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imamaze
01-12-2010, 08:48 AM
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SuziQ
01-12-2010, 09:14 AM
Brought over from the last thread:

Today, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuziQ
Well I think searches should be done to actually try to find people and not just make family and friends feel better. ETA:And did I miss something? Is Susan's family asking for searches?

(bbm) Why do you feel it's necessary for Susan's family to ASK for a search in order for ward members to initiate a search?

We all know Joshua Powell's ward members came to HIS aid.

Was not Susan Powell also a member in good standing of the Mormon Church?

Would the present situation be just a wee bit different if MALE Josh was missing and Susan was the uncooperative, no-verified-alibi FEMALE who was asking for unconditional moving help? :waitasec:

moo


***************

I feel the reason the family is not searching is probably the same reason LE, the Ward, co-workers aren't searching. IMO, the family and LE has info that says a search isn't possible. What other reason could there be for a loving dad to go back home two states away and not search? The rest are following suit. Someone brought up Ed Smart. Him and his brother have organized and participated in other searches. Why not this one?

Yes, 20 people came to Josh's aid. There are several hundred in that ward who didn't. I don't see this as a religion thing. I'd say that's probably the same percentage in any case like this one where religion is not involved. There will always be people who don't want to see the obvious. There will always be people who don't want to know. There will always be people who don't want the burden of judging anyone and leave that up to God (if you are religious) and the justice system (for those not religious).

IMO, if the situation was reversed, Susan would have more backers and more people helping her. The public has a hard time believing women are capable of horrible crimes, especially crimes against their own children. And when these women are found guilty, the public still has a hard time handing down a death sentence.

AmandaReckonwith
01-12-2010, 09:33 AM
It is NEVER a waste of time to search for a missing person. NEVER.

I have lost respect for the friends and family in Utah who have not initiated this. I have lost respect for the ward/church/neighbors as well.

I may be wrong.

I would search even if it produced nothing.

SUSAN had value in this world.

FIND HER.

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 09:59 AM
It is NEVER a waste of time to search for a missing person. NEVER.

I have lost respect for the friends and family in Utah who have not initiated this. I have lost respect for the ward/church/neighbors as well.

I may be wrong.

I would search even if it produced nothing.

SUSAN had value in this world.

FIND HER.

How does protecting the safety of the public, evidence and the integrity of a case equate to Susan not having value? There are people here all the time that get themselves into a situation where their bodies are not recoverable for months if ever. How about the snowboarders bodies that stayed in the Provo mountains till July when the snow melted? How about that guy that just got trapped in the Nutty Putty cave and who's body is now sealed there forever? Their families had to except the hard facts. Would you lose respect for them too?

Gin
01-12-2010, 10:26 AM
How does protecting the safety of the public, evidence and the integrity of a case equate to Susan not having value? There are people here all the time that get themselves into a situation where their bodies are not recoverable for months if ever. How about the snowboarders bodies that stayed in the Provo mountains till July when the snow melted? How about that guy that just got trapped in the Nutty Putty cave and who's body is now sealed there forever? Their families had to except the hard facts. Would you lose respect for them too?

I don't think these are equal comparisons.
The snowboarders as well as the spelunker voluntarily and of their own choice (of course NOT deliberately) were in potentially risky/dangerous situations. And, although it was very sad, their family members either knew or had a good idea of where the bodies were located.
They were not victims (or potentially victims) of a terrible crime.
I think there probably is a reason LE isn't searching...but I have no idea what it is. It's really bizarre.
What follows is just my opinion. I could be totally wrong, but...
I keep going back to Ed Smart. I think if there was a good reason to search, he'd be first in line helping with organizing/encouraging searches. He's not. I trust his judgment...so I wait and wonder.

Heatherly30
01-12-2010, 10:31 AM
I have read posts that discuss the possibility of Susan having been "kidnapped" and taken somewhere for "deprogramming." I don't think that this is a popular theory, but if LE, family, close friends, etc. aren't searching for her, they must have some information that she is alive somewhere and being held against her will. I know that the first interview I saw of Kiirsi, she said she didn't have much hope that Susan was still alive. Then her blog stated she thought she was taken out of the state. I'm not a Kiirsi hater, and I believe that something must have happened to lead her to believe this new information. While I believe that Josh was involved to some degree (and probably his dad too), is it possible that someone is threatening her, holding her hostage, or something to that effect. Obviously, none of us know, but I'm trying to figure out that LE and family are really thinking. Any ideas, opinions, theories about anything to this effect?

I still wish we could learn more about SP...he is a mystery.

hoppyfrog
01-12-2010, 10:47 AM
Dear Posters:

Please keep this thread on-topic.

The thread is about Susan.

You may discuss religion only as it directly relates to Susan's disappearance.

The last thread got waaaaaaaay off-topic discussing various aspects of the LDS church, aspects that had nothing to do with Susan's disappearance.

You are welcome to have that discussion, BUT please start a thread in the Jury Room and have that discussion there.

Thanks,

Hoppy
mod

wyome
01-12-2010, 10:49 AM
I have read posts that discuss the possibility of Susan having been "kidnapped" and taken somewhere for "deprogramming." I don't think that this is a popular theory, but if LE, family, close friends, etc. aren't searching for her, they must have some information that she is alive somewhere and being held against her will. I know that the first interview I saw of Kiirsi, she said she didn't have much hope that Susan was still alive. Then her blog stated she thought she was taken out of the state. I'm not a Kiirsi hater, and I believe that something must have happened to lead her to believe this new information. While I believe that Josh was involved to some degree (and probably his dad too), is it possible that someone is threatening her, holding her hostage, or something to that effect. Obviously, none of us know, but I'm trying to figure out that LE and family are really thinking. Any ideas, opinions, theories about anything to this effect?

I still wish we could learn more about SP...he is a mystery.



I have not heard this theory before. Interesting.

I also thought it was interesting that when Josh brother-in-law (I believe) came out a bit ago saying that it wouldn't surprise him if Josh was arrested within a week, LE made a statement to the effect of "I don't know why he would make such a statement, or what information he has"...almost denying that's the track they're on. Perhaps this was LE's way of staying aloof, and not tipping their hand, but I still thought it was odd.

One thing I will say about the deprogramming theory is that I have never heard of anyone deprogramming a mormon. Maybe a fundamental mormon, whose members live somewhat isolated, polygamist lives....but not LDS.

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't think these are equal comparisons.
The snowboarders as well as the spelunker voluntarily and of their own choice (of course NOT deliberately) were in potentially risky/dangerous situations. And, although it was very sad, their family members either knew or had a good idea of where the bodies were located.
They were not victims (or potentially victims) of a terrible crime.
I think there probably is a reason LE isn't searching...but I have no idea what it is. It's really bizarre.
What follows is just my opinion. I could be totally wrong, but...
I keep going back to Ed Smart. I think if there was a good reason to search, he'd be first in line helping with organizing/encouraging searches. He's not. I trust his judgment...so I wait and wonder.

IMO, these situations are comparable if you are talking about having to make a practical and safe decision vs an emotional one in recovering a body. I think it's really unfair to equate that to a victim not having value, accuse people of not caring, or twisting that to mean they support Josh.

We don't know why there are no searches by the ones closest to Susan. I do know that Utah does search for people extensively and recover bodies if it's possible.

wyome
01-12-2010, 10:59 AM
Getting back to Josh's work, it find it interesting that one of Josh's earlier suppporters,
Wayne Hamberg, had this to say about his work:

"Josh is a very talented computer engineer but felt he was underappreciated at work."
And when asked why Josh didn't show up to work on Monday, Hamberg replied, "To do a 'blue flu' and miss a day wouldn't suprise me."

http://www.examiner.com/x-22460-Seattle-Family-Examiner~y2009m12d19-In-support-of-Josh-Powell--friend-speaks-out-while-wife-Susan-Powell-is-still-missing

Has anyone used the term "blue flu" before. This is new to me. The article suggests that according to Websters, blue flu is a sick-out staged by police. I think the friend was referring to the fact that Josh was unhappy at work and would occasionally call in sick just to avoid it. If so, this could explain why the company fired him so quickly. That, and the fact that, let's face it, he never even bothered to call in that morning!

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 11:46 AM
I think one of the reasons there are no searches going on is because Josh's good friend Kiirsi put out the idea Susan is alive and in another state and the friends have fallen lock stock and barrel in step with her. If Susan is alive in another state why look for her?

Personally I think it is a delusion and people will cringe and ask themselves why did we ever fall for this when they find out what Kiirsi is basing this on.

I think the girl in this video sums up the feelings of Josh's friends when it comes to Susan and the media. They don't like any media that suggest Josh is guilty.

How could this girl do this walking into Susan's house?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frVMEC9k1Bo

Gin
01-12-2010, 11:55 AM
I think one of the reasons there are no searches going on is because Josh's good friend Kiirsi put out the idea Susan is alive and in another state and the friends have fallen lock stock and barrel in step with her. If Susan is alive in another state why look for her?

Personally I think it is a delusion and people will cringe and ask themselves why did we ever fall for this when they find out what Kiirsi is basing this on.

I think the girl in this video sums up the feelings of Josh's friends when it comes to Susan and the media. They don't like any media that suggest Josh is guilty.

How could this girl do this walking into Susan's house?


It's befuddling, no doubt about it. On the one hand, I believe Tricia. She seems to feel that K is credible. On the other hand, many of K's statements and actions are (to me, personally) at best, odd.
I'm basically trusting LE and Tricia. And watching Ed Smart to see if he leads anything, as well as who he choose to stand with--like when he's been side by side with Mr. Cox. And I guess, sorta conversly, I'm also watching to see who he doesn't stand beside or align himself with.
Meanwhile, the waiting is so hard. Those little boys must miss their mother terribly.

Bartleby
01-12-2010, 12:08 PM
I have read posts that discuss the possibility of Susan having been "kidnapped" and taken somewhere for "deprogramming." I don't think that this is a popular theory, but if LE, family, close friends, etc. aren't searching for her, they must have some information that she is alive somewhere and being held against her will. I know that the first interview I saw of Kiirsi, she said she didn't have much hope that Susan was still alive. Then her blog stated she thought she was taken out of the state. I'm not a Kiirsi hater, and I believe that something must have happened to lead her to believe this new information. While I believe that Josh was involved to some degree (and probably his dad too), is it possible that someone is threatening her, holding her hostage, or something to that effect. Obviously, none of us know, but I'm trying to figure out that LE and family are really thinking. Any ideas, opinions, theories about anything to this effect?

I still wish we could learn more about SP...he is a mystery.

I suggested that Susan may have been kidnapped for "deprogramming", not because I think this is likely, but it is the most likely scenario where she would still be alive. My heart would love for her to be found alive, my head says that's almost impossible.

The "deprogramming" suggestion one possible reason for being kidnapped by Josh himself, possibly with help. We know his father is anti-LDS, we know that Josh is wobbly in his commitment to LDS, we know Susan was strong in her LDS faith, and we know this was one cause of tension within the marriage and between these three people.

If Kiirsi's attitude to finding Susan alive improved, then maybe LE have leads suggesting this scenario may have occurred, and they have informed her of their findings. I know she has had more contact with LE than we are a party to, and I trust her judgement on doing what she can to aid the search for Susan to the best of her ability.

mom_of_five
01-12-2010, 12:35 PM
I suggested that Susan may have been kidnapped for "deprogramming", not because I think this is likely, but it is the most likely scenario where she would still be alive. My heart would love for her to be found alive, my head says that's almost impossible.

The "deprogramming" suggestion one possible reason for being kidnapped by Josh himself, possibly with help. We know his father is anti-LDS, we know that Josh is wobbly in his commitment to LDS, we know Susan was strong in her LDS faith, and we know this was one cause of tension within the marriage and between these three people.

If Kiirsi's attitude to finding Susan alive improved, then maybe LE have leads suggesting this scenario may have occurred, and they have informed her of their findings. I know she has had more contact with LE than we are a party to, and I trust her judgement on doing what she can to aid the search for Susan to the best of her ability.

Assuming Susan was, in fact, taken for 'deprogramming'...isn't that still kidnapping? If LE had evidence that something of the sort had, in fact, taken place...wouldn't they be arresting someone for kidnapping or conspiracy to kidnap, etc? And wouldn't Susan and Josh's LDS friends be offended instead of supportive? :waitasec:

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 12:45 PM
It's too bad someone did not paste these all over the moving van.

That would have helped with the search for Susan.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Powell/josh-susan.jpg

angeleleven
01-12-2010, 12:48 PM
I think one of the reasons there are no searches going on is because Josh's good friend Kiirsi put out the idea Susan is alive and in another state and the friends have fallen lock stock and barrel in step with her. If Susan is alive in another state why look for her?

Personally I think it is a delusion and people will cringe and ask themselves why did we ever fall for this when they find out what Kiirsi is basing this on.

I think the girl in this video sums up the feelings of Josh's friends when it comes to Susan and the media. They don't like any media that suggest Josh is guilty.

How could this girl do this walking into Susan's house?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frVMEC9k1Bo

If they truly thought she was alive somewhere, then why would they help him pack her belongings and try to sell the house. I just don't get it at all. I'm sorry to say that I don't feel she is alive and I also feel that Josh has them eating out of his hands. It's sickening. And if this upsets anyone, I'm sorry....but I just don't get a good feeling when it comes to Kiirsi. Just my opinion which I am entitled to. I'm not trying to upset anyone and wish I could feel differently.

Gin
01-12-2010, 12:48 PM
Assuming Susan was, in fact, taken for 'deprogramming'...isn't that still kidnapping? If LE had evidence that something of the sort had, in fact, taken place...wouldn't they be arresting someone for kidnapping or conspiracy to kidnap, etc? And wouldn't Susan and Josh's LDS friends be offended instead of supportive? :waitasec:

Just for the record, this scenario is the least likely to me.
However, I think your take is spot on. And to me, friends would be offended, scared, angry, and doing whatever they possibly could to help LE and bring the crisis to a conclusion. The last thing they would want to do would be to prolong it by making the crisis easier in any way for the uninterested, non- cooperator. I think the minute it was obvious that non-cooperation was the preferred game plan it was time for friends to step aside from comforting JP. Whether Susan is with us, (but in desperate danger) or worse, she should be the sole recipient of our focus.
JMO--YMMV, as always.

emmcee
01-12-2010, 12:51 PM
. . . snip . . .

I think there probably is a reason LE isn't searching...but I have no idea what it is. It's really bizarre.
What follows is just my opinion. I could be totally wrong, but...
I keep going back to Ed Smart. I think if there was a good reason to search, he'd be first in line helping with organizing/encouraging searches. He's not. I trust his judgment...so I wait and wonder.

I agree with this. I have wracked my brain trying to figure out WHY they aren't searching and can't come up with anything reasonable. However I kinda think LE, and yes Ed Smart, know something that we don't know. Hopefully it'll all play out in the proper order and eventually we'll learn what info we were missing.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 01:11 PM
Can someone fill me in on why Ed Smart has been talked about in this case? I am trying to do so research on him and his involvement with missing people. I know I have read something just don't know where.

Gin
01-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Can someone fill me in on why Ed Smart has been talked about in this case? I am trying to do so research on him and his involvement with missing people. I know I have read something just don't know where.

Maybe I should jump in here, since I've been mentioning him. I saw a news conference or two (may have been more) where he was providing support to Mr. Cox. I was glad to see that. I think they stay in touch--pretty sure I've heard that.
Ed lives in SLC. When his daughter disappeared, she was gone through a winter. There were many searches, time passed, and we all know there was a very good conclusion when Elizabeth was found.
He knows the horrible pain of having a missing family member. He must have infinite sympathy for Mr. Cox and family, as well as the suffering of the two little boys, among others.
Because he's well versed in media, as well as searches (due to circumstances that were thrust upon his family) I think he'd gladly step up to do whatever he could do. I don't believe he'd ever do anything without the express OK of LE.

wyome
01-12-2010, 01:24 PM
I doubt LE would share information with Ed Smart, though. I believe he'd be a great source of comfort to the Cox family, yes, but I doubt he's privy to anything.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 01:30 PM
Maybe I should jump in here, since I've been mentioning him. I saw a news conference or two (may have been more) where he was providing support to Mr. Cox. I was glad to see that. I think they stay in touch--pretty sure I've heard that.
Ed lives in SLC. When his daughter disappeared, she was gone through a winter. There were many searches, time passed, and we all know there was a very good conclusion when Elizabeth was found.
He knows the horrible pain of having a missing family member. He must have infinite sympathy for Mr. Cox and family, as well as the suffering of the two little boys, among others.
Because he's well versed in media, as well as searches (due to circumstances that were thrust upon his family) I think he'd gladly step up to do whatever he could do. I don't believe he'd ever do anything without the express OK of LE.

Thanks Gin. Where there searches for his daughter through the winter? I did not follow this case at all.

I also think it is important Ed Smart was comforting Mr. Cox and not Josh. Makes me think he has no sympathy or feels the "wrongly accused" connection with Josh.

Bartleby
01-12-2010, 01:52 PM
Assuming Susan was, in fact, taken for 'deprogramming'...isn't that still kidnapping? If LE had evidence that something of the sort had, in fact, taken place...wouldn't they be arresting someone for kidnapping or conspiracy to kidnap, etc? And wouldn't Susan and Josh's LDS friends be offended instead of supportive? :waitasec:


BBM It may be not so much that LE have evidence that this has taken place, but that they don't have evidence that it has not taken place, so they are keeping all lines of enquiry open.

wyome
01-12-2010, 02:15 PM
BBM It may be not so much that LE have evidence that this has taken place, but that they don't have evidence that it has not taken place, so they are keeping all lines of enquiry open.

You could make this argument on just about every missing person's case, really. I would hope they'd start forming some plausible theories by now based on what they know.

The fact that Susan's had co-workers coming forth stating that she had plans to write a letter about how she would NEVER commit suicide, just in case something happens, is really explosive. Add this to the: 2007 bankruptcy (HUGE stress on a family....this is around the time she had to go back to work), 2008 e-mails to ?? about fearing Josh, separate bank account was opened by Susan, counseling with Peterson, then she turns up missing....it's all painting a very sad picture of the realities of their marriage. SUSAN's reality.

I wonder if and when Josh ever found out about her separate bank account. She probably never intended on leaving Josh, as much as it was a way to keep Josh from emptying out their bank account and taking the kids. I think that may have been one of her greatest fears.

Bartleby
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
You could make this argument on just about every missing person's case, really. I would hope they'd start forming some plausible theories by now based on what they know.

The fact that Susan's had co-workers coming forth stating that she had plans to write a letter about how she would NEVER commit suicide, just in case something happens, is really explosive. Add this to the: 2007 bankruptcy (HUGE stress on a family....this is around the time she had to go back to work), 2008 e-mails to ?? about fearing Josh, separate bank account was opened by Susan, counseling with Peterson, then she turns up missing....it's all painting a very sad picture of the realities of their marriage. SUSAN's reality.

I wonder if and when Josh ever found out about her separate bank account. She probably never intended on leaving Josh, as much as it was a way to keep Josh from emptying out their bank account and taking the kids. I think that may have been one of her greatest fears.


Agreed, I can only think she stayed with him as long a sshe did for the boys' sake, and becasue LDS frown on divorce even more than most religions, especially if it's the wife pushing for divorce.

It's very sad that Susan appears to have lived in fear of Josh for at least the past year, and started preparing herself to leave, but didn't get away in time.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 02:23 PM
BBM It may be not so much that LE have evidence that this has taken place, but that they don't have evidence that it has not taken place, so they are keeping all lines of enquiry open.

Personally I don't think the police are entertaining that that possibility at all but I think Kiirsi want's to make people think they are.

