View Full Version : Woman admits to having 15 abortions in 17 years
NewMommy09
10-15-2009, 11:39 AM
If this needs to be moved to "Up to the Minute" I understand, as there has not necessarily been a crime committed. However, I feel that this SHOULD constitute a huge crime. In my opinion, whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, does not matter, to purposely get pregnant 15 times (and abort each time) simply to anger your husband who does not want children, should definitely be crime. This woman should not only have her reproductive organs removed, but her pleasure centers as well. I hope nobody buys her book, because she doesn't deserve to make a dime off the horrible things she did. I can understand addiction. But this is freaking ridiculous and I can not conceive how this woman can blame her actions on addiction. :furious::banghead:
:angel: My prayers are going out to all those tiny little angels who were purposely conceived and aborted out of selfish anger by a soul-less person.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/health/health/2682798/Woman-has-15-abortions-in-17-years.html
julie2
10-15-2009, 11:54 AM
I am at a loss for words. This is horrible!!!!!
NewMommy09
10-15-2009, 12:02 PM
I am at a loss for words. This is horrible!!!!!
I hear you julie. My son is almost 6 months old, and the absolute joy he brings to my life is more joy than I ever could have hoped existed. He's my sunshine and my everything. I read this story and just cried my eyes out. And this woman seems to have NO SHAME or sympathy for what she's done.
She wasn't a teenager that made a mistake. She wasn't raped. She PURPOSELY didn't take her birth control so she could get pregnant and abort. I hope her reproductive organs are completely screwed up. I see her as no better than a serial killer.
TheMeaningOfItAll
10-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Am I missing something here? She was 15 when she went to college and a year later married a 50 year old professor??? And the logic says to me that this "prodigy" was giving her husband exactly what he wanted if she was pregnant and had the abortions. He didn't want children, after all. So, how was that rebellion? She purposefully didn't take her b.c. pills to rebel, but when she got pregnant, she had an abortion...so he got what he wanted anyway. This story is disgusting, horrible, vile, sad. No matter where one stands on the issue of abortion, I have a hard time believing anyone would support her behavior.
sniperacer
10-15-2009, 01:11 PM
Am I missing something here? She was 15 when she went to college and a year later married a 50 year old professor??? And the logic says to me that this "prodigy" was giving her husband exactly what he wanted if she was pregnant and had the abortions. He didn't want children, after all. So, how was that rebellion? She purposefully didn't take her b.c. pills to rebel, but when she got pregnant, she had an abortion...so he got what he wanted anyway. This story is disgusting, horrible, vile, sad. No matter where one stands on the issue of abortion, I have a hard time believing anyone would support her behavior.
A couple of issues. One, the age difference - a 16 year old marrying a 50 year old professor. Humm..
Second, it is her, and only her, decision and right to take, or not take the pill, and to abort or not abort pregnancies.
Of course there are huge ramifications too the husband based upon her decisions. And she used this to torment her husband - not exactly "what he wanted".
Lastly, the article / news is from Britain. Yet it seems the marrage, residence and abortions happened in the US. I'm guessing the book is being marketed in Britain where it will be a big seller, as opposed to the US which would find her behavior _________ <you get to fill in the blank>.
Morag
10-15-2009, 01:19 PM
And, if not a hoax, this woman is mentally ill.
There is something about this story that just doesn't seem right. For some reason I'm not trusting that she is telling the truth about the number of abortions that she has had...I don't know why.
JMHO.
believe09
10-15-2009, 01:27 PM
I agree with those calling shenanigans. It was her right to choose-the toll this would take on her body and brain would be pretty impressive-abortions leave scar tissue...it would be apparent that she was abusing herself in this way.
It doesnt really make much sense to me in any case...
sniperacer
10-15-2009, 01:29 PM
There is something about this story that just doesn't seem right. For some reason I'm not trusting that she is telling the truth about the number of abortions that she has had...I don't know why.
JMHO.
LOL, this is usually my first thought about these types of stories. For some reason I did not think this. Thanks for reminding me. :crazy:
If you're right, that would make a whole book based upon a lie.
CyberLaw
10-15-2009, 01:30 PM
This women is this story is true, is in my opinion disturbed.
You know the "Daddy" complex...a 15 year old having a relationship with a 50 year old man tells me that they both have significant issues.
She needs significant counseling and years of it.
Thank Goodness if this story is true, she is not a Mom, as I feel that she is just too messed up. She aborted to "get back" at her husband.
