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Melanie
12-21-2009, 07:27 AM
My heart breaks for Susan and her children. May God bless them all.

As for Josh, something is terribly wrong. When I saw him on TV the word befuddled used to describe him fit perfectly. What would my obvious reaction be if my husband was missing? I would be begging everyone to help find him, and I would be willing to talk to anyone that I thought could help. I would not leave my home in case he came back.
Josh reminds me of Ron Cummings in that his reactions are not what could be rightfully expected. jmo

You know what's interesting about your post...most husbands don't just dissapear :) Sometimes we wish they would, but more often than not it's the wife/girlfriend that vanishes up in smoke :(

You're right - Josh is truly a character in and of himself!

Mel

LogicalMinds
12-21-2009, 09:40 AM
Wow....I am trying to catch up here...

I am just sick that Josh made off with the boys....grrrrrrrr

I don't know why he was not told to stay in Utah by LE.....

I don't know why kids are caught up like this....just like old Drew Peterson had custody of his kids for soooooo long...

so scary....
Josh is such a LOSER

as for him "losing" his job...remember that he was SUPPOSED to start a new job that fateful Monday (that he thought was Sunday!)

we really don't know how long he was unemployed...his earnings the one year were a grand total of $1400 net....I am sure Susan was supporting the whole family

Josh's computer skills don't seem to be that great..his ridiculous websites look like they were designed by a teen in 1997 or something....so basic and so silly looking

was he "fired" from the trucking company IT job some time ago?? Or was he due to start it on Monday and never showed up and then fired??

I don't think Josh has actually worked much at all...I wish we knew more..

the info from the "good neighbor" Tim is really chilling...the control issues....what a total jerk Josh is

I am just sick that the kids are with him

Patty G
12-21-2009, 09:42 AM
December 21, 2009
Today Show

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/34508169#34508169

SailorMoon
12-21-2009, 10:34 AM
Hoping for good news today.....get those kids away from him please.

Steely Dan
12-21-2009, 11:00 AM
Has this been posted?
AP – Josh Powell, the husband of Susan Powell, stands with supporters after a candle light vigil for his wife …

41 mins ago
PUYALLUP, Wash. – A Utah man considered a person of interest in the disappearance of his wife was among more than 60 people who attended a vigil for her Sunday night in her parents' hometown in Washington state.

Sunday's vigil for Susan Powell, the mother of two young boys, was held outside a church in Puyallup, Wash., south of Seattle. Besides Josh Powell, the rainy event was attended by Susan's grandparents, parents and siblings.

Josh Powell, 34, of the Salt Lake City suburb West Valley City, did not speak to a hoard of cameras and media gathered at the event.....................


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091221/ap_on_re_us/us_missing_mom_utah

Well at least we know where he is and I'm guessing the kids are ok. :thumb:

SusanB
12-21-2009, 11:37 AM
Just checking in before I head out for the day. Maybe an arrest will be today! (wishful thinking).
I just saw a different friend on MSNBC who told the reporter Josh was totally controlling, told his wife what to do, and that they fought all the time. Nothing really stupendous that we didn't already know.
Joshy is out in WA, thinking he is out of the heat over in Utah. I personally think LE is all over him, even if he does not realize. The WA LE are cooperating w/ Utah - read that in one of the posted articles.
Keep your fingers crossed - maybe today some forensic evidence results will be back.:angel:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 11:47 AM
Wonder why,who made JP go to vigil???
Lawyer? relatives? How did he act?
Talk to anyone?
What I read just said he was there with son.
I bet son is asking a million questions.

I would like to know if he found Susans extra account
or picked up her LAST paycheck to have money???

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 11:48 AM
<snip>

“Josh was very controlling. He controlled everything in their marriage, from the money that Susan spent to what groceries she could buy to what she could eat. There was a lot of fighting and belittling on his part. It just reduced her to a very unhappy and different person than she was when he first met her,” Marini told Curry.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34508240/ns/today-today_people/

this jerk sounds more & more like my ex every day. :mad:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 11:57 AM
Here's the direct link for Josh's brother's bio as an Obama delegate for the 8th Congressional District:

http://www.obamadelegates.org/page/Michael+C+Powell+for+Barack+Obama

Interesting, seems arrogance is rewarded in this family. I would be so embarresed to have this bio...

and his brother Josh designs websites???
was this written by a 10 year old? No wonder he lost.

lemonmoussetart
12-21-2009, 12:00 PM
[QUOTE=Texas Mist;4588424]Josh would have needed to do more tech work than his brother's website (http://michaelcpowell.org/Pages/Bio.aspx) -- it shows it's designed & hosted by Polished Marketing -- Josh's company. QUOTE]

That is hardly an 80K website--more like 2-3 hours.
It seems that Josh will not be good for his brother's political aspirations either.
Then again, with bro Michael's intelligence background, maybe he can solve this mystery. ;)

Finding it difficult to understand why Josh did not even acknowledge Susan's family at the vigil last night. They have been more kind, and respectful than any family I can imagine under these circumstances. Why? Because they are questioning his story: that is the worst they've said. Now Josh made his 'show' at the vigil--he can go back and hide at Daddy's house.

The fact that he was 15' away from the Coxs and didn't even speak does not bode well for grandma and grandpa getting to see their grandchildren for Christmas. What kind of a$$ would that be?

Amster
12-21-2009, 12:03 PM
Here's the direct link for Josh's brother's bio as an Obama delegate for the 8th Congressional District:

http://www.obamadelegates.org/page/Michael+C+Powell+for+Barack+Obama

Interesting, seems arrogance is rewarded in this family. I would be so embarresed to have this bio...

This made me gag....:sick:

nervous_nellie
12-21-2009, 12:06 PM
[QUOTE=Texas Mist;4588424]Josh would have needed to do more tech work than his brother's website (http://michaelcpowell.org/Pages/Bio.aspx) -- it shows it's designed & hosted by Polished Marketing -- Josh's company. QUOTE]

That is hardly an 80K website--more like 2-3 hours.
It seems that Josh will not be good for his brother's political aspirations either.

Finding it difficult to understand why Josh did not even acknowledge Susan's family at the vigil last night. They have been more kind, and respectful than any family I can imagine under these circumstances. Why? Because they are questioning his story: that is the worst they've said. Now Josh made his 'show' at the vigil--he can go back and hide at Daddy's house.

The fact that he was 15' away from the Cox's and didn't even speak does not bode well for grandma and grandpa getting to see their grandchildren for Christmas. What kind of a$$ would that be?


could it be possible that this entire trip to washington is something that the atty cooked up trying to make josh look like he cares about susan and her family?? i bet the atty is none to happy about jp ignoring mr.&ms. cox... he really is a dumb azz...i mean REALLY? that is the best that he could do? i cant wait to see what the future holds for jp

passionflower
12-21-2009, 12:07 PM
BBM -

He thinks he is or he is really, really trying to be a bigshot -- like his brother & his dad who apparently have very successful careers...his brother in politics, and his dad must have some measure of 'success' judging by the gated community he lives in...I checked sale prices for some houses there on one street & they ranged from $250K - $400K+....one $250K home I checked out was 4000+ square feet.

Sooo - what does Josh (with his 2 yrs of community college) do when he starts his real estate business? Something really smart & savvy like spend $80-90K on magnets in a Yellow Book? Ohhhh - that's a real genius of an entrepreneur now isn't it....throwing those big bucks around in front of his other real estate co-workers.

Now - there is a kicker to this if it's true -- and considering Joshy had that HUGE bill to Yellow Book in collections on his bankrupcty -- it could very well be he never intended to pay for it....I saw a post @ either deseretnews or KSL (sorry can't remember) from someone who claimed to have worked w/ him @ homenet who posted that Joshy had said that he wouldn't get the bill for the magnets until "after the campaign" (which I took to mean after all Yellow Books for his market were delivered) -- and if he didn't make enough to pay for it, then he just wouldn't. :eek:

And looks like he didn't.

And no wonder Susan was calling her dad to have him talk to Josh about bad financial decisions.

This guy is definitely a recipe for disaster (if the magnet story is true)...sadly, it appears its far worse than financial disasters. :(

Mark Hacking also came from a family of successful father and brothers and yet he was a loser playing his successful double life and living off his poor wife that he murdered and threw away in the trash...........aka Josh Powell.

nervous_nellie
12-21-2009, 12:12 PM
This made me gag....:sick:

uh..i dont think this guy has got a clue either...i havent seen a normal man in this family yet...no wonder mom & sister live in another state.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 12:13 PM
Just on the VIEW, Elizabeth who has toddlers just said she bundled her children up, one time down the hill they were ready to go.
Sounds about what I remember.
One or 2 thrills at that age in the cold, walking back up a hill, that's enough.........kids have a short attention span and ready to do something else! So I do not buy the 3 hours of sledding story!
Elizabeth just proved it with her comment today.
My own children would go out to play in sbnow and half hour later ready for cookies cocoa etc.
Took more time to bundle them up than they stayed out at that young age.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 12:27 PM
[quote=lemonmoussetart;4589427]


could it be possible that this entire trip to washington is something that the atty cooked up trying to make josh look like he cares about susan and her family?? i bet the atty is none to happy about jp ignoring mr.&ms. cox... he really is a dumb azz...i mean REALLY? that is the best that he could do? i cant wait to see what the future holds for jp

I can't find the link but one of the stories last nite said that Josh hugged Susan's sister (Denise, I think) & said he would speak w/ her later...she said she appreciated that.

Dollars to donuts if he speaks w/ her it'll just be more 'vague' answers or another pity party....honestly I don't think he's gonna talk to Susan's family & tell them anything helpful....I think he was only doing PR at the vigil to cover his butt (in his mind anyway).

ETA: found it "At the Puyallup vigil, Joshua spoke to his wife's sister, Denise, briefly and gave the woman a hug. After the encounter, she told The Salt Lake Tribune that she asked Joshua how he was doing, how Charlie and his brother Braden, 2, are doing and if she could speak to him later about recent events. Joshua agreed to talk to her, a response she appreciates, she said."

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14039869

passionflower
12-21-2009, 12:31 PM
...and was trying to break up the marriage....and Josh is a jerk asking the kids to choose between church and cake :shocked2: Poor Susan - how could she not be miserable living with this buttmunch & putting up w/ her FIL!! ETA - no wonder the Cox's had "issues" w/ daddy Powell !! I think we're going to hear about more sick twisted behavior that Josh exhibited....grrr....I'm so :furious: at him!!


<snip>

"One of the biggest problems Susan had was that (Josh) talked to his dad for hours, more than he talked to her," said Tim Peterson, a friend and member of the Powells' ward who has been vocal in the past about Josh Powell and once called police on him.
.....

Joe Trujillo, who talked to Josh Powell often when he would come visit two doors down the street, said Josh told him only a month ago that some family problems stemmed from how busy and active Susan was with her ward, which Josh Powell started attending again a few months ago because of marriage counseling.

"(Josh) mentioned the church was putting a burden on their marriage," Trujillo said.

Other ward members described a similar scenario.

Peterson said he went with the Elders Quorum presidency last September to offer Susan a blessing when she was feeling sick, and said that Josh Powell talked to them for 45 minutes while his wife sat there sick.

"Not in any part of the time did he show any concern for his wife," Peterson said.

"(Susan) told me that a couple times he would say to the kids, 'You can go to church or have this cake,' " Peterson said. "She had to do everything."

Hellewell said he knew Josh struggled with pressure from his family, especially his dad, Stephen Powell, about church."His dad is very against the church," Hellewell said. "His dad is always sending him anti-Mormon literature and I've heard stories from Josh and Susan that (Josh's) dad was always trying to break up their marriage."


more here in multipage article -- read page 2 for sure!!

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705352897/Husband-of-missing-West-Valley-woman-has-left-Utah.html?pg=1

Now more truth will come out........Josh does not want Cox family to have the boys because they would be raised Mormon!!!!
Josh's mom and sister must be Mormons and he was raised in the religion but does not believe in the religion........
I think we are seeing some of the picture!

The bird must be an expensive exotic bird, JP sure doesn't care about it now, he left it behind...........

and the part about Susan being sick for 45 minutes at counselingbetcha he was poisening her for a LONG time and did the FATAL dose that night!!!!

Taminator
12-21-2009, 12:34 PM
I remember as a kid (when I lived on the east coast) going sledding and playing in the snow for hours. We, of course, were older than Susan's kids, but we would go out in the morning bundled up from head to toe and play in the snow.....ALL DAY! At some point our clothes would get wet and we would go home to change. At some point we would run out of gloves or mittens and use socks to keep our hands warm. The difference is you would be hard pressed to find an adult that would stay out there with you for 5 minutes, let alone 3 1/2 hours.

Let's just say they did go sledding. Even after an hour or so, I would think the boys would have clothing wet enough to warrant going home and changing. Especially the 2 year old. He would likely have to have a diaper change, if he wasn't potty trained. Who takes two little boys anywhere with wet clothes after sledding? Even if he brought a change of clothes with them, wouldn't you be more comfortable going home to change before going back out?

I guess I'm curious as to what they were doing from the time JoVonna left until the neighbor saw them come back home about 8:30 pm.

burbqueen
12-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Ok so JP had the nerve to go to the vigil? I just dont get that.

Also, has his family said anything besides the bil?? i'm just curious. It just seems that his side of the family is very mum about all of this.

o/t: Today I found out that in the dallas/ft worth area that the women shelters are overflowing and they are having to turn a lot of women and their kids away. They said it has to do with the fact that a lot of families are stuggling and the women dont feel the need to stay with the abusive man anymore. I guess they figure that they can be broke and beat up or go it alone and not be beat up. I just thought i'd share that.

emmcee
12-21-2009, 12:35 PM
His traveling to WA speaks volumes to me. If he were pretending that she was missing or abducted (anything other than he killed her) wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay at their home in case she showed up or was trying to contact him? It's so obvious to me that since he left, he's telling everyone that he knows she won't be returning.

burbqueen
12-21-2009, 12:41 PM
I knew religion has something to do with this!!!! told ya'll so.

If JP's family and himself were against Mormons then why in the world would you marry one? Or maybe at first Susan wasnt active when they met, but I heard they met at a church function right? Or maybe JP got disinterested and Susans church going ramped up. Poor thing, she probably felt that the church was her strength in a time of need. Susan IMO was probably emotionally, verbally and worse, psycho games from that monster. Pitting the kids against her and taking them off to play when their mom wanted them to go to church. Or forcing them to choose. Playing the good parent, bad parent game.

Openmyeyes
12-21-2009, 12:44 PM
Texas Mist, thank you so much for your always informative links. You are making me lazy, lol.

In the article it mentioned that Josh was a home teacher for the church along with the guy interviewed and that it ended when Josh left the church.
Thats rather frightening. I wonder how long Josh actually attempted to do this. Obviously, he didn't get what he wanted out of it, so he left.

Perhaps he thought being involved would improve his finances and secure him a networking base for his real estate business.

On another note, after reading this article, it is very clear why Josh's daddy said they both would be villified, and rightfully so considering that a young mother is missing.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 12:57 PM
So the only REAL supporter of Josh all along has been his father!!!
I am wondering if his father was the brains behind what Josh should do
to leave Susan and get his sons. (not murder) legally.
Father apparently left wife and children and remarried.
Josh talked to his father constantly, this makes me think he was influenced
allot by him.
If SP hated Susan and her church, he would help JP hate them also.
Who ever heard asking a 2 & 4 year old 'do you want church or cake'
Talk about a nut!!!

TGIRecovered
12-21-2009, 01:01 PM
About the keys, purse, and cellphone on the bed--If I were afraid of my husband, I'd keep those items close at hand at all times. We don't know if they were in plain sight, on top of a made-up bed, or if the covers were rumpled and maybe Josh didn't realize those items were there when he left to dump the body.
If Josh had been experimenting in the past with various methods or amounts of poison, she may have thought her sick feeling would pass; as it had before. She may have been hoping to leave with the children after Josh fell asleep, but Josh finished her off before she had the chance.


About the margins. Nursebeeme has been trying to find the cause of them being blown, but mine still are, and it is really frustrating to have to scroll way, way, back and forth just to read each post. This has gone on for days on this thread. I don't know if it is Steeley Dan's links or what, but please, if anyone has long links on their siggy, shorten them at tinyurl.com, so the rest of us can read in peace!

Taminator
12-21-2009, 01:01 PM
I still don't know if I can agree that this is about religion, per se. I think it has more to do with another situation for him to control. I can imagine his father sticking his nose in many aspects of their marriage. I would tend to lean toward his father telling him he's the "man of the house" and belittling him for not standing up to the "little woman". JMO, but it sounds to me like his father made him feel like he was "whipped". Josh may have learned from him how to treat his wife.

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 01:02 PM
So the only REAL supporter of Josh all along has been his father!!!
I am wondering if his father was the brains behind what Josh should do
to leave Susan and get his sons. (not murder) legally.
Father apparently left wife and children and remarried.
Josh talked to his father constantly, this makes me think he was influenced
allot by him.
If SP hated Susan and her church, he would help JP hate them also.
Who ever heard asking a 2 & 4 year old 'do you want church or cake'
Talk about a nut!!!

BBM

I would bet 100 dollars this is a typical example of Josh's "odd humor". If he was called on in it he would just say I am joking. This guy is a young Drew Peterson.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 01:03 PM
Texas Mist, thank you so much for your always informative links. You are making me lazy, lol.

In the article it mentioned that Josh was a home teacher for the church along with the guy interviewed and that it ended when Josh left the church.
Thats rather frightening. I wonder how long Josh actually attempted to do this. Obviously, he didn't get what he wanted out of it, so he left.

Perhaps he thought being involved would improve his finances and secure him a networking base for his real estate business.

On another note, after reading this article, it is very clear why Josh's daddy said they both would be villified, and rightfully so considering that a young mother is missing.

I wish I was better at saving links...I have found some posts/comments, which I guess are considered 'rumors' but they aren't like wayyy out there so I think there's some or even a lot of truth in them.

Here's some that I remember:

Josh went to Pierce Community College (I read that at a komo news site)

The poster who said Josh spent all that $$ on the magnets also said that Josh had a temper - and that Susan was at a real estate meeting & had the kids - and they were crying - and Josh "went off on her" right there in front of everybody.

And IIRC, it was "John H." who posted a comment that Josh got a call from LE on that Monday when everybody was looking for him - and he "hung up on the police officer". (and IMO, John H. is Kiirsi's husband.)

just remembering comments to the best of my ability so take it FWIW.

fran
12-21-2009, 01:04 PM
His traveling to WA speaks volumes to me. If he were pretending that she was missing or abducted (anything other than he killed her) wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay at their home in case she showed up or was trying to contact him? It's so obvious to me that since he left, he's telling everyone that he knows she won't be returning.

Yesterday's news of Josh leaving his home in Utah and going to visit family in Washington State, was surprising IMHO. But not necessarily unexpected. I did, however, not expect him to attend the vigil last night in Washington. I have no idea whey he did that, other than to try to take the building tide of suspicion that he's the perp. Sorry, it didn't work.

I will tell you though, Josh leaving the home so soon after Susan disappeared AND the fact friends and relatives have already begun removing furnishings from the home, rates right in there with the part of the Laci Peterson case when after just a few days SP inquired of a real estate agent about selling their home and a few weeks of his wife missing, SP sold Laci's car.

