UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #21

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If the bone fragments they are testing do turn out to be Corrie, then I definitely suspect fowl play, how can a body go through that process without being noticed ? I agree that if the reward money didn't make anybody come forward before, it's highly unlikely to now, although I completely understand from his families point of view, they are desperate for answers.
Now if foul play was going on, then my theory is , and I think it's been suggested before, that the bin lorry hit Corrie and killed him, the driver panicked and put him in the bin and somehow took him to the incinerater with or without the help of others.
I'm probably 100 % wrong but until he's found, I think anything is possible.
 
If the bone fragments they are testing do turn out to be Corrie, then I definitely suspect fowl play, how can a body go through that process without being noticed ? I agree that if the reward money didn't make anybody come forward before, it's highly unlikely to now, although I completely understand from his families point of view, they are desperate for answers.
Now if foul play was going on, then my theory is , and I think it's been suggested before, that the bin lorry hit Corrie and killed him, the driver panicked and put him in the bin and somehow took him to the incinerater with or without the help of others.
I'm probably 100 % wrong but until he's found, I think anything is possible.
Yes, or the driver put him in another bin that went to incinerator but the phone had already gone into the rubbish into his own lorry. We will have to wait for the test results. JMO.
 
Yes, or the driver put him in another bin that went to incinerator but the phone had already gone into the rubbish into his own lorry. We will have to wait for the test results. JMO.

I agree, that would explain his phone following the same route as the lorry, I wonder how long it will take for the results to come back, hopefully not too long.
 
I may be misremembering (nearly a year, so I do forget what's been discussed) but did someone local report that as a test they had physically exited the HS while the cctv was pointed away?
Of course being aware of the cctv made it easier to attempt to avoid it - movement in another direction would that do it?
Sorry to drag this up, but truly this is like a 'locked room mystery' and I really can't make sense of any of it even after all this time.
 
Now if foul play was going on, then my theory is , and I think it's been suggested before, that the bin lorry hit Corrie and killed him, the driver panicked and put him in the bin and somehow took him to the incinerater with or without the help of others.
I'm probably 100 % wrong but until he's found, I think anything is possible.

Im sure it was said there was at least one person in the horseshoe when the bin lorry arrived tho, the person that the driver thought was Corrie. Both that person and the driver would have to be lying if there had been an accident.
 
If this is normal for Biffa recycling collections, why didn't their customers query the weight of collections?

Pay by weight is simple to understand and apparently all automated. Does the customer not query why they are charged for 110+ kgs (?) when their usual collection weight has regularly been 11 kgs (?).

Apologies but I am going back to the beginning here and maybe I have it all wrong but doesn't it raise basic questions knowing what we now know..


http://vwsltd.co.uk/bin-weighing-fitted-as-standard-for-biffa-commercial/

Biffa has standardised the ENVIROWEIGH bin weighing system from Vehicle Weighing Solutions Ltd (VWS) on its waste and recycling fleet, which is spread throughout 63 locations in the UK.

Ian Nash, Project Manager, Biffa said: “We use the system to weigh waste and mixed recycling as well as specific streams such as food, glass and paper, and feed the information back to our customers for their environmental reporting.”

The ENVIROWEIGH bin weighing system is a weights and measures approved system, which means it can be used for Pay By Weight services, and offers a high degree of accuracy within 0.5% or better
 
If this is normal for Biffa recycling collections, why didn't their customers query the weight of collections?

Pay by weight is simple to understand and apparently all automated. Does the customer not query why they are charged for 110+ kgs (?) when their usual collection weight has regularly been 11 kgs (?).

Apologies but I am going back to the beginning here and maybe I have it all wrong but doesn't it raise basic questions knowing what we now know..


http://vwsltd.co.uk/bin-weighing-fitted-as-standard-for-biffa-commercial/

Biffa has standardised the ENVIROWEIGH bin weighing system from Vehicle Weighing Solutions Ltd (VWS) on its waste and recycling fleet, which is spread throughout 63 locations in the UK.

