View Full Version : CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County)
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 04:57 PM
A few quick things while I write the other and upload some photos:
Tomorrow they're asking people in the community to wear blue to bring awareness about Chelsea's disappearance and as a show of support to her family.
Blue ribbons are lining nearly all the trees down the streets near West Bernardo - sort of like we have the luminaries at Christmas there are now blue ribbons. Signs and posters are everywhere (including now on freeway overpasses) - even on the drive thru at Taco Bell in Westwood!
There's another prayer thing Tuesday:
Silent Prayer Procession for Chelsea King
Date:
Tuesday, March 2, 2010
Time:
7:00pm - 8:30pm
Location:
St. Michael's Church
Street:
15546 Pomerado Road
City/Town:
Poway, CA
Please join your voice with others in a silent candlelit prayer procession down Pomerado Road, starting at St. Michael's Church. Bring your families, friends, and loved ones. Bring a candle. Bring your love. Bring your voice on behalf of Chelsea King and her family.
soyesterday
02-28-2010, 05:02 PM
http://nctimes.com/news/local/rancho-bernardo/article_74fbafd9-6cd5-5412-b176-8100e8a0a31a.html?mode=comments
I find the comments by "Mesmerized" to be a little strange...
That IS really strange....really cryptic....what do u guys think about that??
TheMentalist
02-28-2010, 05:05 PM
Sounds a bit nutty to me. But its hard to tell what people are saying on the internet often times those who dont understand English language very well dont realize what they are saying or how it may sound. I really have no idea what this poster is talking about.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 05:44 PM
I'd say the tone has changed here today. It seems still as resolvedly determined, but now I think it's decidedly less optimistic than it had been. People are trying to remain hopeful but concern is definitely increasing.
It seemed most people, authorities included, were truly hoping she'd be found simply injured from twisting an ankle or something running and just not able to get back out from the trails and would be found, and now that it's been almost 72 hours with (from the Sheriff himself) one of the largest searches of this kind he's seen, that people are fearing that she truly was abducted or encountered someone who did something to/with her.
They had 70+ groups that went out today, with about 15-20 people each, and still plan to go out every morning beginning at 9, though I think they are still stagger starting some teams. As I said, they are apparently restricting access of where most searchers are going, though, and keeping most people in neighborhoods and off of the trails now. Over 35,000 fliers were there to be passed out and posted today by volunteers.
Two helicopters have been up most of the day. The larger one is being used to "ferry" people out to areas further back in the trails, more west of the park, and then having them search from there back in towards the park.
There was a very large concentration of LEO (Sheriffs, SDPD, police from other areas, military, dive team, SAR teams, and apparently still FBI, but those I didn't personally see) out, not only by the park, but also in one particular area further back.
In the area near the waterfall down below Legends neighborhood (visible from the end of Smokesignal) there were several dozen search teams that seemed to be focusing on the trails there, the rocks and waterfall area carefully, and then the finger of the lake that is right there.
It's actually the area near where the other attack/robbery reportedly occurred - basically at Poblado between Moon Song and Smokesignal. There were probably 70+ more searchers in gear (not just the LRC group vests, this was something else), half a dozen or so cop cars, SAR labeled vehicles, and some others that I saw as I went past. They were all waiting to enter the rails there. It was clearly the direction they had a large number of people staging to go in and comb even more, and the trails there are blocked (and, from the looks of it) are likely guarded overnight right now to keep people out.
There is definitely a heavy LEO presence, and Chelsea's disappearance is really the only topic of conversation. You overhear it everywhere - in the store, at restaurants, at church, out shopping, etc. Everyone's sharing stories of what they've done to help - donated food, searched, posted fliers, tied ribbons, gone to prayer vigils, etc. And everyone is definitely holding their children closer.
Photos of some of the above to come in a few minutes.
TheMentalist
02-28-2010, 06:01 PM
I wonder if the authorities are following the trash to the dump like what was done in Florida to find Somer Thompson. Based on a hunch the Florida authorities were able to locate her remains quite quickly in her missing person case. I know that sounds like a terrible thing to think about but lets face it...people dont just vanish they are somewhere.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 06:09 PM
One thing I forgot and thought of as I was uploading the pictures, it DID appear that they were letting recreational boats out on Lake Hodges, at least out by the freeway and the footbridge area. They may have been keeping them out of the area immediately behind the park, and where the lake fingers back toward the Westwood neighborhood, but there were definitely quite a few boats out, and all appeared to be fishing, not people out with vests or the search boats they had out the last few days...at least not in that part of the lake.
So it definitely seems they have reason to think now that she was only in the southern area - since the northern parts of the lake are open and the trails there are, whereas everything south of the lake isn't allowing public access.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 06:20 PM
**Clicking on photos should let you open them and then zoom in more in Flickr
Since people had been talking about the neighborhood, the homes, and the proximity of the trails to that area, plus the Piedras trail in particular, and where the other reported robbery/attack occurred, this was what I tried to photograph.
Here's a panoramic of that area - below, I have some other photos, and then I also have the individual photos that were used to make this composite so you can see more detail.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4395812501_d72a13c1e7_m.jpg
This is an updated map from the one I posted last night - the car is where her car was parked by the rec center - the green bike shows the foot/bike bridge which IS open to the public to walk/run/etc. on the north shore of Lake Hodges.
The yellow $ is where the reported earlier attack/robbery in December was AND is where there was the heavy police presence and large group of searchers staging to go in and look.
The green line/loop is where the waterfall is near the Piedras trail, and where the trail gets closest to the homes. This where many searchers were out combing, as well.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4396490778_68a3a22524_m.jpg
Here's a zoomed in map
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4396490698_4f110fccf7_m.jpg
I would guess the focus on the lake and waterfall area is based on what the Sheriff was saying yesterday about her not being found in the open and on the trails so now they're looking at the water.
As you get further back from the park towards the neighborhood the terrain gets rockier.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2791/4395716131_6c33183152_m.jpg
This is the proximity of the upper trail to the neighborhood - there's a lower trail area, as well. That's the Legends development with High Mesa, Sun Maiden, and Moon Song. And it's below Moon Song (between that and Smokesignal, which Monticook branches of off) that there is the other main access to those back trails and loops off of Poblado (and where the other attack/robbery was reported to have occurred near Poblado)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4396490616_9acb70e1c2_m.jpg
Here's a closer shot toward High Mesa, Sun Maiden, and Moon Song - the streets in the Legends development just west of where the primary street access to the trails from Pobaldo is
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2749/4396487228_62c0f12efa_m.jpg
This is looking toward the bigger area of Lake Hodges from one of the little 'fingers' of the lake. If you look on the far hill where the cloud shadow is, halfway between the shadow and the shore of the lake you can see the upper trail on the north side of the lake - that's one of the trails you can take if you cross the foot/bike bridge to the north side - that is technically Escondido, and where you can follow the trail all the way down toward the dock several miles down and toward the dam (and Hernandez Hideaway restaurant someone mentioned)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4395717729_d7d7a2d7d8_m.jpg
If you look from the bottom of the photo is, where you see the fence, and then look up from that, you see the trail that bends right by a large rocky area. That's a waterfall right near the 'finger' of the lake - and that's a popular destination for people hiking/biking/walking/running/etc. If you look back at the composite panorama photo for perspective, you can see where the trail bends to the left, it then goes around the rocks/waterfall area and that's where it gets closer to the neighborhood before hooking back around and heading more westerly again.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4396488930_228a63674c_m.jpg
And here's a group of searchers above the waterfall area, then there were many others below by the waterfall, at the lake's edge there, etc.
If you look back at the panoramic photo once more, at the top where the power lines seem to start in the sky, look at that hill there in the center of the photo. The helicopter ferrying people out to search backward toward the park were being dropped off somewhere behind the hill.
Does that help provide a little visual perspective for those of you who aren't here on sites? At least it's a better look at the terrain and where some things are in photos and then placed onto a map!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4396482152_3b97f67921_m.jpg
RunningonEmpty
02-28-2010, 06:20 PM
So it definitely seems they have reason to think now that she was only in the southern area - since the northern parts of the lake are open and the trails there are, whereas everything south of the lake isn't allowing public access.
Based on what was posted earlier by TravelingBug about their specific focus on the area near poblado and moon song and her last post, it seems to me two things might be clear:
1. There is evidence to suggest the whereabouts of where she ran/was attacked/abducted.
2. Doesn't look like it might be a parking lot abduction...
belimom
02-28-2010, 06:27 PM
Thank you, TravelingBug...! Your pictures, posts, and updates are awesome.
belimom
02-28-2010, 06:30 PM
That green line for the trail really comes close to the residential area with the robbery.... I didn't realize how close the trail came to the homes. There are so many possibilities here.
RunningonEmpty
02-28-2010, 06:32 PM
I was just thinking back to my runs from Poblado to the RB community center, and I remember somewhere along the trail, near the lake finger that TravelBug mentioned as a location of interest, there was some sort of utility building (maybe something to do with the power lines?).
However, I remember thinking it was an odd place to have such a building and also wondered about how vehicles got access to this place. Perhaps they have some surveillance? Maybe someone who visited this structure for work thought of other possible things to do with the knowledge of it's seclusion?
Anyone familiar with this trail know what I am referring to?
TheMentalist
02-28-2010, 06:32 PM
Just bumping for news and ran across a thread that stated Missing Teen Chelsea King was reported missing 4 days ago. That really brought the reality of it to me...has it been that long? It doesnt seem like it but Im sure it feels like an eternity to her parents. How awful to have to wait for answers.
Formerslueth
02-28-2010, 06:51 PM
TB,
There's been some focus on the footbridge crossing one of the lake fingers closer to the community center. You would have the best view to see it from above on the east end of Alborada Drive (in the cul de sac). Not sure whether you are viewing from that side or not. If someone ran the route from the community center toward the Pobaldo entrance, they would most likely cross that bridge.
RunningonEmpty
02-28-2010, 06:58 PM
I was just thinking back to my runs from Poblado to the RB community center, and I remember somewhere along the trail, near the lake finger that TravelBug mentioned as a location of interest, there was some sort of utility building (maybe something to do with the power lines?).
However, I remember thinking it was an odd place to have such a building and also wondered about how vehicles got access to this place. Perhaps they have some surveillance? Maybe someone who visited this structure for work thought of other possible things to do with the knowledge of it's seclusion?
Anyone familiar with this trail know what I am referring to?
Ok so I tried to find it on Google Maps and these pictures are the best I can do.
This first one is a zoomed out version so you can get an idea of the location in relation to the lake, the community center, and the houses.
If you look in the bottom left corner where it says cruise and vacation specialist there is a offset road from the houses to what looks like a rectangular lot, that I believe is the utility area.
Picture 1
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7756&stc=1&d=1267401013
In the second picture, you can see a more zoomed in version, where the utility area is basically in the center of the picture and is obvious that it attaches directly to the trail!
Picture 2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7757&stc=1&d=1267401035
The third is just a another view, here the utility area is in the bottom left corner.
Picture 3
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7758&stc=1&d=1267401055
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 06:59 PM
So far, Steph Watts is the only one saying anything about a sports bra.
Not one thing in any msm.
Steph says he is on scene though, who knows. I can't see him putting that out unless it's true.
I hope he's not really posting accurate information he is not supposed to be posting. If this was for public broadcast, LE would have issued a statement. How smart would it be to have someone post "And we just found the missing person's clothing next to a wallet with the information of a person of interest."? They are being close-mouthed for a reason, and while the public would like to know, it might not be in the best interest of the missing person.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 07:08 PM
Ok so I tried to find it on Google Maps and these pictures are the best I can do.
This first one is a zoomed out version so you can get an idea of the location in relation to the lake, the community center, and the houses.
If you look in the bottom left corner where it says cruise and vacation specialist there is a offset road from the houses to what looks like a rectangular lot, that I believe is the utility area.
Picture 1
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7756&stc=1&d=1267401013
In the second picture, you can see a more zoomed in version, where the utility area is basically in the center of the picture and is obvious that it attaches directly to the trail!
Picture 2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7757&stc=1&d=1267401035
The third is just a another view, here the utility area is in the bottom left corner.
Picture 3
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7758&stc=1&d=1267401055
Great shots. In the first picture, the bridge that FormerSlueth is referring to is just right of center, crossing over the finger of the lake. The area I believe TravelingBug said the helicopters were at is to the lower center/right.
