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carbuff
03-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Not sure about this one -- the photo isn't really clear enough to see much. Marjo Winkens
Missing since September 2, 1975 from Limburgse Schimmert, Netherlands, doe 485DFNET

The thing that got me is, she doesn't really look alive in Alcala's photo...

Donjeta
03-23-2010, 09:20 AM
She looks like she's on drugs, IMO.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01701.jpg

Is this the same girl in different makeup? My brain keeps telling me no but I can't put my finger on any reason why.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=150&h=81http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg?w=150&h=85http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg?w=150&h=110http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01701.jpg?w=102&h=150

carbuff
03-23-2010, 01:27 PM
She looks like she's on drugs, IMO.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01701.jpg

Is this the same girl in different makeup? My brain keeps telling me no but I can't put my finger on any reason why.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=150&h=81http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg?w=150&h=85http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg?w=150&h=110http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01701.jpg?w=102&h=150

1, 2, and 3 look the same to me, partly because the background seems to be the same. I'm not sure about the last one, though. She looks darker than the girl in the helmet.

Drugged, possibly, or maybe strangled and revived? Pretty nasty, whichever it is.

HockeyGirl
03-23-2010, 02:53 PM
One more, I'm trying to see what is around her neck, kind of looks like a choker style necklace with a large heart on it.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/ShylohM/2011323384.jpg

smart blonde
03-23-2010, 02:57 PM
She looks like she's on drugs, IMO.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01701.jpg

Is this the same girl in different makeup? My brain keeps telling me no but I can't put my finger on any reason why.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=150&h=81http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg?w=150&h=85http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg?w=150&h=110http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01701.jpg?w=102&h=150
I believe the females in pics #1, #2, #3 are one in the same- a redhead. (She looks 'high' on drugs, to me).

I think the female in pic #4 is someone entirely different- a brunette.

Sleuthster
03-23-2010, 03:17 PM
There where actually a couple pic's that the girl didnt look alive to be honest. i cant find the other one now, but she was laying by a window on a couch I think.

Sleuthster
03-23-2010, 03:23 PM
This one, something about the eyes and she looks posed.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/CCParrott/kz3d18-kz3cyv0001.jpg

indiana
03-27-2010, 11:08 PM
One more, I'm trying to see what is around her neck, kind of looks like a choker style necklace with a large heart on it.


Can see more of it in this pic with her arms in air (original referenced photo beside it for comparison)

http://i44.tinypic.com/2cmq6hu.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/2n00zn8.jpg

Pink Panther
03-28-2010, 04:04 PM
This woman is wearing a very unique/unusual necklace. It can be seen most clearly in the third picture on Post #2 of this thread. Is there anyone that can blow this up and post it???

Donjeta
03-28-2010, 04:09 PM
Not sure about this one -- the photo isn't really clear enough to see much. Marjo Winkens
Missing since September 2, 1975 from Limburgse Schimmert, Netherlands, doe 485DFNET

The thing that got me is, she doesn't really look alive in Alcala's photo...

It seems to me like Marjo Winkens has a differently shaped face. UI girl has a narrower face.

Bargle
03-28-2010, 07:16 PM
This woman is wearing a very unique/unusual necklace. It can be seen most clearly in the third picture on Post #2 of this thread. Is there anyone that can blow this up and post it???

See if this helps. Click to enlarge.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1351/pagan3a.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/pagan3a.jpg/)

punklove
03-28-2010, 07:19 PM
This woman is wearing a very unique/unusual necklace. It can be seen most clearly in the third picture on Post #2 of this thread. Is there anyone that can blow this up and post it???

http://i44.tinypic.com/1hck6g.jpg

punklove
03-28-2010, 07:19 PM
See if this helps. Click to enlarge.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1351/pagan3a.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/pagan3a.jpg/)

Jinx!! :)

Does it appear to anyone else that she has a busted lip or some sort of lip injury?

http://i40.tinypic.com/2h64peb.jpg

Filly
03-28-2010, 08:44 PM
Jinx!! :)

Does it appear to anyone else that she has a busted lip or some sort of lip injury?

http://i40.tinypic.com/2h64peb.jpg

Yep. Just like our poor beloved fur coat girl.

I don't believe that's a necklace. I believe unfortunately that is what the sick monster strangled her with. I pray she was drugged. I pray!

I do believe in this one she has passed. There is no way in holy h*ll a person could contort their body like that. I had commented in the general thread she also appears to have a knee injury. A bruise starting on her foot as well. I would think he'd crack you in the knees, ankles, and feet so you couldn't try and run. This is all too sad. God Bless these girls and their families. I am so sorry.


http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg

Bargle
03-28-2010, 09:23 PM
I do believe in this one she has passed. There is no way in holy h*ll a person could contort their body like that.
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg
For clarity's sake, here's a small version of the pic.
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=300&h=175
Yes, they can contort their body like that. I thought the pose looked familiar and went looking for pics of ballet poses. I found this:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4910/balletposes1.jpg?w=378&h=354

The girl in the picture has her arms positioned differently, but I believe it's the same basic pose. I think the girl is very probably a trained dancer.

punklove
03-28-2010, 09:27 PM
For clarity's sake, here's a small version of the pic.
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=300&h=175
Yes, they can contort their body like that. I thought the pose looked familiar and went looking for pics of ballet poses. I found this:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4910/balletposes1.jpg?w=378&h=354

The girl in the picture has her arms positioned differently, but I belive it's the same basic pose. I think the girl is very probably a trained dancer.

Agreed. I also think it would be a very difficult thing to pose a dead body like that, how would her leg be held up? We can see the entire leg so we would see if something was holding it up. Just my 2 cents.

Filly
03-28-2010, 10:24 PM
For clarity's sake, here's a small version of the pic.
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=300&h=175
Yes, they can contort their body like that. I thought the pose looked familiar and went looking for pics of ballet poses. I found this:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4910/balletposes1.jpg?w=378&h=354

The girl in the picture has her arms positioned differently, but I believe it's the same basic pose. I think the girl is very probably a trained dancer.

Thank you.

You guys are right. I think the body would be too stiff to pose, right?

However I still don't see an entire leg. It kind of made it look as if her head were backward. That's just me though.