IMHO, the husband's actions are indicitive of HOW this case is going to end. Susan will NEVER walk back through those doors again, alive.

JMHO
:(
fran

passionflower
12-21-2009, 01:04 PM
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9097273&comments=true
from the KSL news comments
So many people are saying how could a loving husband during a grief
period even think of leaving the area.
He should be crazed with looking for her, pleading for her return.
Going and asking people where is she?
Let's go look here, there..........
They agree with us that he KNOWS EXACTLY WHERE SUSAN IS!!!
and he RAN to Daddy!
The father is the ONLY PERSON that UNDERSTANDS HIM!!!!

fran
12-21-2009, 01:07 PM
I wish I was better at saving links...I have found some posts/comments, which I guess are considered 'rumors' but they aren't like wayyy out there so I think there's some or even a lot of truth in them.

Here's some that I remember:

Josh went to Pierce Community College (I read that at a komo news site)

The poster who said Josh spent all that $$ on the magnets also said that Josh had a temper - and that Susan was at a real estate meeting & had the kids - and they were crying - and Josh "went off on her" right there in front of everybody.

And IIRC, it was "John H." who posted a comment that Josh got a call from LE on that Monday when everybody was looking for him - and he "hung up on the police officer". (and IMO, John H. is Kiirsi's husband.)

just remembering comments to the best of my ability so take it FWIW.


Wow! Hanging up on LE seems to be a common denominator with some of these guys. Jason Young hung up on LE too! They never even ONCE got to interview him. By the time he got to the murder scene, he already had a lawyer! :mad:

JMHO
fran

agathawannabe
12-21-2009, 01:13 PM
I think this is the story Texas Mist referred to...

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14039869

I've been slow to catch up on this case - managed to read through all three threads last night.

Something I'm still fascinated with is the "sneer" in the blue-cap interview. If I remember correctly, I've heard body language profilers say that the lip will often curl back when a person is recalling something that disgusted them. JP does have that "mouth-breather" appearance about him -- and maybe I'm imagining things, but when watching the uncut interview it seems to me he really prominently pulls back his lip at a couple of different points (and it happens at times when he is *not* speaking - just as reactionary expressions)... see what you think:

http://connect2utah.com/content/video/?cid=67882

Watch how both corners of his lips curl back at [2:05] at the mention of "your wife" by the interviewer, then again at [2:52] at the mention of the the words "foul play". (I can only imagine what could have been running through his head on the topic of "foul play".)

One more observation about this footage... I get heebie-jeebies at [5:10] when JP says: "I'm just trying to figure out what I can do.. and... Both to try to find her and to take care of life in general." (Italics added for emphasis)

The way say he says "BOTH"..."AND"... seems as if he is treating "take care of life in general" as mutually exclusive of "find her". In his mind, he's drawing a contrast between finding her and life, IMO.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 01:18 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92999&page=2
Susan now has her own thread on our Forensic Astrology sight.

Taminator
12-21-2009, 01:21 PM
The only thing that really disturbs me regarding his trip to WA is that he didn't mention it to LE. If this was my husband that was missing and I knew there was an active investigation, I would make sure LE knew that I was going to leave the state and why. It really shows his disinterest in the investigation itself. Some could argue that he is showing he cares because he went to the vigil, but his lack of interest in the actual investigation and search for his wife shows that attending the vigil is merely an attention-getting venue for him...."Look at me, I'm here. I care."

fran
12-21-2009, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by fran
Things are mounting up.............anyone else?

.......REASONS TO SUSPECT HUSBAND OR QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED, BEFORE HUSBAND CAN BE ELIMINATED AS A POI
fran


1. Husband not the one who reported victim missing.

2. Husband had 'odd' alibi, ie going camping in sub-zero temperartures, late at night, leaving sick wife home alone in bed, and taking two toddlers, pre five yo's into the freezing winter night.

3. Change of story details, here and there or becoming evasive.

4. Avoiding media contact. The few times media managed to get a statement. He cut them off when they asked detailed questions about camping location. His excuse was "I have to get my boys." IMHO, he's using the boys as a shield.

5. Avoiding media questions, ie "Is that where you went camping?" to which he replies, "I have to pick up my boys."

6. Avoids wife-victim's family.

7. Stops talking to LE

8. Concerned with 'his house.'

9. Speaks of victim in 'past-tense.'

10. Speaks of 'buying new clothes and comforter.'

11. Unexplained 'wet spot' in carpeting and 'fans being used to dry.'

12. Gradual release of 'friends and family' speaking of marital problems.

13. Alleged from 'friends' of husband having control issues, which included control of wife ie victim.

14. Alleged from 'friends' of 'verbal abuse' by husband of victim.

15. Alleged statement by one of the children (ok, possibly rumor) "Daddy said mommy stayed in the woods for awhile."

16. Spoke to neighbor about 'hope his bird isn't dead' but didn't talk about his missing wife.

17. Testing generator late at night on camping trip

18. Sledding in the dark? (Locals, is there a place in that area to go sledding in the dark? He told friend he was taking boys sledding, that was at 5:00p.m. and he was seen returning home at 8:30p.m.)

19. Near frost bitten hands.

20. Just the sheer distance of the alleged camp site (3 or 4 hours drive)

21. NOT one sign of husband camping where he said he was.

22. Just plain talking about 'himself,' rather than his missing wife!!!!!!!!

23. No sign of forced entry of home.

24. Friends and neighbors said it was unusual for Josh to suddenly go camping late at night with the children in the freezing weather.

25. Periodic money problems including a past bankruptcy.

26. Joshy tells his FIL the last time he saw Susan was at 12:30, but didn't bother to tell him what a great time was had by all at the wee-hours-of-the-nite-camping-in-subzero-temps-and-snowstorm-in-the-desert outing.
(from Texas Mist)

27. Left sick wife alone, never to check on her and she had NO CAR to go to doctor! (from member passionflower)

28. Wife had gone to bed sick with an ear-ache which meant she most likely had a cold. Yet, husband made her walk home from church in freezing weather, (they only had one car)

29. Susan's friend had spoken to her on Sunday and friend said Susan wasn't sick.

30. Husband said wife sick but she went to bed at 12:30 a.m.

31. Husband said he forgot it was Sunday but he also said he saw last saw Susan at 12:30 a.m. when she went to bed and he was leaving for camping with the kids. She would have reminded him it was Monday and not Sat nite/Sunday a.m. "Got his days mixed up, thought it was Sunday" yet he neither attends church nor allows for boys to go.

32. Susan told co-workers she was physically fearful of her husband.

33. Co-workers say Susan took precautions in case 'anything' happened to her.

34. Josh's BIL stated when asked if he believes Josh had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, "I pray Josh isn't responisble."

35. Susan't friends knowledge of Powell marriage............SEVERAL advised Susan to leave her husband.

36. Susan's family paid for her to have a cell phone in case she was in trouble.

37. Josh refused a lie detector test. (I know this can't be used in court, but in the court of public opinion, it points to him hiding something.

38. Disappeared for 24 hours with rental car, AFTER Susan went missing.

39. Local reporter said that at alleged camping location, you need to travel approximately 20 miles on unpaved road. It was storming. {suspicious}

40. When talking about spur of the moment camping trip with boys, Josh said they '.....liked to have smores in the morning.'

41. Wife's cellphone, purse and belongings LEFT BEHIND...

42. Josh skips town on Dec 18/19 (Fri/Sat) attorney says to spend holidays in Washington with father and step mom.

43. Sunday 2 weeks after Susan disappeared, Josh whereabouts unknown.
Has sons with him....note: husband has shown up in Washington State and attended a candle light vigil for Susan,.............NO comment to the media

44. First time LE contacted husband as at first the entire family was thought missing, Josh hung up on LE.

45. Statements by friends that Josh resented Susan's dedication to her church. (Also indications that Josh was being encouraged of his distaste for the church by his own father)

46. While at the candle light vigil in Washington, Josh was only 15 feet from Susan's parents, yet he didn't even acknowledge them.

47. Josh completely controlled Susan's spending. He told her how much she had to spend at the grocery store and what she could and couldn't buy as far as groceries or anything else was concerned.

48. LE said Josh is hindering the investigation.

49. It's not JUST that Josh left town while everyone is trying to look for his missing wife. He did NOT tell LE he was leaving or where he would be, in case his wife returned or she was found!



*Blue are added as the case developes and Websleuthers mention them


REASONS NOT TO LOOK TOWARDS HUSBAND

1. Josh said he didn't harm Susan.

2. Josh's dad said to stop "villifying" JP, he didn't harm his wife.

3. Josh's lawyer said Josh is not hindering investigation.

burbqueen
12-21-2009, 01:41 PM
ok I'm not saying that JP killed her over religion, but I think it played a factor in it. JP was a controlling nutcase IMO. Religion can be used by an oppressed spouse as an outlet or something to lean on. Then there is the kids, if JP felt SP was spending too much time with church and she was teaching the kids the same thing then I think he probably didnt approve.

Then there is daddy telling him that Mormons are wrong and sending him literature. Maybe daddy was telling him to be a man. Take control, stop the kids from being brainwashed in her beliefs. SP is at church too much, talking to counselors too much.

Then there is the money issue. JP IMO felt maybe his manhood and control was taken away since SP was the main breadwinner. It may have hurt his pride. Most control freaks stay in competition with their wives. It's like a game to them.

Next, SP wanted to leave JP and that was the last straw! Maybe he discovered something as proof she was trying to leave or wanted to leave. He snapped and went nuts.

fran
12-21-2009, 01:45 PM
I would hope that everyone knows that when you are in an abusive relationship, even if up to that point it's been verbally abusive, IF and when you decide to leave, that is the moment you are in the most danger!

You are NOT a person to them and the kids are not people either. You are an 'object,' just like the car or furniture. They OWN YOU!

Just about every single case we've watched here on the pages of websleuths, not counting Laci Peterson, there was TALK or possibly even action of divorce.

This just breaks my heart. This didn't have to end this way.

fran

PS.............although this does not necessarily have to do with this particular case, we've seen it in a number of other cases here. According to a study in???? 2001? One in six pregnant women are abused by their SO. Of those, 40%, it is the FIRST time of physical abuse. Just remember,........'physical abuse' is only a 'second away' when there is verbal abuse. Think of it this way, just a slight jerk of the hand, pulling a trigger, grabbing your neck, just a SECOND in time away.............fran

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 01:56 PM
<snip>

Susan Powell's father 'couldn't really understand' why son-in-law was at vigil

The father of a missing West Valley City woman said Monday that he couldn't understand why his son-in-law, Joshua Powell, was at a candlelight vigil Sunday in Washington state for Susan Powell.

"I heard that Joshua (the husband) had arrived," he wrote on the social networking Web site Facebook. "I saw this [sic] brother doing an interview, I couldn't really understand why Josh was there."

Cox wrote that Joshua Powell also brought his 4-year-old son and that he felt it would have been inappropriate for him to barge in on the Powell family. Joshua Powell was under an umbrella in the rain surrounded by family members to keep the media away from him.

"I just hope being here [at the vigil] will encourage Josh to help with the search," Cox said on Facebook.

Cox estimated that 200 people attended the vigil, including at least five news trucks and other media representatives.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094

passionflower
12-21-2009, 02:01 PM
If my child's spouse was 'missing'..........I would be out there doing anything I could!
I would be at every vigil, in the news begging for their return............
were the Washington Powells at the vigil?
Are they helping in ANY way to help SUSAN?
Even if I had in law problems, now would be the time to extend my arms in support.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by fran
Things are mounting up.............anyone else?

.......REASONS TO SUSPECT HUSBAND OR QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED, BEFORE HUSBAND CAN BE ELIMINATED AS A POI
fran


1. Husband not the one who reported victim missing.

2. Husband had 'odd' alibi, ie going camping in sub-zero temperartures, late at night, leaving sick wife home alone in bed, and taking two toddlers, pre five yo's into the freezing winter night.

3. Change of story details, here and there or becoming evasive.

4. Avoiding media contact. The few times media managed to get a statement. He cut them off when they asked detailed questions about camping location. His excuse was "I have to get my boys." IMHO, he's using the boys as a shield.

5. Avoiding media questions, ie "Is that where you went camping?" to which he replies, "I have to pick up my boys."

6. Avoids wife-victim's family.

7. Stops talking to LE

8. Concerned with 'his house.'

9. Speaks of victim in 'past-tense.'

10. Speaks of 'buying new clothes and comforter.'

11. Unexplained 'wet spot' in carpeting and 'fans being used to dry.'

12. Gradual release of 'friends and family' speaking of marital problems.

13. Alleged from 'friends' of husband having control issues, which included control of wife ie victim.

14. Alleged from 'friends' of 'verbal abuse' by husband of victim.

15. Alleged statement by one of the children (ok, possibly rumor) "Daddy said mommy stayed in the woods for awhile."

16. Spoke to neighbor about 'hope his bird isn't dead' but didn't talk about his missing wife.

17. Testing generator late at night on camping trip

18. Sledding in the dark? (Locals, is there a place in that area to go sledding in the dark? He told friend he was taking boys sledding, that was at 5:00p.m. and he was seen returning home at 8:30p.m.)

19. Near frost bitten hands.

20. Just the sheer distance of the alleged camp site (3 or 4 hours drive)

21. NOT one sign of husband camping where he said he was.

22. Just plain talking about 'himself,' rather than his missing wife!!!!!!!!

23. No sign of forced entry of home.

24. Friends and neighbors said it was unusual for Josh to suddenly go camping late at night with the children in the freezing weather.

25. Periodic money problems including a past bankruptcy.

26. Joshy tells his FIL the last time he saw Susan was at 12:30, but didn't bother to tell him what a great time was had by all at the wee-hours-of-the-nite-camping-in-subzero-temps-and-snowstorm-in-the-desert outing.
(from Texas Mist)

27. Left sick wife alone, never to check on her and she had NO CAR to go to doctor! (from member passionflower)

28. Wife had gone to bed sick with an ear-ache which meant she most likely had a cold. Yet, husband made her walk home from church in freezing weather, (they only had one car)

29. Susan's friend had spoken to her on Sunday and friend said Susan wasn't sick.

30. Husband said wife sick but she went to bed at 12:30 a.m.

31. Husband said he forgot it was Sunday but he also said he saw last saw Susan at 12:30 a.m. when she went to bed and he was leaving for camping with the kids. She would have reminded him it was Monday and not Sat nite/Sunday a.m. "Got his days mixed up, thought it was Sunday" yet he neither attends church nor allows for boys to go.

32. Susan told co-workers she was physically fearful of her husband.

33. Co-workers say Susan took precautions in case 'anything' happened to her.

34. Josh's BIL stated when asked if he believes Josh had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, "I pray Josh isn't responisble."

35. Susan't friends knowledge of Powell marriage............SEVERAL advised Susan to leave her husband.

36. Susan's family paid for her to have a cell phone in case she was in trouble.

37. Josh refused a lie detector test. (I know this can't be used in court, but in the court of public opinion, it points to him hiding something.

38. Disappeared for 24 hours with rental car, AFTER Susan went missing.

39. Local reporter said that at alleged camping location, you need to travel approximately 20 miles on unpaved road. It was storming. {suspicious}

40. When talking about spur of the moment camping trip with boys, Josh said they '.....liked to have smores in the morning.'

41. Wife's cellphone, purse and belongings LEFT BEHIND...

42. Josh skips town on Dec 18/19 (Fri/Sat) attorney says to spend holidays in Washington with father and step mom.

43. Sunday 2 weeks after Susan disappeared, Josh whereabouts unknown.
Has sons with him....note: husband has shown up in Washington State and attended a candle light vigil for Susan,.............NO comment to the media

44. First time LE contacted husband as at first the entire family was thought missing, Josh hung up on LE.

45. Statements by friends that Josh resented Susan's dedication to her church. (Also indications that Josh was being encouraged of his distaste for the church by his own father)

46. While at the candle light vigil in Washington, Josh was only 15 feet from Susan's parents, yet he didn't even acknowledge them.

47. Josh completely controlled Susan's spending. He told her how much she had to spend at the grocery store and what she could and couldn't buy as far as groceries or anything else was concerned.



*Blue are added as the case developes and Websleuthers mention them


REASONS NOT TO LOOK TOWARDS HUSBAND

1. Josh said he didn't harm Susan.

2. Josh's dad said to stop "villifying" JP, he didn't harm his wife.

Hey fran, can we add - in blue - that LE has actually stated that Josh is hindering the investigation? and in red, that his attorney says he is *not* hindering investigation?

Taminator
12-21-2009, 02:05 PM
ok I'm not saying that JP killed her over religion, but I think it played a factor in it. JP was a controlling nutcase IMO. Religion can be used by an oppressed spouse as an outlet or something to lean on. Then there is the kids, if JP felt SP was spending too much time with church and she was teaching the kids the same thing then I think he probably didnt approve.

Then there is daddy telling him that Mormons are wrong and sending him literature. Maybe daddy was telling him to be a man. Take control, stop the kids from being brainwashed in her beliefs. SP is at church too much, talking to counselors too much.

Then there is the money issue. JP IMO felt maybe his manhood and control was taken away since SP was the main breadwinner. It may have hurt his pride. Most control freaks stay in competition with their wives. It's like a game to them.

Next, SP wanted to leave JP and that was the last straw! Maybe he discovered something as proof she was trying to leave or wanted to leave. He snapped and went nuts.

burbqueen,
I think we are agreeing more than we actually realize. Lol. I agree with a lot of what you say. I really think he discovered something he wasn't intended to discover.

I think where our opinions differ is that I believe he found out days or weeks before her "disappearance". I believe he mulled over and over the anger, the betrayal, and what he was going to do about it. Maybe he even sought advice from dear old dad. I think he premeditated the whole thing but things didn't exactly go according to plan. I think it was premeditated based on his lack of ability to think on his feet. His alibi, IMO, is proof of his inability to think on his feet.

Also, I keep coming back to how Susan apparently told friends and family that things have been recently improving in their marriage. Could it be that he found something out, kept it to himself, and overdid the "good husband" bit to make her believe he was truly trying to make an effort, all the while planning her demise?

Patty G
12-21-2009, 02:12 PM
<snip>

Susan Powell's father 'couldn't really understand' why son-in-law was at vigil

The father of a missing West Valley City woman said Monday that he couldn't understand why his son-in-law, Joshua Powell, was at a candlelight vigil Sunday in Washington state for Susan Powell.

"I heard that Joshua (the husband) had arrived," he wrote on the social networking Web site Facebook. "I saw this [sic] brother doing an interview, I couldn't really understand why Josh was there."

Cox wrote that Joshua Powell also brought his 4-year-old son and that he felt it would have been inappropriate for him to barge in on the Powell family. Joshua Powell was under an umbrella in the rain surrounded by family members to keep the media away from him.

"I just hope being here [at the vigil] will encourage Josh to help with the search," Cox said on Facebook.