In the second picture, the waterfall searched yesterday is toward the top right.
I hope he's not really posting accurate information he is not supposed to be posting. If this was for public broadcast, LE would have issued a statement. How smart would it be to have someone post "And we just found the missing person's clothing next to a wallet with the information of a person of interest."? They are being close-mouthed for a reason, and while the public would like to know, it might not be in the best interest of the missing person.
I thought volunteers with search groups, TES and others, pledge NOT to disclose anything they find in a search except to LE.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 07:26 PM
I thought volunteers with search groups, TES and others, pledge NOT to disclose anything they find in a search except to LE.
I don't think he is a volunteer. I'm actually not sure what his designation is, although he calls himself a "reporter/producer". Volunteers do sign a paper that says you agree that any information acquired during your service will not be used for personal gain and be held confidential.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 07:39 PM
I was just thinking back to my runs from Poblado to the RB community center, and I remember somewhere along the trail, near the lake finger that TravelBug mentioned as a location of interest, there was some sort of utility building (maybe something to do with the power lines?).
However, I remember thinking it was an odd place to have such a building and also wondered about how vehicles got access to this place. Perhaps they have some surveillance? Maybe someone who visited this structure for work thought of other possible things to do with the knowledge of it's seclusion?
Anyone familiar with this trail know what I am referring to?
There's at least one major access road that runs the ridge along High Mesa Court in the Legends area. There seemed to be several access points to that road, all gated and locked.
Indian Lore and Harvest Dance were two other access points to get to that road...but as I said, always gated and locked. I've parked at the bottom of the access roads many times as a starting point to go geocaching back there.
I believe technically it's (the road parallel to High Mesa Court) primary purpose is a fire access road, but it is also used by SDG&E, etc. to access the power lines, and from that top ridge you'd see them going down behind (though technically that's actually north) Legends on the road toward that utility 'station' thing down there you're talking about.
I believe it's also accessible from one of the streets off of the neighborhood if you wind around from Aguamiel/Creciente/Alborada/Manticook/Smokesignal area...but I can't remember which street it is you see another gate thing that can be opened.
Monticook may have an access point, and I actually think Poblada there at between Smokesignal and Moon Song may even have more of an access as a fire road, but I'm trying to remember. I'll have to go past that and look for sure. If there aren't a boatload of searchers and LEO sitting at that Poblado point where the trail begins tomorrow I'll take a photo so people can see what we mean when we talk about that particular trail starting point since it seems to be an area of high interest.
I'll take another look at the end of Smokesignal, too, where Alborada joins by that dead end. I forget if that has those same bar/gate things as by Indian Lore and Harvest Dance?
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 07:42 PM
I don't think he is a volunteer. I'm actually not sure what his designation is, although he calls himself a "reporter/producer". Volunteers do sign a paper that says you agree that any information acquired during your service will not be used for personal gain and be held confidential.
What's he look like? And wasn't he involved with the Casey or Haley case or something? Why is his name familiar to me?
One of the people I spoke with was standing around with a very large camera and some camera bags around his waist taking photos near where I was at one point, and I wondered who he was and was struck by all of his fancy gadgets on a street that typically mostly locals would have known had a good view for what's going on right now.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 07:47 PM
Great shots. In the first picture, the bridge that FormerSlueth is referring to is just right of center, crossing over the finger of the lake. The area I believe TravelingBug said the helicopters were at is to the lower center/right.
In the second picture, the waterfall searched yesterday is toward the top right.
Ghost, not sure if you saw my photos and write up earlier, but the waterfalls and surrounding area there are a very heavy focus again today. My photos were from about 1 pm and there were many dozen down there and 70 ish more waiting in a staging area to go in (and however many were between there at Poblado where they were staging and actually being at the falls and finger of the lake there) Plus they were helicoptering searchers in behind that area.
There was definitely a lot of activity there in that area again...as opposed to the bridge area and nearer Aguamiel where they had been the first day and night.
I'm interested to hear what exactly makes the news today. I saw KGTV (10) entering the park and either 5 or 6 was down in the lot in the park, but too far for me to see for sure...just know which ones it wasn't based on colour and vehicles! So they were there then, and I'm sure there now setting up for live shows at 5, 6, etc.
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 07:49 PM
if the sheriff said, which i think is true? that they were looking into a possible abduction, then they must have a reason for saying this, i am pretty sure they would never say this if they did not have some evidence. Was it LE that used that word?
Plumeria5
02-28-2010, 07:49 PM
Here's the Chelsea King website (http://findchelsea.com/).
Also, multiple sources now saying the FBI is now involved in the search (most sources saying due to the belief she may have been abducted).
Investigators seek help in finding missing Poway teen (http://www.delmartimes.net/news/266422-investigators-seek-help-in-finding-missing-poway-teen)
"We have probably 150 to 250 deputies, officers, agents and volunteers all night long and they will continue to stay here as long as needed," said Jan Caldwell, a spokeswoman for the San Diego County Sheriff's Department.
Caldwell said the search is being assisted by the FBI, San Diego Police Department, San Diego Fire-Rescue Department, Del Mar Lifeguards and search and rescue teams from Riverside County.
<snip>
A black BMW, believed to be King's, remained in the parking lot Friday surrounded by yellow tape.
Friday morning, law enforcement personnel from Riverside County arrived with canines to aid in the search. Additional canines from other agencies within San Diego County were also being used in the search, according to San Diego County sheriff's Lt. Harold Turner. Boats were also being used to search the adjacent Lake Hodges.
OMG! Did any of you read the last comment on her website??? Could this person be her abductor? Very disrespectful!!!!
Plumeria5
02-28-2010, 07:52 PM
OMG! Did any of you read the last comment on her website??? Could this person be her abductor? Very disrespectful!!!!
The comment got deleted! You can read what other's comments are though to the person. Edgar (I forgot the last name) was the author.
Formerslueth
02-28-2010, 07:52 PM
If it's the same Steph Watts, he bills himself as a freelance reporter. Has a website and a blog.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 08:05 PM
KFMB (8) at 5 pm:
Thousands have been out searching, but volunteer searchers are done for the day, and are doing debriefing and sharing evidence that may have been found.
Searchers went door to door hoping someone had heard/seen something.
Sonar and drones are being used (military and LEO in conjunction) to search the lake and area for evidence.
The family is very thankful for the outpouring of support and help and they ask even more to continue coming out. They will begin again at 9 am in the morning until a bit before dusk.
Plumeria5
02-28-2010, 08:06 PM
The comment got deleted! You can read what other's comments are though to the person. Edgar (I forgot the last name) was the author.
I was able to get back to the page I had previously viewed and the name was not Edgar but Edward Nigma which is the name for The Riddler character in Batman.
I wonder if the abductor would be so bold as to write a nasty comment on her website.
RunningonEmpty
02-28-2010, 08:17 PM
While I was listening to the San Diego County Sheriff Dept's live audio feed, they mentioned two instances of clues. However, they must have known the public is able to listen because they referred to them as "clues" rather than specific items. The first one I heard was a small item found on the ground and the second one was something found in the water in which they requested a diver.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 08:18 PM
RANCHO BERNARDO: Search for missing girl yields 'results,' officials say (http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2deb55c9-d35e-53e0-868c-a1cab480fb13.html)
By SARAH GORDON - sgordon@nctimes.com | Posted: February 28, 2010 4:13 pm | (3) Comments | Print
RANCHO BERNARDO ---- As authorities and volunteers swarmed the shores of Lake Hodges in the third day of a massive search for missing Poway High senior Chelsea King, sheriff's officials said the effort had yielded some clues.
"We're getting some results; I'm not going to talk about what those results are," said Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Jan Caldwell, speaking in front of the Rancho Bernardo Community Park Recreation Center early Sunday afternoon.
About 120 Sheriff's Department Search and Rescue Unit volunteers and nearly as many from several Southern California agencies searched approximately 4 square miles on the southern shores of Lake Hodges, where they have concentrated their work since Thursday evening, Caldwell said.
"We're replicating a lot of our efforts, because we don't want to leave anything unsearched," she said.
The area contains a web of trails where Chelsea, 17, routinely runs 4 to 6 miles.
She hasn't been seen since Thursday afternoon when she left school and headed to the park for a run. Her black BMW was found in the west end of the Rancho Bernardo park's parking lot, off West Bernardo Drive.
Caldwell said terrain has complicated the search as teams scour every inch of steep inclines, thick brush and marshy shoreline.
Three helicopters joined the search Sunday, while divers combed the lake for a second day, Caldwell said.
The Sheriff's Department was assisted Sunday by the San Diego police, FBI, Border Patrol, Del Mar lifeguards and the Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino county sheriff's departments.
Caldwell said about 50 investigators were working on the case, with some going door-to-door in the neighborhood near the park.
Chelsea's parents, Brent and Kelly King, were privately briefed at the sheriff's command center Sunday morning, Caldwell said. The pair also visited the Chelsea King Search Center in Rancho Bernardo, where they walked a line of hundreds waiting to register to help in the search, said Fionna Oberrick, the deputy director of the search center.
<snip>
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 08:19 PM
Sorry Lily'sMom! I hadn't refreshed before posting and didn't see you posted it, as well!
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 08:21 PM
If it's the same Steph Watts, he bills himself as a freelance reporter. Has a website and a blog. Yes, same one, I hesitate to give him free publicity at this time, though. (I'm a little ticked.)
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 08:23 PM
Sorry Lily'sMom! I hadn't refreshed before posting and didn't see you posted it, as well!
No worries! Yours looked better with the bold so I just deleted mine.
fabvab
02-28-2010, 08:33 PM
What's he look like? And wasn't he involved with the Casey or Haley case or something? Why is his name familiar to me?
One of the people I spoke with was standing around with a very large camera and some camera bags around his waist taking photos near where I was at one point, and I wondered who he was and was struck by all of his fancy gadgets on a street that typically mostly locals would have known had a good view for what's going on right now.
Just catching up on this thread...here's a link to his blog. Don't know if it's been posted or not.
http://stephww.wordpress.com/
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 08:34 PM
RANCHO BERNARDO: Search for missing girl yields 'results,' officials say (http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2deb55c9-d35e-53e0-868c-a1cab480fb13.html)
By SARAH GORDON - sgordon@nctimes.com | Posted: February 28, 2010 4:13 pm | (3) Comments | Print
RANCHO BERNARDO ---- As authorities and volunteers swarmed the shores of Lake Hodges in the third day of a massive search for missing Poway High senior Chelsea King, sheriff's officials said the effort had yielded some clues.
"We're getting some results; I'm not going to talk about what those results are," said Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Jan Caldwell, speaking in front of the Rancho Bernardo Community Park Recreation Center early Sunday afternoon.
<snip>
Now I'm curious about what they have found. Is Steph Watts telling the truth about the sports bra?? Was the shoe really hers?
I think it's interesting what area they are now focusing on. We had friends and family members who have helped out with the search. Everyone is so shaken over this they have to help in some small way. My mom's church gave the family a prayer quilt last night. For a large community (compared to when I was kid and Poway was still a town), this is a tight knit community.
Blue Sky opened after I graduated, but when we ran Poway Lake, we ALWAYS did it with a buddy. Even in the mid-80s, we were careful. I remember having to walk through the neighborhoods for P.E., but again, we weren't allowed to split up. We had to walk WITH at least one other person. I know that times have changed, more kids disappear now than did back then. I get so upset when I see women out alone - especially in areas with previous attacks like Blue Sky. No place is safe for females of any age these days. It's so very, very maddening. I think living in this community it is easy to become complacent. In any community it is, I imagine. I'm so angry that we can't even be safe here. Sorry, just venting.
So do we think they are seeing a connection to the attack in December based on the area they are searching?
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 08:41 PM
Just catching up on this thread...here's a link to his blog. Don't know if it's been posted or not.
http://stephww.wordpress.com/
How is he allowed to do this?!
The sheriff's office isn't sharing clues so why is this guy? :furious:
Seems to me they ought to bar him from the search.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 08:49 PM
Check out the picture here. It's on Alborada, where I mentioned yesterday, on the opposite end from the houses I recognized yesterday, closer to where the Piedras trail goes past the waterfall and utilities building RunningOnEmpty was mentioning. I think that's Smokesignal's sign, where TravelingBug said they were searching today.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Missing-Poway-Teens-Parents-Be-Strong-Baby----85767192.html
I attached a map with the area circled where they are standing.
