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TanyaT
09-16-2009, 02:45 AM
I might be totally wrong but we know the following:
1) Ray and his fiance were self-proclaimed "animal lovers", and working in the animal care part of Yale's research facility may mean that they wanted to ensure the animals' wellbeing
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)

Is it not feasible that Annie asked Ray to provide her with a larger animal, like a cat, and since 95% of animals at Yale are rodents, this would be an unusual request. Having a cat himself, this could have infuriated him and they could have gotten into a scuffle with the fiance encouraging him.

I should put a disclaimer though that I'm a vegan and truly hope this is not true since it would bring a bad name to all of us mentally stable animal lovers out there...

Labrat
09-16-2009, 02:46 AM
I see there are some new pics of RC at the below link. And the surveillance pic is now number 53.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/yale-annie-le/hc-yale-student-missing-annie-le-0910-pictures,0,5313732.photogallery

Pic #39- is that the woman holding the door?

amyb80
09-16-2009, 02:47 AM
At first I thought winter gloves. But another poster said it looks likes she's got a cast on her right hand. Good guess, as the left hand doesn't look so bulky.

I thought it looked like a glove.. like a utility glove.. one step up from the brown jersey kind but not a canvas type... I also thought she was carrying a wadded up lab coat and I was wrong there so...

PrayersForMaura
09-16-2009, 02:48 AM
My goodness, check this out!

This story was just posted and someone left an awfully long, lone post/comment!
http://www.registercitizen.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/doc4aaffe5e480ba654060886.txt

masscph
09-16-2009, 02:50 AM
Has it been determined what Annie is holding? Initially, I thought she was transporting a cumbersome research book. It's not a cat is it? I noticed there is a high school (I think) pic, in this same photo gallery, of her dissecting a cat, and her research involves animals; though I wouldn't expect her to be freely carrying a lab animal outdoors.

This pic registered on the hinky meter for me as well. Since she left all her belongings behind, it seems she wasn't planning to be away for long. Had she been telephoned from the lab and asked to bring over this particular item as a ploy? Did the girl at the door hand it to her and she is jostling to balance it? Is the girl at the door wearing animal handling gloves?

i cannot see anything but a cat in her hands there - it looks 99.9% like a cat.

Gene
09-16-2009, 02:52 AM
I might be totally wrong but we know the following:
1) Ray and his fiance were self-proclaimed "animal lovers", and working in the animal care part of Yale's research facility may mean that they wanted to ensure the animals' wellbeing
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)

Is it not feasible that Annie asked Ray to provide her with a larger animal, like a cat, and since 95% of animals at Yale are rodents, this would be an unusual request. Having a cat himself, this could have infuriated him and they could have gotten into a scuffle with the fiance encouraging him.

I should put a disclaimer though that I'm a vegan and truly hope this is not true since it would bring a bad name to all of us mentally stable animal lovers out there...

No, this is a stretch.

First cat dissection in high school is not atypical.
Second he worked in an animal research facility. If ordering a cat would infuriate him, what he would be seeing on a daily basis would drive him crazy.

Animal research is not pretty. He worked there!

TanyaT
09-16-2009, 02:54 AM
No, this is a stretch.

First cat dissection in high school is not atypical.
Second he worked in an animal research facility. If ordering a cat would infuriate him, what he would be seeing on a daily basis would drive him crazy.

Animal research is not pretty. He worked there!

I think it's undeniable that something did ultimately drive him crazy..

scandi
09-16-2009, 02:55 AM
I might be totally wrong but we know the following:
1) Ray and his fiance were self-proclaimed "animal lovers", and working in the animal care part of Yale's research facility may mean that they wanted to ensure the animals' wellbeing
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)

Is it not feasible that Annie asked Ray to provide her with a larger animal, like a cat, and since 95% of animals at Yale are rodents, this would be an unusual request. Having a cat himself, this could have infuriated him and they could have gotten into a scuffle with the fiance encouraging him.

I should put a disclaimer though that I'm a vegan and truly hope this is not true since it would bring a bad name to all of us mentally stable animal lovers out there...

Gosh, I suppose it is possible but wonder why she would need a different kind of animal if she used mice all the time. Even to carrying mice over to Sterling. Do you mean to disect a cat who had eaten a mouse? Ewwwww :eek:

WELCOME Tanya, It is good to have you here ;}

PrayersForMaura
09-16-2009, 02:55 AM
She has a point! Look at us, all 7 threads of speculation.... It is kind of too much.

Not to me. I was to see justice swiftly served for poor Miss Annie Le.

Labrat
09-16-2009, 02:59 AM
I might be totally wrong but we know the following:
1) Ray and his fiance were self-proclaimed "animal lovers", and working in the animal care part of Yale's research facility may mean that they wanted to ensure the animals' wellbeing
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)

Is it not feasible that Annie asked Ray to provide her with a larger animal, like a cat, and since 95% of animals at Yale are rodents, this would be an unusual request. Having a cat himself, this could have infuriated him and they could have gotten into a scuffle with the fiance encouraging him.

I should put a disclaimer though that I'm a vegan and truly hope this is not true since it would bring a bad name to all of us mentally stable animal lovers out there...

Oh, dear. Annie dissecting a cat in HS would not necessarily be atypical at all- it may have been an AP Bio class, considering her aptitude and interests. Annie was not the only researcher using animals in that facility. Are you making an implication here?

No, it is not feasible that she would ask Ray for a cat. I just don't have the energy or patience to go through it all again, but animal research is very highly regulated and controlled. If the protocol she was working under specified mice, she would not ask for a cat, she would not need a cat, she would never be given a cat, and she would know that. Any change in animal use would require the approval of a new protocol, which would not involve Ray in any way.

SuziQ
09-16-2009, 03:00 AM
Pic #39- is that the woman holding the door?

Could be. She's slender enough.

SuziQ
09-16-2009, 03:03 AM
She has a point! Look at us, all 7 threads of speculation.... It is kind of too much.

Except after Sunday when the body was found, she could have stopped reading the internet, watching tv and any other media reporting on this case.

mollymil23
09-16-2009, 03:20 AM
~snipped~
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)
~snipped


I really don't think dissecting cats in high school is that atypical. I know myself and many, many other classmates before and after me did in Bio, AP Bio, and anatomy/physiology...in both high school and community college. JMO

scandi
09-16-2009, 03:28 AM
Goodnight Friends, My eyes are bulging out and I need a soft feather pillow. lol

I am feeling good tonight as we have learned who this POI is and learned quite a bit of new info. That is progress, inch by inch, even tho we have a long way to go to see Justice for Annie.

I hold my thoughts with her family and loved ones. God Bless them and anyone else tonight who find themselves in a similar situation. I am sure there are many more out there. xox

SFDukie
09-16-2009, 03:28 AM
Hi SuzieQ, I wonder if that is her in pic #9? It looks like the guy resembles Ray, but I could be wrong about that. xox

It's from Le's HS.

scandi
09-16-2009, 03:30 AM
It's from Le's HS.


Thanks SFDukie, It is great to have you aboard ;}

Waddles
09-16-2009, 03:34 AM
Hi SuzieQ, I wonder if that is her in pic #9? It looks like the guy resembles Ray, but I could be wrong about that. xox

sorry but doesn't look like him at all to me

Waddles
09-16-2009, 03:42 AM
In the pic of her going in it looks like she is cradling something heavy (looks cat shaped with the distortion of the photo)-do we know for sure it was a binder? Just doesn't look like how you would hold a heavy binder-mind you she is probably adjusting it to get ready to get through the door

Bit Analyzer
09-16-2009, 03:43 AM
Does anyone think the fire alarm was a diversion, so that Le's body could be moved from one room to another (under the facade of moving animals)?

Waddles
09-16-2009, 03:47 AM
Does anyone think the fire alarm was a diversion, so that Le's body could be moved from one room to another (under the facade of moving animals)?

Quite possibly
I hear they were quite a common occurrence
And could have been the steam like people were saying
I wonder if she herself could have triggered it in a call for help -do they have the alarm switches in the lab where you break the glass to set them off?

STEADFAST
09-16-2009, 03:48 AM
Oh, dear. Annie dissecting a cat in HS would not necessarily be atypical at all- it may have been an AP Bio class, considering her aptitude and interests. Annie was not the only researcher using animals in that facility. Are you making an implication here?

No, it is not feasible that she would ask Ray for a cat. I just don't have the energy or patience to go through it all again, but animal research is very highly regulated and controlled. If the protocol she was working under specified mice, she would not ask for a cat, she would not need a cat, she would never be given a cat, and she would know that. Any change in animal use would require the approval of a new protocol, which would not involve Ray in any way.

:) You mean, you can't say, "Hey, let's try this out on a cat today. I'm so over mice." I really don't see how Annie's dissecting a cat in high school could have anything to do with this case. It's not like your high school biology teacher lets you bring in anything you'd like to dissect. Like millions of high school biology students all over the world, she was assigned a cat to dissect.

What about if RC wasn't taking proper care of the mice? Wouldn't that impact her experiments? Throw in some kind of "off" variable or something? Or maybe he was goofing around with one of the mice, showing off, and she got angry and was trying to get the mouse away from him, and he went ballistic.

Bit Analyzer
09-16-2009, 04:11 AM
In the pic of her going in it looks like she is cradling something heavy (looks cat shaped with the distortion of the photo)-do we know for sure it was a binder? Just doesn't look like how you would hold a heavy binder-mind you she is probably adjusting it to get ready to get through the door

It looks to me that she is cradling and watching something carefully, something live or fragil, instead of carrying a binder. Who knows, perhaps it's windy and the binder is blowing open?

kikid
09-16-2009, 04:15 AM
Search warrant served in Yale slaying: Police say they've executed search warrants on a person of interest.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32854576/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/


NEW HAVEN, Conn. - Police and FBI agents searched the home of a Yale University animal research technician Tuesday night and led him away in handcuffs to the cheers of neighbors in a search for evidence that might tie him to the slaying of a graduate student.

No charges were filed against 24-year-old Raymond Clark III in Middletown, but police took him into custody while searching for DNA and other physical evidence. Police said Clark would be released after they obtain evidence they need from him and his Middletown apartment.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1001&pictureid=8387

more at link.

TravelingBug
09-16-2009, 04:20 AM
Wonder if he was as much of a stickler for shoe covers when he killed Annie as it sounds like he was at other times - something I was afraid we'd find out (that they were worn, eliminating foot/shoe print evidence). While we obviously don't know that yet, the fact that he was big into them makes me think if this was even remotely premeditated that he'd have worn them. I'm hopeful they'll have plenty of evidence, but the more the better, I'd imagine.

Here's an excerpt from the article (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/nyregion/16yale.html?_r=2&hp) that mentions it:

"The researcher said [POI] was “very officious and very demanding” and that [POI] had given some graduate students a hard time.

“For example, you’re supposed to wear shoe covers on your feet, and he would make a big deal of it, instead of just requesting that they wear them,” said the researcher, who asked not to be identified. “I told his supervisor.”

Toi
09-16-2009, 04:24 AM
anyone know where the girlfriend is at the moment?

Mr. Noatak
09-16-2009, 04:49 AM
My opinions:

I will be VERY disappointed if the prime suspect in this case, whoever it is, ends up floating in a river, or likewise. Then we will never know for sure. I want the prime suspect or suspects caught alive so that we all can be sure that this crime is explained and solved.

STEADFAST
09-16-2009, 05:02 AM
". . . In the e-mails, Clark is said to criticize Le for not adhering to the protocols for tending the mice kept in the basement as part of her lab's ongoing experiments.
Le is said to have responded in a conciliatory tone, promising to keep to the protocols. Investigators wonder if Clark was not satisfied, if resentment suddenly flared to rage, if as crazy as it may seem this was a case of mice and murder. . .

. . . the swipe card records from the day Le disappeared show Clark moving from room to room with no apparent logic, at points going to places unrelated to his job . . .

Clark left the building at the time of a fire alarm. Surveillance camera footage is said to show him looking considerably more distraught than could be explained by a simple evacuation. "
BBM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/16/2009-09-16_could_brutal_tale_be_about_mice.html#ixzz0RG53v eT5

shoebox
09-16-2009, 05:07 AM
Have been following this story since the beginning and trying to figure out what could have cause someone to kill Annie at work of all places and in the middle of the day! Seems like such an unlikely place and time to plan to do someone in. It must have been a crime of passion.

From what I read about her, she seems to be a very smart, cheerful, upbeat, hardworking, friendly, and "spunky" individual. Having read that her first response to not being accepted at Princeton was to "send a photo of her rear end to the dean of admissions", I wonder if at times she came off as over confident, arrogant, or rude.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-na-annie-le-profile15-2009sep15,0,1431588.story

From the latest news reports, things are pointing to an animal technician who worked in the lab as the POI/suspect. There is no evidence yet of any romantic notions from either one of them. Perhaps there was some kind of altercation between them in the lab and Annie said something to him that came off rude, offensive or condescending and he being unstable just snapped (afterall, people have been saying that an animal technician is a lowly job, cleaning animal poo from cages). In the heat of the moment, it became physical and he killed her. I happen to think that the fire alarm was no coincidence. He probably set it off so the building could empty and he would have time to move the body and hide it. IIRC, at the end of an autoclav cycle (~30 min), if the door is opened quickly, a lot steam will come out which could possibly set off the alarm. Normally you only crack the door to release steam slowly before fully opening the autoclav door.

Just a theory.

MLE
09-16-2009, 05:08 AM
Any word yet on why it took them so long to ID the body when they knew enough about the body to know it was a female body?

shoebox
09-16-2009, 05:12 AM
Steadfast...just as I was thinking!

Indianagirl
09-16-2009, 05:19 AM
Have been following this story since the beginning and trying to figure out what could have cause someone to kill Annie at work of all places and in the middle of the day! Seems like such an unlikely place and time to plan to do someone in. It must have been a crime of passion.

From what I read about her, she seems to be a very smart, cheerful, upbeat, hardworking, friendly, and "spunky" individual. Having read that her first response to not being accepted at Princeton was to "send a photo of her rear end to the dean of admissions", I wonder if at times she came off as over confident, arrogant, or rude.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-na-annie-le-profile15-2009sep15,0,1431588.story

From the latest news reports, things are pointing to an animal technician who worked in the lab as the POI/suspect. There is no evidence yet of any romantic notions from either one of them. Perhaps there was some kind of altercation between them in the lab and Annie said something to him that came off rude, offensive or condescending and he being unstable just snapped (afterall, people have been saying that an animal technician is a lowly job, cleaning animal poo from cages). In the heat of the moment, it became physical and he killed her. I happen to think that the fire alarm was no coincidence. He probably set it off so the building could empty and he would have time to move the body and hide it. IIRC, at the end of an autoclav cycle (~30 min), if the door is opened quickly, a lot steam will come out which could possibly set off the alarm. Normally you only crack the door to release steam slowly before fully opening the autoclav door.

Just a theory.

I agree, sounds like he probably did just snap. I wonder how long it takes to figure out the location of a fire alarm once it is activated? Seems like activating the fire alarm would bring attention to an area rather than divert it away. Once it sounds, I would think that specific area would be checked out ASAP? This is the only reason I question it was intentionally activated.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 05:20 AM
My opinions:

I will be VERY disappointed if the prime suspect in this case, whoever it is, ends up floating in a river, or likewise. Then we will never know for sure. I want the prime suspect or suspects caught alive so that we all can be sure that this crime is explained and solved.

Welcome to WS Mr Noatak!

claudicici
09-16-2009, 05:30 AM
...I don't think he just snapped...one of the things that make me think he did not just snap over mice or anything like that are the clothes found in a seperate location,which means he took her clothes off before or after the killing...that alone makes me think it he may have been obsessesd with her,fantasized about her and could not handle the thought of her getting married so soon....