Maybe that will help us. A trained dancer. We can look for a trained dancer.

Sleuthster
03-28-2010, 10:35 PM
Very bizzare. The head is in the same position IMO in both pics. just different angles and the leg is up. I might add I also cannot see how a person can put their leg backwards like that.

Pink Panther
03-28-2010, 10:43 PM
I agree. I think that she's holding a dance position. Her face and her body contradict themselves a bit and I think that she's probably younger than one might assume. For whatever reason, I also think that these pics were taken in Europe rather than in the US but I have no factual reasons to believe this. She's a beautiful girl and I hope that she sees herself and comes forth. The "free-spiritedness" of finding herself photographed outdoors, naked and posing like this is particularly disturbing in light of the fact that RA was photographing her.

MOO

Pink Panther
03-28-2010, 10:45 PM
Very bizzare. The head is in the same position IMO in both pics. just different angles and the leg is up. I might add I also cannot see how a person can put their leg backwards like that.
Dancers can and do. Her legs are clearly extended and the fact that she is actively (alive) and using her muscles to do so is evident in the photograph.

MOO

Donjeta
03-29-2010, 02:56 AM
I imagine it would be extremely difficult to prop a dead person upright in such a dance pose, especially without having the ropes and whatnot to show in the photo. Andh her expression seems to subtly change between the photos which it likely wouldn't if she was dead.

indiana
03-29-2010, 07:02 PM
She seems alive in these pictures to me. There are two dance poses and three sitting poses and they are all somewhat different.

I do think though that we have five pictures of this girl for a reason.

Unfortunately I have not had luck trying to match her to any of the missing. Does anyone have any ideas about possible matches?

Redbird
03-29-2010, 07:23 PM
I'm not sure she is drugged. Her expression made me think of the psychology term disassociation, where the person distances herself emotionally from what is going on in order to endure it. Common with abused children.

Claudette
03-29-2010, 09:10 PM
The necklace looks like it might actually be hair jewelery. Did people put beads and stuff in their hair in the 70s?

indiana
03-29-2010, 11:38 PM
The necklace looks like it might actually be hair jewelery. Did people put beads and stuff in their hair in the 70s?

I was actually wondering if the part hanging down that we can see is a roach clip. People used to sometimes wear those in their hair. They often had feathers in them or were beaded.

Bargle
03-30-2010, 07:24 AM
Looks like just a tassel in the cropped, enlarged picture I posted.

smiles_001
04-01-2010, 10:48 PM
To me, she looks relaxed but pretty stoned. I wonder if he was taking these as if a photo shoot and she's thinking everything's alright and then maybe afterward something bad could have happened? I just hate the fact that they seem to be out in the middle of no where alone. That doesn't make me feel to good about her being alive but you never know.

DD Byrd
04-02-2010, 11:08 AM
That doesn't look like a dancer's muscle tone or toe point. But she might be flexible. And she definitely looks high.

twiggles
04-02-2010, 12:10 PM
That doesn't look like a dancer's muscle tone or toe point. But she might be flexible. And she definitely looks high.

I agree with you. This photo is disturbing to me. Not only does the toe point and arch of the foot look wrong to me, but the general way the leg is facing looks wrong. At first I thought it was someone elses leg. Her arms are not out stetched like a dance movement would be in order to keep her balance. Just my 2 cents

Mensch
04-02-2010, 12:17 PM
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=300&h=175http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4910/balletposes1.jpg?w=378&h=354

FWIW, I showed this photo to a gymnastic instructor. She said the following:
The pose illustration shows the lower leg and toe pointing downward which is the classic dance pose. However, the "Helmet" girl's leg is a straight on shot and you can see the rounded beginning of the hip area, meaning there is no way a person could contort into this pose. Note the frontal position of the leg. Her conclusion was that there is another girl in the photo, on her side, facing the camera, doing a side leg lift.
Feel free to check this out. Not sure who it could be with her, but looking at the brushy location, it could be someone from other photos.

twiggles
04-02-2010, 12:19 PM
Thanks for checking this out. I knew it looked odd. I couldn't figure out how someone could contort their body that way.

Mensch
04-02-2010, 01:24 PM
Thanks for checking this out. I knew it looked odd. I couldn't figure out how someone could contort their body that way.
You're welcome twiggles. Just another bit of input on such a huge bizarre puzzle. It would be nice if LE would at least make public the ones that have been identified.

Bargle
04-02-2010, 04:57 PM
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=300&h=175http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4910/balletposes1.jpg?w=378&h=354

FWIW, I showed this photo to a gymnastic instructor. She said the following:
The pose illustration shows the lower leg and toe pointing downward which is the classic dance pose. However, the "Helmet" girl's leg is a straight on shot and you can see the rounded beginning of the hip area, meaning there is no way a person could contort into this pose. Note the frontal position of the leg. Her conclusion was that there is another girl in the photo, on her side, facing the camera, doing a side leg lift.
Feel free to check this out. Not sure who it could be with her, but looking at the brushy location, it could be someone from other photos.

I bow to the instructor's superior knowledge.
Now we have the mystery of who the second girl is.

Mensch
04-02-2010, 05:14 PM
I bow to the instructor's superior knowledge.
Now we have the mystery of who the second girl is.
So do I, Bargle. I find it very helpful and time saving to check with people in their particular area of expertise when doing research. Now I am hoping someone will identify the tree in several of the photos to determine if the same location. Looking at the man hanging upside down, it appears there are wild hackberry bushes, but then that is only a guess based on memory. I feel certain someone here is very knowledgeable of the foliage in those pics.

Cymro
04-02-2010, 05:39 PM
I don't know of course but ... no one could make that pose while healthy. Did you manage to find out if the limb had been disarticulated - could someone make that pose then? Obviously it'd be impossibly painful but Alcala wouldn't care about that. My gut feeling says that it'd still be too much but it'd be good to know if there has to be a second person there.

Something even worse but not likely has occurred to me - if she's dead she could be dismembered and then posed. Disgusting but I can't rule it out. I think it's more likely that there's a second person out of frame.

