CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #3

[cady]

Imagine how screwed up you'd have to be to think like that. Poor kid, i hope she goes to a home that can shelter and protect her from all of this.

Interesting that they say "how could a mother allow that" What about a father? So sad and disgusting. I heard the brother-in-law say that he and his wife want to adopt the baby. JMO

 

[Sonya610]

That's fair. I think a lot of terrorism happens from non Muslim groups though. I would have viewed planned parenthood shooting as terrorism. Shooter used political ideas as motivation for attack.

Exactly, random carnage with a political motive is terrorism. Most mass shootings do not fall into that category.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) defines terrorism as “the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/terrorism/pages/welcome.aspx

 

[Ellie9]

bbm I never heard that do you have a link to this? cause if not then it is hearsay. jmo

I saw someone post this, but I've lost the link! As I research it, looks like Ted Cruz is the one to have said this. Perhaps he said this ON fox news, which is where I got this from. (Could be wrong!) That's what I get for trying to only think of the most recent example I knew of! My mistake, EM.

There's other information about this channel. But that's neither here nor there, and everyone is free to watch whatever they view as most informative. I don't want to mess up this thread with that kind of stuff, it's getting off topic now. Just wanted to reply so you knew I heard ya!

 

[Elley Mae]

snippets

Hifza Batool told The Associated Press on Saturday that other relatives have said that Malik, who was her step-niece, used to wear Western clothes but began wearing the hijab head covering or the all-covering burqa donned by the most conservative Muslim women about three years ago.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-05-09-47-43

They described Malik as a devoted home-keeper who closely followed religious traditions. They said Farook's mother never saw any of the weapons or bombs authorities found. The FBI questioned her Wednesday night and, according to the attorneys, said they would not release her until Farook's siblings came for questioning.

Malik, 27, reportedly moved from her home country of Pakistan to Saudi Arabia and eventually came to the U.S. in 2014 on a fiancée visa. However, Saudi authorities say there is no record of her ever being a resident there.

Since March 2014, 71 people have been charged in the U.S. in connection with supporting IS, including 56 this year, according to a recent report from the George Washington University Program on Extremism. Though most are men, "women are taking an increasingly prominent role in the jihadist world," the report said.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Your opinion is fine, anyone can watch whatever channel they feel is best.

Personally I think NPR is the most level headed, but that's my opinion too.

I think a recent example of the bias I was talking about was when fox began saying that the planned parenthood shooter was a liberal trans person. I mean, come on, heh.


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I really think the biggest blunder made in the past couple of years was when MSNBC nor CNN vetted the so called witness (lying) to the MB shooting. For months they ran with the false narrative that MB had his hands up which was totally false and by pushing that image it incited many violent protests by using the false witness story they were airing non-stop. They didn't investigate to see if it was really true because many who were there at the scene knew then it didn't happen but it went with their agenda of dividing the country and creating race wars so they ran with it non-stop.

I didn't hear them say that about the PP shooter but they may have said that knowing he checked his gender as a female on the voter registration. But equally true was the liberal media was immediately trying to spin it that he was a Christian fanatic and a republican. I don't think that has ever been vetted either since he marked 'un-affiliated' on his voters registration which lends more credence he was an independent, imo. As far as I have read he didn't even attend church while in CO and was a loner and misfit sort of like the Uni-bomber.

Like I said, I can only speak for myself, but I don't trust any story that the liberals news sites put out. For the longest time they wouldn't even name the race of a shooter unless it was a white cop or white offender. I base my opinion on solely seeing them run with information that was not true nor did they even try to get to the actual truth. CNN and MSNBC also runs one story 24/7 night and day for months on end just like they did for months when the first airplane went down in the ocean when other channels have long moved on to current news.

Personally, I find liberal news channels, anti-military-anti white, anti-religion-anti gun so I really do not have anything in common with the agendas they push.

But we are getting far afield here and going off topic..

JMO though

 

[bluesneakers]

That's fair. I think a lot of terrorism happens from non Muslim groups though. I would have viewed planned parenthood shooting as terrorism. Shooter used political ideas as motivation for attack.