Waddles
09-16-2009, 05:30 AM
I agree, sounds like he probably did just snap. I wonder how long it takes to figure out the location of a fire alarm once it is activated? Seems like activating the fire alarm would bring attention to an area rather than divert it away. Once it sounds, I would think that specific area would be checked out ASAP? This is the only reason I question it was intentionally activated.

That was what I was wondering! I thought it could be her but then she probably would have been killed already if he came out at the fire alarm looking distressed

Waddles
09-16-2009, 05:32 AM
...I don't think he just snapped...one of the things that make me think he did not just snap over mice or anything like that are the clothes found in a seperate location,which means he took her clothes off before or after the killing...that alone makes me think it he may have been obsessesd with her,fantasized about her and could not handle the thought of her getting married so soon....

They were his clothes, not hers-we presume removed to hide the blood from the scratches or something
I also think I recall she was fully dressed

STEADFAST
09-16-2009, 05:33 AM
...I don't think he just snapped...one of the things that make me think he did not just snap over mice or anything like that are the clothes found in a seperate location,which means he took her clothes off before or after the killing...that alone makes me think it he may have been obsessesd with her,fantasized about her and could not handle the thought of her getting married so soon....

It was reported that it was his clothes that were found in the ceiling. Maybe a lab coat? According to reports, Annie was found fully clothed. (However, many reports we've heard have turned out to be wrong.)

STEADFAST
09-16-2009, 05:35 AM
Any word yet on why it took them so long to ID the body when they knew enough about the body to know it was a female body?

Even if they know it must be the body, they've got to have DNA or dental records or something to positively, officially identify it.

belimom
09-16-2009, 05:55 AM
Yale Technician in Custody in Student Murder

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,550622,00.html

(Didn't see this posted yet...)


I'm so glad they found him, yet... it says they will release him after gathering the evidence they want (DNA, I'm assuming). Ugh!

It also says his neighbors gathered on balconies and cheered as he was being led away. I'll be at work all day without internet access but I wonder if further arrests will be made.

By the way, I thought all along there was some sort of sexual assault since sources have said the POI had scratches on his chest. To me, I would assume that meant he had his shirt off. (...Unless, the scratches came from another animal - one larger than a rodent - and the abuse issue was not with Annie Le but with the POI... This is farfetched but it's early and my brain can think of odd things in the wee hours. But thought I'd throw it out there for feedback.)

Waddles
09-16-2009, 06:03 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,550622,00.html

(Didn't see this posted yet...)


I'm so glad they found him, yet... it says they will release him after gathering the evidence they want (DNA, I'm assuming). Ugh!

It also says his neighbors gathered on balconies and cheered as he was being led away.

I'll be at work all day without internet access but I wonder if further arrests will be made. By the way, I thought all along there was some sort of sexual assault since sources have said the POI had scratches on his chest. To me, I would assume that meant he had his shirt off. (...Unless, the scratches came from another animal - one larger than a rodent - and the abuse issue was not with Annie Le but with the POI... This is farfetched but it's early and my brain can think of odd things in the wee hours. But thought I'd throw it out there for feedback.)

Yeah I was wondering about the shirt off thing -but then also maybe he was wearing a v-neck under the lab coat or whatever he was wearing and also maybe there was so much force to her clawing at him that it went through his clothes - am wondering too if his fiance was involved. I'm leaning towards an anger thing myself or jealousy or revenge but not sexual -at least not as the primary motive but could have been part of the control thing

sunsetbeach
09-16-2009, 06:16 AM
It's an open binder. It's most likely records or notes pertaining to her mice. There's a lot of distortion in that photo. She left her stuff behind in her lab because it's not appropriate or necessary to bring a purse into an animal facility.
It was originally reported that she had signed up to go to the animal facility at 10. Much later a poster here said he had an inside source that claimed someone called and told her she was needed there right away. I guess this one is still up in the air. I don't know whether to believe the reporters who can't get anything right or the anonymous source:confused:

I saw a perfect photo of that shot the other day (no distortion) on a news site but for the life of me I can not find it now. It was very clear, did anyone else see it? It was from a link that was posted in one of the threads here.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 06:19 AM
I saw a perfect photo of that shot the other day (no distortion) on a news site but for the life of me I can not find it now. It was very clear, did anyone else see it? It was from a link that was posted in one of the threads here.

Thanks-I didn't see it-so it looked like a binder then did it? And was the other girl recognisable?

sunsetbeach
09-16-2009, 06:34 AM
...I don't think he just snapped...one of the things that make me think he did not just snap over mice or anything like that are the clothes found in a seperate location,which means he took her clothes off before or after the killing...that alone makes me think it he may have been obsessesd with her,fantasized about her and could not handle the thought of her getting married so soon....

It was not her clothes (up in the ceiling tiles) ... she had her clothes on.
I assume they belonged to the POI. It has been reported that he came to the building in one set of clothes and left in a different set. If the rumor is true this was seen on video.

sunsetbeach
09-16-2009, 06:38 AM
Thanks-I didn't see it-so it looked like a binder then did it? And was the other girl recognisable?

I'm not sure, I didn't pay a lot of attention at the time.

Dang-it!

Trino
09-16-2009, 06:43 AM
I want to hear the gf's "takes" on RC. Had he "snapped" on her?

MissJames
09-16-2009, 06:44 AM
Yeah I was wondering about the shirt off thing -but then also maybe he was wearing a v-neck under the lab coat or whatever he was wearing and also maybe there was so much force to her clawing at him that it went through his clothes - am wondering too if his fiance was involved. I'm leaning towards an anger thing myself or jealousy or revenge but not sexual -at least not as the primary motive but could have been part of the control thing

JMO,but rapists don't usually bother taking their clothes off.Annie was smart.She knew LE could get DNA evidence from under her nails.She may have reached under his shirt to scratch him if she had the opportunity.God Bless Her! The thought of what she endured just makes me so sad.

sunsetbeach
09-16-2009, 06:47 AM
Forgive me if this has already been posted in another thread.

https://ugsp.nih.gov/scholars_mentors/scholars_d.asp?m=06&id=162&Start_Date=2006

This is Annie when she was at UofR

Momtofour
09-16-2009, 06:51 AM
It seems that his sister, brother-in-law and fiancee all worked in the same lab as animal techs...........


"He did not show up for work Tuesday - and neither did his sister, brother-in-law or fiancée, all of whom work in the same lab and have the same job."


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_cops_set_to_reveal_yale_student_annie_le_cause_ of_death_hope_to_make_arrest_tues.html

Waddles
09-16-2009, 06:53 AM
JMO,but rapists don't usually bother taking their clothes off.Annie was smart.She knew LE could get DNA evidence from under her nails.She may have reached under his shirt to scratch him if she had the opportunity.God Bless Her! The thought of what she endured just makes me so sad.

True, that's very likely actually
So very sad for what she endured too, and that such a brilliant promising scientist was lost

Waddles
09-16-2009, 06:55 AM
It seems that his sister, brother-in-law and fiancee all worked in the same lab as animal techs...........


"He did not show up for work Tuesday - and neither did his sister, brother-in-law or fiancée, all of whom work in the same lab and have the same job."


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_cops_set_to_reveal_yale_student_annie_le_cause_ of_death_hope_to_make_arrest_tues.html

Yes this was discussed last night-it would seem it's not uncommon to have family members in these jobs since they are often advertised internally - nepotism :)

Waddles
09-16-2009, 06:58 AM
I want to hear the gf's "takes" on RC. Had he "snapped" on her?

Neighbours said he was very hard on her, very controlling but she seemed happy enough and must be with him all the way to have attempted to pack and leave-IMO the previous posters speculating she could be involved is quite possible

ges79
09-16-2009, 07:36 AM
I saw a perfect photo of that shot the other day (no distortion) on a news site but for the life of me I can not find it now. It was very clear, did anyone else see it? It was from a link that was posted in one of the threads here.

Yes, someone (can't remember which poster) had a clearer, enlarged surveillance photo. It looked like a binder with a thick book (almost like a phone book) on top.

Trino
09-16-2009, 07:36 AM
Neighbours said he was very hard on her, very controlling but she seemed happy enough and must be with him all the way to have attempted to pack and leave-IMO the previous posters speculating she could be involved is quite possible

Her name is Jennifer Hromadka, according to news reports. However, I have not seen anything from the media or LE that speculates she is a suspect or person of interest. I think she's yet to realize/admit what has actually happened.

Neighbors stated they placed suitcases in a car and sped away, as if to flee, yet media mentions they were watched all week and he was detained from his apartment, making it seem he did not attempt to leave. Another confusing part of this story.

Skigirl
09-16-2009, 07:57 AM
I might be totally wrong but we know the following:
1) Ray and his fiance were self-proclaimed "animal lovers", and working in the animal care part of Yale's research facility may mean that they wanted to ensure the animals' wellbeing
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)

Is it not feasible that Annie asked Ray to provide her with a larger animal, like a cat, and since 95% of animals at Yale are rodents, this would be an unusual request. Having a cat himself, this could have infuriated him and they could have gotten into a scuffle with the fiance encouraging him.

No. Annie would not have asked a tech to get his hands on a cat for her to do research on. The head of the lab (the "PI") makes the decision about what types of animals to work on, and there are lots of procedures for getting lab animals - you would not be able to - I can't stress this enough - be able to just ask a staff member to get an animal for you. No way.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 07:59 AM
Her name is Jennifer Hromadka, according to news reports. However, I have not seen anything from the media or LE that speculates she is a suspect or person of interest.

I think she's yet to realize/admit what has actually happened.

Yes thanks, I knew her name-it's just that not showing for work and attempting to leave implies at least support, maybe not involvement

Chili Fries
09-16-2009, 08:03 AM
Wow, I didn't see that coming. It may have been over him becoming enraged that Annie wasn't using correct protocol with the mice.

He may have called or e-mailed her and told her to come to Amistad and correct what she had done wrong. Seems like his rage, and OCD and control issues, found an outlet in the minutiae of workplace regulations. It's really sad he didn't get some kind of help for his mental health issues that could have prevented this tragedy.

Harmony2
09-16-2009, 08:09 AM
Good morning all!!!

I am five pages behind but wanted to post this touching article about Annie before I delved into reading.


Shayna Mcdonnell, a high school classmate, remembered the studious Le as shy on the outside but goofy on the inside.

"She always teased me that I didn't have a butt," said Mcdonnell, 24, recalling that Le gave her a birthday antidote: a pair of satin panties with shoulder pads sewn in.

Le did her undergraduate work at the University of Rochester; Princeton University had been her first choice, but her dream school turned her down. Her response, recalled former classmate Cierra Silva Montes, was to send a photograph of her rear end to the dean of admissions.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-annie-le-profile15-2009sep15,0,5055517.story

Disregard if already posted...

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 08:12 AM
". . . In the e-mails, Clark is said to criticize Le for not adhering to the protocols for tending the mice kept in the basement as part of her lab's ongoing experiments.
Le is said to have responded in a conciliatory tone, promising to keep to the protocols. Investigators wonder if Clark was not satisfied, if resentment suddenly flared to rage, if as crazy as it may seem this was a case of mice and murder. . .

. . . the swipe card records from the day Le disappeared show Clark moving from room to room with no apparent logic, at points going to places unrelated to his job . . .

Clark left the building at the time of a fire alarm. Surveillance camera footage is said to show him looking considerably more distraught than could be explained by a simple evacuation. "
BBM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/16/2009-09-16_could_brutal_tale_be_about_mice.html#ixzz0RG53v eT5





I just can't imagine Annie being the one who was not following protocols. I think it would be the other way around. Does anybody find it odd that a number of family members worked at the lab? Were they up to something nefarious that Annie was leading onto?

Skigirl
09-16-2009, 08:13 AM
@Harmony2

Annie sent a picture of her rear end to the admissions office when she didn't get into Princeton?? WTH? I don't think that's cute - I think it's bizarre. I guess it's a small thing, but it's a weird thing to do.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 08:18 AM
I just can't imagine Annie being the one who was not following protocols. I think it would be the other way around. Does anybody find it odd that a number of family members worked at the lab? Were they up to something nefarious that Annie was leading onto?

yeah, this was brought up a few times and the answers from those in the know was that it's frequent to have several members of a family in a lab as jobs get advertised internally - but then true, they could have been up to something-especially as each one of them did not show for work after

Chili Fries
09-16-2009, 08:24 AM
I just can't imagine Annie being the one who was not following protocols.

It's not hard to imagine. Lab protocols are very well defined and often tedious and may be unnecessary to follow to the letter of the law. It's definitely not unheard of for somebody to use them for ulterior motives but this guy must have been unbelievably unhinged to get that enraged over them.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 08:26 AM
It's not hard to imagine. Lab protocols are very well defined and often tedious and may be unnecessary to follow to the letter of the law. It's definitely not unheard of for somebody to use them for ulterior motives but this guy must have been unbelievably unhinged to get that enraged over them.


unhinged indeed!

postdoc
09-16-2009, 08:30 AM
I just can't imagine Annie being the one who was not following protocols. I think it would be the other way around. Does anybody find it odd that a number of family members worked at the lab? Were they up to something nefarious that Annie was leading onto?

Given that the RC and his girlfriend are self-proclaimed animal lovers, I wonder whether there may be some truth to this. That said, this is the same source that reported "gruesome animal experiments", so you have to remain skeptical.

Research involving animals is regulated extremely tightly, almost to the point where it can become quite difficult to plan and carry out experiments. A sad fact of research is that many mice are sacrificed as part of experiments, but it is safe to say that in my experience, while they are alive, they are treated with the upmost respect.

I would be very surprised if Annie Le, being relatively new to research, would be working outside established protocols. Rather, I imagine she would be erring on the side of caution.

awakewriter
09-16-2009, 08:31 AM
Really? Over lab protocols?

Still wouldn't be surprised if he was obsessed with her, that e-mails about the mice were just a way to have interaction with her.

shoebox
09-16-2009, 08:32 AM
@Harmony2

Annie sent a picture of her rear end to the admissions office when she didn't get into Princeton?? WTH? I don't think that's cute - I think it's bizarre. I guess it's a small thing, but it's a weird thing to do.


It would be a funny thought but to actually do it ...that's not nice at all.

ilovekitties
09-16-2009, 08:33 AM
Hi I usually lurk, but I had a thought I wanted to share. Forgive me if this has already been floated around. Could it be possible that Annie and Ray had a fling at one point and he couldn't get over it and killed her knowing she was about to marry someone else? I only mention it because I read in another thread that supposedly his fiancee wrote on her blog in 2008 that she was annoyed that there was a rumor that Ray was cheating on her with someone in the animal research lab. And during the press conf last night, a reporter asked what Annie and Ray's relationship was, and the detective paused and seemed like he was going to say something but then just said "They worked at the same Yale facility". The two of them having an affair seems unlikely based on reports about her - she seemed devoted to her fiance and straight as an arrow - but I thought I'd float it out there. If I've learned anything in life it is that anything is possible.

awakewriter
09-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Given that the RC and his girlfriend are self-proclaimed animal lovers, I wonder whether there may be some truth to this. That said, this is the same source that reported "gruesome animal experiments", so you have to remain skeptical.

Research involving animals is regulated extremely tightly, almost to the point where it can become quite difficult to plan and carry out experiments. A sad fact of research is that many mice are sacrificed as part of experiments, but it is safe to say that in my experience, while they are alive, they are treated with the upmost respect.

I would be very surprised if Annie Le, being relatively new to research, would be working outside established protocols. Rather, I imagine she would be erring on the side of caution.

I'm just confused as to why a person who loves animals enough to murder a human being would work in a place where animals are killed - even if the mice are treated with respect during life. It just doesn't add up.

We also have a report from a neighbor that he kept his dog in a crate all day. Someone who is nuts about animal rights likely wouldn't do that. (Of course, the neighbor reports aren't necessarily accurate.)

If the motive was about protocol with the mice, I'm guessing the motive was protocol, not animal rights.

