15 year-old suffers vicious gang rape during Homecoming dance

[mom_of_five]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7084114

[STEADFAST]

That's just horrible. It lasted 2 1/2 hours and no one came to her aid. In fact, passersby joined in. :furious: I sure hope they can catch everyone involved.

[WholeLottaRosie]

This makes me sick to my stomach.

[WhyaDuck?]

"Police say some people walked by and actually participated in this crime."

I cannot imagine the horror of crying out for help, only to have the passersby join in.

What is the world coming to???

[mitzi]

Absolutely disgusting! What is wrong with the human race? :sick:

[mysteriew]

Onlookers laugh during teen girl's gang rape

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13644237?source=most_viewed

I wonder if this one will end up on Utube?

[Gray]

She was in critical condition. This is just disgusting. I hope they find video (as terrible as it is) so they can prosecute every pervert who took part in this. This world just disgusts me sometimes.

[SunnieRN]

My God! I can't believe how despicable some human beings can be. I can't even imagine the pain and heartache this girl and her family will have to suffer through.

[believe09]

"There's just so much control that one can do after that, once they leave the sidewalk we can't follow them home," says District Spokesman Marin Trujillo.
Police officers and school administrators were at the dance and even though they checked the campus when the dance ended at 11 p.m., district officials say they may not have searched the area where the attack was occurring."

Excuse me-lets review. POLICE OFFICERS and school administrators were present. At the Dance. The rape took place ON THE SCHOOL PROPERTY. But they missed it. Until 2.5 hours had passed. And this child was stomped into the ground.

Lawsuit.

They might as well turn over the keys to the kingdom to this child and this family right now.

What kind of assembly do you think will adequately cover this subject???

[mae]

This is heinous. What is wrong with people? This makes me so sick. That girl was attacked, beaten, violated and shamed by an entire group of cowardly, worthless people. She had to be helicoptered out it was that bad.

...as many as a dozen spectators and between four and seven actual rapists in this case.

"I would say we're looking at four to seven active participants of sexual assault and extremely violent felonies. We're also suspecting there were up to a dozen people who witnessed what had happened and their involvement is unknown," says Richmond Police spokesperson Lt. Mark Gagan.

How horrific. That is a lot of people to be complicit in such a violent, 2.5 hour act that only ended when authorities showed up. I cannot believe that people watched and recorded video.

[angelmom]

I have to agree with one of the commenters on the article. She said she was leaving at 9:30 to get a ride from her dad. Did dad know that? If so, why wasn't he frantically looking for her for the next 2.5 hours? Calling LE?

Or did she lie about why she was leaving to meet with the boy they think she knows? Maybe sneaking away from the dance to meet up with a boy her parents wouldn't approve of? Why does the school let them out w/out confirming with a parent?

Either way, it is horrific. Especially since, by all accounts, it is not a safe place at night. How can we teach our kids that they are not invincible and to please be careful???!!! It breaks my heart that she may have thought she was having a romantic meeting with a boy she liked and ended up so tragically wounded and violated. I wonder if he pretended to like her and lured her from the dance?

It is astonishing how sick and evil people can be. I cannot believe there wasn't a single person who had the morals and balls to call LE!:furious:

The school does have some responsibility here. They could do what our school does and lock the doors. The kids are not allowed to leave until the doors open 1/2 hour before it is over. Once I watch my son go in, I know he won't be leaving until 10:30, when I will be in the parking lot waiting for him.

Obviously the perps are to blame, but we have to take better care of our kids and realize they are not adults yet and still make some bad decisions!

[not_my_kids]

Reminds me of a woman here.
She was raped and left on the bank of the river. She asked for help from a group of guys that came along and all three of them raped her too.
It's an absolutely sickening and terrifying pack mentality. I really do fear that this will become more common.
Not that that makes it any better, but try to hang onto the shock, because we will get desensitized to this, too.

[mom_of_five]

I think what bothers me most (other than the obvious horror this young lady endured) is that it appears all of her attackers were younger than 18 (aside from the 19 year-old that was apprehended running from the scene). As horrible as our world is right now, it's terrifying to see what our youth are becoming and how scary our future looks.

This attack went on SO long that news of it reached an off-campus house party -- where someone was finally appalled enough to contact police. AND police believe several of the bystanders and/or attackers recorded the attack on their cell phones!

[Velouria]

I think what bothers me most (other than the obvious horror this young lady endured) is that it appears all of her attackers were younger than 18 (aside from the 19 year-old that was apprehended running from the scene). As horrible as our world is right now, it's terrifying to see what our youth are becoming and how scary our future looks.

This attack went on SO long that news of it reached an off-campus house party -- where someone was finally appalled enough to contact police. AND police believe several of the bystanders and/or attackers recorded the attack on their cell phones!

Agree with your entire post, mom_of_five. And I'd like to see some laws passed that would penalize these onlookers for recording these attacks and not immediately notifying and turning over these videos to law enforcement.

[jnTexas]

I think what bothers me most (other than the obvious horror this young lady endured) is that it appears all of her attackers were younger than 18 (aside from the 19 year-old that was apprehended running from the scene). As horrible as our world is right now, it's terrifying to see what our youth are becoming and how scary our future looks.

This attack went on SO long that news of it reached an off-campus house party -- where someone was finally appalled enough to contact police. AND police believe several of the bystanders and/or attackers recorded the attack on their cell phones!

This is just horrible to hear. I do hope they recover the cell phone videos. that will be a child porn charge for everyone of the POS that thought nothing of videoing the rape of this innocent child.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>


RICHMOND, Calif. -- Two young men are in custody in the alleged beating and gang rape of a 15-year-old girl at a school homecoming dance in Richmond, California.

Police believe as many as three other men attacked the girl over a two-hour period Saturday night outside Richmond High School. Investigators say up to a dozen people watched the incident without reporting it.


more here


http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-richmond-gang-rape,0,1913458.story

[swanniee11]

I am looking for the arrest info on the 19yr old named Manuel Ortega, can anyone help?

[Columbo]

I have to agree with one of the commenters on the article. She said she was leaving at 9:30 to get a ride from her dad. Did dad know that? If so, why wasn't he frantically looking for her for the next 2.5 hours? Calling LE?

Or did she lie about why she was leaving to meet with the boy they think she knows? Maybe sneaking away from the dance to meet up with a boy her parents wouldn't approve of? Why does the school let them out w/out confirming with a parent?

Either way, it is horrific. Especially since, by all accounts, it is not a safe place at night. How can we teach our kids that they are not invincible and to please be careful???!!! It breaks my heart that she may have thought she was having a romantic meeting with a boy she liked and ended up so tragically wounded and violated. I wonder if he pretended to like her and lured her from the dance?

It is astonishing how sick and evil people can be. I cannot believe there wasn't a single person who had the morals and balls to call LE!:furious:

The school does have some responsibility here. They could do what our school does and lock the doors. The kids are not allowed to leave until the doors open 1/2 hour before it is over. Once I watch my son go in, I know he won't be leaving until 10:30, when I will be in the parking lot waiting for him.

Obviously the perps are to blame, but we have to take better care of our kids and realize they are not adults yet and still make some bad decisions!

Bolded by me.
These were my thoughts, too--please understand I'm NOT blaming the victim. I think changing the story may be an effort by LE to protect the victim.

The first reports were that she was meeting a guy she knew so they could be alone...but they have changed the story to "her father was picking her up". I think maybe she was lured there by a guy she thought was a friend.

It never should have happened...she's 15 years old, and kids are gonna do some dumb things. I do enough dumb things and I'm old! Where is the parental supervision? Do these parents even care? 23rd St. in Richmond at 9:30 at night is NOT a safe place.

It's a good thing the police got there when they did, or I fear the outcome would have been much more tragic.

[JBean]

I have to agree with one of the commenters on the article. She said she was leaving at 9:30 to get a ride from her dad. Did dad know that? If so, why wasn't he frantically looking for her for the next 2.5 hours? Calling LE?

Or did she lie about why she was leaving to meet with the boy they think she knows? Maybe sneaking away from the dance to meet up with a boy her parents wouldn't approve of? Why does the school let them out w/out confirming with a parent?

Either way, it is horrific. Especially since, by all accounts, it is not a safe place at night. How can we teach our kids that they are not invincible and to please be careful???!!! It breaks my heart that she may have thought she was having a romantic meeting with a boy she liked and ended up so tragically wounded and violated. I wonder if he pretended to like her and lured her from the dance?

It is astonishing how sick and evil people can be. I cannot believe there wasn't a single person who had the morals and balls to call LE!:furious:

The school does have some responsibility here. They could do what our school does and lock the doors. The kids are not allowed to leave until the doors open 1/2 hour before it is over. Once I watch my son go in, I know he won't be leaving until 10:30, when I will be in the parking lot waiting for him.

Obviously the perps are to blame, but we have to take better care of our kids and realize they are not adults yet and still make some bad decisions!
My understanding is that the dad was looking for her all that time.

[JBean]

I am looking for the arrest info on the 19yr old named Manuel Ortega, can anyone help?
800K bond

Manuel Ortega, a 19-year-old former student, was arrested after trying to flee the scene. He is being held on $800,000 bail for investigation of rape and robbery. A 15-year-old student also was booked late Monday on one count of sexual assault, Gagan said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h00xc9pigMisvuJ08uARa2FR8gQgD9BJNPT01

[JBean]

Bolded by me.
These were my thoughts, too--please understand I'm NOT blaming the victim. I think changing the story may be an effort by LE to protect the victim.

The first reports were that she was meeting a guy she knew so they could be alone...but they have changed the story to "her father was picking her up". I think maybe she was lured there by a guy she thought was a friend.

It never should have happened...she's 15 years old, and kids are gonna do some dumb things. I do enough dumb things and I'm old! Where is the parental supervision? Do these parents even care? 23rd St. in Richmond at 9:30 at night is NOT a safe place.

It's a good thing the police got there when they did, or I fear the outcome would have been much more tragic.
Our local news has consistently reported that she was going to get a ride from her father and then ran into some guy that was behind a cyclone fence and asked her to join them "party" in a courtyard. they gave her a lot of alcohol and she became incapacitated. The father was trying to call her and find her but was not able to locate her.

[Wudge]

Our local news has consistently reported that she was going to get a ride from her father and then ran into some guy that was behind a cyclone fence and asked her to join them "party" in a courtyard. they gave her a lot of alcohol and she became incapacitated. The father was trying to call her and find her but was not able to locate her.

This is the type of case that I wish would be closely tracked by a crime oriented website. However, I suspect updates will not be easy to obtain.

[JBean]

This is the type of case that I wish would be closely tracked by a crime oriented website. However, I suspect updates will not be easy to obtain.
I agree. I am going to try and follow this one because it is just jaw dropping to me.

[Brwnigirl]

I also feel the school bears responsibility. This is known to be a high crime area and a school that has had previously problems. It just is not good enough that the police/administration/parents were not patrolling the grounds the entire time of the dance.

My kid didn't go to school in an area with any problems and our school would not hold dances unless enough parents had signed up to volunteer during the evening. That included supervising locked doors while the dance was on and only one exit, designated pick up spots, designated outdoor supervision spots and and patrolling the parking lot and grounds on a continous basis.
Maybe that's why nothing ever happened.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

October 28, 2009 | 7:39 am

Outrage grew in a Bay Area town over the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl as police made more arrests overnight.

National attention has been focused in Richmond over what police described as a gang rape of a 15-year-old student who struggled with attackers -- some of whom took photos and laughed -- as more than a dozen witnesses passed by and did nothing. Police said last night that as many as 20 people saw the attack, and some might have shot video on their cellphones.

"We are outraged that this happened," Richmond Mayor Gayle McLaughlin told reporters Tuesday.

Overnight, Richmond police served search warrants at the homes of several suspects and arrested three people, bringing the total number of suspects in custody to five.




more here

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/outrage-over-gang-rape-of-15yearold-girl-witnesses-by-as-many-as-20-people.html

[Columbo]

Agree with your entire post, mom_of_five. And I'd like to see some laws passed that would penalize these onlookers for recording these attacks and not immediately notifying and turning over these videos to law enforcement.

And publish their names, and put pictures of them out there !!

There isn't a kid alive who doesn't have a cell phone--someone could have called for help...

[Columbo]

Our local news has consistently reported that she was going to get a ride from her father and then ran into some guy that was behind a cyclone fence and asked her to join them "party" in a courtyard. they gave her a lot of alcohol and she became incapacitated. The father was trying to call her and find her but was not able to locate her.

Can you provide a link that says her father was trying to locate her? I hope it's true.

[Columbo]

This is just horrible to hear. I do hope they recover the cell phone videos. that will be a child porn charge for everyone of the POS that thought nothing of videoing the rape of this innocent child.

It stuns me that they all have cell phones but instead of calling for help and being HUMANE, they (allegedly) take pictures of a horrendous crime! WTF!!

[Columbo]

Our local news has consistently reported that she was going to get a ride from her father and then ran into some guy that was behind a cyclone fence and asked her to join them "party" in a courtyard. they gave her a lot of alcohol and she became incapacitated. The father was trying to call her and find her but was not able to locate her.

I heard two versions of how/why she left the dance: the first was that she left the dance with a guy she thought was a friend so they could be alone--possibly he was actually luring her to this secluded spot and she didn't know other boys were there drinking; the second was that her father was picking her up and she left to meet him.

JBean, your version sounds more likely.

I wonder if her dad called the police when he couldn't find her?

[Columbo]

I just saw the 21 year old on tv. Ugh. There's no video available yet that I could find, just the article below:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_13657301

[believe09]

I wish we could all contribute to the award-I hope that locals with kids this age are having some very very serious conversations with their children and that they are being marched to LE if they know anything....

[WhyaDuck?]

I wish we could all contribute to the award-I hope that locals with kids this age are having some very very serious conversations with their children and that they are being marched to LE if they know anything....

BBM

ITA.

Sadly, though, I somehow doubt that they are/will; people don't really seem to have the same sense of civic responsibility any more, and I would bet a lot of parents just don't want their kids to be involved, even if they weren't there and only heard things (or saw the pics/vids) later.

[ziggy]

5 now in custody. Here's a pic of Ortega:

read more at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/28/BA621ABOF6.DTL&tsp=1



http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/27/ba-richmond28_PH_0500770601.jpg

[magnaccia]

For anyone who hasn't attended a high school dance in the last decade, supervision really doesn't seem to be a top priority. I've seen less extreme situations at a strip club than I did at a few school dances. Sadly, it doesn't surprise me in the least that school officials weren't privy to what was happening.

But it's beyond pathetic it took THAT long for one measly student to witness it, walk for a minute in the opposite direction and call 911

[travelgal]

This horrible gang rape brings to mind the case in the early 80's of a young woman raped on a pool table in a New Bedford bar. A bar full of men and women and not one came to her rescue. During the trial, the victim was accused of asking for trouble since she was wearing a red dress. Here is a link to read more
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,952343-2,00.html

I believe there was a movie made also - perhaps on Lifetime. Anyway, it is very sad that our society has not progressed in 25 yrs.

The attack in Richmond makes me sick and disgusted!!

I just heard a board member on HNL saying "this was inappropriate behavior." Excuse me!! This was in-humane behavior!!

[Texas Mist]

This horrible gang rape brings to mind the case in the early 80's of a young woman raped on a pool table in a New Bedford bar. A bar full of men and women and not one came to her rescue. During the trial, the victim was accused of asking for trouble since she was wearing a red dress. Here is a link to read more
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,952343-2,00.html

I believe there was a movie made also - perhaps on Lifetime. Anyway, it is very sad that our society has not progressed in 25 yrs.

The attack in Richmond makes me sick and disgusted!!

I just heard a board member on HNL saying "this was inappropriate behavior." Excuse me!! This was in-humane behavior!!

Jodie Foster was in a movie called The Accused - story very similar to the New Bedford attack.

Speaking of 'inappropriate behavior', it seems the judicial system is perfectly capable of it as well:

<snip>

GAITHERSBURG, Md. - A father is condemning the Montgomery County Schools and the judicial system on Wednesday after the teens who raped his 15-year-old daughter got probation and were allowed to return to school.


http://www.news8.net/news/stories/1009/673111.html?ref=n8


How horrible for the Gaithersburg girl & her family!!

