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believe09
10-08-2009, 11:17 AM
I almost want to start all over again with Mr. Kyle's case. For example, he has had a lot of media attention, a lot of law enforcement attention and a lot of internet attention but it has not yielded any kind of substantial result. I want to start a thread of what we know to be true and what has the material to back it up. Perhaps once we revisit some of this, we can see where the holes are that might be preventing a conclusive result for this man....make any sense?

believe09
10-08-2009, 11:24 AM
Mr. Kyle has well documented scars. We do not know what all of the scars are from however, so let's relist them here without the speculation as to what caused them unless it has been confirmed.


Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.) XRAYS documented a 5 inch pin.
Surgical scar on front of neck.
Small round scar on left side of face near chin.

believe09
10-08-2009, 11:42 AM
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) There is anecdotal information indicating that cataract surgery may change the color of the iris, but I could not find any studies to verify this. In otherwords, I am not 100% that his eye color now is the same distinctive color it was prior to his surgery.

believe09
10-08-2009, 11:46 AM
Mr. Kyle is missing teeth:

Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side of mouth. (I do not know which teeth specifically.)
Dental XRAYS are in the NCIC database.
Mr. Kyle's fingerprints are in AFIS. His prints have been digitally and manually compared to Military Records in the event that he was active in any of the services.

believe09
10-08-2009, 11:49 AM
Mr. Kyle's Primary DNA is in CODIS. I have been told by NB that his MtDNA is located in a private database that they are choosing not to disclose. His Paternal DNA has been processed by the Family Tree DNA database in Houston, TX.

dreamweaver
10-08-2009, 12:02 PM
believe09: This is a great idea.

Found by a Burger King dumpster 6am to 6:30am, Richmond Hills, GA.
on 8/31/2004.
3 blows to right side of head.
fire ant bites.
barely conscious.
naked.
back hurt.
cataracts in eyes.
sunburned.

dreamweaver
10-08-2009, 12:06 PM
Indianapolis Memories:
Memories of Indiana state fair and grilled cheese sandwiches for a quarter.
(verified by those who remember the grilled cheese vendor)
Soldiers and Sailors monument.
Woolworth's on the Circle.
White River.
Indiana Theater.

dreamweaver
10-08-2009, 12:09 PM
Denver memories:
Univ. of CO library.
Reading Restaurant and Institutions magazine in library.
Round the Corner restaurant.
Construction of mass transit there.
....1970's to early 1980's time period....

believe09
10-08-2009, 09:36 PM
believe09: This is a great idea.

Found by a Burger King dumpster 6am to 6:30am, Richmond Hills, GA.
on 8/31/2004.
3 blows to right side of head.
fire ant bites.
barely conscious.
naked.
back hurt.
cataracts in eyes.
sunburned.

Hey Dream-thanks!!!

BK has not reviewed his medical records or EMT reports that I have been told-initially the reports were cost prohibitive to obtain and then he told me they were in possession of the Dr Phil show. I do not have independent verification of any of the above, other than he had cataract surgery and he was legally blind when he was discovered. I don't believe that he knows the exact state he was in when found either unless something has changed-he will likely sign in and let us know.

So, let make note of the sources of the above so that we can keep straight who is saying what, lol, so we know what blanks to fill in.

dreamweaver
10-08-2009, 10:16 PM
Hey Dream-thanks!!!

BK has not reviewed his medical records or EMT reports that I have been told-initially the reports were cost prohibitive to obtain and then he told me they were in possession of the Dr Phil show. I do not have independent verification of any of the above, other than he had cataract surgery and he was legally blind when he was discovered. I don't believe that he knows the exact state he was in when found either unless something has changed-he will likely sign in and let us know.

So, let make note of the sources of the above so that we can keep straight who is saying what, lol, so we know what blanks to fill in.
=====================
I thought BK answered this on questions for Benjaman thread.
I will check.

dreamweaver
10-08-2009, 10:20 PM
07-26-2009, 11:30 AM Replies: 195
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/thread_hot.gif Questions Specifically for Benjaman
Views: 6,236
Posted By Benjaman[/COLO"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
[COLOR=#000000]Dr. Phil gave us all the Medical records- there...

Dr. Phil gave us all the Medical records- there was nothing that I had already been told


Found it.
So, Benjaman K does have his medical records.
yay

Julessleuther
10-09-2009, 07:19 AM
While starting from scratch, can we revisit those that were ruled out, particularly because of eye color? Also, what has been the final concensus on military fingerprints? I ask, because I thought it had been determined that there may be evidence that not everyone was fingerprinted in the military. There is someone that was ruled out because of fingerprints that I feel we should investigate further.

believe09
10-09-2009, 08:21 AM
Can anyone find a post from Mr. Kyle or Nurse Betty, or even a clip from the EMT's, that specifically states what his physical condition was when found? I am starting to wonder if some of the media has taken on a life of it's own...for example, in the latest article by the OC Register, it states his cataracts were forming over time. IIRC, it had always been Mr. Kyle's position that his cataracts were traumatic and directly related to his condition when found.

Dream states that he had three depressions on the side of his skull-I do not recall having read that or having been told that although I am incredibly fallible given the volume of data on poor Mr. Kyle!!!

I am trying to sift out fact from speculation if that makes any sense...and to Julessleuthers point, I think that the fingerprint data on Mr. Kyle is pretty solid. If there are military personnel who have been ruled out on the basis that they should have been fingerprinted, I think we should bring them back into the pool if there are other compelling charecteristics...JMO...

believe09
10-09-2009, 08:49 AM
Snip-"An ambulance was called to the scene. "He was totally naked. He was unresponsive. When I looked at him, he had a lot of sores on him," recalls paramedic Sue Usry."-snip


OK, so here is a partial statement from a first responder regarding the fact that he had sores, no clothing and was unresponsive. She does not say fire ant bites, sunburned, or indicates he had any injuries...so lets see what we can find that documents his injuries.

Roselvr
10-09-2009, 09:12 AM
Can anyone find a post from Mr. Kyle or Nurse Betty, or even a clip from the EMT's, that specifically states what his physical condition was when found? I am starting to wonder if some of the media has taken on a life of it's own...for example, in the latest article by the OC Register, it states his cataracts were forming over time. IIRC, it had always been Mr. Kyle's position that his cataracts were traumatic and directly related to his condition when found.

Dream states that he had three depressions on the side of his skull-I do not recall having read that or having been told that although I am incredibly fallible given the volume of data on poor Mr. Kyle!!!

I am trying to sift out fact from speculation if that makes any sense...and to Julessleuthers point, I think that the fingerprint data on Mr. Kyle is pretty solid. If there are military personnel who have been ruled out on the basis that they should have been fingerprinted, I think we should bring them back into the pool if there are other compelling charecteristics...JMO...

I'm sending you a few things I have PM'd myself.
edit - your inbox is full..


single post here (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1764353&postcount=198)

8/31/04, Found behind BK, next 2 dumptser, US17, Richmond Hill, Savannah (US INT 8 Exit 87)
Markings, scar across front neck, 2 scars on elbow.
5'11", 240, large frame, brown hair, blue/green eyes.

From what I can gather and what has been mentioned he is well mannered, has knowlege of restaurant bldgs, supplies and equipment. Seems to know a lot about buildings in general.

Memories: Indiana, Colorado, 3 Brothers, name of Benjaman spelling, catholic school

Possibles (One I couldn't find ellimated or follow up on):
AJ1020 suggested Thomas Ray James, MI. What happened with this?
also, Timothy A Felton??

MaconChange posted Steve Dewey...need to discuss with Betty and Mr Kyle more to see why
they are so sure it's not him. I know for us it's easy to think it is him. But he knows what he looks like...hard for us to understand.

kaylenbabysims suggested Ronald Zellmer, kaylen? Anymore research on this?

SS-you suggested missing boater John Nance? Anything?

Dimples-you found an article about "Found Car Intesifies Search for Man"...what happened with that?
You also posted an Eric Peterson?

Mark Franzeo/CP- you all discussed a William Herbert Pear....anything?

Satemplet-Gary David Poole?

sweetpea-Larry Huff?

ShowerSinger-Kevin Muca?

KT Can-Jerry or Gerald Harlean (sp? my notes are getting sloppy

Sable-Eugene Fish?


Here are some questions I have on what has been discussed vs done:

SS-You said you would send info to Arch Dios. and info to local stations in Tulsa and OKC. Has this been done, can you copy us the emails please?

lymom3 suggested contacting today show, anyone do this yet? Please post correspondence if so?

aj1020 suggested contacting the Early Show, GMA and Today show....done? Please post correspondence if so?

Dottierainbow-you sent links to John Scoot, Wish TV....have you followed up? Can you post your correspondence?

Has anyone sent his story to WTHR or WRTV as discussed?

Oneshoe-you stated WSAV Rep said NBC/CNN picked up, can you follow up on this, please copy us will all correspondence?

MaconChange-you stated you talked with Savannah Now, Savannah PD, Richmond Hill PD, and FBI...can you please give us details ofthese conversations, including dates, whom you spoke with and a good summary of discussion?

Dimples-what happened with the MySpace incident, the final outcome?


DNA-FBI took Kyle's FINGERPRINTS and ran them in National Criminal Justice Info Serv Div. This is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

He should have his DNA taken and entered into CODIS. I have already spoke to Betty and will have this arranged at no cost to Mr Kyle.
Mr Kyle's DNA will be taken and entered in CODIS, once this is done it will run against the following indexes:
the Convicted Offender Index, Forensic Index, Arrestee Index, a Missing or Unidentified Persons Index, and a Missing Persons Reference Index.

The NE article- I know this is hitting some nerves here, HOWEVER, come on peeps....2 mill viewers..NE is not what it used to be. I think
the exposure is incredible, IMO, FWIW, and I give kudos to Benjaman and Betty for agreeing to do this story. 2 million viewers, this man is
50+, someone, somewhere, knows who is is. This is an incredible opportunity for exposure. I am onboard with it and will need volunteers to
help me weed through tips that come from the article running. christine@lightingthewayhome.org Subject Volunteer for NE article. (we will have volunteers set up to weed through then send on to more exp. volunteers (former LE) to weed through more, then on to LE/FBI whoever if tip is credible to get to that point, if that makes sense!)

Ideas that I have run across in thread that I think are good and should be pursued:
Getting Mr Kyle listed on every site possible!

SusieQ mentioned researching accidents/incidents presumed dead.

Gina M mentioned You Tube Video-I think a slideshow has been done..but I think a good video of him and story if possible (I dont' know how
to do this)

KT Can mentioned maybe he was on business trip...investigating local big businesses (we could send out emails/flyers to all)

I see you all have divided states, I say keep going, state by state, then go out to Canada then further. Great work and organization there, kudos!


The 20 yr gap has me too, need to research this more with Betty and Mr. Kyle.

I think we need extensive mapping done of the area he was found.

Here is the info on when he was first discovered:
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man (not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar
hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.

ER Docs notes by christine2448 - I'm not sure where I found this
Here is the info on when he was first discovered:
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man (not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar
hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.

believe09
10-09-2009, 09:19 AM
YOU are a goddess, Rose! Cleared out my inbox fwiw, lol.

I will check in with Christine to find her source for the ER Doc reports!

The CT scan results as stated are interesting because did Mr. Kyle have outward sign of injury or trauma at the site where the depressions were? Or did he have a previous closed head injury, say from whatever caused his neck scar or elbow pin?

Roselvr
10-09-2009, 09:46 AM
YOU are a goddess, Rose! Cleared out my inbox fwiw, lol.

I will check in with Christine to find her source for the ER Doc reports!

The CT scan results as stated are interesting because did Mr. Kyle have outward sign of injury or trauma at the site where the depressions were? Or did he have a previous closed head injury, say from whatever caused his neck scar or elbow pin?

Also look at the blog I just put online, there may be something there.

I'll see what I have saved in my documents when I get back from radiation oncology. I also think I saved links to the posts where I got the info I saved.

I tried to do it that way for later use.

I wish this forum would consider allowing gmail to be used. I keep forgetting to pull my comcast account.

just did a quick look - yes, looks like I save links to the pages with notes.
I will see about using a link site so that I can share them with you.

believe09
10-09-2009, 09:55 AM
OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???

So what if they missed the fact that he had a stroke?

carolwood
10-09-2009, 12:34 PM
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) There is anecdotal information indicating that cataract surgery may change the color of the iris, but I could not find any studies to verify this. In otherwords, I am not 100% that his eye color now is the same distinctive color it was prior to his surgery.

I have this same eye color. I can tell you, some days my eyes are blue and some days my eyes are green. If you were to ask anyone in my family what color eyes I have, they would probably say green, because this is the color they have most of the time with a dark blue ring around the iris. If you were to ask me what color eyes I have, I would say, blue/green, depends on what I am wearing.

carolwood
10-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Another thought on the eyes, my daughter has the same blue/green eyes. Her eyes are mostly med to dark blue, all depends on what she wears. Also my eyes are "glassy" compared to hers.

believe09
10-09-2009, 03:04 PM
OK gang-we are getting closer...the ER Doc Notes as posted by Christine and quoted by Rose are from an email that NB sent to a member of LE in 2007. I have the original email in my files and here is a copy paste regarding that particular report:
(The number 6 denotes the question number from the member of LE, Answer denotes NB response. I want to point out that the words I italicized are conclusions reached by NB, not by the ER dr.)
snip
6. What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police
dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a
copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant
bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17,
right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA.
The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to
the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated
8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of
this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail
it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made
it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without
the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He
said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in
Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe"
because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was
actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now. He
said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if
he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found
clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no
longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as
evidence and it is too late now.

Mr. Kyle stayed in St. Joseph's Hospital for approximately two weeks.
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed
and well-nourished middle-aged man (not a bum), although he had depressed
neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat.
His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his
condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He
was sent up to the Neuro (7th) floor. A CT scan of the head was normal
except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar
hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his
report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" -
probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they
reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very
poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had
practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He
presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or
over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.
snip

Now I am completely confused, I have to say, because I now I can see it was not the ER docs words that indicated a closed head injury, but in fact NB's. I have to believe that there would have been a note of head trauma somewhere if it was apparent. ???

Lucy's mom
10-09-2009, 03:09 PM
Hi all,

I apologize if this is a duplicate so please feel free to delete. Webleuths was mentioned in the article (minus the *s*) so I thought I would forward this over.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/says-one-fitzpatrick-2597526-dna-case

By TOM BERG
The Orange County Register
Comments | Recommend

The theories keep getting weirder.

He's a victim of 2004's Hurricane Charley.

He's a musician who supposedly "died" in 1996.

He's man who disappeared while tracking a turtle migration in 2004.

Truth is, no one knows who amnesia victim "B.K. Doe" is. Not he. Not the posters at websleuth.com. Not the viewers of Dr. Phil.

Not even DNA detective Colleen Fitzpatrick – and she's never been stumped.

"I just don't know how to find out who the guy is," says the former nuclear physicist who's written three books on finding people.

believe09
10-09-2009, 03:23 PM
This is also part of the LE email I have in my files-it would be interesting to know what Mr. Kyle recalls about his vision. The italics are again mine indicating NB's opinion I believe....
snip
"It is also interesting to note that his cataracts were not diagnosed until
approximately October of 2004. When he came out of his
unconscious/unresponsive state he would have been functionally blind. It is quite possible that he was struck on the head and became unconscious with his eyes open. The sun damage could easily have caused the cataracts.
He had other symptoms brought on from exposure to the elements including tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and elevated blood pressure. He also had apositive Babinski reflex according to the EMS report (an abnormal finding except during the first six months of life) - this would lead one to suspect neurological damage. That is probably why the EMS completely immobilized him before transporting him to the ER."
snip

Julessleuther
10-09-2009, 10:11 PM
So we really do not have actual response or medical records, just second hand information from some people interviewed? It seems that the responding officers certainly did not do their due diligence. What if he had been someone famous and they did not even investigate correctly---the media would have been all over them. To disregard clothing in the dumpster? Actually, that leads to a new train of thought. I wonder how often that dumpster would have been emptied? Could he have been in there for a day or two? Did the trash company rotate dumpsters out--new empty ones in and old ones removed? Maybe he came in on a new dumpster?? What was the trash company? Come on LE--do we really have to do your job for you?:doh: :razz: :slap:

O/T regarding the OC Register article---Did anyone here suggest he was abducted by aliens? They make us look like a bunch of crack shots! Hmmphf! IMO he was not abducted by aliens...he'd at least have memories of that, wouldn't he? Good lord! :angel:

believe09
10-10-2009, 07:34 AM
So we really do not have actual response or medical records, just second hand information from some people interviewed? It seems that the responding officers certainly did not do their due diligence. What if he had been someone famous and they did not even investigate correctly---the media would have been all over them. To disregard clothing in the dumpster? Actually, that leads to a new train of thought. I wonder how often that dumpster would have been emptied? Could he have been in there for a day or two? Did the trash company rotate dumpsters out--new empty ones in and old ones removed? Maybe he came in on a new dumpster?? What was the trash company? Come on LE--do we really have to do your job for you?:doh: :razz: :slap:

O/T regarding the OC Register article---Did anyone here suggest he was abducted by aliens? They make us look like a bunch of crack shots! Hmmphf! IMO he was not abducted by aliens...he'd at least have memories of that, wouldn't he? Good lord! :angel:

Dont stress Jules, lol-the alien comments were from the Dr Phil Message Boards...there was a big discussion regarding chip implantation and the like.

I am less on the bandwagon regarding LE not doing their job rather than simply :waitasec:. I like to try and get into their heads-why did they think he was a vagrant? If there was outward sign of a crime, why would they not follow up on it? It is what they do...police help people....even vagrants.

I am trying to reconcile whether BK was failed by everyone-first responders, LE, the ER doc, the hospitals and the JC Lewis Health Center. Beyond that, he is being failed by anyone who ever knew him who is not looking for him...on top of that, the single most astute law enforcement agency in the world (The FBI) cannot come up with the goods on him.

It would be nice to see the first reports because it would shed light on his physical state-pulse, blood pressure, bruises, scratches, wounds. Were his eyes blackened by his head injury? If there was a head injury-what if they missed a stroke or convulsice syncope or an allergic reaction to whatever the rash/ant bites...

I just feel like we are missing something-and fwiw in my experience with law enforcement and agencies that deal with people on the fringes of society (even if there is a perception of that) they do not throw these people away. I have yet to find an actual case where there has been callous disregard on the part of law enforcement...but perhaps this is the one. Who knows.

But maybe if we can look at the story with fresh eyes, there is something there that will lead to this man's previous life....

Julessleuther
10-10-2009, 12:15 PM
Thanks Believe, you are so right! What you said made me so sad, but you are right; everyone seemed to fail him, and looking at everything fresh is definitely the way to go. He reminds me of someone who could be my grandfather, and I want so much to help him find the family who loves him. We cannot fail him. :blowkiss:

I just wonder if the reason noone is looking for him is because they are no longer alive. Perhaps neighbors thought he moved; his immediate family may be dead, etc. Have we looked into car accidents, homicides, crimes around the days he was found? Perhaps he was one of the victims of a crime, and the perpetrators took him to GA, away from the crime area. Have we looked at kidnappings? Not everyone in the country has heard of his case yet---even with the coverage, it has still been limited coverage. When I tell people about BK they are shocked; they had never heard about him. Newsweek will help, but we need the Today show or 20/20 or something like that to do an expose on him.

The answer is right under our noses--I feel it in my bones...we just have to find it!

dreamweaver
10-10-2009, 03:11 PM
Dont stress Jules, lol-the alien comments were from the Dr Phil Message Boards...there was a big discussion regarding chip implantation and the like.

I am less on the bandwagon regarding LE not doing their job rather than simply :waitasec:. I like to try and get into their heads-why did they think he was a vagrant? If there was outward sign of a crime, why would they not follow up on it? It is what they do...police help people....even vagrants.

I am trying to reconcile whether BK was failed by everyone-first responders, LE, the ER doc, the hospitals and the JC Lewis Health Center. Beyond that, he is being failed by anyone who ever knew him who is not looking for him...on top of that, the single most astute law enforcement agency in the world (The FBI) cannot come up with the goods on him.

It would be nice to see the first reports because it would shed light on his physical state-pulse, blood pressure, bruises, scratches, wounds. Were his eyes blackened by his head injury? If there was a head injury-what if they missed a stroke or convulsice syncope or an allergic reaction to whatever the rash/ant bites...

I just feel like we are missing something-and fwiw in my experience with law enforcement and agencies that deal with people on the fringes of society (even if there is a perception of that) they do not throw these people away. I have yet to find an actual case where there has been callous disregard on the part of law enforcement...but perhaps this is the one. Who knows.

But maybe if we can look at the story with fresh eyes, there is something there that will lead to this man's previous life....

===================================
In looking back over posts and my own saved articles about BK,
I notice that it is said the first responders were new to the police force.
In several it says they did not check the dumpsters, but later versions say they did find clothing. But, if so, the clothing was never booked into evidence.
I am just thinking, maybe they were not up for the job.??
But then when I was new to a job, I was over vigilant, making sure I had not missed a thing.

Would Benjaman Kyle release the medical documents to one of us, say believe09?
Or at least the emergency room medical?
And if Benjaman K has the police report, would he release that copy, just to one of us?

I don't think that BK was failed by the system.
Well, maybe the police dept., in that they did not
treat the dumpster area as a possible crime scene.
But from all accounts, he was treated adequately at the e.r., hospitals and later at JC Lewis Ctr. (perhaps not after he started working for them)

But he has a lot of people working on his behalf, the FBI, local police dept., Rep. Kingston, NB, Dr Phil show, hypnotist, psychiatrists,
Colleen F, WS, and more.

True, no one, has been able to discover his identity.
Which is why this is such a puzzle.
He must be from somewhere and known some people.

Fresh eyes. Fresh eyes.

dreamweaver
10-10-2009, 03:18 PM
Thanks Believe, you are so right! What you said made me so sad, but you are right; everyone seemed to fail him, and looking at everything fresh is definitely the way to go. He reminds me of someone who could be my grandfather, and I want so much to help him find the family who loves him. We cannot fail him. :blowkiss:

I just wonder if the reason noone is looking for him is because they are no longer alive. Perhaps neighbors thought he moved; his immediate family may be dead, etc. Have we looked into car accidents, homicides, crimes around the days he was found? Perhaps he was one of the victims of a crime, and the perpetrators took him to GA, away from the crime area. Have we looked at kidnappings? Not everyone in the country has heard of his case yet---even with the coverage, it has still been limited coverage. When I tell people about BK they are shocked; they had never heard about him. Newsweek will help, but we need the Today show or 20/20 or something like that to do an expose on him.

