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UtahMom
03-19-2010, 11:19 AM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

March 18, 2010 - (Updated) Linda Osborne, who has been out in the desert for months trying to find clues into the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell, came across a cement strip last month the size of a body that she reported to police.

On February 16 Osborne was out searching in Utah's West Desert. She stumbled upon a concrete strip about 7' long and about 2.5' to 3' wide. One area of the strip was wider than the other, appearing it could be covering a body, the wider area possibly the size of a person's shoulders.

The area where Osborne located the cement strip is off of Hwy 80 near the Skull Valley Road off ramp, There is an old abandoned gas station at Rowley Junction. The cement strip is down a dirt road off of Skull Valley Road at Rowley Junction about 500 to 750 feet from the abandoned gas station.

"This piece of cement is not something that was left behind from the abandoned station. It was clearly poured in its current location," Osborne said.

Osborne has found many things while searching in the desert. She's found items such as one child's shoe with no matching shoe in the area, which she's found suspicious. She once found a plastic bag with what appeared to be trash, clothing, and two large jars of Vaseline. One jar was ˝ empty, the other almost empty. These types of findings are disturbing.

It is rare that Osborne reports such things to the police as the West Desert is, unfortunately, used as a dumping ground by many.

But, she believes this cement strip is suspicious and worthy of an investigation.

Osborne understands police don't have time to investigate everything, but believes the cement strip is something that should be looked into. In all the time she's been searching she's never seen anything like it.

On February 17 Osborne contacted the West Valley City Police via email to their investigative department through their website, providing information about her finding.

She did not hear back from the department for about a week. Then, she received an email from Kim Waeley of West Valley Police, requesting photos.

Osborne emailed two photos of the cement strip to Waely and has never heard back from West Valley City Police.

Examiner.com contacted West Valley City Police Department Capt. McLachlan late Thursday afternoon for comment. McLachlan said, "I passed the information along to investigators but I'm not sure who's handling it. We can't look here and there, it would be a dog and pony show. We can't check everything and report back to everyone, it would be counterproductive."

Osborne also contacted the Tooele County Sheriff's Department via email, providing them with a map, information about her findings, and photos. She never heard back from them either.

On March 16 Osborne returned to the site to see if investigators had removed the cement strip, or had thoroughly investigated it.

Osborne was surprised to find it had not been moved and that the only change she could see was one area where small pieces of cement were missing from one corner from the narrow end of the strip. The largest chip was about 5" by 4" in size, the others were quite small. It did not appear an extensive search was done on the cement.

Osborne told Examiner.com there are free-range cattle in the area and that on both February 16 and March 16 she saw horse hoof prints close to the cement strip.

She believes the missing pieces could be a result of horses or free-range cattle stepping on the cement strip, causing it to chip.

Osborne also mentioned there is a well about 5 feet from where the cement strip was seen that could have been used as a water source for mixing cement. The well is such that someone could jump into it to retrieve water, or that someone could use a bucket to retrieve water.

"We understand the understaffing of law enforcement agencies today, but volunteer services can do much to assist police," Osborne said. "Volunteers can handle much of the legwork. Search groups are willing to help at no cost to the City. This includes certified cadaver search dogs and scent-tracking search dogs. "

Search dogs in this case, Osborne said, would be of great value in determining if further investigation is warranted. However, they cannot be utilized without the direction of police.

"I have learned from volunteer search and rescue groups that they will not respond to citizens' or volunteer searchers' requests without being asked by the law enforcement agency handling the case," Osborne said.

"In the case of the cement strip, it seems logical to initially utilize a cadaver dog to see if it picks up a scent. If so, it would call for further investigation. However," Osborne continued, "because the search and rescue groups will not respond without police direction, searchers are dependent upon police for the use of cadaver dogs and other search tools."

Without the tools available to police, searchers are extremely limited. This is why it police involvement would be helpful to citizens wishing to assist in the search for Susan.

"I also researched mine exploration groups and relayed to police that they are available at no cost," Osborne said.

It is well known that Utah has hundreds of mines in desolate areas of the desert, some with shafts dropping 100-200 feet.

It has been said that if someone were to use these mine shafts to dispose of a body, the body would never be found. "This comment is what initiated my investigating the availability of cadaver dogs for searches."

Osborne said, "I would hope to receive confirmation from police that they plan to check it out or that they have checked out the cement strip."

It could be Susan, it could be someone else, or it could be nothing.

The question is, what is worthy of reporting to police? What will they take seriously? What will they investigate?

"I'm not the only one seeking answers - Susan's friends, family, and all those who have grown to know and love her want to know what happened to Susan?"

Please leave your comments below or email them isabelle.zehnder@comcast.net.

For more information about Susan's case, visit www.seattleheadlinesexaminer.com and click on "missing persons" link. For articles prior to Dec. 31, visit www.seattlefamilyexaminer.com and click on "Susan Powell" link.

Susan Cox Powell, 28, was reported missing Dec. 7, 2009. The last person to see her was her husband, Joshua "Josh" Powell. Josh is the only person of interest in the case of his wife's disappearance. Shelby Gifford, spokeswoman for Susan's family, said police call this a missing person's case with suspicious criminal overtones.

Friends, family, the public at large, and police are frustrated at Josh's lack of cooperation with police. Josh is now living in Puyallup, Wash., about 900 miles from the home where he and his wife raised their two young sons.

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 11:34 AM
Personally, I'd be out there with a chisel and a hammer and I'd have someone video taping if LE didn't address it by searching.

It "could" be someone's remains and goodness knows they deserve finding!!!

or it could be nothing...but it is definately suspicious.
My goodness the photo from the link LOOKS LIKE it is a BODY...don't understand why LE have not looked into this further!!!!

PS. Why aren't those old wells covered up???

Mesmerized
03-19-2010, 11:35 AM
I just read that article on Examiner a few minutes ago too, and came right over here to see what people were saying about it.

OMG, that picture is REALLY creeping me out!!!
I cannot believe it was still there when she went back on 3/16. Shouldn't they have busted it right open to see if anything is inside? Or maybe they used some kind of ultrasound or radar to check it already?

sharcaro
03-19-2010, 11:46 AM
If Le wont come check it out I would be tearing that up so fast to see if it is indeed a body under it... its not like they havent been told about it.

Cherry Baby
03-19-2010, 11:57 AM
That's really odd. Some random concrete truck didn't back up and pick that random spot to dump it's leftovers.

Even if it's somebody's pet buried under there it's well worth LE's time to send somebody out there with a shovel and tentatively dig.

Dr.Fessel
03-19-2010, 12:39 PM
I looked on map quest and there is some large buildings close to that spot and it does look like a dump of left overs, maybe from that building being construted?

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Rowley+Junction&state=UT

If anyone has a way of contacting this lady please tell her to get a small metal rod and have a cross handle welded on it or something. She can use that to stick into potential grave sites and then smell the end of it.

ohiogirl
03-19-2010, 12:43 PM
I liked this comment to the article.


"How much time would it take for someone from the law to go out and look at this? Maybe it's not Susan maybe it's another missing person,maybe it's nothing. But atleast go and rule it out.This case sounds fishy. Or are the police afraid the common Joe will find something that they over looked.Maybe if you put a box of donuts on top of the cement strip the police will go look at it. "

TGIRecovered
03-19-2010, 12:46 PM
Someone needs to go dig it up before one of the Powells goes out there and screws up the evidence. Stephen himself could dig it up and claim he only knew it was there after this woman found it.

I agree, video the whole thing, take close-up pics every step of the way, get just enough dug up to see what's under there and stop as soon as you get to a body. Call police, tell them you are standing there looking at a dead body and will wait for them to get there and finish recovering it!

carbuff
03-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Picture looks like it could be just a cement truck dumping the last of its load before heading home.

TGIRecovered
03-19-2010, 12:53 PM
I looked on map quest and there is some large buildings close to that spot and it does look like a dump of left overs, maybe from that building being construted?

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Rowley+Junction&state=UT

If anyone has a way of contacting this lady please tell her to get a small metal rod and have a cross handle welded on it or something. She can use that to stick into potential grave sites and then smell the end of it.

Ewwwewwweeee! I can't imagine poking a dead body with anything and then putting it up to my face to smell it! Yuck-ey-Poo!

grayjay
03-19-2010, 12:54 PM
I try really hard to give LE all the benefit of the doubt I can, but this is one of those things where reassuring this citizen would go a long way. I mean, did they not expect her to eventually tell someone else if she didn't get an answer?

They might have sent someone out to take a sample for dating and to find any chemical markers in it. They could also "look" under it with heat sensing equipment without disturbing a thing. Again, in my mind it's just a matter of not managing the PR very well.

I've hauled the odd bag of cement, and found that evidence of having hauled the stuff is very hard to get rid of. In a rental car? On clothes and tracked on shoes? They'd be on it like white on rice if it fit the facts. I think they just don't understand how disturbing this find was for Linda and now for the public, and have done a poor job of managing it.

RubyRed
03-19-2010, 01:36 PM
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/images/resized_Cement___Abandoned_Gas_Station_from_Linda_ Osborne2.jpg

Creepy. May not be connected, but should be checked.

http://www.seattleheadlinesexaminer.com/

Savmom
03-19-2010, 01:40 PM
Ewwwewwweeee! I can't imagine poking a dead body with anything and then putting it up to my face to smell it! Yuck-ey-Poo!

I agree with you but evn though it is disgusting, I can't stop :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

The image of someone (anyone) taking a piece of rebar with a handle welded to the top & poking into "potential graves" and sniffing the end just makes me crack up. I mean, I've got tears rolling down my face.

OK I'm a :loser::blushing:

Cindy

grayjay
03-19-2010, 02:09 PM
Thanks to Linda (and all the others who work without recognition) for searching and asking questions!

Cherry Baby
03-19-2010, 02:31 PM
It may be nothing but I so wish they'd check it out. That's what's going to crack this case is observant people.

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 03:08 PM
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/images/resized_Cement___Abandoned_Gas_Station_from_Linda_ Osborne2.jpg

Creepy. May not be connected, but should be checked.

http://www.seattleheadlinesexaminer.com/

Hiya RubyRed (my favorite colour) or any one else who hass skilled photo abilities,

Is there any way for you to enlarge this picture in order that we can see the consistancy of the cement? I'm wondering if there is some smaller rock and or sand in the cement mixture as proffessionals would use the smaller rock & sand (My Dad's a Carpenter)

Someone trying to "hide" a body quickly may just purchase cement and add water.

Can't believe LE has known about this for over a month and they still have not looked into this...SHAME on them!!!!!!!!!!!

grayjay
03-19-2010, 03:38 PM
Can't believe LE has known about this for over a month and they still have not looked into this...SHAME on them!!!!!!!!!!!
:waitasec:
How do you know they haven't? From all I can tell, we can only be sure they haven't reported back to the public on it.

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 03:46 PM
:waitasec:
How do you know they haven't? From all I can tell, we can only be sure they haven't reported back to the public on it.


http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-3...tion-Slideshow

On February 17 Osborne contacted the West Valley City Police via email to their investigative department through their website, providing information about her finding.

She did not hear back from the department for about a week. Then, she received an email from Kim Waeley of West Valley Police, requesting photos.

Osborne emailed two photos of the cement strip to Waely and has never heard back from West Valley City Police.

Examiner.com contacted West Valley City Police Department Capt. McLachlan late Thursday afternoon for comment. McLachlan said, "I passed the information along to investigators but I'm not sure who's handling it. We can't look here and there, it would be a dog and pony show. We can't check everything and report back to everyone, it would be counterproductive."

Osborne also contacted the Tooele County Sheriff's Department via email, providing them with a map, information about her findings, and photos. She never heard back from them either.

On March 16 Osborne returned to the site to see if investigators had removed the cement strip, or had thoroughly investigated it.

Osborne was surprised to find it had not been moved and that the only change she could see was one area where small pieces of cement were missing from one corner from the narrow end of the strip. The largest chip was about 5" by 4" in size, the others were quite small. It did not appear an extensive search was done on the cement.

grayjay
03-19-2010, 03:52 PM
This doesn't mean they didn't look and rule it out. A small chunk of cement could be sampled. Modern mixes are chemically tagged, right? From the photo, it looks like the deterioration of the mixture alone could indicate it has been there for years. Shame on them for not reporting back to her on their findings!

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 04:11 PM
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/Cement___Abandoned_Gas_Station_from_Linda_Osborne. jpg
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-3...tion-Slideshow

On February 17 Osborne contacted the West Valley City Police via email to their investigative department through their website, providing information about her finding.

She did not hear back from the department for about a week. Then, she received an email from Kim Waeley of West Valley Police, requesting photos.

Osborne emailed two photos of the cement strip to Waely and has never heard back from West Valley City Police.

Examiner.com contacted West Valley City Police Department Capt. McLachlan late Thursday afternoon for comment. McLachlan said, "I passed the information along to investigators but I'm not sure who's handling it. We can't look here and there, it would be a dog and pony show. We can't check everything and report back to everyone, it would be counterproductive."

Osborne also contacted the Tooele County Sheriff's Department via email, providing them with a map, information about her findings, and photos. She never heard back from them either.

On March 16 Osborne returned to the site to see if investigators had removed the cement strip, or had thoroughly investigated it.

Osborne was surprised to find it had not been moved and that the only change she could see was one area where small pieces of cement were missing from one corner from the narrow end of the strip. The largest chip was about 5" by 4" in size, the others were quite small. It did not appear an extensive search was done on the cement.

When I learned Tim Peterson reported Josh Powell having "the worst case of windburned hands he'd ever seen and that he kept putting lotion on them", it didn't dawn on me, until a few weeks later, that the irritation/burn could be from mixing cement with his hands.

Many years ago, I wanted to cement just a few rocks together and poured some concrete into a coffee can and added water then quickly mixed it with my bare hands then poured out the mixture.

Just that brief contact with the cement burned my hands so badly I was in total pain for about 1 1/2 weeks.

My hands were bright red and the burn was so painful I can't begin to describe it. I was constantly applying lotion to my hands.

I am not saying this is where Josh Powell buried Susan. But, it would surely explain the red hands and the trip with the rental car if Josh Powell returned to this site then proceeded to mix up concrete to cover the burial site.

He could have mixed the concrete with a stick, granted, but may have used his bare hands at some point to pat down the concrete. He may have simply poured out the bags of concrete over the area then poured water on it then tried to mix it with something and finally resorted to using his hands. If he wasn't wearing the proper gloves and they became thoroughly wet, the Portland Cement could have seeped through the gloves and made contact with his skin.

mysticrose
03-19-2010, 04:12 PM
If it was me and I knew police had not been there yet or prob. were not going to look at it, I would start digging.
It looks to me like it could possibly be dumped from a truck, like leftovers from a job, but it looks enough like a body could be under there that I would dig because I would have to know !

Dr.Fessel
03-19-2010, 04:18 PM
I agree with you but evn though it is disgusting, I can't stop :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

The image of someone (anyone) taking a piece of rebar with a handle welded to the top & poking into "potential graves" and sniffing the end just makes me crack up. I mean, I've got tears rolling down my face.

OK I'm a :loser::blushing:

Cindy

Police and searchers use this technique all the time for checking potential shallow graves.

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 04:24 PM
I agree with you but evn though it is disgusting, I can't stop :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

The image of someone (anyone) taking a piece of rebar with a handle welded to the top & poking into "potential graves" and sniffing the end just makes me crack up. I mean, I've got tears rolling down my face.

OK I'm a :loser::blushing:

Cindy

Police and searchers use this technique all the time for checking potential shallow graves.


Lololol! Savmom! Reminds me of this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4UEe98EkY

Dr.Fessel
03-19-2010, 04:26 PM
lololol! Savmom! Reminds me of this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4uee98eky

lol lol lol

RubyRed
03-19-2010, 04:28 PM
The cold weather that night, would not be conducive to mixing cement, would it ?

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 04:30 PM
If anyone has a way of contacting this lady please tell her to get a small metal rod and have a cross handle welded on it or something. She can use that to stick into potential grave sites and then smell the end of it.

Linda to friend: "I'll poke and you smell!"
Friend: "You didn't tell me that when I agreed to come all the way out here with you!"
Linda: "Well, I paid for the gas!"
Friend: "What does that have to do with it? You were going anyway!"
Linda: "Alright, I'll agree with you on that one but it's my tool! I paid to have it made!"
Friend: "What the hell?"
Linda (laughing): "I'm just playing with you. Seriously now, someone has to poke and someone has to smell! It will be faster if you'll cooperate with me on this, don't you agree?"
Friend: "Why can't I poke and you smell?"
Linda: "Because I'm stronger and my sense of smell is bad because I'm 25 years older than you!"
Friend: "How about if we take turns? You poke once, I smell, then I'll poke once and you smell?"
Linda: "That won't be very efficient! We have a lot of poking and smelling to do!"
Friend: "Oh my gosh! And, what if someone sees us? What will they think?"
Linda: "We have some serious poking to do and I'm not worried about what people will think about us! Plus, this rod is 3 feet longer than my car and it will take me forever to get to the end to sniff it!"
Friend: "Well make sure you don't lose that orange flag because you might get a ticket!"
Linda: "I'm getting really frustrated here. The reason I brought you was so you could sniff and I could poke! Are you going to help or not?"
Friend: "Well, let me tell you one thing, if I sniff and it smells like a dead body, I get half the reward then! Is that a deal!"
Linda: "I totally forgot about the reward. In fact, you can have the whole thing because that's not why I've been searching!"
Friend: "Now you're talking! Let's get busy! I hope you are a good poker because I know I'm a good smeller!"
Linda (laughing): I do hope we find Susan's body. But, can you imagine what sort of questions reporters will be asking us?"
Friend (laughing): "Oh man! I can hear them now asking us questions about poking and sniffing out in the desert! Oh wow! I think I need a beer right about now!"

smart blonde
03-19-2010, 04:38 PM
Years ago, my ex-husband was pouring our back patio, and somehow wet cement ended up in his boots, but he didn't realize it, and kept working.

Hours later, he had to go to the emergency room because of the cement burns on his feet.

I agree with the posters saying Josh may have had cement burns on his hands.

This discovery needs to be checked out right away!

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 04:46 PM
This doesn't mean they didn't look and rule it out. A small chunk of cement could be sampled. Modern mixes are chemically tagged, right? From the photo, it looks like the deterioration of the mixture alone could indicate it has been there for years. Shame on them for not reporting back to her on their findings!

my bold, You raise a good point grayjay

However, if you had a loved one missing and a visual such as this comes out especially in an area where it has previously been used as a dumping ground...

one would think LE would speak up and say this cement mound had definately been checked and it was not a tomb.

