a position to help make things happen. I'm still waiting on my email requests to OSBI to update the reward information that expired over 2 months ago. Nuff said, I suppose.
Boots-OK
04-03-2010, 02:48 PM
Thanks to White Hawk on Aja's Thread - The Oklahoma State Representative is Richard Morrissette. His email address is:
richardmorrissette@okhouse.gov
I have copied the email I just sent to him FYI:
Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:32 PM To: richardmorrissette@okhouse.gov
SUBJ: OSBI
Hello, Sir~
I'm emailing you to express my concern over the OSBI's ineffectiveness at solving horrible crimes. Specifically, for me, the Weleetka girls' murders.
I've followed this case for almost 2 years, attended press conferences, etc., and there are many questions that need to be answered by the Bureau regarding this crime.
They could begin by updating the reward information that expired over 2 months ago. I have repeatedly emailed and requested they update their site - but, they don't even acknowledge my requests.
I'm very pleased that you are asking some serious questions regarding little Aja. Perhaps, you can ask a few regarding the brutal murders of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whitaker. Monday would have been Skyla's 13th birthday and Taylor's birthday was last month. Some current news regarding their case would be very welcome for many people who care - but, especially their families.
Thank you very much,
waltzingmatilda
04-03-2010, 03:18 PM
Boots Thank you for your response and for posting the link. You composed a great letter to Rep Morrissette. Please keep us posted. I'll bet you get a response.
I have lots going on today due to the holiday but will send an e-mail on Monday to support the cause.....and in honor of Skyla's birthday.!
wm
Ruflossn
04-03-2010, 03:39 PM
I am so thankful for the address to Rep. Morrissette.
As soon as I return home, I will also be sending an e-mail.
Thanks to Boots for providing the link.
little726
04-03-2010, 03:56 PM
You can add me to the list. I will be sending an email shortly.
Thanks, Boots!
Hi, WM and Ruff.
Boots-OK
04-03-2010, 06:15 PM
It's probably safe to assume that Representative Morrissette doesn't know the details of this case like we do. Maybe we could compose a list of "basic" questions to email that he could ask OSBI about this case. Here's my top ones to start off with:
1) Why didn't OSBI ask for/accept outside help at the beginning from FBI and others?
2) Why was the road graded?
3) Why did the local sheriff say they had suspects but OSBI said they didn't?
I'm sure I'll think of others in the next few days.
Ruflossn
04-03-2010, 10:21 PM
It's probably safe to assume that Representative Morrissette doesn't know the details of this case like we do. Maybe we could compose a list of "basic" questions to email that he could ask OSBI about this case. Here's my top ones to start off with:
1) Why didn't OSBI ask for/accept outside help at the beginning from FBI and others?
2) Why was the road graded?
3) Why did the local sheriff say they had suspects but OSBI said they didn't?
I'm sure I'll think of others in the next few days.
Great idea Boots. :clap:
4) Why did they not release an offender profile of the type of person(s) that would have most likely committed the murders against the girls?
In the murder of Pastor Carol Daniels, (Anadarko) they had an FBI profiler submit a profile of the perp. I can not remember if the FBI report was made public but, there were other profiles that were released by the media. (B. Turvey adjunct professor of OKC University) Why did they not do the same for Skyla and Taylor?
Hi Little :)
GetSmart
04-04-2010, 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Boots-OK http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
It's probably safe to assume that Representative Morrissette doesn't know the details of this case like we do. Maybe we could compose a list of "basic" questions to email that he could ask OSBI about this case. Here's my top ones to start off with:
1) Why didn't OSBI ask for/accept outside help at the beginning from FBI and others?
2) Why was the road graded?
3) Why did the local sheriff say they had suspects but OSBI said they didn't?
I'm sure I'll think of others in the next few days.
Those have been the burning questions from the beginning.....
I know we have touched on this before but if only OKlahoma had the "Sunshine Law" like Florida we might of gotten somewhere by now...JMO
GetSmart
04-04-2010, 01:44 AM
And this is another thing that has bugged me !!!!
Also remember they said at one time after the the cross defacing they had set up a camera and it was destroyed.. Why was nothing ever done about that ....
-----------
Taunting note scrawled on cross at slain Weleetka girls' memorial
By MATT BARNARD
World Staff Writer
7/16/2008
A message scrawled on a cross at a roadside memorial for two slain girls was likely written by pranksters and isn’t being treated as a serious lead, an official said.
A vandal wrote “something to the effect of ‘you’ll never catch me,’ ” Jessica Brown, a spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, said Wednesday.
The cross was one of several at the makeshift memorial for Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, who were both shot several times as they walked down a rural road about three miles northwest of Weleetka.
“We believe kids did it, vandalized it to get attention, which is exactly what happened,” Brown said.
Investigators seized the cross but aren’t pursuing the message as a legitimate lead, she said.
Flowers, balloons and stuffed animals mark the spot where the girls were killed June 8. Since then, there have been no arrests, suspects or motive.
Even fingerprints on the cross wouldn’t be useful to investigators, Brown said. “Hundreds of people have probably touched it, so I don’t know that anything can be done with it,” she said.
The OSBI followed hundreds of leads after releasing a sketch of a “person of interest” in June, but none led to a suspect.
Although investigators are focused on finding a killer rather than the defaced memorial, the vandalism is disheartening, Brown said.
“It’s a sad state of affairs when someone is going to deface a cross representing children who were killed,” she said.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/arti...6_1__Amess80543 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080716_1__Amess80543)
LadyD'enah
04-04-2010, 02:25 AM
A message scrawled on a cross at a roadside memorial for two slain girls was likely written by pranksters and isn’t being treated as a serious lead, an official said.
A vandal wrote “something to the effect of ‘you’ll never catch me,’ ” Jessica Brown, a spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, said Wednesday.
Snipped.
Some people disgust me. I have been following this case for a while now, and the fact that some people find it amusing, fun, etc to taunt the family of a couple of slain children, I find disgusting. :furious:
waltzingmatilda
04-04-2010, 11:23 AM
Snipped.
Some people disgust me. I have been following this case for a while now, and the fact that some people find it amusing, fun, etc to taunt the family of a couple of slain children, I find disgusting. :furious:
:Welcome-12-june:
LadyD'enah, I am pleased you joined WS and hope you continue to participate in the thread. We have a good group of sleuths here who are dedicated to bringing justice for Taylor and Skyla.
OT Hope you all have a nice Easter.:boing:
Boots-OK
04-09-2010, 12:26 AM
Thanks to RUFlossn for posting this in the media link and calling our attention to it:
snipped
OSBI spokeswoman Jessica Brown served as the sole speaker during the half-hour event, issuing six pages of color-coded pie charts and graphics that she said outlined the agency’s "great success.” The charts — void of any specific breakdown of homicide cases — covered the past five years and showed the agency’s claim in percentages, such as its 83.7 percent homicide clearance rate in 2009 and its 96 percent homicide clearance rate in 2005.
The national homicide clearance rate is 63.6 percent, according to the FBI’s most recent annual report.
"As you see, our numbers are way above the state and national levels,” Brown said. "Unfortunately, not every homicide case is solvable. … We get the most difficult cases. We don’t get the smoking guns. We get the decomposing bodies in the creek bed.”
