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Patty G
01-07-2010, 08:49 AM
I haven't come up with one yet but I will!

emmcee
01-07-2010, 04:21 PM
What happened to her? Josh killed her, that's for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if his dad was in on it.

I have had a gut feeling from the very beginning that her body isn't all that far away from home, somewhere that he feels sure she'll never be found - like down an old mineshaft or abandoned well or something like that. He had access to all sorts of information on properties and vacant land from being in real estate and I think that ties in somehow.

West
01-07-2010, 04:51 PM
I feel like everytime I leave the forums and come back later in the day or the next day, there is even more crazy information coming out.

Today I was shocked to read that Josh is planning on selling his UT home that he shared with Susan and the kids to relocate everyone permanently to WA State. Now that wouldn't be too weird, since he has small children/might need help with them/wants to be close to family....BUT ITS BEEN LESS THAN A MONTH since Susan vanished!!!!!!

Maybe down the road a few months etc., but my goodness...he is quickly looking to sever ties in his UT community and get out of dodge. I wonder what the extradition policies are in WA and UT...

Anyway, I found it interesting that on Kiirsi's blog (which I found linked to her twitter), she said that she believes Susan was taken against her will outside of UT somewhere. I find that very interesting...and more plausible than some other theories I've heard (Susan ran off with internet lover etc.)

It would certainly explain why no on in UT seems to remember seeing Josh driving the van around during the first days she was missing (since perhaps the LE are looking in the wrong state!). Did the family ever vacation anywhere in ID/CO/WY?

If she was taken out of state by someone (...named Josh IMO), I wonder if they have found any information via the family computer regarding mapquest directions or the like.

This case is baffling, sad and all over the place. I hope that LE and friends and family of Susan keep up their diligent work on spreading news about Susan and the investigation and that she returns home to her adorable children very soon!

Bartleby
01-08-2010, 11:37 AM
1) She left of her own accord and is still in hiding somewhere.
2) She was abducted by person or persons unknown
3) She was killed by person or persons unknown
4) She was abducted by Josh, possibly with help from father?
5) She was killed by Josh, her body removed and dumped by Josh, possibly with help

I can see no other possible scenarios to explain her continued absense.

1) Extremely unlikely, she would not have left her two children, would not have left her friends in ignorance all this time, and would have had to take something from the house with her - keys, phone, purse, coat, money, which we have no suggestion from Josh or LE that she did.

2) Extremely unlikely. First we have to accept Josh's camping trip story, and then someone has to gain access to the house while he is out (no sign of a break in), either knowing it is occupied by a single female, or in the hopes of that.

3) same as 2, except that they kill her instead of abducting her.

4) Possible, and this is what her friends are hoping for, and that she will either escape or be released. If she has been abducted by Josh, it is most likely to brainwash her out of the LDS, and he must be holding her somewhere, most likely at his father's house, so the father must be in on the scheme. However I don't think Josh would have chosen late on a Sunday evening for such a plot, knowing it would be discovered as soon as their Monday routine was broken. If such a scheme was planned, it was triggered early.

5) Most likely. An argument occured late at night, around 11:30pm to 11:45pm. Josh kills Susan unintentionally, and then panics and decides to dump her body rather than own up. He wraps her in plastic or something to disguise her, puts the body in the van, possibly letting off the alarm in the process. He can't leave the children unattended, nor can he call a neighbour to babysit them while he dumps her body in the woods, so he takes them with him, and concocts the cock-and-bull story about a camping trip to cover his actions. He has mopped up the mess he made killing her, and leaves fans on to dry the wet patch where she died.
I suppose it is possible that he put her in the front passenger seat and strapped her in, so the kids thought she was coming on the trip, which might explain the 4yo's comment about his mother staying in the woods.
Returning to the house the next day, the scene has already been discovered by LE and he presents his cock-and-bull story, dreamed up while driving, possibly with manufactured evidence to back it up, though we have seen no sign of any such evidence. Nobody believes it, but nobody can disprove it if he refuses to take LE to the camping site, which he apparently does.

Forensic evidence is gathered from the house, which takes 4-8 weeks to fully analyse.
Until that analysis is complete the LE will not have a case to convict him, but they can keep him munder observation wherever he is.

4 weeks and 4 days have now passed.

passionflower
01-08-2010, 11:43 AM
Welcome!!! Bartleby!
great 1st post.........
ITA with #5

motappin
01-08-2010, 05:30 PM
A theory...

Josh slipped Susan a drug when he made dinner that night. He did this to incapacitate her so it would be easier to drown her in the tub, making it look like she'd taken too much Benadryl or something on her own (think Drew Petersen's first wife, and he just about got away with it). Halfway through the drowning, he realizes what he is doing and has second thoughts. He pulls her out of the tub and takes her to the living room where there is space to lay her out (hence the wet spot on the floor). He tries to revive her but is unsuccessful. Instead of calling 911, he panics and decides, on the fly, to concoct this missing person story. In panic mode, he takes her body out to dump somewhere, but locks the house and doesn't take her purse like she would have if she left on her own. He's in a hurry...no time to fake a forced entry either. He dumps her in the back of the van where the kids won't see her, loads everyone up, and while the kids sleep in the car, he dumps her.

nyvictoria
01-08-2010, 06:37 PM
1) She left of her own accord and is still in hiding somewhere.
2) She was abducted by person or persons unknown
3) She was killed by person or persons unknown
4) She was abducted by Josh, possibly with help from father?
5) She was killed by Josh, her body removed and dumped by Josh, possibly with help

I can see no other possible scenarios to explain her continued absense.

1) Extremely unlikely, she would not have left her two children, would not have left her friends in ignorance all this time, and would have had to take something from the house with her - keys, phone, purse, coat, money, which we have no suggestion from Josh or LE that she did.

2) Extremely unlikely. First we have to accept Josh's camping trip story, and then someone has to gain access to the house while he is out (no sign of a break in), either knowing it is occupied by a single female, or in the hopes of that.

3) same as 2, except that they kill her instead of abducting her.

4) Possible, and this is what her friends are hoping for, and that she will either escape or be released. If she has been abducted by Josh, it is most likely to brainwash her out of the LDS, and he must be holding her somewhere, most likely at his father's house, so the father must be in on the scheme. However I don't think Josh would have chosen late on a Sunday evening for such a plot, knowing it would be discovered as soon as their Monday routine was broken. If such a scheme was planned, it was triggered early.

5) Most likely. An argument occured late at night, around 11:30pm to 11:45pm. Josh kills Susan unintentionally, and then panics and decides to dump her body rather than own up. He wraps her in plastic or something to disguise her, puts the body in the van, possibly letting off the alarm in the process. He can't leave the children unattended, nor can he call a neighbour to babysit them while he dumps her body in the woods, so he takes them with him, and concocts the cock-and-bull story about a camping trip to cover his actions. He has mopped up the mess he made killing her, and leaves fans on to dry the wet patch where she died.
I suppose it is possible that he put her in the front passenger seat and strapped her in, so the kids thought she was coming on the trip, which might explain the 4yo's comment about his mother staying in the woods.
Returning to the house the next day, the scene has already been discovered by LE and he presents his cock-and-bull story, dreamed up while driving, possibly with manufactured evidence to back it up, though we have seen no sign of any such evidence. Nobody believes it, but nobody can disprove it if he refuses to take LE to the camping site, which he apparently does.

Forensic evidence is gathered from the house, which takes 4-8 weeks to fully analyse.
Until that analysis is complete the LE will not have a case to convict him, but they can keep him munder observation wherever he is.

4 weeks and 4 days have now passed.

Excellent first post! Welcome!!

I'm curious what your take is on this? I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that Josh is hiding Susan somewhere :waitasec: How frequently does this happen in LDS? If that's what Josh is doing, how will he (and his accomplices) explain when Susan is reunited with her family? Surely, no one would believe she was a willing participant.

I hate to type it but I think Susan was murdered. I'm just curious about the deprogramming aspect and why Josh (or anyone else) would go to such extremes?

TIA!!

Patty G
01-08-2010, 06:49 PM
1) She left of her own accord and is still in hiding somewhere.
2) She was abducted by person or persons unknown
3) She was killed by person or persons unknown
4) She was abducted by Josh, possibly with help from father?
5) She was killed by Josh, her body removed and dumped by Josh, possibly with help



5) Most likely. An argument occured late at night, around 11:30pm to 11:45pm. Josh kills Susan unintentionally, and then panics and decides to dump her body rather than own up. He wraps her in plastic or something to disguise her, puts the body in the van, possibly letting off the alarm in the process. He can't leave the children unattended, nor can he call a neighbour to babysit them while he dumps her body in the woods, so he takes them with him, and concocts the cock-and-bull story about a camping trip to cover his actions. He has mopped up the mess he made killing her, and leaves fans on to dry the wet patch where she died.
I suppose it is possible that he put her in the front passenger seat and strapped her in, so the kids thought she was coming on the trip, which might explain the 4yo's comment about his mother staying in the woods.
Returning to the house the next day, the scene has already been discovered by LE and he presents his cock-and-bull story, dreamed up while driving, possibly with manufactured evidence to back it up, though we have seen no sign of any such evidence. Nobody believes it, but nobody can disprove it if he refuses to take LE to the camping site, which he apparently does.



