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BeanE
04-01-2010, 01:42 PM
This thread is to flesh the theory of Tammi as the Third Party who arranged a couple to go get Gabe and put him into hiding.

Do we have anything that would rule Tammi out as the third party?

Do we have things that make Tammi any more or less likely to be the third party than anyone else?

With Tammi as the third party, then who is the couple she arranged to go get Gabe from Elizabeth and hide him?

kissdegirl
04-01-2010, 01:51 PM
Guess this fits nicely here too :D

http://www.kpho.com/download/2010/0203/22416309.pdf
"...[TS] has displayed extreme
measures at trying to obtain Gabriel Johnson..."


"On 12/29/09, I conducted a police interview with the
Smiths. When I asked how the Smiths were going to
handle the fact that Logan McQueary refused to sign
over his custodial rights. Tammi Smith stated she was
going to use her attorney's help to pressure Logan to
pay previous child support, current child support and be
responsible for visitation. Tammi stated due to the
above listed pressure the hope was that Logan would
release his custodial rights and the adoption could
proceed."

"Extreme measures at trying to obtain Gabriel..." She tried every way she could to get him, lying to police, witholding information from the police, forging documents, trying to create problems for Logan, changing jurisdictions, adopting EJ and Gabe, housing EJ in TN, calling the judge, threatening LM.

Seems to me, if LE doesn't corner her with the actual facts and catch her in a lie, she doesn't admit to anything, nor does she provide information on it until she is forced to backpedal.

I think indeed it's highly plausible and likely that she sent someone to EJ. All the evidence points that direction, even EJ's "you set this up!"

Now with the journal and per KG, directions to the park, and something about a third party and identifying the couple. EJ knew TS was desperate to have a baby, so she would have trusted her in that respect not to cough him up in the end.

MOO.

BeanE
04-01-2010, 02:46 PM
Anybody remember where the TayJay thing is about hiding Elizabeth and Gabe at a home of theirs in Tennessee? I'm drawing a blank about whether it's in a court document, NG transcript, or what.

TIA

Prof
04-01-2010, 03:00 PM
That bit about the house came from Tammi's mouth, in an interview and I believe it was NG
I'll take a quick look before I get back to work

I think TayJay are the most likely third party in this case just because they were so heaviliy involved in all aspects of this case from the get go -- they evidenced an unnatural and desperate need to control the whole situation

Prof
04-01-2010, 03:05 PM
BBM

JOSTAD: What kind of things were you hoping that police would look at on your computers? What information there would be relevant to the search?

SMITH: Well, OK, in — from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her — whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of — you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions.

Well, by the next day, after doing research throughout the next day, we realized, Oh, she cannot change jurisdictions. It`s illegal. So immediately, we started, you know, telling her, You need to come back, you can`t change jurisdictions.

And that`s when I called Janet Morris (ph) from Tennessee and said, Hey, she`s not coming back. I don`t know what to do. Can you please tell her what her legal rights are and get her back here? And that`s exactly what Janet did. And so the cool thing about that is our computer will corroborate that entire story.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../15/ng.01.html

kissdegirl
04-01-2010, 03:05 PM
Anybody remember where the TayJay thing is about hiding Elizabeth and Gabe at a home of theirs in Tennessee? I'm drawing a blank about whether it's in a court document, NG transcript, or what.

TIA

This is from the document I posted above...a statement from LE. There might be more in an interview, which with all the backpedaling, I'm sure there is. ;)

Tammi recalled making a telephone call to a
relative in order to determine if housing was available for
Elizabeth in the State of Tennessee (this occurred after
Elizabeth fled the State of Arizona)

ETA: posted at same time as Prof with the interview from Jostad.

Prof
04-01-2010, 03:24 PM
I wonder who Tammi called -- what relative -- an in-law?

BeanE
04-01-2010, 03:28 PM
This is from the document I posted above...a statement from LE. There might be more in an interview, which with all the backpedaling, I'm sure there is. ;)



ETA: posted at same time as Prof with the interview from Jostad.

That's the one I was looking for. And I even looked in that document lol. Thanks, kissde.

vjlaw
04-01-2010, 04:43 PM
Do we know who helped TS get H from her dad? A lawyer that helped her with that. Just a thought.

BeanE
04-01-2010, 06:10 PM
Do we know who helped TS get H from her dad? A lawyer that helped her with that. Just a thought.

Do you mean that the lawyer would be a half of the couple?

vjlaw
04-01-2010, 07:07 PM
Do you mean that the lawyer would be a half of the couple?

As someone who found the couple to hide Gabriel. EJ made a comment in one of the first court appearances that made me wonder about a lawyer being involved somewhere along the line. She was shaking her head and said it was legal. I just wondered at the time if a lawyer hadn't been involved leading her to believe it was legal. And since the PI said a third party she trusted, I wonder if someone she would trust would be in a professional status and not a personal status. H's dad has brought out how things happened in his situation. I just figured TS and JS must have had a lawyer they used to accomplish that. Hope this makes sense.

BeanE
04-01-2010, 07:21 PM
As someone who found the couple to hide Gabriel. EJ made a comment in one of the first court appearances that made me wonder about a lawyer being involved somewhere along the line. She was shaking her head and said it was legal. I just wondered at the time if a lawyer hadn't been involved leading her to believe it was legal. And since the PI said a third party she trusted, I wonder if someone she would trust would be in a professional status and not a personal status. H's dad has brought out how things happened in his situation. I just figured TS and JS must have had a lawyer they used to accomplish that. Hope this makes sense.

Okay this thread is Tammi as the third party arranging the couple. We have the poll thread to talk about who candidates might be for the third party, and then I broke out this thread for Tammi as the third party because she has the most votes.

You could probably see if the court documents are available for H and see if the attorney is on there to find out who the attorney was. You can start a thread for that person as the third party, but please don't use full names - only initials or first name.

danisisa
04-01-2010, 07:23 PM
TPS is soo in this. Just saw the 7 minute video...grrrr..They need get her jailed...

vjlaw
04-01-2010, 07:39 PM
Okay this thread is Tammi as the third party arranging the couple. We have the poll thread to talk about who candidates might be for the third party, and then I broke out this thread for Tammi as the third party because she has the most votes.

You could probably see if the court documents are available for H and see if the attorney is on there to find out who the attorney was. You can start a thread for that person as the third party, but please don't use full names - only initials or first name.

Sorry, the lawyer would be connected to Tammi and that is how I see her as the third party.

OneLove
04-01-2010, 11:28 PM
TPS is soo in this. Just saw the 7 minute video...grrrr..They need get her jailed...

What is the 7 minute video? Can you post a link?

Concernedmomarizona
04-01-2010, 11:31 PM
What is the 7 minute video? Can you post a link?

http://www.kpho.com/video/23026367/index.html

Litlred
04-01-2010, 11:57 PM
Does anyone know who the supposed attorney was that TPS had call EJ?

momtective
04-02-2010, 01:04 AM
I just watched the 7 min video...what can I say other than...Tammi's going to jail! :dance: for a very, very long time!

DairyGirl
04-02-2010, 01:25 AM
I just watched the video and in it he says that EJ has made a full admission to LE about giving the baby away. I heard she wasn't talking. I can't understand if she made an admission why the baby hasn't been recovered.

Litlred
04-02-2010, 02:01 AM
from the time line for 12/22/10

BBM

Timeline - Tuesday, December 22, 2009 through Friday, December 25, 2009 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The Smiths text Logan asking to get together the morning of December 23 to talk with Logan and his father. They say that they're afraid Elizabeth will be "gone forever" because she doesn't want to go to jail for kidnapping. They say that Elizabeth doesn't trust Logan or his father, and that the only way she'll come back is if the Smith's attorney faxes signed papers to her so she won't get in trouble, and Gabriel will be with the Smiths.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think papers were faxed. I think EJ had to pick them up at a certain time at the library the next day on the 23rd hence she was po'd at the babysitter for being late. I hope they know who this attorney is and subpoena his fax line information as well as the fax at the library. Per EJ's grandfather she told him that she went to the library when the babysitter was watching Gabriel.

If there is no fax machine for use at the library perhaps paperwork was sent via email as a PDF.

momtective
04-02-2010, 02:05 AM
Ken Gamble says in the video that Gabriel is most likely not in Texas, he could be in Texas but most likely not. So I'm going to venture a guess here and say he's probably in Tennessee or Louisiana. Either one would have been a very long car ride for an 8 month old, unless of course the stayed over in a hotel on the way back from SA.
The phone being found in Victoria still bothers me...I think Gabriel was chewing on it when EJ gave him to the couple and they didn't take it away from him because he would have pitched a fit and made a scene in the park and drawn attention. I think whoever had Gabriel traveled through Victoria on their way back home. I think they stopped in Victoria for gas, potty break...whatever... and pitched the phone at that time.
Here's a map showing a possible route through Victoria. If this route was taken I think it's is highly likely that Gabriel is in Louisiana. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=San+Antonio+Tx&daddr=Victoria,+Tx+to:Brazoria+Tx+to:Beaumont,+TX+ to:Slidell.+LA&geocode=Ffr5wAEdRBsh-imvDtAEr1hchjG8FqAQO-FWCA%3BFZOItwEdstc3-ik7rC0u22ZChjF9JmNvVg3i7g%3BFb8uuwEdJ7tN-ikHfO1JjURAhjGufaap_w2WZQ%3BFZ4TywEdqh5k-imdsY89GMs-hjEdzVrcPpyu_Q%3B&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=29.449165,-96.295166&sspn=2.109351,4.938354&ie=UTF8&z=7

BTW there are friends on TPS facebook in Louisiana.

