Laura Babcock: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich charged w/Murder in the First Degree #1

[Tamarind]

In all honesty, I'll take the four members of LB's family, her friend's say so and Det. K's word on it. I assume they knew LB better than any strangers who are sleuthing and reading a few lines from articles.

Regardless of who it may have been, the new beau LB wanted to take to her uncle wedding, DM now has bigger issues to be concerned with. Such as the possibility of being granted the title of serial killer and spending the rest of his natural life locked away in prison. JMO.

As I have pointed out, the original source was a friend of a friend of LB's .
Her family have made comments based on the charges and the information supplied by SL. LB's mother said she found DM polite etc and said they were friends. How is this stating anything negative that is confirmable about DM?

Police do go on what they are told (hearsay). Charges are laid based on what they are told ie) criminal harassment. FWIW HTH

 

[Tamarind]

I may be silly, but I have confidence that LE would verify what they have been told prior to going on national television and spouting hearsay in a murder investigation.

I wish I shared your confidence sillybilly, but lets be fair many charges are laid based on presumption not fact. If charges were based on fact there would be no need for a trial. JMO

 

[Kamille]

In all honesty, I'll take the four members of LB's family, her friend's say so and Det. K's word on it. I assume they knew LB better than any strangers who are sleuthing and reading a few lines from articles.

Regardless of who it may have been, the new beau LB wanted to take to her uncle wedding, DM now has bigger issues to be concerned with. Such as the possibility of being granted the title of serial killer and spending the rest of his natural life locked away in prison. JMO.

I agree Swedie. With the present charges as they are laid out, had the information about last contacts and concerns of LB's family and friends not been ignored and/or dismissed back in 2012, we may not be looking at the possibility of a serial killer title and two other people may still be alive today.

So I choose not to dismiss their feelings, thoughts and opinions on the suspects in this case. If LB's mother made comments about DM being polite and that she thought he was just a friend to her daughter after DM was charged with murder, I can understand why she would make these comments. Disbelief that the person she met could be responsible for her daughter's death. Pretty sure we'd all feel that way. And I don't suppose LB felt the need to tell her mother who she was having sex with. Most young women probably wouldn't.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

In all honesty, I'll take the four members of LB's family, her friend's say so and Det. K's word on it. I assume they knew LB better than any strangers who are sleuthing and reading a few lines from articles.

Regardless of who it may have been, the new beau LB wanted to take to her uncle wedding, DM now has bigger issues to be concerned with. Such as the possibility of being granted the title of serial killer and spending the rest of his natural life locked away in prison. JMO.

Don't forget, the Crown has requested a direct indictment of DM and MS in LB's case, so LE knows a lot about what went down.

<modsnip>

 

[Tamarind]

I agree Swedie. With the present charges as they are laid out, had the information about last contacts and concerns of LB's family and friends not been ignored and/or dismissed back in 2012, we may not be looking at the possibility of a serial killer title and two other people may still be alive today.

So I choose not to dismiss their feelings, thoughts and opinions on the suspects in this case.

I doubt we know their thoughts and which feelings are you not wanting to dismiss? TIA

If LB's mother made comments about DM being polite and that she thought he was just a friend to her daughter after DM was charged with murder, I can understand why she would make these comments. Disbelief that the person she met could be responsible for her daughter's death. Pretty sure we'd all feel that way. And I don't suppose LB felt the need to tell her mother who she was having sex with. Most young women probably wouldn't.

A mother wouldn't necessarily need to be told anything to 'know', mothers instinctively know when their grown children have a certain type of affection for someone. IMO. Why would LB not have told her mother that DM was more than a friend especially if some people are believing she told her uncle that the photographer was her boyfriend?

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

It's probably tunnel vision to decide that the only one who can say whether DM and LB were in a relationship or not is her mother.

Lots of people gave feedback that DM and LB were involved.

 

[Sillybilly]

Why would LB not have told her mother that DM was more than a friend especially if some people are believing she told her uncle that the photographer was her boyfriend?

<rsbm>

We don't know why LB wouldn't have told her mother. Perhaps their relationship was not what some think constitutes a typical mother/daughter relationship. Why do some people disbelieve TR when he has said LB told him her bf was a photographer, wealthy, and a pilot?