[Columbo]

This horrible gang rape brings to mind the case in the early 80's of a young woman raped on a pool table in a New Bedford bar. A bar full of men and women and not one came to her rescue. During the trial, the victim was accused of asking for trouble since she was wearing a red dress. Here is a link to read more
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,952343-2,00.html

I believe there was a movie made also - perhaps on Lifetime. Anyway, it is very sad that our society has not progressed in 25 yrs.

The attack in Richmond makes me sick and disgusted!!

I just heard a board member on HNL saying "this was inappropriate behavior." Excuse me!! This was in-humane behavior!!

bolded by me.

Inappropriate behavior? good grief. How can someone make such a gross understatement?

BTW--There was a movie made about that incident in New Bedford--Jodie Foster was in it. It's called "The Accused". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094608/

Sorry TexasMist!! We may have been posting this at the same time!!!

[Wudge]

5 now in custody. Here's a pic of Ortega:

read more at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/28/BA621ABOF6.DTL&tsp=1



http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/27/ba-richmond28_PH_0500770601.jpg


"Detective Ken Greco said some of the suspects have shown no remorse during police interviews. He called the incident "disgusting" and "a sad state of affairs."

"This is the worst thing I've heard of," said Greco, who has been in law enforcement for 29 years. "It just shocked the conscience of responding officers."

The girl knew at least one of the assailants, the 15-year-old boy, investigators said."


(From the link you posted.)

[Luna_Myst]

I am so 'disgusted' by this whole thing I don't even have the words to express it with out some *&)*& :sick:<< needed!! It is my understanding those that watched, witnessed, walked by and didn't make a call or tell an authority figure can not and will not have charges brought against them. This too makes me angry :furious: beyond words. I can not imagine the pain and suffering she has endured, I pray for this young girl and her family.

I would like to know what the HE** the adults/security were doing at this dance! In 1988 I was in Junior high school in olympia washington state, I attended a dance. The students were told once in there was no out till it was over or your parents came in to get you. A few students myself included desided to test this, we snuck out. It did not take but minutes and they 'teachers, parent, chaparones, etc' were searching in force for us some just gave in to being found and some tried to hide (me << bad choice I know) they didn't give up till they had every single one of us in hand! The punishment was a weeks worth of lunches in the principals office and after school we had an hours worth of yard work for a week. In addition to all of that we were banned from attending any more dances until High School.

As for parents of the students that seen it, heard about it, etc and did nothing. If I got word from My child or evidence they knew, or heard about it while it was happening and did nothing, if I found imagies on their phone of this crime. I would drag their little A**'s down to the police department to hand over anything and everything they knew including their phones if used for the purpose of documenting this crime. If it were determined my child had in anyway participated, done something illeagle I would make sure they stood in line for their just punishment!!! This is outragouse, disgusting and just plain intolerable. I did not nor am I raising my child to be like this, hence my 101% conviction as a parent this is what I would do!! My hope and wish is that all parents would do the same!! (I know this is a pipe dream, way to many parents today cover for their children. I love my children too and I would hate to have to do this but for their sake as well as mine and society's I would do what I believe needed to be done.)

I am done ranting...

[Dr.Fessel]

I see no reason the press can not post pictures of the spectators since they were not doing anything criminal and are not being charged. It would just be like posting a picture of the stands at a football game.

[Wudge]

I am so 'disgusted' by this whole thing I don't even have the words to express it with out some *&)*& :sick:<< needed!! It is my understanding those that watched, witnessed, walked by and didn't make a call or tell an authority figure can not and will not have charges brought against them. This too makes me angry :furious: beyond words. I can not imagine the pain and suffering she has endured, I pray for this young girl and her family.

I would like to know what the HE** the adults/security were doing at this dance! In 1988 I was in Junior high school in olympia washington state, I attended a dance. The students were told once in there was no out till it was over or your parents came in to get you. A few students myself included desided to test this, we snuck out. It did not take but minutes and they 'teachers, parent, chaparones, etc' were searching in force for us some just gave in to being found and some tried to hide (me << bad choice I know) they didn't give up till they had every single one of us in hand! The punishment was a weeks worth of lunches in the principals office and after school we had an hours worth of yard work for a week. In addition to all of that we were banned from attending any more dances until High School.

As for parents of the students that seen it, heard about it, etc and did nothing. If I got word from My child or evidence they knew, or heard about it while it was happening and did nothing, if I found imagies on their phone of this crime. I would drag their little A**'s down to the police department to hand over anything and everything they knew including their phones if used for the purpose of documenting this crime. If it were determined my child had in anyway participated, done something illeagle I would make sure they stood in line for their just punishment!!! This is outragouse, disgusting and just plain intolerable. I did not nor am I raising my child to be like this, hence my 101% conviction as a parent this is what I would do!! My hope and wish is that all parents would do the same!! (I know this is a pipe dream, way to many parents today cover for their children. I love my children too and I would hate to have to do this but for their sake as well as mine and society's I would do what I believe needed to be done.)

I am done ranting...


If you are bothered by parents protecting their sons after a rape has taken place, read: "Our Guys", by Bernard Lefkowitz -- High School jocks who lived in the toney suburb of Glen Ridge N.J. raped a mentally retarded teenager. After you start to read the book, I doubt you will put it down.

[JBean]

This horrible gang rape brings to mind the case in the early 80's of a young woman raped on a pool table in a New Bedford bar. A bar full of men and women and not one came to her rescue. During the trial, the victim was accused of asking for trouble since she was wearing a red dress. Here is a link to read more
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,952343-2,00.html

I believe there was a movie made also - perhaps on Lifetime. Anyway, it is very sad that our society has not progressed in 25 yrs.

The attack in Richmond makes me sick and disgusted!!

I just heard a board member on HNL saying "this was inappropriate behavior." Excuse me!! This was in-humane behavior!!Oh I just watched that movie if it was with Jodie Foster. I thought of this story right away when I heard this.

[lilacwine]

As a high school teacher I can tell you we ALWAYS tell our kids we can't protect you when we don't know where you are. With that being said, we still station people at doors etc. and do our best.... and I'm happy to say we do more than Richmond did, but I really believe they are probably kicking themselves harder than anyone else could. I don't know how'd I'd function had I been a chaperone at an event that this happened during.

What is sad though is the number of parents who WON'T come in to get a kid or sometimes tell the kids to walk home LATE at night....we are in a city in an area that I do not consider very safe at night.

It's heartbreaking and it makes me want to vomit that it happened.

[txsvicki]

I saw the interview with the administrator and felt that he manned up and took quite a bit of responsibility for failure to watch the outside of the school and the hidden area where the gang rape took place. However, at the end he said that we "probably" could have done better. If this school and this town is such a dangerous place, then schools should know better. They are not too smart and not willing to go to take proper measures. Maybe they should do away with dances if they are not able to make sure there are no horrible crimes, drugging, and drinking going on. I really wish Bush could have gotten the voucher system in place where parents could put their kids into private church schools if they want. Schools are becoming so trashy that it's unbelieveable.

[redmeli]

5 now in custody. Here's a pic of Ortega:

read more at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/28/BA621ABOF6.DTL&tsp=1



http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/27/ba-richmond28_PH_0500770601.jpg

Look at the dead eyes. No one home here. I'm thinking he was NAGANG or aspiring to be. We need to find a way to get these b*^ta#$ds off the streets at an early enough age to protect society from them. Other countries separate kids according to their academic progress, or lack of, and put the rest in the military or some kind of "rehabilitative" program. I'm afraid we will need to consider that in this country. So much for freedom. Those who don't appreciate it don't deserve it. :banghead:

[Columbo]

Look at the dead eyes. No one home here. I'm thinking he was NAGANG or aspiring to be. We need to find a way to get these b*^ta#$ds off the streets at an early enough age to protect society from them. Other countries separate kids according to their academic progress, or lack of, and put the rest in the military or some kind of "rehabilitative" program. I'm afraid we will need to consider that in this country. So much for freedom. Those who don't appreciate it don't deserve it. :banghead:

I agree his eyes look dead, he looks like a punk.

But I don't think putting people like him in the military will solve anything--imagine a whole group like him over in Iraq (or wherever). They would be drugged up, raping and killing innocents over there . I don't know what can be done with evil slime like him and the others who did this crime, except put them in prison forever.

[nursebeeme]

Officers were finally alerted by a woman "who was several blocks away who heard people discussing what was occurring" at the school on 23rd Street and called police, police Lt. Mark Gagan said.
Officers found the girl semiconscious beneath a picnic table. She was airlifted to a hospital.
Ortega was arrested as he ran from the scene, but other suspects eluded immediate capture, police said.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/28/BA621ABOF6.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0VHpRSuUH (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/28/BA621ABOF6.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0VHpRSuUH)

[Fairy1]

I saw the interview with the administrator and felt that he manned up and took quite a bit of responsibility for failure to watch the outside of the school and the hidden area where the gang rape took place. However, at the end he said that we "probably" could have done better. If this school and this town is such a dangerous place, then schools should know better. They are not too smart and not willing to go to take proper measures. Maybe they should do away with dances if they are not able to make sure there are no horrible crimes, drugging, and drinking going on. I really wish Bush could have gotten the voucher system in place where parents could put their kids into private church schools if they want. Schools are becoming so trashy that it's unbelieveable.

I agree that the schools, knowing what goes on daily, should provide better security at school functions. But I don't think it's fair to the good kids to stop having extracurricular activities. That's how we let the bad guys win. The world is different now and, as tragic as it is, we need to react appropriately. Putting all of our kids in private schools will not help, IMO. It's not so much the schools that are the problem as the kids who are attending them. Something is terribly wrong with many of our young kids these days. So much anger. I don't get it. They're so much more coddled than kids of prior generations. Maybe that's the problem? They're not equipped to handle any of the trials and tribulations of life?????

IDK, but it disgusts me to know that sooooooo many people would be willing to stand by and witness or participate in such a violent act and do nothing. Makes me worry even more about the people I walk this earth with every day. :furious:

[dellemma]

Oh my goodness, this is one of the saddest things I've ever read. Poor girl! I just don't understand this stuff.

I have a 1 year old daughter and I feel like I'm making a mental list of all the things I have to worry about. I feel like I will never be able to let her walk to school even with friends and even though it is just a few blocks away....I will walk her myself. Now, I will be a dance chaperon whether she likes it or not. I just can't seem to bear all these horrific things that happen.

[Vegas Bride]

Bless the woman who did make the call!!! I'm worried that there will be retaliation against her.
I wish we still had the town square where every body involved in commiting this crime (includes those who knew and did nothing) had to stand in broad daylight and face up to what they did.
Now they will have lawyers offering to help them slither out of what they did and it makes me sick!
The other day there was a case posted here about a father and neighbor who beat a man very severely who had supposedly fondled his little son, I say let these 2 men take care of this problem. Yes I know it's not right to have vigilante justice but my god when is enough enough? How is this country going to show the slime that this is NOT acceptable?

If the call was not made to help this girl, I have no doubt she would be dead now, her body disposed of and we'd be hearing about a missing girl, again, I say Bless the woman who called!

VB

[SkewedView]

If the call was not made to help this girl, I have no doubt she would be dead now, her body disposed of and we'd be hearing about a missing girl, again, I say Bless the woman who called!

VB

Snipped with all due respect.

Indeed, this just gives me flashbacks to the Ertman/Pena gangrape/murders.

[believe09]

You know something about this attack reminds me of this crime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Harris_County,_Texas_hate_crime_assault

I am not comparing the "hate crime" aspect-the victim in the case I referenced was assaulted over a period of 5 hours while at a party. He then lay outside for another 10 hours until he was found. While the main perps were convicted of life and 90 years respectively, I want to know how the other kids at the party can live with themselves, especially since the victim committed suicide one year later?

[Shamrock]

Sickening. Absolutely disgusting. Something is seriously wrong with every single person who either participated or watched. I really think I may throw up.

[Velouria]

You know something about this attack reminds me of this crime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Harris_County,_Texas_hate_crime_assault

I am not comparing the "hate crime" aspect-the victim in the case I referenced was assaulted over a period of 5 hours while at a party. He then lay outside for another 10 hours until he was found. While the main perps were convicted of life and 90 years respectively, I want to know how the other kids at the party can live with themselves, especially since the victim committed suicide one year later?

I know exactly what you mean, believe. That was such a horrifying case - not just the torture that boy endured, but that others could stand by and allow it to happen. I remember crying when I read that the victim had committed suicide. I pray that this girl is able to fully recover and move on with her life in a positive direction.

[justbeachy]

I am appalled. This poor girl...what has this done to her views of the world?! Being gang-raped while people WATCHED?! And LAUGHED?! No one helped her?!?!

What is wrong with the world today??? Seriously...what has changed so drastically in our society that things like this happen? Children setting other children on fire? Brother killing brother over the volume of a computer? Have we, as a society, lost all sense of right and wrong? Have we lost our compassion for others?

If this had happened when I was in school, I can NOT, under any circumstances, imagine anyone not helping. Maybe I am naive, but I truly can not imagine any of my classmates (even the "bad" ones) not helping.

I'm digusted and heart-broken for this girl.

[gxm]

You know something about this attack reminds me of this crime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Harris_County,_Texas_hate_crime_assault

I am not comparing the "hate crime" aspect-the victim in the case I referenced was assaulted over a period of 5 hours while at a party. He then lay outside for another 10 hours until he was found. While the main perps were convicted of life and 90 years respectively, I want to know how the other kids at the party can live with themselves, especially since the victim committed suicide one year later?

Actually, the hate crime bill that just passed covers gender. It's not something the media is reporting but gender is in there. If the rapists used any derogatory language (b****, c***, wh***, sl**, etc.) then there is the chance such violent, hateful assaults as the one this girl endured can be prosecuted as hate crimes.

[believe09]

I am heartened in some of the cases in TX that underage participants in similar crimes received sentences of 40 years or more. I am hoping CA follows suit if these kids are convicted.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>


RICHMOND, California (CNN) -- Police investigating the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl have arrested five people, a police spokesman said Wednesday.

Three juveniles and two adults are in custody in connection with the rape Saturday, said the Richmond police spokesman, Lt. Mark Gagan. The three juveniles will be charged as adults, he said.

Gagan said the suspects will face several felony charges in connection with the incident including "rape in concert," and that the suspects would all face the possibility of life in prison if convicted.

Gagan also said that the victim was released from a hospital Wednesday, four days after the attack.




more here

http://www.wibw.com/crime/headlines/67102982.html

[Columbo]

Reports seem to indicate she was knocked unconscious with the first punch. Please
God, she was unconscious for all of it.

I am heartened in some of the cases in TX that underage participants in similar crimes received sentences of 40 years or more. I am hoping CA follows suit if these kids are convicted.

Could you provide a link that says the first punch knocked her out? Local news (I'm in the Bay Area) has not indicated that.

News reports here say it was the brandy she drank that knocked her out very quickly.

No one has said or reported this, but I'm wondering if there was a date-rape drug involved, for her to be "out" so quickly? Purely speculation on my part and it's quite possible her young system was just not used to alcohol and it knocked her out.

I do hope that whatever the case, she was not conscious for what followed...

[Columbo]

Someone had mentioned in a post that they wished they could send money to help the victim (I couldn't find the post). This article has a lot of info and videos; at the bottom there is an address where you can send a contribution to help the victim:

Richmond High School
1250 23rd Street
Richmond, CA 94804

Checks should be made out to "Richmond High School Student Fund" with "sex assault victim" written on the memo line.

Article: http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_13662965

[believe09]

Could you provide a link that says the first punch knocked her out? Local news (I'm in the Bay Area) has not indicated that.

News reports here say it was the brandy she drank that knocked her out very quickly.

No one has said or reported this, but I'm wondering if there was a date-rape drug involved, for her to be "out" so quickly? Purely speculation on my part and it's quite possible her young system was just not used to alcohol and it knocked her out.

I do hope that whatever the case, she was not conscious for what followed...

I mixed up two stories and corrected my post. :blushing:

[Salem]

I hope the news will interview at least 3 of those "bystanders" and ask them why they did not help or report this crime. I can not understand someone's thinking. I think everyone that watched should be charged with accessory. After all, they did help because they did not stop the attack and they did not report the attack and they watched. I believe, in the law, a casual observer can not be charged with a crime because they have no duty to act. However, if they stayed and watched, I would not consider them a casual observer, I would consider them an active participant in an unlawful activity, especially if they laughed and egged the POSs on. It is a chargable crime when you egg someone on to do an unlawful activity. Not to mention I really think these observers should be embarassed and shamed.