‘They control the numbers’
Not everyone was impressed by OSBI’s data.
"I don’t believe those numbers,” said Dick Frye, a private investigator from Norman who attended the news conference. "Those are their numbers. It’s not like you can corroborate them. They control the numbers. … Those numbers just don’t happen in reality. We had a number of people who asked to attend this press conference today for our interpretation, and I’d just say we still have a lot of questions.”
Unsolved, high-profile murder cases in Weleetka and Anadarko are among those dealt with by the state agency in recent years.
No arrests have been made in the June 8, 2008, shooting deaths of Taylor Dawn Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, on a country road near Weleetka.
Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-state-bureau-of-investigation-defends-its-record-of-closing-slaying-cases/article/3451990#ixzz0kZbuGyF6
A side note: I haven't received a personal response from Representative Morrissette; however, that's fine - just hang in there, Sir, and keep asking the important questions for us.
waltzingmatilda
04-09-2010, 11:32 AM
Wow. JB sounds really defensive in that video.
She's talking about the long and difficult process of being accredited and I know it is in schools....so much so that it is discracting from the task at hand, which is teaching children.
Perhaps now that that process is over OSBI can solve some cold cases. Wonder how often the agency must apply for re-accreditation, or do they? I only know about schools.
She states "that means we are the best of the best of the best and so that means we are doing our job." hmmmm
She concedes that this was information they should have brought to you months ago, even years ago, to show that they are doing their job.
Just a short synopsis of the video for those who have dial up or difficulty watching.
Here are my thoughts....
I now see why the first thought which came to BootsOK's mind in describing OSBI is ARROGANCE. I found JB to be very condescending and arrogant towards her audience. (A bit of pretenciousness shines through but that may be because I think she looks like Sarah Palin, and she knows it. Dress, hairstyle, make-up and mannerisms are similar, MOO) She is in a mode of REACTING which could have been prevented by actual ACTIONS.
I would like to see the actual data on which her lovely charts were based. Just sayin'....
Thanks to Boots and flossie for posting this.
wm
little726
04-09-2010, 12:09 PM
Wow. JB sounds really defensive in that video.
She's talking about the long and difficult process of being accredited and I know it is in schools....so much so that it is discracting from the task at hand, which is teaching children.
Perhaps now that that process is over OSBI can solve some cold cases. Wonder how often the agency must apply for re-accreditation, or do they? I only know about schools.
She states "that means we are the best of the best of the best and so that means we are doing our job." hmmmm
She concedes that this was information they should have brought to you months ago, even years ago, to show that they are doing their job.
Just a short synopsis of the video for those who have dial up or difficulty watching.
Here are my thoughts....
I now see why the first thought which came to BootsOK's mind in describing OSBI is ARROGANCE. I found JB to be very condescending and arrogant towards her audience. (A bit of pretenciousness shines through but that may be because I think she looks like Sarah Palin, and she knows it. Dress, hairstyle, make-up and mannerisms are similar, MOO) She is in a mode of REACTING which could have been prevented by actual ACTIONS.
I would like to see the actual data on which her lovely charts were based. Just sayin'....
Thanks to Boots and flossie for posting this.
wm
Matilda, I thought the same thing about JB when I watched the video. In fact, I didn't have my speakers on because it was late at night. I could tell by her actions, she was a tad upset.
Boots-OK
04-09-2010, 12:09 PM
JB and her power point presentations :waitasec:
IMHO - JB should toss the flip charts, pie charts, etc., and just give us some real information. At the press conference I attended, she had numbers and presentations and .... no answers.
Wouldn't it be more helpful if she provided victim's names in the cases they have solved? Take the data down to a personal level. Give the victims a name and some degree of honor.
This comment offended me: "We get the most difficult cases. We don’t get the smoking guns. We get the decomposing bodies in the creek bed."
The Rev. Carol Daniels (Anadarko) and our girls were not decomposing bodies in the creek bed. OSBI was called immediately in both of these, and, IMHO, they should both have been smoking gun cases.
As always, my :twocents: and IMO
Ruflossn
04-09-2010, 12:17 PM
I totally agree that Ms. Brown is arrogant and condescending. Anyway, what I am wondering, is WHY is OSBI paying a salary to someone who has NO law force experience to speak to the public about OSBI? Wouldn't the money be better spent on someone who could do two jobs, 1) investigate and 2) be a spokesperson? According to Ms. Brown, 'they can always use more investigators'. So, roll her salary into a person who can help out on both fronts. IF I am wrong about Ms. Brown having no LE experience, plz. let me know. But, from what I can gather, she has never worked in LE.
And, I would also like to see the graphs that were produced to reinforce the greatness of OSBI. I want to see how many homicides were domestic, gang related etc........... Those types of cases are relatively "easy" to solve / prosecute. I want to know the exact breakdown of the exact types of cases.
Flossie
Ruflossn
04-09-2010, 12:19 PM
JB and her power point presentations :waitasec:
IMHO - JB should toss the flip charts, pie charts, etc., and just give us some real information. At the press conference I attended, she had numbers and presentations and .... no answers.
Wouldn't it be more helpful if she provided victim's names in the cases they have solved? Take the data down to a personal level. Give the victims a name and some degree of honor.
This comment offended me: "We get the most difficult cases. We don’t get the smoking guns. We get the decomposing bodies in the creek bed."
The Rev. Carol Daniels (Anadarko) and our girls were not decomposing bodies in the creek bed. OSBI was called immediately in both of these, and, IMHO, they should both have been smoking gun cases.
As always, my :twocents: and IMO
OMGosh, Boots, I thought the exact SAME THING! That comment really ticked me off. Once again, Arrogance................... :banghead:
little726
04-09-2010, 01:46 PM
I totally agree that Ms. Brown is arrogant and condescending. Anyway, what I am wondering, is WHY is OSBI paying a salary to someone who has NO law force experience to speak to the public about OSBI? Wouldn't the money be better spent on someone who could do two jobs, 1) investigate and 2) be a spokesperson? According to Ms. Brown, 'they can always use more investigators'. So, roll her salary into a person who can help out on both fronts. IF I am wrong about Ms. Brown having no LE experience, plz. let me know. But, from what I can gather, she has never worked in LE.
And, I would also like to see the graphs that were produced to reinforce the greatness of OSBI. I want to see how many homicides were domestic, gang related etc........... Those types of cases are relatively "easy" to solve / prosecute. I want to know the exact breakdown of the exact types of cases.
Flossie
Ruf, I read somewhere that JB use to be a news reporter before going to OSBI.
wfgodot
04-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Ruf, I read somewhere that JB use to be a news reporter before going to OSBI.
Yep. Ms. Jessica was a reporter for KFOR-TV in OKC.
waltzingmatilda
04-09-2010, 03:17 PM
Whew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. I worried that my passionate post might have sounded abrasive.
Her being a former news reporter may account for her seemingly 'talking down to subordinates' in that 'I am beyond reproach' voice to the reporters who were present.