Added a zoomed out version so you could see where it is in relation to the community center.
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 08:58 PM
actually according to an article in Time, the national center for missing and exploited children indicates that the numbers of true abductions/kidnappings by strangers has decreased over the years...but with the internet and cable news we are seeing so much coverage that it seems like it is happening all the time. This does not include custodial cases...the article indicates that while sometimes as many as 700,000 are reported missing in a year, a tiny percentage turn out to be stranger abductions and that more than 94% are returned safely...
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 09:04 PM
Now I'm curious about what they have found. Is Steph Watts telling the truth about the sports bra?? Was the shoe really hers?
I think it's interesting what area they are now focusing on. We had friends and family members who have helped out with the search. Everyone is so shaken over this they have to help in some small way. My mom's church gave the family a prayer quilt last night. For a large community (compared to when I was kid and Poway was still a town), this is a tight knit community.
Blue Sky opened after I graduated, but when we ran Poway Lake, we ALWAYS did it with a buddy. Even in the mid-80s, we were careful. I remember having to walk through the neighborhoods for P.E., but again, we weren't allowed to split up. We had to walk WITH at least one other person. I know that times have changed, more kids disappear now than did back then. I get so upset when I see women out alone - especially in areas with previous attacks like Blue Sky. No place is safe for females of any age these days. It's so very, very maddening. I think living in this community it is easy to become complacent. In any community it is, I imagine. I'm so angry that we can't even be safe here. Sorry, just venting.
So do we think they are seeing a connection to the attack in December based on the area they are searching?
I totally agree. And I'm guessing I know which church!
We must have been at PHS at similar times.
prncss14
02-28-2010, 09:04 PM
Maybe someone is just trying to be mean by posting that or they have info about what happened. A boy from her class knows what happened? Or it could just be someone trying to throw everyone off. I hope is is found alive.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 09:06 PM
KGTV (10) at 6:
New equipment has been added to the search today. The sheriff is still confident they will somehow find her. They still think if she is in the area it's within a 2-3 mile radius.
There's an underwater robot and an unmanned drone used overhead taking photos.
Crews will still be out in full force tonight and again tomorrow.
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 09:07 PM
Maybe someone is just trying to be mean by posting that or they have info about what happened. A boy from her class knows what happened? Or it could just be someone trying to throw everyone off. I hope is is found alive.
i don't think the post you are talking about could have much merit but i imagine that LE has been advised of it since it was removed from the website and are checking it out...it would be great if it turned out to be a valid clue that could be traced to an internet address...anything that helps...but i doubt it. this is a scary case as i guess there have not been any calls for ransom or the search would not be so intensive or on-going...
hndinglove
02-28-2010, 09:15 PM
just something i noticed:
in a second post about the case on this person's blog, he said that the track coach warned runners not to go out alone, due to an attack on another female out running "earlier this week."
that attack happened in late december, as noted several posts back. it could just be poor sentence construction -- i.e., the coach could have made the warning earlier in the week; the blogger might not have meant that the attack happened earlier in the week -- but i really wouldn't take this site as a solid source. something seems off, fact-wise. which is a huge bummer for the investigation; getting your name out there as "breaking news" of dubious truth shouldn't be more important than finding Chelsea.
How is he allowed to do this?!
The sheriff's office isn't sharing clues so why is this guy? :furious:
Seems to me they ought to bar him from the search.
redsky
02-28-2010, 09:33 PM
I am not going to listen to any evidence that has come out unless we can get confirmation. Wherever this guy is getting is info from - needs to be passed to LE first.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 09:35 PM
This is just to show you another glimpse of how our community rallies around one another, and why this rally to support the efforts to find Chelsea is just 'who we are' here.
When many of us lost or had damaged homes during the wildfires that especially devastated RB/Westwood, the following year on the anniversary flags were placed at the park (where Chelsea disappeared) for each home that was lost or destroyed. (This obviously gives you a sort of ground view of the ballpark area of the RB Community Park, sort of looking in the direction of the dog park area)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4012/4396347381_82b41df103_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48023608@N08/4396347381/)
The hill in the foreground here (with the homes) is the Alborada street area (which then intersects with Smokesignal - the place that Ghost indicated on the map where Chelsea's parents are seen standing today...that's also where you can get the view of the waterfalls and where my photos came from earlier today, as well)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4396346001_d5fc1585fa_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48023608@N08/4396346001/)
The hills in the background are the ones that eventually end up running along the Legends neighborhood where you see those three streets the trail sort of twists pasts by the waterfalls in my photos from today.
And at Christmas Westwood's streets are lined with luminarias.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4397142900_258714c94c_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48023608@N08/4397142900/)
As you can see, we're a neighborhood that rallies around causes and supports one another. It's one of the great things about living here - and it's one of the reasons people are coming out in throngs for Chelsea. And I'm confident that our community will continue to stand by and support Chelsea's family for as long as they need us!
AmandaReckonwith
02-28-2010, 09:39 PM
Steph Watts is saying an arrest of a 30 yr old happened. Anything in the news yet?
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 09:40 PM
Supposed to be a press conference on KFMB (8) shortly. They will break to it apparently.
I'll post as it happens.
A person tied to the search center (when questioned) said it is NOT a presser about clothing found, and that it was due to start shortly after 6:30 and that KFMB would be going to live when it happens.
AmandaReckonwith
02-28-2010, 09:43 PM
Yes, same one, I hesitate to give him free publicity at this time, though. (I'm a little ticked.)
He is freelance, he likes to scoop.
FWIW, I have not heard him lie.
AmandaReckonwith
02-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Do they have live feed? Steph just posted that tidbit on his facebook a few minutes ago.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 09:48 PM
He is freelance, he likes to scoop.
FWIW, I have not heard him lie.
Yeah, I know, yeah, I get it, I'm still ticked (for personal reasons). There was a reason they were being tight lipped.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:04 PM
Huh, very odd. They promo'd the presser.
The search center point person talked about it on FB and said it was coming up and clarified what it was not about...and then nothing happened?
Apparently it started late (and just started) and when it's over, she (search center point person) will be able to post what was stated.
TheMentalist
02-28-2010, 10:15 PM
Hi everyone, been away from the thread for awhile. I wanted to share some news on my local station. I do not reside in San Diego County I am in the Los Angeles County area but we saw a rescue of 4 illegal men rescued from the Tiguana River trying to cross the border into California. I dont know how far this is from the park where Chelsea went missing but I thought it was worth pointing out. They were apparantly hanging onto trees and the helicopter spotted them and they were rescued. I guess the helicopters are looking and searching very hard for Chelsea and for that family McStays that is missing from Fallbrook. I guess these men fell victim to the high river due to the rains. I just thought I should mention it as I was impressed that the helicopters are working so hard to find all these missing people.
Kelly Faraday
02-28-2010, 10:21 PM
"BREAKING: ARREST IN THE CHELSEA KING CASE
February 28, 2010 by Steph
A 30 year old man who lives in a home with his mother on the ege of the park that Chelsea King dissapeared from has been arrested in connection to her disssapearance…stay tuned"
Is this true? I don't know how to link to this but it is on the InSession msg board.
Does anyone know if she is alive or if they found her body?
Forgive my inexperience. I just checked in for any news and saw this.
Kelly
jadejazzkayla
02-28-2010, 10:22 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/22678790/detail.html
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:25 PM
Suspect Arrested In Missing Teen Chelsea King Case (http://www.10news.com/news/22678790/detail.html)
Chelsea King Reported Missing Thursday
POSTED: 12:14 am PST February 26, 2010
UPDATED: 7:11 pm PST February 28, 2010
[DELICIOUS: Suspect
SAN DIEGO -- In a news conference going on right now, [B]sheriff William Gore has said the police do have a suspect in custody. Stay with 10News.com and 10News for the latest developments.
An multi-agency effort to find a 17-year-old girl who failed to return from a run near Lake Hodges on Thursday resumed Sunday.
More than 1,000 volunteers turned out to search for Chelsea King on Saturday, and sheriff's deputies said they were investigating if her disappearance might be related to an assault in December.
Chelsea's BMW was found in Rancho Bernardo Community Park, where she often went to run. San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore said his investigators were working with San Diego police to determine if her disappearance was connected to a Dec. 27 assault on a woman at the Rancho Bernardo park. He declined to give details of that case.
Brent and Kelly King, Chelsea's parents, met with volunteers at the start of Saturday's search, where a big crowd turned out to help look for the Poway High School senior despite the rain. "It's a reflection of who she is and what kind of person she is," Brent Kelly said. "She's that kind of kid that everybody loves and it shows."
Saturday's search included law enforcement officers in a helicopter equipped with infrared sensors, divers and tracking dogs.
Investigators are looking at Chelsea's cell phone, which was found in her car, and her home computer for clues.
Chelsea, a member of the San Diego Symphony and a straight-A student, failed to come home from an after-school run, and her parents reported her missing about 6 p.m.
She is white, about 5 feet 5 inches and 115 pounds, with blond hair and blue eyes.
Deputies asked that anyone with more information call the sheriff's department at
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:27 PM
A suspect has been arrested in the case of missing teen Chelsea King, according to investigators. (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html)
John Gardner was arrested outside a restaurant in Escondido around 4.30 p.m. Gardner is a registered sex offender on the Megan’s law website.
King, 17, went for a run about 2 p.m. Thursday at Rancho Bernardo Community Park. She never came home.
Source: Suspect Arrested in Case of Missing Teen Chelsea King | NBC San Diego
southern_comfort
02-28-2010, 10:29 PM
On the home page, http://www.10news.com/index.html, there is a man's picture with the headline. Is that the unnamed suspect?
ETA: Ooh.. I guess he is named now. :(
Sickening.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 10:29 PM
Damn.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:32 PM
From Megan's Law site
This seems (http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=18601061E8554) to be him...fits the around 30 year old guy, but Lake Elsinore is up the freeway about 70 minutes. If what Steph said is correct and he lives with his parents (or mom) that fits.
ETA: matches the other photo
Pharmasgirl
02-28-2010, 10:33 PM
I think I am going to be sick. I jusst cannot stand this any more!
sealevel
02-28-2010, 10:33 PM
oh no. i wonder if they will be able to link him to amber dubois?
Texas Mist
02-28-2010, 10:34 PM
Damn.
Ditto.
Not good if they've named a 'suspect' vs. a POI. :(
SusanB
02-28-2010, 10:34 PM
Have they had the presser yet?
nadjatheresa
02-28-2010, 10:36 PM
From Megan's Law site
This seems (http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=18601061E8554) to be him...fits the around 30 year old guy, but Lake Elsinore is up the freeway about 70 minutes. If what Steph said is correct and he lives with his parents (or mom) that fits.
ETA: matches the other photo
6' 2", 230 lbs.
redsky
02-28-2010, 10:36 PM
:( is all I have to say.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Have they had the presser yet?
Yes. It was not a live broadcast on any local station. Happened right after everything went into prime time.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:40 PM
Man arrested in Poway teen's disappearance (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/28/man-arrested-poway-teens-disappearance/)
By UNION-TRIBUNE
Sunday, February 28, 2010 at 7:23 p.m.
Authorities have taken into custody John Albert Gardner, a registered sex offender from Lake Elsinore, in connection with the disappearance of Chelsea King of Poway, officials announced.
Department of Justice photo
John Albert Gardner of Lake Elsinore
Kelly Faraday
02-28-2010, 10:41 PM
A suspect has been arrested in the case of missing teen Chelsea King, according to investigators. (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html)
John Gardner was arrested outside a restaurant in Escondido around 4.30 p.m. Gardner is a registered sex offender on the Megan’s law website.
King, 17, went for a run about 2 p.m. Thursday at Rancho Bernardo Community Park. She never came home.
Source: Suspect Arrested in Case of Missing Teen Chelsea King | NBC San Diego
Oh Dear God NO! I really hoped this precious baby would come home safely. I mean no disrespect to Chelsea by calling her a "baby", as I know she is a young woman. But to someone my age, she is still a little girl. From everything I've read she is a young lady who did everything right and has a heart of gold.
I read about her younger brother and could not stop thinking about him today. He is too young to participate in the searches for his sister and must feel so helpless. God bless and strengthen her family.
Dear precious Chelsea, you have touched so many hearts.
You are truly an Angel.