Litlred
04-02-2010, 02:11 AM
Ken Gamble says in the video that Gabriel is most likely not in Texas, he could be in Texas but most likely not. So I'm going to venture a guess here and say he's probably in Tennessee or Louisiana. Either one would have been a very long car ride for an 8 month old, unless of course the stayed over in a hotel on the way back from SA.
The phone being found in Victoria still bothers me...I think Gabriel was chewing on it when EJ gave him to the couple and they didn't take it away from him because he would have pitched a fit and made a scene in the park and drawn attention. I think whoever had Gabriel traveled through Victoria on their way back home. I think they stopped in Victoria for gas, potty break...whatever... and pitched the phone at that time.
Here's a map showing a possible route through Victoria. If this route was taken I think it's is highly likely that Gabriel is in Louisiana. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=San+Antonio+Tx&daddr=Victoria,+Tx+to:Brazoria+Tx+to:Beaumont,+TX+ to:Slidell.+LA&geocode=Ffr5wAEdRBsh-imvDtAEr1hchjG8FqAQO-FWCA%3BFZOItwEdstc3-ik7rC0u22ZChjF9JmNvVg3i7g%3BFb8uuwEdJ7tN-ikHfO1JjURAhjGufaap_w2WZQ%3BFZ4TywEdqh5k-imdsY89GMs-hjEdzVrcPpyu_Q%3B&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=29.449165,-96.295166&sspn=2.109351,4.938354&ie=UTF8&z=7

BTW there are friends on TPS facebook in Louisiana.

Nice job MomT and I don't know what the laws are in Louisiana re: adoption but I do believe their laws there are much different than most states being Louisiana is under some kind of French law. I'm no expert on it but I recall something different about Louisiana and I will have to look it up.

danisisa
04-02-2010, 02:13 AM
Ken Gamble says in the video that Gabriel is most likely not in Texas, he could be in Texas but most likely not. So I'm going to venture a guess here and say he's probably in Tennessee or Louisiana. Either one would have been a very long car ride for an 8 month old, unless of course the stayed over in a hotel on the way back from SA.
The phone being found in Victoria still bothers me...I think Gabriel was chewing on it when EJ gave him to the couple and they didn't take it away from him because he would have pitched a fit and made a scene in the park and drawn attention. I think whoever had Gabriel traveled through Victoria on their way back home. I think they stopped in Victoria for gas, potty break...whatever... and pitched the phone at that time.
Here's a map showing a possible route through Victoria. If this route was taken I think it's is highly likely that Gabriel is in Louisiana. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=San+Antonio+Tx&daddr=Victoria,+Tx+to:Brazoria+Tx+to:Beaumont,+TX+ to:Slidell.+LA&geocode=Ffr5wAEdRBsh-imvDtAEr1hchjG8FqAQO-FWCA%3BFZOItwEdstc3-ik7rC0u22ZChjF9JmNvVg3i7g%3BFb8uuwEdJ7tN-ikHfO1JjURAhjGufaap_w2WZQ%3BFZ4TywEdqh5k-imdsY89GMs-hjEdzVrcPpyu_Q%3B&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=29.449165,-96.295166&sspn=2.109351,4.938354&ie=UTF8&z=7

BTW there are friends on TPS facebook in Louisiana.

Whoa!! Where was the phone found, or are talking about it pinging???

momtective
04-02-2010, 02:16 AM
Whoa!! Where was the phone found, or are talking about it pinging???

The phone was reportedly found in Victoria or it pinged in Victoria. I can't remember...I'll go look for a link I know it's in a thread here somewhere.

momtective
04-02-2010, 02:21 AM
Whoa!! Where was the phone found, or are talking about it pinging???

Here ya go danisisa...Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for & Info from Gabe's Family **No Discussion**

danisisa
04-02-2010, 03:07 AM
I bet TPS will be arrested by the end of Friday. The news cast probably has her freaked out!! Whoever has G better not do anything to harm him!!!

BeanE
04-02-2010, 07:31 AM
Nice job MomT and I don't know what the laws are in Louisiana re: adoption but I do believe their laws there are much different than most states being Louisiana is under some kind of French law. I'm no expert on it but I recall something different about Louisiana and I will have to look it up.

The PI doesn't believe there's any adoption, but that Gabe is being hidden. That's great news, because it makes it easier to find him - the playing field is smaller. All that's needed is to figure out the third party who arranged the couple, and then based on that, find the couple.

This thread is to explore Tammi as the third party who arranged the couple. So if Tammi is the third party, let's dig in and see who the couple could be.

Let's sleuth and bring Gabe home for his first birthday! What a great birthday present that would be for him :)

BeanE
04-02-2010, 07:36 AM
Ken Gamble says in the video that Gabriel is most likely not in Texas, he could be in Texas but most likely not. So I'm going to venture a guess here and say he's probably in Tennessee or Louisiana. Either one would have been a very long car ride for an 8 month old, unless of course the stayed over in a hotel on the way back from SA.
The phone being found in Victoria still bothers me...I think Gabriel was chewing on it when EJ gave him to the couple and they didn't take it away from him because he would have pitched a fit and made a scene in the park and drawn attention. I think whoever had Gabriel traveled through Victoria on their way back home. I think they stopped in Victoria for gas, potty break...whatever... and pitched the phone at that time.
Here's a map showing a possible route through Victoria. If this route was taken I think it's is highly likely that Gabriel is in Louisiana. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=San+Antonio+Tx&daddr=Victoria,+Tx+to:Brazoria+Tx+to:Beaumont,+TX+ to:Slidell.+LA&geocode=Ffr5wAEdRBsh-imvDtAEr1hchjG8FqAQO-FWCA%3BFZOItwEdstc3-ik7rC0u22ZChjF9JmNvVg3i7g%3BFb8uuwEdJ7tN-ikHfO1JjURAhjGufaap_w2WZQ%3BFZ4TywEdqh5k-imdsY89GMs-hjEdzVrcPpyu_Q%3B&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=29.449165,-96.295166&sspn=2.109351,4.938354&ie=UTF8&z=7

BTW there are friends on TPS facebook in Louisiana.

Great sleuthing, mom. I took the liberty of sending this to Logan and Gabe's family.

ShowboatMB
04-02-2010, 09:05 AM
except for the fact that police have said that Victoria is a false lead.

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/jan/11/lv_missingbaby_011210_81170/

Kim Hale, commander for the Tempe Police Department, reiterated that Victoria is not on their radar.

BeanE
04-02-2010, 09:12 AM
except for the fact that police have said that Victoria is a false lead.

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/jan/11/lv_missingbaby_011210_81170/

Kim Hale, commander for the Tempe Police Department, reiterated that Victoria is not on their radar.

Do you have a link for where LE say that Victoria is a false lead? I don't see that in that article.

What I see in that article, from way back on January 11, is that at that time, Victoria was not on LE's radar.

It certainly seems that a lot in this case escaped LE's radar. LE seems to have decided early on that Elizabeth had killed Gabe. I think it's crystal clear at this point that that influenced, and continues to some extent to influence, how proactively they conducted an investigation on the premise of Gabe possibly being alive.

ShowboatMB
04-02-2010, 09:34 AM
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/jan/12/lv_gabrielupdate_011310_81325/

BeanE
04-02-2010, 10:05 AM
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/jan/12/lv_gabrielupdate_011310_81325/

Again, there's nothing in there saying Victoria is a false lead.

kappy50
04-02-2010, 10:20 AM
We know JS was sure antsy when TS bought up "Victoria" in one of their tv interviews.
You know, if TS is involved, JS must know something...and if he did, wouldn't you think he would not risk possibly going to jail by coming forward with what he knows. Out of the light bulbs, he seems a little brighter...

DaneBramage
04-02-2010, 10:50 AM
There was mention of TPS timeshare in an article I just read. Anyone know where this timeshare is??

kissdegirl
04-02-2010, 11:01 AM
There was mention of TPS timeshare in an article I just read. Anyone know where this timeshare is??

Mexico on a beach is all I've heard.

ShowboatMB
04-02-2010, 11:06 AM
If there was the remote possibility that Victoria was in the picture, why would Tempe police.... which has always been open.... say that it's not on the radar. Every single question that was pitched by the media has been answered by them. When the East Valley Tribune reporter broke the story about a cell phone ping in Victoria, the Tempe PIO confirmed that it was in the court doccuments. He later said it was not on their radar. Why would the Lt. lie? Why would he say it's not on their radar when it's possible that she could have gone there?


It's tangents like this which distract from the case. It's tangents like 6 flags and a possible military connection and victoria which have been ruled out by legitimate media sources which divert attention from the key here.

Why this park? Who told her to go there? Which women's shelters/advocacy groups was EJ in contact with when she was in san antonio? Those are much more fruitful avenues to go down than random theories.

Yes, in court papers police said there was a cell phone ping in Victoria.
Yes, Tempe police confirmed that.
Yes, Tempe police said Victoria is no longer on their radar.

Why keep brining Victoria up?

kappy50
04-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Mexico on a beach is all I've heard.

I think it's Mexico Beach in Florida if I remember correctly....

kappy50
04-02-2010, 11:22 AM
interesting...in doing a mapqwest search....from san antonio to Mexico Beach is the same route the bus line would have taken.....again, mapqwest route maynot have been the actual bus route, I don't know....

BeanE
04-02-2010, 11:26 AM
If there was the remote possibility that Victoria was in the picture, why would Tempe police.... which has always been open.... say that it's not on the radar. Every single question that was pitched by the media has been answered by them. When the East Valley Tribune reporter broke the story about a cell phone ping in Victoria, the Tempe PIO confirmed that it was in the court doccuments. He later said it was not on their radar. Why would the Lt. lie? Why would he say it's not on their radar when it's possible that she could have gone there?


It's tangents like this which distract from the case. It's tangents like 6 flags and a possible military connection and victoria which have been ruled out by legitimate media sources which divert attention from the key here.

Why this park? Who told her to go there? Which women's shelters/advocacy groups was EJ in contact with when she was in san antonio? Those are much more fruitful avenues to go down than random theories.

Yes, in court papers police said there was a cell phone ping in Victoria.
Yes, Tempe police confirmed that.
Yes, Tempe police said Victoria is no longer on their radar.

Why keep brining Victoria up?

Just introduce the topics you'd like to discuss. We're all in this together. We all want the same thing - finding Gabe.