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 02:26 PM
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Dang this Video is so good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-3ZH5SqqZs&feature=related

wyome
01-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.


I agree, there must be a reason. Even if that reason is simply that LE doesn't have enough information yet. Surely, they should begin receiving at least preliminary results of evidence collected from the home by now. But that won't necessarily tell them where to look.

I know that the area Josh told police he went camping is supposed to be 2,000 miles long. I'm sure police would have liked to have had a 2-hour car ride with Josh earlier on to show them exactly where, but Josh lawyered up.
I wish they could have taken him on this trip within the first 48 hours. That's a looooong car ride that could have elicited some loose talk.

I've read that the police would like to ask Josh further questions about Susan's disposition that night, people who he thought she might confide in, details about their marriage, etc. Which makes me wonder...if they had 2 previous interviews with Josh before he lawyered up, what WAS being asked?

Heatherly30
01-12-2010, 02:56 PM
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.

I agree, very mysterious, strange, odd...

While I realize that JP probably wasn't thinking clearly during the disposal, don't you think he or his dad would have thought it would be a bad idea to put her in the freezing snow and ice where her body would be preserved fairly well? I understand that it's a big, big world out there, and finding her would be like finding a needle in a haystack, snow or not, BUT, I would think he would have been pretty paranoid, and would consider her body being found a strong possibility. If she is not in the snow somewhere, what are other options. Were the bodies of water out there already frozen? I'm not an experienced sleuther, but where else have bodies been found?

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 03:06 PM
I agree, very mysterious, strange, odd...

While I realize that JP probably wasn't thinking clearly during the disposal, don't you think he or his dad would have thought it would be a bad idea to put her in the freezing snow and ice where her body would be preserved fairly well? I understand that it's a big, big world out there, and finding her would be like finding a needle in a haystack, snow or not, BUT, I would think he would have been pretty paranoid, and would consider her body being found a strong possibility. If she is not in the snow somewhere, what are other options. Were the bodies of water out there already frozen? I'm not an experienced sleuther, but where else have bodies been found?

http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/mining/utmines.html

Dal Gal
01-12-2010, 03:14 PM
http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/mining/utmines.html

haha I was just about to post the same response. Utah, and especially around the Great Salt Lake, has numerous abandoned pit mines. If *I* wanted a body to not be found, that's right where I'd go.

Here's a government brochure about the hazards of these mines:
http://www.ogm.utah.gov/amr/AMBROCHR.HTM

kiki the parrot
01-12-2010, 03:17 PM
***************

I feel the reason the family is not searching is probably the same reason LE, the Ward, co-workers aren't searching. IMO, the family and LE has info that says a search isn't possible. What other reason could there be for a loving dad :waitasec: to go back home two states away and not search? The rest are following suit. Someone brought up Ed Smart. Him and his brother have organized and participated in other searches. Why not this one?

Yes, 20 people came to Josh's aid. There are several hundred in that ward who didn't. I don't see this as a religion thing. I'd say that's probably the same percentage in any case like this one where religion is not involved. There will always be people who don't want to see the obvious. There will always be people who don't want to know. There will always be people who don't want the burden of judging anyone and leave that up to God (if you are religious) and the justice system (for those not religious).

IMO, if the situation was reversed, Susan would have more backers and more people helping her. The public has a hard time believing women are capable of horrible crimes, especially crimes against their own children. And when these women are found guilty, the public still has a hard time handing down a death sentence.

(bbm) Hi suzi, *IMO* they're not searching because Josh hasn't yet provided them w the slightest clue of where to search. "I wouldn't even know where to begin..." The only way I believe that is if Susan's body was handed off, and he wasn't the one who actually disposed of her. She's not in seclusion being deprogrammed--and that wet spot wasn't a puddle of tears.

Btw lest we paint w too broad a brush here :/ please allow me to clarify that some of us faithfilled Godfearing folk actually understand we're not only subject to governmental authorities (obeying laws, LE, our judicial and our correctional systems) but can appreciate that it's PEOPLE who are needed to establish and enforce law and order--and have no desire to live in anarchy lol. (Not sure how *we* got lumped in w some "God alone can judge" crowd but assure you it's the farthest thing from the truth. Authority brings order and organization--and any "que sera sera, we're too harsh just forgive criminals don't judge" carp :boohoo: has nothing whatsoever to do w my beliefs, which I thought should be fairly and accurately represented.) JMVHO

:parrot:

gwenabob
01-12-2010, 03:21 PM
Agreed, I can only think she stayed with him as long a sshe did for the boys' sake, and becasue LDS frown on divorce even more than most religions, especially if it's the wife pushing for divorce.

It's very sad that Susan appears to have lived in fear of Josh for at least the past year, and started preparing herself to leave, but didn't get away in time.

Bartleby:

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the LDS view of divorce. Yes, we frown upon divorce as much as any other religion, and would hope that two people who made vows to each other would do everything in their power to honor those vows and work to stay in love and raise children in a stable loving home. But when one (or both) of the partners become overly controlling, abusive, threatening, etc. it is in the best interest of all to end that marriage and keep everyone safe and sane. And I would disagree that the church (or its members) would be any more unhappy with a woman pushing for divorce than a man. If anything, it would be the other way around!

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 03:24 PM
http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/mining/utmines.html

I get the point - there's a slew of mines to search, and with weather conditions and the terrain it makes it near impossible to find Susan. So, let's just forget about it and go have some hot chocolate. How sad is that?

gwenabob
01-12-2010, 03:28 PM
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.

It appears there is a search being organized. http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14161676&PageIndex=51

Someone named IDRINKCOKE is starting a loosely organized search and has gotten Home Depot to donate red tags to put on searcher's trucks and areas already searched. I am hoping the Trib and local radio stations will pick up on this and help promote it. I wish I lived in Utah so I could help too!

mom_of_five
01-12-2010, 03:42 PM
I'm not in Susan's friends/family's position (thank God), but I know that if I were missing, I'd be devastated to find out that NO ONE was searching for me.

If my child or loved one were missing, I wouldn't care if they were last seen in Siberia. No one would be able to keep me from looking for them.

I just do not understand the lack of searching.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 03:50 PM
I wonder what would have happened if nobody showed up to help Josh pack and he had to spend a week or two o in that house with Susan's memory and ghost. I bet she would have convinced him to tell the truth.

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 03:52 PM
(bbm) Hi suzi, *IMO* they're not searching because Josh hasn't yet provided them w the slightest clue of where to search. "I wouldn't even know where to begin..." The only way I believe that is if Susan's body was handed off, and he wasn't the one who actually disposed of her. She's not in seclusion being deprogrammed--and that wet spot wasn't a puddle of tears.

Btw lest we paint w too broad a brush here :/ please allow me to clarify that some of us faithfilled Godfearing folk actually understand we're not only subject to governmental authorities (obeying laws, LE, our judicial and our correctional systems) but can appreciate that it's PEOPLE who are needed to establish and enforce law and order--and have no desire to live in anarchy lol. (Not sure how *we* got lumped in w some "God alone can judge" crowd but assure you it's the farthest thing from the truth. Authority brings order and organization--and any "que sera sera, we're too harsh just forgive criminals don't judge" carp :boohoo: has nothing whatsoever to do w my beliefs, which I thought should be fairly and accurately represented.) JMVHO

:parrot:

But Kiki, with all due respect - who is not standing up to judge Josh? Who is not enforcing law and order? Letting LE do their job is not the same as condoning his behavior. Ten people going to help him move does not make them accomplices in Susan's murder.

Seriously, I think you've misjudged this. I'll tell you a few things I know for sure:

1) If LE announced, "We're going to do a search in such-and-such an area. We need everyone possible there" - there would be hundreds upon hundreds of people there. It happened with Elizabeth Smart. It happened with Lori Hacking. It would be at least that with Susan Powell. Nobody is taking Josh's side over Susan's. He has been deservedly vilified here.

As it is, nobody would have any idea where to start. Take a look at that list of mines I posted. Those are the big ones. I have a lot of bandwidth, and it still took fifteen seconds or so for that list to load. And as it says at the top of the list, those are just "some" of Utah's mines. And mines are just one type of place Susan could be hidden.

2) If Josh had been charged at this point, there wouldn't even be ten or so people that would come out to his house to help him. I don't know any of those people. But I bet you that they're great people, with great intentions. I bet Kiirsi is a great person, with great intentions. It's easy to play armchair QB here and say, "Those gullible fools! How could they help a murderer?" I'm guessing each of them have fairly complicated reasons for it - and mixed in each of those reasons is likely an innocent-until-proven-guilty approach. It's naive, maybe. But it's also the silly, naive approach that protects innocent people from being falsely charged. This isn't Salem.

If, and hopefully when, Josh is charged, you'll see that all stop. You won't see any public proclamations in his favor. You won't hear about it, but he will immediately be excommunicated from the LDS Church. You'll see him get served the same justice in front of a Utah jury that you would see in front of juries anywhere else in the US.

I should keep my mouth shut. But some of your comments almost make it sound as if people in his area are doing potlucks to raise money for his defense.

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 04:02 PM
I get the point - there's a slew of mines to search, and with weather conditions and the terrain it makes it near impossible to find Susan. So, let's just forget about it and go have some hot chocolate. How sad is that?

Okay, so let's follow that line. Let me ask you a few questions.

1) Who do you think should be searching? The general public? Susan's family? Law enforcement?

2) If you could guess, what is the main reason people like the Coxes are not searching? Specifically? Do they not love her as much as some families love their kids? Are they lazy?

I'm not trying to sound pretentious. I guess I just have a total disconnect on some of that thinking, and I really want to understand it.

mom_of_five
01-12-2010, 04:05 PM
I wonder what would have happened if nobody showed up to help Josh pack and he had to spend a week or two o in that house with Susan's memory and ghost. I bet she would have convinced him to tell the truth.

I agree.

Wouldn't it have been nice if no one showed up to help him pack and, instead, starting looking for Susan?! :banghead:

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 04:12 PM
Once, my newly adopted dog ran off and got lost. I could not rest until I found him. I drove around for days, asking strangers if they'd seen him, and actually got news he had been to a school ten blocks away. It was like my own investigation. Lucky for me, the dog found his way home, and scratched at the door in the pouring rain.

Another time, my bird got startled outside and flew off my shoulder over the canyon down to the next street. Most people might think it impossible that I'd find this little bird if I were to look. I did look, going up and down the streets calling his name. I did find him. He was sitting on someone's lawn looking terrified.

The whole point of my sharing is to stress that when a loved one is missing you won't be able to rest until they are found. Looking and searching is what you have to do.

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 04:14 PM
Once, my newly adopted dog ran off and got lost. I could not rest until I found him. I drove around for days, asking strangers if they'd seen him, and actually got news he had been to a school ten blocks away. It was like my own investigation. Lucky for me, the dog found his way home, and scratched at the door in the pouring rain.

Another time, my bird got startled outside and flew off my shoulder over the canyon down to the next street. Most people might think it impossible that I'd find this little bird if I were to look. I did look, going up and down the streets calling his name. I did find him. He was sitting on someone's lawn looking terrified.

The whole point of my sharing is to stress that when a loved one is missing you won't be able to rest until they are found. Looking and searching is what you have to do.

Okay, I understand that. So, you're saying that you think it's mostly Susan's family and friends that should be searching.

So, what about the second part of my question. If you could get inside their heads, what justification do you think they have for not searching?

mom_of_five
01-12-2010, 04:28 PM
I understand the innocent-until-proven-guilty viewpoint. Agreed. So why does anyone have to take sides at all? Why do their friends have to either support Josh or look for Susan? Why can't Josh and Susan's friends support Josh (if they believe him) AND look for Susan? I'm stumped.

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
Okay, so let's follow that line. Let me ask you a few questions.

1) Who do you think should be searching? The general public? Susan's family? Law enforcement?

2) If you could guess, what is the main reason people like the Coxes are not searching? Specifically? Do they not love her as much as some families love their kids? Are they lazy?

I'm not trying to sound pretentious. I guess I just have a total disconnect on some of that thinking, and I really want to understand it.

Answers:
(1) I would think LE would be able to encourage searching in specific areas. Being LE they must have a better idea of likely places to search. If not, why not? Please tell me they have gathered some useful information.

(2) Guess why family and friends are not into searching? I have no idea! That's the problem. I've even considered they already found a her body and are just waiting for the testing results. Honestly, I do understand that her family and friends must have some real good reason, but what is beyond me.

Now, it's your turn, DomCasual. Why are you so sure not searching is perfectly logical? I know about all the limitations, but really, is it right to give people the idea that searching is totally useless when Susan is still missing. Like many of you, I'm just a concerned citizen trying to make sense of this, and it isn't making sense to me. That's my complaint.

mom_of_five
01-12-2010, 04:31 PM
This is why I believe a large number of Susan's friends and church goers are not out searching for her.

I think Kiirsi has thrown out an unsubstantiated theory that anti mormons are possibly responsible for her disappearance and people have ran with that idea and feel it is worthless to try to look for her. I think the anti mormon part of this rumor gives it legs because people are more likely to believe that because of persecution of the church and peoples in the past.

But wouldn't that make her friends and family (and other Mormons) all the more determined to find her? :waitasec:

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 04:33 PM
This is why I believe a large number of Susan's friends and church goers are not out searching for her.

I think Kiirsi has thrown out an unsubstantiated theory that anti mormons are possibly responsible for her disappearance and people have ran with that idea and feel it is worthless to try to look for her. I think the anti mormon part of this rumor gives it legs because people are more likely to believe that because of persecution of the church and peoples in the past.

Interesting. Has she actually said that's what she thinks? Or, has she just said that she has reason to believe Susan might be out of state?

I'll be honest. I think that theory is highly unlikely. I've been in the LDS Church for more than 20 years, including two years on an LDS mission. I've known lots of anti-Mormons, including almost everyone in my immediate family. I've never heard of that happening. If she really believes that, then I would really question her credibility.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 04:34 PM
But wouldn't that make her friends and family (and other Mormons) all the more determined to find her? :waitasec:

Yes that is why they are using the FB and getting the flyers out. They believe she is alive in another state and you just cant drive to another state and look for a kidnapper.

mom_of_five
01-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Yes that is why they are using the FB and getting the flyers out. They believe she is alive in another state and you just cant drive to another state and look for a kidnapper.

Ah, I'm with you now :).

If I were Mormon, I'd be a) busting my you-know-what to find her and who took her and/or b) terrified that I or a loved one would be next.

IMO, Josh knows something. He either killed her (intentionally or not) or he conspired to have her kidnapped and 'deprogrammed'. At this point, unfortunately, my belief is the former. I pray that belief turns out to be incorrect. :praying:

Heatherly30
01-12-2010, 04:45 PM
With all due respect, it can't be rocket science. LE must know more than they're telling us. If they searched for Elizabeth Smart in the snow, I would imagine they would search for Susan in the snow, IF they thought she was still out there. They must know where she is, or what's going on, or something deeper that we can't even fathom. It sucks for us who are in the dark, it really does. I wish I knew what they know, and it drives me insane, but they have reasons for keeping it confidential. But it still sucks!

Now, this about Kiirsi...did she say or infer that Susan is being deprogrammed?

There are so many possibilities...

impatientredhead
01-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Answers:
(1) I would think LE would be able to encourage searching in specific areas. Being LE they must have a better idea of likely places to search. If not, why not? Please tell me they have gathered some useful information.

(2) Guess why family and friends are not into searching? I have no idea! That's the problem. I've even considered they already found a her body and are just waiting for the testing results. Honestly, I do understand that her family and friends must have some real good reason, but what is beyond me.

Now, it's your turn, DomCasual. Why are you so sure not searching is perfectly logical? I know about all the limitations, but really, is it right to give people the idea that searching is totally useless when Susan is still missing. Like many of you, I'm just a concerned citizen trying to make sense of this, and it isn't making sense to me. That's my complaint.

LE is not going to provide locations and tell civilians it is a their suggestion that they go completely untrained into the wilderness and endanger themselves and possibly trample a crime scene. But mostly endanger themselves, liability, not going to happen.

It is also an active investigation so they are not going to share what they know with any family members (been there done that). They may *know* what happened and they may *know* certain family members are absolutely not involved, but you don't know who is passing what info along to who that feeds it to the suspect. Or it ends up in the press. They are not going to endanger their investigation.

And lastly there is no specific place to search. He is not located in one spot for an hour via pings of a cellphone. There are no witnesses that pulled him out of a ditch. Based on his story and the time lapse there are hundreds of square miles of wilderness in which her body could be. They cannot use their limited manhour/resources doing that big of a wildcard search. It is not possible. Do you know how many searchers, hours, and dogs that would take to even begin?

This is not a toddler that possibly wander out the door and you do a gridsearch starting from home. In the Casey Anthony case their were people that said the vast majority of moms that kill their kid dump the body with in a couple of miles of the house. That radius encompassed ten square miles. That wasn't a feasible grid search. This certainly isn't.

Assuming their is a fraction of truth in his story and he dumped her in the mountains the church and family is probably not technically equipped to do a wintertime search with even a modicum of safety.

Now in the Casey Anthony case had the family actually wanted to organize a grid search with their home as the epicenter it would have been a suburban neighborhood in warm weather. They could have initiated that and there was good cause to ask why they weren't, but in this case there is not epicenter to start from. Not at this point.

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Now, it's your turn, DomCasual. Why are you so sure not searching is perfectly logical? I know about all the limitations, but really, is it right to give people the idea that searching is totally useless when Susan is still missing. Like many of you, I'm just a concerned citizen trying to make sense of this, and it isn't making sense to me. That's my complaint.

Thanks for answering.

I can only speak for myself about the searching thing.

I would have absolutely no idea where to begin with something like that. Even if you just focused on the area he says he was camping. It's a huge area, and most of it wouldn't even be accessible without snow mobiles or snow shoes. It's about three hours or so from where I live, so it's not like you could just head out there for an afternoon. And I'm like anyone else. I have a family to support. I have kids that need support. I have a marriage that could always use more attention.

There are lots of things I'd like to do with my time - things I never get time for. If I all of a sudden had a couple days with none of the aforementioned obligations, I would probably find other things to do - things that, IMO, would have a more immediate, positive impact than looking for a person that can no longer be helped or saved.

And lastly, I'm quite sure there are valid reasons the family and LE aren't scouring the area. I would bet that we'll know those reasons, at some point. I think it's telling that people like Chuck Cox and his law enforcement friends aren't out looking. They have more vested interest in a search than anyone else, and they have contacts that would allow them to search somewhat effectively. Yet, they themselves aren't searching. I don't think that's out of incompetence of laziness. I think that's because they believe a search wouldn't produce anything.

harleysnana
01-12-2010, 05:12 PM
This is why I believe a large number of Susan's friends and church goers are not out searching for her.

I think Kiirsi has thrown out an unsubstantiated theory that anti mormons are possibly responsible for her disappearance and people have ran with that idea and feel it is worthless to try to look for her. I think the anti mormon part of this rumor gives it legs because people are more likely to believe that because of persecution of the church and peoples in the past.

Or it could be as simple as LE is NOT supporting any outside searches.
In FACT they are discouraging them!

.... I think we all should sit back and let LE do their job.
I trust LE as well as Susan's friends and family are doing
what is in the best interest of Susan!

For some reason LE do not want people searching!
Maybe we can sleuth their reason instead of going over and over
and over again how some disagree with it!

AmandaReckonwith
01-12-2010, 05:15 PM
I get the point - there's a slew of mines to search, and with weather conditions and the terrain it makes it near impossible to find Susan. So, let's just forget about it and go have some hot chocolate. How sad is that?

