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View Full Version : CA - Madeline Anna Babcock, 35, Venice, June 1968



believe09
11-27-2009, 12:05 PM
I can't seem to find a thread for her-please merge mods if there is one out there!!!

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/babcock_madeline.html

Missing: June 1968
DOB: August 18, 1932
Height/Weight: 4'11", 105 LBS
Hair/Eyes: Blonde/Hazel
Medical/Distinguishing Charecteristics: Madeline was hydrocephelic and had a hysterectomy scar as well as a previously broken nose. Madeline would wear her hair high and over her forehead to cover the bulge. Nickname Lynn or Lyn, maiden name Pouliot. First married name: Larcome.

Madeline's sister Pat Foy looked avidly for her and developed a website devoted to the case. Pat has not made changes to the webpage since 2004 and has an inactive email address listed.

Madeline was long overdue for a spinal puncture to regulate her condition and was having trouble with alcohol when she disappeared. I have spoken with Venice PD to see if they have any contact information for Pat and they could find nothing. There is a candidate for a possible match for Madeline-it will require the collection of MtDNA from her nearest living relative in order to determine if the UID is Madeline.

PLEASE contact me at my email link if you have any information regarding the location of any of Madeline's relatives!!!!!!!! A big hearty thanks to Capoly who worked directly with the ME for the UID case to see if there was a way to rule Madeline in or out....

BenFranklin
12-02-2010, 12:10 AM
Rodney Alcala was in Los Angeles in 1968. Alcala has a lot of individuals in his pictures people doing musical things.

"Her hobbies in 1968 included singing and playing guitar"

For this possibility to make sense at all, the assumption is that Alcala was involved.

Note that for the below, under medical, it states:

"Previous fracture of the right nasal bone, healed at time of death."

Now the beads mentioned in the "Other:" section, doesn't seem to strike as a Babcock trait, however, there are some Alcala pictures with people in them wearing beads, but that particular person does not look like Babcock and has in fact been identified as living.

This person was found in Oregon, who knows if Alcala was in Oregon prior to going to New York in 1968.


Its a long shot, but who knows.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/762ufor.html

believe09
04-07-2011, 11:59 AM
Bumping this thread-Madeline has a family member who has recently joined WS...Let's get as many sleuthers as we can to focus in on this one.

Peace

Aphra
04-07-2011, 06:39 PM
has anyone looked into the match from above, the UID from Oregon? That looks extremely promising.

momtolil
04-07-2011, 06:51 PM
I agree Aphra, http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/762ufor.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/762ufor.html)
posted above does look like a good fit, right down to the broken nose and height. How does one submit these comparisons.

Has Madeline's family member ever commented on this? Some input from him/her would be very helpful and add to the disussion.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
04-08-2011, 02:27 AM
Possible matches can be submitted to Rocky with the Doe Network. Email (doenetmatch.panel@gmail.com) (Case File 762UFOR for the UID, 428DFCA for Madeline).

It looks like you can also submit it to the Linn County ME. Email (jschindell@le.linn.or.us) or 541-812-5611 (Agency Case Number: 76-3309).

Just Pat 22
04-15-2011, 01:28 AM
yes these have been submitted to the police and proper channels .madeline did wear platform heels and was into Indian beads and things .This from Madelins bological sister Pat Foy The bumb on Madelines head from the bee bite when 14 yrs of age was on the Left side that I recall not the right many years have gone by I could be wrong . PatHer head was 27 inches round we use my belt size to measure and would laugh how brainy she was . Actually a straight A student in High School in Boston Mass.

Just Pat 22
04-15-2011, 01:46 AM
who is Rodney Alcala Pat Foy Madeline Babcocks sister?

carbuff
04-15-2011, 08:48 AM
Rodney Alcala is a serial killer who lived mostly in California but also on the east coast and the Pacific northwest, and may have traveled most anywhere. He was a photographer and last year after one of his trials, the police released a big cache of photos he had taken, some of victims and some of just people he had run into over the years. He's got his own forum on Websleuths.

believe09
04-15-2011, 09:25 AM
IIRC, the DNA samples submitted by Madeline's sister and brothers are back. The profile for the Oregon UID is complete.

There are a few schools of thought on whether MtDNA samples are best compared sample to sample, or if it is effective enough to warehouse them in databases and run them against one another. I will let you guys know if I hear anything regarding the comparison.

Just Pat 22
04-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Thank for the infomation I didn't have a clue C Buff

Just Pat 22
04-16-2011, 12:53 PM
Rodney Alcala was in Los Angeles in 1968. Alcala has a lot of individuals in his pictures people doing musical things.