IMO, the only possible scenerio is #5.

Bobbisangel
01-08-2010, 08:19 PM
IMO, the only possible scenerio is #5.


I agree with #5 too. He has a van and the boys would probably have been asleep when he put them into the van. The boys could have been sleeping in the back part on the bench seat if it has one and he could have put Susan on the floor in the middle. I just wonder how far he would have taken her to get rid of her? His hands were frost bitten so he must have buried her somewhere under some snow.

His moving back to Washington state so soon just really clinches it for me. What husband whose wife is missing and that he loves with all of his heart moves thousands of miles away when she has only been gone a few weeks? He hasn't done a thing to look for her or help LE find her. He is just moving on with his life like she never existed. He might as well take a big sign out saying "I MURDERED MY WIFE." I hope and pray LE has some evidence proving it.

amm
01-08-2010, 09:35 PM
I think #5 is the most plausible, as well. Reading the above comments and thinking about their vehicle, I wonder if they have the stow and go compartments. If they do, I wonder if he could have put her in the stow and go in case he was stopped along the drive. I have a 2005 T&C with the stow and go and I can fit a lot of stuff in those compartments (but have never tried to fit a person in one!) Didn't Scott Peterson fit Laci into a toolbox? It makes me shudder to think of the horrible things that he could have done to her. Why do these men commit such heinous acts instead of just getting a divorce? :furious:

ATWC66
01-08-2010, 11:57 PM
I too will go with #5.

MD MOMMY
01-09-2010, 12:34 AM
IMO this was planned, he stabbed her in the house. He placed her in the car and woke his children up. He wasn't anywhere near where he said he was "camping"..the ground was frozen from the temps. He dumped her at a marina. This is all JMO of course.

PorcineGranny
01-11-2010, 04:44 AM
Mommy, to me he seems gutless, I don't think he could have stabbed her unless she was drugged first. and then theres the blood, so I'm thinking he killed her by some other method. Drowning or strangulation would be my guess. I don't really think Josh's father helped but once it was done, hes gonna try to protect and advise him.

To me, its out of the realm of possibility that she would have been taken to deprogram. There really is no program involved in being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Now, there are other churches like the FDLS, and I don't know much about them but they are not involved in this. And the fact that she was married in the temple tells me that she has met with something horrific to leave her children and home.

fran
01-11-2010, 09:58 AM
Well, Josh told someone, 'It's not like I stabbed her!'

So,....................I guess that means stabbing is out. :rolleyes:

I agree with #5.

I can't decide whether he strangled her (with a ligature) or hit her with something.

IMHO, he did the deed though. :mad:

JMHO
fran

MD MOMMY
01-11-2010, 04:40 PM
Well, Josh told someone, 'It's not like I stabbed her!'

So,....................I guess that means stabbing is out. :rolleyes:

I agree with #5.

I can't decide whether he strangled her (with a ligature) or hit her with something.

IMHO, he did the deed though. :mad:

JMHO
fran

And we all know he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.:twocents:

PrayersForMaura
01-11-2010, 05:15 PM
I think the killer sometimes adds in a bit of truth to their web of lies, like Scott Peterson saying he was fishing.
He wasn't fishing but that is where he dumped her body :(

I think her husband killed her and dumped her in the woods somewhere, and quite possibly near somewhere where he is moving now. He needed a day or two to drive far, far away.

Dogface
01-12-2010, 01:08 PM
I think he drugged her with something to make her drowsy, she fell asleep on the couch in the living room, he dragged her to floor and smothered her with a pillow. Her bladder/bowels released, so he had to clean up the area, hence the giant wet spot and fans. He then put her in the car and dumped her somewhere, which is going to be very difficult to find unless more info comes out about his trip (ie if he used a credit card anywhere for gas/food etc, or if a witness saw him).

Curious Me
01-14-2010, 04:22 AM
#5 without a doubt

Here's one of the many ways I see it:

Josh had come across some information over the weekend maybe that Susan had a separate bank account and she was planning to leave with the boys. He found something out and it could have been that Sunday when Susan and the boys walked to church. This set him on a course he had thought of before, and made vague threats about, but it was to him "the last straw".

Rageful, Josh used the loving husband act to deceive Susan. Great pancakes and eggs, Dear. He used some drug to make her sleepy. She was going to have to take a nap. Jovanna left, and Josh took the boys in the van someplace. Susan was actually still just sleeping when they returned and Josh had time to pack a few things in the van. (smores ingredients I guess, or a generator) Susan was out sound asleep. The boys had fallen asleep upon returning from that first "sledding" trip. Josh strangles Susan either in the BR or LR. He goes to carry her out to the van, but body fluids leak creating the wet spot. Then, in the garage, the darn car alarm goes off. Gets her in the van concealed. Goes back into house, cleans wet spot and sets up fans. Gets boys up and in van to go camping. There's a frozen lake he and his Dad used to go to, not that far away. The two boys are sound asleep for a few more hours in the van. He had a sled to pull the body on. The generator has some kind of important use, maybe to cut a hole in the ice, and maybe he met someone out there that helped him. Might have had to get the rental car so he could go check if the ice had covered over.

Well, now I'm really going to cry for Susan. Any story you can come up with will make you sick.

Vegas Bride
01-14-2010, 11:56 AM
I do believe that Josh killed her but it was not done following a plan. There was to much of a mess (wet area on carpet) if he had planned it, he could have gotten her to an area where there was a hard surface where messes could have been cleaned better. if it's true how he is bothered by germs, he would not be wanting a dead body on his carpet! He could have lured her into the garage and done it there, then no need to carry a dead body through the house and she would be close to a vehicle, or he could have planned some kind of "accident" where her body was not a problem, he could have planned a trip to somewhere so was taking her picture close to a cliff and then push her, they have many pictures so I would not think this unusual! he could have her buried, cash in accidental death insurance policy, be the grieving widower and been on his merry way.
He needed to get out of the area so fast, I believe her body is close by and he can't stand being so close to it, he thinks putting distance between them will help him avoid being caught. He also can not deal with being in the house where he killed her.
One thing I'm curious about, the wet area on the carpet, is it close to stairs going to a second floor? Is it close to where a phone would be or where Susan might have been going to grab keys? I picture him having a great need to stop her from doing something, was she going to call 911 or a friend for help?
I think it galled Josh to be waiting on her earlier in the day (cooking supper, bringing blanket etc) then she went to lay down, leaving him to take care of the children. Did he take them out sledding in the dark cold as a way to punish her, knowing she would not approve? Then when they returned she was livid about it and thats what brought on a deadly fight? This might be why her purse was on the bed, she was getting things ready to get out of there!

After she was killed he was in panick mode I do not think he was thinking sharp enough to get rid of a body so it would never be found, he was looking for the fastes easiest way possible, she may have just been put into a dumpster, I would like to know what color trash bags they had at the house, did they have large leaf bags?
Why did he need a new comforter? My thinking is he used theirs to wrap her body in, why need new clothes? What caused the damage to his hands? Still many questions and one day hopefully they will all be answered.

VB

IWannaKnow
01-15-2010, 11:08 AM
Fascinating! We all think similar thoughts. I think JP poisoned Susan's pancakes with something. Rat poison? Sweet foods are easier to cover that smell/taste and pancakes are made separately, easy to make sure you didn't opps and dose yourself. She felt ill and went to bed. So JP leaves to give the poison time to work. Comes home and finds she has drug herself out of bed trying to reach the bathroom but died there. He bundles her up, who knows how, laundry bag ala KC or plastic tote ala Drew Peterson or just plastic bags...hard to say. Loads her into the van, gathers up the kids and the camping gear and goes out into the desert to find a nice place to dump a body. Come home, clean spot in carpet and start looking for new pad in Washington! I hope they catch him. He looks like DP's brother to me....birds of a feather.

kiki the parrot
01-15-2010, 02:40 PM
Curious just told me there was a Theories thread :blushing: maybe this belongs over here.

No doubt a large duffel, and equipment, could have easily been loaded into their van under the pretense of telling the boys they were going "camping." No question in my mind either that the generator served a purpose.

A generator could have supplied the power for an ice auger which could have been used to bore a hole through the ice and a weighted body put beneath the layer of ice... just thinking about it gives me shivers and icy chills. From what research I've now done on ice fishing etc it seems auger would be a superefficient, relatively inexpensive way to accomplish this. They can be rented or perhaps he owned one as they're available sometimes from landscape supplies. Maybe an earth auger/post hole auger would serve? Any auger can be connected to source of power such as a generator, and frankly I was shocked at how portable, affordable ($300+) and efficient these are and as I said, he may have had something already in his shed.