Filly
04-02-2010, 06:45 PM
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg?w=300&h=175http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4910/balletposes1.jpg?w=378&h=354

FWIW, I showed this photo to a gymnastic instructor. She said the following:
The pose illustration shows the lower leg and toe pointing downward which is the classic dance pose. However, the "Helmet" girl's leg is a straight on shot and you can see the rounded beginning of the hip area, meaning there is no way a person could contort into this pose. Note the frontal position of the leg. Her conclusion was that there is another girl in the photo, on her side, facing the camera, doing a side leg lift.
Feel free to check this out. Not sure who it could be with her, but looking at the brushy location, it could be someone from other photos.

Thank you so very much. I had originally said "There is no way in Holy h*ll a person can contort their body like that".

In all honesty I think her head isn't right either. I've seen people do an over the shoulder pose plenty of times, but this poor souls head is not right.

I also think this may be ther person doing the handstand I thought was male.

I don't believe the necklace is a necklace back in those necklace photos on this thread. I believe this is how this nutter strangled them and then would revive the women. I don't think any of the women posed like this in the wild were alive in these photographs. I don't think she is high I believe she is passed definately the girl with the leg pose. Also I think we can see blood pooling at closer inspection in the extremeties.

Also the girl with her hands posed over her head? Could she be hanging upside down? I don't think so as the trees are also going the correct way. Can a person pose a deceased body like that after rigor mortis leaves? I think it's you're only in rigor mortis for several hours?

This guy is a monster. It's all really disturbing. I pray for these women. I pray they were high before he did this, and couldn't even begin to fathom..........

twiggles
04-02-2010, 07:01 PM
Another thing I just noticed when I enlarged pic #2 was a black strap hanging down from maybe the helmet ? which runs along her right arm. Not sure what that is. Does anyone else see that?

Mensch
04-02-2010, 07:02 PM
I don't know of course but ... no one could make that pose while healthy. Did you manage to find out if the limb had been disarticulated - could someone make that pose then? Obviously it'd be impossibly painful but Alcala wouldn't care about that. My gut feeling says that it'd still be too much but it'd be good to know if there has to be a second person there.

Something even worse but not likely has occurred to me - if she's dead she could be dismembered and then posed. Disgusting but I can't rule it out. I think it's more likely that there's a second person out of frame.
BBM
Cymro,
As I do not have any knowledge of dance or gymnastic moves, I did ask this question and after the "rounded" area on the side of the upper leg was explained, I understood it could not be. Perhaps others here know of someone they could ask and we could have another opinion.

Mensch
04-02-2010, 07:14 PM
Thank you so very much. I had originally said "There is no way in Holy h*ll a person can contort their body like that".

In all honesty I think her head isn't right either. I've seen people do an over the shoulder pose plenty of times, but this poor souls head is not right.

I also think this may be ther person doing the handstand I thought was male.

I don't believe the necklace is a necklace back in those necklace photos on this thread. I believe this is how this nutter strangled them and then would revive the women. I don't think any of the women posed like this in the wild were alive in these photographs. I don't think she is high I believe she is passed definately the girl with the leg pose. Also I think we can see blood pooling at closer inspection in the extremeties.

Also the girl with her hands posed over her head? Could she be hanging upside down? I don't think so as the trees are also going the correct way. Can a person pose a deceased body like that after rigor mortis leaves? I think it's you're only in rigor mortis for several hours?

This guy is a monster. It's all really disturbing. I pray for these women. I pray they were high before he did this, and couldn't even begin to fathom..........
Yes her head does look strange. Not sure what is going on there. As to the necklace I was wondering if this was some type of garrote but I have someone who loves vintage jewelry doing some research. If you want to pursue this, I would think searching "vintage" 60's choker necklaces might be a good place to start.
I am still working on my photo software so I cannot get a better look at the area you refer to on the possible blood pooling. Could you point out a specific place? I am just speculating here, but am leaning to the possibility this is the same area as the girl in the red shorts was photographed. However, there is a bruise on the right leg of that girl that does not show up on this pic with the 'leg lift'.
Any ideas?
Now to the necklace (lack of better description). I will not claim any professional knowledge here but do a lot of photo comparison work and it is my opinion the photo of the girl with her hands in the air - she is in motion in this frame. Note the upward swing of not only the 'necklace, but her hair as well. One can only imagine what she may be doing 'in motion' but these photos have been described as "sexually suggestive". I think that is evident by the amount of cropping. But am positive, the girl is in motion as in moving upward.
Just random thoughts.

Bargle
04-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Another thing I just noticed when I enlarged pic #2 was a black strap hanging down from maybe the helmet ? which runs along her right arm. Not sure what that is. Does anyone else see that?

It's part of the helmet strap. She has it unhooked.

Filly
04-02-2010, 08:18 PM
Yes her head does look strange. Not sure what is going on there. As to the necklace I was wondering if this was some type of garrote but I have someone who loves vintage jewelry doing some research. If you want to pursue this, I would think searching "vintage" 60's choker necklaces might be a good place to start.
I am still working on my photo software so I cannot get a better look at the area you refer to on the possible blood pooling. Could you point out a specific place? I am just speculating here, but am leaning to the possibility this is the same area as the girl in the red shorts was photographed. However, there is a bruise on the right leg of that girl that does not show up on this pic with the 'leg lift'.
Any ideas?
Now to the necklace (lack of better description). I will not claim any professional knowledge here but do a lot of photo comparison work and it is my opinion the photo of the girl with her hands in the air - she is in motion in this frame. Note the upward swing of not only the 'necklace, but her hair as well. One can only imagine what she may be doing 'in motion' but these photos have been described as "sexually suggestive". I think that is evident by the amount of cropping. But am positive, the girl is in motion as in moving upward.
Just random thoughts.

Again thank you so much, Mensch.

When Jessnlill gets on to post perhaps they will be able to help me zoom in to where I believe to see the blood pooling. Jess is great at manipulating the photographs.

Good lookout on the motion in the frame. In my mind I always look for "motion blur", and that's not correct. Obviously.

Not to add more to the game, but I also believe this girl at link is perhaps in the same area being photographed. Something is up with the film speed or maybe he did it on purpose? However, this girl is bruised on her knee. Odder still is he has her posed with finger under chin and as she points to her arm her finger on her arm is distinctly covering a bruise. We'd also made note prior to swelling in this girl's ankles.