"Her hobbies in 1968 included singing and playing guitar"

For this possibility to make sense at all, the assumption is that Alcala was involved.

Note that for the below, under medical, it states:

"Previous fracture of the right nasal bone, healed at time of death."

Now the beads mentioned in the "Other:" section, doesn't seem to strike as a Babcock trait, however, there are some Alcala pictures with people in them wearing beads, but that particular person does not look like Babcock and has in fact been identified as living.

This person was found in Oregon, who knows if Alcala was in Oregon prior to going to New York in 1968.


Its a long shot, but who knows.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/762ufor.html

Madeline had no access to a guitar at the time of her living in Venice Ca. I feel with all my heart her ex husband is the perp.We have letters in her own handwriting stating he threatened to kill her . Madelines sister Pat Foy

Just Pat 22
04-19-2011, 11:40 PM
I agree Aphra, http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/762ufor.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/762ufor.html)
posted above does look like a good fit, right down to the broken nose and height. How does one submit these comparisons.

Has Madeline's family member ever commented on this? Some input from him/her would be very helpful and add to the disussion.

Yes This is Pat Foy Madelkine Babcocks sister . Right now we are waiting for the DNA results from the medical Examiner in Linn County Oregon we will post as soon as we know .Believe 09 has been extremely helpful in getting this moving in the right direction .God bless you all for your interest and your help . Pat

Just Pat 22
04-22-2011, 11:49 PM
This is just an update for information on Madeline A Babcock The DNA is still being tested it takes a while according to the Medical examiner In Oregon as soon as thetests are complete we will have an answer one way or another they will let us know and it will be passed on to the Web Sleuths site . Thank you everyone for your interest in my missing sister Madeline. Her sister Pat A Foy

Kimster
04-22-2011, 11:52 PM
This is just an update for information on Madeline A Babcock The DNA is still being tested it takes a while according to the Medical examiner In Oregon as soon as thetests are complete we will have an answer one way or another they will let us know and it will be passed on to the Web Sleuths site . Thank you everyone for your interest in my missing sister Madeline. Her sister Pat A Foy

I hope this is a match so your family can have closure! :hug:

believe09
11-10-2011, 10:12 AM
The Linn County Jane Doe was ruled out as a possible match for Madeline. Here is a copy of the email Pat received:

Hi Pat:

I received a response from the University of North Texas. The DNA from the Jane Doe in Linn County, OR was compared to the family reference samples provided from your family. Based on the DNA, this Jane Does has been excluded from being Madeline. The cases in NamUs will be updated to reflect this accurately as well.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Odyssey
01-02-2012, 11:58 PM
Madeline's sister, Pat Foy stated on her website that Madeline had called their mother and said that a friend was going to drive her to visit her (mother) the following day. Pat did not know who this friend was.

It was also stated that Madeline worked at a now defunct factory called "Plastic Glide" in Santa Monica as well as a 2nd job as a barmaid for "Fred's Tavern", also in Santa Monica.

I have been trying to search for any info on this factory, to see if I could find anyone else who worked there around the same time. If the friend was not a family friend, the most logical scenario would be a co-worker or possibly a neighbor, IMO.

Since all her belongings had been moved out, there is a good chance that she, at least initially, moved out on her own free will... and would have needed help moving her belongings. I think it is likely that a co-worker or neighbor may have helped her. I would love to find out who she was friends with at her job.

I find it baffling that I can't find any mention whatsoever on the internet of this "Plastic Glide" factory though, other than in relation to this case. Is it possible that we have the name wrong? Maybe it was a plastic glide factory but that wasn't the name of it?

Her friends would be in their 70's and 80's now... so I think time is of the essence to try to start locating anyone she was close to, that might have known of her plans.

Just Pat 22
03-18-2012, 02:47 AM
Madeline Had very few friends Plastic Glide went out of bussiness years ago . There is proof in Madelines letters that her EX Larry Babcock said he would kill her many times . I am her sister and I do know she never worked again after she went missing . I believe with my heart of hearts Larry killed her as he threatened to . Larry lives in Goldendale Washington and is still there unless he moved to Oregon to remarry a new victum as my nephew told me on the phone.

Just Pat 22
03-18-2012, 02:53 AM
The case in Oregon was ruled out for a match through DNA testing of my Brothers and I Pat Madelines sister

SideKick
03-18-2012, 05:22 PM
Very sad case and my heart goes out Pat. I do hope info surfaces soon for you and family. This is the closest company I can find so far that sounds like Plastic Glide.
http://start.cortera.com/company/research/k3n3ryq2p/itw-plastiglide/ They orginated in CA in 1912. However, you did state the company debunked a long time ago...
Hugs!

