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STEADFAST
01-26-2010, 07:00 PM
This thread is for small details of the case that strike you as hinky, odd, intriguing, contradictory, underappreciated, too coincidental, too random, etc.

For instance, why in the world would the location of the alleged first meeting be changed from Boston to Indianapolis (I think that was the second one)?

Or: Am I to understand that Tammi has family in Victoria, TX??? That seems way too coincidental to me.

That kind of thing.

mamaeb
01-26-2010, 07:07 PM
tammi claims that when her computer is looked through that LE will see searches for how to obtain fake social security cards and also their plans to house elizabeth in tennessee

she claims that this is on her computer because when elizabeth said she was going to run, the smiths got worried and were looking into options for her. Also she said that elizabeth was saying she was getting a fake social security card and tammi was looking into that just to understand what that was.

YellowSubmarine
01-26-2010, 07:13 PM
tammi claims that when her computer is looked through that LE will see searches for how to obtain fake social security cards and also their plans to house elizabeth in tennessee

she claims that this is on her computer because when elizabeth said she was going to run, the smiths got worried and were looking into options for her. Also she said that elizabeth was saying she was getting a fake social security card and tammi was looking into that just to understand what that was.

Wow! I missed that somewhere! Definitely CYA - just like going to the media claiming EJ was trying to "coerse a false confession" out of her.

I also find it a bit too coincidental that the S's have a home in TN, which is where JanetM is, which is where there have been a number of tips to.

OneLove
01-26-2010, 07:16 PM
and that famous interview where TS insists she only copied and rushed the paternity paperwork through without even looking at it.

But then she admitted the name on it was her cousin's that EJ had never met.

And THEN she finally admitted that she wrote that name HERSELF on the paper.

And she doesn't seem to understand why she is being looked at as suspicious.

mamaeb
01-26-2010, 07:19 PM
Wow! I missed that somewhere! Definitely CYA - just like going to the media claiming EJ was trying to "coerse a false confession" out of her. I also find it a bit too coincidental that the S's have a home in TN, which is where JanetM is, which is where there have been a number of tips to.
here's a link

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html


"JOSTAD: What kind of things were you hoping that police would look at on your computers? What information there would be relevant to the search?

SMITH: Well, OK, in -- from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her -- whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of -- you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions."

yes.. she also mentioned she was adopting a boy with down syndrome from agape but that it fell through because the mom wanted money?? well agape is located in arizona, san antonio and tennessee

not_my_kids
01-26-2010, 11:00 PM
Little tiny thing, really.
LE says that Tammi and Jack are POI's.
LE says that we can't really believe Tammi, and says it publicly. (Paraphrased.)

Yet, LE won't talk about who gave EJ the GPS, leading me to wonder if it really was Tammi.

SallyManda
01-27-2010, 12:03 AM
I thought the couple had originally both been at the airport? This article states that JS reported back to him upon returning from the airport.
I am getting so confused! I can't keep anything straight.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01...y6087526.shtml

Plus I am super weirded out about how she says she held him and loved him... Its not like picking out a puppy TS....

W8nC
01-27-2010, 12:03 AM
Tammi met EJ and Gabriel at Logan Airport in Boston

or

Tami and Jack met EJ and Gabriel at an airport in Indianapolis

or

Tammi & Jack have only known Elizabeth a few weeks (as of the end of the 2009)



ETA: Oooops! SallyManda beat me to this, lol

not_my_kids
01-27-2010, 12:07 AM
Tammi may have been alone when she spotted Gabriel and EJ. She says she was on the way home from her adoption falling apart.

Who goes to adopt a child, by themselves, when they are happily married?

Leads me to think: That isn't where/how she met EJ or That isn't where she was coming from or She's not happily married or All of the above.

DaneBramage
01-27-2010, 01:10 AM
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/DaneBramage_RTR/1248737522741.jpg

DairyGirl
01-27-2010, 01:11 AM
Tammi may have been alone when she spotted Gabriel and EJ. She says she was on the way home from her adoption falling apart.
Who goes to adopt a child, by themselves, when they are happily married?

Leads me to think: That isn't where/how she met EJ or That isn't where she was coming from or She's not happily married or All of the above.

Where did you learn that? I never heard it before.

captdj
01-27-2010, 01:30 AM
Elizabeth being Happy after the "important meeting" hmmmm
she could have told Babysitter... Running Errands, looking for a job, getting driver license, but no it was an" important meeting" and why not take Gabriel if it was an illegal adoption meeting why risk having another person that could ID her and Gabriel...Hmmm

YellowSubmarine
01-27-2010, 01:34 AM
Didn't know where else to post this --

Photos posted by January:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/wsjanuary/01.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/wsjanuary/02.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/wsjanuary/03.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/wsjanuary/04.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/wsjanuary/05.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/wsjanuary/06.jpg


1st and 2nd photos show family pics in the background. All photos tie together between the bedspread and Gabes clothing. I don't think these were taken at the motel.

kissdegirl
01-27-2010, 01:43 AM
LM said it's a picture of EJ and her mom, and EJ and her twin brother, and that she doesn't go aywhere without them. It's in the hotel, and LE has compared the room in the pics to the one's in SA. Sorry. :(


Didn't know where else to post this --

Photos posted by January:



1st and 2nd photos show family pics in the background. All photos tie together between the bedspread and Gabes clothing. I don't think these were taken at the motel.

YellowSubmarine
01-27-2010, 01:52 AM
Ahhh, thanks kissdegirl, must've missed that!

kissdegirl
01-27-2010, 02:11 AM
sure. I just really wish we had more concrete stuff to analyze. Those photos are about all we have. They are real. He is real. He needs help and I wish to God I could find him tonight.

not_my_kids
01-27-2010, 02:36 AM
Where did you learn that? I never heard it before.

It was in her facebook replies. She said that she was on her way back from attempting to adopt a little boy from with Down's syndrome through Agape adoption agency and the bio parents asked for money...and that's illegal...and she doesn't do anything illegal...so she called it off.
I know someone has screen shots.

kissdegirl
01-27-2010, 02:45 AM
It was in her facebook replies. She said that she was on her way back from attempting to adopt a little boy from with Down's syndrome through Agape adoption agency and the bio parents asked for money...and that's illegal...and she doesn't do anything illegal...so she called it off.
I know someone has screen shots.

:laugh:doesn't do anything illegal....yeah, that clears it up TS.

DaneBramage
01-27-2010, 03:51 AM
...there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...

TPS if you're reading this. You can obfuscate and misdirect all you want, but the people here see through your BS. So does LE. You're toast.

DaneBramage
01-27-2010, 04:30 AM
Something else has made me go "hmmmmmmm" since the very beginning.

If TPS is such a loving mother, why did not she get custody of the three children that came from her own body??!!??

Are these adoptions a pathetic attempt to fill that void in her life?

Hmmmm......

W8nC
01-27-2010, 10:55 AM
Didn't know where else to post this --

Photos posted by January:


1st and 2nd photos show family pics in the background. All photos tie together between the bedspread and Gabes clothing. I don't think these were taken at the motel.

Notice, particularly in the 2nd photo, that the headboard is attached to the wall. Typically, this is done in hotel rooms, but not in homes. Also notice the way the carpet continues up the wall in the 3rd and subsequesnt pics, instead of standard home type baseboards. This is, again, a typical commercial application.

fran
01-27-2010, 11:25 AM
I don't have links for this but I sometimes take brief notes.

When the babysitter first appeared, she said she'd babysat on 12/23.
We knew it was on 12/23 that TS talked to EJ and had the person in Tn call EJ.
The babysitter said when EJ returned and was all happy, she was also on a phone call and said it was the 'grandmother,' and I thought it was TS.

A few days ago I came back here reading and find out EJ may have been there earlier, 12/20, the babysitter wasn't sure of the date.

Now, I posted about the above link of 12/23, the babysitter, the phone calls, the Tn connection here on Websleuths.

Yet.................a few days after I posted that info, suddenly the days are getting confused............12/20, 12/21,...........etc

I'm not buyin' it. That is, unless someone can show me differently. ;)

Makes you go :eek:, was someone reading here and wanting to :confused: us?

Just sayin'
fran

RuffinPuffin
01-27-2010, 11:38 AM
Something bothers me~May be nothing but could be something- Gabriel is wearing the same outfit (cream color with little dogs) in one of the hotel pictures on Dec 26 that he has on in the pic of he and Hannah at the Smiths home. <redacted> If the Smiths thought that EJ was just going for a visit and coming right back, she wouldnt pack a bunch of his clothes from the Smiths. And if the Smiths thought Gabriel was coming back to live with them, would they have sent his clothes with EJ anyway? Just makes me think that they knew he was not coming back to that house right away and sent Gabriels clothes with EJ

Also how could TS post pics of Gabriel on FB with Santa on the 22nd if she thought that EJ had dissapeared on the 18th and had not been heard from? If TS did not know where the baby she was supposed to adopt was, her frame of mind should have been panicked and worried. But she is posting Christmas pictures like hes not even missing?? Just seems odd

Prof
01-27-2010, 11:45 AM
Is the airport meeting just another LIE that TS will explain away or not? hmmmn
I think it is important because the key to how TS arranged to hide/adopt out Gabe might be found in the way I believe TS and EJ met in the first place

I think the airport meeting is a lie for two reasons

The first reason is in her phone "interview" with EJ in Florida--
http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html


In the interview Tammi struggles with the word airport -- you can hear her say ''in the ho-- airport"
[TS and JS do this sort of thing often -start to say one word and then change it to a completely different word, and I believe the first word is the truth]
She did the same thing on NG too, struggle to come up with the word "airport" but I don't have that link right now


The second reason

Tammi said she "made a poor decision when I FIRST MET Elizabeth" and helped her fill out the paperwork -- when she first met her?

Also when she says she did not help her get there she pauses --she looks like she is still lying
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/PD-searches-home-of-persons-of-interest-in-Tempe/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx
"I made a poor decision back when I met Elizabeth," said Smith. "I helped her (Elizabeth) file her paperwork so she could get her child support and things like that. There was another name put on there and I helped her (Elizabeth) fill out that paperwork, and because of that it obviously doesn't make me look good."


My theory of why they came up with the Airport? It was part of a plan, schemed up - TS tells EJ that if she is asked about the arrangements they made together - the arrangements in San Antonio, or asked about what happened to Gabriel at all, then to say that she gave him to a couple she just met in a park, and she would corroborate it with a story about how they met at an airport -- perhaps EJ did meet a couple at an airport when she went to Boston, and that's how they came up with the story, but to imagine that couple was the Smiths is jut too coincidental for me -- I think they met at a hotel in Phoenx after initial contact on the internet

From the media link below:
Tammi and Jack Smith said Johnson's story about the couple in the park sounds very similar to how they met her.
"We met in an airport. I saw her distraught and crying with a newborn baby," Tammi Smith said. "And that doesn't look like a mother that wants to be a mother."

Jack Smith admitted he thought the entire adoption process with Johnson "felt strange," but that they all lived nearby and they had bonded with the baby after keeping him for a couple of weeks in December.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/search-baby-gabriel-arizona-mother-refuses-police-find/story?id=9489263 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/search-baby-gabriel-arizona-mother-refuses-police-find/story?id=9489263)

Prof
01-27-2010, 11:54 AM
Something bothers me~May be nothing but could be something- Gabriel is wearing the same outfit (cream color with little dogs) in one of the hotel pictures on Dec 26 that he has on in the pic of he and Hannah at the Smiths home. Jack posts on Dec 22 "Jack Smith Man it feels like Christmas here in Phoenix...a chilly 52 ...degrees. We're in the midst of a hiccup with the new baby, Gabriel. The mother picked him up Friday evening to visit the father and hasn't been seen or heard from since. Pray!! December 22, 2009 at 11:31am" If the Smiths thought that EJ was just going for a visit and coming right back, she wouldnt pack a bunch of his clothes from the Smiths. And if the Smiths thought Gabriel was coming back to live with them, would they have sent his clothes with EJ anyway? Just makes me think that they knew he was not coming back to that house right away and sent Gabriels clothes with EJ

Also how could TS post pics of Gabriel on FB with Santa on the 22nd if she thought that EJ had dissapeared on the 18th and had not been heard from? If TS did not know where the baby she was supposed to adopt was, her frame of mind should have been panicked and worried. But she is posting Christmas pictures like hes not even missing?? Just seems odd

:Welcome-12-june:

BBM Great point! I wondered that myself-- the posting of the pics on the day EJ left AZ seems telling to me -- obviously those pics would have to have been taken before the 18th -- why wait that long to post them, and why that day, the day that they supposedly went to pick Gabriel back up from EJ's trailer to find out that they were both gone?

ETA -- the 18th is when EJ had the Smiths meet her at a Church to give Gabriel back to her so she could take him to Logan for his visit
The Smith's have stated that they did not know that EJ had left until they went to her trailer to pick him up on the 22nd and they were gone (the day EJ borrowed the car from her grandfather for a job interview)

Hmmn how did they know they were actually gone - the new roommate? dunno

ETA ETA there are conflicting reports on the day she borrowed the car, the day she left AZ and just who went to pick Gabriel from the trailer on the 22nd, so I give up lol

trillian
01-27-2010, 02:11 PM
I find it so totally odd that TS talks to EJ but doesnt ask any of the obvious questions.
Why did you go to SA and pay for a week? What did you do there? What was your plan? Who has your computer? Why did you hire a babysitter? Where did you go that day? Where is your diaper bag? etc....

Things that might actually help find out what happened to Gabriel. It's as if she only cares about making her involvement look innocent and not finding that precious baby!

Kaytle
01-27-2010, 02:16 PM
I agree with you that the first two don't look like they were taken in the hotel. On Elizabeth's Myspace page there is a picture of her and a younger Gabriel where the headboard and end tables look the same as in pictures 1 and 2.

southern_comfort
01-27-2010, 02:31 PM
I agree with you that the first two don't look like they were taken in the hotel. On Elizabeth's Myspace page there is a picture of her and a younger Gabriel where the headboard and end tables look the same as in pictures 1 and 2.

I think it's been established that all of those pics are in the hotel. Here is a Homegate interior picture:http://www.homegatesuites.com/db_king-11.jpg

You can see the bedspread and the floor match the photos, as well as the artwork on the wall. On the hotel nightstand EJ has placed her family pictures, which apparently she values greatly.


(ETD something I wasn't sure about)

WholeLottaRosie
01-27-2010, 02:57 PM
And I still think there is something funny about no Christmas Pics on TPS's FB, considering she is a big picture taker and poster. Odd that.

stormmolly
01-27-2010, 05:58 PM
:Welcome-12-june:

BBM Great point! I wondered that myself-- the posting of the pics on the day EJ left AZ seems telling to me -- obviously those pics would have to have been taken before the 18th -- why wait that long to post them, and why that day, the day that they supposedly went to pick Gabriel back up from EJ's trailer to find out that they were both gone?

ETA -- the 18th is when EJ had the Smiths meet her at a Church to give Gabriel back to her so she could take him to Logan for his visit
The Smith's have stated that they did not know that EJ had left until they went to her trailer to pick him up on the 22nd and they were gone (the day EJ borrowed the car from her grandfather for a job interview)

Hmmn how did they know they were actually gone - the new roommate? dunno

ETA ETA there are conflicting reports on the day she borrowed the car, the day she left AZ and just who went to pick Gabriel from the trailer on the 22nd, so I give up lol



I am saying hmmm, the smiths are saying they did not know till the 22nd she was gone but on NG they said this: when asked were do you think she got all the money,

TS said: All I know is that a few days prior to her leaving, she had told me she had sold dogs etc etc,
To me its says TS knew she was leaving, cause why would EJ be selling all this stuff, and TS know about it, and somewhere I read that TS said after LM would not sign the papers, she had no choice but to run,

I hope I am doing this right as I am fairly new to the forum, have read a lot but not posted much, :blushing:

W8nC
01-27-2010, 06:02 PM
I find it so totally odd that TS talks to EJ but doesnt ask any of the obvious questions.
Why did you go to SA and pay for a week? What did you do there? What was your plan? Who has your computer? Why did you hire a babysitter? Where did you go that day? Where is your diaper bag? etc....

