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LaWanda
11-17-2009, 05:44 PM
We are at 37 pages on the last one. Lets continue here.

Thanks!

#4 - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91333&page=1

dangrsmind
11-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Some interesting things about Peter Levenda...

In addition to his books about conpsiracy theory, Levenda is thought by some to be the author of the so called Simon Necronomicon. The Simon Necronomicon is referenced by SickTanick as one of his occult influences and this is the text that includes the evocation of Pazuzu.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 06:35 PM
Some interesting things about Peter Levenda...

In addition to his books about conpsiracy theory, Levenda is thought by some to be the author of the so called Simon Necronomicon. The Simon Necronomicon is referenced by SickTanick as one of his occult influences and this is the text that includes the evocation of Pazuzu.

It is an excellent piece of work and having read all of Levenda's book's as well as those attributed to "Simon" there are too many textual and writing similarities IMO for me to consider anyone but Levenda as the author.


FWIW a great place to start for those wanting to learn more about this subject is:

The Magus Book 1 & 2: A Complete System of Occult Philosophy



DM have you ever heard of or read any books by Savitri Devi Mukherji which is another name/pen name for the French writer Maximiani Portaz. She was known as "Hitler's Priestess." Pretty heavy stuff especially the book: The Lightening and The Sun. I had that book confiscated from me when I entered Canada a few years back on a business trip, I took it with me to read on the flight and Candadian customs were none to happy with me having it and interrogated me for about an hour as to why I was reading such "subversive material." I told them I was a Jew so there was no need to worry I was just brushing up on the enemy lol. They wouldnt give the book back and indicated it was banned in Canada at the time.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 06:56 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/17/BAMR1AL5ND.DTL

This is an interesting case and thanks to the person on the other thread who shared it with us. Here we have a black woman convicted of beating and killing her young son, in the deep south of VA and she ended up getting NG by reason of criminal insanity. So maybe there is a chance for Sam after all. You would think they would have thrown the book at this woman yet she was able to get off after 3 doctors testified she was not responsible for her actions and was unable to control herself.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 07:00 PM
From the end of the other thread Charlie Chan writes:


I dispute the claim that this is Meth related. I spent tons of time with Meth folks. This isn't even close. Meth folks don't even know who Jesus is .A truly messed up crank addict is much more extreme than any of these horrorcore people. The girls could not possibly have been invovled with Meth. Neither could Sam. Trust me -this is not a Meth issue.

I dont think Sam was on meth, way too calm for that, in fact all reports are that Sam wasnt much of a drug user and didnt even smoke much pot although he was known to drink a bit. I do, however, believe firmly there is a lot of meth use in the horrorcore community itself. I am a bit of a student of meth related crime so it is a big interest of mine also, the stuff is bad news and I have seen some pretty crazy **** when it comes to meth abuse.

dangrsmind
11-17-2009, 07:49 PM
It is an excellent piece of work and having read all of Levenda's book's as well as those attributed to "Simon" there are too many textual and writing similarities IMO for me to consider anyone but Levenda as the author.


FWIW a great place to start for those wanting to learn more about this subject is:

The Magus Book 1 & 2: A Complete System of Occult Philosophy



DM have you ever heard of or read any books by Savitri Devi Mukherji which is another name/pen name for the French writer Maximiani Portaz. She was known as "Hitler's Priestess." Pretty heavy stuff especially the book: The Lightening and The Sun. I had that book confiscated from me when I entered Canada a few years back on a business trip, I took it with me to read on the flight and Candadian customs were none to happy with me having it and interrogated me for about an hour as to why I was reading such "subversive material." I told them I was a Jew so there was no need to worry I was just brushing up on the enemy lol. They wouldnt give the book back and indicated it was banned in Canada at the time.

The Magus I have (well Agrippa actually) and I referenced it previously somewhere here. As far as Mukherji, yes I am aware of her but no I have not read her book.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 08:39 PM
Bump...new thread here.

dangrsmind
11-17-2009, 09:00 PM
From the end of the other thread Charlie Chan writes:



I dont think Sam was on meth, way too calm for that, in fact all reports are that Sam wasnt much of a drug user and didnt even smoke much pot although he was known to drink a bit. I do, however, believe firmly there is a lot of meth use in the horrorcore community itself. I am a bit of a student of meth related crime so it is a big interest of mine also, the stuff is bad news and I have seen some pretty crazy **** when it comes to meth abuse.

In general I'd agree, and if meth was involved it probably is recent heavy use not a longer term problem. Possibly some bad chemicals involved. Also, some people seem to have very strong reactions to this chemical in the short term for unknwon reasons, and there can be major personality and facial changes over a period as short as 2-3 months.

Here's some examples of people that had strong short term reactions to meth:

6288
6289

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 09:55 PM
In general I'd agree, and if meth was involved it probably is recent heavy use not a longer term problem. Possibly some bad chemicals involved. Also, some people seem to have very strong reactions to this chemical in the short term for unknwon reasons, and there can be major personality and facial changes over a period as short as 2-3 months.

Here's some examples of people that had strong short term reactions to meth:

6288
6289



Meth is the worst thing I have ever seen in my life what it does to people...it is just evil.

gxm
11-17-2009, 10:14 PM
From the end of the other thread Charlie Chan writes:



I dont think Sam was on meth, way too calm for that, in fact all reports are that Sam wasnt much of a drug user and didnt even smoke much pot although he was known to drink a bit. I do, however, believe firmly there is a lot of meth use in the horrorcore community itself. I am a bit of a student of meth related crime so it is a big interest of mine also, the stuff is bad news and I have seen some pretty crazy **** when it comes to meth abuse.

ITA. IMO, Sam's weight loss would most likely be attributed to depression. Not bathing (one of Sam's traits) is also a symptom of depression. IMO Sam is a kid who desperately needed something good, some light, to enter his life. He may have hoped that Emma could be this light. And her rejection sent him into a descent of rage.

ETA: BTW, Pax, when I said that Sam wasn't in love with Emma, I was using my concept of love which doesn't include killing the person you love. Our culture is awash in the commodification of women and many men see women as a thing to be owned. I do agree that Sam probably wanted to have/own the pretty and popular Emma. But IMO this is not love.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 10:25 PM
ITA. IMO, Sam's weight loss would most likely be attributed to depression. Not bathing (one of Sam's traits) is also a symptom of depression. IMO Sam is a kid who desperately needed something good, some light, to enter his life. He may have hoped that Emma could be this light. And her rejection sent him into a descent of rage.

ETA: BTW, Pax, when I said that Sam wasn't in love with Emma, I was using my concept of love which doesn't include killing the person you love. Our culture is awash in the commodification of women and many men see women as a thing to be owned. I do agree that Sam probably wanted to have/own the pretty and popular Emma. But IMO this is not love.

I agree I dont think he loved her in the way you and I love our loved ones, but I do think he was smitten with her, certainly head over heels yet likely in an unhealthy, twisted and likely co-dependent manner since that is all he knew being that his home life, according to his sister, was not full of love, support and affection.

thesaint
11-17-2009, 10:34 PM
Preliminary hearing on January 11th, likely information will begin leaking out then and thereafter as the prosecution begins sharing more of what they have with the defense.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 10:39 PM
Lets talk about JURY SELECTION who does the prosecution want on that jury?

Who does the defense want on that jury?

Who is most likely to feel sympathtic towards Sam?

Minorities, black males or females?
Older while males or females?
Educated or uneducated folks?
Christians or non christian/atheist/pagan etc?

I think the prosecution will favor older white christian females and the defense will want young adult or middle aged college graduates with no religious affiliation as these types will be less prone to making rash emotional decisions. Minorities could go either way, they may not respect a white boy trying to rap, for example. Divoriced males may be sympathetic towards Sam, perhaps understanding the feeling of rejection etc. Its a college town but I dont know how long a student must be a resident before they are required to serve on a jury, students could go either way, Debra was a professor afterall but they are also more likely to understand Sam's lifestyle and the culture that he was part of.

CharlieChan
11-17-2009, 10:50 PM
The old mugshot that Native Girl posted of Shirm's moms accused killer is a perfect example of a meth freak. BTW--He's still in the NM prison system on drug charges. You can see his new mugshot if you do a NM inmate locator search. He looks a lot mellower these days--(It's pretty hard to find meth in the can--LOL).

thesaint
11-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Regarding sycko sam's music, for the tracks he already put out before this, Sam--as far as one can tell--only provided the words and vocal track. which he then handed off to a more musically inclined internet-friend who put Sam's words\vocals to beats and thus created the final song.

This sort of division of creative labor is all over the horrorcore and related scenes. ICP themselves relied on produce Mike Clark to create the actual beats and music for almost all of their albums.

So it'd be fairly easy for Sam to record his vocals inside prison, even into an analog tape recorder or small digital recorder, and send those out to whomever in the free world to put to music.

gxm
11-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Lets talk about JURY SELECTION who does the prosecution want on that jury?

Who does the defense want on that jury?

Who is most likely to feel sympathtic towards Sam?

Minorities, black males or females?
Older while males or females?
Educated or uneducated folks?
Christians or non christian/atheist/pagan etc?

I think the prosecution will favor older white christian females and the defense will want young adult or middle aged college graduates with no religious affiliation as these types will be less prone to making rash emotional decisions. Minorities could go either way, they may not respect a white boy trying to rap, for example. Divoriced males may be sympathetic towards Sam, perhaps understanding the feeling of rejection etc. Its a college town but I dont know how long a student must be a resident before they are required to serve on a jury, students could go either way, Debra was a professor afterall but they are also more likely to understand Sam's lifestyle and the culture that he was part of.

Unfortunately, unless they move the trial to another location, I don't see that they'll find many prospective jurors who may be sympathetic toward Sam. It's just not very likely that they'll find any young and jilted horrorcore fans in Farmville.

Further, the fact that his "rage" was unleashed on more than just the object of his affection will be problematic in the sympathy department. By the time the father arrived Sam had at least a day to cool off. At a minimum, the murder of Emma's parents will be perceived as cold blooded and not in keeping with a crime of passion.

If the attorney doesn't get a change of venue then he's not doing his job. Out of the area, IMO, Sam's best jury bet lies with those who can rationalize domestic violence. If online conversations are brought into evidence, the attorney can paint Emma as a tease. After all, her online missives were way over the top, and the sad truth is that there are some folks who cling to the "she asked for it" meme. Still, it will be hard to wrap the other murders around Emma's actions. If that is the motive, then Mel, Debra and Mark are, truly, innocent bystanders and IMO no jury will believe that they deserved to die.

AndresEscobar
11-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Regarding sycko sam's music, for the tracks he already put out before this, Sam--as far as one can tell--only provided the words and vocal track. which he then handed off to a more musically inclined internet-friend who put Sam's words\vocals to beats and thus created the final song.

This sort of division of creative labor is all over the horrorcore and related scenes. ICP themselves relied on produce Mike Clark to create the actual beats and music for almost all of their albums.

So it'd be fairly easy for Sam to record his vocals inside prison, even into an analog tape recorder or small digital recorder, and send those out to whomever in the free world to put to music.


Usually producers provide a track and then the artist raps over them.

I guess syko could record vocal lines on an analog or digital recorder. He'd need a metronome too, and it would sound really terrible (even worse than his studio tracks sound). Someone could take this and try to somehow make a cohesive rap song out of it. But, would there be demand for this?

thesaint
11-17-2009, 11:22 PM
Could possibly see the prosecutor having a separate trial for Mark's murder and having that trial be the first (and possibly the only?).

If for no other reason than evidentiary and timing--they have Sam there at the house the day Mark was killed. They have a timeline of when Mark last spoke with his mother and Melanie's mother and with multiple witnesses--police officers--who saw Sam at the house as well as Melanie's mother's phone conversations with Sam that day.

A possible sticking point would be the ability to introduce evidence related to the other 3 murders etc.

Melanie's mother's testimony should be very interesting. She seems to have had the most contact with Sam and even with the girls over the days between returning from Michigan and the end.

thesaint
11-17-2009, 11:26 PM
Yeah, he'd need some sort of primitive beat machine. I believe the way ICP worked was to record their raps initially over skeletal, simple beats and then Clark would then take those vocals and and the basic beat pattern and build the final track around that.

I'm guessing Sam used the same sort of system for his current tracks--vocals recorded in his bedroom to a click-track / simple beat, which he then sent off to a friend to build the actual track around.

AndresEscobar
11-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Unfortunately, unless they move the trial to another location, I don't see that they'll find many prospective jurors who may be sympathetic toward Sam. It's just not very likely that they'll find any young and jilted horrorcore fans in Farmville.

Further, the fact that his "rage" was unleashed on more than just the object of his affection will be problematic in the sympathy department. By the time the father arrived Sam had at least a day to cool off. At a minimum, the murder of Emma's parents will be perceived as cold blooded and not in keeping with a crime of passion.

If the attorney doesn't get a change of venue then he's not doing his job. Out of the area, IMO, Sam's best jury bet lies with those who can rationalize domestic violence. If online conversations are brought into evidence, the attorney can paint Emma as a tease. After all, her online missives were way over the top, and the sad truth is that there are some folks who cling to the "she asked for it" meme. Still, it will be hard to wrap the other murders around Emma's actions. If that is the motive, then Mel, Debra and Mark are, truly, innocent bystanders and IMO no jury will believe that they deserved to die.

I agree mostly. Except, the attorney doesn't really have the final say about whether the venue gets changed.

The DC sniper kid got the venue change, so I imagine Sam's trial might get moved to the DC burbs area.

You gotta realize, though, Sam allegedly did the worst thing you could possibly do: killing young, white women.

PAXIMUS
11-17-2009, 11:28 PM
Usually producers provide a track and then the artist raps over them.

I guess syko could record vocal lines on an analog or digital recorder. He'd need a metronome too, and it would sound really terrible (even worse than his studio tracks sound). Someone could take this and try to somehow make a cohesive rap song out of it. But, would there be demand for this?

FWIW Charlie Manson has recorded several entire albums since he has been in prison.

AndresEscobar
11-17-2009, 11:29 PM
Yeah, he'd need some sort of primitive beat machine. I believe the way ICP worked was to record their raps initially over skeletal, simple beats and then Clark would then take those vocals and and the basic beat pattern and build the final track around that.

I'm guessing Sam used the same sort of system for his current tracks--vocals recorded in his bedroom to a click-track / simple beat, which he then sent off to a friend to build the actual track around.

Yeah, they might do this for demos, but they would a final vocal track with the finished production.

AndresEscobar
11-17-2009, 11:41 PM
FWIW Charlie Manson has recorded several entire albums since he has been in prison.

fair enough. Though, I think Manson's mythical status eclipses Sams to where his fans would listen to awful quality music.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 12:14 AM
The old mugshot that Native Girl posted of Shirm's moms accused killer is a perfect example of a meth freak. BTW--He's still in the NM prison system on drug charges. You can see his new mugshot if you do a NM inmate locator search. He looks a lot mellower these days--(It's pretty hard to find meth in the can--LOL).

The point is that people can go from fairly normal in appearance and behavior to bat **** crazy meth heads with oozing sores on their face in just a few months. Not everyone has these rapid changes in appearance but most people lose weight or have skin problems of some sort. Some people report being addicted to methamphetamine after a single use.

FYI, I did a fairly detailed research project on facial changes due to methamphetamine use about a year ago so I looked at a lot of faces like this...

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 12:15 AM
Yeah, he'd need some sort of primitive beat machine. I believe the way ICP worked was to record their raps initially over skeletal, simple beats and then Clark would then take those vocals and and the basic beat pattern and build the final track around that.

I'm guessing Sam used the same sort of system for his current tracks--vocals recorded in his bedroom to a click-track / simple beat, which he then sent off to a friend to build the actual track around.