The answer is right under our noses--I feel it in my bones...we just have to find it!
=================================================

BK reminds me of my high school friends, the ones I have not seen since we graduated.

My family knows how involved I am about Benjaman K and his amnesia, etc. But they do not show any signs of interest.
As for my friends, except for my best friend, they are just sort of aware about BK's story.

That is one reason I think people from Indiana and Colorado might be the best bet in identifying him.
Of course, there has been quite a bit of publicity there for him.

I know I have researched so much about Aug. 2004, Georiga, Aug. 2004, the nation, crimes, etc., etc..

For some reason, I think it will be a fluke, when he is identified.
Maybe he will be walking past a reporter's camera guy, the camera guy's mom is waiting for him to go to lunch, and she says,
I know him, I went to school with him in Indiana, but then he moved away.
.....drum roll....

carolwood
10-10-2009, 04:44 PM
=================================================

BK reminds me of my high school friends, the ones I have not seen since we graduated.

My family knows how involved I am about Benjaman K and his amnesia, etc. But they do not show any signs of interest.
As for my friends, except for my best friend, they are just sort of aware about BK's story.

That is one reason I think people from Indiana and Colorado might be the best bet in identifying him.
Of course, there has been quite a bit of publicity there for him.

I know I have researched so much about Aug. 2004, Georiga, Aug. 2004, the nation, crimes, etc., etc..

For some reason, I think it will be a fluke, when he is identified.
Maybe he will be walking past a reporter's camera guy, the camera guy's mom is waiting for him to go to lunch, and she says,
I know him, I went to school with him in Indiana, but then he moved away.
.....drum roll....

We have to find a way to target the senior's, 50 and above crowd, including nursing homes, imo.

believe09
10-10-2009, 04:47 PM
=================================================

BK reminds me of my high school friends, the ones I have not seen since we graduated.

My family knows how involved I am about Benjaman K and his amnesia, etc. But they do not show any signs of interest.
As for my friends, except for my best friend, they are just sort of aware about BK's story.

That is one reason I think people from Indiana and Colorado might be the best bet in identifying him.
Of course, there has been quite a bit of publicity there for him.

I know I have researched so much about Aug. 2004, Georiga, Aug. 2004, the nation, crimes, etc., etc..

For some reason, I think it will be a fluke, when he is identified.
Maybe he will be walking past a reporter's camera guy, the camera guy's mom is waiting for him to go to lunch, and she says,
I know him, I went to school with him in Indiana, but then he moved away.
.....drum roll....

Or at some point, he may, simply...remember. God Bless Him.

Roselvr
10-11-2009, 07:41 AM
respectfully snipped Not everyone in the country has heard of his case yet---even with the coverage, it has still been limited coverage. When I tell people about BK they are shocked; they had never heard about him. Newsweek will help, but we need the Today show or 20/20 or something like that to do an expose on him.

While there has been coverage, I do not feel there's been enough.
I'm in NJ, people here have not heard of him.
If he is in his 60's, I feel that someone missing him probably does not use the internet; but it's possible someone sort of related could.

It's been my intention since coming here to start a blog, get a web site up, make a new email address. I wanted to get the best information that everyone had on him, then compose a mass email that we could all send.

I know a lot of people here have done much work but looking at it with fresh eyes, there was always something I would change on the info pages.

I also wanted to post about him to a few message boards I go to; but haven't gotten that far. Same story, if I'm going to make the post, I want as much correct info as I can find because once someone opens the post, they might not come back for a 2nd look.


I just wonder if the reason noone is looking for him is because they are no longer alive. Perhaps neighbors thought he moved; his immediate family may be dead, etc. Have we looked into car accidents, homicides, crimes around the days he was found? Perhaps he was one of the victims of a crime, and the perpetrators took him to GA, away from the crime area. Have we looked at kidnappings?

The answer is right under our noses--I feel it in my bones...we just have to find it!

I also feel he's not actually in the missing persons lists; I feel the same, either his people are no longer here, too old, or that he moved away and no one realizes he's missing. I also think that due to the type of work he did, it wasn't unusual for him to be gone long periods of time.

Roselvr
10-11-2009, 07:41 AM
We have to find a way to target the senior's, 50 and above crowd, including nursing homes, imo.

I agree

believe09
10-11-2009, 04:24 PM
I want to respectfully suggest that any future email campaigns be more conservative in their approach to the facts surrounding his discovery. I think it is appropriate to say he was found unconscious next to the dumpster, I think continuing to state that he was naked is in poor taste (JMO) and that his amnesia is making it difficult for him to recapture the life he had prior to his discovery. Once we get more solid documentation of BK being a victim of a crime, we can revisit that in our communications.

My fear is that we are feeding the rumor mill with statements that are unsubstantiated and we may be preventing some real leads from being called in because people are dismissing their knowledge of him...does this make sense to you?

christine2448
10-11-2009, 05:59 PM
I want to respectfully suggest that any future email campaigns be more conservative in their approach to the facts surrounding his discovery. I think it is appropriate to say he was found unconscious next to the dumpster, I think continuing to state that he was naked is in poor taste (JMO) and that his amnesia is making it difficult for him to recapture the life he had prior to his discovery. Once we get more solid documentation of BK being a victim of a crime, we can revisit that in our communications.

My fear is that we are feeding the rumor mill with statements that are unsubstantiated and we may be preventing some real leads from being called in because people are dismissing their knowledge of him...does this make sense to you?


I agree with you 100%....stick to the facts. Y'all have been 'starting from scratch' and IMO realizing that we don't have ALL the facts here.

Roselvr
10-11-2009, 07:05 PM
I want to respectfully suggest that any future email campaigns be more conservative in their approach to the facts surrounding his discovery. I think it is appropriate to say he was found unconscious next to the dumpster, I think continuing to state that he was naked is in poor taste (JMO) and that his amnesia is making it difficult for him to recapture the life he had prior to his discovery. Once we get more solid documentation of BK being a victim of a crime, we can revisit that in our communications.

My fear is that we are feeding the rumor mill with statements that are unsubstantiated and we may be preventing some real leads from being called in because people are dismissing their knowledge of him...does this make sense to you?

I said that to you at one time.. its something I was going to change on the fliers I wanted to make. There has to be a way to say he was found with no ID without saying he wasn't wearing clothes.

believe09
10-11-2009, 07:13 PM
I said that to you at one time.. its something I was going to change on the fliers I wanted to make. There has to be a way to say he was found with no ID without saying he wasn't wearing clothes.

Thank you for reminding me that it was you-I knew it was a position I adopted because it had been pointed out to me!!!

believe09
10-11-2009, 07:19 PM
So since we are starting from scratch, I think I will start my emails and future correspondence to read:

It has been five years since "Benjaman Kyle" was located unconscious behind a Burger King in Richmond Hill, GA. Intially assumed to be a vagrant by first responders, staff at St. Joseph's Hospital in Savannah quickly discovered that this intelligent articulate man was suffering from amnesia. With no recollection of his own name or even a firm recollection of where he had come from, he has been living at the mercy of friends and former caregivers; a "Real Live Nobody" in spite of the best efforts of local police and the FBI to determine his true identity.

Mr. Kyle chose his name based on a belief that the name "Benjaman" held some significance to him and he chose the "Kyle" in order to honor the establishment he was found behind. (BK) His fingerprints have been entered into AFIS, his primary DNA entered into CODIS, his paternal DNA has been entered into genealogy websites and he has even been featured on the Dr. Phil Show and in the National Enquirer. There have been no solid leads that have uncovered his past and he is unable to work or file for benefits because he cannot prove he is an American citizen.

Won't you please help him by featuring him on your show or even on your website?

It has been five long years of struggle and searching. Five years of living off of others with nothing to give but his kind, generous heart and significant abilities. Please give him a hand and feature him so that someone, anyone, who may know him can come forward and end the nightmare of not knowing who he is and where he belongs.

Media Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjaman_Kyle

http://savannahnow.com/node/364434 (http://savannahnow.com/node/364434)
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/07/using-genetic-genealogy-to-solve-the-mystery-of-benjaman-kyle/ (http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/07/using-genetic-genealogy-to-solve-the-mystery-of-benjaman-kyle/)
http://www.indy.com/posts/benjaman-kyle-wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia (http://www.indy.com/posts/benjaman-kyle-wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia)
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1146 (http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1146)


Thank you for your time and attention!

Sincerely,

Roselvr
10-11-2009, 07:29 PM
this is from the other post I replied to... Perhaps you can make a new post saying that no one send out anything until something can be written, then everyone can copy and paste it into an email.

I feel a new post is the way to go, as well as possibly bumping the existing posts saying to please check this post here before spreading the story.

Hopefully my post tone is coming off ok, if not I apologize.
I think the work everyone has done is awesome.
Changes I am suggesting are after looking at it with new eyes.. I've said this before on how I feel about things that would be sent out. You're possibly only getting one shot, the information has to be as correct as possible.
I think that before anything goes out that it should be an organized thing.

Here are some of the things I would change on the 2 fliers I have printed out

Flier has 3 pics - one where he's leaning his arms on banister. Says Do you know this man? - Flier 1 (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Aj7wGrKX2lhHBguuph9ZEg?feat=directlink)
Websleuths link - add
No Tattoos or piercings - add
his weight - says 240 - I would broaden it some - possibly 230 - 260?
Marks scars - small round scar on left side of face near chin - include possibly from "accident"
add - skin graft scar
- possible dental work

I would rewrite the part where it starts he doesn't have any tattoos or piercings. He has vague recollection of Colorado (add dates he thinks he was there) - rewrite the whole blurb, taking things out

2 pics - left is front with mustach grey then the side shot
I would add "Featured on Dr Phil" 11/16/2008

Add the blog link for anon comments/tips
Add the video link - I would use a tiny url for this custom for Ben
Also add the possible states by linguist

Amnesia Victim Needs your help - has 7 photos - Flier 2 link (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ydqDT7ih97i3hQ_yO6y6aw?feat=directlink)
Take out naked - add that he was found without ID
pic on top left - under pic write Scar
2nd pic in oval lable it full facial hair
pic 3 - lable clean shaven
Pic 5 - bottom left - lable dark beard
pics 6 & 7 - lable - Age regression from Dr Phil show

It says - he may have been born around - take that out - I would add age - 50 -60+ and/or change year to 1946- 1956

Blog link for comments
Custom video URL


You get the picture.
I can probably do some of it while hubby is getting treatment.

Roselvr
10-11-2009, 07:40 PM
1st, I would say to people wanting to email to wait until the draft is final.
If they would like a copy of the email to please have their name added to a link so that one person can send out the whole email so that the information is all correct.

When sending, people should use the BCC feature to add email addresses so that no one is sharing email addresses on the email going out. The email will hit viral status; safe email/computing practices should be followed.


His fingerprints have been entered into AFIS, his primary DNA entered into CODIS

I would spell out what AFIS is as well as CODIS and any other terms used here that someone may not know.


Media Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjaman_Kyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjaman_Kyle)

http://savannahnow.com/node/364434 (http://savannahnow.com/node/364434)
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/07/using-genetic-genealogy-to-solve-the-mystery-of-benjaman-kyle/ (http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/07/using-genetic-genealogy-to-solve-the-mystery-of-benjaman-kyle/)
http://www.indy.com/posts/benjaman-kyle-wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia (http://www.indy.com/posts/benjaman-kyle-wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia)
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1146 (http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1146)

I would format the email with photos, so that the person has as much information to view right there without clicking links.

Someone like my MIL would have no clue what to do with it. This is the age of people needing to be targeted.

Also addition of sending on to nursing homes - the more people in states like FL or Arizona the better where older people may have retired to.
Also restaurant.

Next thought, what ever came of Canada?

mysticrose
10-11-2009, 08:40 PM
I did not see this posted here, I just came across this info on this site. It shows he remembers part of a social security # that is consistent w/ Michigan

Amnesia victim. White male btwn 50-60 yrs old. Well-mannered. Professional. Found unconscious near Burger King dumpster in the Savannah, GA area on 31 Aug 2004. Remembers part of SSN that is consistent with Michigan]

http://americasmissingadults.com/Default.asp?pagenum=27

dreamweaver
10-11-2009, 11:04 PM
http://www.psychologyinlife.com/
>snipped<
A person under hypnosis is able to recall certain bits of information, as they try to recreate the scenario in the person’s mind. Take Benjaman Kyle for example (mentioned in Part 1). He was unable to remember anything about his past life, especially not anything that could help him. After a brief session of hypnosis, he was able to recall several digits of his social security number, narrowing his hometown to somewhere in Arizona.

I thought Benjaman Kyle's ssn memories were consistent with Indiana.
But mysticrose found a site that says Michigan.
The above site says Arizona.
?????
Odd.

dreamweaver
10-11-2009, 11:09 PM
post number 205 on BK thread
believe09's info on ssn.

mysticrose
10-12-2009, 12:21 AM
This has alot of info on BK along with regression photos...I thought this was great:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjaman_Kyle

believe09
10-12-2009, 08:19 AM
I did not see this posted here, I just came across this info on this site. It shows he remembers part of a social security # that is consistent w/ Michigan

Amnesia victim. White male btwn 50-60 yrs old. Well-mannered. Professional. Found unconscious near Burger King dumpster in the Savannah, GA area on 31 Aug 2004. Remembers part of SSN that is consistent with Michigan]

http://americasmissingadults.com/Default.asp?pagenum=27


http://www.psychologyinlife.com/
>snipped<
A person under hypnosis is able to recall certain bits of information, as they try to recreate the scenario in the person’s mind. Take Benjaman Kyle for example (mentioned in Part 1). He was unable to remember anything about his past life, especially not anything that could help him. After a brief session of hypnosis, he was able to recall several digits of his social security number, narrowing his hometown to somewhere in Arizona.

I thought Benjaman Kyle's ssn memories were consistent with Indiana.
But mysticrose found a site that says Michigan.
The above site says Arizona.
?????
Odd.


post number 205 on BK thread
believe09's info on ssn.


Michigan??? 3x5-44-xxxx.

Here is my post:
snip" http://people.howstuffworks.com/soci...ty-number2.htm (http://people.howstuffworks.com/social-security-number2.htm)

So for example,
303-317 State of Indiana

318-361 State of Illinois

362-386 State of MI

387-399 State of WI

Group numbers are used to break up the area numbers into smaller groups. They are 01-99....but then it gets better. The odd numbers between 01-09 were assigned first. Then even numbers between 10-98 were assigned next. (Mr. K's group) After that, the numbers 02-08 are assigned and then 11-99, odd numbers."snip

I suppose it is possible-but I went through how and when the group numbers were assigned. The question then becomes have the numbers starting 365-44, 375-44 and 385-44 been assigned yet. The same can be said for all of the other states. Indiana assigned 315-44 in the 50's.

Arizona??? Arizona is 526-527.

believe09
10-12-2009, 08:34 AM
OK-I am going to break out the SSN stuff...so we can keep track of it.

dreamweaver
10-12-2009, 03:28 PM
fyi:
I feel like I am defending the over 60 crowd today. lol.

Many of us over 60 do know how to use the internet.
Many of us are still working full time.

Of my friends who do not use the internet,
it is because they just do not want to,
they use it at work, it is not
their thing.

Targeting nursing homes is a good idea. It may ring a bell for
one of Benjaman Kyle's school teachers, aunts or uncles,
parents of friends, etc.

dreamweaver
10-12-2009, 03:31 PM
From scratch:
Why BK was in Richmond Hill, Ga on 8/31/2004:

He would have been around 55 yrs old.
In some professions, you can retire at 55
on full pension.
Such as, policemen, school teachers, fire men,
state or federal workers, ....

I thought maybe he retired, his eyesight
was getting worse,
thought he would go and
see the ocean before he had surgery.

Just a thought.

Roselvr
10-12-2009, 06:04 PM
fyi:
I feel like I am defending the over 60 crowd today. lol.

Many of us over 60 do know how to use the internet.
Many of us are still working full time.

Of my friends who do not use the internet,
it is because they just do not want to,
they use it at work, it is not
their thing.

Targeting nursing homes is a good idea. It may ring a bell for
one of Benjaman Kyle's school teachers, aunts or uncles,
parents of friends, etc.

I'm sure it was something I said and I apologize. It probably did not read like I intended it to.

If Ben is my hubby's age - meaning 50's, Ben's parents would be in their 70's.. this is the crowd I don;'t feel uses the net like we do. My hubby's mom does not turn the puter on every day; if she remembers to check email once, twice per week; she doesn't do much more online then that. If Ben is older, then his parents are my old neighbors age, they do not have computers. My son has a great aunt, she does not have a computer or cell, she's in her late 60's.

This is what I'm basing what I said on; people in my own life.
Hopefully this came out right. lol
I know many people in their mid to late 60's that have no use for a computer. I know people older that feel the same.


I thought maybe he retired, his eyesight
was getting worse,
thought he would go and
see the ocean before he had surgery.

Didn't we have someone from the area say they wouldn't be in that area to "see the ocean"?

I don't get why he'd be in Georgia; there's so many other beaches..

dreamweaver
10-12-2009, 06:20 PM
I'm sure it was something I said and I apologize. It probably did not read like I intended it to.

If Ben is my hubby's age - meaning 50's, Ben's parents would be in their 70's.. this is the crowd I don;'t feel uses the net like we do. My hubby's mom does not turn the puter on every day; if she remembers to check email once, twice per week; she doesn't do much more online then that. If Ben is older, then his parents are my old neighbors age, they do not have computers. My son has a great aunt, she does not have a computer or cell, she's in her late 60's.

This is what I'm basing what I said on; people in my own life.
Hopefully this came out right. lol
I know many people in their mid to late 60's that have no use for a computer. I know people older that feel the same.



Didn't we have someone from the area say they wouldn't be in that area to "see the ocean"?

I don't get why he'd be in Georgia; there's so many other beaches..
=================
No apology needed.
I do know that many people do not have a computer or
just do not want to bother with it.

My parents are gone now, but I think only my mom would have been interested and that would be to talk with my sister and brother.

As for the ocean remark,
I remember lots of discussion in the BK threads about this.
Those of us who said, if he lived in Denver,
he probably would not have gone east
to see the ocean.
More than likely, he would have gone west...
to Ca, Or., or Wa.

If he did live in In, or Ks, Ok, I still don't see going to a Georgia beach, unless he combined it with something else, perhaps a convention, a new restaurant,
fishing, etc.

But he was there for some reason.

Julessleuther
10-12-2009, 09:24 PM
I, too made remarks about older people, so I apologize too. To me he does not look old, but what the heck do I know?? LOL


As far as the remark about the ocean...perhaps he actually did made it there. Jekyll Island is south of there, as is St. Simons. Tybee is a straight shot east of Savannah, as are other islands. Maybe he did not go to Georgia at all. Maybe he was in FLorida or SOuth Carolina and some how wound up there. Being so close to 95/405, someone could have dropped him from anywhere.


=================
No apology needed.
I do know that many people do not have a computer or
just do not want to bother with it.

My parents are gone now, but I think only my mom would have been interested and that would be to talk with my sister and brother.

As for the ocean remark,
I remember lots of discussion in the BK threads about this.
Those of us who said, if he lived in Denver,
he probably would not have gone east
to see the ocean.
More than likely, he would have gone west...
to Ca, Or., or Wa.

If he did live in In, or Ks, Ok, I still don't see going to a Georgia beach, unless he combined it with something else, perhaps a convention, a new restaurant,
fishing, etc.

But he was there for some reason.

dreamweaver
10-12-2009, 09:28 PM
On this thread, I know that we all discussed the fact that Hurricane Charlie
had just passed through Florida up into Georgia
on Aug. 13, 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Charley
Thinking that maybe he was in Florida and forced to leave and went to Georiga.

But, nothing came of that.

believe09
10-12-2009, 09:28 PM
From scratch:
Why BK was in Richmond Hill, Ga on 8/31/2004:

He would have been around 55 yrs old.
In some professions, you can retire at 55
on full pension.
Such as, policemen, school teachers, fire men,
state or federal workers, ....

I thought maybe he retired, his eyesight
was getting worse,
thought he would go and
see the ocean before he had surgery.

Just a thought.

Or maybe he was living in the area...even if he was not originally from GA.

Julessleuther
10-15-2009, 01:07 AM
This is what Christine stated about the scars (more detailed):

BK Physical Attributes - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Mr. Kyle has well documented scars. We do not know what all of the scars are from however, so let's relist them here without the speculation as to what caused them unless it has been confirmed.


Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.) XRAYS documented a 5 inch pin.
Surgical scar on front of neck.
Small round scar on left side of face near chin.

WholeLottaRosie
10-15-2009, 04:29 AM
AARP has a magazine and website. Maybe they could run something in the magazine that would reach older folks. My hubby just turned 50 and we joined. My mom kind of freaked the first time she saw the mag in our home- said she was used to seeing it in all her friends homes, and she was shocked that one of her kids is now old enough (or married to someone) to get it. Just a thought.

believe09
10-15-2009, 08:45 AM
This is what Christine stated about the scars (more detailed):

BK Physical Attributes - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67321)

This is an excellent post to revive-as long as we discard for now the origin of some of the scars. For example, the elbow surgery has been independently verified with an XRAY. IIRC, the guess of cervical surgery has not.

carolwood
10-15-2009, 08:55 AM
AARP has a magazine and website. Maybe they could run something in the magazine that would reach older folks. My hubby just turned 50 and we joined. My mom kind of freaked the first time she saw the mag in our home- said she was used to seeing it in all her friends homes, and she was shocked that one of her kids is now old enough (or married to someone) to get it. Just a thought.AARP has already contacted me. I passed this on to Benjaman to pass to Colleen. I felt there stipulations on writing an article was something she would like to handle.

believe09
10-15-2009, 09:55 AM
AARP has already contacted me. I passed this on to Benjaman to pass to Colleen. I felt there stipulations on writing an article was something she would like to handle.

