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View Full Version : UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #4


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Taminator
12-23-2009, 02:55 AM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????

This woman has been on show after show since the beginning. Never have I heard her mention any spill on the floor prior to today. I'm not buying it being just some little spill that Josh was so eager and wonderful to clean up. I've spilled stuff on my carpet before. A glass full of water...kids spilling milk, soda, whatnot. Never have I had to use 2 fans to dry it. Or a carpet cleaner. Usually a spill requires a couple towels to sop it up, a little bit of cleaner, and then a dry folded towel to soak up the rest of the moisture. She has some sort of angle going on here. I don't think she has even known either of them long enough to have any kind of say about anything. Her credibility just went down a couple more notches, IMO. Ugg:banghead:hhhhhh.

lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 02:55 AM
Why would his hands be nearly frostbitten? Because he'd had them in water or spent a considerable time in the cold without gloves. Why would he do that in the middle of the night? He must have encountered hard earth when digging a hole deep enough to bury her. You don't get frostbite from throwing someone off a bridge.

This takes me back to the "Blue Cap Interview" and something I've been wondering for awhile. Does anyone know if Josh is left or right-handed?

During that interview he was tugging at his hat with his left hand. Even when he pulled down the right side of the cap (it looked awkward to me), he went over with his left hand. Think that would be very strange for someone who is right-handed. Unless they didn't want that hand on camera.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 02:58 AM
Maybe he didn't have his wedding ring on.

STEADFAST
12-23-2009, 03:11 AM
The reason I posted the article re "frostbitten" or "windburned" hands is because it makes clear that it is only after second trip that this is noticed by a neighbor (TP).

That would seem to make it just as plausible that the chaffing or chapped hands came from from digging out, ie moving and possibly reburying a body. Which would have increased the exposure--had it been a spur of the moment (woops forgot a shovel gotta use w/e I've got) thing. But surely he would've gone prepared on his return trip(?)

If it were just "windburn," his face would've been windburned as well... which it didn't appear to be tho it's hard to tell because it's still cold, and faces are always exposed.

:parrot:

Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

Melanie
12-23-2009, 04:10 AM
Josh must love to drive and have plenty of gas money!

After watching the JVM clip - this is just so weird. This is the first I've heard that Josh spilled something on the kitchen floor and cleaned it up. Is this a different mess than the one in the living room (with the fans). What a clumsy little buggar.

Anyway, to get to your point. Josh is saying he's going to lose his home. So why didn't he go to work on Monday? Oh yah, he forgot what day it was. Then he has money for gas, and money to pay for the extra miles. I wonder who funded that trip.

That Jiovanna charachter is really something. No emotion whatsover. How old do you think she is?

So many twists and turns :)

Mel

Melanie
12-23-2009, 04:16 AM
Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

ACK - mind spinning. Are you thinking he burned her up? Then he takes the rental car back to the site to make sure he gets rid of the bones/ashes??

Mel

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 06:17 AM
I had the most horrific thought... HE BURNED HER BODY.

This would explain:

* His 'camping trip'. What is the one thing every night-time camping trip needs? A campfire.

* What would you need to make S'mores, like he claimed they made? A campfire.

* His 'frost bitten' hands, or 'wind-burned' hands, or 'chemical-burned' hands?
Probably just burned hands, period. Put your hands too close to a campfire, they become singed. Especially when you have to keep stoking the fire.

* This would also explain the lengthy amount of time he and 'his boys' (who I'm sure slept through the night in the minivan) spent 'camping'. I've read it takes several hours to burn a body beyond recognition.

* It has bothered me, his seeming lack of concern (imo) that her body will be found, and this could explain why. There may not be a body anymore. Just bits of charred bone fragments, in a campfire pit somewhere.

* This could be why their 4 year old thinks they went camping- they actually did. I wonder if the little boy remembers a camp fire burning all night, and most of the morning?

* Many of us believe there is a little bit of truth in every lie a sociopath tells... why did he say he took the boys camping? Because in a way, he did. Why bring up S'mores? To explain the campfire.

Now, I'm wondering about the generator, too. Would the generator run a power-saw? A dismembered body would be easier to handle, and also burn a bit more quickly...

I also wonder if he may have smelled of campfire smoke (or thought he did) when he got back from his camping trip? Maybe he said that about the S'mores to give a reasonable explaination as to why he smelled like smoke. But, then again, what is a camping trip at night without a campfire?

(It's the middle of the nigfht, I'm alone at work, and now I'm scared).

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 06:29 AM
I think Jovanna is trying to help Josh out. She doesn't appear to have passion or concerns for Susan like a real friend would. Maybe Susan sensed that Jovanna had a thing for Josh and that is why she did not confide in her. Jovanna is not a person I'd want to be close to. Her personality is a little 'odd'. She does love the camera and attention. Maybe she is not use to all this attention. This is her moment to shine for Josh. Is Jovanna married? JMO

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 06:33 AM
smartblonde.....your post makes a lot of sense and I truly hope that is not the case. But most likely there was a campfire to convince the boys that went camping. This is all it takes in a kid's mind.....a fire and a night away with daddy.

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 06:43 AM
This takes me back to the "Blue Cap Interview" and something I've been wondering for awhile. Does anyone know if Josh is left or right-handed?

During that interview he was tugging at his hat with his left hand. Even when he pulled down the right side of the cap (it looked awkward to me), he went over with his left hand. Think that would be very strange for someone who is right-handed. Unless they didn't want that hand on camera.

Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

ACK - mind spinning. Are you thinking he burned her up? Then he takes the rental car back to the site to make sure he gets rid of the bones/ashes??

Mel
Of course, now that I've posted 'my' theory, and read through all the posts before it in an effort to catch up, I see these posts!

(Great minds think alike, and all that)...

I seriously think this is what happened. He burned her body on his 'camping trip'.

Surely, law enforcement has thought of this, right?

nervous_nellie
12-23-2009, 07:47 AM
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Burning-Evidence/18$33683


If a murderer is meticulous and smashes the pieces of bone that do not burn, then there will be little chance of developing information about how the victim died. However, most murders are impulsive, and after one or two attempts to burn the body, the perpetrator will probably give up and simply bury the remains. In this case, the forensic anthropologist, upon examining the remains, may be able to determine certain things about what happened to the victim before the fire.


the link is to some info on the burning of bodies. it seems that a simple wood fire would only reach 800c -900c as opposed to an incinerator at 1100c - 1500c. he probably couldnt have burned her up unless he had some way to create the heat that would be required...but like you mentioned, maybe he used the generator for a cutting tool, so if the pieces were small enough maybe the heat wouldnt need to be as high?

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 09:46 AM
I don't know. The thought of him burning her is making me nauseous.
I just want her to be found. Soon.

nervous_nellie
12-23-2009, 09:48 AM
I don't know. The thought of him burning her is making me nauseous.
I just want her to be found. Soon.

yeah, it is pretty bad...:(

burbqueen
12-23-2009, 09:53 AM
I think Jovanna is trying to help Josh out. She doesn't appear to have passion or concerns for Susan like a real friend would. Maybe Susan sensed that Jovanna had a thing for Josh and that is why she did not confide in her. Jovanna is not a person I'd want to be close to. Her personality is a little 'odd'. She does love the camera and attention. Maybe she is not use to all this attention. This is her moment to shine for Josh. Is Jovanna married? JMO

Merry Christmas everyone!!

I told ya'll there was something up with Jovanna :loser: She was waay to quick to defend JP and assist him in his hour of need. What about poor Susan? Jovanna was suppose to be more of her friend, right? I'm not saying that she should have thrown JP under the bus, but at least act like you are concerned for Susan. :furious: She does come across as a bit strange.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 10:10 AM
JoVonna probably is/was married to an abusive man so Josh looks like a saint to her.
I think she looks older than she is, no makeup, no hairstyle, plain clothes etc.
And is she has/had a hard life with an abusive husband the stress would age her fast.
JMOO

passionflower
12-23-2009, 10:14 AM
Many people on comments have described JP comparing him to Scott Peterson (put his wife in water, had a boat and made anchors) and Mark Hacking.............(put his wife in the garbage, no thought process)...........

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 10:25 AM
A cell phone and new notes could provide answers in Susan Powell's disappearance

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (ABC4 NEWS) - A prepaid cell phone Josh Powell purchased at Walmart could provide details as to where Powell went while racking up hundreds of miles in a rental car. A note has also surfaced that was written about a year and a half ago. Susan said if she ended up dead it "wouldn't be suicide".

Tim Petersen, Powell's neighbor tells ABC 4 news that Powell came over to their house on Wednesday evening, just days after Susan disappeared and told them about a new phone he bought and asked for a ride to pick up his minivan. Petersen said, "We asked about Susan but he didn't want to talk about her. He only wanted to talk about his new clothes and phone."

West Valley City Police confirmed they are looking into phone and financial records. However, they didn't confirm exactly who's records they are reviewing. But the cell phone provider could potentially pinpoint Powell's whereabouts during that 24 hour period.

Petersen also says when Powell came to his house he had the worst case of wind burned he'd ever seen. Petersen said they were bright red and he had a bottle of lotion with him and kept applying it on his hands

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/A-cell-phone-and-new-notes-could-provide-answers/n8xTFRQLOkKihW2iYi34wA.cspx

JLMcKenna83
12-23-2009, 10:27 AM
When are people going to learn that pre-paid phones can be traced now? :loser: It's only a matter of time before he starts slipping up.. He'll hang himself soon enough!

burbqueen
12-23-2009, 10:30 AM
A cell phone and new notes could provide answers in Susan Powell's disappearance

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (ABC4 NEWS) - A prepaid cell phone Josh Powell purchased at Walmart could provide details as to where Powell went while racking up hundreds of miles in a rental car. A note has also surfaced that was written about a year and a half ago. Susan said if she ended up dead it "wouldn't be suicide".

Tim Petersen, Powell's neighbor tells ABC 4 news that Powell came over to their house on Wednesday evening, just days after Susan disappeared and told them about a new phone he bought and asked for a ride to pick up his minivan. Petersen said, "We asked about Susan but he didn't want to talk about her. He only wanted to talk about his new clothes and phone."

West Valley City Police confirmed they are looking into phone and financial records. However, they didn't confirm exactly who's records they are reviewing. But the cell phone provider could potentially pinpoint Powell's whereabouts during that 24 hour period.

Petersen also says when Powell came to his house he had the worst case of wind burned he'd ever seen. Petersen said they were bright red and he had a bottle of lotion with him and kept applying it on his hands

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/A-cell-phone-and-new-notes-could-provide-answers/n8xTFRQLOkKihW2iYi34wA.cspx


WOW! I love technology! Time to use the cellphone to pin point JP's movements. good.

Please lord, why in the world would SP write that note that if she came up dead it wouldnt be suicide??!?! really???? That is frustrating. If you feel your husband is even capable of killing you why would you stay?? :waitasec:

Also, can someone tell me what is wind burn??? Never heard that before, but then again I dont live in a cold state and know any that have had it. What does it do? Is it that severe? Would JP have to be outside for a long period of time to get it?

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Interesting view of this case! And this blogger caught onto how Jovanna's take on the marriage is different from Susan's other friends'.

<snip>

'Real' Reality TV-Josh Powell, You Can`t Ever Get Away!

There have been conflicting accounts about the nature of the Powell`s marriage. This conundrum emerged on Jane Velez-Mitchell`s show Issues last night. Jane interviewed Jovanna Owings for a second time, and Jovanna said things were going smoothly. Jovanna had shared a dinner of pancakes (cooked by Josh) on the crucial night of December 6th. She says they had pleasant conversation and that Josh was compassionate towards Susan.

In contrast, Rachel Marini, a close friend of Susan, has painted a very different portrait. Rachel told MSNBC that things began to deteriorate when the Powells moved from Washington to Utah. The Powells were having massive financial problems, racking up $200,000 in debt from credit cards, student loans and furniture purchases.

....

I believe that Josh will harden up, under the tutelage of his father, Steven Powell. I don`t think he`ll break down. He`s a sociopath. I could tell that from the `navy blue cap` interview. He says in that brief interview (on December 10th-a correction) that "she`s somewhere." Like I know where she is, and you won`t ever know, stupid!

Every excruciating detail of this case will be played out on a public platform. That platform is the internet. This is `Real` Reality TV. Everything else pales in comparison. Josh, you just can`t get away from the media. For how long? That`s for the remainder of your living days!


more here

http://thesop.org/opinion/2009/12/23/real-reality-tvjosh-powell-you-cant-ever-get-away

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 10:31 AM
E-mails from Susan Powell told of marriage struggles
Friends of Susan Powell turn over correspondence from 2008 to W.V. police


Published: Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 10:52 p.m. MST

WEST VALLEY CITY — E-mails sent last year by Susan Powell to friends told of marriage struggles between her and her husband to the point that she seemed to be in fear of him.

Several of her friends, who wished to remain anonymous, confirmed to the Deseret News that they had turned over to police e-mails that she sent them in June and July of 2008, the point when all friends agreed the Powells' marriage was at its worst.

One friend confirmed that in one of the e-mails, Susan Powell said she was afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys, divorce her or worse.

The friend said Susan Powell had talked to her one day about something she had written and left in her desk at work.

"She had mentioned about writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide. She said it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone," the friend said.

"I didn't really know the context in which she was talking. I didn't even know what to say to that."

The friend said that was the only time Susan Powell brought up that topic

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-from-Susan-Powell-told-of-marriage-struggles.html

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 10:37 AM
wind⋅burn  /ˈwɪndˌbɜrn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [wind-burn] Show IPA

–noun an inflammation of the skin, esp. that of the face and hands, caused by overexposure to the wind.

wind·burn (wĭnd'bûrn')
n. An irritation or chafing of the skin caused by long exposure to the wind.
wind'burned' adj.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/windburn

oh_gal
12-23-2009, 10:41 AM
Merry Christmas everyone!!

I told ya'll there was something up with Jovanna :loser: She was waay to quick to defend JP and assist him in his hour of need. What about poor Susan? Jovanna was suppose to be more of her friend, right? I'm not saying that she should have thrown JP under the bus, but at least act like you are concerned for Susan. :furious: She does come across as a bit strange.

She's got a thing for him.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 10:42 AM
WOW! I love technology! Time to use the cellphone to pin point JP's movements. good.

Please lord, why in the world would SP write that note that if she came up dead it wouldnt be suicide??!?! really???? That is frustrating. If you feel your husband is even capable of killing you why would you stay?? :waitasec:

Also, can someone tell me what is wind burn??? Never heard that before, but then again I dont live in a cold state and know any that have had it. What does it do? Is it that severe? Would JP have to be outside for a long period of time to get it?

I've had windburn on my face & it hurts! It just happened to be a cold dry day & the wind was blowing hard -- it only took about 10 minutes w/the wind blowing in my face....it hurts like a sunburn -- ouch!! And it wasn't that severe yet it hurt like the dickens.

That's one reason I'm still struggling w/ Josh's face not looking as bad as his hands....he was either wearing protection for his face (like a balaclava) or his hands aren't actually windburned.

"Despite its name, windburn is actually a skin irritation. But it looks like a burn, because your skin appears red and slightly swollen on some exposed areas of your body. "Wind causes the loss of the oil layer on your skin," explains Norman Levine, M.D., chief of dermatology at the University, of Arizona College of Medicine Health Sciences Center in Tucson. "And when your skin dries out excessively, you get an irritation that looks and feels like a real burn. To reverse the effect of windburn, you need to add that oil layer back to your skin."


http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Bookshelf/Books/48/228.cfm

sniperacer
12-23-2009, 10:46 AM
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Burning-Evidence/18$33683


If a murderer is meticulous and smashes the pieces of bone that do not burn, then there will be little chance of developing information about how the victim died. However, most murders are impulsive, and after one or two attempts to burn the body, the perpetrator will probably give up and simply bury the remains. In this case, the forensic anthropologist, upon examining the remains, may be able to determine certain things about what happened to the victim before the fire.


the link is to some info on the burning of bodies. it seems that a simple wood fire would only reach 800c -900c as opposed to an incinerator at 1100c - 1500c. he probably couldnt have burned her up unless he had some way to create the heat that would be required...but like you mentioned, maybe he used the generator for a cutting tool, so if the pieces were small enough maybe the heat wouldnt need to be as high?

Yep.

As a long time campfire expert and owner of two young campfire pyromaniacs, I can say it would be extremely difficult (impossible) to fully burn a body (even close) to ash in a campfire.

On the other hand, there are "gazillions" of places to dump, hide, or bury a body in Utah.

I choose the latter.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 10:51 AM
All he could talk about was buying a cell phone and new clothes.
and NOT his missing wife of 8 years!

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 10:56 AM
This is pretty much a recap, has a video of profiler Pat Brown talking about Josh, but you should read the comment left by: sean56v December 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST in the comment section...Things that make you go hmmmm I wonder who that person is:

************************************************** **********************************

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/23/earlyshow/main6013505.shtml

passionflower
12-23-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't think he burnt her body either, he would need wood, gasoline etc.
It would take to long and someone might see the smoke.
I think he just dumped her somewhere in the wilderness away from people.
He is hoping that there will be nothing left if he buys time due to the wild life in the area.
Poor Susan what she endured just to live daily with him!

passionflower
12-23-2009, 11:03 AM
This is pretty much a recap, has a video of profiler Pat Brown talking about Josh, but you should read the comment left by: sean56v December 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST in the comment section...Things that make you go hmmmm I wonder who that person is:

************************************************** **********************************

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/23/earlyshow/main6013505.shtml

WOW, if this is true, someone BEST come through for Susan!!!
Maybe that is when dad bought her a phone of her own!
I hop someone has a photo etc!!!
Pray everyone starts telling the TRUTH about Josh!!!
IMO, Susan was so abused ...............