Cox estimated that 200 people attended the vigil, including at least five news trucks and other media representatives.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094

I wonder what the Cox family would have said IF Josh didn't show up at any of the scheduled vigils for Sunday, December 20, 2009. :banghead:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 02:13 PM
Did anyone put a timeline on this last 2 weeks?
Maybe we could put one together. TIA
I'm looking over my notes. But need help........
anyone have the timeline better than I have? PLEASE add

Sunday, December 6, 2009
Susan went to church, walked home with friends.
JP made pancakes and eggs for supper, rarely cooked.
Friend was over to help Susan with crocheting project.
Friend left at 5 pm.
JP took sons sledding in dark at 5:30pm.
Neighbor saw JP come home at 8:30pm
Neighbor heard JP's van's security going off in garage at 11:45pm.

Monday, Dec 7, 2009
JP left for a camping trip at 12:30 am Monday morning with sons.
JP and Susan do not show up for work.
Sons are not at babysitters.
Relatives are called.
Concerned relatives call LE, who break a window for wellness search.
Friend calls JP cell phone at 3pm
Another friend contacts JP by cell phone at 4pm.
JP arrives home at 5pm.

Tuesday, December 8th
JP calls Susan's dad and tells him Susan is missing.
LE takes van.
JP rents a car and leaves for 24 hours.

Wednesday, December 9th
JP comes back home?
Did he take sons for 24 hours?
Where was he?
Police spent two hours removing items from the Powell home.
Police say Josh Powell is not a suspect at this time

Thursday, December 10
Police searched the Simpson Spring Recreation Area and found no sign of Josh Powell's campsite.
Josh Powell speaks briefly with reporters

Friday, December 11
Police stil have no arrests and said Josh Powell is a person of interest

Saturday, December 12:
Susan Powell's father, Charles Cox, traveled to Utah to help search for his daughter.
Josh Powell's family held a press conference and Josh Powell stands silenty with them.
Community members pass out fliers with pictures of Susan Powell.

Sunday, December 13, 2009
1 week Susan is gone.

Monday, December 14:
Josh Powell retains attorney.
JP does not show up to talk with LE.
Skips 3rd interview with LE

Wednesday, December 16,2009
LE takes DNA of Josh Powell.
Search home during a prayer vigil.
LE finds JOURNAL of Susan's at work


Friday/Sat, December 18/19
Josh on the run to Washington?

Saturday, December 19, 2009
ABC subpeoned for video tapes.
All news agencies asked not to destroy video tapes.

Sunday, December 20,2009
2 weeks Susan is gone.
World wide prayer vigil at 8:30pm.
JP and son show up unexpectedly to Susan's vigil.
they stand 15 feet away from Cox family and are silent.
JP talked to 1 sister for a moment Diane?
Suppose to of said he would talk to her later.
JP and sons staying in Steve Powell's house in a GATED
community.
Steve Powell father of Josh defends son in interview.
John Hellewell who is a neighbor of the Powell's found out about the trip Sunday when Josh called him. His first concern was to find someone to "pet sit" his birds.

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 02:19 PM
I wonder what the Cox family would have said IF Josh didn't show up at any of the scheduled vigils for Sunday, December 20, 2009. :banghead:

I don't think they would have said anything. They have shown real class through this whole thing.

fran
12-21-2009, 02:24 PM
burbqueen,
I think we are agreeing more than we actually realize. Lol. I agree with a lot of what you say. I really think he discovered something he wasn't intended to discover.

I think where our opinions differ is that I believe he found out days or weeks before her "disappearance". I believe he mulled over and over the anger, the betrayal, and what he was going to do about it. Maybe he even sought advice from dear old dad. I think he premeditated the whole thing but things didn't exactly go according to plan. I think it was premeditated based on his lack of ability to think on his feet. His alibi, IMO, is proof of his inability to think on his feet.

Also, I keep coming back to how Susan apparently told friends and family that things have been recently improving in their marriage. Could it be that he found something out, kept it to himself, and overdid the "good husband" bit to make her believe he was truly trying to make an effort, all the while planning her demise?


That's what I believe, he was just playing the 'good husband.' He had just started going to church but yet he didn't go that Sunday.

Josh NEVER cooked yet made the meal that night when Susan's friend was there AND Susan suddenly got tired and went to bed while her friend was still there. THEN Josh tells the friend he's going to leave with the kids, so the friend leaves.

It's been stated by friends that Susan had to do everything. I take that means the house, the kids, the shopping, everything. Even after going back to work. According to Josh, imo, it was her j o b in addition to working outside the home. Yet...............he still controlled every dime she spent. Recently when she purchased Xmas gifts for the kids, he was very angry. His friends told the media that.

I believe he was resentful of Susan's job yet he wanted the money yet he wanted control of the money too. Susan told someone she was trying to save money to leave Josh. Maybe he found out she was stashing money. Maybe it was an argument over the Xmas presents.

I don't think there had to be a trigger, other than Susan not doing EXACTLY what Josh WANTED.

JMHO
fran

passionflower
12-21-2009, 02:31 PM
I wonder if Josh FORBID Susan to use the van to go to church that Sunday, so she went anyway and walked to and from.
I bet he was boiled over with her 'disobedience' of a submissive wife!
People say they lived like ROOM MATES, but the friend (JOVANNA) says everything
was calm and nice at dinner that evening?????
I bet they fought all week.
Josh was really trying to break Susan's spirit!

fran
12-21-2009, 02:33 PM
I wonder if Josh FORBID Susan to use the van to go to church that Sunday, so she went anyway and walked to and from.
I bet he was boiled over with her 'disobedience' of a submissive wife!
People say they lived like ROOM MATES, but the friend (JOVANNA) says everything
was calm and nice at dinner that evening?????
I bet they fought all week.
Josh was really trying to break Susan's spirit!

That picture taken at the Xmas party at church that last weekend, of the family, Josh is all smiles etc., but IMHO, Susan does NOT look happy.

Just my observation,
fran

fhc
12-21-2009, 02:34 PM
Rules for a Good Father

Rule #1 - You don't kill your childrens' mother.

Rule #2 - If you fail at Rule #1, You don't hide behind your children for your protection.

Rule #3 - If you fail at Rule #1 and Rule #2, You man up and tell the truth and for once, set a good example for your sons and face your consequences.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 02:35 PM
Did anyone catch Susans friend that doesn't like Josh say he even told Susan what she could an couldn't eat????

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 02:40 PM
Rules for a Good Father

Rule #1 - You don't kill your childrens' mother.

Rule #2 - If you fail at Rule #1, You don't hide behind your children for your protection.

Rule #3 - If you fail at Rule #1 and Rule #2, You man up and tell the truth and for once, set a good example for your sons and face your consequences.

I don't think he will ever man up because it was all Susans fault and the Churches fault.

fran
12-21-2009, 02:41 PM
I wonder what the Cox family would have said IF Josh didn't show up at any of the scheduled vigils for Sunday, December 20, 2009. :banghead:

I don't believe Susan's father said something about Josh at the vigil so much as just a vigil, but WHICH vigil it was.

Your wife doesn't go missing in one state and you flee to another state within two weeks. IF he thought she might return home, shouldn't he be there just in case?

Nah, he knows Susan isn't coming back. He KNOWS the people in Utah suspect him. He THOUGHT he'd get sympathy in Washington. He did, his enabling dad.

Bet his dad isn't upset over Susan's disappearance. After all, he'd been trying to break up the marriage anyway. :mad:

Yeah,...........I guess people will say things anyway.

JMHO
fran

badhorsie
12-21-2009, 02:49 PM
<snip>

“Josh was very controlling. He controlled everything in their marriage, from the money that Susan spent to what groceries she could buy to what she could eat. There was a lot of fighting and belittling on his part. It just reduced her to a very unhappy and different person than she was when he first met her,” Marini told Curry.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34508240/ns/today-today_people/

this jerk sounds more & more like my ex every day. :mad:


BBM Hey, are you me? Sounds like my soon to be ex too

passionflower
12-21-2009, 02:50 PM
If SP is 'anti mormon' wonder what religion he is???
maybe even NO RELIGION???
what kind of literature would he send his son???
Josh's own sister called Josh "odd"
The dysfunctional Powell family dynamics are really a big part in this.

fran
12-21-2009, 02:53 PM
I sure wish Susan's family would quickly file an ex parte motion to get temporary custody of those two little boys. IMHO, Josh is very unstable emotionally.

It would be a shame if something happened to these boys because everyone thought there was no way Josh would hurt them. They thought the same thing about Susan as well.

Besides, Josh has already shown he's not fit to take care of two small children. Taking them out after midnight in a sub-freezing snow-storm to sleep in a van overnight, he can't even remember where, and giving them smores for breakfast?

He's not fit, either way.

JMHO
fran

fran
12-21-2009, 02:56 PM
BBM Hey, are you me? Sounds like my soon to be ex too

You'd be surprised how many of our members were married to the same guy!;)

fran

PS...........hope you realize I'm j/k. Seems Josh has a lot of common traits. I would say they're undesirable traits, going by how many members here say it's their EX who has them! :D

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 02:57 PM
Did anyone catch Susans friend that doesn't like Josh say he even told Susan what she could an couldn't eat????

yep I caught it & posted upthread that he sounds soooo much like my ex.

Made me think of the very first time we brought groceries...I put a 1/2 gallon of milk in the basket & he told me to put it back because he doesn't drink milk...I said well I do & he said he didn't care...then I asked him how was I supposed to make milk gravy for him....*then* it was OK to keep the milk.

I could go on with the food stories, but the epitome of control was this a-hole coming in the bathroom when I was in there & telling me how much toilet paper I could use to wipe myself. I ***** you not.

He also didn't want me going to church, having any $$ or friends, or visiting family. He really went off the wall around Christmas time when I wanted to buy gifts for my family. Even if all I spent was $10 on a cheap clock for my mom & dad.

I can only imagine Susan was living a similar nitemare...I really feel for her. :(

fhc
12-21-2009, 02:58 PM
I sure wish Susan's family would quickly file an ex parte motion to get temporary custody of those two little boys. IMHO, Josh is very unstable emotionally.

It would be a shame if something happened to these boys because everyone thought there was no way Josh would hurt them. They thought the same thing about Susan as well.

Besides, Josh has already shown he's not fit to take care of two small children. Taking them out after midnight in a sub-freezing snow-storm to sleep in a van overnight, he can't even remember where, and giving them smores for breakfast?

He's not fit, either way.

JMHO
fran


ITA, JP has shown he will take those little boys where ever he goes. If he becomes suicidal, if he isn't already, he will not check out on his own. jmo

Patty G
12-21-2009, 03:00 PM
I don't think they would have said anything. They have shown real class through this whole thing.

I agree, the Cox Family has shown class, so that made me wonder "why" Susan's father said anything at all regarding Josh showing up at the vigil?

The father of a missing West Valley City woman said Monday that he couldn't understand why his son-in-law, Joshua Powell, was at a candlelight vigil Sunday in Washington state for Susan Powell.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094

IMO, it would have been better for Susan's father to just say: "it was good to see Josh at the vigil."

I'm sure Mr. Cox was clueless why Josh was in Washington rather then Utah, but he is where he is and went to A vigil.

I am NOT sticking up for Josh by no means at all as I feel he did something to Susan, but I always wonder why family says things in one form and then questions it in another form.

angeleleven
12-21-2009, 03:03 PM
yep I caught it & posted upthread that he sounds soooo much like my ex.

Made me think of the very first time we brought groceries...I put a 1/2 gallon of milk in the basket & he told me to put it back because he doesn't drink milk...I said well I do & he said he didn't care...then I asked him how was I supposed to make milk gravy for him....*then* it was OK to keep the milk.

I could go on with the food stories, but the epitome of control was this a-hole coming in the bathroom when I was in there & telling me how much toilet paper I could use to wipe myself. I ***** you not.

He also didn't want me going to church, having any $$ or friends, or visiting family. He really went off the wall around Christmas time when I wanted to buy gifts for my family. Even if all I spent was $10 on a cheap clock for my mom & dad.

I can only imagine Susan was living a similar nitemare...I really feel for her. :(

Wow.....you did have it bad. I guess a lot of us have bad stories, some similar and some different. The toilet paper thing is a new one for me....!!!

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 03:07 PM
<snip>

WEST VALLEY CITY -- West Valley City police say an anonymous donor is offering up to $10,000 for information leading to the location of Susan Powell.



http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9105519

KDB
12-21-2009, 03:08 PM
I agree, the Cox Family has shown class, so that made me wonder "why" Susan's father said anything at all regarding Josh showing up at the vigil?

The father of a missing West Valley City woman said Monday that he couldn't understand why his son-in-law, Joshua Powell, was at a candlelight vigil Sunday in Washington state for Susan Powell.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094

IMO, it would have been better for Susan's father to just say: "it was good to see Josh at the vigil."

I'm sure Mr. Cox was clueless why Josh was in Washington rather then Utah, but he is where he is and went to A vigil.

I am NOT sticking up for Josh by no means at all as I feel he did something to Susan, but I always wonder why family says things in one form and then questions it in another form.

Why would it have been better for Mr. Cox to say that? IMO, he showed great restraint by not strangling him with his bare hands, as I would have done. I cannot imagine what he is going through and I'm not going to begin to question Mr. Cox's statements or thinking he should respond a certain way. JMO.

Patty G
12-21-2009, 03:12 PM
Why would it have been better for Mr. Cox to say that? IMO, he showed great restraint by not strangling him with his bare hands, as I would have done. I cannot imagine what he is going through and I'm not going to begin to question Mr. Cox's statements or thinking he should respond a certain way. JMO.

My point is, "why say anything at all."

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 03:13 PM
Why would it have been better for Mr. Cox to say that? IMO, he showed great restraint by not strangling him with his bare hands, as I would have done. I cannot imagine what he is going through and I'm not going to begin to question Mr. Cox's statements or thinking he should respond a certain way. JMO.

I can see how Mr. Cox would be angry....Josh showing up must have looked like a taunt to him..."see me, I'm here and there's nothing you can do about it...there's nothing you can do about me leaving Utah & the investigation behind...I'm surrounded by family who are protecting me"....and he hugs another of Mr. Cox's daughters & agrees to talk w/ her later. gag.

I think Josh was getting off on punching the Cox's buttons as much as he was trying to put on a good show for the media that he claimed he was trying to escape.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 03:15 PM
Now more truth will come out........Josh does not want Cox family to have the boys because they would be raised Mormon!!!!
Josh's mom and sister must be Mormons and he was raised in the religion but does not believe in the religion........
I think we are seeing some of the picture!

The bird must be an expensive exotic bird, JP sure doesn't care about it now, he left it behind...........

and the part about Susan being sick for 45 minutes at counseling betcha he was poisening her for a LONG time and did the [B]FATAL dose that night!!!!

(bbm) Hey at least they would be RAISED right. :mad:
:parrot:

fran
12-21-2009, 03:15 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353130/Reward-offered-for-info-on-Powell.html

Reward offered for information on Susan Powell

WEST VALLEY CITY — An anonymous donor is offering a reward of $10,000 for original information that results in Susan Powell being found.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



PS...oops, just noticed that Texas Mist already posted this. my bad :) fran

KDB
12-21-2009, 03:18 PM
I can see how Mr. Cox would be angry....Josh showing up must have looked like a taunt to him..."see me, I'm here and there's nothing you can do about it...there's nothing you can do about me leaving Utah & the investigation behind...I'm surrounded by family who are protecting me"....and he hugs another of Mr. Cox's daughters & agrees to talk w/ her later. gag.

I think Josh was getting off on punching the Cox's buttons as much as he was trying to put on a good show for the media that he claimed he was trying to escape.

Exactly, and IMO Mr. Cox has earned the right to speak whatever he is feeling.

fran
12-21-2009, 03:18 PM
IMHO, it's not JUST that Josh left the state so soon after his wife went missing.

It's the fact that, HE DIDN'T ADVISE LE WHERE HE WAS GOING TO BE!

THAT is the most dam*ing piece of this current situation, IMHO.

What if Susan came back? What if LE found Susan?

How would they get in touch with Josh?

:banghead:

JMHO
fran

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 03:18 PM
I remember as a kid (when I lived on the east coast) going sledding and playing in the snow for hours. We, of course, were older than Susan's kids, but we would go out in the morning bundled up from head to toe and play in the snow.....ALL DAY! At some point our clothes would get wet and we would go home to change. At some point we would run out of gloves or mittens and use socks to keep our hands warm. The difference is you would be hard pressed to find an adult that would stay out there with you for 5 minutes, let alone 3 1/2 hours.

Let's just say they did go sledding. Even after an hour or so, I would think the boys would have clothing wet enough to warrant going home and changing. Especially the 2 year old. He would likely have to have a diaper change, if he wasn't potty trained. Who takes two little boys anywhere with wet clothes after sledding? Even if he brought a change of clothes with them, wouldn't you be more comfortable going home to change before going back out?

I guess I'm curious as to what they were doing from the time JoVonna left until the neighbor saw them come back home about 8:30 pm.


(bbm) I agree w you... tho Utah (from my downhill skiing days) is famous for it's dry "powder" conditions which aren't the soggy wet snow many of us grew up w. But I do think 3-1/2 hours is unrealistic w small children so young! In addition to diapering (which as you point out, the younger child likely required) they need to eat every couple hours All his stories are ridiculous IMO.

:parrot:

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 03:20 PM
Josh showing up is saying see I am here, and your DAUGHTER IS NOT. The little puke is rubbing it in their faces.

fran
12-21-2009, 03:23 PM
(bbm) I agree w you... tho Utah (from my downhill skiing days) is famous for it's dry "powder" conditions which aren't the soggy wet snow many of us grew up w. But I do think 3-1/2 hours is unrealistic w small children so young! In addition to diapering (which as you point out, the younger child likely required) they need to eat every couple hours All his stories are ridiculous IMO.

:parrot:

But...............he allegedly went AFTER dark?!

Is that reasonable?

fran

PS....I really wish someone local could tell us if they have a place to go sledding in that area that has lights?

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 03:27 PM
check out this comment (sworn to secrecy -- we all know you did it)

docscoob: 12/21/2009 11:37:00 AM

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14039869&PageIndex=5

Patty G
12-21-2009, 03:28 PM
IMHO, it's not JUST that Josh left the state so soon after his wife went missing.

It's the fact that, HE DIDN'T ADVISE LE WHERE HE WAS GOING TO BE!

THAT is the most dam*ing piece of this current situation, IMHO.

What if Susan came back? What if LE found Susan?

How would they get in touch with Josh?

:banghead:

JMHO
fran

LE indicated Josh was free to go anywhere. IMO, if LE found Susan and LE couldn't reach Josh by cellphone, they would have contacted his lawyer.

If Susan walked back into the door and Josh wasn't there, she would probably be thankful he was gone.

LE is tracking Josh and knows exactly where he was going and where to find him. They aren't going to let him roam free without a watchful eye on his whereabouts.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 03:30 PM
I knew religion has something to do with this!!!! told ya'll so.

If JP's family and himself were against Mormons then why in the world would you marry one? Or maybe at first Susan wasnt active when they met, but I heard they met at a church function right? Or maybe JP got disinterested and Susans church going ramped up. Poor thing, she probably felt that the church was her strength in a time of need. Susan IMO was probably emotionally, verbally and worse, psycho games from that monster. Pitting the kids against her and taking them off to play when their mom wanted them to go to church. Or forcing them to choose. Playing the good parent, bad parent game.