That's my understanding of how it is done in general.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 12:21 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/17/BAMR1AL5ND.DTL

This is an interesting case and thanks to the person on the other thread who shared it with us. Here we have a black woman convicted of beating and killing her young son, in the deep south of VA and she ended up getting NG by reason of criminal insanity. So maybe there is a chance for Sam after all. You would think they would have thrown the book at this woman yet she was able to get off after 3 doctors testified she was not responsible for her actions and was unable to control herself.

I think you'd have to review the medical testimony to see how it applies to Sam. In this horrific case, the accused was found to suffer from paranoid delusions and was determined to be incapable of understanding the nature and consequences of her actions by three psychologists. Sam's attorney is going to have to show that he suffered from similar delusions and doesn't know right from wrong.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 12:24 AM
For Pax...

This is a pretty amusing short article on Simon=Levenda: http://www.nypress.com/article-7663-the-doom-that-came-to-chelsea.html

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 12:45 AM
For Pax...

This is a pretty amusing short article on Simon=Levenda: http://www.nypress.com/article-7663-the-doom-that-came-to-chelsea.html

Great read and thanks for sharing, I dig that sort of stuff and hadnt seen that article before surprisingly.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 12:57 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/17/BAMR1AL5ND.DTL

This is an interesting case and thanks to the person on the other thread who shared it with us. Here we have a black woman convicted of beating and killing her young son, in the deep south of VA and she ended up getting NG by reason of criminal insanity. So maybe there is a chance for Sam after all. You would think they would have thrown the book at this woman yet she was able to get off after 3 doctors testified she was not responsible for her actions and was unable to control herself.
Think that was Richmond, Calif............

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 12:59 AM
Think that was Richmond, Calif............

Hey you may be right! I think I over-looked that important little detail and it does make more sense now!

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 01:11 AM
Would Oxy make you crazy like meth? Remember they found oxy in the car.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:13 AM
Think that was Richmond, Calif............

Yes, the City of Richmond not to be confused with the Richmond District of San Francisco.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:14 AM
Would Oxy make you crazy like meth? Remember they found oxy in the car.

I only know one person that had a problem with Oxycodone and it made him pretty mellow actually.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:21 AM
This is interesting...

I did a Google blog search for "SickTanick" and I found this:

6298

http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=sicktanick

Turns out that someone claiming to be Mark Kropidlowski made both the "SKR are terrorists" blog and the "satanic ritual blog".

See http://horror-core.blogspot.com/ and http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:23 AM
So this guy is posing as PAUL CALCAGNO!?


Now we all need to do some sleuthing on Mark Kropidlowski and find out what his agenda is and why he is posing as Calcagno.

Post your findings here.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 01:25 AM
If in a sealed up room, someone put clean air machines and lot of scented candles around the people they killed what would you think about that?

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:25 AM
A Google search for Mark Kropidlowski turns up some weird hits:

http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/1998/06/08/smallb2.html
http://www.aegis.com/news/ap/2004/AP041263.html
...

Seems like this guy runs a crime scene clean up company?

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:28 AM
If in a sealed up room, someone put clean air machines and lot of scented candles around the people they killed what would you think about that?

Seems like something someone might do in a lame attempt to cover the smell of rotting corpses.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:31 AM
More here on "Mark":

http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Mark+Kropidlowski%22&btnG=Search+Blogs

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:38 AM
More here on "Mark":

http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Mark+Kropidlowski%22&btnG=Search+Blogs

Is it me or does this Mark character seem a few fries short of a happy meal?

VERY interesting that he runs a crime scene cleanup business...

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:41 AM
He has a ****load of blogs calling various people and groups terrorists, nazis, KKK, satanists.

I wonder what this guys deal is?

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:44 AM
A Google search for Mark Kropidlowski turns up some weird hits:

http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/1998/06/08/smallb2.html
http://www.aegis.com/news/ap/2004/AP041263.html
...

Seems like this guy runs a crime scene clean up company?

Interesting that the one article says his company cleans up METH LABS, I wonder if he is dipping in to the leftovers, sure sounds like a whackjob in his blogs assuming this is the same fellow.

LoveVA
11-18-2009, 01:47 AM
I agree mostly. Except, the attorney doesn't really have the final say about whether the venue gets changed.

The DC sniper kid got the venue change, so I imagine Sam's trial might get moved to the DC burbs area.

You gotta realize, though, Sam allegedly did the worst thing you could possibly do: killing young, white women.

And a preacher. And a teacher. And blamed it on Jesus. He came from California to Farmville, Va., met up w/ an underage girl who he met on the internet, is a satanic rapper...it's pretty mind boggling when you think about it. Suicide really. I don't see this kid living through the next decade. I know several people who are normally against the death penalty who want him dead. Unless he pleads guilty and they take it off the table, but this has horrified everyone so badly I don't see them doing that.

They'll have a venue change, but I don't know about to the DC burbs. It is completely different there than any other part of the state (much more liberal) and I think it would be too complicated. I am still thinking VA Beach or Roanoke, mabye Fredricksburg area. It won't matter though, b/c it is all Virginia. Unless something is really screwed up in the trial, he will get the death penalty. I am fairly certain.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:48 AM
Interesting that the one article says his company cleans up METH LABS, I wonder if he is dipping in to the leftovers, sure sounds like a whackjob in his blogs assuming this is the same fellow.

This "Mark" works in a toy store: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-7472149.html...

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 01:50 AM
Aftermath was the cleanup ppl for the Kelly home.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:51 AM
This "Mark" works in a toy store: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-7472149.html...
I think our boy is the crime scene cleanup dude, it just fits.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:54 AM
if in a sealed up room, someone put clean air machines and lot of scented candles around the people they killed what would you think about that?

Are you suggesting Sam did this? We do know he bought some candles...

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 02:06 AM
Are you suggesting Sam did this? We do know he bought some candles...
hypothetically, how this would play out with the defense? Would this make it worse for Sam or make him seem insane?

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 02:17 AM
hypothetically, how this would play out with the defense? Would this make it worse for Sam or make him seem insane?
Oh it definitely makes an insanity plea much much more difficult if he did that, it clearly shows he was trying to cover up the smell. The main argument in favor of insanity IMO would be that he was able to hang out with the bodies for several days and not be bothered by the smell etc. This indicates otherwise if what you are suggesting is true.

claudicici
11-18-2009, 02:19 AM
I think our boy is the crime scene cleanup dude, it just fits.

...."mark" sells "zombie art" and his email is zombie something....

claudicici
11-18-2009, 02:20 AM
hypothetically, how this would play out with the defense? Would this make it worse for Sam or make him seem insane?

I'd say worse for sam...it would be insane if the smell didn't bother him...

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 02:30 AM
I'd say worse for sam...it would be insane if the smell didn't bother him...

Indeed.

blouAngel
11-18-2009, 05:56 AM
Think that was Richmond, Calif............

Even Richmond, VA hardly qualifies as "deep south." Anyone who comes out to Farmville even expecting that is going to be a bit disappointed. There isn't even much tobacco farming anymore.

wadahoot
11-18-2009, 06:12 AM
Farmvillian said (on the last thread)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAMR1AL5ND.DTL
Insanity wins...


This quote from the article especially offends me

A former defense attorney had argued that Moses (the Mom) was forced to take extreme measures because Raijon often urinated and defecated on himself at home and at school, acted out and once ran away from home.


well, if I had Pine-Sol poured on my genitals, I might poop and pee other than in the toilet ... I have NO doubt the child was in physical pain, and most likely had constant urinary tract infections, etc. And to say she was 'forced' to take extreme measures because *gasp* he acted out and ran away ... well, hell's bells, any child would given the trauma inflicted, both physical and mental.

I can't imagine HOW this egg and uterus donor was found not guilty due to insanity. She was capable of setting up motion-detectors, chose to starve the child (which is NOT done in a short amount of time), had to go to the store repeatedly to buy Pine-Sol, bought a surveillance camera, and took the time to tie him to the bed.

None of this happened overnight, and if she didn't think she was doing anything wrong, why did she restrain the poor child? And, while I'm at it ... where the he## was the school's employees. I'm all for families being responsible, and not putting the raising of children off on the teachers (see my previous posts), however, how could they not notice his beaten, starved, haunted little body?

I can't tell you how disgusted I am, that this happened to Rajjon AND that mom got off basically 'scott-free.' :furious:

I now return to being a WS poster, and not a mommy ... thank you for your attention :blushing:

coastal
11-18-2009, 06:28 AM
This is interesting...

I did a Google blog search for "SickTanick" and I found this:

6298

http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=sicktanick

Turns out that someone claiming to be Mark Kropidlowski made both the "SKR are terrorists" blog and the "satanic ritual blog".

See http://horror-core.blogspot.com/ and http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/
The comments on the "AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL "HORROR CORE" RAPPERS & THEIR FANATICS" blog (yikes) made for an interesting read:

http://horror-core.blogspot.com/

>>>snip (edited for polite company)

September 24, 2009 8:12 PM

Anonymous said...

**** YOU ALL.

We R A Family, We're Nothing Like No Pussy *** Satanic Cult.

SKR Haz Christian Fans, Juggalo Fans, DJ Fans & All.

D Girls Woodnt Ever ******* ****over Another Family Member. The Whole Razakel Claiming Hit Iza ******* Fib. It's ********.

Correct Me If I'm Wrong, but I Kno Christians R D 1s Dat Support Abortion, Which Horrorcore Mentions. They Allow Rapings From Actual Christian/Godly BS Cults. ****, They Give Up Their Own Kids 2 B Supposively Saved By God. **** Y'all.

Typical Christian ********, Bann, Illegalize Horrorcore, ******* Pussies. U think There's Really A Heaven N Hell. NO!

We R Not Sociopaths, We Welcome All. Satanists, Christian **** *******, ******s, Dykes, So called Normal People, Gang Members, Police, **** I've Gotten Several Cops From My City N2 SKR.

SKR Along With The Ramining REAL Horrorcore Family, Are Business People.

Just Like You ***** Enjoi Ur ******** ****** Rap, Ur ******* Lovey Dovey ******* ****, Rock, Metal, Whutever Itiz U Pigs Lissen 2, Horrorcore Is OUR Choice.

<<<snip
(my bold)

I thought the bolded part rang true.
I very much enjoyed reading LOLO's posts; Pax, you should tap LOLO for the book. Actually, the whole page is interesting. It's like reading through all these threads, but filtered down to texting length - and depth.

I hope the twitter version isn't next.

Also:

snip>>>

Anonymous said...
As a promoter of "SKR," I'd say Sam McCroskey did a great job!

October 16, 2009 12:01 PM

<<<snip

Yep.

blouAngel
11-18-2009, 06:54 AM
fair enough. Though, I think Manson's mythical status eclipses Sams to where his fans would listen to awful quality music.

Manson records are easy to come by. I'm not even interested and I've heard some.

I sort of ran out of space for vinyl, but in the mid 90's, I used to order from a few sources of industrial and avant garde music that had a few records featuring serial killers on their stocklists. One I remember in particular was a 4 song 45 with each track by a different murderer. I'm pretty sure John Wayne Gacy was one, I don't remember any of the rest. That isn't my thing, but I was surprised one day when in the middle of a conversation with a fairly normal woman that I rented a cottage from she told me she had a copy of it. Her boyfriend was a record collector with a huge collection, and I think they bought it as both a conversation piece and an investment.

Collectibles of any sort rarely provide much of a return on investment, but I found the site below while I was trying to see if I could find any of the records I remember. There does seem to be a market for that stuff. I could easily see some Syko Sam items being listed there.

http://www.murderauction.com/JEFFERY-DAHMER-AUTOGRAPH,name,147327,auction_id,auction_details

http://www.murderauction.com/NOVELTY-INFANT-ATTIRE--FUTURE-MASS-MURDERER-ONESY,name,147306,auction_id,auction_details

I also ran into this in my search. I haven't seen it in a while, but it's always fun. http://www.gothsinhotweather.com/ It makes me think of the SKR crew smoking at the rest stop in the video from their road trip to Michigan. Some things are best done in the dark.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 08:54 AM
Funny goth site, thanks for sharing, I needed a good chuckle.:crazy:

CharlieChan
11-18-2009, 08:59 AM
Yesterday Raz posted on one of Sick's Myspace pages the following--"i am Lizet Mordeno!
hear me roooooaaaaaarrrr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<333333333
:hangs up masters degree in the studio:
;)"----That can be seen at the following url--- http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr . Didn't someone on here comment the other day that they doubted that Raz has a masters degree in anything?

gxm
11-18-2009, 09:42 AM
(respectfully snipped)

You gotta realize, though, Sam allegedly did the worst thing you could possibly do: killing young, white women.

I really have to disagree with you on this. Killing women of any color is practically a sport in America.

And I seriously doubt that the reason most of us are following this case is because four white people were killed by a white kid. IMO, race is the most mundane aspect of this case.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Yesterday Raz posted on one of Sick's Myspace pages the following--"i am Lizet Mordeno!
hear me roooooaaaaaarrrr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<333333333
:hangs up masters degree in the studio:
;)"----That can be seen at the following url--- http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr . Didn't someone on here comment the other day that they doubted that Raz has a masters degree in anything?

So Lizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz is watching us eh? Hey Razzy!:crazy:


Tell that boyfriend of yours to come out of hiding and come answer our questions. He is probably too intimidated by us though. I would really love to see some of your little group grow a pair (in Razzy's case strap....oh nevermind) and join us here and talk to us.

The first question we have for Mr Shrim is:

Does this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/PazuzuDemonAssyria1stMilleniumBCE.jpg/380px-PazuzuDemonAssyria1stMilleniumBCE.jpg

Equal this:


http://www.truecrimediary.com/truecrimediary/uploads/Image/mccorsky.jpg

Wes
11-18-2009, 10:12 AM
Yesterday Raz posted on one of Sick's Myspace pages the following--"i am Lizet Mordeno!
hear me roooooaaaaaarrrr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<333333333
:hangs up masters degree in the studio:
;)"----That can be seen at the following url--- http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr . Didn't someone on here comment the other day that they doubted that Raz has a masters degree in anything?

I noticed she even has her own smilie here: :razz:

claudicici
11-18-2009, 10:28 AM
Farmvillian said (on the last thread)

This quote from the article especially offends me

well, if I had Pine-Sol poured on my genitals, I might poop and pee other than in the toilet ... I have NO doubt the child was in physical pain, and most likely had constant urinary tract infections, etc. And to say she was 'forced' to take extreme measures because *gasp* he acted out and ran away ... well, hell's bells, any child would given the trauma inflicted, both physical and mental.

I can't imagine HOW this egg and uterus donor was found not guilty due to insanity. She was capable of setting up motion-detectors, chose to starve the child (which is NOT done in a short amount of time), had to go to the store repeatedly to buy Pine-Sol, bought a surveillance camera, and took the time to tie him to the bed.

None of this happened overnight, and if she didn't think she was doing anything wrong, why did she restrain the poor child? And, while I'm at it ... where the he## was the school's employees. I'm all for families being responsible, and not putting the raising of children off on the teachers (see my previous posts), however, how could they not notice his beaten, starved, haunted little body?

I can't tell you how disgusted I am, that this happened to Rajjon AND that mom got off basically 'scott-free.' :furious:

I now return to being a WS poster, and not a mommy ... thank you for your attention :blushing:

...I totally agree ,that's why i barely post on the threads that involve children,it makes me soooo angry and upset...

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 10:44 AM
And a preacher. And a teacher. And blamed it on Jesus. He came from California to Farmville, Va., met up w/ an underage girl who he met on the internet, is a satanic rapper...it's pretty mind boggling when you think about it. Suicide really. I don't see this kid living through the next decade. I know several people who are normally against the death penalty who want him dead. Unless he pleads guilty and they take it off the table, but this has horrified everyone so badly I don't see them doing that.

