DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #17

[Skigirl]

Contractor

Yeah, that's where my head, went, too. Unless it was a hand-drawn diagram, then it could be anyone who had familiarity with the house.

 

[rkf]

This reminded me that the Savopoulos house SW allowed LE to look for/seize diagrams or photos. Who would have had access to diagrams? Are diagrams blueprints? What other type of diagrams would be relevant here? Maybe there is something I'm not thinking of.

We have the architect's drawings from when we renovated our house. He and the builder would also have copies. Maybe LE thought it would just help them figure out where everyone was during the crime. Faster than having to have one made for the detectives' room and court. JMO

ETA: Skigirl's post ^ makes more sense - LE looking for a hand drawn diagram to show insider participation. Doh.

 

[katydid23]

I think it's very probable that there was some coming and going, from the house...most likely in the middle of the night. With that scenario, he could flee the scene, after starting the fire, virtually empty-handed. Would be interesting to know if the Porsche was parked in the same place, when pizza was delivered, as it was when VF husband arrived. Without a doubt, IMO, he/they left with more than the 40K. They are thieves...that's what they do. It's how they afford to eat, buy drugs, and I-phones...among other things. A thief will rob a person blind, in a little amount of time. Can you imagine having all night? I would bet the bank he made off with jewelry and other items of value. Look at the photos that have been posted. He obviously has big love for jewelry...gold/silver chains, diamond stud earrings. He was probably like a starved man, eating free, at the all night buffet.

But DW did not have a place to live or a car. I don't think he was a very successful criminal.

 

[rkf]

The affidavits describe the adults as being in an adjacent bedroom, I always assumed the other one at the front of the house, especially since smoke was billowing out of the front windows and fire fighters described the fire as "fairly contained".

I assumed the same thing, but if the perp set PS' room on fire, if the adults were in the room to the right, to set the bathroom on fire, he would have to go through that walkway and into the bathroom from the bedroom on the right. Seems those two rooms would make the most sense, as it's faster to go back and forth between the two rooms. But if DW was trying to destroy evidence in PS' room and a bathroom, I'd think it was PS' bathroom. Also, it sounds like the fire department was able to contain the fire before it did much damage to the room where the adults were held. The thicker, load-bearing walls between PS' room and the master suite probably would have provided more protection from the fire. IDK.

 

[Skigirl]

I think it's very probable that there was some coming and going, from the house...most likely in the middle of the night. With that scenario, he could flee the scene, after starting the fire, virtually empty-handed. Would be interesting to know if the Porsche was parked in the same place, when pizza was delivered, as it was when VF husband arrived. Without a doubt, IMO, he/they left with more than the 40K. They are thieves...that's what they do. It's how they afford to eat, buy drugs, and I-phones...among other things. A thief will rob a person blind, in a little amount of time. Can you imagine having all night? I would bet the bank he made off with jewelry and other items of value. Look at the photos that have been posted. He obviously has big love for jewelry...gold/silver chains, diamond stud earrings. He was probably like a starved man, eating free, at the all night buffet.

The ability to come and go would certainly be consistent with needing more than one individual (as LE has stated), and the ability to remove items from the house would sweeten the pot for the sleepover. Now that you say "eating free, at the all night buffet" I am going to add the pizza order as another baffling detail in this whole thing. I mean, they had all night in a house with a kitchen that I have to assume had plenty of food. Why add the extra risk of giving AS access to the phone and bringing a pizza delivery person to the scene? It makes no sense.

 

[rkf]

But DW did not have a place to live or a car. I don't think he was a very successful criminal.

He lived off other people. Slept at girlfriends'/relatives' houses. Not sure if he owned the car he was driving when cited for traffic violations. Probably also used girlfriends'/relatives' cars as needed. Didn't hesitate to use others' names when he got pinched. Total user.

 

[CrimeNeverPays]

I'm sorry to bring this to the table...But thinking OUT OF THE BOX - because it seems very very odd timing.

So here we HAVE~ perfect TIME for the perfect CRIME(everything completely planned out here)

AND 1 thing is important here.....how to get the stuff & force a cash drop to the house??? Avoid an attack by SS a martial arts expert oh... & there are big scary dogs, so how can one get ahold of SS & get him to agree to stay calm...etc. & agree to all this?????

