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Sleuthster
03-28-2010, 11:45 PM
1968-1971 enrolled at NYU, film studies with director Roman Polanski (New York)

From the timeline

Call me crazy, the fact that Alcala and Polanski where connected during this time intrigues me.

As many know Sharon Tate was murdered in 1969 by Charles Manson. Some of the pictures IMO depict young women in a comfortable setting at Alcala's Greenwich Village Apt. Gave me chills and made me wonder if some of these girls where drawn in just like the Manson Family girls where drawn to Manson's crazy ways. To be honest some of the girls LOOK like members of the Manson Family.

Also, I would like to find out more on Polanski and Alcala's link. If anyone has found additional info linking these two please post it here. Thanks.

Sleuthster
03-28-2010, 11:49 PM
BTW, Sharon Tate filmed Rosemary's baby in 1968 at the Dakota Hotel in NYC. I wonder if Alcala was involved in this as a student of Polanski's at the time. Seems eerie that he could have actually come in contact with Sharon Tate right before she was killed.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063522/

Also, her last movie 12+1, filmed in 1969, was filmed in Europe AND NYC.

Redbird
03-29-2010, 11:08 AM
I doubt there was much of a connection between them. It would be something Alcala would probably have bragged about, but Polanski may have not even known him. He was quite famous by then. Polanski lived such a strange life from the time he was born, barely escaping concentration camps, then the Manson murders. It's as if he was destined to have darkness and evil follow him. In his film career did life follow art or art follow life?

Filly
03-29-2010, 05:07 PM
BTW, Sharon Tate filmed Rosemary's baby in 1968 at the Dakota Hotel in NYC. I wonder if Alcala was involved in this as a student of Polanski's at the time. Seems eerie that he could have actually come in contact with Sharon Tate right before she was killed.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063522/

Also, her last movie 12+1, filmed in 1969, was filmed in Europe AND NYC.

Love that movie. I love Mia.

I'd have to agree with Redbird in that Polanski was already famous. However, I don't buy the dark, evil following him. The fact his family was wiped out in the camps is horrific. Other than that the pervert was not murdered. His poor wife was. Luring and procuring children and drugging them and having sex with them? He brought that on himself. That right there makes you a pedophile. I don't give a flying *%#* about how talented he is if he was drugging a kid and having sex with her.

Sleuthster, the whole connection thing kind of reminds me of Angelica Houston's father and the Doctor all somehow linked to The Black Dahlia murder.

Naw, I don't think Alcala and Roman hung out. Then again? Child rapists?

archivist
03-29-2010, 07:48 PM
The theory that Dr. George Hodel had anything to do with the murder of Elizabeth Short rests on some very shaky claims from Hodel's son, who sees things in photographs and evidence lockers that are demonstrably not there. There's a certain fascinating pathology of people who believe their parents were fiendish killers, against all evidence, and that's what I believe is going on with Steve Hodel. He has recently upped his claims to say that his father also killed James Ellroy's mother, and was the Zodiac Killer.

As for Polanski, there is no evidence that in 1968, when he was newly married to Sharon Tate, that he was inclined towards or practicing pedophilia. And there would be no reason for a former film student to be hanging around the set of a big budget Hollywood film like Rosemary's Baby. This supposed link sounds more like a wannabe bragging than any real connection.

Filly
03-29-2010, 08:38 PM
The theory that Dr. George Hodel had anything to do with the murder of Elizabeth Short rests on some very shaky claims from Hodel's son, who sees things in photographs and evidence lockers that are demonstrably not there. There's a certain fascinating pathology of people who believe their parents were fiendish killers, against all evidence, and that's what I believe is going on with Steve Hodel. He has recently upped his claims to say that his father also killed James Ellroy's mother, and was the Zodiac Killer.

As for Polanski, there is no evidence that in 1968, when he was newly married to Sharon Tate, that he was inclined towards or practicing pedophilia. And there would be no reason for a former film student to be hanging around the set of a big budget Hollywood film like Rosemary's Baby. This supposed link sounds more like a wannabe bragging than any real connection.




:eek::eek::eek:Hodel's son is a police officer, right archivist? He scares me a little. Darn, I was going to bring Man Ray into the whole mix. Growing up my mom would tell me the tales of that murder. Everytime Angelica Houston came on something she'd say "See, it was her father that dated the Black Deliah". No wonder I am interested in true crime.