Things that might actually help find out what happened to Gabriel. It's as if she only cares about making her involvement look innocent and not finding that precious baby!

I've wondered the same thing! If she is trying to "help" LE, why not get some answers to REAL questions, why ask stupid ones instead. Would EJ know the alleged couple's phone number, even if she made the arrangements herself? Probably not. Who knows phone numbers anymore. You dial a number you see written down somewhere, then it's in your phone forever. You never need to actually know it.

She spends 28 minutes on the phone and doesn't get a single bit of new or useful information! What's the deal with that? Thanks SO much, Tammi, for drawing out the call so we could trace the number of a person we have in custody....yeah, we need to know WHERE she was calling FROM...that helps SO MUCH and we're eternally grateful, lol.

W8nC
01-27-2010, 06:07 PM
I am saying hmmm, the smiths are saying they did not know till the 22nd she was gone but on NG they said this: when asked were do you think she got all the money,

TS said: All I know is that a few days prior to her leaving, she had told me she had sold dogs etc etc,
To me its says TS knew she was leaving, cause why would EJ be selling all this stuff, and TS know about it, and somewhere I read that TS said after LM would not sign the papers, she had no choice but to run,

I hope I am doing this right as I am fairly new to the forum, have read a lot but not posted much, :blushing:

Yes, YES, I'm not crazy...I thought I'd seen that too, and now my avatar twin confirms it, haha.

Welcome stormmolly, and thanks for the excellent post. Yes, I remember something just like that, that TJ was aware EJ was leaving BEFORE she left, because of selling her dogs and other stuff, and it DID have something to do with Logan not wanting to sign the papers. I'll see if I can find the interview.....it was a very early one on NG, iirc.

Thanks, and again WELCOME!

DairyGirl
01-27-2010, 06:08 PM
I am saying hmmm, the smiths are saying they did not know till the 22nd she was gone but on NG they said this: when asked were do you think she got all the money,

TS said: All I know is that a few days prior to her leaving, she had told me she had sold dogs etc etc,
To me its says TS knew she was leaving, cause why would EJ be selling all this stuff, and TS know about it, and somewhere I read that TS said after LM would not sign the papers, she had no choice but to run,

I hope I am doing this right as I am fairly new to the forum, have read a lot but not posted much, :blushing:

I believe that not only did the Smiths know that EJ was running, they gave her the GPS to help her. No way do I believe that the Smiths thought she was just picking up Gabriel for a visit with his dad. I think the Smiths sent her to San Antonio for whatever reason. That reason is why they are still POI's.

BeanE
01-27-2010, 06:18 PM
I am saying hmmm, the smiths are saying they did not know till the 22nd she was gone but on NG they said this: when asked were do you think she got all the money,

TS said: All I know is that a few days prior to her leaving, she had told me she had sold dogs etc etc,
To me its says TS knew she was leaving, cause why would EJ be selling all this stuff, and TS know about it, and somewhere I read that TS said after LM would not sign the papers, she had no choice but to run,

I hope I am doing this right as I am fairly new to the forum, have read a lot but not posted much, :blushing:

You make excellent points about Tammi's inconsistencies. It's really hard to take them all and try to pinpoint the little grains of truth in them.

Welcome to Websleuths, stormmolly! Good to have you here :-)

stormmolly
01-27-2010, 06:49 PM
You make excellent points about Tammi's inconsistencies. It's really hard to take them all and try to pinpoint the little grains of truth in them.

Welcome to Websleuths, stormmolly! Good to have you here :-)

Thank you all for the Welcome, I have followed this since the story broke, I always go with my gut feelings, and first day I saw TS and JS on NG, I knew they were not telling all, I too have found so many inconsistencies, The car seat was another one that got me one day on the NG show they did not have one, and a show or two later, they did,

I believe the truth will come out, and soon,

Praying for the safe return of Baby Gabriel :angel:

W8nC
01-27-2010, 07:01 PM
Now I'm even confusing myeself, lol.....Yes i believe TS knew about EJ's trip before she left, since she (Tammi) had a hand (at least) in setting it up. What I was trying to say in my previous post, but never got around to, was that she's not keeping her stories straight. She says one thing in one interview and something else in another interview that contradicts the first thing, then posts on her FB something altogether different.

Her alibis and explanations are so full of holes, it makes me crazy just trying to keep up with all the inconsistencies.

RuffinPuffin
01-27-2010, 09:09 PM
here is a HHMMMMMM- Tammi is selling a sink posted on the 18th of Dec. (right before EJ left) Is that because she is trying to get money to give to EJ?? The Smiths have plenty of money, but if they had given EJ a large amount of money say $500.00 (just so happens that is the amount she is asking for a $2000.00 sink) then it might raise a flag,LE could trace the bank withdraws, but this way it is untraceable cash??

From Tammis FB~~
http://www.facebook.com//profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=1255743965448&id=1585061919#/photo.php?pid=558954&id=1585061919&fbid=1228661528404

DairyGirl
01-27-2010, 09:28 PM
here is a HHMMMMMM- Tammi is selling a sink posted on the 18th of Dec. (right before EJ left) Is that because she is trying to get money to give to EJ?? The Smiths have plenty of money, but if they had given EJ a large amount of money say $500.00 (just so happens that is the amount she is asking for a $2000.00 sink) then it might raise a flag,LE could trace the bank withdraws, but this way it is untraceable cash??

From Tammis FB~~
http://www.facebook.com//profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=1255743965448&id=1585061919#/photo.php?pid=558954&id=1585061919&fbid=1228661528404

I agree it's odd timing to be selling something when they thought they were adopting a baby but at this point I think EJ had already left. I do think the Smiths are having more financial problems then they admit to. With 5 businesses and a new house to build they are probably deeply in debt, which my explain why they were trying to do an adoption on the cheap.

Marigold
01-27-2010, 11:06 PM
I've been sick and away from the boards so I apologize if this has already been posted...

Does anyone know where Tammi got the picture of EJ that she posted on her FB: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=558954&id=1585061919&fbid=1228661528404#/photo.php?pid=581084&id=1585061919&fbid=1238212767179

I just find it so strange that Tammi would post such a warning about EJ on Dec 29, but yet sound defensive/protective of EJ in interviews Tammi did after EJ's arrest. In this video, TPS talks about how she heard Gabriel in the background when talking to EJ. Tammi also says that after EJ was arrested, EJ asked her to help get an attorney to get custody of Gabriel. http://www.kpho.com/video/22128137/index.html

Mels3kidz
01-27-2010, 11:11 PM
[QUOTE=RuffinPuffin;4740120]here is a HHMMMMMM- Tammi is selling a sink posted on the 18th of Dec. (right before EJ left) Is that because she is trying to get money to give to EJ?? The Smiths have plenty of money, but if they had given EJ a large amount of money say $500.00 (just so happens that is the amount she is asking for a $2000.00 sink) then it might raise a flag,LE could trace the bank withdraws, but this way it is untraceable cash??


Or if Ej had already left to perhaps wire her the money?

Melissa

OneLove
01-27-2010, 11:18 PM
I've been sick and away from the boards so I apologize if this has already been posted...

Does anyone know where Tammi got the picture of EJ that she posted on her FB: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=558954&id=1585061919&fbid=1228661528404#/photo.php?pid=581084&id=1585061919&fbid=1238212767179

I just find it so strange that Tammi would post such a warning about EJ on Dec 29, but yet sound defensive/protective of EJ in interviews Tammi did after EJ's arrest. In this video, TPS talks about how she heard Gabriel in the background when talking to EJ. Tammi also says that after EJ was arrested, EJ asked her to help get an attorney to get custody of Gabriel. http://www.kpho.com/video/22128137/index.html

Could someone post this video link to Tammi's pic/page where they are discussing why LE didn't search the landfills immediately?

ETA: Personally, I think this link should be posted everywhere that Tammi Fay and her supporters complain that LE should have searched landfills from the time of EJ's death-text. It would show her to be the liar and hypocrite that she is.

jjokelly1968
01-28-2010, 12:46 AM
hhhhmmmm, so TPS felt the car seat EJ had was inadequate. She buys a replacement. We have pics of Baby G in the new car seat right? So why then later - after EJ has skipped town, does she (TPS) say on a phone interview that the car seat is in 'his' room at her house? I mean did she let EJ leave with the baby at some earlier point but say, uh, no you can't take this better car seat with you - you have to take the inadequate one? Doesn't make sense. I doubt that EJ would have turned down the new car seat.

DaneBramage
01-28-2010, 01:13 AM
Dang you are good!!!! LOL on "rod iron". TFFPRS (aka TPS) is a genius.


here is a HHMMMMMM- Tammi is selling a sink posted on the 18th of Dec. (right before EJ left) Is that because she is trying to get money to give to EJ?? The Smiths have plenty of money, but if they had given EJ a large amount of money say $500.00 (just so happens that is the amount she is asking for a $2000.00 sink) then it might raise a flag,LE could trace the bank withdraws, but this way it is untraceable cash??

From Tammis FB~~
http://www.facebook.com//profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=1255743965448&id=1585061919#/photo.php?pid=558954&id=1585061919&fbid=1228661528404

not_my_kids
01-28-2010, 02:59 AM
When I noticed this, my stomach got that fluttery feeling, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. In the text that she sent saying she killed Gabe, she specifically says, she will email Logan the exact location.

Why specifically email? Why not call or text? This to me indicates that she did ditch her phone somewhere, likely resulting in the stray ping in Victoria. In fact, that may have been her last call from that phone, and then she got hold of Tammi from a different phone or the contact with Tammi immediately after Logan was her last contact from that phone.

I can't shake the feeling that this random thought is part of something pretty big, but I can't puzzle out what yet. I had no idea where to put this so it ended up here.

PercyVeer
01-28-2010, 06:21 AM
My biggest hmmm is;
Who did EJ trust, if : the father was in jail when the baby was born? if this doc is valid:
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/scripts/meeds/qreturn.asp?casenumber=CR2004023070
Where was EJ when she got out of the hosp? Who would she trust enough to stay with? This person needs to be in touch with her, not TS, IMO. She would obviously have trust issues, right now she has transferred the trust to the lawyer, who is not helping find Gabe IMO.

Litlred
01-29-2010, 12:44 AM
The site below is making me go hmmm after looking at the date TPS last edited it......

Last edit date 12-20-09 and why still Nashville TN? I know she lived there but don't you think she would have changed it by now?

http://www.peekyou.com/showprofile.php?action=get_history&id=202666157

Prof
01-29-2010, 01:09 AM
I found another CL ad (in addition to the sink, and king size bed) posted by T& S
In the description the reason for selling this expensive massage/detox table is because they are downsizing http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/app/1530758522.html
Huh?
The ad was posted December 30, 2009 --hmmmn

OneLove
01-29-2010, 02:03 AM
My biggest hmmm is;
Who did EJ trust, if : the father was in jail when the baby was born? if this doc is valid:
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/scripts/meeds/qreturn.asp?casenumber=CR2004023070
Where was EJ when she got out of the hosp? Who would she trust enough to stay with? This person needs to be in touch with her, not TS, IMO. She would obviously have trust issues, right now she has transferred the trust to the lawyer, who is not helping find Gabe IMO.


Do you have anything other than this document that leads you to believe Logan was not at the birth? Some of the pics we have seen look to be Logan at the birth and shortly after. Also, I read the document and it says Logan could participate in furloughs. He may have been home more than we know. :)

I agree EJ's atty has not helped find Gabe. I hope it is not because that is her best defense.

DairyGirl
01-29-2010, 02:08 AM
My biggest hmmm is;
Who did EJ trust, if : the father was in jail when the baby was born? if this doc is valid:
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/scripts/meeds/qreturn.asp?casenumber=CR2004023070
Where was EJ when she got out of the hosp? Who would she trust enough to stay with? This person needs to be in touch with her, not TS, IMO. She would obviously have trust issues, right now she has transferred the trust to the lawyer, who is not helping find Gabe IMO.

I must be missing something. I don't see where he was in jail at the time of Gabriel's birth. The most recent entry was Feb. 2009? I admit I don't know how to read these things.

captdj
01-29-2010, 03:55 AM
When I noticed this, my stomach got that fluttery feeling, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. In the text that she sent saying she killed Gabe, she specifically says, she will email Logan the exact location.

Why specifically email? Why not call or text? This to me indicates that she did ditch her phone somewhere, likely resulting in the stray ping in Victoria. In fact, that may have been her last call from that phone, and then she got hold of Tammi from a different phone or the contact with Tammi immediately after Logan was her last contact from that phone.

I can't shake the feeling that this random thought is part of something pretty big, but I can't puzzle out what yet. I had no idea where to put this so it ended up here.


Did Elizabeth "talk "to Tammi at any time after say 11:00 AM on the 27th??
Or was their communications only text and myspace messages??

BeanE
01-29-2010, 08:49 AM
Now I'm even confusing myeself, lol.....Yes i believe TS knew about EJ's trip before she left, since she (Tammi) had a hand (at least) in setting it up. What I was trying to say in my previous post, but never got around to, was that she's not keeping her stories straight. She says one thing in one interview and something else in another interview that contradicts the first thing, then posts on her FB something altogether different.

Her alibis and explanations are so full of holes, it makes me crazy just trying to keep up with all the inconsistencies.

W8nC, do you have something that supports Tammi having a hand in setting up Eliz's trip. The reason I ask, is because after I recently went back through reviewing the case, I couldn't find anything that definitely pinpointed Tammi helping with the trip. I could only find one statement that indicated that Tammi may have even known beforehand about the trip.

I'm trying to keep an eye on this aspect particularly, because it would raise the likelihood of certain other things.

Thanks for all your work on this case!

Prof
01-29-2010, 11:04 AM
I've wondered the same thing! If she is trying to "help" LE, why not get some answers to REAL questions, why ask stupid ones instead. Would EJ know the alleged couple's phone number, even if she made the arrangements herself? Probably not. Who knows phone numbers anymore. You dial a number you see written down somewhere, then it's in your phone forever. You never need to actually know it.

She spends 28 minutes on the phone and doesn't get a single bit of new or useful information! What's the deal with that? Thanks SO much, Tammi, for drawing out the call so we could trace the number of a person we have in custody....yeah, we need to know WHERE she was calling FROM...that helps SO MUCH and we're eternally grateful, lol.

TS has supposedly had THREE conversations with EJ since her arrest, yet she has not asked any pointed questions-- in the first call, any questions she asked were related to clearing her own name --- think about the statements she made during the first call in Florida

Why would she feel the need to state "that's how we met"
To back up the possibility that EJ met some random adoptive parents willing to do it illegally in a park? HUH? That's insane, why back that up, TS?
What other reason would you have? Let's see you need to get that in because if EJ gave her baby away to some random couple in the park, then that let's you off the hook!

IMO and I've stated this since that first interview, TS was in damage control mode, and going over the script they agreed to previously
(IMO EJ did not meet the Smiths that way)

I find it more than coincidental that both EJ and the Smiths were Craigslists users --this is telling
IMO it's more than coincidental in the timing of the nanny ad EJ placed and the Smiths' hooking up with EJ and Gabriel

Why do we believe anything the POI and EJ have said? What are the odds of two people from the same town in AZ meeting in an airport, one wanting to give a baby away and one happening to want a baby? IMO very slimm

What are the chances of TS finding an ad post on CL by EJ since she's obviously quite familiar with placing ads there, and obviously looking for a baby? IMO quite strong, much stronger than the meeting in the airport --

Oh yeah if you listen to that first phone call in Florida, notice how TS starts to say hotel and then ends up saying airport

SallyManda
01-29-2010, 11:27 AM
W8nC, do you have something that supports Tammi having a hand in setting up Eliz's trip. The reason I ask, is because after I recently went back through reviewing the case, I couldn't find anything that definitely pinpointed Tammi helping with the trip. I could only find one statement that indicated that Tammi may have even known beforehand about the trip.

I'm trying to keep an eye on this aspect particularly, because it would raise the likelihood of certain other things.

Thanks for all your work on this case!

If the GPS came from TS I think that says a lot...Not hard evidence I know..but just seems odd.
Why would you give this girl a GPS to go on a trip you weren't involved in?

BeanE
01-29-2010, 11:52 AM
If the GPS came from TS I think that says a lot...Not hard evidence I know..but just seems odd.
Why would you give this girl a GPS to go on a trip you weren't involved in?

