Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[jbowman55]

I want to talk about something here that is not adding up to me.

Police reported that at 1:20AM a text from Hannahs phone was sent saying I am lost at 14th and Wertland.
Hannah Graham was seen at the downtown mall area 1:08AM on camera.
She was still walking toward where Tempo was and had to get in and sit down so lets say 1:15AM she's actually inside the tempo sitting. (The Tempo restaurant owner says she was not but the police say otherwise)
*Jesse Matthew admits to buying Hannah Graham drinks when he comes to police station asking for a lawyer*
It is reported by an eye witness that Hannah was at the Tempo bar seen with JM till around 1:45 AM

Did Jesse Matthew send a text at 1:20AM? Or did Hannah send a text at 1:20 AM? Did Hannah type that text out earlier and just accidentally hit send later?

This is a mystery.

I thought that the time that text was sent was later revised to be 1:06 am rather than 1:20. I'll try to find where I read that.

Here's the Washington Post article that states that friends said her last text was at 1:06 am:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b10cc-44b1-11e4-b437-1a7368204804_story.html

but then others put her on video in front of Sal's on the DTM at 1:06 am, which is where WG comes into the picture:

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/17/police-unknown-man-seen-walking-behind-missing-uva-student-hannah-graham/

So who knows what time anything happened?

It does seem, though, that if a text was sent to friends at 1:20 am, that would have been during the time that Hannah and JM were together on the DTM. He paid for drinks at Tempo at 1:10 am, and the door-person at Tempo saw the two of them leave together at about 1:45 am.

Did they spend 35 minutes together out on the Mall?

 

[ThinkHard]

I've never really understood the bedwetting part, either.....the other two make sense in releasing pent up rage as a child and according to wiki, regaining a sense of power for the child that has been humiliated repeatedly and harshly, I'd imagine, by the parents. The only thing I can think of is a subconscious rebellion to an over controlling, micro managing parent but read on wikipedia where the bed wetting part has been discredited. I think most psychologists like Helen Morrison, who has interviewed and studied serial killers extensively believe that it is a perfect storm between heredity and environment that creates them. What all the factors are, I don't know but plan to look further into it.

I know in cases of child sexual abuse, children can start wetting their beds, even if they had previously stopped for years. It can either be a form of regression due to trauma, or it can be seen as a means to make themselves repulsive to the abuser (on more of a subconscious level).

I can see there being overlap to psychopathology in childhood and abuse. Either because the psychopathology is trauma induced, or a combination, in which the abusive parent also has some psychopathology which they have genetically passed onto their child, and now they are also abusing them because the parent is ill themselves.

 

[human]

True that environment can cause psychological disturbance, but infants left in the crib, only fed and changed, would not necessarily grow up to be sociopathic killers, some may actually turn out ok. I think we all would hope there is some mechanism to retrain the brain of those with such deviant behaviors as JM. However, his type behavior occurs globally, across countries and cultures which indicates hard wired disposition rather than acquired through improper development. Development in which deviance occurs due more to nurture than nature results in behaviors that are more likely to be altered. And these can still be challenge to alter. I think if we asked many psychologists who work with individuals like JM they would tell us the chance of altering their thinking and behavior patterns are likely nil with whatever interventions tried. But I do think there are many who develop abnormal patterns of thinking and behavior due to genetic disposition of the brain coupled with early development problems, like abusive and chaotic home environments, that do have a much better chance of turning out ok and sooner than later with good intervention.

So far there is no intervention for Reactive Attachment Disorder.

There is Maslow's Herarchy of needs, Catherine Bateson's interactions between mother and child re language, eye contact, interpreting signals,,Harlow's monkeys, the orphanage studies of years ago.

There is much info about the brain development of children.


There is info now in genetic memory.

There is a brain scientist that has a lot of psychopaths in his background. He does brian scans and found he should be a klller, but because of a loving upbringing , he is not.

I do not know of one single serial killer that was raised in good circumstances. Sorry, not Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy, as some people try to claim,

Every serial killer has a terrible background from hell.

 

[Phoebeb]

I want to talk about something here that is not adding up to me.