Salem

[Salem]

I don't know if I would send money to that High School :( I think I'd rather send it to the family directly. Why is the high school in charge of the money? Most high schools would not get involved in something like that, would they?

Salem

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

Richmond, Calif. -- Police investigating the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a school dance are finding that a California law may make it impossible to prosecute as many as 20 people who saw the rape and did nothing.

A state statute requires that people must report to police any information they have about the sexual assault of children under the age of 14. There is no law requiring people do the same for victims over that age.

"The fact that our victim missed that age by a very short time ..." said Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan. "It's just very offensive that there's no statute we can use to show that we condemn their behavior."


more here

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=116514

[Salem]

If the observers egged the participants on - they can be charged. I think this Police Chief needs to dig a little harder. At least long enough to scare the pants off those cowards.

Salem

[Columbo]

I don't know if I would send money to that High School :( I think I'd rather send it to the family directly. Why is the high school in charge of the money? Most high schools would not get involved in something like that, would they?

Salem

I know what you mean about feeling uneasy about turning your money over to the high school, although I am sure that in this case it would be handled properly. I know that memorial funds (thank god this is not one) are usually handled by a bank. I don't know why the high school is in charge of the donations.

Please don't blame Richmond so much--horrific things happen all over the U.S., even the world. Richmond has a bad reputation to start with so it's easy to denounce it (not that you did, Salem, this is a general statement). I think it's the lack of parental guidance and kids being taught that doing wrong stuff is cool or okay. I think they see movies, etc, of people doing horrible things and treating people as if they were objects, and not suffering any consequences. They don't know the difference between kind and cruel, right and wrong. Even the parents don't !

I'll see if I can find out about the donations. If you watch the video of the students' meeting, you can see there are some intelligent, fine children and involved teachers at Richmond High School.

[Columbo]

<snip>

Richmond, Calif. -- Police investigating the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a school dance are finding that a California law may make it impossible to prosecute as many as 20 people who saw the rape and did nothing.

A state statute requires that people must report to police any information they have about the sexual assault of children under the age of 14. There is no law requiring people do the same for victims over that age.

"The fact that our victim missed that age by a very short time ..." said Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan. "It's just very offensive that there's no statute we can use to show that we condemn their behavior."


more here

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=116514

That age requirement is ridiculous !

[ziggy]

The main problem here is not that we don't have a statute or law for this, the problem is that we should even HAVE to.

We gotta have a law for everything I guess in order to hold them accountable and culpable - I get that but sheesh.

[SleuthyMama]

Oh my goodness, this is one of the saddest things I've ever read. Poor girl! I just don't understand this stuff.

I have a 1 year old daughter and I feel like I'm making a mental list of all the things I have to worry about. I feel like I will never be able to let her walk to school even with friends and even though it is just a few blocks away....I will walk her myself. Now, I will be a dance chaperon whether she likes it or not. I just can't seem to bear all these horrific things that happen.

When I was a kid, my dad was very protective. So much so that my mom would sometimes beg him to cool it, despite the fact that she too had grown up with a very protective Italian dad and two older brothers.

My dad used to show up at school dances a half hour to forty five minutes early and literally drive around the parking lot, waiting and watching. And when I would come out to get picked up he would question me about everything: "Why was Kristin So and So in the parking lot? Who was Karen Do De Do talking to?" and on and on.

This continued throughout high school to the point where after I had graduated from college, I would be out w/ friends at home and my dad would drive by our local bar/hangout. And my friends would see him thru the big bay window and wave and go "Hey SM, there goes your dad!"

When I was a kid it mortified me. When I became a young adult, I laughed about it. Now that I am an adult wife and mother, I can't tell you how grateful I am for it.

[Columbo]

There are four suspects in court now. No link yet but it was on KRON-tv news.

[Wudge]

I know what you mean about feeling uneasy about turning your money over to the high school, although I am sure that in this case it would be handled properly. I know that memorial funds (thank god this is not one) are usually handled by a bank. I don't know why the high school is in charge of the donations.

Please don't blame Richmond so much--horrific things happen all over the U.S., even the world. Richmond has a bad reputation to start with so it's easy to denounce it (not that you did, Salem, this is a general statement). I think it's the lack of parental guidance and kids being taught that doing wrong stuff is cool or okay. I think they see movies, etc, of people doing horrible things and treating people as if they were objects, and not suffering any consequences. They don't know the difference between kind and cruel, right and wrong. Even the parents don't !

I'll see if I can find out about the donations. If you watch the video of the students' meeting, you can see there are some intelligent, fine children and involved teachers at Richmond High School.


Such warped behavior and minds are not just from poor parenting Columbo, though that is a huge part of the problem. For many a decade, we have been moving to a society with no shame and no God. Without a God, there's no fear of a reckoning. Without shame, any act is acceptable.

Poor parenting combined with a Godless culture and a lack of shame provides a strong base for anything goes. As a detective noted, some of the kids or men they are holding feel no remorse whatsoever -- regards, our slippery slope permissive culture.

[WhyaDuck?]

Someone had mentioned in a post that they wished they could send money to help the victim (I couldn't find the post). This article has a lot of info and videos; at the bottom there is an address where you can send a contribution to help the victim:

Richmond High School
1250 23rd Street
Richmond, CA 94804

Checks should be made out to "Richmond High School Student Fund" with "sex assault victim" written on the memo line.

Article: http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_13662965

Columbo, I suggest you send the link to this post to Tricia, and see if we can get the info out to the WSrs who might not have found this thread. (In a sticky or something, maybe?)

ETA: I understand about the concerns, re: security/trustworthiness, but I am sure the admins will make up their own minds on that before posting, and everyone can make that decision before/if they donate or not. I would feel more comfortable if it were a national bank or something, but it is likely the high school is just putting it into their general scholarship donation fund, but earmarked for this specific student.

[gxm]

Such warped behavior and minds are not just from poor parenting Columbo, though that is a huge part of the problem. For many a decade, we have been moving to a society with no shame and no God. Without a God, there's no fear of a reckoning. Without shame, any act is acceptable.

Poor parenting combined with a Godless culture and a lack of shame provides a strong base for anything goes. As a detective noted, some of the kids or men they are holding feel no remorse whatsoever -- regards, our slippery slope permissive culture.

With all due respect, I'm an atheist, and therefore "godless," and I have morals. One is capable of knowing right from wrong without a fear of god's reckoning. I understand that to the faithful their god is a very important part of their world view but I hope you can understand that one can be godless and still be a morally guided person. I agree that we are living in a culture in crisis but I think that it has more to do with a lack of punishment/consequences in the here and now, as opposed to some future reckoning.

[mysticrose]

I have been holding off on posting on this thread because I am so mortified about what happened to this young lady.
I can not begin to try and comprehend such a henious act on another human being let alone join in and participate or stand by and be a spectature and do nothing !
My heart cry's true tears for this generation of kids. As I read here daily and watch the news more and more horrible crimes from teenagers emerge from the daily grind of society.
I feel our youth is becoming more and more desensitized to violence then ever before. These movies that they see and video games they play I feel have a huge impact along with not enough parental involvement in these kids day to day lives.
When your child can pick up a game controller and start shooting it up , rape women , kill police officers, take out entire citie's there is something morally wrong with that picture !
Or when they turn on the TV and sex and violence is thrown in there face on a daily basis making it seem acceptable like it's the norm there is something wrong there as well.
This is the next generation !
I can only hope that everyone of these kids are punished to the fullest extent of the law to try and set an example for other kids to perhaps do the right thing instead of what happened here. And perhaps this will be a wake up call to people to see we have a huge problem starting here and need to try and hit it head on.

As I talked about this case with my husband my 13 year old son was within earshot.
When I stated I could not understand no one coming to her aid or at least calling the police my son piped up and said " Oh yeah Mom and risk being beat up, stabbed or even killed from the group after they found out who ratted". I could not believe my ears !!! Is this the mentality of our kids, being afraid to help because of repercussions ?

My response to my son was " Yes " because it is the right thing to do. That girl needed somebody or anyone's help, it should have never been allowed to go on. Someone could have easily walked off and called 911 in private and no one would have ever known who called.

I explained that feeding into that "fear" of being hurt over trying to help someone is just what these perps count on, and unless people start making a stand for more victims it will only get worse. I said what if that had been your sister ? Would you feel differently then ?

I plan on having more talks with him as I just was in awe at what I heard.I thought such as many parents prob. do that there would be no questioning of what to do in a situation such as this with this girl and to do the right thing wich is help in whatever way you can. I don't believe it can be reiterated enough.

I pray for this young lady and that she can recover fully from this tramatic event, and that her family have strength .

[gxm]

Friends of the victim speak out.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/29/california.rape.victim.friend/index.html

[Columbo]

Columbo, I suggest you send the link to this post to Tricia, and see if we can get the info out to the WSrs who might not have found this thread. (In a sticky or something, maybe?)

ETA: I understand about the concerns, re: security/trustworthiness, but I am sure the admins will make up their own minds on that before posting, and everyone can make that decision before/if they donate or not. I would feel more comfortable if it were a national bank or something, but it is likely the high school is just putting it into their general scholarship donation fund, but earmarked for this specific student.

WhyaDuck, thank you, great suggestion--I'm not sure how to do this (send to Tricia) but will look around and see--it should be evident!
editing: p.s. just sent her a private message...

[WhyaDuck?]

WhyaDuck, thank you, great suggestion--I'm not sure how to do this (send to Tricia) but will look around and see--it should be evident!
editing: p.s. just sent her a private message...

Yeah, C., that's what I had in mind - I'm not sure how else to do it.

I just think people should be given the opportunity to give if they so choose.

[Columbo]

With all due respect, I'm an atheist, and therefore "godless," and I have morals. One is capable of knowing right from wrong without a fear of god's reckoning. I understand that to the faithful their god is a very important part of their world view but I hope you can understand that one can be godless and still be a morally guided person. I agree that we are living in a culture in crisis but I think that it has more to do with a lack of punishment/consequences in the here and now, as opposed to some future reckoning.

Whether people believe in God or don't, whatever helps them do the right thing and be moral is okay! I have an atheist friend who I think has a better grip on right, wrong, and being humane, than people I know who are supposedly religious and believe in God. That's not always the case, but I see so much hypocrisy in religion and supposedly religious people that I don't value religion so much anymore.

Maybe following the Golden Rule is the best "religion".

[Columbo]

Yeah, C., that's what I had in mind - I'm not sure how else to do it.

I just think people should be given the opportunity to give if they so choose.

Thanks! I don't see any way to give directly to the family...and I'm sure the school will be honest with the funds.

[blue_the_puppy]

I am appalled. This poor girl...what has this done to her views of the world?! Being gang-raped while people WATCHED?! And LAUGHED?! No one helped her?!?!

What is wrong with the world today??? Seriously...what has changed so drastically in our society that things like this happen? Children setting other children on fire? Brother killing brother over the volume of a computer? Have we, as a society, lost all sense of right and wrong? Have we lost our compassion for others?

If this had happened when I was in school, I can NOT, under any circumstances, imagine anyone not helping. Maybe I am naive, but I truly can not imagine any of my classmates (even the "bad" ones) not helping.

I'm digusted and heart-broken for this girl.

children are not taught BASIC RESPECT for their fellow human being anymore.
instead, children are raised thinking that they are the center of the universe, and that their own self esteem is the most important thing.

(obviously not all parents are like this .. but you know.)

[PeteyGirl]

I am neither religious NOR Godless, and agree that lack of personal responsibility and suffering the consequences of one's behavior is what is lacking. This is what contributes to the casual evil, IMO. That these onlookers were not horrified in empathy is the dividing line between something "evil" in human nature and the rest of us.

I believe that youth do not have the moral maturity that comes with age, experience and time. Many of those who witnessed this without calling for help will someday writhe in remorse, a few won't, and will go on to victimize others.

I don't believe our personal reckoning comes after death of the body, I believe it happens immediately and moment to moment throughout our lives. Opportunities abound to "reckon", and you live in heaven or hell right NOW based upon your decisions.

I suspect some of those onlookers are suffering the fires of "Hell" as we comb over this tragedy. For the sake of their souls, I really hope so.

[sniperacer]

It is my understanding those that watched, witnessed, walked by and didn't make a call or tell an authority figure can not and will not have charges brought against them. This too makes me angry :furious: beyond words.

It is my understanding it is against the law to witness a sexual assault and not report if the victim is 14 or under. So, unbelievably, watching this and not reporting is OK fine. Who the he77 thought out this law? Very sad.

[magnaccia]

There's really no law that punishes bystanders who willingly let something illegal occur without as much as calling the police?

That's strange, I know here in FL you can get in trouble for being a bystander when street racing is going on.. seems rather moronic that you can get in trouble for watching an illegal race, but it's perfectly acceptable to watch a rape and do nothing.

[sniperacer]

23rd St. in Richmond at 9:30 at night is NOT a safe place.

Exactly, the bottom line. A place where this happens, spectators come to watch and zero out of twenty (or whatever) fail to help. It is a different world than most are use too. High school campus gated and locked. Too much danger to protect all the students all the time.

Folks that live in these areas need to be aware that it is not safe.

I live in a more "normal" neighborhood, and the only danger my son faces when he goes to his high-school dance is the girls with low cut, high slit dresses, complete with g-string and garters, grind dancing with him.

[sniperacer]

There's really no law that punishes bystanders who willingly let something illegal occur without as much as calling the police?

Yes there is. As I said, it is my understanding in CA, it is against the law to witness a sexual assault and not report if the victim is 14 or under. This law seems a little incomplete.

[Columbo]

Four suspects were arraigned today.

snipped from article:
"Three of the defendants, San Pablo residents Cody Ray Smith, 15, and Ari Abdallah Morales, 16, and Pinole resident Marcelles James Peter, 17, are charged with rape by foreign object in concert. Morales is also charged with robbery. All three are being charged as adults.


The fourth defendant, 19-year-old Manuel Ortega, is charged with robbery, assault by force likely to produce great bodily injury and rape in concert."


http://cbs5.com/localwire/22.0.html?type=bcn&item=RICHMOND-SUSPECTS-11-18

Smith pleads "not guilty" ; Morales has hired a private attorney. Peter and Ortega have a public defender. They used a foreign object, too. How much worse is it going to get?

[Columbo]

There's really no law that punishes bystanders who willingly let something illegal occur without as much as calling the police?

That's strange, I know here in FL you can get in trouble for being a bystander when street racing is going on.. seems rather moronic that you can get in trouble for watching an illegal race, but it's perfectly acceptable to watch a rape and do nothing.

I think I read somewhere if LE can prove that they were doing more than just watching--if they cheered or helped the rapists in any way, they can be prosecuted. I'm not a lawyer--I'm just guessing. Any lawyers out there??

[Columbo]

I'm not sure about the trustworthiness of the site where I got this but here it is, supposedly from a friend of the victim. She says the school IS to blame:

http://bossip.com/172899/friend-of-gang-rape-victim-says-this-school-is-to-blame/

I found it especially heartrending that she had dressed up in a purple spangly dress with fake gems for this dance, and that she was a churchgoer who struggled to fit in at Richmond High. What those slime did to her was beyond cruel, it's just unimaginable.

[Dani_md]

You know something about this attack reminds me of this crime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Harris_County,_Texas_hate_crime_assault

I am not comparing the "hate crime" aspect-the victim in the case I referenced was assaulted over a period of 5 hours while at a party. He then lay outside for another 10 hours until he was found. While the main perps were convicted of life and 90 years respectively, I want to know how the other kids at the party can live with themselves, especially since the victim committed suicide one year later?


Oh my goodness, I remember when this happened. I would come here and try to find updates, I never knew he committed suicide. How tragic and how sad that everyone knew who "he" was. I remember the news articles posting his pictures too.

[Missizzy]

Two years ago, our quaint little town was rocked by teen "sex dances"--non-school sponsored fundraisers. They spread like wildfire and parents were literally caught unawares. A dance sounded like great fun. These dances were raising funds for Planned Parenthood and for educational trips. All dances to date had been school sponsored so few questions were asked. Security had always been fine. What could go wrong?