Ian Nash, Project Manager, Biffa said: “We use the system to weigh waste and mixed recycling as well as specific streams such as food, glass and paper, and feed the information back to our customers for their environmental reporting.”

The ENVIROWEIGH bin weighing system is a weights and measures approved system, which means it can be used for Pay By Weight services, and offers a high degree of accuracy within 0.5% or better

Whilst the article says that "it can be used for Pay By Weight", maybe you should ask yourself the question "Was it used for Pay by Weight in this instance?"

The answer to that one is, No!

In this instance the customer was Paying by Collection. The weight is only collected to "
feed the information back to our customers for their environmental reporting.", if indeed they are interested!!!


 
Whilst the article says that "it can be used for Pay By Weight", maybe you should ask yourself the question "Was it used for Pay by Weight in this instance?"

The answer to that one is, No!

In this instance the customer was Paying by Collection. The weight is only collected to "
feed the information back to our customers for their environmental reporting.", if indeed they are interested!!!



Is there a link from LE, MSM, waste company or customer that actually confirms that the customer ( Greggs?) was actually paying by collection rather than weight?
 
I may be misremembering (nearly a year, so I do forget what's been discussed) but did someone local report that as a test they had physically exited the HS while the cctv was pointed away?
Of course being aware of the cctv made it easier to attempt to avoid it - movement in another direction would that do it?
Sorry to drag this up, but truly this is like a 'locked room mystery' and I really can't make sense of any of it even after all this time.
Jessie, I believe that camera is on a rotation of 5 angles IIRC so it could miss someone leaving the H/S but the other cameras should catch it. However, the only camera we have seen no footage from is the SB cam at the R/O Cornhill Shopping Centre, which leaves room for doubt. The other area of doubt is whether there was access to a building in the horseshoe and possible egress at a different time and via an alternate exit other than Brentgovel or SB. AJMO.
 
There is a big spurious gap in the info/truth about the bin-lorry/landfill thing IMO. Take your pick at which part really, but I'm here to mention something about the actual landfill part.

And that is that, the bin-lorry that picked up the bin, would not have directly dumped it's load onto the landfill site.

Landfill site's all use specialist vehicles for the job. You can Google map any LF site in the UK, including Milton, and you will see only a specific type of vehicle enters the actual landfil site and does the dumping. You won't see any standard bin-lorries on the landfill part of the site itself.

02670039.jpg


Therefore, there is a transfer process at some point between the collection (of the bin) and the waste being dumped onto the actual ground (landfill). It would go bin lorry with waste content to landfill site -> waste content transfer into container/specialist landfill vehicle -> dumping.

As you see in the picture above, that specialist vehicle seems to utilize "capsules", that it can pick up, change at whim etc. There's also the flatbed tipper trucks, which seem to be used at Milton perhaps more than the one in the image above.

I worked on a landfill site for about 4 months. I only ever saw the vehicles pictured above and bulldozer's on the actual landfill part of a landfill site. I admit I don't recall very well how the transfer from standard bin lorry to the larger vehicles occurred. But I do remember there being strict protocols about who and what goes past a certain point, onto the landfill site. I don't think it included street bin lorries. And it makes sense. Biffa, Grundon, whomever, don't want their expensive street lorries careening down the side of a landfill.

So. The first major misconception is that a standard bin lorry (the one that entered the horse shoe) later tipped its load directly onto a landfill site. I don't buy it... At the very best, the Biffa lorry dumped its waste into a container near the front of the landfill site (again, you can see many containers at the front of the site on Google maps). A second vehicle like the one above or a flatbed specialist truck would've taken it out onto the site.

Is this significant? Possibly not. But it raises the question of the vagueness of certain assertions, yet again.

But the second misconception, which is more of a personal grievance from my time and observations working on a landfill, perhaps is. And that is that dumping onto a landfill site is not a "willy nilly" event. You don't drive in and dump it where you want, the workers do not do that. They will likely have been using a particular zone or quadrant of the landfill on the date in question.