I think it would likely have more to do with an obsessive need to have protocol/procedures followed to the letter.

postdoc
09-16-2009, 08:38 AM
I'm just confused as to why a person who loves animals enough to murder a human being would work in a place where animals are killed - even if the mice are treated with respect during life. It just doesn't add up.

We also have a report from a neighbor that he kept his dog in a crate all day. Someone who is nuts about animal rights likely wouldn't do that. (Of course, the neighbor reports aren't necessarily accurate.)

If the motive was about protocol with the mice, I'm guessing the motive was protocol, not animal rights.

I think it would likely have more to do with an obsessive need to have protocol/procedures followed to the letter.

I agree - I does not make sense. It seems more likely - as someone else mentioned - that the protocol issue was used as excuse to interact with Annie Le to satisfy an infactuation. Of course, I could be completely wrong.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 08:39 AM
Really? Over lab protocols?

Still wouldn't be surprised if he was obsessed with her, that e-mails about the mice were just a way to have interaction with her.

I think it was love interest PLUS something else.

awakewriter
09-16-2009, 08:39 AM
Hi I usually lurk, but I had a thought I wanted to share. Forgive me if this has already been floated around. Could it be possible that Annie and Ray had a fling at one point and he couldn't get over it and killed her knowing she was about to marry someone else? I only mention it because I read in another thread that supposedly his fiancee wrote on her blog in 2008 that she was annoyed that there was a rumor that Ray was cheating on her with someone in the animal research lab. And during the press conf last night, a reporter asked what Annie and Ray's relationship was, and the detective paused and seemed like he was going to say something but then just said "They worked at the same Yale facility". The two of them having an affair seems unlikely based on reports about her - she seemed devoted to her fiance and straight as an arrow - but I thought I'd float it out there. If I've learned anything in life it is that anything is possible.

Good point, and we don't know if perhaps Annie and her boyfriend took a break at some point.

Avery
09-16-2009, 08:43 AM
IMO, I don't think it was a sexual thing either. POI, probably has a past of being very "controlling". I can see a scenerio of two indivduals being roughly the same age. Annie clearly had so much going for her and from what we've heard carries, a "big stick" and doesn't take crap from anyone. POI, probably hated the fact that a girl of same age can have more authority than he because of the path that her life was taking...getting a high level degree, having influence in this academic setting. The only thing he had control of were the rodents in this setting. I suspect we will hear in coming days that more than Annie had problems with this particular tech. I also suspect that knowing what we know of Annie thus far, he probably had some encounters with her based on "rodent issues", and Annie probably rubbed him the wrong way. Obviously someone with such control issues probably stewed on the fact that Annie had more power, given her position. I think the longer this went on, his anger turned into rage.

I do feel better that the basement or at least the part of it that the murder took place and then the moving he did from room to room has less of a chance for the defense to scream contaimination since getting into those rooms in the basement would have required those card swipes.

Avery
09-16-2009, 08:46 AM
Isn't it crazy though, that this guy went back to the same place that he did this because the police didn't close the now "crime scene". Work as usual for him. He probably cleaned his mess for the next few days. Wow! This investigation went so horribly wrong at the beginning I'm afraid.

mikeysmommom
09-16-2009, 08:50 AM
http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd94445b1458928171.txt

He was released at 3am.

sunsetbeach
09-16-2009, 08:51 AM
@Harmony2

Annie sent a picture of her rear end to the admissions office when she didn't get into Princeton?? WTH? I don't think that's cute - I think it's bizarre. I guess it's a small thing, but it's a weird thing to do.

I "think" I read that she just thought about doing that but didn't actually do it. I read that this morning somewhere, will see if I can find it again.

Kimmer
09-16-2009, 08:51 AM
Well here is my cents on this whole dang mess....I think that the POI was someone that made Annie feel very uncomfortable possible for a variety of reasons, he possibly had a crush on her and was stalking her, or they just plain and simple did not like one another, the fact that she had a job that was higher up than his could have also contributed to the conflict..

Then you take the fact that as Labrat has stated when you are working within a close proximity as people who work in labs for numerous hours a day, I am sure that Annie had made comments to some of her co-workers that the POI was weird and made her feel uncomfortable, well once she says that and it starts going around the office it probably would not have taken much to get back to the POI girlfriend, sister and brother-in-law..This may have been the reason that the girlfriend stated on her myspace page that RC was NOT having an affair with a girl in the lab....Now instead of having just 1 person that is giving you crap at work you have 4 and they are for all intensive purposes family....This alone could have caused alot of stress at home for the POI and all the family members keep chatting about what a B**CH this girl in the lab is and blah blah blah.....At this point I think the POI thought well if she just disappears right before her wedding they will think she just got cold feet and took off...

I think if we ever get the true story of what happened in this case you would find out that the POI planned on going back into the lab and putting Annie in a suitcase and rolling her out to the parking garage and poof she is gone, and therefore so is the problem for him and his family....You can also use this same theory if he was stalking her and upset that she was getting ready to marry...But the POI did not plan on this thing blowing up as fast or as big as it did, and he therfore had no way to get her out of that building...

But I certainly do not think this had anything to do with protocols or mice, but I do think that for someone in that low of a level position to be complaining about someone with her degree of education shows that there was no love lost between these two and he wanted to get her in trouble...

I hope this makes sense being typed out cause it makes sense in my mind...

RayStar
09-16-2009, 08:56 AM
http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd94445b1458928171.txt

He was released at 3am.Wow, there must be a good reason for his release. Maybe LE is waiting for test results.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 08:56 AM
Isn't it crazy though, that this guy went back to the same place that he did this because the police didn't close the now "crime scene". Work as usual for him. He probably cleaned his mess for the next few days. Wow! This investigation went so horribly wrong at the beginning I'm afraid.

Excellent point! DO we know that he was back at work for days? I guess so, why not? Did police shut off that room the day Annie went missing, or did they not yet know that that would be the crime scene? Maybe what was left in the ceiling was a mistake by the killer, residual from a bunch of clothes. If you think of it, if he had access over days why would he have left that stuff in the ceiling? Surely he had the time and opportunity to remove everything. I bet the killer was devising a way to remove the body -- but time ran out. What if Annie hadn't been repored missing till the next morning? I wonder if the killer was planning a middle of the night trip to the lab.

jadejazzkayla
09-16-2009, 08:57 AM
The girlfriend is the one most likely to have tipped LE that RC came home from work last Tuesday with different clothes on since they live together.

Someone recognized the bloody clothing found in the ceiling tiles as belonging to RC. My guess it was her.

sunsetbeach
09-16-2009, 08:58 AM
@Harmony2

Annie sent a picture of her rear end to the admissions office when she didn't get into Princeton?? WTH? I don't think that's cute - I think it's bizarre. I guess it's a small thing, but it's a weird thing to do.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-na-annie-le-profile15-2009sep15,0,1431588.story


<snip> Le did her undergraduate work at the University of Rochester; Princeton University had been her first choice, but her dream school turned her down. Her response, recalled former classmate Cierra Silva Montes, was to send a photograph of her rear end to the dean of admissions.




It doesn't actually say she did it.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 08:59 AM
Kimmer...I was posting about middle of the night return to the lab just as you were posting the same theory.

shoebox
09-16-2009, 09:00 AM
Not trying to make her look bad but maybe whenever they interacted at work she talked to him in a belittling way (for whatever reason). Maybe she didn't even realize it. Eventually over a long period of time the resentment built up inside of him. The mice incident may have been the last straw. Maybe they exchanged some harsh words. She called him this or that or told him to kiss her butt (along the lines of what she did to the Princeton dean of admissions). He being not so rational goes ballistic.

Just trying to understand what could push someone over the brink.

jadejazzkayla
09-16-2009, 09:02 AM
Wow, there must be a good reason for his release. Maybe LE is waiting for test results.

He was brought in to have his dna taken. When they finished getting it, he was free to go home.

jamiect
09-16-2009, 09:02 AM
Really? Over lab protocols?

Still wouldn't be surprised if he was obsessed with her, that e-mails about the mice were just a way to have interaction with her.

Agree, I do not think she was killed over mice. This is more of a male wanting absolute control over female. Jealousy, lust, obsession?

I will not be surprised if she was sexually assaulted.

JMO

Momtofour
09-16-2009, 09:14 AM
The girlfriend is the one most likely to have tipped LE that RC came home from work last Tuesday with different clothes on since they live together.

Someone recognized the bloody clothing found in the ceiling tiles as belonging to RC. My guess it was her.

IIRC, the police chief stated that the person he lived with tipped off police about coming home wearing different clothing and having scratches on his chest.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 09:16 AM
IIRC, the police chief stated that the person he lived with tipped off police about coming home wearing different clothing and having scratches on his chest.

It looks like they served warrants at two locations. His place AND a place he shared with his fiancee.

ilovekitties
09-16-2009, 09:16 AM
you guys always post interesting links, but for some reason almost every time I try to access them, it says "page not found". anyone else having this problem?

MissJames
09-16-2009, 09:16 AM
The girlfriend is the one most likely to have tipped LE that RC came home from work last Tuesday with different clothes on since they live together.

Someone recognized the bloody clothing found in the ceiling tiles as belonging to RC. My guess it was her.

I actually thought they noticed the different clothing on the surveillance video.They were pouring over them,frame by frame,to get a glimpse of Annie leaving.They would have been able to see him and note what clothes he had on.That's just my guess.

Avery
09-16-2009, 09:18 AM
IIRC, the police chief stated that the person he lived with tipped off police about coming home wearing different clothing and having scratches on his chest.


That makes sense that someone did tip LE off because they only had a warrant for body search yesterday. Otherwise LE wouldn't have been able to look at his bare chest before the warrant, right?

MissJames
09-16-2009, 09:25 AM
Really? Over lab protocols?

Still wouldn't be surprised if he was obsessed with her, that e-mails about the mice were just a way to have interaction with her.

What if RC and his girlfriend infiltrated the lab as animal techs in order to document what goes on there? Maybe from a PETA -type group?

awakewriter
09-16-2009, 09:27 AM
What if RC and his girlfriend infiltrated the lab as animal techs in order to document what goes on there? Maybe from a PETA -type group?

I suppose it's possible. Still, he worked there for four years, didn't he?

Waddles
09-16-2009, 09:30 AM
That makes sense that someone did tip LE off because they only had a warrant for body search yesterday. Otherwise LE wouldn't have been able to look at his bare chest before the warrant, right?

think he was interviewed along with many others and failed a lie detector test and the scratches seemed apparent - or yes maybe they were told to look for them-then he asked for a lawyer

jadejazzkayla
09-16-2009, 09:36 AM
It looks like they served warrants at two locations. His place AND a place he shared with his fiancee.

They served two warrents. One was his residence the other was his person or his body if you will, so they could get his dna.

jamiect
09-16-2009, 09:40 AM
you guys always post interesting links, but for some reason almost every time I try to access them, it says "page not found". anyone else having this problem?

Can you direct me to a particular link, so I can verify.

ilovekitties
09-16-2009, 09:42 AM
for instance, this one that Ray Star posted: http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd...1458928171.txt

jamiect
09-16-2009, 09:43 AM
for instance, this one that Ray Star posted: http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd...1458928171.txt

I get blank screen

Waddles
09-16-2009, 09:43 AM
for instance, this one that Ray Star posted: http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd...1458928171.txt

http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd94445b1458928171.txt

this works

nursebeeme
09-16-2009, 09:44 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/

GMA

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 09:44 AM
They served two warrents. One was his residence the other was his person or his body if you will, so they could get his dna.

They towed the car. Wonder if they did it out of an abundance of caution or whether they have info tthat he car may yield evidence.

jamiect
09-16-2009, 09:45 AM
http://www.rep-am.com/news/doc4ab0dd94445b1458928171.txt

this works

TY, works for me.

Kimmer
09-16-2009, 09:45 AM
Kimmer...I was posting about middle of the night return to the lab just as you were posting the same theory.

great minds---well u know the rest LOL

Waddles
09-16-2009, 09:45 AM
I get blank screen

anyway this news is all over the place just google his name and get the same news article or go to http://www.rep-am.com and click on the article

Waddles
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/

GMA

these guys say he's still in custody but he was released at 3am according to others

Chili Fries
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
Suspect had run-in with cops in high school over break up with girlfriend:

"The detective wrote that subsequently the girlfriend came with her mother to the station to speak to him.

She “wished to tell me of an incident that took place, however, did not want it
pursued by this Department,” the detective wrote. “She stated that she had been having a sexual relationship with [the male] and that at one time [the male] did force her to have sex with him. The relationship did continue after that incident, however she is unsure of what he may do as a result of the break up."

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/alleged_annie_l.php

Roy23
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
Well here is my cents on this whole dang mess....I think that the POI was someone that made Annie feel very uncomfortable possible for a variety of reasons, he possibly had a crush on her and was stalking her, or they just plain and simple did not like one another, the fact that she had a job that was higher up than his could have also contributed to the conflict..

Then you take the fact that as Labrat has stated when you are working within a close proximity as people who work in labs for numerous hours a day, I am sure that Annie had made comments to some of her co-workers that the POI was weird and made her feel uncomfortable, well once she says that and it starts going around the office it probably would not have taken much to get back to the POI girlfriend, sister and brother-in-law..This may have been the reason that the girlfriend stated on her myspace page that RC was NOT having an affair with a girl in the lab....Now instead of having just 1 person that is giving you crap at work you have 4 and they are for all intensive purposes family....This alone could have caused alot of stress at home for the POI and all the family members keep chatting about what a B**CH this girl in the lab is and blah blah blah.....At this point I think the POI thought well if she just disappears right before her wedding they will think she just got cold feet and took off...

I think if we ever get the true story of what happened in this case you would find out that the POI planned on going back into the lab and putting Annie in a suitcase and rolling her out to the parking garage and poof she is gone, and therefore so is the problem for him and his family....You can also use this same theory if he was stalking her and upset that she was getting ready to marry...But the POI did not plan on this thing blowing up as fast or as big as it did, and he therfore had no way to get her out of that building...

But I certainly do not think this had anything to do with protocols or mice, but I do think that for someone in that low of a level position to be complaining about someone with her degree of education shows that there was no love lost between these two and he wanted to get her in trouble...

I hope this makes sense being typed out cause it makes sense in my mind...


I think some of what you say makes a ton of sense. I would imagine that he was trying to get that body out of there.

I wonder if Raymond was just an anal personality and he was teased by Annie and her friends. At first glance, this seems like a crime of passion with the upcoming wedding but now I wonder. He is somewhat of a handsome dude who probably has had relationships. I kind of doubt he killed because he could not have her. I guess we will see.

shoebox
09-16-2009, 09:50 AM
The girlfriend is the one most likely to have tipped LE that RC came home from work last Tuesday with different clothes on since they live together.

Someone recognized the bloody clothing found in the ceiling tiles as belonging to RC. My guess it was her.

I read somewhere that his father was living with him and his girlfriend (sorry don't have link). I also remember that a reporter went to the home asking for RC and a male (the father I guess) came to the door and said he wasn't home. So maybe the father tipped off the LE.

nursebeeme
09-16-2009, 09:52 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5313935n&tag=contentBody;cbsCarousel

cbs early show

*he also had an office at the sterling building....
"there's no romance involved in this"

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 09:54 AM
Suspect had run-in with cops in high school over break up with girlfriend:

"The detective wrote that subsequently the girlfriend came with her mother to the station to speak to him.

She “wished to tell me of an incident that took place, however, did not want it
pursued by this Department,” the detective wrote. “She stated that she had been having a sexual relationship with [the male] and that at one time [the male] did force her to have sex with him. The relationship did continue after that incident, however she is unsure of what he may do as a result of the break up."