Drilling thru thick ice (thicker than 12") requires heavy energy load thus the need for generator. In demos below, the man cuts thru this extremely thick ice in under five minutes. Yes, ice fishing requires only a small (8-10") hole, smaller than would be required, eg to permit a (weighted) body to be lowered down into the water. But I also learned that, depending upon amperage draw off generator, you can drill 40 (8" or 10") holes eg w three gallons of gas :eek:

Check out these and other beginner ice fishing mini-videos... notice in demo at no time in any demo does the guy wear gloves--so as to not lose his grip regardless of what tool he is using. And when he explains how these holes must be "skimmed" (to remove snow or ice which falls into and fills the hole you create) I wondered if maybe Joshy didn't have a skimmer--so his hands became frostbitten attempting to do this task by hand?

I've now learned everything I ever wanted to know about cutting thru ice. It's giving me the willies to be honest. He could easily have disposed of (returned?) an auger before returning home once called and alerted by LE. Did SP perhaps bring one to their meeting spot? (While I firmly believe landscaping familiarity w earth auger/posthole digger is all that would have been necessary, I am nevertheless curious whether perhaps anyone in the family ever had ice fished eg.) I find it interesting that generator itself was never disposed of--too cheap? Too cocky? Does this surprise us? Had to explain noise boys overheard? Unlike power augers, these generators can be spendy! Maybe he thought w/out auger, no one would be the wiser re generator--and thought his "testing" excuse would enable him to keep it. I mean a wife is one thing, but sure hate to throw away a nice generator :rolleyes:

Just tossing some ideas out here. Is anyone else getting a really bad feeling about this? JMO


http://www.ehow.com/video_4954991_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-power.html?pid=1&cp=1

http://www.ehow.com/video_4954989_cutting-ice-fishing-hole-hand.htmlhttp://www.strikemaster.com/power.html

:parrot:

Curious Me
01-15-2010, 04:50 PM
#5 without a doubt

Here's one of the many ways I see it:

Josh had come across some information over the weekend maybe that Susan had a separate bank account and she was planning to leave with the boys. He found something out and it could have been that Sunday when Susan and the boys walked to church. This set him on a course he had thought of before, and made vague threats about, but it was to him "the last straw".

Rageful, Josh used the loving husband act to deceive Susan. Great pancakes and eggs, Dear. He used some drug to make her sleepy. She was going to have to take a nap. Jovanna left, and Josh took the boys in the van someplace. Susan was actually still just sleeping when they returned and Josh had time to pack a few things in the van. (smores ingredients I guess, or a generator) Susan was out sound asleep. The boys had fallen asleep upon returning from that first "sledding" trip. Josh strangles Susan either in the BR or LR. He goes to carry her out to the van, but body fluids leak creating the wet spot. Then, in the garage, the darn car alarm goes off. Gets her in the van concealed. Goes back into house, cleans wet spot and sets up fans. Gets boys up and in van to go camping. There's a frozen lake he and his Dad used to go to, not that far away. The two boys are sound asleep for a few more hours in the van. He had a sled to pull the body on. The generator has some kind of important use, maybe to cut a hole in the ice, and maybe he met someone out there that helped him. Might have had to get the rental car so he could go check if the ice had covered over.
Well, now I'm really going to cry for Susan. Any story you can come up with will make you sick.

Thanks kiki. Quoting myself above. Cutting through ice using that generator is a logical theory. Josh mentioned that generator for a reason, but he failed to provide exactly how he tested out his new generator.:eek:

kiki the parrot
01-15-2010, 08:38 PM
I think he drugged her with something to make her drowsy, she fell asleep on the couch in the living room, he dragged her to floor and smothered her with a pillow. Her bladder/bowels released, so he had to clean up the area, hence the giant wet spot and fans. He then put her in the car and dumped her somewhere, which is going to be very difficult to find unless more info comes out about his trip (ie if he used a credit card anywhere for gas/food etc, or if a witness saw him).

(bbm) Agree completely w bolded--only skip a step. Ie why go to all the trouble of smothering her... when a little more drug would do/od her and save Joshy the trouble. That's what a passive-aggressive cowardly narcissist would do IMO--no muss, no fuss.

:parrot:

Curious Me
01-16-2010, 07:50 PM
As per the discussions in Susan Powell #6 it is possible that the wet spot on the carpet could have been badly cleaned up blood. LE did take half the carpet from that room for testing. Hmm...she wasn't necessarily drugged...blood makes me think big fight with a awake woman.

I'm not surprised few people with theories have posted. It's very hard to imagine it happening any way it did, and not pleasant to think about. Hope LE has enough to make their move soon, and get Josh behind bars. Time to talk!

lemonmoussetart
01-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Do NOT mean to offend PattiG, but couldn't this, and "Do you think Susan Powell will be found?" be combined? People who are most involved and caring scattered to too many places. JMHO of course

Don't think that people wish to post same on nth amount of posts. Singularity/or differing of thoughts combined with FACTS appear to be the key to real sleuthing.

azwriter
01-16-2010, 10:50 PM
1) She left of her own accord and is still in hiding somewhere.
2) She was abducted by person or persons unknown
3) She was killed by person or persons unknown
4) She was abducted by Josh, possibly with help from father?
5) She was killed by Josh, her body removed and dumped by Josh, possibly with help

I can see no other possible scenarios to explain her continued absense.

1) Extremely unlikely, she would not have left her two children, would not have left her friends in ignorance all this time, and would have had to take something from the house with her - keys, phone, purse, coat, money, which we have no suggestion from Josh or LE that she did.

2) Extremely unlikely. First we have to accept Josh's camping trip story, and then someone has to gain access to the house while he is out (no sign of a break in), either knowing it is occupied by a single female, or in the hopes of that.

3) same as 2, except that they kill her instead of abducting her.

4) Possible, and this is what her friends are hoping for, and that she will either escape or be released. If she has been abducted by Josh, it is most likely to brainwash her out of the LDS, and he must be holding her somewhere, most likely at his father's house, so the father must be in on the scheme. However I don't think Josh would have chosen late on a Sunday evening for such a plot, knowing it would be discovered as soon as their Monday routine was broken. If such a scheme was planned, it was triggered early.

5) Most likely. An argument occured late at night, around 11:30pm to 11:45pm. Josh kills Susan unintentionally, and then panics and decides to dump her body rather than own up. He wraps her in plastic or something to disguise her, puts the body in the van, possibly letting off the alarm in the process. He can't leave the children unattended, nor can he call a neighbour to babysit them while he dumps her body in the woods, so he takes them with him, and concocts the cock-and-bull story about a camping trip to cover his actions. He has mopped up the mess he made killing her, and leaves fans on to dry the wet patch where she died.
I suppose it is possible that he put her in the front passenger seat and strapped her in, so the kids thought she was coming on the trip, which might explain the 4yo's comment about his mother staying in the woods.
Returning to the house the next day, the scene has already been discovered by LE and he presents his cock-and-bull story, dreamed up while driving, possibly with manufactured evidence to back it up, though we have seen no sign of any such evidence. Nobody believes it, but nobody can disprove it if he refuses to take LE to the camping site, which he apparently does.

Forensic evidence is gathered from the house, which takes 4-8 weeks to fully analyse.
Until that analysis is complete the LE will not have a case to convict him, but they can keep him munder observation wherever he is.

4 weeks and 4 days have now passed.

Bartleby, I vote for #5. Great post.

Vegas Bride
01-17-2010, 10:16 PM
Ok, this is a sick and twisted thought, but since Josh's fathers birthday is Dec 19th, could there have been a motive there for him to get rid of Susan as a sort of gift to his father? I know it's pretty off the wall but nothing in this story seems normal to me! Was Josh up in WA on Dec 19th celebrating the day with his daddy?

VB

RayO
01-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Ok, this is a sick and twisted thought, but since Josh's fathers birthday is Dec 19th, could there have been a motive there for him to get rid of Susan as a sort of gift to his father? I know it's pretty off the wall but nothing in this story seems normal to me! Was Josh up in WA on Dec 19th celebrating the day with his daddy?

VB

I think it has more to do with it being the first Sunday of the month. Isn't that fast and testimony Sunday?

grayjay
01-17-2010, 11:16 PM
I think it has more to do with it being the first Sunday of the month. Isn't that fast and testimony Sunday?

Fast? As in breakfast is pancakes for supper? Ayyyeee! Poison comes to mind, and sadness to heart.

Curious Me
01-18-2010, 02:22 AM
As usual, I will go back and forth on premeditated and intentional versus accidental or due to fight but not planned.