Dal Gal
12-23-2009, 11:03 AM
This is pretty much a recap, has a video of profiler Pat Brown talking about Josh, but you should read the comment left by: sean56v December 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST in the comment section...Things that make you go hmmmm I wonder who that person is:

************************************************** **********************************

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/23/earlyshow/main6013505.shtml

Possibly someone making the rounds on the comment boards this morning. A comment on a different story from re: Skippy 8:28am Dec. 23 has an interesting observation of Joshy's dad.

http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comments/705353538/Mystery-haunts-Susan-Powells-friend.html

sniperacer
12-23-2009, 11:05 AM
When are people going to learn that pre-paid phones can be traced now? :loser: It's only a matter of time before he starts slipping up.. He'll hang himself soon enough!

Couple of points. ANY phone can be traced when ON. The trick about pre-paid cell phone is you do not know who they belong too - unless paid for by credit card. If you buy the phone with cash there is NO way to associate a phone with a person, even though the phone can be traced.

Wind burn versus frostbite: Wind burn affects more sensitive skin than hand skin. Thus, hands rarely are wind burnt. Frostbite can be quick on bare hands. For example, after 20 minutes bare hands in the snow will start damage. As for JP, I'll go with frostbite hands.

CCup
12-23-2009, 11:09 AM
A couple things:

The thing that makes the most sense to me, considering the area, is a deserted mine shaft. They are all over - there are literally thousands of them here. If he had done some exploring on his camping expeditions, and he had been planning something for awhile, I would think he would have been able to find a place that would be an almost perfect hiding place.

snipped and BBM

So your comment totally made me think of geocaching. For those that don't know geocaching is is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers anywhere in the world. If Josh was known to go camping frequently and in such remote locations, I would think he would have a handheld GPS or at least one in his car. If he had been planning this for a while there is a good possibility he could have searched out places to dump her body. Is it possible that Josh had a GPS that he saved certain campsites or places he has explored into?

I realize this may seem a bit out there, but there are groups of "geocachers" that have Murdery Mystery Events. THe first time I heard of this I thought oh know some sick serial killer is gonna use this as their calling card.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 11:10 AM
I read that Josh & Susan were married in the Portland Temple...From what I've read, a couple (and those attending) must have a temple recommend. ( http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/weddings/ )

So if Josh had to have a temple recommend for a temple wedding did he lose it?

fran
12-23-2009, 11:22 AM
I believe that Josh's hand condition may have been more from direct exposure to cold, rather than just wind-burn. He may have been handling snow (moving it, digging).

When Josh went on the alleged over-night camping trip with the boys, his time to actually hide the body may have been limited (because he couldn't leave the boys alone for too long). I believe he may have just thought if he placed her far enough away, they wouldn't find her.

When he was dumb-struck (imo) when he returned and found out Susan's disappearance had already been reported to LE and they started asking tough questions about where he'd been, he realized that if she was found he would be the first person they look at. After he left his kids at his sis' house, I believe he went back to the scene and either tried to bury her or as others have said, put her in a mine or cave. I say tried to bury her, because I'm not sure he would have been able to find an area where the ground wasn't already frozen. Whatever, I believe he did go back to CONCEAL the body.

I only hope he gets a conscience and comes forward and tells LE where she is. :(

JMHO
fran

PS..........I bet Josh is in shock since he's learned that Susan left written notes at her work. I bet he never saw that coming! If anything, imo, IF he does turn himself in, it will be because of the notes and he realizes there's no way he's going to get away with this.:mad: fran

gliving
12-23-2009, 11:30 AM
Yep.

As a long time campfire expert and owner of two young campfire pyromaniacs, I can say it would be extremely difficult (impossible) to fully burn a body (even close) to ash in a campfire.

On the other hand, there are "gazillions" of places to dump, hide, or bury a body in Utah.

I choose the latter.

Me too sniperacer. Remember it was raining/snowing that night so things would be wet.

I'm just catching up after being gone a day. Isn't Jovanna a widow or single lady with children?

fran
12-23-2009, 11:31 AM
I have to tell you that this case really has me. What I find disturbing is that their religion seems to be part of the central reason for their marriage problems, that and his controlling ways.

I have three single 20 something daughters. Two of them recently broke up with their long-time b/fs.(both just a few days before Thanksgiving) One of them, the reason for the break-up was religion. Wow! Coincidence and scary to me.

I really didn't think the religion thing should be that big of a deal. I was raised in a family where my dad didn't attend church but my siblings and I attended church with my mom. It was never a problem for us.

My daughter that broke up with her b/f because of religion was because it is a big deal to her and she can't see a real relationship unless the SO feels the same way. It's not that he didn't try, he honestly did. But he just can't get into it like her. Fortunately, they're both mature and level headed enough to realize that they can still remain friends. Of course she had a little difficulty at first and needed a complete break from him for a couple of weeks, but they're now talking and seeing each other when they get together with their mutual friends.

I guess we learn something new with each case.

JMHO
fran

fran
12-23-2009, 11:36 AM
snipped and BBM

So your comment totally made me think of geocaching. For those that don't know geocaching is is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers anywhere in the world. If Josh was known to go camping frequently and in such remote locations, I would think he would have a handheld GPS or at least one in his car. If he had been planning this for a while there is a good possibility he could have searched out places to dump her body. Is it possible that Josh had a GPS that he saved certain campsites or places he has explored into?

I realize this may seem a bit out there, but there are groups of "geocachers" that have Murdery Mystery Events. THe first time I heard of this I thought oh know some sick serial killer is gonna use this as their calling card.


Actually, many of us here at Websleuths studied the geocaching when we were looking into the Groene murders in Idaho.

I can't recall the exact reason we thought the perp may have been doing it, but he did go off into far away places. He may have had some websites cached on his computer or something.

Just, fwiw,
fran

Melanie
12-23-2009, 11:39 AM
smartblonde.....your post makes a lot of sense and I truly hope that is not the case. But most likely there was a campfire to convince the boys that went camping. This is all it takes in a kid's mind.....a fire and a night away with daddy.

Thinking out loud here. If he left at 12:30 AM; got wherever he went a couple hours later -- the children would most definitely be asleep. If mom was in the van - where was she. If already dead, the cadaver dogs should have picked up the smell. If she was poisoned, he would have to kill her first (before turning her into a s'more). I don't know - I'm straying away from the fire theory.

I'd like to know he transported her to and fro. Was she dead in the car? Did he just drop her off in the woods somewhere hoping she'd succumb to the elements? It would make sense for him to take the rental car back to the site and try to bury her then.

Whatever his plan was, I think we will see that he screwed up badly!

Mel

MOOOOOOOOOOO

sniperacer
12-23-2009, 11:43 AM
snipped and BBM

So your comment totally made me think of geocaching. For those that don't know geocaching is is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers anywhere in the world. If Josh was known to go camping frequently and in such remote locations, I would think he would have a handheld GPS or at least one in his car. If he had been planning this for a while there is a good possibility he could have searched out places to dump her body. Is it possible that Josh had a GPS that he saved certain campsites or places he has explored into?

I realize this may seem a bit out there, but there are groups of "geocachers" that have Murdery Mystery Events. THe first time I heard of this I thought oh know some sick serial killer is gonna use this as their calling card.

I am a geocacher. On one hand, the geocach web site would be a great place too go to find cave and mine locations. Yet these would be known to other cachers. And geocach locations are heavily traveled.

If (a huge IF) he had a handheld GPS, it would be very dumb to mark a murdered body location with a waypoint. But all GPS's, when on, usually tracks it's movement (internal data loop) and the user can choose to save or not save GPS tracks.

Same as a rental car company GPS. It sounds like the rental company chose not to save the GPS tracking data? BUT, IF (again a big IF) LE got to the car GPS quick enough, the temporary internal track could be recovered. But as I said, the data usually loops and will be over-written as time / travel goes on.

TMI obout GPS's?

fran
12-23-2009, 11:52 AM
This is pretty much a recap, has a video of profiler Pat Brown talking about Josh, but you should read the comment left by: sean56v December 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST in the comment section...Things that make you go hmmmm I wonder who that person is:

************************************************** **********************************

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/23/earlyshow/main6013505.shtml

The comment was gone when I checked.

fran

fran
12-23-2009, 11:54 AM
All he could talk about was buying a cell phone and new clothes.
and NOT his missing wife of 8 years!

This is why so many people have compared him to Scott Peterson. He seems to have a complete disconnect to reality.

I think Pat Brown said it best. "He doesn't know how he's supposed to act."

JMHO
fran

burbqueen
12-23-2009, 11:58 AM
I have to tell you that this case really has me. What I find disturbing is that their religion seems to be part of the central reason for their marriage problems, that and his controlling ways.

I have three single 20 something daughters. Two of them recently broke up with their long-time b/fs.(both just a few days before Thanksgiving) One of them, the reason for the break-up was religion. Wow! Coincidence and scary to me.

I really didn't think the religion thing should be that big of a deal. I was raised in a family where my dad didn't attend church but my siblings and I attended church with my mom. It was never a problem for us.

My daughter that broke up with her b/f because of religion was because it is a big deal to her and she can't see a real relationship unless the SO feels the same way. It's not that he didn't try, he honestly did. But he just can't get into it like her. Fortunately, they're both mature and level headed enough to realize that they can still remain friends. Of course she had a little difficulty at first and needed a complete break from him for a couple of weeks, but they're now talking and seeing each other when they get together with their mutual friends.

I guess we learn something new with each case.

JMHO
fran

OMG Fran, thank you so much!!!

That's what I've been saying all along. Not trying to throw someones religion under the bus at all. But many have shot me down and try to dismiss the idea that religion played a part cause it makes them feel uncomfortable for some reason. This is not a condemnation of religion, just an observation.

The issue is that for various religions you cannot have a divided household. For catholics, baptist, lutherans, methodist etc. you can can just one parent going to church and the other not that interested. Mom or dad takes the kiddies to church faithfully while the other parent stays home.

That is typical in most mainstream religions, but I know for a fact that in various sects that is a huge issue when your spouse strays away from the faith. It can truely break up a marriage when you feel abandoned in the faith so to speak. Also, the kids may suffer too. One parent wants them to be raised in the church and the other may not. So what do you do? That's why a divided household sometimes cannot stand. I know as a JW it can be grounds for divorce and your fellow members feel sorry for you when a spouse stops coming to meetings.

Either way poor Susan I believe was over her head with JP and probably knew it. She was trying to get out IMO, but something happened.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 12:05 PM
Thinking out loud here. If he left at 12:30 AM; got wherever he went a couple hours later -- the children would most definitely be asleep. If mom was in the van - where was she. If already dead, the cadaver dogs should have picked up the smell. If she was poisoned, he would have to kill her first (before turning her into a s'more). I don't know - I'm straying away from the fire theory.

I'd like to know he transported her to and fro. Was she dead in the car? Did he just drop her off in the woods somewhere hoping she'd succumb to the elements? It would make sense for him to take the rental car back to the site and try to bury her then.

Whatever his plan was, I think we will see that he screwed up badly!

Mel

MOOOOOOOOOOO

I know wife-killers have hauled their bodies for miles before, but it's really not that common from the cases I've read....most bodies are found close to home....I can't see Joshy wanting to drive a body for hundreds of miles.

What if he went somewhere close during the 5-ish til 8:30pm timeframe to prepare a place for the body - or scout it out to be sure it would be safe to take one to that place? (for some reason I believe it's related to water...IDK why.) He could have gotten the windburn/frostbite at this time doing his 'prep work'.

Then he returns to the house around 8:30, puts the kids to bed, waits til they are sleeping (and maybe even Susan is sleeping) and does the dirty deed.

He is very nervous & in his haste to lock or unlock the van, he hits the wrong button & the alarm sounds. Puts Susan in the back, goes back into the house to get the sleeping boys, one at a time, making sure he doesn't wake them.

He drives off into the nite w/ the boys still asleep, takes Susan to the site he picked out earlier, and his hands get even more damaged.....then he drives away still nervous about what he's done....he drives & drives & drives -- no place in particular....pulls over to sleep in an isolated area & when the boys wake them up he tells them they are camping.

JMOOOC as I've been thinking of scenarios that would explain him leaving the house 2x, putting the body close to him, and explain being gone for 17 hours.

swa
12-23-2009, 12:06 PM
Wow . . . haven't seen this story before . . . .

1. Wife is Missing
2. Husband Shows No Interest in Finding Her
3. Husband's Family has no clue why HE would be considered a suspect
4. Wife's friends start relaying information about her desire to leave the marriage.

When are these fools going to realize that maybe it's just a better idea to go ahead and get a divorce?

Dal Gal
12-23-2009, 12:07 PM
The comment was gone when I checked.

fran

Fran go to the next page, page 8. At 7:38 someone snipped the original into their comment.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 12:12 PM
FWIW - there's a comment here that says, to paraphrase, that Josh is indeed a chip off the ol' block


8:28 a.m. Dec. 23, 2009
http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comments/705353538/Mystery-haunts-Susan-Powells-friend.html

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 12:16 PM
Another thought -- 1st degree burns from being too close to a fire would look similar to windburn.

I had the most horrific thought... HE BURNED HER BODY.

This would explain:

* His 'camping trip'. What is the one thing every night-time camping trip needs? A campfire.

* What would you need to make S'mores, like he claimed they made? A campfire.

* His 'frost bitten' hands, or 'wind-burned' hands, or 'chemical-burned' hands?
Probably just burned hands, period. Put your hands too close to a campfire, they become singed. Especially when you have to keep stoking the fire.

* This would also explain the lengthy amount of time he and 'his boys' (who I'm sure slept through the night in the minivan) spent 'camping'. I've read it takes several hours to burn a body beyond recognition.

* It has bothered me, his seeming lack of concern (imo) that her body will be found, and this could explain why. There may not be a body anymore. Just bits of charred bone fragments, in a campfire pit somewhere.

* This could be why their 4 year old thinks they went camping- they actually did. I wonder if the little boy remembers a camp fire burning all night, and most of the morning?

* Many of us believe there is a little bit of truth in every lie a sociopath tells... why did he say he took the boys camping? Because in a way, he did. Why bring up S'mores? To explain the campfire.

Now, I'm wondering about the generator, too. Would the generator run a power-saw? A dismembered body would be easier to handle, and also burn a bit more quickly...

I also wonder if he may have smelled of campfire smoke (or thought he did) when he got back from his camping trip? Maybe he said that about the S'mores to give a reasonable explaination as to why he smelled like smoke. But, then again, what is a camping trip at night without a campfire?

(It's the middle of the nigfht, I'm alone at work, and now I'm scared).

omg ! ! ! the creep factor is just off the chart already this am.. I mean can ya wait til I've finished my first cup of coffee this is just over the top geez... http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/chromeserpent/WTHsmiley.gif if only it were some ghoulish movie and not actually a morbid possibility in real life :(

:parrot:

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 12:20 PM
<snip>

Former FBI Profiler Cliff Van Zandt Finds Too Many Oddities In Josh Powell's Behavior, Unexplained Miles On Powell's Rental Car

Headlining a gaggle of Utah stories published on December 22nd, 2009 about the case of missing West Valley City woman Susan Powell is a report from KSL Channel 5 that former FBI profiler Cliff Van Zandt has weighed in. On the Today show, Van Zandt said this case reminds him of two other missing women cases, one of which is that of the wife of former police officer Drew Peterson. Van Zandt said Josh's behavior is the opposite of what he would expect from a husband whose wife is missing, and the issue of the rental car also begs more questions.

"We know, of course, he's now the primary caretaker of two young children, but one would think most of his activities would be centered around the house or trying to help law enforcement," Van Zandt said. "If that vehicle's been driven hundreds of miles, where might he have gone? And could that have anything to do with his wife's disappearance?"



more here (but not much else we haven't heard)

http://voice-of-deseret.blogspot.com/2009/12/former-fbi-profiler-cliff-van-zandt.html

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 12:39 PM
I have to tell you that this case really has me. What I find disturbing is that their religion seems to be part of the central reason for their marriage problems, that and his controlling ways.

I have three single 20 something daughters. Two of them recently broke up with their long-time b/fs.(both just a few days before Thanksgiving) One of them, the reason for the break-up was religion. Wow! Coincidence and scary to me.

I really didn't think the religion thing should be that big of a deal. I was raised in a family where my dad didn't attend church but my siblings and I attended church with my mom. It was never a problem for us.

My daughter that broke up with her b/f because of religion was because it is a big deal to her and she can't see a real relationship unless the SO feels the same way. It's not that he didn't try, he honestly did. But he just can't get into it like her. Fortunately, they're both mature and level headed enough to realize that they can still remain friends. Of course she had a little difficulty at first and needed a complete break from him for a couple of weeks, but they're now talking and seeing each other when they get together with their mutual friends.

I guess we learn something new with each case.

JMHO
fran

OMG Fran, thank you so much!!!

That's what I've been saying all along. Not trying to throw someones religion under the bus at all. But many have shot me down and try to dismiss the idea that religion played a part cause it makes them feel uncomfortable for some reason. This is not a condemnation of religion, just an observation.

The issue is that for various religions you cannot have a divided household. For catholics, baptist, lutherans, methodist etc. you can can just one parent going to church and the other not that interested. Mom or dad takes the kiddies to church faithfully while the other parent stays home.

That is typical in most mainstream religions, but I know for a fact that in various sects that is a huge issue when your spouse strays away from the faith. It can truely break up a marriage when you feel abandoned in the faith so to speak. Also, the kids may suffer too. One parent wants them to be raised in the church and the other may not. So what do you do? That's why a divided household sometimes cannot stand. I know as a JW it can be grounds for divorce and your fellow members feel sorry for you when a spouse stops coming to meetings.

Either way poor Susan I believe was over her head with JP and probably knew it. She was trying to get out IMO, but something happened.

Heavy, deep bird sigh... just wanna say it's known, among Christian believers anyway, as being unequally yoked but I truly believe the reason Susan became a victim of her husband has far less to do w the particular denominational differences or even doctrines and IMO everything to do w pathology, overall mental health ie personality disorder, authenticity and level of commitment to one's values and beliefs, and a host of other things including whether or not there is agreement w/in the marriage. Wherever two people are in agreement--re w/e lifestyle, values, principles and priorities they genuinely accept etc--they stand a good chance of staying together and avoiding continual conflicts. And where there is deception there is sure to be continual conflict.

