View Full Version : UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #4
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:32 AM
please continue here
thread three link:
UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City; thread #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
link to thread two:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=1#post4577209 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4577209&posted=1#post4577209)
thread one in this case:
UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community" target="_blank">UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
AmandaReckonwith's photobucket of the case: http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...usan%20Powell/ (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Powell/)
fran's post on what we have so far:
UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City - Page 30 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community" target="_blank">UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City - Page 30 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Susan's face book:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/g...d=198478842187 (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=198478842187)
PattyG's family presser video:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City; thread # 2
PattyG's exhaustive youtube site with all of her case videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947 (http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947)
note: fran's post link is one of the older ones... I will update it as soon as I find it
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:47 AM
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14042094&PageIndex=7
link to the comment everyone was talking about... on page seven of the comments at 1156
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:50 AM
most recent Fran list I have found so far:
---------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by fran
Things are mounting up.............anyone else?
.......REASONS TO SUSPECT HUSBAND OR QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED, BEFORE HUSBAND CAN BE ELIMINATED AS A POI
fran
1. Husband not the one who reported victim missing.
2. Husband had 'odd' alibi, ie going camping in sub-zero temperartures, late at night, leaving sick wife home alone in bed, and taking two toddlers, pre five yo's into the freezing winter night.
3. Change of story details, here and there or becoming evasive.
4. Avoiding media contact. The few times media managed to get a statement. He cut them off when they asked detailed questions about camping location. His excuse was "I have to get my boys." IMHO, he's using the boys as a shield.
5. Avoiding media questions, ie "Is that where you went camping?" to which he replies, "I have to pick up my boys."
6. Avoids wife-victim's family.
7. Stops talking to LE
8. Concerned with 'his house.'
9. Speaks of victim in 'past-tense.'
10. Speaks of 'buying new clothes and comforter.'
11. Unexplained 'wet spot' in carpeting and 'fans being used to dry.'
12. Gradual release of 'friends and family' speaking of marital problems.
13. Alleged from 'friends' of husband having control issues, which included control of wife ie victim.
14. Alleged from 'friends' of 'verbal abuse' by husband of victim.
15. Alleged statement by one of the children (ok, possibly rumor) "Daddy said mommy stayed in the woods for awhile."
16. Spoke to neighbor about 'hope his bird isn't dead' but didn't talk about his missing wife.
17. Testing generator late at night on camping trip
18. Sledding in the dark? (Locals, is there a place in that area to go sledding in the dark? He told friend he was taking boys sledding, that was at 5:00p.m. and he was seen returning home at 8:30p.m.)
19. Near frost bitten hands.
20. Just the sheer distance of the alleged camp site (3 or 4 hours drive)
21. NOT one sign of husband camping where he said he was.
22. Just plain talking about 'himself,' rather than his missing wife!!!!!!!!
23. No sign of forced entry of home.
24. Friends and neighbors said it was unusual for Josh to suddenly go camping late at night with the children in the freezing weather.
25. Periodic money problems including a past bankruptcy.
26. Joshy tells his FIL the last time he saw Susan was at 12:30, but didn't bother to tell him what a great time was had by all at the wee-hours-of-the-nite-camping-in-subzero-temps-and-snowstorm-in-the-desert outing.
(from Texas Mist)
27. Left sick wife alone, never to check on her and she had NO CAR to go to doctor! (from member passionflower)
28. Wife had gone to bed sick with an ear-ache which meant she most likely had a cold. Yet, husband made her walk home from church in freezing weather, (they only had one car)
29. Susan's friend had spoken to her on Sunday and friend said Susan wasn't sick.
30. Husband said wife sick but she went to bed at 12:30 a.m.
31. Husband said he forgot it was Sunday but he also said he saw last saw Susan at 12:30 a.m. when she went to bed and he was leaving for camping with the kids. She would have reminded him it was Monday and not Sat nite/Sunday a.m. "Got his days mixed up, thought it was Sunday" yet he neither attends church nor allows for boys to go.
32. Susan told co-workers she was physically fearful of her husband.
33. Co-workers say Susan took precautions in case 'anything' happened to her.
34. Josh's BIL stated when asked if he believes Josh had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, "I pray Josh isn't responisble."
35. Susan't friends knowledge of Powell marriage............SEVERAL advised Susan to leave her husband.
36. Susan's family paid for her to have a cell phone in case she was in trouble.
37. police have mentioned they would possibly like to have Josh take LDT: so far it has not been reported he has taken one to clear his name
38. Disappeared for 24 hours with rental car, AFTER Susan went missing. hundreds of miles were put on the car. There was no gps on the rental car
39. Local reporter said that at alleged camping location, you need to travel approximately 20 miles on unpaved road. It was storming. {suspicious}
40. When talking about spur of the moment camping trip with boys, Josh said they '.....liked to have smores in the morning.'
41. Wife's cellphone, purse and belongings LEFT BEHIND...
42. Josh skips town on Dec 18/19 (Fri/Sat) attorney says to spend holidays in Washington with father and step mom.
43. Sunday 2 weeks after Susan disappeared, Josh whereabouts unknown.
Has sons with him....note: husband has shown up in Washington State and attended a candle light vigil for Susan,.............NO comment to the media
44. First time LE contacted husband as at first the entire family was thought missing, Josh hung up on LE.
45. Statements by friends that Josh resented Susan's dedication to her church. (Also indications that Josh was being encouraged of his distaste for the church by his own father)
46. While at the candle light vigil in Washington, Josh was only 15 feet from Susan's parents, yet he didn't even acknowledge them.
47. Josh completely controlled Susan's spending. He told her how much she had to spend at the grocery store and what she could and couldn't buy as far as groceries or anything else was concerned.
48. LE said Josh is hindering the investigation.
49. It's not JUST that Josh left town while everyone is trying to look for his missing wife. He did NOT tell LE he was leaving or where he would be, in case his wife returned or she was found!
*Blue are added as the case developes and Websleuthers mention them
REASONS NOT TO LOOK TOWARDS HUSBAND
1. Josh said he didn't harm Susan.
2. Josh's dad said to stop "villifying" JP, he didn't harm his wife.
3. Josh's lawyer said Josh is not hindering investigation.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:52 AM
I add to this list that two days after susan goes missing josh rents a car and puts hundreds of miles on it. wonder how long he had the car? I would think it was only for a day or so as he got his van back after three days. We will have to go back and find that media article where his neighbor describes taking him to pick up the car from LE... and what day it was. I am thinking he put hundreds of miles on it in a very short period of time. Very Scott Peterson isn't it?????
passionflower
12-22-2009, 11:55 AM
Josh was so worried that his bird was dead that first night.
Yet he left it behind.
I saw in a video of men taking it out of the house with a blanket around the large cage.
Exotic birds need allot of care and live a long time.
Cold is an enemy to them.
Wonder if Josh is worried about the bird now?
another 'possession' to him?
Patty G
12-22-2009, 11:56 AM
#37 in the list, did he really refuse to take a lie detector test? I must of missed that in the news. :(
passionflower
12-22-2009, 11:59 AM
I add to this list that two days after susan goes missing josh rents a car and puts hundreds of miles on it. wonder how long he had the car? I would think it was only for a day or so as he got his van back after three days. We will have to go back and find that media article where his neighbor describes taking him to pick up the car from LE... and what day it was. I am thinking he put hundreds of miles on it in a very short period of time. Very Scott Peterson isn't it?????
IMO, he went back to where he dumped Susan to make sure no one could see her in the day light.
Boy I wish someone was tracking him from afar!!!!
Hope LE was on to this! and just not saying.
Personally I do not see a confession coming from Josh.
He thinks he has out smarted the LE.
Has FBI been brought in like in a kidnapping?
I guess no crime has really been proven yet til evidence
comes back from rug, hair, etc.
Texas Mist
12-22-2009, 12:00 PM
here's a link to Angel Who Cares post from last nite w/ *many* links to articles & vids related to this case
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City; thread #3
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:00 PM
#37 in the list, did he really refuse to take a lie detector test? I must of missed that in the news. :(
yes, IIRC it was through his lawyer
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:01 PM
Nurse was the timeline brought over?
Texas Mist
12-22-2009, 12:04 PM
Josh was so worried that his bird was dead that first night.
Yet he left it behind.
I saw in a video of men taking it out of the house with a blanket around the large cage.
Exotic birds need allot of care and live a long time.
Cold is an enemy to them.
Wonder if Josh is worried about the bird now?
another 'possession' to him?
I read last nite that he called a neighbor, John H. to retrieve the bird..
John Hellewell who is a neighbor of the Powell's found out about the trip Sunday when Josh called him. His first concern was to find someone to "pet sit" his birds. "
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Josh-Powells-Washington-trip-raises-eyebrows/YMht8xWvVkideITAGsTQ3g.cspx
Patty G
12-22-2009, 12:04 PM
yes, IIRC it was through his lawyer
Thanks, I will search out the link.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:06 PM
Timeline so far, please add:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City; thread #3
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:07 PM
Thanks, I will search out the link.
IIRC it was the day he should of gone in 3rd time he dismissed the LE and got lawyer.
around Dec 14th........
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:11 PM
I read last nite that he called a neighbor, John H. to retrieve the bird..
John Hellewell who is a neighbor of the Powell's found out about the trip Sunday when Josh called him. His first concern was to find someone to "pet sit" his birds. "
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Josh-Powells-Washington-trip-raises-eyebrows/YMht8xWvVkideITAGsTQ3g.cspx
ha, more than 1 bird........does JP even know he has 'birds' instead of 'bird' that night! JP probably never took care of them, Susan probably did.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:15 PM
#3 is not closed.........we still have members posting there!
We lost our group!
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 12:18 PM
I messaged a mod.... hopefuly someone will close it soon...
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:24 PM
Timeline
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did anyone put a timeline on this last 2 weeks?
Maybe we could put one together. TIA
I'm looking over my notes. But need help........
anyone have the timeline better than I have? PLEASE add
Sunday, December 6, 2009
Susan went to church, walked home with friends.
JP made pancakes and eggs for supper, rarely cooked.
Friend was over to help Susan with crocheting project.
Friend left at 5 pm.
JP took sons sledding in dark at 5:30pm.
Neighbor saw JP come home at 8:30pm
Neighbor heard JP's van's security going off in garage at 11:45pm.
Monday, Dec 7, 2009
JP left for a camping trip at 12:30 am Monday morning with sons.
JP and Susan do not show up for work.
Sons are not at babysitters.
Relatives are called.
Concerned relatives call LE, who break a window for wellness search.
Friend calls JP cell phone at 3pm
Another friend contacts JP by cell phone at 4pm.
JP arrives home at 5pm.
Tuesday, December 8th
JP calls Susan's dad and tells him Susan is missing.
LE takes van.
JP rents a car and leaves for 24 hours.
Wednesday, December 9th
JP comes back home?
Did he take sons for 24 hours?
Where was he?
Police spent two hours removing items from the Powell home.
Police say Josh Powell is not a suspect at this time
Thursday, December 10
Police searched the Simpson Spring Recreation Area and found no sign of Josh Powell's campsite.
Josh Powell speaks briefly with reporters
Friday, December 11
Police stil have no arrests and said Josh Powell is a person of interest
Saturday, December 12:
Susan Powell's father, Charles Cox, traveled to Utah to help search for his daughter.
Josh Powell's family held a press conference and Josh Powell stands silenty with them.
Community members pass out fliers with pictures of Susan Powell.
Sunday, December 13, 2009
1 week Susan is gone.
Monday, December 14:
Josh Powell retains attorney.
JP does not show up to talk with LE.
Skips 3rd interview with LE
Wednesday, December 16,2009
LE takes DNA of Josh Powell.
Search home during a prayer vigil.
LE finds JOURNAL of Susan's at work
Friday/Sat, December 18/19
Josh on the run to Washington?
Saturday, December 19, 2009
ABC subpeoned for video tapes.
All news agencies asked not to destroy video tapes.
Sunday, December 20,2009
2 weeks Susan is gone.
World wide prayer vigil at 8:30pm.
JP and son show up unexpectedly to Susan's vigil.
they stand 15 feet away from Cox family and are silent.
JP talked to 1 sister for a moment Diane?
Suppose to of said he would talk to her later.
JP and sons staying in Steve Powell's house in a GATED
community.
Steve Powell father of Josh defends son in interview.
John Hellewell who is a neighbor of the Powell's found out about the trip Sunday when Josh called him. His first concern was to find someone to "pet sit" his birds.
__________________
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 12:28 PM
if he was asked to take a poly and it has not been taken... I guess someone refused beit him or his atty.
I am sure the atty would not find it in his best interest.
Great digging that up PattyG!
Sorry guys I have not gotten a chance to watch any video from the latest candlelight vigil and I am slightly confused. Did Josh bring the 4 year old to the last vigil?
Patty G
12-22-2009, 12:31 PM
if he was asked to take a poly and it has not been taken... I guess someone refused beit him or his atty.
I am sure the atty would not find it in his best interest.
Great digging that up PattyG!
Thanks.
My concern though is that WS is indicating "refusal" and we really need to back that one up. Hopefully the link will be found so we can add the link to #37 on the list. If we can't find it then #37 needs to disappear.
ETA: I would love to see links for all the items in the list. But that is just me.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:33 PM
Sorry guys I have not gotten a chance to watch any video from the latest candlelight vigil and I am slightly confused. Did Josh bring the 4 year old to the last vigil?
Yes and was surrounded by his own group with umbrellas to keep from media???
passionflower
12-22-2009, 12:35 PM
Thanks.
My concern though is that WS is indicating "refusal" and we really need to back that one up. Hopefully the link will be found so we can add the link to #37 on the list. If we can't find it then #37 needs to disappear.
can it just be reworded? to something like JP hasn't taken a LDT ...........
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 12:36 PM
Josh was so worried that his bird was dead that first night.
Yet he left it behind.
I saw in a video of men taking it out of the house with a blanket around the large cage.
Exotic birds need allot of care and live a long time.
Cold is an enemy to them.
Wonder if Josh is worried about the bird now?
another 'possession' to him?
i have parrots too and have had to move in the middle of winter. a quick move they can handle as long at they are covered well. but your correct in that they do live many, many years and require regular consistent feeding (like any pet) i just dont see jp capable of nurturing ANYTHING, humans included. i just hope someone else is caring for the birds and his boys too.
Taminator
12-22-2009, 12:37 PM
Josh was so worried that his bird was dead that first night.
Yet he left it behind.
I saw in a video of men taking it out of the house with a blanket around the large cage.
Exotic birds need allot of care and live a long time.
Cold is an enemy to them.
Wonder if Josh is worried about the bird now?
another 'possession' to him?
Maybe he's worried the bird will start talking to LE.....:hen:
Patty G
12-22-2009, 12:44 PM
can it just be reworded? to something like JP hasn't taken a LDT ...........
Did you read this article about the lawyer indicating this? If you did, can you find the article that indicates this and that would solve the problem.
omegagal
12-22-2009, 12:44 PM
Curious Me... I know in the case of a religious woman, she will first go to her church leadership. If a church leader even suspected that there is a control issue in the marriage, red flags should be going off. Because that's what abuse is - it's control. At that point a professional counselor (LPC or LCSW) with training in the abuse cycle would be able to counsel a woman to help bring up her self esteem, develop trust and help her to make positive decisions in the relationship. It does not have to be a DV counselor. It can start with a call to the National Domestic Violence Hotline for resources or to a friend at church, a parent. We need to be more educated as to what these red flags are. BYU Women's center put together a program where they are encouraging students to recognize abusive controlling behavior in others and speaking up against it. They even did an organized 5k race in September to bring awareness. IMHO, it has to be a combination of education among ourselves and our children and a professional approach of educating our church leaders.
Here's a link to BYU's Voices of Courage:
http://wsr.byu.edu/content/voices-courage
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 12:53 PM
lol about the bird talking Taminator!!!!
I think the correct wording for the poly would be that police are considering asking him to take one or would like for him to take one
LadyBug99
12-22-2009, 12:57 PM
I add to this list that two days after susan goes missing josh rents a car and puts hundreds of miles on it. wonder how long he had the car? I would think it was only for a day or so as he got his van back after three days. We will have to go back and find that media article where his neighbor describes taking him to pick up the car from LE... and what day it was. I am thinking he put hundreds of miles on it in a very short period of time. Very Scott Peterson isn't it?????