Heck, at least I don't believe my parent is a serial killer. Then again.....:eek:

archivist
03-30-2010, 12:06 AM
Yes, Filly, Hodel's son is a retired LAPD detective.

Interesting about your mother's remarks. When was she saying that she thought John Huston had a Black Dahlia connection? Was this after Hodel's book was first released in 2003, or before?

Donjeta
03-30-2010, 05:50 AM
I don't know if I believe him to have been chummy with Roman Polanski but I suppose it's not out of the question for his projects to have employed students in fetching and carrying etc.

If anyone has got access to Polanski DVDs from that period, maybe you could check the titles if Alcala's alias (John Berger, was it?) is listed there. Did they list all the people who had a minor role in the production in the late sixties, early seventies?

Another thought might be to look if there is anything available about Polanski's film students on the Internet. Even if he wasn't pals with Roman Polanski he might have photographed some of his fellow students. (But I expect those have been made aware of Alcala's other career and have maybe called and identified themselves already?)

Redbird
03-30-2010, 09:00 AM
Rosemary's Baby was the only film he made in the US (in 1968) in NY while Alcala was a student in LA. The next movie he made in the US was Chinatown in 1974 while Alcala was in prison. He never taught film and never was associated with a university in the US. So to me it's much more likely that being a student of Polanski was a fantasy. Maybe he admired him and his dark point of view.

Redbird
03-30-2010, 09:27 AM
If Alcala ever met Polanski how I imagine it is that either in NY or Europe he saw them filming someplace and fantasized that he was part of the crew. Nothing more.

Filly
03-30-2010, 10:09 AM
Yes, Filly, Hodel's son is a retired LAPD detective.

Interesting about your mother's remarks. When was she saying that she thought John Huston had a Black Dahlia connection? Was this after Hodel's book was first released in 2003, or before?

Archivist, it had to be waaaaaaay before 2003. It was when I was in my late teens and she tried scaing the daylights out of me. I recall maybe something about Anthony Quinn and someone being married to him? They heard the voice and supposedly it sounded like the Doctor?

I'll definately ask her. She's of sound mind save for I'm her caretaker. My parents raised me "Better afraid then hurt or missing". My dad was a Detective. Truthfully it just made me the opposite.:innocent:

Redbird
03-30-2010, 01:10 PM
In doing this research on Polanski I did discover he did have a penchant for young girls. In 1976, Polanski started a romantic relationship with Nastassja Kinski, when she was 15 years old and he was 43 years old. In 1979, their relationship ended at the completion of filming Polanski's Oscar-nominated Tess, in which Kinski had played a role. I got this info from Wikipedia and IMBD.

Filly
04-01-2010, 05:08 AM
In doing this research on Polanski I did discover he did have a penchant for young girls. In 1976, Polanski started a romantic relationship with Nastassja Kinski, when she was 15 years old and he was 43 years old. In 1979, their relationship ended at the completion of filming Polanski's Oscar-nominated Tess, in which Kinski had played a role. I got this info from Wikipedia and IMBD.

That always gets me "romantic relationship" or "sexual relationship" when one of the pair are about 30 years older than the other.

Here's some testimony to what he did to a 13 year old child of whom he has called "sophisticated". Hello, due this is a child. A child you gave a qualude to.

Warning it's sickening in case anyone wants to read it.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html

IMO a grown man 30 years the senior of a child who does that has way more than a penchant for young girls. He's a pedophile. It's not just a once in a lifetime mistake the guy made. I'd love to know how many people he paid off.

Donjeta
04-01-2010, 07:00 AM
How much were Roman Polanski's relationships with young girls discussed in public in the 1960-1970s? Just wondering if it might have been a factor in Alcala's interest in him, if, as suggested in the timeline thread, he has exaggerated Polanski's teaching role in his life.

Sleuthster
04-01-2010, 10:41 AM
It's interesting also the whole Helter Skelter thing. I mean, if Alcala did have an obsession with Polanski and did research on him it would be a scary thought. I dont believe he had anything to do with Manson or the murder itself but the pictures we have seen tell a tale and in some of the photos of young women they look very comfortable if not over confident hanging out in his apartment (as well as some of the men). In some of the pictures we see woman smiling, having a great time, relaxed listening to music like they where at home and then we see some of the same women with possible bruises and tears.

