The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992

[miles_draken]

Police corruption is always the popular viewpoint when a case is long unsolved it seems.

[Missouri Mule]

Police corruption is always the popular viewpoint when a case is long unsolved it seems.
I'm not talking about police corruption here. I'm talking about police incompetence. I think those days are over. And on this score I KNOW what I am talking about.

[miles_draken]

The Sgt. in the segment last night said they had allowed other agencies, not sure which ones, I assume the FBI, to look at their case files and make suggestions which they followed. This is according to the Sgt. I just don't know how any community would allow police incompetence to last this long in any city large or small.

[Missouri Mule]

The Sgt. in the segment last night said they had allowed other agencies, not sure which ones, I assume the FBI, to look at their case files and make suggestions which they followed. This is according to the Sgt. I just don't know how any community would allow police incompetence to last this long in any city large or small.The FBI was involved with this case from the beginning which was one of the things that threw this case off the rails. The police chief had an FBI background and there was jealousy that the FBI would get all the glory. That's one of the sub-plots to this investigation. This was even covered in the "48 hour" piece.

[Ken]

Watch the entire interview with Sgt. Mike Owen where he debunks the method and equipment this man is using. Looks like a laptop on a golf club dolly to me. A university expert said this equipment wasn't large enough to be what the individual says it is.
Here is Rick Norland's Bio Sheet. This is what Sgt. Mike Owen didn't tell you.

BIOGRAPHY
RICK NORLAND
Owner, Construction Solutions LLC., Rick Norland is a Licensed Professional Mechanical Engineer who possesses a great deal of experience and expertise in the concrete sawing and drilling industry and ground penetrating radar industry.
Rick has distinguished himself many times, receiving awards for his inventions and his service. He has published numerous articles and manuals of a technical and scientific nature in addition to receiving patents for his inventions of equipment relating to the industry.
Rick is often called upon to assist in projects worldwide, ranging from modifications to the Panama Canal, the raising of the "Kirsk" submarine, locating burial sites, locating and mapping of buried utilities and structures, to nuclear power plant decommissioning. He is also actively involved in the design, modification, and testing of new and existing equipment, both here and abroad.
Rick is a member of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers; American Concrete Paving Association; ASTM International; American Nuclear Society; Committee on Portland Cement Concrete Pavement Construction; the National Transportation Research Board; and the Concrete Sawing and Drilling Association.

To Learn more about Rick Norland and his company please visit:

http://www.construction-solutions.net

[Missouri Mule]

Here is Rick Norland's Bio Sheet. This is what Sgt. Mike Owen didn't tell you.

BIOGRAPHY
RICK NORLAND

Owner, Construction Solutions LLC., Rick Norland is a Licensed Professional Mechanical Engineer who possesses a great deal of experience and expertise in the concrete sawing and drilling industry and ground penetrating radar industry.

Rick has distinguished himself many times, receiving awards for his inventions and his service. He has published numerous articles and manuals of a technical and scientific nature in addition to receiving patents for his inventions of equipment relating to the industry.

Rick is often called upon to assist in projects worldwide, ranging from modifications to the Panama Canal, the raising of the "Kirsk" submarine, locating burial sites, locating and mapping of buried utilities and structures, to nuclear power plant decommissioning. He is also actively involved in the design, modification, and testing of new and existing equipment, both here and abroad.

Rick is a member of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers; American Concrete Paving Association; ASTM International; American Nuclear Society; Committee on Portland Cement Concrete Pavement Construction; the National Transportation Research Board; and the Concrete Sawing and Drilling Association.
Ken, I'm going to surprise you. I've actually come over to your side on this matter. That hole should be dug and done promptly. It is imperative that this be ruled out if they are not there because it is a needless impediment to the investigation if they are not there. Personally, I found Mr. Norland to be highly credible and I speak as someone who worked investigations for 30 years (although not in law enforcement.) I can usually; almost always, tell a con man from the genuine article and frankly I found him to carefully parse his words and he came across as someone I would give serious consideration. As to Owens he didn't name his "experts" and we don't know diddly squat about them. "Experts" are a dime a dozen in civil and criminal proceedings. Each one of us could, in some way, be qualified as an "expert" witness. In fact, many such people make a very good living traveling about the country giving "expert" testimony in open court. Most people are accepting of their testimony because they don't understand the legal system. The truth of the matter is that justice is not the goal of our legal system; it is only who wins the trial. That's the brutal truth, but it is the truth.

Until last night I never heard of Owens. He seemed like a nice man and I'm sure he is an honest cop. But when he referred to his "experts" the first thing that I thought of, well, how "expert" are they, really. Let us test their expertise and see who knows up from down. From where I sit, I'd put my money on Norland, based on what I saw. In this respect you were right all along and I was wrong to dismiss him. I had thought you were referring to this other guy you mentioned in our e-mails. Norland is a different fish altogether. He seemed to have his act together. It may turn out that the remains are not there, but I'm not willing to bet the farm that they are not.

The important thing is that we eliminate the possibilities to arrive at the known facts. We already know a whole lot of things from many sources. As discussed on our other site, we now have sightings of no less than four different colored vans, "moss green", "dark brown", "dark blue", and finally "dirty white." God only knows what color that van really was. In fact, there may have been more than one van. It may have been deliberately so. What I find so interesting is that the $800 left behind points to the probability that the perps were rushed to get the women into the van. The K.C. Star specifically stated that a similar van was in the vicinity as late as 4:30 AM on that Sunday morning and we know that sunrise was but a short time later at 5:53 AM. And with twilight it would have been sooner still. Astronomical twilight began at 4:01 AM and civil twilight began at 5:22 AM which meant that the perps had only 52 minutes to get inside the house, do what they had to do, move the cars, hustle the women into the van and get out "Dodge" before they would have been clearly seen by anyone passing by the Levitt home. That explains the money left behind and it is certaily possible that the globe was deliberately broken to alert Sherrill or Suzie to come to the front door to investigate the noise and gain entry. The truth is that we know a lot. The question is what will the Springfield Police Department do with the known facts.

[miles_draken]

Lets not forget that the police always hold back information on these cases that only they and the perpetrators would know about. They aren't putting all their knowledge on the news or in the papers. I trust that they have done a satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory. What possible gain could there be for them NOT to solve this case? Get another 'expert' with this ground penetrating radar out there and if you can get two different people to come up with the same belief then perhaps it's worth digging up. Doesn't seem to be anyone wanting to dip their professional reputation in that pool though.

[Missouri Mule]

Lets not forget that the police always hold back information on these cases that only they and the perpetrators would know about. They aren't putting all their knowledge on the news or in the papers. I trust that they have done a satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory. What possible gain could there be for them NOT to solve this case? Get another 'expert' with this ground penetrating radar out there and if you can get two different people to come up with the same belief then perhaps it's worth digging up. Doesn't seem to be anyone wanting to dip their professional reputation in that pool though.
I know that. I also know things that are not in the public domain. I'll address that later.

[Ken]

I trust that they have done a satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory. What possible gain could there be for them NOT to solve this case? That's a good question...The Hospital doesn't have a problem with the dig. The board members had seen the video well before it aired and they unanimously agreed to allow the dig on their property anytime the authorities want to do it. Obviously, all of the hospital board members had seen something in that video that Sgt. Mike Owen doesn't see.

I watched the entire extended interview with Sgt. Mike Owen at KY3.com. He talked about how the timeline doesn't work for the parking garage lead. If Sgt. Mike Owen is right, this means there are three graves belonging to three other people, underneath the concrete, that will not be followed up on by the SPD. Those three graves don't have to be the three missing women.

My understanding is that the Prosecuting Attorney's Office has the power to remove the SPD from the investigation and replace them with an outside law enforcement agency such as the Missouri Highway Patrol at any time.

[Ken]

To Learn more about Rick Norland and his company please visit:

http://www.construction-solutions.net/

[georgiagirl]

this may have already been posted but I found this page on myspace and thought is odd that it is set to private if it is a memorial page....


http://www.myspace.com/suzannestreeter

[Missouri Mule]

this may have already been posted but I found this page on myspace and thought is odd that it is set to private if it is a memorial page....


http://www.myspace.com/suzannestreeter
It is almost certainly a cruel hoax but perhaps someone should report it to the Springfield Police Department. Their phone # is 417-864-1810. At the very least these jerks, whoever did this, ought to be locked up for a month or two in one of those holding tanks with the other creeps and weirdos to teach them this is not fun and games. This photo was obviously Suzie when she was about 18 or 19 years old. This is what hinders investigations and drives the police crazy. I'm not going to report it because I've already got issues to deal with. I'm not getting into fraudsters. But thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Missouri Mule]

this may have already been posted but I found this page on myspace and thought is odd that it is set to private if it is a memorial page....


http://www.myspace.com/suzannestreeter
I just found out who posted that and you don't want to know. I'd forget it.

[georgiagirl]

I just found out who posted that and you don't want to know. I'd forget it.
Ok, thanks.

[Ken]

A university expert said this equipment wasn't large enough to be what the individual says it is. Here is something else that Sgt. Mike Owen didn't tell you. The university professors that he is referring to are Professor Kevin Mickus and Professor Kevin Evans of the Geology department at Missouri State University.

If the police did a thorough investigation like they have claimed; they should have brought in the university experts to conduct an independent scan. Do you know why the university professors haven't used their own GPR equipment to scan the parking garage to confirm or deny Rick Norland's findings?

The answer will surprise you. They can't. They don't have the proper GPR equipment to do the job.

Sgt. Mike Owen quoted university experts who don't even have the proper equipment to do the job themselves. How can the SPD conduct a thorough investigation with GPR equipment that they can't even use?

[Missouri Mule]

Here is something else that Sgt. Mike Owen didn't tell you. The university professors that he is referring to are Professor Kevin Mickus and Professor Kevin Evans of the Geology department at Missouri State University.

If the police did a thorough investigation like they have claimed; they should have brought in the university experts to conduct an independent scan. Do you know why the university professors haven't used their own GPR equipment to scan the parking garage to confirm or deny Rick Norland's findings?

The answer will surprise you. They can't. They don't have the proper GPR equipment to do the job.

Sgt. Mike Owen quoted university experts who don't even have the proper equipment to do the job themselves. How can the SPD conduct a thorough investigation with GPR equipment that they can't even use?
Doesn't surprise me. If one of the primary family members adamently refuses to hear bad news the police will likely accomodate that person. I suspect that is the overriding reason they don't want to do the dig. But I wouldn't rule out animal bones being there; possibly put there deliberately. I underestimated you Ken. You've done some good basic investigative work and found out what the police should have done themselves. Good work! You get a gold star.