They should be able to look at their log and narrow down the quadrant that was being dropped into on Corrie's dates. I don't know how refined (metres squared etc) you can get with that, but I'm almost certain logged quadrants exist in some form on landfill sites. It's how they allow for others areas of the site to regenerate.

This I feel is significant, because when they say "searching landfill" it gives the impression that the whole site needs to be searched, when in fact that probably isn't the case at all. Much like the Biffa logging its (incorrect) weight, someone at landfill will have had to log, in some manner, even the most basic, their duty of taking the transferred waste from container to the dumping spot, even if that is just "Quadrant: Answer. Date: Answer. Time: Answer."

And with that in mind he probably should've been found by now, and if not, probably never will be. But I believe that would be because he isn't there, not because there is "so much waste". IF they do come back with this sort of statement, that he couldn't be found and they feel he is there, but perhaps under "too much waste" to reasonably search, you know it's probably BS. Because they could probably hone in on a particular zone and dig 100 feet if they needed to.

EDIT. Whilst the bin lorry may have turned up and put waste in a container on a Sunday (can't quite remember the actual day it was supposed to arrive, I think it's Sunday though), that container wouldn't have been moved on the Sunday, surely. Whilst that container may have had several loads put into it (if various bin-lorries did a similar thing), again it would possibly be logged, it could be searched itself for traces. And it allows for an extra period of time where an early/initial discovery could have perhaps been made (though I acknowledge it's reasonable that such a discovery could also have been very unlikely). That said, the "log" we've heard about could very well be that, the weight test conducted on the landfill site when bin-lorry transferred its waste.

And there's one final thing, and that is that after every single other co-incidence that occurred from the minute Corrie walked into the horseshoe up until this point, like no witnesses, no cctv, no phone discovery, the final blow would be that the guy driving the bulldozer who basically does the "flattening out" of dumped waste didn't get a hint at anything. I won't describe it in detail, but I'm sure you can understand how, you might expect him to notice something. He spends all day every day seeing, smelling, pushing standard waste around, his trained eyes, nose, ears... will spot an arm, a leg... But no-one ever did. The Biffa never got a hint of a person. The period Corrie would've been in transfer, again not spotted. The point of waste dumping and the bulldozer flattening, not a hint. These things still arguably point to it never occurring at all.

One last thing. The found a back of a phone once, in January 2017. The same month where they said they wouldn't search the landfill (oh how things changed eh!). In the article it says the police effectively dismissed the back of the phone and wouldn't do any further testing on it (though it was never so clear what tests were run). But again, it makes you wonder -- even the most junior of SOCO staff could do a fingerprint swab of that phone case, to at least confirm it perhaps was or wasn't his. But they never did.... it boggles the mind?
Just bumping this post that has a lot of
Interesting points that could be more relevant at this point of the search IMO.
 
Im sure it was said there was at least one person in the horseshoe when the bin lorry arrived tho, the person that the driver thought was Corrie. Both that person and the driver would have to be lying if there had been an accident.

Oh I see, I just thought it was only Corrie in the HS when the lorry arrived.
If I'm correct, the lorry arrived not too long after Corrie did , so if he did climb into the bin, it must have been virtually as soon as he entered the HS for nobody to have noticed him.
This case is so frustrating, it's as if he just vanished into thin air.
 
Just bumping this post that has a lot of
Interesting points that could be more relevant at this point of the search IMO.

It says in that post that the rubbish gets transferred to a flat bed truck before it's dumped in the LF, I do wonder how thoroughly they are supposed to check it, I know there must be tons of it at a time. Maybe it wasn't checked at all.
 
Jessie, I believe that camera is on a rotation of 5 angles IIRC so it could miss someone leaving the H/S but the other cameras should catch it. However, the only camera we have seen no footage from is the SB cam at the R/O Cornhill Shopping Centre, which leaves room for doubt. The other area of doubt is whether there was access to a building in the horseshoe and possible egress at a different time and via an alternate exit other than Brentgovel or SB. AJMO.

