Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.29.17 - Day 24

[iPhoneGuy]

I really thought DM would try to present more of a defence, It will be interesting to see what will come of his closing arguments. That Judge has given him a lot in the way of leeway and prep time! He has a long time to prepare that closing! I am also interested in seeing what Dungey is going to say! Any guesses on what you think Dungey will come out with??!!

BBM

I think the judge needs that time to prepare his charge as well, as he said, "...there is a lot of evidence..."

The judge's charge is lengthy and detailed, the TB one was a book, that was read over 2-3 days to the Jury...


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[redheart]

So, looking up this link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-1.3631268 reminded me that there are things from the Bosma trial that couldn't be reported when the jury was sequestered, that can be reported once this jury is out.

Usually after a jury is sequestered, reporters are allowed to write about almost everything that was said in court while jurors are out of the room.

But in the Bosma case, many things that were discussed still can't be reported. Goodman has ordered an extended publication ban on more than a dozen other areas until the completion of the Babcock trial, which is set to begin in early 2017.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Question, when the Judge Charges the Jury in this case, is an audience allowed to be present in the courtroom or just the jury? Are the reporters allowed to report all of that? It seems that if he has to go ever every piece of evidence maybe we would be able to see/hear some of which was not reported, or not reported well.....

The audience is allowed to be present (They were in the Bosma trial) and IIRC the doors are locked until the judge is finished.

 

[andreww]

So by calling evidence, DM has effectively allowed the Crown the final word during the closing statements. Good work DM.

MOO

People are a little hard on this guy's lawyering skills, but this was an unwindable case. If he stayed quite like Dungey, people would have ripped on him. This ain't TV and no amount of lawyering skill was going to get him off, he basically confessed in those letters for crying out loud. But from all those that watched in person, all I heard was that he did a pretty admirable job and that most were impressed.

I said it before, its a travesty this guy didn't decide to do something positive with his life because if he'd put his mind to it, he could have been quite successful.

 

[MorningStar22]

I suspect more MS-related evidence was argued out of the trial. If the Crown has him for M1 for obtaining the guns, why not also for WM then? I think there is something more.

 

[mimimic]

DM's defence was the pits.... totally fell flat.
MS not calling evidence is not a surprise.
Can't wait to hearing closing arguments.

BBM ;D I can't wait for the crown's closing. The rest will be BS!

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Sequestered? Jury wasn't sequestered for the TB trial and I was very surprised. They were allowed to go home every night which I did not agree with. I wonder why this is different?

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I believe the jury was sequestered during deliberations for the TB trial. It is standard practice in Canada to not sequester the jury during the actual trial, then after the judge hands the jury instructions they are sequestered until a verdict is reached. Sequestering the jury makes it harder for jurors to have their minds swayed by outside information. It reduces pressure on jurors to vote a certain way, and it helps prevent harassment, threats, or actual violence from non-jurors who want to influence the outcome of the case.

 

[Busymom4]

So, looking up this link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-1.3631268 reminded me that there are things from the Bosma trial that couldn't be reported when the jury was sequestered, that can be reported once this jury is out.

I wonder if that publication ban will be extended to post WM trial?

 

[andreww]

I suspect more MS-related evidence was argued out of the trial. If the Crown has him for M1 for obtaining the guns, why not also for WM then? I think there is something more.

I didn't think Smich was ever going to put up a defence. The crown simply hasn't proven the case against him and I'm pretty sure he's going to walk on this one.

 

[banting]

I didn't think Smich was ever going to put up a defence. The crown simply hasn't proven the case against him and I'm pretty sure he's going to walk on this one.

If MS is found not guilty and the Crown appeal (assuming they can) would a retrial have to involve DM too? If not maybe more evidence could be brought that may not be admissible due to the WM case.