[miles_draken]

What difference does it make if they don't have the equipment, they obviously have knowledge of the proper equipment it would take and said this man doesn't have it who did the scan. And the Hospital Board agreed to the dig? What qualifies them to see three bodies in that black and white enigma he is showing of his scan. I'm not saying it isn't bodies, but the police seem convinced it's not a viable lead. How much can it cost to bust up that concrete and find out? IF the hospital is willing why not let some private funding do it. Then if these things are really bodies you can call the police. Grease a street worker with a jackhammer two hundred bucks and i'll bet he'd bust up the concrete for you.

[Trooogrit]

Well the time line is different I guess. The pouring of that area was a year later from what I listened to on the video of the detective. He also went on to say it was more or less driven by psychic knowledge and that took the credibility from it. I guess I can see that reasoning. I believe there are posts that have put forth that rumor though that are unrelated to psychics. However it would not cost much to do it. Hell its out there now. The channel that broadcast the other night would probably pay for the concrete work needed just for the exclusive story behind it.

[Missouri Mule]

What difference does it make if they don't have the equipment, they obviously have knowledge of the proper equipment it would take and said this man doesn't have it who did the scan. And the Hospital Board agreed to the dig? What qualifies them to see three bodies in that black and white enigma he is showing of his scan. I'm not saying it isn't bodies, but the police seem convinced it's not a viable lead. How much can it cost to bust up that concrete and find out? IF the hospital is willing why not let some private funding do it. Then if these things are really bodies you can call the police. Grease a street worker with a jackhammer two hundred bucks and i'll bet he'd bust up the concrete for you.I invited you over to the other site several days ago and thus far I have seen nothing from you. That of course is your choice. The concensus of several, of which I happen to agree, is that the police are unwilling to do this because of what they might see, rather than what they might not see. IF (and this is a big IF), the remains are found, they would have to give the bad news to Janis McCall who appears to be unwilling to accept the idea that Stacy is deceased.

In my view that is the primary reason they will not do the dig. (Personally, I do not believe that the bodies are there.) The problem with this parking lot business is that it detracts from the real investigation which plays into the hands of the perpetrators. So long as people are out on wild goose chases, real, solid leads are not being pursued. Therefore, I would argue that the faster this parking lot business is disposed of, people here and elsewhere, and most especially the police can get back to the "real" investigation.

But what I have some difficulty with is what you said back on 10/19/2004 when you said and I quote:

"I do believe all three are dead and buried locally, however, if the perpetrator was a traveling labor their working on the medical center he wouldn't know the outer edges of Springfield as well. It seems that whoever took them knew the home, so they'd been there before in all likelihood. It is my belief that the remains are not far from their home, possibly underneath the parking lot that was being poured at the time. I don't have a working knowledge of parking lot pouring, maybe some of you will tell me this is unlikely,"

If I read you correctly, you were arguing, suggesting, urging (take your pick) that someone ought to look into the parking lot deal. Several days ago I inquired of the woman who was on the streaming tape from KY-3 and she claims that she didn't get involved in this parking lot matter until sometime in 2006. I'm confused. Please elucidate.

[Ken]

How much can it cost to bust up that concrete and find out? IF the hospital is willing why not let some private funding do it. Then if these things are really bodies you can call the police. Grease a street worker with a jackhammer two hundred bucks and i'll bet he'd bust up the concrete for you.
Miles, You bring up a great point. The Prosecuting Attorneys Office has designated "the spot" as a potential crime scene; so nobody other than a law enforcement agency could tamper with it without getting into trouble. However, since the SPD has stated publically that they will not follow up on this lead; technically "the spot" shouldn't be considered a potential crime scene.

Assuming this is true, the hospital should be able to legally hire someone with a jackhammer to take a peek. It wouldn't cost much and it would put this lead to rest one way or the other. Miles, I am in complete agreement with you on this.

[Missouri Mule]

Miles, You bring up a great point. The Prosecuting Attorneys Office has designated "the spot" as a potential crime scene; so nobody other than a law enforcement agency could tamper with it without getting into trouble. However, since the SPD has stated publically that they will not follow up on this lead; technically "the spot" shouldn't be considered a potential crime scene.

Assuming this is true, the hospital should be able to legally hire someone with a jackhammer to take a peek. It wouldn't cost much and it would put this lead to rest one way or the other. Miles, I am in complete agreement with you on this.
Therefore it appears that most everyone is in agreement that the dig should commence. At last we apparently have a concensus. So why doesn't the police do it then? Are they so afraid to break the bad news to Mrs. McCall they can't bring themselves to do it? That's the only logical reason I can think of. It won't cost much. The question will be out of the way and we can immediately move on to other matters instead of arguing whether or not the equipment is good or bad or whose "experts" have more credibility. Anyone wish to take issue with that?

[miles_draken]

I was not as informed at the time about the time discrepancy on this parking lot area. I've heard about this in rumor for some time that they may be in the area of the home, dead and buried. When all this vision stuff came up, and incase you haven't guessed by now I don't believe it, it tainted my view of these peoples involvement with the case. This same group came up with the ground penetrating radar info and as soon as these two things were lined up I began to think against it. I'm for digging it up, putting it to rest, seeing what causes those anomolous readings. I'm completely against any visions that provide these vague things. The website you are trying to get me to post on is the same website I first read about the psychic vision, so I really have no interest in getting involved with it. I've read the whole thing and just don't agree with that method of investigation.

[Missouri Mule]

I was not as informed at the time about the time discrepancy on this parking lot area. I've heard about this in rumor for some time that they may be in the area of the home, dead and buried. When all this vision stuff came up, and incase you haven't guessed by now I don't believe it, it tainted my view of these peoples involvement with the case. This same group came up with the ground penetrating radar info and as soon as these two things were lined up I began to think against it. I'm for digging it up, putting it to rest, seeing what causes those anomolous readings. I'm completely against any visions that provide these vague things. The website you are trying to get me to post on is the same website I first read about the psychic vision, so I really have no interest in getting involved with it. I've read the whole thing and just don't agree with that method of investigation.Well, I thought it was interesting that you first brought up the parking lot theory and then when it comes to fruition and appears on television, the detective says it is debunked (without any proof), you were so quick to jump into the fray against Ken. In effect you seem to be debunking your own first thoughts. Kenny is an easy target because he claims to have visions and insights the rest of us don't have. And most people don't believe in pschics and visions. Nor do I. I don't believe in visions and psychics nor have I ever been enthusiastic about the parking lot scenario. I'm also not religious but agnostic.

I'm not "trying" to get you to post to that website. I have no financial stake or other interest it. Since you referred to it in a subsequent post. On 10/20/04 you said this and you posted the link:

"Just found an interesting link about the SPringfield three."

http://airalex.homestead.com/MISSING.html

So I thought you must have found it interesting as well since those were your own words. Whether you want to participate is of course your own business. It's a free country but since you appear to have an interest in this case I thought you might want to avail yourself of some new thinking on the subject. That's all. Sorry if I misread your intentions. But there are 804 posts over there including four by the brother of Suzie Streeter. That's why I participate over there as we are, what do they say, "thinking outside the box."

For anyone else that is interested they are actually compiling a petition on this case to take it to the state or federal government level. Currently there are some 78 names on the petition. If the Springfield police won't act on tips, for whatever reason, then concerned citizens have every right to have redress for their grievances. It's actually in our Constitution; our First Amendment.

[Missouri Mule]

OK, I'm done for today. Thought I would pass along the fact that someone important to this case is posting over at the other site. If anyone goes there, please be respectful. I've already been taken down a peg or two in my overexuberance. I had it coming but I couldn't restrain myself. A word to the wise.

[Trooogrit]

There have been a few digs in the past few years. It would be nice to see this one done just for the interest in the case. The police should let some of there information out. Seems like these cases get cold because nothng gets out. They hold back information but sometimes that wont help them get the missing link.

[Missouri Mule]

There have been a few digs in the past few years. It would be nice to see this one done just for the interest in the case. The police should let some of there information out. Seems like these cases get cold because nothng gets out. They hold back information but sometimes that wont help them get the missing link.
Not only that, but even the press can't get information. I have been told by at least two close to the scene that everything goes into a "black hole." It's the darnest case I have ever seen.

I've never been a big fan of this dig but what is there to lose? I have two alternative theories where the bodies are located and either one would be plausible. But after viewing the streaming video out of KY-3 the other night, the gentleman doing the scan seemed highly credible and his credentials impeccable. On the other hand the police spokesman said his "experts" disagreed although he offered up no evidence they were any more qualified than the local dogcatcher. Too much is made of so-called "experts" anyway. They are a dime a dozen and many make their living traveling across the country to testify at trials and make a handsome living.

Just more stalling as far as I can tell. Either they aren't working the case, or they are working the case and keeping it close to the vest; so close in fact that they refuse to talk to the press about this particular case. I contacted the local newspaper and they have approached the SPD about a special series on cold cases in the area. They said they will talk about every other case but not about this one. I have no clue what this means. So far as I know they may be on the cusp of putting handcuffs on the perpetrators or they are just letting the case gather dust. I sent a message off to the FBI today to see if they will give up any information. They were involved from the outset with profilers and all the rest. I don't think they close the case until it is solved, or at least that was my understanding. If anyone knows differently please feel free to correct me.

[Trooogrit]

Well there are cold cases all over that are never solved. Police dont have the time. THe budgets are always strained, not enough police. Missing persons cases are never given enough priority. If they ever get the 24 hour rule changed they will do better with it. This case however is completely different. If this was a random act it may never be solved, but if it were something that was planned there is very good chance something will come out. I wish they would at least follow up publicly with the leads they have tried to run down. Everyone hears rumors, bar talk, jail house talk. If you knew that some of these had been followed up on it would be easier to dismiss them. RIght now anything is possible.

[Missouri Mule]

Well there are cold cases all over that are never solved. Police dont have the time. THe budgets are always strained, not enough police. Missing persons cases are never given enough priority. If they ever get the 24 hour rule changed they will do better with it. This case however is completely different. If this was a random act it may never be solved, but if it were something that was planned there is very good chance something will come out. I wish they would at least follow up publicly with the leads they have tried to run down. Everyone hears rumors, bar talk, jail house talk. If you knew that some of these had been followed up on it would be easier to dismiss them. RIght now anything is possible.
That's probably true and if it is, then I guess this case is heading up to the Missouri Attorney General's office then. We have 102 names on the petition as of this time. If the police don't want to work the case, then I guess we can see if someone else will. This has gone on far too long without resolution. As we say in my neck of the woods, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Or as "Officer Malone" would say, we'll have to whatever is required.