I am sure he cared, considering that "she was doing" exactly what he wanted and not have a child in the marriage.
sniperacer
10-15-2009, 01:35 PM
I'll admit men are not the smartest creatures on earth when it comes to getting "lucky", but you would think the husband (a professor) would have thought about birth control himself.
Again, if any of this is true.
As they say, men have a penis and brain, but only have enough blood to operate one at a time.
southcitymom
10-15-2009, 01:41 PM
This topic should definitely not be in Crimes in the News. Perhaps a Mod will move it.
southcitymom
10-15-2009, 01:44 PM
And, if not a hoax, this woman is mentally ill.
There is mental illness here either way.
sniperacer
10-15-2009, 02:25 PM
This women is this story is true, is in my opinion disturbed.
Thank Goodness if this story is true, she is not a Mom, as I feel that she is just too messed up. She aborted to "get back" at her husband.
True or not, she IS a mom.
From the article:
""Irene, who lives in Denver, works as a literary agent and now has two daughters - Loretta, five, and Lolita, three.""
erynne936
10-15-2009, 02:32 PM
not a crime and should not be in this forum. abortion is legal. no limit on how many.
having said that, this woman is mentally ill. she should get counseling, not a book deal.
ckwood32
10-15-2009, 02:38 PM
This SHOULD be a crime! How sick. Her poor children will now know they could have had 15 other brothers and sisters. How sad - she is definitely mentally ill.
chemcopout
10-15-2009, 03:18 PM
it sounds like she was just using abortion as a means to get revenge on her husband. she should have just left him. she is sending the wrong message, she should have used birth control instead of using "abortions" as a birth control means. disgraceful!
CyberLaw
10-15-2009, 03:29 PM
No kidding, what crime. Abortion is legal in this woman's country.
It is not a crime, there fore why again, is it in the Crime in the News......
I guess NewMommy09 is expressing her views on a legal medical procedures, which again has no legal basis in the courts for criminal charges.
This really does take away from real crimes against living children, you know the crimes, of murder, rape, abuse, neglect. Those are crimes against children and belong in the crime in the news thread.
These are the living breathing, human children, already born and victims of actual crimes.
This thread seems to equate what this women did with the suffering of children murdered and abused in life after being born. The real suffering of living children is a crime........not abortion.
southcitymom
10-15-2009, 03:41 PM
I am glad it has been moved. Though I ABSOLUTELY understand the feelings of some that her choices are criminal, according to England's justice system they are not.
DollyPardonMe
10-15-2009, 05:24 PM
No kidding, what crime. Abortion is legal in this woman's country.
It is not a crime, there fore why again, is it in the Crime in the News......
I guess NewMommy09 is expressing her views on a legal medical procedures, which again has no legal basis in the courts for criminal charges.
This really does take away from real crimes against living children, you know the crimes, of murder, rape, abuse, neglect. Those are crimes against children and belong in the crime in the news thread.
These are the living breathing, human children, already born and victims of actual crimes.
This thread seems to equate what this women did with the suffering of children murdered and abused in life after being born. The real suffering of living children is a crime........not abortion.
What about unborn babies that have a heartbeat?
butwhatif?
10-15-2009, 06:14 PM
Kinda seems like a case of munchausen syndrome to me.Having unneccesary medical procedures since she could have prevented it by taking the pill, or using the billings method, or any other contraception.
She's obviously an intellectually smart woman- but has zero emotional intelligence.
I'm pro-choice. But its obviously unhealthy physically and emotionally to have this many procedures.
The bit I don't understand is why she has 3 children. If she was truely 'addicted' to the cycle of abortion then why did she carry these three to term?
Her choices are hers, and hers alone. I dont think its fair to the kids that she does have to tell the whole world about it, because they will be the ones that suffer the taunting and teasing in the playground.
JMO
snvoigt
10-15-2009, 06:43 PM
What about unborn babies that have a heartbeat?
I think when you get in on the topic of abortion to me it seems IT IS either "white" or "black". I am pro-choice.
MY body, MY choice. MY decision, NOT yours.
I personally do not believe life starts at conception, even with a heartbeat. But that is my choice, and my belief. It is not wrong, and not illegal.
I have two wonderful, beautiful children whom we (my husband and me) chose to make and have. But if a woman has 2 or 200 abortions, not our choice, and not our bodies. It is legal, not a crime.
I am more concerned and worried about the poor children who are born into abuse, and poverty. The ones being sexually and physically abused, those are the heartbeats we need to be worried about.
