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rpipergirl
01-26-2010, 06:21 PM
When are people going to learn!! This poor girl was brought to the US for a better life and wound up dead at her own hand from being Bullied. Every time I read or hear a story like this it makes me so :furious::furious::furious: .
I was bullied in school and am so glad we did not have the technology to cyber bully. My biggest problem was that teachers are just as bad. If they don't like the kid they make it ok to pick on or bully the kid.
I also think parents need to surpervise their kids net use.
:banghead: When will it STOP! How many kids have to die.

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2010/01/24/teens_suicide_prompts_a_look_at_bullying/

Disguiseduser0308
01-27-2010, 01:37 AM
:( What a shame. This family comes to the country to provide what they believe will be a better life and they lose their daughter.

We definitely need stricter rules/policies on bullying in schools. I also believe the parents of these bullies should be notified and intervene immediately when they learn of their child's behavior. No warnings.. stop it immediately. Only problem is.. I don't know how we can stop it. Bullying is as old as man himself.

DeepThinker
01-27-2010, 01:45 AM
:( What a shame. This family comes to the country to provide what they believe will be a better life and they lose their daughter.

We definitely need stricter rules/policies on bullying in schools. I also believe the parents of these bullies should be notified and intervene immediately when they learn of their child's behavior. No warnings.. stop it immediately. Only problem is.. I don't know how we can stop it. Bullying is as old as man himself.

Unfortunately, even when parents are notified that their child is a bully, nothing is done. It is my belief that a lot of children learn bullying behavior at home. Or, parents will blow it off, thinking it's nothing. MOO

Gozgals
01-27-2010, 03:08 AM
How very sad. Bullying has been around for so long and it seems it will continue. True, if the teachers don't like a child, some will take part in this behavior and let the bullying go one. I feel sorry for any child who has to endure this type of abuse daily. I know some men believe that if the child stands up to it, (typically a male child) the situation will be resolved. I believe a female child has no recourse if this type of problem exists. I feel so bad when we lose a child for a reason such as bullying.

I think many parents just shake their heads and feel it is not a big problem at all but it is. It is so hurtful and we have seen it lead to the death of other young people and children. It has to stop. Schools have to interact more to make sure this does not take place, as do the parents.

She appears to be such a lovely, pretty young girl too. So sad.
May she R.I.P.

Gozgals

Boyz_Mum
01-27-2010, 08:26 AM
Rest in peace Phoebe. Prayers with your family.

MargotKidder
01-27-2010, 08:41 AM
God, I hate to hear stories like this. I know that there are bullies out there, and that sometimes very little can be done to solve these problems. It is so hard in the teenage years to see beyond your present circumstances though. It is hard to imagine that usually when you grow up to be an adult, most people could care less about the superficial things that mattered in middle or high school. I wish that schools could try to solve problems like bullying with support groups for kids....or at least teach a sociology class that focuses on cultural differences in world societies or cultural awareness in your own local area. Don't some businesses even have classes on this to help adults cope with diversity...and to build team morale?

teonspaleprincess
01-27-2010, 09:59 AM
This is one reason I am so glad that we moved, my son was the subject of many days of torment by the kids at his old school. I complained and complained and nothing was done. Thank God he has found friends here.

theforgotten
01-27-2010, 10:12 AM
My prayers and thoughts are with the family. I wonder if she was suffering from depression and the bullying made it worse. I'm just thinking out load.

BeenaBobba
01-31-2010, 04:31 PM
I know some men believe that if the child stands up to it, (typically a male child) the situation will be resolved. I believe a female child has no recourse if this type of problem exists.

Not only that, but teenage girls can be especially catty.

I think many parents just shake their heads and feel it is not a big problem at all but it is. It is so hurtful and we have seen it lead to the death of other young people and children. It has to stop. Schools have to interact more to make sure this does not take place, as do the parents.

I totally agree. It seems to me that a lot of parents want to believe that their kids can do no wrong, so I'd imagine that they'd get defensive when presented with evidence that their kid's bullying others. It's a shame, especially when it ends in a tragedy like this. That poor girl. :( May she rest in peace.

LinasK
01-31-2010, 04:40 PM
God, I hate to hear stories like this. I know that there are bullies out there, and that sometimes very little can be done to solve these problems. It is so hard in the teenage years to see beyond your present circumstances though. It is hard to imagine that usually when you grow up to be an adult, most people could care less about the superficial things that mattered in middle or high school. I wish that schools could try to solve problems like bullying with support groups for kids....or at least teach a sociology class that focuses on cultural differences in world societies or cultural awareness in your own local area. Don't some businesses even have classes on this to help adults cope with diversity...and to build team morale?
It's not just middle school and high school... I was bullied for 3 years in elementary school! 4th,5th, and 6th grade were a living hell for me!

wonders
01-31-2010, 07:50 PM
A child who is a bully in childhood grows up to be a bully as an adult too. Been bullied a lot in my life. Was laid off a job early last year, boss called to meet me her for coffee in the spring, she offered my job back, I told her she is a bully and vindictive. That settled that.

BeenaBobba
01-31-2010, 09:25 PM
A child who is a bully in childhood grows up to be a bully as an adult too. Been bullied a lot in my life. Was laid off a job early last year, boss called to meet me her for coffee in the spring, she offered my job back, I told her she is a bully and vindictive. That settled that.

Very true. And parents who leave a lot to be desired, morally and ethically speaking, usually raise bullies who don't care about others.

Good for you for sticking up for yourself! :)

not_my_kids
02-01-2010, 08:00 AM
I was bullied from the first grade on up. Unfortunately,I was the perfect target courtesy of my mother. She was an animal hoarder, so my clothes always smelled like cat feces.
One morning, I ate too slow, so she slapped my bowl of corn flakes over my head and made me wear it to school. The principal took me in her office and we used her private bathroom to wash it out. She gave me a nice long talk about bullies, and how most of them are pushed around at home. Explained to me about how when people, even young ones, feel powerless, they try to take power from other people. She taught me a very adult saying that day: "I'm sorry for whatever you are going through, but you won't feel better for hurting me." That saying literally sustained me through my years in formal school, which were first, second, sixth and tenth.
I thank God for her, or I likely would have killed myself in sixth. I wish there were more administrators out there like her, that would realize that bullies will bully, they do it for power and attention, and addressing them will likely cause more issues. Address the victims, make them feel like they have worth, and reassure them that they can survive, they can make it through. JMO and my own two cents.

~greeneyedgirl~
02-01-2010, 09:42 AM
When are we going to teach and or remind our children that even though the people we see and go to school with as we grow really are insignificant in the big picture. I barely ever see the kids I went to school. School is only about what 14 years that is such a small part in the big picture, and if we teach them that no matter what, you will make it through and become a better person. It is hard, and it really does seem like there is no way out or no end but there is.....time. During it seems like forever while we are in school but now as a grown woman it was so fast and those people who I thought were cool or important AREN"T.

OneLostGrl
02-02-2010, 11:27 PM
I was bullied from the first grade on up. Unfortunately,I was the perfect target courtesy of my mother. She was an animal hoarder, so my clothes always smelled like cat feces.
One morning, I ate too slow, so she slapped my bowl of corn flakes over my head and made me wear it to school. The principal took me in her office and we used her private bathroom to wash it out. She gave me a nice long talk about bullies, and how most of them are pushed around at home. Explained to me about how when people, even young ones, feel powerless, they try to take power from other people. She taught me a very adult saying that day: "I'm sorry for whatever you are going through, but you won't feel better for hurting me." That saying literally sustained me through my years in formal school, which were first, second, sixth and tenth.
I thank God for her, or I likely would have killed myself in sixth. I wish there were more administrators out there like her, that would realize that bullies will bully, they do it for power and attention, and addressing them will likely cause more issues. Address the victims, make them feel like they have worth, and reassure them that they can survive, they can make it through. JMO and my own two cents.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/HugsWithJaniesSignature-1.jpg

lizzybeth
02-03-2010, 08:11 AM
I was bullied from the first grade on up. Unfortunately,I was the perfect target courtesy of my mother. She was an animal hoarder, so my clothes always smelled like cat feces.
One morning, I ate too slow, so she slapped my bowl of corn flakes over my head and made me wear it to school. The principal took me in her office and we used her private bathroom to wash it out. She gave me a nice long talk about bullies, and how most of them are pushed around at home. Explained to me about how when people, even young ones, feel powerless, they try to take power from other people. She taught me a very adult saying that day: "I'm sorry for whatever you are going through, but you won't feel better for hurting me." That saying literally sustained me through my years in formal school, which were first, second, sixth and tenth.
I thank God for her, or I likely would have killed myself in sixth. I wish there were more administrators out there like her, that would realize that bullies will bully, they do it for power and attention, and addressing them will likely cause more issues. Address the victims, make them feel like they have worth, and reassure them that they can survive, they can make it through. JMO and my own two cents.

I'm so sorry you went through that. I was bullied too for being shy and then later on for having cancer. What a Godsend that principal was and I think I'm going to take that saying and print it, so I can remember it when someone intentionally hurts me.

:heart:

ohiogirl
03-29-2010, 01:08 PM
9 Indicted in Connection with Student's Bullying death.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/22987784/detail.html

ohiogirl
03-29-2010, 01:10 PM
This article names those charged.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1243175&srvc=home&position=active

ohiogirl
03-29-2010, 01:37 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/24/the_untouchable_mean_girls/

mysticrose
03-29-2010, 01:38 PM
I only got bullied on occ. in school...everyone knew my older sister and were scared of her ! I always came to the defense of kids that I saw being bullied, always even if it meant a knock down drag out in the school hall ! I hate bullies !

Boyz_Mum
03-29-2010, 02:23 PM
I pray that school administration across the country reads about this and is proactive to help stop bullying in schools. I pray parents around the country read about this and are proactive if their children are the bully or the bullied.

RIP Phoebe, I'm praying your story changes lives for the better.

kbl8201
03-29-2010, 02:23 PM
my problem here is they didnt convict that mom of bullying for that girl who killed herself over the emails she sent her.

can things change here? this is massachusetts after all......pedophiles get 1,000 cash bail and murdering nanny's get time served

LogicalMinds
03-29-2010, 03:30 PM
I really hope they can get justice for this poor kid....this is so sad...

It truly bothers me that a teacher in the library that day witnessed these jerks tormenting this poor girl and did nothing.....wth??

(((hugs))) to all of those who shared their stories here, especially Not My Kids..

what great words of wisdom...I only wish that some teacher had helped Phoebe like that....what a great reminder that little things can make a difference

believe09
03-29-2010, 04:12 PM
I added tags so that they can find themselves here on WS...yes they are juveniles, but they have been named and charged.

Such a heartwarming story-NOT. Who raises their kids to be this mean?

kbl8201
03-29-2010, 04:45 PM
i'd make a sarcastic remark about frontal lobes but i wore that out on other threads.

SuziQ
03-29-2010, 05:31 PM
Pics of some of the perps at the below link. I wonder what's behind not releasing three of the names?

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/phoebe-prince-bullying-suicide-list-of-suspects-charges-25-apx-20100329

(snip)
Three 16-year-old South Hadley girls, whose names were not release, face delinquency charges of violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting, criminal harassment, and disturbance of a school assembly, criminal harassment, and assault by means of a dangerous weapon.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
03-29-2010, 06:15 PM
Pics of some of the perps at the below link. I wonder what's behind not releasing three of the names?

Respectfully snipped. I heard that some of them were charged as adults, and some were not. The three names that were not released may have been charged as juveniles? But then...it does list that some are charged as a "youthful offender", so I guess I don't know.

Metzgermeister
03-29-2010, 10:43 PM
This story brought me to tears when I read it elsewhere. Then I started reading deeper into it and found out she was raped by 2 ***holes.

I am so pissed. Bullying is too abundant in this world, it's becoming hard to notice. We need a change.

jjenny
03-30-2010, 12:27 AM
This story brought me to tears when I read it elsewhere. Then I started reading deeper into it and found out she was raped by 2 ***holes.

I am so pissed. Bullying is too abundant in this world, it's becoming hard to notice. We need a change.

They are charged with statutory rape, which means she was under age of whatever is considered the age of consent at that state.

kbl8201
03-30-2010, 12:31 AM
its statutory cause its' not like she can testify it was other, can she?

jjenny
03-30-2010, 12:38 AM
its statutory cause its' not like she can testify it was other, can she?

Well she can't testify to anything, which didn't stop charges of statutory rape. So how do you suppose prosecutor is going to try and prove statutory rape?
I have no idea how 17 year old can even be charged with statutory rape because he is also a minor.

Metzgermeister
03-30-2010, 01:03 AM
Uhhh wouldn't he have to be 18+ for statutory? And there were two people when she only dated 1 jock...

SuziQ
03-30-2010, 01:29 AM
It seems to me that there are alot of details left out. I'm hoping the probable cause statements will be released soon on the perps charged as adults at least.

jjenny
03-30-2010, 01:31 AM
Uhhh wouldn't he have to be 18+ for statutory? And there were two people when she only dated 1 jock...

I watched the press conference by the prosecutor. Nothing was alleged about any kind of forcible rape. Prosecutor was talking about the girl being harassed because of teen dating relationship.

Metzgermeister
03-30-2010, 01:52 AM
I'm just really confused as to why there are two boys being charged with statutory rape and not just the one jock she might have dated.

elle1919
03-30-2010, 08:56 AM
http://www.sulphurdailynews.com/news/x1336920132/9-charged-with-bullying-Mass-teen-who-killed-self

snip~Scheibel said the harassment began in September, occurring primarily in school and in person, although some of it surfaced on Facebook and in other electronic forms. At least four students and two faculty members intervened to try to stop it or report it to administrators, she said.

Schiebel refused to discuss the circumstances of the rape charges.

No school officials are being charged because they had "a lack of understanding of harassment associated with teen dating relationships," and the school's code of conduct was interpreted and enforced in an "inconsistent" way, Scheibel said.

"Nevertheless, the actions — or inactions — of some adults at the school are troublesome," she said. ~ end snip

No officials at school were charged because of a lack of understanding of harassment associated with teen relationships? Where were they raised on Mars? Ridiculous and unacceptable. This families loss can never be measured. Phoebe was found in the staircase of their apartment building by her little sister. God bless her.

According to articles I have read 50 people were interviewed by police, 50 people had knowledge of what was being done to this 15 year old girl for 3months. and no-one said or did a thing. Unacceptable.

bamabeauty
03-30-2010, 09:23 AM
I despise bullies. It was bad enough when I was in school and that was without cell phones and the internet wit facebook and all the other social networking sites which give bullies free rein to bully anonymously. I believe there are many problems that have led to bulling becoming so much worse in recent years. One of the problems are schools being to quick to look the other way. I hope and pray this is changing as many schools have adopted a zero tolerance policy and there are now programs in place top teach children how wrong and bad bullying is and not to let others be bullies as young as preschool. The biggest problem I think is parents that have the "not my child" syndrome. You know 30 years ago if a child was sent to the principal for bulling that were probably more scared of the punishment awaiting them at home. That is not the case now in so many homes. That is why I believe they need to enact some very strict anti bullying laws no matter the age of the offender. Make the punishment so stiff that they will not want to bully anyone ever again. Expel them and criminally charge them. Until a message is sent and examples are made of these bullies I am afraid this will problem will get worse.

Linda7NJ
03-30-2010, 09:42 AM
First, I want to preface this by saying, there should be ZERO tolerance for bullying. I am in no way excusing or diminishing what happened, nor am I blaming her parents.

but.............................

I can't for the life of me understand HOW and WHY the parents of this beautiful child sent her off to school everyday!

If a parent learned their 15 year old daughter's boyfriend was treating her badly, hitting and belittling her ..I am certain the parent wouldn't pat her on the head and send her off on another date with him. I view this no differently.

Parents do need to take responsibility for their own child's safety & welfare. It should be BLANTANTLY OBVIOUS that no one else was going to....and certainly not this school administration.

Of course parents should be able to entrust their child to the school for a free education..... but, we also know that simply isn't true.

For Pete's Sake....if you bring a child into this world, adopt a child, or are otherwise responsible for the welfare of a child....protect that child!

bamabeauty
03-30-2010, 09:50 AM
have you stopped to consider maybe her parents did not know. I was bullied around that age and was ashamed and never said a word to my parents. Maybe their 1st warning sign was when she committed suicide. maybe both parents worked full time and could not home school her or could not afford another method of schooling. As long as the law requires that children attend school then they should make absolutely every effort towards assuring that there is a safe environment ion which to do it. I do not believe what so ever that any finger at all should be pointed at these grieving parents.

Linda7NJ
03-30-2010, 10:08 AM
have you stopped to consider maybe her parents did not know. I was bullied around that age and was ashamed and never said a word to my parents. Maybe their 1st warning sign was when she committed suicide. maybe both parents worked full time and could not home school her or could not afford another method of schooling. As long as the law requires that children attend school then they should make absolutely every effort towards assuring that there is a safe environment ion which to do it. I do not believe what so ever that any finger at all should be pointed at these grieving parents.

I think if you re-read my post....I agreed with you... They should...but they don't!

I clearly stated, I wasn't blaming the parents.

jjenny
03-30-2010, 10:11 AM
have you stopped to consider maybe her parents did not know. I was bullied around that age and was ashamed and never said a word to my parents. Maybe their 1st warning sign was when she committed suicide. maybe both parents worked full time and could not home school her or could not afford another method of schooling. As long as the law requires that children attend school then they should make absolutely every effort towards assuring that there is a safe environment ion which to do it. I do not believe what so ever that any finger at all should be pointed at these grieving parents.

Her mother did know. It has been reported the mother talked to at least two school stuff about it.
Obviously most people don't have the luxury to take their child out of school if for whatever reason the child isn't doing well there.

Lola
03-30-2010, 10:27 AM
Whether or not she came to the US for a "better life" may or may not be true, but it's certainly irrelevant. Here is her obituary -- Phoebe Mary Nora Prince (1994-2010) (http://obits.masslive.com/obituaries/masslive/obituary.aspx?n=phoebe-nora-mary-prince&pid=138777897)

Linda7NJ
03-30-2010, 10:31 AM
Her mother did know. It has been reported the mother talked to at least two school stuff about it.
Obviously most people don't have the luxury to take their child out of school if for whatever reason the child isn't doing well there.

A "luxury" ?