[Missouri Mule]

I'm rereading this thread myself to clarify my own thinking and I ran across this passage about in the middle by Enriqui Sparta that echoes my own thinking. A lot has been made of the broken globe. What hasn't been discussed much is an alternative view to gain entry to the house rather than some "ruse" like a utility repairman. I mean, how many repairmen come to someone's home in the middle of the night and who would be inclined to leave them in at night even if they were repairmen?. I wouldn't even open the door. Here is what was written about in the middle of this thread.

"The broken light/lamp thing on the porch may have been used to gain entry. Perhaps they broke the thing knowing Sherrill would check the noise?"

In my opinion this is the most logical reason why the front door was opened so late at night. A person hearing breaking glass on their front porch would logically think that perhaps someone may have had an accident and even perhaps has run their car into the front of the home. That being the case they would want to find out what is going on. So after long reflection that's what I think is the most likely scenario to gain entry.

And to add credence to this theory is something that I have learned within the past few days. Supposedly Sherrill had a weapon registered to her person that was kept somewhere handy for just such contingencies. In Greene County a person must register a hand gun with the local sheriff. It is a simple procedure while they run a criminal check (which further reinforces the view that she was not into criminal activities) and if nothing shows up the permit which is of a nominal cost of about $10 is issued and then the gun dealer will issue the weapon to the individual. I registered two such weapons myself and it was a rapid and straightforward process. Long weapons like rifles and shotguns are registered at the store of purchase and do not require a sheriff's permit.

So we have Sherrill's concern for her safety by not permitting her daughter to have a key to the side entrance and a handgun for protection. That argues that she would not easily have opened that door in the middle of the night. Additionally, the girls were in the home having taken off their makeup and getting ready or had gone to bed. Therefore, the logical conclusion must be the breaking of the globe was to gain someone's attention to open the door at which time the abductors forced their way into the home. The home was small and such a loud noise would undoubtedly have been heard in the bedrooms or if they were still up discussing the day's activities would certainly have been easily heard.

[TallCoolOne]

Just bumping this up.

[Old_School_PDA]

Thee globe theory is no good. The houses are packed too tight. It would wake up nearby houses just as well.

[Missouri Mule]

Thee globe theory is no good. The houses are packed too tight. It would wake up nearby houses just as well.
My memory is somewhat vague but I'm thinking that particular home is situated on a somewhat secluded lot but next to a mostly business area. It abuts close to Kentwood and the next streets are some very old money and exclusive homes.

It is unlikely they would have heard a globe being broken from that distance. What is most likely is that the van sighting is valid at 4:30 AM because of various early morning joggers and passing traffic coming off the main drag Glenstone (AKA B65). That leaves less than 1 hour to carry out the entire act of gaining entry, abducting the women, moving the vehicles, pulling the van next to the home and getting out of "Dodge." The 4:30 AM sighting was reported in an archived version of the Kansas City Star and I believe it to be a reliable report.

[Old_School_PDA]

Where and when was the van sighting at the grocery store? Was it at the Dillons on E. Sunshine? Where was the sighting at the house? Does the public have this info? This may be old news-did you realize a van was stolen from a car lot about June 4. The van turned up again in Indiana. Has anyone heard if the Indiana state police found anything in thier processing?--Back to the globe- I just don't think anyone would break glass in that area and hope to avoid detection. It was early Summer. Windows would be open. Possibly it could have been hit with the intention of knocking out the light. However I think it was broken accidentally.

[Missouri Mule]

Where and when was the van sighting at the grocery store? Was it at the Dillons on E. Sunshine? Where was the sighting at the house? Does the public have this info? This may be old news-did you realize a van was stolen from a car lot about June 4. The van turned up again in Indiana. Has anyone heard if the Indiana state police found anything in thier processing?--Back to the globe- I just don't think anyone would break glass in that area and hope to avoid detection. It was early Summer. Windows would be open. Possibly it could have been hit with the intention of knocking out the light. However I think it was broken accidentally.
The K.C. Star only says that the van was seen close to the home and out of place. The Dillons on East Sunshine must be three or four miles away.

That particular van was found in another state, and matched to the VIN number. It was also the wrong model year. That was like a 1985 model which is nowhere near the one spotted several times in the area. That van obviously was either not searched for evidence and DNA (unlikely) or it was seen not to have been involved and the lead discarded as bogus.

I don't think anyone in Springfield would be sleeping at that time of year with their windows open. They have high temperatures and high humidity. I used to walk myself in the Southern Hills area and sweated like a hog even very early in the morning.

As to knocking out the light, it wasn't broken. Just the globe. The suggests a quick whack on the globe or possibly one of the women was kicking and knocked it out as they were being carried out of the home on the backs of one of the perps to the van. The only logical reasons for that globe being broken were to wake the women or when the women were being hustled into the van. The perps were working against twilight at 5:22 AM that was rapidly approaching and didn't have time to clean it up. They wanted out of "Dodge" immediately. I'm open to either scenario regarding the globe.

[Trooogrit]

The van that was stolen was a newer model I believe. It didnt turn up for several months. I am pretty sure I read about the van you are talking about.

[Old_School_PDA]

I thought that there was a sighting of the van in the parking lot of a grocery store. The witness went to the trouble of writing down the license number and then lost it. The only 24 hour grocery store in the area of 1717 Delmar is the Dillon's on Sunshine. I thought it might be a convienient place to stop on the way out of town-to 65. I have live in Springfield for almost forty years and I usually don't turn on my AC until mid to late June. The evenings are cool--Although the days are hot and humid.

[Missouri Mule]

I thought that there was a sighting of the van in the parking lot of a grocery store. The witness went to the trouble of writing down the license number and then lost it. The only 24 hour grocery store in the area of 1717 Delmar is the Dillon's on Sunshine. I thought it might be a convienient place to stop on the way out of town-to 65. I have lived in Springfield for almost forty years and I usually don't turn on my AC until mid to late June. The evenings are cool--Although the days are hot and humid.
I'll take your word on the grocery store. That I didn't know but is good information to have. I used to shop there in the early and mid 1980s. But I can't recall sleeping with the windows open unless the attic fan was on and that would likely mask the sound of some glass breaking, which wouldn't be all that unusual that close to Glenstone where some drunk might toss a beer bottle out the window. I should think the road noise would be sufficient for anyone close to that home to have their windows closed.

[Old_School_PDA]

Even if the abduction occured at 3:00 am, that does not leave much daylight to get away under cover of darkness. So, I've always wondered about the route to where ever they went. I wish I knew how legit the van sightings were and where they occured. If I was sneaking away from Delmar I would either take Grand or Cherry out to possibly Sunshine and eventually 65 to the lakes or one of the State forests. You can also take Cherry to Barnes to Chestnut out to 125. There were screams heard in Eastern Greene county the night of the abduction. You can take this path , especially in 1992, without encountering a great deal of traffic.
I remember at the time of the abduction, I thought about the construction taking Seminole out West. Although this area is populated now it was wide open in 92. They were paving and grading the roads. This is not too far from Cox South. There was a 24 hour grocery store on West Battlefield at the time of the abduction (not far from the constuction on Seminole.) I've never thought this was a random act. It seems too well planned. I've always thought it was done by local(s). Maybe they met the wrong person at George's. Maybe the girls attracted someone from the party.

[Missouri Mule]

Thought this would be of interest to this discussion.
==================================================

SPRINGFIELD, Mo. (AP) - Springfield investigators looking into the disappearance of three women have gone back to the place they were last seen.

The women disappeared June 7 from a Springfield home. This week, investigators went back to the neighborhood to question neighbors and employees in a nearby office building.

They are backtracking and double-checking for clues into the disappearances of Sherrill Levitt, 47, her daughter, Suzie Streeter, 19, and Streeter's classmate, Stacy McCall, 18.

At least one tip has rekindled suspicion that the vehicle used to take the women from Levitt's home was a van, and the suspect may live nearby.

The tip was reported early in the investigation, but was lost in a mound of paperwork that includes more than 18,000 reports, officials said.

One of Levitt's former neighbors told police this week that a dirty white van had cruised the neighborhood for up to three weeks before the disappearances, detective David Asher said. When the women vanished, so did the van.

All police know about the driver is that he has been described as a white male in his mid-20s to mid-30s. He wore prominent sideburns and kept a mane of brown hair pulled away from his face, Asher said.

Another witness said the van was later painted metallic moss-green and was seen during the early daylight hours of June 7....

(Snip)

The Kansas City Star
June 17, 1992
Edition: MID-AMERICA
Section: MID-AMERICA
Page: C2

And this:

Missing-Women Investigators Focus on Sightings of Vans

Author: AP Article Text:

SPRINGFIELD, Mo. (AP) - Two months into the case of three missing women, investigators are focusing on separate sightings of two vans. They say either vehicle could have been used to abduct the women....

(Snip)

One or more suspects abducted the women in the early hours of June 7, after the teen-agers returned from high school graduation parties to spend the night at Ms. Levitt's home.
The abductor probably was an acquaintance of the women, most likely Ms. Levitt or her daughter, because investigators found no signs of forced entry or struggle in the home.

Somebody in the Springfield area knows who abducted the women but has not told police - despite a $46,000 reward - out of fear of retaliation.

Capt. Tony Glenn said investigators were focusing on the possibility that a van could have been used in the abduction.

A witness saw a brown 1964-70 Dodge van, with a rusted bottom and no side or rear windows, within a block of the Levitt home at 4:30 a.m. on June 7.Glenn said the brown van has not been seen since, and no one has come forward to explain its presence near the home that morning.

"I don't have any reason to think it was not involved, but I don't have any evidence that it was," Glenn said.

"It's the only one (van) we can put around the house in the right time frame." ...

(Snip)

Gerald Dove, the lead investigator on the van sightings, said other witnesses saw a similar van parked at a dentist's office near the home on June 3 and June 4. No firm link has been established in those sightings, Glenn said.

Investigators have released less information on a second van, a dusty gray-green vehicle that was seen in eastern Springfield several blocks from the Levitt home between 6:30 and 7 a.m. that day...

(Snip)


Tulsa World
August 7, 1992
Edition: FINAL HOME EDITION
Section: NEWS
Page: A8

[Ken]

When the authorities dig up the concrete at the parking garage and they find the three missing women; Stacy McCall will make history. Stacy will have done what Harry Houdini failed to do...prove the existence of life after death.

Even though I experienced a life changing vision with her in November of 1998, it was an uncomfortable and painful experience. She made it perfectly clear to me that she is furious.

Mrs. McCall has stated in the media that she believes her daughter could be alive. When the dig takes place at the parking garage; it will prove Mrs. McCall right. Just not in the way that she thinks.