(bbm) Because JP was only using that--was putting on a show, posing and pretending to be in agreement w SP and her beliefs--to win her over in the beginning but had an increasingly harder time maintaining that front and keeping up appearances as time wore on... an all too familiar story. :( "An inheritance obtained wrongly (alt. "hastily") in the beginning, will never be blessed in the end." ~Prov. 20:21

:parrot:

badhorsie
12-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Wow.....you did have it bad. I guess a lot of us have bad stories, some similar and some different. The toilet paper thing is a new one for me....!!!

Just one thing of many, I had to give STB Ex allmy wages each month, ifI wantd/needed clothes, he would stand outside the store while I "chose" an item of clothing, if he approved, he would go in and pay for it for me- so humiliating.
He controlled what I said, ate. Once,at a party, he literally put his hand over my mouth to stop me talking, it was just chit chat.
Destroyed posessions that he knew I loved, even criticised where I stood at my brother's funeral (I sat with my mum )and held her.
..and gaslighting-don'teven start me on that. I could go on and on, but I guess a lot of us could.
Poor Susan...

Taminator
12-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Josh showing up is saying see I am here, and your DAUGHTER IS NOT. The little puke is rubbing it in their faces.

Yes, his fake concern is all about "face time". Making people believe he cares because he's at the vigil.

If it were me, (and thank God it's not) I don't think I could do enough to help the investigation. I would be on every LEO working on this case to find my loved one. I would be answering every question, whether I had my attorney's approval or not. I would be banging on every door, standing on the streetcorner passing out fliers. What ever it takes, I would be doing it. Even if I had such a ridiculous alibi that couldn't possibly be believed, I would still be doing what ever I could to help.

Just tell them where you went 'camping', Josh! Try the truth for once. Stop this nonsense.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 03:33 PM
But...............he allegedly went AFTER dark?!

Is that reasonable?

fran

PS....I really wish someone local could tell us if they have a place to go sledding in that area that has lights?

I said I agree generally w the poster's comment fran :) That it is unrealistic, given their ages. I'm not the one you need to convince lol was just pointing out the difference in the snow.

:parrot:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 03:35 PM
yep I caught it & posted upthread that he sounds soooo much like my ex.

Made me think of the very first time we brought groceries...I put a 1/2 gallon of milk in the basket & he told me to put it back because he doesn't drink milk...I said well I do & he said he didn't care...then I asked him how was I supposed to make milk gravy for him....*then* it was OK to keep the milk.

I could go on with the food stories, but the epitome of control was this a-hole coming in the bathroom when I was in there & telling me how much toilet paper I could use to wipe myself. I ***** you not.

He also didn't want me going to church, having any $$ or friends, or visiting family. He really went off the wall around Christmas time when I wanted to buy gifts for my family. Even if all I spent was $10 on a cheap clock for my mom & dad.

I can only imagine Susan was living a similar nitemare...I really feel for her. :(

Been there and done that......cheap except for what they want.........mine bought GUNS!!!
Hated church, rules, had no friends, told me I was fat when everyone said I was skin and bones.
Told me how to dress etc........they are CREEPS.........
The marriage didn't last but a few years.
and they usually CHEAT with trash.........
Men in my life had always been quiet, passive and sweet,
I never expected to marry this type of guy.......
he started out like a guy like my family and turned the minute the writing was dry on our marriage certificate.
I wrote this because I truely believe that Susan was in the same TRAP!!!

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 03:39 PM
Yesterday's news of Josh leaving his home in Utah and going to visit family in Washington State, was surprising IMHO. But not necessarily unexpected. I did, however, not expect him to attend the vigil last night in Washington. I have no idea whey he did that, other than to try to take the building tide of suspicion that he's the perp. Sorry, it didn't work.

I will tell you though, Josh leaving the home so soon after Susan disappeared AND the fact friends and relatives have already begun removing furnishings from the home, rates right in there with the part of the Laci Peterson case when after just a few days SP inquired of a real estate agent about selling their home and a few weeks of his wife missing, SP sold Laci's car.

IMHO, the husband's actions are indicitive of HOW this case is going to end. Susan will NEVER walk back through those doors again, alive.

JMHO
:(
fran

Agree... and esp w your point re Mr. Cox's reaction to this pitiful show. It is very Scott P-esque. Stomach turning. What is the point of going thru motions of attending a vigil--where Susan's loved ones are gathered prayerfully, desperate to bring her home, trying to comfort one another, distraught over where their missing daughter/sister/relative/friend/churchmember & these small boys' mother could be--if you KNOW and withholding that info!?! To bring their son while putting on this CHARADE was adding INSULT to the injury. That he would have the nerve to go where HER family was gathered--either to avail himself of this sympathy, or derive some sick, perverse sense of satisfaction--is chilling to me.

:parrot:

Patty G
12-21-2009, 03:40 PM
Exactly, and IMO Mr. Cox has earned the right to speak whatever he is feeling.

Mr. Cox always refrained from being negative toward Josh, this is why I was puzzled by Mr. Cox's negative comment.

Mr. Cox always seemed to try and keep the door open in-spite of what Mr. Cox maybe feeling inside his heart; and for that I so respect Mr. Cox.

It's a no win situation whether Josh showed up or not as someone was going to ask why he did or why he didn't go to A vigil.

winterrose
12-21-2009, 03:42 PM
I've also been thinking she possibly was slowly poisoned.I wonder if anyone at work shared with LE if she was ever sick there and how many times,better yet,if it was more recently.

I think he showed up at the vigil last night for damage control.I'm sure he's been reading online about himself and to leave without letting LE know was maybe because he thought they'd say no.Maybe he feels safer in another state with his Dad in a gated community,won't security call the father to let them know LE is there?So,Josh would have a heads up before they showed up,even though it's a false sense of security.He also has a political relative in that state.KWIM

fran
12-21-2009, 03:43 PM
...and was trying to break up the marriage....and Josh is a jerk asking the kids to choose between church and cake :shocked2: Poor Susan - how could she not be miserable living with this buttmunch & putting up w/ her FIL!! ETA - no wonder the Cox's had "issues" w/ daddy Powell !! I think we're going to hear about more sick twisted behavior that Josh exhibited....grrr....I'm so :furious: at him!!


<snip>

"One of the biggest problems Susan had was that (Josh) talked to his dad for hours, more than he talked to her," said Tim Peterson, a friend and member of the Powells' ward who has been vocal in the past about Josh Powell and once called police on him.
.....

Joe Trujillo, who talked to Josh Powell often when he would come visit two doors down the street, said Josh told him only a month ago that some family problems stemmed from how busy and active Susan was with her ward, which Josh Powell started attending again a few months ago because of marriage counseling.

"(Josh) mentioned the church was putting a burden on their marriage," Trujillo said.

Other ward members described a similar scenario.

Peterson said he went with the Elders Quorum presidency last September to offer Susan a blessing when she was feeling sick, and said that Josh Powell talked to them for 45 minutes while his wife sat there sick.

"Not in any part of the time did he show any concern for his wife," Peterson said.

"(Susan) told me that a couple times he would say to the kids, 'You can go to church or have this cake,' " Peterson said. "She had to do everything."

Hellewell said he knew Josh struggled with pressure from his family, especially his dad, Stephen Powell, about church.

"His dad is very against the church," Hellewell said. "His dad is always sending him anti-Mormon literature and I've heard stories from Josh and Susan that (Josh's) dad was always trying to break up their marriage."


more here in multipage article -- read page 2 for sure!!

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705352897/Husband-of-missing-West-Valley-woman-has-left-Utah.html?pg=1

From this link, I'd like to know why Peterson called LE on Josh in the past?

Good grief! That sounds serious. :(

JMHO
fran

passionflower
12-21-2009, 03:43 PM
IMHO, it's not JUST that Josh left the state so soon after his wife went missing.

It's the fact that, HE DIDN'T ADVISE LE WHERE HE WAS GOING TO BE!

THAT is the most dam*ing piece of this current situation, IMHO.

What if Susan came back? What if LE found Susan?

How would they get in touch with Josh?

:banghead:

JMHO
fran
Josh is playing his own SICK game with LE and the Cox family........
another drew p. taunting, thinks he is GREAT............gag

winterrose
12-21-2009, 03:46 PM
Agree... and esp w your point re Mr. Cox's reaction to this pitiful show. It is very Scott P-esque. Stomach turning. What is the point of going thru motions of attending a vigil--where Susan's loved ones are gathered prayerfully, trying to comfort one another, while distraught over where their missing daughter/sister/relative/friend/churchmember & these small boys' mother could be... if you KNOW and are withholding that info!?! To bring their son while putting on this CHARADE was adding INSULT to the injury. That he would have the nerve to go where HER family was gathered--either to avail himself of this sympathy, or derive some sick, perverse sense of satisfaction--is chilling to me.

:parrot:

For a show,public sympathy or a sense of power.Maybe he was thinking,"It's MY wife I'll do what I want." Pfffttt!

Amster
12-21-2009, 03:47 PM
It must have killed the Cox family...seeing Josh there with Charlie....why bring Charlie?? It was raining. He's a little 4 year old boy. Did he want to see his other grandpa and aunts and uncles?? How confusing and cruel for him! Josh with his posse "protecting" him. Sick, sick display of arrogance!!

winterrose
12-21-2009, 03:50 PM
Oh,I had thought till today,Josh was the one who was Mormon and Susan didn't want to be,I understand now.So,back in September she was very sick,also,hm.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 03:51 PM
Mr. Cox always refrained from being negative toward Josh, this is why I was puzzled by Mr. Cox's negative comment.

Mr. Cox always seemed to try and keep the door open in-spite of what Mr. Cox maybe feeling inside his heart; and for that I so respect Mr. Cox.

It's a no win situation whether Josh showed up or not as someone was going to ask why he did or why he didn't go to A vigil.

You're absolutely right, as always Patty. Attending A vigil--in ANY location is of positively NO CONSEQUENCE when one is UNCOOPERATIVE w LE and hiding behind a LAWYER. No it makes no difference, I guess I just find it unconscienable that under these circumstances, he would deny this poor woman's family even the chance to pray genuinely among themselves, or intrude upon others w a SINCERE desire and hope to bring Susan home to her boys and family. JMHO

:parrot:

winterrose
12-21-2009, 03:53 PM
It must have killed the Cox family...seeing Josh there with Charlie....why bring Charlie?? It was raining. He's a little 4 year old boy. Did he want to see his other grandpa and aunts and uncles?? How confusing and cruel for him! Josh with his posse "protecting" him. Sick, sick display of arrogance!!

Oh my gosh!I thought the same thing,takes the child in the rain for public sympathy and says he took the kids in the middle of the night for camping,child endangerment on the camping thing.I felt sorry for the child,the grandparents couldn't talk to Josh,it would show they believed his ..,but did they get to talk to Charlie?They should put in that filing for custody soon.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 03:53 PM
:mad: I really wish media would stop reporting this:

Salt Lake City resident Wayne Hamberg, one of Josh Powell's friends, has said Josh and Susan Powell had problems like any other couple, but he never saw any signs of domestic violence or other serious issues.

http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story/?cid=68001


because Wayne told People Magazine he's never met Susan!! How could he possibly know about any DV situation!??

Although Hamberg has never met Susan Powell, he says Joshua talked about her occasionally during their twice-monthly club gatherings.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20332053,00.html

passionflower
12-21-2009, 03:56 PM
check out this comment (sworn to secrecy -- we all know you did it)

docscoob: 12/21/2009 11:37:00 AM

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14039869&PageIndex=5

wow, sounds like maybe a close friend at Susan's work???
Someone who really thinks Josh will read the comment?
Hope they do find the smoking gun!

winterrose
12-21-2009, 03:59 PM
If you want to look more innocent,wouldn't it make sense to go to the vigil in the area where your wife is being searched for?Pass out fliers,help feed searchers,be proactive like you cared.Maybe the media was camped out more at the Washington vigil than Utah one.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 04:00 PM
What is JP telling his 4 year old about why he can't be with grandma/grandpa at the vigil........that would kill me.............I would of gone over and hugged my grandson......maybe stole him with media watching!!! I am not patient.

AnnieOakley
12-21-2009, 04:02 PM
:mad: I really wish media would stop reporting this:

Salt Lake City resident Wayne Hamberg, one of Josh Powell's friends, has said Josh and Susan Powell had problems like any other couple, but he never saw any signs of domestic violence or other serious issues.

http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story/?cid=68001


because Wayne told People Magazine he's never met Susan!! How could he possibly know about any DV situation!??

Although Hamberg has never met Susan Powell, he says Joshua talked about her occasionally during their twice-monthly club gatherings.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20332053,00.html

I totally agree with you! It reminds me of my (now) sister in law who used to say mean things about me when my husband and I were dating- and she had never met me! Well, someone confronted her about it, and, oops, come to find out she had me confused with his previous girlfriend. So everything she was saying was about someone else! How reliable is WH's comments about Susan's marriage to J, if he's never even seen them together?!?

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 04:02 PM
:mad: I really wish media would stop reporting this:

Salt Lake City resident Wayne Hamberg, one of Josh Powell's friends, has said Josh and Susan Powell had problems like any other couple, but he never saw any signs of domestic violence or other serious issues.

http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story/?cid=68001


because Wayne told People Magazine he's never met Susan!! How could he possibly know about any DV situation!??

Although Hamberg has never met Susan Powell, he says Joshua talked about her occasionally during their twice-monthly club gatherings.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20332053,00.html

Utah media is horrible with this sort of thing.

fran
12-21-2009, 04:02 PM
check out this comment (sworn to secrecy -- we all know you did it)

docscoob: 12/21/2009 11:37:00 AM

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14039869&PageIndex=5

OhMyGosh!

THAT is scary!

"Smoking gun"

Wowser!

"Sworn to secrecy"


OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here.................Another woman?

Time will tell,
:(
fran

passionflower
12-21-2009, 04:03 PM
If you want to look more innocent,wouldn't it make sense to go to the vigil in the area where your wife is being searched for?Pass out fliers,help feed searchers,be proactive like you cared.Maybe the media was camped out more at the Washington vigil than Utah one.

yep like the charade scott p. did BUT JP needs his daddy, his ONLY supporter!
Josh dad didn't come to him so he had to go there.
I bet SP has a problem with women also..........a cold heart.......even with son.
It's all about Josh..............scott p. had his family come to him, IIRC

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:05 PM
Why would it have been better for Mr. Cox to say that? IMO, he showed great restraint by not strangling him with his bare hands, as I would have done. I cannot imagine what he is going through and I'm not going to begin to question Mr. Cox's statements or thinking he should respond a certain way. JMO.

AGREE. I wouldn't respect or admire a man anymore who put on a public face just to appear "civil," or "restrained" when dealing w an unruly, unrighteous (possibly murderous) person who last saw my daughter alive--and refused to disclose what he knew. It's natural and completely understandable, given the developments which have unfolded over the course of these long two weeks w Susan lying GOD KNOWS WHERE, and ultimately the utter LACK of JP's cooperation--that Mr. Cox should have slightly revised his opinion, and his patience begun to wear a tad thin. JMO

:parrot:

fran
12-21-2009, 04:06 PM
If you want to look more innocent,wouldn't it make sense to go to the vigil in the area where your wife is being searched for?Pass out fliers,help feed searchers,be proactive like you cared.Maybe the media was camped out more at the Washington vigil than Utah one.

That is the point I was trying to make.

IF Josh had showed up at the vigil in Utah, that would be one thing.

But when he goes out of state and then appears at a vigil there, you need to ask yourself, "WHY?"

The purpose of the vigil is to pray for her return and the candles are to light her way home.

So what? Susan is going to show up in Washington?

Then on top of that, he doesn't even extend a hand to her parents.

Sorry Josh, doesn't work for me,

fran

passionflower
12-21-2009, 04:06 PM
OhMyGosh!

THAT is scary!

"Smoking gun"

Wowser!

"Sworn to secrecy"


OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here.................Another woman?

Time will tell,
:(
fran

many of these guys have a replacement on the side..........in my case my X (similiar to JP) had 'phone numbers' of ladies to call, if he needed them........
I got allot of hang ups, messages on my answer machine from women.
He gas lighted me allot saying they were MY friends goofing our marriage up!

I bet he has an internet gal.........many maybe ..........he didn't allow her on computer IIRC.
I bet to another woman he used his big shot role of business and schooling so he could be a KING
to someone.
Susan and he was living like room mates...........very, very dangerous situation!!!!

fhc
12-21-2009, 04:07 PM
OhMyGosh!

THAT is scary!

"Smoking gun"

Wowser!

"Sworn to secrecy"


OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here.................Another woman?

Time will tell,
:(
fran

What woman would want that loser? He wanted those boys to himself. jmo, he was jealous of the boys' affection for their mother and got rid of the competition that he couldn't control.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:08 PM
You'd be surprised how many of our members were married to the same guy!;)

fran

PS...........hope you realize I'm j/k. Seems Josh has a lot of common traits. I would say they're undesirable traits, going by how many members here say it's their EX who has them! :D

LM*O...

:parrot:

gitana1
12-21-2009, 04:08 PM
I sure wish Susan's family would quickly file an ex parte motion to get temporary custody of those two little boys. IMHO, Josh is very unstable emotionally.

It would be a shame if something happened to these boys because everyone thought there was no way Josh would hurt them. They thought the same thing about Susan as well.

Besides, Josh has already shown he's not fit to take care of two small children. Taking them out after midnight in a sub-freezing snow-storm to sleep in a van overnight, he can't even remember where, and giving them smores for breakfast?

He's not fit, either way.

JMHO
fran

In California, the in-laws could apply for a guardianship of the minors. They could ask for temporary orders at the same time they filed the petition. I actually think I could make a good case for them to have guardianship on a temporary basis, based on the facts of the case. The comments that he is like a ghost and can barely function, that his wife is missing but he won't cooperate and got the heck out of town without notification to LE, the midnight camping in subfreezing temps, being confused about the day it was (points to mental instability), getting fired as a result and thus having no means to support the kids, being an uncooeprative person of interest in the investigation of the disappearance of his wife, having had the police called on him before, the statement that his toddler and preschooler are giving HIM the support he needs, instead of vice versa, etc.
Now, he could state, in response, that he has help with the boys from his father and that his father is providing for them. My counter argument would be that the father seems to be enabling his son, does and did not have his DIL's best interest at heart and is helping to hinder the investigation. I would point out that looking out for Susan's best interest is in the children's best interests and that not doing so is bad for the children.
I would also argue that an enabler cannot control a possibly unstable man and is not the best person to provide protection for the children.
Finally, and most important (but related), I would argue that without a guardianship, josh is free to leave his father's residence and go anywhere, with those babies, at any time and given his condition and lack of funds, that could be detrimental to the children.
Would I win for the Cox's? I would predict that in California, no, not right away, with the exception that the court may grant a guardianship to them but allow physical custody to remain with the father as long as he stays with his FIL. However, in Utah, which would be the proper jurisdiction as that is the last residence of the children for the last six months, the Cox's would have a far better chance of getting a "full" guardianship and taking custody because of the feelings in the state about josh and what he may have done to his wife and now, because of the information that has come out about how his FIL tried to break up the marriage, and steer josh away from his faith. With the right judge or custody evaluator, that could prove a boon to a case brought by the Cox's. I'd like to see them try, for the sake of the kids!
On another note, I think it should be policy that children of murdered parents should, all else being equal, go to the family of the victim, rather than of the murderer.