Hoping everyone can kinda stay focused on Susan today--on the fact that she married a very unbalanced, likely NPD (and probably sociopathic) shell of a man who's functioned on a superficial level, while concealing some extremely UNhealthy, dark parts that appear to stem from some disturbing generational patterns...which has little to do w "religious" differences IMO, and far more to do w he is one twisted SOB. Sorry please don't throw anything, just trying to stay focused here. JMO

:computer:

:parrot:

seattle_slew
12-23-2009, 12:47 PM
I believe Josh did not go into any high country. High country is anything East of I-15. I lived in SLC for 24 years and know the terrain and the drivability factor in the Winter.

He would have been concerned about getting stuck on mud or ice and snow in his van. I hope they are asking friends and church members where they may have gone in the past on church outings etc. Or even reviewed mapquest etc type of searches he may have done on various computers he had access to.

He may have gone to areas out by Delta or even North by the Golden Spike National park. It's very isolated there but still accessible. And there are many turn offs by the road where he could have moved her for a distance from the road.

I have been lurking on this site for some time since this story breaks my heart to hear about. I am only 30 minutes from where he is now in Puyallup.

My parents broke up over Mormon vs Greek orthodox differences while I lived in Utah. So I understand the motivations in this situation. I saw it many times in the years I lived in SLC, for the early 60s to the 80s. I also hope the counseling that has been discussed was more than just the lay counselors in the Church. Typically if someone like this couple didn't have money, they would tend to stay in the church counseling venue. Those counselors are by no means unbiased in their take on these type of situations. The Church is male centered and if nothing appeared to be life threatening, my opinion is, they would have counseled her to "pray and fast" to seek the right answer.

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 01:02 PM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220/writehisword/Christmas%202/WELCOME.gif

Welcome to WS, Seattle :wave: we're neighbors :)

:parrot:

nervous_nellie
12-23-2009, 01:02 PM
I read that Josh & Susan were married in the Portland Temple...From what I've read, a couple (and those attending) must have a temple recommend. ( http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/weddings/ )

So if Josh had to have a temple recommend for a temple wedding did he lose it?


when my bil was married in the temple none of the people that were invited were allowed to see the wedding we had to wait in the waiting area. i am not lds but my husbands family is. and all of the other family members except me are lds and they couldnt go in either, but iirc the grooms father had lost his temple privileges too...thats all i know about that :) wasnt one of susans requirements that he regain his temple pass? so i would think that you can earn it back, tho i have no idea how...

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 01:10 PM
I read that Josh & Susan were married in the Portland Temple...From what I've read, a couple (and those attending) must have a temple recommend. ( http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/weddings/ )

So if Josh had to have a temple recommend for a temple wedding did he lose it?

That's right. He would have had to have one to get married there. I haven't read that he'd lost it, but I guess it's likely. Church attendance is one of the requirements for keeping it.

Dal Gal
12-23-2009, 01:14 PM
That's right. He would have had to have one to get married there. I haven't read that he'd lost it, but I guess it's likely. Church attendance is one of the requirements for keeping it.

If I'm not mistaken (I'm not Mormon), isn't tithing 10% of your income another requirement? That couldn't have been easy, given their financial situation.

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 01:20 PM
If I'm not mistaken (I'm not Mormon), isn't tithing 10% of your income another requirement? That couldn't have been easy, given their financial situation.

You're not mistaken - that's a requirement.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 01:22 PM
That's right. He would have had to have one to get married there. I haven't read that he'd lost it, but I guess it's likely. Church attendance is one of the requirements for keeping it.

Supposedly, getting his temple recommend was required by Susan -- that makes me think he 'lost it':

Petersen says, “By the end of the year, he needed to be going to church full time, and by their anniversary, he needed to have his temple recommend.” Peteresen says Susan took those goals very seriously. He says, “If he wasn't there, that she was going to divorce him and take the house and the kids.”

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Friends-say-Susan-Powell-was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx

Another question -- if he had it to get married in the Temple, how would he lose it?


ETA -- can someone lose their temple recommend if they stop going? NM-- I see DomCasual answered that....are there other things that would cause someone to lose it?

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 01:30 PM
Cell Phone Notes Could Provide Answers

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC4 News) - A prepaid cell phone Josh Powell purchased at Walmart could provide details as to where Powell went while racking up hundreds of miles in a rental car. A note has also surfaced that was written about a year and a half ago. Susan said if she ended up dead it "wouldn't be suicide".

Tim Petersen, Powell's neighbor tells ABC 4 news that Powell came over to their house on Wednesday evening, just days after Susan disappeared and told them about a new phone he bought and asked for a ride to pick up his minivan. Petersen said, "We asked about Susan but he didn't want to talk about her. He only wanted to talk about his new clothes and phone."

West Valley City Police confirmed they are looking into phone and financial records. However, they didn't confirm exactly who's records they are reviewing. But the cell phone provider could potentially pinpoint Powell's whereabouts during that 24 hour period.

(full article at link)

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Cell-phone-notes-could-provide-answers-into-Susan/n8xTFRQLOkKihW2iYi34wA.cspx

http://www.examiner.com/x-22460-Seattle-Family-Examiner~y2009m12d23-Susan-Powell-update-Prepaid-cell-phone-Joshua-Powell-purchased-at-Walmart-could-provide-details

:parrot:

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 01:32 PM
Still praying and hoping against hope that cell phone records will lead LE to Susan...:crossfingers: :prayer:

:parrot:

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 01:35 PM
Supposedly, getting his temple recommend was required by Susan -- that makes me think he 'lost it':

Petersen says, “By the end of the year, he needed to be going to church full time, and by their anniversary, he needed to have his temple recommend.” Peteresen says Susan took those goals very seriously. He says, “If he wasn't there, that she was going to divorce him and take the house and the kids.”

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Friends-say-Susan-Powell-was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx

Another question -- if he had it to get married in the Temple, how would he lose it?


ETA -- can someone lose their temple recommend if they stop going? NM-- I see DomCasual answered that....are there other things that would cause someone to lose it?

Every two years, your temple recommend expires. To renew it, you have interviews with a bishop (lay minister of a ward - about 500 - 600 members) and a stake president (lay minister over approximately 5-8 wards). Those interviews are scripted with about ten questions. Are you chaste? Are you honest? Do you attend church? Do you pay tithing? You answer on the honor system - nobody really checks to see if you're telling the truth.

I hadn't seen the quote from the neighbor, but that makes sense. His temple recommend probably expired, and he just knew he wouldn't be able to get it renewed.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 01:40 PM
When is their anniversary? That seemed to be his deadline!

CCup
12-23-2009, 01:45 PM
Me too sniperacer. Remember it was raining/snowing that night so things would be wet.

I'm just catching up after being gone a day. Isn't Jovanna a widow or single lady with children?

According to her facebook page, she is married.

Dal Gal
12-23-2009, 01:46 PM
I just read an interesting message board on a site for ex-Mormons. With apologies to you active Mormons, my intention isn't to spread propoganda from disgruntled former members. However, the very requirements for temple recommendation are listed throughout:

Mormons who wish to attend Mormon temples must pass a two stage worthiness interview with male, local leaders that involves acknowledging the authority of local and general Mormon leaders, and answering personal questions related to matters of belief and behavior. Here are a few of the questions:

• Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?;
• Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?;
• Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?;
• Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?;
• Do you live the law of chastity?;
• Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?;
• Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?;
• Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?;
• Are you a full-tithe payer?;
• Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?;
• Do you wear the garment [temple underwear] both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

A “temple recommend” or permit to enter the temple will only be issued if these questions are answered to the satisfaction of the Mormon leaders who conduct the two separate interviews required in this regard. As I write this, I recall for the first time in many years the “Alice down the rabbit hole” experience it initially was for me to ask these questions of the adult members of the Mormon congregation over which I presided as Bishop. But, it is amazing what we can come to regard as “normal” after we have done it for a while.

To keep a continuous temple recommend this process must be repeated at least ever other year. Similarly invasive interviews are conducted every six months with teenagers between the ages of 12 and 18 for the purpose of monitoring their "worthiness". Parents are encouraged to conduct the same kind of interviews with the children. The effect of such regular acknowledgment of the one's personal submission to Mormon authority is in my view a large part of what makes Mormons as uncritically submissive to authority of many types as they are.

See more at http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon355.htm

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 01:58 PM
I believe that Josh's hand condition may have been more from direct exposure to cold, rather than just wind-burn. He may have been handling snow (moving it, digging).

When Josh went on the alleged over-night camping trip with the boys, his time to actually hide the body may have been limited (because he couldn't leave the boys alone for too long). I believe he may have just thought if he placed her far enough away, they wouldn't find her.

When he was dumb-struck (imo) when he returned and found out Susan's disappearance had already been reported to LE and they started asking tough questions about where he'd been, he realized that if she was found he would be the first person they look at. After he left his kids at his sis' house, I believe he went back to the scene and either tried to bury her or as others have said, put her in a mine or cave. I say tried to bury her, because I'm not sure he would have been able to find an area where the ground wasn't already frozen. Whatever, I believe he did go back to CONCEAL the body.

I only hope he gets a conscience and comes forward and tells LE where she is. :(

JMHO
fran

PS..........I bet Josh is in shock since he's learned that Susan left written notes at her work. I bet he never saw that coming! If anything, imo, IF he does turn himself in, it will be because of the notes and he realizes there's no way he's going to get away with this.:mad: fran
post of the day!!!

I agree with everything you said! I also note how quickly he rented a car...

"We're aware that a car was rented," said Capt. Tom McLachlan. "That would have been Monday evening the seventh. That's after he returned from his camping trip." http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14051696

and from the airport! hmmm.. if he had the car for 24 hours and rented it the evening/night he got home from camping that is HINKY!!! I am sure he went back to her body to continue hiding it/clean up the scene.. as there was no more cleaning up he could do at home as LE was all over it!

The more I learn about this guy the more I want to just deck him!!!! Seriously!!!!!

Burning question: who took him to the airport to rent the car? I would love to know this!

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 02:02 PM
According to her facebook page, she is married.

I kind of laugh at the Jovanna speculation. I see her as just a motherly woman who was trying to be helpful. She seems to have a bit of a meddlesome quality to her, obviously. And she definitely likes the attention she's getting from the media. But I don't get the sense she's in any way implicit in Susan's disappearance.

She reminds me of a lady I knew a few years back. She even looks a lot like her. I loved this lady - she was like a grandmother to my kids. My brother-in-law died, and left a widow and three small kids. This lady completely took them under her wing for a few years. She was incredibly meddlesome, but she really had a good heart. And the only way I knew her was through business.

Dal Gal
12-23-2009, 02:14 PM
When is their anniversary? That seemed to be his deadline!

According to the biography of Susan that Shelby Gifford provided at the family presser, they were married April 6, 2001 at LDS Portland Temple. So it was upcoming but not right around the corner. However, by not attending church with his family, Susan certainly would have seen that Josh wasn't making the efforts that she expected from him. JMO.

lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 02:17 PM
So Josh rented the car Monday evening. Wife missing, police everywhere, and you're worried about transportation? Wouldn't want to stay home by the phone. Sister, BIL, and other friends would have gladly helped with that. Unless you needed to be ALONE.

He can easily explain that away though by saying that he was looking for Susan.
Oh wait, no he can't. As he has already stated in interviews "I wouldn't know where to begin looking."

I feel that Susan is not all that far away. He had 2 sleeping kids in the car. While the motion of cars put them to sleep, stops and bumpy roads can also wake them up. He would want to make sure that Susan was out of the van long before time for kids to wake.

omegagal
12-23-2009, 02:21 PM
This takes me back to the "Blue Cap Interview" and something I've been wondering for awhile. Does anyone know if Josh is left or right-handed?

During that interview he was tugging at his hat with his left hand. Even when he pulled down the right side of the cap (it looked awkward to me), he went over with his left hand. Think that would be very strange for someone who is right-handed. Unless they didn't want that hand on camera.
I've seen him use his right hand. Also in the church breakfast photo, camera's in the right hand.

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 02:25 PM
According to the biography of Susan that Shelby Gifford provided at the family presser, they were married April 6, 2001 at LDS Portland Temple. So it was upcoming but not right around the corner. However, by not attending church with his family, Susan certainly would have seen that Josh wasn't making the efforts that she expected from him. JMO.

That seems pretty spot-on. He doesn't go to church. She gets angry and rides him about it, saying he's not keeping his promise to her. They get in a big argument that is interrupted by Jovanna coming by to help with the crochet. He broods over it, and decides to get back at her. He's been thinking about doing it for awhile, anyway. On impulse, he follows through on what he had sort of thought were just fantasies - poisoning her. So, he offers to make dinner - something simple and easy - and easy to poison.

emmcee
12-23-2009, 02:34 PM
Random thoughts:

I tend to not think he burned her body, mainly b/c it would take a very long time and produce smoke which someone might see.

From the very beginning I have thought that her body is not terribly far from home. No particular reason, just the ol' gut feeling.

I wonder if there are outdoor hobby clubs in the area that are familiar with old mine shafts, old wells, etc. - like search and rescue groups, scouts, 4-wheeler groups, hikers, campers, etc. Seems like those types of places should be searched within a reasonable radius of the home. And then widen the radius gradually to check more of these types of places. Or maybe that's not logical to do this time of year?

omegagal
12-23-2009, 02:41 PM
I read that Josh & Susan were married in the Portland Temple...From what I've read, a couple (and those attending) must have a temple recommend. ( http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/weddings/ )

So if Josh had to have a temple recommend for a temple wedding did he lose it?
Yes he would have gotten it taken away from him for "behavior unbecoming of a priesthood holder in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". Or when time came for a new temple recommend interview with the bishop and stake president, Josh decided not to make that appointment. My opinion, he had it taken away from him. As far as the comment on Tithing, I don't think Josh would have a hard time tithing 10% of 1400 for the year.... it must be for some other reason... abuse, pornography (my bet), a felony conviction, drinking alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc, etc. It wasn't because "he didn't come to church". People don't go to church when there's one of the other reasons not to go (see above).

oh_gal
12-23-2009, 02:53 PM
I kind of laugh at the Jovanna speculation. I see her as just a motherly woman who was trying to be helpful. She seems to have a bit of a meddlesome quality to her, obviously. And she definitely likes the attention she's getting from the media. But I don't get the sense she's in any way implicit in Susan's disappearance.

She reminds me of a lady I knew a few years back. She even looks a lot like her. I loved this lady - she was like a grandmother to my kids. My brother-in-law died, and left a widow and three small kids. This lady completely took them under her wing for a few years. She was incredibly meddlesome, but she really had a good heart. And the only way I knew her was through business.

I don't think she had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, either except, perhaps, for possibly withholding information because..........she's got a thing for him. She's older, possibly lonely, and here's this young guy who, if he were looking for someone to be a pawn, would just have to throw her a couple crumbs of attention, and...viola, he's got a supporter for life.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 02:56 PM
I hope the police have checked to see if Joshy has recently purchased any cement mix -- like Quikcrete.....it sets up quickly & it also can irritate/burn your skin.

Maybe he made some anchors ala Scott Peterson. :(

Or checked to see if he bought lime....it will also irritate the skin. :(

omegagal
12-23-2009, 02:56 PM
I don't think she had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, either except, perhaps, for possibly withholding information because..........she's got a thing for him. She's older, possibly lonely, and here's this young guy who, if he were looking for someone to be a pawn, would just have to throw her a couple crumbs of attention, and...viola, he's got a supporter for life.
I think someone mentioned from her FB page, JoVanna is in her late 40s. My opinion, she looks at least in her late 50s. She's probably had a hard life. She has I think 7 children. Doesn't appear to be educated or financially well off.... just a tough time...

omegagal
12-23-2009, 03:07 PM
New article, LE pressure to arrest Josh:

http://www.abcactionnews.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=20041@wfts.dayport.com&navCatId=3&rss=823

eyes4crime
12-23-2009, 03:08 PM
I don't think she had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, either except, perhaps, for possibly withholding information because..........she's got a thing for him. She's older, possibly lonely, and here's this young guy who, if he were looking for someone to be a pawn, would just have to throw her a couple crumbs of attention, and...viola, he's got a supporter for life.

I don't think she has anything to do with Susan's disappearance. This woman looks very stoic and straight laced. Nothing exploitive or sexy about her. Makes me wonder if her world view doesn't hold some conditions for men - such as never talk down about them, or always honor the man??

also, talking on national TV isn't easy and, as much as she wants to be honest, I think the questions put her in a very difficult situation. she is very, very careful. mho

emmcee
12-23-2009, 03:18 PM
snip . . .

Or checked to see if he bought lime....it will also irritate the skin. :(

. . . snip

Now there's a very interesting thought. Lime is very caustic and can burn your skin!

omegagal
12-23-2009, 03:21 PM
Friends and Family of Susan Powell FB page will be down on Christmas day for observance and to have a day of quiet and reflection for Susan..... Everyone have a Merry Christmas!!!

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 03:48 PM
http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-neighbors-josh-possibly-involved-susan-powell,0,1188310.story

very good video/interview with the neighbor. He thinks Josh did it. He also says that Susan emailed him with her concerns but she had to do it from WORK. Josh was so controlling he would not let her use the computer at home!

Also: LE took Josh's original cell phone (thank God) when they took the van.

eta: there will be more on this channel at five pm per the interview with Jim Peterson.. who is reported as fearing for Susan's life!

adnoid
12-23-2009, 03:53 PM
Every two years, your temple recommend expires. To renew it, you have interviews with a bishop...

I have a phrase I use in discussions with Mrs. Adnoid, as follows: "If there are two ways you can take what I am about to say, and one of them upsets you, I meant the other one." By this I mean I am honestly asking a question, not trying to send a coded message meant to in any way belittle or degrade. I just want to understand.

If you cannot get into the temple without a recommend, and you cannot get a recommend without attending, what happens if it expires? Would Josh have had to check in every time with someone so they could approve him to get in so he could attend to fulfill the requirement?