There is an old saying: "Dead men tell no tales." That myth is one that will soon be busted.

Ken

[Starlight]

Joshua 3:9

"And Joshua said unto the children of Israel, come hither, and hear the words of the Lord your God."

Thank you for 'listening' Ken. Thank you for stubbornly refusing to give up, even in the face of your enemies. I believe your faith and trust will reveal all that is under that concrete, one day soon.

[Old_School_PDA]

I don't think Ky3 would run this story without checking facts or checking the man's creditials. However, wasn't the parking garage already there in 92? Also, if not, that area was far from barren in 92. Two hospitals were nearby. People could have watched the perps digging graves from the Cox South windows. I would hate to be digging graves at a major intersection within sight of a 7 story building with a 24 hour staff. I think it is telling that none of the other news outlets have covered the story.--Ky3 may be looking to generate interest for a 15 year anniversary special.
-Mule, in one of your earlier posts you alluded to a possible suspect that may have dated Levitt. Was this the guy in town that always seemed to be a suspect anytime a girl turned up dead or nearly abducted? Do you know who I'm talking about? I'm sure he was a suspect in the Jackie Johns case. I think he actually got caught in an attempted abduction once. If Levitt actually dated him, that would be news. I don't want to use his name online. However, if you lived in Springfield, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

Witnesses remember the van cruising the area up to three weeks before the abduction. Why would an aquaintance "case" the area for 3 weeks. Most of these clues don't fit together.
By the way-I don't mean to be ghoulish-I drove by 1717 Delmar, and you're right. It is more secluded than I remember.

Not only that, but even the press can't get information. I have been told by at least two close to the scene that everything goes into a "black hole." It's the darnest case I have ever seen.

I've never been a big fan of this dig but what is there to lose? I have two alternative theories where the bodies are located and either one would be plausible. But after viewing the streaming video out of KY-3 the other night, the gentleman doing the scan seemed highly credible and his credentials impeccable. On the other hand the police spokesman said his "experts" disagreed although he offered up no evidence they were any more qualified than the local dogcatcher. Too much is made of so-called "experts" anyway. They are a dime a dozen and many make their living traveling across the country to testify at trials and make a handsome living.

Just more stalling as far as I can tell. Either they aren't working the case, or they are working the case and keeping it close to the vest; so close in fact that they refuse to talk to the press about this particular case. I contacted the local newspaper and they have approached the SPD about a special series on cold cases in the area. They said they will talk about every other case but not about this one. I have no clue what this means. So far as I know they may be on the cusp of putting handcuffs on the perpetrators or they are just letting the case gather dust. I sent a message off to the FBI today to see if they will give up any information. They were involved from the outset with profilers and all the rest. I don't think they close the case until it is solved, or at least that was my understanding. If anyone knows differently please feel free to correct me.

[Missouri Mule]

I don't think Ky3 would run this story without checking facts or checking the man's creditials. However, wasn't the parking garage already there in 92? Also, if not, that area was far from barren in 92. Two hospitals were nearby. People could have watched the perps digging graves from the Cox South windows. I would hate to be digging graves at a major intersection within sight of a 7 story building with a 24 hour staff. I think it is telling that none of the other news outlets have covered the story.--Ky3 may be looking to generate interest for a 15 year anniversary special.

-Mule, in one of your earlier posts you alluded to a possible suspect that may have dated Levitt. Was this the guy in town that always seemed to be a suspect anytime a girl turned up dead or nearly abducted? Do you know who I'm talking about? I'm sure he was a suspect in the Jackie Johns case. I think he actually got caught in an attempted abduction once. If Levitt actually dated him, that would be news. I don't want to use his name online. However, if you lived in Springfield, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

Witnesses remember the van cruising the area up to three weeks before the abduction. Why would an aquaintance "case" the area for 3 weeks. Most of these clues don't fit together.

By the way-I don't mean to be ghoulish-I drove by 1717 Delmar, and you're right. It is more secluded than I remember.
I lived in or around Springfield from 1975 to 2001. Truthfully, I don't know when the parking lot was put in there.

Yes, I do know who you are talking about. The rumor was that Sherrill Levitt had dated a businessman. I believe that was attributed to friends of Suzie who evidently heard this rumor. I know nothing further about it. I suspect a lot of this stuff is nothing more than rumor.

I agree completely that the two facts do not fit together. The case must ultimately rest on the elimination of possibilities to arrive at the irreducible minimum facts. Or to quote Sherlock Holmes:

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Having said that I believe the case is less than meets the eye. And in the end, people will slap themselves on the forehead and ask themselves why didn't they look at the obvious hiding in plain sight?

[Starlight]

Lets not forget that the police always hold back information on these cases that only they and the perpetrators would know about. They aren't putting all their knowledge on the news or in the papers. I trust that they have done a satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory. What possible gain could there be for them NOT to solve this case? Get another 'expert' with this ground penetrating radar out there and if you can get two different people to come up with the same belief then perhaps it's worth digging up. Doesn't seem to be anyone wanting to dip their professional reputation in that pool though.
Miles Draken is wrong. There are several people who are willing to 'dip their professional reputation in that pool,' as he says.
When Mike Owen spoke of the instrument that was used, and how he didn't believe in it, how 'his experts' said it doesn't exist, he was referring to the first scan that was done back in April.
That scan was done by Tim Gray. Tim came to my home and spent a week-end with my family and me in July. He brought the instrument and demonstrated it for several of us. It most assuredly does exist, whether Mike Owen believes in it or not.
Tim Gray offered to go back to Springfield and meet with Cox Hospital officials as well as the local police. His offer was rejected.
No one has ever contacted me, except Detective Gregg Higdon, whom they got rid of within weeks of our 'discovery.' I sent Higdon all the information, including phone numbers for everyone involved. It did no good.
Rick Norland was called in because he couldn't be accused of 'being part of our team.' He knows nothing about anything that's been going on, and was not interested in proving anyone right -- or wrong.
And how did the Springfield police do a 'satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory?' What did they do to 'discount' it? I'll tell you what they did. They went and talked to people at the university down there, and then got on KY# and said that their 'experts' had 'debunked' our claim, by simply saying that GPR was not capable of finding graves.
In the interview, Owen swung from Tim Gray [without ever mentioning the man's name] over to Rick Norland, and he rolled it all together as if he was simply talking about one scan, and one scan only.
Further more, there was an article published within weeks after Tim Gray was down there and did his scan. This article glorified a new GPR that the university had. In the article [which I have posted on my web site] the 'experts' at the university 'bragged' that the machine could be used to 'find graves with.'
Monica Caison is a well known and respected person. She operates the CUE Center in Wilmington, North Carolina, and owns search dogs. She has offered her assistance.
Now I raised and trained German Shepherd Dogs for police, security, search and rescue, tracking, etc, for more than 25 years. I don't know if a dog could pick up a cadaver scent beneath concrete, when it's nearly fifteen years old -- but you know what .... I don't know that they couldn't either. Why don't I know the answer to this simple question? Because the Springfield police have never put forth even this simple amount of effort to try to determine if, in fact there are human remains beneath that concrete, that's why.
My real question is this ...... what's the big deal? They have dug up half the territory with far less evidence than they have now ...... so what's the problem?? Owen says they have spent an enormous amount of time following our tips ...... how'd he do that? We only gave him one tip. He said our 'tip' was vague and not specific enough.
Okay, here it is again .........
The women are buried under 2 to 3 feet of concrete, in the rear parking garage at Cox Hospital South. Two of them are side by side. The third one is spaced a few feet away from the other two. They are still wearing some jewelry, and they may be wrapped in something. If they still can't find the 'spot,' there are at least three people who can take them directly to it .......... probably blindfolded by this time! If they can't afford to core the concrete, there are people willing to put up their own money to get the job done. How much more specific can a person get? How much more 'reputation' is required?

[tresor613]

I agree. Since people are willing to put up their own money, why not do the dig and see what is there? With nothing to lose, it is an obvious miscarriage of the justice system for the dig not to be done. All they have to lose now is nothing if other parties are willing to pay. And, if they are right and nothing is there, I suppose they can put another feather in their cap and say "We were right..."

For free, don't the missing girls deserve this? Who is hiding what?

[Missouri Mule]

Has it occurred to anyone why Mike Owen was the spokesman for the Springfield Police Department?

BTW, for those interested, I now believe that the "moss green" van was a hoax. The van in question was always dirty white just as the witness that saw it cruise the neighborhood some three weeks prior to the abductions. That moss green van sat on the grounds of the Springfield Police lawn for four months and meanwhile it was never the color of the van that was actually used. How convenient!!

And then ask yourself why Mike Owen was the spokesman for the investigation on KY-3.

Folks, this isn't rocket science here.

[Missouri Mule]

I agree. Since people are willing to put up their own money, why not do the dig and see what is there? With nothing to lose, it is an obvious miscarriage of the justice system for the dig not to be done. All they have to lose now is nothing if other parties are willing to pay. And, if they are right and nothing is there, I suppose they can put another feather in their cap and say "We were right..."

For free, don't the missing girls deserve this? Who is hiding what?
But we are assuming that they haven't already done a probe and know they are there or are not there, aren't we? Remember what they say about "assume."

You can be fairly certain that whoever was involved in this crime monitors this and all sites on the internet looking for information about the progress of the case because they certainly are not getting it out of the police department that has locked this thing down tighter than a tick. The police are waiting for the perps to make mistakes; show their hands and turn on one another. And they know that it only takes one of them to turn state's evidence and the rest all go down for the count. First one in gets a "free get out of jail card." The rest get to spend the rest of their time on earth modeling those pretty orange jump suits.

I challenge anyone to get information out of the police department about this crime. You might as well wait for the sun to rise in the west. They aren't talking.

[Starlight]

Either I'm confused, or a bunch of other people are.

I'm NOT assuming that the police examined the area in question, at all. Why would I assume that when Mike Owen plainly stated they had no intentions of examining it?
Furthermore, I do not 'request information' from the police. I GIVE them information.
I have discussed many cases with many, many cops, judges, prosecuting attorneys and news reporters ........ dozens of cases, all across the nation. The only questions that I have ever asked is .... does my information fit the case? In most cases this information pertains to clothing, direction of travel, etc. Sometimes, in missing person cases, it pertains to where the body can be found. There is no way any cop, anywhere on earth can say the information is no good until they have searched the area that I have pinpointed.
In the three missing Missouri women's case, most people involved knew it would do no good to tell the cops [in fact they had already been told several times by Ken] where the remains were located. So, we took it a step further. We hired people to do scans of the area ........ then we GAVE that information to the cops.
No one that I know of is trying to get information from the police. In fact, I could care less about who killed the women, or where the killer[s] are. You cannot have a 'murder' investigation unless and until the remains are found and it's actually determined the people are dead.
With Mrs. McCall telling everyone she believes her daughter is alive, then common sense dictates the other two women are alive also. Must be run-a-ways, I suppose. They sure traveled light.
All information that the people I work with have, has been handed over to the police and that includes the person we believe is responsible .... a man who's already in prison, and has no reason to talk. As long as the women are not recovered, he will remain in prison. However, if they are found -- especially if they are found as this man has described -- then he faces the electric chair. Why would he talk?
Again, I repeat, no one I know of is trying to get information from the police.
The reporter that I mentioned was offering to do an article on the women -- and possibly generate some 'tips for the police.' They forbade him to do a story on these missing women.

