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View Full Version : WI WI - Evelyn Hartley: Vanished While Babysitting, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953


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joellegirl
07-04-2004, 08:47 PM
Hi, I mentioned Evelyn in my "Cold Cases That Haunt Me Thread" but here are some more links:

http://www.findevelynhartley.org

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2004/01/11/news/02second.txt

The second link talks about a man who has come forward with a tape recording done in a bar in 1968, where a man says he and another man killed Evelyn. I am wondering why the man who had the tape didn't say something in 1968. I know these men could have been lying, but again there could be some truth to the story. It has always been suspected that Evelyn's abductors took her south out of LaCrosse on Rt 14. Clothes believed to be Evelyn's and the jacket and shoes of one of the abductors were tossed aside that road. And the town that the men mention on the tape-LaFarge- is in that direction. I and my family were in LaCrosse recently to visit relatives and I was talking with a local woman there who said she heard on the news that this story is really being seriously looked into and it is offering new clues (like the article says). I believe both of the men are dead now so we may never know the total truth or where they buried Evelyn.I'm guessing the authors who are writing Evelyn"s story are saving some of the new findings for the book, which I hope comes out soon. Of course if something big happens like solving this case I'm sure it will be on the news right away! So I ask my relatives often and check the LaCrosse Tribune online. I'm not sure if Evelyn's parents are still alive (Evelyn would be 65-almost 66 now) but I believe at least one of her siblings-a younger sister- is still alive. I sure hope this poor family can finally have some closure.

blueclouds
07-07-2004, 12:49 AM
In newspaper archives there was a POW returned from war recently when Evelyn went missing. When questioned, he said he "found a companion" that night... went to drive in... last time he saw her she was walking down the street.

I'm still digging into more papers but why would this guy not be looked into more. That's all the article said.


Cannot find where police looked into this guy further. A witness had said she saw him and someone looking like Evelyn with him that night.

Now, reading another article from 1963... 10 years later something suspicious pops out of the article. Her father, a bio professor went "looking" for his daughter when she didn't come home from babysitting. He found the 20 month old baby sleeping and the living room in disarray. Well, how would he know she was "gone" if no one got home yet to find anything. Why would he go looking for his daughter when she wasn't missing. Then he tells reporters he doesn't want to talk about it and bring it up anymore as he has 2 other children and they're (him and his wife) doing their best to raise them.

GOD, I'd be begging the media to make more stories. Back then, this wasn't as big news as things are today.

hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

joellegirl
07-07-2004, 02:09 AM
In newspaper archives there was a POW returned from war recently when Evelyn went missing. When questioned, he said he "found a companion" that night... went to drive in... last time he saw her she was walking down the street.

I'm still digging into more papers but why would this guy not be looked into more. That's all the article said.


Cannot find where police looked into this guy further. A witness had said she saw him and someone looking like Evelyn with him that night.

Now, reading another article from 1963... 10 years later something suspicious pops out of the article. Her father, a bio professor went "looking" for his daughter when she didn't come home from babysitting. He found the 20 month old baby sleeping and the living room in disarray. Well, how would he know she was "gone" if no one got home yet to find anything. Why would he go looking for his daughter when she wasn't missing. Then he tells reporters he doesn't want to talk about it and bring it up anymore as he has 2 other children and they're (him and his wife) doing their best to raise them.

GOD, I'd be begging the media to make more stories. Back then, this wasn't as big news as things are today.

hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Actualy, those articles are leaving out key points. The reason Evelyn's father went looking for her was that whenever she babysat, she would call home an hour later to let her parent's know she was ok. When she didn't call, her parents got worried and the father went to the house to check on her. When he arrived and there was no answer on the door, he walked around the house and saw a basement window opened. What he found inside were obvious signs of a struggle-- his daughter shoes and glasses on the floor and mud.. He called police and whn they arrived the found pools of blood outside the basement window. Her father actually did take a lie dectector test to clear himself, and he was at the police station practically every day for months after Evelyn vansihed hoping to get some answers. Perhaps the article from the 1960's was when he had given up hope and didn't want to talk about it anymore.

I've never heard of the POW story but I don't think he had anything to do with it.From the evidence at the crime scene, Evelyn was in no condition to be out with a man at a drive in and walk home. Evelyn arrived to babysit at 6:45pm that night(actually the father of the baby picked her up and drove her over-he and his wife were family friends), and the mom instructed her to put the baby down at 7pm and cover her 15 minutes later. Then they left to attend the college homecoming game.Evelyn was the kind of teen who could be trusted to do as she was instructed. Eveyln's abduction is believed to have occured between 7-7:15pm because the baby was found "uncovered" and neighbors did hear screams at that time but dismissed it as children playing. Another witness came forward saying he was driving past the home at about that time and saw a man waking with a young woman and that the woman was staggering and he was supporting her. He just thought it was some people who did too much partying. A few moments later he saw who he believed to be the same couple in the backseat of a car with the woman leaning forward and another man in the front seat. It is believed that who ever took Evelyn broke in the basement window, surprised her in the livingrom where a struggle ensued explaining the mud on the floor, one of Evelyn's shoe and her glasses. He supposedly dragged her downstairs where her other shoe fell off and out the open window where the other man gave her a blow to the head causing heavy bleeding The next morning a trail of blood was found for a couple of blocks and stopped at the street, which explains the man dragging the woman who was staggering to the waiting car. A massive search began for her and draged on from months. Citizens-mainly teenage boys came in droves to volunteering take lie detector test just to clear themselves and help narrow down the search. I guess hearing this story all of my life from relatives who lived in LaCrosse when it happened, I truly believe Evelyn was take against her will by two total strangers that must have decided to lurk in that new subdivsion that night to see what they could find, and saw a young girl through the window who appeared to be alone and decided to take her and do harm. Her family was completely heartsick, patricipated in the searches etc, but did eventually move away.

Blueclouds, where did you find that article from the 1960s? Id like to read it. Thanks for your post-I hope explained the story better to you, especialy why her father went looking for her that night.

The book "Getting Away With Murder" by Ed Baumann has a very detaled account of this entire case. It was evident Evelyn was badly injured and take aganst her will. I actually drove past the house where this happened recently, and it is your typical 50's style ranch subdivision. Hard to believe such horrible thing happened there.

joellegirl
07-07-2004, 02:32 AM
I meant to add that when the parents got worried that she didn't call, they tried many times calling her but got no answer. They waited some more, trying not to worry and then the father decided to take a drive and check on her. His daughter missing, the baby alone, and the open window, her shoes and glasses and mud on the floor prompted him to call the police. Because it was dark he didn't see the blood outside, but the police saw it when they shined their flashlights by the open basement window. The mud on the carpet and the footprints outside did match the mud on the shoes found along the highway. If I am rambling please forgive me-it is quite late here. I hope this helps.

blueclouds
07-07-2004, 02:57 AM
I have found them on the www.newspaperarchive.com there is a free 2 week sign up to check out the articles if you want. They will charge you after the 2 weeks though, so you need to inform them prior to that NOT to charge you if you don't want the yearly subscription to the site. If you don't have credit card, I can email you the articles or post them on a private site as I'm not allowed to "distribute" them. Copyright laws but you could see them privately. Let me know, PM me or leave a message here or try to read them yourself. There are a lot of articles on there so you could read more info. I, myself have not even got through all of them about Evelyn.

Thanks for the input with the dad. Journalists print what they like and not knowing all the background can make some comments suspicious.

joellegirl
07-07-2004, 03:30 AM
Thanks for the link about the articles blueclouds! I will start readng tomorrow!

smile22
07-07-2004, 12:32 PM
what always struck me in this case was that the baby was never harmed, my answer is why? i guess they didnt want to touch the baby, i do hope that they find her body, its so sad if her parents were alive they would be in their what 80s 90s

joellegirl
07-07-2004, 12:45 PM
Yes, it is a miracle the 20 month old toddler was not harmed. I've read that her family and she herself believe it was a miracle. I'm guessing the abductors didn't know there was a child in the house, or because the child slept through the whole thing and didn't interrupt they didn't harm her.Or maybe they had no desire to deal with a toddler, they just wanted Evelyn. I have read that that family(who Evelyn was babysitting for) did remain in LaCrosse but moved to a different house, and the Hartley family appears to have stayed in the LaCrosse area until the early 1970's. It appears Evelyn's father has died, but not sure about her mother. She had an older brother and a younger sister as well, and even another older brother who died of polio before Evelyn was abducted.. That poor family, lost one child to disease and another to (most likely) murder.

Just posting again as it is not showing up on the thread

joellegirl
07-07-2004, 01:13 PM
I'm posting this again as my first post isn't showing up.

Yes, it is a miracle that the 20 month old toddler was not harmed. I have read that her family and she herself are still amazed she wasn't harmed. I'm guessing that the abdcutors didn't know there was a toddler in the house, or because she slept through the whole thing and didn't interrupt, they didn't bother with her. Or maybe they just ddn't want to deal with a toddler, they just wanted Evelyn.

The family that Evelyn was sitting for moved to another house but did remain in LaCrosse. From what I've read the Hartley family did remain in the LaCrosse area until the 1970's. It appears Evelyn's father has died but I'm not sure about her mother. Evelyn had an older brother and a younger sister who I am guessing are still alive. She did have another older brother who died of polio before she was abducted. That poor family, lost one child to disease and another to (most likely) murder.

Richard
11-29-2004, 09:08 PM
One wonders what physical evidence was left behind at the crime scene. Fingerprints, footprints, blood on broken window, fibers, weapons or break-in tools, etc. Probably a lot that went un-noticed back then could have led to solving the case today.

joellegirl
11-30-2004, 12:34 AM
One wonders what physical evidence was left behind at the crime scene. Fingerprints, footprints, blood on broken window, fibers, weapons or break-in tools, etc. Probably a lot that went un-noticed back then could have led to solving the case today.

Richard, here is a link to an article in the LaCrosse Tribune that you might find interesting. The lengths the police and citizens of La Crosse went to trying to solve this case back then is quite impressive and I agree that if they only had today's technology this case just might have been solved early on.

I am waiting anxiously for the book on Evelyn to come out. I noticed the website the authors had no longer works, and there hasn't been any mention of the book for a long time. I keep in touch with a person who works at the LaCrosse Library and he said one of the authors comes in to the archive dept and he is going to let me know the progress as soon as he sees her again. I hope they didn't decide to not follow through on the book.

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2003/10/24/news/02hartley.txt

Richard
12-01-2004, 01:34 PM
The part of the story that doesn't make much sense is the part about the intruders dragging the girl all the way down the basement, and then trying to get her out the back window. It would have made far more sense for them to have simply exited through any door. That is probably what they did, since the father seemed to have no problem entering the house to find the baby asleep.
Was the house a "split level" type home with normal height windows in the back? Or was it like most pre 1953 houses with casemate windows for the basement? It would have been hard enough to enter a house through a casemate window, let alone going OUT that way with a struggling girl.
I wonder if any of that blood exists today for DNA testing?

joellegirl, check your mail box, this site.

joellegirl
12-01-2004, 03:12 PM
The part of the story that doesn't make much sense is the part about the intruders dragging the girl all the way down the basement, and then trying to get her out the back window. It would have made far more sense for them to have simply exited through any door. That is probably what they did, since the father seemed to have no problem entering the house to find the baby asleep.
Was the house a "split level" type home with normal height windows in the back? Or was it like most pre 1953 houses with casemate windows for the basement? It would have been hard enough to enter a house through a casemate window, let alone going OUT that way with a struggling girl.
I wonder if any of that blood exists today for DNA testing?

joellegirl, check your mail box, this site.


I have always wondered myself why the abductor(s) dragged Evelyn all the way back downstairs and out the window instead of using the front door. But evidence shows she was dragged down into the basement because one of her shoes was found on the basement floor (the other was on the livingroom floor along with her glasses and mud left by the abductor's shoes). Also, her blood was found right outside the basement window, as well as on the side of a neighbor's house,and a blood trail leading through backyards and to a neighboring street. When the father came to check on her because she hadn't phoned home as was her practice(he and his wife,- Evelyn's mother- were getting worried because it had been almost two hours and she hadn't called-she always called within an hour of her arrival), he found the front door locked, and he could see the lights on and the radio playing (she had been listening to the local college homecoming football game-where the people she was babysitting for were in attendance). After banging on the door and windows, he found the basement window pryed (spelling) open (it is on the side of the house and is in a window well) and that is how the father entered the house, the same way the abductor apparently did. He saw his daughter's shoe, then crept up the stairs to find only the baby alseep in her crib, but Evelyn was gone. As i mentioned before her other shoe, glasses and mud was on the carpet. Feeling a terrible sence of dread the father ran across the street to a neighbors and phoned police (he thought it best not to use the phone at the house Evelyn was abducted from in case there were fingerprints on it). By the way, the father was cleared right away in having anything to do with his daughter's disappearance. He vouluntarily took a lie detector test as did many citizens of LaCrosse. She is thought to have been abducted between 7:00-7:20pm because her instructions were to put the baby to bed at 7pm and cover her 15 minutes later. Evelyn was a dependable girl and could be trusted to do as she was told, and the baby was never covered. Also neighbors heard screams about that time but looked outside and saw nothing.

I have seen the house twice recently and have seen a picture of it taken right after the abduction. In 1953 it was a newer small ranch-two bedroom-maybe three and the basement windows had a window wells around them. It appears the abductor entered the window , snuck up the stairs and surprised Evelyn in the livingroom where it appears a struggle ensued. She propbably didn't hear him coming as she was listening to the radio. It is thought another abductor was waiting outside the basement window to pounce on her as she was pushed out. With all the blood around, it appears she was hurt badly at this point. In an earlier post on this thread I mentioned a witness who saw a man supporting a young woman who was staggering and he later saw them sitting in a backseat of a car with the woman leaning forward with another man in the driver's seat. He thought they had been drinking and dismissed it. It is believed this was the abductor dragging a badly injured Evelyn to a waiting car and from there is the big mystery of where she was taken.

Today the house has been sided, has a two car garage added, and changes done to the way the roof angles on one side, but the windows (now with shutters) are all in the same place, including that basement window. It is quite eerie to see that. I've read the family sold that house quickly. I'm sure the current owners know the history, but I couldn't live in a house where something like that happened. I've also seen the house Evelyn lived with her family at that time, it is an older Victorian about a mile and a half away. Having family in LaCrosse, my family and I are there at least once or twice a year.

So yes, I wonder too why once they had a hold of Evelyn they didn't leave out the front door. Seeing the basement window,

the abductor must have been skinny. Evelyn I believe was tall and thin as well. I might be able to post a link to newspaper picture of the window-I will try and see if i can find it. I have only seen the window from my car as we passed by, so mabye closer up it is bigger.

Richard, I got your pm and will be answering soon.

joellegirl
12-01-2004, 04:25 PM
Here are some links to newspaper articles on the Hartley case. I believe the 2nd link has a picture of the basement window I mentioned in my above post.

Page One: "Our Greatest Mystery"

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00120012.jpg

Page Two:"Our Greatest Mystery"

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00130013.jpg

Page One:"Hardly a Trace.."

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley00140014.jpg

Page Two: "Hardly a Trace..."

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00150015.jpg

One of many articles right after the abduction:

Page One:

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00060006.jpg

Page Two:

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00070007.jpg

joellegirl
12-01-2004, 04:39 PM
The link to the first page of "Hardly a Trace.." didn't work so I'll try it again:

http://www.lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00140014.jpg

joellegirl
12-31-2004, 03:52 PM
Not sure how many members here are interested in this case like I am, but I though I'd mention I learned that the book that was being written about Evelyn is no longer in the works. I was told the person sponsoring it ran out of money. I am disappointed as I think it would have been an interesting book and maybe could have helped solve the case (small chance but the more an old case like this is kept in the media the better chance of maybe someone coming forward with any info, if there is any.) Maybe someone else can take over as it appeared the writers worked hard at it and it's a shame to see that work go to waste.

TisHerself
01-01-2005, 08:36 PM
Hi I am just wondering not only why they took her out the basement window, why did they hurt her so badly in kidnapping her? What I mean is when someone is kidnapped they usually hurt them after they kidnap them. So what was the point? if there were two of them like they think and they took her by surprise they could have easily overpowered her and taken her out the front door.

joellegirl
01-01-2005, 10:09 PM
Hi I am just wondering not only why they took her out the basement window, why did they hurt her so badly in kidnapping her? What I mean is when someone is kidnapped they usually hurt them after they kidnap them. So what was the point? if there were two of them like they think and they took her by surprise they could have easily overpowered her and taken her out the front door.

I've always wondered that too . My guess is maybe they didn't mean to hurt her so badly at that point, but they wanted to silence her (several neighbors reported screaming at about 7:15 pm but dismissed it as children playing ,which I think they meant older children and /or teenagers, since it was after dark and and it was the college homecoming night), and hit her too hard or something to that effect. The fact that blood was splashed against a neighbors house also shows possible signs of a struggle. It appears Evelyn did scream for her life, and even after being injured had lurched up against the neighbors house in trying to break free or in a semiconcious state.

These questions and many more are part of why Evelyn's disappearance has not been forgotten by LaCrosse residents. As a paragraph in "Getting Away with Murder "by Ed Baumann puts it
"October 24, 1953 will most be remembered (around LaCrosse) as the night a bright young bobby-soxer names Evelyn Grace Hartley disappeared in a horrible splash of blood, leaving behind her jacket, glasses and shoes.The tragic disappearance of the 15 year old babysitter remains Wisconsin's number one unsolved mystery. And the ghastly fate she quite possibly met is almost beyond human comprehension."

Evelyn forever vanished into the darkness, leaving behind many unanswered questions.

joellegirl
08-12-2005, 06:32 PM
I just read in the LaCrosse Tribune that the book on Evelyn Hartley, 15 year old babysitter who was abducted in 1953 from LaCrosse Wi and never found is finally coming out.

Link to article:

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2005/08/12/news/00lead.txt

joellegirl
08-12-2005, 06:41 PM
Link to Evelyn's case on The Charley Project:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hartley_evelyn.html

shadowangel
08-20-2005, 10:38 AM
joellegirl-I'm impressed with your knowledge of this case. Do you know if anything was ever heard or found of the two girls (16 year-old Helen Owens and 15 year-old Barbara Brown) who disappeared from Rhinelander, 200 miles from Lacrosse, the week before Evelyn vanished?

I look forward to the book.

joellegirl
08-21-2005, 01:15 PM
I was very very young when I first heard about Evelyn, and her case is what sparked my interest in unsolved disappearances. I have family who lived in LaCrosse at that time (and still do live there), so that is how I first learned about the mystery of Evelyn Hartley. I have researched her case for years, seen the house (from the outside)she was abducted from, and the house she lived in. I am very glad the book will be finally coming out this fall.

Shadowangel, amazingly I have never heard of those two missing girls from Rhinelander. That is very interesting. Do you have more details? I have a vague memory of reading about another missing girl in Wisconsin around that time but I can't remember her name. I wonder if these two girls were found shortly after? I know there was a very extensive search for Evelyn and things were done like opening new graves to see if she had been buried in one, so I think they would have looked into the case of the two missing girls as a connection. Where did you first read about the two girls?

Thanks for posting!

shadowangel
08-21-2005, 01:53 PM
The story of the two girls was basically a footnote to an article about Evelyn when her disappearance occured. As the article goes, the two girls were hitching a ride with three boys when the car they were travelling in had a flat tire. The three boys left the girls and went to get the tire repaired. When they returned, the girls were gone.A later article, a few weeks into the Hartley investigation, stated the sherriff believed the girls had ran off to Milwaukee, since one of the girls had once mentioned to a friend that she would like to go to Milwaukee.
How's that an in-depth investigation? Seems like the typical '50s good girls wouldn't ride with boys anyway thing to me...

joellegirl
08-24-2005, 05:37 PM
The story of the two girls was basically a footnote to an article about Evelyn when her disappearance occured. As the article goes, the two girls were hitching a ride with three boys when the car they were travelling in had a flat tire. The three boys left the girls and went to get the tire repaired. When they returned, the girls were gone.A later article, a few weeks into the Hartley investigation, stated the sherriff believed the girls had ran off to Milwaukee, since one of the girls had once mentioned to a friend that she would like to go to Milwaukee.
How's that an in-depth investigation? Seems like the typical '50s good girls wouldn't ride with boys anyway thing to me...

Very interesting. I must have missed this story in all my Evelyn Hartley research. Is it in Newspaper Archives? I only had a brief membership and remember lots of Hartley articles. I sure hope their disappearance was given more attention that it appears and that they were found. I did a google search but didn't find anything.

shadowangel
08-24-2005, 05:57 PM
Yes, the articles were in NewspaperArchives.com. I couldn't find anything further. I can try to link the articles somehow.

Is it true that the only door or window found open was the one used by the kidnapper?

joellegirl
08-24-2005, 10:53 PM
Yes, the articles were in NewspaperArchives.com. I couldn't find anything further. I can try to link the articles somehow.

Is it true that the only door or window found open was the one used by the kidnapper?

Yes, when Evelyn's father went to check on her,(because she hadn't phoned home as was her usual practice an hour into her babysitting job-after two hours he went to see why she wasn't answering the phone) he found all the doors and windows locked. As he walked around the house he found a side basement window gaping open. That is how the father entered the house. He saw one of Evelyn's shoes at the foot of the stairs, then when he went upstairs, all the lights were still on, the radio playing, and Evelyn's other shoe and eyeglasses on the carpet. There was fresh mud on the carpet and obvious signs of a struggle. After finding the baby unharmed in her crib, he called police and they found the blood outside by the basement window as they shined their flashlights around. The next morning a trail of blood zig zagging through yards was found and it ended at the street. Another splash of blood was found on the side of another house. It is believed Evelyn was badly injured as she was pushed out of the basement window, perhaps someone struck her head. That is why it is believed it is very possible there were at least two abductors. While one had a hold of her and pushed her out the window, the other was waiting to pounce on her. Neighbors did hear screams, but looked out their window and didn't see anything(it was dark by then) and dismissed it as children playing.

I've never understood why the abductor(s) dragged Evelyn back down into the basement and out that window. Why didn't they use the front or back door?

I believe the book, "Where's Evelyn" has some crime scene pictures in it (shoes and eyeglasses on floor...). I saw a newsclip from a LaCrosse tv station (online) and they were paging through the book. I have ordered the book, but it is not due out until next month.

shadowangel
08-25-2005, 06:52 AM
A very curious circumstance, this...to quote Poe. I read several articles on the case, and what is available on the web. Why would this one window be open? A house in 1953 would, most likely, have casement windows with locks on top, which are virtually impossible to open from outside. Breaking the window I can understand. Was it ever considered a possibility that Evelyn was expecting a visitor that night? One difficulty in checking into this case is the newspapers' tendency to write opinion in place of fact. If one were to believe the stories of the time, every girl in America was a virgin until the age of 30 (with the exception of the tramps who rode in cars with boys...)

It appeared to me that the police were primarily concerned with stranger abduction, most especially Ed Gein (who I seriously doubt had anything to do with this, as he concentrated on "replacements" for his mother for victims and was about the same size as Evelyn was at the time...)

Richard
08-25-2005, 10:48 AM
A very curious circumstance, this...to quote Poe. I read several articles on the case, and what is available on the web. Why would this one window be open? A house in 1953 would, most likely, have casement windows with locks on top, which are virtually impossible to open from outside. Breaking the window I can understand. Was it ever considered a possibility that Evelyn was expecting a visitor that night? One difficulty in checking into this case is the newspapers' tendency to write opinion in place of fact. If one were to believe the stories of the time, every girl in America was a virgin until the age of 30 (with the exception of the tramps who rode in cars with boys...)

It appeared to me that the police were primarily concerned with stranger abduction, most especially Ed Gein (who I seriously doubt had anything to do with this, as he concentrated on "replacements" for his mother for victims and was about the same size as Evelyn was at the time...)
Police, at the time of Evelyn's 1953 disappearance, did not know anything about Ed Gein. He was arrested in 1957 for the murder of Bernice Worden, a 58 year-old woman who disappeared in 1957. When arrested, Gein talked freely about the many bodies and body parts found in his home - most of which had been stolen from graves in cemeteries. There were at least 15 bodies found in his home. He also confessed to the 1954 murder of Mary Hogan, whom he had shot and beheaded. Although police suspected him of at least three other murders, Gein claimed that he had not killed anyone else. Ed Gein was declared criminally insane and spent the next 27 years of his life in a state mental holpital, where he died of natural causes in 1984.

The circumstances of Evelyn's disappearance would indicate that at least two persons were involved in her abduction. It is indeed strange that an intruder would enter a basement window and then force her out through that same window, rather than exiting more quickly and easily through a door. To get her out of the basement and for her not to run away, she would have had to have been subdued by an accomplice outside. Also, the perpetrator who entered the house would probably have needed a hand to get out of the basement window himself.

A blood trail which went through several yards would indicate a cut artery or a head wound which continued to bleed profusely. An experienced deer hunter and tracker would have been able to identify the type of wound, and whether the person were running, walking, or being dragged. It is likely that she was guided by her abductor(s) to a waiting vehicle and driven away if the blood trail ended abruptly.

The abductor would have been fairly agile and strong to have entered the house as he did, and to drag a struggling girl down the stairs and out a basement window. The likelyhood of an accomplice would tend to argue against Gein being the perpetrator.

joellegirl
08-25-2005, 11:21 AM
About the one and only window being open I'm guessing maybe it was an oversight by the homeowner. I do believe the home was brand new and they had just moved in recently. That is the reason the ground was so muddy.

Police found pry marks on one of the bedroom windows, so it appears the abductors tried other windows first. Maybe this basement window was accidentally not locked all the way and it wasn't hard to open.

I believe the police looked into the possibility that the abductor(s) may have been a boyfriend or classmate. According to Evelyn's parents and friends, she didn't have a boyfriend at that time and had only had a few dates prior. Of course 15 year old girls can be full of secrets and she may have a had a boyfriend, but I guess they were just going on her personality profile that everyone gave. She was an honor student, involved in various school activites, was friendly but quiet and appeared quite mature and dependable. Her family appeared close and on top of what their daughter was up to, but of course anything is possible. Because of the police thinking it may have been a male classmate, they conducted lie detector tests on all junior and senior boys the following spring. Nothing came of that. It really appeared that she was not expecting anyone, with all those signs of a violent struggle, or at the very least if she were expecting someone she didn't think she would be harmed.

I have never thought the abductor was Ed Gein. As other posters have mentioned, Evelyn just wasn't his type of victim,I don't think he would have been able to subdue her himself, he denied involvement in her case, and it just seems too easy and simple-blame every Wisconsin mystery on Ed Gein. And as Richard mentioned, Ed Gein was unknown to police in 1953, so he wasn't thought of until 1957 when his grisly crimes were discovered.



Part of the mystery is trying to figure if this was a total random abduction or someone had been stalking Evelyn and waited for the right moment.

Even though the neighborhood was brand new, like something out of "Leave it to Beaver"--full of young families, bad things can happen anywhere.

joellegirl
09-26-2005, 06:31 PM
"Where's Evelyn" is now available. I have my copy and have read it. It is a very good solid account of Evelyn's disapperance, the aftermath etc. Also includes many pictures, and remembrances from friends and classmates etc.. You get to learn more about who Evelyn was, not just that she is someone who disappeared.

The book also covers some new clues.

I highly reccomend this book if you are interested in Evelyn's disapperance, and even if you are simply interested in any very old unsolved cold case.

Contact Susan Hessel, (the author) at shessel3248@charter.net, if you are interested in purchasing a copy.

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 09:58 AM
Just bumping since today, October 24, marks 52 years since Evelyn vanished.

docwho3
10-24-2005, 11:25 AM
I post this tentatively because I haven't looked into the case at all yet and have only read a post or two:

About the one and only window being open I'm guessing maybe it was an oversight by the homeowner. I do believe the home was brand new and they had just moved in recently. That is the reason the ground was so muddy.

Police found pry marks on one of the bedroom windows, so it appears the abductors tried other windows first. Maybe this basement window was accidentally not locked all the way and it wasn't hard to open. . . .
I watched a TV show on where they hired a burglar to test peoples home security by burgaling their home while they were away(with their permission & knowledge.) One of his favorite tactics was to look for a window that was unlatched, even if it was on an upper floor of a 2 story home. I guess I am wondering if this was done by someone with experience in home breaking.

. . .Even though the neighborhood was brand new, like something out of "Leave it to Beaver"--full of young families, bad things can happen anywhere.
I agree. In fact I believe it was even more likely to happen given the fact that it was a "brand new" neighborhood. I am wondering if it was one of the new families or if this was more something done by someone that was working over the new burglary pickings of a recently built neighborhood. Its almost guaranteed to have stuff worth taking since all things are new.

And in a new neighborhood that was recently built (if thats the case) I would be looking at who would have been burgling the homes. I don't know whether people should be looking at some local (but not part of that neighborhood)burglars or whether this would have been some part of a more pro bunch that moved around to follow new neighborhood building. I don't have experience in that.

Was burglary the main objective here or was the perp just someone with burglary in their background? If he had that background but had stepped "up" to bigger crime then he might have a local burglary record.

I will read more about the case as I still have a couple more questions such as :Where was the home situated? Was it the first home or one of the first homes to be seen if you came into the neighborhood? Was it just the newest? Was there anything to make it a better first choice for a burglary than choosing another home on that date? Who moved them into the home?

Guess I better go do some reading.

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 12:02 PM
Interesting thoughts Docwho3.

Investigators have looked at all angles of this case, and it seems burglary wasn't the motive, as nothing material was missing. Whoever broke into that house that night seemed intent on getting Evelyn as there was a violent struggle and they seemed determined to get her out of that house and away with them. Maybe at first they had burglary on their mind, then saw this young girl in the house alone and had other ideas. If it was rape, they could have done it right there(not sure if they knew about the baby in the house) but they seemed intent on taking her to another place. As mentioned before, it appears Evelyn fought her attacker(s) and one would think they might have given up at this point as it was getting too hard but it appears they were not going to let her go and they hurt her badly (with all the blood left behind). It is such a mystery, was it for burglary, or rape, did they know Evelyn or were they looking for any young girl, was this a spur of the moment crime or a long thought out one? One of the many things mentioned in the book is Evelyn wasn't this family's usual babysitter, and investigators wonder of the usual babysitter was the supposed target.

I have been to the neighborhood and the house is near a corner, and at that time since the neighborhood was so new, there were no trees, and gravel roads. It was very stark, and one could have seen the house from a ways away. Today , of course there are trees everywhere and the arealooks quite different than it did 52 years ago. All of the houses were new at that time, so there seemed nothing special about this house.

Richard
10-24-2005, 12:16 PM
Evelyn Hartley
Missing since October 24, 1953, from La Crosse, Wisconsin
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: November 21, 1937
Age at Time of Disappearance: 15 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 126 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blue eyes; brown, straight hair. Hartley wears eyeglasses, but did not have them on when she disappeared.
Clothing: She was last seen wearing size 16 red denim White Stag jeans, a size 34 plain white Ship n' Shore blouse, and white bobby socks.

Circumstances of Disappearance

Hartley, a 15-year-old Central High School student disappeared October 24, 1953, from the home of a La Crosse State College professor where she was baby-sitting. She was supposed to call her parents during the evening but did not. Her father tried to call several times that day and never got an answer. He became worried and went to the house to check on his daughter.

Hartley's father found all the windows in the house locked except a basement window in the back. Bloodstains were found around that window and in the grass of the yard, and there was a bloody handprint on the side of the house next door. The furniture inside the living room was disarranged. Hartley's eyeglasses, which were broken, and one of her shoes were on the living room floor. Her other shoe was found in the basement. There was no other trace of Hartley inside the home. The twenty-month-old girl she had been baby-sitting was found unharmed, sleeping in her crib.

