POI - Dale Golder #2

[Salem]

Please continue here.

1st Thread


Mikeb's picture of Forman Road: http://www.vp-photo.com/photos/mccleary/091006_0231.jpg (Thanks Mike!)



Salem

Picture of the dude: http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/l_5c20e6aea92aa6e614b88e581dfd8a28.jpg (thanks Christine!)

[Kimster]

TY Salem!

Another thing Salem has done today is direct me to a thread all about SS: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65398&page=10

We can discuss her there. Please keep praying for protection over her and whatever she is doing! :blowkiss:

[Track292008]

I've been awaya from my computer for a while and are now trying to skim through the messages to get caught up. Excellent coverage here!

I've gotten straightened out on some things, but I do have a couple of questions about this Dale Golder. I'm not sure on what his relationship was with Melissa B. and/or Lindsey. I've read references to possible stalking of Melissa, both before and after Lindsey's disappearance. Did they have any other relationship, like was he a family friend or at least acquaiintance? And, if so, were they on good terms? How old is he?

I agree with Mysticrose's theory that he might have offered Liindsey a ride that night and then just kept on driving. But with a kid who's third generation in that area, I also agree that she could be anywhere because of his familiarity with the area and its vastness.

Also, didn't his gf say he had to go to work (at a youth camp) that night at 10 o'clock? o'clock. Has that been verified? I very mujch appreciate your updates. TIA. And MOO.

[TakeNote]

i tried to bring a couple things over......my first time....lets see if it work :)

but to answer a couple of you about where dale might have went to hang out with his friends....i did find a pic under one of his friends myspace....i will have to go look for it again....but i remember it was at Candy Mountain in or near Capital forest.....we even had maped it out....i will see if i can bring it over from the other thread....:)

here are a couple of posts.....i dont know how to bring over the post from the other thread....:)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4241762&highlight=candy+mountain#post4241762

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4241707&highlight=candy+mountain#post4241707

[mikeb]

Please continue here.

1st Thread (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89778)

Salem

Picture of the dude: http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/l_5c20e6aea92aa6e614b88e581dfd8a28.jpg (thanks Christine!)

What a disgusting picture. ....clip....
Grrrrrr.

[Kimster]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimster
No kidding! Who owns all the land around the properties? Do they own acres and acres? Can the area around them be searched?

Because the car has already been returned, I have a feeling if he is the perp, he took her to a place where he left her. That's why I'd like to know where he and his peers liked to go and party. Perhaps she is not around the property, or he had a fave spot in the woods around his home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticrose
Exactly Kimster, we need to find out where he liked to hang out, specifically somewhere that he could get his car to.
He would have to feel real comforable here as well knowing no one would be showing up anytime soon, so I'm not sure it would really be a " Party Place". I do feel he picked her up in that car offered her a ride home, and then just kept driving.
If he is third generation in that town I am sure he knows that place like the back of his hand...knwim..
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosylla
The property on the right? DG's? What's with that huge hole in the ground? (creepy) And...look at all the car tracks that lead into the dense woods. Can searches be done around these properties?
that it a great question....please bring it to the other dale thread....#2 i believe it is....this one is going to close....and i dont want your question to get lost....cause its a good one!!!

[JenniferO]

I've been awaya from my computer for a while and are now trying to skim through the messages to get caught up. Excellent coverage here!

I've gotten straightened out on some things, but I do have a couple of questions about this Dale Golder. I'm not sure on what his relationship was with Melissa B. and/or Lindsey. I've read references to possible stalking of Melissa, both before and after Lindsey's disappearance. Did they have any other relationship, like was he a family friend or at least acquaiintance? And, if so, were they on good terms? How old is he?

It was my understanding until the weekend his property was searched MB did not know who he was. She wasn't told after the following incident on July 31st who it was that was following her all over the place.
DG is 23 years old.


I agree with Mysticrose's theory that he might have offered Liindsey a ride that night and then just kept on driving. But with a kid who's third generation in that area, I also agree that she could be anywhere because of his familiarity with the area and its vastness.

This is so true.

Also, didn't his gf say he had to go to work (at a youth camp) that night at 10 o'clock? o'clock. Has that been verified? I very mujch appreciate your updates. TIA. And MOO.
I don't know where the gf thought he was going to work at. I don't remember that ever being mentioned. But it has been shown that he didn't work any job that night.

[lizzysf]

What a disgusting picture. If you weren't disgusted before you will be after reading this. Notice where the picture was taken. Shower curtain? Bathroom. Shot taken into the mirror. Notice the dropped position of his right shoulder. He's reaching down. We got the clean photo from this photo shoot.
Grrrrrr.
I see where you are going with this...eww..but wouldn't his shoulder be raised just because he is holding up his arm holding the camera? 50-50 on that one..

[Kimster]

What a disgusting picture. If you weren't disgusted before you will be after reading this. Notice where the picture was taken. Shower curtain? Bathroom. Shot taken into the mirror. Notice the dropped position of his right shoulder. He's reaching down. We got the clean photo from this photo shoot.
Grrrrrr.

Even though he is my number one suspect, I have to clue everyone in on these MySpace pics. My son and his friends have often taken shots in the bathroom just for the need of a mirror. It is quite common and I don't think it has anything to do with being nasty.

JMOO

[Knox]

Think SC stated DG had to work that night in the PCA? Pretty sure that's where that statement came from. So Jen, MB did/does not know the G Family? Do we think Lindsey would know any of them?

[JenniferO]

Knox, as far as what MB has said she does not know the G family.

I don't know if Lindsey would have or not. It's possible since he worked at the Bee Hive and so did her friends mom. I can see Lindsey going in there and hanging out talking. Maybe even becoming friendly with a few of the residents (let me make it clear that this is my opinion. No one has ever said if Lindsey ever went into the Beehive for any reason. I'm just saying I could see where a child like her could do it.. as she seems to me to be a friendly outgoing girl)

[lizzysf]

Lindsey may be familiar w/ him from visiting the Beehive, and DG worked there with her friends mother.

[Knox]

Ok so we do have a possible link between DG and Lindsey. Understood that this not confirmed, just a logical conclusion. Jen can you think of a way AG would have had a connection with her?

[JenniferO]

Ok so we do have a possible link between DG and Lindsey. Understood that this not confirmed, just a logical conclusion. Jen can you think of a way AG would have had a connection with her?

No, I can't think of any way. Maybe a friend of hers has an older sibling that hangs out with AG and they've met that way? (again. MOO)

[TakeNote]

forgot to say good morning!....im so glad to see you all today :)

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/KimCandy2/Hello/29dgrj5.gif

[TakeNote]

I havent seen yet....but could have missed it yesterday....how old is AG?

[JenniferO]

19 years old according to his MS

[mikeb]

Even though he is my number one suspect, I have to clue everyone in on these MySpace pics. My son and his friends have often taken shots in the bathroom just for the need of a mirror. It is quite common and I don't think it has anything to do with being nasty.

JMOO

OK, let's go with that. Creepy enough already. Let's jsut say I have an attitude.

[scandi]

Lindsey may be familiar w/ him from visiting the Beehive, and DG worked there with her friends mother.

Plus in the Affidavit it says many of the staff and residents knew who she was as she often walked past the Center to and from the Camdan house.

[Knox]

MikeB in that photo you took of Foreman Road, did you see any commercial trucks or trailers, cargo vans, etc. on the property? Something to indicate someone is in the trucking business?

[scandi]

19 years old according to his MS

So then by Wa State law he is not a minor, right?

[JenniferO]

scandi, correct (but remember.. you can lie about your age on MS. So until someone finds a birthdate I would be careful what is posted)

[mikeb]

MikeB in that photo you took of Foreman Road, did you see any commercial trucks or trailers, cargo vans, etc. on the property? Something to indicate someone is in the trucking business?

When I'm taking pictures I don't notice a lot about what is down there. But I will have lots more pictures before the day is over. You can see for yourself. But I have to go walk dogs now.

[TakeNote]

scandi, correct (but remember.. you can lie about your age on MS. So until someone finds a birthdate I would be careful what is posted)

he did join the Army....so i would think he would at least be 18?

you can join though at 17 with parent permission though....but that doesnt happen to often...:)
they like them to at least try and finish school....:)

[Haddie McFaddies Mom]

Could be through blood relations. You know....DG's family relations. Noticed a maiden name of Vaughn in there somewhere. Also thought I saw some Vaughn MS pages in pretty prominent places. Maybe They're ALL related......

[Kimster]

O/T here because the SS thread is in the basement and I want to send this message on the public forum just in case..........

SS, I DO miss you! Please write and let us know you are okay! {{{HUGS}}}

[JenniferO]

he did join the Army....so i would think he would at least be 18?

you can join though at 17 with parent permission though....but that doesnt happen to often...:)
they like them to at least try and finish school....:)

You must graduate from highschool now in order to be in the military. No grad.. no contract (that's a sticky situation to get into)

My son joined the NG at the age of 17 (junior year of highschool) with permission from his father and I. He went to basic training between his junior and senior years and went to advance training just after graduation.

But, AG had to be 18 to volunteer at the searches in Sept. So.. I would say that he is not a minor.

[scandi]

scandi, correct (but remember.. you can lie about your age on MS. So until someone finds a birthdate I would be careful what is posted)


Yea Jennifer, I agree. I thought we first heard he was 16.

Dern, I have to go to the office but will see you guys later this afternoon.

<<HUGS>>

[elepher50]

Was holding on to this but here it is:

[Salem]

Plus in the Affidavit it says many of the staff and residents knew who she was as she often walked past the Center to and from the Camdan house.

Thanks Scandi! I thought the affidavit referenced a possible Lindsey connection with the Beehive.

Salem

[Jules71]

The 19 yo brother to DG has 2 ms pages. One of them for location says wish it was Fort Knox. I am thinking he is still home.

[Jules71]

The 19 yo brother to DG has 2 ms pages. One of them for location says wish it was Fort Knox. I am thinking he is still home.

I believe the one who didn't make weight so was therefore not deployed on time was the son of the lady who posted angry msgs on SC and DG ms pages. I believe that son is also the one who made the Walters name comment and may have initials TT.

*(I was wrong about this - the one who didn't make weight according to TT was AG.)

[Track292008]

Hi -- and thanks so much for your great and informative responses to my questions!

I have two more questions -- who is AG? Sounds like he may be Dale Golder's brother...is that right? How old is he?

And re: the Beehive. What kind of a job did DG have there? Interesting that Lindsey used to hang out there.

Also wanted to say I noticed upthread that DG camped/partied in the Capitol Forest, and that's where the fire occurred very shortly after Lindsey disappeared. Just a thought! And MOO.

Thanks, again! Very interesting about not deploying....

[Kimster]

AG is DG's younger brother.

[Jules71]

So what are the thoughts/questions we have about Dale's 19 yo brother AG?

He went on one of the Lindsey searches
He didn't or hasn't deployed yet
He is the 4th adult in the Golder home
Does he have a connection to Lindsey?

[Track292008]

So what are the thoughts/questions we have about Dale's 19 yo brother AG?

He went on one of the Lindsey searches
He didn't or hasn't deployed yet
He is the 4th adult in the Golder home
Does he have a connection to Lindsey?

So it's AG who may or may not be deployed, not DG?

[~greeneyedgirl~]

I see where you are going with this...eww..but wouldn't his shoulder be raised just because he is holding up his arm holding the camera? 50-50 on that one..

I honestly believe there is no nastiness to this picture, that is what they do to get the right shot, usually girls tho.... only with cell phones I have noticed as well.

Mark your calenders because I don't think I will defend his actions again, but I just call em as I see em.

[elepher50]

He went on one of the Lindsey searches = yes, confirmed by JVK
He didn't or hasn't deployed yet = not deployed yet as far as we know
He is the 4th adult in the Golder home = yes we believe this to be true
Does he have a connection to Lindsey? = none that we know of right now

[TakeNote]

I believe the one who didn't make weight so was therefore not deployed on time was the son of the lady who posted angry msgs on SC and DG ms pages. I believe that son is also the one who made the Walters name comment and may have initials TT.


TT said her son was Long gone before Lindsey went missing....that is why she was upset....becaue there was some talk about the two boys leaving for the army right after Lindsey went missing

[STEADFAST]

Here's a paraphrase of what was posted at D.G.'s ms page on Oct 3. Remember, this is not a quotation, just what was said in different words.

T.T. is what I am called by posters. I am really angry at you curiosity seekers out there.
My son did not take off just after Lindsey vanished; he went away on Jan 1. He was near Mosul on June 26, so quit telling lies. A.G. had been scheduled to go with the military in July, but he was out of the allowed weight range. We should be focusing on Lindsey!

6 hours later:
Perhaps you could re-read the comment below more carefully and then edit what's on pg 63 or 64 where you discuss TT's DS. For the past few years, my DS has belonged to the military. You're idiots!

[eyes4crime]

From Jules 71 post #4


A little more detail here...

6/7-6/27 Suspended from working at Youth Camp
6/26 12pm – 9:26pm 50+ calls/txts TO SC
6/26 9:30pm Lindsey missing
6/26 10pm Someone spotted DG’s car near Beehive
SC also states he had to go to work at 10
6/27 1:11am & 6:12am Incoming call from SC, then call out to?
6/28 Returned to work at Youth Camp
7/16 Drove to Ellensburg
7/16-7/20 SC stayed in McCleary with DG
7/31 “just after midnight” At work (Beehive) stopped by LE for following MB
8/26 or 8/27 Interviewed by LE? And seen at shop by tomato man

{bolded and I by me}

--According to the time-line Lindsey was last seen 9:15 - 9:30p -

--Did person reporting DG's car SEE or HEAR the car at 10:00p (loud muffler)

--There is 30 -45min from the time Lindsey was last seen at 9:15-9:30p and DG being seen/heard at 10P.

guess it doesn't make sense to me that DG would stay around the crime scene for 30- 45min. An area where he would be known and identified.

If he did this - wondering why he would be so confident in this abduction? Could he have taken Lindsey into an apt. at the Beehive and not be seen? Is there an area around that would ensure him privacy? Was he seen/heard leaving the area? And if he drove away with Lindsey - what did he do for the 30-45 min.? Any ideas????? TIA

[Jules71]

A little more detail here...

6/7-6/27 Suspended from working at Youth Camp
6/26 12pm – 9:26pm 50+ calls/txts TO SC
6/26 9:30pm Lindsey missing
6/26 10pm Someone spotted DG’s car near Beehive
SC also states he had to go to work at 10
6/27 1:11am & 6:12am Incoming call from SC, then call out to?
6/28 Returned to work at Youth Camp
7/16 Drove to Ellensburg
7/16-7/20 SC stayed in McCleary with DG
7/31 “just after midnight” At work (Beehive) stopped by LE for following MB
8/26 or 8/27 Interviewed by LE? And seen at shop by tomato man

From Jules 71 post #4


{bolded and I by me}

--According to the time-line Lindsey was last seen 9:15 - 9:30p -

--Did person reporting DG's car SEE or HEAR the car at 10:00p (loud muffler)

--There is 30 -45min from the time Lindsey was last seen at 9:15-9:30p and DG being seen/heard at 10P.

guess it doesn't make sense to me that DG would stay around the crime scene for 30- 45min. An area where he would be known and identified.

If he did this - wondering why he would be so confident in this abduction? Could he have taken Lindsey into an apt. at the Beehive and not be seen? Is there an area around that would ensure him privacy? Was he seen/heard leaving the area? And if he drove away with Lindsey - what did he do for the 30-45 min.? Any ideas????? TIA

SW states Mentes told investigators he SAW a small white sportscar with loud exhaust.

[eyes4crime]

SW states Mentes told investigators he SAW a small white sportscar with loud exhaust.

That 10P sighting is driving me crazy!!!! What did he do for 30-45 minutes? :banghead:

[nosylla]

Onto the #2 thread... RE: The photo...


The property on the right? DG's? What's with that huge hole in the ground? (creepy) And...look at all the car tracks that lead into the dense woods. Can searches be done around these properties?