Families of missing loved ones and those wonderful people still out searching in the area for Susan deserve a break from the what if's. I can tell you I spent weeks out looking for a missing child(found deceased} and absolutely anything we tagged was immediately looked at by LE. Many times it IS the public who are so heartbroken and continue to search long after LE have left.

I do believe LE needs to address this publically

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 04:54 PM
The cold weather that night, would not be conducive to mixing cement, would it ?

http://www.sierrareadymix.com/concrete101.htm

WATER-CEMENT RATIO The Water-Cement Ratio of a concrete mixture is critical to its overall quality. Generally, a lower water-cement ratio allows for increased compressive and flexural strength, a better bond between the concrete and reinforcing steel, reduced shrinkage cracking, lower permeability, and a better resistance to wear and weather. In other words, the less water the better!

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/pouring-concrete-winter-during-cold-weather

Sometimes, out of necessity or eagerness, you may start working on the foundation of your log home in the middle of winter. Pouring concrete during cold weather can be a little tricky, because pouring concrete in freezing temperatures can cause serious problems. If you really want to pour concrete in winter there are some easy precautions you can take in order to help ensure that you’ll end up with a rock solid foundation.

First off, lets talk about what can happen if you pour concrete in cold weather without taking any precautions. Concrete cures through a chemical process that both creates and requires heat. If it cools too rapidly, due to cold weather, it can be seriously weakened (not desirable). You can also end up with fractures in your foundation caused by water freezing within the concrete, or can have spalling problems.

Generally the kind of cold weather that can negatively impact freshly poured concrete is 3 consecutive days of 40 F or below (average temp). Even if the temp is bouncing between the 40’s and 50’s you might still have problems. Effective communication with your concrete supplier, and checking your local weather report, should give you the definitive answer as to whether or not you’ll need to take extra precautions against cold weather at the time of your pour.

If you do end up needing to pour concrete in cold weather, then there are several different precautions you may want to take:

1) There are ‘anti-freeze like’ admixtures that can be effective at stopping the water within concrete from freezing. Such an admixture will extend the temperature range in which concrete can effectively cure.

2) Air-entrainment admixtures also help concrete deal with low temperatures by trapping tiny air bubbles within the mix, which in theory gives the freezing water someplace to gather without damaging your foundation.

3) A load of concrete can also be heated prior to leaving the yard. Starting out at a higher temp means it’ll stay warmer longer and can resist the cooling action of the cold weather long enough to form a good, solid set.

4) You can also request a mix of concrete that has extra cement added to it. That can help the mix quickly develop the strength needed to handle freezing temperatures.

5) Order a ‘drier’ mix of concrete. Since there will be less moisture within the mix that can freeze, the freezing effects of the temperatures will have less of an effect.

6) Use insulating blankets or insulated boxes to cover your foundation or pier blocks. This will help trap in the heat of the concrete preventing it from cooling too quickly. You can also use a ‘heated box’ of some sort if the weather is really cold.

When pouring in cold weather your concrete supplier will likely recommend one or more of the above precautions. Pay attention to what the supplier recommends, because after all they are the one who will be most familiar with what works best in your area – at the time of year your doing your pour.

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 04:59 PM
The cold weather that night, would not be conducive to mixing cement, would it ?

You can mix and pour concrete whenever you please. It just takes longer to dry when there is a lot of moisture in the air. This wasn't an art project or to build an overpass or something which required strength or needed to be pleasing to the eye.

In fact, people sometimes pour a bag of concrete down a fence post hole then simply add water in on top, and do this during the winter time. The amount of time it takes concrete to "cure" depends on the moisture in the air and the moisture content in the soil it is in contact with.

The faster the moisture evaporates or is absorbed into the surrounding soil, the faster it cures. The hotter the weather, the faster it dries/cures.

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 05:01 PM
You can mix and pour concrete whenever you please. It just takes longer to dry when there is a lot of moisture in the air. This wasn't an art project or to build an overpass or something which required strength.

In fact, people sometimes pour a bag of concrete down a fence post hole then simply add water in on top, and do this during the winter time. The amount of time it takes concrete to "cure" depends on the moisture in the air and the moisture content in the soil it is in contact with.

I live on a 100 acre farm and have done this in colder weather with no problems with it setting

grayjay
03-19-2010, 05:02 PM
I do believe LE needs to address this publicly
I agree. I'm surprised there was no quote from WVCPD in the Examiner article. I have the impression they've been fairly responsive, but maybe not on this?

snupy
03-19-2010, 05:06 PM
The cold weather that night, would not be conducive to mixing cement, would it ?

I was watching a home improvement show about setting fence posts the easiest way. You just pour the cement in the hole and pour water on top of it. No mixing necessary. He could have poured the mix on top of her and the snow and rain could have provided the necessary moisture?

http://www.sakrete.com/products/product.aspx?ID=FastSettingConcrete

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 05:06 PM
This doesn't mean they didn't look and rule it out. A small chunk of cement could be sampled. Modern mixes are chemically tagged, right? From the photo, it looks like the deterioration of the mixture alone could indicate it has been there for years. Shame on them for not reporting back to her on their findings!

The deterioration of the mix could be from rain hammering concrete that was not thoroughly cured.

If you think about the pebble cement patios, a strong stream of water is used to wash away the concrete to expose them before it has thoroughly cured. Heavy rain would cause the pocking and irregularities in the concrete pour.

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 05:11 PM
I was watching a home improvement show about setting fence posts the easiest way. You just pour the cement in the hole and pour water on top of it. No mixing necessary. He could have poured the mix on top of her and the snow and rain could have provided the necessary moisture?

http://www.sakrete.com/products/product.aspx?ID=FastSettingConcrete

This is true. However, he couldn't risk having the Portland cement, the gray powder part of the mixture that binds the aggregates, sand and rock, together, blow away so I doubt he just poured out the concrete and left it like that.

Whomever is responsible for this concrete slab probably used water from the nearby spring which is why they chose that particular spot.

snupy
03-19-2010, 05:34 PM
This is true. However, he couldn't risk having the Portland cement, the gray powder part of the mixture that binds the aggregates, sand and rock, together, blow away so I doubt he just poured out the concrete and left it like that.

Whomever is responsible for this concrete slab probably used water from the nearby spring which is why they chose that particular spot.

Good point, I did not think about the wind. I live in Utah and I wish I knew how to contact that person because I would go check it out BUT I will not smell any stick!!
:sick:

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 05:37 PM
Good point, I did not think about the wind. I live in Utah and I wish I knew how to contact that person because I would go check it out BUT I will not smell any stick!!
:sick:

Send me a message and I'll give you her e-mail address.

Dr.Fessel
03-19-2010, 05:43 PM
linda to friend: "i'll poke and you smell!"
friend: "you didn't tell me that when i agreed to come all the way out here with you!"
linda: "well, i paid for the gas!"
friend: "what does that have to do with it? You were going anyway!"
linda: "alright, i'll agree with you on that one but it's my tool! I paid to have it made!"
friend: "what the hell?"
linda (laughing): "i'm just playing with you. Seriously now, someone has to poke and someone has to smell! It will be faster if you'll cooperate with me on this, don't you agree?"
friend: "why can't i poke and you smell?"
linda: "because i'm stronger and my sense of smell is bad because i'm 25 years older than you!"
friend: "how about if we take turns? You poke once, i smell, then i'll poke once and you smell?"
linda: "that won't be very efficient! We have a lot of poking and smelling to do!"
friend: "oh my gosh! And, what if someone sees us? What will they think?"
linda: "we have some serious poking to do and i'm not worried about what people will think about us! Plus, this rod is 3 feet longer than my car and it will take me forever to get to the end to sniff it!"
friend: "well make sure you don't lose that orange flag because you might get a ticket!"
linda: "i'm getting really frustrated here. The reason i brought you was so you could sniff and i could poke! Are you going to help or not?"
friend: "well, let me tell you one thing, if i sniff and it smells like a dead body, i get half the reward then! Is that a deal!"
linda: "i totally forgot about the reward. In fact, you can have the whole thing because that's not why i've been searching!"
friend: "now you're talking! Let's get busy! I hope you are a good poker because i know i'm a good smeller!"
linda (laughing): I do hope we find susan's body. But, can you imagine what sort of questions reporters will be asking us?"
friend (laughing): "oh man! I can hear them now asking us questions about poking and sniffing out in the desert! Oh wow! I think i need a beer right about now!"

lol lol lol lol

snupy
03-19-2010, 05:45 PM
Send me a message and I'll give you her e-mail address.
I am not sure how to send a message, I usually just lurk

Dr.Fessel
03-19-2010, 05:55 PM
I am not sure how to send a message, I usually just lurk

Snupy, I think you have to have 25 post to be able to send a message, you can go into the game rooms and add post fast here...........
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

snupy
03-19-2010, 06:09 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

Linda says:
I don't currently believe this is Susan. I came across it while searching for her and thought it was a possibility at first, thus the report to WVPD, but upon returning and looking at size to layout of what might be a body, I think if this is a body, the hips would have to be less than about 32" around. It looks too small in the hip area, but could, of course, be someone else. I wouldn't be suspicious if I knew cement trucks dumped on other people's property all the time and saw more of these strips of concrete in the desert or elsewhere. This is the only one cement strip poured out there and I've never seen another anywhere in the county. I hope it is not a body, and it probably isn't, but would very easy to check while a deputy happens to be driving by there anyway.
I have heard about putting hands in concrete and the windburn like effect. I head from someone who did that it is extremely painful afterwards, not like just sunburn or windburn.

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 06:27 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

Linda says:
I don't currently believe this is Susan. I came across it while searching for her and thought it was a possibility at first, thus the report to WVPD, but upon returning and looking at size to layout of what might be a body, I think if this is a body, the hips would have to be less than about 32" around. It looks too small in the hip area, but could, of course, be someone else. I wouldn't be suspicious if I knew cement trucks dumped on other people's property all the time and saw more of these strips of concrete in the desert or elsewhere. This is the only one cement strip poured out there and I've never seen another anywhere in the county. I hope it is not a body, and it probably isn't, but would very easy to check while a deputy happens to be driving by there anyway.
I have heard about putting hands in concrete and the windburn like effect. I head from someone who did that it is extremely painful afterwards, not like just sunburn or windburn.

The person she is referring to was me as I was involved in a lengthy discussion about Josh's hands with her. And, the intensity or severity of the burns would depend on how long your skin was exposed and how soon thereafter the concrete was washed off.

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 06:33 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

Linda says:
I don't currently believe this is Susan. I came across it while searching for her and thought it was a possibility at first, thus the report to WVPD, but upon returning and looking at size to layout of what might be a body, I think if this is a body, the hips would have to be less than about 32" around. It looks too small in the hip area, but could, of course, be someone else. I wouldn't be suspicious if I knew cement trucks dumped on other people's property all the time and saw more of these strips of concrete in the desert or elsewhere. This is the only one cement strip poured out there and I've never seen another anywhere in the county. I hope it is not a body, and it probably isn't, but would very easy to check while a deputy happens to be driving by there anyway.
I have heard about putting hands in concrete and the windburn like effect. I head from someone who did that it is extremely painful afterwards, not like just sunburn or windburn.

The point is, if she doesn't think it is Susan's body at all, why the big article in the Seattle Examiner?

If she really thought it was Susan, why not take people out there to dig it up?

It's been a month and nothing has been done? Obviously she didn't think it is Susan or she would have gone to the Salt Lake Tribune and told them about it a long time ago.

Clearly this is something that was picked up on from a discussion on Facebook which has been made into a big deal by this reporter.

Are we really supposed to believe law enforcement didn't check it out?

Of course they checked it out! Perhaps they have knowledge of it being there prior to Susan Powell going missing.

Also, it is in such a location that it would be discovered quite easily and I doubt Josh would bury Susan in such a place much less leave a rounded mound like that which is so easily spotted.

Yes, I agree it is suspicious and I am certain law enforcement thoroughly investigated the report.

(In my opinion!)

Sailor Bug
03-19-2010, 06:41 PM
The person she is referring to was me as I was involved in a lengthy discussion about Josh's hands with her. And, the intensity or severity of the burns would depend on how long your skin was exposed and how soon thereafter the concrete was washed off.

There was 1/2 jars of vaseline found as well:waitasec:

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 06:50 PM
There was 1/2 jars of vaseline found as well:waitasec:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gifApparently some people were already out there poking and sniffing!http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif

RubyRed
03-19-2010, 06:59 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gifapparently some people were already out there poking and sniffing!http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif

lol, lol

KBH5
03-19-2010, 07:07 PM
Tooele County deputy heading today to check it out:

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Tooele-Sheriff-Deputy-on-his-way-to-West-Desert

Kimberlyd125
03-19-2010, 07:28 PM
Tooele County deputy heading today to check it out:

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Tooele-Sheriff-Deputy-on-his-way-to-West-Desert

Nothing like a little media coverage/criticism to get the ball rolling.

Kimberlyd125
03-19-2010, 07:31 PM
Snipped from article linked above: Sheriff Parks said he personally had not seen the email that Osborne sent in February with photos, a map, and description of what she found. Once he learned about the cement strip from Examiner.com he immediately sent a deputy to investigate.

CYA?

grayjay
03-19-2010, 07:39 PM
A deputy is going to check it out NOW? WT? If it turns out that this is Susan, it would have to be one of the most legendary LE screw-ups of modern times.

Cherry Baby
03-19-2010, 07:47 PM
That's good, at least they'll check it out. It may be nothing. I know what she is saying about the strip perhaps being too narrow for hips, but in the Land of Make Believe, if it is 'somebody' they could be shallow buried dumped on their side, with the concrete over that.

I know, I know - I'm reaching. Maybe it's just a pet. Or nothing.

Savmom
03-19-2010, 07:49 PM
Lololol! Savmom! Reminds me of this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4UEe98EkY

:rotfl:

OMG!!!!!!!!! If I was about to die laughing before, I must be dead now! That is the FUNNIEST thing I've seen in AGES! Thanks for the laugh, I needed that!!!!!

BTW:

I had no idea they poke & sniff to check for bodies, learn something new every day!

Cindy

jmarple
03-19-2010, 07:50 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

Linda says:
I have heard about putting hands in concrete and the windburn like effect. I head from someone who did that it is extremely painful afterwards, not like just sunburn or windburn. (Snipped)

Having had "cement poisoning" on my hands (I was making a stone fireplace), I can tell you it is very painful. I had to go to the doctor for it. Little bits of the cement mixture actually got under the skin on the palms of my hands and became red and swollen. It was most painful in the joints of my fingers. The little pieces eventually worked their way out. I don't remember it as feeling like windburn.

RubyRed
03-19-2010, 08:23 PM
Sheriff Deputy on his way to West Desert


"We've got a deputy on his way out there right now to see if he can locate it."


[QUOTE]Sheriff Parks said he personally had not seen the email that Osborne sent in February with photos, a map, and description of what she found. Once he learned about the cement strip from Examiner.com he immediately sent a deputy to investigate.[/QUOTE

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Tooele-Sheriff-Deputy-on-his-way-to-West-Desert

Sheriff, take the map that was sent. LOL LOL LOL

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 08:49 PM
(Snipped)

Having had "cement poisoning" on my hands (I was making a stone fireplace), I can tell you it is very painful. I had to go to the doctor for it. Little bits of the cement mixture actually got under the skin on the palms of my hands and became red and swollen. It was most painful in the joints of my fingers. The little pieces eventually worked their way out. I don't remember it as feeling like windburn.

Exactly what the most severe case of windburn Tim Peterson has ever seen looks like is in question here also. That was just what he figured it was. And, like I pointed out, the severity of the burns depends on how long the skin was exposed. The longer the Portland cement is on your skin, the deeper in it burns.

His hands were red to a degree where TV reporters noted that it could be seen in the news footage.

(I don't feel like looking for the YouTube videos at the moment.)

grayjay
03-19-2010, 09:12 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Tooele-Sheriff-Deputy-on-his-way-to-West-Desert

Sheriff, take the map that was sent. LOL LOL LOL

These are two different jurisdictions. I thought Linda contacted WVCPD, not Tooele County. They probably didn't get the memo. :croc:

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 09:18 PM
These are two different jurisdictions. I thought Linda contacted WVCPD, not Tooele County. They probably didn't get the memo. :croc:

Linda is VERY thorough and there is no doubt in my mind she contacted both the Tooele County Sheriff's Department and the West Valley City Police Department. Unless she deleted the e-mail, she should have proof that she did in fact send an e-mail which was obviously ignored.

gwenabob
03-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Linda is VERY thorough and there is no doubt in my mind she contacted both the Tooele County Sheriff's Department and the West Valley City Police Department. Unless she deleted the e-mail, she should have proof that she did in fact send an e-mail which was obviously ignored.

Wow, Pickie! You know everybody. How do you know Linda? Does she post here?

What if it did turn out to be Susan under there? It would explain Josh's hands.

There was a case here a few years back of a man, Ward Weaver, who killed a couple middle school girlfriends of his daughter. He buried them under cement slabs in his backyard. It was many months of waiting until the police finally dug them up. Reporters even walked on the cement walkways while they interviewed Ward Weaver.

I guess it is possible Josh thought it would be a good way to keep animals from digging her up and maybe keep cadaver dogs from smelling her.

PickieChickie
03-19-2010, 09:42 PM
Wow, Pickie! You know everybody. How do you know Linda? Does she post here?

What if it did turn out to be Susan under there? It would explain Josh's hands.

There was a case here a few years back of a man, Ward Weaver, who killed a couple middle school girlfriends of his daughter. He buried them under cement slabs in his backyard. It was many months of waiting until the police finally dug them up. Reporters even walked on the cement walkways while they interviewed Ward Weaver.

I guess it is possible Josh thought it would be a good way to keep animals from digging her up and maybe keep cadaver dogs from smelling her.

I know her from Facebook. She has been involved with the Susan Powell matter since the beginning. She goes out almost every weekend to search for Susan. She has a horse and is very dedicated to finding Susan. She has posted a lot on Facebook in the discussions regarding searches.

It would be something if it was Susan and would definatly make the WVCPD and the Tooele County Sheriff's Department look pretty bad, especially since this case has received extensive national media coverage.

Like I pointed out, I couldn't see him burying Susan there unless he was unaware of how close he was to an area that would get a lot of travel during the summer months. He very well could have gone back to this spot and when he realized he realized he'd picked a bad one, tried to cover up the grave with concrete. But, that would have meant purchasing or obtaining a large amount of concrete and I know for a fact that rental car couldn't have carried more than 10 one hundred pound bags because I have transported some in my car. Plus, someone would surely remember him buying some!

hollyblue
03-20-2010, 12:23 AM
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/Cement___Abandoned_Gas_Station_from_Linda_Osborne. jpg

When I learned Tim Peterson reported Josh Powell having "the worst case of windburned hands he'd ever seen and that he kept putting lotion on them", it didn't dawn on me, until a few weeks later, that the irritation/burn could be from mixing cement with his hands.