Like Flossie, I would like to see the breakdown of the graphs she presented. Just accepting her word and the visuals she provided at the PC is not enough for me. I would like to review the actual data fom which the graphs were drawn. JMO.
wm
Thanks to Boots for your firsthand account.
Ruflossn
04-09-2010, 03:23 PM
On the OSBI website, there is a link where you can print off and send in (Snail mail) an evaluation of the OSBI. Below is the link ~
http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Citizens%27_Survey/Survey.html
Thank you for taking time to fill out the OSBI Citizens' Survey. The OSBI will use the information from this survey to evaluate the services we offer. We are committed to providing the best possible services to the community, and your input is one of the greatest tools we have that allows us to do that.
Below you will find instructions for filling out and submitting the survey.
Instructions:
1. Click the link below to open the survey.
2. Fill out the form completely.
3. Either save the survey to your computer and click here to e-mail the form, or print the form and mail it to:
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation
Attn: Beth Miles, CALEA Manager
6600 N. Harvey
Oklahoma City, OK 73116
LadyD'enah
04-12-2010, 05:46 AM
It's so frustrating to come in every day and see that there is no new information on this case. It appears as though everything has come to a complete standstill. Who knows what work is being conducted behind the scenes by LE and any other authorities, but it seems to be turning into a cold case at a frightening pace. I cannot imagine how the families and friends of these two precious girls must feel at the lack of resources and effort that seems to be going into this case by LE...Will Skyla and Taylor ever recieve justice?
:+:MrTT:+:
04-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Its been almost 2 years now, and as far as I know the weapons used in this crime have not been used in another one.
Which makes it seem like they were used to commit this crime and then no longer used to commit any other crime where any bullets collected could have been compared with the bullets retrieved from the girls.
The guns were used once and once only for this crime and no other, unless someone knows something differently.
So thinking way outside the box here, i wonder if perhaps, if it is a possible, that the weapons were not discarded someplace, buried etc..........Perhaps they were pond somewhere for cash.
Yes, highly unlikely im sure, but perhaps within the pass year, someone, and not necessary the killer, took the guns to a pond shop and sold them for some quick cash, and they may still be setting at the pond shop today.......or taken to a gun show, and sold traded there. The know what weapons were used, so maybe they should call local state pond shops and just ask if they have those type of weapons for sell, and go get them and take some tests to see if in fact they are the weapons used.
OSBI, may have already done this, but whom knows what they have done. We have to wait a year for an update on the case.
I rather not wait for a deathbed confession, or wait for the killer to call on cell phone and say i did it.
So that is why i am thinking wayyyyyyy outside the box.
OSBI, what are you doing!!!!!!!
anyone in the area or state, and can call, call the pond shops and just ask if they have any weapons for sell, that were identified by the bullets recovered.
A needle in a haystack, perhaps....but its something we can do.
waltzingmatilda
04-14-2010, 05:16 PM
Hi Mr TT! Is is great seeing you here again. I have missed your posts.
This case doesn't seem to be a priority for OSBI, IMO. I am very frustrated. It shouldn't take this long to find the thugs who murdered these girls. I wish the media would pressure LE more for updates. Maybe they have and we just don't know or OSBI has responded that there are no new updates.
If these girls were from affluent families, I think it would have been solved right away. Taylor and Skyla just don't seem to be a top priority for the LE agencies involved. I am becoming very discouraged as you can probably discern from my post.
These girls deserve justice!
MOO
wm
:+:MrTT:+:
04-14-2010, 05:31 PM
Hi Mr TT! Is is great seeing you here again. I have missed your posts.
This case doesn't seem to be a priority for OSBI, IMO. I am very frustrated. It shouldn't take this long to find the thugs who murdered these girls. I wish the media would pressure LE more for updates. Maybe they have and we just don't know or OSBI has responded that there are no new updates.
If these girls were from affluent families, I think it would have been solved right away. Taylor and Skyla just don't seem to be a top priority for the LE agencies involved. I am becoming very discouraged as you can probably discern from my post.
These girls deserve justice!
MOO
wm
I needed to take a few months off, and its good to be back.
Yes, i understand the frustration, and i don't expect anything new from last year at the next conference if they have one.
They still going to say, we are waiting for someone whom knows something to call and tell us what we need to know.
If we could find one of the guns, that would be some new breaking news, at least something to go on and get the investigation warm again. And i agree, if these two angels would have been the children of wealthy individuals, things may have been different, which is sad to say................If we want the medias attention again, we have to find something to draw there interest. This case is to heinous to go unsolved, eventually WE will help solve:toast: this case.
Spirit works in mysterious ways at times!
waltzingmatilda
04-14-2010, 06:26 PM
Yes Spirit does work in mysterious ways. Just when I thought of you the other day and wondered where you had been.and hoped God was shining his light on you....Poof!....YOU reappear!
I wish we could visit the community of Waleetka and burn some sage in the whole area because I feel there is a dark cloud hanging overhead. This community has had such tragedy with the girls murders and the fire last year that burned a good bit of the town.
Your idea of tracking guns/bullets is a good one. It seems like it would be easy enough to check out pawn shops since it is a small community. However, I'll bet those guns are long gone by now. Either sold on the black market or a gun show or taken out of town by one of the perps, so that they can't be tracked. I do believe there is more than one perp and one of them may have been visiting from another area. Just a gut feeling.
There have been reports of numerous meth labs in the area. I don't think anyone will tell if they know anything out of fear of the druggies or due to being an addict themselves.
The 'Walk in Waleetka' that some sleuths organized last year generated news coverage. I find it sad that it took a group of folks that included some traveling from distant places to bring awareness and the community itself seems to have moved on with their lives. (with the exception of sleuths who are locals and care a great deal) If I were a lady of wealth, I would hire my own PI to move to the area and try to infiltrate the drug community because I think that that is where the answer is hidden. We have recently been contacting OSBI and a state legislator thru E-mails to raise awareness. No responses that I know of.
You have restored my faith that we can help solve this case. I am pleased you are back and that you still care about these lovely young girls.
MOO
Keeping the faith,
wm :~)
Lauren - CA
04-14-2010, 10:56 PM
I totally agree that Ms. Brown is arrogant and condescending. Anyway, what I am wondering, is WHY is OSBI paying a salary to someone who has NO law force experience to speak to the public about OSBI? Wouldn't the money be better spent on someone who could do two jobs, 1) investigate and 2) be a spokesperson? According to Ms. Brown, 'they can always use more investigators'. So, roll her salary into a person who can help out on both fronts. IF I am wrong about Ms. Brown having no LE experience, plz. let me know. But, from what I can gather, she has never worked in LE.
And, I would also like to see the graphs that were produced to reinforce the greatness of OSBI. I want to see how many homicides were domestic, gang related etc........... Those types of cases are relatively "easy" to solve / prosecute. I want to know the exact breakdown of the exact types of cases.
Flossie
Jessica Brown really was having a hard time articulating her words, wasn't she?
Throughout the video, I kept asking myself who she thought she was kidding. Does she actually believe anyone bought that garbage?
On a sadder note, someone needs to tell that woman that the victims have names, families, loved ones that will never forget them and for them to be basically referred as rotting flesh in a creek somewhere disgusts me. What is wrong with her?