I don't think so.

Adults have recourse. If an adult faced the same sort of harassment in the workplace there are laws in place. Adults can decide to stay or go, file suit etc... Children can not. It's up to their parents.

We know what happens when a bully's victim tries to handle it on their own....school shootings, stabbings etc...or suicide...or emotional damage that never leaves.

It's a HUGE deal with lasting repercussions. If parents don't make their child's well being a priority, how the heck is anyone else supposed to???

If pulling the child out is TRULY impossible....I would suggest it's a parents job to be very LOUD and EVER present in advocating for their child's rights. Find a lawyer, put the school on notice, call the media, etc...

This particular child was 15 years old. Obviously, old enough to stay home alone and do guided online study.

I think many parents are sending the wrong message to their children when a child believes their own safety and well being isn't as important as going off to be tortured everyday getting an "education".

Linda7NJ
03-30-2010, 10:33 AM
Whether or not she came to the US for a "better life" may or may not be true, but it's certainly irrelevant. Here is her obituary -- Phoebe Mary Nora Prince (1994-2010) (http://obits.masslive.com/obituaries/masslive/obituary.aspx?n=phoebe-nora-mary-prince&pid=138777897)


It's absolutely gut wrenching!

bamabeauty
03-30-2010, 10:34 AM
Her mother did know. It has been reported the mother talked to at least two school stuff about it.
Obviously most people don't have the luxury to take their child out of school if for whatever reason the child isn't doing well there.
That is exactly what I said that most people can not pick up and change schools with there children and I do not think that they should have to. Even if the mother knew that does not change my opinion that the school really dropped the ball on this.

bamabeauty
03-30-2010, 10:41 AM
I think if you re-read my post....I agreed with you... They should...but they don't!

I clearly stated, I wasn't blaming the parents.
I do not think that you are blaming the parents. You sated how and why they continued to to sent their beautiful child off to school everyday. I am not in their shoes so I am not sure wetehr or not they were in a position that there was an alternative to her going to school. You and I both agree that children should be able to send there kids off to school and they be safe and we both agree that that is not entirely plausible. All I am saying is absolutely every effort should be taken so that it can be plausible. Schools need to be held responsible and harsh actions taken when they drop the ball on bullying. There also needs to be harsher punishment for bullies . Something needs to be done from the very first signs of bullying also and not wait until it is much to late as in this case.

elle1919
03-30-2010, 10:52 AM
Perhaps the mother was pacified by words from authority figures who had no intention of making sure the bullying stopped.

Perhaps, Phoebe herself continued to go to school out of choice.

Whatever happened it is most definitely a tragedy. I hope the students that bullied, and I hate to use that word, her death is the result of so much more than that in my opinion. I hope the students who were involved in this are punished to the fullest extent of the law. I hope they find it so difficult to live with themselves that they find a way to make a change in their school systems and atone for the wrong that they have done, and that might still never be enough. JMO

jjenny
03-30-2010, 10:53 AM
A "luxury" ?

I don't think so.

Adults have recourse. If an adult faced the same sort of harassment in the workplace there are laws in place. Adults can decide to stay or go, file suit etc... Children can not. It's up to their parents.

We know what happens when a bully's victim tries to handle it on their own....school shootings, stabbings etc...or suicide...or emotional damage that never leaves.

It's a HUGE deal with lasting repercussions. If parents don't make their child's well being a priority, how the heck is anyone else supposed to???

If pulling the child out is TRULY impossible....I would suggest it's a parents job to be very LOUD and EVER present in advocating for their child's rights. Find a lawyer, put the school on notice, call the media, etc...

This particular child was 15 years old. Obviously, old enough to stay home alone and do guided online study.

I think many parents are sending the wrong message to their children when a child believes their own safety and well being isn't as important as going off to be tortured everyday getting an "education".

Let just be real. Most people have to work to make a living.
They are not going to be able to pull the child out of school every time the child is having problems. Ultimately this is a suicide. I don't think anyone expects the child to commit suicide over problems in school.

bamabeauty
03-30-2010, 11:06 AM
A "luxury" ?

I don't think so.

Adults have recourse. If an adult faced the same sort of harassment in the workplace there are laws in place. Adults can decide to stay or go, file suit etc... Children can not. It's up to their parents.

We know what happens when a bully's victim tries to handle it on their own....school shootings, stabbings etc...or suicide...or emotional damage that never leaves.

It's a HUGE deal with lasting repercussions. If parents don't make their child's well being a priority, how the heck is anyone else supposed to???

If pulling the child out is TRULY impossible....I would suggest it's a parents job to be very LOUD and EVER present in advocating for their child's rights. Find a lawyer, put the school on notice, call the media, etc...

This particular child was 15 years old. Obviously, old enough to stay home alone and do guided online study.

I think many parents are sending the wrong message to their children when a child believes their own safety and well being isn't as important as going off to be tortured everyday getting an "education".

Linda with all do respect I think that the way changes will be brought about is not focusing on the bullied childrens parents but on the schools , the bullies parents and the bullies them selfs. I do agree that parents should make there childrens safety and well being their #1 priority but I know of cases where parents have made themselves a thorn in the side of the school and nothing has been done. Some parents honestly have no other option than to sent their child to school. If it was me I would pull my child out but I have that option. I do not think things will change until the schools , the bullies and even the bullies parents if they have chosen to do nothing are held accountable very harshly by law. I just do not think anything will be accomplished by trying to hold the bullied child's parents to a higher accountability.

Linda7NJ
03-30-2010, 11:48 AM
Let just be real. Most people have to work to make a living.
They are not going to be able to pull the child out of school every time the child is having problems. Ultimately this is a suicide. I don't think anyone expects the child to commit suicide over problems in school.

Is school nothing but a free babysitting service for working parents?

It shouldn't be.

I don't think what this child endured should be classified something as simple as "problems in school." What if this was going on in your workplace?

What is a bullied child actually learning? To hate themselves, feel "less than", how to be scared, routes of escape, their parents can't or won't protect them, or don't care enough to, ditto for the school etc.... Does anyone really believe they are still getting a decent academic education? At what cost? The ones that don't snap and harm others or themselves learn simply how to suck it up and be a good victim because no one really gives a crap?

I wouldn't expect anyone under constant and relentless attack to learn much of anything academically.

Schools should be safe. No kidding. Doesn't change the fact that they're aren't. A six year old child should be able to walk to the corner store alone, play at the park down the street alone and linger in the toy isle of a store while a parent shops. But that doesn't change the reality that they simply can not, safely.

I was very reluctant to blame the parents because of their loss and overwhelming grief. I sincerely hope not a one of them reads what I am about to write. They should have pulled her out of school. Deep down, I do blame them. Their daughter wasn't strong enough to withstand the torment and I feel they should have protected her.

While everyone else continues blaming the schools, and the bodies pile up, let's all ignore the parents responsibility? I don't think so. Parents need to send the strong message to their children that their safety and well being is your number one priority and should also be theirs. That you will protect them or die trying.

I don't understand the mentality and chronic need of the vast majority of people for the public education system to raise children. What the heck do all of these parents unable to pull their children out do with them in the summer?:waitasec:

daisy7
03-30-2010, 12:29 PM
Linda with all do respect I think that the way changes will be brought about is not focusing on the bullied childrens parents but on the schools , the bullies parents and the bullies them selfs. I do agree that parents should make there childrens safety and well being their #1 priority but I know of cases where parents have made themselves a thorn in the side of the school and nothing has been done. Some parents honestly have no other option than to sent their child to school. If it was me I would pull my child out but I have that option. I do not think things will change until the schools , the bullies and even the bullies parents if they have chosen to do nothing are held accountable very harshly by law. I just do not think anything will be accomplished by trying to hold the bullied child's parents to a higher accountability.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

raeann
03-30-2010, 12:32 PM
New article:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Paladine
03-30-2010, 12:43 PM
I have nothing of substance to add. I simply dropped in to express my sympathy to Phoebe's Family and Friends...this story reached deep inside of me and crushed my heart. I don't even think I can follow it...it's just too painful. I can't imagine the pain that Child felt. Thank God. And may the Family find peace...someday.

elle1919
03-30-2010, 01:14 PM
This letter comes too late in my opinion. Evidently there were at least two girls that moved to get away from this very school and the bullying.

Old video but a good watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CihzX-kvrFo&NR=1

SnowAngels
03-30-2010, 01:32 PM
This poor darling girl. No one deserves to go through that hell, especially being 15 and new to America. This story absolutely breaks my heart.

adnoid
03-30-2010, 01:48 PM
its statutory cause its' not like she can testify it was other, can she?

If the facts fit the State's definition for statutory rape (that exact term is actually not used in MA) her testimony would not be needed anyway. If the facts confirm sexual activity and the ages of the two are accurate it's prima facie evidence that the crime occurred. If in fact she was below the age of legal consent her insistence that she consented would be irrelevant.

AndresEscobar
03-30-2010, 01:53 PM
Uhhh wouldn't he have to be 18+ for statutory? And there were two people when she only dated 1 jock...


Age of consent in Mass is 16. Statutory rape is having sex with someone under the age of 16. This is a strict liability crime. Basically, if you did it, you get convicted.

The boys charged with statutory rape are 17 and 18. Most states have what is called Romeo and Juliet laws preventing people from being charged with statutory rape when one party is above the age of consent and the other party is below, but their ages are within a certain age number of years (usually around 3 years). These laws were developed to stop high school students that are dating from being charged with statutory rape. For example, a High School senior that is 18 and a high school freshman that is 15. Massachusetts apparently does not have such a law. As such, these two boys will face life in prison.

burbqueen
03-30-2010, 03:45 PM
Bullying makes me so mad. I wish my mom had the stones to pull me out of school. I was teased not nowhere near like this poor girl and others. I was so depressed and times and did think of suicide.

Yeah its not very easy to pull your kid out of school. I know in Texas the districts are set up by area and going to another school that is outside your area is hard to do. There aren't really any alternatives unless u home school and most dont have that luxury. But if my kid is suffering that bad then I would do what I had to do and get them out.

jjenny
03-30-2010, 08:03 PM
If the facts fit the State's definition for statutory rape (that exact term is actually not used in MA) her testimony would not be needed anyway. If the facts confirm sexual activity and the ages of the two are accurate it's prima facie evidence that the crime occurred. If in fact she was below the age of legal consent her insistence that she consented would be irrelevant.

How would prosecutor confirm sexual activity without her testimony?
She is dead and presumably no physical evidence has been collected.
Even if the boys told other people there was sexual activity, what is to stop them from denying it at trial?

jjenny
03-30-2010, 08:10 PM
Bullying makes me so mad. I wish my mom had the stones to pull me out of school. I was teased not nowhere near like this poor girl and others. I was so depressed and times and did think of suicide.

Yeah its not very easy to pull your kid out of school. I know in Texas the districts are set up by area and going to another school that is outside your area is hard to do. There aren't really any alternatives unless u home school and most dont have that luxury. But if my kid is suffering that bad then I would do what I had to do and get them out.

Exactly. Most people can not afford private schools, and either unable or don't know how to home school. And hindsight is always 20-20. If her parents knew she was going to kill herself over this, then presumably they would have pulled her out of school even if she got no education-obviously the parents had no idea as to what she was going to do.

Wise Old Owl
03-30-2010, 08:24 PM
How would prosecutor confirm sexual activity without her testimony?
She is dead and presumably no physical evidence has been collected.
Even if the boys told other people there was sexual activity, what is to stop them from denying it at trial?
I have been giving this some thought. It might be that the boys involved were rumored to have "taken her virginity" and that could be proven in an autopsy. IDK - just thinking out loud.

As a teacher of almost 20 years now - there are LOT of PROBLEMS in our school throughout this country. Bullying is a HUGE problem - but one that has been around as long as school itself.

Here in Broward county, FloriDUH - we were the first to boast that our public schools have adopted and instituted an "Anti Bullying Policy". All I have to say about this is - this "policy" was already in effect when Michael Brewer was lit on fire and Josie Ratley had her head kicked in - soooooo......I have to ask the School "Bored" members here - "How's that wokrin' out for ya?"

Prayers for Phoebe's family.

jjenny
03-30-2010, 08:34 PM
I have been giving this some thought. It might be that the boys involved were rumored to have "taken her virginity" and that could be proven in an autopsy. IDK - just thinking out loud.

As a teacher of almost 20 years now - there are LOT of PROBLEMS in our school throughout this country. Bullying is a HUGE problem - but one that has been around as long as school itself.

Here in Broward county, FloriDUH - we were the first to boast that our public schools have adopted and instituted an "Anti Bullying Policy". All I have to say about this is - this "policy" was already in effect when Michael Brewer was lit on fire and Josie Ratley had her head kicked in - soooooo......I have to ask the School "Bored" members here - "How's that wokrin' out for ya?"

Prayers for Phoebe's family.
How would that prove anything during autopsy? Even if autopsy shows that the person was sexually active, it will say nothing of with whom that person was sexually active with.

adnoid
03-30-2010, 08:34 PM
How would prosecutor confirm sexual activity without her testimony?
She is dead and presumably no physical evidence has been collected.
Even if the boys told other people there was sexual activity, what is to stop them from denying it at trial?

I don't know what evidence the prosecutors have.

jjenny
03-30-2010, 08:38 PM
I don't know what evidence the prosecutors have.
No, we don't, but I can speculate.
It appears nothing was reported to authorities regarding any sexual activity at the time she was alive, so how would it be possible for prosecution to have any sort of physical evidence?

OrdinaryLife
03-30-2010, 09:22 PM
I do not blame her parents for any of this nor it's very tragic ending. It amazes that some would and do. When we as parents address the problem that causes great concern for our own beloveds, there is nothing that we wouldn't do for them. Nothing. We talk to our beloveds to learn the story, we go to the proper places/people and speak with them. We do the best that we can do. We trust. We believe. We continue to love and support our beloveds as only we know how.

If this family had any idea that their daughter would commit suicide, do you think they would not have tried, at every cost, to prevent it? Do you not think that for one moment they question everything they did, didn't do, could have done, should have done? Their heart pain must be beyond comprehension.

It eludes me how blame is so quick and harsh. I know the effects of suicide. Sadly, several family members for different "reasons". Until you understand total emotional/physical abuse, be careful to speak against those who are just as much victims as the person who killed themself is.

I hope MA takes this to the max and these "people" who abused her to the point she felt worthless are held accountable. They absolutely know right from wrong. I have no sympathy for any one of them. And, yes, I hope as an example for the future ugliness against another human being.

imvho

OrdinaryLife
03-30-2010, 09:25 PM
No, we don't, but I can speculate.
It appears nothing was reported to authorities regarding any sexual activity at the time she was alive, so how would it be possible for prosecution to have any sort of physical evidence?

Apparently, the prosecuters have something or it would not be part of the documents listed for cause.

I'm sure we will know at some point.

imvho

adnoid
03-31-2010, 12:19 AM
No, we don't, but I can speculate.
It appears nothing was reported to authorities regarding any sexual activity at the time she was alive, so how would it be possible for prosecution to have any sort of physical evidence?

If we don't know we can speculate either way, of course. But the evidence presented to the DA appears to be enough to let the case proceed, so I will speculate that there must be something there.

bamabeauty
03-31-2010, 07:45 AM
Mom of teen charged with bullying South Hadley H.S. student Phoebe Prince into suicide blames victim


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/03/30/2010-03-30_mom_of_teen_charged_with_bullying_south_hadley_ hs_student_phoebe_prince_into_sui.html#ixzz0jknZve mr






This mother absolutely makes me sick. I hope they find a way to charge her as well!!!!!!

adnoid
03-31-2010, 07:59 AM
...Mom of teen charged with bullying South Hadley H.S. student Phoebe Prince into suicide blames victim...

Having been around here as long as I have I knew this was coming. It always does, and it also explains how this can happen - these bully children were raised by amoral parents.

jjenny
03-31-2010, 08:02 AM
Mom of teen charged with bullying South Hadley H.S. student Phoebe Prince into suicide blames victim


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/03/30/2010-03-30_mom_of_teen_charged_with_bullying_south_hadley_ hs_student_phoebe_prince_into_sui.html#ixzz0jknZve mr






This mother absolutely makes me sick. I hope they find a way to charge her as well!!!!!!

Charge her with what?
Talking to the press? Do you know of the term "free speech?"

bamabeauty
03-31-2010, 08:21 AM
Charge her with what?
Talking to the press? Do you know of the term "free speech?"


You know I really to not care what they charge her with and I do not think that is what our forefathers had in mind with freedom of speech. Just because you are free to speak does not mean you should. I am heart5broken for the parents first having to lose their daughter and then having her blamed.

adnoid
03-31-2010, 08:31 AM
Charge her with what?
Talking to the press? Do you know of the term "free speech?"

The two are unrelated. The right to free speech is a protection against governmental prior restraint, you can still be prosecuted for the content of your speech or the actions others take as a result of your speech under various laws, and you can be subject to civil liability (money damages) for defamation.

If her child is a minor she can be held responsible for the actions of her child both civilly and criminally depending on the situation.

bamabeauty
03-31-2010, 08:37 AM
The two are unrelated. The right to free speech is a protection against governmental prior restraint, you can still be prosecuted for the content of your speech or the actions others take as a result of your speech under various laws, and you can be subject to civil liability (money damages) for defamation.

If her child is a minor she can be held responsible for the actions of her child both civilly and criminally depending on the situation.


That is what I said in an earlier post. i think if they started charging parents then parents of bullies mighty begin to take things more seriously.

jjenny
03-31-2010, 08:38 AM
You know I really to not care what they charge her with and I do not think that is what our forefathers had in mind with freedom of speech. Just because you are free to speak does not mean you should. I am heart5broken for the parents first having to lose their daughter and then having her blamed.
What is the point of saying she should be charged when she did not break any laws so there is nothing to charge her with?

jjenny
03-31-2010, 08:40 AM
The two are unrelated. The right to free speech is a protection against governmental prior restraint, you can still be prosecuted for the content of your speech or the actions others take as a result of your speech under various laws, and you can be subject to civil liability (money damages) for defamation.

If her child is a minor she can be held responsible for the actions of her child both civilly and criminally depending on the situation.