[elepher50]

That 10P sighting is driving me crazy!!!! What did he do for 30-45 minutes? :banghead:

:banghead:Bet he just drove around with Lindsey in the car - may have even had a portable DVD for showing porn movies? :furious::banghead:

Question: If Lindsey had been inside that Honda Del Sol the night of June 26th would scent dogs still alert to her scent when the search warrants were executed on the weekend of 26th of September/09 - 3 months later?

[JenniferO]

Onto the #2 thread... RE: The photo...


The property on the right? DG's? What's with that huge hole in the ground? (creepy) And...look at all the car tracks that lead into the dense woods. Can searches be done around these properties?

At first I thought that was a hole too.. almost looks like a pond or a burned area. But then I realized it was the shadow from the tree. lol

[Jules71]

That 10P sighting is driving me crazy!!!! What did he do for 30-45 minutes? :banghead:

Is it possible that DG and his car were already in town parked somewhere (maybe the Beehive) and if he is the perp, took Lindsey somewhere close by on foot (an apt at the Beehive), and then the 10 pm sighting of him was 'leaving' the area?

[eyes4crime]

:banghead:Bet he just drove around with Lindsey in the car - may have even had a portable DVD for showing porn movies? :furious::banghead:

Question: If Lindsey had been inside that Honda Del Sol the night of June 26th would scent dogs still alert to her scent when the search warrants were executed on the weekend of 26th of September/09 - 3 months later?

:banghead::banghead: If he drove around with Lindsey in the car for 30 -45 min. why wasn't he seen by somebody??? Something tells me he wouldn't take the chance of driving around with Lindsey for 30-45 min before he murders her! Even if he was completely stoned...seems to me someone would have seen him. What's around that area that would conceal him?

Hopefully, LE had cadaver dogs in and around the car. Unless he washed his car out with bleach, cadaver dogs would be able to pick up a death scent. mho
mho

[seventeenseconds]

:banghead::banghead: If he drove around with Lindsey in the car for 30 -45 min. why wasn't he seen by somebody??? Something tells me he wouldn't take the chance of driving around with Lindsey for 30-45 min before he murders her! Even if he was completely stoned...seems to me someone would have seen him. What's around that area that would conceal him?

Hopefully, LE had cadaver dogs in and around the car. Unless he washed his car out with bleach, cadaver dogs would be able to pick up a death scent. mho
mho

i hope she is still here with us and not murdered

[elepher50]

:banghead::banghead: If he drove around with Lindsey in the car for 30 -45 min. why wasn't he seen by somebody??? Something tells me he wouldn't take the chance of driving around with Lindsey for 30-45 min before he murders her! Even if he was completely stoned...seems to me someone would have seen him. What's around that area that would conceal him?

Hopefully, LE had cadaver dogs in and around the car. Unless he washed his car out with bleach, cadaver dogs would be able to pick up a death scent. mho
mho

What time was the confirmed sighting by the unnamed person whose initials start with R who was on her way to work that night - was that a 9:45pm sighting? Where is the danged timeline - it is either you or TakeNote that has the timeline - can you point me?

[Salem]

Is it possible that DG and his car were already in town parked somewhere (maybe the Beehive) and if he is the perp, took Lindsey somewhere close by on foot (an apt at the Beehive), and then the 10 pm sighting of him was 'leaving' the area?

Eyes4crime, your post 41 and Jules! Very possible he took her into an empty apt! Who was it that told us the vacant apts had NOT been well searched? Was that JVK?

Salem

[eyes4crime]

Is it possible that DG and his car were already in town parked somewhere (maybe the Beehive) and if he is the perp, took Lindsey somewhere close by on foot (an apt at the Beehive), and then the 10 pm sighting of him was 'leaving' the area?

My question is---How and the heck would he know to wait around for Lindsey? How did he know she would be alone? Was he waiting around near KK's house and saw Lindsey leaving alone?

Next thought: We know from his barricading the girl he babysat for that DG emotionally terrified his victim for two hours...I doubt DG would be happy with all he needed to do in 30-45 minutes. Just my opinions and thoughts

[Knox]

What time was the confirmed sighting by the unnamed person whose initials start with R who was on her way to work that night - was that a 9:45pm sighting? Where is the danged timeline - it is either you or TakeNote that has the timeline - can you point me?

What time did he leave that BBQ that night? 9 ish right? He ha d a girl with him at that BBQ, did he have to take her home? Wasn't that our train of thought at one point? Hence, he saw LB walking and ...

[eyes4crime]

What time was the confirmed sighting by the unnamed person whose initials start with R who was on her way to work that night - was that a 9:45pm sighting? Where is the danged timeline - it is either you or TakeNote that has the timeline - can you point me?

My time line is in the Lindsey threads - it hasn't been changed for quite some time so it reflects Lindsey last seen at 9:45p. I can change it if needed. So much is still under discussion...is there a better place for the time-line? TIA

[JenniferO]

My question is---How and the heck would he know to wait around for Lindsey? How did he know she would be alone? Was he waiting around near KK's house and saw Lindsey leaving alone?

Next thought: We know from his barricading the girl he babysat for that DG emotionally terrified his victim for two hours...I doubt DG would be happy with all he needed to do in 30-45 minutes. Just my opinions and thoughts

I don't think Lindsey was the "target". I think it was a spur of the moment thing. Maybe something "he" has wanted to do for a while but never had the "perfect opportunity". Well Lindseys situation became that "perfect moment" on June 26 and he took it. It could have been Lindsey, MK or any other child in McCleary that night.

MOO

[Knox]

Maybe the reason he told SC he had to go to work that night was he planned to spend some time with the girl from the BBQ. Can't have the GF calling when you're trying to get to third base with another girl right? Girl turned down his advances, said to take her home. DG disappointed at the lack of scoring with bbq girl, see's LB walking alone.

[eyes4crime]

What time did he leave that BBQ that night? 9 ish right? He ha d a girl with him at that BBQ, did he have to take her home? Wasn't that our train of thought at one point? Hence, he saw LB walking and ...

Hi Knox: I don't have any idea when DG left the BBQ - was a time ever mentioned? Are we sure he was even there? How do we know DG had a girl with him? TIA

[Salem]

What time did he leave that BBQ that night? 9 ish right? He ha d a girl with him at that BBQ, did he have to take her home? Wasn't that our train of thought at one point? Hence, he saw LB walking and ...

Yes, Knox we were exploring this idea at one time. Another thought is that he just went to cruise around. From the witnesses in the SW, it sounds as if DG spent a lot of time, just cruising. My thought is that he just got an opportunity. I don't think she was being stalked at the time.

Salem

[Salem]

Hi Knox: I don't have any idea when DG left the BBQ - was a time ever mentioned? Are we sure he was even there? How do we know DG had a girl with him? TIA

I'm not Knox, hope you don't mind. It is in the probable cause affidavit. Neighbor says he was at BBQ with girl. Left around 9:00 p.m.

Salem

[eyes4crime]

Maybe the reason he told SC he had to go to work that night was he planned to spend some time with the girl from the BBQ. Can't have the GF calling when you're trying to get to third base with another girl right? Girl turned down his advances, said to take her home. DG disappointed at the lack of scoring with bbq girl, see's LB walking alone.

that sounds possible! He's nothing but a .. :loser:

[eyes4crime]

I'm not Knox, hope you don't mind. It is in the probable cause affidavit. Neighbor says he was at BBQ with girl. Left around 9:00 p.m.

Salem

Sorry Salem, I got a phone call and guess I lost my train of thinking - and thanks. Now I'm wondering who the girl was?

[Jules71]

Yes, I believe it was JVK who said the apts at Beehive had not been searched thoroughly. Also, could he have take her into an apt. and drugged her. Then once she was out - he puts her in his car and they go from there. We don't know he killed her in his car - would the dogs pick up just her scent if she had been in his car if he cleaned it well? Perhaps a crime did not take place in the car, but wherever he took her afterwards.

[Jules71]

Yes, I believe it was JVK who said the apts at Beehive had not been searched thoroughly. Also, could he have take her into an apt. and drugged her. Then once she was out - he puts her in his car and they go from there. We don't know he killed her in his car - would the dogs pick up just her scent if she had been in his car if he cleaned it well? Perhaps a crime did not take place in the car, but wherever he took her afterwards.

I also feel it was a crime of oppotunity, not planned. If we knew who the woman at the BBQ was, we could firgure out if she lived near where Lindsey would have been walking. Then the possibility of him driving her home could be looked into. He says in the affidavit that he went home from the BBQ and passed out. So if he did take the woman home - it would be another lie to add to the list.

[Track292008]

Maybe the reason he told SC he had to go to work that night was he planned to spend some time with the girl from the BBQ. Can't have the GF calling when you're trying to get to third base with another girl right? Girl turned down his advances, said to take her home. DG disappointed at the lack of scoring with bbq girl, see's LB walking alone.

That's a very good possibility, Knox! If the gf said he was working the night he was actually at the barbecue, that would be a likely scenario. He could have been anticipating some action with the BBQ girl. And Lindsey, being as feisty as she is, may have fought back, infuriated him, perhaps injured him, and things quickly got out of control. That could also explain why he may have only had her in the car for 45 minutes or so, which -- as a poster said -- seems like a short time for someone who had once barricaded another girl for two hours.

And, as another poster suggested, if they were in the woods (vs. the car) he could have just left
her there and driven back to town. Creepy!

MOO.

[eyes4crime]

Yes, I believe it was JVK who said the apts at Beehive had not been searched thoroughly. Also, could he have take her into an apt. and drugged her. Then once she was out - he puts her in his car and they go from there. We don't know he killed her in his car - would the dogs pick up just her scent if she had been in his car if he cleaned it well? Perhaps a crime did not take place in the car, but wherever he took her afterwards.

That's a likely scenario. Another thought is - if he drugged her I doubt DG would put Lindsey in the front or back seat of his car (does it have a back seat)...more likely that she would be put in the trunk. (is it big enough)? TIA

[Jules71]

What time was the confirmed sighting by the unnamed person whose initials start with R who was on her way to work that night - was that a 9:45pm sighting? Where is the danged timeline - it is either you or TakeNote that has the timeline - can you point me?

Maybe that witness saw more than just seeing Lindsey walking home??? Maybe she saw DG? Maybe she saw LB going into an apt at Beehive? Who knows?? Why don't we know who this is? But then again, I guess we don't know who either of the witnesses are who last saw Lindsey, do we?

[lizzysf]

It is also possible that since he worked at the Beehive he was familiar with her walking home from her friends house on a regular basis at a usual time.(which it has been said that walking past there was routine of hers)...Maybe she had a curfew of 10 or something... I am sure he was familiar with her visits to the Beehive and maybe it was actually a targeted kidnap. Interesting that his start time at the Beehive would have been 10 PM if he was actually working that night. Did he expect to see her walking as usual and went there?

[Jules71]

That's a likely scenario. Another thought is - if he drugged her I doubt DG would put Lindsey in the front or back seat of his car (does it have a back seat)...more likely that she would be put in the trunk. (is it big enough)? TIA

I would agree unless there would be a huge chance someone would see him putting her in the car.

[Jules71]

It is also possible that since he worked at the Beehive he was familiar with her walking home from her friends house on a regular basis at a usual time.(which it has been said that walking past there was routine of hers)...Maybe she had a curfew of 10 or something... I am sure he was familiar with her visits to the Beehive and maybe it was actually a targeted kidnap. Interesting that his start time at the Beehive would have been 10 PM if he was actually working that night. Did he expect to see her walking as usual and went there?

Good point - since SC was under the impression that he would be starting work that night at 10pm.

[eyes4crime]

Here is the time-line. Never done this before, so I'll see if it works. Ist's simple and I haven't updated it in a long time cause there is still so much under discussion. Any thoughts on making it more accurate?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline

[Jules71]

Inserted by me in red

9:15 - Two different residents saw Lindsey walking on Maple between Fifth and Sixth streets – about halfway between the two homes. According to mom Baum, one of the residents is a co-worker; according to police, one works for the county.
9:26pm - Texting by DG stops abruptly
10:00pm - someone in town spots DG's car.
10:00pm - Mom Baum with a a broken down car searched for Lindsey on foot. Mom K was charging her cell phone and couldn't be reached.

[Jules71]

Inserted by me in red

9:15 - Two different residents saw Lindsey walking on Maple between Fifth and Sixth streets – about halfway between the two homes. According to mom Baum, one of the residents is a co-worker; according to police, one works for the county.
9:26pm - Texting by DG stops abruptly
10:00pm - someone in town spots DG's car.
10:00pm - Mom Baum with a a broken down car searched for Lindsey on foot. Mom K was charging her cell phone and couldn't be reached.

Wasn't there also talk about Lindsey stopping at another house to see about a sleep over? There are 11 mins between her being spotted and when DG stopped texting.

[snoelle1]

I wonder if the vacant apartments were ever used for "recreational" activity by staff who knew they were empty. Maybe DG had used them in the past for whatever (unauthorized breaks, smoke pot, hook-ups, etc) and was reasonably confident about being in one without being caught. It's a stretch, but it could fill in the time line gap - whether or not he took Lindsey...

[eyes4crime]

Wasn't there also talk about Lindsey stopping at another house to see about a sleep over? There are 11 mins between her being spotted and when DG stopped texting.

Jules71 - I don't feel comfortable inserting DG into the time-line cause he's not even a POI any more. Hopefully, soon we will be able to. I like your time-line of DG - perhaps we can put the two on the same sticky or thread once we have more info.

DG could be the perp - he has what it takes to do such a crime...but I keep thinking an older, more seasoned pedophile would be more able to pull this off leaving no observable evidence. My profile of the perp in the profile thread, back in July, sort of says what I still think. Could be that DG is very seasoned - we just don't know what he has done since the year 2000.

[eyes4crime]

I wonder if the vacant apartments were ever used for "recreational" activity by staff who knew they were empty. Maybe DG had used them in the past for whatever (unauthorized breaks, smoke pot, hook-ups, etc) and was reasonably confident about being in one without being caught. It's a stretch, but it could fill in the time line gap - whether or not he took Lindsey...

"recreational activity" - watching porn? Would you, or anyone know, if the apartments are all furnished?

[eyes4crime]

Maybe the reason he told SC he had to go to work that night was he planned to spend some time with the girl from the BBQ. Can't have the GF calling when you're trying to get to third base with another girl right? Girl turned down his advances, said to take her home. DG disappointed at the lack of scoring with bbq girl, see's LB walking alone.

Great scenario - makes so much sense to me - bruised ego and all.

[concentric]

About a month ago, I have it on the Dream thread--the image of a white door with the number 16 came to my mind. Since you guys are talking about possible rooms where a perp could have taken Lindsey...wondering if any significance at all.

[snoelle1]

"recreational activity" - watching porn? Would you, or anyone know, if the apartments are all furnished?

I don't know specifically about the Beehive. When I had to move my grandmother into a AL facility, I looked at several places and remember that most of the facilities had both furnished and unfurnished units. All of them, however, had a fully furnished "model" unit that was shown on tours and not actually occupied.

[Jules71]

Jules71 - I don't feel comfortable inserting DG into the time-line cause he's not even a POI any more. Hopefully, soon we will be able to. I like your time-line of DG - perhaps we can put the two on the same sticky or thread once we have more info.


Oh I agree with you. I just wanted to put it out there in a post so we could see it.

[eyes4crime]

Oh I agree with you. I just wanted to put it out there in a post so we could see it.

No problem, it helps to make sense of the night. I meant I would insert your red if he was a POI or suspect. After all this time one would think that the times involved would be more exact - but we are still discussing if it's 9:15 and 9:30 or all in-between...and we still don't know the witnesses. LE must be protecting them. mho

[Knox]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 03:38 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/image.php?u=44390&dateline=1248389184%5B/IM%22%5DWebsleuths%20Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community %3C/a%3E%20%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0% C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2 %A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A 0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2% A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0 %C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%2 0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0% C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2 %A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%3Ca%20href=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=44390%20target=_blank%3EWebsleuths%20 Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community%3C/a%3E%20%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0% C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2 %A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%20%5BIMG%5Dhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 135


I saw earlier that a few people were talking about truck drivers and wanted to give you another sleuthing tool (of course, this is for owner/operators).