 

[Tamarind]

<rsbm>

We don't know why LB wouldn't have told her mother. Perhaps their relationship was not what some think constitutes a typical mother/daughter relationship. Why do some people disbelieve TR when he has said LB told him her bf was a photographer, wealthy, and a pilot?

And we don't know that there was anything to tell either. If, as her mother says, they were friends, then that is what they were. DM isn't a photographer imo, if he is then we all are, as I imagine most people have taken photographs at some point. I believe the SG pics were from 2005, I just don't see how DM can be called a photographer because he had taken photos some six or more years before he ever clapped eyes on LB. JMO

For all we know LB may have been hoping that DM would become more than a friend. Maybe she was trying to set up a possible 'date'. We have no idea. DM obviously believed CN was his girlfriend, so what LB thought is really out of the realms of our knowledge IMO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

And we don't know that there was anything to tell either. If, as her mother says, they were friends, then that is what they were. DM isn't a photographer imo, if he is then we all are, as I imagine most people have taken photographs at some point. I believe the SG pics were from 2005, I just don't see how DM can be called a photographer because he had taken photos some six or more years before he ever clapped eyes on LB. JMO

For all we know LB may have been hoping that DM would become more than a friend. Maybe she was trying to set up a possible 'date'. We have no idea. DM obviously believed CN was his girlfriend, so what LB thought is really out of the realms of our knowledge IMO.

Police say a Toronto woman who went missing almost a year ago was "romantically linked" to Dellen Millard

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/missing-w...tionship-with-suspect-in-bosma-case-1.1310375

"romantically" not "Platonically" linked

Obviously they were more than friends.

 

[Kamille]

Ryan and the Babcocks have been asking as many questions as they've been answering over the past several months after Laura's name was linked to Millard. She was in a relationship with him and phone records show she called him several times last July.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news...missing_womans_uncle_looking_for_answers.html

 

[swedie]

<rsbm>

We don't know why LB wouldn't have told her mother. Perhaps their relationship was not what some think constitutes a typical mother/daughter relationship. Why do some people disbelieve TR when he has said LB told him her bf was a photographer, wealthy, and a pilot?

Agreed SB. Or she never told her mother they were bf/gf because she hadn't spoken to her mother since the relationship advanced? LB's mother had met DM a couple times, but that was when she was living at home. When was the last time mother and daughter spoke? TR and LB spoke just a couple weeks before she was murdered.

It only makes sense had she been referring someone else as her new beau, who was wealthy, etc., etc., this new beau would have cared more about her and helped her when she was down and out. It was DM she referred to but little did she know he was only using her for sex, giving her false promises and lying to her. He did travel shortly after her murder and I could see him telling her he was going to take her, that is what she relayed to her uncle. DM didn't give a rat's hiney that LB was down and out as long as he got from her what he wanted. We know how frugality ran in the family, DM figured why pay for sex when he could BS his way through and get it for free.

I have to believe what comes directly from the horse's mouth and their intuition. TR and LB's family and friend(s), they knew her best. ALL MOO.

Ryan hadn&#8217;t seen his niece for a couple years, but he spoke to her on the phone just weeks before she disappeared.

And during that conversation, his niece talked about a new boyfriend, a man Ryan now believes was Millard.

&#8220;My wife and I both think it was Dellen she was talking about because she referred to him being a pilot and a photographer,&#8221; Ryan said. &#8220;She also mentioned he was wealthy.&#8221;

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/10/search-continues-on-farm-of-tim-bosmas-accused-killer

Ryan: &#8220;The last time I spoke to Laura was two weeks prior to her disappearance and it was in regards to her bringing a gentleman to my wife&#8217;s, my wedding, and my wife and I both think that it was Dellen (Millard) she was talking about, just I believe referring to him as a pilot, photographer and wealthy, and what not so we didn&#8217;t want her to come with a brand new boyfriend to the wedding, just, it didn&#8217;t seem right to me.

http://www.chch.com/toronto-police-still-searching-millard-farm/

&#8220;She said he&#8217;d be taking her travelling for a little bit. She was impressed that he was a good photographer and had money and a good-looking fella,&#8221; Ryan said about the new flame he now believes was Millard.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

 

[Kamille]

Back in late June, 2012, Ms. Babcock&#8217;s friends and family began to worry after losing touch with the University of Toronto English and drama graduate. Mr. Lerner, who had remained a close friend after they broke up early that year, filed a missing person&#8217;s report and began distributing flyers and interviewing her friends.

