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bllbll
03-06-2010, 03:29 AM
we're fairly new to the area, but if it is a preference of JAG to hide body or take to park, is Dixon area more likely in Amber case?

JBean
03-06-2010, 01:34 PM
lets look at this more closely.

coastal
03-06-2010, 02:14 PM
we're fairly new to the area, but if it is a preference of JAG to hide body or take to park, is Dixon area more likely in Amber case?
Welcome to Websleuths, bllbll! Good thinking! Here are some photos of Dixon Lake, which is 3.31 miles from Escondido High, where Amber was last seen:

http://www.ci.escondido.ca.us/glance/lakes/dixon/index.html

1700 North La Honda Drive
Escondido, CA 92027

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/tuesday_pm/escondido/dixonphoto.jpg http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/tuesday_pm/escondido/dixonfishphoto.jpg http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/tuesday_pm/escondido/dixon-1.jpg http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/tuesday_pm/escondido/Dixon2.gif http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/tuesday_pm/escondido/Dixon3_2.gif

* Dixon Lake is open year-round. Gates open at 6:00 a.m. daily; park closes at dusk. Night fishing is available during the summer months.

* Entry Fee Weekends, Holidays & Special Events Only
DAY USE Per Car / Van / Motorcycle $5.00

* No swimming, wading, or bodily contact with the water.[/I]

> map of public picnic areas:
http://www.ci.escondido.ca.us/glance/lakes/dixon/picnic/map.html

sarx
03-06-2010, 02:20 PM
I haven't found anything on the scanner thread about a sports bra being found, can someone tell me what post # that was or wear that came from? Found the sweatshirt (NOT the same color as Amber's), so unless they found more than once the sweatshirt found is no connection to Amber. Found where they were talking about the shoe, found where they were talking sunglasses being found.

coastal
03-06-2010, 02:22 PM
Thank you, JBean!

coastal
03-06-2010, 02:40 PM
I haven't found anything on the scanner thread about a sports bra being found, can someone tell me what post # that was or wear that came from? Found the sweatshirt (NOT the same color as Amber's), so unless they found more than once the sweatshirt found is no connection to Amber. Found where they were talking about the shoe, found where they were talking sunglasses being found.
BBM
I'm a bit puzzled by LE's mad dash to drain that pond at Kit Carson Park, and their willingness to try to connect Gardner to Amber's disappearance. I understand the media wanting to doing it; heck, it was one of my first thoughts, too, when I looked at a map of Gardner's last knowns. But, we've (the public) been told that there isn't any evidence of Amber's whereabouts at all. A 9-month old sighting of a bag of hair, which was not even reported to police until Chelsea King was found murdered, seems a thin thread indeed. I hope LE has more than that!

Voice4theSilent
03-06-2010, 03:34 PM
BBM
I'm a bit puzzled by LE's mad dash to drain that pond at Kit Carson Park, and their willingness to try to connect Gardner to Amber's disappearance. I understand the media wanting to doing it; heck, it was one of my first thoughts, too, when I looked at a map of Gardner's last knowns. But, we've (the public) been told that there isn't any evidence of Amber's whereabouts at all. A 9-month old sighting of a bag of hair, which was not even reported to police until Chelsea King was found murdered, seems a thin thread indeed. I hope LE has more than that!

I am hoping they do, as well (and I think that they do.) I think two girls missing within a year of each other from within the same general area would absolutely be enough for LE to assume he had something to do with Amber's disappearance, especially given the close proximity of his residence to her school, her age and his previous conviction for what occured after he picked up a girl of the same age on her way to school. I think the relative that was on the radio program also may have eluded to the fact that LE may have a definitive link between the two (I haven't listened to it but I think someone posted to that effect.)

Leila
03-06-2010, 08:56 PM
An article from Fox News about how the two cases were handled differently.

Two Missing Teen Cases in California Show Not All Cases Treated Same

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588256,00.html?test=latestnews

Curious Me
03-06-2010, 09:48 PM
JFYI, there the Amber forum here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=388

passionflower
03-07-2010, 11:12 AM
In the sick mind of a rapist.............young, beautiful,athletic,virgin and disease free

jjenny
03-07-2010, 12:14 PM
An article from Fox News about how the two cases were handled differently.

Two Missing Teen Cases in California Show Not All Cases Treated Same

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588256,00.html?test=latestnews

Chelsea's King BMW was from 1994. Not exactly a new very expensive car.
So I am not sure that her family is that well off, or that that had anything to do with anything.
Amber's gone missing but no one saw anything suspicious. With Chelsey, they knew she was running in the park, her car was still there, so that probably made a big difference.

Natal
03-07-2010, 07:05 PM
It probably also becomes a financial issue with LE when they can't find any evidence. At some point the question would become "is it a good use of resources to search when there is no evidence of a crime?". In Chelsea's case it was clear that something had happened to her and more or less where it happened, but in Amber's case it wasn't that clear.