NewMommy09
10-15-2009, 06:58 PM
No kidding, what crime. Abortion is legal in this woman's country.
It is not a crime, there fore why again, is it in the Crime in the News......
I guess NewMommy09 is expressing her views on a legal medical procedures, which again has no legal basis in the courts for criminal charges.
This really does take away from real crimes against living children, you know the crimes, of murder, rape, abuse, neglect. Those are crimes against children and belong in the crime in the news thread.
These are the living breathing, human children, already born and victims of actual crimes.
This thread seems to equate what this women did with the suffering of children murdered and abused in life after being born. The real suffering of living children is a crime........not abortion.
If you actually READ my post, you see that I specifically said that a crime has not been comitted and that I understand if the post needs to be moved. Also, while I DID say that I PERSONALLY believe that this should be considered criminal, I DID NOT "express my views on medical procedures". Nor did anyone in this thread equate these abortions to abuse and suffering of LIVING children.
Reguardless, if you do not feel that this woman throwing away 15 little lives before they ever had a chance to live, simply to ANGER her husband warrants attention or sympathy for the lives lost, then there are many other threads here at WS which will fulfill that for you. I would appreciate it for you to spend your time there rather than trying to cause an argument. This thread is NOT about me. Thank you.
Soulmagent
10-15-2009, 10:53 PM
My step daughters mom did the same thing, would have an abortion and blame whoever she was with. Now she had 6 kids and left them all. Two she put of for adoption because she didnt think her new boyfriend would want her if she had kids She was 28 at the time. They were 2 and 3 years old. Then she would have an abortion and blame him,she wouldnt even consider birth control. Scary to think there are more woman like this. Away the last abortion I knew of was the 9th. I dont think she stopped. She only see's 1 of her children.
txsvicki
10-15-2009, 10:56 PM
What makes this woman think that people are interested in the stupidity of their lives. Is her elderly husband the father of her two girls? I don't understand why the old guy didn't just get a vasectomy if he didn't want kids, and was so irritated at the yearly abortions. IMO those two are seriously weird and messed up. Let's hope the two daughters aren't having to go through all sorts of weird head games and brawls with those two.
Fairy1
10-15-2009, 11:12 PM
I think when you get in on the topic of abortion to me it seems IT IS either "white" or "black". I am pro-choice.
MY body, MY choice. MY decision, NOT yours.
I personally do not believe life starts at conception, even with a heartbeat. But that is my choice, and my belief. It is not wrong, and not illegal.
I have two wonderful, beautiful children whom we (my husband and me) chose to make and have. But if a woman has 2 or 200 abortions, not our choice, and not our bodies. It is legal, not a crime.
I am more concerned and worried about the poor children who are born into abuse, and poverty. The ones being sexually and physically abused, those are the heartbeats we need to be worried about.
ITA - and I am pro-choice also. Still, I take issue with a woman who would choose abortion as a primary form of birth control or use it as a form of punishment against a husband who clearly stated he did not want children.
This woman was a prodigy? Sounds like she was seriously lacking in common sense and ethics. IMO
akashana
10-16-2009, 03:41 AM
Kinda seems like a case of munchausen syndrome to me.Having unneccesary medical procedures since she could have prevented it by taking the pill, or using the billings method, or any other contraception.
She's obviously an intellectually smart woman- but has zero emotional intelligence.
I'm pro-choice. But its obviously unhealthy physically and emotionally to have this many procedures.
The bit I don't understand is why she has 3 children. If she was truely 'addicted' to the cycle of abortion then why did she carry these three to term?
Her choices are hers, and hers alone. I dont think its fair to the kids that she does have to tell the whole world about it, because they will be the ones that suffer the taunting and teasing in the playground.
JMO
MY BOLD
I, too, thought of Munchausen's. There is definitely some pathology going on here. And writing a book about it? How can she wish to expose such a sordid and irresponsible part of her past to the world? Use some discretion, for goodness sake!
Gozgals
10-16-2009, 06:06 AM
This truly is a woman with mental illness and a husband suffering too. Why would she want to share this information with the world? Why would anyone by this book?
I really have nothing to add but just questions. I do believe it is true though. I don't buy it is an addiction though. Birth control or counseling should have been sought by these two people.
Munchausen's crossed my mind too.