Police reported that at 1:20AM a text from Hannahs phone was sent saying I am lost at 14th and Wertland.
Hannah Graham was seen at the downtown mall area 1:08AM on camera.
She was still walking toward where Tempo was and had to get in and sit down so lets say 1:15AM she's actually inside the tempo sitting. (The Tempo restaurant owner says she was not but the police say otherwise)
*Jesse Matthew admits to buying Hannah Graham drinks when he comes to police station asking for a lawyer*
It is reported by an eye witness that Hannah was at the Tempo bar seen with JM till around 1:45 AM

Did Jesse Matthew send a text at 1:20AM? Or did Hannah send a text at 1:20 AM? Did Hannah type that text out earlier and just accidentally hit send later?

This is a mystery.

I have always thought that Hannah typed it earlier but didn't send until 1:20. If JM had her phone and texted posing as Hannah at 1:20, I don't think he would have known to say anything about Wertland, but I don't know.
Total wild conjecture here, but what if Hannah had "met" JM or someone on one of the many phone apps we have discussed- (I forget the names, but yik yak, or askme or any of the anonymous apps). Could he or someone else convince her to meet up at O'Leary's (she seemed to look for someone there and then moved on)or the mall somewhere? Maybe that's why Hannah was walking with purpose, because of a pre-arranged invitation, but didn't want to tell her friends because she was embarrassed to say that's what she was doing, then sent the misleading text to friends? Idk, just trying to think of scenarios that put her walking with purpose, at the mall at 1:00 am that night.

 

[Phoebeb]

I thought that the time that text was sent was later revised to be 1:06 am rather than 1:20. I'll try to find where I read that.

Maybe she was embarrassed to say she had veered so far off course and thought she was heading back home (got turned around at McGrady's) or thought she could catch a transit bus from mall to her apmt once she realize she had hit the mall area, decided then to walk to end for transit bus to get back to her apmt easily.

 

[SteveP]

I can see JLM possibly pleading guilty if it is to take DP off the table in exchange for LWOP in the charges he will probably face both in Hannah's and Morgan's cases, depending on how strong the evidence against him may be, though my gut feeling is he will plead NG and force the state to try him on both, but I truly can't see LE approaching and initiating the offer of taking DP away in return for admission of knowledge of and location of other victims missing, UNLESS they have physical evidence that ties him to them, and as far as we know as of now, they do not. I can't imagine JLM approaching and saying. "oh, btw, I killed all these other girls too and I'll tell you where Alexis and Samantha and who knows who else are if you don't put a needle in my arm". Ain't gonna happen. JMO

 

[Fascinated1]

WASHINGTON AND LEE UNIVERSITY
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
PUBLIC SAFETY NOTICE
On September 15, 2014, the Department of Public Safety received information from the Lexington Police Department that they had received a report of the possible sighting of a male subject identified as a person of interest in the abduction and murder of a Virginia Tech student, several years ago, who was visiting the UVA campus. More information about the original case, including a sketch of the individual, can be found herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Dana_Harrington.
According to the information received from Lexington PD, the report they received came several days after the sighting of the individual had occurred and they have not been in contact with any individuals matching that description or sketch.
If you believe you observe this individual, or would like to report a crime or any suspicious activity, please contact the W&L Department of Public Safety or the Lexington Police Department immediately at the following numbers…
W&L DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY – (540) 458-8999
LEXINGTON POLICE DEPARTMENT – 911 or (540) 463-9177
GENERAL SAFETY AND SECURITY TIPS:
• AVOID WALKING ALONE AT NIGHT. CONTACT PUBLIC SAFETY (540-458-8999) FOR AN ESCORT OR USE TRAVELLER (540-458-8900 OR TRAVELLER.WLU.EDU)
• ALWAYS WALK IN WELL-LIT, HIGHLY VISIBLE AREAS. STAY IN FAMILIAR AREAS AND AVOID SHORTCUTS WHEN POSSIBLE.
• BE ALERT AND AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS.
• REPORT SUSPICIOUS PERSONS OR ACTIVITY TO PUBLIC SAFETY IMMEDIATELY
TO REPORT AN INCIDENT:
Contact Public Safety at (540) 458-8999
Contact Lexington Police at (540) 463-9177
QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS?
CONTACT ETHAN KIPNES, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY


I was going back through the very early web sleuths postings just to look at everything based on what we know now and ran across this. It will be very interesting to see if it will ever be confirmed this was actually jlm. Lexington is roughly an hours drive from cville and right down 64- which is close to where body was dumped. He could have killed, left body, and left town easily. It's also unconfirmed but it appears he missed practice sat morning with his high school team.

