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View Full Version : FL - Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park, Thread #30


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tarabull
12-15-2009, 02:14 AM
Can anyone point me to AC in any candlelight vigil photos or videos???

Chili Fries
12-15-2009, 03:55 AM
I've always thought SP was there first as a friend for lunch and then as an Indigo Healer that afternoon.

You may very well be correct. If you look at SP's page about indigo ihildren you see he says:

Indigos are often diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) or Attention Deficit with Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Unfortunately, when they are medicated, the Indigos often lose their beautiful sensitivity, Divine gifts, and spiritual warrior energy.

I wonder if DT was struggling with choices about medicating Somer for psychological issues and was getting advice about it from SP.

I'm a scientist (basically a geochemist) who has a big problem with the way child psychiatrists often throw heavy medication at very poorly defined symptoms. I can understand parental backlash at that type of thing. But the indigo healer is just the other extreme of crazy. From reading a little bit about that stuff it seems to me that SP may have been encouraging DT to take the route of letting Somer be the Indigo Child that she is, nurturing her wildness and lack of patience for rules. Maybe they met for lunch to talk about SP "treating" Somer.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 04:18 AM
I'm not certain Somer was the appointment with SP.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 04:28 AM
Finally some news being reported about that one 18 year old punk with a gun...

http://www.claytoday.biz/content/1819_1.php

ETA: wow just read the details, 3 suspects total & one is female!

AETA: Common last name, but there's a house on debarry with same as the 18 year old, tho his address on the court docs is Lawtey FL.

Chickadee
12-15-2009, 05:32 AM
ok, from reading some...the town of OP has their own trash service....could not find out if it was "Advanced Disposal", or not.....out side of the town of OP, uses Advanced Disposal....wonder what the town uses??? I can make a few calls tomorrow and try to find out.....the pics of the trucks that I posted, are two diff trucks I think.....diff one for dumpsters....I think.....
These pics are from Cranky's photobucket.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Somer%20Thompson/s1-1.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Somer%20Thompson/sumer_dumpster102309jpg.jpg

I'm assuming they use Amason's Roll Off Dumpsters (http://jacksonville.citysearch.com/profile/45873833/orange_park_fl/amason_s_roll_off_dumpsters.html) because of the stickers on the side of the dumpster.


(904) 276-****

***Jefferson Ave
Orange Park, FL 32065


The Details on Amason's Roll Off Dumpsters
Category:

Garbage Collection, Waste Management, Demolition Contractors

Chickadee
12-15-2009, 05:39 AM
http://www.townoforangepark.com/service_standards.html

(posted by Kaw Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased FL-Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park thread #10 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4355759&postcount=550))

The following are service standards for residential/commercial garbage, yard trash and recycling collection services established to meet the needs of residents of the Town or Orange Park. (I think that should be Town of Orange Park).




Momtective rocks :blowkiss:


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased FL-Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park thread #12 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4362926&postcount=204)

Oops!! I totally missed that last quote Noway...even though you had it in RED! I need coffee! :coffeeup:

Chickadee
12-15-2009, 05:46 AM
Please forgive me if my photobucket name was not funny to everyone. I wish I could change it, but i would have to start all over again and whats the point.

I am ready to follow trash trucks around now, but then I might be accused of stalking trash trucks. That dumpster in the parking lot by hooters, hmmmm. But the one at
OPJH makes sense cause they moved there. There are as many possible dumpsters as there are perps. Its mind boggeling.

You earned yourself one of these :slap: girlfriend! :floorlaugh:

Thanks for the pics, they are great!!

Chickadee
12-15-2009, 06:00 AM
Can anyone point me to AC in any candlelight vigil photos or videos???

:waitasec: I just looked through all of Cranky's PB pics and couldn't find him in any of them. Some of the pics are dark and quite small, so maybe I missed him. I also didn't see SP in any of the pics, as mentioned before. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.

Chickadee
12-15-2009, 06:48 AM
:wave: Hello whatsmissing!
:Welcome-12-june: to Websleuths!

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:31 AM
I have a light bulb glimmering in my head.

It has been established by MPR that DT texted SP to ask how the kids were doing. This means that he WAS watching them. At that time, he either called her or texted her to let her know Somer was not with them.

We know by now Somer had a history of running off and showing up later "...just as DT or the babysitter would be phoning all of the neighbors looking for her" (she would suddenly show up).

Why, at this particular time, did DT go into panic mode? If Somer usually did this and went to play with other little friends, and SP had not contacted the neighbors (he didn't seem to think it was out of the ordinary), why did DT not just contact neighbors or come home... We have no record that anyone called 9-1-1. Why did DT go out to the park and start searching - get a gut feeling something was wrong this time, call CPC, flag down cop, then they all met at her house.

Somer routinely ran off and showed up later (I surmise after the other kids had gotten home). Somer did not show up...no big deal...AT says she got into a fight and ran ahead...nothing unusual...what is different here? Please someone turn on this light for me. Thanks in advance.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:37 AM
You may very well be correct. If you look at SP's page about indigo ihildren you see he says:

Indigos are often diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) or Attention Deficit with Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Unfortunately, when they are medicated, the Indigos often lose their beautiful sensitivity, Divine gifts, and spiritual warrior energy.

I wonder if DT was struggling with choices about medicating Somer for psychological issues and was getting advice about it from SP.

I'm a scientist (basically a geochemist) who has a big problem with the way child psychiatrists often throw heavy medication at very poorly defined symptoms. I can understand parental backlash at that type of thing. But the indigo healer is just the other extreme of crazy. From reading a little bit about that stuff it seems to me that SP may have been encouraging DT to take the route of letting Somer be the Indigo Child that she is, nurturing her wildness and lack of patience for rules. Maybe they met for lunch to talk about SP "treating" Somer.

Then why not tell the police that? One would not have to go into detail. Perhaps it was DT who was getting treatment and she asked him to stay because it was one time there would be an adult waiting for the kids since her 17 year old babysitter had quit out of frustration.

If I am totally innocent, and want to find my missing child, I am going to blabber any and everything. I am not going to be selective at all about what I say. I am going to be a total basket case. I am not going to have the ability to show any "discernment".

I realize now that this is what initially caught my attention, caused me to keep looking at the tv interviews, bothered me all along and led me thus far. This is what was missing in DT's demeanor from the beginning. PANIC. If you truly believe that your child has been taken (she said, didn't she, that this time she just "knew") you would be in a total stage of PANIC. The panic would be about the child being possibly harmed or dead, not about whether or not one was saying the right thing to the right people. This is why most mothers are really sobbing and unable to give extended interviews... I said MOST mothers. I know some mothers go brain-dead and robotic. But most are not able to morph from sobbing and pleading to a vigilante posture within seconds. Not the people I have seen in this kind of distress.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:42 AM
Issues such as child care arrangements or discussions about children can easily take place on the phone. If one is working one can use one's lunch hour to call. One does not have to drive some distance to go home to lunch and meet a friend for a discussion.

You are CPC. You are struggling financially with issues about supporting your own kids who not with you AND the girlfriend/kids you live with. Your girlfriend takes an extended lunch hour to meet with her male friend for lunch. Perhaps there are already issues going on the the home that have caused argument and possible threats of separation or violence. How are you feeling now?

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 08:09 AM
Friends and caring persons...the garbage trucks are as I write going around the apt. complex and unloading the dumpsters on their get-the-job-done time schedules. Nobody has looked into a dumpster to see what they are getting out of there. It's a simple matter of dig it out, throw it in. The whole process with two packed dumpsters has taken about 15 minutes.

It's just another day. They will take the garbage somewhere and unload it. Nobody will know or wonder if one bag is heavier than another. All routine.

There is no reason for anyone but Somer's killer to think that day's garbage would be interesting. The killer did his deed and then finished the job by putting the evidence in the garbage. He did not consider her as a human being. He considered her a problem, problem that is over. It is totally sickening to know that this innocent child had her short and, I think, lonely, life ended in this manner. But I know that by the time her body was disposed of, her soul had taken flight and watched the whole thing happen. And she sees and knows when it will all come to closure.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 08:38 AM
Friends and caring persons...the garbage trucks are as I write going around the apt. complex and unloading the dumpsters on their get-the-job-done time schedules. Nobody has looked into a dumpster to see what they are getting out of there. It's a simple matter of dig it out, throw it in. The whole process with two packed dumpsters has taken about 15 minutes.

It's just another day. They will take the garbage somewhere and unload it. Nobody will know or wonder if one bag is heavier than another. All routine.

There is no reason for anyone but Somer's killer to think that day's garbage would be interesting. The killer did his deed and then finished the job by putting the evidence in the garbage. He did not consider her as a human being. He considered her a problem, problem that is over. It is totally sickening to know that this innocent child had her short and, I think, lonely, life ended in this manner. But I know that by the time her body was disposed of, her soul had taken flight and watched the whole thing happen. And she sees and knows when it will all come to closure.are you saying that they physically reach into the dumpster to empty it? or do they hoist it up and over? When I was searching, we could not reach way down into the dumpster that was located inside one of the apt complexes....I used a big 2X4 that was standing there to try and move some stuff in the bottom of it.....

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 08:44 AM
Run sadnpod.....run!!

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 08:47 AM
I am also wondering this.....DT is listed as "Receptionist".....don't they do phones?? So why text when you do phones?? odd....MO

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 08:58 AM
I am also wondering this.....DT is listed as "Receptionist".....don't they do phones?? So why text when you do phones?? odd....MO

So that nobody can hear your conversation - you text. I've done it many times at my place of employment.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 08:59 AM
Sadnpod, I do not understand why DT would ask SP to babysit "because she didn't want LE to know the kids were coming home alone..." Are you saying he really was NOT babysitting that day? If he was not babysitting, what was he doing there at the time the kids got home and why did he indicate in his statement that he was babysitting when interviewed? Did they have a chance to discuss this before the LE interviews? If his babysitting was not true, then they would have deliberately misled police in the investigation.

I THINK they had lunch (for whatever reason) and he was waiting for her to come home. But I dont think it had anything to do with the kids. NO, I dont think he was babysitting. I dont know why he was there. I think there are many answers to that question. They had hours to discuss what they wanted before LE interview.

Deliberately misled LE? Hmmmmmm. I dont think it was the first time and I think he was protecting DT. Not to impede the investigation, at least not intentionally. I think it seemed like a white lie at the time KWIM? Does it say anywhere that SP said he was babysitting? IIRC, dt said that. Not SP.

There are several lies IMO, all to protect DT. She didnt know somer wandered? Give me a break. There was a list to call when she didnt come straight home. A list? A list is made for something that happens frequently.

Someone on here once said that somer has more attention from DT in death than she ever received in life. I think this is true.

Anyone who wants can get ur tomatoes ready. I can take em and look good in red. Do I think somer needed her dad? All little girls do. Did he let her down too? You bet. But not like her mother did, not because there was anyone more important than her. His inaction is his fault, but it was based on no resourses. DT had plenty of resources. Poor pitiful me who had no resources, single mom my a**. She has never been single as far as I can see. My friend calls these people monkeys. They cant let go of one hand until they have another. I think monkey describes dt very well. This also btw leaves no hand free for kids.

these are only my opinions

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:10 AM
Finally some news being reported about that one 18 year old punk with a gun...

http://www.claytoday.biz/content/1819_1.php

ETA: wow just read the details, 3 suspects total & one is female!

AETA: Common last name, but there's a house on debarry with same as the 18 year old, tho his address on the court docs is Lawtey FL.

Punk is right tarabull.
AND the creepy eyes are there too.

trigger
12-15-2009, 09:18 AM
:waitasec: I just looked through all of Cranky's PB pics and couldn't find him in any of them. Some of the pics are dark and quite small, so maybe I missed him. I also didn't see SP in any of the pics, as mentioned before. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.

Is AC...DT's oldest son?

Sorry..

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 09:19 AM
So that nobody can hear your conversation - you text. I've done it many times at my place of employment.but why would you not want anyone to hear "Did the kids make it home from school today", or "how are the kids?".....what exactly did she text?????

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:24 AM
Run sadnpod.....run!!

I dont know if Im gonna be able to cam. Im limited on gas funds and have drained two tanks this week doin this. Christmas is coming and I dont go back to op til after wednesday. Also, I am being watched. Yes I am paranoid. I have reason to be. Im asking for guidance and feel it will be given to me and the means... so its a wait and see what today brings...

please pray for me my friends. But there is a murderer out there, and what they will do to cover up, hide their involvement, IDK. But I do know that they know who I am. I am afraid for my family. Is it the murderer after me? I dont know, but I do know DT and posse are.

This is not just a story that happened to someone else for me. This is real life and death. My heart tells me not to give up, but curiosity killed the cat, and I have to protect my kittens.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:27 AM
Is AC...DT's oldest son?

Sorry..

Yes, and the only pics I remember is a video of him coming into church with family, he is off to himself. I cant try to find it right now. Maybe ccane or noway... they are more familiar with the pit than I am.

trigger
12-15-2009, 09:32 AM
Heres a great video of parents picking up their children when Somer went missing. It shows the area of her walk and of crossing guards.


http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1329229943?bclid=1704115759&bctid=45811860001

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 09:32 AM
I dont know if Im gonna be able to cam. Im limited on gas funds and have drained two tanks this week doin this. Christmas is coming and I dont go back to op til after wednesday. Also, I am being watched. Yes I am paranoid. I have reason to be. Im asking for guidance and feel it will be given to me and the means... so its a wait and see what today brings...

please pray for me my friends. But there is a murderer out there, and what they will do to cover up, hide their involvement, IDK. But I do know that they know who I am. I am afraid for my family. Is it the murderer after me? I dont know, but I do know DT and posse are.

This is not just a story that happened to someone else for me. This is real life and death. My heart tells me not to give up, but curiosity killed the cat, and I have to protect my kittens.PLEASE do not put yourself in harms way!! If you feel that you are being watched.....by all means....stay home.....LE will figure this out.....

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:37 AM
I have a light bulb glimmering in my head.

It has been established by MPR that DT texted SP to ask how the kids were doing. This means that he WAS watching them. At that time, he either called her or texted her to let her know Somer was not with them.

We know by now Somer had a history of running off and showing up later "...just as DT or the babysitter would be phoning all of the neighbors looking for her" (she would suddenly show up).

Why, at this particular time, did DT go into panic mode? If Somer usually did this and went to play with other little friends, and SP had not contacted the neighbors (he didn't seem to think it was out of the ordinary), why did DT not just contact neighbors or come home... We have no record that anyone called 9-1-1. Why did DT go out to the park and start searching - get a gut feeling something was wrong this time, call CPC, flag down cop, then they all met at her house.

Somer routinely ran off and showed up later (I surmise after the other kids had gotten home). Somer did not show up...no big deal...AT says she got into a fight and ran ahead...nothing unusual...what is different here? Please someone turn on this light for me. Thanks in advance.

Just because she texts to see if the kids are home yet doesnt mean he ws there just for that reason. We would all like this light.. but its still a dark place for me. If you find the switch I would appreciate it immensely!

eyes4crime
12-15-2009, 09:38 AM
I dont know if Im gonna be able to cam. Im limited on gas funds and have drained two tanks this week doin this. Christmas is coming and I dont go back to op til after wednesday. Also, I am being watched. Yes I am paranoid. I have reason to be. Im asking for guidance and feel it will be given to me and the means... so its a wait and see what today brings...

please pray for me my friends. But there is a murderer out there, and what they will do to cover up, hide their involvement, IDK. But I do know that they know who I am. I am afraid for my family. Is it the murderer after me? I dont know, but I do know DT and posse are.

This is not just a story that happened to someone else for me. This is real life and death. My heart tells me not to give up, but curiosity killed the cat, and I have to protect my kittens.

BBM
Maybe the real murderer of Somer feels slighted - maybe he feels you give way too much credit to mom D. for the murder of her daughter . My guess is that the real murderer wants the credit - eventually they all do.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 09:43 AM
Heres a great video of parents picking up their children when Somer went missing. It shows the area of her walk and of crossing guards.


http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1329229943?bclid=1704115759&bctid=45811860001thanks so much for this video....at the 1:58 mark, you can see the sheds that I was talking about pretty good.....

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:51 AM
BBM
Maybe the real murderer of Somer feels slighted - maybe he feels you give way too much credit to mom D. for the murder of her daughter . My guess is that the real murderer wants the credit - eventually they all do.

I have never said I think DT did this, so where does this "credit" I supposedly give come from? I also think there are many murderers who dont want the "credit" because that would mean getting caught.

