POI - Dale Golder

[christine2448]

Named POI in affidavit from 9/25.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/l_5c20e6aea92aa6e614b88e581dfd8a28.jpg

Discuss this fellow here :furious:

[not_my_kids]

Wow, he has a bad case of the "dead eyes", if you catch what I mean. There just isn't anything there.

And I would like to add something: The caption ROLLING on the pic that is shown above. Save us some sleuthing, Rolling refers to an Ecstasy high, as well as about a million other things. But he has the look of someone not quite sober. MOO. From experience, but still MOO.
I'm not linking his Myspace, only because of the name he has given himself. I am not sure how much of it would show up in the post.
Not to mention for some reason, my copy button is busted. So someone else gets to do that.

[Kimster]

I'd like to know if we can verify that he was working at the camp when Lindsey went missing.

ETA: I ask this because there is chit chat that he was either at home sleeping at the time or that he really was working and the employer got the days mixed up.

[scandi]

I'd like to know if we can verify that he was working at the camp when Lindsey went missing.


Hi Kimster, The only way I could think of to find out would be to call the camp, LOL, and I am sure they would not answer the question as it is an open investigation.

I don't think an officer would lie about what he stated under oath in the affidavit and have to believe what he wrote has to be the case. I wonder if the Director of the camp had given him a written notice of suspension, as that procedure could maybe be verified by looking up their rules online. I really don't know about that.

[momtective]

Do we know the name of the camp...should we start a thread on "The Camp"?

Kimster, the affidavit states he was not at the camp, a witness states he was not at work at Beehive and a witness places him near Beehive at appx 10:00pm on the 26th.

[Kimster]

Probably not since employee records are highly confidential. I didn't think we could find out unless another employee saw him there and provided a witness to that fact. Just wanted to throw that out there to think about.

BTW, as far as I'm concerned, this POI is hinky. MOO

[Kimster]

TY Momtective! I do know what the warrant says cuz I carefully read your notes :-) Just wanted to briefly bring up the chit chat. It is pure rumor and prolly shouldn't be discussed further...just keep your eyes open in case it comes up later.

[momtective]

Dale's myspace http://www.myspace.com/fu**youalldaylonghoe (please replace the ** with the appropriate letters c & k before entering browser addy.

[momtective]

From Affidavit: While looking into Golder’s background it was discovered that in 2000 he was a suspect in the attempted rape of a child. The case was located under McCleary Police department case number 00MC0014. Golder was 14 years old at the time of the incident. It was determined that the victim of the assault was named ____________, she was 12 years old at the time. No reports of this incident appear to exist except a computer entry.
Investigators attempted to locate ____________. They first located her mother. Initially the mothe rsaid nothing like this ever happened involving her daughter. She was pressed and given details and she stated she didn’t believe anything had happened to her daughter. She said that when the police arrived to speak to her daughter her daughter told police nothing had happened.

Investigators then contacted_______________. She stated that in 2000 she and her two brothers were being babysat by Golder. She said her mother was good friends with Tena Golder. She said that while Golder watched pornographic videos and had her, her brothers and Dales younger brother watch the videos. He asked her to have sex with him and she refused. One day he took her to his room and barricaded the door with a large dresser. He removed her pants and the removed his pants and tried to have sexual intercourse with her. She said that she cried and struggled and after two hours he released her. She said she told friends about what happened whom she believed told school officials at Elma school district. It was reported to the police. Her mother found out about the incident. _______said her mother told her it would be her word against his and discouraged her from telling the police the truth. When the police officer spoke to her she said she told him nothing happened.

[Salem]

Kimster - I hear your concern about the verification and it is possible the boss from the camp got the dates wrong - here is why I think she didn't - she had been hurt in an accident. That kind of thing stays with you, kwim? She was off work for what appeared to be more than 2 weeks. DG was not allowed to come back to work until she went back to work. Even if she did not give him a written suspension, she would be able to review her own work record to verify when she returned to work.

Does that help or make you feel any better? We have to remember the other site seems to be all about defending this dude so they will be looking for loopholes. That's not a bad thing because it helps us do a better job of reviewing facts and information.

Salem

[not_my_kids]

Thanks Momtective.
I was trying to figure out how to avoid posting the whole name he set up for himself.

I do have all pictures copied and everything else saved to Word.

[Salem]

Who is DG's younger brother? I thought he was the youngest child?

Any ideas?

Salem

[Salem]

Thanks Momtective.
I was trying to figure out how to avoid posting the whole name he set up for himself.

I do have all pictures copied and everything else saved to Word.

Hey not_my_kids - welcome back. I avoid DG's MS name by going to the girlfriend's page and then clicking on DG's. I hate spelling out that word :innocent: (doesn't mean I don't say it frequently, I just don't like putting it in writing :))

Salem

[momtective]

From Affidavit: When the records were analyzed it was learned that Golder was texting and calling a number in eastern Washington repeatedly from about noon on 06-26-09 until 9:26pm. There was in excess of 50 contacts to this number that suddenly stopped at 9:26pm. ___________received a cellular call from a subject identified as ___________at 1:11am (06-27-09) that had a duration of 2 minutes. After that he did not make a call until 6:12am. This is contrary to the pattern of cell phone usage shown _______. He normally has frequent cell phone activity until at least midnight to 1:00am each day.


In these calls to/from Calica on June 26th specifically at 9:26pm and June 27th at 1:11am...I'd really like to know what the conversation was, what Golder's demeanor was, what he was doing and where he was at at the time of these calls. Pings should show the general area where he was. I believe this almost 3.5 time frame will be critical in the investigation and in locating Lindsey's remains.

[Recovering-Lurker]

This guy is a creep-ola!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scandi]

From Affidavit: When the records were analyzed it was learned that Golder was texting and calling a number in eastern Washington repeatedly from about noon on 06-26-09 until 9:26pm. There was in excess of 50 contacts to this number that suddenly stopped at 9:26pm. ___________received a cellular call from a subject identified as ___________at 1:11am (06-27-09) that had a duration of 2 minutes. After that he did not make a call until 6:12am. This is contrary to the pattern of cell phone usage shown _______. He normally has frequent cell phone activity until at least midnight to 1:00am each day.


In these calls to/from Calica on June 26th specifically at 9:26pm and June 27th at 1:11am...I'd really like to know what the conversation was, what Golder's demeanor was, what he was doing and where he was at at the time of these calls. Pings should show the general area where he was. I believe this almost 3.5 time frame will be critical in the investigation and in locating Lindsey's remains.

Hi Momtective, Do you read that as she called him at 1:11 am like I do? It is just the way the affidavit reads.


ETA: Is that 1:11 time when you think he was disposing of the body?

[Novice Seeker]

Wow, he has a bad case of the "dead eyes", if you catch what I mean. There just isn't anything there.

And I would like to add something: The caption ROLLING on the pic that is shown above. Save us some sleuthing, Rolling refers to an Ecstasy high, as well as about a million other things. But he has the look of someone not quite sober. MOO. From experience, but still MOO.
I'm not linking his Myspace, only because of the name he has given himself. I am not sure how much of it would show up in the post.
Not to mention for some reason, my copy button is busted. So someone else gets to do that.

Not fair with teasing us.

Novice Seeker

[christine2448]

Check it out peeps....u need to think thru before u post. The POI is Dale...not his mom, not others he knows...please refrain from naming them, it's not fair. Do not post their personal info, names, mie (again, for the hundreth time, me kee is broke, the one before z) no mie spaces. People can sleuth it and see for themselves.

What if ure cousin did something like this...next thing u know u're life is upside down cause u happen to be his friend on facebook.

We need to be fair.

If someone isn't mentioned in MAINSTREAM media..do not post their info. U will get timed out for this after this warning.

[momtective]

Hi Momtective, Do you read that as she called him at 1:11 am like I do? It is just the way the affidavit reads.

Yes, she called him.

[Novice Seeker]

From Affidavit: When the records were analyzed it was learned that Golder was texting and calling a number in eastern Washington repeatedly from about noon on 06-26-09 until 9:26pm. There was in excess of 50 contacts to this number that suddenly stopped at 9:26pm. ___________received a cellular call from a subject identified as ___________at 1:11am (06-27-09) that had a duration of 2 minutes. After that he did not make a call until 6:12am. This is contrary to the pattern of cell phone usage shown _______. He normally has frequent cell phone activity until at least midnight to 1:00am each day.


In these calls to/from Calica on June 26th specifically at 9:26pm and June 27th at 1:11am...I'd really like to know what the conversation was, what Golder's demeanor was, what he was doing and where he was at at the time of these calls. Pings should show the general area where he was. I believe this almost 3.5 time frame will be critical in the investigation and in locating Lindsey's remains.

Back to the time frame. What time did he clock out from work that night?

Novice Seeker

[momtective]

Check it out peeps....u need to think thru before u post. The POI is Dale...not his mom, not others he knows...please refrain from naming them, it's not fair. Do not post their personal info, names, mie (again, for the hundreth time, me kee is broke, the one before z) no mie spaces. People can sleuth it and see for themselves.

What if ure cousin did something like this...next thing u know u're life is upside down cause u happen to be his friend on facebook.

We need to be fair.

If someone isn't mentioned in MAINSTREAM media..do not post their info. U will get timed out for this after this warning.

Okay, sorry :slaps own hand:
If you want to know who, who is look at Dale's myspace page...they are all there.

[momtective]

Back to the time frame. What time did he clock out from work that night?

Novice Seeker

As far as we know, he wasn't at work that night.

[lizzysf]

From Affidavit: When the records were analyzed it was learned that Golder was texting and calling a number in eastern Washington repeatedly from about noon on 06-26-09 until 9:26pm. There was in excess of 50 contacts to this number that suddenly stopped at 9:26pm. ___________received a cellular call from a subject identified as ___________at 1:11am (06-27-09) that had a duration of 2 minutes. After that he did not make a call until 6:12am. This is contrary to the pattern of cell phone usage shown _______. He normally has frequent cell phone activity until at least midnight to 1:00am each day.


In these calls to/from Calica on June 26th specifically at 9:26pm and June 27th at 1:11am...I'd really like to know what the conversation was, what Golder's demeanor was, what he was doing and where he was at at the time of these calls. Pings should show the general area where he was. I believe this almost 3.5 time frame will be critical in the investigation and in locating Lindsey's remains.I think cell pings may be difficult in this very rural area, especially if he was in the deep woods...??

[momtective]

I think cell pings may be difficult in this very rural area, especially if he was in the deep woods...??

I'm thinking if the phone rang...it pinged. I so hope LE is checking the pings and pinpointing exactly where he was during this time.

[lizzysf]

I'm thinking if the phone rang...it pinged. I so hope LE is checking the pings and pinpointing exactly where he was during this time.i hope so. And now that they have the home computers they can verify the Myspace activity...Alice Walters. I just know in my gut that is him!

[Jules71]

I believe what it says in the affidavit that he was NOT working on the night Lindsey went missing. He says he attended a BBQ at a neighbors and left at 9 pm and went home and passed out. But we do know he had been texting SC from noon until 9:26 that night. One thought I had was that maybe he was trying to get a hold of SC all day and that set him off - made him angry and then when he saw LB he struck at the opportunity. SC then returned his calls at 1:11 am and he was in no mood to talk (2 min call). Who did he then call at 6 am? Why would he call someone at 6 am? Feeling anxious, guilty???

Also, someone thinks they spotted his car near there at 10 pm.

[TravelingBug]

I hope that LE is aware of the post on that April 20th post on Calica's myspace that discussed the name change thing.

Because if they hadn't seen that or noted that, they wouldn't see the possible correlation between the friend on LB's Twilight myspace with the same last night and know to delve into it as it may be relevant.

Hopefully LE is reading the threads and will see that possible connection if they weren't already aware of the possible other last name. LOL

[TravelingBug]

This is interesting...it seems the local paper is referencing the poster on the other site that has taken up for the family.

<snip>

A person identifying him or herself as a friend of the man’s family in an online forum said the family has always cooperated with investigators and has actively tried to help with the search for Lindsey.

“Someone has found someone to blame,” the poster wrote. “This is ridiculous.”

The poster said the family has been upset by the allegations and has had people trespassing on the property since the searches were launched.

“This is all utter nonsense,” the poster wrote.

Lindsey Baum is 4-foot-9 with brown eyes and brown hair. She was wearing a blue shirt and jeans when she disappeared.


http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2009/10/03/local_news/doc4ac708ecc05e8423735653.txt

[eyes4crime]

On Friday, 6-26 (the day Lindsey disappeared)

Noon until 9:26P (9HOURS 26 min.) ~ 6 calls/hour
50 calls were made by Dale Golder to X

ALMOST 4 HOURS OF NO CALLS then:
1:11a - 2 minute phone call

6:27a - usual phone activity resumed (what was his usual activity?)

Guess I'm wondering if his usual activity is about 6 calls/hour? Or was 6 calls an hour a cover up. Or if there was going to be a sexual assault, were the calls out of guilt. We have seen that in the past with other rapists.

Dale seems to use what's around him (environment) as kernels for his lies, he deflects blame using his surroundings so they make sense to others - I think he's been doing this a long time. My guess is that people have learned to go along with his somewhat bizzare chat and don't question him. The drug use would also give him an out in terms of making sense. I think that for years his behavior has been excused for one reason or another. jmo

[eyes4crime]

I believe what it says in the affidavit that he was NOT working on the night Lindsey went missing. He says he attended a BBQ at a neighbors and left at 9 pm and went home and passed out. But we do know he had been texting SC from noon until 9:26 that night. One thought I had was that maybe he was trying to get a hold of SC all day and that set him off - made him angry and then when he saw LB he struck at the opportunity. SC then returned his calls at 1:11 am and he was in no mood to talk (2 min call). Who did he then call at 6 am? Why would he call someone at 6 am? Feeling anxious, guilty???

Also, someone thinks they spotted his car near there at 10 pm.

Hi Jules71 - Seems that he was at a BBQ, at work at the camp in Olympia, working at the Bee Hive - - I can't imagine anyone in McCleary not knowing where they were the night Lindsey disappeared. I can't imagine anyone not taking the time to answer LE questions seriously and accurately. Fist he was sleeping, then he had nothing to say because he wasn't working that night...did he really think LE would not be suspicious with those answers?


If he is innocent - he has gone out of his way to look guilty. One doesn't just 'flip' off LE and the FBI in the middle of a high-profile investigation.

[LLLindsayy]

Someone has recently left a comment on POI's MS...