Ruflossn
04-15-2010, 01:25 PM
Flossie, I had to laugh when I watched the video of Jessica Brown. She really was having a hard time articulating her words, wasn't she?
Throughout the video, I kept asking myself who she thought she was kidding. Does she actually believe anyone bought that garbage?
On a sadder note, someone needs to tell that woman that the victims have names, families, loved ones that will never forget them and for them to be basically referred as rotting flesh in a creek somewhere disgusts me. What is wrong with her?
Hi Lauren ~
That video drove me to drink. :) I know what you are thinking..... Doesn't take much......... lol
JB's comment about "rotting in a creek", was totally uncalled for. What did that crude comment accomplish? Nothing! It was out of line and I wish a member of the press would take her to task for her callous attitude.
I was glad to see the video for the simple reason that it showed OSBI had been contacted about the concerns being voiced by the public. On a side note, I have been reading and researching about another Oklahoma case. (Joe Neff) I sent the OSBI an e-mail asking about how to obtain a copy of an autopsy report. I sent the e-mail over one week ago and I have heard NOTHING from them. UGH!
Kimster
04-22-2010, 05:29 PM
Posting about how a player in this case portrays themselves is okay to a limit. Saying you feel they appeared arrogant is okay, but discussing how they look on a personal level is not okay.
And attacking members is not okay. Disagree with the post, not the poster.
Some posts have been edited and removed. If you have more issues, use your alert buttons.
Yentis
04-23-2010, 04:59 PM
This is my first post, as I have quietly read and ponder on all post. I am looking for or need assistance in constructing a definite timeline leading up to the murders. I have looked here and on other boards and I am shocked that no time line has been established. I am interested in the 24 hours leading up the incident. Anybody has any ideas or can point me in the right direction.
Shutterfly
04-24-2010, 12:19 AM
I can't find the rumor thread anymore and I haven't been in here in forever. Are we not permitted to engage in rumor here anymore? If not, where would one go to share some rather odd information recieved recently in conjunction with this case?
waltzingmatilda
04-24-2010, 09:28 AM
This is my first post, as I have quietly read and ponder on all post. I am looking for or need assistance in constructing a definite timeline leading up to the murders. I have looked here and on other boards and I am shocked that no time line has been established. I am interested in the 24 hours leading up the incident. Anybody has any ideas or can point me in the right direction.
Timeline Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Here's a link to the timeline thread!
And welcome! I'm glad you've joined us.
wm
waltzingmatilda
04-24-2010, 09:32 AM
I can't find the rumor thread anymore and I haven't been in here in forever. Are we not permitted to engage in rumor here anymore? If not, where would one go to share some rather odd information recieved recently in conjunction with this case?
Hi Shutterfly, Did you check the PL? It seems like there used to be a rumor thread there IIRC. I look forward to hearing what you have to share.
wm
wfgodot
04-24-2010, 09:36 AM
Hi Shutterfly, Did you check the PL? It seems like there used to be a rumor thread there IIRC. I look forward to hearing what you have to share.
wm
Here's the old rumors thread, but it's closed now:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71078&page=9&highlight=rumor+thread+weleetka
waltzingmatilda
04-24-2010, 09:40 AM
Well darn! I'm not surprised that it's locked I guess after all this time. I wonder if we could start up another one?
Thanks wfgodot.
wfgodot
04-24-2010, 09:58 AM
Well darn! I'm not surprised that it's locked I guess after all this time. I wonder if we could start up another one?
Thanks wfgodot.
You're welcome! I think we could just incorporate rumors into this thread as long as they're clearly labelled as RUMORS, plus not directly identifying anyone - use initials, no sleuthing of minors, etc. etc. The usual rules.
I'm certainly interested in what Shutterfly has to say. "Rather odd information" always captures my interest!
Ruflossn
04-24-2010, 11:44 AM
This is my first post, as I have quietly read and ponder on all post. I am looking for or need assistance in constructing a definite timeline leading up to the murders. I have looked here and on other boards and I am shocked that no time line has been established. I am interested in the 24 hours leading up the incident. Anybody has any ideas or can point me in the right direction.
Yentis ~
Welcome to the thread. I have found that attempting to determine a definite time line has been an exercise in futility. The only thing I have ever been sure of was found in the autopsy reports. If you read the autopsies, you will notice that it is documented that both girls were "found" at 5:21 pm. The autopsy report does not list a TOD. (At least not that I could find). I always found it interesting that on the autopsy there was info regarding the date, location etc.. of when the deceased became "injured, ill" but, under the info for "time" it is listed as unknown. In my experience, there is usually a TOD determined from taking an anal temperature &/or liver temperature. It has always been my opinion that the girls were found almost immediately after being shot / killed. I wonder if that is why there has never been a TOD publicly announced. Also, iirc, the autopsy reports released to the public are not the complete results. Maybe the TOD was deliberately left out? As usual, there are a million questions that revolve around this case.
Again, welcome to this thread. I always enjoy reading new posters info and view points.
little726
04-24-2010, 11:54 AM
This is what Hoppyfrog, regarding rumors on the Pat Kimmi case;
"And regarding rumors: if you have read a rumor, in your post you must label it as such and give a link. If you have heard a rumor, you must label it as such and state where you heard it."
Thank you,
Hoppy
moderator
Shutterfly
04-24-2010, 01:47 PM
This is what Hoppyfrog, regarding rumors on the Pat Kimmi case;
"And regarding rumors: if you have read a rumor, in your post you must label it as such and give a link. If you have heard a rumor, you must label it as such and state where you heard it."
Thank you,
Hoppy
moderator
And with that...here we go....
A bit of history...
I haven't involved myself in this case in a year and a half I believe. I haven't so much as come to this thread. It drove me crazy and I had to step away. Taylor and Skyla are what brought me here to WS's. There was a time when I was up to my eyeballs in their case. And for those of you who don't remember me, I am NOT a local. I live about 1000 miles away and I have never set foot near the area where Taylor and Sklya were guned down. I had a dream about Taylor and Skyla, that's what got me hooked on this case. I won't discuss that dream in detail, I'm sorry. I don't believe in psychics, and for me to have had this dream has caused me much chaos within my soul because it was so real and at the time, I knew NOTHING about this case. I never did discuss this dream, except with one person. I have reason to believe that some of you may know who that person was. I use to talk to a few people, realtime, about this case. I hadn't in over a year. Until April 12th I believe it was....
Take this with a grain of salt until I can figure out how to prove ANY of it. I'm going to call it RUMOR, speculation...and it's okay if you just want to believe that I'm full if ***** as well, until I can determine how to work this out satisfactorily in order that you might accept it as some form of truth. I know well how passionate those involved in this case are in solving it. I wouldn't play with any of you like that, I give you my word...nor would I risk my WS's account.
I got an email on April 14th. It was sent to an old email address that I never use, so it took me a couple days to find it. It was sent on April 12th. In the email, the sender asked me how I was, etc, and then it said this;
"I have a man with the OSBI that would seriously like to talk to you. Are you ready to pick this up again?
Call me. Please!"