Tracker dogs traced Hartley's scent as far as the street, leading authorities to believe she had been taken away in a car. They believe she disappeared at approximately 7:15 p.m. She never was found though there was an intensive search. It remains one of La Crosse's greatest unsolved mysteries.

Police suspect Edward Theodore Gein may have been involved in Hartley's case. He was visiting relatives in La Crosse, just blocks from the home where she was babysitting, on the night of her disappearance. In 1957, authorities in Plainfield, Wisconsin arrested Gein for murdering a local female tavern keeper. Gein confessed only to the murders of two tavern keepers. He was declared insane and sent to a mental hospital, where he died in 1984. Gein is also considered a possible suspect in the disappearance of Georgia Jean Weckler , who was abducted from from Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin in 1947. Neither of them have ever been found. They do not fit the profile for Gein's known victims; both of the people he killed were middle-aged women.

Investigators

If you have any information concerning this case, please contact: La Crosse Police Department 608-785-5962
Or
FindEvelynHartley.org Source Information:
La Crosse Tribune
FindEvelynHartley.org
The Charley Project
Case Updated on: May 28, 2005

Marilynilpa
10-24-2005, 12:36 PM
Evelyn Hartley
Missing since October 24, 1953, from La Crosse, Wisconsin
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: November 21, 1937
Age at Time of Disappearance: 15 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 126 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blue eyes; brown, straight hair. Hartley wears eyeglasses, but did not have them on when she disappeared.
Clothing: She was last seen wearing size 16 red denim White Stag jeans, a size 34 plain white Ship n' Shore blouse, and white bobby socks.

Circumstances of Disappearance

Hartley, a 15-year-old Central High School student disappeared October 24, 1953, from the home of a La Crosse State College professor where she was baby-sitting. She was supposed to call her parents during the evening but did not. Her father tried to call several times that day and never got an answer. He became worried and went to the house to check on his daughter.

Hartley's father found all the windows in the house locked except a basement window in the back. Bloodstains were found around that window and in the grass of the yard, and there was a bloody handprint on the side of the house next door. The furniture inside the living room was disarranged. Hartley's eyeglasses, which were broken, and one of her shoes were on the living room floor. Her other shoe was found in the basement. There was no other trace of Hartley inside the home. The twenty-month-old girl she had been baby-sitting was found unharmed, sleeping in her crib.

Tracker dogs traced Hartley's scent as far as the street, leading authorities to believe she had been taken away in a car. They believe she disappeared at approximately 7:15 p.m. She never was found though there was an intensive search. It remains one of La Crosse's greatest unsolved mysteries.

Police suspect Edward Theodore Gein may have been involved in Hartley's case. He was visiting relatives in La Crosse, just blocks from the home where she was babysitting, on the night of her disappearance. In 1957, authorities in Plainfield, Wisconsin arrested Gein for murdering a local female tavern keeper. Gein confessed only to the murders of two tavern keepers. He was declared insane and sent to a mental hospital, where he died in 1984. Gein is also considered a possible suspect in the disappearance of Georgia Jean Weckler , who was abducted from from Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin in 1947. Neither of them have ever been found. They do not fit the profile for Gein's known victims; both of the people he killed were middle-aged women.

Investigators

If you have any information concerning this case, please contact: La Crosse Police Department 608-785-5962
Or
FindEvelynHartley.org Source Information:
La Crosse Tribune
FindEvelynHartley.org
The Charley Project
Case Updated on: May 28, 2005
About the bloody handprint - was LE able to determine whose blood it was? I'm assuming it was Evelyn's, although it could have belonged to one of the kidnappers. She probably put up quite a struggle.

It appears Evelyn was not a little petite girl (at age 15 wearing a size 16 pants and a size 34 top), so it seems like dragging her through that window definitely would require two people.

I can understand the perpetrators getting into the house through an unlocked basement window, but why use that same window to carry Evelyn out of the house? Going through the front door would have been much easier. The tracking dogs tracked her scent to the street in front of the house, leading LE to assume she was taken away by car.

I wonder how dark it was at 7:15 p.m. in the latter part of October? Were there streetlights in that neighborhood?

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 02:13 PM
About the bloody handprint - was LE able to determine whose blood it was? I'm assuming it was Evelyn's, although it could have belonged to one of the kidnappers. She probably put up quite a struggle.

It appears Evelyn was not a little petite girl (at age 15 wearing a size 16 pants and a size 34 top), so it seems like dragging her through that window definitely would require two people.

I can understand the perpetrators getting into the house through an unlocked basement window, but why use that same window to carry Evelyn out of the house? Going through the front door would have been much easier. The tracking dogs tracked her scent to the street in front of the house, leading LE to assume she was taken away by car.

I wonder how dark it was at 7:15 p.m. in the latter part of October? Were there streetlights in that neighborhood?

Actually, Evelyn was only 125 pounds and stood at 5 feet 7 inches. I think the sizes were different then. A size 16 wasn't the same as today's size 16. It sounds to me she was tall and slim. I have seen full length pictures of her in the high school yearbooks (copies obtained from LaCrosse Library) and she appears slim.

About how dark it was, I was just emailing back and forth the other day with the LaCrosse Library and asking what the weather was like that day, time of sunset etc. The newspaper from that day states the evening was fair skies, and a low of 37 degrees. Wisconsin didn't observe daylight savings time until 1957, so the sun set at approx. 4:48pm. So, it must have been quite dark at 7-7:30pm, except there was a full moon that night.

There were not any streetlights yet, as the neighborhood was still so new.

In the book, other scenerios are mentioned about how Evelyn was taken out of the house, since taking her out of the basement window doesn't make much sense. On thought was maybe she threw her shoe down into the basement when she heard some noise, and she ran out the front door (with abductors behind her) and the door locked as it shut behind her. She may have been running towards the side of the house when she was pummeled by the abductors as they struck her, most likely her head, due to all that blood. The blood trail led across back yards and stopped at a street in front of a house that was sort of kiddy-corner to the back of the house she was babystting at. So she was dragged through backyards and past garages and houses before supposedly put into a car. They do believe the blood on the house was Evelyn's.

In the book it mentions a man who was driving past the house around 7:15 (on his way to pick up his brother in law )and saw two men supporting a woman who was staggering through the yards. He dismissed it as people partying as it was the college homecoming that night(Actually, that is where the family who Evelyn was babysitting for was, at the game). A few minutes later he saw the same people in a car passing by him (still in the neighborhhood) and one of the men was in the backseat with the woman and she seemed to be leaning forward. This witness is still alive today wand was interviewed in the book. He remembers the night clearly and wishes he would have thought more about what he had seen but of course didn't think much of it until he had heard the next day about Evelyn vanishing.

Marilynilpa
10-24-2005, 02:20 PM
Actually, Evelyn was only 125 pounds and stood at 5 feet 7 inches. I think the sizes were different then. A size 16 wasn't the same as today's size 16. It sounds to me she was tall and slim. I have seen full length pictures of her in the high school yearbooks (copies obtained from LaCrosse Library) and she appears slim.

About how dark it was, I was just emailing back and forth the other day with the LaCrosse Library and asking what the weather was like that day, time of sunset etc. The newspaper from that day states the evening was fair skies, and a low of 37 degrees. Wisconsin didn't observe daylight savings time until 1957, so the sun set at approx. 4:48pm. So, it must have been quite dark at 7-7:30pm, except there was a full moon that night.

There were not any streetlights yet, as the neighborhood was still so new.
Thanks so much for that information. I figured there probably were no streetlights in this new neighborhood. Without many trees, however, the full moon probably made it light enough to see where you were going.

I didn't realize that sizes were different in Evelyn's day, I appreciate you pointing that out to me.

So Evelyn was pretty tall for a 15 year old girl. I wonder if someone watching her might have thought she was older?

It's just hard to figure out how/why she was targeted. Was there any investigation of the family she was babysitting for? I wonder if someone might have had some grudge against them.

docwho3
10-24-2005, 02:26 PM
Good resource page!
This leads to actual pictures of the newspaper reports of the day.
If you magnify these you can actually read the reports of the time.
I found this very helpful.
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/hartley.htm


Also,since someone mentioned ED Gein, I found s site about Ed Geines that mentions that although it was '57 before the law officially knew much about him they are sure his first victem(that they know of) was in '51 or '52 or maybe as early as '47
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/gein/vanish_4.html

Also since there was some speculation about the shoe print showing possible link to a whizzer motorbike here is some links about the bike
Whizzer bike current pic:
http://www.extreme-scooters.com/whizzerindex.htm
Whizzer website
http://www.geocities.com/whizzer_17044/main.html
New AND old whizzer pics
http://www.geocities.com/whizzer_17044/images/

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 02:45 PM
Evelyn's case file on The Charley Project:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hartley_evelyn.html

For those of you interested in this case I again highly recommend the new book "Where's Evelyn?". It is a self published book and can be bought by contacting Susan Hessel (author) at shessel3248@charter.net

It includes a chapter about some new clues that have come to light in the past few years. Law Enforcement has investigated these new clues but are so backed up with currect cases that Evelyn's cold case is on the backburner which is frustrating. The new clues are basically a tape recording that has come to light of some men talking in a bar in 1968 and one of the men(now deceased) is practically admitting he was involved in Evelyn's disappearance and that she is buried in such and such a location near LaFarge, Wi. I'm not sure if that exact location is known though. The book mentions that even if the location is someday found, there is no guarantee Evelyn is still there. Due to passage of time, the fact that she may not have been buried very deep and what animals can do, and the fact that the area has had flood problems though the years. I do hope if they ever find the location, maybe something will still be there and they can identify her. The idea of her still being alive and suffering from amnesia has been discussed, but is highly unlikely. It is sadly believed who ever took her that night murdered her and disposed of her body somewhere in the wilderness.

The LaCrosse Tribune website has several recent articles on this case. if you go their site just put Evelyn Hartley in the archive search and many of these articles will come up, including one about this tape recorder "confession".

Marilynilpa
10-24-2005, 02:53 PM
Thanks joellegirl and docwho3 for the links.

The Crime Library mentions that Ed Gein may have killed Evelyn, but I agree with other posters on this thread - it just doesn't seem likely.

I have a question that someone might be able to answer - had Evelyn ever babysat for the family in that house before? I wonder how she was referred to them.

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 03:09 PM
Thanks joellegirl and docwho3 for the links.

The Crime Library mentions that Ed Gein may have killed Evelyn, but I agree with other posters on this thread - it just doesn't seem likely.

I have a question that someone might be able to answer - had Evelyn ever babysat for the family in that house before? I wonder how she was referred to them.

Yes,it is believed Evelyn had babysat for them once before, in the summer of 1953. I can't remember where I read this (I think in the new book) so I'm not 100 percent sure.

Evelyn's father, Richard Hartley, and the family she was babysitting for, the Viggo Rasmusens, knew each other as both men were professors at the University of LaCrosse. The Rasmusens were at the homecoming game with
their 7 year old daughter, while leaving Evelyn in charge of their
20 month old daughter.

Whenever something tragic happens to someone, we always here how wonderful and perfect they were that we often think all these people couldn't have been so nice. But in Evelyn's case is appears true. She was an honor student, daughter of a professor, third of four children in a respectable family. She was involved in many activities in school, yet was quiet and a bit shy, yet dependable and mature. She played the piano, liked sports. She had some close friends, one who was interviewed for the book. This best friend still gets emotional when thinking of what happened to her friend.

So I don't think Evelyn had some dark side that led to her abduction. She did not appear to be some wild girl with lots of boyfriends. Just your typical straight A girl with glasses, who was nice yet kind of shy, but very involved in her high school experience.

No one could think of anything bad to say about her.

Marilynilpa
10-24-2005, 03:21 PM
Yes,it is believed Evelyn had babysat for them once before, in the summer of 1953. I can't remember where I read this (I think in the new book) so I'm not 100 percent sure.

Evelyn's father, Richard Hartley, and the family she was babysitting for, the Viggo Rasmusens, knew each other as both men were professors at the University of LaCrosse. The Rasmusens were at the homecoming game with
their 7 year old daughter, while leaving Evelyn in charge of their
20 month old daughter.

Whenever something tragic happens to someone, we always here how wonderful and perfect they were that we often think all these people couldn't have been so nice. But in Evelyn's case is appears true. She was an honor student, daughter of a professor, third of four children in a respectable family. She was involved in many activities in school, yet was quiet and a bit shy, yet dependable and mature. She played the piano, liked sports. She had some close friends, one who was interviewed for the book. This best friend still gets emotional when thinking of what happened to her friend.

So I don't think Evelyn had some dark side that led to her abduction. She did not appear to be some wild girl with lots of boyfriends. Just your typical straight A girl with glasses, who was nice yet kind of shy, but very involved in her high school experience.

No one could think of anything bad to say about her.
I certainly never thought there was a dark side to Evelyn that caused her to become a victim. It doesn't sound like she was the type of person to associate with any "unsavory" characters.

I wish I could figure out why they brought her out through the basement window instead of the front door. There has to be a good reason, as the basement window exit would have been much more difficult than exiting through the front door to their waiting car.

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 03:31 PM
I certainly never thought there was a dark side to Evelyn that caused her to become a victim. It doesn't sound like she was the type of person to associate with any "unsavory" characters.

I wish I could figure out why they brought her out through the basement window instead of the front door. There has to be a good reason, as the basement window exit would have been much more difficult than exiting through the front door to their waiting car.

Oh, I know you weren't thinking of a dark side. I was just mentioning it as it has come up before wondering if she had some boyfriend over etc(not that that is a bad thing usually).

I added to one of my earlier posts(where I was describing her height and weight) and I mentioned how the book has scenerios about why she may have beem taken out of the house in a way different from the basement window. I guess the window theory is mainly because one of her shoes was found in the basement, and her blood was outside on the ground,and of course the window was opened and all the other windows and doors locked.

I agree it does not make sense to exit through the basement window. There must be more to it that we may never know.

Marilynilpa
10-24-2005, 03:40 PM
Oh, I know you weren't thinking of a dark side. I was just mentioning it as it has come up before wondering if she had some boyfriend over etc(not that that is a bad thing usually).

I added to one of my earlier posts(where I was describing her height and weight) and I mentioned how the book has scenerios about why she may have beem taken out of the house in a way different from the basement window. I guess the window theory is mainly because one of her shoes was found in the basement, and her blood was outside on the ground,and of course the window was opened and all the other windows and doors locked.

I agree it does not make sense to exit through the basement window. There must be more to it that we may never know.
I'm going to order that book when I get some "spare" money, it sounds interesting.

The other theories for how Evelyn wound up outside the house are feasible. Do you know if the doors in that house locked automatically when they were closed? If they did, then it's possible that Evelyn ran outside and the door locked behind her. If they didn't, then I don't see how the door became locked.

It sounds like the man driving by at 7:15 actually saw the abduction taking place. Certainly if these were people innocently helping an intoxicated friend, they would have come forward after the news of Evelyn's disappearance became known.

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 03:58 PM
I'm not sure if anyone knows what the doors were like. I would think there should be something in the police files as they usually investigate all the little details. I doubt the doors did that though, unless it was a freak thing or the abductors stopped to lock the door on their way out which is unlikely.


I agree, I think the man driving by did see Evelyn being abducted.

I guess you could call this my top "cold case" as it is the first one I learned about way back when I was around 11-12 years old. My father was growing up in LaCrosse at the time it happened and I learned about the case from him and my grandmother both who, like most LaCrosse residents who were there at the time, remember the aftermath very well. This is why we are in LaCrosse once or twice a year, visiting family. I always take the time to drive by that house. It just looks so normal. Hard to believe what occured there. Of course that is how it is with all the cases we discuss here-scary things happening in places that seem so normal and safe.

Cases that are a close 2nd with me are the Lyons sisters,Beverly Potts, Janice Pockett...

I am surprised that the La Crosse Tribune makes no mention of the case in today's paper.. Maybe it is because they just did an article in August when Evelyn's graduating class had it's 50th reunion and about the book coming up.

Her abduction has become a part of LaCrosse lore and legend, with just about everone knowing about the case, even if they weren't around then. And the ones who were there remember what they were doing and how it affects them to this day.

docwho3
10-24-2005, 04:29 PM
I only included the ED G. stuff in case it would be helpful & it was reported that he had a young sometime helper in grave digging (although no one ever proved he helped in snatching victems) but unless it is reported that he had a whizzer I won't think much about it for now.

I still lean towards a botched burglary attempt myself based on the following thoughts so far:
When I asked myself why pick that house the answer was sort of so obvious that I almost missed it. She was baby sitting . . . and that means there was probably not a car there. It was a sign that probably no one was home if the time was after normal work hours. So without knowing the family's habits well (which means they hadn't been stalked and watched much if any) the perp/s got in through an unlatched basement window.

Lets say she heard something in the basement and went down to see what it was,surprising the thief. Maybe she tried to confront him or maybe she just began to scream or maybe she turned around to run back upstairs but it startled him so he hits her with the tool he is carrying, maybe a knife handle or maybe a screw driver or crowbar. But now he's in real trouble because he has harmed a young woman in commission of a crime and anyone else might come on the scene soon. He can't let her live because she could ID him. If he kills her & leaves a body they will know a murder has been committed & will never stop searching and the murder scene itself might leave enough clues behind to trace back to him/them so she must be killed elsewhere where no one knows to look. So he takes her with him/them & they leave without taking anything because they are panicked and feel an overwhelming desire to just get away (before being seen by anyone else) and make the best of an awful situation. Its possible that she either came to again outside and had to be struck again or she struggled once she was outside in an attempt to get away which might account for more blood being there.

I still am thinking burglary so far. But I am always willing to revise that if more evidence proves otherwise. Not sure yet what to make of the tape recording mentioned in another post I saw.

Marilynilpa
10-24-2005, 04:47 PM
I only included the ED G. stuff in case it would be helpful & it was reported that he had a young sometime helper in grave digging (although no one ever proved he helped in snatching victems) but unless it is reported that he had a whizzer I won't think much about it for now.

I still lean towards a botched burglary attempt myself based on the following thoughts so far:
When I asked myself why pick that house the answer was sort of so obvious that I almost missed it. She was baby sitting . . . and that means there was probably not a car there. It was a sign that probably no one was home if the time was after normal work hours. So without knowing the family's habits well (which means they hadn't been stalked and watched much if any) the perp/s got in through an unlatched basement window.

Lets say she heard something in the basement and went down to see what it was,surprising the thief. Maybe she tried to confront him or maybe she just began to scream or maybe she turned around to run back upstairs but it startled him so he hits her with the tool he is carrying, maybe a knife handle or maybe a screw driver or crowbar. But now he's in real trouble because he has harmed a young woman in commission of a crime and anyone else might come on the scene soon. He can't let her live because she could ID him. If he kills her & leaves a body they will know a murder has been committed & will never stop searching and the murder scene itself might leave enough clues behind to trace back to him/them so she must be killed elsewhere where no one knows to look. So he takes her with him/them & they leave without taking anything because they are panicked and feel an overwhelming desire to just get away (before being seen by anyone else) and make the best of an awful situation. Its possible that she either came to again outside and had to be struck again or she struggled once she was outside in an attempt to get away which might account for more blood being there.

I still am thinking burglary so far. But I am always willing to revise that if more evidence proves otherwise. Not sure yet what to make of the tape recording mentioned in another post I saw.
I was thinking it might be a botched burglary, as well. But then when I read more about it, I'm not so sure. Although there was no car at the house, there must have been lights on inside, which makes me think a burglar would leave that house alone and go for one that was dark.

On the other hand, if someone specifically targeted Evelyn, it seems they could have abducted her off the street, since it appears they had a car. Why wait until she is inside the house, then climb in through a basement window to get her?

There are so many questions, and so few answers, to this mystery.

joellegirl
10-24-2005, 04:55 PM
I only included the ED G. stuff in case it would be helpful & it was reported that he had a young sometime helper in grave digging (although no one ever proved he helped in snatching victems) but unless it is reported that he had a whizzer I won't think much about it for now.

I still lean towards a botched burglary attempt myself based on the following thoughts so far:
When I asked myself why pick that house the answer was sort of so obvious that I almost missed it. She was baby sitting . . . and that means there was probably not a car there. It was a sign that probably no one was home if the time was after normal work hours. So without knowing the family's habits well (which means they hadn't been stalked and watched much if any) the perp/s got in through an unlatched basement window.

Lets say she heard something in the basement and went down to see what it was,surprising the thief. Maybe she tried to confront him or maybe she just began to scream or maybe she turned around to run back upstairs but it startled him so he hits her with the tool he is carrying, maybe a knife handle or maybe a screw driver or crowbar. But now he's in real trouble because he has harmed a young woman in commission of a crime and anyone else might come on the scene soon. He can't let her live because she could ID him. If he kills her & leaves a body they will know a murder has been committed & will never stop searching and the murder scene itself might leave enough clues behind to trace back to him/them so she must be killed elsewhere where no one knows to look. So he takes her with him/them & they leave without taking anything because they are panicked and feel an overwhelming desire to just get away (before being seen by anyone else) and make the best of an awful situation. Its possible that she either came to again outside and had to be struck again or she struggled once she was outside in an attempt to get away which might account for more blood being there.

I still am thinking burglary so far. But I am always willing to revise that if more evidence proves otherwise. Not sure yet what to make of the tape recording mentioned in another post I saw.

Very interesting on the burglary scenerio.

I just wanted to mention that it appears one of the struggles happened in the livingroom, as that is where Evelyn's other shoe, eyeglasses, and drops of blood were found on the the carpet.. I read in the book (which has crime scene pictures, including the shoe , blood and glasses on floor) that her school books were strewn (sp?) sbout as well. Because of this it has been always thought the abductors surprised her in the livingroom,after having crept up the basement stairs. She may have run into the basement (or was dragged down there) and that is another reason how her other shoe ended up at the foot of the basement stairs. There was also a step ladder up against the basement window (on the inside) that was most likely placed by the abductors to aid in getting out. The homeowners said the ladder was in the basement for painting. I can see how this may have been a burglary gone wrong that escalated into murder, but it still seems to me somebody was on the prowl that night for a young girl.

I also wanted to mention that the lights were on in the house and Evelyn had turned the radio on, so it was obvious some one was home. When the Rasmusens left the baby was already in bed and Evelyn supposedly sat down in the livingroom, turned on the radio and began to study.When Evelyn's father came to check on her(because he was worried she hadn't phoned home to let her parents know all was well as she usually did) he found all the lights still on and the radio still playing.

docwho3
10-24-2005, 05:53 PM
Very interesting on the burglary scenerio.

I just wanted to mention that it appears one of the struggles happened in the livingroom, as that is where Evelyn's other shoe, eyeglasses, and drops of blood were found on the the carpet.. I read in the book (which has crime scene pictures, including the shoe , blood and glasses on floor) that her school books were strewn (sp?) sbout as well. Because of this it has been always thought the abductors surprised her in the livingroom,after having crept up the basement stairs. She may have run into the basement (or was dragged down there) and that is another reason how her other shoe ended up at the foot of the basement stairs. There was also a step ladder up against the basement window (on the inside) that was most likely placed by the abductors to aid in getting out. The homeowners said the ladder was in the basement for painting. I can see how this may have been a burglary gone wrong that escalated into murder, but it still seems to me somebody was on the prowl that night for a young girl. . . .
Interesting points. Thanks for the extra info. Ok I can see it being a burglary that escalated. I realize that a burglar might also not mind doing worse in some cases. After all they aren't exactly nice people or they wouldn't be stealing.

. . . .I also wanted to mention that the lights were on in the house and Evelyn had turned the radio on, so it was obvious some one was home. When the Rasmusens left the baby was already in bed and Evelyn supposedly sat down in the livingroom, turned on the radio and began to study.When Evelyn's father came to check on her(because he was worried she hadn't phoned home to let her parents know all was well as she usually did) he found all the lights still on and the radio still playing.
Many people leave the lights on and either a radio or TV on today, & probably did then too, to make it appear someone is home. I figure burglars must pretty mush discount that if they don't see activity at the windows. If she was studying quietly maybe they didn't realize someone was there. They may not have even bothered creeping upstairs. He/They may have just clomped around precipitating an encounter (whether upsatairs or down) much to his/their chagrin. Those details may not be as important though as the overall theory.

If it was a burglary gone bad then looking for a burglar changes the search, in that you look for burglars more than out & out violent types. I guess I mean that I wonder if looking for a specific type of perp might have blinded the eyes of some investigators a little & caused them to not dig as deep into some people as they did into others.

I will mention this question also in case you or someone else might have a possible answer: Why go out the basement window? Unless maybe there was some landscape bush or other thing that might have screened their movements in exiting? It would seem to be much more difficult and if seen people would automatically know they were not honest coming out of the basement window.

joellegirl
10-25-2005, 10:44 AM
Docwho3,
Marilynilpa and I were discussing the basement window a few posts up.

No one knows for sure how the abductors took Evelyn out of the house but it has always been assumed the basement window because

1) It was the only window open(doors locked) and appeared to be the point of entry.

2)One of Evelyn's shoes was found at the foot of the basement stairs (book has a picture of this, along with other crime scene pictures). It looks like they had dragged her down the stairs .

3) A step ladder had been placed against the window(on the inside)

4)Pools of her blood we found outside this basement window. Investigators believe one man pushed her out of the window, while another was waiting outside to grab her and must have hurt her quite badly at this point to silence her. Neighbors did hear screams around 7:15pm but unfortunatley didn't think anything about them other than maybe it were children playing (usually young children aren't out playing after dark on a cool October night, maybe they were thinking teenagers...). Some neighbors recalled looking outside at that point but they didn't see anything.

Other scenerios have been discussed but it is just one of the many parts of this mystery that we may never know, unless some one comes forward who knows what happened that night.

From the pictures I have seen of the house taken right after all this happened, there were no bushes planted near that window. It was all very wide open, several new homes with no trees , streets weren't paved yet.

docwho3
10-25-2005, 04:02 PM
Yes, I had read the posts & mentioned the point again just in case someone had more info or thoughts on it other than those already mentioned.

Before reading on please note that I intend the following only as constructive discussion to be helpful & not meaning to flame anyone. Actually I am very impressed with the intelligence of those posting here. Keep up the good work.

If it can be established that the basement window was chosen as point of egress then it sort of says something about the thinking of the perp/s and it would almost certainly point to there being more than one person being involved. One man might manage to carry or force a young woman out the door of the house but I can't easily concieve of how one peron gets a young woman out a basement window. Even if she was dead already getting her out of a basement window using only one person would be very difficult without help. Two people makes the job doable.

But again, why leave that way?
Even with 2 people involved why not take her out the door of the house?
Unless the window they left from comes out on a side of the house where they could not be seen leaving its extremely stupid to do so much extra work especially for someone who should be in a hurry to leave before being seen.

Were these 2 the most stupid criminals in the past 50 plus years & yet managed to not get caught anyway?
Or -
Were the two dressed in some way that would look as if they belonged messing around the basement windows but would look suspicious if they were seen coming out of the house by the door? Landscaping maybe? Home Inspectors of some sort? Plumbers? Handymen of some sort? (Note:Not meaning to suggest this because I dont think it likely but just to point out a possible connection point:Ed Gein had worked as a handy man quite a bit & so knew how to dress the part. Its not my theory but I felt that to ignore the possibility just because I don't like it would not be right either so I mention it for what its worth.)

If so they might have taken her out in plain sight, perhaps wrapped up in something or maybe not but they pulled it off.

Now after taking the victem out of the house and to a waiting vehicle they could, if they lived out in the country have just taken her out to their land & buried her. End of story.

Or, since it was a new neighborhood, if they actually were plumbers or something like that where they might have an ongoing dig to lay pipe or some similar thing then they might have disposed of the body there & just filled in the dirt with no one ever finding the body unless the pipe needed repaired and that might not happen in their life time.

2 men:Two men ( I think it was reported as 2 but don't remember) were allegedly seen supporting a woman to a car and as much as I would love to have this report prove true I have some doubts even if I don't totally discount it. I remember previous posts mentioning a couple men that had been seen helping a woman to a car. After all this time I think its odd that person had not brought this to police (not meaning to attack anyone by sayng that but just trying to piece these things together) but even if I accept it as true then I have to think that the report of the 2 men & a woman must have been what stuck in the memory and not particularly how they were dressed. Knowing that eyewitness accounts are often wrong in many details especially after so much time has elapsed I am prepared to view the account of the 2 men escorting a woman to a car with the idea in mind that many parts may be misremembered or forgotten as other parts were dwelled upon.

In any case it was the why of the egress point that seemed to wave a flag to be looked at so I asked more about it.

Sorry for being so long winded about it. And who knows, I might be just over analyzing things.

The posts I have seen so far are very good. Keep digging.




Docwho3,
Marilynilpa and I were discussing the basement window a few posts up.

No one knows for sure how the abductors took Evelyn out of the house but it has always been assumed the basement window because

1) It was the only window open(doors locked) and appeared to be the point of entry.

2)One of Evelyn's shoes was found at the foot of the basement stairs (book has a picture of this, along with other crime scene pictures). It looks like they had dragged her down the stairs .

3) A step ladder had been placed against the window(on the inside)

4)Pools of her blood we found outside this basement window. Investigators believe one man pushed her out of the window, while another was waiting outside to grab her and must have hurt her quite badly at this point to silence her. Neighbors did hear screams around 7:15pm but unfortunatley didn't think anything about them other than maybe it were children playing (usually young children aren't out playing after dark on a cool October night, maybe they were thinking teenagers...). Some neighbors recalled looking outside at that point but they didn't see anything.

Other scenerios have been discussed but it is just one of the many parts of this mystery that we may never know, unless some one comes forward who knows what happened that night.

From the pictures I have seen of the house taken right after all this happened, there were no bushes planted near that window. It was all very wide open, several new homes with no trees , streets weren't paved yet.

docwho3
10-25-2005, 04:19 PM
One more thing actually occured to me about why burglars would choose not to burgle somethng from the house that night. If you had been seen(by the victem) & had decided the person had to be removed & murdered so the body not be found and therefore tied to you then taking anything from the house that didn't already belong to you would connect you to the disappearance & that could be enough to get you convicted of murder even without a body in some states.
(I recently read where someone was convicted of murder based on pictures that they had taken of the victem even though a body was never found.)

Probably the police would start watching fences & such looking for stolen items to pop up if things were taken from the house & it would certainly make them even more likely to look for a burglar above all others. Thats the last thing a pro burglar needs. And if they had taken things but then could not risk selling them and could not afford to be caught with those items to point to connection to a young woman disappearing then there is no point.

Marilynilpa
10-25-2005, 04:34 PM
Yes, I had read the posts & mentioned the point again just in case someone had more info or thoughts on it other than those already mentioned.

Before reading on please note that I intend the following only as constructive discussion to be helpful & not meaning to flame anyone. Actually I am very impressed with the intelligence of those posting here. Keep up the good work.

If it can be established that the basement window was chosen as point of egress then it sort of says something about the thinking of the perp/s and it would almost certainly point to there being more than one person being involved. One man might manage to carry or force a young woman out the door of the house but I can't easily concieve of how one peron gets a young woman out a basement window. Even if she was dead already getting her out of a basement window using only one person would be very difficult without help. Two people makes the job doable.

But again, why leave that way?
Even with 2 people involved why not take her out the door of the house?
Unless the window they left from comes out on a side of the house where they could not be seen leaving its extremely stupid to do so much extra work especially for someone who should be in a hurry to leave before being seen.