(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=44390)http://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/

Respectfully brought from Milliac who posted this on the main thread

[nursebeeme]

little bit about the military (fwiw).. my hubby was a recruiting commander for three years...

There is a delayed entry program for all branches of the service to include the NG, and the Reserves of all branches. The paperwork is signed...an agreement with the recruit for delayed entry into the service. Basic training is than done ((usually)) in the summer between the junior and senior years. Drill is done on weekends in between (or if active duty there is intermittant training that is done thru the recruiting office). After graduation you are swore in officially and attend AIT (advanced individual training) in your specialty area and your career continues.

HOWEVER

It is also possible for those 17 years of age with the signature of a parent and a GED to do the same type program.. They must be 17 at the time of AIT at a minimum... In other words, a kid could sign up with parental signature for delayed entry, and after successful completion of the GED be sworn in and attend AIT.

Did DG graduate from a HS? Just wondering...

As for the other military question about weight limits... yes they SURE do exist (to the woe of many LOL).. They are based on your sex and your age (as do the requirements of the PT test).

As for what would make a soldier nondeployable... I would not think that weight would be a black liner on a NG soldier. There are MANY, MANY, MANY steps that a unit goes thru predeployment and many boxes to check off on each and every soldier to ensure they they are a "go". For those with a PT test failure or over weight, they would simply deploy with appropriate "profile" in their packet and remial PT, weight plan would be assigned to them to be followed. However, something such as an injury or even a mental incapacitation could keep a soldier back.. as could extenuating family circumstances (usually VERY hard to obtain). Trust me, before a soldier deploys they are checked down to each and every tooth! (yes! I have seen units jump through hoops to get a soldier a go on his dental check hours before the bus came to pick up the unit!).. Hope this helps :-)

[eyes4crime]

This is post #1 on the thread - just want to say to mikeb...GREAT photography and such a help. Thanks!!!

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - POI - Dale Golder #2

[mikeb]

This is post #1 on the thread - just want to say to mikeb...GREAT photography and such a help. Thanks!!!

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - POI - Dale Golder #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4256666&postcount=1)

Ahhh, that was the teaser. Here's what's going to keep some of you up late tonight. Oct 6 photos Foreman Road and ponds (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7814456@N08/map/?photo=3990969161&zl=NaN)

The only thing is that now I'm not sure if I got the right place. I know it's Foreman Road but I don't know which one is where the SW was served.

[eyes4crime]

Ahhh, that was the teaser. Here's what's going to keep some of you up late tonight. Oct 6 photos Foreman Road and ponds (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7814456@N08/map/?photo=3990969161&zl=NaN)

The only thing is that now I'm not sure if I got the right place. I know it's Foreman Road but I don't know which one is where the SW was served.

Brilliant photography mikeb. I'm not the person to ask about maps and property lines! I get lost on my way to work. Do you know if all that heavily wooded forest is Federal, State, privately owned or a mix. TIA

[not_my_kids]

Ahhh, that was the teaser. Here's what's going to keep some of you up late tonight.
respectfully snipped.

How well you know us...

[mikeb]

oh oh. I got the wrong place. Good thing I'm not on the SWAT team breaking down doors.

[mikeb]

There is one picture of the site 149 Foreman Rd (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7814456@N08/3991699036)

[JenniferO]

Looks like AG or DG (or at least one of the family members) is standing in the drive way next to the blue van (who ever it is is wearing a orangish/red shirt)

[nosylla]

Ahhh, that was the teaser. Here's what's going to keep some of you up late tonight. Oct 6 photos Foreman Road and ponds (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7814456@N08/map/?photo=3990969161&zl=NaN)

The only thing is that now I'm not sure if I got the right place. I know it's Foreman Road but I don't know which one is where the SW was served.
I saw an address somewhere of the G family living at and the SW was done at the two properties that I noted down as... 149 Foreman (the SW POI and the parents and some siblings?)
Another parcel I wrote down the info was... 180523230050 185 Sand Creek Rd and 180523230040A & 180523230040B both properties show 149 FOREMAN RD as the address. They noted that ... "TG owns all 3 parcels".

Google - from Maple (Beehive)
Head east on W Maple St toward S 5th St 0.2 mi
2. Turn right at S 3rd St 0.4 mi
3. Turn right at Mc Cleary-Sine Rd/Mox Chehalis Rd/Sand Creek
Continue to follow Mox Chehalis Rd 0.8 mi
4. Take the 2nd right onto 87041/Foreman Rd
Destination will be on the left 1.0 mi
Destination.... 149 Foreman Rd

Hope that helps with the pics. Great shots by the way!

[Salem]

Sorry Salem, I got a phone call and guess I lost my train of thinking - and thanks. Now I'm wondering who the girl was?

I do believe that remains a mystery. Her name was redacted out. I thought it might be SC, but someone reminded me that DG had 50ish phone calls/texts with SC that afternoon/evening. There would be no reason to call/text her if she was there with him. Soooooo..... I haven't seen where anyone has managed to ID her yet.

Salem

[TakeNote]

on DG myspace i did follow and go look at some of his friends myspace's and there is a girl and she has pics of DG and the girls mom.......if that would help?

[Track292008]

Have any of those abundant waterways and lakes so visible in the photos been dreged in the effort to find Lindsey? If not, why not? Does anyone know? TIA.

Thanks for the magnificent photos, Mikeb!

[fleececreations]

if he went to ellensburg.. did he move the body? possibly that far?

[Track292008]

How long after Lindsey disappeared did LE interview DG? If he did have any cuts and bruises, would they still have been visible? Or had too much time elapsed by then?

Is the person with the initial "R" still thought to be the last person who reported seeing Lindsey, the woman who was on her way to work in a neighboring county?

TIA.

[mysticrose]

How long after Lindsey disappeared did LE interview DG? If he did have any cuts and bruises, would they still have been visible? Or had too much time elapsed by then?

Is the person with the initial "R" still thought to be the last person who reported seeing Lindsey, the woman who was on her way to work in a neighboring county?

TIA.

I think it was 1 month after Lindsey went missing that they questioned him due to a tip that came in according to a article I read, so I'm sure if there where any cuts or bruises they would have been healed by then...jmo of course...

[Kimster]

There is one picture of the site 149 Foreman Rd (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7814456@N08/3991699036)

OH boy! The leaves are just starting to turn, aren't they? And yes, when they fall, the searching will be more difficult. I was looking for the possibility of even a slight clearing on the property and didn't see any.

Locals, can you ask the younger crowd where the kids go to hang out in the boonies?

[momtective]

There is one picture of the site 149 Foreman Rd (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7814456@N08/3991699036)

mikeb, your photos are wonderful. What a wonderful asset you are to WS. Thank you for all you are doing for Lindsey and her family and for us here at WS.
Here are some screen caps of the property from news video when the search was conducted and some from the Grays harbor tax parcel search. Hope this helps in identifying the property.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/Abandonedhousepropertysearch.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/Abandonedhouseproperty.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/Abandonedhousevehicles.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/180523230050A98.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/Lindsey%20Baum/180523230050A99.jpg

[SadlyMistaken]

What time did he leave that BBQ that night? 9 ish right? He ha d a girl with him at that BBQ, did he have to take her home? Wasn't that our train of thought at one point? Hence, he saw LB walking and ...
I may be COMPLETELY off here but after reading the SW. I thought that the detective was trying to say that after DG started getting questioned about Lindsey's disappearance.. he started hanging out with the neighbor every night.. that had the problems with memory that was due to drug and alcohol abuse.. in an attempt to create an alibi for June 26th. That the neighbor with the memory problems, when questioned did say that DG was at the BBQ that night and that he was with a girl. Then when they talked to the girl. She said that she was there but that DG wasn't there... and she agreed to be interviewed. I guess I will have to read it again. I just don't get why they would add the info about the person with the memory problem and the girl's answer and that she agreed to be interviewed if they weren't trying to establish that he had told several difference stories about where he was that night, that were all untrue. That he even tried to manipulate someone with mental problems to lie for him.

[Jules71]

I may be COMPLETELY off here but after reading the SW. I thought that the detective was trying to say that after DG started getting questioned about Lindsey's disappearance.. he started hanging out with the neighbor every night.. that had the problems with memory that was due to drug and alcohol abuse.. in an attempt to create an alibi for June 26th. That the neighbor with the memory problems, when questioned did say that DG was at the BBQ that night and that he was with a girl. Then when they talked to the girl. She said that she was there but that DG wasn't there... and she agreed to be interviewed. I guess I will have to read it again. I just don't get why they would add the info about the person with the memory problem and the girl's answer and that she agreed to be interviewed if they weren't trying to establish that he had told several difference stories about where he was that night, that were all untrue. That he even tried to manipulate someone with mental problems to lie for him.

Very interesting!! I will have to read it again too. I first thought someone had told LE DG was there with SC, but then SC said she wasn't and that it was actually someone else he was there with. Hmmmm

[SadlyMistaken]

I may be COMPLETELY off here but after reading the SW. I thought that the detective was trying to say that after DG started getting questioned about Lindsey's disappearance.. he started hanging out with the neighbor every night.. that had the problems with memory that was due to drug and alcohol abuse.. in an attempt to create an alibi for June 26th. That the neighbor with the memory problems, when questioned did say that DG was at the BBQ that night and that he was with a girl. Then when they talked to the girl. She said that she was there but that DG wasn't there... and she agreed to be interviewed. I guess I will have to read it again. I just don't get why they would add the info about the person with the memory problem and the girl's answer and that she agreed to be interviewed if they weren't trying to establish that he had told several difference stories about where he was that night, that were all untrue. That he even tried to manipulate someone with mental problems to lie for him.

OK.. now that I read it again.. it says "investigators believed she had been......." . I am thinking "at home".. maybe?.. which if this was Stephani.. would have been in eastern WA. Guess that makes more sense. The guy with the mental problems said they were there together.. but she couldn't have been there because she wasn't even in town and her and DG had just begun talking that day. LOL I don't know.. that whole part is confusing to me.

[SadlyMistaken]

Very interesting!! I will have to read it again too. I first thought someone had told LE DG was there with SC, but then SC said she wasn't and that it was actually someone else he was there with. Hmmmm
I think you are right. I had remembered it wrong or just didn't know what to put in the blank spaces so added my info.. LOL.. sorry! I think the guy said she was there with DG that night. That makes more sense.

[Jules71]

From the sw:

Investigators interviewed ___(1)_____. He stated he had a BBQ on 06-26-09. He said that [Golder] and a woman named ___(2)____ had attended. Investigators believed she had been at __(3)____ on 06-26-09 when [Golder] was present. She agreed to meet with investigators in person for an interview.

Anyone know what blanks 1, 2, and 3 are?

Are we thinking (1) is the person who has mental problems and can be "manipulated into believing things that did not occur"?

Who had been a Hardy's residence talking to him almost every evening? DG? Is (1) Hardy? If so, then Ralke described [Hardy] as having some mental issues, etc.?

It is looking like DG was NOT at the BBQ and that he convinced the person with mental issues to say he and a famale (SC?) were there? Did DG believe SC would confirm his alibi?

[Jules71]

OK.. now that I read it again.. it says "investigators believed she had been......." . I am thinking "at home".. maybe?.. which if this was Stephani.. would have been in eastern WA. Guess that makes more sense. The guy with the mental problems said they were there together.. but she couldn't have been there because she wasn't even in town and her and DG had just begun talking that day. LOL I don't know.. that whole part is confusing to me.

Yes! I believe you are correct. "investigators believed she was at [home]. I can see the "at". I kept trying to put Ellensburg in there and it didn't work with "at". But yes, AT HOME works!

[SadlyMistaken]

From the sw:

Investigators interviewed ___(1)_____. He stated he had a BBQ on 06-26-09. He said that [Golder] and a woman named ___(2)____ had attended. Investigators believed she had been at __(3)____ on 06-26-09 when [Golder] was present. She agreed to meet with investigators in person for an interview.

Anyone know what blanks 1, 2, and 3 are?

Are we thinking (1) is the person who has mental problems and can be "manipulated into believing things that did not occur"?

Who had been a Hardy's residence talking to him almost every evening? DG? Is (1) Hardy? If so, then Ralke described [Hardy] as having some mental issues, etc.?

It is looking like DG was NOT at the BBQ and that he convinced the person with mental issues to say he and a famale (SC?) were there? Did DG believe SC would confirm his alibi?

I think that that investigators don't believe that he was there. That he manipulated the man into believing that he was there as his alibi. Maybe he didn't know that the neighbor would get mixed up and add that the girl was there too. Probably because they had been together since then and he had seen him and the girl together. That would be the only way it would make sense.. if that is their theory. Since they put it all in there.. it looks like that is what they believe happened.

If it is some other girl.. then dang.. I don't know! LOL

[Jules71]

I think that that investigators don't believe that he was there. That he manipulated the man into believing that he was there as his alibi. Maybe he didn't know that the neighbor would get mixed up and add that the girl was there too. Probably because they had been together since then and he had seen him and the girl together. That would be the only way it would make sense.. if that is their theory. Since they put it all in there.. it looks like that is what they believe happened.

If it is some other girl.. then dang.. I don't know! LOL

I think you are right on!!:woohoo:

[Jules71]

He has to be the one! Otherwise WHY all the lies? It just doesn't make sense. And too conincidental he was seen where Lindsey disappeared around the same time and the texting stopped.

[eyes4crime]

I think that that investigators don't believe that he was there. That he manipulated the man into believing that he was there as his alibi. Maybe he didn't know that the neighbor would get mixed up and add that the girl was there too. Probably because they had been together since then and he had seen him and the girl together. That would be the only way it would make sense.. if that is their theory. Since they put it all in there.. it looks like that is what they believe happened.

If it is some other girl.. then dang.. I don't know! LOL

I think you could be right on target with that scenario! DG is sure a manipulative opportunist isn't he?

Let's say he wasn't at the BBQ nor with a girl - what does that do for the time-line? Where was he until he met up with Lindsey at 9:15 or so? What was he doing that made him want a 10yo? (assuming he is the perp).

[SadlyMistaken]

He has to be the one! Otherwise WHY all the lies? It just doesn't make sense. And too conincidental he was seen where Lindsey disappeared around the same time and the texting stopped.
There are some definate holes in this guys story and you have to wonder why that is. The truth is simple. Lies are what complicates things. The truth doesn't change. And.. it certainly wasn't one "wrong answer" to detectives on the phone. He lied to the gf about even having work that night. He lied to investigators. The texting stopping at 9:26 because he had to "work" at 10.. really disturbs me.. especially since she says that on other nights, they texted and had long phone conversations, even while he was at work. I am curious when he told her he had to work.. did he suddenly around 9:30 send her a message saying he had gotten a call that he had to work that night and needed to get ready and go, so didn't have time to continue (which would mean IF it is him.. he saw Lindsey and some sickening impulse took over) or Did he tell her all day long that he had to work that night.. (that he planned on doing something to someone that night)

[eyes4crime]

He has to be the one! Otherwise WHY all the lies? It just doesn't make sense. And too conincidental he was seen where Lindsey disappeared around the same time and the texting stopped.

Hi Jules71 - he sure does seem like the one LE suspects, and as you point out, why not? My guess is that LE has all kinds of circumstantial evidence but nothing linking DG directly to Lindsey that evening; they need forensic evidence. The DA has to prove to a jury, beyond all reasonable doubt, that he is the one. I think LE are waiting for forensics to come back. :banghead: mho

[SadlyMistaken]

I think you could be right on target with that scenario! DG is sure a manipulative opportunist isn't he?

Let's say he wasn't at the BBQ nor with a girl - what does that do for the time-line? Where was he until he met up with Lindsey at 9:15 or so? What was he doing that made him want a 10yo? (assuming he is the perp).

He does seem to be a manipulating opportunist.. if all that is true. What a scary kind of person.

Still.. there is a part of me that has to ask.. how did he cover his tracks so well. There doesn't seem to be one shred of evidence to link Lindsey with him except circumstantially and I believe some definate consciousness of guilt on his part with following MB and the car not being around town (while LE and FBI were swirling).