Kelly
AmandaReckonwith
02-28-2010, 10:42 PM
Damn.
nadjatheresa
02-28-2010, 10:43 PM
But what are the charges?
Is there ANY chance she is alive, that maybe he held her somewhere?
belimom
02-28-2010, 10:43 PM
Oh no....! This doesn't sound good at all. My bet: the lake... :cry:
On another note, I wonder what evidence they had/have that led to him?
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 10:44 PM
Here's the part that gets me. He's registered in Riverside, but not here. Fat lot of good that does anyone. If anyone had known he was there, she might not have gone there alone. (In our house, we know where all the "local" registered offenders are supposed to be.)
This is assuming this is a guilty party. (Disclaimer because I try to reserve judgment until all the facts are in)
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 10:45 PM
oh God...
i hope someone called in a tip and somehow he has her stashed someplace, afraid to do anything due to the overwhelming publicity...it is a possibility...but not looking good, except for the fact taht they have NOT found a body, so she could be someplace...it has happened before like this...we can pray anyway...
SusanB
02-28-2010, 10:45 PM
No word on where Chelsea is?
SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
02-28-2010, 10:45 PM
Hoping that this arrest leads to finding Chelsea. It's never good when they arrest someone without the child. :(
AmandaReckonwith
02-28-2010, 10:46 PM
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Chelsea%20King/JAGoff.jpg
RunningonEmpty
02-28-2010, 10:46 PM
Was anyone listening to the Sheriff audio online at all today around the time of the arrest (4:30)? Unfortunately, I have been listening rather sporadically.
convicted of lewd & lascivious acts with a child UNDER the age of 14
Melanie
02-28-2010, 10:47 PM
Oh no...not another young woman missing from the San Diego area. There is definitely a predator out there. I was so sorry to see this story in our news this morning.
Can't get this one out of my head. Went to the shops today and saw her missing flyer at the check-out. I'm going out to the search tomorrow (when most are at work). We're finally leaving San Diego on Friday for higher ground, but know kids go missing everywhere.
I'm praying so hard for Chelsea today.
Mel
Mira Mesa
ETA: Just saw the arrest. I am not related to the perp!!
redsky
02-28-2010, 10:47 PM
hoping that this arrest leads to finding chelsea. It's never good when they arrest someone without the child. :(
mte :(
blossomfish
02-28-2010, 10:48 PM
http://nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2deb55c9-d35e-53e0-868c-a1cab480fb13.html
This is so horribly sad...
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 10:48 PM
Here's the part that gets me. He's registered in Riverside, but not here. Fat lot of good that does anyone. If anyone had known he was there, she might not have gone there alone. (In our house, we know where all the "local" registered offenders are supposed to be.)
This is assuming this is a guilty party. (Disclaimer because I try to reserve judgment until all the facts are in)
I said earlier in this thread, it isn't the registered ones in the area we have to worry about. It's guys like this who go off the grid and no one ever checks up on them that are the real danger. Wasn't Jessica Lunsfords killer (I refuse to type that filthy name may he rot in hell) registered in another state but living with his sister???
When is enough enough? These guys should NOT be out among us. They aren't to be trusted. WHY was his life, rights and freedom more precious than Chelsea's? :banghead:
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 10:50 PM
Gardner, John Albert
Address: 1050 Rock Springs Rd # 103
Zip code: 92026
Crime: 288(A) - Lewd Or Lascivious Acts With Child Under 14 Years
Sex: Male
Date of birth: 04-09-1979
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Height: 6'2
Weight: 230
Race: White
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Escondido-California.html#ixzz0gtS9ioak
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:50 PM
Was anyone listening to the Sheriff audio online at all today around the time of the arrest (4:30)? Unfortunately, I have been listening rather sporadically.
I actually got up and went and looked outside b/c I heard the kind of sirens they use that are not the normal blaring ones on a freeway or something, but the kind that are more like a 'look out coming through' type but couldn't see where they were at. It was right around that time because I went and got an early dinner in the kitchen after I went to look. I bet that's what it was.
Ugh.
Oh, and FHC, that photo you mentioned being struck by...I knew the person!
The hearts of the community will continue to pray for and support Chelsea's family.
The blocked off park entrance and way they were acting down by Poblado made me afraid this was coming :(
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 10:51 PM
he is registered in escondido...is that where amber vanished from??
Recovering-Lurker
02-28-2010, 10:51 PM
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Chelsea%20King/JAGoff.jpg
Why do all of these POS's smirk in their mugshots??? :furious:
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 10:52 PM
A suspect has been arrested in the case of missing teen Chelsea King, according to investigators. (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html)
John Gardner was arrested outside a restaurant in Escondido around 4.30 p.m. Gardner is a registered sex offender on the Megan’s law website.
King, 17, went for a run about 2 p.m. Thursday at Rancho Bernardo Community Park. She never came home.
Source: Suspect Arrested in Case of Missing Teen Chelsea King | NBC San Diego
The above article says a lot:
On Sunday afternoon Chelsea's parents sat down for a one-on-one interview. There was no hiding the despair and pain of living without their missing daughter.
"I can't begin to describe the depth of sorrow. It's been a nightmare," said Kelly King. "There's no other way to put it. It's your worst nightmare."
"My body hasn't stopped shaking since I came to the realization of what was occurring," said Brent King. "You just feel a complete amount of emptiness and helplessness.
nadjatheresa
02-28-2010, 10:52 PM
From the article Blossomfish linked:
John Albert Gardner III, a Lake Elsinore resident, was arrested at 4:20 p.m. Sunday in front of a business in the 1900 block of Lake Drive, on the east side of Lake Hodges, Sheriff Bill Gore said at a Sunday evening news conference.
He said physical evidence found on the southern shore of the lake linked him to Chelsea's disappearance. He did not say what the evidence was.
Homicide investigators were questioning Gardner on Sunday evening, Gore said. It is not yet clear what charges he might face.
Gore said Gardner's Lake Elsinore residence had been searched Sunday. He also said the search for the missing girl would continue through the night near Lake Hodges, and possibly in other areas.
"We're holding out that hope," Gore said when questioned whether Chelsea is believed to be alive.
nadjatheresa
02-28-2010, 10:53 PM
Why do all of these POS's smirk in their mugshots??? :furious:
Because they are POS's.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 10:55 PM
You know, this sketch (http://www.10news.com/image/18622589/detail.html) from a reported abduction in Poway earlier in February kinda looks like Gardner.
The girl said he was hispanic, but she was 12...and the sketch doesn't depict him as particularly hispanic looking.
The hairline is remarkably similar, especially, isn't it? The earlier sketch has longer hair, but...?
SusanB
02-28-2010, 10:57 PM
Because they are POS's.
Because they think they are getting away with it. And that they are better than LE
belimom
02-28-2010, 10:58 PM
You know, this sketch (http://www.10news.com/image/18622589/detail.html) from a reported abduction in Poway earlier in February kinda looks like Gardner.
The girl said he was hispanic, but she was 12...and the sketch doesn't depict him as particularly hispanic looking.
The hairline is remarkably similar, especially, isn't it? The earlier sketch has longer hair, but...?
Yes and no. Shape of face, etc: no. BUT... there's a similar "quality" to the mouth/lips, eyes, and the slope of the forehead. I think it may be a match.
DairyGirl
02-28-2010, 10:58 PM
Oh Lord, I pray that somehow they find this child alive.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 11:00 PM
he is registered in escondido...is that where amber vanished from??Yes. Attached is a map of that address (A) to the High School (B). I wonder when he lived there.
Formerslueth
02-28-2010, 11:00 PM
You know, this sketch (http://www.10news.com/image/18622589/detail.html) from a reported abduction in Poway earlier in February kinda looks like Gardner.
The girl said he was hispanic, but she was 12...and the sketch doesn't depict him as particularly hispanic looking.
The hairline is remarkably similar, especially, isn't it? The earlier sketch has longer hair, but...?
Tough to tell. The picture the press has is an old photo from the registry. Let's see what his mug shot looks like.
Formerslueth
02-28-2010, 11:02 PM
Now the hard work begins for the PD. Make a solid case against this guy (if he he is in fact the one).
Hopefully he'll tell them where she is.
redsky
02-28-2010, 11:02 PM
Oh Lord, I pray that somehow they find this child alive.
I do as well.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:03 PM
he is registered in escondido...is that where amber vanished from??
I've not seen anything saying he was registered there? Only that he was arrested there.
But yes, that's where Amber disappeared from and only one exit up the freeway from the park. (Escondido, not precisely where Amber vanished from)
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 11:03 PM
he is registered in escondido...is that where amber vanished from??
Yes.
I'm sure they will look at him as well, but there are 109 REGISTERED sex offenders where Amber disappeared and an inept police department that failed to follow up on anything for days.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:04 PM
The above article says a lot:
On Sunday afternoon Chelsea's parents sat down for a one-on-one interview. There was no hiding the despair and pain of living without their missing daughter.
"I can't begin to describe the depth of sorrow. It's been a nightmare," said Kelly King. "There's no other way to put it. It's your worst nightmare."
"My body hasn't stopped shaking since I came to the realization of what was occurring," said Brent King. "You just feel a complete amount of emptiness and helplessness.
Thanks, they must have added that. Originally it was just the arrest
:(
LLLindsayy
02-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Maybe that comment made earlier about a POI's wallet being found was true. If so, that would definitely lead them to him directly, but also result in the phrase, "It's unclear what he'll be charged with."
Also, it lists his crime as lewd activity with a child under 14. Clearly Chelsea isn't under 14, so I wonder if he's listed under his previous crime. I don't know how that would make sense or if it could even happen like that, but it's what came to my mind first.
belimom
02-28-2010, 11:06 PM
Yes. Attached is a map of that address (A) to the High School (B). I wonder when he lived there.
Can you add Amber's address?
sealevel
02-28-2010, 11:06 PM
more info:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/28/lake-elsinore-man-arrested-poway-teens-disappearan/
belimom
02-28-2010, 11:07 PM
Maybe that comment made earlier about a POI's wallet being found was true. If so, that would definitely lead them to him directly, but also result in the phrase, "It's unclear what he'll be charged with."
Also, it lists his crime as lewd activity with a child under 14. Clearly Chelsea isn't under 14, so I wonder if he's listed under his previous crime. I don't know how that would make sense or if it could even happen like that, but it's what came to my mind first.
I don't think the database has updated with the current charges. And without Chelsea or her body, they probably can't charge him with sexual assault, I'm assuming?
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:08 PM
"Charges have not yet been filed and the investigation is continuing. According to sources, numerous pieces of physical evidence (http://www.10news.com/news/22678790/detail.html) led them to Gardner."
KFMB (http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12048619)
Gore says investigators linked Gardner to the crime through physical evidence recovered by investigators searching Rancho Bernardo Community Park, where King vanished. Gore would not elaborate on the evidence.
Gore says investigators believe Gardner may also be tied to a Dec. 27 assault on a woman in the park.
LLLindsayy
02-28-2010, 11:08 PM
"Gore says investigators believe Gardner may also be tied to a Dec. 27 assault on a woman in the park."
Looks like they think it WAS him.
LLLindsayy
02-28-2010, 11:10 PM
"He said investigators were also looking into any connection between Gardner and Amber Dubois, who disappeared while walking to Escondido High School one morning just over a year ago. Amber was 14 at the time."
At least they're looking into it...
LLLindsayy
02-28-2010, 11:13 PM
I don't think the database has updated with the current charges. And without Chelsea or her body, they probably can't charge him with sexual assault, I'm assuming?
Well, yes. Of course that particular charge isn't related to Chelsea because of the age discrepancy. That's why I suggested perhaps a previous crime.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Homicide investigators were questioning Gardner on Sunday evening, Gore said. It is not yet clear what charges he might face.
Gore said Gardner's Lake Elsinore residence had been searched Sunday. He also said the search for the missing girl would continue through the night near Lake Hodges, and possibly in other areas.
"We're holding out that hope," Gore said when questioned whether Chelsea is believed to be alive.
North County Times (http://nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2deb55c9-d35e-53e0-868c-a1cab480fb13.html)
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 11:14 PM
"He said investigators were also looking into any connection between Gardner and Amber Dubois, who disappeared while walking to Escondido High School one morning just over a year ago. Amber was 14 at the time."
At least they're looking into it...
Different city. Much, much better officers. If there is a connection, they will find it.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:14 PM
The sheriff said the hunt for Chelsea King will continue overnight and will expand beyond the Rancho Bernardo park and adjacent Lake Hodges, which search teams have been combing since the teen disappeared Thursday.