Not just sad, it is pathetic.

harleysnana
01-12-2010, 05:23 PM
With all due respect, it can't be rocket science. LE must know more than they're telling us. If they searched for Elizabeth Smart in the snow, I would imagine they would search for Susan in the snow, IF they thought she was still out there. They must know where she is, or what's going on, or something deeper that we can't even fathom. It sucks for us who are in the dark, it really does. I wish I knew what they know, and it drives me insane, but they have reasons for keeping it confidential. But it still sucks!

Now, this about Kiirsi...did she say or infer that Susan is being deprogrammed? There are so many possibilities...

BBM.... No she did not say that! That is something that was started here.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Does anyone remember Kiirsi saying she got ahold of Josh and he was driving around before he came home that evening?

teacher 3
01-12-2010, 05:44 PM
Yes, I did see that a search is going to take place. That made me feel better, that at least some people will be looking. This case is very disturbing. I feel that Susan didn't stand a chance with that husband of hers and I only wish she could have gotten out of his clutches before it came to this. And I only have scorn for his father; I think he is an instigator (sp) sending his comments about the LDS church group. that just stirred the pot. there are just so many things wrong with this case;

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 05:46 PM
Or it could be as simple as LE is NOT supporting any outside searches.
In FACT they are discouraging them!

.... I think we all should sit back and let LE do their job.
I trust LE as well as Susan's friends and family are doing
what is in the best interest of Susan!

For some reason LE do not want people searching!
Maybe we can sleuth their reason instead of going over and over
and over again how some disagree with it!

I have to agree with there must be a reason. Does anyone have any idea why?

kiki the parrot
01-12-2010, 05:47 PM
But Kiki, with all due respect - who is not standing up to judge Josh? Who is not enforcing law and order? Letting LE do their job is not the same as condoning his behavior. Ten people going to help him move does not make them accomplices in Susan's murder.

Seriously, I think you've misjudged this. I'll tell you a few things I know for sure:

1) If LE announced, "We're going to do a search in such-and-such an area. We need everyone possible there" - there would be hundreds upon hundreds of people there. It happened with Elizabeth Smart. It happened with Lori Hacking. It would be at least that with Susan Powell. Nobody is taking Josh's side over Susan's. He has been deservedly vilified here.

As it is, nobody would have any idea where to start. Take a look at that list of mines I posted. Those are the big ones. I have a lot of bandwidth, and it still took fifteen seconds or so for that list to load. And as it says at the top of the list, those are just "some" of Utah's mines. And mines are just one type of place Susan could be hidden.

2) If Josh had been charged at this point, there wouldn't even be ten or so people that would come out to his house to help him. I don't know any of those people. But I bet you that they're great people, with great intentions. I bet Kiirsi is a great person, with great intentions. It's easy to play armchair QB here and say, "Those gullible fools! How could they help a murderer?" I'm guessing each of them have fairly complicated reasons for it - and mixed in each of those reasons is likely an innocent-until-proven-guilty approach. It's naive, maybe. But it's also the silly, naive approach that protects innocent people from being falsely charged. This isn't Salem.

If, and hopefully when, Josh is charged, you'll see that all stop. You won't see any public proclamations in his favor. You won't hear about it, but he will immediately be excommunicated from the LDS Church. You'll see him get served the same justice in front of a Utah jury that you would see in front of juries anywhere else in the US.

I should keep my mouth shut. But some of your comments almost make it sound as if people in his area are doing potlucks to raise money for his defense.

(bbm) I have no desire to go round and round on this w you--I've made myself clear numerous times. But since you directed this at me personally (and have mischaracterized my position) I will respond. From there I really pray that we can just accept we have a well established difference of opinion--and stay on topic. :)

My most recent post re "judging" was in direct response to the post I quoted (suzi's) who seem to have somehow been left w the general impression that we fall into one of 2 groups (paraphrasing): those who believe in meting out judgment on earth, and those who believe in "eternal judgment," thus leave everything to God :confused: Hopefully that's been cleared up.

It *was* the reason offered at one point (by people who either assisted JP or supported this) that they would go in hopes of picking up on some behavioral clues, seeing what they could find out etc (read the previous thread), and it's me who suggested that is LE's job. "Curiosity killed the cat" IIRC. That reason was offered in conjunction w "helping your friend," and I said that's not being what *I* call a friend. "Far better to let him take responsibility for his choices to not cooperate and leave." We were given "love your enemy," to which I've likewise responded. I see more support for JP (the presumed perp who won't oblige LE or cooperate) than I do for Susan (the victim). Then we heard that must be their way of honoring Susan. To help the man who in all probability murdered her? If that sits alright w you that's on you. I just don't accept these as legitimate reasons to assist the POI in their faithful churchmember's disappearance. We've seen JP having much support. Susan, not so much.

To say they must give him unbridled, unequivocal support and every benefit simply because he's not yet been officially charged--all while fully knowing circumstances: of his preposterous alibis which LE SAY do not pan out, can NOT be confirmed and which he REFUSES to verify; he's lawyered up and not working w LE; he's never asked for help in finding Susan nor plead for his wife's safe return; and now in just four weeks' time he's packed up w the boys and moved out of state w evidently no expectation of Susan returning--well seems a bit legalistic and pretentious IMO. Hopefully you understand a bit more how I feel, if not don't worry about it we just see things differently--and will likely continue to do so. JMO

:parrot:

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 05:58 PM
Hopefully you understand a bit more how I feel, if not don't worry about it we just see things differently--and will likely continue to do so. JMO

:parrot:

Your post made me smile. If this was a face-to-face conversation, this would be where I would just smile, nod my head, and say, "Yes, ma'am."

And I hope you take that as positive as I mean it. :)

angeleleven
01-12-2010, 06:15 PM
kiki...that was a great post. I feel like you are speaking for me, as well. Perfectly spoken....just couldn't agree with you more.

Cherry Baby
01-12-2010, 06:20 PM
In this whole searching scenerio the one person that should be looking for Susan and isn't...is her husband.

If it was my husband missing, or my child the only reason I would lose my job is because I was too busy being distressed, depressed, worried, and leading search parties myself. Not because I forgot it was a work day.

I haven't been following all the news like some have, but enough to know that somebody more worried about packing up a house than looking at maps and weather reports to plan search parties...well, I don't think I need say anything else.

JMO.

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 07:11 PM
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.

Mystified is an excellent word as I feel exactly the same as to why there have been no organized searches. The only conclusion that I can even entertain is that LE has conclusive proof that she is deceased. And as mentioned earlier...why put people through a search in winter when it could be dangerous. Rather than searching for a needle in a haystack just wait until they make an arrest, and see if sniveling Josh will confess when he understands the amount of evidence they have.

wyome
01-12-2010, 07:12 PM
I still can't get passed the theory that she's off getting deprogrammed. Who deprograms mormons?

kiki the parrot
01-12-2010, 07:19 PM
In this whole searching scenerio the one person that should be looking for Susan and isn't...is her husband.

If it was my husband missing, or my child the only reason I would lose my job is because I was too busy being distressed, depressed, worried, and leading search parties myself. Not because I forgot it was a work day.

I haven't been following all the news like some have, but enough to know that somebody more worried about packing up a house than looking at maps and weather reports to plan search parties...well, I don't think I need say anything else.

JMO.

(bbm) Agree cherry--and curious. This is the most telling of all isn't it...

We know the conditions are horrible... we know large scale searches haven't been organized yet... we know realistically, or rationally odds are against them... that there are risks, and that many S&R operations prioritize their resources and reserve dog and manpower for live searches vs recovery operations...
:(
...but if it were your own loved one... family member, sister, or friend... you could not rest... would search high and low, near and far... before you could give up. Even if it were a dismal venture, all but doomed to failure, in such a vast amount of territory... endless desert... snowcovered mountains... neverending woods... miles and miles of roadsides... it's so very overwhelming. And there is only one person--maybe two--who could make that job any easier... and he's not talking.
:mad:
It is the covering up--the throwing of the proverbial "sand (in this instance snow, more likely) on the grave"--which is nearly as cruel as the act of robbing this woman of her life, these parents of a daughter, and two young boys of their mother. Prayers for Susan--her family, and especially her boys to be in safety and in peace, God comfort and watch over them all. :prayer:

:parrot:

RayO
01-12-2010, 07:29 PM
Yes, I did see that a search is going to take place. That made me feel better, that at least some people will be looking. This case is very disturbing. I feel that Susan didn't stand a chance with that husband of hers and I only wish she could have gotten out of his clutches before it came to this. And I only have scorn for his father; I think he is an instigator (sp) sending his comments about the LDS church group. that just stirred the pot. there are just so many things wrong with this case;

Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

kiki the parrot
01-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Mystified is an excellent word as I feel exactly the same as to why there have been no organized searches. The only conclusion that I can even entertain is that LE has conclusive proof that she is deceased. And as mentioned earlier...why put people through a search in winter when it could be dangerous. Rather than searching for a needle in a haystack just wait until they make an arrest, and see if sniveling Josh will confess when he understands the amount of evidence they have.

Yes lemon. I have not wanted to say this, but this is what I've concluded as well. :( LE may not have the complete lab results and forensic reports in yet (and obviously haven't had enough conclusive evidence for probable cause). But they may be so firmly convinced that he drove such a distance w her body eg and w/out ability to pinpoint the direction, it seemed futile to marshal the resources, or recruit manpower, to organize a large scale operation. I pray this is wrong, but this has been my hunch as well. JMO

:parrot:

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 07:34 PM
(bbm) Agree cherry--and curious. This is the most telling of all isn't it...

We know the conditions are horrible... we know large scale searches haven't been organized yet... we know realistically, or rationally odds are against them... that there are risks, and that many S&R operations prioritize their resources and reserve dog and manpower for live searches vs recovery operations...
:(
...but if it were your own loved one... family member, sister, or friend... you could not rest... would search high and low, near and far... before you could give up. Even if it were a dismal venture, all but doomed to failure, in such a vast amount of territory... endless desert... snowcovered mountains... neverending woods... miles and miles of roadsides... it's so very overwhelming. And there is only one person--maybe two--who could make that job any easier... and he's not talking.
:mad:
It is the covering up--the throwing of sand (in this instance snow, more likely) on the grave--which is nearly as cruel as the act of robbing this woman of her life, these parents of a daughter, and two young boys of their mother. Prayers for Susan--her family, and especially her boys to be in safety and in peace, God comfort and watch over them all. :prayer:

:parrot:

I think she'll be found. I'm holding out hope for the forensics. It won't help find her, necessarily. But if it puts the screws on him a little more, maybe he'll cave in and do the right thing. I hadn't really followed the news over the weekend, other than reading the newspapers on Monday. I hadn't seen the coverage of "the move" until I checked out some blurbs on Amanda's Photobucket site. Joshy-Boy looks like crap in those pictures - like he's aging by the day. No matter what the guy did to Susan, I don't know that he has the stomach for carrying this, long-term.

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Can someone fill me in on why Ed Smart has been talked about in this case? I am trying to do so research on him and his involvement with missing people. I know I have read something just don't know where.

His daughter is Elizabeth Smart.

Pondering Mind
01-12-2010, 07:43 PM
Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

Hi Rayo and Welcome to WS! I haven't read where anyone is vilifying him...my guess is some prolly believe as I do that Josh IS a grown man and could/should make his own decisions regarding matters such as this. Especially when his father was well aware apparently that this was a bone of contention between Josh and Susan who are an adult married couple. Sometimes us parents of grown and in particular married children just need to mind our own business, ya know? If we can't help in such a situation, we sure shouldn't make it worse for them. Who does that kind of stuff anyway? JMHO...

DomCasual
01-12-2010, 07:49 PM
Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

I guess it all depends on how he handled it. My guess, from the little I've seen about him, is that he wasn't very graceful about it.

I have a sister who is really antagonistic towards Mormons. We're basically estranged - it got to the point where I couldn't have a conversation with her without getting hammered with religious criticism. Her husband was great for comments that started with, "No offense, but..."

Sure, it was within their right to say whatever they wanted to say to me. If they wanted to say, "No offense, but Mormons are devil worshipers" (the last conversation I had with them about it - more than ten years ago) - well, that was their prerogative. It was also within my right to just avoid them altogether. Marriage is hard enough without that nonsense - especially if it was coming from someone that Josh apparently revered.

Heatherly30
01-12-2010, 07:49 PM
Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

This is an interesting perspective worth considering. However, leaving out the anti-LDS literature, we know that the divorce between his mom and dad was drug out for several years with restraining orders and all. All but one of his grown, adult children live with him. AND, his daughter-in-law is missing and the most he has to say is that his son is being villified. I don't have a pretty picture in my mind of this man, but, I do appreciate you opening my mind about the leaving the church scenario. I am not LDS either, but grew up with several. It has always intrigued me. I remember asking them to clarify rumors about strange things I had heard about the religion and the response was something like, 'some people break the rules, are asked to leave the church, or choose to themselves, and then make up far fetched rumors about the church.' Some of that might be true, but some of those rumors might be true too. I guess the question is did Steven Powell go overboard with the discussion...who knows. Still wish I could learn more about him.

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 07:53 PM
BBM.... No she did not say that! That is something that was started here.

ITA, IMO Kiirsi was saying she believed Susan's body could have been dumped out of state. And she was saying where do you start searching? IIRC, she said this because she was getting slammed for not searching. How many turned that around to mean Susan was taken out of state alive, kidnapped, being de-programed is beyond me.

Frigga
01-12-2010, 08:01 PM
I'm going to add my two cents here, and Kiki I just want you to know that I couldn't agree with you more. I was raised in a Mormon family. My Father is Norwegian, and the only child in his family living in the United States, therefore I was raised entirely with my Mothers family (they are Mormon, my Dad converted for my Mother and then left the church when he left my Mother) . My parents divorced when I was a child, I am the youngest of six children. There were times after the divorce that the Church not only payed our mortgage or rent, they payed our utilities, gave us clothing and shoes and supplied us with ALL of our food from the Mormon storehouse that actually produces and cans its own food products and staples. This went on sometimes for months, until my Mother was able to support us again. My point is this, The Church could have stepped in and helped Josh and the boys STAY IN THEIR HOUSE, IN UTAH, for at least several months and helped to find him paid work... believe you me, they all come together for a church member and family in crisis- especially one in circumstances such as this. Women in the church (many who stay at home to raise their children) could and would have stepped in to help take care of the children while Josh worked AND/OR searched for Susan etc. In the State of Utah, and Salt lake City especially (where a VERY important Temple is located), in all likelihood Church members most likely run the bank that owns Josh's house if not own/partially own the actual Bank itself! This could have and would have been taken care of, I assure you, if that is WHAT JOSH HAD WANTED TO DO! The church is wealthy and has wealthy members that would step in to do whatever is necessary to make this possible. All of the excuses we heard for Josh leaving and going to his Fathers were exactly that- EXCUSES. What we witnessed on television with the turn out to help Josh move was nothing compared to what people would have done to help Josh STAY! I hope this helps clear some of these things up. They were doing the only thing (IMO) that Josh would ALLOW them to do and they WERE doing it for Susan and the boys- NOT Josh!

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 08:02 PM
Kiirsi said, “Monday morning I was doing school with my kids as usual--(I homeschool them)--and at around 10:30 a.m. my cell phone rang. It was Jenny, Josh's sister, who lives here in the Salt Lake valley and is very close to Susan. She sounded tense and worried and asked me when I had last seen or talked to Susan.”

She went on, “I was instantly worried. I told her ‘yesterday, walking home from church; everything seemed fine!’ She asked me if I had a key to their house or garage code. She told me she was at the house with several police cars, that Josh and Susan hadn't gone to work or taken the kids to daycare, that they weren't answering their cell phones or the door - that the daycare provider had gotten worried and called her and Josh's mom, Terri.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m1d5-Kiirsi-Hellewell-Pt-1-The-last-time-I-saw-Susan-Powell


So it was Jenny that went in the home with the police and must have told Mr. Cox about the wet spot.

passionflower
01-12-2010, 08:06 PM
NG is featuring Susan right now......

diphi
01-12-2010, 08:15 PM
With all due respect, it can't be rocket science. LE must know more than they're telling us. If they searched for Elizabeth Smart in the snow, I would imagine they would search for Susan in the snow, IF they thought she was still out there. They must know where she is, or what's going on, or something deeper that we can't even fathom. It sucks for us who are in the dark, it really does. I wish I knew what they know, and it drives me insane, but they have reasons for keeping it confidential. But it still sucks!

Now, this about Kiirsi...did she say or infer that Susan is being deprogrammed?

There are so many possibilities...

Yes, I agree. I think LE knows more than they're telling us and they knew it fairly early on. There is a definite reason no one is searching. I think Kiirsi and the family are floating some serious red herrings toward Josh so he gets comfortable and slips up (even more).

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 08:16 PM
Yes, I agree. I think LE knows more than they're telling us and they knew it fairly early on. There is a definite reason no one is searching. I think Kiirsi and the family are floating some serious red herrings toward Josh so he gets comfortable and slips up (even more).

Josh isn't around them anymore.

PercyVeer
01-12-2010, 08:16 PM
Hi Dear People; I am new to WS, long-time lurker. I appreciate the professionalism here, and the caring here. FYI: There is a new vid up on YT regarding asking people to check their memory December 6-8 regarding JP trips. Take Care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8udgNVodBQ

diphi
01-12-2010, 08:30 PM
Josh isn't around them anymore.

Sorry. I should have been more specific. I mean, by floating the idea that they think she is still alive somewhere, the blitz, etc., Josh may get a false sense of security.

OK5
01-12-2010, 08:34 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 08:42 PM
I'm going to add my two cents here, and Kiki I just want you to know that I couldn't agree with you more. I was raised in a Mormon family. My Father is Norwegian, and the only child in his family living in the United States, therefore I was raised entirely with my Mothers family (they are Mormon, my Dad converted for my Mother and then left the church when he left my Mother) . My parents divorced when I was a child, I am the youngest of six children. There were times after the divorce that the Church not only payed our mortgage or rent, they payed our utilities, gave us clothing and shoes and supplied us with ALL of our food from the Mormon storehouse that actually produces and cans its own food products and staples. This went on sometimes for months, until my Mother was able to support us again. My point is this, The Church could have stepped in and helped Josh and the boys STAY IN THEIR HOUSE, IN UTAH, for at least several months and helped to find him paid work... believe you me, they all come together for a church member and family in crisis- especially one in circumstances such as this. Women in the church (many who stay at home to raise their children) could and would have stepped in to help take care of the children while Josh worked AND/OR searched for Susan etc. In the State of Utah, and Salt lake City especially (where a VERY important Temple is located), in all likelihood Church members most likely run the bank that owns Josh's house if not own/partially own the actual Bank itself! This could have and would have been taken care of, I assure you, if that is WHAT JOSH HAD WANTED TO DO! The church is wealthy and has wealthy members that would step in to do whatever is necessary to make this possible. All of the excuses we heard for Josh leaving and going to his Fathers were exactly that- EXCUSES. What we witnessed on television with the turn out to help Josh move was nothing compared to what people would have done to help Josh STAY! I hope this helps clear some of these things up. They were doing the only thing (IMO) that Josh would ALLOW them to do and they WERE doing it for Susan and the boys- NOT Josh!

Absolutely fascinating input Frigga---had no idea. :angel:
thanks

angeleleven
01-12-2010, 08:44 PM
On Nancy Grace right now!