[Missouri Mule]

Either I'm confused, or a bunch of other people are.

I'm NOT assuming that the police examined the area in question, at all. Why would I assume that when Mike Owen plainly stated they had no intentions of examining it?
Furthermore, I do not 'request information' from the police. I GIVE them information.
I have discussed many cases with many, many cops, judges, prosecuting attorneys and news reporters ........ dozens of cases, all across the nation. The only questions that I have ever asked is .... does my information fit the case? In most cases this information pertains to clothing, direction of travel, etc. Sometimes, in missing person cases, it pertains to where the body can be found. There is no way any cop, anywhere on earth can say the information is no good until they have searched the area that I have pinpointed.
In the three missing Missouri women's case, most people involved knew it would do no good to tell the cops [in fact they had already been told several times by Ken] where the remains were located. So, we took it a step further. We hired people to do scans of the area ........ then we GAVE that information to the cops.
No one that I know of is trying to get information from the police. In fact, I could care less about who killed the women, or where the killer[s] are. You cannot have a 'murder' investigation unless and until the remains are found and it's actually determined the people are dead.
With Mrs. McCall telling everyone she believes her daughter is alive, then common sense dictates the other two women are alive also. Must be run-a-ways, I suppose. They sure traveled light.
All information that the people I work with have, has been handed over to the police and that includes the person we believe is responsible .... a man who's already in prison, and has no reason to talk. As long as the women are not recovered, he will remain in prison. However, if they are found -- especially if they are found as this man has described -- then he faces the electric chair. Why would he talk?
Again, I repeat, no one I know of is trying to get information from the police.
The reporter that I mentioned was offering to do an article on the women -- and possibly generate some 'tips for the police.' They forbade him to do a story on these missing women.That's what Owen said on camera. Absence of evidence does not prove evidence of absence. We can't be sure either way.

As to Cox, I deduce the reason he will not talk is simply he doesn't have anything to say. He's going to rot in prison anyway. He could call up to the Prosecuting Attorney's office today and say he's ready to work a deal in return for giving up the location of the bodies. The deal would be a life sentence. He could be famous like Ted Bundy and have books and women swooning over him like Bundy. He would return to his home state to be near family. Instead, he's in the middle of Nowhere, Texas rotting in a solitary confinement cell in total obscurity. What's the upside of that? He knows he is a no good varmit. Why not get in some of the famous true crime writers like Ann Rule and tell his story and humanize him? That's what I would do in his shoes. Become famous. He gives up a little to go down in the history books, like Bundy. Billy the Kid and Jesse James, both psychopaths are today seen as some kind of heroes. Movies would be made about him and his "deprived" childhood and all of that stuff. Instead, he will die in total obscurity in prison and buried in a cheap pine box in the middle of Nowhere, Texas. Doesn't compute.

[Cambria]

I haven't posted anything on this for a while. Not being anywhere near Missouri I am not at all familiar with the territory like most of you are. Also, I'm not near clever enough to come up with any sound ideas to discuss it further here or at airalex.com.

I remain very interested in the case though, to the point where I think of it daily and I still would like to see more media coverage on it. To that end, I signed the petition at airalex and I e-mailed 48 Hours, Greta Van Susteren, Nancy Grace and Dateline about it in the hopes of getting some much-needed national coverage. Even if 48 Hours could air their original broadcast of the episode they showed in 1992 and 1997, that would at least get it on national TV again.

I stopped short of writing to Janis McCall about the Vidocq Society, which I brought up as a possible suggestion in an earlier post on here. It's a touchy situation, with her believing Stacy is alive, to communicate with her about contacting them, although they could approach it as a missing persons case and tactfully handle it like a "disappearance" rather than looking for a body. Since a family member of the missing person has to be the one to touch base with the Vidocq Society, I may still try to contact her about it because I think they are a very reputable organization and I just keep thinking if some other outside entity gets involved in this, things may finally start to move forward.

[Ken]

How come Sgt. Mike Owen doesn't mention the Streeter-Levitt family and their thoughts on the dig? Shouldn't they have a say so in this considering they have two family members missing?

[Missouri Mule]

What color do you personally believe the van was that abducted the women on 6/7/92? It is not an incidental matter. The van has been variously described as "moss green", "dark brown", "dirty white" (or tea stained), and "dark blue."

The police's "official" version is that it was "moss green." I do not concur. I believe it was "dirty white/tea stained" rather than the "moss green" van displayed on the grounds of the Springfield police station for several months.

Which begs the question. Why was the color "moss green" the "official" color the police settled on, when the best evidence was that it was more likely the "dirty white or tea stained" colored vehicle seen for three weeks prior to the abductions? If anyone wishes to debate the issue, I would be delighted.

[Cambria]

What color do you personally believe the van was that abducted the women on 6/7/92? It is not an incidental matter. The van has been variously described as "moss green", "dark brown", "dirty white" (or tea stained), and "dark blue."

The police's "official" version is that it was "moss green." I do not concur. I believe it was "dirty white/tea stained" rather than the "moss green" van displayed on the grounds of the Springfield police station for several months.

Which begs the question. Why was the color "moss green" the "official" color the police settled on, when the best evidence was that it was more likely the "dirty white or tea stained" colored vehicle seen for three weeks prior to the abductions? If anyone wishes to debate the issue, I would be delighted.
I believe it was the dirty white/tea stained color too. I'm almost positive that is what I had read in the earliest versions of the newspaper accounts. That was also one of the reasons I kept leaning toward some kind of cover-up because I couldn't understand why in the "official police version" they said it was moss green.

[Missouri Mule]

I believe it was the dirty white/tea stained color too. I'm almost positive that is what I had read in the earliest versions of the newspaper accounts. That was also one of the reasons I kept leaning toward some kind of cover-up because I couldn't understand why in the "official police version" they said it was moss green.Thank you. That makes it 2-0 in favor of the dirtywhite/tea stained van.

It is my understanding that Mike Owen (formerly or is still with "internal investigations) is the lead investigator of this case at the current time. That being the case, perhaps there is some indication that an actual cover-up is involved here. And I suspect it goes a good deal higher up the food chain as well. I won't go into the reasons why I believe that to be so here on an open forum such as this and I also have reason to believe that "prying eyes" have an unnatural interest in this case.

But what is the motive here? The only thing that I can think of is that it must have something to do with money. And that inevitably calls up the suspicion of drugs. But I do not believe, nor have I ever seen any evidence that the victims had any involvement with drugs; certainly not Stacy. But there was some reason that those victims were taken from that home near the early twilight never to be seen again. Although I have entertained the view that a serial killer might be involved I no longer believe it to be so and I also do not believe that Cox was the perpetrator. What could the motive have been that was so powerful that Suzie and her mother must dissappear forever? That's the $64,000 question.

[Ken]

A description of my vision with Stacy McCall can be found at:
http://users.1st.net/mwells/Visions.htm

There are some odds & ends that are not described in the vision that probably should be. First, Stacy wasn't kneeling in prayer on my bed. She was kneeling in prayer on the floor next to my bed. She was positioned between my dresser and my bed. When I looked to my right, not only could I see Stacy; I could also see my digital clock on my bedroom wall. It gave the time in red lights. I knew that the vision was taking place at just after 4 a.m., because I could see the "4". Stacy's head was blocking the last two digits.

Stacy's hair is very long and it is cut into a "V Pattern" that comes to within one inch from the bottom hem of her shirt. Her hair is not long enough to touch the bottom hem. The "V Pattern" coupled with the way her hair flows off the back of her head toward her shoulders; creates a "diamond shape" that I observed.

In the vision, I wrote that I could clearly see the fuzzballs on her shirt. The word "fuzz" is slang for Police. At the end of the vision, Stacy turned as if she were saying "NO!" and then she disappeared. I found it very interesting when the Springfield Police told the public they didn't want to dig. Very interesting.

[miles_draken]

I hope this case gets solved soon. Whether or not they find the women in a slab of concrete or buried in the woods, or hopefully alive and well, as unlikely as that seems after all this time, so we can find out how wrong all these conspiracy theories and visions were. But, I guess everyone will just find new interpretations for them. Like Nostrodamus' predictions the events are predicted only in hindsight. Nobody knows what the hell the guy is talking about until some bad event takes place and they tie it back to one of his 'visions'. This thread is becoming downright silly. There is a real investigation behind all this X-Files stuff. Lets leave the Ghost Whispering to Jennifer Love Hewitt.

[laini]

I hope this case gets solved soon. Whether or not they find the women in a slab of concrete or buried in the woods, or hopefully alive and well, as unlikely as that seems after all this time, so we can find out how wrong all these conspiracy theories and visions were. But, I guess everyone will just find new interpretations for them. Like Nostrodamus' predictions the events are predicted only in hindsight. Nobody knows what the hell the guy is talking about until some bad event takes place and they tie it back to one of his 'visions'. This thread is becoming downright silly. There is a real investigation behind all this X-Files stuff. Lets leave the Ghost Whispering to Jennifer Love Hewitt.
I agree milesdraken.

[Missouri Mule]

I agree milesdraken.
It's not for lack of names and information. That's the second biggest mystery surrounding this case. Anything that goes to the SPD is like feeding a "black hole." The only thing I can figure is that the prosecutor is trying to wrap up a slam-dunk case. They will make movies about this for years if it is ultimately solved. You would not believe the stuff that is known about this case that is not in the public domain.

[Starlight]

Miles Draken said -- in part -- "so we can find out how wrong all these conspiracy theories and visions were. But, I guess everyone will just find new interpretations for them. Like Nostrodamus' predictions the events are predicted only in hindsight."