Were these 2 the most stupid criminals in the past 50 plus years & yet managed to not get caught anyway?
Or -
Were the two dressed in some way that would look as if they belonged messing around the basement windows but would look suspicious if they were seen coming out of the house by the door? Landscaping maybe? Home Inspectors of some sort? Plumbers? Handymen of some sort? (Note:Not meaning to suggest this because I dont think it likely but just to point out a possible connection point:Ed Gein had worked as a handy man quite a bit & so knew how to dress the part. Its not my theory but I felt that to ignore the possibility just because I don't like it would not be right either so I mention it for what its worth.)

If so they might have taken her out in plain sight, perhaps wrapped up in something or maybe not but they pulled it off.

Now after taking the victem out of the house and to a waiting vehicle they could, if they lived out in the country have just taken her out to their land & buried her. End of story.

Or, since it was a new neighborhood, if they actually were plumbers or something like that where they might have an ongoing dig to lay pipe or some similar thing then they might have disposed of the body there & just filled in the dirt with no one ever finding the body unless the pipe needed repaired and that might not happen in their life time.

2 men:Two men ( I think it was reported as 2 but don't remember) were allegedly seen supporting a woman to a car and as much as I would love to have this report prove true I have some doubts even if I don't totally discount it. I remember previous posts mentioning a couple men that had been seen helping a woman to a car. After all this time I think its odd that person had not brought this to police (not meaning to attack anyone by sayng that but just trying to piece these things together) but even if I accept it as true then I have to think that the report of the 2 men & a woman must have been what stuck in the memory and not particularly how they were dressed. Knowing that eyewitness accounts are often wrong in many details especially after so much time has elapsed I am prepared to view the account of the 2 men escorting a woman to a car with the idea in mind that many parts may be misremembered or forgotten as other parts were dwelled upon.

In any case it was the why of the egress point that seemed to wave a flag to be looked at so I asked more about it.

Sorry for being so long winded about it. And who knows, I might be just over analyzing things.

The posts I have seen so far are very good. Keep digging.
I totally agree that going out the basement window was probably the least effective way of getting Evelyn out of that house. It just makes no sense. The only scenario in which using the basement window is logical is this - Evelyn heard something, went down to investigate, the burglars (assuming that's what they were there for) panicked and hit her with something. In that case, the basement window makes sense, because why would they want to drag her upstairs and out the door? But this scenario isn't backed up by the evidence - Evelyn's broken glasses and one shoe are upstairs in the house, so it appears she struggled with someone up there.

I suppose it's possible that, after struggling with the burglars, breaking her glasses and losing a shoe, Evelyn ran down into the basement to get away from them. But I doubt she would do that, when she could have run out the front door and screamed for help. And if Evelyn was anything like me, she probably couldn't see too well without her glasses, so she wouldn't want to run down the basement stairs without them.

One other possibility - the burglars hear something that startles them. Maybe a car drives by and they panic, thinking the homeowners are returning. They don't want to be seen going out the door, so they hightail it down to the basement, with Evelyn in tow. One of them climbs out, Evelyn is pushed/pulled through the window, the other one climbs out and they walk to their car.

Three possible scenarios, none of which make a whole lot of sense!

Additionally, I think two men, regardless of how they were dressed, would look suspicious hanging around a basement window at night. Since there were no streetlights, I suppose they could have stayed in the shadows. But what about the evidence that someone tried to pry open a bedroom window before going to the basement window? Did these guys just wander willy-nilly around the house without worrying about being seen?

As far as someone seeing two man with an apparently intoxicated woman, I wonder if this "eyewitness" might be embellishing things a bit (I don't want to accuse the guy of lying!). People tend to "remember" things after the fact that may or may not actually have occurred.

There are an awful lot of unanswered questions.

joellegirl
10-25-2005, 04:42 PM
I have to run, my kids are home from school, but I wanted to mention that the witness who saw the two men supporting a woman around 7:15 that Saturday night did go to police on Monday, October 26 . He went to work and heard about Evelyn vanishing and realized what he saw may be connected. He was interviewed by detectives right away and did talk with Evelyn's parents. The spot he saw them was between the Rasmusen home and the house where the blood trail ended at the street. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post about him.I mentioned he still remembered it clearly, but he did indeed go to police at the time, as soon as he heard about Evelyn. Looking back he wishes at the exact time he saw them he had done something but not knowing it was an abduction in progress, he didn't as it just seemed they had been partying. He is still alive and is interviewed in the book.

joellegirl
10-25-2005, 05:26 PM
Docwho3-actually the window in question is on the side of the house. The thing is though, from an aerial picture taken at the time(in the book), it looks like the next several lots on that side were empty, so it was wide open. With the full moon, it may have been quite bright since there were no trees.

docwho3
10-26-2005, 02:24 AM
Docwho3-actually the window in question is on the side of the house. The thing is though, from an aerial picture taken at the time(in the book), it looks like the next several lots on that side were empty, so it was wide open. With the full moon, it may have been quite bright since there were no trees.
I realized that I had missed reading some of the available news articles thinking they were duplicates so I went back to read.
I am researching as I write so this may ramble somewhat:
(Feel free to correct me where I am wrong as the corrections may help other readers too.)

Point about the time involved :Was it at complete night moonlit or not?:
I just reread one othe news articles where the sleeping toddler, who is now grown of course, had this to say:"It was sort of dusk,and I was one of those kids - they'd put me to bed,I'd get up,upand down,up and down, just play my little games and wouldn't settle down,. . ." "This had to be one of the few nights that I went to bed and went to sleep. . . ."
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/images/hartley/00150015.jpg

Hmmm. . .That happened in October so I would think if it happend at 7:15 pm as one report about a scream seemed to indicate that would indeed be way past dark. Unless you know that "From 1945 to 1966, there was no federal law about Daylight Saving Time. So states and localities were free to choose whether to observe Daylight Saving Time and could choose when it began and ended."- source link (http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/e.html)
That seems to make it at least possible this crime was committed at, or shortly after, dusk which I find even more interesting. Notable fact:This crime was done on the night of the Lacrosse state Homecoming football game.
It seems probable that this night might have been planned in advance with the thought that most people would be gone to the game. That sort of lets out the "transient" perp theory to my thinking.

I understand that she might not have a good memory of the time but it raises a question which I mean to pose as diplomatically as possible: Although it's wonderful to have a book to help provide info, have you been able to independently confirm the facts in the book?

In the news paper article I read online it mentioned that police were checking on some blood stains on a nearby house or building. Where was this house? The picture seemed to show 2 houses very close to each other or maybe it was a house & separate garage. This is what made me wonder if the window they left through was perhaps near another house or building that would have allowed a hidden exit for them.
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/images/hartley/00010001.jpg

"Side of the house" - the book said?
Is that maybe the back of the house and not the "side" of the house?
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/images/hartley/00130013p.jpg

Again, I just now read where window used was at the back: " He tried to enter the house, but all the doors and windows were locked. Except for one -- the back basement window. " (I added the bolding to the word.)
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/gein/vanish_4.html

Trying to get this staright in my head:
Ok, so if the perps knew of the upcoming game in order to plan a crime (burglary or worse), unless it was all coincidence that it was that particualr night,and one of them had a shoe with a circular wear pattern that might indicate a whizzer rider this seems to point towards someone who lived in the area & not a passing stranger with no knowledge of the area. I saw the old catalog prices on some whizzers and they seemed to be expensive for that day and age so this would seem not be a poor mans toy. Another thought:I wonder if fuel powered combustion engine model airplanes which were in use then (www.aeromaniacs.com/historyofcl.htm) as the ones with the wire controls would require a person stand in one place & to rotate and might possibly cause a circular wear pattern in a shoe.

So do we have a rich mans son with some clout to stay out of trouble and an older accomplice? I read on of those news report images where it said they "checked out the whizzer riders but found no worthwhile suspects". Note they didn't say there were no suspects to be found but just none that were considered worthwhile. Maybe who he was kept him from being "worthwhile"? Or maybe they should have looked at model airplane enthusiasts.
Don't know how that idea would ever be checked out.

Oh well

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 09:05 AM
I have to run, my kids are home from school, but I wanted to mention that the witness who saw the two men supporting a woman around 7:15 that Saturday night did go to police on Monday, October 26 . He went to work and heard about Evelyn vanishing and realized what he saw may be connected. He was interviewed by detectives right away and did talk with Evelyn's parents. The spot he saw them was between the Rasmusen home and the house where the blood trail ended at the street. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post about him.I mentioned he still remembered it clearly, but he did indeed go to police at the time, as soon as he heard about Evelyn. Looking back he wishes at the exact time he saw them he had done something but not knowing it was an abduction in progress, he didn't as it just seemed they had been partying. He is still alive and is interviewed in the book.
Okay, I'm not trying to disparage this man or his testimony, but I have a question about it. Obviously Evelyn's disappearance was a BIG story. It happened on a Saturday evening, so there must have been television and radio coverage as early as Sunday morning. Yet this man hears nothing about it until he gets to work on Monday?

Also, it was mentioned in an earlier post that this man possibly saw Evelyn twice - once when he saw the two men supporting a woman, and again when he saw a car with one man driving and the other in the back seat with a woman. Sounds like the witness was out and about in the neighborhood quite a bit, to have seen both events that evening. In that case, it seems like he would have seen police cars at the scene the following day and figured that something had happened.

Maybe he did see what he claimed to have seen, but I wonder if LE took him seriously? I've read a couple of old newspaper articles about this case and don't remember any reference to an eyewitness possibly seeing the abduction in progress. I'll look through some more and see if I can find a reference to the eyewitness. If he isn't mentioned in any of the articles, I'd take that as a sign that LE didn't believe him to be credible.

If he actually did see this take place, that man must have felt awful knowing he could have possibly prevented the men from taking Evelyn away.

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 11:12 AM
Okay, I'm not trying to disparage this man or his testimony, but I have a question about it. Obviously Evelyn's disappearance was a BIG story. It happened on a Saturday evening, so there must have been television and radio coverage as early as Sunday morning. Yet this man hears nothing about it until he gets to work on Monday?

Also, it was mentioned in an earlier post that this man possibly saw Evelyn twice - once when he saw the two men supporting a woman, and again when he saw a car with one man driving and the other in the back seat with a woman. Sounds like the witness was out and about in the neighborhood quite a bit, to have seen both events that evening. In that case, it seems like he would have seen police cars at the scene the following day and figured that something had happened.

Maybe he did see what he claimed to have seen, but I wonder if LE took him seriously? I've read a couple of old newspaper articles about this case and don't remember any reference to an eyewitness possibly seeing the abduction in progress. I'll look through some more and see if I can find a reference to the eyewitness. If he isn't mentioned in any of the articles, I'd take that as a sign that LE didn't believe him to be credible.

If he actually did see this take place, that man must have felt awful knowing he could have possibly prevented the men from taking Evelyn away.

Back in 1953 there was no local tv station in LaCrosse, it came in 1954. By the time word got out about the missing babysitter it was around 10pm (police had been called sometime around 9:30pm) and most people did not hear about it until the next morning, unless they lived right there, happened upon it, saw the police searching,or heard by word of mouth that night.It was on the radio on Sunday, but who knows, maybe this man just didn't hear about it until Monday if he didn't have the radio on or was busy on Sunday.. don't know why his brother in law didn't call and tell him about it.I'm not sure about newspaper articles about what he saw but they most likely would have been in the LaCrosse Tribune, which I remember is not in Newspaper Archives. The Chicago Tribune was also very active in this case, and I don't recall seeing them in Newspaer Archives either. When i had my subscription, I never saw any articles from both Tribunes. Not all of the LaCrosseTribune articles on the Hartley are posted on the LaCrosse Library site. And there were ALOT. This man's identity was withheld by the police and he was known as Mr.X., Now 83 years old, his real name is in the book. I am only going by what I read in this book, and another book called "Getting Away with Murder" by Ed Baumann. I've always had the impression that the police did take this witness seriously, but I could be wrong.

The reason this man saw them twice was he was in the neighborhood picking up his brother -in-law to go to the homecoming game. He first saw the men and woman while on his way to pick up his brother-in-law. After he had picked him up and was heading out of the subdivision to the game is when he saw who he thought to be the same group in the car. I get the impression he did not live in this neighborhood, just his brother-in law. One interesting thing is when he dropped his brother-in law back home at what he thought was approx 9:45 he didin't notice any police around, yet they were already there.

It is all very confusing I agree.

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 11:38 AM
I realized that I had missed reading some of the available news articles thinking they were duplicates so I went back to read.
I am researching as I write so this may ramble somewhat:
(Feel free to correct me where I am wrong as the corrections may help other readers too.)

Point about the time involved :Was it at complete night moonlit or not?:
I just reread one othe news articles where the sleeping toddler, who is now grown of course, had this to say:"It was sort of dusk,and I was one of those kids - they'd put me to bed,I'd get up,upand down,up and down, just play my little games and wouldn't settle down,. . ." "This had to be one of the few nights that I went to bed and went to sleep. . . ."
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/images/hartley/00150015.jpg

Hmmm. . .That happened in October so I would think if it happend at 7:15 pm as one report about a scream seemed to indicate that would indeed be way past dark. Unless you know that "From 1945 to 1966, there was no federal law about Daylight Saving Time. So states and localities were free to choose whether to observe Daylight Saving Time and could choose when it began and ended."- source link (http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/e.html)
That seems to make it at least possible this crime was committed at, or shortly after, dusk which I find even more interesting. Notable fact:This crime was done on the night of the Lacrosse state Homecoming football game.
It seems probable that this night might have been planned in advance with the thought that most people would be gone to the game. That sort of lets out the "transient" perp theory to my thinking.

I understand that she might not have a good memory of the time but it raises a question which I mean to pose as diplomatically as possible: Although it's wonderful to have a book to help provide info, have you been able to independently confirm the facts in the book?

In the news paper article I read online it mentioned that police were checking on some blood stains on a nearby house or building. Where was this house? The picture seemed to show 2 houses very close to each other or maybe it was a house & separate garage. This is what made me wonder if the window they left through was perhaps near another house or building that would have allowed a hidden exit for them.
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/images/hartley/00010001.jpg

"Side of the house" - the book said?
Is that maybe the back of the house and not the "side" of the house?
http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/images/hartley/00130013p.jpg

Again, I just now read where window used was at the back: " He tried to enter the house, but all the doors and windows were locked. Except for one -- the back basement window. " (I added the bolding to the word.)
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/gein/vanish_4.html

Trying to get this staright in my head:
Ok, so if the perps knew of the upcoming game in order to plan a crime (burglary or worse), unless it was all coincidence that it was that particualr night,and one of them had a shoe with a circular wear pattern that might indicate a whizzer rider this seems to point towards someone who lived in the area & not a passing stranger with no knowledge of the area. I saw the old catalog prices on some whizzers and they seemed to be expensive for that day and age so this would seem not be a poor mans toy. Another thought:I wonder if fuel powered combustion engine model airplanes which were in use then (www.aeromaniacs.com/historyofcl.htm) as the ones with the wire controls would require a person stand in one place & to rotate and might possibly cause a circular wear pattern in a shoe.

So do we have a rich mans son with some clout to stay out of trouble and an older accomplice? I read on of those news report images where it said they "checked out the whizzer riders but found no worthwhile suspects". Note they didn't say there were no suspects to be found but just none that were considered worthwhile. Maybe who he was kept him from being "worthwhile"? Or maybe they should have looked at model airplane enthusiasts.
Don't know how that idea would ever be checked out.

Oh well

I was wondering about how dark it was at 7:15 as well as the surviving toddler mentioned (as an adult of course) that it was sort of dusk. I asked the LaCrosse Library, and they said Wisconsin didn't observe Daylight Savings Time until 1957, so on October 24, 1953, the sun set at approx 4:48pm. So it must have been quite dark at 7-7:15, except the light of the full moon, which isn't usually brighter until later in the night. It was early in the evening, but defintitely past dusk. Even with Daylight Savings Time, it is dark by 7pm on October 24, at least in Wisconsin .

The photos of the house and neighborhood in the book are police photos. I have seen the house myself as well. so I can see how the neighborhood is layed out-more homes now but the streets are the same. All the of the police photos identify the basement window on the south side of the house as the one that was open. You can still see this window from the street. Other pictures show that south of the house were several empty lots at that time. Some accounts of the case may have mistakes, like saying the window was in the back. But 99 percent of everything I have read puts the window on the side.

I have analyzed all the pictures myself and have concluded some of the newspaper pictures are showing neighboring houses, not the Rasmusen home. The one you linked to showing Evelyn's father I believe is the side of the Rasmusen house. The house that had the blood smear, which was behind the Rasmusen home, kind of kiddy-corner a few houses down. I wish i could draw a map on here, it would explain it better. If you get the book you will see copies of Tribune articles that aren't on that website(that has some of the articles reprinted) and there are several photos of the neighborhood and how it was layed out, and the supposed path that the abductors dragged Evelyn across the yards. Plus some of these newspaper articles are real grainy and hard to make out the pictures. I can see what looks like a neighboring house, but I think it could simply be the sky in the background.

I haven't done any independent investigation, I'm just going by what i have read in the book and newspapers. I believe the author had good sources for the book , from the LaCrosse Police files and LaCrosse library archives, as well as personal accounts of witnesses, and friends. When analyizing this case my head spins as so much is a mystery.

Richard
10-26-2005, 12:43 PM
...Trying to get this staright in my head:
Ok, so if the perps knew of the upcoming game in order to plan a crime (burglary or worse), unless it was all coincidence that it was that particualr night,and one of them had a shoe with a circular wear pattern that might indicate a whizzer rider this seems to point towards someone who lived in the area & not a passing stranger with no knowledge of the area. I saw the old catalog prices on some whizzers and they seemed to be expensive for that day and age so this would seem not be a poor mans toy. Another thought:I wonder if fuel powered combustion engine model airplanes which were in use then (http://www.aeromaniacs.com/historyofcl.htm) as the ones with the wire controls would require a person stand in one place & to rotate and might possibly cause a circular wear pattern in a shoe.

So do we have a rich mans son with some clout to stay out of trouble and an older accomplice? I read on of those news report images where it said they "checked out the whizzer riders but found no worthwhile suspects". Note they didn't say there were no suspects to be found but just none that were considered worthwhile. Maybe who he was kept him from being "worthwhile"? Or maybe they should have looked at model airplane enthusiasts.
Don't know how that idea would ever be checked out. Oh well
I cannot say for certain whether or not flying model airplanes had come into popularity by 1953. As a kid, I recall seeing them for the first time in the late 1950's. The Boy Scouts of America "Handbook for Boys", as well as their magazine "Boys Life" used to advertise those airplanes by 1960, but I looked in a 1951 copy "Handbook for Boys", and could not find any advertisements for them. There were numerous other advertisement pages for hiking shoes, rifles, bicycles, etc.

Having flown model planes, I don't recall having any circular wear patterns on my shoes. You normally would fly the planes on a soft grass field, to avoid hard crash landings, and because there just weren't very large blacktop or paved areas to fly in. Also, you go around by stepping, not by pivoting in place on your shoe.

I would think that maybe a motorcyclist who did "donuts" might wear down his shoes in a circular pattern, or maybe someone who operates some type of machinery with his foot might wear the shoe down in such a pattern. Some tractors and heavy equipment have accellorators or brakes which had metal "teeth". Perhaps a person who had a tendency to twist his foot on such a pedal might wear a circular pattern into it.

I have never heard the term Whizzer Rider. Is that some sort of bike?

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 12:50 PM
I have just spent the past two hours reading newspaper articles about this case. There are literally hundreds of articles about this case, so it will take a while to peruse them all.

I found a few things of interest, in no particular order (joellegirl, you may already know these since you've read a lot about this case!):

1. At no time did the police consider this to be a burglary gone wrong.

2. The police refer to this as a kidnapping after "a fierce struggle." They later say they believe she was kidnapped by a "sex maniac".

3. After five days, the police chief admitted they were up against a stone wall and desperate for clues!

4. There was a mass check of all cars in the city made by gas attendants and police on a voluntary basis. The interior and trunks were inspected for blood. The owner of the car would be given a sticker to place on the car that said "my car is OK".

5. 1700 male students and teachers from two public high schools, one Catholic high school, city vocational and adult education schools, and La Crosse State College were given lie detector tests.

6. The basement window only measured 14 inches.

7. The kidnapper's tennis shoes were eventually found tossed beside a highway. They were size 12 1/2, and identified as having been worn inside the house where Evelyn was babysitting. A bloodstained denim jacket was also found, along with bloodstained panties and bra, all Type A blood - same as Evelyn's.

8. Evelyn Hartley was not supposed to be babysitting that night - she was filling in for a friend who wanted to go to a football game.

There are a lot more interesting elements to this case, but I don't have time to list them all.

One thing that really seems odd - the tennis shoes are 12 1/2, implying they belonged to a pretty big fellow. How did he get in through a 14 inch window?

FYI, there is no mention in any of the articles about an eyewitness. I'm not disputing that this man exists, I just wonder why police didn't say "Joe Blow, driving past the house to pick up his brother-in-law, reported seeing two men supporting a woman, and later saw the same men in a car, one driving and one in the back seat with the woman." Curious.

shadowangel
10-26-2005, 12:53 PM
I have never heard the term Whizzer Rider. Is that some sort of bike?
I was curious about that too. Here is a pic I found:
http://www.whizzerbikes.com/whizzer2.html or
http://www.whizzerbikes.com/494735.html

I remember helping my Dad restore a neighbor's 1930 Model "A" Ford, it had circular pedal pads (unlike the rectangular found on newer cars...

shadowangel
10-26-2005, 12:58 PM
One thing that really seems odd - the tennis shoes are 12 1/2, implying they belonged to a pretty big fellow. How did he get in through a 14 inch window?


One of the articles from NewspaperArchive. com mentioned that some LE did not think the jacket and shoes belonged to the same person, since the jacket was a size 36 and seemed too small for someone wearing size 12 shoes.

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 01:09 PM
One of the articles from NewspaperArchive. com mentioned that some LE did not think the jacket and shoes belonged to the same person, since the jacket was a size 36 and seemed too small for someone wearing size 12 shoes.
That's right, which adds some credence to the thought that two men may have been involved in this crime. I just cannot see a man large enough to wear size 12 shoes being able to get into a 14" window.

Richard
10-26-2005, 01:19 PM
....
7. The kidnapper's tennis shoes were eventually found tossed beside a highway. They were size 12 1/2, and identified as having been worn inside the house where Evelyn was babysitting. A bloodstained denim jacket was also found, along with bloodstained panties and bra, all Type A blood - same as Evelyn's.

8. Evelyn Hartley was not supposed to be babysitting that night - she was filling in for a friend who wanted to go to a football game.
I wonder if the shoes and Jacket are still being held in an evidence locker somewhere. Perhaps DNA could be extracted from them today? Any fingerprints found on the shoes or in the house?

Was the blood ever checked for DNA matches to Evelyn's family?

The size of the shoes would indicate a rather large fellow, probably over 6 feet tall. Was the jacket size stated?

The locations of the shoes and other clothing would give a general direction of travel, and would possibly indicate that a furthur attack upon Evelyn took place between the house and the location of the clothing.

Was the other babysitter or her family interviewed regarding anyone fitting the possible description of Evelyn's abductor(s)?

From what I have read, it sounds to me like this crime was origionally planned as an abduction by one or two rather moronic individuals. If they were burglers, they certainly could have found a house easier to enter. If they had been watching the house for the occupants to leave, they certainly would have seen the babysitter arriving first. Likely, they thought they would break in easily and then go out the same way. What they didn't count on was Evelyn putting up such a fight.

They obviously did not cut the phone line in advance. They could have tied and gagged her, had they thought to bring rope or cloth with them. They obviously could have walked right out the front or rear door. But they were idiots, and you have to take the idiot factor into account.

There were no credible demands for ransom. And Evelyn has not turned up in the past 50 plus years. My feeling is that these guys killed her, disposed of her body, and drove away.

Were there any recently released sex criminals in the area? Were there any previous or subsequent reports of rapes or abductions, or home invasions in any other nearby towns?

What was the other school that was playing LaCrosse that night? Maybe these guys were in town for the game, but decided to go cruising instead, and one thing led to another. Was there much checking done in the other town? Was that town located in the direction indicated by the discarded bloodstained clothing and shoes?

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 01:39 PM
Now the jacket that was found that had blood stains has a whole story on it's own. Investigators at the time noticed wear marks on the back, and paint flecks scattered about. To make a long story short theycame up with the theory that one of Evelyn's abductors had been a steeplejack. That maybe he wore some kind of harness while swinging from a boatswain's chair to clean such things as water towers to prepare for painiting. This jacket went on tour to various surrounding towns to see if someone could identify. Today they realize that was not a good thing as lots of evidence may have been destroyed while this jacket toured the region. I believe it is in the Wisconsin crime lab in Madison today, or still at the LaCrosse police, not sure. Among the other evidence they still have, according to the book, I believe is hair rollers belonging to Evelyn, menstrual pads(it appears she was on her period, must have got these out of the garbage from her home-such a private thing to have among these items) and an exact replica of the outfit she wore that night-all for identifying purposes. Reason why they have the same clothes is she and her best friend had bought the exact same outfit for fun, and this friend gave her outfit to police in case it would help someday.

She still has a surviving brother and sister, but they have not responded to request from police to submit DNA samples. I believe they were requested after the new clues with the tape recorder came about, and a house(and surrounding property) that is mentioned in the recording may be fully
searched someday if Evelyn's case can get off the backburner.

As I mentioned earlier, investgators fear that even if they find where Evelyn is supposed to be buried, they are not sure, due to passage of time, animals, and floods have done to her remains. Hopefully something could be found.

About the Whizzer, the book has a picture of one and it looks like some kind of motorized bicycle-not quite a motorcycle but more snazzy than a bicycle. It cost $97.55 in 1948.

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 01:47 PM
LaCrosse State College(now University of Wisconsin at LaCrosse) was playing against rival River Falls State College that night. I'm assuming maybe from Black River Falls, Wi.

shadowangel
10-26-2005, 01:53 PM
She still has a surviving brother and sister, but they have not responded to request from police to submit DNA samples. I believe they were requested after the new clues with the tape recorder came about, and a house(and surrounding property) that is mentioned in the recording may be fully
searched someday if Evelyn's case can get off the backburner.


Sorry, I missed something....?

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 01:58 PM
Black River Falls is in the opposite direction of where the articles of clothing were found. I could be wrong about where River Falls college is/was. I'll have to look further. The evidence found along Hwy 14 is south of LaCrosse, in the direction of LaFarge, Wi where this tape recording mentions where Evelyn was taken. The man on this recording (the book has most of the transcript of this conversation, police had exact locations eliminated). From the transcript this man doesn't sound like the brightest of the bunch. I agree with with Richard that it appears one or two idiots ironically somehow pulled off one of our greatest mysteries, and still seem to have everyone guessing.

docwho3
10-26-2005, 02:04 PM
. . . . The reason this man saw them twice was he was in the neighborhood picking up his brother -in-law to go to the homecoming game. He first saw the men and woman while on his way to pick up his brother-in-law. After he had picked him up and was heading out of the subdivision to the game is when he saw who he thought to be the same group in the car. I get the impression he did not live in this neighborhood, just his brother-in law. One interesting thing is when he dropped his brother-in law back home at what he thought was approx 9:45 he didin't notice any police around, yet they were already there.

It is all very confusing I agree.
Just kicking around possibilities here:
The witness might well be telling the truth but just to be thorough I have to ask: What if he is not truthful? Could the story have just a couple of touches of truth in it? 1. That he and brother-in-law were there (incase they were seen by someone) and 2.that no police were around (because maybe none were around at the time they committed a crime.)

What is known about mr x who saw these things and his brother-in-law? And has the brother-in-law ever confirmed what was seen & maybe added his own description?

Something seems not right about that witness account. Possibly they either had involvement in the crime or (it doesn't have to be anything sinister) perhaps he was just wishing very strongly that he might have helped bring the girl home as did many residents. Only maybe he wished hard enough to "remember" seeing something odd and then go tell police. That sort of thing has happened before.

shadowangel
10-26-2005, 02:05 PM
So this was a tape-recorded interview/interrogation by the police? (Sorry, I'm a little slow today...)

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 02:06 PM
Sorry, I missed something....?

Sorry, shadowangel. I mentioned the tape recording in a much earlier post. Here is the link to the article in the LaCrosse Tribune:

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2004/01/11/news/02second.txt



A transcript of the conversation is in the book "Where's Evelyn?"

docwho3
10-26-2005, 02:14 PM
That's right, which adds some credence to the thought that two men may have been involved in this crime. I just cannot see a man large enough to wear size 12 shoes being able to get into a 14" window.
My son wore size 13's but was skinny as a toothpick as a teenager.
I am not familiar enough with coat sizes of the day to say he could have worn such an item but the window would have been doable for him I think. After all one account says the dad went in through the same window which puzzles me.

shadowangel
10-26-2005, 02:17 PM
Sorry, shadowangel. I mentioned the tape recording in a much earlier post. Here is the link to the article in the LaCrosse Tribune:

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2004/01/11/news/02second.txt



A transcript of the conversation is in the book "Where's Evelyn?"
Thanks, I understand now. :o

docwho3
10-26-2005, 02:28 PM
. . . About the Whizzer, the book has a picture of one and it looks like some kind of motorized bicycle-not quite a motorcycle but more snazzy than a bicycle. It cost $97.55 in 1948.By the 50's the price had gone to about double the '48 price according to the catalog I saw (if I remember correctly.)

I also posted some links to whizzer pics & info in an earlier post (for those readers who might not be aware of that.) And yes they were sold originally as a motor kit that was added to your own existing bicycle.

Whizzer info:
858219

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 02:29 PM
I wonder if the shoes and Jacket are still being held in an evidence locker somewhere. Perhaps DNA could be extracted from them today? Any fingerprints found on the shoes or in the house?

Was the blood ever checked for DNA matches to Evelyn's family?

The size of the shoes would indicate a rather large fellow, probably over 6 feet tall. Was the jacket size stated?

The locations of the shoes and other clothing would give a general direction of travel, and would possibly indicate that a furthur attack upon Evelyn took place between the house and the location of the clothing.

Was the other babysitter or her family interviewed regarding anyone fitting the possible description of Evelyn's abductor(s)?

From what I have read, it sounds to me like this crime was origionally planned as an abduction by one or two rather moronic individuals. If they were burglers, they certainly could have found a house easier to enter. If they had been watching the house for the occupants to leave, they certainly would have seen the babysitter arriving first. Likely, they thought they would break in easily and then go out the same way. What they didn't count on was Evelyn putting up such a fight.

They obviously did not cut the phone line in advance. They could have tied and gagged her, had they thought to bring rope or cloth with them. They obviously could have walked right out the front or rear door. But they were idiots, and you have to take the idiot factor into account.

There were no credible demands for ransom. And Evelyn has not turned up in the past 50 plus years. My feeling is that these guys killed her, disposed of her body, and drove away.

Were there any recently released sex criminals in the area? Were there any previous or subsequent reports of rapes or abductions, or home invasions in any other nearby towns?

What was the other school that was playing LaCrosse that night? Maybe these guys were in town for the game, but decided to go cruising instead, and one thing led to another. Was there much checking done in the other town? Was that town located in the direction indicated by the discarded bloodstained clothing and shoes?From I've read so far, there was very little blood in the house, most of it was outside by the basement window, and there was a bloody handprint on the side of the house next door. LE stated the blood pool was Type A blood, which was Evelyn's blood type. I've seen no mention of bloody footprints or fingerprints. However, when the size 12 1/2 tennis shoes were found, LE identified them as having been inside the Rasmusen home so there must have been some sort of shoe print left, although not necessarily a bloody print.