I'm not sure what the solution is. IS is a huge problem, and that group is barbaric. They hurt and kill tons of innocent Syrian people too, though, and I'm not sure blocking refugees is the solution. But it's not at all wrong to suggest it's possible terrorists could pose as refugees. Just thinking out loud, over how difficult the situation is.

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One of the reasons I don't think terrorists will pose as refugees is there are much easier ways to get here. Two years of bureaucracy and scrutiny and living as a refugee is a lot of trouble when they can just get a visa or even come over as a tourist with a fake passport.

Or they can apply to come over as a fiancé or spouse.

 

[Ellie9]

One of the reasons I don't think terrorists will pose as refugees is there are much easier ways to get here. Two years of bureaucracy and scrutiny and living as a refugee is a lot of trouble when they can just get a visa or even come over as a tourist with a fake passport.

Or they can apply to come over as a fiancé or spouse.

Fair point. I'm a USA citizen who has moved to Canada and I'm going through immigration right now. It's like one of the hardest things I've ever done and every time there is a minor issue with my application I basically have panic attacks haha. It's about a year long process if you're lucky.

I guess I wish we had good information on the chances of refugees being already radicalized (or close) versus the chances of any immigrant or US citizen or visitor. Like - how big is the refugee threat statistically? I know in Paris attacks we had no refugees. In this San Bernardino attack she was not a refugee but she was indeed someone who immigrated to US successfully. (How is this fair, I've been working and worrying my butt off for months to get to permanent residency in Canada and this terrorist gets it faster than I did... grrr...)

Sometimes I do wonder if this is one of those things that just scares people more. We have mass shooters who are not connected to terrorists (any kind).... are they LESS scary than terrorists? I mean, it's pretty scary either way, right? Maybe we over estimate the amount of terrorist threat. Maybe it's similar to people who are terrified to fly in planes, but have no fear of cars, even though cars are more statistically dangerous.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Sorta O/T ... But this is a good article on how the gov defines domestic terrorism. http://www.9news.com/story/news/loc...springs-shooting-domestic-terrorism/76592506/

 

[CARIIS]

Here is the guy he fought with at the party --he was killed.

San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook reportedly told Jewish colleague and eventual victim ‘Israel doesn’t belong in the Middle East’ two weeks before massacre

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ish-colleague-victim-friend-article-1.2455576

 

[AmyPond]

Yep, why buy clothes if you planned that day to be the attack? Maybe they got a good deal on cyber monday! smdh

ETA- It doesn't actually state their name was on it, could be the mom i guess!

I really don't think these two planned to die. I think they figured they'd get away with it. I kind of wonder if they'd killed people at a more public place where it was all strangers...if they would have gotten away. The reason they were found so quickly is because a co-worker mentioned him leaving during the party.

 

[Ellie9]

I really don't think these two planned to die. I think they figured they'd get away with it. I kind of wonder if they'd killed people at a more public place where it was all strangers...if they would have gotten away. The reason they were found so quickly is because a co-worker mentioned him leaving during the party.

This is a good theory also because of the lack of those bomb-vests and that they didn't shoot themselves after like many do.

 

[bluesneakers]

Fair point. I'm a USA citizen who has moved to Canada and I'm going through immigration right now. It's like one of the hardest things I've ever done and every time there is a minor issue with my application I basically have panic attacks haha. It's about a year long process if you're lucky.

I guess I wish we had good information on the chances of refugees being already radicalized (or close) versus the chances of any immigrant or US citizen or visitor. Like - how big is the refugee threat statistically? I know in Paris attacks we had no refugees. In this San Bernardino attack she was not a refugee but she was indeed someone who immigrated to US successfully. (How is this fair, I've been working and worrying my butt off for months to get to permanent residency in Canada and this terrorist gets it faster than I did... grrr...)

Sometimes I do wonder if this is one of those things that just scares people more. We have mass shooters who are not connected to terrorists (any kind).... are they LESS scary than terrorists? I mean, it's pretty scary either way, right? Maybe we over estimate the amount of terrorist threat. Maybe it's similar to people who are terrified to fly in planes, but have no fear of cars, even though cars are more statistically dangerous.