Guess you watched the episode on Nostradamus over the week-end too! However, Ken Young's 'vision' has not been left up to humanity to 'interpret.' His vision[s] have been interpreted, not in 'hindsight' as you so boldly accuse, but far in advance of the discovery of these women. The location has already been named, along with the time period. Notice he said he could see the number [4] in his vision. April is the fourth month of the year. That's when the first scan took place.
There will be no 'new interpretations' for anything that is posted on my web site concerning this case or any other case.
A 'prediction' is something given in advance. If it pan's out [comes true] then it becomes a fulfillment of a prediction. There's enough information posted concerning this vision, and enough people have read it to know if it 'comes true, then there's no 'hindsight' involved in it.
I designed an entire web site because of this very type of accusation. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I do NOT have a history or a reputation for coming along after the fact and claiming credit for other people's work. That's not my style.
And as far as everyone getting tired of this type of conversation -- what do you have contribute?
The "Stacy Vision Theory" is the best bet in nearly 15 years. It gives more answers than anything before, or since.
And, lest you forget -- there's been two 'scientific' scans conducted in the area, that seem to confirm there's something there, so I wouldn't say everything is 'psychic.' We've already verified the 'psychic' portions, and that's no longer debatable. What Miles Draken [and others] are bickering over at this point, and trying to debunk is actually scientifically accepted results that are used in many, many areas for various purposes!
Pray tell -- what will you say when the vision, the interpretation and the tests pan-out, and the women are precisely where we said they are?

[miles_draken]

I'd be willing to bet my X-Files DVD collection that this vision doesn't lead to bodies in the parking garage. And hasn't that been a theory for years before Ken's vision? The police say there isn't any proof that there are bodies underneath there. Personally, I think all of you who believe this should start a fund raiser to open the ground up and see what is showing up on this guys GPR. And I have read this vision in detail at the website and it's vague and open to interpretation. The problem with interpretation is anyone can make it fit their particulair theory. Why hasn't a single psychic won the lottery by the way? If I could see the future I'd certainly see the numbers for the next drawing. And don't try to tell me that psychics aren't in it for the money, I know that isn't true.

On a lighter note:

Do you know how many psychics it takes to screw in a light bulb??

Two, but nobody has figured out how to get them inside the light bulb yet.

[miles_draken]

Missouri Mule, I'm sorry I missed your post. I do believe there are things pertinent to the investigation that the police have withheld, they do in every investigation. I don't believe there are three people who could keep a conspiracy quiet, let alone an entire department. The FBI CIA and the Mafia aren't hiding a conspiracy over Kennedy's assassination. It just isn't plausible that the Springfield PD would be involved in a conspiracy over this case.

[Missouri Mule]

Missouri Mule, I'm sorry I missed your post. I do believe there are things pertinent to the investigation that the police have withheld, they do in every investigation. I don't believe there are three people who could keep a conspiracy quiet, let alone an entire department. The FBI CIA and the Mafia aren't hiding a conspiracy over Kennedy's assassination. It just isn't plausible that the Springfield PD would be involved in a conspiracy over this case.I don't believe in conspiracies either. I actually believe that Oswald acted alone although I had earlier toyed with the idea there were others involved. I was very much emotionally wrapped up in Kennedy's murder as I was only about 18 at the time. But after time and the facts have come out Oswald had the means, the motive, and the opportunity. I consider the case closed.

As to this crime, we have two elements of the crime, the means and the opportunity but the motive is not known for a certainty. That's where I have centered my thoughts for the past 15 years. I had developed my own theory of what happened but it had one big hole in it and it was the $800 left in Sherrill's purse. I have largely abandoned that theory.

What I think happened is that the crime was related to the grave robbing business but not directly. And I also think that two vans were involved; one that left town immediately with the women and a second one as a decoy to confuse the investigation. The most credible account was that of the dirty white van that cruised the neighborhood some three weeks prior to the abduction. But instead we get this official version of a "moss green" van business and a replica was parked on the SPD grounds for several months. I think the whole business of the moss green van was just part of a deception to throw sand in the investigator's eyes and confuse and befuddle the public. The timeline simply makes no sense for that van to have surfaced around the time when it should have been long gone. That has nagged at me for 15 years. There had to be two vans.

And I also happen to believe that the bodies are not to be found under the slab at the parking garage either. I did however sign the two petitions in order to get it off that angle and where it belongs. I have a some ideas where the bodies are actually buried and I have reason to believe the police do as well. But trying to get information out of them is like trying to strike gold in our front lawns. They are not talking. Not even to the press. Not about this case. No sir buddy. Not about this case. It's off limits.

[laini]

:laugh:
Hilarious!


Do you know how many psychics it takes to screw in a light bulb??
Two, but nobody has figured out how to get them inside the light bulb yet.
Regarding psychics... I will eat my words when a psychic finds ONE of the THOUSANDS of missing people or solves a crime for the first time. Until then, I will just have to utilize my ignore button option here at webslueths. (the only time I have had to use ignore here).

[Starlight]

Talk is cheap; gossip and speculation is worthless, and everyone has an opinion. Some have gone beyond mere speculation in many of these unsolved cases and put their time and money where their mouth is. As far as psychics are concerned - or at least as far as this psychic is concerned, I'd suggest you remember that the 'ignore' button works both ways. I've posted much of my own work, on my own website, simply so, when the cases are eventually solved, people can see for themselves what fits and what doesn't.
As far as interpretation is concerned ....... there's not much you can do when a person tells you ...... "The next murder victim found will have shoulder length medium brown hair; she will be wearing a blue shirt, jeans, tennis shoes and there will be something worn on her left hand that is important. She will be dragged from her home, or a vehicle [I feel metal] and will be struck one time. The first blow will take her down and she will live only seconds after she hits the ground. She will be found in an area where there is a gravel turn around, and if God is willing and the creeks don't rise, maybe we'll have the answer to more than a dozen years of questions."
This is a direct quote from information I sent to my local police. It is but one example of my work. There are hundreds that I could give.
The next 'murder victim' to be found was Lisa Burkhammer. She'd been missing for 12 and 1/2 years by the time she was found. The chief of police had started the rumor that Lisa ran away because her father was molesting her. He claimed she was alive and well, married with two children and living in Florida. Lisa's father died under this 'umbrella of vicious suspicion,' and some six months later they found his daughter just a short distance from an old cemetery in Lower Salem, Ohio.
Lisa's killer was Dale Sparks. He stated to the police that he dragged her from his vehicle, struck her in the back of the head and the blow took her down. He said she lived only seconds after she hit the ground. The cemetery where Lisa was found had a graveled drive-through area. Lisa wore jeans, a blue t-shirt with a blue western shirt over top of it and tennis shoes. Her ball glove [ which fit on her left hand] was found in Dale Sparks' vehicle shortly after Lisa disappeared. The police had released absolutely none of this information -- for 12 and 1/2 years they had remained silent about Lisa. Oh, and by the way, the 'creeks' had all just overflowed their backs in the area where Lisa was found -- in fact we had quite a flood in this area at that time.
No, I didn't get any credit for Lisa's case, but what I did get was confirmation. When the very cop I sent the information to admitted he began working the case 2 and 1/2 years earlier, I checked the dates on the information I'd sent him and lo-n-behold it was precisely 2 and 1/2 years earlier.
With that said, I'm going back to minding my own business. The Springfield, Missouri case is not the only case that I'm involved in, and you can rest assured that I am not being ignored in many of the cases.
I have defended myself, and those involved in this mess as much as I intend to.

[Missouri Mule]

Talk is cheap; gossip and speculation is worthless, and everyone has an opinion. Some have gone beyond mere speculation in many of these unsolved cases and put their time and money where their mouth is. As far as psychics are concerned - or at least as far as this psychic is concerned, I'd suggest you remember that the 'ignore' button works both ways. I've posted much of my own work, on my own website, simply so, when the cases are eventually solved, people can see for themselves what fits and what doesn't.
As far as interpretation is concerned ....... there's not much you can do when a person tells you ...... "The next murder victim found will have shoulder length medium brown hair; she will be wearing a blue shirt, jeans, tennis shoes and there will be something worn on her left hand that is important. She will be dragged from her home, or a vehicle [I feel metal] and will be struck one time. The first blow will take her down and she will live only seconds after she hits the ground. She will be found in an area where there is a gravel turn around, and if God is willing and the creeks don't rise, maybe we'll have the answer to more than a dozen years of questions."
This is a direct quote from information I sent to my local police. It is but one example of my work. There are hundreds that I could give.
The next 'murder victim' to be found was Lisa Burkhammer. She'd been missing for 12 and 1/2 years by the time she was found. The chief of police had started the rumor that Lisa ran away because her father was molesting her. He claimed she was alive and well, married with two children and living in Florida. Lisa's father died under this 'umbrella of vicious suspicion,' and some six months later they found his daughter just a short distance from an old cemetery in Lower Salem, Ohio.
Lisa's killer was Dale Sparks. He stated to the police that he dragged her from his vehicle, struck her in the back of the head and the blow took her down. He said she lived only seconds after she hit the ground. The cemetery where Lisa was found had a graveled drive-through area. Lisa wore jeans, a blue t-shirt with a blue western shirt over top of it and tennis shoes. Her ball glove [ which fit on her left hand] was found in Dale Sparks' vehicle shortly after Lisa disappeared. The police had released absolutely none of this information -- for 12 and 1/2 years they had remained silent about Lisa. Oh, and by the way, the 'creeks' had all just overflowed their backs in the area where Lisa was found -- in fact we had quite a flood in this area at that time.
No, I didn't get any credit for Lisa's case, but what I did get was confirmation. When the very cop I sent the information to admitted he began working the case 2 and 1/2 years earlier, I checked the dates on the information I'd sent him and lo-n-behold it was precisely 2 and 1/2 years earlier.
With that said, I'm going back to minding my own business. The Springfield, Missouri case is not the only case that I'm involved in, and you can rest assured that I am not being ignored in many of the cases.
I have defended myself, and those involved in this mess as much as I intend to.Starlight, I can't speak for the rest of the folks here but I am absolutely not discounting what you have said. I simply don't know what is under that slab at the parking lot garage. I want them to dig and I hope you are right so that we can get this investigation off the dime and make it a murder investgation publically which I have it on good authority it is already.

There is some reason the police will not dig there. There are six possible reasons offhand I can think of. 1) They don't want to dig because they sincerely do not believe the bodies are there and how and why they would believe that I do not know as I can't get into their heads. 2) They won't dig because there is the need to maintain the blanket over this investigation and want the perps to sweat blood which I would maintain is going on as I speak. 3) There is a big conspiracy at the police and prosecutor's office and they are maintaining a department wide conspiracy. 4) They are so concerned about the surviving relative's feelings that they simply can't bring them to give the bad news that the women have been found dead. 5) They already know the bodies are there and the garage has been wired and cameras have been concealed to see and hear everyone who visits that site. 6) They simply don't care about solving the case and are drinking their coffee and eating donuts.