I've heard one rumor that Tammi gave the GPS to Eliz. I haven't seen anything to support it. Have you seen something to support it?

SallyManda
01-29-2010, 12:00 PM
I've heard one rumor that Tammi gave the GPS to Eliz. I haven't seen anything to support it. Have you seen something to support it?

Well hence why I said if..I thought I remember reading that in an article somewhere..I'll have to dig. Then again the media hasn't been accurate..so who knows?!
I need to save these things on my computer from now on.

AZlawyer
01-29-2010, 12:07 PM
I must be missing something. I don't see where he was in jail at the time of Gabriel's birth. The most recent entry was Feb. 2009? I admit I don't know how to read these things.

Logan's court records for his 2004 Solicitation of Burglary charges show that he was in jail twice for violating probation: 7/31/06-9/30/06 and 2/18/09-6/18/09. So he was in jail when Gabriel was born.

Prof
01-29-2010, 12:09 PM
My hmmn of the day is -- is it usual practice for a lawyer to send a letter to LE to prove someone is innocent as far as involvement in a case before or after they are charged?
This was reported in the news today
-
I was wondering if AZ Lawyer could shed any light on this move?

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2010/01/28/20100128missingbaby01282010-CR.html

Prof
01-29-2010, 12:11 PM
Would they let Logan out of jail for the birth of his son? As the pics of him with Gabriel as a newborn look as if they are taken in a hospital -- I could be wrong

STEADFAST
01-29-2010, 12:49 PM
My hmmn of the day is -- is it usual practice for a lawyer to send a letter to LE to prove someone is innocent as far as involvement in a case before or after they are charged?
This was reported in the news today
-
I was wondering if AZ Lawyer could shed any light on this move?

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2010/01/28/20100128missingbaby01282010-CR.htmlIs that the right link, Prof? I don't see anything there about a letter or any communication from the S's attorney to LE.

debloree
01-29-2010, 01:09 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/video/#/News/Baby+Gabriel%3A+Persons+of+interest+hire+lawyer/40280768001/35150280001/63955508001

Here's the link. It's a video.

STEADFAST
01-29-2010, 01:14 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/video/#/News/Baby+Gabriel%3A+Persons+of+interest+hire+lawyer/40280768001/35150280001/63955508001

Here's the link. It's a video.

Gotcha. Thanks, deb.

Well now, proof of the S's innocence. Glad that's going to be all cleared up.
Must be a pretty long letter.

BeanE
01-29-2010, 01:21 PM
Gotcha. Thanks, deb.

Well now, proof of the S's innocence. Glad that's going to be all cleared up.
Must be a pretty long letter.

BBM

:floorlaugh:

Kamille
01-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Gotcha. Thanks, deb.

Well now, proof of the S's innocence. Glad that's going to be all cleared up.
Must be a pretty long letter.

How on earth was the lawyer able to get any coherent sentences out of those two to put together a letter? :waitasec:

Bforster
01-29-2010, 04:49 PM
HMMMMMMMMM
Just watched the video:laughitup:

Really????? a letter?????:waitasec::doh:

Well I'm sure the LE will take that into account and believe of thier innocents!!!
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

b4e
01-29-2010, 04:56 PM
Gotcha. Thanks, deb.

Well now, proof of the S's innocence. Glad that's going to be all cleared up.
Must be a pretty long letter.

I wonder if that letter is anything like the letter their civil attorney was working on (over a week ago) to post on the "Fan" page about making false accusations. Surprisingly, the civil attorney's letter never materialized.

danisisa
01-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Sorry.....I can't get off of the carseat thing.. How do we know TS did not by 2 of the same and give whoever who went to SA one to get G? I like my baby stuff to match. What do you think. THey should check her purchases at TOYSRUS and BABIESRUS.

To me TS asking the color confirms if whoever the sent to get G were the ones picking him up. Remember--TS and EJ stopped contact. I think the emails after the 27th were CYA emails to throw anyone off track who looks at them.

W8nC
01-29-2010, 07:23 PM
W8nC, do you have something that supports Tammi having a hand in setting up Eliz's trip. The reason I ask, is because after I recently went back through reviewing the case, I couldn't find anything that definitely pinpointed Tammi helping with the trip. I could only find one statement that indicated that Tammi may have even known beforehand about the trip.

I'm trying to keep an eye on this aspect particularly, because it would raise the likelihood of certain other things.

Thanks for all your work on this case!

BeanF, no, I can't point to any one thing that supports my opinion, but let me think about it a bit and get back to you. There's something....maybe that she knew about the things EJ had sold to raise money for her trip, or when she looked up the info regarding changing jurisdictions and changing SSN/id.....not that I have proof of when she knew that, or looked that up....but maybe I can find something. I believe it for some reason. I just have to find what it was that caused me to believe it.

STEADFAST
01-29-2010, 08:16 PM
BeanF, no, I can't point to any one thing that supports my opinion, but let me think about it a bit and get back to you. There's something....maybe that she knew about the things EJ had sold to raise money for her trip, or when she looked up the info regarding changing jurisdictions and changing SSN/id.....not that I have proof of when she knew that, or looked that up....but maybe I can find something. I believe it for some reason. I just have to find what it was that caused me to believe it.
I do think TS helped EJ leave, and I think she did it because she thought EJ could change jurisdictions and get sole custody of Gabriel in TX. Here's something she said on NG: (BBM, with my translation of Tamminese in blue)

SMITH: Well, OK, in -- from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her -- whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.
[ Note that they would not have even been discussing jurisdictions if they didn't know Logan had joint custody.]

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of -- you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions.

Well, by the next day, after doing research throughout the next day, we realized, Oh, she cannot change jurisdictions. It`s illegal. So immediately, we started, you know, telling her, You need to come back, you can`t change jurisdictions.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

Translation:
So basically, our story is she ran away at a time when we didn't know whether or not she could change jurisdictions. Then she threatened to run away even farther. So we panicked and planned to hide her while she changed jurisdictions to keep her from running. But then, we found out that she couldn't change jurisdictions and told her she might as well come back.

And they expect people to believe there wasn't a plan from the beginning for EJ to go to TX and try to change jurisdictions?

BeanE
01-29-2010, 08:20 PM
BeanF, no, I can't point to any one thing that supports my opinion, but let me think about it a bit and get back to you. There's something....maybe that she knew about the things EJ had sold to raise money for her trip, or when she looked up the info regarding changing jurisdictions and changing SSN/id.....not that I have proof of when she knew that, or looked that up....but maybe I can find something. I believe it for some reason. I just have to find what it was that caused me to believe it.

Thanks, w8nc.

DairyGirl
01-29-2010, 08:23 PM
One thing I wonder is if the Smiths thought that EJ was heading to TN or if that was the original plan? I am terrible with geography so I don't know if San Antonio was in the same direction or if that was the plan and them EJ took off on her own. Maybe she was courting another adoptive family behind the Smiths back.

BeanE
01-29-2010, 08:27 PM
I do think TS helped EJ leave, and I think she did it because she thought EJ could change jurisdictions and get sole custody of Gabriel in TX. Here's something she said on NG: (BBM, with my translation of Tamminese in blue)

SMITH: Well, OK, in -- from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her -- whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.
[ Note that they would not have even been discussing jurisdictions if they didn't know Logan had joint custody.]

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of -- you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions.

Well, by the next day, after doing research throughout the next day, we realized, Oh, she cannot change jurisdictions. It`s illegal. So immediately, we started, you know, telling her, You need to come back, you can`t change jurisdictions.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

Translation:
So basically, our story is she ran away at a time when we didn't know whether or not she could change jurisdictions. Then she threatened to run away even farther. So we panicked and planned to hide her while she changed jurisdictions to keep her from running. But then, we found out that she couldn't change jurisdictions and told her she might as well come back.

And they expect people to believe there wasn't a plan from the beginning for EJ to go to TX and try to change jurisdictions?




All of that easily applies to the time she was already in SA.

I just haven't seen anything that says the Smiths definitely knew she was going to SA, let alone had a hand in planning it.

And, actually, I'm not even sure it matters. It may rack up some more evidence for charges of conspiracy to custodial interference. It still doesn't mean they have any idea of what Eliz later did with Gabe. And that's really what I want to know. What did Eliz do with Gabe?

BeanE
01-29-2010, 08:28 PM
One thing I wonder is if the Smiths thought that EJ was heading to TN or if that was the original plan? I am terrible with geography so I don't know if San Antonio was in the same direction or if that was the plan and them EJ took off on her own. Maybe she was courting another adoptive family behind the Smiths back.

BBM. We need to sleuth that more.

STEADFAST
01-29-2010, 08:48 PM
All of that easily applies to the time she was already in SA.

I just haven't seen anything that says the Smiths definitely knew she was going to SA, let alone had a hand in planning it.

And, actually, I'm not even sure it matters. It may rack up some more evidence for charges of conspiracy to custodial interference. It still doesn't mean they have any idea of what Eliz later did with Gabe. And that's really what I want to know. What did Eliz do with Gabe?

I don't think the Smiths know what EJ did with Gabriel. You're right; there's certainly no evidence that they knew of or had control of anything going on in S.A. And the whole jurisdictional thing could have come up after EJ arrived in S.A., though it seems unlikely to me that it hadn't come up earlier.

LandAuxvasse
01-29-2010, 08:55 PM
One thing I wonder is if the Smiths thought that EJ was heading to TN or if that was the original plan? I am terrible with geography so I don't know if San Antonio was in the same direction or if that was the plan and them EJ took off on her own. Maybe she was courting another adoptive family behind the Smiths back.

I did a google maps from Tempe, AZ to Nashville, TN and EJ would have to have taken a very southern route for it to be "in the same direction"...

Through Albuquerque, Amarillo, OK City would have been the shortest, direct route (about 1700 miles). To get to San Antonio she had to go the southern route which would have been over 1900 miles. Tempe, Tucson, Las Cruces, and then on to San Antonio.

W8nC
01-29-2010, 09:46 PM
I do think TS helped EJ leave, and I think she did it because she thought EJ could change jurisdictions and get sole custody of Gabriel in TX. Here's something she said on NG: (BBM, with my translation of Tamminese in blue)

SMITH: Well, OK, in -- from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her -- whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.
[ Note that they would not have even been discussing jurisdictions if they didn't know Logan had joint custody.]

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of -- you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions.

Well, by the next day, after doing research throughout the next day, we realized, Oh, she cannot change jurisdictions. It`s illegal. So immediately, we started, you know, telling her, You need to come back, you can`t change jurisdictions.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

Translation:
So basically, our story is she ran away at a time when we didn't know whether or not she could change jurisdictions. Then she threatened to run away even farther. So we panicked and planned to hide her while she changed jurisdictions to keep her from running. But then, we found out that she couldn't change jurisdictions and told her she might as well come back.

And they expect people to believe there wasn't a plan from the beginning for EJ to go to TX and try to change jurisdictions?




This line above, in green, I know added a lot to my belief that Tammi knew about Elizabeth's trip to SA before she left. See, I was under the impression that she was admitting it with this statement. It's true, we can't tell what time period Tammi is talking about here. She says "in the beginning", referring to the start of talks between LE, and herself and Jack. She says this is before they knew if she could change jurisdiction...which is when? Did they know this when they picked up Gabe at E's trailer? Or was it around the time they arranged to return Gabe to EJ on the 18th? Or was it sometime after EJ left town? I thought it was early on, before E left town...still looking for why I thought that........

kappy50
01-29-2010, 10:23 PM
It's all about the bus route, which NO ONE knows anything about that.....have you ever wondered about that!

kappy50
01-29-2010, 10:34 PM
what really concerns me...we talk about landfills, hotels, gps, this cell phone and that cell phone...TS this and JS that....but has ANYTHING been documented about the bus trip....I'm telling ya...that is the key!

Prof
01-29-2010, 10:53 PM
The key to what, Kappy? do you think EJ concealed carried Gabriel in a back pack on a crowded bus? I just can't seem to go there, dead or alive :( I think it would be crazy and risky behavior

I do remember that LE stated early on that there was a 3 day gap between the bus and the hostel that they could not fill in - but I have not seen any documentation on when EJ actually checked in to the hostel -- has anyone?

I am interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the bus trip --

kissdegirl
01-29-2010, 11:04 PM
I have wondered about the trip too kappy. My thoughts were that she gave Gabriel to someone in SA, then got on the bus, only to meet them again somewhere else and finish the process. Especially if TS says (and you believe) she heard him in the background after the 27th.

Litlred
01-29-2010, 11:12 PM
While EJ is on the run with Gabriel TS is shopping? If I need to remove this please let me know. I'm 99.9% sure it is her because of the purchase from Seller: raggedyplace. I remember seeing a picture of TS, JS and H in raggedy ann halloween costumes.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tammifaysmith&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This next one looks to be a vehicle, I'm not sure. I need some help with this one.....

Marketplace on Facebook Can her and her father come look at it tomorrow or sometime this week? Thanks, Tammi email tammifaysmith@gmail.com. Marketplace Users ...
apps.facebook.com/marketplace/view/-/1341102732/

W8nC
01-29-2010, 11:58 PM
While EJ is on the run with Gabriel TS is shopping? If I need to remove this please let me know. I'm 99.9% sure it is her because of the purchase from Seller: raggedyplace. I remember seeing a picture of TS, JS and H in raggedy ann halloween costumes.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tammifaysmith&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This next one looks to be a vehicle, I'm not sure. I need some help with this one.....

Marketplace on Facebook Can her and her father come look at it tomorrow or sometime this week? Thanks, Tammi email tammifaysmith@gmail.com. Marketplace Users ...
apps.facebook.com/marketplace/view/-/1341102732/

Great Find!! I agree, this looks like her, based on children's clothing and toys, and the Raggedy Ann costumes (did they really pay $60 for those!!), etc.

vjlaw
01-30-2010, 12:35 AM
It's all about the bus route, which NO ONE knows anything about that.....have you ever wondered about that!

I read a news report from NBC in Miami, in it they mentioned a tip. All the time she was submerged in SA and a tip in Miami Beach in such a short time makes me wonder if it was someone she had talked to on the bus or in the hostel. I know there is the possibility someone saw the news, but it doesn't seem to have had that much exposure at that time, especially when she was clear across the country from where she started. Looks like she could have seen the same news about Gabriel too. The article also said there was no indication she had been travelling with a baby.

Litlred
01-30-2010, 12:58 AM
JM, TPS adoption friend in Austin? (see bottom post) Austin TX? on 12/13-12/18 that is only 1 hr and 20 minutes from San Antonio. The phone # matches. Could this be TPS friend JM? I'm 99.9 sure. This first site has her phone #. When you search the phone # you can find the Austin post. I XXX'd out part of the phone # but they are posted on these public sites.


Janet Morris
The Adoption Place
Nashville, TN
(615) XXX-5153
adoptionplace@aol.com
http://www.onetruegift.com/home-study-providers/tn


hmmmmm......



Re: ANY1 WANT TO SHARE?!
Posted by Janet on 12/8/2009, 9:21 pm, in reply to "ANY1 WANT TO SHARE?!"
64.12.116.76
We are coming in on Wednesday night, the 13th, and arriving into Austin at approximately 10:25 pm. We leave the night of the 18th. We have a private shuttle and may have room. Let me know if you would be interested. I will be at my home number tonight only until 11 pm Central time. The number is 615-XXX-4046 and my cell tomorrow is 615-XXX-5153.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:zW4kDqSBcFwJ:members4.boardhost.com/wyfolm/thread/1260196987.html+%22(615)+473-5153%22&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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I think you all saw this already....

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/41909

Kamille
01-30-2010, 01:13 AM
hmmmm....I wonder if TPS is still in possession of that IPod Touch she bought. An IPod charger was apparently left in EJ's hotel room.

An IPod Touch would have given her internet access wherever there was a free wi fi connection.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:V7Fvb10ElYsJ:www.newspusher.com/EN/post/1263517023-2/EN-/tx-missing-baby-update.html%3FPHPSESSID%3Deea662ecc1e33f6a37937d91 35e497cd+elizabeth+johnson+i+pod+charger&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

DaneBramage
01-30-2010, 01:17 AM
WOW Lilred great post!!