I have a right to my opinions, just like you do eyes, and your defense of DT is well noted by the way you come on right when anyone says anything detrimental about her. (especially me) She neglected those kids. Her negligence left somer at risk, and contributed to her death. I dont think thats giving her "credit". But I do think its the truth. Do you have more info that makes you feel so defensive for her? If so, I would like for you to share this and change my mind. I dont and never have wanted to blame her for this. But in the end, a spade is a spade, no matter how much you want a heart.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 09:57 AM
Is there concrete proof she neglected her kids as in the form of a DCF investigation?

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:04 AM
I am also interested in the 1:36 mark on this video, if anyone knows how to capture and lighten this pic???

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:06 AM
Is there concrete proof she neglected her kids as in the form of a DCF investigation?

Sleuth it out Chee.....

Question.. why is that family and children services do not contact the non custodial parent when a report is filed? Should non custodial parents call dfcs every day just to see? Shania's dad wasnt notified, by school or dfcs. How many others arent until its too late? I just dont get it and it makes me :sick:.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:21 AM
I am also interested in the 1:36 mark on this video, if anyone knows how to capture and lighten this pic???

of the man passing out flyers?

trigger
12-15-2009, 10:27 AM
I am also interested in the 1:36 mark on this video, if anyone knows how to capture and lighten this pic???

Sorry,I have no clue. But I felt the same way when seeing that at 1:36. I have to watch it again to see what corner that was...

Have to follow my daughter to shop, car trouble..BBL.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:28 AM
there is an RSO with the same last name...homeless....picture him with more facial hair, and glasses.....can't really see this guy good in video to see if mole is beside his nose, can't really tell his age either....just odd how he mentions "little girls missing" then changes it to "children"....MO

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 10:31 AM
Sleuth it out Chee.....

Question.. why is that family and children services do not contact the non custodial parent when a report is filed? Should non custodial parents call dfcs every day just to see? Shania's dad wasnt notified, by school or dfcs. How many others arent until its too late? I just dont get it and it makes me :sick:.

BBM: You can't sleuth it sad - it's confidential information. As to why they don't contact the estranged parent is beyond me. No, the estranged parent shouldn't have to call everyday to see - they should be involved in their children's lives enough to know when something is going on regarding an investigation.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 10:37 AM
Sad, if you're referring to the divorce hearing, I did see that - but apparently the investigation is still ongoing, or their investigation did not warrant removing the children from her care because they are still with her.

trigger
12-15-2009, 10:40 AM
there is an RSO with the same last name...homeless....picture him with more facial hair, and glasses.....can't really see this guy good in video to see if mole is beside his nose, can't really tell his age either....just odd how he mentions "little girls missing" then changes it to "children"....MO

Gave me the creeps. He has brown hair and wearing baseball hat to boot.

momtective
12-15-2009, 10:47 AM
I am also interested in the 1:36 mark on this video, if anyone knows how to capture and lighten this pic???

of the man passing out flyers?

Dave Anderson of Palatka...Palatka of course is very near where Haileigh Cummings went missing...just sayin'
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka.jpg

paris_paris
12-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Dave Anderson of Palatka...Palatka of course is very near where Haileigh Cummings went missing...just sayin'
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka.jpg

He's standing on the corner of Gano and Bay Circle E.

Ms Suzanne
12-15-2009, 11:28 AM
Dave Anderson of Palatka...Palatka of course is very near where Haileigh Cummings went missing...just sayin'
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka.jpg
This is very interesting.What more do we know on this guy?

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 11:30 AM
many thanks Momtective!! Any chance you can capture a few frames prior to this where it shows his arms? I appreciate you!!

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 11:33 AM
here is a link.... for the Bruce A.....
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/offenderSearchNav.do

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 11:34 AM
Bruce is a PREDATOR!!

Ms Suzanne
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Well,I personally feel there has been bashing on this board by some people of Somer's mother.It's sad and sickening to see.I just couldn't come here any more and watch it happening.It's wrong.I do not see where LE thinks she did anything wrong anywhere.It's just not there.I very strongly feel the school system should never let elementary school children any where have to walk to and from school.I strongly blame the school system and they need to do something about it now.It is very hard for me to come to this pretty little girls thread and not see anything happening.I'm so sad for Somer.I just have to have faith they have a killer in mind and waiting on evidence to make an arrest.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 11:39 AM
BBM: You can't sleuth it sad - it's confidential information. As to why they don't contact the estranged parent is beyond me. No, the estranged parent shouldn't have to call everyday to see - they should be involved in their children's lives enough to know when something is going on regarding an investigation.

I wholeheartedly agree chee. They should and ST wasnt. That is also the truth. But it is also more challenging to do when the other parent does not want it, lives hundreds of miles away and you are broke, both physically and mentally. IMO ST neglected his children too, just for different reasons that dont leave him blameless.

Its my understanding that files can be released once the victim is deceased. I may be wrong though.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 11:43 AM
many thanks Momtective!! Any chance you can capture a few frames prior to this where it shows his arms? I appreciate you!!

OMG.. Looks like you are all on to something!! Ive been trying to download videos and my computer is too slow...

YOU ALL DO GREAT WORK!!!!

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 11:45 AM
here is a link.... for the Bruce A.....
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/offenderSearchNav.do
Help CAM!!! I just get the link... I need a name... rhymes with?

momtective
12-15-2009, 11:51 AM
many thanks Momtective!! Any chance you can capture a few frames prior to this where it shows his arms? I appreciate you!!

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka2.jpg

I can make out a tattoo on the inside of his right forearm...anyone else?

momtective
12-15-2009, 11:54 AM
Help CAM!!! I just get the link... I need a name... rhymes with?

It's Anderson..same as Dave's...although I highly doubt that he gave his real name to the reporter if he is in any way involved in Somer's abduction and murder.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Sad, if you're referring to the divorce hearing, I did see that - but apparently the investigation is still ongoing, or their investigation did not warrant removing the children from her care because they are still with her.

Im not referring to any divorce proceedings.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 12:04 PM
It's Anderson..same as Dave's...although I highly doubt that he gave his real name to the reporter if he is in any way involved in Somer's abduction and murder.

Can you make out the tat? Cant tell if one and the same. But it seems possible,, and the mole... do you see it too.. I cant trust my eyes... help? Anyone? That location is hinky too, where he is passing flyers.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM
I am wondering.....this guy on the street corner....does he remind me of that you tube guy?? remember the one that talked about flea markets? can't remember what he looks like, but seems I have seen this guy before?????anyone??

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 12:10 PM
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka2.jpg

I can make out a tattoo on the inside of his right forearm...anyone else?

I wish the flyers said where the tats are located other than left or right arm? Inside, outside? top, bottom?:banghead:

pingpong
12-15-2009, 12:14 PM
Can you make out the tat? Can tell if one and the same. But it seems possible,, and the mole... do you see it too.. I cant trust my eyes... help? Anyone? That location is hinky too, where he is passing flyers.

Hi guys...I zoomed in on the picture, and it looks like he has or had a bloody nose, or scratch under his nose

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 12:16 PM
thanks so much Momtective....may I ask one more?? LOL...the full body shot where he is leaning up against the tree?? and of course any more that you may want to do while there...thanks so much...gonna lighten and see what I can see now...

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 12:17 PM
thanks so much Momtective....may I ask one more?? LOL...the full body shot where he is leaning up against the tree?? and of course any more that you may want to do while there...thanks so much...gonna lighten and see what I can see now...

eyes4crime
12-15-2009, 12:18 PM
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka2.jpg

I can make out a tattoo on the inside of his right forearm...anyone else?

Hi momtective -I"m assuming this is Bruce E. A. Birthdate 12/10/70. He has a tatoo noted on his arrest info as being something like a rose and a hummingbird. He was arrested for sexual battery/child and was sentenced on 11/21/01 to two years 7 mo. community supervision. He is listed in Kissame Fla. and is homeless. I'm going to do a background and criminal check - this info. comes from his arrest record as a sex offender. Not sure how you got a hold of this guy, but I'll check his other criminal history. Nice seeing you here again.

ETA" Tatoo was noted as being on 'left' arm

New1
12-15-2009, 12:22 PM
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/keinshatten/DaveAndersonofPalatka2.jpg

I can make out a tattoo on the inside of his right forearm...anyone else?

Not really, wouldn't have noticed anything on his right forearm if you had not brought it to attention. Can you make out what the tattoo is? When you pointed it out, I thought it looked like a.....SCRATCH...kwim? I couldn't tell it was a tattoo.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 12:41 PM
I lightened it some and you can not tell what the tat is......dang!
he reminds me of someone......I will find it, I think....LOL

Ms Suzanne
12-15-2009, 12:41 PM
Hi momtective -I"m assuming this is Bruce E. A. Birthdate 12/10/70. He has a tatoo noted on his arrest info as being something like a rose and a hummingbird. He was arrested for sexual battery/child and was sentenced on 11/21/01 to two years 7 mo. community supervision. He is listed in Kissame Fla. and is homeless. I'm going to do a background and criminal check - this info. comes from his arrest record as a sex offender. Not sure how you got a hold of this guy, but I'll check his other criminal history. Nice seeing you here again.
That's VERY interesting.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 12:53 PM
Bruce drives a blue 4 door car - only says CHEV but it's plated.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 12:54 PM
does anyone remember that crazy guy that did the broadcast show about the flea markets, etc...talking about Somer??? I cannot find it....was it youtube? does this guy look like that guy?? I can't remember....anyone??

human
12-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Punk is right tarabull.
AND the creepy eyes are there too.

what is it with those creepy eyes? So maybe they could be involved?

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 01:01 PM
does anyone remember that crazy guy that did the broadcast show about the flea markets, etc...talking about Somer??? I cannot find it....was it youtube? does this guy look like that guy?? I can't remember....anyone??

I remember cam, and Ive been looking. but my computer is too slow. Gonna have to give it up for a few days to go to the doctor I think. I think you are right and I think he looks like him too., but I dont know.. my memory is not so reliable at times

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 01:02 PM
what is it with those creepy eyes? So maybe they could be involved?

IDK if they are involved, but they sure are creepy. Those eyes just freak me out... so many rso's and criminals have them...weird.. all different, but the same.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 01:03 PM
what is it with those creepy eyes? So maybe they could be involved?

BOTH have the same look eh? like "YEAH i funkin did it so what!"

whatever "it" is....

BUT, they certainly must want to look like bad seeds - i mean it's not natural.

Or is it?

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 01:04 PM
I remember cam, and Ive been looking. but my computer is too slow. Gonna have to give it up for a few days to go to the doctor I think. I think you are right and I think he looks like him too., but I dont know.. my memory is not so reliable at timesall I remember is that it was weird, can't put my finger on his looks tho, would like to see it again and compare the two...kwim??

human
12-15-2009, 01:07 PM
I am a mandated reporter. You would be surprised what things Social Services does not look into because of the laws. Filthy house beyond belief? Dishes stacked to the ceiling? Unless it means a child's health is in danger, it's lifestyle choice. Feces on the floor would be looked at.

Here are some that I have reported and no action: Hand imprint on face from slap-no.
Bite on arm by parent to child-no.

Preschooler wanders blocks from home-no

DT's children appear to be fed, go to school. I can't see what a report would be done about. Child wanders neighborhood-not reportable. Well, can be reportable, but no action. I could go on, but it doesn't matter.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't think Bruce is Dave but I think on appearance they could be bros.

trigger
12-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Can you make out the tat? Cant tell if one and the same. But it seems possible,, and the mole... do you see it too.. I cant trust my eyes... help? Anyone? That location is hinky too, where he is passing flyers.

OMG. Esp when LE said look for a person interested in the case.....Hmmmmm.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 01:10 PM
I am a mandated reporter. You would be surprised what things Social Services does not look into because of the laws. Filthy house beyond belief? Dishes stacked to the ceiling? Unless it means a child's health is in danger, it's lifestyle choice. Feces on the floor would be looked at.

Here are some that I have reported and no action: Hand imprint on face from slap-no.
Bite on arm by parent to child-no.

Preschooler wanders blocks from home-no

DT's children appear to be fed, go to school. I can't see what a report would be done about. Child wanders neighborhood-not reportable. Well, can be reportable, but no action. I could go on, but it doesn't matter.

Wandering neighborhood with no supervision when no one is at home?

??????

Just curious, would that get action.

trigger
12-15-2009, 01:12 PM
I am wondering.....this guy on the street corner....does he remind me of that you tube guy?? remember the one that talked about flea markets? can't remember what he looks like, but seems I have seen this guy before?????anyone??

Yes I remember that guy. Looks alot like him.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 01:16 PM
does anyone else here remember the guy I am talking about....I think he was a stay at home mom, kid in background playing, yelling while he is doing some sort of broadcast for his very few followers? He talks bout going to flea markets alot, crazy dude...MO...

pinamia
12-15-2009, 01:20 PM
Wandering neighborhood with no supervision when no one is at home?

??????

Just curious, would that get action.

How about mom's boyfriend has porn listed favorite interest? What if porn was found in the house?

eyes4crime
12-15-2009, 01:22 PM
How about mom's boyfriend has porn listed favorite interest? What if porn was found in the house?

Only if it's child porn - that would be an immediate arrest!

trigger
12-15-2009, 01:26 PM
does anyone else here remember the guy I am talking about....I think he was a stay at home mom, kid in background playing, yelling while he is doing some sort of broadcast for his very few followers? He talks bout going to flea markets alot, crazy dude...MO...

Yes I remember him. He had a webcam in his house. He has 2 young children where he introduced on camera to us.

trigger
12-15-2009, 01:30 PM
I would love to see the reporters unedited version of this interview..Reporter name is Amanda Warford, jacksonville newspaper.

momtective
12-15-2009, 01:32 PM
does anyone remember that crazy guy that did the broadcast show about the flea markets, etc...talking about Somer??? I cannot find it....was it youtube? does this guy look like that guy?? I can't remember....anyone??

It was one of my posts and yes, I thought the same thing. I'll go find the post. BRB

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 01:34 PM
you rock momdetective!

pinamia
12-15-2009, 01:39 PM
Only if it's child porn - that would be an immediate arrest!


So older people showing nude baby pixs of their kids can go to jail while someone showing kids hard core adult porn doesn't. It's a messed up system

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 01:39 PM
It was one of my posts and yes, I thought the same thing. I'll go find the post. BRBbless you friend...I am making myself crazy looking for this!!

zannah
12-15-2009, 01:40 PM
does anyone else here remember the guy I am talking about....I think he was a stay at home mom, kid in background playing, yelling while he is doing some sort of broadcast for his very few followers? He talks bout going to flea markets alot, crazy dude...MO...
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUncannykodiak#p/u
See video: Somer Thompson missing girl found dead

I think you mean this guy. He always set off my hinky meter. But I don't think it's the same guy. The guy on the streetcorner doesn't seem as heavy.

eyes4crime
12-15-2009, 01:48 PM
So older people showing nude baby pixs of their kids can go to jail while someone showing kids hard core adult porn doesn't. It's a messed up system

How do you twist parents/grandparents showing baby pics of their nude babies to be porn? I honestly can't figure out how you get to such conclusions.

Sorry, but the laws on porn aren't black and white - child porn is definitely an arrest but what one does with adult porn, is always subject to interpretation by the law.

It's well known that showing adult porn to children can lead to sexual deviation - not sure what your implication is, but I don't think Somer had any sexual deviations, far more likely that her murderer did. mho

human
12-15-2009, 01:51 PM
How about mom's boyfriend has porn listed favorite interest? What if porn was found in the house?

Only if it was available to the child. If parents had it out on the table blatantly or if they watched it when children could see it as well.

It could be investigated. Depends on what parent says if there is action taken. But I imagine different states have different rules and money available for programs to do anything.

Basically, they triage and take the worst ones first. Cigarette burns on child body, broken limbs, that kind of thing and worse.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 01:51 PM
thanks for posting the video....I don't think it is him either....oh well....

pinamia
12-15-2009, 01:53 PM
How do you twist parents/grandparents showing baby pics of their nude babies to be porn? I honestly can't figure out how you get to such conclusions.

Sorry, but the laws on porn aren't black and white - child porn is definitely an arrest but what one does with adult porn, is always subject to interpretation by the law.