I think I will always have to be convinced again and again that some people truly are selfish and evil enough to kill their own spouse, and mother of their children according to some plan.

Then I remind myself that it's no problem for a pathological narcissist who has the ability to not care that much anyways. The example being how fast Josh was ready to move on. Everybody else is still looking for Susan. I guess I'd have to accept that it may make him capable of a premeditated, intentional murder.

Wild theory, Vegas Bride. Now that would be too hard for my mind to handle.

txsvicki
01-18-2010, 02:38 AM
I think Susan could have been drugged or poisoned when her friend was over since Susan became ill after dinner and went to sleep. I've thought from the beginning that he could have put her in the vehicle in a drugged state and left her out in some remote area to die of hypothermia or killed her there. I don't know what was on the wet spots, but she could have been trying to get away, struggled, or vomited as he was getting her out of the home. If the son said his mommy stayed in the woods then she was taken to the woods with them.

LogicalMinds
01-24-2010, 02:02 PM
I think Susan could have been drugged or poisoned when her friend was over since Susan became ill after dinner and went to sleep. I've thought from the beginning that he could have put her in the vehicle in a drugged state and left her out in some remote area to die of hypothermia or killed her there. I don't know what was on the wet spots, but she could have been trying to get away, struggled, or vomited as he was getting her out of the home. If the son said his mommy stayed in the woods then she was taken to the woods with them.

I really agree with you

I don't think it was blood on the carpet..that would show..I think she vomited

I think the "timing" had to do with a decision by Susan...I think she had asked for a divorce, wanted him out of there, wanted the kids,

she basically supported them all...his money would be cut off, his "pride" hurt, his control broken

I think he gave her some sleeping pill or drugged her to give him time..I think that she may have thrown up...I think he got her/led her to the van and off they all went..."left" her in the woods

His 2nd "camping and smores" trip may have been to hide her better or cover his tracks or ??

I think the "father" may have helped him in the coverup but I doubt this was a planned conspiracy (but may be a conspiracy after the fact, accomplice after the fact)

I am firm in the idea that the MOST dangerous time for a woman in an abusive controlling situation is when she finally says "enough"..and ends it...I think Susan said "enough' and this tragedy unfolded

believe09
02-19-2010, 04:04 PM
Hard to tell where to put this, but a child in WA just came across human remains and I wanted to post the thread on the off chance it had anything to do with this case...
WA - 8-year-old Finds Human Remains Near Toledo - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

hollyblue
02-19-2010, 05:35 PM
Ok, this is a sick and twisted thought, but since Josh's fathers birthday is Dec 19th, could there have been a motive there for him to get rid of Susan as a sort of gift to his father? I know it's pretty off the wall but nothing in this story seems normal to me! Was Josh up in WA on Dec 19th celebrating the day with his daddy?

VB

He did leave on the 18th I think. Who knows WHAT or HOW this family thinks.

Breathe
02-19-2010, 06:05 PM
Hard to tell where to put this, but a child in WA just came across human remains and I wanted to post the thread on the off chance it had anything to do with this case...
WA - 8-year-old Finds Human Remains Near Toledo - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96165)



http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m2d19-Officials-say-remains-found-by-8-yearr-old-near-Olympia-not-believed-to-be-those-of-Susan-Cox-Powell

February 18, 2010 - TOLEDO - An 8-year old boy playing in a wooded area in Lewis County, Wash., near the Cowlitz River on Thursday afternoon came upon remains that Lewis County sheriffs do not believe belong to Susan Cox Powell.

The mother of two young boys went missing from her West Valley City, Utah home in early December, and has yet to be found. (Click here and here for more information about Susan's disappearance.)

The sheriff's office said the 8-year old boy was playing outside at approximately 3:30 p.m. Thursday when he made the horrifying discovery that has local authorities looking for answers.

Detectives are searching the area and, at this time, have no information as to how long the remains had been there or how the person died.

One thing they are quite sure of, the remains are not those of missing Utah mom, Susan Cox Powell, whose hometown is Puyallup, Wash., about one hour southeast of where the body was found.

Chief Deputy Stacy Brown, Public Information Officer (PIO) for Lewis County Sheriff's office, told Examiner.com Friday, "We have no reason to believe the human remains found were those of Susan Powell."

Aerial footage of the scene captured by KOMO News' Air 4 shows detectives combing the area with cadaver dogs. A search team also can be seen forming up near the rural site.

Little information is available at this time but Examiner.com will keep you informed as information is released.

The remains were found at a location along the 100-block of Cougar Lane. Stacey Brown also said it is too early to determine if the person was the victim of a crime. She said the remains are most likely those of an adult.

Cadaver dogs are being called in to help search for additional clues, including something that might lead to the identity. The investigation includes checking missing persons records.

Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott said authorities do not have any indication that the remains might belong to Lindsey Baum, the young girl who disappeared June 26 in the small town of McCleary, about 50 miles away.

Undersheriff Scott confirmed with Examiner.com that the remains are not those of Lindsey Baum and that the case of the discovered remains is being handled by Lewis County Sheriff's office.

Police continue their investigation into the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell.

The last person to see Susan was her husband, Josh Powell, who remains the sole person of interest in the case police call a missing person's case with suspicious criminal overtones.

Josh and Susan were both from Puyallup, where Josh is now living with his father.


Believe09 - Thank you so much for posting this. Not that I want this to be someone's loved one but maybe the family will finally have peace. I wonder if it's Nancy Moyer since they ruled out Lindsey Baum? So, so sad for everyone involved. I wish life were fair.

grayjay
02-19-2010, 07:53 PM
Every time something like this comes up, POI will have to wonder if he'll be asked again by the press to make a statement about whether he thinks it's his wife. He could even wonder if he'll be framed. Enormous pressure. And don't let the boys watch TV. They might hear something where they bring up daddy's name again in the news.

laytonian
02-21-2010, 09:15 PM
MAP (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=6254+Sarah+Cir,+Salt+Lake+City,+UT&daddr=Right+Fork+Hobble+Rd&hl=en&geocode=%3BFbsHZQIdfQ1b-Q&mra=ls&sll=40.175547,-111.473283&sspn=0.010198,0.018132&ie=UTF8&ll=40.275335,-111.818848&spn=1.30339,2.320862&t=h&z=9) starting at Powell home in West Valley City, and site near where today's remains were found in Hobble Creek Canyon, Springville, Utah.

According to one TV station, the remains were found "about a five minute hike" off one of the main canyon roads.

The interesting thing? There's a winter recreation area in that canyon, including sledding hills.

Fairy1
02-21-2010, 09:22 PM
Oh wow! This looks totally possible....

laytonian
02-21-2010, 09:30 PM
The latest news report says it's "unlikely" it's Susan Powell, although the body IS of a 25-35 year old woman.
The body appears to not be connected to any missing persons case.

Oh wow! This looks totally possible....

It does. I've theorized often that he secured her to one of the sleds, and just scooted her down a hill. The article doesn't say if the "five minute hike" is upwards, or downwards.

RubyRed
02-28-2010, 12:14 PM
"While it appears that Steven is close in age to Susan Powell and was driving through the Salt Lake City area within a day or two of her disappearance, any connection between the two seems entirely coincidental to us. Because we want to remain open to all possibilities, no matter how improbable, we have no issue with an exchange of information between the St. George and West Valley City police departments."

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID30706/images/resized_Susan_Powell_missing_Utah_Mom.jpg
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID30706/images/Steven_Koecher.jpg
http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Suddenly-Famous-Examiner~y2010m2d27-Susan-Powell-Steven-Koecher-link-considered-by-Utah-missing-person-investigators

These types of articles give more leverage for the defense.

hollyblue
02-28-2010, 12:30 PM
"While it appears that Steven is close in age to Susan Powell and was driving through the Salt Lake City area within a day or two of her disappearance, any connection between the two seems entirely coincidental to us. Because we want to remain open to all possibilities, no matter how improbable, we have no issue with an exchange of information between the St. George and West Valley City police departments."

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID30706/images/resized_Susan_Powell_missing_Utah_Mom.jpg
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID30706/images/Steven_Koecher.jpg
http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Suddenly-Famous-Examiner~y2010m2d27-Susan-Powell-Steven-Koecher-link-considered-by-Utah-missing-person-investigators

These types of articles give more leverage for the defense.


Without "proof", the prosecution would shoot this down in a NY minute because of speculation.

Angel Who Cares has posted some great media info on the Links only thread. Please take a look. Thank you...YOU are truly an angel and Colleen Russell is right along your side. Good work ladies.

mitzi
03-01-2010, 03:47 AM
"While it appears that Steven is close in age to Susan Powell and was driving through the Salt Lake City area within a day or two of her disappearance, any connection between the two seems entirely coincidental to us. Because we want to remain open to all possibilities, no matter how improbable, we have no issue with an exchange of information between the St. George and West Valley City police departments."