There is absolutely nothing in the content of her speech that would get her prosecuted.

kaelee2
03-31-2010, 08:42 AM
It happened here this weekend. A young man was bullied because he was "too short" and he commited suicide on Sunday. More at link: http://cbs11tv.com/local/jon.carmichael.teen.2.1601157.html

It is a shame that children cannot go to school and enjoy the experience of social interaction. I am deeply saddened by the youth of today with so little regard for human life.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 08:47 AM
It happened here this weekend. A young man was bullied because he was "too short" and he commited suicide on Sunday. More at link: http://cbs11tv.com/local/jon.carmichael.teen.2.1601157.html

It is a shame that children cannot go to school and enjoy the experience of social interaction. I am deeply saddened by the youth of today with so little regard for human life.

Oh my :(...these poor kids...thanks for posting this link, Kaelee...

Paladine
03-31-2010, 08:50 AM
At least 2 tied to Phoebes death have been expelled...some are asking for the principal and superintendent to resign...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1243562&format=comments&cnum=2

"Monday’s bombshell indictments of nine teens in the Phoebe Prince tragedy have parents peppering authorities with bullying complaints, including a flurry to one prosecutor whose “phone is ringing off the hook.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100331prosecutors_launch_criminal_crackdown_on_m ean_massachusetts_teens_2_kids_face_harass_rap_on_ heels_of_prince_case/

Paladine
03-31-2010, 08:59 AM
From Ireland...

"A portrait of a fun loving and popular young girl drawn from comments by friends both here in America and back in Ireland has emerged about Phoebe Prince, the tragic young Irish girl who was bullied to death.

Locals in Fanore a small village in West Clare, who remember her fondly are happy justice is now being served as news crosses the Atlantic this week that nine teenagers were charged in connection with the suicide of the local Irish girl .

Pat O’Donoghue, proprietor of O’Donoghue’s Bar in the small seaside town told Irishcentral.com on Tuesday the village welcomed the news that the teenagers in South Hadley, Massachusetts involved in bullying Phoebe before she took her own life will be held accountable."


http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Fun-loving-Phoebe-Prince-remembered-by-Irish-and-US-friends--89571197.html

Her Mom is American, her Dad, British...but I guess Phoebe was raised in Ireland...

"Phoebe moved from England to Fanore when she was two with her British father, Jeremy Prince, and her American mother, Annie O’Brien Prince, her sisters Lauren, Tessa and Bridget, and brother Simon."

Paladine
03-31-2010, 09:06 AM
They stalked her online...all over...
"The 15-year-old was allegedly targeted by a group known as the 'Mean Girls' after she started dating a popular senior football player at her school.
Pupils said Phoebe was called 'Irish slut' and 'whore' on Twitter, Craigslist, Facebook and Formspring.

Her books were knocked out of her hands, items were flung at her, her face was scribbled out of photographs on the school walls, and threatening text messages were sent to her cell phone."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1262487/Phoebe-Prince-9-US-teenagers-charged-suicide-death-Irish-new-girl.html#ixzz0jl7pm3VO

"'From information known to investigators thus far, it appears that Phoebe's death on January 14 followed a tortuous day for her, in which she was subjected to verbal harassment and threatened physical abuse.
'The harassment occurred while she studied in the school's library around lunch period, walked in the school's hallways near the end of the school day and after school, as she walked toward her home.'
She added that staff at the school, which cannot be identified for legal reasons, witnessed some of the bullying, but took no action.
'On the day of her death, primarily three individuals - one male and two females - were involved in the assaultive behaviour which appears to have been motivated by the group's displeasure with Phoebe's brief dating relationship with the male student that had ended some six weeks previous,' Mrs Scheibel said.
She added that numerous faculty members, staff members and administrators at South Hadley High School were aware of the bullying - some even witnessed physical abuse - and did nothing."

adnoid
03-31-2010, 09:12 AM
There is absolutely nothing in the content of her speech that would get her prosecuted.

I agree. I wasn't talking about prosecuting her for her speech in this instance. I was pointing out that "the right of free speech" is not an absolute bar to prosecution.

adnoid
03-31-2010, 09:13 AM
At least 2 tied to Phoebes death have been expelled...some are asking for the principal and superintendent to resign...

Good.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 09:13 AM
This is the journalist that was/is Phoebes angel, imo...Cullen brings Phoebe to life in his writings. I sent him an email thanking him for standing for Phoebe, yesterday. He emailed me back last night with a simple "Thanks". :) Might be a repeat but it's a moving piece...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/24/the_untouchable_mean_girls/

Last week, Phoebe was supposed to visit Ireland, where she grew up, and she was excited because she was going to see her father for the first time in months.

She did end up going back to Ireland after all, and when her father saw her she was in a casket.

Phoebe’s family decided to bury her in County Clare. They wanted an ocean between her and the people who hounded her to the grave."

Linda7NJ
03-31-2010, 09:13 AM
I do not blame her parents for any of this nor it's very tragic ending. It amazes that some would and do. When we as parents address the problem that causes great concern for our own beloveds, there is nothing that we wouldn't do for them. Nothing. We talk to our beloveds to learn the story, we go to the proper places/people and speak with them. We do the best that we can do. We trust. We believe. We continue to love and support our beloveds as only we know how.

If this family had any idea that their daughter would commit suicide, do you think they would not have tried, at every cost, to prevent it? Do you not think that for one moment they question everything they did, didn't do, could have done, should have done? Their heart pain must be beyond comprehension.

It eludes me how blame is so quick and harsh. I know the effects of suicide. Sadly, several family members for different "reasons". Until you understand total emotional/physical abuse, be careful to speak against those who are just as much victims as the person who killed themself is.

I hope MA takes this to the max and these "people" who abused her to the point she felt worthless are held accountable. They absolutely know right from wrong. I have no sympathy for any one of them. And, yes, I hope as an example for the future ugliness against another human being.

imvho


I'm sure her parents never even considered the possibility that she would have killed herself. That really isn't the point. They WERE aware she was relentlessly tormented and abused and yet they continued to send her back for more. That's what I have a HUGE problem with.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 09:25 AM
CNN is asking, should bullying be prosecuted? Have your say, sleuth's!

http://connecttheworld.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/31/should-bullying-be-prosecuted/

raeann
03-31-2010, 09:27 AM
No, we don't, but I can speculate.
It appears nothing was reported to authorities regarding any sexual activity at the time she was alive, so how would it be possible for prosecution to have any sort of physical evidence?

They will not need any physical evidence most likely. These kids were using electronic media to torture the girl, so there will be e mails, texts, and voice mails to present as evidence. There are most likely also photos and videos included in that. Since these kids chose this method of abuse, it is highly unlikely that they would not also use cell phone cameras and computers to make videos of whatever they cared to, and most likely sent copies of such to numerous other kids who were not directly involved. IMO.....the same weapons that they were using to attack this girl with will be the main evidence that will prove the charges against them. Also, remember, they have interviewed these kids and many others, so they may have actual confessions of such behavior to back up their other evidence.

jmoo

Paladine
03-31-2010, 09:28 AM
Anger turns toward Staff in Phoebe's case! Good!

"Enraged by revelations that staff members at South Hadley High School knew that Phoebe Prince was the target of withering harassment long before her death, residents and public officials yesterday angrily accused the school system of neglecting vulnerable students and called on top administrators to resign.

"Now we find out they knew all along, and did nothing,’’ said Joe Marois, who runs a local construction company. “People are just bewildered they didn’t step in, and are wondering why they weren’t included with the students in the prosecution.’’
http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2010/03/31/anger_turns_toward_school_staff_in_bullying_case/

Paladine
03-31-2010, 09:34 AM
Public opinion sides with D.A...

Townspeople expressed satisfaction that there have been criminal complaints against the students suspected of bullying.

"I'm glad there are charges because something has to be done. They are going to pay for their actions," 77-year-old Jeanne M. Garon said.

http://www.masslive.com/metrowest/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-25/1270019927315230.xml&coll=1

Linda7NJ
03-31-2010, 09:35 AM
Anger turns toward Staff in Phoebe's case! Good!


http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2010/03/31/anger_turns_toward_school_staff_in_bullying_case/


IMO Any school employee that witnessed what was going on and stood by and did nothing, should be criminally charged and fired. Teachers are mandated reporters...how could they do nothing????????? I wouldn't want morally bankrupt teachers to come in contact with any child!

bamabeauty
03-31-2010, 09:45 AM
In wake of Phoebe Prince case in Massachusetts, families across U.S. fear bullies preying on kids


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/03/31/2010-03-31_ny_state_of_bullying_families_live_in_fear_as_k ids_fall_prey_to_menacing_attacks.html#ixzz0jlHhmK 1F

t93
03-31-2010, 09:47 AM
I was going to stay away from this thread but I won't, because what I say may be relevant.

Before I was born, my Italian American father took a prestigious teaching job for the science department at an affluent German American private school. He is brilliant man with great integrity. He raised all of his babies to maximize their IQ's, as intelligence is his number one priority.

My sister and I were ostracized. My only friends were the mentally retarded students, as we were considered that level-because our dad was foreign looking, we had brown eyes, and were strange. I always knew I wasn't the piece of crap kids told me I was. I held on until my junior year, then quit school and ran away to get away from my tormentors-some kids kill themselves, some turn to drugs and alcohol.My parents were very surprised at how bad it was for me because I never told them until I had left. I broke their hearts, but I had to get away from those people. I went on to college but I will never be normal. I am too damaged to ever be fixed either.

There are always consequences to bullying. I am always conscious of bullying and have tried to be an activist.You know what administrators tell me about bullying? That either it happens when adults are not around, or that the kids who are bullied seem to set things off in other kids. I follow research closely and found new info that some kids who are bullied can't read subtle facial expressions, such as the way eyes narrow before someone attacks, so I have devoted time teaching my two year old to read emotions with flash cards meant for autistic children. Will it work? Who knows. I have 2 older children that weren't exactly popular,so even best efforts can't always stop it. I am not sure we will ever completely be able to stop bullying as long as we cannot figure out a way to help kids feel powerful without making someone else feel small.I can't figure out if those kids who bullied her were jealous of the attention she got or if they didn't like how different her family was(because they were immigrants) but either way administrators don't know how to fix it. The new zero tolerance crap doesn't do squat, however. They just do the crap off campus.

jjenny
03-31-2010, 09:52 AM
I'm sure her parents never even considered the possibility that she would have killed herself. That really isn't the point. They WERE aware she was relentlessly tormented and abused and yet they continued to send her back for more. That's what I have a HUGE problem with.

Again, to a lot of people it's not an option to take their child out of school. Usually the child is supposed to go to school at the place of residence, so it's not like the parents can transfer the child in any school they like.
And frankly I don't see how keeping a 15 year old at home is a good option either.

Wise Old Owl
03-31-2010, 10:05 AM
Again, to a lot of people it's not an option to take their child out of school. Usually the child is supposed to go to school at the place of residence, so it's not like the parents can transfer the child in any school they like.
And frankly I don't see how keeping a 15 year old at home is a good option either.
There are "education options" available - even to working parents that can't afford private schooling. I know this because I am one.

I took my 16 yr old out of her high school right before Xmas this year. Not because of "bullying" per se - but because this school is a violent powder keg and she wasn't learning anything. I was tired of constantly having to go to the office for problems the administration should have been taking care of; filthy kitchen equipment in the culinary classes - mold in the refrigerators, rat feces along the back counters :eek:, then there was the teacher that assigned this horriffic, controversial article about pregnant teenage girls and how they "shouldn't tie their self esteem to their vaginas" - YES, that was in the article and the teacher (older woman) could NOT understand why I was having a problem with this! Oh, by the way, there were 2 girls in this very class that were pregnant at the time and one hadn't told anyone (other than a few friends - my DD being one). I was scared to death that either of those girls would try to hurt themselves or their babies!!!! There are many more problems with this school - point being - OUT SHE CAME. She is considered technically "home schooled" however, she is finishing her high school online - no cost. We have a state run online high school - however, out of state students can enroll as well - I think that does cost, but its minimal - plus other states probably have their own too.

Our schools need HUGE HUGE HUGE changes, and they need them NOW! Why we are not taking care of our greatest assests, treasures, gifts from God, our future, IDK!

One big thing would be to get the politics out of education - yea I know - impossible. That is where it has to start though.

Prayers to Phoebe and her family.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 10:27 AM
A bullying specialist was at the school before Phoebe died...I want to know more about THAT...

The 10-week probe is not over yet, Scheibel said, indicating that charges may also be forthcoming against at least one more person.

Given the almost four-month duration of Prince’s ordeal – including taunting and physical threats – and the number of students involved in the bullying, school officials have some culpability.

During an interview on Tuesday on CBS’ “The Early Show,” nationally known anti-bullying constant Barbara Coloroso, who worked with South Hadley school officials months before Prince’s death, faulted the school for not fully following the advice. While South Hadley High “had policies in place,” Coloroso said, they need to be “toughened up.” http://www.masslive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/03/editorial_finding_justice_for.html

jjenny
03-31-2010, 10:29 AM
There are "education options" available - even to working parents that can't afford private schooling. I know this because I am one.

I took my 16 yr old out of her high school right before Xmas this year. Not because of "bullying" per se - but because this school is a violent powder keg and she wasn't learning anything. I was tired of constantly having to go to the office for problems the administration should have been taking care of; filthy kitchen equipment in the culinary classes - mold in the refrigerators, rat feces along the back counters :eek:, then there was the teacher that assigned this horriffic, controversial article about pregnant teenage girls and how they "shouldn't tie their self esteem to their vaginas" - YES, that was in the article and the teacher (older woman) could NOT understand why I was having a problem with this! Oh, by the way, there were 2 girls in this very class that were pregnant at the time and one hadn't told anyone (other than a few friends - my DD being one). I was scared to death that either of those girls would try to hurt themselves or their babies!!!! There are many more problems with this school - point being - OUT SHE CAME. She is considered technically "home schooled" however, she is finishing her high school online - no cost. We have a state run online high school - however, out of state students can enroll as well - I think that does cost, but its minimal - plus other states probably have their own too.

Our schools need HUGE HUGE HUGE changes, and they need them NOW! Why we are not taking care of our greatest assests, treasures, gifts from God, our future, IDK!

One big thing would be to get the politics out of education - yea I know - impossible. That is where it has to start though.

Prayers to Phoebe and her family.
I presume somebody is at home to watch your daughter?
Otherwise, how is that going to work if there is no one home to watch the child while he or she is learning on line?

Paladine
03-31-2010, 10:32 AM
THIS passes for leadership???

"The chairman of the South Hadley School Committee pooh-poohed a prosecutor’s investigation into the death of Phoebe Prince yesterday, questioning key findings even as the superintendent of schools remained on a West Coast vacation amid the upheaval.

School Committee Chairman Edward J. Boisselle threw cold water on Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth D. Scheibel’s announcement Monday that “Phoebe’s harassment was common knowledge” in the high school.

“I don’t know how that’s factually based,” Boisselle said. “Did they go interview all 700 kids at the school and found out that more than 300 knew about it? Isn’t that the only way you could tell that they factually knew about it?”

"As for Superintendent of Schools Gus A. Sayer, he is attending a wedding on the West Coast and remained on vacation yesterday, officials said.

“There was no way for him to know that the DA was going to be speaking,” Boisselle said. “Anyway, Dr. Sayer has never taken the amount of vacation that he has coming to him.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1243564

amandab
03-31-2010, 10:37 AM
If I was a parent with a student in that district, I would be mortified. This "leadership" is deplorable at best.

SuziQ
03-31-2010, 10:38 AM
Well I think I've got a grasp on what the problem is....according to Boisselle and the one mother we've heard from.....There is no problem!

SuziQ
03-31-2010, 10:41 AM
So what's he saying that the bullying is not serious unless 300 or more kids new about it? I'm really having a hard time wrapping my mind around Boisselle's comment.

Wise Old Owl
03-31-2010, 10:43 AM
I presume somebody is at home to watch your daughter?
Otherwise, how is that going to work if there is no one home to watch the child while he or she is learning on line?
well yes, I usually am. However, at times when I work outside the home (I have been lucky enough that I work inline as well) - we have elderly neighbors across the street - plus she is 16 and a very responsible person.

You are right about little ones though - someone would have to be there.

I'm not saying homeschooling or online schooling is the answer - its not! I don't particularly like the disadvantages of it - but its better than worrying every morning about what's going to happen today.

There are other alternatives, other answers, other cures for our education in America. Its just sad that most of them will never come to be because the politicians won't keep their hands out of the cookie jar.

Seems like this school district has a superintendent like the one we have here. Nowhere in America are our kids coming first (I shouldn't say that - I'm sure there are some smaller districts that are really doing a good job - but certainly not in our big cities - where there is big money)

adnoid
03-31-2010, 10:44 AM
Well I think I've got a grasp on what the problem is....according to Boisselle and the one mother we've heard from.....There is no problem!

Actually, according to what they've been saying, there IS a problem - Phoebe's suicide has seriously inconvenienced them and their children.

I find it telling that the "parents" (in the genetic sense only, they are hardly role models or even decent human beings) always say that people "don't know the whole story" but never follow up with the supposedly missing information.

The tormentors should go to prison. Any parents who defend them should go to prison and lose everything they have. That would be a start toward justice, and provide an example to other "parents" that there are consequences to raising your children to be unfeeling, uncaring sociopaths.

In my opinion.

amandab
03-31-2010, 10:47 AM
So what's he saying that the bullying is not serious unless 300 or more kids new about it? I'm really having a hard time wrapping my mind around Boisselle's comment.

IMO he's grasping at straws and splitting hairs to prove to himself that he's not at fault.

elle1919
03-31-2010, 10:50 AM
From article: Angeles Chanon admitted that her daughter, Sharon Chanon Velazquez, 16, had once been suspended from school for verbally abusing Phoebe - but blamed the bullied girl for starting it.

"(Sharon) exchanged a couple of words with her," Chanon told the Boston Herald. "Phoebe was calling her names. They're teenagers. They call names."

Chanon insisted her daughter never "physically assaulted" Phoebe, no matter what the District Attorney says.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/03/30/2010-03-30_mom_of_teen_charged_with_bullying_south_hadley_ hs_student_phoebe_prince_into_sui.html#ixzz0jlUFV9 B1

Perhaps someone might explain to Sharon's mother that unlike the scars from physical abuse, the wounds from verbal and mental abuse are not so quick to heal. Quite often this " exchange of words" ( as she put it) requires love, compassion, understanding and more often that not professional help to work through the more serious cases.