Voice4theSilent
03-07-2010, 07:15 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Major-Development-in-Amber-Dubois-Case-Sources-86763297.html

Major Development in Amber Dubois Case: Sources


More than one year after the disappearance of Escondido teen Amber Dubois, sources say there has been a major development in the case.

Investigators have scheduled a 3.30 p.m. news conference regarding Amber's case but would not reveal any other details.

Amber was last seen walking on Feb. 13, 2009 with a man about 200 yards from Escondido High School. She was 14-years old at the time.


Source: Major Development in Amber Dubois Case: Sources | NBC San Diego

Voice4theSilent
03-07-2010, 07:20 PM
It is not official but I am hearing rumors that Amber's body has been found in Riverside County....

italianangel2411
03-07-2010, 07:31 PM
Omg! Anyone hear any news of the conference? Did I Miss it? Major development must be big news! How far is riverside from where Chelsea was found? Thanks

italianangel2411
03-07-2010, 07:36 PM
Amber's grandmother said today she is a very said grandmother.
My heart breaks for Chelsea's & Amber's family and friends. At least they will have some closure if they located Amber's body. Rip angels

pugpugpug
03-07-2010, 07:37 PM
Live feeds:

http://www.10news.com/_video-frame/15013365/index.html

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12099232

Nothing is up yet. And I have also heard they found her body in Riverside County but until I hear official word, I'm going to pray she's alive. :/

jjenny
03-07-2010, 07:37 PM
Omg! Anyone hear any news of the conference? Did I Miss it? Major development must be big news! How far is riverside from where Chelsea was found? Thanks

I think it's Ca time so it should be starting right about now.

Herding Cats
03-07-2010, 07:41 PM
I can't get either one...anyone have a different link?

Got in. Sad.

Best-
Herding cats

Voice4theSilent
03-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Amber's skeletal remains were found on Saturday and identified throught dental records. Some confusion as to where as the man kinda mumbled. Pala or Poway or something. Still trying to confirm. If it is Pala, San Diego that is very close to lake Elsinore.

jjenny
03-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Amber's skeletal remains were found on Saturday and identified throught dental records. Some confusion as to where as the man kinda mumbled. Pala or Poway or something. Still trying to confirm. If it is Pala, San Diego that is very close to lake Elsinore.
"The body of Amber Dubois, a 14-year-old Escondido teen missing for over a year, has been found in a rural area of northern San Diego County."
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20349283,00.html

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 07:59 PM
They have confirmed Pala (near the reservation somewhere) and they are hinting that it may have been reached out of a plea of some sort, and everything the media is saying insinuates that this is tied to JAG.

When we find out where I'll add it to the map. Dates going on the calendar now.

Voice4theSilent
03-07-2010, 08:02 PM
They are saying her skeletal remains were found in Pala. Pala is right off the 15 freeway about half way between Escondido and Lake Elsinore on the border of San Diego and Riverside Counties.


http://california.hometownlocator.com/ca/san-diego/pala.cfm

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 08:05 PM
Location of Amber's remains added here (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=105214839277198153112.000480c3d41935b598566&t=h&z=9)

Don't know specifically so this is generally, I will insert an image in a minute.

italianangel2411
03-07-2010, 08:08 PM
Where is pala in relation to how far it is from amber's school and where Chelsea was found?
Some are saying he made a plea deal to give the location of Amber's body

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 08:16 PM
I'm just about to upload a map.

It's probably 20 minutes from Amber's school to Pala - 25-30 from Chelsea's body.

It's midway from Rancho Bernardo/Escondido area to Lake Elsinore, really, that she was found.

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 08:25 PM
The northerly most yellow house is JAG's family's home in Lake Elsinore, the middle one, right above the jumble of icons is his Escondido house, and the southerly most yellow house is his mom's home in Westwood.

The RED exclamation mark in a triangle is the area where Amber's remains were found.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2698/4414810851_582b1d503f_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48023608@N08/4414810851/)

A close in view of where Amber was found in relation to everything with Chelsea this past week.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2795/4414811091_7086ccda07_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48023608@N08/4414811091/)

italianangel2411
03-07-2010, 08:28 PM
Very interesting! Thank u so much tb!
Wondering when it will be reported on hln old nvm tonight
guess they will find out tomm
how terrible for both families

Voice4theSilent
03-07-2010, 08:30 PM
I am very interested in the exact location of Amber's remains. The "running group" that JAG may have been associated with had several camping outings and "runs" in the Temecula/Vail Lake area (just north of Pala.)

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 08:35 PM
I would guess he also went to Pala the back way, through Escondido toward Valley Center to where it splits off to Lilac and got to Pala there.