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/alleged_annie_l.php
Thanks Chili. THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES. Does anybody have any doubt that this now has some sort of unrequited love or sexual aspect to it?

liljim
09-16-2009, 09:57 AM
im surprised that they didnt come up with a reason to hold him if they in fact have the evidence that has been mentioned, im sure they didnt feel very good about releasing him even tho i understand that they were required to, they must have been scrambling (i hope) to come up with some reason to not let him go.

clothing change, scratches, suveillance video, bloody clothing that should be easy to tie to him... i havent had time to read everything - did he cooperate when he was asked to be interviewed/questioned?

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 09:57 AM
“The two are in a relationship which [the girlfriend] wishes to terminate and [the male] does not wish to end it. [The male] did attempt to confront [the student] on this date and also wrote on her locker. The school will handle this incident concerning the locker and at the time of this report, [the lab tech] was advised to have no contact with” the female student.

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/a...ed_annie_l.php

Waddles
09-16-2009, 09:57 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5313935n&tag=contentBody;cbsCarousel

cbs early show

*he also had an office at the sterling building....
"there's no romance involved in this"

interesting thanks

awakewriter
09-16-2009, 09:58 AM
No romance involved. OK. That doesn't rule out obsession.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 09:59 AM
Can't watch the video. Who said "no romance"? And I know this is going to sound stupid -- but not all sexual contact is romance.

jadejazzkayla
09-16-2009, 10:00 AM
I actually thought they noticed the different clothing on the surveillance video.They were pouring over them,frame by frame,to get a glimpse of Annie leaving.They would have been able to see him and note what clothes he had on.That's just my guess.

i heard on a spot a few days ago on the news that said it was someone he lived with. that's why i'm guessing the girlfriend. then last night after the press conference was shown the news reporter said "an aquaintance of his recognized the bloody clothing".

it was fox 61 news out of hartford.

IWannaKnow
09-16-2009, 10:02 AM
There was mention of him keeping his dog in a crate all day. That is not necessarily abusive. Crate training a dog, especially if kept in an apartment, is often the better way to go. He sounds to me like he is very animal oriented (as well as his family), and my first thought was that Annie either violated protocol or something went wrong in the lab, which caused the urgent phone call. She comes running with a thick book (wonder what that was???Lab protocol???), an argument ensues and he strangles her. He seemed to take his job seriously, and perhaps felt he was protecting the animals from as much abuse as possible, KWIM? If he felt Annie somehow put the animals in jeopardy, or was threatening his job....:twocents:

As an aside, I used to work with autoclaves every day. That would NOT be a way to dispose of evidence. Anything placed in an autoclave must be clean, it is to sterilize - not clean. You would simply be left with a huge mess in the bottom of the autoclave - might destroy DNA - but that would be the only benefit, IMO. He might have opened it early to cause the steam alarm in order to cover his tracks leaving....lot less likely to be seen/examined in a group of people, rather than alone.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 10:03 AM
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/a...ed_annie_l.php (http://http://www.newhavenindependent.org/a...ed_annie_l.php)

maggieo
09-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Can't watch the video. Who said "no romance"? And I know this is going to sound stupid -- but not all sexual contact is romance.

Apparently LE said that. I think the implication is that Annie and the tech weren't having an affair. As someone noted above, that doesn't rule out sexual assault or whatever.

Coolmomof4
09-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Has anyone seen this http://www.techbanyan.com/5088/jennifer-hromadka-ray-clark/ and the comment made by mark? Is this to suggest that RC's girlfriend worked in the same building? Can anyone confirm that this is true?

Sorry if this has already been answered... but yes, I posted yesterday that according to the Yale directory, she and her boyfriend (suspect) both have offices in the same building as Annie Le (Sterling Medical bldg) but work in the labs at Amistad.

rdm64
09-16-2009, 10:04 AM
Given that the RC and his girlfriend are self-proclaimed animal lovers, I wonder whether there may be some truth to this. That said, this is the same source that reported "gruesome animal experiments", so you have to remain skeptical.

Research involving animals is regulated extremely tightly, almost to the point where it can become quite difficult to plan and carry out experiments. A sad fact of research is that many mice are sacrificed as part of experiments, but it is safe to say that in my experience, while they are alive, they are treated with the upmost respect.

I would be very surprised if Annie Le, being relatively new to research, would be working outside established protocols. Rather, I imagine she would be erring on the side of caution.

Wrong. Research on mice is not regulated extremely tightly and barely regulated at all. They are not covered under the animal welfare act
these facilities can go through thousands of mice and rats a month.

The only regulations are not really regulations but a set of standards of care that only apply to federally funded projects (and often student work is not) and those are loose and self reported.
If you or I or any amateur with no credentials or professional or academic with credentials, wished to buy 100 lab mice and see how long it took to blind them by dipping them in an ammonia solution, or how they reacted to pain of needles stuck in them or how long they lived in a hot oven -- we would not be breaking any laws. (don't get me wrong all of that sounds terrible to me)

I think this whole animal rights thing for this case is a compelty off the tracks and not supported by a shred of evidence. everything points to unrequited obsession or less likely but still possible, a badly ended affair. Animal rights activism is something in its lighter forms most people would agree with and in its more sever forms something most people consider fringe, ie most people thing it is wrong to beat a dog, but not wrong to own aquarium fish or step on a bug. It is a potlitcal issue though and I think people are sticking their poltics into a crime which has nothign to do with animal rights, animal welfare or either the sober or nutty people concerned with it.

nursebeeme
09-16-2009, 10:05 AM
Can't watch the video. Who said "no romance"? And I know this is going to sound stupid -- but not all sexual contact is romance. an LE source said it. It was a quote.

If there was any sexual contact in this case it was most likely rape and that is about control... not romance (imho)

nursebeeme
09-16-2009, 10:06 AM
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32873577#32873577

maggieo
09-16-2009, 10:06 AM
As an aside, I used to work with autoclaves every day. That would NOT be a way to dispose of evidence. Anything placed in an autoclave must be clean, it is to sterilize - not clean. You would simply be left with a huge mess in the bottom of the autoclave - might destroy DNA - but that would be the only benefit, IMO. He might have opened it early to cause the steam alarm in order to cover his tracks leaving....lot less likely to be seen/examined in a group of people, rather than alone.

Is it possible the autoclave was used not for the body but for something else -- to sterilize his clothes, weapon, etc?

t93
09-16-2009, 10:08 AM
I get blank screen


I get blank screen too-I use Firefox. Can it be it only works with IE?

esqgerl
09-16-2009, 10:08 AM
"A fellow animal technician said yesterday that Clark would have been intimately familiar with the basement where Le’s body was found because he spent most of his day in just two or three rooms there, tending to the research animals and cleaning their cages. The technician, who was told not to talk to the press, said Clark had worked at Yale for a few years, though his sister and her husband have worked at Yale for much longer."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/16/employee-detained-police-call-him-person-interest/

"Clark entered the building after Le, and moved throughout the building in an erratic way, cops told the Daily News."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_cops_set_to_reveal_yale_student_annie_le_cause_ of_death_hope_to_make_arrest_tues.html

Sola.N
09-16-2009, 10:09 AM
A few things make me think this. In one article that was linked earlier, someone from the lab was quoted as saying that he had recently had a huge issue with the research staff not using shoe covers. We've also seen anecdotes from acquaintances that mentioned he was domineering with his current girlfriend. And now we see this article about the high school girlfriend and how possessive and physically aggressive he was.

My theory -- and it's JUST a theory -- is that it drove him nuts to be a low level employee surrounded by people who are smarter, richer, and more educated. The insistence on the shoe covers would be one of the only ways to assert dominance over them.

It would be interesting to see what was in those emails from him to Le about the mice. I think we'd see more attempted dominance.

rdm64
09-16-2009, 10:09 AM
There was mention of him keeping his dog in a crate all day. That is not necessarily abusive. Crate training a dog, especially if kept in an apartment, is often the better way to go. He sounds to me like he is very animal oriented (as well as his family), and my first thought was that Annie either violated protocol or something went wrong in the lab, which caused the urgent phone call. She comes running with a thick book (wonder what that was???Lab protocol???), an argument ensues and he strangles her. He seemed to take his job seriously, and perhaps felt he was protecting the animals from as much abuse as possible, KWIM? If he felt Annie somehow put the animals in jeopardy, or was threatening his job....:twocents:

As an aside, I used to work with autoclaves every day. That would NOT be a way to dispose of evidence. Anything placed in an autoclave must be clean, it is to sterilize - not clean. You would simply be left with a huge mess in the bottom of the autoclave - might destroy DNA - but that would be the only benefit, IMO. He might have opened it early to cause the steam alarm in order to cover his tracks leaving....lot less likely to be seen/examined in a group of people, rather than alone.

if he did set off the alarm the most likely thing was he did so not to leave but to move the body from the scene of the killing to the access area in the wall.

As far as blood the most likely only blood is his own from defensive scratch marks while strangling her.

As far as this thing with animals, protocols etc it is becoming absurd speculation. If anything he was probably highly desensitized to the welfare of the laboratory rodents.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:09 AM
Here's a pic of Jen at her friend's shower
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=18106201&albumID=742116&imageID=11295555#a=742116&i=11295575

third one from left

Also, in case people aren't familiar with MySpace, all you have to do is click on the picture to view the rest of the pictures in that album...there are several pictures with J in them. I've saved them all to my computer.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 10:12 AM
Also, in case people aren't familiar with MySpace, all you have to do is click on the picture to view the rest of the pictures in that album...there are several pictures with J in them. I've saved them all to my computer.

Anything interesting in the photos?

MomofBoys
09-16-2009, 10:13 AM
Agree, I do not think she was killed over mice. This is more of a male wanting absolute control over female. Jealousy, lust, obsession?

I will not be surprised if she was sexually assaulted.

JMO

Of course, someone unstable enough to murder someone could feasily get riled up over something irrational.

I do agree with you, though. I do think this has to do with jealousy. I also don't think it matters if he's relatively good looking or has a fiance. People want who they want, and a lot of people don't stop wanting because they have a significant other.

I've just thought since this case broke that it was some guy angry that she was getting married. Maybe he never let on to the fact that he liked her, but she probably talked about the wedding a LOT (whether with him or other co-workers in his vicinity) and he let his obsession with it fester. Maybe it'll come out that he felt pressured into his own wedding (although, it wasn't exactly imminent) and those pressures and Annie made him reevaluate that.

All I know is that his fiancee is very lucky this all came about, because if he did do it...she likely would have been next. Or, if you don't take it that far, if Annie hadn't (likely) rebuked any advances that might have occurred, she would have been the target, I bet.

I mean, sure, it could have been over some sort of work-related jealousy, but that'd be totally bizarre. The levels of education in this case are so dispirate. The only scenario I think makes sense is that Annie, more than once, overrode his suggestions when it came to the animals and he grew tired of the "Annie, Annie, Annie!" sentiment around the lab. But, to me, that doesn't sound like a motive unless he already had deep-ceded issues with controlling women in his life.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:13 AM
hello all !

im new here :/ but been following the case, and the thread here, and its an incredible site you got here.

But someone here posted a a link to YaleDailyNews's twitter here, when i went in i saw a brief "contact us" to a twitterprofile, when i reloaded the page it was gone.

Went to the twitterprofile, and heres what it said (that was just some time before the arrest):



You can see it yourself on the profile: http://twitter.com/alicialutes

But what triggered me was that the editor asked for the profile to contact them, and then suddenly all hell broke loose. But if its true, then he already got some history of violence ( restraining order ).

This is an incredible find! Has anyone found backup to this yet? I'm going to attempt public records...not sure of the town so need to go through a few :( If this is true, how very sad. (as she sheds a tear)

Coolmomof4
09-16-2009, 10:14 AM
I might be totally wrong but we know the following:
1) Ray and his fiance were self-proclaimed "animal lovers", and working in the animal care part of Yale's research facility may mean that they wanted to ensure the animals' wellbeing
2) Annie dissected cats in high school which is pretty atypical as far as I know, and her research heavily relied on the use of animals (rodents, albeit, but animals nonetheless)

Is it not feasible that Annie asked Ray to provide her with a larger animal, like a cat, and since 95% of animals at Yale are rodents, this would be an unusual request. Having a cat himself, this could have infuriated him and they could have gotten into a scuffle with the fiance encouraging him.

I should put a disclaimer though that I'm a vegan and truly hope this is not true since it would bring a bad name to all of us mentally stable animal lovers out there...

You're right, it is not common to dissect cats in regular high school courses...It is more common in advanced courses. I dissected one in a high school anatomy and physiology course my junior year. That was in the 90s. It would be strange to use a cat in a lab (per my experiences). JMO

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:15 AM
Please forgive me, masscph...WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!

shoebox
09-16-2009, 10:15 AM
Is it possible the autoclave was used not for the body but for something else -- to sterilize his clothes, weapon, etc?

The autoclav only kills germs (and living cells). There is not much point in sterilizing clothes or weapons because it cannot wash off the blood or fingerprints.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:16 AM
You're right, it is not common to dissect cats in regular high school courses...It is more common in advanced courses. I dissected one in a high school anatomy and physiology course my junior year. That was in the 90s. It would be strange to use a cat in a lab (per my experiences). JMO

I disected frogs, cats (yes, plural), snakes, and my senior year was a cow's brain.

Rainsbee
09-16-2009, 10:16 AM
hello all !

im new here :/ but been following the case, and the thread here, and its an incredible site you got here.

But someone here posted a a link to YaleDailyNews's twitter here, when i went in i saw a brief "contact us" to a twitterprofile, when i reloaded the page it was gone.

Went to the twitterprofile, and heres what it said (that was just some time before the arrest):



You can see it yourself on the profile: http://twitter.com/alicialutes

But what triggered me was that the editor asked for the profile to contact them, and then suddenly all hell broke loose. But if its true, then he already got some history of violence ( restraining order ).



I looked through the online court file last night for their current county, but did not find a restraining order. Just the traffic infraction.

Muffet
09-16-2009, 10:17 AM
A few things make me think this. In one article that was linked earlier, someone from the lab was quoted as saying that he had recently had a huge issue with the research staff not using shoe covers. We've also seen anecdotes from acquaintances that mentioned he was domineering with his current girlfriend. And now we see this article about the high school girlfriend and how possessive and physically aggressive he was.

My theory -- and it's JUST a theory -- is that it drove him nuts to be a low level employee surrounded by people who are smarter, richer, and more educated. The insistence on the shoe covers would be one of the only ways to assert dominance over them.

It would be interesting to see what was in those emails from him to Le about the mice. I think we'd see more attempted dominance.

I agree with this. I also notice that people, both men and women, are even less cool with seeing pretty, feminine females hold power or excel "too much."

Having said that, I'm bothered that they let him go and apparently don't have enough evidence to arrest him yet. I missed several pages yesterday, so wonder, how sure are we that this is the right guy? If he turns out to be the wrong one, oh my...

ThoughtFox
09-16-2009, 10:18 AM
"A fellow animal technician said yesterday that Clark would have been intimately familiar with the basement where Le’s body was found because he spent most of his day in just two or three rooms there, tending to the research animals and cleaning their cages. The technician, who was told not to talk to the press, said Clark had worked at Yale for a few years, though his sister and her husband have worked at Yale for much longer."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/16/employee-detained-police-call-him-person-interest/

"Clark entered the building after Le, and moved throughout the building in an erratic way, cops told the Daily News."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/15/2009-09-15_cops_set_to_reveal_yale_student_annie_le_cause_ of_death_hope_to_make_arrest_tues.html

Thanks so much for that information - wow!


As far as this thing with animals, protocols etc it is becoming absurd speculation. If anything he was probably highly desensitized to the welfare of the laboratory rodents.
I agree - I think this was about the way this guy treated women, and nothing to do with rats. It just makes sense with what we know about the case so far.

jamiect
09-16-2009, 10:19 AM
J&R's MySpace

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=jenniferhromadka&d=76699779140482&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=3635a804,feb6ae8b

Waddles
09-16-2009, 10:24 AM
Wrong. Research on mice is not regulated extremely tightly and barely regulated at all. They are not covered under the animal welfare act
these facilities can go through thousands of mice and rats a month.