Another sad note it appears that recently a group of parents joined together to form the South Hadley Anti Bullying Task force. This groups leader had a daughter that had recently dropped out of school because of the harassment, anyway, the leader was just killed in a motorcycle accident last week. Very sad but I hope that the other parents pull together and continue on for this much needed cause in their community.

OrdinaryLife
03-31-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm sure her parents never even considered the possibility that she would have killed herself. That really isn't the point. They WERE aware she was relentlessly tormented and abused and yet they continued to send her back for more. That's what I have a HUGE problem with.

They were aware of the problems and continued to do what they could. It was over a short time frame of 3 months. The school suspended one student (the daughter of the woman who blames the victim). I will say that I would have done the exact same thing. Kept going regarding talking to my child and school administration.

I do not understand the harsh judgment against parents who did do the best they could. Blows my mind.....

Paladine
03-31-2010, 10:58 AM
I was never bullied. Lucky, I guess. And I never bullied, either...but my eldest was bullied...because he was smart. Very smart. They called him the "mad scientist". He had little in common with those his age. At 8, he watched Nova, a science program, while classmates raved about the Simpson's. I complained...and went to the schools - we moved alot- I was told "Boys will be boys" by one principal. I kept telling my Son throughout High School, "Hang on...it'll all be better in University...there will be more people like you, smart will be cool then..." and I'd tell him, "Those "cool" kids will be working at McDonalds when you drive through in your BMW".

He made it. He's graduating with a B.A. this year...and working toward a Master's in Computer Science and he has a great social life with smart, interesting friends.

I'm so grateful...I just wish no child would have to experience such pain. That's why I'm here.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 11:16 AM
Justice for Phoebe's youtube channel...

http://www.youtube.com/user/JusticeForPhoebe

Paladine
03-31-2010, 11:21 AM
"Somewhere in South Hadley, if Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth D. Scheibel is correct, there are adults, including school officials, whose cowardice was as much to blame for Phoebe Prince’s suicide as any adolescent cruelty.

Once they became aware of what the heartless crowd was doing, they, too, had a role to play, either becoming a part of Phoebe’s solution, or one more part of her problem.

According to this indignant DA, they chose the latter, deciding to look the other way, allowing the mob to run amok, mercilessly hounding this 15-year-old kid until the only escape she could imagine came at the end of a rope."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1243545

Paladine
03-31-2010, 11:55 AM
A couple of Phoebe related facebook links...

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=314134088145&ref=share&v=info

http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=267095363109&share_id=278762659753&comments=1#!/pages/Expel-the-three-girls-who-caused-Phoebe-Prince-to-commit-suicide/267095363109

Paladine
03-31-2010, 11:58 AM
Coming up on CNN, shortly...(11:57 est) a friend of Phoebe will be talking about why she was bullied...well, the excuses they used, at any rate...

amandab
03-31-2010, 12:01 PM
Paladine-

I just wanted to take a second to thank you for keeping Phoebe's case in the forefront.

Sadly, your MLK quote applies to this situation perfectly.

-Amanda

Paladine
03-31-2010, 12:01 PM
You know...I've been thinking. Once I put aside my anger at these kids, I feel an inkling of compassion. Why? Because these Student's NEEDED supervision. NEEDED boundaries. And the adults, by doing nothing, told them their actions WERE acceptable. Those officials failed the accused, as well, imo.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 12:04 PM
Paladine-

I just wanted to take a second to thank you for keeping Phoebe's case in the forefront.

Sadly, your MLK quote applies to this situation perfectly.

-Amanda

Thanks, Amanda :) And I thought the same thing about the quote, yesterday...sadly...

OrdinaryLife
03-31-2010, 12:05 PM
Coming up on CNN, shortly...(11:57 est) a friend of Phoebe will be talking about why she was bullied...well, the excuses they used, at any rate...

On now....

elle1919
03-31-2010, 12:07 PM
I am not able to watch any if someone could post a recap I would appreciate it very much. : )

amandab
03-31-2010, 12:14 PM
I am not able to watch any if someone could post a recap I would appreciate it very much. : )

Same here, pretty please?

Paladine
03-31-2010, 12:17 PM
CNN: It was Phoebe's friend, Nick Shebas (sp ?), who was also a pallbearer. He said it was jealousy. The football player was dating Kayla Narly, and he had a relationship of sorts with Phoebe, that started the feud.

Prince Family spokesman recounted the last walk home, an energy drink being thrown from a car, taunts of "Irish slut, Irish whore..." and he said they said "why don't you go home and kill yourself"...he qualified that taunt with a "supposedly" or something...he said she then went home, took a scarf her Sister gave her for Christmas, and hung herself. He said this was beyond "bullying"...this was "persecution".

They mentioned the outrage in town at officials and calls for the resignation of the Principal and Superintendent.

That's all I remember...for now.

eve
03-31-2010, 12:24 PM
The two are unrelated. The right to free speech is a protection against governmental prior restraint, you can still be prosecuted for the content of your speech or the actions others take as a result of your speech under various laws, and you can be subject to civil liability (money damages) for defamation.

If her child is a minor she can be held responsible for the actions of her child both civilly and criminally depending on the situation.

Right Adnoid, and have not read whole thread so someone may have said this, but free speech does not extend to inciting danger. Classic example, can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

I think regulation of the social networking on the internet is sadly lacking. The proliferation of bullying, trolling, hacking, defamation, malicious malware, spyware and identity theft is incredible and virtually (no pun intended) unchecked. It is disgusting. Laws must keep pace. Write your congressional reps.

I am a teacher and can tell you meanness is at an all-time high. It is nothing new but people used to be afraid of the consequences from schools and more importantly, parents. Not so much anymore. For example, we used to get by with skipping school or smoking on school grounds but if we threw a punch or harassed someone we were out on our azzes and our parents supported the school. Now, truancy and smoking are punished to an almost absurd degree while bullies run rampant.

Unfortunately this pervasive idea that parents must protect kids from absolutely everything harmful is also one reason why kids doing wrong go unpunished as well. Sorry, know it won't be a popular take, but I believe it. For every legitimate complaint I hear about a kid who needs to be protected, on the other side you can bet there is a parent who will fight to the death to protect their little bullying darling, doing anything they can to see that the kid avoids any consequences. Schools get overwhelmed with the arduous fact-finding and avoid the whole thing.

I have told my kids, I will always help you, but you have to work to keep yourself bully-proof in this environment. Bullying is heartbreaking, the victim's response early-on is key. It is not about blaming the victim, it is about facing reality.

My heart goes out to this family.

Eve

daisy7
03-31-2010, 12:28 PM
This is the journalist that was/is Phoebes angel, imo...Cullen brings Phoebe to life in his writings. I sent him an email thanking him for standing for Phoebe, yesterday. He emailed me back last night with a simple "Thanks". :) Might be a repeat but it's a moving piece...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/24/the_untouchable_mean_girls/

From the link, BBM:

“And so instead of confronting the evil among us, the reality that there are bullies roaming the corridors at South Hadley High, people are blaming the victim, looking for excuses why a 15-year-old girl would do this. People are in denial.’’

reen
03-31-2010, 01:14 PM
I have told my kids, I will always help you, but you have to work to keep yourself bully-proof in this environment. Bullying is heartbreaking, the victim's response early-on is key. It is not about blaming the victim, it is about facing reality.

My heart goes out to this family.

Eve

I appreciate your perspective as a teacher in the midst of the maelstrom that is public school, Eve. And I back you 100%.

So true that children have to learn to be "bully-proof" (read "self-reliant/self-defensive" to me), and not solely depend on those around them to stand up for them. Just yesterday I talked with my kindergartener as we drove home from school...she was telling me how some classmates were pushing and shoving in line and "not giving me my space." Then when she told them to stop they made whiny baby-voice taunts...you know how 6-year-olds can be. She stood her ground and in her strongest voice said "STOP. NOW."

My presumption is that she had her teacher's attention at that point (the one with the "No Bully Zone" poster on her classroom wall, LOL). I told my daughter that I was very proud of her and to keep standing up for herself and not take that crap. I hope in middle and high school and beyond, she continues to defend her boundaries and maintain self-respect and awareness of her surroundings, in the face of how very cruel people can be for no earthly reason.

I wish, I wish, that Phoebe had gone home and talked to her family again, or talked with a counselor at school, instead of the path she chose. I suppose everyone wishes that. But I hope she is at peace now.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 01:34 PM
a local topix link with some VERY interesting comments around the time of Phoebe's death. "Gus" is an official, I can't recall offhand which one, the principal or super...

http://www.topix.com/city/south-hadley-ma/2010/01/investigators-trying-to-determine-if-apparent-south-hadley-suicide#comments

raeann
03-31-2010, 01:50 PM
a local topix link with some VERY interesting comments around the time of Phoebe's death. "Gus" is an official, I can't recall offhand which one, the principal or super...

http://www.topix.com/city/south-hadley-ma/2010/01/investigators-trying-to-determine-if-apparent-south-hadley-suicide#comments

Well, that was an interesting link. As of January 27 some random poster on a topix page knew the names of the EXACT four girls who were responsible for the torment, yet the school claimed that it didn't know what was going on. The four girls named by the poster are the four charged as adults so far in addition to the two boys.

jmoo

Paladine
03-31-2010, 01:52 PM
Well, that was an interesting link. As of January 27 some random poster on a topix page knew the names of the EXACT four girls who were responsible for the torment, yet the school claimed that it didn't know what was going on. The four girls named by the poster are the four charged as adults so far in addition to the two boys.

jmoo

I noticed that. AND...a person also knew about the taunts on the way home...and he POSTED on Jan. 17th!

Jan 17, 2010 I work with a kid who was close to her. he has shown me provacative text messages that she sent him. When I saw the news last night, I immesiatly put 2 and 2 together. When I sAw him@ work today I asked him if he was okay and or whatever. He told me that she texted him before she took her own life, that on her walk home from school today, a car drove past jet and either the passenger and or the driver hung there heads out the wind and yelled sexual derrogatory remarks at her. According to my source.whom I know is 100% accurate. They called her a whore; ect. Those are the fact. It's none of my business

http://www.topix.com/city/south-hadley-ma/2010/01/investigators-trying-to-determine-if-apparent-south-hadley-suicide?threadid=ED5OJRIKHNRH54LA

Paladine
03-31-2010, 01:58 PM
How much could she have told her parents? She likely felt trapped. It was alot of sexually abusive taunts, from my understanding. She might have had to admit she "did it" or sent texts? I wonder and fear she felt shame...:(

eve
03-31-2010, 02:01 PM
I appreciate your perspective as a teacher in the midst of the maelstrom that is public school, Eve. And I back you 100%.

So true that children have to learn to be "bully-proof" (read "self-reliant/self-defensive" to me), and not solely depend on those around them to stand up for them. Just yesterday I talked with my kindergartener as we drove home from school...she was telling me how some classmates were pushing and shoving in line and "not giving me my space." Then when she told them to stop they made whiny baby-voice taunts...you know how 6-year-olds can be. She stood her ground and in her strongest voice said "STOP. NOW."

My presumption is that she had her teacher's attention at that point (the one with the "No Bully Zone" poster on her classroom wall, LOL). I told my daughter that I was very proud of her and to keep standing up for herself and not take that crap. I hope in middle and high school and beyond, she continues to defend her boundaries and maintain self-respect and awareness of her surroundings, in the face of how very cruel people can be for no earthly reason.

I wish, I wish, that Phoebe had gone home and talked to her family again, or talked with a counselor at school, instead of the path she chose. I suppose everyone wishes that. But I hope she is at peace now.

Hi reen,

Good for your daughter. The first line of defense always rests with the victim herself. Children who react this way, with confidence, are much less likely to be targeted. Those who run to the nearest adult have always been picked on. There are so many venues for the harassment to take place now and they are more far-reaching, too. I tell my students they cannot allow themselves to care about what bullies think of them, but must work on making sure that the bullies know they don't want to mess with them, usually because the student does not allow the bully to have power over them. They are looking for power, do not given them any. Is it fair or "safe" that kids have to deal with this? No. That ain't changin' the fact.

Eve

Paladine
03-31-2010, 02:12 PM
Youtube channel with comments from a purported South Hadley student. The student's comments are interesting. Again, notice the date...

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=6kQxVRl_O3g&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3D6kQxVRl_O3g

Paladine
03-31-2010, 02:14 PM
This case could be double-edged. We are showing children they matter once they die from abuse...we need to make sure they know, from this date forward, they don't have to die to matter, to get help, to get protection. Enough, it's over!

laura08
03-31-2010, 02:27 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/03/31/2010-03-31_ny_state_of_bullying_families_live_in_fear_as_k ids_fall_prey_to_menacing_attacks.html

Bullying needs to stop. Here is another article with pictures of children that have been bullied. :( Very sad. And another one who committed suicide.

raeann
03-31-2010, 02:40 PM
They must all be so proud of themselves, now. When one Googles South Hadley, literally dozens of articles about this incident show up. It is going to be the first thing read by anyone looking to buy a home there, to start a business, anyone thinking of visiting the area for shopping or perhaps a business meeting. The complete denial and lack of response by the school officials will reflect poorly on this community for YEARS to come.

jmoo

Edited to add.....I do not for a minute blame all of the community for this....there has been a wonderful response by both students, parents and community members condemning these bullies and their attacks. I am personally just extremely disappointed that school officials are responding so poorly to this whole incident.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 02:49 PM
I found this story about the school bungling the case dated Jan/10...the comments are interesting, as well...it seems to not be available on the Boston site, now...

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100130bullying_expert_south_hadley_case_bungled_ by_officials/

but here's a link to the same story, I think...

Bullying expert: South Hadley case bungled by officials - Gathering of The Vibes

essies
03-31-2010, 02:57 PM
:headache:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCukH9Th18k

Paladine
03-31-2010, 04:53 PM
Three of the nine teens accused of the brutal bullying of South Hadley High School freshman Phoebe Prince will be arraigned early next week, court officials announced today.

Sean Mulveyhill, 17, Kayla Narey, 17, both of South Hadley, and Austin Renaud, 18, of Springfield are set to appear in court at 2 p.m. on Tuesday, according to the criminal clerk’s office at the Hampshire Superior Court in Northampton

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100331arraignment_tuesday_for_3_teens_in_phoebe_ prince_bullying_case/srvc=home&position=recent

Paladine
03-31-2010, 05:08 PM
I had read one of the bullies, Kayla Narey, was a jock chick, this photo seems to support that thinking...photos of her on the field hockey team and lacrosse. I understand she's being charged as an adult, so I assume we can sleuth her a bit...dated Oct/09...I wonder how much the bullies being "sports stars" affected their punishment or lack there of. I recall the guy, Mulveyhill (sp ?), was a star Football player, too.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://media.masslive.com/republican/photo/-b9c53c8080b6dbfa_custom_autox155.jpg&imgrefurl=http://topics.masslive.com/tag/kayla-narey/photos.html&h=155&w=128&sz=69&tbnid=h-OZ-_aUq9FCXM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKayla%2BNarey&hl=en&usg=__VmMjPHWA94N54Uv8L79Cj5_V5fQ=&ei=8bizS5rvIoKglAfR_OW7BA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image&ved=0CB8Q9QEwBQ

KAYLA NAREY (South Hadley) - The junior forward has great instincts and natural skill for the game. ... Was second on the team in goals scored with 11 and finished with 14 points on the season, good for third and fourth in the Central League, respectively. ... Scored the lone goal in western Massachusetts championship loss to Smith Academy. ... An all-league selection. ... A two-time first-team selection.


http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gazettenet.com/files/images/20100101-011215-pic-602254912.display.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gazettenet.com/2010/01/01/import-no-headline-2&usg=__1k1vEo9-h7nyV8xBaV_XFX3ku_Y=&h=660&w=551&sz=45&hl=en&start=1&sig2=v1-FrClKcGmYv0xARQ_wFA&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XDeb_pJQe2cv_M:&tbnh=138&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKayla%2BNarey%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa %3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GFRE_en%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=gbqzS6TLLNvI_gb7zdD8CA

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gazettenet.com/files/images/20091115-021325-pic-488772833.display.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gazettenet.com/2009/11/14/falcons-win-field-hockey-title&usg=__AfFfSnQn44CfWuCAc9xmGj5Dlys=&h=509&w=600&sz=48&hl=en&start=11&sig2=phQVTR8OAPjWJFgC9AF7wA&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=p3gEJUa8WoS-ZM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKayla%2BNarey%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa %3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GFRE_en%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=ob2zS66SOYP68AaG0aXsCg

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://southhadleygirlslacrosse.vnsports.com/cachedcontent/23987/photos/head/small/262264.jpg&imgrefurl=http://southhadleygirlslacrosse.vnsports.com/rosters/player.asp%3Fid%3D164694&usg=__Ytu0Da9s_7s15uko825HVkR1A8c=&h=150&w=200&sz=4&hl=en&start=3&sig2=hMSzhoWLWliGfrCRR9K_zQ&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=CwVpgx9kx9e7NM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKayla%2BNarey%2Blacrosse%26um%3D1%26h l%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GFRE_enCA363CA364%26tbs %3Disch:1&ei=Yb-zS8aXHcSblgf7heW5BA

THIS is the photo that was associated with her profile...google still has it, she deleted it...

http://southhadleygirlslacrosse.vnsports.com/cachedcontent/23987/photos/head/small/262264.jpg

Paladine
03-31-2010, 05:41 PM
Watch them fawn over him, the fella charged as an Adult with statutory rape...he's a football star! I guess that made it okay...this is Sept/09...and have a peek at the comments!

"South Hadley's Sean Mulveyhill leads Tigers to a 48-26 win over Holyoke High School football team"


South Hadley made a mountain out of a Mulveyhill.

Sean Mulveyhill led a dominating Tigers running game to a 48-26 victory over Holyoke, marking the fifth straight year the South Hadley High School football team has bested its rival.

"This is a huge rivalry," South Hadley head coach Ray Ferro said. "Beating Holyoke five years in a row is something we take a lot of pride in. No team wants to be the first to lose."


Mulveyhill touched the ball 18 times for 244 yards and two touchdowns as the spearhead of a ground game that compiled a whopping 419 yards.

"I don't think I've ever coached a player with as much passion for the game as Sean," Ferro said. "He eats, sleeps and breathes football."