It would have let him stay off the freeway, plus those roads through there aren't as highly travelled, and I'd think he'd have put her somewhere off the main road (Pala/76) but probably not way off, as it seems odd he'd have known that area well enough to do more than that.

I'll be very interesting to see what he did - because I think it may lend more insight into whether Amber was his first victim. I think more right off a road and coming from Escondido might be more like a he took her and then didn't know what his plan was and had to do something about it and then with her, versus if she was totally concealed and way off the 'beaten path', seeming, to some extent more premeditated.

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 09:03 PM
News at 5 pm

KUSI (9/51):

Acted on a lead, but would not disclose where that came from. More at 6 pm (they were doing just a brief update again)

KFMB 8:

Discovery of remains were at a VERY early hour on Saturday. (Her dad knew while speaking at Kit Carson yesterday they're saying - or that it was her minus confirmation from the ME)

In a "rugged" and "remote" part of Pala.

Her family is thankful to the volunteers who helped them (the family).

Found NORTH of the actual reservation.

They will not comment on the tie to JAG. Took no questions.

Any information on whether JAG is tied to Amber's disappearance would be "inappropriate" to discuss at this time.

TravelingBug
03-07-2010, 09:05 PM
City councilman in Escondido just implied (on KFMB) - almost stated outright - that JAG IS tied to Amber's disappearance.

Voice4theSilent
03-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Another interesting thing to note: When traveling north on the 15 freeway between Escondido and Lake Elsinore there is a California Highway Patrol check point and station on the 15 freeway just north of Pala at the San Diego/Riverside county line. That might have a lot to do with why he chose Pala! Doubt he wanted to chance driving through that with Amber in his car!!!

Curious Me
03-08-2010, 01:44 AM
Other missing people on the FBI site:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/kidmiss.htm


San Diego Crimestoppers site. It's a stretch, but look at the date and Carlsbad is not that far. Could there be more? I tried to run a search of other missing or other bodies found, and think it is worth considering.

http://www.sdcrimestoppers.com/unsolvedcases.html

Jodine Serrin Murder

Reward of up to $52,000

On February 14, 2007, Jodine Elizabeth Serrin, a 39-year-old, mentally challenged woman, was found murdered in her Carlsbad condominium located in the 1900 Block of Swallow Lane.

A reward of up to $2,000 is available for information leading to an arrest in this case. $1,000 is from Jodine's family and $1,000 from Crime Stoppers. The Governor's office is offering a $50,000 reward.




or this young girl

Ahlyja Pinson Murder


Reward of up to $51,000
On December 31, 2007, at about 7:20 p.m., a homeless male discovered Pinson in an abandoned house on 2900 E Street in Golden Hill. Pinson appeared injured and unconscious. The male left the residence, borrowed a cell phone and called the police. Officers arrived and found Pinson inside the house, deceased. Pinson had been beaten and stabbed to death.

The San Diego Police Department is looking for information on the suspect responsible for this homicide. Crime Stoppers is offering a $1,000 reward for information that leads to the arrest of the person responsible. The Governor's office is offering a $50,000 reward.

Voice4theSilent
03-08-2010, 06:30 PM
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Amber-Dubois-Escondido-Chelsea-King-Gardner/3WSDlxSD5UmLdlJnvhelsA.cspx

ESCONDIDO POLICE LINK AMBER'S DEATH TO JOHN GARDNER

sarx
03-08-2010, 06:34 PM
Ok, now this article says that a hiker found her remains and contacted police?

Voice4theSilent
03-08-2010, 06:47 PM
Police: John Gardner focus of Amber Dubois murder investigation
Updated: Mar 08, 2010 2:25 PM PST

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12099609

TravelingBug
03-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Ok, now this article says that a hiker found her remains and contacted police?

I believed that stemmed out of the initial erroneous reporting from people.com yesterday. It has since been redacted elsewhere and stated not to be the case.

I'm guessing they were behind on the initial report of it and are thus behind on the saying that was not the case now.

(I have to say, watching the order in which news sources have gotten info/retracted info/corrected info/reported info in this case, especially, has been ::fascinating::)

Voice4theSilent
03-08-2010, 07:19 PM
Ok, now this article says that a hiker found her remains and contacted police?

Yeah, I am sure they never corrected the bottom portion of the article to take out that piece of misinformation and just edited it to add the first portion about JAG being the focus re: Amber.

TravelingBug
03-08-2010, 07:46 PM
Just posted this in Amber's thread.

ESCONDIDO, Calif. -- Police said a registered sex offender is the focus of an investigation into the death of 14-year-old Amber Dubois, whose skeletal remains were discovered in a remote, rugged area north of San Diego.