Regarding the jacket, it was a size 36, which I believe would be pretty small for fellow wearing size 12 1/2 shoes. The blood on it was Type A. Joellegirl mentioned in her post that LE at one time speculated a steeplejack might have worn the jacket. In 1961 LE questioned a steeplejack who reportedly talked about Evelyn. That was a dead end.

I saw no mention of the other babysitter or her family being interviewed. I only saw one mention of the other babysitter, in the article that said Evelyn was filling in for her. LE did not release the name of the other babysitter.

Regarding any released sexual criminals, one article mentioned that 35 to 40 sexual criminals were interviewed regarding Evelyn's disappearance. I found that number to be rather high, considering La Crosse at the time had a population of 50,000.

Evelyn's father requested and took a lie detector test shortly after her disappearance and apparently showed no deception. I don't know if any other people close to Evelyn took such a test.

One interesting thing to note: in Madison, Wisconsin around the same time as Evelyn's disappearance, someone entered a woman's home through the basement window, slugging her on the head with a blackjack. This took place in a newly developed housing area. A week later, another Madison woman was assaulted in the same way. I haven't had a chance to research the details of this, so I don't know exactly what transpired. I do know that a black man was arrested and had a lead pipe in the back of his car that had blood and hair on it. He claimed he had no idea how it got there. I'm going to see what else I can find out about that, but at the time, LE did not think this was connected to Evelyn's disappearance.

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 02:39 PM
My son wore size 13's but was skinny as a toothpick as a teenager.
I am not familiar enough with coat sizes of the day to say he could have worn such an item but the window would have been doable for him I think. After all one account says the dad went in through the same window which puzzles me.

It is puzzling I agree. That window must have been larger than 14 inches. I have seen it from the street but of course it looks small from that distance. It is true(accoding to everything I've read) that is how the father entered the house as well because he found all the other windows and doors locked.

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 02:39 PM
Just kicking around possibilities here:
The witness might well be telling the truth but just to be thorough I have to ask: What if he is not truthful? Could the story have just a couple of touches of truth in it? 1. That he and brother-in-law were there (incase they were seen by someone) and 2.that no police were around (because maybe none were around at the time they committed a crime.)

What is known about mr x who saw these things and his brother-in-law? And has the brother-in-law ever confirmed what was seen & maybe added his own description?

Something seems not right about that witness account. Possibly they either had involvement in the crime or (it doesn't have to be anything sinister) perhaps he was just wishing very strongly that he might have helped bring the girl home as did many residents. Only maybe he wished hard enough to "remember" seeing something odd and then go tell police. That sort of thing has happened before.
I tend to agree with you about this. It seems like this eyewitness would have been mentioned by the police, if only to establish the time the kidnapping took place.

However, it's possible this man did see something, and the police later found out it was unrelated to the kidnapping - maybe it really was just two guys helping an intoxicated female get home. That was homecoming weekend, so maybe someone just partied a little too much.

One article I read reported that someone heard three "piercing screams" around 7:15 p.m. that night, and thought it was just the sound of kids playing. No one else reported hearing any screams.

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 03:05 PM
I found it! I knew I had seen it but i kept missing it when going through the pagesin the book. In the book "Where' Evelyn" there is a copy of the newspaper article about "Mr X "and what he saw. This copy is from the Chicago Tribune. The title says "Here is Mr X's Story of Night Girl Vanished" and says "Saw couple stagger, was she Evelyn?" The rest is so small i can't read it, as it is a microfilm copy. Like I mentioned, he went to police on Monday, and was interviewd by two detectives, and even talked with Evelyn's parents. I'm not sure why he didn't go to police sooner than Monday but he made it sound like that is when he put 2 and 2 together. I ,too, wonder if the brother in law was ever talked to. Someday when I have the money I am going to request copies of all articles the LaCrosse Tribune about the Hartley case, maybe there is more info in these little snippets here and there.

I can make out some of the text which goes on to a different topic of the abduction and mentions "maybe Evelyn recognized her abductor and let him in the front door,she also trusted him to let him go into the basement for whatever reason he may have given her-where he could have opened the basement window from the inside, pushed out the screen and planted the stepladder under the window. "

"Some feel the abductor was familiar with the Rasmusen home and knew how to operate the front door latch,which is a difficult self locking one for getting out in a hurry.."

If the abductor did go into the basement and do all that, he must have come back up and grabbed a still trusting Evelyn at that point because of all the evidence of the struggle in the livingroom, then dragged her back down. Still very confusing.

Usher737
10-26-2005, 03:28 PM
I keep thinking that the perps were there to take Evelyn. Perhaps they were out that night looking for a victim and spotted her going into that house. They waited and saw the couple leave. They used the basement window perhaps because it was the easiest one to gain entry. The perp wanted to suprise her. They could have left thru that same window not to be noticed. The front door could have drawn too much attention to them, especially with Evelyn bleeding.

I wonder how well searched the area where her clothes were found. I cant imagine these type of perps taking her very far or taking a large amount of time to dump the body. I believe her remains are within a small proximity from the clothes and abduction scene.

docwho3
10-26-2005, 04:02 PM
I cannot say for certain whether or not flying model airplanes had come into popularity by 1953. As a kid, I recall seeing them for the first time in the late 1950's. The Boy Scouts of America "Handbook for Boys", as well as their magazine "Boys Life" used to advertise those airplanes by 1960, but I looked in a 1951 copy "Handbook for Boys", and could not find any advertisements for them. There were numerous other advertisement pages for hiking shoes, rifles, bicycles, etc.

Having flown model planes, I don't recall having any circular wear patterns on my shoes. You normally would fly the planes on a soft grass field, to avoid hard crash landings, and because there just weren't very large blacktop or paved areas to fly in. Also, you go around by stepping, not by pivoting in place on your shoe.

I would think that maybe a motorcyclist who did "donuts" might wear down his shoes in a circular pattern, or maybe someone who operates some type of machinery with his foot might wear the shoe down in such a pattern. Some tractors and heavy equipment have accellorators or brakes which had metal "teeth". Perhaps a person who had a tendency to twist his foot on such a pedal might wear a circular pattern into it.

I have never heard the term Whizzer Rider. Is that some sort of bike?
I really liked the idea you mentioned about the equipment operators. I have a relative in construction & will ask him about it.

(Rats! I just accidently lost my whole reply to your post by reloading the page. So I will now try to redo it.)

In a previous post I had a link to a webpage about model airplanes which speaks a litle of the years and the history. They waned at times in popularity.
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/historyofcl.htm

My dad was also a model airplane enthusiast even using the old control line models but I could not remember all that much about shoe wear patterns.
I do remember that sometimes people went to small airports on special prearranged days and flew their models from an unused paved runway.
But I don't remember if this held true for those older control line models for sure. So I asked if it was possible that wear pattern could result from control line model flying. Evidently the answer is that it could not. (Do you have an old pair of shoes around with wear from using old control line models that you could look at to be sure?)

About Whizzers:
I previously posted some links to info about them. I hope it helps.
858219

docwho3
10-26-2005, 04:34 PM
In response to someone posting that the cops never considered the thing to be a botched burglary:
Actually that was my own theory as a possible explanation of the facts and which I had posted was just my own thoughts. I explained in the original post what I based the idea on.

"I watched a TV show on where they hired a burglar to test peoples home security by burgaling their home while they were away(with their permission & knowledge.) One of his favorite tactics was to look for a window that was unlatched, even if it was on an upper floor of a 2 story home. I guess I am wondering if this was done by someone with experience in home breaking."
See original post:
858084

As to whatever the papers may have said:
For this post, today, I did not go back through the papers to look but I do remember one of them saying that at one time the police thought it was done by locals but I can't remember whether they also thought it was a botched burglary. As I said before, the botched burglary was my own idea. In any case I have also seen newpapaer reports which said the police think it was a transient worker so news reports which mention police theory may not be accurate or the police theories may have changed many times over the months & years.

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 04:37 PM
I found it! I knew I had seen it but i kept missing it when going through the pagesin the book. In the book "Where' Evelyn" there is a copy of the newspaper article about "Mr X "and what he saw. This copy is from the Chicago Tribune. The title says "Here is Mr X's Story of Night Girl Vanished" and says "Saw couple stagger, was she Evelyn?" The rest is so small i can't read it, as it is a microfilm copy. Like I mentioned, he went to police on Monday, and was interviewd by two detectives, and even talked with Evelyn's parents. I'm not sure why he didn't go to police sooner than Monday but he made it sound like that is when he put 2 and 2 together. I ,too, wonder if the brother in law was ever talked to. Someday when I have the money I am going to request copies of all articles the LaCrosse Tribune about the Hartley case, maybe there is more info in these little snippets here and there.

I can make out some of the text which goes on to a different topic of the abduction and mentions "maybe Evelyn recognized her abductor and let him in the front door,she also trusted him to let him go into the basement for whatever reason he may have given her-where he could have opened the basement window from the inside, pushed out the screen and planted the stepladder under the window. "

"Some feel the abductor was familiar with the Rasmusen home and knew how to operate the front door latch,which is a difficult self locking one for getting out in a hurry.."

If the abductor did go into the basement and do all that, he must have come back up and grabbed a still trusting Evelyn at that point because of all the evidence of the struggle in the livingroom, then dragged her back down. Still very confusing.
Thanks for finding that info about Mr. X.

It sounds like this report of the incident is quite different, and more detailed, than what I've read so far. I'll have to look it up.

I've been wondering about the front door, and whether it might have locked on it's own. From this article, it appears that could be the case, since they describe a self-locking door. So Evelyn could have been taken through the front door, which locked behind them, explaining why her father found the house locked when he got there.

In that case, though, why was so much blood found near the basement window? Maybe it was at that point that Evelyn was hit with something to knock her out?

There are a lot of contradictions in the newspaper accounts of this matter. A couple of articles said there were no signs of violence, just marks on the carpet where it looks like someone was dragged. But other articles said furniture was in disarray and it looks like there was a "fierce struggle." One paper reported that Evelyn's mother visited the Rasmusen house after Evelyn disappeared, and when she saw the state the room was in, she began to cry and said that she knew Evelyn was dead. Another article refers to "bloody tracks". Joellegirl, in the book you have about this case, how is the crime scene described?

If, as the Chicago Tribune suggests, the kidnapper knew the Rasmusen home, it makes me wonder if he might have worked on a construction crew building those homes.

Marilynilpa
10-26-2005, 04:46 PM
snip
As to whatever the papers may have said:
For this post, today, I did not go back through the papers to look but I do remember one of them saying that at one time the police thought it was done by locals but I can't remember whether they also thought it was a botched burglary. As I said before, the botched burglary was my own idea. In any case I have also seen newpapaer reports which said the police think it was a transient worker so news reports which mention police theory may not be accurate or the police theories may have changed many times over the months & years.I was also speculating that it might have been a botched burglary, but now that I've read more about the case today, I tend to think Evelyn was the target, not burglary.

By the way, I just posted something about the inconsistencies in the newspaper articles about this crime.

I think the police said the kidnapper might be a transient worker because they gave lie detector tests to 1700 males who lived and/or attended school in and around the vicinity where the crime took place, and apparently all of them passed. They concluded it must have been someone passing through town. That theory changed frequently.

About a week after Evelyn's disappearance, the police chief said she had been taken by a "sex maniac". After the jacket was found, the police theorized it might have been worn by a steeplejack. At one time they thought someone from a rural area was the kidnapper, because the bloody tennis shoes showed no signs of having been worn in a gymnasium or on pavement.

I think the bottom line is, the police were stumped by this case. They had very little clues to go on, so they most likely were grasping at straws. Even when they turned up some evidence, such as the bloody clothing, it really didn't tell them much. It had to have been an extremely frustrating case for the police.

joellegirl
10-26-2005, 05:33 PM
The book has two different pictures of the livingroom. One shows Evelyn's glasses and shoe on the carpet, the other is a wider shot of the same thing that includes blood droplets. I have also read(other articles) it was mud. It does look like blood to me. The furniture in the picture doesn't look too messed up to me. Her textbooks were also scattered about(can't see them in picture). There is also a picture of Evelyn's other shoe at the foot of the basement stairs, and another picture of the step ladder placed against the basement window. I saw some news footage once that showed the couch and other parts of livingroom and it's wasn't in too much disarray. There must be pictures of the blood outside and on the side of neighbor's house, but those aren't in the book. There are several pictures of the outside of the house and the neigborhood.

I believe it was outside where the pools of blood were where Evelyn's mother collapsed saying her Evie couldn't possibly be alive.

shadowangel
10-26-2005, 06:51 PM
"Some feel the abductor was familiar with the Rasmusen home and knew how to operate the front door latch,which is a difficult self locking one for getting out in a hurry.."


These were new homes, possibly someone involved in their construction was involved? This might explain the condition of the jacket, and would also explain a familiarity with the layout. It is even possible that crews were finishing the "little details" after the family had moved in. If this were a bothed robbery, there may have been something specific in this home the burglars (or bunglers) were after. JMO.

docwho3
10-27-2005, 09:03 AM
Thoughts & questions:

We know the night the crime happened was a sort of special night when people were more likely to be elsewhere: Which means fewer likely witnesses to any crime whether you are TPing or murdering. But it also can mean you have different people coming into town with the fans of the other team.
Could someone have planned & used the cover of the game happening to slip in and commit a crime (whether burglary or kdnapping &murder)?

We know that, whether good or bad, the father probably contaminated the scene by entering the house especially if he really used the same window that the bad guys entered & exited from. I don't think that means he was possibly involved but it is just one of the many possibilities that must be weighed & either tossed out or brought in as needed.

We know that the perp/s came in through a basement window & possibly exited through same. Could it be that how we interpret this piece of info may point us in the right direction or lead us astray? Or does it matter in the end?
I think I read that the door lock was a complicated self locking affair.
Perhaps they could have went out the door leaving it locked behind them.
That is not consistent with the evidence though. So does that tell us these were pros? Does it say they were panicked? Stupid? Did exiting through the window seem sneakier to them & thus make more sense to them than taking the easier & faster way through a door exit? If so is that an immature way of thinking?

We know that a shoe print or prints was found at the crime scene and that one of the prints showed a circular wear pattern. It was speculated that this might have been caused by riding a motorbicycle (motor kit added to a bicycle) but this was never proven to be the cause so the wear pattern might have some other cause. This clue could sort of indicate an age range for one perp. or possibly could tell something of his occupation depending on how the clue is interpreted.

We know a scream or screams was heard at a particular time which may or may not fix the time of the attack.

We know that some blood was found at the crime scene in and around the house. I am unclear of the amount of blood but from the news reports it might seem to be enough to wonder if the victem was either completely incapacitated or maybe even dead.

We know there was a possible eye witness to the perps walking the victem to a car. Whether I find this credible or not does not matter as it is still something we must properly interpret and weight as to value in the case.

Shoes matching the prints at the crime scene were found miles from that scene along a road. Also a jacket was located and picked up by a farmer. He claimed he found it near where the shoes were found. Was he telling the truth? Was the jacket even a part of the case?

Also a newspaper reported a sheathed knife was found in a culvert when searchers were out looking for evidence. Was this connected to the case?

Was the direction away from town in which the shoes were found an indication of the direction of the perps flight? If so, could that lead to an idea of where one or more of them might live? Did they just continue on going & leave the whole area for parts unknown? If so who was missing from town on unexpected vacation or to see to a death in the family?

It was generally concluded that the jacket was too small to be worn by the perp that wore the shoes. Was that a correct conclusion? If there were two perps does that mean we have an item from each of them? Would the FBI consider doing a modern forensics work up on the evidence?

We know one boy from the area later ran away from home but no direct reason to think he was connected to the case. He was,I believe, questioned by the police later.

We know a large search of the area was conducted with steel rods being poked into all recent excavations, cars being checked for blood stains in them, and lie detecter tests being given to many students in the school.
Were those results accurate? Those tests were stopped when people with the power to do so objected. Were they looking out for peoples rights or was someones guilty son in a group yet to be tested?

Were all the cars really checked? I doubt it myself but I know that today people sometimes commit a murder & then drive out of state so a bunch of local car searches might not always catch them. And even locally there is always someone with pull who can get themselves declared "searched" without going through a search. Besides, the cars were not all searched within hours but over a period of many days (I think.) Even a local had time to clean their car. Without having DNA science to fear, having a clean car was all that was required to squeak by.

We also know a serial killer may have been operating in the area but have little to tie him to the case except I think someone pointed out the shoes found were on a road leading towards the area the serial killer lived in. He had worked as a baby sitter and as a handyman/carpenter.

Was there a working airport nearby at the time? If so could the perps & the body have literally flown away?

There are more facts to consider than I have room to mention here so we don't have an absence of data. We seem to almost have too much.

Marilynilpa
10-27-2005, 02:14 PM
docwho3, I agree that there are numerous factors in this case that have to be taken into consideration. I wish I had access to the police records to determine what the actual facts are, since the newspaper articles I've read about this case are often conflicting.

Regarding Evelyn's father, he did climb in through the unlocked basement window. I suppose it was too dark for him to see any blood on the grass or on the house next door. From what I can gather, he entered the house around 9:30 p.m. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that!) You stated that he may have contaminated the crime scene, and that is possible. However, it doesn't sound like there was much evidence for him to contaminate.

The basement window is a puzzler to me. You state that the evidence doesn't support the perp(s) exiting through the front door. I'm not sure about that, as there really isn't much evidence to show how they entered/exited, is there? I've been assuming they came/went through the unlocked basement window, because when Evelyn's father came to the house, the doors were locked. But since it is possible the front door was self-latching, that makes a difference. Do we know anything that would prove that the front door wasn't used? I've never been able to come up with a scenario in which it made sense to exit through the basement window. So maybe the front door was used.

A size 36 jacket and size 12 1/2 tennis shoes were found fairly close together, and not far from where a bra and panties that MIGHT have been Evelyn's were found. I say "might have been" because although the blood type matched Evelyn's, her mother couldn't say for sure that they belonged to Evelyn. I read in one article that a slip and pantyhose were also found nearby, which didn't belong to Evelyn as she was wearing slacks that evening. So I'm wondering how much of that clothing has any bearing on this case. The tennis shoes seem to be tied to this case because they matched a footprint left at the house. As to the jacket, maybe no one was wearing it, maybe it just happened to be in the car the perp was driving and he used it to wrap a bloody weapon in, or used it to wipe blood off the car or off of his body.

One thing that interests me is that in Madison, Wisconsin around the same time as Evelyn's disappearance, someone entered two different houses through a basement window, slugging them on the back of the head with a blackjack. The attacks occurred within a week of each other. The articles I read about this didn't mention if any other crime took place (rape, burglary?) during these attacks. These assaults took place in a newly developed housing area. A black man was arrested when the police stopped his car and notices a lead pipe in the back with blood and hair on it. The man claimed he had no idea how it got there. At the time, the police seemed to think this wasn't related to Evelyn's disappearance, but I am going to do a little more research on this. The fact that he entered through the basement windows of houses in a newly developed area, and apparently knew the women were alone in the house, makes me very curious about this!

Usher737
10-27-2005, 02:51 PM
One thing that interests me is that in Madison, Wisconsin around the same time as Evelyn's disappearance, someone entered two different houses through a basement window, slugging them on the back of the head with a blackjack. The attacks occurred within a week of each other. The articles I read about this didn't mention if any other crime took place (rape, burglary?) during these attacks. These assaults took place in a newly developed housing area. A black man was arrested when the police stopped his car and notices a lead pipe in the back with blood and hair on it. The man claimed he had no idea how it got there. At the time, the police seemed to think this wasn't related to Evelyn's disappearance, but I am going to do a little more research on this. The fact that he entered through the basement windows of houses in a newly developed area, and apparently knew the women were alone in the house, makes me very curious about this!


I also find this very interesting. This angle definetly needs further research. I believe it is possible this person could have harmed Evelyn. He found a home with a young female and no adults and took advantage of the situaion. Perhaps he did not mean to kill her or took her with him if she claimed the parents would be returning shortly.

docwho3
10-27-2005, 02:52 PM
. . .One thing that interests me is that in Madison, Wisconsin around the same time as Evelyn's disappearance, someone entered two different houses through a basement window, slugging them on the back of the head with a blackjack. The attacks occurred within a week of each other. The articles I read about this didn't mention if any other crime took place (rape, burglary?) during these attacks. These assaults took place in a newly developed housing area. A black man was arrested when the police stopped his car and notices a lead pipe in the back with blood and hair on it. The man claimed he had no idea how it got there. At the time, the police seemed to think this wasn't related to Evelyn's disappearance, but I am going to do a little more research on this. The fact that he entered through the basement windows of houses in a newly developed area, and apparently knew the women were alone in the house, makes me very curious about this!
OOOOOOOoooo A very good find! I hope you are able to find out more.

. . .Regarding Evelyn's father, he did climb in through the unlocked basement window. I suppose it was too dark for him to see any blood on the grass or on the house next door. From what I can gather, he entered the house around 9:30 p.m. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that!) You stated that he may have contaminated the crime scene, and that is possible. However, it doesn't sound like there was much evidence for him to contaminate.
He may well have smudged or even accidently erased prints. But I was actually thinking that he has now placed his own person in the scene so now anything pointing to him (if it should turn into a relative slaying) can be explained away by his having entered through the window. Sort of-"Oh those threads from my clothes came off when I entered the window to check on my daughter."

. . .
The basement window is a puzzler to me. You state that the evidence doesn't support the perp(s) exiting through the front door. I'm not sure about that, as there really isn't much evidence to show how they entered/exited, is there? I've been assuming they came/went through the unlocked basement window, because when Evelyn's father came to the house, the doors were locked. But since it is possible the front door was self-latching, that makes a difference. Do we know anything that would prove that the front door wasn't used? I've never been able to come up with a scenario in which it made sense to exit through the basement window. So maybe the front door was used.
In a previous post someone pointed out how one shoe was found upstairs and the other downstairs. Also that a ladder was found at the basement window and that an unknown amount of blood was found outside the window.
So I decided to go with the flow. If sleuths seem to feel the basement was the exit point and the evidence appears to support it or at least make it possible I saw no reason to argue the point but it puzzles me somewhat.

. . .A size 36 jacket and size 12 1/2 tennis shoes were found fairly close together, and not far from where a bra and panties that MIGHT have been Evelyn's were found. I say "might have been" because although the blood type matched Evelyn's, her mother couldn't say for sure that they belonged to Evelyn. I read in one article that a slip and pantyhose were also found nearby, which didn't belong to Evelyn as she was wearing slacks that evening. So I'm wondering how much of that clothing has any bearing on this case. The tennis shoes seem to be tied to this case because they matched a footprint left at the house. As to the jacket, maybe no one was wearing it, maybe it just happened to be in the car the perp was driving and he used it to wrap a bloody weapon in, or used it to wipe blood off the car or off of his body.
Maybe modern tests could be run on those articles of hers?

The jacket was actually in the possesion of a farmer(I think it was a farmer) according to the newspaper report that I read. (If I remember it correctly.) So all we have is his word that he found it near where the shoes were found. The cops heard rumors that someone had a bloody jacket or something to that effect so the cops followed up on the rumor (sounds more like a tip) & found the man in possession of the jacket. I wonder if his land was searched and his young relatives (if he had any) were checked out. I would think that if that coat was involved at all that having only his unverified word of how he came to posses it makes him worthy of more investigation.

Marilynilpa
10-28-2005, 09:28 AM
OOOOOOOoooo A very good find! I hope you are able to find out more.


He may well have smudged or even accidently erased prints. But I was actually thinking that he has now placed his own person in the scene so now anything pointing to him (if it should turn into a relative slaying) can be explained away by his having entered through the window. Sort of-"Oh those threads from my clothes came off when I entered the window to check on my daughter."


In a previous post someone pointed out how one shoe was found upstairs and the other downstairs. Also that a ladder was found at the basement window and that an unknown amount of blood was found outside the window.
So I decided to go with the flow. If sleuths seem to feel the basement was the exit point and the evidence appears to support it or at least make it possible I saw no reason to argue the point but it puzzles me somewhat.


Maybe modern tests could be run on those articles of hers?

The jacket was actually in the possesion of a farmer(I think it was a farmer) according to the newspaper report that I read. (If I remember it correctly.) So all we have is his word that he found it near where the shoes were found. The cops heard rumors that someone had a bloody jacket or something to that effect so the cops followed up on the rumor (sounds more like a tip) & found the man in possession of the jacket. I wonder if his land was searched and his young relatives (if he had any) were checked out. I would think that if that coat was involved at all that having only his unverified word of how he came to posses it makes him worthy of more investigation.
About Evelyn's father - apparently suspicion did fall upon him shortly after Evelyn's disappearance. He requested, and passed, a lie detector test.

I still have questions about whether or not the basement window was used as an exit. Some articles I've read state that there was blood found on the grass outside the home, but don't specifically state that it was outside the basement window. If Evelyn's father climbed through that window to enter the house, it seems he would have stepped in the blood and tracked it into the house. Yet there is no mention of bloody footprints in the basement or the house.

While it makes sense to go with the majority opinion that the basement window was used both to enter and exit the house, I'm not totally convinced yet. I know the police said the window had been used, because the doors were locked when Evelyn's father got there, and the window was unlocked. But if the door was self-latching, the perp(s) could have taken Evelyn out that way, with the door locking itself as they exited. It was dark when the crime took place (between 7:30 to 9:30 p.m. according to police), and other than Mr. X, no one else seemed to be out that evening. So I think it's possible the front door could have been used.

As to the various articles of clothing that turned up, I don't know whether any of this stuff was Evelyn's. The tennis shoes appear to be the only items that could definitely be linked to the crime scene. Today it would be easy to test the bloody clothing and use DNA analysis to prove or disprove whether it was connected to this crime. But the best the police could do at the time was ascertain the blood type - Type A, the same as Evelyn's.

joellegirl
10-28-2005, 10:50 AM
The first pool of blood was found about 10 feet from the open basement window. It was a pool of blood about 18 inches in diameter and under the baby's room window . The father hadn't seen any blood when walking around and obviously didn't step in it, but when the police arrived they found it as they used their flashlights.

They found a bloody trail near the Rasmusen home that night, but with morning light what had happened had become gruesomely more clear.They found bloodstains on the neighbor garage about 100 feet from the Rasmusen home and on a neighbor's house.

Blood was found about four feet above the ground on the garage and extending in spots most of the side of the neighbor house. It appears they found two more pools of blood, where they theorized her captors had temporarily rested her on the ground. The blood on the garage was probably left as her hand dragged across the building as her abductor carried her away.

I was thinking about the blood that was found in the livingroom. I have also read it was mud, but it does look like blood in the picture. If she was bleeding already one would think if she had been dragged down the basement stairs there would have been a bloody trail . So maybe she was taken out the front door, yet there doesn't appear to have been any blood near the door or in the front of the house either. Of course the first wound may have not been as bad and didn't bleed as much.

Marilynilpa
10-28-2005, 11:12 AM
The first pool of blood was found about 10 feet from the open basement window. It was a pool of blood about 18 inches in diameter and under the baby's room window . The father hadn't seen any blood when walking around and obviously didn't step in it, but when the police arrived they found it as they used their flashlights.

They found a bloody trail near the Rasmusen home that night, but with morning light what had happened had become gruesomely more clear.They found bloodstains on the neighbor garage about 100 feet from the Rasmusen home and on a neighbor's house.

Blood was found about four feet above the ground on the garage and extending in spots most of the side of the neighbor house. It appears they found two more pools of blood, where they theorized her captors had temporarily rested her on the ground. The blood on the garage was probably left as her hand dragged across the building as her abductor carried her away.

I was thinking about the blood that was found in the livingroom. I have also read it was mud, but it does look like blood in the picture. If she was bleeding already one would think if she had been dragged down the basement stairs there would have been a bloody trail . So maybe she was taken out the front door, yet there doesn't appear to have been any blood near the door or in the front of the house either. Of course the first wound may have not been as bad and didn't bleed as much.
So there wasn't any blood directly under the basement window. If Evelyn had been attacked in the house and dragged down the stairs, then pushed/pulled out the basement window, I would have expected there to be more blood.

Possibly when Evelyn was attacked in the house, she was knocked unconscious but was not bleeding heavily. If she came to and was attacked again outside, that could explain why there was so much blood outside, but little if any inside the house. A neighbor claimed to have heard three piercing screams that evening, with the third scream cut short, and thought it was just kids playing outside - but it could have been Evelyn.

Knowing where the blood was located outside makes me again question whether the basement window was used to enter/exit the house.

joellegirl
10-28-2005, 12:04 PM
In the book "Where's Evelyn?" it mentions detectives found in the window well(of the open basement window) a button with red threads attached. Evelyn was wearing red pants, but unfortunately the threads blew away in the wind as they were discovering them. I wonder what became of the button. Since Evelyn's best friend had the exact same outfit and gave it to police, they could see if the button belonged to the pants. Also, the Wisconsin Crime Lab removed two cement bricks from the basement wall to test for blood. Not sure if they found anything though.

I still wonder how Evelyn's shoe wound up at the foot of the basement stairs. One's first thought is it fell off as she was dragged, but she could have thrown it down there in defense if she had heard someone in the basement.

Marilynilpa
10-28-2005, 01:07 PM
In the book "Where's Evelyn?" it mentions detectives found in the window well(of the open basement window) a button with red threads attached. Evelyn was wearing red pants, but unfortunately the threads blew away in the wind as they were discovering them. I wonder what became of the button. Since Evelyn's best friend had the exact same outfit and gave it to police, they could see if the button belonged to the pants. Also, the Wisconsin Crime Lab removed two cement bricks from the basement wall to test for blood. Not sure if they found anything though.

I still wonder how Evelyn's shoe wound up at the foot of the basement stairs. One's first thought is it fell off as she was dragged, but she could have thrown it down there in defense if she had heard someone in the basement.
That is interesting, a button with red threads. I read an article that stated some pants were located during one of the searches for Evelyn, but there wasn't much detail about color, whether a button was missing, etc.

Another possibility for the shoe in the basement - Evelyn heard a noise, went down to see what it was, found someone in the basement, and tried to run back up the stairs. Her shoe could have fallen off, or the person in basement might have grabbed her foot trying to stop her, pulling the shoe off her foot.

The reason I keep questioning the basement window as an exit is that I can see no reason for it. The perp wore size 12 1/2 tennis shoes. Of course he could have been a small guy with big feet, but I am assuming this is a tall man. He went upstairs, because we know Evelyn was assaulted there in some manner (broken glasses were found there, along with one shoe). She was most likely unconscious, or at the least, stunned by the attack. So in addition to getting his large and/or tall self out that 14 inch window, he also had to get Evelyn out. It just seems so unwieldy - even if there were two perps, it seems like a very awkward way to leave the house.

I have one question that is probably way out in left field, but I'll ask it anyway. Did the Rasmusens have any money? I know he was a college professor, but what about his wife? I'm asking that because I wondered if maybe the original intent of this crime was to kidnap the baby, possibly for ransom. The stepladder found outside wasn't needed to get into the basement, so why was it there - to get into the baby's room perhaps? The perp(s) found that window locked, discovered the unlocked basement window, and went in. Maybe he/they just planned on tying up Evelyn, but she put up more of a fight than anticipated and the whole tragic chain of events began.

That is total and complete speculation on my part, and probably not supported by any of the facts!

joellegirl
10-28-2005, 01:56 PM
That is interesting, a button with red threads. I read an article that stated some pants were located during one of the searches for Evelyn, but there wasn't much detail about color, whether a button was missing, etc.

Another possibility for the shoe in the basement - Evelyn heard a noise, went down to see what it was, found someone in the basement, and tried to run back up the stairs. Her shoe could have fallen off, or the person in basement might have grabbed her foot trying to stop her, pulling the shoe off her foot.