They'll have a venue change, but I don't know about to the DC burbs. It is completely different there than any other part of the state (much more liberal) and I think it would be too complicated. I am still thinking VA Beach or Roanoke, mabye Fredricksburg area. It won't matter though, b/c it is all Virginia. Unless something is really screwed up in the trial, he will get the death penalty. I am fairly certain.

That's why I'm suggesting DC burbs is probably his best bet, the venue for which his lawyer should advocate.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 10:50 AM
Oh it definitely makes an insanity plea much much more difficult if he did that, it clearly shows he was trying to cover up the smell. The main argument in favor of insanity IMO would be that he was able to hang out with the bodies for several days and not be bothered by the smell etc. This indicates otherwise if what you are suggesting is true.

I wouldn't say this was the "main argument" in favor of insanity. I think the act itself is. But, there's a huge difference between scented candles and clean air machines. Scented candles is a pathetic attempt of disguising the scent of dead bodies. Clean air machines, on the other hand, are a lot more expensive, and perhaps a lot more believable in their efficacy.

Though, the insanity plea relates to at the time of the killings. This would certainly damage his case.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 10:51 AM
...I totally agree ,that's why i barely post on the threads that involve children,it makes me soooo angry and upset...

Crimes against children and animals really piss me off, I am against the DP but I would have no problem taking those kind of perps out and smacking them around a bit.

blouAngel
11-18-2009, 10:54 AM
Yesterday Raz posted on one of Sick's Myspace pages the following--"i am Lizet Mordeno!
hear me roooooaaaaaarrrr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<333333333
:hangs up masters degree in the studio:
;)"----That can be seen at the following url--- http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr . Didn't someone on here comment the other day that they doubted that Raz has a masters degree in anything?

I assumed she and her boy were reading this thread. It would be interesting to she what they've got to say for themselves, but I don't expect that will be happening. They aren't used to an audience of non-sycophants.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 10:57 AM
Farmvillian said (on the last thread)

This quote from the article especially offends me

well, if I had Pine-Sol poured on my genitals, I might poop and pee other than in the toilet ... I have NO doubt the child was in physical pain, and most likely had constant urinary tract infections, etc. And to say she was 'forced' to take extreme measures because *gasp* he acted out and ran away ... well, hell's bells, any child would given the trauma inflicted, both physical and mental.

I can't imagine HOW this egg and uterus donor was found not guilty due to insanity. She was capable of setting up motion-detectors, chose to starve the child (which is NOT done in a short amount of time), had to go to the store repeatedly to buy Pine-Sol, bought a surveillance camera, and took the time to tie him to the bed.

None of this happened overnight, and if she didn't think she was doing anything wrong, why did she restrain the poor child? And, while I'm at it ... where the he## was the school's employees. I'm all for families being responsible, and not putting the raising of children off on the teachers (see my previous posts), however, how could they not notice his beaten, starved, haunted little body?

I can't tell you how disgusted I am, that this happened to Rajjon AND that mom got off basically 'scott-free.' :furious:

I now return to being a WS poster, and not a mommy ... thank you for your attention :blushing:

It might offend you, but understand the duty of the attorney is to his client. He has to make every argument he can to advocate for his client. And, she's not getting off scott-free. She's going to spend a lot of time committed to a hospital.

Cases like this and Sam's evoke a visceral reaction that makes us want to see punishment through retribution. But there are other goals in the criminal justice punishment system that oftentimes get overlooked. Rehabilitation is as big a part as retribution or deterrence.

This woman is clearly sick. What she did is horrible. Spending time in jail isn't going to fix her mental illness. The hospital might help. In my experience, rehabilitation is important in cases like these.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:00 AM
Yesterday Raz posted on one of Sick's Myspace pages the following--"i am Lizet Mordeno!
hear me roooooaaaaaarrrr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<333333333
:hangs up masters degree in the studio:
;)"----That can be seen at the following url--- http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr . Didn't someone on here comment the other day that they doubted that Raz has a masters degree in anything?

This suggests to me that she's reading this board.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:03 AM
I really have to disagree with you on this. Killing women of any color is practically a sport in America.

And I seriously doubt that the reason most of us are following this case is because four white people were killed by a white kid. IMO, race is the most mundane aspect of this case.

I'll respectfully concede this point as I certainly don't want to get into any racially charged debate. Nor am I insinuating that the reason any of us are following this has anything to do with race.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:05 AM
re: Mark Kropidlowski

He seems to have a problem with the web group Anonymous also. Is he a scientologist?

claudicici
11-18-2009, 11:07 AM
Crimes against children and animals really piss me off, I am against the DP but I would have no problem taking those kind of perps out and smacking them around a bit.
.....a bit?

blouAngel
11-18-2009, 11:10 AM
That's why I'm suggesting DC burbs is probably his best bet, the venue for which his lawyer should advocate.

Requesting a change of venue is a wise move for his lawyer to make, but it's not quite so easy. He would probably fry in Alexandria for instance if found guilty. I'm thinking Richmond, or maybe East of there in Norfolk or VA Beach is his best trial venue. He certainly wants to avoid Lynchburg and probably Roanoke.

It's going to be a tricky thing no matter what, but the relative lack of news this story has gotten will probably help to some extent. The fact that it has been covered fairly well in Richmond probably actually doesn't make that a good choice, so I'd go for Norfolk if I was his lawyer.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:18 AM
Crimes against children and animals really piss me off, I am against the DP but I would have no problem taking those kind of perps out and smacking them around a bit.

It's funny, from movies, videogames, etc. I often feel by being desensitized to a lot of violence, but then I'm hypersensitized to crimes against animals and children.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:19 AM
So Lizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz is watching us eh? Hey Razzy!:crazy:


Tell that boyfriend of yours to come out of hiding and come answer our questions. He is probably too intimidated by us though. I would really love to see some of your little group grow a pair (in Razzy's case strap....oh nevermind) and join us here and talk to us.

The first question we have for Mr Shrim is:

Does this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/PazuzuDemonAssyria1stMilleniumBCE.jpg/380px-PazuzuDemonAssyria1stMilleniumBCE.jpg

Equal this:


http://www.truecrimediary.com/truecrimediary/uploads/Image/mccorsky.jpg

Given the fact that the blog describing the making of the "in The Name Of" video seems to have been made by a well known Internet loon and spammer, it seems that we can't take anything written there at face value. This includes the comments section BTW...

You may recall that I had been suspicious of the blog from the beginning, especially once I noticed that the video was made years ago, apparently in 2006, and this was before Sam was interested in SKR et al as I understand it. There are some other problems with the blog, such as some weirdly incorrect astrological statements. YMMV.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:20 AM
re: Mark Kropidlowski

He seems to have a problem with the web group Anonymous also. Is he a scientologist?

He seems to be a fundamentalist christian but he could be a scientologist with his hatred of anonymous, of which I know much about.:crazy:

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:24 AM
Requesting a change of venue is a wise move for his lawyer to make, but it's not quite so easy. He would probably fry in Alexandria for instance if found guilty. I'm thinking Richmond, or maybe East of there in Norfolk or VA Beach is his best trial venue. He certainly wants to avoid Lynchburg and probably Roanoke.

It's going to be a tricky thing no matter what, but the relative lack of news this story has gotten will probably help to some extent. The fact that it has been covered fairly well in Richmond probably actually doesn't make that a good choice, so I'd go for Norfolk if I was his lawyer.

Yeah, and the lawyer doesn't get to pick which venue. I think in a capital punishment case the defense will get some deference as to they venues they suggest, but it's ultimately up to the judge. I'm only gauging this case from what I pick up on the board, but I think a change of venue is needed based simply on the commentary here.

hank
11-18-2009, 11:27 AM
I found this interesting/puzzling ...why would Razz want baby socks? after they have been worn.

Quote from a poster on raz's myspace page:
"Juice actually watched most of the birthing.With looking away a few times.. Than he went to go see the baby after she was born..And my placenta wasnt fully out of my sn***h yet.. So he looked over and seen that coming out..All chunky n bloody..n was lik O_O grOSS!!...... Of course ill send you a pair of socks after she wears them..Thats fine with me..lol. But ill do it after she comes home..CAuse they only wrap her in a blanket at the hospital no sockies for her :P "


snipped and bolded by me.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:28 AM
Pax,

I assume you are fmailiar with Peter Levenda's beliefs about serial killers? I find it very interesting that this particular killer may have been unconsciously influenced by Levenda's own book.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:30 AM
I found this interesting/puzzling ...why would Razz want baby socks? after they have been worn.

Quote from a poster on raz's myspace page:
"Juice actually watched most of the birthing.With looking away a few times.. Than he went to go see the baby after she was born..And my placenta wasnt fully out of my sn***h yet.. So he looked over and seen that coming out..All chunky n bloody..n was lik O_O grOSS!!...... Of course ill send you a pair of socks after she wears them..Thats fine with me..lol. But ill do it after she comes home..CAuse they only wrap her in a blanket at the hospital no sockies for her :P "


snipped and bolded by me.


Good question.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Here's some discussion on this Mark Kropidlowski's alter ego "Tom Newton" from a blog similiar to the horrorcore one blasting the internet group Anonymous on Encyclopedia Dramatica (a 4chan wiki) (kind of offensive, definitely silly and sarcastic, and may be borderline NSFW, but I'm working from home today).

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tom_Newton

Edited to say: this isn't borderline nsfw, it's totally NSFW from some banner ads.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:36 AM
Here's some discussion on this Mark Kropidlowski's alter ego "Tom Newton" from a blog similiar to the horrorcore one blasting the internet group Anonymous on Encyclopedia Dramatica (a 4chan wiki) (kind of offensive, definitely silly and sarcastic, and may be borderline NSFW, but I'm working from home today).

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tom_Newton

People should be very very careful about exploring that site, ED, especially while at work.

You have been warned :)

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Here's some discussion on this Mark Kropidlowski's alter ego "Tom Newton" from a blog similiar to the horrorcore one blasting the internet group Anonymous on Encyclopedia Dramatica (a 4chan wiki) (kind of offensive, definitely silly and sarcastic, and may be borderline NSFW, but I'm working from home today).

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tom_Newton

It seems that this might be the same guy as Tom Newton I agree. Hard to say for sure of course...

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:40 AM
Good question.

I'm guessing it's not because she is pregnant.

Sock puppets? Or maybe a poppet aka "rag doll"...

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/voodoo/voodoodolls/

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:42 AM
Pax,

I assume you are fmailiar with Peter Levenda's beliefs about serial killers? I find it very interesting that this particular killer may have been unconsciously influenced by Levenda's own book.

Yes interesting and ironic eh? Ever heard of this guy and this book?

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51A8DWRE89L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

He and Levenda share a lot of the same ideas.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 11:42 AM
It seems that this might be the same guy as Tom Newton I agree. Hard to say for sure of course...

Well, if this blog http://anonymous-is-a-hategroup.blogspot.com/

is authored by this Mark guy, which it seems like it is, then that ED article is about him.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Here's some discussion on this Mark Kropidlowski's alter ego "Tom Newton" from a blog similiar to the horrorcore one blasting the internet group Anonymous on Encyclopedia Dramatica (a 4chan wiki) (kind of offensive, definitely silly and sarcastic, and may be borderline NSFW, but I'm working from home today).

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tom_Newton

Edited to say: this isn't borderline nsfw, it's totally NSFW from some banner ads.

LOL we sure have run in to some interesting characters in this case, I think this Tom Newton fellow deserves a chaper of his own, what a whackjob.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Well, if this blog http://anonymous-is-a-hategroup.blogspot.com/

is authored by this Mark guy, which it seems like it is, then that ED article is about him.

Unfortunately we don't have access to blogspot's IP logs so we really can't say for sure, but I do agree that it seems likely to be the same guy. For example, there are some language usage similarities.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 11:48 AM
Yes interesting and ironic eh? Ever heard of this guy and this book?

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murder/dp/0595326404#noop)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51A8DWRE89L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

He and Levenda share a lot of the same ideas.

I haven't read this book, but you know where I am headed here.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm guessing it's not because she is pregnant.

Sock puppets? Or maybe a poppet aka "rag doll"...

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/voodoo/voodoodolls/

Im thinking rag dolls now that you mention it, maybe even voodoo dolls...

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:50 AM
I haven't read this book, but you know where I am headed here.

Nothing would surprise me my friend, nothing at all.:waitasec:

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 11:55 AM
ok catching up again. Nothing new to add. Just wanted to say...

Well, he can record and send off or layover a track on a beat machine that will distort or not convert everything if he wants. EVEN IF every horrorcore fan bought a CD, that would equal, what, 80,000 TOPS sold? (I pulled that out of my head, can't remember how big they say the "community" is).

As far as the venue, I agree, they can't pick where it goes. It's not looking good. A lot of places in VA will have a problem with Sam. I agree with some of the previous posters, I don't think he'll be getting much of a sympathetic ear in VA.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 12:01 PM
DM

Have you had a chance to read any of Levenda's "Sinister Forces" books, its a series of books, they go for about 300 bucks for each book in the series used paperback, not easy to find but fascinating reading.

A good friend of mine, Ralph Epperson, who wrote the conspiracy theorists bible "The Unseen Hand" knows Levenda well from all the conferences they attend and speak at and he introduced me to him on a few occasions and Peter gave me an entire set signed that I have in my library. You would really enjoy these books.

I have to confess that my first reaction to mass murders and serial killers is possible mind controlled manchurian candidate and I always work from that angle to begin my investigation and I think a lot of people would be surpirsed at how connected some of these killers are. Connected politically or with the CIA or military industrial complex or spent time in certain hospitals where mind control is known to be used and experimented with etc.

I dont think this is the case with Sam but we could make the case that he was indirectly influenced in this manner via Levenda's work.

tapu
11-18-2009, 12:08 PM
Pax's wonderings regarding jury pool are interesting. And somewhere to go with NO NEW INFO.... (annmarie!)

I think the defense should look for people who have psychotherapy/mental health experiences for themselves or family members. Any kind of exposure that might be related to this: AA members or family members, people in mental health related fields, people who have, work with, know troubled adolescents, even children with autism, etc. I'm thinking, even if there isn't an insanity defense. This type may be more likely to relate to, understand Sam's mental state, short of insanity. The pressures on him.

More generally, they should try to seat males over females, heavily. Especially males that seem in any way weak or passive toward females. Any male that seems likely to be unsuccessful with females.

Another topic: Raz's altering her first and last name, and her mention of a master's degree would certainly indicate to me that she's been in here. As for the baby socks... maybe she casts a good spell for the baby using those. A protective one, anyway. Surely that's not inconsistent with the "wicked ****."

You know I was thinking: it's hard to imagine Raz or any of them having, like, a normal everyday exchange. Like, would she be in the bathroom brushing her teeth (does she brush her teeth? even that seems anomalous), and yell, "Honey, did you get toilet paper today?" Does she even use toilet paper? Or is it underground newsprint? Sand paper? I just can't fathom the idea of the persona being always in effect. It's not like Marilyn Manson eats breakfast all made up, for comparison....

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 12:25 PM
Pax's wonderings regarding jury pool are interesting. And somewhere to go with NO NEW INFO.... (annmarie!)

I think the defense should look for people who have psychotherapy/mental health experiences for themselves or family members. Any kind of exposure that might be related to this: AA members or family members, people in mental health related fields, people who have, work with, know troubled adolescents, even children with autism, etc. I'm thinking, even if there isn't an insanity defense. This type may be more likely to relate to, understand Sam's mental state, short of insanity. The pressures on him.

More generally, they should try to seat males over females, heavily. Especially males that seem in any way weak or passive toward females. Any male that seems likely to be unsuccessful with females.