He had the rental car for 24 hours and put hundreds of miles on it.
Dr.Fessel
12-22-2009, 12:57 PM
They have asked him and he has refused. The police say he has only given vague answers to question. To take a polygraph you have to answer yes and no questions. Yes and no are not vague.
omegagal
12-22-2009, 12:59 PM
Did you read this article about the lawyer indicating this? If you did, can you find the article that indicates this and that would solve the problem.
I remember seeing it in a video with the police captain Tom McLachlan. He said they had asked for Josh to come in for further questioning and to take a polygraph but it was refused by his attorney. Look in one of the videos since Joshy retained Scott Williams.
Taminator
12-22-2009, 01:03 PM
Refusing to take a polygraph, whether it's admissible or not, is a pretty big deal. Worthy of at least a couple headlines, I would think. Just sayin'.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 01:03 PM
Maybe he's worried the bird will start talking to LE.....:hen:
as funny as this sounds it is realistic behavior of a lot of parrots...depending on which kind you may be dealing with. african gray parrots are the absolute best in mimicking human speech, moo. and they are very very smart. they will repeat words, phrases and "situations" and they dont just repeat it in their bird voice, they will actually sound much like the person who said the phrase. ie my mil has a gray that i heard 'replaying' a phone conversation and i thought it was my mil until i looked and it was the bird. and most parrots have speech abilities. so if susan and josh fought a lot in front of the bird it most likely will repeat some of the things that it heard repeatedly/frequently. :)
LadyBug99
12-22-2009, 01:07 PM
"On Monday, West Valley City Police Capt. Tom McLachlan said an anonymous donor is offering up to $10,000 for original information that may lead them to Susan Powell."
I don't know how often this happens but why would the donor want to stay anonymous?
Thoughts??? TIA
Patty G
12-22-2009, 01:09 PM
They have asked him and he has refused. The police say he has only given vague answers to question. To take a polygraph you have to answer yes and no questions. Yes and no are not vague.
:waitasec:, I am now totally confused. LE asked him and he refused? Refused to answer, or refused to take a poly.
Answers to questions can be vague by just answering "yes or no".
Patty G
12-22-2009, 01:14 PM
I remember seeing it in a video with the police captain Tom McLachlan. He said they had asked for Josh to come in for further questioning and to take a polygraph but it was refused by his attorney. Look in one of the videos since Joshy retained Scott Williams.
If you happened to come across the video before I do, would you kindly post the link. Someone here indicated it was suppose to have been a text message from the lawyer.
I never heard the captain stating this and I would think we would be discussing this in detail across the boards as well as a new headliner indicating this refusal.
We really need to get this one resolved and asking for help in locating this information. Thanks.
"On Monday, West Valley City Police Capt. Tom McLachlan said an anonymous donor is offering up to $10,000 for original information that may lead them to Susan Powell."
I don't know how often this happens but why would the donor want to stay anonymous?
Thoughts??? TIA
Probably for the same reason many donate to charity anonymously. They don't want or need to be acknowledged.
Patty G
12-22-2009, 01:15 PM
Refusing to take a polygraph, whether it's admissible or not, is a pretty big deal. Worthy of at least a couple headlines, I would think. Just sayin'.
You would think it would have hit the newspapers, discussed on national news or at least on all the boards across the Interent. :crazy:
omegagal
12-22-2009, 01:32 PM
I am still looking for the video but here's a part of the article that was referring to the video:
McLachlan declined to comment on whether police had obtained a notebook or journal from Susan Powell's office, which reportedly detailed an alleged threat made by her husband about a year ago.
Meanwhile, police said investigators have discussed conducting a polygraph test of Josh Powell, but no such interview has occurred.
"He is not allowing us the opportunity to interview him at length in order to verify his statements and also to get more specifics," McLachlan said. "His statements are absolutely vague."
That article link is:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580540,00.html
omegagal
12-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Here's another article....
On Friday a police spokesman reiterated their desire to question Josh Powell again. But, he said the manner of questioning proposed by Powell's criminal defense attorney is unacceptable. ABC 4 has also learned that Powell was asked to take a polygraph test.
The link http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Czk1aW3EZYoJ:www.abc4.com/content/news/top%2520stories/story/Police-serve-subpoena-at-ABC-4-studios/49hPU70Ynk2DyPCbEJpQsg.cspx+%22josh+powell%22+poly graph&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Here's another one:
http://www.examiner.com/x-22460-Seattle-Family-Examiner~y2009m12d18-Susan-Powell-news-update-Police-served-search-warrants-on-media-asking-them-not-to-dispose-of-film
The only communication that I can find where the attorney Scott Williams texted the Police Department was to let them know Josh was going to spend Christmas with his father in Washington State...
Amster
12-22-2009, 01:43 PM
Fox News is going to do a report about Susan....
passionflower
12-22-2009, 01:47 PM
as funny as this sounds it is realistic behavior of a lot of parrots...depending on which kind you may be dealing with. african gray parrots are the absolute best in mimicking human speech, moo. and they are very very smart. they will repeat words, phrases and "situations" and they dont just repeat it in their bird voice, they will actually sound much like the person who said the phrase. ie my mil has a gray that i heard 'replaying' a phone conversation and i thought it was my mil until i looked and it was the bird. and most parrots have speech abilities. so if susan and josh fought a lot in front of the bird it most likely will repeat some of the things that it heard repeatedly/frequently. :)
I agree, some are like 3-4 year old children........
My friend had one that would come out with stuff that was so funny at wierd times.
Josh must trust this man with the BIRDS because one might just yell out,
Stop, your hurting me!
I even had a parakeet for 16 years that mimicked everyone.
He would say the same thing over and over til he thought of something else to say.
Amster
12-22-2009, 01:50 PM
Several persons of interest?? Pat Reavy of Deseret News....waiting on DNA evidence...no confirmation that Susan was planning to leave. All speculation.
Patty G
12-22-2009, 01:53 PM
most recent Fran list I have found so far:
---------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by fran
Things are mounting up.............anyone else?
.......REASONS TO SUSPECT HUSBAND OR QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED, BEFORE HUSBAND CAN BE ELIMINATED AS A POI
fran
1. Husband not the one who reported victim missing.
2. Husband had 'odd' alibi, ie going camping in sub-zero temperartures, late at night, leaving sick wife home alone in bed, and taking two toddlers, pre five yo's into the freezing winter night.
3. Change of story details, here and there or becoming evasive.
4. Avoiding media contact. The few times media managed to get a statement. He cut them off when they asked detailed questions about camping location. His excuse was "I have to get my boys." IMHO, he's using the boys as a shield.
5. Avoiding media questions, ie "Is that where you went camping?" to which he replies, "I have to pick up my boys."
6. Avoids wife-victim's family.
7. Stops talking to LE
8. Concerned with 'his house.'
9. Speaks of victim in 'past-tense.'
10. Speaks of 'buying new clothes and comforter.'
11. Unexplained 'wet spot' in carpeting and 'fans being used to dry.'
12. Gradual release of 'friends and family' speaking of marital problems.
13. Alleged from 'friends' of husband having control issues, which included control of wife ie victim.
14. Alleged from 'friends' of 'verbal abuse' by husband of victim.
15. Alleged statement by one of the children (ok, possibly rumor) "Daddy said mommy stayed in the woods for awhile."
16. Spoke to neighbor about 'hope his bird isn't dead' but didn't talk about his missing wife.
17. Testing generator late at night on camping trip
18. Sledding in the dark? (Locals, is there a place in that area to go sledding in the dark? He told friend he was taking boys sledding, that was at 5:00p.m. and he was seen returning home at 8:30p.m.)
19. Near frost bitten hands.
20. Just the sheer distance of the alleged camp site (3 or 4 hours drive)
21. NOT one sign of husband camping where he said he was.
22. Just plain talking about 'himself,' rather than his missing wife!!!!!!!!
23. No sign of forced entry of home.
24. Friends and neighbors said it was unusual for Josh to suddenly go camping late at night with the children in the freezing weather.
25. Periodic money problems including a past bankruptcy.
26. Joshy tells his FIL the last time he saw Susan was at 12:30, but didn't bother to tell him what a great time was had by all at the wee-hours-of-the-nite-camping-in-subzero-temps-and-snowstorm-in-the-desert outing.
(from Texas Mist)
27. Left sick wife alone, never to check on her and she had NO CAR to go to doctor! (from member passionflower)
28. Wife had gone to bed sick with an ear-ache which meant she most likely had a cold. Yet, husband made her walk home from church in freezing weather, (they only had one car)
29. Susan's friend had spoken to her on Sunday and friend said Susan wasn't sick.
30. Husband said wife sick but she went to bed at 12:30 a.m.
31. Husband said he forgot it was Sunday but he also said he saw last saw Susan at 12:30 a.m. when she went to bed and he was leaving for camping with the kids. She would have reminded him it was Monday and not Sat nite/Sunday a.m. "Got his days mixed up, thought it was Sunday" yet he neither attends church nor allows for boys to go.
32. Susan told co-workers she was physically fearful of her husband.
33. Co-workers say Susan took precautions in case 'anything' happened to her.
34. Josh's BIL stated when asked if he believes Josh had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, "I pray Josh isn't responisble."
35. Susan't friends knowledge of Powell marriage............SEVERAL advised Susan to leave her husband.
36. Susan's family paid for her to have a cell phone in case she was in trouble.
37. police have mentioned they would possibly like to have Josh take LDT: so far it has not been reported he has taken one to clear his name
38. Disappeared for 24 hours with rental car, AFTER Susan went missing. hundreds of miles were put on the car. There was no gps on the rental car
39. Local reporter said that at alleged camping location, you need to travel approximately 20 miles on unpaved road. It was storming. {suspicious}
40. When talking about spur of the moment camping trip with boys, Josh said they '.....liked to have smores in the morning.'
41. Wife's cellphone, purse and belongings LEFT BEHIND...
42. Josh skips town on Dec 18/19 (Fri/Sat) attorney says to spend holidays in Washington with father and step mom.
43. Sunday 2 weeks after Susan disappeared, Josh whereabouts unknown.
Has sons with him....note: husband has shown up in Washington State and attended a candle light vigil for Susan,.............NO comment to the media
44. First time LE contacted husband as at first the entire family was thought missing, Josh hung up on LE.
45. Statements by friends that Josh resented Susan's dedication to her church. (Also indications that Josh was being encouraged of his distaste for the church by his own father)
46. While at the candle light vigil in Washington, Josh was only 15 feet from Susan's parents, yet he didn't even acknowledge them.
47. Josh completely controlled Susan's spending. He told her how much she had to spend at the grocery store and what she could and couldn't buy as far as groceries or anything else was concerned.
48. LE said Josh is hindering the investigation.
49. It's not JUST that Josh left town while everyone is trying to look for his missing wife. He did NOT tell LE he was leaving or where he would be, in case his wife returned or she was found!
*Blue are added as the case developes and Websleuthers mention them
REASONS NOT TO LOOK TOWARDS HUSBAND
1. Josh said he didn't harm Susan.
2. Josh's dad said to stop "villifying" JP, he didn't harm his wife.
3. Josh's lawyer said Josh is not hindering investigation.
BBM
I see #37 has now been changed to reflect what we do know. Thanks. :)
passionflower
12-22-2009, 02:00 PM
Several persons of interest?? Pat Reavy of Deseret News....waiting on DNA evidence...no confirmation that Susan was planning to leave. All speculation.
like who? girlfriend? JoVonna? someone helped him somehow???
Oh no, Susan never stood a chanse!
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 02:00 PM
I agree, some are like 3-4 year old children........
My friend had one that would come out with stuff that was so funny at wierd times.
Josh must trust this man with the BIRDS because one might just yell out,
Stop, your hurting me!
I even had a parakeet for 16 years that mimicked everyone.
He would say the same thing over and over til he thought of something else to say.
yep, then you know what im talking about,lol! my birds are always talking to me -they are so smart... i do remember a bird in a pet store that was previously owned and they were having a hard time selling him because he kept going through a screaming argument between the couple that owned him ... or they curse a lot, lol. also a thought is if the birds are afraid of him, if they wont take their eyes off of his hands and scurry away. once i swatted at a fly with a swatter and omg, all the birds were scared of me for awhile! so if they saw him hitting susan they are probably very fearful of him...
hellolisakitty
12-22-2009, 02:01 PM
http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14042094&PageIndex=7
link to the comment everyone was talking about... on page seven of the comments at 1156
It looks like it got deleted? BUT, someone snipped it at 738AM on page 8 - asking what the source was...
passionflower
12-22-2009, 02:06 PM
yep, then you know what im talking about,lol! my birds are always talking to me -they are so smart... i do remember a bird in a pet store that was previously owned and they were having a hard time selling him because he kept going through a screaming argument between the couple that owned him ... or they curse a lot, lol. also a thought is if the birds are afraid of him, if they wont take their eyes off of his hands and scurry away. once i swatted at a fly with a swatter and omg, all the birds were scared of me for awhile! so if they saw him hitting susan they are probably very fearful of him...
Being bird lovers, I wish we could observe the behavior and speech of the birds......after all they were there through all of this.......like little witnesses.
hellolisakitty
12-22-2009, 02:23 PM
Salt Lake area weather update: Good news for those that want a White Christmas... but bad news for possible searches. The snow storm has started, and will continue through tomorrow.
MysteryAddict
12-22-2009, 02:29 PM
A question just popped into my head about that last day-
Could Jovanna have let it slip to Josh that Susan was thinking of leaving him??
For some reason I just can't get that woman out of my mind!
passionflower
12-22-2009, 02:31 PM
A question just popped into my head about that last day-
Could Jovanna have let it slip to Josh that Susan was thinking of leaving him??
For some reason I just can't get that woman out of my mind!
I have very bad vibes on her also, and I do not know why..........
DomCasual
12-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Salt Lake area weather update: Good news for those that want a White Christmas... but bad news for possible searches. The snow storm has started, and will continue through tomorrow.
I hope it cleans out this crappy air.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 02:34 PM
I have very bad vibes on her also, and I do not know why..........
i think that jovanna let it slip that susan was "talking" at church. that with the fact that he had found out about the secret bank account that she had probably sent him over the edge...i will go find the link about the bank account, but does anyone know how long ago jp had found out about that??
eta: link
http://dailyme.com/story/2009122200003254/susan-powell-mulled-divorce-plan-escape.html
Joshua Powell, 33, was upset his wife was depositing money into an account he didn't have access to, said friends who added that they encouraged Susan to stand up to him. Family members have said the couple got marital counseling at Susan Powell's urging.
hellolisakitty
12-22-2009, 02:37 PM
I hope it cleans out this crappy air.
Haha. Me too! I am thinking that is why I have had a headache the last 3 days. It has been awful.
ckwood32
12-22-2009, 02:39 PM
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094
Here is an article about a secret bank account.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 03:01 PM
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094
Here is an article about a secret bank account.
thanx for finding this link ck...this article mentions the bank account and said that she was poised to leave or return to washington...but none of the articles tells us WHEN any of this occurred, just that she decided to stay and work it out. if we knew when any of this happened it might help in exposing whether or not this was planned out or not. i wonder if she chose to stay only because he agreed to counseling? and if so could this be a result of trying to use marital counseling in a domestic violence situation, or in other words it some how agitated jp into becoming more aggressive/violent than he had previously been? omega, maybe you can answer this?? im not at all excusing jp - NOT AT ALL. also another thought was if jp had started taking any antidepressants that he could try and use that excuse for his behavior???
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 03:01 PM
yep, then you know what im talking about,lol! my birds are always talking to me -they are so smart... i do remember a bird in a pet store that was previously owned and they were having a hard time selling him because he kept going through a screaming argument between the couple that owned him ... or they curse a lot, lol. also a thought is if the birds are afraid of him, if they wont take their eyes off of his hands and scurry away. once i swatted at a fly with a swatter and omg, all the birds were scared of me for awhile! so if they saw him hitting susan they are probably very fearful of him...
OT Of course we're intelligent :snooty: really...!