I almost fell out of my chair. First, because she had obviously told an actual LE officer about this crazy dream I had. I was mortified thinking that this guy, if he existed, must think I'm a fruitloop. It was 2 am when I got the email so I called her later that day. Secondly, I hadn't spoken to this person at all in at least 14 months. So this just came out of a clear blue sky. This is what she told me as best I can remember.
She told me that someone whom she believed to be OSBI, by the name of Kurt, was nosing around, asking questions three days prior. She claims to have a son who lived near where these murders took place and that this LE officer visited her son at his place of employment. She says that her son and this gentleman went to school together. She told me that her son had a hunting lease on property adjacent to where these murders took place, and that's why LE was asking questions of her son. And yes, she told me that SHE called this LE officer after the visit to her son, she recited the dream I had to him. I was p*ssed.
She wanted me to talk to him and she said that he told her to try and get in touch with me and to get him my name and number. She wanted 'permission" I suppose to give him this info but I don't understand now why. She had no issue with revealing the content of this crazy dream of mine after I'd specifically told her a million times to tell no one. I wasn't ashamed of it or hiding it, I just didn't want people to think I was crazy, so I asked her never to tell it. I didn't find out until my conversation with her on April 14th that she HAS told other people. But I let it go and played along. Sure, if she wanted to give him my name and number.....go for it. I'd like this case solved so badly that I'd tell it now...whether I look like a fruitloop or not.
It's now ten days later. I haven't received another email from her (or a response to two emails I've sent to her) and NO ONE has called me re this case. I was trying to sorta wait it out and see if this Kurt called, or what the heck was going on. But since ten days have gone by I decided to post it and let you guys see what, if anything, you make of it. I just found it really, really odd that this happened out of the blue like this and I confess, it bothers me just a little and I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.
*Yes....I have the email.
*I can also pull that two hour phone call off of my phone records if need be.
*The source? Those of you who have been around and on this case since the beginning know who she is. I met her here on this very forum. She hasn't been around here in a very long time.
*These are the only things I can prove...kwim?
So once again.....call all of it RUMOR until someone can help me sort it out...if it's even worth sorting. But at least now you know what I know and I can stop carying this around, wondering what to do with it.....
Ruflossn
04-24-2010, 02:30 PM
And with that...here we go....
A bit of history...
She told me that someone whom she believed to be OSBI, by the name of Kurt, was nosing around, asking questions three days prior. She claims to have a son who lived near where these murders took place and that this LE officer visited her son at his place of employment. She says that her son and this gentleman went to school together. She told me that her son had a hunting lease on property adjacent to where these murders took place, and that's why LE was asking questions of her son. And yes, she told me that SHE called this LE officer after the visit to her son, she recited the dream I had to him. I was p*ssed.
She wanted me to talk to him and she said that he told her to try and get in touch with me and to get him my name and number. She wanted 'permission" I suppose to give him this info but I don't understand now why. She had no issue with revealing the content of this crazy dream of mine after I'd specifically told her a million times to tell no one. I wasn't ashamed of it or hiding it, I just didn't want people to think I was crazy, so I asked her never to tell it. I didn't find out until my conversation with her on April 14th that she HAS told other people. But I let it go and played along. Sure, if she wanted to give him my name and number.....go for it. I'd like this case solved so badly that I'd tell it now...whether I look like a fruitloop or not.
It's now ten days later. I haven't received another email from her (or a response to two emails I've sent to her) and NO ONE has called me re this case. I was trying to sorta wait it out and see if this Kurt called, or what the heck was going on. But since ten days have gone by I decided to post it and let you guys see what, if anything, you make of it. I just found it really, really odd that this happened out of the blue like this and I confess, it bothers me just a little and I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.
*Yes....I have the email.
*I can also pull that two hour phone call off of my phone records if need be.
*The source? Those of you who have been around and on this case since the beginning know who she is. I met her here on this very forum. She hasn't been around here in a very long time.
*These are the only things I can prove...kwim?
So once again.....call all of it RUMOR until someone can help me sort it out...if it's even worth sorting. But at least now you know what I know and I can stop carying this around, wondering what to do with it.....
Hi Shutterfly~
I am aware of the dream you had.
It was shared with me by the person you are referencing.
I would start by trying to determine if the OSBI has an officer named, "Kurt".
I am a little concerned about the statement - "someone whom she believed to be OSBI". This makes me think the person's credentials were assumed and not verified.
Lastly, I would never give permission for someone to release my personal info.
I would request the officers phone # etc.......... and call him.
Take Care and it is nice to hear from you.
wfgodot
04-24-2010, 03:01 PM
Shutterfly, while I never heard or read the entire scenario of your dream, I do recall reading your reference to the dream and an implied suggestion regarding a person possibly of interest, so to speak. (Wow, that seems like forever ago; I was still in San Antonio and reading as a guest here.) And nothing in my reading since then has caused me to eliminate that person as a very strong candidate. #1 in my book, that particular train of thought.
As for the "OSBI" guy, go in fear of people who contact you out of the blue and announce that the government wants to get ahold of you. (That's just a general rule, lol.) "Kurt" sounds like a figurative character and not a literal one and, as such, may have been the fictitious bait for a fishing expedition into the waters of your (and, by extension, others') knowledge of the case. Keep us posted if you get any calls please. And like Ruflossn says above, steer clear of giving personal info of course. I think the emailer and "OSBI guy" are the same person, with some male person playing The Voice of Kurt if a call does come.
A general thought after reading this:
Some of us, if we're lucky, run into one, maybe even two, good, good friends in life who will keep a confidence. These friends are pretty much never, ever online friends.
And that makes sense. The loyalty just doesn't feel the same, precisely because of the anonymity, I think.
Of course, it's a good thing to realize all around that pretty much anything you tell someone could very well got told somewhere, and that chain can go on and on.
Sorry for your disappointment and confusion, Shutterfly. --tapu
little726
04-24-2010, 03:43 PM
I'm a little confused, shutterfly. Is this Kurt person somehow involved with Taylor and Skyla's death?
wfgodot
04-26-2010, 11:11 PM
OSBI's Track Record Investigated After Criticism From Lawmaker
NewsOn6
---
The list of Oklahoma's unsolved homicides is lengthy. Pastor Carol Daniels was murdered in an Anadarko church. Taylor Paschal Placker and Skyla Whitaker were gunned down in Weleetka. The Denneys were shot to death in their Locust Grove home. Poteau bar owner Joe Neff was found dead near Pocola. Sam Sanders was killed in Fairland, his wife badly beaten. Three young girl scouts were murdered at camp in 1977 and the list goes on. All of those cases were investigated by the OSBI. All of them are unsolved.
---
When Representative Morrissette questioned the OSBI the agency called a news conference. Jessica Brown released some impressive statistics. The OSBI boasts an 89% homicide clearance rate over the past five years. That's much higher, they claim, than the national average. But what exactly is a homicide clearance rate?
"That is a homicide that, uh, someone's been arrested or charged. The suspect is dead or it was a homicide suicide," said Brown.
When questioned further about the rate Brown seemed confused and had to double check that what she had just said was correct.
"I think that's correct. I can look it up real quick if you'll hold on just a second," said Brown.