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID30706/images/resized_Susan_Powell_missing_Utah_Mom.jpg
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID30706/images/Steven_Koecher.jpg
http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Suddenly-Famous-Examiner~y2010m2d27-Susan-Powell-Steven-Koecher-link-considered-by-Utah-missing-person-investigators

These types of articles give more leverage for the defense.

Next, Josh will be claiming that Susan ran off with Steven. (ala Drew Peterson style) :rolleyes:

dovebar
03-04-2010, 02:57 AM
No, but where was Steven when she disappeared? Do we know?

If he was in the SLC or Northern Utah, Nevada area, is it possible that he saw something or unintentionally helped Josh, left his name and number, and later was lured by Josh to Vegas? I am thinking of how he went out of his way to help his teenage neighbors in St. George a few days later. Is there any possibility that Steven met Josh in passing that night, with the boys and Susan in the van, helped them somehow, gave out his name and number, and was later tracked down by Josh?

Pure speculation, as I haven't followed the timelines closely enough for either case. But wouldn't several hundred miles put on a rental car take Josh to Vegas and back? Have the police released exactly how many miles? 200 or 700?

RubyRed
08-21-2010, 07:40 PM
Sadly, I don't think she'll ever be found, although I wish nothing more than for me to be proven wrong.

My theory is that Josh burned her, and then scattered the remains in the water, in the desert, etc...somewhere basically where it wouldn't ever turn up because it would just look like ashes.

I just pray that Susan gets justice, and that her family can get some sort of closure in this horrible case :(


bbm

I was just wondering why you think she was burned?

hollyblue
08-22-2010, 04:34 PM
No, but where was Steven when she disappeared? Do we know?

If he was in the SLC or Northern Utah, Nevada area, is it possible that he saw something or unintentionally helped Josh, left his name and number, and later was lured by Josh to Vegas? I am thinking of how he went out of his way to help his teenage neighbors in St. George a few days later. Is there any possibility that Steven met Josh in passing that night, with the boys and Susan in the van, helped them somehow, gave out his name and number, and was later tracked down by Josh?

Pure speculation, as I haven't followed the timelines closely enough for either case. But wouldn't several hundred miles put on a rental car take Josh to Vegas and back? Have the police released exactly how many miles? 200 or 700?


Someone had posted on Steven's FB page, who had checked the buses running from Sacramento to Wendover. Bus left at 3 in the morning and arrived in Wendover at approx. 3 pm. This would have been around the time SK was going thru there after he left Ruby Valley. Thought it was interesting. The (SK's) timeline theory is in conflict with what the mother said in the press conference. She nor any family has never mentioned his going to the temple that week. Which I find intriguing.

passionflower
08-22-2010, 06:08 PM
IMO, Susan didn't leave her children...........I still think it was domestic abuse that lead to murder by husband.

gwenabob
08-23-2010, 01:08 AM
It takes an extremely hot fire to burn a body to ashes. It is not easy to do outside a crematory. It would take hours and hours and a lot of fuel to do it in the desert. People would notice, I think. Also, even after a body comes out of a cremation, there are lots of big chunks of bone--especially the femur--left over. They have to be ground up. Not pretty.

I hope searchers are looking for evidence of burned bones.

Personally, I think the mines are a better bet. Ker-plunk, easy peasy.

SugarJames
08-23-2010, 01:09 PM
Someone had posted on Steven's FB page, who had checked the buses running from Sacramento to Wendover. Bus left at 3 in the morning and arrived in Wendover at approx. 3 pm. This would have been around the time SK was going thru there after he left Ruby Valley. Thought it was interesting. The (SK's) timeline theory is in conflict with what the mother said in the press conference. She nor any family has never mentioned his going to the temple that week. Which I find intriguing.

He was at a dinner on the 7th that he "left abruptly". Was at temple night before Ruby trip. Was in Wendover aprrox 13.5 hours later. Bus leaves at 3a arrives at 3p. Made a small purchase in SLC at approx 440p 1st candle light vigil in WVC. I find that really interesting. I present this to "Family and Friends SCP" and to "Where is SK" both sides arent interested based on "They would never leave thier families"...or they didnt know each other.

Find a connect to them going back at least a year or more?

hollyblue
08-23-2010, 10:31 PM
He was at a dinner on the 7th that he "left abruptly". Was at temple night before Ruby trip. Was in Wendover aprrox 13.5 hours later. Bus leaves at 3a arrives at 3p. Made a small purchase in SLC at approx 440p 1st candle light vigil in WVC. I find that really interesting. I present this to "Family and Friends SCP" and to "Where is SK" both sides arent interested based on "They would never leave thier families"...or they didnt know each other.

Find a connect to them going back at least a year or more?

I don't think it's even feasible to hope anyone in the know would come forward.

He didn't arrive back in SG until early Friday morning, per his own mother at the press conference and I would think she gained her knowledge with the help of LE. Plus the fact she worked at the bank which had all the information.

The date of him being in RV changed from the 8th to the 9th, to the 10th.

As far as the dates quoted, unless you have access to the receipts from the places he made purchases, or his bank records.....there is no way to know the precise date of them....and make a confirmation of the exact date in RV.

Maybe not a year or more, but maybe Tim? Kiirsi or John? Half truths....."she was abducted". Maybe someone in SG who had connections to LV? Maybe the connection is just Josh e pooh?....on the down low. Just throwing out ideas to you.

Here is link if you haven't read it yet for discussion of possible connection. Wasn't rec'd with the greatest seriousness, as you mentioned above, but unless they find either SK or SCP, I'm firm on it. JMO

3/25/2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

SugarJames
08-24-2010, 01:42 PM
There is a really nice timeline compiled by laytonian as to SK movements going back about a year untill the date he went missing, with alot of detail on the time between Dec 7th and the 14th. Some very interesting stuff If you believe that SCP is alive...and believe there is a connection.

The time line is embeded in a story JAN 20 News 8 online Las Vegas tittle "Where is Steven Koecher"

hollyblue
08-24-2010, 02:45 PM
Yes, I'm familiar with that timeline and as mentioned previously, I do not agree with specific parts of it.

Timeline starts in April and SK was having "difficulties" within his life prior to his move SG. Just as SCP was having difficulties way prior to her disappearance.

JMO

SugarJames
08-24-2010, 11:58 PM
[QUOTE=hollyblue;5549531]Yes, I'm familiar with that timeline and as mentioned previously, I do not agree with specific parts of it.

care to expand?

hollyblue
08-25-2010, 03:53 AM
[quote=hollyblue;5549531]Yes, I'm familiar with that timeline and as mentioned previously, I do not agree with specific parts of it.

care to expand?

I already have. Basically, the timeline does not agree with what the mother said in the press conference.....and his arrival in RV.

Timeline says he left SG Thursday night. Mother says he arrived in RV on the 9th and back in SG early Friday. Conflict. This was after the first report he arrived in RV on the 8th. Did you go to the link I provided and read the info there?

Although, I think there is a connection, this is Susan's thread, and some people get upset with the subject. This should really be on SK's thread on the link I provided. Just trying to keep the peace, IYKWIM :)

mayelf
08-25-2010, 11:30 PM
He could have 'stored' her body someplace close to him or his father and is continually moving the body. I just thought of that because of the recent case I read about where the father/mother killed their daughter and he boxed her up but once she started smelling, buried her, then recovered her and packaged her up again. They eventually got a storage shed and hid her in there.

So if he's so controlling, maybe he couldn't handle leaving the body anywhere he couldn't watch it for onlookers.

I know that is a stretch, but it's just an idea.

tfrohning
09-10-2010, 04:47 PM
Is it possible that Josh drugged Susan and loaded Susan and the boys in the van... meet families members to hand off Susan to be taken back to Washington and be help against her will. (control issues)

Susan was standing up to Josh and from what I been reading the Powell men are very controlling. It also sound like Steven Powell is starting his own cult with all the people living under his roof.

Just a short theory but still thinking on it.

I sure hope LE is watching everyone under Steven's roof.

hollyblue
09-10-2010, 09:12 PM
I just read something I found interesting on the FB page for Susan. They ( Debbie Caldwell) states a secrecy order is attached to Susan's file/case.

Why would that be?

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=198478842187

tfrohning
09-10-2010, 09:57 PM
I just read something I found interesting on the FB page for Susan. They ( Debbie Caldwell) states a secrecy order is attached to Susan's file/case.

Why would that be?