Ransom
12-21-2009, 04:09 PM
OhMyGosh!

THAT is scary!

"Smoking gun"

Wowser!

"Sworn to secrecy"


OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here.................Another woman?

Time will tell,
:(
fran

Maybe the "other woman" is WAYNE? :crazy:

fran
12-21-2009, 04:09 PM
:mad: I really wish media would stop reporting this:

Salt Lake City resident Wayne Hamberg, one of Josh Powell's friends, has said Josh and Susan Powell had problems like any other couple, but he never saw any signs of domestic violence or other serious issues.

http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story/?cid=68001


because Wayne told People Magazine he's never met Susan!! How could he possibly know about any DV situation!??

Although Hamberg has never met Susan Powell, he says Joshua talked about her occasionally during their twice-monthly club gatherings.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20332053,00.html


Thanks for the link!

Oh brother! He didn't even know Susan?

I believe I mentioned the other day he should be quiet or he's going to look like a fool.

LOL, well, I was right!!!

Just sayin'
fran

Curious Me
12-21-2009, 04:10 PM
To all the lovely ladies here that got away from a narcissistic, abusive, husband or bf and you are alive this Holiday season - REJOICE. I know I do. Our job now is to help protect and guide other women in these kind of bad relationships to get away safely.

Susan was such a beautiful person. I wish she had the chance to get away and have a new life with her children. It appears Josh ripped away her chances, and took her life from her. Now, may he pay for that. I'm waiting to see him get his.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:10 PM
That is the point I was trying to make.

IF Josh had showed up at the vigil in Utah, that would be one thing.

But when he goes out of state and then appears at a vigil there, you need to ask yourself, "WHY?"

The purpose of the vigil is to pray for her return and the candles are to light her way home.

So what? Susan is going to show up in Washington?

Then on top of that, he doesn't even extend a hand to her parents.

Sorry Josh, doesn't work for me,

fran

Precisely. The purpose is, afterall, to BRING SUSAN HOME...

...and WHO is the ONE PERSON who CAN--yet REFUSING--TO DO THAT!?

His actions are EMPTY, VOID, HOLLOW, MEANINGLESS, and ABSURD.

He hasn't an OUNCE of shame.

He gets NO POINTS from me. :rolleyes:

:parrot:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 04:11 PM
maybe the "other woman" is wayne? :crazy:

rotflmao!!!

winterrose
12-21-2009, 04:13 PM
Why were the kids taken to a babysitter if he didn't have a job before?Didn't he just get that job or did NG not get that right?I thought maybe not another woman,because he was at home with the kids,but if they weren't with him,hm.There's also online things,he was into computers,I guess they have his computer and cellphone records.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:15 PM
To all the lovely ladies here that got away from a narcissistic, abusive, husband or bf and you are alive this Holiday season - REJOICE. I know I do. Our job now is to help protect and guide other women in these kind of bad relationships to get away safely.

Susan was such a beautiful person. I wish she had the chance to get away and have a new life with her children. It appears Josh ripped away her chances, and took her life from her. Now, may he pay for that. I'm waiting to see him get his.

THANK YOU.

When I hear Wayne talk about "broken" Josh... I want to hurl (bird chunks). Gmab.

"Brokenness..." would confess. A "broken" man would lead LE to his wife so her children and family could grieve and mourn properly. Thus far, all JP is doing is wallowing in self-pity. NOT the same. Believe me when I tell you that w/e tears he's managed to shed are for himself. JMO

:parrot:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 04:15 PM
IIRC, Lisa and Craig Stebic lived like room mates til their divorse went through and
she has been missing for years.......now he is a merry widowerer............never caught.
Kept his children away from her relatives just like drew p.

winterrose
12-21-2009, 04:18 PM
I always hope everytime I hear something like this,more family members step up and help women in these situations.Women have to prove they can take care of the kids themselves in a custody hearing.I just pray more women will tell family,some just don't want to look like a failure and stay quiet,or afraid of losing thier kids,but everyone needs to step up and help.I'll bet everytime this comes up in the news,more and more families do step in and help the women.

SuziQ
12-21-2009, 04:18 PM
I am pages and pages behind. Just wanted to quickly post that Josh is the typical bully. Runs (from Utah) when they have to stand alone, but bold and brave when someone (his bully dad) has their back.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:19 PM
If you want to look more innocent,wouldn't it make sense to go to the vigil in the area where your wife is being searched for?Pass out fliers,help feed searchers,be proactive like you cared.Maybe the media was camped out more at the Washington vigil than Utah one.

There you go... now you're thinking like JP... ;)

:sick:


:parrot:

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:20 PM
IIRC, Lisa and Craig Stebic lived like room mates til their divorse went through and
she has been missing for years.......now he is a merry widowerer............never caught.
Kept his children away from her relatives just like drew p.

:furious:

:parrot:

Patty G
12-21-2009, 04:24 PM
You're absolutely right, as always Patty. Attending A vigil--in ANY location is of positively NO CONSEQUENCE when one is UNCOOPERATIVE w LE and hiding behind a LAWYER. No it makes no difference, I guess I just find it unconscienable that under these circumstances, he would deny this poor woman's family even the chance to pray genuinely among themselves, or intrude upon others w a SINCERE desire and hope to bring Susan home to her boys and family. JMHO

:parrot:

Oh my goodness, I am not always right. :crazy: What I do is remove my emotions and look in from outside the box.

Josh is part of the Cox's family through marriage. The vigil was a world-wide vigil and everyone in the world was invited to attend.

Josh should have attended the vigil because it was better for him to go, then not go at all. It made no difference if he went to the one in Utah or Washington at least he is still in the US.

Josh NEVER should have brought his son, but I understand why he brought his son. It was safer for him to have his son with him then to leave the child with someone only to be asked questions. I feel whoever was watching the other child, if they had the older son, they would have asked questions.

I understand Josh leaving the state of Utah to be in Washington as his children needed to be away from the media. And we know, Josh needed to get out of town for a while too for very obvious reasons.

I am thinking very positive that the evidence collected at the Powell home shows something especially in the rug.

By all reports, Josh is suppose to be quite intelligent although that hasn't come across through the media. But the one thing Josh doesn't have is "street smarts" and this is what is going to bring Josh down.

I'm not sure if Susan will be found soon, but I feel eventually she will be found and brought back to her family.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 04:29 PM
<snip>

Josh brought one of their two boys to the vigil, but he didn't let Chuck Cox speak with the boy. A group tried to shield Josh and the child from view.

"Through the legs there, I got a peek of Charley," Chuck said of his grandson. "He's looking pretty good. Looks like he doesn't have a clue of what's going on."


have I said today that I thought Josh was a jerk?? :furious:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/79818897.html

winterrose
12-21-2009, 04:34 PM
<snip>

Josh brought one of their two boys to the vigil, but he didn't let Chuck Cox speak with the boy. A group tried to shield Josh and the child from view.

"Through the legs there, I got a peek of Charley," Chuck said of his grandson. "He's looking pretty good. Looks like he doesn't have a clue of what's going on."


have I said today that I thought Josh was a jerk?? :furious:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/79818897.html

My God in Heaven,thier child is possibly dead and these people are keeping her children away from thier grandparents!!!

fran
12-21-2009, 04:35 PM
After watching this case the past 24 hours, I've come to a conclusion.

Josh:

I don't know if you're reading here or on other websites, but you're obviously trying to 'hush criticism' by your actions. Every time the discussion flows one way, you attempt to bridle criticism by,...............say appearing at the vigil last night. Everyone thought you'd run to Canada, but you showed them, didn't you!"

Well, guess what, just like everything else you've done thus far, we've seen before. Yep, we've even seen the guy who he and his friends were watching our website and would react according to the conversation. Obviously to quell descent against them.

Didn't work then and it's not going to work this time either. WE have your number and so does LE and every media outlet that is covering this.

Your goose is cooked!

You're already 1/2 baked!

It's just a matter of time.

A matter of time before LE is knocking on your door, no matter where you run to, and they'll have a nice shiny set of bracelets to go on your wrists that are attached to those wind-chapped hands.

No matter what you say or do, it doesn't matter. You were too sloppy, plus it now seems someone you swore to secrecy is about ready to talk, IF they haven't already.

tic-toc, tic-toc, tic-toc

:behindbar

soon, very soon,

fran

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 04:37 PM
Oh my goodness, I am not always right. :crazy: What I do is remove my emotions and look in from outside the box.

Josh is part of the Cox's family through marriage. The vigil was a world-wide vigil and everyone in the world was invited to attend.

Josh should have attended the vigil because it was better for him to go, then not go at all. It made no difference if he went to the one in Utah or Washington at least he is still in the US.

Josh NEVER should have brought his son, but I understand why he brought his son. It was safer for him to have his son with him then to leave the child with someone only to be asked questions. I feel whoever was watching the other child, if they had the older son, they would have asked questions.

I understand Josh leaving the state of Utah to be in Washington as his children needed to be away from the media. And we know, Josh needed to get out of town for a while too for very obvious reasons.
I am thinking very positive that the evidence collected at the Powell home shows something especially in the rug.

By all reports, Josh is suppose to be quite intelligent although that hasn't come across through the media. But the one thing Josh doesn't have is "street smarts" and this is what is going to bring Josh down.

I'm not sure if Susan will be found soon, but I feel eventually she will be found and brought back to her family.

(bbm) I'm not in a box nor are my emotions overruling my logic lol, quite the contrary.

And what's "obvious" is that "Josh" hasn't ONCE considered "his children."

That not ONE decision he's made has had his little boys' best interests at heart or in mind.

Not when he was controlling their mother. Not when, instead of allowing them to stay w her, w the mother and the life they had known, he took them out into sub-freezing temps--nor when he in all likelihood took their mother out. And certainly not now while he perpetuates this charade for his OWN benefit and allows them to go on believing his LIE that their mother may be coming home. :furious:

If he wasn't going to lead LE to Susan, then fgs leave her family in peace to comfort one another.

How exactly is it "better" for Josh to attend a prayer service for someone whose whereabouts he alone knows yet refuses to divulge and in all probabilty MURDERED. :waitasec:

*I* don't "understand" ANYTHING Josh is doing OR saying... it is all a LIE.

LIES, LIES, LIES.

:parrot:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 04:44 PM
To any medical professionals........how long does poisen stay in a frozen corpse???
If Susan is found soon, will it still show in her hair? blood? stomach etc????
Sorry to ask such a morbid question but I am thinking JP is buying time, thinking what he did will no longer prove it by evidence.

fran
12-21-2009, 04:46 PM
<snip>

Josh brought one of their two boys to the vigil, but he didn't let Chuck Cox speak with the boy. A group tried to shield Josh and the child from view.

"Through the legs there, I got a peek of Charley," Chuck said of his grandson. "He's looking pretty good. Looks like he doesn't have a clue of what's going on."


have I said today that I thought Josh was a jerk?? :furious:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/79818897.html



This is heartbreaking. :(

I hope Mr. Cox is seeking legal counsel. He needs to get an emergency ex parte for those boys. ASAP!

fran

SuziQ
12-21-2009, 04:50 PM
To any medical professionals........how long does poisen stay in a frozen corpse???
If Susan is found soon, will it still show in her hair? blood? stomach etc????
Sorry to ask such a morbid question but I am thinking JP is buying time, thinking what he did will no longer prove it by evidence.

I think alot of poisons will stay in the hair and nails a long time.

With the mention of other illnesses, I'm wondering if there was any long term poisoning going on here? I was kinda shocked to see Susan's hair in her most recent pics....it looks to have gotten very thin.

Patty G
12-21-2009, 04:53 PM
(bbm) I'm not in a box nor are my emotions overruling my logic. Quite the opposite.

And what's "obvious" is that "Josh" hasn't ONCE considered "his children."

That not ONE decision he's made has had his little boys' best interests at heart or in mind.

Not when he was controlling their mother. Not when, instead of allowing them to stay w her, w the mother and the life they had known, he took them out into sub-freezing temps; nor when he took their mother out. And certainly not now while he perpetuates this charade for his OWN benefit and allows them to go on believing his LIE that their mother may be coming home. :furious:

How exactly is it "better" for Josh to attend a prayer service for someone whose whereabouts he alone knows yet refuses to divulge and in all probabilty MURDERED. :waitasec:

*I* don't "understand" ANYTHING Josh is doing OR saying... it is all a LIE.

LIES, LIES, LIES.

:parrot:

First of all, I never implied you were posting with emotions OR that you were inside a box. I indicated that is how I post and think.

When I wrote my comment about Josh taking his children away from the media, etc., etc. IS based on the now regarding the children's well-being with the media camped outside their door, not what happened before Susan was missing regarding their marriage and Josh's controlling ways.

It is very possible that Josh told his son that all these people are praying for his mother's safe return. I can almost see Josh saying that, but there isn't much anyone can do to stop him YET!

My main concern is that Josh remains public in some form or another so LE can watch him. I don't foresee Josh coming forward with any additional information regarding Susan.

What Josh did prior to Susan's disappearance regarding the allegations of being controlling etc., can't be changed, BUT keeping any eye on Josh and pressuring him is in the "now and present."

We don't know WHY Josh attended the service, but I bet 2 cents, IF he didn't show up at any of the vigils we would be talking about why he didn't show up at A vigil.

easttexas
12-21-2009, 04:54 PM
check out this comment (sworn to secrecy -- we all know you did it)

docscoob: 12/21/2009 11:37:00 AM

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14039869&PageIndex=5

I have clicked on this link 6 or 7 times and I can't find a comment at 11:37on 12/21/09 or anything by docscoob. I see that many other people can see it but for some reason that post is missing when I click on it. :banghead:

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 04:55 PM
Interesting -- no big frown on Josh's face -- at least what they're showing... does anybody else think his face looks more relaxed in the video here?

http://www.king5.com/news/Husband-of-missing-Utah-woman-attends-vigil-in-Puyallup-79816897.html

fran
12-21-2009, 04:55 PM
IMHO, Josh did not flee to Washington to avoid the press. IF he had, he would NOT have attended the candle light vigil. He didn't even know when or where either of them were until 1/2 hour before. He had to call someone in Utah to find out.

Ask anyone who's been involved in the search for a missing loved one. When they talk to the various organizations on how to keep the momentum up in the search, they're told one of the most successful tools are the candle light vigils. They advise you to hold a vigil and contact all the media you can before hand.

Also, IF Josh was there only for the support and love of his friends and family, he would have approached his fil and he would have DEFINITELY had his son, Mr. Cox's grandson, approach his fil too.

Josh was there only to take the eyes of the world off him as a suspect, but it didn't work.

JMHO
fran

burbqueen
12-21-2009, 04:58 PM
Someone posted about what anti-mormon lit is out there. There is tons. Some generated from ex-mormons who rally against that faith. Some is from other christian denominations that hate Mormons. Then there is the Cult watch groups that classify the LDS as a cult. JP daddy might be in any one of these categories.

Maybe JP does have another woman. Anything is possible.

fhc
12-21-2009, 04:59 PM
I have clicked on this link 6 or 7 times and I can't find a comment at 11:37on 12/21/09 or anything by docscoob. I see that many other people can see it but for some reason that post is missing when I click on it. :banghead:

OMG, YOU ARE RIGHT ! It is gone.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 05:01 PM
I have clicked on this link 6 or 7 times and I can't find a comment at 11:37on 12/21/09 or anything by docscoob. I see that many other people can see it but for some reason that post is missing when I click on it. :banghead:

looks like it got deleted....the sltrib is removing posts that are highly accusatory...I wish I would have copied/pasted it but I don't think we're supposed to grab a whole post from another site.

Next time I'll save it in wordpad.

easttexas
12-21-2009, 05:01 PM
OMG, YOU ARE RIGHT ! It is gone.

Thank you!! That was driving me crazy thinking I am over looking it...wonder who pulled it? and why? did anyone save it?

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 05:02 PM
OhMyGosh!

THAT is scary!

"Smoking gun"

Wowser!

"Sworn to secrecy"


OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here.................Another woman?

Time will tell,
:(
fran

Just now catching up reading, fran, and cannot find the comment. Has it been removed? If so, could you state what it says? That has been done here in the past. TIA

gliving
12-21-2009, 05:05 PM
Just now catching up reading, fran, and cannot find the comment. Has it been removed? If so, could you state what it says? That has been done here in the past. TIA

Yes, I missed it too and would like to know what it said. Can you give us an idea? Thanks so much.

fran
12-21-2009, 05:07 PM
I always hope everytime I hear something like this,more family members step up and help women in these situations.Women have to prove they can take care of the kids themselves in a custody hearing.I just pray more women will tell family,some just don't want to look like a failure and stay quiet,or afraid of losing thier kids,but everyone needs to step up and help.I'll bet everytime this comes up in the news,more and more families do step in and help the women.

The problem is, often times, the woman must WANT help. I've seen many cases where they were offered help, (ie Susan was advised to leave him), but they either want to do it on their own or aren't ready to admit defeat yet.

I know someone it took 7 years before she finally got out and it was only because he literally tried to kill her and she wasn't even then convinced. It was co-workers who saw her bruises and cuts who persuaded her to turn the POS in. She even waited a few days before telling her parents because she was waiting for some of the bruises to go away because she knew they would be horrified.

The majority of these cases there is no evidence of physical violence, just control, manipulation, angry words. Many of these every-day Joes just don't look like they'd actually hurt anyone, other than words.................That is until you see them in full battle mode,...............then they're a different person.

This is just what I've learned from friends and from the pages of WS. Thank goodness I never had to endure anything like this............and bless all who have survived these types of situations.

fran

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 05:07 PM
First of all, I never implied you were posting with emotions OR that you were inside a box. I indicated that is how I post and think.

When I wrote my comment about Josh taking his children away from the media, etc., etc. IS based on the now regarding the children's well-being with the media camped outside their door, not what happened before Susan was missing regarding their marriage and Josh's controlling ways.

It is very possible that Josh told his son that all these people are praying for his mother's safe return. I can almost see Josh saying that, but there isn't much anyone can do to stop him YET!

My main concern is that Josh remains public in some form or another so LE can watch him. I don't foresee Josh coming forward with any additional information regarding Susan.

What Josh did prior to Susan's disappearance regarding the allegations of being controlling etc., can't be changed, BUT keeping any eye on Josh and pressuring him is in the "now and present."

We don't know WHY Josh attended the service, but I bet 2 cents, IF he didn't show up at any of the vigils we would be talking about why he didn't show up at A vigil.

(bbm) My main concern is JP TELLS LE WHAT HE KNOWS. As for his decision to drag his four year-old along on his charade, it was NOT for his son's benefit IMO as there were more media there. If that was his concern he'd have kept both his little boys indoors, warm, sheltered and shielded from any prying cameras.