The poor horribly posed woman though I don't need the photo blown up to see that nasty bruise across her knee. I absolutely believe he purposely hit these women in ther feet, knees and ankles in case they tried to run.

Thank you again for your insight. I will check out those necklaces as well.



http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00641.jpg

smiles_001
04-02-2010, 11:30 PM
You're welcome twiggles. Just another bit of input on such a huge bizarre puzzle. It would be nice if LE would at least make public the ones that have been identified.


Thank you for the info Mensch and I agree with you about LE making public the people that have been identified. I look at all of their faces and am so curious if they are alive today or not. Alcala is indeed a truly evil person and I am glad he will never get out of prison again.

It's so sad how one minute your life is fine and then the next you are in the face of a monster that changes everything. I know there must be an extra hot place in h*ll for people like him.

My mama's sister was murdered in 1976 and it totally devestated our family, especially my grandmother. She is passed away now but the years of depression and sadness she went through was beyond belief. I even have pictures of her before the murder and years after the murder and you can see the pain etched all in her face, her eyes hollow, a look of total despair.

The only good news was that the man was caught within a day or two. My aunt had stopped by a small bar & grill to cash her paycheck and when she came outside, he was waiting in the bushes and hit her over the head with a steel pipe. She went into a coma and we finally had to take her off life support. :( He got life and some years back he died. To this day, I wonder if he ever felt any remorse.

I think that because of what happened to my aunt, that has made me more curious as to why people can be so evil and hurt others. People like this guy, Alcala for instance. What caused him to have no regard for human life, was he born evil or did he become this way through circumstances?

Anyhow, I am talking too much..lol. Thanks for listening and back to the case. :)

jessunlil
04-03-2010, 01:24 AM
When Jessnlill gets on to post perhaps they will be able to help me zoom in to where I believe to see the blood pooling. Jess is great at manipulating the photographs.


Thanks Filly!

Been fighting a headache all day so my brain's not processing things very well right now and I'm not sure what specific photo you're referencing when you mention blood pooling.

I'll do my best to help in any way I can!

Filly
04-03-2010, 02:57 AM
Thanks Filly!

Been fighting a headache all day so my brain's not processing things very well right now and I'm not sure what specific photo you're referencing when you mention blood pooling.

I'll do my best to help in any way I can!

Feel better, Jess. Those headaches that won't quit are the absolute worse.

Don't even mind it for now. Just feel better.

BTW, I was searching all the tassel necklaces. There are so many. Mensch was sure right there.

Also the tassels on the end of like blind cords I found looks similar as well. I thought of that as I know they can choke someone. God forbid.

Mensch
04-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Again thank you so much, Mensch.

When Jessnlill gets on to post perhaps they will be able to help me zoom in to where I believe to see the blood pooling. Jess is great at manipulating the photographs.

Good lookout on the motion in the frame. In my mind I always look for "motion blur", and that's not correct. Obviously.

Not to add more to the game, but I also believe this girl at link is perhaps in the same area being photographed. Something is up with the film speed or maybe he did it on purpose? However, this girl is bruised on her knee. Odder still is he has her posed with finger under chin and as she points to her arm her finger on her arm is distinctly covering a bruise. We'd also made note prior to swelling in this girl's ankles.

The poor horribly posed woman though I don't need the photo blown up to see that nasty bruise across her knee. I absolutely believe he purposely hit these women in ther feet, knees and ankles in case they tried to run.

Thank you again for your insight. I will check out those necklaces as well.



http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00641.jpg
Thanks for posting the link Filly. This is the girl I referred to in the post but she has a bruise on the same leg showing in the forefront of the other photo that does not show one. I believe there were several persons at that spot. I think you are correct in that this is one location for both girls.

jessunlil
04-03-2010, 06:31 PM
The more I look at this photo, the weirder it gets.
(http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00273.jpg)

Here's a close-up of the leg/hip area.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10/grumpybucket/Alcala/dncr1a.jpg

rosierider
04-03-2010, 07:53 PM
There are people who can do "contortion ballet". Google it and see what I'm talking about. The skin on her body and on the leg match perfectly. I know I couldn't strike this pose, but I think that maybe she really did.

Filly
04-03-2010, 08:14 PM
There are people who can do "contortion ballet". Google it and see what I'm talking about. The skin on her body and on the leg match perfectly. I know I couldn't strike this pose, but I think that maybe she really did.

O.K. rosie. If this woman did know how to do this maybe it would fit in with Alcala's "dancers" theme?

I posted a letter for sale by Alcala. In it he asks the seller of the letter to get him pictures of a certain actress in a bikini. The woman plays a dancer in a TV movie and a featured film. Oh and if he couldn't get any of her in a bikini he wants one with bare legs showing. Creepy enough but after seeing all these photographs it's plain sad.

Also, Robin was on her way to ballet class. Ya know I bet he stalked firls who came and went to ballet classes. Perhaps that wasn't a chance meeting. So sad again.

I looked at those contortionists. I still don't believe this poor lady was doing that on her own. Her head is way out of line or something. Thanks though as those contortionists are interesting.

So, maybe we are looking for a missing ballet dancer?

Sleuthster
04-03-2010, 08:18 PM
O.K. rosie. If this woman did know how to do this maybe it would fit in with Alcala's "dancers" theme?

I posted a letter for sale by Alcala. In it he asks the seller of the letter to get him pictures of a certain actress in a bikini. The woman plays a dancer in a TV movie and a featured film. Oh and if he couldn't get any of her in a bikini he wants one with bare legs showing. Creepy enough but after seeing all these photographs it's plain sad.

Also, Robin was on her way to ballet class. Ya know I bet he stalked firls who came and went to ballet classes. Perhaps that wasn't a chance meeting. So sad again.

I looked at those contortionists. I still don't believe this poor lady was doing that on her own. Her head is way out of line or something. Thanks though as those contortionists are interesting.

So, maybe we are looking for a missing ballet dancer?