THE CHILD.

OK... Somehow, the RING has to get the child home. How else to do that?? Could there be something much more surreptitiously covert & sickly underhanded about the PS Go KART accident??? Anyone know more details about that?????

 

[Skigirl]

If you look at the blueprint of the first floor, the butler's pantry is right below that room. It looks like those walls are supporting/load bearing walls, so it could just be a closet or they could have made it a safe room. Seems pretty small for a family of 5. I don't see anything else that could be it, but I can't read most of the text. I wonder how the news channel got these blue prints.

Looking at these blueprints some more makes me think about where the victims were during the crime. PS was in his room, to the right of the arrow. He has his own bathroom to the left of his room. The master suite is huge. Is this where the adults were kept? Or the bedroom to the right of PS? I thought news reports said there was a bathroom connecting PS' room to the room where the adults died, but it doesn't look like the bathroom on either side of PS' room has doors that open to two bedrooms. A bathroom and PS' room are where the fire was primarily contained IIRC.

I think you may be right, since the adults were found in chairs (unlike the son, who was in a bed). That would make more sense with a master suite that had a sitting area.

 

[CrimeNeverPays]

I'm sorry to bring this to the table...But thinking OUT OF THE BOX - because it seems very very odd timing.

So here we HAVE~ perfect TIME for the perfect CRIME(everything completely planned out here)

AND 1 thing is important here.....how to get the stuff & force a cash drop to the house??? Avoid an attack by SS a martial arts expert oh... & there are big scary dogs, so how can one get ahold of SS & get him to agree to stay calm...etc. & agree to all this?????

THE CHILD.

OK... Somehow, the RING has to get the child home. How else to do that?? Could there be something much more surreptitiously covert & sickly underhanded about the PS Go KART accident??? Anyone know more details about that?????

sorry to quote my own quote but Was JW present the day that PS had the go Karting accident???? Get the name of the person who ran into little PS

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

I'm sorry to bring this to the table...But thinking OUT OF THE BOX - because it seems very very odd timing.

So here we HAVE~ perfect TIME for the perfect CRIME(everything completely planned out here)

AND 1 thing is important here.....how to get the stuff & force a cash drop to the house??? Avoid an attack by SS a martial arts expert oh... & there are big scary dogs, so how can one get ahold of SS & get him to agree to stay calm...etc. & agree to all this?????

THE CHILD.

OK... Somehow, the RING has to get the child home. How else to do that?? Could there be something much more surreptitiously covert & sickly underhanded about the PS Go KART accident??? Anyone know more details about that?????

I looked at the race standings for PS in his last go-kart races where I believe he sustained a concussion (late April/early May in I think it was Arizona). He had one heat where he was listed as Did Not Finish. I read somewhere (either on that website or somewhere else) that he ran into the back of a stopped go-kart on the track, sustaining a sprained knee and a mild concussion. He raced in I believe a 12 year old and under league so unless a young kid deliberately stopped in front of him, I would venture to guess it was really an accident.

ETA: the "somewhere else" I may have read it was a very long Washington Post article written about the whole family around the time of the funeral. I believe it had something like "Forever in our hearts" in the title. Sorry, I cannot remember the exact date or title.

ETA II: article referencing injury http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...5e5e24-0545-11e5-bc72-f3e16bf50bb6_story.html

 

[facundo]

DW & Co have plenty of friends on the outside.

They will have to get in line too. There will be a crowd of thieves and yeggs showing up tonight. :happydance::jail:

 

[mk4osu]

Add to that, all the red flags that were missed...the VM's, calls, texts, large cash withdrawal, delivery of large amount of cash to a garage, VF's husband sensing something was amiss. I just thought of something else: While reading the NT article again last night, I noticed that it said, "In addition, June 5 interviews with contractors who were working on the Savapoulos garage at the time of the murders....." If this is the case, where we these contractors, on that Wed & Thurs? That whole segment of the article was odd to me, anyway. The Davies guy stated that he never entered from the garage, and never noticed a key pad. WTH...you are working on a garage expansion and never walked in or out of the garage...to even maybe go grab a tool from your work truck? The only way I can imagine that, is if SS told them to do the work with the garage doors shut. Weird also...if contractors were at my house, I would demand that they have the doors up. I wouldn't want them entering and exiting, from inside my house. You work on the garage, and you never notice a keypad? Strange, I think. Btw, there was a keypad. I found it yesterday, while searching for garage pics. I don't know if anyone else ever posted a clear pic.