Note - of course, that line doesn't work.

nervous_nellie
12-23-2009, 04:07 PM
I hope the police have checked to see if Joshy has recently purchased any cement mix -- like Quikcrete.....it sets up quickly & it also can irritate/burn your skin.

Maybe he made some anchors ala Scott Peterson. :(

Or checked to see if he bought lime....it will also irritate the skin. :(

iirc susan had a garden in the summer, didnt she? i know i read that she canned her own veggies. so there may have been lime used for gardening already at their home, garage maybe?

SuziQ
12-23-2009, 04:16 PM
I have a phrase I use in discussions with Mrs. Adnoid, as follows: "If there are two ways you can take what I am about to say, and one of them upsets you, I meant the other one." By this I mean I am honestly asking a question, not trying to send a coded message meant to in any way belittle or degrade. I just want to understand.

If you cannot get into the temple without a recommend, and you cannot get a recommend without attending, what happens if it expires? Would Josh have had to check in every time with someone so they could approve him to get in so he could attend to fulfill the requirement?

Note - of course, that line doesn't work.

Attendance is referring to the local ward house meetings on Sundays. You and I can go in. A temple recommend is what it states. It allows you to go into the dedicated temples for various reasons. Usually reserved for the most holy of ceremonies like temple marriages (Sealings). So in other words being a good boy at the local ward house will get you a recommend to be allowed into the temple. I'm not LDS, so someone can jump in and correct me. lol.

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 04:17 PM
I have a phrase I use in discussions with Mrs. Adnoid, as follows: "If there are two ways you can take what I am about to say, and one of them upsets you, I meant the other one." By this I mean I am honestly asking a question, not trying to send a coded message meant to in any way belittle or degrade. I just want to understand.

If you cannot get into the temple without a recommend, and you cannot get a recommend without attending, what happens if it expires? Would Josh have had to check in every time with someone so they could approve him to get in so he could attend to fulfill the requirement?

Note - of course, that line doesn't work.

No, I'm not offended at all. And speaking of Mrs. Adnoid - does she cut your hair? I like it. I like it a lot. If having a wickedly-cool mullet is wrong, I don't want to be right? I think you hear me knocking - am I right?

The temple is different than regular church. There are a hundred or so temples in the world. There are thousands of LDS meeting houses. The temple is a place where only certain ordinances are performed (weddings, for example). The temples aren't even open on Sunday. LDS members attend regular church meetings in the meeting houses that you see all over. Anyone can go into the meeting houses - even those who aren't members of the LDS church. Temples are considered sacred by Mormons, so only those who have temple recommends are allowed to go.

So, to attend the temple, one must first be able to say, among other things, that they regularly attend their church meetings. Does that make sense?

AmandaReckonwith
12-23-2009, 04:17 PM
This Tim Peterson dude knew all about the marriage troubles.
I have not seen his wife speaking out.

Not sure what I think of this guy, but I always wonder about motives when someone (neighbor, etc) starts dishing.

Kind of the same feeling about Jovonna, maybe.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 04:20 PM
I have a phrase I use in discussions with Mrs. Adnoid, as follows: "If there are two ways you can take what I am about to say, and one of them upsets you, I meant the other one." By this I mean I am honestly asking a question, not trying to send a coded message meant to in any way belittle or degrade. I just want to understand.

If you cannot get into the temple without a recommend, and you cannot get a recommend without attending, what happens if it expires? Would Josh have had to check in every time with someone so they could approve him to get in so he could attend to fulfill the requirement?

Note - of course, that line doesn't work.

Adnoid, the Temples are just for certain functions and seperate from the church they go to every week where those questions would be put to them. You don't need a Temple reccomendation to go to church, just to get in the Temple.

Curious Me
12-23-2009, 04:20 PM
I know wife-killers have hauled their bodies for miles before, but it's really not that common from the cases I've read....most bodies are found close to home....I can't see Joshy wanting to drive a body for hundreds of miles.

What if he went somewhere close during the 5-ish til 8:30pm timeframe to prepare a place for the body - or scout it out to be sure it would be safe to take one to that place? (for some reason I believe it's related to water...IDK why.) He could have gotten the windburn/frostbite at this time doing his 'prep work'.

Then he returns to the house around 8:30, puts the kids to bed, waits til they are sleeping (and maybe even Susan is sleeping) and does the dirty deed.

He is very nervous & in his haste to lock or unlock the van, he hits the wrong button & the alarm sounds. Puts Susan in the back, goes back into the house to get the sleeping boys, one at a time, making sure he doesn't wake them.

He drives off into the nite w/ the boys still asleep, takes Susan to the site he picked out earlier, and his hands get even more damaged.....then he drives away still nervous about what he's done....he drives & drives & drives -- no place in particular....pulls over to sleep in an isolated area & when the boys wake them up he tells them they are camping.

JMOOOC as I've been thinking of scenarios that would explain him leaving the house 2x, putting the body close to him, and explain being gone for 17 hours.

There is something in this post that got me thinking from another angle. Thanks Texas Mist for pointing out a reason for leaving the house twice. Maybe the body is alot closer to home then. We know he came back at 8:30 pm from doing something to prepare. I don't think Josh would want to drive around with the body in the van for too long either.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Adnoid, the Temples are just for certain functions and seperate from the church they go to every week where those questions would be put to them. You don't need a Temple reccomendation to go to church, just to get in the Temple. is a temple reccomendation like a piece of paper? Does it expire, etc?

Also, Josh seemed to have been attending when he MET Susan... as he met her at single's ward iirc..

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:30 PM
http://www2.wjbf.com/jbf/news/national/article/missing_utah_mom_investigation_focusing_on_car_her _husband_rented_e-mails/46896/

LE says in this video he had the car less than 24 hours. Where'd ya go Joshy poo?

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 04:31 PM
This Tim Peterson dude knew all about the marriage troubles.
I have not seen his wife speaking out.

Not sure what I think of this guy, but I always wonder about motives when someone (neighbor, etc) starts dishing.

Kind of the same feeling about Jovonna, maybe.

You know Amanda that has bothered me from the start. There was also a point where he had to call the police on Josh but we don't know what it was about. Maybe this is just bad blood letting it all out.

I really do believe though Josh went to the people he felt were messing with his married life after he killed Susan. I think he went to the church that next Sunday and sat there and cried and really was just saying hey I am here and she is not. I think he went to Petersons for the same reason and he went to the Candle Vigil for the same reason, telling the Cox's here I am and she is not. Those are probably the main people he blames for having to kill her.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:35 PM
very good thoughts Doc Fessel!

nervous_nellie
12-23-2009, 04:35 PM
a thought about the chapped/burned hands as well as the possibility that he may have gotten the van stuck somewhere during the "camping" trip...what if he got the van stuck BEFORE he had left susan somewhere? that might cause him to really panic and use everything in his power(hands in snow) to get un-stuck before someone came along and offered help....like a police officer?? it really doesnt make a difference anyway, but just wondering whats up with the hands...

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 04:36 PM
is a temple reccomendation like a piece of paper? Does it expire, etc?

Also, Josh seemed to have been attending when he MET Susan... as he met her at single's ward iirc..

I think you just get your name on a list. It has to be renewed every 2 years.

GingerRed
12-23-2009, 04:39 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Friend-Powell-took-time-getting-home.html

New article, this stuff is really falling apart for Josh now.

When Josh Powell was first told his wife was missing, it took him two hours to get home even though he said he had been driving around West Valley City, according to a neighbor and friend of Susan Powell.

There's a lot of other major hink action in this article. It paints a much fuller picture of how NOT worried and odd he was behaving.

AmandaReckonwith
12-23-2009, 04:40 PM
You know Amanda that has bothered me from the start. There was also a point where he had to call the police on Josh but we don't know what it was about. Maybe this is just bad blood letting it all out.

I really do believe though Josh went to the people he felt were messing with his married life after he killed Susan. I think he went to the church that next Sunday and sat there and cried and really was just saying hey I am here and she is not. I think he went to Petersons for the same reason and he went to the Candle Vigil for the same reason, telling the Cox's here I am and she is not. Those are probably the main people he blames for having to kill her.

You know what? I think this is exactly it.

They wouldn't just leave her alone, they had to keep pushing that dang religion on her (to his way of thinking, I mean)

If they'd all left them alone, she wouldn't have gotten those ideas into her head.... and so on.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:41 PM
When Josh Powell was first told his wife was missing, it took him two hours to get home even though he said he had been driving around West Valley City, according to a neighbor and friend of Susan Powell

Tim Petersen is a neighbor of the Powells and a member of their LDS Church ward. He and his wife are good friends with Susan, and Tim has helped Susan with her marriage counseling.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Friend-Powell-took-time-getting-home.html

I don't see anything hinky about Mr. Peterson. I see a friend coming forward as she continues to be missing and Josh has not been arrested. He knows Josh did this and must know a LOT of details about their problems as well.

Now I really am voting with what you said above, Doctor Fessel! He went to all the people that he most likely blamed for having to kill his wife. Including Kiirsi who is clueless about it and still thinks he is a poor, innocent man.

GingerRed
12-23-2009, 04:43 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Friend-Powell-took-time-getting-home.html

New article, this stuff is really falling apart for Josh now.



There's a lot of other major hink action in this article. It paints a much fuller picture of how NOT worried and odd he was behaving.

"He wanted to talk about everything else. He sat there in a daze. He was ticked off police took his van," he said. "He was just being extremely careful about everything he said."

Ticked off about the van. This sounds EXACTLY like Scott Peterson!

GingerRed
12-23-2009, 04:44 PM
So according to this new article, Josh was either in WVC or lying about it, either we he took two hours. The police will know when he took that call, if he was in WVC or not. If he was, he was disposing of evidence, cleaning up, or just driving around going "OMG OMG OMG!" I'll bet.

And he was just driving around? Does that make any sense at all?!?! This guy is waaaaaay dumb. The fact he has managed to evade arrest thus far is purely dumb luck IMO.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 04:46 PM
[QUOTE=passionflower;4593300]Timeline

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did anyone put a timeline on this last 2 weeks?
Maybe we could put one together. TIA
I'm looking over my notes. But need help........
anyone have the timeline better than I have? PLEASE add

Sunday, December 6, 2009
Susan went to church, walked home with friends.
JP made pancakes and eggs for supper, rarely cooked.
LoVonna was over to help Susan with crocheting project.
LoVonna left at 5 pm.
JP took sons sledding in dark at 5:30pm.
Neighbor saw JP come home at 8:30pm
Neighbor heard JP's van's security going off in garage at 11:45pm.

Monday, Dec 7, 2009
JP left for a camping trip at 12:30 am Monday morning with sons.
JP and Susan do not show up for work.
Sons are not at babysitters.
Relatives are called.
Concerned relatives call LE, who break a window for wellness search.
Friend calls JP cell phone at 3pm
Another friend contacts JP by cell phone at 4pm.
JP arrives home at 5pm.
After arriving home, Josh is confronted by LE.
LE takes the van to search.
Josh BUYS CLOTHES AND NEW CELL PHONE.
TIM PETERSON TAKES goes to airport and rents a car.
He is gone for 24 hours.
JOSH DOES NOT TELL ANYONE WHERE HE IS GOING.


Tuesday, December 8th
JP calls Susan's dad and tells him Susan is missing.

Wednesday, December 9th
JP comes back home?
Did he take sons for 24 hours?
Where was he?
Police spent two hours removing items from the Powell home.
Police say Josh Powell is not a suspect at this time

Thursday, December 10Police searched the Simpson Spring Recreation Area and found no sign of Josh Powell's campsite.
Josh Powell speaks briefly with reporters

Friday, December 11Police stil have no arrests and said Josh Powell is a person of interest

Saturday, December 12:
Susan Powell's father, Charles Cox, traveled to Utah to help search for his daughter.
Josh Powell's family held a press conference and Josh Powell stands silenty with them.
Community members pass out fliers with pictures of Susan Powell.

Sunday, December 13, 2009
1 week Susan is gone.

Monday, December,14:
Josh Powell retains attorney.
JP does not show up to talk with LE.
Skips 3rd interview with LE

Wednesday, December 16,2009
LE takes DNA of Josh Powell.
Search home during a prayer vigil.
LE finds JOURNAL of Susan's at work


Friday/Sat, December 18/19
Josh on the run to Washington?

Saturday, December 19, 2009
ABC subpeoned for video tapes.
All news agencies asked not to destroy video tapes.

Sunday, December 20,2009
2 weeks Susan is gone.
World wide prayer vigil at 8:30pm.
JP and son show up unexpectedly to Susan's vigil.
they stand 15 feet away from Cox family and are silent.
JP talked to 1 sister for a moment Diane?
Suppose to of said he would talk to her later.
JP and sons staying in Steve Powell's house in a GATED
community.
Steve Powell father of Josh defends son in interview.
John Hellewell who is a neighbor of the Powell's found out about the trip Sunday when Josh called him. His first concern was to find someone to "pet sit" his birds.

Monday, December 21, 2009
More comes out about Susan's emails to friends
about abuse in her marriage to a Josh.
If she dies, it will NOT be suicide.
Susan is afraid Josh will kidnap the sons or WORSE!

Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Wednesday, December 23, 2009
http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-neighbors-josh-possibly-involved-susan-powell,0,1188310.story

__________________
I added more,

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:46 PM
Petersen said friends and family members tried several times to call Josh on his cell phone Dec. 7. When he finally answered, Petersen said Josh didn't seem very panicked when they told him Susan was missing and no one had any idea where she was.
"They told him, 'The police are here at your house. You might want to come home.' It took him two hours. When we asked him where he had been, he just said, 'I've been driving around West Valley City.' It took him two hours to get home. He wasn't in a big hurry to get home and find his wife, he just … I don't know. It's a really crappy situation," Petersen said.
~~~~snip
Another church member helped police get into the house shortly after Susan's disappearance, Petersen said. He later told Petersen he saw two fans aimed at a wet spot on the carpet in the front room. There were toys also scattered around the floor, he said.
~~~~snip


and the bingo snip:

Petersen said the Powell's marriage counselor instructed Susan to set specific goals. Susan told Josh that her goal was for him to become active in the church again by the end of 2009 and to have his temple recommend again by their anniversary in the spring, otherwise she was going to divorce him and take the children, Petersen said.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Powell-took-his-time-getting-home-neighbor-says.html?pg=2