The only regulations are not really regulations but a set of standards of care that only apply to federally funded projects (and often student work is not) and those are loose and self reported.
If you or I or any amateur with no credentials or professional or academic with credentials, wished to buy 100 lab mice and see how long it took to blind them by dipping them in an ammonia solution, or how they reacted to pain of needles stuck in them or how long they lived in a hot oven -- we would not be breaking any laws. (don't get me wrong all of that sounds terrible to me)

I think this whole animal rights thing for this case is a compelty off the tracks and not supported by a shred of evidence. everything points to unrequited obsession or less likely but still possible, a badly ended affair. Animal rights activism is something in its lighter forms most people would agree with and in its more sever forms something most people consider fringe, ie most people thing it is wrong to beat a dog, but not wrong to own aquarium fish or step on a bug. It is a potlitcal issue though and I think people are sticking their poltics into a crime which has nothign to do with animal rights, animal welfare or either the sober or nutty people concerned with it.

Hold on a sec-keeping fish in a very spacious, uncrowded and well filtered aquarium is perfectly humane and replicates or even improves on their conditions in the wild

liljim
09-16-2009, 10:24 AM
i agree that there is nothing yet to suggest this had anything to do with animal rights/treatment, but i would not be surprised if there is no sexual angle and that it could have been simply a matter of her exerting authority over him in some way that he could not handle (given the info regarding his prior behavoir with women).

still finding it hard to believe they couldnt find a way to hold him given all the little details that are coming out, you must figure they know a good bit more by now yet still had to release him.

im slightly leaning towards it being a primarily work related argument that led to her death, i highly doubt it was planned, unless he is one of the dumbest criminals ever doing something like this in such a secure building. i suppose there is an equal chance that he might have been making advances towards her and just lost it when she sternly rejected him or something like that too.

whatever the details end up being will not change how much of a tragedy it is, and how infuriating and unsettling it is to know that things like this happen regularly in the world.

:(

IWannaKnow
09-16-2009, 10:26 AM
Is it possible the autoclave was used not for the body but for something else -- to sterilize his clothes, weapon, etc?

maggieo - sure, he could have sterilized anything in there, but it wouldn't achieve the result he desired. It would still be covered in any debris that was on it.....he would have had to throughly wash the items first, plus the autoclave would have cooked anything left on the items to a hard crust.


if he did set off the alarm the most likely thing was he did so not to leave but to move the body from the scene of the killing to the access area in the wall. Possible, but equally speculatory, unless you have inside information.

As far as blood the most likely only blood is his own from defensive scratch marks while strangling her. I never suggested large amounts of blood. I stated I believed he strangled her. That amount of blood would be impossible to clean up even partially....simply trying to answer some of the autoclave questions, K?

As far as this thing with animals, protocols etc it is becoming absurd speculation. If anything he was probably highly desensitized to the welfare of the laboratory rodents. Again, possible, but equally speculatory, unless you have inside information. We really are just here to exercise our detective/speculatory abilities anyway, no?
************************************************** **********

I think my answer is being misconstrued. I don't exactly think this was about animal rights. I think it was about control. And if POI felt that the animals were under his control, then what he says should go, ditto with foot covers. Annie didn't seem to be the type to accept that. Maybe my original post didn't reflect that properly. All I'm trying to say is that IN MY OPINION a conflict over the animals started this, and it escalated into murder. No romance, no affair.

jadejazzkayla
09-16-2009, 10:27 AM
could someone post a video from this link? i don't know how. i've been trying to get it right for a while but can't.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/yale-annie-le/

the tenth video labeled : 9/15 New Haven Police Press Conference Det... (3:51)
Tom Lewis is reporting a few minutes after RC was taken away from his house last night. thanks.


oops. i guess you can just click on that video!

TexasLil
09-16-2009, 10:28 AM
I disected frogs, cats (yes, plural), snakes, and my senior year was a cow's brain.

Cow's brain? Don't tell me Dr. Guffy was your teacher.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:28 AM
I have a question that one of our scientists may know the answer to. I'm not sure how I feel about this dismemberment thing, yet. However, if Annie scratched the perp, could they have cut off her fingers and put them into an autoclave to sterilize the dna underneath of her nails? If only fingers were cut off, would that be considered dismemberment? I seriously have no idea the technicalities with the term dismemberment. I know it's a stretch...just thinkin'.

Also, Annie was asphyxiated. This does not necessarily mean she was strangled. She could have had a rag put over her nose/face, she could have been injected with something to choke her, she could have had something stuffed inside of her mouth...there's many different methods that could be used to asphyxiate. Just wanted to throw that out there.

And I hope this next question doesn't get lost in this thread...but...do we know that every person that had access to that area was given a lie detector test - or was the only person to have a poly the poi? We do know that around 200 people were interviewed by police. I wonder if RC's girlfriend & family members were given the poly. What about if the girlfriend took RC's lab attire and is the actual one that did this...maybe RC knew something, which would throw his poly off? That's a stretch...but just maybe, ya never know.

Does anyone find it ironic that a letter was sent to the State of CT by the Jovin family and all of a sudden they crack down on the POI? I do. Is there a reason the 2 adults, JH & RC were seen getting into a car on SUNDAY with suitcases and it takes law enforcement a couple of days to get a search warrant to search his residence? What was in the suitcases? Could there be evidence that is not obtainable now?

Editing b/c I originally put Levin. It's the Suzanne Jovin family's letter to CT that I am referring to.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 10:29 AM
I looked through the online court file last night for their current county, but did not find a restraining order. Just the traffic infraction.
Sounds like this stuff may have happened when he was under 18 which means it would be sealed.

sniperacer
09-16-2009, 10:31 AM
No problem at all!


Hey LABrat :crazy: -

I've heard there were 5 folks in/out the basement lab around the time in question.

Does that number sound reasonable? Would there always be one person?

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 10:33 AM
I have a question that one of our scientists may know the answer to. I'm not sure how I feel about this dismemberment thing, yet. However, if Annie scratched the perp, could they have cut off her fingers and put them into an autoclave to sterilize the dna underneath of her nails? If only fingers were cut off, would that be considered dismemberment? I seriously have no idea the technicalities with the term dismemberment. I know it's a stretch...just thinkin'.

Also, Annie was asphyxiated. This does not necessarily mean she was strangled. She could have had a rag put over her nose/face, she could have been injected with something to choke her, she could have had something stuffed inside of her mouth...there's many different methods that could be used to asphyxiate. Just wanted to throw that out there.

And I hope this next question doesn't get lost in this thread...but...do we know that every person that had access to that area was given a lie detector test - or was the only person to have a poly the poi? We do know that around 200 people were interviewed by police. I wonder if RC's girlfriend & family members were given the poly. What about if the girlfriend took RC's lab attire and is the actual on that did this...maybe RC knew something, which would throw his poly off? That's a stretch...but just maybe, ya never know.

Does anyone find it ironic that a letter was sent to the State of CT by the Levin family and all of a sudden they crack down on the POI? I do. Is there a reason the 2 adults, JH & RC were seen getting into a car on SUNDAY with suitcases and it takes law enforcement a couple of days to get a search warrant to search his residence? What was in the suitcases? Could there be evidence that is not obtainable now? Police don't do lie detector tests willy nilly -- got to get the technician, etc -- only for real suspects. I would guess he's the only one who was poly-ed. And don't forgert NOBODY IS COMPELLED TO TAKE A POLY TEST, EVER. A court couldn't even order it. They simply don't recognize them.

Who is Levin family and what is this letter?

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:34 AM
Anything interesting in the photos?

No, just general pics of the bridesmaids. It's interesting for me, though, b/c it helps with the faces to figure out whose MySpace pages belong to whom.

Puffster, have any of your sources let onthat another person may know something? Possibly even know something "during" instead of "after the fact"? Anything suspected? If it's not just a rumor, if it's really true that she was dismembered, and if she was severely dismembered (not just a couple of cuts), then there would have been alot of blood. Blood spurts...could actually fly due to pressure buildup, if in fact she was dismembered in teh general sense that someone thinks of the definition. If that's true, wouldn't the perp have needed assistance in cleanup and sterilization? Something just isn't sitting right with me.

gogrannypop
09-16-2009, 10:37 AM
I disected frogs, cats (yes, plural), snakes, and my senior year was a cow's brain.

We did pregnant pigs in high school Anatomy. (1970's)

Coolmomof4
09-16-2009, 10:38 AM
Just a thought or two about the supposed scratches on RC's chest...

That to me would point toward a sexual assault. If he had just choked her, wouldn't the scratches be on his hands?? If his hands were around her neck, she would be grabbing at his hands, not scratching at his chest?

postdoc
09-16-2009, 10:38 AM
Wrong. Research on mice is not regulated extremely tightly and barely regulated at all. They are not covered under the animal welfare act
these facilities can go through thousands of mice and rats a month.

The only regulations are not really regulations but a set of standards of care that only apply to federally funded projects (and often student work is not) and those are loose and self reported.
If you or I or any amateur with no credentials or professional or academic with credentials, wished to buy 100 lab mice and see how long it took to blind them by dipping them in an ammonia solution, or how they reacted to pain of needles stuck in them or how long they lived in a hot oven -- we would not be breaking any laws. (don't get me wrong all of that sounds terrible to me)

I think this whole animal rights thing for this case is a compelty off the tracks and not supported by a shred of evidence. everything points to unrequited obsession or less likely but still possible, a badly ended affair. Animal rights activism is something in its lighter forms most people would agree with and in its more sever forms something most people consider fringe, ie most people thing it is wrong to beat a dog, but not wrong to own aquarium fish or step on a bug. It is a potlitcal issue though and I think people are sticking their poltics into a crime which has nothign to do with animal rights, animal welfare or either the sober or nutty people concerned with it.

I agree the animal rights issue is a stretch, but I would not be surprised if was an angle used by RC to commincate with Annie, and perhaps there was no other common ground between them.

Regarding regulations for working with rodents - these are very strict. In order to work with animals, Annie would have to have undertaken specialized training and certification, and had her name placed on any "animal protocols" relvenent to what she was doing. She simply would be unable to undertake animal research without being approved by the proper regulatory commitee (IACUC specifically).

Like I said, animals are killed as part of research, but everything that happens to that animal up to and including euthanasia is done to minimise distress to the animal. This goes right down to issues such as cage overcrowding, maintaingws clean bedding, fresh water and food. In many cases, it is particularly advantageous for the animals to be as free from stress as possible, otherwise this can introduce unwanted artifacts into any data gathered.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:39 AM
Police don't do lie detector tests willy nilly -- got to get the technician, etc -- only for real suspects. I would guess he's the only one who was poly-ed. And don't forgert NOBODY IS COMPELLED TO TAKE A POLY TEST, EVER. A court couldn't even order it. They simply don't recognize them.

Who is Levin family and what is this letter?

OMG - I'm reading something about Carl Levin and put the wrong name! What a moron I am! It's Suzanne Jovin I was referring to. I feel so bad. I'm editing my post now...

razzyberry
09-16-2009, 10:39 AM
This guy sounds borderline personality disorder or bipolar or both. Sounds like he took his job really serious and wanted all the rules and his rules followed too. I think he just snapped, rage, killed her. Non sexual. (supposedly her clothes were on) Not Premediated. If he was planning to kill her he would not have done it where he worked with tons of people around.

Thats just what i think.

Coolmomof4
09-16-2009, 10:40 AM
We did pregnant pigs in high school Anatomy. (1970's)

I did too... forgot about that, and frogs, fish, worms, grasshoppers, pigeons, cats, rats..... I ended up giving up my dream of being a researcher, and became a teacher instead.

Sola.N
09-16-2009, 10:43 AM
I agree with this. I also notice that people, both men and women, are even less cool with seeing pretty, feminine females hold power or excel "too much."

Exactly. That is even more the case where I live in the South. I suspect it's also a "class" phenomenon.

A lot of people love and admire the pretty, smart girl, but there are also those who resent the hell out of her. And in some cases, that resentment turns pathological.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 10:43 AM
Just a thought or two about the supposed scratches on RC's chest...

That to me would point toward a sexual assault. If he had just choked her, wouldn't the scratches be on his hands?? If his hands were around her neck, she would be grabbing at his hands, not scratching at his chest?

There might have been a fight before the asphyxiating- he had scratches on his arms too-and she may have used a lot of force through his clothes so scratched through his clothes to his chest or gone under the shirt - but yes I'm surprised his face was not clawed at too

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 10:43 AM
OMG - I'm reading something about Carl Levin and put the wrong name! What a moron I am! It's Suzanne Jovin I was referring to. I feel so bad. I'm editing my post now...

haha no prob...i do that stuff all the time. it could have been worse!!!!

f_stills
09-16-2009, 10:44 AM
I am still interested in the animal-- specifically mice-- detail, especially since members here have started discussing the Daly article at the New York Daily News about the mice emails. Several members in a previous thread also discussed lab procedure in relation to mice. Since reading that, every mice detail reported in Le case has stuck out to me. Especially since news sources lately have not been emphasizing an unrequited love/crime of passion type aspect of this case (with CBS going as far as quoting someone on there being “no romance” involved), but rather have repeatedly mentioned the animals.

The Fox 61 News report floated the theory that there might be an animal “abuse” angle to the case. We know Clark is an animal lab technician who cleaned cages and took care of mice (along with having many pets at his home, including a caged pit bull). Another NYDN article stated that Clark “does menial work with animals in a lab that does gruesome animal testing.” In the AP article that christee linked to last night, mice are mentioned in relation to Le: that she worked in a laboratory in which experiments with mice take place, and that her body was located in the basement, which the writer states houses mice used for scientific research by a number of Yalies.

A New York Times article published yesterday afternoon also mentioned mice twice in relation to Le, specifically stating that she did experiments with mice and then specifically quoting a fellow student who said she was often seen transporting the mice on a cart between her office and the research building.

Are those just random details? The mice email story was published AFTER the articles and video clips just discussed were. NYDN specifically remarked that the animal testing was “gruesome,” and then the next morning came out with the information about emails and mice protocol. We know Le’s research work was on metabolic changes in proteins… yet news sources seem to be emphasizing that she worked with mice. Maybe there really is something to the animal abuse/mice angle that the news sources have info on but cannot yet discuss in full, but are making sure to mention in their stories.

I apologize if that sounds too ridiculous!

Rainsbee
09-16-2009, 10:45 AM
Sounds like this stuff may have happened when he was under 18 which means it would be sealed.

I filed a restraining order on behalf of a minor child once (my daughter) and it is public. It went under my name. If she was a minor, then it would be under her parent's name.

kikid
09-16-2009, 10:48 AM
this raised my brow a bit, it's a quote from their myspace page...


I'm 22 years old and recently moved to Middletown, CT with my wonderful boyfriend Ray (we are just together for financial reason though hahaha).
...........

I have realized in the last few weeks the kind of people I want and need in my life. I have no time for your drama or your BS take it somewhere else. It is not my problem that you have no life! I am completely done! Don't come to me when your "friends" stab you in the back I don't want to know about it cause I don't care. Other than that I am just being myself enjoying life and trying (it's hard) not to let petty people get to me. ................

And I know you wouldn't hesitate to jump on a plane to kick the trashemia infested skanks ass.

makes me wonder exactly when this was written and who she was referencing exactly.... the part about being together for financial reasons was curious as well, wondering if that's what was said of her by someone??

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 10:49 AM
Police don't do lie detector tests willy nilly -- got to get the technician, etc -- only for real suspects. I would guess he's the only one who was poly-ed. And don't forgert NOBODY IS COMPELLED TO TAKE A POLY TEST, EVER. A court couldn't even order it. They simply don't recognize them.