Litlred
01-30-2010, 01:22 AM
hmmmm....I wonder if TPS is still in possession of that IPod Touch she bought. An IPod charger was apparently left in EJ's hotel room.

An IPod Touch would have given her internet access wherever there was a free wi fi connection.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:V7Fvb10ElYsJ:www.newspusher.com/EN/post/1263517023-2/EN-/tx-missing-baby-update.html%3FPHPSESSID%3Deea662ecc1e33f6a37937d91 35e497cd+elizabeth+johnson+i+pod+charger&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Yep, it sure does. I was hoping to find the GPS as well.

Kamille
01-30-2010, 01:27 AM
Apparently the Homegate Suites has free wi fi.

60 Executive Suites with king beds or two double beds. Guest rooms features amenities such as air conditioning, alarm clock radio, coffeetea maker, data ports, direct dial telephone, microwave, refrigerator, mini kitchens, cable TV with HBO and voice mail. Free deluxe breakfast with hot Belgian waffles, fresh fruits, cereals and more; free local calls, free newspaper, free wifi, spacious suites with living area, small kitchen area and the bedroom.

http://www.visitsanantonio.com/visitors/sleep/accommodation-details/index.aspx?id=1441

Litlred
01-30-2010, 01:27 AM
hmmmm....I wonder if TPS is still in possession of that IPod Touch she bought. An IPod charger was apparently left in EJ's hotel room.

An IPod Touch would have given her internet access wherever there was a free wi fi connection.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:V7Fvb10ElYsJ:www.newspusher.com/EN/post/1263517023-2/EN-/tx-missing-baby-update.html%3FPHPSESSID%3Deea662ecc1e33f6a37937d91 35e497cd+elizabeth+johnson+i+pod+charger&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

"The second-generation Apple iPod Touch has it all: music, videos, photos, podcasts, e-mail, Web browsing, Internet radio, games, Nike+, Wi-Fi music downloads, and an App Store for adding thousands of custom features."

http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/apple-ipod-touch-second/4505-6490_7-33248628.html

vjlaw
01-30-2010, 01:28 AM
hmmmm....I wonder if TPS is still in possession of that IPod Touch she bought. An IPod charger was apparently left in EJ's hotel room.

An IPod Touch would have given her internet access wherever there was a free wi fi connection.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:V7Fvb10ElYsJ:www.newspusher.com/EN/post/1263517023-2/EN-/tx-missing-baby-update.html%3FPHPSESSID%3Deea662ecc1e33f6a37937d91 35e497cd+elizabeth+johnson+i+pod+charger&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

And LE said they were trying to find who "gave" her the SA cell phone. I wondered why they knew it was given to her instead of her buying it herself.

Litlred
01-30-2010, 01:29 AM
I-Pod was purchased 12-12-09. How long does it take to ship?

DairyGirl
01-30-2010, 01:38 AM
I-Pod was purchased 12-12-09. How long does it take to ship?

Depends on where it was shipped from. A lot of Ebay's electronics are from China and they take weeks. If it was a US seller it could have come in about a week.

Litlred
01-30-2010, 01:47 AM
Depends on where it was shipped from. A lot of Ebay's electronics are from China and they take weeks. If it was a US seller it could have come in about a week.

Maybe faster this way....


Shipping: $5.50US Postal Service Priority MailSee more services See discounts | See all details
Estimated delivery within 3-4 business days.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320459225939

Litlred
01-30-2010, 01:49 AM
IPOD was from the USA (PLANO IL)

DairyGirl
01-30-2010, 01:54 AM
IPOD was from the USA (PLANO IL)

It went Priority Mail and that is pretty fast, usually 2 or 3 days. She could have gotten it before EJ left. I think that gets you on the internet but it is not a phone.

Prof
01-30-2010, 12:51 PM
While EJ is on the run with Gabriel TS is shopping? If I need to remove this please let me know. I'm 99.9% sure it is her because of the purchase from Seller: raggedyplace. I remember seeing a picture of TS, JS and H in raggedy ann halloween costumes.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tammifaysmith&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This next one looks to be a vehicle, I'm not sure. I need some help with this one.....

Marketplace on Facebook Can her and her father come look at it tomorrow or sometime this week? Thanks, Tammi email tammifaysmith@gmail.com. Marketplace Users ...
apps.facebook.com/marketplace/view/-/1341102732/


GREAT FIND!
Has this Ipod tip been called in?

Litlred
01-30-2010, 12:53 PM
GREAT FIND!
Has this Ipod tip been called in?

I emailed it.

AnnieOakley
01-30-2010, 01:09 PM
I agree with you that the first two don't look like they were taken in the hotel. On Elizabeth's Myspace page there is a picture of her and a younger Gabriel where the headboard and end tables look the same as in pictures 1 and 2.


Had she visited this place (and I do think it's a hotel) BEFORE when he was younger????

sleuth2001
01-30-2010, 01:14 PM
It went Priority Mail and that is pretty fast, usually 2 or 3 days. She could have gotten it before EJ left. I think that gets you on the internet but it is not a phone.

I ordered mine on a saturday and had it by tuesday usually regular mail. I use it for the interenet alot!:croc:

kissdegirl
01-30-2010, 01:55 PM
I ordered mine on a saturday and had it by tuesday usually regular mail. I use it for the interenet alot!:croc:

You can always pay extra for fast/overnight shipping as well.

Amster
01-30-2010, 02:35 PM
I've been looking for some of the earliest media reports on this case....does anyone remember this? Logan knew EJ was going to SA to spend Christmas with friends and he was fine with it?

We had all of the beginning threads. Does anyone know how to find them?

not_my_kids
01-30-2010, 02:57 PM
Amster, who the frick is Josh?

Amster
01-30-2010, 03:05 PM
Amster, who the frick is Josh?

I have NO idea.....:waitasec:

I meant Logan...sorry...:blushing:

time
01-30-2010, 03:07 PM
I've been looking for some of the earliest media reports on this case....does anyone remember this? Logan knew EJ was going to SA to spend Christmas with friends and he was fine with it?

We had all of the beginning threads. Does anyone know how to find them?

I think you meant Logan, not Josh. But, yes, I remember something like that - I'm not sure it was SA though.

BeanE
01-30-2010, 03:20 PM
I've been looking for some of the earliest media reports on this case....does anyone remember this? Logan knew EJ was going to SA to spend Christmas with friends and he was fine with it?

We had all of the beginning threads. Does anyone know how to find them?

I remember that, Amster. It was in several of the early reports, but not quoted from Logan. Then those reports went away. I've wondered if it came from Tammi I've never found anything saying it came from her.

You can use the Gabriel forum advanced search for the word 'visit' as the keyword, and reverse the order of the results so the oldest threads and posts come up first.

There's also this tool from Google labs that's helpful in finding news reports in specific time periods and even on specific dates:

http://newstimeline.googlelabs.com/

Krisy
01-30-2010, 03:58 PM
Yes, the Ipod Touch is super easy to use with WiFi and internet. Works like a little mini netbook. I have one and love it. I've sat at Panera Bread/Mcdonalds and looked up directions and websites...

Prof
01-30-2010, 04:05 PM
I've been looking for some of the earliest media reports on this case....does anyone remember this? Logan knew EJ was going to SA to spend Christmas with friends and he was fine with it?

We had all of the beginning threads. Does anyone know how to find them?

I have this

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Search-for-Tempe-baby-Part-of-Texas-landfill/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:1078I5B8Pj4J:www.abc15.com/mostpopular/story/Tempe-PD-Moms-car-found-baby-missing-for-more/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx+Now,+another+Valley+wo man+is+also+speaking+out,+saying+Johnson+absconded +with+her+son+to+protect+him+from+his+father.+%22S he%27s+completely+innocent,%22+said+Tammi+Fay+Smit h,+who+wanted+to+adopt+Gabriel.+%22She+loves+that+ baby,+and+just+wants+to+find+a+good+home+for+that+ baby.+As+a+mother,+I+commend+her.%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
January 4th article
Tempe police Sgt. Steve Carbajal said Johnson left Arizona with her son Gabriel December 18.

"Everybody knew where she was and that was OK," Carbajal said. "She just wanted to get away for a while and then these series of events happened where it was a concern for the father that she would not show up for a hearing. His fears were confirmed."

captdj
01-30-2010, 05:23 PM
I have this

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Search-for-Tempe-baby-Part-of-Texas-landfill/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:1078I5B8Pj4J:www.abc15.com/mostpopular/story/Tempe-PD-Moms-car-found-baby-missing-for-more/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx+Now,+another+Valley+wo man+is+also+speaking+out,+saying+Johnson+absconded +with+her+son+to+protect+him+from+his+father.+%22S he%27s+completely+innocent,%22+said+Tammi+Fay+Smit h,+who+wanted+to+adopt+Gabriel.+%22She+loves+that+ baby,+and+just+wants+to+find+a+good+home+for+that+ baby.+As+a+mother,+I+commend+her.%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
January 4th article
Tempe police Sgt. Steve Carbajal said Johnson left Arizona with her son Gabriel December 18.

"Everybody knew where she was and that was OK," Carbajal said. "She just wanted to get away for a while and then these series of events happened where it was a concern for the father that she would not show up for a hearing. His fears were confirmed."

Im Confused? :waitasec:
How was it OK if Logan was suppose to have Gabriel that weekend and he goes to pick him up and they're gone??
Tammi mentions that Logan was taking Gabriel to his sister's.... wonder if this started out as who gettin Gabriel for xmas???

Amster
01-30-2010, 05:39 PM
I have this

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Search-for-Tempe-baby-Part-of-Texas-landfill/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:1078I5B8Pj4J:www.abc15.com/mostpopular/story/Tempe-PD-Moms-car-found-baby-missing-for-more/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx+Now,+another+Valley+wo man+is+also+speaking+out,+saying+Johnson+absconded +with+her+son+to+protect+him+from+his+father.+%22S he%27s+completely+innocent,%22+said+Tammi+Fay+Smit h,+who+wanted+to+adopt+Gabriel.+%22She+loves+that+ baby,+and+just+wants+to+find+a+good+home+for+that+ baby.+As+a+mother,+I+commend+her.%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
January 4th article
Tempe police Sgt. Steve Carbajal said Johnson left Arizona with her son Gabriel December 18.

"Everybody knew where she was and that was OK," Carbajal said. "She just wanted to get away for a while and then these series of events happened where it was a concern for the father that she would not show up for a hearing. His fears were confirmed."

Thank you!! In that article, Logan says EJ and Gabe were seen in a park on the 26th and that was after he got the death text from EJ. :waitasec:

I think I'm confusing the heck out of myself. I want Gabriel found safe so bad!

TXHOPE
01-30-2010, 06:23 PM
McQueary says he believes Gabriel is still alive, considering he and Johnson were last seen at a park near Six Flags in San Antonio, Texas on December 26 -- after McQueary received the threatening messages

Thank you!! I was starting to think I imagined this. They were seen at the park on the 26th, correct or was this later proven wrong? Wasn't the text sent on the morning of the 27th :waitasec:?

Krisy
01-30-2010, 06:41 PM
Wanted to add...

That you can use the iPod Touch to send texts too. There is an app you can add on!

Hmmmm....

Amster
01-30-2010, 07:36 PM
McQueary says he believes Gabriel is still alive, considering he and Johnson were last seen at a park near Six Flags in San Antonio, Texas on December 26 -- after McQueary received the threatening messages

Thank you!! I was starting to think I imagined this. They were seen at the park on the 26th, correct or was this later proven wrong? Wasn't the text sent on the morning of the 27th :waitasec:?

I just have no freaking clue! :banghead:

Between the Smiths various lies and reporters sloppy reporting and EJs ever changing story...I can't figure out anything. I DO know that I don't believe anything the Smiths are spewing. Or EJ, either.

TXHOPE
01-30-2010, 07:48 PM
I just have no freaking clue! :banghead:

Between the Smiths various lies and reporters sloppy reporting and EJs ever changing story...I can't figure out anything. I DO know that I don't believe anything the Smiths are spewing. Or EJ, either.

I just checked BeanE's timeline on the 27th and the text was sent on the 27th so if they were seen in the park on the 26th, that's before the text was sent. WTH??????

The media and the Smith have made this really difficult and caused a roller coaster of emotional ups and downs. I change my mind about what happened every other day. I can only imagine what it's doing to Gabriel's family.

not_my_kids
01-30-2010, 07:50 PM
One of the frustrating things for me, that does makes me stop and go , Hmmm? is that no matter what, I have to believe EJ, at least some part of her statements. She either killed him or she gave him away. One or the other has to be true. I just have no idea which one is the truth.

Litlred
01-30-2010, 08:16 PM
Wanted to add...

That you can use the iPod Touch to send texts too. There is an app you can add on!

Hmmmm....

Yes you are correct. I wonder if an IPOD was found on EJ at the time of the arrest. I also wonder if LE can ping an IPOD the way a cell phone can be pinged?

Prof
01-30-2010, 09:02 PM
I have not heard if they found an IPod on EJ (I doubt it), but they did find an Ipod charge in her hotel room

vjlaw
01-30-2010, 09:30 PM
I am not sure where to put this so I guess I'll put it here. In some of the news videos Gabriel is wrapped in what looks like a lonestar state blanket. Is that really a lonestar blanket? Who would wrap him in a lonestar blanket....hmmm.

danisisa
01-30-2010, 11:32 PM
I took the excerpt from her website: http://www.healingwatersaz.com/about.html

T started mentoring with the best of the best in colon therapy, because she strives for perfection. After about a year of mentoring with highly respected colon therapists from Tennessee, Arizona and Florida, T opened her first Colon Hydrotherapy Clinic in Nashville, TN. November of 2004. T then went on to further her education and got her first Certification in Colon Hydrotherapy at The American Institute of Natural Health of California.

Hence the CYA messages on myspace.


I am thinking TS maybe got EJ a job somewhere?

Prof
01-31-2010, 12:52 AM
I am not sure where to put this so I guess I'll put it here. In some of the news videos Gabriel is wrapped in what looks like a lonestar state blanket. Is that really a lonestar blanket? Who would wrap him in a lonestar blanket....hmmm.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmn Is it really? This question might be posted in the questions for the family thread? If Logan does not know, maybe we should start a questions for the POI thread? :angel:

LCoastMom
01-31-2010, 03:33 AM
I was just posting on the woman from Mesa who had been missing but now home, about the news (or rather lack of news) here. I have never seen anything like it. It is frustrating and I have intentionally stayed away from this (relatively) local case because of it.

The local news makes me go hmmmm or more often ARGGGG!!

Just keep praying for Baby Gabriel, I would be climbing the walls waiting for anything from the news.

I was going to bring over the info about Jay J. Armes, otherwise known as "The Investigator," but Bless our Angel beat me to it! But here is a nibble from JJA:

The investigator said he solves cases by following every lead, like the rumor that a woman on the other side of the country adopted a baby named Gabriel the same day Gabriel Johnson went missing. another hmmm?

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/World-renowned-investigator-offers-to-help-find/s_YjDv3DlkWy4sO_Gbc9xw.cspx


Original Post by: Capt DJ How was it OK if Logan was suppose to have Gabriel that weekend and he goes to pick him up and they're gone??
Tammi mentions that Logan was taking Gabriel to his sister's.... wonder if this started out as who gettin Gabriel for xmas???

I admit to being completely out of the loop here, but I thought the original story was she bailed when dad's sister was given custody - by the courts? :waitasec:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TXHOPE
01-31-2010, 12:41 PM
Last night at a party I was really surprised to learn that not everyone knows about Gabriel's case. At the party I was at a table with 6 women, moms in fact, and only 1 of them had heard of Gabriel!!! She from SA. I was so surprised, I thought everyone else had at least seen something on Gabriel. I only live an hour away from San Antonio. This made me think maybe it is possible that a family adopted him and that they really haven't seen it in the media.

kissdegirl
01-31-2010, 12:50 PM
Last night at a party I was really surprised to learn that not everyone knows about Gabriel's case. At the party I was at a table with 6 women, moms in fact, and only 1 of them had heard of Gabriel!!! She from SA. I was so surprised, I thought everyone else had at least seen something on Gabriel. I only live an hour away from San Antonio. This made me think maybe it is possible that a family adopted him and that they really haven't seen it in the media.