It's well known that showing adult porn to children can lead to sexual deviation - not sure what your implication is, but I don't think Somer had any sexual deviations, far more likely that her murderer did. mho

Don't ever accuse me of twisting. I was just making a statement of parents getting arrested for showing nude baby pictures while perverts who show kids adult porn get a free pass.

momtective
12-15-2009, 01:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRdU77oetg

I think you mean this guy. He always set off my hinky meter. But I don't think it's the same guy. The guy on the streetcorner doesn't seem as heavy.

Me either now that I see it again.

human
12-15-2009, 01:55 PM
Wandering neighborhood with no supervision when no one is at home?

??????

Just curious, would that get action.

The no one at home is a question. Parent would be interviewed. It would depend on the story the parent came up with.

For the child I reported, nothing ever happened ith mutiple reports. He even started a fire in an abandoned caronce and nothing happenend.

I forgot about him until now. He would be a teenager. I wonder what ever happened to him? He was lovable, but a sad case.

infinity14
12-15-2009, 01:59 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased FL-Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park thread #13 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4371647&postcount=687)

snipped from link



With this in mind ... Somer was put in trash in Zone 2 IF IF IF no trash from Wednesday had yet been brought to Chesser.

The link to zone 2 is no longer available. Did anyone happen to take a snapshot?

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 01:59 PM
thank you momdetective.. thats the video and no, its not him. Dang it... I was with you cam.. seemed like him to me too. Oh well...

human
12-15-2009, 02:00 PM
Don't ever accuse me of twisting. I was just making a statement of parents getting arrested for showing nude baby pictures while perverts who show kids adult porn get a free pass.

I wonder if that is true or there would be waaaaaaay more to the story than that. Perverts always have a good story to cover up their crimes such as, "I was only showing nude baby pictures of my grandkids."

I don't believe it. I think that people who want the laws changed so they can do anything probably say stuff like that. I seriuosly doubt that it's true.

My daughter just quit her job where she worked for civilly commited sex offenders. She walked off a job with good pay and benefits.

She said that she could no longer listen to guys 8 hours a day talking about why it was OK that they raped 2 year olds with objects, etc.

So these kind of people say anything.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 02:02 PM
I wonder if that is true or there would be waaaaaaay more to the story than that. Perverts always have a good story to cover up their crimes such as, "I was only showing nude baby pictures of my grandkids."

I don't believe it. I think that people who want the laws changed so they can do anything probably say stuff like that. I seriuosly doubt that it's true.

My daughter just quit her job where she worked for civilly commited sex offenders. She walked off a job with good pay and benefits.

She said that she could no longer listen to guys 8 hours a day talking about why it was OK that they raped 2 year olds with objects, etc.

So these kind of people say anything.

I'll add you to the twisting. I said nothing to that effect.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 02:04 PM
Hi infinity! Did you see those pics? Anything? Im trying unsuccessfully to down load videos. One is of briarwood. I will go to a friends later and try it there. I saw a yellow convertible mustang at the park with teens inside, around it. Couldnt get a pic, but it came from debarry by somers house. good to see you here

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 02:08 PM
O/T

I personally dont think anything is cuter than my fat naked babies. And I think pin was just pointing out how these cute pics can get innocent people in trouble, while most porn does not.

infinity14
12-15-2009, 02:13 PM
Did anyone notice the turtle pics? where is infinity?

I'm here now Sad, looked at your pics! Amazing!!

Noway
12-15-2009, 02:17 PM
The link to zone 2 is no longer available. Did anyone happen to take a snapshot?

Does this help? Not sure what you mean about Zone 2 not being available. I'll post the PDF (http://www.claycountygov.com/Departments/Environmental/ADS-6035-gainsville%20sunAd%20%28M2%29.pdf) too.

http://www.claycountygov.com/Departments/Environmental/ADS-6035-gainsville%20sunAd%20%28M2%29.pdf

ZONE 2
Garbage on Tuesday
Yard Waste on Monday
Recycling on Monday
Generally includes Middleburg
south of CR 218, SR 21 south of CR
218, SR 16 west of Penney Farms and
all of Keystone Heights.

Noway
12-15-2009, 02:20 PM
Tara, there is video of AC in the funeral video where it talks about the family arriving about an hour before everyone else.

I'll find it and post it here even if you already found pix/video.

Video @ about 0:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5jXevmg6bo


Pix from Amanada's PB
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Somer%20Thompson/?action=view&current=fam2.jpg

zannah
12-15-2009, 02:23 PM
You know, with all the talk of DCF, something occurred to me that might provide an explanation for SP's presence in the home that day, if you take all that's been reported at face value. When there's a custody dispute in a divorce situation, doesn't DCF make some kind of home visit? Or perhaps someone had been calling DCF on DT? Maybe she had a heads-up of some kind that they might drop by and she wanted somebody at the house who could deal with them intelligently if they came by before she got home from work. That might also account for her reaction when ST didn't arrive home on time. Just throwing it out there as a possibility that might explain what's on the MPR.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 02:25 PM
does anyone else here remember the guy I am talking about....I think he was a stay at home mom, kid in background playing, yelling while he is doing some sort of broadcast for his very few followers? He talks bout going to flea markets alot, crazy dude...MO...

i remember cam, i'm just catching up....

infinity14
12-15-2009, 02:25 PM
yes, but we never got an answer, neither did infinity last we heard.

No answer..........................:confused:

New1
12-15-2009, 02:26 PM
How do you twist parents/grandparents showing baby pics of their nude babies to be porn? I honestly can't figure out how you get to such conclusions.

Sorry, but the laws on porn aren't black and white - child porn is definitely an arrest but what one does with adult porn, is always subject to interpretation by the law.

It's well known that showing adult porn to children can lead to sexual deviation - not sure what your implication is, but I don't think Somer had any sexual deviations, far more likely that her murderer did. mho

I think the poster was referring to something on the news recently where the children were taken from the parents for 30 days because they showed nude or partially nude pictures of their kids. IMO the pictures shown on TV were not child porn, but just pictures of small kids in the bathtub or getting out of the tub wrapped in a towel.

tarabull
12-15-2009, 02:26 PM
Tara, there is video of AC in the funeral video where it talks about the family arriving about an hour before everyone else.

I'll find it and post it here even if you already found video.

No need for THAT link....I'm familiar....but that's all I got.

Anything else out there?

what about this?
12-15-2009, 02:27 PM
thanks for posting the video....I don't think it is him either....oh well....

Does anyone think he might look like BC, the guy who was arrested in that little girl's bedroom a week or two ago? The guy from Hastings, who also had pictures of Haleigh on his myspace or facebook, and also handed out flyers for her?

Noway
12-15-2009, 02:38 PM
I think he was there, but it was a coincidence, from the lunch meeting, I dont think the kids knew he was there and that dt came up with babysitting to cover no one usually at home.

I thought they said there was "typically an adult there to meet them" because if Somer was found, things would likely go back the way they were ... and they didn't want to announce to the public and the RSO-filled neighborhood that these kids were home alone from 3-5 ... more to protect the kids.

Ok if what you are all saying is true - that SP allegedly was NOT there to wait for the kids ... then why would DT go on TV and keep making remarks over and over that it was a safe neighborhood where all of the kids walked home, and she had no idea ANYTHING could ever happen, and by the way, she was not eligible for busing, etc., it just sounds like based on your premise she is digging herself in even deeper. Especially since so many people were outraged that this woman could be called to account, being a poor single mom with no child care arrangements. Public sentiment was clearly on her side.

And if he was not there to pick up kids, it looks pretty suspicious that she came home for lunch with him, he stayed there all day (for what reason) and was there when the kids got home. And then sent the two little ones out to look for Somer. It just casts a damning light on him all around. And finally, if they lied about that, what other things did they lie about?


I think some may have misunderstood my post.

I DO think Sean was at the house that day. I was responding to the comment by Sheriff that typically there was an adult there when the kids came home. True or not, I think the statement was made because at this time, it was a missing child case, and LE didn't want to announce to this RSO-laden neighborhood that these kids were home alone from 3-5 each day.

I don't think there was any law being broken ... I thought it had been determined that FL had no specific law on age of babysitter/kids home alone.

I'll go back and quote the post that I'm referring to if I can get the multiple post option to work for me!

Noway
12-15-2009, 02:45 PM
No need for THAT link....I'm familiar....but that's all I got.

Anything else out there?

I'm looking in Amanda's PB but my understanding was that Diena had them staying somewhere other than the house to keep them away from the media frenzy so I don't think there would be any recent photos of him.

eyes4crime
12-15-2009, 02:48 PM
I think the poster was referring to something on the news recently where the children were taken from the parents for 30 days because they showed nude or partially nude pictures of their kids. IMO the pictures shown on TV were not child porn, but just pictures of small kids in the bathtub or getting out of the tub wrapped in a towel.

thanks - I had no idea what was being referred to. I didn't see that news clip. IMO if parents were taking nude pics of their babies and showing them around for the sake of 'shock' or selling their child for sex, that is understandable. A month seems like a long time for just showing nude pics - must be a lot more to it.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 02:58 PM
I think some may have misunderstood my post.

I DO think Sean was at the house that day. I was responding to the comment by Sheriff that typically there was an adult there when the kids came home. True or not, I think the statement was made because at this time, it was a missing child case, and LE didn't want to announce to this RSO-laden neighborhood that these kids were home alone from 3-5 each day.

I don't think there was any law being broken ... I thought it had been determined that FL had no specific law on age of babysitter/kids home alone.

I'll go back and quote the post that I'm referring to if I can get the multiple post option to work for me!

BBM: you are correct Noway; here's the link (scroll down to the portion that talks about leaving your child at home alone):
http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/publications/fsp/trainingbulletin/july08_trainingbulletin.pdf

Noway
12-15-2009, 02:58 PM
AmandaReckonWith Photobucket Pictures and Videos (http://tinyurl.com/ydag2z8)

Clay County Clerk (http://tinyurl.com/yghsx33)

Clay County Daily Bulletin (http://tinyurl.com/yed73ws)

Facts I


Facts II


Garbage Zones in Orange Park Area (http://www.claycountygov.com/Departments/Environmental/ADS-6035-gainsville%20sunAd%20%28M2%29.pdf)

Florida Sexual Offender and Predator Search (http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/Search.jsp)

Investigative Check List For First Responders (http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC88.pdf)

Map of Somer's Route (http://tinyurl.com/yebrd9y)

NoWay's MPR Post (http://tinyurl.com/yd6o7xh)

Somer Thompson Book Bag (http://tinyurl.com/ybt9tz)

Somer Thompson Lunchbox (http://tinyurl.com/y9ed32a)

Somer Thompson Missing Person Report (MPR) (http://tinyurl.com/y8wflf8)

Somer Thompson Obituary (http://tinyurl.com/yas3phg)

Websleuths Forensic Astrology Thread for Somer Thompson (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90593%22)

Who's Who and RSOs (this takes you out of Websleuths to another forum) (http://tinyurl.com/yzvcbfs)

pinamia
12-15-2009, 03:09 PM
O/T

I personally dont think anything is cuter than my fat naked babies. And I think pin was just pointing out how these cute pics can get innocent people in trouble, while most porn does not.

Exactly and adult porn being shown to a child should be a big crime. I don't know if PC had the porn safely tucked away or not. He just seems to me to be the type that might not and kids can find hiding spots.

When I was 11, my friends and I caught their father looking at the smut and they knew where it was. Luckily it was when on vacation and it was a one and only time I was exposed (I didn't even look at the magazine but I'm sure those "friends" did). They were 2 little girls even younger than me. This was before the days of internet.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 03:16 PM
BBM: you are correct Noway; here's the link (scroll down to the portion that talks about leaving your child at home alone):
http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/publications/fsp/trainingbulletin/july08_trainingbulletin.pdf


The National SAFE KIDS Campaign recommends that children not be left
alone before the age of 12.

Many other children will not be ready until later
than that.

Also, experts caution that older siblings are generally not ready for the responsibility of supervising younger children until the age of 15 or older.


The following are some questions families should answer before making this important decision:


Is my child comfortable, confident, and willing to stay home alone?
Does my child consistently follow my rules and guidelines?
Has my child demonstrated good independent judgment and problem-solving skills in the past?
Is my child able to stay calm and not panic when confronted with unexpected events?
Have I brainstormed with my child about what unexpected situations could possibly come up while he
or she is alone, and how to handle them?
Is my child consistently truthful with me? Does he or she readily come to me with problems and
concerns?
Does my child understand the importance of safety and know basic safety procedures?
Will my child make decisions to stay safe, even at the risk of seeming rude or overly cautious to other
children or adults?
Does my child have the ability to calmly provide his/her name, address, phone number, and directions to
our home in an emergency?
Can my child lock and unlock the doors and windows of our home?
Can my child tell time?
Is my child able to work independently on homework?
Have my child and I established a clearly structured routine for when he or she is home alone, with
defined responsibilities and privileges?
If I have more than one child staying home, have the children demonstrated the ability to get along well
and solve conflicts without physical fighting or adult intervention?
Have my child and I had some “dry runs” to allow him or her to practice self-care skills while I am at
home, but purposefully “not available”?
Is our neighborhood safe?
Do we have neighbors that my child and I know and trust?

pinamia
12-15-2009, 03:20 PM
thanks - I had no idea what was being referred to. I didn't see that news clip. IMO if parents were taking nude pics of their babies and showing them around for the sake of 'shock' or selling their child for sex, that is understandable. A month seems like a long time for just showing nude pics - must be a lot more to it.

Not necessarily.

http://www.parentdish.com/2009/09/21/innocent-bath-time-photos-get-kids-taken-away-from-parents/

ttp://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/09/19/20090919walmart0919.html

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=7025719

tarabull
12-15-2009, 03:22 PM
BBM: you are correct Noway; here's the link (scroll down to the portion that talks about leaving your child at home alone):
http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/publications/fsp/trainingbulletin/july08_trainingbulletin.pdf

From page 8:

Staying home alone.
When older children are placed in situations of independence that they can handle, it can help them learn responsibility. However, asking too much too soon is dangerous and holds consequences for the child and the parent.

Children left unsupervised or in the care of younger siblings are at increased risk for accidential injury and social, behavioral and academic problems. Florida law does not have a hard and fasat rule about when children can be left home alone, but instead expects parents to take all of the circumstances into account when deciding what level of supervision is needed.

Because chilren mature at different reates, there is no single,pre-set age at which children are considered to be "old enough" to stay home by themselves for short periods of time. Parents must evaluate their child's individual development and physical capabilities.

The National SAFE KIDS Campaign recommends that children not be left alone before the age of 12. Many other children will not be ready until later than that. also, experts caution that older siblings are generally not ready for the responsiblity of supervising younger chilren until the age of 15 or older.

The following are some questions families should answer before making this important decision:
�� Is my child comfortable, confident, and willing to stay home alone?
�� Does my child consistently follow my rules and guidelines?
�� Has my child demonstrated good independent judgment and problem-solving skills in the past?
�� Is my child able to stay calm and not panic when confronted with unexpected events?
�� Have I brainstormed with my child about what unexpected situations could possibly come up while he or she is alone, and how to handle them?
�� Is my child consistently truthful with me? Does he or she readily come to me with problems and concerns?
�� Does my child understand the importance of safety and know basic safety procedures?
�� Will my child make decisions to stay safe, even at the risk of seeming rude or overly cautious to other children or adults?
�� Does my child have the ability to calmly provide his/her name, address, phone number, and directions to our home in an emergency?
�� Can my child lock and unlock the doors and windows of our home?
�� Can my child tell time?
�� Is my child able to work independently on homework?
�� Have my child and I established a clearly structured routine for when he or she is home alone, with defined responsibilities and privileges?
�� If I have more than one child staying home, have the children demonstrated the ability to get along well and solve conflicts without physical fighting or adult intervention?
�� Have my child and I had some “dry runs” to allow him or her to practice self-care skills while I am at home, but purposefully “not available”?
�� Is our neighborhood safe?
�� Do we have neighbors that my child and I know and trust?

After reviewing this list of questions, you’ll have a better idea of how ready your child is to stay home alone.

These are only general guidelines. Parents and other caregivers must also consider other factors specific to their individual child and family circumstances in order to make the best decision

Noway
12-15-2009, 03:22 PM
http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

STATE LAWS (rest of states at link)

Most have None. Some have Unknown. Some are as young as 8.

In the FL area:

Alabama is none; Florida is none and Georgia is 9.