How was no evidence left behind? Could he have had some help?

[eyes4crime]

Lies I can think of:

I was at a BBQ and was with a girl - I have witnesses.

After the BBQ I went home and slept

I was working at the youth camp

I was working at the Bee Hive

There was another car cruising around wanting to steal my car parts (he was following mom Baum)

any more?

[cyberswept]

He has to be the one! Otherwise WHY all the lies? It just doesn't make sense. And too conincidental he was seen where Lindsey disappeared around the same time and the texting stopped.

Jules, I'll admit with the circumstantial evidence that he looks guilty, but he may be covering up for someone else or he may even be innocent. We just don't know yet. Saying he has to be the one reminds me of the cattle rustling days when a posse sat as judge, jury and executioner. The guy that looked guilty swung from a rope whether he was guilty or not.

I just think that conclusions in this case are still a bit early. LE still has some work to do if indeed he is going to be accused. In our system of checks and balances, he is innocent until proven guilty.

Please know that I am not jumping on you about this. I am just trying to make a point, having sat in on two juries before and having to weigh the evidence.

[Jules71]

He does seem to be a manipulating opportunist.. if all that is true. What a scary kind of person.

Still.. there is a part of me that has to ask.. how did he cover his tracks so well. There doesn't seem to be one shred of evidence to link Lindsey with him except circumstantially and I believe some definate consciousness of guilt on his part with following MB and the car not being around town (while LE and FBI were swirling).

How was no evidence left behind? Could he have had some help?

Somehow he got her in his car and took her somewhere else. I don't know he would have taken her to that property that was searched. If no one saw Lindsey in the car with him, and no evidence of her was found in his car -then nothing really for him to cover up. We may just have to wait for her recovery, and I hope to God that happens soon! Wonder if he went to a car wash to clean/vacuum his car out when he went to Ellensburg.

[Jules71]

Jules, I'll admit with the circumstantial evidence that he looks guilty, but he may be covering up for someone else or he may even be innocent. We just don't know yet. Saying he has to be the one reminds me of the cattle rustling days when a posse sat as judge, jury and executioner. The guy that looked guilty swung from a rope whether he was guilty or not.

I just think that conclusions in this case are still a bit early. LE still has some work to do if indeed he is going to be accused. In our system of checks and balances, he is innocent until proven guilty.

Please know that I am not jumping on you about this. I am just trying to make a point, having sat in on two juries before and having to weigh the evidence.

I completely understand!

[cyberswept]

He does seem to be a manipulating opportunist.. if all that is true. What a scary kind of person.

Still.. there is a part of me that has to ask.. how did he cover his tracks so well. There doesn't seem to be one shred of evidence to link Lindsey with him except circumstantially and I believe some definate consciousness of guilt on his part with following MB and the car not being around town (while LE and FBI were swirling).

How was no evidence left behind? Could he have had some help?

I am still waiting to see the results from the search before we can say there is no shred of evidence. I really hope the LE that served the SW was very thorough in what they took and the investigation of that evidence.

[nosylla]

SC blog Posted yesterday Ugh..

I never know what I can say. Sorry. MS blog.

[momtective]

I may be COMPLETELY off here but after reading the SW. I thought that the detective was trying to say that after DG started getting questioned about Lindsey's disappearance.. he started hanging out with the neighbor every night.. that had the problems with memory that was due to drug and alcohol abuse.. in an attempt to create an alibi for June 26th. That the neighbor with the memory problems, when questioned did say that DG was at the BBQ that night and that he was with a girl. Then when they talked to the girl. She said that she was there but that DG wasn't there... and she agreed to be interviewed. I guess I will have to read it again. I just don't get why they would add the info about the person with the memory problem and the girl's answer and that she agreed to be interviewed if they weren't trying to establish that he had told several difference stories about where he was that night, that were all untrue. That he even tried to manipulate someone with mental problems to lie for him.

My BOLD

Or he could have been asking the neighbor about another individual. Maybe Dale witnessed something, maybe he has a very good idea of who took Lindsey and he was on a fact finding mission. Maybe Dale is the one that gave LE the lead that resulted in the SW. I mean it's not out of the question, maybe the same person who took Lindsey also committed sexual crimes against Dale and his younger brother all time they were growing up and maybe, just maybe Dale got tired of keeping the secret. Even knowing that his own past would come out, maybe Dale made the ultimate sacrifice in outing himself and the other individual.
He's no Saint but he's also not proven guilty...just yet anyway.
I look to the astros thread and Dale just does not seem to fit the profile the astros have of Lindsey's abductor.
I could be totally wrong but then again...I could be right. I think LE said it best "nothing is black and white."

[SadlyMistaken]

Somehow he got her in his car and took her somewhere else. I don't know he would have taken her to that property that was searched. If no one saw Lindsey in the car with him, and no evidence of her was found in his car -then nothing really for him to cover up. We may just have to wait for her recovery, and I hope to God that happens soon! Wonder if he went to a car wash to clean/vacuum his car out when he went to Ellensburg.
Well.. we know that he was in town a few times a day before Lindsey went missing.. then he wasn't seen in town for a few weeks after. LE and FBI were swarming through that town during the time. If it is him then OF COURSE he wouldn't want to be in town during that time. The paranoia would have been overwhelming, I am sure. And.. maybe during that time there would have been evidence found in his car and he knew it. Maybe he took the car to eastern WA and stopped somewhere between here and there and had the entire car detailed. People around there would know he had done it. But.. nobody outside the area would question it.

I know this is also a horrible thought but I have wondered.. when he tried to rape the 12 year old girl when he was 14. She said that he took off her clothes and his clothes. If Lindsey was kidnapped by him for something sexual, and we can assume his tactics probably haven't changed.. then her clothes or some of her clothing could have been somewhere in his car or around his home. He could have dumped those between there and Ellensburg too.

Witnesses said that he was obsessed with her disappearance right after it happened. Later on in July it had died down. After he left to go to Ellensburg and knew the evidence was gone?

[eyes4crime]

He does seem to be a manipulating opportunist.. if all that is true. What a scary kind of person.

Still.. there is a part of me that has to ask.. how did he cover his tracks so well. There doesn't seem to be one shred of evidence to link Lindsey with him except circumstantially and I believe some definate consciousness of guilt on his part with following MB and the car not being around town (while LE and FBI were swirling).

How was no evidence left behind? Could he have had some help?

I have the same questions! How could someone 23yo get away with a crime such as this? Seems to me he left no obvious evidence, no crime scene, and walked quietly for 3 months. Just look at what he got away with at age 14!! :furious: Then I heard about his babysitting ordeal, using porn to groom young children, barricading the bedroom door, and his 2 hours of terrorizing a younger girl. He had most of the ingredients, at age 14, to become involved in a crime such as this. He used his role as a babysitter as a one up situation (power and control); he was into porn (used it to groom); he knew how to groom children, including his little brother; he know how to isolate and trap his victim; and he knew how to get out of being charged and I have no doubt all that simply escalated... who knows how he has increased those skills in the last 9 years. just my opinion. :eek:

[Jules71]

Does anyone know what is around if you keep going on Mommsen Rd past Lindsey's house where it connects with McCleary Rd? Can you get on HWY 8 from there? And has this area been searched?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=647+w+maple+McCleary,+WA&daddr=47.057318,-123.256216+to:McCleary+Rd&geocode=%3B%3BFU3hzQId9G6n-A&gl=us&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&via=1&dirflg=w&sll=47.051148,-123.261538&sspn=0.016199,0.045276&ie=UTF8&ll=47.051675,-123.259864&spn=0.016199,0.045276&t=h&z=15

[SadlyMistaken]

My BOLD

Or he could have been asking the neighbor about another individual. Maybe Dale witnessed something, maybe he has a very good idea of who took Lindsey and he was on a fact finding mission. Maybe Dale is the one that gave LE the lead that resulted in the SW. I mean it's not out of the question, maybe the same person who took Lindsey also committed sexual crimes against Dale and his younger brother all time they were growing up and maybe, just maybe Dale got tired of keeping the secret. Even knowing that his own past would come out, maybe Dale made the ultimate sacrifice in outing himself and the other individual.
He's no Saint but he's also not proven guilty...just yet anyway.
I look to the astros thread and Dale just does not seem to fit the profile the astros have of Lindsey's abductor.
I could be totally wrong but then again...I could be right. I think LE said it best "nothing is black and white."
If he witnessed something and is working with LE then I find it hard to believe that they would search HIS car and HIS home for evidence against HIM. Why are they not serving search warrants on the person, the persons vehicle and home, that he witnessed something about?

The astro threads have been right and they have been wrong.

I, personally am not convinced that he did it all alone. Maybe it was a father/son thing. That would then put one of her abductors into their profile. And.. the female that knows and is covering.. could be the mom. All depends how you look at really.

[Track292008]

I may be dense, but I don't understand why DG's whereabouts between, say, 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. that night relate to his possible encounter with Lindsey later on. She was, as far as I know, seen at least by her friend Kayla walking down the hill after 9 p.m. alone. The only reason I can see for his seeking to lie about those hours was to avolid having his girlfriend know he had another date.

What am I missing?

MOO. TIA

[eyes4crime]

My BOLD

Or he could have been asking the neighbor about another individual. Maybe Dale witnessed something, maybe he has a very good idea of who took Lindsey and he was on a fact finding mission. Maybe Dale is the one that gave LE the lead that resulted in the SW. I mean it's not out of the question, maybe the same person who took Lindsey also committed sexual crimes against Dale and his younger brother all time they were growing up and maybe, just maybe Dale got tired of keeping the secret. Even knowing that his own past would come out, maybe Dale made the ultimate sacrifice in outing himself and the other individual.
He's no Saint but he's also not proven guilty...just yet anyway.
I look to the astros thread and Dale just does not seem to fit the profile the astros have of Lindsey's abductor.
I could be totally wrong but then again...I could be right. I think LE said it best "nothing is black and white."

I wrote a profile of the perp in the profile thread back in July - he doesn't fit my profile either, mine was older and more experienced. We have since learned some important qualities DG had at an early age. They should not be dismissed. I don't know what the profile of the Astros looks like, but my guess is that it portrays someone older, more experienced as a perp. I agree - but I can't dismiss DG at this point. Why should we? I'm sure DG was abused by his father and perhaps, his father was abused by his father (grandpa), we should keep them ALL in mind. I don't consider it an insult to the Astros to continue my thinking in directions different from theirs...or is it??? mho

[SadlyMistaken]

Does anyone know what is around if you keep going on Mommsen Rd past Lindsey's house where it connects with McCleary Rd? Can you get on HWY 8 from there? And has this area been searched?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=647+w+maple+McCleary,+WA&daddr=47.057318,-123.256216+to:McCleary+Rd&geocode=%3B%3BFU3hzQId9G6n-A&gl=us&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&via=1&dirflg=w&sll=47.051148,-123.261538&sspn=0.016199,0.045276&ie=UTF8&ll=47.051675,-123.259864&spn=0.016199,0.045276&t=h&z=15
I never noticed that before Jules. I do know.. when you get off of 8.. to go into McCleary.. it takes you to that T in the road.. McCleary Rd/3rd.. Left takes you into town.. and there is a dead end sign that goes to the right. If Mommsen meets up with that road.. then it would 't be a dead end there. That is strange.

[momtective]

If he witnessed something and is working with LE then I find it hard to believe that they would search HIS car and HIS home for evidence against HIM. Why are they not serving search warrants on the person, the persons vehicle and home, that he witnessed something about?

The astro threads have been right and they have been wrong.

I, personally am not convinced that he did it all alone. Maybe it was a father/son thing. That would then put one of her abductors into their profile. And.. the female that knows and is covering.. could be the mom. All depends how you look at really.

I agree, it could have been both father and son and that is a terrible thought. But if I understand correctly, CDG is the one that lives on the abandoned looking property that was searched, not Dale. I'm wondering if the white car seen in the pictures of that residence has been looked at.

[SadlyMistaken]

I may be dense, but I don't understand why DG's whereabouts between, say, 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. that night relate to his possible encounter with Lindsey later on. She was, as far as I know, seen at least by her friend Kayla walking down the hill after 9 p.m. alone. The only reason I can see for his seeking to lie about those hours was to avolid having his girlfriend know he had another date.

What am I missing?

MOO. TIA
She had just given him her phone number at noon that day. I don't know that we could call them bf and gf on the day of 6/26. IMO

[eyes4crime]

I may be dense, but I don't understand why DG's whereabouts between, say, 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. that night relate to his possible encounter with Lindsey later on. She was, as far as I know, seen at least by her friend Kayla walking down the hill after 9 p.m. alone. The only reason I can see for his seeking to lie about those hours was to avolid having his girlfriend know he had another date.

What am I missing?

MOO. TIA

I agree - it doesn't relate much if all his lies were to fool his girlfriend. But why would he lie to the police? He told them he was at the youth camp, the Bee Hive, the BBQ, sleeping...why all the different stories? IMO if he went to those extemes to lie to his gf about the BBQ on the 26th, who knows what extremes he would go to in order to hide his whereabouts from 9:00p on that evening. mho

[momtective]

She had just given him her phone number at noon that day. I don't know that we could call them bf and gf on the day of 6/26. IMO

She lied..go look at his ms page...she was leaving messages for him as early as Jan 08 and in her ms one album is title "First weekend with My Dale"

[SadlyMistaken]

I agree, it could have been both father and son and that is a terrible thought. But if I understand correctly, CDG is the one that lives on the abandoned looking property that was searched, not Dale. I'm wondering if the white car seen in the pictures of that residence has been looked at.
That is a horrible thought.. isn't it? The father being found guilty of child molestation.. REALLY troubles me. The fact that many abused children also turn into abusers. This all worries me, in regard to Lindsey's disappearance.

I am not completely convinced it is him and not trying to convict him of this crime. I don't think that we can discount all that has been found that points to him either.

[eyes4crime]

She lied..go look at his ms page...she was leaving messages for him as early as Jan 08 and in her ms one album is title "First weekend with My Dale"

Wasn't that when she lived in Michigan? It seems he knew her e-mail but not her cell phone # or am I misinformed? From what I remember, she gave him her cell phone # June 26th...that would be easy for LE to check.

[SadlyMistaken]

She lied..go look at his ms page...she was leaving messages for him as early as Jan 08 and in her ms one album is title "First weekend with My Dale"
She did? Why would SHE lie? Ok.. this gets more confusing by the day. I thought that she just gave him her number THAT day?:banghead:

[cyberswept]

Does anyone know what is around if you keep going on Mommsen Rd past Lindsey's house where it connects with McCleary Rd? Can you get on HWY 8 from there? And has this area been searched?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=647+w+maple+McCleary,+WA&daddr=47.057318,-123.256216+to:McCleary+Rd&geocode=%3B%3BFU3hzQId9G6n-A&gl=us&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&via=1&dirflg=w&sll=47.051148,-123.261538&sspn=0.016199,0.045276&ie=UTF8&ll=47.051675,-123.259864&spn=0.016199,0.045276&t=h&z=15

As far as the city is concerned, it's a dead end. It does meet McCleary Rd however, where it meets the road you could not drive through for a couple of reasons.

At McCleary Rd there is a closed gate. Also in areas on the road from Mommsen St, but closer to McCleary Rd, it narrows and would only allow like a quad runner through it.

I am not sure why Google shows a real road there as I would consider parts of that a trail.

We are not allowed to talk about search areas specifically, since it is ongoing, but it has been looked at. That's all I can say.

[eyes4crime]

That is a horrible thought.. isn't it? The father being found guilty of child molestation.. REALLY troubles me. The fact that many abused children also turn into abusers. This all worries me, in regard to Lindsey's disappearance.

I am not completely convinced it is him and not trying to convict him of this crime. I don't think that we can discount all that has been found that points to him either.

I agree, and I probably will get banned or a time-out for saying this: As far as I know we can discuss the pieces of this crime puzzle in ways that make sense to us. As far as I know, these threads are not here to support and agree with the information the Astros have so diligently and scientifically come up with. If I'm wrong, I am definitely on the wrong crime site. TIA for listening.