Many years ago, I wanted to cement just a few rocks together and poured some concrete into a coffee can and added water then quickly mixed it with my bare hands then poured out the mixture.

Just that brief contact with the cement burned my hands so badly I was in total pain for about 1 1/2 weeks.

My hands were bright red and the burn was so painful I can't begin to describe it. I was constantly applying lotion to my hands.

I am not saying this is where Josh Powell buried Susan. But, it would surely explain the red hands and the trip with the rental car if Josh Powell returned to this site then proceeded to mix up concrete to cover the burial site.

He could have mixed the concrete with a stick, granted, but may have used his bare hands at some point to pat down the concrete. He may have simply poured out the bags of concrete over the area then poured water on it then tried to mix it with something and finally resorted to using his hands. If he wasn't wearing the proper gloves and they became thoroughly wet, the Portland Cement could have seeped through the gloves and made contact with his skin.

If he used his bare hands we would have an excellent chance of some prints. I'm not in masonry, but find it hard to believe concrete/cement would set in below freezing weather. It still needs to checked out. If LE was out there earlier a couple times searching, wonder why they did not say they knew about it? Can someone give me a guesstimate how many square mile the west dessert is? TIA

PickieChickie
03-20-2010, 12:35 AM
If he used his bare hands we would have an excellent chance of some prints. I'm not in masonry, but find it hard to believe concrete/cement would set in below freezing weather. It still needs to checked out. If LE was out there earlier a couple times searching, wonder why they did not say they knew about it? Can someone give me a guesstimate how many square mile the west dessert is? TIA

The concrete cures in time. It can takes a day to weeks, depending on the weather. Meanwhile, if there's been rain, some of the portland cement, the powder part of concrete that binds the aggregate (sand, gravel, rocks) together would have washed away, leaving a jagged, strange appearance. So, if there was any bare hand patting, I doubt there would be finger or hand prints.

When Linda Osborne discovered the concrete, 70 or so days had passed since Susan disappeared which would have been long enough for it to cure if there were some dry days where the sun came out and the the humidity was low.

Of course Josh could have covered the area with plastic then removed it later but I doubt that he'd risk going back out there to do that!

hollyblue
03-20-2010, 01:33 AM
The concrete cures in time. It can takes a day to weeks, depending on the weather. Meanwhile, if there's been rain, some of the portland cement, the powder part of concrete that binds the aggregate (sand, gravel, rocks) together would have washed away, leaving a jagged, strange appearance. So, if there was any bare hand patting, I doubt there would be finger or hand prints.

When Linda Osborne discovered the concrete, 70 or so days had passed since Susan disappeared which would have been long enough for it to cure if there were some dry days where the sun came out and the the humidity was low.

Of course Josh could have covered the area with plastic then removed it later but I doubt that he'd risk going back out there to do that!

Thanks Pick, but I think the concrete would freeze before setting, capturing moisture within it. Although, it would eventually harden and set, it would be more likely to be cracking and crumbling as the moisture evaporates. Remember the ground was totally frozen and probably wet from snow. He couldn't even have dug a shallow grave.

What scares me now, is the thought of an abused child. Linda said the mass was less than 32" wide, one child's shoe, and jars of vaseline....God forbid.

poco
03-20-2010, 05:36 AM
Why would you go to all the trouble to mix up cement and pour it over a body and then leave the encasement in plain view of any passerbys???? Stupider things have been done by criminals I'm sure, but why wouldn't you dig a hole and then put the cement/body in the hole???? Why leave it right out there in the open like that? Of course if he buried her under ground, why would he need cement???

Kudos to Linda for her hard work, but I don't think there is a body under there.

PickieChickie
03-20-2010, 10:18 AM
Search for Susan: cement strip in desert?
Last Update: 3/19 10:46 pm

Friday, the Tooele County Sheriff's department sent a deputy out to locate and investigate the slab. At this time, investigators do not believe the cement strip is suspicious. However, they might be going back out soon to further investigate.
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Search-for-Susan-cement-strip-in-desert/niFnNkcxxkCBIO2S2pvdMA.cspx

mysticrose
03-20-2010, 11:05 AM
Why would you go to all the trouble to mix up cement and pour it over a body and then leave the encasement in plain view of any passerbys???? Stupider things have been done by criminals I'm sure, but why wouldn't you dig a hole and then put the cement/body in the hole???? Why leave it right out there in the open like that? Of course if he buried her under ground, why would he need cement???

Kudos to Linda for her hard work, but I don't think there is a body under there.

Hi Poco ... The pos that killed 5 year old Nevaeh Buch. dug a shallow grave and poured cement over her there on the river in plain view. Those fisherman found her after a piece broke off and the smell came out....Josh is not the brightest bulb in the pack. I certainly hope they can find Susan wether she is here or not someone could be there and I am glad that someone is finally going to look at it.

I told my husband yesterday that I was willing to drive over there and find it ( about 7 hour drive for me) just to make sure, he thinks I am nuts of course ...lol :crazy:

Bartleby
03-20-2010, 11:20 AM
Why would you go to all the trouble to mix up cement and pour it over a body and then leave the encasement in plain view of any passerbys???? Stupider things have been done by criminals I'm sure, but why wouldn't you dig a hole and then put the cement/body in the hole???? Why leave it right out there in the open like that? Of course if he buried her under ground, why would he need cement???

Kudos to Linda for her hard work, but I don't think there is a body under there.

Shortage of time, and hardness of the ground? If this is Susan't burial site, and Josh buried her there, he would have been in a tremendous panic to get done and leave. If he came back in the rental car with several bags of cement mix, all the more reason to hurry. He'd have been very lucky to have initially chosen a spot with a water source, unless he knew the site from previous visits.

I saw this thread yesterday, but like Pickie I couldn't believe that LE would not have immediately followed up the lead, if only to eliminate the site from their enquiries. Overlooking this lead until the press bought it to their attention (FCOL, the Police should be a bit smarter than this) is yet another screw-up by WVPD, the third by my count.

The choppy nature of the concrete surface suggests to me that it's more than just a tippage of excess concrete from a lorry, because that ought to be smooth and properly mixed. this stuff looks much more like it was mixed badly, manually, either with hands or a shovel, and on site.

With the right equipment they wouldn't have to break up or move the concrete to tell if there was a body inside. If they are suspicious that a body may be in or under the concrete they could do non-intrusive ultrasound and ground radar tests. They may need to borrow the equipment and services of an archeological team, but it can be done.

That the concrete is supposed not wide enough for hips is irrelevent, a body could be lying on its side under there, and may not have been in one piece.


This may turn out to be a random spillage or fly-tipping of concrete, but LE should definitely have visited the site the day the lead was given to them.


btw, the vaseline jars and child's shoe were found on different searches in different parts of the desert, and are not in any way related to this concrete "tomb", as I read the examoner.com article.

"Osborne has found many things while searching in the desert. She's found items such as one child's shoe with no matching shoe in the area, which she's found suspicious. She once found a plastic bag with what appeared to be trash, clothing, and two large jars of Vaseline. One jar was ˝ empty, the other almost empty. These types of findings are disturbing."

from

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

grayjay
03-20-2010, 11:57 AM
This spot, at least in the naming of the photo, refers to an old gas station. I've explored around old abandoned gas stations and there are the odd unexplained industrial-looking piles, not in the shape of a coffin, but similar enough that I'm wondering if it was put there to cover up a minor toxic waste dump of some sort, like oil or grease from the shop, for example, so that it wouldn't hurt anyone. It would sure help if someone could estimate the age of it.

As for the single shoe, I've seen them sometimes, too, and thought of how kids leave a trail everywhere and parents wonder what happened. They kick them off in temper tantrums, or "lose" them because they don't fit. If they step on a nasty bug, they'll disown a shoe.

Vaseline? It's been ages since that's been the lubricant of choice for anything. There was a time, though, when people actually thought it helped with sunburn.

What I've learned from the desert, is that a lot of people are either ignorant or just slobs and have no respect for it.

PickieChickie
03-20-2010, 04:24 PM
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab204/JoshPowellBankruptcy/100320100020Cement___Abandoned_Gas_.jpg

I'd like to know what the object is that I've circled. It almost looks like a SMASHED rusty, metal 5 gallon bucket. Perhaps this is the place where the gas station dumped used oil years ago.

Also, the Tooele County Sheriff's Department deputy could NOT locate the concrete strip in the photo above and will be going out again to try to locate it. All they could find was a pile of dumped concrete pieces.

Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d20-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Tooele-County-Sheriffs-office-to-take-another-look-for-cement-strip

rd_jfc
03-20-2010, 06:40 PM
Hiya RubyRed (my favorite colour) or any one else who hass skilled photo abilities,

Is there any way for you to enlarge this picture in order that we can see the consistancy of the cement? I'm wondering if there is some smaller rock and or sand in the cement mixture as proffessionals would use the smaller rock & sand (My Dad's a Carpenter)

Someone trying to "hide" a body quickly may just purchase cement and add water.

Can't believe LE has known about this for over a month and they still have not looked into this...SHAME on them!!!!!!!!!!!

I enlarged 3 and 5 times larger. Browser will likely scale down, but if you save to your PC you should be able to see fully enlarged with any image software (I use the free or low cost Paint Shop Pro).

www.justiceforchandra.com/~rd/SusanPowellCementstrip.jpg
www.justiceforchandra.com/~rd/SusanPowellCementstrip3.jpg
www.justiceforchandra.com/~rd/SusanPowellCementstrip5.jpg

rd

PickieChickie
03-20-2010, 07:09 PM
Is there any way for you to enlarge this picture in order that we can see the consistancy of the cement?

The best way to enlarge the photo without distorting it is to hold down your Ctrl key then push your + key repeatedly until it is as large as it will go, making sure it isn't distorted at the very largest size. (I've discovered the next to the last possible enlargement is the best view.)

Once it's enlarged, hopefully you'll have a good quality magnifying glass to inspect it even closer.


http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab204/JoshPowellBankruptcy/cementstripenlarged.jpg
Screen shot of enlarged photo while using Cntrl +

RubyRed
03-20-2010, 08:05 PM
West Desert (Courtesy Linda Osbourne)

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/100320100020North_of_Simpson_Springs_Courtesy_of_L inda_Osborne.jpg

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/100320100021Big_Springs_Courtesy_Linda_Osborne.jpg


http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/100320100021Trail_off_Pony_Express_Trail_Courtesy_ Linda_Osborne.jpg

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/100320100022Susan_sitting_on_the_ground_F_and_F.jp ghttp://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/slideshows/100320100022Nice_photo_of_Susan_F_and_F.jpg

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d20-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Tooele-County-Sheriffs-office-to-take-another-look-for-cement-strip

Sad that Susan is out there somewhere.

pudd
03-20-2010, 10:13 PM
I know we're talking about searching for Susan who is more than likely dead, but gosh that Western Desert is gorgeous!

jmarple
03-20-2010, 10:34 PM
Thank you for sharing the pictures. Such a huge area to search for Susan. Also, thank you to all who have been searching and are planning to search.

rd_jfc
03-20-2010, 11:47 PM
I was referring to an online technique available to people who don't have fancy software like you have. You misunderstood me.

I apologize. I caught a lot of grief with blow ups of Jennifer Kesse POI where people didn't like enlarging photos, and told me so.

The CTL+ with magnifying glass as you mention is good enough to see surface texture of concrete which was what he was looking fior. However, the blowups I posted will display in the browser, plenty large enough to see fine detail.

Also for others, I mentioned I use the free or low cost Paint Shop Pro. Used to be a free download. Works very well.

I actually tried the CTL+ in my browser before I posted to see if I vould get it to show full size, but it zooms the scaled down, so just was mentioning for anyone that wanted to see at full blown up resolution. I couldn't make out anything significant in it however.

thanks PixieChickie.

rd

Vegas Bride
03-21-2010, 12:21 AM
The cold weather that night, would not be conducive to mixing cement, would it ?

Maybe not that night, but what about when he took off in the rental car?

VB

grayjay
03-21-2010, 09:20 AM
Maybe not that night, but what about when he took off in the rental car?

VB
When he said, "She's somewhere out there," I got the impression he may have gone back and not been able to find the exact spot. When the reporter asked about Moab, I got the sense he was hoping to be quite vague in that direction. I wish I knew if LE had good data or are just guessing about the West Desert at this point.

Mysterylover
03-21-2010, 11:38 AM
Why would you go to all the trouble to mix up cement and pour it over a body and then leave the encasement in plain view of any passerbys????
Stupider things have been done by criminals I'm sure, but why wouldn't you dig a hole and then put the cement/body in the hole????
Why leave it right out there in the open like that? Of course if he buried her under ground, why would he need cement???

Kudos to Linda for her hard work, but I don't think there is a body under there.

Poco, Wouldn't the ground have been frozen and too hard to dig a large hole?

What other things getting on his hands, other than concrete, could have caused his hands to have stayed so very RED?

Mysterylover
03-21-2010, 11:54 AM
Maybe not that night, but what about when he took off in the rental car?

VB

Vegas, Is there anyway LE can tell where and how far the rental car was driven?
In my opinion, any place this guy sayes he went, LE should be going and looking in the opposite direction.

PickieChickie
03-21-2010, 12:04 PM
Vegas, Is there anyway LE can tell where and how far the rental car was driven?
In my opinion, any place this guy sayes he went, LE should be going and looking in the opposite direction.

WEST VALLEY CITY — A car rented by Josh Powell two days after his wife was reported missing was returned just 24 hours later with a lot of miles on it, according to police.

"It looks like there were several hundred miles driven," West Valley Police Capt. Tom McLachlan told the Deseret News.

Investigators do not know where the car was taken or where Josh Powell was during that 24-hour period. There was no GPS data stored in that rental car, said McLachlan, who declined Monday to say from where the vehicle was rented.

SOURCE: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353130/Police-probing-Powells-rental-car.html

I seem to remember reading an article that said there were 343 miles on the rental car. But, I'm not certain.

Desertwind
03-21-2010, 03:23 PM
curious what kind of car, and if it was big enough to carry cement, or if there were traces?

PickieChickie
03-21-2010, 04:40 PM
curious what kind of car, and if it was big enough to carry cement, or if there were traces?

It is believed the car Josh gets out of is the rental car as this interview took place during the time he reportedly rented it. Law enforcement didn't learn about the car rental until several days later and did not impound it until it had been rented several times. I've transported concrete in my car and could only carry 5 100 pound bags in the trunk, 4 100 pound bags in the back seat and three 100 pound bags in the front seat. (I could have fit more in the trunk but adding more would have made the wheel wells touch the tires!)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8

RubyRed
03-21-2010, 05:10 PM
[QUOTE=PickieChickie;4959491]It is believed the car Josh gets out of is the rental car as this interview took place during the time he reportedly rented it. Law enforcement didn't learn about the car rental until several days later and did not impound it until it had been rented several times. I've transported concrete in my car and could only carry 5 100 pound bags in the trunk, 4 100 pound bags in the back seat and three 100 pound bags in the front seat. (I could have fit more in the trunk but adding more would have made the wheel wells touch the tires!)

So they did eventually impound it. This sounds like a major screw up. I sure hope they are going to get this guy. With forensics back and nothing happening, I am starting to wonder.

grayjay
03-21-2010, 06:11 PM
So they did eventually impound it. This sounds like a major screw up. I sure hope they are going to get this guy. With forensics back and nothing happening, I am starting to wonder.
Me too. I hoped the meetings Chuck Cox had this past week might at least lead to something. I'm wondering about a grand jury, too. So many mines and caves and creepy toxic places to check. Maybe they're still going to be working on that for quite some time. I bet POI knows more about what they're doing now than we do. And that wouldn't seem right.

Mysterylover
03-21-2010, 06:13 PM
RubyRed, I'm getting the impression LE is slow on about everything related to this case.
Hope I'm wrong. I'd hate to think this guy might be one step ahead of LE.

I can't understand WHY LE did not have a detective following Josh after his flimsy camping excuse or atleast a tracking device on his vehicle.

Another thought I've had on J's red hands is,
what if he cut a hole in the ice on a frozen lake, pulling the ice-chunks out with his hands, in order to make a hole large enough through the ice, to drop the body in the lake?
Handling snow and ice would definately cause his hands to stay very red.

RayO
03-21-2010, 06:50 PM
Also for others, I mentioned I use the free or low cost Paint Shop Pro. Used to be a free download. Works very well.

rd

Or use Irfanview from irfanview.com
Its free for personal use.

As always, if something is posted on the 'net there may be a larger picture around, also on the 'net; try to find the largest source picture, first.

izehnder
03-21-2010, 08:38 PM
Update: Detectives plan to flip cement (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d21-Susan-Cox-Powell-Update-Detectives-plan-to-flip-cement-in-the-desert)

March 21, 2010 - Thursday Examiner.com reported that a cement strip the size and shape of a human body was found in the West Desert in Utah by a person searching for clues into the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell.

There is a possibility the cement strip is nothing more than a dump truck driver cleaning out his load, yet there's a possibility it could be someone's loved one underneath the cement.

Regardless what it is, people believe it's worthy of an investigation. The Tooele County Sheriff's Office agreed to investigate.

After going out to find the cement strip on Friday, Deputy N. Collins went again on Saturday to meet Linda Osborne, who initially located the cement strip, to confirm they were talking about the same thing.

Once the deputy confirmed the cement strip and heard Osborne's concerns, he requested she stay away from the strip. Osborne said, "The deputy requested I not get any closer in order to protect possible evidence. We were about 25' away from the cement strip."

Tooele Sheriff's Department Sgt. Gowans told Examiner.com Sunday morning that he is urging citizens to stay away from the area where the cement strip has been located until investigators have a chance to go and flip the cement, which he hopes will happen Monday. He has asked Examiner.com to contact the sheriff Monday afternoon for an update.

Osborne mentioned to Deputy Collins Saturday that the cement strip looked like it could possibly be a body because of the shape.

Deputy Collins said to her, "It very well could be."

Osborne asked the deputy if West Valley City Police had asked them to come to check this out and he said, "No, we're doing this on our own." During a phone conversation with Examiner.com Sunday morning, Sgt. W. Gowans confirmed the Tooele Sheriff's Department is doing this investigation on their own.

Saturday Dep. Collins told Osborne he would be referring this to their detective unit. "They will be going out to flip the cement to determine if anything is underneath," Dep. Collins said. Sgt. Gowans confirmed both of these facts to Examiner.com Sunday morning.