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://blog.masslive.com/sports_impact/2009/09/large_912shhfb.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/09/south_hadleys_sean_mulveyhill.html&usg=__q612-WFSAeO7f_baHSJDeyLZARI=&h=335&w=453&sz=47&hl=en&start=1&sig2=ap-SyVuaRdLFehoVUb6K0w&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=kAnrptfnImSPLM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsean%2Bmulveyhill%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den% 26rlz%3D1T4GFRE_enCA363CA364%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=kMCzS5zLLcTflgf_sem5BA

Here's his myspace page...

http://www.myspace.com/46302267

or is it this one? 2 Mulveyhill's...I read there was another star football Mulveyhill...brothers or cousins?

http://www.myspace.com/mulveyhill14 ETA...the first link appears to be Sean, the second, Nick...Sean is the dude charged. Wonder if the Mulveyhill's are the star football family in town...and notice a comment on Sean's page, congratulating him on being Captain in 2010...

Paladine
03-31-2010, 06:07 PM
and the link to his myspace photos...Sean Mulveyhill's...

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=46302267&albumId=233382

jjenny
03-31-2010, 07:35 PM
well yes, I usually am. However, at times when I work outside the home (I have been lucky enough that I work inline as well) - we have elderly neighbors across the street - plus she is 16 and a very responsible person.

You are right about little ones though - someone would have to be there.

I'm not saying homeschooling or online schooling is the answer - its not! I don't particularly like the disadvantages of it - but its better than worrying every morning about what's going to happen today.

There are other alternatives, other answers, other cures for our education in America. Its just sad that most of them will never come to be because the politicians won't keep their hands out of the cookie jar.

Seems like this school district has a superintendent like the one we have here. Nowhere in America are our kids coming first (I shouldn't say that - I'm sure there are some smaller districts that are really doing a good job - but certainly not in our big cities - where there is big money)

Not just little. I think living 15 year old at home alone with a computer would be a recipe for disaster.

concentric
03-31-2010, 08:18 PM
I'm in the trenches on this bullying issue, and I've got to say, this particular case is very complex.

In the case of my son--He is being bullied by many different students over the course of two years because of his skin color and ethnicity. He has pale skin and is of Irish and other European descent. I have been to the school over 10X to talk with counselors, principal, and they are working on it. It's difficult because in my situation, I would describe the bullying as pertaining to the same issue, but "scattershot," in other words, different bulliers at different times.

Now, may I say that at least one "stay away" contract has been put in place by the administrators.

IMO, bullying in any form should not be tolerated. My case is cut and dry: bullying because of skin color and ethnicity.

But this case is not so simple.

We are dealing with multiple levels.

And no, I don't believe that leaving the school is the answer. It only serves to perpetuate the bullying on some other student. IMO, there are many other reasons why just withdrawing the student is not the right course, IMO.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 08:18 PM
From January...

"South Hadley High Principal Daniel Smith sent out a letter to parents of students at the high school. In the letter, he called Prince "smart, charming, and as is the case with many teenagers, complicated . . . We will never know the specific reasons why she chose to take her life," Boston.com reported."
"Smith said the bullying often surrounded arguments about teen dating, Boston.com reported.

In the letter to parents, dated Jan. 20, Smith addressed the disagreements: "These disagreements centered on relationship/dating issues. School personnel immediately intervened . . . and both counseled and provided consequences as the situations required. It is what happened after those incidents were over that is cause for significant concern.’
Even after her death, bullies posted disparaging messages on her Facebook memorial page. The comments had to be removed from the page."
http://www.listown.com/group/phoebe-prince-picture-9642

Paladine
03-31-2010, 08:25 PM
Well, school officials can't claim ignorance, they just had a workshop this past fall...

Last fall, the South Hadley School Department had a nationally-recognized expert on bullying, Barbara Colorosa, conduct a full-day workshop for the staff and an evening program for the community. The high school had also recently reviewed and revised its policies with regard to bullying, Sayer said.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/south_hadley_high_school_stude.html

Wise Old Owl
03-31-2010, 08:48 PM
Not just little. I think living 15 year old at home alone with a computer would be a recipe for disaster.
it could be....there comes a time as a parent (well actually many times) that you have to take a leap of faith and trust your child. If you raise the child with the right morals and values and have developed a trusting relationship - then no, not necessarily a recipe for disaster. Right now I'm dealing with letting her go to the beach with her friend(s). Its spring break here and the predators flock to where the kids are. I have to let go - DH is always telling me this - but I still worry. I've had talks with her about my concerns and that as long as she exhibits personal responsibility and accountability here at home, I can expect her to do that with or without me. You have to let them grow up - but in this world and this day, its scary out there.

adnoid
03-31-2010, 09:42 PM
Right Adnoid...

You just told a male he was right. This is one of the signs of the Apocalypse.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 10:23 PM
"It’s been just over a day since the high school freshman took her own.
The family of Prince, too upset to speak on camera, says Phoebe was smart, kind and loving, but often a target for bullying, something that her fellow students confirm.

"I mean someone told her to go hang herself, and I don't really know who that was, but she was getting bullied by some people, because there were people talking about her and I guess she didn't like being hated," said Jessica Chapdelaine"

This is the second reference I've seen to someone telling Phoebe to "go hang herself". The first was the Prince family spokesperson on CNN today...he used "allegedly"...

http://www.cbs3springfield.com/news/local/81790182.html

"South Hadley Superintendent Gus Sayer is aware of the bullying claims, and says it’s a subject the school has taken seriously, even before Princes fatal decision.

"Kids understand the consequences of bullying, we don't tolerate it. We have brought in speakers, Barbara Colderoso probably the best know person on this topic and she spend a full day in our school district earlier this year," said Sayer.

Paladine
03-31-2010, 10:41 PM
A local link on a meeting held with an amazing comment section...

a snippet from the comments (the comment doesn't start with this, it's midway through)Posted by Upset and Ashamed and Angry
January 28, 2010, 8:02AM "I stood in the hallways briefly and talked with other parents and over heard how this one will be protected because he is on the football team and that one has a lawyer for a father. Even those who know this town and can see through all the crap handed out last night, know nothing is going to change in this town or any other until we as parents STAND UP FOR OUR CHILDREN!!!! As one parent said, "it takes a village" it also takes that village to allow this to continue........LET US NOT BE THAT VILLAGE.........DO NOT LET THIS BE SWEPT UNDER THE RUG"

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/hundreds_pack_south_hadley_mee.html

This poster's profile leads to another interesting comment...

http://connect.masslive.com/user/ConcernedandDismayed/index.html

Paladine
03-31-2010, 11:23 PM
A comment from this Phoebe related link mentions Phoebe being dared to hang herself, as well...posted on Jan. 16th...there are also many other intriguing comments...

Posted by RTRCT
January 16, 2010, 9:02AM
Thank God my child talks to me about this, she was a classmate of Phoebe. The girls that bullied her had dared her to hang herself. This terrible tradgedy not only affected many, but how about her 12 year old sister that found her? This child is now messed up for life. On facebook, cruel comments are still being made and from other communities. As far as the comments being made about the rich, spoiled brats. The girls that tormented her came from a middle to low class family. Please dont post or say anything unless you know the facts.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/south_hadley_high_school_stude/865/comments-3.html

And a comment here with possible info about one of the officials, sounds tawdry...

Posted by concerned_father2
February 08, 2010, 1:55PM
And this is being managed by the school official that failed to file DSS form 51A after reports of his employee having inappropriate relations with a student? A coverup, failure that put students at Amherst at risk and potentially students at this Principal's next job because the "record" was not made? The guy who went through 7 Principals in 14 years at Amherst? The guy that suddenly retired after the Principal molester was exposed.. only to be hired by SHHS? THIS is the captain of the sinking ship there?? The same one who totally ignored the paid consultant on bullying?

There should be a mutiny for this guys mishandling of the Phoebe Prince matter and for even being hired in the first place.. Where is the media reporting on this Superintendents past failures when his current failures are in the spotlight? WHERE IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR FATAL BULLYING THAT WILL LET OTHER BULLIES UNDERSTAND SEVERE CONSEQUENCES AND THINK TWICE???? Good luck So Hadley.. hope you wake up someday so your kids dont suffer from being apathetic.
http://www.massnews.com/2002_editions/03_Mar/21102amh.htm

Paladine
04-01-2010, 12:22 AM
"A bullying expert has spoken to teenagers and parents at South Hadley high school in Massachussetts following the suicide of Irish student Phoebe Prince, and has found them angry with the school’s response.

“The kids were frustrated,’’ Barbara Coloroso told the Boston Globe. Coloroso also advised Columbine High School after two boys who were bullied shot 13 other people. “They wanted to know what could have been done to prevent Phoebe’s death. It appeared to them that nothing was being done.’’

Locals in South Hadley are upset because the school has not yet moved against the bullies. In a comment on Irishcentral's website one parent wrote that at a school committee meeting last night "parents came forward and spoke of the brutal teasing that their own children have been subjected to. This has been an issue for many years and the school committee has done nothing about it."

The school has responded that in punishing the bullies it must stick to what law enforcers advise. But Coloroso, who also visited the school in September 2009, said South Hadley High has not implemented the measures she suggested then, according to the Globe."

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/School-failures-blamed-in-Irish-bullying-case-83197197.html

Paladine
04-01-2010, 12:45 AM
A wordpress blog about Phoebe...here's one comment from the blog owner...

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/expel-all-8-south-hadley-students-indicted-in-the-death-of-phoebe-prince/

It's fairly clear that Narey thought Mulveyhill was hers. And that Mullins thought Renaud was hers. Each then brought in a bff. SCV with Mullins; Longe with Narey. That's the first 6. I suspect the other 3 - charged as juvies - will be connected to the Narey axis. Based on what I saw weeks ago on FB, myspace and twitter, many of Narey's teammates were well aware of what was going on. Some former teammates who graduated, ie, the O'Connell girl, and some current teammates, ie, Grace, piled on. Many of them will be identified during the next couple of weeks, ie, on Tuesday when the indictment's particulars will be released.

That's when the fur will really fly.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 01:44 AM
"Students of South Hadley High School said that 15-year-old Irish girl Phoebe Prince was "chased around the perimeter of the school" while teachers did nothing shortly before she took her own life.
Some pupils who knew Prince well told the Boston Herald that she was chased by a group of bullies who weren't happy with the fact that Phoebe had a date with a senior football player.

The students also elaborated on the forms of bullying Prince underwent, including online harassment and text messages, before she hung herself in her home in South Hadley last month"http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Bullied-Irish-suicide-girl-Phoebe-Prince-was-chased-around-school-perimeter-84119642.html

Paladine
04-01-2010, 01:50 AM
One message sent to the teenager shortly before she took her own life read: 'Go kill yourself'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1246284/Teenage-Irish-girl-emigrated-America-hanged-cyber-bullying-torment.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0jpCZexXs

Paladine
04-01-2010, 02:08 AM
CNN/Anderson Cooper just said the expelled students don't include the 9 charged. 3 are still enrolled...none have been expelled, the 6 that left, left voluntarily.

cluciano63
04-01-2010, 02:14 AM
Right Adnoid, and have not read whole thread so someone may have said this, but free speech does not extend to inciting danger. Classic example, can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

I think regulation of the social networking on the internet is sadly lacking. The proliferation of bullying, trolling, hacking, defamation, malicious malware, spyware and identity theft is incredible and virtually (no pun intended) unchecked. It is disgusting. Laws must keep pace. Write your congressional reps.

I am a teacher and can tell you meanness is at an all-time high. It is nothing new but people used to be afraid of the consequences from schools and more importantly, parents. Not so much anymore. For example, we used to get by with skipping school or smoking on school grounds but if we threw a punch or harassed someone we were out on our azzes and our parents supported the school. Now, truancy and smoking are punished to an almost absurd degree while bullies run rampant.

Unfortunately this pervasive idea that parents must protect kids from absolutely everything harmful is also one reason why kids doing wrong go unpunished as well. Sorry, know it won't be a popular take, but I believe it. For every legitimate complaint I hear about a kid who needs to be protected, on the other side you can bet there is a parent who will fight to the death to protect their little bullying darling, doing anything they can to see that the kid avoids any consequences. Schools get overwhelmed with the arduous fact-finding and avoid the whole thing.

I have told my kids, I will always help you, but you have to work to keep yourself bully-proof in this environment. Bullying is heartbreaking, the victim's response early-on is key. It is not about blaming the victim, it is about facing reality.

My heart goes out to this family.

Eve

ITA-kids are so much meaner today and I am not sure what the explanation is for this. It has to be partly the parenting, the idea that kids must never be criticized as it might harm their self-esteem (!) which came about in the 90's or so...teachers have been stripped of all power in classrooms as far as any kind of punishment that might humiliate a student, no matter what he/she is doing that might warrant a punishment, parents get outraged and sue school systems if Junior is admonished or gets a lower grade than the parent feels the little treasure should have, etc...all of these things add up to kids obtaining a sense that they can get away with anything and mommy and daddy will jump to their defense...
Most parents want/need to believe that their kids are special...but the parents of many of the people in prisons in this country surely once believed that too...spoiled, unkind kids grow up to be spoiled, unkind adults whose thoughts are only for themselves. This country has become incredibly self-absorbed and the internet only enables this self-love.
Meanwhile, the unfortunate kids who don't have the right look, the right clothes, the right whatever it is that makes other kids single them out are left to fend for themselves as school adminstrators are heistant to take action in so many cases, possibly fearing retribution from the offenders' parents more than fearing for the child being abused. Or they just are ignoring situations rather than be the one to take charge and take action.
Somehow, someway, we have to find a way to re-instill a sense of right and wrong in kids and teens. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that we did not have this kind of bullying back when I was in HS in the late 70's or anything even close to it. Kids were routinely suspended for smoking on school grounds, etc...fighting could mean expulsion. Sure, the jocks always thought they were cooler than everyone else but were so busy trying to impress the cheerleaders, it left little time to worry about the "nerds" and outsiders.
I just have no patience with mean teens...and whatever is the harshest punishment possible in these cases, IMO, needs to be dished out. And if anything can be done to the parents, I'm all for it.
My mother taught high school for many many years and part of her job was to monitor the behavior of kids and dish out punishments, something that seems to have gone by the wayside in the PC era. Where is it getting us as a country to raise kids as though they must never be told they are wrong?
Sorry for the rant...the topic of teens/internet/bullying/violence is really one that sets me off.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 02:41 AM
okay, this made my blood boil...I want to know if he's still in school!

Kati Hench (not verified)
at 08:38 on March 30th, 2010

i go to South Hadley HS. The biggest jerk Sean Mulveyhill, is now like uber-cool in our school. He still has his facebook page and brags about all his 600+ friends on it. He struts around being cool and brags about all the "chicks" who can't get enough of him. We all know he's on steroids it's common fact but whatever. His friends started a group on facebook "Sean Mulveyhill is Not How He's Portrayed!". Great. It's all BS and i am so sick of how him and his followers keep getting off scott free well not anymore at least some of them are in trouble.oh and if you want something else to look at they also started the "I support Mr. Dan Smith of SHHS" group. lots of drama on there. it never ends i swear.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/phoebe-prince-south-hadley-high-school-students-bullying-crime-2598302.html

Paladine
04-01-2010, 02:51 AM
Oh boy...Dr. Phil is hopping aboard...

Brooke Turner Hi, I work at the Dr. Phil Show and we are working on putting together a show on Bullying, more particularly Phoebe's story - if you or someone you know might be interested in speaking out about her story, or your own story as a bully or dealing w/bullying, send me a message and I'd be happy to give you more information about what we're doing. Thanks

from a page supporting Dan Smith...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/South-Hadley-MA/I-SUPPORT-MR-DAN-SMITH-OF-SHHS/339398485208

stmarysmead
04-01-2010, 08:06 AM
No one dies from one small cut...but Phoebe endured a death by a thousand "cuts." The difference between one bee sting and a swarm of a thousand stinging bees...it's fatal.

But a "Death by a thousand Cuts" means there were many , many opportunities to STOP what happened. There were many , many opportunities to save Phoebe. School officials are more than negligent here...they are essentially conspirators...because THEY CHOSE not to stop the torture.

Why?

Who are these "children?" Special athletes? Children of friends or prominent local families?

Here's how this could have been ended IMMEDIATELY. Call in Kayla and Sean....Flanney and her Boyfriend....remind them that as athletes they are leaders. As leaders , they are RESPONSIBLE. Tell them, starting TODAY, any action against this girl BY ANYONE...will have you sit out a game. Three actions...you two are off your teams. For those not on a team. Any action means YOU have detention...three actions YOU are suspended. All the wannabees tormented Phoebe to impress these "leaders" and show loyalty.

IMMEDIATELY after the suicide, the correct names were on the Internet. Phoebe's mother no doubt gave them names too. This is FULL OUT dereliction of duty! nothing hard here...except earning YOUR PAY!

This was no "suicide"...it was "Death by a Thousand cuts"over three long months... as these school officials drew a paycheck and did nothing.

I hope there will be civil suits in this case. It is intolerable that anyone should be required BY LAW or financial circumstances to return day after day to a place of torment enabled by neglect.

elle1919
04-01-2010, 10:06 AM
Paladine, I want to thank you for your dedication to this thread. I struggled to find info on this case a few weeks ago but now I have much right at my fingertips. Thank you.

After following the the myspace mother case....link here : http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1248055/myspace_mom_lori_drew_found_not_guilty.html?cat=17

where the mom posed as an ex boyfriend to Meier and told her that the world would be a better place without her, after which the young girl committed suicide within an hour of the break-up....the mom was found guilty of 3 misdemeanor charges and no felonies, I personally did not feel like that was justice for the young girl or her family. After following that case, then hearing about the charges in this case, I knew there must be some pretty far reaching, deep things involved with this case and the things that were said and done to Phoebe. I was preparing myself for the shock of what these kids said and did to her. I didn't prepare myself enough!

Paladine
04-01-2010, 10:31 AM
Reaction from Phoebe's hometown in Ireland...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100401in_ireland_hearts_break_for_phoebe_prince_ teens_hometown_still_reeling_from_tragic_loss/srvc=home&position=4

jjenny
04-01-2010, 10:34 AM
Paladine, I want to thank you for your dedication to this thread. I struggled to find info on this case a few weeks ago but now I have much right at my fingertips. Thank you.