Also kudos to you all because WS had these cases linked from the beginning. Wow.

 

[ksj3]

BBM

If you are saying here what I think you're saying, I would very gently suggest that you think through the possibility that you might be correct, that your instinct is trying to tell you something, and then decide whether you should pick up the phone or not. If it's nothing, then most likely that can be proven. Just my two cents.

They know who WG is, supposedly. It would be easy for you to say something along the lines of what you just told us and then add,"If WG is John Doe (whatever your guy's name is that you think he might possibly be), please be aware he and JM know one another from this activity."

 

[bestill]

Is it normal for an alleged serial killer to stay quiet and uncooperative? I've not done any research on the behavior of a SK and I'm using the term "normal" loosely here.

 

[CvilleMother]

Early on, I remember reading that she had been using snapchat for her texts. I don't use snapchat, but was assuming part of the issue has to do with the way the app works. I assume that they also have to jump through additional legal hoops to access the logs from snapchat as well as from he cell provider,

I want to talk about something here that is not adding up to me.

Police reported that at 1:20AM a text from Hannahs phone was sent saying I am lost at 14th and Wertland.
Hannah Graham was seen at the downtown mall area 1:08AM on camera.
She was still walking toward where Tempo was and had to get in and sit down so lets say 1:15AM she's actually inside the tempo sitting. (The Tempo restaurant owner says she was not but the police say otherwise)
*Jesse Matthew admits to buying Hannah Graham drinks when he comes to police station asking for a lawyer*
It is reported by an eye witness that Hannah was at the Tempo bar seen with JM till around 1:45 AM

Did Jesse Matthew send a text at 1:20AM? Or did Hannah send a text at 1:20 AM? Did Hannah type that text out earlier and just accidentally hit send later?

This is a mystery.

 

[Foxfire]

I can see JLM possibly pleading guilty if it is to take DP off the table in exchange for LWOP in both the charges he will probably face In Hannah's and Morgan's cases (though my gut feeling is he will plead NG and force the state to try him on both), but I truly can't see LE approaching and initiating the offer of taking DP away in return for admission of knowledge of and location of other victims missing, UNLESS they have physical evidence that ties him to them, and as far as we know as of now, they do not. I can't imagine JLM approaching and saying. "oh, btw, I killed all these other girls too and I'll tell you where Alexis and Samantha and who knows who else are if you don't put a needle in my arm". Ain't gonna happen. JMO

Respectfully disagree, SteveP... Green river serial killer Gary Ridgeway, and TX serial killer Henry Lucas, are only two examples of plea agreements where the perps gave up his their unknown victims identities and remains locations in exchange for LWOP vs the death penalty.. Imo, this is a scenario that may very well play out in JM's prosecution for many reasons...primarily due to the expense of trials and automatic appeals, as well as closing multiple unsolved missing/murdered person's cold cases, but most importantly to give the families a semblance of closure....or as Gil Harrington stated, "accommodation"...

 

[SteveP]

Respectfully disagree, SteveP... Green river serial killer Gary Ridgeway, and TX serial killer Henry Lucas, are only two examples of plea agreements where the perps gave up his their unknown victims identities and remains locations in exchange for LWOP vs the death penalty.. Imo, this is a scenario that may very well play out in JM's prosecution for many reasons...primarily due to the expense of trials and automatic appeals, as well as closing multiple unsolved missing/murdered person's cold cases, but most importantly to give the families a semblance of closure....or as Gil Harrington stated, "accommodation"...