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 08:46 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

I'll take a stab at it. Right now I am LMAO. Omgosh, am still listening (or trying to). :sick: Surely gives you insight into delusion if someone thinks this has any entertainment value whatsoever. JMO of course

angeleleven
01-12-2010, 08:47 PM
NG said it would be over her dead body before her husband would take her kids camping in freezing temps.

angeleleven
01-12-2010, 08:48 PM
Kiirsi is on NG now.

diphi
01-12-2010, 08:48 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

I do see a potential resemblance. Wonder if he actually performs anywhere? Interesting that he said his mother "unilaterally" decided to move/leave...Kinda telling, I'd say.

angeleleven
01-12-2010, 08:51 PM
Kiirsi believes Josh is going to put flyers up for SP when he moves.

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 08:53 PM
Note that site of SP's was done by none other than "Polished Marketing"

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 08:56 PM
Kiirsi believes Josh is going to put flyers up for SP when he moves.

Right and he was sincere.

passionflower
01-12-2010, 08:57 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/About/MeetSteve.aspx

Did you read about how his father left them and took the kids to grandparents house and mom didn't know they had moved!!!! Did I read this right???
Please someone that knows how to photo this for keeps........I have a feeling it all will disappear soon..............yikes.......go read!!

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 08:57 PM
Kiirsi kind of struggled with that question about what she had asked Josh.

Heatherly30
01-12-2010, 08:58 PM
WOW, thanks for that link!! I won't comment on his talent, but the false name makes them all the more peculiar! I also find it interesting that the bio is about his boyhood. I haven't found anything about his current life/family. Also strange...

passionflower
01-12-2010, 08:58 PM
Right and he was sincere.

Betcha he threw them in the nearest dumpster!!!
BTW, could he of put Susan in a dumpster??
Josh said in video, he had no idea where to look............

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 08:59 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

After reading the "about me" section: oh my! no wonder Susan was afraid of Josh taking the kids. Have to wonder why that family believes that fathers are the sole owner's of their children? And not the mothers who bore, and loved them too? And the grandparents were in on it? That is some terrifying stuff.

diphi
01-12-2010, 09:03 PM
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/About/MeetSteve.aspx

Did you read about how his father left them and took the kids to grandparents house and mom didn't know they had moved!!!! Did I read this right???
Please someone that knows how to photo this for keeps........I have a feeling it all will disappear soon..............yikes.......go read!!

Just read it more closely. Really "twisted" is the only way I can describe it.

Cher352
01-12-2010, 09:07 PM
Not to change the subject but was still wondering about the van.

LE kept it what 2 days in the beginning then gave it back..right?

I know in the C Anthony case LE kept her car and still has it today after taking various pieces of the carpet out for testing. They also took air, dirt and grass samples from both the inside and undercarriage. Don't remember how vehicles in other cases have been handled but is it normal that the van have been given back to Josh if it was suspected that he used the van to dispose of the body? Would that be because LE didn't find anything in it suspicious enough to warrant keeping it?

So frustrating isn't it....In the Anthony case seems like so much was leaked and then in this case we are not hearing anything much at all!

passionflower
01-12-2010, 09:07 PM
I am changing some words so I don't get in trouble with any copy right stuff........but this is some of SP back ground as a child and it is very EERIE to me!!!!!
my dad made a secretive separation from my mom.
He took us to visit his parents while my mom went to spend the weekend with her aunt. Unbeknownst to her, my grandparents had, prior to that weekend visit, transported their trailer house and parked it in Weed.

Even at seven years old. "Where is momma?" I asked. I was told "You're never going to see your mother again." My siblings and I were inconsolable.

History repeats itself???

Heatherly30
01-12-2010, 09:08 PM
Just read it more closely. Really "twisted" is the only way I can describe it.

OMG...so bizarre...

"something seemed amiss to me, even at seven years old. "Where is momma?" I asked. Grandma curtly replied, "You're never going to see your mother again." Of course, that was more devastating than the disappearance of the green car. My older brother, my sister and I were inconsolable. My baby brother probably just wondered what the commotion was about. "

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 09:11 PM
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/About/MeetSteve.aspx

Did you read about how his father left them and took the kids to grandparents house and mom didn't know they had moved!!!! Did I read this right???
Please someone that knows how to photo this for keeps........I have a feeling it all will disappear soon..............yikes.......go read!!

Passionflower, OK, /All: just saved every page. I'm with you that this may not last long. If Amanda needs--I have it.

diphi
01-12-2010, 09:19 PM
Not to change the subject but was still wondering about the van.

LE kept it what 2 days in the beginning then gave it back..right?

I know in the C Anthony case LE kept her car and still has it today after taking various pieces of the carpet out for testing. They also took air, dirt and grass samples from both the inside and undercarriage. Don't remember how vehicles in other cases have been handled but is it normal that the van have been given back to Josh if it was suspected that he used the van to dispose of the body? Would that be because LE didn't find anything in it suspicious enough to warrant keeping it?

So frustrating isn't it....In the Anthony case seems like so much was leaked and then in this case we are not hearing anything much at all!

I know; that is a puzzle. It seems really strange that they did not find anything. What is the normal procedure on that. Anyone know?

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 09:30 PM
OK&3Js,

This is an absolute Godsend, and clears up so many questions. Have always wondered why Susan was sooo afraid of Josh just taking the boys, and disappearing. Now, it's quite clear. Very interesting, also, to read so-called lyrics of SPs. There's some great understanding of family dynamics here.

diphi
01-12-2010, 09:30 PM
Hi Dear People; I am new to WS, long-time lurker. I appreciate the professionalism here, and the caring here. FYI: There is a new vid up on YT regarding asking people to check their memory December 6-8 regarding JP trips. Take Care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8udgNVodBQ

Welcome, PercyVeer. Glad his face and vehicles are getting exposure.

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx


Thoughts?

Thank You for sharing, OKand3Js. Here's my :twocents:
I see it is a site about his music, but was surprised I couldn't hear any of his music in the background like some professional sites have.


The photo gallery is all Him, and really, he has to realize that might be boring after of few pictures of Him in a sweater, Him in a jacket, oh look Him near a keyboard. Narcissistic, not another living soul in those photos. Thumbs up on the dog tho'.

Very interesting about SP's own Mom secretly leaving with the children. Why is that mentioned in the first paragraph? Was it traumatic for him, but makes a good song.

The ending of About Him reads:
"Nowadays, when I write songs I do a bit of editing. The first words that offer themselves as partners for a given melody do not always make it to the final cut."

He should have shared that tidbit with Josh. It's too late now. Josh partnered his deed to his words telling us that silly story he told.

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Hi Dear People; I am new to WS, long-time lurker. I appreciate the professionalism here, and the caring here. FYI: There is a new vid up on YT regarding asking people to check their memory December 6-8 regarding JP trips. Take Care.

Percy you came on with a bang. TY, and Welcome!
All efforts to find Susan are gladly accepted here. Thanks also to whomever made that video.

GrandmaTo4
01-12-2010, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by SuziQ

I feel the reason the family is not searching is probably the same reason LE, the Ward, co-workers aren't searching. IMO, the family and LE has info that says a search isn't possible. What other reason could there be for a loving dad to go back home two states away and not search? The rest are following suit. Someone brought up Ed Smart. Him and his brother have organized and participated in other searches. Why not this one?

Yes, 20 people came to Josh's aid. There are several hundred in that ward who didn't. I don't see this as a religion thing. I'd say that's probably the same percentage in any case like this one where religion is not involved. There will always be people who don't want to see the obvious. There will always be people who don't want to know. There will always be people who don't want the burden of judging anyone and leave that up to God (if you are religious) and the justice system (for those not religious).

IMO, if the situation was reversed, Susan would have more backers and more people helping her. The public has a hard time believing women are capable of horrible crimes, especially crimes against their own children. And when these women are found guilty, the public still has a hard time handing down a death sentence.bolding mine

There's a big difference between the Elizabeth Smart case and the Susan Powell case.

1) Elizabeth was a young UNmarried girl with a young, SLC, wealthy father and multiple relatives.

Susan is/was a temple married woman with an out-of-state, much older father caring for Susan's ill mother.

2) Elizabeth's kidnapper was totally UNknown and certainly NOT assumed to be a fellow MALE Mormon.

Susan's suspected kidnapper/murderer IS known -- IS the HUSBAND -- and IS a fellow Mormon.

3) Obviously, Elizabeth had no babies who Ed Smart was worried he would lose forever if he was persistent - aggressive - and successful in his searches for Elizabeth.

Susan DOES have two sons who could be permanetly alienated from the Cox family forever if Chuck Cox angers the hierarchy of the vindictive, uncooperative Powell family.

Remember, Susan has sisters but no brothers who could also be fighting for justice for Susan.

IMO, it's rather obvious to all that Susan has been lost forever. I'm quite sure that Chuck Cox does not want to lose Susan's sons too.

*******************************
IF the Mormon church is the equal opportunity - all loving church they claim to be, THEY should be the ones organizing searches and beating the bushes to find one of their own supposedly loved, loyal members, Susan Cox Powell!

IMO, if the situation was reversed, Susan would have more backers and more people helping her.R E A L L Y ? _ But she receives NO Help as the obvious victim? _ Why? :waitasec:

Perhaps the fact that Susan is FEMALE with no powerful, LDS MALE relatives just might be a factor in the total lack of ANY efforts from the huge LDS organization to search for her - alive OR dead.

What an unfair, lame, hypocritical shame!

in my humble opinion

Fairy1
01-12-2010, 09:57 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

Very interesting. I can see the resemblance to Josh. BTW, Puyallup is NOT in the Puget Sound. It's close to Tacoma (where I was born!). And there's a world of difference between Tacoma and Seattle, IMO.

I'm a little behind here so I don't know if this has been mentioned before. I'm wondering if Josh and Susan ever went camping - in appropriate weather conditions - and if Susan ever mentioned the location(s) to her friends or co-workers. IMO, it's possible she is now somewhere that was familiar to them.

CCup
01-12-2010, 10:03 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

Chicken House Blues? Really? I needed that laugh! Thanks!

gwenabob
01-12-2010, 10:05 PM
[QUOTE=Fairy1;4671413]Very interesting. I can see the resemblance to Josh. BTW, Puyallup is NOT in the Puget Sound. It's close to Tacoma (where I was born!). And there's a world of difference between Tacoma and Seattle, IMO.

Oh, I don't know. As far as I am concerned, Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia are all on the Sound. Puyallup is just a suburb of Tacoma. Pretty darn close to the Sound, anyhow.

diphi
01-12-2010, 10:07 PM
Very interesting. I can see the resemblance to Josh. BTW, Puyallup is NOT in the Puget Sound. It's close to Tacoma (where I was born!). And there's a world of difference between Tacoma and Seattle, IMO.

I'm a little behind here so I don't know if this has been mentioned before. I'm wondering if Josh and Susan ever went camping - in appropriate weather conditions - and if Susan ever mentioned the location(s) to her friends or co-workers. IMO, it's possible she is now somewhere that was familiar to them.

That name does not readily come up in a Google search. I wonder if it was more of a personal page, to "prime the pump" for Polished Marketing, so to speak.

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 10:08 PM
Does anyone remember Kiirsi saying she got ahold of Josh and he was driving around before he came home that evening?

Yes I do recall someone contacting him. He stated that he was in WVC (pop 26,000), and it took him 2 hours to arrive home.
Just wife missing, no big.

passionflower
01-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Passionflower, OK, /All: just saved every page. I'm with you that this may not last long. If Amanda needs--I have it.

Thanks, I wish I knew more about saving and screenshots........I have tried and failed....the minute they know we know it will disappear!

PercyVeer
01-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Very interesting. I can see the resemblance to Josh. BTW, Puyallup is NOT in the Puget Sound. It's close to Tacoma (where I was born!). And there's a world of difference between Tacoma and Seattle, IMO.

I'm a little behind here so I don't know if this has been mentioned before. I'm wondering if Josh and Susan ever went camping - in appropriate weather conditions - and if Susan ever mentioned the location(s) to her friends or co-workers. IMO, it's possible she is now somewhere that was familiar to them.

Thank you folks, for the welcome. Gosh I hope I do this quote thing right !
The musician website info is fascinating ! What an intersting find !
Re: fairy1s thoughts, I have to agree and admit I have been thinking along those lines for some time.In cases I have read for years, many perps seem to go to that familiar area ! If I was there, I would be trying to find this info and go to those areas.

diphi
01-12-2010, 10:14 PM
Yes I do recall that. He stated that he was in WLV (pop 26,000), and it took him 2 hours to arrive home.

Do you mean West Valley City (WVC)?

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 10:18 PM
Do you mean West Valley City (WVC)?

oops yes, my bad :blushing:

PercyVeer
01-12-2010, 10:19 PM
Thanks, I wish I knew more about saving and screenshots........I have tried and failed....the minute they know we know it will disappear!

If this is not allowed, let me know ! Jus tryin 2 help find Susan and others.
Screenshot for important docs and pics on web.
Lower left corner keyboard: button says ctrl. Upper right, one says print screen or prt scrn. Go to desired website pic, hit both buttons together. let go. It is now invisibly saved on your clipboard. Do not shut page, just go to start and open paint.wait. When it opens hit ctrl and v together. This should paste it. go to file save, to name and save your screenshot. :)

diphi
01-12-2010, 10:21 PM
oops yes, my bad :blushing:

No problem. For a second there I thought we were talking West Las Vegas or something!:woohoo:

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 10:23 PM
If this is not allowed, let me know ! Jus tryin 2 help find Susan and others.
Screenshot for important docs and pics on web.
Lower left corner keyboard: button says ctrl. Upper right, one says print screen or prt scrn. Go to desired website pic, hit both buttons together. let go. It is now invisibly saved on your clipboard. Do not shut page, just go to start and open paint.wait. When it opens hit ctrl and v together. This should paste it. go to file save, to name and save your screenshot. :)

My daughter has windows 7 now and it has a real slick web shot taking and saving and cropping.

You can always save any page too by right clicking and chose save page as, I usually save as htlm.

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 10:24 PM
I still can't get passed the theory that she's off getting deprogrammed. Who deprograms mormons?

Software engineers?:crosseyed:

diphi
01-12-2010, 10:29 PM
:clap::clap:Software engineers?:crosseyed:

Lol! Good one!:crazy:

Fairy1
01-12-2010, 10:39 PM
[quote=Fairy1;4671413]Very interesting. I can see the resemblance to Josh. BTW, Puyallup is NOT in the Puget Sound. It's close to Tacoma (where I was born!). And there's a world of difference between Tacoma and Seattle, IMO.

Oh, I don't know. As far as I am concerned, Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia are all on the Sound. Puyallup is just a suburb of Tacoma. Pretty darn close to the Sound, anyhow.

Close in proximity perhaps - miles apart in terms of...well pretty much everything else . IMO.

Bartleby
01-12-2010, 10:46 PM
Thanks, I wish I knew more about saving and screenshots........I have tried and failed....the minute they know we know it will disappear!

If you're using Internet Explorer, see the word FILE, top left on the menu bar? Click on FILE, click on SAVE AS, give it a name, and click SAVE. This saves whatever page you're currently looking at, in its entirely (better than a screen shot which will only show what's on your screen). Remember where on your computer you saved it.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 10:52 PM
bolding mine

There's a big difference between the Elizabeth Smart case and the Susan Powell case.

1) Elizabeth was a young UNmarried girl with a young, SLC, wealthy father and multiple relatives.

Susan is/was a temple married woman with an out-of-state, much older father caring for Susan's ill mother.

2) Elizabeth's kidnapper was totally UNknown and certainly NOT assumed to be a fellow MALE Mormon.

Susan's suspected kidnapper/murderer IS known -- IS the HUSBAND -- and IS a fellow Mormon.

3) Obviously, Elizabeth had no babies who Ed Smart was worried he would lose forever if he was persistent - aggressive - and successful in his searches for Elizabeth.

Susan DOES have two sons who could be permanetly alienated from the Cox family forever if Chuck Cox angers the hierarchy of the vindictive, uncooperative Powell family.

Remember, Susan has sisters but no brothers who could also be fighting for justice for Susan.

IMO, it's rather obvious to all that Susan has been lost forever. I'm quite sure that Chuck Cox does not want to lose Susan's sons too.

*******************************
IF the Mormon church is the equal opportunity - all loving church they claim to be, THEY should be the ones organizing searches and beating the bushes to find one of their own supposedly loved, loyal members, Susan Cox Powell!

R E A L L Y ? _ But she receives NO Help as the obvious victim? _ Why? :waitasec:

Perhaps the fact that Susan is FEMALE with no powerful, LDS MALE relatives just might be a factor in the total lack of ANY efforts from the huge LDS organization to search for her - alive OR dead.

What an unfair, lame, hypocritical shame!

in my humble opinion

Very good post.

agathawannabe
01-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

Wow, what a bonanza! Thanks for sharing. I hope this will get a thread of its own. This is certainly something to chew on for awhile.

Can't help but wonder if parts of SP's biography are from an alternate universe.. lol

http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/About/MeetSteve.aspx

The above page has him being spirited away by his mother for a period of a "few months" then reconciliation of his parents - and THEN, around age 7, being taken from his mother by his dad/grandparents. He indicates relocation to Yakima with his father in time to start third grade.

http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/About/FirstTechnology.aspx

But then the above page talks about growing up with his single mother who worked as a secretary to support four children.

Seems like a huge discrepancy to me. Did SP and his siblings live with a single mother for a "few months" or does he recall "growing up" with her??

http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/LightOfSeattle/MiMunequita.aspx

Those lyrics really get me. It sure seems like SP might actually view his children as "little dolls"... but then.. to hear the bio tell it, the things SP chose to include would seem he also sees himself as having been a little doll to his own parents.

diphi
01-12-2010, 10:56 PM
[quote=gwenabob;4671467]

Close in proximity perhaps - miles apart in terms of...well pretty much everything else . IMO.

I imagine if you are from one area or another, you might see distinct differences between them that others might not see. I know my town is very different from the one located right next to us - and everyone in both towns would agree they are different. In fact, they were designed to be different. One is a large state capital, the other is a large bedroom community.

Bartleby
01-12-2010, 10:58 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

What awful music. I'n not surprised he's alone in the pictures, nobody would book an act like this, so all the shots are taken at home I guess. In the UK there's a comedian called John Shuttleworth who does music like this as part of his act, but that's deliberately bad. I think Steve is serious.

The website is poorly put together and presented IMO. You can listen to the tracks if you must, but it's not pleasant. The story about his childhood is disturbing. I feel so sorry for Susan's two boys being born into the third consecutive broken generation of Powells.

I tried listening to "Missing You", seemed appropriate, maybe something Steve should play to Josh to jog his memory of why he's back home with daddy the "musician". I use the term loosely. I couldn't bear to hear the whole thing, the singing is poor, the backing music annoying.

As for the name change, would you want your real name associated with this cr@p?

Oh, on the "Polished" website there's a spelling mistake in the first paragraph. I wouldn't employ any company that can't even be bothered to use a spell checker.

Fairy1
01-12-2010, 11:02 PM
[quote=Fairy1;4671601]

I imagine if you are from one area or another, you might see distinct differences between them that others might not see. I know my town is very different from the one located right next to us - and everyone in both towns would agree they are different. In fact, they were designed to be different. One is a large state capital, the other is a large bedroom community.

Well, I was actually born in Tacoma and partially raised in Enumclaw. Are you from WA?

OK5
01-12-2010, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel
Does anyone remember Kiirsi saying she got ahold of Josh and he was driving around before he came home that evening?


Yes I do recall that. He stated that he was in WVC (pop 26,000), and it took him 2 hours to arrive home.
Just wife missing, no big.

Actually, I just want to clear this up. Kiirsi is NOT the one who got a hold of Josh. She told reporters that first week that Jovonna was the one who finally got through to Josh and talked to him that first Monday afternoon, but the reporter reported it wrong.

diphi
01-12-2010, 11:10 PM
[quote=diphi;4671705]

Well, I was actually born in Tacoma and partially raised in Enumclaw. Are you from WA?