Alabama Babysitting Laws
http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/11/10/alabama-babysitting-laws/

Florida Eighth Judicial Circuit Family Court
http://circuit8.org/family/FAQ.html

Georgia (NBCAugusta.com)
http://www.nbcaugusta.com/features/goodquestion/2793961.html

New1
12-15-2009, 03:29 PM
thanks - I had no idea what was being referred to. I didn't see that news clip. IMO if parents were taking nude pics of their babies and showing them around for the sake of 'shock' or selling their child for sex, that is understandable. A month seems like a long time for just showing nude pics - must be a lot more to it.

No, they got the kids back and there was no punishment as I recall. Just some busybody reporting them.

Noway
12-15-2009, 03:32 PM
At what age is it legal to leave a child home alone?

http://circuit8.org/family/FAQ.html (this is the Florida link above)

There is no minimum age established by law. Whether a child can be left alone depends on a number of factors, including: the child's maturity; the safety of the environment they are in; how long they are left alone; whether or not they can get in touch with their parent or caregiver; and whether or not they know what to do in case of an emergency. Leaving a child alone can constitute neglect on the part of a parent or caregiver if the child could be in any danger of harm.

Noway
12-15-2009, 03:35 PM
The Thompson children were not home alone. Maybe what I should be looking at is the age of babysitters in Florida. I think there may be a difference if it is family member. Maybe?

(a) Babysitters shall be at least sixteen years of age or older and shall be screened by securing a Florida Department of Law Enforcement name check, a child abuse and neglect records check through the Statewide Automated Child Welfare Information System , and a local criminal check. https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleno.asp?id=65C-13.033 (first link)

tarabull
12-15-2009, 03:57 PM
They weren't home alone Oct 19th....that's correct.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 03:58 PM
At what age is it legal to leave a child home alone?

http://circuit8.org/family/FAQ.html (this is the Florida link above)

There is no minimum age established by law. Whether a child can be left alone depends on a number of factors, including: the child's maturity; the safety of the environment they are in; how long they are left alone; whether or not they can get in touch with their parent or caregiver; and whether or not they know what to do in case of an emergency. Leaving a child alone can constitute neglect on the part of a parent or caregiver if the child could be in any danger of harm.

That's only half true. If a parent leaves a preschooler home alone, I'm sure they would be arrested if caught. In Somer's case, Somer needed adult supervision. Any child that runs off needs extra care. I know my son needed to be watched like a hawk until 13 (he's got autism though). It is a crime not to provide adult supervision if that's what the child needs. It's called neglect and if my son does anything to harm someone or harms himself, I could be charged. The same thing goes for elderly. This man got arrested and charged with murder because he left his mom and dad in a car and he went into work. The doors were open when he left them but his mom left and his dad with dementia had the door closed and died of hyperthermia. Really sad because he didn't mean to kill his dad. They convicted him recently.

http://wcbstv.com/local/elderly.heat.death.2.766116.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/theodore-pressman-convict_n_365927.html

Any case, what is the age for walking home alone from school in Florida? I read somewhere that the child should know about safety especially predator safety. I wonder if Somer knew about predators.

Is Your Child Ready to Be Left Alone?

How do you know if your child is ready to stay home alone or ride his bike to school? By asking him. Ideally, your child should know the following twelve points before he is ever alone in public. Sit down with your child and talk about each one of the twelve points listed below from Gavin de Becker's book, Protecting the Gift.
The Test of Twelve



Does your child know how to honor his feelings? If someone makes him uncomfortable, that's an important signal.
Are you as the parent strong enough to hear about any experience your child has had, no matter how unpleasant?
Does your child know it's okay to rebuff and defy adults?
Does your child know it's okay to be assertive?
Does your child know how to ask for assistance or help?
Does your child know how to choose who to ask? For example, he should look for a woman to help him.
Does your child know how to describe his peril?
Does your child know it's okay to strike, even to injure, someone if he believes he is in danger, and that you'll support any action he takes as a result of feeling uncomfortable or afraid?
Does your child know it's okay to make noise, to scream, to yell, to run?
Does your child know that if someone ever tries to force him to go somewhere, what he screams should include, ''This is not my father''? Onlookers seeing a child scream or even struggle are likely to assume the adult is a parent.
Does your child know that if someone says, ''Don't yell,'' the thing to do is yell? The corollary is if someone says, ''Don't tell,'' the thing to do is tell.
Does your child know to fully resist ever going anywhere out of public view with someone he doesn't know, and particularly to resist going anywhere with someone who tries to persuade him?

http://life.familyeducation.com/safety/home-alone/36362.html?detoured=1

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 04:01 PM
The Thompson children were not home alone. Maybe what I should be looking at is the age of babysitters in Florida. I think there may be a difference if it is family member. Maybe?

https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleno.asp?id=65C-13.033 (first link)

The difference may be that a babysitter is getting paid for a service, therefore must meet certain criteria in order to receive monetary compensation for a service rendered.

Noway
12-15-2009, 04:06 PM
Does your child know how to choose who to ask? For example, he should look for a woman to help him.

What a dumb ass thing to say. JMO

Does your child know that if someone ever tries to force him to go somewhere, what he screams should include, ''This is not my father''? Onlookers seeing a child scream or even struggle are likely to assume the adult is a parent.

And as we saw, this doesn't always work. (Referring to video posted long ago in Somer thread ... search for eye opener and you might find it)

trigger
12-15-2009, 04:06 PM
No, they got the kids back and there was no punishment as I recall. Just some busybody reporting them.

I remember them being interviewed. I think someone from maybe walmart turned them in when he/she developed them.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 04:11 PM
What a dumb ass thing to say. JMO



And as we saw, this doesn't always work. (Referring to video posted long ago in Somer thread ... search for eye opener and you might find it)

Sometimes nothing works but that doesn't mean it's okay not to know and still be left on your own to fend for yourself.

They say always walk in packs. Somer violated the first most important rule of safety in numbers.

Noway
12-15-2009, 04:11 PM
Maybe this is a good time for a new thread? It seems pretty quiet.

Noway
12-15-2009, 04:13 PM
btw when I created this thread, I forgot to include the prefix option so there is no Found Deceased in the front of the thread like there is on the others. I've asked the mods to fix ...

Noway
12-15-2009, 04:26 PM
Well, there doesn't seem to be a big cry for a new thread so I won't ... bbl tonight maybe.

New1
12-15-2009, 05:15 PM
I am not a normal mother - I would not have gone on vacation and left my son alone at home when he was 18. I would have worried myself to death the whole time. He was perfectly capable of taking care of himself - it was just me. I worried that he would have a car wreck or something while I was out of town on vacation, but like I said, I am not a normal mother.

I think I left him home alone at age 12 for about 20 minutes, then gradually increased the time I was gone each time till I was comfortable with him being alone.

New1
12-15-2009, 05:17 PM
I remember them being interviewed. I think someone from maybe walmart turned them in when he/she developed them.

Yes, I think you are right.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 05:18 PM
are you saying that they physically reach into the dumpster to empty it? or do they hoist it up and over? When I was searching, we could not reach way down into the dumpster that was located inside one of the apt complexes....I used a big 2X4 that was standing there to try and move some stuff in the bottom of it.....

No, I am not necessarily saying that. Whichever way it is dug out, it is done in volume and transferred from one receptacle to another. What I am saying is that nobody would notice a garbage bag with a 65 lb. child in it - nobody was looking for a bag with a body. They were just doing their routine jobs. If she was put in a bag. In the one photo posted recently, the police were lifting up a carpet. All kinds of things get put in dumpsters and the garbage men just come along and scoop it up. They don't look at it...

tarabull
12-15-2009, 05:19 PM
I see there's an 18 year old on today's occurance report charged with murder:

M, DJ (B M, 18) Arrest on chrg of Murder In The Third Degree, F (F), at 901 N Orange Av, Green Cove Springs, FL, on 12/15/2009.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 05:20 PM
I am also wondering this.....DT is listed as "Receptionist".....don't they do phones?? So why text when you do phones?? odd....MO

They're probably discouraged from making or receiving personal calls at work. We are not even supposed to carry our cell phones. Because I am around different areas of the premises a lot, I am allowed to use my cell phone for work and do not take personal calls during work hours unless I am at lunch. He could have texted her and her phone beeped or vibrated and she checked it?

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 05:26 PM
I THINK they had lunch (for whatever reason) and he was waiting for her to come home. But I dont think it had anything to do with the kids. NO, I dont think he was babysitting. I dont know why he was there. I think there are many answers to that question. They had hours to discuss what they wanted before LE interview.

Deliberately misled LE? Hmmmmmm. I dont think it was the first time and I think he was protecting DT. Not to impede the investigation, at least not intentionally. I think it seemed like a white lie at the time KWIM? Does it say anywhere that SP said he was babysitting? IIRC, dt said that. Not SP.

There are several lies IMO, all to protect DT. She didnt know somer wandered? Give me a break. There was a list to call when she didnt come straight home. A list? A list is made for something that happens frequently.

Someone on here once said that somer has more attention from DT in death than she ever received in life. I think this is true.

Anyone who wants can get ur tomatoes ready. I can take em and look good in red. Do I think somer needed her dad? All little girls do. Did he let her down too? You bet. But not like her mother did, not because there was anyone more important than her. His inaction is his fault, but it was based on no resourses. DT had plenty of resources. Poor pitiful me who had no resources, single mom my a**. She has never been single as far as I can see. My friend calls these people monkeys. They cant let go of one hand until they have another. I think monkey describes dt very well. This also btw leaves no hand free for kids.

these are only my opinions

Just to clarify. You are saying that DT did NOT ask SP to stay and wait for the children to come home. You are saying that he stayed for no real reason, waiting for her to come home? But...in the meantime, the children WOULD come home. So how do we get to the point of DT texting him to ask if they got home? And him responding Somer wasn't there, etc., etc., onward.

I am still trying to figure out how and why they would concoct this story (you say they had hours to do it). I can't picture an adequate scenario. If he is staying for no matter what reason, it makes it look good that there is an adult there. There would be no reason to tell LE anything. He was there waiting for the kids, as an adult, period. Why explain his presence if there was nothing to hide? Please excuse me if I am not getting it. Thanks.

trigger
12-15-2009, 05:28 PM
They're probably discouraged from making or receiving personal calls at work. We are not even supposed to carry our cell phones. Because I am around different areas of the premises a lot, I am allowed to use my cell phone for work and do not take personal calls during work hours unless I am at lunch. He could have texted her and her phone beeped or vibrated and she checked it?

Me and my friends and family text all the time while at work. Its the best invention since sliced bread..lol..Esp at work..Don't start its addicting...

tarabull
12-15-2009, 05:29 PM
I see there's an 18 year old on today's occurance report charged with murder:

M, DJ (B M, 18) Arrest on chrg of Murder In The Third Degree, F (F), at 901 N Orange Av, Green Cove Springs, FL, on 12/15/2009.

NEVERMIND kids....his charges are from July but ironic as heck they charged this kid on his 18th birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOB 12/15/91

pinamia
12-15-2009, 05:42 PM
NEVERMIND kids....his charges are from July but ironic as heck they charged this kid on his 18th birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOB 12/15/91

That's very telling. That means it took 5 months to charge him. So 5 months from Oct.19 would be a Feb. arrest hopefully. That LE is awfully slow.

human
12-15-2009, 05:45 PM
O/T

I personally dont think anything is cuter than my fat naked babies. And I think pin was just pointing out how these cute pics can get innocent people in trouble, while most porn does not.

Honestly, I know that I may get people upset, but people who look at their nude pics of grandchildren do not get in trouble.

(I have changed my mind on those kind of pics over time though. I don't find them cute anymore because of all of these pervs)

I think those stories of grandparents looking at those pictures and getting in trouble are fake.

I think people who do not like rules and laws about what they can and cannot do ,put those stories out to get people upset and talking how unfair, etc. so they can do their own perverted things under the radar.

I am not for porn of any kind. I would say almost all girls in that industry have been victimized in some way ,and now they are getting a secondary victimization. I am very firm on this. I do not believe that it is victimless at all, as the porn people try to tell you. Someday, if anyone has time, read about it. It's a bajillion dollar industry that the pervs want to legitimatize.

No thanks.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 05:53 PM
Honestly, I know that I may get people upset, but people who look at their nude pics of grandchildren do not get in trouble.

(I have changed my mind on those kind of pics over time though. I don't find them cute anymore because of all of these pervs)

I think those stories of grandparents looking at those pictures and getting in trouble are fake.

I think people who do not like rules and laws about what they can and cannot do ,put those stories out to get people upset and talking how unfair, etc. so they can do their own perverted things under the radar.

I am not for porn of any kind. I would say almost all girls in that industry have been victimized in some way ,and now they are getting a secondary victimization. I am very firm on this. I do not believe that it is victimless at all, as the porn people try to tell you. Someday, if anyone has time, read about it. It's a bajillion dollar industry that the pervs want to legitimatize.

No thanks.

There is good and bad everywhere. I was just saying that adult porn or watching it for pleasure is not something a wholesome person would do. I wouldn't want a man who watches porn to be around my kids.
BTW, most of the ones that watch it won't get in trouble unless it's child porn. I don't see much of a difference. If it's an adult it still should be wrong because that person is not treated like a person but a piece of meat. In other words, s/he's still being exploited even if it isn't a minor.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 05:55 PM
Is there concrete proof she neglected her kids as in the form of a DCF investigation?


I'm sure someone will answer this but before I read on the word "concrete" proof stands out.

There is a difference between "concrete" (real, substantial) proof and DOCUMENTED (as in investigation) proof. This can be a problem with DCF especially in Florida. We all know from sad past events that investigators do not document everything and make lots of mistakes, some of which have included returning kids to very bad parents and ending up in deaths.

Personally, I get fed up with semantics. Those of us who are struggling to be non-judgemental and fair and balanced still can't ignore the elephant standing in the corner no matter how many people say "whatever you do, don't look at that elephant".

Whether DCF was ever called or not (and if they weren't, shame on people who didn't want to get involved), DT put her children at risk. If you have children and you have to work, you make arrangements for them to be properly cared for. There are plenty of free or low cost after school programs available in Florida. I don't know how much money DT made to supplement the $40,000.00 per year that her live-in makes. Apparently she usually got off work about 4:00 p.m. Arrangements for that time period would not be costly. She noted in one interview that the neighborhood was so safe she could "fall asleep with the garage door open and t.v.s and stuff out there and never think twice about it" (paraphrased). Her seven year old daughter consistently ran off (for what reason - she had some problems) and remained at various places depending on who is doing the talking: searching for people to play with, climbing trees, hanging out by water, etc., etc., and DT KNEW about it because as we know she had a list of people to call. And I don't care what people say is the reason she flubbed it, she stated right on t.v. that Somer had never, never done this before. A lonely, frustrated child about who in hindsight mom wistfully said, "well....she was picked on a lot".

This says that rather than take responsibility for her kids, she left it up to the good will or availability of others. Depending on the day, it could be neighbors, babysitters (who quit because of the stress of worrying about a missing child), male friends, or a 10 year old. Please show me where a 10 year old babysitting is acceptable? Did the 10 year old have a key or was the house usually left open? To whom? This site and many others have debated DT's role in this tragedy since it happened. So again, the facts. These are her children. It was her responsibility to care for them or find someone trustworthy to provide care in her absence. The children were left with a variety of people or no people, and dealt with a variety of males coming in and out of the mother's life. This child had problems. She ran away but always came back. Not this time. She was killed. The killer knew this child was running loose. Whose fault was it? Not the bus system, and not the poor 10 year old who will carry this burden for the rest of her life.

Neglect. The word signifies not carrying out a responsibility. In this case, it is appropriate. Whether DCF said it or says it now, it is clear.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 06:02 PM
I see there's an 18 year old on today's occurance report charged with murder:

M, DJ (B M, 18) Arrest on chrg of Murder In The Third Degree, F (F), at 901 N Orange Av, Green Cove Springs, FL, on 12/15/2009.

Woah... I will go look..

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 06:06 PM
Well,I personally feel there has been bashing on this board by some people of Somer's mother.It's sad and sickening to see.I just couldn't come here any more and watch it happening.It's wrong.I do not see where LE thinks she did anything wrong anywhere.It's just not there.I very strongly feel the school system should never let elementary school children any where have to walk to and from school.I strongly blame the school system and they need to do something about it now.It is very hard for me to come to this pretty little girls thread and not see anything happening.I'm so sad for Somer.I just have to have faith they have a killer in mind and waiting on evidence to make an arrest.