People are pleased that Tooele County Sheriff's office has acted so quickly and are taking this seriously.

During a phone conversation with Sheriff Frank Park Friday, he told Examiner.com, "We've got a deputy on his way out there right now to see if he can locate it."

Examiner.com spoke with Sheriff Frank Park Saturday who was quite certain this is cement someone dumped at the end of their load. He said, "There's a chance it's a cement run, which is when a truck dumps the end of their load, but we'll send a deputy out there again to confirm it."

A concerned citizen who wishes to remain anonymous said on Sunday morning he and his family drove out to the area where the abandoned gas station is, close to where the cement strip is located, and that he was shocked to see no police in the area and no police tape blocking people from entering an area where he believes the concrete strip should be.

"Cars and trucks keep streaming in out here. It's a nice day and some people are out here shooting and fishing, but others are just looking around," he said.

"There were about five other people in the immediate area of where the cement strip is located," he said.

PickieChickie
03-21-2010, 08:39 PM
[quote]

So they did eventually impound it. This sounds like a major screw up. I sure hope they are going to get this guy. With forensics back and nothing happening, I am starting to wonder.

What we need to realize is this:

Even though the West Valley City Police and the Salt Lake County District Attorney may have enough circumstantial evidence, it is always risky to prosecute when there is NO body because there is absolutely NO proof Susan Cox Powell is dead!

Once Josh is tried for the murder of Susan Powell, he cannot be tried again if he is found to be innocent.

Therefore, it is extremely important that the prosecutor wait until Susan's body is found before proceeding to take the matter before a grand jury in order to obtain an indictment against Josh Powell for murder.

If we think about it, there are very few cases where people have been tried for murder when there is no body and when this has been done, several years at least have passed since the person disappeared and the circumstantial evidence which has pointed to a particular person as the responsible party was accumulated and analyzed.

We can expect at least two years to pass before Josh is indicted for murder if Susan's body is not found.

izehnder
03-21-2010, 08:39 PM
Searching for Susan Cox Powell: Precious time lost, Part 1 (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Searching-for-Susan-Cox-Powell-Precious-time-lost-Part-1) (Slideshow) (4-part article; link to all four parts in Part 1)

humwhatsup
03-22-2010, 12:04 AM
New to WS because of a recent hometown murder,,, this is addicting , many sad, and one happy ending. Just got on to check this thread out... can someone catch me up on the opinions of their family, friends, neighbors, or co-workers on the status of the marriage/relationship.
Also the age of the boys? TIA Finally, they are going to check the slab it sounds like, well good since no one wants the sniff end of the stick..That was funny stuff..

Bobbisangel
03-22-2010, 12:55 AM
Is the snow all melted everywhere in Utah? If so, I would think someone would find Susan's body. There is no way he could have dug a grave so he must have just covered her real well with snow or hidden her somehow.

I wish someone would go remove that cement and dig and see what it is covering...if anything. Talk about lazy cops!!!

Melanie
03-22-2010, 01:18 AM
Sorry I haven't read the entire thread, but the picture sure looks like a body covered in cement. He wouldn't even have to dig a shallow grave -- just pour cement over here in an isolated area. I sure wish someone would go out there and start chipping away if LE isn't going to do it!

Mel

PickieChickie
03-22-2010, 01:19 AM
New to WS because of a recent hometown murder,,, this is addicting , many sad, and one happy ending. Just got on to check this thread out... can someone catch me up on the opinions of their family, friends, neighbors, or co-workers on the status of the marriage/relationship.
Also the age of the boys? TIA Finally, they are going to check the slab it sounds like, well good since no one wants the sniff end of the stick..That was funny stuff..

Welcome to Websleuths! In the beginning, people who knew Josh were in denial big time and were supportive of him, at least they pretended to be when they were interviewed by the media, something which infuriated thousands of people who could see what they apparently could not or refused to believe.

Tim Peterson, a friend of the Powells and a fellow ward member, an LDS term for a group of LDS members who live within a particular area and of which there are many, was the first to speak out, much to the utter dismay of the Cox family and friends of Susan Powell. Tim Peterson revealed a lot of what the family and friends were trying to hide from the public which was that Susan's marriage was in trouble, that Josh was a control freak who treated Susan so poorly that Tim Peterson suggested Susan divorce Josh. Tim Peterson reported that Susan, who had confided in him many times about her marriage problems, refused to discuss her marital issues with him any further after he suggested she divorce Josh.

The next people to speak out against Josh were Tim and Rachel Marini, friends of Susan Powell who are administrators for the Friends and Family of Susan Powell Facebook group. This was also very upsetting to the Cox family and friends as they were trying to keep everything about Susan's marriage to Josh a big secret and lead everyone to believe there were no problems. Why they did that is beyond me because it did more damage than good to the case.

It wasn't long before the Cox Family held a press conference and expressed their concern that Josh wasn't cooperating with law enforcement. The Cox family and friends of Susan Powell continued in their line of behavior by not sharing with the public that Josh was indeed an abusive, controlling husband who forced Susan to ride a bicycle to work 14 miles round trip while he had full use of the family van, made her grow her own fruits and vegetables "if she wanted her family to eat healthy foods", wouldn't let her use the van when she wanted and kept the only set of keys in his control, changed the password on their checking account so she couldn't use the debit card, etc.

Finally, the Cox family got sick of waiting for Josh to speak to the police and held a second press conference during which they revealed some of the abusive acts Josh was doing to Susan, some of which I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

The boys are 3 and 5 but were 2 and 4 on December 6, 2009.

Now there is not one supporter of Josh amidst the friends and family of Susan Powell or the Cox family that I know of. The only Josh Powell fan appears to be Wayne Hamberg who has loudly proclaimed that he does not believe Josh Powell is responsible for Susan's disappearance.

If you go to YouTube, type Susan Powell into a search then click on "More options" to sort the videos by upload date. You should also search for Josh Powell because there are a few videos, in fact some of the most important ones, which don't come up in a Susan Powell search. You'd want to watch the videos that were uploaded first if you want to follow the case from the very beginning.

PickieChickie
03-22-2010, 01:26 AM
Sorry I haven't read the entire thread, but the picture sure looks like a body covered in cement. He wouldn't even have to dig a shallow grave -- just pour cement over here in an isolated area. I sure wish someone would go out there and start chipping away if LE isn't going to do it!

Mel

I just can't see him burying/covering her there where there is so much activity, unless he didn't realize how close he was to an area which was reported in a recent article as being "busy" with people all around.

Melanie
03-22-2010, 03:19 AM
I just can't see him burying/covering her there where there is so much activity, unless he didn't realize how close he was to an area which was reported in a recent article as being "busy" with people all around.

True -- but if it was under the cover of darkness, he may have been disoriented -- or thought if it was so obvious, no one would bother. Who knows what this guy is thinking, but he sure is acting guilty (IMHO). In a way, I do hope it's Susan so the family can have some closure.

Best,

Mel

Curious Me
03-22-2010, 03:54 AM
Oh my, that mound sure looks spooky. Check it out now. Let's get on it LE! Don't leave any stone unturned. It really seems too long this waiting. I pray they find Susan soon.

IMO, it looks like a huge amount of cement for Josh to have pulled it off. However, it does look hastily mixed and poured, and such a haunting shape, out there in the middle of nowhere. Weird find.

HollyHawk
03-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Detectives will be moving this cement today, turning it upside down to see if anything is inside or under it. I think Isabelle (examiner.com) is going to be calling the Tooele County Sheriff's Dept this afternoon for a disposition and will have an update out.

To clear up some confusion, since I was the one who found this, the cement cannot be seen from the road. It is back far enough to not be noticed plus it is hidden behind a levy. The site has a lot of debris from being a torn down abandoned truck stop/gas station, restaurant, home and barn in the 60's, so this cement doesn't even look out of place amongst the debris. However if you really look at it you can see what could be the outline of a head, shoulders, arms and elbows protruding symmetrically on both sides, as if the wrists are tied together. If this outline is correct, the hips, on second check, appear a little too narrow to be Susan and I would guestimate they are less than a circumference of 32", however the body could be laying on it's side.
It sounds to me like this is more than likely a cement run, or someone dumping the end of their load of cement from a truck using a spout, but because of the shape I strongly feel it should be checked out.

I initially reported this to WVPD who apparently completely ignored it, so a week later I reported it to the Tooele Co. Sheriff's Dept since it is in their jurisdiction. Whoever checks their email apparently did not feel from looking at the photos that it should be checked and never had a deputy dispatched. After a month of waiting a month I returned to the scene to see if it had been moved or checked. It did not appear to have been checked. While working with Isabelle on another story we discussed items I'd found and she decided to run this story. If she hadn't I don't think there would have been any response by law enforcement at all, so I'm very glad Isabelle has been so proactive, with many calls to law enforcement and giving them the opportunity to respond to things we are criticizing. As reported Cpt McLachlan's response to not checking this out was "we can't check everything, it would be like a dog and pony show" and "that would be counter-productive". Tooele County Sheriff's Dept, however, has been extremely conscientious about this (with the exception of whoever ignored my email). Sending a deputy out alone, having me meet him the next day to confirm location, photographing scene, keeping us away from it, and referring to the detective unit who will be responding today. They have been very professional and unlike my previous contact with WVPD, not at all condescending.

DomCasual
03-22-2010, 01:33 PM
Welcome to Websleuths! In the beginning, people who knew Josh were in denial big time and were supportive of him, at least they pretended to be when they were interviewed by the media, something which infuriated thousands of people who could see what they apparently could not or refused to believe.

Tim Peterson, a friend of the Powells and a fellow ward member, an LDS term for a group of LDS members who live within a particular area and of which there are many, was the first to speak out, much to the utter dismay of the Cox family and friends of Susan Powell. Tim Peterson revealed a lot of what the family and friends were trying to hide from the public which was that Susan's marriage was in trouble, that Josh was a control freak who treated Susan so poorly that Tim Peterson suggested Susan divorce Josh. Tim Peterson reported that Susan, who had confided in him many times about her marriage problems, refused to discuss her marital issues with him any further after he suggested she divorce Josh.

The next people to speak out against Josh were Tim and Rachel Marini, friends of Susan Powell who are administrators for the Friends and Family of Susan Powell Facebook group. This was also very upsetting to the Cox family and friends as they were trying to keep everything about Susan's marriage to Josh a big secret and lead everyone to believe there were no problems. Why they did that is beyond me because it did more damage than good to the case.

It wasn't long before the Cox Family held a press conference and expressed their concern that Josh wasn't cooperating with law enforcement. The Cox family and friends of Susan Powell continued in their line of behavior by not sharing with the public that Josh was indeed an abusive, controlling husband who forced Susan to ride a bicycle to work 14 miles round trip while he had full use of the family van, made her grow her own fruits and vegetables "if she wanted her family to eat healthy foods", wouldn't let her use the van when she wanted and kept the only set of keys in his control, changed the password on their checking account so she couldn't use the debit card, etc.

Finally, the Cox family got sick of waiting for Josh to speak to the police and held a second press conference during which they revealed some of the abusive acts Josh was doing to Susan, some of which I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

The boys are 3 and 5 but were 2 and 4 on December 6, 2009.

Now there is not one supporter of Josh amidst the friends and family of Susan Powell or the Cox family that I know of. The only Josh Powell fan appears to be Wayne Hamberg who has loudly proclaimed that he does not believe Josh Powell is responsible for Susan's disappearance.

If you go to YouTube, type Susan Powell into a search then click on "More options" to sort the videos by upload date. You should also search for Josh Powell because there are a few videos, in fact some of the most important ones, which don't come up in a Susan Powell search. You'd want to watch the videos that were uploaded first if you want to follow the case from the very beginning.

A decent summary. I'll just add this: "Josh is guilty as sin, and either really mentally ill, or really bad at lying. He is, in fact, really bad at talking. Josh's Dad is a world-renowned singer and songwriter. You might not have heard of him, because he unilaterally and secretively decided to use a pseudonym. Um, what am I missing? Josh makes a really wicked website - he has mad skills. And, let's see, the Powells are such a close family that they've all decided to live as adults in their parents' house. The exception is that Graves woman. She's a Mormon rebel."

I think that's about covers it.

PickieChickie
03-22-2010, 01:36 PM
A decent summary. I'll just add this: "Josh is guilty as sin, and either really mentally ill, or really bad at lying. He is, in fact, really bad at talking. Josh's Dad is a world-renowned singer and songwriter. You might not have heard of him, because he unilaterally and secretively decided to use a pseudonym. Um, what am I missing? Josh makes a really wicked website - he has mad skills. And, let's see, the Powells are such a close family that they've all decided to live as adults in their parents' house. The exception is that Graves woman. She's a Mormon rebel."

I think that's about covers it.

Lol at Josh Powell's father is a "world renowned singer". If he is, it's because he's the worst singer on the Internet with a "fancy web site"! Check him out: http://stevechantrey.com Make sure to click on the little media player!

The Graves woman is Jennifer Graves and she is Josh Powell's sister. Good for her for speaking up.

Here is a link to Josh Powell's web site. (Yes, we know he owns the domain, even though main stream media has failed to discover this fact. 1.) He told Kirsii Hellewell, Susan's friend, he owned it; 2.) A Websleuth's member used a reverse IP search tool and brought up the name of the owner: http://susanpowell.org

GrandmaTo4
03-22-2010, 01:36 PM
<<snip>>

While working with Isabelle on another story we discussed items I'd found and she decided to run this story. If she hadn't I don't think there would have been any response by law enforcement at all, so I'm very glad Isabelle has been so proactive, with many calls to law enforcement and giving them the opportunity to respond to things we are criticizing. As reported Cpt McLachlan's response to not checking this out was "we can't check everything, it would be like a dog and pony show" and "that would be counter-productive". Tooele County Sheriff's Dept, however, has been extremely conscientious about this (with the exception of whoever ignored my email). Sending a deputy out alone, having me meet him the next day to confirm location, photographing scene, keeping us away from it, and referring to the detective unit who will be responding today. They have been very professional and unlike my previous contact with WVPD, not at all condescending.

(bbm)

WVCPD must not mind being considered arrogant, donut gobbling elitists rather than responsive, intelligent lawmen/women. I hope they like poultry because they might be soon eating a big plate of crow. IMO, they've already racked up a bunch of inexcusable blunders which should mandate humble pie in their daily diet. :mad:

Hats off to both you and Isabelle at examiner.com! It looks like it will take the actions and constant outcry from concerned citizens like you and Isabelle before Joshua will be incarcerated and Charlie and Braden will be removed from their hellhole and placed in a stable, loving home.

Thank you from all of us! _ And thanks too, to Tooele County Sheriff's Dept. _ :clap:

DomCasual
03-22-2010, 01:38 PM
Ooh! Ooh! And one more thing. Many people think of Josh when they get up a midnight snack. It's his face that is holding up tens of thousands of kids' school projects in the greater Salt Lake City area. Helping fund the Josh Powell for fridge magnet (not to be confused with chick magnet) campaign are the attorneys at Rulon T Burton and Associates in Murray, UT.

DomCasual
03-22-2010, 01:39 PM
Lol at Josh Powell's father is a "world renowned singer". If he is, it's because he's the worst singer on the Internet with a "fancy web site"! Check him out: http://stevechantrey.com Make sure to click on the little media player!

The Graves woman is Jennifer Graves and she is Josh Powell's sister. Good for her for speaking up.

I say good for her, too. I just enjoyed the irony of her being a Mormon rebel. It's two terms you just don't see together very often.

Curious Me
03-22-2010, 03:51 PM
Any word on the cement mound examination by LE yet?

grayjay
03-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Ooh! Ooh! And one more thing. Many people think of Josh when they get up a midnight snack. It's his face that is holding up tens of thousands of kids' school projects in the greater Salt Lake City area. Helping fund the Josh Powell for fridge magnet (not to be confused with chick magnet) campaign are the attorneys at Rulon T Burton and Associates in Murray, UT.
Love your last couple of posts, Dom, and since there's no "ROFL" button next to the "Thanks" button, I had to post. Cheers! I was just starting to get that creepy sick feeling from reading the other stuff, and about the condescending attitude HollyHawk commented on.

snupy
03-22-2010, 04:34 PM
Ooh! Ooh! And one more thing. Many people think of Josh when they get up a midnight snack. It's his face that is holding up tens of thousands of kids' school projects in the greater Salt Lake City area. Helping fund the Josh Powell for fridge magnet (not to be confused with chick magnet) campaign are the attorneys at Rulon T Burton and Associates in Murray, UT.

Here is the famous magnet.. I am not sure how to bring the picture over.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/slcrawler/index.php?p=9432&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

DomCasual
03-22-2010, 05:14 PM
Here is the famous magnet.. I am not sure how to bring the picture over.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/slcrawler/index.php?p=9432&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Just think, for about $120K, you could make that wise business decision, too!

It's really a pity poor Susan was not able to get clear of that imbecile. She deserves to have experienced how fulfilling life could have been with a partner that is - well, not Josh.

I'll tell you what. I personally believe in a loving Heavenly Father who is as fair as he is loving. I believe Susan will be okay and with her beautiful boys in the eternities. Josh? Not so much.

PickieChickie
03-22-2010, 05:25 PM
http://blogs.sltrib.com/b2evolution/media/blogs/slcrawler/powellmag.jpg

How to insert an image from the Internet: Go to the web page where the photo is located, click on on it to make sure it is as large as possible, right click on the image, select "copy image link" from the resulting drop down menu, return to Websleuths, click on the "center" icon if you want the image centered, click on the "Insert image" icon (located beneath the left arrow), paste the url in, preview your post then click "Submit" if everything went well. (You can insert as many images as you desire by repeating the process.)

Rooster27
03-22-2010, 07:04 PM
hello all,

i have been, what you call, lurking for a long time on this unusual case. Bear with my newness, and have patience with me. I was, as I assume everyone was, curious about the police tying in the missing Steven Koecher with Susan Powell with a remark that made the news regarding a trip thru "Tooele... that Josh made in his rental car?" I saw that brought up awhile back, but not sure if it surfaced again recently on this or a more recent thread.


"Originally Posted by AlexisFresca
Missing 30-year old Steven Koecher; police consider Josh Powell's use of rental car possible link
March 1, 2010 - Steven Koecher, an upstanding citizen who served others, who had no criminal or drug-related history, and who seemed happy with his life in St. George, suddenly vanished Dec. 13, 2009 - just six days after Susan Powell disappeared.

Is there a connection between the two cases? It's far-fetched, Steven's family says, but it's worth investigating.