No, I'm from the East coast. I've been to WA and UT, though. Both beautiful states, for very different reasons.

diphi
01-12-2010, 11:15 PM
Actually, I just want to clear this up. Kiirsi is NOT the one who got a hold of Josh. She told reporters that first week that Jovonna was the one who finally got through to Josh and talked to him that first Monday afternoon, but the reporter reported it wrong.

Yes, I remember hearing that from somewhere. It was Jovonna who finally got through.

lemonmoussetart
01-12-2010, 11:24 PM
[quote=gwenabob;4671467]

Close in proximity perhaps - miles apart in terms of...well pretty much everything else . IMO.

Most definitely Fairy,and Gwen. Used to live in Tacoma, then Seattle. Puget Sound only seen from Seattle, they are many miles apart. And he's singing about Seattle? As a former resident the song stylings of SP hold nothing akin to thoughts of Seattle.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 11:26 PM
IF the Mormon church is the equal opportunity - all loving church they claim to be, THEY should be the ones organizing searches and beating the bushes to find one of their own supposedly loved, loyal members, Susan Cox Powell!

R E A L L Y ? _ But she receives NO Help as the obvious victim? _ Why?

Perhaps the fact that Susan is FEMALE with no powerful, LDS MALE relatives just might be a factor in the total lack of ANY efforts from the huge LDS organization to search for her - alive OR dead.

What an unfair, lame, hypocritical shame!

in my humble opinion

*********************

Since when did the Mormon Church get into the missing persons business? It was Ed Smart who organized friends and neighbors to search. Publicity led to the search. For some reason, the police in West Valley and the victims own parents have discouraged this search. We don't know why. They must have inside info we are not privy to. To claim that it is the Mormon church's responsibility somehow to find this poor woman is silly. You wouldn't go to Boston and expect the Catholic church to take charge to find a missing person would you? Or go to Atlanta and ask why the Baptists aren't rounding everyone up? Why the double standard?

BBM

Why do you say this?

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 11:27 PM
[quote=Fairy1;4671601]

Most definitely Fairy,and Gwen. Used to live in Tacoma, then Seattle. Puget Sound only seen from Seattle, they are many miles apart. And he's singing about Seattle? As a former resident the song stylings of SP hold nothing akin to thoughts of Seattle.


I used to live in Olympia!

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 11:30 PM
Okay guys and gals...

I got tipped some VERY interesting info about a website all about Steven Powell himself! We can finally get some info on him. There are tons of pics, a bio, and song recordings, etc.

It is also under a completely different name but people who know him very well have I.D.'d that it is indeed him. (Based on the some of the pics, I can see the resemblance to Josh and Michael)

Also, Josh must have built this site because Polished Marketing is his little side programming business. So he built it for his dad. Why Steven Powell is doing it under a different name is beyond me. Check it out.

Here is the link:
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/Default.aspx

Thoughts?

Eeek! That's the worst stuff I've exposed my ears to in a long time! The young picture of him looks just like his son's.

gwenabob
01-12-2010, 11:32 PM
Very good post.

BBM

Why do you say this?

I do not have a link. It is what others are saying at the SL trib comment site.
I believe it is also what is being said at the official friends of Susan Powell facebook site.

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 11:38 PM
bolding mine

There's a big difference between the Elizabeth Smart case and the Susan Powell case.

1) Elizabeth was a young UNmarried girl with a young, SLC, wealthy father and multiple relatives.

Susan is/was a temple married woman with an out-of-state, much older father caring for Susan's ill mother.

2) Elizabeth's kidnapper was totally UNknown and certainly NOT assumed to be a fellow MALE Mormon.

Susan's suspected kidnapper/murderer IS known -- IS the HUSBAND -- and IS a fellow Mormon.

3) Obviously, Elizabeth had no babies who Ed Smart was worried he would lose forever if he was persistent - aggressive - and successful in his searches for Elizabeth.

Susan DOES have two sons who could be permanetly alienated from the Cox family forever if Chuck Cox angers the hierarchy of the vindictive, uncooperative Powell family.

Remember, Susan has sisters but no brothers who could also be fighting for justice for Susan.

IMO, it's rather obvious to all that Susan has been lost forever. I'm quite sure that Chuck Cox does not want to lose Susan's sons too.

*******************************
IF the Mormon church is the equal opportunity - all loving church they claim to be, THEY should be the ones organizing searches and beating the bushes to find one of their own supposedly loved, loyal members, Susan Cox Powell!

R E A L L Y ? _ But she receives NO Help as the obvious victim? _ Why? :waitasec:

Perhaps the fact that Susan is FEMALE with no powerful, LDS MALE relatives just might be a factor in the total lack of ANY efforts from the huge LDS organization to search for her - alive OR dead.

What an unfair, lame, hypocritical shame!

in my humble opinion

All I'm gonna say is.....wow. :waitasec:

diphi
01-12-2010, 11:42 PM
No one has actually said, "Do not search," but clearly, it is not being encouraged. Nor has there been any significant (not meaning to diminish those who have searched on their own) organized effort by any entity, including LE and the Church.

Why in the world is that? There has GOT to be a reason. Why???? I really don't think it has anything to do with religion.

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 11:42 PM
I do not have a link. It is what others are saying at the SL trib comment site.
I believe it is also what is being said at the official friends of Susan Powell facebook site.
Gwen, I just found this on Kiirsi site.

http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/

Here’s the lowdown on the physical search: Chuck Cox, Susan’s father, has said that if anyone wants to do their own search, you must contact the West Valley PD. Get their permission and register a record of where in the wilderness you want to search and then report back to them after you’re done.

diphi
01-12-2010, 11:46 PM
All I'm gonna say is.....wow. :waitasec:

What do you mean?

Dr.Fessel
01-12-2010, 11:46 PM
Do people really think you have to get the permission to search for Susan from the WV police?

diphi
01-12-2010, 11:49 PM
Do people really think you have to get the permission to search for Susan from the WV police?

I know. That was my exact thought the first time I read it. Would I ever ask the police if I could search for someone? NOPE! I mean, really...

Curious Me
01-12-2010, 11:49 PM
What awful music. I'n not surprised he's alone in the pictures, nobody would book an act like this, so all the shots are taken at home I guess. In the UK there's a comedian called John Shuttleworth who does music like this as part of his act, but that's deliberately bad. I think Steve is serious.

The website is poorly put together and presented IMO. You can listen to the tracks if you must, but it's not pleasant. The story about his childhood is disturbing. I feel so sorry for Susan's two boys being born into the third consecutive broken generation of Powells.

I tried listening to "Missing You", seemed appropriate, maybe something Steve should play to Josh to jog his memory of why he's back home with daddy the "musician". I use the term loosely. I couldn't bear to hear the whole thing, the singing is poor, the backing music annoying.

As for the name change, would you want your real name associated with this cr@p?

Oh, on the "Polished" website there's a spelling mistake in the first paragraph. I wouldn't employ any company that can't even be bothered to use a spell checker.

Thanks, I missed hearing his actual music the first time. Enjoyed your opinions. I say "Close, but no cigar". I just don't like that type of music. I felt like I was stuck on a cruise ship and we were going to form a conga line any minute, or it was bad broadway musical. The experience was just not pleasant.

SuziQ
01-12-2010, 11:58 PM
Do people really think you have to get the permission to search for Susan from the WV police?

Well I don't think I would be arrogant enough to think I know more than LE and family and overstep that request if that's what the family and LE wants. I have no desire to personally be the cause of a potential problem and eventual non prosecution of Josh.

Fairy1
01-13-2010, 12:03 AM
Actually, I just want to clear this up. Kiirsi is NOT the one who got a hold of Josh. She told reporters that first week that Jovonna was the one who finally got through to Josh and talked to him that first Monday afternoon, but the reporter reported it wrong.

So who was the first one to make contact with JP that day and exactly how far out was he from WVC?

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:04 AM
Well I don't think I would be arrogant enough to think I know more than LE and family and overstep that request if that's what the family and LE wants. I have no desire to personally be the cause of a potential problem and eventual non prosecution of Josh.

Wait, you mean you think someone really seriously thinks you have to get permission from the police to search for Susan? How could finding Susan's body end up a non prosecution for Josh?

gwenabob
01-13-2010, 12:13 AM
Wait, you mean you think someone really seriously thinks you have to get permission from the police to search for Susan? How could finding Susan's body end up a non prosecution for Josh?

I really don't know the answer to why the cops want people to check in with them, but common sense tells me it might be for two reasons:

1. to prevent people from getting hurt, lost, etc. and causing more harm than good, and
2. to prevent people looking in the same places over and over. If everybody checks in, they can tell you if that spot has been looked over yet. More ground can be covered if everybody looks in a different place.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:14 AM
So who was the first one to make contact with JP that day and exactly how far out was he from WVC?
I think it was reported he was in WVC and just driving around when she got a hold of him and he drove around for another 2 hours before he came home.

diphi
01-13-2010, 12:17 AM
Well I don't think I would be arrogant enough to think I know more than LE and family and overstep that request if that's what the family and LE wants. I have no desire to personally be the cause of a potential problem and eventual non prosecution of Josh.

I would not describe it as arrogance. When I read what Kiirsi wrote about getting permission from LE, my first thought was, "Well, if they aren't searching then why would I bother to get their "permission"? I haven't even heard anything about them "coordinating" searches. Now, it seems to me that, in order for searches to efficient and effective, someone needs to know where the searches are being held and make recommendations as to where a search is needed. Yet, we have absolutely no indication that LE is taking on that role.

So, if I were to search, I would call LE in the hopes I could find out where they think I should search. Given their apparent unwillingness to coordinate, I wouldn't expect much of a response from them. Then, I would go search - whereever - and report back to them where I had been and what I found. That's just me, though.

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 12:20 AM
Wait, you mean you think someone really seriously thinks you have to get permission from the police to search for Susan? How could finding Susan's body end up a non prosecution for Josh?

Uh hardly. IMO, the family is merely asking people to check with LE first and do this in an organized manner. The interpretation of the word permission is a bit strong. I think maybe since LE is in this business and the rest of us who are not and basically don't know what we'd be doing in our searches, risk a good chance of destroying evidence. In turn, risking the chance of Josh not being prosecuted or being fully prosecuted as harshly as he could be. Do you want to be the one person who screwed that up? I don't. But hey, at least Susan was found!

LE isn't asking for the publics help. Why should we be so arrogant to think they need or want help from people who could screw up their case? Sometimes when people mean well and think they are helping, well they aren't helping.

diphi
01-13-2010, 12:24 AM
I agree the word "permission" was probably a poor choice.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:24 AM
I really don't know the answer to why the cops want people to check in with them, but common sense tells me it might be for two reasons:

1. to prevent people from getting hurt, lost, etc. and causing more harm than good, and
2. to prevent people looking in the same places over and over. If everybody checks in, they can tell you if that spot has been looked over yet. More ground can be covered if everybody looks in a different place.

Here is the thing I am talking about. The police would never ever tell anyone or suggest to anyone you had to get permission from them to search for Susan.

Fairy1
01-13-2010, 12:26 AM
Wait, you mean you think someone really seriously thinks you have to get permission from the police to search for Susan? How could finding Susan's body end up a non prosecution for Josh?

It's not just finding Susan - but evidence that may be with or near her. There are professional search and recovery people who know exactly how to handle these matters and who would brief searchers on what to look for or what to do if they were to find anything of interest.

For the most part, family and friends are discouraged from such searches. How would you feel if you came across the remains of a loved one?

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 12:28 AM
What awful music. I'n not surprised he's alone in the pictures, nobody would book an act like this, so all the shots are taken at home I guess. In the UK there's a comedian called John Shuttleworth who does music like this as part of his act, but that's deliberately bad. I think Steve is serious.

The website is poorly put together and presented IMO. You can listen to the tracks if you must, but it's not pleasant. The story about his childhood is disturbing. I feel so sorry for Susan's two boys being born into the third consecutive broken generation of Powells.

I tried listening to "Missing You", seemed appropriate, maybe something Steve should play to Josh to jog his memory of why he's back home with daddy the "musician". I use the term loosely. I couldn't bear to hear the whole thing, the singing is poor, the backing music annoying.

As for the name change, would you want your real name associated with this cr@p?

Oh, on the "Polished" website there's a spelling mistake in the first paragraph. I wouldn't employ any company that can't even be bothered to use a spell checker.

En pointe Bartle. My exact sentiments. There are sooo many typos throughout. What, no editing? Or was that done by JP? Initial thing that caught me was in first paragraph in the "about Steve" section was the term:

unilateral and secretive decision (for Mom)

then...
unilateral and secretive decision (for Dad)

This was used twice on same page, not to mention first page. Thought in the beginning: this guy has a fairly good vocabulary. Then 2 times, and no one caught it? Who's the bigger fool here, the "musician," or Polished Marketing?

impatientredhead
01-13-2010, 12:30 AM
Uh hardly. IMO, the family is merely asking people to check with LE first and do this in an organized manner. The interpretation of the word permission is a bit strong. I think maybe since LE is in this business and the rest of us who are not and basically don't know what we'd be doing in our searches, risk a good chance of destroying evidence. In turn, risking the chance of Josh not being prosecuted or being fully prosecuted as harshly as he could be. Do you want to be the one person who screwed that up? I don't. But hey, at least Susan was found!

LE isn't asking for the publics help. Why should we be so arrogant to think they need or want help from people who could screw up their case? Sometimes when people mean well and think they are helping, well they aren't helping.

I read the request the same way you did. If you are searching on behalf of the family they want you to check in with LE, let them know where you are going and check in with them when you get back.

Not only does that LE know where searches have occured and help maintain some semblence of organization, I would guess the family does not want to find out some well intentioned searcher got themselves lost in the woods, got hurt, or became a victim of the temperatures. It is basic hiking safety to let the people who would have to come find you where you are going and when you get back.

I am not seeing this common claim that searching is being discouraged for some sinister reason. I am seeing requests of common sense and the family stating what they would like to see done if you are searching on their behalf.

I am so throughly confused by the deprogramming theory that I can only couch that under a desperate wish for an outcome other than the inevitable one in this case.

moo

diphi
01-13-2010, 12:31 AM
It's not just finding Susan - but evidence that may be with or near her. There are professional search and recovery people who know exactly how to handle these matters and who would brief searchers on what to look for or what to do if they were to find anything of interest.

For the most part, family and friends are discouraged from such searches. How would you feel if you came across the remains of a loved one?

But, what if no one else is willing to search? It becomes a risk issue - the risk that an unprofessional/family person finds her vs the risk that no one finds her because no one is looking. I don't know - what would you do?

gwenabob
01-13-2010, 12:34 AM
Here is the thing I am talking about. The police would never ever tell anyone or suggest to anyone you had to get permission from them to search for Susan.


What if people did find the remains and then picked them up and carried them to their truck and drove them to the police station? You and I might know how wrong that is, but would everyone? How about if everyone checks with the police before they go so at the very least the police can remind them that if they find anything at all, just leave it alone and call police right away.

impatientredhead
01-13-2010, 12:34 AM
Here is the thing I am talking about. The police would never ever tell anyone or suggest to anyone you had to get permission from them to search for Susan.

This is not true.

The family was asked not to be involved with searches early on in the Haleigh Cummings cases. We have seen others where LE has said the area in question is too dangerous for inexperienced searchers. There is the issue of private land. But this black and white statement that LE would never suggest who should and shouldn't be searching is just patently false.

diphi
01-13-2010, 12:34 AM
En pointe Bartle. My exact sentiments. There are sooo many typos throughout. What, no editing? Or was that done by JP? First thing that caught me was in first paragraph in the "about Steve" section was the term:

unilateral and secretive decision (for Mom)then...

unilateral and secretive decision (for Dad)

This was used TWICE on same page. Thought in the beginning: this guy has a fairly good vocabulary. Then 2 times, and no one caught it? Who's the bigger fool here, the "musician," or Polished Marketing?

IMO these were written in a very deliberate and purposeful manner - by SP

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:34 AM
Uh hardly. IMO, the family is merely asking people to check with LE first and do this in an organized manner. The interpretation of the word permission is a bit strong. I think maybe since LE is in this business and the rest of us who are not and basically don't know what we'd be doing in our searches, risk a good chance of destroying evidence. In turn, risking the chance of Josh not being prosecuted or being fully prosecuted as harshly as he could be. Do you want to be the one person who screwed that up? I don't. But hey, at least Susan was found!

LE isn't asking for the publics help. Why should we be so arrogant to think they need or want help from people who could screw up their case? Sometimes when people mean well and think they are helping, well they aren't helping.


Yeah it is real hard to go look around see a body and call the cops. Let's face it, they aren't doing a real good job finding her and I think they will be happy as heck when Joe Blow does finds her. Quicker the better before evidence is lost.

gwenabob
01-13-2010, 12:38 AM
Yeah it is real hard to go look around see a body and call the cops. Let's face it, they aren't doing a real good job finding her and I think they will be happy as heck when Joe Blow does finds her. Quicker the better before evidence is lost.

But again, the evidence could be ruined if Joe Blow and all his buddies and their cousins do find it! At least the cops could remind them not to touch anything.

PercyVeer
01-13-2010, 12:38 AM
It is quite true, I couldn't deal with coming across the remains of my loved one very well. I would have slight problem coming across the remains of my neighbor's loved one. (got medical experience) I believe it is great to have professionals in a society, but do we have enough to cover the needs of the many missing persons cases? IDK.

impatientredhead
01-13-2010, 12:39 AM
It's not just finding Susan - but evidence that may be with or near her. There are professional search and recovery people who know exactly how to handle these matters and who would brief searchers on what to look for or what to do if they were to find anything of interest.

For the most part, family and friends are discouraged from such searches. How would you feel if you came across the remains of a loved one?

It is also LE trying to conduct an investigation and not have 80% of their staff running around trying to manage civilian searchers. If and when they have a reasonable idea where to search a group like Tim Miller's group will have an organized search where inexperienced searchers work with a team leader.

I don't see this large group of organized volunteers that LE is restraining from searching, but the idea that they are going to sanction it and encourage it is ridiculous. Volunteer wrangling is not their job and it is a huge liability issue to be in a position of endorsing it.

Tricia
01-13-2010, 12:41 AM
No More Mormon Bashing.

The reason Elizabeth Smart's case was a big deal and the Mormon Church became involved is because of ED SMART ORGANIZING it along with his family.

Also these are two totally different cases.

If it did any good to argue religion I would say go for it but it does nothing but get everyone angry and disagreeable.

Thank you for understanding.

Tricia

Doctorwoof
01-13-2010, 12:42 AM
As for Susan being kidnapped and deprogrammed I highly doubt it. There is another possible scenario where she is still alive. Here is a post that I made on SL Tribune board back on 12/23/09.

“You would need the analytical skills of an O.J. Simpson juror not to conclude that Josh is guilty. In fact he is acting so guilty that I began to wonder if this could be a Balloon Boy type hoax. He drives hundreds of miles with a rental then goes to neighbor to take him to pick up his van with “severely wind burned hands”. Just in case the neighbor didn’t notice his hands he kept applying lotion to them.

His alibi, the two fans, not helping police, the rental car and now this. How could he have drawn more attention to his guilt? If Susan turns up alive after the holidays with some crazy story to tell the talk shows we’ll know it’s been a hoax.

I know it’s a long shot. But it is hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as Josh is acting.”