IMO the legs too big for ballet dancer. I do however think that this girl is not well if not expired. I mean if you look at the helmet and contortion pictures her eyes do not change the head is in a weird position. The contortion picture it almost looks unnatural the way her head is turned so much (like a broken neck?) and her eyes are not that way and she doesnt look high in the third pic that looks like she is ontop of someone doing somethng.

rosierider
04-03-2010, 08:49 PM
Ballet dancers tend to be very thin, often to the point of anorexia. I've never seen a ballerina with big thighs.

Sleuthster
04-03-2010, 08:53 PM
Ballet dancers tend to be very thin, often to the point of anorexia. I've never seen a ballerina with big thighs.

Exactly.

rosierider
04-03-2010, 08:56 PM
I really really really hope that we eventually find out the fate of this one. She's haunting me.

Mensch
04-03-2010, 09:52 PM
...My mama's sister was murdered in 1976 and it totally devestated our family, especially my grandmother. She is passed away now but the years of depression and sadness she went through was beyond belief. I even have pictures of her before the murder and years after the murder and you can see the pain etched all in her face, her eyes hollow, a look of total despair.
People like this guy, Alcala for instance. What caused him to have no regard for human life, was he born evil or did he become this way through circumstances?
:)
Sorry to hear of your loss smiles. There are many reasons people do the unspeakable to others and I am sick and tired of them being defended as having addictions (as in porn) or they were 'insane'. There is such a thing as plain evil in this world and it seems folks don't want to admit it so they call it something else. Alcala was not of this world and he was not insane. Evil beyond description. MO

Imbackon
04-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Ballet dancers tend to be very thin, often to the point of anorexia. I've never seen a ballerina with big thighs.

There is just one girl in the pic imho.
Not only is skin the same, but how the heck would a dead person just happen to be classically looking back at her foot as this pose has? How does her mouth stay beautifully closed with still supple lips?


You would have had to have put a pole thru her body to get her back to remain straight up and there would be ropes or something hanging her from everywhere.
This is simply a live woman, who was very flexible. Heck I think I could have done this pose when I was young and I only took ballet for 4 years.
One secret to this pose is being able to greatly arch your back, and I clearly see where her back is rippled where the main bend is. Some is hair that you see but at the very bottom it is a bend.

rosierider
04-03-2010, 10:35 PM
I am back again. Looking again. I still think it is HER leg. She's not a famous ballerina with a perfect ballet body type, but a very flexible girl who has taken lessons and can strike amazing poses.

Imbackon
04-03-2010, 11:07 PM
I am back again. Looking again. I still think it is HER leg. She's not a famous ballerina with a perfect ballet body type, but a very flexible girl who has taken lessons and can strike amazing poses.

I have tried to find a good illustration, but it's hard to get for free. There are descriptions in books of different arabesque positions, which is what this is, but the variations descriptions have words I don't even understand (french terms I think?) but sounds like 4th position with the head turn being just an added thing, because usual the head is "in profile" . It all depends on where the audience is compared to the dancer I think.
p.s Modern day dancers are more likely to be anorexic compared to years back. I think ballet dancers can have some pretty muscular legs, so what may appear to be husky, is just muscle.

rubelet
04-04-2010, 05:08 AM
I am back again. Looking again. I still think it is HER leg. She's not a famous ballerina with a perfect ballet body type, but a very flexible girl who has taken lessons and can strike amazing poses.

Agreed. Many former dancers/gymnasts can probably perform such maneuvers without having an overly slim body.

I think the poses look awkward because they are cropped to prevent showing any nudity.

Mensch
04-04-2010, 11:01 AM
When I posted the reply from a gymnastic teacher regarding the 'pose', I accepted, relunctently, her opinion as I know nothing from gymnastics. I have been following the input of others here (good observations) and looking at the photo.
I am still on the fence about this but am leaning more to this is one girl.
Reason? While I don't know dance positions, I know a bit about camera angle and lighting. Looking at the photo, the let is exactly as the instructor said - it is a straight on shot; however, the upper portion of the body showing suggests an upward angle while taking a photo.
So one way of explaining it is the same girl is to say that her pose is NOT as exaggerated as it appears. It is the angle. The one taking the photo is down looking up to photo. Considering the sexual nature of these photos, I can see why it would be taken at this angle. Sheesh! If that person was beside the girl, her extended leg would appear pointed down as in the usual dance pose. Not sure if I explained this well enough. Hope it helps.

Bargle
04-04-2010, 12:15 PM
When I posted the reply from a gymnastic teacher regarding the 'pose', I accepted, relunctantly, her opinion as I know nothing from gymnastics. I have been following the input of others here (good observations) and looking at the photo.
I am still on the fence about this but am leaning more to this is one girl.
Reason? While I don't know dance positions, I know a bit about camera angle and lighting. Looking at the photo, the let is exactly as the instructor said - it is a straight on shot; however, the upper portion of the body showing suggests an upward angle while taking a photo.
So one way of explaining it is the same girl is to say that her pose is NOT as exaggerated as it appears. It is the angle. The one taking the photo is down looking up to photo. Considering the sexual nature of these photos, I can see why it would be taken at this angle. Sheesh! If that person was beside the girl, her extended leg would appear pointed down as in the usual dance pose. Not sure if I explained this well enough. Hope it helps.

In addition to your thoughts on the angle the picture is taken from, I also note that the tree in the background is leaning at an angle. That could be natural, but I wasn't sure, so I straightened the tree in my photo editor. Overall the picture doesn't look that much different, but I did notice that now the hair on the right side of her head hangs straight showing that is correct orientation. I don't know if that matters for beans, but here's the re-angled pic.

Mensch
04-04-2010, 12:35 PM
In addition to your thoughts on the angle the picture is taken from, I also note that the tree in the background is leaning at an angle. That could be natural, but I wasn't sure, so I straightened the tree in my photo editor. Overall the picture doesn't look that much different, but I did notice that now the hair on the right side of her head hangs straight showing that is correct orientation. I don't know if that matters for beans, but here's the re-angled pic.
Thanks Bargle. I also have manipulated the photo into different angles and lighting. Even considering the upward angle of the shot, it still leaves a very long distance from the rounded hip ares seen in the photo to the torso of the girl which appears entirely twisted in a position completely opposite of the forward view of the leg. I am not sure if it is even relevant to the purpose of the photo which is identifying the person shown, but if there are others in the image, that is generally beneficial.

bludahlia
04-04-2010, 01:45 PM
i go back and forth as well, but i do agree that it's the angle that the photo was taken rather than the impossible angle of her leg. also the leg looks larger b/c her big toe's practically hitting the top of the photographer's head.

still, i don't like the look on her face. it's like she can't control her eye movement. it's eerie and quite disturbing.