The reason I keep questioning the basement window as an exit is that I can see no reason for it. The perp wore size 12 1/2 tennis shoes. Of course he could have been a small guy with big feet, but I am assuming this is a tall man. He went upstairs, because we know Evelyn was assaulted there in some manner (broken glasses were found there, along with one shoe). She was most likely unconscious, or at the least, stunned by the attack. So in addition to getting his large and/or tall self out that 14 inch window, he also had to get Evelyn out. It just seems so unwieldy - even if there were two perps, it seems like a very awkward way to leave the house.

I have one question that is probably way out in left field, but I'll ask it anyway. Did the Rasmusens have any money? I know he was a college professor, but what about his wife? I'm asking that because I wondered if maybe the original intent of this crime was to kidnap the baby, possibly for ransom. The stepladder found outside wasn't needed to get into the basement, so why was it there - to get into the baby's room perhaps? The perp(s) found that window locked, discovered the unlocked basement window, and went in. Maybe he/they just planned on tying up Evelyn, but she put up more of a fight than anticipated and the whole tragic chain of events began.

That is total and complete speculation on my part, and probably not supported by any of the facts!

That sounds like a good scenerio of how Evelyn's shoe could have wound up in the basement. There could have been struggles in several parts of the house. I think we can know one thing for sure is Evelyn fought hard for her life.

Ironically, her best friend remembered discussing with Evelyn the case of Bobby Greenlease (child kidnapped not long before Evelyn was in Kansas City, he was the child of a weathly businessman and it was in all the papers) and this friend said she would run if something like that happened to her, and Evelyn said she would fight.

Actually, the step ladder was in the basement on the inside, up against the wall under the window. The Rasmusen's said it was down there for painting, and it appeared to have been moved over to the window.

I've never read anything about the Rasmusen's financial situation. Their brand new house was a small ranch with maybe three bedrooms. I believe I read it cost $13,000 when it was built in the spring of 1953, which is about average for the time I'm guessing.Since he was a professor I'm guessing they were doing pretty good, but not rich. Maybe middle class or upper middle class. The book mentions the Hartley's weren't wealthy, doing allright I assume but both families don't appear to have been rich.

I'm rambling here, but...

Another thing that locked the possible abduction time between 7:00- 7:15pm is when the Rasmusens left around 6:45pm the mother instructed Evelyn to check on the baby in half hour and cover her. When the Rasmusen's returned from the game and found their house and yard crawling with police, they rushed to check their daughter and found she had not been covered, the blanket was still neatly folded at the foot of the crib. Knowing Evelyn was very dependable and would have done this as instructed, it appeared she was abducted before that half hour was up.

Where did you read about the neighbor hearing the third scream cut off? That is interesting. I've been studying this case ever since I first learned about it from family (I'm thinking about 25 years ago!) and that sound's familiar (maybe a Newspaper Archives article?). I know a neighbor reported hearing screams but the fact that one was cut off makes it more interesting.

Marilynilpa
10-28-2005, 04:25 PM
That sounds like a good scenerio of how Evelyn's shoe could have wound up in the basement. There could have been struggles in several parts of the house. I think we can know one thing for sure is Evelyn fought hard for her life.

Ironically, her best friend remembered discussing with Evelyn the case of Bobby Greenlease (child kidnapped not long before Evelyn was in Kansas City, he was the child of a weathly businessman and it was in all the papers) and this friend said she would run if something like that happened to her, and Evelyn said she would fight.

Actually, the step ladder was in the basement on the inside, up against the wall under the window. The Rasmusen's said it was down there for painting, and it appeared to have been moved over to the window.

I've never read anything about the Rasmusen's financial situation. Their brand new house was a small ranch with maybe three bedrooms. I believe I read it cost $13,000 when it was built in the spring of 1953, which is about average for the time I'm guessing.Since he was a professor I'm guessing they were doing pretty good, but not rich. Maybe middle class or upper middle class. The book mentions the Hartley's weren't wealthy, doing allright I assume but both families don't appear to have been rich.

I'm rambling here, but...

Another thing that locked the possible abduction time between 7:00- 7:15pm is when the Rasmusens left around 6:45pm the mother instructed Evelyn to check on the baby in half hour and cover her. When the Rasmusen's returned from the game and found their house and yard crawling with police, they rushed to check their daughter and found she had not been covered, the blanket was still neatly folded at the foot of the crib. Knowing Evelyn was very dependable and would have done this as instructed, it appeared she was abducted before that half hour was up.

Where did you read about the neighbor hearing the third scream cut off? That is interesting. I've been studying this case ever since I first learned about it from family (I'm thinking about 25 years ago!) and that sound's familiar (maybe a Newspaper Archives article?). I know a neighbor reported hearing screams but the fact that one was cut off makes it more interesting.
I'm sorry, I thought the ladder was outside the house. I was obviously mistaken about that.

Regarding the statement about the three screams, with one cut off, was in one of the articles I pulled up from Newspaper Archives. I'll go back and find the date and the paper, and will see exactly how that was worded. I'm pretty sure the neighbor said it was around 7:30 p.m.

I imagine Evelyn put up quite a struggle, but in the end a 15 year old girl is no match for an adult male.

Richard
10-28-2005, 04:28 PM
The first pool of blood was found about 10 feet from the open basement window. It was a pool of blood about 18 inches in diameter and under the baby's room window . The father hadn't seen any blood when walking around and obviously didn't step in it, but when the police arrived they found it as they used their flashlights.

They found a bloody trail near the Rasmusen home that night, but with morning light what had happened had become gruesomely more clear.They found bloodstains on the neighbor garage about 100 feet from the Rasmusen home and on a neighbor's house.

Blood was found about four feet above the ground on the garage and extending in spots most of the side of the neighbor house. It appears they found two more pools of blood, where they theorized her captors had temporarily rested her on the ground. The blood on the garage was probably left as her hand dragged across the building as her abductor carried her away.

I was thinking about the blood that was found in the livingroom. I have also read it was mud, but it does look like blood in the picture. If she was bleeding already one would think if she had been dragged down the basement stairs there would have been a bloody trail . So maybe she was taken out the front door, yet there doesn't appear to have been any blood near the door or in the front of the house either. Of course the first wound may have not been as bad and didn't bleed as much.
It sounds to me as if Evelyn suffered wounds inside the house, and also after she was taken from the house. Blood "flouresces" under bright artificial lights, and that is probably why the police found it immediately, whereas Evelyn's father had not seen it.

The amount of blood sounds like a severe head cut, or possibly a cut artery. Blood which is 4 feet high on a building did not get there by gravity, it was likely pumped out at an angle. A head injury tends to bleed straight downward, soaking hair, eyes, and clothing.

As a hunter, I have trailed a number of wounded animals, and this definitely sounds like a serious injury. I wonder of the abductor(s) might have held a knife to her in attempt to scare or quiet her, but that the mutual struggling may have caused her (or one of the abductors) be get a deep cut.

With all that blood, were any fingerprints or palm prints obtained?

Marilynilpa
10-28-2005, 05:04 PM
It sounds to me as if Evelyn suffered wounds inside the house, and also after she was taken from the house. Blood "flouresces" under bright artificial lights, and that is probably why the police found it immediately, whereas Evelyn's father had not seen it.

The amount of blood sounds like a severe head cut, or possibly a cut artery. Blood which is 4 feet high on a building did not get there by gravity, it was likely pumped out at an angle. A head injury tends to bleed straight downward, soaking hair, eyes, and clothing.

As a hunter, I have trailed a number of wounded animals, and this definitely sounds like a serious injury. I wonder of the abductor(s) might have held a knife to her in attempt to scare or quiet her, but that the mutual struggling may have caused her (or one of the abductors) be get a deep cut.

With all that blood, were any fingerprints or palm prints obtained?
I have not found anything suggesting fingerprints were found. There was mention of a bloody palmprint on the wall of the house next door, but other articles I read described it as a smear. In any event, it doesn't appear any fingerprints or palmprints were lifted.

I don't know how much of a struggle took place inside the house. We know her glasses were broken, so there had to have been some sort of struggle. Here is a quote from one article about the crime scene: "Puzzling authorities is the fact there were no signs of violence in the Rasmusen home. Two streaks across the shag rug in the living room, like someone being dragged, were the only indication that anything happened there." I'm wondering if Evelyn might have been stunned by a blow and dragged from the house.

If so, then where did all the blood come from outside the house? Your suggestion that a knife might have been used to scare Evelyn, or to keep her quiet, seems reasonable. Perhaps once outside the house, Evelyn "came to" and begin to struggle fiercely. She may even have screamed, and was stabbed/bludgeoned/whatever, leaving a pool of blood on the grass.

That same article I quoted above mentioned three screams heard by a neighbor. "[Police state that] a neighbor has said he heard 'three piercing screams about 7:15 p.m.' He tells us they were alarming in their intensity. The last one cut off abruptly. He dismissed them at the time as children screaming."

The lack of blood in the house is puzzling, but seems to indicate that the real assault against Evelyn took place outside rather than in the house.

Marilynilpa
10-31-2005, 11:03 AM
Several days after Evelyn's disappearance, District Attorney John Bosshard was asked why the FBI had not been called in to help investigate her kidnapping. "There's no such evidence [of kidnapping]," Bosshard said. "This is a sex crime rather than a kidnapping."

This was reported in the Kerrville Times on 10/30/53.

What evidence could Bosshard have had to make him come to that conclusion? And how could he say there was no evidence of kidnapping?:confused:

I find his comment to be very curious.

joellegirl
11-09-2005, 04:50 PM
I just found another article about the tape recording of a LaFarge, WI man admitting his involvement in the Evelyn Hartley case. This article is from the Charleston, IL Journal- Gazette and is similar to the La Crosse Tribune article but it includes a little more detail, including names.

Evelyn and her family lived in Charleston, IL prior to living in La Crosse. The town had a moment of silence for Evelyn in the days follwing her disappearance. Like La Crosse, this community has not forgotten Evelyn.

Link:

http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2004/05/24/news/news09.txt

Marilynilpa
11-09-2005, 05:06 PM
I just found another article about the tape recording of a LaFarge, WI man admitting his involvement in the Evelyn Hartley case. This article is from the Charleston, IL Journal- Gazette and is similar to the La Crosse Tribune article but it includes a little more detail, including names.

Evelyn and her family lived in Charleston, IL prior to living in La Crosse. The town had a moment of silence for Evelyn in the days follwing her disappearance. Like La Crosse, this community has not forgotten Evelyn.

Link:

http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2004/05/24/news/news09.txt
I need to go back through my notes, because I think this man was later ruled out as having anything to do with Evelyn's disappearance. If I can find the info, I'll post it here.

Usher737
11-09-2005, 05:10 PM
Wow! What an interesting article! I wonder if LE did a full investigation into the cofession like try to locate her body?

joellegirl
11-09-2005, 05:28 PM
Wow! What an interesting article! I wonder if LE did a full investigation into the cofession like try to locate her body?

According to the new book "Where's Evelyn?" by Susan Hessel, this is all still being investigated as we speak but unfortunately it is a very slow process and it is put on the backburner often due to current cases. From what I understand, LE has and is still taking this whole tape recorder confession (which came to light in 2003) very seriously. I check the LaCrosse Tribune daily hoping for an update. I just wish they could go out there today and start looking where her grave is supposed to be. Practically two years have gone by since the discovery of this tape, that is another two years for more evidence to be obliterated. Of course it may have all been obliterated many years ago but still! I'm hoping there is alot of investigating going on right now (as it has been reported) and maybe they are just keeping it quiet for the time being.

In the new book there is a transcript of the majority of the tape recording.

According to the confession, it sounds like THREE men were involved. We've all assumed at least two had to have been, but three, wow.

joellegirl
11-09-2005, 06:05 PM
I need to go back through my notes, because I think this man was later ruled out as having anything to do with Evelyn's disappearance. If I can find the info, I'll post it here.

You might be thinking of some older confessions(and there have been several). From what I have read this is the most current lead and is still being investigated, though not as fast as I would like!

This whole LaFarge story sounds quite believable to me. The articles of clothing were found on Rt 14 ( bloodied panites, bra-thought to be Evelyn's, bloodied jacket and shoes-thought to have been abductor's) . To go to LaFarge from LaCrosse one would start out taking RT 14.

I hope we can start hearing more about this soon.

The article mentions one of the men either knew or knew of Evelyn and knew she was babysitting that night. I wonder if he saw her walking home from school in the days leading up to the abduction and started stalking her, or maybe he worked odd jobs in that new neighborhood and had seen her when she babysat for the Rasmusen's that summer. All accounts say Mr Rasmusen picked up Evelyn from her home that night and drove her to his house. Maybe these men followed them.

Or maybe these men were after the Rasmusens' regular babysitter....

docwho3
11-10-2005, 07:31 AM
Sooo, whatever happened to the possibility of the man caught with a lead pipe beng involved. Has any more been done to follow up on that?
Sorry if it was posted & I missed seeing it.

Marilynilpa
11-10-2005, 08:41 AM
Sooo, whatever happened to the possibility of the man caught with a lead pipe beng involved. Has any more been done to follow up on that?
Sorry if it was posted & I missed seeing it.
I have been digging without success regarding this. The man who was arrested with the lead pipe in his car could never be connected to the assaults in Madison, Wisconsin. I'm hoping to find out if anyone was ever arrested for the Madison assaults, it seems like the story was just dropped.

If I can uncover anything else, I'll be sure and post it here.

Marilynilpa
11-10-2005, 09:28 AM
You might be thinking of some older confessions(and there have been several). From what I have read this is the most current lead and is still being investigated, though not as fast as I would like!

This whole LaFarge story sounds quite believable to me. The articles of clothing were found on Rt 14 ( bloodied panites, bra-thought to be Evelyn's, bloodied jacket and shoes-thought to have been abductor's) . To go to LaFarge from LaCrosse one would start out taking RT 14.

I hope we can start hearing more about this soon.

The article mentions one of the men either knew or knew of Evelyn and knew she was babysitting that night. I wonder if he saw her walking home from school in the days leading up to the abduction and started stalking her, or maybe he worked odd jobs in that new neighborhood and had seen her when she babysat for the Rasmusen's that summer. All accounts say Mr Rasmusen picked up Evelyn from her home that night and drove her to his house. Maybe these men followed them.

Or maybe these men were after the Rasmusens' regular babysitter....
You're right, I was thinking about Elder G. Frisled, a man who was questioned about Evelyn's disappearance. Apparently he had gone from tavern to tavern in Hanover, Illinois, claiming he knew what happened to Evelyn. He also claimed to have dated Evelyn several times. The police found out that this guy wasn't even near La Crosse, WI on the day Evelyn vanished.

You mention "maybe these men were after the Rasumusens' regular babysitter". I've wondered about that myself. It kind of sounds like Evelyn was a last minute substitution. One article I read reported that Evelyn didn't want to babysit that night.

I located an article today that I haven't seen before. A black man was arrested for raping and murdering a woman In Wauwatosa, WI in 1953, and he was looked at very closely in Evelyn's disappearance. The police said a "negroid" hair had been found in the tennis shoes believed to have been worn by Evelyn's kidnapper. This man had previously been convicted of raping a 14 year old white girl, and the evening he attacked and killed the woman in Wauwatosa, he had also attacked another white female. The police stated "substantial evidence" had been found linking this man, John J. Watson, to Evelyn's disappearance. Watson refused to answer any questions about the case, except to state that he was the victim of a conspiracy.

Ang50
11-10-2005, 09:41 AM
Hi all -

This is a fascinating case. My mother's maiden name is Hartley, and she grew up about 2 counties away from La Crosse. I will have to ask my parents about this case. Also - we have family land near La Farge. Does anyone happen to know what the confession said about the location? It's deer hunting season again, which seems to be the time when missing people are found. Incidentally, La Farge is now home to quite a large organic farming operation - Organic Valley. Oh - and one more strange connection - as a little girl I lived in Bangor WI, and just up the street from my school was a large beautiful residence - the home of John Bosshard - a big name in that area, and the DA on this case.

So was Ed Gein eliminated as a suspect in this case?

On the topic of this Watson - there was an area outside of La Crosse, actually towards La Farge which had a small African-American population. A settlement that had been there quite a while - pre Civil War, I believe. So although La Crosse was very white and a black man would have been very conspicuous, it is possible that Watson could have had family in the area.

joellegirl
11-10-2005, 10:22 AM
Hi all -

This is a fascinating case. My mother's maiden name is Hartley, and she grew up about 2 counties away from La Crosse. I will have to ask my parents about this case. Also - we have family land near La Farge. Does anyone happen to know what the confession said about the location? It's deer hunting season again, which seems to be the time when missing people are found. Incidentally, La Farge is now home to quite a large organic farming operation - Organic Valley. Oh - and one more strange connection - as a little girl I lived in Bangor WI, and just up the street from my school was a large beautiful residence - the home of John Bosshard - a big name in that area, and the DA on this case.

So was Ed Gein eliminated as a suspect in this case?

On the topic of this Watson - there was an area outside of La Crosse, actually towards La Farge which had a small African-American population. A settlement that had been there quite a while - pre Civil War, I believe. So although La Crosse was very white and a black man would have been very conspicuous, it is possible that Watson could have had family in the area.

Welcome!

From what I understand LE knows the house that is in question and the location of where these men said Evelyn is buried. I'm not sure if they know the exact location, or just an area. They are keeping this all quiet for now. According to the article I posted a link to in an above post, one of the people originally invloved in the new book went to this house and spoke with the current owner.

Ed Gein has pretty much been eliminated as a suspect. Most of us(including myself) don't believe he was involved, but no one knows for sure completely. When his grisly crimes were discovered in 1957, detectives searched the evidence for any sign of Evelyn but came away believing she wasn't there, and that he was not involved. He also denied involvement, for what that is worth. Anything is possible though, and I'm not sure if he has been "officially" eliminated.

That is interesting about the small African American community near LaCrosse. I remember reading about the "negroid" hair as well but never saw anymore about it. Sometimes I think LE should take another look into these leads they once eliminated. But I realize they barely have time for a new lead, let alone a very old one that was eliminated.

Maybe your mother could be related to Evelyn, though from internet searches Hartley appears to be a common last name, there are even other Evelyn Hartleys out there. Her family is not originally from La Crosse but they could still be related in some way.

I hope someday LE will let the locations in LaFarge be known. I'm up in La Crosse one or twice a year visiting family, and these locations would be interesting to see.

I guess we just have to wait and see if anything more comes of this LaFarge story.

Ang50
11-10-2005, 10:40 AM
Thank you for the link to that story - I will talk to my father about the names mentioned. I sure wish my grandpa was still around, he would probably have something to say about all these guys. I very much wonder what their reputation was around the area - liars, storytellers, or if the tale is likely to be true.

And - even as recent as last year, a large area around La Farge was flooded. We were up during that time and had to take different roads b/c the water was so deep. If Evelyn was buried on a floodplain, definitely her body could be gone by now. AND - back around that time, there was a big push to create a man-made lake in that area. If someone had been smart, they would have buried her in the area that was planned for the lake. Once flooded, her bones would have never been found.

joellegirl
11-10-2005, 11:19 AM
Thank you for the link to that story - I will talk to my father about the names mentioned. I sure wish my grandpa was still around, he would probably have something to say about all these guys. I very much wonder what their reputation was around the area - liars, storytellers, or if the tale is likely to be true.

And - even as recent as last year, a large area around La Farge was flooded. We were up during that time and had to take different roads b/c the water was so deep. If Evelyn was buried on a floodplain, definitely her body could be gone by now. AND - back around that time, there was a big push to create a man-made lake in that area. If someone had been smart, they would have buried her in the area that was planned for the lake. Once flooded, her bones would have never been found.

I've read about the area being a flood plain as well, and how that is the reason why even if they find where she was buried, she may no longer be there, which is frustrating. The article mentioned that the scent of the body could still be in the nearby trees though, which is interesting.

Even though the bones are likely scattered and there may not even be any bones left due to the passage of time and conditions of the area,I hope maybe someday a hunter(or someone) will come across a skull, or some small bone.

It seems these men were well known around town. Your grandfather may have known of them. Let us know if your father has ever heard of them.

I really hope she wasn't washed away. It would be nice to see her get a proper burial if she is ever found.

Usher737
11-10-2005, 02:47 PM
This whole LaFarge story sounds quite believable to me. The articles of clothing were found on Rt 14 ( bloodied panites, bra-thought to be Evelyn's, bloodied jacket and shoes-thought to have been abductor's) . To go to LaFarge from LaCrosse one would start out taking RT 14.

That is compelling evidence in favor of the confession.

The article mentions one of the men either knew or knew of Evelyn and knew she was babysitting that night. I wonder if he saw her walking home from school in the days leading up to the abduction and started stalking her, or maybe he worked odd jobs in that new neighborhood and had seen her when she babysat for the Rasmusen's that summer. All accounts say Mr Rasmusen picked up Evelyn from her home that night and drove her to his house. Maybe these men followed them.

Or maybe these men were after the Rasmusens' regular babysitter....

That is the part that got me the most intrigued! How did these men know Evelyn ? Could one of them have had a crush on her? Also, where did the blood outside the home come from. It sounds like she was kept alive until some time later at that farmhouse.

joellegirl
11-10-2005, 03:17 PM
That is the part that got me the most intrigued! How did these men know Evelyn ? Could one of them have had a crush on her? Also, where did the blood outside the home come from. It sounds like she was kept alive until some time later at that farmhouse.


LE seems to believe the blood outside the Rasmusen home was Evelyn's .Though today we could know for sure with DNA.If they ever dig up the graves of these men they could find out if their blood was at the scene as well. It looks like Evelyn was badly injured at the house and may have been unconscious or barely conscious as they took her away, but still alive.

The blood was type A which was the same as Evelyn's and that is as far as they could go with it in 1953.


It's hard to say if these men really knew her or not. I'm guessing they could have seen her walking down the streetor something and decided to stalk her. Or maybe they knew someone who knew her. Since they were veterans (not sure if all three were) I'm figuring they were quite a bit older than Evelyn in 1953 and not in her circle of friends. Plus they lived almost an hour away, so it's not likely they knew her from church or something like that.

I'm just guessing here of course.

georgiagirl
11-10-2005, 03:39 PM
I have searched Amazon, Borders, BN....Where can I get it??

Lisa

joellegirl
11-10-2005, 03:46 PM
I have searched Amazon, Borders, BN....Where can I get it??

Lisa

You can buy it by contacting Susan Hessel (author) at shessel3248@charter.net

It is a self published book so I think it is only available by contacting her at this point.

Hope this helps!

mysteriew
11-10-2005, 06:10 PM
In regards to the blood found on the neighbors garage, etc.
Depending on where it was found on the garage I can think of two scenarios that might fit.
1) She was attacked and cut inside the house, but managed to break away and run. She ran outside and was attemping to run to the neighbor's home, when they caught up with her. She may have leaned or brushed up against the garage as she went.
2) She was attacked and cut inside the house, but managed to get away and ran outside. She may have tried to hide, and leaning against the wall while trying to do so.
Both instances could be the reason the neighbor heard such a piercing scream. If the scream had occurred inside the house the neighbor would have heard it as muffled, instead of piercing. But a scream from outside, may have very well been piercing.

shadowangel
11-10-2005, 07:32 PM
Possibly Evelyn was placed into the basement while her attacker(s) were deciding to ransack the house and she herself tried to escape out the window using the ladder, but was caught escaping and further subdued? Or she ran to the basement in an affort to escape and was caught in the process of going out the window?

Were the doors locked by key locks or other means such as deadbolts?

shadowangel
11-10-2005, 08:20 PM
The ladder should have been had a wealth of fingerprints and other forensic evidence. Is it known if it was removed as evidence, and is still in police possession?

Marilynilpa
11-11-2005, 09:11 AM
In regards to the blood found on the neighbors garage, etc.
Depending on where it was found on the garage I can think of two scenarios that might fit.
1) She was attacked and cut inside the house, but managed to break away and run. She ran outside and was attemping to run to the neighbor's home, when they caught up with her. She may have leaned or brushed up against the garage as she went.
2) She was attacked and cut inside the house, but managed to get away and ran outside. She may have tried to hide, and leaning against the wall while trying to do so.
Both instances could be the reason the neighbor heard such a piercing scream. If the scream had occurred inside the house the neighbor would have heard it as muffled, instead of piercing. But a scream from outside, may have very well been piercing.
I think that Evelyn was subdued inside the house after a struggle, possibly at knifepoint. Since there was little if any blood inside the house, I don't believe she was seriously injured at first. Once she was outside, Evelyn began screaming and was silenced by the kidnapper(s) - I think a knife was the weapon, and Evelyn was either stabbed or badly cut, accounting for the blood found outside the home. As for the blood on the neighbor's house, I don't really have a good explanation for that.

joellegirl
11-15-2005, 11:27 AM
I think that Evelyn was subdued inside the house after a struggle, possibly at knifepoint. Since there was little if any blood inside the house, I don't believe she was seriously injured at first. Once she was outside, Evelyn began screaming and was silenced by the kidnapper(s) - I think a knife was the weapon, and Evelyn was either stabbed or badly cut, accounting for the blood found outside the home. As for the blood on the neighbor's house, I don't really have a good explanation for that.

Interesting scenerios everyone.

About the blood on the neighbor house/garage, one of my guesses is as she was staggering she brushed up against the buildings. Or as they were carrying/and or supporting her, she fell against the buildings momentarily. Also maybe as they were rushing away and carrying her they knocked her against the buildings, causing more injury. Then again the maybe the blood was from her previous wounds and got on the buildings as her hand dragged past while being carried. Some accounts say it was a splash of blood, while others describe it as more of a line of blood and looked like some one's bloody hand dragged across it.

The police must have crime scene pictures of this. They would be interesting to see.

Marilynilpa
11-15-2005, 12:19 PM
Interesting scenerios everyone.

About the blood on the neighbor house/garage, one of my guesses is as she was staggering she brushed up against the buildings. Or as they were carrying/and or supporting her, she fell against the buildings momentarily. Also maybe as they were rushing away and carrying her they knocked her against the buildings, causing more injury. Then again the maybe the blood was from her previous wounds and got on the buildings as her hand dragged past while being carried. Some accounts say it was a splash of blood, while others describe it as more of a line of blood and looked like some one's bloody hand dragged across it.

The police must have crime scene pictures of this. They would be interesting to see.
In the book you have, are there any pictures that show you how close together the houses are? I'm trying to picture the scenarious you listed, and they make sense if the houses were fairly close together. I can see her staggering in an effort to get away, or brushed up against the house as she was carried past it, if the houses aren't too far apart.

Have you made any attempt to get reports or other information from the police department about this case? Also, the author of the Evelyn Hartley book obviously had access to some police documents - do you know how she can be contacted to see if she would share that information with us?

joellegirl
11-15-2005, 01:36 PM
In the book you have, are there any pictures that show you how close together the houses are? I'm trying to picture the scenarious you listed, and they make sense if the houses were fairly close together. I can see her staggering in an effort to get away, or brushed up against the house as she was carried past it, if the houses aren't too far apart.

Have you made any attempt to get reports or other information from the police department about this case? Also, the author of the Evelyn Hartley book obviously had access to some police documents - do you know how she can be contacted to see if she would share that information with us?

Yes, from pictures of that time (in the book)and seeing the neighborhood myself recently the houses are very close together. Picture your typical 1950's subdivision with mostly ranch homes. It appears Evelyn was dragged through backyards adjacent and behind the Rasmusen home. Then past the detached garage of one home then into it's backyard then past the side into front and to the street.It was kind of a diagonal-kiddy corner type path. All the houses kind of made a rectangle, with houses on one street, then up the side on another street, then directly behind each other and around again. I hope that makes sense! The Rasmusen home is on a corner, with houses to the side and behind at that time. There wasn't a house on the side of the open basment window, it was an empty lot at the time. Today all the lots are filled.

I've haven't called police as I don't feel I have any new info that they haven't heard already. They say they get lots of calls. I live too far away to just stop in. Though on our next trip up there maybe I can stop by and ask some questions. Not sure if they will even talk to me or show me anything as I am not writing a book or anything, and am just another average citizen interested in the case.

Marilynilpa
11-15-2005, 02:24 PM
Yes, from pictures of that time (in the book)and seeing the neighborhood myself recently the houses are very close together. Picture your typical 1950's subdivision with mostly ranch homes. It appears Evelyn was dragged through backyards adjacent and behind the Rasmusen home. Then past the detached garage of one home then into it's backyard then past the side into front and to the street.It was kind of a diagonal-kiddy corner type path. All the houses kind of made a rectangle, with houses on one street, then up the side on another street, then directly behind each other and around again. I hope that makes sense! The Rasmusen home is on a corner, with houses to the side and behind at that time. There wasn't a house on the side of the open basment window, it was an empty lot at the time. Today all the lots are filled.

I've haven't called police as I don't feel I have any new info that they haven't heard already. They say they get lots of calls. I live too far away to just stop in. Though on our next trip up there maybe I can stop by and ask some questions. Not sure if they will even talk to me or show me anything as I am not writing a book or anything, and am just another average citizen interested in the case.
Thanks for answering my question about the houses. I figured they were pretty close together, most houses built in the 50's were. So it makes sense that the blood could have come from Evelyn either staggering over to the house, or brushing up against it as she was carried past. Or it could even have come off of one of the kidnappers, who had her blood on him.

I've found that sometimes writing a police department works wonders in opening doors. There is one very cold case I am interested in, and I did some research and located the name of someone in the records department. I wrote her a letter, and she responded by telephone to me within a couple of days. Unfortunately she had nothing for me as all file materials relating to the case had long been destroyed, but in the case of Evelyn, I'm sure the file materials are still around.

shadowangel
03-16-2006, 08:40 PM
Found something in the archives that I found interesting...

On October 30th of 1956, 16-year old Judy Rodencal of Auroraville, WI, disappeared after leaving home to catch the school bus. She never boarded the bus.
Local law enforcement began a large-scale search of the area. Bloodhounds, brought in from La Crosse, traced her scent to a nearby creek. Judy's socks and handkerchief had been found on a bridge about a mile from her home.

On the evening of November 1st, Edgar Timm, a local farmer, found Judy unconscious on his doorstep. An investigation revealed that Judy had apparently been staying in a barn on the farm. She was fuly clothed, though barefoot. She could relate no details of what had happened to her. She was taken to a local hospital, where she was treated for shock and exposure. Other than scratches to her legs, there appeared to be no signs of injury or violence.

Judy bears a resemblance to Evelyn. Both are of similiar height and weight, with brown hair and blue eyes, even the hairstyles in the articles reporting their disappearances are similar...

With no further evidence, and Judy unable to reveal any details of what had happened to her, the sheriff closed the case on her mysterious disappearance.

joellegirl
03-16-2006, 10:57 PM
That is interesting, thanks for sharing it. I wonder how close that little town is to La Crosse. Is it in Newspaper Archives? I wish I still has my subscription so I could see her picture.

As for Evelyn, I keep hoping we will hear more about the Clyde "Tywee" Peterson tape recorded confession and what supposedly took place in LaFarge, WI. LE said this was their best lead but I haven't heard anything since.

Here is a good article about this(I've posted this before earlier in this thread)..

http:www.jg-tc.com/articles/2004/05/24/news/news09.txt

Richard
03-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Did the investigation consider the possibility that Evelyn might have been taken across the Mississippi River into Minnesota? Over the years, I recall stories about a body being found on one farm or another, but the ones that I recall from way back are not in the Doenetwork or NCMEC files.