"TO ALL YOU NOSY PEOPLE, I AM VERY PISSED OFF RIGHT KNOW!! I AM T.T. THAT YOU HAVE LISTED IN YOUR FORUM......AS FOR MY SON BEING IN THE MILITARY HE LEFT THE 1ST OF JAN., NOT SHORTLY AFTER LINDSEY DISSAPEARED!! WHEN LINDSEY DISAPPEARED HE WAS 2 MILES OUT OF MOSUL, IRAQ SO YOU NEED TO GET YOUR DAMN STORY STRAIGHT!! AS FOR A.G. HE WAS TO LEAVE IN JULY AND HE DIDN'T LEAVE DUE TO NOT MAKING WEIGHT!! SO LETS GET BACK TO THE RIGHT TRACK!! IT'S LINDSEY WE ARE LOOKING FOR!! "



What's the deal?

[Jules71]

I don't know!! And who is she? TT? Is she TG? The Mom?

[LLLindsayy]

I don't know!! And who is she? TT? Is she TG? The Mom?


I don't know. Since I posted that I noticed same person left same comment on POI's #1 MS friend's page as well.

[~greeneyedgirl~]

I think she is the other mom of the boy who went into the army with DG's brother AG.

[scandi]

Yes, she called him.

Hi Momtective, I wonder if LE has the thought Lindsey was alive for a couple of hours after she was taken and was taken to a place similar to, and things done to her in a similar way as to the girl DG tried to rape back in 2000?

At first I thought it was odd LE included the 1:11 call made TO him in the early morning of the 27th, but as you are thinking, it could well tie into placing him wherever she was disposed of - if that is the case. IMO

ETA: Maybe that was his Modus Operandi in accosting younger girls, and the trauma of it excited him as well as it being sexual.

[momtective]

The family member/friend or whatever that posts on the forums, WS & the other one, has got to know we (WS) will pick this thing (crime/POI) to the bone! WS has some of the most brilliant, dedicated, minds in all of cyberspace. I feel for his family, I truly do. I mean no one sets out to raise a criminally minded human being. But if Golder is responsible for Lindsey's disappearance I know we (WS'ers) will sleuth him to the very pit of hell and back again to get to the truth. We will be as delicate as possible for the family's sake but the truth hurts and that my friends is what we are about, getting to the truth in order to bring peace and closure to Lindsey's family. For those innocents caught in the crossfire, I apologize in advance but I personally and I believe WS collectively wants to find the truth and most of all we want to find Lindsey. She is by far the most innocent of all.

[Jules71]

I think she is the other mom of the boy who went into the army with DG's brother AG.

Ok, that would make more sense then that TG and her are not the same person.

[momtective]

And on her myspace, she is friends with the girlfriend (SC).

So is it ok to say this:


are all the same person?

no it's not...no they are not. Please remove your post so we don't get in trouble.

[Jules71]

no it's not...no they are not. Please remove your post so we don't get in trouble.

done - thanks

[momtective]

Hi Momtective, I wonder if LE has the thought Lindsey was alive for a couple of hours after she was taken and was taken to a place similar to, and things done to her in a similar way as to the girl DG tried to rape back in 2000?

At first I thought it was odd LE included the 1:11 call made TO him in the early morning of the 27th, but as you are thinking, it could well tie into placing him wherever she was disposed of - if that is the case. IMO

ETA: Maybe that was his Modus Operandi in accosting younger girls, and the trauma of it excited him as well as it being sexual.

There is a camp at Black Lake (I believe it's Black Lake) near Olympia. I'm wondering if that is the camp he worked at and also if Lindsey's body might be recovered in or near that lake.

[momtective]

Check it out peeps....u need to think thru before u post. The POI is Dale...not his mom, not others he knows...please refrain from naming them, it's not fair. Do not post their personal info, names, mie (again, for the hundreth time, me kee is broke, the one before z) no mie spaces. People can sleuth it and see for themselves.

What if ure cousin did something like this...next thing u know u're life is upside down cause u happen to be his friend on facebook.

We need to be fair.

If someone isn't mentioned in MAINSTREAM media..do not post their info. U will get timed out for this after this warning.

Just thinking now would be a nice time to bump this post. I slapped my own hands earlier for posting what I knew I shouldn't have posted. I like so many of you have seen some really wonderful, hard work go straight out the window because the tread was so beyond repair, it was pulled. Don't want that to happen here.

[AmandaReckonwith]

This is interesting...it seems the local paper is referencing the poster on the other site that has taken up for the family.

<snip>

A person identifying him or herself as a friend of the man’s family in an online forum said the family has always cooperated with investigators and has actively tried to help with the search for Lindsey.

“Someone has found someone to blame,” the poster wrote. “This is ridiculous.”

The poster said the family has been upset by the allegations and has had people trespassing on the property since the searches were launched.

“This is all utter nonsense,” the poster wrote.

Lindsey Baum is 4-foot-9 with brown eyes and brown hair. She was wearing a blue shirt and jeans when she disappeared.


http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2009/10/03/local_news/doc4ac708ecc05e8423735653.txt


Well, let her spin it, it is much too late. That poster brought all the crime boards straight into the info we needed all along.

The part of that article that is most useful:

When contacted by investigators, the man reported he had been at a second job in Olympia on the night of the disappearance, according to the warrant. The man’s supervisor at that job told investigators the man was suspended during that time and could not have been working.


eta: WHY was he suspended? It is a youth camp, no?
For what reason was he suspended from a youth camp???

[AmandaReckonwith]

The family member/friend or whatever that posts on the forums, WS & the other one, has got to know we (WS) will pick this thing (crime/POI) to the bone! WS has some of the most brilliant, dedicated, minds in all of cyberspace. I feel for his family, I truly do. I mean no one sets out to raise a criminally minded human being. But if Golder is responsible for Lindsey's disappearance I know we (WS'ers) will sleuth him to the very pit of hell and back again to get to the truth. We will be as delicate as possible for the family's sake but the truth hurts and that my friends is what we are about, getting to the truth in order to bring peace and closure to Lindsey's family. For those innocents caught in the crossfire, I apologize in advance but I personally and I believe WS collectively wants to find the truth and most of all we want to find Lindsey. She is by far the most innocent of all.

What a great way to say it, thanks!
Because the Mom is a fellow poster, she no doubt understands this, although it is going to be very hard on her when she reads it.

[eyes4crime]

Hi Momtective, I wonder if LE has the thought Lindsey was alive for a couple of hours after she was taken and was taken to a place similar to, and things done to her in a similar way as to the girl DG tried to rape back in 2000?

At first I thought it was odd LE included the 1:11 call made TO him in the early morning of the 27th, but as you are thinking, it could well tie into placing him wherever she was disposed of - if that is the case. IMO

ETA: Maybe that was his Modus Operandi in accosting younger girls, and the trauma of it excited him as well as it being sexual.

Hi scandi: That could be exactly right - his mo might have become more refined, and then dropped back to being sloppy. I'm sure LE wants to figure that out...perhaps by making Dale public, LE thought others might come forward bringing accusations of the last 9 years or so. I'm pretty sure that if he groomed, barricaded, and tried raping at the age of 14, he didn't lay low and do nothing for the next 9 years. just a thought.

[eyes4crime]

Well, let her spin it, it is much too late. That poster brought all the crime boards straight into the info we needed all along.

The part of that article that is most useful:

When contacted by investigators, the man reported he had been at a second job in Olympia on the night of the disappearance, according to the warrant. The man’s supervisor at that job told investigators the man was suspended during that time and could not have been working.


eta: WHY was he suspended? It is a youth camp, no?
For what reason was he suspended from a youth camp???


Hi Amanda - Your photo album is awsome, thanks so much for doing all that work for us sleuthers.

Regarding your question: Some would say - oh the poor guy, he had two jobs and was just exhausted, how could anyone be perfect at work when so overwhelmed...his brother recently left and such changes in life will make one weary. The same excuse for his failure to remember what he did that Friday night - BBQ, Beehive, youth camp??? I say - this is a high profile case and nobody should flip off LE or the FBI and if they do - this is what happens, guilty or innocent, he brought this on himself - I don't give him any excuses!!! :furious: mho

[milliac]

There is a camp at Black Lake (I believe it's Black Lake) near Olympia. I'm wondering if that is the camp he worked at and also if Lindsey's body might be recovered in or near that lake.

Wow...my daughter was just there last weekend on a youth group retreat. I'll have to ask her more about it. The director said he was off for two weeks. Did they work things out and he still works there?

[Jules71]

Well, let her spin it, it is much too late. That poster brought all the crime boards straight into the info we needed all along.

The part of that article that is most useful:

When contacted by investigators, the man reported he had been at a second job in Olympia on the night of the disappearance, according to the warrant. The man’s supervisor at that job told investigators the man was suspended during that time and could not have been working.


eta: WHY was he suspended? It is a youth camp, no?
For what reason was he suspended from a youth camp???


The affidavit says he was suspended from working there for misbehavior.

[momtective]

Wow...my daughter was just there last weekend on a youth group retreat. I'll have to ask her more about it. The director said he was off for two weeks. Did they work things out and he still works there?

From Affidavit: The investigator contacted _____Supervisor at the youth camp. She stated that Golder was not working on the night of June 26, 2009. When asked if she was certain, she said she was because she had suspended Golder for two weeks prior to June 26, 2009 for misbehavior. She said she had been involved in a traffic collision and could not walk. She said while she was recuperating at home other employees in the camp kitchen telephoned her and complained that Golder was not doing his work and was being disruptive. She said she telephoned him and told him to go home for two weeks until she could return. She said she told him he needed to take that time to think about whatever he really wanted to work at the camp or not. She stated that she had sent Golder home for a shift at a time without pay in the past for misbehavior. Golder later confirmed that he had been suspended from June 7, 2008 through June 27, 2009. He returned to working at the camp on June 28, 2009.

[momtective]

Why am I thinking he worked in the kitchen at the camp? I saw that somewhere...I think. :crazy:
:doh: it's right there in the post I just made from the affidavit.

[milliac]

Well she said it was mostly just youth group people, but there were employees that cleaned up and cooked food. Her cell phone has no battery, but she said she took video of the camp grounds and some pics too. I showed her POI pic from page 1 but he didn't look familiar.

[momtective]

Well she said it was mostly just youth group people, but there were employees that cleaned up and cooked food. Her cell phone has no battery, but she said she took video of the camp grounds and some pics too. I showed her POI pic from page 1 but he didn't look familiar.

What's the name of the camp milliac?

[milliac]

Www.blacklakebiblecamp.com

[momtective]

Www.blacklakebiblecamp.com

The first week of camp this year was June 21-27 :woohoo: that's the week Golder was suspended! No little kids hurt that week if this is the correct camp.

Second week of camp June 28-30 (Primary Camp)

[TakeNote]

From Affidavit: When the records were analyzed it was learned that Golder was texting and calling a number in eastern Washington repeatedly from about noon on 06-26-09 until 9:26pm. There was in excess of 50 contacts to this number that suddenly stopped at 9:26pm. ___________received a cellular call from a subject identified as ___________at 1:11am (06-27-09) that had a duration of 2 minutes. After that he did not make a call until 6:12am. This is contrary to the pattern of cell phone usage shown _______. He normally has frequent cell phone activity until at least midnight to 1:00am each day.


In these calls to/from Calica on June 26th specifically at 9:26pm and June 27th at 1:11am...I'd really like to know what the conversation was, what Golder's demeanor was, what he was doing and where he was at at the time of these calls. Pings should show the general area where he was. I believe this almost 3.5 time frame will be critical in the investigation and in locating Lindsey's remains.

i agree.....i was thinking the same thing when i read it on the WS info

fingers crossed that LE have or is doing it now!!!! then i want the to call TESS and get going on it!!!

[TakeNote]

Hi Momtective, Do you read that as she called him at 1:11 am like I do? It is just the way the affidavit reads.


ETA: Is that 1:11 time when you think he was disposing of the body?

i want to know what that 2 min call was all about....and why the didnt talk longer then that?????

i read it as he got a call from girl friend!!

and if you guys are already talking about this....sorry....im trying to catch up :)

[lizzysf]

i want to know what that 2 min call was all about....and why the didnt talk longer then that?????

i read it as he got a call from girl friend!!

and if you guys are already talking about this....sorry....im trying to catch up :)

Maybe no answer and she left a VM

[TakeNote]

I think cell pings may be difficult in this very rural area, especially if he was in the deep woods...??


there might be a larger area of tower space's but....if he was another part of the state....like another city or county....they would at least be able to go from there :)

[lizzysf]

there might be a larger area of tower space's but....if he was another part of the state....like another city or county....they would at least be able to go from there :)Let's hope so!
Check you PM's.

[SuziQ]

So about this person who has taken up for the POI and his family....I haven't seen a response from them addressing the alleged SA reported against the POI years ago. And I haven't seen, as of last night, anyone asking about it. It's like the big white elephant in the room everyone is ignoring over there. Or are those questions too sensitive and being deleted?

ETA: I'm very curious as to whether an "excuse" has been offered up for that like the other "excuses" offered so far?

[lizzysf]

So about this person who has taken up for the POI and his family....I haven't seen a response from them addressing the alleged SA reported against the POI years ago. And I haven't seen, as of last night, anyone asking about it. It's like the big white elephant in the room everyone is ignoring over there. Or are those questions too sensitive and being deleted?

ETA: I'm very curious as to whether an "excuse" has been offered up for that like the other "excuses" offered so far?
I read where this spokesperson states it was a lie...that the girls mother even said it was untrue.. Hmmmm..... (yet the daughter tells LE is was true..)

[Salem]

There is a camp at Black Lake (I believe it's Black Lake) near Olympia. I'm wondering if that is the camp he worked at and also if Lindsey's body might be recovered in or near that lake.

Aye momtective - this is a very good thought. It makes so much sense that DG might head to the camp where he worked or very close by. He would be familiar with the area, would know of an out of the way, quiet spot.

We need to know what camp he worked at, whether it is this one or another. We need to know which one.

Salem

[TakeNote]

From Affidavit: The investigator contacted _____Supervisor at the youth camp. She stated that Golder was not working on the night of June 26, 2009. When asked if she was certain, she said she was because she had suspended Golder for two weeks prior to June 26, 2009 for misbehavior. She said she had been involved in a traffic collision and could not walk. She said while she was recuperating at home other employees in the camp kitchen telephoned her and complained that Golder was not doing his work and was being disruptive. She said she telephoned him and told him to go home for two weeks until she could return. She said she told him he needed to take that time to think about whatever he really wanted to work at the camp or not. She stated that she had sent Golder home for a shift at a time without pay in the past for misbehavior. Golder later confirmed that he had been suspended from June 7, 2008 through June 27, 2009. He returned to working at the camp on June 28, 2009.


i wonder if that was *odd* for him to be acting like he was...so to get suspended for two weeks to think about it......since it was right before lindsey went missing.....what was he doing that was goofing off?

im really worried about that camp!! it bothered me all night...i could not sleep!

i also want to know what his misbehavior is?