Steven's mother, Deanne Koecher, said the reason they were interested is Susan Powell's case and investigating the possibility the two cases were connected was because of a road trip through Tooele that Josh Powell, Susan's husband, took at around the time Steven disappeared.

Police in Henderson and St. George are not ruling anything out and consider a possible link between the two cases. They are, in particular, interested in the trip Josh Powell took in a rental car.

She said, "It seems far but we welcome any information sharing."
http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d1-Missing-30year-old-Steven-Koecher-police-consider-link-consider-Josh-Powells-use-of-rental-car

I know most people believe the association far fetched, but with this new discovery of this cement pouring, i looked at the area. And something did strike me about the names of nearby towns along highway #80. I remember these names from this post:

http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/hone/koecher-html

I hope the link works. It didn't have an http in front of it initially. If it doesn't, just search the words Steven Koecher and timeline and it will be the first link.

Steven Koecher took a very long trip which, as you can see if you read it, up to Salt Lake City, then going west to two towns to the west of where this pouring was found. Remember this was way upstate from where Steven Koecher lived. This trip, that has been documented by receipts and other recollections by people who knew him, happened on December 9th and 10th.

And after this trip he went back down south to "disappear" two or three days later.

Friends who spoke to him regularly, said that he didn't answer his phone or respond to messages on these days. I hope I am not missing something when I say that no one has an explanation of why he went to those locations.

Again, i thought the whole thing odd when it came up a month ago, or more now? It seemed so out of the realm. But so many things were odd about it. That it was reported that the Cox family denied calling in this inquiry regarding the possible link, but Police said they did. Also in the timeline of Steven, it said that it has varied between the 8th and 9th, but supposedly a family of a brief acquaintance of Steven, got a surprise visit from him, at their ranch... He was not expected and had no reason to visit, finding the family home but his acquaintance, (i believe timeline saying, he may have met once,) not even there? He told the family he had gone to Sacramento, but he didn't, ...at least he couldn't have, following the receipt and ping trail that took him east and back down to St George. If you look at this timeline it is scary. He travelled like nine hundred miles in 24 hours, because, on the 10th, according to the timeline, he travelled back down, to St George.

I don't know. I'm a total amateur and I apologize for it in advance, but i can see why there are those who are considering a possible link. You're all better than i am for speculating on what the link could be. It was reported that he helped two children who were locked out of their house the next day but no one that knew him saw him after this trip. A couple of people spoke to him, his mom, but he did not mention the trip. And then he was gone.

If you look at a map of Utah and Nevada, check out Salt Lake City, West Valley, Tooele, Skull Valley Road, West Wendover, and Ruby Valley. And Sacramento.... for that matter because if you go west long enough, on that Highway#80, guess where you end up? And he did mention it. Could be a random thought, or an alibi?

Again, could be and probably is totally unrelated but the dates and the location and the cement all coincide as if they are part of the same thing, or at least could be. I have been conjecturing on how he could be tied in, but i do not want to post something that would hurt anyone....theorizing a long shot. They are both still missing, but so are a lot of people. And it's very sad.

any thoughts, or am I way out here?

Did anyone ever verify that Josh Powell did go "thru" Tooele?

If either family is reading this, i mean no disrespect. I am on the East Coast and i am hoping there is resolve in this case for both families, as it must be horrendous and lonely to wait.

PickieChickie
03-22-2010, 07:16 PM
hello all,

i have been, what you call, lurking for a long time on this unusual case. Bear with my newness, and have patience with me. I was, as I assume everyone was, curious about the police tying in the missing Steven Koecher with Susan Powell with a remark that made the news regarding a trip thru "Tooele... that Josh made in his rental car?" I saw that brought up awhile back, but not sure if it surfaced again recently on this or a more recent thread.



I know most people believe the association far fetched, but with this new discovery of this cement pouring, i looked at the area. And something did strike me about the names of nearby towns along highway #80. I remember these names from this post:

http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/hone/koecher-html

I hope the link works. It didn't have an http in front of it initially. If it doesn't, just search the words Steven Koecher and timeline and it will be the first link.

Steven Koecher took a very long trip which, as you can see if you read it, up to Salt Lake City, then going west to two towns to the west of where this pouring was found. Remember this was way upstate from where Steven Koecher lived. This trip, that has been documented by receipts and other recollections by people who knew him, happened on December 9th and 10th.

And after this trip he went back down south to "disappear" two or three days later.

Friends who spoke to him regularly, said that he didn't answer his phone or respond to messages on these days. I hope I am not missing something when I say that no one has an explanation of why he went to those locations.

Again, i thought the whole thing odd when it came up a month ago, or more now? It seemed so out of the realm. But so many things were odd about it. That it was reported that the Cox family denied calling in this inquiry regarding the possible link, but Police said they did. Also in the timeline of Steven, it said that it has varied between the 8th and 9th, but supposedly a family of a brief acquaintance of Steven, got a surprise visit from him, at their ranch... He was not expected and had no reason to visit, finding the family home but his acquaintance, (i believe timeline saying, he may have met once,) not even there? He told the family he had gone to Sacramento, but he didn't, ...at least he couldn't have, following the receipt and ping trail that took him east and back down to St George. If you look at this timeline it is scary. He travelled like nine hundred miles in 24 hours, because, on the 10th, according to the timeline, he travelled back down, to St George.

I don't know. I'm a total amateur and I apologize for it in advance, but i can see why there are those who are considering a possible link. You're all better than i am for speculating on what the link could be. It was reported that he helped two children who were locked out of their house the next day but no one that knew him saw him after this trip. A couple of people spoke to him, his mom, but he did not mention the trip. And then he was gone.

If you look at a map of Utah and Nevada, check out Salt Lake City, West Valley, Tooele, Skull Valley Road, West Wendover, and Ruby Valley. And Sacramento.... for that matter because if you go west long enough, on that Highway#80, guess where you end up? And he did mention it. Could be a random thought, or an alibi?

Again, could be and probably is totally unrelated but the dates and the location and the cement all coincide as if they are part of the same thing, or at least could be. I have been conjecturing on how he could be tied in, but i do not want to post something that would hurt anyone....theorizing a long shot. They are both still missing, but so are a lot of people. And it's very sad.

any thoughts, or am I way out here?

Did anyone ever verify that Josh Powell did go "thru" Tooele?

If either family is reading this, i mean no disrespect. I am on the East Coast and i am hoping there is resolve in this case for both families, as it must be horrendous and lonely to wait.

I have to agree it's very odd that two adults, a MALE and FEMALE, approximately the same age, disappeared around the same time. I find it a bit suspicious that Josh Powell rented the car around the time Steve disappeared.

The only thing I could conclude would be, and this is very far fetched, that Susan and Steve knew each other, that Josh met Steve in the rental car then disposed of him as well.

I haven't been following Steve's case closely enough to even know if the dates correspond with each other. Surely the police would know.

It's interesting how information about receipts has been released in his case but not in the Susan Powell case (as far as where Josh made purchases during the hours between 5:00 PM on Sunday, December 6, 2009 and 5:30 PM Monday, December 7, 2009.)

One would think the West Valley City Police Department would have held a press conference asking anyone who saw Josh Powell during the above mentioned dates and times to come forward with information.

Wouldn't it be astounding if we were to learn Josh Powell killed both Steve and Susan because he discovered they were having an online affair and had agreed to meet up?

Curious Me
03-22-2010, 07:54 PM
How to insert an image from the Internet: Go to the web page where the photo is located, click on on it to make sure it is as large as possible, right click on the image, select "copy image link" from the resulting drop down menu, return to Websleuths, click on the "center" icon if you want the image centered, click on the "Insert image" icon (located beneath the left arrow), paste the url in, preview your post then click "Submit" if everything went well. (You can insert as many images as you desire by repeating the process.)

:sonar:
How to insert images from internet to WS - Thank YOU PickieChickie.:Banane45:

laytonian
03-22-2010, 08:49 PM
Any word on the cement mound examination by LE yet?

Am I the only person who see weeds growing THROUGH that lump of cement?

http://www.abc4.com/media/lib/5/4/4/0/4403677c-84e5-4002-914e-48f59c59ceb3/Original.jpg

I really respect all the hard word that Ms Osbourne has put into this case, searching when no one else would ... and I realize anything's possible.

But nothing's grown out there since Susan disappeared. The cement would have been poured on top of those weeds, wouldn't it?

laytonian
03-22-2010, 09:02 PM
Wouldn't it be astounding if we were to learn Josh Powell killed both Steve and Susan because he discovered they were having an online affair and had agreed to meet up?

Lots of us would love to see these cases wrapped up, with the families getting the answers they deserve. Unfortunately, as hard as many of us SK sleuthers have worked to MAKE such a connection, it just doesn't work. We're as anxious as anyone to find a solution. Both of these cases involved large, loving families. And lots of people who, in our own special internet way, have made a connection.

As I crankily explained below, the dates are "off". JP would have had to travel to St George or Las Vegas, to "disappear Steve", because Steve was alive and well until noon PST, Dec 13th. After JP returned his rental car, his movements were pretty well known; how would he have snuck in a trip to Southern Utah?

Steven's computer has been forensically examined by LE. Sadly, nothing containing any such clue, was found. We all sure wish it had have!

He didn't even have an internet connection in his apartment, and had resorted to using the library computer a few times. LE even checked his library account.

He only called a few people, and they're all "known".

Many of us know some private things about Steven, from loving friends. Trust me when I say that Susan Powell would not left her children for Steven, and Steven would not have allowed himself to be "led astray" by someone who would abandon her children.

Yours in peace, and solutions!

Curious Me
03-22-2010, 09:04 PM
In looking for Susan, hopefully, more people will become aware of another missing person to look for, Stephen Koecher.

I'm just glad someone on here pointed out there is a missing man Steven Koecher that I had not heard about. He went missing December 13th, 2009. Prayers that Steven is found and prayers for his family. He looks like such a nice person.

grayjay
03-22-2010, 09:19 PM
LOL. I keep seeing things posted here that seem like they're written by somebody who's reading (or writing) steamy romance novels in their spare time. Usually I think of violence and anger more than hooking up when I'm thinking about criminal behaviors, but maybe that's just me.

imamaze
03-22-2010, 10:29 PM
Terms of Service
Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version
We have a detailed, formal Terms of Service (TOS) posted separately, and that TOS is what you will be held to as a member here. It's long and detailed because it has to be in the world we live in, and you are expected to read it, understand it and abide by it. However, we can sum it up as follows:
1) Be a decent human being;
(2) Treat your fellow posters as the decent human beings they are;
3) Keep in mind that whatever you post will likely live on forever, so think before you press "Submit Reply".
(4) It's a big world. People will disagree with you. You will disagree with them. This can be done with respect, and that's what we expect.

Attacking a fellow poster is against our Terms of Service, I put a link above to our Terms of Service, I suggest it be read. Knock of the attacks!!! I removed the posts against our TOS. Thank you.

laytonian
03-22-2010, 10:37 PM
It was with the mention of the cement, the names of the towns, and the rental car days and the driving thru Toole that got me going.


I'm sorry, the names of what towns? I've never seen the word "Tooele" ever associated with the Steven Koecher case.




I was talking about one 24 four hour period over two days. December 9th and 10th. That's it. Maybe I read the timeline wrong. Isn't that when you say he did the trip. Is this wrong? I was relating this one trip and the trip that Josh Powell took in the rental car on the same dates.


Those events can't have overlapped.

I admit I do not know exactly when JP rented the car. I really wish there were a detailed timeline on this case, but there isn't. Steven could not have started driving to Ruby Valley until late on Dec 9th or early on the 10th. Steven was performing sacred LDS temple rites in St George on the evening of Dec 9th - signed in, and seen by many people.

Those of us close to the case (including the family, which I'm not a part of...but do informally represent on WS) get our hair standing on end, when we have to explain why those "Susan and Steven" theories just don't work.

The sad thing about the "Susan and Steven" theories are that they harm both cases, by taking time away from looking at facts.

Neither Susan nor Steven deserve to be accused of being in an ilicit relationship.



You sound very upset, and as I said in my post, i did not want to offend anyone. I was only trying to help, I guess I'll go back to lurking. Why post?

I didn't mean to offend. I'm analytical, detail-oriented, and just hope that facts and details are important to everyone. I think WS's reputation lies in fact-based discussions.

I also believe we should all challenge each other's scenarios. They can't all be right. Aren't we here to help, and whittle things down to the BEST possible scenario, based on the facts.

Yours in peace and solutions!

KeenEyes
03-22-2010, 11:52 PM
http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Words/Welcome_Signs/glitering_sign.gif Rooster27

PickieChickie
03-23-2010, 01:32 AM
I'm sorry, the names of what towns? I've never seen the word "Tooele" ever associated with the Steven Koecher case.

"Steven's mother, Deanne Koecher, said the reason they were interested is Susan Powell's case and investigating the possibility the two cases were connected was because of a road trip through Tooele that Josh Powell, Susan's husband, took at around the time Steven disappeared."
http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d1-Missing-30year-old-Steven-Koecher-police-consider-link-consider-Josh-Powells-use-of-rental-car

gwenabob
03-23-2010, 02:06 AM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see that ridiculous refrigerator magnet. He claims to have "experience," yet the photo of him looks like something straight off the sophomore page of the high school yearbook! What on God's green earth made him think that $90,000 magnet would help him sell houses????

Probably some of that debt was also for yellow pages advertising. Probably took out a big ol' quarter page ad with his silly grinning toothy mug on it. I bet he signed a contract without Susan's knowledge. Those yellow page ads are really expensive and you have to pay every single month. And they don't fool around when it comes to collecting their money. They're cousins with the mob. I bet he signed the contract with his own blood and didn't tell Susan until it was too late. Poor, poor, Susan. If my husband had done something so foolish as that, it would be his body they'd be looking for out in the desert!!

crocus
03-23-2010, 02:32 AM
IMO - it's really a stretch to me to try and connect Steven Koetcher's case with Susan Powell. Perhaps Steven's family felt this was a way to keep his name in the public eye by commenting on the possible likelihood? I can understand that, but really, it's highly unlikely given the facts in both cases.

PickieChickie
03-23-2010, 02:48 AM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see that ridiculous refrigerator magnet. He claims to have "experience," yet the photo of him looks like something straight off the sophomore page of the high school yearbook! What on God's green earth made him think that $90,000 magnet would help him sell houses????

Probably some of that debt was also for yellow pages advertising. Probably took out a big ol' quarter page ad with his silly grinning toothy mug on it. I bet he signed a contract without Susan's knowledge. Those yellow page ads are really expensive and you have to pay every single month. And they don't fool around when it comes to collecting their money. They're cousins with the mob. I bet he signed the contract with his own blood and didn't tell Susan until it was too late. Poor, poor, Susan. If my husband had done something so foolish as that, it would be his body they'd be looking for out in the desert!!


Ahahaha! Lolololol!

Here are some juicy quotes from his http://joshpowellrealtor.com web site which is now only available at the Way Back Machine Internet Archive site. Brace yourself! Lol!


About Josh - and I ain't joshing! These are cut and pastes!

"With over twelve years of diverse experience and education in the real estate industry, Josh Powell is an industry leader."

"One thing about it – Josh has enthusiasm and tenacity in spades. He is a rare breed who goes beyond to provide value."
My comment: Otherwise known as an odd duck! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif

"Integrity, honesty, decency – these are givens as far as Josh is concerned. And being a family man himself, Josh knows how important it is to have a healthy, comfortable environment for your family."

My comment: And he'll be happy to drive you around to the various properties while his wife rides her bicycle to work 14 miles round trip!

"Josh’s caring approach to real estate has earned him a reputation as the most widely known and trusted Salt Lake City Utah Realtor®."

My comment: What a bunch of bull! The guy only sold two or three houses, according to his brother-in-law, Kirk Graves, who is married to Josh's sister Jennifer.

SOURCE: http://web.archive.org/web/20061101184809/www.joshpowellrealtor.com/about/AboutJoshPowell.aspx

HollyHawk
03-23-2010, 02:49 AM
Update:
The Tooele County Sheriff's Dept did not make it out to lift the concrete today because they had reports of bones buried elsewhere in the west desert and discovered 3 dogs in their graves. They are hoping for tomorrow. This is a small department with a huge area to cover and I know they are doing the best they can. I'll be back with updates . . . if I can find my way back here. Does anyone know why Susan Powell is not in the "Missing Persons" section, but in the "Missing Persons/Recovered" section when she has not been recovered? I don't think I'll ever figure my way around this site. If I could, it would be my #1 choice. :o\

Linda

HollyHawk
03-23-2010, 02:51 AM
That is Tooele County for you. Open abandoned mines, open wells, you name it. At least they are trying to cover the mines with dangerous drops down the shaft.
Linda

HollyHawk
03-23-2010, 02:54 AM
The West Valley Police Dept apparently has no interest in checking this. It would take them a whole 30 minutes to get out here to check. I asked the LE in this jurisdiction if WVPD had contacted them to come out and check and they have not. Upon questioning Cpt Lachlan with WVPD he doesn't know about the tip (photos and map sent) or who is handling it. Doubt they will ever check on it.
Linda

HollyHawk
03-23-2010, 03:06 AM
Am I the only person who see weeds growing THROUGH that lump of cement?

http://www.abc4.com/media/lib/5/4/4/0/4403677c-84e5-4002-914e-48f59c59ceb3/Original.jpg

I really respect all the hard word that Ms Osbourne has put into this case, searching when no one else would ... and I realize anything's possible.

But nothing's grown out there since Susan disappeared. The cement would have been poured on top of those weeds, wouldn't it?

No, you are the second person who saw that. I don't believe any of the weeds have roots in the cement. There are very strong winds out there that blow a lot of tumbleweed and other weeds around. I didn't see anyting rooted in the cement, but there are weeds that had grown in the surrounding dirt and I believe some just loose uprooted plants or plant parts on top or around it.
Linda

PickieChickie
03-23-2010, 03:08 AM
Update:
The Tooele County Sheriff's Dept did not make it out to lift the concrete today because they had reports of bones buried elsewhere in the west desert and discovered 3 dogs in their graves. They are hoping for tomorrow. This is a small department with a huge area to cover and I know they are doing the best they can. I'll be back with updates . . . if I can find my way back here. Does anyone know why Susan Powell is not in the "Missing Persons" section, but in the "Missing Persons/Recovered" section when she has not been recovered? I don't think I'll ever figure my way around this site. If I could, it would be my #1 choice. :o\

Linda

Conduct a search of the site for Susan Powell, click on each result then click on "Thread tools" and subscribe to each thread. That way you'll get an update each time someone comments on the thread.

You may have to post more before the search is available to you.

Constantly checking this site by using the Susan Powell search will also allow you to see when new threads are started.