Was the FBI involved in the investigation at any point? I would think that it being a possible/likely kidnapping and the proximity of LaCrosse to the state line (Mississippi River), the FBI certainly could have stepped in.

shadowangel
03-17-2006, 07:05 PM
Evelyn's disappearance was huge news nationwide at the time. The FBI and every state and local agency seemingly were involved. Any girl who bore a resemblance to Evelyn was checked out.

joellegirl
03-17-2006, 11:42 PM
Did the investigation consider the possibility that Evelyn might have been taken across the Mississippi River into Minnesota? Over the years, I recall stories about a body being found on one farm or another, but the ones that I recall from way back are not in the Doenetwork or NCMEC files.

Was the FBI involved in the investigation at any point? I would think that it being a possible/likely kidnapping and the proximity of LaCrosse to the state line (Mississippi River), the FBI certainly could have stepped in.

According to the book "Where's Evelyn?" by Susan Hessel, Evelyn's family and residents of La Crosse wanted the FBI to get involved but the FBI refused, saying to local law enforcement they couldn't unless there was definite proof that a state line had been crossed and only up to seven days after the crime. A headline in the LaCrosse Tribune read "FBI REFUSES TO TAKE PART IN HARTLEY ABDUCTION CASE"

This, of course distressed everyone, especially Evelyn's family and they tried to organize to get the law to change but it appears they were not successful. From what I read the FBI said they just didn't have proof Evelyn had been taken out of state and they hoped local authorites would have success in solving the case. It says the FBI were monitoring the case but I'm not sure for how long, and it appears they never did get involved in the past 52 years.

This is too bad because it is possible Evelyn may been taken into Minnesota, or even Iowa which isn't very far from La Crosse either. It is true that Evelyn's story went nationwide and there were several sightings of girls who looked like her but nothing ever came of those stories.

Just a year or so ago there were remains of two females found under the basement of a home in Hokah, Minnesota, which is just across the Mississippi River from La Crosse. Of course law enforcement and many residents thought of Evelyn, and also of a woman who went missing in Hokah in the 1920's. It turned out, I believe, the bones were much older than 50 plus years and believed to be Native American.

Richard
03-18-2006, 01:38 AM
I recall back about 1975 in Hawaii, there was a guy who was believed to be involved in a lot of burglaries and thefts. He was a Navy man, but was living in a house off base with some friends. The Naval Investigative Service did not have jurisdiction to request a Search Warrant of his place, but the NIS agent (like anybody else could have done) did notice a motorcycle parked in the guy's yard - a cycle that the guy had been seen riding.

Checking the Vehicle Identification Number, the NIS agent learned that the bike had been stolen from someplace on the Island. The fact that the motorcycle had been stolen more than 24 hours before gave the FBI cause to get involved simply because there was an assumption that the bike COULD have been driven across a state line within 24 hours. This was, of course nonsense because even if you could drive the motorcycle across the ocean to cross another state line, it would take more than 24 hours!

But this 24 hour rule had become a standardized way of doing business, and because the law was to be applied equally in all states, the FBI entered the investigation (at the request of NIS) and they requested a search warrant. The house was searched and all kinds of stolen items were found. The guy was placed in the brig and charges were referred to trial by court martial.

It would seem to me that the FBI can and does apply the law in whatever way they see fit. In one case, they can pursue a search warrant based on a technicality which allows them to do it, based on the convoluted presumption that the motorcycle might have crossed a state line. Yet in a more serious case involving a missing girl, they won't get involved unless local cops get them absolute proof that she WAS IN FACT taken across a state line.

Richard
08-02-2006, 10:52 AM
Bumping this interesting case up. I drove through LaCrosse twice this past week. Although I did not have time to check out the area, I did think about Evelyn's disappearance.

joellegirl
08-02-2006, 11:56 AM
Bumping this interesting case up. I drove through LaCrosse twice this past week. Although I did not have time to check out the area, I did think about Evelyn's disappearance.

Thanks for bumping Richard. There hasn't been any news at all, which is frustrating. There was all the talk in 2004 of the discovery of the tape recording done in a bar in 1968 in La Farge Wi where this man is practically saying he and some other men murdered her and where she was buried. It was all being investigated but nothing more has been said. Not sure if they are keeping things quiet for now or it just hasn't been pursued any further.

Evelyn was mentioned again in the papers last summer when the class she would have graduated with were in La Crosse to celebrate their 50th class reunion, and the book "Where's Evelyn" by Susan Hessel was pubished.

The author of the book "Where's Evelyn?" did a presentation at the La Crosse Library this past May where she discussed the book and the case. She said it was a great turnout, every seat filled. The interest in what happened to Evelyn is still strong in La Crosse.

We will be in La Crosse in a few weeks and I'm sure I'll drive by the house again. The street is so peaceful, hard to believe what happened there 53 years ago.

KJERVIS
08-05-2006, 05:30 PM
I am joining this thread a little late in the game but here are a few things I was thinking over whilst reading everyone's posts. I dont know how to do multiple quotes on here so here is the best I could come up with as a substitute:


Marilynilpa post #43
7. The kidnapper's tennis shoes were eventually found tossed beside a highway. They were size 12 1/2, and identified as having been worn inside the house where Evelyn was babysitting. A bloodstained denim jacket was also found, along with bloodstained panties and bra, all Type A blood - same as Evelyn's.


Concerning type A blood, there are two type A's an A+ and an A-. A+ are more frequent with an appearance rate of 34.3% of the population or 4 out of 5 people. A- on the other hand is more rare with a frequency of 5.7% or 1 out of 8. Finding clothing with blood on it that was type A doesn’t necessarily mean it was her clothing as type A is the second most popular blood type (following O+).

Richard post #80

The amount of blood sounds like a severe head cut, or possibly a cut artery. Blood which is 4 feet high on a building did not get there by gravity, it was likely pumped out at an angle. A head injury tends to bleed straight downward, soaking hair, eyes, and clothing.

I agree with this statement, however, head wounds tend to bleed profusely. If she had any violent head movement, blood could have been projected sideways or above the wound itself. The only reason I say that she was not wounded by a severed/nicked artery is that bleeding out occurs fairly rapidly through the damaged artery and thus renders the victim incapacitated quickly. The witness (although there has been some debate as to the validity of the statement) claims to have seen two men supporting a girl between them who had the appearance of being intoxicated. This means that she was at least had limited mobility. This wording leads me to believe that she had a very bad head wound more so than a nicked artery as a result of stab wounds.

As for the window, I was thinking of how I would approach such a situation. If I found the only entrance being a basement window I would attempt to enter it. My hubby is 6'4 and wears a size 12 shoe. He is very lean and though he would have to squeeze he could probably worm himself though a 14" window. If there were more than one person involved #1 would go through the window and then look around to find an item (ladder) to help #2 into the window. If the intent was abduction and not burglary I would not go back through the window but used an easier exit such as the self locking door.

Of course Im not a criminal and Im only attempting to conduct a what if in my head. I dont have a criminal mindset which of course is what hinders most of us (hopefully ;) ).

Bargle
10-17-2006, 11:15 PM
1. The shoes. The shoes are referred to here in this thread as being size 12 & 1/2. Inthe chapter on Evelyn's kidnapping in "Getting Away with Murder" they are described as being size 11. This would be more in line with someone able to get through the narrow basement window. Is there some comfirmation of which size is correct out there somewhere?
1a. The mark on the bottom of the shoes is described as circular. I have seen bicycle pedals with curved front and rear sections which would leave a circular indention. It also occurs to me that perhaps they meant 'cylindrical' . If you look at the Whizzer in the following link, you'll see that it has fixed footpegs, not pedals, that would leave a cylindrical impression in a shoe. There's also a circular piece between the engine and the rear wheel that may be an auxiliary footrest.
http://www.geocities.com/whizzer_17044/images/600eng.jpg

2. The jacket. Again, in "Getting Away with Murder", the jacket is described as a 'farm jumper' having had the tail cut off and sewn up with white thread. The jacket originally would come down past the hips of the wearer. If Josephson's deduction of it having belonged to a steeplejack is correct, then he could possibly have sat on the tail, causing it to wear out sooner than the rest of the jacket. This makes me think that perhaps the jacket had been discarded, or given away by the original owner.

3. Ed Gein. When police searched the farm of Ed Gein, among the body parts they found were two vulvas that had come from teenage girls. According to Judge Gollmar's book on Gein, there were no girls of that age buried in the graveyard(s) during the relevant time period Ed robbed graves. Ed may well have murdered two teenage girls, which would put Evelyn into his victim type group.
Judge Gollmar also says that Ed's victim, Mary Hogan, was carried to Ed's car after he killed her, not dragged. Given that Hogan was a large woman (some accounts say she was 200 lbs.) It is highly unlikely that Ed carried her by himself. Gollmar says Ed did have a friend named Gus, that went insane shortly after Hogan's murder. If correct, this would show that Ed had someone he could trust to help him carry out his criminal activities and that he could have had help in kidnapping Evelyn, if indeed, he did it.
Against this, Gollmar's book is not without errors. He gets missing girl, Georgia Jean Weckler's name wrong. He calls her Mary Jane Weckler and implies that she was 15, not 8. He also decribes the car that might have been used to abduct her as white, not dark or black. Gein did own a white Ford that no one had seen him drive, but if it's the wrong color, it may be irrelevant. However, Gein did have a dark colored Ford Which I've found described as both maroon and black, which would fit the description of a dark car. Still, the vulvas found at his house would be from too old a person to have been Georgia's.

Could one of the people that have bought "Where's Evelyn" tell me the price?

Anyway, some things to think about.

joellegirl
10-18-2006, 11:18 AM
The cost of the "Where's Evelyn" book is around $22.00 I believe, and can only be bought from the author and her email is shessel3248@charter.net. I believe the book can also be bought locally around LaCrosse.

There are pictures of the shoes in the book. On the bottom there are circular and triangular indentions, matching perfectly the footprint in the mud around the Rasmussen home.

I was just going to post about Evelyn as the 53rd anniversary of her disappearance is coming up on October 24. I wonder if it will make the local papers. Seems LaCrosse police are too busy with binge drinking college students falling to their demise in the Mississippi River to spend any time on Evelyn's case. I do know it is still an open case with them and they do look into leads, but it has just been so quiet. I wish a break in the case would happen.

Bargle
10-18-2006, 08:48 PM
The cost of the "Where's Evelyn" book is around $22.00 I believe, and can only be bought from the author and her email is shessel3248@charter.net. I believe the book can also be bought locally around LaCrosse.

Maybe as a Christmas present to myself, if no more unexpected expenditures come up. Yeah, right. (sigh)

reportertype
12-06-2006, 12:36 AM
The cost of the "Where's Evelyn" book is around $22.00 I believe, and can only be bought from the author and her email is shessel3248@charter.net. I believe the book can also be bought locally around LaCrosse.

There are pictures of the shoes in the book. On the bottom there are circular and triangular indentions, matching perfectly the footprint in the mud around the Rasmussen home.

I was just going to post about Evelyn as the 53rd anniversary of her disappearance is coming up on October 24. I wonder if it will make the local papers. Seems LaCrosse police are too busy with binge drinking college students falling to their demise in the Mississippi River to spend any time on Evelyn's case. I do know it is still an open case with them and they do look into leads, but it has just been so quiet. I wish a break in the case would happen.
Joellegirl
Was there anything in the local media for the anniversary? I'm guessing nothing new; I was hoping for some update about that tape.

joellegirl
12-06-2006, 11:44 AM
Joellegirl
Was there anything in the local media for the anniversary? I'm guessing nothing new; I was hoping for some update about that tape.

Hi Reportertype.
No, nothing at all was mentioned on the anniversary . I was hoping there would be something in the paper. I have been wondering why there has been no updates on that tape, which was discovered almost three years ago now. From what I have read, the tape mentions the house she was supposedly taken to and the area she was buried . I sure hope they looked into this. I know LE is busy but this is one of, if not the biggest and well known Wisconsin mysteries and many people still want to know "Where is Evelyn?????" LE says it is still an open case and they do follow leads, so I hope they really did look into this. Just wish we could get an update. Even if it is a little tidbit. Just something....

Thanks for posting Reportertype!

joellegirl
05-21-2007, 07:28 PM
For anyone who is still interested in this case (I am and always will be, just wish there would be some break in the case, it is so quiet lately), but I saw on ebay someone is selling "Where's Evelyn" and in the listing is some pics from the book, including one of the livingroom where one can see Evelyn's glasses and shoe and blood stains(or dirt). For those of you who did not buy the book you might be interested in some of the pictures. I read my book from time to time and wish I could think of some new angle that could maybe just maybe help solve this cold case.

I had trouble linking the auction so just go to ebay and in the search box put 280115356310 and the listing should come up. Scroll down for pics of the book. Not sure how long the listing will be up.

MaryLiz
05-22-2007, 07:45 PM
For anyone who is still interested in this case (I am and always will be, just wish there would be some break in the case, it is so quiet lately), but I saw on ebay someone is selling "Where's Evelyn" and in the listing is some pics from the book, including one of the livingroom where one can see Evelyn's glasses and shoe and blood stains(or dirt). For those of you who did not buy the book you might be interested in some of the pictures. I read my book from time to time and wish I could think of some new angle that could maybe just maybe help solve this cold case.

I had trouble linking the auction so just go to ebay and in the search box put 280115356310 and the listing should come up. Scroll down for pics of the book. Not sure how long the listing will be up.

I want to buy this book but unfortunately can't afford it right now. The listing on eBay is in a store and those usually stay on for 30 days at a time. If it isn't sold in that time period, some people will have it automatically renewed to run for another 30 days. I'm hoping to be able to purchase the book sometime next month. Thanks for putting the link on here so I can watch it on eBay. If it sells on there before I can buy it, I will e-mail Susan Hessel for a copy. I'm very much interested in this case and have been for a long time so I will definitely buy the book when I can.

joellegirl
10-24-2007, 11:48 AM
Yes, it's me again bumping for Evelyn. Fifty-four years ago this evening she vanished into the darkness. The LaCrosse Tribune has not mentioned anything, which disappoints me. I wish they would do a story, as it may make someone speak up. Another story may be all it takes to get someone, most likely some one very old now, to finally break their silence. The more time goes by that chance lessens.

I'm sure this thread will be bumped to the second page in a day or so. I wish there was something new to report.

Maybe with next year with it being the 55th anniversary the La Crosse Tribune will do another story....

shkyhnds
10-31-2007, 04:49 AM
Yes, it's me again bumping for Evelyn. Fifty-four years ago this evening she vanished into the darkness. The LaCrosse Tribune has not mentioned anything, which disappoints me. I wish they would do a story, as it may make someone speak up. Another story may be all it takes to get someone, most likely some one very old now, to finally break their silence. The more time goes by that chance lessens.

I'm sure this thread will be bumped to the second page in a day or so. I wish there was something new to report.

Maybe with next year with it being the 55th anniversary the La Crosse Tribune will do another story....


Joellegirl, you might find some interest in this link http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/10/30/news/01first.txt

I grew up in LaCrosse, '97 grad of Central, and I had heard a little about this here and there but nothing real indepth. I read this and it sparked my interest. I did a google search and found this thread. I however haven't through reading all 5 pages of this yet, but what I have read I so far I think there are some real interesting possibilities here. I am thinking about doing a little research about this myself. With what I have read so far on here and in the Trib I have come to a theory. But I want some more info. Maybe you could help me out. Did Evelyn walk/ride her bike to the house she was babysitting at or did she get a ride from family or friends? I understand her undergarments were found in Coon Valley along with the size 36 jacket and 12 1/2 shoe. Correct? I know this area fairly well being I live in Westby now. Who found these items and where exactly where were they found in Coon Valley? This is not a big area even now, I'm sure it was much smaller in '52. Also I have been to LaFarge and I know the bar that is mentioned in the article about the tape. LaFarge is also a small area and probably even smaller in '52. This area is still a farming community, so I'm curious as to the possibility of a hired hand commiting this crime. This would partially explain the "swirl" pattern in the shoe found. Possibly. From what I read so far on this mystery, I am convinced this was a random act. However, you can't rule anything out for sure. I was wondering also curious if you have looked into the connection to a unsolved mystery in Vernon county - a murder. If I remember correctly there was a woman that was murdered, maybe in the 70s or 80s, that was from the LaFarge area. Again if I remember correctly.

I will do a little bit of research on this tomorrow. I'm just getting home from work now and want to get a little sleep. Looking forward to discussing this case with you and all that has posted on this thread.

Sorry about the long post but this has really peaked my interest!

joellegirl
10-31-2007, 08:42 AM
Thanks for posting! And thanks for the link. I check the LaCrosse tribune online everday, and missed that article, must have been hiding! Glad to finally see a story again.

To answer your question about how Evelyn got to her babysitting job, she was picked up at her home by Viggo Rasmusen, the father of the family she was to babysit for. The ride was about a mile and half. He brought her to the house, the mother gave Evelyn instructions and the family left with their elder daughter(age 7) to attend the big football game in town at the university. I would guess that law enforcement checked out everyone who was closest to Evelyn. I read her father was even checked and cleared, and I'm assuming Mr Rasmusen was as well since he was one of the last people to see her.

The clothes were found along RT 14, I'm thinking before you come into Coon Valley. I have family in LaCrosse and grew up hearing this story as well. We visit every summer, and sometimes come home via RT 14 and go through all those small towns.

I have been to LaFarge and it sure is rural! Lots of hills and valleys, windy roads. Tons of countryside. If Evelyn is there, she may never be found unless someone knows the exact spot.The fact that the area has been flooded so many times also lessens the chance of her remains ever being found.

I want to write more but have to get going for now.

I'm excitied about this documentary. I've been hoping something like this would come along. I think it is great some young people have taken an interest in this.

joellegirl
10-31-2007, 12:58 PM
To view the trailer of this upcoming documentary on Evelyn go to

http://www.myspace.com/46and2ent

shkyhnds
10-31-2007, 03:19 PM
Yes, it's me again bumping for Evelyn. Fifty-four years ago this evening she vanished into the darkness. The LaCrosse Tribune has not mentioned anything, which disappoints me. I wish they would do a story, as it may make someone speak up. Another story may be all it takes to get someone, most likely some one very old now, to finally break their silence. The more time goes by that chance lessens.

I'm sure this thread will be bumped to the second page in a day or so. I wish there was something new to report.

Maybe with next year with it being the 55th anniversary the La Crosse Tribune will do another story....


Joellegirl, you might find some interest in this link http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/10/30/news/01first.txt

I grew up in LaCrosse, '97 grad of Central, and I had heard a little about this here and there but nothing real indepth. I read this and it sparked my interest. I did a google search and found this thread. I however haven't through reading all 5 pages of this yet, but what I have read I so far I think there are some real interesting possibilities here. I am thinking about doing a little research about this myself. With what I have read so far on here and in the Trib I have come to a theory. But I want some more info. Maybe you could help me out. Did Evelyn walk/ride her bike to the house she was babysitting at or did she get a ride from family or friends? I understand her undergarments were found in Coon Valley along with the size 36 jacket and 12 1/2 shoe. Correct? I know this area fairly well being I live in Westby now. Who found these items and where exactly where were they found in Coon Valley? This is not a big area even now, I'm sure it was much smaller in '52. Also I have been to LaFarge and I know the bar that is mentioned in the article about the tape. LaFarge is also a small area and probably even smaller in '52. This area is still a farming community, so I'm curious as to the possibility of a hired hand commiting this crime. This would partially explain the "swirl" pattern in the shoe found. Possibly. From what I read so far on this mystery, I am convinced this was a random act. However, you can't rule anything out for sure. I was wondering also curious if you have looked into the connection to a unsolved mystery in Vernon county - a murder. If I remember correctly there was a woman that was murdered, maybe in the 70s or 80s, that was from the LaFarge area. Again if I remember correctly.

I will do a little bit of research on this tomorrow. I'm just getting home from work now and want to get a little sleep. Looking forward to discussing this case with you and all that has posted on this thread.

Sorry about the long post but this has really peaked my interest!

shkyhnds
10-31-2007, 03:52 PM
Okay. I am buying into the possibility that it may have been a construction worker, maybe someone that had built homes in the area - being the area was more or less new construction. I did a looking into that jacket, and if it was a steeplejack jacket there is a chance that is was used as a safety devise for shingling roofs.
Also, I am convinced that Mr. X's account of what he saw is legit. I do not believe he in anyway is connected to Evelyn's dissappearance. The police would have checked his allibye and looked into all possibilities at the time. I am also convinced that the abductor isn't local. Times have really changed in 55 years but it's also amazing how they stay the same. When I was growing up I knew where Coon Valley was but rarely visited the area. In fact I was raised in a rural area less than 20 min from Coon Valley and I can remember going there twice in 18 years. My general thought it who ever dumped her clothes along highway 14 knew where they were going and also knew Coon Valley area. I think there is something to that tape that we heard about a few years back. I think I have to get the book and read the transcript of the tape. Too bad this person on the tape is now deceased. It would have made an interesting follow up. I am also curious as to the exact location that this guy describes where he buried Evelyn. There's a chance, depending on where the burial took place, that Evelyn's body wouldn't have been affected by the floods.
I am pretty convinced that the perps entered through the basement and left through the basement. My question is why did they drag her through backyards and beside another neighboring house? Was there vehicle down the street a little? Maybe they knew someone in the neighborhood?
The only conclusion I haven't come to yet is "why". I think this question is the one question that may never be answered. What was the modivation behind this abduction. Sex, greed, personal, or something else, we may never know.
One last thing. I would have to agree with a botched robbery.

Ang50
11-04-2007, 09:28 PM
What's the name of the La Farge bar? What was it called then and is it under a new name?

I've been to Phil and Deb's Town Tap... La Crosse to La Farge is still a good distance. What would a random killer/abductor be doing in LaX in order to come back to La Farge and kill/bury Evelyn?

I keep forgetting to ask my grandma about this story... Every time I drive around in the area I think about Evelyn.

joellegirl
11-06-2007, 05:32 PM
Ang 50,
The name of the bar in LaFarge back then (1968 when the recording was made) was called The Raven, and as of 2003 was called The Getaway.

Ang50
11-06-2007, 10:40 PM
I'll check it out next time I'm there.

joellegirl
02-11-2008, 12:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nuDr_CTI20

The above is a link to a prevue on You Tube. College students in La Crosse WI are working on a film about the Evelyn Hartley case(she went missing while babysitting on Oct. 24, 1953). It was supposedly to be done by now but so far no word on if it is finished. I hope they are still working on it because I for one want to see this.

Link to large thread about Evelyn here on the cold case threads:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27668&highlight=evelyn+hartley

joellegirl
02-11-2008, 12:45 PM
http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/10/30/news/01first.txt

meggilyweggily
02-11-2008, 12:57 PM
I really hope this gets off the ground. I heard about a book, that never was.

joellegirl
02-11-2008, 01:13 PM
Hi Meggillyweggily, the book is out, but has never been widely distributed. "Where's Evelyn" can be purchased through the author at:

http://lessonsfromlife.com/_wsn/pages5.html

I agree it has been hard to find anywhere else.

Hope this film gets of the ground and is easy to obtain. It seems when Evelyn finally gets in the news again one thinks maybe we are getting somewhere then it gets all quiet again.

Edit-link not working I'll try to fix it...

meggilyweggily
02-11-2008, 01:24 PM
That would be http://www.lessonsfromlife.com/_wsn/page5.html

joellegirl
02-11-2008, 01:30 PM
Thanks for fixing the link Meg! Lets hope this film sees the light of day.

meggilyweggily
02-11-2008, 01:37 PM
I think I will buy the book when I get some money -- I'm in rather dire financial straits at the moment though. If I like it I will review it on Charley's missing persons books page: http://www.charleyproject.org/books.html

Hope4Lost
02-11-2008, 02:57 PM
I've never read anything in this thread until today, but my first impression is this:
The perp was very familiar with the neighborhood. He probably lived there. She probably spent some time (hours a couple of days) in that person's basement. She could even be buried near where she was abducted, but not necessarily. I hope that doesn't sound cold, but just starting to read about this, that's what impresses me. I haven't read enough of the thread to see if the cops thoroughly investigated the neighbors, but since the times were so different back then, I bet they took everyone at their word. Back then, folks were always looking for the 'boogeyman' and no 'normal person' could do such a thing. fwiw

gaia227
08-27-2008, 10:46 AM
Bumping this thread out of the Ice Age.

Was thinking about Evelyn the last couple of days and found this article from 2004.
A man who owned a tavern had been recording Clyde Peterson one night at the bar basically because he thought Clyde was a character. Clyde was drunk. Another friend prompted him to tell about Hartley and he did and the bar owner still had the tapes 50 years later. He turned them over the police. Interesting article.

http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2004/05/24/news/news09.txt

The thing about the abduction of Evelyn is that the perps most likely knew she was in that house alone. Could it have been a friend or relative or acquaintence of the Rasmussen's? Who had she told she was babysitting that night?

It is almost pointless to ask because we will never know what happened and from what I have read her sibilings are not interested in pursuing the case.

I wonder if LE has tried to get any DNA from the evidence they did collect at the crime scene i.e. the shoes......that is if the evidence has beens saved all these years.

forthelost
08-27-2008, 02:42 PM
http://www.forthelost.org/calikids/EHartley.doc

joellegirl
08-27-2008, 03:18 PM
Thanks for bumping !

There has been no news at all. There was a group of college students last year who were working on a documentary on Evelyn, and the preview is still on You Tube (just put "Evelyn Hartley" in search box). It looked really good but last spring they decided not to do the documentary which disappoints me. This has happened so many times with this case. Interest is raised again, then nothing.

That is what happened with the LaFarge angle of this case. Articles written, people saying they feel those guys did it, but then nothing.It seems they just can't prove anything with everyone dead. The area has been flooded so many times that it is thought if Evelyn was buried there, it is doubtful they could find her now.

I wish her surviving two siblings would want to be involved but they don't. They won't even leave their DNA in case any trace of Evelyn is ever found. I try not to judge as they have lived with a terrible nightmare all these years, but I just wish they were involved like Annasmom is with her daughter Anna Waters,(missing 1973) Janice Pockett's(missing 1973) sister (who posts here on Cold Cases) and even Beverly Potts(missing 1951) older sister Anita stayed involved with the search for her sister until her own death a year or so ago.

Evelyn is the top case I follow as one can see with all my postings over the years. I'm afraid that even though it is still an open case with the La Crosse PD, and many people still wonder about her, that unfortunately this case will probably never be solved as nothing can really be proved anymore. Evelyn appears to be forever gone, not leaving any trace at all.

shadowangel
08-27-2008, 03:26 PM
Thanks for bumping !

<snip>
Evelyn is the top case I follow as one can see with all my postings over the years. I'm afraid that even though it is still an open case with the La Crosse PD, and many people still wonder about her, that unfortunately this case will probably never be solved as nothing can really be proved anymore. Evelyn appears to be forever gone, not leaving any trace at all.

That's the thing about these cases though..We just never know. Someone out there may be cleaning out an old house and find that one clue that puts it all together...An ME's assistant may look through old files and----
We just never know. I guess that's what keeps me in it, the fact that there's always that chance. And, if nothing else, we honor them by remembering them, not letting them become lost in time.

joellegirl
08-27-2008, 03:31 PM
That is true Shadowangel! There is always hope and there is still a chance. Just the right discovery, or the right person to open their mouth! I just get impatient sometimes! It is good there are people like us and Websleuths who keep these cases alive!

shadowangel
08-27-2008, 03:39 PM
We've seen it many times here...Friends, family members of missing or murderered victims have checked online for information on their loved one and WS has been the only place they've found anything.
As I've said fairly often recently...I believe they speak to us, to our hearts and souls, and ask us to make sure they aren't forgotten.

gaia227
08-28-2008, 10:24 AM
I try to keep the faith too that there is always a chance something will be uncovered. The tapes that surfaced 50 yrs after the fact was totally unexpected but unfortunately didn't go to far. In the case of the missing NY Supreme Court Judge from the 1930's - 2005 a woman on her deathbed revealed and produced a letter stating her husband, a cab driver at the time, abducted and murdered him and buried him out where the NY Aquarium is now. Turns out when construction was being done to build the aquarium they did actually find human bones but for whatever reason they were never processed and they are now lost and it is not proven it was actually him but it sure is a coincidence if it wasn't. You never know, a clue, confession can surface years later. It COULD happen.

I get impatient too and angry that whoever did this and so many other unsolved cold cases got away with it and was able(presumably) to live out the rest of their lives. I try to hold on the (admittedly somewhat romantisized) idea of a deathbed confession. Why not? You are dying, you know you did this horrible thing and there are people out there who want to know. You have nothing to lose. Most likely anyone involved with Evelyn's disappearence is gone. The truth is that probably several people knew what happened to Evelyn and not a single one spoke up.

Joellegirl I understand your frustration with her siblings. Personally I cannot understand not wanting to find out what happened to my sister. Refusing to do something as simple as giving samples of your DNA in case something is found is beyond me. WHY NOT? If her remains are ever found (or for that matter, if they have been found and are labled as a Jane Doe somewhere) how could you not contribute what you could to help identify her? I do not understand and personally I cannot help but judge. It sounds to me like they just want to forget it ever happened and in order to do that (I am just being blatantly honest here) they have to forget that Evelyn existed and by not giving their DNA to identify her possible remains that is what they are doing.

Joellegirl since you followed this as closely as you have do you think there is much credibility to the tapes that surfaced a few years ago?

joellegirl
08-28-2008, 03:47 PM
I think there is something to those tapes. From those tapes, they (law enforcement)even knew the exact house it was believed she was taken, and the possible area where she may have been buried (at least that is the impression I got). Interest was high, then it went down and no word since. Police say they are so backlogged with current cases that it takes time away from this. Come on-this is La Crosse's biggest mystery! Items were found days after the abduction along the road that heads towards La Farge from La Crosse. These items have always been believed to be Evelyn's and the abductors.

Who knows, maybe they are keeping it all secret for now. At least the police haven't closed the case, and seem interested when something comes up, but I wish it would take more priority!

I think if her siblings were involved it could get more attention. Former classmates, friends and random people like us wanting it resolved doesn't seem to get it to be more of a priority. I agree, I don't know why the siblings won't even leave a DNA sample. From what I've heard, they view the book that was written a few years back ("Where's Evelyn?" by Susan Hessel) and any mention of the case, whether it be an newspaper article or a documentary, as an invasion of their privacy and profiting off of their tragedy.

I wish they wouldn't see it like that. We care about what happened to Evelyn, we want this mystery solved.We want justice. Why did these killers get to get away with it? I would think they would want Evelyn to have a proper burial if she were ever found. Again, I hate to judge because maybe the only way they could deal with it was to accept she was gone and nothing could be done about it.

Annasmom (mom of missing Anna Waters) calls us Websleuthers "Search Angels" She really appreciates how we have kept the case alive and have joined in her searching. I just wish Evelyn's brother and sister would see it that way. I realize it has to hurt bad, but I at least think if I were them, I wouldn't want Evelyn forgotten and the search to never end, and appreciate people trying to find answers.

It's not an impossibility that Evelyn may have even been found,but we don't know it because she could be a Jane Doe at some morgue. While the police have lots of evidence (including Evelyn's menstrual pads of all things..) there is nothing like a family member's DNA to help identify any remains.

Maybe the anniversary in October will get a interest going again. I wish those college students would continue with that documentary! They had interviews with Evelyn's classmates and friends, who aren't getting any younger so I hope they at least saved the footage if they ever decide to resume filming.

Hard to believe Evelyn would be turning 71 years old this November.