[TakeNote]

I read where this spokesperson states it was a lie...that the girls mother even said it was untrue.. Hmmmm..... (yet the daughter tells LE is was true..)

the two mothers are friends

[Salem]

Www.blacklakebiblecamp.com (http://Www.blacklakebiblecamp.com)

I'm looking at the website but I'm not seeing where they explain what they do during the "camp." Some camping is overnight and some is day use.

I assume the kids do activities and learn to swim or something?

Thanks,

Salem

[Salem]

i wonder if that was *odd* for him to be acting like he was...so to get suspended for two weeks to think about it......since it was right before lindsey went missing.....what was he doing that was goofing off?

im really worried about that camp!! it bothered me all night...i could not sleep!

i also want to know what his misbehavior is?

I don't think it was all that unusual for him to be misbehaving. The supervisor, in the affidavit, said she had given him one-shift, unpaid, suspension(s) before for his bad behavior. I think the supervisor was the only one that could really get him to behave?

Salem

[momtective]

I don't think it was all that unusual for him to be misbehaving. The supervisor, in the affidavit, said she had given him one-shift, unpaid, suspension(s) before for his bad behavior. I think the supervisor was the only one that could really get him to behave?

Salem

Considering that statement, I'm now thinking the camp must be a year round camp. The "before" part would suggest in the past and I'm sure the supv. wasn't talking about last years camp season. Remember the first week of camp at Black Lake was the week he was suspended...so there would really be a "before" there, right?
I did find one year round camp in the area but it is located the other side of Olympia. I go find the name of it.

[Salem]

I think you are right momtective. I have to go for awhile. I'll be back later.

Another thing to think about: Last phone call was 9:26 p.m. then nothing until 1:11 a.m. My thought is that he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m. and again at 1:11 a.m. That means he had about 3.75 hours to travel in. Cut that in half and you get 1 hour and 22 minutes. Draw a circle around McCleary that shows how far you can travel in 1 hour and 22 minutes and we might be able to pick up some good search locations.

It would be nice to know where the phone pinged. It would sure help!

Salem

I'll be back soon!

Hubby's taking me to dinner :) yum!

Salem

[lizzysf]

I think you are right momtective. I have to go for awhile. I'll be back later.

Another thing to think about: Last phone call was 9:26 p.m. then nothing until 1:11 a.m. My thought is that he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m. and again at 1:11 a.m. That means he had about 3.75 hours to travel in. Cut that in half and you get 1 hour and 22 minutes. Draw a circle around McCleary that shows how far you can travel in 1 hour and 22 minutes and we might be able to pick up some good search locations.

It would be nice to know where the phone pinged. It would sure help!

Salem

I'll be back soon!

Hubby's taking me to dinner :) yum!

Salem
Great thinking Salem.. you are right on the money... Now...PING info please...

[momtective]

I think you are right momtective. I have to go for awhile. I'll be back later.

Another thing to think about: Last phone call was 9:26 p.m. then nothing until 1:11 a.m. My thought is that he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m. and again at 1:11 a.m. That means he had about 3.75 hours to travel in. Cut that in half and you get 1 hour and 22 minutes. Draw a circle around McCleary that shows how far you can travel in 1 hour and 22 minutes and we might be able to pick up some good search locations.

It would be nice to know where the phone pinged. It would sure help!

Salem

I'll be back soon!

Hubby's taking me to dinner :) yum!

Salem


http://www.touchpointsministry.org/Resources/Facilities/tabid/70/Default.aspx#blacklakebible
Black Lake Bible Camp & Conference Center
Location: Olympia, halfway between Seattle and Portland
Mailing Address: 6521 Fairview Rd. SW, Olympia, WA 98512
Phone: (360) 357-8425 FAX: (360) 357-4438
Email: info@blacklakebiblecamp.com
Web Site: www.blacklakebiblecamp.com
Year around facilities for 15-350, up to 450 in the summer, including dorms, cabins, over 35 RV sites with hook-ups, and 38 units with private baths. Excellent for all groups: youth, men, women, couples, family camps and retreat - best service and prices. Black Lake also features "Harmony Springs" wilderness youth camps.

I really think it's Black Lake Camp now.

[Jules71]

I think you are right momtective. I have to go for awhile. I'll be back later.

Another thing to think about: Last phone call was 9:26 p.m. then nothing until 1:11 a.m. My thought is that he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m. and again at 1:11 a.m. That means he had about 3.75 hours to travel in. Cut that in half and you get 1 hour and 22 minutes. Draw a circle around McCleary that shows how far you can travel in 1 hour and 22 minutes and we might be able to pick up some good search locations.

It would be nice to know where the phone pinged. It would sure help!

Salem

I'll be back soon!

Hubby's taking me to dinner :) yum!

Salem

Are we just speculating he was in McCleary for the 1:11 am call? What makes you think that? Maybe he was gone all night and when he got home he made the 6 am call?

[scandi]

i want to know what that 2 min call was all about....and why the didnt talk longer then that?????

i read it as he got a call from girl friend!!

and if you guys are already talking about this....sorry....im trying to catch up :)


I have no clue what it could be ;} Unless like a poster speculated that he made over 6 calls an hour trying to get ahold of her an couldn't so she finally called him back at 1:11 when she got home and he was in no mood to talk. xox

[scandi]

So about this person who has taken up for the POI and his family....I haven't seen a response from them addressing the alleged SA reported against the POI years ago. And I haven't seen, as of last night, anyone asking about it. It's like the big white elephant in the room everyone is ignoring over there. Or are those questions too sensitive and being deleted?

ETA: I'm very curious as to whether an "excuse" has been offered up for that like the other "excuses" offered so far?

From what I've seen he is said not to be the kind of person who would do something like that and believe it has been passed off as people saying lies about him. xox

i wonder if that was *odd* for him to be acting like he was...so to get suspended for two weeks to think about it......since it was right before lindsey went missing.....what was he doing that was goofing off?

im really worried about that camp!! it bothered me all night...i could not sleep!

i also want to know what his misbehavior is?

I believe in the affidavit it states he had been in trouble there before for misbehavior and this time the Director was going to decide if she wanted him to even work there anymore. xox


Note, Here is the exact verbage from the Affidavit:

"The investigator telephoned him and Dale said he had not worked at the Center that day. When asked where he was on the evening of June 26, 2009 he said he was working at his second job at a youth camp near Olympia. The investigator contacted _____Supervisor at the youth camp. She stated that Golder was not working on the night of June 26, 2009. When asked if she was certain, she said she was because she had suspended Golder for two weeks prior to June 26, 2009 for misbehavior. She said she had been involved in a traffic collision and could not walk. She said while she was recuperating at home other employees in the camp kitchen telephoned her and complained that Golder was not doing his work and was being disruptive. She said she telephoned him and told him to go home for two weeks until she could return. She said she told him he needed to take that time to think about whatever he really wanted to work at the camp or not. She stated that she had sent Golder home for a shift at a time without pay in the past for misbehavior. Golder later confirmed that he had been suspended from June 7, 2008 through June 27, 2009. He returned to working at the camp on June 28, 2009. Affidavit

[scandi]

Great thinking Salem.. you are right on the money... Now...PING info please...

Here is what I found and it is not my area of expertise lol:

http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/map_brand_mm2.php?brandID=CELL_TOWERS&addr=MCCLEARY,%20WA&tlist=CELL_TOWERS,

It is an interactive map so you can slide down to Aberdeen and see there are only 2 towers for that big area and then over to Olympia where there are not many either {the State Capitol}. I was amazed how few towers it takes to service an area.

Do they play on each other for strength in signal that is if they are closer together?

[A_Closer_Look]

I have no clue what it could be ;} Unless like a poster speculated that he made over 6 calls an hour trying to get ahold of her an couldn't so she finally called him back at 1:11 when she got home and he was in no mood to talk. xox

Possible, but at 9:59pm on 6/26/2009, she posted a message to his MS. I know that she could have posted that from anywhere though...

Jun 26 2009 9:59 PM

Hi, You~ ;)

[mysticrose]

So far I have only found 2 cell towers in McCleary:

Verizon Wireless (Vaw)

Portn Ne1/4 Ne1/4(gov Lot#1) Sec 4, T18n, R4w
Mccleary, WA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
United States Cellular Corp.

Oak St.
Mccleary, WA

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=mccleary&state_abr=wa

[scandi]

Possible, but at 9:59pm on 6/26/2009, she posted a message to his MS. I know that she could have posted that from anywhere though...

Thanks A Closer Look as I had missed that :blushing:

[nursebeeme]

There is a camp at Black Lake (I believe it's Black Lake) near Olympia. I'm wondering if that is the camp he worked at and also if Lindsey's body might be recovered in or near that lake.
drain it!

[momtective]

drain it!

Have you seen the size of that lake? lol
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

[nursebeeme]

So about this person who has taken up for the POI and his family....I haven't seen a response from them addressing the alleged SA reported against the POI years ago. And I haven't seen, as of last night, anyone asking about it. It's like the big white elephant in the room everyone is ignoring over there. Or are those questions too sensitive and being deleted?

ETA: I'm very curious as to whether an "excuse" has been offered up for that like the other "excuses" offered so far?
a continued manipulation of information. it is very hinky imhoo.

[nursebeeme]

From what I've seen he is said not to be the kind of person who would do something like that and believe it has been passed off as people saying lies about him. xox



I believe in the affidavit it states he had been in trouble there before for misbehavior and this time the Director was going to decide if she wanted him to even work there anymore. xox


Note, Here is the exact verbage from the Affidavit:

"The investigator telephoned him and Dale said he had not worked at the Center that day. When asked where he was on the evening of June 26, 2009 he said he was working at his second job at a youth camp near Olympia. The investigator contacted _____Supervisor at the youth camp. She stated that Golder was not working on the night of June 26, 2009. When asked if she was certain, she said she was because she had suspended Golder for two weeks prior to June 26, 2009 for misbehavior. She said she had been involved in a traffic collision and could not walk. She said while she was recuperating at home other employees in the camp kitchen telephoned her and complained that Golder was not doing his work and was being disruptive. She said she telephoned him and told him to go home for two weeks until she could return. She said she told him he needed to take that time to think about whatever he really wanted to work at the camp or not. She stated that she had sent Golder home for a shift at a time without pay in the past for misbehavior. Golder later confirmed that he had been suspended from June 7, 2008 through June 27, 2009. He returned to working at the camp on June 28, 2009. Affidavit He LIED to LE about his whereabouts the day in question. BIG. RED. FLAG. (huge one!)

[nursebeeme]

Have you seen the size of that lake? lol
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14
LOL mom! okay... drag it? LOL

[momtective]

LOL mom! okay... drag it? LOL

If it finds Linsdey, they can drain it, drag it, dive it or use Dale Golder as fish bait in it for all I care. Whatever it takes...we just gotta find her! It's been so long DNA is slipping away. I'm praying the condoms they took will show solid evidence but at the same time my heart breaks knowing the reality of Lindsey's situation if they do.

[nursebeeme]

I just finished catching up.

This poi is hinky inky inky!!!

A past history (alleged) of barricading a child in a room WITH A DRESSER BLOCKING THE FREAKING DOOR while he was BABYSITTING.

He now works at a camp with CHILDREN and has been suspended for two weeks for behavior problems.

He lied about where he was the night Lindsey vanished.

His cell phone patterns for that night are VERY DIFFERENT than usual (think Casey Anthony); they are normal than drop off for several hours... in fact during the same hours that are in question in the Lindsey Baum case!!!!!! They resume many hours later and continue at the same rate as normal.

Might I add, the other similarity (imhoo) to the Casey Anthony case is that several people on the internet who we assume to be adult relatives/family friends have taken to bending info to support the non~involvement of the POI. Capitulating on the good and naysaying (or not saying a word) about the bad (ie past child attempted SA allegations).. It is beyond a tad bit defensive to say the least.

I DO NOT think this is a case of LE going in and "picking on" this person and trying to make all of the 'round information' fit into a 'square hole'... (as has been alleged on other sites).. they had/have enough goods to be naming this dude as a poi... and we have seen them. I must admit.. I am very suspicious of his possible involvement. I also further wonder what led LE to him in the first place????????

[nursebeeme]

If it finds Linsdey, they can drain it, drag it, dive it or use Dale Golder as fish bait in it for all I care. Whatever it takes...we just gotta find her! It's been so long DNA is slipping away. I'm praying the condoms they took will show solid evidence but at the same time my heart breaks knowing the reality of Lindsey's situation if they do.
all the shoes in the trash didn't sit right with me either!

[nursebeeme]

http://www.myspace.com/fu**youalldaylonghoe (of course type in ck where the two stars are as usual)

check out his bumper stickers.. they include mass murder, suicide, slitting throats, etc...

ETA: has it also been mentioned/discussed that he is a "proud parent"????? per his myspace profile

[momtective]

From Affidavit:Located on Maple Street between 5th and 6th Street is Beehive Retirement Center. Baum is familiar with the center because her friend_________’s mother Libby Nelson works there. As part of the investigation employees and residents were interviewed about what they knew about Baum and her disappearance. Several of the staff and residents were familiar with Baum and her friend_____ because Baum walked by the retirement center to and from her friend Campen’s residence on Maple Street. None knew anything about her disappearance, nor had they seen her the night of June 26th, 2009. Not all of the employees were available to interview at the time the investigators were on site.

On 07-29-09 a concerned citizen named_________contacted investigators and wanted to report that a subject named Dale Golder worked at the Beehive retirement center. Sample said that Dale drove a small white car with loud exhaust. Sample said that Golder usually drove his car through town numerous times a day. He said that for several weeks after the Baum girl disappeared Golder wasn’t in town driving like he normally did. Sample found this suspicious. Sample identified another resident in McCleary who was familiar with Golder’s vehicle and driving habits.
Mantes was contacted and told investigators that Golder drove a small white sports car with loud exhaust. Mentes said Golder drove around town on a regular basis. He also told investigators that on the night of June 26th 2009 at about 10:00pm he saw a small white sports car with loud exhaust on Maple street in McCleary that he thought was Golder’s. He did not see who was driving the vehicle and thought nothing of it because seeing Golder driving around was normal. Golder is the registered owner of the white 1995 Honda Del Sol, Washington License______

One of the employees who was not working at the Center that night had been identified as Golder. He is an aide at the Center and is scheduled for various shifts as a “fill in.” Golder was on regularly scheduled days off on June 26th 2009 and June 27, 2009. Attempts were made to contact him on July 29, 2009 for a telephone interview to see if he had any information about Baum based on Mentes observation of what appeared to be his vehicle in McCleary on the night and at about the time Baum was last seen.