Although I think this is an unlikely scenario it is one that I can’t completely shake. Josh (and maybe Daddy) dream this up and get Susan to go along. Instead of camping Josh drives Susan to meet his brother/father who drives Susan up to the Powell’s in Washington. Everything is staged to make Josh look as guilty as possible. Eventually Susan turns up in some random town telling LE she has just been released by her kidnapper. After Susan turns up everyone will be sympathetic to Josh and his family for accusing him. He can go on talk shows as the poor man who lost his job and was driven from his home by the false accusations of neighbors, press etc. Susan can talk about her time in captivity. Of course when she turns up she will have no useful information to help police locate her “captures”.

Again, I don not think this likely. It just keeps popping up in the back of my mind and I wanted to see what you guys thought.

There are aspects that fit. Like Kiirsi saying she got a message that led her to believe Susan was alive and in another state. Susan could have seen how hard her friend was taking this and got a message to her that she was alive without exposing all the details. It also fits with how LE is acting. They seem like the cat that swallowed the canary. They imply they know what happened but aren’t too concerned about locating a body.

The biggest problem with this theory is that Susan couldn’t possibly put her parents through this. She would have told them by now and her father doesn’t seem like the type to go along with something like this. However, he isn’t on camera pleading for help finding his daughter like most missing parents are.

I’m going to say it one more time. This is in no way the scenario I think most likely. Please don’t tell me how crazy I am. I’m 99.9% sure Josh murdered Susan and besides I already know I’m crazy.

diphi
01-13-2010, 12:43 AM
It is quite true, I couldn't deal with coming across the remains of my loved one very well. I would have slight problem coming across the remains of my neighbor's loved one. (got medical experience) I believe it is great to have professionals in a society, but do we have enough to cover the needs of the many missing persons cases? IDK.

I can say with certainty that NO we do not! So, we all might as well get comfortable with interested lay people getting heavily involved. Frankly, anyone who is willing to search would really know not to touch anything. People are getting more and more sophisticated about this sort of thing thanks to CSI, etc.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:46 AM
This is not true.

The family was asked not to be involved with searches early on in the Haleigh Cummings cases. We have seen others where LE has said the area in question is too dangerous for inexperienced searchers. There is the issue of private land. But this black and white statement that LE would never suggest who should and shouldn't be searching is just patently false.


Go back and read my statement and then read what you said I wrote in black and white. They are two entirely different things.

The police did not tell Haleigh Cummings family they had to get permission or that they could not search for Haleigh. They might have suggested they don't search for her but the police could not stop them.

The police have nothing to do with private property, you have to get permission for that from the landowners which most of the land in Utah is federal land where you do not need permission from a landowner.

The police can not tell people they can't search an area simply because it is dangerous. Otherwise 90 percent of the stuff Utahans do for fun would be illegal.

gwenabob
01-13-2010, 12:49 AM
As for Susan being kidnapped and deprogrammed I highly doubt it. There is another possible scenario where she is still alive. Here is a post that I made on SL Tribune board back on 12/23/09.

“You would need the analytical skills of an O.J. Simpson juror not to conclude that Josh is guilty. In fact he is acting so guilty that I began to wonder if this could be a Balloon Boy type hoax. He drives hundreds of miles with a rental then goes to neighbor to take him to pick up his van with “severely wind burned hands”. Just in case the neighbor didn’t notice his hands he kept applying lotion to them.

His alibi, the two fans, not helping police, the rental car and now this. How could he have drawn more attention to his guilt? If Susan turns up alive after the holidays with some crazy story to tell the talk shows we’ll know it’s been a hoax.

I know it’s a long shot. But it is hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as Josh is acting.”

Although I think this is an unlikely scenario it is one that I can’t completely shake. Josh (and maybe Daddy) dream this up and get Susan to go along. Instead of camping Josh drives Susan to meet his brother/father who drives Susan up to the Powell’s in Washington. Everything is staged to make Josh look as guilty as possible. Eventually Susan turns up in some random town telling LE she has just been released by her kidnapper. After Susan turns up everyone will be sympathetic to Josh and his family for accusing him. He can go on talk shows as the poor man who lost his job and was driven from his home by the false accusations of neighbors, press etc. Susan can talk about her time in captivity. Of course when she turns up she will have no useful information to help police locate her “captures”.

Again, I don not think this likely. It just keeps popping up in the back of my mind and I wanted to see what you guys thought.

There are aspects that fit. Like Kiirsi saying she got a message that led her to believe Susan was alive and in another state. Susan could have seen how hard her friend was taking this and got a message to her that she was alive without exposing all the details. It also fits with how LE is acting. They seem like the cat that swallowed the canary. They imply they know what happened but aren’t too concerned about locating a body.

The biggest problem with this theory is that Susan couldn’t possibly put her parents through this. She would have told them by now and her father doesn’t seem like the type to go along with something like this. However, he isn’t on camera pleading for help finding his daughter like most missing parents are.

I’m going to say it one more time. This is in no way the scenario I think most likely. Please don’t tell me how crazy I am. I’m 99.9% sure Josh murdered Susan and besides I already know I’m crazy.

Certainly an interesting theory, but I suspect the "message" that Kiirsi got (if there really was one) was from Steve Powell talking in a "mean kidnapper" voice!

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:51 AM
As for Susan being kidnapped and deprogrammed I highly doubt it. There is another possible scenario where she is still alive. Here is a post that I made on SL Tribune board back on 12/23/09.

“You would need the analytical skills of an O.J. Simpson juror not to conclude that Josh is guilty. In fact he is acting so guilty that I began to wonder if this could be a Balloon Boy type hoax. He drives hundreds of miles with a rental then goes to neighbor to take him to pick up his van with “severely wind burned hands”. Just in case the neighbor didn’t notice his hands he kept applying lotion to them.

His alibi, the two fans, not helping police, the rental car and now this. How could he have drawn more attention to his guilt? If Susan turns up alive after the holidays with some crazy story to tell the talk shows we’ll know it’s been a hoax.

I know it’s a long shot. But it is hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as Josh is acting.”

Although I think this is an unlikely scenario it is one that I can’t completely shake. Josh (and maybe Daddy) dream this up and get Susan to go along. Instead of camping Josh drives Susan to meet his brother/father who drives Susan up to the Powell’s in Washington. Everything is staged to make Josh look as guilty as possible. Eventually Susan turns up in some random town telling LE she has just been released by her kidnapper. After Susan turns up everyone will be sympathetic to Josh and his family for accusing him. He can go on talk shows as the poor man who lost his job and was driven from his home by the false accusations of neighbors, press etc. Susan can talk about her time in captivity. Of course when she turns up she will have no useful information to help police locate her “captures”.

Again, I don not think this likely. It just keeps popping up in the back of my mind and I wanted to see what you guys thought.

There are aspects that fit. Like Kiirsi saying she got a message that led her to believe Susan was alive and in another state. Susan could have seen how hard her friend was taking this and got a message to her that she was alive without exposing all the details. It also fits with how LE is acting. They seem like the cat that swallowed the canary. They imply they know what happened but aren’t too concerned about locating a body.

The biggest problem with this theory is that Susan couldn’t possibly put her parents through this. She would have told them by now and her father doesn’t seem like the type to go along with something like this. However, he isn’t on camera pleading for help finding his daughter like most missing parents are.

I’m going to say it one more time. This is in no way the scenario I think most likely. Please don’t tell me how crazy I am. I’m 99.9% sure Josh murdered Susan and besides I already know I’m crazy.

I got to reading it and thought yep maybe. But what rules it out totally for me is Susans mom was/is really sick. She would have never done this to her or dad or children. Nope, no way.

diphi
01-13-2010, 12:53 AM
I got to reading it and thought yep maybe. But what rules it out totally for me is Susans mom was/is really sick. She would have never done this to her or dad or children. Nope, no way.

What is her illness? Would it affect custody?

impatientredhead
01-13-2010, 12:55 AM
Go back and read my statement and then read what you said I wrote in black and white. They are two entirely different things.

The police did not tell Haleigh Cummings family they had to get permission or that they could not search for Haleigh. They might have suggested they don't search for her but the police could not stop them.

The police have nothing to do with private property, you have to get permission for that from the landowners which most of the land in Utah is federal land where you do not need permission from a landowner.

The police can not tell people they can't search an area simply because it is dangerous. Otherwise 90 percent of the stuff Utahans do for fun would be illegal.

And my last three posts have said that I do not see LE restraining some group of searchers and preventing them from doing anything. I saw a request from the family that you work with LE if you are going out.

My post was in reference to the idea that LE should be organizing, directing, and suggesting areas of interest to the general public.

I haven't seen LE instruct anyone to stay home. I have seen a request from the family, the people that this would be supposedly helping, I have seen them request that you check in with LE and work within their wishes.

This entire conversation is completely circular at this point though. I just find the criticism of LE to unwarranted at this point. YMMV. If I felt that strongly about the lack of searches I would work on organizing a group.

Doctorwoof
01-13-2010, 12:59 AM
I imagine Josh’s lawyer was very happy to see all the people helping him move. If and when this case comes to trial I’m sure the prosecution is going to try to enter Josh’s moving so soon after Susan’s disappearance into evidence(Ala Scott Peterson). If they do it will give the defense the opportunity to show how their friends and neighbors rallied behind Josh. The implication being that the people who were closest to them must be on Josh’s side.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:59 AM
What is her illness? Would it affect custody?

I am not sure, it was mentioned in an early article about her dad coming to utah and her mom had to stay home because she was to ill to travel.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 01:02 AM
It is very possible Josh made a unilateral and secretive decision, but I just want to say, I don't support it one bit.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 01:02 AM
And my last three posts have said that I do not see LE restraining some group of searchers and preventing them from doing anything. I saw a request from the family that you work with LE if you are going out.

My post was in reference to the idea that LE should be organizing, directing, and suggesting areas of interest to the general public.

I haven't seen LE instruct anyone to stay home. I have seen a request from the family, the people that this would be supposedly helping, I have seen them request that you check in with LE and work within their wishes.

This entire conversation is completely circular at this point though. I just find the criticism of LE to unwarranted at this point. YMMV. If I felt that strongly about the lack of searches I would work on organizing a group.

All I saw was your post saying I said stuff I never did.

Doctorwoof
01-13-2010, 01:03 AM
I got to reading it and thought yep maybe. But what rules it out totally for me is Susans mom was/is really sick. She would have never done this to her or dad or children. Nope, no way.

I agree on the mom part but in this scenerio Susan's children where taken up to her just a short time after she went missing and would be with her now.

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 01:05 AM
[QUOTE=Doctorwoof;4672093]As for Susan being kidnapped and deprogrammed I highly doubt it. There is another possible scenario where she is still alive. Here is a post that I made on SL Tribune board back on 12/23/09.

“You would need the analytical skills of an O.J. Simpson juror not to conclude that Josh is guilty. In fact he is acting so guilty that I began to wonder if this could be a Balloon Boy type hoax. He drives hundreds of miles with a rental then goes to neighbor to take him to pick up his van with “severely wind burned hands”. Just in case the neighbor didn’t notice his hands he kept applying lotion to them.

His alibi, the two fans, not helping police, the rental car and now this. How could he have drawn more attention to his guilt? If Susan turns up alive after the holidays with some crazy story to tell the talk shows we’ll know it’s been a hoax.

I know it’s a long shot. But it is hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as Josh is acting.”

This is an interesting take, and the only one that any could conceive of JP being not guilty. However, I think there's a chance of this being about as true as Mr. Heine just stated that it was NOT a hoax on LK.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 01:13 AM
I imagine Josh’s lawyer was very happy to see all the people helping him move. If and when this case comes to trial I’m sure the prosecution is going to try to enter Josh’s moving so soon after Susan’s disappearance into evidence(Ala Scott Peterson). If they do it will give the defense the opportunity to show how their friends and neighbors rallied behind Josh. The implication being that the people who were closest to them must be on Josh’s side.

Yes, but if the State has enough evidence to prove he did kill Susan when it comes to trail, I think it will only make jurors more sympathic for her family. It might even reveal what a narcissistic, selfish taker Josh is, and how cunning he was to get these people in his corner helping him, but not looking for Susan. Most people expect the husband to beg people to help search, not to relocate a month later with everyone's cheerful help.

DomCasual
01-13-2010, 01:14 AM
All I'm gonna say is.....wow. :waitasec:

Yep.:waitasec:

DomCasual
01-13-2010, 01:17 AM
En pointe Bartle. My exact sentiments. There are sooo many typos throughout. What, no editing? Or was that done by JP? Initial thing that caught me was in first paragraph in the "about Steve" section was the term:

unilateral and secretive decision (for Mom)

then...
unilateral and secretive decision (for Dad)

This was used twice on same page, not to mention first page. Thought in the beginning: this guy has a fairly good vocabulary. Then 2 times, and no one caught it? Who's the bigger fool here, the "musician," or Polished Marketing?

I've made a unilateral and secretive decision that the song "Sing Softly Wood" almost made me throw up in my mouth a little.

I'm just saying.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 01:23 AM
I've made a unilateral and secretive decision that the song "Sing Softly Wood" almost made me throw up in my mouth a little.

I'm just saying.


Are you saying you don't think his career is going to take off? :rolleyes:

DomCasual
01-13-2010, 01:24 AM
Are you saying you don't think his career is going to take off? :rolleyes:

Well, he's no William Hung, that's for sure!

Fairy1
01-13-2010, 01:26 AM
But, what if no one else is willing to search? It becomes a risk issue - the risk that an unprofessional/family person finds her vs the risk that no one finds her because no one is looking. I don't know - what would you do?

Personally - I would search - wouldn't be able to stop myself! But - I belong to WS so I would KNOW that there is so much more to it than finding the person I'm looking for.

DomCasual
01-13-2010, 01:28 AM
This is a little creepy - especially at the end.

No wonder he has three adult children living at his house. Yow.

You Were My First Love

Words and Music by Steve Chantrey

You were waiting when I first awakened,
And although I must have felt forsaken,
You were there, My Dear Mother.
You were my first love.

I could hear your voice before I knew you,
Your heartbeat was calming to me through you.
I heard you, My Dear Mother,
You were my first love.

Your sweet lullaby,
My first music,
Swept away all darkness and all fear.
We would rock-a-bye,
You would soothe me,
And I knew I was your little dear.

Your eyes were the first that I looked into
Filled with love in spite of what you'd been through.
I felt loved, My Dear Mother.
You were my first love.

Other loves have lived within my heart,
Where they've shared my life and played a part.
It was you who loved me from the start:
You were my first love.
You were my first love.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 01:32 AM
Well, he's no William Hung, that's for sure!

LOL, yeah, and William Hung dances and has those hand motions going for him.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 01:36 AM
I will spare you all a reposting the song lyrics. Yes, DomCasual, that is kind of a creepy song, but it might make a good Mothers Day card.

Fairy1
01-13-2010, 01:39 AM
No More Mormon Bashing.

The reason Elizabeth Smart's case was a big deal and the Mormon Church became involved is because of ED SMART ORGANIZING it along with his family.

Also these are two totally different cases.

If it did any good to argue religion I would say go for it but it does nothing but get everyone angry and disagreeable.

Thank you for understanding.

Tricia

Tricia,

With all due respect, it's not my intention to "bash" Mormons, in general. We have a large Mormon population in Las Vegas - and I was raised with many Mormon kids - to the point where I very nearly converted myself. You will NEVER, EVER find a bigger Osmond family fan than I...you have no idea!!!

I'm speaking from my own PERSONAL experience. I, personally, have not seen woman in the Church of the LDS treated exceptionally well - particularly when they were in a difficult marriage. That's just MY own personal experience.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 01:48 AM
Here’s the lowdown on the physical search: Chuck Cox, Susan’s father, has said that if anyone wants to do their own search, you must contact the West Valley PD. Get their permission and register a record of where in the wilderness you want to search and then report back to them after you’re done.

So does everyone think that was just a mistake and Kiirsi should have never put the permission part in there? The sentence before it she says you must contact the police.


http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/

Doctorwoof
01-13-2010, 01:49 AM
Are you saying you don't think his career is going to take off? :rolleyes:

The only way he could make money off that music is to market it as a diet plan. Just listen to his music while trying to eat any meal and you’re guaranteed to lose weight.

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 01:52 AM
Here’s the lowdown on the physical search: Chuck Cox, Susan’s father, has said that if anyone wants to do their own search, you must contact the West Valley PD. Get their permission and register a record of where in the wilderness you want to search and then report back to them after you’re done.

So does everyone think that was just a mistake and Kiirsi should have never put the permission part in there? The sentence before it she says you must contact the police.


http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/

Thanks Dr. F, that is good news. Am not understanding why you are the hare here. :waitasec:

kiki the parrot
01-13-2010, 02:02 AM
http://chantrey.polishedmarketing.com/Pages/About/MeetSteve.aspx

Did you read about how his father left them and took the kids to grandparents house and mom didn't know they had moved!!!! Did I read this right???
Please someone that knows how to photo this for keeps........I have a feeling it all will disappear soon..............yikes.......go read!!

Whoa... I know I'm in Bizarroworld now. :eek: I see it's the same PMktg and it would seem to fit in an eerie pathological kinda way but is there anything which can really confirm that this is JP's dad--and not simply SC? Unfortunately there's nothing even about children eg in the bio part IIRC. Weird, like stuck in a time warp as if nothing's happened more recently--like in the past 40+ years or so...?! Talk about self-absorbed, eeesh :sheesh:

:parrot:

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 02:03 AM
Here’s the lowdown on the physical search: Chuck Cox, Susan’s father, has said that if anyone wants to do their own search, you must contact the West Valley PD. Get their permission and register a record of where in the wilderness you want to search and then report back to them after you’re done.

So does everyone think that was just a mistake and Kiirsi should have never put the permission part in there? The sentence before it she says you must contact the police.


http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/

Did she get the WVPD to approve that statement before deeming it a must?

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 02:05 AM
Whoa... I know I'm in Bizarroworld now. :eek: I see it's the same PMktg and it would seem to fit in an eerie pathological kinda way but is there anything which can really help confirm that this is JP's dad--and not simply SC? Unfortunately there's nothing even about children eg in the bio part IIRC. Weird, like stuck in a time warp as if nothing's happened more recently (like in the past 40+ years or so...) Talk about self-absorbed, eeesh :sheesh:

:parrot:

Kiki, um....just take a good gander seriously? they could be twins in about 6 months given Josh's aging

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 02:05 AM
Go back and read my statement and then read what you said I wrote in black and white. They are two entirely different things.

The police did not tell Haleigh Cummings family they had to get permission or that they could not search for Haleigh. They might have suggested they don't search for her but the police could not stop them.

The police have nothing to do with private property, you have to get permission for that from the landowners which most of the land in Utah is federal land where you do not need permission from a landowner.

The police can not tell people they can't search an area simply because it is dangerous. Otherwise 90 percent of the stuff Utahans do for fun would be illegal.

BBM. That's not true. Much of that land is BLM and is leased to ranchers and agriculture industries. In the past few years it's become even more so. Ask anyone out here who rides a 4 wheel drive, hunts, rides horses and shoots targets about how many places they can't go to anymore. Just about everyone in Utah has a story about wandering where they weren't supposed to go. I had an unpleasant experience driving into a popular 4 wheeling place near Five Mile Pass that was being leased to ranchers.

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 02:09 AM
BBM. That's not true. Much of that land is BLM and is leased to ranchers and agriculture industries. In the past few years it's become even more so. Ask anyone out here who rides a 4 wheel drive, hunts, rides horses and shoots targets about how many places they can't go to anymore. Just about everyone in Utah has a story about wandering where they weren't supposed to go. I had an unpleasant experience driving into a popular 4 wheeling place near Five Mile Pass that was being leased to ranchers.