It makes me wonder if he had the same charm and control with these young people that Charles Manson did. Did he gain their trust with a god like aproach, drugs, and a pad for runaways and the homeless to flop at and then kill some of them? I also look at the pictures of some of the men and wonder what role if any that they played in his sick little games.

archivist
04-01-2010, 11:13 AM
Until he began very publicly dating Nastassja Kinski circa 1976, Roman Polanski did not have a reputation for being interested in young girls and women; he had been married to two adult women in the 1960s. While I don't condone his behavior with his victim Samantha Geimer in 1977, I wonder if the situation may be a combination of drugs lowering his inhibitions as well, and something that emerged as a response to the trauma of his wife's murder. The adult women he was closest to (wife, mother) were murdered, so seeking out adolescent companionship instead makes a certain crazy sense.

Redbird
04-01-2010, 11:39 AM
Thanks archivisit for keeping our imaginations from running away. You have expressed my impression of Polanski. I don't condone what he did but I don't think he was a flaming pedophile. He was a pedophile like Ron Cummings is a pedophile. Manson was charismatic , don't think Alcala had any charisma. Watching the Dating Game video, there is something creepy about him. One thing about Polanski, as I recall from the biography I read, he came to America to visit a friend, liked California and wanted to come back. But he did not speak English. I think all the time he was in America he did not speak English well. That would have limited his ability to give lectures, etc., unless his students spoke French or Polish.

Pink Panther
04-01-2010, 09:36 PM
I wonder if the whole story about Mensa/High IQ is a similarly "blown up" bit that the media latched onto in order to make the story more sensational...How on earth would they know that his IQ is 150-160/as Einstein's and all the rest??? They never quote a source for any of this information...

Sleuthster
04-02-2010, 08:04 AM
I wonder if the whole story about Mensa/High IQ is a similarly "blown up" bit that the media latched onto in order to make the story more sensational...How on earth would they know that his IQ is 150-160/as Einstein's and all the rest??? They never quote a source for any of this information...

I read that his IQ is 135. When I heard all the mensa stuff I figured he was blowing it up to begin with and it gave me a good chuckle reading that he was a "genius" with his 135 IQ. He definately is not an Einstein by any means. I believe you need an IQ of 140 to be in Mensa or to be considered genious. Yes, he is definately in the top 5 percent in terms of intelligence. BTW, my IQ is 139. It doesnt make me feel superior and a killer.I think he is as dumb as a box of rocks. There is a saying that only a fool defends himself, especially on first degree murder charges.

Cymro
04-02-2010, 10:08 AM
Maybe but if you get a proper lawyer then you might get an adequate one ... closing down the avenue of appeal on the grounds of inadequate representation. While I don't think this is realistic in Alcala's case - he's arrogant, sure but he's done a good job as a lawyer to string it out as long as he has - that could have been his original thinking.

Filly
04-04-2010, 01:19 AM
Honestly I higly doubt that Polanski had much to do with Alcala outside teaching that class. I wonder also how many people took that class at the same time.

However, a friend of mine who is alittle older than me reminded me of the first person to interview Polanski after he fled the United States.

"I realize if I had KILLED somebody it wouldn't have had much appeal to the press........Everybody wants to f*ck young girls. Jdges want to f*ck young girls. Juries want to f*ck young girls.........."

Interesting read. Basically that's a huge cop out and there may be some people that do. However, it's illegal. It's wrong and if he's not a pedophile he's a cocky SOB who blames the victim and is trying to find strength in numbers with that interview. Ummmmm, as the adult weather stoned or not, and as the adult no matter weather the girl is "sophisticated" or not it's up to you to curb your da*n self and not act on it.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/dec/06/roman-polanski-martin-amis-interview

VespaElf
04-05-2010, 09:44 AM
The theory that Dr. George Hodel had anything to do with the murder of Elizabeth Short rests on some very shaky claims from Hodel's son, who sees things in photographs and evidence lockers that are demonstrably not there. There's a certain fascinating pathology of people who believe their parents were fiendish killers, against all evidence, and that's what I believe is going on with Steve Hodel. He has recently upped his claims to say that his father also killed James Ellroy's mother, and was the Zodiac Killer.

As for Polanski, there is no evidence that in 1968, when he was newly married to Sharon Tate, that he was inclined towards or practicing pedophilia. And there would be no reason for a former film student to be hanging around the set of a big budget Hollywood film like Rosemary's Baby. This supposed link sounds more like a wannabe bragging than any real connection.
O/T (sort of)but Hodel had me with his Father being the Dahlia killer UNTIL this Zodiac nonsense..............Now I wouldn't believe him if he told me the sky was blue...