IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #13

[changeindeed]

It is something to consider. One thing that I have been toying with based on how "down the hill" sounded to me is that if this person does talk like that in real life they may be a current or former correctional officer - particularly at a private for-profit prison rather than a state or county-run facility. I can imagine that voice saying "in the cell" in much the same way when dealing with a prisoner.

Ya know , since you're talking about this now and many have mentioned how he sounds or what sort of accent he might have I will make a comment. The very first time I heard it, ( I say this because as time goes on and your read or hear other opinions it gets changed) I thought he sounded as if he were in a authority type of position. Now please understand I AM NOT saying this is his profession, only trying to get across the manner in which I THINK he sounds; when I've seen programs such as COPS or shows like that when the officer is putting someone in the backseat they often say "Watch your head" and for some reason it just sounds as if that is the flow or the context of his command.


Does any of what I typed make sense?

 

[courtfollower89]

Very interesting, I know both houses have been ruled out as far as suspects but interesting to see police thinking.

 

[Lionheart1980]

I don't think blowing up photos, or speculating about what direction the girls were walking will do us any good. We need to focus on what law enforcement is telling us and the information they have provided us.

I think many of us are speculating because there are so few facts. Its been 2 weeks we're grasping at straws. Its all we have. It might not help solve the crime, but it helps us to cope. No idea is a bad idea. I have my opinions. You have yours. They have theirs. Respectfully.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[buddhababe79]

possibly! someone else suggested the same thing bc it looks like he may be wearing a watch on right arm

 

[Safeguard]

I struggle with the "whys" and "how's" in this case and then I have to remind myself it's gotta be a SK there just isn't a place in my brain that allows me to believe any other scenario. As we go to be tonight I can't help but think of the girls families and the devastation they just feel. We here at WS want answers and arrests, but I simply can't imagine the horror of being them. I am hoping for another presser soon, with hopefully way more info. The longer they play this close to the chest the less likely it is to get solved IMO.

Thank you nana for the photos they put everything into visual perspective for me. I hope to weaken to an arrest but until then, have we heard or seen if there's been any movement at the plant since the initial bomb threat?

I believe the initial bungling of the "missing kids" call, put this case in the situation it is in now. First they called off the search over night, even saying "They are not in any danger except from the elements", (Paragraphing), then they said, "no danger to the public, even though the kids were murdered...

I think they thought this was in the bag, right out of the gate, for whatever reason. But they were wrong. Costly presumptions.

This gave the perp plenty of time to slip away... IMO!

 

[margarita25]

(Omg I'm out of coffee :scared: )

(Reminded of that scene in Airplane2 where the flight attendant tells the passengers "We are a million miles off course" and they just sit there. Then she says "and we are out of coffee" and the whole plane goes beserk)

 

[Elainera]

I've read that book and there are plenty of useful take-aways. I think even as a layperson studying profiling can be pretty useful.

Back when the McStay case was at a very sad standstill I was frustrated and decided to start a profiling thread. I said, let's take a look at other cases where whole families disappeared or were killed, etc. What kind of people commit those crimes? So we started scouring the internet for cases like that (some as far back as the 1800s.) If my memory serves, they seemed to fit into roughly 3 categories - family annhilator, which didn't seem to fit our case, disturbed teen, which didn't seem to fit (and was against TOS to discuss in that thread anyway thank goodness, and business deals gone bad. That last one I admit I didn't expect to find. But by process of elimination I began to focus on that angle, theories around Joey McStay's business. Eventually, after the bodies were found, that proved to be who was arrested, a former business partner.

There were people in that forum who were suggesting the business associate angle long before I was. But they were going off hunches, rumors, things that just rubbed them the wrong way about the eventual suspect. The problem with that the majority of the posters had other theories also based on their own hunches, instincts, etc., so it was hard for people in any one camp to persuade the other.

I wish I could do that with this case and I may try. It's a totally different kind of case with a lot less info available at the moment so it may indeed be above my pay grade (which is zero, so that's not hard, haha.)