Let's sleuth!

The questions you ask -

I don't know why this park. It's convenient to the hotel. What else might be some reasons for this park?

This thread proposes that Tammi sent her there. The poll thread is discussing who the other candidates may be. We can start threads for other candidates as the third party to explore further who the couple may be based on that third party candidate.

The names of the women's organizations EJ contacted haven't been published, but I'm assuming Ken has at least some of them from the journal. He seemed to be designating types of organizations, which led me to think EJ had written them in the journal.

danisisa
04-02-2010, 01:52 PM
It is place with no cameras, it is less conspicuous, and almost a straight shot to the 410. So, the airport is off of 410, and other 3 other directions if they were driving....A long time ago and i cannot remember which article, but a woman commented on the articel saying she had called LE and said she saw peopl matching G's description and the couples at the San Antonio airport. From her perspective, they brushed it off....

I believe it was the San Antonio airport and it would probably take me all day to find it, if it is till available.

kissdegirl
04-02-2010, 02:09 PM
It is place with no cameras, it is less conspicuous, and almost a straight shot to the 410. So, the airport is off of 410, and other 3 other directions if they were driving....A long time ago and i cannot remember which article, but a woman commented on the articel saying she had called LE and said she saw peopl matching G's description and the couples at the San Antonio airport. From her perspective, they brushed it off....

I believe it was the San Antonio airport and it would probably take me all day to find it, if it is till available.

IIRC I think it was the Austin, TX airport. :waitasec:

danisisa
04-02-2010, 02:23 PM
Looking at the map, the 410 would take them to the Austin Aiport too..I think location was chosen because of the 410. So if someone can identify the car, there has to be a traffic camera on the 410.

momtective
04-02-2010, 02:53 PM
I don't think whoever left that park with Gabriel would have taken the Interstate. I think they would have stayed on the back highways that are less traveled. I think they would have avoided larger cities and interstates because of the cameras and the likelihood that an APB or BOLO might have been out for Gabriel. I think there is a very real possibility that Gabriel is in La. specifically around New Orleans, Slidell, or Pearl River La. with one of Tammi's friends or family members. At least I think he was there at one time but they might be moving him from place to place through a network of friends and family.

momtective
04-02-2010, 02:58 PM
I bet TPS will be arrested by the end of Friday. The news cast probably has her freaked out!! Whoever has G better not do anything to harm him!!!

I was so hoping it would happen today! Then she could set her happy arse in jail for Easter...I believe she is 100% behind all of this, she robbed Logan of his first Christmas with his son, his son's first steps, first teeth, possibly first words, and now his first Easter.:furious: Arrest her already!

kissdegirl
04-02-2010, 03:15 PM
I don't think whoever left that park with Gabriel would have taken the Interstate. I think they would have stayed on the back highways that are less traveled. I think they would have avoided larger cities and interstates because of the cameras and the likelihood that an APB or BOLO might have been out for Gabriel. I think there is a very real possibility that Gabriel is in La. specifically around New Orleans, Slidell, or Pearl River La. with one of Tammi's friends or family members. At least I think he was there at one time but they might be moving him from place to place through a network of friends and family.

You may be right, but no one would be looking for them, and their car, and their "disguised" baby? They might have done that just to get on the highways and boogie back home ASAP?

YellowSubmarine
04-02-2010, 03:43 PM
If there was the remote possibility that Victoria was in the picture, why would Tempe police.... which has always been open.... say that it's not on the radar. Every single question that was pitched by the media has been answered by them. When the East Valley Tribune reporter broke the story about a cell phone ping in Victoria, the Tempe PIO confirmed that it was in the court doccuments. He later said it was not on their radar. Why would the Lt. lie? Why would he say it's not on their radar when it's possible that she could have gone there?


It's tangents like this which distract from the case. It's tangents like 6 flags and a possible military connection and victoria which have been ruled out by legitimate media sources which divert attention from the key here.

Why this park? Who told her to go there? Which women's shelters/advocacy groups was EJ in contact with when she was in san antonio? Those are much more fruitful avenues to go down than random theories.

Yes, in court papers police said there was a cell phone ping in Victoria.
Yes, Tempe police confirmed that.
Yes, Tempe police said Victoria is no longer on their radar.

Why keep brining Victoria up?

I don't think LE lied. And I'm not going to count everything media says as a fact. Yes, LE said Victoria wasn't on their radar, doesn't mean something hasn't changed since then. Also, Mr. Gamble has found stuff LE hasn't, or hasn't briefed on. Victoria keeps being brought up because clues keep pointing us there. It's tangents and random theories such as this that have proved very fruitful here.

Prof
04-02-2010, 08:02 PM
The TayJay timeshare is in Mexico --according to her FB
She named the resort http://mayanresorts.com/mayan-palace/riviera-maya/
they stayed at in April/May of last year -- and provided a pic now gone
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211054&id=1585061919


I am not sure the significance of this, but I thought I would post this to avoid anyone spending time trying to map out the trip to Mexico Beach, FL or this resort in Playa del Carmen

Hope this helps

Kamille
04-02-2010, 09:12 PM
When you think about it, TS was the only person who admittedly spoke with EJ on the phone every day so it makes perfect sense that she is the third party because LE was aware that they were in contact so there were no red flags there on her phone records.

Litlred
04-02-2010, 11:34 PM
You could probably see if the court documents are available for H and see if the attorney is on there to find out who the attorney was.

Does anyone know which state the adoption for H took place? Was in TN or AZ? I'm leaning toward TN because TPS stated they had H since 4 months old but the adoption went through when H was 2 yrs old. If H is 4 now then would that put TPS back in Nashville at the time?

momtective
04-02-2010, 11:48 PM
One would think that TPS would be praising God all over her facebook for this fabulous news..."they know who has Gabriel and they expect to find him soon" but nada...not a peep out of her on her facebook about this wonderful news. :waitasec:

Prof
04-03-2010, 10:35 AM
TW, H's father has stated that the adoption was in TN Litlred

Litlred
04-03-2010, 10:45 AM
One would think that TPS would be praising God all over her facebook for this fabulous news..."they know who has Gabriel and they expect to find him soon" but nada...not a peep out of her on her facebook about this wonderful news. :waitasec:

Yep, I noticed she is just adding people as friends but nothing about the good news re: Gabriel. As another poster pointed out I think she is posting specific verses. I don't think they are messages to someone else but I think she is trying to justify something that she has done like the one she posted about helping the weak.

Litlred
04-03-2010, 11:21 AM
TW, H's father has stated that the adoption was in TN Litlred

I would like to find the notice that should have been published in a local legal publication.

YellowSubmarine
04-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Litlred, something tells me you better not hold your breath!

Litlred
04-03-2010, 02:16 PM
Litlred, something tells me you better not hold your breath!

Do you know if the adoption for H happened through JM and the Adoption Place? I have seen an article to this effect but is coming from a source that is unreliable. It is the same source that was blogging and bad mouthing LM.

kappy50
04-03-2010, 02:31 PM
Do you know if the adoption for H happened through JM and the Adoption Place? I have seen an article to this effect but is coming from a source that is unreliable. It is the same source that was blogging and bad mouthing LM.

Lil...in the important links documents line item # 21...might this be what you are looking for ????

kappy50
04-03-2010, 02:47 PM
Lil...in the important links documents line item # 21...might this be what you are looking for ????

I don't know if this document was for "H"'s adoption...but if so, it's listed mother and father are African-American ?? But yet this is supposedly Jack's granddaughter ??? Not trying to confuse anyone here or imply anything either...

BeanE
04-03-2010, 07:46 PM
Please see this post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Hand off of Gabriel at Raymond Rimkus Park

With Tammi as the third party, and that information, who could the two members of the couple be?

DairyGirl
04-03-2010, 08:11 PM
I don't know if this document was for "H"'s adoption...but if so, it's listed mother and father are African-American ?? But yet this is supposedly Jack's granddaughter ??? Not trying to confuse anyone here or imply anything either...

The adoption that JM handled had nothing to do with TPS and her adoption. She was involved with an adoption that was looked at because it was felt she hadn't done enough to find the birth father.

kappy50
04-03-2010, 08:43 PM
The adoption that JM handled had nothing to do with TPS and her adoption. She was involved with an adoption that was looked at because it was felt she hadn't done enough to find the birth father.


okie dokie!!!!!!!!!

TXHOPE
04-04-2010, 12:38 PM
:wave: Happy Easter Everyone! I've only been gone a couple of days and reading back so much progress has been made!! Exciting!

I keep thinking back on the foster parent info LE confiscated from TayJays house. Can't find the link...looked everywhere but I know I remember this being mentioned by LE. Let me know if I imagined this or if someone else rememebers this too . A foster parent would make perfect sense if TS was looking for someone to hide Gabriel. All it would take is someone who truly believed TS's carp about LM being abusive, drug addict and anything else she could make up to get these people to "rescue" Gabriel.

Litlred
04-04-2010, 12:49 PM
:wave: Happy Easter Everyone! I've only been gone a couple of days and reading back so much progress has been made!! Exciting!

I keep thinking back on the foster parent info LE confiscated from TayJays house. Can't find the link...looked everywhere but I know I remember this being mentioned by LE. Let me know if I imagined this or if someone else rememebers this too . A foster parent would make perfect sense if TS was looking for someone to hide Gabriel. All it would take is someone who truly believed TS's carp about LM being abusive, drug addict and anything else she could make up to get these people to "rescue" Gabriel.

Yes, and easy to pass as normal. People would think, oh just another foster child in their home.

kappy50
04-04-2010, 12:54 PM
Yes, and easy to pass as normal. People would think, oh just another foster child in their home.

Not a bad thought...but I just can't see EJ giving him to foster parents, especially, after her many years in foster homes. I think she wanted something more stable for Gabriel...or I sure hope she did! Plus, wouldn't a foster parent have to register a child to get funding by the state ??? Just a thought....