We, as parents, should have been ashamed of ourselves, though, as these dances quickly became totally inappropriate and highly dangerous. College boys as chaperones??!! I can't tell you, though, how many very "good" kids were involved. Below is a link to two articles about these dances which were finally broken up by local police. Sadly, the young lady mentioned who was found unconscious did turn out to be sexually assaulted.

http://archive.dailytidings.com/2007/0920/stories/0920_sex_dance.php

http://archive.dailytidings.com/2007/0830/stories/0830_oped_edit.php

I realize that the Richmond High dance was school sponsored and thus, parents have an expectation of security. That, and a dollar might get you a cup of coffee. My suggestion is for parents to check out planned security for any dance. Talk to the principal. I also highly suggest calling the local police to see if they have any advice or insight.

It never ceases to amaze me at how careful we will be with our six year olds and then how careless we are with our 16 year olds. I wonder how many parents of teens have chaperoned at a dance in the last five years or so. I think you would be gob-smacked at what goes on. Yes, children must grow and mature but they continue to require guidance and close supervision to be safe. Remember, kids' brains are still not fully developed until they are in their twenties. After raising 13, I can guarantee you, if a mistake or a poor choice can be made, it will. We have to remain vigilant!! Trust me, just because they're in high school, you're not done as a parent--not by a long shot.

My heart breaks for this young lady. Her school and her community failed her. She was so vulnerable and the vultures were circling. I can only pray that her pain is a catalyst for greater safety at this and many many other schools.

[joga]

Exactly, the bottom line. A place where this happens, spectators come to watch and zero out of twenty (or whatever) fail to help. It is a different world than most are use too. High school campus gated and locked. Too much danger to protect all the students all the time.

Folks that live in these areas need to be aware that it is not safe.

I live in a more "normal" neighborhood, and the only danger my son faces when he goes to his high-school dance is the girls with low cut, high slit dresses, complete with g-string and garters, grind dancing with him.


ah the old, oh that would never happen in my town!!...lol. how many times have we seen that kind of thinking shot down? anything can happen to anyone at anytime, anywhere. would you have considered columbine high to be in a "more normal" neighborhood?

[Missizzy]

Joga--That's my point exactly. "My" sweet, quaint little town full of kind-hearted gentle teens would never do anything horrid like this. Yeah, right. And where did the rapist live who hurt my children and so many others? In this wonderful community. The reason I posted the links above is so people can be reminded that even in "nice" towns, unspeakable acts happen. It's too early to really be pointing fingers. I'm just trying to say that bad things happen everywhere and rationalizing away danger, never works.

People can be evil and they can be anywhere.

[Texas Mist]

video report

http://www.ktvu.com/video/21467972/index.html


Ortega, apparently, has no fear as he didn't wear a vest (JMOOOC)

[Wudge]

With all due respect, I'm an atheist, and therefore "godless," and I have morals. One is capable of knowing right from wrong without a fear of god's reckoning. I understand that to the faithful their god is a very important part of their world view but I hope you can understand that one can be godless and still be a morally guided person. I agree that we are living in a culture in crisis but I think that it has more to do with a lack of punishment/consequences in the here and now, as opposed to some future reckoning.

'Capable'. Yes. If they are so taught.

Morality is a main teaching of all major religions. When religious teaching is reduced, something must necessarily fill that gap just to maintain the status quo. However, the filling of that gap is obviously not coming from improved parenting. And you will not find street creed filling the gap, which is where ever more young people gain their sense of morality today.

Atheists are the fastest growing religious identification (a seeming oxymoron) group in America. If we eliminate God and a fear of reckoning, anything would and will go. At that point, our society would have reached the apex in liberal permissiveness.

Don't look past the tremendous restraint that a God figure places on our society and various cultures. Remove that restraint and our society would be a very, very different world, and the behavior that we detest today would become still far, far uglier.

I don't discount the possibity that someday we will become a Godless society. The good news is that I don't expect to live to see it.

FWIW

[Wudge]

I think I read somewhere if LE can prove that they were doing more than just watching--if they cheered or helped the rapists in any way, they can be prosecuted. I'm not a lawyer--I'm just guessing. Any lawyers out there??

If there is evidence that a person encouraged or urged another person to commit a crime, they could be indicted and tried as an accomplice.

[JBean]

If there is evidence that a person encouraged or urged another person to commit a crime, they could be indicted and tried as an accomplice.
I just listened to a the Deputy DA and she said exactly this. She said if they can prove that anyone encouraged or egged anyone on they will be charged and tried as principles and are as guilty as those that actually committed the crime.

Also included in the intervewi was a clip of one of the students that was there speaking at a meeting of the school yesterday. She said there was group of boys and men hanging outside the campus and everyone, including the security and school officials knew they were there, yet did nothing to make them disperse or check their ID's to find out who they were or what they were doing there.
She also said the security on the campus is not adequate in general and she feels they have been ostrasized from the district because of the minorities on their campus.

[JBean]

Yes there is. As I said, it is my understanding in CA, it is against the law to witness a sexual assault and not report if the victim is 14 or under. This law seems a little incomplete.
According to the asst DA, there is no crime if you watch and do not do anything. but if you yell or encourage or participate in any way at all and then all bets are off if they can prove it.

I will post this interview on KFI that I heard when the podcast becomes available. It was very informative.

[WhyaDuck?]

The following is kind of O/T, but this is a topic that fascinates me, ethically-speaking.

On the subject of the moral obligations of bystanders (I am not qualified to speak on the subject of legal results), here's a quote from the Talmud some of you might be familiar with:

If one person is able to save another and does not save him, he transgresses the commandment neither shalt thou stand idly by the blood of thy neighbor (Leviticus 19:16)... Although there is no flogging for these prohibitions, because their breach involves no action, the offense is most serious, for if one destroys the life of a single Israelite, it is regarded as though he destroyed the whole world, and if one preserves the life of a single Israelite, it is regarded as though he preserved the whole world...


(For me, I think you can replace "Israelite" with "creature" or "human.")

For more on this topic for those interested, here's an interesting little paper:
http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/kitveyet/assia_english/kirschenbaum.htm

[Wudge]

I just listened to a the Deputy DA and she said exactly this. She said if they can prove that anyone encouraged or egged anyone on they will be charged and tried as principles and are as guilty as those that actually committed the crime.

Also included in the intervewi was a clip of one of the students that was there speaking at a meeting of the school yesterday. She said there was group of boys and men hanging outside the campus and everyone, including the security and school officials knew they were there, yet did nothing to make them disperse or check their ID's to find out who they were or what they were doing there.
She also said the security on the campus is not adequate in general and she feels they have been ostrasized from the district because of the minorities on their campus.


Hello Jill. Before, during or after a crime has taken place, a person can become an accomplice or a co-conspirator or an aider and abettor in a truly short period of time.

As regards the security at the dance, I highly suspect the school will soon face a civil lawsuit. This is not a case that a schoolboard would want to a jury to decide.

[JBean]

Hello Jill. Before, during or after a crime has taken place, a person can become an accomplice or a co-conspirator or an aider and abettor in a truly short period of time.

As regards the security at the dance, I highly suspect the school will soon face a civil lawsuit. This is not a case that a schoolboard would want to a jury to decide.Hi Wudge.
That is pretty much exactly what the deputy DA said about aiding ,abetting and being a co-conspirator.

She did try to shift the blame squarely on the shoulders of the perps, as it should be, but she defintiely was dodging the notion that any other agency or authority should be blamed at this time. I think any time a school sanctioned event is held ESPECIALLY in a high risk area, LE ,district and school official have to take extra measures to make sure it is safety first. Heck, any time you have a large concentration of young people there are things that you have to expect to happen.
Sounds from the student that spoke at the school meeting as though there is very little security on that campus in the first place.
heads are gonna roll on this one.
My biggest concern is if people wouldn;t even call 911, who is going to step up as witnesses and finger the main offenders? Unless there is some great DNA or other solid forensics, I am afarid these people are going to be hard to convict. if for no other reason, how many want to stand up in court and i say yeah I watched the whole thing and it was him and him and btw I did nothing.
Hopefully they can get those phone clips and pictures, they are going to need them imo.

[Columbo]

I can't believe what I just heard: the families of the suspects are defending these creeps!
they haven't shown the story on the news yet (abc7 s.f.) but I'm burning up already. What is wrong with people? :furious:

Actually I am editing this to say that there is a segment on a video posted previously that shows relatives denying that their child took part in this. They are denying that it even happened almost. Makes me so mad. What fairyland are they living in?
http://www.ktvu.com/video/21467972/index.html

[gxm]

I can't believe what I just heard: the families of the suspects are defending these creeps!
they haven't shown the story on the news yet (abc7 s.f.) but I'm burning up already. What is wrong with people? :furious:

It shouldn't be surprising. That's why these young men were able to commit such a heinous act. Their hateful, callous attitudes have been accepted, accommodated and excused by those who raised them.

[WhyaDuck?]

I cannot really speak from experience, as I have never had a really close relative (or, fates forbid, a child) commit a major crime, but as it is, I cannot understand people who can stand behind people who do such heinous things - kill their child, rape and maim strangers, etc.

Especially people who can stand behind them instantly without a second thought! (Of course, I even have a second thought when I choose regular cream cheese over low fat, so I usually can't fathom anyone doing anything with major implications without second guessing themselves.)

[WhyaDuck?]

It shouldn't be surprising. That's why these young men were able to commit such a heinous act. Their hateful, callous attitudes have been accepted, accommodated and excused by those who raised them.

I hope each one of these rapists was an only child. :(

[JBean]

I can't believe what I just heard: the families of the suspects are defending these creeps!
they haven't shown the story on the news yet (abc7 s.f.) but I'm burning up already. What is wrong with people? :furious:

Actually I am editing this to say that there is a segment on a video posted previously that shows relatives denying that their child took part in this. They are denying that it even happened almost. Makes me so mad. What fairyland are they living in?
http://www.ktvu.com/video/21467972/index.html

I know one family is convinced that their child was charged because he is black. the DA said she doesn't even know what color or race any of them are when she decides who to charge. She just looks to see if she has enough evidence. the family of the sole black defendant has said if their son gets life they will sue the city.
crikey.

Wait until the "she was asking for it" brigade come out. but one thing we learned from the Haidl gang rape here in CA a few years ago is that even if she said "yes" at any time prior it doesn't matter. if she couldn;t say "yes" at the time due to being incapacitated on liquor or drugs then ya can't do it. She is going to be attacked by the family I just know it as if being brutalized isn't enough.

[Columbo]

'Capable'. Yes. If they are so taught.

Morality is a main teaching of all major religions. When religious teaching is reduced, something must necessarily fill that gap just to maintain the status quo. However, the filling of that gap is obviously not coming from improved parenting. And you will not find street creed filling the gap, which is where ever more young people gain their sense of morality today.

Atheists are the fastest growing religious identification (a seeming oxymoron) group in America. If we eliminate God and a fear of reckoning, anything would and will go. At that point, our society would have reached the apex in liberal permissiveness.

Don't look past the tremendous restraint that a God figure places on our society and various cultures. Remove that restraint and our society would be a very, very different world, and the behavior that we detest today would become still far, far uglier.

I don't discount the possibity that someday we will become a Godless society. The good news is that I don't expect to live to see it.

FWIW

I don't know if I totally agree but I honor your opinion and thoughts. You may be right...

[WhyaDuck?]

I know one family is convinced that their child was charged because he is black. the DA said she doesn't even know what color or race any of them are when she decides who to charge. She just looks to see if she has enough evidence. the family of the sole black defendant has said if their son gets life they will sue the city.
crikey.

Wait until the "she was asking for it" brigade come out. but one thing we learned from the Haidl gang rape here in CA a few years ago is that even if she said "yes" at any time prior it doesn't matter. if she couldn;t say "yes" at the time due to being incapacitated on liquor or drugs then ya can't do it. She is going to be attacked by the family I just know it as if being brutalized isn't enough.

BBM

Now, without knowing the facts, if he was the *only* dependent to get life, I actually would be a bit concerned. (Unless he was conclusively shown to be the only rapist and the ring leader, etc, etc, of course.)

[Columbo]

I know one family is convinced that their child was charged because he is black. the DA said she doesn't even know what color or race any of them are when she decides who to charge. She just looks to see if she has enough evidence. the family of the sole black defendant has said if their son gets life they will sue the city.
crikey.

Wait until the "she was asking for it" brigade come out. but one thing we learned from the Haidl gang rape here in CA a few years ago is that even if she said "yes" at any time prior it doesn't matter. if she couldn;t say "yes" at the time due to being incapacitated on liquor or drugs then ya can't do it. She is going to be attacked by the family I just know it as if being brutalized isn't enough.

bolded by me.

But of course. I hate to say this, but why do people always have to play the race card? Why don't they take an objective look at the child they have created? Hearing this woman speak, it sounds as if she denies the entire incident took place. It just boggles my mind. I bet if she had been standing there watching it she would still deny it was happening.

[JBean]

BBM

Now, without knowing the facts, if he was the *only* dependent to get life, I actually would be a bit concerned. (Unless he was conclusively shown to be the only rapist and the ring leader, etc, etc, of course.)
Well according to the aunt he was just walking by.

[WhyaDuck?]

I don't know if I totally agree but I honor your opinion and thoughts. You may be right...

The only thing that bothers me about blaming things like this on "G-dlessness" is that back when people were more religious, they were just doing bad things in the name of that - now, they just do it in their own names, so I dunno.

Perhaps it is the decline in Boy Scout memberships. Or the failure of the manufacturing and production industries in North America. Or changes in educational practice and consumer behaviours, etc...

Or maybe it's all of the above, and a dozen other things, to varying degrees for different people and situations... I like that one.

[WhyaDuck?]

Well according to the aunt he was just walking by.

Well, then for his sake, I hope there's a video that can prove that. Or, alternatively, for society's sake there is video to prove he's lying.

This is a messy case; not envious of the prosecutors in this whatsoever.

[Sedona]

Well according to the aunt he was just walking by.


Well, I think he better start singing if he wants to save his own ass, because I'm sure he saw more than nothing. :twocents:

[JBean]

Well, then for his sake, I hope there's a video that can prove that. Or, alternatively, for society's sake there is video to prove he's lying.

This is a messy case; not envious of the prosecutors in this whatsoever.
Well I am not sure why the DA would charge him if he was just walking by.

but stranger things have happened.

I just think if no witnesses come forward this could be a tough sell. I am praying for pix and videos for once in my life.
But even in the Haidl trial there was a full video and even then the jury could not convict the first time around. Depends on charges and consequences. Juries hate to lock young people up forever.

stay tuned folks

[WhyaDuck?]

Well I am not sure why the DA would charge him if he was just walking by.

but stranger things have happened.

I just think if no witnesses come forward this could be a tough sell. I am praying for pix and videos for once in my life.
But even in the Haidl trial there was a full video and even then the jury could not convict the first time around. Depends on charges and consequences. Juries hate to lock young people up forever.

stay tuned folks

BBM

Not sure I understand that one in severe crimes like this - I'd much rather have a guy using a walker chase me than a young fella.

[JBean]

BBM

Not sure I understand that one in severe crimes like this - I'd much rather have a guy using a walker chase me than a young fella.Read up on Greg haidl's trial. shocking what they did to this gal, 3 guys drugged her and raped her in all kinds of ways including snapple bottles and pool cues. Filmed the whole thing.
First jury couldn't convict and interpreted the video in different ways. arrgh.
DA reduced all the charges so they wouldn;t be locked up for 50 years and the next jury was able to convict them. It was a discouraging trial they put the victim on trial and really did a number on her.

[Columbo]

Well, then for his sake, I hope there's a video that can prove that. Or, alternatively, for society's sake there is video to prove he's lying.

This is a messy case; not envious of the prosecutors in this whatsoever.

bolded by me.

I wonder if these slimey creeps would have kept the videos or erased them? I hope they didn't bother erasing them. Although I wonder how good the pictures could be since they would have been taken in the dark, it would be evidence.

[JBean]

oh for the love of Pete! this is new information to me. what a bunch of $&^*T*

OC Rapist Greg Haidl Wants Conviction Overturned
Haidl, Kyle Nachreiner and Keith Spann, want court to lift a requirement that they register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.


http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-greg-haidl,0,1950024.story

The three are basing their appeal on the credibility of the girl, identified as "Jane Doe."