MaryLiz
02-04-2009, 09:27 AM
I found this brief article from a radio station in Wisconsin, 1410 WIZM, from January 2009. It doesn't say much but says police are getting new tips in the disappearance of Evelyn Hartley. It also talks about a recent book about Evelyn. I don't know if that is Where's Evelyn by Susan T. Hessel or if another book has been released. I thought it was interesting nonetheless that her disappearance was just mentioned recently.

http://www.1410wizm.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=2095

joellegirl
02-04-2009, 10:47 AM
Thanks for posting this! It is good to see it mentioned that Evelyn's case is still being looked into. Hope we hear more soon, it has been quiet way too long.

MaryLiz
02-05-2009, 01:18 PM
Thanks for posting this! It is good to see it mentioned that Evelyn's case is still being looked into. Hope we hear more soon, it has been quiet way too long.

joellegirl, I try to look up her name every now and then to see if there is anything new. This case frustrates me to no end. It just seems to me that it should have been solvable. It seems strange that they keep getting new tips though.

Do you know if there is another book besides Susan Hessel's that they may have been talking about in that article? To my knowledge, that was the only book written about the case. I'm also sorry that the film those 2 guys were making didn't pan out. :(

joellegirl
10-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Bumping for Evelyn on the 56th anniversary of her disappearance. Wish there were some news....

Bargle
10-24-2009, 08:37 PM
Thanks for the reminder, JoelleGirl. There's another Evelyn Hartley thread here I'm going to bump up as well. Here's a link.
Book on Evelyn Hartley 1953 Disappearance Coming Out This Fall - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Bargle
10-24-2009, 08:39 PM
Bumping this for the anniversary of Evelyn's attack.

theforgotten
10-27-2009, 08:18 AM
Bumping!!

MaryLiz
10-27-2009, 09:04 AM
Bumping original thread on Evelyn Hartley.

joellegirl
10-29-2009, 12:44 PM
YouTube - Evelyn Trailer

I think I have mentioned this link before on one of the Evelyn threads but here it is again. These college students were working on a documentary about two years ago, but like everything else with this case, it looked like we were getting somewhere then it was all dropped. I hope they kept the footage, especially the interviews with Evelyn's friends and classmates. They won't be around forever, and the chance of talking to someone who knew her gets less and less every year.

MaryLiz
10-29-2009, 01:25 PM
YouTube - Evelyn Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nuDr_CTI20)

I think I have mentioned this link before on one of the Evelyn threads but here it is again. These college students were working on a documentary about two years ago, but like everything else with this case, it looked like we were getting somewhere then it was all dropped. I hope they kept the footage, especially the interviews with Evelyn's friends and classmates. They won't be around forever, and the chance of talking to someone who knew her gets less and less every year.


Thanks for posting that link again, joellegirl. I remember when you posted it before, I bookmarked it and watched it occasionally, but when it became clear that it wasn't going to be followed through on, I deleted it from my favorites. I wonder why they dropped it? Probably couldn't get financing. But it's a shame because the footage is very compelling and it would have been a very good documentary.

scriptgirl
10-29-2009, 03:41 PM
Why would cops have Evelyn's menstrual pads?

joellegirl
10-29-2009, 05:50 PM
I guess to get blood type? Did they know about DNA then? I think that is why they still have them today.

scriptgirl
10-29-2009, 06:04 PM
I also don't get why the people on that tape talking about Evelyn's disappearance in the Raven weren't arrested.
Do you think there is any connection to this case and that of the Grimes sisters?

joellegirl
10-30-2009, 12:37 AM
Good question about the Grimes girls. Similar ages, four years later, in the Midwest. Hard to say. What is strange about the Grimes girls is they appeared to have died of hypothermia, no wounds or signs of violence. It sounds as if they were kept for awhile. Very sad.

About those guys on the tape made in 1968 at the Raven bar, I wish the guy who made that tape would have said something to authorities at that time, it may have gone somewhere. I believe I read somewhere LE did poke around La Farge at some point in the late 1960's, it seemed they did have a tip or a feeling but it looks like they didn't push things and nothing came of it. Ugh...I think there were maybe some chances it got close (to getting some answers) but for some reason or another the right questions weren't asked, or they didn't search enough....

I was reading about the solving of the Boulder Jane Doe, and how Harvey Glatman is thought to be her killer. I wonder if he was in La Crosse that October night in 1953. Small chance, but I wonder if it was ever looked into or even thought of.

scriptgirl
10-30-2009, 01:11 PM
That isn't really Harvey's MO, to take someone like that and I think he was kind of a short guy. Plus, he was big on using ropes to bind his prey.

joellegirl
10-30-2009, 06:21 PM
You're right, it really isn't Harvey's MO. It really does sound like it was these guys from LaFarge, but if I remember correctly they are all dead, and people who knew them are dying off too. Still, the secret could have been passed on and whomever may know is remaining silent. I wonder how much they did search the property of the house they believe she was taken to. I so wish for an update on all this...

scriptgirl
11-02-2009, 11:35 AM
Me too. Some think Ed Gein was mixed up in it.

scriptgirl
11-18-2009, 03:53 PM
Here is a link from the La Crosse library that has articles about the case on it

http://lplcat.lacrosse.lib.wi.us/digitalproject/hartley.htm

Richard
11-19-2009, 09:43 AM
Evelyn Hartley Missing, 15,
Missing since October 24, 1953, from La Crosse, Wisconsin
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: November 21, 1937
Age at Time of Disappearance: 15 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 126 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blue eyes; brown, straight hair. Hartley wears eyeglasses, but did not have them on when she disappeared.
Clothing: She was last seen wearing size 16 red denim White Stag jeans, a size 34 plain white Ship n' Shore blouse, and white bobby socks.

Circumstances of Disappearance

Hartley, a 15-year-old Central High School student disappeared October 24, 1953, from the home of a La Crosse State College professor where she was baby-sitting. She was supposed to call her parents during the evening but did not. Her father tried to call several times that day and never got an answer. He became worried and went to the house to check on his daughter.

Hartley's father found all the windows in the house locked except a basement window in the back. Bloodstains were found around that window and in the grass of the yard, and there was a bloody handprint on the side of the house next door. The furniture inside the living room was disarranged.

Hartley's eyeglasses, which were broken, and one of her shoes were on the living room floor. Her other shoe was found in the basement. There was no other trace of Hartley inside the home. The twenty-month-old girl she had been baby-sitting was found unharmed, sleeping in her crib.

Tracker dogs traced Hartley's scent as far as the street, leading authorities to believe she had been taken away in a car. They believe she disappeared at approximately 7:15 p.m. She never was found though there was an intensive search. Foul play is suspected.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

La Crosse Police Department
608-785-5962
Or
FindEvelynHartley.org

Source Information:

La Crosse Tribune
FindEvelynHartley.org
The Charley Project
The Doe Network: Case File 1388DFWI

LINK:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1388dfwi.html

gaia227
11-19-2009, 11:00 AM
I guess to get blood type? Did they know about DNA then? I think that is why they still have them today.


They did not know about DNA in 1963 but they could have determined her blood type through the pads and used that to match with any other blood they found on the scene to try and verify the blood was most likely Evelyn's.

MaryLiz
12-02-2009, 02:30 PM
They updated Evelyn's profile on Charley Project today.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hartley_evelyn.html

joellegirl
12-02-2009, 03:03 PM
Thanks for posting .I don't see what is updated, but maybe it is because I have studied her disappearance inside and out. One thing all the missing sites say is that her father tried to call several times "that day". Actually it should read "that evening" as she was not babysitting until 7pm, she hadn't been there all day.. I'm being picky I know. Good to see her case moved up and on the updates, feels like it isn't lost and forgotten....

MaryLiz
12-02-2009, 03:34 PM
Thanks for posting .I don't see what is updated, but maybe it is because I have studied her disappearance inside and out. One thing all the missing sites say is that her father tried to call several times "that day". Actually it should read "that evening" as she was not babysitting until 7pm, she hadn't been there all day.. I'm being picky I know. Good to see her case moved up and on the updates, feels like it isn't lost and forgotten....

Those little details they mess up drive me nuts too sometimes. I'm not sure what was updated either, unless it was that she added the part about Evelyn's brother dying of polio before she disappeared. I don't remember reading that before. I try to put any updates on here though because it brings her case back up to the first page of the Cold Case thread. :)

scriptgirl
12-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Um, where did they get the pads from?

joellegirl
12-02-2009, 05:20 PM
I'm guessing they got the pads from her garbage, unless one was found with her underwear too. So personal.....

scriptgirl
12-02-2009, 05:23 PM
Ugh. Was that usual police procedure?

scheie
01-10-2010, 12:19 AM
I was born in LaCrosse and my grandparents were close friends of the Hartley's, my grandfather being a chemistry professor at the University.
My grandparents (Mr & Mrs Lawrence Rowe), along with the Hartleys, the Campbells, and others I can't remember, formed a pot-luck "supper club" that met regularly - and this is how I know and remember the Hartleys.
I can say they were both exceptionally pleasant, charmingly funny and sweet natured.
No one in my family, or anyone, ever mentioned or discussed Evelyn in front of them. I was told they had accepted the fact that she was dead and her body would never be found. They had lost another child earlier to polio, which from other stories I have been told, was another entire nightmare affecting many families and spreading fear throughout La Crosse. So the loss of a child was something they were already unfortunately familiar with.
I also know that there was extensive investigation and searching for Evelyn (or her body) at the time, and the Hartleys were vigorously involved - and that any attempt to portray the Hartleys as being disinterested, or no longer being interested in continuing the investigation, is to discredit their need for closure in mourning the loss of their daughter and moving on with their lives. I also understand that the event generated significant fear throughout the city, which remained for sometime.
Regarding rumors of what happened that night, I have heard the following theory discussed by my family: The assailant(s) were let into the house by Evelyn under false pretense of car trouble, students looking for Prof. Rasmussen, or some other sympathetic story. Evelyn was smart enough to be aware of potential danger, but kind, and it was believed that appealing to her desire to be helpful would have worked as a way of getting inside the house. It was strongly felt that Evelyn did not know the attacker(s). At some point after this an attack occurred inside the house. Evelyn looses one shoe escaping, and unable to get out of the house (or in an effort to keep the assailant(s) away from the infant), flees (or falls) down the stairs to the basement. Another fight occurs in the basement, either before, or while, Evelyn is trying to escape through the basement window. It is at this point that she is screaming and neighbors look outside and see nothing. She escapes out the basement window (possibly with stab wounds in her back and legs), and is disoriented, rapidly losing blood, possibly about to faint or lose consciousness, she steadies herself from falling leaving a bloody handprint on a house, while she zig-zags across the yards. The attacker(s) leave the house, and pursue and capture her. She is seen by a witness being taken by two people to a car and then being driven from the area. The Gein rumors were frequent - but there were also rumors that this was an act of one or two male college students engaged in a random rape attack, fraternity hazing stunt, or some such that spun disastrously out of control and ended in murder.
Anyway, I stumbled across this discussion and thought members might be interested to hear this...

joellegirl
01-10-2010, 02:03 PM
Thanks so much for this interesting insight to the case.

I said in postings that I hated to judge the family and I assumed they had to accept she was gone and move on, which I completely understand. I was just trying to point out that those of us who are interested in the case are not in it for profit or some thrill. We truely want to see it solved and feel if they would let their DNA be taken it could help. Again, I understand them just not wanting to even do that as for themselves to go on and live a normal life they had to believe she was gone would would never be found. I can see how hanging on to it and forever wondering could make themselves crazy. So if I came across the wrong way I am so sorry. I really feel for them and having to have had deal with this all these years.

Again thanks so much for posting and please post more if you can think of anything. Personal insight like this is very helpful.

punklove
04-06-2010, 12:34 AM
Since it seems highly unlikely that anyones plan would involve attempting to pull the victim through such a tiny window in such an awkward place. The basement window is quite high and requires a ladder to get to which would be nearly impossible to get out of while attempting to also restrain or remove the victim - it you are attempting to pull yourself up and out of a window like that it would require both arms.

If the person attempted to push her out of the window first, there would be time for her to run to the neighbors house while he was trying to get out of the window. If he tried to get out of the window first not only would it leave him vulnerable for a few seconds (his top half out of the window, bottom half still in house) which would make it possible for her to run up the stairs and call the police or to run out of the home. OR she could grab something nearby and disable him by hitting his legs hard, then running to call the police.

It simply doesnt make sense that someone would attempt to remove someone in that manner, unless it was the only way out. Of course there could have been two intruders, but that seems unlikely as well because there was only one set of foot prints outside of that window - one would assume that if there were two intruders there would be two sets of foot prints somewhere outside of the home.

Some theories:

1) Did someone (she knew or didnt know) ring the doorbell and was able to come inside by being invited, or being forced?

2) Could this person have been attempting to rob a house and wasnt aware anyone was home at the time? It makes sense that he could have thought nobody was home, because the car wasnt at the home. He also could have known the owners of the home and knew that they were going out that night and assumed they were taking the baby and the home would be empty.

He could have run into the Evelyn and decided to lock her in the basement while he was trying to figure out what to do with her now that she saw what he looked like, then deciding that it was too risky to let her live because she could ID him, decided to kill her. During the original struggle her shoe came off, it makes sense that since they were slippers that the other one could fall off when she was shoved down the steps? Considering that they said that living room showed proof of intense struggle, so you would think that she would still be fighting like mad once the person came into the basement - She could have ran to where the window was attempting to get away from him, got up on the stool attempting to get out and the intruder could have fought to keep her inside, perhaps hitting her head against the window and breaking it causing significant blood loss.

punklove
04-06-2010, 12:49 AM
A few other random thoughts -

Im not attempting to blame the father for any wrong doing, but Im unsure of a few things and hopefully maybe someone can clear them up for me.

1) The father came to check up on her and said that he looked walked around the home and saw her glasses and shoe on the floor.. He walked around and saw that the basement window was busted and decided to enter the home via that broken window, yet when asked why he didnt call the police from within the home once he got in he said he didnt want to touch the phone so that police could get fingerprints off of it. Why would he assume that there would be any worthwhile fingerprints on the phone? If he was worried about messing up fingerprints why would he enter the home via the same method the intruder had to have used? Why would he not go directly to the house next door and call the police instead of climbing into the home?

2) Newspapers say that the father didnt see the 'pool' of blood by the window because it was dark, why was there no blood on him? If there is a 'pool' of blood all by the window, wouldnt he have to have gotten at least a little blood on his clothing while climbing in the window?


http://books.google.com/books?id=j9RTJEGSoWIC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=evelyn+hartley+blood&source=bl&ots=bNuuY6GHMO&sig=w_0f4l9qo66js_qYNhAIcSv4o_U&hl=en&ei=K7y6S7DACZLK8wSqpfj2Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBMQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=evelyn%20hartley%20blood&f=false

According to this book, the baby was also found in the basement - in a crib.

How strange is it that Ed Gein was only a couple blocks away at the time of this crime???

PFF
04-10-2010, 05:59 PM
suspect?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein

{WARNING GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF VICTIUMS}
Suspect in at at lest three other disappearances...

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/weckler_georgia.html

related thread
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27668&highlight=Gein

joellegirl
05-10-2010, 02:29 PM
Just want to make a correction. The book that says the baby was in the basement is an error. The baby was in her crib in a bedroom on the main level of the home. I don't have the proof of this handy, but after studying this for years I have read many times the baby was not in the basement.

Marilynilpa
05-11-2010, 04:49 PM
suspect?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein

{WARNING GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF VICTIUMS}
Suspect in at at lest three other disappearances...

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/weckler_georgia.html

related thread
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27668&highlight=Gein

I know that Ed Gein was ruled out as a suspect, although I cannot recall exactly why. I think there is something earlier on in this thread about that.

This case always intrigues me, especially when I think about the basement window. It just seems like such an awkward way to take someone out of a house. If she were still conscious, she'd probably have been kicking and moving around a lot, making it hard to pull her through the window. If she were unconscious, dead weight would be hard for one person to pull through such a window. I've always felt that there had to be two people involved in this abduction.

This is a true mystery.

Marilynilpa
05-11-2010, 04:59 PM
We began discussing Ed Gein on this thread back in August of 2005, so if any newcomers are interested you might want to check out the posts around that time.

This type of abduction really doesn't fit in with the type of crimes Ed Gein committed. But with a crazy person, I suppose you never can tell.

joellegirl
07-02-2010, 01:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esp5uXuK7o

This is the first of five videos of some older news investigations about the Evelyn Hartley case. They are very detailed, and interview people who were there when it all first happened. If you are interest in Evelyn's case, and have some time, these are worth it to watch. I only wish there were some newer updates.

Marilynilpa
07-02-2010, 08:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esp5uXuK7o

This is the first of five videos of some older news investigations about the Evelyn Hartley case. They are very detailed, and interview people who were there when it all first happened. If you are interest in Evelyn's case, and have some time, these are worth it to watch. I only wish there were some newer updates.

Wow, I've only had time to watch the first video and it was so interesting. Thanks for locating this and putting it on WS.

As I've said several times on this thread, I never have been able to understand why Evelyn was taken out through the basement window. It's evident from the video that the window was not all that large, which is pretty normal for a basement.

My best guess is that someone intending to burglarize the home came in through that window and was startled to find Evelyn in the house. The perp may have thought the house was empty due to the important homecoming game taking place that evening. The fact that the burglar took Evelyn, as opposed to just fleeing when he saw her, makes me think Evelyn might have recognized him. Most burglaries don't result in kidnapping.

Of course, it's always possible Evelyn was the main target, although you would think if that were the case, the perp could have planned a better entry/exit strategy.

I know all of this has been rehashed numerous times in this thread, but I just wanted to put my thoughts down once again!

joellegirl
07-02-2010, 12:01 PM
I'm glad you find them so interesting like me! I was amazed to find them on You Tube. They have been there since January . I don't know how I missed it.
I agree with your points. The only thing though is I remember reading at some point the lights were found on in the house and Evelyn had the radio playing, so I would think the burglar knew some one was in the house, unless the burglar left it that way but I don't think he would have had time with the way it appeared Evelyn was violently taken out of the house.
When you watch the last video #5 it sounds like two men went to the police and thought this farmer they knew may have did it. I wonder if that was the same guy who was talked about more recently who was from LaFarge WI. I have a feeling they were really onto something with the LaFarge angle,but then it got quite again UGH!!! I have driven through the LaFarge area, and it is very hilly, full of trees and remote. Easy place to hide a body. I have also read the area has flooded numerous times, so she could be totally gone if buried there.

Marilynilpa
07-02-2010, 12:45 PM
I'd forgotten about the music being on.

I'll watch the rest of the videos this evening. I'm so glad you found them!

joellegirl
07-03-2010, 07:39 PM
One thing I noticed while driving past the house, looking at pictures of it and seeing the old news footage of the crime scene, is that the house had/has a reverse floor plan. Meaning, unlike most houses, the kitchen and bathroom face the front of the house and the living room faces the back. Bedrooms seem to be in normal spots though. The house has changed a lot since 1953, but if you look closely you can tell it is the same house.When I drove by it the first time I drove right past as I was picturing the 1953 version of the house. I wonder where the basement door was in relation to the living room.
It makes me wonder if the person who did this was lurking in the backyard and saw Evelyn through the livingroom picture window, as opposed to him seeing her from the street. There was evidence who ever did this may have tried to pry open a bedroom window, and a neighbors window, before finding the basement window to gain access to the home . Not sure if any of this matters, but it is just an observation.

MaryLiz
07-05-2010, 07:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esp5uXuK7o

This is the first of five videos of some older news investigations about the Evelyn Hartley case. They are very detailed, and interview people who were there when it all first happened. If you are interest in Evelyn's case, and have some time, these are worth it to watch. I only wish there were some newer updates.

Wow, what a great find, joellegirl. I just had time to watch all five videos and they were very interesting. I agree with Marilyn, and never understood why she was taken out through the basement window since it was so small. I do think though that Evelyn was seen in the house before she was abducted. Especially since you said that the living room faced the back of the house. If they found those size 11 tennis shoe prints in the back yard, then he must have seen her before entering the house.

I think the information about the farmer from the couple mentioned in the last video seemed pretty credible. If only they had come forward immediately after the jacket and tennis shoes were found! Even reporting it 20 years later in 1973 and having the DA dismiss their story was unfortunate, but still, I would have thought when the jacket and shoes were found, the couple would have recognized right away that they might have belonged to the farmer and reported it back in 1953. It's just a shame because that seemed like a pretty viable lead to me.

Thanks again for posting the link to those videos!

Marilynilpa
07-06-2010, 10:16 AM
.
It makes me wonder if the person who did this was lurking in the backyard and saw Evelyn through the livingroom picture window, as opposed to him seeing her from the street. There was evidence who ever did this may have tried to pry open a bedroom window, and a neighbors window, before finding the basement window to gain access to the home . Not sure if any of this matters, but it is just an observation.
This is interesting, I don't believe I've known this before. It could put a different "spin" on things, since Evelyn could have been seen from the backyard by someone lurking there. I always assumed anyone who saw her would have been hanging around the front of the house!

Thanks for that intriguing bit of info!!

joellegirl
07-08-2010, 08:26 PM
I agree it does put a different spin on it. Also, as the neighborhood was very new, there were hardly any trees, so it was wide open. If the livingroom curtains were open, Evelyn could have been seen from quite a distance.

In my online searchings, I have discovered the newsman that put those 5 videos together, died just a few weeks after he put them up on You Tube.

I noticed in the old news crime scene films, there is a number on the couch, and on the wall. There must have been some evidence of the struggle at those places, in addition to the shoes, glasses and mud on the floor.

My current thought on why Evelyn was possibly taken through the basement window is that she ran down there trying to get away, and the perp just decided to exit with her the way he came in. Makes me think there were two men involved, since if Evelyn was pushed out the window, she couldn't run for help as the 2nd man was ready to pounce on her. That is most likely when she let out the screams the neighbors heard. When the one scream was cut short, I'm sure that is when she was hit very hard and bled profusely. Also, the one witness saw two men supporting a woman who appeared impaired near the Rasmusen home, and moments later seen driving away together.. so another clue that more than one man was involved. I'm sure I have mentioned this before, but since I have posted on this thread for 6 years, I kind of forget what I said where.

I'm glad others find these videos interesting as I do.

Marilynilpa
07-09-2010, 04:54 PM
I'm sure I have mentioned this before, but since I have posted on this thread for 6 years, I kind of forget what I said where.

I know exactly what you mean!

I know I've said this several times on this thread, but the aspect of this case that bugs me the most is the basement window. Here are my thoughts:

1. If this was an intentional abduction (as opposed to Evelyn being in the wrong place at the wrong time), the perps most likely planned this in advance. They must have had a car nearby, for one thing. So if this was planned in advance, why pick the basement window as a way in and out of the house? Certainly it would have been easier to enter through the back door which, given the layout of the house, would have led into the living area of the house.

2. If the perps snuck into the house through the basement window and intended to take Evelyn by surprise, I still believe they would have gone out a door, not the basement window. I know it's possible Evelyn fled to the basement to escape them, but this doesn't seem logical to me. It seems she would have tried running out the door where she could get help, instead of into the basement.

It's the danged basement window that seems so out of place for this type of crime. I could understand using that window if it were behind bushes or other protective covering, but it's just out there in the open.:waitasec:

That's why I lean more towards the theory that the perps were taking advantage of the football game to burglarize a home, went in through the basement and were surprised to find Evelyn in the house. If they were locals, and feared Evelyn would recognize them, they may have panicked, struggled with her, knocked her out (maybe even thought they'd killed her) and took her to keep themselves out of trouble.

This is giving me a headache!

I'd truly enjoy your thoughts about this.

joellegirl
07-09-2010, 05:38 PM
I also would think Evelyn would/should have run out a door on the main level as well. Running upstairs or downstairs is never good thing because you become trapped. Yet I see it all the time on those hokey Broadview (ADT etc) commercials...(I hate those commercials-they grate on my nerves!)
I'm just assuming in her moment of panic, maybe the basement door was open(because the perps entered the house that way) and she ran down without thinking. Maybe they had chased her all around the livingroom, they possibly blocking her way to the front door, and at that moment it seemed her only escape..The fact that her shoe was at the foot of the stairs though also makes me think she was dragged down the steps against her will, which would mean the perp(s) intended to exit that way... or the shoe fell off because she fell down the stairs trying to escape...I know it is so confusing!
I can see them entering the home that way as they found the basement window open.They may have tried the doors but found them locked. I remember reading someplace Mr Rasmusen recalled that that window had been open, he had forgot to lock it when he was painting down there..not sure if I remember that right. The thing that keeps me from thinking it was burglary was the lights and radio were supposedly on(how her father found it when he arrived to check on her). I really think they saw Evelyn in there through the window (and with it being night and if the curtains were open it would have been very easy to see her )and went in to get her, possibly to rape but it got out of hand.

I go back and forth with my theories.

Maybe because the house had a different layout the perps got confused as to where the doors were-sounds silly I know. I can see in the old video, the front door the house-the one that faced the street, is easy to see. It is behind the livingroom wall where the couch was against, down a hallway where I believe you would have passed the doorway into the kitchen on one side and the bathroom on the other. From old pics of the house from the air,I think the house also had a side door leading into a small screened in porch area, as opposed to a back door.

I wish I could just go and check the inside of that house!

I'll be back later with more thoughts...

Marilynilpa
07-12-2010, 12:52 PM
This case has me going back and forth like a pendulum - was it a burglary, was it a rape/kidnapping?

The one thing that makes me think it was not an intended rape is, how would the perps know there was no one else in the house? For all they knew, there could have been a 250 pound man with a shotgun sitting in the living room!

But then, the same is true of a burglary - how would they have known there weren't more people in the house?:waitasec:

I think (1) the perps had been watching the house and saw the owners leave, or (2) knocked on the door to see if anyone answered, and Evelyn naively told them she was the babysitter and no one else was at home.

Whatever happened, this poor girl sure fought for her life.

MaryLiz
07-12-2010, 09:17 PM
This case has me going back and forth like a pendulum - was it a burglary, was it a rape/kidnapping?

The one thing that makes me think it was not an intended rape is, how would the perps know there was no one else in the house? For all they knew, there could have been a 250 pound man with a shotgun sitting in the living room!

But then, the same is true of a burglary - how would they have known there weren't more people in the house?:waitasec:

I think (1) the perps had been watching the house and saw the owners leave, or (2) knocked on the door to see if anyone answered, and Evelyn naively told them she was the babysitter and no one else was at home.

Whatever happened, this poor girl sure fought for her life.

I don't think it was a burglary..I could be wrong, of course. But I do think she was being watched, or maybe someone was just watching the houses in the neighborhood and happened to see the Rasmusens leave. After viewing those videos and reading further comments on here, I'm starting to think there was more than one perp as well. For years I thought this was done by just one person. Two people could have gotten Evelyn out of the house much more quickly, even through that small basement window. And I tend to think the girl being supported by two men seen in the neighborhood aftewards was Evelyn and her abductors. You're right, this case makes you go back and forth!

punklove
07-27-2010, 06:57 PM
Wow, what a great find, joellegirl. I just had time to watch all five videos and they were very interesting. I agree with Marilyn, and never understood why she was taken out through the basement window since it was so small. I do think though that Evelyn was seen in the house before she was abducted. Especially since you said that the living room faced the back of the house. If they found those size 11 tennis shoe prints in the back yard, then he must have seen her before entering the house.



These are the only reasons I can think of that would make sense in regards to her being removed via the basement window. My speculation is as follows:

Whomever the person was that came into the home that night saw her through the window or somehow knew that she (or any other girl) would be there alone babysitting that night.

That person got into the home and found Evelyn in the living room (maybe doing her homework or whatever) and a struggle ensued, considering the chaotic crime scene its certain that she fought for her life. Though we dont know the motive I think its very possible that within that fight, the man (assuming hes male) shoved her into the basement and locked/blocked the door in an attempt to keep her from fleeing OR fighting and wasnt aware that the basement window actually opened or that it would have been big enough to get out of.

Considering that one of her shoes were found in the living room and the other in the basement and that there was blood in the basement but none in the living room it seems very likely that she lost the first shoe in the living room during the stuggle (and broke her glasses as well) and the other after being shoved in the basement.

Second speculation:

She was babysitting and heard a noise in the basement and went to check things out, opening the door (or going down the steps to see what was going on) she ran into the intruder and attempted to get away from him, getting as far as the livingroom before he caught her, which would also account for the shoe placement.

According to police reports there as "indications" that she even made it as far as the front door though they dont go into detail about what that indication was. Neighbors also reported hearing a single scream at 7:15 but they dismissed it as children playing.

punklove
07-27-2010, 07:06 PM
I don't think it was a burglary..I could be wrong, of course. But I do think she was being watched, or maybe someone was just watching the houses in the neighborhood and happened to see the Rasmusens leave.

I tend to agree, When her father want to the house to see what was going on he was clearly able to see the entire contents of the living room - he saw her broken glasses, her shoe and the mess that was left after the struggle so that means that anyone else could hae seen the entire live room area as well, which is most likely where she would have been spending most of her time.

Also in regards to the burglary, it doesnt seem that someone would would her with them if their intent was just to rob the house - the blood loss at the scene shows that she was very badly wounded and that apparently whomever did this had no issue with wounding someone so greatly, so why would you take a nearly dead girl with you? What would that benefit them? Also, when the bloody panties and bra were found (exact match to hers) you gotta wonder why someone would take someones panties and bra off if the intent was just to rob someone.

I dunno, I guess I just think that if it was someone trying to rob the place they would leave the body not take a mortally wounded person with them.

punklove
07-27-2010, 07:18 PM
Though I tend to agree Gien had nothing to do with this, I find this coincidence creepy.

"...but the dogs were stopped cold at a spot about 2 blocks later. Apparently, the girl had been forced into a car at that point." (http://books.google.com/books?id=Z_ZDUR7H_QMC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=evelyn+hartley+dogs&source=bl&ots=SGrViCWO__&sig=iOtnwZPRuNpLjdnbgHrYOUiwOq0&hl=en&ei=vWdPTK6rJYOC8gauzKDYDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=evelyn%20hartley%20dogs&f=false)

and..

"Ed Gien..was visiting family 2 blocks away." (http://www.carpenoctem.tv/killers/gein.html)

punklove
07-27-2010, 07:26 PM
I must be having a blonde moment because Ive read this article about 10 times and dont undertand what it means... What chest harness???

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6BAwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qQ8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6526,1471303&dq=evelyn+hartley&hl=en

Apparently this was the first time she babysat for this family in three months, was left there at 6.30pm and several neighbors heard a scream between 7:10-7:30. Seems like such a small time frame.

Im a little confused about the time line of the father (not that I think hes done anything wrong)..

He says he called her until 8:50, got to the home at 9:10 but the 911 call didnt come in until 9:40 - one would assume that he would have ran to call 911 as soon as he saw everything messed up in the living room with her glasses and shoe on the floor OR when he saw massive amounts of blood on and around the basement window, even if he didnt, how long does it take to crawl through a window?

Why not call 911 from the home he was in?


Another note - according to the District Attorney Evelyn was a last minute fill in for a friend of hers, that she hadnt babysat there in over three months. I wonder if there were a reason that she was no longer babysitting for them? Could the regular baby sitter been the intended victim? He was also quotes as saying "The chances are that Evelyn was an accidental victim."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gWgmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nv8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=4240,233659&dq=evelyn+hartley+missing&hl=en

amber1
07-30-2010, 11:20 AM
Although her disappearance, like Beverly Potts, seem old, I have all the faith in the world that they can still be solved-look at Dorothy Gay Howard and the Jeannie Melville cases-so old, but finally solved. The key is that they are not given up on.

Marilynilpa
07-30-2010, 12:51 PM
I dunno, I guess I just think that if it was someone trying to rob the place they would leave the body not take a mortally wounded person with them.

I think that's a very good point against this being a robbery gone wrong.