Gozgals
gaia227
10-16-2009, 10:19 AM
It is irresponsible, selfish women like this are the poster-children for the pro-life movement. I am staunchly pro-choice but have major issues with people who use abortion as some sick form of birth control. I used to volunteer at Planned Parenthood and I was endlessly surprised at how many women would come in wanting their 3rd or 4th abortion and some of these girls were in their teens or early 20's. Hello! Take freaking birth control! It is not a question of money as various organizations will give you birth control or sell it for a radically reduced price. I used to get mine for $5.00 a pack.
After volunteering there my feelings did not change as most of the women who came in were there for the 1st and probably last abortion and took the decision very seriously. I don't think anyone is an advocate of abortion but instead are advocates for choice.
That said- I do not support late-term abortions unless it is for a medical reason. If you can't decide before the 1st trimester is up to abort the baby then too bad - give it up for adoption then.
This woman we are speaking of seems to have some serious issues beyond just being completely irresponsible.
January.
10-16-2009, 10:31 AM
I'm speechless. Disgusting. Just disgusting...
sniperacer
10-16-2009, 10:56 AM
I think when you get in on the topic of abortion to me it seems IT IS either "white" or "black". I am pro-choice.
MY body, MY choice. MY decision, NOT yours.
<snip>
I have two wonderful, beautiful children whom we (my husband and me) chose to make and have
Sorry, it is not a "we" decision. Your husband has/had no choice at all.
You were right when you said "MY body, MY choice. MY decision, NOT yours." "NOT yours" includes your husband.
Just the sad fact.
NewMommy09
10-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I never even thought about Munchausen's. It could be a form of that.
Although don't most people with Munchausen's really believe that they or their child or whoever is sick all the time? I don't know a lot about the disease.
It just seems that this woman was fully aware of what she was doing, not to say she doesn't have mental problems.
I fully agree that if the husband felt victimized he could have/should have used protection or taken care of things himself.
akashana
10-16-2009, 05:58 PM
I never even thought about Munchausen's. It could be a form of that.
Although don't most people with Munchausen's really believe that they or their child or whoever is sick all the time? I don't know a lot about the disease.
It just seems that this woman was fully aware of what she was doing, not to say she doesn't have mental problems.
I fully agree that if the husband felt victimized he could have/should have used protection or taken care of things himself.
What I have learned about Munchausen's is that they use the fabricated illness or injury, and it is fabricated - they can be quite cunning - to obtain gratification via attention they receive from hospital personnel or family members who worry and fuss over them when they are sick. That's what made it occur to me, actually. The husband not wanting children, avoiding intimacy to avoid a "surprise," and she seeking to get his attention ("How do you like me now?" or "Look what you did to me!") any which way she can, while giving him a not-so-subtle jab at the same time. To some, negative attention is better than none.
JBean
10-16-2009, 08:45 PM
well since I am pro-life I don't understand why this upsets pro choice people at all.
Not trying to be controversial ot troublesome. i just don't see what the problem is if you are in favor of abortion in the first place what's the difference or the problem?
Pandora
10-16-2009, 09:13 PM
While I'm pro-choice, I believe women should be limited to 1-2 elective abortions simply so it does NOT become a method of BC. I have managed to reach the age of 38 w/ NO pregnancies, so it IS possible.
akashana
10-17-2009, 01:40 AM
well since I am pro-life I don't understand why this upsets pro choice people at all.
Not trying to be controversial ot troublesome. i just don't see what the problem is if you are in favor of abortion in the first place what's the difference or the problem?
I certainly don't feel like women should have serial abortions, but I can't see imposing a set number either. That sounds unenforceable and arbitrary at best. I think the government needs to stay out of women's wombs. That said, I am no proponent of late-term (partial birth or otherwise) abortions except to save the mother's life. As one poster already said, they have an entire 90 days to get a plan together and make their choice. But I am a staunch supporter of a woman's right to choose.
hoppyfrog
10-17-2009, 09:04 AM
i just don't see what the problem is if you are in favor of abortion in the first place what's the difference or the problem?
Being pro-choice does NOT mean "in favor of abortion." Those are two entirely different things.
Hoppy
chemcopout
10-17-2009, 10:36 AM
the woman is just as bad as octomom wanting to get negative attention and their 15 minutes of fame. however 17x abortion mom is on the opposite side of have a ton of kids octomom. both disgusting, imo!
JBean
10-17-2009, 11:04 AM
Being pro-choice does NOT mean "in favor of abortion." Those are two entirely different things.
Hoppy
True enough hoppy and I will rephrase. i guess what I mean is those that find choosing abortion is acceptable, what is the difference if it is one or 15? I am asking this sincerely because i truly do not understand.