It was stated there was no forensic evidence found to show C was in any building in the HS or on the opposite side of the road.

Also, SP checked the timings of alarms on buildings and none had been turned off... and here I can't remember the rest of the wording, but I think it was between certain hours and implied there was no 'unexpected' access to buildings.

And here's where someone can go down the rabbit hole of C hiding until workers were in the buildings and him entering when alarms switched off for work and leaving back into the HS later or through the front and neither can I remember where the cctv is on the Market Square to have possibly captured him coming out of front doors.

Aaaand relax.....
 
It was stated there was no forensic evidence found to show C was in any building in the HS or on the opposite side of the road.

Also, SP checked the timings of alarms on buildings and none had been turned off... and here I can't remember the rest of the wording, but I think it was between certain hours and implied there was no 'unexpected' access to buildings.

And here's where someone can go down the rabbit hole of C hiding until workers were in the buildings and him entering when alarms switched off for work and leaving back into the HS later or through the front and neither can I remember where the cctv is on the Market Square to have possibly captured him coming out of front doors.

Aaaand relax.....
Yes and also no apparent forensic traces in the HS itself, or bins or lorries yet LE seem convinced he went in the bin to LF. So no forensics does not mean he was not there it seems. I.e absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as they say. We have the evidence entering the HS (the cctv) but zero evidence he left. That does not mean he never left however. I believe he walked out up SB and got a lift not caught on any cctv. It seems to be the only explanation if he is not found in LF or incinerator waste. Nothing has been mentioned about cardboard bales and whether that takes place at GB or RL. All confusing and JMO where appropriate.
 
Oh I see, I just thought it was only Corrie in the HS when the lorry arrived.
If I'm correct, the lorry arrived not too long after Corrie did , so if he did climb into the bin, it must have been virtually as soon as he entered the HS for nobody to have noticed him.
This case is so frustrating, it's as if he just vanished into thin air.
The bin lorry did not enter till around 50 minutes after C did. Driver apparently thought he saw C but it was not him, it was said. We have never been told who that was who was seen apparently on a mobile phone.
 
Just bumping this post that has a lot of
Interesting points that could be more relevant at this point of the search IMO.

The bin lorry did not enter till around 50 minutes after C did. Driver apparently thought he saw C but it was not him, it was said. We have never been told who that was who was seen apparently on a mobile phone.

Oh ok, it's been so long since he went missing, I'm forgetting the details now, that is a big time frame for something to have happened to him, by accident or on purpose. It would have gave him plenty of time to climb into a bin too, but who knows. I think I've given up guessing now.
 
It was stated there was no forensic evidence found to show C was in any building in the HS or on the opposite side of the road.

Also, SP checked the timings of alarms on buildings and none had been turned off... and here I can't remember the rest of the wording, but I think it was between certain hours and implied there was no 'unexpected' access to buildings.

And here's where someone can go down the rabbit hole of C hiding until workers were in the buildings and him entering when alarms switched off for work and leaving back into the HS later or through the front and neither can I remember where the cctv is on the Market Square to have possibly captured him coming out of front doors.

Aaaand relax.....

The absence of forensic evidence is not evidence of absence from those locations. Too much being placed on forensics (or lack of).

What happened to the forensics expect that was in this thread some weeks/months ago? Very insightful on the myth of DNA etc.
 
Crikey - and Wow !! That is an astonishing (and generous) offer indeed.

Bit rushed now, but anyone recall how much the landfill search costs day-by-day? Has it been quoted anywhere at some point?


Sorry for quoting my own post, but think I found the answer:

Aware of this figure mentioned previously but wasn't clear that the vast majority of this was the cost of searching LF. Not sure how this breaks down over 5 months.



https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/missing-persons/corrie-mckeague

It is estimated the investigation has cost over £1.2million to date, the vast majority of this relating to the cost of searching the site.

The Police & Crime Commissioner for Suffolk understood the necessity to do this work and provided the funds for this search.
 
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