In the process, Mr. Lerner found out that Ms. Babcock, who struggled with mental-health issues, had been using drugs and working as an escort while bouncing between friends&#8217; couches after moving out of her parents&#8217; house because of a disagreement. He also learned that she had begun a sexual relationship with Mr. Millard, a long-time friend, at some point in the first half of the year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think what is really sad about the LB story is that SL obviously still held a torch for her...no doubt he would have taken her back...

OTOH I think it is because of SL that LE probably cracked that case open: the iPad.

In 2011 the tech community was abuzz with the info that Apple devices track wherever they go and then report back to Apple with all the gps info every 12 hours, for marketing purposes. Apple wants to see where their devices are used so they can better service them.

e.g., http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/0...tion-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/

All LE has to know is that Apple does collect this data, and then go and request it...

I wonder if SL could have requested his personal iPad data from Apple directly, if he explained the situation. Companies are willing to report to LE but I am unsure if they are willing to honour requests from private individuals.

The iPad could have tracked LB to DM's door.

I think there is a lot more digital info in that case as peculiarly, the charge is first degree and the evidence so certain a direct indictment has been requested.

How else could LE know what went down and be so certain of it, than if there was a digital record of it?

ETA: in ABro's latest article, in a letter to a groupie. DM wrote that he had had an iPhone since they came out - and iPhones are also similarly tracked by Apple.

Just because these kids were young and well-to-do, they owned the premium brand, Apple, and in using that they gave up their location histories for years' worth.

Being in this demographic also would lead them to be heavy users of texting - another kind of data that is collected by independent companies and saved for years, and which can accessed by LE long after the fact.

LE demand is actually leading various companies to retain data for longer. Also, as time goes by, the cost of storage for data gets ever cheaper while the value of data increases...

It's interesting how much data in North America is collected and contributed to LE by companies and individuals. LE had over 10,000 videos to view in the TB case. No doubt telecommunications companies (mobile, internet, telephone) had a lot to offer LE in this case.

In the UK they have street cameras that are operated by LE in direct contrast to the plethora of video taken by companies and individuals but not the state, here.

You wonder if the government will get in the business of mandating how long data must be held by telecoms in order to satisfy the needs of LE.

 

[swedie]

And we don't know that there was anything to tell either. If, as her mother says, they were friends, then that is what they were. DM isn't a photographer imo, if he is then we all are, as I imagine most people have taken photographs at some point. I believe the SG pics were from 2005, I just don't see how DM can be called a photographer because he had taken photos some six or more years before he ever clapped eyes on LB. JMO

For all we know LB may have been hoping that DM would become more than a friend. Maybe she was trying to set up a possible 'date'. We have no idea. DM obviously believed CN was his girlfriend, so what LB thought is really out of the realms of our knowledge IMO.

I think it's safe to say we can deduce DM likes to believe he is something more than what he really is and lies quite freely. Surely he has fabricated quite the resume to impress. Some people have a gift for that and can actually convince others their lies are truths. Apparently in his mind, because he took those pictures of "Josie" intentionally posing for the camera AND credited himself as the photographer, tells me he believes he is a photographer. Maybe that illusion shouldn't be taken away from him if that's what he believes. After all, his future is looking mighty grim IMHO. He says he's not guilty of the three murders he been charged with, I guess we will have to wait about a year to find out how truthful he is. MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think it's safe to say we can deduce DM likes to believe he is something more than what he really is and lies quite freely. Surely he has fabricated quite the resume to impress. Some people have a gift for that and can actually convince others their lies are truths. Apparently in his mind, because he took those pictures of "Josie" intentionally posing for the camera AND credited himself as the photographer, tells me he believes he is a photographer. Maybe that illusion shouldn't be taken away from him if that's what he believes. After all, his future is looking mighty grim IMHO. He says he's not guilty of the three murders he been charged with, I guess we will have to wait about a year to find out how truthful he is. MOO.