GingerRed
12-23-2009, 04:49 PM
Another church member helped police get into the house shortly after Susan's disappearance, Petersen said. He later told Petersen he saw two fans aimed at a wet spot on the carpet in the front room. There were toys also scattered around the floor, he said.
~~~~snip


and the bingo snip:



So we're to believe she shampooed the carpet but didn't pick up the toys, huh?

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 04:49 PM
I think you just get your name on a list. It has to be renewed every 2 years.

A temple recommend is a card (from what I've researched for another case here @ WS)....here's an example.

http://packham.n4m.org/recomm.htm

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:51 PM
did you guys SEE THAT!!! She was going to leave him if he didn't have his temple reccomend by their anniversary in April..

Wonder if him not attending church that Sunday was what caused the argument????

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 04:51 PM
is a temple reccomendation like a piece of paper? Does it expire, etc?

Also, Josh seemed to have been attending when he MET Susan... as he met her at single's ward iirc..

It is actually a piece of paper, signed by you and your bishop/stake president. It shows the date you received it, and the date it expires. You show it when you enter the temple. You can't get in without it.

He would have had to have one to get married.

Just to make sure I'm clear, I'm really not trying to bring religion into any discussions on this, other than to answer basic questions to add insight into the situation. I am trying to avoid anything that could be construed as overstepping my bounds. :)

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 04:53 PM
Tim Petersen is a neighbor of the Powells and a member of their LDS Church ward. He and his wife are good friends with Susan, and Tim has helped Susan with her marriage counseling.

Not sure if this means he is a counselor or just helped her in some way. Makes me wonder if he had to call the police on Josh for a threat of violence towards Susan or actual violence.

If that is the case then the counseling should have been forget this, get out now.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Powell-took-his-time-getting-home-neighbor-says.html?pg=2

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 04:55 PM
It is actually a piece of paper, signed by you and your bishop/stake president. It shows the date you received it, and the date it expires. You show it when you enter the temple. You can't get in without it.

He would have had to have one to get married.

Just to make sure I'm clear, I'm really not trying to bring religion into any discussions on this, other than to answer basic questions to add insight into the situation. I am trying to avoid anything that could be construed as overstepping my bounds. :)

DomCasual

Could you explain Temples, Stakes and Wards for people. That might help people to follow along with these terms as they are used.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 04:56 PM
I am sure LE is loving the pressure that Peterson is putting on Joshy.

I bet he is absolutely LIVID.

And I also bet he is following the developments on line, being the ITT control freak he is.

I am so glad Mr. Peterson is dishing to the media!

passionflower
12-23-2009, 04:59 PM
Tim Petersen is a neighbor of the Powells and a member of their LDS Church ward. He and his wife are good friends with Susan, and Tim has helped Susan with her marriage counseling.

Not sure if this means he is a counselor or just helped her in some way. Makes me wonder if he had to call the police on Josh for a threat of violence towards Susan or actual violence.

If that is the case then the counseling should have been forget this, get out now.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Powell-took-his-time-getting-home-neighbor-says.html?pg=2

IMO, then HE KNOWS allot about the dark side of JOSH!!!

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 05:02 PM
OT but are guys in Utah getting that storm? It is supposed to be in Kansas, where I am, tomorrow

Back On the topic,
DomCasual, I am very interested to learn how the religion works as well. If Mr. Peterson were helping with her counseling what would that mean? And also, what is the process of getting a temple reccommend? Do you have to go to church every weeK, etc? Would the counseling be part of it???

Is it possible that Mr. Peterson was "sponsoring" or "mentoring" Susan during her counseling? Is that a possibility?

TIA

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:02 PM
HLN, Mike Galanes will be talking more about Susan's case in a few minutes

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:04 PM
If Tim is a friend and not a professional counselor than by law he will be able to tell all!!!!

Also how much is a rental car at the airport?
How much does a gallon of gas cost in Utah area???

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 05:07 PM
I wonder if Joshy is reading here ?!!! :wave: :gavel:
:whistle:

ckwood32
12-23-2009, 05:08 PM
How long does it take to get the cell phone records? I REALLY want to see those!! I want to know where that idiot was at.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 05:09 PM
this is HUGE! This fact entering the main stream media that she had an ultimatum.. an actual DATE and plan on which to leave him and the conditions... that he had to get a reccommend and wasn't going to church and missing counseling.... wow...

It makes me think that he somehow found out about this.

It gives motive doesn't it!

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 05:11 PM
Does anyone think Josh will come back from WA ?

GingerRed
12-23-2009, 05:11 PM
Does anyone think Josh will come back from WA ?

Voluntarily?

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 05:14 PM
Another thing I would like to point out that to me is very telling, is that I have not heard of any searches that will be taking place to look for Susan ...I would think organized searches would be on the news if they were having them..

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 05:16 PM
Voluntarily?

Thanks Ginger..I got a good chuckle from that one....:crazy:

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:17 PM
this is HUGE! This fact entering the main stream media that she had an ultimatum.. an actual DATE and plan on which to leave him and the conditions... that he had to get a reccommend and wasn't going to church and missing counseling.... wow...

It makes me think that he somehow found out about this.

It gives motive doesn't it!

BBM This type of man hates you to have plans, control and ultimatums He MUST run the show, be king of his castle!
So She HAD TO GO AWAY!!!
IMO, his dad helped JP see that, JP needed to get control again!!

New reports on HLN, more emails coming out.
LE will not confirm it though and JP is still just a POI.
More friends coming forward.
She was in fear of her safety!

swa
12-23-2009, 05:18 PM
I always love these cases when it's pretty obvious who is to blame. They just don't act correctly. Running off to WA . . . Wouldn't Josh want to be by the phone in case his wife called?

As in all these cases -- they already KNOW THE OUTCOME -- so it's very difficult for them to fake emotions.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:18 PM
Pieces of puzzle are coming together, slowly.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:19 PM
Susan DID have a will..........

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 05:20 PM
He had to have threatened her for her to think he would kill her and make it look like suicide. I bet it was that threat the cops were called on Josh.

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 05:22 PM
DomCasual

Could you explain Temples, Stakes and Wards for people. That might help people to follow along with these terms as they are used.

Sure.

Ward: This is another term for congregation. The LDS church divides its congregations up by geography. You attend church based on the area in which you live. In Utah, where there is a large population of Mormons, your ward might only be a few square miles of area. In other places, it might be a few hundred square miles. Ward boundaries are broken out so that the ward stays a manageable size - maybe a few hundred active members. Once the LDS population in an area grows above this size, the ward will be reorganized into more wards. LDS chapels (or meeting houses) house at least one ward. Each ward has services every Sunday in the chapels/meeting houses.

At the head of a ward is a bishop. He is just a member of the ward that serves in his spare time. A bishop will usually serve for six years, give or take. It is an unpaid position, so Bishops must continue to sustain themselves and their families, financially.

Stake: This is just an organization of wards. I'm not sure if there is a standard as to how many wards might be in a stake - my guess is it's about five or six. At the head of a stake is a stake president - again, an unpaid position, filled by a person that resides in one of the wards in the stake. The purpose of a stake is simply to help manage the logistical needs of the church.

Temples: A temple is a building where Mormons carry out what they consider to be their sacred ordinances. A temple will serve many stakes - there is one temple in Denver, for example, and it serves stakes in several western states. The Powells were married in the Portland temple, which is one of two temples serving the entire Pacific Northwest. Temples are open during the week, and closed on Sundays. Temples are only open to LDS members with current temple recommends. The exception to this is when a temple is first opened. On such occasions, the Church will offer a window of time when anyone can tour the temple. At the end of the open house (usually a few months), the temple is dedicated, and closed to those not holding a current temple recommend.

Hopefully, that all makes a little sense.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:23 PM
Oh still talking about other person (people) of interest!
Did he have help?
Help with moving her body?
Killing her?
Cover up?
IIRC, did they just say they where seeing if 'someone ' was in the rental car with him????

SusanB
12-23-2009, 05:24 PM
Story is on HLN right now

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:25 PM
I always love these cases when it's pretty obvious who is to blame. They just don't act correctly. Running off to WA . . . Wouldn't Josh want to be by the phone in case his wife called?

As in all these cases -- they already KNOW THE OUTCOME -- so it's very difficult for them to fake emotions.

Reminds me of Scott P not answering his phone on TV when Laci was missing.......just in case she was found.........cause he knew she wouldn't be calling let alone found!!!

SusanB
12-23-2009, 05:25 PM
Something new - JP bought a prepaid cell phone in the day he left for 24 hours. Thats may hinder the tracking of cell phone pings

adnoid
12-23-2009, 05:28 PM
No, I'm not offended at all. And speaking of Mrs. Adnoid - does she cut your hair? I like it. I like it a lot. If having a wickedly-cool mullet is wrong, I don't want to be right? I think you hear me knocking - am I right?...

http://www.dontjudgemyhair.com

...So, to attend the temple, one must first be able to say, among other things, that they regularly attend their church meetings. Does that make sense?

OK, I get it - the temple and the church are different things.

Not trying to get into religion, what I was wondering was if there was some sort of procedure Josh had to go through every Sunday due to his lack of the proper paperwork that could have fueled the resentment in his pea brain, as it would be obvious to the others there that he was in some sort of special category. It looks like that's not the case, thanks for the info.

BTW, he's still guilty as hell.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:28 PM
a caller said this was just like Tara's case in Michigan........
Looks like Lisa Stebics case and like the Laci Peterson case.

IMO, is there a GF???

SusanB
12-23-2009, 05:29 PM
Talking about the chapped hands. Bizarre behavior. Questioning the lost track of Sat/Sun. New search warrant for family van. Mike G. and guest comparing to Stebic and Peterson cases.
Also, revealed that emails are being presented to LE from friends about will, JP behavior, and that she would never commit suicide.
To me, that sound like, "If I go missing found dead, I did not commit suicide." (Look at my husband!) IMOO.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 05:30 PM
a caller said this was just like Tara's case in Michigan........
Looks like Lisa Stebics case and like the Laci Peterson case.

IMO, is there a GF???

I am wondering that too.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:30 PM
What a sad Christmas for the Cox family.
Wonder how Josh will smerk in their faces again?

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 05:32 PM
Talking about the chapped hands. Bizarre behavior. Questioning the lost track of Sat/Sun. New search warrant for family van. Mike G. and guest comparing to Stebic and Peterson cases.
Also, revealed that emails are being presented to LE from friends about will, JP behavior, and that she would never commit suicide.
To me, that sound like, "If I go missing found dead, I did not commit suicide." (Look at my husband!) IMOO.

If there is a new search warrant for the Van I wonder if it is in WA?

passionflower
12-23-2009, 05:33 PM
I hope LE can put a bug somehow, or tap phones in father Steve's house!
I bet plans are being made to run to Canada with the kids ASAP!!!

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 05:33 PM
OT but are guys in Utah getting that storm? It is supposed to be in Kansas, where I am, tomorrow

Back On the topic,
DomCasual, I am very interested to learn how the religion works as well. If Mr. Peterson were helping with her counseling what would that mean? And also, what is the process of getting a temple reccommend? Do you have to go to church every weeK, etc? Would the counseling be part of it???

Is it possible that Mr. Peterson was "sponsoring" or "mentoring" Susan during her counseling? Is that a possibility?

TIA

The temple recommend interview is required to receive a temple recommend. The verbiage for the interview that someone posted a page or two back is accurate. I think the standard they suggest for attending meetings is at least 50%, but I don't know that this is official. The bottom line is that they sort of leave those kind of questions up the the judgment/conscience of the member answering the questions. One of the questions is if you strive to be honest, which would certainly apply to a temple recommend interview.

I think the way it might work with counseling is that you would first go talk with your Bishop, and he would make recommendations as to how you proceed. But that certainly isn't a requirement. My wife and I went through some issues several years ago, and we just found a regular marriage counselor in our area. This Peterson guy might be a Bishop; but I sort of get the impression he's just someone that Susan approached on her own. The church has something called LDS Social Services that provides counseling, among other services. Sometimes, Bishops will refer people there. But LDS Social Services counselors would be full-time professionals with degrees. This Peterson guy wouldn't be that, because he would be bound by the same privacy restrictions any health professional would have.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 05:33 PM
If the cops taking the van pissed Josh off then they need to keep doing it. De-wheel him.

DomCasual
12-23-2009, 05:39 PM
http://www.dontjudgemyhair.com



OK, I get it - the temple and the church are different things.

Not trying to get into religion, what I was wondering was if there was some sort of procedure Josh had to go through every Sunday due to his lack of the proper paperwork that could have fueled the resentment in his pea brain, as it would be obvious to the others there that he was in some sort of special category. It looks like that's not the case, thanks for the info.

BTW, he's still guilty as hell.

Yep, and the heat seems to have been turned up quite a bit today. :thumb:

I'll feel so much better about this when he's arrested, and we find out the boys are safe and in good hands.

sunflowerchick
12-23-2009, 05:46 PM
DomCasual

Could you explain Temples, Stakes and Wards for people. That might help people to follow along with these terms as they are used.

I can. I grew up in the LDS Church, and I have bounced from lurking in other threads to this one, because this is so close to home (literally about 30 miles away).

The LDS church breaks its membership down into areas based on location. Which church you attend depends entirely on where you live. The small neighborhood of people you go to church with regularly is called a ward. There may be several wards that attend church meetings in the same building with the times staggered throughout the day on Sunday so that all wards can be accomodated.

Then several wards in the same area belong to a larger region called a stake. There is then a larger stake conference that is held bi-annually, where all of the wards in the stake region attend.

Finally, with regard to temples, a person must be a member in good standing with the church in order to obtain a temple recommend. In order to get a temple recommend you also must have an interview with your bishop, and there are many questions he might ask. You are expected to live by the Word of Wisdom, you are expected to pay tithing, and you are expected to uphold your financial, legal and other responsibilites in life. For example, someone owing financial debt like past child support could be denied a recommend.

Also with Susan being LDS and the church being important to her, I can tell you that it is also likely that she would expect Josh to hold the Priesthood, to be able to adminster blessings on the kids, and to be able to baptize them when they turn 8 years of age. This could have been a large source of contention if he wasn't in a position to do this.

I am also not trying to engage in any religious discussion, but if you have questions you want answered, I am happy to help. I do think that some of this could have a bearing on the case.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 05:51 PM
wow! Thanks Dom and Sunflower for that good information. I do happen to believe that religion has a lot to do with what happened to susan.

As for the priesthood... what exactly is that? and do you have to have a temple recommend for that?

fran
12-23-2009, 05:53 PM
did you guys SEE THAT!!! She was going to leave him if he didn't have his temple reccomend by their anniversary in April..

Wonder if him not attending church that Sunday was what caused the argument????

I do believe that Josh not going to church that day was a cause of a HUGE argument that may have occurred before the friend came over to work on the knitting project. I believe Josh's fawning over Susan and the friend, kept coming out checking on them, bringing a blanket for Susan, making dinner, taking care of the kids, doing the dishes, all was part of the honeymoon aftermath of an argument.

When Susan went to bed, Josh found a reason to get rid of the friend. I think he did that because he knew, most likely because Susan went to lay down, that she was still very angry. I believe the argument resumed after the friend left, thus the wet spot on the carpet that wasn't there when the friend was there (as reported in an earlier news article).

The deadlines were made on the suggestion of the counselor and Susan was insistant on sticking to them, per Mr. Peterson. She said if he wasn't straightened out by Spring, she was going to leave, but he also HAD TO BE ATTENDING CHURCH REGULARLY by the end of the year. It was ALSMOST the end of the year. He wasn't going to church which meant he wouldn't be able to fulfil his other obligations either.

Susan's friends said she had started standing up to Josh. I believe she was upset because he didn't go to church, she KNEW he wasn't going to change and him making dinner etc just wasn't enough! I believe she was over him, she told him so and ............................

JMHO
fran

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 05:56 PM
That old saying there is a bit of truth to every lie....On the news yesterday, when Jovanna said that Josh covered Susan up with a blanket because Susan said she was cold.......maybe they both (Jovanna and Josh) covered Susan with a blanket after she was murdered. Just like she added the little fact about him spilling something on the kitchen floor and wiping it up. I feel she is either helping Josh or helping him cover his tracks. JMO

fran
12-23-2009, 05:58 PM
Something new - JP bought a prepaid cell phone in the day he left for 24 hours. Thats may hinder the tracking of cell phone pings

Maybe they got a SW for his NEW cell phone!

That would be a good thing!

JMHO
fran

passionflower
12-23-2009, 06:03 PM
That old saying there is a bit of truth to every lie....On the news yesterday, when Jovanna said that Josh covered Susan up with a blanket because Susan said she was cold.......maybe they both (Jovanna and Josh) covered Susan with a blanket after she was murdered. Just like she added the little fact about him spilling something on the kitchen floor and wiping it up. I feel she is either helping Josh or helping him cover his tracks. JMO

IIRC wasn't the blanket to cover JoVonna? Jovonna was cold???

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 06:06 PM
Jovanna said last night that Susan said she was cold, he covered her up and that she said "that was so nice of you".....something like that.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 06:06 PM
Maybe they got a SW for his NEW cell phone!

That would be a good thing!

JMHO
fran
bet that would really pi$$ him off! hope they go to Washington to get it from him!

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 06:07 PM
.......I guess I could have heard wrong. Did anyone else hear this?

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I didn't watch it Angel...

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 06:13 PM
Two days later, when Joshua Powell dropped by the Peterson home, he had "the worst wind burn" Peterson had ever seen on the back of his hands and he kept applying lotion to them as they talked in Peterson's front room.
"I wanted to say 'Man, this just isn't adding up,' but I didn't, I was loving and supportive," Peterson said.
Powell wouldn't answer questions about his missing wife, only saying he didn't know where she was and that he wasn't actively looking for her because the police were handling that, Peterson said.
"This guy was absolutely a crackpot and there was just something wrong with this whole situation,"

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

as usual there is much more at the link... so the burn was on the backs of his hands. chewing on this......

sunflowerchick
12-23-2009, 06:14 PM
wow! Thanks Dom and Sunflower for that good information. I do happen to believe that religion has a lot to do with what happened to susan.

As for the priesthood... what exactly is that? and do you have to have a temple recommend for that?

Wow, I am so getting in over my head with this religion thing, lol. I don't want to get into any debates, and I don't know what is allowed, but in the LDS Church, men of a certain age are given the priesthood, which entitles them to do certain things in the church, i.e. holding positions, ministering to the sick, etc. This is entirely separate from a temple recommend, although as a man, you would need to be a valid priesthood holder in order to get a recommend. There are different levels of the priesthood based on age and worthiness.