You can always post questions after you've commented on a particular thread and someone will answer them for you.

If you can't use the search engine, you can conduct an advanced Google search using the "Return results from this site only" where you will type websleuths.com

While you are in the process of subscribing to the various threads, add each one to a book mark, taking the time to type the appropriate label which you can then use to quickly find whatever thread it is you are looking for if you want to review the posts.

I don't delete the e-mails but keep them in my inbox then access the threads that way when I want to post something and there hasn't been a recent post for me to respond to.

GrandmaTo4
03-23-2010, 03:10 AM
IMO - it's really a stretch to me to try and connect Steven Koetcher's case with Susan Powell. Perhaps Steven's family felt this was a way to keep his name in the public eye by commenting on the possible likelihood? I can understand that, but really, it's highly unlikely given the facts in both cases.

(bbm)

Absolutely! Especially since the only time Josh was missing from West Valley City was from 12:30 AM to 6:00 PM on the 7th of December -- and for 24 hours in the rental car, from the 9th to the 10th of December.

Steven Koetcher didn't disappear from Henderson, Nevada until December 13th.

Bartleby
03-23-2010, 03:39 AM
Ahahaha! Lolololol!

Here are some juicy quotes from his http://joshpowellrealtor.com web site which is now only available at the Way Back Machine Internet Archive site. Brace yourself! Lol!


About Josh - and I ain't joshing! These are cut and pastes!

"With over twelve years of diverse experience and education in the real estate industry, Josh Powell is an industry leader."

"One thing about it – Josh has enthusiasm and tenacity in spades. He is a rare breed who goes beyond to provide value."
My comment: Otherwise known as an odd duck! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif

"Integrity, honesty, decency – these are givens as far as Josh is concerned. And being a family man himself, Josh knows how important it is to have a healthy, comfortable environment for your family."

My comment: And he'll be happy to drive you around to the various properties while his wife rides her bicycle to work 14 miles round trip!

"Josh’s caring approach to real estate has earned him a reputation as the most widely known and trusted Salt Lake City Utah Realtor®."
My comment: What a bunch of bull! The guy only sold two or three houses, according to his brother-in-law, Kirk Graves, who is married to Josh's sister Jennifer.

SOURCE: http://web.archive.org/web/20061101184809/www.joshpowellrealtor.com/about/AboutJoshPowell.aspx

I totally agree, no way could Josh have 12 years of experience in real estate when he had his magnets made up. As you say, we know from first hand accounts that he only sold a couple of houses in his time. No way was he an industry leader. It's a very bad idea to outright lie about your knowledge and experience of a job, but that seems to be Josh's modus operandi. His self-boosting about his web expertise is similarly misleading, yet transparently so.

The picture on the magnet, arms folded, self-satisfied grin, just says "smug" to me. I never met Josh and I'm glad I didn't, he seems like a nasty twisting manipulating person, prepared to lie and lie to forward his own interests.

Oh, tenacity in spades? The guy who couldn't even finish his own basement?

:waitasec:

PickieChickie
03-23-2010, 03:53 AM
I totally agree, no way could Josh have 12 years of experience in real estate when he had his magnets made up. As you say, we know from first hand accounts that he only sold a couple of houses in his time. No way was he an industry leader. It's a very bad idea to outright lie about your knowledge and experience of a job, but that seems to be Josh's modus operandi. His self-boosting about his web expertise is similarly misleading, yet transparently so.

The picture on the magnet, arms folded, self-satisfied grin, just says "smug" to me. I never met Josh and I'm glad I didn't, he seems like a nasty twisting manipulating person, prepared to lie and lie to forward his own interests.

Oh, tenacity in spades? The guy who couldn't even finish his own basement?

:waitasec:

I am so frustrated! I read on his web site where it said something to the effect, "You probably know Josh Powell because he delivered 100,000 refrigerator magnets and you probably have one on your refrigerator."

Now I can't find it for the life of me! Maybe tomorrow when I'm fresh! It appears someone else composed the content on this web site. Or, Josh Powell copied other web sites. We know how his writing skills aren't that advanced or we would have seen him putting them to work on his father's web site: http://stevechantrey.org and the http://susanpowell.org site.

Reading his realtor web site is certainly misleading! He makes it sound like he's the best realtor in the entire state of Utah!

hollyblue
03-23-2010, 04:50 AM
I'd just like to state that I am also a sleuther of SK, as well as SP, and I do believe there is a connection.

There has not been much of anything released to the public in his case by LE, as is lately in Susan's case.

All I will say is there is a discrepancy in Steven's case. His mother stated at the PC that Steven was in Ruby Valley/N. Utah on the 9th. There was a post on his FB page in FEB stating he was in St. George for a temple ward night on the Dec 9th. This was confirmed by "others" within the next weeks in Feb.---not by LE. The ward temple night was never mentioned in the PC given by her parents---not LE. There has been many incidents of "misinformation" in his case.

One thing is certain--he drove MANY miles the week tween Susan's disappearance and his; especially, the dates of the 8-10th.---in the same area Josh said he did.

I don't know why this scenario brings up so much heated objection----but it's one of the reasons I pursued it. TOO much resistance. It's like stepping on a rusty nail everytime it is approached.

Why dismiss any theory unless you can....and I don't believe anyone has -- other than just a gut feeling or an entitled opinion. I don't think LE has--or I've never heard them say so.

GrandmaTo4
03-23-2010, 10:33 AM
I'd just like to state that I am also a sleuther of SK, as well as SP, and I do believe there is a connection.

There has not been much of anything released to the public in his case by LE, as is lately in Susan's case.

All I will say is there is a discrepancy in Steven's case. His mother stated at the PC that Steven was in Ruby Valley/N. Utah on the 9th. There was a post on his FB page in FEB stating he was in St. George for a temple ward night on the Dec 9th. This was confirmed by "others" within the next weeks in Feb.---not by LE. The ward temple night was never mentioned in the PC given by her parents---not LE. There has been many incidents of "misinformation" in his case.

One thing is certain--he drove MANY miles the week tween Susan's disappearance and his; especially, the dates of the 8-10th.---in the same area Josh said he did.

I don't know why this scenario brings up so much heated objection----but it's one of the reasons I pursued it. TOO much resistance. It's like stepping on a rusty nail everytime it is approached.

Why dismiss any theory unless you can....and I don't believe anyone has -- other than just a gut feeling or an entitled opinion. I don't think LE has--or I've never heard them say so.

(blue-bbm)
How do you think they're connected, Hollyblue?

Are Susan and Steven connected or are Josh and Steven connected? _ :confused:

GrandmaTo4
03-23-2010, 11:33 AM
I am so frustrated! I read on his web site where it said something to the effect, "You probably know Josh Powell because he delivered 100,000 refrigerator magnets and you probably have one on your refrigerator."

Now I can't find it for the life of me! Maybe tomorrow when I'm fresh! It appears someone else composed the content on this web site. Or, Josh Powell copied other web sites. We know how his writing skills aren't that advanced or we would have seen him putting them to work on his father's web site: http://stevechantrey.org and the http://susanpowell.org site.

Reading his realtor web site is certainly misleading! He makes it sound like he's the best realtor in the entire state of Utah!

I remember reading it too.

Could this be it, Pickie?

It's from a google search.
The top blue link doesn't work; but if you paste the green URL in the wayback machine it goes to Josh's archive but the archive won't go to Josh's old website even though several dates seem to be available

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. :waitasec:


Salt Lake City Real Estate, South Jordan & Draper to West Valley ...
Josh Powell brings more qualified buyers to your sale. ... used the DexMedia Salt Lake phone book to deliver refrigerator magnets to over 550000 families. ...
www.joshpowellrealtor.com/sellers/HomeSellerSampleMarketing.aspx

Bartleby
03-23-2010, 11:46 AM
I'd just like to state that I am also a sleuther of SK, as well as SP, and I do believe there is a connection.

There has not been much of anything released to the public in his case by LE, as is lately in Susan's case.

All I will say is there is a discrepancy in Steven's case. His mother stated at the PC that Steven was in Ruby Valley/N. Utah on the 9th. There was a post on his FB page in FEB stating he was in St. George for a temple ward night on the Dec 9th. This was confirmed by "others" within the next weeks in Feb.---not by LE. The ward temple night was never mentioned in the PC given by her parents---not LE. There has been many incidents of "misinformation" in his case.

One thing is certain--he drove MANY miles the week tween Susan's disappearance and his; especially, the dates of the 8-10th.---in the same area Josh said he did.

I don't know why this scenario brings up so much heated objection----but it's one of the reasons I pursued it. TOO much resistance. It's like stepping on a rusty nail everytime it is approached.

Why dismiss any theory unless you can....and I don't believe anyone has -- other than just a gut feeling or an entitled opinion. I don't think LE has--or I've never heard them say so.

Could you explain what your scenario (which relates Steven's known movements to Josh) actually is?

is it (scenario 1):

1) Josh kills Susan and disposes of her body somewhere
2) Steven and Josh communicate (did they know each other before?) and Steven offers to rehide the body
3) Steven drives up to WVC area, gets detailed directions from Josh on where the body is (possibly travelling there with Josh)
4) Steven moves the body so Josh can truthfully say he doesn't know where she is
5) Steven reports back to Josh for his reward, and Josh then murders him

or (scenario 2)

1) Josh kills Susan and disposes of her body somewhere
2) Steven hears about the case, drives up to WVC area, does some searching on his own and finds Susan's body
3) Steven confronts Josh, and Josh murders him

or could you present a more likely scenario that ties them together during that period?

I get that SK travelled many hundred miles in the days following Susan's disappearance, into the SLC and WVC area, and that he communicated with people who knew him during this time, and that he then drove back down to Henderson Nevada and disappeared.

I don't see how this is connected to Josh and his known movements and behaviour during that time.





Regarding weeds in the cement slab - I see weeds groing around the cement, overhanging and overshadowing the cement, but I can't see any weeds growing on or through the cement. Hopefully today LE will get the slab properly investigated and we'll have a clear answer on whether there's a body or anything else suspicious about the slab.

RubyRed
03-23-2010, 12:52 PM
The only similarities in these two cases are, they were both LDS and from Utah. Other than that I do not see any connection. Steven's case has been in the shadows of the SP case from the start.

RayO
03-23-2010, 06:55 PM
I have to agree it's very odd that two adults, a MALE and FEMALE, approximately the same age, disappeared around the same time. I find it a bit suspicious that Josh Powell rented the car around the time Steve disappeared.


Wouldn't it be astounding if we were to learn Josh Powell killed both Steve and Susan because he discovered they were having an online affair and had agreed to meet up?

Lifetime Network script version: Josh killed Susan so he could be with Steve, and Steve offed himself after he realized what happened and heard Josh was coming in the rental car to meet him.

grayjay
03-23-2010, 07:14 PM
Lifetime Network script version: Josh killed Susan so he could be with Steve, and Steve offed himself after he realized what happened and heard Josh was coming in the rental car to meet him.
:drac: Steve was wanting a no-strings arrangement and he walked away when he found out he'd be expected to ride his bicycle to work -and- drop off the boys at daycare.

passionflower
03-23-2010, 07:25 PM
do we know if LE uncovered the concrete yet?
also Mr. Cox went to the camp area to look around.
Is the concrete in or by the camp? TIA

snupy
03-23-2010, 10:26 PM
I'd just like to state that I am also a sleuther of SK, as well as SP, and I do believe there is a connection.

There has not been much of anything released to the public in his case by LE, as is lately in Susan's case.

All I will say is there is a discrepancy in Steven's case. His mother stated at the PC that Steven was in Ruby Valley/N. Utah on the 9th. There was a post on his FB page in FEB stating he was in St. George for a temple ward night on the Dec 9th. This was confirmed by "others" within the next weeks in Feb.---not by LE. The ward temple night was never mentioned in the PC given by her parents---not LE. There has been many incidents of "misinformation" in his case.

One thing is certain--he drove MANY miles the week tween Susan's disappearance and his; especially, the dates of the 8-10th.---in the same area Josh said he did.

I don't know why this scenario brings up so much heated objection----but it's one of the reasons I pursued it. TOO much resistance. It's like stepping on a rusty nail everytime it is approached.

Why dismiss any theory unless you can....and I don't believe anyone has -- other than just a gut feeling or an entitled opinion. I don't think LE has--or I've never heard them say so.


I always wondered if that was brought up to cause speculation that they may have run off together.

hollyblue
03-24-2010, 12:16 AM
(blue-bbm)
How do you think they're connected, Hollyblue?

Are Susan and Steven connected or are Josh and Steven connected? _ :confused:

I'm not sure....still diggin into a few things. But LE in either case are not talking (and you know they have MORE than what has come out)-- and now the Trib is suddenly quite. Plus now the much requested "Search for Susan" is hitting reverb.......when the wheel gets in motion? Sounds like they want things to sort of quietly, slowly get muted. ????

I want to think the connection would be between Susan and Steven and not Josh. God forbid if that tall talker/manipulator got a hold of Steven. Many people describe Steven as being "naive"....so I pray their paths did not cross under some "scheme" of Josh's or his father.

I will venture to say if there is a connection between SP & SK, then there are other people aware of it....and just not talking. Some of SP's friends think she is still alive....and have said so since the beginning; but no actual theory have we heard.....why?

Maybe some are offended of the thought that Susan 'may' have had an interest in someone else. But my heavens, look at what she had....I think I would have been atleast checking things out from a side glance....WHAT positive contribution did Josh bring to that 10 year get together, besides Charlie and Braden? She was in the process of getting things resolved...Can anyone truly judge this mother for wanting better for her children than a sperm donor?

OT-- I've never received an answer from one of her friends if the state cop in Id (in forensics) is a brother or relative of Pop Powell. Besides body bulk, the facial features are remarkably almost identical.

hollyblue
03-24-2010, 12:29 AM
IMO - it's really a stretch to me to try and connect Steven Koetcher's case with Susan Powell. Perhaps Steven's family felt this was a way to keep his name in the public eye by commenting on the possible likelihood? I can understand that, but really, it's highly unlikely given the facts in both cases.

What facts make it unlikely?

hollyblue
03-24-2010, 12:53 AM
The only similarities in these two cases are, they were both LDS and from Utah. Other than that I do not see any connection. Steven's case has been in the shadows of the SP case from the start.

I'll add they both had lived in WVC at one time, both disappeared within a week of each other, the one no longer living in WVC was back in the immediate area of SLC a few days after Susan's disappearance and tho he had talked to a person in Ruby Valley for a brief visit and luncheon, he did not tell anyone about the trip...even tho he spoke to relatives during that time and did not visit relatives or other friends in that time. No one knows 'why' he made that trip. Spending lots of money on gas...and lots of time....for someone sooooo broke they could not pay their rent for 3 mos. And no one has come forward to explain his income or other expenses in that time. Not much info coming forward. I watch and listen to all the input, but pay full attention to what LE has output.

HollyHawk
03-24-2010, 02:53 AM
Not sure if this is posting in the right order as when I press "Last" for the last page it moves completely out of this thread.

Anyway, Tooele County Sheriff's detectives checked the concrete Tuesday, tipping it upside down to find that it is all concrete. No body inside. So, good news. Just a strip of concrete apparently left by a cement truck driver who didn't want to pay for disposal of the end of his load.

The Tooele County Sheriff's Dept did a great job taking care of this in a thorough manner, let us know when they had to postpone looking at it due to other details, and advised of the disposition. They were really nice to deal with. . . unlike the West Valley Police Dept who did not even respond. It makes you wonder how many other tips they have simply deleted.

dovebar
03-24-2010, 04:30 AM
I'll add they both had lived in WVC at one time, both disappeared within a week of each other, the one no longer living in WVC was back in the immediate area of SLC a few days after Susan's disappearance and tho he had talked to a person in Ruby Valley for a brief visit and luncheon, he did not tell anyone about the trip...even tho he spoke to relatives during that time and did not visit relatives or other friends in that time. No one knows 'why' he made that trip. Spending lots of money on gas...and lots of time....for someone sooooo broke they could not pay their rent for 3 mos. And no one has come forward to explain his income or other expenses in that time. Not much info coming forward. I watch and listen to all the input, but pay full attention to what LE has output.

Another possibility is that Steven saw something he wasn't supposed to see when his path crossed with Josh's accidentally out in the Nevada desert.

Just before he disappeared, he helped two young women who were locked out of their home and he gave out his name and phone number. Is there a possibility that he crossed paths with Josh at a rest stop or by the side of the road and gave out his name? Could someone then have lured him to Vegas and disappeared him?

Do we know, for instance, where Josh's father was that entire week after Susan went missing? A lot of planning seems to have gone into Susan's disappearance. We don't know that there wasn't help. There might have been helping mopping things up.

I also agree that it is probably coincidental that both these people went missing in one week. It may also be coincidental that Josh and Steven were possibly in the same area of Nevada on the same day.

Bartleby
03-24-2010, 12:36 PM
Another possibility is that Steven saw something he wasn't supposed to see when his path crossed with Josh's accidentally out in the Nevada desert.

Just before he disappeared, he helped two young women who were locked out of their home and he gave out his name and phone number. Is there a possibility that he crossed paths with Josh at a rest stop or by the side of the road and gave out his name? Could someone then have lured him to Vegas and disappeared him?

Do we know, for instance, where Josh's father was that entire week after Susan went missing? A lot of planning seems to have gone into Susan's disappearance. We don't know that there wasn't help. There might have been helping mopping things up.

I also agree that it is probably coincidental that both these people went missing in one week. It may also be coincidental that Josh and Steven were possibly in the same area of Nevada on the same day.

Interesting you should say that. I'm still convinced that no planning went into it at all, Josh killed Susan in a fit of temper during a late night argument, and then panicked and invented the midnight camping trip to give an excuse to drive out into the wilderness in the dark and dispose of the body.

The argument might have been over Josh's desire to take Susan's boys out into a snowstorm when they were snugly tucked up in bed, and he should have been going to bed prior to starting a new week's work. Josh seems to have no ability to face his responsibilities if they interfere with "being Josh".

The greatest pointer to the total lack of planning is his BS story, and the fact he was totally caught with his pants down when he got back from his jaunt to find LE all over Susan's house.


Second bolded point, what report or information have you seen that puts Josh in Nevada when Steven disappeared (apparently by parking his car and walking away, recorded on video)?

Josh was under intense police, public and press scrutiny at this time, so I can't envisage him slipping away unnoticed to drive several hundred miles a second time (first time in the rental car a few days earlier) to meet with Steven and possibly kill him and dispose of his body.

grayjay
03-24-2010, 12:55 PM
The greatest pointer to the total lack of planning is his BS story, and the fact he was totally caught with his pants down when he got back from his jaunt to find LE all over Susan's house.