There are actually more reasons a homicide could be considered cleared. According to the OSBI a homicide is cleared when there's been an arrest, charges filed, if the investigation is complete but the District Attorney doesn't file charges, the suspect dies or other circumstances prevent prosecution.
"So it doesn't necessarily mean that the case has been solved," asked Jennifer Loren, with The Oklahoma Impact Team.
"I think what we're doing here is semantical a little bit, solved versus cleared. It may not be solved but it is cleared," said Brown.
So the real question remains: How many of OSBI's homicides have been solved? We asked for actual arrests over the past five years. Brown said she couldn't us get those numbers right away because she'd have to pull agents in off the streets in order to get us that data.
---
and much, much more, at
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12379331
Pensfan
04-27-2010, 12:56 AM
I, unfortunately, lived 27 years around Atoka, OK. This area is very rural, poor, uneducated, and clannish; but these murders aren't from clan or drug retaliation. This is a random thrill killing and that’s why no crimes in this area have been seen like it before or since these murders. LE hasn’t been able to solve this crime because they have incorrectly profiled the killers. These killers are best friends and the “leader” or both have Disorganized Episodic Aggression. If LE would publish a list of these characteristics to everyone around this tiny town, the good ‘ole folk could identify these best friend killers (aged 16-25) very quickly. Here are the characteristics of Disorganized Episodic Aggression.
Ritualistic behavior
Attempts to conceal mental instability
Compulsivity
ADHD or ADD or Bipolar-biochemical symptoms
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Possible evidence of genetic disorder
Periodic search for psychiatric help
unreliability
untruthfulness
History of suicidal gesture
History of committing assault
Hypersexuality and/or abnormal sexual behavior
poor judgment
History of drug or alcohol abuse
Parents with history of chronic drug or alcohol abuse
Victim of childhood physical or mental abuse
Probably a result of an unwanted pregnancy
Unhappiness in childhood resulted in inability to find happiness and probably not to finish high school school
Extraordinary cruelty to animals
unable to follow any life plan
Attraction to arson without homicidal interest
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy
Here is an excellent article to read related to Disorganized Episodic Aggression. (Yes, I am an old psych nurse.)
http://www.ravenndragon.net/montgomery/csi/oconnortypology2.pdf
LadyD'enah
04-27-2010, 05:51 AM
Some very interesting information there Pensfan - thank you. I'm curious to know, do you have an idea of who the killers are? Or is this all information you have deduced from studying the case?
Pensfan
04-27-2010, 02:49 PM
Some very interesting information there Pensfan - thank you. I'm curious to know, do you have an idea of who the killers are? Or is this all information you have deduced from studying the case?
I have no idea of the identity of the murderers. I haven't lived in SE Oklahoma for many years.
I truly believe that this bizarre killing was a thrill kill based on the fact that the victims were young, innocent, and helpless. There has never been a case like this near this small town.
The Girl Scout murderer case happened over 35 years ago and the suspect had raped other women. He died in prison for these cases. The DNA was too old in his case to test to find the killer of the girl scouts. These girl scouts were raped and brutalized. The Weleetka case was not sexual; the locals would have leaked this info if it was sexual. These killers were impulsive, explosive and sociopathic which is exactly the same type of young adult that tortures small animals for thrills.
Praying these monsters are found and punished SOON!
Ruflossn
04-27-2010, 07:48 PM
And with that...here we go....
"I have a man with the OSBI that would seriously like to talk to you. Are you ready to pick this up again?
Call me. Please!"
I almost fell out of my chair. First, because she had obviously told an actual LE officer about this crazy dream I had. I was mortified thinking that this guy, if he existed, must think I'm a fruitloop. It was 2 am when I got the email so I called her later that day. Secondly, I hadn't spoken to this person at all in at least 14 months. So this just came out of a clear blue sky. This is what she told me as best I can remember.
She told me that someone whom she believed to be OSBI, by the name of Kurt, was nosing around, asking questions three days prior. She claims to have a son who lived near where these murders took place and that this LE officer visited her son at his place of employment. She says that her son and this gentleman went to school together. She told me that her son had a hunting lease on property adjacent to where these murders took place, and that's why LE was asking questions of her son. And yes, she told me that SHE called this LE officer after the visit to her son, she recited the dream I had to him. I was p*ssed.
She wanted me to talk to him and she said that he told her to try and get in touch with me and to get him my name and number. She wanted 'permission" I suppose to give him this info but I don't understand now why. She had no issue with revealing the content of this crazy dream of mine after I'd specifically told her a million times to tell no one. I wasn't ashamed of it or hiding it, I just didn't want people to think I was crazy, so I asked her never to tell it. I didn't find out until my conversation with her on April 14th that she HAS told other people. But I let it go and played along. Sure, if she wanted to give him my name and number.....go for it. I'd like this case solved so badly that I'd tell it now...whether I look like a fruitloop or not.
It's now ten days later. I haven't received another email from her (or a response to two emails I've sent to her) and NO ONE has called me re this case. I was trying to sorta wait it out and see if this Kurt called, or what the heck was going on. But since ten days have gone by I decided to post it and let you guys see what, if anything, you make of it. I just found it really, really odd that this happened out of the blue like this and I confess, it bothers me just a little and I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.
*Yes....I have the email.
*I can also pull that two hour phone call off of my phone records if need be.
*The source? Those of you who have been around and on this case since the beginning know who she is. I met her here on this very forum. She hasn't been around here in a very long time.
*These are the only things I can prove...kwim?
So once again.....call all of it RUMOR until someone can help me sort it out...if it's even worth sorting. But at least now you know what I know and I can stop carying this around, wondering what to do with it.....
Shutter~
One of the OSBI investigators that is working closely with this case is Kurt Titsworth. Some people do not believe he is doing a good job on this case. I believe he is doing the best with what he has to work with. I would imagine this is the "Kurt" that was referenced by your friend. Again, this is all jmo. And FTR, I do not think you are a fruitloop. Your dream was a personal matter and we can not control our dreams.
Beyond Belief
05-02-2010, 01:09 AM
Pensfan, amazing information.
I believe the local folks could pinpoint these people too.
GetSmart
05-03-2010, 11:42 PM
"deja vu"
Poor Shutterfly !!
I don't think YOU are the Fruitloop !!!
wfgodot
05-04-2010, 12:04 AM
I, unfortunately, lived 27 years around Atoka, OK. This area is very rural, poor, uneducated, and clannish; but these murders aren't from clan or drug retaliation. This is a random thrill killing and that’s why no crimes in this area have been seen like it before or since these murders. LE hasn’t been able to solve this crime because they have incorrectly profiled the killers. These killers are best friends and the “leader” or both have Disorganized Episodic Aggression. If LE would publish a list of these characteristics to everyone around this tiny town, the good ‘ole folk could identify these best friend killers (aged 16-25) very quickly. Here are the characteristics of Disorganized Episodic Aggression.