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=198478842187

I feel dumb asking this but what a secrecy:blushing:

hollyblue
09-10-2010, 10:21 PM
I feel dumb asking this but what a secrecy:blushing:


----the state of keeping something secret

I'm guessing only, but once a file is on record with the courts, the judge has the right, if need be for some reason, to place a seal on the files. I don't know if this is what she meant, or just that LE will not talk about it.
The search warrants and the affidavit LE served on Josh for his car, home, garage, etc.-- for it would be on file, but if the judge had them sealed, no one can access them. They do this many times when children are involved with a case. IE: divorce, homicide in the family, etc.... Say LE did interview little son, I don't think that should be made public.

hollyblue
09-11-2010, 04:16 AM
I feel dumb asking this but what a secrecy:blushing:

Sorry to answer your question twice...but too late to edit. I found this article on the LE having a gag order. That is probably what she meant.
imo

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/west-valley-city-police-under-gag-order-susan-cox-powell-case

Jacie Estes
11-26-2010, 10:32 PM
I’m taking a break from writing one of the hardest papers I’ve ever done, turned on the TV and I am watching ‘Criminal Minds’ one of my favorite programs. One of the actors said something that made me think of jp. The line was about “carrying a 110 lb woman who was deceased, it would be a difficult task”. It appears that Susan was more than 110lbs and jp is certainly not a muscular male. In fact he is the embodiment of the ’99lb weakling’.

He could not, alone, have carried Susan very far. Did someone help him? Did he park near or next to where she was placed? What about ‘putting a body in a sleeping bag and dragging it’. Could the snow/ice have made this easier to do?

diphi
12-26-2010, 07:26 PM
I’m taking a break from writing one of the hardest papers I’ve ever done, turned on the TV and I am watching ‘Criminal Minds’ one of my favorite programs. One of the actors said something that made me think of jp. The line was about “carrying a 110 lb woman who was deceased, it would be a difficult task”. It appears that Susan was more than 110lbs and jp is certainly not a muscular male. In fact he is the embodiment of the ’99lb weakling’.

He could not, alone, have carried Susan very far. Did someone help him? Did he park near or next to where she was placed? What about ‘putting a body in a sleeping bag and dragging it’. Could the snow/ice have made this easier to do?

I don't know, but can you imagine just how surreal that night must have been for everyone? How totally bizarre.

MOO, of course.

laytonian
12-27-2010, 01:57 PM
I’m taking a break from writing one of the hardest papers I’ve ever done, turned on the TV and I am watching ‘Criminal Minds’ one of my favorite programs. One of the actors said something that made me think of jp. The line was about “carrying a 110 lb woman who was deceased, it would be a difficult task”. It appears that Susan was more than 110lbs and jp is certainly not a muscular male. In fact he is the embodiment of the ’99lb weakling’.

He could not, alone, have carried Susan very far. Did someone help him? Did he park near or next to where she was placed? What about ‘putting a body in a sleeping bag and dragging it’. Could the snow/ice have made this easier to do?

Putting together what little I know:

Shrinkwrap her, tie a rope around her (or tie her to a sled that you can pull with a rope).
Drive somewhere.
Untie the load from the sled, and let it roll down a hill.
Put the sled back in the car.
Light a fire and tell the kids you're "camping".

When you get home, tell everyone that you "went south".

laytonian
12-27-2010, 01:58 PM
I don't know, but can you imagine just how surreal that night must have been for everyone? How totally bizarre.

MOO, of course.

Especially with two young children who, although one was nearly 3, were likely not potty trained.

How many dirty diapers were found in the minivan....or out in the "Pony Express" area?

diphi
12-27-2010, 05:20 PM
MOO,

Warning - slightly graphic.

Lol, we've hashed this over and over but I'll throw it out there, again.

I don't think someone else helped at that hour of the night. Someone else (SP?) may well have provided advice and support later on. I bet at some point during the next day a call was made to SP.

I think the dump probably was very close to the van. I just can't see dragging a body for a very long distance, considering there were 2 children in the van, the weather, the darkness, etc. I'll guess a drop off a cliff, into a river, or, yes, maybe even a mine close to the road - but certainly not too far from the van and a road.

I also don't think that changing diapers were much of a thought during the night. It's a good question, though. Were dirty diapers found in the van? If it were me, I'd probably just throw them out or bury them (not normally, but in that situation). I bet no diapers were found in the Pony Express area because he was never there.

diphi
12-27-2010, 05:29 PM
Putting together what little I know:

Shrinkwrap her, tie a rope around her (or tie her to a sled that you can pull with a rope).
Drive somewhere.
Untie the load from the sled, and let it roll down a hill.
Put the sled back in the car.
Light a fire and tell the kids you're "camping".

When you get home, tell everyone that you "went south".

Respectfully BBM - and just asking

How do you pull that off with 2 children possibly watching? You've got to load the sled in the van and get the children in the van, too - probably wide awake at that point. And, how do you explain the the "roll down" to the children? It would all work fine, except for the children...

laytonian
12-27-2010, 05:39 PM
Respectfully BBM - and just asking

How do you pull that off with 2 children possibly watching? You've got to load the sled in the van and get the children in the van, too - probably wide awake at that point. And, how do you explain the the "roll down" to the children? It would all work fine, except for the children...

Easy.

You leave the kids in the house (probably asleep, or with a little "Utah liquid Binky", aka Benadryl).

Once you've got the package in back of the minivan, you put the kids in.
They can't see what's in back.

And....strapped in their car seats, they can't see what you're doing, when you pull it out and roll it down the hill.

Folks have been mentioning "shrink wrap" -- that's the only reason I can see for it. (Substitute a piece of cardboard, carpet or plywood for the sled - same scenario.)

laytonian
12-27-2010, 05:56 PM
MOO,

Warning - slightly graphic.

Lol, we've hashed this over and over but I'll throw it out there, again.

I don't think someone else helped at that hour of the night. Someone else (SP?) may well have provided advice and support later on. I bet at some point during the next day a call was made to SP.

I think the dump probably was very close to the van. I just can't see dragging a body for a very long distance, considering there were 2 children in the van, the weather, the darkness, etc. I'll guess a drop off a cliff, into a river, or, yes, maybe even a mine close to the road - but certainly not too far from the van and a road.

I also don't think that changing diapers were much of a thought during the night. It's a good question, though. Were dirty diapers found in the van? If it were me, I'd probably just throw them out or bury them (not normally, but in that situation). I bet no diapers were found in the Pony Express area because he was never there.

I don't think he was, either.

There'd be a lot of dirty diapers, a diaper box, maybe some unused ones, graham crackers, marshmallows, hershey bars, baby wipes, etc. Lots of supplies needed for that fantasy camp.

nosylla
12-28-2010, 02:12 AM
Easy.

You leave the kids in the house (probably asleep, or with a little "Utah liquid Binky", aka Benadryl).

Once you've got the package in back of the minivan, you put the kids in.
They can't see what's in back.

And....strapped in their car seats, they can't see what you're doing, when you pull it out and roll it down the hill.

Folks have been mentioning "shrink wrap" -- that's the only reason I can see for it. (Substitute a piece of cardboard, carpet or plywood for the sled - same scenario.)

You read my mind! I have thought the start! Except the shrink wrap. Did he (JP) purchase shrink wrap rolls? If so, that is enough evidence to arrest if you ask me. That along with a clear "motive". Susan wanted to leave him. No brainer WVCPD ~~ sheesh. Why have they not served a warrant for his arrest?

SugarJames
12-28-2010, 01:07 PM
You read my mind! I have thought the start! Except the shrink wrap. Did he (JP) purchase shrink wrap rolls? If so, that is enough evidence to arrest if you ask me. That along with a clear "motive". Susan wanted to leave him. No brainer WVCPD ~~ sheesh. Why have they not served a warrant for his arrest?

Arrest me...you caught me. "I have a large roll of shrink wrap...several rolls of duct tape and lots of rope, trashbags, Latex ,rubber, and leather gloves. Several books by Anne Rule, saws, shovels, knives (I wish I had a welding torch) and believe Susan Powell left with a "clear motive"to leave Josh Powell" That must make me a prime suspect...or a POI...or acc after the fact.

Why even wrap up a body at that time of day anyway...why not just set her up in a seat with a pillow like she is sleeping(seat belt on o'coarse...children in car seats sleeping...)makes a peacfull picture if pulled over by police in a traffic stop...(Officer to Josh, whats with everybody sleeping? Josh "Liquid binky" Officer, oh yea...use that stuff on my kids all the time never though about using on the wife... Josh thanks Barney and off he goes.)much better than a hastly wrapped plastic package in the back.

Dead bodies are moved all over the country everyday legally...It's not allways in a big black car...people die while riding in cars...alot of them on the way to the hospital. Show of hands how many people would be able to reconize a dead person vertical or horizontal if you saw one? really...how many have you seen or been next to, that left you with a lasting impression of the reality?

Susan left on her own...I have money bet on it, and I dont make bets unless Im pretty sure of the odds.

SugarJames
12-28-2010, 01:13 PM
You read my mind! I have thought the start! Except the shrink wrap. Did he (JP) purchase shrink wrap rolls? If so, that is enough evidence to arrest if you ask me. That along with a clear "motive". Susan wanted to leave him. No brainer WVCPD ~~ sheesh. Why have they not served a warrant for his arrest?