As a woman in the Church, you would expect your husband to hold the priesthood, to be the "head of the household", and to be able to lead the family in the church doctrines. This would have been huge for Susan I think because she believed in the faith, and I believe that this really could have been a large issue between them.

Based on my own experiences, when you grow up in the church or believe in the church, you expect certain things from your significant other, and when that doesn't happen, it is definitely grounds for ending the relationship.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 06:19 PM
more snips from the slt article I posted above:


Powell said the police had taken his clothes, the quilt on the couple's bed and his cell phone



He and Susan Powell became close late this summer, when she asked him questions about marriage counseling, which Peterson and his wife previously had gone through.
On the day of the Powells' first meeting with the LDS Family Service counselor, she told Peterson about Joshua Powell's controlling behavior, and how he had become more possessive and obsessive since moving to Utah five years ago. She told Peterson she wanted her husband to become active in the LDS Church again and get his temple recommend by their anniversary in 2010, or she was seriously considering divorcing him.



One night, Susan called Peterson to ask for a blessing because she was feeling so sick. He called the Elders Quorum president, and the two went to the house. Joshua Powell talked with them for 45 minutes about a computer conference he attend before Susan finally walked into the front room, looking pale and ill, Peterson said.
He asked Susan if she wanted a blessing, and she accepted. Peterson asked Joshua Powell if he wanted to participate, as it was his wife and home. He shrugged his shoulders and said OK, Peterson said.
In the middle of the blessing, the Powells' 4-year-old son, Charlie, climbed on Susan's lap and was pretending to give the blessing, too.
"All Josh could do was laugh at his son," Peterson said. "It was so heartbreaking to see he just didn't care about her needs."


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

darlin gal
12-23-2009, 06:22 PM
The new search warrant they are working on is for the rental car, not the van. According to HLN.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 06:23 PM
Wow, I am so getting in over my head with this religion thing, lol. I don't want to get into any debates, and I don't know what is allowed, but in the LDS Church, men of a certain age are given the priesthood, which entitles them to do certain things in the church, i.e. holding positions, ministering to the sick, etc. This is entirely separate from a temple recommend, although as a man, you would need to be a valid priesthood holder in order to get a recommend. There are different levels of the priesthood based on age and worthiness.

As a woman in the Church, you would expect your husband to hold the priesthood, to be the "head of the household", and to be able to lead the family in the church doctrines. This would have been huge for Susan I think because she believed in the faith, and I believe that this really could have been a large issue between them.

Based on my own experiences, when you grow up in the church or believe in the church, you expect certain things from your significant other, and when that doesn't happen, it is definitely grounds for ending the relationship. thank you sunflower! I think what you are explaining is very relevant to this case!!! Thank you!!!

Did you read this article? http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397 it mentions a time when Susan called to ask for a blessing when she was sick and Josh was a duche bag about it. Would she have called someone who held a priesthood to do this???? Would it have been a slap in Josh's face for them to ask him to Join in if he didn't have his own priesthood??? After learning more about him today I am SURE HE DID NOT HAVE IT!

passionflower
12-23-2009, 06:25 PM
JOSH is EVIL, JMOO

darlin gal
12-23-2009, 06:25 PM
karisamsydney: 12/23/2009 4:18:00 PM +1
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/images/promote.gif (http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14058397&sec=News#) http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/images/demote.gif (http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14058397&sec=News#) "Wind-burned"? That's odd. Could it be that they were "Bleach-burned" from cleaning up evidence instead? Hmmmmmmm.......
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14058397&sec=News#1310336

passionflower
12-23-2009, 06:26 PM
HLN saying JP hands were BRIGHT RED

passionflower
12-23-2009, 06:29 PM
Person (s) of interest have not been brought out yet by LE.........what the heck does that mean????

passionflower
12-23-2009, 06:32 PM
With this being the holiday weekend I don't think anything will happen as in an arrest,
I am afraid JP might go camping again to Canada with the busy traffic....squeeze through....he is a free man and can go anywhere he pleases. Scares me!!!

SuziQ
12-23-2009, 06:33 PM
OT but are guys in Utah getting that storm? It is supposed to be in Kansas, where I am, tomorrow

Back On the topic,
DomCasual, I am very interested to learn how the religion works as well. If Mr. Peterson were helping with her counseling what would that mean? And also, what is the process of getting a temple reccommend? Do you have to go to church every weeK, etc? Would the counseling be part of it???

Is it possible that Mr. Peterson was "sponsoring" or "mentoring" Susan during her counseling? Is that a possibility?

TIA

Mr Peterson might be the Bishop of the local ward.

sunflowerchick
12-23-2009, 06:34 PM
thank you sunflower! I think what you are explaining is very relevant to this case!!! Thank you!!!

Did you read this article? http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397 it mentions a time when Susan called to ask for a blessing when she was sick and Josh was a duche bag about it. Would she have called someone who held a priesthood to do this???? Would it have been a slap in Josh's face for them to ask him to Join in if he didn't have his own priesthood??? After learning more about him today I am SURE HE DID NOT HAVE IT!

:dance: Thanks Nursebeeme! That makes me feel better! I did read the article, and I think not only would it have been a slap in the face, but it also could have been the cause of an argument.

Susan would have likely been upset about the fact that she had to call someone else, because her own husband wasn't in a position to do it. Of couse, this is MOO and just speculation.

SuziQ
12-23-2009, 06:36 PM
If Tim is a friend and not a professional counselor than by law he will be able to tell all!!!!

Also how much is a rental car at the airport?
How much does a gallon of gas cost in Utah area???

O/T you guys are fast today, I can't keep up!

Someone may have already answered. 2.45 to 3.25ish?

fran
12-23-2009, 06:37 PM
.......I guess I could have heard wrong. Did anyone else hear this?

I heard the same thing. The blanket was for Susan.

fran

Emeralgem
12-23-2009, 06:38 PM
For the most part I have just been luking in here but would like to ask if anyone believes he may have been slowly poisioning her? Seems she was rather sickly at times..
I realize we all need blessings, but sometimes a person might just need to see a physician..JMO

fran
12-23-2009, 06:50 PM
Two days later, when Joshua Powell dropped by the Peterson home, he had "the worst wind burn" Peterson had ever seen on the back of his hands and he kept applying lotion to them as they talked in Peterson's front room.
"I wanted to say 'Man, this just isn't adding up,' but I didn't, I was loving and supportive," Peterson said.
Powell wouldn't answer questions about his missing wife, only saying he didn't know where she was and that he wasn't actively looking for her because the police were handling that, Peterson said.
"This guy was absolutely a crackpot and there was just something wrong with this whole situation,"

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

as usual there is much more at the link... so the burn was on the backs of his hands. chewing on this......


WoW!

Another echo of Scott Peterson in this case! From the above link. Like Scott put a glove on the door of his truck so it wouldn't mark Laci's car or when LE was filling out a form on the dining room table and SP put something under the officers paper to protect the table.

"Josh is really possessive about his things," Peterson said. "He treated everything as his possessions, including his wife and kids. He was very controlling."



Here's why Peterson knew so much about the Powell's marriage. He and his wife had gone to counseling at one time.

"Peterson is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and attends the same ward as the Powells. He and Susan Powell became close late this summer, when she asked him questions about marriage counseling, which Peterson and his wife previously had gone through."


Whoa! Great article. The people in the church couldn't stand Josh!

JMHO
fran

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 06:51 PM
more snips from the slt article I posted above:






http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

For the most part I have just been luking in here but would like to ask if anyone believes he may have been slowly poisioning her? Seems she was rather sickly at times..
I realize we all need blessings, but sometimes a person might just need to see a physician..JMO

Her hairbrush should tell that story.

SuziQ
12-23-2009, 06:53 PM
For the most part I have just been luking in here but would like to ask if anyone believes he may have been slowly poisioning her? Seems she was rather sickly at times..
I realize we all need blessings, but sometimes a person might just need to see a physician..JMO

BBM. I wonder about that too.

fran
12-23-2009, 06:55 PM
karisamsydney: 12/23/2009 4:18:00 PM +1
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/images/promote.gif (http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14058397&sec=News#) http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/images/demote.gif (http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14058397&sec=News#) "Wind-burned"? That's odd. Could it be that they were "Bleach-burned" from cleaning up evidence instead? Hmmmmmmm.......
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14058397&sec=News#1310336


I've been stooooopid enough to scrub with bleach and no gloves. It wasn't the top part of my hands that got injurred, it was my finger-tips. One of the most painful things I've ever had in my life. Blisters formed and then broke and peeled away and the nerve ends of your finger are exposed.

Ok, I did it twice!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

:blushing:
fran

fran
12-23-2009, 06:58 PM
Another morsel from the above linked article.

What a creep! :mad:

JMHO
fran



http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

Powell once yelled at the Petersons for taking off their shoes and socks in his home, saying he'd have to spend all night cleaning the floors from the germs on their bare feet.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 07:13 PM
You know, the first time I read the comment below, I wondered "hmmm - how much truth is there to this?"...after all this was soon after the story broke.

I don't wonder any more:

<comment snip>

4:46pm - Wed Dec 09th, 2009

I know this guy all too well. I used to be his neighbor and I think he's a lying cheating conniving little weasel......I'm just saying in general, this is what I think of his character

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8965718&comments=true

There's also several interesting comments by "John H."

omegagal
12-23-2009, 07:14 PM
a caller said this was just like Tara's case in Michigan........
Looks like Lisa Stebics case and like the Laci Peterson case.

IMO, is there a GF???
There could be but most psychopaths are actually a-sexual and prefer pornography and sex for hire. They don't care for entangled relationships. Scott P was an oddity. I think he just liked thinking he could get away with crap and the excitement of having another relationship.

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 07:20 PM
That night when she went to bed early feeling bad.......I feel that was the last time Josh saw her alive and then covered her with the blanket. Then possibly he put the kids to bed to prepare for his little trip and woke the kids up at midnight to surprise them with a camping trip. Maybe Jovanna is a person of interest in the fact she might have helped him cover it up......or either as a witness to see Susan feeling sick before she went to bed. JMO

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Just saw the video on Jane and Jovana says Josh sensed Susan was chilled and brought her a blanket.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 07:26 PM
more snips from the slt article I posted above:


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

<respectfully snipped>

In the middle of the blessing, the Powells' 4-year-old son, Charlie, climbed on Susan's lap and was pretending to give the blessing, too.
"All Josh could do was laugh at his son," Peterson said. "It was so heartbreaking to see he just didn't care about her needs."


Heartbreaking he didn't care about her needs & *very* *twisted* that he laughed at his little boy who obviously cared about his mom being sick & doing what he could to make her better. :mad:

Poor kids -- their 'dad' is so messed up!! :(

panthera
12-23-2009, 07:28 PM
For the most part I have just been luking in here but would like to ask if anyone believes he may have been slowly poisioning her? Seems she was rather sickly at times..
I realize we all need blessings, but sometimes a person might just need to see a physician..JMO
I haven't been following the case too closely until today when I actually had time to catch up on it, including watching JVM right now. I'm confused if Susan was sick at the time she supposedly went missing or was this blessing by the Elders of the church some other time previously? I can't imagine how JP would explain her going missing if she was sick in bed. :waitasec: I also agree with your suggestion about the poisoning if she was continually ill. MOO

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 07:37 PM
<snip>

Susan Powell's best friend says recent reports could be damaging to investigation

Susan Powell's best friend talks exclusively with ABC4 tonight, saying the information from "anonymous leaks" to local publications may be hurting the police investigation.
....

Hellewell says there are a couple items she found especially shocking. Local reports stated Susan was “afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys… divorce her or worse." Hellewell says Susan never told her that.

She also said she had never heard of any sort of will with "writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide," or stating "it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone."



more here

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Susan-Powells-best-friend-says-recent-reports/MBlD-1qZiU6rVNfZLj874A.cspx

Schmerty_Jones
12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
Another morsel from the above linked article.

What a creep! :mad:

JMHO
fran



http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

Powell once yelled at the Petersons for taking off their shoes and socks in his home, saying he'd have to spend all night cleaning the floors from the germs on their bare feet.

From the look of JP's discolored teeth,:loser: I would think there would more lethal germs there,as he spews spittle raising those snarling lips

fran
12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
According to the profiler Pat Brown's interview, she said it's not unusual of a victim to confide in some or one person about the details of their marriage and not others. Perhaps Susan didn't speak of some of these things with this gal because she was trying to make things work and IF they did work out, she didn't want her friend to hold anything against Josh.

Susan may have been more open with the Peterson couple because they had actually gone to marriage counseling before.

Just a thought,
fran

lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 07:47 PM
I hope LE can put a bug somehow, or tap phones in father Steve's house!
I bet plans are being made to run to Canada with the kids ASAP!!!

am thinking JP's Dad's phone is tapped, as well as others

Emeralgem
12-23-2009, 07:48 PM
I haven't been following the case too closely until today when I actually had time to catch up on it, including watching JVM right now. I'm confused if Susan was sick at the time she supposedly went missing or was this blessing by the Elders of the church some other time previously? I can't imagine how JP would explain her going missing if she was sick in bed. :waitasec: I also agree with your suggestion about the poisoning if she was continually ill. MOO`

It is my understanding that the "blessing" being discussed was on another occasion when she was feeling
ill. I just find it somewhat strange that she felt the need to go to bed after she had eaten whatever it was he had prepared for her to eat....JMO

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 07:56 PM
<snip>

Susan Powell's best friend says recent reports could be damaging to investigation

Susan Powell's best friend talks exclusively with ABC4 tonight, saying the information from "anonymous leaks" to local publications may be hurting the police investigation.
....

Hellewell says there are a couple items she found especially shocking. Local reports stated Susan was “afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys… divorce her or worse." Hellewell says Susan never told her that.

She also said she had never heard of any sort of will with "writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide," or stating "it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone."



more here

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Susan-Powells-best-friend-says-recent-reports/MBlD-1qZiU6rVNfZLj874A.cspx

I have never quite figured this girl out.

panthera
12-23-2009, 07:56 PM
According to the profiler Pat Brown's interview, she said it's not unusual of a victim to confide in some or one person about the details of their marriage and not others. Perhaps Susan didn't speak of some of these things with this gal because she was trying to make things work and IF they did work out, she didn't want her friend to hold anything against Josh.

Susan may have been more open with the Peterson couple because they had actually gone to marriage counseling before.

Just a thought,
fran
(bolding mine)

I totally agree with this. A lot of times someone will seek out someone else who will understand the situation they're going through, and even a close friend may not have given her the support or advice she needed. MOO

fran
12-23-2009, 07:58 PM
`

It is my understanding that the "blessing" being discussed was on another occasion when she was feeling
ill. I just find it somewhat strange that she felt the need to go to bed after she had eaten whatever it was he had prepared for her to eat....JMO

You're correct, the blessing was from another occasion.

About that last day. We heard initially Susan went to bed while her friend was there because she wasn't feeling well. Then we heard friends say that they had spoken to Susan they day and she was feeling fine. Now it's to the point that Susan just went to lay down because she was tired.

I guess that's one of the big mysteries of this case. Why did Susan go and lay down? Sick? Tired? Drugged?

curious,
fran

panthera
12-23-2009, 07:58 PM
`

It is my understanding that the "blessing" being discussed was on another occasion when she was feeling
ill. I just find it somewhat strange that she felt the need to go to bed after she had eaten whatever it was he had prepared for her to eat....JMO
Thanks for explaining that! Now it is even more strange that whatever she ate could've made her ill ~ considering he'd prepared it for her. It kind of reminds me of the Coleman case where the DH (and accused killer) had prepared his family's last meal before (allegedly) killing them. MOO

panthera
12-23-2009, 08:00 PM
You're correct, the blessing was from another occasion.

About that last day. We heard initially Susan went to bed while her friend was there because she wasn't feeling well. Then we heard friends say that they had spoken to Susan they day and she was feeling fine. Now it's to the point that Susan just went to lay down because she was tired.

I guess that's one of the big mysteries of this case. Why did Susan go and lay down? Sick? Tired? Drugged?

curious,
fran
And then she supposedly recovered quickly while he was out "camping" and vanished into thin air?? :waitasec: Sorry, it just doesn't make sense! MOO

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 08:01 PM
`

It is my understanding that the "blessing" being discussed was on another occasion when she was feeling
ill. I just find it somewhat strange that she felt the need to go to bed after she had eaten whatever it was he had prepared for her to eat....JMO

Maybe that's why JP offered to fix dinner so that he could poison her food. Maybe he was slowly poisoning her.

fran
12-23-2009, 08:02 PM
(bolding mine)

I totally agree with this. A lot of times someone will seek out someone else who will understand the situation they're going through, and even a close friend may not have given her the support or advice she needed. MOO

I believe in that recent article with an interview of this Peterson, he said Susan talked openly to them (him?)(I think he meant he and his wife?), anyway, she talked openly to them until Josh wasn't doing his part, wasn't really trying and Peterson told her she should leave him. He also told her no one else in the church liked him either.

She kind of stopped discussing this with him about then. Who knows, that might be why she didn't discuss it with her other friend. Maybe at some time in the past, the friend told Susan to leave Josh too.

Too bad she didn't listen.:(

JMHO
fran

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 08:02 PM
Hellewell says there are a couple items she found especially shocking. Local reports stated Susan was “afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys… divorce her or worse." Hellewell says Susan never told her that.

She also said she had never heard of any sort of will with "writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide," or stating "it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone."

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Susan-Powells-best-friend-says-recent-reports/MBlD-1qZiU6rVNfZLj874A.cspx


Well Kiirsi I don't know about it hurting the investigation but I would bet you will be called in a trial for the defense.

nursebeeme
12-23-2009, 08:03 PM
According to the profiler Pat Brown's interview, she said it's not unusual of a victim to confide in some or one person about the details of their marriage and not others. Perhaps Susan didn't speak of some of these things with this gal because she was trying to make things work and IF they did work out, she didn't want her friend to hold anything against Josh.

Susan may have been more open with the Peterson couple because they had actually gone to marriage counseling before.

Just a thought,
fran ITA! I also think that she wouldn't confide in someone who liked her husband.... of which Kiirsi seems to!