ITA agree that each detail makes this crime curiouser and curiouser. You also have these weird car things popping up (rare mosler, assistant who happens to be a racecar enthusiast, the reg in his possession, the Amerit truck) that might just be a red herring. Plus a tortured, not just murdered, 10-year old! It is utterly baffling.

 

[FelicityLemon]

To rent a car you have to have a valid driver's license and a credit card. Maybe that explains the presence of one of the women in the car with Wint?

Why risk your own ID being out there when you can use foolish females to do that for you? I'm female, so please don't anybody go jumping on me for making this observation. I've seen what foolish and sometimes illegal things women do for a man. I know it goes both ways (m for f), but I'm speaking of this instance.

There is NO WAY anybody in that little party was innocent of what was happening.

Basing my opinion on personal experience with SIL. She should have spent time in jail. (We wish she would have!)

 

[rkf]

I'm sorry to bring this to the table...But thinking OUT OF THE BOX - because it seems very very odd timing.

So here we HAVE~ perfect TIME for the perfect CRIME(everything completely planned out here)

AND 1 thing is important here.....how to get the stuff & force a cash drop to the house??? Avoid an attack by SS a martial arts expert oh... & there are big scary dogs, so how can one get ahold of SS & get him to agree to stay calm...etc. & agree to all this?????

THE CHILD.

OK... Somehow, the RING has to get the child home. How else to do that?? Could there be something much more surreptitiously covert & sickly underhanded about the PS Go KART accident??? Anyone know more details about that?????

I don't think so - for one thing PS was expected to be at school starting that Tuesday. Maybe he went and then needed another day of rest on Wednesday or maybe he didn't start back to school as planned. That Wednesday was St. Alban's field day, so if he had been well and at school, he would have been home later than usual and AS would most likely also have been there.

 

[facundo]

He lived off other people. Slept at girlfriends'/relatives' houses. Not sure if he owned the car he was driving when cited for traffic violations. Probably also used girlfriends'/relatives' cars as needed. Didn't hesitate to use others' names when he got pinched. Total user.

There has been nothing aired about DW owning or not owning a vehicle. His facebook had two pictures of a car and in the timeline was a reference admiring chrome wheels on another vehicle.

 

[FelicityLemon]

So the panic room is upstairs?

To me, yes. On the blueprints, it's unmarked. It's next to the parent's room. There may be another safe room or spot near the kidlets rooms, too. A safe room doesn't have to be large for comfort, just to protect the occupants from harm. I imagine there's communication of some sort from that room to the security provider or PD. Maybe there's another room downstairs, I don't know.

I do know I'd want one near the bedrooms in case of a nighttime break-in.

Honestly, I don't know, I saw the thick walls, the space unmarked like the other spaces, so my mind went there.

Another item for my wish list: if I ever live in a two-story home again, I'll put a door at the top of the stairs, too. I'm becoming ever more safety-conscious bordering on paranoia reading about all the home invasions.

 

[rkf]

Add to that, all the red flags that were missed...the VM's, calls, texts, large cash withdrawal, delivery of large amount of cash to a garage, VF's husband sensing something was amiss. I just thought of something else: While reading the NT article again last night, I noticed that it said, "In addition, June 5 interviews with contractors who were working on the Savapoulos garage at the time of the murders....." If this is the case, where we these contractors, on that Wed & Thurs? That whole segment of the article was odd to me, anyway. The Davies guy stated that he never entered from the garage, and never noticed a key pad. WTH...you are working on a garage expansion and never walked in or out of the garage...to even maybe go grab a tool from your work truck? The only way I can imagine that, is if SS told them to do the work with the garage doors shut. Weird also...if contractors were at my house, I would demand that they have the doors up. I wouldn't want them entering and exiting, from inside my house. You work on the garage, and you never notice a keypad? Strange, I think. Btw, there was a keypad. I found it yesterday, while searching for garage pics. I don't know if anyone else ever posted a clear pic.