[Track292008]

I agree - it doesn't relate much if all his lies were to fool his girlfriend. But why would he lie to the police? He told them he was at the youth camp, the Bee Hive, the BBQ, sleeping...why all the different stories? IMO if he went to those extemes to lie to his gf about the BBQ on the 26th, who knows what extremes he would go to in order to hide his whereabouts from 9:00p on that evening. mho

Perhaps he lied to the police because by the time they were involved, he was covering up his participation in a crime. Just a possibility....but a good one, I think.

MOO.

[eyes4crime]

As far as the city is concerned, it's a dead end. It does meet McCleary Rd however, where it meets the road you could not drive through for a couple of reasons.

At McCleary Rd there is a closed gate. Also in areas on the road from Mommsen St, but closer to McCleary Rd, it narrows and would only allow like a quad runner through it.

I am not sure why Google shows a real road there as I would consider parts of that a trail.

We are not allowed to talk about search areas specifically, since it is ongoing, but it has been looked at. That's all I can say.

thanks for that cyberswept! Where is the hospital in relation to Lindsey's house? TIA

[JenniferO]

I'm not cyberswept.. but the hospital is up a hill and around the corner behind Lindseys house.

[cyberswept]

I'm not cyberswept.. but the hospital is up a hill and around the corner behind Lindseys house.

You can be cyberswept when you are right, but you have to be JennO when you are wrong. :dance:

[momtective]

I agree, and I probably will get banned or a time-out for saying this: As far as I know we can discuss the pieces of this crime puzzle in ways that make sense to us. As far as I know, these threads are not here to support and agree with the information the Astros have so diligently and scientifically come up with. If I'm wrong, I am definitely on the wrong crime site. TIA for listening.

:waitasec: don't see any thing in your post that would get you banned...and you are correct the threads are here are not here to support and agree with one another. They are here for discussion and sleuthing. There are many avenues one can use to get from point A to point B but when your lost a little help getting where you want to go is always appreciated. I think the discussion threads, astros thread, dreams thread etc. all lend themselves to helping us find our way through these cases. No one thread is all knowing, it takes all of them and all of us sharing our gifts and talents to try to make sense of the senseless...which is crimes against children such as Lindsey. I'm grateful for every thread and every poster that works so hard to bring these children home and bring closure to their families.
You are defiantly not on the wrong site eyes4chrime.

[cyberswept]

Hey... just read a post on MS - SC on her blog. Posted yesterday - all about the G fam. innocence and they are a loving family.

snipped

Ok, sorry if I broke rules. I am learning..... I have to go to meeting - check back later.

You need to edit post 117. You aren't allowed to post from a MS account.

Bumping this from the other thread:

Just to be clear no you cannot copy and paste anything from a myspace page. If someone is discussing the case on a blog you can link to the blog(unless it is a banned one) but you cannot copy and paste their entries here either. You can link to a ms account of a NAMED in mainstream media person unless they are a minor.


I would like to add that if you aren't sure about whether or not to post something, ask a longtime poster or a mod if it would be ok. I know it's exciting to find information you want to share, but try to temper that with the rules of the forum. WS runs a great forum here by keeping us all in check. It would be awful to get a thread shut down because someone rushed into putting information out there that violated the TOS. So let's error on the side of caution everyone.

[concentric]

Has anyone discussed the possibility that DG could have been stalking Lindsey for someone else? I mean, not a family member, but someone who convinced DG to get a young girl for him for an amount of money DG couldn't refuse?

[scandi]

Has anyone discussed the possibility that DG could have been stalking Lindsey for someone else? I mean, not a family member, but someone who convinced DG to get a young girl for him for an amount of money DG couldn't refuse?

It could be Concentric, Pretty crazy, eh? But it could explain why he told his gf he heard she was dismembered, and maybe had no idea the guy was a psycho!

[eyes4crime]

Has anyone discussed the possibility that DG could have been stalking Lindsey for someone else? I mean, not a family member, but someone who convinced DG to get a young girl for him for an amount of money DG couldn't refuse?

I've thought about it Concentric...interesting take on things. I've thought many times DG could be diverting attention or covering up for another person, or not involved at all. Here's why:

DG's criminal sexual history started early - age 14. He has had 9 years to improve his mo - to become a more efficient and careful criminal. Seems to me he is still as brain deficient and grandiose as he was at 14.

DG made mistakes. Or did he?
...DG blew LE off in a high profile case - giving 3 different stories as to where he was on the night of the 26th. Stories that were checked for accuracy - he lied.

...DG stopped texting, an observable and trackable behavior, right at the time Lindsey was last seen.

...DG's car was seen and heard near the Beehive around 10p. Why was he there - perps don't hang around their own crime scene?

...DG's behavior changed after Lindsey disappeared - he didn't drive his known car around town with the same frequency. He was missed!

...The most blatant mistake was following mom Baum in the same car that was seen and heard near the spot Lindsey disappeared June 26th. Almost like he went out of his way to harass her and be caught.

Criminally lucky...criminally stupid...but not criminally intelligent.

Here's what we know about Lindsey - no crime scene, no evidence that we know of, no motive, no witnesses, and no body. Can a person with the above mentioned mistakes pull off this kind of crime?

Sure as heck can't count him out as a suspect, yet - way to many unexplained coincidences. Working in tandem or covering for another person is a distinct possibility. These thought are based on what little I know in this case - which isn't much! sorry for the length.

[cyberswept]

I've thought about it Concentric...interesting take on things. I've thought many times DG could be diverting attention or covering up for another person, or not involved at all. Here's why:

DG's criminal sexual history started early - age 14. He has had 9 years to improve his mo - to become a more efficient and careful criminal. Seems to me he is still as brain deficient and grandiose as he was at 14.

DG made mistakes. Or did he?
...DG blew LE off in a high profile case - giving 3 different stories as to where he was on the night of the 26th. Stories that were checked for accuracy - he lied.

...DG stopped texting, an observable and trackable behavior, right at the time Lindsey was last seen.

...DG's car was seen and heard near the Beehive around 10p. Why was he there - perps don't hang around their own crime scene?

...DG's behavior changed after Lindsey disappeared - he didn't drive his known car around town with the same frequency. He was missed!

...The most blatant mistake was following mom Baum in the same car that was seen and heard near the spot Lindsey disappeared June 26th. Almost like he went out of his way to harass her and be caught.

Criminally lucky...criminally stupid...but not criminally intelligent.

Here's what we know about Lindsey - no crime scene, no evidence that we know of, no motive, no witnesses, and no body. Can a person with the above mentioned mistakes pull off this kind of crime?

Sure as heck can't count him out as a suspect, yet - way to many unexplained coincidences. Working in tandem or covering for another person is a distinct possibility. These thought are based on what little I know in this case - which isn't much! sorry for the length.

Very nice summation eyes. I have felt the same way. He would be way to amateurish to have pulled it off all by himself in such a clean manner. He seems contradictive at best as a suspect because someone got away clean with Lindsey, yet would they make such blatant mistakes afterward? This is why it appears to me that he is not the brains behind the operation, if indeed he is involved. From what we have seen and heard, my guess would be there is a minimum of at least 3 of them. Just one take on how things could be.

[coastal]

I've been re-reading the Affidavit for the SW dated Sept. 25, 2009. I think the following section is hinky:

"...On 07-29-09 a concerned citizen named_________contacted investigators and wanted to report that a subject named Dale Golder worked at the Beehive retirement center. Sample said that Dale drove a small white car with loud exhaust. Sample said that Golder usually drove his car through town numerous times a day. He said that for several weeks after the Baum girl disappeared Golder wasn’t in town driving like he normally did. Sample found this suspicious. Sample identified another resident in McCleary who was familiar with Golder’s vehicle and driving habits.

...Mantes was contacted and told investigators that Golder drove a small white sports car with loud exhaust. Mentes said Golder drove around town on a regular basis. He also told investigators that on the night of June 26th 2009 at about 10:00pm he saw a small white sports car with loud exhaust on Maple street in McCleary that he thought was Golder’s. He did not see who was driving the vehicle and thought nothing of it because seeing Golder driving around was normal. Golder is the registered owner of the white 1995 Honda Del Sol, Washington License______"

So. Sample reports to LE that DG works at Beehive; DG drives a small white sportscar with loud exhaust thru town on a regular basis, but did not do so for several weeks after LB disappeared. S points LE to "Mantes" or "Mentes", who knows DG's car and driving habits.

Mantes/Mentes reports to LE that DG drives a small white sports car with loud exhaust (exactly the words of Sample's earlier report) and recalls seeing a small white sports car with loud exhaust on Maple St, June 26, 2009, at about 10:00pm, but did not see who was driving the car. M/M assumes DG was driving DG's car; he "thinks nothing of it" since this was "normal". (Why does M/M recall this event, then, when interviewed on 7/29/09, if it was a "normal" occurrence?)

The next sentence assumes the "small white sportscar with loud exhaust" seen 6/26/09 on Maple St. @ 10:00pm is Golder's 1995 Honda Del Sol, WA License _______ {"...Golder is the registered owner of THE white 1995 HDS... }

I can't see where "a white sports car with loud exhaust" was ever id'd as DG's 1995 HdS, or where DG was id'd driving on Maple St. at 10:00pm on 6/26/09.

Who else drives a loud little white car. Who else has access to DG's HdS?

[Jules71]

I've been re-reading the Affidavit for the SW dated Sept. 25, 2009. I think the following section is hinky:

"...On 07-29-09 a concerned citizen named_________contacted investigators and wanted to report that a subject named Dale Golder worked at the Beehive retirement center. Sample said that Dale drove a small white car with loud exhaust. Sample said that Golder usually drove his car through town numerous times a day. He said that for several weeks after the Baum girl disappeared Golder wasn’t in town driving like he normally did. Sample found this suspicious. Sample identified another resident in McCleary who was familiar with Golder’s vehicle and driving habits.

...Mantes was contacted and told investigators that Golder drove a small white sports car with loud exhaust. Mentes said Golder drove around town on a regular basis. He also told investigators that on the night of June 26th 2009 at about 10:00pm he saw a small white sports car with loud exhaust on Maple street in McCleary that he thought was Golder’s. He did not see who was driving the vehicle and thought nothing of it because seeing Golder driving around was normal. Golder is the registered owner of the white 1995 Honda Del Sol, Washington License______"

So. Sample reports to LE that DG works at Beehive; DG drives a small white sportscar with loud exhaust thru town on a regular basis, but did not do so for several weeks after LB disappeared. S points LE to "Mantes" or "Mentes", who knows DG's car and driving habits.

Mantes/Mentes reports to LE that DG drives a small white sports car with loud exhaust (exactly the words of Sample's earlier report) and recalls seeing a small white sports car with loud exhaust on Maple St, June 26, 2009, at about 10:00pm, but did not see who was driving the car. M/M assumes DG was driving DG's car; he "thinks nothing of it" since this was "normal". (Why does M/M recall this event, then, when interviewed on 7/29/09, if it was a "normal" occurrence?)

The next sentence assumes the "small white sportscar with loud exhaust" seen 6/26/09 on Maple St. @ 10:00pm is Golder's 1995 Honda Del Sol, WA License _______ {"...Golder is the registered owner of THE white 1995 HDS... }

I can't see where "a white sports car with loud exhaust" was ever id'd as DG's 1995 HdS, or where DG was id'd driving on Maple St. at 10:00pm on 6/26/09.

Who else drives a loud little white car. Who else has access to DG's HdS?

I am looking at the sw now, and it says on page 4, paragraph 1:
"Golder is the registered owner of a white 1995 Honda Del Sol, Washington licens"

I do agree however it seems odd both people used the exact description of his car.

[not_my_kids]

DG's Myspace has gone to private.
http://www.myspace.com/32336074

[Track292008]

Very insightful analysis, Eyes4Crime! Thanks!

[Jules71]

This is odd.

Right across the street from KK’s is a church called Olympic Christian Center. The phone # for that church also comes up for the McCleary location of Williams Northwest Pipeline.

TGolder’s phone # also brings up Williams NW Pipeline.

Golder connects to Williams NWPL
Williams NWPL connects to Olympic Christian Center
Olympic CC is right across the street from KK’s where Lindsey was walking home from

Does this mean anything?

http://listings.allpages.com/wa-0122256033-mccleary.html

360-495-0002 - Google Search

(Lizzysf and I put these things together - thanks Lizzy!)

[A_Closer_Look]

This is odd.

Right across the street from KK’s is a church called Olympic Christian Center. The phone # for that church also comes up for the McCleary location of Williams Northwest Pipeline.

TGolder’s phone # also brings up Williams NW Pipeline.

Golder connects to Williams NWPL
Williams NWPL connects to Olympic Christian Center
Olympic CC is right across the street from KK’s where Lindsey was walking home from

Does this mean anything?

http://listings.allpages.com/wa-0122256033-mccleary.html

360-495-0002 - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&q=+360-495-0002&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)

Good find!

[A_Closer_Look]

OK, thinking about this church/NWPL/G. Family phone number connection.... this would be one heck of a coincidence in my opinion.

Does any local know whether or not you can see KK's house, or at least someone on Maple through the trees that seem to separate the church lot from Maple?

[Knox]

Olympic CC, isn't he the pastor we were looking at? Initials are WW.

[A_Closer_Look]

Olympic CC, isn't he the pastor we were looking at? Initials are WW.

I did a lot of research on this man (WW) early on, and he is with Evergreen CC. The two communities might be related, but I never saw anything to support that.

[Knox]

Thanks Closer, too many POI's ... Curiouser and Curiouser!

[Jules71]

Olympic CC in McCleary has a fb page. I am looking at that now...

[Knox]

Company Contacts
Contact Name
Brian Orffer (http://www.manta.com/coms2/page_cse?cx=000513454314247386359%3Aarvxicegnim&cof=FORID%3A11&q=Brian%20Orffer%20Olympic%20Christian%20Ctr&sa=Search), Religious Leader

Olympic Christian Ctr Business Information


(http://www.manta.com/company/mm59v4k#)
Olympic Christian Ctr is a private company categorized under Pentecostal Church and located in Mccleary, WA. Our records show it was established in 1924* and incorporated in Washington*. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of unknown and employs a staff of approximately 1 to 4.

http://www.manta.com/company/mm59v4k

[scandi]

I am looking at the sw now, and it says on page 4, paragraph 1:
"Golder is the registered owner of a white 1995 Honda Del Sol, Washington licens"

I do agree however it seems odd both people used the exact description of his car.

Hi, I really don't see anything odd about this. Neither statement was a direct quote, right? And there is only one way to describe the car, color, size and sound. I think the officer who dictated the Affidavit used the same verbage as their descriptions amounted to the same thing, IMO.

[Knox]

Scandi, haven't we seen the name of the religious leader listed above? Sounds familiar.

[scandi]

Scandi, haven't we seen the name of the religious leader listed above? Sounds familiar.

Watne comes to mind and I don't have time to run and check. Sorry Knox. xox


ETA: I went and looked anyway, and it is Wayne Watne. He evidently lives right around the corner from her house and did refuse to take a LDT, saying acc to STRONGARM that he loved her, so why would he hurt her!

It is in the comments: http://a11news.com/2106/lindsey-baum/

[JenniferO]

I had the "pleasure" of meeting WW for the first time this weekend..

[Knox]

Maybe I'm losing my mind ... Pretty sure I have seen that name mentioned, maybe it was in a PM.

[Track292008]

Scandi, haven't we seen the name of the religious leader listed above? Sounds familiar.

His name was mentioned quite prominently earlier in the investigation. He had befriended Josh Baum prior to Lindsey's disappearance, presided over (I believe) an early vigil for Lindsey and was generally involved in the search effort. And I just noticed that one of his affiliated centers -- Evergreen -- seems to be the place where the searchers were to meet this past weekend. So I guess he is still involved.

"Cuirouser and curiouser," I agree! MOO.