What were the stipulations?

bosslady31
10-15-2009, 10:06 AM
I am not sure if this even matters, but as far as Mr. Kyle and the fact that he possibly has worked in or is familiar with the resteraunt industry makes me wonder about a liquor liscence. I know when I worked at a resteraunt that sold alchohol I had to get one and was fingerprinted, and all that good stuff. It seems I remember reading on here that he possibly worked at an upscale resteraunt, one would think it sold alcohol and he would need a liscence to sell or even work there. I would assume he would have been fingerprinted, at some point. Just a thought, just trying to put a reasoning behind why noone seems to not know him

believe09
10-15-2009, 10:10 AM
I am not sure if this even matters, but as far as Mr. Kyle and the fact that he possibly has worked in or is familiar with the resteraunt industry makes me wonder about a liquor liscence. I know when I worked at a resteraunt that sold alchohol I had to get one and was fingerprinted, and all that good stuff. It seems I remember reading on here that he possibly worked at an upscale resteraunt, one would think it sold alcohol and he would need a liscence to sell or even work there. I would assume he would have been fingerprinted, at some point. Just a thought, just trying to put a reasoning behind why noone seems to not know him

Nice Point!!! Thank you-I wonder if there are digital databases for this...

dreamweaver
10-15-2009, 10:21 AM
I am not sure if this even matters, but as far as Mr. Kyle and the fact that he possibly has worked in or is familiar with the resteraunt industry makes me wonder about a liquor liscence. I know when I worked at a resteraunt that sold alchohol I had to get one and was fingerprinted, and all that good stuff. It seems I remember reading on here that he possibly worked at an upscale resteraunt, one would think it sold alcohol and he would need a liscence to sell or even work there. I would assume he would have been fingerprinted, at some point. Just a thought, just trying to put a reasoning behind why noone seems to not know him
=========================================

Welcome to WS, bosslady.

Good idea. In all my trying to think of ideas, I had not thought
of this.

bosslady31
10-15-2009, 11:18 AM
=========================================

Welcome to WS, bosslady.

Good idea. In all my trying to think of ideas, I had not thought
of this.

Thanks for the welcome, I lurk here alot but don't post that often, I am just so wrapped up in this case. I find it amazing no one has come forward with any information regarding Mr. Kyle and his identity. SOMEONE out there knows who he is, he did not just drop from the heavens, and we all know the answer is out there, but we just don't know where to look. I would love to know if there have been any tips, are people calling LE with a possible identity and we just don't know of it, or has there been no leads at all. I sit here everyday pondering how or why someone would just appear and there be no record of him at all. My mind goes to everything from no family ( but he has had friends in his lifetime, school mates) to someone who the police has put in hiding to government agencies completly wiping him off the earth (a cover up so to speak.) Everyday we here of some of the most strange cases and every day something happens to someone that we can't believe so the possiblities are endless, but if everyone works together something will happen and we will find out the truth.

believe09
10-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the welcome, I lurk here alot but don't post that often, I am just so wrapped up in this case. I find it amazing no one has come forward with any information regarding Mr. Kyle and his identity. SOMEONE out there knows who he is, he did not just drop from the heavens, and we all know the answer is out there, but we just don't know where to look. I would love to know if there have been any tips, are people calling LE with a possible identity and we just don't know of it, or has there been no leads at all. I sit here everyday pondering how or why someone would just appear and there be no record of him at all. My mind goes to everything from no family ( but he has had friends in his lifetime, school mates) to someone who the police has put in hiding to government agencies completly wiping him off the earth (a cover up so to speak.) Everyday we here of some of the most strange cases and every day something happens to someone that we can't believe so the possiblities are endless, but if everyone works together something will happen and we will find out the truth.

There are lots of leads called in, bosslady-we do not hear of them because they do not pan out. For example, my name and contact info went out on a flyer that was distributed to law enforcement resources, soup kitchens, police departments etc about 6-8 weeks ago. I received scores of tips and leads...it was Mr. Kyle's choice to take the leads that made it through the first round of vetting and run them down with his team, so I have not posted them all here. Just to give you an idea however, my cell phone bill was over $700.00 because I did not know I was on the flyer and ran over my minutes!!!!!! :innocent:

bosslady31
10-15-2009, 11:44 AM
There are lots of leads called in, bosslady-we do not hear of them because they do not pan out. For example, my name and contact info went out on a flyer that was distributed to law enforcement resources, soup kitchens, police departments etc about 6-8 weeks ago. I received scores of tips and leads...it was Mr. Kyle's choice to take the leads that made it through the first round of vetting and run them down with his team, so I have not posted them all here. Just to give you an idea however, my cell phone bill was over $700.00 because I did not know I was on the flyer and ran over my minutes!!!!!! :innocent:
WoW! $700.00 I would of had a straight heart attack! I have another question maybe I have missed it somewhere, is there any reward being offered for any information leading to the identity of Mr. Kyle, it amazes me how some people will hold important clues close to the chest but as soon as you say reward, people that really do know stuff start talking. Someone who knows what happened to him the night he was attacked may come forward or someone who might have heard of the beating by say a friend might come forward. Just curious.

believe09
10-15-2009, 01:12 PM
WoW! $700.00 I would of had a straight heart attack! I have another question maybe I have missed it somewhere, is there any reward being offered for any information leading to the identity of Mr. Kyle, it amazes me how some people will hold important clues close to the chest but as soon as you say reward, people that really do know stuff start talking. Someone who knows what happened to him the night he was attacked may come forward or someone who might have heard of the beating by say a friend might come forward. Just curious.

I have been working with Crimestoppers to see if it makes sense to do that-it has been interesting to learn the number of crackpots that come out of the woodwork with FALSE information when there is a reward involved! Who would have thought, right?

believe09
10-15-2009, 01:13 PM
and PS I did have a "straight-heart attack"....my cell phone carrier and I are still trying to work it out, lol!!!

bosslady31
10-15-2009, 02:40 PM
I have been looking at a website for hours looking at pictures of missing persons cold cases (North American missing persons Network) and not that I think this is Mr Kyle, but I did find it strange that there is a man that has been missing since 2002 that is possibly dilirious, sunburnt, and may be nude. While I am searching through these I never thought I would find someone that might have gone missing that is actually nude. However I do not think it is him I just thought it was odd. His name is carl sanders from Nevada. Just goes to show you may never know what you will run across.

dreamweaver
10-15-2009, 03:11 PM
I have been looking at a website for hours looking at pictures of missing persons cold cases (North American missing persons Network) and not that I think this is Mr Kyle, but I did find it strange that there is a man that has been missing since 2002 that is possibly dilirious, sunburnt, and may be nude. While I am searching through these I never thought I would find someone that might have gone missing that is actually nude. However I do not think it is him I just thought it was odd. His name is carl sanders from Nevada. Just goes to show you may never know what you will run across.
--------------------------------------------

Note:
Please provide link for a person or an article. Thanks.

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200300502S
Carl Steven Sanders, missing since 7/07/2002, from Big Smoky Valley, NV.
He and wife ran out of gas and attempted to hike to nearest main road.
She was found in critical condition. Only Carl S's clothing was found.

...interesting that link says it is common for people suffering sunstroke to disrobe.........

WholeLottaRosie
10-15-2009, 03:16 PM
I have a question, maybe I am just missing this. When there is a potential match, it is submitted to BK? And his team? Who is his team? I am going to go back and read this whole board, but, that would help, to know those things. So if what I am gathering is correct, BK is looking at the possibles and saying yeah or no, before it goes any further?

bosslady31
10-15-2009, 03:21 PM
--------------------------------------------

Note:
Please provide link for a person or an article. Thanks.

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200300502S
Carl Steven Sanders, missing since 7/07/2002, from Big Smoky Valley, NV.
He and wife ran out of gas and attempted to hike to nearest main road.
She was found in critical condition. Only Carl S's clothing was found.

...interesting that link says it is common for people suffering sunstroke to disrobe.........

Sorry I need to learn how to provide links not real sure how to do that yet.

bosslady31
10-15-2009, 03:33 PM
http://www.nampn.org/cases/sanders_carl.html let me know if I didnt post this link right. Thanks

believe09
10-15-2009, 04:26 PM
I have a question, maybe I am just missing this. When there is a potential match, it is submitted to BK? And his team? Who is his team? I am going to go back and read this whole board, but, that would help, to know those things. So if what I am gathering is correct, BK is looking at the possibles and saying yeah or no, before it goes any further?

Tips should be submitted to the law enforcement contact of the missing person or to FBI Bill typically. If you read most of the current media on Benjaman, he has a forensic geneaologist who is listed as the contact for tips, as well as the Savannah GA FBI. The reason that there is a civilian contact in the articles is because some people do not want to deal directly with law enforcement when calling in tips, so it is nice to give them an alternative.

I have direct contact with Benjaman and Nurse Betty-(we use a pseudonym for his former nurse because she asked us to.) I believe Carolwood also has direct contact with Benjaman. Tips can be submitted through either one of us.

I cannot speak for Carolwood, but the tips I receive are vetted and sent to certain people depending on a certain set of criteria established for me by FBI Bill. For example, someone called me today with a tip that included information which was at a source I could not obtain data from. I sent that tip directly to FBI Bill and BK so they can use LE resources to obtain the information I could not get. Usually, I encounter sources that will give me some basic information and then I can see if I should forward the info on-if I find out that a possible match had a huge tattoo on his chest and three legs I would NOT send that forward.

Does this help?

I do not know everyone BK works with-that is the joy of having a real live UID on the boards...they are contacted by many different resources with offers of help-we at WS chug along with the basic goal of uncovering his ID if we can.

believe09
10-15-2009, 05:09 PM
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Chondrolaryngoplasty

There is actually a surgery that can be done to shave down the adams apple. I wonder where the scar would appear?

Julessleuther
10-15-2009, 05:14 PM
I was thinking about BK's scars, and with one of his scars he feels that he got the injury in his 20's and that he thought he was in Indiana. So...if he was already in his 20's, perhaps he attended undergraduate school in Indiana and then graduate school at U. of Colorado Boulder. Maybe we research Indiana colleges, or has this already been done? If he was Catholic, maybe he attended Notre Dame?

dreamweaver
10-15-2009, 07:36 PM
I have a question, maybe I am just missing this. When there is a potential match, it is submitted to BK? And his team? Who is his team? I am going to go back and read this whole board, but, that would help, to know those things. So if what I am gathering is correct, BK is looking at the possibles and saying yeah or no, before it goes any further?
===========================================
Gee, I did not know we were to submit all possible matches to BK before submitting to law enforcment.

I thought we discussed it on this board and if agreed that it could be a likely match, one of us, submitted it to the local LE agency.

Was there a rule passed and I did not notice it?

Wendy101
10-16-2009, 01:00 AM
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Chondrolaryngoplasty

There is actually a surgery that can be done to shave down the adams apple. I wonder where the scar would appear?


A horizontal incision is made on the bottom of the Adam's apple - so I guess that would depend where someones adams apple is located -

believe09
10-16-2009, 08:49 AM
===========================================
Gee, I did not know we were to submit all possible matches to BK before submitting to law enforcment.

I thought we discussed it on this board and if agreed that it could be a likely match, one of us, submitted it to the local LE agency.

Was there a rule passed and I did not notice it?

Nah dream-

Tips and possible matches are TWO DIFFERENT things, imo. Possible matches should follow the rules that Christine2448 put up on the sticky in the forum. Tips are far less structured.

Here is another example-I received a call from a former NHP (Nevada Highway Patrol Officer) last month claiming that he recognized Benjaman from a protective custody he did in 2001. I sent the guy links to audio and visual of BK; he was still positive. I called the jail where the suspect would have been PC'd-they take prints on the subject but the do not maintain them in a database-they leave them on a fingerprint card and file it with the incident report. The Booking sargeant was kind enough to pull EVERY file for a three year period and go through them by hand to see if he could find the incident the NHP officer remembered. Believe it or not, he found it-it took him 4 days. BK was RULED OUT as a match, but the subject could have been his twin. In any case, this is an example of how I receive a tip and vet it as much as I can before I pass it along. I do not post it on the board because it has been ruled out-I keep notes however.

carolwood
10-16-2009, 09:09 AM
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Chondrolaryngoplasty

There is actually a surgery that can be done to shave down the adams apple. I wonder where the scar would appear?

According to this article:

snip:

"a small, horizontal incision is made on the bottom of the Adam's apple.

Little scarring occurs in most cases because the surgeon will usually make the incision in one of the minuscule folds of skin that cover the Adam's apple."

WholeLottaRosie
10-17-2009, 02:52 AM
Tips should be submitted to the law enforcement contact of the missing person or to FBI Bill typically. If you read most of the current media on Benjaman, he has a forensic geneaologist who is listed as the contact for tips, as well as the Savannah GA FBI. The reason that there is a civilian contact in the articles is because some people do not want to deal directly with law enforcement when calling in tips, so it is nice to give them an alternative.

I have direct contact with Benjaman and Nurse Betty-(we use a pseudonym for his former nurse because she asked us to.) I believe Carolwood also has direct contact with Benjaman. Tips can be submitted through either one of us.

I cannot speak for Carolwood, but the tips I receive are vetted and sent to certain people depending on a certain set of criteria established for me by FBI Bill. For example, someone called me today with a tip that included information which was at a source I could not obtain data from. I sent that tip directly to FBI Bill and BK so they can use LE resources to obtain the information I could not get. Usually, I encounter sources that will give me some basic information and then I can see if I should forward the info on-if I find out that a possible match had a huge tattoo on his chest and three legs I would NOT send that forward.

Does this help?

I do not know everyone BK works with-that is the joy of having a real live UID on the boards...they are contacted by many different resources with offers of help-we at WS chug along with the basic goal of uncovering his ID if we can.


Thanks. This does help. I must have misread something.

believe09
10-18-2009, 06:48 PM
Hey Guys-

I contacted Memorial's CEO today to find out if the fee as reported was still accurate. This is a copy/paste from his response:

"Mr. Kyle and his then identified care giver/guardian were given, in August 2008, 116 pages of pertinent medical records. The material was provided AT NO CHARGE. I do not appreciate the negative characterization of being uncooperative."

I want you guys to know that I did not imply Memorial was being uncooperative-I simply asked if the fee was accurate. So FWIW, Memorial feels STRONGLY that they have given Benjaman all of the relevant data in regards to his stay at Memorial.

Umm. Wow.

Cubby
10-31-2009, 12:34 PM
I asked how could he be sure if
he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found
clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no
longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as
evidence and it is too late now.



respectfully snipped for space. My apologies if this has been discussed already.

Has anyone contacted this "friend" who indicated Mr. Kyle was a vagabond despite him no longer being on the PD? He may be willing to provide further information and cooperate with a contact despite his no longer being on the PD, or working for this particular local PD. Simply because he is no longer with the pd, I would not simply dismiss the possibility of speaking with him. Did anyone have a name for him? Sleuth him? Try to make contact?

I'm assuming based on NB's statement, the clothing was not retained as evidence, despite claims of clothing being seen in the dumpster? Has this been verified? (That the clothing was not retained and actually seen?)

Kentjbkent
11-01-2009, 09:16 PM
Mr. Kyle has well documented scars. We do not know what all of the scars are from however, so let's relist them here without the speculation as to what caused them unless it has been confirmed.


Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.) XRAYS documented a 5 inch pin.
Surgical scar on front of neck.
Small round scar on left side of face near chin.



I am now wondering if all the documented scars and injuries of BK could possibly be related to one specific incident?

From various threads, I have learned that he has:

1. A surgical scar on left elbow (with pins implanted)

2. A scar on forearm that he believes was from a skin grafting surgery

3. Surgical scar on front of neck

4. Head contusions (indentions) that were not recorded as having occurred
as a result of an assault in RH in 2004.

He also has:

1. A facial scar that may be related to an absessed tooth

2. 4 missing teeth

I am wondering if it is possible that the first four scars/injuries could have been from injuries that happened during a single traumatic incident such as vehicle accident, pedestrian/vehicle accident, assault?

If these were four separate surgeries/injuries during separate timeframes in his life, one would assume that he was employed and was covered by health insurance as these hospitalizations and surgeries would be costly, with or without insurance. (We already know that he was not covered as military veteran)

However, one could assume that BK's dental needs were not be attended to if the scar on the left cheek area was indeed from a neglected abcessed tooth (to cause such severe damage as to cause scarring on the outer flesh) and missing teeth.

One could also assume that BK was not receiving care from an eye specialist due to the severe (legally blind) state of his cataracts when found.

Is it a possibility that some time prior to August 31, 2004 (somewhere), BK was involved in a very serious accident or assault and was transported to an emergency room where he received treatment (and possibly hospitalization) for a broken elbow and at least one other injury on his forearm that resulted in scarring? Could the scar on his neck be the result of a tracheotomy to open his airway? Could these "indentations" shown on the CAT scan be a result of a head injury during this same incident?

What if he was a pedestrian that was hit by a car or something of that nature? Could he have been the victim of a previous brutal assault? Could he have been in a vehicle accident as either driver or passenger?

It is just striking me as odd that he has appeared to have received extensive medical care in some areas, whereas other areas are completely lacking?

Kentjbkent
11-01-2009, 10:00 PM
[QUOTE=believe09;4266758]6.

CLIPPED FOR BREVITY

What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police
dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a
copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant
bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17,
right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA.
The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to
the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated
8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of
this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail
it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made
it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without
the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He
said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in
Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe"
because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was
actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now. He
said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if
he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found
clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no
longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as
evidence and it is too late now.

Do you know who specifically had the conversation with Mike Albritton that resulted in the statements made above? Did NB speak directly to Mike Albritton, or did she speak with someone else who stated they spoke to him (making her information 3rd hand)?

I know for a fact that at least one of the officers who responded to the Burger King is and has been employed by RHPD since that night and that is the officer who wrote the "misc" report, so curious as to where info came that no one who was there that night works for RHPD now?

believe09
11-02-2009, 09:54 AM
[quote=believe09;4266758]6.

CLIPPED FOR BREVITY

What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police
dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a
copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant
bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17,
right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA.
The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to
the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated
8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of
this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail
it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made
it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without
the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He
said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in
Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe"
because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was
actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now. He
said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if
he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found
clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no
longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as
evidence and it is too late now.

Do you know who specifically had the conversation with Mike Albritton that resulted in the statements made above? Did NB speak directly to Mike Albritton, or did she speak with someone else who stated they spoke to him (making her information 3rd hand)?

I know for a fact that at least one of the officers who responded to the Burger King is and has been employed by RHPD since that night and that is the officer who wrote the "misc" report, so curious as to where info came that no one who was there that night works for RHPD now?

If this is a question for me, friend, the copy paste above was from an email from NB. She forwarded the email to me-it was not originally for me. So the EMS reports were never sent to me by NB. These are not my statements.

I have the police file because of FOIA. RHPD believes that they found a transient next to the dumpster. That is the position they took in 2004 and that they are taking today.

Other than the above email, I have never heard or seen evidence that BK's clothing was in the dumpster.

believe09
11-02-2009, 10:01 AM
I think there is a case for BK's scars having occurred with some kind of catastrophic event. I do not have any independent proof that the scar on his neck is from a discetomy. That does not mean it is NOT-it simply means I have seen nothing indicating it definitively is. I would think that the hardware could be documented via XRAY or CT scan. Rose and I have been talking off line about his neck scar and whether it could have resulted from some kind of thyroid surgery. It was likely not as a result of a tracheostomy because that scar would appear lower on his neck....I suspected a tracheostomy and a catastrophic event initially as well.

I have not seen the XRAY of BK's elbow, but was read the results. It was a big boo boo-a big break. I can see why it might have required skin grafts but do not know if that is why he had scarring on his arm and if it is associated with the elbow break.

Look at his shoulders in the new pictures. One appears to slope significantly.

I do not know that there is documentation of depressions in Benjaman's skull-I have seen NB describe them as such.

Kentjbkent
11-02-2009, 10:09 AM
[quote=Kentjbkent;4373564]

If this is a question for me, friend, the copy paste above was from an email from NB. She forwarded the email to me-it was not originally for me. So the EMS reports were never sent to me by NB. These are not my statements.

I have the police file because of FOIA. RHPD believes that they found a transient next to the dumpster. That is the position they took in 2004 and that they are taking today.

Other than the above email, I have never heard or seen evidence that BK's clothing was in the dumpster.

So if I am understanding correctly, the original email was between NB and some member of LE in 2007, but email exchange was NOT between NB and M. Albritton, correct?

Trying to tie down whether comments purportedly made by M. Albritton were made directly to NB, or were being relayed by "member of LE" (to NB) summarizing a conversation that member of LE had with M. Albritton prior to email exchange with NB?

Kentjbkent
11-02-2009, 10:14 AM
I think there is a case for BK's scars having occurred with some kind of catastrophic event. I do not have any independent proof that the scar on his neck is from a discetomy. That does not mean it is NOT-it simply means I have seen nothing indicating it definitively is. I would think that the hardware could be documented via XRAY or CT scan. Rose and I have been talking off line about his neck scar and whether it could have resulted from some kind of thyroid surgery. It was likely not as a result of a tracheostomy because that scar would appear lower on his neck....I suspected a tracheostomy and a catastrophic event initially as well.

I have not seen the XRAY of BK's elbow, but was read the results. It was a big boo boo-a big break. I can see why it might have required skin grafts but do not know if that is why he had scarring on his arm and if it is associated with the elbow break.

Look at his shoulders in the new pictures. One appears to slope significantly.

I do not know that there is documentation of depressions in Benjaman's skull-I have seen NB describe them as such.

I actually have Graves (thyroid disease) but did NOT have surgery on my thyroid. Instead, I took RAI (radiation) treatment. A very good friend here, however, was diagnosed at the same time with thyroid cancer and she DID have surgery to remove her thyroid. Her scar is straight across but much longer than BK's, but his could have been to remove a goiter?

In both of our cases (mine and friends), it resulted in both of us having to be on Synthroid for life. Do you know if BK regularly takes any type of thyroid medications to control an inactive/overactive thyroid condition that may have included thyroid surgery?

While on the subject of medical care, I know we are not privy to hospital records, but are we aware of any injuries that were documented as a result of the supposive "beating" committed to BK in August of 2004? I don't think I have read anything about any bruising, bleeding, lacerations, etc? (One of the questions I want to ask RHPD)

believe09
11-02-2009, 10:31 AM
To my knowlege, BK does not take thyroid replacement medication. Now, I have a brother with Hashimoto's. He does not take thyroid replacement yet. I know that each person is different and the level of replacement depends on the body. It is possible to have tissue removed and not have to take something like Synthroid yet. BUT, hypothyroid can cause excessive sweating, weight gain, confusion, dizzieness...so I have been wondering what BK's thyroid panel looked like from the hospital records.

I have seen nothing that independently documents a beating-no sign of scratches, bruises, blood, broken bones etc. Clearly, RHPD saw no sign of a crime. Or they would have pursued it because that is what the police do.

believe09
11-02-2009, 10:33 AM
[quote=believe09;4375054]

So if I am understanding correctly, the original email was between NB and some member of LE in 2007, but email exchange was NOT between NB and M. Albritton, correct?

Trying to tie down whether comments purportedly made by M. Albritton were made directly to NB, or were being relayed by "member of LE" (to NB) summarizing a conversation that member of LE had with M. Albritton prior to email exchange with NB?

This email was not between M. Albritton and NB, correct.