The sheriff also there was “a strong possibility” Gardner may be connected to an attack on a lone female jogger in Rancho Bernardo Community Park that occurred the morning of Dec. 27.
Sign on San Diego/Union-Tribune (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/28/lake-elsinore-man-arrested-poway-teens-disappearan/)
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 11:16 PM
Homicide investigators were questioning Gardner on Sunday evening, Gore said. It is not yet clear what charges he might face.
Gore said Gardner's Lake Elsinore residence had been searched Sunday. He also said the search for the missing girl would continue through the night near Lake Hodges, and possibly in other areas.
"We're holding out that hope," Gore said when questioned whether Chelsea is believed to be alive.
North County Times (http://nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2deb55c9-d35e-53e0-868c-a1cab480fb13.html)
Is it bad to hope he is one of those freaks with a bunker somewhere that he has her hidden in ALIVE?
I know that is naive thinking and the odds are completely against it given the 'evidence' that is being mentioned, but still...
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:16 PM
According to addresses I've seen (and a slightly mistaken one) it appears he was arrested right out in front of Hernandez Hideaway!
Someone mentioned a creepy guy when they were biking back there recently...!
cluciano63
02-28-2010, 11:18 PM
I've not seen anything saying he was registered there? Only that he was arrested there.
But yes, that's where Amber disappeared from and only one exit up the freeway from the park. (Escondido, not precisely where Amber vanished from)
the info i posted above came from a search in CA and I chose Escondido and there he was...so he must be registered there as well, maybe lived there at some point?
Melanie
02-28-2010, 11:21 PM
I've not seen anything saying he was registered there? Only that he was arrested there.
But yes, that's where Amber disappeared from and only one exit up the freeway from the park. (Escondido, not precisely where Amber vanished from)
I just got a lump in my throat. Amber LeeAnne Dubois was last seen walking to Escondido High School.
I'd really like to know what kind of vehicle this SO drives. LE had been looking for a red pick up truck.
Praying for them both tonight --
RunningonEmpty
02-28-2010, 11:21 PM
Does it mention where he was staying with his mother in proximity to the trails and where they found the evidence on the south side?
How could this man have done this at 2 p.m. in broad daylight so close to those homes without anyone seeing?! Where did he take her!?!?! sorry - I am angry and outraged that this could not have been prevented.
According to addresses I've seen (and a slightly mistaken one) it appears he was arrested right out in front of Hernandez Hideaway!
Someone mentioned a creepy guy when they were biking back there recently...!
Is it true that his mother owns a home bordering the park?
TheMentalist
02-28-2010, 11:23 PM
I shutter to think what this pig might of done to Chelsea and possibly others. It just goes to show you...they look like everyone else. This one is only 30 years old ...you cant trust noone and again always take someone with you. Always. I know that we the public are not informed on the details of the case as they occur but Im sure her parents have been informed from the get go...no wonder Chelsea's mother had such utter dispair on her face in some of the pictures taken. My heart goes out to this family.
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 11:28 PM
the info i posted above came from a search in CA and I chose Escondido and there he was...so he must be registered there as well, maybe lived there at some point?
They mentioned that his Lake Elsinore home was search as well as his mother's residence, which borders the park.
belimom
02-28-2010, 11:28 PM
Homicide investigators were questioning Gardner on Sunday evening, Gore said. ..(snipped)...
I think if she were still alive, he would have told them by now. :(
JBmom
02-28-2010, 11:30 PM
According to addresses I've seen (and a slightly mistaken one) it appears he was arrested right out in front of Hernandez Hideaway!
Someone mentioned a creepy guy when they were biking back there recently...!
Yes, that was me. The guy I saw had longer hair.... his eyes look similar. I'll be interested to see a more recent picture. He was a big guy.
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 11:32 PM
Does it mention where he was staying with his mother in proximity to the trails and where they found the evidence on the south side?
How could this man have done this at 2 p.m. in broad daylight so close to those homes without anyone seeing?! Where did he take her!?!?! sorry - I am angry and outraged that this could not have been prevented.
They strongly suspect he was the one who attacked the woman in the park in December. That also happened in broad daylight. It is the risk you take even on a well traveled trail. I remember a little boy who disappeared hiking with his entire family in Arizona in daylight - he turned a corner in a trail and they came around to find him gone. No trace. Also, that boy in Utah that was sent from the river back to the campsite, which was a matter of a few hundred feet I thought? Daylight doesn't protect you when you are alone. Judging by the size of this guy, even jogging with a buddy might not have helped her unless he chose to wait for another female jogger who was alone.
I'm afraid he didn't take her anywhere until he was all done. :furious:
nadjatheresa
02-28-2010, 11:32 PM
It is strange, the timing, with Amber's disappearance February 13, Danielle Van Dam's body found February 27, and now this.
LilysMom
02-28-2010, 11:33 PM
Yes, that was me. The guy I saw had longer hair.... his eyes look similar. I'll be interested to see a more recent picture. He was a big guy.
Did you see him anywhere near where they are searching?
He may have long hair by now. Who knows how old this shot of him is.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:34 PM
Is it true that his mother owns a home bordering the park?
I have seen that in several places, yes.
There is an individual with that surname living on a street that is very close to the park, yes. There are also two different ones with that surname living on the north side of the lake relatively up near the trail on the north side.
But given that they were intensively searching the south side and had the north side open to the public, I think if they had thought she was on the north side and/or abducted there, they'd have not allowed people over there by where those other two homes are.
But I'd say it's also not necessarily the case that the mom shares the surname. So that's complicating things. I'm going to look into the three names/addresses that seem plausible to see if there's a relative by that name.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:36 PM
Also, given that the other lady was attacked in the same area on the south side, I would also think that ups the odds that there is some residence on the south side he has a tie to. The one female I found there would seem to be a sisterly age versus a mother. I wonder if he has family on both sides of the lake?
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 11:37 PM
Can you add Amber's address?
I don't know it. If anyone has it, let me know.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:39 PM
Escondido High School where Amber disappeared from is on the opposite end of Escondido from the Lake, where he was arrested, and where Chelsea disappeared from...BUT it IS on the way to Lake Elsinore where he apparently still has some degree of a home from reports.
I have seen that in several places, yes.
There is an individual with that surname living on a street that is very close to the park, yes. There are also two different ones with that surname living on the north side of the lake relatively up near the trail on the north side.
But given that they were intensively searching the south side and had the north side open to the public, I think if they had thought she was on the north side and/or abducted there, they'd have not allowed people over there by where those other two homes are.
But I'd say it's also not necessarily the case that the mom shares the surname. So that's complicating things. I'm going to look into the three names/addresses that seem plausible to see if there's a relative by that name.
His full name is John Albert Gardner III, if that helps.
blossomfish
02-28-2010, 11:40 PM
Here is another update - the article mentions that Gore said: “At this time it would be in the best interest for the successful prosecution of Gardner that the evidence not be revealed in a public forum.”
It also says that the suspect was arrested outside a restaurant in Escondido.
Source: Suspect Arrested in Case of Missing Teen Chelsea King | NBC San Diego
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html
JBmom
02-28-2010, 11:41 PM
Did you see him anywhere near where they are searching?
He may have long hair by now. Who knows how old this shot of him is.
I saw this person in two different places. First walking with a black garbage bag Northeast toward the parking lot on the Northern-most finger of Lake Hodges. I then saw him 10-15 minutes later headed in the opposite direction (without the bag) on the hiking/biking trail just a few minutes from Hernandez Hideaway.
Ghostwheel
02-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Escondido High School where Amber disappeared from is on the opposite end of Escondido from the Lake, where he was arrested, and where Chelsea disappeared from...BUT it IS on the way to Lake Elsinore where he apparently still has some degree of a home from reports. cluciano63 posted a site where he was registered in Escondido at one time, on Rock Springs road. I posted a map showing that it was not far from his registered address to Escondido High School. I cannot find out WHEN he lived at that address, though. It could have been a year ago.
lightlady
02-28-2010, 11:47 PM
JBMom, did you report what you saw to LE? That sounds like it could be important if it really was him, and it might be worth a call to them now that they have someone in custody that has similar eyes.
Melanie
02-28-2010, 11:49 PM
I think if she were still alive, he would have told them by now. :(
I know belimom -- if you're lucky enough to last the first 24 hours in the hands of a SO it's a miracle. He could, praying, have her hidden somewhere and LE needs to find her asap. If I remember correctly, LE fooked up when they searched couey's home while jessica was still alive. We have some pretty good detectives here, so I don't see that happening here. Especially after the Westerfield case.
I know there will be few of us getting any sleep tonight -- I know I won't until I hear from LE.
pray, pray pray -- light a candle...
Mel
Sharedspirit
02-28-2010, 11:50 PM
I saw this person in two different places. First walking with a black garbage bag Northeast toward the parking lot on the Northern-most finger of Lake Hodges. I then saw him 10-15 minutes later headed in the opposite direction (without the bag) on the hiking/biking trail just a few minutes from Hernandez Hideaway.
Hopefully they will release a recent photo of the suspect in custody.
JBmom
02-28-2010, 11:51 PM
I am watching for more info and will definitely contact LE if appropriate. Eek.
TravelingBug
02-28-2010, 11:53 PM
cluciano63 posted a site where he was registered in Escondido at one time, on Rock Springs road. I posted a map showing that it was not far from his registered address to Escondido High School. I cannot find out WHEN he lived at that address, though. It could have been a year ago.
Wow! Now that I found the address as well (missed it earlier with all the posts) it's no wonder it's plausible he was also involved with Amber's disappearance!
belimom
02-28-2010, 11:56 PM
Wow! Now that I found the address as well (missed it earlier with all the posts) it's no wonder it's plausible he was also involved with Amber's disappearance!
I wonder if he drives/drove a burgundy truck. Remember the news that one was spotted at her school that morning and also belongs to someone who (sexually?) assaulted two children? Hope I have the facts straight - but something like that?
Sharedspirit
02-28-2010, 11:56 PM
The suspect could be employed at the Hideway?
KaylynnCouture
03-01-2010, 12:02 AM
Wow. I really really really hope Chelsea is still alive, but with the news of a suspect being arrested..it's not looking like it. :(
I hope this helps bring justice to Chelseas family, as well as Amber Dubois's. They both deserve answers.
blossomfish
03-01-2010, 12:03 AM
Don't think he was employed at the restaurant - I posted an article from nbcsandiego.com about 10 posts ago which said he had just eaten at the restaurant and the manager who waited on him had not seen him there before.
KaylynnCouture
03-01-2010, 12:04 AM
Chelsea's parents release a message to their daughter..
"Baby girl, we love you. You're coming home. Be strong, be as strong as I know you are," said Kelly King. "Sweetie, we love you. We love you with all of our heart and we're waiting. We're here honey. We're gonna find you."
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html
This is so heartbreaking. :(
KaylynnCouture
03-01-2010, 12:07 AM
I wonder if he drives/drove a burgundy truck. Remember the news that one was spotted at her school that morning and also belongs to someone who (sexually?) assaulted two children? Hope I have the facts straight - but something like that?
Good question. Normally sex offender registries post the vehicles the sex offenders own on their registry page, but it doesn't look like California does.
Melanie
03-01-2010, 12:07 AM
The suspect could be employed at the Hideway?
All I know is he's too darn close to me, my son, and the 2 schools down the street. It's a picking ground for creeps like him. EEK is right!
Mel
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:10 AM
The suspect could be employed at the Hideway?
I don't think so.
A waitress said he had just eaten there and she had never seen him in the restaurant before.
LilysMom
03-01-2010, 12:11 AM
Chelsea's parents release a message to their daughter..
"Baby girl, we love you. You're coming home. Be strong, be as strong as I know you are," said Kelly King. "Sweetie, we love you. We love you with all of our heart and we're waiting. We're here honey. We're gonna find you."
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html
This is so heartbreaking. :(
I'm sobbing right now.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:12 AM
Two places are saying there are LEO going door to door in Westwood. Not sure if that's true or not, trying to confirm with someone.
Melanie
03-01-2010, 12:18 AM
The Hideaway Restaurant in Escondio is right next to Lake Hodges, the same area where LE has spent the last several days searching. Do we have a Scott Peterson on our hands (going back to the crime scene). We know the mgr. said the SO had never been in the restaurant before.