Arrest me...you caught me. "I have a large roll of shrink wrap...several rolls of duct tape and lots of rope, trashbags, Latex ,rubber, and leather gloves. Several books by Anne Rule, saws, shovels, knives (I wish I had a welding torch) and believe Susan Powell left with a "clear motive"to leave Josh Powell" That must make me a prime suspect...or a POI...or acc after the fact.

Why even wrap up a body at that time of day anyway...why not just set her up in a seat with a pillow like she is sleeping(seat belt on o'coarse...children in car seats sleeping...)makes a peacfull picture if pulled over by police in a traffic stop...(Officer to Josh whats with everybody sleeping? Josh "Liquid binky" Officer oh yea...use that stuff on my kids all the time never though about using on the wife... Josh thanks Barney and off he goes.)much better than a hastly wrapped plastic package in the back.

Dead bodies are moved all over the country everyday legally...It's not allways in a big black car...people die while riding in cars...alot of them on the way to the hospital. Show of hands how many people would be able to reconize a dead person vertical or horizontal if you saw one? really...how many have you seen or been next to? That left you with a lasting impression of the reality.

Susan left on her own...I have money bet on it, and I dont make bets unless Im pretty sure of the odds.

laytonian
12-28-2010, 02:10 PM
You read my mind! I have thought the start! Except the shrink wrap. Did he (JP) purchase shrink wrap rolls? If so, that is enough evidence to arrest if you ask me. That along with a clear "motive". Susan wanted to leave him. No brainer WVCPD ~~ sheesh. Why have they not served a warrant for his arrest?

Tricia posted (click HERE) about it. Rather than quoting, please click and read her entire post.

It's intriguing, for sure.
Depending on the size, it could be use to seal drafty windows in the wintertime.
Since JP was a known clean-freak, a theory about him using shrinkwrap as a body/evidence containment system, isn't illogical thinking.

hollyblue
12-28-2010, 06:01 PM
Actually, it's just a rumor...until confirmed by LE.....and could it be poly rather than shrink wrap? Huge rolls of poly are used by homeowners for many things. Protection from rain when doing home repairs. Roof, patio,....even interior...painting, etc. It not abnormal at all for homeowners doing their own repairs or maintenance to have it.

svfxt
09-29-2011, 07:15 PM
given the events of the past few weeks (SP), I vote for #4, with a possible ending of #5....

jmarple
09-29-2011, 10:56 PM
I reread this entire thread tonight and it was very interesting to see that most of the theories now are the same as our original speculations. Some may even be exactly right about what actually happened. Time will tell and the clock is ticking....tick, tock, Josh, tick, tock....

momof7
09-30-2011, 01:28 AM
I have been haphazordly following this case since the beginning. I watched other trails in between coming here from time to time since it began. I was intrigued from the very beginning a grown man, a father who supposedly loves and dotes on his sons, would use an albi such as camping in Dec in subzero temps on a mountain. And then thought everyone would believe it...because he really does. The male version of Casey Anthony folks. From the get go all the lies are not even close to believeable by either JP or SP. He was outside alright, somewhere but he wasn't camping. A little bit of truth in every lie. Just enough so he can remember them. It really bothered me from the very beginning that they isolated the boys as soon as was possible. Didn't help in searches. Didn't even cooperate with LE.

I do think Susan was drugged. I am still on the fence about planning, but I do think that SP was pushing for something to happen, anything. I also believe that over the course of 3 weeks he was giving her those drugs and finally enough built up in her system he gave her an overdose. She may have thrown up at some point or even possibly suffocated from vomiting, but I do believe she died in that house.

I agree with others, JP is not a huge man. Depending on how long it took there is a definite time when rigor starts to set in. Dead weight. He had to have help to hide the body. There is no way I can even see that happening even with the amount of adrenaline he must have been feeling, and euphoria for finally being rid of Susan.

I do also believe wherever she is, and I really hope that SP starts singing like a bird. I can't imagine he doesn't know already what he is in for in the system. He is low man now, very very low on the jjail ladder of things. For a deal, I will bet we will have closure for the Cox's and her sweet boys and all those who have worked so tirelessly to find her and bring justice.

Hopefully JP and his father will get everything they deserve and then some.

Kelly

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
09-30-2011, 01:42 AM
I still can't shake the feeling Susan is still alive, and close to, if not on SP's property, but it may take some soffisticated equipment to find her ... or a stool pigeon. Time to start scaring the birds that occupy the cockoos' nest to start singing. JMHO.
I hate to think that IF I am correct in my theory, what disgusting torture she has endured thus far. I also hope there is not a pact that if head cuckoo get's jailed for one of his minions to do away with her, or let her rot in her enclosure.

andalso
09-30-2011, 07:23 AM
I’m taking a break from writing one of the hardest papers I’ve ever done, turned on the TV and I am watching ‘Criminal Minds’ one of my favorite programs. One of the actors said something that made me think of jp. The line was about “carrying a 110 lb woman who was deceased, it would be a difficult task”. It appears that Susan was more than 110lbs and jp is certainly not a muscular male. In fact he is the embodiment of the ’99lb weakling’.

He could not, alone, have carried Susan very far. Did someone help him? Did he park near or next to where she was placed? What about ‘putting a body in a sleeping bag and dragging it’. Could the snow/ice have made this easier to do?

I have not read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been discussed, but wasn't there mention at some point of JP taking the kids sledding? Perhaps he put her body on a sled for transport...(wow, that's hard to type). In fact, I do think a lot of winter campers use sleds to transport their gear. I know I have been around ice fisherman and they drag their gear out on what I can only describe as a sled (there is probably some official name for it in the ice fishing/winter camping world).

svfxt
09-30-2011, 11:08 AM
On the same token, I would also be cursious as to the weight of the generator he "took" with him camping. If he wasn't very strong, wouldn't he have had considerabel difficuly loading it from the garage into the back of the minivan?

hollyblue
09-30-2011, 03:59 PM
I would think a person who lifts weights could be an asset in lifting heavy objects....just sayin'.....

momof7
09-30-2011, 04:39 PM
I still can't shake the feeling Susan is still alive, and close to, if not on SP's property, but it may take some soffisticated equipment to find her ... or a stool pigeon. Time to start scaring the birds that occupy the cockoos' nest to start singing. JMHO.
I hate to think that IF I am correct in my theory, what disgusting torture she has endured thus far. I also hope there is not a pact that if head cuckoo get's jailed for one of his minions to do away with her, or let her rot in her enclosure.

For some reason, in the back of my mind, I feel like this is NOT impossible. Jaycee Duggard, Elizabeth Smart...I thought they were both gone forever.

In the end anything is possible, but the thing that keeps me thinking no way is the ego of both SP has, that there is very little he doesn't brag about, imho.

Do you think there is anyway after all this time they were able to keep it a total secret? No showing off? I wonder if its possible?

Thanks
Kelly

DLT88
09-30-2011, 04:54 PM
I have not read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been discussed, but wasn't there mention at some point of JP taking the kids sledding? Perhaps he put her body on a sled for transport...(wow, that's hard to type). In fact, I do think a lot of winter campers use sleds to transport their gear. I know I have been around ice fisherman and they drag their gear out on what I can only describe as a sled (there is probably some official name for it in the ice fishing/winter camping world).

Interesting. Yeah, they went sledding earlier in the day. But sleds are still made of wood, aren't they -- except for the runners and front. Maybe the burned wood in the hole was sled wood.

DLT88
09-30-2011, 04:59 PM
I’m taking a break from writing one of the hardest papers I’ve ever done, turned on the TV and I am watching ‘Criminal Minds’ one of my favorite programs. One of the actors said something that made me think of jp. The line was about “carrying a 110 lb woman who was deceased, it would be a difficult task”. It appears that Susan was more than 110lbs and jp is certainly not a muscular male. In fact he is the embodiment of the ’99lb weakling’.

He could not, alone, have carried Susan very far. Did someone help him? Did he park near or next to where she was placed? What about ‘putting a body in a sleeping bag and dragging it’. Could the snow/ice have made this easier to do?

That's true. I weigh 110 and am always told how bony I am (can't help it!). I had foot surgery once and my boyfriend (who --bodywise-- was like JP - the ONLY similarity!) had to carry me a ways. He could barely walk straight and was really struggling. He put me down and said, "I never would have thought you'd be that hard to carry." So no way could JP have carried Susan like that a ways. No way. He would have had to drag her or put her on a sled.

hollyblue
09-30-2011, 06:22 PM
Interesting. Yeah, they went sledding earlier in the day. But sleds are still made of wood, aren't they -- except for the runners and front. Maybe the burned wood in the hole was sled wood.