Wendy101
11-02-2009, 11:22 AM
I have seen nothing that independently documents a beating-no sign of scratches, bruises, blood, broken bones etc. Clearly, RHPD saw no sign of a crime. Or they would have pursued it because that is what the police do.

I thought he was found badly beaten?

believe09
11-02-2009, 11:48 AM
I thought he was found badly beaten?

this is where things are tricky, Zaha. It is almost like a game of telephone that I can see in the media....I am busily trying to trace the origin of the statements.

For Example: We have a copy paste of some CT scan results done by the ER doc with NB notes included in them. From what I can see, the notations made by NB were included as fact rather than being separated out. The doctor notes that there are 3 small lacunes noted in the CT result. NB notes that lacunes are depressions in the skull-in fact, lacunes are defined as follows-
"arteries penetrating deep into the brain become blocked by atherosclerosis, causing areas of surrounding tissue to lose their blood supply. The tissue may then wither, creating minute holes, called lacunes. A succession of transient ischemic attacks over the years can riddle the brain, causing dementia."

This is from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Lacunes can be part of a stroke diagnoses. Basically they were noted by the ER Doc as three small white areas in BK's brain on the right side. They could be a sign of an aging brain, they could be a sign of a previous stroke but they are not definitive examples of a previous skull fracture or depression.

Somehow, this has evolved to BK having signs of a head injury when he was found.

Am I making any sense?

dreamweaver
11-02-2009, 01:30 PM
believe09:
Yes, you are making sense.
And I am glad you are.
I have thought all this time, BK
had three seperate depressions
on the outside of his head.
NOT.

NB is a psychiatric nurse, do you think she
just used her nurse lingo to describe the injuries inside
the brain?

Roselvr
11-02-2009, 03:58 PM
I think there is a case for BK's scars having occurred with some kind of catastrophic event. I do not have any independent proof that the scar on his neck is from a discetomy. That does not mean it is NOT-it simply means I have seen nothing indicating it definitively is. I would think that the hardware could be documented via XRAY or CT scan. Rose and I have been talking off line about his neck scar and whether it could have resulted from some kind of thyroid surgery. It was likely not as a result of a tracheostomy because that scar would appear lower on his neck....I suspected a tracheostomy and a catastrophic event initially as well.

I have not seen the XRAY of BK's elbow, but was read the results. It was a big boo boo-a big break. I can see why it might have required skin grafts but do not know if that is why he had scarring on his arm and if it is associated with the elbow break.

Look at his shoulders in the new pictures. One appears to slope significantly.

I do not know that there is documentation of depressions in Benjaman's skull-I have seen NB describe them as such.

From what I've researched on back surgery; the scar is not in the right place.
Now, having said that, are we all talking about the same scar? From what I've read & reread, it almost sounds like there is another that would be covered by his shirt.

As far as the spine/neck/thyroid; easiest way is to have an Xray taken to confirm surgery. Then a blood test to see what his levels are to rule out thyroid. If he needs to be on medication; this would be beneficial to him.

His other injuries; IMO they could have happened at any time of his 50 to 60 years of life. Is it possible he was burned and had a skin graft for that? his elbow could be repetitive motion I guess. Do we know if he actually has pins? I had shoulder & ankle surgery in the 1980's; by then it was arthroscopic. Now; having said that, there are some surgeries where they still leave a huge scar. I have piriformis syndrome; the piriformus is in the butt. The surgery to fix it; last time I had a consult was an 18 inch scar on both sides. I haven't done it cause it's radical to me. Doing a google, they're switching to arthroscopic.

Anyway, it's possible he had some kind of muscle/bone repair.

My thoughts are; what ever happened, I'm not so sure the type of surgery matters except to try to figure out his history. A lot of people have researched missing person's, so far no one with his medical history matches - except the guy that fell off the dock. It's possible a missing person's page will get updated with scars & surgeries but from what I've seen; I highly doubt it.

Who he was doesn't really matter to me; to me he is a kind & funny man that needs to have a current life. I would like to see this mystery solved so that he can move on.


.

believe09
11-02-2009, 04:16 PM
He does have a big a** pin in his arm. (Sorry for the implied language.) A 5" pin. That is a big repair so that injury must have hurt. IIRC, big pins are done for joint stability, the down side is that they can affect range of motion. It might impact his ability to throw a baseball or football...

I do think we need to document as much as we can and verify it because it is helpful to his history.

I also believe that BK is a nice, kind, funny man who needs to have a current life of choices available to him. :)

believe09
11-02-2009, 04:24 PM
believe09:
Yes, you are making sense.
And I am glad you are.
I have thought all this time, BK
had three seperate depressions
on the outside of his head.
NOT.

NB is a psychiatric nurse, do you think she
just used her nurse lingo to describe the injuries inside
the brain?


I think it is tough to make this call in a vacuum-I mean, maybe BK has a nobby head and she can feel areas on his head that seemed to correspond with the scan reading?

I think the key to this finding is whether or not there were bumps, depressions, contusions, cuts etc...that corresponded with this. The Doc makes no note of this in the copy paste from NB email. There is no finding I can see indicating that there was a fracture.

So, what did LE and the EMS see when BK was found and examined? Does it line up with what was found/not found via examination at the first hospital he was transferred to?

I keep going backwards to the possibility that they missed a possible stroke, given the lacunes that were found. Hard to believe an ER doc would miss this. So I would love to know what they believed caused the state he was in when he was found?

LE does not believe he was assaulted. So how did he end up lying near the dumpster? Is it even important to his story? I mean, we have a man who is still a living UID...

Roselvr
11-02-2009, 05:24 PM
He does have a big a** pin in his arm. (Sorry for the implied language.) A 5" pin. That is a big repair so that injury must have hurt. IIRC, big pins are done for joint stability, the down side is that they can affect range of motion. It might impact his ability to throw a baseball or football...

I do think we need to document as much as we can and verify it because it is helpful to his history.

I also believe that BK is a nice, kind, funny man who needs to have a current life of choices available to him. :)

Ok, so we know there was definite surgery with big 5 inch pins.
Do you know the exact location of these pins? I have something in mind, want to be sure.

Quick google search

Chronic elbow dislocation: a rare complication of tennis elbow surgery.

Ulnar Nerve Transposition Surgery (http://moxiefoxtrot.com/2008/03/23/ulnar-nerve-transposition-surgery/) Photo of location from same person (http://moxiefoxtrot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/photo-1.jpg)


Google images (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&um=1&sa=1&q=Ulnar+Nerve+Transposition+Surgery&btnG=Search+images&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0) - Ulnar Nerve Transposition Surgery


I keep going backwards to the possibility that they missed a possible stroke, given the lacunes that were found. Hard to believe an ER doc would miss this. So I would love to know what they believed caused the state he was in when he was found?

LE does not believe he was assaulted. So how did he end up lying near the dumpster? Is it even important to his story? I mean, we have a man who is still a living UID...

I agree that something such as a stroke is something they shouldn't have missed; but being that they thought he lived on the street they may not have "cared", and I say cared for lack of a better word. Obviously with no ID; no insurance they wanted to get rid of him as quick as possible.

believe09
11-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Ok, so we know there was definite surgery with big 5 inch pins.
Do you know the exact location of these pins? I have something in mind, want to be sure.

Quick google search


Ulnar Nerve Transposition Surgery (http://moxiefoxtrot.com/2008/03/23/ulnar-nerve-transposition-surgery/) Photo of location from same person (http://moxiefoxtrot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/photo-1.jpg)


Google images (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&um=1&sa=1&q=Ulnar+Nerve+Transposition+Surgery&btnG=Search+images&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0) - Ulnar Nerve Transposition Surgery



I agree that something such as a stroke is something they shouldn't have missed; but being that they thought he lived on the street they may not have "cared", and I say cared for lack of a better word. Obviously with no ID; no insurance they wanted to get rid of him as quick as possible.

I don't remember the exact location of the pin-I will check my notes.

I am going to say that "BK" was at that hospital for 2 weeks before he was transferred to Memorial. I doubt they were kicking him to the curb because of the lack of insurance!

Roselvr
11-02-2009, 06:32 PM
I am going to say that "BK" was at that hospital for 2 weeks before he was transferred to Memorial. I doubt they were kicking him to the curb because of the lack of insurance!

I'm not conveying what I'm trying to say..

They knew he didn't have insurance and possibly, they did not want to take on something such as a stroke with no insurance because that would mean expensive tests, no? Bad enough having to eat a hospital stay..

believe09
11-02-2009, 07:30 PM
I'm not conveying what I'm trying to say..

They knew he didn't have insurance and possibly, they did not want to take on something such as a stroke with no insurance because that would mean expensive tests, no? Bad enough having to eat a hospital stay..

You could be right. I would like to know what kept him there the two weeks-they must have been ruling out something or there must have been a belief regarding something for them not to have kicked him to Memorial sooner. JMO.

believe09
11-02-2009, 07:37 PM
Just so you guys can get a sense-I have worked on the administrative side of health care. Every hospital, unless it is private, has free care dollars that they have to spend or lose. This was the principal that got us free xrays for BK's elbow from Memorial in March. They wrote it off. So-the first hospital where BK was treated likely wrote off his care or hoped he would have medical insurance. Regardless, federal law guarantees the best care be given to those regardless of ability to pay.

Roselvr
11-02-2009, 07:46 PM
You could be right. I would like to know what kept him there the two weeks-they must have been ruling out something or there must have been a belief regarding something for them not to have kicked him to Memorial sooner. JMO.

Ok, so that's a good place to start with questions.


Just so you guys can get a sense-I have worked on the administrative side of health care. Every hospital, unless it is private, has free care dollars that they have to spend or lose. This was the principal that got us free xrays for BK's elbow from Memorial in March. They wrote it off. So-the first hospital where BK was treated likely wrote off his care or hoped he would have medical insurance. Regardless, federal law guarantees the best care be given to those regardless of ability to pay.

But, and this is a big but; which you may know better then I do..
When you got the Xrays in March, it was pretty much the start of their calendar year, correct?

This happened in August; we don't know how much of those "free health care dollars" they had used at this point.

Aren't hospitals allowed to deny service for lack of not being able to pay - or should I say, were they allowed to back then?

I see it on the TV; and while I realize what we see on TV is not necessarily true; I feel it's possible that they did not give him their all due to the information they had that day.

We know Benjaman was healthy except for what landed him there. The tests run did not show he was thought to be homeless.

Roselvr
11-02-2009, 09:01 PM
Reading back over this post.. there's so many posts, lol

You said this:


OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???

So what if they missed the fact that he had a stroke?

carolwood
11-02-2009, 10:26 PM
You could be right. I would like to know what kept him there the two weeks-they must have been ruling out something or there must have been a belief regarding something for them not to have kicked him to Memorial sooner. JMO.Isn't a unconscious state considered life or death situation?

carolwood
11-02-2009, 10:36 PM
Ok, so that's a good place to start with questions.



But, and this is a big but; which you may know better then I do..
When you got the Xrays in March, it was pretty much the start of their calendar year, correct?

This happened in August; we don't know how much of those "free health care dollars" they had used at this point.

Aren't hospitals allowed to deny service for lack of not being able to pay - or should I say, were they allowed to back then?

I see it on the TV; and while I realize what we see on TV is not necessarily true; I feel it's possible that they did not give him their all due to the information they had that day.

We know Benjaman was healthy except for what landed him there. The tests run did not show he was thought to be homeless.In Louisiana, in a life or death situation, they bring you to the nearest hospital. You will stay there until you are able to be moved (without insurance).
If a patient was to die while being moved, because the hospital felt the patient could be moved, and the patient was to die, would not be a nice situation for the hospital.

believe09
11-03-2009, 11:16 AM
Ok, so that's a good place to start with questions.



But, and this is a big but; which you may know better then I do..
When you got the Xrays in March, it was pretty much the start of their calendar year, correct?

This happened in August; we don't know how much of those "free health care dollars" they had used at this point.

Aren't hospitals allowed to deny service for lack of not being able to pay - or should I say, were they allowed to back then?

I see it on the TV; and while I realize what we see on TV is not necessarily true; I feel it's possible that they did not give him their all due to the information they had that day.

We know Benjaman was healthy except for what landed him there. The tests run did not show he was thought to be homeless.

My bold. I do not know this to be true-have you seen anything that indicates this?? :waitasec:

believe09
11-03-2009, 11:20 AM
1.) Incident report: Location: Burger King Case Number: 04080687 Nature of Comp: 10-37 Naked Vagrant day of the week: Tues Date: 8/31 Time: 0636 Complainant: Tom Auer Disp: 0637 how received: phone ARR: 0640 complainant phone number: 756-3181 ems: 3 &4 resp Status: misc incident operator: 217 officer:813 back up units: 814/09 comp 0658

2.) Misc Incident Rept: Nature of complaint: naked man sleeping near dumpster case number: 04080687 patrol area: south incident location: Burger King location code: 533 zone: 5 date of incident: 8-31-04 time:0640 Complainant: Tom Auer Address: same phone number :756-3181 Narrative: R/D and Cpl.Potts responded to this call and the male subject was sleeping near the dumpster. The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital. w/f Investigating Officers signature: (illegible) Number 813

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 11:41 AM
My bold. I do not know this to be true-have you seen anything that indicates this?? :waitasec:

Just what's been posted from the ER Doc notes- I'm trying to take NB's statements/opinions out.

Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man, although he had depressed neurological reflexes, and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar hemisphere.

The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits

We also know he was legally blind.

Wendy101
11-03-2009, 12:00 PM
Can lacunes on right cerebellar hemisphere indicate what type of/or cause amnesia?

believe09
11-03-2009, 12:22 PM
Just what's been posted from the ER Doc notes- I'm trying to take NB's statements/opinions out.

Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man, although he had depressed neurological reflexes, and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar hemisphere.

The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits

We also know he was legally blind.

my bold-this is not a note by the doc. The note regarding "depressions" is Nurse Betty's statement.

believe09
11-03-2009, 12:25 PM
Can lacunes on right cerebellar hemisphere indicate what type of/or cause amnesia?

I have never seem anything indicating lacunes are representative of amnesia-any neurologists want to weigh in??

annemc2
11-03-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm no neurologist, but I'm guessing mild vascular disease - does he have high b/p, high cholesterol, anything like that?

IMO, the lacunae are a meaningless (for our intents and purposes) and incidental finding - nothing to do with amnesia.

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 12:46 PM
RHPD Incident reports:
1.) Incident report: Location: Burger King Case Number: 04080687 Nature of Comp: 10-37 Naked Vagrant day of the week: Tues Date: 8/31 Time: 0636 Complainant: Tom Auer Disp: 0637 how received: phone ARR: 0640 complainant phone number: 756-3181 ems: 3 &4 resp Status: misc incident operator: 217 officer:813 back up units: 814/09 comp 0658

2.) Misc Incident Rept: Nature of complaint: naked man sleeping near dumpster case number: 04080687 patrol area: south incident location: Burger King location code: 533 zone: 5 date of incident: 8-31-04 time:0640 Complainant: Tom Auer Address: same phone number :756-3181 Narrative: R/D and Cpl.Potts responded to this call and the male subject was sleeping near the dumpster. The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital. w/f Investigating Officers signature: (illegible) Number 813



Hospital admissions


Richmond Hill, Ga - 8/31/04 - 2 week stay @ St. Joseph's Hospital
Transferred to Memorial Health University Medical Center, Savannah.
In November 2004, he was taken to the J.C. Lewis Health Center.


Head finding-
A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes in the right cerebellar hemisphere.
*note from Believe - Someone mentioned to me offline that I was not being specific enough regarding the CT SCan.

Lacunes are an INTERNAL finding. There was nothing on the outside of his head that reflected these small spots. There was no external trauma noted on BK's head ie:Lacerations, Bumps, bruises, a depression in the skull indicating fracture. It was a normal head CT, except lacunes were noted.

Height/Weight/Hair/Eyes
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) His blindness, which doctors diagnosed as bad cataracts, was repaired by donated surgery.

Scars

• Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.)
XRAY taken in 3/09. BK read me the results-5" pin.
• Surgical scar on front of neck.
• Small round scar on left side of face near chin.


Dental/Fingerprints
Mr. Kyle is missing teeth:
• Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side
• Dental XRAYS are in the NCIC database.

Mr. Kyle's fingerprints are in AFIS.
His prints have been digitally and manually compared to Military Records in the event that he was active in any of the services.

DNA

Mr. Kyle's Primary DNA is in CODIS.
I have been told by NB that his MtDNA is located in a private database that they are choosing not to disclose.
His Paternal DNA has been processed by the Family Tree DNA database in Houston, TX.
Medical Records Question Answered by Memorial Hospital
I contacted Memorial's CEO today to find out if the fee as reported was still accurate. This is a copy/paste from his response:

"Mr. Kyle and his then identified care giver/guardian were given, in August 2008, 116 pages of pertinent medical records. The material was provided AT NO CHARGE. I do not appreciate the negative characterization of being uncooperative."

Memorial feels STRONGLY that they have given Benjaman all of the relevant data in regards to his stay at Memorial.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A statement from the EMT interviewed for the Dr Phil Show
Snip-"An ambulance was called to the scene. "He was totally naked. He was unresponsive. When I looked at him, he had a lot of sores on him," recalls paramedic Sue Usry."-snip

Transient -
I have the police file because of FOIA. RHPD believes that they found a transient next to the dumpster. That is the position they took in 2004 and that they are taking today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note* - The question is from the member of LE, Answer denotes NB response. *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

snip

LE question What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17, right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA. The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated 8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe" because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now.
He said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as evidence and it is too late now.

Mr. Kyle stayed in St. Joseph's Hospital for approximately two weeks.Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man [not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro (7th) floor. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the cataracts... This is also part of the LE email I (Believe) have in my files- it would be interesting to know what Mr. Kyle recalls about his vision.

Benjaman posted his vision was 20/275 prior to cataract surgery.

Please note* - *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

~snip~

"It is also interesting to note that his cataracts were not diagnosed until
approximately October of 2004. When he came out of his
unconscious/unresponsive state he would have been functionally blind. It is quite possible that he was struck on the head and became unconscious with his eyes open. The sun damage could easily have caused the cataracts.
He had other symptoms brought on from exposure to the elements including tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and elevated blood pressure. He also had apositive Babinski reflex according to the EMS report (an abnormal finding except during the first six months of life) - this would lead one to suspect neurological damage. That is probably why the EMS completely immobilized him before transporting him to the ER."
~snip~

Cubby
11-03-2009, 01:15 PM
I wasn't sure whether I should post this here, or in the general discussion thread. Is this now the 'new' general discussion thread?:waitasec: If so, can we have the older GD threads locked? (I want to make sure I am posting in the correct place and not having too much discussion in too many places here. :) )

If I may respectfully ask, and I mean no disrespect to any poster here or Mr. Kyle, are the medical discussions pertaining to trying to determine whether or not Mr. Kyle was a transient prior to being found? I'm somewhat confused as to whether or not a polite discussion/debate is occuring as to whether or not Mr. Kyle was a transient. If he was or not, he still obviously needs to be id'd. I'm trying to rack my brain on where this is going and how determining, if I am reading this correctly, whether or not he was a transient for a period of time prior to his being located would benefit the quest to identify him. Am I just brain dead today?

I really mean no disrespect, so I hope this did not offend anyone, I am just confused as to why it appears a higher priority, to determine whether or not he was a transient.

Thanks all!

bam
11-03-2009, 01:20 PM
I think it's important because there may be new places to search for identity @ soup kitchens, homeless shelters and the like. Does anyone else have an opinion such as this? I don't think anyone thinks less of Bk if he was a vagrant or not. He is still a human being.

Cubby
11-03-2009, 01:33 PM
I think it's important because there may be new places to search for identity @ soup kitchens, homeless shelters and the like. Does anyone else have an opinion such as this? I don't think anyone thinks less of Bk if he was a vagrant or not. He is still a human being.

I agree, but it is my understanding that was done early on in the investigation.

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 02:01 PM
I wasn't sure whether I should post this here, or in the general discussion thread. Is this now the 'new' general discussion thread?:waitasec: If so, can we have the older GD threads locked? (I want to make sure I am posting in the correct place and not having too much discussion in too many places here. :) )

If I may respectfully ask, and I mean no disrespect to any poster here or Mr. Kyle, are the medical discussions pertaining to trying to determine whether or not Mr. Kyle was a transient prior to being found? I'm somewhat confused as to whether or not a polite discussion/debate is occuring as to whether or not Mr. Kyle was a transient. If he was or not, he still obviously needs to be id'd. I'm trying to rack my brain on where this is going and how determining, if I am reading this correctly, whether or not he was a transient for a period of time prior to his being located would benefit the quest to identify him. Am I just brain dead today?

I really mean no disrespect, so I hope this did not offend anyone, I am just confused as to why it appears a higher priority, to determine whether or not he was a transient.

Thanks all!

I just copied over what I thought to be facts into Starting From Scratch-Medical Records Discussion

As far as the transient - look at Vetted Leads from AASU Flyer - Quoting Believe's 1st post


The Center for Justice Administration at Armstrong University constructed a flyer in late August of 2009, which was distributed via LE channels beginning in September. All of my personal info was on it for contact, so forgive me if I do not post a copy of the flyer here, lol-I could not figure out how to redact it. The preference of NB was that the leads requiring further investigation be forwarded to her and her "team." You will see in this thread that it was relatively easy to vet the majority of them. I wanted you guys to get a sense of what was called in and from where....

believe09
11-03-2009, 03:06 PM
AAHHHH-the confusion. The medical records discussion was regarding the topic about who had possession of the records and whether or not BK had read them. Memorial weighed in.

I will lock the other GD threads-this is a fresh start thread. I wanted to see if it was just me or did others believe we had to start all over again.

I don't care whether or not Benjaman is a transient-it is germaine to the discussion of his ID simply because if he accurately remembers past employment and history, we can safely dig about in those areas. If he wandered from place to place, we have perhaps a different approach to take.

His medical history is germaine for two reasons imo-1.) Can we use his scars and identifiers as ways to identify him and would it help to narrow down what those scars represent? And 2.) are the media reports regarding the events that brought him to our attention accurate?

believe09
11-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Scars
Mr. Kyle has well documented scars. We do not know what all of the scars are from however, so let's relist them here without the speculation as to what caused them unless it has been confirmed.
• Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.) XRAYS taken 3/09 documented a 5 inch pin. I have not seen the XRAY of BK's elbow, but was read the results.
• Surgical scar on front of neck.
• Small round scar on left side of face near chin.
• the elbow surgery has been independently verified with an XRAY. IIRC, the guess of cervical surgery has not.