Who is Levin family and what is this letter?

Right, I know this, just wanted to throw it out there. Question that's in the back of my mind is I think they only administered the poly to him b/c they suspected him due to the scratches involved. I know it can't be used against him in court, but wondering why he would consent to one in the first place...unless his lawyer told him to. Also, was his lawyer present when they came to take him in last night? Do you know? Back to the poly question...maybe they didn't like all of his answers so they performed a poly due to the surrounding circumstances, to help lead them in an appropriate direction. What about if the others just "lied" better, therefore polys weren't administered to them...or maybe they just didn't give consent. I'm kind of stuck on somebody else being involved, also...just in the back of my mind, that is.

t93
09-16-2009, 10:50 AM
I was in an advanced science class in high school where we dissected pregnant animals. Our animals came from shelters. This was late 80's.


I can't imagine Annie Le being a target for animal abuse because she worked under someone else's orders-wouldn't that person take the brunt of the blame?

Seems to me that either she was chosen to bear the brunt of the blame in his mind because she was the smallest and easiest in his mind to bully, or it was an excuse to hurt someone whose personality did not mesh with his. Was her sense of humor too light in his eyes, making a mockery of what he perceived to be serious business?

Truthful Lies
09-16-2009, 10:52 AM
@Harmony2

Annie sent a picture of her rear end to the admissions office when she didn't get into Princeton?? WTH? I don't think that's cute - I think it's bizarre. I guess it's a small thing, but it's a weird thing to do.

I think it's hysterical and shows that she had a light heart and good sense of humor. I wouldn't personally do it...but I'm sure it was anonymous and I would laugh quite hard if I were opening the mail.

postdoc
09-16-2009, 10:54 AM
Are those just random details? The mice email story was published AFTER the articles and video clips just discussed were. NYDN specifically remarked that the animal testing was “gruesome,” and then the next morning came out with the information about emails and mice protocol. We know Le’s research work was on metabolic changes in proteins… yet news sources seem to be emphasizing that she worked with mice. Maybe there really is something to the animal abuse/mice angle that the news sources have info on but cannot yet discuss in full, but are making sure to mention in their stories.

I apologize if that sounds too ridiculous!

Not at all. The Bennett Lab is interested in a class of enymes (proteins) which are important in regulating how cells respond to extracellular signals - such as hormonal (eg: insulin) stimulation. Annie was basically interested in how these enzymes are involved in regulating metabolism, and this information may have relevance to diabetes, as well as other diseases such as cancer.

My guess is she was probably doing a lot of glucose tolerance tests in the animal facility. Basically fasting mice, giving them an injection of glucose, and then monitoring how well the mouse deals with the elevated blood sugar. Nothing more than taking a blood sample every 15 minutes.

I am sure some mice were sacrificed to look at the metabolic changes in verious tissues - perhaps lipid accumulation in the liver etc. These experiments (terminal) would have been done back in the Bennett lab, and would involve euthanizing the animal prior to dissecting the relevant organs.

Hope this helps :)

Velouria
09-16-2009, 10:54 AM
this raised my brow a bit, it's a quote from their myspace page...


...........
................


makes me wonder exactly when this was written and who she was referencing exactly.... the part about being together for financial reasons was curious as well, wondering if that's what was said of her by someone??


Agree with you, kikid. And I suppose one could chalk it up to the casual nature of MySpace, but never would I mistake this girl for an English major. Isn't she a Yale student as well?

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 10:56 AM
hello all !

im new here :/ but been following the case, and the thread here, and its an incredible site you got here.

But someone here posted a a link to YaleDailyNews's twitter here, when i went in i saw a brief "contact us" to a twitterprofile, when i reloaded the page it was gone.

Went to the twitterprofile, and heres what it said (that was just some time before the arrest):



You can see it yourself on the profile: http://twitter.com/alicialutes

But what triggered me was that the editor asked for the profile to contact them, and then suddenly all hell broke loose. But if its true, then he already got some history of violence ( restraining order ).

alicialutesI think I have tweeter's remorse.
10 minutes ago from web

passionflower
09-16-2009, 10:58 AM
My grandson is in pre vet university and yes he had to dissect many animals in his 2 years of high school in biology classes, then in pre vet it has been chickens, pregnant pigs and others he never mentions now since we all weny YUCK!
Sorry that's how they learn. As an animal lover he had a hard time with it.
We all did, but it is for the health of live animals later. IMO

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Right, I know this, just wanted to throw it out there. Question that's in the back of my mind is I think they only administered the poly to him b/c they suspected him due to the scratches involved. I know it can't be used against him in court, but wondering why he would consent to one in the first place...unless his lawyer told him to. Also, was his lawyer present when they came to take him in last night? Do you know? Back to the poly question...maybe they didn't like all of his answers so they performed a poly due to the surrounding circumstances, to help lead them in an appropriate direction. What about if the others just "lied" better, therefore polys weren't administered to them...or maybe they just didn't give consent. I'm kind of stuck on somebody else being involved, also...just in the back of my mind, that is.
Scratches...tells me he had some on arms. Unless they asked and he opened took off his shirt. Poly most probably before lawyer -- VERY UNLIKELY lawyer says OK to poly. Clark was released to LAWYER after dna take.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:02 AM
alicialutesI think I have tweeter's remorse.
10 minutes ago from web

I believe it's possible to view the Twitter cache even if the a/c is marked private...can't one just clear out their temp files so the ip isn't linked or tracked & try to view again? I'm going to do a search on that name and if I can get the page to come up, I'll take a snapshot of it...

passionflower
09-16-2009, 11:03 AM
When is the next presser? any news on if he was really released?
I have seen both released 3 am and not???
This is a most confusing case........is it because 2 LE involved?
YALE and city???

nursebeeme
09-16-2009, 11:03 AM
Jgirl,
It is back up

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:03 AM
O/T, after the first autopsy I sat in on, I ate peanuts for months...and nothing cooked...especially spaghetti.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:04 AM
Jgirl,
It is back up

Good morning. What's back up? Are you talking about Twitter?

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 11:05 AM
When is the next presser? any news on if he was really released?
I have seen both released 3 am and not???
This is a most confusing case........is it because 2 LE involved?
YALE and city???

Confirmed released at 3am.

belyenochi
09-16-2009, 11:07 AM
This guy sounds borderline personality disorder or bipolar or both. Sounds like he took his job really serious and wanted all the rules and his rules followed too. I think he just snapped, rage, killed her. Non sexual. (supposedly her clothes were on) Not Premediated. If he was planning to kill her he would not have done it where he worked with tons of people around.

Thats just what i think.

I have BPD & know others with BPD or bipolar, and I have to disagree with that. Control issues, yes, but I would hesitate to 'diagnose' him because of unstable behavior. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder#DSM-IV-TR_criteria & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_diagnostic_criteria_for_bipolar_disorder) It brings a negative stigma to people who actually suffer from mental illness when people jump to such conclusions. Very few people with such a diagnosis would kill someone.

Lorma
09-16-2009, 11:07 AM
http://www.newsday.com/columnists/joye-brown/registry-slain-yale-student-fiance-aimed-to-give-back-1.1447841
Re: their Macy's wedding registry..

Celt1997
09-16-2009, 11:07 AM
alicialutesI think I have tweeter's remorse.
10 minutes ago from web

Interesting that all of the tweets concerning this case are now gone. This morning the mention of knowing the POI was still there, but that too is now gone.

Mendara
09-16-2009, 11:08 AM
The simple theory is almost always the answer. She arrived at the Lab to work, he saw her saw his chance to asault her, did assault her and it went too far and then he tried to hide her. Maybe it could have been anyone, but she arrived just as the thoughts were entering his mind.

scandi
09-16-2009, 11:09 AM
Morning All, How long do you think it will take to get his DNA tests back? Dr Baden says it can be done in 2 or 3 days.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 11:09 AM
Interesting that all of the tweets concerning this case are now gone. This morning the mention of knowing the POI was still there, but that too is now gone.

you mean from this one person or in general?

Torsade
09-16-2009, 11:12 AM
I have a question that one of our scientists may know the answer to. I'm not sure how I feel about this dismemberment thing, yet. However, if Annie scratched the perp, could they have cut off her fingers and put them into an autoclave to sterilize the dna underneath of her nails? If only fingers were cut off, would that be considered dismemberment? I seriously have no idea the technicalities with the term dismemberment. I know it's a stretch...just thinkin'.

Also, Annie was asphyxiated. This does not necessarily mean she was strangled. She could have had a rag put over her nose/face, she could have been injected with something to choke her, she could have had something stuffed inside of her mouth...there's many different methods that could be used to asphyxiate. Just wanted to throw that out there.

And I hope this next question doesn't get lost in this thread...but...do we know that every person that had access to that area was given a lie detector test - or was the only person to have a poly the poi? We do know that around 200 people were interviewed by police. I wonder if RC's girlfriend & family members were given the poly. What about if the girlfriend took RC's lab attire and is the actual one that did this...maybe RC knew something, which would throw his poly off? That's a stretch...but just maybe, ya never know.

Does anyone find it ironic that a letter was sent to the State of CT by the Jovin family and all of a sudden they crack down on the POI? I do. Is there a reason the 2 adults, JH & RC were seen getting into a car on SUNDAY with suitcases and it takes law enforcement a couple of days to get a search warrant to search his residence? What was in the suitcases? Could there be evidence that is not obtainable now?

Editing b/c I originally put Levin. It's the Suzanne Jovin family's letter to CT that I am referring to.

Jersey Girl, autoclaves kill germs. DNA is not a germ. I believe the DNA would be intact after autoclaving. That doesn't mean the perp knew this, though.

passionflower
09-16-2009, 11:13 AM
http://www.newsday.com/columnists/joye-brown/registry-slain-yale-student-fiance-aimed-to-give-back-1.1447841

Such a beutiful couple with big hearts........

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Morning All, How long do you think it will take to get his DNA tests back? Dr Baden says it can be done in 2 or 3 days.

Ironic that you ask this b/c I was astonished when I heard Baden (and Lee on another station) say it could take 24-72 hours...KNOWING FULL WELL THAT YALE'S AMISTAD BUILDING DOES THIS VERY SAME DNA TESTING AND IS A BETTER LAB IMO THAN THE FBI'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Celt1997
09-16-2009, 11:15 AM
you mean from this one person or in general?

I think the other tweets were set to private, but this person had a tweet mentioning that they knew the POI in middle school. I can't find that tweet anywhere on their page now. And it was there, up until they mentioned having "tweeter's remorse."

Waddles
09-16-2009, 11:16 AM
Interesting that all of the tweets concerning this case are now gone. This morning the mention of knowing the POI was still there, but that too is now gone.

did I miss something here-was there something else apart from them being step cousins or something and the cousin not thinking much of POI?

Adrienne37
09-16-2009, 11:17 AM
I don't think this case had anything at all to do with the animals. I believe he was infatuated with Annie, approached her, she rebuffed him and his advances, he killed her. I do have to question why this piece of crap was let out of jail last night. I find that totally reprehensible. If he flunked the lie detector as was reported and had scratches on him to suggest that he had been in an altercation, I'm sure they could have put him on a 48-hour hold pending further evaluation. Had this case happened anywhere else but Yale University, there would have been a swift resolution; however, it's very apparent that they are doing any and everything in their power to keep up their appearances, i.e., Ivy League, nothing bad happens here. It's really disgusting to me to think that someone who is a suspect in a brutal murder is out wandering the streets where he could possibly be a threat to some other woman.

Harmony2
09-16-2009, 11:18 AM
I think it's hysterical and shows that she had a light heart and good sense of humor. I wouldn't personally do it...but I'm sure it was anonymous and I would laugh quite hard if I were opening the mail.

I do too, even though I do not think she actually went through with it but may have just been her first thought and joked about it with friends. Moreover I interpret it to show she was confident, tenacious, headstrong, stood her ground and had gumption. Pair that with a controlling, lab tech who has low self esteem who may have been simmering and simmering for awhile about percieved slights by her and it is possible that he snapped and killled her.

Just food for thought...

passionflower
09-16-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't think this case had anything at all to do with the animals. I believe he was infatuated with Annie, approached her, she rebuffed him and his advances, he killed her. I do have to question why this piece of crap was let out of jail last night. I find that totally reprehensible. If he flunked the lie detector as was reported and had scratches on him to suggest that he had been in an altercation, I'm sure they could have put him on a 48-hour hold pending further evaluation. Had this case happened anywhere else but Yale University, there would have been a swift resolution; however, it's very apparent that they are doing any and everything in their power to keep up their appearances, i.e., Ivy League, nothing bad happens here. It's really disgusting to me to think that someone who is a suspect in a brutal murder is out wandering the streets where he could possibly be a threat to some other woman.

I agree, this is politics of YALE!

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 11:21 AM
I think the other tweets were set to private, but this person had a tweet mentioning that they knew the POI in middle school. I can't find that tweet anywhere on their page now. And it was there, up until they mentioned having "tweeter's remorse."

But that makes sense, doesn't it? She tweeted that she knew him and then got bombarded. I already know who she is and where she works.

Celt1997
09-16-2009, 11:23 AM
But that makes sense, doesn't it? She tweeted that she knew him and then got bombarded. I already know who she is and where she works.

Oh, I'm certain she got bombarded. We know from other tweets that disappeared that the Yale Daily immediately contacted her, and I'm sure it snowballed from there.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:25 AM
Jersey Girl, autoclaves kill germs. DNA is not a germ. I believe the DNA would be intact after autoclaving. That doesn't mean the perp knew this, though.

Follow me for one sec...I know that...but I'm wondering if it could help "cook" (with disinfecting liquid) what was underneath her nails. Trust me, this was just a brainstorm...nothing more. I'm trying to figure out why they would use the term "dismemberment" in the news and also report that she was found "in" her clothes. Could dismemberment pertain to being cut-up-very-badly? I thought they were 2 different meanings. That's why I'm throwing the dumb autoclave thing out there...I know, shouldn't have brought it up, huh?

passionflower
09-16-2009, 11:28 AM
When RC was allowed to be released to his home, will LE have a surveilance on him?
How can LE be positive he will stay there?
I just don't understand the system of the LE in this.
If not arrested, RC is a free man and can go any where he pleases.
He doesn't even have a bil.
Remember what happened to Maria Lauderbach's killer?
That monster ran to Mexico!

heartfortruth
09-16-2009, 11:29 AM
The simple theory is almost always the answer. She arrived at the Lab to work, he saw her saw his chance to asault her, did assault her and it went too far and then he tried to hide her. Maybe it could have been anyone, but she arrived just as the thoughts were entering his mind.

I can't keep up with all the younger and more "agile" brains on here so I'm going to risk looking as "fluff- headed" as I am and ask:

Has it been established that she DID go to the lab to "work"? I thought I had read somewhere that she got a call asking her to bring "something" to the Amistad building and that was what she was doing but she did not go there to actually work right then: she left her purse, keys, phone at Sterling.Can anyone set me straight on this? And if she did get a call to go to Amistad does anyone know from whom she received the call / request? TIA if you can help me out. You "guys" are amazing!!!:smile:

jnTexas
09-16-2009, 11:31 AM
J&R's MySpace

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=jenniferhromadka&d=76699779140482&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=3635a804,feb6ae8b

this myspace has now been deleted.

last night when i was reading over it the education section stated high school. So I don't think they are students at any college.

passionflower
09-16-2009, 11:32 AM
Follow me for one sec...I know that...but I'm wondering if it could help "cook" what was underneath her nails. Trust me, this was just a brainstorm...nothing more. I'm trying to figure out why they would use the term "dismemberment" in the news and also report that she was found "in" her clothes. Could dismemberment pertain to being cut-up-very-badly? I thought they were 2 different meanings. That's why I'm throwing the dumb autoclave thing out there...I know, shouldn't have brought it up, huh?