Defense attorneys had argued she was faking unconsciousness, and was a willing participant in the sex acts.



BLAHHHHHHHHHH. well the timing of this Richmond rape will not help their case and I am glad for that.

[Columbo]

Read up on Greg haidl's trial. shocking what they did to this gal, 3 guys drugged her and raped her in all kinds of ways including snapple bottles and pool cues. Filmed the whole thing.
First jury couldn't convict and interpreted the video in different ways. arrgh.
DA reduced all the charges so they wouldn;t be locked up for 50 years and the next jury was able to convict them. It was a discouraging trial they put the victim on trial and really did a number on her.

That really is discouraging. So much depends on the jury and their mentality. I'm not familiar with Greg Haidl but will try googling him.

[WhyaDuck?]

bolded by me.

I wonder if these slimey creeps would have kept the videos or erased them? I hope they didn't bother erasing them. Although I wonder how good the pictures could be since they would have been taken in the dark, it would be evidence.

Nothing is ever really deleted. Besides, someone has likely already sent their cell footage to a hundred different friends. These things travel fast.

*fingers crossed*

[Columbo]

oh for the love of Pete! this is new information to me. what a bunch of $&^*T*

OC Rapist Greg Haidl Wants Conviction Overturned
Haidl, Kyle Nachreiner and Keith Spann, want court to lift a requirement that they register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.


http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-greg-haidl,0,1950024.story

That is sick....

[Columbo]

Nothing is ever really deleted. Besides, someone has likely already sent their cell footage to a hundred different friends. These things travel fast.

*fingers crossed*

bolded by me.

YES!! The proverbial stupid criminals; I hope their cell phones bite them in the butt.

[Patthebunny]

You can't fix EVIL.

[gxm]

'Capable'. Yes. If they are so taught.

Morality is a main teaching of all major religions. When religious teaching is reduced, something must necessarily fill that gap just to maintain the status quo. However, the filling of that gap is obviously not coming from improved parenting. And you will not find street creed filling the gap, which is where ever more young people gain their sense of morality today.

Atheists are the fastest growing religious identification (a seeming oxymoron) group in America. If we eliminate God and a fear of reckoning, anything would and will go. At that point, our society would have reached the apex in liberal permissiveness.

Don't look past the tremendous restraint that a God figure places on our society and various cultures. Remove that restraint and our society would be a very, very different world, and the behavior that we detest today would become still far, far uglier.

I don't discount the possibity that someday we will become a Godless society. The good news is that I don't expect to live to see it.

FWIW

There is no link between atheism and crime, as a matter of fact, the opposite of what you contend is happening: Crime rates in the US have dropped. Could it be the rise in atheism?

But I don't really think that this is the time or place to have that debate so let's agree to disagree.

[Suthrnqt]

Evil lurks in the hearts of young men...

[gxm]

Well, then for his sake, I hope there's a video that can prove that. Or, alternatively, for society's sake there is video to prove he's lying.

This is a messy case; not envious of the prosecutors in this whatsoever.

I'm hoping there's forensic evidence because if the victim was unconscious most of the time, she won't be able to identify her attackers. This is the time for the bystanders to step up and do the right thing and start naming names.

[Suthrnqt]

There is no link between atheism and crime, as a matter of fact, the opposite of what you contend is happening: Crime rates in the US have dropped. Could it be the rise in atheism?

But I don't really think that this is the time or place to have that debate so let's agree to disagree.

ITA!! Look @ all the crime that has been done in the name of God throughout history.

[Patthebunny]

If you've heard the recent news, out of Missouri, you will find, evil (also) lurks in the heart of young women. What a mad, sad world...

[JBean]

okay here is an excellent interview with the asst DA and a clip of one of the students speaking at a school meeting last night.
John and Ken
10/29
Gang rape 3 pm hour:

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/podcasting/

[MeoW333]

And publish their names, and put pictures of them out there !!

There isn't a kid alive who doesn't have a cell phone--someone could have called for help...

This story disgusted me so much! I agree they should publish their faces and names. There is no excuse for them not to call 911 right away. Some of them even jumped in. Reminds me of the Lord of the Flies book! :furious:

[sniperacer]

KFI

JBean - I love KFI. They do a very good job of in-depth reporting and interviews. That one guy (name escapes me) has some good contacts and knows how to get folks to talk.

I suggest the KFI podcast to all.

[sniperacer]

Well I am not sure why the DA would charge him if he was just walking by.

but stranger things have happened.

I just think if no witnesses come forward this could be a tough sell. I am praying for pix and videos for once in my life.

stay tuned folks

Does anyone know, for a fact, how the DA is determining who to charge? Some say there is a video? How many kids where there? How many sexual assaults?

Update: They are up to 6 as of now.



I agree, with so much at stake, this is a tough one.

[sniperacer]

Evil lurks in the hearts of young men...

LOL, I'm guessing you have daughters?

[Columbo]

Does anyone know, for a fact, how the DA is determining who to charge? Some say there is a video? How many kids where there? How many sexual assaults?

Update: They are up to 6 as of now.



I agree, with so much at stake, this is a tough one.

JBean posted a radio show where the DA was interviewed. She said because it's an ongoing investigation, she couldn't talk about the evidence used to determine suspects. But there is evidence, and that is all she is using to arrest these perps.

[adnoid]

Evil lurks in the hearts of young men...

Hey, not all of us.

[Trino]

Did anyone besides me read that the aunt who cares for one of the suspects (the 15 yr old?) is screaming racial discrimination?

[gxm]

Did anyone besides me read that the aunt who cares for one of the suspects (the 15 yr old?) is screaming racial discrimination?

It was mentioned yesterday. I think it's very sad that one suspect's family felt the need to drag race into this horrific crime. Although we don't know the race of the victim, it makes it look like they are viewing this inexcusable assault through a biased lens. Wouldn't a simple "he's not guilty" have sufficed?

Regardless, according to the DA, suspects are being identified on the basis of evidence, not race. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what sort of evidence they have.

[Trino]

Another forum mentioned some of the suspects may be illegally in the US.

[songline]

Look at the dead eyes. No one home here. I'm thinking he was NAGANG or aspiring to be. We need to find a way to get these b*^ta#$ds off the streets at an early enough age to protect society from them. Other countries separate kids according to their academic progress, or lack of, and put the rest in the military or some kind of "rehabilitative" program. I'm afraid we will need to consider that in this country. So much for freedom. Those who don't appreciate it don't deserve it. :banghead:

BBM
ITA his eyes are cold, very cold, and that scars me.
There is NO rehabilitating that...It is void of spirit.

[songline]

okay here is an excellent interview with the asst DA and a clip of one of the students speaking at a school meeting last night.
John and Ken
10/29
Gang rape 3 pm hour:

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/podcasting/
That was a great interview and she was sort of not wanting the School to take to much of the pressure; which IMO is not right.
YES the perpetrators will be convicted, but security guards in and a round the school for a night event should always be there regardless of social economical conditions of the areas population, these are kids.
I wonder what is it with that particular area close to Antioch where JC was captive for 18 years and nobody noticed, why that entire area is so hmmm I cant find the words.
But this bad behaviour and bad policing is rampant in that area and it comes in various forms, but non the less Police is not policing they are asleep for sure, and peoples moral code seems to be increasingly demonic . That area is in need of some really good police force and we have 10% unemployment. :waitasec:

[Trino]

Richmond, CA demographics:
http://www.muninetguide.com/states/california/municipality/Richmond.php

Richmond High School test results and demographics: (Scroll to bottom for ethnicity/race)
http://www.zillow.com/school/CA-Richmond/West-Contra-Costa-Unified-6708/Richmond-High-School-12543/

[angelmom]

Richmond, CA demographics:
http://www.muninetguide.com/states/california/municipality/Richmond.php

Richmond High School test results and demographics: (Scroll to bottom for ethnicity/race)
http://www.zillow.com/school/CA-Richmond/West-Contra-Costa-Unified-6708/Richmond-High-School-12543/

Wow. With those test scores I doubt anyone who has any other option goes there.

[Columbo]

21 year old Salvador Rodriguez has been released due to insufficient evidence..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091031/ap_on_re_us/us_homecoming_gang_rape_37

[PrayersForMaura]

If you are bothered by parents protecting their sons after a rape has taken place, read: "Our Guys", by Bernard Lefkowitz -- High School jocks who lived in the toney suburb of Glen Ridge N.J. raped a mentally retarded teenager. After you start to read the book, I doubt you will put it down.

there was a movie about that one, too, i believe.
very sad and extremely shocking. they raped the girl using foreign objects, too ... i believe one was the handle of a baseball bat. :furious: :sick:

there are some sick, crazy, cruel people in this world...

[Trino]

21 year old Salvador Rodriguez has been released due to insufficient evidence..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091031/ap_on_re_us/us_homecoming_gang_rape_37

I wonder how much help the girl has been. She must have known some of her attackers.

Did these idiots really believe they would get away with such a terrible crime? Did they think the girl might die, and they would be off the hook? Or, didn't they care at all?

[believe09]

I wonder how much help the girl has been. She must have known some of her attackers.

Did these idiots really believe they would get away with such a terrible crime? Did they think the girl might die, and they would be off the hook? Or, didn't they care at all?


Waiting to hear that the brandy was laced with something. Given that possibility, I hope, hope, hope that she cannot remember anything. I am sure she may have an idea who was in the crowd prior to her downing the drink, and perhaps that is what was used for the intial list of suspects. I am assuming that DNA of the 5 still in custody or some kind of photographic evidence is keeping them where they are. JMO.

[Columbo]

I wonder how much help the girl has been. She must have known some of her attackers.

Did these idiots really believe they would get away with such a terrible crime? Did they think the girl might die, and they would be off the hook? Or, didn't they care at all?

The day after the attack, she still could not speak--that's how badly beaten she was. And she was unconscious right away, after drinking that brandy.

I'm not sure how many of the people in the group drinking she would have known, even if she couldn't say specifically which ones attacked her (although I assume it was all of them). Some were former students at RHS, and I believe only two were currently students there--one was her so-called "friend" who had led her over to the "party". She was only a freshman or sophomore at 15 years old so those guys might have been attending before she even enrolled.

I'm afraid if the police hadn't shown up when they did, someone would have tried to solve things by killing her. It's hard to tell what goes on in the mind of these demented creeps who are really only children. Do they start sobering up and then realize the enormity of what happened, and go a step further -- thinking they had better silence her permanently? I don't know.

[Columbo]

Waiting to hear that the brandy was laced with something. Given that possibility, I hope, hope, hope that she cannot remember anything. I am sure she may have an idea who was in the crowd prior to her downing the drink, and perhaps that is what was used for the intial list of suspects. I am assuming that DNA of the 5 still in custody or some kind of photographic evidence is keeping them where they are. JMO.

The date-rape drug aspect occurred to me, too. However, I think that brandy can pack quite a wallop, especially to a young girl who is not used to drinking--then chugs a lot in a short time.

[stilettos]

Hey, not all of us.

Agreed, Adnoid. There are many, many good men and boys out there. Hard to find, yes. BUT they are there.

Evil actually lurks in the hearts of all mankind. It is up to us as individuals to hold it at bay and allow the good in us to be all the rises up. I have felt the evil in me as I want to personally have a hand in the punishment of beasts like these. I will not do it....but Lord...I think about it. These young men made a choice...now I pray that they are served great consequence for their actions. Not sure that any punishment that the justice system meets out would be sufficient.

[Columbo]

Agreed, Adnoid. There are many, many good men and boys out there. Hard to find, yes. BUT they are there.

Evil actually lurks in the hearts of all mankind. It is up to us as individuals to hold it at bay and allow the good in us to be all the rises up. I have felt the evil in me as I want to personally have a hand in the punishment of beasts like these. I will not do it....but Lord...I think about it. These young men made a choice...now I pray that they are served great consequence for their actions. Not sure that any punishment that the justice system meets out would be sufficient.

partly bolded by me. ("Hand" was already bolded)

I was talking to a young man who is a friend of mine about this very subject. I told him I "hate to say it, but they deserve life in prison". He said "Why do you hate to say it? " My thought was that kids do stupid things, thus the hesitation to condemn them to life in prison. He responded that "stupid" is when you hot-wire a car and take it for a joy ride. Gang raping, beating, and robbing a helpless victim for 2.5 hours is not stupid; it's sick. He was fully for giving them life in prison (and recreational time with "Bubba"). Since this conversation I solidly say, give them life in prison.

I have to add there are times when it seems as if euthanasia would be too good a punishment for these idiots.

[Columbo]

The family of the victim has asked that any donations or cards (no flowers at this time) be sent to the Pastor of their church, Jim Wheeler.

"Victory over Violence Fund"
First Presbyterian Church of Richmond
3415 Barrett Ave
Richmond, CA 94805

His name and address, email, etc are in this link:

http://www.wccusd.net/Documents/Homepage/harassmentinfo.aspx?PageView=Shared

There's also been an account set up at Mechanics Bank:
for our young Jane Doe victim.

Mechanics Bank
3170 Hilltop Mall Road
Richmond, Calif 94806

account #: 041-30-1188
please make checks payable to Jane Doe of Richmond


You can also send donations to the High School, as previously posted. Thanks.
Columbo

[Trino]

I just hope they get all those directly involved in the rape AND are able to charge the by-standers, especially those who took pictures.

[Trino]

OMG, police say as many as 10 people were involved in the rape!
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/31/california.gang.rape/index.html

[Columbo]

OMG, police say as many as 10 people were involved in the rape!
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/31/california.gang.rape/index.html

thanks--I'm a local and I didn't even hear that yet.

The pastor of their church is saying what a hard time the parents are having with this. At a community meeting re violence, ex-students at RHS stood up and said that the area where she was raped was a problem area 30 years ago (estimating that by the age of the speaker). Kids got away with everything in that remote area. A younger guy stood up and said that violence is "out of control" at RHS; his parents had to pull his younger sister out of there because she got jumped too many times.

It's hard for me to comprehend. I guess I grew up in a more civilized time. It's hard enough to be a teenager; how can they go to school and learn in constant fear of harm?

[sniperacer]

It's hard for me to comprehend. I guess I grew up in a more civilized time.

IMO, it is NOT the time, so much as the place.

Once a long, long time ago (I was 17), I was coming back from a trip, going through a part of LA I did not belong, and running out of gas. I called my father who's advice was "Do not stop for gas, do not get off the freeway - drive as far away from the area until you run out of gas and call back". I am a Watts riot and LA riot survivor.

[believe09]

I can think of several spots where I went to school a hundred years ago that might house this kind of activity. I can think of situations that occurred when I was a student which, in retrospect, might have been hinting on unsavory behavior where a female was victimized. I think it has always been around-the difference here, perhaps, is that someone actually made the call that brought it all down. And this child did not have to try and recover, and then go back to school where she would be pointed at and whispered about in the hallways...and where she would have to sit next to the perps.

I think of episodes of bullying in my high school-broken bones, bloody noses, kids being ground emotionally into dust. I am not sure that it is something new either to hear that high school freshmen get "jumped."

What I think is different is that now we say that it is unacceptable, AND when something makes it to this level we demand some kind of consequences.

What has me fearing for society is what will happen to those children who did nothing? What consequences will they receive from the people in their lives for letting it happen?

[Columbo]

IMO, it is NOT the time, so much as the place.

Once a long, long time ago (I was 17), I was coming back from a trip, going through a part of LA I did not belong, and running out of gas. I called my father who's advice was "Do not stop for gas, do not get off the freeway - drive as far away from the area until you run out of gas and call back". I am a Watts riot and LA riot survivor.

It's absolutely true, there are some areas that have a higher concentration of criminals and criminal activity. I guess it's always been like that. You were lucky to get such sound advice from your dad!

I think that the degree of violence has escalated since I was a kid because children see too much aggravated behavior these days, and I think they get desensitized. The most violent thing we had was the Three Stooges, which my mom did not want us watching ! Of course, we did watch them, but I don't go around hitting people over the head with hammers...