Hospital admission - Richmond Hill, Ga - 8/31/04 - 2 week stay @ St. Joseph's Hospital, he was then transferred to Memorial Health University Medical Center. In November 2004, he was taken to the J.C. Lewis Health Center,

Head finding-
We have a copy paste of some CT scan results done by the ER doc with NB notes included in them -
The doctor notes that there are 3 small lacunes noted in the CT result. *Noted by the ER Doc as three small white areas in BK's brain on the right side.

NB notes that lacunes are depressions in the skull-

From Believe - in fact, lacunes are defined as follows from the Encyclopedia Britannica - "arteries penetrating deep into the brain become blocked by atherosclerosis, causing areas of surrounding tissue to lose their blood supply. The tissue may then wither, creating minute holes, called lacunes. A succession of transient ischemic attacks over the years can riddle the brain, causing dementia."

* They could be a sign of an aging brain, they could be a sign of a previous stroke but they are not definitive examples of a previous skull fracture or depression.
Believe's notes - I think the key to this finding is whether or not there were bumps, depressions, contusions, cuts etc...that corresponded with this. The Doc makes no note of this in the copy paste from NB email. There is no finding I can see indicating that there was a fracture.

Height/Weight/Hair/Eyes
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) His blindness, which doctors diagnosed as bad cataracts, was repaired by donated surgery.

There is anecdotal information indicating that cataract surgery may change the color of the iris, but I could not find any studies to verify this. In otherwords, I am not 100% that his eye color now is the same distinctive color it was prior to his surgery.

Dental/Fingerprints
Mr. Kyle is missing teeth:
• Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side of mouth. (I do not know which teeth specifically.)
• Dental XRAYS are in the NCIC database.
Mr. Kyle's fingerprints are in AFIS. His prints have been digitally and manually compared to Military Records in the event that he was active in any of the services.

DNA
Mr. Kyle's Primary DNA is in CODIS. I have been told by NB that his MtDNA is located in a private database that they are choosing not to disclose. His Paternal DNA has been processed by the Family Tree DNA database in Houston, TX.

Found by a Burger King dumpster 6am to 6:30am, Richmond Hills, GA.
on 8/31/2004. LE does not believe he was assaulted.

Medical Records Question Answered by Memorial Hospital
I contacted Memorial's CEO today to find out if the fee as reported was still accurate. This is a copy/paste from his response:

"Mr. Kyle and his then identified care giver/guardian were given, in August 2008, 116 pages of pertinent medical records. The material was provided AT NO CHARGE. I do not appreciate the negative characterization of being uncooperative."

I want you guys to know that I did not imply Memorial was being uncooperative-I simply asked if the fee was accurate. So FWIW, Memorial feels STRONGLY that they have given Benjaman all of the relevant data in regards to his stay at Memorial.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A statement from the EMT interviewed for the Dr Phil Show
Snip-"An ambulance was called to the scene. "He was totally naked. He was unresponsive. When I looked at him, he had a lot of sores on him," recalls paramedic Sue Usry."-snip

OK, so here is a partial statement from a first responder regarding the fact that he had sores, no clothing and was unresponsive. She does not say fire ant bites, sunburned, or indicates he had any injuries...so lets see what we can find that documents his injuries.

Transient -
I have the police file because of FOIA. RHPD believes that they found a transient next to the dumpster. That is the position they took in 2004 and that they are taking today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ER Docs notes by christine2448 -
Here is the info on when he was first discovered:
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man (not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.


OK gang-we are getting closer...the ER Doc Notes as posted by Christine and quoted by Rose are from an email that NB sent to a member of LE in 2007. I have the original email in my files and here is a copy paste regarding that particular report:



snip

6. What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17, right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA. The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated 8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe" because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now.
He said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as evidence and it is too late now.

Mr. Kyle stayed in St. Joseph's Hospital for approximately two weeks.
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed
and well-nourished middle-aged man [not a bum), although he had depressed
neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat.
His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his
condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He
was sent up to the Neuro (7th) floor. A CT scan of the head was normal
except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar
hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his
report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" -
probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they
reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very
poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had
practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He
presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or
over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???

So what if they missed the fact that he had a stroke?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the cataracts... This is also part of the LE email I have in my files-it would be interesting to know what Mr. Kyle recalls about his vision. The italics are again mine indicating NB's opinion I believe....
snip
"It is also interesting to note that his cataracts were not diagnosed until
approximately October of 2004. When he came out of his
unconscious/unresponsive state he would have been functionally blind. It is quite possible that he was struck on the head and became unconscious with his eyes open. The sun damage could easily have caused the cataracts.
He had other symptoms brought on from exposure to the elements including tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and elevated blood pressure. He also had apositive Babinski reflex according to the EMS report (an abnormal finding except during the first six months of life) - this would lead one to suspect neurological damage. That is probably why the EMS completely immobilized him before transporting him to the ER."
snip

I moved your post Rose...

Everything bolded here by me today at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 05:15 PM
If he was or not, he still obviously needs to be id'd. I'm trying to rack my brain on where this is going and how determining, if I am reading this correctly, whether or not he was a transient for a period of time prior to his being located would benefit the quest to identify him. Am I just brain dead today?

I really mean no disrespect, so I hope this did not offend anyone, I am just confused as to why it appears a higher priority, to determine whether or not he was a transient.

Cubby.. I'm glad I came back and reread your post - I agree; does it matter if he was homeless? To me it does not.

Benjaman has a good work ethic and if finding out who he is will allow him to get a job or to collect social security benefits (because of age) then what happened in the past will not affect my personal opinion of him.

I'm very fond of him; when I originally came here I was willing to do what needed to be done to help him get whatever he needed; such as Xrays, records or whatever but am now not in the position to do so.


I moved your post Rose...

Everything bolded here by me today at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

Thank you for cleaning it up.
It's my opinion the facts you now have that you just fixed should be the start of a new post leading us to discuss what is known as fact.

Does that make sense? It's why I worked on it today because his story has taken on a life of it's own that it's hard to tell what post has what information.

How do you feel about editing the 1st post in this thread and putting it there?

Cubby
11-03-2009, 05:47 PM
[quote=Roselvr;4382706]Cubby.. I'm glad I came back and reread your post - I agree; does it matter if he was homeless? To me it does not.

Benjaman has a good work ethic and if finding out who he is will allow him to get a job or to collect social security benefits (because of age) then what happened in the past will not affect my personal opinion of him.

I'm very fond of him; when I originally came here I was willing to do what needed to be done to help him get whatever he needed; such as Xrays, records or whatever but am now not in the position to do so.



quote]

Thank you Roselvr. Imo, exactly. It makes no difference to me either, and yes, the search efforts could be taken in a different direction if it can be proven with accuracy he was homeless. BUT- with his limited memory, how would we really know?

As it appears, it is opinion only, on whether or not he was or was not a transient. I am not trying to be smart, or criticize any one's thoughts or direction for which to search, but IIRC, when he was first discovered, local PD had already contacted and tried to reach out to those who would be familiar with the homeless community in trying to identify him. Of course I could be confusing this with another case we worked on ages ago...... If this has not been done, or was never done by RHPD, I am more than happy and willing to do whatever to help contact any agencies who may be familiar with the homeless. Do we know whether RHPD or any of the people Mr. Kyle worked with prior to working with NB did this?

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 06:00 PM
Believe, I cleaned it up a little better - see what you think of this version. Feel free to remove the quotes as it was originally stuff you posted that I just organized into one post to make it easier for everyone.

This version can replace what I posted above.

believe09
11-03-2009, 06:34 PM
RHPD Incident reports:
1.) Incident report: Location: Burger King Case Number: 04080687 Nature of Comp: 10-37 Naked Vagrant day of the week: Tues Date: 8/31 Time: 0636 Complainant: Tom Auer Disp: 0637 how received: phone ARR: 0640 complainant phone number: 756-3181 ems: 3 &4 resp Status: misc incident operator: 217 officer:813 back up units: 814/09 comp 0658

2.) Misc Incident Rept: Nature of complaint: naked man sleeping near dumpster case number: 04080687 patrol area: south incident location: Burger King location code: 533 zone: 5 date of incident: 8-31-04 time:0640 Complainant: Tom Auer Address: same phone number :756-3181 Narrative: R/D and Cpl.Potts responded to this call and the male subject was sleeping near the dumpster. The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital. w/f Investigating Officers signature: (illegible) Number 813



Hospital admissions


Richmond Hill, Ga - 8/31/04 - 2 week stay @ St. Joseph's Hospital
Transferred to Memorial Health University Medical Center, Savannah.
In November 2004, he was taken to the J.C. Lewis Health Center.

Head finding-
A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes in the right cerebellar hemisphere.

Height/Weight/Hair/Eyes
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) His blindness, which doctors diagnosed as bad cataracts, was repaired by donated surgery.

Scars

• Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.)
XRAY taken in 3/09. BK read me the results-5" pin.
• Surgical scar on front of neck.
• Small round scar on left side of face near chin.


Dental/Fingerprints
Mr. Kyle is missing teeth:
• Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side
• Dental XRAYS are in the NCIC database.

Mr. Kyle's fingerprints are in AFIS.
His prints have been digitally and manually compared to Military Records in the event that he was active in any of the services.

DNA

Mr. Kyle's Primary DNA is in CODIS.
I have been told by NB that his MtDNA is located in a private database that they are choosing not to disclose.
His Paternal DNA has been processed by the Family Tree DNA database in Houston, TX.
Medical Records Question Answered by Memorial Hospital
I contacted Memorial's CEO today to find out if the fee as reported was still accurate. This is a copy/paste from his response:

"Mr. Kyle and his then identified care giver/guardian were given, in August 2008, 116 pages of pertinent medical records. The material was provided AT NO CHARGE. I do not appreciate the negative characterization of being uncooperative."

Memorial feels STRONGLY that they have given Benjaman all of the relevant data in regards to his stay at Memorial.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A statement from the EMT interviewed for the Dr Phil Show
Snip-"An ambulance was called to the scene. "He was totally naked. He was unresponsive. When I looked at him, he had a lot of sores on him," recalls paramedic Sue Usry."-snip

Transient -
I have the police file because of FOIA. RHPD believes that they found a transient next to the dumpster. That is the position they took in 2004 and that they are taking today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note* - The question is from the member of LE, Answer denotes NB response. *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

snip

LE question What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17, right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA. The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated 8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe" because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now.
He said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as evidence and it is too late now.

Mr. Kyle stayed in St. Joseph's Hospital for approximately two weeks.Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man [not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro (7th) floor. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the cataracts... This is also part of the LE email I (Believe) have in my files- it would be interesting to know what Mr. Kyle recalls about his vision.

Benjaman posted his vision was 20/275 prior to cataract surgery.

Please note* - *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

~snip~

"It is also interesting to note that his cataracts were not diagnosed until
approximately October of 2004. When he came out of his
unconscious/unresponsive state he would have been functionally blind. It is quite possible that he was struck on the head and became unconscious with his eyes open. The sun damage could easily have caused the cataracts.
He had other symptoms brought on from exposure to the elements including tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and elevated blood pressure. He also had apositive Babinski reflex according to the EMS report (an abnormal finding except during the first six months of life) - this would lead one to suspect neurological damage. That is probably why the EMS completely immobilized him before transporting him to the ER."
~snip~

Cubby
11-03-2009, 06:38 PM
Head finding-
We have a copy paste of some CT scan results done by the ER doc with NB notes included in them -
The doctor notes that there are 3 small lacunes noted in the CT result. *Noted by the ER Doc as three small white areas in BK's brain on the right side.

NB notes that lacunes are depressions in the skull-



Snipped from the post above from Roselvr. Ok, this may be OT, but FWIW, I'm imagining these white spots as actual spots within the brain that would not necessarily be visible from the naked eye from a view of the head. Also, FWIW, I mention this, because some people (my son included) are born with imperfections when the plates (5 or so IIRC) creating the skull do not fuse properly after birth and as they grow. My son had positional plagiocephaly requiring a molding helmut. He has very noticable 'depressions' in his skull based on how his plates fused. It is very very possible, Mr. Kyle could have slight depressions in his skull based on how the plates of his skull fused. Most people don't and would not ever notice this. I notice it, imperfect fusing of those plates, plagiocephaly and brachycephaly, because of my sons medical history.

IMO, if there were depressions in Mr. Kyles skull which resulted from injuries he received as a result of where he was found they would have been noted by the first responders and or first medical that saw him.

believe09
11-03-2009, 06:51 PM
Snipped from the post above from Roselvr. Ok, this may be OT, but FWIW, I'm imagining these white spots as actual spots within the brain that would not necessarily be visible from the naked eye from a view of the head. Also, FWIW, I mention this, because some people (my son included) are born with imperfections when the plates (5 or so IIRC) creating the skull do not fuse properly after birth and as they grow. My son had positional plagiocephaly requiring a molding helmut. He has very noticable 'depressions' in his skull based on how his plates fused. It is very very possible, Mr. Kyle could have slight depressions in his skull based on how the plates of his skull fused. Most people don't and would not ever notice this. I notice it, imperfect fusing of those plates, plagiocephaly and brachycephaly, because of my sons medical history.

IMO, if there were depressions in Mr. Kyles skull which resulted from injuries he received as a result of where he was found they would have been noted by the first responders and or first medical that saw him.


Thank you for reminding me Cubby! Somone mentioned to me offline that I was not being specific enough regarding the CT SCan.

Lacunes are an INTERNAL finding. There was nothing on the outside of his head that reflected these small spots. There was no external trauma noted on BK's head ie:Lacerations, Bumps, bruises, a depression in the skull indicating fracture. It was a normal head CT, except lacunes were noted.

dreamweaver
11-03-2009, 07:53 PM
Anyone's head spinning yet?? asked believe09.

My hand is up and I am saying yes.

fwiw:
I do not think BK was a transient.
If he was, only for a short time, his health was
too good for a transient lifestyle.

It would make sense to me that BK
was a solitary man.

Who happened to be in Richmond Hill, GA
and was found unconscious, 8/31/2004.

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 08:40 PM
Anyone's head spinning yet??

What I just did was deleted the last post I made, then went to the original here post 111 and pasted in the newest with the notes to Cubby. Feel free to hit edit on my post, copy it, then paste it into yours; then it will be the most up to date & mine can get deleted/edited out. Easier to just edit.


Anyone's head spinning yet?? asked believe09.

My hand is up and I am saying yes.

I almost feel bad that I tried to organize the facts.
Sorry it had to be posted the way it was; I was NOT able to PM it to her due to it being so long. With her being sick and doing so much as it is; I was trying to help her (and everyone else) as separating fact from fiction has been making MY head spin. Once we get the post set up; Believe can put in a new post & lock if that's what she desires.

By nature, I'm a lot like Kate Gosselin, in that I'm very anal about stuff & like to try to keep things organized. If you saw the computer forum I used to mod at you'd know I suffer bad OCD. :banghead:

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

Kentjbkent
11-03-2009, 08:59 PM
I almost feel bad that I tried to organize the facts.
Sorry it had to be posted the way it was; I was NOT able to PM it to her due to it being so long. With her being sick and doing so much as it is; I was trying to help her (and everyone else) as separating fact from fiction has been making MY head spin. Once we get the post set up; Believe can put in a new post & lock if that's what she desires.

By nature, I'm a lot like Kate Gosselin, in that I'm very anal about stuff & like to try to keep things organized. If you saw the computer forum I used to mod at you'd know I suffer bad OCD. :banghead:

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


I think you did a great job and I think it will be very useful, especially if we continually update it with new information!

Thanks!!

Julessleuther
11-03-2009, 09:11 PM
Completely O/T but I could not resist the Kate Gosselin comment...

You poor thing? You have eight children and a loser ex-husband who is milking you for every penny? LOL Sorry, I am being a naughty girl today...



What I just did was deleted the last post I made, then went to the original here post 111 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4381159#post4381159) and pasted in the newest with the notes to Cubby. Feel free to hit edit on my post, copy it, then paste it into yours; then it will be the most up to date & mine can get deleted/edited out. Easier to just edit.



I almost feel bad that I tried to organize the facts.
Sorry it had to be posted the way it was; I was NOT able to PM it to her due to it being so long. With her being sick and doing so much as it is; I was trying to help her (and everyone else) as separating fact from fiction has been making MY head spin. Once we get the post set up; Believe can put in a new post & lock if that's what she desires.

By nature, I'm a lot like Kate Gosselin, in that I'm very anal about stuff & like to try to keep things organized. If you saw the computer forum I used to mod at you'd know I suffer bad OCD. :banghead:

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

Roselvr
11-03-2009, 09:20 PM
Completely O/T but I could not resist the Kate Gosselin comment...

You poor thing? You have eight children and a loser ex-husband who is milking you for every penny? LOL Sorry, I am being a naughty girl today...

Thanks for the laugh.. needed it badly today.

Cubby
11-03-2009, 09:24 PM
Roselvr, I appreciate the manner in which you are condensing the info. It's helping me alot! rather than too much bits and pc's all over. I appreciate it very much, thank you.

believe09
11-04-2009, 08:32 AM
Don't feel bad, Rose!!! I was not being hostile or criticizing AT ALL-I think it is an excellent plan...it was my attempt at humor and nothing more. I think pulling together a stickie with what we can collect in terms of information and sources is a great idea.




What I just did was deleted the last post I made, then went to the original here post 111 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4381159#post4381159) and pasted in the newest with the notes to Cubby. Feel free to hit edit on my post, copy it, then paste it into yours; then it will be the most up to date & mine can get deleted/edited out. Easier to just edit.



I almost feel bad that I tried to organize the facts.
Sorry it had to be posted the way it was; I was NOT able to PM it to her due to it being so long. With her being sick and doing so much as it is; I was trying to help her (and everyone else) as separating fact from fiction has been making MY head spin. Once we get the post set up; Believe can put in a new post & lock if that's what she desires.

By nature, I'm a lot like Kate Gosselin, in that I'm very anal about stuff & like to try to keep things organized. If you saw the computer forum I used to mod at you'd know I suffer bad OCD. :banghead:

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

Roselvr
11-04-2009, 09:19 AM
Don't feel bad, Rose!!! I was not being hostile or criticizing AT ALL-I think it is an excellent plan...it was my attempt at humor and nothing more. I think pulling together a stickie with what we can collect in terms of information and sources is a great idea.

Sorry, bad day yesterday.
Turning into high stress morning.

dreamweaver
11-04-2009, 12:03 PM
Sorry, bad day yesterday.
Turning into high stress morning.
=============
Roselvr:

Having all verified information at hand is a great idea.
A sticky thread. I like it.

Take care of yourself. Breathe.

believe09
11-04-2009, 03:10 PM
Guys-LilE is a genius.....wait til you see what lil came up with....supports the catastrophic event theory!!!!

dreamweaver
11-04-2009, 03:22 PM
Guys-LilE is a genius.....wait til you see what lil came up with....supports the catastrophic event theory!!!!
========================

Uh, maybe it is just me,
but I have no idea what you are talking about.
..catastrophic event theory...????
Help.

Julessleuther
11-04-2009, 03:36 PM
LOL. I am guessing she perhaps means that he was caught in one of the hurricanes that came through the area right before he was found. I am all ears (or in this case eyes!)



========================

Uh, maybe it is just me,
but I have no idea what you are talking about.
..catastrophic event theory...????
Help.

believe09
11-04-2009, 03:40 PM
Hey arent you guys living inside of my head yet??? :crazy:

The catastrophic event theory= (in Believe's mind) is a concept that all of his scarring came from a single event like a car accident.

In otherwords, maybe his elbow was broken, his neck was broken etc...at one time. Maybe his neck is fused.

Does this make more sense?

I will go take some Aleve now....





========================

Uh, maybe it is just me,
but I have no idea what you are talking about.
..catastrophic event theory...????
Help.


LOL. I am guessing she perhaps means that he was caught in one of the hurricanes that came through the area right before he was found. I am all ears (or in this case eyes!)

Julessleuther
11-04-2009, 03:40 PM
Nope, my bad...it looks like they are discussing it on the other thread...

Roselvr
11-04-2009, 05:08 PM
I think this is the thread in question

link


George Everette Melton
http://www.nampn.org/cases/melton_george.html

"Melton suffered a head injury prior to his 1997
disappearance. He may be disoriented and have trouble recognizing people and
places, and may not recall his identity as a result of his condition."


=============
Roselvr:

Having all verified information at hand is a great idea.
A sticky thread. I like it.

Take care of yourself. Breathe.

Thanks. A valium would work better. lol

believe09
11-04-2009, 07:59 PM
I hope Lil will forgive me if I close the loop-

Lil wanted to know if any studies had been done on BK's neck and spine. Given the location of the scar on his neck, s/he said he appeared to have scarring that was similar to someone she knows-right to the scar on his jaw. S/he indicated that the divet on the jaw of the person she knows was because the halo for the persons broken neck was screwed into that persons jaw.

I loved it as an alternative to the abscessed tooth theory-perhaps BK had his neck fused and his elbow repaired during a "catastrophic event" such as a car accident.

I could not find an example of a Halo brace that screwed into the jaw....so hopefully Lil will come back and comment... :)

Lil'E
11-04-2009, 08:21 PM
Sorry Believe, I was watching the grandkids today and just noticed your post here. Glad you posted it. For those of you that are wondering what the heck I was talking about, I sent Believe a PM this morning and ...well I will just post it here as well.


Originally Posted by Lil'E
Hello Believe,

I have a question for you, could you please elaborate on the extent of Benjaman's surgery on the cervical spine? It looks like it was an anterior incision with a horizontal cut from the close up photos of him in the red shirt. This could be to fuse or repair a disc. I am curious if he has had a recent mri or x ray of the head and cervical spine? The reason for my curiosity is I have seen these scars before on a friend of mine's mother who was in a bad car accident. She even had the same indentation in her jaw (broken), a pin was place there and removed after healing. If indeed this was the reason for his surgery I would like to research traffic accidents and juxtapose them with missing adults.

Much Thanks
Lil'E


I do wish we could get him a simple x ray and see if this was his scenario, and the rest should be easy considering such great talent we have here at WS. You all amaze me.

Believe..thanks again! BTW I am female. :)

Roselvr
11-04-2009, 08:29 PM
I hope Lil will forgive me if I close the loop-

Lil wanted to know if any studies had been done on BK's neck and spine. Given the location of the scar on his neck, s/he said he appeared to have scarring that was similar to someone she knows-right to the scar on his jaw. S/he indicated that the divet on the jaw of the person she knows was because the halo for the persons broken neck was screwed into that persons jaw.

I loved it as an alternative to the abscessed tooth theory-perhaps BK had his neck fused and his elbow repaired during a "catastrophic event" such as a car accident.

I could not find an example of a Halo brace that screwed into the jaw....so hopefully Lil will come back and comment... :)

To add to that, I also saw something similar with the elbow surgery which is why I was asking for pin location.