:parrot:
Curious Me
12-22-2009, 03:04 PM
Curious Me... I know in the case of a religious woman, she will first go to her church leadership. If a church leader even suspected that there is a control issue in the marriage, red flags should be going off. Because that's what abuse is - it's control. At that point a professional counselor (LPC or LCSW) with training in the abuse cycle would be able to counsel a woman to help bring up her self esteem, develop trust and help her to make positive decisions in the relationship. It does not have to be a DV counselor. It can start with a call to the National Domestic Violence Hotline for resources or to a friend at church, a parent. We need to be more educated as to what these red flags are. BYU Women's center put together a program where they are encouraging students to recognize abusive controlling behavior in others and speaking up against it. They even did an organized 5k race in September to bring awareness. IMHO, it has to be a combination of education among ourselves and our children and a professional approach of educating our church leaders.
Here's a link to BYU's Voices of Courage:
http://wsr.byu.edu/content/voices-courage
Thank You so much omegagal! (my thanks button is acting odd, so thanks to all of you posting, as well) I am so in favor of everyone visiting this site, especially the Signs of Abuse list. Awareness would be the first step. Everybody needs to learn what abusive controlling behavior is to recognize it, and help themselves or someone else.
http://wsr.byu.edu/content/warning-signs-emotional-abuse
Yes and was surrounded by his own group with umbrellas to keep from media???
I find this completely disturbing! That little boy has enough trauma that he is gonna carry with him for the rest of his life, why would Josh take him to that and add to the memories?
mimi56
12-22-2009, 03:43 PM
and why take only the 4 year old?
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 03:46 PM
and why take only the 4 year old?
because the 4yr old is the only one that can answer questions and josh doesnt want that to happen. moo
he probably wont let the him out of his sight...poor kid...
and why take only the 4 year old?
Agreed! I meant to make that point but sidetracked. I feel so much for those poor little boys. They have no idea what is happening in their lives and unfortunately they have a long road ahead of them. But at least, I can take comfort in knowing that they have the best Guardian Angel God could give them.
mimi56
12-22-2009, 03:49 PM
I agree! That's the only reason that makes sense!
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 03:58 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
drove the rental car HUNDREDS OF MILES IN 24 HOURS.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 04:08 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
drove the rental car HUNDREDS OF MILES IN 24 HOURS.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
Police are now looking into where Powell drove during that 24-hour period because the car lacked a GPS tracking device but had "several hundred" extra miles on it when he returned it to the rental car company, the Deseret News reported.
ABOVE BBM
i have only rented a car like 1-2 times, so i dont really know much about this. do they mean he had to pay extra because he put more miles than normal or as in total he put "several" hundred miles? if several means around 300, then what is around 150 miles away and 150 miles back? isnt that how far le was searching? i sorta think le is looking in the right place but they just havent found her yet??? BUT im usually wrong, lol :blushing:
lonetraveler
12-22-2009, 04:09 PM
JP was supposedly checking out a new generator during the near zero degree camping trip. Generators usually have a device on them that clock the hours used. If this was the first time it had been used then the generator should have clocked hours on it. Haven't figured out if this is useful information or not, but just thought I would throw this info out for thought.
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 04:11 PM
I disagree w former FBI agent (Brad Garrett) statement in this video that JP is "not a danger to the community. The odds of him wanting to harm somebody else are very low, so leave him out there as long as you can." Yes the probable homicide of his wife was very "personal" but the threat to other members of his family--his sons--remains a real and "personal" one too. JMO
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/susan-powell-disappearance-pressure-mounting-husband-arrest/story?id=9398050
:parrot:
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 04:28 PM
I disagree w former FBI agent (Brad Garrett) statement in this video that JP is "not a danger to the community. The odds of him wanting to harm somebody else are very low, so leave him out there as long as you can." Yes the probable homicide of his wife was very "personal" but the threat to other members of his family--his sons--remains a real and "personal" one too. JMO
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/susan-powell-disappearance-pressure-mounting-husband-arrest/story?id=9398050
:parrot:
yeah, thats what susans parents thought too...and look how that is turning out
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 04:30 PM
JP was supposedly checking out a new generator during the near zero degree camping trip. Generators usually have a device on them that clock the hours used. If this was the first time it had been used then the generator should have clocked hours on it. Haven't figured out if this is useful information or not, but just thought I would throw this info out for thought.
so, what do you think about this generator? do you really think he had one with him? if so, what did he need it for? i think if he had one with him, it was because he needed it for something and NOT to "test" it. i just cant figure what he would be doin...
lonetraveler
12-22-2009, 04:35 PM
so, what do you think about this generator? do you really think he had one with him? if so, what did he need it for? i think if he had one with him, it was because he needed it for something and NOT to "test" it. i just cant figure what he would be doin...
I'm assuming that he had to use the generator for heat in the van during the "camping" trip. You would not be able to use the van's heat because you would not be able to run the engine that long. I'm thinking that he had a heater and a way to heat food in that van. Much like a camper would have, only electrically generated since he needed to use a generator.
badhorsie
12-22-2009, 04:58 PM
This may be there but I cannot see it, how about Josh cooking for Susan and after the meal she was so sleepy that she had to go and sleep while a friend was visiting. I find that very suspicious
Curious Me
12-22-2009, 05:01 PM
so, what do you think about this generator? do you really think he had one with him? if so, what did he need it for? i think if he had one with him, it was because he needed it for something and NOT to "test" it. i just cant figure what he would be doin...
Trying to think outside the box about the generator...would it be useful to have a generator to run...hate to even say this...a saw?
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 05:18 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
Police are now looking into where Powell drove during that 24-hour period because the car lacked a GPS tracking device but had "several hundred" extra miles on it when he returned it to the rental car company, the Deseret News reported.
ABOVE BBM
i have only rented a car like 1-2 times, so i dont really know much about this. do they mean he had to pay extra because he put more miles than normal or as in total he put "several" hundred miles? if several means around 300, then what is around 150 miles away and 150 miles back? isnt that how far le was searching? i sorta think le is looking in the right place but they just havent found her yet??? BUT im usually wrong, lol :blushing:
I don't know.. but "several hundred" could, to me, mean between 200-300 plus miles.
freaking hinky man!
Think about where you live and where you drive in a day doing your normal sort of thing. In 24 hours, how many miles would you put on your car even if you work an hour away from where you live? This Josh guy... complete id!ot! Complete and utter! Most telling... this happened before he secured his lawyer. His lawyer will most likely say that he was out looking for Susan on his own... can't you see it now? But in light of his past availability to help in the search for his wife I don't see THAT flying at all in front of a jury! And yes, I said jury.
I think he killed her and took this car back out to the site he killed her. He either went to check and see if anyone else had figured it out or to make sure his hiding place was still safe.
In those 24 hours during which he had the rental car I hope and pray that LE has interviewed his sister and brother in law or whomever he was staying with! Did they know where he was? Did he have his phone on and can they trace the pings as to where he went? How about the rental.. did they seize it and test it?
I hope that he will freaking MAN UP and tell everyone what he did. Josh is currently sucking up all the available oxygen for his family.. and they are going to need it when Susan is found. Shame on him!~
hellolisakitty
12-22-2009, 05:35 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
Police are now looking into where Powell drove during that 24-hour period because the car lacked a GPS tracking device but had "several hundred" extra miles on it when he returned it to the rental car company, the Deseret News reported.
ABOVE BBM
i have only rented a car like 1-2 times, so i dont really know much about this. do they mean he had to pay extra because he put more miles than normal or as in total he put "several" hundred miles? if several means around 300, then what is around 150 miles away and 150 miles back? isnt that how far le was searching? i sorta think le is looking in the right place but they just havent found her yet??? BUT im usually wrong, lol :blushing:
I doubt he had to pay extra... but, when you rent a car the mileage is noted at the time of pick up and then again when the car is dropped off. Most 'standard' cars have unlimited mileage. Sometimes there is a mileage cap where you have to pay for extra miles... but that is usually for 'specialty' cars - like a larger SUV (like an Excursion or Escalade) or luxury vehicles (Cadillac, Town Car, euro sedans).... So I am guessing once they (LE) found out about the car they checked on the miles. Too bad they were not aware of it when he got it... then they could have had someone tailing him.
Taminator
12-22-2009, 05:41 PM
He's probably going to say he thought he still lived in WA. He got halfway there and remembered he lived in Utah. That's why all the miles are on the rental car. It's all a big coincidence.:doh:
MysteryAddict
12-22-2009, 05:43 PM
For Josh to be able to go rent a car and take off for 24 hrs. to points
unknown while LE inspected his van for evidence in this murder
case is mind boggling.
I don't understand why he would not have been under surveillance.
emmcee
12-22-2009, 05:53 PM
snip . . .
I think he killed her and took this car back out to the site he killed her. He either went to check and see if anyone else had figured it out or to make sure his hiding place was still safe.
. . . snip
I think returning to "the site" would be typical for a killer to do from what I've read. I cannot believe that LE would not be following him and recording his every movement. If I am wrong - if LE did NOT follow him 24/7 in the rental car - then they are totally derelict in their duty. I have to believe that they're getting all their ducks in a row and will arrest him soon.
LogicalMinds
12-22-2009, 06:12 PM
For Josh to be able to go rent a car and take off for 24 hrs. to points
unknown while LE inspected his van for evidence in this murder
case is mind boggling.
I don't understand why he would not have been under surveillance.
BINGO !! I am sorry but I also just do NOT understand what LE is doing here
why oh why wouldn't they have followed him?? Who knows what they would have seen/found??? This could be "over" and solved by now, some cold comfort for her poor family...and the boys would be safe instead of being with creepy Josh
The more I read the sicker I get here....grrrrrrr:banghead::banghead:
GingerRed
12-22-2009, 06:16 PM
I think returning to "the site" would be typical for a killer to do from what I've read. I cannot believe that LE would not be following him and recording his every movement. If I am wrong - if LE did NOT follow him 24/7 in the rental car - then they are totally derelict in their duty. I have to believe that they're getting all their ducks in a row and will arrest him soon.
I agree completely!
Curious Me
12-22-2009, 07:10 PM
Oh, thankfully there are others that believe LE should have/must have been following his movements every second after listening to Josh stumble through his first hinky interview. Please tell me LE is aware it is crucial to watch this man very closely every second until Susan is found.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 07:49 PM
I think returning to "the site" would be typical for a killer to do from what I've read. I cannot believe that LE would not be following him and recording his every movement. If I am wrong - if LE did NOT follow him 24/7 in the rental car - then they are totally derelict in their duty. I have to believe that they're getting all their ducks in a row and will arrest him soon.
yes, this is what i am thinking too...they just want josh to think that he is not being followed in hopes of him feeling confident enough to go to where susan is..i really hope that is what is going on.
GingerRed
12-22-2009, 07:51 PM
The plot thickens:
Susan's emails to friends turned into police:
That friend said Susan talked to her one day about something she had written and left in her desk at work.
"She had mentioned about writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide. She said it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself because she would never leave her boys alone," the friend said.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-sent-by-Powell-turned-over.html
SusanB
12-22-2009, 07:53 PM
I cannot believe that LE did not follow him when he rented the car and drove hundreds of miles. :doh:
If they did not, WHY? I agree, they were derelict in their duty! But - maybe they did? If they did, I would assume that the body would have been found, because I am sure that is where he went.
I just saw the case on Jane V-M. The friend Jovanna was on, and said Susan never gave any indication that they were having problems. she painted a pretty picture of the last night when she was over there crocheting. She obviously is on the side of Josh - she said he was soooo nice to her that night, put a blanket on her cause she was cold, cooked a nice dinner for her, cleaned up the dishes, and even made it a point to say "he cleaned up a spill from dinner that was on the floor." Weird remark - I think she was trying to elude about the wet carpet/fans.
Jane was not buying all the lovey-dovey stuff. Her panel guest said it was not uncommon for abused women to not tell but only a few close friends. I though it was funny - the lady said she may not have confided in an "older" person who she went to church with!
Anyway, I am frustrated about the rental car - this case may have been much further along, and Susan's family just continues to suffer.:banghead:
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 07:55 PM
I guess le is now checking out emails to her friends... check it out!
(come ON deseret news... you slow loading.....blah.. blah.. blah!)
..........
Several of Susan's friends, who wished to remain anonymous, confirmed to the Deseret News that they had turned over e-mails to police that Susan sent them in June and July of 2008, the point at which all friends agreed the Powells' marriage was at its worst.
One of the friends confirmed that in one of the e-mails, Susan was afraid Josh Powell may kidnap her two boys, divorce her or worse.
That friend said Susan talked to her one day about something she had written and left in her desk at work.
"She had mentioned about writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide. She said it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself because she would never leave her boys alone," the friend said.
"I didn't really know the context in which she was talking. I didn't even know what to say to that."
The friend said that was the only time Susan brought up that topic.
West Valley police declined Tuesday to talk about any potential evidence in the case. Other friends had reported earlier that a notebook Susan kept in her desk at work at Wells Fargo was among the items seized by police.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-sent-by-Powell-turned-over.html
there of course is more telling info at the link. Arrest him already and let his children get on with the lives they have to live after knowing what their father did to their mother. I mean really.... Josh can take this so far... and than he can take it further and drag his children into little mangled bits with it. Wonder which one he will choose? It will speak to his level of depravity imhoo.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 07:58 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
Just got home, was this discussed yet? Susan had planned everything to leave Josh
for OVER A YEAR!!!!
GingerRed
12-22-2009, 08:15 PM
The plot thickens:
Susan's emails to friends turned into police:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-sent-by-Powell-turned-over.html
In a very heartbreaking way, this is a comforting development. This stuff WILL move a jury.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 08:19 PM
For friends and family of Susan, the red flag to them that foul play is likely involved is that Susan would never leave her two young boys, ages 2 and 4.
"She wouldn't even go visiting teaching for an hour without the boys," one friend said.
Susan remained active in her LDS ward, even after Josh stopped going to church, according to friends. She was in the Relief Society and recently had accepted a new calling prior to her disappearance.
Friends say 2008 was a tough year for the Powells' marriage. They confirmed previous reports that Josh was very controlling and that Susan confided with a few friends that she was considering whether to leave him
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-sent-by-Powell-turned-over.html
was the acceptance of the new calling the breaking point???????????
passionflower
12-22-2009, 08:20 PM
yes, this is what i am thinking too...they just want josh to think that he is not being followed in hopes of him feeling confident enough to go to where susan is..i really hope that is what is going on.
I doubt if he will go back to the spot again............JMOO
omegagal
12-22-2009, 08:24 PM
I put this over on the abuse board but thought it appropriate to post here as well:
What is abuse? Is that what I'm going through???
This letter was written from one abused survivor to a support group of women in different phases of an abusive relationship. Just a few months ago she knew something desperately was wrong with the way her boyfriend was treating her but she didn't quite know WHAT it was. With her permission, I am posting it here in the hopes that we may be able to help educate the public on the subject of abuse. You may recognize yourself or a friend here...
School sounds great, I want to go back to school too but have health problems. It would really help keep me active and my mind off him. Plus the boost in self confidence and esteem would be tremendous...I just don't know what I want to do...
Wow, everyone's story is my own, snippets here, parts there. We all have SO much in common. And several months back I didn't even know there was a name for this. I was beginning to figure out that something really didn't feel right at all, something wasn't right. When I started reading, I was in a state of shock...
So the email I sent to his 'friend' got forwarded to him. So he left me an angry text calling me evil and a stalker!!! Well, he's called me so many names since our first conversation, it only frustrates me. I haven't heard from her so she must be a girlfriend trying to make him more mad at me. She doesn't realize he will treat her like dirt, if they even get together...one day she will realize that I really was telling the truth. I'm not going to email her back again.
I really really wish I had walked away from this when my instincts first told me he wasn't right. I was isolated, vulnerable, a bit depressed and very alone when he approached me. And no matter what, his abuse wasn't my fault. It wasn't my fault, nor has it been the fault of any of you either.
At this point, trust is going to be a very difficult thing. But it will be important to surround myself with warm, loving, honorable and fun people. I am reliving it all over again and need to get distance from it once more...