[Columbo]

More information is surfacing about this rape and beating. It's horrifying and sad.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/01/MNR41ACRGU.DTL

[songline]

More information is surfacing about this rape and beating. It's horrifying and sad.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/01/MNR41ACRGU.DTL

Yes I did read that this morning, and I was furious. An area known to be problematic, they called this inevitable. :doh:

Inevitable and they did not assign a guard specifically for that area? that should have been assigned 24/7/365 - especially knowing there will be a party on that night, a couple of guards should have been placed near by - somebody should be sued.
I think her family is saying we need to focus on what we can do that is positive, and that is commendable at this difficult moment...But I hope they are not going to humbly walk away....This Town owes them big.
I am still banging my head at the on lookers....:sick:

[JBean]

Yes I did read that this morning, and I was furious. An area known to be problematic, they called this inevitable. :doh:

Inevitable and they did not assign a guard specifically for that area? that should have been assigned 24/7/365 - especially knowing there will be a party on that night, a couple of guards should have been placed near by - somebody should be sued.
I think her family is saying we need to focus on what we can do that is positive, and that is commendable at this difficult moment...But I hope they are not going to humbly walk away....This Town owes them big.
I am still banging my head at the on lookers....:sick:
They said they did a "sweep of the campus" after the party. Not much of a sweep imo. One attendee also said there was a group of uninvited boys/men loitering outside the dance and admin and security were made aware of them. But she also said they didn't question them,ask for ID or otherwise investigate this group during the evening.

[LinasK]

Did anyone besides me read that the aunt who cares for one of the suspects (the 15 yr old?) is screaming racial discrimination?
Yes, Ironic since it occurred in Richmond, where the majority population is black!!! She's as bad as the family of the guy who shot the 4 cops in Oakland, defending him and also crying racism:razz:, e.g. not my poor innocent nephew who was arrested on a whim! (my words)

[mysteriew]

Yes, Ironic since it occurred in Richmond, where the majority population is black!!! She's as bad as the family of the guy who shot the 4 cops in Oakland, defending him and also crying racism:razz:, e.g. not my poor innocent nephew who was arrested on a whim! (my words)

Would I be wrong in saying that is racist behavior? If he was a white man and claiming that he was only being prosecuted because of his race, that would be called racism wouldn't it?

[EmMomma]

Snipped from the article above...
"but also worried counselors by trying too hard to please the school's bad boys."

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I don't give a flying fig WHAT kind of boys this girl tried to "please", SHE IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM of a horrific, disgusting attack.

That mindless woman playing the race card was bad enough. I'm so tired of the victim being blamed, of everything being blamed other than the perps.

I hope every one of these monsters is punished, I hope that they go through h*ll in prison. They are not animals. Animals would never behave in such a disgusting manner.

[Searchfortruth]

There is NOTHING our justice system can do to these perps that would be adequate payback for what they have done to this girl, who will live with this for the rest of her life. I guess the most I can hope for is that they get the same as they gave in prison.

[songline]

They said they did a "sweep of the campus" after the party. Not much of a sweep imo. One attendee also said there was a group of uninvited boys/men loitering outside the dance and admin and security were made aware of them. But she also said they didn't question them,ask for ID or otherwise investigate this group during the evening.
I know JBean...Often times what they say does not hold much water. Sweep how? when they were told that bigger boys were loitering and they did nothing :waitasec:
2 guards would have worked - not what was done. sweep means nothing. This is a horrific case, that did not have to be if LE did it the right way.
I do not trust LE in that entire area. and they say we have 10% unemployment....they need to hire more for the police force. So that BS excuses can not even come into the picture.

[songline]

There is NOTHING our justice system can do to these perps that would be adequate payback for what they have done to this girl, who will live with this for the rest of her life. I guess the most I can hope for is that they get the same as they gave in prison.
IMO the perpes should never see the light of day again, I do not care if they are 15 or 21 years of age. They are evil.

[songline]

Yes, Ironic since it occurred in Richmond, where the majority population is black!!! She's as bad as the family of the guy who shot the 4 cops in Oakland, defending him and also crying racism:razz:, e.g. not my poor innocent nephew who was arrested on a whim! (my words)

I am disgusted with people who use the race card; especially when they are doing something wrong, and then claim they are being apprehended due to race :waitasec:
Their race is no license to do wrong. :furious:

[believe09]

Snipped from the article above...
"but also worried counselors by trying too hard to please the school's bad boys."

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I don't give a flying fig WHAT kind of boys this girl tried to "please", SHE IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM of a horrific, disgusting attack.

That mindless woman playing the race card was bad enough. I'm so tired of the victim being blamed, of everything being blamed other than the perps.

I hope every one of these monsters is punished, I hope that they go through h*ll in prison. They are not animals. Animals would never behave in such a disgusting manner.

And thus the blame the victim game begins....FWIW, stop right now. Reporters, school spokespeople and the like. Don't do it. Please do not start reporting how she brought this on herself....

[Garland]

And thus the blame the victim game begins....FWIW, stop right now. Reporters, school spokespeople and the like. Don't do it. Please do not start reporting how she brought this on herself....

Exactly. Also, I don't think that EmMomma is exactly blaming the victim. I, too, don't give a damn about whatever she was drinking, where or who she was hanging out with, etc., or not. What happened to her was more serious than that, & she is an innocent victim here, & that doesn't give them an excuse to do so. For that matter, I hope that those involved get locked up for a long, long time! And then they'll see what it's like to be raped. And shame on those that laughed & did nothing about it! I would've at least dialed 911 for the police about this. I can only hope that those that laughed & joked about it won't ever be put in the same situation that she did.

I can't believe what I just heard: the families of the suspects are defending these creeps!
they haven't shown the story on the news yet (abc7 s.f.) but I'm burning up already. What is wrong with people? :furious:

Actually I am editing this to say that there is a segment on a video posted previously that shows relatives denying that their child took part in this. They are denying that it even happened almost. Makes me so mad. What fairyland are they living in?
http://www.ktvu.com/video/21467972/index.html

And we wonder why kids like them become unruly & out of control doing heinous things & becoming a danger to society. Don't parents these days ever raise their children right & teach them right from wrong anymore? Whatever happened to holding them accountable?

Idiots. Just...idiots. I hope they don't ever breed again.:furious::banghead:

[sniperacer]

Snipped from the article above...
"but (the victim) also worried counselors by trying too hard to please the school's bad boys."

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I don't give a flying fig WHAT kind of boys this girl tried to "please", SHE IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM of a horrific, disgusting attack.

Personally, I would be very upset if my children hung out with the "wrong crowd" and/or went into areas they do not belong. But again, that is just me as a parent, based upon my experience growing up near LA gangs and violence.

But this is certainly not a lesson she deserves, because of her parents failure..

[believe09]

Exactly. Also, I don't think that EmMomma is exactly blaming the victim. I, too, don't give a damn about whatever she was drinking, where or who she was hanging out with, etc., or not. What happened to her was more serious than that, & she is an innocent victim here, & that doesn't give them an excuse to do so. For that matter, I hope that those involved get locked up for a long, long time! And then they'll see what it's like to be raped. And shame on those that laughed & did nothing about it! I would've at least dialed 911 for the police about this. I can only hope that those that laughed & joked about it won't ever be put in the same situation that she did.





Respectfully snipped-you are absolutely right, I do not believe Em was blaming the victim. I was calling out to the universe in the event that any of the reporters etc are reading here :blushing:-I am praying that they do not opt to take this route with this child. Rape is almost uniquely a crime where it is considered fair game to take shots at the victim and imply she was responsible for being raped....JMO.

[Garland]

Respectfully snipped-you are absolutely right, I do not believe Em was blaming the victim. I was calling out to the universe in the event that any of the reporters etc are reading here :blushing:-I am praying that they do not opt to take this route with this child. Rape is almost uniquely a crime where it is considered fair game to take shots at the victim and imply she was responsible for being raped....JMO.

Yeah. I very much agree with you. That's what also makes me sick. Reporters, media, etc. always trying to do whatever they can to blame innocent victims of such crimes. And doing them all for a quick buck. Just like in cases like the Victoria Lindsay where she was being beat up by a bunch of girls.

Society has just gone to hell in a handbasket.

[EmMomma]

I 100% WAS NOT blaming this little girl. Quite the opposite, it makes me SICK.
FWIW, her parents may not have even known that she was drawn to those types of boys.
By all accounts, she attended church, was a good student, etc.
So, so, so sad.
I'm praying for this little girl, her family...that they can heal.

[Columbo]

Personally, I would be very upset if my children hung out with the "wrong crowd" and/or went into areas they do not belong. But again, that is just me as a parent, based upon my experience growing up near LA gangs and violence.

But this is certainly not a lesson she deserves, because of her parents failure..

There must have been a "disconnect" somewhere. If the counselors saw that she was naively trying to please the wrong type of boy, they should have told the parents (?) . Who knows. No matter what, she is not guilty, she did NOT deserve any of this.

I don't think the counselor who said that the girl may have been trying to please the wrong crowd sometimes was trying to blame her, I bet she just didn't realize what impact her words might have. Of course, this information can and probably will be used against the poor girl in court. That makes me angry.

[Columbo]

Yes I did read that this morning, and I was furious. An area known to be problematic, they called this inevitable. :doh:

Inevitable and they did not assign a guard specifically for that area? that should have been assigned 24/7/365 - especially knowing there will be a party on that night, a couple of guards should have been placed near by - somebody should be sued.
I think her family is saying we need to focus on what we can do that is positive, and that is commendable at this difficult moment...But I hope they are not going to humbly walk away....This Town owes them big.
I am still banging my head at the on lookers....:sick:

You are so right. It's been a problem area of the school forever, apparently. Then when they said they were having lights installed and it would be accomplished "by April" :doh: ..But now I think they are actually speeding up the installation. DUH !!!

It's frightening that the myspace page of Cory Smith, the 15 year old who led her to the group of drinkers in that area, shows people posting angry, nasty, defensive statements regarding the "snitches". I hope it's a small minority with this sick attitude. But it's scary.

[PeteyGirl]

It is NOT blaming the victim to ask "what in the hell were you doing THERE with those people in the first place???"

A person SHOULD be able to walk through a crowd of rapists without being raped, or down an alley and not get beat up and mugged.

But there IS a shred of responsibility for putting YOURSELF in the line of fire.

I am speaking AS a victim of violence (domestic) who is hidden from her perp. There is NO HOPE for people like me unless we accept that OUR behavior has a relationship to the violence we experienced. Our behavior is not to BLAME for our injuries. Merely our proximity to the violent person. The power in accepting this "responsibility" is that we can get AWAY and STAY AWAY, keep ourselves safe with our own smarts.

It is a very delicate distinction for a victim of violence to separate our his/her "responsibility" and NO WHERE in there lies BLAME for the violence itself. That is entirely the perp's fault. But we got ourselves CLOSE to the perp, and in my case, I stayed around for more. My decision, entirely. I have no hope if I see myself as entirely victimized, because I want to do something in the FUTURE to prevent such a circumstance again. And that solution is seeing that I placed myself in danger. Though I deserved nothing of the abuse that happened, not one bit, and am not to blame, I stayed and took it for seven years. How to undo that? Take responsibility for MY part. Staying. Being there in the first place :) . It is freedom and power for the victim to accept his/her part, not BLAME.

[JBean]

It is NOT blaming the victim to ask "what in the hell were you doing THERE with those people in the first place???"

A person SHOULD be able to walk through a crowd of rapists without being raped, or down an alley and not get beat up and mugged.

But there IS a shred of responsibility for putting YOURSELF in the line of fire.

I am speaking AS a victim of violence (domestic) who is hidden from her perp. There is NO HOPE for people like me unless we accept that OUR behavior has a relationship to the violence we experienced. Our behavior is not to BLAME for our injuries. Merely our proximity to the violent person. The power in accepting this "responsibility" is that we can get AWAY and STAY AWAY, keep ourselves safe with our own smarts.

It is a very delicate distinction for a victim of violence to separate our his/her "responsibility" and NO WHERE in there lies BLAME for the violence itself. That is entirely the perp's fault. But we got ourselves CLOSE to the perp, and in my case, I stayed around for more. My decision, entirely. I have no hope if I see myself as entirely victimized, because I want to do something in the FUTURE to prevent such a circumstance again. And that solution is seeing that I placed myself in danger. Though I deserved nothing of the abuse that happened, not one bit, and am not to blame, I stayed and took it for seven years. How to undo that? Take responsibility for MY part. Staying. Being there in the first place :) . It is freedom and power for the victim to accept his/her part, not BLAME.
I totally agree and I understand what you are saying. I posted something almost exactly the same in another thread recently and it went over like a lead balloon. So I just want you to know i get it and I agree.

[ziggy]

Me too. People tell you it's dangerous to hang around a certain crowd or in certain areas then it's probably true. I heard from my Contracts professor who is a judge that he's recently been hearing expert testimony about how the judment capabilities of young people is formed much later than we thought - like about 24 years old.

Kids don't listen and there will ALWAYS be those "humans" who have nothing but a depraved heart so while TRUE, no one deserves that treatment ever, it's also true that bad guys will exist and it's best to stay away from them and lower your risk of getting hurt. Sad but true, and a very, very tragic lesson for her to learn.

[PeteyGirl]

I totally agree and I understand what you are saying. I posted something almost exactly the same in another thread recently and it went over like a lead balloon. So I just want you to know i get it and I agree.

It's a very fine distinction, but once you've made the distinction in your own mind, the gulf between "blaming the victim" and taking appropriate responsibility for putting yourself in the line of fire is HUGE and obvious.

To me, it disempowers the victim to remain purely a victim without any behavior on his/her own part in the victimization.

I think some people get a secondary gain out of victimhood, as if that gives a special status, and absolves them of any wrongdoing. It's not ABOUT "wrongdoing" on the part of the victim. Just bad choices, that can be chosen differently in the future. Mostly the "bad choices" are made in ignorance and fear and denial . . . but they are no more "to blame" for the abuse for the bad choices. That's the rub in my mind.

[gxm]

Yes. It's my job to teach my grandson that hot is ouch and not to touch the stove. And if he does by accident, it's not his fault. It's mine.

This young girl sounds like she was very naive. Naivete is not against the law. Gang rape is. And, trust me, I bet she has learned that lesson in spades. As a matter of fact, let's hope it's a lesson she can eventually overcome.

[jjenny]

Yes. It's my job to teach my grandson that hot is ouch and not to touch the stove. And if he does by accident, it's not his fault. It's mine.

This young girl sounds like she was very naive. Naivete is not against the law. Gang rape is. And, trust me, I bet she has learned that lesson in spades. As a matter of fact, let's hope it's a lesson she can eventually overcome.

Nobody is saying that anyone had a right to rape her. But a young female alone drinking at night with a bunch of young males is not a good idea, any way you look at it. And I am still not sure where her father was. The story went he was going to pick her up. When she didn't show up, one would think the father would have been looking for her, considering this allegedly went on for several hours.

[gxm]

Nobody is saying that anyone had a right to rape her. But a young female alone drinking at night with a bunch of young males is not a good idea, any way you look at it. And I am still not sure where her father was. The story went he was going to pick her up. When she didn't show up, one would think the father would have been looking for her?

All I'm saying is no one deserves to learn that lesson the way this poor girl did. No one.

Whether or not anyone thinks she made a wise choice, the person who didn't realize that not all boys are nice and respectful towards women should never have to discover the truth through two plus hours of gang rape. As I said, naivete is not illegal. Gang rape is. And it is not something we should assume all young men are capable of. We should assume that they have the decency to behave like human beings and not animals.

[jjenny]

All I'm saying is no one deserves to learn that lesson the way this poor girl did. No one.

Whether or not anyone thinks she made a wise choice, the person who didn't realize that not all boys are nice and respectful towards women should never have to discover the truth through two plus hours of gang rape. As I said, naivete is not illegal. Gang rape is. And it is not something we should assume all young men are capable of. We should assume that they have the decency to behave like human beings and not animals.

I don't think anyone should assume all young men are capable of this. But we know some are. I sure wouldn't be teaching my daughter that all young men are nice and respectful towards women.

[songline]

It is NOT blaming the victim to ask "what in the hell were you doing THERE with those people in the first place???"

A person SHOULD be able to walk through a crowd of rapists without being raped, or down an alley and not get beat up and mugged.

But there IS a shred of responsibility for putting YOURSELF in the line of fire.

I am speaking AS a victim of violence (domestic) who is hidden from her perp. There is NO HOPE for people like me unless we accept that OUR behavior has a relationship to the violence we experienced. Our behavior is not to BLAME for our injuries. Merely our proximity to the violent person. The power in accepting this "responsibility" is that we can get AWAY and STAY AWAY, keep ourselves safe with our own smarts.