I think he rehearsed it in his mind even if he didn't plan it.

After the story about the Christmas party the year before turning up in the news, I'm even more convinced something about that turned into a big flare-up. Somebody was sleeping on the couch but that wasn't OK.

slowbutsteady
03-24-2010, 01:33 PM
"March 23, 2010 - Just as a group of volunteers are coordinating the first large volunteer-driven ground search effort for Susan Cox Powell, the 28-year old mom who's been missing for over three months, we learn that Josh Powell was talking about how one could dispose of a body in a mine shaft just a year before she went missing"

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d23-As-search-efforts-continue-for-Susan-Cox-Powell-we-learn-Josh-discusses-how-to-dispose-of-a-body?

I wonder if there are any mine shafts in the Utah desert??

sdshelt
03-24-2010, 02:09 PM
Thanks for that post - very interesting.

That Josh really skeeves me out. I hope Susan gets found for her friends and family, but I also want that creep locked away and getting what he deserves.

Bartleby
03-24-2010, 04:09 PM
Not sure if this is posting in the right order as when I press "Last" for the last page it moves completely out of this thread.

Anyway, Tooele County Sheriff's detectives checked the concrete Tuesday, tipping it upside down to find that it is all concrete. No body inside. So, good news. Just a strip of concrete apparently left by a cement truck driver who didn't want to pay for disposal of the end of his load.

The Tooele County Sheriff's Dept did a great job taking care of this in a thorough manner, let us know when they had to postpone looking at it due to other details, and advised of the disposition. They were really nice to deal with. . . unlike the West Valley Police Dept who did not even respond. It makes you wonder how many other tips they have simply deleted.


I'm disappointed this lead didn't work out, but I'm really glad Tooele County are following up all leads, unlike WVC. The lump was too suspicious to ignore.

hollyblue
03-24-2010, 05:42 PM
Another possibility is that Steven saw something he wasn't supposed to see when his path crossed with Josh's accidentally out in the Nevada desert.

Just before he disappeared, he helped two young women who were locked out of their home and he gave out his name and phone number. Is there a possibility that he crossed paths with Josh at a rest stop or by the side of the road and gave out his name? Could someone then have lured him to Vegas and disappeared him?

Do we know, for instance, where Josh's father was that entire week after Susan went missing? A lot of planning seems to have gone into Susan's disappearance. We don't know that there wasn't help. There might have been helping mopping things up.

I also agree that it is probably coincidental that both these people went missing in one week. It may also be coincidental that Josh and Steven were possibly in the same area of Nevada on the same day.

I would soooo like to know this info; plus the phone calls or texts between those two a week before and after. As much as he talked to is dad....I wish Susan's bird could retain and repeat what it heard! Dang.

dovebar
03-24-2010, 06:22 PM
I would soooo like to know this info; plus the phone calls or texts between those two a week before and after. As much as he talked to is dad....I wish Susan's bird could retain and repeat what it heard! Dang.

Bartleby, I didn't say there was documentation that Josh was in Nevada when Steven disappeared.

I said that Josh himself said he was in the west Utah desert, and later had a rental car out - driving who knows where - when Steven was in the area. They could have crossed paths then.

Depending on how closely Josh was being watched, which was probably closely, he probably couldn't have been in Vegas or Mesquite when Steven was. But someone else might have been able to, with information from Josh.
samaritan to him, as he was to the young women down South.

Also, just because the killer's plan wasn't a great one, doesn't mean they didn't have one. Criminals aren't known for their great brains, just for their egos in believing they will get away with things because they've gotten away with other things in the past.

Fairy1
03-25-2010, 12:42 AM
hello all,

i have been, what you call, lurking for a long time on this unusual case. Bear with my newness, and have patience with me. I was, as I assume everyone was, curious about the police tying in the missing Steven Koecher with Susan Powell with a remark that made the news regarding a trip thru "Tooele... that Josh made in his rental car?" I saw that brought up awhile back, but not sure if it surfaced again recently on this or a more recent thread.



I know most people believe the association far fetched, but with this new discovery of this cement pouring, i looked at the area. And something did strike me about the names of nearby towns along highway #80. I remember these names from this post:

http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/hone/koecher-html

I hope the link works. It didn't have an http in front of it initially. If it doesn't, just search the words Steven Koecher and timeline and it will be the first link.

Steven Koecher took a very long trip which, as you can see if you read it, up to Salt Lake City, then going west to two towns to the west of where this pouring was found. Remember this was way upstate from where Steven Koecher lived. This trip, that has been documented by receipts and other recollections by people who knew him, happened on December 9th and 10th.

And after this trip he went back down south to "disappear" two or three days later.

Friends who spoke to him regularly, said that he didn't answer his phone or respond to messages on these days. I hope I am not missing something when I say that no one has an explanation of why he went to those locations.

Again, i thought the whole thing odd when it came up a month ago, or more now? It seemed so out of the realm. But so many things were odd about it. That it was reported that the Cox family denied calling in this inquiry regarding the possible link, but Police said they did. Also in the timeline of Steven, it said that it has varied between the 8th and 9th, but supposedly a family of a brief acquaintance of Steven, got a surprise visit from him, at their ranch... He was not expected and had no reason to visit, finding the family home but his acquaintance, (i believe timeline saying, he may have met once,) not even there? He told the family he had gone to Sacramento, but he didn't, ...at least he couldn't have, following the receipt and ping trail that took him east and back down to St George. If you look at this timeline it is scary. He travelled like nine hundred miles in 24 hours, because, on the 10th, according to the timeline, he travelled back down, to St George.

I don't know. I'm a total amateur and I apologize for it in advance, but i can see why there are those who are considering a possible link. You're all better than i am for speculating on what the link could be. It was reported that he helped two children who were locked out of their house the next day but no one that knew him saw him after this trip. A couple of people spoke to him, his mom, but he did not mention the trip. And then he was gone.

If you look at a map of Utah and Nevada, check out Salt Lake City, West Valley, Tooele, Skull Valley Road, West Wendover, and Ruby Valley. And Sacramento.... for that matter because if you go west long enough, on that Highway#80, guess where you end up? And he did mention it. Could be a random thought, or an alibi?

Again, could be and probably is totally unrelated but the dates and the location and the cement all coincide as if they are part of the same thing, or at least could be. I have been conjecturing on how he could be tied in, but i do not want to post something that would hurt anyone....theorizing a long shot. They are both still missing, but so are a lot of people. And it's very sad.

any thoughts, or am I way out here?

Did anyone ever verify that Josh Powell did go "thru" Tooele?

If either family is reading this, i mean no disrespect. I am on the East Coast and i am hoping there is resolve in this case for both families, as it must be horrendous and lonely to wait.

Very interesting. Whatever happened to this poster?

hollyblue
03-25-2010, 06:08 AM
Very interesting. Whatever happened to this poster?

I think he went fishing somewhere else.

Bartleby
03-25-2010, 12:39 PM
Bartleby, I didn't say there was documentation that Josh was in Nevada when Steven disappeared.

I said that Josh himself said he was in the west Utah desert, and later had a rental car out - driving who knows where - when Steven was in the area. They could have crossed paths then.

Depending on how closely Josh was being watched, which was probably closely, he probably couldn't have been in Vegas or Mesquite when Steven was. But someone else might have been able to, with information from Josh.
samaritan to him, as he was to the young women down South.

Also, just because the killer's plan wasn't a great one, doesn't mean they didn't have one. Criminals aren't known for their great brains, just for their egos in believing they will get away with things because they've gotten away with other things in the past.

Susan and Steven could have both been abducted by aliens, but it's about as likely as two men who had never met before accidentally meeting in the vastness of the Western Desert, one driving off, the other realising he was spotted hiding a body, somehow tracking his witness down without immediately chasing him in the car, and then somehow arranging for a third party to "off" the witness several days later after he'd had time to go to the police with his information.

The only way I could see this happening is if Steven was trying to blackmail Josh (for which he doesn't actually need any real evidence or meeting with Josh), and Josh somehow arranged for someone to kill him at the rendezous.

Is there any evidence that Steven might resort to blackmail? Having read his case he seems like a nice guy having a hard time paying his bills, like a lot of people these days, but it would be a vast leap of logic to paint him as a potential blackmailer.


If people really think that Steven and Susan's disappearances are linked, I'd just like to see something more convincing than that they disappeared within a week and 283 miles of each other.

dovebar
03-25-2010, 04:37 PM
Where I live, people who are innocent witnesses to crimes are often tracked down, threatened or killed by perpetrators. This is a major deterrent to solving crimes. Which is why it might be floated as a possibility in this case.

YMMV. No one needs to meet some burden of proof to "convince" you or any other poster in order to mention a possibility on a public board. And they shouldn't have to be ridiculed by someone with their knickers in a twist. If you can't read other's thoughts without disparagement, take it elsewhere.

Fairy1
03-25-2010, 09:52 PM
I think he went fishing somewhere else.

Fishing - yes. But I was thinking more along the lines of planting.

Fairy1
03-25-2010, 10:05 PM
Where I live, people who are innocent witnesses to crimes are often tracked down, threatened or killed by perpetrators. This is a major deterrent to solving crimes. Which is why it might be floated as a possibility in this case.

YMMV. No one needs to meet some burden of proof to "convince" you or any other poster in order to mention a possibility on a public board. And they shouldn't have to be ridiculed by someone with their knickers in a twist. If you can't read other's thoughts without disparagement, take it elsewhere.

I don't believe Steven was a witness to anything. But you're absolutely right, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I believe the frustration when people attempt to connect Steven's and Susan's cases stems from the fact that Susan's case has received so much more national attention than Steven's. In addition, the attempt by a very few to connect the cases seems to be an effort to muddy the waters - in Josh's favor.

Next, someone will attempt to float the idea that Steven murdered Susan and then ran off to Mexico. :rolleyes:

grayjay
03-25-2010, 10:24 PM
Where I live, people who are innocent witnesses to crimes are often tracked down, threatened or killed by perpetrators. This is a major deterrent to solving crimes. Which is why it might be floated as a possibility in this case.

YMMV. No one needs to meet some burden of proof to "convince" you or any other poster in order to mention a possibility on a public board. And they shouldn't have to be ridiculed by someone with their knickers in a twist. If you can't read other's thoughts without disparagement, take it elsewhere.
:waitasec:

Would it make sense for those who want to discuss this, to have a separate thread for it? It does seem to have a component of distraction. I tend to think it's a red herring that muddies the waters myself, but I'm very open to a discussion where the links in these cases can be clarified.

I believe Bartleby was giving his opinion, and his remark about his own position doesn't rise to the level of knickers in a twist.

Fairy1
03-25-2010, 10:59 PM
:waitasec:

Would it make sense for those who want to discuss this, to have a separate thread for it? It does seem to have a component of distraction. I tend to think it's a red herring that muddies the waters myself, but I'm very open to a discussion where the links in these cases can be clarified.

I believe Bartleby was giving his opinion, and his remark about his own position doesn't rise to the level of knickers in a twist.

I think that's a great idea. I would be very interested to know everyone's thoughts on the subject.

laytonian
03-25-2010, 11:04 PM
Another possibility is that Steven saw something he wasn't supposed to see when his path crossed with Josh's accidentally out in the Nevada desert.


Josh was in the Nevada desert? Where and when?

How would JP know who to track down, and later "send missing" (a week later) in Southern Utah? Where was JP on Dec 13th? (I thought he was home in WVC, hiding out.)




Just before he disappeared, he helped two young women who were locked out of their home and he gave out his name and phone number.


I'm sorry, that's not how it happened.

It wasn't "two young women", it was two "juveniles" (little kids). All Steven did, was call their mother. He did not give out his name and phone number.

No one knew who Steven was, until about ten days later, when LE started checking his phone records and checking to see who he'd called on his cellphone.

The details of that are in all of the early stories about his disappearance.

laytonian
03-25-2010, 11:14 PM
Bartleby, I didn't say there was documentation that Josh was in Nevada when Steven disappeared.

I said that Josh himself said he was in the west Utah desert, and later had a rental car out - driving who knows where - when Steven was in the area. They could have crossed paths then.

But Steven wasn't in the "west Utah desert", dovebar. He drove on I-80, far north of the west desert.

Josh told LE he went to the "Pony Express area".

There's a little (OK, really really BIG) problem that would keep someone from "crossing paths" -- military bombing and chemical testing areas. They clearly show on all the maps: Utah Test and Training Range, and Dugway Proving Grounds.

laytonian
03-25-2010, 11:17 PM
I always wondered if that was brought up to cause speculation that they may have run off together.

It's a great way to pollute a jury pool, isn't it?

PickieChickie
03-25-2010, 11:28 PM
:waitasec:

Would it make sense for those who want to discuss this, to have a separate thread for it? It does seem to have a component of distraction. I tend to think it's a red herring that muddies the waters myself, but I'm very open to a discussion where the links in these cases can be clarified.

I believe Bartleby was giving his opinion, and his remark about his own position doesn't rise to the level of knickers in a twist.


I posted a new thread. Since I'm not familiar with the Steve Koecher case, you who are who want to add the details, feel free:
3/25/2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab204/JoshPowellBankruptcy/susanjoshsteve.jpg

Bartleby
03-26-2010, 01:54 AM
Where I live, people who are innocent witnesses to crimes are often tracked down, threatened or killed by perpetrators. This is a major deterrent to solving crimes. Which is why it might be floated as a possibility in this case.

YMMV. No one needs to meet some burden of proof to "convince" you or any other poster in order to mention a possibility on a public board. And they shouldn't have to be ridiculed by someone with their knickers in a twist. If you can't read other's thoughts without disparagement, take it elsewhere.

The problem for me is there have to be two very unlikely events occurring here - first Steven witnesses Josh in the process of disposing of a body, and then Josh has to arrange for someone else to track Steven down and dispose of him. Also we have to assume Steven did not contact the Police in the days between witnessing the dipsosal and the time he vanished, or he'd have taken them straight to the disposal site and they wouldn't have wasted thousands of man hours searching.

If there are other theories please post a link to them, as I haven't been able to find them.

Like the WVP and St George Police departments, and Steven own father, I can't see a connection between the cases.

hollyblue
03-26-2010, 02:30 AM
I don't believe Steven was a witness to anything. But you're absolutely right, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I believe the frustration when people attempt to connect Steven's and Susan's cases stems from the fact that Susan's case has received so much more national attention than Steven's. In addition, the attempt by a very few to connect the cases seems to be an effort to muddy the waters - in Josh's favor.

Next, someone will attempt to float the idea that Steven murdered Susan and then ran off to Mexico. :rolleyes:

I am not in the habit of mudding waters in anyone's favor. I may be guilty of stirring the pot to get people to think?????? However, I want to get to the truth---ONLY-- and I was under the impression that's what we all want. I don't know if my theory is correct--like all of us---we'll have to wait and see what falls from the tree. Real facts that will make me say...nope, that's not it. But I have a possible theory I'm working on with the information that we have so far, and it works. Not wanting to share....obviously.
What 'given' info do we have that is or is not correct? You know it can't all be right/inclusive. The FACTS are very, very few right now.
Thanks Dovebar for reminding a few what the boards are all about...Love the analogy of twisted knickers. ;). Reminds me of a stuck thong!!!

GrandmaTo4
03-26-2010, 03:34 AM
Okay, and since these questions have been asked and answered at least three or four times, we're outta here. If you can't be polite enough to read carefully and dignify other's comments with courtesy, just responding endlessly with hair-splitting and argumentativeness, this is a time waster for anyone interested in finding either of these people. No wonder the families and friends won't give you any information.

Please feel free to return to wild speculation and "facts."

"I heard he was gay."
"I'm sure he ran off somewhere."
"He's probably on a cruise!"
"Did you know he misspelled his mother's name!"

(bbm)

Gee dovebar, I must me missing a whole lot. I didn't see anyone being impolite -- or wildly speculating about:

"I heard he was gay."
"I'm sure he ran off somewhere."
"He's probably on a cruise!"
"Did you know he misspelled his mother's name!"

RayO's statement re: Steven and Josh was SPECIFICALLY STATED as a "Lifetime Network script version" -- which was obviously written in jest -- and was sarcastically poking fun at the "Lifetime Network" NOT Steven Koecher.

*Hair-splittling arguments* are pretty darn necessary if one has any hope of finding the truth.

Proven timelines - plus locations separated by approximately 300 miles are not very conducive for realistic, contrary theories with ZERO corroborating evidence.

With the facts, as known today, many of us agree with Bartleby:



Like the WVP and St George Police departments, and Steven own father, I can't see a connection between the cases.


In my opinion, laytonian is most sympathetic to BOTH missing person cases -- and said it by far the BEST:


The sad thing about the "Susan and Steven" theories are that they harm both cases, by taking time away from looking at facts.

Neither Susan nor Steven deserve to be accused of being in an illicit relationship.

I'm sure I can speak for ALL Websleuthers when I say we ALL desperately want both Susan and Steven found -- and also want whoever may have harmed them prosecuted to the full extent of the law!

hollyblue
03-26-2010, 04:55 AM
IMO, that's not necessarly true OR ridiculous, hollyblue.

Did you follow the first Phil Spector trial? :banghead:

Josh Powell is not Phil Spector. The defense would have to show evidence and not just speculation....for any jury with common sense to let this get in the way. With today's technology, it should be simple to show a connection if there was one.

hollyblue
03-26-2010, 05:37 AM
(bbm)

Gee dovebar, I must me missing a whole lot. I didn't see anyone being impolite -- or wildly speculating about:

"I heard he was gay."
"I'm sure he ran off somewhere."
"He's probably on a cruise!"
"Did you know he misspelled his mother's name!"

RayO's statement re: Steven and Josh was SPECIFICALLY STATED as a "Lifetime Network script version" -- which was obviously written in jest -- and was sarcastically poking fun at the "Lifetime Network" NOT Steven Koecher.

*Hair-splittling arguments* are pretty darn necessary if one has any hope of finding the truth.

Proven timelines - plus locations separated by approximately 300 miles are not very conducive for realistic, contrary theories with ZERO corroborating evidence.

With the facts, as known today, many of us agree with Bartleby:



In my opinion, laytonian is most sympathetic to BOTH missing person cases -- and said it by far the BEST:
I'm sure I can speak for ALL Websleuthers when I say we ALL desperately want both Susan and Steven found -- and also want whoever may have harmed them prosecuted to the full extent of the law!


I snipped these 'comments' from stories The Trib had on Steven Koecher---

Maybe we should practice what we preach, ey? And yes, I would say there is a 'frustration' with less media coverage and interest in Steve's case. Sad.

laytonian: 1/9/2010 2:37:00 PM

crimsondove:
Never rule out anything.


laytonian: 2/26/2010 6:03:00 PM

This, to me, is a much more compelling case than others which have had much more publicity.