Litlred
04-04-2010, 12:59 PM
Not a bad thought...but I just can't see EJ giving him to foster parents, especially, after her many years in foster homes. I think she wanted something more stable for Gabriel...or I sure hope she did! Plus, wouldn't a foster parent have to register a child to get funding by the state ??? Just a thought....

She probably would not have known they were foster parents.

TXHOPE
04-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Not a bad thought...but I just can't see EJ giving him to foster parents, especially, after her many years in foster homes. I think she wanted something more stable for Gabriel...or I sure hope she did! Plus, wouldn't a foster parent have to register a child to get funding by the state ??? Just a thought....

EJ could of not known they were foster parents OR if TS is involved she could of told EJ that they would take care of him until she could get him. I think at this point EJ was so hell bent on starting her new life and not going back to AZ that she would be open to any plan.

kissdegirl
04-08-2010, 09:41 PM
Who could TS have contacted that would not only drive to SA to help her by getting Gabriel, but would also risk so much in doing so. I'm sure they felt it was hinky, but they probably had no idea just how deep they were about to get? What do you all think? If they were simply "fooled", I think they would have come forward. They havn't, so I think Ken is right, they have strong beliefs about Gabriel, and TS for that matter.

Ken says these people have strong beliefs about this child...so that is suggestive to me that it wasn't a monetary benefit to the couple (though that's a possible extra incentive). From everything that comes out about her, TS seems to leave behind a lot of unhappy people...so this suggests to me it is a more recent person in her life (someone since her and JS have been together), or a close relative. Their life together, on the surface, would appear to be religiously involved, so maybe it's a religious connect? I'm also thinking about how she would have contacted them. She could have passed off any phone calls to and from them easily as it was the Holidays. She could have used someone else's phone. Or, I guess she could have visited them in person, which unless she flew somewhere the week of Christmas herself, then the people would have come from AZ. Coming from AZ makes the most sense to me...she has family and religious connections there. Maybe someone who even got to meet little Gabriel while he was staying with the S's? Being close to her, means she can slip off and meet the person(s) who has him and get updates and make sure they are sticking with the plan.

Bear with me, I'm trying to brainstorm and figure out the most likely scenario so we have a better idea of where to look for this needle in the haystack ;) Feel free to poke and offer another likely scenario...enlighten me, and let's get sleuthing again.

kappy50
04-08-2010, 09:50 PM
Who could TS have contacted that would not only drive to SA to help her by getting Gabriel, but would also risk so much in doing so. I'm sure they felt it was hinky, but they probably had no idea just how deep they were about to get? What do you all think? If they were simply "fooled", I think they would have come forward. They havn't, so I think Ken is right, they have strong beliefs about Gabriel, and TS for that matter.

Ken says these people have strong beliefs about this child...so that is suggestive to me that it wasn't a monetary benefit to the couple (though that's a possible extra incentive). From everything that comes out about her, TS seems to leave behind a lot of unhappy people...so this suggests to me it is a more recent person in her life (someone since her and JS have been together), or a close relative. Their life together, on the surface, would appear to be religiously involved, so maybe it's a religious connect? I'm also thinking about how she would have contacted them. She could have passed off any phone calls to and from them easily as it was the Holidays. She could have used someone else's phone. Or, I guess she could have visited them in person, which unless she flew somewhere the week of Christmas herself, then the people would have come from AZ. Coming from AZ makes the most sense to me...she has family and religious connections there. Maybe someone who even got to meet little Gabriel while he was staying with the S's? Being close to her, means she can slip off and meet the person(s) who has him and get updates and make sure they are sticking with the plan.

Bear with me, I'm trying to brainstorm and figure out the most likely scenario so we have a better idea of where to look for this needle in the haystack ;) Feel free to poke and offer another likely scenario...enlighten me, and let's get sleuthing again.

I think Mr. Gamble's statement that they have strong belief's speaks a bunch!

kissdegirl
04-09-2010, 12:14 AM
We know through interviews that TS had custody paperwork filled out for Gabriel, prior to EJ leaving him at their home in early Dec, correct? Filled out, but not legal IIRC. These are what they showed CPS when they came looking for Gabriel after EJ gave him to the S's and called LE saying LM kidnapped him.

We know TS wrote CC's name on the paternity documents, she admitted this to Tempe LE as well as the media only once confronted.

From TayJay interview as TS was released from jail after starving and freezing for a whole day...:angel:
JS:...I’m gonna change my social security number [which TS admitted to trying to help with once her computer's were seized with a warrant]. I’m gonna, I’m gonna just become nobody. Okay? And , we’re saying, woah, woah, wait a minute, wait a minute, don’t do that. Let’s, let, let’s try this. Let’s see if maybe you can change jurisdiction, okay? And, we have a place in Tennessee, you can go there...

...what we were trying to do, is trying to get her to stop and come back. Or, or, or, at least get her to a place where we could, where somebody could go get her...

Let's try this, let's try that, try this, do that...nothing worked, so last resort, give him to someone we trust, go to FL and get settled, get your head on your shoulders and let this blow over. TS was desperate to get Gabriel, and IMO desperate to keep him away from LM, which I think she still is. I think more than EJ not wanting LM to win, I think TS doesn't want him to win...refer to the TS psych profile thread. Whoever they sent to get him, had to feel as passionately as TS does...IMO has to feel FOR TS. Someone who probably feels as strongly as her against LM...so someone else with a troubled past, one similar to TS'? Multiple marriages, court battles with father's, the "oh, he is abusive" thing to rally the troops (nevermind evidence to the contrary of course)?

Oh..and that elusive phone call from EJ to TS from jail, the one we've only heard TS talk about, where she says it is so rediculous that EJ says "You set this up!" Framed? I don't think so! Responsible? Not a doubt.

BeanE
04-09-2010, 03:42 PM
January 26

In Scottsdale on Monday, Tammi Smith revealed that Elizabeth Johnson called her from jail on Friday and tried to lure her into some type of confession.

"Basically, she just started yelling at me. She said, 'You're the one who set this up' and I said 'What? What are you talking about?' And I was really freaked out by that because I didn't think she would just tell a lie like that," Smith said.

Both Smith and Johnson have been caught in lies during the investigation, but Smith said appears Johnson is now trying to spread the blame.

"I said then, 'OK, tell me how I did this. How did I do it?' And she couldn't do it," said Smith.

She said Johnson slammed the phone down and hung up when she warned her that she will take the rap for anything that has happened or will happen to Gabriel.

"If I were her, I would really, really think twice about holding her tongue. I would tell the truth now and God will give grace for that," said Smith.

http://www.kpho.com/news/22340283/detail.html

This video talks about the phone call:
http://www.kpho.com/video/22349318/index.html

Also note in this video Logan talks about how Tammi and Jack contacted him asking him to go on a media tour with him with them apologizing to him for having slandered him. Love it.

Another video about the phone call starting at 1:10 w/interview of Tammi:
http://www.kpho.com/video/22340382/index.html

BeanE

TXHOPE
04-10-2010, 12:42 AM
This is a different video from azfamily:

Strange phone call from 'Baby Gabriel's' mom to Tammi Smith 2:27
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Strange-phone-call-from-Baby-Gabriels-mom-to-one-time-friend-82655967.html

"She said we helped her find the family" "So I asked her what's the phone number? What's the name? And she said I don't know."

Wow, this is really adding up. EJ didn't know the name or number, they used a code name. TS is throwing it in her face that she doesn't even know who the couple is and doesn't have any proof.

6angels
04-10-2010, 03:03 AM
Tammi Smith is as innocent as Casey Anthony IMO

Litlred
04-10-2010, 08:37 AM
This is a different video from azfamily:

Strange phone call from 'Baby Gabriel's' mom to Tammi Smith 2:27
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Strange-phone-call-from-Baby-Gabriels-mom-to-one-time-friend-82655967.html

"She said we helped her find the family" "So I asked her what's the phone number? What's the name? And she said I don't know."

Wow, this is really adding up. EJ didn't know the name or number, they used a code name. TS is throwing it in her face that she doesn't even know who the couple is and doesn't have any proof.

TPS "I'm like..why are you even calling me?" listen to the pitch in her voice. Look at her hands, then she immediately smiles. TPS is throwing this in EJs face.

kissdegirl
04-10-2010, 08:56 AM
I have thought that since that interview came out! TS directs all the conversations we've heard between her and EJ, so this is no exception. I have always thought EJ had no clue who the people were. Maybe TS should have asked "who sent them to meet you?"

momtective
04-10-2010, 09:09 AM
This is a different video from azfamily:

Strange phone call from 'Baby Gabriel's' mom to Tammi Smith 2:27
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Strange-phone-call-from-Baby-Gabriels-mom-to-one-time-friend-82655967.html

"She said we helped her find the family" "So I asked her what's the phone number? What's the name? And she said I don't know."

Wow, this is really adding up. EJ didn't know the name or number, they used a code name. TS is throwing it in her face that she doesn't even know who the couple is and doesn't have any proof.

I wish EJ would have said "You know I don't know their names, Bi@tch! But the code phrase was "Hosanna Hallelujah Taco!" "Shack & Tammi told me to tell you "green is better than blue!" :wink:

Litlred
04-10-2010, 09:54 AM
I wish EJ would have said "You know I don't know their names, Bi@tch! But the code phrase was "Hosanna Hallelujah Taco!" "Shack & Tammi told me to tell you "green is better than blue!" :wink:

MomT you are the best! :)

BeanE
04-10-2010, 10:04 AM
This is a different video from azfamily:

Strange phone call from 'Baby Gabriel's' mom to Tammi Smith 2:27
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Strange-phone-call-from-Baby-Gabriels-mom-to-one-time-friend-82655967.html

"She said we helped her find the family" "So I asked her what's the phone number? What's the name? And she said I don't know."

Wow, this is really adding up. EJ didn't know the name or number, they used a code name. TS is throwing it in her face that she doesn't even know who the couple is and doesn't have any proof.

You are on such a roll, Txhope. Good sleuthing.