Peace to you all..
passionflower
12-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Fran
Can this be added? E-mails sent last year by Susan Powell to friends told of marriage struggles between her and her husband to the point that she seemed to be in fear of him.
and did everyone read this in above article???
He decided one afternoon to take his two boys camping, the friend said. They returned about 3 a.m. because it got too cold, and the boys subsequently got sick.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 08:26 PM
But friends say she also started standing up more to her husband. She gained more confidence, they said.
"They knew how to push each other's buttons," a friend said
but:
One friend recalled a time when Susan Powell had to get a ride home from work from another person because of a miscommunication with her husband. He decided one afternoon to take his two boys camping, the friend said. They returned about 3 a.m. because it got too cold, and the boys subsequently got sick.
but what time of the year was this other impromptu camping trip? Bet it wasn't in a blizzard.
I think that Josh did whatever he could whenever he felt he was losing control of his marriage. This time the elements were his backfire. If he wAS a responsible parent and concerned only about his children he would not take them out camping in a blizzard. I would not be surprised that, if we could be a little fly on the arm of Josh, that in the past his past his other impromptu trips did not happen but rather he may have left with the children and drove around to Scare Susand and "put her in her place"....
And where did he go in that rental car? Eh Josh? Where did you go all those hundreds of miles? If you were helping to find your wife and really cared you would let LE know so they could mark it off the map... they could know you were helping. A help is something I bet YOU ARE NOT!
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/Friends-turn-over-e-mails-sent-by-Susan-Powell.html?pg=2
Vegas Bride
12-22-2009, 08:28 PM
It's possible Josh used the rental car to move Susan to another place. He may have been worried that he didn't hide her well enough the first time, or that somehow it would be found out where he had actually gone.
Did LE know about him taking off in the rental car before it was returned? If they only found out about it later, quite a bit of evidence could have already been cleaned up :(
I wonder if he had a cell phone with him so pings can be checked. You would think he would have been in touch with someone, you know just in case Susan was found!! or so whoever had his children could get in contact with him.
I'm assuming he does have a cell phone since his one friend got ahold of him to tell him how the police were looking for him. Odd how he could have a phone, yet his wife had to have one provided by her father!
It's snowing here again and things are so well covered up, but I pray for a miracle that Susan can be returned to the family that loves and misses her.
VB
passionflower
12-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Wonder what her new calling was that would drive him to complete rage??
passionflower
12-22-2009, 08:31 PM
It's possible Josh used the rental car to move Susan to another place. He may have been worried that he didn't hide her well enough the first time, or that somehow it would be found out where he had actually gone.
Did LE know about him taking off in the rental car before it was returned? If they only found out about it later, quite a bit of evidence could have already been cleaned up :(
I wonder if he had a cell phone with him so pings can be checked. You would think he would have been in touch with someone, you know just in case Susan was found!! or so whoever had his children could get in contact with him.
I'm assuming he does have a cell phone since his one friend got ahold of him to tell him how the police were looking for him. Odd how he could have a phone, yet his wife had to have one provided by her father!
It's snowing here again and things are so well covered up, but I pray for a miracle that Susan can be returned to the family that loves and misses her.
VB
I hope LE reads here to get some tips on how to check on this guy.
Please tell me we are dealing with a smart LEO and not keystone cops.......
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 08:32 PM
her new calling..........could very well have been the fuse on this death candle. imhoo
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 08:33 PM
and yes I did say death. I don't think he let her walk away from the house that night.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 08:37 PM
Tim Petersen says a couple days after Susan went missing, Josh went to their home and asked for a ride to the police station to pick up the family van that police had been processing. Petersen says Josh drove to his home in his rental car. He told ABC4 that Josh never mentioned anything about taking any particularly long drives. Today, Petersen says he's left speculating if Josh possibly took another trip up to the Pony Express Trail.
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Police-and-friends-question-why-Powell-drove/k0l8JiJF2Uy7H6JSYRt2gg.cspx
you, me and the kitchen sink speculating brotha!
lemonmoussetart
12-22-2009, 08:38 PM
i can understand why Josh would make an appearance at the vigil in WA.
but why bring this 4 year old to it? then not even let the grandparents talk or hug him.
Josh has stated that all the boys know is mommy is missing.
who knows what the boy heard while at the vigil? surely prayers for his mommy's safety. if you were truly sheltering the children, would you really want them hearing that?
Vegas Bride
12-22-2009, 08:42 PM
i can understand why Josh would make an appearance at the vigil in WA.
but why bring this 4 year old to it? then not even let the grandparents talk or hug him.
Josh has stated that all the boys know is mommy is missing.
who knows what the boy heard while at the vigil? surely prayers for his mommy's safety. if you were truly sheltering the children, would you really want them hearing that?
IMO he brought his son so he could hold him in his arms and hide behind him, using him like a shield. Then if someone did happen to ask him anything, he could always run off saying he needed to take care of his boy.
Will I get in trouble here if I say I see an extremely spineless man?
VB
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Lemon,
I think Josh has a problem in his head and has for a long time. He thinks he is right and he always is... even now... I think he is clinging to his son like the last grape lollypop in the penny candy store. No one gets him but Josh.
Never have really thought this deep about it but you know how one child will be a favorite of one parent and another child the favorite of another? Could the four year old be Josh's favorite??? Or the child who clings to his father and Josh is holding on to that alliance? Just a thought.
The rest of those he has allied with are OUT OF STATE. Not even his own SISTER in Utah nor his MOTHER have alligned publicly in his favor.
IMHOO he is holding onto who holds on to him.
this could include the four year old.
And those who hold onto him will dwindle quickly in the coming days imhoo.... but what damage is he doing to this son that still thinks he is the first light of the day?
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 08:45 PM
I doubt if he will go back to the spot again............JMOO
what i am getting at is that the cops want him to feel like he is not being followed...i think it would be stupid for him to go any place that would prove to be incriminating, BUT jp is not exactly brilliant either, lol! and if he thought he needed to move her or something he would have to go back...because what if where le has been searching is where he put her? i think he might go back to move the evidence...moo :)
passionflower
12-22-2009, 08:51 PM
what i am getting at is that the cops want him to feel like he is not being followed...i think it would be stupid for him to go any place that would prove to be incriminating, BUT jp is not exactly brilliant either, lol! and if he thought he needed to move her or something he would have to go back...because what if where le has been searching is where he put her? i think he might go back to move the evidence...moo :)
or are we way off track.......could he of gone to see an internet girl friend??
I doubt if Susan and he were living as man and wife so to speak, trouble for a year........I sorta think there could be a GF.
Susan was not allowed to use HIS computer IIRC.
WHY?
GF???
Did he take the kids in the rental car or leave them with his sister that 24 hours? What time did he leave? and come back?
omegagal
12-22-2009, 08:55 PM
thanx for finding this link ck...this article mentions the bank account and said that she was poised to leave or return to washington...but none of the articles tells us WHEN any of this occurred, just that she decided to stay and work it out. if we knew when any of this happened it might help in exposing whether or not this was planned out or not. i wonder if she chose to stay only because he agreed to counseling? and if so could this be a result of trying to use marital counseling in a domestic violence situation, or in other words it some how agitated jp into becoming more aggressive/violent than he had previously been? omega, maybe you can answer this?? im not at all excusing jp - NOT AT ALL. also another thought was if jp had started taking any antidepressants that he could try and use that excuse for his behavior???
I do not think Josh would medicate as I believe he thinks there is nothing wrong with Josh...
I do believe that if someone suggested marital counseling to them, I would pray they went to a licensed counselor (LPC or LCSW) and not a "marital counselor" as a marital counselor does not have the education or experience to identify psychological disorders.
What I am afraid may have happened is that Susan mentioned counseling (knowing SOMETHING was wrong) and someone else may have given her the name of an LDS Family Services unexperienced individual that did no more good than a psychic healer. Sorry but I am so against unprofessional people delving into matters they don't belong. Of course, maybe that didn't happen. Maybe Susan did start out with a marital counselor and they recognized that this was not their expertise and referred her on to an abuse counselor. Susan would have made her own decisions and choices with a professional counselor. They will not tell someone what to do, only give them resources and help to make up their own minds and give them back the power to make their own decisions. One of the first things a counselor will give an abused (or suspected abused) woman is the book, Why Does He Do That, Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. If after reading that, the woman's head starts ringing recognition, then she's probably being abused. Even we as a group and her family and friends figured out she was being abused in less than two weeks. Couldn't a counselor figure that out as well??
One note I need to add is in my Stake there is a Marital Counselor whose education is that he has a Masters in Business Administration (MBA) and his career was in accounting fraud with the government yet he is a member of the Mormon Counselors Association starting a new career. He's probably well into his 60s so many people think he's done this all his life. He's one of the most narcissistic individuals in our Stake according to a licensed professional that knows him. In my state it is very easy to get a "marital counseling" certificate if you have a master's degree in anything. Of course, marital counseling IS NOT psychological counseling. There is a huge difference between the two.
TGIRecovered
12-22-2009, 08:56 PM
Josh's previous camping trip could have been a cover story for scoping out, or even preparing, a good place to hide a body.
I believe he had been thinking about how to get rid of Susan for quite awhile. He just didn't think far enough past the dumping of the body. He is not a very good judge of what others are likely to do, such as the babysitter reporting them missing. That wasn't in his plan, and the early involvement of LE caught him unprepared. He planned a murder without planning for the random circumstances which change, such as weather, or daily expected routines.
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 08:58 PM
I just saw the case on Jane V-M. The friend Jovanna was on, and said Susan never gave any indication that they were having problems. she painted a pretty picture of the last night when she was over there crocheting. She obviously is on the side of Josh - she said he was soooo nice to her that night, put a blanket on her cause she was cold, cooked a nice dinner for her, cleaned up the dishes, and even made it a point to say "he cleaned up a spill from dinner that was on the floor." Weird remark - I think she was trying to elude about the wet carpet/fans.
(above respectfully 'snipped' and bolded by smart blonde)
I can't help it... this woman gets my 'hinky meter' up like no other! Does anyone else get the feeling, that at the very least, this woman may have a 'crush' on Josh?
Suddenly, it looks like Josh even has an 'alibi' for the fans on the floor.
Is it possible JoVonna was jealous of Susan?
This is Websleuths, the world's best crime-sleuthing website (imo), so I know my fellow posters will understand that the following is simply not-well-thought-out SPECULATION on my part, but, here goes...
What if.... (just speculating here)... JoVonna knew Josh was going sledding with the boys, because he told JoVonna that himself. After he left, JoVonna did something to Susan herself? With Susan 'out of the way', in her fantasy, she is set to take Susan's place. When Josh returns, he finds Susan either missing or murdered. If he finds her murdered, he correctly believes everyone will blame him for the murder, so he takes the boys, and Susan's body, to dispose of the body? The rest plays out just the way we think it has.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 09:00 PM
or are we way off track.......could he of gone to see an internet girl friend??
I doubt if Susan and he were living as man and wife so to speak, trouble for a year........I sorta think there could be a GF.
Susan was not allowed to use HIS computer IIRC.
WHY?
GF???
Did he take the kids in the rental car or leave them with his sister that 24 hours? What time did he leave? and come back?
yep, i agree with you on that too. it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few days. i think we are going to see a bunch of stuff. the friends are already coming out with the "truth" rather than all that "dont want to say anything bad about anyone" bs. i also dont think he wanted susan on the pc because she would be able to communicate with people and gain knowledge...both are frowned on by josh - he should have joined the taliban since that is how they treat their women, huh?
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:02 PM
One friend confirmed that in one of the e-mails, Susan Powell said she was afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys, divorce her or worse
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Katie O'Connell has been found safe.... cannot wait to hear HER story. I wish the same could be said for Susan...
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:07 PM
(above respectfully 'snipped' and bolded by smart blonde)
I can't help it... this woman gets my 'hinky meter' up like no other! Does anyone else get the feeling, that at the very least, this woman may have a 'crush' on Josh?
Suddenly, it looks like Josh even has an 'alibi' for the fans on the floor.
Is it possible JoVonna was jealous of Susan?
This is Websleuths, the world's best crime-sleuthing website (imo), so I know my fellow posters will understand that the following is simply not-well-thought-out SPECULATION on my part, but, here goes...
What if.... (just speculating here)... JoVonna knew Josh was going sledding with the boys, because he told JoVonna that himself. After he left, JoVonna did something to Susan herself? With Susan 'out of the way', in her fantasy, she is set to take Susan's place. When Josh returns, he finds Susan either missing or murdered. If he finds her murdered, he correctly believes everyone will blame him for the murder, so he takes the boys, and Susan's body, to dispose of the body? The rest plays out just the way we think it has.
IMO, JoVonna didn't do the dirty deed but she sure is on Josh's side and why?
Is she the GF??? I know it is stated she is older and has 7 children, but
is she married? Josh treated her well, why??? a blanket on her, she was cold?
His wife laid down sick? Would like to know more about this woman, after all she was one of the 2 people to last see Susan ALIVE..........
lemonmoussetart
12-22-2009, 09:07 PM
You have to watch Joy Behar to see it, but they are covering the rental car now.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:09 PM
Powell family friend, Tim Petersen, told us that if goals set by Susan and Josh's marital counselor weren't met, then Susan was planning a divorce by the year's end.
Petersen says he himself, and several of Susan’s other friends encouraged her to leave Josh. He says Susan was the one who brought Josh to marital counseling where they set goals. Petersen says, “By the end of the year, he needed to be going to church full time, and by their anniversary, he needed to have his temple recommend.” Peteresen says Susan took those goals very seriously. He says, “If he wasn't there, that she was going to divorce him and take the house and the kids.”
Petersen says it was Susan's biggest wish because she was such a devout church goer, that they could get their marriage back to where it was in their early years
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Friends-say-Susan-Powell-was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx
right here is the motive... screaming out at us
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:10 PM
You have to watch Joy Behar to see it, but they are covering the rental car now.
I'm not near a television... can anyone narrate, please?
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:11 PM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:12 PM
Josh OBVIOUSLY did not want to meet the set goals within the LDS church that they married. This is making more sense bit by bit. So what could have happened that weekend that set him off... like I am done with this woman and this church and I am getting rid of her and taking my sons (((just thoughts!))))
But really, after learning what we know this could have been possible.
did any confrontations happen at the church during that morning prayer breakfast or did that just set him off to do what he plannned?????
I am thinking it just set him off in a senseless direction to do what he planned. imoo at this point
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:13 PM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????
I don't believe she did. Today is the first time I've heard that.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:13 PM
You have to watch Joy Behar to see it, but they are covering the rental car now.
not near a TV right now.......did NG or JVM say anything tonight on their shows???
Melly53
12-22-2009, 09:13 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html
Just got home, was this discussed yet? Susan had planned everything to leave Josh
for OVER A YEAR!!!!
After reading all the information on this case I believe that Josh is the person responsible for Susan's disappearance. This seems to be a another classic example of Domestic Violence taken to the extreme.
This statement from: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-sent-by-Powell-turned-over.html sounds way too familiar.
"She'd talk about how she was debating about how she should get divorced. But she wanted to give him a chance to change to how he was when they first met. She said if they tried counseling, she'd give him another chance," a friend said, but added, "I don't know if anything was really changing."
Having been married to an abusive Ex, I can tell you that even with intense counseling very, very few abusers ever change, although they are capable of putting on a front of doing so for an extended period of time. IIRC my DV counselor told me that the success rate for permanent change for an abuser following Domestic Violence/Anger management counseling was around 3%. My ex was able to put on that "changed" front for a year and was even good enough to have fooled his two professional DV/AM psychologists that were treating him....until it all fell apart.
I can't help but wonder what the final argument was about. I read that he was upset with her Christmas spending for the boys and his mention of the "new generator" makes me think that perhaps it may have started over money. Even a small generator is not cheap and buying one right before Christmas when finances may already have been strained seems a little "off" to me. He controlled the money and the spending but was obviously not very good at it since they were so deeply in debt that he had to declare Bankruptcy not too long ago. I would be willing to bet that there were frequent arguments over "his" spending. He has already begun moving some things out of their house saying that he won't be able to keep up the payments now. I wonder if they were on the verge of foreclosure? Did their argument lead to Susan telling him that she was leaving with the boys and wanted a divorce? I hope not since that would have been a major "trigger" for him.