It is a very delicate distinction for a victim of violence to separate our his/her "responsibility" and NO WHERE in there lies BLAME for the violence itself. That is entirely the perp's fault. But we got ourselves CLOSE to the perp, and in my case, I stayed around for more. My decision, entirely. I have no hope if I see myself as entirely victimized, because I want to do something in the FUTURE to prevent such a circumstance again. And that solution is seeing that I placed myself in danger. Though I deserved nothing of the abuse that happened, not one bit, and am not to blame, I stayed and took it for seven years. How to undo that? Take responsibility for MY part. Staying. Being there in the first place :) . It is freedom and power for the victim to accept his/her part, not BLAME.


ITA
but sometimes a 15 year old who is raised in a cocoon may not be able to decipher the difference.

from what I gather she was a good student, went to church; and at this age was starting to have interest in boys....

Maybe she was overprotected and did not have the understanding you speak of. And based on the fact that she wanted to be nice to the bad boys in school, I gather she had very poor self esteem.

At her age I went the other way when I had seen the bad boys, I too lived in a very funky area at that age. As a teen it was the bad boys who did protect me - nobody dared to mess with me...because the bad boys liked me. I did not shun them, I did say hi to them, I did give them the Homework assignment if asked, I did help them in class,
but I always went the other way not wanting to mix with them.
I was more afraid of my MOM then I was of them...LOL
she would have killed me if I hung out with any of them for 1 minute. So I was in NO cocoon, I knew it was not good to do.

I gather she was only 15 and lived a very clean cut life, but did not know any better.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

RICHMOND, Calif. -- A seventh suspect has been arrested in connection with the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a California high school homecoming dance.

Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan says a 21-year-old man from Richmond was arrested Tuesday morning on suspicion of rape, rape in concert with force and other charges that could lead to life in prison if convicted.

more here

http://www.sacbee.com/827/story/2302360.html

[gxm]

I don't think anyone should assume all young men are capable of this. But we know some are. I sure wouldn't be teaching my daughter that all young men are nice and respectful towards women.

Unfortunately, when young girls are raised around respectful men (fathers, uncles, brothers) it's all they know and they really don't have the experience that imbues caution. It's like my grandson and the stove. He's fearless because he doesn't have the knowledge wrought from experience to recognize the danger.

[PeteyGirl]

ITA
but sometimes a 15 year old who is raised in a cocoon may not be able to decipher the difference.

from what I gather she was a good student, went to church; and at this age was starting to have interest in boys....

Maybe she was overprotected and did not have the understanding you speak of. And based on the fact that she wanted to be nice to the bad boys in school, I gather she had very poor self esteem.

(snipped)



I know what it's like to encounter someone dangerous and literally NOT KNOW IT. I am still a very "face value" kind of person, and have only learned from my experience with my abuser to temper that simplicity with hard earned caution.

It's not so important that "she should have known" because most of the time, we need the direct experience to really BELIEVE the cautionary tales. A girl raised in a cocoon would have HEARD the cautionary tales but had no frame of reference to make them "real".

Now, sadly, she does :(

She is not to blame for her rape because she didn't listen to the cautionary tales. The rape is a consequence of her incaution and naivete, but she did not CAUSE herself to be raped. Again, that "fine" distinction which looks like the Gulf of Mexico from my perspective, anyway.

[Columbo]

I'm wondering why she was so anxious to please the bad boys (this was before the rape, and it must have been the ones who attended school with her)...per her counselor at school. Maybe they were the only boys who paid attention to her, and at her age, she was interested in exploring friendships with boys? That would be normal, I think--even though apparently the attention those creeps gave her (even before the rape) was rather ugly and mean. But she was too naive to realize that bad boys really can be evil ? It's all just such a pity. Because she was too compliant with them before, they saw her as a target on homecoming night. :furious:

[joga]

victim speaks for first time in a written statement read at vigil...

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/03/crimesider/entry5206544.shtml

[ebbie]

ITA
but sometimes a 15 year old who is raised in a cocoon may not be able to decipher the difference.

from what I gather she was a good student, went to church; and at this age was starting to have interest in boys....

Maybe she was overprotected and did not have the understanding you speak of. And based on the fact that she wanted to be nice to the bad boys in school, I gather she had very poor self esteem.

At her age I went the other way when I had seen the bad boys, I too lived in a very funky area at that age. As a teen it was the bad boys who did protect me - nobody dared to mess with me...because the bad boys liked me. I did not shun them, I did say hi to them, I did give them the Homework assignment if asked, I did help them in class,
but I always went the other way not wanting to mix with them.
I was more afraid of my MOM then I was of them...LOL
she would have killed me if I hung out with any of them for 1 minute. So I was in NO cocoon, I knew it was not good to do.

I gather she was only 15 and lived a very clean cut life, but did not know any better.

There is obviously something wrong when a large group of boys (I won't call them men) don't know right from wrong. One or two, maybe but dozens ready and willing to rape??:waitasec: Thats telling in itself.

I just don't find it respectful to blame the victim for being naive and trusting and well....a 15 year old girl!

Do we want 15 year old girls to have to grow up seasoned and hardened to all potential crimes? Carrying weapons, knowing all about sex, hanging with gangs for protection?

That is drawing focus away from the fact that rape is a crime.

[PeteyGirl]

I'm wondering why she was so anxious to please the bad boys (this was before the rape, and it must have been the ones who attended school with her)...per her counselor at school. Maybe they were the only boys who paid attention to her, and at her age, she was interested in exploring friendships with boys? That would be normal, I think--even though apparently the attention those creeps gave her (even before the rape) was rather ugly and mean. But she was too naive to realize that bad boys really can be evil ? It's all just such a pity. Because she was too compliant with them before, they saw her as a target on homecoming night. :furious:

It's as if the innocent, naive girls are the perfect compliment to the "bad boys". The naivety glosses over the outrageous behavior . . . it sees the behavior as "wrong" but doesn't register it as a potential danger. Mainly because no such danger has ever been experienced. No frame of reference. They are the perfect targets and they sort of "draw" each other together. A sweet, overly pleasing and compliant girl who overlooks bad behavior for the sake of some attention is a sitting duck.

I was so naive and needy (at the age of 33) that I justified my ex's bizarre behavior as "flukes" because he was so attentive and "loving". I was so naive that it never occurred to me I was witnessing the behavior of a "bad" person capable of evil acts. Bad people were always "out there somewhere" bothering other people lol. Not me. That's how sheltered *I* was, and what made me a perfect target.

[songline]

There is obviously something wrong when a large group of boys (I won't call them men) don't know right from wrong. One or two, maybe but dozens ready and willing to rape??:waitasec: Thats telling in itself.

I just don't find it respectful to blame the victim for being naive and trusting and well....a 15 year old girl!

Do we want 15 year old girls to have to grow up seasoned and hardened to all potential crimes? Carrying weapons, knowing all about sex, hanging with gangs for protection?

That is drawing focus away from the fact that rape is a crime.
Nobody was blaming a 15 year old...
Since you are quoting my post I will have to say - Don't stand on a soap box about that to me please.
YES there is something really wrong with that entire area...CC County is also where Jaycee Dugard was able to be hidden for 18 years...What is with LE there? what is with the moral code there? and WHY?

[songline]

victim speaks for first time in a written statement read at vigil...

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/03/crimesider/entry5206544.shtml

This is a very special beautiful family....In the face of evil they still take the high road :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

CONTRA COSTA COUNTY - now that is another story;
They do not deserve our claps or flowers, but sever reticule for being one of the worst LE in the Country. JMO

[songline]

I'm wondering why she was so anxious to please the bad boys (this was before the rape, and it must have been the ones who attended school with her)...per her counselor at school. Maybe they were the only boys who paid attention to her, and at her age, she was interested in exploring friendships with boys? That would be normal, I think--even though apparently the attention those creeps gave her (even before the rape) was rather ugly and mean. But she was too naive to realize that bad boys really can be evil ? It's all just such a pity. Because she was too compliant with them before, they saw her as a target on homecoming night. :furious:

Columbo: sometimes the parents that teach you to do all the right things are strict...
My Mom sure was. The only reason I did not get in any trouble was I was afraid of her, not the bad boys. LOL
Strict also fosters low self esteem....I pretended to be OK but deep inside I know I was different.
I later learned that my self esteem was not good.
Fortunately for me I used my Drama class to express my strengths and weaknesses. and to build some self esteem.
From what I am reading; this girl while a good student who went to church had to have self esteem issues. JMO

They came out with all positive messages to the community... YES they did take the high road...
But where is the outrage ???? It is almost unnatural.....:angel:

[Trino]

It is NOT blaming the victim to ask "what in the hell were you doing THERE with those people in the first place???"

A person SHOULD be able to walk through a crowd of rapists without being raped, or down an alley and not get beat up and mugged.

But there IS a shred of responsibility for putting YOURSELF in the line of fire.

I am speaking AS a victim of violence (domestic) who is hidden from her perp. There is NO HOPE for people like me unless we accept that OUR behavior has a relationship to the violence we experienced. Our behavior is not to BLAME for our injuries. Merely our proximity to the violent person. The power in accepting this "responsibility" is that we can get AWAY and STAY AWAY, keep ourselves safe with our own smarts.

It is a very delicate distinction for a victim of violence to separate our his/her "responsibility" and NO WHERE in there lies BLAME for the violence itself. That is entirely the perp's fault. But we got ourselves CLOSE to the perp, and in my case, I stayed around for more. My decision, entirely. I have no hope if I see myself as entirely victimized, because I want to do something in the FUTURE to prevent such a circumstance again. And that solution is seeing that I placed myself in danger. Though I deserved nothing of the abuse that happened, not one bit, and am not to blame, I stayed and took it for seven years. How to undo that? Take responsibility for MY part. Staying. Being there in the first place :) . It is freedom and power for the victim to accept his/her part, not BLAME.

If you send your child to a school where she's surrounded by thug life, who is she supposed to interact with?

[Columbo]

If you send your child to a school where she's surrounded by thug life, who is she supposed to interact with?

It's probably because of location and economics that she had to go to that high school--not choice. However if a parent knows that a school has a gang element and is in a dodgy neighborhood, they should be vigilant with their children regarding safety. NOT saying her parents were bad parents, they may have tried to do this. If her dad was picking her up after the dance that says a lot to me--some kids are just out roaming around with unknown people.

[ebbie]

ITA
but sometimes a 15 year old who is raised in a cocoon may not be able to decipher the difference.

from what I gather she was a good student, went to church; and at this age was starting to have interest in boys....

Maybe she was overprotected and did not have the understanding you speak of. And based on the fact that she wanted to be nice to the bad boys in school, I gather she had very poor self esteem.

At her age I went the other way when I had seen the bad boys, I too lived in a very funky area at that age. As a teen it was the bad boys who did protect me - nobody dared to mess with me...because the bad boys liked me. I did not shun them, I did say hi to them, I did give them the Homework assignment if asked, I did help them in class,
but I always went the other way not wanting to mix with them.
I was more afraid of my MOM then I was of them...LOL
she would have killed me if I hung out with any of them for 1 minute. So I was in NO cocoon, I knew it was not good to do.

I gather she was only 15 and lived a very clean cut life, but did not know any better.

Nobody was blaming a 15 year old...
Since you are quoting my post I will have to say - Don't stand on a soap box about that to me please.

Chill please.....Not everyone agrees that its admirable or smart to buddy up to the local thugs. You seem to be proud of it though.

btw....I was standing on a cocoon, not a soapbox.:crazy:

[songline]

Chill please.....Not everyone agrees that its admirable or smart to buddy up to the local thugs. You seem to be proud of it though.

btw....I was standing on a cocoon, not a soapbox.:crazy:

I have no buddies who are thugs...READ...I never said anything of that sort....
I said I helped them in the class, I also said I always stayed away from them, My Mom drilled that in.
"At her age I went the other way when I had seen the bad boys" this is from my quote.
"I did not shun them, I did say hi to them, I did give them the Homework assignment if asked"This is what I said.
Do not quote me.....When you are misleading what I said, That is NO cocoon when you are
quoting someone, it is a soapbox.

[adnoid]

Knock the sniping off now.

[songline]

Richmond police release 911 tape of gang-rape report
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13722179?nclick_check=1

911 tape released in Bay Area gang rape
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gang-rape6-2009nov06,0,4421957.story

[angelmom]

Amazing how, according to their families, all of those arrested just happened to be walking by and didn't really do anything. Incredible that LE couldn't manage to get one of the rapists, just a bunch of innocent boys on their way home...past the dumpsters!!! GMAB!

I guess DNA will be the nail in their coffin. Wonder what the families will say then?

[Columbo]

Amazing how, according to their families, all of those arrested just happened to be walking by and didn't really do anything. Incredible that LE couldn't manage to get one of the rapists, just a bunch of innocent boys on their way home...past the dumpsters!!! GMAB!

I guess DNA will be the nail in their coffin. Wonder what the families will say then?

Are all of the families of those arrested now claiming that their sons were "just walking by" ? I thought there was only one family claiming that--the family of Marcelles (sp?) Peter. I must have missed something (?) :waitasec:

[sniperacer]

I guess DNA will be the nail in their coffin.

Sorry, I have to ask this. For the sake of discussion, let's assuming there is "fluid" from each rapist. How do you do a DNA test in a gang rape? Did the "rape kit" collect 100% of the "fluid". Are they going to DNA test each "swimmer"? I see legal holes?

[lizzybeth]

Probably doesn't answer your question but in the Channon Christian, Christopher Newsome case there were more than one rapist. The ME was able to isolate each one's DNA and tell whether it was sperm or only semen. Two of the rapists shared the same mother.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

RICHMOND, Calif., Nov. 6 (UPI) -- A San Francisco-area teenager says one of the youths who allegedly gang-raped her outside a school dance had been a trusted friend, an investigator says.

Sgt. Lori Curran of the Richmond Police Department said Thursday the 16-year-old, identified only as Jane Doe, told investigators she knew some of the other assailants casually, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

"She did feel betrayed that the one she knew and trusted would let this happen to her," Curran said. "She had a sense of trust from the others she recognized from the neighborhood."


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/11/06/Teen-One-of-her-rapists-had-been-a-friend/UPI-98841257536559/

[Columbo]

article about the charges (read some of the comments) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/06/BAQ61AGCHC.DTL

This is what a friend of Elvis, the suspect, has to say. Just to give you an idea of the caliber of person these skanks hang out with...

http://highimjackie.tumblr.com/post/234075665/free-elvis-torrentes

[angelmom]

Are all of the families of those arrested now claiming that their sons were "just walking by" ? I thought there was only one family claiming that--the family of Marcelles (sp?) Peter. I must have missed something (?) :waitasec:

I don't know about "all". I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole after reading some of the articles where at least three of the defendants have someone denying or minimizing their involvement. Which is why I hope there is a ton of forensic evidence!


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/30/MNLE1ACE6J.DTL

Peter's family accused prosecutors of having racial motives. Peter is the only black suspect named in the case. Smith is white, and the other suspects are Latino.

Peter "didn't have anything to do with this," his aunt said. "He said everyone was just walking past, and he just kept moving when he saw something was going on.

"My nephew is scared," she added. "He is the one they've arrested who is black, and if they give my nephew a life sentence, I will sue Richmond. There is no way in hell I will see my nephew blamed in this because he is black." ...



Two female relatives of Ortega began to cry as he walked in. They declined to comment afterward, other than to say they didn't think he was guilty



http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/the_black_diaspora_news/13841

Morales' lawyer, Ernie Castillo, said he was still learning details about the case.
"I don't know what limited role, if any, my client played," Castillo said.



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gang-rape6-2009nov06,0,4421957.story


Dispatcher: "Is she on the school property?"

Caller: "She's in the back by the dumpsters."

[angelmom]

article about the charges (read some of the comments) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/06/BAQ61AGCHC.DTL

This is what a friend of Elvis, the suspect, has to say. Just to give you an idea of the caliber of person these skanks hang out with...

http://highimjackie.tumblr.com/post/234075665/free-elvis-torrentes

Nice. Add him to my list.

that stupid ass hoe just got what she asked for

[gxm]

article about the charges (read some of the comments) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/06/BAQ61AGCHC.DTL

This is what a friend of Elvis, the suspect, has to say. Just to give you an idea of the caliber of person these skanks hang out with...

http://highimjackie.tumblr.com/post/234075665/free-elvis-torrentes

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Too bad s/he can't be arrested and charged for being a heartless jacka$$.