If they did something like that, I don't think it's regular spine surgery. It would be something very invasive and probably something to do with the part of the skull where it meets the spine.

Lil'E
11-04-2009, 10:41 PM
The only photographic image I could find of the device used to stabalize the lower mandible is an older black and white picture but it should give you some insight as to why the patient is left with a punctue scar in the jaw. Here is the link, one of the photos is a bit gross, so beware.

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Surg-pt1-c16-4.html

Wendy101
11-04-2009, 11:40 PM
The only photographic image I could find of the device used to stabalize the lower mandible is an older black and white picture but it should give you some insight as to why the patient is left with a punctue scar in the jaw. Here is the link, one of the photos is a bit gross, so beware.

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Surg-pt1-c16-4.html


Ouch!

Roselvr
11-06-2009, 04:28 PM
The only photographic image I could find of the device used to stabalize the lower mandible is an older black and white picture but it should give you some insight as to why the patient is left with a punctue scar in the jaw. Here is the link, one of the photos is a bit gross, so beware.

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Surg-pt1-c16-4.html

Thank you.

I was looking around the site after you posted it; I was reading this is from World War I and II. I'm now curious how long they used an appliance like that.

~Snip~

The advances that took place during the Second World War then were: (i) Much-improved methods of fixation, particularly in edentulous cases. (ii) Better control of infection by using antibiotics. (iii) The use of cancellous bone, which is more viable under conditions of infection.

Lil'E
11-10-2009, 12:50 AM
Thank you.

I was looking around the site after you posted it; I was reading this is from World War I and II. I'm now curious how long they used an appliance like that.

~Snip~

The advances that took place during the Second World War then were: (i) Much-improved methods of fixation, particularly in edentulous cases. (ii) Better control of infection by using antibiotics. (iii) The use of cancellous bone, which is more viable under conditions of infection.

Roselvr, my friend's mother was using a device similar to this in the mid 60's, I am not sure what method is currently being used. Should I come across info on the subject I will certainly post it.

cleo612
11-10-2009, 03:40 AM
I am really new to this case. I have seen the forum for it here at WS for months and always seem to skip over it for some reason. I just happened to see the Starting from Scratch thread and thought I would pop in to see what the case is all about. I am only on page 2 of this thread, so this may have already been brought up in previous threads, or even in this one, but I have an idea.

It was mentioned that Mr. Kyle has 2 pins in his elbow. Most surgical pins have serial numbers that can be traced. Has this been considered as an option for tracking who may have received these pins? Obviously, it would require a surgical procedure in order to read the numbers, but 5 years is a very long time for this man to be wondering who he is. He deserves to know his identity.

One other question I have is whether or not there is a listing showing things that have already been done in order to publicize this case, as well as rule outs on other missing persons?

I will be back tomorrow to catch up on the rest of this thread. I am intrigued now.

believe09
11-10-2009, 10:03 AM
I am really new to this case. I have seen the forum for it here at WS for months and always seem to skip over it for some reason. I just happened to see the Starting from Scratch thread and thought I would pop in to see what the case is all about. I am only on page 2 of this thread, so this may have already been brought up in previous threads, or even in this one, but I have an idea.

It was mentioned that Mr. Kyle has 2 pins in his elbow. Most surgical pins have serial numbers that can be traced. Has this been considered as an option for tracking who may have received these pins? Obviously, it would require a surgical procedure in order to read the numbers, but 5 years is a very long time for this man to be wondering who he is. He deserves to know his identity.

One other question I have is whether or not there is a listing showing things that have already been done in order to publicize this case, as well as rule outs on other missing persons?

I will be back tomorrow to catch up on the rest of this thread. I am intrigued now.

Welcome!!!! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

We love fresh eyes. The simple answer is yes and yes to both of your questions-Mr. Kyle is not a fan of having the pin removed in order to see if there is a serial number on it, and I for one support him. There is probably enough calcification over it that it would be a problem and may not bear any result if it was put in prior to pins being marked.

Read through the forum for the list of rule outs and the media contacts that have been made for him...

Roselvr
11-11-2009, 07:58 AM
The simple answer is yes and yes to both of your questions-Mr. Kyle is not a fan of having the pin removed in order to see if there is a serial number on it, and I for one support him. There is probably enough calcification over it that it would be a problem and may not bear any result if it was put in prior to pins being marked.

There probably is no serial number on it.
IIRC, things like this do not get serial numbers.

nerosleuth
11-27-2009, 01:53 AM
I'm new to this Benjaman Kyle thread as a fresh pair of eyes and mind. I find his case to be mysterious and intriguing.

I was thinking about Mr. Kyle's memory regarding living in Indianapolis.

In another thread, it was mentioned the connection between his chosen first name Benjaman and Benjamin Harrison, who was the 23rd President of the United States from Indiana. We know that both the Benjamin Harrison house and Fort Benjamin Harrison are in Indianapolis.

It could be possible that Mr. Kyle had a family member who worked as a civilian employee at Fort Benjamin Harrison, or he could have a family member who was in the military and stationed there. It's also possible that he could have lived near Fort Benjamin Harrison.

Has Mr. Kyle ever mentioned or recalled any telephone numbers?

Here's what I'm thinking. It's possible that he someday could remember an old telephone number years ago of a close relative by heart. That relative could be deceased and the old telephone number is put out of service by the telephone company for a number of years before it is reactivated again.

Now since he said that he had lived in Indianapolis and Denver before, there is a way to find old telephone numbers. I believe the reference departments of the main public libraries in Indianapolis and possibly Denver would have what is called the Criss-Cross Directory.

The Criss-Cross Directory is a very big book directory which lists the full names of folks living in those areas and possibly their occupations. You can do a cross reference by address number and street name. You can also do a cross reference by telephone number, where it would list all the exchanges of a phone number prefix.

Here is a link to Criss-Cross Directory company that will give you an idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.haines.com/ccdir1.htm

It is my understanding that the Criss-Cross Directory has been in published since 1932 in certain metropolitan areas across the United States.

So it's possible that the Indianapolis and Denver main libraries could have the Criss-Cross Directories from years ago in their reference or genealogy departments. It's also possible that they could have old telephone books from years ago as well.

believe09
11-27-2009, 08:46 AM
I'm new to this Benjaman Kyle thread as a fresh pair of eyes and mind. I find his case to be mysterious and intriguing.

I was thinking about Mr. Kyle's memory regarding living in Indianapolis.

In another thread, it was mentioned the connection between his chosen first name Benjaman and Benjamin Harrison, who was the 23rd President of the United States from Indiana. We know that both the Benjamin Harrison house and Fort Benjamin Harrison are in Indianapolis.

It could be possible that Mr. Kyle had a family member who worked as a civilian employee at Fort Benjamin Harrison, or he could have a family member who was in the military and stationed there. It's also possible that he could have lived near Fort Benjamin Harrison.

Has Mr. Kyle ever mentioned or recalled any telephone numbers?

Here's what I'm thinking. It's possible that he someday could remember an old telephone number years ago of a close relative by heart. That relative could be deceased and the old telephone number is put out of service by the telephone company for a number of years before it is reactivated again.

Now since he said that he had lived in Indianapolis and Denver before, there is a way to find old telephone numbers. I believe the reference departments of the main public libraries in Indianapolis and possibly Denver would have what is called the Criss-Cross Directory.

The Criss-Cross Directory is a very big book directory which lists the full names of folks living in those areas and possibly their occupations. You can do a cross reference by address number and street name. You can also do a cross reference by telephone number, where it would list all the exchanges of a phone number prefix.

Here is a link to Criss-Cross Directory company that will give you an idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.haines.com/ccdir1.htm

It is my understanding that the Criss-Cross Directory has been in published since 1932 in certain metropolitan areas across the United States.

So it's possible that the Indianapolis and Denver main libraries could have the Criss-Cross Directories from years ago in their reference or genealogy departments. It's also possible that they could have old telephone books from years ago as well.

WELCOME!!!!!!! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

We are excited when new minds join us here-o/t I love your hat because Nero Wolfe is one of my favorite charecters...

I am not a number person-when did they start using area codes and could the number he recidted under hypnosis as part of his SSN be a phone number as others have suggested??

3x544xxxx

carolwood
11-27-2009, 12:08 PM
WELCOME!!!!!!! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

We are excited when new minds join us here-o/t I love your hat because Nero Wolfe is one of my favorite charecters...

I am not a number person-when did they start using area codes and could the number he recidted under hypnosis as part of his SSN be a phone number as others have suggested??

3x544xxxxYes, WELCOME!

I think they started using area codes in the 70's Believe, if I remember correctly. I can also remember my childhood phone number and great grandmothers phone number and old addresses, very well. We had Rt. numbers before 911 became popular, this also changed around the early 80's.
For some reason I have a good memory of the my early childhood, 65-73 (born in 62) and then a big gap, ugh, drives me crazy, I want to remember it all, lol.

carolwood
11-27-2009, 12:15 PM
Oh, another thing, in the 60's and 70's, here we only dialed 5 numbers, then sometimes in the 70's it went to 7 numbers, and this was just for dialing local numbers.

We've always dialed "out of the area" numbers here, with the area code, and the 7 digit number.

justthinkin
11-28-2009, 12:00 AM
Dang, Carolwood, I'm almost old enough to be your mother. I'll trade you my wisdom for your youth.:blowkiss:

nerosleuth
11-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Area codes were established in 1947. It was first used by operators connecting long distance calls. Direct dialing was gradually instituted throughout the country during the 1950’s.

It wasn’t until the mid-1960’s that folks across America could dial directly using the area code and phone number without using the operator to make a long distance call.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_area_codes

nerosleuth
11-28-2009, 01:03 AM
The difference between a social security number and a telephone number is the number of digits.

A person’s Social security number will always have 9 digits.

Telephone numbers with the area code and the phone number will always have 10 digits.

Telephone numbers without the area code will always have 7 digits.

I was looking at the number that Mr. Kyle recited while he was under hypnosis. At first glance, 3x544xxxx is a 9 digit social security number.

But as others have suggested, we cannot dismiss the possibility that the number he recited could be a phone number.

I looked and broke down the number sequence. Keeping in mind that Mr. Kyle has amnesia, I have some ideas how the number he recited could be a phone number.

Possibility #1 for 3x544xxxx

3x5 first 3 numbers could be the area code.

44x xxx first three numbers could be the exchange number, and then the last 3 numbers could be the phone number for the exchange with the last digit missing.

These are the current area codes in use today with 3x5

Area Code 305 Florida: Miami-Dade County area

Area Code 315 New York: Syracuse-Watertown area

Area Code 325 Texas: Abilene-San Angelo area (created in 2003)

Possibility #2 for 3x544xxxx

3x could have been the first two digits of the area code where he could only remember the first digit of the area code.

544xxxx first three numbers could be the exchange number and the last 4 numbers could be the phone number that he couldn’t remember.

I would have to say that it would be a lot of area codes starting with 3x in the United States.

Possibility #3 for 3x544xxxx

3x5 first 3 numbers could be the exchange number.

44x xxx the first 2 numbers could be the first part of the phone number for the exchange with the last two digits missing.

We know that Mr. Kyle has said that he remembers living in Indianapolis and also in Denver.

The area code for Denver is 303.

The area code for Indianapolis is 317.

After looking at the number sequence and taking Mr. Kyle's amnesia situation, it is quite possible that he could be trying to remember a phone number from Indianapolis or Denver.

eeyorelrn
12-02-2009, 03:37 AM
this is where things are tricky, Zaha. It is almost like a game of telephone that I can see in the media....I am busily trying to trace the origin of the statements.

For Example: We have a copy paste of some CT scan results done by the ER doc with NB notes included in them. From what I can see, the notations made by NB were included as fact rather than being separated out. The doctor notes that there are 3 small lacunes noted in the CT result. NB notes that lacunes are depressions in the skull-in fact, lacunes are defined as follows-
"arteries penetrating deep into the brain become blocked by atherosclerosis, causing areas of surrounding tissue to lose their blood supply. The tissue may then wither, creating minute holes, called lacunes. A succession of transient ischemic attacks over the years can riddle the brain, causing dementia."

This is from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Lacunes can be part of a stroke diagnoses. Basically they were noted by the ER Doc as three small white areas in BK's brain on the right side. They could be a sign of an aging brain, they could be a sign of a previous stroke but they are not definitive examples of a previous skull fracture or depression.

Somehow, this has evolved to BK having signs of a head injury when he was found.

Am I making any sense?



I worked in the Radiology Department at Duke University Hospital for 6 months doing a travel RN assignemnt a few years ago. The Radiologists there only used the phrase 'lacunar' in reference to a stroke. There was not another instance where this was used. If there was a possibility that it could be a cystic fluid buildup (which could resemble a lacune in some instances), they would actually state something to the effect of "possibly a cyst versus..." then state that they could not determine what it was without furhter review with a MRI (which is what Duke uses for most all of their brain scans where they need definitive clear pictures, like with their Brain Tumor Center patients.)

Also, I have never seen "lacunar" or "lacunes" used in any Radiology reports when referencing age related atrophy. It is generally reported as "white/grey matter atrophy consistant with aging." Now with plaques, like those seen in MS, some Alzheimers, and some atherosclerotic changes, usually the radiologists report says "plaque" or "plaque like".

Without seeing the actual (original) CT Scan report, and just going by what what was revealed in several quotes here on the board, I would see 'lacunes' and immediately think stroke, as most of my collegues would too.

Here is a link to some more info, including a chart with signs and symptoms related to where the infarct is... Interestingly, no memory issues are listed, so these lacunes could be a mute point in relation to his amnesia. The brain is a wonderous yet tricky thing, so who knows... :waitasec:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacunar_stroke

believe09
12-02-2009, 10:34 AM
I worked in the Radiology Department at Duke University Hospital for 6 months doing a travel RN assignemnt a few years ago. The Radiologists there only used the phrase 'lacunar' in reference to a stroke. There was not another instance where this was used. If there was a possibility that it could be a cystic fluid buildup (which could resemble a lacune in some instances), they would actually state something to the effect of "possibly a cyst versus..." then state that they could not determine what it was without furhter review with a MRI (which is what Duke uses for most all of their brain scans where they need definitive clear pictures, like with their Brain Tumor Center patients.)

Also, I have never seen "lacunar" or "lacunes" used in any Radiology reports when referencing age related atrophy. It is generally reported as "white/grey matter atrophy consistant with aging." Now with plaques, like those seen in MS, some Alzheimers, and some atherosclerotic changes, usually the radiologists report says "plaque" or "plaque like".

Without seeing the actual (original) CT Scan report, and just going by what what was revealed in several quotes here on the board, I would see 'lacunes' and immediately think stroke, as most of my collegues would too.

Here is a link to some more info, including a chart with signs and symptoms related to where the infarct is... Interestingly, no memory issues are listed, so these lacunes could be a mute point in relation to his amnesia. The brain is a wonderous yet tricky thing, so who knows... :waitasec:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacunar_stroke

I appreciate your perspective. The key for me is whether you can have a CT that is normal and yet have found lacunes. Now, either this was indicative of a past event and there fore discounted by the medical staff or it was a blatant disregard of the fact that Mr. Kyle had clearly had a stroke and that it was a possible explanation for any symptoms he was experiencing.

Medicine is constantly changing-would an ER doc and a radiologist have recognized a lacunar stroke in 2004? That is another question I ask myself.

I want to bring attention to the fact that the definition of lacunes is NOT depressions or even indicative of a closed head injury, which is also a key to this finding. There is no evidence that Mr. Kyle suffered a blow to the head-at least of this writing. I think the CT is a good key to a different explanation right? I have seen the results of several different kinds of strokes in my time-at the minimum confusion is a common symptom in my layperson's experience.

TY for posting with us!

believe09
12-02-2009, 10:36 AM
http://70.254.75.132/TLCScripts/interpac.dll?LabelDisplay&DataNumber=550253495&RecordNumber=52793&SearchAvailableOnly=0&FormId=-198&ItemField=2&Config=epmlysm&Branch=,0,

Julessleuther
12-02-2009, 08:31 PM
Wow Believe! I found it at B & N too:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Muammar-El-Qaddafi/Benjamin-Kyle/e/9780877545989

I also found this:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chemical-and-Process-Thermodynamics/Benjamin-G-Kyle/e/9780131286375/?itm=3

It appears that this is the author of the above books, at least the 2nd one:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-G-Kyle/1831823754

http://www.eoht.info/page/Benjamin+Kyle

http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n82-220971

dreamweaver
12-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Wow Believe! I found it at B & N too:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Muammar-El-Qaddafi/Benjamin-Kyle/e/9780877545989

I also found this:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chemical-and-Process-Thermodynamics/Benjamin-G-Kyle/e/9780131286375/?itm=3

It appears that this is the author of the above books, at least the 2nd one:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-G-Kyle/1831823754

http://www.eoht.info/page/Benjamin+Kyle

http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n82-220971

===
Hey Jules:
I found the same links, except I did not find the fb page.
Nice job.
and nice to see his face.
And obviously this man is a wordy guy, able to produce all those books.

Roselvr
12-03-2009, 07:34 AM
I worked in the Radiology Department at Duke University Hospital for 6 months doing a travel RN assignemnt a few years ago. The Radiologists there only used the phrase 'lacunar' in reference to a stroke. There was not another instance where this was used. If there was a possibility that it could be a cystic fluid buildup (which could resemble a lacune in some instances), they would actually state something to the effect of "possibly a cyst versus..." then state that they could not determine what it was without furhter review with a MRI (which is what Duke uses for most all of their brain scans where they need definitive clear pictures, like with their Brain Tumor Center patients.)

Also, I have never seen "lacunar" or "lacunes" used in any Radiology reports when referencing age related atrophy. It is generally reported as "white/grey matter atrophy consistant with aging." Now with plaques, like those seen in MS, some Alzheimers, and some atherosclerotic changes, usually the radiologists report says "plaque" or "plaque like".

Without seeing the actual (original) CT Scan report, and just going by what what was revealed in several quotes here on the board, I would see 'lacunes' and immediately think stroke, as most of my collegues would too.

Here is a link to some more info, including a chart with signs and symptoms related to where the infarct is... Interestingly, no memory issues are listed, so these lacunes could be a mute point in relation to his amnesia. The brain is a wonderous yet tricky thing, so who knows... :waitasec:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacunar_stroke

Question, and this is NOT related to Ben.
What do calcium deposits mean on a head CT?


.

believe09
12-03-2009, 10:01 AM
Wow Believe! I found it at B & N too:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Muammar-El-Qaddafi/Benjamin-Kyle/e/9780877545989

I also found this:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chemical-and-Process-Thermodynamics/Benjamin-G-Kyle/e/9780131286375/?itm=3

It appears that this is the author of the above books, at least the 2nd one:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-G-Kyle/1831823754

http://www.eoht.info/page/Benjamin+Kyle

http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n82-220971


===
Hey Jules:
I found the same links, except I did not find the fb page.
Nice job.
and nice to see his face.
And obviously this man is a wordy guy, able to produce all those books.

So what might it mean that we have someone with a nome de plume (sp?) out there with our guy's name???? Pretty weird coincidence I have to say!!!
Additionally, Gottfried appears to be active in the Coalition for Homeless community action group....

Julessleuther
12-12-2009, 10:00 PM
Anything new going on? It's been so quiet here!

Cubby
12-12-2009, 10:43 PM
Every few months I add Mr. Kyles information to my single parents group. (as well as a few other cases from time to time). If nothing else, it brings cases such as Mr Kyles to the eyes of people who may not look at crime or missing persons sites.

Two people replied. One wanted to know what she could do via sending donations, or collecting donations for clothes etc.- In addition to sending his info to everyone she knows. I kindly responded Mr. Kyle doesn't accept 'charity' so to speak, but passing his picture and story around with the request of trying to get it to those who may have known him based on his memories of Colorado and Indiana..... It may not be a lot, but imo it is something. There are appx 7200 members at this SP group, which includes parents of all ages, and grandparents, so not just young uns.

Myself, on an off beat note, I keep thinking of some way to tie the BK with KB aka King of Beers now that superbowl time is approaching. Complete wish list, but I was just dreaming how nice it would be to have Mr. Kyle do a super bowl commercial for Anheuser Busch.... Surely he'd be identified if his face and info made national TV during the Super Bowl. I can dream, and I can wish.... even if it isn't likely realistic. ;)

I'm stumped on this case right now.

Julessleuther
12-13-2009, 01:16 AM
Wow Cubby, what a crazy, off beat idea for BK---I love it! Maybe since he lived in CO we could get Coors to do it? I have no idea how, but what an awesome idea!


Every few months I add Mr. Kyles information to my single parents group. (as well as a few other cases from time to time). If nothing else, it brings cases such as Mr Kyles to the eyes of people who may not look at crime or missing persons sites.

Two people replied. One wanted to know what she could do via sending donations, or collecting donations for clothes etc.- In addition to sending his info to everyone she knows. I kindly responded Mr. Kyle doesn't accept 'charity' so to speak, but passing his picture and story around with the request of trying to get it to those who may have known him based on his memories of Colorado and Indiana..... It may not be a lot, but imo it is something. There are appx 7200 members at this SP group, which includes parents of all ages, and grandparents, so not just young uns.

Myself, on an off beat note, I keep thinking of some way to tie the BK with KB aka King of Beers now that superbowl time is approaching. Complete wish list, but I was just dreaming how nice it would be to have Mr. Kyle do a super bowl commercial for Anheuser Busch.... Surely he'd be identified if his face and info made national TV during the Super Bowl. I can dream, and I can wish.... even if it isn't likely realistic. ;)

I'm stumped on this case right now.

dreamweaver
12-13-2009, 07:25 AM
Does anyone know if we are to be passing media ideas through Colleen F or NB first?

IMO, I think we just go ahead. Nothing has been out there lately.
Newsweek article did not pan out, for whatever reason.
I only saw the one news article from Kansas, nothing from Oklahoma.

Cubby
12-13-2009, 01:10 PM
Wow Cubby, what a crazy, off beat idea for BK---I love it! Maybe since he lived in CO we could get Coors to do it? I have no idea how, but what an awesome idea!


Coors would work too, but none of us know anyone who makes commercials. My dad used to work for one of the big ad agencies but he's been retired for so long, we don't have those contacts anymore. It was just one of those odd things that crossed my mind because I am so frustrated Mr. Kyle isn't yet id'd. Not saying, if I had the contacts I wouldn't toss the idea out there because I certainly would. But to who?

thanks!

Cubby
12-13-2009, 01:14 PM
Does anyone know if we are to be passing media ideas through Colleen F or NB first?