I wish we knew more about the "marriage counseling" that they had received. Were they being counseled by someone that specialized in Domestic Violence or not? I would like to know why the neighbor called the police on Josh. Was he physically violent and abusing Susan? So many questions and so few answers the biggest of which is "where is Susan"?
I was one of the lucky ones that managed to escape with my life, I just wish that Susan had been as lucky.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:14 PM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????
not that I have heard of! just pancake and egg breakfast and crocheting in the living room, and than Susan begs off saying she is tired and AFTER she is in bed Josh mentions the sledding.
LogicalMinds
12-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Hi...yup...JoVanna is an odd one IMHO
she seems like she might be an old meddler, who is somehow on Josh's "side" and can't give up her rose colored glasses when she thinks of the "dear boy"
that "cleaned up a spill" is just weird...were they all eating dinner in the bedroom or what?? She just NOW remembers this?
~~~~
I also remember JoVanna was praising Josh soooo much on his (iffy) real estate website
~~~
the "divorce" declaration comes as NO surprise to me...I posted that as my "reason" right away, as I usually always try to figure out the most "simple" explanation....and 9 times out of 10 that is it...
marital troubles...control....money troubles
but the "end game" comes into play when the woman makes her move....when she finally tells the jerk she is done, wants out...goodbye
Oh if ONLY only women would get a plan, gather the forces of friends/family around them...or get out on the sly or whatever....this is just a sad repeat repeat repeat
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:16 PM
is JoVonna a devoted Mormon? like Susan or more like Josh?
lemonmoussetart
12-22-2009, 09:17 PM
[QUOTE=SusanB;4594978]
I just saw the case on Jane V-M. The friend Jovanna was on, and said Susan never gave any indication that they were having problems. she painted a pretty picture of the last night when she was over there crocheting. She obviously is on the side of Josh - she said he was soooo nice to her that night, put a blanket on her cause she was cold, cooked a nice dinner for her, cleaned up the dishes, and even made it a point to say "he cleaned up a spill from dinner that was on the floor." Weird remark - I think she was trying to elude about the wet carpet/fans.
QUOTE]
pancakes and scrambled eggs = nice dinner?
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:17 PM
Josh OBVIOUSLY did not want to meet the set goals within the LDS church that they married. This is making more sense bit by bit. So what could have happened that weekend that set him off... like I am done with this woman and this church and I am getting rid of her and taking my sons (((just thoughts!))))
But really, after learning what we know this could have been possible.
did any confrontations happen at the church during that morning prayer breakfast or did that just set him off to do what he plannned?????
I am thinking it just set him off in a senseless direction to do what he planned. imoo at this point
Perhaps Susan was upset with Josh because he didn't go to church as promised, knowing how important that promise was to her, yet he could take the kids sledding.
I think what started out as a regular argument may have escalated into a murderous rage on Josh's part. During the argument, he got defensive, and teetered over the edge into full-blown rage.
lemonmoussetart
12-22-2009, 09:21 PM
Hi...yup...JoVanna is an odd one IMHO
she seems like she might be an old meddler, who is somehow on Josh's "side" and can't give up her rose colored glasses when she thinks of the "dear boy"
that "cleaned up a spill" is just weird...were they all eating dinner in the bedroom or what??
Good point. Do we for sure know what room the fans were in? Initially it seems that they were in the bedroom. Later articles pointed to the living room.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 09:24 PM
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Friends-say-Susan-Powell-was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx
right here is the motive... screaming out at us
OH YEAH, THERE IT IS! ita ;)
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:24 PM
Melly53
snipped for space an BBM
Did their argument lead to Susan telling him that she was leaving with the boys and wanted a divorce? I hope not since that would have been a major "trigger" for him
IMO I bet the fight started the night before.
Susan had to go to church with her sons, she had to walk to and from.
Josh probably refused to give her the van.
She came home from church and had JoVonna over for crocheting knowing Josh would not fight with company there. Susan got ill (tired) after a dinner he fixed.
He wanted to look goo in front of JoVonna.
Then he tells only JoVonna his plans for the evening after Susan is in bed!
omegagal
12-22-2009, 09:26 PM
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Friends-say-Susan-Powell-was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx
right here is the motive... screaming out at us
Okay, then this was an LDS Family Services counselor. It speaks volumes and volumes to me.....
Also LDS Family Services hires "unlicensed" people that have completed their masters degrees but need further supervised hours (usually 2 full time years) in order to sit for their professional lincensure exams in their states. Okay, my question is WHO WAS SUPERVISING THIS PERSON? Cause I see a possible professional ethics/liability issue
Okay I've been an administrator in a couple very large psych practices and I can tell you from personal experience, these doctors that do supervision are half butted at best in their supervision. They usually only agree to "supervise" if they are paid for it and/or if they can get the supervisee to do their paperwork, etc around the office.
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Also, maybe during an argument about how Josh didn't go to church as promised, but he could take the kids out sledding, the argument got so heated Susan blurted out that she was done, and wanted a divorce.
Maybe that is what pushed Josh over the edge. Maybe it flashed through his mind that Susan would go on without him, divorce him, marry another man someday, and that he would only see 'his boys' on weekends. That he lost his control over her, finally.
Then, he killed her in a rage.
nervous_nellie
12-22-2009, 09:26 PM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????
nope, i dont think so. this is the first i have heard her ever mention it...hmmm
lemonmoussetart
12-22-2009, 09:30 PM
I can't email you Smart, but nothing new. Just questioning about the rental car, and why LE was not monitoring more closely, where could he have went, etc. It was short.
lonetraveler
12-22-2009, 09:30 PM
what i am getting at is that the cops want him to feel like he is not being followed...i think it would be stupid for him to go any place that would prove to be incriminating, BUT jp is not exactly brilliant either, lol! and if he thought he needed to move her or something he would have to go back...because what if where le has been searching is where he put her? i think he might go back to move the evidence...moo :)
Where do you think JP was the 24 hours he was missing after he rented the car? and racked up hundreds of miles in the 24 hours that he had the car? Just want your view on this. Please.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Let us talk JoVonna for a moment.
And let us talk about those going to the church regularly and those who weren't
OBVIOUSLY Josh wasn't.
Ok..
So.... for some reason JoVonna and Susan's buddy K. (forget how to spell her name) are backing him up like buddies.
Why would they do this in lieu of their friend being missing? The only reason I can think of is that they were not privy to the inside knowledge of the relationship..
Patty G
12-22-2009, 09:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgufA0ZahoE
omegagal
12-22-2009, 09:38 PM
Wonder what her new calling was that would drive him to complete rage??
Somewhere I remember hearing she was the new Relief Society Secretary. That's a nice calling. I bet she enjoyed it...
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:39 PM
Josh must love to drive and have plenty of gas money!
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Somewhere I remember hearing she was the new Relief Society Secretary. That's a nice calling. I bet she enjoyed it...
What is a Relief Society Secretary???
Is this a church job on the side of her regular job?
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Where do you think JP was the 24 hours he was missing after he rented the car? and racked up hundreds of miles in the 24 hours that he had the car? Just want your view on this. Please.
I, of course wonder if he went back to where he left Susan's body- to make sure it was not visible (from the top of a cliff, or something), or to make sure it was still covered, and that animals had not gotten to it.
But, I also wonder the opposite- that Josh may have thought that the rental car did have GPS on it, or that he was being followed, so he drove around aimlessly, just to throw off the cops. Driving around for hours just to confuse the authorities, seems like something he would do, in my opinion.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 09:42 PM
I, of course wonder if he went back to where he left Susan's body- to make sure it was not visible (from the top of a cliff, or something), or to make sure it was still covered, and that animals had not gotten to it.
But, I also wonder the opposite- that Josh may have thought that the rental car did have GPS on it, or that he was being followed, so he drove around aimlessly, just to throw off the cops. Driving around for hours just to confuse the authorities, seems like something he would do, in my opinion.
or go visit someone for comfort???
Melly53
12-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Go back and listen to the JVM segment that Patty just posted. JoVanna says that Josh cleaned up a spill on the "kitchen floor". Since I doubt that their kitchen is carpeted I believe that this is not the wet spot that supposedly had fans blowing on it to dry it out.
MysteryAddict
12-22-2009, 09:43 PM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????
Now Jovanna signals to us our hinky meters have been correct all along!
LE needs to give her a poly exam. Why is she trying to cover for Josh?
I doubt if he will go back to the spot again............JMOO
Perps often return to the scene of the crime. I can't remember how many times LE followed Scott Peterson to the Bay, where he'd just gaze out and then drive home or onto where ever he was going. fwiw, the Bay was 90 miles from his home. He'd just drive by and then go home.
It was creepy,
fran
GingerRed
12-22-2009, 09:45 PM
[QUOTE=SusanB;4594978]
I just saw the case on Jane V-M. The friend Jovanna was on, and said Susan never gave any indication that they were having problems. she painted a pretty picture of the last night when she was over there crocheting. She obviously is on the side of Josh - she said he was soooo nice to her that night, put a blanket on her cause she was cold, cooked a nice dinner for her, cleaned up the dishes, and even made it a point to say "he cleaned up a spill from dinner that was on the floor." Weird remark - I think she was trying to elude about the wet carpet/fans.
QUOTE]
pancakes and scrambled eggs = nice dinner?
She has NEVER mentioned the spill before, and I'll tell you--that woman can't get enough of the news cameras, can she? And never ONCE has she mentioned the spill.
Before I thought the whole Jovanna issue was much ado about nothing. Now I'm really not so sure.
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Come to think of it- Josh had to have known that the mileage on a rental car is noted at the time it is rented, and again at the time it was returned. Just about everyone knows that, right?
The more I think of it, the more I am certain that Josh just drove as many miles in it as he could to confuse the authorities.
He probably made a point of driving in a different direction than where he left her body, for the same reason.
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 09:48 PM
or go visit someone for comfort???
But, wouldn't he be a bit paranoid that he was being tracked or followed? (I know I would, if I were him, lol).
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:49 PM
after that video I have to say that I want to spank JoVononna! I have more adjectives for her but respectively restrain from using them at this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A TONGUE HOLDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 09:51 PM
the spill she mentioned in the kitchen was NOT THE ONE IN THE LIVING ROOM... no way...
JoVonna... go home!!!!!!
Melly53
12-22-2009, 09:51 PM
She does seem to love her new found fame. JoVanna saw exactly what Josh wanted her to see in the home that night. A caring, attentive, loving husband to his wife. Someone that you would never suspect of killing is wife. She is his character witness.
I have no doubts that JoVanna was NOT privy to the truth of the marriage or the problems they were having. JMO
lemonmoussetart
12-22-2009, 09:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgufA0ZahoE
{{{{PattiG}}}} thank you again for posting the clip, as always we can count on you.
2 things I noted after actually listening to the interview:
JoVonna said that Josh made dinner---never heard her use the word nice.
The big one is that she said he spilled something on the kitchen floor. Unless they have carpeting in their kitchen, this would just be as easy cleanup--no fans necessary for that.
adnoid
12-22-2009, 09:59 PM
But, wouldn't he be a bit paranoid that he was being tracked or followed? (I know I would, if I were him, lol).
Think back to all the calls Scott Peterson made to Amber Frey after he knew the police knew about her.
After reading here for years (and watching a few episodes of "COPS") I no longer use the term "criminal mastermind" in any context.
LogicalMinds
12-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Okay, then this was an LDS Family Services counselor. It speaks volumes and volumes to me.....
Also LDS Family Services hires "unlicensed" people that have completed their masters degrees but need further supervised hours (usually 2 full time years) in order to sit for their professional lincensure exams in their states. Okay, my question is WHO WAS SUPERVISING THIS PERSON? Cause I see a possible professional ethics/liability issue
Okay I've been an administrator in a couple very large psych practices and I can tell you from personal experience, these doctors that do supervision are half butted at best in their supervision. They usually only agree to "supervise" if they are paid for it and/or if they can get the supervisee to do their paperwork, etc around the office.
Interesting insights...thanks..
OT : on the Elizabeth Olten thread some of us (me me LOL) have wondered if perhaps Allyssa Bustamente was getting "therapy" thru her Gma's (Mormon) church??? Would they provide therapy /counseling for depressed teen??
thanks :)
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 10:01 PM
Somewhere I remember hearing she was the new Relief Society Secretary. That's a nice calling. I bet she enjoyed it...
I'm not sure what a 'Relief Society Secretary' is, but I believe you when you say it was a nice position to have.
Which tells me it was yet another reason for Josh to be jealous of Susan, and her obvious successes.
I can just picture his envy and rage perculating and finally boiling over.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 10:02 PM
exactly.. it wasn't a carpet spill.. Wonder if JoVonna was drugged and she is still being drugged (ooooooh... did I GO THERE??)
I am now convinced that other than her being there that night, JoVonna has NO CLUE into what happened that night in terms of the inner dynamics.
She, Ms JoVonna, was CLUELESS. She may have brushed the collar of death but she didn't know she was doing it. She really didn't. I rather think Josh had her under his control.
It is all good. Let us hope that the truth really prevails. It did tonght in the case of Ms O'Connell. She took up the better half of my prayer day.. when after hearing she was hiding out.. it would have been better spent on Susan.
I feel guilt for this.
I hope that in the future I can have better feelings about who needs the prayers of my family and who does not. Susuan still does.. and she has it and will have it untl she comes home. Bless you Susan and your family... Consider it done... but JoVonna.. stay back!
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 10:04 PM
Think back to all the calls Scott Peterson made to Amber Frey after he knew the police knew about her.
After reading here for years (and watching a few episodes of "COPS") I no longer use the term "criminal mastermind" in any context.
Good point.
(And, nice hair, Adnoid).
omegagal
12-22-2009, 10:05 PM
What is a Relief Society Secretary???
Is this a church job on the side of her regular job?
A calling is the church job you are assigned to do. It is not paid. In the church congregation, most serve in some capacity. The woman's organization is the Relief Society. I won't get into what that group is and does but you can google it. The RS has a president, two counselors (assistants) and a secretary. It's a nice calling and would be given to somebody that can handle responsibility and I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) must hold a current temple recommend. I know at least the RS presidency (the other 3 women) must.
adnoid
12-22-2009, 10:07 PM
after that video I have to say that I want to spank JoVononna!...
Not me. I eat with these hands.
LogicalMinds
12-22-2009, 10:07 PM
It is all good. Let us hope that the truth really prevails. It did tonght in the case of Ms O'Connell. She took up the better half of my prayer day.. when after hearing she was hiding out.. it would have been better spent on Susan.
I feel guilt for this.
I hope that in the future I can have better feelings about who needs the prayers of my family and who does not. Susuan still does.. and she has it and will have it untl she comes home. Bless you Susan and your family... Consider it done... but JoVonna.. stay back!
(respectfully snipped)
(((hugs))) to you NurseBeeme.....as you say it is "all good"...your prayers were answered for Katie....and what she didn't "need" I am sure went to others who do need them
hang in there
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 10:12 PM
'if you love me you will give me the remote' that is what is drifting up from my basement... but yet i know they love each other. not like this susan powell case. there was no love there. it was hollow. they really did not love one another. the high stress period between thanksvgiving and christmas.... well that is high stress. do we know how he spent thanksgiving and how it played out? bet you a hundred hot wings it was with his sister and her husband and it was the usual short lived emotional encounter as always.
media go check it out.
What we have now is a woman missing who CRIED OUT her fears. Lest us not forget them. Let us nail them to the one who perpetrated them.. and wonder if that same perp would be the one who caused her to go missing from her house two weeks ago? hmmmm????????? If I had to bet.. well give me all the blue and red chips. even the yellow ones. pass em.. and than Josh.. you better tell where you put her.
mysticrose
12-22-2009, 10:12 PM
Can anyone here handy with maps do a hundred mile radius in a red circle with West Valley City in the center ? That would give us an idea of an area
passionflower
12-22-2009, 10:13 PM
A calling is the church job you are assigned to do. It is not paid. In the church congregation, most serve in some capacity. The woman's organization is the Relief Society. I won't get into what that group is and does but you can google it. The RS has a president, two counselors (assistants) and a secretary. It's a nice calling and would be given to somebody that can handle responsibility and I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) must hold a current temple recommend. I know at least the RS presidency (the other 3 women) must.