Another topic: Raz's altering her first and last name, and her mention of a master's degree would certainly indicate to me that she's been in here. As for the baby socks... maybe she casts a good spell for the baby using those. A protective one, anyway. Surely that's not inconsistent with the "wicked ****."

You know I was thinking: it's hard to imagine Raz or any of them having, like, a normal everyday exchange. Like, would she be in the bathroom brushing her teeth (does she brush her teeth? even that seems anomalous), and yell, "Honey, did you get toilet paper today?" Does she even use toilet paper? Or is it underground newsprint? Sand paper? I just can't fathom the idea of the persona being always in effect. It's not like Marilyn Manson eats breakfast all made up, for comparison....

Good stuff here, agree with jury pool musings.

Sandpaper?!? Ouch, now thats FUNNY. I think you may be right, Raz is in character all the time it seems.

tapu
11-18-2009, 12:47 PM
If she don't use sandpaper, then she sure ain't no ****in queen of da wicked **** in my world, nuh-huh, no way. :cool:

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:08 PM
LOL her myspace says she is the "Susan Atkins" of the Wicked *****.


This whole Wicked ***** thing cracks me up.

tapu
11-18-2009, 01:11 PM
LOL her myspace says she is the "Susan Atkins" of the Wicked *****.


This whole Wicked ***** thing cracks me up.



I'd say Raz doesn't know "wicked-****" about Susan Atkins, if she thinks that'd be any big deal. (Now there's a subject the tapu is very up on: the Manson Family.)

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:13 PM
If she don't use sandpaper, then she sure ain't no ****in queen of da wicked **** in my world, nuh-huh, no way. :cool:

I am sure someone in The Grotto has to go to the market at least to buy Shiner Bock, someone has do the laundry (fake blood washes out luckily), and someone has to clean the toilets and the kitchen just like "normal" families...

A lot of us come from families that maybe weren't so normal or we've created our own families that don't quite fit the "normal" mold. My household is mixed/complicated, and I know a lot of kids being raised by gay parents, parents with strange beliefs, and so on. So, just me personally, I don't find the juxtaposition of weirdness and the chores of everyday life all that amazing.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 01:13 PM
tapu, I find it interesting you say family of AA members, people that can relate more...I think, and I may be waaaaaay off base here, but a lot of people will be looking for something to project how they really feel. ok that was all gibberish. Ok, say Mary get's on the jury. Mary has a brother who is always messing up, forever doing SOMETHING wrong because of alcohol substance abuse type thing. He's in AA, cleaning life up....I think that a lot of people may find it easier to condemn someone outside of their family for everything they have been through.

Now that beings said, I think it'll be hard to find an unbiased jury. I mean, these were almost like 2 separate acts. between the 3 women and the 1 preacher.

I think passive males are good. I also think chovuanistic (wow i butchered that) men would be a good choice, men who don't see women as an important part of life outside of childbirth.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 01:16 PM
I'd say Raz doesn't know "wicked-****" about Susan Atkins, if she thinks that'd be any big deal. (Now there's a subject the tapu is very up on: the Manson Family.)

Me too, one of my favorite areas of study. Big student of everything Manson, Laurel Canyon, Polanski etc.

Strange things was going on around them parts, strange things...

tapu
11-18-2009, 01:41 PM
tapu, I find it interesting you say family of AA members, people that can relate more...I think, and I may be waaaaaay off base here, but a lot of people will be looking for something to project how they really feel. ok that was all gibberish. Ok, say Mary get's on the jury. Mary has a brother who is always messing up, forever doing SOMETHING wrong because of alcohol substance abuse type thing. He's in AA, cleaning life up....I think that a lot of people may find it easier to condemn someone outside of their family for everything they have been through.

Now that beings said, I think it'll be hard to find an unbiased jury. I mean, these were almost like 2 separate acts. between the 3 women and the 1 preacher.

I think passive males are good. I also think chovuanistic (wow i butchered that) men would be a good choice, men who don't see women as an important part of life outside of childbirth.


Yeah, I see your point. I guess that type of juror (first paragraph) could go either way. It's damn hard to come up with a type that would be sympathetic to Sam--even though he is, I think, an intrisically sympathetic character type in and of himself--once you introduce the victimology.

What's available trialwise generally in VA, has anyone laid it out for us yet? We know there's that weird capital murder charge with the 2 people in 3 years clause. That kind of blows me. What's the usual state of affairs regarding LWP, LWOP? Any interesting sentencing quirks?

Hey, another thing I was wondering about: is there anything ambiguous about "Jesus made me do it" being brought into evidence? Of course he'd been read his rights by then, but is it evidence of anything that matters? (This may have been touched on here earlier.)

Any other aspects we might float until the next developments?

tapu
11-18-2009, 01:44 PM
Me too, one of my favorite areas of study. Big student of everything Manson, Laurel Canyon, Polanski etc.

Strange things was going on around them parts, strange things...




Hey, I have all the first person accounts: Tex's book, Susan Atkins', Paul Watkins'.... I know you have some print, too, like Santa Susana.... I have that, Nuel Edmonds, Garbage People (both editions), etc. I think I'm going to throw them out in a yard sale someday and watch people's reactions.... :)

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 01:56 PM
If in a sealed up room, someone put clean air machines and lot of scented candles around the people they killed what would you think about that?

Something weird that occurs to me here...

Why isn't he just leaving town instead of hanging around spending money on things like this?

One possibility seems to be that the wanted to dispose of the bodies, but didn't have the keys to the van which were found in an air conditioning unit IIRC. This also explains the Poorhouse Road trip a few days later once he did have access to a car. Scouting a burial/dump site.

Also, I just have to ask, what scent of candles did he pick?

:couch:

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 02:08 PM
Something weird that occurs to me here...

Why isn't he just leaving town instead of hanging around spending money on things like this?

One possibility seems to be that the wanted to dispose of the bodies, but didn't have the keys to the van which were found in an air conditioning unit IIRC. This also explains the Poorhouse Road trip a few days later once he did have access to a car. Scouting a burial/dump site.

Also, I just have to ask, what scent of candles did he pick?

:couch:

I was curious to the scent as well...maybe it may play more into ritualistic than I originally gave credence to. Or maybe he was trying to burn down the house. Maybe the smell just plain sucked even to him. ah who knows by now. For all we know, he was trying to seduce emma and had the candles out before hand and when that didn't work he snapped. We just don't know much and that SUCKS! calling the in laws this afternoon, I need some VA insight!!

Tapu, i'll ask about all of the questions above, my MIL is a court junkie as well, so she should be up on the case!

gxm
11-18-2009, 02:12 PM
LOL we sure have run in to some interesting characters in this case, I think this Tom Newton fellow deserves a chaper of his own, what a whackjob.

Who is Tom Newton? I must have been away from the board when he was discussed.

Farmvillian
11-18-2009, 02:12 PM
ITA. IMO, Sam's weight loss would most likely be attributed to depression. Not bathing (one of Sam's traits) is also a symptom of depression. IMO Sam is a kid who desperately needed something good, some light, to enter his life. He may have hoped that Emma could be this light. And her rejection sent him into a descent of rage.

ETA: BTW, Pax, when I said that Sam wasn't in love with Emma, I was using my concept of love which doesn't include killing the person you love. Our culture is awash in the commodification of women and many men see women as a thing to be owned. I do agree that Sam probably wanted to have/own the pretty and popular Emma. But IMO this is not love.

IMO he lost the weight because he was meeeting a hot girl from Va.

Farmvillian
11-18-2009, 02:15 PM
Lets talk about JURY SELECTION who does the prosecution want on that jury?

Who does the defense want on that jury?

Who is most likely to feel sympathtic towards Sam?

Minorities, black males or females?
Older while males or females?
Educated or uneducated folks?
Christians or non christian/atheist/pagan etc?

I think the prosecution will favor older white christian females and the defense will want young adult or middle aged college graduates with no religious affiliation as these types will be less prone to making rash emotional decisions. Minorities could go either way, they may not respect a white boy trying to rap, for example. Divoriced males may be sympathetic towards Sam, perhaps understanding the feeling of rejection etc. Its a college town but I dont know how long a student must be a resident before they are required to serve on a jury, students could go either way, Debra was a professor afterall but they are also more likely to understand Sam's lifestyle and the culture that he was part of.

Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 02:16 PM
Who is Tom Newton? I must have been away from the board when he was discussed.

Go to post 34 and read from there re: Tom Newton aka "Mark" Kropidlowski.

Here is DMs findings:

This is interesting...

I did a Google blog search for "SickTanick" and I found this:



http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=sicktanick

Turns out that someone claiming to be Mark Kropidlowski made both the "SKR are terrorists" blog and the "satanic ritual blog".

See http://horror-core.blogspot.com/ and http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 02:17 PM
Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

I didnt even know they started jury selection yet, are you sure they have? I would think there would be a lot of motions filed before they even get to that, for example change of venue etc.

His preliminary hearing (evidentiary hearing) is Jan 11th and this is a proceeding, after a criminal complaint has been filed by the prosecutor which they did a few weeks ago, to determine whether there is enough evidence to require a trial.

At this point it has not even been decided if Sam will stand trial, we wont know that until Jan 11th when all the evidence is presented to the court and the court decides if a trial shall proceed from there. So they are not anywhere near jury selection yet. Once they have the prelim then you will have all sorts of motions to supress this evidence or that evidence and that could go on for a while, then you will have change of venue motions etc. Then once it is decided what evidence is admissible and what evidence is inadmissible the judge finally rules on whether there is enough evidence for a trial. They would then change venue or not and lastly they will then begin jury selection and I dont see that happening until late Feb or even March.

Farmvillian
11-18-2009, 02:27 PM
That's why I'm suggesting DC burbs is probably his best bet, the venue for which his lawyer should advocate.

Farmville law enforcement will not let this one go. I forsee no change in venue. IMO

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 02:39 PM
Farmville law enforcement will not let this one go. I forsee no change in venue. IMO

Well that is up to the judge really and if they get stubborn and decide to deny Sam a change of venue they may actually be helping him because I could easily argue after the fact on appeal that he couldnt have gotten a fair trial in Farmville and the appeals court might toss his conviction because of it. IMO if Sams lawyer pushes hard for a change of venue they have to give it to him or they will be setting themselves up for appeal.

gxm
11-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Go to post 34 and read from there re: Tom Newton aka "Mark" Kropidlowski.

Here is DMs findings:

This is interesting...

I did a Google blog search for "SickTanick" and I found this:



http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=sicktanick

Turns out that someone claiming to be Mark Kropidlowski made both the "SKR are terrorists" blog and the "satanic ritual blog".

See http://horror-core.blogspot.com/ and http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

Thanks Pax! So that's the guy who claims to have taken part in the video. Yikes. I went to Dangrs' link, took one glance and closed the window. He definitely deserves his own chapter.

tapu
11-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Hey! Keys in the AC unit.... I'd forgotten about that. I know it was suggested that maybe Debra hid them from Emma but.... I can certainly speculate otherwise. On my way home from work now, though! What can any of you make out of this key thing? See you inna.

--tap

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 02:47 PM
Hey, I have all the first person accounts: Tex's book, Susan Atkins', Paul Watkins'.... I know you have some print, too, like Santa Susana.... I have that, Nuel Edmonds, Garbage People (both editions), etc. I think I'm going to throw them out in a yard sale someday and watch people's reactions.... :)

LOL I always wanted to take all my crazy conspiracy books and set them out at a yard sale just to see how people would respond. Romance novels these are not heh heh.

If you ever want to get rid of yours pack them up and send me a bill, I will buy them from you. Ill take anything Manson related even if I already have it.

Farmvillian
11-18-2009, 02:49 PM
I didnt even know they started jury selection yet, are you sure they have? I would think there would be a lot of motions filed before they even get to that, for example change of venue etc.

His preliminary hearing (evidentiary hearing) is Jan 11th and this is a proceeding, after a criminal complaint has been filed by the prosecutor which they did a few weeks ago, to determine whether there is enough evidence to require a trial.

At this point it has not even been decided if Sam will stand trial, we wont know that until Jan 11th when all the evidence is presented to the court and the court decides if a trial shall proceed from there. So they are not anywhere near jury selection yet. Once they have the prelim and the judge rules that there is enough evidence to proceed with a trial, then you will have all sorts of motions to supress this evidence or that evidence and that could go on for a while, then you will have change of venue motions etc. Then once it is decided what evidence is admissible and what evidence is inadmissible and change the venue should the judge agree to such they will then begin jury selection and I dont see that happening until late Feb or even March.

Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 03:14 PM
I was curious to the scent as well...maybe it may play more into ritualistic than I originally gave credence to. Or maybe he was trying to burn down the house. Maybe the smell just plain sucked even to him. ah who knows by now. For all we know, he was trying to seduce emma and had the candles out before hand and when that didn't work he snapped. We just don't know much and that SUCKS! calling the in laws this afternoon, I need some VA insight!!

Tapu, i'll ask about all of the questions above, my MIL is a court junkie as well, so she should be up on the case!

Leilah Wendell, the necromantic author mentioned by SickTanick in his O.T.O. interview, mentions the use of scents in the form of incense in her Necromantic Ritual Book.

Rose - for the spirit of a departed loved one
Sandalwood - for the ministering elementals/guardian spirits
Musk - for the protective spirit
Jasmine - for the Angel of Death

There is also a ritual in this book that calls for "easy access to at least one corpse" and use of a "hollyberry" scented candle.

FWIW.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 03:25 PM
Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

Well that may be the case but not where I have practiced law. There will be a preliminary hearing thats when the evidence is presented and when the judge decides if a trial should be held.

As for a venue change, like I said if they deny it they will be helping Sam on appeal. He cant get a fair trial no way no how.

gxm
11-18-2009, 03:45 PM
Well that may be the case but not where I have practiced law. There will be a preliminary hearing thats when the evidence is presented and when the judge decides if a trial should be held.

As for a venue change, like I said if they deny it they will be helping Sam on appeal. He cant get a fair trial no way no how.

ITA. When I said that his lawyer wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't get a venue change, I meant that his job is to give the most persuasive argument in Sam's favor. But you are absolutely right, it would be foolish for the judge to deny it.

If they send it up to Northern Virginia then perhaps I can attend some of the trial. Northern Virginia is more liberal than other parts of Virginia so I'm not sure why someone thought that Sam would "fry" in Alexandria. IMO he'd have a better shot at LWOP in the more liberal pockets of the state.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 03:48 PM
Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

Jury selection certainly hasn't begun yet.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 03:49 PM
Farmville law enforcement will not let this one go. I forsee no change in venue. IMO

Farmville law enforcement has no say in a change of venue motion.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 03:53 PM
Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

Judges and lawyers don't have "breakfast" to decide someones fate, they have trials. Rulings on motions in capitol cases are not taken lightly. There are many, many constitutional barriers to insure a fair trial, and in the event that there isn't one there is plenty of scrutiny, as well of plenty academics and cash to spend to "right" unfair trials.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 03:56 PM
ITA. When I said that his lawyer wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't get a venue change, I meant that his job is to give the most persuasive argument in Sam's favor. But you are absolutely right, it would be foolish for the judge to deny it.

If they send it up to Northern Virginia then perhaps I can attend some of the trial. Northern Virginia is more liberal than other parts of Virginia so I'm not sure why someone thought that Sam would "fry" in Alexandria. IMO he'd have a better shot at LWOP in the more liberal pockets of the state.

I don't portend to know anything about Virginia, other than that I wouldn't want to be accused of a crime there. I picked the DC suburbs because I know of their liberal slant and larger percentage of educated individuals. But, that was without any substantive research on my part.