Certainly, someone knows something:

Proven timelines ----Really? Proof=Conjecture??? It is a fine timeline, but not proven.

TallCoolOne
03-26-2010, 08:40 AM
I'll add they both had lived in WVC at one time, both disappeared within a week of each other, the one no longer living in WVC was back in the immediate area of SLC a few days after Susan's disappearance and tho he had talked to a person in Ruby Valley for a brief visit and luncheon, he did not tell anyone about the trip...even tho he spoke to relatives during that time and did not visit relatives or other friends in that time. No one knows 'why' he made that trip. Spending lots of money on gas...and lots of time....for someone sooooo broke they could not pay their rent for 3 mos. And no one has come forward to explain his income or other expenses in that time. Not much info coming forward. I watch and listen to all the input, but pay full attention to what LE has output.While that's a well and fine, it doesn't help explain the wet spot drying with fans, the sudden move by Josh after her disappearance, his total lack of cooperation in the entire matter, his sudden need to rent a car and disappear for a whole day, and some other things. I really hate to see rumors get started. You have to remember, many people go missing in just a 24 hour period. Until I see something that actually connects these two missing people I am going to consider this just rumor and speculation.

grayjay
03-26-2010, 09:20 AM
I am not in the habit of mudding waters in anyone's favor. I may be guilty of stirring the pot to get people to think?????? However, I want to get to the truth---ONLY-- and I was under the impression that's what we all want. I don't know if my theory is correct--like all of us---we'll have to wait and see what falls from the tree. Real facts that will make me say...nope, that's not it. But I have a possible theory I'm working on with the information that we have so far, and it works. Not wanting to share....obviously.
What 'given' info do we have that is or is not correct? You know it can't all be right/inclusive. The FACTS are very, very few right now.
Thanks Dovebar for reminding a few what the boards are all about...Love the analogy of twisted knickers. ;). Reminds me of a stuck thong!!!
When the cement shape was found, it was supported and debated around all sorts of possibilities on this list. I'm sure that just a single plausible fact can get people thinking and sleuthing and conjuring more relationships.

I'm hoping you'll share your work at some point and then your idea can be more fully explored by those who have missed what you have found. I can't wait to hear, in fact. In the meantime, I can't make it work even if I wish it could break both cases wide open and find both missing people.

TechWriter797
03-26-2010, 06:21 PM
... his sudden need to rent a car and disappear for a whole day, and some other things...

Do we know why he rented a vehicle? Was his van impounded?

PickieChickie
03-26-2010, 06:25 PM
Do we know why he rented a vehicle? Was his van impounded?

Yes, his van was impounded three days after Susan disappeared. Josh left the two boys with his sister, Jennifer Graves, then disappeared for 24 hours during which time, according to the WVC police department, drove several hundred miles.

Nobody knows why he rented the car or where he went. When he returned, he was reported by Tim Peterson, a fellow ward member and friend of the Powell's, to have "the worst case of wind burned hands" Peterson had ever seen and that Josh kept putting lotion on them.

DomCasual
03-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Yes, his van was impounded three days after Susan disappeared. Josh left the two boys with his sister, Jennifer Graves, then disappeared for 24 hours during which time, according to the WVC police department, drove several hundred miles.

Nobody knows why he rented the car or where he went. When he returned, he was reported by Tim Peterson, a fellow ward member and friend of the Powell's, to have "the worst case of wind burned hands" Peterson had ever seen and that Josh kept putting lotion on them.

If I'm not mistaken, you have the timing on this mixed up. Didn't Peterson say he noticed that after he had picked up Josh from the police station, before he would have actually rented the car?

PickieChickie
03-26-2010, 07:18 PM
If I'm not mistaken, you have the timing on this mixed up. Didn't Peterson say he noticed that after he had picked up Josh from the police station, before he would have actually rented the car?

Searching for Susan Powell: Neighbor describes husband's odd behavior
Missing mom » Friend says man seemed indifferent to wife's disappearance.
By Sheena Mcfarland
The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 12/24/2009 09:08:38 AM MST

When Joshua Powell showed up at Tim Peterson's door with extremely wind-burned hands two days after his wife went missing, asking for a ride to the police station to get his van, he seemed "pretty unfazed."


CONTINUED AT SOURCE: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

hollyblue
03-26-2010, 08:38 PM
While that's a well and fine, it doesn't help explain the wet spot drying with fans, the sudden move by Josh after her disappearance, his total lack of cooperation in the entire matter, his sudden need to rent a car and disappear for a whole day, and some other things. I really hate to see rumors get started. You have to remember, many people go missing in just a 24 hour period. Until I see something that actually connects these two missing people I am going to consider this just rumor and speculation.

Your entitled. That's all we have to really go on now isn't it? Speculation....very few facts. So any theory would fall into that realm of thinking. Maybe it's just my being raised in a scientific environment---maybe I should change my sig to: Nothing is impossible.....only not probable.

To call it a rumor tells me more of how you rationalize information.

the·o·ry   /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/ Show Spelled[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ries.
1.a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
2.a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3.Mathematics. a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4.the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5.a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6.contemplation or speculation.
7.guess or conjecture


Wet spot- Could be a number of things. Vomit, pee, spilt milk, juice??

Josh moving- He did not have the finances to live there. I originally thought it was a good move for the children--put them closer to the Coxs', but the AH has worked his manipulations in that scenario too.

Lack of co-op- He's an AH with a strong control need... that has a smart lawyer. Like it or not, he still has control of the situation. He's in AH paradise.

Rent-a-car.- He didn't know how long he would be w/o one. Why he couldn't use someone else's vehicle is a ponder; but, I really don't think he used the rental to go back anywhere and finish the job. I don't think he was that stupid---and I'm sure the father would have advised otherwise. I know if my car is having work done and I don't have it available --I'm a mess...even for the normal hours it may not be here. What to do in an emergency?? Just me. Worrier.

I'm not a supporter of Josh...I think he and the father both have personality disorders that need psych repair and worry about the boy's emotional and mental health. Why DCS is not checking on them is beyond me.

laytonian
03-26-2010, 09:13 PM
Searching for Susan Powell: Neighbor describes husband's odd behavior
Missing mom » Friend says man seemed indifferent to wife's disappearance.
By Sheena Mcfarland
The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 12/24/2009 09:08:38 AM MST

When Joshua Powell showed up at Tim Peterson's door with extremely wind-burned hands two days after his wife went missing, asking for a ride to the police station to get his van, he seemed "pretty unfazed."


CONTINUED AT SOURCE: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

Here's the detail we need:
Larry King Transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0912/23/ijvm.01.html)

"MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jane, let`s talk about that evidence. I can confirm to you that five search warrants have been executed: three inside the Powell home, one for Josh Powell`s DNA. Also one for the family minivan.
I can also tell you that investigators at this time are working on a sixth warrant which will go towards that rental car. Police do tell me that he did drive for hundreds of miles, the Tuesday after Sunday went missing, that Sunday. That Tuesday evening Josh Powell was gone. They cannot account for his whereabouts. They have no clue where he went."

Extrapolating:
Sunday was Dec 6th, "Tuesday after Sunday" was Dec 8th, so the rental car was returned no later than sometime on the afternoon/evening of Dec 9th.

That matches the timeline in the article you posted, about JP needing Peterson to him to help pick up his minivan "two days after Susan was reporting missing" (which that article calculates as the 7th).

Thank you. Whether you calculate it as "three days" or "two days", both articles give us the same ending date for that rental car...even though it's not mentioned in the article you posted.

On the evening of Dec 9th, Steven Koecher was in St George, performing temple sealings in the LDS temple there.

hollyblue
03-26-2010, 09:40 PM
When the cement shape was found, it was supported and debated around all sorts of possibilities on this list. I'm sure that just a single plausible fact can get people thinking and sleuthing and conjuring more relationships.

I'm hoping you'll share your work at some point and then your idea can be more fully explored by those who have missed what you have found. I can't wait to hear, in fact. In the meantime, I can't make it work even if I wish it could break both cases wide open and find both missing people.

To share a theory that is not viewed seriously, but with ridicule is moot in my opinion. If it's proven wrong and either Susan or Steven is found....I'll share it. Until then, I will explore other "theories" and while doing so, try to find ways to disprove mine.

LE has more info than we do.

hollyblue
03-26-2010, 10:19 PM
Here's the detail we need:
Larry King Transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0912/23/ijvm.01.html)

"MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jane, let`s talk about that evidence. I can confirm to you that five search warrants have been executed: three inside the Powell home, one for Josh Powell`s DNA. Also one for the family minivan.
I can also tell you that investigators at this time are working on a sixth warrant which will go towards that rental car. Police do tell me that he did drive for hundreds of miles, the Tuesday after Sunday went missing, that Sunday. That Tuesday evening Josh Powell was gone. They cannot account for his whereabouts. They have no clue where he went."

Extrapolating:
Sunday was Dec 6th, "Tuesday after Sunday" was Dec 8th, so the rental car was returned no later than sometime on the afternoon/evening of Dec 9th.

That matches the timeline in the article you posted, about JP needing Peterson to him to help pick up his minivan "two days after Susan was reporting missing" (which that article calculates as the 7th).

Thank you. Whether you calculate it as "three days" or "two days", both articles give us the same ending date for that rental car...even though it's not mentioned in the article you posted.

On the evening of Dec 9th, Steven Koecher was in St George, performing temple sealings in the LDS temple there.

This is the last post re: SK I will make on this thread---everything should be moved there for other's to ponder.

Below is the link to the PC given by SK's parents. Beginning at the 8:15 mark, his mother states "He worked on Tues. Wed & Thurs. in central Nev/N. Utah. Friday in St. George". If this was bad info, don't you think LE being right there would correct her? or Mr. K? The news of the temple ward sealing had been discussed prior to this PC taking place and a close relative was aware of it...so how can this be explained? The mother had to have these facts from somewhere, no?

I do find it interesting that although they (parents) must have had SK's possessions sometime in Dec., the discovery of the passport was not made until late Feb. As was the mention of the temple ward sighting. Two months...after his disappearance. Possible...but hinky. If it were my child missing, I would have torn everything into bits ----looking with a fine tooth comb for anything and everything for a hint of the same in trying to find him.
But that's me.....JMO


http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/category.asp?C=28259&clipId=4578357&topVideoCatNo=undefined&autoStart=true

humwhatsup
03-28-2010, 01:05 AM
Where did everyone go on this thread??

PickieChickie
03-28-2010, 01:10 AM
Where did everyone go on this thread??

Since it was determined the cement slab was just a clean out pour from a cement truck, nobody is interested in discussing it anymore.

Click here then click on "Forum tools" and subscribe to the entire Susan Powell thread so every time someone posts in the Susan Powell category, you get notified with an e-mail. You can get one immediately, once a day or once a week I think. Here: Susan Powell - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Bartleby
03-28-2010, 01:11 AM
Where did everyone go on this thread??

Since the odd discovery has now been investigated by LE and is not covering a body, the thread is dying a natural death.

ProdigalSonReturns
05-31-2011, 07:27 AM
There is something funny going on out in Henderson Nevada. I'm telling you right now you aren't getting the truth.

grayjay
05-31-2011, 09:32 PM
There is something funny going on out in Henderson Nevada. I'm telling you right now you aren't getting the truth.

BBM (which means bold by me in the above post)

Got truth? I'd be one who'd love to hear it, but need something more than rumor and inuendo.

WS has a process for vetting locals and experts. You contact Tricia, owner of this site by clicking Contact Us at the bottom of the home page. You give her your information, and phone number, and then she decides if you have permission to share your information as an expert, family member, or tuned-in local.

Thanks. :rocker:

Fairy1
05-31-2011, 11:04 PM
There is something funny going on out in Henderson Nevada. I'm telling you right now you aren't getting the truth.

How does Henderson, NV figure into Susan Powell's case? :waitasec:

Does it have anything to do with "plants?"

ProdigalSonReturns
06-01-2011, 05:14 AM
How does Henderson, NV figure into Susan Powell's case? :waitasec:

Does it have anything to do with "plants?"

Pot farms. Dotting every inch of death valley from the peak to the river's mouth.....as far as the eye can see. Texas Ghost Rider used to rant about 'em.

Look up the 2008 case in the Nevada badlands for a sight that'll make your eyesockets pop.

believe09
06-01-2011, 09:45 AM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d18-Susan-Powell-Odd-discovery-in-West-Utah-Desert-What-is-worthy-of-police-investigation-Slideshow

March 18, 2010 - (Updated) Linda Osborne, who has been out in the desert for months trying to find clues into the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell, came across a cement strip last month the size of a body that she reported to police.

On February 16 Osborne was out searching in Utah's West Desert. She stumbled upon a concrete strip about 7' long and about 2.5' to 3' wide. One area of the strip was wider than the other, appearing it could be covering a body, the wider area possibly the size of a person's shoulders.

The area where Osborne located the cement strip is off of Hwy 80 near the Skull Valley Road off ramp, There is an old abandoned gas station at Rowley Junction. The cement strip is down a dirt road off of Skull Valley Road at Rowley Junction about 500 to 750 feet from the abandoned gas station.

"This piece of cement is not something that was left behind from the abandoned station. It was clearly poured in its current location," Osborne said.

Osborne has found many things while searching in the desert. She's found items such as one child's shoe with no matching shoe in the area, which she's found suspicious. She once found a plastic bag with what appeared to be trash, clothing, and two large jars of Vaseline. One jar was ˝ empty, the other almost empty. These types of findings are disturbing.

It is rare that Osborne reports such things to the police as the West Desert is, unfortunately, used as a dumping ground by many.

But, she believes this cement strip is suspicious and worthy of an investigation.

Osborne understands police don't have time to investigate everything, but believes the cement strip is something that should be looked into. In all the time she's been searching she's never seen anything like it.

On February 17 Osborne contacted the West Valley City Police via email to their investigative department through their website, providing information about her finding.

She did not hear back from the department for about a week. Then, she received an email from Kim Waeley of West Valley Police, requesting photos.

Osborne emailed two photos of the cement strip to Waely and has never heard back from West Valley City Police.

Examiner.com contacted West Valley City Police Department Capt. McLachlan late Thursday afternoon for comment. McLachlan said, "I passed the information along to investigators but I'm not sure who's handling it. We can't look here and there, it would be a dog and pony show. We can't check everything and report back to everyone, it would be counterproductive."

Osborne also contacted the Tooele County Sheriff's Department via email, providing them with a map, information about her findings, and photos. She never heard back from them either.

On March 16 Osborne returned to the site to see if investigators had removed the cement strip, or had thoroughly investigated it.

Osborne was surprised to find it had not been moved and that the only change she could see was one area where small pieces of cement were missing from one corner from the narrow end of the strip. The largest chip was about 5" by 4" in size, the others were quite small. It did not appear an extensive search was done on the cement.

Osborne told Examiner.com there are free-range cattle in the area and that on both February 16 and March 16 she saw horse hoof prints close to the cement strip.

She believes the missing pieces could be a result of horses or free-range cattle stepping on the cement strip, causing it to chip.

Osborne also mentioned there is a well about 5 feet from where the cement strip was seen that could have been used as a water source for mixing cement. The well is such that someone could jump into it to retrieve water, or that someone could use a bucket to retrieve water.

"We understand the understaffing of law enforcement agencies today, but volunteer services can do much to assist police," Osborne said. "Volunteers can handle much of the legwork. Search groups are willing to help at no cost to the City. This includes certified cadaver search dogs and scent-tracking search dogs. "

Search dogs in this case, Osborne said, would be of great value in determining if further investigation is warranted. However, they cannot be utilized without the direction of police.

"I have learned from volunteer search and rescue groups that they will not respond to citizens' or volunteer searchers' requests without being asked by the law enforcement agency handling the case," Osborne said.

"In the case of the cement strip, it seems logical to initially utilize a cadaver dog to see if it picks up a scent. If so, it would call for further investigation. However," Osborne continued, "because the search and rescue groups will not respond without police direction, searchers are dependent upon police for the use of cadaver dogs and other search tools."

Without the tools available to police, searchers are extremely limited. This is why it police involvement would be helpful to citizens wishing to assist in the search for Susan.

"I also researched mine exploration groups and relayed to police that they are available at no cost," Osborne said.

It is well known that Utah has hundreds of mines in desolate areas of the desert, some with shafts dropping 100-200 feet.

It has been said that if someone were to use these mine shafts to dispose of a body, the body would never be found. "This comment is what initiated my investigating the availability of cadaver dogs for searches."

Osborne said, "I would hope to receive confirmation from police that they plan to check it out or that they have checked out the cement strip."

It could be Susan, it could be someone else, or it could be nothing.

The question is, what is worthy of reporting to police? What will they take seriously? What will they investigate?

"I'm not the only one seeking answers - Susan's friends, family, and all those who have grown to know and love her want to know what happened to Susan?"

Please leave your comments below or email them isabelle.zehnder@comcast.net.

For more information about Susan's case, visit www.seattleheadlinesexaminer.com (http://www.seattleheadlinesexaminer.com) and click on "missing persons" link. For articles prior to Dec. 31, visit www.seattlefamilyexaminer.com (http://www.seattlefamilyexaminer.com) and click on "Susan Powell" link.

Susan Cox Powell, 28, was reported missing Dec. 7, 2009. The last person to see her was her husband, Joshua "Josh" Powell. Josh is the only person of interest in the case of his wife's disappearance. Shelby Gifford, spokeswoman for Susan's family, said police call this a missing person's case with suspicious criminal overtones.

Friends, family, the public at large, and police are frustrated at Josh's lack of cooperation with police. Josh is now living in Puyallup, Wash., about 900 miles from the home where he and his wife raised their two young sons.

Bumping the OP-let's keep the thread on the topic please...

Swamp Fox Trot
07-24-2014, 01:00 AM
Anyway, Tooele County Sheriff's detectives checked the concrete Tuesday, tipping it upside down to find that it is all concrete. No body inside. So, good news. Just a strip of concrete apparently left by a cement truck driver who didn't want to pay for disposal of the end of his load.

The Tooele County Sheriff's Dept did a great job taking care of this in a thorough manner, let us know when they had to postpone looking at it due to other details, and advised of the disposition. They were really nice to deal with. . . unlike the West Valley Police Dept who did not even respond. It makes you wonder how many other tips they have simply deleted.

How far did they check in the ground underneath the slab? This was an abandoned gas station and Josh apparently made a big deal about acquiring a blowtorch that could cut through 1/8" of steel. Did they check out the underground tanks?