I think I understand, this was a good placement for women of the faith and made her more of a higher church member something that could make Josh even madder since he was against the church and jealous of Susan's advancements in life!
omegagal
12-22-2009, 10:13 PM
Interesting insights...thanks..
OT : on the Elizabeth Olten thread some of us (me me LOL) have wondered if perhaps Allyssa Bustamente was getting "therapy" thru her Gma's (Mormon) church??? Would they provide therapy /counseling for depressed teen??
thanks :)
I'm not at all familiar with that case but yes, they could offer that service to a teen that needed counseling as well with the parent's consent. Please understand, those services are NOT free. The person would pay for the counseling services or in some cases the ward (through the congregation's fast offerings/tithes) would assist them with the cost if the person could not afford it on their own.
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 10:20 PM
I don't know.. but "several hundred" could, to me, mean between 200-300 plus miles...
I think he killed her and took this car back out to the site he killed her. He either went to check and see if anyone else had figured it out or to make sure his hiding place was still safe.
(snip, bbm) I feel sure she was more likely poisoned or killed by some means right there in the home, and he took the boys along to dispose of their mother (knowing they were too young to realize their mother was with them for initial part of that first trip, much less expired). Since there's often a kernel of truth in the statements made by these sickos I think Josh said he "wouldn't know where to begin to look," because it was a water disposal. If you use radial circumpherence mapping tool based upon estimated max. of 500 miles RT eg (250 or roughly 4 hrs ea way) you can easily see the vast stretch, the scope of possibilities LE's looking at... geez it could have been anywhere from to Grand Junction CO to Idaho Falls but you've got water everywhere around right there in Utah--and not all of it freezes (locals?) If it was a moving river eg he really may not be exactly sure where she is any longer. :mad:
The second trip--in loaner--could well have been to see if she'd resurfaced. You know, kinda like Scott P gazing out over they bay :sick: it's unlikely JP did but if he made it as far as Lk Tahoe that first trip who knows, they might wind up cellies. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm160jail.gif
:parrot:
omegagal
12-22-2009, 10:24 PM
I think I understand, this was a good placement for women of the faith and made her more of a higher church member something that could make Josh even madder since he was against the church and jealous of Susan's advancements in life!
Of faith and fun... Relief Society is a charitable as well as social organization. It was probably the RS that hosted the breakfast at the church the Saturday morning before she went missing....
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 10:24 PM
Not me. I eat with these hands.
Jovonna makes me want to stich up the sides of her mouth to start with.
After that it would be rated. Overall to me jovonna holds nothing in this case. imhoo.
she is just a funny looking connundrum in this case. She is nothing other than that. And most likely she, at the time was a wrench in the murder of Susan.
omegagal
12-22-2009, 10:26 PM
(snip, bbm) I feel sure she was more likely poisoned or killed by some means right there in the home, and he took the boys along to dispose of their mother (knowing they were too young to realize their mother was with them for initial part of that first trip much less expired). Since there's often a kernel of truth in the statements made by these sickos, I think Josh said he "wouldn't know where to begin to look," because it was a water disposal. If you use radial circumpherence mapping tool based upon estimated max. of 500 miles RT eg (250 or roughly 4 hrs ea way) you can easily see the vast stretch, the scope of possibilities LE's looking at... geez it could have been anywhere from to Grand Junction CO to Idaho Falls but you've got water everywhere around right there in Utah--and not all of it freezes (locals?) If it was a moving river eg he really may not be exactly sure where she is any longer. :mad:
The second trip--in loaner--could well have been to see if she'd resurfaced. You know, kinda like Scott P gazing out over they bay... it's unlikely he did but if JP made it as far as Lake Tahoe who knows, they might wind up as cellies. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm160jail.gif
:parrot:
I've always thought water as well making it look like a suicide is my suspicion with an overdose of meds in her blood stream..
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 10:29 PM
Ooooh.... good thinking, kiki!
There is alot of water in the surrounding area. Most, if not all, of the lakes would be frozen over at this time of year, but what if he cut into the ice and slipped her body into the frigid waters below? (Not a very good plan, actually, because when the ice melts, the body would surface....).
But, further south would make sense, and the running river idea is intriguing.
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 10:32 PM
Can anyone here handy with maps do a hundred mile radius in a red circle with West Valley City in the center ? That would give us an idea of an area.
I happened to have saved the 150 mi one I did earlier, hth.
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=40.693134153308094&clng=-111.99462890625&r=482.80&n=75&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=00FF00
ETA This is a convenient tool that's easy to experiment w varying distances.
:parrot:
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 10:36 PM
Does the extreme salt content in the Great Salt Lakes prevent these lakes from freezing? (sometimes I wish I'd paid more attention in school).
mysticrose
12-22-2009, 10:38 PM
I happened to have saved the 150 mi one I did earlier, hth.
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=40.693134153308094&clng=-111.99462890625&r=482.80&n=75&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=00FF00
ETA This is a convenient tool that's easy to experiment w varying distances.
:parrot:
Kiki thank you...:blowkiss:
mysticrose
12-22-2009, 10:40 PM
Does the extreme salt content in the Great Salt Lakes prevent these lakes from freezing? (sometimes I wish I'd paid more attention in school).
I don't believe the Great Salt Lake ever freezes over...I also think if he put her in there that her body would certainly float due to all the salt makes a body more buoyant..
He could have weighted her down though...
adnoid
12-22-2009, 10:41 PM
Does the extreme salt content in the Great Salt Lakes prevent these lakes from freezing? (sometimes I wish I'd paid more attention in school).
That and the size - Lake Tahoe is fresh water but does not freeze.
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 10:42 PM
Ooooh.... good thinking, kiki!
There is alot of water in the surrounding area. Most, if not all, of the lakes would be frozen over at this time of year, but what if he cut into the ice and slipped her body into the frigid waters below? (Not a very good plan, actually, because when the ice melts, the body would surface....).
But, further south would make sense, and the running river idea is intriguing.
Does Great Salt Lake eg ever freeze tho...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Salt_Lake_effect
:parrot:
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 10:44 PM
I don't believe the Great Salt Lake ever freezes over...I also think if he put her in there that her body would certainly float due to all the salt makes a body more buoyant..
He could have weighted her down though...
(bbm) Naturally :rolleyes: and I see now most believe the Salt Lake never freezes... not to mention it's like the size of an ocean.
:parrot:
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Sure hope JP isn't like an ice-fisherman or something... why did he need the generator along anyway? And about those frostbitten hands... :waitasec:
:parrot:
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 10:53 PM
(bbm) Naturally :rolleyes: and I see now most realize the Salt Lake never freezes... not to mention it's like the size of an ocean.
:parrot:
So, are you saying the ocean doesn't freeze over, either? (just kidding)
I still think he threw her body over a cliff, or into a ravine somewhere.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 10:59 PM
So, are you saying the ocean doesn't freeze over, either? (just kidding)
I still think he threw her body over a cliff, or into a ravine somewhere.
I still vote quick dump, like cliff or ravine also
Has any profilers or body language studied Josh yet???
Like lies?
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 11:00 PM
If JP IS planning to confess but purposely postponing this until after his little holiday, sorry but I don't see how he can just SIT there and pretend everything's all yuletide carols, turkey and mistletoe... it might be time to roast some chestnuts on an open fire tho :rolleyes:
:parrot:
kiki the parrot
12-22-2009, 11:07 PM
So, are you saying the ocean doesn't freeze over, either? (just kidding)
I still think he threw her body over a cliff, or into a ravine somewhere.
I still vote quick dump, like cliff or ravine also
Has any profilers or body language studied Josh yet???
Like lies?
Smartie I see where you got your name, lol... :crazy:
ITA re cliff/ravine. Show me a fast-moving river... w a bridge that passes over... and I'll show you a "perfect spot."
Is there a large piece of the family's luggage missing? Maybe set of weights.
:parrot:
Fairy1
12-22-2009, 11:08 PM
I'm really hoping LE has some clue about where Josh went in that rental car. I'm thinking he went back and moved her. I can't imagine he would have done a very good job the first time what with two babies in the car, a storm bearing down and it being the middle of the night. Idiot.
passionflower
12-22-2009, 11:12 PM
I happened to have saved the 150 mi one I did earlier, hth.
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=40.693134153308094&clng=-111.99462890625&r=482.80&n=75&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=00FF00
ETA This is a convenient tool that's easy to experiment w varying distances.
:parrot:
seeing the maps makes me ill...........so many states!!
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:15 PM
so I am still here and people are wishing happy cheer and things are happy.. I am concerned. However happy for the rest of you. I guess this was set up. no problem. I am used to suffering
GingerRed
12-22-2009, 11:22 PM
seeing the maps makes me ill...........so many states!!
Looking at that map, I wondered if he went the route NW up through Idaho. The reason? That's how you'd drive to Puyallup, WA. It's a distinct possibility he knows that route well. Know the deserted spots. And if he decided to keep running........
Just a thought, of course. First thing that popped into my head when I saw it.
smart blonde
12-22-2009, 11:23 PM
The more I think about it, kiki, the more I see your point- he may very well have thrown her over a bridge into a river or stream. That would also satisfy my 'vision' (more like imagining) of him tossing her body over a cliff.
Now, if we only had the direction that he went in as a starting point.
For some reason, I get the feeling he has little fear of her body being discovered, and this really worries me.
mysticrose
12-22-2009, 11:25 PM
so I am still here and people are wishing happy cheer and things are happy.. I am concerned. However happy for the rest of you. I guess this was set up. no problem. I am used to suffering
Nurse...are you OK....I think I missed something...
angeleleven
12-22-2009, 11:29 PM
Nurse...are you OK....I think I missed something...
Me, too!
nadjatheresa
12-22-2009, 11:31 PM
It's really interesting that dinner was pancakes, syrup and scrambled eggs and I wonder if Jovanna was able to tell LE whether he served Susan pancakes with the syrup already on them or if she poured it herself from a bottle everyone else used. It would be so easy to conceal the taste of ground up pills or any kind of poison in syrup. It's almost easier than any other food I can think of.
Look at kid's medicines, for example. Most of them are medicines in corn syrup, aren't they? And maple syrup tastes better than corn syrup.
Fairy1
12-22-2009, 11:35 PM
so I am still here and people are wishing happy cheer and things are happy.. I am concerned. However happy for the rest of you. I guess this was set up. no problem. I am used to suffering
??? Have you been sippin the eggnog dear one?
SuziQ
12-22-2009, 11:38 PM
JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????
Nope. Her claim is very transparent. What she gonna do when the spill comes back as blood or something else nefarious and she has placed herself there while Josh was cleaning it up? Rut roh!
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:44 PM
Nurse...are you OK....I think I missed something...
actually no I am not ok.... I think I am internalizing too much. thanks for asking. sorry fo the diatribe.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:45 PM
??? Have you been sippin the eggnog dear one?
no.. just trying to follow to many sad stories.. sorry for the confuson I caused.
SuziQ
12-22-2009, 11:45 PM
Somewhere I remember hearing she was the new Relief Society Secretary. That's a nice calling. I bet she enjoyed it...
That was my daughters calling as well. She loved it. It was for a mostly singles ward on BYU campus.
omegagal
12-22-2009, 11:46 PM
Interesting article posted in seattlepi.com Dec. 8, 2004 Where marital counseling gone wrong. Marital counselors are not skilled in abnormal psychology... And Josh is not normal...
http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/202728_seth08.html
Murders a devastating punishment
By SETH ELLNER
GUEST COLUMNIST
I was so saddened to read about the murder of Kelsey and Hayley Byrne by their father, Steve Byrne. I was equally troubled by the Post-Intelligencer news article titled "Clues to killings -- but no answers" (Nov. 24), followed by the rest of the story under the heading, "KILLINGS: 'I don't know for sure if we'll ever know.' "
The article describes Byrne as a wonderful man with beautiful daughters whom he loved very much. There is even a statement from his sister, a domestic violence advocate, that family members saw no warning signs in their brother.
There was no mention of the effect of this horrible murder-suicide on Suzanne Dawson, the children's mother. Tragically, I believe, there are answers to this tragedy.
In my opinion -- as someone who co-directs a domestic violence perpetrator intervention program and specializes in the effect of domestic violence on children -- Byrne was the most dangerous kind of domestic violence batterer. That is one who murders his own children as a means of retaliation against his (ex-)wife for not getting what he wants.
In the article, it stated that Byrne was unwilling to accept the advice of a marital counselor and examine the effects of his angry outbursts on his children. The counselor observed Byrne's angry outbursts, sometimes directed at Dawson, with an intensity so physically intimidating that the counselor herself said she "remain(ed) concerned about my safety from Steve Byrne." Angry outbursts to the point where a therapist and/or intimate partner are afraid for their physical safety are a major red flag for possible domestic violence. A referral for a domestic violence intervention is recommended even if there has not been any apparent physical violence. The state's legal definition of domestic violence does include "fear of imminent harm" even in the absence of physical violence, and for good reason as we can see in this case.
SuziQ
12-22-2009, 11:51 PM
I happened to have saved the 150 mi one I did earlier, hth.
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=40.693134153308094&clng=-111.99462890625&r=482.80&n=75&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=00FF00
ETA This is a convenient tool that's easy to experiment w varying distances.
:parrot:
Thank you. That's a great map. But dang, that's depressing to look at. Susan could be anywhere.
nursebeeme
12-22-2009, 11:53 PM
I have deleted my nasty post.. sorry for the confusion. I was emotional. I still am. but that is okay.
That map... Susan could be literally anywhere.
How sad for her family.
SuziQ
12-22-2009, 11:53 PM
Does the extreme salt content in the Great Salt Lakes prevent these lakes from freezing? (sometimes I wish I'd paid more attention in school).
Just drove by it on Sunday and it was frozen as far out as I could see.
nadjatheresa
12-22-2009, 11:56 PM
I think there was no way the counseling could work because, clearly, Josh didn't have competent life skills and the deadline for developing them to prevent divorce would only make things worse.
What I wonder is if he even really had a new job. The articles all say he did not call in to work, but according to whom? We know for sure Susan didn't call in, and coworkers have commented.
I might have missed this. Has anyone else seen a quote from the new employer or definite confirmation of the new job?
Thanks.
Fairy1
12-22-2009, 11:57 PM
no.. just trying to follow to many sad stories.. sorry for the confuson I caused.
No worries - just want to make sure you're ok. :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:
Fairy1
12-23-2009, 12:00 AM
Just drove by it on Sunday and it was frozen as far out as I could see.
Really? I honestly didn't believe that was possible! Thanks SuziQ. Does it seem like a logical (such as it is) spot for JP to have gone?
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:03 AM
Ok so here is a map with a 100 mile raidus from West Valley City, UT
Does anyone recall if LE mentioned mud or anything of that nature on the van ? I would think if he was down around Pony Express there would have been some mud on the van in the wheel wells and such...Thinking out loud
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=40.691613&clng=-112.00105&r=160.93&n=75&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=FF0000
omegagal
12-23-2009, 12:05 AM
Chuck Cox just posted on Friends and Family of Susan Powell FB page:
Susan where ever you are, in Heavenly fathers arms or being watched over by angels until you are found and reunited.... we love you and will not give up searching. Stay strong.
Makes me just want to sob...
Fairy1
12-23-2009, 12:06 AM
Sorry if I missed this, but do we know what type of vehicle the rental was? I ask because I had said before I don't think he could have gone too far off road in the minivan. Wherever he took Susan couldn't have been too far off the beaten path, IMO. If he was able to get there, so are others - KWIM? Hunters, snowmobilers, hikers, cross-country skiers, etc.
Obviously Jovanna was not REALLY Susan's friend. She was just a neighbor, church buddy, sometime babsitter and knitting buddy. Other than that, she was basically just an 'acquaintance.' She must feel somewhat betrayed by Susan who she thought was a friend and who had so much going on in her life. Yet she was not a confidant but her neighbor Mr. Peterson was. Ooohhh, that must really smart her pride. No wonder she appeared in that video with such a sour face.