CharlieChan
11-18-2009, 03:57 PM
Hi Raz, if you"re here (long time lurker). Raz seems to be thumbin her nose to everyone but if the only thing they"ve done is sorta contribute to the delinquency of these minors (products of permissive child rearing) then that's one thing. I always managed to find someone to sympathize & get me underage alcohol. What the SicknRaz show needs to consider is the communications that took place before and after the murders. You have people in Virginia, New Mexico & California (others too I beleive). Anytime crimes involve crossing state lines or jurasdictions, you're just begging the Feds to get involved. OUCH! Federal judges are required to operate under mandatory sentencing guidelines. It's not pretty.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 03:59 PM
Yeah, I see your point. I guess that type of juror (first paragraph) could go either way. It's damn hard to come up with a type that would be sympathetic to Sam--even though he is, I think, an intrisically sympathetic character type in and of himself--once you introduce the victimology.

What's available trialwise generally in VA, has anyone laid it out for us yet? We know there's that weird capital murder charge with the 2 people in 3 years clause. That kind of blows me. What's the usual state of affairs regarding LWP, LWOP? Any interesting sentencing quirks?

Hey, another thing I was wondering about: is there anything ambiguous about "Jesus made me do it" being brought into evidence? Of course he'd been read his rights by then, but is it evidence of anything that matters? (This may have been touched on here earlier.)

Any other aspects we might float until the next developments?

I haven't done any real case law research yet as I don't really want that billing to come in and have to try to explain it. I will try to do some this weekend to see what I find.

The "jesus made me do it" thing, if allowed to be introduced, will be objected to and will then be an issue that's appealable.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 04:01 PM
Thanks Pax! So that's the guy who claims to have taken part in the video. Yikes. I went to Dangrs' link, took one glance and closed the window. He definitely deserves his own chapter.

Yea he appears to be another interesting character in our little story here, lurking in from the fringes as he is.

ericclimbs
11-18-2009, 04:05 PM
DM

Have you had a chance to read any of Levenda's "Sinister Forces" books, its a series of books, they go for about 300 bucks for each book in the series used paperback, not easy to find but fascinating reading.



Man you guys keep me busy on this site. I spend a day and a half away and I'm seven pages in the hole (not that I'm comlaining!). AnnMarie asked what was going on here with the OT lately but, in the absence of much new information I think the prolific posters on here have more than earned the right to discuss whatever they please until such new info comes to light.

Anyway, in regards to Pax's qoute above these books have been republished and can be had for normal book prices:

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books

I haven't read them but I check out nearly everything mentioned and discussed in this forums. All of it very fascinating!

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 04:08 PM
Well that may be the case but not where I have practiced law. There will be a preliminary hearing thats when the evidence is presented and when the judge decides if a trial should be held.

As for a venue change, like I said if they deny it they will be helping Sam on appeal. He cant get a fair trial no way no how.

The jury would not be already picked and a foreman of the jury elected two months before a preliminary hearing. This is the problem with unsubstantiated rumors I tried to address earlier.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 04:10 PM
I didnt even know they started jury selection yet, are you sure they have? I would think there would be a lot of motions filed before they even get to that, for example change of venue etc.

His preliminary hearing (evidentiary hearing) is Jan 11th and this is a proceeding, after a criminal complaint has been filed by the prosecutor which they did a few weeks ago, to determine whether there is enough evidence to require a trial.

At this point it has not even been decided if Sam will stand trial, we wont know that until Jan 11th when all the evidence is presented to the court and the court decides if a trial shall proceed from there. So they are not anywhere near jury selection yet. Once they have the prelim then you will have all sorts of motions to supress this evidence or that evidence and that could go on for a while, then you will have change of venue motions etc. Then once it is decided what evidence is admissible and what evidence is inadmissible the judge finally rules on whether there is enough evidence for a trial. They would then change venue or not and lastly they will then begin jury selection and I dont see that happening until late Feb or even March.
Grand jury maybe? I served on a jury for a murder trial years ago. Selection is made at the beginning of the trial.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 04:10 PM
Man you guys keep me busy on this site. I spend a day and a half away and I'm seven pages in the hole (not that I'm comlaining!). AnnMarie asked what was going on here with the OT lately but, in the absence of much new information I think the prolific posters on here have more than earned the right to discuss whatever they please until such new info comes to light.

Anyway, in regards to Pax's qoute above these books have been republished and can be had for normal book prices:

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murder/dp/0595326404#noop?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

I haven't read them but I check out nearly everything mentioned and discussed in this forums. All of it very fascinating!

Yes thats true you can get the newer editions for 20 bucks or so, the ones I have are signed which I really dont care about, its whats in them that interests me, very fascinating reading and I am glad to see you delving in to some of this stuff, it will open a lot of doors for you as you go along, you will start to see things much more clearly all around you.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 04:11 PM
Grand jury maybe?

I think he was already indicted wasnt he?

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 04:14 PM
The jury would not be already picked and a foreman of the jury elected two months before a preliminary hearing. This is the problem with unsubstantiated rumors I tried to address earlier.

Yea I am not sure where he got the idea the jury was picked, we have a long way to go before we get to that.

We will have at least a 50 page thread going in the second week of Jan when the prelim hearing starts and all the evidence is made public, thats when it gets fun.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 04:14 PM
Leilah Wendell, the necromantic author mentioned by SickTanick in his O.T.O. interview, mentions the use of scents in the form of incense in her Necromantic Ritual Book.

Rose - for the spirit of a departed loved one
Sandalwood - for the ministering elementals/guardian spirits
Musk - for the protective spirit
Jasmine - for the Angel of Death

There is also a ritual in this book that calls for "easy access to at least one corpse" and use of a "hollyberry" scented candle.

FWIW.
Very interesting Thanks

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 04:15 PM
I think he was already indicted wasnt he?

Yes. A grand jury only listens to the evidence and decides whether the person should be indicted. They have no say in whether to "bring the hammer down hard".

ericclimbs
11-18-2009, 04:15 PM
Anyway, in regards to Pax's qoute above these books have been republished and can be had for normal book prices:

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murder/dp/0595326404#noop?tag=citofgamonlco-20)

I haven't read them but I check out nearly everything mentioned and discussed in this forums. All of it very fascinating!

Whoops wrong link. Sorry:

Correction --

Amazon.com: Sinister Forces-The Nine: A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft (Bk. 1) (9780975290620): Peter Levenda, Jim Hougan: Books

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 04:19 PM
I think he was already indicted wasnt he?
Exactly, thinking that what the rumor was about.

gxm
11-18-2009, 04:19 PM
I don't portend to know anything about Virginia, other than that I wouldn't want to be accused of a crime there. I picked the DC suburbs because I know of their liberal slant and larger percentage of educated individuals. But, that was without any substantive research on my part.

ITA. I've lived in Northern Virginia my entire life (born in DC) and IMO the DC suburbs (aka Inside the Beltway) would have one of the highest percentages of liberals and moderates in the jury pool.

ericclimbs
11-18-2009, 04:20 PM
Yes thats true you can get the newer editions for 20 bucks or so, the ones I have are signed which I really dont care about, its whats in them that interests me, very fascinating reading and I am glad to see you delving in to some of this stuff, it will open a lot of doors for you as you go along, you will start to see things much more clearly all around you.

Thanks I'll have to check some of this stuff out. I am a solid agnostic and consider myself to have a very open mind. I don't necessarily believe in things but I also don't not believe in them, if that makes any sense. Life after death? Maybe, maybe not. UFO's? Maybe, maybe not. Angels and Demons? Maybe, maybe not. Just to name but a few mysteries. I've certainly read compelling info for and against many of these arguments.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 04:22 PM
Thanks I'll have to check some of this stuff out. I am a solid agnostic and consider myself to have a very open mind. I don't necessarily believe in things but I also don't not believe in them, if that makes any sense. Life after death? Maybe, maybe not. UFO's? Maybe, maybe not. Angels and Demons? Maybe, maybe not. Just to name but a few mysteries. I've certainly read compelling info for and against many of these arguments.

Yea I am about the same, I just read everything I can get my hands on.

ericclimbs
11-18-2009, 04:22 PM
ITA. I've lived in Northern Virginia my entire life (born in DC) and IMO the DC suburbs (aka Inside the Beltway) would have one of the highest percentages of liberals and moderates in the jury pool.

I live in California but grew up in NOVA (born at Alexandria Hospital). I have to agree here, at least in regards to the state of Virginia.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 04:23 PM
I dont know anything about the grand jury. Do they decide what charges should be made? Do they have any say other than yes, charge him or no do not charge him?

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 04:25 PM
I live in California but grew up in NOVA (born at Alexandria Hospital). I have to agree here, at least in regards to the state of Virginia.
We are a commonwealth!

Heroine
11-18-2009, 04:26 PM
I dont know anything about the grand jury. Do they decide what charges should be made? Do they have any say other than yes, charge him or no do not charge him?

I'm not sure, but I think they are allowed to make suggestions to the judge and he/she has final decision. I could be wrong though. I know they do sometimes suggest sentencing though.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 04:27 PM
I dont know anything about the grand jury. Do they decide what charges should be made? Do they have any say other than yes, charge him or no do not charge him?

All they decide is whether there is enough evidence for a trial by listening to the evidence given by the prosecutor. They have no impact on anything else. They would not be identified. Nor would whether or not they want to "bring the hammer down hard."

This is a complete baseless rumor.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 04:29 PM
I'm not sure, but I think they are allowed to make suggestions to the judge and he/she has final decision. I could be wrong though. I know they do sometimes suggest sentencing though.

Grand juries have nothing to do with sentencing. They would indict him on the capitol charge.

Heroine
11-18-2009, 04:33 PM
Grand juries have nothing to do with sentencing. They would indict him on the capitol charge.

I have known for juries ( in rare cases ) to make suggestions about sentencing, but the judge is the one who usually makes the final decision.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 04:36 PM
I have known for juries ( in rare cases ) to make suggestions about sentencing, but the judge is the one who usually makes the final decision.

Petit Juries (juries in trials) can, after the trial. Grand juries are simply the prosecution making their case and the grand jury decides whether to issue indictments. Their only influence on "sentencing" is to indict him on capitol charges.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 04:37 PM
I have known for juries ( in rare cases ) to make suggestions about sentencing, but the judge is the one who usually makes the final decision.

Yes juries can certainly suggest sentencing to the judge but not Grand Juries.

Heroine
11-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Yes juries can certainly suggest sentencing to the judge but not Grand Juries.

Oh okay, I get what you guys are saying now. I kept missing that one word, GRAND....haha! I see now.

coastal
11-18-2009, 04:41 PM
Leilah Wendell, the necromantic author mentioned by SickTanick in his O.T.O. interview, mentions the use of scents in the form of incense in her Necromantic Ritual Book.

Rose - for the spirit of a departed loved one
Sandalwood - for the ministering elementals/guardian spirits
Musk - for the protective spirit
Jasmine - for the Angel of Death

There is also a ritual in this book that calls for "easy access to at least one corpse" and use of a "hollyberry" scented candle.

FWIW.
I have to say, for just this one detail, I hope McCrosky was inspired by ritual. I was imagining vanilla http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/ekelig/g025.gif .

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 04:46 PM
No way would I want to be part of this jury. I would never be able to sleep again, if I had to view the evidence.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 04:48 PM
No way would I want to be part of this jury. I would never be able to sleep again, if I had to view the evidence.

Not to mention that you'd be sequestered from your family for a long time.

Heroine
11-18-2009, 04:49 PM
No way would I want to be part of this jury. I would never be able to sleep again, if I had to view the evidence.

Isn't it crazy how someone who seemed like such a dork could do things to people that would make others not be able to sleep at night? In saying that, I think to Sam, his mission has been accomplished. I'm just glad Sam has no internet service where he is, because if he did I have a feeling he would be happy by the reactions he got from on-lookers.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 04:51 PM
Here's a bit of weird/interesting Farmville history:

The "death" of Betty Dickerson of the Hampden-Sydney area

Reverend William Thompson relates the story of Betty Dickerson, who lived in the Hampden-Sydney area, and died in her teenage years just shortly after the ending of the Civil War. A family member rode to Farmville to send a telegram to her brother, who lived in Texas. The return wire told the family not to bury Miss Dickerson until he arrived because he wanted to see his sister's "sweet face" one more time. The family now had a problem since this was before the days of embalming.
A local coffin maker built a two-layered coffin. Miss Dickerson's corpse was put in the top section and beneath her was a lined metal container. Relatives, friends, and neighbors gave ice to be put in the bottom. After three days, they ran out of ice and set the funeral services for a Tuesday afternoon with interment in College Church Cemetery. That fateful morning, her brother arrived. He went to the parlor where is sister, wearing a black dress with a red flower tucked into its bodice, was laid out.
When the brother bent over to kiss his sister farewell, he felt the flower move! The family called a doctor to check her pulse. He found none, but the brother insisted that a stimulant be applied. In two or three minutes, Betty sat up, opened her eyes, and started talking to those in the room.
Betty Dickerson lived to be 96 years old. From that day of her "funeral" to her death, she wore a red flower.

-- Taylor, L.B., Jr. The Ghosts of Virginia, Volume V

I found this in the October 2008 issue of the Farmville - Prince Edward Historical Society newsletter.

A lot more here on Farmville spooks and ghosts: http://www.fpehs.org/ghostsfarmville.html

maunsapt
11-18-2009, 05:00 PM
I wouldn't say this was the "main argument" in favor of insanity. I think the act itself is. But, there's a huge difference between scented candles and clean air machines. Scented candles is a pathetic attempt of disguising the scent of dead bodies. Clean air machines, on the other hand, are a lot more expensive, and perhaps a lot more believable in their efficacy.

Though, the insanity plea relates to at the time of the killings. This would certainly damage his case.

i know this is a response late, but, if sam used these candles and clean air machines, that is probably a reason why he didn't have the funds to get home right away, thus .... no more money.... he spent it on expensive air machines? just wondering....

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 05:01 PM
do we know what all he purchased while he was out of the house? with the receipts that were found?

NativeGirl
11-18-2009, 05:15 PM
Razakel [SKR]

Razakel [SKR]



Nov 18 2009 1:20 PM

lmfao! I AM flattered, like for real. I mean, i know there are some "obsessed people" out there, but these wannabe online detectives are by FAR the condom on my fake dick, everytime they say ANYTHING about me, i just feel so lucky that people like that have me in thiier lives, at least we GIVE them something to talk about right? and ****, they can sift thru my comments all day, look at our plays lately becuz of them ;) i aint complaining one bit, just BEYOND flattered <3
thier a buncha cuties. Another thing that gets me off, is while they "investigate" (LMFAO) we're sitting here making more fans and making more musick and more MONEY! this is why i am beyond flattered, poor little POLITICAL piggies ;)
anyway, its time for me to go smell my baby socks, masterbate to pictures of Jesus, and order people to go on killing sprees n ****. :sigh: oh, and i cant forget, play L4D2 with YOU! <333333333333
i loveeeeeeeee you <3333

http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr







SickTanicK - 93 93/93 I Hath Been Reborn!

SickTanicK - 93 93/93 I Hath Been Reborn!



Nov 18 2009 1:06 PM

Wow woman. People actually took your last comment to me seriously. Ya know, for online "intellectuals" i am pretty impressed with their stupidity aren't you? this is so ****ing funny, it goes to show, people have no lives. Least with us, were making $, were talking about a bunch of GROWN ADULTS who think they are online detectives for christs sake, trying to make connections that arent there, are you flattered? cause i sure as **** am, they play into the web of the one who devours them mentally.

P.S.

my balls itch.

<3 - The Demon Pazuzu, Mommaookalakaboobooday. lmao

-sick


http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 05:19 PM
wow, she really is touched...fans? lol. Music? lol

Heroine
11-18-2009, 05:20 PM
do we know what all he purchased while he was out of the house? with the receipts that were found?

I'd like to know this too. If Sam did in fact perform rituals, he may have needed supplies.