Pandora
10-17-2009, 11:42 AM
True enough hoppy and I will rephrase. i guess what I mean is those that find choosing abortion is acceptable, what is the difference if it is one or 15? I am asking this sincerely because i truly do not understand.
Maybe this will help. . . .I also oppose multiple elective cosmetic procedures unless there is a serious disfiguring situation. In-patient/out-patient: they are surgical procedures w/ risks. Also, abortion is not meant to be a form of BC--that was never the point of Roe v. Wade.
OrdinaryLife
10-17-2009, 12:09 PM
I will never judge a woman who has had an abortion. Her reasons are all that matter. That said, abortion is *not*, nor was it ever meant to be, a form of birth control. The procedure is a medical procedure. It's not like having a tooth removed. The damage of chronic procedures done is devastating to the uterus never mind the financial costs.
Why this person decided to put it all out there like a brag is beyond my comprehension. Why any MD would, after a record like hers, proceed with procedure after procedure absolutely blows my mind. There's a motive for this crap. One sick woman as far as I'm concerned. :loser:
JBean
10-17-2009, 12:50 PM
Maybe this will help. . . .I also oppose multiple elective cosmetic procedures unless there is a serious disfiguring situation. In-patient/out-patient: they are surgical procedures w/ risks. Also, abortion is not meant to be a form of BC--that was never the point of Roe v. Wade.
Since you are leading with this example, I am gathering that it is mainly the fact that it is multiple surgical procedures that is objectionable?
Along with that we should be able to choose a limited number of abortions per person ,but beyond that we are choosing to use it as birth control? What would be an acceptable limit in your opinion?
I am not trying to open a debate, I am truly trying to understand why 1 is ok but 15 is not. 15 women each having one abortion represent 15 abortions. So why are those 15 ok but not 15 for one woman; because of the multiple surgeries? I am gathering it is the surgical aspect and not necessarily the abortion part of it? But shouldn;t she have the ability to choose how many surgeries she should have?
Since i do not support abortion I cannot understand the logic and am always looking to expand my horizons. My questions are honest and sincere and I am afraid they will not be taken that way so I am trying to express my desire to understand.
thanks.
sniperacer
10-17-2009, 01:02 PM
Since you are leading with this example, I am gathering that it is mainly the fact that it is multiple surgical procedures that is objectionable?
Along with that we should be able to choose a limited number of abortions per person ,but beyond that we are choosing to use it as birth control? What would be an acceptable limit in your opinion?
I am not trying to open a debate, I am truly trying to understand why 1 is ok but 15 is not. 15 women each having one abortion represent 15 abortions. So why are those 15 ok but not 15 for one woman; because of the multiple surgeries? I am gathering it is the surgical aspect and not necessarily the abortion part of it? But shouldn;t she have the ability to choose how many surgeries she should have?
Since i do not support abortion I cannot understand the logic and am always looking to expand my horizons. My questions are honest and sincere and I am afraid they will not be taken that way so I am trying to express my desire to understand.
thanks.
Hey Bean, let me ask you this. If there a difference, in your opinion, between a murderer (i.e. 1) and a serial murderer (i.e. n>1)?
And for the rest of you folks, please do NOT think I am equating abortion with murder. So nip it.
JBean
10-17-2009, 01:11 PM
Hey Bean, let me ask you this. If there a difference, in your opinion, between a murderer (i.e. 1) and a serial murderer (i.e. n>1)?
And for the rest of you folks, please do NOT think I am equating abortion with murder. So nip it.
Sure.
But murder is illegal and abortion is not, so I am not touching your example with a ten foot pole!Oh you are asking for trouble with that analogy.
:blowkiss:
JBean
10-17-2009, 01:14 PM
I certainly don't feel like women should have serial abortions, but I can't see imposing a set number either. That sounds unenforceable and arbitrary at best. I think the government needs to stay out of women's wombs. That said, I am no proponent of late-term (partial birth or otherwise) abortions except to save the mother's life. As one poster already said, they have an entire 90 days to get a plan together and make their choice. But I am a staunch supporter of a woman's right to choose.
While we do not necessarily sit on the same side of the fence I respect that your pov is consistent across the board; that while you don't personally like serial abortions, it is our choice to make at this time.
sniperacer
10-17-2009, 01:43 PM
Oh you are asking for trouble with that analogy.