I have a specific recollection that when I viewed that van on the SPD lawn back in 1992 that a black and white followed me half way home. Of the reasons I can think of at the moment I am inclined to go with reason #2. They want to confuse everyone and frustrate everyone including the perps who don't know anything about this investigation and where it is going. I believe this case is being carried by a tight knit circle of cops and the prosecutor's office and nothing, but absolutely nothing leaks out. They want to nail the perps with a trip to the death house and are hoping that at least one of them breaks silence and makes the first move to give up his cohorts. That's my opinion. I have nothing to back that up except logic and a little intuition. If anyone wants to argue with me I would be delighted or if someone wants to put forth other reasons I would be equally delighted.

[Ken]

IF my vision with Stacy McCall were a pleasant one that included singing birds on a sunshine filled day; I don't believe the SPD would have a problem with the dig. However, my vision is not a pleasant one. It is a painful and uncomfortable vision that many people find offensive. IF the SPD were to dig and find the 3MW; it would confirm my vision as being genuine and I don't believe the SPD or the McCall's can face it.

When Sgt. Mike Owen stated on camera that he didn't want to upset the McCall's; I personally believe this IS the dilemma that he was referring to. This would put him in an uncomfortable position of having to explain to the McCall's how this "offensive vision" played a crucial role in finding the 3MW. I personally believe this IS the reason why they haven't dug.

I know for a fact that Sgt. Mike Owen has had conversations with at least three people about my vision with Stacy McCall. It's probably more than that. However, I can confirm three people for sure. This tells me that he has read and is familiar with my vision. Even though my vision is not a pleasant one; it is the truth. Without it, the videotaped GPR scan at the parking garage never takes place.

[Missouri Mule]

IF my vision with Stacy McCall were a pleasant one that included singing birds on a sunshine filled day; I don't believe the SPD would have a problem with the dig. However, my vision is not a pleasant one. It is a painful and uncomfortable vision that many people find offensive. IF the SPD were to dig and find the 3MW; it would confirm my vision as being genuine and I don't believe the SPD or the McCall's can face it.

When Sgt. Mike Owen stated on camera that he didn't want to upset the McCall's; I personally believe this IS the dilemma that he was referring to. This would put him in an uncomfortable position of having to explain to the McCall's how this "offensive vision" played a crucial role in finding the 3MW. I personally believe this IS the reason why they haven't dug.

I know for a fact that Sgt. Mike Owen has had conversations with at least three people about my vision with Stacy McCall. It's probably more than that. However, I can confirm three people for sure. This tells me that he has read and is familiar with my vision. I pray that Sgt. Mike Owen spends some quality time studying my vision. Even though my vision is not a pleasant one; it is the truth.Well, if there is one thing that I CAN confirm is that Ken and I have exchanged several e-mails and he can confirm that I disagreed with him strongly about the garage. Nevertheless, and I cannot explain it, and I will not rule out the possibility, however remote, that he had a vision that none of us can explain. Or as Sherlock Holmes would say:

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Having said that, I don't believe the bodies are there. I have never believed the bodies are there but that is part of my belief system. The simple fact is that I don't KNOW if they are there or not. Therefore, the dig should be made. It is an inexpensive dig, and easily repairable and then we will have an up or down answer whether or not they are there. Ken has staked his good name on this vision. If David Asher, the original lead detective, felt the need to talk to no less than 11 psychics and could listen to someone tell him that the man behind this awful crime had a "big desk" and "wingtip shoes" and say this on camera ("48 Hours"), then why not? Several hundred names are already on the various petitions to do the dig. If anyone at the Springfield Police Department is monitoring this site (and they certainly know about it), then why not do the decent thing and do the dig. Get it over with and back to the investigation and do the job the taxpayers pay to have done; namely "to protect and serve." If they couldn't protect these fine young women from the depravity that is the essense of this crime they ought to at least serve the community to bring justice and closure to this case. My additional $0.02.

[Ken]

Regarding psychics... I will eat my words when a psychic finds ONE of the THOUSANDS of missing people or solves a crime for the first time. Until then, I will just have to utilize my ignore button option here at webslueths. (the only time I have had to use ignore here).There are millions of people missing...not thousands.

Imagine looking at a blue marble in a fish tank. You can "see" the blue marble through the glass and through the water. The frequency of light from the blue marble is different from it's surroundings, so you can easily see it. The principle used to find the 3MW is similar in approach. It's called Micro Impulse Radar. It can "see" through concrete because everything has a unique resonating frequency, including Mercury. Mercury is found in teeth fillings. When Tim Gray did his initial scan, his instrument picked up a signal unique for Mercury. Tim's instrument is unique in that it can detect resonating frequencies from considerable distances away and be able to pinpoint an objects exact location. This is the technology that found the three missing women at the parking garage.

Tim's instrument is a prototype and it's not mainstream technology. It's a Pandora's Box in that if this technology were to go mainstream, there won't be anywhere to hide. Privacy will become a thing of the past. There is alot more at stake here with the Parking Garage dig than you can possibly even imagine.

This is what you missed out on while you were sleeping in ignore mode. When this case breaks, you won't have to worry about eating your words; you will be asleep in ignore mode as usual. Pleasant dreams!

[miles_draken]

He found three 'anamolies' as I understand it, there is no verification that he has found the three missing women. Somebody just please go out there and dig it up so this thing can be put to rest once and for all. If they are there, great! If not, then we can go on to the next interpretation.

[Valiant]

What if the pictures were missing because she hid the money behind them and it was easier to throw the pictures away than put them back in the frames? My grandparents did stuff like that, kept some cash around and hidden just in case the bank ever failed (they lived during the depression).

[Missouri Mule]

What if the pictures were missing because she hid the money behind them and it was easier to throw the pictures away than put them back in the frames? My grandparents did stuff like that, kept some cash around and hidden just in case the bank ever failed (they lived during the depression).Possible, but they also left $800 in Sherrill's purse. I think the prevailing theory was that the photos might have contained some photos of possible suspects (as best I can recall.)

[Missouri Mule]

He found three 'anamolies' as I understand it, there is no verification that he has found the three missing women. Somebody just please go out there and dig it up so this thing can be put to rest once and for all. If they are there, great! If not, then we can go on to the next interpretation.
I didn't see anything there either. I'm thinking this is all a parking lot stuff is a bunch of bunk but they ought to dig and let's get on to something having to do with facts. I'm tired of this stuff to the point of taking a vacation from it all. If the citizens of Springfield and the cops won't act and don't care, why should I care? This case is going into the Jimmy Hoffa and Judge Crater category. We know more about the true identity of Jack the Ripper than who abducted those women nearly 15 years ago.

[Valiant]

There's another idea I had about the money in the purse. The money could have been at least partially graduation money for the daughter. I know where I graduated HS, people mostly gave cash. The mother might have held it since the daughter was going to a party.

I still think the Mom had cash tips that might not have made it to the bank. Still this does not explain why the cash wasn't taken.

[Cambria]

That was what I thought one of the reasons for the money in Sherrill's purse might have been, for graduation. I also thought it may be for Branson. Suzie, Stacy and Janelle Kirby were supposed to go to the water park in Branson the next day. I think Sherrill was going too and they were going to stay there all day Sunday and possibly overnight at a motel Sunday night. Maybe Sherrill was treating and was going to pay for the entire day for all 3 girls.

[Missouri Mule]

There's another idea I had about the money in the purse. The money could have been at least partially graduation money for the daughter. I know where I graduated HS, people mostly gave cash. The mother might have held it since the daughter was going to a party.

I still think the Mom had cash tips that might not have made it to the bank. Still this does not explain why the cash wasn't taken.That's true enough. And you are almost certainly right about the tips that hadn't reached the bank. However, it still doesn't explain the motive unless the idea was to promote the idea that drugs (if robbery was the intent) had to be involved somehow to leave that much money behind. For a long time, almost 15 years in fact, I had believed that money was the motive for reasons I won't go into here. I even went to the bother of calculating the amount of money that Sherrill earned from the beauty salon and it would have been substantial. But the money left behind always posed a big problem with that theory. Then I happened to come into some knowledge that pointed me in a different direction.

The direction I now am convinced is correct is that the women were grabbed sometime after 4:30 AM. (when the van was first seen
that night.) The early "civic" twilight was at 5:22 AM. That left a mere 52 minutes to get inside the house, grab the women, move the cars, move the van into position, load the women, wipe down the house of evidence and leave town.

This is why the green van scenario doesn't make any sense. There were two reported sightings of the green van and that came much later and for no apparent reasons. Instead the van was almost certainly the dirty white "tea stained" van that absconded from the scene and which was seen surveilling the neighborhood for three weeks prior to the abductions. The moss green van was a diversion to send the investigation off in the wrong direction. There had to be two vans. And I would also argue that the "Suzie" seen in the green van was not the real Suzie Streeter. The question to be asked of the SPD was why they instead chose the moss green van version over a much more reliable dirty white/tea stained van version. I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions.

The critical question to be asked and answered is what the motive was. The only conceivable motive that stands the test of logic is that it was wrapped up in the upcoming trial and what would come out, most likely leading up to the trial in a plea agreement, that would lead to an uncovering of a major drug distribution operation. If it was not drugs, then there had to be something so important, so immediate, so critical that no chance could be taken that the testimony would be given prior to or during the trial. And I don't want anyone to mistake that I am referring to drug involvement by either Suzie or Sherrill. I'm not. And certainly Stacy, poor unfortunate and doomed Stacy, entering the time of her life where she would experience life to the fullest just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time that cost her life. It is literally a crying shame that this happened and shows the utter depravity of the brutal psychopaths who committed this crime.

Bottom line. It was almost certainly about a drug distribution network and there were two vans used. And it was a "contract" operation of sorts. If anyone wants to criticize that line of thinking I would be delighted to debate the issues.

[Ken]

Here is a critical point that nobody has brought up...how the house could have smelled that night.

We know from the newspaper articles that Sherrill was painting a dresser. What if she used an oil based paint or varnish? If she painted the dresser inside her house, how powerful of a paint or varnish smell would there have been?

Regarding the $758 dollars that was found in Sherrill's purse...

I believe that whomever did this never bothered to look in her purse.

In the front yard, the globe was broken but he light bulb was intact and working. What if a BB gun were used? It could break the globe while leaving the glowing light bulb intact.

During Sgt. Mike Owen's interview, he stated that the timeline for the parking garage doesn't work. This is completely false. If the parking garage were built before the women vanished, he would be correct. However, the parking garage was built after the women vanished. For example, it is possible that they were abducted and kept alive for 15 or so months and then were killed and were buried under the concrete. Under this scenario, the timeline works perfectly.