I respectfully disagree with you regarding the school system. The school system is in place to educate children. The school system needs the assistance of reliable and involved parents to make choices regarding the children. The school system is not responsible for children after school. Nevertheless, the school system and the board of education do everything they can to make resources available to parents, regardless of their ability to pay. There are plenty of clubs, activities and after school programs available. But it is not up to seven year old children to make these arrangements. There are also ways parents could and should get involved in issues like this. Plenty of moms who do not work and could be monitors, lots of creative ways that children can be kept safe if people care enough to implement them.

We are talking about a seven year old who ran off for more than an hour every day and frustrated everyone who watched her. It was not the school system's responsibility to deal with this issue, and from what is being reported here, it's likely that the teachers were concerned about her. But they are not her parents.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 06:22 PM
Just to clarify. You are saying that DT did NOT ask SP to stay and wait for the children to come home. You are saying that he stayed for no real reason, waiting for her to come home? But...in the meantime, the children WOULD come home. So how do we get to the point of DT texting him to ask if they got home? And him responding Somer wasn't there, etc., etc., onward.

I am still trying to figure out how and why they would concoct this story (you say they had hours to do it). I can't picture an adequate scenario. If he is staying for no matter what reason, it makes it look good that there is an adult there. There would be no reason to tell LE anything. He was there waiting for the kids, as an adult, period. Why explain his presence if there was nothing to hide? Please excuse me if I am not getting it. Thanks.

What I am saying is that he wasnt there to babysit. I think thats why he sent AT back out twice and didnt immediately call DT. It wasnt his responsibility. I think his presence would need to be explained to LE, at least I hope so since it was something unusual. He had never babysat before, friends for years, but never responsible for the kids before this day. I think odds were on any other day that noone was there. Possibly AB, but she had a babysitter pick up her own daughter, so I assume she wasnt there in the afternoons either, at least not every day. I think DT said SP was there for the kids because his presence needed explanation, as well as supplying an adult babysitter for LE. Please excuse me if it doesnt make sense..:crazy:

pinamia
12-15-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm sure someone will answer this but before I read on the word "concrete" proof stands out.

There is a difference between "concrete" (real, substantial) proof and DOCUMENTED (as in investigation) proof. This can be a problem with DCF especially in Florida. We all know from sad past events that investigators do not document everything and make lots of mistakes, some of which have included returning kids to very bad parents and ending up in deaths.

Personally, I get fed up with semantics. Those of us who are struggling to be non-judgemental and fair and balanced still can't ignore the elephant standing in the corner no matter how many people say "whatever you do, don't look at that elephant".

Whether DCF was ever called or not (and if they weren't, shame on people who didn't want to get involved), DT put her children at risk. If you have children and you have to work, you make arrangements for them to be properly cared for. There are plenty of free or low cost after school programs available in Florida. I don't know how much money DT made to supplement the $40,000.00 per year that her live-in makes. Apparently she usually got off work about 4:00 p.m. Arrangements for that time period would not be costly. She noted in one interview that the neighborhood was so safe she could "fall asleep with the garage door open and t.v.s and stuff out there and never think twice about it" (paraphrased). Her seven year old daughter consistently ran off (for what reason - she had some problems) and remained at various places depending on who is doing the talking: searching for people to play with, climbing trees, hanging out by water, etc., etc., and DT KNEW about it because as we know she had a list of people to call. And I don't care what people say is the reason she flubbed it, she stated right on t.v. that Somer had never, never done this before. A lonely, frustrated child about who in hindsight mom wistfully said, "well....she was picked on a lot".

This says that rather than take responsibility for her kids, she left it up to the good will or availability of others. Depending on the day, it could be neighbors, babysitters (who quit because of the stress of worrying about a missing child), male friends, or a 10 year old. Please show me where a 10 year old babysitting is acceptable? Did the 10 year old have a key or was the house usually left open? To whom? This site and many others have debated DT's role in this tragedy since it happened. So again, the facts. These are her children. It was her responsibility to care for them or find someone trustworthy to provide care in her absence. The children were left with a variety of people or no people, and dealt with a variety of males coming in and out of the mother's life. This child had problems. She ran away but always came back. Not this time. She was killed. The killer knew this child was running loose. Whose fault was it? Not the bus system, and not the poor 10 year old who will carry this burden for the rest of her life.

Neglect. The word signifies not carrying out a responsibility. In this case, it is appropriate. Whether DCF said it or says it now, it is clear.

Well said. You said everything I've been thinking since day one. I think DT was unable to care for Somer the way she needed to be cared for. Somer needed so much more and deserved so much more.

I blame DT's parents and sisters for not intervening. They must have known how Somer was as well. Everyone must have known. How this woman was allowed to neglect this child is horrifying. Didn't anyone report her? This murder didn't have to happen. If only some adult cared to help get her home safely that day. I don't think Somer should have walked a mile home from school. She was way too young.

human
12-15-2009, 06:26 PM
I respectfully disagree with you regarding the school system. The school system is in place to educate children. The school system needs the assistance of reliable and involved parents to make choices regarding the children. The school system is not responsible for children after school. Nevertheless, the school system and the board of education do everything they can to make resources available to parents, regardless of their ability to pay. There are plenty of clubs, activities and after school programs available. But it is not up to seven year old children to make these arrangements. There are also ways parents could and should get involved in issues like this. Plenty of moms who do not work and could be monitors, lots of creative ways that children can be kept safe if people care enough to implement them.

We are talking about a seven year old who ran off for more than an hour every day and frustrated everyone who watched her. It was not the school system's responsibility to deal with this issue, and from what is being reported here, it's likely that the teachers were concerned about her. But they are not her parents.

I can tell you that some teachers of 7 year old children do make them responsible. If a child can't get to school because the parent is sleeping or whatever, I have seen teachers purchase alarm clocks for children so they can come to school because the children do want to come to school.

I am laughing (but sadly) on your statement that it isn't up to 7 year old children to make the arrangements. Hear! Hear!!!

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 06:28 PM
I'm sure someone will answer this but before I read on the word "concrete" proof stands out.

There is a difference between "concrete" (real, substantial) proof and DOCUMENTED (as in investigation) proof. This can be a problem with DCF especially in Florida. We all know from sad past events that investigators do not document everything and make lots of mistakes, some of which have included returning kids to very bad parents and ending up in deaths.

Personally, I get fed up with semantics. Those of us who are struggling to be non-judgemental and fair and balanced still can't ignore the elephant standing in the corner no matter how many people say "whatever you do, don't look at that elephant".

Whether DCF was ever called or not (and if they weren't, shame on people who didn't want to get involved), DT put her children at risk. If you have children and you have to work, you make arrangements for them to be properly cared for. There are plenty of free or low cost after school programs available in Florida. I don't know how much money DT made to supplement the $40,000.00 per year that her live-in makes. Apparently she usually got off work about 4:00 p.m. Arrangements for that time period would not be costly. She noted in one interview that the neighborhood was so safe she could "fall asleep with the garage door open and t.v.s and stuff out there and never think twice about it" (paraphrased). Her seven year old daughter consistently ran off (for what reason - she had some problems) and remained at various places depending on who is doing the talking: searching for people to play with, climbing trees, hanging out by water, etc., etc., and DT KNEW about it because as we know she had a list of people to call. And I don't care what people say is the reason she flubbed it, she stated right on t.v. that Somer had never, never done this before. A lonely, frustrated child about who in hindsight mom wistfully said, "well....she was picked on a lot".

This says that rather than take responsibility for her kids, she left it up to the good will or availability of others. Depending on the day, it could be neighbors, babysitters (who quit because of the stress of worrying about a missing child), male friends, or a 10 year old. Please show me where a 10 year old babysitting is acceptable? Did the 10 year old have a key or was the house usually left open? To whom? This site and many others have debated DT's role in this tragedy since it happened. So again, the facts. These are her children. It was her responsibility to care for them or find someone trustworthy to provide care in her absence. The children were left with a variety of people or no people, and dealt with a variety of males coming in and out of the mother's life. This child had problems. She ran away but always came back. Not this time. She was killed. The killer knew this child was running loose. Whose fault was it? Not the bus system, and not the poor 10 year old who will carry this burden for the rest of her life.

Neglect. The word signifies not carrying out a responsibility. In this case, it is appropriate. Whether DCF said it or says it now, it is clear.

*Chill out there chickenpants. To be perfectly honest, none of this gives anyone the right to murder another human being - PERIOD.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 06:32 PM
*Chill out there chickenpants. To be perfectly honest, none of this gives anyone the right to murder another human being - PERIOD.

Just the opportunity which is basically the most important component.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 06:32 PM
Me and my friends and family text all the time while at work. Its the best invention since sliced bread..lol..Esp at work..Don't start its addicting...


Not where I work. One issue is patient confidentiality. You are not allowed to snap photos, even if the pt. says they want it, without a written release, under strict supervision. Administrator posted anyone caught with cell phone at work, immediate dismissal.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 06:39 PM
Just the opportunity which is basically the most important component.

The opportunity is always there pin.... just look at Polly Klass, Elizabeth Smart (who luckily was not murdered), Samantha Runyion, Jessica Lunsford, and the list goes on and on.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 06:46 PM
The opportunity is always there pin.... just look at Polly Klass, Elizabeth Smart (who luckily was not murdered), Samantha Runyion, Jessica Lunsford, and the list goes on and on.

No opportunity isn't always there. You can't leave a child unsupervised and then say it's the murderers fault alone. Kids need to be supervised.

Opportunity decreases with supervision if it didn't the list would be through the roof. Polly Klass, Jessica Lunsford Danielle Van Damm and Elizabeth Smart were taken from their own homes in the middle of the night. A simple alarm system could have helped. Samantha Runyion was left unsupervised outside by her grandmother.

http://www.happinessonline.org/LoveAndHelpChildren/index.html

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:03 PM
What I am saying is that he wasnt there to babysit. I think thats why he sent AT back out twice and didnt immediately call DT. It wasnt his responsibility. I think his presence would need to be explained to LE, at least I hope so since it was something unusual. He had never babysat before, friends for years, but never responsible for the kids before this day. I think odds were on any other day that noone was there. Possibly AB, but she had a babysitter pick up her own daughter, so I assume she wasnt there in the afternoons either, at least not every day. I think DT said SP was there for the kids because his presence needed explanation, as well as supplying an adult babysitter for LE. Please excuse me if it doesnt make sense..:crazy:

Yes...it (sadly) makes sense. So have lunch with DT, hang around for no apparent reason, oh here come the kids, whatever...Somer isn't there? So? What else is new? Go out and look for her. Ahhhh....I don't wanna call your mom. I'll just sit here and meditate on her indigo deficiencies and how she is has problems but not MY problem. WHOSE PROBLEM WAS IT? Who cared?????????????????

txsvicki
12-15-2009, 07:04 PM
No opportunity isn't always there. You can't leave a child unsupervised and then say it's the murderers fault alone. Kids need to be supervised.

Opportunity decreases with supervision if it didn't the list would be through the roof. Polly Klass, Jessica Lunsford Danielle Van Damm and Elizabeth Smart were taken from their own homes in the middle of the night. A simple alarm system could have helped. Samantha Runyion was left unsupervised outside by her grandmother.

http://www.happinessonline.org/LoveAndHelpChildren/index.html

I agree. An alarm system or even simple stick on door and window alarms plus a very alert protective dog roaming the house or sleeping with the kids would also have helped. None of the people listed above were at fault, but we pretty much all know now that we have to provide constant supervision plus take extra precautions and just hope that some nut doesn't bust in with a gun like happened to the Groenes.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:12 PM
*Chill out there chickenpants. To be perfectly honest, none of this gives anyone the right to murder another human being - PERIOD.


I honestly do not know what you mean.

You asked for some kind of evidence that DT was neglectful, specifically were there DCF reports. I responded regarding all of the "concrete" ways DT did not provide adequate supervision for Somer and her siblings.

The murderer was given the opportunity to kill this little girl because she was by herself. If she had been with an adult, this would not have happened. No adult supervision was provided. What does this have to do with the murderer having the "right" to kill. A murderer will murder if he can murder.

It seems as if you are saying that DT should not be accountable for any of the circumstances and implying that the murderer acted in a way that is not connected to those circumstances, and I disagree.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:19 PM
Can anyone tell me if DT was involved with Harleys, motorcycles, the motorcycle community before she had a relationship with CPC? When I saw her interacting on TV during the fund-raiser and concert, she seemed to be oddly out of place, even though she was wearing a bandana and fake face tatoo, etc. If you look at the crowd out there, and then up at her, she doesn't fit in, somehow. I know one thing, the little one up on the stage looked REALLY uncomfortable. It's not that important, I am just wondering.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:26 PM
Does anyone else think that the reason SP is the administrator on the VYSTAR account for family donations is because he works at a "lending" institution? Would there be any other logical reason to put him in charge of such a large amount of money? As he was a pallbearer at the funeral and is now connected in such a significant way with this money, it seems to me that he is indeed a very valued and intimate friend. CPC is not technically "family", is he? I mean, they are not married.

I wonder who has access to make withdrawals for that account, not that it has direct bearing on a murder. Just strange circumstances surrounding Somer's world. I think there was another fundraiser recently. Does anybody know if CPC is still working, or if SP's healing practice is still up and running?

Just wondering since LE pointed out that any significant changes in a person's demeanor or lifestyle following the crime would be a reason to pause and take a look. No tomatoes, please. I have an acid problem. lol

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:29 PM
Oh go ahead and throw the tomatoes...I was wondering....do ST (DT's soon to be ex) and the older girl (step sibling of Somer who does not live here) qualify for therapy or assistance since they lost a loved one through a violent crime? Are they beneficiary of any funds raised in memory of daughter/sister? Or does it depend on where one lives in proximity to the scene of the crime? It just seems to me that if DT is hurting, then everyone in Somer's family is hurting, too.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:34 PM
The opportunity is always there pin.... just look at Polly Klass, Elizabeth Smart (who luckily was not murdered), Samantha Runyion, Jessica Lunsford, and the list goes on and on.

Yes, I was just thinking of all of those cases. ONe only has to log on to WS to see how awful it is. And they are on the news every day. Horrendous crimes - it seems that each time it is worse it rachets up even more like a sick competition.

So that is even more reason to be cautious. DT had to be aware of these things you are talking about, too. Why didn't she do something to protect her kids ... why ask for trouble?

Ms Suzanne
12-15-2009, 07:34 PM
Are there any new facts or any new information released on Somers Murder.Maybe it's good to stick and look at most of the facts known on Somers case.Maybe we will hear more soon.

what about this?
12-15-2009, 07:35 PM
I honestly do not know what you mean.

You asked for some kind of evidence that DT was neglectful, specifically were there DCF reports. I responded regarding all of the "concrete" ways DT did not provide adequate supervision for Somer and her siblings.

The murderer was given the opportunity to kill this little girl because she was by herself. If she had been with an adult, this would not have happened. No adult supervision was provided. What does this have to do with the murderer having the "right" to kill. A murderer will murder if he can murder.

It seems as if you are saying that DT should not be accountable for any of the circumstances and implying that the murderer acted in a way that is not connected to those circumstances, and I disagree.

I agree with you that the opportunity was there, and was there often, as the perp may have known. However, sadly, if someone Somer knew personally wanted her gone (in retaliation for something or for any other reason), they would have found a way even if she had been better supervised.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 07:39 PM
I honestly do not know what you mean.

You asked for some kind of evidence that DT was neglectful, specifically were there DCF reports. I responded regarding all of the "concrete" ways DT did not provide adequate supervision for Somer and her siblings.

The murderer was given the opportunity to kill this little girl because she was by herself. If she had been with an adult, this would not have happened. No adult supervision was provided. What does this have to do with the murderer having the "right" to kill. A murderer will murder if he can murder.

It seems as if you are saying that DT should not be accountable for any of the circumstances and implying that the murderer acted in a way that is not connected to those circumstances, and I disagree.

I asked for concrete proof that the DCF was previously called to investigate DT last year (which was said by a poster)... that's all. Is this a fact or just hearsay...because if it is a fact, then apparently they did not find sufficient evidence to remove the kids from her care - kwim?

pinamia
12-15-2009, 07:39 PM
I agree. An alarm system or even simple stick on door and window alarms plus a very alert protective dog roaming the house or sleeping with the kids would also have helped. None of the people listed above were at fault, but we pretty much all know now that we have to provide constant supervision plus take extra precautions and just hope that some nut doesn't bust in with a gun like happened to the Groenes.