This is so sad, and is my experience here in TX too. I have been pleading with my local news to get the story on, and they say "we don't have the staff to cover SA." I'm like, WTH? You can't show a picture of a stolen baby in TX? Rediculous! Hopefully, this PI of Gabe's will bring attention, enough so to get his face out there!

I wonder if the Spanish speaking news stations in South Texas have aired the story? We need to get them on it! Between the staff cleaning the hotel rooms (not trying to sound bad here, it's just likely they were Mexican, because SA is very Mexican), and the other people on the bus, someone saw them.

jenny1976
01-31-2010, 12:53 PM
Last night at a party I was really surprised to learn that not everyone knows about Gabriel's case. At the party I was at a table with 6 women, moms in fact, and only 1 of them had heard of Gabriel!!! She from SA. I was so surprised, I thought everyone else had at least seen something on Gabriel. I only live an hour away from San Antonio. This made me think maybe it is possible that a family adopted him and that they really haven't seen it in the media.

I have the same issue!!!! I can't believe that more people don't know about this case! I have emailed all the big networks complaining that they have not covered this story enough. I sent a "not so nice" message to Nancy Grace, as well.

It is so irritating that NG is talking more about Tiger Woods than Baby Gabriel. Who cares about Tiger Woods? A beautiful baby is MISSING!!!

Ives
01-31-2010, 02:04 PM
I'm wondering outloud here. Could miss Yami, the reporter, have at first thought TS was her "golden ticket" so to speak, and jumped on it? and that is where alot of the mixed reports came from? She was not a POI at first, and seemed to some that she was an "innocent party" with insight on the case. and now we have a big 'ol ball of crap reporting. it sorta snowballed into this I believe. and I wonder, with all this shoddy reporting how much worse will it get?

Prof
01-31-2010, 02:44 PM
Im Confused? :waitasec:
How was it OK if Logan was suppose to have Gabriel that weekend and he goes to pick him up and they're gone??
Tammi mentions that Logan was taking Gabriel to his sister's.... wonder if this started out as who gettin Gabriel for xmas???

Where does Tammi mention that Logan was taking Gabriel to his sister's?

not_my_kids
01-31-2010, 04:07 PM
I was just posting on the woman from Mesa who had been missing but now home, about the news (or rather lack of news) here. I have never seen anything like it. It is frustrating and I have intentionally stayed away from this (relatively) local case because of it.

The local news makes me go hmmmm or more often ARGGGG!!

Just keep praying for Baby Gabriel, I would be climbing the walls waiting for anything from the news.

I was going to bring over the info about Jay J. Armes, otherwise known as "The Investigator," but Bless our Angel beat me to it! But here is a nibble from JJA:

The investigator said he solves cases by following every lead, like the rumor that a woman on the other side of the country adopted a baby named Gabriel the same day Gabriel Johnson went missing. another hmmm?

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/World-renowned-investigator-offers-to-help-find/s_YjDv3DlkWy4sO_Gbc9xw.cspx



I admit to being completely out of the loop here, but I thought the original story was she bailed when dad's sister was given custody - by the courts? :waitasec:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She bailed after she and the father were given joint custody, and in order to escape a court date at which the father likely would have gotten full custody due to her documented mental issues.

BeanE
01-31-2010, 04:17 PM
Where does Tammi mention that Logan was taking Gabriel to his sister's?

Tammi's very first news interview. The video is linked in the Important Links sticky thread, and notated as her first interview.

She was trashing Logan when she said that.

not_my_kids
01-31-2010, 06:22 PM
Tammi's comment from back on the fourteenth of January that their source at FOX News put them in touch with the babysitter. I can't recall the exact quote, but she says that the source (Yami?) put them on the phone with the babysitter.
That reeks. Was this before or after the sitter spoke with LE? Were her official statements and news interviews influenced by Tammi herself? I have wondered about this since the babysitter started yacking her jaws off.

So I guess in general a thing that makes me go hmmm, is the babysitter and how much of her statement is really hers. From her appearances on NG, she seems very easily influenced.

Prof
01-31-2010, 06:29 PM
Yes, we know she spoke to TS before she went on NG, but I believe she called LE and they interviewed her before that happened

Yes, she changes her story -- on NG it was Tylenol, on yesterday's Today Show it was Nyquil

not_my_kids
01-31-2010, 06:43 PM
Thank you Prof for helping at least clear up the sequence of events. I haven't been able to put it in order to where it would stick in my head.

kappy50
01-31-2010, 09:41 PM
The key to what, Kappy? do you think EJ concealed carried Gabriel in a back pack on a crowded bus? I just can't seem to go there, dead or alive :( I think it would be crazy and risky behavior

I do remember that LE stated early on that there was a 3 day gap between the bus and the hostel that they could not fill in - but I have not seen any documentation on when EJ actually checked in to the hostel -- has anyone?

I am interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the bus trip --

Prof...sorry I am late, no power in my area because of the storm in the south...but just think about what you just said...3 day gap..all I am saying is I think that EJ boarded the bus, not with Gabriel, someone else boarded the bus with Gabriel...and not in a backpack...all I am asking from LE or someone, tell me how many people where on that bus, adults and children/infants and tell the times and the places you stopped...that's all...I gave a list of terminals between SA and FL awhile back....gives from SA, LR,Memphis, NASHVILLE, the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida...Now I am no way privy to this or entitled to this by any means...but you have to admit, it just not has come up....

time
01-31-2010, 10:15 PM
Prof...sorry I am late, no power in my area because of the storm in the south...but just think about what you just said...3 day gap..all I am saying is I think that EJ boarded the bus, not with Gabriel, someone else boarded the bus with Gabriel...and not in a backpack...all I am asking from LE or someone, tell me how many people where on that bus, adults and children/infants and tell the times and the places you stopped...that's all...I gave a list of terminals between SA and FL awhile back....gives from SA, LR,Memphis, NASHVILLE, the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida...Now I am no way privy to this or entitled to this by any means...but you have to admit, it just not has come up....

Kappy ... I had read a while back about this route through different states for that busline. I think if there is no evidence contradicting this (which there appears not to be), then your theory is entirely plausible. I also think it is good to entertain such theories because we have to examine our assumptions - and that they are assumptions and not fact. There is a lot we do not know and are filling in, but we do not go back and say it could be 'filled in' other ways.

not_my_kids
01-31-2010, 10:22 PM
If the guy selling tickets remembered EJ, I think he would have recalled a baby. Especially one that would have stuck out a little. I also don't think EJ would have given whoever had him the opportunity to be seen with her. She got rid of him and from the second he was out of her hands, she ran like crazy and only looked back to laugh...IMO.

I'm sure LE knows at least where and when the bus stopped and the number of adults. I don't know if it is possible to know the number of children if they don't require a separate ticket and there isn't video.

time
01-31-2010, 10:34 PM
I don't know, I think the theory is worth considering. I have trouble trying to decide how sophisticated or unsophisticated this whole plan was. It doesn't take much to realize that if someone is going with you on a bus and you don't want to be tracked, then the two of you just keep from being seen together when buying tickets and boarding the bus. This probably didn't happen, but ...

kappy50
01-31-2010, 10:35 PM
Kappy ... I had read a while back about this route through different states for that busline. I think if there is no evidence contradicting this (which there appears not to be), then your theory is entirely plausible. I also think it is good to entertain such theories because we have to examine our assumptions - and that they are assumptions and not fact. There is a lot we do not not and are filling in, but we do not go back and say it could be 'filled in' other ways.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence.....there is a whole lot we don't know, and I am not trying to go back and fill in anything...just a gut thought...

kappy50
01-31-2010, 10:44 PM
If the guy selling tickets remembered EJ, I think he would have recalled a baby. Especially one that would have stuck out a little. I also don't think EJ would have given whoever had him the opportunity to be seen with her. She got rid of him and from the second he was out of her hands, she ran like crazy and only looked back to laugh...IMO.

I'm sure LE knows at least where and when the bus stopped and the number of adults. I don't know if it is possible to know the number of children if they don't require a separate ticket and there isn't video.

NMK...how needy do you think EJ was when she met TS...all she had to do was whine and TS took over the baby...all long story short for sure....so could someone else. Just because I bought a ticket without a infant in my arms, does not mean that child was not nearby....my theory is just that..You may be right about LE (although they have been very mute about it) but who knows about a video....and I'd bet the farm, and it is small no less, they DO know the number of adults/childrens and infants aboard...could be wrong...I'm a dumb hick with a frozen brain right now...

time
01-31-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence.....there is a whole lot we don't know, and I am not trying to go back and fill in anything...just a gut thought...

I wasn't using "fill in" in a negative way. I was simply saying that what you proposed is as valid as saying that Elizabeth did something else.

time
01-31-2010, 10:57 PM
Whew... I hope that made sense Kappy, I see why my first post was confusing, sorry

kappy50
01-31-2010, 11:01 PM
Look..everyone here is trying their best to come up with something that will bring that beautiful baby home. You guys are wonderful and have many wondeful thoughts. I have said from the beginning...something went array in SA...I do believe EJ had a back up plan..and the back up plan involved her ditching her car and taking the bus with little Gabriel. Destination, I do not know...however, I would rather him be in a bus to somewhere USA than a Landfill NO Where USA...although not sure that didn't happen either...

not_my_kids
01-31-2010, 11:19 PM
NMK...how needy do you think EJ was when she met TS...all she had to do was whine and TS took over the baby...all long story short for sure....so could someone else. Just because I bought a ticket without a infant in my arms, does not mean that child was not nearby....my theory is just that..You may be right about LE (although they have been very mute about it) but who knows about a video....and I'd bet the farm, and it is small no less, they DO know the number of adults/childrens and infants aboard...could be wrong...I'm a dumb hick with a frozen brain right now...

You're not a dumb hick, you are attempting to come up with ideas that haven't hit a dead end yet, which doesn't strike me as dumb. (My brain is frozen too, happens for the 6 months that MI calls winter. :crazy:)
However, I don't think that EJ really was that needy. I think she had a plan with some holes in it and used Tammi to fill those holes. Master plan, EJ. Finesse and fine detail, Tammi.
That said, I think it's possible. Not extremely plausible, but in all honesty, the idea that Gabe would still be alive in SA is not all that plausible, but we saw the proof. I think if there was video, LE has it. I will not allow myself to think that they messed up that bad, because if they did, Gabe is as good as gone, IMO. It is possible that someone bought a ticket, held Gabe on their lap and he was never recorded.
I would like to see some official statement that says that other riders and the driver and other terminals along the way have been contacted, but not seeing it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There is a glaring lack of info on this case. JMO.

Prof
02-01-2010, 01:09 AM
Prof...sorry I am late, no power in my area because of the storm in the south...but just think about what you just said...3 day gap..all I am saying is I think that EJ boarded the bus, not with Gabriel, someone else boarded the bus with Gabriel...and not in a backpack...all I am asking from LE or someone, tell me how many people where on that bus, adults and children/infants and tell the times and the places you stopped...that's all...I gave a list of terminals between SA and FL awhile back....gives from SA, LR,Memphis, NASHVILLE, the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida...Now I am no way privy to this or entitled to this by any means...but you have to admit, it just not has come up....

I think this is a plausible theory that could be explored --
Wasn't there a discrepancy between where the bus was to end up, and where EJ ended up?
She could have taken him on that bus, and maybe that is why she took that particular bus? IDK
She could have taken him to some couple in Florida, for instance?
We do not know yet what she did between the 27th and and 29th or 30th--
That's another date I see conflicting reports on--was she arrested in FL on the 29th or 30th? I have seen both as I research through media for LE statements

I think we need to think about this, as perhaps the stay in SA was an attempt to cover their tracks? All we know about SA is what EJ has said, right?

They do have a video of her walking alone from the Motel 6 parking on the 27th, the last day she was in SA, but maybe she had help there?

DairyGirl
02-01-2010, 01:12 AM
I think this is a plausible theory that could be explored --
Wasn't there a discrepancy between where the bus was to end up, and where EJ ended up?
She could have taken him on that bus, and maybe that is why she took that particular bus? IDK
She could have taken him to some couple in Florida, for instance?
We do not know yet what she did between the 27th and and 29th or 30th--
That's another date I see conflicting reports on--was she arrested in FL on the 29th or 30th? I have seen both as I research through media for LE statements

I think we need to think about this, as perhaps the stay in SA was an attempt to cover their tracks? All we know about SA is what EJ has said, right?

They do have a video of her walking alone from the Motel 6 parking on the 27th, the last day she was in SA, but maybe she had help there?

I am pretty sure she was arrested on the 30th because that was the last date she signed onto My Space.

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 02:53 AM
I am pretty sure she was arrested on the 30th because that was the last date she signed onto My Space.

Edit - Never mind, I was wrong, it was the 30th, my dumb self was actually looking at something from the Prime Writer's Network, I know better. My apologies. Feel free to trout me now.

DaneBramage
02-01-2010, 03:26 AM
Great input everybody, and this has me thinking.

What if the exchange took place at the Bus Terminal? EJ gets on one bus and the person with Gabriel gets on another (or in a car). EJ and the baby go in different directions?

Something like a reverse play in football.

DairyGirl
02-01-2010, 03:30 AM
Great input everybody, and this has me thinking.

What if the exchange took place at the Bus Terminal? EJ gets on one bus and the person with Gabriel gets on another. EJ and the baby go in different directions?

Something like a reverse play in football.

Why would the adoptive parents bring their own car seat? Of course EJ could have been lieing about that, too.

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 08:43 AM
We know that Gabriel was photographed on December 26th, 2009. At that point he was in what we assume was EJ's hotel room.
What if it wasn't? What if the whole thing was staged to look like her room? The pictures in prominent display...it almost looks like when you dress a home for sale, that the occupants are still in. Keep it clean, but let it be a little homey, a little lived in. We can't assume that was her room...especially if we choose to believe the babysitter. Maybe those were her momento pics, and she chose to dress them with the pictures of her family in the background.
Hmmmm....

Also, the 26th to 11:45 a.m. the 27th when she pulled in and parked the car to get on the bus, that's a lot of time. She takes those photos in SA, knowing that LE will determine what hotel they were taken in and if they are date stamped, like LE says they are, then she had to have known they would easily fit into a timeline. So, what's to say she didn't take those pics, turn around drive 10 hours one way, dump him or hand him off and then drive back to SA where she gets on the bus. Does it make sense? no. Does anything? Likewise, no. Now, 10 hours with a good radar detector and a good strong of a beast of a car is almost halfway to MI from TX.
(I drove Laredo, TX to Grand Blanc, MI after I got the news that my brother was in the hospital after a seizure. Yes, I played hard and fast with a lot of speed limits, stopped a grand total of twice for anything besides gas and chugged a lot of Red Bull, but I made it in 22 hours, 17 minutes. I think EJ could make the same kind of time with the right motivation.)
Hmmmm

ETA: Also makes me wonder if the hotel room swap was the official plan...ever tried to print a hotel room? It's not an envious job and by the time they realized which prints were unknown, it would be months down the road.

Krisy
02-01-2010, 10:17 AM
I was watching a show called, I almost got away with it. On the show, this man would buy a bus ticket to a location...BUT then he would get off half way there and hop a different bus to a different location to throw people off his trail.

Any chance EJ could have done something similar?

captdj
02-01-2010, 10:19 AM
NMK...how needy do you think EJ was when she met TS...all she had to do was whine and TS took over the baby...all long story short for sure....so could someone else. Just because I bought a ticket without a infant in my arms, does not mean that child was not nearby....my theory is just that..You may be right about LE (although they have been very mute about it) but who knows about a video....and I'd bet the farm, and it is small no less, they DO know the number of adults/childrens and infants aboard...could be wrong...I'm a dumb hick with a frozen brain right now...

At motel 6 the manager talked about the the video and EJ sat in chair for about 5 minutes then exited the car and walked across the street to the bus terminal. No mention from the bus station or the hotel about a child....but its a really good thought and doesnt hurt to look at bus stations for Gabriel leaving and going another direction on this bus or any bus...