After following the the myspace mother case....link here : http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1248055/myspace_mom_lori_drew_found_not_guilty.html?cat=17

where the mom posed as an ex boyfriend to Meier and told her that the world would be a better place without her, after which the young girl committed suicide within an hour of the break-up....the mom was found guilty of 3 misdemeanor charges and no felonies, I personally did not feel like that was justice for the young girl or her family. After following that case, then hearing about the charges in this case, I knew there must be some pretty far reaching, deep things involved with this case and the things that were said and done to Phoebe. I was preparing myself for the shock of what these kids said and did to her. I didn't prepare myself enough!

The woman in the Meier case did not herself send the messages. And she was also acquitted of the misdemeanor charges by the judge.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 10:41 AM
Perfect! Unrelated but precedent setting, we can hope...

"Federal Jury Orders School District to Pay Student for Ignoring Pattern of Bullying"
School districts across America may now have to be more vigilant about student bullying and harassment in the wake of a landmark court case in Michigan. Hudson Area Schools has been ordered to pay a former student $800,000 for ignoring Dane Patterson’s repeated complaints about students who taunted and subjected him to humiliating behavior.

http://www.allgov.com/Controversies/ViewNews/Federal_Jury_Orders_School_District_to_Pay_Student _for_Ignoring_Pattern_of_Bullying_100401

Paladine
04-01-2010, 10:44 AM
HOW can he defend it when a Girl's dead?

"Mass. school head defends response to bullying"

A Massachusetts school superintendent is defending his administration's handling of bullying that prosecutors say contributed to a 15-year-old girl's suicide.

South Hadley Superintendent Gus Sayer said Wednesday that high school officials disciplined students heard to insult and harass Phoebe Prince. But he says the faculty didn't know the extent of the bullying until a week before Prince hanged herself on Jan. 14.

Sayer's comments contradict the allegations of District Attorney Elizabeth Scheibel, who said school officials knew about the harassment but did little to intervene.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jtSfPUlJn7oUv4nT-KF2Kqs7J6mQD9EQ7VG02

ETA: for reference, here's a bloggers take on Gus...warning though: language is a little spicy...amazing blog, lots of local info...

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/gus-sayer-those-involved-have-been-disciplined/

Paladine
04-01-2010, 11:08 AM
Wasn't there a time when schools had respect for the law and D.A.'s? What's up with this? Afraid of being sued, perhaps?

"Schools head defends response to bullying, Rebuts prosecutor on teen’s suicide"

"That’s the first we learned of it, and we took very strong action,’’ he said. “We don’t have knowledge of any bullying or other incidents before that. No one turned their back on this. I think we did everything we could. If I thought I had done something wrong, I would resign. But I think we did our best.’’

Well then, Mr. Sayer...you did your BEST? THIS was your BEST? Then you need to be fired!
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/04/01/schools_head_defends_response_to_bullying/

OrdinaryLife
04-01-2010, 11:14 AM
HOW can he defend it when a Girl's dead?

"Mass. school head defends response to bullying"


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jtSfPUlJn7oUv4nT-KF2Kqs7J6mQD9EQ7VG02

ETA: for reference, here's a bloggers take on Gus...warning though: language is a little spicy...amazing blog, lots of local info...

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/gus-sayer-those-involved-have-been-disciplined/

How can you blame Superintendent Gus Sayer for failing to address this problem? I mean, they did the whole discipline thing to the students causing the insults/harassment to Phoebe Prince. *And*, they obviously only knew a week before the extent of this "issue" before Phoebe hanged herself. Which means, technically, they only had 5 days to deal with it. You know, the school week. Can you imagine the pressure? I can understand why they never contacted anyone, including Phoebe and her family, to make more of plan of support for her and provide the intolerance responsibility stated in the schools handbook.

:sick: Made me ill just typing this sarcastic crap I do not believe, but may have been actually rationalized by "them".

Fire the s.o.b. Then, hold accountable the staff that were very much aware/witnesses to this. I'd sue the ***tards.

OrdinaryLife
04-01-2010, 11:16 AM
Wasn't there a time when schools had respect for the law and D.A.'s? What's up with this? Afraid of being sued, perhaps?

"Schools head defends response to bullying, Rebuts prosecutor on teen’s suicide"



Well then, Mr. Sayer...you did your BEST? THIS was your BEST? Then you need to be fired!
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/04/01/schools_head_defends_response_to_bullying/

All this rhetoric is nothing short of "protecting ones a$$". He and this schools administration will be made an example of. Let's help with that kind of pressure. Phoebe went through much worse than they are...

Paladine
04-01-2010, 11:31 AM
How can you blame Superintendent Gus Sayer for failing to address this problem? I mean, they did the whole discipline thing to the students causing the insults/harassment to Phoebe Prince. *And*, they obviously only knew a week before the extent of this "issue" before Phoebe hanged herself. Which means, technically, they only had 5 days to deal with it. You know, the school week. Can you imagine the pressure? I can understand why they never contacted anyone, including Phoebe and her family, to make more of plan of support for her and provide the intolerance responsibility stated in the schools handbook.

:sick: Made me ill just typing this sarcastic crap I do not believe, but may have been actually rationalized by "them".

Fire the s.o.b. Then, hold accountable the staff that were very much aware/witnesses to this. I'd sue the ***tards.


I've read unsubstantiated reports bullying was reported in Nov/09, please...don't ask me where, right now. ;) They may be rationalizing, separating the 2 bullying episodes. I've read, unconfirmed, that Phoebe dated 2 boys, at different times, which invoked the ire of other girls who had claimed ownership of them. Sayer may say, we dealt with the one last year, this was a new one, kinda deal. Thank goodness there will be a trial and the complaints made and who saw what WILL be exposed. I hope there's a civil suit, as well. Some light needs to shine into that town...for the kids sake.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 11:51 AM
All this rhetoric is nothing short of "protecting ones a$$". He and this schools administration will be made an example of. Let's help with that kind of pressure. Phoebe went through much worse than they are...

I'd be glad to help :)...we need to keep interest in this case alive, in any little way we can. I posted the link to this thread to that local bloggers page, run4chocolate...might get us some new info to work with. If someone from there, comes here, too...and, btw...

:Welcome-12-june: to any locals. :) (AND non-locals :) )Please feel free to join and post, you are most welcome...help us out here ;) Especially regarding the tie to the bullies and the admin. Why did they protect them so much? Why were they not punished? Was it the families? Was it sports, to preserve the teams? That's what I want to know, right now...

cinsbythesea
04-01-2010, 12:17 PM
My daughter is living in Ireland and says this is a HUGE story over there- I've been sending her all your links - thanks so much for keeping this case front and center in Websleuths Paladine!

Paladine
04-01-2010, 12:25 PM
Along with being a sports star, it seems Miss Narey was quite the academic, as well. She can't claim stupidity. School newsletter from November announcing Narey had advanced scores in English and Math.

And Sean Mulveyhill won the Adams Scholarship, FREE tuition for 4 years at any MASS. college or university! Wonder how an expulsion or reprimand would have affected THAT! The announcement was signed "Mr. Dan Smith"...

It's a PDF...

http://www.shschools.com/shhs/documents/newsletters/November.pdf

Paladine
04-01-2010, 12:29 PM
My daughter is living in Ireland and says this is a HUGE story over there- I've been sending her all your links - thanks so much for keeping this case front and center in Websleuths Paladine!

You are welcome. My late Husband was Irish. An O'Kane. :) This touches my heart for him, too. He used to call me cushla ma cree (darling of my heart kinda thing)...pardon my gaelic. ;) Now...my heart aches for Phoebe...

Paladine
04-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Speculation> From what I've read, Sean Mulveyhill also bullied Phoebe. I find this particularily disturbing because she was intimate with him, young girls trust. I wonder how much he, and the other boy, used Phoebe as the excuse for why they messed with her. For example, something like, "It's HER fault, SHE'S a whore...WE couldn't help ourselves, she's just too easy." Once the star football captain turned on her, I'm sure even more would feel free to jump on board.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 12:56 PM
omg...here's a cached facebook page, the original's deleted. Sean Mulveyhill was voted Class Flirt 09/10! How'd THAT work out for him...

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:sC1w4OiFf5AJ:sq-al.facebook.com/notes/gateway-yearbook/senior-superlative-results-09-10/153892399352+shhs+sean+mulveyhill&cd=21&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Paladine
04-01-2010, 01:12 PM
An observation. While searching for info, I'm finding ALOT of malicious sites. MANY more than any other case I've searched for. A simple seach of names doesn't seem to work. Unique words need to be used to avoid the bad sites. IMO, likely set up to try and detour us/the public from searching...HA! ;) They don't know us. ;)

stmarysmead
04-01-2010, 01:46 PM
An observation. While searching for info, I'm finding ALOT of malicious sites. MANY more than any other case I've searched for. A simple seach of names doesn't seem to work. Unique words need to be used to avoid the bad sites. IMO, likely set up to try and detour us/the public from searching...HA! ;) They don't know us. ;)

Thanks Paladine, for all your research.

I am so outraged by this case and the thoughts of the cruelty Phoebe faced for months while the school officials enabled it!

Thank you for all you are doing!

LinasK
04-01-2010, 02:13 PM
ITA-kids are so much meaner today and I am not sure what the explanation is for this. It has to be partly the parenting, the idea that kids must never be criticized as it might harm their self-esteem (!) which came about in the 90's or so...teachers have been stripped of all power in classrooms as far as any kind of punishment that might humiliate a student, no matter what he/she is doing that might warrant a punishment, parents get outraged and sue school systems if Junior is admonished or gets a lower grade than the parent feels the little treasure should have, etc...all of these things add up to kids obtaining a sense that they can get away with anything and mommy and daddy will jump to their defense...
Most parents want/need to believe that their kids are special...but the parents of many of the people in prisons in this country surely once believed that too...spoiled, unkind kids grow up to be spoiled, unkind adults whose thoughts are only for themselves. This country has become incredibly self-absorbed and the internet only enables this self-love.
Meanwhile, the unfortunate kids who don't have the right look, the right clothes, the right whatever it is that makes other kids single them out are left to fend for themselves as school adminstrators are heistant to take action in so many cases, possibly fearing retribution from the offenders' parents more than fearing for the child being abused. Or they just are ignoring situations rather than be the one to take charge and take action.
Somehow, someway, we have to find a way to re-instill a sense of right and wrong in kids and teens. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that we did not have this kind of bullying back when I was in HS in the late 70's or anything even close to it. Kids were routinely suspended for smoking on school grounds, etc...fighting could mean expulsion. Sure, the jocks always thought they were cooler than everyone else but were so busy trying to impress the cheerleaders, it left little time to worry about the "nerds" and outsiders.
I just have no patience with mean teens...and whatever is the harshest punishment possible in these cases, IMO, needs to be dished out. And if anything can be done to the parents, I'm all for it.
My mother taught high school for many many years and part of her job was to monitor the behavior of kids and dish out punishments, something that seems to have gone by the wayside in the PC era. Where is it getting us as a country to raise kids as though they must never be told they are wrong?
Sorry for the rant...the topic of teens/internet/bullying/violence is really one that sets me off.
Um, yeah it did exist back then, just maybe not at your school. I was bullied and called horrible names back in 1969-1972. My 4th, 5th, and 6th grade years were h*ll. None of my friends would hang around with me for fear they would be picked on, and I was pushed into a fight and they made a ring around me so I couldn't escape and they were hoping this one mean girl would pummel me!!! It happened during the recess and lunch breaks when there were no adults supervising.
All because I was one of the smallest girls and in 4th grade, a popular boy didn't want to have to sit next to me when the teacher made up the seating chart, and my mother used to dress me dorkily.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 02:22 PM
Thanks Paladine, for all your research.

I am so outraged by this case and the thoughts of the cruelty Phoebe faced for months while the school officials enabled it!

Thank you for all you are doing!

Thanks. Others here have contributed, too, I must say. And thank goodness! It's lonely on a quiet thread...I like friends ;)

I didn't think I could handle this case, it's too painful...the thought of someone suffering for a day before they die is bad enough, as is the case in some of these cases. But when the pain goes on for months? That hurts. Alot. I'm very empathetic it can be a real drag. But...so far, so good.

I've been posting this link to this forum everywhere I can, as are others, where locals might be...hopefully someone posts...

elle1919
04-01-2010, 02:28 PM
The woman in the Meier case did not herself send the messages. And she was also acquitted of the misdemeanor charges by the judge.

Interesting, not the way I remember it at all. Guess I should read up because the link on my computer says the opposite. I must check for an acquittal date on those misdemeanor charges.

Ticks me off even more to know that she got away with bullying the poor girl. JMO

Makes me believe( even more so) that the prosecutor in this case must have a truckload of evidence to decide to bring the charges that they have, I hope they are found guilty and punished to the fullest extent possible according to the law.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Boston Herald gives it to officials in South Hadley...

South Hadley doesn’t need new bullying laws or legislative edicts. It doesn’t need to criminalize schoolyard taunts or Internet insults.

What South Hadley needs is a tea party.

Did you read yesterday’s Herald story about the reaction of the school stooges to the arrests in the Phoebe Prince case? Forget President Barack Obama being arrogant and out of touch. South Hadley School Committee Chairman Edward Boisselle makes him look like a Sarah Palin populist.

When the district attorney’s report found that “Phoebe’s harassment was common knowledge,” Boisselle’s reaction was (I’m paraphrasing slightly) “Oh yeah? Sez you!”

“Did they go interview all 700 kids at the school and found out that more than 300 knew about it? Isn’t that the only way you could tell that they factually knew about it?”

Boisselle is also standing by his invisible superintendent, Gus Sayer, who as of this writing was still unavailable for comment after the indictment of nine of his students.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1243791&srvc=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bostonherald+%28Home+-+BostonHerald.com%29

adnoid
04-01-2010, 03:02 PM
...Well then, Mr. Sayer...you did your BEST? THIS was your BEST?...

Dear Mr. Sayer:

Your best sucks. Clean out your office.

Love, adnoid.

Muffet
04-01-2010, 03:06 PM
Boston Herald gives it to officials in South Hadley...


http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1243791&srvc=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bostonherald+%28Home+-+BostonHerald.com%29

That was awesome! Good for him. That's exactly the public response we need to wake people up and shake these bums out. :thumb:

Now for a similar slap-down of these bully parents...

adnoid
04-01-2010, 03:11 PM
The woman in the Meier case did not herself send the messages. And she was also acquitted of the misdemeanor charges by the judge.

Lori Drew did, indeed, send messages herself via 2 different accounts.

http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/cyberlaw/usdrew51508ind.pdf

She was tried for unauthorized access of a computer system for violating MySpace's TOS, and she was in fact not convicted. But in my eyes she's lower than whale poop and deserves every ounce of misfortune that ever come her way. A grown woman tormenting a child should hang her head in shame every day for the rest of her miserable, worthless life and should die alone and in obscurity. If she was on fire on the side of the road I wouldn't piss on her to put it out.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 03:12 PM
D.A. responds! Phoebe's heroine...

"Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth D. Scheibel today fired back at the South Hadley school boss who disputed assertions that school officials should have done more for Phoebe Prince, 15, prior to her Jan. 14 suicide.

In his first comments to the media since nine students were indicted on Monday, Superintendent Gus Sayer said school officials only learned of the bullying just before Prince’s suicide. He also denied school officials looked the other way.

“The investigation into Phoebe Prince’s death is ongoing. I do not intend to address Superintendent Sayer’s assertions point by point,” Scheibel said in a statement. “I will, however, say that Mr. Sayer does not have access to our investigative materials. Therefore, he can’t have a basis for some of his remarks

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100401da_responds_to_south_hadley_superintendent/

cinsbythesea
04-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Can I ask what's probably a dumb question as I've already lost a lot of work time reading up on this and still can't find my answer - how did the statutory rape charges come about? Did she tell someone before she died that she had had sex with the two boys?

SuziQ
04-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Can I ask what's probably a dumb question as I've already lost a lot of work time reading up on this and still can't find my answer - how did the statutory rape charges come about? Did she tell someone before she died that she had had sex with the two boys?

I'm going to guess that the boys bragged all over about it.

eta: and they probably did it in embellished detail if my memory of high school serves me correctly.

adnoid
04-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Can I ask what's probably a dumb question as I've already lost a lot of work time reading up on this and still can't find my answer - how did the statutory rape charges come about? Did she tell someone before she died that she had had sex with the two boys?

Actually, we don't have details. It could involve some other girl(s), not Phoebe, for all we know.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 03:24 PM
That was awesome! Good for him. That's exactly the public response we need to wake people up and shake these bums out. :thumb:

Now for a similar slap-down of these bully parents...

What stuns me is that EVEN NOW the school officials aren't standing up, being responsible, examining themselves...nothing...they're fine, all's good...move on.

Amazing. So dysfunctional. An argument could be made, the students are standing trial because these adults didn't set proper boundaries, teach proper behavior, or keep Phoebe safe. And STILL they can't see what they've done wrong...that it could have been, should have been, better.

ETA I would be very upset at these officials even if I was a bully supporter...they failed all the kids, imo.

BeenaBobba
04-01-2010, 03:24 PM
okay, this made my blood boil...I want to know if he's still in school!

i go to South Hadley HS. The biggest jerk Sean Mulveyhill, is now like uber-cool in our school. He still has his facebook page and brags about all his 600+ friends on it. He struts around being cool and brags about all the "chicks" who can't get enough of him. We all know he's on steroids it's common fact but whatever. His friends started a group on facebook "Sean Mulveyhill is Not How He's Portrayed!". Great. It's all BS and i am so sick of how him and his followers keep getting off scott free well not anymore at least some of them are in trouble.oh and if you want something else to look at they also started the "I support Mr. Dan Smith of SHHS" group. lots of drama on there. it never ends i swear.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/phoebe-prince-south-hadley-high-school-students-bullying-crime-2598302.html

Isn't it funny that some jocks think they're untouchable kings? In reality, they're a dime a dozen. There are hundreds of thousands of high school athletes across the United States, but many of them still think they're God's gift to humanity. It'd almost be laughable if it wasn't so tiresome.