19320 Lake Dr, Escondido, CA 92029
John Albert Gardner III, 30, of Lake Elsinore, was taken into custody in front of an Escondido business at 4:20 p.m. on Lake Drive near Rancho Drive in Escondido, Gore said.
I'd like to know what he was doing in that (not so popular) restaurant.
Mel
trigger
03-01-2010, 12:19 AM
Chelsea's parents release a message to their daughter..
"Baby girl, we love you. You're coming home. Be strong, be as strong as I know you are," said Kelly King. "Sweetie, we love you. We love you with all of our heart and we're waiting. We're here honey. We're gonna find you."
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Suspect-Arrested-in-Case-of-Missing-Teen-Chelsea-King--.html
This is so heartbreaking. :(
OMG. I just got home and just found out of the arrest, Im so upset. Will this ever end????
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:19 AM
Here is an official statement from Kelly and Brent King just being released to the media:
Statement from King Family as of 9 p.m. February 28
Kelly and Brent King, parents of Chelsea King, offer the following comments this evening:”Nothing will change for us until our beautiful daughter, Chelsea King, comes home. We ...will continue searching for her, and we ask that all of you do the same until she’s back with us. She is an extraordinary daughter and also someone who is committed to her community. She has huge dreams and wants to change the world. Hundreds of people are working alongside us to make sure she has that chance, and we are deeply grateful. She and our entire family need your help now for Chelsea’s safe return. We thank law enforcement for pursuing all avenues to bring this situation to an expedient, positive outcome. We will be posting regular updates from our family on Facebook page: Chelsea King Search Center.“ Kelly & Brent King, and family
RunningonEmpty
03-01-2010, 12:20 AM
What sort of evidence do you think they found that so surely links Chelsea to John Gardner? I mean I am thinking about the rain all day Saturday being a significant factor in eliminating evidence that links, but maybe you can post your thoughts.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:21 AM
The Hideaway Restaurant in Escondio is right next to Lake Hodges, the same area where LE has spent the last several days searching. Do we have a Scott Peterson on our hands (going back to the crime scene). We know the mgr. said the SO had never been in the restaurant before.
19320 Lake Dr, Escondido, CA 92029
John Albert Gardner III, 30, of Lake Elsinore, was taken into custody in front of an Escondido business at 4:20 p.m. on Lake Drive near Rancho Drive in Escondido, Gore said.
I'd like to know what he was doing in that (not so popular) restaurant.
Mel
It's a very popular (with locals) restaurant, but it's on the opposite side of the lake from where they have been doing the major searches and where evidence has reportedly been found.
Melanie
03-01-2010, 12:21 AM
Two places are saying there are LEO going door to door in Westwood. Not sure if that's true or not, trying to confirm with someone.
As in Westwood, Los Angeles??
Thanks, Mel
glitterghost
03-01-2010, 12:21 AM
~~~WOW~~~
So I read and posted a comment this morning, stepped away from the computer all day, just log on and all of a sudden I see all this talk about a strange person leaving comments and an arrest!! I tried to catch myself up but reading backwards has gotten me confused. Can anyone give a synapsis on what has occured this afternoon/this evening?
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:22 AM
Link (http://www.necn.com/02/28/10/Gardner-arrested-in-Chelsea-Kings-disapp/landing.html?blockID=188563&feedID=4215)to press conference around 7 pm
trigger
03-01-2010, 12:22 AM
Two places are saying there are LEO going door to door in Westwood. Not sure if that's true or not, trying to confirm with someone.
It was just on the radio, doing door to door searches to see if anyone has seen anything. This is just sickening.
Sharedspirit
03-01-2010, 12:23 AM
If they are still going door to door, maybe he wasn't acting alone and there is still a chance they could find her alive. Praying for a miracle here!
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:24 AM
As in Westwood, Los Angeles??
Thanks, Mel
No, Westwood the neighborhood on the south side of Lake Hodges where the park is and where evidence was reportedly found.
Melanie
03-01-2010, 12:24 AM
It's a very popular (with locals) restaurant, but it's on the opposite side of the lake from where they have been doing the major searches and where evidence has reportedly been found.
Thanks. Must be a local haunt, as the web gives it mixed reviews. So if it's on the opposite side of the lake, would it be a place where he could see what was going on?
Thanks so much.
Mel
ETA: Can you tell I don't get to that area much! Lord a mercy....
RunningonEmpty
03-01-2010, 12:27 AM
I'd like to know what he was doing in that (not so popular) restaurant.
Mel
Obviously he thought he could "hide" at the hideaway - very clever - NOT.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:29 AM
Thanks. Must be a local haunt, as the web gives it mixed reviews. So if it's on the opposite side of the lake, would it be a place where he could see what was going on?
Thanks so much.
Mel
ETA: Can you tell I don't get to that area much! Lord a mercy....
Very unlikely.
Posting a map in a minute
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 12:29 AM
Maybe this offender is not working alone. Perhaps he was meeting up with someone at the resturant or in the vicinity. Or maybe he this offender specializes in express kidnappings as well as being a sicko himself. I think after reading about Amber that there is a link there. I think law enforcement and the feds are going to bust out another big story shortly. Im waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Sharedspirit
03-01-2010, 12:32 AM
Was't the FBI called in very early on? Maybe they were already watching this guy? Just me thinking out loud.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:33 AM
Here's my map now updated.
The orange cop guy is where the arrest happened.
The green circle is the waterfall area at the south part of the lake where there was significant activity the past two days.
you can barely see the yellow $ sign just below the green circle. That's where all the LEO were today and where the other attack happened.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2796/4397607786_dd033fcc7d_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48023608@N08/4397607786/)
Remember, you can click to see it up close on flicker and then zoom in
As always, the blue car is about where her car was parked.
cluciano63
03-01-2010, 12:34 AM
maybe since she was not found at the sight of the evidence he did take her someplace else...and it is POSSIBLE that he had not had a chance to do anything before he saw the park being swarmed with police? and has her hidden someplace alive? on the other hand, the massive police presence could have caused him to panic if he had not already acted...
i hope whatever evidence they have found or do find is definitive...and not something for a defense attorney to explain away if he is guilty...
RunningonEmpty
03-01-2010, 12:36 AM
On a more positive note, it's amazing the guy stuck around, and SO CLOSE TO THE SCENE. Hopefully this means we will find Chelsea very soon.
cluciano63
03-01-2010, 12:39 AM
ps-i hate the thought of the coach telling the girls just a week ago not to run alone, if this is true as indicated in an earlier post...but teens do tend to think they are indestructible, sadly...
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 12:40 AM
Didnt I read that they had found some evidence that they thought may have drifted or washed up from another area in the park ...werent they talking about this early on? Is there a current on that lake and does anyone know which way the current runs?
Also I am not familiar with this park is it a state park or a federal park? I know the newsmedia kept saying that the resources brought to bear in this missing persons case was unprecedented. Anyone who might know please advise.
cluciano63
03-01-2010, 12:46 AM
i figured they must have found something of his with something of hers...there must be so many lost, tossed items in any area of that size, i just assumed they found some incriminating items together...
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 12:55 AM
Didnt I read that they had found some evidence that they thought may have drifted or washed up from another area in the park ...werent they talking about this early on? Is there a current on that lake and does anyone know which way the current runs?
Also I am not familiar with this park is it a state park or a federal park? I know the newsmedia kept saying that the resources brought to bear in this missing persons case was unprecedented. Anyone who might know please advise.
It's operated by the City of San Diego Water Dept.
The response had more to do with the way it was handled from the get go - the immediate response of parents and working with AT&T immediately to have her records within minutes of realizing she should be home, them pushing the Sheriff to respond (Poway is far better than many places response wise), huge public outswelling of support which got attention to the case within hours, etc.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 01:03 AM
KUSI 9/51 at 10
Family trying to remain hopeful that she will be found. That is their ultimate goal.
Deputies have been searching his parents home near Lake Hodges in the last few hours. They are also invesigating the previous assault as probably related, and stressing possibly, a tie to Amber Dubois.
LilysMom
03-01-2010, 01:03 AM
ps-i hate the thought of the coach telling the girls just a week ago not to run alone, if this is true as indicated in an earlier post...but teens do tend to think they are indestructible, sadly...
I don't know how much of it is thinking they are indestructible and how much is just making a not so wise decision. How many poor choices have we made 'in the moment' (so to speak) ourselves over the years but have never had anything bad happen to us? We've been very lucky. Some people just aren't. That choice to walk home in the dark instead of taking the bus because it's quicker, the choice to cut through a field instead of sticking to the road, the choice to help a stranger...sometimes we get away with things and other times those choices cost us.
In fact, I want to add that my brother and his bestfriend decided they had to have candy at 2am when they were only 10 years old so they snuck out of the house and down to the Circle K (at least a mile one way from our house). My mom had a knock on the front door (my dad was out of town) and answered it to a police officer with a boy in each hand. He told my mom, "Poway is a relatively safe town, ma'am, but I still wouldn't want to be taking any chances." That was in 1982. Not such a wise decision on my brother's part and he is very lucky that a cop caught them.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:04 AM
I realize that Lake Hodges is a Resevoir...Im trying to determine if it is BLM land or borders federal land etc? I also found it remarkable at how fast the FBI got involved. This was really out of the norm. I do applaude the parents for being ontop of it so quickly, but I am wondering as another poster asked earlier if perhaps the Feds were involved in some other investigation that pointed their focus on this missing Poway Teen.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 01:08 AM
I believe his parents may live in Escondido, basically across the bridge pathway on the north side of the lake. It's the area known as the Lomas Serenas.
The home is back just a bit from the northerly trail, but it connects with the lower trail that is what people run/bike (most of the time) on the north side.
It's a sloping hill down to the path if the home I've identified is correct, but it's very doable. I did it just a few blocks from there down to the lake often when I was a young child visiting a relative who lived over on that side of the lake.
blossomfish
03-01-2010, 01:11 AM
KUSI 9/51 at 10
Family trying to remain hopeful that she will be found. That is their ultimate goal.
Deputies have been searching his parents home near Lake Hodges in the last few hours. They are also invesigating the previous assault as probably related, and stressing possibly, a tie to Amber Dubois.
I hope they are checking his computer, phone, etc. as well.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 01:12 AM
I realize that Lake Hodges is a Resevoir...Im trying to determine if it is BLM land or borders federal land etc? I also found it remarkable at how fast the FBI got involved. This was really out of the norm. I do applaude the parents for being ontop of it so quickly, but I am wondering as another poster asked earlier if perhaps the Feds were involved in some other investigation that pointed their focus on this missing Poway Teen.
Perhaps it has to do with our proximity to the border and them finding something that indicated from the get go that she had be abducted and so worrying he would cross the border with her?
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 01:15 AM
Here's the court/arrest information for him:
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/wij/wijDetail.aspx?BookNum=10715497
ARREST INFORMATION
Arrest Agency: San Diego Sheriff Office Date Booked: 02/28/2010 Time Booked: 20:10:14
Central Div. Felony Arr. 03/03/2010 13:30:00
Voice4theSilent
03-01-2010, 01:17 AM
I just read some chatter on a Facebook site in connection to this case that states 5 or so police units left the station where he was being questioned at a high rate of speed to his parents house. (I see no confirmation of this in the news, just on Facebook.)
Ghostwheel
03-01-2010, 01:18 AM
Out in left field here. I'm wondering if LE is going to start looking in Lake Elsinore (assuming he still has an apartment in Lake Elsinore, that could be years old). If there is a way to check mileage on his car (gas receipts or oil changes, maybe), they could tell if he traveled a lot of miles recently (that's a shot in the dark, of course).
Work with this scenario: The suspect's mother's house is near the trails. She was not home at the time. The suspect attacks the missing person, takes the missing person home or to his vehicle, drives her to his apartment in Lake Elsinore (if he really still has an apartment in Lake Elsinore) leaves the missing person wherever and returns home. This can easily be done in about three hours. A little far-fetched, though, being as there are many places between here and Lake Elsinore that would be easier to leave someone. I'm sure they are checking his car, though. I'm looking at that access road and seeing several places a truck or SUV could make to the trails.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:21 AM
If any of this property was Federal Property it would explain their interest and involvement from the start. Interstate commerce or crossing state line is something that would come into play later when it was determined that someone took her and left the state. Or kidnapping is another thing that would involve the feds. Like I said earlier...there is more to this story to come. I hope they hurry up and tell us whats up!