[nursebeeme]

thanks mom.... for that car info... and the list KEEPS GROWING on this guy.. things be adding up eh?

[momtective]

IMO Everything in the Affidavit points to Golder as Lindsey's kidnapper and murderer...everything.
LE knows exactly what they are doing and I expect Golder will be arrested and charged with the murder of Lindsey in the very near future.
Give a man enough rope and he will indeed hang himself. LE is just allowing him to enjoy a very false sense of security right now because they need to know where he put Lindsey's body.
Pray, pray, pray that he and his family keep running their mouths and that he makes an attempt to go back and cover his tracks. Believe me when I tell you LE has this boy in a fish tank and they are not taking their eyes off of him for even one second.

[momtective]

Nursebeeme... the entire Affidavit can be found here Affidavit-Sept 25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

[TakeNote]

ok....i understand the 9:26 as the time in McCleary.......

but the next one at 1:11 am was recieved by him foer 2mins....

and then he starts to call at 6:00 am .....we know he went back to work this day? right?

i get the starting point....but how do we know he was in McCleary after the 9:26? pm

im trying to get a feel for the time line
and im still thinking the camp .....is the place
we need to know if its open 24 hrs a day and if they keep a log on who goes and who comes :)

and are we buying the whole BBQ that night?

[scandi]

He LIED to LE about his whereabouts the day in question. BIG. RED. FLAG. (huge one!)

Oh, I agree. He actually had 4 different stories about his whereabouts. xox

[TakeNote]

Have you seen the size of that lake? lol
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

if this is the camp he worked at....i maped it to mccleary

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

it is 23.2 miles and takes about 37 mins to get there

[nursebeeme]

Nursebeeme... the entire Affidavit can be found here Affidavit-Sept 25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89777)
thanks mom! after working all day every day this weekend I 'preciate that shortcut! off to take several long and detailed looks at this "fish in a tank"!

[nursebeeme]

ok....i understand the 9:26 as the time in McCleary.......

but the next one at 1:11 am was recieved by him foer 2mins....

and then he starts to call at 6:00 am .....we know he went back to work this day? right?

i get the starting point....but how do we know he was in McCleary after the 9:26? pm

im trying to get a feel for the time line
and im still thinking the camp .....is the place
we need to know if its open 24 hrs a day and if they keep a log on who goes and who comes :)

and are we buying the whole BBQ that night?
if fish ( my new nick for him thanks mom lol) would be so stupid as to say he was at work (where others would see him or not), than I wouldn't put it past him to lie about the bbq. However, I also wouldn't put it past friends of his who WERE THERE to lie either. If that be the case I am sure holes can be shot in it by LE post haste.

[scandi]

IMO Everything in the Affidavit point to Golder as Lindsey's kidnapper and murderer...everything.
LE knows exactly what they are doing and I expect Golder will be arrested and charged with the murder of Lindsey in the very near future.
Give a man enough rope and he will indeed hang himself. LE is just allowing him to enjoy a very false sense of security right now because they need to know where he put Lindsey's body.
Pray, pray, pray that he and his family keep running their mouths and that he makes an attempt to go back and cover his tracks. Believe me when I tell you LE has this boy in a fish tank and they are not taking their eyes off of him for even one second.

Thanks so much for that encouraging post Momtective. Your thoughts even give reason to why LE might lessen their mental grip on him a bit and let King5 publish there are no suspects nor a POI in the case. That bugged me.

I actually think LE has been very clever in handling this as they have. I don't remember a case where the probable cause has been spelled out so clearly and given to the public within a week of the actual search. It is astounding to me, especially that they included the part from his GF about dismemberment. That must have choked who ever read the article.

So now that Golder is on the minds of many, they know what he drives and what he looks like, I hope LE is inundated with calls about seeing him here and there, like frequenting the water tower or up off a logging road on the NE part of town. Or even cruising around Black Lake!

I hope this strategy works and very soon LE will have further probable cause to slap the cuffs on him.

[JenniferO]

I wonder if she is now his "ex" girlfriend.

[nursebeeme]

Thanks so much for that encouraging post Momtective. Your thoughts even give reason to why LE might lessen their mental grip on him a bit and let King5 publish there are no suspects nor a POI in the case. That bugged me.

I actually think LE has been very clever in handling this as they have. I don't remember a case where the probable cause has been spelled out so clearly and given to the public within a week of the actual search. It is astounding to me, especially that they included the part from his GF about dismemberment. That must have choked who ever read the article.

So now that Golder is on the minds of many, they know what he drives and what he looks like, I hope LE is inundated with calls about seeing him here and there, like frequenting the water tower or up off a logging road on the NE part of town. Or even cruising around Black Lake!

I hope this strategy works and very soon LE will have further probable cause to slap the cuffs on him.
beautiful post Scandi! (as usual!) ITA with all of it! esp the bold!

[momtective]

I wonder if she is now his "ex" girlfriend.

Maybe not :wink: if she's working with LE

[nursebeeme]

question/thought in my head... What time did his shift at the camp start on the 28th? (day after his suspension ENDED. day after Lindsey went missing)...

[JenniferO]

good point momtective ;)

[nursebeeme]

I wonder if she is now his "ex" girlfriend.
are you hearing anything locally Jennifer (on the case progress)? And tia for all the work you continue to do~!

[TakeNote]

i found that the person who was angry tt and posted about her son going off to the army before lindsey went missing.....is friends with fish's girl friend and from what tt said she is the mother of fish's girlfriend/friend that posted about the name change walters :)

gzzz.....talking in code is soooo hard....i hope you all get it :)

[TakeNote]

so how do we nail down the location to the camp?

anyone friends with a reporter :)

[scandi]

I wonder if she is now his "ex" girlfriend.

Yea, I bet they are history after what she has been thru.

How did it go today? It was drizzly here and I thought about the search many times. I did read 4 or so officers were doing a search in some timberland north of a timber plant {can't remember the name ;} I saw what looked like a paved road leading north into the woods and wonder if they zoned in on anything. xox

[TakeNote]

and have i (((huged))) you all today :)

what a fine group we are :)

[TakeNote]

Yea, I bet they are history after what she has been thru.

How did it go today? It was drizzly here and I thought about the search many times. I did read 4 or so officers were doing a search in some timberland north of a timber plant {can't remember the name ;} I saw what looked like a paved road leading north into the woods and wonder if they zoned in on anything. xox

where did you read that? :)

that could be very helpful :)

[momtective]

I'm wondering if anyone who saw Golder on the 27th at either of his jobs noticed any scratches on him. I remember Lindsey's mom saying Lindsey had long finger nails and she would have fought. I'm betting if folks will just focus a little bit, someone will remember scratches on his arms, neck or face on the 27th. I'm think with the info in the Affidavit out there people will be more apt to recall certain things that they otherwise wouldn't have felt were significant.

[nursebeeme]

On 07-31-09 just after Midnight Melissa Baum, the mother of the missing girl reported to police she was being followed around by a white vehicle. Officers stopped and found that Golder was driving it. He claimed he was at work when he saw Melissa’s Baum’s vehicle around the Beehive Retirement Center. He thought it was suspicious so he followed it around thinking it might be connected with Baum’s disappearance. He did not call police to report the suspicious vehicle.


okay fish... yeah right...

[mysticrose]

I've been sitting here thinking about the Youth Camp (wish we knew for sure where) it's a good possibility he may have taken her there and could be why he said he was at work there, because someone could have seen his car there that night, trying to cover both ends of his story? Just a thought.

[mysticrose]

I wonder why it took LE nearly three months for this search ? Seems to me they had this info early on about 1 month after ?

[JenniferO]

are you hearing anything locally Jennifer (on the case progress)? And tia for all the work you continue to do~!

My sources are the same as yours.. so I know as much as you do (I probably know less than you do because I haven't really read the boards or watched any of the news for the past few days. It's been to hectic and busy here with it being a search weekend)

[nursebeeme]

She was asked why the contact stopped at 9:30pm. She said that it stopped because Golder went to work at 10:00pm.
we know this is a lie!

[nursebeeme]

She said that Golder had talked to her the day after the girl was reported missing and that he was very concerned about something like this happening in his town
really fish? what had you so concerned that it would happen in your itty bitty town?

[mysticrose]

we know this is a lie!

Heck Yes, well was he going to the youth camp at 10:00 PM or the Behive?
LOL...I'm sure that is what he told her...

[scandi]

beautiful post Scandi! (as usual!) ITA with all of it! esp the bold!

Thanks Nurse, all that hot passion, you know. LOL

It really hurts to think of this guy even being associated w/ Black Lake. It is a beautiful area, and having lived in Lacey in the early 70's, remember that area as it started to be really developed and become a lovely bedroom area of Olympia.

Gosh, I even remember dancing the night away at a beautiful bar near BL to 'Jerimaih was a Bullfrog' - the hot tune of the day. Hmmmmmm

[JenniferO]

Yea, I bet they are history after what she has been thru.

How did it go today? It was drizzly here and I thought about the search many times. I did read 4 or so officers were doing a search in some timberland north of a timber plant {can't remember the name ;} I saw what looked like a paved road leading north into the woods and wonder if they zoned in on anything. xox

The weather wasn't bad. I didn't work at the search center today. Had other obligations but I made it there in time tonight for the end of the day debriefing of the core members. Dawn and Sandy from LRC were back up this weekend so we said goodbye to them. Other than that I don't know anything about today.

Yeah.. I heard about that live up to the minute breaking news that was posted over there. Umm.. once again, it was reported incorrectly..

Not LE. It was a few volunteer searchers. That was just one of the many areas searched today..

[momtective]

Heck Yes, well was he going to the youth camp at 10:00 PM or the Behive?
LOL...I'm sure that is what he told her...

But if she knew he was at work why would she call him at 1:11am? He would still be on his shift, right?

[momtective]

JenniferO, do you have any idea what Camp Golder worked at?

[JenniferO]

JenniferO, do you have any idea what Camp Golder worked at?

Nope, You guys know more about him than I do. I didn't even know what he looked like until his pictures were posted on here.

[scandi]

I've been sitting here thinking about the Youth Camp (wish we knew for sure where) it's a good possibility he may have taken her there and could be why he said he was at work there, because someone could have seen his car there that night, trying to cover both ends of his story? Just a thought.

WOW Mystic, I just felt the hairs on the back of my neck bristle reading that! Excellent thought BTW. Keep thiking. LOL

Watching Criminal Minds. Maybe I'll learn some new technique for sleuthing ;}

[mysticrose]

No one has ever called me while I was at work, ever...

[Jules71]

Yea, I bet they are history after what she has been thru.

How did it go today? It was drizzly here and I thought about the search many times. I did read 4 or so officers were doing a search in some timberland north of a timber plant {can't remember the name ;} I saw what looked like a paved road leading north into the woods and wonder if they zoned in on anything. xox

On as recent as 9/23, just a few days before the search of Golder's property - she wrote kiss kiss on his ms page. So what do you all make of that?

[nursebeeme]

this affidavit was truly eye opening in this case! wow! If we were to believe the crap being posted at other 'sites' you would think that this poi was just a ghost. I say not! And it makes me also, really wonder about those supposed "family ties" over on those other sites. At the least, some more clues could be garnered eh?

I am glad to know that LE is onto something solid. This seems very solid to me. Actually beyond solid. I am sure they have a tail on fish.

[nursebeeme]

pin the tail on the fish

eta: play on words only (kinda)

[momtective]

pin the tail on the fish

eta: play on words only (kinda)

:floorlaugh: More like slap the cuffs on the fish!

[mysticrose]

Well hubby wants to go to bed. I'll keep pondering this over and over until I have picked it to the bone.

Goodnight all see you tommorrow !

[nursebeeme]

I'm really happy they posted the affidavit publicly. It seems that DD has finally left me alone and stopped blaming me for single handedly ruining this families life.

Looks like Dale was perfectly capable of doing that himself. My help wasn't needed.

Don't quote me please. I might decide to delete this in a few minutes. ;)
you keep going girl! And hold your head up high! The ONLY PERSON THAT NEEDS TO ANSWER to where they were when, where, why, and how is fish... and he seems to have no apparant clue.(or the real one that he is willing to share)

As to the family.. a bad egg only ruins the family if they crack it and let the rotten insides seep all over the rest of the family. They are behaving so much like the Casey A family at this point that it makes me do the little vomit in my own mouth deal.

Don't you delete your post. It was wonderful. You have nothing to hide from.. you have been an ANGEL (and contine to be) in this case~! I have also seen where you have been dragged thru the mud on other sites and it makes me spit nails and puke out shingles! If I had an ounce of evil in my body I would sign up and respond but that is not the way I roll. However, don't for one minute think that I didn't see that stuff and not think of you... and hope you would let it roll off like water off a duck feather..

((aside: did you know that ducks secrete a waxy like substance that they coat their feathers with to make them waterproof?))

Okay.. I know.. I am rambling.. but I just want you to know that I am in awe of all you are doing JenniferO...! you go girl!

[nursebeeme]

night night mystic!

[momtective]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know each other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?

[scandi]

you keep going girl! And hold your head up high! The ONLY PERSON THAT NEEDS TO ANSWER to where they were when, where, why, and how is fish... and he seems to have no apparant clue.(or the real one that he is willing to share)

As to the family.. a bad egg only ruins the family if they crack it and let the rotten insides seep all over the rest of the family. They are behaving so much like the Casey A family at this point that it makes me do the little vomit in my own mouth deal.

Don't you delete your post. It was wonderful. You have nothing to hide from.. you have been an ANGEL (and contine to be) in this case~! I have also seen where you have been dragged thru the mud on other sites and it makes me spit nails and puke out shingles! If I had an ounce of evil in my body I would sign up and respond but that is not the way I roll. However, don't for one minute think that I didn't see that stuff and not think of you... and hope you would let it roll off like water off a duck feather..

((aside: did you know that ducks secrete a waxy like substance that they coat their feathers with to make them waterproof?))

Okay.. I know.. I am rambling.. but I just want you to know that I am in awe of all you are doing JenniferO...! you go girl!

I did one day last week because I belong there. I just had enough of the ragging and let it blow! xox

[nursebeeme]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know eac other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?
ita, esp after reading in the affadavit that someone reported his noisey white car in the same area as Linsey missing.