I'm not gonna speculate re what anybody ELSE would be thinking under a different scenario... I can only assure you I'd be thinking he was at least behaving like the disinterested, disconnected, unhelpful husband he IS; but we mustn't forget disingenuous and deceitful, so it's par for the course--and befitting of a posing, hypocritical, pretender. JMO

:parrot:

fhc
12-21-2009, 05:09 PM
The post in comments said "Josh did it." Also, called him an SOB and said "those that knew", "sworn to secrecy" that's what i remember

it wasn't a long post, only 3 lines, iirc

eyes4crime
12-21-2009, 05:15 PM
To any medical professionals........how long does poisen stay in a frozen corpse???
If Susan is found soon, will it still show in her hair? blood? stomach etc????
Sorry to ask such a morbid question but I am thinking JP is buying time, thinking what he did will no longer prove it by evidence.

Have to ask - what's the poison and when was it given in relation to when she died; also was it injected or oral. If Susan died quickly after injestion, there wouldn't be enough time for the poison to be metabolized and deposited in the hair and nails. Dead people can't metabolize anything! Might be evidence in other organs such as the stomach. mho

If the poison was metabolized over time, it would be deposited in the hair and nails, skin and other organs, whatever sites the poison deposited itself in. Sorry, this isn't very clear but it's a complex question. mho

fran
12-21-2009, 05:16 PM
Just now catching up reading, fran, and cannot find the comment. Has it been removed? If so, could you state what it says? That has been done here in the past. TIA

I have it. Am I allowed to post it?

fran

ps............I still have the window open from when I found it so I don't show it deleted yet....fran

Patty G
12-21-2009, 05:18 PM
I have it. Am I allowed to post it?

fran

ps............I still have the window open from when I found it so I don't show it deleted yet....fran

You have to link to it ...

what about this?
12-21-2009, 05:20 PM
The problem is, often times, the woman must WANT help. I've seen many cases where they were offered help, (ie Susan was advised to leave him), but they either want to do it on their own or aren't ready to admit defeat yet.

I know someone it took 7 years before she finally got out and it was only because he literally tried to kill her and she wasn't even then convinced. It was co-workers who saw her bruises and cuts who persuaded her to turn the POS in. She even waited a few days before telling her parents because she was waiting for some of the bruises to go away because she knew they would be horrified.

The majority of these cases there is no evidence of physical violence, just control, manipulation, angry words. Many of these every-day Joes just don't look like they'd actually hurt anyone, other than words.................That is until you see them in full battle mode,...............then they're a different person.

This is just what I've learned from friends and from the pages of WS. Thank goodness I never had to endure anything like this............and bless all who have survived these types of situations.

fran

I think she did seek support from her church. Unfortunately, the church elders usually side with the husband no matter what. She was made to feel guilty.

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 05:20 PM
I have it. Am I allowed to post it?

fran

ps............I still have the window open from when I found it so I don't show it deleted yet....fran

Maybe leave off the name of the poster, IMO. I have read comments in this thread about what had been stated in newspaper comments. I would not understand what it could not be stated.

Sorry, I did not see the comment about having to link to it. I guess I do not understand because some of the comments have been discussed and/or referred to in this very thread.

Thanks anyway, fran! You are a gem!

fran
12-21-2009, 05:21 PM
You have to link to it ...

I could link to it, but it's been removed so it won't show up when you go to the link. I have a copy of it though.

Actually, I think I better not post it on the open forum. It may have been removed for a reason. No sense in causing trouble.

fran

fhc
12-21-2009, 05:24 PM
I could link to it, but it's been removed so it won't show up when you go to the link. I have a copy of it though.

Actually, I think I better not post it on the open forum. It may have been removed for a reason. No sense in causing trouble.

fran

Since you have it, would you mind filling in the blanks to my post? For the record and accuracy?

The post in comments said "Josh did it." Also, called him an SOB and said "those that knew", "sworn to secrecy" that's what i remember

it wasn't a long post, only 3 lines, iirc

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 05:24 PM
I think she did seek support from her church. Unfortunately, the church elders usually side with the husband no matter what. She was made to feel guilty.

What do you base this on?

Patty G
12-21-2009, 05:24 PM
check out this comment (sworn to secrecy -- we all know you did it)

docscoob: 12/21/2009 11:37:00 AM

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14039869&PageIndex=5

People write anything just to get people talking about it. Nobody writes "sworn to secrecy" and then says: "we all know you did it"! and then publically posts at a news website. :crazy:

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 05:26 PM
I could link to it, but it's been removed so it won't show up when you go to the link. I have a copy of it though.

Actually, I think I better not post it on the open forum. It may have been removed for a reason. No sense in causing trouble.

fran

the sltrib has a mod that posts occasionally saying basically that any out & out accusatory posts will be deleted & they ask that posters flag those comments...that 'sworn to secrecy' post probably got flagged because it was definitely accusatory or a mod happened to see it....I've seen plenty of posts there that said 'he did it', etc.....JMOOOC.

ETA: but thinking about it, you could be right...maybe someone really needs to keep things under wraps for now.

fhc
12-21-2009, 05:31 PM
the sltrib has a mod that posts occasionally saying basically that any out & out accusatory posts will be deleted & they ask that posters flag those comments...that 'sworn to secrecy' post probably got flagged because it was definitely accusatory or a mod happened to see it....I've seen plenty of posts there that said 'he did it', etc.....JMOOOC.

ETA: but thinking about it, you could be right...maybe someone really needs to keep things under wraps for now.

or maybe they have traced the poster and are interviewing them now. We can hope anyway.

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 05:33 PM
It could have been a poster on that site trying to stir things up, but I just betcha LE has a copy of it anyway and checks that person out. The newspaper has all user information. JMO

And yes, I do believe that sometimes people who know something will post. Not often, but it does happen.

MOO

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 05:39 PM
In California, the in-laws could apply for a guardianship of the minors. They could ask for temporary orders at the same time they filed the petition. I actually think I could make a good case for them to have guardianship on a temporary basis, based on the facts of the case. The comments that he is like a ghost and can barely function, that his wife is missing but he won't cooperate and got the heck out of town without notification to LE, the midnight camping in subfreezing temps, being confused about the day it was (points to mental instability), getting fired as a result and thus having no means to support the kids, being an uncooeprative person of interest in the investigation of the disappearance of his wife, having had the police called on him before, the statement that his toddler and preschooler are giving HIM the support he needs, instead of vice versa, etc.
Now, he could state, in response, that he has help with the boys from his father and that his father is providing for them. My counter argument would be that the father seems to be enabling his son, does and did not have his DIL's best interest at heart and is helping to hinder the investigation. I would point out that looking out for Susan's best interest is in the children's best interests and that not doing so is bad for the children.
I would also argue that an enabler cannot control a possibly unstable man and is not the best person to provide protection for the children.
Finally, and most important (but related), I would argue that without a guardianship, josh is free to leave his father's residence and go anywhere, with those babies, at any time and given his condition and lack of funds, that could be detrimental to the children.
Would I win for the Cox's? I would predict that in California, no, not right away, with the exception that the court may grant a guardianship to them but allow physical custody to remain with the father as long as he stays with his FIL. However, in Utah, which would be the proper jurisdiction as that is the last residence of the children for the last six months, the Cox's would have a far better chance of getting a "full" guardianship and taking custody because of the feelings in the state about josh and what he may have done to his wife and now, because of the information that has come out about how his FIL tried to break up the marriage, and steer josh away from his faith. With the right judge or custody evaluator, that could prove a boon to a case brought by the Cox's. I'd like to see them try, for the sake of the kids!
On another note, I think it should be policy that children of murdered parents should, all else being equal, go to the family of the victim, rather than of the murderer.

:clap: (underscore, bbm) Excellent analysis and argument.

And the part re his baby and toddler sons providing *him* w emotional support? CLASSIC NPD and does not surprise me in the least that rather than considering what would most help his children thru the devastating unbearable loss of their mother it is instead ALL ABOUT JP. Give me a bucket, somebody, quick... :sick:

:parrot:

lemonmoussetart
12-21-2009, 05:39 PM
OhMyGosh!

THAT is scary!

"Smoking gun"

Wowser!

"Sworn to secrecy"


OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here.................Another woman?

Time will tell,
:(
fran

the post referred to has disappeared---what did it say? even better, did anyone save it? thanks

fhc
12-21-2009, 05:43 PM
THANK YOU FRAN, it sounded personal to me. Did you feel the same?

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 05:45 PM
fran, thanks so very much!

fran
12-21-2009, 05:45 PM
THANK YOU FRAN, it sounded personal to me. Did you feel the same?

DEFINITELY!

More than one person knows the answer. I bet LE knows too!

Josh needs to give it up!

JMHO
fran

fhc
12-21-2009, 05:48 PM
DEFINITELY!

More than one person knows the answer. I bet LE knows too!

Josh needs to give it up!

JMHO
fran

and this doctor did not have a running commentary there, it was a single post, iirc
or could the name = document holder? that would be great

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 05:54 PM
When Chris Coleman went to his parents house to stay, detectives were not even trying to hide the fact that they were parked near the parents house and followed them everywhere. It was at the parents house where Coleman was arrested.

Josh, better watch out, go ahead and pout 'cause LE is coming for you! It is a matter of time!

what about this?
12-21-2009, 05:54 PM
What do you base this on?

I have a very good friend who was in a similar situation. Her husband was in a high position in that church. When a man attains that position, they are believed to speak "the word of God". Women are capable of "speaking the word of Satan". Since she chose to leave with her children, she was told to find another temple. At that point, she left for good with her children.

Please read the history of this church. No, I did not know Susan, but this church has standard practices in these cases.

Patty G
12-21-2009, 05:55 PM
I could link to it, but it's been removed so it won't show up when you go to the link. I have a copy of it though.

Actually, I think I better not post it on the open forum. It may have been removed for a reason. No sense in causing trouble.

fran

BBM

Thought I'd bump up this post because now I am totally confused on why the comment from the other site, which is now gone, is showing up at WS in an open forum. :crazy:

lonetraveler
12-21-2009, 05:55 PM
Gitana1's statement really struck a cord with me - but how many men (and unfortunately most are men) do kill their wives/girlfriends and are still walking around. So many of them lawyer-up and make the detectives prove the case. Why are women so replaceable? Would not walking away or a divorce be so much better? That said, I believe it has to do with ego and a controlling nature. Just look at Scott Peterson, O.J. I cannot remember her first name but the I believe is Young, and she was murdered while her hubby was away. He lawyered up very quickly and is now surrounded by his parents who are evidently well connected. There is a local mystery of Debbie DeMello where her husband said he and his wife were riding in a car, an argument arose, she got out and then that's the end. Nothing more was found and he now is walking around free.

She was never found, no clues. Her family is still searching. Why? This was a small city, small budget, she was not a well-connected woman - why did her disappearance garner little except for signs on telephone poles? She, same as Susan, had small children.

Is the score card in the favor of the woman? I have my doubts.

If the media and pressure from family hadn't been volcanic ,I believe Drew Peterson would still be taunting the camera folks, riding his motorcycle and thumbing his nose at neighbors.

Why does it take certain cases to grib the hearts and minds of everyday citizens? Every woman who disappears deserves her day in court; even in abstentia!

I'm trying to catch up but will post this anyway. You probably already know this. Myabe you will feel a bit better if you know that Jason Young was arrested last week for his wife, Michelle Young's murder. This happened close to Raleigh, NC.

fhc
12-21-2009, 05:58 PM
BBM

Thought I'd bump up this post because now I am totally confused on why the comment from the other site, which is now gone, is showing up at WS in an open forum. :crazy:

I had posted parts of it already but couldn't remember all of it and asked for accuracy and clarification for the record. So, i'm to blame, if anyone.

what about this?
12-21-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm trying to catch up but will post this anyway. You probably already know this. Myabe you will feel a bit better if you know that Jason Young was arrested last week for his wife, Michelle Young's murder. This happened close to Raleigh, NC.

Yes, yes, YES! Thanks for letting us know! I followed that case - OMG, I'm so happy!

fran
12-21-2009, 06:02 PM
BBM

Thought I'd bump up this post because now I am totally confused on why the comment from the other site, which is now gone, is showing up at WS in an open forum. :crazy:

Other posters said they'd noted that at the other site they would remove posts that seemed accusatory. So I thought that was why it was removed.

Because I didn't copy the post word for word, I figured it was ok. If not, just let me know and I'll delete it. I did say 'rumor.'

Thanks,
fran

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm trying to catch up but will post this anyway. You probably already know this. Myabe you will feel a bit better if you know that Jason Young was arrested last week for his wife, Michelle Young's murder. This happened close to Raleigh, NC.

:woohoo:

Hi friend :hug: Yes another disgusting excuse for a husband and "human" being bites the dust... TG at least JY's not still out endangering other women, breathing and wasting the free oxygen...

:parrot:

Patty G
12-21-2009, 06:05 PM
Other posters said they'd noted that at the other site they would remove posts that seemed accusatory. So I thought that was why it was removed.

Because I didn't copy the post word for word, I figured it was ok. If not, just let me know and I'll delete it. I did say 'rumor.'

Thanks,
fran

All I know is we are suppose to link to the comment and not post rumors.

fhc
12-21-2009, 06:06 PM
:woohoo:

Hi friend :hug: Yes another disgusting excuse for a husband and "human" being bites the dust... TG at least JY's not still out endangering other women, breathing and wasting the free oxygen...

:parrot:

or a nurse!

fran
12-21-2009, 06:10 PM
All I know is we are suppose to link to the comment and not post rumors.

Well, I removed my post so the problem is solved.

fran

nursebeeme
12-21-2009, 06:11 PM
All I know is we are suppose to link to the comment and not post rumors.
the comment was there at one point and had already been linked to. It was deleted. I call apples and oranges. It is an interesting comment for sure imhoo.

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 06:12 PM
I have a very good friend who was in a similar situation. Her husband was in a high position in that church. When a man attains that position, they are believed to speak "the word of God". Women are capable of "speaking the word of Satan". Since she chose to leave with her children, she was told to find another temple. At that point, she left for good with her children.

Please read the history of this church. No, I did not know Susan, but this church has standard practices in these cases.

Doing my best to avoid religious discussion, I'll just say that my experience in the LDS church is the polar opposite of that. No one, at any level in the church, will argue that "speaking the word of God" in any way trumps simple right and wrong. God would not tell someone to abuse his wife.

That's not to say that your friend might not have had a bad local bishop - who knows? But the church doesn't espouse men abusing wives and children, period.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 06:13 PM
or a nurse!

aw geeez it's true, omg if that isn't enough to give you nightmares... ("uh... that's okay doc I'm feelin alot better, I'm outa here!") :eek:


:parrot:

fhc
12-21-2009, 06:18 PM
aw geeez it's true, omg if that isn't enough to give you nightmares... ("uh... that's okay doc I'm feelin alot better, I'm outa here!") :eek:


:parrot:

ot, wasn't he recently kicked out of nursing school? How he ever got in is a mystery. Now with formal charges, we can rest easier, for sure.

Amster
12-21-2009, 06:21 PM
Josh is not "high up" in the church....he thought the church was ruining his marriage. For whatever reason, Susan hadn't taken her kids and left or kicked him out. She seems to have a lot of friends and support from her family. Why she chose to stay with him we may never know.

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 06:22 PM
I had posted parts of it already but couldn't remember all of it and asked for accuracy and clarification for the record. So, i'm to blame, if anyone.

Well, we all wanted to read about it - it is MY fault if anything. If anyone cares to read many pages back on this very thread, other comments from the newspaper were referred to without a link and no one said anything at all.

MOO

what about this?
12-21-2009, 06:22 PM
Doing my best to avoid religious discussion, I'll just say that my experience in the LDS church is the polar opposite of that. No one, at any level in the church, will argue that "speaking the word of God" in any way trumps simple right and wrong. God would not tell someone to abuse his wife.

That's not to say that your friend might not have had a bad local bishop - who knows? But the church doesn't espouse men abusing wives and children, period.

Thanks, and that's good to know. I know that she was totally devastated, having given her life to that church. Her children had to leave the life that they had known, also. I know that there are "bad apples" everywhere - and I think it is dangerous to let a church or another person do your thinking and set your personal ethics. She and the children are doing very well today, but it was hard going for a while.

kiki the parrot
12-21-2009, 06:23 PM
ot, wasn't he recently kicked out of nursing school? How he ever got in is a mystery. Now with formal charges, we can rest easier, for sure.

Yes expelled in August ... his budding career evidently "nipped in the bud" before his recent arrest...

:parrot:

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 06:25 PM
I know most of you have followed cases like this a lot closer than I have; but I can't help but feel a little discouraged about how this is playing out, to this point. It's just so unjust. You have a father - a man who appears to be a kind, decent man - who has lost a daughter. And, for all intents and purposes, he's lost two grandsons, as well. And he has to see his sweet, little grandson behind a crowd of people?

I know it's only been a couple weeks. But it would seem to me that they would have enough information, at this point, to at least have him under 24-hour surveillance. The fact that he could just jump in his car and drive 800 miles with his boys seems wrong.

gliving
12-21-2009, 06:26 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S32&casenumber=92-3-02909-8&searchtype=sName&token=11F9CCCFEDD1B18FB2BC7BDE7F54BAB4&dt=1045DFC4CE0B89B7F3D6D6CCBB54FD7B

Josh's parent's divorce proceedings with regards to the children. Could a WS legal eagle explain what all this is about? Thanks!

LaLaw2000
12-21-2009, 06:31 PM
Good Lord! That is a very hard to understand divorce case. It is long and confusing with dates at the bottom as late as 2008.

fhc
12-21-2009, 06:31 PM
story on HLN Prime News right now

Amster
12-21-2009, 06:33 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S32&casenumber=92-3-02909-8&searchtype=sName&token=11F9CCCFEDD1B18FB2BC7BDE7F54BAB4&dt=1045DFC4CE0B89B7F3D6D6CCBB54FD7B

Josh's parent's divorce proceedings with regards to the children. Could a WS legal eagle explain what all this is about? Thanks!

No legal eagle, but looks like a mess. Restraining orders, contempt citations and 5 kids! wow

fhc
12-21-2009, 06:34 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S32&casenumber=92-3-02909-8&searchtype=sName&token=11F9CCCFEDD1B18FB2BC7BDE7F54BAB4&dt=1045DFC4CE0B89B7F3D6D6CCBB54FD7B

Josh's parent's divorce proceedings with regards to the children. Could a WS legal eagle explain what all this is about? Thanks!

This link isn't working, is anyone else able to open?

what about this?
12-21-2009, 06:40 PM
And now controlling the investigation! OMG - the consummate actor. There is EVIL in this world.

Amster
12-21-2009, 06:40 PM
This link isn't working, is anyone else able to open?

Opens fine for me...

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 06:41 PM
This link isn't working, is anyone else able to open?

Me too. This is the error message I am getting.





Superior Court Case Summary



An input error has occured.

Please return to the search screen and re-enter your search values.

Amster
12-21-2009, 06:42 PM
And now controlling the investigation! OMG - the consummate actor. There is EVIL in this world.