Heroine
11-18-2009, 05:21 PM
wow, she really is touched...fans? lol. Music? lol

Not music, musik. They are too special for OUR music so they made their own.

gxm
11-18-2009, 05:22 PM
i know this is a response late, but, if sam used these candles and clean air machines, that is probably a reason why he didn't have the funds to get home right away, thus .... no more money.... he spent it on expensive air machines? just wondering....

Or there was already a clean air machine at the house. If either Debra or Emma had allergies then that wouldn't be unusual. But you're right, if Sam bought an air purifier that would help explain his lack of funds.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 05:23 PM
of course they don't understand, I mean, we're adults, we can't be coerced with alcohol and drugs. *eye rolling* ahhh anyway, yes, if the receipts would be released, it would probably help us know WHAT frame of mind he was in. WHAT he was intending the whole time, ya know?

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 05:32 PM
Raz,A masters degree? I would have to see it to believe it. It is hard for me to believe she finished high school.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 05:35 PM
Razakel [SKR]

Razakel [SKR]



Nov 18 2009 1:20 PM

lmfao! I AM flattered, like for real. I mean, i know there are some "obsessed people" out there, but these wannabe online detectives are by FAR the condom on my fake dick, everytime they say ANYTHING about me, i just feel so lucky that people like that have me in thiier lives, at least we GIVE them something to talk about right? and ****, they can sift thru my comments all day, look at our plays lately becuz of them ;) i aint complaining one bit, just BEYOND flattered <3
thier a buncha cuties. Another thing that gets me off, is while they "investigate" (LMFAO) we're sitting here making more fans and making more musick and more MONEY! this is why i am beyond flattered, poor little POLITICAL piggies ;)
anyway, its time for me to go smell my baby socks, masterbate to pictures of Jesus, and order people to go on killing sprees n ****. :sigh: oh, and i cant forget, play L4D2 with YOU! <333333333333
i loveeeeeeeee you <3333

http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr







SickTanicK - 93 93/93 I Hath Been Reborn!

SickTanicK - 93 93/93 I Hath Been Reborn!



Nov 18 2009 1:06 PM

Wow woman. People actually took your last comment to me seriously. Ya know, for online "intellectuals" i am pretty impressed with their stupidity aren't you? this is so ****ing funny, it goes to show, people have no lives. Least with us, were making $, were talking about a bunch of GROWN ADULTS who think they are online detectives for christs sake, trying to make connections that arent there, are you flattered? cause i sure as **** am, they play into the web of the one who devours them mentally.

P.S.

my balls itch.

<3 - The Demon Pazuzu, Mommaookalakaboobooday. lmao

-sick


http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr

"haters make me famous" ;)

thesaint
11-18-2009, 05:53 PM
I lost track of this discussion back in the 1st or 2nd thread, but when / where did the information about the keys in the AC, scented candles/air machines come from? What else has come out since the end of Septmeber?

I sorta wish there were two separate threads--one for discussion/speculation/opinions about the criminal case and a 2nd for all the horrorcore editorializing and discussion. The latter is interesting stuff, but it's devouring the former discussion, making it difficult for more casual followers to keep abreast of updates/changes in this case.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-18-2009, 05:55 PM
TO answer the first part as far as I know, the candles and stuff were speculation. As far as the key's, someone else can comment on that. That i'm not sure about.

Looked over all of the paperwork in his case that was printable, taking it home and will be back later to ask some questions that may have been hit on before and I just wasn't aware, so if its a repeat in ANY way, i apologize in advance.

gxm
11-18-2009, 06:08 PM
Raz,A masters degree? I would have to see it to believe it. It is hard for me to believe she finished high school.

I've known more than one idiot with a masters. A college education ain't what it used to be.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 06:13 PM
I believe the keys and their location were identified in the search warrants.

The candles were referenced by one poster here who claims to be a local Farmville resident.

tapu
11-18-2009, 06:16 PM
Exactly, thinking that what the rumor was about.


I got ya, babe. :wink:

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 06:17 PM
i know this is a response late, but, if sam used these candles and clean air machines, that is probably a reason why he didn't have the funds to get home right away, thus .... no more money.... he spent it on expensive air machines? just wondering....

I'm judging the air machine rumor to be just that -- a rumor. The air machine I can think of would be something like an Ionic Breeze, which run about 200 bucks a pop.

Did he buy these things? I have no idea. Surely, though, it was a terrible idea as it wouldn't work.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 06:19 PM
Razakel [SKR]

Razakel [SKR]



Nov 18 2009 1:20 PM

lmfao! I AM flattered, like for real. I mean, i know there are some "obsessed people" out there, but these wannabe online detectives are by FAR the condom on my fake dick, everytime they say ANYTHING about me, i just feel so lucky that people like that have me in thiier lives, at least we GIVE them something to talk about right? and ****, they can sift thru my comments all day, look at our plays lately becuz of them ;) i aint complaining one bit, just BEYOND flattered <3
thier a buncha cuties. Another thing that gets me off, is while they "investigate" (LMFAO) we're sitting here making more fans and making more musick and more MONEY! this is why i am beyond flattered, poor little POLITICAL piggies ;)
anyway, its time for me to go smell my baby socks, masterbate to pictures of Jesus, and order people to go on killing sprees n ****. :sigh: oh, and i cant forget, play L4D2 with YOU! <333333333333
i loveeeeeeeee you <3333

http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr







SickTanicK - 93 93/93 I Hath Been Reborn!

SickTanicK - 93 93/93 I Hath Been Reborn!



Nov 18 2009 1:06 PM

Wow woman. People actually took your last comment to me seriously. Ya know, for online "intellectuals" i am pretty impressed with their stupidity aren't you? this is so ****ing funny, it goes to show, people have no lives. Least with us, were making $, were talking about a bunch of GROWN ADULTS who think they are online detectives for christs sake, trying to make connections that arent there, are you flattered? cause i sure as **** am, they play into the web of the one who devours them mentally.

P.S.

my balls itch.

<3 - The Demon Pazuzu, Mommaookalakaboobooday. lmao

-sick


http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr

I really, really hope they keep posting this stuff.

Pride comes before the fall, and all that.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:19 PM
I suppose Shrim isnt man enough to join our discussion...I kinda figured, after seeing him in that road trip youtube video, the evidence suggests and it is my opinion he is pretty much a dork. Tail between his legs sort of dude, you know the kind.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:20 PM
I really, really hope they keep posting this stuff.

He obviously hasnt spoken to a lawyer as you suggested.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:24 PM
Razakel [SKR]

Razakel [SKR]



Nov 18 2009 1:20 PM

lmfao! I AM flattered, like for real. I mean, i know there are some "obsessed people" out there, but these wannabe online detectives are by FAR the condom on my fake dick, everytime they say ANYTHING about me, i just feel so lucky that people like that have me in thiier lives, at least we GIVE them something to talk about right? and ****, they can sift thru my comments all day, look at our plays lately becuz of them i aint complaining one bit, just BEYOND flattered <3
thier a buncha cuties. Another thing that gets me off, is while they "investigate" (LMFAO) we're sitting here making more fans and making more musick and more MONEY! this is why i am beyond flattered, poor little POLITICAL piggies
anyway, its time for me to go smell my baby socks, masterbate to pictures of Jesus, and order people to go on killing sprees n ****. :sigh: oh, and i cant forget, play L4D2 with YOU! <333333333333
i loveeeeeeeee you <3333

http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr

"We will not cash in on these tragic events."

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 06:25 PM
Another Peter Levenda thread: indian burial mounds

Anyone know of any such sites in the Farmville area? Perhaps maybe under the new Wal-mart?

http://www.grist.org/article/2009-09-03-wal-marts-history-of-destroying-sacred-sites/

tapu
11-18-2009, 06:25 PM
Wow woman. People actually took your last comment to me seriously. Ya know, for online "intellectuals" i am pretty impressed with their stupidity aren't you? this is so ****ing funny, it goes to show, people have no lives. Least with us, were making $, were talking about a bunch of GROWN ADULTS who think they are online detectives for christs sake, trying to make connections that arent there, are you flattered? cause i sure as **** am, they play into the web of the one who devours them mentally.




Raz, devouring me mentally. Raz. Devouring me mentally. Well, all I can say is, thank god it's just mentally.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 06:26 PM
He obviously hasnt spoken to a lawyer as you suggested.

He doesn't need one. He's makin' money!

Funny, though, that he's accusing us of not having lives . . . But had the time to lurk on this board and go through this massive thread.

Seriously, though, I'd love to welcome Razakel or Sicktanick to our discussion, or, to DM me directly. I'd love to pick their brains a bit.

tapu
11-18-2009, 06:30 PM
"We will not cash in on these tragic events."

Priceless.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:32 PM
They tried very hard to keep it in and not comment like they promised, but we all knew it was just a matter of time, its too hard to resist.


http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/BDX/BDX123/bxp27814.jpg

Guppies.

CharlieChan
11-18-2009, 06:33 PM
Amen Peace Gurl. I think she responded to that Masters degree comment because it was a woman. I stated earlier that I doubted she was a food handler in an upscale restaurant. She didn't come after me. I think the girl's support is very important to her.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:34 PM
He doesn't need one. He's makin' money!

Funny, though, that he's accusing us of not having lives . . . But had the time to lurk on this board and go through this massive thread.

Seriously, though, I'd love to welcome Razakel or Sicktanick to our discussion, or, to DM me directly. I'd love to pick their brains a bit.

I would love for them to come here and I would treat them with nothing but respect, I would love to learn from them in truth. But they wont come and therefore are not deserving of respect. Cowards.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 06:36 PM
"We will not cash in on these tragic events."

Well that was always a pretty ridiculous statement it seems to me. In reality they are going to profit just based on the additional interest in horrorcore and SKR and the resulting traffic to their sites.

Also, if Shrim and friends are truly Satanists, AND they had nothing to do with these murders, why not profit from these circumstances if that opportunity arises? They didn't kill anyone. It seems that they'd be OK with writing songs about a different murder and profiting from that so this makes no sense.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:39 PM
He doesn't need one. He's makin' money!

Funny, though, that he's accusing us of not having lives . . . But had the time to lurk on this board and go through this massive thread.

Seriously, though, I'd love to welcome Razakel or Sicktanick to our discussion, or, to DM me directly. I'd love to pick their brains a bit.

Well money isnt that important to me anyway I would rather have my health and feel good, these people from what I have seen live on marijuana, newport cigarettes and red bull, with a lifestyle like that they wont be enjoying that money long past their 40s.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 06:41 PM
Well that was always a pretty ridiculous statement it seems to me. In reality they are going to profit just based on the additional interest in horrorcore and SKR and the resulting traffic to their sites.

Also, if Shrim and friends are truly Satanists, AND they had nothing to do with these murders, why not profit from these circumstances if that opportunity arises? They didn't kill anyone. It seems that they'd be OK with writing songs about a different murder and profiting from that so this makes no sense.

Maybe Shrim isnt a real satanist and just plays one for fun?

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 06:42 PM
I would love for them to come here and I would treat them with nothing but respect, I would love to learn from them in truth. But they wont come and therefore are not deserving of respect. Cowards.

Sure, I would treat them with respect too. It would take guts. I think their best bet if they truly want their side of the story to come out is to contact one of us directly and have us act as an agent through which information can be posted and questions can be channeled.

Edited to ad: I mean, I think the best bet for them if they want their story to come out on this board is to run it through a third-party to avoid any confrontation, name calling, and obscene language issues.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 06:45 PM
Sure, I would treat them with respect too. It would take guts. I think their best bet if they truly want their side of the story to come out is to contact one of us directly and have us act as an agent through which information can be posted and questions can be channeled.

Seems like they'd just hire a PR person to do that if they wanted to. And frankly I'd say your first advice to him, hire an attorney, was a lot better than this bit.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 06:47 PM
I'm judging the air machine rumor to be just that -- a rumor. The air machine I can think of would be something like an Ionic Breeze, which run about 200 bucks a pop.

Did he buy these things? I have no idea. Surely, though, it was a terrible idea as it wouldn't work.
My guess is......He did not purchase an air machine. humn

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Seems like they'd just hire a PR person to do that if they wanted to. And frankly I'd say your first advice to him, hire an attorney, was a lot better than this bit.

Sure, i was talking more in relation to their "feud" with this board. They could quash it fairly quickly if they so wanted.

edited to add: but haters make me famous.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 06:54 PM
Maybe Shrim isnt a real satanist and just plays one for fun?

I think having fun is sort of the point of Satanism?

But I expect you mean more like Alice Cooper and Black Sabbath adopting occult and horror motifs as a "schtick" vs. Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Page who were actively interested in the occult and at least in the case of Jimmy Page he was/is an active practitioner.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 07:07 PM
Sure, i was talking more in relation to their "feud" with this board. They could quash it fairly quickly if they so wanted.

edited to add: but haters make me famous.

Feud?

We'll need to get Richard Dawson out of retirement.

gxm
11-18-2009, 07:07 PM
I lost track of this discussion back in the 1st or 2nd thread, but when / where did the information about the keys in the AC, scented candles/air machines come from? What else has come out since the end of Septmeber?

I sorta wish there were two separate threads--one for discussion/speculation/opinions about the criminal case and a 2nd for all the horrorcore editorializing and discussion. The latter is interesting stuff, but it's devouring the former discussion, making it difficult for more casual followers to keep abreast of updates/changes in this case.

The keys are in search warrant #7, page 10, item 96 (attached jpg).

I've wondered if we should request a forum, but it seems we all enjoy getting together on one thread so I'm not sure whether everyone would like the idea. The benefits of a forum would be that we could have separate threads for the many case aspects.

gxm
11-18-2009, 07:11 PM
Feud?

We'll need to get Richard Dawson out of retirement.

Isn't Dickie Dawson in "permanent" retirement?

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 07:14 PM
Isn't Dickie Dawson in "permanent" retirement?

He's still alive AFAIK, but haven't you been reading this thread?

An undead host might make a lot of sense.

gxm
11-18-2009, 07:20 PM
He's still alive AFAIK, but haven't you been reading this thread?

An undead host might make a lot of sense.

An undead host would be perfect but it appears Dickie's still alive. I guess that rumor has been going around for a while because there's even a website called "Richard Dawson Lives!"

http://www.richarddawsonlives.com/

I guess they could always use the Feud host who committed suicide. Can't recall his name off the top of my head.

JennyMominRI
11-18-2009, 07:27 PM
An undead host would be perfect but it appears Dickie's still alive. I guess that rumor has been going around for a while because there's even a website called "Richard Dawson Lives!"

http://www.richarddawsonlives.com/

I guess they could always use the Feud host who committed suicide. Can't recall his name off the top of my head.

Ray Combs.
Back to lurking here.

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 07:43 PM
An undead host would be perfect but it appears Dickie's still alive. I guess that rumor has been going around for a while because there's even a website called "Richard Dawson Lives!"

http://www.richarddawsonlives.com/

I guess they could always use the Feud host who committed suicide. Can't recall his name off the top of my head.

The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

Dollar to the first person who guess who said that heh heh.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 07:54 PM
The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

Dollar to the first person who guess who said that heh heh.

Twain IIRC.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 07:59 PM
The keys are in search warrant #7, page 10, item 96 (attached jpg).

I've wondered if we should request a forum, but it seems we all enjoy getting together on one thread so I'm not sure whether everyone would like the idea. The benefits of a forum would be that we could have separate threads for the many case aspects.

On reviewing this, it doesn't say the keys were hidden inside the A/C unit just that they were located in/on/near it. There were also other keys found in the back yard. So it seems the notion the keys were "hidden" was just someone's belief about these facts and is not at all certain.

This document also states that the Sharpie was found under the bedroom window.

peace_gurl
11-18-2009, 08:14 PM
Well money isnt that important to me anyway I would rather have my health and feel good, these people from what I have seen live on marijuana, newport cigarettes and red bull, with a lifestyle like that they wont be enjoying that money long past their 40s.
100% in agreement!