Odyssey
03-18-2012, 05:46 PM
Madeline Had very few friends Plastic Glide went out of bussiness years ago . There is proof in Madelines letters that her EX Larry Babcock said he would kill her many times . I am her sister and I do know she never worked again after she went missing . I believe with my heart of hearts Larry killed her as he threatened to . Larry lives in Goldendale Washington and is still there unless he moved to Oregon to remarry a new victum as my nephew told me on the phone.

Pat,

The one key thing that makes me think otherwise, is that all of her belongings were gone from her apartment. I am skeptical of the thought that he would have killed her and then taken the time to remove all of her furniture, etc. That just doesn't sound right to me. If he did indeed harm her, I think it would have happened later, and not at the time that she went missing. Especially, since there was no indication at the time that Larry even knew where she was.

I searched for Plastic Glide in the city directories going back to the 1960's in the Los Angeles area (the directories covered Santa Monica) and could not find it listed anywhere. Usually businesses that close down, unless they are really small, would be mentioned somewhere - in obituaries, blogs, old newspapers, etc.

I guess I was just hoping that someone may have seen her in between the time that her family spoke to her and the time she went missing... and although she may not have had many friends, we know she had one, the one who was going to drive her to her mother's place... Was just thinking that the most logical (if the family did not know this friend) would be a co-worker or neighbor...

Just Pat 22
06-08-2012, 01:49 PM
How can I get Madelines name on the new Posts .? I am getting older and would love to find her and bury her in her family plot in Whitinsville Mass. I stay active looking for her . Madeline like all the missing had a right to live her life to the fullest . Familyy believes her Ex L Babcock killed her anbd hid her body . Larry impregnated his own daughter from a different marriage after my sister dissapeared. Please help me find her . Madelines sister Just Pat 22

Just Pat 22
06-08-2012, 02:00 PM
I would like to know how to post her name on new post every now and then . Madeline sister Pat I keep looking and pray one day I will find her remains . I have letters in my possion that state her Husband now ex threatened to kill her she was scared for her life .Madeline had a right to life as well as all the missing . I am geting older now and would love to bury her in our family plot in Whitinsville Mass. Her ex remarried and impregnated his own daughter and the authorities do nothing .He just remarried again and moved to Oregon . Please help me post her story on new poss once in a while . I do not know how to do that.Madeline will be 60 years old August 18th I am 75 years young Pat Foy Madelines sister.

Just Pat 22
06-08-2012, 02:10 PM
I would like to know how to post her name on new post every now and then . Madeline sister Pat I keep looking and pray one day I will find her remains . I have letters in my possion that state her Husband now ex threatened to kill her she was scared for her life .Madeline had a right to life as well as all the missing . I am geting older now and would love to bury her in our family plot in Whitinsville Mass. Her ex remarried and impregnated his own daughter and the authorities do nothing .He just remarried again and moved to Oregon Recently. Please help me post her story on new posts once in a while . I do not know how to do that.Madeline will be 80 years old August 18th I am 75 years young Pat Foy Madelines sister.It's not to short

epiphany
07-21-2012, 07:50 PM
I would like to know how to post her name on new post every now and then . Madeline sister Pat I keep looking and pray one day I will find her remains . I have letters in my possion that state her Husband now ex threatened to kill her she was scared for her life .Madeline had a right to life as well as all the missing . I am geting older now and would love to bury her in our family plot in Whitinsville Mass. Her ex remarried and impregnated his own daughter and the authorities do nothing .He just remarried again and moved to Oregon . Please help me post her story on new poss once in a while . I do not know how to do that.Madeline will be 60 years old August 18th I am 75 years young Pat Foy Madelines sister.

http://missingpersonsnetwork.org/2012/06/the-1968-disappearance-of-madeline-%E2%80%98lynn%E2%80%99-babcock/

The 1968 disappearance of Madeline ‘Lynn’ Babcock
By jcotterman on June 5th, 2012

In July, Madeline’s mother and sister travelled to Venice in search of her, and they were told by the owner of the tavern that Madeline had not reported to work the first week of July. Madeline’s property owner at her apartment on Flower Street permitted her mother and sister entry into her apartment, where they found all of her personal belongings were gone. It appeared she had moved out, though the property owner had not been aware of any activity at the residence. The identity of Madeline’s friend who she indicated was going to drive her to her mother’s home was never identified. Foy and her mother proceeded to attempt to make a missing person report with Venice Police Department, but they were told by police that Madeline probably left willingly; her family disagrees.