It would be good to find an additional source on the interviews with "contractors". I think contractor BD may have had a personal relationship in addition to professional with SS. (I don't know why he would use him for more than one project if he didn't!) All the reasons you give for entering from the house make sense to me (as to why he never entered from the driveway). I'm not sure that there was construction work still going on at the S house, but it was definitely still on at the dojo. You would think if his work was enlarging/renovating the garage, he would be intimately knowledgeable about the keypad, because he would need to be aware of electrical running to it, etc. This leads me to think that whatever work was going on in the garage was not related to the doors and the door side of the garage. Facundo has said the garage was enlarged in depth, but I don't understand how that could work. Depth, meaning eating into the rest of the house or depth into the yard to the right of the garage? It doesn't seem that there was any exterior change from earlier photos. What is this room outlined in blue? I see the smaller rectangle inside seems to say "toilet". there don't seem to be any exterior doors or windows, although I could just not be seeing them. There appears to be some type of conduit to the outside right above the toilet room, but I don't know what that is.

 

[mk4osu]

I agree with everything you stated. Everything changes, when your children are involved. I'm so sad for this family. I hope my post didn't come off, the wrong way. I've tried thinking of all kinds of scenarios. In my mind, I never thought the family had any sort of chance to fight back. It had just occurred to me, that maybe SS did, especially toward the end. Along with those lines of thinking, a thought popped into my mind that maybe he couldn't fight back, if he had possibly been drugged. It was just a thought. I, like many, believe that everything that Mr. S did, he did to try to save his little boy. In my books, Mr. S is a hero.

JMO - I think if someone has your 10 year-old at knife point, all the guns, swords, safe rooms and security systems in the world aren't going to help you. I believe SS' martial arts training helped him stay calm in an unbearable situation. Everything else they had for personal security was out of reach at a pivotal moment and therefore worthless to the victims. They did everything they could have possibly done to safeguard their personal safety, while still living a "normal" life. I think it would be nearly impossible to live, anticipating every knock at the door could be a criminal intent on torturing and murdering your whole family. I know some people live like that, but it's at great personal cost to their freedom and spontaneity. And the vast majority of people never encounter a situation like this, no matter how many times they open the door to strangers, employees or acquaintances.

 

[rkf]

Add to that, all the red flags that were missed...the VM's, calls, texts, large cash withdrawal, delivery of large amount of cash to a garage, VF's husband sensing something was amiss. I just thought of something else: While reading the NT article again last night, I noticed that it said, "In addition, June 5 interviews with contractors who were working on the Savapoulos garage at the time of the murders....." If this is the case, where we these contractors, on that Wed & Thurs? That whole segment of the article was odd to me, anyway. The Davies guy stated that he never entered from the garage, and never noticed a key pad. WTH...you are working on a garage expansion and never walked in or out of the garage...to even maybe go grab a tool from your work truck? The only way I can imagine that, is if SS told them to do the work with the garage doors shut. Weird also...if contractors were at my house, I would demand that they have the doors up. I wouldn't want them entering and exiting, from inside my house. You work on the garage, and you never notice a keypad? Strange, I think. Btw, there was a keypad. I found it yesterday, while searching for garage pics. I don't know if anyone else ever posted a clear pic.

Could you post the photo you found or a link to it? It would seem weird not to have a keypad to enter through the garage. Also, if the keypad keeps track of entries, that could be another reason LE jumped on JW about the money delivery in the garage.

 

[rkf]

I agree with everything you stated. Everything changes, when your children are involved. I'm so sad for this family. I hope my post didn't come off, the wrong way. I've tried thinking of all kinds of scenarios. In my mind, I never thought the family had any sort of chance to fight back. It had just occurred to me, that maybe SS did, especially toward the end. Along with those lines of thinking, a thought popped into my mind that maybe he couldn't fight back, if he had possibly been drugged. It was just a thought. I, like many, believe that everything that Mr. S did, he did to try to save his little boy. In my books, Mr. S is a hero.

I personally didn't think your post came off in a bad way. We're all trying to figure out something beyond comprehension! If DW was as sadistic as I think he is, he wouldn't want to drug the victims. He'd want them wide awake for the horror. JMO