I would think he would go to remote areas KNOWN... ie... areas that he had familiarity with that were also remote and not likely to have been frequented by lots of people. Also, as per premeditation.. do you think this was planned or opportunity? I think it was more like spur of the moment. He could have picked her up and planned on doing something kinky and it went above and beyond... not sure what anyone else was thinking... kinda like a "lets drive out here and talk" kinda thing that evolved into an assault and murder, etc.... (sorry to be so graphic)

[Salem]

Are we just speculating he was in McCleary for the 1:11 am call? What makes you think that? Maybe he was gone all night and when he got home he made the 6 am call?

Jules - DEFINITELY just speculating. I'm thinking he knew enough to turn his phone off? Didn't turn it back on until later. I think that because the affidavit says this was unusual behavior for him - that normally there were calls and texts all during the night until about 1:00ish in the morning. If, normally, he was using his phone from 9:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m., it stands to reason he was communicating with more than 1 person. So... the GF says he went to work, or that's what she thought (maybe?) but others would have probably continued to contact him during those hours.... but he got no calls or texts? I could be reading too much into the comments on SW, but it helps to try to narrow the search area if we can?

Salem

[TakeNote]

here is a link to a great map i found on cyberswept account

http://s913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/cyberswept/?action=view&current=20mile_radius.jpg

it shows a 20 mile radius

[scandi]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know each other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?

Did we ever read much about the private dog search for Lindsey? I can't remember his name, but I have read that one place his cadaver dog alerted was on or off a logging road that somehow takes off of Beck St which is in the NE part of McCleary.

See if this shows the road off Beck St: http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x183/Smishy_2007/Karmamapforgizzie.jpg
I just looked at a map {wish I could drive it}, and do see a road that takes off of Beck heading north and then bends to the east a bit. It Y's with another road and goes until it just dead ends.

I don't think there is much out there besides trees and a few small wild animals. I think screams would be muffled by all the branches. And so close to town the road would most likely be easy for even a low rider to travel.

There is another thought I have about a gun. In the SW there was so much spelled out for the search of gun stuff. Maybe it was standard verbiage. But it made me wonder if someone reported hearing gunshots that night! I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilitiy. xox


ETA: Euf ta meta! I can't get this map I found on Google to delete. It blew the margins. Christine, can you try to delete it? Ta

[Salem]

Here is what I found and it is not my area of expertise lol:

http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/map_brand_mm2.php?brandID=CELL_TOWERS&addr=MCCLEARY,%20WA&tlist=CELL_TOWERS,

It is an interactive map so you can slide down to Aberdeen and see there are only 2 towers for that big area and then over to Olympia where there are not many either {the State Capitol}. I was amazed how few towers it takes to service an area.

Do they play on each other for strength in signal that is if they are closer together?

Great find Scandi! I'm wondering if all towers are listed because I don't see Verizon or AT&T or Sprint towers.

Salem

[TakeNote]

Jules - DEFINITELY just speculating. I'm thinking he knew enough to turn his phone off? Didn't turn it back on until later. I think that because the affidavit says this was unusual behavior for him - that normally there were calls and texts all during the night until about 1:00ish in the morning. If, normally, he was using his phone from 9:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m., it stands to reason he was communicating with more than 1 person. So... the GF says he went to work, or that's what she thought (maybe?) but others would have probably continued to contact him during those hours.... but he got no calls or texts? I could be reading too much into the comments on SW, but it helps to try to narrow the search area if we can?

Salem

no i think you are right.....i bet he turned off his phone...at 9:26
i think he was talking to his girlfriend....seen lindsey and said hey...i got to go im going to work....

then girlfriend sent a message to his myspace......i bet because his phone was off.....then there was a two min call at 1:11....

then he was back on the phone at 6am.......

im still looking at the time line from 9:26pm to 6:00am

sorry to say....but i dont think he was done by 1:11 am

i think girlfriend could have thought he was on break at 1:11 and phoned him.....maybe she left a long message for him.....

maybe he didnt turn his phone back on until 6am and seen she called then...?

[Salem]

Have you seen the size of that lake? lol
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

Thank you! And it is 36 minutes from McCleary: http://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=6521+Fairview+Rd+SW,+Olympia,+WA+98512-7052+(Black+Lake+Bible+Camp)&geocode=CVfYX8uHtkGVFQUGzQIdJqGr-CH-8ga8TUxsTg&dirflg=&saddr=McCleary,+WA&f=d&hl=en&dq=Black+Lake+Camp+loc:+Olympia,+WA&sll=46.999339,-122.974262&sspn=0.027395,0.077162&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11

Salem

[momtective]

This area across from the Golder property is very heavily wooded with what looks to be logging roads. I've mapped 3.3 miles into the woods. Do y'all think anyone would have heard her scream from that deep into the woods?http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=47.025265,-123.321404&daddr=149+Foreman+Rd,+McCleary,+WA+98557&geocode=%3BFZG5zQIdfeam-A&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=15&sll=47.021374,-123.307242&sspn=0.013692,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=47.027517,-123.293552&spn=0.01369,0.038581&t=h&z=15

[Jules71]

Jules - DEFINITELY just speculating. I'm thinking he knew enough to turn his phone off? Didn't turn it back on until later. I think that because the affidavit says this was unusual behavior for him - that normally there were calls and texts all during the night until about 1:00ish in the morning. If, normally, he was using his phone from 9:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m., it stands to reason he was communicating with more than 1 person. So... the GF says he went to work, or that's what she thought (maybe?) but others would have probably continued to contact him during those hours.... but he got no calls or texts? I could be reading too much into the comments on SW, but it helps to try to narrow the search area if we can?

Salem

Salem,
I think you are right on about him turning his phone off - but wouldn't it still show missed calls and stuff? How would the ppl who txt or call him know not to disturb him during this time? Hmmmm... thinking...

[TakeNote]

ok thinking here

we know fish was into cars....we did see where he smashed in his in some of his pics...it looked like it was out in the forest.....

are there places where kids can drive thier cars around in the mud and stuff like that....or go dirt bike ridding .....off trails?

i noticed the person that connect walters to fishs girlfriend...has pics of his 4 wheelers

[TakeNote]

This area across from the Golder property is very heavily wooded with what looks to be logging roads. I've mapped 3.3 miles into the woods. Do y'all think anyone would have heard her scream from that deep into the woods?http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=47.025265,-123.321404&daddr=149+Foreman+Rd,+McCleary,+WA+98557&geocode=%3BFZG5zQIdfeam-A&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=15&sll=47.021374,-123.307242&sspn=0.013692,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=47.027517,-123.293552&spn=0.01369,0.038581&t=h&z=15

not if he taped her mouth...tied her up? could have done that in the car....it is interesting that there was a comment about how his doors did work....could he have done that....so it would be harder for her to get out?

[christine2448]

FYI- Y'all can always meet up REAL TIME in WS chat..


The chat room is open if anyone is interested in chatting about this case! Come in anytime you all want to talk real time! Open even if a mod is not present--just behave ok?

[scandi]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know each other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?

Did we ever read much about the private dog search for Lindsey? I can't remember his name, but I have read that one place his cadaver dog alerted was on or off a logging road that somehow takes off of Beck St which is in the NE part of McCleary.



I just looked at a map {wish I could drive it}, and do see a road that takes off of Beck heading north and then bends to the east a bit. It Y's with another road and goes until it just dead ends.

I don't think there is much out there besides trees and a few small wild animals. I think screams would be muffled by all the branches. And so close to town the road would most likely be easy for even a low rider to travel.

There is another thought I have about a gun. In the SW there was so much spelled out for the search of gun stuff. Maybe it was standard verbiage. But it made me wonder if someone reported hearing gunshots that night! I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilitiy. xox

[nursebeeme]

This area across from the Golder property is very heavily wooded with what looks to be logging roads. I've mapped 3.3 miles into the woods. Do y'all think anyone would have heard her scream from that deep into the woods?http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=47.025265,-123.321404&daddr=149+Foreman+Rd,+McCleary,+WA+98557&geocode=%3BFZG5zQIdfeam-A&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=15&sll=47.021374,-123.307242&sspn=0.013692,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=47.027517,-123.293552&spn=0.01369,0.038581&t=h&z=15
that deep in? no.. not in my opinion

[nursebeeme]

Salem,
I think you are right on about him turning his phone off - but wouldn't it still show missed calls and stuff? How would the ppl who txt or call him know not to disturb him during this time? Hmmmm... thinking...

~or setting it to SILENT...~ just a thought

eta: hope the silent setting would be the case... as pings would be registered

further eta.. when your phone rings while you are otherwise busy... turning the ringer to silent or vibrate could be a possibility

[TakeNote]

how long does a perp keep them in like say a car.....what is the *normal* amount of time a perp would give them selves to get to a place to get her under his control?

[scandi]

Great find Scandi! I'm wondering if all towers are listed because I don't see Verizon or AT&T or Sprint towers.

Salem

We have a poster here who posted the 7 towers in GHC, and they were broken down by company. The one closest to McCleary is by Verizon I know, kind of above the Capitol Forest area. I 'll go pull what I read but don't think AT&T or SPRINT have any towers in the area.

I found this, a listing of all the cell towers in GHC I believe from o'er yonder but published:

"
Full list of 8 FCC Registered Antenna Towers in Elma, WA:
ROBERT S SNOW, Pine +2nd Street (Lat: 47.005083 Lon: -123.402361), Type: Tower, Structure height: 15.2 m, Overall height: 15.2 m, , Licensee ID: L00144848
Registrant: Public Utility Dist. #1of Grays Harbor County, Aberdeen, WA 98520,

ROBERT S SNOW, Minot Peak 7 Miles South Of Elma Wa. (Lat: 46.891500 Lon: -123.416278), Type: Tower, Structure height: 21.3 m, Overall height: 21.3 m, , Licensee ID: L00144848
Registrant: Public Utility Dist. #1of Grays Harbor County, Aberdeen, WA 98520, Phone:

Lottie L Thompson, 510 Workman Creek Road (Elma #43230) (Lat: 46.971556 Lon: -123.439028), Type: Tower, Structure height: 61.6 m, Overall height: 63.4 m
Registrant: American Towers, Inc., 1101 Perimeter Drive, Schaumburg, IL 60173, Phone:

Robert Leedham, Rr Ave & #rd St (Lat: 47.007583 Lon: -123.404333), Type: Tower, Structure height: 27.4 m, Overall height: 33.5 m
Registrant: The Burlington Northern And Santa Fe Railway Co, 4515 Kansas Avenue, Kansas City, KS 66106-1199, Phone:

Ross Read, E End Of Tower Boulevard, Concrete Cooling Tower #3 (Lat: 46.960833 Lon: -123.463056), Type: Building, Structure height: 152.4 m, Overall height: 161.5 m
Registrant: Radio Licensing Services, Milwaukie, OR 97269-2161, Phone:

Ross Read, W End Of Tower Boulevard, Concrete Cooling Tower #5 (Lat: 46.959167 Lon: -123.474444), Type: Building, Structure height: 152.4 m, Overall height: 161.5 m
Registrant: Radio Licensing Services, Milwaukie, OR 97269-2161,


PETER M CONNOLLY, 2.5 Mi Se (Lat: 46.986111 Lon: -123.358056), Type: Tower, Structure height: 115.8 m, Overall height: 118.9 m
Registrant: Holland & Knight LLP, 2099 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Sui, Washington, DC 20006, Phone:


501 N. 2nd Street (Lat: 47.003333 Lon: -123.403333), Type: Tower, Structure height: 24.3 m, Overall height: 24.3 m
Registrant: Puget Sound And Pacific Railroad, 501 North 2nd Street, Elma, WA 98541, Phone:"

[momtective]

Scandi, I definitely think we are moving in the right direction as far as logging roads go. Now whether he would have gone North, South, East, or West from where he took her on Maple street is yet to be determined. I'm thinking since his car was seen near Beehive around 10:00pm that maybe he did go toward Beck. But if he was coming from Beehive back toward Foreman maybe he would have gone to the woods across from Foreman off of Sandy Creek. I think both areas should be searched.

[McCleary]

ok thinking here

we know fish was into cars....we did see where he smashed in his in some of his pics...it looked like it was out in the forest.....

are there places where kids can drive thier cars around in the mud and stuff like that....or go dirt bike ridding .....off trails?

i noticed the person that connect walters to fishs girlfriend...has pics of his 4 wheelers

There are several different access points into Capital Forest where people go all the time for just driving around, mudding, and riding.

[McCleary]

Scandi, I definitely think we are moving in the right direction as far as logging roads go. Now whether he would have gone North, South, East, or West from where he took her on Maple street is yet to be determined. I'm thinking since his car was seen near Beehive around 10:00pm that maybe he did go toward Beck. But if he was coming from Beehive back toward Foreman maybe he would have gone to the woods across from Foreman off of Sandy Creek. I think both areas should be searched.

If he didn't want it to look like he was doing anything unusual, he probably headed back toward his own house when he was leaving town...and if he kept going out Mox Chehalis Rd. past Foreman/Sandy Creek then he could get down to highway 12 and head toward Capital Forest, I5 or the coast and all the forested areas before you get out there quite easily

[Salem]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

[Knox]

What about the area of the second job he was working, is that too far away to be a possibility. Also thought about whether a spiked soft drink was offered?

[boondock]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

oops deleted - sorry

[Salem]

What about the area of the second job he was working, is that too far away to be a possibility. Also thought about whether a spiked soft drink was offered?

First we have to determine where his 2nd job was.... If it was Black Lake, it is not too far away. Also, as Take Note has pointed out we have some timeline gaps in his cell phone usage that need to be addressed.

Last call at 9:26 p.m then nothing until 1:11 a.m. and then nothing until 6:18ish a.m. If he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m., got off the phone with his GF when he saw Lindsey (timing is perfect), continued incommunicado until 1:11 a.m. where was he at 1:11 a.m.? Was he back home? Was he in McCleary? Was he near his 2nd job? Then incommunicado again until 6:00ish - where was he then? Was he home? or elsewhere?

We really need a ping map.....

Salem

[scandi]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

SalemWOW Salem, It goes together with the possibility LE has a clever strategy going to draw this guy out, first called a POI then not, meanwhile everyone in the County practically knows who he is, what he drives and has his picture in their minds.

People are going to start putting the seeing of him together as they ponder the question and it will pop back into their minds, like "Yes, by jove, I saw that guy turn off Mox-Chehalis Rd down by where the old ___estate was and hey, no one could miss the sound of the pipes. I told my buddy these kids are crazy these days with souped up cars out heading into the boonies - half scared me to death when he made that quick turn. . . ., yes, it could be this fishly lookin' guy on the news I saw! Haa Ha. Think I better mention that to Sgt Fred down at the BINGO game tonight".

Sorry, but it would be how a sighting could come to memory, and I bet LE is going to reap the fruit of their strategy and take it to the bank! ;}

[scandi]

First we have to determine where is 2nd job was.... If it was Black Lake, it is not too far away. Also, as Take Note has pointed out we have some timeline gaps in his cell phone usage that need to be addressed.