:blowkiss:
Yeah I realized that after I typed the word "murder". But I love the abortion vs. murder debate. Why you ask? Simple, us guys are COMPLETELY innocent when it comes to abortion / murder!
Altough it's called "pro-choice", men have no choice at all.
Lastly, if anyone thinks they can "read" my abortion rights belief from the above, you'd be wrong.
Last question Bean, Dodgers or Angles?
Thanks Bean love ya.
JBean
10-17-2009, 01:52 PM
Yeah I realized that after I typed the word "murder". But I love the abortion vs. murder debate. Why you ask? Simple, us guys are COMPLETELY innocent when it comes to abortion / murder!
Altough it's called "pro-choice", men have no choice at all.
Lastly, if anyone thinks they can "read" my abortion rights belief from the above, you'd be wrong.
Last question Bean, Dodgers or Angles?
Thanks Bean love ya.
Very intersting point. I know a man that is still in agony over his SO's choice to have an abortion. I'll have to read again and see if there is any reference to the man(men?) in this situation.
ETA: in thinking about my own question, one answer could be that just because a person is pro-abortion it does not imply it is a decision to be taken lightly ;most likely with deep thought and introspection. Therefore, multiple abortions could imply a cavalier attitude about abortions and the seriousness of them and would not truly represent the thought process behind being pro-abortion.
Angels.
Pandora
10-17-2009, 02:41 PM
Since you are leading with this example, I am gathering that it is mainly the fact that it is multiple surgical procedures that is objectionable?
Along with that we should be able to choose a limited number of abortions per person ,but beyond that we are choosing to use it as birth control? What would be an acceptable limit in your opinion?
I am not trying to open a debate, I am truly trying to understand why 1 is ok but 15 is not. 15 women each having one abortion represent 15 abortions. So why are those 15 ok but not 15 for one woman; because of the multiple surgeries? I am gathering it is the surgical aspect and not necessarily the abortion part of it? But shouldn;t she have the ability to choose how many surgeries she should have?
Since i do not support abortion I cannot understand the logic and am always looking to expand my horizons. My questions are honest and sincere and I am afraid they will not be taken that way so I am trying to express my desire to understand.
thanks.
I think part of the reason that I have a difficult time explaining my opinion on this to anyone is because I am pro-choice, but MY choice is life--so I have conflicting emotions. :) Multiple elective surgeries drive me crazy! So, yes, that is my main objection to multiple abortions. I think they should be limited. Are they? No. Will they ever be? Only by insurance companies. To open another can of worms--I'm also pro-death penalty! I'm just a conundrum wrapped up in an enigma floating on a sea of confusion!
butwhatif?
10-17-2009, 10:06 PM
well since I am pro-life I don't understand why this upsets pro choice people at all.
Not trying to be controversial ot troublesome. i just don't see what the problem is if you are in favor of abortion in the first place what's the difference or the problem?
It's all in the word... pro- CHOICE.
She has the legal right to choose to have as many abortions as she wants.
But she also had the CHOICE to use contraception and didn't.
She CHOSE to be with a man who did not ever want children.
She CHOSE to get pregnant 15 times just so that she could have more abortions.
I would see it differently had she have used precautions and was so super-fertile that the contraception failed.
But she was deliberately getting pregnant just so that she could have abortions. :banghead:
And I just can't wrap my head or heart around that.
I don't agree that she was using abortion as a method of BC. She was using it as some sick power play with her hubby, and in an effort to get attention.
She needed psychiatric help- not more doctors aiding her power games with hubby. And her 'abortion addiction' should have been picked up in the councelling sessions I thought were legally required prior to a termination.
I guess that makes me semi-pro choice and 100% pro mental health support.
OrdinaryLife
10-17-2009, 10:40 PM
It's all in the word... pro- CHOICE.
She has the legal right to choose to have as many abortions as she wants.
But she also had the CHOICE to use contraception and didn't.
She CHOSE to be with a man who did not ever want children.
She CHOSE to get pregnant 15 times just so that she could have more abortions.
I would see it differently had she have used precautions and was so super-fertile that the contraception failed.
But she was deliberately getting pregnant just so that she could have abortions. :banghead:
And I just can't wrap my head or heart around that.
I don't agree that she was using abortion as a method of BC. She was using it as some sick power play with her hubby, and in an effort to get attention.
She needed psychiatric help- not more doctors aiding her power games with hubby. And her 'abortion addiction' should have been picked up in the councelling sessions I thought were legally required prior to a termination.