OTOH, we've learned today that Susan had said that Josh had until the end of the year (ehhh...that would be pretty much about now), to fully commit to the church. Completely........and we KNOW that didn't happen. As a matter of fact, he didn't go to church that last Sunday,................yet Susan went with the boys.....Yep!!!!!! Time was ticking to an end for Josh and I wouldn't be at all surprised that Susan, who her friends had said had started sticking up to her husband, reminded him he'd just about - or had, run out of time.
Wonder if there was a HUGE fight that last Sunday, prior to Jovanna arriving to work on a project with Susan. A BIG, BIG fight where Josh lost his temper. You know how this goes? He may have said or done something pretty horrible. But then Jovanna arrives, tempers calm, and for anyone who's ever been in an abusive relationship,................well, you remember the 'honeymoon period?' You know, right after that big blow out and he knows he's in {deep do do} and he wines, dines, sweet talks, sometimes sends flowers,.................and everything is all nice-nice,...............until the NEXT TIME!!
Sure Josh was nice as could be when Jovanne was there that night. Wow, he was sooooo attentive! He even made dinner, did the dishes, took care of the kids and even brought Susan a blanket when she got cold. But then,.............Susan (not quite her jovial self,) feigned fatigue and excused herself to her bed. Josh being the attentive husband he was, knew she was still angry, so he brushed off Jovanne by telling her he was taking the boys sledding. (in the dark, no less!)
Yep, Jovanne left and the saga continues. Josh finds that Susan was not taken in by his act of contrition that he NEVER follows up (didn't go to church like he promised) and that his 'ACT' of love and concern was just that,.............an ACT!
But Susan was fed up! This was it! She wasn't going to continue this any more. They were finished! His BS wasn't going to get what he wanted with her anymore. She stood up to him one last time! One last time!
Josh,..............where did you put Susan?
fran
lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 12:09 AM
Let us talk JoVonna for a moment.
And let us talk about those going to the church regularly and those who weren't
OBVIOUSLY Josh wasn't.
Ok..
So.... for some reason JoVonna and Susan's buddy K. (forget how to spell her name) are backing him up like buddies.
Why would they do this in lieu of their friend being missing? The only reason I can think of is that they were not privy to the inside knowledge of the relationship..
JMO of course, but Kiirsi is questioning Josh's story, and has been for some time publicly. In the very beginning she was polite along with the Cox family. She is/was Susan's best friend from all that I've read.
As for JoVonna tonight on JVM she seemed timid to me. She said that Susan and Josh seemed fine, and mentioned the blanket that Josh got for Susan. Also that he cooked dinner. Both of which Susan thanked him for. To me that is just "company face" that we all do. Know how your just nicer, and more polite in front of company? Especially those that you do not know well.
I feel we need to remember the shows that JoVonna has actually been on: they are not 60 Minutes or Oprah. They are news shows that pay for appearances. Have no clue how much, but I would imagine fairly well for a couple of minutes of commentary. I think it entirely possible that this is JoVonna's only motive.
Fairy1
12-23-2009, 12:11 AM
Chuck Cox just posted on Friends and Family of Susan Powell FB page:
Susan where ever you are, in Heavenly fathers arms or being watched over by angels until you are found and reunited.... we love you and will not give up searching. Stay strong.
Makes me just want to sob...
Oh dear. My heart just aches for Susan's family. JOSH - TELL THEM WHERE SHE IS YOU F-ING POS!!!
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:14 AM
Sorry if I missed this, but do we know what type of vehicle the rental was? I ask because I had said before I don't think he could have gone too far off road in the minivan. Wherever he took Susan couldn't have been too far off the beaten path, IMO. If he was able to get there, so are others - KWIM? Hunters, snowmobilers, hikers, cross-country skiers, etc.
There is a interview with Josh that shows him getting out of the car he rented...I'll go find it:
Here it is, that is his rental car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8
smart blonde
12-23-2009, 12:14 AM
Minor point, I guess, but, was it said that Josh brought Susan a blanket when Susan got cold, or did Josh bring a blanket to JoVonna when JoVonna got cold?
I thought it was stated he brought a blanket to JoVonna? (which seems weird to me if Susan was the one not feeling well).
LogicalMinds
12-23-2009, 12:15 AM
I think there was no way the counseling could work because, clearly, Josh didn't have competent life skills and the deadline for developing them to prevent divorce would only make things worse.
What I wonder is if he even really had a new job. The articles all say he did not call in to work, but according to whom? We know for sure Susan didn't call in, and coworkers have commented.
I might have missed this. Has anyone else seen a quote from the new employer or definite confirmation of the new job?
Thanks.
Excellent point, and one I have been asking about
I have felt from the start this was about Susan telling him that this was the end...either saying "now you have a job so you can move out and support yourself, I want a divorce"...OR , as you suggest, finding out there was NO new job...OR ...Josh deciding he didn't want to go to work after all, and Susan told him it was "over, I want a divorce"
I read on one of the recent "aquaintences" interviews where they said Josh had "been out of work a long time"
the bankruptcy was apparently his, one year he netted $1400....he had 2 ridiculous ugly websites, they look like a teen made them 10 years ago, really amateur hour websites....we don't even know when he was in "IT" for the trucking company or how long that lasted...he might have been fired
oh yeah...he made an ugly, clumsy cheap looking website for his brother's political campaign
what a loo loooo looooser....I am just so sorry that Susan didn't gather the kids, her family and church family around her and make her break publicly
statistically these control freak guys are most dangerous when the woman finally says "this is it, it's over, I want out for good"...then they flip
and Josh is a real flipper JMO
Fairy1
12-23-2009, 12:17 AM
There is a interview with Josh that shows him getting out of the car he rented...I'll go find it:
Here it is, that is his rental car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8)
Thank you so much - doesn't look like much of a 4-wheeler, does it? And BTW, where did he get money to rent a car? He gets pizzed when his wife buys Christmas presents for their boys, but somehow he has $ to rent a vehicle?
nadjatheresa
12-23-2009, 12:19 AM
There is a interview with Josh that shows him getting out of the car he rented...I'll go find it:
Here it is, that is his rental car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8
Oh, thank you. I was just posting a question to ask if this is the rental car, but then hit refresh instead of post.
Now, this is the footage that LE subpoenaed. At the beginning you get a good shot of the front of the car and I had wondered if they took the tape to try and examine the car for some information.
nadjatheresa
12-23-2009, 12:22 AM
Excellent point, and one I have been asking about
I have felt from the start this was about Susan telling him that this was the end...either saying "now you have a job so you can move out and support yourself, I want a divorce"...OR , as you suggest, finding out there was NO new job... <....>
(snipped)
Yes, just like there was no medical school.
Minor point, I guess, but, was it said that Josh brought Susan a blanket when Susan got cold, or did Josh bring a blanket to JoVonna when JoVonna got cold?
I thought it was stated he brought a blanket to JoVonna? (which seems weird to me if Susan was the one not feeling well).
We at first heard it was Jovanne he brought the blanket for, but from this latest video, it's apparently Susan he brought the blanket for. Just a misunderstanding, and apparently minor. LOL, he did bring a blanket into the room! :)
fran
I thought all of the new rental cars had a gps. I wonder why this one didn't? Or did it and he somehow disabled it?
Just curious,
fran
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:24 AM
I think there was no way the counseling could work because, clearly, Josh didn't have competent life skills and the deadline for developing them to prevent divorce would only make things worse.
What I wonder is if he even really had a new job. The articles all say he did not call in to work, but according to whom? We know for sure Susan didn't call in, and coworkers have commented.
I might have missed this. Has anyone else seen a quote from the new employer or definite confirmation of the new job?
Thanks.
This may be a bit OT but I agree with the bold. My Ex was a narcissistic butthead among otherthings I won't go into but the first time we went to a counselor, when we were walking out of the office,after our session, he turned and said " your paying him off aren't you "....can you friggin believe that !!!! I told him "yeah, I slipped him a twenty when you weren't looking".....OMG
It just does not work trying to reason with men like that....
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:25 AM
I thought all of the new rental cars had a gps. I wonder why this one didn't? Or did it and he somehow disabled it?
Just curious,
fran
After his van was taken by police under a search warrant, Powell rented a car at the Salt Lake Airport for the day. West Valley Police Captain Tom McLachlan said, "We do know a car was rented in his name and several hundred miles were put on it. Unfortunately, we don't have any GPS data. The company that rented the car doesn't store that data."
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Josh-Powell-puts-several-hundred-miles-on-rental/h1Q-Q0MW302LY8msQiSTWw.cspx
After his van was taken by police under a search warrant, Powell rented a car at the Salt Lake Airport for the day. West Valley Police Captain Tom McLachlan said, "We do know a car was rented in his name and several hundred miles were put on it. Unfortunately, we don't have any GPS data. The company that rented the car doesn't store that data."
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Josh-Powell-puts-several-hundred-miles-on-rental/h1Q-Q0MW302LY8msQiSTWw.cspx
That honestly doesn't make any sense. They couldn't get rid of the info so quickly. He just had the car a week or so ago. They probably have it on computer files.
oh well..............
fran
kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 12:29 AM
Nope. Her claim is very transparent. What she gonna do when the spill comes back as blood or something else nefarious and she has placed herself there while Josh was cleaning it up? Rut roh!
Suzi, fran, or can anybody tell me in which interview (article/video) her friends take up for JP? Musta missed that one.
:parrot:
nadjatheresa
12-23-2009, 12:32 AM
This may be a bit OT but I agree with the bold. My Ex was a narcissistic butthead among otherthings I won't go into but the first time we went to a counselor, when we were walking out of the office,after our session, he turned and said " your paying him off aren't you "....can you friggin believe that !!!! I told him "yeah, I slipped him a twenty when you weren't looking".....OMG
It just does not work trying to reason with men like that....
Yes. And besides the narcissism thing, if JP couldn't maintain a job or manage money, then what he needed was some counseling to develop functional life skills, not classic marriage counseling.
A counselor might get him to agree to make some changes but if he doesn't know how to make them, what can happen?
Meantime, while the counselor might have been optimistic, poor Susan probably knew all along that Josh's promises would never come to fruition.
And the more I think about it, it seems if he really DID have a new job, and really HAD met that deadline, then he would have GONE to work and Susan would have been HAPPY.
Instead, it seems like it all hit the fan Sunday.
Suzi, fran, or can anybody tell me in which interview (article/video) her friends take up for JP? Musta missed that one.
:parrot:
It's post 132, a few pages back posted by PattyG
fran
nadjatheresa
12-23-2009, 12:37 AM
After his van was taken by police under a search warrant, Powell rented a car at the Salt Lake Airport for the day. West Valley Police Captain Tom McLachlan said, "We do know a car was rented in his name and several hundred miles were put on it. Unfortunately, we don't have any GPS data. The company that rented the car doesn't store that data."
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Josh-Powell-puts-several-hundred-miles-on-rental/h1Q-Q0MW302LY8msQiSTWw.cspx
You almost have to think LE was tracking him and knows exactly where he went. It's not believable that he wasn't under surveillance.
If that's true, then they want Josh to think they didn't follow him and can't figure out where he went.
And if that's the case, why do they want him to think that? There must be a reason.
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:41 AM
You almost have to think LE was tracking him and knows exactly where he went. It's not believable that he wasn't under surveillance.
If that's true, then they want Josh to think they didn't follow him and can't figure out where he went.
And if that's the case, why do they want him to think that? There must be a reason.
I hope the reason is because they are closing in on him and want to question him so that he may slip up and they can catch him in another lie.
LE sure seems to be very open with the fact that they don't know what's going on, I'm not sure I buy it, I certainly hope they have more then what they are saying...perhaps they are worried he might hurt the children or perhaps run or both...
Pretty much a rehash of previous articles. About the only new thing I saw was Wayne has been receiving some pretty 'harsh' criticism for sticking up for his buddy Josh.
Oh, and Mr. Cox, Susan's dad, said everyone should try and do a good deed over the Holidays for Susan.
JMHO
fran
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14051696
Friend defends Susan Powell's husband
A week after Susan Powell disappeared, her husband was in the worst state of bereavement that Wayne Hamberg had ever seen.
Hamberg, who met with Joshua Powell on Dec. 15, said his friend was capable of tying a shoelace and that's about it.
<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Paulette
12-23-2009, 12:43 AM
Why would his hands be nearly frostbitten? Because he'd had them in water or spent a considerable time in the cold without gloves. Why would he do that in the middle of the night? He must have encountered hard earth when digging a hole deep enough to bury her. You don't get frostbite from throwing someone off a bridge.
kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 12:45 AM
Just drove by it on Sunday and it was frozen as far out as I could see.
Ok and even if there are portions of shoreline which aren't frozen, access would presumably be limited in winter. Thinking there must be major rivers w water flowing year round or he just drove til he found some. When there are those kind of stakes--someone who's gonna be directly linked to a crime--they're just gonna keep driving and driving til that opportunity knocks. And when it's snowing hard, the snow it seems is gonna keep covering your tracks including tires, wheel wells, and any soil LE might hope to recover.
:parrot:
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:47 AM
Mystery haunts Susan Powell's friendBy Lee Benson
Deseret News
Published: Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 10:21 p.m. MST
<snip>
She and her husband, John, were — are — especially close friends of Susan Powell and her husband, Josh. They met five and a half years ago when the Powells bought a house in the same working-class neighborhood on the west side of the Salt Lake Valley just eight months after the Hellewells moved in.
"Something just clicked," says Kiirsi. "We got very close."
<snip>
Equally frustrating is the enigma that is Josh Powell. In the days after Susan disappeared, right up until he took his two sons to Washington to elude the media and police and be with family over the holidays, Susan's husband took regular refuge in Kiirsi's front room, alternating between sobbing and setting up a Web site to help in the investigation.
He never finished either one.
"I just so wanted to ask him so many questions," says Kiirsi. "But I didn't know how."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353538/Mystery-haunts-Susans-friend.html
sunsetbeach
12-23-2009, 12:48 AM
This may have been said before but I notice that every time someone tries to pinpoint where he was that night or something about Susan he always says " I gotta, I gotta go get my boys" or "I just have to go get my boys, I'm sorry" ... that is his way of avoiding the ????'s. Guilty as sin.
lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 12:49 AM
Why would his hands be nearly frostbitten? Because he'd had them in water or spent a considerable time in the cold without gloves. Why would he do that in the middle of the night? He must have encountered hard earth when digging a hole deep enough to bury her. You don't get frostbite from throwing someone off a bridge.
I think you're on to something there :waitasec:
SusanB
12-23-2009, 12:51 AM
I still think that LE has a lot that we do not know about. But if they did have the GPS on that rental car, this case would have been solved, IMO, because I am sure that is where JP went during that 24 hours. Either to make sure the body was still safe, to move it to a better spot, or to hide it better. Very common action with murderers.
Has he explained to anyone his story about where he went that day w/ rental car?
I think the motive has gotten pretty clear. Susan gave him the ultimatum to put up or shut up. He did not start attending church. As a matter of fact, he did not attend that Sunday, she had to go alone w/the boys.
That may have been the last straw for Susan, and talked divorce that day.
Backup info is coming out slowly about his abuse, control issues, and her contemplating divorce.
That silly Sunday get together to play crochet meant nothing. Joshy put on a great facade as the loving husband. Susan put on her "company" face, Jovanna was not really a close friend.
From then on, we've gotten a lot of awesome scenarios here, but its tough to actually figure out JP's actions logistically.
I think he may not even have had a job. He was a poor provider at all levels. He also lied a lot.
I wish it could be figured out the most logical dumping ground for her body. It hinges from the mileage put on that rental car, but still what a vast area, impossible to search. But - I keep bringing it up - there MUST be some video surveillance somewhere that puts him at a particular place at some point! No one has brought forth any, but that would sure help to pinpoint an area.
What Mr. Cox wrote on her facebook is so sad, please, Josh, you can stop the pain to her family of not knowing! TELL WHERE THE BODY IS!:banghead:
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:52 AM
When the police say he drove several hundred miles I wonder what they mean by several hundred ? 300 ? That would mean 150 there and 150 back...I wish we knew just how many...
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 12:55 AM
I think he put her in the woods somewhere....
kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 12:58 AM
Why would his hands be nearly frostbitten? Because he'd had them in water or spent a considerable time in the cold without gloves. Why would he do that in the middle of the night? He must have encountered hard earth when digging a hole deep enough to bury her. You don't get frostbite from throwing someone off a bridge.