Last call at 9:26 p.m then nothing until 1:11 a.m. and then nothing until 6:18ish a.m. If he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m., got off the phone with his GF when he saw Lindsey (timing is perfect), continued incommunicado until 1:11 a.m. where was he at 1:11 a.m.? Was he back home? Was he in McCleary? Was he near his 2nd job? Then incommunicado again until 6:00ish - where was he then? Was he home? or elsewhere?

We really need a ping map.....

Salem

Hi again Salem, I don't think we'll see that until discovery, do you, although reading that Affidavit was like hearing 'GOOD MORNING VIET NAM all over again. Amazing still I think. xox

[TakeNote]

Rock Candy Mountain
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

i found some pics on i believe is dales relitives, cause they live in the same area and they share the same last name.....

there were pics of mudding up in the forest and under one of the pics it mentioned rock candy mountian....and i looked it up.....

something to look into.....its in the capital forest area....18 miles from McCleary and straight shot on highway 8

[Jules71]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

I agree this should be explored more. We should do a "where was dale" timeline between 6/26 and 8/26 or 8/27.

6/26/09, 10 pm: Seen by someone by Beehive / gf also states he had to work at 10.
6/28/09: Returned to work (Youth Camp)
7/16/09: Ellensburg (sw says gf had to drive him back to ELMA)
7/17? - 7/20/09: sw says gf stayed with him in MCCLEARY
7/31/09: At work (Beehive) stopped by LE after following MB
8/26 or 8/27/09 seen at shop by tomato man

[TakeNote]

also in the capital forest area .....there is a few places you can camp for free

im curious where was he during that time??? for what ....a month?

i know his girl friend made comment on other myspace travis t moms myspace that she was hoping d would take a couple weeks off in aug and go for a visit....

[eyes4crime]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know each other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?

I gree momtective - I doubt very much he would take her to a place associated with him - especially where he worked. Also doubt he would use water to dump Lindsey in (sorry) cause there is too much of a chance she would balloon up.

I've read all the questions about his girlfriend and the phone - am I remembering correctly that she gave him her number just that day? The 26th?

My other question to everyone is how and why would Dale Golder know that Lindsey would be walking home alone that night? She was first walking with her brother and her friend...do most of you think that he saw Lindsey walking home alone and offered her a ride, and things got out of control. TIA

[eyes4crime]

also in the capital forest area .....there is a few places you can camp for free

im curious where was he during that time??? for what ....a month?

i know his girl friend made comment on other myspace travis t moms myspace that she was hoping d would take a couple weeks off in aug and go for a visit....

Wasn't Dale golder working? Thought I recently read that he lost his job at the Bee Hive over the recent publicity - don't know when he lost the job at the camp. Anyone know? TIA

[Salem]

Jules - let's start a new thread for the Dale timeline? What do you think?

Also - I found another summer camp near Olympia. It's on YouTube: YouTube - Wonderful World- Solomon Schechter Day School of Essex and Union High School Choir

Here's the address:
Camp Solomon Schechter

http://img.superpages.com/images-yp/sp/images/stars/5_stars.gif (1) Read Reviews (http://clicks.superpages.com/ct/clickThrough?SRC=sebpg&target=SP&PN=1&FP=profile&PGID=yp417.8081.1254638289796.24219378907&ACTION=log,red&FL=profile&TL=ureviews&LOC=http://yellowpages.superpages.com/reviews/userreviews.jsp?SRC=sebpg&EG=2&LID=rNnfXxOnOcc6ZaIk7B%2Bafg%3D%3D&PI=1&attres=true&lrv=1) | Write a Review (http://clicks.superpages.com/ct/clickThrough?SRC=sebpg&target=SP&PN=1&FP=profile&PGID=yp417.8081.1254638289796.24219378907&ACTION=log,red&FL=profile&TL=rateit&LOC=http://yellowpages.superpages.com/reviews/userrateit.jsp?SRC=sebpg&EG=2&LID=rNnfXxOnOcc6ZaIk7B%2Bafg%3D%3D)

1623 73rd Avenue Southeast, # A,
Olympia, WA 98501


I haven't mapped it yet. Looks like it is down town, but the website clearly shows there is a lake or some kind of water around it: http://www.campschechter.org/go/camp.solomon.schechter.summer.about.asp

It's about 37 mins from McCleary: http://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=1623+73rd+Ave+SE+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+985 01+(Camp+Solomon+Schechter)&geocode=CTvbGja6WzwLFXXizAIdk_Ss-CHZfhpnGCOs8g&dirflg=&saddr=McCleary,+WA&f=d&gl=us&dq=1623+73rd+Avenue+Southeast,+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+ 98501&sll=46.981749,-122.882925&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11

There are 3 lakes near by: Lake Susan; Munn Lake and Trails End Lake: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1623+73rd+Avenue+Southeast,+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+9 8501&sll=46.982214,-122.877016&sspn=0.012736,0.025063&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1623+73rd+Ave+SE,+Olympia,+Thurston,+Washing ton+98501&ll=46.98482,-122.878475&spn=0.025471,0.050125&t=h&z=14

Salem

[TakeNote]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

also in the capital forest area .....there is a few places you can camp for free

im curious where was he during that time??? for what ....a month?

i know his girl friend made comment on other myspace travis t moms myspace that she was hoping d would take a couple weeks off in aug and go for a visit....

Wasn't Dale golder working? Thought I recently read that he lost his job at the Bee Hive over the recent publicity - don't know when he lost the job at the camp. Anyone know? TIA


i was thinking about what salem said about how the tomato guy hadnt seen him for a while :)

[eyes4crime]

Jules - let's start a new thread for the Dale timeline? What do you think?

Also - I found another summer camp near Olympia. It's on YouTube: YouTube - Wonderful World- Solomon Schechter Day School of Essex and Union High School Choir (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-INOXmg6GI&NR=1)

Here's the address:
Camp Solomon Schechter

http://img.superpages.com/images-yp/sp/images/stars/5_stars.gif (1) Read Reviews (http://clicks.superpages.com/ct/clickThrough?SRC=sebpg&target=SP&PN=1&FP=profile&PGID=yp417.8081.1254638289796.24219378907&ACTION=log,red&FL=profile&TL=ureviews&LOC=http://yellowpages.superpages.com/reviews/userreviews.jsp?SRC=sebpg&EG=2&LID=rNnfXxOnOcc6ZaIk7B%2Bafg%3D%3D&PI=1&attres=true&lrv=1) | Write a Review (http://clicks.superpages.com/ct/clickThrough?SRC=sebpg&target=SP&PN=1&FP=profile&PGID=yp417.8081.1254638289796.24219378907&ACTION=log,red&FL=profile&TL=rateit&LOC=http://yellowpages.superpages.com/reviews/userrateit.jsp?SRC=sebpg&EG=2&LID=rNnfXxOnOcc6ZaIk7B%2Bafg%3D%3D)

1623 73rd Avenue Southeast, # A,
Olympia, WA 98501


I haven't mapped it yet. Looks like it is down town, but the website clearly shows there is a lake or some kind of water around it: http://www.campschechter.org/go/camp.solomon.schechter.summer.about.asp

It's about 37 mins from McCleary: http://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=1623+73rd+Ave+SE+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+985 01+(Camp+Solomon+Schechter)&geocode=CTvbGja6WzwLFXXizAIdk_Ss-CHZfhpnGCOs8g&dirflg=&saddr=McCleary,+WA&f=d&gl=us&dq=1623+73rd+Avenue+Southeast,+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+ 98501&sll=46.981749,-122.882925&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11

There are 3 lakes near by: Lake Susan; Munn Lake and Trails End Lake: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1623+73rd+Avenue+Southeast,+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+9 8501&sll=46.982214,-122.877016&sspn=0.012736,0.025063&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1623+73rd+Ave+SE,+Olympia,+Thurston,+Washing ton+98501&ll=46.98482,-122.878475&spn=0.025471,0.050125&t=h&z=14

Salem
I posted this last night cause I think this may be where he worked. If you look at the pics it's quite beautiful. Didn't know it was so close to McCleary. Dale Golder is Jewish (I think) and this would be a place he might work, not for the religion but for other reasons. mho

[Jules71]

Jules - let's start a new thread for the Dale timeline? What do you think?

Also - I found another summer camp near Olympia. It's on YouTube: YouTube - Wonderful World- Solomon Schechter Day School of Essex and Union High School Choir (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-INOXmg6GI&NR=1)

Here's the address:
Camp Solomon Schechter

http://img.superpages.com/images-yp/sp/images/stars/5_stars.gif (1) Read Reviews (http://clicks.superpages.com/ct/clickThrough?SRC=sebpg&target=SP&PN=1&FP=profile&PGID=yp417.8081.1254638289796.24219378907&ACTION=log,red&FL=profile&TL=ureviews&LOC=http://yellowpages.superpages.com/reviews/userreviews.jsp?SRC=sebpg&EG=2&LID=rNnfXxOnOcc6ZaIk7B%2Bafg%3D%3D&PI=1&attres=true&lrv=1) | Write a Review (http://clicks.superpages.com/ct/clickThrough?SRC=sebpg&target=SP&PN=1&FP=profile&PGID=yp417.8081.1254638289796.24219378907&ACTION=log,red&FL=profile&TL=rateit&LOC=http://yellowpages.superpages.com/reviews/userrateit.jsp?SRC=sebpg&EG=2&LID=rNnfXxOnOcc6ZaIk7B%2Bafg%3D%3D)

1623 73rd Avenue Southeast, # A,
Olympia, WA 98501


I haven't mapped it yet. Looks like it is down town, but the website clearly shows there is a lake or some kind of water around it: http://www.campschechter.org/go/camp.solomon.schechter.summer.about.asp

It's about 37 mins from McCleary: http://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=1623+73rd+Ave+SE+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+985 01+(Camp+Solomon+Schechter)&geocode=CTvbGja6WzwLFXXizAIdk_Ss-CHZfhpnGCOs8g&dirflg=&saddr=McCleary,+WA&f=d&gl=us&dq=1623+73rd+Avenue+Southeast,+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+ 98501&sll=46.981749,-122.882925&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11

There are 3 lakes near by: Lake Susan; Munn Lake and Trails End Lake: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1623+73rd+Avenue+Southeast,+%23+A,+Olympia,+WA+9 8501&sll=46.982214,-122.877016&sspn=0.012736,0.025063&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1623+73rd+Ave+SE,+Olympia,+Thurston,+Washing ton+98501&ll=46.98482,-122.878475&spn=0.025471,0.050125&t=h&z=14

Salem

Great idea!

[seventeenseconds]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

WOW Salem...great point....does anyone out there think he had an accomplice? And some killers go back to where the body of there victims are for who knows what ungodly reason....i want to see the cell phone records for august and sept too...

[Salem]

Rock Candy Mountain
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Black+Lake+Camp+Olympia+WA&sll=47.152335,-123.16477&sspn=0.874139,2.469177&ie=UTF8&hq=Black+Lake+Camp&hnear=Olympia,+WA&ll=46.999339,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

i found some pics on i believe is dales relitives, cause they live in the same area and they share the same last name.....

there were pics of mudding up in the forest and under one of the pics it mentioned rock candy mountian....and i looked it up.....

something to look into.....its in the capital forest area....18 miles from McCleary and straight shot on highway 8

Google map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Rock+Candy+Mountain&daddr=McCleary,+WA&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=47.004841,-123.090477&sspn=0.101844,0.2005&ie=UTF8&ll=47.059013,-123.179998&spn=0.203481,0.401001&t=h&z=11 Looks like it is about 47 minutes from McCleary.

Salem

[seventeenseconds]

What about the area of the second job he was working, is that too far away to be a possibility. Also thought about whether a spiked soft drink was offered?

spiked Monster beverage ala melissa huckaby

[seventeenseconds]

wow...just had a thought....my kids all kinda know eachothers myspace passwords....maybe "alice" or dale had Lindsey's myspace password...jat

[Salem]

I posted this last night cause I think this may be where he worked. If you look at the pics it's quite beautiful. Didn't know it was so close to McCleary. Dale Golden is Jewish (I think) and this would be a place he might work, not for the religion but for other reasons. mho

I didn't mean to duplicate your work eyes - I guess I missed your post? Sorry. It does look beautiful. Golden does sound like a Jewish name.

I wish we knew for sure exactly where he worked.

Salem

[Salem]

Great idea!

Done. You can see it here: Where was DG 6/26 to 8/26/2009? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Salem

[seventeenseconds]

I posted this last night cause I think this may be where he worked. If you look at the pics it's quite beautiful. Didn't know it was so close to McCleary. Dale Golden is Jewish (I think) and this would be a place he might work, not for the religion but for other reasons. mho

i dont remember hearing that DG was Jewish...where did you hear that from?

[Salem]

i dont remember hearing that DG was Jewish...where did you hear that from?

I think this is just speculation based on his name. Eyes - correct me if I'm wrong here.

Salem

[seventeenseconds]

I think this is just speculation based on his name. Eyes - correct me if I'm wrong here.

Salem

i just think that its kinda weird because i grew up back east with a large Jewish population...moved here to WA and been here 10 years...and yes i am serious...i have yet too meet a Jewish person...weird

[eyes4crime]

I didn't mean to duplicate your work eyes - I guess I missed your post? Sorry. It does look beautiful. Golden does sound like a Jewish name.

I wish we knew for sure exactly where he worked.

Salem

Salem - you didn't duplicate my work at all. I posted all the youth camps in Olympia that I could find. That's the one I thought he would be working at. Nobody picked up on it last night as being a valid idea. We should all duplicated each other's work, things go so fast, I miss tons.

Regarding him being Jewish: I'm not sure now, somehow I got the idea his entire family is. I'm sure they weren't practicing the Jewish religion, but I guess I thought Dale Golder would use that possibility or opportunity to work in a Jewish camp ( I see Dale Golder as an opportunist). Sorry for the thought - it may not be true at all. I honestly can't remember what gave he that thought. :blushing:

[A_Closer_Look]

Are there any locals who are familiar with the exact location of the Capitol Forest fire on July 3rd that was ultimately ruled arson?

I think I remember it being further east than the places we're looking at right now, but I am not 100% positive.

Thanks in advance!


ETA - found this http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/adventure/2009/07/05/p43197

[eyes4crime]

i just think that its kinda weird because i grew up back east with a large Jewish population...moved here to WA and been here 10 years...and yes i am serious...i have yet too meet a Jewish person...weird

when I researched the name Golder in Seattle, Olympia etc - the back ground checks came back as the person being Jewish. Maybe that's where I got the idea. Sorry.