[eyes4crime]

Company Contacts
Contact Name
Brian Orffer (http://www.manta.com/coms2/page_cse?cx=000513454314247386359%3Aarvxicegnim&cof=FORID%3A11&q=Brian%20Orffer%20Olympic%20Christian%20Ctr&sa=Search), Religious Leader

Olympic Christian Ctr Business Information


(http://www.manta.com/company/mm59v4k#)
Olympic Christian Ctr is a private company categorized under Pentecostal Church and located in Mccleary, WA. Our records show it was established in 1924* and incorporated in Washington*. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of unknown and employs a staff of approximately 1 to 4.

http://www.manta.com/company/mm59v4k

Hi Knox - I just did a background check on Brian O...a PO box, an address on Beck (relative?) and one other came up. On background reports one usually gives relatives or friends for reference or as contacts. On one of Brian's background checks, he gave the name of a friend living on FIR street. Early on we sleuthed that address and found that the people living there have a relative who is a registered SO. The SO lives in Shelton and I just can't forget him. momtective put up his picture. He's short, round, and looks like a trusted old grandpa. I always thought he could have been visiting that night. just some thought. probably nothing but I can't get this old guy out of my mind.

[Jules71]

Just to be clear, we have not found a connection between WW and B Orffer.

[Jules71]

Hi Knox - I just did a background check on Brian O...a PO box, an address on Beck (relative?) and one other came up. On background reports one usually gives relatives or friends for reference or as contacts. On one of Brian's background checks, he gave the name of a friend living on FIR street. Early on we sleuthed that address and found that the people living there have a relative who is a registered SO. The SO lives in Shelton and I just can't forget him. momtective put up his picture. He's short, round, and looks like a trusted old grandpa. I always thought he could have been visiting that night. just some thought. probably nothing but I can't get this old guy out of my mind.

Hmmmm... interesting.

[eyes4crime]

Hmmmm... interesting.

It is very interesting Jules71 - because he puts down a friend on FIR street who has a relative from Shelton who is a registered SO. If someone was leaving
FIR street, would they go past the church and past KK's house or down that street. The guy Brian O gave as a friend has the same last name as this sex offender. Yikes!.

[eyes4crime]

Thomas' (SO) name and picture has been put on the Lindsey thread many times before....can we put it up again? I see no problem with Brian O knowing people on FIR, but what if this sex offender was visiting that night...what if he even remotely knows Brian O and stopped by the church? Or went there with his family? this guy is a short, roly poly, grey haired, Santa type sex offender. He raped two little girls while babysitting. Maybe he was visiting that night!

[cyberswept]

Watne comes to mind and I don't have time to run and check. Sorry Knox. xox


ETA: I went and looked anyway, and it is Wayne Watne. He evidently lives right around the corner from her house and did refuse to take a LDT, saying acc to STRONGARM that he loved her, so why would he hurt her!

It is in the comments: http://a11news.com/2106/lindsey-baum/

Can anyone provide a media or LE link that WW refused to take a LDT? The comments on a story are not source enough. Thanks.

[momtective]

Thomas' (SO) name and picture has been put on the Lindsey thread many times before....can we put it up again? I see no problem with Brian O knowing people on FIR, but what if this sex offender was visiting that night...what if he even remotely knows Brian O and stopped by the church? Or went there with his family? this guy is a short, roly poly, grey haired, Santa type sex offender. He raped two little girls while babysitting. Maybe he was visiting that night!

I have the pic but I've already had one T/O and I don't want another one...lol
If a mod say's it's okay, I'll put it back up.

[eyes4crime]

I have the pic but I've already had one T/O and I don't want another one...lol
If a mod say's it's okay, I'll put it back up.

Be careful momtective - you'll find yourself sitting in a corner lol lol

I have the pic also. And the names of the people who are in that house on FIR street who are related to the SO. I can't get Thomas out of my mind, just when I sort of forget his name, it comes back up again.

Are we supposed to protect sex offenders on this thread? Ones who have such a connection to relatives in McCleary? I don't want us to have T/O either so let's wait until somebody can give us the go head!! :banghead:

[scandi]

Can anyone provide a media or LE link that WW refused to take a LDT? The comments on a story are not source enough. Thanks.

Hi Cyber, No I can't which is why a put a link to that comment. Should I call the guy and ask him where he got the info? LOL I am just :crazy: enough to do that on my own accord. xox

[Knox]

Hi Cyber, No I can't which is why a put a link to that comment. Should I call the guy and ask him where he got the info? LOL I am just :crazy: enough to do that on my own accord. xox

Scandi I did some lite searching and I can't find a news article that verify's WW's refusal to take a poly. The statement seemed to start at SM and worked it's way out.

[kageykaren]

I feel like I can see you both on your tip toes not wanting to be naughty with a big bust your gut BUT! This is for a mod BUT! I think I remember if he is on a registry for SO's it is allowed. Wouldn't some of these be our POI to discuss if they had arrest of any kind without being accusitory but more imformative as to the 4th degree of separation to knowing Lindsey? This is interesting stuff. Does anyone remember the name of TG's church? I only remember her saying the pastors name was Tim. With these all forgiving self made churches offering programs to help sexual addiction,, booze, drugs, seems excessive in and around there, until you see the amount of SO's. Maybe it's time to look at some churches memberships, cause everyone is looking like kin to another. I'm completely drained . How do you guys do this? Great sluething. Seriously, are there any cult like meetings in the country that locals may have heard of? I really do have a legitate reason for asking. Also making a family tree type board you'd see in court, scanning it and posting it , using only initials would be kool.

[scandi]

Scandi I did some lite searching and I can't find a news article that verify's WW's refusal to take a poly. The statement seemed to start at SM and worked it's way out.

HI Knox, The comment in the King5 article was made by STRONGARM, the guy who lives about a 1/4 mile down Old Sand Creek Rd from the Golders. It is heresay I know, and the only way to verify that is to talk to the guy and see where he got his inside info, or to call LE. I would never call LE about that but would call the commentor.


ETA: Yikes, it wasn't King5 but rather from the Channel 11 site: http://a11news.com/2106/lindsey-baum/

ETA2 I just learned that it is Bosscat2 who lives within 1/4 mile of the Golders. I feel like a dumkoff LOL OK, straightened out now. It still would be interesting to see a plat of 'Bosscat2's' property on Overlake Dr in McCleary.

[boondock]

HI Knox, The comment in the King5 article was made by STRONGARM, the guy who lives about a 1/4 mile down Old Sand Creek Rd from the Golders. It is heresay I know, and the only way to verify that is to talk to the guy and see where he got his inside info, or to call LE. I would never call LE about that but would call the commentor.


ETA: Yikes, it wasn't King5 but rather from the Channel 11 site: http://a11news.com/2106/lindsey-baum/

I believe the STRONGARM person is not in McCleary, but did make the post you are referring to. The person who might live in McCleary is the poster Bosscat2, which I don't think made any reference to WW.

Sorry, all these names get confusing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jules71]

I believe the STRONGARM person is not in McCleary, but did make the post you are referring to. The person who might live in McCleary is the poster Bosscat2, which I don't think made any reference to WW.

Sorry, all these names get confusing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.

[scandi]

You are correct.

:banghead: I thought they were all the same person as I thought Bosscat posted the STRONGARM posts. :crazy::crazy::crazy: lol Thanks Jules.

[TakeNote]

I feel like I can see you both on your tip toes not wanting to be naughty with a big bust your gut BUT! This is for a mod BUT! I think I remember if he is on a registry for SO's it is allowed. Wouldn't some of these be our POI to discuss if they had arrest of any kind without being accusitory but more imformative as to the 4th degree of separation to knowing Lindsey? This is interesting stuff. Does anyone remember the name of TG's church? I only remember her saying the pastors name was Tim. With these all forgiving self made churches offering programs to help sexual addiction,, booze, drugs, seems excessive in and around there, until you see the amount of SO's. Maybe it's time to look at some churches memberships, cause everyone is looking like kin to another. I'm completely drained . How do you guys do this? Great sluething. Seriously, are there any cult like meetings in the country that locals may have heard of? I really do have a legitate reason for asking. Also making a family tree type board you'd see in court, scanning it and posting it , using only initials would be kool.

here is the church info i think you wanted.....it doesnt say Tena but it does have part of her hat name.....and also has the last name of DG girlfriend :)

hope that helps

http://www.turningpointolympia.com/Download_Files/DaylightPrayingTime-Guide07.pdf

there are other web sites for them as well.....

[cyberswept]

Hi Cyber, No I can't which is why a put a link to that comment. Should I call the guy and ask him where he got the info? LOL I am just :crazy: enough to do that on my own accord. xox

No problem Scandi, I am just trying to establish rumor from fact. I was unable to locate any info on WW refusing a LDT, so I was simply asking if anyone had better luck than me. If he did indeed refuse, I'd sure like to know why, but I feel we need to establish the answer to the LDT first.

[lizzysf]

I have come full circle with connections in McCleary...TG to NWPL to NW Trucking to CG to WG (brother of CG) to OCC to BO to JG to Ben PE to 65 Larson Rd Warehouse to..etc. etc. LOTS of ties to the same numbers/adresses/people in common...
The best I can surmise is:
1. Yes, they are all inter-connected
2. McCleary is an area heavily connected to pipeline and trucking industry with common connections...with several links to the Golders..

Lindsey's disappearance could be related to a complex local conspiracy or it is a single occurence related to only one acting abducter.

The more I search, the more connections I find... the more I think this is just small town industry innocent connections..

I think it was an isolated, single-handed abduction...no conspiracy.

[coastal]

here is the church info i think you wanted.....it doesnt say Tena but it does have part of her hat name.....and also has the last name of DG girlfriend :)

hope that helps

http://www.turningpointolympia.com/Download_Files/DaylightPrayingTime-Guide07.pdf

there are other web sites for them as well.....
From your link:

>>>snip
"...Pray for our trustees, Rob Rice, Cynthia Webb and Mike Shelton and for
financial decisions, especially regarding the new property. We need wisdom
to excel at being good stewards.

..."Prayer requests concerning our property:

...Praise God that the site work (including sidewalk along Hawks Prairie
road, building foundation prep and parking lot) is continuing and that
we are closer to starting construction on the building. Continue to pray
for wisdom to plan for additional resources to finish our building."

...Pray for the building team as they continue with site and building plans.
Check Pastor Thomas’ blog for latest details on progress
http://turningpointbuildingproject.blogspot.com/

...The land next to our property is still on the market. Pray that God will
somehow allow us to acquire it, and if not, that he would provide us
with a good neighbor.

<<<snip

I don't need an answer here, but have the area around Hawks Prairie Road, and the land next to the church's property there, been searched?

[concentric]

No problem Scandi, I am just trying to establish rumor from fact. I was unable to locate any info on WW refusing a LDT, so I was simply asking if anyone had better luck than me. If he did indeed refuse, I'd sure like to know why, but I feel we need to establish the answer to the LDT first.

I think many of us who have been here reading from the beginning of Lindsey's disappearance continue to have concerns regarding WW.

[Jules71]

I think many of us who have been here reading from the beginning of Lindsey's disappearance continue to have concerns regarding WW.

I think JenniferO said she had the "pleasure" of meeting him at the search this past weekend. What are her thoughts/impressions of him?

[concentric]

I'm beginning to think that someone took her away from the McCleary area, maybe on private property. Even if LE had suspicions about someone and some area, they couldn't question or search unless they had probable cause, right?

If that person had no criminal record, then LE couldn't search, right?

[scandi]

I'm beginning to think that someone took her away from the McCleary area, maybe on private property. Even if LE had suspicions about someone and some area, they couldn't question or search unless they had probable cause, right?

If that person had no criminal record, then LE couldn't search, right?

Hi Concentric, I don't think they would need probable cause as in getting a SW. If LE has learned something suspicious about someone I believe they have every right to go to that person's property and converse with them, being very observant about what they notice at their property or in the home if they are invited in. Depending on how strongly LE feels, I think they can also ask the person to come down to the station to answer some questions.

Then if LE feels there is something there, they can ask a judge for a SW based on the probable cause they have. The cell phone SW was very simple I would assume. Not all SW's are as all encompassing as we saw as that involved in the recent search. That was major with many circumstantial probable causes rolled into one as I see it.

I could be wrong about all this. ;} I do think it is how the FBI works, and of course they temper the possible gain to the case as opposed to spooking someone which might deter the investigation. xox

[JenniferO]

I think JenniferO said she had the "pleasure" of meeting him at the search this past weekend. What are her thoughts/impressions of him?


I appreciated the fact that he came to the center and helped. Besides going out to search he also donated some supplies we needed.

Other than that I really have no opinion of him. :)

[cyberswept]

I appreciated the fact that he came to the center and helped. Besides going out to search he also donated some supplies we needed.

Other than that I really have no opinion of him. :)

Is this the first time he has ever shown up to search?

[JenniferO]

Is this the first time he has ever shown up to search?

I believe so.

He came on Saturday (he was out walking his dog and stopped to visit). He only stayed a minute and said he needed to get home.
He showed up on Sunday, went out on a very short search and then left.

[Sharyne]

I'm curious. If the Golders have lived there for a few generations, are they what one would consider wealthy? Do they have what would be considered "connections" if they are wealthy? TIA

[cyberswept]

I'm curious. If the Golders have lived there for a few generations, are they what one would consider wealthy? Do they have what would be considered "connections" if they are wealthy? TIA

From what we have seen, they would not be considered wealthy. As far as connections go, they could have lots of friends around having been in the area for many years.

There are extensive threads here that would probably answer a lot of your questions. I'd reserve a day for reading though as there is a lot. Just use the search feature and type in Lindsey Baum.

[Sharyne]

From what we have seen, they would not be considered wealthy. As far as connections go, they could have lots of friends around having been in the area for many years.

There are extensive threads here that would probably answer a lot of your questions. I'd reserve a day for reading though as there is a lot. Just use the search feature and type in Lindsey Baum.

Thank you. I haven't read a lot of the threads, that is true. I was doing that at another site and just got tired of reading all the rumors and nitpicking between posters. I try to just read what are considered facts and descriptions of the area and events.

[Knox]

I'm curious. If the Golders have lived there for a few generations, are they what one would consider wealthy? Do they have what would be considered "connections" if they are wealthy? TIA

Not sure if this is factual, but we know from APN searches that the properties (TG/CG) were listed as follows "TG ET AL". I always wondered if that meant the property was from her side of the family, not the Golders. Have no idea what TG's maiden name was, but bet Momtective knows ...

[lizzysf]

Not sure if this is factual, but we know from APN searches that the properties (TG/CG) were listed as follows "TG ET AL". I always wondered if that meant the property was from her side of the family, not the Golders. Have no idea what TG's maiden name was, but bet Momtective knows ...
TG's maiden name starts with a V and can be found in many searches and all the records on the property are at the WA state records site.. all passed from the "V" family name.

[momtective]

Not sure if this is factual, but we know from APN searches that the properties (TG/CG) were listed as follows "TG ET AL". I always wondered if that meant the property was from her side of the family, not the Golders. Have no idea what TG's maiden name was, but bet Momtective knows ...

No real wealth that I can find, they own a little property but that's about it. As for the last name I don't know if I can post it here without violating TOS. I do know it though.

[Knox]

Thanks lizzysf and Momtective :blowkiss:
Two super-sleuthers, those girls, YEP-YEP!!

[fleececreations]

Et all means that the property is in more than one or two peoples names. usually they use et call when its owned by three or more people.

[Knox]

Could be in lieu of a trust or the "others" don't want their names to be on a public record.

[scandi]

Not sure if this is factual, but we know from APN searches that the properties (TG/CG) were listed as follows "TG ET AL". I always wondered if that meant the property was from her side of the family, not the Golders. Have no idea what TG's maiden name was, but bet Momtective knows ...

I bet she does too http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dirtbox/pics/muttley.gif She always brings great info to the forum. We are so fortunate as we have many great researchers here. xox

[scandi]

I'm curious. If the Golders have lived there for a few generations, are they what one would consider wealthy? Do they have what would be considered "connections" if they are wealthy? TIA

Hi Sharyne, Nice to meet you, and WELCOME to WEBSLEUTHS! I don't think the Golders have been there for generations. I would say the families of the founding fathers have been which would be about 100+ years or so. They have to be 'newbies' compared to that ;}

[cyberswept]

Thank you. I haven't read a lot of the threads, that is true. I was doing that at another site and just got tired of reading all the rumors and nitpicking between posters. I try to just read what are considered facts and descriptions of the area and events.