BeanE
04-10-2010, 10:10 AM
I have thought that since that interview came out! TS directs all the conversations we've heard between her and EJ, so this is no exception. I have always thought EJ had no clue who the people were. Maybe TS should have asked "who sent them to meet you?"

I previously thought it was ludicrous that Elizabeth wouldn't know who the couple is, but it's all falling into place with the new info Ken released. One piece after the next that was previously confounding to me is now all making perfect sense.

I keep going back and reviewing and finding more and more connections I didn't see before. I'm trying to think of a way we could have a thread to do a complete case review, start to finish, and see what else we can pick up on.

First I have to finish pulling out quotes and facts and details from the articles and interviews in Ken's New Info thread, so we have a good easy-to-use reference to review against. I sure would appreciate some help with that :)

kissdegirl
04-10-2010, 10:18 AM
I would love to help, but I'm out for the day. I'll be here to help later. This is a big THANK YOU to Bean, because the button isn't ever enough!!!

YellowSubmarine
04-11-2010, 02:18 PM
She said, 'You're the one who set this up' and I said 'What? What are you talking about?' And I was really freaked out by that because I didn't think she would just tell a lie like that," Smith said ~~ Why would she be shocked about EJ lying? She had already said she realized that was all she'd been doing

"I said then, 'OK, tell me how I did this. How did I do it?' And she couldn't do it," said Smith. ~~ Just because TS kept EJ in the dark about the process, doesn't mean crap

She said Johnson slammed the phone down and hung up when she warned her that she will take the rap for anything that has happened or will happen to Gabriel. ~~ I'm sure TS told EJ if she talked, TS would deny it all and she had no proof

"She said we helped her find the family" "So I asked her what's the phone number? What's the name? And she said I don't know." ~~ Because she DIDN'T know!


RBM --

They need to get some friendly LE to sit down with EJ and explain they know she didn't do this herself and they'll go much easier on her if she talks. I think TS is a great manipulator and has convinced EJ no one would believe her. You know, TS being a "woman of God" and all.

The above statements have me completely convinced TS had a hand in this. Anyone who denies doing something before it's even known about must be guilty. It's just like when my 4 y/o tells me "I'm not doing anything wrong, but don't come in my room"

kissdegirl
04-11-2010, 04:19 PM
January 8, NG show title: Smiths Take Polygraphs in Missing Baby Gabriel Case

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network “In Session” in for Nancy Grace tonight.

I want to tell everybody, just to remind you. There is a criminal complaint out of the state of Arizona, and this is what Elizabeth Johnson is being held on in Florida. The charge is custodial interference.

Well, as part of that complaint there is a summary. Now this is not rumor, innuendo. This is on the criminal complaint and it says that the last-known whereabouts of Elizabeth Johnson was from her cell phone pings in Victoria, Texas, headed toward the Mexican border.

Now we do know she ended up in Florida. She is incarcerated in Florida. But
I`ve got to go out to Tammi Smith on that.

Talk to us again about your thoughts about Victoria, Texas. There`s not a date on this. And when do you say her cell phone pinged in Victoria?

T. SMITH: They said it was on the 27th. And that was the day that she sent the text that he was dead and that was the day that she wouldn`t speak to me verbally.

CASAREZ: OK. That`s the day that she did leave on the bus from San Antonio to Florida?

T. SMITH: Yes.

CASAREZ: So you`re saying she had to go to Victoria and come all the way back to San Antonio?

T. SMITH: Correct. She went two hours south and then came back up to get on a bus.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/08/ng.01.html

You know, suggesting a 2 hour drive and back to board a bus was a nice attempt at distracting everyone from SA. And, in the video where TS nudges JS in regards to Victoria...I said it before, and will say it again...to me, it was like a "see, it worked to throw them off" type nudge. TS is now protecting the people she sent to take Gabriel, and suggesting and throwing everyone off by spinning their wheels looking at this phantom Victoria, TX. It was a great spoke in the wheel. Now we know EJ couldn't have had the time to do that on the 27th. So I call more BS, TS.

BeanE
04-11-2010, 04:36 PM
From Lt. Mike Horn of Tempe PD in regards to convicted criminal Tammi Peters, who is also charged in this case, and her husband Jack Smith:

"We believe there was a plan in place, or being developed, for them eventually to take custody of baby Gabriel," said Lt. Mike Horn in a press conference Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/smith_arrest_020210

fran
04-11-2010, 05:01 PM
I spent most of yesterday going over this case. I have a whole theory on TS and JS and EJ, but I'm busy now so can't put it all down. Plus, I'm not sure I want to, because I have a feeling THEY read here.

Anyway, IMHO, TS is the key, IMHO. She was desparate and still is. She's lied and lied and lied and only spoke the SOMEWHAT truth when confronted with contradiction by LE.

Just remember, it's TS who has the 'tie' to SA, TX. SHE's the one who got certified by that company to do her trade by the organization in SA, TX. JS, IMHO, was lying on NG when he said he didn't know if TS had even been to SA her entire life. TS is the one who had the GPS. Does she still have one? What about TS's computers at work? What about her laptop? What about JS's puters? laptop?

IMHO, LE SHOULD confiscate ALL computers for TS and JS and cell phones and cell phone records for the past year. Business or no business records, phone, equipment. This is a CRIMINAL investigation and LE KNOWS TS obstructed custody of this child from his dad.

What we don't know, we don't know.

Ya know?
fran

BeanE
04-11-2010, 05:26 PM
I spent most of yesterday going over this case. I have a whole theory on TS and JS and EJ, but I'm busy now so can't put it all down. Plus, I'm not sure I want to, because I have a feeling THEY read here.

Anyway, IMHO, TS is the key, IMHO. She was desparate and still is. She's lied and lied and lied and only spoke the SOMEWHAT truth when confronted with contradiction by LE.

Just remember, it's TS who has the 'tie' to SA, TX. SHE's the one who got certified by that company to do her trade by the organization in SA, TX. JS, IMHO, was lying on NG when he said he didn't know if TS had even been to SA her entire life. TS is the one who had the GPS. Does she still have one? What about TS's computers at work? What about her laptop? What about JS's puters? laptop?

IMHO, LE SHOULD confiscate ALL computers for TS and JS and cell phones and cell phone records for the past year. Business or no business records, phone, equipment. This is a CRIMINAL investigation and LE KNOWS TS obstructed custody of this child from his dad.

What we don't know, we don't know.

Ya know?
fran

Hi fran. It's my understanding that TS went to school in CA and the certificate for that course was issued from the HQ which is located in SA. If anyone has a link to a credible source placing TS in SA, please post.

I don't know of TS having a GPS in relation to this case. EJ had a GPS, and that has been confirmed. If anyone has a link to a credible source regarding TPS having a GPS that relates to this case, please post.

TIA

fran
04-11-2010, 05:46 PM
Hi fran. It's my understanding that TS went to school in CA and the certificate for that course was issued from the HQ which is located in SA. If anyone has a link to a credible source placing TS in SA, please post.

I don't know of TS having a GPS in relation to this case. EJ had a GPS, and that has been confirmed. If anyone has a link to a credible source regarding TPS having a GPS that relates to this case, please post.

TIA

BeanE..............sorry, but I'm kind of in a rush. I'm supposed to be somewhere in 1/2 hour. Probably won't be back until tonite. Anyway, it was in a NG video,..........just sec............NG transcript 01/08/2010.....TS said something like she was going somewhere and needed to get there in a hurry, so she went to program her *gps* (she used brand name, sorry) and it was dead (without battery power) and she "remembered" when they met EJ at the park she had the 'gps lit up.' That's when she went on about why she hadn't told LE before.

IMO, that was part truth, part lie. She may have thought of using her gps and 'suddenly remembered they'd given it to EJ in the park, so she could get to SA.' that part is my theory....

BeanE, I just saw your thread about the PI's statements and such and someone is transcribing a video. I didn't know all what is there, but that fits into my theory.

I read somewhere yesterday that it was TS that was frantically looking for an attorney to help them change venue. When she found out she couldn't change venue (12/23?) she CLAIMS she tried to get EJ to come back. BS....the babysitter heard EJ on the phone or was it the beauty shop? and she said, 'so what am I supposed to do, come back?'

TS went to too much trouble to give up. IMHO, TS IS THE THIRD party and someone is holding Gabriel for her!

I'm ALMOST certain of it. Then after I read that the PI doesn't think he was 'adopted' it makes me believe even more that TS is behind the whole thing!

JMHO
fran

pittsburghgirl
04-11-2010, 06:19 PM
From Lt. Mike Horn of Tempe PD in regards to convicted criminal Tammi Peters, who is also charged in this case, and her husband Jack Smith:

"We believe there was a plan in place, or being developed, for them eventually to take custody of baby Gabriel," said Lt. Mike Horn in a press conference Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/smith_arrest_020210

Clearly, we are beginning to see why TS was indicted. And LE is thinking what many of us thought from the beginning: that there was no way TS was going to give up "her" baby. One dead giveaway is the mixture of truth and lies we are uncovering as the PI and LE are unraveling what happened.

And great post, Fran. ETA: If we are right, I am looking forward to TS spending many years in prison for what she's done.

Litlred
04-11-2010, 08:14 PM
I spent most of yesterday going over this case. I have a whole theory on TS and JS and EJ, but I'm busy now so can't put it all down. Plus, I'm not sure I want to, because I have a feeling THEY read here.

Anyway, IMHO, TS is the key, IMHO. She was desparate and still is. She's lied and lied and lied and only spoke the SOMEWHAT truth when confronted with contradiction by LE.

Just remember, it's TS who has the 'tie' to SA, TX. SHE's the one who got certified by that company to do her trade by the organization in SA, TX. JS, IMHO, was lying on NG when he said he didn't know if TS had even been to SA her entire life. TS is the one who had the GPS. Does she still have one? What about TS's computers at work? What about her laptop? What about JS's puters? laptop?

IMHO, LE SHOULD confiscate ALL computers for TS and JS and cell phones and cell phone records for the past year. Business or no business records, phone, equipment. This is a CRIMINAL investigation and LE KNOWS TS obstructed custody of this child from his dad.