Ritualistic behavior
Attempts to conceal mental instability
Compulsivity
ADHD or ADD or Bipolar-biochemical symptoms
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Possible evidence of genetic disorder
Periodic search for psychiatric help
unreliability
untruthfulness
History of suicidal gesture
History of committing assault
Hypersexuality and/or abnormal sexual behavior
poor judgment
History of drug or alcohol abuse
Parents with history of chronic drug or alcohol abuse
Victim of childhood physical or mental abuse
Probably a result of an unwanted pregnancy
Unhappiness in childhood resulted in inability to find happiness and probably not to finish high school school
Extraordinary cruelty to animals
unable to follow any life plan
Attraction to arson without homicidal interest
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy
Here is an excellent article to read related to Disorganized Episodic Aggression. (Yes, I am an old psych nurse.)
http://www.ravenndragon.net/montgomery/csi/oconnortypology2.pdf
The only problem with the utility of a Disorganized Episodic Aggression theory - in rural Oklahoma, where meth and alcohol are major problems and poverty, family dysfunction, and lack of opportunities are all prevalent to a pronounced degree - is that most towns have many individuals who fit this pattern of behavior. Still, it's a very good theory: no lack of suspects, certainly, though OSBI has yet to find the right combination.
I can't agree with the random "thrill kill" theory, though; I think these murders served a purpose to the killer(s) beyond that of the kill itself, and the answers are close enough at hand that these crimes should have been solved long ago. Some locals must know the answers but, either through fear of the criminals or their families, or of authority, their silence has succeeded in making this, for the time-being, an almost unsolvable case.
Pensfan
05-04-2010, 01:48 AM
The only problem with the utility of a Disorganized Episodic Aggression theory - in rural Oklahoma, where meth and alcohol are major problems and poverty, family dysfunction, and lack of opportunities are all prevalent to a pronounced degree - is that most towns have many individuals who fit this pattern of behavior. Still, it's a very good theory: no lack of suspects, certainly, though OSBI has yet to find the right combination.
I can't agree with the random "thrill kill" theory, though; I think these murders served a purpose to the killer(s) beyond that of the kill itself, and the answers are close enough at hand that these crimes should have been solved long ago. Some locals must know the answers but, either through fear of the criminals or their families, or of authority, their silence has succeeded in making this, for the time-being, an almost unsolvable case.
My elderly mom still lives in Okla. and cries for these little girls. I keep track of the news (or should I say the lack of news) on this case for her. It really seems to me that the one young male (that threatened his own family with killing them and burning their house to the ground) is Borderline Personality Disorder if not sociopathic and pathologically unpredictable. IMO, he fits about all of the DEAggression characteristics. The mentally retarded male who was his buddy would be the perfect companion for the sociopath's thrill kill. The sociopath could easily have encouraged this MR young man to "play along". I'd be willing to bet that this MR young man is only borderline MR and has a high-enough IQ to play "Natural Born Killer". Having lived in SE Okla., I will never type these crazy males' names. Some of these clans are beyond unpredictable to begin with and once you add meth., it gets really scaaaaaarey. IMHO, there are people in that tiny town that are so afraid of these crazy clans, that $160,000 reward is just not worth reporting what they know.
IMO, one of these precious girls also has a very disturbed relative who closely fits the characteristics of BPD or sociopath with DEAggresion. It's time for the OSBI to release all of their discoveries, so that this crime can be solved by the public if they can't do it. Continuing to pray for justice.
noZme
05-04-2010, 12:12 PM
I sometimes wonder if more progress would have been made if the investigation had been left to Sheriff Choate. A rural county doesn't have the resources OSBI does, but with all the state has at it's disposal, the record is pathetic. They moved in with all the big guns & the "face of OSBI", darling spokesperson, J Brown & alienated the locals. The Weleetka perp is known in the area or was traveling through & would have stood out to the residents. Either way, the locals would have been key to solving this horrible crime, but instead clammed-up.
I remember very early in the investigation, perhaps that Monday, the sheriff stated they had someone in mind. Too bad we cannot rewind & try another course......... I haven't posted here for a long time; it is the most discouraging case I follow.
little726
05-04-2010, 02:21 PM
I sometimes wonder if more progress would have been made if the investigation had been left to Sheriff Choate. A rural county doesn't have the resources OSBI does, but with all the state has at it's disposal, the record is pathetic. They moved in with all the big guns & the "face of OSBI", darling spokesperson, J Brown & alienated the locals. The Weleetka perp is known in the area or was traveling through & would have stood out to the residents. Either way, the locals would have been key to solving this horrible crime, but instead clammed-up.
I remember very early in the investigation, perhaps that Monday, the sheriff stated they had someone in mind. Too bad we cannot rewind & try another course......... I haven't posted here for a long time; it is the most discouraging case I follow.
And they're still "clammy."
Shutterfly
05-04-2010, 03:40 PM
Shutter~
One of the OSBI investigators that is working closely with this case is Kurt Titsworth. Some people do not believe he is doing a good job on this case. I believe he is doing the best with what he has to work with. I would imagine this is the "Kurt" that was referenced by your friend. Again, this is all jmo. And FTR, I do not think you are a fruitloop. Your dream was a personal matter and we can not control our dreams.
"deja vu"
Poor Shutterfly !!
I don't think YOU are the Fruitloop !!!
But alas, a certain 'nameless' investigator sure sounded as though he believes I'm a fruitloop. I could crawl under a rock and just die. I've never been so humiliated in my life. So THIS is what it's like when you start a sentence with " I have a dream" and you're not Martin Luther King Jr? Sheesh. I won't make THAT mistake again.:furious:
waltzingmatilda
05-08-2010, 11:45 AM
But alas, a certain 'nameless' investigator sure sounded as though he believes I'm a fruitloop. I could crawl under a rock and just die. I've never been so humiliated in my life. So THIS is what it's like when you start a sentence with " I have a dream" and you're not Martin Luther King Jr? Sheesh. I won't make THAT mistake again.:furious:
Shutterfly, I am sorry that you were betrayed and humiliated in this way. We all know you are not a fruitloop. Hugs, wm
GetSmart
05-10-2010, 09:05 PM
Very bad Tornado going thru this area tonight.....
As of 7:30 p.m., there had been some injuries reported from storms that moved across the state. However, none of the injuries had been confirmed.
Eyewitness News 5's Linda Mares did confirm with authorities that Love's Travel Stop was destroyed but that no serious injuries were injured in that part of the storm. A witness told Eyewitness News 5 that nearly 100 people took cover in a cooler at the store, which is located near ....
http://www.koco.com/mostpopular/23508569/detail.html
GetSmart
05-10-2010, 09:42 PM
WHILE SURFING I FOUND THIS INFO .. .. Things I did not know about Weeletka..
History
Weleetka was once a major railroad town, serving as the division point for the Fort Smith and Western Railway (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Fort_Smith_and_Western_Railway). All train crews changed out in Weleetka, the town also housed major shops and repair facilities for the Steam Locomotives. Headquartered in Fort Smith, Arkansas, the Fort Smith and Western was a railroad that operated in the states of Arkansas and Oklahoma. The railroad's main line extended 217 miles, from Ft. Smith, Arkansas, through Weleetka to Guthrie, Oklahoma. The Fort Smith and Western owned a subsidiary, St. Louis, El Reno and Western which began operating 42 miles between Guthrie and El Reno, Oklahoma in June 1904. The railroad also acquired 32.5 miles of trackage rights over the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad from Fallis, Oklahoma to Oklahoma City.