Emeralgem
12-23-2009, 08:09 PM
Maybe that's why JP offered to fix dinner so that he could poison her food. Maybe he was slowly poisoning her.

I have entertained that thought, but what do I know? I do feel whatever happened he is the one who is responsible though...

Also, IF he did poison her she may have thrown up, she could have also lost control of bodily functions.. Could be the reason for two fans blowing on a wet spot on the carpet..JMO

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 08:14 PM
The police might be leaking alot of this stuff. Most of it is hearsay and probably will not be in a trial.

panthera
12-23-2009, 08:17 PM
I believe in that recent article with an interview of this Peterson, he said Susan talked openly to them (him?)(I think he meant he and his wife?), anyway, she talked openly to them until Josh wasn't doing his part, wasn't really trying and Peterson told her she should leave him. He also told her no one else in the church liked him either.

She kind of stopped discussing this with him about then. Who knows, that might be why she didn't discuss it with her other friend. Maybe at some time in the past, the friend told Susan to leave Josh too.

Too bad she didn't listen.:(

JMHO
fran
That could also be true. She also could've been very hesitant about leaving her husband being how the church views marriage and family, and thought somehow things would work out. MOO

omegagal
12-23-2009, 08:17 PM
Some new info from neighbor Tim Peterson

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

On the day of the Powells' first meeting with the LDS Family Service counselor, she told Peterson about Joshua Powell's controlling behavior, and how he had become more possessive and obsessive since moving to Utah five years ago. She told Peterson she wanted her husband to become active in the LDS Church again and get his temple recommend by their anniversary in 2010, or she was seriously considering divorcing him.

"She went to the marriage counselor hoping it would save their marriage," Peterson said.

But Joshua's behavior showed a lack of caring for Susan's well-being, Peterson said.

One night, Susan called Peterson to ask for a blessing because she was feeling so sick. He called the Elders Quorum president, and the two went to the house. Joshua Powell talked with them for 45 minutes about a computer conference he attended before Susan finally walked into the front room, looking pale and ill, Peterson said.

He asked Susan if she wanted a blessing, and she accepted. Peterson asked Joshua Powell if he wanted to participate, as it was his wife and home. He shrugged his shoulders and said OK, Peterson said.

In the middle of the blessing, the Powells' 4-year-old son, Charlie, climbed on Susan's lap and was pretending to give the blessing, too.

"All Josh could do was laugh at his son," Peterson said. "It was so heartbreaking to see he just didn't care about her needs."

Joshua Powell also became increasingly erratic.

Powell once yelled at the Petersons for taking off their shoes and socks in his home, saying he'd have to spend all night cleaning the floors from the germs on their bare feet.

Emeralgem
12-23-2009, 08:18 PM
You're correct, the blessing was from another occasion.

About that last day. We heard initially Susan went to bed while her friend was there because she wasn't feeling well. Then we heard friends say that they had spoken to Susan they day and she was feeling fine. Now it's to the point that Susan just went to lay down because she was tired.
I guess that's one of the big mysteries of this case. Why did Susan go and lay down? Sick? Tired? Drugged?

curious,
fran

Personally,I doubt anyone would excuse themselves from company and go lie down just because they were tired... She must have had a wave of something hit her fast....JMO

If my daughters are in town visiting and I'm tired I might excuse myself and go lie down, they are my family, but I doubt I would do that with a friend or an acquaintance who was visiting for a couple of hours...JMO

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 08:19 PM
ITA! I also think that she wouldn't confide in someone who liked her husband.... of which Kiirsi seems to!

I think so too.

Curious Me
12-23-2009, 08:23 PM
Many of you say "alot like Scott Peterson" and another case comes to mind "Chris Coleman" because he was very church job involved and ended up killing his wife and two sons. Chris was having an affair, but didn't want to lose his job by getting a divorce...but I never understood why he had to kill those two boys in their beds.

But, Josh didn't kill his sons - he could have rigged the house for carbon monoxide to be done away with his whole family if it was for freedom. Josh's motives seem different than both Scott Peterson's and Chris Coleman's motives.

Josh, so far, doesn't seem to have wanted his freedom to party with a gf (at least, not that we know of yet) I think he killed SUSAN more out of anger, fragile ego issues he had, revenge and resentments that simmered to a boil. Wondering what you all think?

panthera
12-23-2009, 08:28 PM
Personally,I doubt anyone would excuse themselves from company and go lie down just because they were tired... She must have had a wave of something hit her fast....JMO

If my daughters are in town visiting and I'm tired I might excuse myself and go lie down, they are my family, but I doubt I would do that with a friend or an acquaintance who was visiting for a couple of hours...JMO
On the other hand it might have been used as something to try to tell them "it's time for you to go home". MOO

Kimster
12-23-2009, 08:32 PM
My personal opinion is that Josh is a control freak. Perhaps some of that was created by his father as he seems to have been wanting to control Josh's decisions, if reports of what the father has said are true.

Once Josh felt that his wife was going to be out from under his control, he had to go to whatever lengths he could to stop her. If my theory is true, I hope those kids get away from him AND his family and are sent to live with Susan's family.

Religion is just an excuse, as was everything else she did. No matter what she did to please him, he would find another excuse to show her his control over her.

Been there, done that, got the TShirt and then burned it. I'm just thankful I got out of it alive.

Ransom
12-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Many of you say "alot like Scott Peterson" and another case comes to mind "Chris Coleman" because he was very church job involved and ended up killing his wife and two sons. Chris was having an affair, but didn't want to lose his job by getting a divorce...but I never understood why he had to kill those two boys in their beds.

But, Josh didn't kill his sons - he could have rigged the house for carbon monoxide to be done away with his whole family if it was for freedom. Josh's motives seem different than both Scott Peterson's and Chris Coleman's motives.

Josh, so far, doesn't seem to have wanted his freedom to party with a gf (at least, not that we know of yet) I think he killed SUSAN more out of anger, fragile ego issues he had, revenge and resentments that simmered to a boil. Wondering what you all think?

I totally agree. I don't think another woman is involved at all. JMO

mysticrose
12-23-2009, 08:44 PM
Some new info from neighbor Tim Peterson

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

On the day of the Powells' first meeting with the LDS Family Service counselor, she told Peterson about Joshua Powell's controlling behavior, and how he had become more possessive and obsessive since moving to Utah five years ago. She told Peterson she wanted her husband to become active in the LDS Church again and get his temple recommend by their anniversary in 2010, or she was seriously considering divorcing him.

"She went to the marriage counselor hoping it would save their marriage," Peterson said.

But Joshua's behavior showed a lack of caring for Susan's well-being, Peterson said.

One night, Susan called Peterson to ask for a blessing because she was feeling so sick. He called the Elders Quorum president, and the two went to the house. Joshua Powell talked with them for 45 minutes about a computer conference he attended before Susan finally walked into the front room, looking pale and ill, Peterson said.

He asked Susan if she wanted a blessing, and she accepted. Peterson asked Joshua Powell if he wanted to participate, as it was his wife and home. He shrugged his shoulders and said OK, Peterson said.

In the middle of the blessing, the Powells' 4-year-old son, Charlie, climbed on Susan's lap and was pretending to give the blessing, too.

"All Josh could do was laugh at his son," Peterson said. "It was so heartbreaking to see he just didn't care about her needs."

Joshua Powell also became increasingly erratic.

Powell once yelled at the Petersons for taking off their shoes and socks in his home, saying he'd have to spend all night cleaning the floors from the germs on their bare feet.


I do not like the sound of this man at all Josh that is...This is exactly how my ex was. It is like I am having a flash back (shudders) , especially the bare foot thing, my ex was diagnosed with this: psychopathic deviate with hysteria , multiple personality disorder and narcissism.
Seriously...

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 08:49 PM
Does anyone remember the (attempted) news interview that showed Josh walking to, and getting into, his minivan? It was a few days after Susan disappeared, and the authorities had already returned the minivan to Josh.

In the video, all you see is the reporters microphone, and Josh getting into the van (refusing to answer the reporter's questions). It shows Josh buckling his seatbelt.

On the other side of Josh, in the passenger side of the van, it shows another person sitting there- mostly in shadow- but, you can see the person in the passenger side putting on her seatbelt, too.

I'm curious about who this person with Josh is.

panthera
12-23-2009, 08:53 PM
I do not like the sound of this man at all Josh that is...This is exactly how my ex was. It is like I am having a flash back (shudders) , especially the bare foot thing, my ex was diagnosed with this: psychopathic deviate with hysteria , multiple personality disorder and narcissism.
Seriously...
The bare-foot thing with him seems just contrary to what most people would like ~ to not have dirty shoes on the carpet! Normally one wouldn't be thinking of the germs on someone's feet, at least not in my opinion!

SuziQ
12-23-2009, 08:59 PM
Hellewell says there are a couple items she found especially shocking. Local reports stated Susan was “afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys… divorce her or worse." Hellewell says Susan never told her that.

She also said she had never heard of any sort of will with "writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide," or stating "it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone."

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Susan-Powells-best-friend-says-recent-reports/MBlD-1qZiU6rVNfZLj874A.cspx


Well Kiirsi I don't know about it hurting the investigation but I would bet you will be called in a trial for the defense.

I must be way behind or missed alot because I don't remember anyone claiming Susan told Kiirsi these things. So if she didn't hear them Susan must not have said them? Or am I completely remembering things incorrectly? (which is very possible)

lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 09:04 PM
Does anyone remember the (attempted) news interview that showed Josh walking to, and getting into, his minivan? It was a few days after Susan disappeared, and the authorities had already returned the minivan to Josh.

In the video, all you see is the reporters microphone, and Josh getting into the van (refusing to answer the reporter's questions). It shows Josh buckling his seatbelt.

On the other side of Josh, in the passenger side of the van, it shows another person sitting there- mostly in shadow- but, you can see the person in the passenger side putting on her seatbelt, too.

I'm curious about who this person with Josh is.

I also wondered. Think Josh was staying with sister and BIL at that time so figured it must be them.

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 09:04 PM
The bare-foot thing with him seems just contrary to what most people would like ~ to not have dirty shoes on the carpet! Normally one wouldn't be thinking of the germs on someone's feet, at least not in my opinion!
My former in-laws (whom I still love dearly) are like that... it's good to take off your shoes so that you don't track dirt on the carpets, but do not also take off your socks, as you may spread germs and diseases onto the floors.

So many rules, so little time. :crazy:

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2009, 09:06 PM
I must be way behind or missed alot because I don't remember anyone claiming Susan told Kiirsi these things. So if she didn't hear them Susan must not have said them? Or am I completely remembering things incorrectly? (which is very possible)

Right, If Susan didn't tell her then it didn't happen.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 09:07 PM
I must be way behind or missed alot because I don't remember anyone claiming Susan told Kiirsi these things. So if she didn't hear them Susan must not have said them? Or am I completely remembering things incorrectly? (which is very possible)

My take on the latest from Kiirsi is that if Susan didn't tell her, it didn't happen...Susan supposedly told her everything -- so if Kiirsi didn't know about it, it must not be true.

panthera
12-23-2009, 09:09 PM
My former in-laws (whom I still love dearly) are like that... it's good to take off your shoes so that you don't track dirt on the carpets, but do not also take off your socks, as you may spread germs and diseases onto the floors.

So many rules, so little time. :crazy:
We always go barefoot in the house in the warm weather. This time of year though it's fuzzy socks and slippers!! :) I'd still rather have bare feet than dirty shoes though.

panthera
12-23-2009, 09:11 PM
Right, If Susan didn't tell her then it didn't happen.
I figured that out too. Apparently this friend wasn't as close as she'd like to think. MOO

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 09:17 PM
I wish at this point we could do a poll regarding how we think he may have disposed of her body.

1). buried

2). left exposed to the elements (in the woods, for example)

3). burned

4). put in a dumpster

5). tossed/rolled off a cliff or into a ravine

6). put or thrown into a body of water (lake or river)

7). left in a mine shaft or cave

8). chemically destroyed by lime, or similar caustic material

Wow. I didn't realize there were so many possibilities until I just started typing them out. I believe all of these have been mentioned here by WS posters.

This just proves to me what a daunting task the authorities are facing when it comes to searching for her. She could be anywhere.

Unless his hands were damaged by digging his stuck vehicle out of the snow, I think his hands were hurt during the disposal of her body.

fran
12-23-2009, 09:19 PM
I must be way behind or missed alot because I don't remember anyone claiming Susan told Kiirsi these things. So if she didn't hear them Susan must not have said them? Or am I completely remembering things incorrectly? (which is very possible)

It appears that the friends that are turning these emails over to LE want to remain anonymous. I personally think Mr. Peterson may be at least one of them.

JMHO
fran




http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Cell-phone-notes-could-provide-answers-into-Susan/n8xTFRQLOkKihW2iYi34wA.cspx

Cell phone, notes could provide answers into Susan Powell disappearance
Friends and family members are passing along emails and notes from Susan to police. Investigators are working hard to crack this case and are still asking anyone who may know anything in regards to Susan's disappearance to come forward.



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-from-Susan-Powell-told-of-marriage-struggles.html

E-mails from Susan Powell told of marriage struggles

Several of her friends, who wished to remain anonymous, confirmed to the Deseret News that they had turned over to police e-mails that she sent them in June and July of 2008, the point when all friends agreed the Powells' marriage was at its worst.

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 09:24 PM
We always go barefoot in the house in the warm weather. This time of year though it's fuzzy socks and slippers!! :) I'd still rather have bare feet than dirty shoes though.
Oh, Panthera! We should be roommates! (lol!)

I am exactly the same way- barefoot as much as possible (I hate wearing shoes in my own house), and when the weather gets cold, I wear fuzzy socks!

omegagal
12-23-2009, 09:35 PM
I think Kiirsi is well aware of what was going on. LE seems to have first gotten a hold of Kiirsi and I think she's in the "circle of trust". My only conclusion is that LE needs this information to be hush hush for now while they're finishing their investigation. The less that Mister Know It All gets word of the better. In that case, Kiirsi, don't you think Susan was running around with someone else... lol... we know who did it. Now if we can just get the state lab to hustle those results back...

Curious Me
12-23-2009, 09:46 PM
Thanks for explaining that! Now it is even more strange that whatever she ate could've made her ill ~ considering he'd prepared it for her. It kind of reminds me of the Coleman case where the DH (and accused killer) had prepared his family's last meal before (allegedly) killing them. MOO

Yes, I forgot about that last meal Chris Coleman made for his family.

panthera
12-23-2009, 09:48 PM
Oh, Panthera! We should be roommates! (lol!)

I am exactly the same way- barefoot as much as possible (I hate wearing shoes in my own house), and when the weather gets cold, I wear fuzzy socks!
Well, it's cold here at night right now!!! :D As it is cold in Utah, which makes it even more incredible he'd take the kids camping. The good thing though is if Susan's body is out there in the snow, it will be preserved a lot better than if it were summer.

panthera
12-23-2009, 09:50 PM
Yes, I forgot about that last meal Chris Coleman made for his family.
Yes and just reading about JP fixing her dinner reminded me of that detail in the Coleman case. Eerie!

smart blonde
12-23-2009, 09:52 PM
I think Kiirsi is well aware of what was going on. LE seems to have first gotten a hold of Kiirsi and I think she's in the "circle of trust". My only conclusion is that LE needs this information to be hush hush for now while they're finishing their investigation. The less that Mister Know It All gets word of the better. In that case, Kiirsi, don't you think Susan was running around with someone else... lol... we know who did it. Now if we can just get the state lab to hustle those results back...
I think you are right. I'm sure the investigators don't want Josh to panic, and do anything else stupid, while he is in control of those children. Kiirsi may have volunteered to be used for 'damage control'. I hope so.

If Josh realizes that an arrest is imminent, they may be worried that he may harm the boys. Josh seems like he may be the type that feels if he can't raise his boys, no one else can, either.

passionflower
12-23-2009, 09:54 PM
You know, the first time I read the comment below, I wondered "hmmm - how much truth is there to this?"...after all this was soon after the story broke.

I don't wonder any more:

<comment snip>

4:46pm - Wed Dec 09th, 2009

I know this guy all too well. I used to be his neighbor and I think he's a lying cheating conniving little weasel......I'm just saying in general, this is what I think of his character


http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8965718&comments=true

There's also several interesting comments by "John H."

bbm
interesting LYING, CHEATING!!!
how big is Josh anyway? Could he handle a dead woman alone??? 130 lbs???

passionflower
12-23-2009, 10:04 PM
Hellewell says there are a couple items she found especially shocking. Local reports stated Susan was “afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys… divorce her or worse." Hellewell says Susan never told her that.

She also said she had never heard of any sort of will with "writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide," or stating "it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone."

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Susan-Powells-best-friend-says-recent-reports/MBlD-1qZiU6rVNfZLj874A.cspx


Well Kiirsi I don't know about it hurting the investigation but I would bet you will be called in a trial for the defense.

Something tells me that Susan may of not trusted Kiirsi for some reason that she didn't tell her all her SECRETS!

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 10:12 PM
You know Amanda that has bothered me from the start. There was also a point where he had to call the police on Josh but we don't know what it was about. Maybe this is just bad blood letting it all out.

I really do believe though Josh went to the people he felt were messing with his married life after he killed Susan. I think he went to the church that next Sunday and sat there and cried and really was just saying hey I am here and she is not. I think he went to Petersons for the same reason and he went to the Candle Vigil for the same reason, telling the Cox's here I am and she is not. Those are probably the main people he blames for having to kill her.

(bbm) agree doc or as I put it, sadistic pleasure. :(

:parrot:

passionflower
12-23-2009, 10:13 PM
I wish at this point we could do a poll regarding how we think he may have disposed of her body.

1). buried

2). left exposed to the elements (in the woods, for example)

3). burned

4). put in a dumpster

5). tossed/rolled off a cliff or into a ravine

6). put or thrown into a body of water (lake or river)

7). left in a mine shaft or cave

8). chemically destroyed by lime, or similar caustic material

Wow. I didn't realize there were so many possibilities until I just started typing them out. I believe all of these have been mentioned here by WS posters.

This just proves to me what a daunting task the authorities are facing when it comes to searching for her. She could be anywhere.

Unless his hands were damaged by digging his stuck vehicle out of the snow, I think his hands were hurt during the disposal of her body.

BBM my thoughts

kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 10:20 PM
I think you are right. I'm sure the investigators don't want Josh to panic, and do anything else stupid, while he is in control of those children. Kiirsi may have volunteered to be used for 'damage control'. I hope so.

If Josh realizes that an arrest is imminent, they may be worried that he may harm the boys. Josh seems like he may be the type that feels if he can't raise his boys, no one else can, either.

(bbm) ITA his wife's probable homicide was "personal," but so are the boys she'd reportedly told Josh would not stay w their father but go w Susan when she went. The more we hear, the more it's clear--JP is worse than a loose cannon, I can not fathom allowing children to remain with someone so unbalanced or unstable--and that's being euphemistic. JMO

:parrot:

lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 10:21 PM
I think Kiirsi is well aware of what was going on. LE seems to have first gotten a hold of Kiirsi and I think she's in the "circle of trust". My only conclusion is that LE needs this information to be hush hush for now while they're finishing their investigation. The less that Mister Know It All gets word of the better. In that case, Kiirsi, don't you think Susan was running around with someone else... lol... we know who did it. Now if we can just get the state lab to hustle those results back...