The reason I joined this board is because it was not full of the drama I saw other places. It really is kept to a minimum. You won't find much of that, if any, but there is some great information and ideas on Lindsey here. The mods also do a great job of regulating the site.

Oh and welcome to the forum. Always good to have more eyes and ears on board. :)

[hyldo]

Not sure if this is factual, but we know from APN searches that the properties (TG/CG) were listed as follows "TG ET AL". I always wondered if that meant the property was from her side of the family, not the Golders. Have no idea what TG's maiden name was, but bet Momtective knows ...

Et al. is an abbreviation for the latin term et alia meaning "and others".

[Knox]

Et al. is an abbreviation for the latin term et alia meaning "and others".

Maybe my point was lost. It is said the Golder family has been in the area for generations. A member asked if they (Golder's) were wealthy. Some one else answered that it did not appear so but they do own property in the area. My point is that the property *may* be owned by TG's family and not the Golder side of the family. I don't know this, purely speculation on my part.

[Sharyne]

Hi Sharyne, Nice to meet you, and WELCOME to WEBSLEUTHS! I don't think the Golders have been there for generations. I would say the families of the founding fathers have been which would be about 100+ years or so. They have to be 'newbies' compared to that ;}

Thank you for the welcome :) I used to read here a lot several years ago (mostly about Jon Benet) and always remember liking your posts.

[Sharyne]

The reason I joined this board is because it was not full of the drama I saw other places. It really is kept to a minimum. You won't find much of that, if any, but there is some great information and ideas on Lindsey here. The mods also do a great job of regulating the site.

Oh and welcome to the forum. Always good to have more eyes and ears on board. :)

Thank you for the welcome, also.
True, the more minds - hopefully the more ideas/theories. I usually come up with the most unlikely...but rarely now and then am right. :)

[Knox]

Thank you for the welcome, also.
True, the more minds - hopefully the more ideas/theories. I usually come up with the most unlikely...but rarely now and then am right. :)

I'm interested in hearing your ideas and theories Sharyne. Things are too quiet here the last few days.

[Knox]

I believe it's ok to post this, it's a public record, if not let me know and I'll remove it.
http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov/ViewRecord.aspx?RID=68B4FCA4E1BCF66A03380A974E8F9B D9
http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov/ViewRecord.aspx?RID=37421316F8399F45B5F596485FA4B4 7D

[scandi]

I believe it's ok to post this, it's a public record, if not let me know and I'll remove it.
http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov/ViewRecord.aspx?RID=68B4FCA4E1BCF66A03380A974E8F9B D9
http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov/ViewRecord.aspx?RID=37421316F8399F45B5F596485FA4B4 7D



Hi Knox, Do you read that as Tena was deeded this property by someone in her family in 2001 and then took out a mortgage on it in 2005?

[Knox]

Hi Knox, Do you read that as Tena was deeded this property by someone in her family in 2001 and then took out a mortgage on it in 2005?

Miss Scandi, my forte is not interpreting the legal language associated with RE and Deeds, lol. I was hoping another member would interpret. :)

[Jules71]

I believe it's ok to post this, it's a public record, if not let me know and I'll remove it.
http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov/ViewRecord.aspx?RID=68B4FCA4E1BCF66A03380A974E8F9B D9
http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov/ViewRecord.aspx?RID=37421316F8399F45B5F596485FA4B4 7D

Do you notice the other names at the top of the search results?

[Jules71]

Et al. is an abbreviation for the latin term et alia meaning "and others".

I just noticed when I searched my property info, it came up with ET AL after me and hubby's names. It's just us - there are no others (unless you count the bank).

[Knox]

Do you notice the other names at the top of the search results?

It looks like the property belongs to the V Family not the G Family.

[Sharyne]

I'm interested in hearing your ideas and theories Sharyne. Things are too quiet here the last few days.

Thanks for your interest. This case just confuses me so much. My only thoughts were that 'on the surface' DG sounds like he could so very easily be guilty of LB's disappearance - not necessarily that she isn't alive(regarding her mother's feeling that she's still alive). More that he somehow has somebody's influence to clear him of any involvement, hence wondering if a wealthy family or a 'power family' is helping him.

[scandi]

It looks like the property belongs to the V Family not the G Family.

That V is Tena's maiden name.

[Knox]

That is correct Scandi :)



Thanks Sharyne, you may be right but I don't see any "connections".
DG hasn't even bothered to register to vote ... how old is he, 23? Also, given the fact he still lives at home and according to his MS has an affiliation for drugs and alcohol, I just don't see him as politically correct or a worthy of defending.:waitasec:

Just venting, not aimed at you directly :)

[eyes4crime]

Thanks for your interest. This case just confuses me so much. My only thoughts were that 'on the surface' DG sounds like he could so very easily be guilty of LB's disappearance - not necessarily that she isn't alive(regarding her mother's feeling that she's still alive). More that he somehow has somebody's influence to clear him of any involvement, hence wondering if a wealthy family or a 'power family' is helping him.

Hi Sharyne! Welcome...you are so right - this case is confusing. DG could be guilty as all heck, but he's so dang sloppy in his criminal behavior...I highly doubt it he's the one....but wow, he sure has some pathetic behavior, such as stalking mom Baum!!! I know I can't throw him out as a possibility.

It really does feel as though he is being protected doesn't it...maybe the entire family.

[Knox]

DG's mood on MS is a little more appropriate to the circumstances and not quite so smart-aleck as before; NUMB

[Sharyne]

That is correct Scandi :)



Thanks Sharyne, you may be right but I don't see any "connections".
DG hasn't even bothered to register to vote ... how old is he, 23? Also, given the fact he still lives at home and according to his MS has an affiliation for drugs and alcohol, I just don't see him as politically correct or a worthy of defending.:waitasec:

Just venting, not aimed at you directly :)

By connections I meant someone in his family/relatives.
No problem, vent away...missing and murdered children can easily bring out that emotion.

Hi Sharyne! Welcome...you are so right - this case is confusing. DG could be guilty as all heck, but he's so dang sloppy in his criminal behavior...I highly doubt it he's the one....but wow, he sure has some pathetic behavior, such as stalking mom Baum!!! I know I can't throw him out as a possibility.

It really does feel as though he is being protected doesn't it...maybe the entire family.

Thank you for welcoming me :)
Yes, I was thinking family. I'm sure they're not too happy with his current reputation and would prefer to keep the notoriety to a minimum.

[SarahC]

An article in The Daily World No break in Lindsey Baum case after recent search (http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2009/10/06/local_news/doc4acb87b413b68310515420.txt) is worth reading, I especially found this bit interesting (I added the bolding):

The Sept. 25 search of two neighboring homes on the property was based on a “culmination of a lot of information,” Scott said. The evidence could clear the man as easily as it incriminates him, but investigators cannot completely rule out the man until the results are returned.

“To say he is no longer a person of interest may be an exaggeration as well,” he said.

[Knox]

From that same article referenced by SarahC above. I did not notice the mention of "Newspaper Articles" before. I wonder if that mean's the articles were cut out of the paper or just that the newspaper's themselves were saved? Who saved them? I guess TG could have been saving them for later reference, but if they were found in DG's room; remember the statement in the PCA about his obsession with the case. Not to mention, re-reading the articles and looking at pictures of Lindsey could serve as a way to reconnect/relive a moment.

"The receipts list computers, cameras, marijuana, children’s clothing, a .22 caliber rifle, used condoms, a sex toy, paperwork and records, bedding materials, vacuum filters, newspaper articles about Lindsey’s disappearance and dozens of other items."
http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2009/10/06/local_news/doc4acb87b413b68310515420.txt

[kageykaren]

Knox you know I can't link to this and can only share what was said to me. The newspaper was an older Daily World discussing the case. It was stated that it was in the top of the garbage in a wastebasket. The supposed news papers were old in stacks for the burn barrel but there were burn bands causing them to not get burned. I'm thinking the investigation may be leaning towards this family or their son knowing others who may be involved. I haven't seen anyone trying to find out who DG's friends are in town or surrounding towns. Were any intown buddies at the barbeque to support an alibi for DG or themselves? DG's lived there for along time and must have had friends in town to hang with. Maybe those friends were the informants or part of the crime. Also it was said that the porn rags were also stacked at the abandon property and they were 1970's playboy, penthouse. The family as it was told to me told the peace officer to keep everything as the items were ready for the dump. :waitasec: Remember the source wasn't forthright with me before the SW. :innocent:

[scandi]

Knox you know I can't link to this and can only share what was said to me. The newspaper was an older Daily World discussing the case. It was stated that it was in the top of the garbage in a wastebasket. The supposed news papers were old in stacks for the burn barrel but there were burn bands causing them to not get burned. I'm thinking the investigation may be leaning towards this family or their son knowing others who may be involved. I haven't seen anyone trying to find out who DG's friends are in town or surrounding towns. Were any intown buddies at the barbeque to support an alibi for DG or themselves? DG's lived there for along time and must have had friends in town to hang with. Maybe those friends were the informants or part of the crime. Also it was said that the porn rags were also stacked at the abandon property and they were 1970's playboy, penthouse. The family as it was told to me told the peace officer to keep everything as the items were ready for the dump. :waitasec: Remember the source wasn't forthright with me before the SW. :innocent:

Hi Karen, I think I know your source and believe if it is her she was certainly prejudiced in favor of the Golder family. Some RUMORS say this site owner was a relative or friend of TG. I don't think that is true, but do believe she got a lot of info thrown at her, some of which was true and the rest what the Golders wanted out there to throw suspicion away from their family.

I think this might be the same gal who put out there the witness who saw Lindsey was in fear if it came out what she saw or learned that evening. Something like that in meaning, not exact. It may also be a RUMOR, but it did start many of us thinking about the neighbors from KK's down to the Beehive and any connection they might have to any players in the case.

And the reason is KK said a lady {friend} was visiting her friend who lived a few doors down from KK when she witnessed the fight and sent Josh home. And she was the same person who saw Lindsey walking home. I would love to know what she saw and think if we could make a connection on Maple to Dale everything would start to come together. IMO IMO & IMO lol

[scandi]

From that same article referenced by SarahC above. I did not notice the mention of "Newspaper Articles" before. I wonder if that mean's the articles were cut out of the paper or just that the newspaper's themselves were saved? Who saved them? I guess TG could have been saving them for later reference, but if they were found in DG's room; remember the statement in the PCA about his obsession with the case. Not to mention, re-reading the articles and looking at pictures of Lindsey could serve as a way to reconnect/relive a moment.

"The receipts list computers, cameras, marijuana, children’s clothing, a .22 caliber rifle, used condoms, a sex toy, paperwork and records, bedding materials, vacuum filters, newspaper articles about Lindsey’s disappearance and dozens of other items."
http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2009/10/06/local_news/doc4acb87b413b68310515420.txt

Wouldn't you think 'newspaper articles' would imply they had been cut out of the paper? That's how I would read that ;}

[Knox]

http://oaspub.epa.gov/enviro/fii_master.fii_retrieve?county_name=grays%20harbor&state_code=WA&all_programs=YES&program_search=1&report=1&page_no=1&output_sql_switch=TRUE&database_type=PCS

Thought I would put this up to look at. There are some potential spots to look at, Marys River Lumber for instance caught my eye. Each location has a map that you can change to aerial.

[kageykaren]

Hi Karen, I think I know your source and believe if it is her she was certainly prejudiced in favor of the Golder family. Some RUMORS say this site owner was a relative or friend of TG. I don't think that is true, but do believe she got a lot of info thrown at her, some of which was true and the rest what the Golders wanted out there to throw suspicion away from their family.

I think this might be the same gal who put out there the witness who saw Lindsey was in fear if it came out what she saw or learned that evening. Something like that in meaning, not exact. It may also be a RUMOR, but it did start many of us thinking about the neighbors from KK's down to the Beehive and any connection they might have to any players in the case.

And the reason is KK said a lady {friend} was visiting her friend who lived a few doors down from KK when she witnessed the fight and sent Josh home. And she was the same person who saw Lindsey walking home. I would love to know what she saw and think if we could make a connection on Maple to Dale everything would start to come together. IMO IMO & IMO lol Scandi I think I know who your refering to as a source. I'm stuck in the middle with you! My info came from TG on Fri. and Sat of the SW. I was in a position of stop, look and listen to her as my mind was saying this is unreal and how did I get involved and for what purpose?

[scandi]

Scandi I think I know who your refering to as a source. I'm stuck in the middle with you! My info came from TG on Fri. and Sat of the SW. I was in a position of stop, look and listen to her as my mind was saying this is unreal and how did I get involved and for what purpose?


I understand, and she was a woman on a mission from what I've read. I sure wish we would learn something new from LE! I'm ready Kagey! :D

[DotsEyes]

Before I read all the posts, I am making a suggestion - this guy drives his sporty car with the loud mufflers all over town all the time. Did anyone hear his car? Is it possible that he was stoned/drunk - whatever and hit LB with his car by accident, then scooped her up and hid her? This idea rather than abduction/rape/murder is offered only because the incident 9 years ago seems to have been isolated - he hasn't been in any trouble with the law. (I assume or we would know about it)

[Knox]

Anyone remember which member has the photobucket account with pictures, think the account name
was crankycrankerson?

[JenniferO]

Anyone remember which member has the photobucket account with pictures, think the account name
was crankycrankerson?

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/


http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Lindsey%20Baum/
:crazy:

[Knox]

Thanks Jen, do you recall what her WS screen name is? Want to ask her a question.

[JenniferO]

Thanks Jen, do you recall what her WS screen name is? Want to ask her a question.

AmandaReckonwith

[Track292008]

Before I read all the posts, I am making a suggestion - this guy drives his sporty car with the loud mufflers all over town all the time. Did anyone hear his car? Is it possible that he was stoned/drunk - whatever and hit LB with his car by accident, then scooped her up and hid her? This idea rather than abduction/rape/murder is offered only because the incident 9 years ago seems to have been isolated - he hasn't been in any trouble with the law. (I assume or we would know about it)

Could be! Perhaps he was trying to scare her a little with his big, noisy car and lost control of it while trying to maneuver it around her.

JMO.

[scandi]

Could be! Perhaps he was trying to scare her a little with his big, noisy car and lost control of it while trying to maneuver it around her.

JMO.Hi Track, I think if that had happened there would have been an obvious crime scene. Tire tracks, body fluids, fibres and maybe a slip on shoe. We haven't heard that. And this is possibly one reason LE believes Lindsey knew her abductor and got into his vehicle willingly. IMO xox

[coastal]

Before I read all the posts, I am making a suggestion - this guy drives his sporty car with the loud mufflers all over town all the time. Did anyone hear his car? Is it possible that he was stoned/drunk - whatever and hit LB with his car by accident, then scooped her up and hid her? This idea rather than abduction/rape/murder is offered only because the incident 9 years ago seems to have been isolated - he hasn't been in any trouble with the law. (I assume or we would know about it)
But the SWs included DG's noisy white sports car, and they'd have found evidence of something like that, both inside and outside the car. Perhaps another car was involved. I doubt DG cruises mainstreet McCleary alone, since the whole point to that sport is 'seeing and being seen'. Who else 'cruises'?

[ChuckMaureen]

I joined this site after Jessica Lunsford went missing. Day after day I read the blogs and followed news on that investigation. After all was said and done, Jessica's body was found within 300 feet of her home. It was concluded Jessica was probably still alive and hidden, unconscious in the perp's residence when LE was conducting house-to-house searches the first few days.

That surprised me, and emphasized a fact that many abductors are either known to the victim, or the abductor knows the victim without reciprocation.