Foxfire, respectfully, I'm not sure you understood exactly what I was trying to say, or maybe I didn't say it well. If LE has physical evidence that may tie him to other unsolved crimes, he MAY take an offer of LWOP in exchange for info, but if they have no evidence and only an idea that he may have killed others, and btw, I believe that he has, then all he has to say is "nope, those are the only ones". Even you have quoted sources in previous posts that stated that SKs sometimes commit suicide to prevent their victims from being found. I just can't see him offering up confessions of others that LE has no evidence he was associated with. JMO

ETA....Maybe it's just me, but I would rather be put to death than live the rest of my life in prison.

 

[Foxfire]

Is it normal for an alleged serial killer to stay quiet and uncooperative? I've not done any research on the behavior of a SK and I'm using the term "normal" loosely here.

Bestill, serial killers seldom confess..but, imo JM may plea, provided he is offered the option, depending upon his fear of the death penalty/lethal injection. Imo, if JM agrees to a plea and confesses, it will not be due to a conscious or empathy for his victims or their families, but will be all about him...

JM, has been very uncooperative over the first thirty five days of the search in hopes that she would not be found. Now that HG's remains have been located and identified. JM may have a change of heart.. jmo

 

[bestill]

Bestill, serial killers seldom confess..but, imo JM may plea depending upon his fear of the death penalty/lethal injection. Imo, if JM agrees to a plea and confesses, it will not be due to empathy for his victims, but will be all about him... jmo

Definitely about him and saving his life, not about remorse or empathy for others. I pray there's enough evidence that he fears the DP and will confess.

 

[Elley Mae]

Foxfire, respectfully, I'm not sure you understood exactly what I was trying to say, or maybe I didn't say it well. If LE has physical evidence that may tie him to other unsolved crimes, he MAY take an offer of LWOP in exchange for info, but if they have no evidence and only an idea that he may have killed others, and btw, I believe that he has, then all he has to say is "nope, those are the only ones". Even you have quoted sources in previous posts that stated that SKs sometimes commit suicide to prevent their victims from being found. I just can't see him offering up confessions of others that LE has no evidence he was associated with. JMO

ETA....Maybe it's just me, but I would rather be put to death than live the rest of my life in prison.

Absolutely agree to this.

 

[ThinkHard]

Not to belabor the nature vs. nuture, genetics vs. environment, there's something I read awhile back that I think could explain a lot of it. It's of course a simplistic overview, but it was “Genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger.” Not necessarily true in all cases but it's my opinion that it's true in a majority of cases.

http://blog.pathway.com/genetics-loads-the-gun-and-environment-pulls-the-trigger-dr-francis-collins/

I like the quote but its oversimplified. Because environment interaction on biological factors can far exceed what we consider "nurture" from parent influence on bio factors. For example certain studies have begun to show, a theory in autism for example, in which part of the neurobiological variation that can occur, basically does not allow the body to detox as effectively as others. So what's in air, water, food etc, that an be harmful, but detoxes out in a normal person, basically accumulates in the body of someone who lacks the means to detox better. Theory is that the accumulation of toxins can further impact function and behavior.

 

[Seajay]

RIP Hannah. So sorry it ended this way. Hopefully Hannah is the LAST victim of this perp, that he's taken off the streets for good, never to hurt another woman.

I believe there are more than HG, MH and Ffx. Time will tell but I think HG helped take a serial killer off the streets. IMO

 

[SolVol]

I find it kinda odd that they added Morgan to this statement. Is that an admittion of guilt?

Very observant, Heroine.

No mention of the Fairfax rape victim ...or the Murphy family.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Very observant, Heroine.

No mention of the Fairfax rape victim ...or the Murphy family.

I would guess they were asked not to mention Fairfax due to there being an indictment there that is open and ongoing, and probably were asked not to mention AM because that would only throw more gas on the whole JM/RAT/AM issue.

LE doesnt want to muddy the waters here. Take one case at a time, then put it all together.

 

[Fascinated1]

Interesting that LE mentioned they checked location where MH was found. That was on 9/17. . Just 4 miles in the other direction and they could have found her. . In no way disrespecting LE-it's just so sad to think how close they were. I think civille PD was exceptional throughout.