Escondido police said Monday that 30-year-old John Albert Gardner III remains a suspect after Amber's bones were found near Pala, more than a year after she disappeared near her school. Police did not elaborate in a statement. They say the crime scene is being processed after the remains were discovered early Saturday.

http://www.10news.com/news/22778772/detail.html

sarx
03-08-2010, 07:50 PM
I just worry that this is an easy person to focus on and try to deflect their mistakes from last year. I will feel a lot better when there is solid evidence pointing to him.

Voice4theSilent
03-08-2010, 07:55 PM
I just worry that this is an easy person to focus on and try to deflect their mistakes from last year. I will feel a lot better when there is solid evidence pointing to him.

Me, too....however I am willing to bet the house that they have very solid evidence to link him to Amber's kidnap and murder.

TravelingBug
03-08-2010, 08:09 PM
Posted an update from the news just happening locally, stating it is intentional that details of the source of the tip are NOT being made public, and the recently released (within the last hour) very brief statement was carefully crafted.

They also said do NOT expect that they will give any new information they may have about JAG and Amber or any other cases to come out in court tomorrow. They implied it will be brief again tomorrow, and that next week would be when we'd likely learn more ::if:: that hearing goes on as planned.

TravelingBug
03-08-2010, 09:02 PM
KFMB (8) at 5:

JAG is now "officially a suspect" in Amber's disappearance.

Detectives officially saying he is "the focus" of the investigation.

Leila
03-08-2010, 11:27 PM
Posted an update from the news just happening locally, stating it is intentional that details of the source of the tip are NOT being made public, and the recently released (within the last hour) very brief statement was carefully crafted.

They also said do NOT expect that they will give any new information they may have about JAG and Amber or any other cases to come out in court tomorrow. They implied it will be brief again tomorrow, and that next week would be when we'd likely learn more ::if:: that hearing goes on as planned.

I think that by the time of the preliminary hearing on the 18th we'll know more. At this time, LE is just putting all the pieces of the puzzle together.

I'd be surprised if JAG is the source of the tip that led LE to find Amber's remains. The psychiatrist at the time of his trial in 2000 stated that JAG refused to take responsibility for what he did, and therefore remained a danger to society. For that reason, I can't see him telling LE where Amber's remains were.

I think it's more likely that someone close to him - his girlfriend perhaps - knew something. Perhaps someone who knew him feared what would happen to them if they told what they knew.

Leila
03-08-2010, 11:32 PM
I just worry that this is an easy person to focus on and try to deflect their mistakes from last year. I will feel a lot better when there is solid evidence pointing to him.

I'm intrigued by the fact that LE is not officially confirming the identity of the body found last Tuesday as Chelsea King, and the cause of death. I think there must be something that LE is withholding as it might be the killer's signature.......something only the killer would know.

This would be something LE is look for to tie a murder to JAG.

TravelingBug
03-08-2010, 11:43 PM
I think that by the time of the preliminary hearing on the 18th we'll know more. At this time, LE is just putting all the pieces of the puzzle together.

I'd be surprised if JAG is the source of the tip that led LE to find Amber's remains. The psychiatrist at the time of his trial in 2000 stated that JAG refused to take responsibility for what he did, and therefore remained a danger to society. For that reason, I can't see him telling LE where Amber's remains were.

I think it's more likely that someone close to him - his girlfriend perhaps - knew something. Perhaps someone who knew him feared what would happen to them if they told what they knew.

Did you see what Tink just posted over on the "plea or tip" thread here?

The jist of it was, according to the KFI show that's been covering this well (that had the family member in Elsinore on, as well), JAG was brought to Pala by LE on Friday afternoon, and she was found at 3 am on Saturday.

That jives with what local media has been emphasizing, that she was found ::very:: early on Saturday (as in, things had started on Friday because it would have been dark ::very:: early on Saturday). Plus they had the 'cover' of all eyes focused on Kit Carson Park at that same time.

ETA, knowing the area she was found, but not intimately, and then, seeing it more on local news, especially from the air, unless someone had been with him in the area, I find it hard to believe that someone could pinpoint that area that specifically simply by word of mouth. I don't know...

Leila
03-09-2010, 12:47 AM
Did you see what Tink just posted over on the "plea or tip" thread here (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4899816&postcount=229)?

The jist of it was, according to the KFI show that's been covering this well (that had the family member in Elsinore on, as well), JAG was brought to Pala by LE on Friday afternoon, and she was found at 3 am on Saturday.

That jives with what local media has been emphasizing, that she was found ::very:: early on Saturday (as in, things had started on Friday because it would have been dark ::very:: early on Saturday). Plus they had the 'cover' of all eyes focused on Kit Carson Park at that same time.

ETA, knowing the area she was found, but not intimately, and then, seeing it more on local news, especially from the air, unless someone had been with him in the area, I find it hard to believe that someone could pinpoint that area that specifically simply by word of mouth. I don't know...

Wow.............I didn't see Tink's post! This puts a whole different light on the subject! Thanks TB!