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View Full Version : 2010.03.08 motion hearing **UPDATE **PROBATION REPORT ADDED**



nursebeeme
03-08-2010, 06:56 PM
A previously unannounced court hearing is scheduled for 2:00 for John Gardner, the man arrested on suspicion of Chelsea's rape and murder.

The hearing as listed as a "Felony Other Motion Hearing." The District Attorney's office would not comment on the hearing.


http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Chelsea-King-missing-Poway-Rancho-Bernardo-jogging/zTLAKar0XUGyf78trbfHvg.cspx

Wise Old Owl
03-08-2010, 06:59 PM
very interesting.....especially since he is due in court tomorrow 3/9 per the arraignment last week.

SoCalSleuth
03-08-2010, 07:46 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/
It was to have his probation records unsealed as requested by the media.

JBean
03-08-2010, 09:25 PM
I think the judge ruled that the records will be unsealed. I will find a link

JBean
03-08-2010, 09:26 PM
Judge orders release of Gardner probation report

The accused killer's lawyers have until Wednesday to appeal

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/08/judge-orders-release-gardner-probation-report/


A Superior Court judge on Monday ordered the release of a decade-old probation report generated after John Albert Gardner III was convicted of molesting a 13-year-old girl in Rancho Bernardo.

JBean
03-09-2010, 07:33 PM
Probation report released:

http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/03/616_1268174618.pdf

A MUST READ unsanitized version and background info

TravelingBug
03-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Thanks, Jbean.

Can we discuss that here or should have a separate thread for the probation report.

I wish they'd go back and redact the one place earlier in the document where the victim's name was inadvertently left...although I guess at this point it's out there and may be too late :(

TravelingBug
03-09-2010, 08:15 PM
For now I'll put probation stuff here.

Lots of psych. drugs he'd been on.

It's hard to believe that a decade ago when this all happened, that even then JAG was talking about he and his mother getting on the nerves of the other and that he should have his own place.

Didn't know he was engaged at the time. We've heard of the girlfriend, but never of her as a fiance.

Totally tries to play a "woe is me" thing under the "plans" section of the documents...oh, was going to be a teacher but now because of this he couldn't...oh, was going to be a police officer (ack!) and now because of this he couldn't...oh was going to be xyz and now because of this he can't... That is just infuriating that it's as if he is frustrated that he was caught and now can't do those things, not that he shouldn't have done this to begin with (for any reason!) and that THAT is the cause of this. NOT the being caught/punishment/this on his record.

More to come.

JBean
03-09-2010, 08:17 PM
This IS the probation report thread LOL.
But we can break our different topics OF the report as we dig through it. For example,I added one thing from the psych eval to his psych profile thread.

powayparent
03-09-2010, 08:26 PM
The reference to hanging out at the waterfall indicates he was very familiar with the trails adjacent to where Chelsea was found. The Taco Bell mentioned in the report is at the corner of Duenda/Bernardo Center Dr and W. Bernardo Road.

TravelingBug
03-09-2010, 08:32 PM
I thought it was interesting that he had been arrested for trespassing at a high school and that the psych who evaluated him found that behavior "disturbing."

I think the tie in with him finding a girl on the way to (and in some cases, from) school even back then shows that was one of his MO's...that we saw in the Elsinore situation, Amber's, and a few other cases that are still marked on the map in my sig with other possibly related incidents.

TravelingBug
03-09-2010, 08:35 PM
Found the information about the girlfriend having an abortion because she was afraid she could not raise the child alone and the psych Dr. Carroll thinking that was odd also interesting. (p. 17)

Also thought it was interesting that he (Dr. Carroll) characterized it as a case full of "pervasive oddness." (p. 17)

TravelingBug
03-09-2010, 08:38 PM
"...does not appear to be any rhyme or reason for what [JAG] did in the case..." (p. 18) Talks about the physical assault on her besides the sexual, especially when she refused. Makes me fear what we'll find out he did to Chelsea (and likely Amber) assuming they likely tried to fight back at some point.

JAG accused the victim's MOTHER of being the one that did this to her??!! Oh my goodness! (p. 18)

nursebeeme
03-09-2010, 08:46 PM
this guy hadn't been on meds since the age of 16 (and for ADHD mind you). All those meds listed mean nothing... as the Doc clearly stated there was nothing to diagnose... (except pedaphilia but he wouldn't admit to that/cooperate enough to sustain that dx)

The physician also found no diagnosable conditions; just a "very, very bad kid". The report was chilling with foreshadow to what he most likely went on to do. This medical professional nailed it completely including the warning to the community.

I too found the stalking at a school very disturbing and would love to know the nature of that incident. Was he doing a "chester the molester on the playground" type thing???? He was doing enough of something to have a police report filed on him.

Also very interesting family dynamics/background especially the fact that he lived with (what claimed to be) an abusive father by himself around the age of 6.

Couple his IQ with all of the rest of this stuff and you don't just have a monster... you have a cunning monster.

Lipin One
03-09-2010, 08:48 PM
Found the information about the girlfriend having an abortion because she was afraid she could not raise the child alone and the psych Dr. Carroll thinking that was odd also interesting. (p. 17)

Also thought it was interesting that he (Dr. Carroll) characterized it as a case full of "pervasive oddness." (p. 17)

I figure that all those things, that seem small or unimportant to us, add up together to form a whole picture of what his personality was like.

As we have seen, Dr. Carroll was right all along.

Herding Cats
03-09-2010, 08:49 PM
Interesting. Really, really interesting.

He was given concurrent sentences, but had they run consequecutively, he would had a total of 14 years, even with the middle terms given. Which means he would have been in prison now...

Something is terribly wrong with the system...terribly, terribly wrong.

Best-
Herding Cats

nursebeeme
03-09-2010, 08:50 PM
"...does not appear to be any rhyme or reason for what [JAG] did in the case..." (p. 18) Talks about the physical assault on her besides the sexual, especially when she refused. Makes me fear what we'll find out he did to Chelsea (and likely Amber) assuming they likely tried to fight back at some point.

JAG accused the victim's MOTHER of being the one that did this to her??!! Oh my goodness! (p. 18)
I think he had 6 years to sit all by himself and think how he could satisfy his needs and not get caught at the same time. Glad this creep didn't take a crime scene class (re: leaving semen and clothing behind)

SoCalSleuth
03-09-2010, 08:54 PM
No where in this report does it indicate the victim initially stated he raped her and then later recanted as was reported by JAG's relative on the John & Ken radio show.

Ghostwheel
03-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Now I am curious. Was he really diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, and did he really take all those different medications, or did he just claim he did? This report doesn't claim to have confirmed what JAG said. Wondering about pathological liar type behavior.

Voice4theSilent
03-09-2010, 10:19 PM
JAG's behavior throughout the entire document confirms everything that Dr. Carroll stated to the court however the judge completely ignored it.

I found it interesting that JAG had a much higher IQ than expected! "Dr. Carrol noted that the defendant tested with a 113 IQ which is relatively high for someone of the defendent's age." Smart but not smart enough not to react or linger when shown pictures of young girls in his psych evaluation!

I think all he got out of his sentence was the enlightenment that next time he should be more careful not to leave a witness! Five years in jail, required to register for life as a sex offender, loss of a job, loss of his employment dreams, monetary restitution to his victim, etc. he was going to make sure THAT didn't happen again!

Voice4theSilent
03-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Now I am curious. Was he really diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, and did he really take all those different medications, or did he just claim he did? This report doesn't claim to have confirmed what JAG said. Wondering about pathological liar type behavior.

If he was diagnosed it might not have been accurate. If he did take all those drugs it may have been over a very short period of time and then possibly they realized he didn't even have ADHD. Unfortunately a lot of children are misdiagnosed with ADHD.

jjenny
03-09-2010, 11:10 PM
this guy hadn't been on meds since the age of 16 (and for ADHD mind you). All those meds listed mean nothing... as the Doc clearly stated there was nothing to diagnose... (except pedaphilia but he wouldn't admit to that/cooperate enough to sustain that dx)

The physician also found no diagnosable conditions; just a "very, very bad kid". The report was chilling with foreshadow to what he most likely went on to do. This medical professional nailed it completely including the warning to the community.

I too found the stalking at a school very disturbing and would love to know the nature of that incident. Was he doing a "chester the molester on the playground" type thing???? He was doing enough of something to have a police report filed on him.

Also very interesting family dynamics/background especially the fact that he lived with (what claimed to be) an abusive father by himself around the age of 6.

Couple his IQ with all of the rest of this stuff and you don't just have a monster... you have a cunning monster.

No, Gardner isn't a pedophile. Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children, and the report says Gardner isn't attracted to pre-pubescent children, but to girls of 13 years old.

JBean
03-09-2010, 11:22 PM
No, Gardner isn't a pedophile. Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children, and the report says Gardner isn't attracted to pre-pubescent children, but to girls of 13 years old.
maybe yes, maybe no. Cartainly arguable.

Description

The focus of pedophilia is sexual activity with a child. Many courts interpret this reference to age to mean children under the age of 18. Most mental health professionals, however, confine the definition of pedophilia to sexual activity with prepubescent children, who are generally age 13 or younger. The term ephebophilia , derived from the Greek word for "youth," is sometimes used to describe sexual interest in young people in the first stages of puberty.


http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

jjenny
03-09-2010, 11:30 PM
maybe yes, maybe no. Cartainly arguable.

Description

The focus of pedophilia is sexual activity with a child. Many courts interpret this reference to age to mean children under the age of 18. Most mental health professionals, however, confine the definition of pedophilia to sexual activity with prepubescent children, who are generally age 13 or younger. The term ephebophilia , derived from the Greek word for "youth," is sometimes used to describe sexual interest in young people in the first stages of puberty.


http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

The report says he isn't.
Dr. Carroll has considered a diagnosis of pedophilia but found out that defendant isn't interested in pre-pubescent children, only females around 13 years old. The defendant does not warrant a clinical diagnosis.

Billylee
03-10-2010, 12:06 AM
From the report here, referring to his conviction in 2000, when he was 20 YOA with a 13 YO.


http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/03/616_1268174618.pdf

She is a former neighbor of the defendant; they have "hung out" together with a mutual group of friends and she should have had no reason to fear him.


Firstly, who are this "mutual group of friends"? And secondly, what was a 13 year old girl doing "hanging out" with a 20 year old? Very, very weird! (If someone already brought this up, I apologize, but going back and forth between forums is weird to me; I think JAG's past should now be brought over to Amber's site. JMO)

JBean
03-10-2010, 12:11 AM
From the report here, referring to his conviction in 2000, when he was 20 YOA with a 13 YO.


http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/03/616_1268174618.pdf

She is a former neighbor of the defendant; they have "hung out" together with a mutual group of friends and she should have had no reason to fear him.


Firstly, who are this "mutual group of friends"? And secondly, what was a 13 year old girl doing "hanging out" with a 20 year old? Very, very weird! (If someone already brought this up, I apologize, but going back and forth between forums is weird to me; I think JAG's past should now be brought over to Amber's site. JMO)
We have an unusual situation with 2 cases involving the same perp. So we are just going to have to work together. For now, JAG is accused of the murder of Chelsea King, so information about him should be in here. Posting the same threads in different forums might just create the same conversation in 2 places so that doens't make much sense either.
If and when he is accused of Amber's murder maybe we need to have one JAG forum. but many felt putting both cases in one forum would be even more confusing.
So please work with us to come up with the right format to cover all the information.

Leila
03-10-2010, 12:19 AM
No where in this report does it indicate the victim initially stated he raped her and then later recanted as was reported by JAG's relative on the John & Ken radio show.

I think the relative that was interviewed on John and Ken was relying on both his own first hand knowledge, and also what he had been told. In other words, JAG or a family member telling other family members that the victim initially stated he had raped her and then later recanted. JAG was trying to minimize the seriousness of his crime to his family.

I would imagine, that if the relative that was interviewed on John and Ken is now reading the probation report for the first time he's learning things he was never told or things about which he was told something different.

Ghostwheel
03-10-2010, 12:27 AM
If he was diagnosed it might not have been accurate. If he did take all those drugs it may have been over a very short period of time and then possibly they realized he didn't even have ADHD. Unfortunately a lot of children are misdiagnosed with ADHD.Isn't that the truth! However, that would bring up my next question which is what might those medications do to a child without ADHD, not to mention trying all of them at various times. There are a lot of side effects to those drugs. I'd like to know if he really did take them or not. If anyone finds out, please let me know.

SoCalSleuth
03-10-2010, 01:42 AM
What I find so incredibly stupid in this is the statement from a woman he dated who wrote that he wouldnt kiss her on their first date even though he knew she liked him and she basically had to initiate the kissing. How does that help him when he's accused of molesting a kid?? Obviously, he didn't try to kiss her because she wasn't 13! Geez.

eyes4crime
03-10-2010, 02:23 AM
Dr. Carroll M.D. (Forensic Psychiatrist), was right on - no diagnosis because it's almost impossible to give a diagnosis of 'sociopath' at that age and that long ago. I think the description of 'pedophile' is accurate - he likes young girls and is emotionally young, if not younger then the girls he stalks.

I find it interesting that the probation officer and the judge won out over Dr. Carroll - must be that the psyc eval means next to nothing when others are involved and especially with a plea.

His explanations were almost juvenile such as -'mom beat her up', he showed no remorse for his victim and actually said she had a 'crush' on him. This guy was a certain to continue his violent, predatory behavior. I can see why they had difficulty releasing this info., a probation officer gave him the middle ground and the doc wasn't listened to - that mistake cost lives. MOO

Natal
03-10-2010, 06:59 AM
Dr. Carroll M.D. (Forensic Psychiatrist), was right on - no diagnosis because it's almost impossible to give a diagnosis of 'sociopath' at that age and that long ago. I think the description of 'pedophile' is accurate - he likes young girls and is emotionally young, if not younger then the girls he stalks.

I find it interesting that the probation officer and the judge won out over Dr. Carroll - must be that the psyc eval means next to nothing when others are involved and especially with a plea.

His explanations were almost juvenile such as -'mom beat her up', he showed no remorse for his victim and actually said she had a 'crush' on him. This guy was a certain to continue his violent, predatory behavior. I can see why they had difficulty releasing this info., a probation officer gave him the middle ground and the doc wasn't listened to - that mistake cost lives. MOO

There wasn't really that much difference between what the psych and probation officer recommended, 8 years as opposed to 6 years. The end result would still have been the same, he would have got out 2 years later and continued with his behaviour, the only difference being that some other girl would have been probably have been the victim instead of Chelsea.

Natal
03-10-2010, 07:02 AM
Interesting. Really, really interesting.

He was given concurrent sentences, but had they run consequecutively, he would had a total of 14 years, even with the middle terms given. Which means he would have been in prison now...

Something is terribly wrong with the system...terribly, terribly wrong.

Best-
Herding Cats

The argument was that all the counts were essentially the same crime since they happened at the same time, which was true. That is why they were concurrent.

Natal
03-10-2010, 07:17 AM
JAG's behavior throughout the entire document confirms everything that Dr. Carroll stated to the court however the judge completely ignored it.

I found it interesting that JAG had a much higher IQ than expected! "Dr. Carrol noted that the defendant tested with a 113 IQ which is relatively high for someone of the defendent's age." Smart but not smart enough not to react or linger when shown pictures of young girls in his psych evaluation!

I think all he got out of his sentence was the enlightenment that next time he should be more careful not to leave a witness! Five years in jail, required to register for life as a sex offender, loss of a job, loss of his employment dreams, monetary restitution to his victim, etc. he was going to make sure THAT didn't happen again!

I don't think that he "learned" anything from the experience, and wasn't going to no matter what. IMO there is some kind of peculiar immature mysogynistic rage underlying his behaviour, it's not so much a sex thing rather than sex being one of the tools he used to express that rage. Reading the probation report, his focus seems more on hurting the victim than completing the act (which he apparently didn't do).

This may be the reason why they are taking so long to confirm the victim as Chelsea, if he beat her death the facial trauma may be too severe for conventional identification.

nursebeeme
03-10-2010, 01:20 PM
maybe yes, maybe no. Cartainly arguable.

Description

The focus of pedophilia is sexual activity with a child. Many courts interpret this reference to age to mean children under the age of 18. Most mental health professionals, however, confine the definition of pedophilia to sexual activity with prepubescent children, who are generally age 13 or younger. The term ephebophilia , derived from the Greek word for "youth," is sometimes used to describe sexual interest in young people in the first stages of puberty.


http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html thanks for that. ITA and should be diagnosable... as it is not normal behavior

SDJFig
03-10-2010, 02:46 PM
Thank you very much for the link to the full report! This truly is an amazing forum with great researchers. Unfortunately our topic is what it is though...

bllbll
03-10-2010, 06:42 PM
jbean, hope this isn't off subject, has there been any mention off this "friend" he took to school that day, I think in report gave a first name,, age group of the victim? or JAG age?, just curious if this "friend" could know things or have helped him get in with the group of friends.

concentric
03-10-2010, 07:20 PM
Have you guys been discussing this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/10/details-of-suspects-past-emerge/

Gardnerís mother is a registered nurse, according to state records. She is also the legislative committee chairwoman of the California Chapter of the American Psychiatric Nurses Association, according to its newsletters. In April, she protested state mental health care funding cuts during a walk in San Diego to raise money for the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

She has not responded to interview requests since her sonís arrest. Gardnerís father died at the age of 64 in 2008.

eyes4crime
03-10-2010, 07:53 PM
Isn't that the truth! However, that would bring up my next question which is what might those medications do to a child without ADHD, not to mention trying all of them at various times. There are a lot of side effects to those drugs. I'd like to know if he really did take them or not. If anyone finds out, please let me know.

IF JAG was on all these different medications for different diagnosis - I doubt anyone knew what he was being treated for. Mellaril is a medication used for schizophrenia and I can honestly say, I've never seen a child on it! How could he function with all those side effects? Medications for depression, meds for bipolar, meds for ADHD - I wonder how many different doctors he had?

Add to that his terrible childhood environment - alcoholic men in his life and he states his dad doesn't do well with young children? What does that mean? Surounded by 1/2 sisters and who knows about his mom? IF JAG was on 18 different meds, I can see why his mother became a nurse with a specialty in psyc. MOO MHO JMHO

JBean
03-11-2010, 11:05 AM
The transcriptionist of this report is a long time member here at Websleuths. While this person does not want to be identified, I found it to be an interesting coincidence and thought I would share it.

scapa
03-11-2010, 01:21 PM
There wasn't really that much difference between what the psych and probation officer recommended, 8 years as opposed to 6 years. The end result would still have been the same, he would have got out 2 years later and continued with his behaviour, the only difference being that some other girl would have been probably have been the victim instead of Chelsea.

Indeed. What I find curious is that his refusal to admit culpability seems to have persuaded Dr Carroll that he wasn't a good candidate for treatment -- does this seem like a question of viability of treatment or of allocation of scarce resources? I don't see that, untreated, two extra years in the pen would have helped. Mindful of the recidivism rates of sexual offenders, I wonder if any treatment/supervision program might have helped here, given that a life sentence wasn't an option for the court. Frightening case.

best,

s

darlin gal
03-11-2010, 07:15 PM
Records show Chelsea's accused killer could have been sent back to prison for violating his parole.


The records show that parole officials found Gardner was illegally living within a half-mile of a school in September 2007. They decided to keep him on parole.

Had Gardner been returned to prison, he could have been evaluated for commitment to a state mental hospital as a sexually violent predator. He also would have qualified for a lifetime of GPS tracking of his whereabouts.

Source: Chelsea King Murder Suspect Broke Parole | NBC San Diego (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Chelsea-King-Murder-Suspect-Broke-Parole-87393437.html#ixzz0huelDcPF)