The railroad supported much of the business and hotels of the City in the first half of the 1900s. Trains entering town from the East were switched and broken down in Weleetka, and dispatched Northwest for either Oklahoma City, Guthrie or El Reno. Thanks to the railroad yard in Weleetka, the single Westbound train could thus become two Westbound trains. The reverse was true for Eastbound Trains. Weleetka was vital to the life of the railroad. The railroad provided regular passenger service and at one time boasted through Pullman (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Pullman) sleeping cars to and from St. Louis and Oklahoma City. The route of the FS&W served no major population centers, but did serve major coal mining operations in eastern Oklahoma at Coal Creek, Bokoshe (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Bokoshe), and McCurtain (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=McCurtain). Other towns served included Crowder (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Crowder%2C_Oklahoma), Okemah (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Okemah%2C_Oklahoma), Boley (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Boley%2C_Oklahoma), Prague, Vernon (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Vernon%2C_Oklahoma), Indianola (http://www.websleuths.com/component/ewiki/?view=mediawiki&article=Indianola%2C_Oklahoma) and Meridian. A major portion of the road's freight traffic was metallurgical-grade coal from San Bois Coal Company mines near McCurtain. As coal traffic declined, an oil discovery near Okemah brought additional traffic, which postponed the abandonment of the railroad. The Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad withdrew trackage rights between Fallis and Oklahoma City in January 1939 after FS&W defaulted on rental fees, and when the Fort Smith and Western ceased operations on February 9, 1939, Weleetka lost its major employer.
Pensfan
05-12-2010, 01:21 AM
Very bad Tornado going thru this area tonight.....
As of 7:30 p.m., there had been some injuries reported from storms that moved across the state. However, none of the injuries had been confirmed.
Eyewitness News 5's Linda Mares did confirm with authorities that Love's Travel Stop was destroyed but that no serious injuries were injured in that part of the storm. A witness told Eyewitness News 5 that nearly 100 people took cover in a cooler at the store, which is located near ....
http://www.koco.com/mostpopular/23508569/detail.html
My most vivid memories with my grandparents in Tuttle, OK was running for the cellar. Afterwards my grandpa would sadly look out into the hay field to see how flattened his hay was after the large hail. It is a tough life for farmers in OK.
In less than one month it will be 2 years since these little girls were gunned down by monsters. One hundred sixty thousand dollars is a lot of money! Please call the OSBI with info!
ChickyGirl
05-22-2010, 11:33 AM
I always thought the killer was the grandfather that found them. I thought maybe it was because he had sexually abused his grand daughter and knew she was getting ready to tell. The other girl was just there and had to be killed also. He could have used two different guns.
Another thought was it was two thrill killers just driving through the area and deciding to kill them.
wfgodot
05-22-2010, 11:43 AM
Welcome to WebSleuths, ChickyGirl!
Pensfan
05-22-2010, 11:53 AM
IMO the grandfather was only a suspect when he didn't call 911 immediately. If he was attempting to keep females away from seeing the girls (having to hold them back) or if he thought another relative was calling 911, I can't envision one person shooting these girls 13 times with two guns.
These guns have to be out in there somewhere. Praying that they show up, but not after another murder. Grant this o Lord!
Because it has been continuously raining, I read through the bizillion of pages on that one Weeletka forum where everybody fights and points fingers. On this forum it stated that there were many spray paintings around Weeletka and I40. The paintings stated that TK was a baby killer. IMO, he would be the least of the grand jury subjects to be the killer. Why and who painted that TK was the baby killer? (IMO, this would be something the 2 real killers might have done since they are probably unemployed, dumb teenagers with a lot of time on their hands. ? )
ChickyGirl
05-22-2010, 08:06 PM
IMO the grandfather was only a suspect when he didn't call 911 immediately. If he was attempting to keep females away from seeing the girls (having to hold them back) or if he thought another relative was calling 911, I can't envision one person shooting these girls 13 times with two guns.
These guns have to be out in there somewhere. Praying that they show up, but not after another murder. Grant this o Lord!
Because it has been continuously raining, I read through the bizillion of pages on that one Weeletka forum where everybody fights and points fingers. On this forum it stated that there were many spray paintings around Weeletka and I40. The paintings stated that TK was a baby killer. IMO, he would be the least of the grand jury subjects to be the killer. Why and who painted that TK was the baby killer? (IMO, this would be something the 2 real killers might have done since they are probably unemployed, dumb teenagers with a lot of time on their hands. ? )
I followed this case in the beginning on another board, but haven't kept up with it. I plan to do some reading to try to catch up a bit. Thanks for the information.
Thanks for the welcome bfgodot!
Boots-OK
05-23-2010, 04:23 PM
With the second anniversary approaching, I am curious if JB and company will present a press conference with pie charts and power point presentations to impress us with how hard they are working on this case - or will the day just quietly slip by with not even a slight mention? (You know....like it has been from day one). Sad and pitiful! moo
wfgodot
05-23-2010, 05:05 PM
With the second anniversary approaching, I am curious if JB and company will present a press conference with pie charts and power point presentations to impress us with how hard they are working on this case - or will the day just quietly slip by with not even a slight mention? (You know....like it has been from day one). Sad and pitiful! moo
SAFE BETS
Tulsa World, Daily Oklahoman, and Muskogee Phoenix will all run two-year anniversary articles of varying lengths and depths, the Oklahoman's being the best as they've now run pieces critical of OSBI's repeated failures, and will want to continue that theme via an anniversary article (I hope).
JB will once again stress that one missing piece of the puzzle (which, personally, I think translates into, "Would someone please tell us who did these crimes, as we have no idea"), stress OSBI's working "through hell and high water" to solve this case, then be goaded into whining about the legislature's failure to pass the OSBI-requested bill to allow our fine (ha!) state medical examiner's office to withhold autopsy results, and somehow blame anyone but LE for failure to solve the Weleetka tragedy.
State bill to keep autopsy details secret derailed
http://enidnews.com/state/x334296883/State-bill-to-keep-autopsy-details-secret-derailed
Ruflossn
05-23-2010, 09:46 PM
SAFE BETS
Tulsa World, Daily Oklahoman, and Muskogee Phoenix will all run two-year anniversary articles of varying lengths and depths, the Oklahoman's being the best as they've now run pieces critical of OSBI's repeated failures, and will want to continue that theme via an anniversary article (I hope).
JB will once again stress that one missing piece of the puzzle (which, personally, I think translates into, "Would someone please tell us who did these crimes, as we have no idea"), stress OSBI's working "through hell and high water" to solve this case, then be goaded into whining about the legislature's failure to pass the OSBI-requested bill to allow our fine (ha!) state medical examiner's office to withhold autopsy results, and somehow blame anyone but LE for failure to solve the Weleetka tragedy.
State bill to keep autopsy details secret derailed
http://enidnews.com/state/x334296883/State-bill-to-keep-autopsy-details-secret-derailed
Skyla's Father has already been interviewed by the press in regards to the 2 year anniversary. I am not sure which newspaper interviewed him.
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