Annie was so tiny.........I don't understand the 'took her apart'
BUT behind my washer/dryer is a chase with the wires and plumbing......
the service panel is only about 12x12 inches. Did RC have to get her through a panel like that? meaning some of her would go through and others couldn't fit??? I'm sick with thinking of this..........

razzyberry
09-16-2009, 11:32 AM
I have BPD & know others with BPD or bipolar, and I have to disagree with that. Control issues, yes, but I would hesitate to 'diagnose' him because of unstable behavior. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder#DSM-IV-TR_criteria & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_diagnostic_criteria_for_bipolar_disorder) It brings a negative stigma to people who actually suffer from mental illness when people jump to such conclusions. Very few people with such a diagnosis would kill someone.

I NEVER said his possible personality disorders were the reason he may have killed someone. I said he wanted his rules followed and he snapped. I never related the 2, was simply an observation and was my OPINION

postdoc
09-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Follow me for one sec...I know that...but I'm wondering if it could help "cook" (with disinfecting liquid) what was underneath her nails. Trust me, this was just a brainstorm...nothing more. I'm trying to figure out why they would use the term "dismemberment" in the news and also report that she was found "in" her clothes. Could dismemberment pertain to being cut-up-very-badly? I thought they were 2 different meanings. That's why I'm throwing the dumb autoclave thing out there...I know, shouldn't have brought it up, huh?

I *think* autoclaving will degrade DNA, but maybe not to the point to where it becomes useless for forensic purposes. I did a quick Google search but could not find anything conclusive.

Sola.N
09-16-2009, 11:33 AM
I never go anywhere without my cell phone and my Blackberry. I'm on call 24/7, but even if I weren't, I would not go ANYWHERE without my cell. It's a personal safety thing.

How close together were the two buildings? Maybe they were close enough together and she walked between them so often that it almost felt like the same building?

Shutterfly
09-16-2009, 11:34 AM
I think two people are going to wind up in jail before it's overwith. In spite of all of the speculation, rumor and changing reports.....I still get the sense that one person started it, and the other came in behind that person and finished it. Just based on what I've read from the GF, I'd guess she could be quite the protective one over HER man, whether it was issues relating to relationships OR job related matters. She says he won't speak up for himself, remember?

Columbo
09-16-2009, 11:36 AM
FWIW, I have one dog I had to put in a kennel in my house before he outgrew being distructive. Nothing was safe, carpets, walls, furniture. I didn't dare leave the house without putting him in his kennel. It's a common practice for people who work.

That's true, in some cases it isn't abusive at all to "kennel" a dog for the night or during the day.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 11:37 AM
A researcher at another Yale lab in the building where Ms. Le’s body was found said that Mr. Clark had not been at work for several days. Besides his companion, his sister and brother-in-law also work as animal research technicians at Yale.

The researcher said Mr. Clark was “very officious and very demanding” and that Mr. Clark had given some graduate students a hard time.

Ann Marie Goodwin, a resident at a Victorian-style house in New Haven where Mr. Clark and his companion lived until about a year ago, described him as “very unsociable.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/nyregion/16yale.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22raymond%20clark%22&st=cse (http://http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/nyregion/16yale.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22raymond%20clark%22&st=cse)

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:37 AM
Annie was so tiny.........I don't understand the 'took her apart'
BUT behind my washer/dryer is a chase with the wires and plumbing......
the service panel is only about 12x12 inches. Did RC have to get her through a panel like that? meaning some of her would go through and others couldn't fit??? I'm sick with thinking of this..........

I have absolutely no idea. I originally read that there was a "hidden door panel" for the chase (area where she was found). Originally, I found that the panel was around 5 feet but the space 2ft deep, then it was reported 2ft X 2ft. Now I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. Puffster may know...

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 11:38 AM
I think two people are going to wind up in jail before it's overwith. In spite of all of the speculation, rumor and changing reports.....I still get the sense that one person started it, and the other came in behind that person and finished it. Just based on what I've read from the GF, I'd guess she could be quite the protective one over HER man, whether it was issues relating to relationships OR job related matters. She says he won't speak up for himself, remember?

What up with the family all getting ino the car with suitcases?

postdoc
09-16-2009, 11:40 AM
This is from the Journal: Forensic Science International: Genetics (2009)

UV irradiation and autoclave treatment for elimination of contaminating DNA from laboratory consumables
Lisa A. Gefrides, a, , Mark C. Powella, Michael A. Donleya and Roger Kahna

aHarris County Medical Examiner's Office, Forensic Biology Laboratory, 1885 Old Spanish Trail, Houston, TX 77054, United States

Abstract

Laboratories employ various approaches to ensure that their consumables are free of DNA contamination. They may purchase pre-treated consumables, perform quality control checks prior to casework, and use in-house profile databases for contamination detection. It is better to prevent contamination prior to DNA typing than identify it after samples are processed. To this end, laboratories may UV irradiate or autoclave consumables prior to use but treatment procedures are typically based on killing microorganisms and not on the elimination of DNA. We report a systematic study of UV and autoclave treatments on the persistence of DNA from saliva. This study was undertaken to determine the best decontamination strategy for the removal of DNA from laboratory consumables. We have identified autoclave and UV irradiation procedures that can eliminate nanogram quantities of contaminating DNA contained within cellular material. Autoclaving is more effective than UV irradiation because it can eliminate short fragments of contaminating DNA more effectively. Lengthy autoclave or UV irradiation treatments are required. Depending on bulb power, a UV crosslinker may take a minimum of 2 h to achieve an effective dose for elimination of nanogram quantities of contaminating DNA (>7250 mJ/cm2). Similarly autoclaving may also take 2 h to eliminate similar quantities of contaminating DNA. For this study, we used dried saliva stains to determine the effective dose. Dried saliva stains were chosen because purified DNA as well as fresh saliva are less difficult to eradicate than dried stains and also because consumable contamination is more likely to be in the form of a collection of dry cells.

Columbo
09-16-2009, 11:41 AM
Here is a twitter account of someone claiming to be RC step cousin and his tweets say some very interesting things like, he probably did it, and hes not all there etc.

http://twitter.com/VINRICH

His tweets are now "protected"..you can't look at them.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 11:41 AM
I never go anywhere without my cell phone and my Blackberry. I'm on call 24/7, but even if I weren't, I would not go ANYWHERE without my cell. It's a personal safety thing.

How close together were the two buildings? Maybe they were close enough together and she walked between them so often that it almost felt like the same building?

They were a bit of a hike down a few blocks-there's a map in earlier posts

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:42 AM
This is pretty interesting...includes major spills:
http://www.ehrs.upenn.edu/protocols/rDNAspill.html

Could the perp have autoclaved something and then thrown it away as biohazard? Could that be why LE sifted through trash and then went through the dump?

shoebox
09-16-2009, 11:43 AM
Annie was so tiny.........I don't understand the 'took her apart'
BUT behind my washer/dryer is a chase with the wires and plumbing......
the service panel is only about 12x12 inches. Did RC have to get her through a panel like that? meaning some of her would go through and others couldn't fit??? I'm sick with thinking of this..........

I think the space in the chase was something like 2' x 2'. Annie was less than 5 ft. Bend her in half and she is just over 2 ft. The news reports always state that she was "stuffed" behind the wall. Imagine the POI shoving her into that space so he could cover the opening. She would be squashed and maybe her arm got dismembered in the process. Sorry so graphic.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 11:43 AM
I can't keep up with all the younger and more "agile" brains on here so I'm going to risk looking as "fluff- headed" as I am and ask:

Has it been established that she DID go to the lab to "work"? I thought I had read somewhere that she got a call asking her to bring "something" to the Amistad building and that was what she was doing but she did not go there to actually work right then: she left her purse, keys, phone at Sterling.Can anyone set me straight on this? And if she did get a call to go to Amistad does anyone know from whom she received the call / request? TIA if you can help me out. You "guys" are amazing!!!:smile:

reports seem to be still conflicting on this-one that she was booked in that morning, another that he asked her over-or can you book in last minute?

Skigirl
09-16-2009, 11:43 AM
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="DarkRed"]I have a question that one of our scientists may know the answer to. I'm not sure how I feel about this dismemberment thing, yet. However, if Annie scratched the perp, could they have cut off her fingers and put them into an autoclave to sterilize the dna underneath of her nails? If only fingers were cut off, would that be considered dismemberment? I seriously have no idea the technicalities with the term dismemberment. I know it's a stretch...just thinkin'.


Jerseygirl,

I think people were talking about the autoclave because they were speculating about how the fire alarm got triggered. One person on one site said, "I know that in my lab, I can accidentally set off the fire alarm by opening the autoclave too fast."

I doubt anyone tried to do anything to Annie's body with an autoclave. It wouldn't be out of the question for someone to have intentionally or unintentionally triggered the fire alarm using the autoclave, though.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:44 AM
His tweets are now "protected"..you can't look at them.

clean and delete your whole temp cache & history, or reboot...then search the name & pull up the cache instead of the official "now-time" link...you should be able to see it and do a screen capture shot. Once you go off from that link, though, it will show up as protected, so you'd need to take care of all pages before going off the cached link.

kaybee
09-16-2009, 11:46 AM
Just a thought or two about the supposed scratches on RC's chest...

That to me would point toward a sexual assault. If he had just choked her, wouldn't the scratches be on his hands?? If his hands were around her neck, she would be grabbing at his hands, not scratching at his chest?

Hi coolmom,
I think I read that he did have scratches on his hands and arms, but also had some on his chest. I don't think the scratches on the chest necessarily indicate a sexual assault. I feel morbid for even imagining this, but she probably was flailing her hands/arms trying to defend herself during the attack, and was trying to connect anywhere on his body to try to stop him. Plus, we don't know the details yet--if she was indeed strangled, we don't know if he was facing her, or approached her from behind, etc which may change where Annie was able to scratch him.


My general thoughts so far. . . I think this was about his male ego and control the one tiny little space that he was able to exert some influence in. I worked in the pharmaceutical research field for a dozen years. It's not true of every company I worked for, but in general, there was what I called academic snobbery--the techs versus the people with Bachelor's degrees versus the people with PhD's versus the few with MD/PhD's. I had a Bachelor's degree and was dismayed to find out that at some companies, it didn't matter what you "could" do--it all boiled down to the academic level that you achieved. And quite often, in all honesty, a person with 5 years experience and a BS degree was more capable in the lab than someone just entering the field with a PhD, just as I am sure there were jobs that the technicians could have done that were being doled out to those of us with bachelor's degrees. Didn't matter though--if you didn't have a PhD, you could spend your entire career working your buns off and never seeing the level that someone who waltzes in fresh from their Post-Docs. I've never worked in an academic science lab, but my coworkers told me it was even worse--way more narrowly defined roles pretty much exclusively dependent on what your level of education was.

I'm sure as a "tech" that this guy felt like he was at the bottom of the bunch and so he overcompensated by being a complete control freak. And Annie was a woman his age, was completely beautiful and charming and had achieved so much more than he ever would dream of achieving. And he obviously sounds like he has had some issues with women (and I think when men have "issues" with women, it's the beautiful and talented ones that garner the most resentment--probably because on one hand, he was attracted to her, yet on the other hand her success made him feel resentful). And although Annie's initial response to his griping was conciliatory and cooperative, maybe Annie had gotten sick and tired of him nit-picking her for every little thing that she did "wrong" in regards to the animals--plus I'm sure she was probably stressed out about her upcoming wedding (she probably had a billion things to do and was just at a higher anxiety level). Maybe she said something that wasn't really that horrible, but in his eyes, was a great insult. And he struck out at her--a representation in his eyes of all his resentment and frustrations--and took her life away from her in a horribly brutal way.

Bottom line. . . I don't care what his excuses are, he deserves to be put away in jail for the rest of his life. I'm just trying to figure out why he would do this. In the end, he needs to go away. Just because you feel like a bottom of the barrel, insecure loser doesn't ever give you the justification for hurting another human being!!!!

Columbo
09-16-2009, 11:47 AM
I think the official statement is she was carrying papers. I've looked at that pic so many ways it gets more distorted everytime. I can't even guess as to what she's carrying.

The unconfirmed rumor is that yes, she was called to the lab unexpectedly.

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I have any of this wrong.

bolded by me.

Sorry if this has already been posted--I may not be as up to date as others since there were about 17 more pages posted when I woke up this a.m. ! Still trying to catch up.

Anyway: I thought she had reserved a lab space in Amistad for 10 a.m., and they normally left purses and other belongings in Sterling Hall while they worked in the labs at Amistad? Correct me if I am wrong!

It kind of makes sense that someone might have called her to come to Amistad---like the killer, for example, so he could carry out his horrible plan. However, I thought she had reserved a spot--something the lab technician would know about by checking a list or the computer or something.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:48 AM
Jerseygirl,

I think people were talking about the autoclave because they were speculating about how the fire alarm got triggered. One person on one site said, "I know that in my lab, I can accidentally set off the fire alarm by opening the autoclave too fast."

I doubt anyone tried to do anything to Annie's body with an autoclave. It wouldn't be out of the question for someone to have intentionally or unintentionally triggered the fire alarm using the autoclave, though.

? I'm confused by this...I never suggested they put Annie in an autoclave... My original question was I wonder if the perp cut off her fingers (the ones she could have scratched the perp with) and tried to autoclave them but it was a very speculative brainstorm and highly unlikely. Then I was thinking maybe the autoclave could have been used for the choice of weapon (s) and material used for cleanup, then possibly thrown away in the dumpster...maybe even in a biohazard bag? I have absolutely no idea...only brainstorming.

Sola.N
09-16-2009, 11:49 AM
I had no idea the hierarchy was so rigid in those environments, but it does make sense.

CharlotteH
09-16-2009, 11:50 AM
clean and delete your whole temp cache & history, or reboot...then search the name & pull up the cache instead of the official "now-time" link...you should be able to see it and do a screen capture shot. Once you go off from that link, though, it will show up as protected, so you'd need to take care of all pages before going off the cached link.

There is no need to clear your cache before viewing Google's cached version. Clearing your cache means that when you go to a page, it will load everything from the site, since nothing is stored on your computer. Just FYI. :)

shoebox
09-16-2009, 11:50 AM
Kaybee, I agree with everything you said about academic snobbery. I have seen it in the companies I have worked for. A lot of PhD's are on their high horse and treat those with lower academic credentials like little peons. To be fair, some of them are quite nice and treat everyone with respect, even the cleaners.

Waddles
09-16-2009, 11:50 AM
bolded by me.

Sorry if this has already been posted--I may not be as up to date as others since there were about 17 more pages posted when I woke up this a.m. ! Still trying to catch up.

Anyway: I thought she had reserved a lab space in Amistad for 10 a.m., and they normally left purses and other belongings in Sterling Hall while they worked in the labs at Amistad? Correct me if I am wrong!

It kind of makes sense that someone might have called her to come to Amistad---like the killer, for example, so he could carry out his horrible plan. However, I thought she had reserved a spot--something the lab technician would know about by checking a list or the computer or something.

This hasn't been clarified yet-both things have been said
I was wondering -can you reserve a lab space last minute-like could she have called to book after he called her

Skigirl
09-16-2009, 11:51 AM
Ironic that you ask this b/c I was astonished when I heard Baden (and Lee on another station) say it could take 24-72 hours...KNOWING FULL WELL THAT YALE'S AMISTAD BUILDING DOES THIS VERY SAME DNA TESTING AND IS A BETTER LAB IMO THAN THE FBI'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

I don't know about forensic DNA testing being done at Yale, since forensics requires stuff like chain-of-custody, but DNA testing is no longer considered very difficult. Lots of labs do it. There are commercially available kits that make it pretty much foolproof. It would really boil down to where the state has a contract/could do it most inexpensively and quickly. There isn't a reason why turnaround time would be faster or slower at the state lab, and something sent to the state lab could still be sent on to another big reference lab.