What we don't know, we don't know.

Ya know?
fran

I agree. Per NG transcripts from 1/8/10 I see where TPS says that the GPS in EJ's car was a Garmin. How in the world would she know its a Garmin? You would have to be on top of the GPS unit in the dark to know it was a Garmin.

kissdegirl
04-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Going over some things in my head, and puting them down here for reference.

The babysitter AU said EJ was on the phone with a woman she called her grandmother and that the woman on the other end was yelling at EJ (maybe because EJ hired a babysitter, who knows). If this was indeed TS, then I think it says a lot for her character to rage over the phone like that. She has tried to come across as so innocent, and smiling in interviews, and laughing off the evidence that points to her involvement, but we got another taste of her anger after her release from jail when she gave LM the threat to "be watching". I wonder, if the handoff at the park occured, and the couple that took the baby were threatened after the fact not to come forward. Perhaps they have A LOT to lose if they were to give information that would find him (either turning him in themselves, or turning in TS). I imagine that TS would have some kind of evidence against them, or a threat that if they turn in Gabriel, she will turn them in and they will also be charged. I personally think these people are like-minded with TS. I think they feel they did the right thing, but also, if they've thought about giving him back, they are also fearful of the outcome of that decision. So many things could have been promised to this couple in the beginning, like money or being told they are "doing the right thing", but I wonder if they have been threatened since then? Hopefully, they have proof of this threat so they can turn it in with Gabriel today. :)

LaLaw2000
04-13-2010, 04:41 AM
Nice job MomT and I don't know what the laws are in Louisiana re: adoption but I do believe their laws there are much different than most states being Louisiana is under some kind of French law. I'm no expert on it but I recall something different about Louisiana and I will have to look it up.

BBM:
Litlred, I am from Louisiana and we are under the same criminal laws as the rest of the United States. The adoption laws here are also the same.

Louisiana is known for having some CIVIL archaic laws on the books that do stem from the old French law.

I'm sorry. I do know you are serious in your wondering about that, but it just isn't so.

LaLaw2000
04-13-2010, 04:53 AM
I agree. Per NG transcripts from 1/8/10 I see where TPS says that the GPS in EJ's car was a Garmin. How in the world would she know its a Garmin? You would have to be on top of the GPS unit in the dark to know it was a Garmin.

Maybe TPS knows it is a Garmin because she may have given it to her. I have always thought TPS was and is involved here.

It is just my opinion, but I still believe that TPS knows where Gabriel is and had plans to get him when/if this ever died down. I still think she will attempt it when Elizabeth goes to prison and after she herself (TPS) has served whatever time she will have to serve. Of course she and Jack would have to move unless she is on probation. TPS is like a dog with a bone, IMO, and will not give up on having Gabriel even after years have passed. Let's say TPS has to serve 5 years. She would get out with the 'good time law' (serving one day for 2 days credit if on good behavior) in 2.5 years. Let's say that she was placed on probation for an additional 2.5 years. Gabriel would still be a child when she could legally move away and get him.

*I think Gabriel is alive.

kappy50
04-13-2010, 06:39 AM
BeanE..............sorry, but I'm kind of in a rush. I'm supposed to be somewhere in 1/2 hour. Probably won't be back until tonite. Anyway, it was in a NG video,..........just sec............NG transcript 01/08/2010.....TS said something like she was going somewhere and needed to get there in a hurry, so she went to program her *gps* (she used brand name, sorry) and it was dead (without battery power) and she "remembered" when they met EJ at the park she had the 'gps lit up.' That's when she went on about why she hadn't told LE before.

IMO, that was part truth, part lie. She may have thought of using her gps and 'suddenly remembered they'd given it to EJ in the park, so she could get to SA.' that part is my theory....

BeanE, I just saw your thread about the PI's statements and such and someone is transcribing a video. I didn't know all what is there, but that fits into my theory.

I read somewhere yesterday that it was TS that was frantically looking for an attorney to help them change venue. When she found out she couldn't change venue (12/23?) she CLAIMS she tried to get EJ to come back. BS....the babysitter heard EJ on the phone or was it the beauty shop? and she said, 'so what am I supposed to do, come back?'

TS went to too much trouble to give up. IMHO, TS IS THE THIRD party and someone is holding Gabriel for her!

I'm ALMOST certain of it. Then after I read that the PI doesn't think he was 'adopted' it makes me believe even more that TS is behind the whole thing!

JMHO
fran

I'm not good at finding the NG trans. But at one time EJ/TS met in a "park"..When did this happen ???

fran
04-13-2010, 08:57 AM
I'm not good at finding the NG trans. But at one time EJ/TS met in a "park"..When did this happen ???

T&J had Gabriel from 12/9 to 12/18 (or 12/17?). EJ told them she wanted to take Gabriel for a visit with his dad. They met her at a park, allegedly a park EJ determined. They did the baby exchange there.

Allegedly, this is when EJ took off for SA. TS claims the next thing they know, they get an email from EJ that she's sorry, she's on the run and she and Gabriel are ok.

Recall, Logan was due a visit on 12/18, and when he went to EJ's trailer home he found out she had disappeared with the baby.

HTH
fran

BeanE
04-13-2010, 09:26 AM
I'm not good at finding the NG trans. But at one time EJ/TS met in a "park"..When did this happen ???

Do you mean where those pics in the park were taken, kappy?

BeanE
04-13-2010, 09:32 AM
T&J had Gabriel from 12/9 to 12/18 (or 12/17?). EJ told them she wanted to take Gabriel for a visit with his dad. They met her at a park, allegedly a park EJ determined. They did the baby exchange there.

Allegedly, this is when EJ took off for SA. TS claims the next thing they know, they get an email from EJ that she's sorry, she's on the run and she and Gabriel are ok.

Recall, Logan was due a visit on 12/18, and when he went to EJ's trailer home he found out she had disappeared with the baby.

HTH
fran

- until 12/18
- They met at a church parking lot designated by EJ for the exchange.
- Logan's visit was due 12/20. That's the day he went to get Gabe at the trailer and found them gone.

We have a case calendar and inside the link for each event is the event description. In there you'll find links to the supporting source reference for each event. It's a handy way to grab the dates as well as quickly grab some details.

This will take you to the month of December:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&c=6&week=&month=12&year=2009

Prof
04-13-2010, 01:09 PM
I wish EJ would have said "You know I don't know their names, Bi@tch! But the code phrase was "Hosanna Hallelujah Taco!" "Shack & Tammi told me to tell you "green is better than blue!" :wink:


lol MomT -- for all we know EJ might have said something like this to Tammi
As soon as Tammi released this story about the EJ phone call I assumed most of it was fabricated - Tammi still needing to be in control

Tammi threw out yet another threat in that story -- Tammi has threatened both Logan and EJ publically, on video -- I am still amazed by rewatching the uncut video of her leaving jail and telling Logan that he better "be watching"
Watching what, Tammi? more coded internet posts?


Someone needs more creed in her deed

kappy50
04-13-2010, 01:24 PM
lol MomT -- for all we know EJ might have said something like this to Tammi
As soon as Tammi released this story about the EJ phone call I assumed most of it was fabricated - Tammi still needing to be in control

Tammi threw out yet another threat in that story -- Tammi has threatened both Logan and EJ publically, on video -- I am still amazed by rewatching the uncut video of her leaving jail and telling Logan that he better "be watching"
Watching what, Tammi? more coded internet posts?


Someone needs more creed in her deed

The fact of the matter that she makes threats like this concerns me. Because if she is the third party....that definately concerns me....

artsy1
04-26-2010, 12:50 PM
I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread to develop a profile for the couple in the park who took Gabe. It's based totally on the assumption that EJ was telling the truth about giving Gabe to a couple that a trusted 3rd party set up. All ideas about who the couple are, how they got involved, etc. to try to figure out who they are are welcome.


My assumptions here are based on this belief: that EJ had intended to set herself up in SA long enough to get LM's parental rights terminated so that she could give Gabe to TayJay. When whatever happened changed those plans, TPS sent a couple to SA to pick up Gabe so that EJ could leave town.


1) I think the couple has to be someone TPS knows and trusts (and figures wouldn't turn her in) - most likely a fellow church member (are there couples in her church that she seems particularly close to?) or family.

2) I believe they live in the Scottsdale, AZ vacinity, since I think TPS would have needed to talk to them in person about going to get Gabe. And if this is the case, then Gabe is probably back in AZ.

3) I think the couple arrived in San Antonio the day before they met EJ in the park. If so, I would canvas hotels near the park for a couple who stayed only 1 night and fit the description given by EJ.

4) I suspect the couple would have driven out instead of trying to find a last minute flight during the Christmas holiday. If so, I would canvas the gas stations and rest stops along the same route EJ took for any sightings.

5) If the couple are members of TPS's church, I would question the congregation about a couple who either: a) suddenly showed up with a baby or b) stopped coming to church (or possibly don't come as a couple anymore).

6) I would guess that if this couple had an active social life before Christmas, that they are now more reclusive.

7) With the way TPS shows she needs to be in control of all situations, I would believe that she is somehow keeping tabs on the couple and on Gabe (ie spying on them at parks, grocery stores, etc. perhaps).

8) Because I believe this arrangement was supposed to be short term, but has turned long term with additional expenses for a baby's needs, does there seem to be some a lot of money going from TPS's bank accounts as either cash or to the same people again and again? Or, if the church supporting members who gave a false story about why they needed money?

I had more assumptions earlier today, but I've forgotten them (still haven't had coffee yet this morning!) and will post as I remember. In the meantime, please post your own assumptions. We may just hit on a piece of the puzzle that LM is missing in order to bring his son home to him!