I guess that makes me semi-pro choice and 100% pro mental health support.
Okay, I buy this fair argument and truly cannot disagree much. Especially the 100% mental health thing in this particular case.
snvoigt
10-18-2009, 02:33 AM
Sorry, it is not a "we" decision. Your husband has/had no choice at all.
You were right when you said "MY body, MY choice. MY decision, NOT yours." "NOT yours" includes your husband.
Just the sad fact.
When I said WE made the decesion, WE really both made the decision. It was not a "whoops, I am pregnant".
After 5 years of marriage, we decided we were ready for a family. Both of my children were planned.
If he would have not been ready at that time, I can promise you it would NOT have happend. In some cases, the man does not get a say in the pregnancy, but in ours it was a decision reached by both of us right down to what their names were.
southcitymom
10-18-2009, 07:53 PM
well since I am pro-life I don't understand why this upsets pro choice people at all.
Not trying to be controversial ot troublesome. i just don't see what the problem is if you are in favor of abortion in the first place what's the difference or the problem?
I am a pro-choicer who is not upset by this, so I can't speak personally to your question (which is a good one).
I will say that I think a great many pro-choicers (just like pro-lifers who are okay with abortion in the case of rape or incest) have some limits as to what they consider acceptable when it comes to abortion.
Most pro-choicers are not in favor of abortions. I'm certainly not in favor of abortions. I am in favor of abortions being legal and of the decision to have one resting with the person who is pregnant. Like my pro-lifer brothers and sisters, I would like to see us work together to create a world where all babies are wanted and abortion is not an option. Our energies and dollars would be much better spent if we teamed up together under THAT umbrella.
not_my_kids
10-19-2009, 03:59 AM
I can't believe I missed this thread.
I call bull. I want to see medical documentation. My mother has had 4 abortions, possibly 5 (she's purposefully vague) and she has no problem with that. Her doctor, however, does, and she is past childbearing age now, but she was told that if she ever intended to have another procedure like that, she would require actual surgery and hospitalization. This is after 5. I don't see how this womans body could handle the procedure that many times.
BTW: Personally, I am pro-life for myself, and pro-choice for everyone else. I respect all decisions on the topic, mine has just been made in advance.
RainbowsAndGumdrops
10-19-2009, 08:35 AM
You guys all missed the point of the article. In the first sentence it states that she was "trapped in a cycle of 'abortion addiction".
She was the victim here. I think we're supposed to feel sorry for her.
(sarcasm intended).
sniperacer
10-19-2009, 03:49 PM
When I said WE made the decesion, WE really both made the decision. It was not a "whoops, I am pregnant".
After 5 years of marriage, we decided we were ready for a family. Both of my children were planned.
If he would have not been ready at that time, I can promise you it would NOT have happend. In some cases, the man does not get a say in the pregnancy, but in ours it was a decision reached by both of us right down to what their names were.
What? I thought we were discussing ABORTION, not pregnancy? That's great both you and your hubby choose to make a baby.
But you're wrong, in all cases (with the exception of male rape), us "men do get a say" in getting someone pregnant.
I'm sure your hubby is smart enough to know he really doesn't have a choice with abortions.
Hopeful One
10-19-2009, 04:06 PM
IF true - this is just sick. Sick and wrong.
ziggy
10-19-2009, 06:27 PM
While I'm pro-choice, I believe women should be limited to 1-2 elective abortions simply so it does NOT become a method of BC. I have managed to reach the age of 38 w/ NO pregnancies, so it IS possible.
I've managed to make it to 48 without any unwanted pregnancies and zero abortions (wouldn't have been able to do that).
My question is what difference does it make how many a woman has if you are OK with abortion per se?
What does the number matter? Just curious. Seems it's OK with one or two but then becomes a moral dilema?
I think this woman obviously has a problem. I also don't think it's unheard of for women to have more than a few - perhaps they keep it a secret because it just seems...trying to choose the word - wrong?
angelmom
10-19-2009, 06:55 PM
What? I thought we were discussing ABORTION, not pregnancy? That's great both you and your hubby choose to make a baby.
But you're wrong, in all cases (with the exception of male rape), us "men do get a say" in getting someone pregnant.
I'm sure your hubby is smart enough to know he really doesn't have a choice with abortions.
OT, but I don't understand this. Why are men responsible for every time they have sex, whether the contraception fails or was never used or he was lied to that it was when it wasn't...but women can't be held responsible for the same act until about 7 months along?