IMO, I think we just go ahead. Nothing has been out there lately.
Newsweek article did not pan out, for whatever reason.
I only saw the one news article from Kansas, nothing from Oklahoma.

I put the idea's out here... imo, if they are interested in our idea's they can come here and read them, unless someone from here who is in contact with them brings the suggestions. Though, I think that would be a lot to ask.... so, I just go back to if they are interested, the idea's are right here to read.

I'm still :waitasec: why no national media is interested in picking up Mr. Kyles story. Regardless if the beating occured or not, the fact still remains this man can not work, drive...and is so limited in what he can do legally, he needs to be identified.

jmo

Roselvr
12-13-2009, 06:40 PM
Jane Velez Mitchell is my facebook friend as is Tori Spelling's hubby (plus a few others) & a blogger that's getting pretty well known. If we can get our act together with correct info, I'd be happy to pass it on to them.

I wish I had more time.. Hubby has had the lowest few weeks with his cancer treatment.. well month or so I should say :(

.

nerosleuth
12-15-2009, 10:11 PM
now that superbowl time is approaching. Complete wish list, but I was just dreaming how nice it would be to have Mr. Kyle do a super bowl commercial for Anheuser Busch.... Surely he'd be identified if his face and info made national TV during the Super Bowl. I can dream, and I can wish.... even if it isn't likely realistic. ;)

Cubby, that is a wonderful idea! If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Super Bowl is carried live by other networks around the globe. Maybe the NFL or United Way could do a PSA for Mr. Kyle during the Super Bowl. The only other sporting event that I can think of that is carried live around the world is the World Series.

On another note, we all know that Mr. Kyle's story was carried on the Dr. Phil show, but that show usually is shown during the mornings or afternoons.

We need to have Mr. Kyle's story on national television during prime time where it would be seen by a huge number of television viewers.

I'm thinking maybe he could appear on Larry King on CNN, but it would only be seen by cable television viewers. Perhaps Mr. Kyle's story could appear on national network television, such as 60 minutes on CBS, or maybe on Jay Leno Show on NBC.

Maybe other sleuthers on this forum have better ideas than I have. Let's all think of any ideas that would help have Mr. Kyle's story be told to the largest television audience possible.

Cubby
12-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Does anyone know if those working with Mr. Kyle are approaching any of these suggestions? I'd love to see Mr. Kyle on a national program such as 60 minutes. I'm hoping maybe the people doing the documentary will submit some of their footage to the national news stations.....

Julessleuther
12-28-2009, 04:23 AM
I was on another thread here at WS and noticed that someone posted information about a fire in 1973 at the National Military Personnel Records building in St. Louis. I searched wiki for the info, and supposedly 16 million military records were distroyed. It made me think of BK. Supposedly only Army records were destroyed. Maybe he DID have a military record, did have fingerprints taken etc but the records were destroyed. They reconstucted records based on pay stubs etc, but I wonder if some records were never reconstructed....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Personnel_Records_Center

carolwood
12-28-2009, 01:16 PM
I was on another thread here at WS and noticed that someone posted information about a fire in 1973 at the National Military Personnel Records building in St. Louis. I searched wiki for the info, and supposedly 16 million military records were distroyed. It made me think of BK. Supposedly only Army records were destroyed. Maybe he DID have a military record, did have fingerprints taken etc but the records were destroyed. They reconstucted records based on pay stubs etc, but I wonder if some records were never reconstructed....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Personnel_Records_CenterAnd, I am wondering if they re-fingerprinted these?

Julessleuther
12-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Exactly what I was thinking Carolwood. If they could not find everyone, then they would not have those fingerprints on record. SO...BK COULD have a military record, but no fingerprints on file, potentially...
And, I am wondering if they re-fingerprinted these?

carolwood
12-28-2009, 05:13 PM
Exactly what I was thinking Carolwood. If they could not find everyone, then they would not have those fingerprints on record. SO...BK COULD have a military record, but no fingerprints on file, potentially...Wonder if there is a list of these people?

carolwood
12-28-2009, 05:19 PM
Just found this, and unlikely Benjaman would be included in these files:

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html

Roselvr
12-28-2009, 06:00 PM
Just found this, and unlikely Benjaman would be included in these files:

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html

Excellent work.
I've always doubted they had everyone's fingerprints.

I'm also unsure if he ever served due to the draft. I'll have to bring one of my posts over from another place.

If he was in the service; it may explain some of his injuries.



.

carolwood
12-30-2009, 04:50 AM
I have put together a list of Powell's, born in Aug. 1948. It has about 300 names, men and woman. I won't post the names of these people, but if I could get some help with finding information on these people, please pm me and I can give a list of say 50 or so? Let me know.

Julessleuther
12-30-2009, 10:44 PM
I can help you, I am done with exams now!

carolwood
12-31-2009, 12:53 PM
I can help you, I am done with exams now!

I sent you a pm with names, thanks Jules!

Julessleuther
01-05-2010, 03:07 AM
Working on it...

bluestarzz
01-06-2010, 10:26 PM
the only problem w/ the dna, is the Powell surname could be anywhere in his mother's history, many years ago.
bluestarzzz

carolwood
01-07-2010, 12:44 AM
the only problem w/ the dna, is the Powell surname could be anywhere in his mother's history, many years ago.
bluestarzzzThat is not correct, his y-dna is from his father, and his father, from his father and so on. Read this:

http://www.dnaheritage.com/ystr.asp

Powell would be his surname, unless of course he was adopted or something of the nature.

believe09
01-07-2010, 09:57 AM
That is not correct, his y-dna is from his father, and his father, from his father and so on. Read this:

http://www.dnaheritage.com/ystr.asp

Powell would be his surname, unless of course he was adopted or something of the nature.

Or if his DNA mutated- one in 500 males have YDNA that mutates....

carolwood
01-07-2010, 12:58 PM
Or if his DNA mutated- one in 500 males have YDNA that mutates....

Even though his dna is mutated, it doesn't mean he is not related to Powell.

"Y-DNA cannot be lost, destroyed, or changed; and it is never wrong! Y-DNA testing can also help to correct mistakes in written genealogies."

see:
http://www.pagey-dna.org/y-dna_testing.htm

In my opinion, mutations, when it occurs, will carry forward, say 500 males. It will not change the surname, but will change when a person is related. Ben, for instance is related to a Joseph Powell Group. When he is related we don't know due to a mutation which may have occured during the time. But the who is Joseph Powell. This is my interpretation of what I am reading. Please correct me, I am not keen on y-dna testing as a whole. I rely strickly on the readings of it.

carolwood
01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
Here is another on mutations:

http://www.smgf.org/pages/mutations.jspx

Babyslims
01-07-2010, 11:46 PM
Hi Ya'll!!!!!!! I haven't checked out Bk's case as often as I use to so this may be a repeat (sorry in advance) The other day I was actually searching for a missing persons's picture and as I googled they're name I got to this site.
http://who-me.com/default.htf I punched in the name Powell and there's some listed!!!

Shoot check your own name!!! I found some shockin info for myself lol :angel:

Julessleuther
01-07-2010, 11:56 PM
Here is what came up with last name Powell, and birth year 1948:

Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=6080&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199500)
(USA)
Friend (http://who-me.com/GResFriend.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b) Clyde M~62 Last known locale: Berkeley, California USA
College Degree: Pacific School of Religion
Other: friend of David White
http://who-me.com/images/NoteIcon28x30T.gif (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=71104&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199515) Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=71104&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199515)
(USA)
Missing (http://who-me.com/GResMissing.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b) Randy M58 Looking for Father-In-Law
Last known locale: South Carolina USA
http://who-me.com/images/NoteIcon28x30T.gif (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=7319&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199531) Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=7319&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199531)
(Germany)
Friend (http://who-me.com/GResFriend.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b) Thomas M~61 Last known locale: Darmstadt/Frankfurt, Darmstadt/Frankfurt Germany
Grad Year(H.S.): Frankfurt American High School
Locale/Vicinity: Darmstadt, Germany
Special Place: Living Room

I did it for the year 1949 and came up with the following. I found the first one interesting:

Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VGY7SRe4512026L7VSKHb&NoteID=90343&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75400531)
(USA)
Missing (http://who-me.com/GResMissing.htf?Donut=w371VGY7SRe4512026L7VSKHb) Albert M55 Looking for Brother
Last known locale: Ellijay, GA USA

Ellijay is in North GA, near the TN border. The wierd thing is that I found a SSDI for an Albert Powell from GA who died Feb 16, 2003, but this request for finding him was from May 2003. Maybe they did not know he was dead?

I did find a David Powell on the site, age 53, from Jackson, MS. (See below) The interesting thing is that he worked for a GA company, but went missing in 1996.

Looking For (Full Name): DAVID W. (DAVID) POWELL Gender: Male Last known City: JACKSON Birth Year: 1957 (approximate age ~53) Last known State/Prov.: MS Family Relationship: Last known Country: USA US Social Security #: College Degree BS; Eye Color: Profession/Job MANUFACTURING ENGINEER Hair Color: Company Name UNIVERSAL MFG; KEMLON PRODUCTS; GA. SO. COLLEGE; H Date Note Posted: Aug 09 1996

When I did an ancestry search, I found several David W Powells, so it was hard to pinpoint without an exact birthdate. HOWEVER, the person looking David is from Castle Rock, CO!!

J.Q.Turner & Assoc. Inc. Contact Name: Jim Turner (President) Address: 200 S. Wilcox St. #217 City/State/Zip: Castle Rock, Colorado 80104-1913 Country: USA Phone Day: 303-688-0188 Phone Night: Phone Fax: Require Email Phone Pager: Email Address: http://who-me.com/images/smiley.gif = Has tested OK. Use Email form below (http://who-me.com/FLookerInfo.htf#MailFormTop) Web Page URL: http://jqt.com (http://jqt.com/) Special Message From Searcher: Have lost touch with you. Please contact us to update old resume information for current/future job opportunities.




Hi Ya'll!!!!!!! I haven't checked out Bk's case as often as I use to so this may be a repeat (sorry in advance) The other day I was actually searching for a missing persons's picture and as I googled they're name I got to this site.
http://who-me.com/default.htf I punched in the name Powell and there's some listed!!!

Shoot check your own name!!! I found some shockin info for myself lol :angel:

Babyslims
01-08-2010, 12:02 AM
I did not put in a birth year at all and there was 22 listings. I know some do not match at all (age or sex) Is he sure he was born in 1948 or something? (sorry I'm way behind, I know the general info on BK but not all the little details)



Here is what came up with last name Powell, and birth year 1948:

Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=6080&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199500)
(USA)
Friend (http://who-me.com/GResFriend.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b) Clyde M~62 Last known locale: Berkeley, California USA
College Degree: Pacific School of Religion
Other: friend of David White
http://who-me.com/images/NoteIcon28x30T.gif (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=71104&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199515) Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=71104&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199515)
(USA)
Missing (http://who-me.com/GResMissing.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b) Randy M58 Looking for Father-In-Law
Last known locale: South Carolina USA
http://who-me.com/images/NoteIcon28x30T.gif (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=7319&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199531) Powell (http://who-me.com/FFullNote.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b&NoteID=7319&ses=N&pmYrs=5&Sx=75199531)
(Germany)
Friend (http://who-me.com/GResFriend.htf?Donut=w371VFQ2QGe4512026L7VSF4b) Thomas M~61 Last known locale: Darmstadt/Frankfurt, Darmstadt/Frankfurt Germany
Grad Year(H.S.): Frankfurt American High School
Locale/Vicinity: Darmstadt, Germany
Special Place: Living Room





ETA. That guy missing in GA caught my eye too!!!

carolwood
01-08-2010, 01:48 AM
Hi Ya'll!!!!!!! I haven't checked out Bk's case as often as I use to so this may be a repeat (sorry in advance) The other day I was actually searching for a missing persons's picture and as I googled they're name I got to this site.
http://who-me.com/default.htf I punched in the name Powell and there's some listed!!!

Shoot check your own name!!! I found some shockin info for myself lol :angel:Great find kaylenbabysims!
Here is what I came up with on the name Powell:

Clyde T. Powell(may be Clyde Thurman Powell), b. 9-1-1948
listed in Hesperia/Los Angeles/Victorville/Apple Valley/San Jose, CA
related to Rochelle Powell, 49 and Erica R. Powell, 60
(there is a relation to Clyde Thurman Powell, 53, but when I do the birthday, nothing comes up, so this could be a misprint)

David A. Powell, b. 4-9-1957
listed in Montgomery, Al; Denver, Co; Biloxi, Ms; Philadelphia, Pa; Lackland AFB, Tx
related to Juanita M. Powell, 40 /Wilbur David Powell, 84 /Emmett V. Powell, 49

Michael Lewis Powell, b. 1-31-1958
listed in Boynton Beach, Lake Worth, Lantana, and W. Palm Beach, FL
related to Linda Lee Roland, 69 /Lisa Kay Powell, 45 /Lisa J. Powell, 44

Randy A. Powell, b. 8-27-1951
listed in Summerville, Moncks Corner, Walterboro, and N. Augusta, SC
related to Keith B. Powell, 56 /Joseph S. Powell, 76(may have lived in TX) / Mary(no age)/ Joseph W. Powell, 52

Thomas Powell, b. 1949, last know locale: Darmstadt/Frankfurt, Germany
graduated from Frankfurt American High School

Wayne Powell
Last known Locale: Nottingham UK-England
(all from usa people search)

carolwood
01-08-2010, 01:59 AM
One more
Albert L. Powell, b. nov, 1954
listed in Hope, Ar; Elberton and Ellijay, Ga; Calhoun Falls, SC.
related to Morgan W. Powell, 28 / Meghan Powell, 26
associated names of Albert Powell, III and Lee Anne Powell
(usa people search)

Laughing
01-08-2010, 10:44 AM
Lurking around here for quite awhile, thinking about Mr. Kyle in the wake of Susan Powell's disappearance.

Good source, here, with possibilities! I love the irony of JQTurner & the KOA campground! Maybe there is a tie to Santee, SC as well?

Has anyone looked for Colorado restaurant suppliers that closed traumatically in the downturn of 1987???

IIRC, after the 2004/5 cataract surgery Mr. Kyle said "I've lost 20 years."

Also, did anyone visit the Newman Center -- the Catholic student organization -- of the university with Norlin Library?

Julessleuther
01-09-2010, 05:21 PM
I found a Floyd Powell who owns(ed) a restaurant supply in Denver:
http://www.alacrastore.com/storecontent/dnb2/102562782

Looking for a birthdate...

carolwood
01-09-2010, 07:51 PM
I found a Floyd Powell who owns(ed) a restaurant supply in Denver:
http://www.alacrastore.com/storecontent/dnb2/102562782

Looking for a birthdate...http://www.usa-people-search.com/Default.aspx?view=PE

9-21-1934

dreamweaver
01-09-2010, 08:53 PM
http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=FLOYD%20POWELL&state=CO&ref=&se=&doby=&city=&name_style=1&tm=&tmr=
1923

believe09
01-14-2010, 09:44 AM
Hi all-I just received this on Google Alert and thought it was interesting given the name and the references to west Texas:

Benjamin Kyle Meece, 23, of Odessa was arrested Friday by Midland County deputies at the Ector County Detention Center on two charges of violation of probation

Read more: http://mywesttexas.com/articles/2010/01/12/news/crime/saturday_january_9_2010.txt#ixzz0catOZPIW (http://mywesttexas.com/articles/2010/01/12/news/crime/saturday_january_9_2010.txt#ixzz0catOZPIW)

Cubby
01-15-2010, 06:28 PM
Did anyone find a pic of this BKM?

Cubby
01-15-2010, 06:30 PM
I don't recall posting this, I may have previously, if I did please forgive the duplicate post.

Has anyone thought about the possibility of Benjaman being a recipient of some kind of trust or estate of his parents that may have passed since he was found in 2004? If that were so, wouldn't someone have to be looking for him as an heir to an estate?
I've tried random searches on how to find someone who is an heir to an estate, but cant' be found and am not having much luck.

Any idea's?

carolwood
01-16-2010, 12:38 AM
Here is a Charles Edwin Powell from Texas. Now he favors BK, especially how I figure he looked at a younger age. Make sure to check out all the pics.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2774700800/nm0694052

carolwood
01-16-2010, 12:46 AM
Here is a legal notice for a Homer Powell

http://www.legalnotice.org/details.aspx?id=2610317

carolwood
01-16-2010, 01:24 AM
Here is a Dwane Powell, cartoonist:

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/powell/about.php

has a look of BK

carolwood
01-16-2010, 01:38 AM
Here is a Furney Powell, with ties to the Catholic Church:

http://mdjonline.com/pages/full_story_obit/push?article-POWELL-+Furney+&id=5043382-POWELL-+Furney&instance=top_center_featured

carolwood
01-16-2010, 02:00 AM
Estate of Powell:
Macon, GA

http://www.mainstreetnews.com/Arch/04/0505/LegalsBanks.html

Cubby
01-16-2010, 05:07 PM
Here is a Charles Edwin Powell from Texas. Now he favors BK, especially how I figure he looked at a younger age. Make sure to check out all the pics.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2774700800/nm0694052

I do think he somewhat favors BK. Especially the shape of face and eye color. If you can find an email for him carolwood, it really would not hurt to send him an email with BK's information and picture. While the noses are a bit off, my sisters and I all have different noses... so I would't rule out a possible relation based on the shape of the nose. JMO

Cubby
01-16-2010, 05:09 PM
Here is a legal notice for a Homer Powell

http://www.legalnotice.org/details.aspx?id=2610317


This is along the lines I was thinking in my previous post, but this is far too recent to be our BK. Any notices of forclosure, imo would have been the later part of 05 or early 06 based on his found date of Aug 04.

great find though! I wish I could find those, I never have any luck!

Cubby
01-16-2010, 05:11 PM
Here is a Dwane Powell, cartoonist:

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/powell/about.php

has a look of BK


wouldn't hurt to send this one an email too, especially if you can find an email carolwood.

who knows, some of these powells may also be intersted in taking the DNA test thingy.... though I would just mention it is available, as I personally could not ask someone to spend that kind of money. I just could not. (JMO)

nerosleuth
01-26-2010, 09:48 PM
Last night I was thunderstruck like a bolt out of the blue when this idea occured to me.

Is it possible that Benjaman Kyle could have been involved with casinos in Indiana?

My thinking is that casinos would have bars and restaurants on their casino property.

I found a link that has a listing of casinos in the state of Indiana.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_casinos_in_Indiana


From the listing of casinos in Indiana, it looks like that casinos are located in the southern part and the northwestern part of Indiana.

bluestarzz
01-26-2010, 10:58 PM
has anyone done a reconstruction of benjaman w/a lower hair line, different hair styles? i don't remember seeing one.
Same thought, an age back in years?
I wish high school annuals were onlline, in time they will be lol,or at least the "missing" for reunions.
bluestarzzz

Cubby
02-01-2010, 02:53 AM
Has this ever been researched? There is a Herbert Powell, address on Olcott in Hammond In, who has a substantially large amount of unclaimed funds on the Indiana state unclaimed funds site. In the area of $30,000.00 (yes 30 grand). The other name associated with the unclaimed funds is a J.E.R.

It's hard to tell (and too late to look tonight) if this JER is a deceased family member of Herbert, or could she be Herberts daughter in law and the spouse of a son of Herberts who should have gotten his estate? Maybe the 'missing sons' children are minor heirs to the above unclaimed funds thus it is in their mothers name?

It seems like way too much money to be just sitting out there and there are appx half a dozen various sources of the unclaimed funds. All not too far off the 2004 year that BK was found.

Hmmmmm.........

Julessleuther
02-01-2010, 03:21 AM
It appears that Herbert is/was approx. 95 yrs old from Hammond. but maybe moved to FL. Antoinette P. approx 94 is a family member. (wife?) I wonder when he went to FL? Maybe has a son who came to see him?

There is another Herbert in Indianapolis, who is approx 58, but does not appear to be the same person as above.

I do not know the connection with JER, but she also lives in Hammond and is approx 69. Perhaps a daughter who married into the R family? There is a J Powell who was born in 1941 in Indianapolis...Hmmm, not the same birth month as the JER I found, so not likely as daughter... Maybe an ex-wife?

Cubby
02-01-2010, 03:54 AM
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Gr4qAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HmgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6890,1487974&dq=herbert-powell+hammond&hl=en

Hope the link works.

Looks like Herbert may be the second husband of Antoinette. According to the above article she passed away in 82 two years after moving to Sarasota area. Her body was transported back to the East Chicago IN area for burial. A son Gregory is listed, and he has the same last name as Joan E. Antoinettes children do not have the Powell surname.


??? when Herbert passed, did he have children from an earlier marriage his estate went to rather than Antoinettes children? If they married when the kids were adults Antoinettes children would have no claim to monies she left to her husband.

I think this Herbert is the one showing a year of birth 1914 in the social security death index. Last residence lists Hammond IN, and veromi shows an address history of Hammond as most recent and Ellenton, FL as an older area. Ellenton is in the Bradenton/Sarasota area. Date of death is listed as April 17, 1992 birth is listed as August 11, 1914

ETA: It looks like she and Herbert were members of Holy Cross Catholic church. Not sure is the location is IN or FL.

still looking for children of Herbert.

carolwood
02-01-2010, 09:45 AM
There is a Herbert L. Powell (Ruby) who lived in Indy in the 1949 Indy Phone book, this could have been him and a first wife?

believe09
02-01-2010, 10:10 AM
o/t CW-did you see your birthday thread in the Jury Room?????

I hope your day was AWESOME.

carolwood
02-01-2010, 10:13 AM
Hictorical Newspapers-Hammond Times, 1957:
Gregory Rucinski, the son of Mr. and Mrs. Herbert Powll, 4027 Henry, Hammond; has been accepted as students at Culver-Stockton College, Canton, MO. Rucinski graduated from George Rogers Clark High School.

Hammond Times, 1958:
Moehringen, Germany:
Maj. Gen. Herbert Powell, commander of the US Army Infantry School at Fort Benning, GA.

Hammond Times, 1935:
Alumni Association of Washington High School, Herbert Powell, vice president.

carolwood
02-01-2010, 10:14 AM
o/t CW-did you see your birthday thread in the Jury Room?????

I hope your day was AWESOME.Thank you! I will have to go look.

Cubby
02-01-2010, 03:51 PM
I couldn't find a middle initial or anything else on the Herbert Powell from Hammond.

Hammond is closer to the Chicago area in the NW area of Indiana. I don't know if he was ever in Indianapolis.

I'd like to see who this is... Unless we can find any relatives of the Herbert from Hammond or trace him back, maybe we could try and make contact with Antoinettes children.