Well DM's mother must have been proud to see her son's unique name online as a purveyor of *advertiser censored*. At least "Josie" had the good sense to use a pseudonym.

 

[swedie]

Well DM's mother must have been proud to see her son's unique name online as a purveyor of *advertiser censored*. At least "Josie" had the good sense to use a pseudonym.

Hmm wonder if MB is/was computer savy? It's been suggested WM wasn't. How much did DM's parents really know about what their son was up to and what he was doing in all his free time? Would you suggest CM and WM knew what was really going on in the hangar? If they allowed raves and soft *advertiser censored* photo shoots, what else was DM able to persuade them into letting him get away with? Maybe they knew nothing or were naive? Many kids try to pull the wool over their parents' eyes. And some do get away with it. MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/missing-w...tionship-with-suspect-in-bosma-case-1.1310375

"romantically" not "Platonically" linked

Obviously they were more than friends.

Obviously someone (not the people involved) have said this. I still maintain it is ONE source unless you have any links to another source(s). The police were given information by SL. SL got information from an unnamed friend.

 

[Tamarind]

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news...missing_womans_uncle_looking_for_answers.html

Strange, if she was in a relationship with him then why was it SL who put her in a hotel? Surely if DM was her boyfriend she would have been welcome to have stayed at his home like his other friends. I think they were friends only and the rest of the romance allegations come from baseless allegations from a source that is as yet unnamed and unconfirmed. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Agreed SB. Or she never told her mother they were bf/gf because she hadn't spoken to her mother since the relationship advanced? LB's mother had met DM a couple times, but that was when she was living at home. When was the last time mother and daughter spoke? TR and LB spoke just a couple weeks before she was murdered.

It only makes sense had she been referring someone else as her new beau, who was wealthy, etc., etc., this new beau would have cared more about her and helped her when she was down and out. It was DM she referred to but little did she know he was only using her for sex, giving her false promises and lying to her. He did travel shortly after her murder and I could see him telling her he was going to take her, that is what she relayed to her uncle. DM didn't give a rat's hiney that LB was down and out as long as he got from her what he wanted. We know how frugality ran in the family, DM figured why pay for sex when he could BS his way through and get it for free.

I have to believe what comes directly from the horse's mouth and their intuition. TR and LB's family and friend(s), they knew her best. ALL MOO.

Ryan hadn&#8217;t seen his niece for a couple years, but he spoke to her on the phone just weeks before she disappeared.

And during that conversation, his niece talked about a new boyfriend, a man Ryan now believes was Millard.

&#8220;My wife and I both think it was Dellen she was talking about because she referred to him being a pilot and a photographer,&#8221; Ryan said. &#8220;She also mentioned he was wealthy.&#8221;

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/10/search-continues-on-farm-of-tim-bosmas-accused-killer

Ryan: &#8220;The last time I spoke to Laura was two weeks prior to her disappearance and it was in regards to her bringing a gentleman to my wife&#8217;s, my wedding, and my wife and I both think that it was Dellen (Millard) she was talking about, just I believe referring to him as a pilot, photographer and wealthy, and what not so we didn&#8217;t want her to come with a brand new boyfriend to the wedding, just, it didn&#8217;t seem right to me.

http://www.chch.com/toronto-police-still-searching-millard-farm/

&#8220;She said he&#8217;d be taking her travelling for a little bit. She was impressed that he was a good photographer and had money and a good-looking fella,&#8221; Ryan said about the new flame he now believes was Millard.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

Well there you go..this photographer apparently was going to take her travelling, DM had a girlfriend who apparently he was very generous with, he didnt need a travel companion. I doubt he would be taking LB travelling when he had a steady girlfriend. Also that year he went on an ALL BOYS trip to Croatia, so obviously DM did not plan to take her anywhere anytime soon. TR really doesnt know who LB's boyfriend was, to say it was DM is nothing more than an assumption. JMO

DM didnt really need to look far for sex, he had a girlfriend and there are plenty of women who would have entertained him based on his wealth alone, they are out there.

 

[Tamarind]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

Well maybe the friend who allegedly told SL about a sexual relationship will be at the trial. Until then this one source is hearsay IMO