Another Hmmmm for me is why did she get another hotel room for 12/26 when she had a paid one next door....
I think this day/ or night was the beginning of a new life....so she thought

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 10:25 AM
At motel 6 the manager talked about the the video and EJ sat in chair for about 5 minutes then exited the car and walked across the street to the bus terminal. No mention from the bus station or the hotel about a child....but its a really good thought and doesnt hurt to look at bus stations for Gabriel leaving and going another direction on this bus or any bus...

Another Hmmmm for me is why did she get another hotel room for 12/26 when she had a paid one next door....
I think this day/ or night was the beginning of a new life....so she thought
BBM
Stage dressing?

captdj
02-01-2010, 10:29 AM
We know that Gabriel was photographed on December 26th, 2009. At that point he was in what we assume was EJ's hotel room.
What if it wasn't? What if the whole thing was staged to look like her room? The pictures in prominent display...it almost looks like when you dress a home for sale, that the occupants are still in. Keep it clean, but let it be a little homey, a little lived in. We can't assume that was her room...especially if we choose to believe the babysitter. Maybe those were her momento pics, and she chose to dress them with the pictures of her family in the background.
Hmmmm....

Also, the 26th to 11:45 a.m. the 27th when she pulled in and parked the car to get on the bus, that's a lot of time. She takes those photos in SA, knowing that LE will determine what hotel they were taken in and if they are date stamped, like LE says they are, then she had to have known they would easily fit into a timeline. So, what's to say she didn't take those pics, turn around drive 10 hours one way, dump him or hand him off and then drive back to SA where she gets on the bus. Does it make sense? no. Does anything? Likewise, no. Now, 10 hours with a good radar detector and a good strong of a beast of a car is almost halfway to MI from TX.
(I drove Laredo, TX to Grand Blanc, MI after I got the news that my brother was in the hospital after a seizure. Yes, I played hard and fast with a lot of speed limits, stopped a grand total of twice for anything besides gas and chugged a lot of Red Bull, but I made it in 22 hours, 17 minutes. I think EJ could make the same kind of time with the right motivation.)
Hmmmm

ETA: Also makes me wonder if the hotel room swap was the official plan...ever tried to print a hotel room? It's not an envious job and by the time they realized which prints were unknown, it would be months down the road.

Do we know what time she checked into Quality Inn on 12/26 this would eliminate some of the distance she could travel?

Ives
02-01-2010, 10:31 AM
Not trying to discount the Theory that Gabe was on the bus, BUT EJ is White, she stuck out like a sore thumb, In my small world, my kids are half black, so they are Tan. and when I go to the grocery store, I mostly see hispanic babies, because of the area I am in. That said, I am always surprised how white my sisters children are when I see them every few months. So IMOO, I think a little white baby would have stuck out just as bad as EJ did. especially too hispanics, who work for that bus line, and see mostly hispanics board those buses.

The Guy that sold EJ the Ticket also stated that she was the ONLY white person on the bus. NOw can a hispanic baby be as white as a white baby? I am sure there are some, even some with blue eyes and blonde hair, so if he was on the bus, he could have just been thought to be hispanic, without further thought KWIM? also, this theory, would bring yet another person into the mix, and that person would be hispanic.

OneLove
02-01-2010, 10:32 AM
You're not a dumb hick, you are attempting to come up with ideas that haven't hit a dead end yet, which doesn't strike me as dumb. (My brain is frozen too, happens for the 6 months that MI calls winter. :crazy:)
However, I don't think that EJ really was that needy. I think she had a plan with some holes in it and used Tammi to fill those holes. Master plan, EJ. Finesse and fine detail, Tammi. That said, I think it's possible. Not extremely plausible, but in all honesty, the idea that Gabe would still be alive in SA is not all that plausible, but we saw the proof. I think if there was video, LE has it. I will not allow myself to think that they messed up that bad, because if they did, Gabe is as good as gone, IMO. It is possible that someone bought a ticket, held Gabe on their lap and he was never recorded.
I would like to see some official statement that says that other riders and the driver and other terminals along the way have been contacted, but not seeing it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There is a glaring lack of info on this case. JMO.

I do believe when these two met up, it created the perfect storm of personality disorders.

I also am holding fast to the hope that LE knows much much more than we do.

I do believe when Tammi could not have Gabriel herself, she excused every action from that point on as "protecting that baby". Her every word and lie since then seems to back that up, until she started doing the cha-cha. (cover her arse). I believe her self-righteousness and belief that God approves HER lies while condemning her "detractors" as evil-doers supports that.

There MUST be a reason why LE continued for so long to say they believed Gabriel is alive. I want to believe there is more reason than coincidence that Jack's friend in SA was investigated, like maybe phone records showing some significant conversation between them during the time in question. I hope that friend is more loyal to the truth than to friends who lie. I also hope there are computer/phone records showing conversation with 'alternative' domestic violence 'shelters', maybe in Victoria, that will eventually pan out.

Personally, I believe in the early interview when Tammi is asked why she lied about the Craig Cherry fiasco, she said "just pray" and then referenced "protecting" someone; I believe that to be Gabriel. I believe every step she has taken she feels has the approval of God Almighty, along with the approval of a vast fundamentalist evangelical network of likeminded people. I believe these people will continue forever to tell Tammi, but not Logan, that "God knows right where that lil baby is" as a way to reinforce that she did the right thing. I am hoping that means that someone knows where Gabriel is and that he is being well-cared for.

I will continue to wait for the good news of Gabriel coming home, and hope that is soon. Blessings to Logan and his loving family.

This is my theory, all my opinion only, I'm certainly not implying that "God is on my side" to support it. :furious:

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Elizabeth is captured on surveillance video driving into the parking lot of the Motel 6 at approximately 11:45am.

Elizabeth sits in the car alone for approximately 5 to 15 minutes.

At approximately 12:00pm, Elizabeth walks across the street to a Tornado Bus station.

Elizabeth purchases a one way ticket to Fort Lauderdale FL for $180, using the false name 'Elizabeth Jones'.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline - Sunday, December 27, 2009

The above is taken from the timelines kept by BeanE (sleuther of the year, as far as I am concerned)
This seems that if she had Gabe in that car or he were with her at any part of the bus boarding....LE would have mentioned it. That's why I find it so highly unlikely that she handed him off at the bus station. They have video. If they had video of Gabe on the 27th, they wouldn't be telling the public that they have no proof of anything after the 26th. Not in a case where they have requested help.

captdj
02-01-2010, 11:09 AM
I do believe when these two met up, it created the perfect storm of personality disorders.

I also am holding fast to the hope that LE knows much much more than we do.

I do believe when Tammi could not have Gabriel herself, she excused every action from that point on as "protecting that baby". Her every word and lie since then seems to back that up, until she started doing the cha-cha. (cover her arse). I believe her self-righteousness and belief that God approves HER lies while condemning her "detractors" as evil-doers supports that.

There MUST be a reason why LE continued for so long to say they believed Gabriel is alive. I want to believe there is more reason than coincidence that Jack's friend in SA was investigated, like maybe phone records showing some significant conversation between them during the time in question. I hope that friend is more loyal to the truth than to friends who lie. I also hope there are computer/phone records showing conversation with 'alternative' domestic violence 'shelters', maybe in Victoria, that will eventually pan out.

Personally, I believe in the early interview when Tammi is asked why she lied about the Craig Cherry fiasco, she said "just pray" and then referenced "protecting" someone; I believe that to be Gabriel. I believe every step she has taken she feels has the approval of God Almighty, along with the approval of a vast fundamentalist evangelical network of likeminded people. I believe these people will continue forever to tell Tammi, but not Logan, that "God knows right where that lil baby is" as a way to reinforce that she did the right thing. I am hoping that means that someone knows where Gabriel is and that he is being well-cared for.

I will continue to wait for the good news of Gabriel coming home, and hope that is soon. Blessings to Logan and his loving family.

This is my theory, all my opinion only, I'm certainly not implying that "God is on my side" to support it. :furious:

I have wondered about a regilious group protecting them also... and Tammi's fb message to Pray for Gabriel... who was that message written for....I found some references to a church in SA from Tammi FB friends

TXHOPE
02-01-2010, 11:25 AM
Elizabeth is captured on surveillance video driving into the parking lot of the Motel 6 at approximately 11:45am.

Elizabeth sits in the car alone for approximately 5 to 15 minutes.

At approximately 12:00pm, Elizabeth walks across the street to a Tornado Bus station.

Elizabeth purchases a one way ticket to Fort Lauderdale FL for $180, using the false name 'Elizabeth Jones'.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline - Sunday, December 27, 2009 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4751820&postcount=1)

The above is taken from the timelines kept by BeanE (sleuther of the year, as far as I am concerned)
This seems that if she had Gabe in that car or he were with her at any part of the bus boarding....LE would have mentioned it. That's why I find it so highly unlikely that she handed him off at the bus station. They have video. If they had video of Gabe on the 27th, they wouldn't be telling the public that they have no proof of anything after the 26th. Not in a case where they have requested help.

While any theories are good to throw out there and appreciated I find this one highly unlikely as well. Why would they board a bus together only to separate? They might as well separate then and avoid a smaller chance of getting caught together. I don't think they would travel together.

kissdegirl
02-01-2010, 11:44 AM
While any theories are good to throw out there and appreciated I find this one highly unlikely as well. Why would they board a bus together only to separate? They might as well separate then and avoid a smaller chance of getting caught together. I don't think they would travel together.

Anything goes, right? I still think the POI's went to SA, and the exchange took place in a park (that way they couldn't be caught lying on a polygraph...half-truths). I think they brought a carseat, and after the exhange, either they or EJ drove...perhaps to a truck stop, and may have tossed that phone onto a semi or pickup loaded with a haul of junk. You see those all over here in TX. I think of that nudge when interviewed about Victoria, and I still think it was an "see, it worked to throw them off" nudge. Like "I told you so TS" from JS. The POI could have left that day, the day EJ checked into the other hotel, so they would have a head start. As the father of "H" has said, and I have mentioned before, I think if they sent EJ East, we need to look West. It makes perfect sense to me that the POI would have gone back West, and hidden him nearby.

Of course, if they took him somewhere, they would need another carseat to show the media that they still have it...sooooo....I feel there is proof somewhere, maybe video or giftcard used for buying another seat for Gabriel...probably the one he has with Gabriel nowl, and the one they took to SA, the one in the pictures, they took back to their home to cover their arses. IMO.

captdj
02-01-2010, 11:58 AM
Anything goes, right? I still think the POI's went to SA, and the exchange took place in a park (that way they couldn't be caught lying on a polygraph...half-truths). I think they brought a carseat, and after the exhange, either they or EJ drove...perhaps to a truck stop, and may have tossed that phone onto a semi or pickup loaded with a haul of junk. You see those all over here in TX. I think of that nudge when interviewed about Victoria, and I still think it was an "see, it worked to throw them off" nudge. Like "I told you so TS" from JS. The POI could have left that day, the day EJ checked into the other hotel, so they would have a head start. As the father of "H" has said, and I have mentioned before, I think if they sent EJ East, we need to look West. It makes perfect sense to me that the POI would have gone back West, and hidden him nearby.

Of course, if they took him somewhere, they would need another carseat to show the media that they still have it...sooooo....I feel there is proof somewhere, maybe video or giftcard used for buying another seat for Gabriel...probably the one he has with Gabriel nowl, and the one they took to SA, the one in the pictures, they took back to their home to cover their arses. IMO.

I wish we knew a little bit more about that phone.... how did Elizabeth Text Tammi on the 27th... Tammi states this is the day EJ went missing and that she wouldnt talk to her just communciated by texting...WHY??? who really doing the texting if the phone is not with Elizabeth??
Could Tammi/LE determine from the text its source...was it from EJ s phone? Then when she was in Miami they communicated by myspace...
Somehow this way of communicating has me stumped and is important and has reason.... JMO

BeanE
02-01-2010, 12:14 PM
I wish we knew a little bit more about that phone.... how did Elizabeth Text Tammi on the 27th... Tammi states this is the day EJ went missing and that she wouldnt talk to her just communciated by texting...WHY??? who really doing the texting if the phone is not with Elizabeth??
Could Tammi/LE determine from the text its source...was it from EJ s phone? Then when she was in Miami they communicated by myspace...
Somehow this way of communicating has me stumped and is important and has reason.... JMO

Personally, I don't think Eliz texted, called, or contacted anyone after her texts and call to Logan on Dec 27 until she arrived in Miami Beach on Dec 29 and used a computer at the hostel.

JOSTAD: Well, also, Tammi, were you exchanging any kind of messages, whether it was e-mails, IMs, FaceBook messages? Were you in contact with Elizabeth Johnson during that time after she left San Antonio?

SMITH: Yes. Like, I`ve got some MySpace here. You know, December 29th, I say, I believe in my heart that you would never hurt him, but detectives have recordings — your reporting (ph) that you killed the baby. And it says, We are also distraught. We love Gabriel and you. And it goes on to talk about, The lead detective of this case really feels for you and he wants to help you. You can call Detective Aguilera (ph), and it gives his phone number. He truly wants to help you.

I think in the beginning Tammi thought she could convince everyone of certain lies, and as LE found her out, and it's been exposed in the press, she became more truthful, and that her later statements are closer to the truth.

She couldn't maintain, e.g., that she heard Gabe on the phone on Dec 27, or that Eliz had texted her after texting/calling Logan. So bit by bit she's dropped out little snippets of more truthful information, such as that above, which looks to me like her way of admitting that it was actually Dec 29, and not Dec 27, that Eliz texted her that she had not harmed Gabe.

Not sure I explained my thoughts clearly - need my second cup.

Concernedmomarizona
02-01-2010, 12:48 PM
New story on fox news:
"According to an eyewitness Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, was in the company of a Hispanic male in his mid to late 20's at least 2 times. The witness also tells us that during one of those meetings a couple in their late 30's was also with them."

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

kissdegirl
02-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Video
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml

Who Did Baby Gabriel's Mother Meet With While In San Antonio
New details in the search for Baby Gabriel Johnson have been uncovered by Fox News at Nine. According to an eyewitness Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, was in the company of a Hispanic male in his mid to late 20's at least 2 times. The witness also tells us that during one of those meetings a couple in their late 30's was also with them.
Federal and Local authorities have not given new information in the case. San Antonio Police Chief William McManus says that so far this investigation is still a missing person case. Who Did Baby Gabriel's Mother Meet With While In San Antonio Monday, February 1 2010, 09:55 AM CST

kissdegirl
02-01-2010, 12:51 PM
New story on fox news:
"According to an eyewitness Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, was in the company of a Hispanic male in his mid to late 20's at least 2 times. The witness also tells us that during one of those meetings a couple in their late 30's was also with them."

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

oops...we posted at the same time.

I wonder if this is going to be acknowledged by LE? Very very interesting if true!

Concernedmomarizona
02-01-2010, 12:55 PM
oops...we posted at the same time.

I wonder if this is going to be acknowledged by LE? Very very interesting if true!

I took this as good news and, if true, indicates it is possible EJ did not kill Gabriel and that her story about a couple may have some truth to it.

STEADFAST
02-01-2010, 01:01 PM
oops...we posted at the same time.

I wonder if this is going to be acknowledged by LE? Very very interesting if true!

That is interesting and hope inspiring. However, I'm a little skeptical of stories from Yami. I sure hope LE does come out give some information very early this week, like was promised in the video.

Prof
02-01-2010, 01:10 PM
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The witness has her meeting with a couple in their late thirties on Christmas Day, and the video showed one online posting on the 24th saying that she was excited to start her new life - this is the first I have seen this posting -- has anyone else seen this internet posting? The video shows it on MS --

hmm I wonder who the younger male is --
Thanks concernedmomarizona!

kissdegirl
02-01-2010, 01:12 PM
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The witness has her meeting with a couple in their late thirties on Christmas Day, and the video showed one online posting on the 24th saying that she was excited to start her new life - this is the first I have seen this posting -- has anyone else seen this internet posting? The video does not state myspace -- looking at it again

hmm I wonder who the younger male is --

Could it be the one LE was interviewing with connections to the S's? Maybe this is why the S's felt it was time to get an attorney and shut up?

Prof
02-01-2010, 01:14 PM
They are still looking for the diaper bag, and maybe that's another reason for the landfill search? hmmn
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Prof
02-01-2010, 01:17 PM
Could it be the one LE was interviewing with connections to the S's? Maybe this is why the S's felt it was time to get an attorney and shut up?