Voice4theSilent
03-01-2010, 01:23 AM
Out in left field here. I'm wondering if LE is going to start looking in Lake Elsinore (assuming he still has an apartment in Lake Elsinore, that could be years old). If there is a way to check mileage on his car (gas receipts or oil changes, maybe), they could tell if he traveled a lot of miles recently (that's a shot in the dark, of course).
Work with this scenario: The suspect's mother's house is near the trails. She was not home at the time. The suspect attacks the missing person, takes the missing person home or to his vehicle, drives her to his apartment in Lake Elsinore (if he really still has an apartment in Lake Elsinore) leaves the missing person wherever and returns home. This can easily be done in about three hours. A little far-fetched, though, being as there are many places between here and Lake Elsinore that would be easier to leave someone. I'm sure they are checking his car, though. I'm looking at that access road and seeing several places a truck or SUV could make to the trails.
I read in one of the articles on his arrest that his residence in Lake Elsinore was searched today. He also received a vehicle code citation in the county of Riverside in January so it appears he travels between the two.
trigger
03-01-2010, 01:24 AM
Here's the court/arrest information for him:
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/wij/wijDetail.aspx?BookNum=10715497
ARREST INFORMATION
Arrest Agency: San Diego Sheriff Office Date Booked: 02/28/2010 Time Booked: 20:10:14
Central Div. Felony Arr. 03/03/2010 13:30:00
I guess search warrants are next.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:26 AM
Out in left field here. I'm wondering if LE is going to start looking in Lake Elsinore (assuming he still has an apartment in Lake Elsinore, that could be years old). If there is a way to check mileage on his car (gas receipts or oil changes, maybe), they could tell if he traveled a lot of miles recently (that's a shot in the dark, of course).
Work with this scenario: The suspect's mother's house is near the trails. She was not home at the time. The suspect attacks the missing person, takes the missing person home or to his vehicle, drives her to his apartment in Lake Elsinore (if he really still has an apartment in Lake Elsinore) leaves the missing person wherever and returns home. This can easily be done in about three hours. A little far-fetched, though, being as there are many places between here and Lake Elsinore that would be easier to leave someone. I'm sure they are checking his car, though. I'm looking at that access road and seeing several places a truck or SUV could make to the trails.
I read in the last news article on the perp being arrested that Bill Gore said that they were continuing to search many areas of the county for Chelsea...so I think he is saying something without saying something if you know what I mean.
SoCalMom
03-01-2010, 01:26 AM
Gardner, John Albert
Address: 1050 Rock Springs Rd # 103
Zip code: 92026
Crime: 288(A) - Lewd Or Lascivious Acts With Child Under 14 Years
Sex: Male
Date of birth: 04-09-1979
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Height: 6'2
Weight: 230
Race: White
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Escondido-California.html#ixzz0gtS9ioak
This is awful. If this address is correct, it's about 2 miles from Escondido High School, where Amber Dubois disappeared. Amber lived on Fire Mountain Place, about a mile in the opposite direction, and walked to school on the day of her disappearance. These addresses are all within a very small radius of each other.
For those not familiar with Rancho Bernardo and Escondido, RB Community Park is immediately south of and adjacent to the southern most part of Escondido. As I mentioned earlier, Kit Carson Park is in this southern part of Escondido (2 miles from RB Community Park), and there was a 17-year-old cross country runner grabbed while running in the park in early September. The description of the attacker provided in the North County Times fits the general description of the attacker from December and could easily describe Gardner. Was that another attempt by Gardner? I believe I may have seen Gardner at the girls softball complex at Kit Carson Park in the last 2 weeks -- I just can't remember what night it was. :-(
Escondido High School (and the other addresses in the Amber Dubois case) is about 9 miles north of RB Community Park. It's still very close, but it's the existence of the Rock Springs Road address for Gardner that sends chills up my spine -- WAY too much of a coincidence.
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 01:27 AM
I sent an email request for the charges and this is what I got back. So sad :(
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 1
Bail Flag: N
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:MURDER:FIRST DEGREE
Code:PC
Statute:187(A) PC
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 2
Bail Flag: I
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:RAPE BY FORCE/FEAR/ETC
Code:PC
Statute:261(A)(2) PC
Bail Flag Codes:
Y or I - Charge is eligible for bail.
H or N - Inmate may not be bailed out on that given charge.
B - Bail is not required on this charge.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:27 AM
I read in one of the articles on his arrest that his residence in Lake Elsinore was searched today. He also received a vehicle code citation in the county of Riverside in January so it appears he travels between the two.
Riverside County is huge....can you define that to a smaller area of Riverside?
SoCalMom
03-01-2010, 01:31 AM
Gardner was charged with first degree murder (PC 187A).
This is not a good sign.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 01:32 AM
This is awful. If this address is correct, it's about 2 miles from Escondido High School, where Amber Dubois disappeared. Amber lived on Fire Mountain Place, about a mile in the opposite direction, and walked to school on the day of her disappearance. These addresses are all within a very small radius of each other.
For those not familiar with Rancho Bernardo and Escondido, RB Community Park is immediately south of and adjacent to the southern most part of Escondido. As I mentioned earlier, Kit Carson Park is in this southern part of Escondido (2 miles from RB Community Park), and there was a 17-year-old cross country runner grabbed while running in the park in early September. The description of the attacker provided in the North County Times fits the general description of the attacker from December and could easily describe Gardner. Was that another attempt by Gardner? I believe I may have seen Gardner at the girls softball complex at Kit Carson Park in the last 2 weeks -- I just can't remember what night it was. :-(
Escondido High School (and the other addresses in the Amber Dubois case) is about 9 miles north of RB Community Park. It's still very close, but it's the existence of the Rock Springs Road address for Gardner that sends chills up my spine -- WAY too much of a coincidence.
And then there's that other attempted abduction (well, I guess she was taken for awhile and released - a 12 year old) with a sketch that looked a bit like Gardner too, and that was in Poway...obviously that may fit in, as well.
Ghostwheel
03-01-2010, 01:33 AM
If any of this property was Federal Property it would explain their interest and involvement from the start. Interstate commerce or crossing state line is something that would come into play later when it was determined that someone took her and left the state. Or kidnapping is another thing that would involve the feds. Like I said earlier...there is more to this story to come. I hope they hurry up and tell us whats up!
The property around Lake Hodges is owned by San Diego City and maintained by San Dieguito River Park rangers and volunteers. I have a feeling they found something early on that indicated kidnapping (and kept it quiet), thereby having a need for FBI. I agree there will be more, they're just keeping a lid on it.
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 01:34 AM
Sadly, they must have some strong evidence if he was arrested for 1st degree murder and rape. I am praying for her family and for a miracle. I never wanted LE to be wrong more then I do now.
trigger
03-01-2010, 01:34 AM
I sent an email request for the charges and this is what I got back. So sad :(
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 1
Bail Flag: N
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:MURDER:FIRST DEGREE
Code:PC
Statute:187(A) PC
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 2
Bail Flag: I
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:RAPE BY FORCE/FEAR/ETC
Code:PC
Statute:261(A)(2) PC
Bail Flag Codes:
Y or I - Charge is eligible for bail.
H or N - Inmate may not be bailed out on that given charge.
B - Bail is not required on this charge.
OMG. I wonder if they found her body to charge him with murder. My heart is broken.
Ghostwheel
03-01-2010, 01:34 AM
I sent an email request for the charges and this is what I got back. So sad :(
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 1
Bail Flag: N
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:MURDER:FIRST DEGREE
Code:PC
Statute:187(A) PC
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 2
Bail Flag: I
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:RAPE BY FORCE/FEAR/ETC
Code:PC
Statute:261(A)(2) PC
Bail Flag Codes:
Y or I - Charge is eligible for bail.
H or N - Inmate may not be bailed out on that given charge.
B - Bail is not required on this charge.
This tells me they have DNA.
Voice4theSilent
03-01-2010, 01:35 AM
Riverside County is huge....can you define that to a smaller area of Riverside?
I wish I could but I can't seem to find the info on where the citation was given.
http://public-access.riverside.courts.ca.gov/OpenAccess/criminal/criminalcasereport.asp?defendantcount=1&courtcode=C&casenumber=112535JG&defnbr=2010292&defseq=1&otnmseq=0&defendantcount=1&dsn=&casedefendants=ON&statussummary=ON&charges=ON&probation=ON&relatedcases=ON&alldisposedcases=ON&actions=ON&fineinfo=ON&Submit=Format+the+Report
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 01:35 AM
"His home in Lake Elsinore was searched yesterday, Gore said. A neighbor said officers were especially interested in a shed behind the two-story house."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/28/lake-elsinore-man-arrested-poway-teens-disappearan/
Melanie
03-01-2010, 01:36 AM
Here's the court/arrest information for him:
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/wij/wijDetail.aspx?BookNum=10715497
ARREST INFORMATION
Arrest Agency: San Diego Sheriff Office Date Booked: 02/28/2010 Time Booked: 20:10:14
Central Div. Felony Arr. 03/03/2010 13:30:00
Good, so he was picked up today around 4 -- then spent 5-6 hours with investigators, before being processed. While I'm pleased with the process, I won't be happy until Chelsea is found.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:37 AM
Gardner was charged with first degree murder (PC 187A).
This is not a good sign.
Like I said I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.
It doesnt sound like he is cooperating so he must be looking at some rather heavy charges. Any information on additional charges pending????
sc2714
03-01-2010, 01:37 AM
Murder and rape, without a body? :(
Melanie
03-01-2010, 01:40 AM
OMG. I wonder if they found her body to charge him with murder. My heart is broken.
Me, too -- they must have a confession or very strong physical evidence. I'm crying....
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 1
Bail Flag: N
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:MURDER:FIRST DEGREE
Code:PC
Statute:187(A) PC
Arrest: 1
Charge#: 2
Bail Flag: I
Bail Amount:$0.00
Description:RAPE BY FORCE/FEAR/ETC
Code:PC
Statute:261(A)(2) PC
Bail Flag Codes:
Y or I - Charge is eligible for bail.
H or N - Inmate may not be bailed out on that given charge.
B - Bail is not required on this charge.
Ghostwheel
03-01-2010, 01:41 AM
Riverside County is huge....can you define that to a smaller area of Riverside?
Here is a map of Rancho Bernardo to Lake Elsinore and another of Lake Elsinore. Does that help?
Elphaba
03-01-2010, 01:43 AM
I hope her parents have been made aware of the murder and rape charges... it would be awful if they find out about it through others on the internet and all...
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:45 AM
You must be kidding!!!!
Eligible for bail????
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 01:46 AM
I hope her parents have been made aware of the murder and rape charges... it would be awful if they find out about it through others on the internet and all...
I'm wondering if the charges are more recent. I don't know why they didn't mention them during the press conference and why they said they still hoped to find her alive.
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 01:46 AM
You must be kidding!!!!
Eligible for bail????
On the rape charge, not on the murder charge.
cluciano63
03-01-2010, 01:48 AM
it said N for bail didn't it?
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 01:49 AM
it said N for bail didn't it?
On the murder charges, yes.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 01:50 AM
Yes but he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Remember our great system we have. I doubt from the time they snatched him up that they did not have time to get him in front of a judge.
trigger
03-01-2010, 01:52 AM
Thanks everyone.for all your posts. Pray she is found safe and will be home with her family.
Goodnight
Blue_Dolphin308
03-01-2010, 01:53 AM
search warrant has been served at his parents house
Elphaba
03-01-2010, 01:57 AM
Saw the ABC report where Gore said that charges had not been determined yet... so something obviously happened in the case between that report and us now finding out that jail info says that he has been charged with murder and rape. :(
SoCalMom
03-01-2010, 01:57 AM
It's almost 11 p.m. locally, and a helicopter is overhead again.
Blue_Dolphin308
03-01-2010, 01:58 AM
It's almost 11 p.m. locally, and a helicopter is overhead again.
would coincide with the 5 cop cars racing towards his parents house about 20 mins ago!
Voice4theSilent
03-01-2010, 01:59 AM
search warrant has been served at his parents house
Thank you! Do you have a link?
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:00 AM
Yes but he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Remember our great system we have. I doubt from the time they snatched him up that they did not have time to get him in front of a judge.