Let's find this couple and bring Gabriel home where he belongs!

danisisa
05-05-2010, 03:51 PM
I was thinking about the most recent court images, and something stuck out at me. TS's hair has faded brown on the ends. So I thought more about all the interviews and her hair was really dark in those interviews. Well, one thing, I know alot about hair color, is when you bleach your hair blond, and then dye it again, it will fade. So, i noticed her hair got shorter and shorter. Where the faded brown is would be equivalent to the five months worth of growth. What if the couple was wearing sunglasses, TS could easily change her voice and appearance. EJ would never know. What if JS stayed at the hotel or vehicle with H when the hand off took place. Maybe, TS made EJ think there was another couple involved, when in fact it was her. TS and JS were in the entertainment business, so I have no doubt that they can change their apprearances with facial addons and makeup.

I don't want to post anymore about this because of G's safety.

kappy50
05-05-2010, 03:58 PM
I was thinking about the most recent court images, and something stuck out at me. TS's hair has faded brown on the ends. So I thought more about all the interviews and her hair was really dark in those interviews. Well, one thing, I know alot about hair color, is when you bleach your hair blond, and then dye it again, it will fade. So, i noticed her hair got shorter and shorter. Where the faded brown is would be equivalent to the five months worth of growth. What if the couple was wearing sunglasses, TS could easily change her voice and appearance. EJ would never know. What if JS stayed at the hotel or vehicle with H when the hand off took place. Maybe, TS made EJ think there was another couple involved, when in fact it was her. TS and JS were in the entertainment business, so I have no doubt that they can change their apprearances with facial addons and makeup.

I don't want to post anymore about this because of G's safety.

D...good points. But I can remember, and I'd have to go back to the case calendar....that the Smith's house was searched on the 27th and TS was there. Now, that's not to say, if one flew in they flew home, which would seem a short flight...Not knowing what time the search was it would be hard to say....someone else could have followed in a car with GB...

fran
05-05-2010, 04:03 PM
D...good points. But I can remember, and I'd have to go back to the case calendar....that the Smith's house was searched on the 27th and TS was there. Now, that's not to say, if one flew in they flew home, which would seem a short flight...Not knowing what time the search was it would be hard to say....someone else could have followed in a car with GB...

Ahaa! I forgot about the search of 12/27. Good point!

fran

fran
05-05-2010, 04:09 PM
I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread to develop a profile for the couple in the park who took Gabe. It's based totally on the assumption that EJ was telling the truth about giving Gabe to a couple that a trusted 3rd party set up. All ideas about who the couple are, how they got involved, etc. to try to figure out who they are are welcome.


My assumptions here are based on this belief: that EJ had intended to set herself up in SA long enough to get LM's parental rights terminated so that she could give Gabe to TayJay. When whatever happened changed those plans, TPS sent a couple to SA to pick up Gabe so that EJ could leave town.


1) I think the couple has to be someone TPS knows and trusts (and figures wouldn't turn her in) - most likely a fellow church member (are there couples in her church that she seems particularly close to?) or family.

2) I believe they live in the Scottsdale, AZ vacinity, since I think TPS would have needed to talk to them in person about going to get Gabe. And if this is the case, then Gabe is probably back in AZ.

3) I think the couple arrived in San Antonio the day before they met EJ in the park. If so, I would canvas hotels near the park for a couple who stayed only 1 night and fit the description given by EJ.

4) I suspect the couple would have driven out instead of trying to find a last minute flight during the Christmas holiday. If so, I would canvas the gas stations and rest stops along the same route EJ took for any sightings.

5) If the couple are members of TPS's church, I would question the congregation about a couple who either: a) suddenly showed up with a baby or b) stopped coming to church (or possibly don't come as a couple anymore).

6) I would guess that if this couple had an active social life before Christmas, that they are now more reclusive.

7) With the way TPS shows she needs to be in control of all situations, I would believe that she is somehow keeping tabs on the couple and on Gabe (ie spying on them at parks, grocery stores, etc. perhaps).

8) Because I believe this arrangement was supposed to be short term, but has turned long term with additional expenses for a baby's needs, does there seem to be some a lot of money going from TPS's bank accounts as either cash or to the same people again and again? Or, if the church supporting members who gave a false story about why they needed money?

I had more assumptions earlier today, but I've forgotten them (still haven't had coffee yet this morning!) and will post as I remember. In the meantime, please post your own assumptions. We may just hit on a piece of the puzzle that LM is missing in order to bring his son home to him!

Let's find this couple and bring Gabriel home where he belongs!


I was wondering the same thing about money outflows. ;)

Another thing I'd like to add is,......IF there was some way to find out WHO the notary was that allegedly notarized the signatures on the document EJ gave T & J, giving them custody of Gabriel. LE said it was notarized.

IF there was some way to talk to the notary and see if they've used her services before. MAYBE T & J think THAT document COULD be their key to EVENTUALLY gaining permanent custody of Gabriel. But anyway, speaking to anyone that has had previous dealings with this couple COULD produce an unknown contact.

JMHO
fran

artsy1
05-05-2010, 04:11 PM
I was thinking about the most recent court images, and something stuck out at me. TS's hair has faded brown on the ends. So I thought more about all the interviews and her hair was really dark in those interviews. Well, one thing, I know alot about hair color, is when you bleach your hair blond, and then dye it again, it will fade. So, i noticed her hair got shorter and shorter. Where the faded brown is would be equivalent to the five months worth of growth. What if the couple was wearing sunglasses, TS could easily change her voice and appearance. EJ would never know. What if JS stayed at the hotel or vehicle with H when the hand off took place. Maybe, TS made EJ think there was another couple involved, when in fact it was her. TS and JS were in the entertainment business, so I have no doubt that they can change their apprearances with facial addons and makeup.

I don't want to post anymore about this because of G's safety.


There's no way to say this without sounding rude. Having said that, do you think that TS can REALLY fit this description?

snip
"The female is described as slender, approximately 5’6” with blonde hair that fell below the shoulder."

http://www.babygabrielfoundation.org/story.html

OneLove
05-05-2010, 04:33 PM
There's no way to say this without sounding rude. Having said that, do you think that TS can REALLY fit this description?

snip
"The female is described as slender, approximately 5’6” with blonde hair that fell below the shoulder."

http://www.babygabrielfoundation.org/story.html

:thumb: Good call !

danisisa
05-05-2010, 05:26 PM
If EJ has been telling the full truth about everything now...I have some issues still.

1. What did she do with her laptop so LE can search for clues.
2. WHere and when did she buy her disposable phones. They could then get the phone numbers and records for them.
3. Composite sketch of couple and are they comparing it to TS's friends on Facebook.
4. WHo the HG is.
5. What did the car seat look like that G was picked up in.
6. What did she do after the couple left with G...DId she look away from them. There is only one parking lot.
7. Was the couple wearing any identifiable jewlery, ie..wedding rings.
8. DId the couple have an accent.
9. How did G react toward them...Was he scared, or did it seem like he knew them.
10. Did Ej give her phone to them and have the locations of where it pinged been checked for people stopping that fit that MO.

BeanE
05-05-2010, 05:29 PM
Reminder:

As much as we may want to name and/or sleuth people, we can not, unless they are persons of interest or suspects or charged persons in this case, as named by LE or mainstream media.

If you wish to sleuth people off the board, you are, of course, welcome to. But they simply can not be named and sleuthed here, simply because they happen to be a friend or relative of one of the players in this case (e.g. Elizabeth, Tammi, Jack).

If you are suspicious of someone, please keep it to yourself. Save yourself a timeout.

Thank you -
BeanE

artsy1
05-05-2010, 05:53 PM
:crazy: Gosh, I guess I'd better reread posts before I quote them. I don't remember seeing anyone other than TayJay referred to in the post I quoted. I totally missed anything else! :crazy:

BeanE
05-05-2010, 05:56 PM
If EJ has been telling the full truth about everything now...I have some issues still.

8. DId the couple have an accent.


Ken said the couple didn't have accents.

CathyinTexas
05-05-2010, 09:45 PM
BBM

JOSTAD: What kind of things were you hoping that police would look at on your computers? What information there would be relevant to the search?

SMITH: Well, OK, in — from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her — whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of — you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions.

Well, by the next day, after doing research throughout the next day, we realized, Oh, she cannot change jurisdictions. It`s illegal. So immediately, we started, you know, telling her, You need to come back, you can`t change jurisdictions.

And that`s when I called Janet Morris (ph) from Tennessee and said, Hey, she`s not coming back. I don`t know what to do. Can you please tell her what her legal rights are and get her back here? And that`s exactly what Janet did. And so the cool thing about that is our computer will corroborate that entire story.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../15/ng.01.html

There is something odd to me that she publically insisted that the police search her computers. She said they would not find anything. Maybe she used public computers to search, or a friend's, or had another computer and then hid it.

kappy50
05-05-2010, 09:58 PM
There is something odd to me that she publically insisted that the police search her computers. She said they would not find anything. Maybe she used public computers to search, or a friend's, or had another computer and then hid it.

My question would be DID JM ever really contact EJ or is this just a TS blabbering... now I know FBI/LE contacted JM...but based on what...a phone call to EJ or a phone call from EJ ? Or a 3 way call from TS/EJ to JM ??? Just thinking...

Litlred
05-05-2010, 10:43 PM
There is something odd to me that she publically insisted that the police search her computers. She said they would not find anything. Maybe she used public computers to search, or a friend's, or had another computer and then hid it.

She could have used EJ's computer as well. That way if it was ever found guess who did the searching? The blame would all fall on EJ once again.

kissdegirl
05-05-2010, 10:49 PM
She could have used EJ's computer as well. That way if it was ever found guess who did the searching? The blame would all fall on EJ once again.

Perfect! Love your mind Litlred. TS has always been conniving and covering her tracks, so of course she would think of this! Wasn't there an interview where she wanted LE to search the public library for EJ's usage? Maybe they went together under EJ's account, or she just wanted to throw them off. Either way, if it was a private computer or the library...it would probably have been under EJ's name so the blame would fall on her.

Litlred
05-05-2010, 11:03 PM
Perfect! Love your mind Litlred. TS has always been conniving and covering her tracks, so of course she would think of this! Wasn't there an interview where she wanted LE to search the public library for EJ's usage? Maybe they went together under EJ's account, or she just wanted to throw them off. Either way, if it was a private computer or the library...it would probably have been under EJ's name so the blame would fall on her.