Hah! I just went through the process, and years ago we went through it to get my Canadian husband to the USA. Apparently we're slow learners.

I think it's one of those things that scares people more. It is scary, to be sure, but the perceived risk is somehow skewed. Like how a person is more likely to drown in the bathtub than be killed by a shark, die in a car accident than a plane crash, etc. (I think people are also more likely to commit suicide than be murdered too.) Why do our brains do this?

Will we all be afraid when we're in crowded places now? How crowded? Will having security and metal detectors make us feel safer?

I don't know.

 

[ninij9]

a) There are many fundamentalist churches in the US which advocate hatred of people who don't hold their views and they have large followings
b) there are justifiable reasons why many people in the Middle East and Asia hate the US.
c) many Americans hate what they don't understand
d) most developing countries have lots of admirable qualities and are inhabited by folks who are less quick to judge others than a majority of Americans.

I am American, and the rampant bigotry in this country appalls me.

What appalls me is how you can take my post and completely turn it around. You are equating religious intolerance with with religious fanatisim. The first promotes distrust and separatism, I don't like this either. But the second are encouraging their followers to bliw up and kill Americans just because we are American. These animals killed Muslim as well as everyone else on 9/11. It is your right to feel this way. It is my right to disagree.


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[CSIDreamer]

Mr. Farook’s mother, Rafia, sold the family’s home in May according to property records. On Thursday, a package for her still sat on the porch.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/neighbo...le-they-knew-are-shooting-suspects-1449188181

Isn't May about the time their baby was born? Just an interesting look at the timing of the sale.

Also, is the WSJ paywalled or free to e subscribe?

 

[ellie b]

One of the reasons I don't think terrorists will pose as refugees is there are much easier ways to get here. Two years of bureaucracy and scrutiny and living as a refugee is a lot of trouble when they can just get a visa or even come over as a tourist with a fake passport.

Or they can apply to come over as a fiancé or spouse.

To be honest, most of the ISIS/AlQaida/Jihaadi type of terrorist acts in Europe are carried out by residents, for example the Paris attacks were done by either French or Belgian nationals, and in this instance the husband was born in US wasn't he ?

 

[bluesneakers]

I really don't think these two planned to die. I think they figured they'd get away with it. I kind of wonder if they'd killed people at a more public place where it was all strangers...if they would have gotten away. The reason they were found so quickly is because a co-worker mentioned him leaving during the party.

And they left so much stuff at home.

 

[Ellie9]

I think it's one of those things that scares people more. It is scary, to be sure, but the perceived risk is somehow skewed. Like how a person is more likely to drown in the bathtub than be killed by a shark, die in a car accident than a plane crash, etc. (I think people are also more likely to commit suicide than be murdered too.) Why do our brains do this?

I think Ricky from Trailer Park Boys answered this best: ""My brain plays tricks on me all the time, man, 'cause it's way smarter than me. It's always ******' me around."

As for being afraid in public places, I did notice this a lot after Columbine, and then severely so after 9/11, which was of course a 'life changing' attack. I mean, people still go out, but I hear about people just considering the danger more than before. When I myself am even making plans I'll consider if where I'm going could be dangerous.

But we'll never know and that's the bad thing. You know what I never would have considered dangerous? Going to a little holiday party for my job. Or just going to the office on a quiet Tuesday morning. Or attending a university lecture. I always picture big things like an attack on Times Square New Years Eve, or an attack on a Super Bowl, and I never even think things like that actually later happen.

 

[CARIIS]

dont forget that the conference with 143 leaders from around the world goes on in Paris for another week ..................

 

[bluesneakers]

To be honest, most of the ISIS/AlQaida/Jihaadi type of terrorist acts in Europe are carried out by residents, for example the Paris attacks were done by either French or Belgian nationals, and in this instance the husband was born in US wasn't he ?

True. I was just addressing the refugee part. I know a lot of people have that fear.

Eta Yes, he was born here. I think in Chicago.

 

[CARIIS]

Isn't May about the time their baby was born? Just an interesting look at the timing of the sale.

Also, is the WSJ paywalled or free to e subscribe?

you have to register yuk