I've been doing some research on Facebook, and it seems that a lot of students still support Sean. There's even a Facebook group in support of him. I won't name any names because I know it violates the policy here, but it's not too hard to find out. I can only imagine what poor Phoebe went through. It must've been her against a large portion of her school. :(

Paladine
04-01-2010, 03:29 PM
I'm going to guess that the boys bragged all over about it.

eta: and they probably did it in embellished detail if my memory of high school serves me correctly.

I'm with you on that, Suzie..

Linda7NJ
04-01-2010, 03:34 PM
Isn't it funny that some jocks think they're untouchable kings? In reality, they're a dime a dozen. There are hundreds of thousands of high school athletes across the United States, but many of them still think they're God's gift to humanity. It'd almost be laughable if it wasn't so tiresome.

I've been doing some research on Facebook, and it seems that a lot of students still support Sean. There's even a Facebook group in support of him. I won't name any names because I know it violates the policy here, but it's not too hard to find out. I can only imagine what poor Phoebe went through. It must've been her against a large portion of her school. :(

Ok...my understanding based on the limited information available. He broke up with his girlfriend ( also charged) and dated Phoebe. The ex-girlfriend lost her mind and started the torment. I am not exactly clear on what this athlete did? Someone please fill me in.

BeenaBobba
04-01-2010, 03:34 PM
from a page supporting Dan Smith...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/South-Hadley-MA/I-SUPPORT-MR-DAN-SMITH-OF-SHHS/339398485208

I've been on that page in the discussion section in the "My Opinion" thread. My impression is that many of them think that bullying is just a normal part of life. I also get the impression that they think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I pretty much told them that that attitude is part of the problem. I suspect a good many of them were/are friends with the bullies.

Muffet
04-01-2010, 03:35 PM
Um, yeah it did exist back then, just maybe not at your school. I was bullied and called horrible names back in 1969-1972. My 4th, 5th, and 6th grade years were h*ll. None of my friends would hang around with me for fear they would be picked on, and I was pushed into a fight and they made a ring around me so I couldn't escape and they were hoping this one mean girl would pummel me!!! It happened during the recess and lunch breaks when there were no adults supervising.
All because I was one of the smallest girls and in 4th grade, a popular boy didn't want to have to sit next to me when the teacher made up the seating chart, and my mother used to dress me dorkily.

This and your other one about scratching your bullies gave me a doubletake, we're so alike!

I was also scrawny and an easy target, plus I was sort of dreamy, didn't like to play rough games, but preferred to draw or read at recess.
Luckily, most of it ended by 7th grade, when it probably would have been more hurtful, with all the angst of puberty and all.

It does seem worse these days though, and I keep wondering why... what is the difference? Sad to say, I don't think the sort of thing this poor girl went through is new. But we are seeing others that go way beyond what used to be, AFAIK, like the savage beatings, rapes, and setting kids on fire. :no:

I guess it could be a matter of those cases adding to the totality of our perception of the problem, along with the suicides and revenge-killings... all make our generation less willing to sweep it under the rug as it was before.

If only everyone would get the memo.

BeenaBobba
04-01-2010, 03:36 PM
Ok...my understanding based on the limited information available. He broke up with his girlfriend ( also charged) and dated Phoebe. The ex-girlfriend lost her mind and started the torment. I am not exactly clear on what this athlete did? Someone please fill me in.

Very little is known about the details, but apparently, Phoebe dated Sean. After they broke up, he is said to have turned on her.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 03:37 PM
"Failure of leadership"

"It seems the cluelessness extends from some staff members at South Hadley High School all the way up to the chairman of the town’s school committee, who embarrassed himself this week by downplaying the work of Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth Scheibel.

Sure, a grand jury may have found enough evidence to indict nine students on charges ranging from criminal harassment to statutory rape in connection with the suicide of 15-year-old Phoebe Prince.

And police and prosecutors who interviewed more than 50 people found that the harassment of Prince was “common knowledge” among the student body. But now enter Chairman Edward Boisselle, and his weak attempt to defend the indefensible."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view/20100401failure_of_leadership/

Linda7NJ
04-01-2010, 03:37 PM
Very little is known about the details, but apparently, Phoebe dated Sean. After they broke up, he is said to have turned on her.

But he wasn't charged with tormenting her correct? He's charged with statutory rape only?

Muffet
04-01-2010, 03:42 PM
I'm going to guess that the boys bragged all over about it.

eta: and they probably did it in embellished detail if my memory of high school serves me correctly.
They might also have confessed to it up front, when first interviewed by police.

Muffet
04-01-2010, 03:45 PM
Ok...my understanding based on the limited information available. He broke up with his girlfriend ( also charged) and dated Phoebe. The ex-girlfriend lost her mind and started the torment. I am not exactly clear on what this athlete did? Someone please fill me in.
It says here (http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/phoebe-prince-bullying-suicide-list-of-suspects-charges-25-apx-20100329), Sean Mulveyhill, 17, of South Hadley. Charged with statutory rape, violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting, criminal harassment and disturbance of a school assembly.

BeenaBobba
04-01-2010, 03:45 PM
But he wasn't charged with tormenting her correct? He's charged with statutory rape only?

According to this (http://www.nowpublic.com/world/phoebe-prince-suicide-sean-mulveyhill-and-mean-girls-2599566.htm), he was charged with statutory rape, violation of civil rights resulting in bodily injury, criminal harassment and disturbance of a school assembly.

burbqueen
04-01-2010, 03:46 PM
I just dont know what to say, but seriously there are whole communities that thrive on this mentality of kicking the little person down. The parents gloat about how great his or her jerk son or spoiled bratty daughter gets everything and how popular they are. These depraved parents live thru their kids.

They treat social events like it some sort of competition. The are arrogant, out of touch and raising kids who feel entitled to everything. I grew up in an affluent suburb and thank god the teasing I experience stopped around 10th grade, but I knew kids that I felt sorry for that were so excluded and seemed sad. But if you stuck up for that kid then the heat would move to you too.

I hope my kid doesnt experience anything like that. Or if he does at least tell me what is going on. I think most kids get embarrassed about involving parents. But for teacher, parents and other students to know what was going on and no one told her parents is just an outrage to me. why?

kk's mom
04-01-2010, 03:52 PM
This story upsets me so much I just want to cry everytime I read what this poor girl went through. I hate bullies and I hate that nothing is ever done about it.

What makes me more scared and worried is KK and I are moving to my fiancee's home in the summer. She will be a new student with incoming freshman into the high school (9th grade) in September. She'll be coming in with other new middle school students (3 schools of 8th graders merge into this freshman class). She's be playing fall sports so she'll have practices all summer long and will get to meet some of the girls on the team and form friendships over the summer. I am worried though. Kids are so different these days.........She's a great kid though, very outgoing, very kind to others.......

Any words of advice from anyone in same situation?

Paladine
04-01-2010, 03:52 PM
Mulveyhill was charged for harassing. Word is, unconfirmed, rumor-kind of "word" ;)...after he broke up with her, he turned on her...

The other boy, Austin, iirc, wasn't charged with harassing, he had only the statutory rape charge.

LinasK
04-01-2010, 03:53 PM
This and your other one about scratching your bullies gave me a doubletake, we're so alike!

I was also scrawny and an easy target, plus I was sort of dreamy, didn't like to play rough games, but preferred to draw or read at recess.
Luckily, most of it ended by 7th grade, when it probably would have been more hurtful, with all the angst of puberty and all.

It does seem worse these days though, and I keep wondering why... what is the difference? Sad to say, I don't think the sort of thing this poor girl went through is new. But we are seeing others that go way beyond what used to be, AFAIK, like the savage beatings, rapes, and setting kids on fire. :no:

I guess it could be a matter of those cases adding to the totality of our perception of the problem, along with the suicides and revenge-killings... all make our generation less willing to sweep it under the rug as it was before.

If only everyone would get the memo.
The difference between when it happened to us and now is the Internet. It did not yet exist, so there was no cyber-bullying in existence. I do believe that with the added publicity of mass-shootings like Columbine, society as a whole has become desensitized to violence, and therefore it has become more acceptable. I strongly disagree with parents whose attitude is let the kids duke it out! What happens when one kid is smaller/not trained to fight, as in my case? Does the victim deserve to get pummeled again???:hand::snooty:

LinasK
04-01-2010, 03:55 PM
This story upsets me so much I just want to cry everytime I read what this poor girl went through. I hate bullies and I hate that nothing is ever done about it.

What makes me more scared and worried is KK and I are moving to my fiancee's home in the summer. She will be a new student with incoming freshman into the high school (9th grade) in September. She'll be coming in with other new middle school students (3 schools of 8th graders merge into this freshman class). She's be playing fall sports so she'll have practices all summer long and will get to meet some of the girls on the team and form friendships over the summer. I am worried though. Kids are so different these days.........She's a great kid though, very outgoing, very kind to others.......

Any words of advice from anyone in same situation?
Actually, a new school (Jr. High in 7th grade) is when my bullying stopped, because suddenly, now that we were merged with 3 other schools, and the bullies were 7th grade "scrubs" themselves, they were nobodies with no power!

Paladine
04-01-2010, 03:57 PM
This story upsets me so much I just want to cry everytime I read what this poor girl went through. I hate bullies and I hate that nothing is ever done about it.

What makes me more scared and worried is KK and I are moving to my fiancee's home in the summer. She will be a new student with incoming freshman into the high school (9th grade) in September. She'll be coming in with other new middle school students (3 schools of 8th graders merge into this freshman class). She's be playing fall sports so she'll have practices all summer long and will get to meet some of the girls on the team and form friendships over the summer. I am worried though. Kids are so different these days.........She's a great kid though, very outgoing, very kind to others.......

Any words of advice from anyone in same situation?

I've found getting involved helps. Find social clubs that other students in your district might be attending. Some youth groups from churches are good, imo, if you're into that. But check it out, check people out, I remember the Huckabees! Be the house where the sleepovers happen. Be the parent that arranges get-togethers. This weekend I'll have 8 teen girls in my basement...lol...but it's worth the trouble knowing they're safe.

Linda7NJ
04-01-2010, 03:58 PM
It says here (http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/phoebe-prince-bullying-suicide-list-of-suspects-charges-25-apx-20100329),
Sean Mulveyhill, 17, of South Hadley. Charged with statutory rape, violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting, criminal harassment and disturbance of a school assembly.


ahhhhhh! Thank you!

Linda7NJ
04-01-2010, 04:05 PM
I've found getting involved helps. Find social clubs that other students in your district might be attending. Some youth groups from churches are good, imo, if you're into that. But check it out, check people out, I remember the Huckabees! Be the house where the sleepovers happen. Be the parent that arranges get-togethers. This weekend I'll have 8 teen girls in my basement...lol...but it's worth the trouble knowing they're safe.


I totally agree! My son friends are always at my house. If they're not here, it's because I'm driving them all somewhere. I know them all very well....a little too well. Not a night goes by when atleast one of them isn't here for dinner! I've earned their respect and trust and they've earned mine.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 04:05 PM
They might also have confessed to it up front, when first interviewed by police.

I think you're right, too. They likely bragged to so many, rumor spread, hard to deny when speaking to police. And they might have figured, "why lie"...not thinking of statutory rape...

Linda7NJ
04-01-2010, 04:07 PM
I think you're right, too. They likely bragged to so many, rumor spread, hard to deny when speaking to police. And they might have figured, "why lie"...not thinking of statutory rape...


The idiots probably used it as a lame defense. See, she was a slut and deserved to be bullied...she had sex with me and him....

stmarysmead
04-01-2010, 04:12 PM
For some reason, this case reminds me of one years ago...two bright students from Texas in a "relationship." One was later to enroll at Annapolis and the other at the Air Force Academy. He briefly flirted with another, younger girl...and together they killed this girl to make things right between them.

I wonder if the same dynamic wasn't at work here. To make amends with Kayla, Sean Mulveyhill had to help her torment the girl that briefly came between them. Perhaps he referenced their sexual encounter(s) in some of his texts or emails tormenting Phoebe...and there is the "proof" of statutory rape. A minor under 16 cannot by law "consent."

These two were the Football captain and his popular, Lacrosse star girlfriend...other wannabee "friends" would try to up the cruelty even more to be "accpted" by these two.

They well may have been favorites of the faculty and staff, or their parents may be prominent in the community. This new girl was a nobody. Therefore the staff tolerated Phoebe being tormented day after day, month after month...as just ..oh my! "relationship problems."

elle1919
04-01-2010, 04:12 PM
I might have missed it somewhere in the thread, not too mention I have been busy with life the past two days. Do we know if Phoebe's parents are still in this community or have they moved? I worry about the sister who found Phoebe and am keeping her in my prayers.

elle1919
04-01-2010, 04:16 PM
For some reason, this case eeminds me of one years ago...two bright students from Texas in a "relationship." One was later to enroll at Annapolis and the other at the Air Force Academy. He briefly flirted with another, younger girl...and together they killed this girl to make things right between them.

I wonder if the same dynamic wasn't at work here. To make amends with Kayla, Sean Mulveyhill had to help her torment the girl that briefly came between them. Perhaps he referenced their sexual encounter(s) in some of his texts or emails tormenting Phoebe...and there is the "proof" of statutory rape. A minor under 16 cannot by law "consent."

These two were the Football captain and his popular, Lacrosse star girlfriend...other wannabee "friends" would try to up the cruelty even more to be "accpted" bu these two.

They well may have been favorites of the faculty and staff, or their parents may be prominent in the community. This new girl was a nobody. Therefore the staff tolerated Phoebe being tormented day after day, month after month...as just ..oh my! "relationship problems."

I have to wonder if you are remembering the D Graham, D Zomora case and the murder of Adrienne Jones? I think that was Texas as well. It has been quite awhile though so maybe not.

stmarysmead
04-01-2010, 04:16 PM
I might have missed it somewhere in the thread, not too mention I have been busy with life the past two days. Do we know if Phoebe's parents are still in this community or have they moved? I worry about the sister who found Phoebe and am keeping her in my prayers.

In several articles, they mentioned they have moved away.

stmarysmead
04-01-2010, 04:17 PM
I have to wonder if you are remembering the D Graham, D Zomora case and the murder of Adrienne Jones? I think that was Texas as well. It has been quite awhile though so maybe not.

Yes, thank you. I couldn't remember the names.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 04:40 PM
For some reason, this case reminds me of one years ago...two bright students from Texas in a "relationship." One was later to enroll at Annapolis and the other at the Air Force Academy. He briefly flirted with another, younger girl...and together they killed this girl to make things right between them.

I wonder if the same dynamic wasn't at work here. To make amends with Kayla, Sean Mulveyhill had to help her torment the girl that briefly came between them. Perhaps he referenced their sexual encounter(s) in some of his texts or emails tormenting Phoebe...and there is the "proof" of statutory rape. A minor under 16 cannot by law "consent."

These two were the Football captain and his popular, Lacrosse star girlfriend...other wannabee "friends" would try to up the cruelty even more to be "accpted" by these two.

They well may have been favorites of the faculty and staff, or their parents may be prominent in the community. This new girl was a nobody. Therefore the staff tolerated Phoebe being tormented day after day, month after month...as just ..oh my! "relationship problems."

THAT is exactly how I'm thinking...perfect post, imo...:) and bullying and disparaging Phoebe got him back in with Narly and gang. If so...what a loser.

burbqueen
04-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Yeah, Texas. I live here, tell me about it!!! Very into cliques in some parts. Especially the wealthier suburbs.

She was such a pretty girl. I just wish someone would have told her that high school isnt forever. Such potential just wasted. Are the parents of the accused saying anything???

Brian Seaman
04-01-2010, 05:03 PM
For anyone interested, I've written about this from both a personal perspective, and also drawing on my work experience as a Canadian human rights/civil liberties expert. You can read my article, "Requiem in Pacem, Phoebe Prince; One Person Can Make a Difference", at: http://brianseaman.blogspot.com/2010/03/requiem-in-pacem-phoebe-prince-one.html

SuziQ
04-01-2010, 05:12 PM
THAT is exactly how I'm thinking...perfect post...:) and bullying and disparaging Phoebe got him back in with Narly and gang. If so...what a loser.

That's a pretty typical love triangle scenario. Seems like there are a couple of cases a year where the third party pays with their life. Something like this almost happened to my DD a few months after she graduated from HS. A football player from the University of Utah dumped his long time University of Utah soccer playin GF (they were also highschool jock sweethearts) because he wanted to date my DD. My daughter only wanted to be friends and broke off the friendship when he turned into a stalker. He gets back with soccer playin GF and he tells his GF my DD persued him and ruined his life. They both start emailing and texting my DD detailed torture and death threats. They are about the scariest things I've read ever!!! It was all because Football player wanted to get back into the good graces of soccer playin GF. I know my DD and these people were all adults, but it didn't stop me from contacting and fowarding the threatening emails to the coaches and parents so they'd all know what their darlings were up to. The coaches were very helpful and I thanked them up and down. I said I was so pleased with their response that I wouldn't have to contact the press, my lawyer or LE. Dead silence on the other end then an "oh yeah, no problem! My DD never had a problem with these people again.

Belinda
04-01-2010, 05:14 PM
Hi Everyone -

I've been lurking for some time now, but just finally signed up and started posting today.

Every time I see a story like this it brings back such horrifying memories. I was systematically, endlessly bullied for many years of school. The teachers and administration were fully aware and did nothing. As I had an abusive, alcoholic father, I learned to duck early and never fought back which made me the perfect target. They would make things up that I supposedly said so they would have a new reason to come after me. I can't begin to communicate the sheer terror I lived in. When I finally told my mother what was happening, she asked me what I had done. I swore to her I had done nothing and she said "Well, you must have done something." She never even contacted the school.

It hurts my soul to know this is still going on in schools and still nothing is being done about it. Feeling safe is such a basic need in life. It is up to the school and it is up to the parents to teach these kids the right way to deal with disagreements. There is no way this happened to this degree and no one knew anything about it. It's not possible. So, they ignored it as they did with me. I contemplated suicide so many times back then. When you are in that situation, it is hard to look through it and see a future. My heart is broken for this beautiful girl who deserved so much better in our country.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 05:24 PM
I don't have time to point out all the inconsistencies in this school newsletter Feb./10 and the schools public statements...but they're there...take a look..PDF...if I was a parent of a student there, I'd be enraged. Are they lying NOW or BEFORE? 'We dealt with it right' AND 'We didn't know'...don't mesh...