But it's hard to understand why Evelyn was targeted - if the perp(s) just wanted a girl Evelyn's age for their sexual/deviant reasons, there were certainly easily ways to obtain a victim without all of the hassles of breaking into a home and dragging Evelyn away.

Marilynilpa
07-30-2010, 12:54 PM
Although her disappearance, like Beverly Potts, seem old, I have all the faith in the world that they can still be solved-look at Dorothy Gay Howard and the Jeannie Melville cases-so old, but finally solved. The key is that they are not given up on.

You are absolutely right.

Sometimes the passage of time actually helps - people move on with their lives, their loyalties change, and suddenly they no longer care if they rat out their former husband/boyfriend/friend. Or someone is near death and wants to clear their conscience before they die.

That's why websites like this are important - we keep these cases active!

Bargle
07-30-2010, 08:07 PM
I must be having a blonde moment because Ive read this article about 10 times and dont undertand what it means... What chest harness???

The harness that left an imprint on the discarded cutoff denim jacket that apparently was worn by one of the abductors. It was of a type of safety harness that was worn when working from a boatswain's chair. That type of harness was worn by people working as steeplejacks in the area.

joellegirl
07-31-2010, 01:18 AM
Interesting posts with very good points.

I still think Evelyn was seen though the window, and was a random victim. The perp(s) most likely intended on rape. They may have planned on raping her right there, but she put up such a fight, and maybe they lost their tempers and hit her hard as she tried to escape. Why they continued to take her with them puzzels me, unless they had hopes they could take her elsewhere and rape her. Sounds like something happened along RT 14 as her bra, underwear and one of the perps jacket were found. RT 14 is the way to La Farge, and I believe the stories that came out about her being taken there by these two men is what happened. Somewhere along the way she passed away from her injuries or they killed her. Her remains are most likely in the remote countryside of LaFarge, but since the area floods, it may be hard to ever find her.

I still have hope her case will be solved. She may even still be found. I wish I could know if anyone has ever actively searched the house and surrounding land she was believed to have been taken. From what I have read, they know the exact house! But no news on this in years. Why??

punklove
07-31-2010, 12:37 PM
I think that's a very good point against this being a robbery gone wrong.

But it's hard to understand why Evelyn was targeted - if the perp(s) just wanted a girl Evelyn's age for their sexual/deviant reasons, there were certainly easily ways to obtain a victim without all of the hassles of breaking into a home and dragging Evelyn away.

It seems unlikely that she was targeted - at least not to the point of the person knowing she would be in that home at that time because her being at that home that night was actually a fluke - she was filling in for a friend of hers very last minute, the other girl was the permanent babysitter.

Evelyn was the original babysitter for this family, three months before this happened she stopped babysitting for them, why? Obviously it has to be one of two reasons - either the family no longer wanted her to babysit or she no longer wanted to baby for the family. I would assume it wasnt the family because if they were unhappy with her enough to not allow her to babysit anymore then you wouldnt think they would let her babysit that night.. If you fire someone you certainly arent going to trust your child in thier care.

That makes me wonder what made her stop babysitting for the family, had she gotten in trouble and was no longer allowed to babysit? Had she done something while babysitting that made her parents no longer allow her to babysit, its not known if she was told she couldnt babysit or just decided she didnt want to do it anymore but her father was adamant about it being three months since she babysat.

Just thinking out loud but this is what confuses me -

She filled in for her friend at the very last moment, that means that she, her parents, the couple whos child she was watching and the other girl were the only ones that KNEW evelyn would be at that house that night. She got to the home at 6:30pm and the scream that the neighbor heard was around 7:10 so there was about a 40 minute span from the moment the parents left until the neighbor heard the scream..

The home she went missing from - I have to say I find it quite shocking that as close as the homes are together that nobody really heard anything - one person said they heard a scream but thought it was children, its unusual to me that the person wouldnt be able to tell a playful scream vs a panicked fighting for your life scream but Im sure it happens.


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2414+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&sll=43.787244,-91.216849&sspn=0.01106,0.019205&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2414+Hoeschler+Dr,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+5460 1&ll=43.792411,-91.216435&spn=0,0.019205&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.786889,-91.216417&panoid=sbzzuLxMXCorag0s7hYDpw&cbp=12,220.33,,0,4.51

punklove
07-31-2010, 12:54 PM
I just thought of another possible theory that could explain some of the weird parts of this case:

Could evelyn have snuck a boy over to hang out with her while she was babysitting like so many other girls at that age have done and something went wrong?

This whole crime seems so unsophisticated and careless that it makes more sense to me the person that commited it was young - some of the evidence makes me feel that it was a young person as well.

The shoe print they found had a pattern on it that suggested the person often drove a Whizzer motorbike ( "http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_24DcgVtaIDk/Slz8oWFDD0I/AAAAAAAAAxs/ka-VtO5v_C8/s400/My+Whizzer+Motorbike,+1948+copy.jpg ) which was a popular thing for young men to have then. The man wore a size 10-11 shoe but wore a size medium jacket, which would account for it being a teenage boy.

Also, just the weirdness of the crime scene - the whole basement window thing is odd to me, one of the few things I can think of to make it make sense is this:

She invited the boy over, calling him when she got to the family home (or letting him know when to come) making sure to allow enough time for the parents to be gone.. the boy gets there and whatever happened happens during the violent attack and once he realizes what hes done he tries to cover things up - part of what makes me wonder if this is what happened is this statement:

"But the officers found pry marks on a bedroom window where an intruder tried unsuccesfully to break in. Blood stains were on the ground outside and more blood was found smeared on a neightbor's house and across a nearby garage."

Is it possible that he killed her (or seriously wounded her) THEN attempted to pry open windows to make it look as if someone broke into the home and only then settled on the basement window as it was the ONLY window that you could open from the outside? It seems much more likely to me that the person went outside in an effort to construct a crime scene by opening a window and wiped his bloody hands on the neighbors house and garage either to clean them off a bit or to make it look like evelyn was outside at some point attemping to flee the "intruder".

punklove
07-31-2010, 01:23 PM
Interesting posts with very good points.

I still think Evelyn was seen though the window, and was a random victim. The perp(s) most likely intended on rape. They may have planned on raping her right there, but she put up such a fight, and maybe they lost their tempers and hit her hard as she tried to escape. Why they continued to take her with them puzzels me, unless they had hopes they could take her elsewhere and rape her. Sounds like something happened along RT 14 as her bra, underwear and one of the perps jacket were found. RT 14 is the way to La Farge, and I believe the stories that came out about her being taken there by these two men is what happened. Somewhere along the way she passed away from her injuries or they killed her. Her remains are most likely in the remote countryside of LaFarge, but since the area floods, it may be hard to ever find her.

I still have hope her case will be solved. She may even still be found. I wish I could know if anyone has ever actively searched the house and surrounding land she was believed to have been taken. From what I have read, they know the exact house! But no news on this in years. Why??

On the link I posted of the home (its the exact home she was in when she as taken) that big window in the front had no sort of covering, just a completely open window so its possible someone saw her and decided randomly to break in, I think its quite unlikely thats the case due to several reasons.. The one thing about the window being open is that the person breaking in would of course be able to see her, but thats the porblem - once he came INTO the home, he would be completely out in the open too.. anyone walking by would either notice them in a struggle or notice that the living room was a wreck, it was a busy area with homes very close to each other so if someone randomly wanted to attack/rape someone they would go somewhere else where they would be less likely to be seen or heard.

The biggest issue to me is the actual taking of her - a random person would have no reason to take her, the amount of blood around the window and house proves that Evelyn was either dead or very close to dying at that point - if the person was a random stranger he would have raped her in the home and left because nobody would ever think to tie him to that murder/rape, the person would leave wanting to have as little 'evidence' of her on them so bringing a profusely bleeding dying person with you wouldnt be likely as you would then have to get rid of the body (perhaps being seen by someone) and get the blood stains out of your car (perhaps being seen).

The taking of her when she was either dead or nearly dead to me much more likely suggests someone that was familiar with her and felt that her body would have some sort of evidence on it that could point to them.

The home was searched, but oddly enough the police really werent concerned at first - the officers that came to the home first that night treated it as a typical 'runaway' case and noted that she may have "not been getting along with her parents and ran off with a boy" even though there was an intense sign of a struggle in the living room (rugs messed up and bunched together, house plants knocked over, overturned furniture, her glasses stomped on the floor, one of her shoes.. ect) only a couple hours later did they find the blood and then start to take it seriously.

There is so much about this case that I find dumbfounding - Im not trying to judge anyone (it just seems curious to me - everyone reacts to stress differently) but her mothers behavior seems a little odd.

It seems to me that if your 15 year old daughter is missing from a home and theres blood all over the place that you would attempt to go out and look for her or at the very least go to the home to see things for yourself, attempting to get SOME sort of clue as to what happened to your child - Evelyn's mother had a "restless" night of sleep and went to the home the first time the next morning. They only lived a little over a mile away, you wouldnt have been able to keep most mothers away..

punklove
07-31-2010, 01:32 PM
Ok, last thing! :crazy:

The police department got a lot of criticism for how they handled this case..

They didnt interview several of the neighbors until 2 weeks later and the police officers at the scene didnt think the make sure the evidence was safeguarded - strangers crowded around the home and were touching the home, the areas around the windows, the house and all the surrounding areas and the police didnt stop them.

punklove
07-31-2010, 01:33 PM
Although her disappearance, like Beverly Potts, seem old, I have all the faith in the world that they can still be solved-look at Dorothy Gay Howard and the Jeannie Melville cases-so old, but finally solved. The key is that they are not given up on.

I really hope so, they deserve at least to be found.

punklove
07-31-2010, 02:05 PM
I also would think Evelyn would/should have run out a door on the main level as well. Running upstairs or downstairs is never good thing because you become trapped. Yet I see it all the time on those hokey Broadview (ADT etc) commercials...(I hate those commercials-they grate on my nerves!)
I'm just assuming in her moment of panic, maybe the basement door was open(because the perps entered the house that way) and she ran down without thinking. Maybe they had chased her all around the livingroom, they possibly blocking her way to the front door, and at that moment it seemed her only escape..The fact that her shoe was at the foot of the stairs though also makes me think she was dragged down the steps against her will, which would mean the perp(s) intended to exit that way... or the shoe fell off because she fell down the stairs trying to escape...I know it is so confusing!
I can see them entering the home that way as they found the basement window open.They may have tried the doors but found them locked. I remember reading someplace Mr Rasmusen recalled that that window had been open, he had forgot to lock it when he was painting down there..not sure if I remember that right. The thing that keeps me from thinking it was burglary was the lights and radio were supposedly on(how her father found it when he arrived to check on her). I really think they saw Evelyn in there through the window (and with it being night and if the curtains were open it would have been very easy to see her )and went in to get her, possibly to rape but it got out of hand.

I go back and forth with my theories.

Maybe because the house had a different layout the perps got confused as to where the doors were-sounds silly I know. I can see in the old video, the front door the house-the one that faced the street, is easy to see. It is behind the livingroom wall where the couch was against, down a hallway where I believe you would have passed the doorway into the kitchen on one side and the bathroom on the other. From old pics of the house from the air,I think the house also had a side door leading into a small screened in porch area, as opposed to a back door.

I wish I could just go and check the inside of that house!

I'll be back later with more thoughts...

I love everyones ideas about this case!!

Apparently none of the windows could be opened from the outside, the person tried to force at least 1 window open (leaving marks, the bedroom window) the only window that could be opened from the outside was the basement window but it wasnt open, just accessible from the outside.

Its worth note that it was the end of october in winsconsin so it would have been about 45 degrees and dark out, It seems to me that the last place someone would randomly break into was a house that had a huge window with no curtains and lights on when its dark outside, its too risky.

Heres a newspaper article that shows the baby that she was babysitting, and bits of the outside of the home.

http://lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00010001.jpg

The Rasmusens had an older 7 year old daughter that went with them to the football game that night, heres an article with Janice (the baby in the home) now that shes older, saying that she and her parents never have talked about the event..

http://lacrosselibrary.org/digitalproject/images/hartley/00150015.jpg

joellegirl
07-31-2010, 02:06 PM
The home she was taken from was 2415 Hoeschler Dr. The home on the link is not the right one. I am going to search my pictures and see if I can post one I have taken while driving by.

joellegirl
07-31-2010, 02:17 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&sll=43.787086,-91.216189&sspn=0.007157,0.01929&g=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2415+Hoeschler+Dr,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+5460 1&ll=43.787121,-91.216038&spn=0.000447,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=43.786889,-91.216417&panoid=sbzzuLxMXCorag0s7hYDpw&cbp=12,44.71,,0,5

Hope this link works of 2415 Hoeschler Dr

punklove
07-31-2010, 02:19 PM
The home she was taken from was 2415 Hoeschler Dr. The home on the link is not the right one. I am going to search my pictures and see if I can post one I have taken while driving by.

That would be amazing!

I posted the wrong link - this is 2415 Hoeschler Drive

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&sll=43.786889,-91.216417&sspn=0.01106,0.019205&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2415+Hoeschler+Dr,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+5460 1&ll=43.792612,-91.216199&spn=0,0.019205&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.786889,-91.216417&panoid=sbzzuLxMXCorag0s7hYDpw&cbp=12,50.79,,0,9.27


This is the view from above of all the homes, do you know which one is 2415?

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=220+east+sout h+street+albembarle&amp;sll=43.786889,-91.216417&amp;sspn=0.000691,0.0012&amp;g=2415+Hoeschler+Dr ,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+54601&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=43.786889,-91.216417&amp;spn=0.001326,0.002401&amp;t=h&amp;z=14&amp;output=em bed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=embed&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=220+east+so uth+street+albembarle&amp;sll=43.786889,-91.216417&amp;sspn=0.000691,0.0012&amp;g=2415+Hoeschler+Dr ,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+54601&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=43.786889,-91.216417&amp;spn=0.001326,0.002401&amp;t=h&amp;z=14" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

joellegirl
07-31-2010, 02:23 PM
Yay I got the right link. Will take longer to find the pics I have taken in person. How does one post a personal picture on here?

The neighborhood is now full of full grown trees, back in 1953 it was very stark.

The house has changed a lot since 1953. Garage added, angles of roof changed in places,new siding. I hope to find a link to the home in 1953. The two kitchen windows, door, small bathroom window and the large bedroom window are still in the same place. THE basement window is on the south side of the house, closest to the street.

joellegirl
07-31-2010, 02:38 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2415+Hoeschler+Court,+La+Crosse,+WI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.197599,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2415+Hoeschler+Dr,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+5460 1&ll=43.786869,-91.216242&spn=0.001789,0.004823&t=h&z=18

Hopefully this link will work a satellite pic of the neighborhood. Where the "A" is is 2415 Hoeschler DR.

punklove
08-01-2010, 06:24 PM
Says that the FBI refused to step in and help with the case and the searching for Evelyn, even though the DA asked the FBI for help. I wonder why?
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=L6YtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tdYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1721,3407743&dq=evelyn+hartley&hl=en

Also, this says that there was NO blood found in the home and the blood that was found 'by' the window was actually 10 feet away from the window.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=zV4xAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TBAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5224,5774223&dq=evelyn+hartley&hl=en

Fifty years later and shes still not declared legally dead.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kLQaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gUMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4277,5676152&dq=evelyn+hartley&hl=en

Detectives believe the suspect entered through the basement, left through front or back door.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=K-QcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yGQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6398,4275245&dq=evelyn+hartley&hl=en

Says the secret service reported it had to stop looking into Evelyns case due to the lack of 'cooperation' from the police department handing her case.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=f0MxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UREEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3617,4832370&dq=evelyn+hartley&hl=en

Story about her filling in for her friend last minute.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=44gbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NVEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4464,3110718&dq=evelyn+hartley+missing&hl=en

"mass" lie detector test given to 1,700 students in regards to her case.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Q8g0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=-n8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5507,684035&dq=evelyn+hartley+missing&hl=en

Story saying that everyone around her thought it was weird that she would babysit for her friend that night and not go to the football game herself - because she was a huge fan that never missed a game.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VScsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=R58FAAAAIBAJ&pg=729,3321611&dq=evelyn+hartley+missing&hl=en

Claudette
08-02-2010, 06:23 PM
I think that's a very good point against this being a robbery gone wrong.

But it's hard to understand why Evelyn was targeted - if the perp(s) just wanted a girl Evelyn's age for their sexual/deviant reasons, there were certainly easily ways to obtain a victim without all of the hassles of breaking into a home and dragging Evelyn away.

Perhaps, in these circumstances, it was the easiest way. The whole town was at the game....

punklove
08-02-2010, 09:14 PM
Perhaps, in these circumstances, it was the easiest way. The whole town was at the game....

I honestly am baffled now, if the papers I posted before are right the person came in through the basement and left through one of the front doors. There was NO blood inside the house and the blood that was 'by the basement window' was actually more like 10 feet away.

That seems more to me like it could be random, because from the sound of it - its possible that someone came through the basement and when she saw them she attempted to flee, that person didnt catch her until she was nearly at the neighbors home which is why there were bloody fingerprints and a huge pool of blood 10feet from the home, and that would also account for the reason her body was taking with, if he only captured her (and wounded her) once she was outside that means he had no chance to do 'anything' to her that he may have wanted, thus making him take her with him.

:(

I would have sworn it wasnt a 'random' thing before but if the above information is correct it very well could be and that could account for nothing ever coming from the search - the 'perp' was more than likely hours away by the time the search started.

Claudette
08-02-2010, 10:18 PM
Agreed - it is strange because most of the town was occupied with the game. Normally I would say she was clearly targeted. In this case though, I can't help but wonder if some creeper was just on the prowl for an empty neighborhood, looking for houses with lights on that are surrounded by mostly dark houses. After all, it would be clear if there are people home in a neighborhood.

Plus, it was the dead of winter AND night time. No one would be outside if any people were at home. Forensics weren't what they are today, and the guy probably thought in the end it would be easier if he took her with him. In his mind, no body no evidence?

punklove
08-03-2010, 03:30 AM
Agreed - it is strange because most of the town was occupied with the game. Normally I would say she was clearly targeted. In this case though, I can't help but wonder if some creeper was just on the prowl for an empty neighborhood, looking for houses with lights on that are surrounded by mostly dark houses. After all, it would be clear if there are people home in a neighborhood.

Plus, it was the dead of winter AND night time. No one would be outside if any people were at home. Forensics weren't what they are today, and the guy probably thought in the end it would be easier if he took her with him. In his mind, no body no evidence?

It really seems that this crime was sexually motivated, had he been looking to rob someones home he could have picked any of the numerous other homes in the area that very obviously had nobody home. Its apparent he cased the home (as he tried to open the bedroom window but couldnt) so he would have seen the lights were on and known that wouldnt be a house to rob.

Also, if he did try to rob the home and was unable to subdue her before she was able to get out of the front door he would do 1 of 2 things - either run away from the home as fast as he could because she surely would be calling the police once she seeked refuge OR if he knew that she could ID him run after her and kill her, leaving her dead outside of the home.

I feel strongly that the person that did it wasnt someone that she knew - the amount of bleeding she was doing means the persons car would have been covered with blood - the police throughly checked nearly every car in the entire town putting a "im ok" sticker on peoples car once they were cleared. Also, There was a mass polygraph given (over 1700 people) to everyone in her school along with several other people - had someone known any tiny thing it would have come out. What would make someone break into a well lit home where its obvious someone is inside?

At this point this is what I feel could have happened -

The person was out looking for someone to rape - walking through the neighborhood and after seeing the home with the lights on, and more than likely watching from outside for long enough to feel comfortable that only evelyn was home, with evelyn being inside with the lights on and it being dark outside he would have no problem watching her without her being able to see him.

He attempted to break in through the bedroom window, was unable so he broke in through the basement window.. Went upstairs and startled evelyn while she was doing her homework in the living room, they both struggle, knocking off one shoe and breaking her glasses - he drags her into the basement so that he could rape her (less chance of anyone hearing her in the basement) which is where she lost her other shoe. Somehow she breaks away, leaps the steps then out the front (or back) door attempting to run to the neighbors for help. She almost reaches the neighbors but he catches up and wounds her somehow (more than likely with a knife) wounding her very badly then drug/carried her to his car because he hadnt yet raped her and that was his original intent (he wouldnt have taken her back inside to rape her at that point becasue she screamed while she was outside and he would have thought the police would be there any time from someone in the area calling police) Once he was able to do so he tossed her body somewhere, tossed her clothing as well as some of his and was well on his way before anyone knew what happened and he was never found because it was a completely random crime that had no ties to him.

punklove
08-03-2010, 03:41 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2415+Hoeschler+Court,+La+Crosse,+WI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.197599,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2415+Hoeschler+Dr,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+5460 1&ll=43.786869,-91.216242&spn=0.001789,0.004823&t=h&z=18

Hopefully this link will work a satellite pic of the neighborhood. Where the "A" is is 2415 Hoeschler DR.

Thanks!

I have a question for you - when looking at that I couldnt help to notice what looked to be a railroad track 2 blocks away from the home - the dogs lost the scent of Evelyn 2 blocks away - I did a little research and found that its the 'BNSF' railway and isnt a passenger train, Is it possible the person that did this actually took her and stowed away on the train with her? Im unable to find the exact location of where they found the clothing and shoes but I wonder if it was near the railway, him tossing things out as they go along?

amber1
08-03-2010, 10:04 AM
The train idea is very probable.

Based on what I have read and what I know, I believe this guy was someone out of town, but perhaps he came into town enough to know who Evelyn was. The fact that their was no blood on any car in the neighborhood and no abandoned vehicle found, supports the theory of stowing away on a train, or the possibility that they just didn't find the vehicle because the guy wasn't from town. From the amount of blood found by where she last was, it would be impossible for there to have not been any on the perp's vehicle.
I have wondered if this guy picked Evelyn at random or if he had been watching her for so long that he felt a connection with her. If he picked her at random, it's possible he would have just dumped her anywhere since she had no ties to him, but if he did feel connected to her, he'd keep her in an area special to him, where he thinks she'll be 'safe' from being discovered.
From the cirumstances though, I do think this was planned, and not a coincidence it was on the night of the game. I definitley don't think it was a robbery either, but I bet the perp. was banking on it to look like one to throw police off.
It's been too long, and the chances she is still with us is slim, but I truly hope she will be found. It'd be nice to have closure in such a baffling case.

joellegirl
08-03-2010, 03:45 PM
The clothes were found along RT 14 near Coon Valley WI. I still believe she was taken by car. She was dragged through the backyards in a diagonal sort of way, and the scent ended on Coulee Dr along the curb. I have pics of this spot. How does one post pics here? It is not two blocks away, I believe that is a mistake. There was the witness who saw two men supporting a woman who appeared to be impaired, then this witness saw the car speed out of the neighborhood with the second man in the back with the woman who was leaning forward.

I am inclined to believe the story about Evelyn being taken to LaFarge. It is a remote town surrounded by hills and countryside. No one knew Evelyn there, and I don't think the car searches went on there. Also easy place to hide a body and a car.

I cannot find the link to the LaCrosse Tribune story about the LaFarge link so you could read where I am getting this from.They took it off. Not sure what that means. Basically an old man came forward in 2003 with a tape recording(from 1968) of a man in the bar talking about the Hartley case and how he and a friend "hauled that Hartley girl down from LaCrosse," some talk about graves and how she hadn't been found yet...I highly suggest anyone interested get the book "Where's Evelyn?" by Susan T Hessel. A much better detailed account of this story is in there.

joellegirl
08-03-2010, 03:53 PM
http://jg-tc.com/news/article_39f757c9-23d6-5f35-ae47-56809db3483c.html

Found it! Here is the story about the tape recording giving new clues about Evelyn being taken to a house in LaFarge... from the newspaper in Charleston IL, where Evelyn lived before moving to LaCrosse WI

And according to this article one the perps knew or knew of Evelyn,and that she would be babysitting, which confuses me because Evelyn was called at the last minute(unless that is a mistake). These perps doen't sound like the type who would have known the Rasmusens or the Hartleys, so maybe they learned of this through the grapevine somehow...

Also, it is stated that on the tape the men told of the exact location of where Evelyn was buried. I am so curious if any searches have been done since 2003! Even if had been flooded, I wish they'd search! If they did, the papers sure never did another article about it.

punklove
08-03-2010, 04:05 PM
The train idea is very probable.

Based on what I have read and what I know, I believe this guy was someone out of town, but perhaps he came into town enough to know who Evelyn was. The fact that their was no blood on any car in the neighborhood and no abandoned vehicle found, supports the theory of stowing away on a train, or the possibility that they just didn't find the vehicle because the guy wasn't from town. From the amount of blood found by where she last was, it would be impossible for there to have not been any on the perp's vehicle.
I have wondered if this guy picked Evelyn at random or if he had been watching her for so long that he felt a connection with her. If he picked her at random, it's possible he would have just dumped her anywhere since she had no ties to him, but if he did feel connected to her, he'd keep her in an area special to him, where he thinks she'll be 'safe' from being discovered.
From the cirumstances though, I do think this was planned, and not a coincidence it was on the night of the game. I definitley don't think it was a robbery either, but I bet the perp. was banking on it to look like one to throw police off.
It's been too long, and the chances she is still with us is slim, but I truly hope she will be found. It'd be nice to have closure in such a baffling case.

Its possible someone was watching her, she didnt know that she would be babysitting at that home until very last minute (she covered for her friend who wanted to go to the homecoming dance) and she was only inside the home for about 25-35 minutes before neighbors say they heard three screams, dismissing them as children playing.

I always assumed that her being in the home for such a short amount of time and her not babysitting until the last minute meant that it was a random person (because nobody would know she was there babysitting) but its possible someone was watching her and thats how he knew she was babysitting.

Her parents and siblings said they didnt know why she didnt go to that game and it confused them because it was typically something that she never missed, I wonder if she didnt go because she was nervous/scared about running into someone there OR if she wanted to invite someone over to the home where she was babysitting? If she was interested in someone older (or that she knew her parents wouldnt like) its possible she would have never told her parents she was 'seeing' him and decided to use this babysitting gig as a way to have one on one with him.

Even at 15 she was described as "mature" because she was already quite tall and well formed.

So much about this just confuses me and makes me go back and forth with what I think happened.

punklove
08-03-2010, 04:19 PM
http://jg-tc.com/news/article_39f757c9-23d6-5f35-ae47-56809db3483c.html

Found it! Here is the story about the tape recording giving new clues about Evelyn being taken to a house in LaFarge... from the newspaper in Charleston IL, where Evelyn lived before moving to LaCrosse WI

And according to this article one the perps knew or knew of Evelyn,and that she would be babysitting, which confuses me because Evelyn was called at the last minute(unless that is a mistake). These perps doen't sound like the type who would have known the Rasmusens or the Hartleys, so maybe they learned of this through the grapevine somehow...

"There was a 50-year-old murder that may have taken place in your house," said Thompson. "May I come in?"

How interesting!!

In regards to her filling in at the last minute, a couple pages ago I posted some newspaper archives where the father said that she hadnt babysat there in three months, and that he was confused why she was babysitting that night, and was adamant that she wasnt supposed to be there that night but it was a very last minute thing.

joellegirl
08-03-2010, 04:23 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&daddr=2311+Coulee+Dr,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+54601&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=43.787659,-91.21614&sspn=0.001789,0.004823&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=19

Try this link to show the distance between the Rasmusen home(A) and the house on Coulee (B)where Evelyn's scent ended. From the blood evidence on one house and on the garage behind the house next to 2311 Coulee Dr, Evelyn was dragged through the backyards, along the sides of houses and to the curb of Coulee Dr.

joellegirl
08-03-2010, 05:19 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1533+johnson+st+la+crosse+wi&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.197599,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1533+Johnson+St,+La+Crosse,+Wisconsin+54601&ll=43.800451,-91.232746&spn=0.000447,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=43.800451,-91.232746&panoid=GYenxa8_otYSP4k6L_aYcw&cbp=12,326.47,,0,-4.5

Here is a Google street view of the house Evelyn and her family lived at, 1533 Johnson St.

And below a map of the distance from her home to the Rasmusen's.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1533+johnson+st+la+crosse+wi&daddr=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&hl=en&geocode=FaZYnAIdMOWP-ilRhxJZalX5hzHz9GgTW99lpQ%3BFU4jnAIdwyaQ-imjrioyVFX5hzHjcpKuMeDfTQ&mra=ls&sll=43.800451,-91.232746&sspn=0.000451,0.001206&ie=UTF8&ll=43.794331,-91.224718&spn=0.028623,0.077162&t=h&z=14

joellegirl
08-03-2010, 11:16 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&daddr=La+Farge,+WI&hl=en&geocode=FU4jnAIdwyaQ-imjrioyVFX5hzHjcpKuMeDfTQ%3BFajlmAId6O-Y-in7j_w6CzP8hzETn_lEuNgOIw&mra=ls&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.197599,79.013672&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11

Here is the map showing the route from Hoeschler Dr in La Crosse to La Farge..... Coon Valley , where the clothes were found, is almost midway there.

Claudette
08-03-2010, 11:39 PM
We all have various theories but it sounds like we all agree on one thing - the fact that this happened the night of a big game was NOT a coincidence. Anyone disagree? I would love to hear your theories if so!

Claudette
08-03-2010, 11:41 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=2415+Hoeschler+Drive,+La+Crosse,+WI&daddr=La+Farge,+WI&hl=en&geocode=FU4jnAIdwyaQ-imjrioyVFX5hzHjcpKuMeDfTQ%3BFajlmAId6O-Y-in7j_w6CzP8hzETn_lEuNgOIw&mra=ls&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.197599,79.013672&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11

Here is the map showing the route from Hoeschler Dr in La Crosse to La Farge..... Coon Valley , where the clothes were found, is almost midway there.

Wow so taking 14 is a pretty direct route. And the clothes were found ON Rte 14. Definitely an interesting co-ink-a-dink.

Marilynilpa
08-04-2010, 08:28 AM
So much about this just confuses me and makes me go back and forth with what I think happened.

I feel 100% the same way - I keep going back and forth between was it random or was it intentional. Was she just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or was she a deliberate target.

Most of the time I think this was a random incident - especially since Evelyn filled in at the last minute as the babysitter. But maybe she unwittingly crossed the path of a rapist/killer who decided to make her his next victim.:waitasec:

It seems like there had to be two people involved, which puzzles me if this was a deliberate attack on Evelyn. Although it isn't completely unheard of for two men to prey on women together, it isn't that common. But it isn't that unusual for two men to burglarize a home together, which is why I generally lean towards the burglary gone wrong theory.

Has anyone read anything about other burglaries in the area during this time? It's possible someone has already posted that info on this thread, but I didn't see it.

Marilynilpa
08-04-2010, 08:30 AM
We all have various theories but it sounds like we all agree on one thing - the fact that this happened the night of a big game was NOT a coincidence. Anyone disagree? I would love to hear your theories if so!

I agree that the timing was no coincidence - either the perp intended to break into the house because he knew no one would be home, or he intended to attack Evelyn because he knew there wouldn't be that many people around to witness anything.

joellegirl
08-04-2010, 01:21 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=park&sll=43.808707,-91.233533&sspn=0.000447,0.001206&ie=UTF8&t=h&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.04&hq=park&hnear=&ll=43.808707,-91.233533&spn=0.000447,0.001206&z=20&layer=c&cbll=43.808696,-91.233557&panoid=sjf6Acz5UVLUR-DUu-XvuA&cbp=12,144.96,,0,5

This is a Google street view of where Central High School was in Evelyn's day. It was torn down in the 1960s and a new building was built nearby. It is now a park and the marker you see describes the school and it's history.

This doesn't really have to do with solving the case, just thought some might be interested in seeing where her high school was.