This has always baffled me. To me, it seems very condescending to women, as if we have no control over ourselves and shouldn't have to have consequences for our behavior...like we aren't smart enough or strong enough.
Unless a woman was raped, underage, or mentally impaired, I think the responsibility should be equal. If you are pro-life, then no one can force you to abort, not even the man. But if you are pro-choice, then why doesn't the man get any say about his child?
This is the flip side of a man being lied to about contraception and wanting the woman to abort but she doesn't want to, and he is still on the hook for child support. I don't get why men are held to a higher standard of responsibility than women.
This has always bugged me.
Fairy1
10-21-2009, 11:56 PM
I really don't believe this particular story has anything to do with whether abortion is - or should be - legal or not. I can really only speak for myself but I doubt very much that most pro-choice proponents would ethically support 15 abortions by one woman!
The majority of women I know, personally, have had at least one abortion. The reasons range from being much too young to parent responsibly or not knowing who the father was to being in a bad marriage. They were singular choices and, IMO, good choices at the time.
Anyone on WS sees, almost daily, the tragic consequences that come from unwanted children being born. I would rather not see any baby suffer - ever.
And, we cannot overlook the cases where women decide to have unplanned babies only to be killed by the baby-daddies so they aren't forced into paying child support. Or the many children whose fathers are NOT contributing financially to their well-being because they weren't wanted by their FATHERS.
The decision to have a child - or not - is the mother's and it is not always the right decision for everyone involved - no matter what the decision is...
IMO, this woman was/is a bit phsyco. She is fortunate that she was able to have healthy children after all those abortions. Whether her children are fortunate to have her as a mother remains to be seen...
Blue_Dolphin308
10-22-2009, 11:12 AM
Its in the Sun, which is highly speculative to be similiar to the Examiner in the states. A tabloid paper so to speak.
Danaya
10-22-2009, 04:34 PM
Wow, I can't believe the mental and emotional pain this women must have buried deep inside of her. I had an abortion and carried so much pain around, I went to a support group three years later and met women who in their forties and fifties, still had pain and cried talking about that child they lost. This poor women is in need of professional and spiritual help. Let's not point fingers and judge, instead just pray and hope she gets the help she needs. We all make mistakes in our lives, nobody is perfect and everybody deserves love. She doesn't have to answer to any of us.
MomofBoys
10-22-2009, 05:27 PM
This should be a crime. Seriously. I know these are just "fetuses" and embryos, but someone with this lack of respect for life needs to be in jail or involuntary, inpatient therapy.
I know I should be a good Christian and avoid judging her, but I can't. This is a woman who conceived babies ask an act of pigheadedness and then aborted them because she was either weak or sadistic. Her own words seem to point to both. Now, she's trying to profit from writing a book about it.
I have no respect for her and I have no pity for her. I do feel sadness for the 15 (or more) lives that will never be. I feel scorn for the doctors who, at one point or another, had to be aware of the uterine scarring and damage that comes with routine abortion.
It makes me nauseated and I hope no one buys her book. Or if they do, she uses the money for a complete hysterectomy so that she can't conceive again. Science is remarkable these days.
I also have to say, with no offense to anyone here, that I abhor the "my body, my choice" argument/cliche. Sorry, unless you were raped, it stopped being only about you the second your actions led to the conception of a child. You had sex and the BC failed? That's a chance you took. No one can make you have the baby, but making it about you is inaccurate, IMO.
A baby can feel pain at 15 weeks gestation. It can suck its thumb at 10-12 weeks. All its organs are formed at the end of the first trimester. I'm 19 weeks pregnant, and people have abortions at 19 weeks all the time. I just had my 20 week ultrasound and with the exception of him not having his fat on yet, LOL, he looked like any precious newborn. 3D ultrasounds are something. To me, to look at that and then say "Well, it's my body. It's my choice" might as well be as cold-hearted as any murder. Yet someone out there is getting an abortion at that point and beyond right now. It makes me nauseated.
And one more thing. There ARE pro-abortion people out there. Most are not, of course, but take a spin on iVillage's abortion support board sometime. There are women out there who try to convince others to have abortions. Whether it's to make themselves feel better about their choices, I don't know. What I do know is that I couldn't fathom someone would be pro-abortion until I read some of these women and the "Yeah, I don't think you can manage another baby...I didn't feel a thing...people say you're sad afterward, but I just felt relief..." It's very psychological, and very sad to see these confused women get talked into the most final of choices by women who advocate the procedure.
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