Great post Irish_Eyes, and great sleuthing on the McStay case!

It kind of fits with what I was just gonna post, the link was provided by another member earlier but I'm sorry I can't remember who that was.

It's about the different types of serial killers, and I was wondering in which category our perp would fit. I quote part of the article:

"Thrill seekers are serial killers that see outsmarting the law as some sort of amusement. They enjoy attention from the media and they also enjoy being pursued by the police. They can be distinguished from other serial killers because of the fact that they send messages to others and they keep detailed records of their killings. Because of this, it is logical to say that most thrill seekers can be categorized as organized, but at the same time they do not always plan everything out in advance. For that, they are also seen as unorganized killers. Thrills seekers typically use weapons and/or rape their victims before killing them. After that, they hide the victim's corpse and they move on to their next victim, that is, unless of course they are caught in the act of doing so.

Mission-oriented serial killers are killers that feel that they are doing society a favor by ridding it of certain people; these can include young women, prostitutes, drug dealers, or homosexuals, people they feel that society could do without. These killers are generally not psychotic. Some see themselves as trying to change society. They always have a controlled crime scene, hence categorizing them as organized makes them much easier to track. However, since these killers always go after specific victims, this makes them much easier to track down.

Visionary serial killers are people that occaisionally suffer from psychotic breaks from society. They sometimes believe they are another person, or they are compelled to murder by higher entities such as God or the Devil. In fact, the two most common subcategories for visionary serial killers are demon-mandated and God-mandated. David Berkowitz is an example of such a killer. He had claimed that a demon transmitted orders to him through his neighbor's dog that told him to kill. Since visionary killers tend to be more unorganized than other killers, they are very easy to track down.

Power and Control serial killers enjoy their victim's terror, suffering and screaming. These killers tend to be very organized and they usually have a history of childhood abuse, which left them feeling powerless and inadequete as adults. Many of these killers also sexually abuse their victims, but they are not motivated by feelings of lust. To them, rape is simply another form of dominating the victim."

https://sites.google.com/site/psych...hat-are-the-different-types-of-serial-killers

If we can get a feel for what type of killer he is we might be able to deduct other possible behaviour patterns, habits, preferences, etc.

I think Abby's and Libby's killer was either a Thrill Seeker or a Power and Control killer.

What do you all think?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I have been baffled from the beginning about location and direction. We have discussed where Abby and Libby were when they were taking pictures, and it seems that most agree they were at the southerly end of the bridge.
But when I studied the candid picture of Abby that Libby took I noticed something that didn't register before.
She is standing more to the northerly end. She is practically right at the creek Just south of it. If you look westerly and down you see the water. That's a long way from the other end! There are 3 step-outs on each side and they are staggered east to west. On the northeast side of the bridge, the last step-out is behind Abby such that she is between the last and the center platform.
More north than south is my point. I now am convinced they left the bridge on the northwest end by the red posts.


]

.
If you look at the picture, you can see the sun is to the left, which means at 2:00 pm it would be to the south. It appears she is walking north. If she was walking south, the sun would illuminate on her left side, not her right.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Ya know , since you're talking about this now and many have mentioned how he sounds or what sort of accent he might have I will say that the very first time I heard it, ( I say this because as time goes on and your read or hear other opinions it gets changed) I thought he sounded as if he were in a authority type of position. Now please understand I AM NOT saying this is his profession, only trying to get across the manner in which I THINK he sounds...... when I've seen programs such as COPS or shows like that when the officer is putting someone in the backseat they often say "Watch your head" and for some reason it just sounds as if that is the flow or the context of his command.


Does any of what I typed make sense?

It absolutely makes since to me. It was my first reaction to hearing those words the way it was said. Someone calm and in control in the presence of one or more people that are not.

 

[Safeguard]

Great post Irish_Eyes, and great sleuthing on the McStay case!

It kind of fits with what I was just gonna post, the link was provided by another member earlier but I'm sorry I can't remember who that was.