I posted this earlier, but this is his court date it seems
03/03/2010 13:30:00
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/wij/wijDetail.aspx?BookNum=10715497
Also, helicopter was just circling overhead again.
Invisible
03-01-2010, 02:01 AM
Yes.
I'm sure they will look at him as well, but there are 109 REGISTERED sex offenders where Amber disappeared and an inept police department that failed to follow up on anything for days.
Yep, I couldn't agree with you more...I wish I could have thanked you for your post more than once.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:01 AM
Ooh! I was right about the other address in Westwood that I was guessing was a sister/sister in law! They showed those homes that are like those by Matinal, or that area, rather.
It's those white duplex type homes they are searching at the moment that are along West Bernardo, Matinal, etc. They showed it very clearly on KNSD and KFMB.
That also puts it very close access wise to the Poblado attack!
Melanie
03-01-2010, 02:02 AM
Recent traffic violation charges.
Case 112535JG Defendant 2010292 GARDNER, JOHN ALBERT
Filed Charges
Count Charge Severity Description Violation Date Plea Status
1 VC 4000A1 I No evidence of Current Registration 01/30/2010 ACTIVE
2 VC 16028A I No Proof Financial Responsibil 01/30/2010 ACTIVE
RunningonEmpty
03-01-2010, 02:04 AM
This is so surreal for me. Please let this nightmare end, all I want is that amazing young woman to return to the arms of her pain-stricken parents.:cry: Please oh please.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 02:06 AM
I posted this earlier, but this is his court date it seems
03/03/2010 13:30:00
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/wij/wijDetail.aspx?BookNum=10715497
Also, helicopter was just circling overhead again.
Wow TravelingBug, it looks like they are going to hit him with more charges they are not rushing to arraignment. That is interesting.
Elphaba
03-01-2010, 02:07 AM
I swear, I think WS is the only site so far that knows about the murder and rape charges, because it isn't showing up on Twitter chatter or anything within the social networks.
Melanie
03-01-2010, 02:08 AM
You must be kidding!!!!
Eligible for bail????
He has to be in front of a judge first. This gives LE a couple of days to pull the case together. I doubt they'e going to put a murder/rapist out in the county. If they do - there might by some civilian justice needed. That would reallly make me angry!
Mel
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:08 AM
KGTV (10) is saying that DNA evidence on Chelsea's underwear linked Gardner to her. (That explains the rape charge)
RunningonEmpty
03-01-2010, 02:09 AM
would coincide with the 5 cop cars racing towards his parents house about 20 mins ago!
Seems like this would be a good time to listen to the audio feed... here is the link again:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?ctid=219
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 02:09 AM
I swear, I think WS is the only site so far that knows about the murder and rape charges, because it isn't showing up on Twitter chatter or anything within the social networks.
I am suspecting that someone on WS has a law enforcement background or friend or family member in LE.
***Do we know if the murder charge is in relation to Chelsea King? There is the possiblity of Amber...so do we know that this charge is directly related to Chelsea and if so why are they not saying that they believe she is expired ...they are being very careful with their words. Or do they assume she is expired and if that proves not to be the case they can reduce the murder charge to just the rape charge?
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 02:09 AM
I swear, I think WS is the only site so far that knows about the murder and rape charges, because it isn't showing up on Twitter chatter or anything within the social networks.
There was a link on the jail site to have the charges emailed to you. Maybe no one else has seen it. It wasn't really obvious. Or they were just added recently. Maybe something from his interview led to the new charges.
Invisible
03-01-2010, 02:11 AM
I saw this person in two different places. First walking with a black garbage bag Northeast toward the parking lot on the Northern-most finger of Lake Hodges. I then saw him 10-15 minutes later headed in the opposite direction (without the bag) on the hiking/biking trail just a few minutes from Hernandez Hideaway.
Did you report this to LE?
Blue_Dolphin308
03-01-2010, 02:11 AM
http://www.kusi.com/
They are doing "Hourly" updates. It was posted in there last hourly update about the cop cars, and search warrant.
seekingjustice**
03-01-2010, 02:11 AM
This is so surreal for me. Please let this nightmare end, all I want is that amazing young woman to return to the arms of her pain-stricken parents.:cry: Please oh please.
This is an absolute nightmare for her family. They need all the support in the whole world right now. My heart just breaks for their pain.
LilysMom
03-01-2010, 02:11 AM
Ooh! I was right about the other address in Westwood that I was guessing was a sister/sister in law! They showed those homes that are like those by Matinal, or that area, rather.
It's those white duplex type homes they are searching at the moment that are along West Bernardo, Matinal, etc. They showed it very clearly on KNSD and KFMB.
That also puts it very close access wise to the Poblado attack!
My brother and sister-in-law just sold their place there and moved to Escondido. Good grief.
Elphaba
03-01-2010, 02:15 AM
There was a link on the jail site to have the charges emailed to you. Maybe no one else has seen it. It wasn't really obvious. Or they were just added recently. Maybe something from his interview led to the new charges.
True, that... and I have to hand it to you: you have a keen eye... it's people like you that makes WS a great place for case researching.
Curious Me
03-01-2010, 02:16 AM
10News report at 11 pm:
OMG, they found his DNA on Chelsea's panties found in the park. He took her someplace after, but left that evidence! He's not talking, and is denying everything presented to him. They're searching his parent's home where he was staying. Is Chelsea alive?
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 02:16 AM
KGTV (10) is saying that DNA evidence on Chelsea's underwear linked Gardner to her. (That explains the rape charge)
So then the individual news link who reported the shoe found the sports bra and the panties was in fact correct.
Curious Me
03-01-2010, 02:17 AM
When he was arrested, he had caked mud up to his waist on him.
Elphaba
03-01-2010, 02:17 AM
10News report at 11 pm:
OMG, they found his DNA on Chelsea's panties found in the park. He took her someplace after, but left that evidence! He's not talking, and is denying everything presented to him. They're searching his parent's home where he was staying. Is Chelsea alive?
I think the murder charge answers that for us... but we can hope for miracles...
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:19 AM
When he was arrested, he had caked mud up to his waist on him.
THAT is bizarre since he had just been in the restaurant.
blossomfish
03-01-2010, 02:19 AM
I swear, I think WS is the only site so far that knows about the murder and rape charges, because it isn't showing up on Twitter chatter or anything within the social networks.
I just watched the 11 news on KFMB News 8 San Diego and they confirmed the charges (murder and rape) and said he (John Gardner)will be arraigned on Wednesday. They mentioned he used to have an auto shop business in the 90s.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 02:22 AM
10News report at 11 pm:
OMG, they found his DNA on Chelsea's panties found in the park. He took her someplace after, but left that evidence! He's not talking, and is denying everything presented to him. They're searching his parent's home where he was staying. Is Chelsea alive?
She doesnt have any panties. My guess would be no. I doubt he would take her anywhere without her clothes on. If he had caked mud on him did he drown her and weight her down in the lake? Perhaps this is a big clue to her wherabouts.
DairyGirl
03-01-2010, 02:22 AM
10News report at 11 pm:
OMG, they found his DNA on Chelsea's panties found in the park. He took her someplace after, but left that evidence! He's not talking, and is denying everything presented to him. They're searching his parent's home where he was staying. Is Chelsea alive?
She must have been alive when he took her. I can't see him being able to carry a body that far. I pray there is some way she is alive.
Invisible
03-01-2010, 02:22 AM
I saw this person in two different places. First walking with a black garbage bag Northeast toward the parking lot on the Northern-most finger of Lake Hodges. I then saw him 10-15 minutes later headed in the opposite direction (without the bag) on the hiking/biking trail just a few minutes from Hernandez Hideaway.
Did you report this to LE?
Ghostwheel
03-01-2010, 02:22 AM
They aren't going to say she is not alive, but they most likely have evidence that shows she probably is not, yet there is still a chance she could be alive. (such as large amounts of blood, or other bodily fluids which would indicate unconsciousness or death). That is why they were in a hurry to search the house, etc. If she is unconscious or bleeding and hidden somewhere, every second counts.
Sharedspirit
03-01-2010, 02:25 AM
10News report at 11 pm:
OMG, they found his DNA on Chelsea's panties found in the park. He took her someplace after, but left that evidence! He's not talking, and is denying everything presented to him. They're searching his parent's home where he was staying. Is Chelsea alive?
He probably meant to go back for the evidence, but didn't have time because she was reported missing so soon.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:25 AM
It's now on twitter that KGTV said murder and rape charges so the news is going to travel soon.
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 02:26 AM
Dna would not last in the water very long. The panties bra and shoe must of been dropped or something when he was disposing of her clothing.
Melanie
03-01-2010, 02:27 AM
Seems like this would be a good time to listen to the audio feed... here is the link again:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?ctid=219
Mama bear is on. I'm listening to the SD Sheriff's site. Is that okay?
Melanie
LilysMom
03-01-2010, 02:30 AM
It's now on twitter that KGTV said murder and rape charges so the news is going to travel soon.
Oh, this is so awful. Talk about rocking a community. We'll rally for her parents.
Elphaba
03-01-2010, 02:35 AM
It is heartbreaking that yet, again, another SO has harmed an innocent child... :(
TheMentalist
03-01-2010, 02:38 AM
The missing pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. I believe the shoe, bra and panties were found the next day after she went missing before the rain came. That would explain why the focus was shifting to the lake. Also would explain why the Feds were involved...an abduction/kidnapping. That is why this investigation went into high gear so quickly.
I cant imagine he would try to carry her out of the park. Although he is a big guy and probably capable it would arose too much suspicion. I think the lake probably holds the answer. How extremely devastating. I wonder if his dna was already on file from his lewd act on a child under 14 that made him a part of the Megans Law of Sex Predator Registry.
***Also, if you have ever got in a muddy lake and sunk into the low points that mud is extremely hard to wash off of a person. It usually takes a few washings to get it off of you completely.
darlin gal
03-01-2010, 02:38 AM
New article about the murder/rape charges
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Chelsea-King-missing-Poway-Rancho-Bernardo-jogging/zTLAKar0XUGyf78trbfHvg.cspx
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:38 AM
Oh, this is so awful. Talk about rocking a community. We'll rally for her parents.
Yup!
As I posted those pictures earlier today, I did so in part for any locals who are here reading or lurking as a reminder.
Just as we rallied around those who lost all their things, as hard as that is, we will rally even more around this family who it seems likely lost their beloved daughter, worth infinitely more than all of those temporary physical possessions.
blossomfish
03-01-2010, 02:39 AM
The charges are confirmed in this article as well.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/28/lake-elsinore-man-arrested-poway-teens-disappearan/
I am very sickened by all this and I am praying for Chelsea's family.
LilysMom
03-01-2010, 02:42 AM
Yup!
As I posted those pictures (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4866257&postcount=297) earlier today, I did so in part for any locals who are here reading or lurking as a reminder.
Just as we rallied around those who lost all their things, as hard as that is, we will rally even more around this family who it seems likely lost their beloved daughter, worth infinitely more than all of those temporary physical possessions.
They are asking that we all wear blue tomorrow in support. You probably already heard that though.
TravelingBug
03-01-2010, 02:44 AM
More details about how things unraveled and the search came to be on Thursday:
King said late Thursday that he came home from the gym about the same time his wife, Kelly, was returning from the grocery store. It was about 5:30 p.m.
“My wife asked me if I had heard from Chels. I said, ‘No, I figured you had.’ Right then, we looked at each other and had a panic.”
Chelsea is the kind of daughter who always checks in, her father said. If she was going to be late, she would let them know.
“We quickly called a few of her friends and asked if they had heard from Chelsea because we hadn’t,” King said. The friends hadn’t heard from her.
“We then had a mom share with us how to do the AT&T reverse autophone, which I’d never heard of before, and you can identify where a phone is based on the AT&T Web site.”
The Web site showed a general geographical location.
“I started searching,” he said. While driving from his northern Poway home, his wife called and told Brent she wanted to call 911 and he agreed.
“We just both knew something bad was happening,” he said.
Brent soon found Chelsea’s BMW parked behind the Rancho Bernardo Community Center just south of Lake Hodges. He looked inside and saw her belongings.
“I then looked behind me and I saw a running trail, and in the deepest part of my heart, I knew she was out there,” Brent said.
“So I took off down the trail. I ran down about a mile yelling out her name as long as I could, several times and in several directions. By this time it was already dusk and the Sheriff’s Department had already shown up. So I ran back,” he said.
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