Donjeta
04-21-2010, 05:18 PM
http://www.wpix.com/media/photo/2010-04/53402612.jpg
http://www.wpix.com/media/photo/2010-04/53402885.jpg

HockeyGirl
04-21-2010, 10:10 PM
Just curious, where did you find these new pics? i'm still hoping for the day they release more unknowns.

Pink Panther
04-21-2010, 10:13 PM
Just curious, where did you find these new pics? i'm still hoping for the day they release more unknowns.


The NYPD re-released many of the original pictures today and just to confuse everyone...they didn't put the "new" pics in a separate folder but just lobbed them in with the old ones and threw in a few of the women who have already been identified as living and safe. Nice job guys!

ETA - Oh...And they had some new pics of people who were part of the initial release but they didn't bother to mention that either and left it to the public to sort this all out.

HockeyGirl
04-21-2010, 10:25 PM
Thank you.

How do they expect the public to help when they are this disorganized? Grrrrr!

carbuff
04-22-2010, 11:31 AM
http://www.wpix.com/media/photo/2010-04/53402612.jpg
http://www.wpix.com/media/photo/2010-04/53402885.jpg

Looks like she's sitting naked on a motorcycle in the bottom picture. See the rearview mirror along the tree's trunk?

The trees are very clear here -- oaks, and probably an elm. Northeastern trees. Full summer coloring.

RubyRed
04-24-2010, 04:38 PM
http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wabc/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/Photo-50.jpg

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wabc/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/photo-56.jpg

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wabc/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/Photo-61.jpg


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/gallery?section=news&id=7397420&photo=50

I don't remember seeing these posted.

Billylee
05-08-2010, 12:18 PM
Punklove, could you move post your blow up pictures that you put in the "man hanging" thread over here of the thing around this girl's neck?

Bargle
05-08-2010, 12:53 PM
Bringing this over from the hanging man thread.

I think both of these pictures are sinister. The one of the *hanging man" in my opinion is the most sinister in the collection. The picture of the girl with the trees also is very disturbing. I don't think we noticed for a long time that there was something strange around her neck. Even blown up I can't identify what it was and it may have been something he invented. I do really appreciate people blowing up details that we have questions about, and side by side comparisons of details. I think it would be a mistake to group these two together, though. It causes a lot of confusion for me, because I don't think the two people have a lot in common, aside from how creepy the pictures are.
Looks like a wooden bead necklace to me. Nothing sinister about that. Here's a lightened and cropped version of her neck.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7606/pagan3b.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/pagan3b.jpg/)

Billylee
05-08-2010, 01:04 PM
Bringing this over from the hanging man thread.


Looks like a wooden bead necklace to me. Nothing sinister about that. Here's a lightened and cropped version of her neck.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7606/pagan3b.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/pagan3b.jpg/)

Thanks Bargle, can you post a similar type picture of the image where it looks like it's pinching her neck that Punklove posted, not sure which image that is from though.

Bargle
05-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Thanks Bargle, can you post a similar type picture of the image where it looks like it's pinching her neck that Punklove posted, not sure which image that is from though.

I think you mean this one.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3476/pagan1d.jpg

Redbird
05-09-2010, 11:00 PM
That's the one I meant and it looks sinister to me but blowing it up didn't help.

Bargle
05-09-2010, 11:03 PM
That's the one I meant and it looks sinister to me but blowing it up didn't help.

Yeah, I don't have a better quality copy on this one. Cropping it down and enlarging it just makes it worse.

punklove
05-14-2010, 12:50 AM
Punklove, could you move post your blow up pictures that you put in the "man hanging" thread over here of the thing around this girl's neck?

I was doing a side by side for comparison:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2e2fotu.jpg

The blown up version of the other photo is really disturbing, It certainly could be shadows, but I wanted to point out what looks like wounds.


So.. starting with just the original photo - no changes made other than making it bigger.

http://i40.tinypic.com/11jrpfp.jpg

Ive circled some bothersome spots -

http://i41.tinypic.com/29qgj2p.jpg


And here are super close ups of the areas.

Hands
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ds944.jpg

Face (her jawline looks off to me too..)
http://i44.tinypic.com/24uz5w8.jpg

Im not sure what it is, It could be a choker type necklace that is pinching her neck a bit because of the angle of her head. I really dont know, Her jaw line (on our right when looking at the photo) looks a little weird to me as well, though It could just be the angle.



I didnt add anything to the photo, I only resized it 300% because I was attempting to do a side by side of the two.

Bare with me while I brainstorm: This photo really confuses me.

To start - whatever is around her neck.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxyrlj.jpg

Try pinching the skin around that part of your neck, even if you barely pinch it then stop it really feels sensitive, try pinching your neck to the extent it looks hers is and see how long you can deal with the feeling.. if it is just a necklace, would she not remove or fix it so its not pinching?

Is this the same girl?
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg

If so, you can see the necklace isnt meant to be pinching like that..

http://i43.tinypic.com/dw2b13.jpg

Bargle
05-14-2010, 08:08 AM
In the other picture of her with her hands over her head, it doesn't look like the necklace is there at all. I'll speculate that the clasp broke and she tied it on somehow using the tassle that we see in the other picture. That was too tight, leading to the pinched neck, and she finally took it off all together.

The one picture of her with her hands over her head and the necklace tight just looks like a bad print to me. All the colors in it look off from the other pictures, including the background trees.

rosierider
05-14-2010, 12:34 PM
Maybe her hands and elbow are covered with mud/dirt from doing a back bend.

Billylee
05-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Maybe her hands and elbow are covered with mud/dirt from doing a back bend.

I don't think the helmet person and the back bend person are the same girl. Some here even think the back bend person is a male.

rosierider
05-14-2010, 11:18 PM
I think if back bend person was male, we would see more of his chest :^)....that the picture would be cropped differently. It's a shame that those who KNOW (can see all the picture) won't communicate with us.

punklove
05-15-2010, 07:19 PM
I think if back bend person was male, we would see more of his chest :^)....that the picture would be cropped differently. It's a shame that those who KNOW (can see all the picture) won't communicate with us.