It's about the different types of serial killers, and I was wondering in which category our perp would fit. I quote part of the article:

"Thrill seekers are serial killers that see outsmarting the law as some sort of amusement. They enjoy attention from the media and they also enjoy being pursued by the police. They can be distinguished from other serial killers because of the fact that they send messages to others and they keep detailed records of their killings. Because of this, it is logical to say that most thrill seekers can be categorized as organized, but at the same time they do not always plan everything out in advance. For that, they are also seen as unorganized killers. Thrills seekers typically use weapons and/or rape their victims before killing them. After that, they hide the victim's corpse and they move on to their next victim, that is, unless of course they are caught in the act of doing so.

Mission-oriented serial killers are killers that feel that they are doing society a favor by ridding it of certain people; these can include young women, prostitutes, drug dealers, or homosexuals, people they feel that society could do without. These killers are generally not psychotic. Some see themselves as trying to change society. They always have a controlled crime scene, hence categorizing them as organized makes them much easier to track. However, since these killers always go after specific victims, this makes them much easier to track down.

Visionary serial killers are people that occaisionally suffer from psychotic breaks from society. They sometimes believe they are another person, or they are compelled to murder by higher entities such as God or the Devil. In fact, the two most common subcategories for visionary serial killers are demon-mandated and God-mandated. David Berkowitz is an example of such a killer. He had claimed that a demon transmitted orders to him through his neighbor's dog that told him to kill. Since visionary killers tend to be more unorganized than other killers, they are very easy to track down.

Power and Control serial killers enjoy their victim's terror, suffering and screaming. These killers tend to be very organized and they usually have a history of childhood abuse, which left them feeling powerless and inadequete as adults. Many of these killers also sexually abuse their victims, but they are not motivated by feelings of lust. To them, rape is simply another form of dominating the victim."

https://sites.google.com/site/psych...hat-are-the-different-types-of-serial-killers

If we can get a feel for what type of killer he is we might be able to deduct other possible behaviour patterns, habits, preferences, etc.

I think Abby's and Libby's killer was either a Thrill Seeker or a Power and Control killer.

What do you all think?

I don't think all SKr's fit neatly into a category. Some may have traits from all the categories, and some probably have a whole different MO that is little known...JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Imagine being somewhere on this bridge and you see this guy coming.... Easy to see why she started recording him. It's dangerous walking up there even in the best of conditions.

If this is an image that you edited, you must clearly indicate so. If it is from somewhere else, you must provide a link; otherwise it has to be removed.

Thanks !!

Sillybilly
WS ADMIN

 

[Elainera]

I don't think blowing up photos, or speculating about what direction the girls were walking will do us any good. We need to focus on what law enforcement is telling us and the information they have provided us.

I think this is exactly what LE will do as well. Blow up the photos 100 different ways, speculate where the girls were and where they went from there, and where he joined them, etc, because they will want to reconstruct the crime as accurately as possible. They might also wonder whether he took them through the creek or not.

Sometimes speculation here gets a bit wild, I agree, but even that is not a bad thing, it gets the grey cells fired up and allows for inspiration to happen.

It is possible LE has read here or will read here and I hope that some of us will give or have given them a new idea, a new train of thought, a new road to pursue. There's lots of intelligent musing here. Most of it will not turn out to be correct, but who knows, some of it might be spot on and turn out to have been really helpful in the end.

jmo

 

[bbbd4u]

I have been away since Friday is there anything major I have missed. I see a lot of new threads since I was last on. TIA

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk

 

[Jethro4WS]

.
If you look at the picture, you can see the sun is to the left, which means at 2:00 pm it would be to the south. It appears she is walking north. If she was walking south, the sun would illuminate on her left side, not her right.

The sun would be to west of her. Midday was at 1:00:58pm on that day. Since the sun is hitting on her right side the sun is to her right - ergo her right side is west. Since her right side is facing west then the front of her is facing south.

Plus, you can see the creek in the distance on the left of the photo with much land leading to it. If she were walking north there is no land like that on that side of the creek.

That picture was taken looking North, Abby is headed South.