[Salem]

Well I agree about your thought that DG is an opportunist.

Salem

O/T - I'm calling it a night. Busy day tomorrow and my eyes are crossing here. See you all tomorrow!

[seventeenseconds]

i should know this but is there a search planned for tomorrow?

[TakeNote]

Are there any locals who are familiar with the exact location of the Capitol Forest fire on July 3rd that was ultimately ruled arson?

I think I remember it being further east than the places we're looking at right now, but I am not 100% positive.

Thanks in advance!


ETA - found this http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/adventure/2009/07/05/p43197http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/902049.html#


The blaze started about 3 p.m. Friday in a remote section of Capitol State Forest, off a logging road about a half-mile from the Fall Creek Campground.

[Jules71]

i should know this but is there a search planned for tomorrow?

As far as I know, yes 9 am.

[seventeenseconds]

gonna try to be there :)

[yosande]

From Affidavit: The investigator contacted _____Supervisor at the youth camp. She stated that Golder was not working on the night of June 26, 2009. When asked if she was certain, she said she was because she had suspended Golder for two weeks prior to June 26, 2009 for misbehavior. She said she had been involved in a traffic collision and could not walk. She said while she was recuperating at home other employees in the camp kitchen telephoned her and complained that Golder was not doing his work and was being disruptive. She said she telephoned him and told him to go home for two weeks until she could return. She said she told him he needed to take that time to think about whatever he really wanted to work at the camp or not. She stated that she had sent Golder home for a shift at a time without pay in the past for misbehavior. Golder later confirmed that he had been suspended from June 7, 2008 through June 27, 2009. He returned to working at the camp on June 28, 2009.

I have been gone for awhile, so please forgive ignorant questions.
Is it noted anywhere that when he returned to work on June 28 that he looked as though he had scratches on his face, or arms?
I ask this b/c Lindsey's mom said Lindsey would have fought, and that she had long fingernails. tia

[scandi]

I have been gone for awhile, so please forgive ignorant questions.
Is it noted anywhere that when he returned to work on June 28 that he looked as though he had scratches on his face, or arms?
I ask this b/c Lindsey's mom said Lindsey would have fought, and that she had long fingernails. tia

Oh, It's great to see you again Yosande. ;} I don't remember reading about that except they let him go at the Beehive because of all the publicity. He was due to go back to the camp on July 29th and haven't heard anymore. I did read he has lost both jobs but it is not verified. xox

[scandi]

This just hit me like a ton of bricks...Fish boy is a landlord! He rents to the guy that is growing tomatoes with him. Fish boy lives in the Shop, correct and rents his house to the other guy? Anyone else here follow our astros? Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LINDSEY BAUM missing McCleary,WA 6/26/09 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4241286&postcount=442)


That is really something to read. Thanks Momtective. Has any thought been given to where she was put?

[momtective]

This just hit me like a ton of bricks...Fish boy is a landlord! He rents to the guy that is growing tomatoes with him. Fish boy lives in the Shop, correct and rents his house to the other guy? Anyone else here follow our astros? Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LINDSEY BAUM missing McCleary,WA 6/26/09 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4241286&postcount=442)

Sorry, I have made a mistake and need some help deciphering this portion of the Affidavit. I don't know who the Landlord is, who the tenant is or who Ralk is. Here's the link to the pdf Affidavit http://www.kirotv.com/download/2009/1002/21186351.pdf
Red is an assumption on my part. This is very confusing.

On 08-26-08 investigators saw Golder in McCleary and contacted his about this case. He was asked to relate everything he had done from the time he got up on 06-26-09. He wrote a brief paragraph about going to a neighbor’s house Brinton Bowen’s next door and planting tomatoes and having a BBQ. He said he went home about 9:00pm to watch television, but “passed out” and woke up in the morning. He claimed that he had been home and had not been in the town of McCleary that night. He claimed not to know Lindsey Baum and had never seen her before.


Further investigation revealed that _________dy (Hardy as in Marc Hardy 1XX N Sand Creek Rd McCleary, WA 98557-9403 name search provides address)
resides in a shop on his (Brenton or Hardy's not sure which one's) property outside of the town of McCleary. He rents the house on the property to a subject named ???????? either Brenton rents to Hardy or Hardy rent to Brenton), Hardy or Brenton was interviewed and it was learned that he planted his garden near a garden that Golder had planted. Both gardens are located between the house and the shop on the property. Brenton Bowen or Hardy? stated that he had planted his garden the last week of May or the first week of June. He said that Golder had planted his garden weeks before he did. When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golders, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder at(looks to be the top of the letter “H” Hardy’s) shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates ______ sometimes _____________- _______________ Dale had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with Dale or whoever lives in the shop being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described (Could be Hardy, Brenton Bowen or Dale but I don't think it's Dale) as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

Investigators interviewed the guy with mental issues???. He stated that he had a BBQ on 06-26-09. He said Golder and a woman named Stephanie??? had attended. Investigators believed she had been at Ellensburg, on 06-26-09 when Golder was present. She agreed to meet with investigators in person for an interview.

So Stephanie Calica was in McCleary on June 26th!

Y'all please elp me figure this out.

[seventeenseconds]

Sorry, I have made a mistake and need some help deciphering this portion of the Affidavit. I don't know who the Landlord is, who the tenant is or who Ralk is. Here's the link to the pdf Affidavit http://www.kirotv.com/download/2009/1002/21186351.pdf
Red is an assumption on my part. This is very confusing.

On 08-26-08 investigators saw Golder in McCleary and contacted his about this case. He was asked to relate everything he had done from the time he got up on 06-26-09. He wrote a brief paragraph about going to a neighbor’s house Brinton Bowen’s next door and planting tomatoes and having a BBQ. He said he went home about 9:00pm to watch television, but “passed out” and woke up in the morning. He claimed that he had been home and had not been in the town of McCleary that night. He claimed not to know Lindsey Baum and had never seen her before.


Further investigation revealed that _________dy (Hardy as in Marc Hardy 1XX N Sand Creek Rd McCleary, WA 98557-9403 name search provides address)
resides in a shop on his (Brenton or Hardy's not sure which one's) property outside of the town of McCleary. He rents the house on the property to a subject named ???????? either Brenton rents to Hardy or Hardy rent to Brenton), Hardy or Brenton was interviewed and it was learned that he planted his garden near a garden that Golder had planted. Both gardens are located between the house and the shop on the property. Brenton Bowen or Hardy? stated that he had planted his garden the last week of May or the first week of June. He said that Golder had planted his garden weeks before he did. When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golders, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder at(looks to be the top of the letter “H” Hardy’s) shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates ______ sometimes _____________- _______________ Dale had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with Dale or whoever lives in the shop being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described (Could be Hardy, Brenton Bowen or Dale but I don't think it's Dale) as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

Investigators interviewed the guy with mental issues???. He stated that he had a BBQ on 06-26-09. He said Golder and a woman named Stephanie??? had attended. Investigators believed she had been at Ellensburg, on 06-26-09 when Golder was present. She agreed to meet with investigators in person for an interview.

So Stephanie Calica was in McCleary on June 26th!

Y'all please elp me figure this out.

unless the guy who was kinda mental was directed to give those answers by DG

[scandi]

Sorry, I have made a mistake and need some help deciphering this portion of the Affidavit. I don't know who the Landlord is, who the tenant is or who Ralk is. Here's the link to the pdf Affidavit http://www.kirotv.com/download/2009/1002/21186351.pdf
Red is an assumption on my part. This is very confusing.

On 08-26-08 investigators saw Golder in McCleary and contacted his about this case. He was asked to relate everything he had done from the time he got up on 06-26-09. He wrote a brief paragraph about going to a neighbor’s house Brinton Bowen’s next door and planting tomatoes and having a BBQ. He said he went home about 9:00pm to watch television, but “passed out” and woke up in the morning. He claimed that he had been home and had not been in the town of McCleary that night. He claimed not to know Lindsey Baum and had never seen her before.


Further investigation revealed that _________dy (Hardy as in Marc Hardy 1XX N Sand Creek Rd McCleary, WA 98557-9403 name search provides address)
resides in a shop on his (Brenton or Hardy's not sure which one's) property outside of the town of McCleary. He rents the house on the property to a subject named ???????? either Brenton rents to Hardy or Hardy rent to Brenton), Hardy or Brenton was interviewed and it was learned that he planted his garden near a garden that Golder had planted. Both gardens are located between the house and the shop on the property. Brenton Bowen or Hardy? stated that he had planted his garden the last week of May or the first week of June. He said that Golder had planted his garden weeks before he did. When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golders, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder at(looks to be the top of the letter “H” Hardy’s) shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates ______ sometimes _____________- _______________ Dale had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with Dale or whoever lives in the shop being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described (Could be Hardy, Brenton Bowen or Dale but I don't think it's Dale) as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

Investigators interviewed the guy with mental issues???. He stated that he had a BBQ on 06-26-09. He said Golder and a woman named Stephanie??? had attended. Investigators believed she had been at Ellensburg, on 06-26-09 when Golder was present. She agreed to meet with investigators in person for an interview.

So Stephanie Calica was in McCleary on June 26th!

Y'all please elp me figure this out.

Hi, I'm really tired, but did notice what I think are two typos in that Affidavit:

1} The beehive is between 5th and 6th on Maple. GH dispatch told me it was between 6th and 7th on the south side of Maple.

2} It said Dale had been suspended from June 7th 2008 until June 29th 2009. We know that can't be right. That could have been a typo. xox

[momtective]

Hi, I'm really tired, but did notice what I think are two typos in that Affidavit:

1} The beehive is between 5th and 6th on Maple. GH dispatch told me it was between 6th and 7th on the south side of Maple.

2} It said Dale had been suspended from June 7th 2008 until June 29th 2009. We know that can't be right. That could have been a typo. xox



Those are not mine...lol...mine are many I'm sure but those are typed just as they are in the Affidavit...

[lizzysf]

Sorry, I have made a mistake and need some help deciphering this portion of the Affidavit. I don't know who the Landlord is, who the tenant is or who Ralk is. Here's the link to the pdf Affidavit http://www.kirotv.com/download/2009/1002/21186351.pdf
Red is an assumption on my part. This is very confusing.

On 08-26-08 investigators saw Golder in McCleary and contacted his about this case. He was asked to relate everything he had done from the time he got up on 06-26-09. He wrote a brief paragraph about going to a neighbor’s house Brinton Bowen’s next door and planting tomatoes and having a BBQ. He said he went home about 9:00pm to watch television, but “passed out” and woke up in the morning. He claimed that he had been home and had not been in the town of McCleary that night. He claimed not to know Lindsey Baum and had never seen her before.


Further investigation revealed that _________dy (Hardy as in Marc Hardy 1XX N Sand Creek Rd McCleary, WA 98557-9403 name search provides address)
resides in a shop on his (Brenton or Hardy's not sure which one's) property outside of the town of McCleary. He rents the house on the property to a subject named ???????? either Brenton rents to Hardy or Hardy rent to Brenton), Hardy or Brenton was interviewed and it was learned that he planted his garden near a garden that Golder had planted. Both gardens are located between the house and the shop on the property. Brenton Bowen or Hardy? stated that he had planted his garden the last week of May or the first week of June. He said that Golder had planted his garden weeks before he did. When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golders, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder at(looks to be the top of the letter “H” Hardy’s) shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates ______ sometimes _____________- _______________ Dale had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with Dale or whoever lives in the shop being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described (Could be Hardy, Brenton Bowen or Dale but I don't think it's Dale) as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur.

Investigators interviewed the guy with mental issues???. He stated that he had a BBQ on 06-26-09. He said Golder and a woman named Stephanie??? had attended. Investigators believed she had been at Ellensburg, on 06-26-09 when Golder was present. She agreed to meet with investigators in person for an interview.

So Stephanie Calica was in McCleary on June 26th!

Y'all please elp me figure this out.
I doubt she was in McCleary on the 26th..I bet he is confused about the date.. She was probably at his house during the time she was known to be in McCleary.

[kbitar]

This guy gets nervous with people driving near his house. He lives around a lot of trees and areas he would be familiar with. I wonder how well that area has been searched around the property line?

[not_my_kids]

Useless observation warning:
I find it hard to believe the POI never even saw Lindsey like he says. I mean, McCleary isn't that large and they both live there. You would expect him to at least know the name, at least the last name. I don't know, it just seems like a guilty party's blanket denial of everything. MOO

[Salem]

I doubt she was in McCleary on the 26th..I bet he is confused about the date.. She was probably at his house during the time she was known to be in McCleary.

I don't know about this. In the affidavit, she originally said she had not see DG since 2002. After more discussion, she admitted that she had been in McCleary during July.

The one thing that does backup that she was NOT there are the 50 plus phone calls/texts to her number on June 26th that stopped at 9:26 p.m. So, if this is not SC, then it may be interesting to find out who it was and if the woman lived anywhere near 5th, 6th, Maple or Mommsen Streets.

Maybe he gave the woman a ride home and that is how he saw Lindsey on her own?

Salem

[lizzysf]

I don't know about this. In the affidavit, she originally said she had not see DG since 2002. After more discussion, she admitted that she had been in McCleary during July.

The one thing that does backup that she was NOT there are the 50 plus phone calls/texts to her number on June 26th that stopped at 9:26 p.m. So, if this is not SC, then it may be interesting to find out who it was and if the woman lived anywhere near 5th, 6th, Maple or Mommsen Streets.

Maybe he gave the woman a ride home and that is how he saw Lindsey on her own?

Salem When I read the affidavit I took it to mean that before seeing him in July she hadn't seen him since 2002. Not that she lied about seeing him. :waitasec: Now that I read it again....it does seem to open that to question.. Did she talk to LE more than once though and later tell them she had since seen him in July? (and she actually hadn't seen him since 2002 during her first talks with LE?...who knows) Sketchy details.

[Jules71]

With all the lies by SC and DG, and all the weird stuff on the other forum about posting the SW and explanations... I just feel in my gut he is the one responsible.

One thing tho is that if SC did tell LE what DG said to her the day after Lindsey went missing - why would they still be involved with eachother? - which IMO they still are (if you read her moods on myspace).

[coastal]

Who does Fish run with, when he isn't working around children or old folks? Does he have some pals who share his interest in cars? Wonder what he does when he isn't working? And, with whom?



(edited for stupidity)

[Jules71]

Just thinking.... is it possible for the public to go to the court and get a copy of the complete sw and affidavit without all the names blanked out? Did the media blank them out, or is that the way it is given to the public?