 

[dar107]

Have we heard one single piece of evidence that MS ever even met Laura? Not that I can recall, and if not I am sure Dungey will include this in closing, "ladies and gentlemen, my client did not even know Laura Babcock, why on earth would he want to kill her??" , or something to that effect. The motive all falls back to DM. I am a little concerned on the jurors all ending up agreeing on MS for M1. I understand the totality of the evidence put together tells a bigger picture, but some things can be explained "away" or doubt created in regards to them by Dungey. ie: the text exchange on the red bag where DM says it yours now to MS.

DM is a no brainer for me, Guilty as charged. And knowing more then the jury is supposed to know, or take into account (Tim) I for sure believe MS was involved but I do not know if he was present or part of planning for the specific murder of Laura. I hope the judge can/will leave an option for other verdicts besides the M1 for MS.

I cannot feel that justice is served if only DM gets a guilty verdict here, it will be good but feel not complete. MS knew for sure IMO what was being incinerated, definite accessory and definite indignity to Laura.

 

[deugirtni]

Sequestered? Jury wasn't sequestered for the TB trial and I was very surprised. They were allowed to go home every night which I did not agree with. I wonder why this is different?

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June 13, 2016 tweets when jury was released for deliberations (sorry, read bottom to top):

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes
The jury is now leaving the courtroom to begin their deliberations. #Bosma

Colin Butler ?@ColinButlerCBC
Judge has finished his instructions to the jury. They are being sequestered for deliberations as of now. #TImBosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes
They swear to keep the jury in a private and convenient space during deliberations. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ?@susanclairmont
These constables literally stay watch outside the jurors' hotel rooms at night and escort them to meals and the courthouse.

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC
They swear to keep the jury private and not let people speak to them. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ?@AlexpiersonAMP
Jury is now being prepared for deliberations. Constables sworn in. They w protect jury and privacy. @AM900CHML

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes
The court constable a are being brought forward to be sworn. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ?@susanclairmont
Now the court constables will be sworn in to protect and watch over jury while it deliberates. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ?@HefCHCHNews
Instructions complete. Court constables being sworn now. Jury about to be sequestered. #Bosma

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC
Court constables now being sworn. #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[winter2017]

It would be a horrible thought if DM was ever released from prison because there is no hope for him. It will not be a horrific thought if MS someday gets out of prison, I think there is a very small glimmer of hope he has remorse. I am shocked that he will not provide a defense.
I guess his lawyer thinks there is not enough to convict him of M1. I am unsure.
A chance he will be convicted of something else, not M1. That means there is a possibility someday he will be released.
Justice will be served if DM gets M1. Then he also could have another one when next trial, and maybe get dangerous offender and die in prison and that definitely will be justice.
I hope that the Bosma family and Babcock family will get any money this has. Good riddance Dellen Millard, the world is better off without you in it.

 

[Shaz14]

I am glad that Laura's parents will not have to listen to DM testify for himself, having to listen to his closing argument will be bad enough! Might have made for good drama and discussion, but this is really about Justice for Laura. By Friday of next week the jury will be deliberating & I am praying they serve up that justice to the accused. I am glad this part of the road is just about over for her parents, and glad they will be able to remember Laura this Christmas with some closure, and a guilty verdict for the death of their beautiful daughter. And Laura can celebrate with the angels up in Heaven. Blessing to them and you all, and thanks to everyone here for the helping with the tweets, the great discussions and the fact we are all (or 97%) here for the same reason....

97% :giggle:

ETA: Sorry, I couldn't resist giggling about the 97% after that witness, GA, last night. I totally agree dar107. I am glad that the family will have closure soon. I think about LB's parents all the time, I can tell that she grew up in a loving home. It is always a tough time when our kids grow up and become adults. Sometimes the transition doesn't go well, especially when mental illness is involved. I really hope her parents don't blame themselves for this in any way. DM is a horrible person who ruined so many lives in addition to the lives he took.

 

[Shaz14]

2 questions regarding the WM trial....