I'm stuck right now with being able to find any more information on the Herbert from Hammond, so if anyone can continue to help I appreciate it.

Cubby
02-01-2010, 08:26 PM
I passed along the information regarding this Herbert Powell to Colleen Fitzpatrick to research per her request. Hopefully she can find out if this HP with the unclaimed funds is related to Mr. Kyle in any way.

Julessleuther
02-02-2010, 12:29 AM
Is Colleen going to handle this, or do you still need WS help? Sorry, I was gone all day for my sons soccer tournament, so I could not respond earlier.

BK remembers attending the restaurant show in Denver---has anyone already tried contacting the Colorado Restaurant Assoc.? Maybe someone in membership could go through archives there and see if they can find anything...I can contact them...


Thinking "out loud here", I am trying to think of this logically (just call me Spock). If BK remembers attending U. of C. Boulder in the late 70's-early 80's, we have to assume one of three things: 1. Either he was getting his bachelors there, in which case he is younger than we think, or 2.He was attending graduate school, but then where did he get his undergrad? and what was he studying in grad school? or 3. He attended college later in life, and if so why? Lack of funds? Military? (I know, I know-- the fingerprint issue--but I am not 100% convinced--I think he WAS in the military.) If he was military, he could have attended on the G.I Bill, so there should be a record somewhere. Perhaps he never saw combat, but worked in intelligence, and that is why there are no fingerprint records?

That leads to the next set of questions: What did he study at UC Boulder? They only have a limited number of programs at the university. Did he actually go to school there or did he work in the library or food service?

Then there is the memory of reading Restaurants and Institutions. I have looked through the magazine, and no offense to anyone, but in my opinion, this is not a magazine for minimum wage burger flippers. This is a magazine for people in the boutique and upper scale restaurant business. Perhaps this was not always the case with this magazine, but what it appears to be now. So why did he read it? Was he a chef? Unlikely if he attended UC Boulder. CO State has a chef program, but I could not find one at UC B. Was he in the architecture program and designed restaurants? Maybe--UCB has an architecture program. An engineer? Perhaps.

We have so many clues in front of us, we just need to piece them together...

Cubby
02-02-2010, 01:04 AM
Colleen is going to research the Herbert Powell angle. She specifically asked for the info because she is interested in researching it. I'm going to leave that angle to her... thank you for asking! I understand delays with RL so no worries. Hope your sons soccer tourny was great! I had contacted her with a question non related to Mr. Kyles case, and we got off into the direction of BK. I hope no one thinks I passed along the info as a result of too few or slow replies here. I did so only because she requested it and was very interested. I would never get upset about slow replies, or people being busy with RL.

Good idea about the CRA. Someone contacted them, but I don't recall who. I think believe09 did a few years back IIRC.

Julessleuther
02-02-2010, 02:30 AM
Cubby--I was upset with myself because I saw your message while I was at the game, but my damn 3G would not work so I could not respond. I did not think you were upset or anything, I just frustrated with myself that I could not get to you. :blowkiss:


O/T (sort of) The following is just my opinion, after thinking and thinking and thinking about this whole thing: If I were to get amnesia tomorrow, who knows what little bits I would remember or where I would say I lived: I lived in three different states as a young child, was adopted at 5, and then lived with a new family in another three states. I have had two mothers, and two fathers, and three siblings from one family and two from the other. I went to college in one state and then lived in another six states either on my own or after I was married; some for short amounts (I lived in the Atlanta area for about 7 mths) and others for long periods. Growing up, I spend part of my summers at my grandparents in upstate NY and the other half on Long Island, NY. If a dialect evaluator had to pinpoint my accent, I guarantee they would have problems. I have lived on both coasts, and in northern and southern US. I have not lived in one place more than 10 yrs, so probably have a hodge podge of accents, in addition to the east and west coast accents of all my parents.

My point is that I am probably not that unusual, and that in a persons lifetime they have many different experiences. I personally know very few people who still live in the same area that they were raised. If BK worked in the hospitality or food industry, he may have moved a fair amount--you go where the jobs are; likewise if he were an engineer or architect. He may have been raised as a military brat and moved many times with his family.

I know we are looking at Powells in IN because of BK's memories. We learned with the Juan Doe case that an amnesia patients memories may be disjointed. BK very well may have memories of Indianapolis and the state fair etc, because he spent summers at his grandparents. Maybe he never lived in IN at all.

I know we are looking for a needle in a haystack, but I do not want us to limit ourselves to certain areas and people and exclude others because they do not fit in the "parameters". Obviously we are limited with eye color, height, etc, but we should not limit ourselves to age, birth date, etc. because we might just miss something.

Cubby
02-02-2010, 03:00 AM
Good points Jules and I agree with most. I also think though while people are far more transient than they once were, we need to take into consideration what the trends were for a man of Mr. Kyles approximate age and during what time frames. For example people growing up in the 50's and starting to build careers in the 60's and 70's didn't expect to have a similiar number of employers as someone growing up in the 80's or 90's, as well as possible career changes as they would today or within the last 10-15 years.

I happen to be one of the few(?) that is still in the general area I grew up. As are my parents and sisters. One left state for appx 6 years but did relocate back here. Actually there is still a large branch of my family in the immediate area (or within 50-75 miles or so) that immigrated to the US in between 1905-1910 and are still in that same 50-75 mile area. When I did our genealogy I found a 3rd cousin 15 min away so we met. Actually the above stands true for both my maternal and paternal roots... and I still run into my friends from grammer schools parents who still live in the same homes they lived in back in the 70's.

:blowkiss:

Just thought I would add some more thinking outloud.

Roselvr
02-02-2010, 10:00 AM
When I was in high school I attended vo-tech to cut hair (82-83) we used to go on a field trip to New York City; to the huge hair show. Since I was little in the 70's I have no clue if schools did this if he was in training for the restaurant business.

As far as what you said about people moving around; I still live in the same state but not the same part of the state. There is only one of us that has moved to a different state.

Someone just sent me a link to the Vietnam War casualties site. Not sure if it will be useful to anyone but wanted to post it.
Virtual Wall (http://www.virtualwall.org/iStates.htm)


BK remembers attending the restaurant show in Denver---has anyone already tried contacting the Colorado Restaurant Assoc.? Maybe someone in membership could go through archives there and see if they can find anything...I can contact them...


Thinking "out loud here", I am trying to think of this logically (just call me Spock). If BK remembers attending U. of C. Boulder in the late 70's-early 80's, we have to assume one of three things: 1. Either he was getting his bachelors there, in which case he is younger than we think, or 2.He was attending graduate school, but then where did he get his undergrad? and what was he studying in grad school? or 3. He attended college later in life, and if so why? Lack of funds? Military? (I know, I know-- the fingerprint issue--but I am not 100% convinced--I think he WAS in the military.) If he was military, he could have attended on the G.I Bill, so there should be a record somewhere. Perhaps he never saw combat, but worked in intelligence, and that is why there are no fingerprint records?

That leads to the next set of questions: What did he study at UC Boulder? They only have a limited number of programs at the university. Did he actually go to school there or did he work in the library or food service?

Then there is the memory of reading Restaurants and Institutions. I have looked through the magazine, and no offense to anyone, but in my opinion, this is not a magazine for minimum wage burger flippers. This is a magazine for people in the boutique and upper scale restaurant business. Perhaps this was not always the case with this magazine, but what it appears to be now. So why did he read it? Was he a chef? Unlikely if he attended UC Boulder. CO State has a chef program, but I could not find one at UC B. Was he in the architecture program and designed restaurants? Maybe--UCB has an architecture program. An engineer? Perhaps.

We have so many clues in front of us, we just need to piece them together...

believe09
02-02-2010, 10:06 AM
http://twitter.com/j2s/status/8485427248

This twitter from James Smith, the documentary film maker for Mr. K, indicates that Newsweek is publishing their article and will be carrying a clip of the documentary on their website....

carolwood
02-02-2010, 10:46 AM
Cubby--I was upset with myself because I saw your message while I was at the game, but my damn 3G would not work so I could not respond. I did not think you were upset or anything, I just frustrated with myself that I could not get to you. :blowkiss:


O/T (sort of) The following is just my opinion, after thinking and thinking and thinking about this whole thing: If I were to get amnesia tomorrow, who knows what little bits I would remember or where I would say I lived: I lived in three different states as a young child, was adopted at 5, and then lived with a new family in another three states. I have had two mothers, and two fathers, and three siblings from one family and two from the other. I went to college in PA and then lived in another six states either on my own or after I was married; some for short amounts (I lived in the Atlanta area for about 7 mths) and others for long periods. Growing up, I spend part of my summers at my grandparents in upstate NY and the other half on Long Island, NY. To this day, I still remember both areas like the back of my hand, even though I have not been to either in at least 15 yrs. As an adult I worked first in the plumbing/electrical industry and traveled to every state(except Alaska and Hawaii) in the country ALOT, and even had an office out of CA, so would travel between the east and west coast every six to eight weeks. I then worked in the travel industry and traveled worldwide. As an adult, I went back to the house in CA that I lived in before I was adopted, and although had not been there for 30 yrs, was successfully able to describe it and then find it. My natural family was some wierd hippie religion; when I was adopted, I was raised Catholic. If a dialect evaluator had to pinpoint my accent, I guarantee they would have problems. I have lived on both coasts, and in northern and southern US. I have not lived in one place more than 10 yrs, so probably have a hodge podge of accents, in addition to the east and west coast accents of all my parents.

My point is that I am probably not that unusual, and that in a persons lifetime they have many different experiences. I personally know very few people who still live in the same area that they were raised. If BK worked in the hospitality or food industry, he may have moved a fair amount--you go where the jobs are; likewise if he were an engineer or architect. He may have been raised as a military brat and moved many times with his family.

I know we are looking at Powells in IN because of BK's memories. We learned with the Juan Doe case that an amnesia patients memories may be disjointed. BK very well may have memories of Indianapolis and the state fair etc, because he spent summers at his grandparents. Maybe he never lived in IN at all.

I know we are looking for a needle in a haystack, but I do not want us to limit ourselves to certain areas and people and exclude others because they do not fit in the "parameters". Obviously we are limited with eye color, height, etc, but we should not limit ourselves to age, birth date, etc. because we might just miss something.This is exactly my point with the genealogy aspect. The family that is closest to Benjaman's dna settled in KY. and not many of the beginning families left. There were a few, and these are the ones I am working on first. Yes the ones that left, went to Indiana and Missouri, so far.

GRANNYL
02-02-2010, 03:41 PM
I have a question. I remember reading several years ago that Kyle had a scar from a total knee replacement. Is that true?? Thanks

believe09
02-02-2010, 05:04 PM
I have a question. I remember reading several years ago that Kyle had a scar from a total knee replacement. Is that true?? Thanks

That would be the first I have heard about it...are you talking about Mr. Kyle? Perhaps he can answer......

nerosleuth
02-02-2010, 07:27 PM
This is exactly my point with the genealogy aspect. The family that is closest to Benjaman's dna settled in KY. and not many of the beginning families left. There were a few, and these are the ones I am working on first. Yes the ones that left, went to Indiana and Missouri, so far.

After World War II, there were folks that left Kentucky during the late 1940's, the 1950's and the 1960's to look for jobs in the northern states north of the Ohio River. They went to states such as Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio because they had to go where the jobs were back then.

So if Benjaman's parents were from Kentucky, it is possible that his parents may have left Kentucky sometime between the late 1940's to late 1960's.

So going north of the Ohio River or even west of the Mississippi River to look for jobs back then wouldn't be out of the question.

Julessleuther
02-03-2010, 03:45 AM
True, and during the depression, alot of families moved west to work in migrant camps, particularly in CA.
After World War II, there were folks that left Kentucky during the late 1940's, the 1950's and the 1960's to look for jobs in the northern states north of the Ohio River. They went to states such as Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio because they had to go where the jobs were back then.

So if Benjaman's parents were from Kentucky, it is possible that his parents may have left Kentucky sometime between the late 1940's to late 1960's.

So going north of the Ohio River or even west of the Mississippi River to look for jobs back then wouldn't be out of the question.

Roselvr
02-03-2010, 12:54 PM
I have a question. I remember reading several years ago that Kyle had a scar from a total knee replacement. Is that true?? Thanks

Hopefully he can answer but I don't ever remember reading about knee replacement.

nerosleuth
02-07-2010, 02:50 AM
I was sitting up late tonight watching the Discovery Health channel on cable tv. There is a real life documentary show called Trauma: Life In The ER. It's about ER doctors and staff that treat real life trauma patients in the ER.

The episode I watched tonight was called Passing the Puck. This documentary took place at the Denver Health Medical Center at Denver, Colorado. The original air date of this show was October 10, 2000.

In this episode, two men are rushed to the hospital after they fell thirty feet off of an icy roof. One of the injured man was Ben Kidder. Kidder suffered broken ribs and bruised lung. The other injured man was Cliff Powell. He suffered a broken neck from the fall. Cliff's family were seen in this episode.

Here's the link to this episode of this documentary tv show:

http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/trauma/episode/season5/05_03.html

I'm guessing that this episode of the documentary tv show could have been filmed sometime during 1999 or 2000 if it first aired in October 2000.

I don't know if this could have been someone that Benjaman knew when he lived in the Denver area.

Cubby
02-07-2010, 02:57 AM
Where there any pictures of the two men who were injured as a result of the fall? Where they roofers? Doing work on a vent of some kind? Kind of hard to imagine why anyone would be on an icy roof in the winter other than to get snow off their roof.

You didn't get the impression either of these men might be BK, since he thinks his surgery was as a result of a fall ( off a loading dock ).

thanks!

nerosleuth
02-07-2010, 03:14 AM
Where there any pictures of the two men who were injured as a result of the fall? Where they roofers? Doing work on a vent of some kind? Kind of hard to imagine why anyone would be on an icy roof in the winter other than to get snow off their roof.

You didn't get the impression either of these men might be BK, since he thinks his surgery was as a result of a fall ( off a loading dock ).

thanks!

Cubby,

Yes, they did show the faces of the two men. From what I understand about the accident, they were standing on a roof looking at the skyline of Denver when the roof suddenly collasped on them. I'm guessing their weight and the weight of the ice and snow on the roof caused them to fall thirty feet. I don't think they were doing any kind of roof work when the accident happened.

The Discovery Health Channel is going to show this episode again on Sunday February 7, 2010 at 7:00 AM Eastern Time, 6:00 AM Central Time if you want to watch or tape that episode.

I didn't see anyone that looked like BK, but it did show the injured men faces and it did show the faces of their family. I don't know if Cliff Powell had any other surgery from that fall. He broke his neck from the fall and had a halo brace on his neck and head.

Cubby
02-07-2010, 06:55 PM
Holy Carp! There are some benefits to suffering from insomnia. I could not sleep last night and was up so late Tru TV was already airing infomercials so I tuned in MSNBC which airs the prison shows really late night. I about fell off the couch when I saw this gentleman Mike Dempsey who works with the Pendleton Juvenille facility. Low and behold it is in Indiana!

Take a look at his picture. He is the spitting image of Benjaman outside the nose.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.in.gov/idoc/dys/images/Superintendent_-_Photo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.in.gov/idoc/dys/2336.htm&usg=__VIHW_eGe4VQfaKcAmKZxi4BpqB8=&h=180&w=135&sz=47&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=mYyjfKleRXDX3M:&tbnh=101&tbnw=76&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmike%2Bdempsey%2Bpendleton%2Bjuvenile %26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2ADRA_enUS353%26sa%3DN%26um%3 D1

http://www.in.gov/idoc/dys/images/Superintendent_-_Photo.jpg

ETA: anyone want to look into this? I am going to be swamped with a few projects at least until midweek and don't know when I will have time to further delve into this guy and the pendleton area of IN. (If that is the name of the town, I'm not that familiar with Indiana).

ETAA: I was so tired watching this last night, I couldn't get myself up to come look this up online. I had to focus to ensure I remembered his name today.

Cubby
02-07-2010, 07:16 PM
Well, I just looked at a map and Pendleton, IN is pretty close to Indianapolis. Just a little north east of Indianapolis.

nerosleuth
02-07-2010, 09:38 PM
I found a web site about the Indiana DYS Pendleton facility. Construction of the facility began in 1998 and it opened in July 2000.


http://www.in.gov/idoc/dys/2346.htm


I also found the leadership chart of the Indiana DYS. I also found Mike Dempsey who still works for the Indiana DYS.


http://www.in.gov/idoc/files/New_Leadership_2009.pdf


Cubby, looks like we both sat up very late last night and came across some very interesting cable tv shows.

nerosleuth
02-07-2010, 10:05 PM
I'm not all that familiar with that area of Indiana. But I did find a community profile of Pendleton,Indiana from Wikipedia.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton,_Indiana

According to the community profile from Wikipedia, Pendleton has three prison facilities in that community.

Pendleton is located just east of I-69 and south of Anderson,Indiana.

Thought: Could BK have been involved with a company that installed restaurant equipments for correctional facilities and institutions?

annemc2
02-07-2010, 10:41 PM
Jeez, Cubby - I thought that *was* Benjamin!

Holy cow! Looks like him for sure. Great find!

Cubby
02-08-2010, 12:25 AM
Thanks guys.... This guy could be from anywhere and working at Pendleton... I wish ya'll could have seen my expression when I saw this guy on TV. I'm sure it was priceless. I kept wondering if I was seeing things because I was so tired or what.

If you compare the smiles they are identical. Everything imo, is the same except nose and this Mike looks younger than Mr. Kyle.

But man, they could be brothers, cousins....

Cubby
02-08-2010, 01:27 AM
I'm going to try and find an email for MD and send him Mr. Kyles information. He'll either recognize and know of him or not, and it could just be another one of many who resemble BK but have been dead end leads thus far. Will try and make contact this week and post when I get a reply. Considering MD works in a LE capacity, I think he would be kind enough to reply to an email and inquiry as to whether he recognizes BK.

Cubby
02-08-2010, 12:18 PM
Email sent to MD at Pendleton Juvenille Facility and awaiting a reply. Hopefully it won't be too long of a wait. Keep your fingers crossed!

nerosleuth
02-08-2010, 08:00 PM
On a lark, I did a white page telephone directory lookup at the Anywho web site for the Powell surname.

I find that there are 30 folks listed with the Powell surname living in Anderson, IN and 5 folks with the Powell surname living in Pendleton,IN.

Cubby
02-08-2010, 08:43 PM
I did a little more looking around at MD. Prior to working at the juvenille facility in Pendleton he was with a juvenille correctional facility in Topeka, KS. This may or may not mean anything. We know based on the Y-DNA test BK may have some ties to the Kansas area.... however, I have no idea if MB has any relation whatsoever to the Powell surname, perhaps a mother who is the daughter of a Powell. I didn't hear anything back today. I'm hoping this week. He's about 40, so definately too young to be a brother or cousin of BK's. Perhaps a nephew or ??? if anything.

The wait is frustrating! (I need some more patience God, haven't I demonstrated enough with the Cubs? do I really need more?, lol)

TheGodfather
02-08-2010, 11:08 PM
He's about 40, so definately too young to be a brother or cousin of BK's. Perhaps a nephew or ??? if anything.
I definitely would NOT rule out brother or cousin.The fact is that we do not know the exact age of BK or MD. Benjamin thinks his birth date would make him 60, but that is not a guarantee... he could be 55 or even a bit younger. Judging from the photo, MD looks to be between 35 and 45... although he could be older depending on when the photo was taken. This definitely puts him close enough to BK's age to be his brother.

As far as cousins, age means nothing. I am over 20 years older than some of my first cousins. It can vary depending on age gap between siblings and when in life a person had children... my mother had me when she was 22, but her younger brothers didn't have children until they were over 35.

Actually, I wouldn't even rule out that MD could be BK's son. It is quite feasible that there is more than a 20 year age gap between them.

They do look very much alike... in fact, when I first saw the photo I thought it was BK.

TheGodfather
02-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Another photo of MD I found through Google Images:

http://www.in.gov/gov/govimages/may2008/050808_MichaelDempsey.jpg

I am shocked at how much they look alike... the eyes are absolutely dead on. The only difference is the nose. I will actually be surprised if these two men turn out to be of no relation whatsoever.

Cubby
02-09-2010, 12:32 AM
Thank you TheGodfather. So true about the differences in ages between siblings and cousins. My sons paternal grandmother is actually one year older than my grandmother. I agree about the eyes, they caught my attention too. I don't think we have run across anyone who has the same eyes. Plenty with similiar noses, but none that I can recall with the same eyes.

I'm sure he is busy, but I do hope he takes the time to reply to my email.

ETA: I asked my 7 year old if he thought they were from the same family. I told him they were not the same person, but do you think they look like they are from the same family. His reply, I think they look like 'brovers, twins, no brovers, definately brovers". :)

Cubby
02-09-2010, 02:08 AM
Interesting news article on MD.

A job becomes a passionate career
June, 2008 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6399/is_3_70/) | by Glenda Beal (http://findarticles.com/p/search/?qa=Glenda Beal)

When he took a job in 1985 as a correctional officer at the Missouri State Penitentiary, 21-year-old Michael Dempsey did not expect it to lead to a satisfying career. At the time, it was just a job, a necessary part of his resolve to get his life together after troubled teen years and no high school diploma--a job suggested by his father, a Missouri prison lieutenant who had retired from law enforcement.


Throughout his career, Dempsey's passion to make a difference in the lives of youths has been rooted in that beginning. "It's an important part of my life. It changed me".

more at link.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6399/is_3_70/ai_n29447217/

The Missouri State Penitentiary has since been renamed Jefferson City Correctional Center in Jefferson City Missouri. According to the map Jefferson City is about half way between Kansas City and St. Louis. Still within a relatively close distance to Coffeyville (sp?) KS and Northern OK as indicated for the closest y-dna line per BK's wiki page.

justthinkin
02-09-2010, 06:09 AM
Gosh Cubby, they do look alike, more so in that first picture. See, insomnia is good for something! LOL. As it turns out, looks are about all we have to go on anyway in the search for Ben's identity. One thing's for sure, Benjamin looks like some of his relatives, and some of his relatives look like him whoever and wherever they are!

kyresearcher
02-09-2010, 04:05 PM
I showed the pictures of Ben to my husband and told him I wanted him to look at another pic of 2 men and wanted him to tell me who they were. It was the pic of the 2 men by the flag and he said immediately that is Ben, refering to MD. I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw the pic. of MD, they have so many similarities, I agree the nose looks different but the eyes and smile are almost identical.

TheGodfather
02-09-2010, 05:20 PM
Here's a photo comparison I just made... BK on left, MD on right:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7444&stc=1&d=1265750308

annemc2
02-09-2010, 06:21 PM
They both have the same...how would you call it...hair pattern, too!