No matter what, you can expect accurate results - better, really, for the big commercial labs which are highly standardized.

sniperacer
09-16-2009, 11:52 AM
Who said "no romance"? And I know this is going to sound stupid -- but not all sexual contact is romance.

LOL. Does not sound stupid at all, if you're a guy. The real ugly truth..

CharlotteH
09-16-2009, 11:53 AM
bolded by me.
It kind of makes sense that someone might have called her to come to Amistad---like the killer, for example, so he could carry out his horrible plan. However, I thought she had reserved a spot--something the lab technician would know about by checking a list or the computer or something.

Didn't an article this morning say he got to Amistad after she did? So if he did call her to go there, it would have been from elsewhere, which sounds planned. Versus him seeing something in the lab that frustrated him and prompted him to call her over, that is.

Texas Mist
09-16-2009, 11:54 AM
Hi coolmom,
I think I read that he did have scratches on his hands and arms, but also had some on his chest. I don't think the scratches on the chest necessarily indicate a sexual assault. I feel morbid for even imagining this, but she probably was flailing her hands/arms trying to defend herself during the attack, and was trying to connect anywhere on his body to try to stop him. Plus, we don't know the details yet--if she was indeed strangled, we don't know if he was facing her, or approached her from behind, etc which may change where Annie was able to scratch him.


My general thoughts so far. . . I think this was about his male ego and control the one tiny little space that he was able to exert some influence in. I worked in the pharmaceutical research field for a dozen years. It's not true of every company I worked for, but in general, there was what I called academic snobbery--the techs versus the people with Bachelor's degrees versus the people with PhD's versus the few with MD/PhD's. I had a Bachelor's degree and was dismayed to find out that at some companies, it didn't matter what you "could" do--it all boiled down to the academic level that you achieved. And quite often, in all honesty, a person with 5 years experience and a BS degree was more capable in the lab than someone just entering the field with a PhD, just as I am sure there were jobs that the technicians could have done that were being doled out to those of us with bachelor's degrees. Didn't matter though--if you didn't have a PhD, you could spend your entire career working your buns off and never seeing the level that someone who waltzes in fresh from their Post-Docs. I've never worked in an academic science lab, but my coworkers told me it was even worse--way more narrowly defined roles pretty much exclusively dependent on what your level of education was.

I'm sure as a "tech" that this guy felt like he was at the bottom of the bunch and so he overcompensated by being a complete control freak. And Annie was a woman his age, was completely beautiful and charming and had achieved so much more than he ever would dream of achieving. And he obviously sounds like he has had some issues with women (and I think when men have "issues" with women, it's the beautiful and talented ones that garner the most resentment--probably because on one hand, he was attracted to her, yet on the other hand her success made him feel resentful). And although Annie's initial response to his griping was conciliatory and cooperative, maybe Annie had gotten sick and tired of him nit-picking her for every little thing that she did "wrong" in regards to the animals--plus I'm sure she was probably stressed out about her upcoming wedding (she probably had a billion things to do and was just at a higher anxiety level). Maybe she said something that wasn't really that horrible, but in his eyes, was a great insult. And he struck out at her--a representation in his eyes of all his resentment and frustrations--and took her life away from her in a horribly brutal way.

Bottom line. . . I don't care what his excuses are, he deserves to be put away in jail for the rest of his life. I'm just trying to figure out why he would do this. In the end, he needs to go away. Just because you feel like a bottom of the barrel, insecure loser doesn't ever give you the justification for hurting another human being!!!!


kaybee, your post reminds of Raven Aberoa's blog that was recently posted in Janet's forum here...he was going on & on about his "weaknesses" & lack of education, and how he had to be "aggressive" & fanatically in control of the minute details of daily life to achieve his goals.

Gives me the willies just thinking about creeps like this.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:54 AM
There is no need to clear your cache before viewing Google's cached version. Clearing your cache means that when you go to a page, it will load everything from the site, since nothing is stored on your computer. Just FYI. :)

No, I do this all the time. It doesn't matter. I use IE and have to clean my temp cache (meaning my history and temp int files) in order to see the cache on Google Bing or any other search engine. May depend on your internet supplier? Have no idea...but I definitely have to clean & delete if I'm trying to "re"attempt viewing a "protected" person's a/c in a cached link. Hope that explains it better.

Columbo
09-16-2009, 11:54 AM
I think it's undeniable that something did ultimately drive him crazy..

I have a feeling it was a short trip, if you know what I mean...

Texas Mist
09-16-2009, 11:56 AM
"Mr. Avery also said that there had been no complaints made by Ms. Le against Mr. Clark before her death, at least to the knowledge of his department. In fact, he said, the slain woman had made no complaints of any type of harassment against anyone. It remained unclear on Wednesday morning whether there was any connection between Ms. Le and Mr. Clark beyond the fact that they worked in the same facility."


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/nyregion/17yale.html?_r=1&hp

Columbo
09-16-2009, 11:57 AM
". . . In the e-mails, Clark is said to criticize Le for not adhering to the protocols for tending the mice kept in the basement as part of her lab's ongoing experiments.
Le is said to have responded in a conciliatory tone, promising to keep to the protocols. Investigators wonder if Clark was not satisfied, if resentment suddenly flared to rage, if as crazy as it may seem this was a case of mice and murder. . .

. . . the swipe card records from the day Le disappeared show Clark moving from room to room with no apparent logic, at points going to places unrelated to his job . . .

Clark left the building at the time of a fire alarm. Surveillance camera footage is said to show him looking considerably more distraught than could be explained by a simple evacuation. "
BBM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/09/16/2009-09-16_could_brutal_tale_be_about_mice.html#ixzz0RG53v eT5






I'd like to know exactly what his complaint was--what did she do that was not according to the protocols?

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 11:58 AM
I don't know about forensic DNA testing being done at Yale, since forensics requires stuff like chain-of-custody, but DNA testing is no longer considered very difficult. Lots of labs do it. There are commercially available kits that make it pretty much foolproof. It would really boil down to where the state has a contract/could do it most inexpensively and quickly. There isn't a reason why turnaround time would be faster or slower at the state lab, and something sent to the state lab could still be sent on to another big reference lab.

No matter what, you can expect accurate results - better, really, for the big commercial labs which are highly standardized.

Right...I know this, I was just saying I thought it was "ironic" considering the dna handled by scientists at Yale in the Amistad building. They could have the results in no time if it were legal to do so. :)

CharlotteH
09-16-2009, 11:59 AM
No, I do this all the time. It doesn't matter. I use IE and have to clean my temp cache (meaning my history and temp int files) in order to see the cache on Google Bing or any other search engine. May depend on your internet supplier? Have no idea...but I definitely have to clean & delete if I'm trying to "re"attempt viewing a "protected" person's a/c in a cached link. Hope that explains it better.

Guess I misread you then, sorry. I meant there would be no reason to clear your cache if you were visiting Google's cached version for the first time, because it is stored on their computers, not yours. If you already went to Google's cached version, then that would be in your cache, so it would help to clear it. I think we are on the same page now. ;)

kaybee
09-16-2009, 12:02 PM
Kaybee, I agree with everything you said about academic snobbery. I have seen it in the companies I have worked for. A lot of PhD's are on their high horse and treat those with lower academic credentials like little peons. To be fair, some of them are quite nice and treat everyone with respect, even the cleaners.


Hi shoebox,
I agree--I did work for one company in particular where it didn't really matter. My friends were a mixture of people with PhD's, bachelors degrees and technicians--it was a really great work environment--I loved it there because people were valued equally. At my other three jobs? Forget it!!! The PhD's and non-PhD's were not "friends", did not eat lunch together, etc. And some of the PhD's were worse than others, but the general theme was that anyone who did not have a PhD was on some lower level, including those with Masters Degrees.

thanks for the nice reply!
: )

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 12:03 PM
With all this talk of cleaning caches and all...is OK to post here the tweets from cousin?

majikposhun
09-16-2009, 12:04 PM
I found his girlfriend pic...

http://news.limauais.com/picture-jennifer-hromadka-is-raymond-clark-ray-clark-girlfriend/

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 12:07 PM
Guess I misread you then, sorry. I meant there would be no reason to clear your cache if you were visiting Google's cached version for the first time, because it is stored on their computers, not yours. If you already went to Google's cached version, then that would be in your cache, so it would help to clear it. I think we are on the same page now. ;)

O/T, totally not related...I really wish I had an Apple & used Firefox! I despise IE...which is what I'm forced to use at the moment...

passionflower
09-16-2009, 12:07 PM
as far as no romance between Annie and Ray..........some guys fall in lust with girls just over a "hello".........look at movie stars that creeps say send them 'signals'.........plain and simple, just because he had a live in gal and engaged doesn't mean he wasn't LOOKING for someone else.......IMO
Annie was everything, brilliant,sweet, funny, beutiful and sexy........and this creep knew it! JMOO

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 12:09 PM
With all this talk of cleaning caches and all...is OK to post here the tweets from cousin?

I think just a link...be careful or we could lose this thread...I tried to warn people on the other thread & now it's poof! ... Pretty Please ...

jadejazzkayla
09-16-2009, 12:09 PM
news at noon says RC lawyer is David Dworski. Reporter also said a police press conference is scheduled for 3PM eastern today.

passionflower
09-16-2009, 12:09 PM
I found his girlfriend pic...

http://news.limauais.com/picture-jennifer-hromadka-is-raymond-clark-ray-clark-girlfriend/

she's beautiful also, would love to hear her story.........
could she of been jealous???

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Read from the bottom up...
http://twitter.com/home#search?q=vinrich

passionflower
09-16-2009, 12:12 PM
darn I don't belong to twitter and therefore cannot get in to view

Avery
09-16-2009, 12:14 PM
Read from the bottom up...
http://twitter.com/home#search?q=vinrich


this is taking me to log-in for twitter. after I logged in, it just took me to my homepage.

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 12:17 PM
this is taking me to log-in for twitter. after I logged in, it just took me to my homepage.

Go to Twitter. Search VINRICH. It will show his tweets and retweets even thought his page is on private.

majikposhun
09-16-2009, 12:18 PM
she's beautiful also, would love to hear her story.........
could she of been jealous???

I believe there is more to the story than meets the eye, as per usual.

eyes4crime
09-16-2009, 12:18 PM
Suspect had run-in with cops in high school over break up with girlfriend:

"The detective wrote that subsequently the girlfriend came with her mother to the station to speak to him.

She “wished to tell me of an incident that took place, however, did not want it
pursued by this Department,” the detective wrote. “She stated that she had been having a sexual relationship with [the male] and that at one time [the male] did force her to have sex with him. The relationship did continue after that incident, however she is unsure of what he may do as a result of the break up."

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/alleged_annie_l.php

[bolded by me]

Thank you for this Chili Fries - I'm a believer documented acts such as this can tell us a a great deal about a person - especially if a pattern (history) begins to emerge with the same theme...in this case, if the girl would have pursued the incident it would have been 'rape' -- power and control, forceful violence etc. Unfortunately she did not pursue the claim. I started a 'history' profile for Clark. Thanks for this important info.

Columbo
09-16-2009, 12:20 PM
I think two people are going to wind up in jail before it's overwith. In spite of all of the speculation, rumor and changing reports.....I still get the sense that one person started it, and the other came in behind that person and finished it. Just based on what I've read from the GF, I'd guess she could be quite the protective one over HER man, whether it was issues relating to relationships OR job related matters. She says he won't speak up for himself, remember?

Sorry to say this, but to me, looking at her eyes, the girlfriend looks not too tightly wrapped either. I think she very well could have helped him or is covering for him somehow.

Harmony2
09-16-2009, 12:21 PM
bolded by me.

Sorry if this has already been posted--I may not be as up to date as others since there were about 17 more pages posted when I woke up this a.m. ! Still trying to catch up.

Anyway: I thought she had reserved a lab space in Amistad for 10 a.m., and they normally left purses and other belongings in Sterling Hall while they worked in the labs at Amistad? Correct me if I am wrong!

It kind of makes sense that someone might have called her to come to Amistad---like the killer, for example, so he could carry out his horrible plan. However, I thought she had reserved a spot--something the lab technician would know about by checking a list or the computer or something.

This is the thread where it was discussed, continued on the following pages.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88887&page=11

TonyGatto
09-16-2009, 12:21 PM
Thank you for this Chili Fries - I'm a believer documented acts such as this can tell us a a great deal about a person - especially if a pattern (history) begins to emerge with the same theme...in this case, if the girl would have pursued the incident it would have been 'rape' -- power and control, forceful violence etc. Unfortunately she did not pursue the claim. I started a 'history' profile for Clark. Thanks for this important info.

Once a man does something like this you know he is capable of doing it again and again. And this is totally credible in that it comes from a detective who gives his name. You're right: HE RAPED SOMEONE IN THE PAST, according to this information. Throws the animal rights issue right out the window as far as I'm concerned.

Columbo
09-16-2009, 12:24 PM
"Mr. Avery also said that there had been no complaints made by Ms. Le against Mr. Clark before her death, at least to the knowledge of his department. In fact, he said, the slain woman had made no complaints of any type of harassment against anyone. It remained unclear on Wednesday morning whether there was any connection between Ms. Le and Mr. Clark beyond the fact that they worked in the same facility."


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/nyregion/17yale.html?_r=1&hp

Then what is the "shocking connection" between Annie and RC they said was going to be revealed last night? :waitasec:

SuziQ
09-16-2009, 12:24 PM
I found his girlfriend pic...

http://news.limauais.com/picture-jennifer-hromadka-is-raymond-clark-ray-clark-girlfriend/

I'm wondering if that isn't a different GF. She doesn't look like any of the other pics of JH I've seen. And RC looks alot slimmer and younger than recent pics of him.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 12:25 PM
Has it been determined what Annie is holding? Initially, I thought she was transporting a cumbersome research book. It's not a cat is it? I noticed there is a high school (I think) pic, in this same photo gallery, of her dissecting a cat, and her research involves animals; though I wouldn't expect her to be freely carrying a lab animal outdoors.

This pic registered on the hinky meter for me as well. Since she left all her belongings behind, it seems she wasn't planning to be away for long. Had she been telephoned from the lab and asked to bring over this particular item as a ploy? Did the girl at the door hand it to her and she is jostling to balance it? Is the girl at the door wearing animal handling gloves?

I posted this in the other thread but the thread is deleted now...looks like a thick book (possibly biology of some type) and maybe papers/file/notebook under it. Either way, you can see that the main thick white part is something that is held together by a binding of some sort. I'm going with a text book, a thick one, and reports or file underneath.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/spedtial/anniefromsurveillancevid.jpg

kikid
09-16-2009, 12:25 PM
Once a man does something like this you know he is capable of doing it again and again. And this is totally credible in that it comes from a detective who gives his name. You're right: HE RAPED SOMEONE IN THE PAST, according to this information. Throws the animal rights issue right out the window as far as I'm concerned.

He was accused of rape in the past, an allegation is not a fact. Although, it certainly has weight in our discussion here, it doesn't in the courtroom.

Shutterfly
09-16-2009, 12:26 PM
Could we please stop posting JH's full name?

eyes4crime
09-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Once a man does something like this you know he is capable of doing it again and again. And this is totally credible in that it comes from a detective who gives his name. You're right: HE RAPED SOMEONE IN THE PAST, according to this information. Throws the animal rights issue right out the window as far as I'm concerned.

You're right on puffster! The animal rights issue seems to be a way to minimize and deflect from the brutal and senseless murder of Annie. A man who rapes in high school would make an issue about mice only if it gives him the arena for power and control over, what he would call, a mice abuser.

Jersey*Girl
09-16-2009, 12:29 PM
I'm wondering if that isn't a different GF. She doesn't look like any of the other pics of JH I've seen. And RC looks alot slimmer and younger than recent pics of him.

It's her, Suzi. This is JH with makeup & hair done.