1) Is Smich a defendant in that trial as well? Or just DM?
2) Will DM have a lawyer? I'm getting mixed messages on that one.

 

[Stratocaster]

Mic drop moments for me in this trial:

- SL squeezing Millard like a zit when they had their coffee meeting about the whereabout of LB
- AM screenshot of the LB missing notification sent via text to Millard
- the LB hidden nametag pulled from the red duffle bag in the MS house search
- the letters, the letters, the letters


.....this is for you Smitch:

"they tattooed M1 on our foreheads for everybody to see, shoved us in a box annn threw away the k k k keyyyy"

 

[andreww]

Have we heard one single piece of evidence that MS ever even met Laura? Not that I can recall, and if not I am sure Dungey will include this in closing, "ladies and gentlemen, my client did not even know Laura Babcock, why on earth would he want to kill her??" , or something to that effect. The motive all falls back to DM. I am a little concerned on the jurors all ending up agreeing on MS for M1. I understand the totality of the evidence put together tells a bigger picture, but some things can be explained "away" or doubt created in regards to them by Dungey. ie: the text exchange on the red bag where DM says it yours now to MS.

DM is a no brainer for me, Guilty as charged. And knowing more then the jury is supposed to know, or take into account (Tim) I for sure believe MS was involved but I do not know if he was present or part of planning for the specific murder of Laura. I hope the judge can/will leave an option for other verdicts besides the M1 for MS.

I cannot feel that justice is served if only DM gets a guilty verdict here, it will be good but feel not complete. MS knew for sure IMO what was being incinerated, definite accessory and definite indignity to Laura.

Obviously he was part of the disposal, but that is not what he is being charged of. Bottom line, the crown needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Smich knew about the murder of LB before it took place and I don't think they have done that. Sure the incinerator was purchased for nefarious purposes but nobody can say for sure that it was purchased specifically for LB. All Smich's comments about bones and such occurred after the murder, so at that point he certainly knew its purpose, but again that only relates to the disposal.

Would the crown try him again? Certainly not. I think the only reason the charged him this time is because they were trying them together and there were minimal costs involved, but I think they knew all along that getting a conviction was a long shot.

In his closing I don't think Dungey will dwell on what little evidence there is or try to fabricate a story. He will simply make it very clear to the jury that the case has not been proven.

 

[MsSherlock]

BBM ;D I can't wait for the crown's closing. The rest will be BS!

Thanks to DM wanting to put forward a defence, the Crown gets to go last in addressing the Jury. IMO, that's not the best position to be in for the accused and TD by default and no fault of his own gets to share the short straw with DM. I personally don't think DM brought forward a single witness that added any merit to his defence- he should have passed on the witnesses and just gone straight to having the last word to the Jury.

Jill Cameron is a very talented lawyer- I think her closing remarks will etch in the Jury's minds that DM & MS worked together towards LB's murder. IMO, if MS does get M1 it could very well be because DM's urge to call a few witnesses tossed them out of the prime "last word" position. MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

I suspect more MS-related evidence was argued out of the trial. If the Crown has him for M1 for obtaining the guns, why not also for WM then? I think there is something more.

MS provided an intro for DM and MWJ months earlier in an entirely different context. Every single dealing since then with regard to guns was between the DM and MWJ directly. Beyond that, DM himself didn't even solicit the gun presented as evidence in this trial, he essentially got cold called out of the blue by MWJ trying to shop a gun. Finally, we don't even know if that gun or any other gun was connected to Laura's death. Given all that, it repeatedly surprises me that people think it's reasonable to make MS responsible in the law for the alleged murder weapon.

 

[RandomName479]

If MS is found not guilty and the Crown appeal (assuming they can) would a retrial have to involve DM too? If not maybe more evidence could be brought that may not be admissible due to the WM case.

Can the crown appeal a not guilty verdict? That seems like double jeopardy to me (I know that’s an American thing....but think we have something like it?)