Huh?? Who? :waitasec:

GingerRed
12-21-2009, 06:42 PM
No legal eagle, but looks like a mess. Restraining orders, contempt citations and 5 kids! wow

I haven't looked at the filings yet, but I will note that restraining orders are SOP in every divorce filed in WA state. Now, it there's a protection order for DV, that's something. But even the most amicable divorce in this state comes with some sort of restraining order. Many are just generic as in not incurring new joint debt, refraining from harassing one another et cetera. I'd have to read the particular orders.

There should be a checkbox to surrender firearms. If that's checked, you'd expect there was some kind of DV accusation being made.

ETA: Ok, looking at the summary, the restraining order came along with the original paperwork the day of the divorce petition. Standard stuff, this is not anything one can call messy in and of itself. The only thing that raises any kind of flag (I had a litigious ex in WA so this all makes sense to me) is the contempt. It could be something minor or something major. In my case I had two contempt issues. One was parental kidnapping for a week. The other was him taking a new credit card in both our names. One is minor, one is major, pretty hard to tell from the summary, but in and of itself, this is a normal looking docket in WA.

what about this?
12-21-2009, 06:45 PM
Huh?? Who? :waitasec:

Josh will not cooperate - he had to have planned for a long time.

Why, after all this time, is the fact that he was "controlling" and problems in the marriage just coming into the news now? It's been here for a while --

Why haven't people spoken out right from the very beginning?

fhc
12-21-2009, 06:48 PM
Opens fine for me...

Do you have a middle initial? not looking specifically at divorce now, went back to only SP entry and there is a whole page.

fran
12-21-2009, 06:49 PM
I know most of you have followed cases like this a lot closer than I have; but I can't help but feel a little discouraged about how this is playing out, to this point. It's just so unjust. You have a father - a man who appears to be a kind, decent man - who has lost a daughter. And, for all intents and purposes, he's lost two grandsons, as well. And he has to see his sweet, little grandson behind a crowd of people?

I know it's only been a couple weeks. But it would seem to me that they would have enough information, at this point, to at least have him under 24-hour surveillance. The fact that he could just jump in his car and drive 800 miles with his boys seems wrong.

Unfortunately, this is the way it plays out over and over and over. It is hard to take, but after you've seen enough of these cases, there's really no way to predict exactly how it ends.

It's only been in the past 1 to 1 1/2 years that the grandparents have begun to fight back and have, in a few instances, been able to gain custody of the children, even before the husband is eventually arrested. That's where we got the 'ex parte' motion that's filed we mentioned earlier. The first case I'd ever seen it was in the Nancy Cooper case in NC, and now they've done it in a few others, Michelle Young in (NC), Kelly Morris (NC). I'm not sure if it's just NC or what? But it works!

Have faith. LE is doing their job. IF they have enough to arrest the husband, they will. We'd almost given up on Michelle's case, it had been three years. But last week her husband was finally arrested. Then there's the Mack(?) case where it took 10 years. Just a month ago it was Kelly Morris, it had been over a year.

The one common factor when LE finally gets their man. The family NEVER gives up. They keep searching, filing, going before the cameras, the courts, just plugging away. That's the key. NEVER give up!

JMHO
fran

what about this?
12-21-2009, 06:50 PM
DomCasual - I want to ask you honestly -- do you think that the people close to Susan who knew the truth -- to you think that they held back because of the beliefs of their church? Were they just "trying to believe the best"? Do you think, in any way, that because of the population and influence in that area of the church -- maybe that's why this is so slow going? That this is influencing LE in any way?

gliving
12-21-2009, 06:50 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.namesearch&terms=accept&flashform=0

Here is the basis search form. Try putting in Steven C Powell and see if you can retrieve it. Also his mother Terrica.

Granted, Steven C Powell is a common name, but the County of Spokane has records of debt collections against this name also. Must run in the family if this is the same person.

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 06:52 PM
Josh will not cooperate - he had to have planned for a long time.

Why, after all this time, is the fact that he was "controlling" and problems in the marriage just coming into the news now? It's been here for a while --

Why haven't people spoken out right from the very beginning?

I think most people close were in denial and hoping for the best. More and more will come out now.

Amster
12-21-2009, 06:53 PM
If it's true that Powell Sr. was sending anti-Mormon literature and attempting to break up the marriage....IMO, he's a jerk. Controlling, just like his son.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 06:56 PM
I think alot of poisons will stay in the hair and nails a long time.

With the mention of other illnesses, I'm wondering if there was any long term poisoning going on here? I was kinda shocked to see Susan's hair in her most recent pics....it looks to have gotten very thin.

I wonder if her hair in the house,comb brush could be tested for poisoning
over a period of time and NAIL this guy!

Amster
12-21-2009, 06:56 PM
Do you have a middle initial? not looking specifically at divorce now, went back to only SP entry and there is a whole page.

Middle initial? Me? Sorry, I don't know what everyone is seeing....I just see a whole page of motions, dates, etc. :waitasec:

Dr.Fessel
12-21-2009, 06:58 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.namesearch&terms=accept&flashform=0

Here is the basis search form. Try putting in Steven C Powell and see if you can retrieve it. Also his mother Terrica.

Granted, Steven C Powell is a common name, but the County of Spokane has records of debt collections against this name also. Must run in the family if this is the same person.

I put his name in just like you have it and I get no records. I wonder if this is for only Washington residents?

gliving
12-21-2009, 07:08 PM
I put his name in just like you have it and I get no records. I wonder if this is for only Washington residents?

I'm not in Washington and it works for me. Maybe it's a browser issue? Anyway, it's just a peripheral topic, not really related to Susan.

emmcee
12-21-2009, 07:19 PM
I have clicked on this link 6 or 7 times and I can't find a comment at 11:37on 12/21/09 or anything by docscoob. I see that many other people can see it but for some reason that post is missing when I click on it. :banghead:


Same here.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 07:22 PM
Same here.

It is deleted now, off, gone...........

passionflower
12-21-2009, 07:24 PM
I can hardly wait til forensics come back from the house!
There was a crime, but will LE be able to PROVE it without a body???

passionflower
12-21-2009, 07:33 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.namesearch&terms=accept&flashform=0

Here is the basis search form. Try putting in Steven C Powell and see if you can retrieve it. Also his mother Terrica.

Granted, Steven C Powell is a common name, but the County of Spokane has records of debt collections against this name also. Must run in the family if this is the same person.

chip of the old block???

emmcee
12-21-2009, 07:36 PM
It is deleted now, off, gone...........

Can anyone tell us what it said?

Thanks in advance!

lemonmoussetart
12-21-2009, 07:38 PM
I put his name in just like you have it and I get no records. I wonder if this is for only Washington residents?

I'm not in WA--came up, no problem. Try another browser.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 07:42 PM
I found this:
Steven Powell and his ex-wife Terrica Powell, divorced in 1992, according to court records from the Spokane Superior Court in Washington State. The case carried on for years and remained in court through 2003, records show.

what about this?
12-21-2009, 07:44 PM
Susan is most likely dead, as we all know. I think it is SO disrespectful to her to let this go on for so long. In most cases, when the POI has such a STUPID story, they would interrogate that person on and on -- it seems that he is not getting the same treatment as another husband in the same circumstance.

Really, really, really - if someone else in a different part of the country had come up with this unbelievable story, they would be interrogated for hours and hours -- unbelievable. With all of our technology - we can't get to the truth? I cannot help believing that the church that is so present in that area has delayed blame and charging. I'm so sick for those children.

SusanB
12-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Ok, wow, it took me like an hour to go through all the posts since I was lastr on here.
That "sworn to secrecy" post probably was a phony. Anyone can write any old thing, maybe trying to stir up the dust.
As far as Mr. Cox saying something about not understanding why Josh went to the vigil - IMOO he has kept very civil and has not said a bad word about JP. But he can say whatever he wants, he is the missing woman's father, and I think he has been overly gracious with his remarks.
Poison can be found in many bodily fluids/ organs/hair/eye fluid, etc. and I'm sure these samples were taken at autopsy, but will not be available for awhile. Even a one time dose will show for most drugs.
Finally, people around the couple are coming out with statements about the status of the marriage, stuff we on here have been speculating about since the beginning. A friend said on TV JP was controlling, they fought constantly.
Joshy showed up IMO because he thought it would look better for him to the public. Even if he said not a word to anyone. Kinda lame, Josh. Obviously not a heartfelt action.
Josh is more comfortable staying with his father SP, with whom he has remained close and appears to agree with Josh's lifestyle. Utah was getting too antagonistic and anti-Josh.
I tend to agree with those here believing that it is only a matter of time until forensics come back, and an arrest will be made.
LE, believe it, is following Joshypoo 24/7. He isn't going anywhere without surveillance.
I know it is difficult to sit and wait for him to be arrested, but LE must have all their ducks in a row so JP does not go free on some sort of technicality or poor case development of the prosecution.
Joshua Powell is a liar, control freak, angry macho loser. And - a murderer IMOO. :loser:

darlin gal
12-21-2009, 07:48 PM
Susan is most likely dead, as we all know. I think it is SO disrespectful to her to let this go on for so long. In most cases, when the POI has such a STUPID story, they would interrogate that person on and on -- it seems that he is not getting the same treatment as another husband in the same circumstance.

Really, really, really - if someone else in a different part of the country had come up with this unbelievable story, they would be interrogated for hours and hours -- unbelievable. With all of our technology - we can't get to the truth? I cannot help believing that the church that is so present in that area has delayed blame and charging. I'm so sick for those children.



They questioned him till he cried for a lawyer. Once you have a lawyer, police can no longer interrogate you for hours. They want to talk to Josh, they have more questions for him.. He just refuses to answer any specific questions. He did answer "general ones" through his lawyer.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 07:58 PM
on another site I read they are thinking anti freeze in orange juice? with eggs and pancakes..........link to symptoms of anti freeze

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000774.htm

omegagal
12-21-2009, 07:58 PM
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S32&casenumber=92-3-02909-8&searchtype=sName&token=11F9CCCFEDD1B18FB2BC7BDE7F54BAB4&dt=1045DFC4CE0B89B7F3D6D6CCBB54FD7B

Josh's parent's divorce proceedings with regards to the children. Could a WS legal eagle explain what all this is about? Thanks!
I see confidential reports (sealed record) which usually involves children. I see that the wife lost her attorney. Steven Powell was trying to get custody of the children. And above all, I see they could not come to any agreements so he litigated it to death. (IMHO he litigated it since she apparently didn't have enough money to keep attorney). Lots of motions to compel, meaning they asked for information from one party and they refused to give it. Motions for show cause to determine why one party did not do as they were legally required. It's a mess....

But it's very similar to the abusive litigious attorney that I divorced...

Anyone with an NPD X out there care to elaborate on the similarities of their divorce???

omegagal
12-21-2009, 08:01 PM
Susan is most likely dead, as we all know. I think it is SO disrespectful to her to let this go on for so long. In most cases, when the POI has such a STUPID story, they would interrogate that person on and on -- it seems that he is not getting the same treatment as another husband in the same circumstance.

Really, really, really - if someone else in a different part of the country had come up with this unbelievable story, they would be interrogated for hours and hours -- unbelievable. With all of our technology - we can't get to the truth? I cannot help believing that the church that is so present in that area has delayed blame and charging. I'm so sick for those children.
The church has nothing to do with LE....

We've all kind of agreed (right Dom??) to keep religion out of this to the point of blaming the actual church.....

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:04 PM
I see confidential reports (sealed record) which usually involves children. I see that the wife lost her attorney. Steven Powell was trying to get custody of the children. And above all, I see they could not come to any agreements so he litigated it to death. (IMHO he litigated it since she apparently didn't have enough money to keep attorney). Lots of motions to compel, meaning they asked for information from one party and they refused to give it. Motions for show cause to determine why one party did not do as they were legally required. It's a mess....

But it's very similar to the abusive litigious attorney that I divorced...

Anyone with an NPD X out there care to elaborate on the similarities of their divorce???

In a no fault divorse state it took me 5 years to get a divorse from a less than 5 year marriage without children..........he kept FIRING his attorneys!!!
Finally he gave up. He even stole my car because it was in his name!!!

omegagal
12-21-2009, 08:11 PM
In a no fault divorse state it took me 5 years to get a divorse from a less than 5 year marriage without children..........he kept FIRING his attorneys!!!
Finally he gave up. He even stole my car because it was in his name!!!
Just about the same here.... my X filed motion before I could, he charged me with abusing him and his son. Later I would get copies of emails between him and his attorney where the attorney (knowing husband had no legal right to abandon me and home), asked him if there would be any way his son would say I was abusive on the stand... His second attorney accidently gave pages and pages of scheming emails to me....lol... Let X just try to run for office... lol.... (oh and by the way, if I end up missing, MY X HUSBAND DID IT!!!)

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:15 PM
Just about the same here.... my X filed motion before I could, he charged me with abusing him and his son. Later I would get copies of emails between him and his attorney where the attorney (knowing husband had no legal right to abandon me and home), asked him if there would be any way his son would say I was abusive on the stand... His second attorney accidently gave pages and pages of scheming emails to me....lol... Let X just try to run for office... lol.... (oh and by the way, if I end up missing, MY X HUSBAND DID IT!!!)

DURING THE DEATH OF Nicole Simpson, I heard she kept a safety deposit box in secret with a diary also, saying OJ killed her if she ended up dead......I did the same thing and gave the key to my best friend. It didn't do any good for NS but hearsay law is passed for Kathleen Savio........Thank heavens!!!

Patty G
12-21-2009, 08:22 PM
Prime News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNaBxqssIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdKp5N3msws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQxZzpdyNk

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 08:23 PM
DomCasual - I want to ask you honestly -- do you think that the people close to Susan who knew the truth -- to you think that they held back because of the beliefs of their church? Were they just "trying to believe the best"? Do you think, in any way, that because of the population and influence in that area of the church -- maybe that's why this is so slow going? That this is influencing LE in any way?

As far as her friends and family knowing - I really doubt it. I'm sure everyone close to her realized there were problems. But I doubt anyone of them thought he would be capable of something like this. And I tend to think that people just generally avoid discussing others' marital problems. Of course, everyone probably wishes they had done something in hindsight.

As for the investigation, I don't think the area or the church has anything to do with that. I could see that happening with a place like Colorado City, where there are a lot of FLDS people. But West Valley City is a modern suburb. People here are interested in getting justice for Susan. Look at the comments attached to any of the local media coverage of the story. They are universally negative, as it pertains to Josh. Susan's bishop has been at all the prayer vigils, and her stake (sort of a regional organization of members) has been implicitly involved with a lot of the search efforts. Assuming he's arrested and convicted, he will be excommunicated from the church - which will be among the least of his problems.

omegagal
12-21-2009, 08:31 PM
As far as her friends and family knowing - I really doubt it. I'm sure everyone close to her realized there were problems. But I doubt anyone of them thought he would be capable of something like this. And I tend to think that people just generally avoid discussing others' marital problems. Of course, everyone probably wishes they had done something in hindsight.

As for the investigation, I don't think the area or the church has anything to do with that. I could see that happening with a place like Colorado City, where there are a lot of FLDS people. But West Valley City is a modern suburb. People here are interested in getting justice for Susan. Look at the comments attached to any of the local media coverage of the story. They are universally negative, as it pertains to Josh. Susan's bishop has been at all the prayer vigils, and her stake (sort of a regional organization of members) has been implicitly involved with a lot of the search efforts. Assuming he's arrested and convicted, he will be excommunicated from the church - which will be among the least of his problems.
Dom - Domestic Violence is not a marital problem and shouldn't be treated as such. It's very dangerous to put a couple into "marital/couples counseling" when there is abuse suspected. Marital counseling assumes that there are issues with both individuals that jointly worked with, can enhance and improve the marriage. Here is a link to a copy of a report written by a licensed clinical psychologist listing the reasons why marital counseling should never be used in a suspected abusive marriage, it's very interesting folks:

http://unrighteous-dominion.com/?p=105

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:37 PM
What about this
Some people say 'it will be ok.'
People just can't believe there are very bad evil people around us daily.
I think because my X gaslighted me, allot of people thought I made up stuff
because it was so bizarre!
I would say very few people took Susan real serious.
They saw Josh in a different light.
What happens behind closed doors is a whole other world.
You really have to live it to believe it all.

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 08:41 PM
Dom - Domestic Violence is not a marital problem and shouldn't be treated as such. It's very dangerous to put a couple into "marital/couples counseling" when there is abuse suspected. Marital counseling assumes that there are issues with both individuals that jointly worked with, can enhance and improve the marriage. Here is a link to a copy of a report written by a licensed clinical psychologist listing the reasons why marital counseling should never be used in a suspected abusive marriage, it's very interesting folks:

http://unrighteous-dominion.com/?p=105

And if you know there is abuse happening in a marriage, then you try and help. But how do you know, if neither party says anything?

To my knowledge, there isn't a single one of their friends that have used the word "abuse" when describing their marriage. They've said he was controlling, and strange. But they haven't said, "I could see him doing this, because he was abusing her."

None of her friends were able to use hindsight in evaluating the situation. They probably all thought the marriage was at best off. But I doubt a single one of them said, "You know, I worry she might turn up missing or killed one day."

omegagal
12-21-2009, 08:44 PM
What about this
Some people say 'it will be ok.'
People just can't believe there are very bad evil people around us daily.
I think because my X gaslighted me, allot of people thought I made up stuff
because it was so bizarre!
I would say very few people took Susan real serious.
They saw Josh in a different light.
What happens behind closed doors is a whole other world.
You really have to live it to believe it all.
Amen, lady.... People don't want to believe that anybody could really be that cruel to a loved one.... and the narcissistic psychopath knows that as well and uses it to his advantage. Very intelligent creatures, really... just evil to the core.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:45 PM
JVM, ISSUES is discussing Susan tonight

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:45 PM
Dog the bounty hunter called Josh STUPID!

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Dog the bounty hunter called Josh STUPID!

Let's hope and pray he's not so stupid that he gets away with murdering his wife. The true test of his stupidity, or lack thereof, will be where he spends the lion's share of the rest of his days on earth.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Blue cap interview...Josh is searching for words as he talks.........hesitation in speech.

Amster
12-21-2009, 08:49 PM
Unless Susan told people that Josh was abusing her, and there were no bruises or outward signs, how was the person/persons recommending counsilling supposed to know? Has anyone said that Susan said Josh was physically abusing her?

eyes4crime
12-21-2009, 08:49 PM
Dom - Domestic Violence is not a marital problem and shouldn't be treated as such. It's very dangerous to put a couple into "marital/couples counseling" when there is abuse suspected. Marital counseling assumes that there are issues with both individuals that jointly worked with, can enhance and improve the marriage. Here is a link to a copy of a report written by a licensed clinical psychologist listing the reasons why marital counseling should never be used in a suspected abusive marriage, it's very interesting folks:

http://unrighteous-dominion.com/?p=105

BBM
imo you can't get much better than this! The reasons that are given to avoid marital/couple therapy are EXCELLENT! The Dr. sure isn't letting the abuser off the hook in any shape or form - this article gives the sole responsibility of abusing and getting help TO the abuser. Thanks for this!

omegagal
12-21-2009, 08:50 PM
And if you know there is abuse happening in a marriage, then you try and help. But how do you know, if neither party says anything?

To my knowledge, there isn't a single one of their friends that have used the word "abuse" when describing their marriage. They've said he was controlling, and strange. But they haven't said, "I could see him doing this, because he was abusing her."