Your right they could have gone to the library together but used EJ's account.
I wonder whose idea it was to get rid of EJ's computer. EJ seemed pretty hooked on her computer. I bet it was harder for her to part with it than with Gabriel. I'm hoping LE found out the truth of what she did with the computer. I saw an ad from a person looking to buy a GPS around the time EJ was going to take off and the same person was then selling a lap top a month later in January. I think I read something where TPS said EJ sold her laptop. I will have to find out where I saw that.

kissdegirl
05-05-2010, 11:11 PM
Your right they could have gone to the library together but used EJ's account.
I wonder whose idea it was to get rid of EJ's computer. EJ seemed pretty hooked on her computer. I bet it was harder for her to part with it than with Gabriel. I'm hoping LE found out the truth of what she did with the computer. I saw an ad from a person looking to buy a GPS around the time EJ was going to take off and the same person was then selling a lap top a month later in January. I think I read something where TPS said EJ sold her laptop. I will have to find out where I saw that.

Absolutely, and turn it in to LE.

noopy
05-06-2010, 12:12 AM
If EJ has been telling the full truth about everything now...I have some issues still.

1. What did she do with her laptop so LE can search for clues.
2. WHere and when did she buy her disposable phones. They could then get the phone numbers and records for them.
3. Composite sketch of couple and are they comparing it to TS's friends on Facebook.
4. WHo the HG is.
5. What did the car seat look like that G was picked up in.
6. What did she do after the couple left with G...DId she look away from them. There is only one parking lot.
7. Was the couple wearing any identifiable jewlery, ie..wedding rings.
8. DId the couple have an accent.
9. How did G react toward them...Was he scared, or did it seem like he knew them.
10. Did Ej give her phone to them and have the locations of where it pinged been checked for people stopping that fit that MO.

Great list... IMO, she has not answered those questions truthfully, if at all (esp 1-4). Otherwise, we wouldn't be at a dead end right now.

kappy50
05-06-2010, 06:45 AM
In reading TS's statement to LE, I saw a sentence that struck me odd..In the Probable Cause section there was a mention that TS researched the topic of adult adoption in hopes to adopting EJ and GB. WHY adopt EJ ????

DairyGirl
05-06-2010, 07:24 AM
In reading TS's statement to LE, I saw a sentence that struck me odd..In the Probable Cause section there was a mention that TS researched the topic of adult adoption in hopes to adopting EJ and GB. WHY adopt EJ ????

To get her baby! With EJ as her daughter then Gabriel would be her grandson and look how easy it was for them to adopt Jack's granddaughter.

kappy50
05-09-2010, 03:08 PM
First off, I want to thank Bean E for all the work she did on the NG thread for us to follow. I know there was a lot of time and effort put into this...I am reading over the NG transcripts that B..provided for us. Post # 28 and 29 to me are compelling...Post # 28 staes the Smith basically had to beg for anything, even a bottle..and the rest of what JS said, made no sense to me att all...Post # 29...Now Tammie has to go to a quiet place "The BABY'S ROOM"...now is that room H's and she's sharing it with GB...where she state "And I'm actually in the baby's room and all HIS STUFF was put in the crib here "...and then goes on to talk about a new car seat...but it's possible she thought LM was going to knuckle under their demands and she put the cart before the horse so to speak...I just find this all very odd...Did they set up a nursery in the 9 days GB was there, or was this nursery in place already...not necessarily for GB...maybe too much Lifetime I watch where you see these desperate mothers who have nurseries set up for years waiting on that one mment....

kappy50
05-10-2010, 07:21 AM
Tammie needs to read these NG transcripts...there is so much in there is is telling...not good for TS/JS and what's crazy about it, this information comes from their mouths. Curious if information such as this that is public knowledge, could it be used against her in court ??? If so, she's in big trouble...

MO3Bcares
05-10-2010, 03:31 PM
Jailhouse phone call released May 4, 2010:

Elizabeth: Yeah you set it all up they were your friends.
Tammi: No they weren't! Then what's their names if they're my friends?
Elizabeth: I don't know you set it all up in San Antonio.
Tammi: I talked about San Antonio? Elizabeth I don't know anyone in San Antonio, they already did the research and found I don't know anyone in San Antonio. There are no dots that connect me to you in San Antonio.
Elizabeth: Then it was Jack's friends like you said.

Jack on Nancy Grace:

JACK SMITH: … but we have — we have focused our life for the last few days since all this happened. We`re on the phone all day, trying to find out as much information. We have contacts. We have sources. Ain`t that cool? We have sources in San Antonio with a radio station and — radio and telephone stations there.
:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

kappy50
05-12-2010, 08:33 AM
Based on what AZ has said, that this case could go on for a year and the fact TS could get 2-7.5 years....why would she scarifice her family for all that. I do believe she is the
3rd party, because everything TS does, she thinks it's not illegal. But why not fess up, make things somewhat better for herself possibly and help us locate GB.

kappy50
05-12-2010, 02:30 PM
rut- ro...based on what AZ just said, that TS's public statements could come into play, and JS could be called as a witness...I would have to believe they might be in a whole heap of trouble!!!

YellowSubmarine
05-12-2010, 02:59 PM
We have sources in San Antonio with a radio station and — radio and telephone stations there.

His statement right there proves they know people in SA. My question -- what the heck is a "telephone station"? Is he referring to someone at a cell phone store? Maybe CRICKET?

BeanE
05-12-2010, 03:03 PM
rut- ro...based on what AZ just said, that TS's public statements could come into play, and JS could be called as a witness...I would have to believe they might be in a whole heap of trouble!!!

I would say they've been in a whole heap of trouble - and that heap is growing in leaps and bounds. :croc: :nerves:

BeanE
05-12-2010, 03:06 PM
His statement right there proves they know people in SA. My question -- what the heck is a "telephone station"? Is he referring to someone at a cell phone store? Maybe CRICKET?

I think he meant television. He was a tad nervous talking about people he knows in San Antonio. I wonder why? :angel2:

YellowSubmarine
05-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Snipped post by Soulscape from 1/2/10:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - GABRIEL JOHNSON last seen San Antonio, TX


Also check out posts #3, 4, 7 & 13 -- probably more of interest, that's all I read for now
Forensic Astrology - GABRIEL JOHNSON last seen San Antonio, TX - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

fran
05-15-2010, 02:47 PM
I wonder why? :confused:, when I enter on 'BING', 'Tammi Smith, San Antonio Tx, I come up with a listing for her 'healing waters' in Arizona? :crazy:

It doesn't happen when I use {google} but under 'bing' it does.

I know, she doesn't know anyone in SA. Oh, except at radio and telephone stations. Oh.......NOT to forget a 'PRESENT' friend.
:waitasec:

just sayin'
fran

http://www.bing.com/search?q=tammi+smith+san+antonio+tx&FORM=HPNTDF

tammi smith san antonio tx

HEALING WATERS HEALTH AND WELLNESS CLINIC MEDICAL CREDENTIALS

YellowSubmarine
05-15-2010, 07:19 PM
I wonder why? :confused:, when I enter on 'BING', 'Tammi Smith, San Antonio Tx, I come up with a listing for her 'healing waters' in Arizona? :crazy:

It doesn't happen when I use {google} but under 'bing' it does.

I know, she doesn't know anyone in SA. Oh, except at radio and telephone stations. Oh.......NOT to forget a 'PRESENT' friend.
:waitasec:

just sayin'
fran

http://www.bing.com/search?q=tammi+smith+san+antonio+tx&FORM=HPNTDF

tammi smith san antonio tx

HEALING WATERS HEALTH AND WELLNESS CLINIC MEDICAL CREDENTIALS

Well, I know the International Assoc for Colon Hydrotherapy is in SA -- coincidentally, right down the road from Homegates. Maybe that's why it pops up. She did "claim" to never have been to that office, but . . . .

LiveLaughLuv
05-17-2010, 09:53 AM
Smith is the woman who almost adopted baby Gabriel before he disappeared. She's been charged with trying to forge documents to gain custody of the child.

In the phone call, Smith accuses Johnson of destroying her life. The two spoke via jailhouse phone back in January. In turn, Elizabeth Johnson suggests Tammi Smith and her husband Jack arranged for a couple to take baby Gabriel. [Press play to listen]

Elizabeth: Yeah you set it all up they were your friends.
Tammi: No they weren't! Then what's their names if they're my friends?
Elizabeth: I don't know you set it all up in San Antonio.
Tammi: I talked about San Antonio? Elizabeth I don't know anyone in San Antonio, they already did the research and found I don't know anyone in San Antonio. There are no dots that connect me to you in San Antonio.
Elizabeth: Then it was Jack's friends like you said.

From day one, Smith has denied knowing about Gabriel's whereabouts. But Johnson says it was Smith's advice that landed her in jail.

Elizabeth: You told me to go to a shelter and pretend I was being beat.
Tammi: No, I told you instead of running and hiding and changing your identity go to a shelter don't just go run and hide your identity. What was illegal?
Elizabeth: From the very beginning it was illegal, lying about the paternity of the fatherhood, putting your cousin's name.
Tammi: In my mind that wasn't anything illegal. That was me helping you fill out your paperwork.

During the entire conversation, Smith never admits to having a couple pick up the baby at a San Antonio park Dec. 27.

Tammi: Just so you know we will be suing you.
Elizabeth: For what? What did I do to you?
Tammi: For ruining our lives.
Elizabeth: You ruined my life!
Tammi: I didn't tell you any lies.
Elizabeth: Tou ruined my life from the very beginning. I trusted you I believed you. You are totally not the person you said you were.
Tammi: Elizabeth you have destroyed our lives!

Johnson is back in her jail cell after spending over a week in a psychiatric unit for refusing to eat. As for Logan McQueary, he is still hopeful that his son is alive.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/missing-baby-jailhouse-phone-call-5-3-2010