Heroine
11-18-2009, 08:20 PM
I really, really hope they keep posting this stuff.

Pride comes before the fall, and all that.

Well don't we all feel special!

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 08:28 PM
well don't we all feel special!

<3











......................

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 08:38 PM
So you know I sort of have to agree with SickTanick and Razakel here. There's no benefit to them engaging with anyone here. I'd like to crib some notes from SickTanick on his CDs maybe, but seriously, it would be dumb.

If they had an attorney, and he/she was any good, they most certainly would tell Sick & Razakel not to post here or anywhere else about this situation. They have nothing to gain and maybe something to lose especially if Melanie's parents decide to start looking around for someone to sue.

Remember that Judas Priest was sued when a fan was supposedly influenced to commit suicide by a hidden INAUDIBLE message in their music. And this was despite the fact that the scientific evidence about subliminal messages at the time did not support the merits of the case at all.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 08:46 PM
So you know I sort of have to agree with SickTanick and Razakel here. There's no benefit to them engaging with anyone here. I'd like to crib some notes from SickTanick on his CDs maybe, but seriously, it would be dumb.

If they had an attorney, and he/she was any good, they most certainly would tell Sick & Razakel not to post here or anywhere else about this situation. They have nothing to gain and maybe something to lose especially if Melanie's parents decide to start looking around for someone to sue.

Remember that Judas Priest was sued when a fan was supposedly influenced to commit suicide by a hidden INAUDIBLE message in their music. And this was despite the fact that the scientific evidence about subliminal messages at the time did not support the merits of the case at all.

But, they did engage this forum.

Nessa
11-18-2009, 08:51 PM
Raz is all wound up all of a sudden...I think she sat on her dildo wrong :(

http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 08:57 PM
But, they did engage this forum.

True.

annmarie62
11-18-2009, 09:02 PM
I lost track of this discussion back in the 1st or 2nd thread, but when / where did the information about the keys in the AC, scented candles/air machines come from? What else has come out since the end of Septmeber?

I sorta wish there were two separate threads--one for discussion/speculation/opinions about the criminal case and a 2nd for all the horrorcore editorializing and discussion. The latter is interesting stuff, but it's devouring the former discussion, making it difficult for more casual followers to keep abreast of updates/changes in this case.

ITA, this case/thread has become beyond cumbersome. No offense to the "in-depth" SKR posters- they are really, really good at digging up info.- but some of us just want to focus on the details/news of the CRIME and not every minute facet of these SKR (I hate even 'naming' them, as they apparently feel soooo superior to us "pathetic online wannabe detectives," lol! I doubt most of them even know how to properly use a TELEPHONE DIRECTORY!! They're just jealous of OUR capability to see thru their trite, pathetic, and been-done-before methods of juvenile "rebellion!!! And most of them still live with mommy and daddy, I'll bet.:innocent:) ANYWAY!! sorry for the rambling- my point is to agree that we could use MORE than one thread... jmo, moo, etc.

AndresEscobar
11-18-2009, 09:02 PM
True.

Also, they really shouldn't be commenting on this at all. This is a murder investigation in which they will probably at least testify. This is just posturing on their part.

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 09:03 PM
Some further questions for the locals....

Any similar sites around Farmville?

"In an ongoing inventory of Virginia cave resources, 23 burial caves have been field documented by the Marginella Burial Cave Project (MBCP). All but one site have been vandalized to varying degrees. In addition to the burial resource inventory, goals of the MBCP include measures for site protection and education. Problems have been encountered by the MBCP in attaining these goals. The sensitive and sacred nature of these cave resources, however, warrant limiting site specific discussions to protected
sites. One burial cave in Montgomery County and two in Lee County are protected by gates because of recent disturbances. Adams Cave (44MY482) served as a party cave, but was not known as a burial site until a student brought a human mandible and two long bone fragments to a college professor and an investigation ensued."

From http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V59/V59N3-Hubbard.pdf

More here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3904/is_200110/ai_n8954822/

annmarie62
11-18-2009, 09:08 PM
The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

Dollar to the first person who guess who said that heh heh.

Mark Twain?

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 09:29 PM
Raz is all wound up all of a sudden...I think she sat on her dildo wrong :(

http://www.myspace.com/sicktanickskr
Heh..........

dangrsmind
11-18-2009, 09:46 PM
What's Twain got to do with it?

Well seemingly nothing. But then I started to look into it.

Apparently Twain was one of a small number of famous people who had their palm read by this fellow named Cheiro who was arguably the most famous palm reader in the world. Cheiro reportedly also practiced astrology and Chaldean numerology (aka kabala).

Cheiro traveled in India and some of his practices were learned from sacred texts he examined there:

"It may be interesting to describe here, in as few words as possible, an extremely ancient and curious book on the markings of hands, which I was allowed to use and examine during my sojourn in India. This book was one of the greatest treasures of the few Brahmans who possessed and understood it, and was jealously guarded in one of those old cave temples that belong to the ruins of ancient Hindustan.

This strange book was made of human skin, pieced and put together in the most ingenious manner. It was of enormous size, and contained hundreds of well-drawn illustrations, with records of how, when, and where this or that mark was proved correct. One of the strangest features in connection with it was that it was written in some red liquid which age had failed to spoil or fade. The effect of those vivid red letters on the pages of dull yellow skin was most remarkable. By some compound, probably made of herbs, each page was glazed, as it were, by varnish; but whatever this compound may have been, it. seemed to defy time, as the outer covers alone showed the signs of wear and decay. As regards the antiquity of this book there could be no question. It was apparently written in three sections or divisions: the first part belonged to the earliest language of the country, and dated so far back that very few of the Brahmans even could read or decipher it. There are many such treasures in Hindustan; but all are so jealously guarded by the Brahmans that neither money, art, nor power will ever release such pledges of the past."

Compare Cheiro's description of a "strange book...made of human skin, pieced and put together in the most ingenious manner." with the horror movie motif of Lovecraft's (and Simon's?) Necronomicon which was also reportedly bound in human skin in some versions.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XBzdQo4oISk/SVanHCE_fvI/AAAAAAAAA50/t3wPAlDmCos/s400/necronomicon-evildead.jpg

See http://www.free-numerology.org/cheiro.php and http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id25.html

maunsapt
11-18-2009, 10:46 PM
a couple of questions:

1. has Sam's mother ever voiced her concerns since he was jailed?
2. do you think Sam was abused when he was young, when i read that mother was over protective of him when he was in elementary school, even to the point of volunteering in the same school, brought up red flags, as to why was she so overprotective?
3. do you think Sam was fulfilling a role of a ritualistic sacrifice, thus being very attuned to what he was doing, performing the grotesque murders, hanging around (as far as that's what we know) after the bodies were killed, and once the role was accomplished, he called his friend , i believe Siinyster (sp) to let him know he did the killing. and his calm nature about him since those things were done?
5. or had a mixture of drug-induced and psychosis into committing the crime?
6. or a combination of drugs, dysfunctional life, delving into demonism, being spurned by a girl, seething/built up rage that might have helped him do those things?


ok, so these are more than a couple of questions, but i have been thinking about what or why a person, especially a young man of his age, to even do such a heinous act...
i am being more inclined to agree with DM that he was demon possessed... but i have thought of the other aspects as well, the upbringing, and such....

PAXIMUS
11-18-2009, 11:00 PM
Hey DM I just picked up a cool book, check it out if you ever run across it, so far it is EXCELLENT.

The Dark Arts of Immortality: Transformation Through War, Sex and Magic.


Heavy stuff.

gxm
11-18-2009, 11:04 PM
The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

Dollar to the first person who guess who said that heh heh.

That's one of Sam's best quotes… and he's got a lot of good ones. (Sam Clemens, that is.)

gxm
11-18-2009, 11:09 PM
(respectfully snipped)

This document also states that the Sharpie was found under the bedroom window.

AND, it's a pink Sharpie. Which leads me to believe that it wasn't used for scrawling Satanic messages. Satanic messages in pink, now that's some cognitive dissonance.

annmarie62
11-18-2009, 11:34 PM
That's one of Sam's best quotes… and he's got a lot of good ones. (Sam Clemens, that is.)

So true! I have an MA in English and totally grew to worship Twain in grad. school. His quotations will have you ROLLING on the floor, he is so funny and such an astute observer of human nature. Just google "Mark Twain quotes" and enjoy. OK, given the content of this thread, here's an unusually serious quote of his that really makes you think- here goes:
"BUT WHO PRAYS FOR SATAN? WHO, IN EIGHTEEN
CENTURIES, HAS HAD THE COMMON HUMANITY TO
PRAY FOR THE ONE SINNER THAT NEEDED IT MOST?"

...wonder how the fine folks at SKR would "spin" this quote??!!

dangrsmind
11-19-2009, 12:09 AM
AND, it's a pink Sharpie. Which leads me to believe that it wasn't used for scrawling Satanic messages. Satanic messages in pink, now that's some cognitive dissonance.

Actually as I understand it the association of pink being a "weak" or effeminate color is a relatively recent development really limited to the later 20th century.

So why not?

LoveVA
11-19-2009, 12:10 AM
Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

I know exactly what you are talking about. I have lived in Southwest and South Central VA my whole life. In the end, no one else wants to deal w/ anyone elses mess and Farmville is hungry for revenge. They will probably do everything possible to keep it there, and b/c of the economy etc, they will let them stay there. I never thought about it that way, but in the end who is going to come to Sam's defense and do anything about it? No one.

AndresEscobar
11-19-2009, 12:28 AM
I know exactly what you are talking about. I have lived in Southwest and South Central VA my whole life. In the end, no one else wants to deal w/ anyone elses mess and Farmville is hungry for revenge. They will probably do everything possible to keep it there, and b/c of the economy etc, they will let them stay there. I never thought about it that way, but in the end who is going to come to Sam's defense and do anything about it? No one.

His lawyer will file a motion for change of venue. There will be a hearing on the motion. The economy and/or whether law enforcement wants to keep it there has nothing to do on the motion for change of venue. Whether anyone wants to deal with "someone elses mess" has nothing to do with the motion for change of venue. This is a capitol murder case. Everything will be ruled on with the utmost care to make sure Sam gets a fair, constitutional trial and to avoid appealable error.

The judge will rule on it based on prior case law and statutory provisions. If it is shown he wont get a fair trial in Farmville, the venue will probably be changed. If Farmville is hungry for revenge, that shows he wont get a fair trial.

peace_gurl
11-19-2009, 12:29 AM
Where is Ziggy?

dangrsmind
11-19-2009, 12:35 AM
a couple of questions:

1. has Sam's mother ever voiced her concerns since he was jailed?
2. do you think Sam was abused when he was young, when i read that mother was over protective of him when he was in elementary school, even to the point of volunteering in the same school, brought up red flags, as to why was she so overprotective?
3. do you think Sam was fulfilling a role of a ritualistic sacrifice, thus being very attuned to what he was doing, performing the grotesque murders, hanging around (as far as that's what we know) after the bodies were killed, and once the role was accomplished, he called his friend , i believe Siinyster (sp) to let him know he did the killing. and his calm nature about him since those things were done?
5. or had a mixture of drug-induced and psychosis into committing the crime?
6. or a combination of drugs, dysfunctional life, delving into demonism, being spurned by a girl, seething/built up rage that might have helped him do those things?


ok, so these are more than a couple of questions, but i have been thinking about what or why a person, especially a young man of his age, to even do such a heinous act...
i am being more inclined to agree with DM that he was demon possessed... but i have thought of the other aspects as well, the upbringing, and such....

Just for the record, I don't believe in demonic possession. But I don't not believe in it either. Believing in this stuff can be dangerous. Remaining completely agnostic is harder, but much safer.

In this case there are a lot of weird things ranging from the address of the house being the New Mexico area code to the fact that Sam was wandering around smelling like death. These occurrences go beyond Sam's mental illness or his specific crimes. Some of these "coincidences" seem to be leaking from the collective unconscious or whatever you want to call it. I don't really have an opinion on why. Maybe demonic possession is just a way to describe something we don't really understand yet.

dangrsmind
11-19-2009, 12:38 AM
Hey DM I just picked up a cool book, check it out if you ever run across it, so far it is EXCELLENT.

The Dark Arts of Immortality: Transformation Through War, Sex and Magic.


Heavy stuff.

Will check it out.

dangrsmind
11-19-2009, 12:47 AM
I know exactly what you are talking about. I have lived in Southwest and South Central VA my whole life. In the end, no one else wants to deal w/ anyone elses mess and Farmville is hungry for revenge. They will probably do everything possible to keep it there, and b/c of the economy etc, they will let them stay there. I never thought about it that way, but in the end who is going to come to Sam's defense and do anything about it? No one.

How about his court appointed defense attorney?

maunsapt
11-19-2009, 01:05 AM
Just for the record, I don't believe in demonic possession. But I don't not believe in it either. Believing in this stuff can be dangerous. Remaining completely agnostic is harder, but much safer.

In this case there are a lot of weird things ranging from the address of the house being the New Mexico area code to the fact that Sam was wandering around smelling like death. These occurrences go beyond Sam's mental illness or his specific crimes. Some of these "coincidences" seem to be leaking from the collective unconscious or whatever you want to call it. I don't really have an opinion on why. Maybe demonic possession is just a way to describe something we don't really understand yet.

thanks for the clarification, i appreciate it. alot of coincidences, i agree with you on that.

i find it interesting that his SKR and WI friends didn't mention anything about his stinkiness,,, or have they and i have missed that?

i had a 5th grade student that refused to wash himself too, and he believed he didn't smell. he also kept his hoodie over his head practically all the time..it was quite an ordeal to just be around him...he had so many emotional problems, and his 'wall' was rather thick,,, i cant help but keep thinking about this kid and Sam's not wanting to stay cleaned. not that this kid will be the next murderer, but he sure would lose all sense of who he was when he got quite angry.

dangrsmind
11-19-2009, 01:32 AM
thanks for the clarification, i appreciate it. alot of coincidences, i agree with you on that.

i find it interesting that his SKR and WI friends didn't mention anything about his stinkiness,,, or have they and i have missed that?

i had a 5th grade student that refused to wash himself too, and he believed he didn't smell. he also kept his hoodie over his head practically all the time..it was quite an ordeal to just be around him...he had so many emotional problems, and his 'wall' was rather thick,,, i cant help but keep thinking about this kid and Sam's not wanting to stay cleaned. not that this kid will be the next murderer, but he sure would lose all sense of who he was when he got quite angry.

Regarding your smelly student, where were the parents?

maunsapt
11-19-2009, 01:41 AM
Regarding your smelly student, where were the parents?

he lived with his mother and her boyfriend. not sure where his biological father was. he had already been in hospital treatment for violent tendencies, he had threatened and physically hurt his mother. there were times he would be really sweet and helpful. but, they were rare times.

blouAngel
11-19-2009, 02:50 AM
ITA. When I said that his lawyer wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't get a venue change, I meant that his job is to give the most persuasive argument in Sam's favor. But you are absolutely right, it would be foolish for the judge to deny it.

If they send it up to Northern Virginia then perhaps I can attend some of the trial. Northern Virginia is more liberal than other parts of Virginia so I'm not sure why someone thought that Sam would "fry" in Alexandria. IMO he'd have a better shot at LWOP in the more liberal pockets of the state.

Because Alexandria isn't liberal at all. It's a bastion of conservative old money and people who wish they were but made it themselves. The Pentagon is right up the road and employs about 23,000 military and civilian personnel. Marine Corps Base Quantico is not far south of there and has about 12,000 military and civilian employees. Think many of them or people in their families are the type to let someone off lightly for bludgeoning to death 3 unarmed women and a pastor?