We have to work very hard not to be victims in this world. From identity theft to child abductions. Our safety is in our own hands. We can take proactive steps or just trust that others will do the right thing which they often don't.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 07:39 PM
Are there any new facts or any new information released on Somers Murder.Maybe it's good to stick and look at most of the facts known on Somers case.Maybe we will hear more soon.

I look every day and as far as I know there is no new evidence.

As far as facts...I am looking at what was reported as "facts" in a "new" way. What people tell the police is not always the truth. So if there is no new evidence, I'm all for going back to the beginning. Motive. Opportunity. Behavior afterward. RSO's in area ruled out. Nobody else ruled out.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 07:46 PM
I asked for concrete proof that the DCF was previously called to investigate DT last year (which was said by a poster)... that's all. Is this a fact or just hearsay...because if it is a fact, then apparently they did not find sufficient evidence to remove the kids from her care - kwim?

Ive reviewed past posts and I cant find anywhere that a poster said DCF was previously called to investigate DT last year.. can I see a post, please?? TIA

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 07:55 PM
No opportunity isn't always there. You can't leave a child unsupervised and then say it's the murderers fault alone. Kids need to be supervised.

Opportunity decreases with supervision if it didn't the list would be through the roof. Polly Klass, Jessica Lunsford Danielle Van Damm and Elizabeth Smart were taken from their own homes in the middle of the night. A simple alarm system could have helped. Samantha Runyion was left unsupervised outside by her grandmother.

http://www.happinessonline.org/LoveAndHelpChildren/index.html
I don't think I'm going to be able to get a good night sleep from this point forward. I don't have an alarm system in my home, and heaven forbid someone breaks in and murders someone in my family. I will be raked over the coals and it will be partially my fault because I didn't have an alarm system. And living with the guilt for the rest of my life knowing, if I'd only had an alarm system, my family member might still be alive. Mercy me.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 07:57 PM
Ive reviewed past posts and I cant find anywhere that a poster said DCF was previously called to investigate DT last year.. can I see a post, please?? TIA

I really don't have the time nor the desire to go dig it up right now - sorry sad..but I'll sure put that on my list of things to do when I have some time.

trigger
12-15-2009, 07:58 PM
Are there any new facts or any new information released on Somers Murder.Maybe it's good to stick and look at most of the facts known on Somers case.Maybe we will hear more soon.

I keep in mine what LE said....

“I don’t want people to think that just because we don’t have a suspect in custody after a week that means this case is not going to be solved,” he said. “We have got a tremendous amount of evidence. We have a tremendous amount of leads.”

http://jacksonville.com/community/my_clay_sun/2009-10-26/story/large_crowd_expected_for_somer_thompsons_funeral

Noway
12-15-2009, 08:01 PM
I don't think I'm going to be able to get a good night sleep from this point forward. I don't have an alarm system in my home, and heaven forbid someone breaks in and murders someone in my family. I will be raked over the coals and it will be partially my fault because I didn't have an alarm system. And living with the guilt for the rest of my life knowing, if I'd only had an alarm system, my family member might still be alive. Mercy me.

Chee, I was just going to ask how many here had alarm systems (but instruct everyone not to answer) ... and wonder whether anyone here would blame someone for their child being abducted from their home because they did not have an alarm system.

I think not. I hope not.

Noway
12-15-2009, 08:03 PM
I vaguely remember something about that topic (Child Services) after a post where I said I didn't think Diena was negligent for letting her kids walk home. I think it was just a theory but hope that helps whoever goes into the pit.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 08:07 PM
Is it just me??

I have wondered more about this case than I can possibly put into words.
But some main points.

I wondered if DT did drugs, I have not seen any evidence, although I have speculated, about her and her friends. To understand somers environment. I never heard any reference to her drug use until her so called very good friend said it on a comment on my profile.

I have wondered if DT's negligence would be criminal and another DT supporter posts that she has been accused of negligent homicide by a poster, yet I never saw that posted before that poster posted it, either.

I wondered about dfcs being called on her. Or Sam. Or PC. Again I have not seen any evidence until a poster who consistently defends DT claims to know a friend of a friend or something like that asks for concrete evidence and then tells us that another poster said dfcs was called on DT last year. A post I cannot find anywhere. The date stamp of this dfcs visit makes me go hmmmmm.

All of these references have made me believe things I only speculated about prior to these friends or supporters dropping in their two cents. my edit: I need to clarify that I still do not believe that dt is guilty of negligent homicide.

I will gladly eat crow if anyone can show me posts where these ideas were given as facts prior to these posters referencing (without linking) these posts. Anyone?

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 08:14 PM
I agree with you that the opportunity was there, and was there often, as the perp may have known. However, sadly, if someone Somer knew personally wanted her gone (in retaliation for something or for any other reason), they would have found a way even if she had been better supervised.

I agree with you. However, she was unsupervised, which made the likelihood of opportunity of a crime even greater.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 08:17 PM
I don't think I'm going to be able to get a good night sleep from this point forward. I don't have an alarm system in my home, and heaven forbid someone breaks in and murders someone in my family. I will be raked over the coals and it will be partially my fault because I didn't have an alarm system. And living with the guilt for the rest of my life knowing, if I'd only had an alarm system, my family member might still be alive. Mercy me.

Probaby nobody will break in and kill you in your home. But if you go around everyday with a few hundred dollars hanging out of your wallet and travel the same road alone the likelihood is greater of your getting hit over the head and robbed.

trigger
12-15-2009, 08:18 PM
I don't think I'm going to be able to get a good night sleep from this point forward. I don't have an alarm system in my home, and heaven forbid someone breaks in and murders someone in my family. I will be raked over the coals and it will be partially my fault because I didn't have an alarm system. And living with the guilt for the rest of my life knowing, if I'd only had an alarm system, my family member might still be alive. Mercy me.

Thats why my family got a puppy last year. LOL..But you can do things to be safe like put beware of dog signs around outside. They also have fake surveilnace cameras that look real we had one outside of our previous home , I think it was $10. Also you can get a alarm sticker ex: monitored by ADT that you can put in your window or door. Keep hedges low and always have your outside lights on.....Hope that helps Chee...

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 08:19 PM
Chee, I was just going to ask how many here had alarm systems (but instruct everyone not to answer) ... and wonder whether anyone here would blame someone for their child being abducted from their home because they did not have an alarm system.

I think not. I hope not.

I would hope not as well.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 08:22 PM
Chee, I was just going to ask how many here had alarm systems (but instruct everyone not to answer) ... and wonder whether anyone here would blame someone for their child being abducted from their home because they did not have an alarm system.

I think not. I hope not.

I have an alarm system and need one. I have a son that use to wander because of autism. There are many people who have an alarm system or a dog for protection. Some even have guns. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. You can not blame or blame but what is wrong with having some protection? After the fact is too late.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 08:26 PM
Is it just me??

I have wondered more about this case than I can possibly put into words.
But some main points.

I wondered if DT did drugs, I have not seen any evidence, although I have speculated, about her and her friends. To understand somers environment. I never heard any reference to her drug use until her so called very good friend said it on a comment on my profile.

I have wondered if DT's negligence would be criminal and another DT supporter posts that she has been accused of negligent homicide by a poster, yet I never saw that posted before that poster posted it, either.

I wondered about dfcs being called on her. Or Sam. Or PC. Again I have not seen any evidence until a poster who consistently defends DT claims to know a friend of a friend or something like that asks for concrete evidence and then tells us that another poster said dfcs was called on DT last year. A post I cannot find anywhere. The date stamp of this dfcs visit makes me go hmmmmm.

All of these references have made me believe things I only speculated about prior to these friends or supporters dropping in their two cents.

I will gladly eat crow if anyone can show me posts where these ideas were given as facts prior to these posters referencing (without linking) these posts. Anyone?


It must be just you.... and the poster you are referring to has a name... and that name is wawa...cheewawa. The date stamp of this dfcs visit makes you go hmmmm? Several things posted by posters make me go hmmmm. So I guess we'll sit back and let the chips fall where they may. Keep searching..... I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. ;)

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 08:27 PM
I vaguely remember something about that topic (Child Services) after a post where I said I didn't think Diena was negligent for letting her kids walk home. I think it was just a theory but hope that helps whoever goes into the pit.


I will go out on a shaky limb here. I do not think DT was negligent for allowing her kids to walk home alone, especially in a large group where a lot of kids and some adults would have been present. I question whether there was consistently an adult at home to receive them. If not, I consider that neglect.

The fact is that Somer did not stay with the group. She routinely ran off, usually in a huff, to a variety of places, and it is strange that nobody ever followed her or asked her what she was doing, or is there evidence that anyone looked into the cause, etc. I am saying this happened over a period of time and was noted by several people.

The older sister was placed in the position of monitoring this child. If that is hard for a 10 year old to do, it is harder for a sibling. Younger children do not like to be told what to do by older siblings. We've established that the appropriate age for a babysitter is legally 16. We do not know if AT had to babysit these twins or for how long after school or if there were ever adults present with the exception of the day SP was there. Neglect.

Plenty of posters and other sources have revealed that DT was a proponent of a certain drug and its documented that CPC's first favorite activity is porn. There is no hard evidence that drugs were used or porn watched in the near vicinity of these kids, but common sense says that the likelihood is yes. IF DCF found these factors, they would be remiss in not following up.

We are not bashing DT because she has had 5 children by different fathers; however, DT lost custody of an older daughter and it has been posted on this forum that Somer phoned her father before her murder and indicated she wanted to go stay with him. This may be the normal behavior of a 7 year old who wants a change of scenery. Or not.

So if there is no tangible documented evidence that DCF investigated and made a finding against DT, add all of the factors above. The situation indicates that she has been less than responsible as a parent to Somer. Use common sense.

what about this?
12-15-2009, 08:33 PM
Probaby nobody will break in and kill you in your home. But if you go around everyday with a few hundred dollars hanging out of your wallet and travel the same road alone the likelihood is greater of your getting hit over the head and robbed.

I agree on all counts - but in this specific case, in Somer's life . . . that may not have been the only factor. There are plenty, PLENTY of children out there unsupervised, and they don't die.

human
12-15-2009, 08:33 PM
We all do things that are not safe, I imagine. Like tonight I worked late and walked to a dark parking lot. Didn't like it, but was too lazy to repark my car after I had to drive around for work today.

I don't know anyone who hasn't been the victim of a crime, and I live in a pretty crime free area. Some bigger crimes, some smaller crimes. I have been a small crime victim several times myself.

A couple could have been prevented by me. I had money in my coat pocket and no place to put my coat at work. Someone must have been checking my pockets a lot. Sometimes they probably got a dollar that I put in from change. Then one day they hit payola.

So now I have changed my behavior. I always lock my car. Never did before.

Years ago my friend's child got kidnapped, 175 miles from me, but that changed my behavior towards my own children.

I can't look at this objectively because I have been forever changed years ago. My own children are very protective of their children. I don't know what other parents think. Are they not aware? I don't know.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 08:37 PM
It must be just you.... and the poster you are referring to has a name... and that name is wawa...cheewawa. The date stamp of this dfcs visit makes you go hmmmm? Several things posted by posters make me go hmmmm. So I guess we'll sit back and let the chips fall where they may. Keep searching..... I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. ;)

I give up cause I dont think they exist and unless I reference it as fact in my own post I have no desire or need to keep looking. If I refer to a past post it is usually at least in this thread or its linked. Especially if it was posted threads ago.

Since your post referenced even a date, I would think you would want to show the post. Maybe tonight when you can sleep? Again TIA.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 08:43 PM
I give up cause I dont think they exist and unless I reference it as fact in my own post I have no desire or need to keep looking. If I refer to a past post it is usually at least in this thread or its linked. Especially if it was posted threads ago.

Since your post referenced even a date, I would think you would want to show the post. Maybe tonight when you can sleep? Again TIA.

For the record, I don't believe my post referenced a date. I believe it was a time period - no specific date. I think Noway is correct.... maybe I need sleep and that is the problem.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 08:48 PM
Your right chee, a time period, not a date and I understand the need for sleep.. I do too as I dont have an alarm system either, only my dogs.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 08:50 PM
I agree on all counts - but in this specific case, in Somer's life . . . that may not have been the only factor. There are plenty, PLENTY of children out there unsupervised, and they don't die.


Many people cross the street without looking. Not all get run over so we should all stop looking before we cross. After all, only some get hit.

We should all be very careful and supervise our kids.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 08:54 PM
Please pray for this little boy missing in NY (my area).

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091214/NEWS/912149976

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:01 PM
I think one of the worst things in life is regret. Especially the regret we all feel when someone we loves dies, even by natural causes. The regret involved in this situation I cannot fathom. Every person I have lost, no matter how sure I was that I tried to protect them, care for them, ensured they knew how important they were to me or how loved.. there is regret for what I did not do.
No matter how protected we think our families are.. the real truth is that we can all be victims of violent crime even with more than due dilligence.
This world is ugly at times, bad things happen to good, moral, and kind people. Making yourself and those you love less of a target does help, but not one of us knows this could not happen to us or our loved ones.

ccane
12-15-2009, 09:10 PM
For the record, I don't believe my post referenced a date. I believe it was a time period - no specific date. I think Noway is correct.... maybe I need sleep and that is the problem.

I have been looking and looking for somthing posted about this and can't find it. I have read almost every thread in this case. Can you point me in the correct direction or time frame you seen this posted.

ccane
12-15-2009, 09:27 PM
Also I was thinking again about the police report
1.. the girl who got in the fight and the police interviewed them are not on the report?
2.. TJ who is on the report works at the car wash as some kind of sanitation engineer ?

Why when somer went missing on the earlier video's was DT outside being talked to
why not in the house?
Why so many police if she may have just been at a friends house?
If my kid Did not home from school and it's two hours and I tell the police.. how long do they wait to see if they show up or call before sending out swat and police,choppers everyone to look? what is the norm.. I could see one or two cops and make some calls to friends, ex husband ..

what about this?
12-15-2009, 09:29 PM
Many people cross the street without looking. Not all get run over so we should all stop looking before we cross. After all, only some get hit.

We should all be very careful and supervise our kids.

I agree, I agree! But, some of this is specific to Somer and her life, don't you think?

We all know right or wrong behaviors, safe and unsafe - but this little girl, Somer, lost her life, and I prefer not to think of her as a statistic because of a flighty mother.

Something happened to Somer, and we want to know what -- We know the circumstances -- WHO did this? There were lots of problems, sure. What happened?

I applaud you guys so much -- no news, and you still keep going. Keep going. Somer's worth it.

houndstooth
12-15-2009, 09:36 PM
Also I was thinking again about the police report
1.. the girl who got in the fight and the police interviewed them are not on the report?
2.. TJ who is on the report works at the car wash as some kind of sanitation engineer ?

Why when somer went missing on the earlier video's was DT outside being talked to
why not in the house?
Why so many police if she may have just been at a friends house?
If my kid Did not home from school and it's two hours and I tell the police.. how long do they wait to see if they show up or call before sending out swat and police,choppers everyone to look? what is the norm.. I could is one or two cops and make some calls to friends, ex husband ..

I have wondered that me own self. All I can ever come up with is that when preliminary investigations started, some things must have set off alarm bells right off the bat. You have to admit, if we found the whole leaving work and going straight to the park (if true), and not going home or calling 911, but leaving it up to the chance meeting with a passing cop, a little odd. They probably thought that odd too. And next thing you know, 1+2 ain't adding up to 3.
We don't know what they know. But, something as simple as a call to her job or CPC job or SP job may have started the ball rolling that something bad had happened. Or checking their phones, or all the little nuances that LE would note. Demeanor, inconsistant statements. Lots of stuff. I don't think LE ever serioulsy were thinking a ped/SO . JMO.

what about this?
12-15-2009, 09:36 PM
And just one more thing -

the little boy missing in Newbourg tonight - the boyfriend actually fractured an infant's skull - out of jail? Huh? Then little Marc's hands were burned . . . and HE is left in charge. The mother is defending this guy! Wonder about DT and CPC still.

ccane
12-15-2009, 09:40 PM
I traded in my stilettos for a pair a tennis shoes.. double knot so they dont go flying too

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 09:43 PM
I traded in my stilettos for a pair a tennis shoes.. double knot so they dont go flying too

I meant to tell you, I like your new shoes....

houndstooth
12-15-2009, 09:47 PM
Alrighty then. Set me straight on why SP was there? He just was there to tell a little "white lie" to LE. When did it become evident that a little white lie was going to be needed? I am unclear on this. TIA

Noway
12-15-2009, 09:47 PM
I have been looking and looking for somthing posted about this and can't find it. I have read almost every thread in this case. Can you point me in the correct direction or time frame you seen this posted.