Next, the remains underneath the concrete don't have to be the 3MW. The remains could be Cynthia Britto, Wendy Camp, and Lisa Kregear. They disappeared on May 29th, 1992 from Chandler, Oklahoma just nine days before the 3MW. If this is true, then how does Sgt. Mike Owen's "timeline" take this into account?

Sgt. Mike Owen stated on camera that he didn't want to upset the McCall's...

What if Sgt. Mike Owen were to do the dig at the parking garage searching for Cynthia Britto, Wendy Camp, and Lisa Kregear? It is possible their remains are buried there. It would be a valid reason to dig. IF this were the "official reason" for the dig, how would this upset the McCall's?

Just my $0.02.

[Missouri Mule]

Here is a critical point that nobody has brought up...how the house could have smelled that night.

We know from the newspaper articles that Sherrill was painting a dresser. What if she used an oil based paint or varnish? If she painted the dresser inside her house, how powerful of a paint or varnish smell would there have been?

Regarding the $758 dollars that was found in Sherrill's purse...

I believe that whomever did this never bothered to look in her purse.

In the front yard, the globe was broken but he light bulb was intact and working. What if a BB gun were used? It could break the globe while leaving the glowing light bulb intact.

During Sgt. Mike Owen's interview, he stated that the timeline for the parking garage doesn't work. This is completely false. If the parking garage were built before the women vanished, he would be correct. However, the parking garage was built after the women vanished. For example, it is possible that they were abducted and kept alive for 15 or so months and then were killed and were buried under the concrete. Under this scenario, the timeline works perfectly.

Next, the remains underneath the concrete don't have to be the 3MW. The remains could be Cynthia Britto, Wendy Camp, and Lisa Kregear. They disappeared on May 29th, 1992 from Chandler, Oklahoma just nine days before the 3MW. If this is true, then how does Sgt. Mike Owen's "timeline" take this into account?

Sgt. Mike Owen stated on camera that he didn't want to upset the McCall's...

What if Sgt. Mike Owen were to do the dig at the parking garage searching for Cynthia Britto, Wendy Camp, and Lisa Kregear? It is possible their remains are buried there. It would be a valid reason to dig. IF this were the "official reason" for the dig, how would this upset the McCall's?

Just my $0.02.

I think that we can safely assume that Owen wasn't exactly being forthcoming.

I agree completely that whoever did this did not look in her purse. I had long held to the belief that might have been planted there to give a false impression of a different motive but new information that I subsequently learned disabused me of that view. This was a "contract" job carried out for the purposes of short circuiting the inquiries that would have been made into a large drug distribution network in Springfield. As I understand it Suzie's testimony was minor but what could have come out either through the grave robber's testimony or elsewhere in the trial was too great, too important, to critical to allow that possibility. Therefore Suzie and Sherrill were targeted and Stacy, poor, poor, sweet, innocent Stacy, with her whole life ahead of her happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's a crying shame that there isn't some decent person somewhere that will not come forth and reveal to the police who did this crime so justice can finally come to fruition. Why they would want to conceal the identities of the psychopaths who did this horrible crime surpasses all human understanding.

I don't know what bodies, if any, are in that parking lot garage but I do know this. If the original lead detective said that he had talked to no less than 11 psychics, one of whom told him to look for a "man behind a big desk with wing tipped shoes" ("48 Hours") then I don't understand why the SPD won't look under that concrete to put this to rest once and for all. It calls into question if anyone's palms are being greased to keep this investigation from moving forward. It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last time. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Follow the money!!

[Ken]

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident"
Arthur Schopenhauer - German Philosopher (1788-1860).

I believe the reason why the Springfield Police Department has refused to dig may have something to do with Professional Jealousy.

We assume when a breakthrough discovery is made that people will rejoice in a discovery that is for the betterment of mankind. Throughout history, this has never proven to be the case. Imagine a room filled with 500 groups of people trying to solve a puzzle. The first group that correctly solves the puzzle will be given worldwide fame and praise. All of the groups want to win the contest. They all want the glory that goes along with being the discoverer of the answer. When one group finally solves the puzzle and wins the prize, are the other groups ecstatic and happy that they failed? Are they happy that they will remain in obscurity while the lucky victors get all the glory?

No. The wonder if the victors cheated. They claim the solution to the puzzle is not correct at all. Human nature dictates that they will loath and despise the victors. This happens in all areas of research. I believe this is what is happening with the Springfield Police Department. It is like doing your bosses work and having your boss get all of the credit. There is nothing in it for them, so they stonewall and try to discredit a compelling GPR scan. Even with hospital permission, they still refuse to dig.

Albert Einstein once wrote: "Great spirits encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds."

I rest my case.

[Missouri Mule]

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident"
Arthur Schopenhauer - German Philosopher (1788-1860).

I believe the reason why the Springfield Police Department has refused to dig may have something to do with Professional Jealousy.

We assume when a breakthrough discovery is made that people will rejoice in a discovery that is for the betterment of mankind. Throughout history, this has never proven to be the case. Imagine a room filled with 500 groups of people trying to solve a puzzle. The first group that correctly solves the puzzle will be given worldwide fame and praise. All of the groups want to win the contest. They all want the glory that goes along with being the discoverer of the answer. When one group finally solves the puzzle and wins the prize, are the other groups ecstatic and happy that they failed? Are they happy that they will remain in obscurity while the lucky victors get all the glory?

No. The wonder if the victors cheated. They claim the solution to the puzzle is not correct at all. Human nature dictates that they will loath and despise the victors. This happens in all areas of research. I believe this is what is happening with the Springfield Police Department. It is like doing your bosses work and having your boss get all of the credit. There is nothing in it for them, so they stonewall and try to discredit a compelling GPR scan. Even with hospital permission, they still refuse to dig.

Albert Einstein once wrote: "Great spirits encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds."

I rest my case.

That is a plausible argument and it may be the reason. I tend to doubt it so much as the case has been botched from the beginning and as one person in LE in the Springfield area told me personally "the case is unsolvable." I don't agree with that myself. I believe had the right person been assigned the case from the beginning it would have been solved nearly 15 years ago.

If one bothers to view the "48 Hours" piece it is obvious enough to me that the case was not worked in a systematic way to eliminate possibilities and suspects. There is no logical reason under the sun why the van's color was deemed to be "moss green" in view of the many sightings of the "dirty white" van. One would have to believe it was painted in the three hour period after it was seen near the home and the time it was seen later when it mysteriously turned to a different color.

We know from known facts that leads were not followed up. We know from known facts that they are still not being followed up. We know from known facts that the best investigator who was ever assigned this case voluntarily asked to be relieved of the case because it was so badly botched. The truth is that we know a lot of things about this case and one of the things we know is that the police department was largely dysfunctional in 1992 and may be to the present time.

If one doubts this, anyone who believes they have information and gives it to the SPD seriously thinking it will be given consideration, well let me say I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to talk to you about.

Frankly, I don't even believe the case is being worked. And the tragedy is (over and above the crime itself) is that principles involved are bound to die off and the case will go into the legends of unsolved cold cases, like the Jimmy Hoffa and Judge Crater cases. The truth is that we know more about who Jack the Ripper was than what went on in this case beyond the fact it was grossly mishandled. Am I alone in this assessment? Hardly. Even the former Chief of Police said that much during the investigation.

We have today an epidemic of such crimes. Criminals know that if they murder and conceal the bodies there is a greatly reduced chance of being caught and convicted. Legally, it is not necessary to produce a body but the cases are not truly treated as a homicide without a dead body. If the police department would capitulate and actually attempt to locate the bodies in the parking lot garage and if the bodies were actually found, they would have to move this into the official homicide category and they are evidently loathe to do that. So the case remains a "missing person" case and some will argue about slavery rings and other far out craziness including a former high police official who declared the women were taken by "extra terresterials."

The case may eventually be solved but most of us will probably be dead and buried ourselves when and if that happens. And just as likely the perpetrators will be dead and buried as well. All that is likely to happen is that at some point, if it is solved, the case will be said to be "cleared." That's probably the best we can hope for.

[Cambria]

Bumping up case. Today is the 15th anniversary of their disappearance. The Springfield News-Leader put all their past stories on the front page for review, but as far as I can tell, there is nothing new to report.

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

[Missouri Mule]

Bumping up case. Today is the 15th anniversary of their disappearance. The Springfield News-Leader put all their past stories on the front page for review, but as far as I can tell, there is nothing new to report.

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

I was just reading that myself. You're right. There is nothing new in the report. Whether or not there is something that OUGHT to be reported is a horse of an entirely different color. I know from personal knowledge that there is information that has NOT been followed up by the SPD. That information has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the parking lot controversey. The SPD and Prosecuting Attorney, are in my view, just stonewalling the case. Make of that what you will.

[Cambria]

I was just reading that myself. You're right. There is nothing new in the report. Whether or not there is something that OUGHT to be reported is a horse of an entirely different color. I know from personal knowledge that there is information that has NOT been followed up by the SPD. That information has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the parking lot controversey. The SPD and Prosecuting Attorney, are in my view, just stonewalling the case. Make of that what you will.

That just makes no sense, to disregard any possible leads in this case. Any new information given should be followed up on, EVERY tip investigated, leave no stone unturned.

Even the parking garage dig, I don't put a lot of stock in psychics either but it still should be checked out.

I don't think there is any mass conspiracy going on in this case, but the fact that the Springfield PD could not be following up on leads makes it sound like there is some sort of coverup going on.

[Missouri Mule]

That just makes no sense, to disregard any possible leads in this case. Any new information given should be followed up on, EVERY tip investigated, leave no stone unturned.

Even the parking garage dig, I don't put a lot of stock in psychics either but it still should be checked out.

I don't think there is any mass conspiracy going on in this case, but the fact that the Springfield PD could not be following up on leads makes it sound like there is some sort of coverup going on.

I've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours looking at this case. That may sound like a stretch but it's not. As I understand the case, there are three scenarios that come to mind. Two easily dovetail with the available information. The third scenario is much more sinister in that it would require a police coverup but it can't be ruled out of hand as implausible. Without going into detail, there is another famous murder case that remains unsolved that might be compared to understand the case. When I first heard this theory put forth I thought it was as far fetched as the idea of aliens from Mars. I'm no longer sure.

The actions of the SPD can best be summed up by their very best investigator (now retired) who ever worked this case when he said this case was worked like no other case he had ever seen worked. I think that speaks volumes.

There is no reason under the sun why the coring of the slab should not be done to put this issue aside. None, except inexplicable stubborness by the SPD and prosecutor. The que