Number #1, though? AFTER she died, they sent a newsletter that, in part, said, "after she died we began to hear information that Phoebe was bullied"!!
PDF, again... http://www.shschools.com/shhs/documents/newsletters/February.pdf

elle1919
04-01-2010, 05:24 PM
Belinda, welcome. You are safe and among friends here! Please contribute often. You are 100% right, feeling safe is such a basic need in life.

elle1919
04-01-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't have time to point out all the inconsistancies in this school newsletter Feb./10 and the schools public statements...but they're there...take a look..PDF...if I was a parent of a student there, I'd be enraged. Are they lying NOW or BEFORE? 'We dealt with it right' AND 'We didn't know'...don't mesh...

Number #1, though? AFTER she died, they sent a newsletter that, in part, said, "after she died we began hearing stories of bullying"!!
PDF, again... http://www.shschools.com/shhs/documents/newsletters/February.pdf

Dag nabbit...I couldn't snip from the newsletter but, what a farce, what a complete injustice to Phoebe. In working through their investigation they said they began to hear information that Phoebe was bullied. We know from reports that Phoebe's mother contacted the school, so why try to claim that they didn't know this young girl wasn't being bullied?


ETA...the rest of the newsletter turns my stomach.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Dag nabbit...I couldn't snip from the newsletter but, what a farce, what a complete injustice to Phoebe. In working through their investigation they said they began to hear information that Phoebe was bullied. We know from reports that Phoebe's mother contacted the school, so why try to claim that they didn't know this young girl wasn't being bullied?


ETA...the rest of the newsletter turns my stomach.

I edited my original post slightly...I had the quote off in my haste to post. But it's the same lie...

"after she died we began to hear information that Phoebe was bullied"

burbqueen
04-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Dag nabbit...I couldn't snip from the newsletter but, what a farce, what a complete injustice to Phoebe. In working through their investigation they said they began to hear information that Phoebe was bullied. We know from reports that Phoebe's mother contacted the school, so why try to claim that they didn't know this young girl wasn't being bullied?


ETA...the rest of the newsletter turns my stomach.


The school is trying to cover their butts and avoid a lawsuit. When someone said their soul hurts I too feel the same. 2 1/2 months to go and I think do I really wanna bring a kid into this world?

elle1919
04-01-2010, 05:41 PM
The school is trying to cover their butts and avoid a lawsuit. When someone said their soul hurts I too feel the same. 2 1/2 months to go and I think do I really wanna bring a kid into this world?

O/T The age old question. All I can say is yes, bring in and raise up a child that will make a difference! Congratulations to you. A day early and your little one will share my birthday!

eve
04-01-2010, 05:46 PM
Actually, we don't have details. It could involve some other girl(s), not Phoebe, for all we know.

As much as it pains me ;), I think you may be right, I was thinking it may very well be other girls and they are tacking the charges on. Also the key to the statutory rape equation is usually the span between the age of the two consenting to sex.

Eve

Paladine
04-01-2010, 05:51 PM
Dag nabbit...I couldn't snip from the newsletter but, what a farce, what a complete injustice to Phoebe. In working through their investigation they said they began to hear information that Phoebe was bullied. We know from reports that Phoebe's mother contacted the school, so why try to claim that they didn't know this young girl wasn't being bullied?


ETA...the rest of the newsletter turns my stomach.

And they SAW it. Reports are officials, teachers, actually witnessed it. She was chased around the school the day she died, I've read. Flannery was the student that yelled into the class at Phoebe, in front of the class, a disparaging term, Jan. 7th...Irish sl*t or wh*re, I've read. Imagine...someone with the name "Flannery Mullins" insulting the Irish? :waitasec:

Paladine
04-01-2010, 05:55 PM
found a forum...take it for what you will...

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=39294404&f=27&o=40

Muffet
04-01-2010, 05:59 PM
The school is trying to cover their butts and avoid a lawsuit. When someone said their soul hurts I too feel the same. 2 1/2 months to go and I think do I really wanna bring a kid into this world?
No doubt you're right, but so far, all they're doing is making people angrier.

One thing that stood out in the school's statement was where they said Phoebe was "complicated". It rubbed me all wrong. Why use that word to describe her at all, unless they wanted to imply there was something about her that justified their or the perps' behavior?

Sleazy.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 06:09 PM
Yeah, Texas. I live here, tell me about it!!! Very into cliques in some parts. Especially the wealthier suburbs.

She was such a pretty girl. I just wish someone would have told her that high school isnt forever. Such potential just wasted. Are the parents of the accused saying anything???

One Mother defended her Daughter in the media. It was one of the younger girls Mom. A search of mother, daughter, Phoebe or a like search should bring it up...she said her daughter never physically touched Phoebe, that Phoebe had called her Daughter names, it went both ways, she claimed.

elle1919
04-01-2010, 06:11 PM
found a forum...take it for what you will...

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=39294404&f=27&o=40


lol....YIKES....I will leave it. :blushing:

Paladine
04-01-2010, 06:12 PM
No doubt you're right, but so far, all they're doing is making people angrier.

One thing that stood out in the school's statement was where they said Phoebe was "complicated". It rubbed me all wrong. Why use that word to describe her at all, unless they wanted to imply there was something about her that justified their or the perps' behavior?

Sleazy.

So sleazy. Even the Adults seem to be treating Phoebe like she was too sensitive or messed up...even sensitive kids should be and feel safe in school...especially sensitive kids.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 06:14 PM
lol....YIKES....I will leave it. :blushing:

lol...;) I understand. That's why I put the disclaimer. But there are a few tidbit's there...I've been known to dig through trash, sometimes, I'll admit, to no avail...lol...

Muffet
04-01-2010, 06:23 PM
One Mother defended her Daughter in the media. It was one of the younger girls Mom. A search of mother, daughter, Phoebe or a like search should bring it up...she said her daughter never physically touched Phoebe, that Phoebe had called her Daughter names, it went both ways, she claimed.
Here:
Mom of teen charged with bullying South Hadley H.S. student Phoebe Prince into suicide blames victim
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/03/30/2010-03-30_mom_of_teen_charged_with_bullying_south_hadley_ hs_student_phoebe_prince_into_sui.html?ref=rss

Kudos to the NYDN for the headline, btw.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 06:28 PM
thanks much for the link, muffet. I'm so tired...too tired to even search right now...but I can't leave this thread...I just BBQ'ed dinner and fed my family between posts...but I'm going to need to take a break, soon...I need to wash. ;)

elle1919
04-01-2010, 06:37 PM
lol...;) I understand. That's why I put the disclaimer. But there are a few tidbit's there...I've been known to dig through trash, sometimes, I'll admit, to no avail...lol...

ha ha....I am happy to let you dig through the trash for me as long as you are willing! : )

Paladine
04-01-2010, 06:41 PM
a little background...

"Rep. Marty Walz, chairwoman of the Legislature’s education committee, said the issue has taken on new urgency after the death of 15-year-old Phoebe Prince. “The events in South Hadley underscore the importance of our taking action,” she said, “but we also need to respect the fact that students have the right to free speech.”

Parents of South Hadley High students are also calling for action on the part of the school. They say they want to know how school officials plan to discipline the girls involved in Prince’s bullying and what they will do to prevent further tragedies.

Mitchell Brouillard, who has a daughter at South Hadley, said there need to be clearer and stricter consequences for bullying. “I’d like to see a solid line in the sand, if you will, or in stone,” he said. “Pretty much like a three-step process — first being a verbal warning, then suspension, then expulsion.”

A petition is being circulated calling for South Hadley School Superintendent Gus Sayer to be fired over his handling of the issue.

This was February. CNN reported today and last night, the kids in question STILL have not been disciplined...others kids have but not these ones, not the ones charged...what's up with that?

http://www.wbur.org/2010/02/03/south-hadley-bullying

Paladine
04-01-2010, 06:57 PM
"But the media has largely missed that Title IX, the federal law that bans sex discrimination in education by recipients of federal funds, already applies to harassment in schools. Even without state anti-bullying protections, schools have an obligation to address and prevent sexual harassment. These horrible events serve as an unfortunate reminder to school administrators across the country."
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/phoebe-prince-title-ix%E2%80%99s-application-to-school-harassment-cases

Paladine
04-01-2010, 07:03 PM
"Students at Boston public schools have reported several cyberbullying complaints, including Facebook pages with derogatory captions and crude remarks directed at females who attend Charlestown High.

Matthew Wilder, a school district spokesman, said that officials learned of the reports "in the last few days" following calls to a new city hot line.

Wilder said officials are trying to find out who launched the Facebook pages, which show photographs of girls along with the crude remarks. Some girls have apparently launched pages targeting boys in retaliation, he said. All but two of the pages had been taken down as of midday.

City officials are moving with a sense of urgency to fight such websites in the wake of the suicide of Phoebe Prince, the 15-year-old South Hadley freshman whose death following months of torment from classmates sparked criminal charges and national outcry about how South Hadley school administrators handled the situation.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/04/boston_students_2.html

Muffet
04-01-2010, 07:09 PM
a little background...

"Rep. Marty Walz, chairwoman of the Legislature’s education committee, said the issue has taken on new urgency after the death of 15-year-old Phoebe Prince. “The events in South Hadley underscore the importance of our taking action,” she said, “but we also need to respect the fact that students have the right to free speech.”

Parents of South Hadley High students are also calling for action on the part of the school. They say they want to know how school officials plan to discipline the girls involved in Prince’s bullying and what they will do to prevent further tragedies.

Mitchell Brouillard, who has a daughter at South Hadley, said there need to be clearer and stricter consequences for bullying. “I’d like to see a solid line in the sand, if you will, or in stone,” he said. “Pretty much like a three-step process — first being a verbal warning, then suspension, then expulsion.”

A petition is being circulated calling for South Hadley School Superintendent Gus Sayer to be fired over his handling of the issue.

This was February. CNN reported today and last night, the kids in question STILL have not been disciplined...others kids have but not these ones, not the ones charged...what's up with that?

http://www.wbur.org/2010/02/03/south-hadley-bullying

I'd love to see how free their speech would be if they were doing this to one of the teachers.

What nonsense.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 07:09 PM
wonderful blog post, thoughtful and wise, imo...

We used to think that when kids acted out they were trying to tell us something. I would suggest that we not merely issue decrees or judgments but that we start listening. We would be well served by taking some of these kids and listening to what they need for us to hear. It is our job as adults to protect them, to keep them safe, to be their models. They are speaking in desperate acts of drugging and digging into peers and themselves. These are all symptoms of an alienation they have inherited -- from us.

It's our obligation to understand the symptom lest we imprison the drug abusing teenagers and the chaotic child bullies who are already in a mental and emotional prison. We are the guardians and the guards. It is not okay that bullying is a normal school sport nor is it that we tolerate it in our chronologically adult lives, without questioning ourselves.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-smaldino/bullying-didnt-you-know-i_b_521287.html

Paladine
04-01-2010, 07:10 PM
I'd love to see how free their speech would be if they were doing this to one of the teachers.

What nonsense.

Exactly! I thought, since when do kids get to call each other names and we call that "free speech'? We used to call it rude and unacceptable. Some of us still do.

Muffet
04-01-2010, 07:23 PM
IIRC, the courts have said that kids' rights to free speech only extends to the point that it doesn't interfere with discipline or education or go against school policy.

How that woman could pretend that bullying other students doesn't cross over those lines is just more proof that the administration is the source of the rot that killed this poor girl.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 07:32 PM
get ready for this...

"Phoebe was apparently a very private person; she bore a lot without talking to friends or with her parents or with anybody at school," Sayer told CNN.

"She didn't reveal to people what she was being subjected to and, unfortunately, until January 7, we were not aware of what she was being subjected to, so [there was] very little way we could have intervened in the bullying."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/01/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/?hpt=Sbin

jjenny
04-01-2010, 07:43 PM
I think you're right, too. They likely bragged to so many, rumor spread, hard to deny when speaking to police. And they might have figured, "why lie"...not thinking of statutory rape...

I must say, those statutory rape laws boggle my mind. This particular case aside, do 16 year old teenagers in MA know that they could face life in prison for having sex with a 15 year old?

Paladine
04-01-2010, 07:47 PM
CNN link...Sayer: "But, he added, expulsion is something educators are reluctant to countenance.

"It's a terrible punishment because that changes their whole lives and what they are capable of doing, and they have to figure out a way to renew and complete their education."
He's worried more about the defendants future than he did for Phoebe's...imo. Dying certainly affected her prospects.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/01/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/?hpt=Sbin

Paladine
04-01-2010, 07:51 PM
I must say, those statutory rape laws boggle my mind. This particular case aside, do 16 year old teenagers in MA know that they could face life in prison for having sex with a 15 year old?

True. They need to know that, imo. I heard someone say that the prosecutors may be using whatever they can to get them, though. The details of the case will be released Tuesday with the indictment. It could be very ugly. Something fired that D.A. up...

jjenny
04-01-2010, 08:01 PM
Lori Drew did, indeed, send messages herself via 2 different accounts.

http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/cyberlaw/usdrew51508ind.pdf

She was tried for unauthorized access of a computer system for violating MySpace's TOS, and she was in fact not convicted. But in my eyes she's lower than whale poop and deserves every ounce of misfortune that ever come her way. A grown woman tormenting a child should hang her head in shame every day for the rest of her miserable, worthless life and should die alone and in obscurity. If she was on fire on the side of the road I wouldn't piss on her to put it out.

I don't see anything in your link to suggest that woman personally send any messages to the girl. And she definitely didn't send the "world would be a better place without you" message.
In fact another person admitted to sending the message that "the world would be a better place without you."

jjenny
04-01-2010, 08:03 PM
True. They need to know that, imo. I heard someone say that the prosecutors may be using whatever they can to get them, though. The details of the case will be released Tuesday with the indictment. It could be very ugly. Something fired that D.A. up...

16 year old having sex with a 15 year old could lead to life in prison-I personally think those are ludicrous laws, and obviously they aren't uniformly applied, otherwise a lot of teenagers could end up serving life in prison.

elle1919
04-01-2010, 08:05 PM
get ready for this...



http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/01/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/?hpt=Sbin

Unbelievable. I guess that is their story and they are sticking to it.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 08:35 PM
16 year old having sex with a 15 year old could lead to life in prison-I personally think those are ludicrous laws, and obviously they aren't uniformly applied, otherwise a lot of teenagers could end up serving life in prison.

I think they would be even worse if they were uniformly applied. I'm against mandatory Min's., though. Cases vary, some kids are more mature, some more vulnerable. Some cases may appear to be flagrantly and cruelly taking advantage of a younger, weaker person. Those

BeenaBobba
04-01-2010, 08:38 PM
I must say, those statutory rape laws boggle my mind. This particular case aside, do 16 year old teenagers in MA know that they could face life in prison for having sex with a 15 year old?

You know, I kind of agree. I want Sean Mulveyhill to be punished to the full extent of the law, but I'm not sure I agree with the statutory rape charge if the sex was consensual. I think he sounds like a huge jerk, but does he deserve to be a sex offender registrant? I don't know about that. IMO, having the registry littered with teenagers who had consensual sex with other teenagers could take the focus off of more serious offenders (like violent rapists and pedophiles), and from what we've seen with the Jaycee Dugard and Chelsea King cases, officials aren't exactly up to par when it comes to monitoring the dangerous ones.

jjenny
04-01-2010, 08:40 PM
You know, I kind of agree. I want Sean Mulveyhill to be punished to the full extent of the law, but I'm not sure I agree with the statutory rape charge if the sex was consensual. I think he sounds like a huge jerk, but does he deserve to be a sex offender registrant? I don't know about that. IMO, having the registry littered with teenagers who had consensual sex with other teenagers could take the focus off of more serious offenders (like violent rapists and pedophiles), and from what we've seen with the Jaycee Dugard and Chelsea King cases, officials aren't exactly up to par when it comes to monitoring the dangerous ones.
Well the prosecutor kept talking about teen dating relationship, so I presume there are no allegations of forced sex. When there is a "dating relationship" between two minors with such a small age difference, then it's bizarre to me to see statutory rape charges which can put a teenager in prison for life.

Paladine
04-01-2010, 08:44 PM
16 year old having sex with a 15 year old could lead to life in prison-I personally think those are ludicrous laws, and obviously they aren't uniformly applied, otherwise a lot of teenagers could end up serving life in prison.

I think they would be even worse if they were uniformly applied. I'm against mandatory min's., though. Cases vary, some kids are more mature, some more vulnerable. Some cases may appear to be flagrantly and cruelly taking advantage of a younger, weaker, and socially weaker, person. Those should be prosecuted, imo. Other, more equal relationships, I wouldn't. But that's just my opinion, everybody has one. I do see the danger with interpretation. And how would people know how far and with whom, they could...let's say, 'romance' ? l"ll be polite. ;)

I just try not to complicate it. I'm good at complicating. ;) I haven't heard of a statutory rape case that I haven't supported, yet. Seems public opinion is getting the right cases prosecuted. Unless it is an issue that I haven't been tuned in to...and that's more than possible.

Muffet
04-01-2010, 08:47 PM
I'd love to see this kid have the kitchen sink thrown at him, but yeah, the sex laws in MA really are pretty antiquated.

Not only do they not have a Romeo and Juliet law, but you can still go to prison for adultery.

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/subject/about/sex.html

http://www.sexlaws.org/questions/Massachusetts

adnoid
04-01-2010, 08:49 PM
I don't see anything in your link to suggest that woman personally send any messages to the girl...

We see what we choose to see. It starts on Page 6 of the indictment.

Her challenge was not that she did not send them, but that there was no prosecutable offense even if she did. She was not acquitted of sending the messages, there was ample proof she did, but sending them only broke the MySpace TOS and was not prosecutable under California law.

The fact that it was not prosecutable does not mean to me that it was right and honorable. You are free to feel differently, of course.

impatientredhead
04-01-2010, 09:17 PM
We see what we choose to see. It starts on Page 6 of the indictment.

Her challenge was not that she did not send them, but that there was no prosecutable offense even if she did. She was not acquitted of sending the messages, there was ample proof she did, but sending them only broke the MySpace TOS and was not prosecutable under California law.

The fact that it was not prosecutable does not mean to me that it was right and honorable. You are free to feel differently, of course.

This is correct.
She did send the messages.
She admitted as much.
Her defense, and a very valid on in the courtroom, was that she broke no law.