Just Pat 22
07-21-2012, 08:11 PM
Madeline will be or would be 80 years old August 18th 2012 I just want to bring her or her remains to be buried with the family .

elepher50
07-21-2012, 08:19 PM
Madeline Anna Babcock (aka Lynn or Lyn):

Information:
Missing Since: June 1968 from Venice, California
Classification: Endangered Missing
Date Of Birth: August 18, 1932
Age: 35 years old
Height and Weight: 4'11, 105 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Blonde hair, hazel eyes. Babcock has a high forehead with a slight bulge on the right side of her skull; she wears bangs to conceal the bulge. Her nickname is Lynn (also spelled "Lyn"). Babcock's maiden name is Pouliot. Her name from her first marriage is Larcome. Babcock has previously broken her nose. She has a scar on her abdomen from a hysterectomy that occured in 1963 or 1964.
Medical Conditions: Babcock is hydrocephalic and requires spinal punctures every seven years to regulate her condition. She had her most recent puncture in 1947 at the age of 14 and is very overdue for the procedure. She may suffer amnesia as the result of her condition.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/ar/t3006.htm

elepher50
07-21-2012, 08:24 PM
Madeline will be or would be 80 years old August 18th 2012 I just want to bring her or her remains to be buried with the family .

Just Pat 22,

My heart goes out to you. From what I have read so far the ex needs to be checked into very thoroughly to see where he has been or where he has traveled around the time Madeline went missing. I did read that Madeline had 4 children - do you know if any contact has been kept up between the children and the disturbing ex?

eleph

StacyMarie83
07-21-2012, 08:25 PM
has any of her stuff ever been found?!

FightTheOstrich
07-21-2012, 11:18 PM
I wonder if her belongings being moved out further points to the ex-husband? Was he the controlling type who felt he owned her? If some of the possessions were from their marriage, perhaps he felt entitled to them. Where were her kids living at the time? Do they remember anything strange?

nervous_nellie
07-22-2012, 11:40 AM
are the 4 kids fathered by the EX that had threatened to kill her? i would think if she was planning to move in the same time frame that she was coming to visit that she would have mentioned it...jmo... did she have an "on and off" relationship with the EX? where she may have made up with him and he was going to drive her or help her move?

Just Pat 22
07-22-2012, 02:04 PM
It was Plasti Images in Santa Monica they have been out of bussiness for years . The Mother company was in Chicargo IL .Madeline would have been 80 years old this August 18th 2012.

Just Pat 22
07-22-2012, 02:15 PM
Just Pat 22,

My heart goes out to you. From what I have read so far the ex needs to be checked into very thoroughly to see where he has been or where he has traveled around the time Madeline went missing. I did read that Madeline had 4 children - do you know if any contact has been kept up between the children and the disturbing ex?

eleph Yes My nephew stays in contact Larry was his step father.Larry has anothr son Donnie who is in prison for Last year through the help of Namus I was finally able to get a file number for my sisters case the SAn D Police came here and took DNA no matches yet . Thank you for putting her posting her picture it means so much .God Bless you .

Just Pat 22
07-22-2012, 02:21 PM
are the 4 kids fathered by the EX that had threatened to kill her? i would think if she was planning to move in the same time frame that she was coming to visit that she would have mentioned it...jmo... did she have an "on and off" relationship with the EX? where she may have made up with him and he was going to drive her or help her move?

No on and off relation ship he threatened her life and drove he to the buss terminal in Portland and force her to leave her children and was having an affair with my now dead neice Cathy .He is someone that madeline was very scared of .

elepher50
07-23-2012, 10:14 AM
More pictures of Madeline as taken from:

http://www.myspace.com/499826709/photos

elepher50
07-23-2012, 10:41 AM
From 1965:

http://mas.stparchive.com/Archive/MAS/MAS04011965P07.php

elepher50
07-27-2012, 11:38 AM
What an amazing learning experience - here is a fairly good article on GPR (ground penetrating radar):


Ground penetrating radar, or GPR, has become a fairly common tool used in locating areas of disturbed ground like you might find with a clandestine (hidden) grave site. CSIs like it because it is what we call a non-destructive examination. That means that it will not harm or alter the evidence we are searching for (unless you’re searching for explosives which is another post altogether). GPR works by transmitting a radio signal into the ground. As that radio wave meets various structures it reflects the waves back towards the antennae. The interpretation of the signal is based on the assumption that items of different “density” will reflect the radio waves back to the antennae at different rates. Once this data is received the software will generate a graph of the signal that must be interpreted by the operator (hopefully a geophysicist).

http://forensics4fiction.com/2011/09/05/ground-penetrating-radar-and-clandestine-graves/

believe09
07-27-2012, 11:52 AM
Thanks, elepher. It is important to note that all GPR isnt created equal, but there are many strengths that can penetrate several meters, and can penetrate materials such as concrete.