Then ALL the more reason that every rancher search their individual ranch. They are on the land every day, is that so hard?

kiki the parrot
01-13-2010, 02:18 AM
I really don't know the answer to why the cops want people to check in with them, but common sense tells me it might be for two reasons:

1. to prevent people from getting hurt, lost, etc. and causing more harm than good, and
2. to prevent people looking in the same places over and over. If everybody checks in, they can tell you if that spot has been looked over yet. More ground can be covered if everybody looks in a different place.

What if people did find the remains and then picked them up and carried them to their truck and drove them to the police station? You and I might know how wrong that is, but would everyone? How about if everyone checks with the police before they go so at the very least the police can remind them that if they find anything at all, just leave it alone and call police right away.

Yes... I'm thinking beyond searcher's safety they probably also want to know in advance where a layperson plans to search for investigative purposes. If they have been notified ahead that a particular person is planning to search in a specified location at a given time, the idea anyway might be that it eliminates the questions involved should LE discover the person in the vicinity of the body--ie whether they were just happening upon the body, or had foreknowledge. Ie if I'm the perp who wants to revisit the body, I'm not very likely to inform LE ahead--and if LE catches me all I can do is shuffle my feet and say, "well, lookie here... if it isn't a body!"

:parrot:

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 02:21 AM
BBM. That's not true. Much of that land is BLM and is leased to ranchers and agriculture industries. In the past few years it's become even more so. Ask anyone out here who rides a 4 wheel drive, hunts, rides horses and shoots targets about how many places they can't go to anymore. Just about everyone in Utah has a story about wandering where they weren't supposed to go. I had an unpleasant experience driving into a popular 4 wheeling place near Five Mile Pass that was being leased to ranchers.

BLM land is federal land and there are 29 million acres of it in Utah and 5 million acres of it leased. That leaves 24 million acres you don't have to ask to go on.

Doctorwoof
01-13-2010, 02:24 AM
Based on the time of night, weather, type of vehicle he drove and that he had two young children with him, Susan’s body will not be far from an easily accessible area.

He also probably wouldn’t have chanced driving very far and I can’t imagine he would travel on roads he wasn’t familiar with at night and in those conditions.

It would be a big help if a friend of theirs knew of areas where Josh had been before. Search those areas first.

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 02:32 AM
Tricia,

With all due respect, it's not my intention to "bash" Mormons, in general. We have a large Mormon population in Las Vegas - and I was raised with many Mormon kids - to the point where I very nearly converted myself. You will NEVER, EVER find a bigger Osmond family fan than I...you have no idea!!!

I'm speaking from my own PERSONAL experience. I, personally, have not seen woman in the Church of the LDS treated exceptionally well - particularly when they were in a difficult marriage. That's just MY own personal experience.

It's interesting how people can view things so differently. I'm thinking of all the married LDS women I know and I can tell you most wear the pants in their family. There are more than a few husbands I feel sorry for. They have wives that demand the big house, the new car, the entire package and make their husbands work several jobs to support that. Maybe it's different while a man and woman are standing inside a Wardhouse or Temple. But in day to day life, in the real world I see no more gender bias in LDS marriages than I do in the general population. I see how the good and the bad of the LDS church affects both sexes equally.

People keep talking about Susan's love for her church and Josh's opposing feelings about it causing problems in their marriage. I wouldn't doubt that. Couples of all faiths, races and sexual orientation break up all the time because one person is at a different place in the relationship than the other person is. I don't get why this always has to be brought back to the religion thing.

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 02:39 AM
BLM land is federal land and there are 29 million acres of it in Utah and 5 million acres of it leased. That leaves 24 million acres you don't have to ask to go on.

There is more BLM land that is restricted than just the leased properties. And unless I'm a mind reader, which of the 5 out of 29 million acres would I know is currently being leased? The leases change all the time. I have no need to want to wander around and get confronted by an angry ranch hand again. Come to think of it, maybe that's a good reason to check in with LE before going out willy nilly?

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 02:42 AM
From the song stylings of Steve Chantrey/SP...

I Said, I Love You

snipped

I said, "I love you." Is that a crime?
And what if I say it to you one more time?
I love you, so put me in jail.
I said, "I love you." I couldn't help it.
And you were mistaken if you thought I'd shelf it.
I love you, so cough up my bail.

is this a love song?

kiki the parrot
01-13-2010, 02:48 AM
Kiki, um....just take a good gander seriously? they could be twins in about 6 months given Josh's aging

Ok guess you're right. I'm not always good at spotting familial resemblance... but I could spot JP in his youngest son in an instant. Frankly I've been focusing more on comparing w man in red coat who enters Powell home after interview on porch but whom we only saw briefly from rear and side--definitely could be! Certainly wasn't anyone else we've seen around JP.

All the songs sound the same musically--and not in a good way! Some of these lyrics are just painful they're so bad... with an obsessing, or desperate quality. Something is terribly off... delusions of granduer? Extremely uncomfortable to listen to omg :/

I Said I Love You
I said, "I love you." Is that a crime?
And what if I say it to you one more time?
I love you, so put me in jail.
I said, "I love you." I couldn't help it.
And you were mistaken if you thought I'd shelf it.
I love you, so cough up my bail.

You made my eyes pop out of their sockets.
You could empty all my pockets.
This flirtation isn't rocket science.
You came along and really knocked my socks off.
Now you're all I think and talk of.
So much for my former self-reliance....

It seems like all I do is take a beating,
But giving up is self-defeating.


I could be in heaven or in hell,
It doesn't matter, I'd be well
If I could only know that I'd be there with you

:parrot:

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 02:49 AM
Then ALL the more reason that every rancher search their individual ranch. They are on the land every day, is that so hard?

Yes it would be hard. We are talking sometimes tens of thousands of square acres of land. During winter even the ranchers stay on the roads for the most part. If there are fences they check the fence lines. Ranchers don't babysit their cattle. It would be impossible to do so and I can't imagine the cost. They round up their cattle and seperate them by brand and do a head count. And they do not do that in the winter. Now when the cowboys go out there this spring to see what the damage the winter did to their stock, they might come across something.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 02:50 AM
There is more BLM land that is restricted than just the leased properties. And unless I'm a mind reader, which of the 5 out of 29 million acres would I know is currently being leased? The leases change all the time. I have no need to want to wander around and get confronted by an angry ranch hand again. Come to think of it, maybe that's a good reason to check in with LE before going out willy nilly?

I never said it wasn't a good idea to check in with the police. I just said you don't have to ask their permission to search.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 02:51 AM
Yes it would be hard. We are talking sometimes tens of thousands of square acres of land. During winter even the ranchers stay on the roads for the most part. If there are fences they check the fence lines. Ranchers don't babysit their cattle. It would be impossible to do so and I can't imagine the cost. They round up their cattle and seperate them by brand and do a head count. And they do not do that in the winter. Now when the cowboys go out there this spring to see what the damage the winter did to their stock, they might come across something.

I think there is a very good chance that is right where Susan is. Along some road in a ditch.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 02:53 AM
Ok guess you're right. I'm not always good at spotting familial resemblance... but I could spot JP in his youngest son in an instant. Frankly I've been focusing more on comparing w man in red coat who enters Powell home after interview on porch but whom we only saw briefly from rear and side--definitely could be! Certainly wasn't anyone else we've seen around JP.

All the songs sound the same musically--and not in a good way! Some of these lyrics are just painful they're so bad... with an obsessing, or desperate quality. Something is terribly off... delusions of granduer? Extremely uncomfortable to listen to omg :/

I Said I Love You
I said, "I love you." Is that a crime?
And what if I say it to you one more time?
I love you, so put me in jail.
I said, "I love you." I couldn't help it.
And you were mistaken if you thought I'd shelf it.
I love you, so cough up my bail.

You made my eyes pop out of their sockets.
You could empty all my pockets.
This flirtation isn't rocket science.
You came along and really knocked my socks off.
Now you're all I think and talk of.
So much for my former self-reliance.

I said, "I love you." Can you forgive
If I can't find another way to live?
I love you, and that is my sin.
I said, "I love you." I think you knew it,
But I got hasty and I think I blew it.
I love you. Can we try again?

It seems like all I do is take a beating,
But giving up is self-defeating.


I could be in heaven or in hell,
It doesn't matter, I'd be well
If I could only know that I'd be there with you

:parrot:

That one bothers me.

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 02:57 AM
Good gawd those song lyrics are going to give me nightmares.

kiki the parrot
01-13-2010, 03:00 AM
ROFL Lemon I see now you and I have the same musical taste... :crazy: LOL

:parrot:

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 03:02 AM
[QUOTE=Doctorwoof;4672093]As for Susan being kidnapped and deprogrammed I highly doubt it. There is another possible scenario where she is still alive. Here is a post that I made on SL Tribune board back on 12/23/09.

“You would need the analytical skills of an O.J. Simpson juror not to conclude that Josh is guilty. In fact he is acting so guilty that I began to wonder if this could be a Balloon Boy type hoax. He drives hundreds of miles with a rental then goes to neighbor to take him to pick up his van with “severely wind burned hands”. Just in case the neighbor didn’t notice his hands he kept applying lotion to them.

His alibi, the two fans, not helping police, the rental car and now this. How could he have drawn more attention to his guilt? If Susan turns up alive after the holidays with some crazy story to tell the talk shows we’ll know it’s been a hoax.

I know it’s a long shot. But it is hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as Josh is acting.”

This is an interesting take, and the only one that any could conceive of JP being not guilty. However, I think there's a chance of this being about as true as Mr. Heine just stated that it was NOT a hoax on LK.

Picking up from the initial post concerning Josh making himself look guilty may I add the generator story and now the relocation in a NY minute. No, it's not a hoax, but his stupidity in the art of planning and alibi will sure go down in history.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 03:11 AM
Why do I hear that song this way? Please forgive me, maybe it's snarky.

"I said I love you!" (slap, slap)
"You B*!@h, I said I love you!" (slap)
"Now get me out of jail!"
"Or else . . ."

PercyVeer
01-13-2010, 03:16 AM
I can spell obsession. Some loser sees a knockout chick and pulls the ILY card. That is what I see in these ah-hem "lyrics." Well, No one's going to heaven or hew with me, they gotta get it on their own ! Back off, wacko. Whew, Susan sure needed support in this situation, IMO.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 03:25 AM
I can spell obsession. Some loser sees a knockout chick and pulls the ILY card. That is what I see in these ah-hem "lyrics." Well, No one's going to heaven or hew with me, they gotta get it on their own ! Back off, wacko. Whew, Susan sure needed support in this situation, IMO.

Welcome PercyVeer. I find comfort in believing Susan may have had Josh's sister, and maybe his Mom to talk to. They'd probably understand what she was going through. They say Josh talked to his Dad super often, and he must have had a big influence of the wrong kind.

PercyVeer
01-13-2010, 03:30 AM
Welcome PercyVeer. I find comfort in believing Susan may have had Josh's sister, and maybe his Mom to talk to. They'd probably understand what she was going through. They say Josh talked to his Dad super often, and he must have had a big influence of the wrong kind.

Thank You for the Welome !:angel:

I can see that. I sure hope they gave her love. I wonder about co-workers, she seemed to feel safe there, maybe got love there too. I hope I do not weep too hard when I hear the details of what really went on with this lovely lady Susan, and her boys.

Curious Me
01-13-2010, 04:03 AM
Thank You for the Welome !:angel:

I can see that. I sure hope they gave her love. I wonder about co-workers, she seemed to feel safe there, maybe got love there too. I hope I do not weep too hard when I hear the details of what really went on with this lovely lady Susan, and her boys.

Last year another case really upset me (Chris Coleman), and now this one is tearing me up. The way I see it, Susan did not deserve what she was going through for a long time, just to give Josh a fair chance to come through on his promises.

He must have let his mask slip and made some threatening remarks, if the journal entries are a truth, but she probably didn't sense how dangerous it'd be if he felt he was losing control of her. He must've become unhinged finding out she really was going to give up on the marriage that was making her so unhappy. I know, you look at photos of Susan and you can just tell you'd love her as a friend. Good mother to two kids who most likely now have no mother.

We all need to take care of ourselves when on these cases. Don't get too down. Stay strong. I'm going to follow my own advice, and go to bed for a good restful sleep.

PercyVeer
01-13-2010, 04:14 AM
Time for sleep here, too. I never really get down, so if you ever need help, I will answer . Have a great nite !

Karen Anne RN
01-13-2010, 04:40 AM
Thanks, I wish I knew more about saving and screenshots........I have tried and failed....the minute they know we know it will disappear!

Really, all you have to do is left click on the page, then press the CTRL key and the A key, then press the CTRL key and the C key, then open up a blank email form, click in the body of the email form, press the CTRL key and the V key, and email it to yourself.

Also works with right click, Select All, right click, Copy, open email, left click in body of email form, right click, click on Paste. :)