Thats what I thought at first too, But after seeing the communion girl photo was edited I really have no idea what they were doing or why they would edit things a certain way.

WildHuncher
02-12-2011, 02:31 PM
On the Blonde, Sad-Faced girl thread, different people were seeing different things in that person's expression. I thought there was a certain despair reminiscent of one of Helmet/Dancer's expressions. I came back for a look.

Never mind that for now. WHERE are her shoulders in the helmet pic? (Answer: Behind her. HARD back.)

She's a lithe, athletic woman and has no worse than normal-width shoulders for a woman. Many of her pictures show that. But they're gone in the top shot.

She looks tied-up and has the face to match.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae97/WildHuncher/Shoulders.jpg

Redbird
02-12-2011, 02:43 PM
In the first picture she has no shoulder. This picture must have been altered somehow. I would like to have norestforthewicked's comments about how this picture could have been made.

WildHuncher
02-12-2011, 02:46 PM
In the first picture she has no shoulder. This picture must have been altered somehow. I would like to have norestforthewicked's comments about how this picture could have been made.
There's no need to invoke trickery if her shoulders are with her arms, behind her back. Occam's Razor.

Edit: Nancy Grace 394 is the big version for pixel-sleuthing.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg

norest4thewicked
02-13-2011, 12:52 AM
No big trick or magic in this. Its simple the angle and lighting. The right shoulder is normal, but she is angled enough (pulling her left shoulder back at an angle) that it appears she has no shoulders. Also, the way the light is hitting her is deceiving. If you enlarge the photo to it's max by putting your curser on the photo and holding down alt and hitting your + sign, you can make it very large. You will see the other shoulder through her hair. It's not exactly what would be called an optical illusion, but its somewhat of one.

WildHuncher
02-13-2011, 06:57 AM
I wasn't trying to be obscure, just trying to avoid dramatic overstatement. Indeed, you can see the round little nub of the other shoulder through her hair. The point is that her shoulders appear amazingly narrow in the top picture compared to any of the others and her arms are invisible. Her appearance is in every way consistent with her being hog-tied, arms behind her. You can't see enough to really confirm it, of course.

To better understand it, go to a mirror. Put your arms together behind you and watch how skinny your shoulder region gets. That's picture one.

WildHuncher
02-13-2011, 09:35 AM
I wasn't trying to be obscure, just trying to avoid dramatic overstatement. Indeed, you can see the round little nub of the other shoulder through her hair. The point is that her shoulders appear amazingly narrow in the top picture compared to any of the others and her arms are invisible. Her appearance is in every way consistent with her being hog-tied, arms behind her. You can't see enough to really confirm it, of course.

To better understand it, go to a mirror. Put your arms together behind you and watch how skinny your shoulder region gets. That's picture one.

OTOH: There's a scrap of what might be white fabric on the right side of the picture, at the very bottom next to where her hair disappears out of the frame. She could just be putting a shirt on, getting ready to jump back on the bike and go home after a morning of naughtily innocent fun.

WildHuncher
02-13-2011, 09:46 AM
The right shoulder is normal, but she is angled enough (pulling her left shoulder back at an angle) that it appears she has no shoulders...

Now I do see the right shoulder as being nearer than I was perceiving it before. I still think it's actually back, but not as far away as the other one. It could well be she's putting on (or taking off) a shirt.

plait
02-13-2011, 11:12 AM
This girl seemed to have been well trained as a dancer. I just wondered if a dance teacher would not have remembered her.

WildHuncher
02-13-2011, 10:26 PM
I realize this place could be almost anywhere in the East if not the world, but he's known to have taken two women to the Rockefeller Estate/Preserve/Park in NY State. One of them even came back.

An image Google:

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7HPIA_en&q=%22Rockefeller+Preserve%22+Westchester&wrapid=tlif129765337767110&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1020&bih=567

plait
02-15-2011, 10:08 PM
If dancer girl is the one in the back bend pic I wonder if she could she have fallen, and gotten hurt? Maybe RA was trying something kinky with her thats why the helmet is on. She removed it, fell, but this time it was fatal. Instead of getting help he finished her off.

WildHuncher
02-16-2011, 08:25 PM
If dancer girl is the one in the back bend pic I wonder if she could she have fallen, and gotten hurt? Maybe RA was trying something kinky with her thats why the helmet is on. She removed it, fell, but this time it was fatal. Instead of getting help he finished her off.

One of the little tragedies of being on death row for four murders already is NOBODY BELIEVES you if you say you just sorta happened to be nearby when somebody else fell and landed just the wrong way.

I still think Helmet Girl looks as much like Backbend/Hang Girl as does anybody else in the locker pictures. But now I'm getting the hopeful idea her pictures may be a modeling session referred to in newspaper accounts as taking place shortly after Ellen Hover's disappearance and very near where her body was eventually found. That person lived to tell the tale. For all the news stories say, she may have been just fine for it all. Here's a typical one.


New York police detectives were intrigued when they located yet another young, attractive single woman who told them that Alcala had enticed her to pose for his camera in 1977.

She mentioned that Alcala took her to the Rockefeller Estate for the photo session.

And it turned out that Alcala and the model walked within 100 feet of where Hover's body was later found.


http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-07-15/crime/24640307_1_ellen-s-father-beaver-college-godfathers

In this particular instance, Alcala would be getting his perverted jollies from knowing Ellen Hover's decomposing remains were right nearby even as this other potential victim--a potential he decided not to realize--was innocently dancing and posing away right in front of him. (EEEeeew!)

Really creepy, yes. But my heart has gone out to dancer girl and I would probably wet a shirtsleeve or two with happiness if she's OK. (I'm a guy but, like the new House Speaker, I can mist up sometimes.)