Hi Kissdegirl --I must have missed that tidbit -- LE was interviewing someone with connections to the S'? I would love this be true, because it sounds like a lead to find Gabriel -- where can I find this news about LE interviewing someone in SA with connections to ths S'? TIA!

BeanE
02-01-2010, 01:19 PM
That is interesting and hope inspiring. However, I'm a little skeptical of stories from Yami. I sure hope LE does come out give some information very early this week, like was promised in the video.

I'm skeptical too until we get something giving it credibility. However, this may align with the market El Mercado that I previously posted about.

BeanE
02-01-2010, 01:22 PM
Could it be the one LE was interviewing with connections to the S's? Maybe this is why the S's felt it was time to get an attorney and shut up?

Has that connection been substantiated in a news article? I've only seen it in that paid blog, which is known for its inaccuracies regarding this case.

kissdegirl
02-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Has that connection been substantiated in a news article? I've only seen it in that paid blog, which is known for its inaccuracies regarding this case.

That's the only place I've seen it...so I appologize. I had to go back and see where that info came from. Interesting nonetheless. I hope LE gives us some real info today, so we can theorize more accurately, ;)

BeanE
02-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Just noticed the reporter said 're-visiting witnesses'.

I know... I'm obsessive...

Prof
02-01-2010, 01:29 PM
I was watching a show called, I almost got away with it. On the show, this man would buy a bus ticket to a location...BUT then he would get off half way there and hop a different bus to a different location to throw people off his trail.

Any chance EJ could have done something similar?


Something like this is possible, but why a bus ticket to FL if you are going to FL; why not Mexico or CA? an opposite direction

I think there were some choices like this made though, as NMK suggested, the hotel room for the handoff to make dusting for prints almost impossible --

Kat101
02-01-2010, 01:30 PM
i found this alittle interesting

http://babyselling.com/bryn/2008/01/14/

has this has been found already

sleuth2001
02-01-2010, 01:33 PM
I am on my lunch break and came home to see the news. I am so excited! Now there has got to be some video somewhere of these people. I am sure EJ didn't just meet them outside all the time. And she was seen with the hispanic male 2 times...doesn't mention if baby gabriel was present. If not then there is possible another babysitter out there OR Analisa may have watched him more than once. Analisa is hispanic as well so she may even know this person and she could be somewhat of a decoy...(never thought she was actually lying just embelishing a bit)...but it is possible since she has inconsistences in her story. With this case anything is possible. I doubt the couple is hispanic because Baby Gabriel would stick out like a sore thumb with them....Oh I am so praying! :praying:

Prof
02-01-2010, 01:35 PM
At motel 6 the manager talked about the the video and EJ sat in chair for about 5 minutes then exited the car and walked across the street to the bus terminal. No mention from the bus station or the hotel about a child....but its a really good thought and doesnt hurt to look at bus stations for Gabriel leaving and going another direction on this bus or any bus...

Another Hmmmm for me is why did she get another hotel room for 12/26 when she had a paid one next door....
I think this day/ or night was the beginning of a new life....so she thought


Assuming that the info on the hotels is true--
If she met with a couple on Christmas Day, but waited for the 26th for the handoff, I could see her wanting to stay in another room the night of the 26th for a few reasons; one reason would be that she did think that people in AZ were on to her whereabouts-- another could be that she gave that room to the adoptive parents for some reason and wanted to be in another hotel just to separate herself, or maybe she just could not be in the room she stayed in with Gabriel for another day after she gave him away?

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 01:47 PM
site:craigslist.org 623-687-1887 - Google Search

This will go to google search results. There is no cache...why is Jack selling anything in Nashville recently, especially on craigslist. That is their number, confirmed by reverse quintiple checking on the other known Tammi and Jack postings...
Hmmmm.

Should this be submitted, I thought Jack had said it was quite a while since he was in the Nashville area.
The add is from November 27, 2009.

$2500 seems to be their going price, it's what they wanted for the massage bed and the paper folder. Interesting to note that the ad from Nashville did not include Tammi's name at all, but did include both cell #'s. Was there some reason Tammi did not need her phone at this time? Like maybe out of the country...hmmm.

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 01:55 PM
Just noticed the reporter said 're-visiting witnesses'.

I know... I'm obsessive...
One of your more endearing qualities. :dance:

I am finding myself obsessing over little tiny things too, you are not alone.

vjlaw
02-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Do we know if the picture with Gabriel wrapped in the blanket came from the camera that was on Elizabeth when she was arrested? The blanket looks like it is a pattern of the lonestar state flag. Are there any Texans here who thinks it looks like that. It is shown in the video. Maybe a proud new Texan?? They show the picture of Gabriel in that blanket and I have never heard if it is in Tammi's pictures or on Elizabeth's camera.

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Do we know if the picture with Gabriel wrapped in the blanket came from the camera that was on Elizabeth when she was arrested? The blanket looks like it is a pattern of the lonestar state flag. Are there any Texans here who thinks it looks like that. It is shown in the video. Maybe a proud new Texan?? They show the picture of Gabriel in that blanket and I have never heard if it is in Tammi's pictures or on Elizabeth's camera.

I believe that was taken before she ever disappeared, since that pic was in some of the initial news articles.

vjlaw
02-01-2010, 02:04 PM
I believe that was taken before she ever disappeared, since that pic was in some of the initial news articles.

Was it from Tammi's pictures?

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 02:18 PM
Was it from Tammi's pictures? I think so, but don't hold me to that.

hoppyfrog
02-01-2010, 02:21 PM
Dearest Posters:

Please keep this thread on-topic: "Things That Make You Go Hmmmmm...."

As STEADFAST put it in the first post: "This thread is for small details of the case that strike you as hinky, odd, intriguing, contradictory, underappreciated, too coincidental, too random, etc."

Thanks!

Hoppy

TXHOPE
02-01-2010, 02:22 PM
They are still looking for the diaper bag, and maybe that's another reason for the landfill search? hmmn
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Maybe or maybe she gave the bag to whoever she handed Gabriel off to. Wow, if this story is correct that really does give me hope that he is alive. Trying not to get too excited though. It maybe another up and down thing with the media.

OneLove
02-01-2010, 03:12 PM
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The witness has her meeting with a couple in their late thirties on Christmas Day, and the video showed one online posting on the 24th saying that she was excited to start her new life - this is the first I have seen this posting -- has anyone else seen this internet posting? The video shows it on MS --

hmm I wonder who the younger male is --
Thanks concernedmomarizona!

What would LE have to do to get the records of all customers who stayed at that hotel on Christmas day? Maybe she simply met an innocent couple who felt for her being alone with a baby on Christmas? It seems that contacting each person who stayed there at that time might turn up some kind of detail that would help. I wonder if the mid-20's man worked at the hotel.

ETA: Sorry if this has already been covered, but did that hotel offer a breakfast buffet with room?

vjlaw
02-01-2010, 03:18 PM
I think so, but don't hold me to that.

That's just one of those little things that makes me go hmmmm.....Why would someone from Arizona wrap Gabriel in what looks like a blanket with the lone star.

Kat101
02-01-2010, 03:23 PM
i found this alittle interesting

http://babyselling.com/bryn/2008/01/14/

has this has been found already


Can someone please help me research this or let me know if it has been covered yet? i have found this womans fb page and others associated with this article.i gives a big insight into things i didnt know really was going on and this could be what EJ had turned to?

OneLove
02-01-2010, 03:25 PM
I have wondered about a regilious group protecting them also... and Tammi's fb message to Pray for Gabriel... who was that message written for....I found some references to a church in SA from Tammi FB friends

In addition to the church in SA, I believe there are some personal connections to churchs in Tn and KY that gospel recording artists are connected to.

I believe also that somewhere in volumes of reading material about Fay Yagers 'underground' there were references to the evangelical fundamentalist churches participation in hiding people in custody cases.

It is very interesting in a "things that make you go hmmm..." kind of way that the more "prayerful" people who post on Tammi's own sites tend to comfort HER with comments about God taking care of Gabriel now. I used to follow with a msg to them (before I was deleted, haha) that if they were sincere about that, they might want to post a message of comfort and encouragement on Gabiel's family's site too. Never saw it happen. Hmmmm......

vjlaw
02-01-2010, 03:50 PM
Can someone please help me research this or let me know if it has been covered yet? i have found this womans fb page and others associated with this article.i gives a big insight into things i didnt know really was going on and this could be what EJ had turned to?

One thing that made me go hmmmm... the state of conception was mentioned. In an article about Elizabeth's life, it was mentioned that Gabriel was conceived in Arkansas. I thought that a little odd someone would mention that in an article in that way.

Kat101
02-01-2010, 04:17 PM
One thing that made me go hmmmm... the state of conception was mentioned. In an article about Elizabeth's life, it was mentioned that Gabriel was conceived in Arkansas. I thought that a little odd someone would mention that in an article in that way.

thanks i didnt even noice that...hmmm

AZlawyer
02-01-2010, 04:41 PM
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The witness has her meeting with a couple in their late thirties on Christmas Day, and the video showed one online posting on the 24th saying that she was excited to start her new life - this is the first I have seen this posting -- has anyone else seen this internet posting? The video shows it on MS --

hmm I wonder who the younger male is --
Thanks concernedmomarizona!

I didn't see that 12/24 posting on MS, but it was obvious she had posted something about a "new life," because one of her friends posted a comment on her page--"tell me about your new life!" or something similar--right about that same time.

danisisa
02-01-2010, 06:36 PM
I am thinking that Ej threw her copy of the adoption documents away..Hence part of the text to Logan. I think POI's purchased another matching car seat. TS would not want the car seats not to match. EJ had G in a bigger car seat, not the infant one. Hence, her comment of they brought the wrong size carseat...But, TS had the infant one. I also think, this couple is holding G for the SMiths until things calm down. With them selling so many things, who knows, maybe they were planning to move the business to another location or open one at another location where G is. TS seems the type not to give up. What she wants is what she gets...Just a theory..What about swiss bank accounts.....

kissdegirl
02-01-2010, 06:39 PM
I am thinking that Ej threw her copy of the adoption documents away..Hence part of the text to Logan. I think POI's purchased another matching car seat. TS would not want the car seats not to match. EJ had G in a bigger car seat, not the infant one. Hence, her comment of they brought the wrong size carseat...But, TS had the infant one. I also think, this couple is holding G for the SMiths until things calm down. With them selling so many things, who knows, maybe they were planning to move the business to another location or open one at another location where G is. TS seems the type not to give up. What she wants is what she gets...Just a theory..What about swiss bank accounts.....

I was thinking about Swiss accounts too...and wire money transfers, and Cayman banks. There are so many possibilities to hide money.

danisisa
02-01-2010, 06:43 PM
I was thinking about Swiss accounts too...and wire money transfers, and Cayman banks. There are so many possibilities to hide money.

I sent the Swiss thing into LE. Bank transactions don't lie.

yosande
02-02-2010, 01:27 AM
here is a HHMMMMMM- Tammi is selling a sink posted on the 18th of Dec. (right before EJ left) Is that because she is trying to get money to give to EJ?? The Smiths have plenty of money, but if they had given EJ a large amount of money say $500.00 (just so happens that is the amount she is asking for a $2000.00 sink) then it might raise a flag,LE could trace the bank withdraws, but this way it is untraceable cash??

From Tammis FB~~
http://www.facebook.com//profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=1255743965448&id=1585061919#/photo.php?pid=558954&id=1585061919&fbid=1228661528404

I do hope LE has the sink now as there may have been a more sinister reason for selliing it. moo

claudicici
02-02-2010, 02:02 AM
I have not read the entire thread so excuse me if this has been posted....but TS on Nany Grace tonight made me go hhhhhhhmmmmmm BIG TIME when all of a sudden she mentions that EJ supposedly told her during the alleged phone call to look at 3 PEOPLE that are out of the country?...did I hear that right?...as more news comes out she just thinks she's slick to weave it into her lies?....I am getting more and more hopeful that gabe is alive.I think he is in Mexico.

DairyGirl
02-02-2010, 02:14 AM
I have not read the entire thread so excuse me if this has been posted....but TS on Nany Grace tonight made me go hhhhhhhmmmmmm BIG TIME when all of a sudden she mentions that EJ supposedly told her during the alleged phone call to look at 3 PEOPLE that are out of the country?...did I hear that right?...as more news comes out she just thinks she's slick to weave it into her lies?....I am getting more and more hopeful that gabe is alive.I think he is in Mexico.

What she said was, there are 3 people out of the country that she is concerned about or something like that. We discussed this in the NG thread.

claudicici
02-02-2010, 02:29 AM
...I'm going to try to find that thread now...

Cher352
02-02-2010, 02:48 AM
Thing that makes me go hmmm....tonight is:

Why if LE have an eyewitness to these 3 people did they not give out more info on their description or even a sketch? Do you think LE is bluffing hoping to get someone to come forward with a confession or are they that close?

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 03:05 AM
Thing that makes me go hmmm....tonight is:

Why if LE have an eyewitness to these 3 people did they not give out more info on their description or even a sketch? Do you think LE is bluffing hoping to get someone to come forward with a confession or are they that close?

I have really started to wonder if they're close. If these people are with Gabriel, out of the country, wouldn't it take law enforcement some time to get things in place? They couldn't just barge into another country, right? I don't know. Grasping at straws. They said they would be ready to talk this week....well they need to! Like yesterday!

stormmolly
02-02-2010, 03:26 AM
I have not read the entire thread so excuse me if this has been posted....but TS on Nany Grace tonight made me go hhhhhhhmmmmmm BIG TIME when all of a sudden she mentions that EJ supposedly told her during the alleged phone call to look at 3 PEOPLE that are out of the country?...did I hear that right?...as more news comes out she just thinks she's slick to weave it into her lies?....I am getting more and more hopeful that gabe is alive.I think he is in Mexico.


The hmmm to me is how TS has never mentioned this part of the call about EJ saying look at 3 people that are out of the country, Until today when we find out that the LE have a witness that is saying 3 people seen with EJ, a Big Hmmmm,

DairyGirl
02-02-2010, 03:51 AM
http://www.kpho.com/news/22407233/detail.html


This kind of activity is usually reserved for campaign headquarters, but the urgency here is much more important than election wins and losses. The McQuearys are in a desperate search for one of their own.

"He's part of us, we want him back," said Sandy Peters, Gabriel's Great Aunt.

I didn't know that LM had an aunt with the same name as TPS (middle). Is that her maiden name?

Bforster
02-02-2010, 07:37 AM
The hmmm to me is how TS has never mentioned this part of the call about EJ saying look at 3 people that are out of the country, Until today when we find out that the LE have a witness that is saying 3 people seen with EJ, a Big Hmmmm,

The Monday after the last phone call that EJ had with TS, TS was on FB, and she is on my friends list... anyway I had just read the newspaper article about her phone call when she signed on... so I "im'ed" her and ask her what the phone call was about because the news cilp was so short and she had mentioned it was almost a 30 min call. she had told me that EJ was "fixtated" on 3 people from out of the country that had messaged her on FB. I asked her if that made sence to her cause how did EJ see her FB page or messages cause last I checked she was in jail and she didnt have access to FB. TS said it was because when she went to the jail to visit her she told her it was a nationwide search????? I have been bothered by this since then, I did let proper people know after I thought about it all day at work, and I have been checking out all her friends on her page since ( there is alot of them ) looking for who it could have been that she was refering to. there are people from Mexico that fit discription the EJ gave to TS but who knows:waitasec:

NDRaised
02-02-2010, 11:35 AM
Gabriels great aunt Sandy Peters maiden name is Woodard...just a coincidence that her married name is Peters! She is Logans aunt.

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 01:53 PM
okay, where do I post this? lol. We were discussing at some point about a cell phone with internet, right? Had we decided if she had that or not? Look at this clip from the video posted yesterday by Yami. At 12 seconds you can see EJ posted at 1am, Dec 24th from a cell phone (there's a cell phone image).