Do we know yet which of the suspects was the "friend" who lured the victim into joining them?

[Trino]

I'm wondering why she was so anxious to please the bad boys (this was before the rape, and it must have been the ones who attended school with her)...per her counselor at school. Maybe they were the only boys who paid attention to her, and at her age, she was interested in exploring friendships with boys? That would be normal, I think--even though apparently the attention those creeps gave her (even before the rape) was rather ugly and mean. But she was too naive to realize that bad boys really can be evil ? It's all just such a pity. Because she was too compliant with them before, they saw her as a target on homecoming night. :furious:

I'm guessing you don't know much about Richmond. Good boys? IMO they would be hard to find at that school.

[JBean]

911 call

http://www.contracostatimes.com/bay-area-news/ci_13722180?nclick_check=1

People have passed by there, have been seeing her, but nobody wants to call the cops, so we decided to call," Margarita Vargas told the voice on the phone the night of Oct. 24.

[Trino]

911 call

http://www.contracostatimes.com/bay-area-news/ci_13722180?nclick_check=1

People have passed by there, have been seeing her, but nobody wants to call the cops, so we decided to call," Margarita Vargas told the voice on the phone the night of Oct. 24.

This is just great. While I applaud her for doing this, believe me, publishing her name is not a wise idea. She will receive threats, as will her brother-in-law. According to street law, she snitched.

[Columbo]

I don't know about "all". I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole after reading some of the articles where at least three of the defendants have someone denying or minimizing their involvement. Which is why I hope there is a ton of forensic evidence!


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/30/MNLE1ACE6J.DTL

Peter's family accused prosecutors of having racial motives. Peter is the only black suspect named in the case. Smith is white, and the other suspects are Latino.

Peter "didn't have anything to do with this," his aunt said. "He said everyone was just walking past, and he just kept moving when he saw something was going on.

"My nephew is scared," she added. "He is the one they've arrested who is black, and if they give my nephew a life sentence, I will sue Richmond. There is no way in hell I will see my nephew blamed in this because he is black." ...



Two female relatives of Ortega began to cry as he walked in. They declined to comment afterward, other than to say they didn't think he was guilty



http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/the_black_diaspora_news/13841

Morales' lawyer, Ernie Castillo, said he was still learning details about the case.
"I don't know what limited role, if any, my client played," Castillo said.



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gang-rape6-2009nov06,0,4421957.story


Dispatcher: "Is she on the school property?"

Caller: "She's in the back by the dumpsters."

Thanks, angelmom! I hadn't read about the relatives at the hearing. You are right. Not hyperbole.

[Columbo]

I'm guessing you don't know much about Richmond. Good boys? IMO they would be hard to find at that school.

I know a lot about Richmond but not about the students at RHS. I just hope that these evil ones are in the minority. A tiny minority.

[Columbo]

This is just great. While I applaud her for doing this, believe me, publishing her name is not a wise idea. She will receive threats, as will her brother-in-law. According to street law, she snitched.

I worry about her, too. There have been some nasty threats against the "snitches" posted on facebook or myspace or whatever...I wish she would have remained anonymous. She certainly is brave and moral.

[Columbo]

Nice. Add him to my list.

that stupid ass hoe just got what she asked for

Isn't that horrible? They don't even seem like human beings. What are they?

[Columbo]

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Too bad s/he can't be arrested and charged for being a heartless jacka$$.

Do we know yet which of the suspects was the "friend" who lured the victim into joining them?

bolded by me.

Yes--it was a 15 year old, Cory Smith. I think he turned himself in and was the first one under arrest.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

Posted: 12:45 pm PST November 11, 2009
Updated: 1:37 pm PST November 11, 2009

RICHMOND, Calif. -- The 21-year-old Richmond man who was arrested and then released in the homecoming gang rape case said Wednesday he was only trying to help the 16-year-old victim during the attack and tried to stop her attackers.

In his first television interview, Salvador Rodriguez told KTVU he was fearful of coming forward, but wanted to reveal the details of what happened in the darkened alley near Richmond High so the community would no longer look upon him as a “monster.”

“All I want is my name back,” Rodriguez told KTVU. “I want my life back. I want to be looked at as someone who tries to help, if someone needs help-- that I would give them the t-shirt off my back to help them out. And not, ‘Oh yeah, he’s a monster. He’ll strike again.'”

Rodriguez said he feared repercussions for speaking out. While he would not identify the six suspects charged in the case as gang members, he said the men associate with known gang members.

“I think about it (being the victim of retaliation) every single day,” he said. “I’m not scared of the case, I’m scared of the people.”

much more here

http://www.ktvu.com/news/21586679/detail.html

[Columbo]

<snip>

Posted: 12:45 pm PST November 11, 2009
Updated: 1:37 pm PST November 11, 2009

RICHMOND, Calif. -- The 21-year-old Richmond man who was arrested and then released in the homecoming gang rape case said Wednesday he was only trying to help the 16-year-old victim during the attack and tried to stop her attackers.

In his first television interview, Salvador Rodriguez told KTVU he was fearful of coming forward, but wanted to reveal the details of what happened in the darkened alley near Richmond High so the community would no longer look upon him as a “monster.”

“All I want is my name back,” Rodriguez told KTVU. “I want my life back. I want to be looked at as someone who tries to help, if someone needs help-- that I would give them the t-shirt off my back to help them out. And not, ‘Oh yeah, he’s a monster. He’ll strike again.'”

Rodriguez said he feared repercussions for speaking out. While he would not identify the six suspects charged in the case as gang members, he said the men associate with known gang members.

“I think about it (being the victim of retaliation) every single day,” he said. “I’m not scared of the case, I’m scared of the people.”

much more here

http://www.ktvu.com/news/21586679/detail.html

There are some questions about his story. He claims that he found her naked and she was frightened of him, but he told her he wasn't going to hurt her; then he put his shirt on her. The police say they didn't find this shirt.

I question his story, too. The police found her naked and comatose--she couldn't possibly have responded in any way to this young man.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/top-stories/ci_13757135

[angelmom]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/top-stories/ci_13757135?nclick_check=1

More than 60 people, many of them teens supporting the defendants, watched the latest court appearance for Cody Ray Smith, 15, of San Pablo; Ari Morales, 16, of San Pablo; Marcelles Peter, 17, of Pinole; Jose Carlos Montano, 18, of Richmond; Manuel Ortega, 19, of Richmond; and Elvis Josue Torrentes, 21, of Richmond. Prosecutors said the brutality of the crime led them to charge the juvenile suspects as adults.

BBM...I'm going to stick with my theory that there is really something wrong with this whole community until I am proven otherwise.

They don't want to be called animals? Then don't defend this waste of air! How about supporting the victim!

:furious::furious::furious:

[Trino]

http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_13695043?source=rss

LA Times article about the emphasis upon raising test scores vs. teaching moral values.

[Columbo]

http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_13695043?source=rss

Good LA Times article about the emphasis upon raising test scores vs. teaching moral values.

bolded by me.

Where did the writer of this L.A. Times article get the information that school employees observed this girl being raped and ignored it? I don't think that is true.

[Columbo]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/top-stories/ci_13757135?nclick_check=1

More than 60 people, many of them teens supporting the defendants, watched the latest court appearance for Cody Ray Smith, 15, of San Pablo; Ari Morales, 16, of San Pablo; Marcelles Peter, 17, of Pinole; Jose Carlos Montano, 18, of Richmond; Manuel Ortega, 19, of Richmond; and Elvis Josue Torrentes, 21, of Richmond. Prosecutors said the brutality of the crime led them to charge the juvenile suspects as adults.

BBM...I'm going to stick with my theory that there is really something wrong with this whole community until I am proven otherwise.

They don't want to be called animals? Then don't defend this waste of air! How about supporting the victim!

:furious::furious::furious:

Angelmom, I don't know how many teens were supporting these idiots, but the whole community is NOT like them. Unfortunately they are terrorists, domestic terrorists, who are trying to ruin and destroy everything in their paths. They create a lot of havoc.

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

Six suspects in the October gang rape of a 16-year-old girl outside the Richmond High School homecoming dance pleaded not guilty Tuesday morning in Contra Costa County Superior Court in Richmond

The suspects include San Pablo residents Cody Smith, 15, and Ari Morales, 16; Pinole resident Marcelles Peter, 17; and Richmond residents Manuel Ortega, 19, Jose Montano, 18, and Elvis Torrentes, 21.

....

All six defendants are scheduled to return to court Jan. 21 at 1:30 p.m. to set a date for a preliminary hearing.


more here

http://cbs5.com/local/richmond.gang.rape.2.1343350.html

[impatientredhead]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/12/23/BAQ41B8PSA.DTL

Witness in Richmond gang rape case vanishes

A 21-year-old man who said he feared for his safety after witnessing the gang rape of a Richmond girl outside a high school homecoming dance has been missing for more than two weeks, police said today.

Family members say they have not heard from Salvador Rodriguez Jr. since the evening of Dec. 7, when he went to a store in Richmond to pick up money that his mother had wired to him from Phoenix.

[not_my_kids]

Sorry, I have to ask this. For the sake of discussion, let's assuming there is "fluid" from each rapist. How do you do a DNA test in a gang rape? Did the "rape kit" collect 100% of the "fluid". Are they going to DNA test each "swimmer"? I see legal holes?

The samples can be separated. It's not easy, and it does degrade them, making for a less than ideal "one in 100 billion" result...but it can be done.

Sorry, no sources, save my court transcripts. And I'm not sharing those.

[mysticrose]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/12/23/BAQ41B8PSA.DTL

Witness in Richmond gang rape case vanishes

A 21-year-old man who said he feared for his safety after witnessing the gang rape of a Richmond girl outside a high school homecoming dance has been missing for more than two weeks, police said today.

Family members say they have not heard from Salvador Rodriguez Jr. since the evening of Dec. 7, when he went to a store in Richmond to pick up money that his mother had wired to him from Phoenix.

This is not good at all, I certainly hope none of those kids got a hold of him.
Man o man....

[JBean]

He called his mom and he is ok. I just heard it on KFI

[JBean]

Police seek witness in Richmond rape case; mom says he's OK

Salvador Rodriguez phoned his mom Wednesday afternoon. Said he was OK.
That greatly relieved Stephanie Gutierrez, who had last heard from him weeks ago

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14055945?nclick_check=1

[itsreenw]

The samples can be separated. It's not easy, and it does degrade them, making for a less than ideal "one in 100 billion" result...but it can be done.

Sorry, no sources, save my court transcripts. And I'm not sharing those.
DNA may not even be necessary for some of the suspects since several cell phones were used to video tape the incident. Police confiscated phones and the videos were used to identify participants/suspects.

[Texas Mist]

Seventh Suspect Sought In Richmond High Gang Rape

Posted: 2:45 pm PST January 15, 2010
Updated: 2:50 pm PST January 15, 2010


RICHMOND, Calif. -- Nearly six weeks after six other suspects were charged in the case, Richmond police Friday issued an arrest warrant for a 43-year-old man in connection with the gang rape of a female student outside the Richmond High homecoming dance.

Authorities were searching for John Crane Jr., 43, who was considered armed and dangerous. He was described as an African-American male, standing 5-11 and weighing 190 pounds. He has a tattoo saying "John John" on his chest.


more here

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22250088/detail.html

43 years old is certainly old enough to know better! :furious:

[kbl8201]

just saw this thread.
hope for humanity.............fading.............faster.
i cannot believe, beyond the no adult supervision, that no parents ever taught these kids how to do the right thing in the first place.
sickening

[songline]

Seventh Suspect Sought In Richmond High Gang Rape

Posted: 2:45 pm PST January 15, 2010
Updated: 2:50 pm PST January 15, 2010


RICHMOND, Calif. -- Nearly six weeks after six other suspects were charged in the case, Richmond police Friday issued an arrest warrant for a 43-year-old man in connection with the gang rape of a female student outside the Richmond High homecoming dance.

Authorities were searching for John Crane Jr., 43, who was considered armed and dangerous. He was described as an African-American male, standing 5-11 and weighing 190 pounds. He has a tattoo saying "John John" on his chest.


more here

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22250088/detail.html

43 years old is certainly old enough to know better! :furious:
I have not seen real news on this case in a very long time.
Thank You for this link.

Does anyone know how the 15 year old girl is doing???

[songline]

<snip>

Six suspects in the October gang rape of a 16-year-old girl outside the Richmond High School homecoming dance pleaded not guilty Tuesday morning in Contra Costa County Superior Court in Richmond

The suspects include San Pablo residents Cody Smith, 15, and Ari Morales, 16; Pinole resident Marcelles Peter, 17; and Richmond residents Manuel Ortega, 19, Jose Montano, 18, and Elvis Torrentes, 21.

....

All six defendants are scheduled to return to court Jan. 21 at 1:30 p.m. to set a date for a preliminary hearing.




more here

http://cbs5.com/local/richmond.gang.rape.2.1343350.html

BUMP

All six defendants are scheduled to return to court Jan. 21 at 1:30 p.m. to set a date for a preliminary hearing.
Next THURSDAY...

[Texas Mist]

Police arrest 7th suspect in homecoming gang rape

The Associated Press
Published: Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2010 - 10:06 pm

RICHMOND, Calif. -- A seventh suspect sought by police in the gang rape of a girl outside a Northern California homecoming dance has been arrested.

Richmond police Sgt. Bisa French said 43-year-old John Crane Jr. walked into the police station and turned himself in without incident Tuesday evening.

French said Crane was being held on $100,000 bail on suspicion of felony sexual assault.

Investigators identified Crane last week as a suspect in the Oct. 24 sexual assault of a 16-year-old girl outside Richmond High School. Police describe him as an ex-con with a history of violent crime.


more here

http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/2474468.html

[lizzybeth]

Are you kidding me??? A forty-three year old man participated in this horrendous crime? I don't why it shocks me but it does.

Thank you for posting the update.

[songline]

January 21 came and left and we hard no news?
They were due in court.....

whats up with the legal system :furious:

[Ladybass0711]

SACRAMENTO /California Newswire/ — Responding to the brutal gang rape of a minor in Richmond, California, Assembly member Pedro Nava’s (D-Santa Barbara) ‘fast tracked’ legislation, Assembly Bill 984, the “Witness Responsibility Act,” which holds witnesses accountable for failing to report a rape or murder to authorities, passed from the State Assembly today on a bipartisan vote. The measure now goes to the State Senate for consideration

http://californianewswire.com/2010/01/27/CNW6556_212114.php

[kirsty]

Just came apone this - OMG that poor girl, I so hope justice is done

[lizzybeth]

Anyone have any updates?

[songline]

Anyone have any updates?

On the bottom of the link is the next date:

The next hearing is set for Feb. 25.
http://www.kgw.com/news/national/82324162.html

[Texas Mist]

Seventh Suspect In Homecoming Gang Rape Pleads Not Guilty

Posted: 5:13 pm PST February 3, 2010
Updated: 5:29 pm PST February 3, 2010

RICHMOND, Calif. -- The seventh suspect charged in the alleged gang rape of a girl outside of a Richmond High School homecoming dance has entered a plea.

John Crane Jr. pleaded not guilty Wednesday to forcible rape in concert and a special allegation that makes him eligible for life in prison if convicted.

The 43-year-old Crane is being held on $100,000 bail.

more here

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22457809/detail.html

[songline]

Seventh Suspect In Homecoming Gang Rape Pleads Not Guilty

Posted: 5:13 pm PST February 3, 2010
Updated: 5:29 pm PST February 3, 2010

RICHMOND, Calif. -- The seventh suspect charged in the alleged gang rape of a girl outside of a Richmond High School homecoming dance has entered a plea.

John Crane Jr. pleaded not guilty Wednesday to forcible rape in concert and a special allegation that makes him eligible for life in prison if convicted.

The 43-year-old Crane is being held on $100,000 bail.

more here

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22457809/detail.html

Texas Mist :)
Lets tell them to stop recycling news and give us real news....I want to see them bury those SOBs
who hurt that poor girl, and make those who just watched Pay dearly too. :furious:

We did not really expect him to plead any other way.
but I would not mind castrating those basmards.