 

[Elainera]

Ya know , since you're talking about this now and many have mentioned how he sounds or what sort of accent he might have I will make a comment. The very first time I heard it, ( I say this because as time goes on and your read or hear other opinions it gets changed) I thought he sounded as if he were in a authority type of position. Now please understand I AM NOT saying this is his profession, only trying to get across the manner in which I THINK he sounds; when I've seen programs such as COPS or shows like that when the officer is putting someone in the backseat they often say "Watch your head" and for some reason it just sounds as if that is the flow or the context of his command.


Does any of what I typed make sense?

Yes it makes sense. He definitely sounds as if he knows he's in control. He felt sure in his position at the point he said those words.

 

[bmw944]

Ya know , since you're talking about this now and many have mentioned how he sounds or what sort of accent he might have I will make a comment. The very first time I heard it, ( I say this because as time goes on and your read or hear other opinions it gets changed) I thought he sounded as if he were in a authority type of position. Now please understand I AM NOT saying this is his profession, only trying to get across the manner in which I THINK he sounds; when I've seen programs such as COPS or shows like that when the officer is putting someone in the backseat they often say "Watch your head" and for some reason it just sounds as if that is the flow or the context of his command.


Does any of what I typed make sense?

I thought the very same thing.

I got an authority figure vibe from the audio as well.

 

[cluciano63]

I have been away since Friday is there anything major I have missed. I see a lot of new threads since I was last on. TIA

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk

Nothing new since then...

 

[layer]

The sun would be to west of her. Midday was at 1:00:58pm on that day. Since the sun is hitting on her right side the sun is to her right - ergo her right side is west. Since her right side is facing west then the front of her is facing south.

Plus, you can see the creek in the distance on the left of the photo with much land leading to it. If she were walking north there is no land like that on that side of the creek.

That picture was taken looking North, Abby is headed South.

I concur.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I had a thought on the voice clip that has been distributed. Years ago, I read a book by John Douglas and one chapter focused on the trailside killer case in San Francisco and the profile that included that the killer would have a speech impediment. Douglas said he arrived at the idea that he would have a speech impediment because the killer was blitz attacking his victims in a secluded area on hiking trails. He felt this meant he had some kind of defect that caused him to lack the confidence to approach and engage his victims, even in the middle of nowhere. He said that the fact that nobody had reported seeing anyone with a noticeable disfigurement on the trails and he was effectively overpowering his victims lead him to believe it would be a speech impediment.


When they caught David Carpenter, he stuttered severely. The interesting thing was that he was caught because a victim of a would be attack escaped him. If i remember correctly, he began actually speaking to her and she said she felt bad because he stuttered badly and he somehow, opportunistically forced her into his truck. The crazy part of it is that she said once he gained control of her, his stutter went away. Luckily she escaped and he was convicted of a number of murders and attacks.


Long story, short, I think it is important to note that the killer may not sound exactly like the voice released in the Delphi case in everyday life. To me, it sounded like the crime was well-underway and he was directing them to the creek bank where they were found. He sounds very under control almost a bit excited to me. It sounded like he was operating in his comfort zone. Everyday life may not be his comfort zone and he might not sound exactly the same.


Just a strange thought that came to me.

Have you considered sending this in to the tip line? Almost verbatim. Because there may be something else on the audio LE has that might have the very beginnings of the encounter where the person might not have established their full control over any speech impediment. It may be something that investigators or speech/audio analysts haven't examined. You raise a valid possibility that can't be discounted.

 

[Steleheart]

The sun would be to west of her. Midday was at 1:00:58pm on that day. Since the sun is hitting on her right side the sun is to her right - ergo her right side is west. Since her right side is facing west then the front of her is facing south.

Plus, you can see the creek in the distance on the left of the photo with much land leading to it. If she were walking north there is no land like that on that side of the creek.

That picture was taken looking North, Abby is headed South.

That is what I meant yes. More importantly she is closer to the northwest end than I originally thought. Looking at the google view the platforms show about where she was. I do not think they got off at the other end and crossed in the water.

:cow: