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TravelingBug
03-12-2010, 03:10 AM
SAN DIEGO -- 10News learned staff members at Scripps Mercy Hospital are upset about the mother of accused killer John Gardner returning to work.

Sources told 10News Scripps Mercy staff members were summoned to a 3 p.m. meeting Thursday to discuss the issue of Cathy Osborn's return to the hospital. The staff members were asked to dress in street clothes and come in through the front door.
Osborn is a registered nurse and is a supervisor in the behavioral health unit at Scripps Mercy.


http://www.10news.com/news/22816642/detail.html

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 04:04 AM
Wow, the comments under the article do make it sound like this isn't going to be forgotten easily by her co-workers or people in her sphere! Imagine, they have to take orders from her at work, and are now completely disillusioned with her professional wisdom, some are furious. A Leave of Absence is the only solution at this point.

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 05:19 AM
10news is covering the complete dilemna because of the uproar over her involvement in the running group even showing some of the blurred out pics calling them almost pornographic. It sounds like many people at work do not want her to continue working there. This on top of, neighbors wanting her to move. Surprised she went right back to work like nothing happened, huh.

SoCalSleuth
03-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Due to John's conviction and the fact that she works with sex offenders, it appears clear she was aware of Megan's law and would have known that by letting JAG live with her she was allowing him to get around that law. That seems pretty irresponsible and I understand how Chelsea's family would put blame on her--it's not as if he were a teenager with no place to live. Continuing to teach a self-defense class? That is in bad taste. It appears that she has been and still is in complete denial.

passionflower
03-12-2010, 11:33 AM
If she was just a mother of a murderer, it would be different.
BUT SHE HELPED a murderer and RSO.
I would not want her as my boss, with her morals.
I would not want her treated me in that field.
Maybe she should get a demotion and just be a regular nurse.
She should not treat other RSO, look what happened to her son under her care!

Wise Old Owl
03-12-2010, 11:50 AM
passionflower - I don't think it is so much that SHE HELPED - but more that her occupation and education was (and is) in the very field that JAG will now be evaluated (yet again). SHE KNEW! She had the docs to read - and she knew how to understand them.

IMO she has to have some psych problems as well. Her profession - working with SO's and then she turns around and belongs to a "sexually progressive" (trying to be a little PC here :) ) running group. Then she gets her RSO son somewhat involved in this group as well.

C'mon - she still lives in the very house that JAG committed his first crime. Oh how horrible - if that would have been my family I would have moved IMMEDIATELY - probably never gone back inside, just have a moving crew pack it all. Yet she continues to live there for decades.

I also believe there is something fatality flawed with the relationship between JAG and his mother. Kinda like a "Norman Bates" type of mentality.

The apple doesn't fall far - but it sure can mutate into a spoiled, rotten, nasty mess!

passionflower
03-12-2010, 11:59 AM
My reason is that she HELPED her son, he lived with her, I'm sure she helped him with shelter, food and possibly money......he wasn't working.........that kind of help.
Help get him in the social groups etc...........but she sure never helped his illness!

Yes I think Jag/mom love/hate relationship.........Norman Bates.......yep

passionflower
03-12-2010, 12:04 PM
Don't nurses/etc have a moral clause in their work agreement?
Did mom ever get other SO in her kennel group????
That would be buddies for her son???
After a person is exposed to things over and over it is normal.........

example........after 40 years in the hair business, seeing a hair on my food was just a hair, no big deal............which would gag someone else.

sungrl
03-12-2010, 12:07 PM
Don't nurses/etc have a moral clause in their work agreement?
Did mom ever get other SO in her kennel group????
That would be buddies for her son???
After a person is exposed to things over and over it is normal.........

example........after 40 years in the hair business, seeing a hair on my food was just a hair, no big deal............which would gag someone else.

LOL true

sungrl
03-12-2010, 12:11 PM
I agree, she's in complete denial. If my son had done the things he's been accused of, I"d surely be looking in the mirror. With all the father figures in and out of his life I think he has a real hatred toward women because of his mother.

Voice4theSilent
03-12-2010, 02:32 PM
I believe she enabled her son because if she accepted him as a SO, actually read the court reports from his 2000 conviction, etc. she might actually have had to take a look at HER actions and how they may have influenced and affected her son throughout his life. IMO she didn't want to give up her lifestyle and involvement in her group and therefore she lived in denial out of convenience. IMO it is completely irresponsible for a parent, regardless of how old your child is, to choose your own wants and needs over what is best for your child. I believe that once you make the decision to have children you are obligated to choose your child's best interest (which in no way is to enable them and pretend they aren't a SO if they have been convicted of a sexual offense) over your own for the rest of your/their life.

It angers me to no end that her son was convicted of molesting a child in her home and the victim's family had to pick up and move! If I were her co-worker or her neighbor I would not be shy in letting her know exactly how I felt about her actions.

SoCalSleuth
03-12-2010, 02:53 PM
I believe she enabled her son because if she accepted him as a SO, actually read the court reports from his 2000 conviction, etc. she might actually have had to take a look at HER actions and how they may have influenced and affected her son throughout his life. IMO she didn't want to give up her lifestyle and involvement in her group and therefore she lived in denial out of convenience. IMO it is completely irresponsible for a parent, regardless of how old your child is, to choose your own wants and needs over what is best for your child. I believe that once you make the decision to have children you are obligated to choose your child's best interest (which in no way is to enable them and pretend they aren't a SO if they have been convicted of a sexual offense) over your own for the rest of your/their life.

It angers me to no end that her son was convicted of molesting a child in her home and the victim's family had to pick up and move! If I were her co-worker or her neighbor I would not be shy in letting her know exactly how I felt about her actions.

How do you know the victim had to move? I hope that is not true.

eyes4crime
03-12-2010, 03:00 PM
Can't help but notice that 'mom' is getting 100% of the blame here - what about the male family member who molested JAG? What about the father who couldn't handle young kids? What about putting 100% of the blame on JAG? MOO

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 03:04 PM
Her son is being accused of rape and murder. Yet, if you look, he didn't put out any smut about himself on the internet - She did. I'm shocked at how plain stupid it was of her. She has a very professional career position, and should known not to pose in pics like that and openly promote sex, sex, sex. Agree, it points to her having her own problems.

Both parents living in that house should have sat their son down and found out how to help him. It was selfish to deny the obvious signs they must have seen.

passionflower
03-12-2010, 03:04 PM
when and who molested Jag, I hadn't heard this...........

eyes4crime
03-12-2010, 03:10 PM
A link on the psyc thread has a high school friend giving information about JAG - I copied this section - I'm not surprised:

SEXUAL ABUSE

Something Gardner shared with Brandt might have been another significant impact on his developing personality. He once confided in her, she said, that he had been sexually abused by a male family member on repeated occasions. Though she said she knows how they were related, she declined to identify that relationship.

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 03:13 PM
Here comes the local 10News report on her again. It's about her, not her son. It's her in the group, and her in the pics. People are shocked.

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Good article, IMO.

Friend describes Gardner and that he did tell her he was bipolar.

There was a male family member that molested him.



http://www.crestlinecourier-news.com...news/news1.txt

SuziQ
03-12-2010, 03:33 PM
How do you know the victim had to move? I hope that is not true.

It's in the probation/psych report.

SuziQ
03-12-2010, 03:40 PM
Can't help but notice that 'mom' is getting 100% of the blame here - what about the male family member who molested JAG? What about the father who couldn't handle young kids? What about putting 100% of the blame on JAG? MOO

I don't think anyone is putting 100% blame on mom and not on Jag. The thread is titled: Repercussions for those close to JAG , so people are talking about that. Wasn't she and her husband the closest to him and have shown so far their irresponsibility in dealing with Jag? Good gawd, mom's profession is to deal with people just like her son. Sounds like she is in the wrong profession.

I'm sure as more info comes out about others possible knowledge the percentage will get spread around. There is more than one way to cut a pie. :)

Leila
03-12-2010, 03:50 PM
How do you know the victim had to move? I hope that is not true.

In the probation report there's a statement from the father of the 13-year-old victim in the 2000 case. The victim was very uncomfortable living in that neighborhood after she was assaulted. The mother took the victim to San Francisco to stay with relatives while the father took care of finding a new home for the family.

eyes4crime
03-12-2010, 04:02 PM
In the probation report there's a statement from the father of the 13-year-old victim in the 2000 case. The victim was very uncomfortable living in that neighborhood after she was assaulted. The mother took the victim to San Francisco to stay with relatives while the father took care of finding a new home for the family.

My heart aches for her - she had a horrific experience at a tender young age! She found herself fending off a monster! MOO mho jmo jmho

Leila
03-12-2010, 04:05 PM
I think it would be very difficult for co-workers to work with the mother at this point. Her field of psychiatric nursing is in dealing with sex offenders, and since she didn't make wise professional decisions in dealing with her own son, her opinion on how to handle a patient would be questionable.

I think we're seeing a level of anger with those around the mother and stepfather. First it was the neighbors and the graffiti on the garage door, and now the mother's co-workers at the hospital.

Voice4theSilent
03-12-2010, 04:56 PM
How do you know the victim had to move? I hope that is not true.

http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/03/616_1268174618.pdf

On page 5 there is a bit of information on what effect the attack had on the victim and her family, as stated by the victim's father:

"His family had to move from the home in which they were living. Being at home was like being in jail. His daughter also had to change schools. This case has hurt the family financially. He had to break his lease when he moved."

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 05:01 PM
I think it would be very difficult for co-workers to work with the mother at this point. Her field of psychiatric nursing is in dealing with sex offenders, and since she didn't make wise professional decisions in dealing with her own son, her opinion on how to handle a patient would be questionable.
I think we're seeing a level of anger with those around the mother and stepfather. First it was the neighbors and the graffiti on the garage door, and now the mother's co-workers at the hospital.

Well said, Leila.

My friend, who isn't even following this case that much, called me after she saw the news. It is shocking to say the least to see and hear about the group very closely connected to the accused sexual offender killer. My friend complained on and on about how wrong it would be to have the mother keep her position. She thinks the employer was insensitive to other employees by allowing that meeting to begin with, and should have not even considered letting the mother back at work. Says anyone who had a similar problem would not want to seek help from someone who obviously is unaware of the correct treatment for a RSO. My friend wants the mother arrested! She feels the mother must have figured out it could be her son who attacked on Dec 27th, and that you'd have to be a complete idiot to not consider it was the son. It could have saved Chelsea's life if the mother used her professional knowledge to get the right help for her son ASAP, but instead went running with her group. My friend is an average citizen and I was surprised at how upset and angry she is over this. This is not going to blow over.

Voice4theSilent
03-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Can't help but notice that 'mom' is getting 100% of the blame here - what about the male family member who molested JAG? What about the father who couldn't handle young kids? What about putting 100% of the blame on JAG? MOO

JAG's father didn't allow him to live in his home against the terms of his SO registration. There is some indication that the bio father was actually pushed out of his son's life by JAG's mother. Frankly, I do not know what happened but I do know his father wasn't the one who raised him. JAG was the one who stated his father couldn't handle young kids....in the same report that he outright lied about what had occured with the child he molested. (Not going to put much weight on that unless something comes out in the media to prove it.) Further, we heard from a relative on KFI that stated JAG was out of control and aggressive when he was very young.

I wouldn't be too surprised if he was molested but this is the first I am hearing of it and, again, it is from JAG himself. He was raised almost exclusively by his mother and the men she brough into his life, not his father.

Yes, JAG is 100% responsible for his crimes however his mother is responsible for her portion of helping create the man/monster he is.

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 06:27 PM
Everything is JMO here and I'm always open to trying to see this from other angles.

As I understand it, helicopters were going overhead describing the attacker on Dec 27th, or at least giving the neighbors a warning to keep their eyes open for this predator. I believe the group including the mother were hearing about this attack on the jogger on the same trails. Many people, not just me, are going to keep questioning why it never crossed her mind that it could be her son attacking young women joggers. She is somewhat guilty, as well, for not making that rather obvious connection. As far as I'm concerned, from that point forward she was knowingly harboring a out of control Violent Sex Offender in her home, hiding his true identity. Chelsea's death could have been prevented had the parent(s) done anything to stop him. Blood on their hands too, if you examine this carefully.

eyes4crime
03-12-2010, 07:12 PM
IMO Chelsea's death, along with Amber's murder (if Jag responsible) and all the trauma the 13yo and other young girls encountered could have been prevented by so many, including LE. Of course, the family unit has played a role in raising a 'monster' but are they guilty? And if so, of what?

IMO if JAG told someone about a family member sexually abusing him, that is not a lie. Boys would rather make up a 100 things before telling anyone about their sexual abuse. I believe it happened and repeated sex abuse could account for many of his childhood symptoms. Over and over in sex crimes, you see the family protecting the perp - they live with, and are sheltered by, parents, sister, nieces, nephews, grandparents etc. Family guilt can explain a lot. MOO

With that said, I honestly didn't know JAG lived with his mom when he got out of prison. Also, I didn't know she worked exclusively with SO - that alone gives JAG a 'safe' appearance to others - we here at websleuth know there is no cure, but the rest of the world doesn't know that. I wonder what 'cure' is put forth at the hospital mom works? MOO

I'm sorry saying mom isn't guilty - I didn't know he lived with her and that she hid and harrbored a SO for what, 3 or 4 years. That does make a difference in blame. However, JAG is the one who raped, tormented, and murdered - that alone belongs to him. MHO

concentric
03-12-2010, 07:27 PM
What I don't understand is why NG or JVM aren't commenting on this topic. Were they advised not to bring it up?

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 07:59 PM
We always know things before them, but I, too, wonder why they aren't touching it. The group fits under the umbrella of a larger international club and perhaps that's why for now. Legal advice? Don't worry though in a few days it'll be an issue or bombshell.

Curious Me
03-12-2010, 08:08 PM
JVM is coming on now. She's going to talk about Gardner being a father of twins. Now, I am praying they leave the twins and their mother alone. Some people, innocent, will be hurt by the actions of this one person. The ripple effect is still rippling.



Okay...so far, JVM with no clue about that particular group other than the drinking and running part, but not the photos on the news as we were seeing and discussing. But wait, someone will tell JVM the rest of the story soon.

Chelsea's Memorial Service is tomorrow. Chelsea's gone, Amber's gone, and I suspect a lot of people aren't going to calm down about it anytime soon.

Voice4theSilent
03-12-2010, 10:37 PM
What I don't understand is why NG or JVM aren't commenting on this topic. Were they advised not to bring it up?


Maybe they are members? :waitasec: (kidding)

Ghostwheel
03-13-2010, 12:30 AM
Friend remembers 'wild and crazy' Gardner
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/12/gardnerfriend/

MCDRAW
03-13-2010, 12:37 AM
I'm not one to blame parents for the crimes of their children. I just believe that everyone makes their own choices regardless of their up bringing. The fact that his Mom is a psychiatric nurse that works with RSO's does give me pause. I wonder could she not see the signs because it was her son? Or did she see the signs but refused to accept them? You would think his arrest for the molestation of the 13 year old would have been a huge wake up call. I'm really thinking for her to ever be respected again, she will need to find a new profession.

primetimemom
03-13-2010, 12:45 AM
I'm not one to blame parents for the crimes of their children. I just believe that everyone makes their own choices regardless of their up bringing. The fact that his Mom is a psychiatric nurse that works with RSO's does give me pause. I wonder could she not see the signs because it was her son? Or did she see the signs but refused to accept them? You would think his arrest for the molestation of the 13 year old would have been a huge wake up call. I'm really thinking for her to ever be respected again, she will need to find a new profession.

Good point McDraw. As a parent of grown children myself I do not always agree with their choices, yet I would be the first to sound the alarm if I thought they were responsible for a crime against another person. I would be HYPER aware if they had a prior conviction for sexual abuse and I can not understand why the mother did not have the same sensibility. The only thing I can think of is complete denial. She does need to be re-assigned in her job IMO.

Leila
03-13-2010, 01:50 AM
There's other areas of psychiatric care that the mother could work in - drug or alcohol abuse for instance. I don't see any way she could return to working with sex offenders as she wouldn't be deemed credible by any co-workers who are aware of her family background.

Voice4theSilent
03-13-2010, 02:26 AM
There's other areas of psychiatric care that the mother could work in - drug or alcohol abuse for instance. I don't see any way she could return to working with sex offenders as she wouldn't be deemed credible by any co-workers who are aware of her family background.


I am not so sure counseling others on alcohol abuse would be a good career move for her.

LittleMsFortune
03-13-2010, 08:07 AM
While I do think "Mommy Dearest" should share some of the responsibility of her son's actions- what about his girlfriend/mother of his twins? The black sedan is hers and she obviously knew he was driving it- how much does she know?? Where did she think JAG was going everytime he left in it? Maybe he lied and said was working? What did she drive when he had her car- does she have a job?
At the very least she had to know he was a RSO right? They lived together in Esco then he moved out but she still let him drive her car?! Maybe she just recently found out- or didn't want to believe JAG was really doing all these terrible things... Could JAG have had everyone THAT snowballed into believing he was a totally different person?! Doesn't seem like he is all that cunning- smooth talker/pathological liar definately... I think Ambers tip may have come from the girlfriend- time to shake her down and find out what the hell was going on in JAGs life!
Shake "Mommy Dearest" down too- she either helped to cover up JAGs monster tendencies or knows A LOT more than she wants people to believe- something not right about her for sure...

Ugh- sooo many questions, not enough answers!!

This article was really interesting and got me thinking- sorry for the tirade lol

http://theenterprisereport.typepad.com/news/2010/03/exclusive-sex-offender-john-gardner-chelsea-king-and-the-missing-link-a-black-car.html

MCDRAW
03-13-2010, 12:14 PM
While I do think "Mommy Dearest" should share some of the responsibility of her son's actions- what about his girlfriend/mother of his twins? The black sedan is hers and she obviously knew he was driving it- how much does she know?? Where did she think JAG was going everytime he left in it? Maybe he lied and said was working? What did she drive when he had her car- does she have a job?
At the very least she had to know he was a RSO right? They lived together in Esco then he moved out but she still let him drive her car?! Maybe she just recently found out- or didn't want to believe JAG was really doing all these terrible things... Could JAG have had everyone THAT snowballed into believing he was a totally different person?! Doesn't seem like he is all that cunning- smooth talker/pathological liar definately... I think Ambers tip may have come from the girlfriend- time to shake her down and find out what the hell was going on in JAGs life!
Shake "Mommy Dearest" down too- she either helped to cover up JAGs monster tendencies or knows A LOT more than she wants people to believe- something not right about her for sure...

Ugh- sooo many questions, not enough answers!!

This article was really interesting and got me thinking- sorry for the tirade lol

http://theenterprisereport.typepad.com/news/2010/03/exclusive-sex-offender-john-gardner-chelsea-king-and-the-missing-link-a-black-car.html


If the girlfriend knew about Amber, and from the news article it appears she did, then I believe she has blood on her hands too. She would have had to known the exact location. At any time she could have made an anonymous tip. I believe he could have had her fooled and she could have just pieced it together except for the exact location of Amber's body. She couldn't have just pieced that together. JAG made his choices and he is responsible but if his Mother or girlfriend had made different choices the outcome may have been different.

Leila
03-13-2010, 05:57 PM
While I do think "Mommy Dearest" should share some of the responsibility of her son's actions- what about his girlfriend/mother of his twins? The black sedan is hers and she obviously knew he was driving it- how much does she know?? Where did she think JAG was going everytime he left in it? Maybe he lied and said was working? What did she drive when he had her car- does she have a job?
At the very least she had to know he was a RSO right? They lived together in Esco then he moved out but she still let him drive her car?! Maybe she just recently found out- or didn't want to believe JAG was really doing all these terrible things... Could JAG have had everyone THAT snowballed into believing he was a totally different person?! Doesn't seem like he is all that cunning- smooth talker/pathological liar definately... I think Ambers tip may have come from the girlfriend- time to shake her down and find out what the hell was going on in JAGs life!
Shake "Mommy Dearest" down too- she either helped to cover up JAGs monster tendencies or knows A LOT more than she wants people to believe- something not right about her for sure...

Ugh- sooo many questions, not enough answers!!

This article was really interesting and got me thinking- sorry for the tirade lol

http://theenterprisereport.typepad.com/news/2010/03/exclusive-sex-offender-john-gardner-chelsea-king-and-the-missing-link-a-black-car.html


The relative that was interviewed on the John and Ken program was obviously a long term relative, as he related an incident that happened when he was babysitting with JAG who was then 8-years-old. The relative said that the extended family was told that the 2000 incident in which the 13-year-old was molested was different from what we now know. He was told that the 13-year-old made advances toward JAG, then said she was raped, and later recanted.

Obviously the 2000 molestation was downplayed by the immediate family - JAG and his mother/stepfather. So, it's not likely the girlfriend knew the real circumstances if she even knew he was an RSO. If she knew he was an RSO, she was probably told it was all a big mistake.

The girlfriend is young, and probably believed what she was told. But, I do think she had clues somewhere along the line that something wasn't right. According to the relative that was interviewed on the radio program, in February JAG's girlfriend broke up with him, he was in a car accident and his car (the gold one) was totaled, and he was kicked out of his grandmother's house.

The girlfriend probably can give LE some good solid information about JAG.

Voice4theSilent
03-13-2010, 07:16 PM
Who knows if his later girlfriend even knew about his conviction. When I was dating in my 20's I didn't think to check if any guys I was dating were registered sex offenders or criminals (and I doubt his mom was telling anyone, especially given her level of denial.) If my boyfriend borrowed my car to go to the store and took 15 minutes longer than expected I definitely wouldn't think anything of it, or if he dropped me off at work and took the car to run errands I would assume he was doing just that.

I assume the mother of his twins knew he was a SO though, as he would have been wearing an ankle bracelet when they were dating. Do we knowhow long that relationship lasted?

JBean
03-13-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm not one to blame parents for the crimes of their children. I just believe that everyone makes their own choices regardless of their up bringing. The fact that his Mom is a psychiatric nurse that works with RSO's does give me pause. I wonder could she not see the signs because it was her son? Or did she see the signs but refused to accept them? You would think his arrest for the molestation of the 13 year old would have been a huge wake up call. I'm really thinking for her to ever be respected again, she will need to find a new profession.
I have a severely (with a capital S) bipolar son. I didn't give him bipolar and don't take responsibility for his choices or his condition. However, with that said, I do have to accept the fact that he has to have very specialized treatment,medication, weekly therapy, and whole host of other time consuming, difficult and stressful management measures. It is that level of commitment to our children and ultimately to our community that may be missing here. Leaving a bipolar I person to their own devices can have catastrophic results, as may be the case here. It is not for the faint of heart and most of us are just not equipped to handle this condition at this level. i could not do anything for my son without constant professional guidance.

So, I don't blame anyone's parents for what their children become, but I do think they have a responsibility to try to help them reach their law abiding potential. If this mother had any indication at any time that her sons behavior could be a danger to society she had an obligation to act. I think the 2000 molestation was indication enough for anyone.

The missing piece is we do not know what she did or didn't do. So, I will withhold judgement until we know what she may have done to help her son and the community.


ETA: I realize that we do not really know if he is bipolar, but replace that with any kind of psychological disorder and my point is the same.

MCDRAW
03-13-2010, 11:33 PM
I have a severely (with a capital S) bipolar son. I didn't give him bipolar and don't take responsibility for his choices or his condition. However, with that said, I do have to accept the fact that he has to have very specialized treatment,medication, weekly therapy, and whole host of other time consuming, difficult and stressful management measures. It is that level of commitment to our children and ultimately to our community that may be missing here. Leaving a bipolar I person to their own devices can have catastrophic results, as may be the case here. It is not for the faint of heart and most of us are just not equipped to handle this condition at this level. i could not do anything for my son without constant professional guidance.

So, I don't blame anyone's parents for what their children become, but I do think they have a responsibility to try to help them reach their law abiding potential. If this mother had any indication at any time that her sons behavior could be a danger to society she had an obligation to act. I think the 2000 molestation was indication enough for anyone.

The missing piece is we do not know what she did or didn't do. So, I will withhold judgement until we know what she may have done to help her son and the community.


ETA: I realize that we do not really know if he is bipolar, but replace that with any kind of psychological disorder and my point is the same.


I agree.

Natal
03-13-2010, 11:55 PM
How do you know the victim had to move? I hope that is not true.

The victim moved, but she didn't "have to". I expect those around her felt that being in a new location where everyone didn't know who she was would be better for her.

Sometimes (probably a lot of times) people tend to turn these things into secrets and try to sweep them into the closet (metaphorically speaking) instead of being open about what happened to them. The most effective way of doing that is to simply go live somewhere else.

passionflower
03-14-2010, 12:04 AM
Friend remembers 'wild and crazy' Gardner
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/12/gardnerfriend/

The wacky guy who walks into convenience stores wearing nothing but a paper bag over his head and yells, Im naked.

Or holds onto car bumpers to get hauled up mountain roads on in-line skates as they smoke and melt.

snipped from above article...........

Natal
03-14-2010, 12:06 AM
Well said, Leila.

My friend, who isn't even following this case that much, called me after she saw the news. It is shocking to say the least to see and hear about the group very closely connected to the accused sexual offender killer. My friend complained on and on about how wrong it would be to have the mother keep her position. She thinks the employer was insensitive to other employees by allowing that meeting to begin with, and should have not even considered letting the mother back at work. Says anyone who had a similar problem would not want to seek help from someone who obviously is unaware of the correct treatment for a RSO. My friend wants the mother arrested! She feels the mother must have figured out it could be her son who attacked on Dec 27th, and that you'd have to be a complete idiot to not consider it was the son. It could have saved Chelsea's life if the mother used her professional knowledge to get the right help for her son ASAP, but instead went running with her group. My friend is an average citizen and I was surprised at how upset and angry she is over this. This is not going to blow over.

It isn't the mother's fault, she didn't hurt anyone. Parent's will be parents, usually they don't see the warning signs that everyone thinks they should have seen, especially when it comes to a child they have known all their lives - love has a tendency to blind. The co-workers and neighbors are being unreasonable, they need to direct their anger at JAG, where it belongs, not at his family and friends.

cluciano63
03-14-2010, 12:14 AM
I think it is easy to say that responsible mothers would turn in their children if they knew or suspected they were a danger to others, but maybe not as easy to do. I have to think very hard to try to guess what my mother would have done; i guess it depends on how the intial crime/conviction was presented or sold to her, and most mothers want to believe their child, even over law enforcement and i have to think my mother, who was extremely responsible, law-abiding and careful, would have tended to believe my brother, if this were the case.

That said, I am not getting the best impression about JAG's mother. Granted, some of the stuff coming out may be taken out of context or sensationilzed by media (excuse spelling) but there must be something to the stories. And we do not know for sure what she knew about his requirement to register, despite her job, as he could have told her that when he went off probation he was done with that. Again, I am giving her benefit of doubt she may not deserve but I hate to see parents take blame for their adult children (although many are quick to take credit, if they turn out well :)

SoCalSleuth
03-14-2010, 01:56 AM
I agree that parents should not be held responsible for their children's choices, especially when mental health issues are involved. And we don't know what she did or didn't do to get him help for whatever are his various afflictions--(although I did read a post from an alleged friend that said she did nothing because he did not have health insurance)--in any event, we do know that she knew he was a child molester and she allowed him to live in her house, knowing full well that address wasn't registered as his residence. Could it have made a difference? I guess we'll never know.