Redbird
02-16-2011, 09:55 PM
There is a little information in the article I haven't read before. There is one error I noticed. The reporter states he was living in New York when Ellen Hoover was killed but our timeline from a previous OCRegister article says he was vacationing and visiting relatives in New York during this time. I don't think he ever actually lived in New York after his release from parole in Monterey Park, CA in June 1977.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/alcala-243387-photos-detectives.html?graphics=1#graphics1

plait
02-17-2011, 04:22 PM
But now I'm getting the hopeful idea her pictures may be a modeling session referred to in newspaper accounts as taking place shortly after Ellen Hover's disappearance and very near where her body was eventually found. That person lived to tell the tale. For all the news stories say, she may have been just fine for it all. Here's a typical one.
http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-07-15/crime/24640307_1_ellen-s-father-beaver-college-godfathers

In this particular instance, Alcala would be getting his perverted jollies from knowing Ellen Hover's decomposing remains were right nearby even as this other potential victim--a potential he decided not to realize--was innocently dancing and posing away right in front of him. (EEEeeew!)

Really creepy, yes. But my heart has gone out to dancer girl and I would probably wet a shirtsleeve or two with happiness if she's OK. (I'm a guy but, like the new House Speaker, I can mist up sometimes.)

I would be so happy to hear she's alive. I would love to hear her story. I hope she kept on with her dancing. Yap I could see RA getting excited about someone dancing over a decomposing body.

Paschein
07-26-2011, 10:06 PM
The image posted earlier and said no way anyone can bend like that.. I was a dancer/ballerina most my life my step mother was a teacher that is an Arabesque, your gymnast is incorrect the knee should be turned to outward (not down as stated) just as your helmet girl has it as well as her point, this image looks perfectly normal to me.. other than maybe a little 'high'
Yes we did wear necklaces like that in the 70's and many time one end was a roach clip and that is how we fastened them behind.

here is a picture for reference of a Arabesque
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque_(ballet_position)

Believe me I could bend in postions you wouldn't think possible :) she looks to be what we called double jointed in the image with her arms over her head

I would agree the lay of the land looks a lot like "Rockefeller Preserve" Westchester lets hope she is one that got to walk out of there..

WildHuncher
07-28-2011, 08:56 AM
...

I would agree the lay of the land looks a lot like "Rockefeller Preserve" Westchester lets hope she is one that got to walk out of there..

This girl is NOT one of several lately flagged as "identified," which should be true of the Alcala model who talked with police after Hover's body was found.

But maybe that's an oversight. Or maybe the police have lost contact with that witness and don't know now if these pictures are of her? It's hard to guess what's going on.

WildHuncher
07-31-2011, 04:40 PM
I've been looking at something since late last year, trying to decide if it's anything. I had at first assumed the two pictures below were taken within seconds of each other. Toss the head right, toss the head left. The lighting seems the same, the background is only slightly shifted, and the poses are almost identical.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae97/WildHuncher/Head_Tosses.jpg

But the one on the left bothered me in a way the one on the right didn't. Blow it up, you get this.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae97/WildHuncher/Dark_Mass.jpg

Add some brightness and you get this.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae97/WildHuncher/Dark_Mass_Brightened.jpg

No, I really don't know if it's anything. But it makes me think of the head hair on hanger-backbender that doesn't drape under gravity, that looks stuck to something.

norest4thewicked
09-27-2011, 11:10 PM
Bumping up for possible new interest.

GGE
06-06-2013, 10:01 AM
Add some brightness and you get this.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae97/WildHuncher/Dark_Mass_Brightened.jpg

No, I really don't know if it's anything. But it makes me think of the head hair on hanger-backbender that doesn't drape under gravity, that looks stuck to something.

SBM-

Looks like she's bleeding out of her left eye socket quite badly and it's streaming down her face towards her nose. ETA, actually she has a massive head wound on her forehead under that hair. Holy cow. WTF.

How "funny" that he puts her in a helmet but then takes her to the woods and finishes her off with a head injury. By the look of it.

ETA: here I put a circle around the wound in the so helpfully lightened version quoted above:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/justjen/Dark_Mass_Brightened_zps24ce7f74.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/justjen/media/Dark_Mass_Brightened_zps24ce7f74.jpg.html)

GGE
06-06-2013, 11:09 PM
So many dead picture links... so I'm going to try to post a bunch of this girl here in one spot for future reference -

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20023222837--415x415.jpg

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20039222920--415x415.jpg

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20027222852--415x415.jpg
(Cropped arabesque pic)

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20050222429--415x415.jpg

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20061222956--415x415.jpg

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20049222427--415x415.jpg
(where did the forward motion of the hair come from, I wonder?)
(there's no underarm hair so this can't be backbend person... but then again.. are her pits both red in spots like from razor burn?)

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/04/21/news/photos_galleries/g_alcala/Picture%20009222945--415x415.jpg
(Where'd her necklace go, and what's up with her forehead above her right (our left) eye?)
(looks like she's falling backwards and he caught that moment. And why is she suddenly like RIGHT in the trees? And is it me or is there DARK bruising around the neck where the necklace used to be?)

I think that's all of them. I'll try to find uncropped versions, too.

WildHuncher
06-06-2013, 11:25 PM
(Where'd her necklace go, and what's up with her forehead above her right (our left) eye?)

I think that's all of them. I'll try to find uncropped versions, too.

ETA: she has no underarm hair - she's not backbend person.

The necklace and the underarm hair are there but motion-blurred to near-invisibility. I think a flyaway strand of hair has come down over her eye in the picture.

Discussion and some bigger blowups here:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Person doing a backbend or hanging upside down in dense foliage

WildHuncher
10-19-2013, 04:08 PM
I realize this place could be almost anywhere in the East if not the world, but he's known to have taken two women to the Rockefeller Estate/Preserve/Park in NY State. One of them even came back.

An image Google:

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7HPIA_en&q=%22Rockefeller+Preserve%22+Westchester&wrapid=tlif129765337767110&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1020&bih=567

Just rechecked and the Google above now includes some pics from this guaranteed unrelated photo shoot on the Rockefeller preserve of a balerina. Many of the pictures present a similar look. Doesn't prove a thing ... but remember we KNOW he went there and took women there.

http://toddshapera.photoshelter.com/gallery/Ballerina-Bat-Mitzvah-Photography-in-Rockefeller-Preserve/G0000etnjeaT1rjg/C0000OHXe2IaV7Rc