There is little that anyone could say as a blanket statement about Northern Virginia that is likely to be true. That area is pretty large and isn't homogenous at all. There are certainly a lot of liberals, and lots of immigrants (who I wouldn't count on to be too lenient to satanic inspired mass murderers) but there are more flag waving, good ole boy, law and order contractor types sitting in trucks on the beltway on a typical afternoon than there are in 100 Farmvilles.

I for one don't think the venue really matters anyway, and I'm willing to bet I can guess what our boy Sam faces if he's found guilty. None the less, Farmville would be about the worst possible place for him if he does go to trial.

claudicici
11-19-2009, 03:07 AM
So you know I sort of have to agree with SickTanick and Razakel here. There's no benefit to them engaging with anyone here. I'd like to crib some notes from SickTanick on his CDs maybe, but seriously, it would be dumb.

If they had an attorney, and he/she was any good, they most certainly would tell Sick & Razakel not to post here or anywhere else about this situation. They have nothing to gain and maybe something to lose especially if Melanie's parents decide to start looking around for someone to sue.

Remember that Judas Priest was sued when a fan was supposedly influenced to commit suicide by a hidden INAUDIBLE message in their music. And this was despite the fact that the scientific evidence about subliminal messages at the time did not support the merits of the case at all.

...I agree...and if I was Razakel I'd feel the same way....if some strangers were discussing me to the point of obsession just because I know someone that did something I'd be ticked off too,but I'd still wished they'd come and talk to us ....

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 03:36 AM
It might offend you, but understand the duty of the attorney is to his client. He has to make every argument he can to advocate for his client. And, she's not getting off scott-free. She's going to spend a lot of time committed to a hospital.

Cases like this and Sam's evoke a visceral reaction that makes us want to see punishment through retribution. But there are other goals in the criminal justice punishment system that oftentimes get overlooked. Rehabilitation is as big a part as retribution or deterrence.

This woman is clearly sick. What she did is horrible. Spending time in jail isn't going to fix her mental illness. The hospital might help. In my experience, rehabilitation is important in cases like these.

Andres - I understand it is a defense lawyers responsibility, and I think (in some cases) it is a truly noble profession. I believe (for the most part) in our legal system, and appreciate the chance for everyone to have a defense.

My point back on page 3 of this thread, is that I don't believe she was insane ... mentally ill - absolutely. But, in my view, she showed that she knew that what she was doing was wrong at times. For someone like this, I fear rehab is just a pie in the sky, especially with the under-funded penal system.

Do I think she was/is crazy/insane ... YES! BUT, by the law, one is insane if they don't understand their actions, not that they are totally off their rocker. I think we're basically agreeing!

ericclimbs
11-19-2009, 03:36 AM
he lived with his mother and her boyfriend. not sure where his biological father was. he had already been in hospital treatment for violent tendencies, he had threatened and physically hurt his mother. there were times he would be really sweet and helpful. but, they were rare times.

Sounds like the kid is doomed. Bound to hurt someone or his self. It's a sad cruel world out there. . .

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 03:42 AM
Crimes against children and animals really piss me off, I am against the DP but I would have no problem taking those kind of perps out and smacking them around a bit.

I'm with claudicici ... a bit?!?!

I have always thought that a child abuser/molester/killer should be put in a bare room filled with parents. That'll do it.

One of the most astounding things I found after I had my son (he's 21 now), is that once I became a parent to one child, I became every child's parent. I cared more about other children, hurt for them when they were wronged, and advocated for them by volunteering in my son's schools for up to 20 hours a week. Many didn't get hugs at home, or a coat to wear at the bus stop in -30 (wind chill), so I gave hugs, and collected winter clothing as payment for kids to come to movie nights in elementary school. It's just so odd ... your heart clicks on in a totally different way once one becomes a parent. I'd be curious to know if others had this same transformation, especially if they adopted.

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 03:46 AM
It's funny, from movies, videogames, etc. I often feel by being desensitized to a lot of violence, but then I'm hypersensitized to crimes against animals and children.

I'm the same way, but I always have been. Can't bear to see animals or children hurt in movies/TV. It just jars me to the core. Probably somewhat because they are 'innocent' although not all adults are (obviously) asking to be in whatever situation they are placed.

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 03:48 AM
I found this interesting/puzzling ...why would Razz want baby socks? after they have been worn.

Quote from a poster on raz's myspace page:
"Juice actually watched most of the birthing.With looking away a few times.. Than he went to go see the baby after she was born..And my placenta wasnt fully out of my sn***h yet.. So he looked over and seen that coming out..All chunky n bloody..n was lik O_O grOSS!!...... Of course ill send you a pair of socks after she wears them..Thats fine with me..lol. But ill do it after she comes home..CAuse they only wrap her in a blanket at the hospital no sockies for her :P "


snipped and bolded by me.

who the heck knows?!? I figured since she was talking about a guy (Juice) perhaps the woment were comparing males, so Raz was sending the sock to the friend's boyfriend as a *ahem* warming glove?!? :dance:

claudicici
11-19-2009, 03:57 AM
I'm with claudicici ... a bit?!?!

I have always thought that a child abuser/molester/killer should be put in a bare room filled with parents. That'll do it.

One of the most astounding things I found after I had my son (he's 21 now), is that once I became a parent to one child, I became every child's parent. I cared more about other children, hurt for them when they were wronged, and advocated for them by volunteering in my son's schools for up to 20 hours a week. Many didn't get hugs at home, or a coat to wear at the bus stop in -30 (wind chill), so I gave hugs, and collected winter clothing as payment for kids to come to movie nights in elementary school. It's just so odd ... your heart clicks on in a totally different way once one becomes a parent. I'd be curious to know if others had this same transformation, especially if they adopted.

....so true,and as much as I love animals crimes against children can no way ,no how not at all be compared to crimes against animals...
I commit crimes against animals every day....I eat them...I try not to but can't stop....now crimes against children are on a completely different level altogether I think,in all these cases we talk about it always comes down to how the criminals were treated as a kid....always....whatever happens to a kid shapes the future and anyways how could anyone hurt a kid?????

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 04:01 AM
Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

The indictments were handed down by a grand jury ... perhaps that's what Farmvillian means? http://www.crimenews2000.com/news.php?extend.1912

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 04:03 AM
Judges and lawyers don't have "breakfast" to decide someones fate, they have trials. Rulings on motions in capitol cases are not taken lightly. There are many, many constitutional barriers to insure a fair trial, and in the event that there isn't one there is plenty of scrutiny, as well of plenty academics and cash to spend to "right" unfair trials.

Maybe in federal court things aren't settled over breakfast, but I'm sure things like this happen in county courts. No doubt about it whatsoever!

claudicici
11-19-2009, 04:03 AM
Have you seen this?

http://www.insan0.com/SykoSam.html

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 04:17 AM
I would love for them to come here and I would treat them with nothing but respect, I would love to learn from them in truth. But they wont come and therefore are not deserving of respect. Cowards.

Did you catch my post about my e-mails with Sick back on thread #3? http://tinyurl.com/ydsneef

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 04:20 AM
The keys are in search warrant #7, page 10, item 96 (attached jpg).

I've wondered if we should request a forum, but it seems we all enjoy getting together on one thread so I'm not sure whether everyone would like the idea. The benefits of a forum would be that we could have separate threads for the many case aspects.

Is there a way to just have one thread or at the beginning of a thread, a bunch of stickies with timelines, links, documents, etc. or does that only come with a forum?

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 04:23 AM
Twain IIRC.

*ahem* Samuel Clemens (if I have to be late for the contest, I can at least throw in a different answer, right?!) :trout:

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 04:25 AM
This document also states that the Sharpie was found under the bedroom window.

Two Sharpies ... pink Sharpie marker found below bedroom window; another Sharpie marker found in bedroom.

blouAngel
11-19-2009, 04:31 AM
Some further questions for the locals....

Any similar sites around Farmville?

"In an ongoing inventory of Virginia cave resources, 23 burial caves have been field documented by the Marginella Burial Cave Project (MBCP). All but one site have been vandalized to varying degrees. In addition to the burial resource inventory, goals of the MBCP include measures for site protection and education. Problems have been encountered by the MBCP in attaining these goals. The sensitive and sacred nature of these cave resources, however, warrant limiting site specific discussions to protected
sites. One burial cave in Montgomery County and two in Lee County are protected by gates because of recent disturbances. Adams Cave (44MY482) served as a party cave, but was not known as a burial site until a student brought a human mandible and two long bone fragments to a college professor and an investigation ensued."

From http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V59/V59N3-Hubbard.pdf

More here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3904/is_200110/ai_n8954822/


Take a look at a map of Virginia and you'll see a line of mountains running South Wet to North East. Farmville is to the East of that in the piedmont and really the lower piedmont. Caves are found to the West on the other side of those mountains in the Shenandoah and New River Valleys.

Indian (or Native American if we want to go that route) artifacts are commonly found all over Virginia. When I lived in Dinwiddie County, which isn't far from Prince Edward, I could find pottery shards and projectile points after it rained. Farmers often find the same when they plow and I've seen huge collections that have been found that way. Those points have a wide range of ages, but from the number of points I've seen myself, there were lots of people around in the past. Presumably, they died and were buried somewhere.

The area around Farmville has been farmed (fancy that) for a long time and there is virtually nowhere in Virginia that hasn't been cleared of trees at some point. If you look at satellite imagery of the area around Poorhouse Rd. for example, it is easy to see evidence of clear cutting and replanting almost everywhere. It's essentially all farmland. The trees just don't get harvested as often as some other crops. Plowing and erosion caused by farming have over the years almost completely obliterated any burial mounds or other signs of pre-European settlement other than the artifacts that I mentioned above. Curious rich white men with shovels did some in too. If you look at where Poorhouse Road is and how it follows the contours (look at a topo map) just above moist fields and along a creek, you'll see the areas that native villages would have been in. It's no accident that the roads are where they are and some but certainly not all are ancient.

Thomas Jefferson excavated a mound on the Rivanna in the 1700's and wrote a bit about it. Here's a start if you're interested in following up on the burial mound angle. If I got you any closer, I feel like I'd spoil your fun. The Indians that Jefferson noticed near Shadwell (second link) would have been traveling along the river.

http://www.locohistory.org/blog/albemarle/2007/02/07/monasukapanough/
http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/textonlyarchive/93-09-24/5.txt

For what it's worth, I have my doubts about whether native Americans were hip to Pazuzu or had anything what so ever to do with the murders in Farmville, but what the hay, January is still a long way off.

Heroine
11-19-2009, 04:46 AM
...I agree...and if I was Razakel I'd feel the same way....if some strangers were discussing me to the point of obsession just because I know someone that did something I'd be ticked off too,but I'd still wished they'd come and talk to us ....

Honestly, I'm not sure if she's ticked off or happy about the attention we're giving her. She thanks us over and over.

claudicici
11-19-2009, 05:23 AM
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/state_regional/article/FARM251_20090924-232001/295416/

I havn't seen this before...

wadahoot
11-19-2009, 05:51 AM
2. do you think Sam was abused when he was young, when i read that mother was over protective of him when he was in elementary school, even to the point of volunteering in the same school, brought up red flags, as to why was she so overprotective?
...

Hummm, gotta disagree on your hypothisis here maunsapt! A parent that is involved in their child's life is not necessarily OVER-protective. I've seen many that are ... like when my son was in 6th grade, we went on a field trip and the over-protective moms made their kid sit with them on the school bus and stand with them at the destination and eat with them at the picnic tables. My son and I worked out long ago how I could stay active in his life and give him his space. On that same field trip, I wouldn't dream of riding the same bus as he and his buddies, we stood on opposite sides of the room during the demonstration (although we did exchange a sly 'I love you' in sign-language across the room!), and I sat no where near him at lunch.

Being involved just doesn't have to equal over-protective. I volunteered at his schools from K-12, as did my Mom, his Gram. We made it possible for him to have school dances that other parents wouldn't plan (and we stay in the cafeteria to serve pizza, not watch him dance), work in the school library to make it work for all the kids, etc. He understood that we were helping not only him, but all the kids and appreciated it ... BUT we always kept an open line of communication, and if he was uncomfortable with something one of us was getting involved with, we stepped back and found another job that needed done.

FYI!

claudicici
11-19-2009, 05:55 AM
....I just think if she was so protective and even sarah said he was a momma's boy...yet momma completely ignored sarah and yelled at her all the time....what was she protecting him from?....why was there a need to be over protective?....and then why did she leave ?....I know he was techmically an adult but I think he still needed her but she left...

claudicici
11-19-2009, 05:58 AM
...I'm trying to find the link to the article that would answer your first question maunsapt,sam's mom did come out on a radio interview in support of sam...there she also said ,he was not bullied in school and things like that....

maunsapt
11-19-2009, 08:49 AM
Hummm, gotta disagree on your hypothisis here maunsapt! A parent that is involved in their child's life is not necessarily OVER-protective. I've seen many that are ... like when my son was in 6th grade, we went on a field trip and the over-protective moms made their kid sit with them on the school bus and stand with them at the destination and eat with them at the picnic tables. My son and I worked out long ago how I could stay active in his life and give him his space. On that same field trip, I wouldn't dream of riding the same bus as he and his buddies, we stood on opposite sides of the room during the demonstration (although we did exchange a sly 'I love you' in sign-language across the room!), and I sat no where near him at lunch.

Being involved just doesn't have to equal over-protective. I volunteered at his schools from K-12, as did my Mom, his Gram. We made it possible for him to have school dances that other parents wouldn't plan (and we stay in the cafeteria to serve pizza, not watch him dance), work in the school library to make it work for all the kids, etc. He understood that we were helping not only him, but all the kids and appreciated it ... BUT we always kept an open line of communication, and if he was uncomfortable with something one of us was getting involved with, we stepped back and found another job that needed done.

FYI!

Yes, I know this, I have been to my own kid's schools and classrooms, volunteering and all. For some reason I thought I had read that Sam's mother was overprotective to the point of having to work in his school as a teacher's aid to be more closer to him. In the realm of trying to find out the why she felt the need to do so, in relevance to his psychological/emotional needs growing up, is what made me wonder if there was some kind of abuse going on. And then again, nothing like that may not have happened.
But, yes, alot of parents will stick around their child's school to volunteer and such.
I am in agreement with what you are saying Wadahoot. Thank you for your input.

maunsapt
11-19-2009, 09:34 AM
why was the mom more protective over sam than his sister (from what has mentioned in the news articles?). why did she ignore (if she was doing this) the sister? this is one of the reasons why i am concerned. there may not be anything wrong too, just wondering.

claudicici
11-19-2009, 09:47 AM
yeah i'm wondering about that too,I'm wondering also why sam "hated" music when he was a kid.....

claudicici
11-19-2009, 09:52 AM
a couple of questions:

1. has Sam's mother ever voiced her concerns since he was jailed?
2. do you think Sam was abused when he was young, when i read that mother was over protective of him when he was in elementary school, even to the point of volunteering in the same school, brought up red flags, as to why was she so overprotective?
3. do you think Sam was fulfilling a role of a ritualistic sacrifice, thus being very attuned to what he was doing, performing the grotesque murders, hanging around (as far as that's what we know) after the bodies were killed, and once the role was accomplished, he called his friend , i believe Siinyster (sp) to let him know he did the killing. and his calm nature about him since those things were done?
5. or had a mixture of drug-induced and psychosis into committing the crime?
6. or a combination of drugs, dysfunctional life, delving into demonism, being spurned by a girl, seething/built up rage that might have helped him do those things?


ok, so these are more than a couple of questions, but i have been thinking about what or why a person, especially a young man of his age, to even do such a heinous act...
i am being more inclined to agree with DM that he was demon possessed... but i have thought of the other aspects as well, the upbringing, and such....
....i'd say no to 4. and 5.,yes to question 6