All I can remember is a post by me saying that Diena did not seem to have met the legal definition of negligence by letting the kids walk home.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4510067&highlight=legal+definition+negligence#post4510067

In Thread 25.

I think the mention of Child Services was either before this or after. I knew it didn't apply to what I thought she wasn't negligent of (letting kids walk home).

ETA: Found post by me by searching all posts by NoWay in threads with Found Deceased for legal AND definition AND negligence in the Missing/Located Forum Discussion and had results returned as posts, not thread.

ccane
12-15-2009, 09:49 PM
All I can remember is a post by me saying that Diena did not seem to have met the legal definition of negligence by letting the kids walk home.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4510067&highlight=legal+definition+negligence#post4510067

In Thread 25.

I think the mention of Child Services was either before this or after. I knew it didn't apply to what I thought she wasn't negligent of (letting kids walk home).

Understood.. but chee said last year? Doesn't she has a daughter that is a friend of a friend? Maybe the date came from them and not the board? I dont know

Noway
12-15-2009, 09:52 PM
And it could have been deleted by the member who posted it or mods ...

Usually someone out there shares my hallucination.

I ignored the post because it didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about (letting kids walk) ... which makes me think it was after.

I don't know if a specific date was mentioned but that Diena was negligent for letting her kids wander the neighborhood (and I didn't have facts that she did let them do this which is why I thought this was a theory.)

ETA: Still don't have facts that she did so it is still a theory to me. (Just clarifying.)

human
12-15-2009, 09:53 PM
ccane , I like your shoes as well. I liked the other ones as well.

I have a HUGE favor to ask of a local. On the Olten case, the media did have a gag order. LE asked them and they agreed not to say anything until after the juvenile perp was charged. This came out AFTER the fact.

Is there any local who could call and ask if there is a gag order on Somer's case as NOTHING has been written for a long time?

Noway
12-15-2009, 09:55 PM
The only place I follow this case is here. Maybe possible that I read it in comments of article but I try to steer away from those in general because they make me dizzy.

ccane
12-15-2009, 09:59 PM
And the landfill is another mystery to me also. If they found the body wed then why where the news crews not all over this? This was big big news.. where were all the traffic news choppers flying to get a video for the 6 or 10 oclock news
It's like a no fly zone.. until thursday then I few clips
How about 9 cop cars following the 9 trucks for 45mins to stateline.. again no news clips
Videos chopped and edited when DT does an interview..OPAA black out and the one in which sshe said "the neighbors watch out for them" the interviewer asked "so you don't have a regular sitter watch the kids" and she said " no "

Noway
12-15-2009, 09:59 PM
Alrighty then. Set me straight on why SP was there? He just was there to tell a little "white lie" to LE. When did it become evident that a little white lie was going to be needed? I am unclear on this. TIA

I disagree that he was there in order to provide a white lie to LE. Her kids being home alone was not a crime according to Florida law as found online. Florida does not have an age at which children are old enough to be left alone. So unless there was an incident (which I am trying to find) there would be no need for any white lie.

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:00 PM
And the landfill is another mystery to me also. If they found the body wed then why where the news crews not all over this? This was big big news.. where were all the traffic news choppers flying to get a video for the 6 or 10 oclock news
It's like a no fly zone.. until thursday then I few clips
How about 9 cop cars following the 9 trucks for 45mins to stateline.. again no news clips
Videos chopped and edited when DT does an interview..OPAA black out and the one in which sshe said "the neighbors watch out for them" the interviewer asked "so you don't have a regular sitter watch the kids" and she said " no "

It's possible that LE was trying to keep the tabloids of selling sensational pictures of Somer and they kept the copters away?

txsvicki
12-15-2009, 10:01 PM
Chee, I was just going to ask how many here had alarm systems (but instruct everyone not to answer) ... and wonder whether anyone here would blame someone for their child being abducted from their home because they did not have an alarm system.

I think not. I hope not.


I wouldn't blame others if they didn't have alarm systems of some kind, but would regret they didn't think of it. I'd blame myself though. I've got some alarms and a very protective dog that sleeps inside and hears everything.

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:03 PM
Maybe LE thought nothing would come of following the garbage trucks and searching them, and didn't want to pull a Geraldo Rivera (lots of cameras and an empty vault)?

OR

They had a tip. And a good one. And they didn't want their suspect (whoever he would turn out to be) to know what they were doing?

I just don't know.

houndstooth
12-15-2009, 10:03 PM
I disagree that he was there in order to provide a white lie to LE. Her kids being home alone was not a crime according to Florida law as found online. Florida does not have an age at which children are old enough to be left alone. So unless there was an incident (which I am trying to find) there would be no need for any white lie.

My bad. I should have quoted the post I was referring to that said this.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:07 PM
Didn't DT go to school also? Wonder who watched the kids while she attended school?? CPC?

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 10:08 PM
I have been looking and looking for somthing posted about this and can't find it. I have read almost every thread in this case. Can you point me in the correct direction or time frame you seen this posted.

Sorry cane, I can't. As I tried to explain earlier, I think Noway was right - it was a "theory" being discussed earlier this morning. I posted something about is there concrete evidence that DCF was called to investigate DT, which apparently there is none. I personally saw on the Clay County Circuit Courts website in DT's divorce case where social services was mentioned. I thought another poster posted that she was investigated by DCF, but obviously I was wrong - I too have tried to find the post but can't. That leaves me to the conclusion that I'm nucking futs. So I guess I invented it, made it up, misunderstood, got my wires crossed, spent too much time on the computer today, ....... take your pick.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:10 PM
I disagree that he was there in order to provide a white lie to LE. Her kids being home alone was not a crime according to Florida law as found online. Florida does not have an age at which children are old enough to be left alone. So unless there was an incident (which I am trying to find) there would be no need for any white lie.I don't think that he was there to provide a white lie to LE either....but ....I do think that sense he was there.....DT used this little white lie to make her look better as a mom, showing that she did provide adult supervision for the kids that day...meaning, that was not the real reason he was there....but only DT and SP know that I guess....kwim??

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:11 PM
My bad. I should have quoted the post I was referring to that said this.

I think you are referring to a post I made with MY theory of why DT said he was babysitting. And I questioned if anyone had anything where SP said he ws babysitting.

Its in this thread somewhere. But I dont know if its worth looking for, it is just a theory, I dont think anyone but the two of them really know why he was there.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 10:12 PM
And just one more thing -

the little boy missing in Newbourg tonight - the boyfriend actually fractured an infant's skull - out of jail? Huh? Then little Marc's hands were burned . . . and HE is left in charge. The mother is defending this guy! Wonder about DT and CPC still.

9 times out of 10 it's the boyfriend. In Marc's case he was the last to see him. Now with the criminal record, it's almost a open and shut case. So sad indeed. Such a cute boy. Heartbreaking. Now even if the bf killed Marc (not really an if), I blame the mom for not protecting him and putting him in harms way. Perhaps Somer met a similar fate. Didn't someone say last year DT had an abusive bf. I sure hope LE has interviewed him. Of course, everyone is a suspect except the Sheriff.

houndstooth
12-15-2009, 10:13 PM
I THINK they had lunch (for whatever reason) and he was waiting for her to come home. But I dont think it had anything to do with the kids. NO, I dont think he was babysitting. I dont know why he was there. I think there are many answers to that question. They had hours to discuss what they wanted before LE interview.

Deliberately misled LE? Hmmmmmm. I dont think it was the first time and I think he was protecting DT. Not to impede the investigation, at least not intentionally. I think it seemed like a white lie at the time KWIM? Does it say anywhere that SP said he was babysitting? IIRC, dt said that. Not SP.

There are several lies IMO, all to protect DT. She didnt know somer wandered? Give me a break. There was a list to call when she didnt come straight home. A list? A list is made for something that happens frequently.

Someone on here once said that somer has more attention from DT in death than she ever received in life. I think this is true.

Anyone who wants can get ur tomatoes ready. I can take em and look good in red. Do I think somer needed her dad? All little girls do. Did he let her down too? You bet. But not like her mother did, not because there was anyone more important than her. His inaction is his fault, but it was based on no resourses. DT had plenty of resources. Poor pitiful me who had no resources, single mom my a**. She has never been single as far as I can see. My friend calls these people monkeys. They cant let go of one hand until they have another. I think monkey describes dt very well. This also btw leaves no hand free for kids.

these are only my opinions

This is the post I was referring to. I don't know how to bold or do selected clips of. Sorry.

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:13 PM
LOL, see ... if we had a forum, we'd have a place for theories and hallucinations. :)

ccane
12-15-2009, 10:16 PM
It's possible that LE was trying to keep the tabloids of selling sensational pictures of Somer and they kept the copters away?

Since that is the way the world is I dont think so
I think one of two things
1.. she was not found on wed
or
2. She was in or on somthing that would have been recognized.. ie a chair,couch, big pipe

If the chopter is taking video and it's garbage then you will not see whos garbage.. it's to small

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:17 PM
For what it's worth, I have a list of my son's friends (parents, address, phone and brief description) but it's not because he tends to wander off. Have a list of neighbors too. (LMAO ... does that surprise anyone?)

I just keep it handy so it's available to whoever is watching them (mostly family). Now, if he did tend to wander off, it would be handy.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 10:18 PM
Understood.. but chee said last year? Doesn't she has a daughter that is a friend of a friend? Maybe the date came from them and not the board? I dont know

NO, NO, NO, NO...... I have a FRIEND who has a DAUGHTER who is FRIENDS with DT. The date did not come from them or apparently from a poster on this board. It came from me (obviously)...I got MY wires crossed. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so very sorry. Will everyone puhleezzee forgive me???? :o:(:o

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:19 PM
O/T

I think too many moms and dads are more concerned that they look like a good parent than they are with actually being one. Is this a mental disorder too?

Im not referring to st and dt at this moment. Just in general.

I still think we need a lol button. Chee is cracking me up. No worries chee... we all get info from news4jax and FB chat sites that are mostly rumor and gossip and we know how mixed up they get our own posts.. sometimes they are bound to stick.. there are times I think I read it here and remember it was a catty comment out of there.

Plus we are all getting a lil frustrated...

Anyone know AB's sons name? I am lazy to look..

what about this?
12-15-2009, 10:23 PM
9 times out of 10 it's the boyfriend. In Marc's case he was the last to see him. Now with the criminal record, it's almost a open and shut case. So sad indeed. Such a cute boy. Heartbreaking. Now even if the bf killed Marc (not really an if), I blame the mom for not protecting him and putting him in harms way. Perhaps Somer met a similar fate. Didn't someone say last year DT had an abusive bf. I sure hope LE has interviewed him. Of course, everyone is a suspect except the Sheriff.

Yes, 4mer neighbor said that DT had told a mutual friend the summer before last (2008?) that she was in an abusive relationship. The question was whether CPC was in the picture then. Sadnpod said that the last time ST saw the kids, CPC was there. That was 2 years ago, and would include the 1-1/2 year window.

4mer neighbor said that her bf had threatened to kill her or her children if she left him.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 10:23 PM
O/T

I think too many moms and dads are more concerned that they look like a good parent than they are with actually being one. Is this a mental disorder too?

Im not referring to st and dt at this moment. Just in general.

I still think we need a lol button. Chee is cracking me up. No worries chee... we all get info from news4jax and FB chat sites that are mostly rumor and gossip and we know how mixed up they get our own posts.. sometimes they are bound to stick.. there are times I think I read it here and remember it was a catty comment out of there.

Plus we are all getting a lil frustrated...

Anyone know AB's sons name? I am lazy to look..

I think it's Mike.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 10:25 PM
Yes, 4mer neighbor said that DT had told a mutual friend the summer before last (2008?) that she was in an abusive relationship. The question was whether CPC was in the picture then. Sadnpod said that the last time ST saw the kids, CPC was there. That was 2 years ago, and would include the 1-1/2 year window.

4mer neighbor said that her bf had threatened to kill her or her children if she left him.

So whoever that bf was at the time would be a very top suspect.

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:25 PM
I must have been thinking of those National Geographic cameras that pick up ticks on a zebra's butt. :)

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:26 PM
This is the post I was referring to. I don't know how to bold or do selected clips of. Sorry.

My post was in answer to someone elses post too, I hope I answered you in my last post as you were finding this one...

ok.. im confused.:crazy:

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:29 PM
Could someone provide the source for him (Mike) being her (AB's) son? I'll add him to my list.

houndstooth
12-15-2009, 10:29 PM
O/T

I think too many moms and dads are more concerned that they look like a good parent than they are with actually being one. Is this a mental disorder too?

Im not referring to st and dt at this moment. Just in general.

I still think we need a lol button. Chee is cracking me up. No worries chee... we all get info from news4jax and FB chat sites that are mostly rumor and gossip and we know how mixed up they get our own posts.. sometimes they are bound to stick.. there are times I think I read it here and remember it was a catty comment out of there.

Plus we are all getting a lil frustrated...

Anyone know AB's sons name? I am lazy to look..


Well that was out of left field! I was still wondering when you thought that it was necessary to tell a "little white lie" to LE. I doesn't make sense. I wanted you to clarify your line of thinking on this. It really startled me.

what about this?
12-15-2009, 10:30 PM
So whoever that bf was at the time would be a very top suspect.

Yes, I agree.

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 10:31 PM
Is it just me??

I have wondered more about this case than I can possibly put into words.
But some main points.

I wondered if DT did drugs, I have not seen any evidence, although I have speculated, about her and her friends. To understand somers environment. I never heard any reference to her drug use until her so called very good friend said it on a comment on my profile.

I have wondered if DT's negligence would be criminal and another DT supporter posts that she has been accused of negligent homicide by a poster, yet I never saw that posted before that poster posted it, either.

I wondered about dfcs being called on her. Or Sam. Or PC. Again I have not seen any evidence until a poster who consistently defends DT claims to know a friend of a friend or something like that asks for concrete evidence and then tells us that another poster said dfcs was called on DT last year. A post I cannot find anywhere. The date stamp of this dfcs visit makes me go hmmmmm.

All of these references have made me believe things I only speculated about prior to these friends or supporters dropping in their two cents. my edit: I need to clarify that I still do not believe that dt is guilty of negligent homicide.

I will gladly eat crow if anyone can show me posts where these ideas were given as facts prior to these posters referencing (without linking) these posts. Anyone?

I HAVE NEVER SAID NOR INFERRED THAT DT IS GUILTY OF NELIGENT HOMICIDE. I will say for the last time I think she should have and could have done better in getting care for her children while she was at work. I think the kids have had a hard time of it, and she is certainly not the only one to blame. I question the many influences they have had around them. The criteria for DCF to remove a child from the home is incredible. Based on what we have discussed here, there would be some concern, but it is highly doubtful DT would be accused of neglect or abuse. I would appreciate it if anyone who reads my posts understands that I am looking at the whole picture, which necessarily includes Somer's life and the events in it leading up to the day of her death. The murder did not occur out of nowhere and for no reason. A person did it. I am certain from the quiet way she disappeared in broad daylight that it is a person she knows and went willingly with.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:33 PM
I have a question... I have heard (no I dont think from here) that children are killed to repay drug debts. I dont get how anyone would think a dead kid could repay money. Has anyone ever seen a real case like that other than possibly shaniya? I think lots of kids and young adults are kidnapped and entered into the slave market, so I understand that there is monetary value in the people trade. But how would killing a kid in any way repay a drug debt? anyone?

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:35 PM
Could someone provide the source for him (Mike) being her (AB's) son? I'll add him to my list.

Was he an OPAA baseball MVP or am I thinking of someone else?

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 10:36 PM
Yes, 4mer neighbor said that DT had told a mutual friend the summer before last (2008?) that she was in an abusive relationship. The question was whether CPC was in the picture then. Sadnpod said that the last time ST saw the kids, CPC was there. That was 2 years ago, and would include the 1-1/2 year window.

4mer neighbor said that her bf had threatened to kill her or her children if she left him.

Maybe this is where my confusion came from - there's the 2 years ago, and I mistook CPC for DCF ............JUST KIDDING!!!! But the more I think about it, maybe this post bled into another post and my mind just merged the two of them together....