The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's disappearance that evening:

She walks from her home with her brother and friends to a friend's house
Their goal is to determine if Lindsey will be allowed to sleep over
Along the way, a neighbor sends her brother away from the group during a squabble with Lindsey, and possibly with others in the group
The group, minus one, continues to the friend's house
15 minutes transpires during when the group learns Lindsey is not allowed to sleep over
The father of the friend sends Lindsey on her way, as it is getting late
The group leaves, minus the friend who lives at the house, it is 9:15 pm
One friend accompanies Lindsey at least part of the way back to her house
It is not reported to which direction the friend leaves from Lindsey
A neighbor on her way to work reports seeing Lindsey walking home
It is not reported if the neighbor is driving or walking or passes directly by Lindsey or talks to her
It is not reported if the neighbor indicates the friend was still with Lindsey
It is not reported if the neighbor sees Lindsey walking in the direction to her home
It is not reported if surveillance camera recordings yield relevant images
Lindsey disappears, assumedly between 6th St and her house, three line-of-sight blocks away
Lindsey's mother becomes concerned when Lindsey does not return home by 9:30 pm - 10:00 pm
Lindsey's mother begins searching for Lindsey, taking their German Shepherd with her
The German Shepherd is allowed to roam free from its leash with the intent of tracking Lindsey
It is not reported how the German Shepherd reacts during the search nor to where it roams
It is not reported if any persons initially accompany her on the search
It is not reported if Lindsey's mother encounters anyone or anything while she is searching
It is not reported if Lindsey's mother knocks on neighbors doors to inquire
It is not reported in which directions and how far Lindsey's mother searches
It is not reported if neighbor(s) assist Lindsey's mother in the search
Lindsey's mother contacts police at 10:45 pm
It is not reported if Lindsey's mother first returns home to make the call or uses a cell phone while outside the house or uses some other phone to contact police
LE does not trigger Amber Alert because Lindsey's mother can not prove or otherwise emphatically state Lindsey is an abductee
LE triggers CANS (Missing Endangered)
It is not reported if searches reveal absolute clues
It is not reported if storm drains or manholes are searched
LE performs forensic search of Lindsey's computer hard drive
Lindsey's Facebook entry is reported, includes comments regarding "nightmares" and "something bad is going to happen"
Lindsey's mother reports Lindsey is upset about her parents divorcing but otherwise is a happy, outgoing, talkative child
Thee months transpire with no reported clues progress
Search Warrant is issued for a local person and associated properties
It is reported that interviews lead LE to the local
Search Warrant is served
Local denies wrong-doing, threatens to sue LE
Local reports what LE removed from properties
It is reported the interviews reveal local's driving habits changed after Lindsey disappeared
It is reported the local was accused of attempted rape of a minor when the local also was a minor in 2000
It is not reported if local was involved with other criminally-related behavior
It is reported local was suspended from work on various occasions for misbehavior
One of the suspensions occurs during before and when Lindsey disappears
Communication records regarding local are different from normal behavior during when Lindsey disappears
It is reported the local and local's girl-friend have Facebook accounts
.......... to be continued
I hope my list is accurate, please feel free to correct as necessary!

Is this a crime of opportunity or of planning? The following questions are based on my random thoughts:


How could a perp know Lindsey would be walking home (at some point, alone) that evening?
How long was this planned?
How often did the perp sit in a vehicle or otherwise hide, remaining undetected?
Does the street now appear to be different?
Which vehicle(s) no longer park there?
Which vehicle(s) was parked there? For days on end?
How often did the perp watch from their home window, waiting for an opportunity?
From where does the perp travel to the scene of the crime?
How does the perp travel? Van? Car? Truck? Bicycle?
Which neighbor seems overly helpful now?
Which neighbor seems not to help enough now?
Has anyone recently returned from a trip?
Has anyone recently left on a trip?
Has anyone (adult) befriended Lindsey/Brother/Other children beyond what was typical before the disappearance?
Has anyone become closer with the family before or after the disappearance?
Has a neighbor recently become ill or otherwise changed behavior after the disappearance?
Is anything missing from Lindsey's bedroom, before or after the disappearance?
Did Lindsey leave on her own? I include this only to be complete.
I suspect the perp might be patient. Not dramatic, is low-key. Softspoken. Unobtrusive. Either blends in or blends out, depending on if they are a member of the community or are from elsewhere.

I want to mention the March 2009 disapearance of Nancy Moyer from Tenino, WA, only 35 miles from McCleary, WA. I know there are other WA disappearances but I am not familiar with those cases / locations and how they might or might not be relevant.

It's just that ... the Tenino case being so close to the McCleary case makes me think outside the box: is there a serial killer in the area?

[kageykaren]

Great work! Your post sure is beneficial to keeping the threads open! :)

[LORI5050]

Nice work ChuckMaureen.... :dance:

I just question this part.. Was there another person with Lindsey when she left?

The group leaves, minus the friend who lives at the house, it is 9:15 pm
One friend accompanies Lindsey at least part of the way back to her house
It is not reported to which direction the friend leaves from Lindsey

[mysticrose]

ChuckMaureen super post by the way !
I really don't think this was planned. What I do believe is that this person did know Lindsey's movement's..exp..Knowing she walked back and forth frequently from her friends home probally because she walked by this area. I think this person by chance came upon her walking along and took advantage of the situation.
One of the main things that sticks out for me with DaleG is his comment made to his friend about " Lindsey being kidnapped and dismembered " well before LE even had reported that they believed she had been kidnapped. Also the fact that his cell phone use changed from the norm that night..to me those two things stick out like a sore thumb...JMO of course

[nosylla]

Could be! Perhaps he was trying to scare her a little with his big, noisy car and lost control of it while trying to maneuver it around her.

JMO.
Are there sidewalks where she walked??

[nosylla]

I joined this site after Jessica Lunsford went missing. Day after day I read the blogs and followed news on that investigation. After all was said and done, Jessica's body was found within 300 feet of her home. It was concluded Jessica was probably still alive and hidden, unconscious in the perp's residence when LE was conducting house-to-house searches the first few days.

That surprised me, and emphasized a fact that many abductors are either known to the victim, or the abductor knows the victim without reciprocation.




The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's disappearance that evening:

She walks from her home with her brother and friends to a friend's house
Their goal is to determine if Lindsey will be allowed to sleep over
Along the way, a neighbor sends her brother away from the group during a squabble with Lindsey, and possibly with others in the group
The group, minus one, continues to the friend's house
15 minutes transpires during when the group learns Lindsey is not allowed to sleep over
The father of the friend sends Lindsey on her way, as it is getting late
The group leaves, minus the friend who lives at the house, it is 9:15 pm
One friend accompanies Lindsey at least part of the way back to her house
It is not reported to which direction the friend leaves from Lindsey
A neighbor on her way to work reports seeing Lindsey walking home
It is not reported if the neighbor is driving or walking or passes directly by Lindsey or talks to her
It is not reported if the neighbor indicates the friend was still with Lindsey
It is not reported if the neighbor sees Lindsey walking in the direction to her home
It is not reported if surveillance camera recordings yield relevant images
Lindsey disappears, assumedly between 6th St and her house, three line-of-sight blocks away
Lindsey's mother becomes concerned when Lindsey does not return home by 9:30 pm - 10:00 pm
Lindsey's mother begins searching for Lindsey, taking their German Shepherd with her
The German Shepherd is allowed to roam free from its leash with the intent of tracking Lindsey
It is not reported how the German Shepherd reacts during the search nor to where it roams
It is not reported if any persons initially accompany her on the search
It is not reported if Lindsey's mother encounters anyone or anything while she is searching
It is not reported if Lindsey's mother knocks on neighbors doors to inquire
It is not reported in which directions and how far Lindsey's mother searches
It is not reported if neighbor(s) assist Lindsey's mother in the search
Lindsey's mother contacts police at 10:45 pm
It is not reported if Lindsey's mother first returns home to make the call or uses a cell phone while outside the house or uses some other phone to contact police
LE does not trigger Amber Alert because Lindsey's mother can not prove or otherwise emphatically state Lindsey is an abductee
LE triggers CANS (Missing Endangered)
It is not reported if searches reveal absolute clues
It is not reported if storm drains or manholes are searched
LE performs forensic search of Lindsey's computer hard drive
Lindsey's Facebook entry is reported, includes comments regarding "nightmares" and "something bad is going to happen"
Lindsey's mother reports Lindsey is upset about her parents divorcing but otherwise is a happy, outgoing, talkative child
Thee months transpire with no reported clues progress
Search Warrant is issued for a local person and associated properties
It is reported that interviews lead LE to the local
Search Warrant is served
Local denies wrong-doing, threatens to sue LE
Local reports what LE removed from properties
It is reported the interviews reveal local's driving habits changed after Lindsey disappeared
It is reported the local was accused of attempted rape of a minor when the local also was a minor in 2000
It is not reported if local was involved with other criminally-related behavior
It is reported local was suspended from work on various occasions for misbehavior
One of the suspensions occurs during before and when Lindsey disappears
Communication records regarding local are different from normal behavior during when Lindsey disappears
It is reported the local and local's girl-friend have Facebook accounts
.......... to be continued
I hope my list is accurate, please feel free to correct as necessary!

Is this a crime of opportunity or of planning? The following questions are based on my random thoughts:


How could a perp know Lindsey would be walking home (at some point, alone) that evening?
How long was this planned?
How often did the perp sit in a vehicle or otherwise hide, remaining undetected?
Does the street now appear to be different?
Which vehicle(s) no longer park there?
Which vehicle(s) was parked there? For days on end?
How often did the perp watch from their home window, waiting for an opportunity?
From where does the perp travel to the scene of the crime?
How does the perp travel? Van? Car? Truck? Bicycle?
Which neighbor seems overly helpful now?
Which neighbor seems not to help enough now?
Has anyone recently returned from a trip?
Has anyone recently left on a trip?
Has anyone (adult) befriended Lindsey/Brother/Other children beyond what was typical before the disappearance?
Has anyone become closer with the family before or after the disappearance?
Has a neighbor recently become ill or otherwise changed behavior after the disappearance?
Is anything missing from Lindsey's bedroom, before or after the disappearance?
Did Lindsey leave on her own? I include this only to be complete.
I suspect the perp might be patient. Not dramatic, is low-key. Softspoken. Unobtrusive. Either blends in or blends out, depending on if they are a member of the community or are from elsewhere.

I want to mention the March 2009 disapearance of Nancy Moyer from Tenino, WA, only 35 miles from McCleary, WA. I know there are other WA disappearances but I am not familiar with those cases / locations and how they might or might not be relevant.

It's just that ... the Tenino case being so close to the McCleary case makes me think outside the box: is there a serial killer in the area?
Great work!

[ChuckMaureen]

Nice work ChuckMaureen.... :dance:

I just question this part.. Was there another person with Lindsey when she left?

The group leaves, minus the friend who lives at the house, it is 9:15 pm
One friend accompanies Lindsey at least part of the way back to her house
It is not reported to which direction the friend leaves from Lindsey


LORI5050: do you mean when Lindsey left the friend's house? Yes. It is reported one of her friends walked with Lindsey at least part way. This might have been no more than a 'courtesy walk' of fifty feet from the other friend's front door, or it might have been more significant, such as a block or slightly farther. It is not clarified if a neighbor witnessed seeing the courtesy-walk or if the courtesy-walk friend was interviewed or reported seeing anyone / anything at that time. It could be that residents or visitors at the friend's house stated a friend 'walked part way' with Lindsey just to lessen the impact of the fact they let Lindsey walk home alone.



The friend's father, Scott Williams, said he asked Lindsey to go home before it got too dark.

"She was here 10, 15 minutes, and then, you know, we said, 'You should probably get going before it gets dark,' and that was the last we heard of her," he said.
Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15. Another friend even walked her part of the way, but Lindsey never showed up at her home.


The above news story quote may be found here:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

[Jules71]

She walks from her home with her brother and friends to a friend's house

Has anyone heard who all made the walk over to MK's? Who all was at the video store just prior? I guess I was under the impression for some reason it was just LB, JB, and MK. I do remember tho reading about someone walking her part way home. Then I later read MK watched her as far as she could see her. I think it would be helpful to know if she left MK's alone or with someone.

[ChuckMaureen]

ChuckMaureen super post by the way !
I really don't think this was planned. What I do believe is that this person did know Lindsey's movement's..exp..Knowing she walked back and forth frequently from her friends home probally because she walked by this area. I think this person by chance came upon her walking along and took advantage of the situation.
One of the main things that sticks out for me with DaleG is his comment made to his friend about " Lindsey being kidnapped and dismembered " well before LE even had reported that they believed she had been kidnapped. Also the fact that his cell phone use changed from the norm that night..to me those two things stick out like a sore thumb...JMO of course

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

[Jules71]

I really think the area around where she was last seen needs to be searched again and again - especially after reading the stats I previously posted about distance:

A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. The initial contact site is within 1/4 mile of the victim's last known location in 80% of cases. Conversely, the distance between the initial contact site and the murder site increases to distances greater than 1/4 mile (54%). The distance from the murder site to the body recovery site again decreases, to less than 200 feet in 72 percent of cases.

[Knox]

Great info Jules, can you map that for us?

[mysticrose]

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

I will have to look for a link but I was sure it was reported to LE from her and then later she is recanting.

[Jules71]

I will have to look for a link but I was sure it was reported to LE from her and then later she is recanting.

That is what I thought also just in reading the affidavit for the sw.

[scandi]

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

I read in another blog that Dale learned this from someone who was in jail at the time.

I do not believe that Dale is not involved or LE would never have made such a big deal of the search of his parent's property. And then after they reclaimed the POI status for him {LE strategy IMO}, for an investigator/LE spokesman to be quoted in the paper as saying SS 'to believe he is not a POI could be an exaggeration', tells the tale for me!

I also always wonder about people who change their statements in a criminal case and wonder what their motivation is.


PS: I'm sorry, need to go back and find that quote. ;}

[Knox]

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

"Golder told her he could not believe that a girl had been taken and cut up and dismembered. It should be noted that the media and investigators did not believe Baum was the victim of a crime until the week following her disappearance (June 29 to July 3-4, 2009). It was initially believed she might be a run-away or had been injured and unable to get help. Stephani described Golder as being “over the top” and obsessively talking about Baum and what had happened to her; specifically that he believed she has been kidnapped and murdered. Stephanie said that he became less obsessed as July wore on."

Snipped from:Affidavit-Sept 25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

[scandi]

"Golder told her he could not believe that a girl had been taken and cut up and dismembered. It should be noted that the media and investigators did not believe Baum was the victim of a crime until the week following her disappearance (June 29 to July 3-4, 2009). It was initially believed she might be a run-away or had been injured and unable to get help. Stephani described Golder as being “over the top” and obsessively talking about Baum and what had happened to her; specifically that he believed she has been kidnapped and murdered. Stephanie said that he became less obsessed as July wore on."

Snipped from:Affidavit-Sept 25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89777)


Thanks Knox, That was a snap response for retreiving a quote and you are 'on it'!

Why would this GF say this and then change her tune? Being a part of the Affidavit I would think the investigators would have confirmed this with her as to what Dale said exactly to the word, right? KRAMS


PS: I almost take that as a quote in reverse by her the way it is stated. It might be interesting to discover who the person in jail was who told this to Dale. Iit would have to be a friend, right?

[ChuckMaureen]

But Elizabeth Olten's case seems to mirror that of a missing 10-year-old Washington girl named Lindsey Baum. Lindsey Baum was walking home from a friend's house -- a distance of about about a quarter mile or so -- when she disappeared in late June (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1899284/lindsey_baum_is_missing_10yearold_washington.html? cat=8). Police have reported that at least one witness saw the girl walking home, but a surveillance camera at a local gas station she would have passed showed no image of her.



Another girl has gone missing, on Oct 21, 2009, in St. Martin, Missouri. The news article quote, above, indicates a similarity to Lindsey's disappearance in that Elizabeth, too, was walking home from a friend's house when she disappeared. I'm including this story here because it confirms police reporting there are no images of Lindsey on surveillance camera recordings.

Elizabeth Olten is Missing: 9-Year-Old Missouri Girl Disappears Walking Home (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2314355/elizabeth_olten_is_missing_9yearold.html?cat=9)

No, I am not suggesting the cases are related, just being informative. Too many children are seemingly not properly informed and protected ... this is a sad state of affair.