[Knox]

I doubt she was in McCleary on the 26th..I bet he is confused about the date.. She was probably at his house during the time she was known to be in McCleary.

DG's MS has a message from SC on 06/26/09 at 7:30 saying Hi (siting from memory may not be exact). Don't think it was she at the BBQ with DG, timeline doesn't fit.

[Jules71]

DG's MS has a message from SC on 06/26/09 at 7:30 saying Hi (siting from memory may not be exact). Don't think it was she at the BBQ with DG, timeline doesn't fit.

Yes, it was on 6/26 at 6:59 pm and she says "Hi, You".

I do not believe she is the one at the BBQ.

[TakeNote]

im not good at looking up address, and such

so i cant link the info that i found out....and need someone to connect the dots for me :biggrin:

dale's girlfiends myspace had a comment form travis t and about dales name walters changing ......i believe travis t is dales cousin....i believe his mom is tena's sister-inlaw....and they live accross the street from each other.....could someone look up the parcel and such to say....yes....that is correct :)

her last name is the color of a cloud w*it*
first namw starts with t
:)

[Jules71]

TW is on Old Sand Creek Rd and is 1.5 miles from TG.

[TakeNote]

TW is on Old Sand Creek Rd and is 1.5 miles from TG.

thank you.....that is not accross the street.....does it look like the person who is across the street....with a last name that starts with t?

[TakeNote]

maybe her ex that still lives there...travis's dad?

[TakeNote]

and by the way.....that was super fast info :)

[Jules71]

I am trying to paste the parcel map here. It won't show up....

[scandi]

Those are not mine...lol...mine are many I'm sure but those are typed just as they are in the Affidavit...

No, I didn't think they were your typos but rather the secy in the prosecutor's office. ;}

[Jules71]

TW is actually one parcel over from TG even tho it is 1.5 miles.

http://www.ghc-gis.org/output/ParcelSearch_GHCSQL1920107614005.jpg

TG owns the properties ending with 040 and 050. 040 is the house they live in. 050 is the vacant run-down house with shop.

[TakeNote]

TW is actually one parcel over from TG even tho it is 1.5 miles.

oh wow.....like a large amount of land then? so they would be considered accross from each other?

thank you again for looking that up :)

[scandi]

With all the lies by SC and DG, and all the weird stuff on the other forum about posting the SW and explanations... I just feel in my gut he is the one responsible.

One thing tho is that if SC did tell LE what DG said to her the day after Lindsey went missing - why would they still be involved with eachother? - which IMO they still are (if you read her moods on myspace).

You probably already have an answer Jules, but I thought he told SC he had heard this from someone else as to what they had done to Lindsey. That would not be implicating himself in any way, just as a messenger. xox IMO

[Jules71]

oh wow.....like a large amount of land then? so they would be considered accross from each other?

thank you again for looking that up :)

Yes, the one ending in 020 is TW. Both husband and wife listed on parcel info.

[TakeNote]

i wonder if their place has been searched? not that they had anything to do with it...but he could have had access to the property.....i wonder if they were gone at all .....like vacation or anything....hmm

[Jules71]

You probably already have an answer Jules, but I thought he told SC he had heard this from someone else as to what they had done to Lindsey. That would not be implicating himself in any way, just as a messenger. xox IMO

DG told SC that he heard she was murdered and dismembered??? I thought DG told SC that?

[Jules71]

Can you guys see the map I posted. I can, but then it was just an X and now I can see it again???

[Jules71]

I have to go sell popcorn for Cub Scouts - be back later.

[TakeNote]

Can you guys see the map I posted. I can, but then it was just an X and now I can see it again???

yes....thank you!!! i do much better when i can see a map....you are awesome!!

oh...pop corn sounds good :)

[Jules71]

DG told SC that he heard she was murdered and dismembered??? I thought DG told SC that?

I just looked at the sw again, and it seems pretty clear that DG is the one who said this to SC. It doesn't say on there that he heard that from someone else.

[elepher50]

TW is actually one parcel over from TG even tho it is 1.5 miles.

http://www.ghc-gis.org/output/ParcelSearch_GHCSQL1920107614005.jpg

TG owns the properties ending with 040 and 050. 040 is the house they live in. 050 is the vacant run-down house with shop.

Here is a pix of the lots in relation to one another:

[TakeNote]

Here is a pix of the lots in relation to one another:

thank you! :)

[scandi]

DG told SC that he heard she was murdered and dismembered??? I thought DG told SC that?

Yes, that is what I thought too but I went to look it up in the Affidavit:

" . . . She said that Golder had talked to her the day after the girl was reported missing and that he was very concerned about something like this happening in his town. She said that when she spoke to him the day after this was reported (she believed it was Saturday or early Sunday 29/07-2009) Golder told her he could not believe that a girl had been taken and cut up and dismembered".

Then as the Affidavit reads, DG and SC had conversations thru the month of July where she said he obsessed about Lindsey. Gee, you would think she would get the idea something was not normal with him! IMO


eta: Now I see my mistake Jules, as it doesn't say someone told him this. That is very interesting, eh? Thanks

[Knox]

Can someone PM me the names on that property record? Do we know the name of the renter also?

[scandi]

Here is a pix of the lots in relation to one another:


Thanks Elepher, Can you clarify for me:

* Which house is on that tax lot you show on your map owned by TG?

* And the second tax lot owned by TG {et all} that lies adjacent to the south of the one you show on your map is where the other house is. On that tax lot is the other house which was searched all the way on the west side of the property where there is more road frontage? There is a chunk taken out of that second tax lot TG owns that has quite a bit of road frontage.

Thanks

[elepher50]

Thanks Elepher, Can you clarify for me:

* Which house is on that tax lot you show on your map owned by TG?

* And the second tax lot owned by TG {et all} that lies adjacent to the south of the one you show on your map is where the other house is. On that tax lot is the other house which was searched all the way on the west side of the property where there is more road frontage? There is a chunk taken out of that second tax lot TG owns that has quite a bit of road frontage.

Thanks

Will do in a sec - will do a better pix and repost. The house on the tax lot belongs to RW and TW (TW being the person that is pizzed in SC's ms comment section).

[momtective]

Can someone PM me the names on that property record? Do we know the name of the renter also?

The renter is either Brenton Bowen or Marc Hardy. Is either of them on the land parcels?...Never mind, I looked and they are not.

[scandi]

The renter is either Brenton Bowen or Marc Hardy. Is either of them on the land parcels?


I found it interesting they left some in like the ones you posted and Stephanie's, but left out the name of the gal he went with to the BBQ! What is up with that?

[elepher50]

This is a satelite view of the two properties:

20 Old Sand Creek Road = Parcel 180523230020 = RW and TW

149 Foreman Road = Parcels 180523230040A and 180523230040B = TG

Not sure this is helping as the maps at the assessment site will not let me zoom in even though it is shown as a feature so the old run down house is not showing and I will be Danged ...

just noticed that the Parcel 180523230040B on the assessment site used to show that old house with the dog in the driveway along with the boat - guess what - it doesn't show that picture any more. I swear that picture was on the assessment site before - now isn't that odd that the pix has been removed.

Not sure if I am helping or hindering at this point - going to see if I snagged a pix of the old house before the pix was taken down.

Geezzzzeeeeeeeeeeee

[elepher50]

The renter is either Brenton Bowen or Marc Hardy. Is either of them on the land parcels?...Never mind, I looked and they are not.

Brinton Bowen is listed on white pages as being at 149 Foreman.

[TravelingBug]

According to the other site, TW is the SIL to TG. Not sure if I missed that in reading here, or if that's not been said here also. (Several sources there are saying that, although now I guess TW is saying that's not true - it seems another rant was posted on MS...so who knows)

[momtective]

Brinton Bowen is listed on white pages as being at 149 Foreman.

149 is T Golder's property where Dale lives. So who lives in the danm shop? Marc, Dale, or Brenton? Marc Hardy is listed at 173 N Sand Creek Rd...isn't that strange if they are neighbors?

[elepher50]

149 is T Golder's property where Dale lives. So who lives in the danm shop? Marc, Dale, or Brenton? Marc Hardy is listed at 173 N Sand Creek Rd...isn't that strange if they are neighbors?

We will have to peel the layers on this one a bit me thinks. I am going to poke around a bit .......

[elepher50]

173 Sand Creek Rd looks like a rental property as the land is registered to a couple who reside in Olympia (TJK and NK). So it is likely that Marc Hardy is the renter based on the address given for Marc. And the property is next to TG.

Hope this helps a little bit.

[Knox]

173 Sand Creek Rd looks like a rental property as the land is registered to a couple who reside in Olympia (TJK and NK). So it is likely that Marc Hardy is the renter based on the address given for Marc. And the property is next to TG.

Hope this helps a little bit.

Thanks Elepher50!

So who was LE referring to in the PCA, besides MH? MH is the one who may have mental health issues? Who told the Detective that?

[scandi]

173 Sand Creek Rd looks like a rental property as the land is registered to a couple who reside in Olympia (TJK and NK). So it is likely that Marc Hardy is the renter based on the address given for Marc. And the property is next to TG.

Hope this helps a little bit.

Thanks for that Elepher and to Jules as well. It is now starting to fall into place. xox

[elepher50]

Thanks for that Elepher and to Jules as well. It is now starting to fall into place. xox

LOL .... I am as lost as ever but can do searches and put up map pix - glad it is helping with this puzzle.

It would be my best deduction at this point that the person renting the shop at 149 Foreman is Brinton Bowen (born in 1980) who was living in a place called Bonney Lake in November 2008. Note the name is Brinton and not Brenton.

[elepher50]

Marc Hardy owns his own business:

Marc Hardy
173 N Sand Creek Rd
McCleary, WA 98557-9403
Job: All American Concrete Line Pumping , Owner

[Knox]

LOL .... I am as lost as ever but can do searches and put up map pix - glad it is helping with this puzzle.

It would be my best deduction at this point that the person renting the shop at 149 Foreman is Brinton Bowen (born in 1980) who was living in a place called Bonney Lake in November 2008. Note the name is Brinton and not Brenton.

I wonder if MH's middle initial is T and he has links to Aberdeen?

[elepher50]

Is the name Tiffany ringing any bells with anybody who has been following Lindsey's case closer than I have?? Just wondering ...........

[elepher50]

I wonder if MH's middle initial is T and he has links to Aberdeen?

Thomas me thinks .. not sure about links to Aberdeen.

[Knox]

Is Bonney Lake near Lakewood? Ringing a bell with me for some reason.

[Knox]

Thomas me thinks .. not sure about links to Aberdeen.

I come up with one record on this individual, have a dob.

[lizzysf]

One thing I have found odd in my snooping thru Myspace .. I have identified several extended family members and close family association profiles which have DG's mother, brother etc. on friends list....but not DG. Wonder if he was removed from some? or was never added? Probable Uncle Golder.. mood was set the day before yesterday to "betrayed" and his 3 sons moods now say sad, depressed....although one says "evil"... Name search reveals related to Dale. I believe the 3 sons are dale's cousins.

[elepher50]

Marc Hardy used to live at the same address as the folks in Olympia who now own the property that Marc Hardy is residing at .... 173 Sand Creek Road. Marc was born in July 1955. And it is Marc T. Hardy.

[elepher50]

Is Bonney Lake near Lakewood? Ringing a bell with me for some reason.

About 1 hour 9 minutes from McCleary to Bonney Lake. Here is a bing map:

ETA: Yes, Lakewood is on the way to Bonney Lake from McCleary.

[Destiney]

Why am I thinking he worked in the kitchen at the camp? I saw that somewhere...I think. :crazy:
:doh: it's right there in the post I just made from the affidavit.

Wasn't that information from the search warrant which was released.

[momtective]

These are the people mentioned in the SW
Marc Hardy
Brinton Bowen
Ralke

Marc Hardy & a female last name Smith live at 173 N Sand Creek Rd
Marc is Owner of All American Concrete Line Pumping per 411.com
On the parcel search the property is owned by TJ & NK K******

Brinton Bowen has 2 addresses listed
1513 State Route 8 E and 149 Foreman (could be before and after 911 address)

Golder lives at 149 Foreman with mom TG & dad DC or CD Golder.
TG owns parcels 180523230050 185 Sand Creek Rd and 180523230040A & 180523230040B both properties list 149 FOREMAN RD as the address. TG owns 3 properties total.

I'm thinking the Ralke is actually a mistake. I think the name MARC was said to and misunderstood by the typist of the Affidavit.

These are pics of the property at 173 Sand Creek Rd
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/173SandCreekRd3.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/173SandCreekRd2.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/173SandCreekRd1.jpg

Notice there is a shop on this property.

The property on Sand Creek Rd owned by T Golder is probably next door to the property at 173 Sand Creek. Here are pics of that property at 185 Sand Creek Rd
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/180523230050A99.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/180523230050A97.jpg

And here are pictures of the property at 149 Foreman Rd---owned by T Golder. This is where T Golder lives.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/2ndproperty1.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/2ndproperty2.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/2ndproperty3.jpg

The property directly behind this property (parcel 180523310000) is owned by PORT BLAKELY TREE FARMS I've used that property to screen cap this map and added residence markers
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/Goodmap.jpg

[momtective]

Wasn't that information from the search warrant which was released.

Sure was...lol silly me!
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Pretty%20Stuff/WELCOME.png

[coastal]

Marc Hardy owns his own business:

Marc Hardy
173 N Sand Creek Rd
McCleary, WA 98557-9403
Job: All American Concrete Line Pumping , Owner
My bold.
That's convenient, eh?

[momtective]

My bold.
That's convenient, eh?

I know...I don't even want to think about it.

[elepher50]

I'm thinking the Ralke is actually a mistake. I think the name MARC was said to and misunderstood by the typist of the Affidavit.


Post most respectfully snipped for space. I am thinking that they forgot to put a y on the end of that name .......... Ralkey instead of Ralke.

Just a thought.

ETA: As in J. Ralkey on 1st Street McCleary

[momtective]

Post most respectfully snipped for space. I am thinking that they forgot to put a y on the end of that name .......... Ralkey instead of Ralke.

Just a thought.

ETA: As in J. Ralkey on 1st Street McCleary

You just might be right!

[TakeNote]

LOL .... I am as lost as ever but can do searches and put up map pix - glad it is helping with this puzzle.

It would be my best deduction at this point that the person renting the shop at 149 Foreman is Brinton Bowen (born in 1980) who was living in a place called Bonney Lake in November 2008. Note the name is Brinton and not Brenton.

you are helping a lot!

our posters are all awesome! we are what w/s is all about.....we all come together...... from differnt walks of the earth..... to help find a missing little girl....we all have are own abilities and we all combine them together..... the possibilities are endless....and we could help find Lindsey!!