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:37 PM
I hope LE checked here for Somer's book bag and lunchbox.

*** "Lost & Found" items are kept in the Orange Building (Board Room).
Please check there if you have lost items.***

http://www.opaa.us/

what about this?
12-15-2009, 10:38 PM
I HAVE NEVER SAID NOR INFERRED THAT DT IS GUILTY OF NELIGENT HOMICIDE. I will say for the last time I think she should have and could have done better in getting care for her children while she was at work. I think the kids have had a hard time of it, and she is certainly not the only one to blame. I question the many influences they have had around them. The criteria for DCF to remove a child from the home is incredible. Based on what we have discussed here, there would be some concern, but it is highly doubtful DT would be accused of neglect or abuse. I would appreciate it if anyone who reads my posts understands that I am looking at the whole picture, which necessarily includes Somer's life and the events in it leading up to the day of her death. The murder did not occur out of nowhere and for no reason. A person did it. I am certain from the quiet way she disappeared in broad daylight that it is a person she knows and went willingly with.

Absolutely. Somer was not just a statistic - she was (and still is) a part of us all. Mistakes were make, but this was deliberate.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 10:39 PM
Could someone provide the source for him (Mike) being her (AB's) son? I'll add him to my list.

The seniors from 2006 include MB (who has the same last name as AB, not a too common name), JC (who has the same last name as the uncle of the girl who walked with Somer that last time), and SM (who Infinity feels fits her image). SM actually lives on Woodbriar. All three played on the Orange Park HS Baseball time and graduated in 2006/2007 making them around 21 now.

http://www.eteamz.com/OPHSRaiders/index.cfm

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Many people cross the street without looking. Not all get run over so we should all stop looking before we cross. After all, only some get hit.

We should all be very careful and supervise our kids.

Again. It is not a matter of a child walking unsupervised. It is a child who had a temper, was known to run off. For long periods of time. Whoever killed her knew this. As far as I know, although people were aware she did this, nobody did anything about it. It was DT's responsibility to take control of the situation. The killer knew she would be alone and vunerable. This has nothing to do with alarms or our opinions of safety. I doubt anyone here thinks that her behavior was safe. Please correct me if I am wrong.

pingpong
12-15-2009, 10:40 PM
[QUOTE=ChickenPants;4567910]I will go out on a shaky limb here. I do not think DT was negligent for allowing her kids to walk home alone, especially in a large group where a lot of kids and some adults would have been present. I question whether there was consistently an adult at home to receive them. If not, I consider that neglect.

The fact is that Somer did not stay with the group. She routinely ran off, usually in a huff, to a variety of places, and it is strange that nobody ever followed her or asked her what she was doing, or is there evidence that anyone looked into the cause, etc. I am saying this happened over a period of time and was noted by several people.

The older sister was placed in the position of monitoring this child. If that is hard for a 10 year old to do, it is harder for a sibling. Younger children do not like to be told what to do by older siblings. We've established that the appropriate age for a babysitter is legally 16. We do not know if AT had to babysit these twins or for how long after school or if there were ever adults present with the exception of the day SP was there. Neglect.


We are not bashing DT because she has had 5 children by different fathers; however, DT lost custody of an older daughter and it has been posted on this forum that Somer phoned her father before her murder and indicated she wanted to go stay with him. This may be the normal behavior of a 7 year old who wants a change of scenery. Or not.


snipped by pingpong



I wonder if Somer hugging people and wanting everyone to be happy is because she was broken hearted inside about her dad?

houndstooth
12-15-2009, 10:41 PM
I have a question... I have heard (no I dont think from here) that children are killed to repay drug debts. I dont get how anyone would think a dead kid could repay money. Has anyone ever seen a real case like that other than possibly shaniya? I think lots of kids and young adults are kidnapped and entered into the slave market, so I understand that there is monetary value in the people trade. But how would killing a kid in any way repay a drug debt? anyone?

Is this in relation to wondering what AB's son's name is?

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:42 PM
So whoever that bf was at the time would be a very top suspect.I sure would hope so....then again, that would depend on if it was ever reported......

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:43 PM
The seniors from 2006 include MB (who has the same last name as AB, not a too common name), JC (who has the same last name as the uncle of the girl who walked with Somer that last time), and SM (who Infinity feels fits her image). SM actually lives on Woodbriar. All three played on the Orange Park HS Baseball time and graduated in 2006/2007 making them 20 now.

http://www.eteamz.com/OPHSRaiders/index.cfm

So could be relative but no proof he is her son?

There are 35 people with that last name of the woman who drove Somer and siblings to school in Orange Park area (http://dexknows.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=opt_a&post_back=0&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=braddy&city_zip=orange+park%2C+fl&metro_area=1&localtime=survey) according to www.qwestdex.com (http://www.qwestdex.com). There are 77 in the Orange Park area for those with the same last name as the uncle (http://dexknows.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=&post_back=1&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=cagle&city_zip=orange+park&metro_area=1&localtime=survey) of Somer's friend M. And SM (or SMcI ?) ... while I was able to find address for him under his name, couldn't find any address for MB or JC in Orange Park area.

Cheewawa007
12-15-2009, 10:43 PM
I have a question... I have heard (no I dont think from here) that children are killed to repay drug debts. I dont get how anyone would think a dead kid could repay money. Has anyone ever seen a real case like that other than possibly shaniya? I think lots of kids and young adults are kidnapped and entered into the slave market, so I understand that there is monetary value in the people trade. But how would killing a kid in any way repay a drug debt? anyone?

Couldn't even begin to try and figure that one out - guess they are ruthless individuals with no conscious or soul.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:45 PM
Again. It is not a matter of a child walking unsupervised. It is a child who had a temper, was known to run off. For long periods of time. Whoever killed her knew this. As far as I know, although people were aware she did this, nobody did anything about it. It was DT's responsibility to take control of the situation. The killer knew she would be alone and vunerable. This has nothing to do with alarms or our opinions of safety. I doubt anyone here thinks that her behavior was safe. Please correct me if I am wrong.I do think that if she had been supervised while walking home....this would have never happened to her....

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:45 PM
I HAVE NEVER SAID NOR INFERRED THAT DT IS GUILTY OF NELIGENT HOMICIDE. I will say for the last time I think she should have and could have done better in getting care for her children while she was at work. I think the kids have had a hard time of it, and she is certainly not the only one to blame. I question the many influences they have had around them. The criteria for DCF to remove a child from the home is incredible. Based on what we have discussed here, there would be some concern, but it is highly doubtful DT would be accused of neglect or abuse. I would appreciate it if anyone who reads my posts understands that I am looking at the whole picture, which necessarily includes Somer's life and the events in it leading up to the day of her death. The murder did not occur out of nowhere and for no reason. A person did it. I am certain from the quiet way she disappeared in broad daylight that it is a person she knows and went willingly with.

I wasnt referring to you... IIRC I was referring to a post(s) made by eyes as most ws members would know. I appreciate your input from a new perspective and I mean no disrespect.. but I would appreciate it if anyone who reads my posts takes the time to read all the threads and all the posts that the rest of us have. Its not easy keeping up here. We have all put in hours and days and almost 2 months looking at the whole picture, disecting the whole picture, and we all know that we arent certain of much, especially not that it was someone she knew and went willingly with. Are you certain.. like in a fact certain... are do you feel certain? there is a huge difference.

pinamia
12-15-2009, 10:48 PM
I do think that if she had been supervised while walking home....this would have never happened to her....

Amen.

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:48 PM
Couldn't even begin to try and figure that one out - guess they are ruthless individuals with no conscious or soul.

Agreed chee, but even those people would want their money more than a dead kid. Dont ya think? I would think LE tries very hard to find who kills kids... this drug theory made no sense to me... and I was just wondering if someone could enlighten me on it.

human
12-15-2009, 10:50 PM
I have a question... I have heard (no I dont think from here) that children are killed to repay drug debts. I dont get how anyone would think a dead kid could repay money. Has anyone ever seen a real case like that other than possibly shaniya? I think lots of kids and young adults are kidnapped and entered into the slave market, so I understand that there is monetary value in the people trade. But how would killing a kid in any way repay a drug debt? anyone?

1. Probably common in the Mafia

2. Common in countries such as Mexico and Columbia.

3. Reading WS crimes, I am thinking anything is possible nowadays. Anything. But I don't think in this case.

4. Do we KNOW that PC was not at work?

5. I know of many many cases , even some where I live that the mother protects the BF when he has killed the child. It's almost always when he is babysitting. Almost always a live-in. I'm saying almost always because I can't think of any that aren't, but don't want to say 100%.

6. I was thinking of the sides taken of DT and the children. My question is this? Would you as a parent do this today? Would you be OK with it if it was your grand children?

AS I said, my daughter has worked for years with sex offenders, the latest stint with the civilly committed. After Somer, hubby and I were driving to her house on a weekend. They live 1/2 block from a school. My grandson and a friend were sitting a few houses away from home on the grass, away from the street, on the corner selling Pokeman cards to passersby with a little friend. He is 8. We stopped and told him that was not a good idea.

I told my daughter about it and about my dissatisfaction with the scene. She got really huffy and told me that she knew plenty about this kind of thing as she has worked for years with the worst of the worst.

I think she didn't like my criticism and took it personally as saying she was a bad mother. I was freaked, but did say it calmly, but even SHE apparently did not have a clue. She told me she has instructed him on how to fight back, etc. Big whoop! Geez!

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 10:50 PM
I disagree that he was there in order to provide a white lie to LE. Her kids being home alone was not a crime according to Florida law as found online. Florida does not have an age at which children are old enough to be left alone. So unless there was an incident (which I am trying to find) there would be no need for any white lie.


My earlier point exactly. One would think that if LE found an adult waiting at the house, this would look good. It would at least appear that DT was trying to have some supervision there. Why would she go to the trouble of saying he had never done that before.

One more thing, then good night.

I went all the way back to the first thread on this case. Straight away - when she was missing and not found - reporters had identified SP as the boyfriend, then a friend who lived at the home. I went all the way to 18 or 19 and CPC had not even been mentioned yet. People were generally discussing two issues: Was it a RSO or what is up with the SP guy being at the house. In one of the earliest threads they are discussing why did he not go pick up the kids or at least go looking himself. As things move along and Somer is found dead, people grieve terribly for DT. Soon posters come on saying she seemed hinky. Remember, this was when she had JUST been found and the pain was raw. Way before all of the other discussions up to now. So I still say: go back to the basics. What does not seem right?

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:52 PM
So could be relative but no proof he is her son?

There are 35 people with that last name of the woman who drove Somer and siblings to school in Orange Park area (http://dexknows.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=opt_a&post_back=0&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=braddy&city_zip=orange+park%2C+fl&metro_area=1&localtime=survey) according to www.qwestdex.com (http://www.qwestdex.com/). There are 77 in the Orange Park area for those with the same last name as the uncle (http://dexknows.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=&post_back=1&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=cagle&city_zip=orange+park&metro_area=1&localtime=survey) of Somer's friend M. And SM (or SMcI ?) ... while I was able to find address for him under his name, couldn't find any address for MB or JC in Orange Park area.

I don't know what that means except I don't think I can put it as fact that MB is AB's son.

(always happens when I get lazy and don't quote the post I'm talking about ...)

ccane
12-15-2009, 10:54 PM
One more thing I would like to like back at on here.
The clothes closet.. what are the hours of operation? who works there? and can someone help me with a map

Since it was getting close to halloween and I think there was a pumpkin on the steps at DT house already and Somer wanting to be a go go dancer .. could she have went to the clothes place to look for a outfit to wear after school?

ChickenPants
12-15-2009, 10:54 PM
For what it's worth, I have a list of my son's friends (parents, address, phone and brief description) but it's not because he tends to wander off. Have a list of neighbors too. (LMAO ... does that surprise anyone?)

I just keep it handy so it's available to whoever is watching them (mostly family). Now, if he did tend to wander off, it would be handy.

The difference being that you have used preventative measures to ensure if anything happened you'd have resources...

...but you say he did not wander off. So your list is not the same. The list provided by DT was BECAUSE Somer REGULARLY WANDERED OFF.

what about this?
12-15-2009, 10:55 PM
Amen.

Maybe on that day.

New1
12-15-2009, 10:56 PM
O/T

OK, WARNING....I have taken my sleep meds again and logged on - so get ready. Pay no attention to anything I post later, because I am not in my right mind when I get sleepy.

human
12-15-2009, 10:57 PM
One more thing I would like to like back at on here.
The clothes closet.. what are the hours of operation? who works there? and can someone help me with a map

Since it was getting close to halloween and I think there was a pumpkin on the steps at DT house already and Somer wanting to be a go go dancer .. could she have went to the clothes place to look for a outfit to wear after school?

No. The clothes closet is a place where poor people, maybe only children, but I don't know, that go and get clothes.

We have one here in an elementary school. You have to be referred there. At ours, you get an appointment. Children only. There are other places where you can buy clothes such as Good will and Salvation Army. They also have a free clothes place in a different location where poor people can get work clothes.

This was discussed way back, and the hours were listed. Something in the AM only. Staffed by volunteers. Ours is mainly retired teachers, social workers, that type.

Don't know about that one.

Ours mainly gets new clothes donated from stores and some nice used clothes.

Noway
12-15-2009, 10:57 PM
I do think that if she had been supervised while walking home....this would have never happened to her....

I'm not sure I can go that far.

I'll agree that if she had been supervised while walking home, this would not have happened to her while walking home.

But (assuming what neighbors say is true) neighbors say she was out on her scooter ... always looking for someone to play with ... and they don't mention that an adult was with her. If she was out in the neighborhood a lot, I think someone knew her ways and took advantage of that.

what about this?
12-15-2009, 10:57 PM
My earlier point exactly. One would think that if LE found an adult waiting at the house, this would look good. It would at least appear that DT was trying to have some supervision there. Why would she go to the trouble of saying he had never done that before.

One more thing, then good night.

I went all the way back to the first thread on this case. Straight away - when she was missing and not found - reporters had identified SP as the boyfriend, then a friend who lived at the home. I went all the way to 18 or 19 and CPC had not even been mentioned yet. People were generally discussing two issues: Was it a RSO or what is up with the SP guy being at the house. In one of the earliest threads they are discussing why did he not go pick up the kids or at least go looking himself. As things move along and Somer is found dead, people grieve terribly for DT. Soon posters come on saying she seemed hinky. Remember, this was when she had JUST been found and the pain was raw. Way before all of the other discussions up to now. So I still say: go back to the basics. What does not seem right?

Thank you.

camcneishg
12-15-2009, 10:59 PM
One more thing I would like to like back at on here.
The clothes closet.. what are the hours of operation? who works there? and can someone help me with a map

Since it was getting close to halloween and I think there was a pumpkin on the steps at DT house already and Somer wanting to be a go go dancer .. could she have went to the clothes place to look for a outfit to wear after school?Oh the clothes closet.....you have to be referred to get in there....I did stop and donate....they took the clothes from me at the door...it is not open to public, just referral, at least this is my opinion on it.....gypsy blue, I think is who it was, found out that some one associated with the clothes closet also has some kind of connection to the 1080 Gano home....creepy huh?? I have a pic of the hours of operation....will post it for you....

sadnpod
12-15-2009, 10:59 PM
Is this in relation to wondering what AB's son's name is?

No hounds, it came from hearing strangers just chatting about somers death at the bar at olive garden. One man said he was roofing the day before somer was killed and that he knew vinsons brother and how all the speculation has effected his life. (oh waaah) But then he said he heard the family owed a lot of money for drugs, specifically cocaine. and somers death was to repay that debt.

I thought he was full of carp and just running his mouth. But it still made me wonder what logic drove him or anyone to think this. NO TRUTH TO WHAT HE SAID IMO... This is pure nasty rumor from what appeared to be someone who had first hand knowledge of the drug world. I didnt want to repeat it for that reason... so please NO ONE think I am implying anything here. I AM NOT!!!

Noway
12-15-2009, 11:00 PM
The difference being that you have used preventative measures to ensure if anything happened you'd have resources...

...but you say he did not wander off. So your list is not the same. The list provided by DT was BECAUSE Somer REGULARLY WANDERED OFF.

I don't think we know that for sure.

There was a list and it was used WHEN she wandered off (according to sitter) but we don't know why it was created. Because I think Diena never has mentioned the list and it's use, has she?

Maybe that is splitting hairs, but if my son started wandering off and not coming home when he was expected, then my list would become a list of friends to call ...