None of her friends were able to use hindsight in evaluating the situation. They probably all thought the marriage was at best off. But I doubt a single one of them said, "You know, I worry she might turn up missing or killed one day."
Dom - That's VERY observant on your part. Most women do not have a "name" for what they are going through. I have found that time and time again. They didn't know WHAT it was they were going through... only that it wasn't normal. The abuser psychologically tries to put the victim in a state that they start to really wonder what's going on in their own reality. It's called "crazymaking". You are so right..... I'm certain a lot of people did not know what it was that Susan was going through. What I would like to see is that when a woman does go to her bishop (add any church leader in any religion) that the bishop is able to determine after just 3 or 4 sessions that the woman needs to see a professional counselor that can then determine if this is an abuse issue. Once a woman "names" what she is going through... and only then... can progress be made. Honestly, I applaud you for recognizing that people didn't know... what it was that was happening to Susan....

passionflower
12-21-2009, 08:52 PM
When Jane says hoping for a happy ending, I noticed Susans dad shook his head no.
I think LE told him there is no hope of an alive Susan. Mr. Cox has accepted it, but wants her back for burial.......JMOO

SusanB
12-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Mr. Cox is on Jane V-M right now.
He says he did not know that Susan wanted a divorce from Josh as hr friend claimed.
He wanted to go, but JP huddled in a group protected by unbrellas.
Rachael Marini is the friend, she states JP increasingly controlling and they fought.
Grandpa wanted to walk over and see little Charlie, but thought it inappropriate at that time.
Dog the Bounty hunter stated JP murdered his wife.
GP saying Josh is "under pressure", but saying he now wants answers since JP is with family, and he wants to find his daughter and wants a viable story from Josh.
Blue cap interview replayed. He looks so befuddled and confused! Making up his story, they are saying.
Jane wants to know why is there not a video tape somewhere? (Good question Jane!) No one knows on the show.
Poor Mr. Cox, he looks so haggard, and stressed, like he hasn't slept for a week. I feel so badly for him - he seems to be such a nice man, very courteous and a gentleman.
Nothing really new here.
Come on Josh, please just tell us where her body is!! :sick:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 09:02 PM
arghhhh, NG is covering Tiger again

GingerRed
12-21-2009, 09:04 PM
An anonymous donor is now offering a 10K reward for Susan! Link (http://www.examiner.com/x-11513-Seattle-StayatHome-Moms-Examiner~y2009m12d21-10000-reward-for-information-about-whereabouts-of-Susan-Powell)


Today, ksl.com reports that an anonymous donor has donated $10,000 for information that leads to the whereabouts of missing mother, Susan Powell.

ETA: Link (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9105519) to KSL item as well.

burbqueen
12-21-2009, 09:06 PM
To me abuse doesn't have to mean a beating. Abuse can be emotional, psychological and mental. Yes there are lots of women that suffer at the hands of those kind of abuse and stay silent. I agree with omegal. Abuse cannot be resolved with some good counselling. If a person belittles you, calls you names, controls your whole life then that person is a pos and probably has developed this as a learned behavior. You may try a round of counseling but if they don't change I'm ditching the idiot. I don't want my kids to even see that.

Too many people try to stay and it ends in disaster or they fail to really get to know the person they are dating or ignore warning signs. Not that anyone is to blame if they get killed by a spouse, just a little perspective.

AmandaReckonwith
12-21-2009, 09:11 PM
Vigil pics added.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Powell/

passionflower
12-21-2009, 09:12 PM
To me abuse doesn't have to mean a beating. Abuse can be emotional, psychological and mental. Yes there are lots of women that suffer at the hands of those kind of abuse and stay silent. I agree with omegal. Abuse cannot be resolved with some good counselling. If a person belittles you, calls you names, controls your whole life then that person is a pos and probably has developed this as a learned behavior. You may try a round of counseling but if they don't change I'm ditching the idiot. I don't want my kids to even see that.

Too many people try to stay and it ends in disaster or they fail to really get to know the person they are dating or ignore warning signs. Not that anyone is to blame if they get killed by a spouse, just a little perspective.

Living with this type of person is like walking on egg shells, you never know what might make this person mad. It could be that you ironed a shirt wrong,
didn't mop the floor to suit them, talked to long on the phone, you just never know! Get out ladies if you are in this type of marriage!!!
Maybe we need a thread on ABUSE to save someone like Susan!

lemonmoussetart
12-21-2009, 09:16 PM
Vigil pics added.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Powell/

Just wanted to say thanks for all you do here AmandaReckonwith :blowkiss:

omegagal
12-21-2009, 09:41 PM
Abuse and the abuser are no more a "marital problem" than alcoholism and the alcoholic are a "marital problem". It's the abuser's problem....

Can we put that on a bumper sticker. ( :

http://pathwayscourses.samhsa.gov/vawc/images_vaw/control_wheel.gif

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 09:43 PM
Well - it took me a little while but I found all the links to the 3 earlier posts/rumors

<snip of really long post>
-I personally know Josh. I worked with him and his wife at Homenet Real Estate. I specifically remember a training class we had when his kids were crying and he went totally ape $#%^ on her in front of everyone because she wouldn't keep them quiet.
-Someone should take a look into his DEX advertising account. A couple of years ago he sent out a massive advertising campaign where his face was on a magnet on everyone's phonebooks that were sent out. It cost something like $60,000 or $80,000 or something crazy like that. He sat and bragged to all of us other agents about how smart he was because DEX bills after the campaign so if he tried it and he didn'g get any business he just wouldn't pay.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9088937&comments=true

The 'hangup on police officer' post (portions)

was called on his cell by an officer....hung up on him in the late afternoon....Josh arrived home....police were...waiting.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9077062&comments=true


Josh went to Pierce Community College (ETA -- see comments)

http://puyallup.komonews.com/content/attorney-husband-missing-puyallup-woman-submits-dna

SusanB
12-21-2009, 09:46 PM
arghhhh, NG is covering Tiger again
I have stopped watching NG anymore, she used to be so good, covering cases of crimes and missing people. Noe she's totally tabloid:sick:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 09:49 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I starte an abuse thread for all those that would like to add to it.
This is a bad time of year for allot of people.
Let's hope we can help someone out there.

DomCasual
12-21-2009, 09:51 PM
Just looking through some of Amanda's photos on her handy, dandy Photobucket link, and I saw something I hadn't seen before. It's from the article in Sunday's Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14035282): "Chuck Cox said he bought his daughter a cell phone when she moved to Utah so she could use it for emergencies. Joshua Powell knew about the phone, he said, but he and Judy paid the bill each month to ensure his daughter had a way to call them.

"We wanted her to be able to call us whenever she wanted -- just on the off chance that if something ever got really weird -- we wanted to cover all of our bases so she could call us for help," he said.

That seems pretty telling. I'm not sure how I missed the article. Does anyone know if that was the only cell phone Susan had - the one that was left on the bed when she was missing? I wonder what the story was about how that ended up getting purchased - if it was in response to a specific circumstance, or if was just the general feel of the marriage that he had.

passionflower
12-21-2009, 09:53 PM
Abuse and the abuser are no more a "marital problem" than alcoholism and the alcoholic are a "marital problem". It's the abuser's problem....

Can we put that on a bumper sticker. ( :

http://pathwayscourses.samhsa.gov/vawc/images_vaw/control_wheel.gif

Congrats on your 100th post....great wheel......wish I had seen that 20 years ago!!!

Patty G
12-21-2009, 09:53 PM
Josh went to Pierce Community College

http://puyallup.komonews.com/content/attorney-husband-missing-puyallup-woman-submits-dna

Where in the news article does it say Josh went to Pierce Community College?

eyes4crime
12-21-2009, 09:57 PM
Well - it took me a little while but I found all the links to the 3 earlier posts/rumors

<snip of really long post>
-I personally know Josh. I worked with him and his wife at Homenet Real Estate. I specifically remember a training class we had when his kids were crying and he went totally ape $#%^ on her in front of everyone because she wouldn't keep them quiet.
-Someone should take a look into his DEX advertising account. A couple of years ago he sent out a massive advertising campaign where his face was on a magnet on everyone's phonebooks that were sent out. It cost something like $60,000 or $80,000 or something crazy like that. He sat and bragged to all of us other agents about how smart he was because DEX bills after the campaign so if he tried it and he didn'g get any business he just wouldn't pay.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9088937&comments=true

The 'hangup on police officer' post (portions)

was called on his cell by an officer....hung up on him in the late afternoon....Josh arrived home....police were...waiting.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9077062&comments=true


Josh went to Pierce Community College

http://puyallup.komonews.com/content/attorney-husband-missing-puyallup-woman-submits-dna

Taken from the last link:

"Susan Powell's father, Charles Cox, said police found a wet spot in the home being dried by two fans, but police have declined to comment on that."

Honestly - can anyone believe he is still walking around?

omegagal
12-21-2009, 09:58 PM
Just looking through some of Amanda's photos on her handy, dandy Photobucket link, and I saw something I hadn't seen before. It's from the article in Sunday's Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14035282): "Chuck Cox said he bought his daughter a cell phone when she moved to Utah so she could use it for emergencies. Joshua Powell knew about the phone, he said, but he and Judy paid the bill each month to ensure his daughter had a way to call them.

"We wanted her to be able to call us whenever she wanted -- just on the off chance that if something ever got really weird -- we wanted to cover all of our bases so she could call us for help," he said.

That seems pretty telling. I'm not sure how I missed the article. Does anyone know if that was the only cell phone Susan had - the one that was left on the bed when she was missing? I wonder what the story was about how that ended up getting purchased - if it was in response to a specific circumstance, or if was just the general feel of the marriage that he had.
It's been discussed before but I think that Susan's dad knew that Josh controlled Susan's money and didn't want that to interfere with her being able to make a call. My X would never let us have a home phone and he would only pay for his and his son's phone. (he wanted to make sure his son always picked up the phone immediately if he called him) Phones are the perfect "control" vehicle....

passionflower
12-21-2009, 09:58 PM
Joy Bayhar on HLN just mentioned Susan, she may have a segment on her.

LogicalMinds
12-21-2009, 09:59 PM
On the thread that is about the sad murder of little Elizabeth Olten, we have been going over LOTs of info on "sociopaths" ...
people who lack the capacity to feel guilt, compassion and empathy

Here are some good links...really fits Josh
also it seems some sociopaths are into "business' (most more successful than Josh)
old Bernie Maddox is probably a sociopath

Scott Peterson...Drew Peterson....a whole line up of what I think of as "lizard" people
they remind me of the lizard under the skin lovely aliens in "V" tv show

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz0aKwECqTj

this is Dr Hare's site...he is an expert in sociopaths and wrote a book called "Without Conscience"

http://www.hare.org/

a pretty readable book (that I plan to read LOL...not too technical)...shows us how manipulative sociopaths are ...right among us....a lot of these abusive men are sociopaths
(apparently more men than women....but some, like the accused 15 yr old Allysa Bustamente are thought to be female sociopaths...I strongly believe that she is JMO)

reading over this stuff about Josh just reminds me of all I have learned on the thread for poor little Elizabeth

Here is a good interview with the author of "The Sociopath Next Door"

http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1097

Josh?? Yep Yep Yep

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 10:00 PM
Where in the news article does it say Josh went to Pierce Community College?

it's in the comments

SusanB
12-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Wow, Omega, you consistently amaze me! That graph you posted is awesome, and should be provided to everyone who may be in such a situation. I am listening top all of you posting on here with issues related to controlling/abusing partners. It makes me feel very blessed to be in the relationship I am in. So much can be learned from you guys - women who keep maintaining these type of relationships, decreasing self-esteem, and feelings of necessity to keep a man or they are worthless.
Women must be empowered with the knowledge that they do not NEED a man to be successful and productive!
Unfortunately, Susan Powell IMO had come to that realization, and was about to make a move towards her independence from a controlling abusive man. She was doing all the right things - preparing, good job to support herself and little boys, stashing money (I think someone said she was doing that), and obtaining counseling and support of her friends and family.
IMOO, she was getting ready, and JP knew that. He HAD to stop it! His control was slipping away, his "manhood" was being questioned, and now she was telling people! He was going to be the laughingstock of West Valley if he did not stop her soon!
Maybe something that weekend set his mind racing, she may have told him about wanting to divorce, or they argued about something. His plan had probably been in the back of his mind for some time, but suddenly he had to do it NOW. Without very good planning on the details. I think he did not think it all the way through, and let his anger/rage take over.
A lot of the story was made "as he went along" to make time periods fit, even if they did not make too much sense.
Again, all this is IMOHO.:angel:

Patty G
12-21-2009, 10:02 PM
it's in the comments

Ohhhhhhhhhh, in the comment section. :rolleyes:

passionflower
12-21-2009, 10:02 PM
http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive_signs.htm

a list of abuse signs

omegagal
12-21-2009, 10:07 PM
On the thread that is about the sad murder of little Elizabeth Olten, we have been going over LOTs of info on "sociopaths" ...
people who lack the capacity to feel guilt, compassion and empathy

Here are some good links...really fits Josh
also it seems some sociopaths are into "business' (most more successful than Josh)
old Bernie Maddox is probably a sociopath

Scott Peterson...Drew Peterson....a whole line up of what I think of as "lizard" people
they remind me of the lizard under the skin lovely aliens in "V" tv show

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz0aKwECqTj

this is Dr Hare's site...he is an expert in sociopaths and wrote a book called "Without Conscience"

http://www.hare.org/

a pretty readable book (that I plan to read LOL...not too technical)...shows us how manipulative sociopaths are ...right among us....a lot of these abusive men are sociopaths
(apparently more men than women....but some, like the accused 15 yr old Allysa Bustamente are thought to be female sociopaths...I strongly believe that she is JMO)

reading over this stuff about Josh just reminds me of all I have learned on the thread for poor little Elizabeth

Here is a good interview with the author of "The Sociopath Next Door"

http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1097

Josh?? Yep Yep Yep
There's a little bit of professional divide between sociopath and psychopath.... I'd venture to say Hare would put these men into the psychopath category since they don't have a lengthly criminal record and are less "anti-social" than sociopaths...

AmandaReckonwith
12-21-2009, 10:08 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhh, in the comment section. :rolleyes:

Comments sections often have a wealth of info. Sometimes, much better than the stuff thrown around on NG and the other tabloid-quasi-news-entertainment shows.

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Just looking through some of Amanda's photos on her handy, dandy Photobucket link, and I saw something I hadn't seen before. It's from the article in Sunday's Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14035282): "Chuck Cox said he bought his daughter a cell phone when she moved to Utah so she could use it for emergencies. Joshua Powell knew about the phone, he said, but he and Judy paid the bill each month to ensure his daughter had a way to call them.

"We wanted her to be able to call us whenever she wanted -- just on the off chance that if something ever got really weird -- we wanted to cover all of our bases so she could call us for help," he said.

That seems pretty telling. I'm not sure how I missed the article. Does anyone know if that was the only cell phone Susan had - the one that was left on the bed when she was missing? I wonder what the story was about how that ended up getting purchased - if it was in response to a specific circumstance, or if was just the general feel of the marriage that he had.

there's a post here that says Susan would have taken the cellphone her dad bought for her if she left of her own accord -- FWIW

6:43am - Fri Dec 11th, 2009

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8986844&comments=true

I haven't been able to find the reason that her dad bought the phone for her.

omegagal
12-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Wow, Omega, you consistently amaze me! That graph you posted is awesome, and should be provided to everyone who may be in such a situation. I am listening top all of you posting on here with issues related to controlling/abusing partners. It makes me feel very blessed to be in the relationship I am in. So much can be learned from you guys - women who keep maintaining these type of relationships, decreasing self-esteem, and feelings of necessity to keep a man or they are worthless.
Women must be empowered with the knowledge that they do not NEED a man to be successful and productive!
Unfortunately, Susan Powell IMO had come to that realization, and was about to make a move towards her independence from a controlling abusive man. She was doing all the right things - preparing, good job to support herself and little boys, stashing money (I think someone said she was doing that), and obtaining counseling and support of her friends and family.
IMOO, she was getting ready, and JP knew that. He HAD to stop it! His control was slipping away, his "manhood" was being questioned, and now she was telling people! He was going to be the laughingstock of West Valley if he did not stop her soon!
Maybe something that weekend set his mind racing, she may have told him about wanting to divorce, or they argued about something. His plan had probably been in the back of his mind for some time, but suddenly he had to do it NOW. Without very good planning on the details. I think he did not think it all the way through, and let his anger/rage take over.
A lot of the story was made "as he went along" to make time periods fit, even if they did not make too much sense.
Again, all this is IMOHO.:angel:
I am just getting over my divorce financially but have been working toward putting together a 12 week group support system for abused women in the church. Keep me in your prayers that I attain that goal. I'm taking Susan's situation personally. Even though I don't know her, I keep saying "What if I could have helped her!!" OMG, I'm sure that is what her family and friends must be going through times a million. It just breaks my heart!!

passionflower
12-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Abusive Relationships:

Using Intimidation
• Making your partner afraid by using looks, actions, gestures.

• Smashing or destroying things.

• Destroying or confiscating your partner's property.

• Abusing pets as a display of power and control.

• Silent or overt raging.

• Displaying weapons or threatening their use.

• Making physical threats.

Using Emotional Abuse
• Putting your partner down.

• Making your partner feel bad about himself or herself.

• Calling your partner names.

• Playing mind games.

• Interrogating your partner.

• Harassing or intimidating your partner.

• "Checking up on" your partner's activities or whereabouts.

• Humiliating your partner, weather through direct attacks or "jokes".

• Making your partner feel guilty.

• Shaming your partner.

Using Isolation
• Controlling what your partner does, who he or she sees and talks to, what he or she reads, where he or she goes.

• Limiting your partner’s outside involvement.

• Demanding your partner remain home when you are not with them.

• Cutting your partner off from prior friends, activities, and social interaction.

• Using jealousy to justify your actions.

(Jealousy is the primary symptom of abusive relationships; it is also a core component of Love Addiction.)

Minimizing, Denying and Blame Shifting
• Making light of the abuse and not taking your partner’s concerns about it seriously.

• Saying the abuse did not happen, or wasn't that bad.

• Shifting responsibility for your abusive behavior to your partner. (i.e: I did it because you ______.)

• Saying your partner caused it.

Using Children
• Making your partner feel guilty about the children.

• Using the children to relay messages.

• Using visitation to harass your partner.

• Threatening to take the children away.

Using Male Privilege
• Treating your partner like a servant.

• Making all the big decisions.

• Acting like the "master of the castle."

• Being the one to define men’s and women’s or the relationship's roles.

Using Economic Abuse
• Preventing your partner from getting or keeping a job.

• Making your partner ask for money.

• Giving your partner an allowance.

• Taking your partner’s money.

• Not letting your partner know about or have access to family income.

any of this remind us of some of these guys that kill their spouses???

Texas Mist
12-21-2009, 10:12 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhh, in the comment section. :rolleyes:

the purpose of my post w/ those 3 links was to backup the previous post I made today regarding that information...it's way upthread so you may have missed it.

It was not my intention to mislead anyone earlier, or now.

Apologies if I did.