I think you nailed it Omega. Hate to put us females in a sterotypical light, but let's face it--women confide in one another. Your best friend becomes that for a reason, it's someone you can share anything with--good or bad. Female best friends are far more likely to share much more personal info than male best friends on average. (from Psych books, and my personal experience) Am of the thought that team Kiirsi and team Cox are one and the same.

Texas Mist
12-23-2009, 10:23 PM
Something tells me that Susan may of not trusted Kiirsi for some reason that she didn't tell her all her SECRETS!

And on Sunday, Josh called the Hellewells to get directions to Susan's vigil & to find someone to pet sit his birds....he must be talking to them for some reason, even if it's purely self-centered reasons -- he was comfortable enough to call them.

I sense they have not pushed him too hard for information or failed to show pity for him....JMOOOC.

sunflowerchick
12-23-2009, 10:37 PM
Does anyone know what kinds of birds Josh had? Are they of the talking kind? I am not really sure where I am going with that, but I have heard of large exotic birds repeating fights or things said. Hey, stranger things have happened... Just thinking out loud.

panthera
12-23-2009, 10:42 PM
Does anyone know what kinds of birds Josh had? Are they of the talking kind? I am not really sure where I am going with that, but I have heard of large exotic birds repeating fights or things said. Hey, stranger things have happened... Just thinking out loud.
Oh wouldn't that just be so perfect if they spilled the beans!! :D

angeleleven
12-23-2009, 10:42 PM
Does anyone know what kinds of birds Josh had? Are they of the talking kind? I am not really sure where I am going with that, but I have heard of large exotic birds repeating fights or things said. Hey, stranger things have happened... Just thinking out loud.

I was just thinking the same thing when I read that post.

LogicalMinds
12-24-2009, 12:04 AM
Let's not forget that "Kirsti" had a glowing review of super duper real estate agent on his childish little website LOL

Maybe she was not such a "close" friend when Susan was really in need....seems like Susan may have confided in her neighbors more??

as for JoVanna....maybe Susan said she needed to lie down to get away from her?? I might do that myself

in the end...this is going to come down to :Susan had told Josh it was over, new year, new deal...wanted a divorce

little man flipped out

the rest is just the details which will eventually be revealed I do hope

DomCasual
12-24-2009, 12:15 AM
Let's not forget that "Kirsti" had a glowing review of super duper real estate agent on his childish little website LOL

Maybe she was not such a "close" friend when Susan was really in need....seems like Susan may have confided in her neighbors more??

as for JoVanna....maybe Susan said she needed to lie down to get away from her?? I might do that myself

in the end...this is going to come down to :Susan had told Josh it was over, new year, new deal...wanted a divorce

little man flipped out

the rest is just the details which will eventually be revealed I do hope

It cracks me up how you keep ripping on his websites. I bet he would be SO offended by that! For a person like Josh, saying he's not good at something like that probably hurts worse than being called a wife-murderer - just a blow to his fragile ego! :)

Man, how awesome would it be if he was lurking here, reading the unpleasantries being tossed around about him!

Lipin One
12-24-2009, 12:49 AM
From the Tribune: " One night in September, Susan called Peterson to ask for a blessing because she was feeling so sick. He called the Elders Quorum president, and the two went to the house. Joshua Powell talked with them for 45 minutes about a computer conference he attended before Susan finally walked into the front room, looking pale and ill, Peterson said.

He asked Susan if she wanted a blessing, and she accepted. Peterson asked Joshua Powell if he wanted to participate, as it was his wife and home. He shrugged his shoulders and said OK, Peterson said.

In the middle of the blessing, the Powells' 4-year-old son, Charlie, climbed onto Susan's lap and was pretending to give the blessing, too.

"All Josh could do was laugh at his son," Peterson said. "It was so heartbreaking to see he just didn't care about her needs." "

Does being pale and ill in September suggest slow metal poisoning, since she was ill the night she "disappeared"?

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

Texas Mist
12-24-2009, 01:53 AM
you know, I got to thinking about Susan being sick & calling for someone to come give her blessings...maybe she wanted to go to the doctor, too -- but tight-azz Joshy wouldn't let her -- or he raged so badly over it, she just decided to tough it out....and it's not like she had her own vehicle & could just go where she wanted when she wanted. :(

He sounds so much like my ex -- even a $20 co-pay could set him off! :mad:

Kimster
12-24-2009, 01:58 AM
you know, I got to thinking about Susan being sick & calling for someone to come give her blessings...maybe she wanted to go to the doctor, too -- but tight-azz Joshy wouldn't let her -- or he raged so badly over it, she just decided to tough it out....and it's not like she had her own vehicle & could just go where she wanted when she wanted. :(

He sounds so much like my ex -- even a $20 co-pay could set him off! :mad:

I just want to hear that he's been arrested. Every time someone posts in here, I come rushing over to see if it is the good news. We need a perp walk!

agathawannabe
12-24-2009, 05:06 AM
you know, I got to thinking about Susan being sick & calling for someone to come give her blessings...maybe she wanted to go to the doctor, too -- but tight-azz Joshy wouldn't let her -- or he raged so badly over it, she just decided to tough it out....and it's not like she had her own vehicle & could just go where she wanted when she wanted. :(

He sounds so much like my ex -- even a $20 co-pay could set him off! :mad:

IF JP was poisoning Susan, he certainly did not want her seeing a doctor.

And if he wasn't, you've probably nailed the situation, TM.

nervous_nellie
12-24-2009, 09:04 AM
Let's not forget that "Kirsti" had a glowing review of super duper real estate agent on his childish little website LOL

Maybe she was not such a "close" friend when Susan was really in need....seems like Susan may have confided in her neighbors more??

as for JoVanna....maybe Susan said she needed to lie down to get away from her?? I might do that myself

in the end...this is going to come down to :Susan had told Josh it was over, new year, new deal...wanted a divorce

little man flipped out

the rest is just the details which will eventually be revealed I do hope


i pretty much agree with your summation of "in the end" and you could be right about jovanna, or at least i must admit that i could have played sick too so someone would get a hint and leave :blushing: but the kiirsi part im not so sure about, im sorta thinkin that since she didnt tell her family about the threats etc. either, most likely because she didnt want them to worry or over-react. i bet it may be the same deal with kiirsi...as far as writing the glowing review, well, i know a few of my friends did stupid stuff trying to keep my ex off my azz...and just because kiirsi is saying that she didnt tell le that doesnt mean that she didnt.... :twocents:

sniperacer
12-24-2009, 10:04 AM
wow! Thanks Dom and Sunflower for that good information. I do happen to believe that religion has a lot to do with what happened to susan.

OK, since many believe this is about religion, here is my question.

Why would Susan make the alleged ultimatum about getting back into the LDS religion? Why is this so important as to be a marriage deal breaker?

Vegas Bride
12-24-2009, 10:08 AM
Didn't JoVanna say that it was Josh who invited her to stay for supper?
I'm wondering why he would be wanting her to stick around, you'd think if he was up to something then he'd not want outsiders hanging around. Did he want her there so she could be a witness to just how loving and caring he is, fixing a meal, bringing a blanket etc.
If Josh was smart enough to put on a show that night, then why not continue the charade and act half-way concerned after hearing his wife was missing?

VB

sniperacer
12-24-2009, 10:08 AM
Wow, I am so getting in over my head with this religion thing, lol. I don't want to get into any debates, and I don't know what is allowed, but in the LDS Church, men of a certain age are given the priesthood, which entitles them to do certain things in the church, i.e. holding positions, ministering to the sick, etc. This is entirely separate from a temple recommend, although as a man, you would need to be a valid priesthood holder in order to get a recommend. There are different levels of the priesthood based on age and worthiness.

As a woman in the Church, you would expect your husband to hold the priesthood, to be the "head of the household", and to be able to lead the family in the church doctrines. This would have been huge for Susan I think because she believed in the faith, and I believe that this really could have been a large issue between them.

Based on my own experiences, when you grow up in the church or believe in the church, you expect certain things from your significant other, and when that doesn't happen, it is definitely grounds for ending the relationship.

Humm, I guess this (BBM) is the best answer. She clearly chose religion over marriage? Just trying to understand the family dynamics.

sniperacer
12-24-2009, 10:21 AM
That could also be true. She also could've been very hesitant about leaving her husband being how the church views marriage and family, and thought somehow things would work out. MOO

How does the church view marriage and family? Short answers please.

nervous_nellie
12-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Humm, I guess this (BBM) is the best answer. She clearly chose religion over marriage? Just trying to understand the family dynamics.


i think it was more of her wanting josh to get his priorities organized properly... i guess that in theory if you are living the right way and are worthy of the temple recommend then he would also be treating her & the boys much better. i dont think she was "choosing" religion over josh, i think she was trying to get josh to choose religion. after all they met at an LDS function and he passed himself off as LDS and then proceeded to live/behave non-LDS. and if he is anywhere nearly as bad as we have heard about him - im sure she was getting desperate for josh to embrace any positive element....

eta:
i mean living the "right way" as CHOOSING not to abuse your wife in ANY way, holding down steady employment, not spending money that you do not have etc. in reality it really doesnt have much to do with LDS as many many people live the "right" way.

also it sounds like susan thought that josh could choose not to be abusive anymore and unfortunately for her that was not the case. :(

LogicalMinds
12-24-2009, 10:29 AM
Well...from what I have read....the Man enters his own "heaven" and brings the woman with him...for women in LDS, the key to getting to heaven is thru a man

although they are NOT polygamous here on earth, in each "individual" heaven, each run by a man/king they would/would have other women as women whose earthly hubbies are not LDS, or not in "good standing", would have to be brought thru to heaven by another man

so without Josh, Susan had to be thinking about finding a "good" guy to take her to heaven in the long run

in the short term?? I am sure that she just wanted someone compatable...to go to Church with her since that was important....to support her efforts and join in the companionship of the church functions

and the boys?? Yes, probably to be a role model for the boys

I can imagine that anyone who is devoted to a religion is going to have problems when a spouse is not participating or even belittling their faith and choices

To me the LDS, seems to work great for those who believe in it, and are into it...you don't see many Mormans married to people in other faith...not many "mixed religion marriages"

LogicalMinds
12-24-2009, 10:34 AM
Didn't JoVanna say that it was Josh who invited her to stay for supper?
I'm wondering why he would be wanting her to stick around, you'd think if he was up to something then he'd not want outsiders hanging around. Did he want her there so she could be a witness to just how loving and caring he is, fixing a meal, bringing a blanket etc.
If Josh was smart enough to put on a show that night, then why not continue the charade and act half-way concerned after hearing his wife was missing?

VB

It COULD be the other way around...Josh might have wanted JoVanna as a "buffer"...to forestall a confrontation with Susan

I personally think that Susan had decided to tell him that it was over, divorce time...new year, new plan , divorce

and Josh wanted to stop this...JoVanna..acting caring etc...held off the ultimatum...I think Susan went to bed to get rid of JoVanna and confront Josh

and he flipped

I really would love to hear what "new job" (did it even exist?) he was due to start the next day
would also love to hear where /when he really worked in the past few years, what he made

I think Susan was fed up and done with him...unfortunately, like so many other tragic women before her, she made the mistake of telling him that when they were alone, with no plan/family/friends around her to buffer it

Lipin One
12-24-2009, 11:07 AM
Ok, so wind-blown hands happen because of prolonged exposure to windy and cold conditions.

Did the kids have ANY cold-related injury? It hasn't been mentioned anywhere, so it's safe to assume that the answer is no.

I think it's also safe to assume that Kids skin is more sensitive to cold than adult skin.

So, the kids were not 100% with Josh during the time they were "missing" on December 6th/7th.

Did he leave them inside the van while he disposed of the mother's body? Did he leave them with someone? A relative or friend, or in a place he thought they would be safe?

I doubt that he would leave them in the van and venture out on the wilderness in fear the car engine may shut down and the kids would be left without warmth from the heater...

...unless he didn't venture too far from the van. In that case he didn't stay out long enough to get wind-blown hands.

So, he left the kids somewhere else as he did his deed.

He either carried the body (maybe hauled on a sled... thus the excuse of having a sled in the van... AKA: sledding trip, etc...) or buried it.

That would've exposed the back of his hands more than any part of his body, if his face was covered. Though his nose shows red in some pictures, but that could be because he had been crying.

Just my musing...
:)

CCup
12-24-2009, 11:12 AM
I just keep thinking he had to stop somewhere in his travels that night. Those boys had to go to the bathroom or need a diaper change at some point.

lemonmoussetart
12-24-2009, 11:15 AM
I just keep thinking he had to stop somewhere in his travels that night. Those boys had to go to the bathroom or need a diaper change at some point.

so true, not to mention of couple of gas stops

KaylynnCouture
12-24-2009, 11:20 AM
Humm, I guess this (BBM) is the best answer. She clearly chose religion over marriage? Just trying to understand the family dynamics.

In LDS homes, a lot of times if your husband or spouse isn't an active LDS follower/church member, the other spouse won't back down on the religious beliefs and therefore, it looks like they're choosing religion over marriage. It's common, if the family dynamic is one such as between Susan and her husband.

lonetraveler
12-24-2009, 11:24 AM
Oh, Panthera! We should be roommates! (lol!)

I am exactly the same way- barefoot as much as possible (I hate wearing shoes in my own house), and when the weather gets cold, I wear fuzzy socks!

LOL, I'm actually wearing fuzzy socks with my flipflops right now. I fight having to wear real shoes every year. I think I need to live in the tropics.

lonetraveler
12-24-2009, 11:29 AM
Did Susan carpool to work or did Josh have to take her and then pick her up at the end of the day? Or was Josh (reportedly starting a new job) suppose to be dropped off at his new job and picked up by Susan since there was only one vehicle?

LogicalMinds
12-24-2009, 11:32 AM
Just common sense tells us that the more "strict" , structured, a religion is , the more that people will insist that a spouse be involved, and that they won't want to marry outside the religion'


which is why you don't see many "Muslims" married to non muslims ...

I live in South Florida and I know a fair amount of "mixed" marriages, Jewish and Protestant, Jewish and Catholic...BUT the Jewish people are/were "reform" NOT Orthodox...you don't see the Orthodox Jews with the beards and the long skirts marrying out of their religion

same goes with Amish....devout "born again" Christians...and so on


people who are not involved with their religion totally can be quite compatable...like a Jewish person who goes to Temple on High Holy days married to a Christian who goes to church for Christmas Mass and Easter....they can have a Hannaka bush and a Christmas tree and be open minded

I don't think that many Mormons marry outside their faith and still remain active in it...their big deal is to marry in the Temple right??

Vegas Bride
12-24-2009, 11:55 AM
My dh's aunt who was raised catholic married a mormon, she also became mormon and their children were raised mormon. I don't know if there was an understanding between them before marriage that she would convert or not, they both were very active in their local stake.

VB

KaylynnCouture
12-24-2009, 11:57 AM
Just common sense tells us that the more "strict" , structured, a religion is , the more that people will insist that a spouse be involved, and that they won't want to marry outside the religion'


which is why you don't see many "Muslims" married to non muslims ...

I live in South Florida and I know a fair amount of "mixed" marriages, Jewish and Protestant, Jewish and Catholic...BUT the Jewish people are/were "reform" NOT Orthodox...you don't see the Orthodox Jews with the beards and the long skirts marrying out of their religion

same goes with Amish....devout "born again" Christians...and so on


people who are not involved with their religion totally can be quite compatable...like a Jewish person who goes to Temple on High Holy days married to a Christian who goes to church for Christmas Mass and Easter....they can have a Hannaka bush and a Christmas tree and be open minded

I don't think that many Mormons marry outside their faith and still remain active in it...their big deal is to marry in the Temple right??

Most LDS marry other LDS members, but that doesn't always mean the men/women they marry are active LDS, or devout LDS followers. I know some LDS that are married to other Christians, but not necessarily of the LDS faith. It just all varies.

Most LDS don't get married in the Temple. They get sealed in the Temple. Sealing is essentially a practice that seals two people together for eternity. Some LDS members get married, but don't get sealed, it all depends on how active they are in the church and how important it is to them.

Fairy1
12-24-2009, 12:02 PM
OK, since many believe this is about religion, here is my question.

Why would Susan make the alleged ultimatum about getting back into the LDS religion? Why is this so important as to be a marriage deal breaker?

The fact that they met at church and were married in the temple tells me that Josh and Susan entered their marriage on equal religious footing. Seems somewhere along the way, Josh changed the rules. Whereas, once they had children and moved away from Susan's family, her ties to the church most likely became even more important to her. I would think even moreso once Josh's controlling and abusive behavior became more prevelent.

LogicalMinds
12-24-2009, 12:20 PM
Most LDS marry other LDS members, but that doesn't always mean the men/women they marry are active LDS, or devout LDS followers. I know some LDS that are married to other Christians, but not necessarily of the LDS faith. It just all varies.

Most LDS don't get married in the Temple. They get sealed in the Temple. Sealing is essentially a practice that seals two people together for eternity. Some LDS members get married, but don't get sealed, it all depends on how active they are in the church and how important it is to them.

Thanks...:)

I would venture to guess that some Mormons are not as religious or involved, just as people of other faiths are more (or less) involved

My own grandparents were all from the "old country">> 3 from Ireland, 1 from Wales

My Dad's family were rabid Irish Catholics...my grandmother's sister was a nun, one of her daughters became a nun (*my aunt)...her sister "cared" for 8 priests and they had a priest to dinner every Sunday, they did novenas, retreats....had "holy water" fonts in their home, pictures, statues of saints, wore scapulars (put them on me)!!

My Mom's parents met in Liverpool...when her Welsh mom was in Nursing school and her Irish dad hurt his hand at a factory ...their marriage was opposed by both families, in Wales and Ireland..and considered a "mixed" marriage !! Catholic and Methodist....they were eventually married in BOTH churches and I think they came to US to get away from the inlaws LOL

My mom was raised Catholic...but much less strict...her father went to Mass a few times a year...her Mom was still Methodist but not too involved...so I think that it just depends

I can NOT imagine my dad's (devoted) mother married to a NON Catholic or even a Catholic that she could not have made go to Mass every week (she herself went daily)

So I am familiar with families and religious "differences">> not to mention that in my motley crue of a family we later had Jehovah's witnesses, Christian Scientest, I have a 2nd cousin who is a devoted Scientologist and lives in Clearwater, works for them (and yes I avoid him too as he is always trying to get me "clear" LOL)

let's just say I have a lot of relatives I avoid as they might try to foist some literature/lectures on me LOL

and the more "devout" they are, the less likely they are to marry other religions

I also have a 2nd (Cradle Catholic) cousin in NY who is happily married to a Jewish guy for years and I think they let their kids "decide" not sure if they "decided" on much or ??

I still think the more "devout" and involved a person is, the more they want their spouse to share that

In Susan's case, she met Josh and he presented himself as a Mormon, and I think she later felt betrayed , not to mention he was obviously a lousy husband, a liar, a mooch, a n'er do well...and control freak

oh yeah...and a crummy web designer haha :)

mayelf
12-24-2009, 12:30 PM
Just because someone is the best friend of someone, it doesn't mean they are going to be told the "embarrassing" facts about their lives.

Personal experience - I never once told my friends about abusive things that were done to me. I wanted them to see I had a good life too. However when one of my friends figured it out, my ex decided he hated her and her child that I babysat. He would say the most cruel things to her child. But I still didn't confide in her with anything.

So I just don't think that just because her "best friend" doesn't know if there was emotional abuse in the house or that she was planning to leave, doesn't mean there wasn't.