Karen Anne RN
01-13-2010, 05:11 AM
Kiirsi saying she got a message that led her to believe Susan was alive and in another state.

~~~respectfully snipped~~~

This is the first time I've heard this. Anyone have a link to the original source ?

Thanks :)

Karen Anne RN
01-13-2010, 05:18 AM
Yes, but if the State has enough evidence to prove he did kill Susan when it comes to trail, I think it will only make jurors more sympathic for her family. It might even reveal what a narcissistic, selfish taker Josh is, and how cunning he was to get these people in his corner helping him, but not looking for Susan. Most people expect the husband to beg people to help search, not to relocate a month later with everyone's cheerful help.

Much less remove his wedding band. In video of him moving, he is no longer wearing it.

Guess he's moved on.

Smores anyone ?? :furious:

badhorsie
01-13-2010, 06:29 AM
Curious me, I totally agree with you, I was very upset about the Elizabeth O case and now this one. They drag you down and you feel so frustrated.
People should take care of themselves when reading and contributing here
:twocents:

poco
01-13-2010, 06:51 AM
Hang in there guys, they'll eventually nab his sorry arse.

GrandmaTo4
01-13-2010, 09:04 AM
Very good post.

Thank you, Dr.Fessel.

I'm so tired of reading the lame reasons and illogical excuses about why no one is searching for Susan.

It makes no sense that Susan rates only a couple of Internet Sites displaying her photos and requesting prayers -- while 20 plus ward friends put their own lives on hold to expend their energy to pack, sort, carry and load a U-Haul truck so Susan's suspected murderer could more easily flee 800 miles to the safety of his daddy's gated community.

High energy and extended physical efforts find missing persons. Purple ribbons do not!

Not only are there no LDS members with boots on the ground looking for Susan, there isn't even a single rose left on Susan's doorstep.

I live within 15 miles of Laci Peterson's former home. Within HOURS of the announcement of Laci being missing, there were hundreds of people out in the cold rain on Christmas Day, searching the parks, rivers, swamps, woods and anywhere else they could think of.

Professional AND citizen searching began immediately and continued for months. We didn't know where to search either -- but we still searched!

Laci's front yard became a hopeful shrine of good wishes and prayers -- including rows and rows of hand written messages, stuffed animals, beautiful flowers and plants.

Eventually, in April, what was left of Laci was found on the San Francisco Bay rocky shoreline by a resident dog walker.

Where is Utah's angst - agony - OUTRAGE? _ Where is ANY emotion of urgency to locate your kind, loving, Salt Lake City mother?

Is there that much difference between Northern California residents and Utah residents?

I'll take California's caring residents of notorious *fruits and nuts* any day over Utah's stoic DO-NOTHINGS!

Shame on Utah! Shame on Susan's church family which encompassed her entire being!

It's long overdue that Susan's smiling Internet photos and posted flyers be replaced by photos of Josh - his personal van - and his rental van.

It's long, long overdue that Utah residents get off their butts in front of their computers, and physically search for Susan!

in my humble opinion

Searchfortruth
01-13-2010, 09:25 AM
I have been following this case on the news, but have not read many of the threads here yet. This question may have been asked before, IDK. Most new cars come with computer ships in them where it is possible for LE to trace movements. I don't know much about this technology, but have heard about it. Would the car that Josh was driving have such a chip and has this been brought up in the news ?

One more question (probably asked before) have any search groups, like TES and others, been asked to participate in looking for Susan ?

Heatherly30
01-13-2010, 09:55 AM
As for Susan being kidnapped and deprogrammed I highly doubt it. There is another possible scenario where she is still alive. Here is a post that I made on SL Tribune board back on 12/23/09.

“You would need the analytical skills of an O.J. Simpson juror not to conclude that Josh is guilty. In fact he is acting so guilty that I began to wonder if this could be a Balloon Boy type hoax. He drives hundreds of miles with a rental then goes to neighbor to take him to pick up his van with “severely wind burned hands”. Just in case the neighbor didn’t notice his hands he kept applying lotion to them.

His alibi, the two fans, not helping police, the rental car and now this. How could he have drawn more attention to his guilt? If Susan turns up alive after the holidays with some crazy story to tell the talk shows we’ll know it’s been a hoax.

I know it’s a long shot. But it is hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as Josh is acting.”

Although I think this is an unlikely scenario it is one that I can’t completely shake. Josh (and maybe Daddy) dream this up and get Susan to go along. Instead of camping Josh drives Susan to meet his brother/father who drives Susan up to the Powell’s in Washington. Everything is staged to make Josh look as guilty as possible. Eventually Susan turns up in some random town telling LE she has just been released by her kidnapper. After Susan turns up everyone will be sympathetic to Josh and his family for accusing him. He can go on talk shows as the poor man who lost his job and was driven from his home by the false accusations of neighbors, press etc. Susan can talk about her time in captivity. Of course when she turns up she will have no useful information to help police locate her “captures”.

Again, I don not think this likely. It just keeps popping up in the back of my mind and I wanted to see what you guys thought.

There are aspects that fit. Like Kiirsi saying she got a message that led her to believe Susan was alive and in another state. Susan could have seen how hard her friend was taking this and got a message to her that she was alive without exposing all the details. It also fits with how LE is acting. They seem like the cat that swallowed the canary. They imply they know what happened but aren’t too concerned about locating a body.

The biggest problem with this theory is that Susan couldn’t possibly put her parents through this. She would have told them by now and her father doesn’t seem like the type to go along with something like this. However, he isn’t on camera pleading for help finding his daughter like most missing parents are.

I’m going to say it one more time. This is in no way the scenario I think most likely. Please don’t tell me how crazy I am. I’m 99.9% sure Josh murdered Susan and besides I already know I’m crazy.

I agree that this scenario is highly unlikely, but based on the two character we're dealing with, JP and SC, oh I mean SP, it might be possible. But why does Susan have to "be in on it?" I think it's possible JP and SP dreamed up this game and are making Susan play along, threatening her if she doesn't play just like they want her to. Of course she wouldn't put her parents through this, but JP and SP would. There's no telling where they could have her and in what conditions she is living. SP in his demented mind might have another friend or family member in on it. Again, I agree that this is highly unlikely, but after learning more about SP, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. We probably can't even imagine some things this guy could dream up, that's evident in the lyrics of his melodious music. (Really, he might have a future with this on American Idol...:eek:

TallCoolOne
01-13-2010, 10:02 AM
Hang in there guys, they'll eventually nab his sorry arse.That's what I keep telling myself also. LE knows much more than we do. Unfortunately these things NEVER move as fast as we wish they would. You can always tell too when people are getting anxious for news, things begin to get a little 'testy' sometimes.

We just all need to remember that we are all here for the same purpose.

~TCO~ Keeping the faith........

passionflower
01-13-2010, 10:02 AM
Much less remove his wedding band. In video of him moving, he is no longer wearing it.

Guess he's moved on.

Smores anyone ?? :furious:

Great observation!
Then he has already moved on in his brain!

and like father like son it seems............:loser:
so what does dad do?
Seriously he can't be making a living from this music.............

Heatherly30
01-13-2010, 10:05 AM
Great observation!
Then he has already moved on in his brain!

and like father like son it seems............:loser:
so what does dad do?
Seriously he can't be making a living from this music.............

Doesn't appear that he has a great fan base on myspace...

http://www.myspace.com/stevechantrey

TallCoolOne
01-13-2010, 10:06 AM
Great observation!
Then he has already moved on in his brain!

and like father like son it seems............:loser:
so what does dad do?
Seriously he can't be making a living from this music.............Well, I'd probably pay him to stop..........

RayO
01-13-2010, 10:13 AM
Yes it would be hard. We are talking sometimes tens of thousands of square acres of land. During winter even the ranchers stay on the roads for the most part. If there are fences they check the fence lines. Ranchers don't babysit their cattle. It would be impossible to do so and I can't imagine the cost. They round up their cattle and seperate them by brand and do a head count. And they do not do that in the winter. Now when the cowboys go out there this spring to see what the damage the winter did to their stock, they might come across something.

Yes, and we're talking about land that is semi-arid and much of it only has useful forage for a few months out of the year. So they'd keep the animals they have in a small area this time of year where they could keep track and bring food if necessary.

RayO
01-13-2010, 10:24 AM
People keep talking about Susan's love for her church and Josh's opposing feelings about it causing problems in their marriage. I wouldn't doubt that. Couples of all faiths, races and sexual orientation break up all the time because one person is at a different place in the relationship than the other person is. I don't get why this always has to be brought back to the religion thing.

Because it was specifically mentioned in one of the news articles as part of their marital disagreement. It was mentioned (by the neighbor) that a goal of Susan was to have Josh get a "temple recommend", which is where his bishop (most churches call this person the pastor) formally states, with a written record, and after a personal interview, that Josh is in compliance with the rules and expectations of the LDS church. I interpret that as a "demand on Josh" rather than a "goal for Susan" since he is the one who would have to comply. No other bones of contention were mentioned, specifically, but who knows for sure?

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 10:31 AM
Because it was specifically mentioned in one of the news articles as part of their marital disagreement. It was mentioned (by the neighbor) that a goal of Susan was to have Josh get a "temple recommend", which is where his bishop (most churches call this person the pastor) formally states, with a written record, and after a personal interview, that Josh is in compliance with the rules and expectations of the LDS church. I interpret that as a "demand on Josh" rather than a "goal for Susan" since he is the one who would have to comply. No other bones of contention were mentioned, specifically, but who knows for sure?

Yes, but some seem to believe that a couple's differences in religion is just an LDS thing. When really differences like this happen in alot of religions.

SuziQ
01-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Yes, and we're talking about land that is semi-arid and much of it only has useful forage for a few months out of the year. So they'd keep the animals they have in a small area this time of year where they could keep track and bring food if necessary.

Exactly, they would not be covering their entire acreage during winter months.

wyome
01-13-2010, 10:33 AM
Doesn't appear that he has a great fan base on myspace...

http://www.myspace.com/stevechantrey


I think that Tom guy is friends with Zenaida Gonzales as well.

AmandaReckonwith
01-13-2010, 10:54 AM
Steven Powell aka Steve Chantrey is now a sub-album of the Susan page:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Powell/Interesting%20People/

sniperacer
01-13-2010, 11:07 AM
En pointe Bartle. My exact sentiments. There are sooo many typos throughout. What, no editing? Or was that done by JP? Initial thing that caught me was in first paragraph in the "about Steve" section was the term:

unilateral and secretive decision (for Mom)

then...
unilateral and secretive decision (for Dad)

This was used twice on same page, not to mention first page. Thought in the beginning: this guy has a fairly good vocabulary. Then 2 times, and no one caught it? Who's the bigger fool here, the "musician," or Polished Marketing?

Spelling and grammar aside, I think the important point is Josh grew up with dysfunctional parents / family. Mom split with the children. Years later, Dad split with the children. We have no idea why either split? We do know after a long divorce, SP got custody of the children, but do not know why.

Josh's parents were not much of an example of a marriage relationship. Red flag? Sadly, with a divorce / single parent rate of 40%, he is not alone.

dini1976
01-13-2010, 11:40 AM
:laugh:I think that Tom guy is friends with Zenaida Gonzales as well.

:woohoo: HAHAHA!

dini1976
01-13-2010, 11:43 AM
Thank you, Dr.Fessel.

I'm so tired of reading the lame reasons and illogical excuses about why no one is searching for Susan.

It makes no sense that Susan rates only a couple of Internet Sites displaying her photos and requesting prayers -- while 20 plus ward friends put their own lives on hold to expend their energy to pack, sort, carry and load a U-Haul truck so Susan's suspected murderer could more easily flee 800 miles to the safety of his daddy's gated community.

High energy and extended physical efforts find missing persons. Purple ribbons do not!

Not only are there no LDS members with boots on the ground looking for Susan, there isn't even a single rose left on Susan's doorstep.

I live within 15 miles of Laci Peterson's former home. Within HOURS of the announcement of Laci being missing, there were hundreds of people out in the cold rain on Christmas Day, searching the parks, rivers, swamps, woods and anywhere else they could think of.

Professional AND citizen searching began immediately and continued for months. We didn't know where to search either -- but we still searched!

Laci's front yard became a hopeful shrine of good wishes and prayers -- including rows and rows of hand written messages, stuffed animals, beautiful flowers and plants.

Eventually, in April, what was left of Laci was found on the San Francisco Bay rocky shoreline by a resident dog walker.

Where is Utah's angst - agony - OUTRAGE? _ Where is ANY emotion of urgency to locate your kind, loving, Salt Lake City mother?

Is there that much difference between Northern California residents and Utah residents?

I'll take California's caring residents of notorious *fruits and nuts* any day over Utah's stoic DO-NOTHINGS!

Shame on Utah! Shame on Susan's church family which encompassed her entire being!

It's long overdue that Susan's smiling Internet photos and posted flyers be replaced by photos of Josh - his personal van - and his rental van.

It's long, long overdue that Utah residents get off their butts in front of their computers, and physically search for Susan!

in my humble opinion


I agree with you, and I am sure we're all thinking the same thing!
It's too bad these utah residents aren't massing together to try and do something. I know the snow level is high, but come on try some searching!!

lemonmoussetart
01-13-2010, 12:01 PM
Will let the search thing go after this message, I promise. Let's just say there were a couple of bank robbers spotted in the Utah wilderness areas. You don't think LE (along with FBI) would be out combing the countrysides in a heartbeat?

wyome
01-13-2010, 12:06 PM
If Kiirsi has a strong gut (or apparently received some message) about the belief that Susan was taken against her will to another state, I'm still perplexed as to how this could be possible.

IF it was someone she KNEW and let into the house (ie. no evidence of breakin or struggle), then surely this person was coming to the door after midnight on a Sunday? Then somehow managed to lock up after he took her? This seems impossible due to the fact that Susan's keys were found inside. Unless Josh gave someone the keys. The police had to break a window to get in the next day.

Regardless, if Kiirsi has the intuition that this has happened, does anyone know if Kiirsi has shared this view with Josh?

Kiirsi's shares openly on her webpage (http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/the-dark-side-of-the-search-for-susan/#comments) that this is the reason she is not actively searching. I get that. But I wonder why no one close to case is pleading for her safe return?

Fairy1
01-13-2010, 12:07 PM
It's interesting how people can view things so differently. I'm thinking of all the married LDS women I know and I can tell you most wear the pants in their family. There are more than a few husbands I feel sorry for. They have wives that demand the big house, the new car, the entire package and make their husbands work several jobs to support that. Maybe it's different while a man and woman are standing inside a Wardhouse or Temple. But in day to day life, in the real world I see no more gender bias in LDS marriages than I do in the general population. I see how the good and the bad of the LDS church affects both sexes equally.

People keep talking about Susan's love for her church and Josh's opposing feelings about it causing problems in their marriage. I wouldn't doubt that. Couples of all faiths, races and sexual orientation break up all the time because one person is at a different place in the relationship than the other person is. I don't get why this always has to be brought back to the religion thing.

You're absolutely right SuziQ - and I don't mean to generalize at all - just sharing the view from my own experiences.

That being said - I believe religion keeps coming up here for a couple of reasons. We know that Susan was very involved in her church and church life. We also know that Josh wasn't and that this was a point of contention between them - quite possibly to the point of being a dealbreaker for Susan.

We also know that Susan had sought counsel with respect to her marriage within the church and that, at some point, she feared for her safety where Josh was concerned. I admit we don't really know how much of her fear she disclosed to her church counselor, but if she was very open about it and was still advised to stay in the marriage and make it work, I have a problem with that. And I would have a problem with it no matter the church or religion. IF that is what happened in this case, the advice Susan was given may very well have led to her death. JMO

Bartleby
01-13-2010, 12:18 PM
Spelling and grammar aside, I think the important point is Josh grew up with dysfunctional parents / family. Mom split with the children. Years later, Dad split with the children. We have no idea why either split? We do know after a long divorce, SP got custody of the children, but do not know why.

Josh's parents were not much of an example of a marriage relationship. Red flag? Sadly, with a divorce / single parent rate of 40%, he is not alone.

The way this reads, I think you may have confused Josh's father's childhood (from the Steve Chantrey website) with Josh's childhood.

Josh's father is the Steve Chantrey character, and he's the one whose mother split with the kids, then dad found them, then his dad split with the kids with his parents' (Josh's Grandparents) help.

My wife has pointed out that the website background story is confused. First his mother steals off with the kids, but the dad finds them " My dad found us after a few months, and my parents reconciled."

The dad steals off with the kids, and there's no mention of the mother finding them ever again.

Then he talks about "Growing up with a single mother who supported her four children working as a secretary" and "One of Mom's suitors was a music arranger.", so exactly when was he being brought up by a single mom? Those few months after she took them, but before dad found them? Did she have suitors during this time?

One telling line is "After learning a few chords I began writing songs of my own. Most were unremarkable and immature in their style and content." Obviously nothing has changed there.


So the "About" section of the Steve Chantrey website is confused in the timeline and whether he was raised by a single mom, single dad, or what. It reads like the product of a delusional mind IMO. Josh's dad may or may not have been physically involved with Susan's disappearance, but mentally emotionally he's put a huge strain on their marriage.

AMOO.

wyome
01-13-2010, 12:31 PM
You're absolutely right SuziQ - and I don't mean to generalize at all - just sharing the view from my own experiences.

That being said - I believe religion keeps coming up here for a couple of reasons. We know that Susan was very involved in her church and church life. We also know that Josh wasn't and that this was a point of contention between them - quite possibly to the point of being a dealbreaker for Susan.

We also know that Susan had sought counsel with respect to her marriage within the church and that, at some point, she feared for her safety where Josh was concerned. I admit we don't really know how much of her fear she disclosed to her church counselor, but if she was very open about it and was still advised to stay in the marriage and make it work, I have a problem with that. And I would have a problem with it no matter the church or religion. IF that is what happened in this case, the advice Susan was given may very well have led to her death. JMO


From what I understand, she saw Peterson (a neighbor; not sure if he is LDS) for some marriage counseling, and he's on record for advising her to leave him. Does anyone know if she saw another counselor?

I think the WellsFargo coworkers are going to be key in this investigation. I don't recall ever reading where Susan discussed "fearing" Josh with Peterson. (Correct me if I'm wrong). But with the coworkers at her work, there seems to be (at this point) more direct communication about fearing him, documenting journals, discussing the fact she'd never commit suicide, etc. It seems to me that she may have felt safer communicating with coworkers than with her own neighbors and friends. And if true, for good reason since her niche at work was so separate from Josh's influence.

After all, who keeps a journal at work? I think most bosses would be annoyed that an employee would be journalling on company time.

LaLaw2000
01-13-2010, 12:33 PM
I looked at Josh's Dad's page last night before I went to bed. :eek: LOL, I think there is something wrong with this guy. I see a guy who is full of himself and thinks he is seriously cool.............:cool: NOT. Maybe now that so many of his children are back living at home, he can form a family band. Just my personal opinion, but I think Steven Chantrey has some sort of mental problem! I do wonder what Josh's poor Mother had to go through before she got away from him.

Wonder if Josh has updated his Dad's page because the dates at the bottom are: 2005 - 2010. Anyone notice that or know what that means? TIA.

As far as searching goes, I am all for searching and feel there should be an ongoing search effort even if it is just around the West Valley outlying areas. I have read all of the reasons not to search, but I would still be searching if it were my friend or loved one missing.

We need an update from LE. The evidence recovered from the house or van has been at the crime lab long enough for LE to have an idea what it may reveal. They may not have the final report, but IMO, they do know what they are looking at by now. I had expected an arrest within a couple of weeks.

I do not want Susan's case to grow cold. She is out there somewhere and needs to be found for her boys' sake and her familiy's sake. My thoughts and prayers are with Susan, her boys, and her family each and every day.

MOO

sniperacer
01-13-2010, 12:39 PM
The way this reads, I think you may have confused Josh's father's childhood (from the Steve Chantrey website) with Josh's childhood.

Josh's father is the Steve Chantrey character, and he's the one whose mother split with the kids, then dad found them, then his dad split with the kids with his parents' (Josh's Grandparents) help.



Arg, you are right. Wrong generation. Josh is the child of the second generation of divorced families. And Josh, himself, is in the third generation of a broken family.

I guess dysfunctional family stories sound the same to me?

Bartleby
01-13-2010, 12:47 PM
From what I understand, she saw Peterson (a neighbor; not sure if he is LDS) for some marriage counseling, and he's on record for advising her to leave him. Does anyone know if she saw another counselor?

I think the WellsFargo coworkers are going to be key in this investigation. I don't recall ever reading where Susan discussed "fearing" Josh with Peterson. (Correct me if I'm wrong). But with the coworkers at her work, there seems to be (at this point) more direct communication about fearing him, documenting journals, discussing the fact she'd never commit suicide, etc. It seems to me that she may have felt safer communicating with coworkers than with her own neighbors and friends. And if true, for good reason since her niche at work was so separate from Josh's influence.

After all, who keeps a journal at work? I think most bosses would be annoyed that an employee would be journalling on company time.

My understanding was that she talked to Peterson about marriage guidance counselling because he had already gone through it. After a few of therse informal chats he advised her to leave Josh, as he couldn't see the situation improving. I don't know if she ever saw anyone else officially, or if Josh knew about her chats with Peterson.

Desertwind
01-13-2010, 12:48 PM
I wonder if the reason Kiirsi and the rest of the friends and family aren't searching is because they already know Susan is not alive? The sense of urgency wouldn't be the same, I would think, and perhaps they're just waiting for the results back for the arrest, and don't want to tip off Josh. Also, if Josh were my neighbor, and I thought he killed his wife, I sure would be happy the sooner he got out of the neighborhood.
I lived in SLC for over 10 years, it is a great place. I am not LDS, but my LDS friends and neighbors were all wonderful, loving caring people. I'm certain that when they feel the time is right, there will be plenty of memorials and tributes to Susan.

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 12:57 PM
My understanding was that she talked to Peterson about marriage guidance counselling because he had already gone through it. After a few of therse informal chats he advised her to leave Josh, as he couldn't see the situation improving. I don't know if she ever saw anyone else officially, or if Josh knew about her chats with Peterson.

I remember Peterson called the cops on Josh once too. I wonder what that was about.

Vegas Bride
01-13-2010, 01:12 PM
I agree with you, and I am sure we're all thinking the same thing!
It's too bad these utah residents aren't massing together to try and do something. I know the snow level is high, but come on try some searching!!

I live in Utah and agree, I just do not understand why there are no searches.
There are so many possibilities, many far fatched, but no matter what someone wants to think, Susan is somewhere!
What if Josh really is innocent (I know I know, just throwing this out there) and Susan was abducted while he went on his smore making trip in the middle of the night. Have neighboring homes been searched? She could be held captive down in someones cellar just waiting and praying for someone to come save her.
What if she was sleepwalking and walked out of the home on her own and eventually collapsed, dying from the cold.
Were there ever tracking dogs brought in?

Yesterday I made a trip in to Provo/Orem, I had my dog with me and so we stopped along the way for me to walk him for potty breaks, we were up in Soldiers Summit and Susan was so much on my mind, everywhere we walked I looked closely at everything thinking "This is where a body could be laying" There were some large propane tanks surrounded by concrete slabs, I went over there to if there was anything unusual.

I'm wondering if there are some people who do want to do more, but are being held back by the Bishop of their church? If the Bishop wanted a search going on, believe me there would be a search going on!

Josh does not strike me as someone who is willing to put much effort into anything. So I tend to think disposing of a body is the same way, he's going to want to get rid of it asap!
I wish Tim Miller would get involved, people here need a fresh breath of air, new ideas and the focus needs to be on finding Susan!
I'm wondering if it would help at all to start a letter campaign to the president of the Mormon Church? They do have the power to get hundreds of thousands of people looking, if they asked, members from all over the country would suddenly come to help! Why are they so quiet?

VB

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 01:18 PM
Has anyone seen the NG transcript from last night?

Vegas Bride
01-13-2010, 01:22 PM
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/contact-us

Ok, here is a link where it shows how to contact the LDS
I hope I don't get in trouble for suggesting this but there is much truth in the saying The squeeky wheel gets the grease"

There is nothing at all mentioned on their website about Susan missing and I think that is an outrage!

VB

Dr.Fessel
01-13-2010, 01:23 PM
I live in Utah and agree, I just do not understand why there are no searches.
There are so many possibilities, many far fatched, but no matter what someone wants to think, Susan is somewhere!
What if Josh really is innocent (I know I know, just throwing this out there) and Susan was abducted while he went on his smore making trip in the middle of the night. Have neighboring homes been searched? She could be held captive down in someones cellar just waiting and praying for someone to come save her.
What if she was sleepwalking and walked out of the home on her own and eventually collapsed, dying from the cold.
Were there ever tracking dogs brought in?

Yesterday I made a trip in to Provo/Orem, I had my dog with me and so we stopped along the way for me to walk him for potty breaks, we were up in Soldiers Summit and Susan was so much on my mind, everywhere we walked I looked closely at everything thinking "This is where a body could be laying" There were some large propane tanks surrounded by concrete slabs, I went over there to if there was anything unusual.

I'm wondering if there are some people who do want to do more, but are being held back by the Bishop of their church? If the Bishop wanted a search going on, believe me there would be a search going on!

Josh does not strike me as someone who is willing to put much effort into anything. So I tend to think disposing of a body is the same way, he's going to want to get rid of it asap!
I wish Tim Miller would get involved, people here need a fresh breath of air, new ideas and the focus needs to be on finding Susan!
I'm wondering if it would help at all to start a letter campaign to the president of the Mormon Church? They do have the power to get hundreds of thousands of people looking, if they asked, members from all over the country would suddenly come to help! Why are they so quiet?

VB

Great post. I would like to ad I have seen the Mormon church call out thousands of volunteers from around the world to come and help restore towns , search for bodies and feed those thousands of workers every day for months when the Teton Dam broke in Idaho.

I just noticed you say Josh took off his wedding ring. How did you know that? Is that something in a video the police wanted preserved?

DomCasual
01-13-2010, 01:29 PM
I thought this was an interesting comment on Kiirsi's blog: "About the Josh video–I didn’t make it, or the fliers with his picture on them. I am working very closely with Susan’s family and they do not want to show a profile of “Cox family versus Josh.” They just want to concentrate on finding Susan."

Clearly, the whole strategy on their side is, "Don't do ANYTHING that will keep us from having access to our grandchildren."

What a sad, sad position to be in.