(bbm) Yes this is neighbor TP's description, mentioned here, following JP's second trip. (Is there any other mention of this?)
After his van was taken by police under a search warrant, Powell rented a car at the Salt Lake Airport for the day. West Valley Police Captain Tom McLachlan said, "We do know a car was rented in his name and several hundred miles were put on it. Unfortunately, we don't have any GPS data. The company that rented the car doesn't store that data."
Where did he go in that one day that required "several hundred miles" of travel? Long-time friends of both Susan and Josh Powell wonder if he might have returned to the area where he'd supposedly just been camping with his boys. Neighbor Tim Petersen said, " I just kind of speculate if he went out there again. And I wonder why would someone do that?"
When it was time to return the rental car, Peterson said Powell showed up at his house. He said Powell asked for a ride to the police station to get the van. Peterson also observed that Powell's hands were badly wind burned -- to the point where he thought they might have frost bite. He said Powell had a bottle of lotion with him that he frequently applied to his hands.
But wind-burned hands do not alone prove Powell returned to the campground. Nor would a trip to the campground alone account for "several hundred miles" on the rental car.
The only person who can definitively answer where he went and what he did is Powell himself and he has stopped talking to police. Captain McLachlan said, "We would like to know where it went."
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Josh-Powell-puts-several-hundred-miles-on-rental/h1Q-Q0MW302LY8msQiSTWw.cspx
:parrot:
nadjatheresa
12-23-2009, 01:00 AM
(snipped)
I still think that LE has a lot that we do not know about. But if they did have the GPS on that rental car, this case would have been solved, IMO, because I am sure that is where JP went during that 24 hours. Either to make sure the body was still safe, to move it to a better spot, or to hide it better. Very common action with murderers.
Has he explained to anyone his story about where he went that day w/ rental car?
<....>
That's what I thought, too, and it makes sense. But there is a chance, one can hope, that JP started out to revisit the scene and then something spooked him and he headed back.
He'd have to be even dumber than he seems to actually go and revisit the scene, and yet these guys do it time after time.
omegagal
12-23-2009, 01:05 AM
I think you're on to something there :waitasec:
They mentioned it appeared to be either frostbite or a chemical burn. Also, have you ever tried to move an incapacitated adult? I tried to move a 130 lb male (that had too much fun at our boss's birthday party) and he was dead weight. No kidding. I even had 2 big guys try to take over for me and they couldn't. We had to ask the hotel for a wheel chair because we could not move him. I imagine it took Josh quite a while out in the cold to dispose of her properly. I think LE knows exactly where Josh was. Even Chuck Cox's friend that's a PI could have put someone on that car.... It's just not feasible that no one knows where he went.... bologna!!
LogicalMinds
12-23-2009, 01:07 AM
Maybe Josh went out to make some more s'mores?? Or roast wienies??
what new lie will he tell next??
I still am really shocked at the LE there....maybe maybe they are "holding back" info and did have gps on the rental?? Maybe they followed it?? I know that most of "us" here would surely do that...IF we had the "power" to do it
lemonmoussetart
12-23-2009, 01:18 AM
yep, I think LE knows a hell of a lot more than they're saying.
this is from the Cpt on the case (he 'doesn't know' if they tested for blood, etc):
Testing for blood in Powell home: Police were asked if lights or chemical were used in the house to detect blood. McLachlan responded, “I would assume that would occur. I cannot say whether that did or did not occur”.
http://www.examiner.com/x-22460-Seattle-Family-Examiner~y2009m12d19-Susan-Powell-Update-Carpet-cleaning-machine-found--husband-rents-car-then-disappears-more-gtgt
mysticrose
12-23-2009, 01:26 AM
Ok here is a couple of the forests around the area, I have chose mainly the national ones because they are maintained and usally have good roads going everywhere making it easy for someone in a van to travel. These are linking directly up to the road maps for each area linked:
The Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest :
http://fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPwhQ oY6BdkOyoCAPkATlA!/?ss=110419&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=FSE_003771&navid=360000000000000&pnavid=null&position=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&ttype=main&pname=Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest- Maps & Publications
Ashley National Forest:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/ashley/maps/
Paulette
12-23-2009, 01:28 AM
(bbm) Yes this is neighbor TP's description, mentioned here, following JP's second trip. (Is there any other mention of this?)
After his van was taken by police under a search warrant, Powell rented a car at the Salt Lake Airport for the day. West Valley Police Captain Tom McLachlan said, "We do know a car was rented in his name and several hundred miles were put on it. Unfortunately, we don't have any GPS data. The company that rented the car doesn't store that data."
Where did he go in that one day that required "several hundred miles" of travel? Long-time friends of both Susan and Josh Powell wonder if he might have returned to the area where he'd supposedly just been camping with his boys. Neighbor Tim Petersen said, " I just kind of speculate if he went out there again. And I wonder why would someone do that?"
When it was time to return the rental car, Peterson said Powell showed up at his house. He said Powell asked for a ride to the police station to get the van. Peterson also observed that Powell's hands were badly wind burned -- to the point where he thought they might have frost bite. He said Powell had a bottle of lotion with him that he frequently applied to his hands.
But wind-burned hands do not alone prove Powell returned to the campground. Nor would a trip to the campground alone account for "several hundred miles" on the rental car.
The only person who can definitively answer where he went and what he did is Powell himself and he has stopped talking to police. Captain McLachlan said, "We would like to know where it went."
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Josh-Powell-puts-several-hundred-miles-on-rental/h1Q-Q0MW302LY8msQiSTWw.cspx
:parrot:
BBM
Perhaps he couldn't finish the job & had to return to finish. He may have been worried about the weather or running out of gas or the boys woke up. It would be suicidal to return to the burial site - but murderers have done it before. Then again, he may have driven in the opposite direction to throw off anyone following him.
His behavior seemed a little frantic and worried when I watched a video of him. He tried to hide it by talking about the boys. I'd speculate that he was deeply concerned that he'd missed something that could incriminate him in her murder and couldn't settle down till he'd fixed it.
kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 01:39 AM
Maybe Josh went out to make some more s'mores?? Or roast wienies??
Roast wienies... lm*o :floorlaugh:
:ashamed: ...sorry, inappropriate laughter... releases nervous tension. TG I can always count on logical, and fairy, to say what I'm really thinking... :biggrin:
And I don't think much of this so-called "friend" J... geez she's a real ray of sunshine. I mean, I understand any friend would be distraught, that's not it tho. There's just something so... creepy (there's that word again, maybe she's just been hangin around creepy Josh too much)
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/tinegannon/Smilies/8os.png
:parrot:
Mystery haunts Susan Powell's friendBy Lee Benson
Deseret News
Published: Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 10:21 p.m. MST
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353538/Mystery-haunts-Susans-friend.html
Oh, poor Kiirsi and her family, she's so upset over 'missing Susan,' she and her family haven't even put up Xmas decorations.
I'll say a prayer for her and that she's able to get it together at least enough to give her children a nice Xmas. She can't change anything and Susan would want her to be happy. Susan loved the Holidays, per her dad.
fran
omegagal
12-23-2009, 01:41 AM
BBM
Perhaps he couldn't finish the job & had to return to finish. He may have been worried about the weather or running out of gas or the boys woke up. It would be suicidal to return to the burial site - but murderers have done it before. Then again, he may have driven in the opposite direction to throw off anyone following him.
His behavior seemed a little frantic and worried when I watched a video of him. He tried to hide it by talking about the boys. I'd speculate that he was deeply concerned that he'd missed something that could incriminate him in her murder and couldn't settle down till he'd fixed it.
Josh may have been stupid enough to go back to make sure she was dead. Maybe she was haunting him. I noticed some things in my abusive X that may explain that behavior... My X seemed to do some stupid things to really mess his life up outside of the abuse. It's almost like he had 2 personalities and wanted to be punished for the evil side... It was like he would briefly cry out, I'm a dumb azz. He couldn't hold a job for longer than 3 years before the partners would get a good feel for who he was. He couldn't hold a respectable church calling. He didn't even know you turn the bathroom fan on when you take a shower to get the moisture out of the air. He didn't know screens are supposed to go in house windows so you can open the windows without letting bugs fly in. All kinds of things.... But he graduated in the (barely) top 20% of his law class at BYU and he's an excellent classical piano player. Almost like Asperger's or something but definitely NPD/psychopath that was just plain stupid...
It's like that one article earlier about OJ. It mentioned that they don't fully develop in childhood. They just rely on one talent and never fully develop in all areas. I wonder what Joshy boy was narcissistic about? Did he think he was the greatest salesman in the world, maybe the greatest lover....lol... who knows...
BBM
Perhaps he couldn't finish the job & had to return to finish. He may have been worried about the weather or running out of gas or the boys woke up. It would be suicidal to return to the burial site - but murderers have done it before. Then again, he may have driven in the opposite direction to throw off anyone following him.
His behavior seemed a little frantic and worried when I watched a video of him. He tried to hide it by talking about the boys. I'd speculate that he was deeply concerned that he'd missed something that could incriminate him in her murder and couldn't settle down till he'd fixed it.
One case we were following here, the b/f got caught by LE when he returned to dig up and rebury the victim. Horrifying case, she was pregnant...........it didn't carry on too long. A week or so.
:(
fran
PS......I still believe he's all weepy because he's horrified over what he's done AND he's afraid of being caught.....fran :mad:
kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 01:49 AM
BBM
Perhaps he couldn't finish the job & had to return to finish. He may have been worried about the weather or running out of gas or the boys woke up. It would be suicidal to return to the burial site - but murderers have done it before. Then again, he may have driven in the opposite direction to throw off anyone following him.
His behavior seemed a little frantic and worried when I watched a video of him. He tried to hide it by talking about the boys. I'd speculate that he was deeply concerned that he'd missed something that could incriminate him in her murder and couldn't settle down till he'd fixed it.
Obssessing, no doubt... fear and isolation will do that to you, if you just murdered your children's mother. Geez probably started obssessing about how much it had snowed, whether his tracks were still visible eg, whether or not he could even find the same secluded spot again...could all start to work on a poor fellow ya know... and Wayne thought he looked so "bereaved" :boohoo:
:parrot:
Paulette
12-23-2009, 01:52 AM
Maybe we'll have to ask the Astros for directions. Nite all...
SuziQ
12-23-2009, 01:52 AM
Really? I honestly didn't believe that was possible! Thanks SuziQ. Does it seem like a logical (such as it is) spot for JP to have gone?
I should clarify. It never completely freezes over. I wouldn't walk around or drive on it.
ETA: I think the only way Josh would have succeeded with a body dump there would be with a boat. I haven't seen any out on the lake for quite awhile.
Curious Me
12-23-2009, 01:52 AM
JMO, Jovanna is hard to read in her non-verbal body language. She's very stiff, doesn't blink or swallow much, keeps her eyes very steady. I was disappointed I couldn't read much in what she was saying. Also, she doesn't go off and offer anything but what she's asked, and then her answers seem to be to put Josh in a good light.
Strange, she doesn't seem to have ever sensed anything, and she doesn't even now wonder why Susan was oddly tired, or offer anything of use in solving where Susan may be at all. I don't know why she needs to go on these shows and offer her muteness.
Well, I don't know her, and I can't read her, but that doesn't mean anything.
omegagal
12-23-2009, 01:58 AM
JMO, Jovanna is hard to read in her non-verbal body language. She's very stiff, doesn't blink or swallow much, keeps her eyes very steady. I was disappointed I couldn't read much in what she was saying. Also, she doesn't go off and offer anything but what she's asked, and then her answers seem to be to put Josh in a good light.
Strange, she doesn't seem to have ever sensed anything, and she doesn't even now wonder why Susan was oddly tired, or offer anything of use in solving where Susan may be at all. I don't know why she needs to go on these shows and offer her muteness.
Well, I don't know her, and I can't read her, but that doesn't mean anything.
IMHO, JoVanna is the neighborhood nosy busy body that wanted into that house to "help" Susan or to see what was going on. She's really a wack-a-do and looks much older than she is.... she creeps me out.... This is her 15 minutes of fame. She really keeps saying she doesn't know anything and somehow... I believe her...
DomCasual
12-23-2009, 02:00 AM
A couple things:
Regarding the miles he put on the car - I don't think that's necessarily all that big a deal. When I get in a new car, or rent a car that's more sporty than my truck, I tend to put a lot of miles on it at first. And driving, to me, is very therapeutic. When I have a lot on my mind, driving is like a mental enema (sorry, but that's sort of what it feels like). We go to Denver several times a year, and my wife would much rather fly than drive. I like to spend the eight hours in the car, just winding down. I don't think that necessarily rules out him going to the place he put her; but I could see him just driving up and down the Wasatch Front - from Payson (South) to Ogden (North), it's about 100 miles. That's probably what I would do if I needed time to think.
Second, the Great Salt Lake seems as if it would be about the worst place to dump a body. For one thing, it's got more salt than any body of water on earth, other than the Dead Sea. The salt content makes things much more buoyant - I would think a body would have to be really weighted down to stay under. Plus, it's a very shallow lake - it's sort of a big pond. I think it's deepest point is something like 40 feet.
The thing that makes the most sense to me, considering the area, is a deserted mine shaft. They are all over - there are literally thousands of them here. If he had done some exploring on his camping expeditions, and he had been planning something for awhile, I would think he would have been able to find a place that would be an almost perfect hiding place.
SuziQ
12-23-2009, 02:00 AM
I thought all of the new rental cars had a gps. I wonder why this one didn't? Or did it and he somehow disabled it?
Just curious,
fran
I'm pretty sure they do. They have so many thefts that they needed to add them to get their cars back. There is also liability for hit and runs etc. There are alot of reasons for gps on rentals. I think when LE states there is no GPS info, they might be telling a fib. I hope so anyways!!!
kiki the parrot
12-23-2009, 02:00 AM
The reason I posted the article re "frostbitten" or "windburned" hands is because it makes clear that it is only after second trip that this is noticed by a neighbor (TP).
That would seem to make it just as plausible that the chaffing or chapped hands came from from digging out, ie moving and possibly reburying a body. Which would have increased the exposure--had it been a spur of the moment (woops forgot a shovel gotta use w/e I've got) thing. But surely he would've gone prepared on his return trip(?)
If it were just "windburn," his face would've been windburned as well... which it didn't appear to be tho it's hard to tell because it's still cold, and faces are always exposed.
:parrot:
CarolynV
12-23-2009, 02:03 AM
I, of course wonder if he went back to where he left Susan's body- to make sure it was not visible (from the top of a cliff, or something), or to make sure it was still covered, and that animals had not gotten to it.
But, I also wonder the opposite- that Josh may have thought that the rental car did have GPS on it, or that he was being followed, so he drove around aimlessly, just to throw off the cops. Driving around for hours just to confuse the authorities, seems like something he would do, in my opinion.
I don't even want to say it, but what if she was only unconscious when he left her, and he returned home to police and had to go back out to make sure she would not be finding her way home, or to safety?
crocus
12-23-2009, 02:05 AM
I think, if he is responsible for Susan's demise, that the guilt and horror at what he's done will literally eat away at him.
Lord, help those children. What a sad, sad situation for those two little boys!
SuziQ
12-23-2009, 02:06 AM
I think he put her in the woods somewhere....
Unless he went way down south, she couldn't be far off the road anywhere. Step two feet off the road and you could be walking in several feet of snow. A sled would help though.
SuziQ
12-23-2009, 02:11 AM
Ok here is a couple of the forests around the area, I have chose mainly the national ones because they are maintained and usally have good roads going everywhere making it easy for someone in a van to travel. These are linking directly up to the road maps for each area linked:
The Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest :
http://fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPwhQ oY6BdkOyoCAPkATlA!/?ss=110419&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=FSE_003771&navid=360000000000000&pnavid=null&position=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&ttype=main&pname=Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest- Maps & Publications
Ashley National Forest:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/ashley/maps/ (http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/ashley/maps/)
Actually most of the Uintas and Ashley close their roads after labor day. Those areas are only opened for a few months in the summer time. Some of Ashley is open to people who have cabins. But you better have a hummer with chains or something.
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