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211/kissdegirl77/craigslist/EJathotel.jpg

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 01:56 PM
Also, with regards to that video looking at EJ's myspace...wouldn't you have to be EJ's friend to see all that? So....who might the friend be that would have sent that to Yami? The same friend who might have suggested to Yami that there was a mystery couple and a mexican??? Hmmmmm. TS? Sneaky...but not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Concernedmomarizona
02-02-2010, 01:58 PM
okay, where do I post this? lol. We were discussing at some point about a cell phone with internet, right? Had we decided if she had that or not? Look at this clip from the video posted yesterday by Yami. At 12 seconds you can see EJ posted at 1am, Dec 24th from a cell phone (there's a cell phone image).

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211/kissdegirl77/craigslist/EJathotel.jpg

Good catch! I think there was discussion about a phone or an IPOD touch which can connect via wifi. Regardless...LE should be able to see the IP address of where this posted from and I believe trace it back to the device if it's a phone, or the IP address of the hotel if it's wifi.

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 02:03 PM
The hotel has free Wifi, and Apple iPod or iTouch has an app for internet use (someone said here). There was a charger for one found when they found EJ, no phone. TS bought an apple iPod just before EJ left from Ebay (we found this). Then, when EJ disappears, there are mysterious "pings" from her phone heading through Victoria, TX and toward Mexico. Of course, TS has family in Victoria. Mexico would suggest Mexicans. And when the media interviewed TS and JS, they mentioned Victoria, TX, and JS nudges TS...as if..."see, it did work." Then, yesterday, suddenly this friend of TS in San Antonio does a story, has the friends' view of EJ's Myspace, and mentions a Mexican in the company of EJ along with a younger couple than TS and JS???? Weird!!!

The Smith's "possibly" gave her a phone, a GPS, a carseat...and connections I'm sure! All signs lead to them, and they try to deflect it all back to EJ. I wish we could get them 2 in a room alone and see the catfight.

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 02:05 PM
Can I quote JJ? Where there's smoke, there's fire?!

chell
02-02-2010, 02:20 PM
I still believe that not just the baby but also even the cellphone could change hands (and coincidentally I think it could be that each travels in different directions) to throw everyone off track. The anonymity required to pull off an illegal/unregistered placement might require cellphone going to Victoria, EJ changing back and forth to hotels, baby going a completely different direction. If EJ were kept a little out of the loop so che can't talk because she doesn't know, their plan is close to working. Tammi is impossible not to suspect. I even think her shady cousin, Craig Cherry, has a role that's probably larger than having his name on paternity papers as a possible dad to Gabriel. He has faced charges for assuming the identity of others before and also has altered auto plates... If you were hiding something, you could easily be involved in both activities. Or maybe he is just in it for the business but I think he he could have ferried cell phones, EJ, TS, GPSs and even Gabriel to one of the hand-offs. I hope they are talking to him.

I also heard the name Cheryl mentioned as the name EJ thought the woman had (adoptive couple). Has anyone heard if traditional adoption sites have been searched for a couple who became desparate enough to go the illegal route?

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 02:26 PM
I still believe that not just the baby but also even the cellphone could change hands (and coincidentally I think it could be that each travels in different directions) to throw everyone off track. The anonymity required to pull off an illegal/unregistered placement might require cellphone going to Victoria, EJ changing back and forth to hotels, baby going a completely different direction. If EJ were kept a little out of the loop so che can't talk because she doesn't know, their plan is close to working. Tammi is impossible not to suspect. I even think her shady cousin, Craig Cherry, has a role that's probably larger than having his name on paternity papers as a possible dad to Gabriel. He has faced charges for assuming the identity of others before and also has altered auto plates... If you were hiding something, you could easily be involved in both activities. Or maybe he is just in it for the business but I think he he could have ferried cell phones, EJ, TS, GPSs and even Gabriel to one of the hand-offs. I hope they are talking to him.

I also heard the name Cheryl mentioned as the name EJ thought the woman had (adoptive couple). Has anyone heard if traditional adoption sites have been searched for a couple who became desparate enough to go the illegal route?

I feel the same. If you were going to hide a baby in the US, you would want the trail to lead away from him. So, the cell phone through Victoria (sneaky but smart) and headed to Mexico, then EJ heads East, leaving the car behind. So, Gabriel would have been taken North or West (back to AZ or CA maybe, as "H"s dad days). I also think that CC needs to be looked at very very closely.

Anyone want to sleuth with me? Can I post names of people? I want to see if anyone can make a connection to any of these people?

not_my_kids
02-02-2010, 02:36 PM
Also, with regards to that video looking at EJ's myspace...wouldn't you have to be EJ's friend to see all that? So....who might the friend be that would have sent that to Yami? The same friend who might have suggested to Yami that there was a mystery couple and a mexican??? Hmmmmm. TS? Sneaky...but not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Yes, EJ's status and mood are private on Myspace. To the best of my knowledge, you would have to her friend or have her password. I have tried other option to see them myself.

looking4clues
02-02-2010, 02:50 PM
okay, where do I post this? lol. We were discussing at some point about a cell phone with internet, right? Had we decided if she had that or not? Look at this clip from the video posted yesterday by Yami. At 12 seconds you can see EJ posted at 1am, Dec 24th from a cell phone (there's a cell phone image).

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211/kissdegirl77/craigslist/EJathotel.jpg

FWIW, when I update on FB from my iPod Touch, it shows the cell phone image there. I don't know if it's the same for MS because I don't really use MS. If it's the same, she could be using the MS app on her Touch. Maybe someone else knows. If not, I may try it out later just to see. Even if it was done that way, LE should have the IP address.

Concernedmomarizona
02-02-2010, 02:50 PM
BREAKING NEWS FROM KFYI.COM
I subscribe to their texts and it says: Arrest made in missing Baby Gabriel case. Stay with KFYI for more details.

Concernedmomarizona
02-02-2010, 02:51 PM
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6733156

Snip: Tempe Police Lieutenant Mike Horn tells 1200 WOAI News, Smith, 37 has been charged with Conspiracy to Commit Custodial Interference, Custodial Interference and Forgery. Those are all Class four felonies.

Amster
02-02-2010, 02:53 PM
So...the reporter has these pages? How did she get them??

kappy50
02-02-2010, 02:54 PM
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6733156

Snip: Tempe Police Lieutenant Mike Horn tells 1200 WOAI News, Smith, 37 has been charged with Conspiracy to Commit Custodial Interference, Custodial Interference and Forgery. Those are all Class four felonies.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amster
02-02-2010, 02:54 PM
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6733156

Snip: Tempe Police Lieutenant Mike Horn tells 1200 WOAI News, Smith, 37 has been charged with Conspiracy to Commit Custodial Interference, Custodial Interference and Forgery. Those are all Class four felonies.

OMG! :woohoo:

time
02-02-2010, 03:01 PM
YIPEEE!!!! where is that happy dance icon

time
02-02-2010, 03:03 PM
I feel the same. If you were going to hide a baby in the US, you would want the trail to lead away from him. So, the cell phone through Victoria (sneaky but smart) and headed to Mexico, then EJ heads East, leaving the car behind. So, Gabriel would have been taken North or West (back to AZ or CA maybe, as "H"s dad days). I also think that CC needs to be looked at very very closely.

Anyone want to sleuth with me? Can I post names of people? I want to see if anyone can make a connection to any of these people?


Be careful of the name posting! Some here might have started looking at CC, so maybe you can work with them.

kappy50
02-02-2010, 03:05 PM
With so much going on in the household...and now TS being arrested, I hope some family member get's "H" out of there. Maybe her own father......

time
02-02-2010, 03:05 PM
I hope Jack is next. I wonder how Tammi is going to like the restrictions or if she will bail out? I hope HER bail is set very high also. I wonder what Elizabeth's reactions will be to this news!

blessings to Logan on his journey today and meeting with Armes tonight! He must be smiling at this news, what a gift!

time
02-02-2010, 03:08 PM
With so much going on in the household...and now TS being arrested, I hope some family member get's "H" out of there. Maybe her own father......

Yes, I hope so too. I hope this helps TW or his relatives get custody even if temporary for now.

looking4clues
02-02-2010, 03:16 PM
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6733156

Snip: Tempe Police Lieutenant Mike Horn tells 1200 WOAI News, Smith, 37 has been charged with Conspiracy to Commit Custodial Interference, Custodial Interference and Forgery. Those are all Class four felonies.

YES YES YES!!!! Now let's get Gabriel HOME! :woohoo: I've felt LE had been letting her dig her own grave w/ the media. Now, there's a bombshell for Miss Nancy!

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 03:25 PM
Be careful of the name posting! Some here might have started looking at CC, so maybe you can work with them.

Thanks. I wasn't looking at CC, but some family/friends with one of TS's many names F****. Found possible connections I wanted to ask for help with in Van Ormy, TX (18 miles from the Tornado bus station), and also in Chandler, AZ, just 3 miles from the Walmart mentioned earlier. One of these people lives in TX, and has a picture of himslef holding a baby (lanscape looks like AZ). The pic is too small to see if it could be Gabe...but who knows. I sent it in anyway. Thanks again, I certainly don't come here to cause trouble, there's enough trouble by the name of TS for this whole world!

danisisa
02-02-2010, 03:44 PM
DO the S have contact in Sedona, Arizona? I have been holding this one in. She needed to get arrested before I said anything. Also, I have sent flyers to multiple places there. I hope they find G soon!!

Kamille
02-02-2010, 03:44 PM
FWIW, when I update on FB from my iPod Touch, it shows the cell phone image there. I don't know if it's the same for MS because I don't really use MS. If it's the same, she could be using the MS app on her Touch. Maybe someone else knows. If not, I may try it out later just to see. Even if it was done that way, LE should have the IP address.


The IP address will be whatever free wifi was being picked up if it's an ITouch. Since it was 1:00am, it was most likely from the room and would pick up the hotel's IP. But it would be interesting if it picked up an IP from somewhere else.

Phone's have web browsing capabilitites too I believe. Never use mine to access internet so I'm not sure how that works. Doesn't that get charged right to you? I don't think there has to be free wifi for that so I don't know what IP address would be picked up. Can you access the internet on a pay as you go phone or do you have to have an account that can be billed for internet use?

danisisa
02-02-2010, 04:08 PM
NEed HelP!! There is a girl on JS myspace page. She is 5' 3' in her thirties, thin, works for TS and has what looks like to be blondish hair. She has a hand band on. SHe is the only one who is not a celebrity in the top friends Can someone check it out. I came acrossed her last night and this feeling came over me. I believe she is on TS facebook and G fan page that TS did. I can't remember her name. You will recognize her face..I am at work and do not have access to FB or MYspace.

time
02-02-2010, 04:16 PM
NEed HelP!! There is a girl on JS myspace page. She is 5' 3' in her thirties, thin, works for TS and has what looks like to be blondish hair. She has a hand band on. SHe is the only one who is not a celebrity in the top friends Can someone check it out. I came acrossed her last night and this feeling came over me. I believe she is on TS facebook and G fan page that TS did. I can't remember her name. You will recognize her face..I am at work and do not have access to FB or MYspace.

You mean "B", Tammi's sister? She says she is 5'1"

kappy50
02-02-2010, 04:24 PM
DO the S have contact in Sedona, Arizona? I have been holding this one in. She needed to get arrested before I said anything. Also, I have sent flyers to multiple places there. I hope they find G soon!!

Hummmmm.."D"...what you thinking ? Or can you say???

time
02-02-2010, 04:29 PM
Thanks. I wasn't looking at CC, but some family/friends with one of TS's many names F****. Found possible connections I wanted to ask for help with in Van Ormy, TX (18 miles from the Tornado bus station), and also in Chandler, AZ, just 3 miles from the Walmart mentioned earlier. One of these people lives in TX, and has a picture of himslef holding a baby (lanscape looks like AZ). The pic is too small to see if it could be Gabe...but who knows. I sent it in anyway. Thanks again, I certainly don't come here to cause trouble, there's enough trouble by the name of TS for this whole world!

Nice digging! I'm glad you sent it in - did you send it to Logan so he can give it to his PI also?

danisisa
02-02-2010, 04:31 PM
Hummmmm.."D"...what you thinking ? Or can you say???

Can't say now...Need more proof.

danisisa
02-02-2010, 04:34 PM
You mean "B", Tammi's sister? She says she is 5'1"


Yes---Oops I meant 5 1.. She looks young for her age.

kissdegirl
02-02-2010, 04:39 PM
Nice digging! I'm glad you sent it in - did you send it to Logan so he can give it to his PI also?

I didn't send it to LM, because I wanted to see if I could find a solid familly connection. Interesting too, with that name search in TX, there is a spanish name as well, and a hispanic family. I hate to send anyone on wild goose chases, so I hesitate sending it to them.

kappy50
02-02-2010, 04:41 PM
Can't say now...Need more proof.

Bean...asked on the tips thread that LM was intereted in anything we could find about a Gospel Rescue Mission in Tuscon. Isn't Sedona not far from there ? My sister lives in Tuscon and she took us to Sedona, and it didn't seem that far away...

danisisa
02-02-2010, 04:45 PM
Almost 4 hours apart, but Sedona is 2 hours from Scottsdale.

danisisa
02-02-2010, 04:46 PM
Scottsdale is in the middle of the two...GOtta go to a meeting....be back soon.

time
02-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Yes---Oops I meant 5 1.. She looks young for her age.

Yes, she does... that's what I thought too. Not sure if that is a recent pic though? Is there other info about her you wanted?

Her pics used to be public and I looked at them. Interesting, I'm not sure who the hispanic family is that she seems to be so connected to (at least, I think they are hispanic, when I went back to look I couldn't review them). Although I don't think that means much.

danisisa
02-02-2010, 04:57 PM
On a myspace page of someone else in her top friends, she was telling someone that she misses them......Where is she????? LE need to find out!!

danisisa
02-02-2010, 10:42 PM
WTH!!! WHy aren't the LE asking the person who bought her laptop to bring it to them??? THIs is a missing persons case. I cannot see someone not returning it for review. IF she was in contact with someone in San ANtonio, I can almost guarantee you it would be on there.

danisisa
02-02-2010, 10:47 PM
I just emailed Tempe LE.

kissdegirl
02-03-2010, 12:19 AM
I would really like to see EJ's face now, when she learns TS is right there with her. I know TS won't crack, I'm sure she won't, but I don't doubt that she can't stop yacking...even behind bars. So, I hope she yacks the right info to lead to Gabriel. That, or EJ will realize the gig is up and give some info.
I doubt either will give an inch though....I just really wish they would. I guess now that TS isn't running around anymore, maybe people will start with the tips again and the PI's, LE and FBI will find our little guy.

ETA: Couldnt' they put them in cells near enough to talk, but not whisper? They would definitely get into it and at least EJ, in her rage would spill something more. Especially when she finds out TS set her up (at least in EJ's mind).

danisisa
02-03-2010, 12:34 AM
OMG---I just mapquested Tempe, Az to Nashville, TN......SAn Antonio is not even close to being on the way.....Oh wow!! TS in another lie!! San Antonio was the destination!!!

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Tempe&1s=AZ&1y=US&1l=33.4147&1g=-111.9086&1v=CITY&2c=Nashville&2s=TN&2y=US&2l=36.165798&2g=-86.784401&2v=CITY

danisisa
02-03-2010, 12:42 AM
Yes, she does... that's what I thought too. Not sure if that is a recent pic though? Is there other info about her you wanted?

Her pics used to be public and I looked at them. Interesting, I'm not sure who the hispanic family is that she seems to be so connected to (at least, I think they are hispanic, when I went back to look I couldn't review them). Although I don't think that means much.

WIsh we knew what her hubby looks like.

danisisa
02-03-2010, 12:52 AM
I wonder if EJ was seeing anyone after LM and her broke up.....I just can't see her being alone. WHat did she do the whole time the SMith's had G.....THere is more to this. I hope LM has explored this avenue.

Another thing, I think that so called babysitter knows a heck of alot more. They need to scare her into telling the truth...She does not need to start her adult life with a record.

TXHOPE
02-03-2010, 11:17 AM
Hmmmm. Why is the Nancy Grace thread closed? I needed a good laugh this morning and was looking forward to reading it.

JBean
02-03-2010, 11:32 AM
Please break out the discussion into topic specific threads. General Discussion threads make it impossible to find information later ebecause so many topics are covered in one thread.
thank you so much.