It would seem LE would know if that sled is still around. Still in the van when he returned since they were there waiting for him, or they found it in the home. You know, I don't think this issue has ever come up before....Where was/is the sled?.

svfxt
09-30-2011, 06:31 PM
...possibly, but IIRC, the sledding and camping trips were seperate so its possible that JP would't have taken the sled camping, and therefore it wouldn't have been in the car. I agree though, it at least should have been in the garage or back deck or something....

gwenabob
09-30-2011, 06:46 PM
I do hope LE looked for evidence of s'more supplies. And the generator. See if it was used or not.

svfxt
09-30-2011, 07:04 PM
I do hope LE looked for evidence of s'more supplies. And the generator. See if it was used or not.

I would also be curious as to what was in the car that could have been PLUGGED into the generator. As I understand it, a generator only produces electricity.....so what was the electricity used for again? ....Furthermore, a generator couldn't have been used in the car because of the carbon monxide produced by the gas engine and I believe that it would have been to cold (not to mention LOUD) to use the generator to "heat" a tent if they slept outside- which I don't think they could have done because it was too cold. personally, I don't do ICE camping so I'm scratching my head as to what a generator would have been used for in a camping blizzard.:waitasec:

BlOnDe_GuRrL
10-16-2011, 10:02 PM
Hope this is ok to post... Since the forensic astro forum was closed.
I saw this on FB
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/

dovebar
10-17-2011, 01:02 AM
I would also be curious as to what was in the car that could have been PLUGGED into the generator. As I understand it, a generator only produces electricity.....so what was the electricity used for again? ....Furthermore, a generator couldn't have been used in the car because of the carbon monxide produced by the gas engine and I believe that it would have been to cold (not to mention LOUD) to use the generator to "heat" a tent if they slept outside- which I don't think they could have done because it was too cold. personally, I don't do ICE camping so I'm scratching my head as to what a generator would have been used for in a camping blizzard.:waitasec:

This is a really good question. You don't need a generator to run a lantern.

diphi
10-18-2011, 04:59 PM
Hope this is ok to post... Since the forensic astro forum was closed.
I saw this on FB
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/

Before I even got to the astrology part, I was struck by this statement, "The father of Susan Cox Powell has asked people to stop focusing on her husband Joshua. "I don't see him as capable of harming her," said Charles Cox, who flew in from his home in Washington State to assist in finding his daughter."

Really? Chuck Cox is asking people not to focus on Josh? I know I've been MIA for a few days but I just can't imagine Mr. Cox saying that. Did he?

As for astrology, I don't understand it. I don't deny its usefulness - I just don't know.

ETA: After looking at this again I think that quote must have been made very early in the case (if made at all). However, the blog post is dated 10/16. I think it's misleading in that it appears Mr. Cox said that very recently.

IMO

mysteriew
10-18-2011, 07:48 PM
The part about he wasn't capable of harming Susan makes me doubt the truth of the whole post. Because the Cox's knew he was controlling from before her disappearance. And his statements after her disappearance were very carefully worded. He made a point that he wasn't accusing JP or wasn't going to accuse JP. But I don't believe that he ever said JP wasn't capable.

Remember that before her death she had a talk with family about the problems in her marriage and they helped her to set up a bank account separate from her joint account.

OneLove
10-18-2011, 09:39 PM
Based on what is known about Susan's father-in-law, Steven, and what appears to be significant dysfunction between the father and son, AND the astrological factors, I believe Susan became sleepy due to something put in her food and went to take a nap, Josh put the kids in the car and let his father into the house unseen by the children. Josh came back home and put the kids in bed, then joining his father in their mutual perverted sickness concerning "sharing" Susan. I believe Susan was choked (silenced) long enough, regurgitated her poisoned food while being choked, and died of asphyxiation and cardiac arrest. Both covered up the crime.

Poor Susan. What can we all learn from this? NEVER EVER EVER underestimate the capacity of a person to committ unimaginable crimes. Who would have EVER believed either of these Powell's were capable of anything worse than being bad husbands and fathers (well, BEFORE Susan disappeared anyway).

diphi
10-19-2011, 09:30 PM
Based on what is known about Susan's father-in-law, Steven, and what appears to be significant dysfunction between the father and son, AND the astrological factors, I believe Susan became sleepy due to something put in her food and went to take a nap, Josh put the kids in the car and let his father into the house unseen by the children. Josh came back home and put the kids in bed, then joining his father in their mutual perverted sickness concerning "sharing" Su.san. I believe Susan was choked (silenced) long enough, regurgitated her poisoned food while being choked, and died of asphyxiation and cardiac arrest. Both covered up the crime.

Poor Susan. What can we all learn from this? NEVER EVER EVER underestimate the capacity of a person to committ unimaginable crimes. Who would have EVER believed either of these Powell's were capable of anything worse than being bad husbands and fathers (well, BEFORE Susan disappeared anyway).

IDK...I'm not convinced SP was directly involved in Susan's demise. I can understand a desire to "share" but I just don't know that SP was actually there in WVC. I think it was much more like SP talked and reasoned with JP to the point that JP was about to crack. And, crack he did. Then, SP was pulled in again to clean up the mess/situation. I think most of this occurred over the phone(s).

Do we have clarification as to where SP was on the night Susan went missing? I may have missed that critical point.

IMO

RubyBlu
10-21-2011, 07:56 PM
IDK...I'm not convinced SP was directly involved in Susan's demise. I can understand a desire to "share" but I just don't know that SP was actually there in WVC. I think it was much more like SP talked and reasoned with JP to the point that JP was about to crack. And, crack he did. Then, SP was pulled in again to clean up the mess/situation. I think most of this occurred over the phone(s).

Do we have clarification as to where SP was on the night Susan went missing? I may have missed that critical point.

IMO

I've posted the question of what SP's alibi was that night & apparently LE is keeping a tight lid on that which may be normal procedure with an ongoing/active investigation.

There have been so many cases where LE has "botched up" forensic evidence, etc...I really hope that is not the case here.

RhythmicSun
10-22-2011, 10:38 AM
Based on what is known about Susan's father-in-law, Steven, and what appears to be significant dysfunction between the father and son, AND the astrological factors, I believe Susan became sleepy due to something put in her food and went to take a nap, Josh put the kids in the car and let his father into the house unseen by the children. Josh came back home and put the kids in bed, then joining his father in their mutual perverted sickness concerning "sharing" Susan. I believe Susan was choked (silenced) long enough, regurgitated her poisoned food while being choked, and died of asphyxiation and cardiac arrest. Both covered up the crime.

Poor Susan. What can we all learn from this? NEVER EVER EVER underestimate the capacity of a person to committ unimaginable crimes. Who would have EVER believed either of these Powell's were capable of anything worse than being bad husbands and fathers (well, BEFORE Susan disappeared anyway).

I think Susan is dead, though I also think there is credence to the idea that she was for at least for a short time held captive and perhaps still is). I don't think SP would share Susan with his son or anyone. He's a master controller and manipulator. He's probably a pedophile (based upon media reports of police activity in his home and the arrest record) and perhaps a psychopathic killer. And I too am wondering why Susan's father asked people to stop focusing on JP. I think he's capable of much more than Susan's father apparently believes.

sunnydee
10-22-2011, 11:23 AM
It seemed that after Jaycee was found alive after being held captive by her kidnapper for decades that there were other cases reported as well. A (Australian?) man who kidnapped his 18 year old stepdaughter and held her in the basement, impregnating her 6 or more times. Those children were in poor condition because they never saw daylight, and couldn't even walk. He rented apartments in this building, over the years - some tennants claim that they heard pounding on the walls from below, but didn't do anything. I think I saw another story from PA (?) where a man was kidnapping young women (possible prositutes) and kept one at a time in this basement as a sex slave. One woman escaped, and many people didn't believe her story (because she had a substance abuse problem before her disappearance) but she was able to show the police the place and they saw proof of previous occupants in the same basment (writings on the wall).

Never in my life, could I have ever dreamed up such a scenario. Could Steven have build an underground soundproof shelter in his own home?

As for the question about Josh being able to carry deadweight of a 135 pounds (or whatever). Never underestimate the power of a human to do amazing tasks when necessary. We are capable of doing much more than we give ourselves permission to do. If feeling threatened - if in a life or death scenario - we can focus our strength to do what is necessary to accomplish our goal.

sunnydee
10-22-2011, 11:36 AM
Personally I fail to see any positive trait in Josh which would make Susan want to make that marriage work. If my father-in-law was treating me inappropriately, and I complained to my husband and he didn't take my concerns seriously - that would really make me question his loyalty to me. How can anyone tolerate another person treating their spouse disrespectfully?

If Susan was concerned enough for her own safety that she would write a letter to her sons explaining that she would never commit suicide or abandon them because she is afraid of threats from SP; I can't imagine dealing with SP without the support of my spouse. Either he is with me, or is against me and is siding with the creep.